Wednesday, 6th October, 2021

Wednesday, 6^th October, 2021

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

GOVERNMENT POSITION AND STRATEGY FOR MINING SECTOR

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to address the House and the nation at large on the position and strategy for the mining sector under the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government of President Hakainde Hichilema.

Madam Speaker, mining is Zambia’s dominant industry and mainstay of the economy. It accounts for 10 per cent of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP), over 70 per cent of foreign exchange earnings, 30 per cent of Government revenue and 8 per cent of formal employment. Therefore, the role of this sector, as one of the key drivers to foster economic development, cannot be overemphasised. The New Dawn Government wants to bring sanity to the mining sector. You will, therefore, see changes that promote greater transparency because we believe that the mining sector if properly harnessed, can resolve problems in other sectors and act as a catalyst to growing the economy.

Madam Speaker, the confusion associated with gold where illegal mining was the order of the day will not be tolerated under the New Dawn Government. In addition, the wanton illegal mining and destruction of the environment for other base metals, industrial and energy minerals will be a thing of the past under the UPND Government. The illegalities in manganese mining, the smuggling of emeralds and the destruction of the environment by illegal miners is unacceptable. Let me sound a warning that the New Dawn Government of President Hakainde Hichilema will not allow illegality in the sector.

Madam Speaker, with the regards to the position and strategy for the mining sector, the New Dawn Government under my ministry is focusing on what I will talk about. The Government has been consulting with key stakeholders to review the mining tax policy framework in order to design and develop a fiscal tax regime for the sector that will be stable, predictable and competitive to ensure sustained investment in the sector. This will also attract both local and foreign investment in mining and ultimately, scale up mineral production in the country.

Madam Speaker, my ministry is enhancing monitoring and oversight mechanisms and technologies to reliably ascertain the volume and content of mining output for taxation purposes. In addition, the Government will capacitate officers managing the Mineral Output Statistical Evaluation System (MOSES), Mining Cadastre Administration System (MCAS) and those deployed at border posts to enhance transparency and accountability of the mineral resource. The Government has started the process of consulting stakeholders on modalities to ensure the presence of officers in areas where mining is taking place to enhance monitoring and accountability of the various minerals being exploited.

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, Zambia is endowed with abundant mineral resources that can help in the economic transformation of this country. One of the notable minerals which can accelerate the economic transformation agenda is gold. In this regard, my ministry is developing a legal framework to ensure that the mining and trading in gold benefits the people of Zambia, especially the local communities where such mining is taking place.

Madam Speaker, the UPND Government has begun the process of diversification both within the copper sub-sector through the extension of the copper value chain and from traditional copper to other minerals by promoting exploration and processing of gemstones and industrial minerals. My ministry will collaborate with other key ministries and institutions to promote value addition to critical minerals such as copper, gold and manganese. Further, the Government is promoting skills development in the processing of gemstones and industrial minerals through centres such as the Gemstone Processing and Lapidary Training Centre in Ndola. My ministry is also collaborating with co-operating partners who promote the development of industrial minerals such as the Africa-Caribbean Pacific European Union (ACP-EU) Project. Additionally, the ministry is encouraging exploration activities around the country in order to identify possible greenfield mines that can lead to increased production.

Madam Speaker, through the aforementioned initiatives, business linkages will be established with players in the mining value chain. This will be done in conjunction with the newly established Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprises to promote value addition to the minerals, especially for artisanal and small scale miners. The promotion of small scale mining is key to improving the livelihood of the local communities as it has closer links with the local economy, generates more local jobs and supports the retention of earnings within the country.

Madam Speaker, the Government is putting in place a policy and a plan to facilitate local ownership and increased participation of Zambian players in the industry. The House may wish to note that the findings of a study conducted by the Africa Development Bank (AfDB) in 2019 revealed that the mining sector procures between US$4 billion to US$5 billion annually in goods and services. However, only about 10 per cent of this originates from Zambians. Therefore, localising a significant portion of mining procurement would promote the participation of Zambians across the mining value chain.

Madam Speaker, the Government started the process of developing a national supply development policy for the mining industry to increase the local supply of goods and services to the industry. This will be achieved through the provision of technical assistance and mentorship, which includes, among others, suppliers with detailed technical specifications in order to improve the production and servicing capacity of the local suppliers.

Madam Speaker, efforts will be channelled towards working with the communities and the investors to ensure that the development agreements entered into with the Government balances the provision of incentives with the concerns of the communities such as environmental impact and labour issues. We shall also collaborate with investors to scale up the cleaning up of legacy environmental damage built up over the years through the Environmental Protection Fund (EPF) and the Zambia Mining and Environmental Remediation Improvement Project (ZMERIP).

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, with regard to the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc and Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) Plc, my ministry will revert to this august House with specific statements on each upon thorough consultations. The people of Zambia voted for change to protect and better manage national strategic assets such as the KCM and MCM, thus safeguard the livelihoods of Zambians depending on mining.

Madam Speaker, the future of copper mining remains economically viable with the emerging developments in the manufacturing industry of electric vehicles. Therefore, there is a need for the country to strategically position itself in order to benefit from the green energy transition.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I first wish to state that we support the hon. Minister’s proposal to bring legislation that will look at improving the participation of Zambians in the mining sector, especially at small scale level. That particular measure is consistent with what we have in our Patriotic Front (PF) Manifesto. I know that supporting youths in the mining sector as may be contained in the proposed legislation is just one side of the value chain. We have other bigger challenges to do with financing, and so the ministry has to be very deliberate in the way it looks at the financing aspect. What deliberate measures or affirmative action is the ministry planning to ensure that firstly, the youths who are supposed to participate in mining have sufficient financing and secondly, that they are also supported on the marketing side of things to ensure that they do not get the low side of the bargain?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, you realise that immediately we assumed office or, in fact, before we even assumed office, we had promised that we shall no longer call Zambians rascals or criminals when they are trying to survive from the dump sites, for instance. What we have done is try to legalise or regularise the operations of the dump sites. We want to be giving artisanal mining licences for dump sites, for instance, because we realise that will be an easier way for our small-scale miners to raise financing for their projects. We are also encouraging them to partner with others by way of forming co-operatives so that when they raise enough capital with their artisanal mining licences, we can then give them bigger licences.

Madam Speaker, we also encourage financing through joint ventures with those investors who are coming with an emphasis on making sure that Zambians keep participating and benefiting from these resources. As Government, we want to be deliberate in helping small scale miners market the very minerals that they are mining. In the past, most young people have been hard done by those who buy minerals from them. So, we want to make sure that they are given what is due to them from their products.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, indeed, taxation has been a very thorny issue from 2001. As a country, we seem to have failed to consistently have a taxation policy –

Dr Kalila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kalila: Madam Speaker, I am grateful for this opportunity to rise on a point of order.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is premised on Standing Order No. 207 (2)(b) which relates to contempt of this honourable House, and I will read the said Standing Order.

“In addition to instances under Section nineteen of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, the following, may constitute contempt of the House:

(b) a reflection on the character of impartiality of the Speaker in the discharge of the Speaker’s duties.”

Madam Speaker, this point of order relates to an article which appeared in the Daily Nation of 5^th October, 2021 at page 3. I will read some relevant excerpts from this article. The heading for this article is: “Stop being emotional, Nakacinda tells Speaker.”

Madam Speaker, at paragraph two, the article said:

“Mr Nakacinda said Ms Mutti’s emotional attitude towards PF members in Parliament

was worrying. He said in an interview yesterday that the Speaker was too emotional, and that her conduct was a recipe for turning the House upside down. ‘I will repeat what I posted on my Facebook page, she should quickly retire her membership from UPND to avoid herself being a subject of politics outside the House as that has the potential to generate dissent against her as a person, which will make it difficult for her to execute her duties freely and avoid degenerating the House into a partisan platform,’ Mr Nakacinda said.

Mr Nakacinda claimed that Ms Mutti misconducted herself in the manner she treated Kabushi Member of Parliament Bowman Lusambo last week. Being one of the very few senior lawyers, he said, that even qualifies to occupy the office of a judge, our expectations were extremely high in the manner with which she would discharge her duties at parliament. It has become more apparent that she lacks the impartiality that is critical for her to earn the much-needed respect and credibility from both sides of the aisle in the House.”

Madam Speaker, I will end my quotation there. Arising from this very clear rule in our Standing Orders, I would like to find out whether Mr Nakacinda, who is a member of the Central Committee of the Patriotic Front (PF) is in order to cast aspersions on you and your office, thereby calling into question your partiality and character. Secondly, I would like to find out whether he is not in contempt of this honourable House by uttering the remarks, which I have quoted from this tabloid.

Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling.

Madam Speaker: Thank you hon. Member for Lukulu East, under the circumstances, I will reserve my ruling so that the matter can be looked at and investigated. May the document that the hon. Member was reading from be laid on the Table?

Dr Kalila: Madam Speaker, I am in Thomas Williams Committee room, I will forward it to your staff here. Thank you.

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was referring to our taxation policy. Since 2001, we have been very inconsistent and as a result, it has been a cat and mouse situation between the mining sector and the Government. Nevertheless, I draw you to another important point which is the processing of copper within Zambia. Does the ministry have any immediate plans to look into this, especially in towns like Mufulira which are copper producing towns? Jobs have slowly started to decline due to the fact that the mining activities have now become more technological. There must be another way of surviving.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, you will appreciate that at the moment, there are several people that we have met as Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, who are coming with propositions on the setting up of plants to process copper. We even have those that are coming through and want to set up processing plants to start reclaiming the tailings that have been lying idle for quite a long time because of improved technology. So we are moving in that direction as a nation. You will realise that from my speech, I talked about the fact that we want value addition even on our minerals rather than exporting unfinished products.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, my concern is on gold mining. My constituency, Chama South, has a number of sites where youths from different parts of this country come to illegally mine this gold. We are told that the ministry, through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), is about to give a foreign company a licence to process this gold. Is the New Dawn Government considering empowering the youths in terms of technical capacity to ensure that this gold is not only mined and extracted, but also processed by the same youths who are mining so that value can be realised within our country.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I am not aware of any foreign entity that we are engaging as Government. If it were so, I could have mentioned. If you heard me clearly in the statement, I said that we want to empower our youths, and I want to assure the House that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development wants to establish its presence everywhere.

Madam Speaker, when I took office, I discovered one serious anomaly that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is only found in very few selected places. So, we are consulting amongst ourselves and soon we will be approaching Cabinet to set up a system whereby the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development will be everywhere where there are mining activities so that we are able to capture whatever is happening and also to curb the illegal activities that are going on. So we are on top of things in terms of making sure that our youths can benefit from the resource God has given us.

I thank you, Madam

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, this is a matter that is close to my heart because, for years, I have seen that as a country we have been taken for a ride by mine owners through transfer pricing. What happens is that private owners mine our copper, and we do not know what they export because they sell to themselves, and the price that they pay. At the end of the year, they tell us that they made a loss, which means the Ministry of Finance and National Planning does not get that tax. Since this Government has indicated that it does not want to borrow, how does it intend to make sure that for once, since Independence, this country gets what belongs to it from that copper given to us by God?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, in my presentation I mentioned the fact that we want to bring sanity to the mining sector. One of the ways that we want to bring sanity is by dealing with issues of transfer pricing. This has been notorious in the past with mining companies lying in terms of where they are getting their supplies for production. So, we want to make sure that our presence is felt in every mine. That is why we want to reorganise the way that we check how much copper is produced and how much is sold. We also want to make sure, as I mentioned in the speech, that the participation of Zambians in the mining value chain must increase. I consider it a scandal that we have US$5billion worth of business in the mining sector per year and Zambians are participating at a paltry 10 per cent. However, if we increase the participation of Zambians, which we are doing – I just visited some mines where I mentioned and declared that the intent of this Government was to make sure that most of the businesses that are being given to foreigners should revert back to Zambians so that we can actually see the benefits of participating in the mining value chain. I do agree that in the past we were being taken for a ride, but I want to assure the House, through you Madam, that we, as the New Dawn Government, we mean business. We are equal to the task and sanity is coming back to the mining sector.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I want to build my question in this fashion. I come from a constituency with a district where almost three quarters of the young people are called Jerabos, whose activities over the past years have been focused on illegal mining. Nevertheless, we are glad today to say that these youths have now been recognised as small scale miners. The survival of small scale miners is dependent on dump sites. It is an open secret that almost all the dump sites have been given away to the so called investors, arguably at very give away prices. I can cite an example in my constituency. There is a very huge tailing dump called Dump 253 or the Green Mountain which has the potential to benefit quite a massive number of young people if it was given to them in the name of empowering small scale miners.

Madam Speaker, I am delighted to hear the pronouncement from the New Dawn Government that it wants to empower small scale miners. Arising from the fact that most of these dump sites should benefit the young people by way of small scale mining, is the ministry going to consider revoking these sale agreements that could have been entered into with supposed investors who came in by example of what I have cited. Is the ministry going consider revoking these agreements so that these dump sites are given to the young people, of course, with a little bit of empowerment so that they can also now go into full scale production.

Dr Kalila: Madam Speaker, I am in Thomas Williams Committee room, I will forward it to your staff here. Thank you.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, my concern is on gold mining. My constituency, Chama South, has a number of sites where youths from different parts of this country come to illegally mine this gold. We are told that the ministry, through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), is about to give a foreign company a licence to process this gold. Is the New Dawn Government considering empowering the youths in terms of technical capacity to ensure that this gold is not only mined and extracted, but also processed by the same youths who are mining so that value can be realised within our country.

I thank you, Madam

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker, let me also add that there are many big mining companies which are going to reclaim the dumping sites instead of concentrating on proper underground mining activities or otherwise. Some mining accompanies have gone on to reclaim the said dump sites. What is the position of the New Dawn Government vis-a-vis the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development with the status quo of the dump sites? Will the ministry consider revoking the licences so that the dump sites could be given to the young people so that they can also benefit from our huge mineral wealth?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, coincidentally today, I was meeting one of our departments, the Mining Cadastre Department, and we are trying to look at issues of licencing. One of the reasons we are doing this is because the ministry has already embarked on a process to try and renegotiate certain agreements with these mining companies that are mining on dump sites. It is true that some mining companies are trying to get the dump sites which we feel should earmarked for small scale miners. So, we are trying to renegotiate.

