Tuesday, 26^th October, 2021

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

WITHDRAWAL OF DIRECTIVE BY HON. MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Thursday, 12^th October, 2021, the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker directed the hon. Member for Nkana to reduce in writing the matter of public importance relating to the over 150 houses allegedly on the verge of collapse in his constituency. In raising the matter, the hon. Member had stated that the state of affairs of the houses had been going on for more than two years.

 

Hon. Members, the criteria for admitting matters of urgent public importance are set out in Order No. 135 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2021, which states as follows:

 

“135.  (1)   A matter shall be considered urgent and of public importance if –

 

1. it is a case of recent occurrence;
2. it does not relate to a general state of affairs;
3. it involves the administrative or ministerial responsibility of the Government;
4. it requires the immediate attention of the House and the Government; and
5. it deals with only one substantive issue.

 

“(2)      A matter is inadmissible as a matter of urgent public importance if –

 

1. it has not been raised at the earliest opportunity;
2. it has already been discussed by the House during the same Session;
3. it is not so serious as to require urgent attention of the House and the Government; or
4. it is sub judice. ”

 

Hon. Members, It is clear from this provision that a matter that fails to satisfy the criteria set out in paragraphs (a) to (e) of Standing Order 135(1) is inadmissible. In this regard, the matter raised by the hon. Member for Nkana does not qualify to be a matter of urgent public importance because it does not satisfy the requirements of paragraph (a) of the Standing Order, which requires that the matter be of recent occurrence. The matter that the hon. Member raised concerns houses that had been in that state for more than two years. For this reason, the directive that the Hon. First Deputy Speaker gave on Thursday, 21^st October, 2021, is hereby withdrawn and the hon. Member for Nkana has been accordingly guided on the way forward.

 

I thank you.

 

­_______

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

 

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to issue two ministerial statements, as directed by you. With your permission, I will make the statements in the following manner: I will start with the statement on security at tollgates, following the attack on a police officer and cashiers at the Kalense Tollgate in Kasama on 8^th October, 2021, and thereafter issue another statement on the alleged escalating levels of violence in the country.

 

ATTACK ON KALENSE TOLLGATE

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I now proceed to issue the first statement, which is in response to the point of order raised by Hon. Miles Sampa, Member of Parliament for Matero Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, on 8^th October, 2021, the Kasama Central Police Station recorded a murder case in which a Zambia Police officer was fatally shot whilst on duty at the Kalense Toll Station situated about 25 km from Kasama Town between 0200 hours and 0400 hours by a lone bandit. The police also recorded a case of aggravated robbery in which cash amounting to K38,425 and property worth K12,288 was robbed from the officer and two tollgate cashiers, and two cases in which the two cashiers were allegedly raped by the same bandit. The Government regrets the incidence and sends a message of condolences to the family of the deceased police officer. Let me also take this opportunity to wish the two cashiers a quick recovery.

 

Madam Speaker, in relation to the concerns raised by the hon. Member of Parliament, I wish to state the following:

 

1. the lives of our officers are safe, as we have increased manpower and intensified patrols at tollgates and elsewhere;
2. no suspect has been made yet in connection with the case. However, investigations have reached an advanced stage, and the nation will be informed of the outcome in due course; and
3. the two cashiers have since been counselled by the Zambia Police Victim Support Unit (VSU) and deployed to another place.

 

Madam Speaker, the incidence was a violation of human rights which should be condemned by all Zambians. Further, the New Dawn Government considers security a magnet for the investment needed to foster socio-economic development in the country. To avoid the recurrence of such incidences, the Zambia Police Service has put in place the following measures:

 

1. enhanced intelligence gathering;
2. increased surveillance patrols at all tollgates across the country; and
3. increased manpower levels at all toll stations.

 

Madam Speaker, I take this opportunity to assure the nation that the Zambia Police Service has intensified security at all toll stations in the country, and appeals to the general citizenry to report any suspicious persons and activities to it. Further, I warn perpetrators of crime that they will be met with the full wrath of the law.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

ALLEGED ESCALATING LEVELS OF VIOLENCE IN THE COUNTRY

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I proceed to the second statement, which relates to the alleged escalating levels of violence countrywide in response to the points of order raised by Hon. Brian Mundubile, Leader of the Opposition and Member of Parliament for Mporokoso Constituency, and Hon. Davison Mung’andu, Member of Parliament for Chama South Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, I assure the nation, through this august House, that the situation in the country is peaceful, contrary to the insinuations of being made by some political party. The New Dawn Administration abhors violence, as violence, regardless of its source and form, is a vice that should not be condoned by any peace-loving Zambian.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has noted, with great concern, the isolated cases of violence being recorded in some parts of the country. Let me now address the specific incidences raised by the two hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Madam Speaker, on 8^th October, 2021, Hon. Christopher Shakafuswa was appearing before court in an election petition case. In the process, alleged United Party for National Development (UPND) supporters identified a person they suspected to have been involved in the murder of a UPND supporter on 19^th July, 2021, in Mandevu. The alleged UPND supporters manhandled the suspect, but quick action by the Zambia Police Service restored law and order. That was a violation of the sanctity of the courts from which we all look for justice. I wish, therefore, to indicate that investigations into the matter are ongoing and that the nation will be informed of the outcome in due course.

 

Madam Speaker, with respect to the violence that occurred in Kaumbwe Constituency, Petauke District, where by-elections were taking place, I inform this august House that the Zambia Police Service recorded a number of incidences. To begin with, on 18^th October, 2021, two vehicles, registration numbers BAD 2385 and BAD 8730, which were in the convoy of the Patriotic Front (PF) Vice-President, Hon. Given Lubinda, were damaged by a mob suspected to be UPND cadres. Investigations into the matter are ongoing. Further, on election day, Thursday, 21^st October, 2021, the Zambia Police Service impounded a motor vehicle, registration number ACX 9847, found with offensive weapons and chitenge materials for the PF, and arrested five people and charged them with being in possession of offensive weapons. The suspects have since been released on police bond. I urge the Zambia Police Service to expeditiously bring all those involved to book, regardless of their political affiliation.

 

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, made it clear during the Official Opening of the First Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly that the New Dawn Government does not condone any form of violence. It is in this regard that he has directed all the law enforcement agencies to be professional in the discharge of their duties. The Government of the UPND will not take kindly to any form of violence. This is a clear demonstration of the Government’s commitment to ensuring that the people of Zambia fully enjoy their civil rights and liberties. We are, indeed, in control of the affairs of the country.

 

Madam Speaker, the Zambia Police Service is implementing measures intended to ensure that violence, in all its forms, comes to an end. The measures include the following:

 

1. enhanced co-operation and understanding amongst the members of the public, leaders of political parties as well as political party cadres;
2. enhanced crowd management and control, particularly during by-elections;
3. discouraging political parties from ferrying cadres to areas where there are by-elections;
4. engaging stakeholders on the importance of unity, regardless of political, religious and ethnic grouping, to avoid loss of life and damage to property; and
5. sensitising the general public on the importance of upholding the rule of law and order.

 

Madam Speaker, I warn all those perpetrating violence, specifically political party cadres, that they are not exempted from abiding by the provisions of the law and that perpetrators of violence will be dealt with regardless of their political affiliation. Let me also assure the nation, through this august House, that the New Dawn Administration is anchored on the rule of law.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the two ministerial statements issued by the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for his statements. I also commend him for coming out strongly. That is the Jack Mwiimbu we know when it comes to violence. The Zambian people, this time around, hope that the hon. Minister’s words will match his actions.

 

Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister looks at the incidences that I cited in the point of order, relating to the arrest of Hon. Chisopa in court when he was still on the stand; Hon. Chanda Remember Mutale; the Mayor of Kabwe; witnesses in Hon. Miles Sampa’s case; and witnesses in Hon. Christopher Shakafuswa’s case, obviously, they cannot be coincidences, and the people of Zambia want to know whether there is an invisible hand behind them.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the new hon. Leader of the Opposition …

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: … in the House for his kind words to me.

 

Madam Speaker, as the New Dawn Administration, we have assured the nation that we will not be involved in any way in the administration of the criminal justice system in the country, and we are going to live by that assurance. We have no interest, whatsoever, in instructing the Zambia Police Service or any other security agency to take action against any member of the public because we do not want to repeat what used to happen in the sad ten years of the PF.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: We want every Zambian, irrespective of political affiliation, to enjoy their civil rights and liberties as enshrined in the Constitution.

 

Madam Speaker, I heard my hon. Colleague state that Hon. Chisopa and Hon. Remember Mutale were arrested while taking their stand in court. That is not the correct position. The hon. Members were arrested outside court premises for heinous crimes they allegedly committed prior to the 12^th August, 2021, General Elections. When police officers realised that they are free to execute their obligations and enjoy their rights under the New Dawn Administration, and that there was no interference from my office, they decided to enforce the rule of law by bringing to book those who had committed offences before the elections.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, it is important to note that there is no statute of limitation in criminal offences. If one committed offences and was enjoying perceived immunity that is not recognised by law, the police will follow one under the New Dawn Administration.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: That is exactly what happened in the case in point.

 

Mr Samakayi: Correct!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam, on the other issues the hon. Member had referred to, I have condemned the activities at court and specifically stated that there is sanctity at court. All of us must respect court grounds, and no violence must be allowed to take place there.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, we and the entire country are aware that the Patriotic Front (PF) regime was very violent, not only during the run up to the elections, but also during the whole period of its rule, and there were incidences of violence in which people were maimed. I could cite many examples, including that of an Opposition leader, Mr Sean Tembo, who was maimed on Cairo Road, and such cases have been the subject of debate on the Floor of this House. There was also the incident in which Mr Lawrence Banda was killed in Kaoma, and those who killed him are still free on the streets of this country.

 

Madam Speaker, the citizens are asking questions on the pace at which the law is supposed to visit the perpetrators of violence, most of whom are known PF cadres. I do not doubt that some of the violence we are seeing today is perpetrated by people trying to mete out punishment outside the law which, of course, we do not support. My question is: How much more investigation and time does the hon. Minister need to bring to book the PF perpetrators of violence, who are well known and on whom dockets were opened at various police stations? Could the hon. Minister clarify these issues for the nation to be assured that the New Dawn Government will actually mete out punishment on the PF perpetrators of atrocities that were committed in the previous regime.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Zambezi East for this important question he has asked.

