Wednesday, 12^th November, 2020

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

_______

 

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

PLANS TO UPGRADE THE NJOLA/MWANZA CLINIC

 

62. Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata) (on behalf of Mr Chaatila (Moomba)) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to upgrade the Njola/Mwanza Clinic, in Moomba Parliamentary Constituency, to a mini-hospital;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
3. whether the Government has any plans to procure an ambulance for the Clinic;
4. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
5. if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade the Njolo/Mwanza Clinic to a mini-hospital because there are variables that it considers when upgrading facilities from clinic to mini-hospital status. For example, the population in Njolo/Mwanza catchment does not meet the minimum criteria.

 

Mr Speaker, as stated above, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade the clinic to a mini-hospital because it does not meet the criteria and, therefore, the other part of the question falls off. However, on the issue of the ambulance, the Government looks at zonal facilities and an ambulance is placed to serve a zone rather than one particular area. Therefore, there are no immediate plans to specifically position an ambulance at this clinic.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker –

 

Mr Chali: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Chali: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order. Since I came to Parliament, this is the first time I am raising a point of order and it is because it is compelling.

 

Mr Speaker, three weeks ago, after a question that I raised in Parliament over the liquidation of the Konkola Copper Mine Plc (KCM), the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development gave a response in which he promised that he was going to come back to Parliament with a detailed statement.

 

Mr Speaker, people in Chingola, Chililabombwe, Kitwe and Nampundwe have been anxiously waiting for the statement but it is not forth coming. Is the hon. Minister in order to keep quiet whilst people are still waiting for the statement?

 

 I seek your serious ruling.

 

 Mr Speaker: I will reserve my ruling because I need to study the verbatim record and confirm or otherwise, what you have stated.

 

That is my ruling.   

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister may not be aware that the entire constituency of Moomba has no Government hospital. As if that is not enough, Moomba falls within Monze District which also has no Government hospital. What immediate plans does the hon. Minister have to ensure that the small clinics in Moomba and other areas within the district of Monze are upgraded like he has done in other districts?

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze and Leader of the Opposition states that there is no Government hospital in Monze. I would like to clarify that the Government has partnered with the Catholic Church to manage the Monze Mission Hospital. We have placed the human capital that is operating there. We give monthly grants and all the drugs and have expanded the infrastructure there. That is basically a Government/mission run hospital. It is a joint venture that is providing services the same way any other Government or mission facility would.

 

Mr Speaker, Monze has facilities that are zoned to provide referral services. Chikuni and Moomba are part of the referral system. Ambulances have been placed in strategic positions to ensure that through the radio system, should there be need for patients to be referred, they are quickly raised and ensure that the referral is done efficiently. So, the people of Moomba are serviced by the mission hospital in Monze which is run jointly with the Government.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that there is only one ambulance in Monze District which services Bweengwa, Monze Central and Moomba constituencies?

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, he simply wants to know whether you are aware.

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament may need to cross-check his facts. We have ambulances at the Monze Mission and the Monze District hospitals. We have not less than three ambulances at the Monze District Hospital.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

_______

 

BILLS

 

FIRST READING

 

THE ZAMBIA NATIONAL PUBLIC HEALTH INSTITUTE BILL, 2020

 

The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI) Bill, 2020. The objects of the Bill are to:

 

 (a)       coordinate public health security;

 

(b)        continue the existence of the ZNPHI and provide for its functions;

 

(c)        establish the Public Health Emergency Operations Centre;

 

(d)        establish the National Public Health Laboratory;

 

(e)        establish the National Public Health Emergency Fund; and

 

(f)         provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

 

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 3^rd December, 2020. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

 

SECOND READING

 

THE COMPANIES (Amendment) BILL, 2020

 

The Minister of Commerce Trade and Industry (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to deliver my statement on the Companies (Amendment) Bill, 2020. I wish to express my gratitude to your Committee for facilitating wide consultations with stakeholders as well as the transparent manner in which the Bill was reviewed. Let me also thank the stakeholders who contributed to the Bill before and during the Committee hearing.

 

Mr Speaker, at its twelfth special meeting held on 30^th April, 2020, Cabinet accepted recommendations by the hon. Minister of Finance that approval be given in principle for the introduction of a Bill in Parliament to amend the Companies Act No. 10 of 2017, so that it is in compliance with the Financial Action Task Force on Money-Laundering (FATF) recommendations.

 

Sir, among the Acts of Parliament being amended includes the Financial Intelligence Centre Act of 2010 and the Companies Act No.10 of 2017. The amendment to the Companies Act No.10 of 2017, has been necessitated by the need to revise the definition of “beneficial owner” in order to ensure compliance with the FATF recommendations aimed at combating money laundering, financing of terrorism and proliferation of any other serious offences.

 

Mr Speaker, the objectives of the Bill are to:

 

1. revise the definition of beneficial ownership; and 

 

1. provide for the definition of substantial economic benefit and substantial interest.

 

Mr Speaker, the rationale for amending the Companies Act No. 10 of 2017, arises from the assessment on Zambia by the Eastern and Southern Anti-Money Laundering Group and the Mutual Evaluation Report of June 2019 which recommended that Zambia should immediately commence amendments to the Companies Act to ensure that the legal provisions are in compliance with the definition of beneficial owner that includes that aspects of natural person on whose behalf the transactions are conducted and the legal obligation for companies such as accounting firms, law firms, casinos, real estate agents, dealers in metal and precious stones to cooperate with competent authorities in determining beneficial owners for their client, as and when such information is required.

 

Mr Speaker, the current definition of beneficial owner in the Companies Act No. 10 of 2017 does not clearly include the natural person on whose behalf, a transaction is conducted and this inhibits the provision of adequate information which is likely to assist in combating money laundering, financing of terrorism or proliferation of any other serious offences.

 

Mr Speaker, the proposed Bill, once amended and enacted into law, will result in enhanced measures for combating money laundering, financing of terrorism or proliferation of any other serious offences as the definition of beneficial owner under the Companies Act No. 10 of 2017, will be enhanced to ensure compliance with the FATF recommendations.

 

Mr Speaker, the amendment of the Companies Act No. 10 of 2017, is expected to achieve the following:

 

1. enhanced definition of beneficial owner;
2. enhanced measures for combating money laundering, financing of terrorism or proliferation or any other serious offences; and
3. ensure compliance with FATF recommendations.

 

Mr Speaker, with regard to the definition for beneficial owners as provided in the Companies (Amendment) Bill of 2020, the ministry wishes to submit that there is need to define the terms “substantial interest” and “substantial economic benefit” which are used in the current definition of “beneficial owner” so as to make the definition clear.

 

Mr Speaker, in light of the foregoing, I would like to urge the hon. Members of this august House to fully support this Bill.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms Kasanda (Chisamba) (on behalf of Mr A. Malama (Nchelenge)): Mr Speaker, I rise to present the report of the Committee on Delegated Legislation on the Companies (Amendment) Bill, No.12 of 2020, for the Fifth Session of the Twelve National Assembly, referred to the Committee by the House on 20^th October, 2020.

 

Sir, the House may be aware that the amendments to the Companies Act are consequential to the proposed amendments of the Financial Intelligence Center Act, No. 46 of 2010, under the Financial Intelligence (Amendment) Bill, No. 11 of 2020. These amendments seek to bring the Financial Intelligence Act into compliance with the standard set by the Financial Action Task Force of the Eastern and Southern African Anti-Money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG), to which Zambia is a party.

 

Mr Speaker, the amendments under the Companies Act are also necessary in order to ensure that the country is compliant with the Financial Action Task Force recommendations aimed at combating money laundering, financing of terrorism or proliferation of any other serious offences. In this regard, the object of the Companies (Amendment) Bill is to amend the Companies Act, No. 10 of 2017, so as to revise the definition of beneficial ownership and provide for the definitions of substantial economic benefit and substantial interest.

 

Mr Speaker, in order to appreciate the ramifications of the Bill, the Committee interacted with a number of stakeholders who provided valuable information and greatly assisted the committee in interrogating the Bill. All the stakeholders who appeared before this Committee were in support of the proposed amendments, as they would promote transparency and disclosure of the real persons behind a company or a body corporate.

 

Sir, the Committee’s findings are outlined in the Report, which I believe hon. Members have had the time to read through. To this end, allow me to highlight a few of the Committee’s observations and recommendations.

 

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that although the Bill mainly seeks to define the words “beneficial owner”, this particular term is defined in various other pieces of legislation, albeit differently. In this regard, the Committee is concerned that the different definitions of the term “beneficial owner”, in different pieces of legislation, may cause confusion with regard to the interpretation of the term. Therefore, water down the information of the Companies Act and, indeed, the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, vis-a-vis the provision of information by beneficial owners which would assist in combating money laundering, financing of terrorism or any other serious offences.