Madam Speaker, yesterday I had a meeting with Nkana Alloy and we are trying to renegotiate that agreement so that our youths can benefit more from the dump sites which are there. The whole purpose is to try and make sure that our small scale miners can grow. As I mentioned in my statement, I have also engaged the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development to see how we can work it out to make sure that as we renegotiate with the owners of the dump sites, we are able to come up with a system which will improve the livelihoods of small scale miners.

Madam Speaker, I must hasten to say that we do not just want them to end up as being small scale miners. Our focus and our intent is for the small scale miners to begin to graduate into large scale mining owners. The intent of this Government is to make sure that Zambians participate in the running of the mines so that the wealth of the country can remain within.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Just by way of guidance. As we are asking our questions, we should curtail the opening remarks which become too long and appear to be a debate in a way. We want to accommodate as many hon. Members as possible to ask questions. So, please as we are asking questions, let us make sure we are brief and precise.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development for such an elaborate statement. My question is on mining procurement.

Madam Speaker, when we look at the supply chain of mining, Zambians are usually on the tail end because they do not tend to benefit from the huge procurements. Which policy is the New Dawn Government coming up with to ensure that our locals also effectively participate in the procurement of mining supplies?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the policy on the participation of local suppliers and contractors in the mining sector is being worked out. We want to be extensive and all inclusive. So, we will shortly be giving a direction on the way we are going to go in terms of participation of the locals. We want to be emphatic on that point because, like I said in my statement, we have been hard done by over the participation of Zambians in the mining value chain. We are working out a very robust policy and we are going to make pronouncements soon.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam, it is a known fact that at a point of exit for Glencore and Mopani Copper Mines, Zambia was subjected to a deal, which I strongly believe, is a raw deal which needs to be renegotiated. When I met the Chief Executive Officer for Mopani Copper Mines, one of the clauses which I found shocking was using the dump site in Mufulira as collateral for the loan which Glencore left the people of Zambia. Is the hon. Minister considering revising that deal so that the Black Mountain in Mufulira, Dump Site One and Dump Site Two, can be given to the residents of Kankoyo.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the deal that Glencore signed when it was exiting, to me, is a scandal.

Hon. Government: Members; Hear, hear!

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, deals cannot be signed like that. It is unacceptable to us. We are working it out, and are still renegotiating. Mopani Copper Mines is a very good mine. So, I can assure the hon. Member that issue is being worked on. I have already engaged the Chief Executive Officer for Mopani on that score and we will definitely go in that direction.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, indeed, I agree with the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development on the fact that the mining sector continues to be the mainstay our economy. In addition, I am alive to the fact that the Western Province is endowed with a lot of mineral reserves. In this regard, I want to find out from the hon. Minister if there is a possibility of this Government to facilitate the opening up of new mines in the Western Province.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, it was very clear in my speech that that is the direction we are going. I hope the hon. Member got what I said. The speech is available for him to go through again.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, I come from a constituency which borders the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). Mining activities happening in the neighbouring country have affected the livelihood of the people in the constituency in Mufulira, specifically affecting the water table resulting into boreholes running dry, and people having problems with water. I want to find out if the ministry is aware of the impact the mining activities in the neighbouring country have done on our people and what action is being taken if there is any collaboration or talks going on between our Ministry of Minerals and Mineral Development and the ministry responsible for mines in the DRC?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, mentioned that there are talks between him and His Excellency the President of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). They are discussing issues bordering the relations between the two countries in terms of the trade which is going on and the activities across the border. So, even that matter is also being tackled and I am sure a position will be given in the short term.

I thank Madam.

Ms Mwamba (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, we hear about copper, gold, manganese, and other minerals such as gemstones, but we do not hear much about cobalt. Is the hon. Minister able to tell us how many tonnes of cobalt our country is producing, and what the projected gold to be mined in our country is?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, an extensive statement on cobalt, gold and the projections on those minerals will soon be issued in Parliament.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development has alluded to the fact that the mining sector stands cardinal or significant in the development of our economy, and I agree with him. What is the Government’s position in terms of gold mining in our country, particularly at Kasenseli Gold Mine? From the time it was discovered, it has just been like scramble for Africa in those days. So, what is the Government’s position on Kasenseli Gold Mine because if it can be handled properly, it can help us solve unemployment, improve our economy and pay our national debt, and the locals in that area have not even benefited from it?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, as the New Dawn Government, we are alive to the fact that some mines in Zambia are dotted with a lot of gold and Kasenseli Gold Mine is one of them. A comprehensive statement will soon be issued in this House through a question that was asked. So, we are going to present that information to the House shortly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Madam Speaker, what is the Government’s position on the exportation of raw manganese, which is giving unnecessary competition to our local manganese smelters which have been employing our youths? How are we going to support our local manganese smelters?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, like I alluded to, the New Dawn Government places importance on supporting locals. Small scale miners are not only in copper mines or dump sites but they are involved in every aspect of mining, including manganese. So, everyone is catered for in that statement. Like I said, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is establishing its presence everywhere so that whatever support is needed, in that score, we give it as the Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simuzingili (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for indicating the policy of the new Government on mining and that the New Dawn Government will promote exploration in the mining sector as a way of diversification from copper. What is the New Dawn Government’s position on the exploration of oil in Gwembe District?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, again, as I alluded to, a statement on that will be issued in this House shortly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Siachisumo (Lufwanyama): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development if there is any measure by the new Government to compel the mining companies mining emeralds in Lufwanyama, to auction their minerals within Lufwanyama because the people of Lufwanyama have not benefitted much. All the minerals that are mined are taken out of Lufwanyama. So, if the minerals are auctioned within Lufwanyama, the people will benefit.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, like I alluded to in my statement, the policy of this Government is that every Zambian must benefit from all the minerals in Zambia, including gemstones, and we are looking at various avenues in which we can make sure that Zambians are not hard-done-by by the so-called investors. We are moving in, like I said, to make sure that the benefits that must accrue to Zambians accrue to them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, my question is in relation to what has just been said. There is a place called Musakashi in Mushindamo District close to Lufwanyama. The owner of Grizzly Mining has never ever taken up any social responsibility, but for years, he has been siphoning the best emeralds in the area. What assurance will the hon. Minister give the people of Mushindamo or Solwezi East, and in particular Musakashi, in terms of the benefits that they need to accrue from that mine because they have been neglected by Gounasse, the owner of Grizzly Mining, for a long time?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, previously, we have had situations in which mines have declared that they are carrying out the corporate social responsibility, when in actual fact not. So, we are moving in, as the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, to make sure that what they declare on the books is actually what is happening because most of them have been lying to us that they are carrying out corporate social responsibility and reporting huge figures. However, we are moving in, as the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, and that is why we want to establish our presence in almost every district where mining activities are taking place so that we can have a holistic approach to the way that we benefit from the mining companies operating in specific areas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I am worried about the sweeping responses by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development that are touching clearly on financial implications. Those statements can only come after confirmation with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Bearing the levels of inconsistencies, I want him to confirm that what he has promised the Zambian people today will come to pass despite the financial implication on the Treasury, that he has spoken to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that he is going to open offices across the country where mining activities are happening and that some contracts that have been signed with financial implications on the State are going to be reviewed and renegotiated. I want him to confirm to the Zambian people out there that whatever statement he has given today is consistent with the position of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member must underline the word ‘consult’. I said that we are still consulting and will see how we can renegotiate. We are alive to the fact that there could be certain financial implications if there are breaches. So, we do not want to do anything that will result in breaches and be a financial burden on the Treasury. As I said, we are currently consulting to make sure that we can have presence throughout the country. After the consultations, if we are actually told that we can go ahead with that, then, we are going to do it. It is something that is good, and if it is accepted, it will actually help in harnessing the resources. Right now, we are losing a lot of revenue because we are not capturing all the activities that are going on around the country in terms of mining, and that is why we are suggesting that we establish our presence all over the country. So, we will inform this House when we finish consulting on that matter. They are actually not sweeping statements, but declarations of intent.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister for coming to account when in fact there is an option of just sitting. In his statement, the hon. Minister indicated that the Government, and I assume it is the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government, is promoting skills development. I am aware that none of the hon. Ministers in the UPND Government has promulgated a single policy, but the hon. Minister said that the Government is promoting skills development. Is he confirming that all the good policies which were promulgated by his predecessor, the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, are going to be adopted as he has adopted the promotion of skills development?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I never mentioned that I am inheriting policies from the previous hon. Minister. That is not what I said.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister mentioned that the mining sector contributes about 8 per cent towards formal employment in this country. What is the ministry doing to ensure that jobs that can be done by the Zambians, such as driving terex machines and water bowsers, are not imported by some of the mining investors? In my constituency, 15 MCC Company has also resorted to the cheap way of mining, and that is open pit mining, instead of underground mining which creates many job spaces. What is the ministry doing to ensure that more jobs are created in the mining sector as the New Dawn Government promised?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, job creation is one of the promises that the New Dawn Government made to the people of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, I realise that most mining companies were left to do things on their own without considering the plight of Zambians. That is why we have had so many strikes because people are paid peanuts. People are underemployed and jobs that can be done by Zambians are given to foreigners. The New Dawn Government will ensure that sanity returns to the mines forthwith, and we are moving in, like I said. We are doing a countrywide tour of all the mines and we want to make it clear that Zambians must do the jobs that Zambians should do. People coming from outside the country should only do jobs that Zambians cannot do. So, we are alive to that fact and it has been a serious problem. I think that Zambia must now take possession of experts and use the expertise that Zambia has. We are on the negotiation table with most of the investors. However, going forward, the New Dawn Government will make sure that jobs that must be done by Zambians are done by Zambians.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I am assigning another six minutes. So, as we ask questions, please, let us be brief.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, during the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, Konkola Copper Mines and Mopani Copper Mines, just to mention but a few, complained of the high energy costs, which according to them was undermining investments in the mining industry. The President of this country delivered a speech in this august House and he indicated that his Government is going to migrate to cost reflective electricity tariffs. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development whether the mines are going to have a special electricity tariff in order to sustain investments in the mining industry.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, it will be incumbent upon the respective mining companies to negotiate deals with the suppliers of electricity and see that they enter into deals that will help sustain production in the mining sector. Of course, as the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, we will keep an eye and see how we can help in negotiating such good deals that will promote production in the mining industry.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, when presenting the ministerial statement, the hon. Minister indicated that various key stakeholders are being engaged on the various mining activities going on in the country. Could the Hon. Minister share the key stakeholders that his ministry has so far reached out to and, if possible, the key outcomes so far.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, one of the examples I can give of the stakeholders who we are consulting and also trying to rebrand are the famous Jerabos because we understand that if the mining sector is harnessed properly, many Zambians can actually benefit and move from the poverty datum line. So, we want to rebrand them. We want to stop calling Zambians criminals and reengage them. They are serious stakeholders. So, we want to reengage them because of the expertise that they have, through rebranding and making them participate normally as part of the key stakeholders. I think that is going to help in developing the small scale mining industry.

Madam Speaker, we are also trying to engage experienced mining companies like Mopani Copper Mines. We asked them to provide us with safety officers who are going to train the small scale miners so that they are skilled in terms of observing safety standards as they work in the mining industries to avoid any disasters. These are just among the many other stakeholders who we are engaging to make sure that mining benefits us as it should.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, let me start by appreciating the hon. Minister for this very important statement, and I will pick it up from his last response. Indeed, the small scale miners who were called names are just as productive as any Zambian can be and it took a lot of work to bring them back into line for them to become law abiding citizens.

Madam Speaker, there is a dump site in Wusakile Parliamentary Constituency, famously known as the Black Mountain. It was jointly owned by a private investor and the Zambian Government. There were negotiations which included an exit option for the Government, through Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines - Investments Holdings (ZCCM-IH), to get the youths to come together through co-operatives to explore the resource. Now that you are working with the Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs), what are you going to do to ensure that the negotiations that were done with the investor and the Government to ensure that –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Mabeta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, in line with Standing Order No. 58, it states:

“(2) A member shall refer to another member as he, she, his or hers and not you or yours which reference is to the presiding officer.”

Madam Speaker, having been in Parliament for more than ten years, is the hon. Member in order to continue referring to the hon. Minister as ‘you’ in his address? I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order! It appears the point of order is not clear. Can the hon. Member repeat the point of order.

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament, Mr Kampyongo, who is a very good friend of mine in order to continue referring to the hon. Minister as ‘you’ instead of addressing him through you.

Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: We are still studying the Standing Orders and we are bound to make mistakes here and there. The training is still ongoing and I request that you excuse the hon. Member for using ‘you’ in addressing the hon. Minister. The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, before I was disrupted by that maiden point of order …

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: … I was trying to find out from the hon. Minister through you as to whether he is going to pick up those discussions to ensure that the community of Wusakile and all the various stakeholders who have interest in that dump site are brought on board to explore that resource which is quite rich.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank hon. Kampyongo for that very good question. That is an issue that is close to my heart because I am a Copperbelt man. Through you, Madam Speaker, I want to assure the House that the engagements that are going on on that dump site are going to bring about a lasting solution to what people want. That is why I am saying that we want to rebrand the Zambians that are found around that area. We have already engaged the so-called ‘God Fathers’ to try and make sure that we remove the criminal tag around them. The skills that they have can benefit us not only at the dump site but even in other mining areas because as they are mining the dump site, they are learning a skill from there. So, we want to rebrand them.