 

Madam Speaker, as I indicated earlier, the New Dawn Administration does not want to interfere in the work of the investigative wings of the Government. However, I have no doubt that the police has heard the hon. Member, and that it is listening to the lamentations of the members of the public and the hon. Members of this House. Listening to Hon. Kambita, a Member of Parliament, raise these issues, I have no doubt that these are issues on which members of the public, including every one of us, are asking what is happening. As I indicated earlier, there is no statute of limitation on criminal cases. So, I have no doubt in my mind that the police is taking appropriate action against those who were involved in acts of violence and other heinous crimes. Soon, the wheels of justice will start picking up speed not through my instigation, but out of their own volition.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lusambo: Question!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Chama South and, indeed, all the citizens of this country, I say that violence is bad, whether it is perpetrated by the Patriotic Front (PF) or the United Party for National Development (UPND), and we need to condemn it.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is saying that the police should act. However, it is clear that the same police officers did not act when purported PF cadres were involved in violence, as the hon. Minister has indicated that the ten years of the PF’s being in Government was a violent period, which I doubt. There may have been isolated incidences of violence in some areas because we never experienced violence in Chama and much of Muchinga. Yes, it was there. What measures has the Government put in place to ensure that police officers who watched as purported cadres committed acts of violence, do not continue to behave that way? I ask this question because we are informed that the police officers have continued watching. So, what measures have been put in place to ensure that when we come back in 2026, we do not also say, ‘The past five years of the UPND was a period of violence in which the police should have acted’?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am very happy that the hon. Member for Chama South has raised the issue he has just raised on the Floor of the House. Accordingly, I respond and inform the nation, and for his benefit, that the violence we are witnessing in this country started in Chawama at the first PF meeting. That was the first time we witnessed the use of mapanga and, from that day, the history of country under the PF has been written in blood. That was the only era in which we witnessed organised gangs roam the streets, and terrorise people with mapanga and guns. The PF cadres had impunity even to beat up hon. Ministers. That is on record, and we are saying that sad situation should never be allowed to repeat itself in this country because it is a very sad chapter that all of us, Zambians, abhor.

 

Madam Speaker, it was only under the PF that we saw its cadres clad in military regalia be allowed to use the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) to threaten Zambians. That era; that sad part of the country’s history, should not be allowed to repeat itself, and I call upon all my hon. Colleagues in this House, who are leaders, to condemn that sad chapter in the history of this country.

 

Madam Speaker, it was only under the PF that police officers were not able to perform their functions professionally while those who did so were said to be targeting violent PF cadres, and retired in the national interest, transferred or humiliated. As a result, our gallant police officers started fearing to perform their duties.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Under the New Dawn Administration, we will not allow any officer in the security wings to be retired in the national interest for being professional, as we want to restore the dignity of the officers so that they perform their duties in the interest of the nation. We will not allow a situation in which party cadres reign supreme like they did under the PF. The cadres were superior to the PF, as they were the ones who directed the police on whom to arrest and humiliate in this country, and we do not want to go back to that sad era. For the good of this country, we should all condemn violence and not allow police officers to be used as tools of the Opposition or the Ruling Party.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, what happened in Kasama is very sad.

 

Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that he has put in place enough manpower as well as surveillance to ensure that the operators and security officers manning tollgates are safeguarded. However, I think there is more we need to do because to be forewarned is to be forearmed. The thieves will keep coming back, but we do not know in how what numbers. So, apart from increasing manpower, do the tollgates have safes where money can be stored? Further, in terms of response time, given the distances between the two tollgates, will our men and women in uniform be able to respond in good time? If not, what other security measures does the ministry plan to put in place to ensure that the operators and officers at the tollgates are safe, in terms of backup response?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa for raising the pertinent issues.

 

Madam Speaker, firstly, I just want to apologise, on behalf of the nation, because on the fateful day in Kasama, instead of there being two police officers at the tollgate, there was only one, which should not have been the case.

 

Madam Speaker, what we have done is to ensure that at every given time, especially at night, there is more than one police officer guarding every tollgate. Further, safes and surveillance cameras have been installed. In fact, even in the sad incident we are talking about, the bandit who caused the mayhem was captured on closed-circuit television (CCTV) and we have the footage. That is why we are saying that the investigations are at an advanced stage. Sooner, rather than later, the individual will be nabbed.

 

Madam Speaker, my hon. Colleague has also raised the issue of whether there is adequate time to respond in the event of a crisis at a tollgate. We have taken note, and we are putting measures in place to ensure that there are patrols in areas deemed not to have adequate security.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we ask our questions on points of clarification, let us not debate. We should be precise and to the point, and ask only one question per hon. Member.

 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia are certainly very happy to hear that the New Dawn Government will not take steps to instruct the police on whom to arrest for whatever crime that might be alleged to have committed.

 

Madam Speaker, in relation to the violence, people are of the view that the Patriotic Front (PF) was not only a violent party, but also actively promoted and encouraged violence. Part of the process it actually used in doing so was to fuse some of its cadres into the Police Service, and that might partly explain why some of the crimes that were reported to the police and on which dockets were opened were not actively followed up. Is the Government taking any steps to ensure that the PF cadres, who were obviously unprofessional, who were fused into the Police Service for purposes of suppressing citizens are flushed out so that professional police officers who were side-lined or taken to far-flung places as punishment for being professional, are given an opportunity to professionally investigate all the crimes, including the violence that was perpetuated by alleged PF cadres over the past ten years?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, I am not privy to the recruitment of PF cadres in the Zambia Police Service. As I indicated earlier, the Zambia Police Service, at the time, was merely intimidated by the PF leadership into not taking action. As far as I am concerned, good police men and women were merely misled by members of the former Government, who are now in the Opposition and lamenting the lack of professionalism in the Police Service.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I want to applaud the Zambia Police Service and appeal to it, for the good of this country, to continue being professional in the manner it manages national affairs.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, allow me, on behalf of the people of Roan Constituency, to pass our sincere condolences to the gallant officer who was gunned down, and to the ladies who were raped and brutalised on the night in question.

 

Madam Speaker, among the measures that the hon. Minister is taking is that he is going to put in place – When I look at the events that took place on that night; the police officer being gunned down brutally, and the thieves even retaining the appetite to rape the two innocent ladies and committing other acts, they show that the thieves took their time in committing their evil acts.  Is the ministry not considering, among the measures that it is putting in place, installing emergency alert buttons at all tollgates? With the good job that the hon. Minister has done of removing some police officers in the Traffic Section from the roads, is he not also considering putting up permanent tents at tollgates and redeploying some of the traffic officers there?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Roan most sincerely for making these noble suggestions to the Zambia Police Service which, if implemented, will increase security at toll stations. I assure him that the suggestion he has made will be forwarded to the Zambia Police Command and other security agencies for possible implementation.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the two statements he has issued, and the nation has heard him condemn violence. However, he is not the first to do so. In fact, even the President has spoken similar words, especially to the cadres, on several times. The problem is that the violence is not stopping, and these are very difficult times for police officers across the country because they are facing intimidation and violence perpetrated by cadres. So, I sympathise with the police officers across the country, who have lost morale. Motivation among them is so low that a few days ago, we witnessed cadres go to a police post in Luanshya and deface what I would call ‘state property’ in their full view. When that video was making the rounds, the people of Mufulira were asking where the police officers had been when such a thing was happening. So, anything the hon. Minister can do to motivate police officers and raise their morale will be welcome.

 

Madam Speaker, I refer to the incident at High Court when Hon. Shakafuswa’s petition was being heard.

 

Hon. Government Members: What is your question?

 

Mr Mwila: I am asking the question.

 

Madam Speaker, a police officer at the High Court exhibited very high levels of professionalism; he did not only save someone’s life, but also saved his, as he could have lost it at the hands of the cadres. After recently losing a life at the tollgate, we could have also lost him, and I do not think that would have been good. Is the hon. Minister considering any form of motivation or reward for the police officer at the High Court, because rewarding him will raise not only his morale, but also that of the rest of the Police Service, which is at the lowest?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as guided, please, let us not debate as we ask questions. Further, some of the questions are repetitive. Just ask questions, and they will be answered quickly so that other hon. Members also have the opportunity to ask their questions.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security, I state, without any fear of contradiction, that the morale among police officers is at its highest since Independence because they have realised that there is a new dawn that relates to them.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kafwaya: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, in order to ensure that there is professionalism and raise the morale in the police, we, the New Dawn Administration, have started implementing the policy of bringing back any police officer who was humiliated or victimised for being professional, and some of the steps we have already taken are so visible that even those who have no eyes can use binoculars to see, like others do when they are campaigning. Let other people borrow those binoculars and check wherever the President of the Republic of Zambia is, and they will see a certain individual I am not going to mention who was a police officer in Sesheke, but was humiliated and brutalised by the former regime. He is now Aide-de-Camp (ADC) to the President.

 

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: That just shows our commitment to motivating police officers. Other senior police officers who were retired in the national interest have come back in positions higher than those they were in before, and this shows that there is a new dawn and that we will look after any police officer who performs his duties professionally.

 

Madam Speaker, to show that we are very professional, impartial and that we have no hand in whatever happened, if the hon. Member went to Luanshya, he would find that those who defaced the police station were arrested and appeared in court today. We abhor any form of violence, and that, for us, is a motivation for the police to be professional. If anyone of us commits an offence, the police will follow him/her without any hindrance, unlike in the past, when the previous regime celebrated the misery of others. That will not happen again.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.  

 

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

 

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, it is alleged that a firearm and thirty rounds of ammunition was stolen from the crime scene. Since no arrests have been made, it means that the perpetrator is on the loose with thirty rounds of ammunition. What measures have been put in place to protect the people of Kasama, who may encounter the bandit, since that was the second killing incident after the one that occurred at Mount Meru Service Station?

 

Madam Speaker:  That is the manner in which questions are supposed to be asked.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama and appreciate the good example that has been set by the good export we made to our colleagues on your left. The way she has asked the question shows that she is UPND material.

 

Mr Lusambo: Question!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, we have put every measure in place to ensure that the good people of Kasama in the Northern Province and other areas, particularly areas that border other countries, are under surveillance. We are aware that some of the perpetrators of heinous crimes are not Zambian and, immediately they commit an offence, they cross into neighbouring countries. So, we are putting measures in place so that the lives of our people are protected. For example, we have enhanced patrols in those areas and are asking members of the community in the Northern, Luapula, Muchinga and Eastern provinces, where the borders are porous, to be alert and report any suspicious characters to the police.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security for choosing to come and be held to account by the people of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, history is very important, as it is the first step of analysis if one wants to take a good step into the future. Listening to the hon. Minister respond to my hon. Colleagues, the Members of for Zambezi East and Chama South, it seems to me as though there are elements of history that the hon. Minister deliberately forgot. Is it not his party, the United Party for National Development (UPND), that established the ‘Mapatizya Formula’?

