Friday, 10^th November, 2017

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an indication of the Business it will consider next week.

 

Sir, on Tuesday, 14^th November, 2017, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

 

Head 21 – Loans and Investments – Ministry of Finance; and

 

Head 37 – Ministry of Finance.

 

Sir, On Wednesday, 15^th November, 2017, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if they will be any. This will be followed by presentation of the Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the Estimates of Expenditure for Head 38 – Ministry of Development Planning.

 

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 16^th November, 2017, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

 

Head 45 – Ministry of Community Development and Social Services; and

 

Head 46 – Ministry of Health.

 

Sir, on Friday, 17^th November, 2017, the Business of the House will begin with the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider Estimates of Expenditure for Head 51 – Ministry of Transport and Communication.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

_______

 

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President in respect with the operations progress of the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) in Kalabo. At the moment, the ZAWA officials are beating up people indiscriminately without any permission from any legal practitioners. They enter the homes and beat up the occupants. What is the Government doing to protect those who are being brutalised by the ZAWA officers in Kalabo and Shang’ombo?

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, ZAWA officers are Government officers who should abide by the law of the country. Therefore, they are not above the law. As a result, they cannot go on a rampage to harass the people in Kalabo or elsewhere, where there are game management areas.

 

Sir, the ZAWA officers are dependent on the good will of the people in these areas so that together, ZAWA officers and the communities can protect our animals in the GMAs or ordinarily in all our game parks. So, this issue should be taken very seriously, and I would like to advise the people that are being harassed to report these matters to the police in Kalabo.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Miyutu: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Siwanzi (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, the announcement by the working Patriotic Front (PF) Government to rehabilitate the Great North Road, upgrade Nakonde/Kanyala Road to bituminous standards and upgrade the 20 km of the townships roads in Nakonde has excited the people of Nakonde. People are anxious because they want to know when the contractor is going to move on site. With the onset of the rains, some sections of the Great North Road become impassable. This is the reason for their anxiety.        

     

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, when the necessary arrangements have been concluded, the contractor will move on site, and start working on the township roads and other related roads in Nakonde.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker …

 

Mr Ngulube: On point of order, Sir.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, take a seat. I am sure those of you who have been here for some time now know that a long time ago, I ruled that I will not allow points of order during the Vice-President’s Question Time.  We have very limited time, and it has to be used efficiently. We do not want people to come back through points of order because they want to have a second bite at the cherry. The hon. Member for Kabompo may continue.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, why did the Government find it necessary to mobilise armed police clad in uniforms and masks to attack a private home of a prominent Zambian? The police gassed all the occupants of this home, looted and damaged property.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Lufuma: In Her Honour the Vice-President’s opinion, is this not State sponsored thuggery, looting, terrorism and an abrogation of human rights of the individual that was concerned? In fact, the police could have been sent …

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, just ask your question.

 

Mr Lufuma: Sir, in the Vice-President’s opinion, is that not State sponsored terrorism and an abrogation of human rights of this particular individual called Hakainde Hichilema?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Speaker: Order! Let us have some order!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this is one of the alarmist statements that we keep feeding to the world out there. I do not know the catalogue of events that the hon. Member is talking about. As such, I cannot comment on this particular question because I do not know where it is coming from, and where these events have taken place for me to speak on behalf of the police.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, farmers countrywide supplied maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), up to now, they have not been paid. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government has even started buying maize at a low price.

 

Mr Mutale: Question!

 

Mr Michelo: The Government has failed to pay farmers even at that low price. When is the Government going to pay farmers countrywide for the maize which they supplied this year?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order! Let us have some order there!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there are payment schedules for farmers that supplied maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and the payments are ongoing. The Ministry of Finance has been releasing funds to the FRA to continue paying all the farmers in the country, and this will be done. It cannot be done in one day as it is an ongoing process.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance has been grappling with financing the National Budget and yet, the cronies associated to the Patriotic Front (PF) have the propensity to abuse resources, and get tenders from the Government without supplying the items they tender for. Apart from issues to do with the fire tenders, ambulances and road contracts, we have another scandal pertaining to the supply of dredging machines which the people of Luapula Province and the Western Province and other areas that are affected by floods have been asking for. The Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) awarded a contract to a company that we all know is associated to the PF at a tender sum of US$11 million, but no dredging machines have been supplied. This has been revealed by the Auditor-General’s report.

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: What is Her Honour the Vice-President’s comment on such issues?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government will take keen interest in that matter, and get to the bottom of it. The Government will also take interest in the issue of earthmoving pieces of equipment that were not supplied to some councils and constituencies in some parts of the Southern Province as well as other parts of Zambia. This is a serious matter because it is a drain on the resources of the country, and whoever is found wanting, will have to pay the penalty.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, huge pieces of land are being bought by foreigners, displacing many Zambians without compensation. His Excellency the President of Zambia has repeatedly called for the reviewed Land Act and Land Policy to be presented to Cabinet and Parliament to replace the Land Act of 1995. Therefore, when will the Government bring the reviewed Land Act and Land Policy to Cabinet and Parliament?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, owning land is a sovereign right for Zambians. Indeed, land is an important resource for production. So, Zambians should have more chances to own land than foreigners who come to our country because we know that in some countries, foreigners are not allowed to own land. This is one thing that has really preoccupied the mind of this Government. The Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources and Environmental Protection has been very busy in the past few months looking at the Land Policy as well as reviewing the Land Act so that we come up with suitable mechanisms on how to manage and administer land in the country for the benefit of our people.

 

Mr Speaker, the delay has been due to the wide consultation of stakeholders, including chiefs, whom we have to assure that the Government has no intention to take away their powers over land. I can assure the House that the National Land Policy as well as the reviewed Land Act will be brought to Parliament as soon as the ministry has done all the necessary consultations, including consulting the House of Chiefs.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, Chinsali, being the provincial headquarters for Muchinga, Province, is expected to have all regional offices for the Government departments. However, the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) has maintained its office in Mpika. I have made several follow-ups with RTSA and the hon. Minister of Transport and Communication. They said the reason why the offices are in Mpika is that they cannot find offices to rent in Chinsali, which is not true.

 

Is there any way the Government can help us to push RTSA to expedite the establishment of an office in Chinsali so that it can be accessed by the people in Muchinga Province?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is an administrative arrangement among the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), the provincial administration in Chinsali and the district administration in Mpika. However, arrangements are being made to find an office for RTSA in Chinsali while maintaining the one in Mpika so that Mpika is not deprived of RTSA services in that regard.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, the people of Kanchibiya, particularly those of Senior Chief Kopa are wondering why construction works at Kopa, Chewe Shimfwamba and John Mubanga Day Secondary Schools in the areas of Chief Luchembe and Chief Mpepo have stalled irrespective of the assurances from the Ministry of General Education that works will continue.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the secondary school in Kanchibiya, Chief Kopa’s area, is not the only secondary school whose infrastructure construction has stalled. There are quite a number around the country, and that is why the 2018 Budget is addressing this issue.

 

Education is important for our children and our country. We have to make sure that all the secondary schools that were left halfway are completed possibly next year. We created a new district in Kanchibiya to address some of these issues and so that the children in Kanchibiya do not have to travel long distances to go to Mpika to access secondary education.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I am happy Her Honour the Vice-President has said that education is key to development. I have identified one problem in this country, that is, shortage of teachers in primary schools in rural areas. The number of teachers the Government is going to recruit is not sufficient to cater for schools in rural areas. Some schools in rural areas have one teacher teaching Grade 1 to Grade 7 classes. Does the Government have a deliberate policy to address this serious problem of shortage of teachers in the rural parts of the country in the next Budget?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think this Government of the Patriotic Front (PF) has done fairly well when it comes to recruitment of staff for our schools and our health sector. Additionally, ...

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order on the left!

 

The Vice-President: ... the Government has decided to decentralise the recruitment of teachers to districts. This will facilitate the recruitment of more teachers from those rural areas to teach in the areas where they reside because in the past, there was a tendency of teachers opting to teach in urban centres at the expense of our rural schools.

 

I was an hon. Member of Parliament for a rural constituency, and I know what the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i is talking about. This Government is addressing this issue squarely so that the type of education that is prevalent in urban areas should be the same type of education that our children in rural areas access.

 

That is why the Government has gone even further to construct communication towers in all parts of the country, especially rural areas, so that our children in rural areas can have access to the internet just like the children in urban centres.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr A. C. Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, what will the Government do about the delayed water and sanitation project which Mulonga Water and Sewerage Company has not implemented even though they have been funded over 250 million Euros, and have done nothing for the last one and a half year?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am disappointed to hear that a utility company is delaying spending money and not providing services. We will instruct the Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection to delve into this matter to see where the handicap is.

 

Sir, the water and sewerage companies in this country have a duty to provide the best services to our people so that we are able to provide clean drinking water to residents. This to avoid situations of cholera like the ones we have seen in Lusaka. 