 

Mr Speaker, in view of this, the Committee recommends that amendments and realignment of different statutory provisions be embarked upon, urgently so as to avoid difficulties in the enforcement of the law.

 

Mr Speaker, the Committee notes the use of the word “corporate” in the definition of “beneficial owner.” According to Section 3 of the Companies Act, No. 10 of 2017, the word “corporate” means an entity including a company or body corporate that is separate and distinct from its owners and which is recognised as such by the law and acts as a single entity. This definition encompasses companies incorporated in Zambia and entities incorporated under any written law and is, therefore, welcome.

 

Sir, however, the Committee has observed that under the definitions for “substantial economic benefit” and “substantial interest” the term “body corporate” was instead used. In terms of Section 3 as aforementioned, “body corporate” means an entity incorporated in accordance with the other written law other than the corporate sole. This has effectively narrowed the area of beneficial ownership to entities outside the ambit of the Companies Act or companies incorporated in Zambia. To this end, the Committee recommends that the definitions of “substantial economic benefit” and “substantial interest” be explained to include “corporate” so as to capture indirect interests held through Zambian companies.

 

Mr Speaker, may I conclude by expressing gratitude to you on my own behalf and that of the Committee for your guidance during our deliberations. The Committee would also like to express gratitude to the office of the Clerk for the support services rendered during the Committee’s deliberations.

 

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I would like to thank you.

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me to briefly support the Report by your Committee, and to state that these amendments has come at the right time, when Zambia is grappling with a lot of issues such as money laundering, anti-terrorism, funding and all sorts of things.

 

Mr Speaker, we are aware that the Companies Act, and the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, and all other legislation relating to financing must speak the same language. Now, we have a situation where we have one Act which is talking about one definition while the other one is not mentioning it. So, we will be grateful, if we would be allowed to amend the Companies Act and the Financial Intelligence Centre Act so that the issue of the beneficial owner is addressed.

 

Mr Speaker, most of the time, suspects have escaped investigations and this has allowed speculations to grow. Some people have ended up pointing wrong fingers at other people because the beneficial owners may not have been properly identified in the companies register. We are aware that, during the privatisation exercise, many people went away with many wrong doings. However, when the issue of the beneficial owner is addressed, even if one hides behind a company incorporated abroad, the truth of the matter is that the shareholding of that particular company will be exposed. We now have many foreign companies registered elsewhere but operating in Zambia. They come in the mask of an international company, yet the owners are based here in Zambia. So, they run away from paying the correct taxes and from complying with the law. They run away with many things.

 

Mr Speaker, as you might be aware, the whole of last year, the Financial Intelligence Centre Act was at the centre of debate when many so-called politically exposed persons were exposed but not mentioned. So, everyone who is politically exposed including myself became a suspect. Therefore, people now think that when you are a politician, it means you are corrupt and probably engaged in some of these activities. However, sometimes politically exposed persons could be relatives of politicians or they could be people who have been in politics but have left. Mostly, people who run political parties will also hide in the veil of running a political party, yet behind that political party, they do many wrong things.

 

Mr Speaker, this, we believe will clear many things and will help the investigative wings of this country to discover who the rightful people behind some of these entities are.

 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to also state that we have had instances where the question arises as to who must pay a particular tax. Is it the owner of the company, shareholders, the director, the parent company or the subsidiary? I think when this definition is cleared, it will be very clear as to who must pay taxes in such instances.

 

Mr Speaker, we also know that some of the huge mining companies are now refusing to pay taxes when the time comes. We also know that there are some conglomerates that hide in the name of subsidiaries. When it is the correct time to be investigated for either tax evasion or anything like that, they escape because of the definition. By virtue of the definition, you will note that they are not the owners and, therefore, they are not liable to pay any taxes to anyone.

 

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, allow me to thank you for this golden opportunity and to also congratulate the hon. Minister for bringing such an amendment to Parliament so that all the speculation that we have had can now be resolved.

 

Mr Speaker, let me also congratulate the hon. Member of Parliament for Chikankata for expressing gratitude for the way in which I have debated. He is telling me that next year he will join the Patriotic Front (PF).

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

 Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to debate. I also want to thank the Patriotic Front (PF) Government for bringing this –

 

Mr Mwiinga interjected.

 

Mr Speaker: Continue, hon. Member.

 

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, I can see that the hon. Member for Chikankata is too excited to be told that he should join the PF. He is welcome.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, this is a very important recommendation that has been made by the Government and it requires our support. The Financial Action Task Force (FATF) is a group of countries that was established in 1989. Zambians should know that this was established by the Group of Seven (G7) countries which comprise big powers. The G7 countries met in Paris to deal with the issue of money laundering. From that time, regional bodies have been established around the world. The Eastern and Southern African countries joined through a group called the Eastern and Southern African Anti-money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG) and the initial recommendations were forty. These forty recommendations were meant for financial systems to be compliant so that they are not abused for money laundering.

 

Mr Speaker, after experiencing a lot of terrorist attacks, the world moved to include the terrorist financing so that people could be able to know who is involved in it. I, therefore, congratulate the PF Government because it does not want Zambia to be counted as one of those countries that are non-compliant, like other countries in the world, which are blacklisted. This should be able to give confidence to our people that the PF Government is leading in a certain way, such that our financial system is compliant. Our Government is able to identify money launderers and those who are supporting us by bringing their funds and rinsing them up, through the establishment of companies. This is why I support this Bill and I urge my fellow hon. members to support it.

 

Mr Speaker, the countrymen and women should be confident enough that the PF Government means well because it is bringing its financial system to the open and to the world standard. It was not too long ago that we went to join the Egmont Group of Financial Intelligence Units. This is a group of countries that are compliant with good standards. If a country is not compliant with its financial systems such as the banks and other financial institutions including companies, it can be blacklisted.

 

Mr Speaker, further, under the ESAAMLG, through the Ministry of Finance and the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC), we get what is called a Mutual Evaluation Report. Our other partners are able to come to Zambia and look at our systems and ensure that we are doing well. So, as we get to 2021, the people of Zambian should be confident that they have a party in Government that does not want to hide as some people might want to insinuate. We go to the international world and show ourselves including the financial system that there is nothing we are hiding. If we are hiding anything, the ESAAMLG will come with a microscope to see. A microscope is an instrument used to magnify small objects that are difficult to see with the naked eye. The microscope magnifies the size of objects so that people can see what is happening.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

 

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, I know that the United Party for National Development (UPND) can question that. I mean one of its members, not everyone, can question that. The most responsible citizens in the PF and the UPND will be able to agree with me that the PF Government means well in ensuring that we bring this Motion which we are discussing today because we do not want to hide anything. I, therefore, want to urge the Zambian people to support the PF in 2021 because this party will continuously show that it is clean in every aspect of public dealings.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to debate on this Bill. I want to be very brief because the hon. Member for Kanchibiya has done justice to this debate by giving a very informative discussion on this Bill. The hon. Minister of Justice, the hon. Minister of Finance and I, who represent the country on the Eastern and Southern African Anti-money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG), are very grateful for that informative debate. We must commend the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry for bringing these amendments in line with the amendments that will be done to the Financial Intelligence Centre Act.

 

Mr Speaker, I have heard some organisations casting aspersions on the amendments that will be moved in the next Bill, the Non-Government Organisation Act. They must understand that these are international obligations and failure to align ourselves and be in compliance with the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) and the ESAAMLG which Hon. Malama has spoken about may end the country into facing sanctions. This means that the country can be isolated in terms of international transactions. When that happens, it can be bad because we have missions abroad that we service through the international transactions movement of funds. When those sanctions are imposed on a state, it means those transactions and the movement of funds cannot take place.

 

Sir, the amendments that are coming concerning this Bill are very important and we have a time frame of concluding this before February, 2021. So, the hon. Minister of Justice cannot wait to make sure that all these related pieces of legislations are amended. So, let us not make uninformed debates like we have heard from some organisations suggesting that maybe, the Government wants to impose restrictions on Non-Government Organisations (NGOs), who receive funds from outside the country. All the funds are monitored and must be monitored. So, those who think that they are being targeted must not think like that because there is no such a thing. This is an international obligation and it is a must do activity.

 

Mr Speaker, the Chairperson of the Committee on Delegated Legislation spoke about the aspect of companies and corporate, and their definitions. The whole essence is to make sure that no one hides under the corporate veil when we are monitoring these financial transactions. As the ministry responsible for the anti-terrorism centre, we want to also make sure that we realign our acts in line with the major amendments that will come in the FIC Act.