 

Mr Nanjuwa: Question!

 

Mr Kafwaya: Is not his party, acting with the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), that perpetrated the ‘Mufumbwe Bloodbath’? Can the hon. Minister kindly say whether the Patriotic Front (PF) participated in the two landmark activities that introduced political violence in our country.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the English say ‘ignorance is bliss’. For the information of Hon. Kafwaya, the ‘Mapatizya Formula’ has nothing to do with violence; it is a calculated strategy to, without violence, ensure that thieves do not steal vote. 

 

Mr Lusambo: Aah!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwiimbu: We can even bring the ingredients of the formula for the hon. Members on your left to use. It is non-violent protection of votes from political opportunists and those who want to use violence.

 

Madam Speaker, at the time of the violence in Mufumbwe, the majority of those who were causing the violence were in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), but they mutated to become members of the Patriotic Front (PF), hence the violence that started when the PF was formed. The gun culture came from there.

 

Mr Nanjuwa: MMD Die-Hard!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: That is why the headquarters of violence under the PF was at Lusaka Intercity Bus Terminus. That is where the armoury was, and the commanders were high-ranking PF officials. No wonder, there were no arrests made. The history of this country is well-articulated.

 

Mr Mundubile: William Banda!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: He is now an angel.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

 

Mr Samakayi: Yes, aah!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: This is a Christian nation, and we allow people to reform.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: He has not been involved in any violence from the time he joined the UPND, just like the other die-hard who mutated and joined the PF.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I do not know whether he is here, but he can speak for himself.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, what action is the ministry intending to take on people who preach tribalism openly, taking into account that it is one of the strings that lead to violence?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I know that this question is outside the ambit of the statement that I was requested to make. However, it is a notorious fact that prior to the elections, a number of people, especially in the PF, made hate speeches, tribal remarks and even threatened violence. Some of them are in this House, and the evidence is there. We heard them say that those who did not hail from a specific area would be killed like cockroaches and rats, and those members of the public are now leaders of the country. So, they must rise to the occasion and apologise to the nation.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: We should not allow leaders like them to be Members of this House without apologising. It is shameful that those who made racial remarks are Members of this House, and they should be ashamed of themselves.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the elaborate response to the point of order in relation to the Kasama saga.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that on that fateful day we lost our gallant officer, he should have been with a colleague who, for whatever reason, did not pitch up for work. What measures have been put in place to ensure that such absentia does not repeat itself to avoid loss of life in a similar circumstance?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I do not want to disclose the outcomes of the ongoing investigations, as I may make a statement that might jeopardise the investigations, but I assure the nation that we will always ensure that there are more than one police officers at all toll stations at any given time. We shall endeavour to protect our workers who have been given the noble task of collecting resources on our behalf. However, I do not want to comment on the other issues.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, what happened to our beloved women in the Northern Province is regrettable. We would not like that to happen to any other woman who works at a tollgate.

 

Madam Speaker, I know that the measures that the hon. Minister has put in place, such as increasing security surveillance, may not be enough. Is he not considering advising the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) to make use of toll cards as a permanent solution to avoid handling of cash at toll gates, which also poses the danger of transmitting the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) because the officers exchange money with every motorist?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I acknowledge the noble proposal of my sister, the hon. Member for Kabwe Central. The suggestion is accepted, but she has to know that in this country, we have not reached the level at which all the people can have electronic devices to pay for services rendered. However, I have taken note. That is one measure I will recommend to my colleagues who are responsible for the money collection exercise.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, we just had a by-election in Kalilele Ward in Solwezi East, and we scooped the position of Councillor. The Patriotic Front (PF) lost, getting only fifty-one votes. That is a sign that the party is going into oblivion.  

 

Madam Speaker, I interacted with the police, our men and women in uniform, at Enoch Kavindele Tollgate, and they requested that they be provided with some kind of accommodation, which could be prefabricated, near the tollgate, opposed to the suggested tents. Could the Government build a good shelter where our women and men in uniform can rest from so that once called upon when there is a criminal activity, they can come from a nearby position. Is the hon. Minister considering accepting the suggestion to provide prefabricated accommodation at tollgates, considering that the tollgates are permanent?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, most of the proposals that are being made are acceptable, but I am not in a position to make a commitment and give an assurance on the Floor of this House. As you may be aware, these issues have to be considered by various ministries. The tollgates are managed by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, the infrastructure was built by the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development while we provide security at the sites. So, we will have a discussion, but the proposal is welcome.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, from the hon. Minister’s statement, we have heard about the Patriotic Front (PF) cadres who were arrested and found with machetes. Further, in Petauke, in the Eastern Province, we witnessed rival PF gangs fighting and causing mayhem to one another. Is the ministry considering taking any action against violent political parties, such as the PF, in order to stop the mayhem, killing and injury among cadres?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, my ministry has no immediate intention of taking action against a particular political party vis-à-vis the violence that is being alleged. However, I assure the nation that we will take appropriate action against individual members of political parties who are involved in violence. As I indicated, we have already taken appropriate action where permissible, like in Kaumbwe, where members of the PF who were found with mapanga were arrested. However, due to the new dawn and new liberties that people are enjoying, within a few hours of incarceration, they were given police bonds, unlike what was happening under the PF, in which when people were arrested, they were only given police bonds or bail after three years. Since we are a party that believes in the rule of law, we have made a commitment that once you are arrested, you must either be given a police bond or taken to court within forty-eight hours. The people of Zambia are breathing fresh air, and they have known that we are now in a new dawn. We are enjoying the second liberation and new independence, and the hon. Leader of the Opposition is very happy.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, I remember that at one time, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government arrested our Republican President, His Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema, for merely questioning why the criminal organisation took thousands of its cadres to Sudan to train on how to perfect violence against citizens, and the majority of the PF cadres are still in possession of unlicensed guns. We are aware that in the last seven years, Zambia was on autopilot. What is the New Dawn Government doing to repossess the guns currently in the hands of PF cadres to avoid violence in this country?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I concur with my brother, Hon. Kasauta Michelo, the Member for Bweengwa, that in the last seven years, the country was on autopilot. Fortunately, the people of Zambia realised that if they allowed an aeroplane to be on autopilot for a long time, it would crash. So, they had to look for a pilot and, on 12^th August, 2021, a pilot was found, and he is steering the aeroplane to safety. That is what we are doing.

 

Madam Speaker, we are aware of the illegal guns in the hands of many people in this country, and the Police Command and I are discussing ways of ensuring that there are no illegal guns in the hands of those who may want to cause anarchy in the country. At an appropriate time, I will come to this House and inform the nation on what we will decide to do.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lusambo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, I wish the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security was the President of the United Party for National Development (UPND), because the way he has spoken on violence and the rule of law is totally different from what his President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, who has, on many for a, encouraged violence. During the last press briefing he had, he told the people of Zambia that the UPND members who are attacking members of other political parties, including the Patriotic Front (PF), in the communities are just –

 

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me to raise this very important point of order on my colleague, the Member of Parliament for Bweengwa, Hon. Michelo Kasauta.

 

Madam Speaker, in terms of Standing Order No. 65, a Member who is debating shall ensure that the information he/she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.

 

Madam Speaker, my hon. Colleague made reference to the Patriotic Front (PF) having sent cadres to train in Sudan, and he made such an important claim without laying facts on the Table. He has implicated another country and an innocent political party that enhanced Christianity in this nation. That Christianity is now being erased. Is the hon. Member for Bweengwa in order to allege that the PF trained a militia in Sudan without making his allegations concrete by proving them and laying documents on the Table?

 

I seek your very serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa asked a question and the was duly answered by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. The hon. Member for Lunte has raised a point of order a bit belatedly. Maybe, I did not recognise him, but the rules of the House or the procedure is that a point of order should be raised contemporaneously; immediately an issue arises. However, for purposes of guidance, and I have already guided the House before on this matter, as we debate, we must debate on factual issues, not assumptions. When we ask questions that attract responses from the other side, we just cause confusion in the House. We should know that the questions we ask will attract a response of some sort, either negative or positive. For us to maintain order in the House, please, let us observe the rules and not make assumptions. Let us not even bring the name of the President into disrepute. Standing Order No. 65 gives direction to hon. Members of Parliament. So, please, as we ask questions, let us bear it in mind.

 

Thank you for that point of order but, next time, please, be fast in raising points of order.

 

The hon. Member for Kabushi may proceed.

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, I congratulated the hon. Minister on being firm on violence and the rule of law. I wish he were President of the UPND, because we need a person like him in this country to combat violence and respect the rule of law.

 

Madam Speaker, President Hakainde Hichilema appointed Mr Siandenge as Commissioner of –

 

Ms Sefulo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, I raise the point of order against the hon. Member, who keeps referring to the President in his debate. This point of order is raised under Standing Order No. 65(2)(f) and (3), which state as follows:

 

“(2)      A member who is debating shall not -

 

(f)        make reference to a person who is not able to defend himself or herself in the House. 

 

“(3)      Except for purposes of rescinding a resolution of the House, a member shall not reflect upon any resolution of the Assembly.”

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member for Kabushi in order to continuously bring the name of the President into his debate?

 

Madam Speaker: Before this point of order was raised, I guided the House that as we debate, we should observe the provisions of Standing Order No. 65. In particular, the hon. Member for Kabushi is referred to Standing Order No. 65(2)(a), which provides that:

 

“(2)      A member who is debating shall not -

 

1. impute any improper motives to the President, Vice-President or any other member;”

 

So, please, hon. Member for Kabushi, as you debate – actually, it is not even a debate; it is questions. You are asking questions on points of clarification on the statements that have been rendered before this hon. House by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. As you ask your questions, please, stick to the points of clarification only. Do not try to bring some disagreements or compare two people, one of whom is not even in this hon. House.

 

Hon. Member for Kabushi, continue, but please bear in mind the guidance.

 

Mr Lusambo: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government appointed a Commissioner Of Police at State House, a Mr Siandenge, who was a fugitive, yet the hon. Minister has talked about the rule of law and respecting our Constitution. We want to know how the people of Zambia will trust the New Dawn Government when it is appointing people who were once fugitives. We do not know when they were cleared by law enforcement agencies, but they have been given positions in this Government.