 

The Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection should find out what is going on in this water utility centre. They should check on all water utility companies in the country to see why they are not providing the best services that they should.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Evangelist Shabula (Itezhi-Tezhi): Mr Speaker, the Office of the Auditor-General has produced a financial report, sadly, it has revealed glaring financial irregularities. I would like to know what the position of the Government is in terms of these irregularities.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Auditor-General’s Report year in year out has come out with inducements for public workers misappropriating funds. The President has been very categorical in this particular report of 2015/16 in that the investigative wings of the Government will delve into this matter. I can assure this House that perhaps for the first time in a long time, we are going to see some arrests of officers who misused the Government funds.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President will agree with me that access to good health facilities is actually a right to every Zambian. Her Government has promised, and has been telling everyone that they would not want to leave anyone behind. I would like to ask her honour a question that is of concern for the people of Zambezi District. The district hospital that is in existence in this district has been there since 1965. The same hospital has become so old that it can no longer be improved or renovated With that kind of a dilapidated infrastructure, I expect the Government to have come up with a position by now. Could she explain to the people of Zambezi East who are now asking how long will they wait for a new district hospital?

 

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is why the people of Zambezi East opted to elect the current Member of Parliament so that he can solve some of these problems for them.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: I, therefore, urge the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East to engage the Ministry of Health so that he gets the first hand information on how this ministry is implementing its action plan. For all I know is that all the districts in the country will have district hospitals. Where there are old district hospitals, the old ones will be rehabilitated so that they come up to a level commensurate with the standards that the ministry and the Government want to set in the country, including provision of equipment in the district hospitals.

 

Therefore, as far as I know, the work at the Ministry of Health to upgrade the district hospitals, including Zambezi West hospital will be taken care of.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Certainly, this is directed to Zambezi East.

 

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, the people of Chienge would like to find out why the Government has gone silent on the International Monetary Fund (IMF) bailout from the time we came to Parliament during the 2017 Budget. The IMF bailout was announced, and we are about to end the 2017 Budget, but the nation and the people of Chienge, in particular, are worried, and would like to know what the terms are. Would she tell the people of Chienge and the nation why the IMF has not come to bailout the country?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to thank the people of Chienge for accommodating asylum seekers from across the border. This is at a great expense and sacrifice. I thank the chiefs, in particular, for having provided pieces of land for that exercise.

 

With regard to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), Mr Speaker, the IMF is not here to bailout Zambia. We have our own programme, and we are able to raise resources, but we just need extra support to the budget system so that programmes are not delayed.

 

Mr Speaker, the Minister of Finance, at a later date, will be asked to come to the House to give the House the information on the status of the negotiations with the IMF.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, during the past week, some tabloids of Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday carried some information on people in the international community, including Zambia, that are investing their resources in what are called as ‘tax havens’ or ‘paradise havens’.

 

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ng’onga: One of the opposition leaders has been mentioned as one of those having invested in this area. Mr Speaker, each time there are elections, we are asked to declare our assets on oath. So, the people of Kaputa would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President the legality of this particular leader who has not declared his assets, especially those that are invested outside the country.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: So what?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it may be a challenge for a leader to make …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The Vice-President: … a declaration on assets that are stashed away in offshore accounts for one simple reason that the offshore accounts are kept to accumulate more income or to hide money so that the country of origin does not benefit from that huge sum of money.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

 

Her Honour the Vice-President, you may resume your seat.

 

Let us have some order in the House.

 

May Her Honour the Vice- President continue, please.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this money is usually moved into private accounts and is mainly, as I have said earlier, for purposes of accumulation of more funds and also to hide money to evade tax. This is why the governments globally have taken keen interest in transactions which are not transparent to ensure that the nationals pay tax in their countries of origin. Also, it is for this reason that the paradise papers have generated much interest throughout the world for exposing the very rich who are not paying taxes in their countries and are hiding money in offshore accounts.

 

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

 

The Vice-President: Sir, in some countries, tax evasion is a crime which is taken very seriously. In all countries, central banks and ministries of finance always take interest in these matters. It is for the people of Zambia to judge the morality of some of our leaders, what they do, how they conduct their personal affairs, how they conduct public affairs and whether how they conduct their businesses is for the benefit of the country or not. How, then, can a leader make a declaration of money of this type when there is no transparency whatsoever.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, additionally, there are issues connected to offshore accounts. We know that in some countries this money has been connected to illicit activities such as money laundering, terrorism, and funding mercenaries to destabilise countries in order to dispose of legitimate governments. There are many activities tied to these offshore accounts which governments, all over the world, including Zambia, should be interested in.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, the Government intervened when the Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC), Mopani Copper Mine and the unions were discussing the issue of electricity tariffs. Why is the Government not intervening in the issue at Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) for our people on the Copperbelt?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Eh ma KCM!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this matter ...

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order on the left!

 

The Vice-President: ... was elaborated by the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security in her budget presentation.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order on the left!

 

The Vice-President: This Government cares for the miners, and will do everything possible to secure the jobs for these miners as well as their rights as workers for the mining companies. As a matter of fact, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security and the Hon. Chief Whip are travelling to the Copperbelt this afternoon to meet with workers and the mining companies. This shows that this Government cares, and is listening to the pleas of the workers on the Copperbelt and elsewhere.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, we were told that King Mswati III came on a private visit to cement and improve brotherly relations. However, we are reliably informed that he came to cut a deal to bring a fourth mobile operator, and some technocrats were flown to Mfuwe to discuss this issue.

 

Mr Mutale: Question!

 

Dr Kambwili: Can Her Honour the Vice-President assure this House that in the near future, we will not be told that King Mswati’s company has been given a licence to bring a fourth mobile operator against Vodafone which is already here and has been trying to get a licence?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Roan has been part of the Government, as a Minister ...

 

Mr Kalaba: In foreign affairs.

 

The Vice-President: ... of Foreign Affairs for that matter, so he knows how to bring these issues ...

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The Vice-President: The issue that the hon. Member for Roan is talking about is new to me. I am not aware of this deal. However, I know that when a King or President of another country visits Zambia, it is the highest level of tourist attraction that the country can get. We should be thankful instead of starting to castigate him for why he was here.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Sir, some of these issues should be investigated further before accusations that cannot be substantiated are made. This country is open to developments in mobile communication and the doors are open to other companies so that we can have a competitive market and the price of mobile service provision in the country can go down. However, to start castigating a Head of State from another country based on hearsay is not in the best interest of our country. We are trying to develop good neighbourliness and, of late, the country has seen more visits from Heads of State simply because they hold Zambia in high esteem. Zambia is a peaceful country, despite the malignment by certain quarters. This country enjoys peace in the region, and Africa, in general, appreciates it. Let us keep it that way.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, in the recent past, we have experienced very bad rain patterns, and water has been a challenge countrywide, especially in the rural areas.

 

Dr Kambwili interjected.

 

Mr Zimba: Has the Government come up with a deliberate plan of intervention to alleviate the sufferings of people in terms of sinking boreholes and constructing dams ...

 

Dr Kambwili interjected.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Roan, give space to your colleague to ask his question.

 

Dr Kambwili: Sorry, Mr Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Zimba: Sir, does the Government have any deliberate plan of intervention to alleviate the sufferings of the people in rural areas in terms of drilling boreholes and building dams?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, yes, this Government has a deliberate plan to provide safe drinking water as well as water for our animals in all parts of Zambia, in particular, rural areas. If the hon. Member properly checked in the 2018 Budget, he would see that there are a number of dams which are being constructed in many areas of our country, especially in those provinces and districts that are prone to drought.

 

Sir, secondly, village water is also a big issue on the Government calendar. We want to ensure that by the year 2030, three quarters, if not all Zambians, have access to safe drinking water. So, it is work in progress, and we will continue with this programme to ensure that we minimise  waterborne diseases throughout the country by providing safe drinking water to our people. That is why we were earlier on emphasising the need for better water delivery by our water utility companies throughout the country.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, banks in Zambia today are demanding that all account holders have Tax Payer Identification Numbers (TPIN) by 31^st December, 2017, failure to which the affected bank accounts will be frozen. When is the Government going to come to this House to share more details and benefits of having these TPINs so that we can share the same with our constituents, who may be contemplating rushing to the banks to withdraw their money from their accounts by 31^st December, 2017?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this is a very good business idea that the Government or the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) has introduced because it is beneficial both for the business people and tax department. The Minister of Finance will be requested to make a ministerial statement regarding the issue of TPINs to the House so that Zambians can understand what it means, and what benefits they will accrue from using this system.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, the capacity of agro-farming in the rural constituencies such as Lubansenshi is not being felt. Is there any other plan that the Government can use to ensure that the people are served?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not think I understood the question well, but perhaps, to respond to what I heard, I can say that we need to build capacity of our rural farmers so that they can add value to their productivity in the agriculture sector. Indeed, the Government is taking measures, including employing more extension officers to work with our emerging farmers as well as the peasant farmers on how they can use their land effectively to produce more food for our country. I am sure, this intervention by the Government of engaging more extension farmers will go a long way in boosting agriculture in these rural areas.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

_______

 

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

LARGER GRAIN BORERS IN THE NORTHERN AND EASTERN PROVINCES

 

81. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

 

1. whether the Government was aware of the presence of the Larger Grain Borers in the Northern and Eastern Provinces;

 

1. if so, what measures were being taken to contain the insects;

 

1. what effect the presence of the Larger Grain Borers was going to have on the national food security; and

 

1. whether the presence of the Larger Grain Borers was going to affect the country’s export drive to the neighbouring countries.

