Tuesday, 27^th February, 2018

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

______

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

ALLEGED COLLAPSE OF THE CENTRAL COMPUTING SYSTEM AT THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE

 

The Minister of Finance (Mrs Mwanakatwe): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for according my ministry this opportunity to issue a statement on the alleged collapse of the Central Computing System (CCS) at the Ministry of Finance as reported in some sections of the media.  I appreciate the honour to have this opportunity to inform this august House and through it the nation, on the status of the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) and the steps that the Government is undertaking to ensure that it is speedily restored.

 

Mr Speaker, IFMIS failed on Monday, the 29^th of January, 2018, at about 2200 hours. Since then, the system has not been available for business use. The House may wish to note that the failure was not deliberate, but a degeneration of the equipment hardware that resulted in data on the affected damaged portions being corrupted, thereby causing the system to fail. This is attributed to the old age of the equipment which has outlived its life span.

 

Sir, at the time of failure, the Government had already taken steps to replace the old equipment. The new equipment has already been installed and the process to migrate the system from the old equipment to the new hardware has already commenced.

 

Mr Speaker, the restoration has taken a bit of time because of the extent of damage on the equipment. On the failure occurred, immediate efforts to restore the system using backup data failed because it was discovered that the data for recent backup also contained some corrupted data as the damage to the equipment had taken place over a period of time, but only took its toll on 29^th January, 2018.

 

Sir, further, efforts to restore the system using the disaster recovery (DR) site also failed because the data stored on the DR site was replicated with the same corrupted data from the main system.

 

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that the system reconstruction and data recovery process is being done by a combined team of the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) project consultants, a joint venture comprising Novabase Business Solutions of Portugal and Seidor of Spain, who have been contracted to plan, design and implement IFMIS enhancement and interface this project. SAP Germany, who are the software application providers were also included. The team has been working around the clock to restore the system and that substantial progress has been made to restore the system with 95 per cent of the work having been completed. Tests to verify the proper functioning of the recovered components of the system are ongoing and have so far been positive.

 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to assure this august House that most of the work to restore the system has been done. The system will be put back into operation in the shortest possible time within the month of March. In the meantime, business processes have continued using manual operations although, at a slower service delivery.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Quality!

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister of Finance.

 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I had applied for a question of urgent nature on this topic, which would have come tomorrow, but I am grateful that the hon. Minister has decided to pre-empt it through a statement today. I hope in this light, I could also have a second bite at the cherry because …

 

Dr Malama: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Nkombo: But Sir, you do not allow points of order in a ministerial statement. That is your own convention. I am a Whip and I need to remind you.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, when the hon. Member, the Whip of the Opposition was on the Floor, I saw on his photo, colours which are very partisan. Is Parliament in order to allow that?

 

I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: I did not get your point of order. Could you repeat yourself?

 

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, when the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central stood to speak, on his photo which was displayed, I saw colours of a political party. Is Parliament in order to allow a scenario of this nature to obtain in this august House?

 

Mr Speaker: I reserve my ruling. The Hon. Member for Mazabuka may continue.

 

Mr Nkombo: Thank you, Sir ….

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was thanking the minister for the statement. I would like to know whether the breakdown of this system is a real reason why civil servants’ salaries have been delayed this month.

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, that is not the reason salaries were not paid. In fact, we disbursed them yesterday.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister clear the speculation going round that there was deliberate sabotage in crashing the financial management system so that the Government can hide figures that it is presenting to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) in order to get support from it?

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Laughter

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, I can categorically state to this august House and to the nation that there was no sabotage. The Government does not fudge figures that it shares with the IMF because it can get them. Therefore, it is pointless trying to fudge figures. We know what the statement of account was as at 31^st December, 2017, and those are the figures that I shared with the nation just the other day. Therefore, there was no intention at all of malpractice by the Government.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, if the main system and the disaster recovery site were affected, how does the hon. Minister know that the quality of information that they are going to get is original and correct?

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, yes, the disaster recovery site was affected as I stated in my ministerial statement and this is why we are now painstakingly trying to recover the data. I can confirm that what we are recovering is in line with what we expect to recover.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, since the data recovery system was also affected, could the hon. Minister assure the people of this beautiful country that the integrity of the financial management system of our country will not be compromised?

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, I did say that we have already recovered 95 per cent of the data and by the end of March, we shall be up and running. We have bought new equipment, which is being overseen by a team of consultants from Spain, Germany and ourselves. Also, the system that we purchased in 2017, is meant to support hardware and software under the Public Financial Management Programme that the donors are supporting the Government with. Therefore, I can confidently say that we shall recover and be up and running with business as usual by the end of March.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Mr Speaker, following the collapse of the system and the fact that it is not operational until it is restored, what specific measures has the ministry taken to ensure that the financials for this year are produced on time in order for the Auditor-General to give a timely report to His Excellency the President and Parliament?

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, we are doing several things, one of which is ensuring that we have constant backing up of data. Secondly, we are ensuring that our software and hardware is reviewed on a more regular basis than before. Thirdly, we are ensuring that every part of the Government, that means, every single department or ministry, is actually on the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) so that we can get consistence in data. I believe that by the end of March, we will have quite a fair idea of what the results will look like. We hope that by the end of March when we are 100 per cent inputted into the new recovered system, we shall have the figures that state the position as we believe.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, of course, it is rather unusual for a system to break down and also the recovery sites which store data safely to collapse at the same time, in other words, the whole system from A to B to Z collapsing. In view of that, how can the hon. Minister be so sure that they would be able to recover the data that had been corrupted over a period of time of a system that failed from the beginning to the back up? Where is the assuarance.

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, I did say that the server failed and that is exactly the same information that was on the backups. Therefore, integrity can be confirmed and also that the failure happened at a time when we were moving from one system to another. As I said, 95 per cent of the data was already produced at the time of the failure in 2017. Therefore, it is only the 5 per cent that, perhaps, one can say will be compromised, but I do not think that will be so. Let me also say that backups are done on different sites to prevent losses and we are pretty certain that the backup is being done.

 

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Mr Speaker, what is the cost of the new equipment that the ministry is installing?

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, if I got the question correctly, the hon. Member of Parliament for Manyinga is asking how much the equipment cost. I do not know that figure. I am happy to come back with the exact figure of the cost of the equipment.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Mr A. C. Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, my concern is that the purpose of the IFMIS was to create credibility to our budget, meaning that we are spending money on things that we planned for. Since the system crashed, I have noticed that the Government has gone back to the manual system of paying and raising purchase orders. Not too long ago, the Accountant General said that he is not going to accept any purchase order that is raised manually, but from the system. That was to add value to the credibility to our Budget. Could the hon. Minister of Finance assure the nation as to how credible our budget implementation will be going by the challenges that she has outlined?

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kantanshi for that concern. I agree with him that right now we have gone back to the manual system. I said that by the end of March, we shall be back in proper space where the money is set aside. We are quite confident that we are going to recover and go back to a more robust system in March onwards.

 

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: The last question will be from the hon. Member of Parliament for Mitete, but before he comes in, I would like to caution the Back Benchers on my right that I am noticing what is happening. This is not the right place to have those kinds of transactions.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Oh! It is Kalaba!

 

Mr Nkombo: Kalaba has come!

 

Mr Speaker: If you have differences to sort out, you can walk out.

 

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes!

 

Mutelo (Mitete): Thank you, Mr Speaker. Hon. Kalaba, you are welcome into the House.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: In response to one of the questions, the hon. Minister of Finance said that she is ‘trying’ and that word never gave me comfort. Even when she was answering a question from the Member of Parliament for Roan, she said, ‘It is not sabotage by today’, but what if tomorrow she discovers that it is actually sabotage? Could she explain, please?

 

Laughter

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: I do not know, Mr Speaker, whether the hon. Member of Parliament for Mitete wants me to become an investigator and a doomsayer. I do not want to anticipate sabotage, all I wish to do is to ensure that we have a system that is robust and sabotage would not occur.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

 

_________

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

TUITION FEES CHARGED BY SCHOOLS IN KALABO DISTRICT

 

176. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of General Education:

 

1. whether the Government was aware that schools in Kalabo District were charging tuition fees to Grade 9 external examination candidates for them to attend classes;

 

1. whether the Government had any plans to reduce the K75 charged per subject for candidates in rural areas;

 

1. whether the Government was aware that some candidates travel long distances to write examinations due to the limited number of examination centres in the District; and

 

1. if so, whether there were any plans to designate more schools as examination centres.

 

The Minister of General Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government is aware that schools in Kalabo District, just like any other schools countrywide, are charging tuition fees to Grade 9 external examination candidates for them to attend classes. However, the ministry will consult on the matter with key stakeholders in the education sector in order to determine the appropriateness of the fee that is being charged.

 

The following are the approved fees that are being charged at the moment:

 

1. Centre Fee       -           K50.00; and

 

1. Tuition Fee       -           K50.00 per subject, per term.

 

For now, the Government has no immediate plans to reduce the K75 charge per subject for candidates in rural schools as this is the standard amount paid both in urban and rural schools.

 

Sir, the Government is aware that some candidates travel long distances to write examinations due to limited number of examination centres in Kalabo District. However, the District has examination centres in most of its schools. In some cases where schools do not have examination centres, the head teachers of such schools are asked to apply for centre status.

 

Mr Speaker, as stated in part (c) of the response in which the Government admits that there are no enough examination centres in Kalabo, it remains for me to assure the hon. Member of Parliament and this august House that the district authorities will work out plans to designate more schools as examination centres.

 

So far, in Kalabo District, the examination centres increased in 2016, from thirty-one to thirty-five in 2017. This is a demonstration that plans to designate more schools as examination centres are in place and ongoing. The focus is to ensure that schools meet the required standards set by the Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ).

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mrs M. Phiri (Nominated): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is aware that inspite the ministry issuing a circular to all schools that no child should be sent away on the basis of not paying school fees, there are some school managers who are sending children away disregarding the ministry’s directive. What are the penalties to such school managers?

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, on the issue of school fees, I totally agree with Hon. Mumbi Phiri because this is one of the issues that I will be consulting with my colleagues in the provinces when Parliament goes in recess, so that we can clarify the matter and provide some communication on this particular subject matter. In short, Mr Speaker, we are aware that children are being sent away for non-payment of school fees, but it is a matter that requires consultation so that we provide clarity to the schools and every stakeholder.

 

Mr Speaker: What penalties are there for disregarding the instructions in the circular?

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, generally, the penalties are that, if a school has been given instructions and act otherwise, the head teacher of that particular school is supposed to go through a disciplinary process. However, for now, Mr Speaker, I do not want to speculate. It would be important that we engage into some conversation and agree on a position that I am also going to issue in this particular august House in terms of clarity and the wa forward.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, why can the hon. Minister not just be bold enough and abolish these fees? This is because the parents of these children come from very poor families especially those in Liuwa such that finding K75 charged per subject is a problem. Further, to go to secondary or high school they have to pay K1,000 and they are burdened. Why can he not just be bold enough and abolish it henceforth?

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, in as much as I appreciate that question from Hon. Dr Musokotwane, to make a decision and abolish the fees just like that would be a very emotional decision to make. This is why I have said that in my commitment in going forward, we are going to go through a consultative process, where Members of Parliament and maybe the Committee on Education would be involved, so that we can look at some of the structural weaknesses within the education sector to do with the school and examination fees and see what would be the agreed position at that particular time. It would be at the time, Sir, that I would be able to communicate to my Honourable Colleagues as to what the position would be after the consultations have been made.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I find the answers which the hon. Minister has given not matching with the questions. Therefore, I would request that the hon. Minister should look at the questions because his answers do not match with my questions.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Miyutu: I find it very difficult and I am failing to understand him. For instance, he is talking about twenty-one examination centres designated in Kalabo District. Maybe it is another district he is referring to and not Kalabo.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central, if you are not satisfied with the response in whatever respect, ask another question so that you are clear.