 

Madam Speaker, we also want the people of Zambia to know how this Government is going to treat UPND, Patriotic Front (PF) and Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) cadres who will find themselves on the wrong side of the law.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, this is why I indicated that the Government of the PF was so obnoxious; some people, free citizens who were supposed to exercise their rights under the Constitution, ended up being fugitives. The freedom fighters have now come back because there is freedom in the country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: They have the right to enjoy themselves like any other citizen. Because of the rule of law, even those who were hiding are now free in this country.

 

Madam Speaker, the person whom the hon. Member has alleged to have been a fugitive has never been convicted of any crime. However, I am aware that under the PF, when some people were ‘die-hard’ members, they were clobbering others on the streets of Lusaka, but nothing happened to them. They are here and are listening, but I have not mentioned anybody’s name.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I state, without fear of any contradiction, that under the PF dispensation, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, was the most brutalised Zambian in this country. He was arrested more than sixteen times on trivial charges, but he has vowed to never revenge and has instructed members of the UPND to let sleeping dogs lie.

 

UPND Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mwiimbu: However, he also said that if you keep stepping on the tail of a dog, as it barks, it might bite you, and that is a fact. So, do not step on the tail of a dog because it will bite you. President Hichilema has indicated, outside and on the Floor of this House, that his Government shall not condone any violence.

 

Madam Speaker, for the first time after 1991, we have a President of the country who has issued instructions against his own members; he has directed that there be no cadreism in markets and bus stations. He has also instructed the police to act professionally and not protect any member of his party or of any other party who will go astray. He has made that commitment, and that is leadership.

 

Madam Speaker, you are aware that as we speak now, there are a number of UPND cadres appearing in court, which is unprecedented. When the PF was in power, none of its cadres who committed heinous crimes were arrested. With your permission, I can narrate the story of two of our people who were shot in Mulobezi by very senior PF members, but nothing has been done so far. Also, our member was shot dead in Kaoma but, to date, we have not targeted anyone. Similarly, our chairman in Mandevu was killed and beheaded, and that is the reason there was chaos at the High Court. When members of the public identified the suspect at the High Court, they resorted to taking the law into their own hands. It is because of the ugly history of the PF; the violence that is being attributed to the party, that members of the public want to take the law into their hands.

 

Madam Speaker, President Hichilema has instructed all of us to never take the law into our hands. He has also guided that violence be not condoned because it will prevent investment from coming into the country. That is why he has said to the people on the Copperbelt and Kabushi Constituency that there is a new dawn and that he will allow them to live peacefully with others without fear of any recrimination. That is the leadership of Hakainde Hichilema, and that is why he has decided to go around the country to preach peace. Today, he is in Chinsali and, on Thursday, he will be in Maala. He will go throughout the country to promote unity and ensure that there is no violence because he believes that we are one Zambia, one nation, not the way it was in the past, when it was one Zambia, one side.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: We want to unite the people. That is why the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabushi, I know, will want to come to your right side very soon, but we will put a barrier so that he does not.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

UPND Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lusambo: Question!

 

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. This is the Jack I knew when he was in the Opposition. The strong stance against violence and the stance by the President to condemn violence are well noted by the people of Zambia, but there could be some concern that I hope even the Provincial hon. Ministers are taking note.

 

Madam Speaker, my question is in relation to the incident that happened at Kalense Tollgate. In 2018, the Government wrote to the ministry to request it to enhance security. Can the Ministry of Transport and Logistics, which is in charge of the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), and the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, which is in charge of the Zambia Police Service, Traffic Section, establish permanent checkpoints at toll plazas to guarantee a twenty-four-hours-a-day, seven-days-a-week presence of both police and RTSA officers so that we can even extend the life span of our road network, bearing in mind that at the toll plazas, there is a span of the road that is reinforced with steel and concrete? Will the hon. Minister be able to go to the files, get that letter and implement the directive?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as I indicated earlier, I do not want to respond to some of the proposals that are being made on the Floor of this House. If there was a discussion pertaining to the issues that are being raised by the hon. Member for Pambashe, I will follow up on the matter. I will have a discussion with my colleague, the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, how we can effect the proposals.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, listening to some of the responses of the hon. Minister this afternoon, to some extent, cadres will not take his condemnation of violence seriously because it appears he has continued to apportion blame for the violence that was previously perpetuated by cadres. He and I know for a fact that both United Party for National Development (UPND) and Patriotic Front (PF) cadres are guilty when it comes to perpetuating of violence.

 

Madam Speaker, at the party level, does the hon. Minister have immediate plans to begin to discipline the cadres who are perpetuating violence? That way, the police will see political parties disciplining their cadres at the party level and will have the impetus to also continue arresting the cadres.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am here to respond as Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. So, I will not respond as a party official. If I am expected to respond as a party official, I will go astray. This is a Parliament of the Republic of Zambia, where we discuss Government issues.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, to begin with, I congratulate my colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF) on retaining the two seats in which there were by-elections. I think it was very important for our democracy to grow and to remain competitive.

 

Madam Speaker, as a son of a policeman, I can imagine the pain the family of the police officer who was short in Kasama must be feeling. When I was only thirteen years old, my family experienced a situation in which my father was almost killed by bandits. I know what it means when a parent is battling for his life due to an attack. Therefore, I earnestly appeal to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to ensure that the family is quickly compensated for its loss to ease the pain.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, arising from the question that has been asked by my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kankoyo, I have made an assumption that he is requesting my office and the Office of the Inspector-General of Police to look after the family of the late policeman. . If my assumption is correct, I would like to assure my colleague that my ministry will look after the family of the policeman who died on duty. It is our responsibility to look after any law enforcement officer who dies in the course of duty, and this is the only way we can motivate the family of that officer, and other officers who protect property and the lives of our people. This is an assurance. 

 

Madam Speaker, I also want to congratulate the Patriotic Front (PF) on winning the Kaumbwe seat. However, it cannot celebrate the winning of Kaumbwe because I have just come out of its bedroom where I was sleeping, covering myself in a Charlie bed; in Mwansabombwe, an area that it has always thought to be a no-go area for us.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Our colleagues are crying, and I can see the tears on the face of Hon. Lusambo, who did not think that we could win in Mwansabombwe.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lusambo: Wait for the Presidential. Tamwakaimyange!

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) left most police stations in the country without vehicles, and that has worsened the security situation in the country, as police officers cannot mount night patrols, even at tollgates. Is the ministry considering buying more vehicles for the police so that the security situation in the country can be improved?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as you are aware, this week, on Friday, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will present the Budget, and it is only through the Budget that such issues will be considered and agreed upon. If hon. Members of this august House deem it fit that we make virements on the Budget, we can make them and provide for the police to buy vehicles.

 

Madam Speaker, I am also aware that the police and other law enforcement agencies have now become very vigilant, and know that they have to recover monies that have been abused or misappropriated. If we make many recoveries through that process, we will make provisions for the police to buy vehicles.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

_______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT IN KANCHIBIYA

 

61. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development:

 

1. what measures the Government is taking to support small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency to participate in the agricultural sector;
2. what measures the Government is taking to ensure that the SMEs are linked to international markets, especially in neighbouring countries; and
3. what measures are being taken to ensure that SMEs, especially those in rural areas, have access to technology to enable them to develop into big industries.

 

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mulenga) (on behalf of the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development (Mr Mubanga)): Madam Speaker, the Government is supporting Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) across Zambia, including those in Kanchibiya Constituency, through the Farming as a Business Programme. programme aims to stimulate a mindset change among micro, small and medium enterprises (MSMEs) in the agricultural sector to begin attaching the entrepreneurial and business aspect to faming activities. The programme is implemented through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), Enterprise Development Division, at the provincial and district levels. The SMEs are trained in product development, that is, quality, packaging, branding, bar-coding, business record keeping, costing and pricing of products, and networking in order to meet market demands where one or two farmers may not be able to do so.

 

Madam Speaker, in addition to the Farming as a Business Programme, the Government, through ZDA and the Zambia Business and Trade Project under the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, facilitates SMEs in the agricultural sector’s access to markets through linkages to various chain stores and large companies. Further, the Buy Zambian Campaign has continued to promote consumption of Zambian products.

 

Madam Speaker, I inform the House that the Government will ensure that SMEs are linked to international markets, especially in the neighbouring countries by helping them to acquire the necessary skills to enable their participation on the export market. This is being done through:

 

1. product development services to ensure that the packaging and the product meet the needs and requirements of regional and international markets. This is done by the ZDA working with other Government agencies that provide quality standards and acceleration services. The agencies include the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS), Zambia Metrology Agency (ZMA) and the Zambia Compulsory Standard Agency (ZCSA). The House may wish to note that these agencies have developed specific standards for SMEs;
2. export-readiness training to enable SMEs to appreciate the procedures and documentation requirements for their products to be competitive on regional and international markets;
3. support their participation in regional trade missions and fares, which are important platforms for SMEs to engage in business-to-business meetings. The House may wish to note that there was a trade mission to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) from 20^th to 22^nd October, 2021, in which twenty-three SMEs participated. The mission was led by the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry; and
4. signing of bilateral and multilateral agreements. Zambia has signed agreements with the DRC and Angola, and is a signatory to the Africa Continental Free Trade Area (ACFTA). These agreements help to improve access to regional and international markets for our SMEs.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, has partnered with technology developers who include CAMCO Equipment Zambia, National Business Technology Centre (NTBC) and the Technical Development Advisory Unit (TDAU) at the University of Zambia to support SMEs with appropriate technologies. The partnerships are aimed at developing appropriate machinery and equipment among other objectives. Additionally, the House may wish to note that there are a number of interventions across the country to support the growth of SMEs. However, the initiatives are fragmented and, as such, it is difficult to measure their impact on SMEs. There is, therefore, a need for collaboration among all institutions supporting SMEs to ensure co-ordination of interventions that are responsive to the needs of SMEs in all sectors of the economy. It is for this reason that the New Dawn Government will prioritise:

 