 

The Minister of Agriculture (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware of the outbreak of the Larger Grain Borer in the Northern and Eastern provinces of the country. The districts affected are Luwingu and Chilubi in the Northern Province, and Chadiza, Chipata and Katete in the Eastern Province. The following measures have been instituted by the ministry.

 

1. Plant Health Inspectors have been deployed to investigate the reported outbreaks;

 

1. farmers have been advised to treat and destroy infested maize;

 

1. movement of maize stocks from infested districts has been suspended and the infested maize stocks quarantined; and

 

1. the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has also intensified fumigation of all maize that has been stored for strategic food reserves. We have also begun an identification survey of infected grain.

 

Sir, the ministry is preparing information materials on Larger Grain Borers for dissemination to farmers across the country.

 

Mr Speaker, the presence of Larger Grain Borer causes a great risk particularly, at household food security level. The pest has the potential to destroy the maize grain that is not properly stored or fumigated.  Untreated grain usually stored in traditional granaries faces the largest risk.

 

Mr Speaker, finally, the presence of the Larger Grain Borer has the potential to negatively affect the exports of maize to countries in the region, if not contained. Our concern, especially regards maize being bought by the private sector. However, the ministry has put in place the measures I have just highlighted to ensure that the pest is contained.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, the Larger Grain Borer is not a very new pest in this country. We have had it for some time, except that it was put under control through fumigation by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) in almost all the districts, where they keep their crop. What is the ministry doing to capacitate the FRA or if possible, to engage some private sector to help out in terms of fumigating all the grain that is lying outside in the larger depots?

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, at the moment, the outbreak has only been reported in five districts, as I stated earlier on. In fact, in Katete, only ninety-three bags from one stack of maize procured was actually infested, and has since been quarantined. We believe that the situation is under control because this infestation is currently small. However, the ministry, through the Zambia Agriculture Research Institution (ZARI), Department of Plant Quarantine and Phytosanitary Services (DPQS) is doing a nationwide survey to ascertain whether we will have infestations in other places in the country.

 

Sir, it is of great concern, obviously, because even though, at the moment, the infestation is limited, it spreads very quickly if there is any movement of stock across districts. At the moment, it is limited to those districts, and we think it is under control. At this point, the FRA has not engaged any private sector. We will continue to monitor the situation and if things changed for the worse, then we will consider enlisting the private sector to assist with rapid fumigation.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told this House that five districts are affected by this Larger Grain Borer. Is she able to tell this House how much damage the borer has caused in terms of percentage?

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I do not have the exact numbers except for Katete where I said only ninety-three bags were found to have been infested from one stack of maize, and they have since been quarantined. However, the infestation, as stated in the statement, is quite limited in all the districts that are affected. We feel we have responded quite early in terms of quarantine. We hope that the pest has not spread. That is the reason why the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has stopped moving grain from one place to another.

 

Mr Speaker, our concern is at household level, especially where maize is being stored traditionally. If people keep moving one or two bags from one place to another, the Larger Grain Borer can spread rapidly. What we are trying to do is sensitise the public once again that this can be quite dangerous in terms of food security risk. We all have to fumigate the maize. Agro dealers have the chemicals available. We hope that farmers can respond positively.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, I believe one of the good features of the Electronic Voucher System (e-voucher) is that our farmers will not only be able to access agro inputs, but also chemicals such as the ones that are needed to protect grain from the grain borers. The question that the people of Chama South have is the availability of these agro dealers. In Chama, we are told that all agro dealers will be based at Chama Central Business District (CBD) while farmers are as far as 200 km away. This applies not only for chemicals but also fertiliser; Considering that people have even planted their crop, how possible will it be for our people to access these chemicals and farming inputs? Is there a way that the Government can help people access these inputs nearby?

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the concern of the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South. The Government is running a two-tier system. There is a programme in the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare to support, especially the aged and those who are quite vulnerable in outlying areas, with free packs and inputs, as well as the cash transfer. In the Ministry of Agriculture, we are dealing with the farmer who is supposed to be a business person. We are trying to achieve two things through the e-voucher. Firstly, we want to ensure that many people in rural areas, the private sector and the farmers are included financially. This is why they need to have an account to be able to access the e-voucher card and the visa card.

 

Secondly, Mr Speaker, what this will also do is encourage those who have no bank account to have one. This will attract banks to move closer to the people. In addition, it will also create an appetite of the private sector, especially the agro dealers, to want to move closer to the people. I know we are going through teething problems, but I am sure, in a few years, all these issues will be dealt with. What we want is development. Nobody should be too far away from a bank or even an agro dealer, like in this case, 200 km and more. We do know that it is not the first time that these farmers are procuring inputs. They know how to go to the CDB to procure inputs, and to organise themselves in co-operatives so that they reduce transport costs. I am confident that they will continue to do what they have always done so that they can procure the chemicals and inputs.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr S. Tembo (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minster for the answers. Farmers in Chadiza coming from far-flung areas sold their maize to the FRA. This maize was transported to the main sheds. Long after the maize was transported to the main sheds, it was discovered that some of that maize had been destroyed by the Larger Grain Borer. The maize was taken and given back to the farmers. May I find out from the hon. Minister whether the current policy of the FRA is giving back maize to farmers who had sold it to them.

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of that situation. Normally, what the FRA will do, once it has discovered an infestation, it will destroy the maize, and depending on the extent of the infestation, it cannot be fumigated. I am not aware of this case, and as such I am not able to give a concrete response.

 

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, if I heard the answer correctly, the hon. Minister, she said farmers have been advised to destroy the affected maize, and that they should continue to fumigate to prevent the spread of borers. Is the Government going to support the affected farmers and families by way of compensating them with fresh maize so that they do not suffer from hunger?

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, this is a live issue. The Ministry of Agriculture will ascertain the extent of the infestation. Once that is done, working particularly with the Office of the Vice-President in the Disaster Mitigation and Management Unit (DMMU), then we will be able to make a decision if certain households will actually need relief food, going forward. In the Ministry of Agriculture, what we are concerned with is food security. So far, the situation is under control and the FRA is fumigating the stock. We are also encouraging households to fumigate their granaries between harvests so that any stock that has not already been fumigated is not destroyed. For those families who will find that they have lost everything in their traditional granaries, clearly, it will be a situation of the provincial leadership, Ministry of Agriculture and the DMMU beginning a relief programme.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the issue that was raised by the hon. Member for Chadiza, I think, requires an investigation in order to establish the truth. However, Luwingu, where Lupososhi is located, is one of those districts which were said to be affected by the Larger Grain Borer. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how well equipped to deal with the issue the Luwingu Extension Officers are. Additionally, is there a deliberate programme of sensitisation in both local languages and English through the public broadcaster, Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), so that people in Lupososhi and Lubansenshi constituencies are able to know about the existence of this Larger Grain Borer?

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the Larger Grain Borer is not new to Zambia. From the 1990s up to 2005, a great deal of sensitisation was carried out, and people might remember the famous advertisement on Chirindamatura Dust. In 2005, the Government, working alongside the Australian Government, introduced a bio agent so that it could actually destroy the Larger Grain Borer. Clearly, it felt that it had dealt with this problem. However, it seems it has to carry out more publicity and, maybe, re-educate the extension service workers. At the moment, I am confident that what is being done in Luwingu and the other affected districts is sufficient to contain it.

 

However, if it becomes a national disaster, we will respond accordingly. The farmers in the affected districts are being sensitised through the radio, flyers and face-to-face interaction on the available pesticides they can use to destroy the pest. Furthermore, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is in contact with the farmers. Right now, the FRA Executive Director is in Katete with the farmers inspecting the stocks of maize that were bought. Those affected will be quarantined, and if the infestation is beyond our control, they will be destroyed. I urge all hon. Members of Parliament to use the community radio stations and other channels to sensitise the farmers so that they can clean their granaries, and buy the right chemicals to destroy the pest.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, last year, the Government dealt with the issue of the army worms at a very fast rate, and the sensitisation programmes was very good. However, the FRA rejected some bags of maize infested with the Larger Grain Borer in the Eastern Province. Does the Government intend to declare this a national disaster, and will it provide chemicals to the affected farmers so that this problem is resolved?