 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, for example, part (b) of the question says, “if so, if there were any plans to designate more schools as examination centres”. I am sure the hon. Minister is aware that Kalabo District has only three examination centres for Grade 9 external candidates and not that number which he stated. That is why I am saying that his answers do not match with the questions. He should have known that we are looking at Grade 9 external examination centres. Therefore, his answer should have been for Grade 9 external candidates in Kalabo District and not whatever he is thinking about.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Miyutu: For this reason, he has taken me aback because he has not answered my questions.

 

Mr Speaker: Since he has not answered your question, I am giving you the freedom to ask him a question so that he answers your questions.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: That is what the rules provide for. Ask a question, so that he answers your question.

 

Hon. Member: Yes!

 

Mr Miyutu: Sir, I would like to know whether the hon. Minister is able to give the names of the twenty-one examination centres, which he has mentioned in Kalabo District, where the Grade 9 external candidates are scheduled to sit for their June examinations.

 

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, to give comfort to my colleague, in terms of the structure of his question from part (a) to (d), if part (d) was specific as to how many external examination centres for Grade 9 are there in Kalabo, we would have provided a response as such. Now, looking at the way the question was structured, it is a little bit mixed up, but that is not to run away from the responsibility of giving him the answer.

 

Sir, the answer that we have provided is the number of examination centres that are in Kalabo for internal and external candidates. However, if my colleague wanted a specific answer on the number of external Grade 9 examination, I would be more than happy to share that information with him. Like I have said, the comfort I can give to the hon. Member in part (c) is that the district has examination centres in most of its schools. In some cases where schools do not have examinations centres, the headteachers of such schools are asked to apply for centres status. Therefore, there is always ongoing conversations and dialogue between the ministry, the schools and the Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ). Therefore, Hon. Miyutu, if the centres are not sufficient in Kalabo, we will look at it.

 

Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member can again look at the answer, which I provided in part (d) of the question, I said that the focus is to ensure that the schools meet the required standards set by the ECZ. Again, we are not going to give a school the examination centre status just for the sake of giving them an examination centre number when they do meet the criteria. This is my response to his question. If he wants information for the Grade 9 external examination centres, I can provide that part answer at a later stage.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: What is your specific response to the Supplementary Question whether or not you are able name the examinations centres now?

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, at the moment, I do not have the information on the names of the schools, but I can provide that information to my colleagues.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Dr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, in responding to the initial question from the hon. Member for Kalabo, the hon. Minister indicated that he is not aware that there are payments that are being requested from pupils to sit for external examinations. This is not only happening in Kalabo, but everywhere. May I know from him whether it is a standard practice that every child who wishes to rewrite the Grade 12 Examination should pay tuition fees? I am sure that the Minister is aware that if there are any bottlenecks to pupils going to schools nowadays, it is the exorbitant schools fees. If the he is aware, is he going to use the opportunity on the Floor to direct headteachers that they should not charge tuition fees for those children who intend to re-sit the Grade 12 Examinations.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, Hon. Dr Kambwili’s question is similar to what Hon. Dr Musokotwane asked. In my reply, I indicated that just like any other schools countrywide, the Government is aware that schools in Kalabo District are charging tuition fees to Grade 9 external candidates for them to at attend classes. However, I want to clarify that the ministry will consult on the matter with all the key stakeholders in the education sector to determine the appropriateness of this particular matter. My assurance to my hon. Colleagues is that we want to subject this to some consultation, instead of me just giving a directive like my colleagues would want. It is important the directive should be based on rationality after consultations have been made.

 

Sir, just yesterday, I met the ECZ officers before I even knew that there was a question to discuss the rationale of the tuition fee, the benefits and the effects it has on the pupils, who want to register as external candidates. I will come back to this august House at the right time to provide some clarity on this particular matter, which I know most hon. Members are affected as far as their people are concerned.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kintu (Solwezi East): Mr Speaker, I would like to know the criteria used to designate a school as an examination centre.

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the criteria could be many. For instance, at secondary level, a particular school must have a laboratory, a strong room, where to keep the examination papers, the office where the examination papers are kept must have burglar bars. These are some of the criteria the ministry will look at. Largely, the infrastructure also determines, because if the school does not have good infrastructure where they can store the papers or laboratories, then, the examinations number cannot be given.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, I am crying.

 

Hon. Members: Crying? Aah!

 

Mr Mutelo: Sir, the hon. Minister has said that all the constituencies are affected. Mitete is also affected because we do not have any external examination centre for Grade 9. It is now the Patriotic Front (PF) Government’s policy that the internal candidates who do not make it to Grade 10 will have to go back to Grade 6.

 

Hon. Members: Aah!

 

Mr Mutelo: This means that many girl children will be getting pregnant and getting married early. Why has the PF Government introduced such a policy against the re-entry policy and the early child marriage policy? On one hand, they are talking about the re-entry point, while on the other hand, they are saying even children in Kaputa will go back to Grade 6. Why are they doing that?

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, Hon. Mutelo has asked a very good question, but I am not going to go into the details of the answer because this is one particular element, where I need to come and issue a ministerial statement because I believe this issue has really been misunderstood. For the sake of the Zambia people and the children in our school system, there is no policy that allows a particular person whether from Grade 9 to go and repeat into Grade 6. 

 

Sir, I would like to assure the people of Mitete that if pupils are sitting as external candidates for Grade 9, they are going to be given an examination number. This means is that they can attempt as many times as they could and the ECZ is going to merge their external results and those particular subjects which they passed when they first sat as internal candidates. In fact, Hon. Mutelo should be very happy that we are giving an opportunity to the girl child in Mitete, who did not have an opportunity to pass at Grade 9 because since 2017, the ECZ introduced the examination where the Grade 9 pupils will be able to sit as external candidates. Therefore, if the girl child in Mitete did not have that opportunity, then, the Government is giving the particular opportunity. I, therefore, want to allay the fears that many of the people have because this particular policy has been misconstrued as there is no one who is going to go to Grade 6, hon. Colleagues.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mabumba: Therefore, if any hon. Member has been told that story, I would like to clarify this issue in my capacity as hon. Minister and that at a particular point, I will come and render a ministerial statement in details that there is no child who will be required to repeat in Grade 6. That is fake news.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker:

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!     

 

Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, at a particular time …

 

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, is the word ‘fake’ parliamentary language. The hon. Minister has just used that word in answering my question. I seek your serious ruling.

 

Mr Speaker: I will reserve my ruling.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwamba: Mr Speaker, at a particular time, the Ministry of General Education banned tuition fees in Government schools. However, the hon. Member of Parliament who has asked this question is complaining about tuition fees being paid by external candidates for them to sit for examinations. I am aware that examination fees definitely have to be paid by every candidate, but is there a policy which allows tuition fees to be paid at particular institutions for lessons to be conducted for external candidates?

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I was trying not to go into details on this particular question. Although I will come back to my honourable colleagues on this issue, let me just say that at the moment there is no particular policy that compels external candidates to pay tuition fees.

 

However, some schools where external candidates enroll for examinations are the ones that have created programmes for lessons for these candidates. One of the reasons is that these schools do not want to register students for examinations who will end up failing because they were not subjected to some form of learning. Therefore, some schools have been demanding that particular candidates who want to register for examinations in those schools should pay tuition fees. 

 

Mr Speaker, this is a matter that even the Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ) has raised some concerns on. This is why I said we want to go through some consultations. After those consultations take place, I will be able to provide some clarity on this particular matter. However, I want to reiterate that at the moment there is no particular policy that compels schools to offer tuitions to external examination candidates, although some children are being requested to pay for some tuition. Therefore, I will come back to the House with some clarity on the matter after consulting.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, does the ministry have a regulatory policy when it comes to the fees that schools are charging? For example, maybe the parents in my constituency, which is in a rural area, pay a lesser amount compared to those in Lusaka. So do we have measures in place to ensure that we segregate areas based on the local economic conditions of our people?

 

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister seems to be repeating himself, especially on the question of a policy. His plea is that moving forward, he wants to consult. After the consultation, he will firm up a statement on the subject. I hope the succeeding questions will not exact repetitions from the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I think you have attempted to state my position. What I can just say is that we do not have a segregating policy which allows children in urban areas to pay different fees especially at secondary school level. What I know is that before I previously left the Ministry of General Education, we capped the fees in the secondary sub-sector. In the primary sub-sector, the Parent Teacher Associations (PTAs) have the mandate to sit with the school administration to determine how much should be paid.

 

However, I know this has been a problematic area within the education system and this is why I have requested that I come back to my colleagues with a firm position once we do the consultations on the school fees, examination fees and so on and so forth. At that time, things will be clearer in terms of the way forward.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, as the ministry employs the policy of dropouts being allowed to write examinations in June, they will have to wait up to January or possibly February the following year for the results to come out.  This means they will stay without any school activities for six to seven months. Did the ministry consider the risks that are involved for the children, especially for the girl child, to wait for that long to get their results?

 

  Mr Speaker: I suppose that was the turn of the question by the hon. Member for Mitete.

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I need to clarify my honourable colleague’s statement about seven months passing before results come out. Examinations are conducted in July and August and the results are announced in December. For example, if we look at the examinations which were conducted in 2017, the Grade 7s and 10s opened at the same time, which was around January, 2018. Therefore, we do not keep children waiting for seven months for the results.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, I would want to get a summary answer from the hon. Minister taking the following into consideration. Firstly, in the rural areas, like Kalabo where I come from, the majority of the people do not have any financial earnings. This means they are economically impaired. Secondly, the hon. Minister should bear in mind that although the Government came up with the school re-entry programme for girls who get pregnant, these girls will have to stop going to school because of high schools fees and lack of examination centres. Lastly, the Government fails to send enough teachers to cover all the school stations in rural areas to ensure effective service delivery worthy and quality education based on the pass rate. Therefore, what does the hon. Minister expect will be the result in future examinations and the number of failures in rural areas?

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, Hon. Miyutu is aware that …, and I do not want to sound very political, since the Patriotic Front (PF) took over power, we have made significant strides in terms of expanding the education system in this country, especially in infrastructure. A very goodexample is that other than the 115 secondary schools that we have under full contract mode, there are 220 primary schools that were upgraded in 2014, as a way of providing access to education for the girl child. This is also a way of providing an opportunity to the girl child to go back to school after becoming pregnant.

 

Mr Speaker, Hon. Miyutu is also aware that we recruit teachers every year. I made a commitment to my Hon. Colleagues that the school re-entry policy for girls who fall pregnant is going to be reviewed. We are going to look at some of its shortcomings and strengths. We also want to ensure that the children in rural areas benefit from the recruitment and deployment of teachers, which is done annually. In short, much has been done to expand the education system, but structural challenges still remain in the Ministry of General Education. The President has given me the opportunity to go back to this ministry, where I had served for five years. A number of changes meant to benefit the children in the rural areas will be made. With your support, hon. Members, we are not going to fail them.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Muchima(Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I would like to get clarity on this same issue. I sympathise with the hon. Minister because he does not know what is happening in rural parts of the country. The Government used to allow pupils to repeat Grade 7, 9 or 12. However, today, pupils are not allowed to repeat these grades. Pupils do not wish to write examinations as external candidates. However, the new policy by the Government does not allow them to repeat these grades, but write examinations as external candidates. Some schools charge a minimum of K500 for tuition to external candidates, which is very costly for the candidates. During his consultation with the stakeholders, I would like the hon. Minister to make it very clear to the nation as to whether pupils are still allowed to repeat Grade 7, 9 or 12.