 

Mr Speaker, I, therefore, want to commend the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry and the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare, who will equally be moving some amendments for their efforts and to assure them that no one is being targeted because that is an international obligation. So, those NGOs should just be transparent and sincere in their dealings. When they receive funds, these funds must be monitored. We should know where they are coming from and for what purpose because money laundering is about moving funds without disclosing the purpose for those funds. So, those who think that they can hide behind these transactions should just understand that they need to be transparent.  This is an international obligation for us to align our pieces of legislations.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I am just overwhelmed with the support I have received from the House.

 

Sir, indeed, this is a very serious amendment that we are trying to arrive at. However, we have taken note of the points raised. As we revise the definition of beneficial ownership and provide for the definition of substantial interest and substantial economic benefit, we will also consider including the aspect of corporate so that people can understand. As the hon. Minister of Home Affairs said, it should never be under a veil. We will badge that and see what it will entail.

 

Sir, I thank the Chairperson and the Member for Chisamba, Hon. Kasanda, the Deputy Chief Whip, Hon. Ngulube, the Member for Kanchibiya, Hon. Malama and, indeed, Hon. Kampyongo for their support. In absentia, whatever the hon. Minister for Western Province is thinking about, we will welcome a late entry.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

 

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

 

Committee on Tuesday, 17^th November, 2020.

 

THE NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANISATIONS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2020

 

The Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare (Ms Mulenga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

 

Sir, the Non-Governmental Organisations (Amendment) Bill, 2020, was necessitated by the recommendation of the Eastern and Southern Africa Anti-Money Laundering Group Zambia Mutual Evaluation Report of 2019. The report recommended for the amendment of the Non-Governmental Organisations Act to provide for risk-based supervision and monitoring of Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) with a view of protecting them from terrorist financing abuse. This is in line with the financial action task force standards to which Zambia is a member.

 

Mr Speaker, since there was already an ongoing process to repeal and replace the Non-Governmental Organisations Act No. 16 of 2009, the recommendation was presented to the technical working group established by the ministry to spearhead the process of repealing and replacing the Non-Governmental Organisations Act. Based on this recommendation, provisions were incorporated in the Non-Governmental Organisations Bill, 2020, by the technical working group to deal with terrorist financing issues. The provisions on terrorist financing were adopted by stakeholders and are currently contained in the draft Bill earmarked to repeal and replace the Non-Governmental Organisations Act.

 

Sir, following the commencement of the process to amend the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, the Non-Governmental Organisations Act No. 16 of 2009, among other laws, was consequentially required to be amended to provide for a function of the board, that is, to implement measures for monitoring the risk of the use of NGOs in financing of terrorism, proliferation or any other serious offences.

 

Mr Speaker, in line with the financial action task force requirements under recommendation eight, the Non-Governmental Organisations (Amendment) Bill will enable the board to identify the subset of NGOs in the country which are at risk of terrorist financing abuse, based on their activities and characteristics, and be able to work with them in developing strategies and measures for their protection. The board will work with NGOs to protect the NGO sector from terrorist financing abuse and other serious crimes in the sector.

 

Sir, the above measures will lead to the protection of the NGO sector and the country at large from terrorist financing abuse. It, therefore, means that the NGO sector in Zambia has the confidence of stakeholders regarding the fight against terrorist financing. The country will also avoid being blacklisted by the international community for not complying with international standards.

 

Mr Speaker, given that the Financial Intelligence Centre Act is undergoing the amendment process, it is consequential to amend the Non-Governmental Organisations Act, like any other related laws, for the country to comply with the financial action task force requirements to avoid being blacklisted for not complying.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, from the outset, let me express my gratitude for giving me this opportunity to brief the House on the deliberations of the Committee with regard to the Non-Governmental Organisations (Amendment) Bill No. 13 of 2020, referred to it by the House on Wednesday, 20^th October, 2020.

 

Sir, as you have heard, the amendments are consequential to the changes that are happening to the Financial Intelligence Centre Law. The Committee welcomes the Non-Governmental Organisations (Amendment) Bill No. 13 of 2020, and it notes that the amendment is essential for ensuring that Zambia is aligned with international standards relating to money laundering and counter terrorism financing as it relates to Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs).

 

Mr Speaker, allow me, therefore, to state that most stakeholders who appeared before the Committee were in support of the Bill and, hence, I will simply highlight two key points raised and the concerns highlighted, which the Committee was also in support of.

 

Sir, Clause 3 seeks to broaden the mandate of the NGOs registration board to include the implementation of measures for monitoring the risk of the use of NGOs in financing terrorism, including proliferation or other associated serious offences in consultation with the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC). That is just one of the proposed changes and the Committee is in agreement with it.

 

Mr Speaker, the Committee notes with concern that the Bill is not clear with what should happen next, after this monitoring has happened. In this regard, it, therefore recommends that the amendment should include the provision for the board to not only report the risks but the actual acts of terrorism financing to the relevant law enforcement institutions. Additionally, the Committee also proposes that sanctions should be provided for, in an event that the risks or actual acts of terrorism financing are not reported by NGOs.

 

Sir, the Committee also notes with concern that Clause 3 places the word “financing” in front of the word “terrorism” thereby giving the impression that the concern is financing terrorism or proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. In order to make it clear therefore, the issue of concern is terrorism or proliferation financing. The Committee recommends placing the word “financing” after the words “terrorism or proliferation”. In view of the foregoing, Clause 3 should be recast to read:

 

“In consultation with the Financial Intelligence Centre, implement measures for monitoring the risk of the use of Non-Governmental Organisations in terrorism or proliferation financing or any other serious offences as prescribed.”

 

Mr Speaker, further, the Committee recommends that the Bill should also include another clause providing for NGOs who are referred in paragraph 3(c) to be a legal person or entity or arrangement or organisation that primarily engages in raising or disbursing funds for charitable, religious, cultural, educational, social or for fraternal purposes, or for the carrying out of other types of good works, in order to make it clear what type of NGOs are to be monitored for terrorism or proliferation financing.

 

Sir, as I conclude, allow me to urge the Executive, through this House, to expedite the repeal process of the main law that is the Non-Governmental Organisations Act No. 2 of 2009, in order to bring forth a self-regulatory framework that will, by and large, instil confidence in the NGOs operating environment with regard to promoting their independence, transparency and accountability.

 

Mr Speaker, finally, my gratitude goes to you for affording the Committee an opportunity to study this Bill. The Committee wishes to thank all stakeholders who appeared before it and tendered both oral and written submissions. The Committee also appreciates the services rendered by the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff during its deliberations.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister for Northern Province (Mr Chungu): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to support this progressive amendment Bill that has been moved by the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare.

 

Sir, any country that requires to attract investment should move with the current trends as far as the international practices and standards are concerned. Therefore, the Government and the people of the Northern Province in particular, support this Bill, which is consequential.

 

Mr Speaker, the Non-Government Organisations Act and, indeed, this amendment is welcome because we have seen quite a number of terrorists who have channelled money through Non-Government Organisations (NGOs). Some of the NGOs are engaged in political activities and, therefore, destabilised a number of countries, some of which have gone through a lot of turmoil and this brought about differences amongst the citizenry of those countries. So, through money laundering, terrorists have used NGOs to clean their monies and this amendment will – (Inaudible)

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Chungu, we have lost you. Are you still there?

 

I will move on to the next debater.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving the people of Chilubi an opportunity to support this important amendment of the Non-Governmental Organisations Act of 2009, through the proposed amendment.

 

Sir, in the first place, I would like to say that broadening the scope or mandate of the Non-Governmental Organisation Act has been the desire of most stakeholders especially that after the introduction of the Non-Governmental Organisations Act of 2009, different stakeholders have had certain bottlenecks. Having said that, I also want to state that sometimes, Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) are viewed as conduits for possible channelling of money for terrorism. Recently, some people raised concerns of some NGOs being involved in regime change. Regime change can take any face. If people cannot influence regime change democratically, they can resort to civil strife and many other things.

 

Mr Speaker, the Non-Governmental Organisations Act that is under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare is taking care of many civil society organisations. I do not know how this can be extended to NGOs registered in the Ministry of Home Affairs under Cap 119 of the Societies Act and some of them are churches. Looking at the financial integrity of many NGOs, some of them come under the veil of the church, and at the end of the day, they perform other activities. Some very stable religious groups that we know of are more of traditional religious groups but there are other groups that are mushrooming that need to be taken care of. This is because Pastor B is sometimes found in certain situations, which are quite questionable religious activities.