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I am not aware that the FRA rejected some bags of maize. If, indeed, that is the case, I will investigate it. Normally, maize stock that is infested with weevils is usually destroyed, but I will get more details. I mentioned that the Plant Quarantine and Phytosanitary Service (PQPS) Department is carrying out a nation-wide survey so that we can determine whether or not the presence of the Larger Grain Borer is a disaster. At the moment, it is localised in five districts, and we actually believe that it is already under control. We keep monitoring the situation just as we have continued to monitor the army worms that ravaged Zambia last year, and we will have to see how widespread the infestation will be this year. However, we are comforted that due to last year’s sensitisation, our farmers know about them, and will be well prepared.

 

Mr Speaker, the Larger Grain Borer has been in the country for over twenty years and, therefore, most of the farmers know how to address it. As a ministry, we will continue with the sensitisation programmes, and we are on the ground, working with all stakeholders. However, if the situation worsens, we might declare a national disaster so that the right response is implemented.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

_______

 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

VOTE 11 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – K1,391,746,230), VOTE 15 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – K563,768,030) and VOTE 16 – (Drug Enforcement Commission – K83,933,420).

 

(Consideration resumed)

 

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Chairperson, before adjournment yesterday, I was indicating that the budget for the Ministry of Home Affairs should be …

 

Mr Kalaba: On a point of order, Sir.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Kalaba: Mr Chairperson, in the House of laws, decorum must be upheld. The hon. Member of Parliament for Mitete is sleeping in the House. Is he in order to do so? I seek your serious ruling.

 

Mr Mutelo rose.

 

Laughter

 

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member is very active and he was not sleeping.

 

You may continue, hon. Member for Kanchibiya.

 

Dr Malama: Mr Chairperson, we need to support the budget for the Ministry of Home Affairs so that we invest in the officers who are under various departments. There is a need for recruitment so that various departments which are highly understaffed can be able to provide the expected service that the people of this country desire of them. Also, there is a need to rehabilitate the infrastructure at the ministry that has been neglected over time so that the officers can provide a better service to the Zambian people.

 

We have to be bold and assist to capacitate the ministry so that it can develop systems that outlive individual contributions. We should be expectant of service from a well-developed system that has been proven both at home and abroad. So, we would expect the ministry to provide the relevant information that we require.

 

Sir, secondly, as a ministry which is anchored on security, the Ministry of Home Affairs should avail to us an efficient service. Thirdly, I would like to talk about the creation of economic opportunities for our people. This can be done. For instance, when you look at important departments such as the Home Affairs Research and Information Department (HARID), in the Ministry of Home Affairs, you will notice that it requires sufficient resources. This also gives impetus and support to the Permanent Secretary and his or her support staff.

 

Mr Chairperson, there is a greater need for this ministry to receive the support of hon. Members on both sides of this House so that it can stand and provide the security that is required of a competent and professional service. Further, there is a need to look at the ministry’s office space. The ministry does not have office space of its own. The Government is building an office block, but this building has delayed in opening. I hope that this budget has considered the completion of the office for the Ministry of Home Affairs.

 

Sir, allow me to revisit the National Archives of Zambia. It is important that we, the legislators take an interest in the records being kept at the National Archives of Zambia. Yesterday, I mentioned that the old Bank of Zambia building has been reclaimed by its owners. Therefore, as we sit here today, the National Archives of Zambia does not have space where it can protect our national records. I hope that this budget looks at supporting the National Archives of Zambia to find a place where a building can be erected. That building is where all national records can be kept safely for use by this generation and the ones to come.

 

There is an office called the Registrar of Societies. In all our constituencies, women talk about registering their clubs as well as the youth clubs. Therefore, we need to support the Vote for this ministry so that the Registrar of Societies can be able to reach our constituencies, and register these clubs. That way, the clubs will be operating legally, and will be well funded from within and outside the country.

 

Mr Chairperson, when you look at the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), you will agree with me that that is another important office. This morning, Her Honour the Vice-President was thanking the chiefs and the people of Chienge for hosting refugees. I also want to join her in thanking them. I wish to thank our officers in Chienge and Nchelenge who are attending to refugees who have come to us for a better service. I thank our officers from the Zambia Police Service and the Commissioner for Refugees and others who are helping in providing this important service to our neighbours.

 

Sir, the Commissioner for Refugees Department requires to be well funded, and well staffed. All this requires all of us, the legislators, to look at this important ministry, and ensure that it is funded sufficiently so that its activities can be well implemented.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Police Complaints Commission (PCC) has a greater role to play. In 1995, under the leadership of Mr Francis Ndhlovu, the former Inspector-General of Police, the Zambia Police Service envisioned that it could not police itself. Therefore, it proposed to the Government, the establishment of the Police Public Complaints Authority (PPCA), now PCC. This Commission needs to go round our communities to do its work. For it to be able to do this, it requires a great deal resources. As a Government, when you hear hon. Members on the left complaining about a lack of professionalism in the Zambia Police Service, you must listen, and attend to such complaints. This can be done through the PCC and other avenues that are created. This way, we will have a competent service, not only from the police and other departments, but also from all those serving the Zambian public.

 

Sir, I was happy to note that during this year’s Independence celebrations, the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) got great recognition from the Government and the people of Zambia. We heard of how vigilant the officers are, and how they go a step further in serving this country despite facing many operational challenges. We need to look at the Ministry of Home Affairs and fund it. We need to look at the modernisation of DEC and the recruitment of staff. The commission has less than 500 officers and less than 300 operatives. When you look at the need to have our children talked to on issues of drugs, DEC has less than ten people in their education department. We have identified the need to have Zambian youths educated sufficiently. Apart from the Ministry of General Education, this is a competent department that can interface with the Ministry of General Education and Ministry of Youth and Sport in ensuring that the Zambian youths are protected from vices such as drug abuse.

 

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about the Immigration Department. This department has performed sufficiently well. However, the officers are few and it lacks sufficient resources. When you look at our borders, you will agree with me that our borders are quite large. In Namibia, near Caprivi Strip, there was an agreement–

 

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Sir.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, Dr Malama!

 

I think that we need to make progress. It is for this reason that, going forward, I will not allow points of order just as I am not allowing the point of order that Mr Mukosa wanted to raise.

 

You may continue.

 

Hon. Government Members: But it is compelling.

 

Dr Malama: Sir, when it comes to correctional services, I would like to bring to the attention of the House that when we visited Sesheke, we found that holding cells have no toilets. There is a need to ensure that correctional services are modernised with good infrastructure.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Zambia Police Service is for the people of Zambia. It is not for the PF or any other political party, but a national police service with officers–

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Member, your time is up.

 

Dr Malama: I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to wind up debate on the policy statement which I gave yesterday.

 

Sir, I would like to start by reminding the hon. Members on what I stated yesterday in my policy statement when I talked about the role of the Ministry of Home Affairs. I said that the ministry is charged with the responsibility of maintaining internal security to ensure an environment where peace, stability and justice prevail to provide sustainable socio-economic development for the Republic. 

 

I indicated that to fulfil this mandate, the ministry has a number of departments. I first talked about the Zambia Police Service, which has been heavily debated. I also talked about the Zambia Correctional Service, formerly Prisons, whose mandate, as we know, is to look after offenders. At the moment, we are experiencing a drastic shift from the punitive way of managing offenders to a correctional way.

 

Sir, I also talked about the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), which is equally an important department. I alluded to a number of successes that the commission has scored in order to preserve the economy of this nation. It has intercepted huge sums of counterfeit notes and also handled issues of money laundering.

 

I further talked about the Immigration Department, whose responsibility is to manage the movement of people through our borders, and ensure that our country is not infiltrated by wrong foreign elements.

 

Mr Chairperson, the National Registration, Passports and Citizenship Department is another very important department charged with the responsibility of registering nationals and also issuing national registration cards (NRCs) and travel documents, which hon. Members of Parliament also need to have to do their work.

 

The Registrar of Societies is another important department charged with the responsibility of regulating, registering and deregistering political parties, which we all belong to, and non-governmental organisations (NGOs).

 

 I further talked about the National Archives of Zambia, which is equally important. We heard one hon. Member debate eloquently, the portfolio functions of this department, which has preserved our records since and before Independence. This department deserves to be capacitated.

 

Mr Chairperson, I further said that the human resource and administration are the engine of the ministry. Grant-aided institutions such as the Commissioner for Refugees, whose portfolio function is to look after foreign nationals who have been uprooted from their homes and nations to look for sanctuary in this country, is another important department.  

 

I also talked about the Police and Public Complaints Commission, whose duty is to offer oversight functions on the operations and conduct of the Zambia Police Service. I talked about the National Forensics Authority as well as the National Terrorism Centre, which is just as important.