Madam Speaker, we do not want to call people Jerabos and all sorts of names. We want to refer to them as small-scale miners who are contributing to the economy of this country. So, what we have done will actually be very good for all the Zambians. We have actually engaged the Small-Scale Miners Association of Zambia (SSMA) and the association for women to form co-operatives. They will actually apply to our ministry and we will consider giving them artisanal mining licences. They will also go through safety instructions. It is going to be sanity all the way to make sure that things are right through to where they are marketing their mining products. They will actually be taken care of and not exploited by the so-called investors.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CORONAVIRUS DISEASE-2019 UPDATE IN ZAMBIA

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, I thank you for granting me this opportunity to update this august House and the nation at large on the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) situation in the country.

Madam Speaker, Zambia recorded the first two cases of COVID-19 on 18^th March, 2020. Since then, the country has recorded three distinct waves of the pandemic with a cumulative number of 209,248 confirmed cases, of which, 3,652 were deaths and 205,240 recoveries as of 16^th September, 2021. The House may wish to note that all the 116 districts in the country have recorded cases.

Madam Speaker, Zambia experienced the first distinct COVID-19 wave between July and August, 2020 with the maximum weekly test positivity rate of 25.4 per cent. The second wave was characterised by higher numbers of cases and deaths with the wider geographic spread and peaked in January, 2021.

Madam Speaker, the third wave started in the fourth week of May, 2021 and has been the most aggressive, characterised by an exponential rise in positivity and unprecedented increase in a number of cases, hospitalisations and deaths reported on a daily basis. At the peak of the third wave, we were recording 200 daily admissions with 75 per cent of the hospitalised patients requiring oxygen therapy.

Madam Speaker, in addition, we lost an average of sixty patients in a day for two consecutive weeks while our intensive care units (ICUs) were always filled to capacity. An analysis of the COVID-19 trends shows that the country’s third wave has been reducing with positivity dropping from a peak of 26 per cent in a week from 20^th June to 26^th June, 2021 to 1.9 per cent during the week ending 12^th September, 2021.

Madam Speaker, a multi-sectoral national response to COVID-19 enshrined in the COVID-19 National Multi-Sectoral Contingency Preparedness and Response Plan was developed as soon as cases of COVID-19 were detected outside the People’s Republic of China. The aim was to provide for a well-coordinated multi-sectoral preparedness and timely response mechanism to prevent and mitigate the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic. The Government, through the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI) has been coordinating the technical response efforts.

Madam Speaker, to curb and avert continued transmission of COVID-19, various public health interventions and restrictions were prescribed by the Government informed by the epidemiological trends, laboratory data and experiences within the country and globally. These measures are reviewed regularly to align to the COVID-19 evolution.

Madam Speaker, regarding coordination, various policy and technical committees were put in place to coordinate the response. These include:

The Council of Ministers for Disaster Management which is chaired by Her Honour the Vice-President, Madam Nalumango, which provides overarching policy direction;
Committee of Permanent Secretaries (PSs) chaired by the Secretary to the Cabinet, Dr Miti, which provides technical support to the council of ministers;
Epidemic Preparedness, Prevention, Control and Management Committees chaired by the hon. Minister of Health and co-chaired by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development at national level. This committee includes co-operating partners, heads of national and international organisations such as the United Nations (UN) family, the Africa Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (Africa CDC), the World Bank and the United States of America agencies, among other stakeholders. This coordination structure is replicated at provincial and district levels with Provincial Ministers and District Commissioners (DCs) as chairpersons, respectively; and
incidence management system.

Madam Speaker, the incidence management system is chaired at national level by the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI) and at provincial and district levels by the provincial and district health directors. The overall coordination of the multi-sectoral COVID-19 response is led by the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). The Multi-Sectoral Contingence Preparedness and Response Plan stipulates actions and responsibilities for various stakeholders including the Government and non-governmental institutions.

Madam Speaker, various interventions based on the evolution of the pandemic experiences and best practices in other countries were put in place to prevent and mitigate the further spread of the COVID-19 in the country. These include:

the application of the Public Health Act, Cap. 295 of the Laws of Zambia and the Statutory Instruments (SI) No. 21, 22, and 62 that were issued;
active surveillance in the community, health facilities, and points of entry, case detection and contact tracing, screening of international travellers and keeping track of alerts. Furthermore, school surveillance has been enhanced to ensure timely detection and management of cases indentified in schools. A guidance document is available at all schools to support infection prevention and control as well as compliance to the prescribed preventive public health measures;
expansion and decentralisation of laboratory diagnostic capacity. The testing platforms are decentralised to support testing at provincial and selected district laboratories while private sector participation has been encouraged and has been enhanced;
establishment of a system to track variants of the SARS-CoV-2, the COVID-19 causing virus, to inform interventions referred to as genomic sequencing;
restrictions are intermittently imposed on various sectors and social activities such as religious and funeral gatherings and temporally closures of social amenities such as bars, casinos and night clubs and schools;
resource mobilisation and engagement of various stakeholders to coordinate preparedness, surveillance and response activities;
strengthening of infection prevention and control measures. These include, but not limited to safeguarding supplies including personal protective equipment (PPE) such as gloves, masks, among others and monitoring and enforcement of compliance to public health measures in public places and events; and
COVID-19 treatment and isolation facilities were identified and customised to ensure safety and adequate patient management. However, these have not been adequate and there is need to create more space countrywide for patient management;

Madam Speaker, some health facilities still need renovations to meet minimum standards for infection, prevention and control. Over 12,000 oxygen cylinders with accessories were procured to support the much needed oxygen therapy. We are, further, mobilising more oxygen cylinders with accessories, which are expected to be delivered before the end of the year;

i capacity building through training and orientation of rapid response teams across pillars is on-going to ensure responders stay current with new developments and practices;

j. risk communication and community engagement activities which include engagement with community gate-keepers such as religious , traditional, political and civic leaders. The media, including community radio stations also continue to be engaged. Further, the production and publication of information, education and communication materials in English and local languages has been undertaken and distributed countrywide. The focus has been on enhancing public awareness to promote behavioural change; and

k. COVID-19 vaccine programme which is based on the basket of approved vaccines for Zambia. Vaccines are being acquired through the following pillars:

COVID-19 Vaccines Global Access Facility (COVAX Facility) which is a global initiative by the United Nations (UN) family, Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance, and other partners;

ii. donations of vaccine doses from bilateral and multilateral partners and through diplomatic channels;

iii. the private sector contribution to the acquisition of vaccines as guided by the Ministry of Health to ensure that only vaccines that are safe, efficacious and authorised as permitted on the Zambian market.

iv. Government financing through domestic resource mobilisation and partner support. The Government has ordered 4.4 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines through the African Vaccine Acquisition Trust (AVAT), an initiative which is under the African Union (AU) and supported by the African Export-Import Bank (Afreximbank). The Government has already so far made a down payment of UD$6.6 million and subsequent payments will be made as batches of vaccines are received. Through this facility, the country has already received the first batch of vaccines consisting of a 129,600 doses, which are Johnson and Johnson.

v) On the whole, as at 15^th September, 2021, the country had received 1, 120,800 vaccines doses out of which 680,110 have been used so far. Out of the targeted 8.4 million eligible Zambians above the age of eighteen years, only 3.8 per cent are currently fully vaccinated.

Madam Speaker, we are concerned. The national COVID-19 response has been faced with number of challenges, which include the following;

the is a general laxity among members of the public in complying with the prescribed COVID-19 prevention public health measures, including the five golden rules;
low uptake of COVID-19 vaccines, driven by myths and misconceptions which need to be addressed.
limited resources, including financial, human, material (both medicines and medical commodities) among others, threatening sustainability of interventions across sectors;
importation and emergence of new SARS-CoV-2 variants; and
imminent threat of a fourth COVID-19 wave in view of the global trends, new variants, low vaccination coverage and poor adherence to public health measures.

Madam Speaker, as hon. Members of this august House, we are called upon to be ambassadors of change, starting with ourselves, by adhering to COVID-19 prevention measures. As community leaders, we should use our comparative advantage to promote positive behavioural changes in our constituencies and beyond if we are going to prevent and control COVID-19 as a country.

Madam Speaker, I wish to urge all of us to engage our communities and advocate for adherence to the stipulated public health measures, which include:

wearing masks correctly and consistently in public places;

observing constant hand hygiene;

physical distancing of not less than 1 m;

avoiding crowded places like funerals, public meetings, and the like;

reporting to health authorities when displaying COVID-19 symptoms, including fever, cough and difficulties in breathing;

encouraging members of the public to get vaccinated as vaccination provides protection against severe disease and death. I further wish to urge those among us not yet vaccinated against COVID-19 to lead by example and get vaccinated.

Madam Speaker, let me emphasises the need to mobilise adequate resources required to safeguard the health of our people. As we will soon be debating the budget allocation, it is imperative that we support the adequate allocation of resources to respond not only to COVID-19, but to other public health priorities of our country as this is what will enable us to attain social-economic development of our country.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to thank His Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema, President of the Republic of Zambia, for prioritising universal access to quality healthcare as articulated in the United Party for National Development (UPND) Manifesto. We are all aware that our country needs a healthy and productive citizenry to develop. I urge the hon. Members of this House to support this agenda.

Madam Speaker, I further wish to thank the President for appointing a COVID-19 advisor to his office as this will further strengthen our response to COVID-19. In addition, I am pleased to note that His Excellency the President has led the way in championing the vaccination against COVID-19 by graciously accepting to relaunch the vaccination campaign tomorrow, Thursday 7^th October, 2021 at the Olympic Youth Development Centre (OYDC) in Lusaka. The relaunch is intended to rejuvenate the COVID-19 vaccination campaign in order to raise awareness and to create unprecedented demand to save lives, livelihoods and the economy of our country.

Madam Speaker, may I use this opportunity to seek the support of all hon. Members of Parliament who have so far been invited to this launch, whether they are vaccinated or not, as it would be good to show the communities in their constituencies that they support the COVID-19 vaccination programme.

Madam Speaker, following the national relaunch, provinces, districts, constituencies, wards and chiefdoms will be expected to launch vaccination programmes to ensure that all eligible Zambians get vaccinated. Similarly, Government ministries, quasi-government institutions, co-operating partners, learning institutions, the private sector, civil society organisations, traditional leaders, political and religious leaders at various levels, the media and members of the public are all expected to fully participate in this vaccination drive. Our healthcare workers are also urged to arrange to take vaccines to areas closer to our people such as markets, bus stations, lending institutions and places of worship through outreach services.

Madam Speaker, I wish to reiterate that while COVID-19 restrictions have been eased, this is not the time to drop the guard. We must continue to observe the five golden rules and encourage everyone to get vaccinated. I would be failing in my duties if I did not appreciate and commend our healthcare workers and other frontline personnel who have been working tirelessly to fight COVID-19 while providing other routine essential health services, which we should not neglect as a country.

Madam Speaker, finally, I wish to take this opportunity to thank the COVID-19 multi-sectoral stakeholders who continue to put in a lot of effort towards the fight against COVID-19 while supporting the overall health system strengthening. Together, we can defeat COVID-19 whilst protecting the gains we have made in other public health priorities.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Health.

Mr Mwila: Madam Speaker, I have been informed that there is a technical problem with the cameras where I am sitting. So, you are not able to see me in the diaspora.

Madam Speaker, it is clear so far in this experience with the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) that there are benefits attached to getting the vaccine, both at individual and country level. Is the Government considering compelling or making it mandatory for public workers to take the vaccine to increase the number of vaccinations and prevent severe infections in the country?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, we will cross that bridge when we get there, depending on what will take place in December and also the reactions of the public to following the five golden rules.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister for Feira.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Feira.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, thank you for elevating me.

Laughter

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister of Health on her appointment to the new deal, or is it New Dawn Government?

Laughter

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, I am very happy with the presentation and also with the efforts that the ministry is making to curb the Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19).

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the vaccination levels are below 3 per cent. Has the Government conducted any studies? From what I have gathered, people still question the efficacy of the vaccine.

Madam Speaker, when Professor Munkonge came here to address us on COVID-19, I asked whether Zambia has a system of testing the efficacy of the vaccines or whether we just get what we are given by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and he said that the efficacy is based on the recommendations by the WHO.

Madam Speaker, I, for one, believe that these things that come from outside and we are told to believe are (inaudible). Do we have a local mechanism of testing whether these drugs are of high efficacy or whether they have side effects? In fact, some people have had adverse reactions. Could the hon. Minister clarify whether we can rely on local tests or investigations?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, first of all, we have an organisation called the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) which has the mandate to check every drug brought into the country, including medical equipment. All the medical materials that comes here, including the COVID-19 vaccines, are checked to ensure that they are safe.

Madam Speaker, what the hon. Member was saying regarding negative effects is incorrect. The only effects that have been recorded are where some people have had a short fever because of the vaccine while others do not get any side effects at all. Therefore, the facts still remain that the vaccine is safe. Nothing is 100 per cent safe because some people get a rash as a reaction even to normal panado. However, this is not to say that the vaccine is unsafe.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament are supposed to help their communities to understand and believe the truth. If we, the people who are well informed and understand what is going on, begin to speak negatively, the people will follow that. The fact still remains that if we want to prevent the spread of this disease, the best thing for us to do is to get vaccinated.

Madam Speaker, some airlines will not allow you to board a flight unless you are vaccinated. I want to start telling people that come to my house that they must be vaccinated.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, in future, some public places may restrict those that are unvaccinated, just like you cannot get into a shopping mall without a mask because people are afraid. Let us get vaccinated so that when the situation worsens in December, as expected, we would have protected ourselves.

Madam Speaker, the situation now, is that most rich and educated people have gotten vaccinated. It means they have read and seen that is the best for now. So, let us ensure we encourage our communities in rural areas to be safe and to get vaccinated.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, my question is on the vaccinations in rural areas such as Kalabo. The hon. Member for Feira has indicated that there is still disbelief on the efficacy of this vaccine. What effort has the Government put in place to ensure that people in villages understand that the vaccination is very important? I agree that the hon. Members should be the drivers of this campaign. Let me attest that I was vaccinated on 3^rd September, 2021. Therefore, I would like to tell the people of Kalabo that the vaccine is real.