1. the review of the SME policy framework;
2. the development of a database for SMEs and business service providers in order to facilitate implementation of evidence-based polices and interventions; and
3. enhancement of engagements with chain stores to facilitate business market access of our SMEs. This will be through enhanced agreements with chain stores, other large companies and financial institutions to support supply chains.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lusambo (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, small and medium enterprises (SMEs) are very important in any country. For the country to develop economically, the Government needs to invest in SMEs, and the previous Government, the Government of His Excellency Edgar Chagwa Lungu, invested a lot in SMEs. We also saw diversification take place, including on the Copperbelt Province, from dependence on mining to agriculture, with many SMEs in Lufwanyama, Mpongwe and Misakashi in Mufulira venturing into agriculture. Does the hon. Minister intend to have an indaba for SMEs here in Zambia, in Lusaka or any other town, to educate many Zambians, like those in Kabushi, Solwezi Central and Bweengwa, who are not aware of this important information on SMEs? We have noted in today’s response that the hon. Minister has concentrated on agriculture. Is he promoting any other sectors, apart from agriculture, where SMEs are concerned? Further, how much money has he reserved for the SMEs in our country?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, in a few days’ time, the Budget will be presented and the hon. Member for Kabushi will be well informed on how much resources have been dedicated to the development of SMEs. However, I must place it on record that since the inception of political leadership in our country, for the first time, emphasis and dedication have been put on the development of SMEs in our country by the creation of a ministry dedicated to making sure that SMEs are well taken care of, well managed and supported. In the past, SMEs were just a story being told. I come from the Copperbelt Province, where the hon. Member has indicated there was diversification. However, since time immemorial, the only thing we have seen on the Copperbelt Province is mining; there has been no diversification whatsoever. It was just a song that ended up sounding like a broken record.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, under this administration, I can assure you of diversification that is hands-on and visible, which will be championed by youths, women, the marginalised and the disabled people of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, let me thank the acting hon. Minister, my dear brother, for the elaborate response.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister will agree that when dealing with matters of SMEs, we cannot have a one-size-fits-all solution. The interventions for rural-based SMEs and those for urban-based ones ought to be different. I will give a very clear example of SMEs in our area, Kanchibiya Constituency. The hon. Minister will agree with me that an area like Kanchibiya Constituency has mostly agri-based or agri-driven SMEs, and industries have been identified that focus on cash crops like soya beans, sugar beans, common beans, groundnuts, rice and fish farming. Added to that are agro processing and packaging.

 

Madam Speaker, when you look at the four chiefdoms in Kanchibiya Constituency, you will see that the SMEs there have the capacity to, for example, in Chief Kopa’s area, grow about 300 ha of rice and 150 ha of beans. They can also stock 100 fish ponds. That is fish farming. In Chief Kabinga’s area, they can instal fifty fish cages, and grow 150 ha or 100 ha of beans. The same applies for Chiefs Mpepo’s and Luchembe’s areas. From the information I have given, with SMEs, Kanchibiya is able to harvest 300 ha of soya beans, 300 ha of common beans, about 300 ha of sunflower, 300 ha of rice, 100 ha of sugar beans, 200 fish ponds and fifty fish cages in just one year. The question is: When do the ministries of Small and Medium Enterprises Development, and Commerce, Trade and Industry intend to open offices in Kanchibiya to support SMEs in the district, which have the potential to thrive?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I really appreciate the hon. Member’s concern for the plight of his people.

 

Madam Speaker, the ministry has just been formed and is working in collaboration with all other stakeholders, such as the Ministry of Agriculture, the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, and other ministries that are already well established in areas where SMEs are operating.

 

Madam Speaker, where the ministry will operate, we are not going to just create co-operatives and leave them to run on their own. As the New Dawn Government, we have learnt from what happened in the past, whereby youths or co-operatives were empowered, but they never realised what was hoped for, and there was retention or repossession of what was given for their empowerment. As the New Dawn Government, we want to train the co-operatives in the various skills they need to operate so that once they start operating, they function and succeed. To achieve this, it is not for the New Dawn Government to run the projects alone. We are also asking our brothers and sisters, and hon. Members, even those on the other side of the House, to partner with the Government, because what we are doing is not good for the New Dawn Government only, but also for the people of Zambia.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, what sensitisation programmes has the ministry put in place to ensure that all the small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in far-flung areas are well informed about the much-needed opportunities in the ministry? Usually, the people get information at the tail end and tend to  not benefit. For example, we have seen facilities under the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), but such SMEs do not access information on them. So, how is the ministry ensuring that they have access to information so that there is back-to-back benefit for them, especially given that this is a new ministry?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I really appreciate the concern of the hon. Member.

 

Madam Speaker, I think it is important that we take seriously the concern the hon. Member has expressed, that is, that we need to enhance our sensitisation of the public on how best funds or benefits from the co-operatives can be accessed by the people. However, I want to take his submission or plea to the hon. Members of the House, both in the Government and the Opposition, and say that we have a responsibility to get back to our constituencies and inform our electorates on the need to form co-operatives. We must also inform them on the need to co-exist, regardless of political affiliation, cultural background or religious affiliation, and form co-operatives and file applications through my ministry so that the benefits can be accorded the people. So, this is where everyone comes with apolitical ideologies to support the people, as it is for the good of the nation.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, I congratulate the President on, and continue to thank him for, the creation of the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. The SMEs account for about 40 per cent of employment worldwide. So, their importance cannot be overemphasised.

 

Madam Speaker, the current approach seems to look at the potential that urban SMEs have compared with that of rural SMEs. What programmes have been initiated, especially in the rural parts of Zambia, to make sure that the potential of SMEs in Mwandi is tapped and that the SMEs have access to financial services? I ask this question because we are talking about areas that do not have access to mobile phone networks, but have the potential to grow. 

 

Madam Speaker, in as much as we have this ministry, the emphasis has been too much on the urban areas, but the importance of its also looking at the rural constituencies cannot be overemphasise because this cannot be a programme that is implemented by combining the rural and the urban areas. We need to realise that the ones who need the services or sensitisation more are the people in rural areas. So, what plans does the ministry have for disseminating information to the rural constituencies, tapping the potential from there and giving the people there access to the financial services that the ministry is planning for?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mwandi for expressing a good concern.

 

Madam Speaker, like I said earlier, hon. Members have a responsibility to disseminate information on the newly created Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development into our constituencies. Other than that, the reason I am even standing here and acting as Minster in this new ministry is because my hon. Colleague has taken further the approach of reaching even the far-flung areas; not only the urban areas, but also the rural communities. He joined the President’s entourage to Chinsali and will reach out to the civil society, and meet the local government leadership and inform it on the establishment of the ministry.

 

Madam Speaker, I reiterate the need for Parliamentarians, regardless of their affiliations, to get back to their constituencies and inform the people of the need to set up co-operatives and be part of this endeavour. Other than the Parliamentarians, there is no one influential enough to better do the job of informing their constituents on the need for co-operatives.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, the reality on the ground, especially for us who represent rural constituencies, is that our people have challenges that mostly emanate from the administrative requirements that small and medium enterprises (SMEs) have to meet in terms of registering with the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA), the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), the Workers Compensation Fund Control Board and many other statutory institutions, including the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). To cap it up, the SMEs also need to comply with Know Your Customer (KYC) requirements of the Bank of Zambia in opening bank accounts.

 

Madam Speaker, since the spirit of the question asked by the hon. Member for Kanchibiya is targeted at how much support the New Dawn Administration will provide to ensure that these SMEs tap into these pronouncements that we are making, as the Government, how much support will be given to the would-be SMEs, especially start-ups – (inaudible) bank accounts do not have the resources required for all the administrative requirements that I have catalogued? Does the policy address the issues that I have raised, because those are the questions coming from the people on the ground?

 

Madam Speaker: I do not know if the hon. Minister got the question?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I think I got the question from the hon. Member.

 

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government wants to make doing business in Zambia very easy not only for large-scale investors, but also for SMEs. I agree with the hon. Member that in the past, the application and registration procedure for SMEs or just start-up businesses was so bureaucratic that people gave up before they could even realise their dream of setting up a business. As I stand here, I am wearing two jackets; one from the Ministry of Commerce and Trade and Industry, and the other, the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, two ministries that are conjoined. Under the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, we are working on identifying the best modalities for lowering the cost of doing business and reducing the number of licences that a business needs before it can be registered.

 

Madam Speaker, it is only here, in Zambia, where people need between seven and fifteen certificates before they can register a business, and as a result, many businesses fail to see the light of day. As for SMEs, we are trying to structure an application system and project proposal that are easy. Our interest is not the English that is written, but the ideas behind the project that the SMEs want to execute. This is where, again, I call upon the hon. Members to take keen interest in seeing what their constituents are submitting in applying to access funds under the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC).

 

Madam Speaker, I have heard the hon. Member express concern over access to funds. Under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, we are working on modalities for making access to funds easy for our SMEs, and the hon. Minister will come and explain this better. What I can assure the hon. Member is that the New Dawn Government is committed to seeing SMEs and co-operatives succeed. We have the Vision 2030, in which our target is to graduate to a middle income State by 2030. However, we cannot achieve that target if SMEs are not supported. Therefore, I inform the hon. Members of this House, with a lot of confidence, that we are dedicating our utmost commitment to SMEs, of course, with their valuable advice, which we take seriously.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, the nation is certainly very excited about the decision to create a ministry that is going to specifically grow small and medium enterprises (SMEs). However, two of the challenges that I want to remind us of this afternoon is the lack of access to finance, which the hon. Minister has already touched on, as well as the many and rigorous regulations that are applicable across many sectors, be they in consultancy or manufacturing, which SMEs find to be a huge barrier to entry in, and growing of, a businesses. Is the Government or the ministry going to carry out a comprehensive review of both the financial and operational regulations in order to make it easy for SMEs to access finance, be able to operate and grow their businesses?

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, we understand the challenges that, in the past, were presented not only to the SMEs, but also to the whole value chain in the procurement system. The system favoured just a few people, but the Government is revisiting the whole system so that it can benefit the majority of start-up businesses, SMEs and co-operatives, and give them access to money. In due time, when the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning comes to make his submissions on how even the CEEC will be run, it will be evident that we are committed to making it easy for SMEs to access finances by revisiting the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) system. The system is going to be tailored in such a way that SMEs will have access to the resources they need to develop.