 

Mr Chairperson, I decided to get back to the various departments just to emphasise the point that the Ministry of Home Affairs or ‘Ministry of Police’, as perceived by many people, is, indeed, a huge ministry with so many portfolio functions. If a Minister assigned to this ministry opts to micro-manage the Zambia Police Service, it will be the beginning of failure. This is because all these departments that I have talked about are very important, and are in all the provinces and districts. So, imagine what would happen if a Minister dealt with the Zambia Police Service alone.  It is the beginning of failure for sure.

 

Mr Chairperson, I want to react to a few debates from hon. Members who debated after I had given the policy statement. However, before I do that, I would like to assure the House and the nation at large that the Government, through my ministry, is committed to upholding human rights, as evidenced by the establishment of institutions such as the Police Public Complaints Authority, which was ably spoken about by the last speaker. A human being, whether professional or not, is prone to error. Therefore, there must be checks and balances.

 

There is no way we are going to allow members of the general public to cast aspersions on very important institutions such as the Zambia Police Service whose role is that of maintaining law and order in this country.

 

Sir, in ensuring that our officers in the departments under the Ministry of Home Affairs perform their functions well, just like any other public institution, welfare for the officers is a priority. We have embarked on a number of programmes or projects in order to address the major challenges, not only in the Zambia Police Service, but also in other wings.

 

Housing, good salaries and many other operational needs such as vehicles are required. When I made my policy statement, I thanked the hon. Minister of Finance for the allocations that we have been given in 2018. I know that there will never be a time that money will be enough. Money has never been enough at any given time. So, we will make sure that we prudently utilise these resources where they are needed the most, and ensure that we have a positive impact on our institutions.

 

Mr Chairperson, a number of hon. Members debated after me. Hon. Mweetwa, Member of Parliament for Choma Central and, indeed, a former police officer, took time to debate.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo: Yes, once a cop always a cop, and we expect many good examples from the hon. Member.

 

He talked about the falling standards in the Zambia Police Service. I would like to state that we do not shy away from acknowledging shortfalls wherever they occur. Indeed, some of the events that have been associated with the Zambia Police Service are undesirable. However, we have not shied away from pointing them out, and we shall continue to do so. As Minister of Home Affairs, I have made it very clear both to the command and men and women in uniform that their profession is a noble one, and requires high standards of performance.  Where officers have been found wanting, they have been subjected to the procedures set out, and we will continue to do this.

 

Furthermore, we are making retraining of all officers at all levels mandatory. This has already started. This is not only meant to build capacity in them and ensure that they appreciate the human rights aspect, but also to ensure that they progress, depending on how they are capacitated in the service.

 

The hon. Member also talked about officers showing signs of partisan politics. Indeed, we have seen this conduct. Surprisingly, the hon. Member only talked about where he might have seen a police officer in a t-shirt with the portrait of the Head of State, who is the Commander-in-Chief, …

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was responding to some of the issues, which were raised by the hon. Member for Choma Central.

 

Sir, I was acknowledging that we are not going to shy away from the shortfalls, but acknowledge them, and make sure that we deal with them appropriately. The hon. Member further talked about the issues of delayed prosecution of cases.

 

Mr Chairperson, you might have heard that the hon. Minister of Justice and I undertook a tour to our correctional services not too long ago to see the challenges that our people are encountering, especially those who are in remand prisons and those who are due to appear before the courts of law. The trip was meant to ensure that we start dealing with the issues which make our people remain incarcerated for a long time before they can appear before the courts of law.

 

Sir, my hon. Colleague talked about a number of things such as the issue which happened in Namwala. However, I want to say we would like to accept criticism, but we will only accept criticism which is meant to build us, and not to demonise because all of us still need the Zambia Police Service.

 

Mr Chairperson, like one hon. Member said, we all come to this House to perform our duties because we know that this is a peaceful country. Therefore, we cannot avoid mentioning that despite the few shortcomings, which could be noted, the overall picture is that our police service have tried to serve their nation diligently and with dedication. Consequently, we also expect our dear brother, the former police officer to lead by example. We do not want to see him in pictures that depict him as a person mingling with the Janjaweed kind of people, wearing military fatigue that is undesirable to the nation. We want him to avoid such things so that he can also live as a shining example, a former service person, and indeed, a legislator. We hope to see that in him.

 

Sir, I will not dwell much on the other issues that he talked about, but just to say that we are going to work with those who want to see the Zambia Police Service offer a better service than they might think it does today.

 

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Dr Chishimba Kambwili raised a number of issues. He also talked about political interference. Again, I would like to say that I am here now, and the Zambia Police Service is out there functioning. Hon. Members may realise that the Zambia Police is in more than 100 districts. Imagine if it had to wait for the hon. Minister to give it instructions on what to do and what not to do. What would happen in the country? I am here right now, but officers are out there and they are operating normally. So, that is just a perception, Hon. Dr Kambwili.

 

Sir, I wish Hon. Dr Kambwili had an opportunity where he was served better when he was in Government. Maybe, those are circumstances that we can talk about, but it should not be that way because all of us must be served equitably whether in authority or not because we are all subject to the same laws and rules.

 

Mr Chairperson, the other matter was addressed by one of the hon. Member. I am sure hon. Members are aware that events that occur here are in the jurisdiction of the Sergeant-At-Arms. We can only come in when Mr Speaker handles over the matter to us. Otherwise, there is little that we can do. Therefore, it is not fair for him to compare whether he did not receive better service than what happened to him in the issue of assault and what could have happened on the matters which happened in the precincts of Parliament. That is all I can say on that matter.

 

Sir, the other issue, which was raised, was about the conditions of services for the men and women in uniform. Indeed, we are concerned about this issue. If there is a government which is more concerned about the men and women in uniform, it is this Administration.

 

Mr Chairperson, let me say that for the first time in the history of this country, this Administration has established a compound for immigration officers. Just imagine how long the Immigration Department has been in operation, yet no one cared to look at how they lived. However, now, we are building – and we have built – houses which they are already occupying. Further, we are still building more houses. We are doing the same for the Zambia Police Service.

 

Sir, I, therefore, want to agree with Hon. Dr Kambwili that some of the houses in our police camps are in a deplorable state. We have acknowledged that, and are doing something about it. Like my other colleagues said, I am trying to see how we can get the project expedited so that our officers can also live in a more conducive environment.

 

Mr Chairperson, I also want to state that it is the first time that we have seen new police stations and posts with a conducive environment for the male, female or juvenile offenders being built throughout the country. Therefore, we deserve to be commended for that.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kampyongo: Sir, I want to agree with some hon. Members that the issue of transport has been a challenge. However, I want to state that from what has been allocated from this year’s budget, we are going to make sure that we procure some vehicles. There are some arrangements that we are trying to make so that our officers can be given adequate transport to enable them to serve their nation properly.

 

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Dr Kambwili also talked about the Public Order Act and the National Democratic Congress (NDC) Party. The hon. Member even debated on that matter. You are a Member of the Patriotic Front (PF) Party, Hon. Dr C. K. The NDC you are referring to is a newly formed party which was registered under the Registrar of Societies in the Ministry of Home Affairs. If we can allow a political party to be registered, it means that we acknowledge and accept its existence. At the moment, we have more than forty-five political parties registered with the Registrar of Societies. The very fact that we have acknowledged their registration, means that the Government is willing to have them on the Zambian political scene. We appreciate the new political dispensation.

 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member also spoke about the NDC notifying police of a gathering in the showgrounds, and then a change of venue. Obviously, the same law that we have, which is the Public Order Act in this case, demands that when there is a change of venue, the police are notified because they have to know where a gathering is going to be. This will continue applying until we change the law in this august House.

 

S, if the hon. Member is still in touch with the new party, he should just assure the party that it needs to follow the law. In so doing, it will have no problems at all because we want everybody to exercise their rights side by side. The Government has no issues with anyone because we are able to defend ourselves, and what we are doing for the people of Zambia. So, there is no fear at all, and we are not going to suppress anyone in that regard.

 

Mr Chairperson, the same applies to hon. Members of Parliament visiting their constituencies. We have discussed this matter before, and I have said that when we say hon. Members of Parliament should just notify police that they are in the area, it does not mean that they must say which meetings they are going to have. This is meant to ensure that nothing happens to them because they are public figures and leaders.

 

So, just notifying the police that they will be in the constituency on a particular day is enough. They do not have to name the type of meetings they are going to have, but if they go further and do so, it is even better so that should there be a need for the services of the Zambia Police, they can be available for the hon. Members. That is the whole idea behind informing the police about the hon. Members’ presence in an area. It does not mean we want to stop them from performing their functions. That is one thing that we should avoid. We agreed with Mr Speaker that I need to come back and issue a statement so that we discuss this matter further and put it to rest.