Madam Speaker, my question is on the sensitisation and awareness so that the people in the villages really came to believe and understand the vaccinations.

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kalabo Central for having been vaccinated and calling out the communities in Kalabo to follow his steps. This is a very good step and in fact, that is what all of us as hon. Members of Parliament should be doing.

Madam Speaker, as Member of Parliament for Chongwe, I want to inform the people in my constituency that the President is relaunching the vaccination programme tomorrow and I shall also be taking the Johnson and Johnson vaccine tomorrow. I would also like to call upon all the people of Chongwe to go to the nearest health centre to get vaccinated because most of the health centres countrywide have the vaccine.

Madam Speaker, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has decided to be the one to officiate so that the doubting thomases understand that this vaccine is safe and they must take it. The President and his whole family have already been vaccinated. All those are efforts to show the people that if we can take it, then everyone can take it. There is nothing unsafe about the vaccines.

Madam Speaker, when the President officiates and relaunches this exercise tomorrow, all hon. Member of Parliament, working with the district health office in their respective districts will be facilitated to ensure that they organise and mobilise their communities to go and take the vaccine. Beyond Members of Parliament, we are calling upon all the ward councillors countrywide to again, working with the district health department, organise the vaccinations for their wards. Our traditional leaders will also be facilitated by the district health departments to ensure that at that level, the traditional leaders also officiate at the vaccination relaunches. Beyond our traditional leaders who are our chiefs, we will also be working with the headmen in their communities and villages.

Madam Speaker, our role as a ministry is to facilitate from a technical point of view. The role of the community leaders, the elected leaders, traditional leaders and the church leaders is to sensitise the community. We want the church to participate in this programme and to that effect, we will be engaging the church to not only announce, but to also encourage and participate in vaccinations.

So, this is how we are hoping to undertake this programme. We are also working with the private sector. I am very happy, and I want to thank Madam Speaker because she has also shown committment by ensuring that all hon. Members of Parliament and her staff get vaccinated. So, we are expanding to all the other sectors of our society to ensure that all Zambians are vaccinated.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, the President will be relaunching the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) vaccination tomorrow and all the stakeholders that you have mentioned, who include church leaders, traditional leaders, hon. Members of Parliament and councillors are taking leadership. To me, that shows that COVID-19 is actually becoming very serious, especially that His Excellency the President will be involved, at that level, to relaunch the vaccination.

Madam Speaker, what has necessitated the relaxation of the COVID-19 measures that the Government put in place, especially that we are anticipating another wave in just a month or two? If I am not mistaken, the anticipated wave will be more serious as compared to the waves that we have experienced so far. What has necessitated the Government, through your ministry, to relax the COVID-19 measures and yet the President will be relaunching the vaccination programme?

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, it is true that we have, as a ministry announced some form of easing of the restrictions that were imposed on various institutions and the public in general. This is because, if you followed my statement, you will note that I indicated that at the beginning of the third wave, the positivity rate was at about 25 to 26 per cent. Currently, as of last week or more than a week, the positivity rate has consistently been at 2 per cent and now, it is at 1.6 per cent. This means that the situation has improved. Further, we are also taking into account the economic factors. You must also understand that COVID-19 has had a negative impact on the economy of this country. So, it is a question of which way you want to die, whether from COVID-19 or poverty. Therefore, we have to give people a breather, especially that we are expecting things to be bad from December. The idea is that we are monitoring the situation on a daily basis. If you have noticed, according to the internationally agreed norm, ministries of health are supposed to give an update every day to the nation, the President and to the African Union (AU) which is working with us in this regard. So, you will note that we have an update every day so that in the event that we find ourselves in a situation that causes panic, we will simply say stop this and that now and close the bars, and even the public will be able to appreciate our decision.

Madam Speaker, there was no point in us having unemployed people and causing a situation which is negative from an economic point of view. We took a decision, not as a ministry, but in consultation with all other stakeholders under the chairpersonship of Her Honour the Vice-President who is in charge of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). Therefore, through consultations with the stakeholders, a decision was made and announced by the Minister of Health.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I am really concerned with the low compliance level of less than 4 per cent of our population being vaccinated. This is not actually good for our nation. Nonetheless, one of the ways we can help people to have confidence in the vaccines that we are receiving is to have an institution to certify that these products are safe, just like we had a drug and food agency which used to do that in the past. For instance, on this bottle of water (holding up a bottle of water), we have the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS) tag to indicate that this is actually safe for human consumption.

Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister give assurance to the nation that the ministry is able to strengthen the national laboratories to even come up with measures to indicate that the vaccines that we are receiving are actually safe? That way, the people will be able to comply because they will know that the contents of the drug are safe for the human body. Maybe the hon. Minister can give us that assurance as a nation.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, ZAMRA does certify that a particular product or drug that has been imported is safe. Once it is certified as such is when, as a ministry through the former Medical Stores Limited (MSL), we are mandated to buy, store and distribute drugs after we collect them from the airport.

Madam Speaker, I think it is also important to note that these drugs or vaccines are coming from countries with institutions that do the certification. For instance, I was talking about the body which is under the AU that is actually not only giving Zambia vaccines, but all the African countries. So this is not one of those vaccines you go and buy from one supplier as an individual country. These are drugs that are being procured using international standards of procurement. So even before they are procured in those countries which are responsible at the AU, they have also been tested and verified to be safe for human consumption.

So please, let us be rest assured that these vaccines are very safe and that is why the President has taken it upon himself to tell or show the public that this is a responsible Government. I am sure our people can trust the UPND Government under the able leadership of the President. So please, help us to convince, inform, and make our people aware. It is for their own good and safety. Let us ensure that as hon. Members of Parliament, we in fact bring them ourselves or take them to the various health centres for vaccination.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker, I commend the noble efforts of both the hon. Minister and His Excellency the President in rallying citizens to vaccinate in droves. Our vaccination levels are extremely and pathetically low at 3.8 per cent of the population. I got vaccinated somewhere in April or May this year, which is maybe five or six months ago and I am still alive. So hon. Members may draw lessons from me and turn up in numbers for these vaccinations, especially those who are expressing misgivings.

Madam Speaker, as a country, I want to find out the minimum or targeted percentage we want to push for in our vaccination levels from 3.8 per cent. What level do we want to push for and by which date, so that we then can draw comfort that the majority of our citizens will at least be vaccinated by that time? At what percentage and by when do we hope to push above this 3.8 per cent?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that support and I say, well done. As I indicated in the statement, we have targeted 8.4 million eligible Zambians above the age of eighteen years. I did state that out of this number, only 3.8 per cent are currently fully vaccinated so far. Indeed, as he has ably said, this is really too low for the whole country, especially when you compare with some of our neighbours. Just across the Zambezi River in Zimbabwe, I am told our friends are going towards 20 per cent so far and we are still at 3.8 per cent.

Madam Speaker, according to what was regionally agreed upon under the AU, Zambia signed up or agreed to say that of these 8.4 million eligible Zambians, by 30^th September, 2021, at least we should have reached 10 per cent of those that should have been fully vaccinated. So 30^th September, 2021, was six days ago and we are just at 3.8 per cent.

Madam Speaker, you can, therefore, see that from the time the vaccination started, the response has been negative or rather very low. This is why as the New Dawn Administration, we have resolved that we must not only go out there on the ground and just get the people to believe in this vaccination programme, but also to ensure that we do not politicise it.

Madam Speaker, this is why you will note that all the political parties that are available and known have all been officially invited, including the main opposition party, the Patriotic Front (PF). We have invited everybody and we are hoping that tomorrow all political parties can participate by encouraging their members to come, so that we unite as a country. This is one issue where we are hoping and praying that we will just unite as Zambians and get our people to be vaccinated, so that we do not lose lives.

Madam Speaker, as earlier said, during the third wave, many people died. Like I said, over sixty people were dying every day during the months of May, June, and July, and most Zambians know they lost their dear ones. So this time, let us just unite and get our people together. Let us give the right messages and co-operate so that we can all save our people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Health for this wonderful statement. The hon. Minister has talked about Zambia being part of the many international protocols for the vaccination programme. I have recently experienced challenges in as far as obtaining visas for international travel is concerned due to lack of a computer generated vaccination barcode from Zambia. This is because here we are giving batch numbers of the drug as opposed to a computer generated barcode.

Madam Speaker, is there any likelihood that the ministry could ensure that computer generated vaccination barcodes are given to everybody who is vaccinated like me? I was vaccinated and I also encourage the people of Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency to turn up in numbers as we roll out the programme out there. I would also like to hear whether this will be done to ensure that international travel by Zambians who are obtaining visas outside is also catered for.

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, currently a certificate gets issued and I hear what the hon. Member is advocating for. Hopefully that will be considered.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Just by way of information in relation to hon. Members of Parliament and members of staff that have been vaccinated through the National Assembly Clinic; hon. Members of Parliament are 40 while members of staff are 247. So, we still need to do more.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, the people of Chifubu are asking why the Government says something, but does something else. The hon. Minister is saying that the people must be vaccinated, but how can they be vaccinated when hon. Members in Parliament, who have been vaccinated from different places, including Parliament, are still observing social distance? If you are vaccinated and you have confidence in the vaccine, why are we still seeing a few people in the House? Hon. Members are debating from committee rooms and elsewhere. What confidence are the people going to have if we do not have the confidence in the same vaccine? Then secondly –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, Order!

One question per hon. Member, please.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, we want to find out if all hon. Members of Parliament are all vaccinated. In most places where the vaccination programme has been done, like in the western world, we see stadia in full capacity. If hon. Members of Parliament here are all vaccinated and have records, why have you not put them in the House so that they serve as an example to say that you can now see that Parliament is now full because the hon. Members are vaccinated. That way, even our people in constituencies will have the confidence in the vaccine. The problem is we are still sitting separately and telling people to be vaccinated.

Madam Speaker, this will not go well with the people on the issue of the vaccine. I would like to find out why the Minister of Health has not taken a step to ensure that all those who are vaccinated start sitting in the Chamber and those who are not go in committee rooms so as to serve as an example and build confidence in our people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, I want to believe the hon. Member is campaigning that so that he should be brought into the House. Let me just answer the question. First of all, the Speaker’s statement did not say all the hon. Members of Parliament are vaccinated. I think the number that she announced was 40, so clearly, we are not even at half and that is why the Speaker has called upon hon. Members of Parliament to ensure that they take advantage of tomorrow’s event and our own clinic here which is vaccinating people. I am sure once we are 100 per cent, we will consider that request.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, as a Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) survivor, I was very happy to take the second jab in Shiwang’andu Parliamentary Constituency. However, my follow up question is on what I requested last time when she brought the response to a question for oral answer. What are is the Government doing to ensure that our rural communities are equally catered for? When I go into the constituency, I want to encourage them to say go to such a clinic and get vaccinated in anticipation of the fourth wave which might be lethal than what we have experienced.

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that important question. If you recall, I said that as a ministry, we want to work with hon. Members of Parliament to ensure that even in rural constituencies where people are not near a health centre, we can organise mobile clinics to ensure that such a programme is implemented. Therefore, those hon. Members of Parliament who would like to do their launch can get to the ministry so that they work with the Provincial Health Directors and the District Health Directors within their constituencies to support the vaccination programme.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, I thank the Minister of Health for the powerful presentation and points. I heard her mention issues of genomic sequencing. This has become a tool by most Governments as well as authorities and researchers as a way to detect the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) evolution because it comes in different variants. May the hon. Minister highlight what genomic surveillance capabilities that have been put up at the ministry to ensure that in an event that there is a new wave, we are able to detect the kind of variant, and we can prepare effectively to ensure that we safe guard the lives of the people.

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed genomic sequencing has become an important tool, and to that effect, the ministry through the ZPHI, has engaged in this important procedure. To this effect, the Government is working to ensure that enough resources are given out to the relevant bodies. Suffice it for me to say that currently, the ZPHI is conducting the genomic sequencing.

Madam Speaker, as a result of the same, as a country we know the type of variant that we have.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, I want to inform the people of Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency, that indeed I was vaccinated, and nothing happened to me. No metal sticks to my body. Therefore, I urge them to go out in numbers and be vaccinated.

Madam Speaker, my concern is on how to sensitise and reach out to the rural community about the vaccine. I may come to your ministry and do the launch, but it will not be enough to reach out to people in all parts of the rural community. Is the hon. Minister thinking of considering other institutions that have many vehicles that are not in use and can be surrendered to district health offices, to help reach out to most parts of our constituencies so that the exercise is done as quickly as possible? I say so, because on Monday, as a Member of Parliament, I received a phone call saying some officers did not have transport to reach out to the rural areas to do the vaccination.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, when I said that hon. Members should get in touch with the ministry, it was not for us to carry out the vaccination here in Lusaka, but it was basically for us to work together with hon. Members of Parliament and other important stakeholders from the districts the hon. Member is talking about. In the same way that we were able to reach every constituency in terms of information and campaigns, I am sure hon. Members and the Government can work together to ensure that the information goes out. There are also rural radio stations that can be used. However, in terms of the commodities, I have already said that we can use mobile clinics and flying doctor services to reach far and remote places, and areas that are not accessible.

Madam Speaker, I also indicated that so far, Zambia has ordered 4.4 million doses and we have been able to make a down payment. The Government is committed to further make payments to ensure that we receive all the 4.4 million doses. As I speak, we have over 400,000 doses, and we are required to vaccinate the people. So, we are prepared as the Government. However, the challenge is on the demand side on how to make our people accept to come in numbers to be vaccinated. Let us get to a level where we should be saying that vaccines have finished and not where we are saying that the people are not willing to get vaccinated. Partners who would like to support us will not do that when whatever we have is not being consumed even after been supported.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, Zambia experienced a shortage of ventilators during the first, second and third waves. How prepared is the ministry in case of the fourth wave, in terms of ventilators?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, there are a number of medicines, medical equipment and other commodities that will be required to ensure that we vaccinate everybody who is due to be vaccinated. As I indicated, all this requires resources. I also indicated that, so far, the response from the mainstream Government, other stakeholders, donors, including the private sector, has been positive. With this positivity where everybody is coming forward, I am certain that we will be prepared to ensure that we save our people in case the fourth wave comes.