 

Mr Speaker: You seem to be suggesting to the hon. Minister what he should do during that consultation. You have not put a question to him. Put your question, if you have one.

 

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, is there any policy in place that prevents pupils from repeating Grade 7, 9 or 12?

 

Mr Speaker: I think the hon. Minister has belaboured that point.

 

The hon. Member for Mkushi South may ask his question and I announced that it is the last question on this matter.

 

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, external pupils in almost all districts have to walk long distances to go and write examinations. Why has the Government not allowed every school to conduct examinations for external candidates?

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, let me give an example of Luano where my colleague comes from. You can have twenty schools that are Grade 9 examination centres for external candidates in a particular district. However, you will find that only three candidates have registered to write the external examination at one school. Allowing every school to be an examination centre for external candidates can be a huge logistical problem for the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ).Therefore, it is not possible to allow every school to be an examination centre for external candidates.

 

 My Hon. Colleague should appreciate that we started the programme of examinations for Grade 9 external candidates in 2017. We are going to reform and refine the programme as we go. This programme has been introduced for the benefit of our children. We shall find a suitable way to manage these examinations for external candidates, and correct mistakes, going forward. We will also ensure that our children do not have to walk long distances to go and write their Grade 9 examinations.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

CONSTITUTION (AMENDMENT) BILL

 

177. Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central) asked the Minister of Justice:

 

1. when the Constitution (Amendment) Bill to address the lacunas in the Constitution would be presented to the National Assembly; and

 

1. what had caused the delay in presenting Bill.

 

The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2018, will be ready for tabling in Parliament during the June/July 2018 sitting.

 

Sir, the Government has not delayed presenting the Bill to the National Assembly. However, owing to a number of factors, such as the complexity of the business of refining the Constitution, sufficient time is required to facilitate the necessary drafting, expert review, publication and finally, tabling of the Constitution.

 

Sir, as you may be aware, I have stated on record that the Constitution (Amendment) Bill would only be ready for tabling in Parliament in June, 2018. This is in order to comply with Article 79 of the Constitution, which requires an amendment to the Constitution to be published for thirty days before introduction in Parliament. Like I said earlier, sufficient time is being taken to allow the Government subject the Draft Bill to expert review before it is tabled in Parliament.

 

Let me seize this opportunity to inform the House and the nation at large that the Ministry of Justice is in the process of finalising the Draft Bill. They are also examining the submissions that were made by various stakeholders in order to take them into account to the extent possible in addressing inconsistencies identified in the Constitution. This process is currently taking place, and the team is expected to conclude the process on 2^nd March, 2018.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, on 5^th January, 2016, at 1533 hours, President Lungu assented to the Constitution which we now want to amend because it has lacunas. The responsibility of making laws is squarely upon politicians. I appreciate the comments by the hon. Minister that the experts at the Ministry of Justice have to go through the submissions from the stakeholders before the Draft Bill is tabled in Parliament. Since we require a two-thirds majority to amend this Constitution, there is need for consensus building. Good politicians know that the Government and Parliament exercise their powers to do the will and aspiration of the people. Four months is not a long time.

 

In case the Government fails to table the Bill in Parliament in four months, is it possible to create a window for the presentation of a Private Members’ Bill to address arears that are common between the Government and the Opposition such as the independence of the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ)? Would the Government entertain the Private Members’ Bill provided the thirty days notice is given before bringing amendments to this august House and as long as we are all in agreement? I say so because the act of making laws lies squarely with us, and my fear is that your people could have done your work, but if we do not agree here with the required two-thirds majority, it will be another exercise in futility.

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the Government has always been aware of the fact that the business of enacting laws is not a preserve of any particular grouping in Parliament, but that it is a concern of all parliamentarians. You may recall that in recognising the importance of the Constitution, this Government, way back in March, 2017, used the Floor of this House to request all and sundry to make submissions to the Ministry of Justice. Realising the role that politicians play in the governance of the country, you may recall that the hon. Minister of Justice, on several occasions, appealed to political parties to take interest in the matter to make submissions to the Ministry of Justice.

 

Sir, at an opportune time, and my colleagues permitting, I may come and read out the names of institutions and political parties that took heed to the clarion call by the Government. That will be one, not necessarily, to embarrass anybody, but to put the record straight. There are some political parties that seized the opportunity and they have made submissions. There are others, that again, used their democratic right to remain silent. We did not force anybody.

 

Sir, going forward, it is a well known fact that the Amendment Bill will be published for thirty days. That is provided, ...

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, just a minute. Hon. Members in that role (while pointing at hon. Government Members) beginning where the hon. Minister for the Central Province is seated, you are disturbing your colleague who wants to express himself to the House and to the nation on a very seminal subject. You may continue hon. Minister.

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, before the interruption, I was saying that in accordance with the Constitution, the Amendment Bill will be published for thirty days. That is to permit citizens to look at the proposals that are coming from the Executive in the amendment of their Constitution. That will obviously mean that the Amendment Bill will also be available to all of us gathered in this House. Therefore, as regards the issue of whether or not we will miss the opportunity in four months, I want to assure Hon. Nkombo and the nation at large, that everything being equal, I am confident that, in May, we will publish the Amendment Bill as per requirement. That way, as we come to Parliament in June/July, we would have achieved the one month time that is required.

 

Sir, whether it is possible for us to sit as political players, I want to say that unfortunately, for the submissions of that nature, the train left the train station. However, for hon. Members of Parliament, we in Government see value in us parliamentarians sitting together, away from Parliament and interrogating all the proposed amendments, so that we can reach a consensus and ensure that it is all systems go when we come to Parliament. This is something that the Government is working towards because the spirit by which we are governing is one which was pronounced by His Excellency and that is of not leaving anyone behind. We all know the history behind this Constitution. There are some people who may have been left behind. This time around, we would not want to leave anyone behind.

 

Mr Speaker, the final part of Hon. Nkombo’s question is whether hon. Members of Parliament are at liberty to move amendments after giving thirty days notice, and the answer is precise. That is provided for in the statutes. Any Member of Parliament is at liberty to do so. If Hon. Nkombo has some particular articles that he would like to propose amendments to, he is at liberty to do that. I am sure that for him to do that, he will have to lobby all of us in the House so that he garners the two-thirds majority. It is also my hope that I will be able to lobby, together with my colleagues in Cabinet, everyone in Parliament, so that we can achieve the two-thirds majority that is required for us to amend the Constitution, so that it is clearer and the articles are consistent.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, for any legislative review process to succeed, first, there must be utmost transparency and, of course, exhaustive consultations. Even for us to address this issue this afternoon, it is because the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central Parliamentary Constituency has had to bring the question forward. Therefore, one would like to believe that this is a process that is being undertaken under the veil of secrecy, which should not be the case.

 

Sir, I would like to know the expert group that the hon. Minister has alluded to in his statement, which group is undertaking this review process before the Government finally publishes this Constitution. I would also like to know whether this is the same group that has been meeting in Siavonga over the weekend.

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, if there is a process that has been open to public scrutiny, it is the refinement of the Constitution. You will recall that before we started receiving submissions, I addressed Parliament. I did indicate that various people had complained about lacunas and inconsistencies in the Constitution. It was on the Floor of this august House that I made the call for submissions. I did indicate that those submissions could be made to the Ministry of Justice. The Ministry of Justice has state advocates who have been charged with the responsibility of compiling all the submissions and now, they are analysing those submissions.

 

Sir, like I indicated, after the state advocates have finished analysing those submissions, they will present a report to Cabinet. After Cabinet has approved that report, it will be published in the press. I wonder where the secrecy was. Unless my hon. colleague is suggesting that the state advocates should have been sitting at Heroes Stadium. They are sitting in their offices to compile and analyse the submissions. That is not a process that can be done by everybody. It has never happened anywhere, where everybody sits to receive submission, compile and then analyse them.

 

Mr Speaker, I indicated that the state advocates are currently meeting in Siavonga. That is not a secret. They started sitting on Saturday and we invited various wings to Government to sit with them. The Judiciary, the Legislature and various wings of the Executive are represented to analyse the submissions, so that they can come up with a report. That report will be subjected to a review by eternal drafting experts. We would like external people to give us their view on the proposals. I assure the hon. Member for Lukulu that there has not been any secrecy on the matter. I have made several statements on this matter and I am sure the hon. Member knows that this has been a very transparent process.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, we are all aware that we are using a defective Constitution which has ambiguities and lacunas. Why is it that we cannot suspend the Constitution so that these ambiguities and lacunas are addressed because there will be causalities in the process. For instance, the hon. Minister and I are casualties of a decision as a result of the ambiguities concerning hon. Ministers remaining in office. What is going to be done about people who will be casualties in the process?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the Constitution was passed by this august House.

 

Mrs M. Phiri interjected.

 

Mr Lubinda: Quite a number of us in this august House today happen to have been in the House then. I have said before that it is not a matter that should be used to put a wedge between the political divide. We have gone through that and know why we are here. We ought to accept that all of us as a nation accepted a Constitution which we later on realised had inconsistencies and lacunas. We must accept that. Having passed that Constitution as Parliament, which received presidential assent, there is no reason to suspend it when it is possible for us to refine it. I indicated that in the June/July sitting we will present an amendment Bill to refine that Constitution.

 

Sir, there may be people who would be considered causalities as a result of the Constitution, while there may be others who are benefitting from the inconsistencies in this Constitution. All those people will have to be borne in mind when we come to refine the Constitution. However, I do not think there is enough merit to warrant suspension of the 2016 Constitution. There is more merit in us refining it while we are still using it.

 

Mr Speaker, as a matter of fact, some of these inconsistencies and lacunas were identified because the Constitution has been put to a test. Had it not been put to a test we would not have identified these inconsistencies and lacunas. It has been time well spent. The experiment has taught us lessons. We must learn from the results of testing the Constitution.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I am one of those that sat here deliberating on what culminated into the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 1 and 2 of 2016. At the time, there were a lot of fears among them that the Executive was going to bulldoze the process and ultimately that the document was going to serve a very narrow purpose. Barely two years into the process the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is saying that we must go through this process again.

 

Sir, what is different now? What will be done differently to ensure that the lacunas which were very clear even at that time will not be allowed to pass through this process? What has changed?

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, again, I will resist the temptation of splitting hairs. I am obviously being enticed to go into the history, but I do not want to go that route because everybody knows what happened.

 

Sir, what has changed is that we have tested that Constitution. Like I said, we will not apportion blame. All of us gathered in the House must accept responsibility ...

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

 

Mr Kampyongo: They were crying here!

 

Ms Kapata: Bauze mwana!

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let us give the hon. Minister an opportunity to express himself.

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I will resist the temptation yet again.

 

Sir, those who claim to have identified lacunas and inconsistencies at the time when the Bill was brought to Parliament could have raised them, but they did not. I too was here and did not raise the inconsistencies that today I claim to have seen at that stage. This is why I am appealing to all hon. Members to be honourable enough to accept that we are all equally responsible for what we have today and it is our equal responsibility to deliver to the Zambian people.

 

Mr Speaker, what has changed is that we have tested that Constitution and we now know where the challenges are. What has changed is that this hon. Minister on behalf of Cabinet asked all and sundry to make submissions where they identified lacunas. Further, I have stated that before the Bill is presented to Parliament, it is the intention of the Executive to sit with all parliamentarians and go through the Constitution so that we are in agreement before the Bill is brought to Parliament.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, arising from the comments made by the hon. Minister of Justice that we must all accept responsibility for the inconsistencies, vagueness, ambiguities and lacunas in the Constitution, what is the hon. Minister’s comment on those who believe that these inconsistencies should have been identified by the drafting officers at the ministry who are trained in drafting such documents? There are those who feel that there was an element of incompetence on the part of the officers in the ministry. Does the hon. Minister agree with them? If so, what measures are being taken to ensure that the drafting experts at the ministry do their job so that by the time this documents comes here for analysis the inconsistencies, vagueness, ambiguities and lacunas would have been taken care of.