 

Sir, Mr Kambita also criticised the police. However, I want to advise my dear colleagues that we are going to accept criticism which is meant to build public institutions because we still need them, whether we like it or not. We are here on a tour of duty. I am not the first hon. Minister of Home Affairs, neither am I going to be the last, but these institutions will remain for the nation. So, my role is to just make sure that I probably leave my ministry better than I found it, and that I will do.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kampyongo: When we criticise, let us do it in a manner that is meant to encourage and build institutions like the police because these people are serving the nation twenty-four hours a day and seven days a week. So, let us avoid being emotional when we are discussing these matters. I have started engaging various political leaders, and we are getting somewhere in terms of how we should work together.

 

Mr Chairperson, the same goes for the remarks by Mr Kamboni. I have responded to most of the issues he raised, but I would like to caution him to avoid issues of tribalism. It does not build the nation. As leaders gathered here, we must be the first ones to condemn this ugly thing of tribalism. We are one Zambia one nation, and we should learn to coexist. It is not correct that the police ask suspects their tribe before making an arrest. Let us not encourage that kind of thinking.

 

Ms Tambatamba interjected.

 

Mr Kampyongo: If it is happening in some constituencies, hon. Members should make sure that they report, and engage us so that we deal with such matters. It does not help to come and start talking about it only when hon. Members have an opportunity on the Floor of the House. Then we are not solving a problem. We need to engage and deal with vices in our society together.

 

Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank Hon. Chungu Bwalya so much. He debated about the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). Yes, indeed, we are trying to see how we can modernise the operations of this commission because, as you know, it is dealing with vicious characters, especially the drug cartels. Drug deals are businesses that generate a great deal of money and to deal with such vices is a nightmare. Drug dealers are always using sophisticated means of doing their illicit business. I want to assure the hon. Member that we are doing everything possible to improve the efficiency of DEC. We shall see how we can support the department using what we have been allocated in the 2018 Budget.

 

Sir, Hon. Bwalya also talked about the Public Order Act. I think he did very well to state that we should make submissions in order to  attend to this part of our legislation. If we have concerns about this law, that is the only way we can raise them. The Government is still committed to addressing this matter. The hon. Member also alluded to the issue of not confronting the police. Yes, indeed, that should not be encouraged because beyond the police uniforms, like I keep saying, are human beings. When we are dealing with them, let us ensure that we deal with them with respect because they are equally human beings who deserve to be respected.

 

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Bwalya also talked about political interference in the operations of public institutions, which I have already alluded to. On this score, however, I want to say that there are times when I have disappointed people. Some people have called me from check points after being intercepted by police officers. Just because they know me, they have asked me to interfere, and I have refused. That I do not and will not do because I do not want to interfere in the work of the men and women on the ground.

 

 Those who think that just because they know an hon. Minister, he or she can intervene so that they get away with breaking the law, should know that I will always disappoint them. Why should I get involved when I do not even know what the defects of the motor vehicle, for instance, are? It is the same with issues to do with the Immigration Department. When an immigration officer asks some people for information, they want to run away and call the hon. Minister. It does not work like that. Again, I would like to emphasise that I do not want to micromanage institutions under my ministry. These institutions have their mandates which must be exercised without interference.

 

Sir, I also want to thank Dr Chanda for his remarks. He talked about the duty of every government. Yes, indeed, the duty of every government is to safeguard the interests of its nationals, and make sure that they live in peace. He talked about how homeland security must be prioritised in terms of resources, which I think we are all agreed to. I want to assure him that the Immigration Department will make sure that his constituency is not left to undesirable foreign elements.

 

Mr Chairperson, Mr Chanda Mutale also supported this Vote and talked about how people fear the police, thinking that they are political party cadres. I think we should stop labelling our police men and women as cadres. Some police officers have been in service from the time the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government was in power. Their stay in service has outlived governments. Therefore, I do not see how any professional police officer would want to subject himself/herself to political demands at the expense of his/her professional work. I want to agree with the hon. Member that we should not be alarmists. As leaders, we should learn to only give information that is verifiable and based on facts so that we do not alarm the nation. I also agree with him that the issues of elections will have to wait until 2021 and, therefore, let us not make an issue out of these straightforward matters.

 

Mr Chairperson, the issue of corruption is one which is talked about every day. We have heard many different statements about corruption. I have accepted a great deal of counsel from my colleague, Hon. Dr Chishimba Kambwili, but I would also like to provide counsel to him. As his colleagues, we are not happy that our colleague could be in the situation he is in. However, what is important is to appreciate and understand that all of us seated here feel that we should learn from the experience he has gone through. I do not think it was easy for the appointing authority to decide to let him leave us and get to where he is today.

 

Sir, I am happy that he is making peace with the people that called for indabas to call for his removal as hon. Minister when the appointing authority stuck with him at that critical time. I do not think it was that easy for the President to let go of him in the manner it was done. For all of us in Cabinet, it is something that we should learn from. If the President can get rid of Hon. Dr Kambwili whom he worked with so closely, who is everyone else here? It can happen to anyone here. My view is just to say, please, calm down and reflect. We shall be happy if our colleague is cleared of the issues that have been levelled against him. I think that is what I can say to him at the moment.

 

VOTE 11/02 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Protective Unit Department – K67,386,870).

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Chairperson, this is to show that I do not doze when I come here to work.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Ask your question.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mutelo: Sir, may I have clarification on Programme 4023, Activity 009 – Intelligence Gathering – K36,000. Is this amount enough for this type of work?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the money might not be enough, but that is what is available and we are going make use of what is available.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4023, Activity 036 – Station Imprest – K139,000. Last year, the allocation was K62,783 and this year, it has been increased to K139,000. May I find out why there is an increase.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, this is one of the activities that required to be supported sufficiently. The increment is made to make sure that the work on this activity is done efficiently.

 

Vote 11/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 11/03 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Lilayi Police Training School – K46,371,720).

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4031, Activity 043 – Public Order Maintenance – K130,000. This year, there was an invocation of Article 31 and the allocation was K90,000, but now that this invocation has been done away with the allocation has been increased to K130,000. Why?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member should know that the invocation of Article 31 was not planned. Running the state of affairs, these are activities that are managed even outside the budget. The increment is meant to cater for more planned activities under this programme.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Votes 11/03 and 11/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 11/05 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – K94,064,080).

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, is it Head 11/04 or 11/05? I had indicated on Head 11/04.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: We are on Page 115. Is it pages 114 or 115?

 

Mr Mutelo: That is the right page.

 

The Chairperson: Alright, which page? I have mentioned two.

 

Mr Mutelo: I am talking about page 113.

 

The Chairperson: We have already passed that page.

 

Mr Mutelo: That is where I had indicated. Maybe, you did not see me.

 

The Chairperson: You are late. I had already actually passed that page.

 

Votes 11/05 and 11/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 11/07 – ( Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Paramilitary – K92,179,510).

 

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4013, Activity 049 – Inspection of Platoons – K257,000. Would the hon. Minister explain why platoons inspection has been increased. It was K143,241 in the 2017 Budget, and there is an increase of K113,755 in the 2018 Budget …

 

The Deputy Chairperson: The question is clear. Why the increase?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the increase is simply to ensure that more platoons are inspected.

 

I thank you.

 

Votes 11/07, 11/08 and 11/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 11/10 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Copperbelt Province – K142,750,170).

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K120,000. It is quite strange, this year, there was an allocation of K120,001 and the allocation of 2018 is K120,000, and they have just removed K1. Then on Activity 009 – Utility Bills – K876,600. The allocation for this year was K876,598 and for the allocation for next year, they have just added a K2. What kind of mathematics is this, hon. Minister?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration K120,000 and Activity 009 – Utility Bills – K876,600, those figures are insignificant. They are more of arithmetic issues than an increment.

 

I thank you, Sir

 

Votes 11/10, 11/11 and 11/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 11/13 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Western Province – K 43,551,300).

 

Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 049 – Rehabilitation of Water and Sewer Systems – Nil. Why is there no allocation for 2018?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4012, Activity 049 – Rehabilitation of Water and Sewer Systems – Nil, the programme was executed and that is why there is no allocation.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Votes 11/13 and 11/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 11/15 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Luapula Province – K 25,766,600).

 

Mr Jere: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4023, Activity 036 – Station Imprest – K73,480. In 2017, there was K145,482, but in 2018, there is only K73,480. What has necessitated this drastic reduction?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4023, Activity 036 – Station Imprest – K73,480, part of the money has been allocated to Programme 4031, Activity 043 – Public Order Maintenance, hence the reduction.

 

I thank you, Sir. 

 

Votes 11/15 and 11/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 11/17 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Southern Province – K 61,405,740).

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4031, Activity 016 – Marine Patrols – K61,980. What has caused the reduction in this Activity?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4031, Activity 016 – Marine Patrols – K61,980, part of the money has been allocated to Activity 009 – Procurement of Armoury Consumables, hence the reduction.

 

I thank you, Sir. 

 

Votes 11/17 11/18, 11/19, 15/01, 15/02 and 15/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/04 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – National Archives of Zambia – K 5,893,110).

 

Ms Chonya (Kafue): Mr Chairperson, I will just ask one overall question with regard to passport and citizenship. The figures appear exactly–

 

The Deputy Chairperson: On what page, Madam?