 

Sir, I also want to address the Act that takes care of the National Youth Development Council because broadening the scope or mandate of the Non-Governmental Organisations Act is linked to financial crime. It is also linked to the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) and they should be in tandem. If that is the case, it means that any NGO, according to the laws of Zambia, which has the capacity and possibly an opportunity to carry out transactions, be it in United States Dollar, Kwacha, Deutschmark or whatever, should fall within the ambit of the Non-Governmental Organisations Act and within the broadened scope as such. If, for instance, we do not capture what is under Cap 119 of the Societies Act, the National Youth Development Council and any other format under the Laws of Zambia that captures such NGOs, we will be fishing in the air.

 

Mr Speaker, looking at the interlink, especially between the financial sector and NGOs, I would like to say that apart from companies, some NGOs receive grants and others receive loans. Therefore, I think the board should subject such NGOs to scrutiny because, generally, NGOs are supposed to implement projects and programmes to supplement Government work and they resonate in certain areas. Genuine NGOs stand up to that effect and they use the money they receive for such purposes. However, what is of concern is that such resources can be channelled for what was not intended for. So, the concealment is that maybe the money presented, for instance, was for the fight against the Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) but when it arrives here, it is used for other purposes and that is what we are supposed to look at. Maybe, the board can put in place measures to monitor how some resources are used because when some individuals receive the funds they apply for from either the European Union (EU) or any other organisation, these individuals –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, thank you very much.

 

Sir, when you have a Government which has insufficient leadership qualities and has failed to deliver to the people, it is always very jittery of anything. The Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) in this country have done a lot, and we need to thank them. If we did not have some of these NGOs, I do not know how our society would be surviving. While I welcome this Money Laundering Bill, it is also important that action is taken against people who break such laws. Two years ago, we had a financial report which exposed the misappropriation of K6.1 billion. The report also talked about some terrorism activity. However, what was disappointing is that nothing was done about the K6.1 billion that was misappropriated. No single person was charged. Therefore, we cannot only be making laws and when these laws affect us, no action is taken.  When no action is taken, the whole purpose of making laws ceases to make sense.

 

Mr Speaker, we have organisations like the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) which is now completely done. It cannot do any work because of Government interference. It is now a white elephant. We also have the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), which has also been compromised. We are bringing in these laws and at the same time, we are not implementing them. These laws will only make sense when action is taken against those who breach them. When some people break the law, action is taken. However, when those in Government break the law, no action is taken. What has been lacking in this country is to take action. I hope these Bills are not being made because you think that there are NGOs that are suspected to be sponsoring people whom you may not like. Some people want the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) that we are talking about to be moved to DEC. Why is that so?  After FIC exposed the misappropriation of K6.1 billion, the Government was in the forefront fighting it, and one of the board members was removed.

 

Mr Speaker, it is very important that as we make these laws which we say are good, we must ensure action is taken against those found wanting. We have the ACC which cannot act the way it is supposed to because it is controlled by an invisible hand. The same thing applies at DEC. The police now are miserable. They cannot exercise their professionalism because of interference. So, even when we have these laws in place, money continues to disappear. You can even see how those who are involved are talking about this Bill. They are saying that possibly, there are people who bring money into the country to support the Opposition. That is not the issue here. The issue is that action should be taken regardless of who is involved. For as long as action is not taken, all these laws do not make any sense. They are not serving the country. We have a Budget now which is failing to balance. Our revenues have dwindled, the resource envelop is shaken and cannot balance. For the Government to pay civil servants, it has to borrow. This money which is going through these channels of misappropriation would have helped the country as well as balance the Budget.

 

Mr Speaker, we need each and every ngwee. That is what I am saying. I welcome the Bill, but my point is who is going to check it. What is the point of having very good laws which are not implemented? You can have a school with good school rules, but if the headmaster of that school is the first one to urinate on the table, hell will break loose because his job is to make sure that these laws are followed and implemented. Therefore, the Government should stop interfering and compromising these audits that are meant to protect the resources which it still needs. This Government is now in trouble and will move out of power because it has failed to deliver to the Zambians. All the tricks it is trying to play will not help it. Serve the people and respect the laws that are made and those who are meant to implement them, allow them to do so.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: I will take the last interventions from the hon. Deputy Chief Whip, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and lastly, the hon. Minister of Justice.

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this exciting moment to add just a few lines to the debate.

 

Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to mention that Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) are part of the civil society. In every society, we expect that these NGOs should operate within the confines of the law. It is worrying to hear one of our hon. Members of Parliament expressing some sort of lack of understanding on what an NGO is. I am aware that in every country in the world, people have rules and regulations. Some of these NGOs can be dangerous to the peace of the nation. Some of them can be used to destabilise civility in politics and also be used to masquerade as churches or orphanages when in actual fact, they are involved in practices that the international community would not entertain. So, when someone says that this Government does not want NGOs, I think that person would be mistaken because under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, we have more NGOs operating and they are doing so freely.

 

Sir, under the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, we have never heard of an NGO being closed down for reasons that it is critical to the Government. When the Constitution of Zambia Amendment Bill No.10 of 2019 was being debated, we saw how NGOs turned into political parties. We saw some political parties hiding under the name of NGOs demonstrating outside Parliament. Unless people are not appreciating, there is a lot of liberty in Zambia now because the PF Government is very tolerant.

 

Mr Speaker, in some countries, an NGO cannot stand in the face of the Government and call for its removal and walk home smiling. If you are an NGO in some of our neighbouring countries including those which are believed to be more advanced than Zambia, you stick to your lane. Therefore, those political parties which we know, that have been trying to climb a mountain in reverse, to take over power from this Government, will climb another mountain in reverse next year. This is because you cannot expect to use NGOs to destabilise the peace of this nation, to pass on misinformation, and tell the people wherever you go, that Zambia is a very bad nation. When foreigners visit Zambia, they actually copy our model. We are aware that the Registrar of Societies is one of the points where they come to ask how we do it here in Zambia.

 

Mr Speaker, we have NGOs registered under Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA). As NGOs, they come as companies registered under guarantee. When you look at what they do behind, you will see that they are hiding something. We know them, and that is why some people are so scared. It is because the law is now catching up on them. There is no way you can run a country without knowing what an organisation does. So, if you are not involved in any criminality or terrorism, why would you be scared when the Government is talking about criminality? Why would you be scared when Government is talking about terrorist funding? I do not want to remind myself of the debate I made some weeks ago where we challenged some people who got money and they were saying they were going to overturn an election. Through an NGO, they failed to overturn that election because they lost in the Constitutional Court. Now, they are trying to use the same tricks. We want to assure them that come 2021, and with or without NGOs, the people of Zambia will know which Government is better and which presidential candidate is better than the other.

 

Mr Speaker, as I wind up, I would like to inform the House that we know that some NGOs have actually been antagonistic to every Government that comes. We do not even know what they want. When there was the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) they were critical of it. When the PF came into power, they became critical again. Even if those political parties which are climbing the mountain in reverse wake up and form Government after 70 years, these NGOs will still fight them because they do not know exactly what they want.

 

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, allow me to thank you once more for this opportunity, and I support this Motion as we all expect an amendment to the NGO Act.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity once again, to make a few comments on the Motion on the Floor.

 

Mr Speaker, like I said earlier on, these amendments are consequential. I am surprised that an hon. Colleague would take the Floor and debate in such an ignorant way by talking about the Zambia Police, which is yet to be debated. The Vote for the Zambia Police is yet to come and the hon. Member of Parliament will discuss matters to do with the police.

 

Mr Speaker, like I said earlier on, these amendments were triggered by what Hon. Malama called a mutual assessment report which was done by the Financial Action Taskforce. Like I said, we are party to these requirements as a nation. We do not want to risk our nation being sanctioned for failure to do what was highlighted in the mutual assessment report. I want to commend the hon. Minister for Community Development and Social Welfare. Some of the Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) which are registered under the Ministry of Home Affairs through the Registrar of Societies have an obligation to submit annual returns for us to take stock of their activities –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, please, give me a minute.

 

I do not know whether this is inadvertent. There is an indication that the Chief Government Whip wants to raise a point of order or it is some electronic error. It might be inadvertent.

 

You may continue, hon. Minister.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I was saying that NGOs that are registered under the Societies Act are obliged to submit returns every year in order for us to understand what activities they did in a year. This is basically to understand them and make them transparent. There are some NGOs that are registered under the hon. Minister’s ministry, that are a very interesting lot. I do not know, but for some reason, these NGOs think that they can engage in activities without being monitored. Someone said that there is no society where entities can exist without being monitored by any system. The terrorism activities and proliferation of illicit funds that we are grappling with have to do with the way people move funds, and NGOs are some of the entities that international criminals would want to use.