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the House may recall that in 2015, Hon. Garry Nkombo moved a Motion on the Floor of the House to urging the Executive to speedily release the Draft Constitution. I debated that Motion by appealing to Hon. Garry Nkombo to rephrase the Motion. My proposal was that the Motion should have read, ‘to compel the Minister of Justice to release the Draft Constitution’. The reason was because the Executive through the Head State had already indicated that they were ready to release the Bill, but it was stuck somewhere. Hon. Garry Nkombo together with all of us knew that the Draft Constitution was stuck in the Ministry of Justice.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to say that had the Bill been subjected to a review by expert draftspersons, I think that some of the challenges we are facing now could have been addressed then. Unfortunately, I have cited one example, I could cite many more. There was a demand that the Draft Constitution be delivered to Parliament as it was adopted at the National Convention word for word. There was a demand throughout the country and Parliament was also subject of that debate. They were people who came to Parliament, I was avoiding to go into this, who said, ‘do not tinker with that Constitution, it is a people driven document, we want it delivered as it was written’. We did exactly that, except for four amendments.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the record is clear. Those who want to read can read the Hansard. There were just a few structural amendments that were moved by the Executive. Even where words were ambiguous, the Government did not move them because it wanted to live up to the expectations of the people who said, do not touch anything, release the Constitution before the next elections and we did that. Surely, today people can come and say we saw those lacunas and inconsistencies. If it is the people outside of this august House, who saw them, I would forgive them but if it is members of my political party who saw those lacunas and they did not raise them, my advice to them is, here is another opportunity, redeem yourself now…

 

Mrs Mumbi Phiri: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubinda: …by coming to Parliament to indicate that here is a lacuna and an inconsistency. Let us not delve into the past. I have said before that I would not like this process to be used to divide us. I would like this process to be used to galvanise us, so that we can move forward together. This is why I said to Hon. Nkombo when he asked the question that any hon. Member of Parliament is at liberty to propose amendments. If somebody came now and said we cannot wait for the June sitting, we want to amend this and that, we are amenable to that because that it their democratic right.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwene (Mangango): Mr Speaker, the Constitution (Amendment) Bill is long overdue. The hon. Minister has just mentioned the processes that are being done in preparing the Constitution (Amendment) Bill. Now, what guarantee can the hon. Minister give to this august House that come June/July, the Constitution (Amendment) Bill will be presented to this august House.

 

Mr Lubinda: Sir, to the extent that I can give a guarantee, I do give a guarantee. I did indicate that everything being equal, in May, we will publish the Bill so that a month later, in June, it will be in Parliament.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the current ambiguous fourteen days within which the Presidential Election Petition must be heard and determined is one of the lacunas that this amendment process is likely to cure.

 

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I indicated that we received numerous submissions. If I dare to answer that question, I may be attracting others to also ask me specific questions on specific Articles in the Constitution. All I can say is that wherever there ambiguities and inconsistencies, the team is trying to harmonise them. I cannot say that the team, on their own, will exhaust this process. We as parliamentarians have a duty also. Therefore, when the Bill is published, it will be our duty to ensure that we go through the Bill to make sure that there are no more lacunas, ambiguities or inconsistencies.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister, for I am aware that certain provisions of the Constitution cannot be amended without invoking the powers of the people through a Referendum. Are Article 79 and Part Three of the Constitution going be among the provisions to be amended once the Bill is presented to this august House in June? I ask this because we saw how some people shot down the Referendum. Now they are crying …

 

Mrs Mumbi Phiri: Let them cry.

 

Mr Ngulube: …that the Government does not want to amend the Constitution. Hon. Minister, what will happen? Is the Government going to hold another Referendum between now and June for Article 79 and Part Three or we take it that only those provisions that do not require the Referendum will be amended.

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I am sure that learned counsel Tutwa Ngulube …

 

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubinda: … knows better than some us in Parliament that Article 79 and Part Three of the Constitution cannot be amended in the same manner that all other parts of the Constitution could be amended. There is no possibility for us to convene a Referendum between now and June. It is practically impossible. I think I have stated several times that, yes, it is unfortunate for those who campaigned in favour of the enhancement of the Bill of Rights that the Referendum collapsed but off course, the misfortune of one is the fortune for another. Therefore, those who campaigned against the Referendum must be basking in glory and for me, this is water under the bridge.

 

Sir, the President has stated several times that we have not lost the intention of amending the Bill of Rights save for the fact that we will require to mobilise resources to hold a Referendum to amend the Bill of Rights. For the time being, I am afraid, we will come up with a Bill that excludes Part Three and that does not touch Article 79 which is the part of the Constitution that will be presented for consideration by the House.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Minister that we are congruent with the fact that there are lacunas in the Constitution. There is another challenge in implementing the Constitution that is of economic nature. There are some many commissions in the Constitution which the Government has failed to put in place. In trying to put up a team to look at the Constitution, has the Government considered other experts coming from other fields to interrogate the Constitution so that as Zambians correcta the lacunas, we should also examine the feasibility of implementing the Constitution that we will come up with. For it looks like there is a wrong understanding that the issue of the Constitution is an exercise for lawyers by leaving out other experts that are supposed to help on whether the Constitution is implementable on the financial side or not.

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, we should not confuse the principles and the drafting exercise of the Constitution. The principles to govern the Constitution are derived from the people. When I asked members of the public to submit to the Ministry of Justice on the lacunas in the Constitution, some made submissions such as the one the hon. Member for Mwinilunga raised. They asked questions about commissions and the cost of running a Government that was proposed in the Constitution. Those submissions are the ones that legal experts are looking at now. What the legal experts are doing is to draft an Amendment Bill which will be subjected to public scrutiny again. The experts will obviously make further comments, directly, indirectly or through their representatives gathered in this august House.

 

Sir, we are not leaving anyone behind. What is not possible at this stage is for us to take the stakeholders such as teachers, engineers, agronomists, economics, financial experts, taxi drivers, pilots and marketeers to converge again, as the drafters are looking at the submissions that were received from the various stakeholders. It is not possible because all those various players were already given an opportunity to make submissions. The politicians were also given an opportunity to make submissions. Now, the work is for legal experts to draft. Nevertheless, that is not the end. Like I said, the product of that drafting will be subjected to further scrutiny.

 

Mr Speaker, finally, this august House, which is a complex House with a diversity of skills such as engineers, lawyers and agronomists will go through it and will pass it.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, since I am the Whip from my party, who is charged with the responsibility to assist you, I thought that Hon. Lubinda, as he called me, should be reminded that there is nothing like Hon. Nkombo or Hon. Lubinda in this august House according our Members’ Handbook. We should uphold that practice that members are referred to by their constituencies that they represent because the honour is actually for those people whom we represent. Therefore, I would like to urge the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata and Minister of Justice never call me, Hon. Nkombo.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, once beaten, twice shy. A Constitution that is subtle is supposed to outlast generations. From the past experiences, it is clear that the minister is anchoring his base for bringing this document on the submissions from those engineers and lawyers who are the stakeholders and drafters. Going by the last experience, where we stayed up to 1000 hours in the morning, to amend what is calling only four clauses of Mung’omba Draft Constitution, I would like to ask the hon. Minister to take caution and consider the actual engagement. If he does not, the whole exercise, once it is tabled here, will be another exercise in futility. Conveniently, he may come and say that we were all responsible, like he is saying now, for failing another attempt to give the people a Constitution that truly is people-driven.

 

Mr Speaker: Well, you are making a plea to the minister. There is really no question.

 

Hon. Members, I have decided to move Question No. 190 due to some exigency that I need to respond to.

 

LEGISLATION ON BANK LENDING RATES

 

190. Mr Ng’ambi (Chifubu) asked the Minister of Finance whether the Government had any plans to enact legislation compelling banks to lend at 20 per cent of their loans to enact legislation compelling banks to projects containing the following terms:

 

1. minimum of one year grace period on capital repayments;

 

1. minimum of five years repayment plans; and

 

1. options for extension of loan periods.

 

Mr Ng’ambi: Mr Speaker, I wish to humbly request that the question be withdrawn for rephrasing.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Very well. The question falls off.

 

TWAPIA LOCAL COURT IN NDOLA CENTRAL CONSTITUENCY

 

178. Mr Mulenga (Ndola Central) asked the Minister of Justice:

 

1. when the newly constructed Twapia Local Court in Ndola Central Parliamentary Constituency would be opened to the public; and

 

1. what the cause of the delay in opening the local court was.

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the newly constructed Twapia Local Court in Ndola Central Parliamentary Constituency will be opened to the public once the contractor called Kaopaki Investment hands over the project after completion. The cause of the delay in opening the local court is that the contractor has left the site due to non-payment and the structure is obviously not yet completed. The structure is not painted and there is no furniture.

 

Sir, however, the Judiciary has paid out all the submitted interim certificates (IPCS) and has instructed the contractor through the public infrastructure department to go back to site and finalise the remaining work.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, what measures is this ministry putting in place to make sure that the contractor completes the job in good time?

 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the Public Infrastructure Department in the Judiciary had contracted a contractor at the time when they were being paid for the interim certificates. What had delayed the work was lack of payment for those completed works. Now that they have paid, there will be nothing that will stop them from completing the work. The hon. Member for Ndola Central, who is obviously very concerned about the developments in his constituency, can be rest assured that the work will be completed.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, considering that the Government was unable to pay the contractor to complete the works in time, how much is the contractual sum that the Government is owing to this contractor?

 

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I indicated in my answer that the Judiciary has paid out all the submitted interim certificates. Had there been any cost as a result of the delayed payment, I would have mentioned that. There is no extra cost as a result of the delayed payment. I want to assure the hon. Member that the Judiciary has paid the dues and has money to pay for the completion of the court.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister has indicated to this august House that the Judiciary has paid all the dues, could he be kind enough to indicate to the people of Twapia Ward when they will be in a position to open the court? Will it be this year or next year?

 

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I indicated that the structure is not complete and that what is remaining isto paint it. Surely, honourable colleague, if the contractor does not manage to paint it in the next month or two, then he must be blacklisted. Therefore, let me assure the people of Twapia that the court will be opened pretty soon this year and I hope that the hon. Member can invite me so that we can open it together.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

CHIEF’S PALACES IN CHINSALI PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

 

179. Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

 

1. whether the Government had any plans to construct Chiefs’ Palaces in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency;

 

1.  if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

 

1. if there were no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mr Sichalwe): Mr Speaker, the construction of palaces in the country is being implemented in phases. In the current and first phase, the Government is constructing three palaces per province.

 

Sir, the construction of palaces in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency will be considered in the subsequent phases under the province where it falls.