 

Ms Chonya: On page 172 and 173.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: We have already passed that page, I am sorry.

 

Ms Chonya: Ok, because you were not looking, I will refer to page 173 still–

 

The Deputy Chairperson: No, I am looking on my screen and I did not see anyone indicating.

 

Ms Chonya: Page 173 then–

 

The Deputy Chairperson: We have already passed 173. We will attend to you if you want to ask something on page 174 and 175.

 

Ms Chonya: Ok, Mr Chairperson, next time.

 

Vote 15/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 15/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Votes 15/06, 15/08, 15/09, 15/10 and 15/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/12 – Ministry of Home Affairs – Northern Province – Zambia Correctional Services – K684,930).

 

Ms Chonya: Mr Chairperson, I just want to understand this new budget line on Offender Management since it was not there last year.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Madam, help us with the page number.

 

Mrs Chonya: Mr Chairperson, I am talking about Programme 4038, Activity 001 – Offender Management – K80,000. What does it involve?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, this is a new activity which is meant to rehabilitate inmates in accordance with the Zambia Correctional Service Act.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Votes 15/12, 15/13, 15/14, 15/15, 15/16, 15/17, 15/18, 15/19 and 15/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/21 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Western Province – Passport and Citizenship – K179,490).

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 009 – Utility Bills – K5,310. In 2017, there was K19,853. Why do we have that huge reduction?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the reduction is due to the reallocation of resources to Programme 4013, Activity 042, Station Operations.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Jere: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4013, Activity 042 – Station Operations – K64,000. I have noticed that this is a new programme. I want to find out why the stations were not funded last year. Is this a new activity?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, indeed, this is a new activity and it is meant to facilitate the implementation of dual citizenship.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Votes 15/21, 15/22 and 15/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/24 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – North-Western Province – Passport and Citizenship – K224,150).

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programmes 4001 and 4013. The hon. Minister said that the amounts got reduced because the money was taken to another programme. Why did they not take the whole amount to that very programme as opposed to leaving the minimum amounts?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I appreciate the concern of the hon. Member. That activity will be supplemented in administrative arrangements.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Votes 15/24, 15/25 and 15/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/27 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Copperbelt Province – Immigration Department – K1,441,340).

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Chairperson, my I seek clarification of Programme 4010 – financial management and accounting, Activity 015 – revenue collection and inspection –K71,000. The Immigration Department was given a target of K260 million to raise in the 2017 Budget. It failed to meet the target and only raised about K190 million plus. I want to find out whether the money allocated is enough to enable it to meet the K260 million target.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I want to appreciate my colleague who is a former officer in the Immigration Department, and I understand his concerns. Indeed, the amount might not be enough, but administrative arrangements will be made to supplement this particular activity.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Chairperson, the second question is running through all the provinces. If you checked on programmes on international Women’s Day Celebrations, what criteria the hon. Minister used in allocating, for example, you will discover that you have given Copperbelt K4,000. Is this money not just for transport?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, yes, indeed, we would have loved to allocate them more money, but we had to do with what is provided for in the revenue basket.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Vote 15/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/28 - (Ministry of Home Affairs – Central Province – Immigration Department – K870,530).

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Chairperson, this is also a programme that is running through provinces. Programme 4031, Activity 009 – International and Regional Co-operation – K15,000. You will realise that the ministry has budgeted monies across all the provinces. I wanted to know what activities these are. Why the same amount as last year?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, this activity is required to meet travel expenses in attending regional and international meetings. As you know, the Immigration Department makes part of the delegations that attend Joint Permanent Operations Commission meetings. We would have loved to give them a little bit more had the purse permitted. This is a very important activity.

 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Vote 15/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/29 - (Ministry of Home Affairs – Northern Province – Immigration Department – K925,840).

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4031, Activity 009 – International and Regional Co-operation – K19,010. You have merely added a K4 from the last budget. What are you going to address with K4?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, again, this is similar to what I stated earlier on. This figure is neither here nor there. It is more of arithmetic which is done by our people at Ministry of Finance.

 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Vote 15/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/30 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Northern Province – Immigration Department –K930,930).

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Chairperson, I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is not aware that this department is very frustrated because of such allocations which are very minimal, and do not address their plight.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Where are you basing that question? On what programme?

 

Mr Sing’ombe: It is a general question.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: You have to be specific because we have gone into individuals items and are analysing.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: It is on–

 

The Deputy Chairperson: So you really have to find something.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: I will find it, Mr Chairperson.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: We will not wait for you to find it, hon. Member.

 

Are you there already?

 

Mr Sing’ombe: You can carry on, Mr Chairperson.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Thank you.

 

Vote 15/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Votes 15/31, 15/32, 15/33, 15/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/35 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Lusaka Province – National Registration – K1,464,120).

 

Mr Samakayi: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4013, Activity 084 – District Continuous Registration – K172,820. How many people will be targeted during this exercise?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I cannot state the number of people who will be captured.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Vote 15/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/36 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Copperbelt Province – National Registration – K2,332,880).

 

Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4000, Activity 002 – Salaries II – K991,910 and Activity 003 – Salaries III – K1,103,820. Why is there no increment?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member is asking why there is no increment in view of the corrective bargaining that has been concluded. That matter will be handled at the Ministry of Finance.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4013, Activity 084 – District Continuous Registration – K224,400. I think Lusaka Province has a bigger population than the Copperbelt Province. Why has more money been allocated to the Copperbelt Province than Lusaka Province?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, each province’s activities are planned differently. Therefore, it does not matter how one would perceive the size of the province.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Vote 15/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Votes 15/37, 15/38, 15/39, 15/40, 15/41, 15/42, 15/43, 15/44, 15/46, 15/47 and15/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/49 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Muchinga Province – Correctional and Reformatories – K523,230).

 

Mr Kamboni: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4038, Activity 001 – Offender Management – K60,000. What has necessitated the introduction of this activity?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: This question was also asked by Hon. Chonya. However, since we are on a different Vote, I will ask the hon. Minister to give an answer. Otherwise, to save time, you need to weigh your questions.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, yes, indeed, I responded to this question when Hon. Chonya raised it. Previously, we had prisons meant for punitive incarceration. However, we now have correctional services meant for the rehabilitation of offenders using correctional means. Therefore, the new activity is in line with the Correctional Services Act which was passed in this House.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Vote 15/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 15/50 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Muchinga Province - Passport and Citizenship – K154,840).

 

Ms Chonya: Mr Chairperson, I just want to express my concern that you moved too fast. I had wanted to seek clarification on the Vote that you have just passed. I indicted, but you did not see me.

 

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K10,000. Why is there a reduction from K29,500 in 2017 to K10,000 in 2018?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I thank the hon. Member for seeking clarification. Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K10,000. The reduced allocation is due to the resources that have been allocated to Programme 4013, Activity 042 – Station Operations – K60,000.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Votes 15/50,15/5,15/52,15/53,15/54,15/55,15/56,15/57,15/58,15/59,15/60,15/61,15/62,15/63, 15/64,16/65,15/66 and 15/67 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 16/01 – (Drug Enforcement Commission –Headquarters – K78,580,870).

 

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K3,165,390. Why is there a huge increment for this allocation from K1,720,392 last year?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K3,165,390, the huge increment is due to the number of projects that are being undertaken by the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC).

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4023, Activity 034 – Procurement of Uniforms – Nil. I thought these are consumables which would be required annually. Why is there is no allocation for 2018?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4023, Activity 034 – Procurement of Uniforms – Nil. This programme is catered for under Programme 4044 and it has been allocated K123,001.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4000, Activity 001 – Salaries Division I – K28,750,730, Activity 002 – Salaries Division II – K10,841,160. Why is there a reduction in the salaries for Divisions I and II?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, indeed, there is a reduction. If you recall, I indicated in my policy statement that some of the officers have been moved from the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), particularly those who were handling prosecutions, to the National Prosecutions Authority (NPA), hence, the reduction.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 198 – Construction of Office Building – DEC Kabwe – K1,600,000. In 2017, there was an allocation of K1,600,000. The same amount has been allocated for 2018. Was this DEC office building not constructed this year?

 

My Second clarification is on Programme 4052, Activity 006 – Procurement of Office Equipment and Furniture – K502,000. In 2017, K177,000 was allocated for this activity. In 2018, K502,000 has been allocated. Can the hon. Minister of Home Affairs explain the increment?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4012, Activity 198 – Construction of Office Building – DEC Kabwe – K1,600,000 is continuous. The programme will be undertaken next year and the cost still remains the same.

 

Sir, the increase in Programme 4052, Activity 006 – Procurement of Office Equipment and Furniture – K502,000, is meant for the newly introduced offices in other districts. As you know, we are still to decentralising the operations of the DEC. Therefore, this programme will continue as we roll out the services to other districts.