 

Mr Speaker, like Hon. Tutwa Ngulube, the Deputy Chief Whip, said, if one is engaging in normal transactions, there is no need to worry at all because what we are doing here is to align ourselves with international requirements in as far as fighting money laundering is concerned. We do not want to face sanctions. So, those of us who go to sit on the Eastern and Southern Africa Anti-Money Laundering Group (ESAAMLG) are very grateful that the recommendations that were made by the team that came to conduct a mutual assessment are being followed by the line ministries that are required to make amendments. Therefore, to my dear colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo, I want to say that it is important that we understand matters that are being debated without having countrywide kind of debate which end up misinforming the public.

 

Mr Speaker, like I said, these amendments are consequential and are a must because we need to make sure that we are complying with the requirements of the Financial Action Taskforce and, indeed, ESAAMLG.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: The last intervention will come from the hon. Minister of Justice.

 

The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, thank you.

 

Sir, I would not have contributed after this debate knowing that the hon. Minister herself will correct some of the impressions that have been created, but I was prompted to just make a comment when I heard that this Bill is aiming at stifling the space of Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs). I thought my sister may miss that out, and I thought I should make it clear that when we came up with this law, we did consult the NGO world. The NGOs participated in coming up with this law. They themselves understand that this law is not targeting them at all. As a matter of fact, it is strengthening their role in eliminating chances of being used for terrorism financing and for illicit financial flows.

 

Sir, let me also make it clear that it is not only NGOs that are involved in this process, but many other entities that are referred to in the Financial Intelligence Centre Act as reporting entities. The board of an NGO will be a reporting entity so that in the event that they discover, working with the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC), any illicit or suspicious transactions, they would report to FIC, which intelligence centre does not have power to sanction but report to investigative wings of the Government. This is the arrangement that we have.

 

Mr Speaker, I would like to remind all of us that as a matter of fact, political parties also ought to be treated as reporting entities. This is the reason Article 60 of our Constitution provides that there must be prescription of law to check the financing of political parties, and I can assure you that pretty soon, that law will be brought to the House so that political parties are also accountable to the people of Zambia on how they are funded. We are aware of the fact that there are some political parties in this country that survive on funds that are illicit, and that has to be stopped.

 

Mr Speaker, let me comment on a few issues that were raised by the Chairperson of the Committee. One issue was that we should provide measures that the board should take in case the monitoring reveals illicit activity. It is not the intention of the law for the board to take any sanctions, the role of the board is simply to report to FIC. So, I would like to correct that. Secondly, let me correct the issue that we should have measures that the FIC and the board shall come up with, spelt out. We possibly cannot put the measures in the law because this is a very dynamic area, and these measures shall change from time to time. These measures will be brought about by FIC not only working with NGOs but with many other reporting entities, and these reporting entities include, for instance, the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA), the Pensions and Insurance Authority (PIA), banks, social clubs, because all these are reporting entities and their measures shall be changing from time to time.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to agree with the one who said that there is no way we can craft a law that says that certain NGOs must be excluded from being monitored because they are charitable organisations and so on and so forth. The idea is that all entities that are capable of being used or being abused must all be brought under the purview of FIC. The issue of reports of FIC not having been handled in the past and so on and so forth is not a fact. The truth is that FIC has been providing reports to investigative wings of the Government and those wings do not have to come and report to society that they are following a certain matter because it was reported to them by FIC. That is not how these things work.

 

Mr Speaker, I would like to end by saying that all of us ought to support this very important amendment to the Non-Governmental Organisations Act, and on the review of the Act, the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare shall speak to that. I can confirm that the Ministry of Justice has already received instructions for us to look at the total overhaul of the Non-Governmental Organisations Act. I am aware that NGO leaders would like that law to be reviewed and we shall do that as soon as we finish stakeholder consultations.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, let me begin by thanking you for this opportunity. Let me also thank the Chairperson and the hon. Members of Parliament for their valuable contributions. I also thank the Deputy Chief Whip, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Lubinda, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo, and the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi.

 

Mr Speaker, I just want to state that the Government will forever be indebted to this Parliament for enacting certain laws. Let me assure assure our hon. Members of Parliament that the Non-Governmental Organisations’ Registration Board will have the legal basis to undertake activities to protect the NGO sector from being abused by those involved in financing terrorism, proliferation of illicit funds and other serious crimes. This will contribute to the NGO sector in Zambia having the confidence of stakeholders regarding the fight against terrorism financing.

 

Mr Speaker, I know some stakeholders and Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) may oppose the NGO (Amendment) Bill, 2020 based on the assumption that if the amendment Bill is passed by Parliament, the Government may decide not to proceed with the process of the repeal and placement of the NGO Act No. 16 of 2009. Let me assure the House that the Government remains committed to ensuring that the NGO Act is repealed and replaced to address its shortcomings. I just want to say that as a ministry, we will ensure that this good law, once enacted, will be firmly implemented.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

 

Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

 

Committee on Tuesday, 17^th November, 2020.

 

_______

 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

VOTE 87 – (Anti-Corruption Commission – K72,787,743)

 

(Consideration resumed)

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Chairperson, at the time of adjournment yesterday, I was informing the House that in addition, over K8 million in funds have, to-date, been forfeited to the State.

 

Madam Chairperson, despite the above achievements, the operations of the commission in the first half of this year were negatively affected by the onset of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, just like most Government departments and agencies. It is, however, envisaged that the above activities undertaken have significantly contributed to fostering integrity as the cornerstone of public service delivery and deterring individuals from engaging in corrupt activities.

 

2021 Budget Estimates

 

Madam Chairperson, allow me to now present to this august House, estimates for the operations of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) in line with its mandate as provided under the Anti-Corruption Act No. 3 of 2012. The total budget allocation for the commission for 2021 is K72,787,743. This allocation is for the commission to undertake activities in the following key programmes:

 

1. corruption investigations and prosecution;
2. corruption prevention and public awareness; and
3. management and support services.

 

Madam Chairperson, my Government anticipates that the impact of these activities will bring about an improved public service delivery system and curtail waste in resource application encountered in poor procurements. This, therefore, will ultimately contribute to the economic development of our nation through enhanced transparency and accountability in various Government programmes.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to convey sincere gratitude to hon. Members of this august House who have remained steadfast in their resolve to fight against corruption at large and thus provide the much needed support to the ACC. I also wish to thank cooperating partners for their continued financial and technical support to the fight against corruption in Zambia.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is my sincere hope that we shall all own the fight against corruption and take necessary steps to desist from engaging in this evil scourge. I wish to urge all hon. Members of Parliament to support the ACC budget.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Chairperson, please, allow me to thank you for giving me an opportunity to have a bite at the debate on the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) budget this afternoon. Without wasting time, I would like to paraphrase the policy statement of Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Mr Lufuma: In her policy statement, which I just extracted, she essentially says it is an indisputable fact that corruption continues to rob this country of resources which could, otherwise, have been used and invested in the social and economic sectors of our economy for the greater benefit of all Zambians, as opposed to benefiting individuals.

 

Madam Chairperson, the ACC is a very important institution for good governance because it states in its mandate that it should ensure that public resources are safeguarded and utilised, again, for the greater good and benefit of the people as opposed to individuals. However, in order to execute this mandate, the ACC needs a lot of support and the question is: What sort of support does the ACC require in order to execute its mandate?

 

Madam Chairperson, according to me, there are four areas of support. The first is Budget support, which is exactly what we are doing right now with the K72 million that has been allocated to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC). However, the question is: is that enough for it to carry out investigations, effect arrests, prosecute and, of course, attain convictions? What is the answer? If you look at the allocations, historically, you will realise that they have not been adequate for the institution to carry out its operations in fulfilment of its mandate. To date, we have a deficit there.

 

Madam Chairperson, the second area of support, which is connected to the Budget, it is manpower. We need to have trained professionals who know investigative work and prosecution. Do we have a cadre that is trained in enough measure to be able to do this type of work? The answer is no.

 

Madam Chairperson, the third area of support is the independence of the institution. The ACC has to be independent of political interference, intimidation and threats that we have seen being thrown around by those people in power when it wants to do its work. This should stop, and these people on your right know it, ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Lufuma: ... in order for the ACC to carry out its constitutional mandate which the country has given to it.

 

Madam Chairperson, the fourth area of support is political will. Do we have the political will from the top to fight against corruption, apart from verbal support or lip service where people say that they abhor corruption and have zero tolerance for it when there is no commensurate action to support the ACC? For example, if you look at the issue of the fire tenders that cost US$42 million, there has been no comment from the President. What is he waiting for?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Lufuma: If you look at the issue of ambulances, there has been no comment either from the President. What is he waiting for?

 

Interruptions

 

The Chairperson: Order in the House!