Madam Speaker, regarding the ventilators the hon. Member has asked about, I am pleased to say that, today, some Zambians in the diaspora, through the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, indicated that they had done some fundraising and had some ventilators which they want to send to Zambia just to support the programme. So, there is goodwill, but let us ensure that our people demand for the vaccines more so that people can see that, we as a country, are ready and serious about this pandemic.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the President will tomorrow relaunch a national vaccination programme in the wake of the fourth wave. Could she assure the nation regarding the effectiveness of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. She may wish to note that there is paranoia amongst our citizenry, including myself. When we were getting ready to go and get vaccinated with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, information surfaced to the effect that it was not as effective towards the third wave as the AstraZeneca. Could the hon. Minister assure the nation that as we get vaccinated with the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, we will be in a safer position as the fourth wave hits us.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, currently, Zambians do not only have the Johnson & Johnson variety in terms of the vaccines. They also have two others. The Johnson & Johnson is the one where one only takes one jab while for the other two varieties, people have to take two jabs. So, those of us who may be busy choose to go for the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. All the various vaccines have all been said to be good. Hon. Members can google on their tablets and check on the vaccines because there is a lot of information. They may find that a research shows that out of maybe 1,000 people who were vaccinated, only 2 per cent or 0.1 had a complaint. Like I said, there is no drug that is 100 per cent safe. It depends on the body. Even chabe mafuta ozola pamubili –

Madam Speaker: Meaning?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I wanted to say that even body creams react differently on people, including the food we eat. Similarly, some people enjoy beer while others get sick when they just drink beer. So, it is the same even with the vaccines. The truth of the matter is that not even one among the forty hon. Members who have been vaccinated so far, said he got sick or had a negative reaction. That just shows how good the vaccines are. So, they are just stories. The other day, the hon. Member for Matero was telling us some funny myths about men not functioning if they took this and that. So, all those are just stories. Sometimes, Zambians just like to joke about serious issues. So, I think there is nothing like that.

Please, let us advise our people to go and get vaccinated tomorrow. It is a good chance. As I said, you can go to the site where the President will be or the nearest clinic or any clinic, including the Parliament Clinic for the Parliamentarians. Forty Parliamentarians were vaccinated, and as the Speaker has commanded us, the rest of us will go and get vaccinated tomorrow.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I do not know why they are talking about congo dust and that it has a different effect like the vaccine.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for a well-delivered statement and she has, indeed, come in with a bang. This is another topic that is close to my heart. However, I just wish to ride on what the other hon. Member said that if all of us in the House are vaccinated, why should we continue wearing masks? Even in other Parliaments, this is not happening. I do not even know some of the hon. Ministers. I have never seen them because they wear masks. If things change, it will make it easier for us to speak to the people of Matero.

Madam Speaker, I can see that time is running out. The hon. Minister needs to make it clear on what the dos and don’ts are after lifting the restrictions. The move was well timed. If anything, people out there celebrated, but they said it was too late because they had already opened the bars and were interacting. In Matero, bars are a form of living. People work in bars and the bar owners employ many people such as waiters and waitresses. So, when they were closed, it was a big problem in terms of economic activities. Since time is running out, my question is: Now that the Government has lifted the restrictions, what are the dos and don’ts in the bars? Can people now finally kiss, hug and wawawa.

Laughter

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence for the hon. Member for Matero to repeat the question, if it is possible.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Matero, kindly repeat your question.

Mr Sampa: With pleasure, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister of Health relaxed the COVID-19 guidelines a few weeks ago, I saw on social media that although the youths celebrated, they said that it was too late because they had already opened the bars and were living their lives. I understood where they were coming from because in the hood, in Matero Parliamentary Constituency, half of the employers are bar owners and most youths work in bars. So, it was very difficult to keep people away from bars because that is the source of their livelihood. My question is: Could the hon. Minister confirm that it is now okay to go to bars, kiss, hug and wawawa.

Hon. Members: Wawawa!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I want to start from the first point where the hon. Member said that the youths in Matero were happy, but that they had already decided on their own to break the rules. I think that is the point he is making.

Madam Speaker, in fact, this announcement should have been made a month earlier, but there were other factors that needed to be considered. Like I said, this is supposed to be consultative and there are various stakeholders involved in the prevention of the COVID-19. So, the Ministry of Health delayed to make the announcement. So, even when we saw that a number of bars and some restaurants had started opening, we deliberately turned a blind eye to that action knowing fully well that, as a ministry, we had recommended to the DMMU and other stakeholders that there was a need for us to ease the restrictions. So, we did that based on that understanding.

Madam Speaker, I have already stated that even after easing the restrictions, there are things or actions that people on their own should take responsibility for. For example, wearing the mask most times and wearing it correctly. I have noticed that most of us wear the mask and the nose is outside. We also have this habit of putting the mask under our chin. Sometimes, the chin is even dirty and, then, we cover our nose. We have to try as much as possible to make wearing masks as part of our lifestyle or the new norm, and ensure that we do that at all times.

Madam Speaker, we also need to ensure that we wash our hands with soap or sanitise. As you know, hands mainly carry the viruses. If you know something about hands, you will know that over 70 per cent of sicknesses are caused by dirty hands. We collect germs after opening doors, putting our hands on the desk, like I am doing, and touching various objects. So, I encourage people to wash their hands with soap when they get home from Parliament, work or from wherever. If they have sanitiser, they should from time to time, use it. However, it helps just to wash your hands with soap.

Madam Speaker, as Zambians, let us avoid crowded places. It is up to us. We may decide to go for a funeral even when we know that the disease is still there or to crowded places or taverns where, as the hon. Member said, people start kissing …

Mr Sampa: Hugging and wawawa!

Mrs Masebo: … and hugging. Do you call hugging wawawa? Okay, when you start wawawa or ...

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: ... hugging, just know that you are inviting sickness. It might not even be COVID-19. It can be any other disease. As you know, we are now getting into the rainy season when cholera is eminent. When it is wet, the mosquito also becomes active. Remember that malaria is still our number one killer disease in Zambia. There are also other diseases which are infectious apart from COVID-19. So, let us learn to keep ourselves health. It is our life.

Madam Speaker, there is also the issue of social distancing of, at least, one metre away. Our friends in many countries have gone beyond what we are doing because the levels of education are high and the resources are plenty, while in Zambia, we just had an election and it was difficult to keep people part. If you were contesting to be a Member of Parliament, sometimes people just came and hugged you, but because you wanted a vote, you could not stop them. The elections are now over. Let us unite as political parties, hon. Members of Parliament and citizens of Zambia under the leadership of President HH so that we can save lives.

Madam Speaker, the simple point is that we are going to continuously ensure that our inspectors go round to ensure that some of these precautions are followed. However, if something goes wrong – we are observing, and there is surveillance going on through councils, district health departments and even the police, and when we see that there is an outbreak, we shall inform the public. At that point, we may impose these restrictions, including considering what other people are suggesting that the Government of the day should consider making vaccination compulsory. If we are to do that, as a country and Government, we must consult other stakeholders. In other countries, getting vaccinated is compulsory. Like I said, even Emirates is demanding that one gets vaccinated six hours before one jumps on the flight. Otherwise, they are saying that do not go to their countries. So, people will have to make different choices.

Madam Speaker, if I get vaccinated, I will then be careful who I visit and who visits me because I do not want to be exposed to people who do not want to be vaccinated even when the vaccine is there and they just want to be careless with your life. I do not want to be careless with my life. I want to look after myself. I want to live because I have a lot of work to do on earth before God calls me. So, every individual must take it upon himself/herself to protect himself/herself, his/her children and loved ones so that we can be a good country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, we have a lot of work on our order of proceedings. So, when I hear hon. Members discussing dust from somewhere and wawawa, …

Laughter

Madam Speaker: … I know it is time to move on.

We can go to the next item.

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

IMF/ZAMBIA BAILOUT PACKAGE DISCUSSIONS

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

what the progress on the discussions between the Zambian Government and the International Monetary Fund on the bailout package is;
whether there are any conditions attached to the disbursement of the package; and
if so, what the conditions are.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) have, indeed, been having discussions regarding access to the Extended Credit Facility. These discussions have reached an advanced stage and we will be resuming detailed discussions in the next few weeks. We are hopeful that an agreement will be reached with the fund on the parameters of the programme in the shortest possible time.

Madam Speaker, I would like to point out that the engagements that the Government and the IMF are having are for the common good of the nation. They are not aimed at bringing harsh conditions, but rather ensuring that the interests of the Zambian people are protected. The Government and the IMF are, in this regard, is reviewing a set of policies that will restore economic growth, create jobs, protect livelihoods and support the social sector. The policies that will be agreed upon with the IMF will also aim at restoring fiscal fitness and attaining debt sustainability.

Madam Speaker, protecting people’s livelihoods will be at a core of both the Government and the IMF’s final agreement. I must mention here that these policy adjustments to be agreed on with the IMF serve as benchmarks or conditions under which the IMF will agree to support Zambia. They will also ensure that the country overcomes the problems that led it to seek support from the fund in the first place.

Madam Speaker, policy adjustments or conditions to be agreed upon with the IMF will be communicated once programme discussions have been concluded.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Kantanshi who posed the question to the hon. Minister. We appreciate the hon. Minister’s response. It is in the public domain that some of the sticky points that derailed the decision from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) were areas to do with energy tariffs which the IMF was requesting be cost reflective. The second request was the cost of fuel, the Exercise Duty and Value Added Tax (VAT) that were dropped from the cost of fuel so that citizens could be given relief in terms of the pump price they had to pay. The third one was the Famer Input Support Programme (FISP) which was to be either done away with or readjusted. Has anything shifted from these sticky points? Do we have any new conditions being put on the table by the IMF?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, as I said in my response, both the IMF and the Government are interested in seeing that the resources of the country are well protected. In that respect, if the IMF questions, for example, the price at which the Zambian Government is buying fertiliser because it is so high as compared to what is available on the market, I have no problem with that.

Madam Speaker, part of this issue is about removing wastage. It may be possible. In fact, the price of some of these commodities and services may not necessarily have to increase because if the Government attacks the wastage and possible corruption in the procurement of those items, it is fine. That is perfectly fine.

Madam Speaker, similarly on fuel, if the IMF says you are subsidising fuel, but in that subsidy are elements of wastage like buying petroleum products at prices that are too high as compared to what others are paying and the inefficiency by which fuel is being brought into the country, maybe through connections, I have no problem with that because the end result is to ensure that on those items that are coming in the country, we remove wastage and corruption, if at all there is corruption.

Once we have removed that wastage and possible corruption, even if you reset the taxes, it will be okay. The main fact is the possibility that you can put back the taxes, but because you have removed the wastage, the consumer is not necessarily going to be disadvantaged. So, all we are interested in is to ensure that there is efficiency in the manner by which items like fertiliser, electricity and fuel are procured.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his response. I have great respect for him. I worked at the Ministry of Finance and saw his work. My question on the International Monetary Fund (IMF) is on the issue of sovereignty. In 1988, our late President, Mr Kenneth Kaunda, may his soul rest in peace, actually evicted the IMF because it wanted to take over the country.

What is the hon. Minister’s position on the issue of sovereignty? My ‘intel’ from the IMF is that it will bring a blue eyed boy to sit as a shadow Finance Minister where the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will be answerable. It will dictate that electricity tariffs are increased so our people in Matero and elsewhere will pay more money. To them, they are capitalists, God for all of us, each one for oneself.

Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that even on the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), they will dictate that the hon. Minister dissolves it. We know that the current Chairperson of the IDC, as is now, is actually His Excellency President Hakainde Hichilema. I seek his response on the issue of sovereignty. Are we giving our 1964 liberation back to the blue eyed boys?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, no one is coming to take away the sovereignty of Zambia from Zambians. It never happens. All I can advise is that sometimes, when we make mistakes as a country, we should not justify them by running to the issue of sovereignty. That will be a great mistake. We all want to live well and part of that entails that service providers for various things do them properly. I am sure there are so many of us here who have complaints about the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO). So many people in this House and outside have paid money to ZESCO to have electricity connected, but it has taken months and months for them to get that done.

Madam Speaker, if somebody tells us to take a look at something because it is not serving us well as a country, is that person taking away the sovereignty of the country? The answer is no.

Madam Speaker, many people in this House and outside have talked about the inefficiency at ZESCO. The number of employees at ZESCO is so huge. Management is top-heavy. If somebody tells you that, “Take a look at this, do you believe that this institution is consuming a lot of resources and that is why it becomes necessary for you to subsidise its operations? You are actually not subsidising consumers, but the institution itself because it is overpopulated.” Can you argue with that and say that that is wrong because sovereignty is being taken away? I would beg to differ. All they are doing is assist us to get to the required level of efficiency.

Madam Speaker, some people even say that when the IMF comes in, it will tell us to spend less money on education and health. To the contrary, part of the discussion is on whether we are putting enough money into education, health and the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) fight. That is the discussion. If somebody says that we are subsidising the operations of a parastatal institution that is inefficient and, by doing so, are failing to release enough money to put into education and health, I have no quarrel with that because that is what I would want to see.

So, all I can say to the hon. Member is that we should not cloud our vision by pointing fingers at people to say they are taking away our sovereignty when they are actually merely advising us to get rid of inefficiency so that most of the resources are directed towards the welfare of our people.