 

Mr Speaker, part (c) of the question thus falls off because of the above explanation.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the construction of chief’s palaces is being implemented in phases and that in the first phase, the Government is constructing three palaces in each province. Therefore, which three palaces are being constructed in Muchinga Province?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, in Muchinga Province, the Government is constructing palaces for Chief Kambombo in Chama, Chief Katyetye in Mafinga and Chief Kopa in Mpika.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwene (Mangango): Mr Speaker, when is Phase I coming to an end bearing in mind that many chiefs are still waiting for Phase II because the hon. Minister indicated that that is when their palaces will be constructed?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, all things being equal, the ministry should be completing Phase I within the course of this year. It is just awaiting funding from the Ministry of Finance and has since submitted the Bill of Quantities (BOQ) for all the various palaces at which they are standing to enable it complete them. Having constituted a task force to monitor the completion of projects that are beyond 80 per cent done, it should make head way before the end of the year.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, the question of when chief’s palaces will be constructed seems to be a very popular question in each and every constituency because of the number of chiefs who are available. How long has it taken the Government to construct chief’s palaces in the Northern Province up to their current status so that we can estimate whether or not the project is really feasible and will be able to benefit each and every chief who is entitled to it?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Member may be aware, last week, you instructed that I update the House and the nation at large on the position of all the palaces. However, in responding to the hon. Member’s question, this project began in 2015. I have mentioned before that the Government had teething problems implementing it because of the manner in which it had commenced it. It commenced using the labour based contract which has not helped in completing the construction of the palaces and has since moved away from it to a full contract based condition.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, when responding to part (b) of the question, the hon. Minister said that the construction of palaces in Chinsali will be considered in subsequent phases. How many phases are there so that the chiefs are prepared?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to know that there are 288 chiefs and the Government will construct palaces for all of them in phases. In Phase I, it will construct thirty palaces. After Phase I, and funds available, a decision will be made of whether to continue with the construction of thirty palaces in Phase II or not.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, are you indicating that you are not in a position to state the total number of phases that will cover the construction of the 288 palaces? I think that is the essence of the question.

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, it is all dependent on the funds that the ministry will be availed with. In the last phase, it was only able to construct thirty palaces because of the merger resources that it had. Therefore, going forward, depending on the availability of funds, it may increase the number of palaces it constructs in each phase in order to reduce on the number of phases that will cater for all the palaces.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, considering the number of chiefs in Muchinga, which I guess are so many, what criteria did the ministry use to come up with those three?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, indeed, I am aware that in each province there are a good number of chiefs, but the Provincial Administration does assist us to assess the needs or the position in which the chiefs are living and they prioritise the chiefs as which ones we should handle first.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr C. Zulu (Luangeni): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Minister we are very happy in Luangeni Constituency that Paramount Chief Mpenzeni’s palace is completed. However, we would like to find out whether he is going to provide furniture.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, I feel that question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Luangeni is indeed on a lighter note. However, it reminds me at the time when we were growing up. When our parents were going to visit the village, they would carry a lot of gifts for the chiefs. For this reason, I would suggest to the hon. Member to assist us in furnishing the government institutional palace for the Paramount Chief. In short, Government has no provision for furniture.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, in his response to the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabompo, the hon. Minister said that they had teething problems, hence they have moved to a full based contract system. Could he kindly inform us the turnaround time of constructing one palace?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, initially, our colleagues in procurement department are the ones handling the procurement process and coming up with the contracts. Therefore, it is only this year that you see will most of these contractors coming on site after the procurement department has concluded the procurement process.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Ms Lubezhi: Aah!

 

AUCTIONING OF GEMSTONES

 

180. Mr Chali (Nchanga) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 

1. what role the ministry played in the auctioning of gemstones by companies such as Kagem Mining Plc;

 

1. whether auctioning was the best method of selling gemstones; and

 

1. if auctioning was not the best method, what the alternative methods were.

 

The Minister of Mines and Minerals (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, the role of the ministry in the auctioning of gemstones by companies like Kagem Mining Plc is to classify and value the gemstones to be auctioned. The valuation guides the setting of the reserve price. Section 47 of the Mines and Minerals Development Act of 2015, provides that no mineral should be exported without a permit issued by the director of mines. The permit is issued after the mineral is valued by the Geological Survey Department. Sir, the ministry also attends the auction to monitor and ensure that there is transparency and that Government gets the correct mineral royalties from the auction sales.

 

Sir, auctioning of the gemstones has proved to be the best mode as it allows Government through the ministry to monitor the grade, quality and the value of the gemstones that are sold during a particular auction. This enables Government to be aware of how much Mineral Royalty Tax is due to the Treasury.

 

Mr Speaker, auctioning has proved to be the best method. Therefore, Government has not come up with any other alternative mode.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Chali: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the auctioning of gemstones which is conducted is block auction and not as per grade?

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, I have stated that the auction is conducted after the Geological Survey Department does assessments of the gemstones to be auctioned, and we provide a reserve price on individual products which we take to the auction. This is the basis. The reason is for us not to get a low price in auctioning gemstones. Therefore, we provide the benchmark of the price for the gemstones that are being auctioned.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Mr Speaker, Lufwanyama Parliamentary Constituency has a good number of gemstone mines, which includes Kagem Mining Plc. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if he is in a position to disclose how much money the Government collects from the auctioning of gemstones per year?

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, it will be difficult for me to tabulate the total amount of money that is generated from the auctioning of emeralds, but we are ready as a ministry to provide that information. We have it and it is sitting on our database.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development saying that Government is going to get its share of mineral royalties. Is the Government considering sharing the mineral royalties that it gets with the communities in which these mines operate, in this case Lufwanyama? This is because there are strong legitimate expectations by the locals in that area that they share these mineral royalties with them.

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, yes indeed, Government has a policy that firstly, in areas where these mineral resources are being exploited, we must ensure that these resources are shared with the communities in terms of infrastructure development such roads, health and education.

 

In addition to Government’s undertaking, we expect mining houses that are doing business in these areas also to contribute to corporate social responsibility in terms of upgrading the livelihood of the people.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, if I may be allowed to follow up on Hon. Kasonso’s question. We are not talking of the general sharing of the cake which is generic and goes to every part of Zambia, but we are talking about the proceeds of the auction. Supposing the hon. Minister makes K100 million, how much does he directly give to Lufwanyama District Council for its programmes? The question is not about the generic development contributions that the Government has to make.

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, I know that hon. Member is referring to the mineral sharing mechanism that has been offered to these communities. However, I wish to inform the hon. Member that Government has not yet finalised this principle, but we are of the view that the communities indeed, like he has rightly stated, need to benefit in a direct way through this mode.

 

As he may be aware, Government is an entity that operates to run and govern the entire Republic and so, these resources in a way are already being shared across the country. Therefore, we will get these details and get in touch with the hon. Member.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

TITLE DEEDS FOR PRIMARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS IN CHIMWEMWE CONSTITUENCY

 

181. Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe) asked the Minister of General Education:

 

1. how many primary and secondary schools in Chimwemwe Parliamentary  had title deeds as of 30^th October, 2017; and

 

1. what measures had been taken to prevent encroachment of schools premises

 

The Minister of General Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that currently, there are no schools in Chimwemwe Parliamentary Constituency that have title deeds.

 

Sir, the ministry has written to all provincial education officers and district educational board secretaries instructing them to engage land surveyors to survey all education properties. Owing to the huge numbers of land and property owned by the ministry, this exercise is likely to take a long time to complete. It is the ministry’s hope that once all properties are on title, there shall be less encroachment.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

BRIDGES IN LUMEZI CONSTITUENCY

 

182. Ms P. Jere (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

 

1. whether the Government had any plans to construct bridges at the following crossing points in Lumezi Parliamentary Constituency:

 

1. across Lukusuzi River to connect Mwasemphangwe to Chauluma School and the Farm Block area;

 

1. across Katete River and Lukusuzi River to connect Mwasemphangwe to Mulandabanthu; and

 

1. across Lukusuzi River to connect Mwasemphangwe to Thebulo; and

 

1.  if so, when the plans would be implemented.

 

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Chitotela): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to construct drainage structures at the following crossing points in Lumezi Parliamentary Constituency:

 

1. across Lukusuzi River to connect Mwasemphangwe to Chauluma School and the Farm Block area;

 

1. across Katete River and Lukusuzi River to connect Mwasemphangwe to Mulandabanthu; and

 

1. across Lukusuzi River to connect Mwasemphangwe to Thebulo.

 

Sir, the drainage structures will be constructed in the second quarter of 2018, using a force account subject to funds being made available.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

TRANSFER OF CIVIL SERVANTS TO LOCAL AUTHORITIES

 

183. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo) asked the Vice-President:

 

1. whether the Government had commenced the exercise of transferring civil servants performing the devolved functions, under Article 147 of the Constitution, from various ministries to the local authorities;

 

1. if so, when the exercise would be completed; and

 

1. if the exercise had not started, why.

 

The Minister in the Office of the Vice-President (Ms Chalikosa): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the exercise has commenced with staff performing devolved functions and currently administratively reporting to the local authorities. The final transfer is pending formal appointment into the council organisational structures by the Local Government Commission. It should be noted that the individual service commissions are almost through with the compilation of staff registers of all personnel implementing devolved functions.

 

Sir, this exercise is in progress and is scheduled to be concluded in 2018.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the short answer.

 

Sir, I would like to find out from her which particular Ministries have the devolved functions reporting to the council secretaries right now.

 

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Speaker, the various ministries that have been devolved all the functions are all the functions under the National Aids Council of Zambia (NACZ) are composed of the ministries of Community Development and Social Welfare, General Education, Health, and Youth, Sport and Child Development. 

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Jere (Livingstone) Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President whether they are aware that some officers are reporting directly to the District Commissioners (DC) as opposed to the local authority. I would like to her comment.

 

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Speaker, we are not aware that some officers are reporting directly to the District Commissioners (DCs). As far as we know, they are supposed to report to the Executive Mayors of the local authorities.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President has been kind enough to give us three or four ministries, but there could be many more ministries at the district level. Could I know when the other remaining ministries are going to be devolved?

 

Ms Chalikosa: Sir, in fact, I forgot to mention that even the functions of the local tourism, where tourism assets have also been devolved.

 

Sir, this is an ongoing process. So far, we have devolved the functions of the National Aids Council of Zambia (NACZ) to about eighty-six local authorities. The functions of local tourism has devolved to about sixty districts. Therefore, this is an ongoing process. Some of these districts are   Livingstone, Kafue, Mambwe, Petauke, Chama, Siavonga, Sinazongwe, Kalomo, Nchelenge, Mongu and Kabompo, where functions have been devolved.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

MBESUMA BRIDGE

 

184. Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

 

1. when the construction of Mbesuma Bridge would be completed;

 

1. the contractor for the project was;

 

1. what the contract sum was ; and

 

1. how much money had been paid to the contractor so far.

 

The Minister of Housing and infrastructure structure (Mr Chitotela): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the construction of Mbesuma Bridge is scheduled to be completed in November, 2018. The contractor for the Bridge is Messrs China Railway Seventh Group Company Ltd. The contract sum is K84,185,816.99. Approximately, K6,313,936.27 has so far been paid to the contractor.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

CHINSALI/MULILANSOLO ROAD

 

185. Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

 

1. when the construction of the Chinsali/Mulilansolo Road would be completed;

 

1. who the contractor for the project was;

 

1. how much work, in percentage term, had been undertaken so far;

 

1. how much money had been paid to the contractor so far; and

 

1. when the last payment was made.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Chinsali to Mulilansolo road has been divided into two lots for ease of implementation. Lot one is from the junction of M1/D66 to Lupene and lot two is from Lupene to Mulilansolo. The initial completion date for lot one was October, 2017, but this will be extended to 14^th April, 2019, owing to the funding challenges the project has faced. The intended completion date for lot two is 23^rd May, 2018, which will also be extended.