 

Mr Lufuma: If you look at various corrupt practices –

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Chairperson, corruption in this country has improved from the time the Patriotic Front (PF) took over power in 2011. We have seen so many people in this country who, just in yesteryears were wearing overalls, but are now stinking rich. This is the country we are in. Corruption has to be treated as a crime against humanity because it has destroyed our country in agriculture and even hospitals. We no longer have drugs in hospitals because of corruption.

 

Madam Chairperson, the money that has been allocated to this institution is too little. The K72 million is too little an amount. There are people who are involved in corrupt activities involving more than K500 million and then you allocate about K72 million. How do you expect people to operate freely? The amount of money is too little. We are supposed to allocate more money so that these people can work efficiently.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) is a very vital institution in this country. If managed properly, Zambia’s economy can even grow to a higher level. We should let this institution operate freely because it has not operated freely since the Patriotic Front (PF) took over power. This institution performs well most times, but it is abused by a certain cartel of members of the PF, especially those at the helm of the Government.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Government procurements must always be checked, especially under the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Energy and the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development because these are the ministries where corruption is more pronounced. We have no drugs in hospitals because of corruption. The company called Honeybee must be investigated. Further, funds for the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) must also be investigated fully.

 

Madam Chairperson, even fuel under the Ministry of Energy is too expensive because of corruption under the PF. Further, the quality of roads under the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development is poor. The PF’s plastic roads are being worked on repeatedly because of corruption.

 

Madam Chairperson, I urge the ACC to investigate big cases like those in the Auditor-General’s Report and the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) Report and bring the culprits to book. The ACC should investigate high profile cases like those were people have become rich all of a sudden. They have come from putting on overalls which are called munyeletu to being billionaires. Those are the issues which we need to investigate –

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Member, can you translate what you just said? Let me also advise you to use civil language in the House.

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, Singapore is where it is today because –

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

I asked you to translate what you said earlier about something that some people used to wear, according to you.

 

Mr Michelo: There is an overall which is called munyeletu. It is a blue overall which has no buttons. That is what I meant.

 

Madam Chairperson, Singapore is where it is today because of exerting much energy towards high profile cases involving ministers, permanent secretaries and even the President. Investigators work freely and can investigate any case.

 

Madam Chairperson, we urge the ACC to investigate the Eurobond which was contracted under the PF. It must also investigate the Presidential Empowerment Fund which is going on right now in other provinces. It should avoid small cases. People who are stealing chickens must not be investigated first. Instead, it must investigate the bigger cases which involve ba mwankole, the real criminals. This is what the ACC must do at the moment, otherwise this country –

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Madam Chairperson, allow me to put it to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) that it should be on the lookout, as the country heads for the polls next year, for politically inclined corruption whistle-blowers. By this, I mean that next year, there will be an increased temptation from politically exposed people to outdo each other using the ACC. They will walk into the ACC offices to make false reports in an attempt to outdo each other. This could be at various levels including councillorship, mayoral and even presidential levels.

 

Madam Chairperson, the people of Chimwemwe would like to ask the ACC to share with the nation why the country is recording reduced numbers of people offering themselves as whistle-blowers.

 

Madam Chairperson, my concern is that people are now afraid to go to the ACC to report suspected corrupt practices because the information is quickly getting to the suspects or the people who are being reported. In some cases, probably, even before the whistle-blower gets to his/her home. So, the ACC should come out clean on that issue.

 

Madam Chairperson, thirdly, the ACC should consider it a priority to improve our country’s corruption perception index which some on-line blogs have put Zambia at number 113 out of 180 countries surveyed. The ACC should address this by drawing a robust plan and execute it so that we can improve the countries percentage ranking.

 

Madam Chairperson, it should not be a priority for the ACC to just arrest suspected corrupt people but instead it should take it upon itself to help the Government identify red tape. The too many bureaucracies in Governance institutions, both in private and public, which are actually explaining the inducement of people engaging in corrupt practices. So, the ACC should help the Government to identify which areas should be worked on so that corruption is controlled.

 

Madam Chairperson, popularisation of the integrity committees is another aspect that I would like to talk about. The people of Chimwemwe Constituency would like to urge the ACC to popularise the integrity committees now that there is adequate funding. We have seen this in local authorities but it should be extended to other Government institutions, and this include the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) and other electoral bodies. The beauty with having integrity committees is that you reduce the percentage of people disputing election results. We have been following the election results in the United States of America (USA), where somebody has refused to concede defeat even where there is no evidence of electoral fraud. However, if this integrity committee aspect was popularised in the USA, somebody would have conceded by now.

 

Madam Chairperson, lastly the people of Chimwemwe constituency would like to put it to the ACC that they should form a task force. They should engage the office of Her Honour the Vice-President to form a task force to pursue the people who have been cited in the Auditor-General’s reports. I would like to believe that at some point, the Vice-President had made a directive that the Auditor-General’s Report must be released simultaneously to Parliament, the ACC and the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). I think there was a statement to that effect. Therefore, I would like to urge the ACC to follow-up the good gesture from Her Honour the Vice-President and the Government. Therefore, we will start seeing a situation where we are fighting corruption, objectively.

 

I thank you.

 

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Chairperson, the Anti- Corruption Commission (ACC) is a very important institution in our country. In supporting this Vote, I would also like to thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the statement given.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to remind our officers, particularly in the ACC to be up-front with logistical challenges that they are faced with so that they can be able to meet the aspirations of the Zambian people. It is noted that human resource and transport are some of their challenges. The fleet of their transport also needs to be revisited. It is my hope that as they get funded, they would be able to look at that.

 

Madam Chairperson, the other aspect is centralising their work. They are at provincial level but you will note that corruption is not just in the provincial capital or the capital city. It may happen anywhere and so, it becomes expensive on their part to traverse the whole province. As they get funded and get more human resource, they will reach out to all areas as it is important.

 

Madam Chairperson, Zambian people hate corruption and this is why some political parties would like to use the term “corruption” so that they leverage themselves into power. They know that Zambians hate corruption and they are able to mention that a particular party is corrupt. However, when you ask them to explain the conflict of interest, they do not want to talk about it.

 

Madam Chairperson, the important issue is that we must be able to capacitate the ACC. To the officers in the ACC, it is important that the Zambian people see results. Since the inception of the ACC, they have had support from partners and from the Government. However, from 2015, that stream seems to have gone down and, therefore, depend heavily on the public pace here in Zambia through taxpayers money. As this money comes, ensure that whoever is corrupt is brought to book and is prosecuted. We want to see results. As a member of the Patriotic Front (PF), I would want to see that we fight corruption. The President has not hidden this fact. Many times, he sat in that chair where you are sitting, Madam, lamented, not “ramanted” like some people from the Eastern Province would say.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is lamented.

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

 Hon. Member, why are you bringing the people from the Eastern Province into your debate?

 

Dr Malama: Madam Chairperson, I heard one person from the Eastern Province who said “ramented”. It is lamented. His Excellency the President has lamented! I am not talking about the President though I know he is from the Eastern Province but it is not my time to hit at –

 

Interruptions  

 

Dr Malama: Madam, I also know that he is from the Copperbelt Province because his accent is clear. So, he is not the one I am talking about. I am talking about the lamentation that His Excellency the President has made and he has not hidden the fact there is corruption in this country. Seated where he sits, the President would many a time, want to see to it that it is fought so that the PF Government achieves what it wants to see, like the building of roads, hospitals, and bridges. In Kanchibiya the PF Government has constructed roads from Chambeshi to Chinkobo, and also schools. I am grateful that the hon. Minister of Finance is ensuring that the public pace is looked at in a frugal manner. That is good. You are ensuring that the resources are efficiently used. It is not easy but please, keep it up!

 

Madam Chairperson, on the other side, the ACC should help the PF Government and the people of Zambia to ensure that those who are corrupt are brought to book. This should not be rhetoric. We must live it. When we do what His Excellency the President mentioned, the Zambia we want will be attained. We are going to attain the Zambia we want.

 

Madam Chairperson, I have seen the indicator light turn red –

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa): Madam Chairperson, the people of Kasempa are highly concerned about the failed service delivery in the water sector. We still cry for water and health facilities. There are no drugs in hospitals, and agriculture and food security are a far cry. They are not anywhere close to where they are supposed to be, for the satisfaction of the people.

 

Madam, with regard to education, there are no desks in schools and the children sit on the floor. Somebody has to donate chalk to the schools because there is nothing. The grant of only K1000 is difficult to get unlike how it was in the past when it was an automatic disbursement. Nowadays, they have to cycle many times to their headquarters at the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) office to ask for chalk. Road rehabilitation and other infrastructure developments are issues of service delivery that Her Honour the Vice-President spoke about that get affected by corruption.           