Madam Speaker, I cannot go into the details of whether the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) is a matter for discussion and so on and so forth. The hon. Member knows that very well because he was once in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. I can only assure him that whatever decision is made, will be in the interest of the Zambian people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for his thorough presentation. I want to find out, building on where the hon. Minister left, the interests of the Zambian people. Zambia’s history with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has been a bitter pill to swallow. If the IMF conditionalities came with certain ramifications, especially on the poor majority of our people, or if the IMF package became another bitter pill to swallow, would we see Zambia or the Government walking out of an IMF deal in order to protect the interests of the Zambian people?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, as I said, our interest is that of protecting the Zambian people, the ordinary Zambian people. If what is being proposed is something that is not good for the Zambian people, of course, we will not participate in such an arrangement. Having said that, I also want to tell you that about fifteen or eighteen years ago, this country was in heavy debt, as you well know, the heavily indebted poor countries (HIPC) as they were called those days. It was the same IMF that we are talking about and other donors who assisted Zambia to get out of that situation through a combination of interventions, one of which was actually to write-off the Zambian debt, the same IMF, and another one of which was to assist the country to get the economy to grow, to earn more foreign exchange and be able to spend and end that longstanding problem that the country used to have with shortages of foreign exchange. I am sure the hon. Member still remembers that. It was the same IMF that assisted Zambia.

Madam Speaker, it is the Government of the Patriotic Front (PF) – I am sorry I did not want to go that way, do not take it politically – that made it inevitable for us to go back to the IMF and ask for a bailout when we had graduated from that situation. I remember that in 2011, we had concluded and graduated from anything do with the IMF because we did not need it. We had enough money, but it is us, through over borrowing, who have made it necessary, once again, like eighteen years ago, to go back to the same IMF and say help us.

Madam Speaker, if we had not conducted ourselves in that fashion – and remember, when this present debt crisis started, many Zambians and international organisations, including the IMF, were advising us to slow down on debt. So, how can we, today, accuse the IMF of undermining the sovereignty of the country when it is us who undermined it by creating conditions of over borrowing? Now, we have no choice, but to go and look for debts. It is us. If there is something like ‘undermining the sovereignty’, it us, through the PF Government, who undermined that sovereignty forcing us today to go back to ask for loans.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, when you go and borrow money, of course, in any situation where you have to borrow, the lender has to ask questions so that he or she is convinced that you will be able to pay it back. It is the PF Government that has brought us in this situation.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, the Zambian people had a very bad experience with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) when it dealt with it some years back. State companies were sold as its demand for it to give us a bailout package. I, therefore, ask the hon. Minister of Finance to be as patriotic as he can be and indicate to the Zambian people whether this country can survive with or without the IMF bailout package.

Madam Speaker, if somebody tells us to take a look at something because it is not serving us well as a country, is that person taking away the sovereignty of the country? The answer is no.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for his thorough presentation. I want to find out, building on where the hon. Minister left, the interests of the Zambian people. Zambia’s history with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has been a bitter pill to swallow. If the IMF conditionalities came with certain ramifications, especially on the poor majority of our people, or if the IMF package became another bitter pill to swallow, would we see Zambia or the Government walking out of an IMF deal in order to protect the interests of the Zambian people?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, the Zambian people had a very bad experience with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) when it dealt with it some years back. State companies were sold as its demand for it to give us a bailout package. I, therefore, ask the hon. Minister of Finance to be as patriotic as he can be and indicate to the Zambian people whether this country can survive with or without the IMF bailout package.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, as I said a few moments ago, it only became necessary to go back to the IMF because we, ourselves got into a condition where we ran out of money. You may recall that a few months ago, the exchange rate was getting wild. It was depreciating all the time and causing inflation. That was not caused by the IMF, but the Government that was in office then, through uncontrolled borrowing. I think the previous Government tried everything possible to do without the IMF. However, it is the same Government which went to the IMF and said: “We have run out of options, can you lead us money?” The discussions of the programme I am talking about, did not start with the UPND. They started with the PF Government. My friend and hon. Colleague, the former Minister of Finance used to stand here and give us updates on the negotiations with the IMF. So, if today, they are saying the negotiation is bad, why did the PF Government approach the IMF for a bailout?

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: You are in charge, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, my hon. Colleague talked about whether parastatals will survive or if we are going to sale them. Again, it is the same story. Ten years ago, ZESCO Limited was a viable company. Through political interventions, that company is today overstaffed. It over borrowed, and now it is in trouble. So, if measures are taken to correct the situation, you cry and say the sovereignty is being undermined yet you are the ones who created those conditions. So, if we take actions that undermine our own economy, we are actually inviting outsiders because we have to look for help. So, the cause of all this is mismanagement on our own side.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi) Madam Speaker, it is my prayer that the excuses or the blame game that is being played is not just psychologically preparing the nation for the worst to come.

Madam Speaker, having said that, the records for the ‘Bretton Wood Brothers’ and many other connected institutions has not been for the interest of the nations they deal with. They give with one hand and take with another. Mainly, their objective is to encourage corporatocracy such that at the end of the day, the conditions – and I am happy that the hon. Minister confirmed in his statement that discussions are on-going. I would like him to answer this question properly and honestly. The President has consistently talked about agriculture as a window for job creation in most of his speeches, starting from his inaugural speech at the Heroes Stadium, his address to this House and during the press conference.

Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has confirmed that he is not just going to avail the conditions, but he knows what they are. What route are we going to take with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) package, regarding agriculture? Is it planned agriculture, traditional agriculture or market agriculture?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I must say that I had challenges trying to follow the reasoning of my hon. Colleague over there, but I will try to respond. If he is trying to link the proposed IMF programme with the agricultural sector, the relevant issue there is whether the Government is spending money wisely in terms of supporting agriculture. The issue of discussion, as I said earlier on, is the price of fertiliser. Questions such as why is it that a bag of fertiliser in Zambia is going for about K800 to K1,000 when in fact, you could buy it at less than half of that amount from the source are being asked. If somebody asked such a question, I would say that is a question any meaningful Zambian would like to find an answer to. Why is our fertiliser so expensive? Why is the fertiliser bought by the Government so expensive? For me, if that question is being asked by the IMF or anybody else, I would say it is a legitimate question that requires to be answered. Otherwise, it is in the interest of everyone, whether it is the IMF, ourselves, hon. Members of Parliament, etc to ensure that the agricultural sector thrives. One of the ways it can thrive is by ensuring that the support that we provide is adequate, cost effective and above all, ensuring that there is equity.

Madam Speaker, you would be surprised to know that in terms of this fertiliser that was being distributed, in certain areas of the country, the support was much higher than in other areas. Our interest as UPND is to equalise the distribution whether you are in Katete or Kaoma, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: ...the fertiliser must be distributed equally.

Madam Speaker, I, do not think the IMF is there to kill our agriculture. To the contrary, it would want our agricultural sector to thrive just as all of us would wish to see.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we ask questions, let us remind ourselves about what the question is. This question is about the progress on the discussions between the Zambian Government and the International Monetary Fund (IMF); whether there are any conditions attached to the disbursement of the package, if so, what conditions? So, as we ask questions, let us be within that question so that we can move to another question afterwards. The build up to the questions should also be brief.

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, since these discussions started a long time ago and I have seen that they have moved at quite a fast pace ever since the United Party for National Development (UPND) took over Government. What would the hon. Minister attribute the fast pace of the negotiations to, which lasted almost five years, but have moved quite fast and nearing conclusion?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, the background is that when Zambia’s debt problem became evident and was getting out of control, the IMF, of course, expressed willingness to assist. However, it said that our biggest problem was that our debt was growing too fast and that we needed to slow down because it would give us problems. So, the discussions started, but when it came to the issue of the Government controlling expenditure, which, of course, was being financed by debt, and the IMF said can you slow down on debt, our Government was not willing or enthusiastic to slow down on borrowing.

Madam Speaker, one of the points or frustrations, if I may call it that, by the IMF was how to help us when our biggest problem was borrowing too fast, but we were not willing to slow down. The IMF said the only way it could help us was for us to cure the problem of borrowing too fast. However, the Government at the time was not willing to adhere to that, so the talks broke down. They said they could not assist us because our problem was over-borrowing and we wanted to do it. That was the main problem that led to lack of progress.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for asking such an important question, which the hon. Minister of Finance is accounting himself to, and I am grateful for that. In his answer, the hon. Minster indicated that the Zambian Government and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) are reviewing policies to achieve, among other things, job creation and fiscal fitness. Those two outcomes will require antithetical policies. For example, job creation will require expansionary policies while fiscal fitness will require contractional policies. How is the Government manoeuvring in those conversations to get the balance which will give outcomes that will ensure they achieve both?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lunte for that interesting question. I think it is interesting in the sense that he says job creation requires expansionary fiscal policy. In a layman’s language, this means the Government must spend more while fiscal fitness means the Government must save money. So, that appears to be a contradiction.

Madam Speaker, in this case, I would argue that it is not contradictory, depending on the approach that you take. Let me point out that from 2012 to 2021, there was, indeed, expansionary fiscal policy. The Government was spending more, hence, borrowing leading to excessive debt. If expansionary fiscal policy leads to job creation and growth, why is it that in the ten years when there was this expansionary fiscal policy we did not see job creation in a meaningful sense? It depends on how it is done.

Madam Speaker, in our case, we are not going to rely on continued Government spending because we have already spent for the last ten years and we do not see jobs. We are going to focus on encouraging the private sector, using their own money, whether generated in Zambia or coming from outside the country in terms of capital flows, as they call it, to generate the investments which will create the growth.

Madam Speaker, the answer is that the spending is going to be done much more by the private sector rather than by the Government through the expansionary policies that the hon. Member is talking about. The good thing is that if you encourage the private sector to bring money to spend, whether it is expanding the mining sector, investing in tourism or agriculture, we are certain that that money is going to create jobs. This is because there is no private sector which spends money for the sake of spending it. When they spend money, they expect to have returns on it.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, the fiscal policy will be expansionary, not from the Government’s side, but from the private sector.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I have great admiration for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. He is a very accomplished economist.

Madam Speaker, the people of Liuwa and Pambashe want clear-cut answers to the questions, which I will ask.

Madam Speaker, I am aware that the previous administration embarked on austerity measures and the cancellation of some loans that were in the pipeline as a way of sustaining the economy. With the coming in of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the people of Liuwa and Pambashe as well as graduates are asking the hon. Minister to tell them, in layman’s language, whether the Government will employ them in the next two years, bearing in mind the bloated expenditure on personal emoluments as the hon. Minister stated? Will they see an increase in ZESCO tariffs and the price of petroleum products?

Madam Speaker, the people are asking if these are part of the conditions that the IMF is requesting to enable us to achieve the fiscal space that we need to create. They are asking if these conditions include a commitment that the Government of the Republic of Zambia will not employ, apart from critical sectors, for the next two, three or four years. They are further asking whether there will be no salary increments, as the hon. Minister stated yesterday, and an increase in ZESCO tariffs and prices for petroleum products or what is commonly referred to as cost-reflective prices. Is that the position that the Zambian people must start preparing for as we sign the bailout package with the IMF?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, perhaps I can take advantage of that question to categorically deny a statement I see circulating on social media that I made a statement to the effect that there would be no salary increments this year. I have never said so. If I said so, can somebody present a clip of where I did? Whether it is going to take place or not, the Budget is only two or three weeks away, so let us wait and see.

Madam Speaker, secondly, the hon. Member for Pambashe was asking if the Government was going to employ with these IMF conditions. Yes, the Government is going to employ in the critical areas. This is why we have to be careful when we just see IMF as a dragon that drinks blood out of the body. In fact, they are very keen that we should employ in areas where there is need, for example, in teaching.

Madam Speaker, many of us have in the past lamented here, how schools in our constituencies are found with only two or three teachers, sometimes even one. Can those children be schooled? Definitely, no! So, we are going to employ. It will happen because money will be shifted from areas that we think are less priority to the future of this nation, who are the young people. That is the way it is going to happen. This is why there has been debate in the past on the Floor of this House when we asked our hon. Colleagues to sit in this House, with open hearts, if we could spend more money servicing debt on infrastructure such as office buildings. If you look around Lusaka today, there are many office buildings, which means we borrowed money to build office buildings. Can we be frank. We are not proud ourselves. Therefore, we are going to shift money, come down to reality, and spend it on our children who are the future of this country. The Government will employ. Hon. Chitotela, expect teachers in your constituency.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government continued spending and that is why the talks slowed down. At the implementation of this bailout programme and you being the Government in power, driven by a manifesto that attracted over one million voters to your party, what manifesto programmes do you think will fell out in terms of the implementation of the IMF programme so that you satisfy these fundamentals that you have talked about of taking us back into economic growth?

Mr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, there is some word which I failed to catch, which makes me fail to appreciate the rest of the question.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kantanshi, repeat yourself briefly.

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, I was referring to the expenditure which caused the collapse of the IMF bailout plan. Obviously, the PF was spending in accordance with its manifesto programmes and the United Party for National Development (UPND) has a manifesto which the people voted it in for. As the implementation of the bailout plan is being carried out, what items in the manifesto might fall off, in his opinion?

Madam Speaker: I am a bit uncomfortable asking the hon. Minister to render his opinion. I know he is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning but let him try.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, we will not run away from the promises that we made to the Zambian people. Maybe what may change or be the case is that of sequencing in the implementation of some of the policies. If he is talking about youth employments, we will make a good start in addressing youth unemployment in the next budget.

Madam Speaker, in terms of free education for the most desperate, as the President said, your children and mine do not need Government support, again we will make progress on that. It is unrealistic to imagine that we will address everything at one goal because we still have a mountain of debt to pay. However, the effort that will be made, will demonstrate clearly that we are driving towards meeting our promises.

Madam Speaker, coming back to the issue of employment and growth of the economy, this is something that we want to address aggressively, not by Government spending money, but by attracting private money to do those things. For example, if you are talking about the Ndola-Lusaka Road, we are not going to spend public money undertaking that road because it is a road that has sufficient traffic to be able to attract private money to do it.