 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Vote 16/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Votes, 16/02, 16/03, 16/04, 16/05, 16/06, 16/07, 16/08, 16/09, 16/10, 16/11 and 16/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 10 – (Zambia Police Service Commission – K8,358,450).

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Chairperson, following the enactment of the Constitution Amendment Act No. 2 of 2016, the Service Commissions Act No. 10 of 2016 and the subsequent signing of the Service Commissions Act 75 of 2016, the Police and Prisons Service Commission was abolished and split into two separate entities, namely: the Police Service Commission and the Correctional Service Commission.

 

The Zambia Police Service Commission is now a constitutional and statutory body mandated to provide human resource functions to the Zambia Police Service and the Immigration Department. Of Significance to mention, is that the Immigration Department was moved from the Civil Service Commission to the Zambia Police Service Commission in the year 2016. 

 

Mr Chairperson, it is of utmost importance that the commission is supported as it implements the human resources reform programme, whose major component is the provision of a principle and value based on decentralised human resources management system for the Police Service and the Immigration Department.

 

Mission Statement

 

Mr Chairperson, the work of the commission is guided by the following Mission Statement:

 

“To promote high quality service to the Zambia Police and Prisons Service by upholding and applying the power vested into it by His Excellency the President without fear or favour to cultivate rapport and partnership with the Zambia Police Service.”

 

Review of Past performance

 

Mr Chairperson, in its continued effort to maintain effective and efficient service delivery, the commission undertook the following programmes in the years 2015, 2016 and part of 2017:

 

Processing of Action Sheets

 

Sir, the Zambia Police Service Commission, formerly Police and Prisons Service Commission, processed a total of 2,758 outstanding cases for the Police Service, the Correctional Service and the Immigration Department. The nature of cases included staff promotions, confirmations, acting appointments, transfers, retirements, discipline, secondments, re-instatements, resignations, compensations and contracts.

 

Sir, the cases were processed in conjunction with the Zambia Police Service, the correctional Service and the Immigration Department. This was done to ensure the smooth transition to a decentralised human resources system in line with the Government policy.

 

Mr Chairperson, the cases that were processed are broken down as follows:

 

Year              Zambia Police                 Zambia Prisons      Immigration Department        Total

 

2015/16                    1419                  364                            183                              1,966

 

1^st & 2^nd

Quarter, 2017          323                    253                            214                              790

 

Monitoring and Evaluation

 

Sir, in a quest to improve the performance of the commission and achieve results, the commission conducted monitoring and evaluation in 2015 and 2016.

 

Challenges

 

Mr Chairperson, the commission had planned to process Action Sheets across the four provinces, namely: Lusaka, Southern, Western and Central. However, the commission only managed to visit three provinces by October, 2017, while Central Province will be visited later in the year.

 

Sir, the lack of a computerised human resources management system both at the commission and the police service continue to pose a challenge in the maintenance, referencing and retrieval of personnel information for decision making. Of significance to mention, is that the Centre of Excellency for E-Government and Information and Communication Technology (ICT) has already been engaged and will greatly assist the commission to computerise all personnel records for easy retrieval and decision making by 31^st December, 2017.

 

PROSPECTS FOR 2018

 

Human Resource Management Reforms

 

Mr Chairperson, in 2018, the commission plans to oversee the establishment of Human Resource Management Committees in the Police Service and the Immigration Department under the Zambia Police Service Commission. This programme is of utmost importance, especially now that the Service Commission Act No.10 of 2016 and the Service Commissions Act (Commencement) Order, 2016, for rolling out the Human Resources Reforms were assented to by His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, and the subsequent official launch of the Human Resource Management Reform Project on 30^th August, 2017.

 

Quality Control and Inspections

 

In a quest to improve Public Service delivery, the commission will intensify its efforts of co-ordinating the implementation of human resource policies in both the Zambia Police Service and the Immigration Department through the establishment of Human Resource Management Committees. These committees are expected to implement and provide guidance in the management of human resources across all police and Immigration Departments. The commission will carry out quality assurance and inspections on how the committees are adhering to the principles and values based system of human resource management in the two departments.

 

In order to ensure accountability, efficiency and effectiveness in the Zambia Police Service and Immigration Department, in 2018 the commission will operationalise and strengthen human resource committees in the two institutions. To this end, I hereby submit the proposed 2018 budget estimates of expenditure for the commission amounting to K8,358,450 only.

 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity. I see that I am the only one who has indicated to speak on this Vote. In supporting it, let me thank Her Honour the Vice-President for delivering her policy statement on the Zambia Police Service Commission. As she rightly put it, yes, we are aware that the Immigration Department has shifted in terms of recruitment. Since the Immigration Department and police as well as the correctional services deal with inland security, it only makes sense that they are in one cluster.

 

Mr Chairperson, in supporting this Vote, I have a few reservations and comments to make. Allow me to say to Her Honour the Vice-President that the employment of officers under these three departments must always carry the face of this country. It must always carry the face of Zambia in terms of region and tribal affiliations. There is a way in which this should be done. The Constitution actually does dictate that recruitment in the Civil Service should be done in those particular lines.

 

However, it is disheartening to learn that, more often than not, when recruitment is done in provincial centres, people come from the capital to the provinces to go and get interviewed through their connections. This disadvantages the people in those regions. Let us take Kasama, for instance. If there is recruitment going on in Kasama, there has been a preponderance or habit of people who are in authority sending their relatives to go into the provinces for their relatives to be employed.

 

Mr Chairperson, it is clear that the Zambia Police Service is supposed to be friendly to the community. For example, it would be better for me to be employed as a police officer here at Parliament, where I am familiar to almost everyone. It becomes easy to engage. Therefore, we suspect that the issue of employing officers in these institutions is not based on qualifications. Qualification comes in all forms, including academic and physical stature. There is a dictate of what a police officer should look like. For instance, there is a requirement of height.

 

I see the hon. Minister of Home Affairs smiling.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: It is with no particular reference to his own height. I am simply saying that a policeman must be of a certain physical stature. This comes back to the Commission, which employs police officers. I cannot believe that these officers who are engaged, I assume, based on the qualifications that are laid down only change their behaviour and character once they are employed. For instance, I do not imagine that a man with the specified height can be employed, go to Lilayi and then trim his height and become shorter.

 

Similarly, there are things that are within human control. I also believe that people who are about to be employed as policemen should be screened. They must pass the test of having no criminal record and be in correct standing in society. They should go through the finger printing system and be cleared of criminal records.

 

Mr Chairperson, the challenges we have been facing with the police are not only from the low ranked employees. The challenges go up to the top, unfortunately. Why is it so? I suspect that there is political interference, which I already alluded too, at recruitment. People are recruited based on kinship, tribe and patronage. The biggest problem we have, and I am sure the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Her Honour the Vice-President will agree with me, is that the most screaming issue in the police service today is alcohol abuse. Balakolwa sana ba kapokola, ba Chairman.

 

Hon. Members: Meaning?

 

Mr Nkombo: Meaning that policemen get too inebriated for them to perform their functions according to the requirements.

 

It is no longer strange to hear that a policeman got drunk and lost his rifle. I am sure such stories are very clear to you, hon. Minister. We read about them in the Zambia Daily Mail. You will not be shocked to see a video of a citizen saying “Boma yagwa! Boma yagwa!” to a uniformed policeman falling all over, and peeing in his pants.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: The assumption is that this officer must have gone through the commission for employment. If that is the case, it means there is a need for us to do some introspection from this point to the commission itself. This situation is an indictment on the commission, and it cannot pass the buck unless it agrees with my assertion that there is some political interference or some invisible hand that helps them to recruit people who are less capable.

 

Mr Chairperson, there is excessive corruption in the Immigration Department. People who do not qualify to come to this country are coming. I am talking about the inflow of human beings into this country. We are also told that there is too much political interference. According to the records I have, there have been more deportations of clergymen and religious people in this country ever since the Ministry of Religious Affairs and National Guidance was formed.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: That should tell you a story. It is no longer strange nowadays to hear, every week, that a deacon has been deported, a pastor has been deported or so and so has been stopped at the airport because of political interference.

 

Sir, we belong to the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region, and we are moving towards a borderless region where we may not even need passports, in the future if we ratify that treaty or convention. We are in a global village. Zambia is the only country that is known to have got immigration officers to close the airport when a leader of an opposition party from another country decided to come and attend a court case.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, Mmusi Maimane was denied entry into the country. This is a potential president of a big economy in this region.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Nkombo: It is easy for those who got instructions to stop him from coming into the country to say “Question!” Most of these people ordered the Immigration Department to stop Sir Mmusi Maimane from coming into this country to attend the court case of a brother and friend.  He was stopped at the airport, and it was condoned. A person like me was not even allowed to go into the VIP Lounge as the airport was closed–

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

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HOUSE RESUMED

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

(Progress reported)

 

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The House adjourned at 1258 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 14^th November, 2017.

 

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