 

Madam Chairperson, corruption has very much to do with theft from the members of the public. That is what it is. Corruption is stealing from the members of the public like children and the unborn children whose mothers cannot access drugs from the hospitals.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me not belabour what has already been said.

 

Sir, I would like to go to the list that Hon. Lufuma left over and what this K72 million budget should be attending to. Part of this money should have been focused on cross-sector collaboration, which should have directed its attention to the prevention of corruption. The prevention of corruption is not exclusive to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), but also needs the involvement of the Ministry of General Education, and the Ministry of Health, without mentioning all sectors. Corruption prevention is about supervision which is supposed to come from Cabinet Office and Public Service Management Division (PSMD). If only there was enough attention at that level, in terms of supervision of how public resources are used, then we would get to a place where the burden that goes to the ACC will be greatly reduced.

 

Madam Chairperson, we would like to see a moment when the Secretary to the Cabinet will pick the rod to punish civil servants and encourage the reward system in all ministries. There is a gap in terms of closing the gate while the horses are still inside the stables. Unfortunately, we are leaving this to a situation where we close the stables when the horses have already gone out.

 

Madam Chairperson, some of these resources can go back to the ministries so that we stop the leakage that takes place there because that is where corruption is. We do not have to let people behave badly by getting involved in corruption and stealing. The Auditor-General’s Reports bring out these issues but there are no action plans put in place for the following years to ensure that public finance management and procurement are done within the rules of accountability and transparency. If we did that, we would see the burden that goes to the ACC reduce and the monies which we should allocate to this Vote will also reduce because it will be left in the ministries where corruption takes place.

 

Madam Chairperson, the people of Kasempa are looking forward to a moment when public leaders will condemn statements such as, uubomba mwibala, alya mwimbala, and condemn statements from leaders such as tabatila –

 

The Chairperson:  Hon. Member, what does that mean?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Chairperson, it means those who work in the field should collect produce from the fields without permission.

 

Madam Chairperson, the people of Kasempa who have been denied water are looking forward to a time when statements from public leaders such as, tabatila kwiba fyonse, kulyamo utunono, would be condemned and frowned on.

 

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, again, what does that mean? The official language is English.

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Chairperson, it means that even if you have to steal, do not steal too much.

 

Madam Chairperson, those are statements that we have heard from public leaders in the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, and we would like to frown on such kind of statements.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for an opportunity given to the people of Chilubi to contribute to the debate on this Vote.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would like to address myself to the issue of understanding what corruption is. I think many of us do not understand what corruption is. That is why we want to point fingers even at wrong people.  That is why, even the corruption fight for those who have risen to fight corruption does not receive the necessary support. My understanding of corruption is that there is grand corruption, institutional corruption, and petty corruption. When we dilute corruption and reduce it to Bemba proverbs such as, uubomba mwibala, alya mwibala, which simply means; if you spend eight hours in a field, that is where you are supposed to feed from, either through a salary or something like that. However, I have seen that people have been misunderstanding some of these proverbs.

 

Madam, what I mean is that corruption concerns all of us. For example, if an hon. Member from the United Party for National Development (UPND) abuses the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), that is corruption.

 

Hon. Member: Iwe, iwe!

 

Mr Fube: Madam Chairperson, the moment we start addressing corruption in that manner and having that particular mind-set, that is when we are going to defeat corruption. If we want to feel that corruption belongs to state actors and not to non-state actors, then we are wrong because the two interact with each other every day. Some things we refer to as corruption may not even be corruption. It is not necessarily Government workers that could have initiated a particular corrupt act, but those outside the Government corridors. When we want to reduce corruption to only state actors and overlook what is happening elsewhere, then we are wrong.

 

Madam Chairperson, just a few minutes ago, we were talking about the Non-Governmental Organisation (NGO) Act. We know that corruption is even in Church, but we cannot specifically point out a particular church because that would be bad if that particular church has not been investigated. We know that there is corruption in NGOs and political parties. So, when looking at corruption, we need to broaden the scope of understanding that corruption is grand, institutional, and petty.

 

Madam Chairperson, if you commit an offence at a roadblock, sometimes it is not a police officer that initiates corruption. When you are very busy and you want to go, then you say, “Ok, I do not want to be inconvenienced, here is a K100.” That is corruption. To think that only hon. Ministers and those in Government practice corruption, is wrong.

 

Madam Chairperson, when we are arguing about the Budget, we need to broaden the scope of understating what corruption is. That is the starting point. We will then lessen the burden of where the vote on corruption is supposed to be and where we are supposed to concentrate. The moment we start shooting in the air and nothing comes out of it, then we would be missing the point.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would also like to emphasise that uubomba mwibala, alya mwibala is a proverb that means that, where you spend your man-hours and time is where you are supposed to reap from. I think this proverb has been widely misunderstood.

 

Hon. Member: Niwe kawalala, niwe kawalala!

 

Mr Fube: Madam Chairperson, I think the issue of corruption should not be sacrificed on the altar of political expediency. This is what has killed this nation. When most people want to talk about corruption, they want to play politics on corruption which concerns everybody. Corruption concerns me, Hon. Jere, and everybody. It will be better for us to start appreciating the fact that corruption concerns everybody. It is a daily and on-going thing, and not a one off. Only when we do that are we going to wake up and avoid always pointing fingers at Government officials as being corrupt, out of malice and jealousy, because they are performing. Whenever a project is performing well, it is said that it is has been acquired through corruption. That must stop.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mrs Wina: Madam Chairperson, indeed the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) is an important institution of good governance, as one hon. Member outlined to the House. However, there have been a number of concerns expressed by hon. Members of Parliament regarding inadequate funding to the institution and the need for human resource enhancement. I can assure the House that this institution has tried to accomplish a lot with less.

 

Madam Chairperson, on the independence of the ACC, let me assure the House that the ACC is an independent institution and the Patriotic Front (PF) leaders do not exert any influence on its operations. The institution operates independently of the Government and the party in power. There is no interference, whatsoever. The ACC has established a very good rapport with the whistle-blowers in various institutions. The institution has benefited from this engagement with the whistle-blowers. It has instituted investigations and successfully prosecuted suspects as a result of information sourced from the whistle-blowers. Currently, the ACC is working at strengthening policies on protecting whistle-blowers.

 

Madam Chairperson, the ACC has taken a very keen interest in public procurement institutions and has been prosecuting offences relating to procurement, for example, manipulation of quotations, duplication of payments, failure to declare interest, payments of substandard goods particularly those delivered to the Government and non-delivery of goods and services already paid for. These are the achievement that this institution has made and the results are there to be seen. 

 

Madam Chairperson, the ACC has a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with the Auditor-General’s Office and reports are forwarded upon preparation. The ACC then studies the said reports and establishes cases relating to its mandate. Therefore, the ACC has a role to play and is working in collaboration with the Auditor-General’s Office.

 

Madam Chairperson, the ACC is an institution that all Zambians should support and its work relates to the well-being of this country. It is for this reason that hon. Members of Parliament have expressed concern on how this institution should be supported and I look forward to them in supporting the budget for the ACC.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Vote 87 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, please, note that the two Votes, Vote 11 – Zambia Police and Vote 10 – Zambia Police Service Commission, will be considered together.

 

VOTE 11 – (Zambia Police – K1,584,574,523) and VOTE 10 – (Zambia Police Service Commission – K9,072,681)

 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Madam Chairperson, I want to start by thanking you for according me this opportunity to present the budget policy statement, on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the period 1^st January to 31^st December, 2021, for Vote 11 – Zambia Police and Vote 10 – Zambia Police Service Commission.

 

Madam Chairperson, before I deliver my ministerial statement, allow me to congratulate the Minister of Finance, Hon. Bwalya Ng’andu, for an aggressive and all –

 

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, before you deliver your policy statement. I am correcting you because you said that before you deliver your ministerial statement. I asked for a policy statement.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Chairperson, thank you very much.

 

Madam Chairperson, the mandate and the functions of the Zambia Police Service as outlined under Article 193 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, states that the Zambia Police Service shall:

 

1. protect life and property;
2. preserve peace and maintain law and order;
3. ensure the security of the people;
4. detect and prevent crime;
5. uphold the Bill of Rights;
6. foster and promote good relationships with the Defence Force, other national security services and members of society; and
7. perform any other functions as prescribed.

 

Performance and Achievements

 

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service in the year 2019 and the first quarter of 2020, performed well despite the challenges posed by incidences of gassing experienced in some parts of the country and the outbreak of the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. The Zambia Police Service nevertheless continues to improve its operations by acquiring modern equipment in order to enhance security in the country.

 

Madam Chairperson, other achievements made during the period under review include the construction of thirty-eight modern police stations in various districts across the country and two modern office buildings in Chinsali District in Muchinga Province while another building in Solwezi, North-Western Province, is at 60 per cent completion. The service also received 1,530 new housing units from the Ministry of Home Affairs.