 

Madam Speaker, on the other aspect, a question that has been consistently arisen, that is, what we have done to increase awareness, the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, in collaboration with the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, is planning to increase the number of sensitisation programmes by engaging agencies like PACRA, ZABS and the Business Regulatory Review Agency (BRRA) in informing people how to register co-operatives and participate in the business system of Zambia.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, let me commend the hon. Minister for his thorough presentation and responses. As a pragmatist, let me also commend President Hichilema for creating the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, which is supposed to have a presence on the ground; not just being domiciled in Lusaka, but also in the rural parts of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, is the ministry or the Government intending to come up with a technology toolkit for rural-based SMEs, which could include matters of pricing, market linkages, value addition, weather patterns, et cetera? This is very important, especially as a build up to what another hon. Member of Parliament had asked about, that is, if we are going to move away from the ‘one-size-fits-all’ approach. The challenges of an SME in a rural part of Zambia are totally different from those of an SME in urban Zambia, and the earlier the ministry comes up with a package for rural areas, be they in Sioma or Kanchibiya, the better. Doing so would also help in ensuring that ministries are not only present along the line of rail. We want to see and feel their presence in rural parts of Zambia. Are there plans to create SME packages for rural areas, which will include technology toolkits?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, as the New Dawn Government, we are alive to the fact that the challenges faced are different based on the locations; the challenges in urban areas are different from those in Mpika, where I come from. What we are doing is working on a tailor-made approach to packaging SMEs based on areas where they are. There are areas that need borehole water and others that do not. There are also areas that need the setting up of cotton plantations and others that need the setting up of shops.

 

Madam Speaker, our focus is not only on the urban areas, but on the whole country. In this regard, I inform the House that, under the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, our presence will be felt soon. The distribution of the money to be accessed by SMEs will be well elaborated by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning as he presents the 2022 Budget. One thing I can assure the House of is that the structure of the CEEC will be non-segregative. Developing a country is not only based on the urban areas. We want to reach resources out across the whole country, not only in Lusaka.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

 

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, the people of Kankoyo understand very well that one cannot create jobs without creating businesses. Hence, we appreciate the opportunity created by the New Dawn Government to promote small and medium enterprises (SMEs). In this regard, the people of Kankoyo have already registered a co-operative that is trading as Kankoyo Investment, which has also obtained a permit to export sugar, maize and mealie meal to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). What they are waiting for at the moment is to know how much the New Dawn Government will support the SMEs to have working capital.

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, before I go on to respond on how much working capital has been allocated for SMEs, I need to mention that, like I said in my earlier response, the New Dawn Government is very committed to enhancing the activities of SMEs not only locally, but also internationally. During his address for the Official Opening of the Thirteenth National Assembly, the President gave directions on how we can view our colleagues in the neighbouring Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) as trading partners. As Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, I even took the initiative, under the leadership of my Permanent Secretary (PS), to lead a delegation of twenty-three SMEs from across the country’s urban and rural communities into the DRC not only for access to business, but also for business partnerships with our friends in the DRC. From the twenty-three who have come, I can confidently tell you that seven of them are happy to have merely signed partnership documents, which I will explain in a ministerial statement if authorised.

 

Talking about capital, Madam Speaker, like I have said, I need not pre-empt how much money has been dedicated to SMEs because on Friday, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will present the Budget, and I assure hon. Members that it is a good allocation. We are committed to improving the way of doing business and the financial standing of SMEs.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) seems to be a good market for most crops that we produce in the country. Could the hon. Minister inform the nation whether there is anything that the Government is doing to formalise trade in crops between Zambia and the DRC so that small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in Kanchibiya and other parts of the country can be linked to buyers from the DRC?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, sent me to have a meeting with my Congolese counterpart, the Minister of External Trade and, two weeks ago, we signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) between the two countries, in which we have been asked to supply more than 6,000 metric tonnes of mealie meal and more than 2,000 metric tonnes of maize grain. It is now up to us to support our SMEs in working towards the fulfilment of that obligation.

 

Madam Speaker, as the New Dawn Government, we did not just stop at signing the MoU to supply maize and mealie meal to the DRC, but also went ahead and signed another MoU in which SMEs will be given priority by our brothers and sisters in the DRC in supplying commodities ranging from sugar, cement, timber in form of processed material and roofing sheets, among many other goods, because we are committed to providing an enabling environment and negotiating on behalf of our SMEs for them to have access to business not only locally, but outside the country as well.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I listened to the answers of the hon. Minister. He has talked about the funds and how the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development will support small businesses through the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA). Obviously, the establishment of the ministry is important, and I strongly support it. However, there are funds at the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts, and the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, through the Citizen Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). There is also the Buy Zambian Campaign, but local products are expensive on shop shelves. How is the ministry going to ensure that small businesses manage to get their products into our shops so that the locally made goods become cheaper in our shelves before we can even think of exporting? If that happens, obviously, the economy will grow. There are traders under the ZPPA, farmers and youths. So, where is the ministry going to start from in ensuring that the programme has an impact on our economy?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member, who is my elder brother from way back in Mufulira.

 

Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government is committed to lowering the cost of doing business in this country. Our focus is on making sure that our products are competitive not only locally, but also as we externalise them through exports. As you may be aware, in the past regime­ – I want to avoid making references, but we just need to talk about history. Our focus is to restructure the taxation and registration systems. The hon. Member might agree with me that the taxation system that we have taxes our people through the Value Added Tax (VAT) when they export goods, and this increases the cost of doing business with our neighbours.    

 

Madam Speaker, you may be very well informed that our maize and mealie meal are very expensive in the DRC than South African and Namibian maize, which passes through our country, because of the taxes that we charge on our products. For this reason, the New Dawn Government is trying to lower the cost of doing business for our people so that the prices of their products are very competitive not only on our shelves, but also as we export them. So, my answer to the hon. Member’s question is that our focus is on making our products more competitive than other products that we receive and send away.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, it is, indeed, a great thing to have this ministry. However, one of the biggest challenges that the small and medium enterprise (SME) sector faces in Zambia is the competition between local products and imported ones. My question is: Does the ministry intend to use a multi-sectoral approach in growing rural SMEs? What I mean is that, for example, we have a lot of potential to grow potatoes and onions but, at the same time, instead of our SMEs supplying the commodities, we allow imports. The same goes for rice in the Western Province. Research shows that all types of rice and cashew nuts can be grown in the Western Province, but imports are allowed. Therefore, there is a need for a multi-sectoral approach involving the Ministry of Agriculture, where when you look at the agricultural calendar and see that the production of potatoes and onions is high in the country, there must be a restriction on imports. Having had an illustrious career in working with SMEs, I know that this has been a major problem. Is the ministry looking at protecting local SMEs by creating market demand through limiting imports?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his concern.

 

Madam Speaker, as the Government, our focus is on creating ability in our producers to produce more than is required for local consumption. Lessons were learnt not very long ago, when the past Administration banned the importation of vegetables during the opening of the Edgar Chagwa Lungu (ECL) Mall in Kitwe and, barely two weeks later, we ran out of vegetables, potatoes and carrots in our shops and hastily lifted the ban. Now, the Government wants to increase production capacity and make our products competitive. When the ministries of Agriculture, and Commerce, Trade and Industry see that we are able to sustain ourselves, then, competitive measures will definitely be put in place to support our local industries, which must grow. It is important for any reasonable or caring government to protect its local industries, and that is our focus as well. However, as we do that, we need to encourage competition and build capacity to grow so that we sustain ourselves.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, I am worried about my district and other newly created districts. As I speak, there is no skills training centre in my district where my people and people in other districts can learn skills to run their businesses. Will the new ministry, in conjunction with other ministries, build skills training centres in those districts?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, this Government is very concerned about skills development in our country and has created the Ministry of Technology and Science, which is headed by Hon. Felix Mutati. In that ministry, skills development, skill identification and skills training are prime, and the establishment of skill training centres in each district is a critical part of the critical points on our agenda. To that effect, the New Dawn Government is committed to making sure that each district runs its own affairs in terms of entrepreneurial activities by ensuring that business activities and contractual jobs are done by the locals in each district. To do this, we need to improve the local capacity in skills development, and the hon. Minister of Technology and Science will issue a comprehensive statement on how we are going to roll out that activity.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, the role that small and medium enterprises (SMEs) play in the socio-economic development of any nation cannot be overemphasised. Therefore, I am happy that the New Dawn Government has created a ministry to be in charge of SMEs.  However, I am alive to the fact that previous Governments also tried to empower SMEs so that they can contribute to the development of this country, but very little impact has been made in that regard. My question is: Has the New Dawn Government looked at the factors that have led to the poor performance of SMEs in this country despite the fact that support has been provided the SMEs in the past? I have in mind the co-operatives, which have performed poorly in this country despite the support that has been given to them. What is the New Dawn Government’s point of departure in ensuring that it is not business as usual in terms of supporting SMEs?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government has undertaken a review of why the so-called SMEs did not perform to expectations in the past, and is trying to delink politics from empowerment because it has come to understand that in the past, co-operatives were formed not to empower the majority of the citizens, but a few selected individuals who were already privileged. The other reason was a lack of skills training for SMEs or co-operative bearers. The New Dawn Government’s focus is on those engaged in agriculture. So, we need to assign agricultural extension officers to train the SMEs in the agricultural sector. We also want those engaged in other activities, such as construction or other businesses, to undergo a certain training system that will give them the ability to run their businesses and succeed. Yet another element that we cannot be shy to mention that caused the underperformance of SMEs was corruption, which reached the level at which it became the norm. We are trying to detach from business activities such vices that inhibit them from growing. There will be transparency in how we conduct ourselves in the running of SMEs, and that is why the Government, including Opposition hon. Members of Parliament, will work together in a very transparent manner.

 

Madam Speaker, the CEEC will not serve a few people and disadvantage the rest; what we will have on the left is exactly what we will have on the right. There is an ongoing process of polishing the system. Like I mentioned, we have taken note of the issues that made the system fail in the past, and we are trying to make corrections.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF UNIVERSITY IN THE NORTH-WESTERN PROVINCE

 

62.  Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga) (on behalf of Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe)) asked the Minister of Education:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a university in the North-Western Province; and

 

1. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, yes, the Government has plans to construct a university in the North-Western Province.

 

Madam Speaker, the implementation of the plans will depend on the availability of funds.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Phiri (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, what criteria are used to determine where a university should is built? I ask this because there are no public universities in some provinces, including the Eastern Province. Further, are there plans to build universities in regions where there are no such facilities?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, even in the North-Western Province, there is no university. So, there are plans. A long time ago, the Government indicated that it envisaged building universities in every province. So, generally speaking, those plans are there.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, the response of the hon. Minister, at first, appeared very comforting for the people of the North-Western Province. I even saw the Chief Whip smile. However, as soon as he said, “… depends on the availability of funds”, the statement extinguished all the hope the people of the North-Western Province had. Does his statement mean that as long as the funds are not available, the people of the North-Western Province will not have a university?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, actually, the Chief Whip is very happy with the answer because he knows, certainly, that when one says, “… when funds are available”, it means that at some point, the funds will be made available. So, the funds will be there, but the implementation of the project will depend on when they will be there. Funds will be there because we will look for them. You heard how the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry was exuding. So, we shall get the funds, but the ‘when’ is the key word.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answers he is providing, including, “… when funds are available”. I am comfortable with that answer. What is important is that when we get there, the money is provided and the project implemented.