Therefore, the little money that we have, will be used for paying teachers and increasing the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), so that the hon. Members can repair those roofs and move from mud and pole schools and will put desks in schools. The focus will be on attracting the private sector to do the investments so that the jobs are created. The jobs that the Government must create because they are important services like the teachers, we will do our part. However, the rest of the focus will be how to allow the private sector to do the job. I believe that taking that route as we have seen happening in many other countries, the jobs will actually be created faster than would be the case.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

KALABO DITRICT HOSPITAL DOCTOR DEPLOYMENT

9. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Health:

whether the Government has any plans to deploy additional doctors to Kalabo District Hospital;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
how many doctors will be deployed.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to deploy additional doctors and other paramedics countrywide and Kalabo District Hospital is expected to benefit from this intervention. Secondly, additional doctors and other paramedics will be deployed to hospitals countrywide, including Kalabo District Hospital, subject to the availability of funded and vacant positions and funding to be provided by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning for recruitment of additional doctors and other staff. The number of additional doctors to be deployed will be determined by the amount of Treasury authority issued.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, from 1972, Kalabo District Hospital was designated to have two doctors and at that time the population was not what it is now. Currently, Kalabo District has about 113,000 people and they are all expected to be served by two doctors. At the moment, we have only one doctor at the hospital. Is one doctor able to sufficiently meet the health needs of over 113,000 people?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, definitely, one doctor, and not even two, would be said to be sufficient for such a population. If you recall, we have said this is one of our challenges as a ministry. This challenge does not just affect Kalabo District, but does affect most of our hospitals and health centres countrywide.

Madam Speaker, this is one of the issues that the New Dawn Government, under the able leadership of President Hakainde Hichilema, has prioritised. The President did articulate in the House here when he gave his opening speech and gave an assurance to the effect that his new Government would ensure that more health staff will be employed, especially in the 2022 Budget. So, I hope that the hon. Member will support the hon. Minister of Finance when he presents his budget in the next few weeks to come.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker gave the Floor to Ms Nyirenda.

Ms Nyirenda was inaudible.

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, I congratulate the hon. Minister of Health on her appointment and thank her for the well articulated statement she has given. Just like Kalabo Parliamentary Constituency, Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency has a mini-hospital which was just built recently and commissioned. Unfortunately, this hospital has no personnel, and you may wish to note that Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency has over 128,000 people, but is only manned by one doctor. As alluded to by my hon. Colleague, the hon. Member for Kalabo Central, what measures have been put in place by the hon. Minister of Health to ensure that Treasury authority is given to recruit doctors and other paramedics for the mini-hospital in Chasefu, so that we have effective health delivery in Chasefu and Zambia as a whole?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, as earlier alluded to, we do have a critical shortage of doctors and other health staff. The establishment of medical doctors currently in our public hospitals countrywide is 6,090. That is what one would say is the right number of doctors required, and yet the country currently only has 2,807 doctors, which is giving us 46 per cent of the filled establishment. So, you can see just from these figures that if we have only filled up 46 per cent, it goes to say without any doubt that we have an issue that requires urgent attention.

Madam Speaker, this is why I have said that one of the measures that this New Dawn Administration is taking is to begin to employ more doctors. Recently, just last week, I did issue a statement on the Floor of this House to the effect that about 500 doctors will be employed, starting this year into next year. We hope that the number will even be higher next year.

Madam Speaker, let me use this opportunity to say that many at times we loosely these words when we are looking at issues of health staff. We normally use the word ‘doctors’ or ‘nurses’ because these are the ones that people normally would come face-to-face with or those you would say are in the frontline. However, within these numbers, we shall be taking into account other categories of the health staff, namely nurses, pharmacists, maybe clinical officers, dentists, and indeed other categories of medical staff. This is because as you will appreciate that it is not only the doctors that make up the package to give what one would consider quality health services, but other forms of medical staff that ordinarily would actually facilitate doctors to ensure that a patient gets quality healthcare.

So it is a give and take situation, and in our manifesto, this issue of human resource has been well articulated and the President articulated it on the Floor of this House. The ministry is in tune, and we shall be looking at this issue in our budget, by way of ensuring that in our planning under the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) and indeed our own internal plan as a ministry, the issue of human resource is well articulated.

Madam Speaker, what this means is simply that although we have a shortage of staff in the health sector, a number of these categories of staff are actually out in the streets, waiting to be employed. So, the Government is looking at ensuring that we absorb those people who are roaming the streets.

Madam Speaker, the second category also related to the issue of human resource is internal. We have a situation where because of the very high doctor-patient ratio, you find that most of our health workers are basically overworked and sometimes the conditions are not conducive. So, you find that there is demotivation.

Some of them have taken it upon themselves to improve their careers in terms of upgrading their qualifications, but they are not being promoted because the establishment does not have enough space. Some people have worked for many years, but they have not been promoted, and obviously, even I would be demotivated. So, that is also another issue that we will ensure is captured in our Budget, so that we make space for people who are supposed to be promoted.

Madam Speaker, we also have a problem of distribution. His Excellency articulated this issue and said that the New Dawn Government will ensure that there is equity. Whilst there could be one doctor in Kalabo and Chasefu, there could be even smaller health centres with more than that number. So, we will look at redistributing some health workers, especially the specialised health staff. So, just support the New Dawn Administration as it endeavours to improve wherever there are still challenges.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simbao (Luanshya) Madam Speaker, I congratulate the hon. Minister of Health. This comes as good news to the people of Luanshya that, eventually, the Government will send some health staff. However, is the ministry going to extend the working hours for the workers, especially in the clinics? The people of Luanshya are in trouble because clinics shut down at 1800 hours. Should anyone fall sick after 1800 hours, he/she is in trouble. Is the ministry going to extend the working hours thereafter, so that anytime someone falls sick, he/she will be attended to as sickness does not know time?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I have taken note of the hon. Member’s cry. I will act on the matter and I will be able to give a report on the actions that we will take.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I congratulate the hon. Minister of Health on taking a step towards reducing unemployment in the health sector by considering recruiting 500 health staff, even before the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning presents the first United Party for National Development (UPND) Budget. Is the hon. Minister considering recovering the money which the people of Zambia lost, through the corrupt procurement of expired condoms and drugs?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let me give guidance. The question is: Whether the Government has any plans to deploy doctors to Kalabo District Hospital; if so, when the plans will be implemented; and how many doctors will be deployed. I have not seen condoms here.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: So, may be, that question can be deferred to another day.

Sorry, time is running out. The hon. Member for Mwinilunga will ask the last question.

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about employing doctors. However, if I remember very well, as we were heading towards the elections, some doctors were fired –

Mr Sing’ombe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Health in order not to include the recruitment of doctors who were fired in national interest by the cruel Patriotic Front (PF) Government? Is she in order not to state that they will be part of the 500 doctors? The fired doctors do not need a budget because they were fired by a cruel regime, resulting to low numbers of doctors in this country.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister was answering a question raised by the hon. Member for Kalabo Central concerning the deployment of additional doctors, and if so, when and how many doctors. As to how many doctors will be deployed and where they will come from, or whether they include those who were fired or not is a matter of detail, which the hon. Minister can confirm or provide further details when she is asked to. However, for now, I believe she might not have the details to be able to answer that question.

May the hon. Member for Mwinilunga continue.

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, that was precisely my question. The hon. Minister talked about employing additional doctors. However, as we headed towards elections, many doctors were fired by the Patriotic Front (PF) bad Government, ...

Laughter

Mr Samakayi: ..., which was a very bad regime that was retired by the people of Zambia. Is the hon. Minister not considering revisiting that bad decision that was made by the PF, so that our doctors can come back and serve this beautiful country?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, His Excellency touched on that matter on the Floor of this House when he delivered his opening statement. If I recollect, the President guided that the New Dawn Government would look at the issue of the people who were fired using the route of public interest, and yet it was partly political victimisation, on an individual basis. So, as a ministry, we have been proactive and we are looking at cases that have come to our attention, which cases also concern the doctors in question. I want to confirm that the matter is getting serious attention ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: ... and this House will be informed of the action that will be taken.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

GREAT NORTH ROAD REHABILITATION

10. Mr Kampyongo (on behalf of Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development when the Government will rehabilitate the Great North Road between Serenje and Chinsali districts.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the Government plans to rehabilitate the Great North Road between Serenje and Chinsali, a distance of 396.4 km, once funding is secured for the works.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr C. M. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when our main road in Chembe Parliamentary Constituency, which passes through Chipete to Kalasakando, will be worked on. That road has never been worked on, yet it has agricultural potential.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chembe, the question being considered and answered by the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development relates to a road between Serenje and Chinsali districts. The question you have asked relates to another different road, and I believe the hon. Minister had no chance to find out the details of the length of the road that needs to be worked on and the possibility of how. So, that question is too general. You can file in a question, which the hon. Minister can answer on another day.

Mr C. M. Mpundu indicated assent.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the stretch between Chinsali and Serenje is part of the Great North Road, which is a get way to East Africa, and most of the fuel we consume comes from the Port of Dar-es-Salaam, and many other goods, including health products, come into this country through that road. Our Government started to work on the stretch between Nakonde and Chinsali supported by the African Development Bank (AfDB). The House may wish to note that that is the road that Her Honour the Vice-President has to use when she goes to her former constituency, Kaputa.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the ministry will consider using the Public- Private Partnership (PPP) option to work on the road between Lusaka and the Copperbelt. The importance of these two stretches is almost the same. Could the hon. Minister consider using the same option that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning indicated in form of the PPP to work on this stretch, which is very critical to the economy of this country.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I am a little perplexed to hear the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, whose constituency is also serviced by this critical road, actually emphasis the critical nature of the Great North Road in terms of the economy of this country, yet not long ago in this House, we heard various hon. Members on the opposite side boast about many kilometres of tarred roads in their constituencies and emphasise that they have done a lot in terms of infrastructure development. However, this critical road, the hon. Member also recognises as being critical, was left out.

Let me assure you, Madam Speaker, that the New Dawn Government of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, will not work the way the previous Government was working. It will set priorities which are right for this country. Further, talking about this road, the Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), has engaged the African Development Bank (AfDB) to consider channeling some of the possible savings, and this is up to US$14.7 million, from the very road that the hon. Member has mentioned from the Chinsali/Nakonde Road Project towards holding maintenance works on the Serenje/Mpika Road. The AfDB has approved this proposal and the procurement of a detailed design and supervision consultant for the holding maintenance works is envisaged to commence during the course of the fourth quarter, which is the quarter in which we are of 2021.

Furthermore, Madam Speaker, the board of the AfDB is yet to give approval to the request from this Government for the full rehabilitation of that stretch. When the Government was interacting with the ADB, one of the pre-conditions was that it was waiting for the Government to engage with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) as this matter affected the decision of the AfDB Board. When the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was presenting a statement on the engagement with the IMF earlier in the day, it was interesting to note that certain hon. Members of this House brought into question the sovereignty of this country. It is absolutely important that we engage with the IMF for things like completing the works on the Great North Road.

I will go further, Madam Speaker, to state that to keep the stretch between Serenje and Mpika from further deterioration, because it is in a bad state, while the Government mobilises resources for the complete rehabilitation, it has engaged China Geo Engineering Corporation at a cost of K95.66 million to conduct emergency maintenance works. However, due to funding constraints, as a result of the empty coffers left by the previous administration, …

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: … so far, only K18 million has been paid to the contractor who is on site out of the certified K23million. The contractor has so far covered 81 kilometres of pothole patching and selected reconstruction. This represents 25 per cent completion of the total scope of works. This is due for completion in the first quarter of 2022, funds being available.

Madam Speaker, the Mpika to Chinsali, that is the remaining stretch, has already secured financing from the European Investment Bank (EIB) and the European Union (EU). Procurement works for this stretch are expected in early 2022 and works should commence by the third quarter of 2022. A total of €182.73 million, that is, €110million from the EIB and €72.75 million from the EU itself has already been secured for this stretch.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, I am glad that 90 per cent of my question has been answered. However, my heart troubles me when I see a road like the Great North Road, which is very viable and busy, a road which is able to fund itself and yet on the other side, we are talking about borrowing money for it

Madam Speaker, I wish the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning could give us an indication of how much money we collect from the Great North Road because it is a very busy road which is able to finance itself. For me, I would propose that the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development checks the books of those tollgates, that is the entries from Nakonde to check how much money we make. We make more than we are looking for from other financing institutions.

Madam Speaker: I believe the hon. Minister will be able to supply that information if he is given time, but for now, I do not think he will be able to do that since that is a very specific question.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Madam Speaker, as I ask this question, I am totally shocked about the way the hon. Minister is responding to questions. I am shocked in the sense that in one breath, he blames the Patriotic Front (PF) for all sorts of things while in another, confirms that there were certain things that were left in the pipeline for these particular works to commence. Obviously, in the last two weeks he has been in office, he has not presided over these procurements and the things he is talking about. Is the hon. Minister able to confirm that, in as much as he would like to politic on everything that comes his way because he thinks he is in this House for politicking and not to work, ...

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Chilangwa: ... yes, some of these things he is alluding to were left in place by the same PF that he keeps on castigating every day?

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I pose that question.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the point we are making is that in determining development in terms of infrastructure, where it is concerned, there ought to be priority setting. The point we are making is that in the previous administration, whose members now day in day out are thumping themselves on the chest in terms of what they have done, some critical infrastructure was left out. This is not the only one that is critical to the economy of this country. The Lusaka/Ndola Road is very critical. Those who travel on this road will attest to its state right now. The point we are making now is that this new administration, in setting these priorities, will look at what is critical to service this nation and also to service the economy. You have heard one hon. Minister after another talk about the priority of this Government, which is to grow this economy.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Quality!

Mr Fube: No!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, what has been done? All I was doing was making a comparison between what was done to this critical infrastructure, which is the Great North Road, and what the various hon. Members on the other side of the House have been boasting about on certain roads in their constituencies which may not be as critical as the Great North Road.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, yes, whilst the stretch through Shiwang’andu is still dilapidated, I was happy to see the Mazabuka/Lusaka Road done, …

Mr Kafwaya: Bottom Road!