 

Madam Speaker, the contractor for lot one of the project is Messrs Raubex Construction Zambia Limited, while the contractor for lot two is Messrs Sinohydro Zambia Limited. The physical progress for lot one is at 23 per cent while lot two is at 41 per cent. So far, the contractors for lot one and two have been paid K50,216,204.93 and K125,939,770.56, respectively. The last payments to the contractors for both lot one and two were done on 31^st December, 2017 and 30^th January, 2018, respectively.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

PLAY PARKS AND RECREATION CENTRES IN NDOLA CENTRAL CONSTITUENCY

 

186. Mr Mulenga (Ndola Central) asked the Minister of Local Government:

 

1. why the Ndola City Council had sold all play parks and recreation centres in Ndola Central Parliamentary Constituency;

 

1. whether there were any plans to create new play parks and recreation centres in the constituency; and

 

1. if so, when the plans would be implemented.

 

The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale): Madam Speaker, the Ndola City Council has not sold all the recreation centres and play parks in Ndola Central Parliamentary Constituency. For the record, out of the nine play parks in the constituency, only two, namely Amusement and Kansenshi, were sold as the council strived to raise funds to pay retirees and liquidate the indebtedness to the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) as a short term measure. The council still maintains ownership of the following play parks in the constituency:

 

1. Chavuma;
2. Lualaba;
3. Mukuni;
4. Yembe;
5. Lupili;
6. Kwacha Recreation Centre; and
7. Petauke.

 

Madam Speaker, the council has plans to create new play parks and recreation centres in all the constituencies of the city of Ndola, including Ndola Central Constituency. In addition, the council is planning to carry out a land audit to identify land that could be redeemed and turned into play parks. The council has a continuous plan to create play parks and recreate centres in Ndola Central where space allows in newly created areas.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate answer. However, I would like to ask him to include Lusaka in this very important question because I think that every major town normally has a central park. For instance, New York City has the Central Park, London has Hyde Park and Kitwe has Freedom Park. Which park do we have here in Lusaka that would be considered the main park for people to rest and get fresh air in the capital city? Although the main question is about Ndola, I would be grateful if the hon. Minister can give us a bonus answer since we are in Lusaka.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: To avoid moving from Ndola to Lusaka, then Chipata, Solwezi and so on and so forth, the hon. Minister will give his response as a general Government policy regarding the matter.

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, the policy is to ensure that Government maintains all the play parks that exist to provide recreation facilities to our people in this country. As we know, children have a right to play and, therefore, it is our responsibility as Government to ensure that they enjoy that right. We are going to ensure that we maintain play parks throughout the country and new residential areas that are emerging in this country must be imbedded in the integrated development plans so that we have such areas like play parks and other recreation facilities.

 

Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, my bonus answer relating to Lusaka …

 

Madam Deputy Speaker: No. Hon. Minister, I am avoiding the situation where other hon. Members start asking questions about other towns. That is why I said that you should give the general Government policy.

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, the policy is that we must maintain the play parks. All local authorities have been mandated to do that. Further, new residential areas should have play parks as well.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that only two play parks have been sold in Ndola Central Constituency. However, I think it is more than two. I want to know what criterion was used to select the two play parks which were sold. The two play parks which were sold were in residential areas, but the ones which have not been sold are outside residential areas.

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, we have nine play parks in Ndola Central Constituency. Out of these nine, only two have been sold. Ndola City Council was permitted to sell these two play parks by the Ministry of Local Government and the reason is that the council was faced with huge pressure to clear payments for retirees and debt with Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF). As you know, once retirees obtain judgment in their favour from court, they can enforce judgment twelve months after that judgement has been passed. This pressure to pay retirees forced Ndola City Council to seek permission in 2016, to sell two play parks to liquidate some of that debt. This is what led to that unfortunate action.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

EQUIPMENT FOR KASAMA GENERAL HOSPITAL

 

187. Mr Sampa (Kasama Central) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. when Kasama General Hospital would be provided with the following equipment:

 

1. ultra sound machine;

 

1. x-ray machine; and

 

1. dialysis machine;  and

 

1. when the cold room at the Hospital would become operational.

 

The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Madam Speaker, the Government has already procured, delivered and installed a modern ultra sound machine at Kasama General Hospital. Further, Kasama General Hospital has a functional x-ray machine. The Government has already procured a contract for the dialysis machines. Dialysis machines will be placed at Kasama General Hospital within the next two months.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, has planned to procure a cold room for Kasama GeneralHospital by end of the second quarter of 2018.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

ALLOWANCES FOR STAFF AT KASAMA GENERAL HOSPITAL

 

188. Mr Sampa asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. when the outstanding allowances owed to the staff at Kasama GeneralHospital in form of the following would be paid:

 

1. repatriation;

 

1. leave travel benefits;

 

1. settling-in; and

 

1. subsistence; and

 

1. when the medical consultants who were deployed to the Hospital in October, 2016, and are drawing salaries, would report for duty.

 

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, the Government has started dismantling the personnel emoluments debt. Every month, an amount of money is released to the Ministry of Health headquarters and this is spread out to all the provincial health offices for onward payment of health workers at various levels. Government has commenced the liquidation of the debt on repatriation, leave travel benefits. settling-in and subsistence allowances at Kasama General Hospital. The House may wish to note that the figures involved are colossal, therefore, to dismantle this debt will take a little longer

 

Madam Speaker, the medical consultants who were deployed to the hospital have already reported for duty.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I would like to know the exact amount of money being sent to Kasama General Hospital for dismantling these allowances.

 

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, the figures fluctuate depending on the grant that we receive from the Government. On average, we receive about K10 million for dismantling debt for personnel emoluments.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

GUMBA DAM ON LUNDAZI RIVER

 

189. Mr Zimba (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection:

 

1. when the construction of Gumba Dam on Lundazi River in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency would commence;

 

1. what had caused the delay in commencing the project; and

 

1. what the estimated timeframe for the completion of the project was.

 

The Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection (Dr Wanchinga): Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Department of Water Resources Development under the ministry has been undertaking a programme for rehabilitation and construction of small dams across the country to harness water and ensure availability of water resources for socio-economic utilisation. This programme has been on-going and will continue in 2018. Apart from this, the proposed site for Gumba Dam was established to be a suitable site for dam construction. Further, the site for Gumba Dam is one of the sites which has been earmarked for detailed feasibility studies. Once the feasibility studies are completed, dam designs and drawings will be done when resources are available. Dam construction will only commence once the detailed designs and drawings are done.

 

Madam Speaker, the proposed Gumba Dam site in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency is one of the several potential dam sites that has been investigated for dam construction and is among the sites earmarked for detailed feasibility studies. Once these studies are done, the ministry will plan for the construction of the proposed dam.

 

Madam Speaker, the estimated timeframe will only be known once the feasibility studies are finalised.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

 

Mr Kufakwandi (Sesheke Central): Madam Speaker, does the Government have a national plan for the construction of small dams. If so, could this plan be availed to us so that we know which constituencies or districts are covered.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, there is a national plan for small dams construction. This can be made available at a later date.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister are you able to make that available to all the hon. Members of Parliament?

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I can.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, what has happened to the World Bank loan which was meant to finance the construction of dams in various places, particularly the Southern Province? We do not want to be coming to the Floor of this august House and ask questions on the construction of dams. What is the actual position?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The answer must not be restricted to the Southern Province, but it must be general to cover the whole country pertaining to that funding.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, the country signed an agreement with the World Bank to construct about 100 small dams across the country. Unfortunately, this is a matter which we are reviewing because the pace at which the construction has taken place has been very slow. So far, about eighty dams have been constructed while eight are in the process of being constructed. However, we are negotiating an increase in the number of dams to be constructed. This is an issue we are reviewing with the World Bank because during the course of implementing, some issues have arisen. That also, certainly, includes the Southern Province. I am aware of this programme, but the process has been a little bit slow.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you will keep the House informed on the way forward because this is a very important programme.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, yes. This is so important that the Office of the Vice-President showed a lot of concern over it. In fact, an emergency meeting was called so that we could give a status report on the performance of this World Bank project. Therefore, if the House insists that this information should be known and tabled before Parliament, then I will seek the guidance of the Office of the Vice-President, so that that information can be given to Parliament.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, as I said, this is a very important programme. The hon. Members of Parliament must not insist to have the information. Instead, you must be pro-active and bring that information to them.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: This is for the benefit of the people that they serve.

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out in which province the eighty dams are sitting.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We are now diverting from the question, which was about Gumba Dam. The hon. Minister has given a general response on the project that the hon. Leader of the Opposition asked about.

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Speaker, we have been informed that during the implementation of the World Bank project, there were some issues and challenges that arose. Is the hon. Minister in a position to inform this august House what these issues and challenges, are so that we are brought up to speed?

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, that is, indeed, an important question. However, those issues will be part and parcel of the comprehensive submission that I will make to Parliament regarding the project.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Question 190 has been withdrawn, so we move to the next Question.

 

BRIDGES IN MUFUMBWE DISTRICT

 

191. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

 

1. when the construction of the following bridges in Mufumbwe District would commence:

 

1. Musowenji; and

 

1. Miluji;

 

1. what the cost of constructing each bridge was; and

 

1. what the time-frame for constructing each bridge was.

 

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Chitotela): Madam Speaker, the construction of Musowenji Bridge will commence in the first quarter of 2019, upon procurement of the works contractor.  The bridge is covered under the ACROW Bridges Project. Designs are currently being prepared and are scheduled to be completed by the fourth quarter of 2018.

 

Madam Speaker, the construction of Miluji (Chitwa) Bridge will commence in the first quarter of 2019, upon procurement of the works contractor. The bridge is covered under the ACROW Bridge Project. Designs are currently being prepared and are scheduled to be completed by 4^th April, 2018.

 

Madam Speaker, the cost of constructing the two bridges will be determined once the designs have been completed and the contractor has been found. The timeframe for the completion of the project will be nine months from the commencement date.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, I would like to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister the fact that due to the absence of a bridge on this river, travelling to other parts of Mufumbwe has become very expensive. This is because to get to Mufumbwe Boma, one has to cover a distance of 460 km. Whenever one wants to go to the Boma, they have to pass through Kasempa, which makes it even more expensive. I thank the hon. Minister for telling the people of Mufumbwe, who are listening, that this bridge will be constructed next year. However, I would like to know the immediate measures that the Government will put in place so that the road can be made accessible to the people. These immediate measures will also lessen the kilometres to be covered by people by almost 260 km.

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for acknowledging the efforts made by this Government in trying to put up a crossing point to make the movement easier for our people. We are committed to making sure that we begin implementing the project in the first quarter of 2019. However, in the interim, I will engage the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to see if the pontoon we are pulling off can be moved to that point to allow people to cross to the other side of the district.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I am glad the hon. Minister mentioned that this project would be looked at in the first quarter of 2019, under the ACROW Bridge project. This project has been talked about for close to three years. A lot of bridges are waiting for this project, not excluding the one under discussion. What is the challenge with this ACROW project so that we appreciate what is holding its implementation?

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, we may not necessarily have serious challenges other than administrative ones, but we are almost there. Designing will be completed by the end of the second quarter and we hope to start constructing the bridges by the beginning of the third quarter. However, we need to do feasibility studies and measure the desired length at every crossing so that we can equally distribute the bridges to the needy areas. We are trying to avoid a situation where we take materials back and forth which will cause people in the provinces to complain. We want to ensure that we put them at central store and then start distributing them as and when need arises. I assure the people of Mufumbwe that they have been captured and will be considered for the ACROW Bridges.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwene (Mangango): Madam Speaker, the people of Miluji access most of their services from Kaoma through Shitwa. The hon. Minister has just mentioned that the bridge will be completed in the first quarter of 2019. Which works have commenced so far for this bridge to see its completion in the first quarter of 2019?

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, maybe I was not clear. I said the project begins in 2019 and it is estimated that bridge will be completed within a period of nine months. We are currently carrying our feasibility studies which we expect to be completed in the fourth quarter of 2018 so that we start laying the ACROW Bridge in Miluji in 2019.