 

Madam Speaker, successive Governments have been promising a university to the province since the 1970s, when I was in secondary school, and there was talk of setting up an agricultural university in there. In the recent past, during the failed project that is the Patriotic Front (PF), there was talk of ‘Kabompo University’ which, I think it was supposed to be a sciences university. I did not hear the hon. Minister refer to it. Instead, he is now talking about a ‘North-Western University’. How is the Government harmonising its programmes with those it inherited and the promises made in the past by the hon. Minister’s colleagues? Now that there is talk of ‘North-Western University’, could the hon. Minister come out clearly and indicate to the people of the North-Western Province whether that is the trajectory that we are taking, considering the promises that were made to the people of the province in the past?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I also recall that there was talk of the Government constructing a university in the North-Western Province, a college of technology in Kabompo, and the process that was begun for the college was the contraction of a loan. In fact, three loans were contracted, the other two being for a college of mathematics and sciences in Nalolo and a college of applied arts in Katete, respectively. We are talking about a US$5.4 million loan from the Arab Bank for Economic Development in Africa (BADEA), a US$10 million loan from the Abu Dhabi Fund for Development (ADFD) and a US$10 million loan from the Oil Producing and Exporting Countries (OPEC). The loans were signed in December, 2012, and August, 2013. Another loan amounting to US$13.2 million was contracted from the Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development. These were signed but, because the Government did not provide counterpart funding, they were cancelled.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, considering that university education depends a lot on high quality lecturers and professors like the hon. Minister, who were trained through the Staff Development Fellowship (SDF) Programme, is the ministry considering developing high quality staff for the universities that are planned for in the North-Western Province, the Southern Province, the Eastern Province and other regions that do not have public universities? I ask this question because competent lecturers will determine the quality of the product that we are going to get from these universities.

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, yes, many of our public universities still get highly trained lecturers from the Staff Development Fellowship (SDF) Programme, and it is our view that all universities must get people who are hands-on so that we have quality products. So, yes, we will do that, and we have been doing that. I know many universities are still doing that.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Dr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, it is quite saddening to hear the hon. Minister of Education get so concerned about when funds will be available. As one of the hon. Members of Parliament from the North-Western Province, I know that the province is quite rich. If anything, revenue is generated from the province and spent elsewhere, such as in the Eastern Province, where there is one of the most classic technical schools; the Mulakupikwa University; and in other parts of the country, where there are other universities. If only we could get a small percentage of the revenue collected from the North-Western Province, we would build that university within a short time. There are resources in the province, such as rosewood, gold from Kasenseli Mine, and copper from  Lumwana and Kansanshi mines, which are all sources of revenue. So, I appeal to the hon. Minister of Education – Actually, I am lobbying the ministry to consider getting even just 0.0002 per cent from the revenue generated in the province and using that to build a university in the North-Western Province.

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I really get what the hon. Member of Parliament is saying about the North-Western Province. We all know that the country has not done much in the North-Western Province in terms of development, and I think that it is only fair that the province gets a fair share of the revenue the country collects. Above all, everyone knows that the President said that this Government will develop the country in an equitable manner. So, all those who feel like the hon. Member should know that equity has now come and that every part of this country will have a fair share of the resources the Government generates. I think that is the important issue to look at. Of course, where a few things were not done right, in order to realise equity, more will be done. However, the general thinking is that different parts of the country must benefit in an equitable manner.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, I hope the hon. Minister will leave a good legacy in the Ministry of Education because of his involvement in university education. That said, coming to the question of whether the North-Western Province will get a university soon, is the ministry considering using the public-private partnership (PPP) mode, which would work to the advantage of the Government and enable the hon. Minister to leave a good legacy? Will the ministry use that model to build various universities that are, obviously, eventually going to become Government property?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, since the agreements I talked about were cancelled and we are now going back to the drawing board, the thinking is that public-private partnerships (PPPs) are the hallmark, as they are used almost everywhere because the resource envelops of governments are dwindling. So, where we can be fast in doing things by using that model, like in Kabompo, I think that is the way we would want to go. 

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, the people of the North-Western Province are not going to encumber this Government with the failures of past Governments, and we hear the hon. Minister when he says that the Government will construct a university in the province when resources become available. Is it fair to say that we will see the foundation laid in two years’ time?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, a foundation requires money, too, does it not? So, when the money is available, we shall dig the foundation.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

DEVELOPMENT OF SMALL AND MEDIUM ENTERPRISES IN KABWE CENTRAL

 

63. Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development:

 

1. whether the Government has any empowerment programmes for small and medium enterprises (SMEs) in Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency;
2. if so, what the plans are; and
3. when the plans will be implemented.

 

 Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the Government has no empowerment programmes specifically for Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency. However, through the CEEC, it has continued to implement empowerment programmes in various districts across the country from which the SMEs in Kabwe Central can also benefit. The Government plans to continue to implement empowerment programmes, including the Value Chain Development Programme, across the country.

 

Madam Speaker, under the Value Chain Development Programme, the commission identifies and prioritises value chains in each of the ten provinces based on the comparative advantages each province may have in terms of abundance of natural resources or agricultural output suitable for value addition investment. The projects rolled out so far are the Dairy Value Chain Project in the Southern, Muchinga, the North-Western and the Copperbelt provinces; and the Beef Value Chain Project in the Southern Province. In addition, the commission plans to establish one industrial yard in the Central Province to provide a modern working environment for SMEs, enhance formalisation of SME businesses and provide an array of business development services targeting metal fabrication, wood processing, agro processing, auto mechanics, gemstone processing, energy, and information and communication technology (ICT) solutions. Industrial yards are an ingredient in the industrialisation and job creation agenda through light manufacturing and enterprise development.

 

Madam Speaker, the CEEC has, with financing from the African Development Bank (AfDB), established eight industrial yards in seven provinces. Subject to the availability of funds, the commission plans to establish industrial yards in Muchinga, the Southern and Central provinces under Phase II of the project. These provinces were not covered in Phase I due to limited funds. The SMEs in Kabwe Central Constituency can benefit from this initiative, as it is not limited to a particular area.

 

Madam Speaker, plans to establish an industrial yard in the Central Province and to roll out the Value Chain Development Programme across the country will be implemented when funds are mobilised.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, I thank the Acting hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development for the elaborate answers. On the first question was asked, we had a lot of information from him. However, I have one appeal to make. The hon. Minister has mentioned that most SMEs will get their help through the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). However, I know that, sometimes, SMEs do not thrive because of a lack of, or improper, incubation. Since we know that if SMEs are handled properly, they are the economic engines of every country, is there any programme to train officers of the CEEC in how to handle the delicate SMEs so that they handle them well and avoid creating the casualties who are falling out of business without adding value to the economy of the country?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker the New Dawn Government has taken SMEs and co-operatives seriously as part of the engine to unlocking the potential of graduating Zambia into a middle income State or nation. Therefore, training is key not only to the co-operatives, but even to the trainers who will be training the SMEs. As we understand, training is an ongoing process. I will take the request that has been made by the hon. Member seriously and implement it through my ministry.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, the spirit of the question is about the people of Kabwe Central Constituency benefitting just like other people in this country, including the people of Zambezi East, whom I represent. In his response, the hon. Minister has belaboured the point about the use of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). However, looking at its performance, especially under the Patriotic Front (PF) regime, a report in the public domain shows how the institution has lamentably failed to recover money disbursed to citizens who were purporting to run businesses. I am privileged to have reviewed the performance of that parastatal body because I am a member of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies. Now that we expect some funds, the hon. Minister has come back to this House with the same song of using the same CEEC without explaining how the institution has been reformed and the policies have been reformulated to ensure that the finances that will be disbursed are secured and that everybody has equal opportunity to access them. Does the hon. Minister envisage himself coming back to this House with a clear policy statement on how the CEEC will be reformed into a meaningfully performing institution to enhance small and medium enterprise (SME) development in this country?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, before I even respond to the question, I need to make clear one concern that the hon. Member has expressed, namely that I have returned with the same name, CEEC, that has lamentably failed. However, even if we changed the name from CEEC to some other fancy or more befitting name by the hon. Member’s standard, if management is not prudent with the resources, the institution will still lamentably fail. This time, however, the CEEC will be led by a focused and dedicated leadership that is committed to seeing the SMEs and co-operatives perform to the standard that is expected.

 

Madam Speaker, in responding to an earlier question, I made it very clear that the commission is undergoing serious reforms that will make it people-centred, SME-centred and co-operative-centred, not individual-centred, corruption-centred or centred on duping the people out of what is rightfully theirs.

 

Madam Speaker, I should overemphasise, for the sake of the hon. Member, that the CEEC will be managed transparently by engaging all stakeholders. Further, the commission will train the co-operatives before they are funded, and it will review the project proposals of the various co-operatives, and guide the co-operatives on how to execute their business portfolios to the gain of the country, irrespective of their origin.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I can see that the approach that the Government is taking is going to be more beneficial than what we have seen in the past. However, I think that for this programme’s benefit to the people of Zambia to be more universal, we need to get to the lower levels or the rural areas of this country so that we employ a bottom-up approach. As things stand, it looks like the people are waiting for the Government to tell them the activities that they should be engaged in. Is the Government thinking of going into the chiefdoms to help people identify their resources endowment, which they are used to, so that they are able to engage in various businesses?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for not only asking a question, but also guiding my ministry.