 

Madam Chairperson, in an effort to improve efficiency and enhance security, the ministry is implementing the project called safe city. Once this project is implemented, it will enhance crime detection and prevention.

 

Madam Chairperson, as a strategy to prevent crime, a number of activities were conducted, such as sensitisation on crime prevention related programmes through community radio and television stations, increased coverage of policing in the country through motorised and foot patrols, as well as participatory community policing.

 

Challenges Faced

 

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service also encountered some challenges. In the period under review, it faced a number of challenges to adequately combat crime. These included, among others:

 

1. inadequate and dilapidated offices;
2. low staffing levels;
3. inadequate information technology infrastructure; and
4. inadequate transport.

 

Madam Chairperson, further, the emergence of new platforms of crime such as cyber-crime has continued to pose as a challenge.

 

2021 Policy Focus

 

Madam Chairperson, the focus for the Zambia Police Service during the 2021/2023 Medium Term Expenditure Framework will be to maintain law and order, especially as we head towards the 2021 General Elections. The Zambia Police Service together with other security wings will continue to participate in the joint permanent commissions on defence and security to strengthen border security among others.

 

Madam Chairperson, going forward, in a bid to reduce officers from exposure to cash, the service working with the Smart Zambia Institute have included the facilitation of a cashless payment system on the Government service bus, which will be rolled-out countrywide, and the Inspector-General of Police has gone to every province to ensure that this facility is rolled out.

 

Madam Chairperson, the proposed 2021 budget allocation for the Zambia Police Service stands at K1,584,574,523 compared to K1,380,972,470 in 2020, representing an increase of 6 per cent. Out of the proposed allocation for programmes, K902,583,703 has been allocated for crime prevention and policing services, K284,4893,417 for crime detection and investigation services, K263,513,736 for police technical and specialised services and K133,983,667 for management and support services.

 

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, I would like to assure hon. Members of this august House that the proposed allocations to Vote 11 − Zambia Police Service, will be applied prudently so that our country continues to enjoy peace and security. This august House will agree with me that peace and security are a prerequisite for socio-economic development. I, therefore, urge hon. Members of this august House to support the proposed allocation to Vote 11 − Zambia Police Service.

 

As guided, Madam Chairperson, I will proceed to present the policy statement for Vote 10 − Zambia Police Service Commission.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service Commission is a constitutional and statutory body mandated to provide human resource functions to the Zambia Police Service under Constitutional Amendment Act No. 2 of 2016 and the Service Commissions Act No. 10 of 2016.

 

The Performance and Achievements of the Commission

 

Madam Chairperson, during the period under review, the Zambia Police Service Commission was funded the sum of K6,175,341 to execute a number of programmes guided by its functions.

 

Processing of Cases

 

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service Commission processed a total of 1,738 cases. The nature of cases included staff promotions, confirmations, acting appointments, transfers, retirements, discipline, secondments, reinstatements, resignations, compensations, as well as contracts.

 

Challenges

 

Madam Chairperson, the lack of computerised Human Resources Management System at the Commission continues to pose a challenge in the maintenance, referencing and retrieval of personal information for decision-making. It, therefore, goes without saying that there is an urgent need to partner with the Smart Zambia Institute to computerise all personnel records.

 

Policy Focus for 2021

 

Madam Chairperson the proposed allocation for 2021 is K9,072,681, broken down in the following programmes:

 

                     Programme                                                     Amount (K)

 

                     Human Resource Management                       3,371,951

 

                     Governance and Standards                             2,133,106

 

                     Management and Support Services                3,567,624

 

Human Resource Management

 

Madam Chairperson, this will involve the implementation of the new organisational structure. The resources under this programme will go towards personnel emoluments. Further, the Zambia Police Service Commission will, in the year 2021, move away from the use of Post Identification Number (Post IDs) on the payroll system. The use of Post IDs has negatively affected the progression of police officers in the ranking structure. Furthermore, we want to ensure that we reactivate the systems that monitor the progression of officers from any point of entry until they conclude their tour of duty.

 

Governance and Standards

 

Madam Chairperson, the commission oversees the establishment of Human Resource Management Committees in the Police Service, following the enactment of the Service Commission Act No.10 of 2016. These committees are expected to implement and provide guidance in the management of human resource across the Police Service.

 

Management and Support Services

 

Madam Chairperson, the commission intends to build capacity in its officers at the secretariat. This will contribute towards the development of the individual’s personal development and the commission as a whole.

 

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, with the refocusing of the Commission’s mandate from a highly transactional role to a strategic monitoring role, the commission will require additional funding to support effective performance. It is our considered view that the resources be provided in the 2021 Budget for the Zambia Police Service Commission in order to implement the much needed human resource reforms.

 

Madam Chairperson, I now recommend both Vote 10 – Zambia Police Service and Vote 11 – Zambia Police Service Commission, for favourable consideration and approval by this august House.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Evg. Shabula (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Chairperson, I thank you –

 

Prof Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

Madam Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Prof Lungwangwa was inaudible.

 

Madam Chairperson: Professor, are you there?

 

We will proceed with Evg. Shabula.

 

Evg. Shabula: Madam Chairperson, from the onset, I would like to state that I support the 2020 Budget for the Zambia Police Service although I have a few concerns and observations.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service exists to enforce law and order, protect life and property in the nation. However, the Zambia Police Service under the Patriotic Front (PF) regime has lost professionalism due to the following factors:

 

1. political interferences;
2. tribalism;
3. cadrerism;
4. nepotism;
5. corruption;
6. victimisation;
7. low morale among police officers; and
8. unreasonable punitive transfers of officers across the nation due to political persecutions.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is disheartening to see the Zambia Police misplacing priorities by purchasing armoured cars and teargas to brutalise citizens in the name of restoring law and order. The use of armoured cars and teargas is synonymous with tyrannical and dictatorial regimes and repugnant to democratic tenets.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government does not care about the youth, women, people living with disability –

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Madam.

 

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Chairperson, my point of order is very brief and I will go straight into it because of time.

 

Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Itezhi-tezhi who is debating allowed to be reading as opposed to be debating?

 

Madam Chairperson, I know who gave him those notes. Is he in order to be reading notes given to him by his president?

 

 I seek your serious ruling.

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: From where I am sitting, I see nothing wrong with the hon. Member consulting copious notes. I want to believe that that is what the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi is doing. 

 

You may proceed, Evg. Shabula.

 

Evg. Shabula: Madam Chairperson, thank you.

 

In fact, if I sat for an English test with Tutwa, he would fail.

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

Evg. Shabula: Madam Chairperson, the Zambia Police has bought armoured cars and teargas –

 

Mr Lufuma: On a point of order, Madam.

 

The Chairperson: There is another point of order by Mr Lufuma.

 

Hon. Members, see how much time we lose with these points of order. The moment we allow them, then the flood-gates open. This is the last point of order.

 

A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Chairperson, I am very grateful. My point of order is pretty urgent and needs serious consideration by the Chair.

 

Madam Chairperson, now that we have completed the mobile issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs) throughout the republic, I am wondering why the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, who is in charge of this exercise, is quiet instead of coming to this House to brief it on how successful or otherwise this exercise was and giving us the detailed statistics province by province, district by district and, if possible, constituency by constituency.

 

Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Minister in order to keep quiet and not come to this august House to inform hon. Members of Parliament and, through them, the nation at large after such a major exercise?

 

Madam Chairperson, I need your serious ruling.

 

The Chairperson: You can prompt the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to give you that information through a Question for urgent answer. Simply file a question for urgent answer and the hon. Minister will be able to give you the responses you are requesting now through this point of order. You can use that facility. That is my ruling.

 

Evg. Shabula may proceed.

 

Evg. Shabula: Madam Chairperson, I was saying that a lot of money was spent on buying armoured cars and teargas instead of spending it on problems that this nation is facing. This PF Government has no heart for the youth, the women and the disabled people. That is why it thought that by introducing what is now a bygone, it would be able to get some of these things. I have seen people here lamenting about the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, which had died and gone under.

 

Madam, the issue here is not Bill No. 10 of 2019. It is President Lungu himself who has failed to provide employment for the people of Zambia. He has failed to bring the youth into Parliament. He has failed to enact a law to ensure that a certain percentage is given to women’s representation so that they come into Parliament. He has failed to appoint disabled people to come into Parliament. Not even appointments to parastatal bodies have been done. The President has got all the authority and power –

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

_______

 

HOUSE RESUMED

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

(Progress reported)

 

_______

 

The House adjourned at 1657 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 13^th November, 2020.

 

____________