 

Madam Speaker, I know the area very well because I have travelled there. You need to go through Kasempa and Kamizeke before you reach that area. I understand the challenges the people of Mufumbwe are facing.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, there is no place in Zambia called Kamizeke. The hon. Minister is trying to refer to Kamizekezeke in Mufumbwe near Muluzhi and Mushima.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, where will the funds to construct this passage come from? I ask this question because I know that there are many projects that the PF has abandoned on account of having no money.

 

Mr Ngulube: Question!

 

Mr Nkombo: Further, last time the Head of State made a pronouncement that they should concentrate only on the projects that are 90 per cent complete. I want to know where the Government will find this money because in many constituencies they have abandoned work on township roads and the like.

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, said projects that are above 80 per cent and not 90 per cent. The hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka has been in the Chamber long enough to time and understand that the ACROW Bridges were procured in 2013. All that was remaining was the facilitation of designs so that they are delivered in Zambia. In as much as we are implementing the projects that we need to complete, we have economic projects like the Kafue/Turn Park to Mazabuka/Monze. We have agreed to source for funding to start that project because it is a special project. The people of Mufumbwe also deserve a bridge for ease of movement just like the people of Mazabuka want a smoother road from Lusaka to Mazabuka. We will not discriminate against the people of Mufumbwe in favour of other people. We will distribute economically viable projects that support the movement of people equally and equitably.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

CALIDONIAN MINE IN MUSHINDAMO DISTRICT

 

192.  Mr Kintu (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 

1. whether the Calidonian Mine in Mushindamo District had resumed operations;

 

1. what type of Minerals were mined; and

 

1. whether the Government had any plans to appeal to the mining company to rehabilitate the roads which are in a bad state in Solwezi East Parliamentary Constituency.

 

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Musukwa): Madam Speaker, Caledonia Mine no longer possesses a mining license in Mushindano District. The licence was taken over by another mine called Suhails International Limited in 2015. However, the new owners have not yet started undertaking any mining operations at the site because they are still awaiting the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) from Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA).

 

Madam Speaker, no minerals are being extracted from the proposed mine site. Once in operation, the mine will be producing copper and cobalt. The Government is encouraging mining companies to take cooperate social responsibility seriously in the environment in which they are operating. Companies are urged to work with stakeholders to address some of the challenges communities are facing such as poor road infrastructure, education and health.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

BOREHOLES IN MUSHINDAMO DISTRICT

 

193. Mr Kintu (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection:

 

(a)        whether the Government had any plans to sink boreholes in Mushindamo District;

 

(b)        if so, when the plans would be implemented;

 

(c)        how many boreholes were earmarked for sinking; and

 

(d)        where the boreholes would be situated.

 

The Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection (Dr Wanchinga): Madam Speaker, in response to the question asked by Hon. Kintu, I wish to inform the House that the Government under the 2016 to 2030 National Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme has plans to sink boreholes in Mushindamo District.

 

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented under the 2018 work plan.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has planned to sink a total of ten boreholes in Mushindamo District in 2018.

 

Madam Speaker, the selection of areas where the boreholes will be situated in Mushindamo District will be determined by the local authority, with the help of councillors who are the key persons in this project.

 

Let me hasten to add, Madam Speaker, that the actual site of a borehole is determined by a number of factors such as the rock formation, water table and the density of the population in the catchment area to be served. All in all the responsibility of determining where boreholes should be drilled is the responsibility of the local authority.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kintu: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the people of Musaka draw water in the nearby Democratic Republic of the Congo?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Oh!

 

Hon. Government members: Question!

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I am not aware that members of this community draw water from a neighbouring country. However, I am not surprised. In some border areas, the boundaries are so diffused that sometimes you will not even know where the boundary is. If you go to Vubwi, for instance, sometimes you will be driving not knowing you are in Malawi.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: In Vubwi?

 

Laughter

 

Dr Wanchinga: In Eastern Province.

 

One moment you are in Malawi another moment you are in Zambia. And so, in border areas, it is possible that people can be drawing water from a neighbouring country. Certainly, that is not desirable and it is our wish that all the facilities that our people desire are acquired within the boundaries of their own country Zambia.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, you may have noticed that questions of a similar nature have been appearing on the Order Paper for quite some time now. I just want to find out from the hon. Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection if he has any intention of bringing the Annual Work Plan to this august House so that all of us can be knowledgeable and aware of boreholes that will be constructed in our constituencies other than continuously asking questions of a similar nature.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I would support the suggestion made by the hon. Member. Certainly, it is a good idea for subjects that attract a lot of questions of a similar nature year in year out that we provide work plans. That is why, at one point, when I was Minister of General Education; I was almost tempted to make a recording of my answers to similar questions which were recurring. I think we can avoid that by providing work plans, so that each hon. Member can follow the work programme of the ministry.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The question is when the work plan will be provided to the hon. Members.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I will consult my colleagues at the ministry. Our wish is to to provide the work plan to the House within this quarter.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether when the boreholes that are sunk, the water is first tested before it is consumed by the people and if at all the ministry has a programme to flash out some of the boreholes that may have a lot of iron in them.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I think the House will recall that when we convened, a similar question was asked and I made a comment that we are aware as a ministry that certain boreholes are not used because of iron content. There is a lot of rust. That is why we are proposing of moving away from the technology of using iron pipes to plastic and other technologies that will not lead us to having boreholes not used after drilling them at a great cost. Certainly, this situation is going to change. We also do test these boreholes once they are drilled because sometimes a borehole may be drilled during the rainy season like this time and may give a false reading because the water table has gone up and you can hit water at about eleven or twenty metres, but during the dry season the table goes down. That is why it is very important that we ensure that we get a good yield once a borehole is drilled.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question is, do you test the water quality in these boreholes?

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I will check with my colleagues on this one, but certainly, it is standard procedure that once a borehole is drilled you do two things, test the output of the borehole and secondly, you also ensure that a sample of water is taken, so that the water that is going to be consumed by people is clean and of good quality. That is the standard procedure.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that he would like to drill ten boreholes in Zambezi East…

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Solwezi East.

 

Mr Jere: …Solwezi East, would he be in a position to tell us how much each borehole will cost.

 

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, can I ask the indulgence of the hon. Member to repeat the Question.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: He wants to know the cost of each borehole that you are going to drill in Solwezi East.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Like I said, this amount can be lower depending upon where the drilling is being done. If you drill a borehole in Lusaka, and you hit the water at 20 metres, and the cost of transporting pipes would not be the same if you are drilling a borehole in North Western Province. The cost is determined by the transportation, the rock formation etc, but the average cost is K40,000.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

 

Mr Kintu: Madam Speaker, in Mushindamo, there are wards such as Munsaka and Mujimanzovu. Where exactly is this Government planning to drill these ten boreholes that have been earmarked for Mushindamo?

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I wish the hon. Member was paying attention to what I was saying earlier on. I said that it is the responsibility of the councils to identify sites with the help of the councilors as local leaders. They take into considering a number of factors such as the density of the population, the water tables and other factors. Certainly, it is not the ministry to pin-point the exact sites where the boreholes will be drilled. If the hon. Member is interested, he can engage the local councils to determine where those sites for drilling boreholes should be.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mweetwa (Choma): Madam Speaker, it is a pity I have to ask a question of this nature because not too long ago, the hon. Minister was in another ministry and now, he is being taken to task to answer questions on issues that he may completely be innocent about.

 

Madam Speaker, in places such as Choma and Mazabuka, there are water drilling rigs. In the case of Choma, that equipment has been parked for about two years without any movement.  The people at the water affairs sector are saying that to drill a borehole using that machinery which is brand new, it is costing K38,000. That asset has been parked for two years in Choma and yet, people have no boreholes. Can the hon. Minister tell me what plans he has for that equipment as a new minister so that I do not come to ask him this question again?

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I am not sure of the angle from which the hon. Member is approaching the issue of parked drilling machines. Is it whether we have plans to utilise those machines which have been parked for a long time? Could the hon. Member clarify his question?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Choma will restate the question.

 

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, in the case of Choma, just like Mushindamo, we have brand new Government drilling machines that have been parked for two years. As the hon. Minister in this ministry, what plans does he have so that we do not begin to come here to ask him these questions when the machinery is on the ground and doing nothing? Can the hon. Minister answer my question and not pretend as though he cannot hear what I am saying.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister has my protection.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I will continue to bask in your protection.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I see the question more of a concern because it talks about the expensive equipment that we have procured at a reasonable cost, but we are not putting it to good use. The hon. Member is asking me as the minister in this sector what I am going to do. Certainly, I will make sure that we use these facilities. I will ensure I go to Choma to see these machines and look at the programmes we have for drilling boreholes. We will make sure that we use this same equipment.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

WATER RETICULATION SYSTEM IN MUSELEPETE TOWNSHIP IN KASEMPA DISTRICT

 

194. Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa) asked the Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection:

 

1. whether the Government had any plans to improve the water reticulation system in Muselepete Township in Kasempa District;

 

1. if so, what the plans were; and

 

1. when the plans would be implemented.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I thought I had moved away from the Ministry of General Education to some kind of safe haven.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There is no safe haven.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, the Government indeed, has plans to improve the water reticulation system in Muselepete Township in Kasempa District. The Government plans to construct a water reticulation system to improve water service delivery through the construction of water kiosks to serve about 300 individual households through this. Consequently, the designs have been done and approved. We hope that this programme will continue. These plans will be implemented as soon as we have acquired sufficient funds for this particular programme.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, there has been real grievances in Muselepete. Those grievances are justified that women wake up around 0400 hours and 0500 hours to go and queue up for water because of the inadequacy of the facilities that are available at the moment. The North-Western Water and Sewerage Company was called in to undertake an assessment. From that assessment, they agreed with the community that there was need for better facilities beyond the regular kiosks. There was an application that was made to the devolution trust fund by the North-Western Water and Sewerage Company. What is the status of that application? Is the North-Western Water and Sewerage Company going to be funded to help provide for more enhanced technologies for water systems?

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, it is indeed, a very sad situation to see our women getting up in the early hours of the morning to draw water. As we all know, this is a practice that negatively impacts upon the girl child because some of them may have to wake up early in the morning to draw water before they go to school. The Government is committed to ensuring that the North-Western Water and Sewerage Company is adequately funded to ensure that it provides this water supply to our people. Certainly, we are committed to funding that particular programme.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, the issue of water supply is very critical to most, if not all, townships in the North-Western Province. The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the North-Western Water and Sewerage Company when approached always says that it has no money. The hon. Minister mentioned that the Muselepete Water Reticulation Project will be done as soon as the money is made available. Where is this money expected to come from in order for it to be available for this particular project and other projects in the North-Western Province?

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, that is, indeed, a very good question. I think all of us in the House are aware that the Government has made a lot of decisions in terms of improving service delivery. The economic reforms made in terms of removing subsidies on fuel and other things will result into increased cash flow through the Treasury. It is my sincere hope that with these reforms that the Government is making to stabilise and improve the economy, it should be able to raise enough money in the near future to implement the programmes being talked about.

 

Madam, secondly, let me also hasten to add that many water and sewerage companies are owed a lot of money. Some of them are owed money by line ministries such as the Ministries of Health, General Education and so forth. Therefore, they are unable to implement their programmes because of the large debts that they are owed. This is one of the challenges that they have in terms of having liquidity to implement their programmes. However, we hope to get corporating partners on board to assist in the implementation of the Muselepete Water Reticulation Project. Let me also mention that an amount of K3.5 million will be utilised in improving service delivery in various provinces. This amount was already sourced and is available.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, I am glad the hon. Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection has answered some of the questions. I would like to ask my question by way of stating a proverb in my language that says ‘ichimunati kuyivunda nikulusesa chochimo’…

 

Mr Ngulube: Question!