 

Madam Speaker, I feel that the guidance he has given us, that of us engaging the traditional and other leaders in respective areas where SMEs and co-operatives operate is critical, and I believe I do not even need to speak much about it. Suffice it for me to say that I think we will take this route.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, what is the ministry doing to ensure value addition by the various groups and communities that produce many products, but may fail to access the market? For example, on Kabwe Road, we have a lot of watermelons and honey. Similarly, in my constituency, Mbabala, we have a lot of sweet potatoes, groundnuts, maize, et cetera. What we do not seem to get from the ministry is how it can mobilise groups like those who sell watermelons to add value to their produce so that they can enhance their products’ chances of having good market there and earning the farmers a bit more money. What is the ministry doing to help in such instances?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, earlier, I said that the Government has the responsibility to create an enabling environment for our SMEs and co-operatives. That includes business linkages like the ones we have started creating. As Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, I took the step to engage the hon. Minister for External Trade in the DRC in an initiative to link our SMEs and co-operatives with the business community in the DRC and the Congolese market, and that has started happening. Furthermore, in terms of value addition to the products that will be produced by our SMEs and cooperative, two weeks ago, I stood in this august House and notified its hon. Members that we were on course in building a food processing plant in Mwinilunga that would add value crops produced in our country, such as pineapples and mangoes. It is to this value addition set up that co-operatives are meant to sell their produce. As a Government, we are committed to making co-operatives to not only produce farm products and sell them to industries, but to also make finished products, and sell to the chain stores and the export market. So, the Government engage in negotiations for business linkages on behalf of SMEs.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, we all appreciate and understand the fact real empowerment is giving people opportunities for making money, but the challenge we seem to have in Mufulira is that the Government gives export permits to millers and to co-operatives and, at the end of day, the miller will offload the maize or mealie meal on the export market at a cheap price than the co-operative, which has to buy the product from the miller. Is the Government considering slowly phasing out the issuance of export permits to producers so that we do not kick out our people from the supply value chain?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, in as much as that question would have been better answered by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, I will mention that as much as we are trying to create business opportunities for SMEs and co-operatives, we do not have to kill already existing businesses. As a Government, our focus is on supplementing already existing businesses and creating more businesses by creating an enabling environment for new entrants into the business sector to have ease of entrance, and produce goods and services at very competitive prices.

 

Madam Speaker, we need to encourage large-scale production of cash crops that we can export. However, that cannot be done at the expense of the already existing business houses. As a Government, we have the mandate and responsibility to make sure that the new entrants into the business sector have equal opportunities as, if not more than, established businesses.

 

Madam Speaker, withdrawing licences from the already existing business houses would be a minus because when we withdraw licences, jobs are lost when we are supposed to create jobs; businesses will be closed when we are supposed to create more of them.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Dr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, the people of the North-Western Province, Solwezi East in particular, are excited about the small and medium enterprises (SMEs.) That said, the hon. Minister has said that skills training is important. Has the ministry, therefore, adopted an open-door policy or is it working in isolation? I bear in mind the fact that the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) is supposed to be one of the key vehicles for transmitting the skills that are needed for the development of SMEs. The authority is noted to be a world-class technical education, vocational and entrepreneurship training system that contributes to the economic development of Zambia through the provision of reliable skills.

 

Madam Speaker, I have noticed that in the hon. Minister’s presentation, there is no mention of TEVETA, and there is lamentation by the people at TEVETA that they have been knocking on the ministry’s doors, but it has been quite difficult for them to engage the ministry. Does the ministry intend to involve TEVETA in transferring skills so that we do not end up like our friends in the previous regime who gave empowerment funds to youths and the youths bought busses that we longer see on the roads? Instead, we just see the youths with a lot money, with some sitting on it, playing around and flashing it all over, but with no skills to circulate it or grow more and more businesses. Could the hon. Minister just comment on that.

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I think this is a well-thought-out question from the hon. Member.

 

Madam Speaker, in as much as we are new, we are not going to create any training institutions to override what already exists. We need support in achieving our dream of making SMEs and co-operatives business entities that contribute meaningfully to the growth of our economy, and we already have established institutions like TEVETA. It is from them that we are going to tap knowledge and develop our SMEs. Apart from TEVETA, we also engage the industry, statutory bodies and agencies. In my ministry, for instance, there are many agencies that look at standards and regulations, and all of them will have to come together and see how best we can help our SMEs to grow. It is lamentable to learn that TEVETA has been knocking on our doors, but we have not responded to its knocking. I advise that we meet with it. I have not received any call from it which I have ignored, but we, as a ministry, will reach out to it to see how best we can work together, because it is an integral part in the realisation of our dream.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, in line with the 20 Per Cent Sub-Contracting Policy, how is the Government making sure that local small and medium enterprises (SMEs) access sub-contracts from the bigger private businesses and the ongoing big projects in Zambia, especially those being implemented by the Chinese?

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, this is a very important question that I passionately wish to respond to.

 

Madam Speaker, in the governance system that we had in past, we had given to Zambians 20 per cent of all the construction contracts or should I say ‘business’ in this country. However, if in your country, all you can settle for is 20 per cent, where will you ever get 50 per cent or 100 per cent? The New Dawn Government is very committed to growing the business portfolio of our local people and, if it cannot give 100 per cent to them, it will give either 50 per cent or slightly less than that. We cannot settle for 20 per cent. However, I know some people will wait for the announcement of the Budget and then attack us on that one. The Budget was already drafted and only minute changes may be seen. However, come next year, when we present a Budget that will be fully our own, it will show our focus on increasing the share of Zambian businesses in Government contracts. We cannot settle for 20 per cent in our country.

 

Madam Speaker, if I may explain further, forty-eight hours ago, I returned from a trip to Turkey, where I met several investors who hope to invest in our country. In our discussions I was very clear and categorical in stating that we want investments in the value addition industry and that we want the Turkish investors to partner with Zambian businesses. For a long time, we have seen businesses in which foreigners hold almost 100 per cent or 90 per cent shares against 10 per cent shareholding for Zambians.

 

Madam Speaker, I assure you that even the foreign or European investors were still excited and saying, “We have the money and you have the resources. We are willing to partner with you at reasonable shareholding”. So, 20 per cent is not what the New Dawn Government wants to settle for; we want more because God has blessed us with more. If we cannot get 100 per cent or 50 per cent in our country, then, Zambians will die poor, and that is not what we want.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I really want to find out if the Government has a deliberate and comprehensive policy on decentralisation of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) to the lowest level. I ask this question because there is so much potential around the country. In Feira, we have this common fruit known as masau, which has the potential to be made into various juices that would be not only sweet to drink, but also highly nutritious and therapeutic even for such diseases as Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19). So, I want to know whether there are deliberate policies to get to the lowest level of the country and detect all the potential.

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has always said that he wants to decentralise and take money from Lusaka to all the corners of this country. It might not be seen in the coming Budget that the CEEC will be decentralised, and I do not want to pre-empt the first Budget that will be wholly crafted by the New Dawn Administration. However, you will see in it how decentralisation will be done and how money will be taken to the constituencies through the CEEC that the hon. Member is talking about, and Members of Parliament, be they in the Opposition or the Ruling Party, will have control over the CEEC and identification of projects that will improve the living standards of the people in their communities.

 

Madam Speaker, to summarise my answer to the hon. Member’s concerns, yes, there is a deliberate policy to reform the CEEC by taking the money directly into the constituencies rather than what we seen today, whereby the CEEC offices are only situated in Lusaka.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that one of the measures the ministry is putting in place is the simplification of the application form, meaning that the form that is being used currently by SMEs to apply for access to funds is a bit difficult. To the contrary, I will suggest that this one of the reasons the SMEs have failed to perform is that the selection process has been simplified to the point where we do not pick really deserving SMEs. Much as we would want to support our SMEs, I think it is important that we pick those that can deliver when given support. Further, the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), in my view, cannot perform to the expectation of the people largely because it is seen as a politicised entity. Why can the Government not consider partnering with commercial banks in the selection or support of SMEs so that we see proper and bankable business proposals being forwarded? The Government can retain the role of creating a conducive business environment and the much-needed market linkages to support SMEs so that they can succeed.

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, that is a very good submission by the hon. Member. However, we cannot run away from the reality that the application system, which I have looked at, as I have, in the past, helped a few youths from my constituency in Chingola, to apply for funds using the forms, is too complicated, and the applications have been sent back at several stages on the claim that the project proposals were not comprehensive enough.

 

Madam Speaker, like I said in an earlier response, we want to craft the application system in such a way that it does not only focus on how good the English somebody writes is, but more so on the details of the business concept, and builds on from that. I cannot run away from the reality that the hon. Member has just referred to, namely corruption being at the centre of the CEEC. Like I mentioned, in the past, there was corruption and bias, and CEEC was used as a conduit for the same few selected individuals to have access to resources. That is why the New Dawn Government is trying to move the administration of CEEC programmes away from the centre in Lusaka to the constituencies, where the intended beneficiaries are based. Further, in the disbursement of money, my Government wants to run an administration in which there will be cashless transactions through e-Commerce and electronic means of doing business. That can only be done with well-established business entities like banks.

 

Madam Speaker, we cannot run away from the truth that the way the system is today, not every youth, woman or man can easily draft a business concept that will be easily accepted. So, we still have to redesign the application process to make it so basic that the business idea is identified.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, may I know whether small and medium enterprises (SMEs) that will be involved in production and able to produce more than what is required for use within the country will be assisted by Government institutions to export or they will just be allowed to export directly to other countries, as individual SMEs.

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, we are a responsible Government. therefore, it is not our job to run the businesses, but to provide an enabling business environment for our people. That is why His Excellency the President sent me to the DRC to negotiate for access to business opportunities in that country on behalf of our businesses here. The results of that trip were seen just last week, when twenty-three business personnel went to the DRC. That is what we negotiated for. Even now, we are negotiating for the products that our businesses wish to sell across the borders so that a lot of foreign exchange (FOREX) comes into this country. If we leave everything to the businesses, like we saw in the past, briefcase businessmen will manipulate and take advantage of our people. So, as a responsible Government, we have the duty to negotiate on behalf of our people and create a conducive environment for them so that they do business successfully and profitably.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister willing to meet the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) with a view to encouraging it to flex its muscles on collateral for rural constituencies to benefit as well? This is because part of Kabwe Central Constituency is rural, and getting land title deeds is unattainable, just like in Sinazongwe. We want the people of Sinazongwe to benefit as well, but they cannot get title deeds, being in a rural constituency just like those in some parts of Kabwe Central Constituency.

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, like I said, the CEEC will be decentralised to constituencies, which are not only in urban areas, but also in rural areas. So, the presence of the commission will be felt everywhere and its capabilities will be present even in the rural communities.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Since there are no further supplementary questions, we will proceed to maiden speeches. Any hon. Members wishing to render their maiden speeches, this is the time.

 

Since there is no indication for maiden speeches, we will adjourn.

 

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MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

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The House adjourned at 1822 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 27^th October, 2021.

 

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