Mr Kampyongo: … and the Chirundu/Lusaka Road done because we considered all these roads as very critical. The hon. Member for Dundumwezi was always crying here …

Mr Sing’ombe: Question!

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: … about the Mazabuka Road…

Hon. PF Members: Yes!

Mr Kampyongo: …and it was worked on in a short period of time. If you had to ask me, I can –

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: How many kilometres were those?

Mr Kampyongo: You have your staff to give you the kilometres that were worked on.

Madam Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Kampyongo: I appreciate the fact that the hon. Minister alluded to funds from the European Union (EU) for the stretch between Chinsali and Mpika.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us listen to the question.

Mr Kampyongo: Like I stated earlier on, our Government had started working on the Nakonde/Chinsali stretch, I did refer to the example given by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and partly the submission that was made by the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba. Would the hon. Minister not consider a Public-Private Partnership (PPP) arrangement on the stretch between Mpika and Serenje because that road is one busy road which can finance itself? That was my question.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I have heard the question by the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu. However, what I have described here is that this road is being looked at, first of all, by the African Development Bank (AfDB) in terms of what is happening beyond Chinsali, that is, Chinsali to Nakonde via Isoka and also what is happening between Serenje itself to Mpika and between Mpika and Chinsali, including this funding from the EU which is looking at the stretch between Mpika and Chinsali. I think when all these funds come into place, the whole stretch will be adequately covered.

Madam Speaker, if you come to PPPs, it is one of our priorities because we are limited in the resources that we have. The hon. Minister of Finance spoke to this particular issue earlier. A PPP, put in place, will ensure that we have rehabilitation or construction works of a road without affecting our own resources. However, it does take time to organise a PPP. The reason this particular question has been raised today is that the Great North Road, between Serenje and Chinsali, requires urgent attention. If we were to wait to start the process of organising a PPP, I think the hon. Member, who was a senior Cabinet Minister before he was asked by the people of Zambia to go on the other side, will realise that it will take a long time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

MWINILUNGA FRUIT PROCESSING PLANT

11. Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

when the fruit processing plant in Mwinilunga District will become operational;
what the cause of the delay in operationalising the plant is;
whether there are any plans to encourage the local people to venture into fruit farming, especially on out grower scheme basis;
if so, what the plans are; and
if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mulenga): Madam Speaker –

Mr Sampa: What is your name?

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, first and foremost, thank you. The hon. Member for Matero is asking for my name. I am Hon. Chipoka Mulenga, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulenga: ... Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulenga: ... and Member of Parliament for Chingola Parliamentary Constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutinta: Tell him!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, proceed.

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I just want to thank the hon. Member for posing the question because it gives a chance to me to highlight our continued effort and commitment to encouraging local participation in realising the dream of value addition and industrialisation in our country which the New Dawn Government has committed to the Zambian people.

Madam Speaker, the fruit processing plant will be operationalised in the fourth quarter of 2021, and this is where we are. I wish to indicate that there has not been any delay in operationalising the fruit processing plant as the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) is currently on track and working within the prescribed twenty-four month plan timeline that the Government is facilitating to actualise this important task.

Madam Speaker, you must note that the New Dawn Government is doing everything possible to ensure that it fulfils the mandate within whatever timeframes it prescribes to the Zambian people. This is because such undertakings are a recipe for reducing the cost of doing business as opposed to extending the timelines in which it fulfils its mandate or the objectives that it has set by the people of Zambia.

In the quest to encourage local participation towards this very important venture, our Government, the New Dawn Government, has put in place plans to encourage local people to venture into fruit farming, especially on an outgrower scheme basis. We want locals to participate in all the developmental activities that we are undertaking as a Government. Long gone are days when we always looked out for outsiders to be a part or rather to champion the development of this country. We want to let every Zambian believe in himself/herself that he/she will be the key driver in the development of this country.

So, the New Dawn Government is committed to seeing that whatever this fruit processing plant is doing is championed and driven by the efforts of indigenous local people. The fruit processing plant is designed to be a hybrid plant and, as such, will process different types of fruits and vegetables. The plant, therefore, will process pineapples, mangos and tomatoes, amongst others, into juices. The plant will also produce mineral water, dry and fresh fruit package products.

Madam Speaker, it should be understood that in the past, we saw pineapples, mangos and many indigenous fruits go to waste. However, the New Dawn Government is committed to seeing that we add value to it. Over 600 farmers from Mwinilunga all the way through to Ikeleng’i District have already been consulted. These farmers will supply the fruit processing plant with the necessary fruits and vegetables on a seasonal basis.

Furthermore, various non-governmental organisations (NGOs) willing to come on board and provide capacity building support to farmers are being engaged, which include Musika and World Vision. The NGOs will provide training facilities in agriculture and irrigation techniques and solutions in order to promote local farmers.

Madam Speaker, the reason we have even gone further to engage these NGOs is that we want when our local farmers engage into these farming and agricultural activities preparing their products to come and supply to the processing plant, they do it right the first time. We have seen in the past where the so called youth empowerment has been given to the youths without skills training and it has always failed. However, the New Dawn Government is committed to seeing to it that when it engages youths and locals in outgrower scheme facilities, they are well trained so that whatever resources that are given to them are put to good use and results are seen.

Madam Speaker, this fruit processing plant will contribute to turning a valuable natural resource in Mwinilunga and Ikeleng’i into wealth for the people. The project, in addition to enhancing job creation for farmers in the region, will also promote and advance opportunities for various players in the value chain and will ultimately assist to revamp the economic activities within the North-Western Province and the nation at large.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the answers that he has provided. The opening of the factory under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was a moving target on the dates. We were told that they would open the factory in October 2019. They moved it to February 2020 and then they went quiet because of preparing for elections, but of course, we can trust the New Dawn Government –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. The hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry was very clear in his response in which he did state that the establishment of this factory is within time. Is the hon. Member of Parliament who is trying to pose a follow up question in order to contradict a Cabinet hon. Minister’s position by creating his own information contrary to what the hon. Minister has given on the Floor of the House? Her Honour the Vice-President and the Leader of Government Business, I think this hon. Member must be dealt with because …

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: … the hon. Minister has given a clear statement. Is the hon. Member for Mwinilunga in order to contradict the hon. Minister’s response?

Madam Speaker: Order!

If the hon. Member for Mwinilunga is contradicting the hon. Minister, he is definitely out of order. Maybe he did not get clarity and that is why he asked that question. Hon. Member for Mwinilunga, as you are asking your question, bear in mind that you do not contradict the hon. Minister who has actually answered your question very well. You may continue.

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I oblige. Let me state that I am not contradicting anyone. In fact, I have said that I can trust the New Dawn Government with the date that it has given and I am grateful for that. No wonder this Government was given a chance to lead this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I was just stating that the previous Government gave us a moving target.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the answers given by the hon. Minister. I also appreciate the fact that I am coming from the ground because I visit my constituency regularly. The hon. Minister has rightly said that there are quite a number of products that will be processed such as mangoes, oranges, beans, tomato, and pineapples. These products will be processed into the juices and paste. On the ground, what is happening is that people are emphasising so much on the production of pineapples. Most of the farmers who have been sensitised and have gone full throttle in production are those who are engaged in pineapple production. I have gone round asking if there are those who would be engaged in the production of mangoes, oranges and tomatoes and I have found out that there is no activity in that area. I would therefore, ask the hon. Minister to try and engage the farmers to also go into orange, mango and tomato production. If sensitisation programmes could be arranged around this area, –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mwinilunga, please ask your question because now you are debating. That is not a question.

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, would the hon. Minister mind making arrangements to sensitise people to engage in orange, mango and tomato production?

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that this facility we are putting up is worth millions of dollars. So, we cannot only be focused on one product, in this case, pineapples. We want to take advantage of the millions of dollars we have invested in this multi-facility project that is going to process pineapples, which is a primary product or crop from Mwinilunga. However, we should be very cognisant of the fact that pineapples and mangoes are seasonal crops. While we stock pineapples, their season elapses when it is a season for mangoes and many other crops. So, the other crops need to be processed, and this multi-million dollar facility we put up must continue running.

Madam Speaker, as the New Dawn Government, we are taking advantage of what I have just explained to you on seasonal fruits and engage the local producers and local farmers on the importance of engaging in various farming activities. We have been talking about diversifying from maize. Even in Mwinilunga and Ikeleng’i, we will encourage our farmers to diversify from pineapples into other fruits and crops like I have mentioned.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his advice of asking us to probably do more in sensitising our farmers. We heed the advice.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I would like to believe that what inspired to that particular plant is historical, based on the fact that sometime back, during the Kaunda era, there was a plant of that nature. Another reason is competency based, meaning the presence of good soil for pineapples in that area. I get the feeling that if we base this idea on rain-fed crops or seasonal crops as the hon. Minister said, these plants or crops are likely going to turn into a white elephant. If we keep referring to the issue of local, it means that the crops that we envisage to get as raw material to feed in the area will just be sourced locally. In as far as these industries can be created elsewhere, does the hon. Minister think that the fruits could also be coming through the window of irrigation and many others, by involving other players in that field from across the country and not just within that geographical area?

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, we must understand and appreciate that in as much as Mwinilunga and Ikeleng’i produce most pineapples, they do have mangoes as well, but we are not going to limit the supply of mangoes and other fruits to Mwinilunga. We will be getting them from the Copperbelt and other surrounding towns including Lusaka, the Southern Province and

Chilubi, itself.

Madam Speaker, what we, as the New Dawn Government is doing is to focus on setting up industries based on the major products of a district. For example, we are trying to focus on setting up copper processing plants because that is the chief product that we have on the Copperbelt. It does not mean that we will take our mangoes into a copper processing plant. The mangoes we consume on the Copperbelt will be taken to Mwinilunga.

Madam Speaker, as the New Dawn Government, we are planning to also set up plants for cashew nuts and many other products in the Western Province. This is the vision that we have. So, hon. Member for Chilubi, be rest assured that the mangoes from Chilubi will soon find their way into Mwinilunga.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister’s statement comes as good news to the people of Mwinilunga as the Government sets up processing industries for pineapple, tomatoes, mangoes, and other products produced in Mwinilunga.

Madam Speaker, I was in Mwinilunga three weeks ago. Has the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry liaised with the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development as these industries are being set up to look at the Solwezi/Mwinilunga Road, which is in a deplorable condition? This road was not worked on by the past regime. Are they taking into consideration the smooth transportation of these products that will soon be produced in Mwinilunga and need for a market on the Copperbelt and Solwezi?

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government is doing everything systematically and methodically. For a very long time, farmers have complained of hardships in transporting their products and crops. We will not subject our people to failing to transport their crops to the destination where they are supposed to be processed

Madam Speaker, in as much as we focus on getting the crops from the farmers that are producing them, we have been liaising in Cabinet, and amongst ourselves as hon. Ministers, on how best we can transport these goods from the processing plant to the markets.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member should rest be assured that the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is constructing roads in places of value addition, and places where the roads can start paying for themselves, as opposed to building roads for the gallery. Therefore, roads to those industrial parks will be constructed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I congratulate the Hon. Chipoka on his role as this is the first time I am addressing him.

Madam Speaker, I have heard the issue of Mwinilunga and pineapples time and again. I remember that in Grade 7, in the United National Independence Party (UNIP) days, there was a question regarding what Mwinilunga was known for, and the answer was pineapples. However, along the way, all we have heard is talk about revamping Mwinilunga.

Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure the nation that investment will be put there to recapture Mwinilunga Pineapple Canary so that we can export? The soil and everything else that is needed are ready. Could the hon. Minister assure the nation and the people of Mwinilunga so that the people of Matero can buy those pineapple cans? Is this rhetoric or will it be done?

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, a Government has come that speaks words that the country can have confidence in, and they will be actualised.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulenga: The pronouncements that President Hakainde Hichilema makes are a reality, and never rhetoric. It is the same inspiration that we have taken even as his hon. Cabinet Ministers, and everyone aligned to the party, to speak to the nation and the world, and make these pronouncements a reality.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Matero should rest be assured that sound investment is being put in Mwinilunga. It will be a reality within the last quarter of this year and fully operational in 2022.

Madam Speaker, allow me to also mention that we are creating 250 decent and pensionable jobs with an extension of 1,000 other jobs for the people of Mwinilunga.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulenga: I understand the background that the hon. Member is coming from because there are pronouncements which were made in the past, but have not been actualised. However, the New Dawn Government is giving you confidence that it will be done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I like people who are truthful. The hon. Minister should be truthful. This project was started by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. Could he tell the world and the country at large that, yes, indeed, there must be continuity and that that project that he is going to commission in the last quarter of 2021/2022 is basically a fruit that was planted by his predecessors. It is important to give credit where it is due; that is being humane. Could the hon. Minister confirm that he has not planted this plant today, but it is something that he will continue to nurse and ensure that he brings it to fruition?

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I sympathise with the hon. Member. In my opening remarks, I never said who started the project or who did not start, neither have I said who has left us in debt and who has not left us in debt, and neither have I said who has increased the debt ceiling or who has not.

Madam Speaker, what I am saying is that the New Dawn Government is committed to giving value addition to the Zambian people. The New Dawn Government under the able leadership of His Excellency and Commander-in-Chief, President Hakainde Hichilema, is giving more jobs to the local people. The New Dawn Government is creating an industry, wholly owned by the Zambian people and not only foreign owned, and is creating jobs for the locals. So, if the hon. Member is aggrieved that I have not mentioned who started the project and who is continuing it, I sympathise with him. However, all I can say is that the New Dawn Government is committed to delivering to the Zambian people and it is going to commission the project.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1909 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 7^th October, 2021.

____________

Order Paper

parliament.gov.zm

Search form

You are here

Wednesday, 6th October, 2021

Order Paper

parliament.gov.zm