 

Mr Kambita: … literally translated as, what you have heard from the thicket is just as it is near the plains. Therefore, the Muselepete case is very similar to cases in many other parts in Zambezi District. In townships like Mushona, Musekelembwa, Mukandakunda and Chitokoloki where the problem of water reticulation …

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Ask the question, hon. Member.

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, in as much as the hon. Minister has elaborated the availability of some funds and that a few water points will be put in Muselepete, does the ministry have a national plan on water reticulation which we will all buy into and will also hold you accountable to implement countrywide in our constituencies?

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I think earlier on, I made a commitment that I will provide the plans that the ministry has in terms of water reticulation, borehole drilling and water dam construction.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kintu (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, there is no pressure in some areas dotted around Muselepete. Why is it that the water that comes from the taps does not have pressure?

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, could the hon. Member clarify whether there is no pressure from water …

 

Laughter

 

Dr Wanchinga: … or the boreholes? 

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: In fact, hon. Minister, it is unrelated to the question.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Madam Speaker, the problem of water reticulation in Muselepete area in Kasempa is not unique and confined to Kasempa, but is a general problem in the whole country in respect of water services being provided by water utility companies. These companies are legal entitles and I want to submit that, part of the reason there is a problem of water service provision, and other services associated thereof, is the way board members are appointed. What is the logic of the Government continuing to appoint board members of these companies and thereby even centralising such appointments when they are talking about decentralisation? Water utility companies are supposed to operate away from the Government and to be commercial at mind.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, indeed, the hon. Member is raising very important structural issues concerning the performance of water and sewerage entities. However, like I said earlier on, I think the levels of indebtness in which these institutions have found themselves is because line ministries are delapidated. The debt levels cripple the operations of these institutions.

 

However, as regards the issue of membership of the boards and the levels of centralisation, perhaps, this is an issue that I will need to look at. Certainly, most of these entitles need new board members and as we begin to appoint them, we will look at some of the issues that the hon. Member has raised. However, the Government is committed to the issue of decentralisation and would like to have a situation where these entities operate as efficiently as possible. I think we will need to study the issue of management and see how we can streamline the operations of these entities so that they begin to play a meaningful role in the development of this country through the water sector.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, I want to bring it to the attention of the hon. Minister that the issue of the urgency of water is very emotive in Muselepete and in other parts of the country as other hon. Members have just indicated. One of the key issues …

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1810 hours until 1830 hours.

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that one of the social effects as a result of the water crisis in Muselepete Township is that byupo bisa kupwa ku Muselepete. Byupo bisa kupwa.

 

Hon. Members: Aah!

 

Mr Ngulube: Question!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is that the official language?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, what I am trying to say is that, some of the husbands in Muselepete Township have had to confront the area Member of Parliament saying that they were almost divorcing their wives because at the critical hour when they need them ….

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Tambatamba: … in family lines, they are not there.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Tambatamba: Therefore, could the hon. Minister, please, treat this matter with urgency before we have cases of Gender Based Violence (GBV) skyrocketing.

 

Laughter

 

Ms Katuta: Mwalakanisha abantu!

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will note that there is a serious problem.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Wanchinga: Thank you Madam Speaker, I can imagine the agony the men go through in her constituency during the critical moments.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Wanchinga: For that reason, Madam Speaker, we shall take the concern seriously because we do not want Gender Based Violence (GBV) to be perpetuated on account of disturbances caused during at critical moments.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, just to follow-up on the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasempa in which she referred to the men being disturbed at their critical hour.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: Besides men being disturbed at their critical moment, there are rape cases now happening to women who go to draw water as early as 0400 hours except for those who would just want to have a chance of getting pregnant. Imagine the women leaving home from 0400 hours …

 

Mr Mwiimbu: They are missing!

 

Mr Mutelo: … up to 1600 hours, kana anweba ba Patriotic Front (PF) mujinakisako ne lusa.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Wanchinga: Can I seek interpretation of what the hon. Member has said?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Mitete, can you just interpret and end there without stretching it any further.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Anweba ba PF!

 

Mr Mutelo: Anweba ba PF …

 

Mr Ngulube: Question!

 

Mr Mutelo: … kana mujinakisako ne lusa.

 

Ms Tambatamba: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutelo: Meaning that do PF Members have intentions and mercy to help the women ku Kasempa? It is because of the water crisis that some women are even drawing water from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) where there is instability.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Aya makaani, Madam Speaker, …

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Your Tonga is more prominent!

 

Laughter

 

Dr Wanchinga: Well, you will interpret for him.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Wanchinga: Madam Speaker, I think the point has been taken. Certainly, what the hon. Members are trying to say is that Government should take seriously the issue of lack of accessible water at nearby places for our women to draw from. The idea of the women waking up at 0200 or 0300 hours to draw water, and in some cases from neighbouring countries, is not a pleasant situation for all of us. Certainly, the Government has taken note of this and will do its best to ensure that our women are relieved of the pressure that they are going through.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

MATERNITY WINGS AND MOTHER’S SHELTERS AT HEALTH CENTRES IN GWEMBE CONSTITUENCY

 

195. Ms Chisangano (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Government had any plans to construct maternity wings and mothers’ shelters at all health centres in Gwembe Parliamentary Constituency;

 

1. if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

 

1. what immediate measures the Government was taking to prevent expectant mothers from delivering from their homes.

 

The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Madam Speaker, Government has plans to construct maternity wings and mothers shelters in health centres where such infrastructure is needed. This is in order for us to expand access to reproductive health services. This plan, Madam Speaker, is a progressive one and will be implemented in a phased manner.

 

Over the next five years strategic period, Madam Speaker, we have plans to expand infrastructure in at least three facilities and progressively we will expand infrastructure in other areas.

 

The measures Government has taken to prevent expectant mothers from delivering from their homes include:

 

1. building of maternity homes where we have already built;

 

1. encouraging mothers through safe motherhood groupings to report early to hospitals when they have high risk pregnancies; and

 

1. outreaches that are being done by our health workers regularly, to pick out mothers who need to stay near facilities or at facilities in order for them to deliver from the facilities nearest to where they stay.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Chisangano: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware of some clinics in my constituency that have maternity wings which are as small as a pantry and have old and dilapidated equipment. Is the Government planning to expand these small maternity wings and also supply new modern equipment?

 

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, where need arises or where there is a deficit in infrastructure for reproductive health services, and funds allowing, we will expand infrastructure. We are taking advantage of budget lines within our infrastructure operational plan and also our partnerships with cooperating partners to expand infrastructure for reproductive health services.

 

In Gwembe, there has been a partner who has helped us build infrastructure for primary health care services. This has added to the infrastructure available for reproductive health services in general.

 

Furthermore, Government has plans to build eleven health posts in Gwembe. With the contractor now funded, we expect that he will remobilise within the next two weeks. Therefore, Government is on course in expanding infrastructure for primary health care in Gwembe.

 

Further, Munyumbwe District Hospital is complete and open to the public. It is a state of the art facility and we have progressively started equipping it.

 

Madam Speaker, for the other health centres that do not have adequate infrastructure, we are taking leaf from what we have done in other places with the partnerships we enjoy. Certainly, we are going to expand such infrastructure in a progressive manner.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I would like to earnestly appeal to the hon. Minister of Health to favour the people of Gwembe. The hon. Minister may not be aware that Gwembe is one of the most underdeveloped districts in this country. This emanates from the liberation struggle that was waged by Zimbabwe and Mozambique.

 

Madam, most of the infrastructures in Gwembe are not fit for use. I would like to earnestly appeal to the hon. Minister to discriminate favourably and positively in favour of the people of Gwembe taking into account the situation and the people in that particular area first. Is the Government in a position to place Gwembe in a special privileged position considering other measures that were put in place by the Government to alleviate the suffering of the people of Gwembe such as the Gwembe Special Fund, which was intended to uplift the living standards of the people of Gwembe.

 

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, there is already positive discrimination for Gwembe. Today, Gwembe has a modern hospital. The state of the art heath facility is being equipped progressively, which is now open to the public. The hospital is built in Munyumbwe, which had no health facility in the past.

 

Madam, this is an additional to the old facility, which exists in the first part of Gwembe. The old facility is also being renovated this year. Furthermore, in guidance to the partners where to invest, Gwembe was prioritised how partners planned a number of modern health facilities to provide primary health care services. In addition, in our planning for 650 health posts, Gwembe got the highest number of health posts than any district should have gotten, but Gwembe got eleven. With the resumption of the construction of the health posts, Gwembe will have addition eleven health posts.

 

Madam Speaker, finally, Gwembe has been given a new ambulance to reinforce referral services and yet, many parts of this country still have not received any ambulance, but we have prioritised Gwembe and they have gotten an ambulance. We have posted more than twenty nurses just in the last few months to Gwembe.  Even this year, we are posting more nurses including two doctors. Clearly, Gwembe is favoured by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government because of our belief in equity of delivery of developments.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam, I am very excited that the hon. Minister of Health has given a good response to the people of Gwembe regarding the reproductive health facilities his ministry is about to improve upon in that area. However, I am also alive to the fact that the Government promised hon. Members in this august House about the construction of the health post. The hon. Minister also alluded on the Floor of the House that the ministry was going to construct eleven health posts in Gwembe District. Just like I am aware that ten of the health posts will be constructed in Zambezi District, six of which will be built in my constituency…

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Ask your question.

 

Mr Kamondo: Madam Speaker, I would like to know when the Government is going to embark on the project of constructing health posts this year. Could the hon. Minister be categorical and explain to the House when the projects will start.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Perhaps, the hon. Minister will restrict himself to when the construction of the eleven health posts in Gwembe will commence.

 

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, the construction of the health posts in Gwembe will commence within the next two weeks. The challenge we had was the counterpart funding. The 650 health posts project has been overcome because the Indian Government negotiated with us for the extension of the loan facility and we got and extra US$18 million. Therefore, the contractor has since been funded and he is just mobilising.  We have written confirmation that the contractor will be on site within two weeks in Gwembe.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in the position to come to this House to avail hon. Members the resumption of the construction of other health posts with the ones in Gwembe.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, yes, I am able to come to the House and give a comprehensive plan. However, let me give a bonus answer to my colleagues on the left including the hon. Member of Parliament from North Western Province.

 

Madam, the project of the construction of the 650 health posts is still the same. We knew that the contract for Angelique International Ltd was terminated for North Western, Northern, Luapula and Muchinga provinces for reasons, which were laid on the Table of the House. We have since hired another contractor, who was working in other provinces to actually do the work, which Angelique International Ltd stopped working on. The resources are now within the ministry of Health.

 

Madam, we are confident that the health posts construction will commence and within two weeks, they will start where they had stopped in, places where they just needed counterpart funding. Probably, in another two weeks, they will start in the other four provinces, where they will be taking over from Angelique International Ltd. As we speak, they are actively assessing what materials are on the ground and busy mobilising materials for the other places. Therefore, there will be activity everywhere health posts are supposed to be constructed between two and four weeks because the issues of financing or that of contractors is no longer there. Therefore, I would like to give an assurance to all hon. Members with that challenge.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms Subulwa: Hear, hear!

 

Speaker Madam First Deputy: Hon. Minister, now that there is no challenge of financing or indeed, contractors, when are you coming with a comprehensive statement for the benefits of the hon. Members?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, the ministerial statement is ready. We are just waiting for the appropriate clearances to come and present it. If you guide that we present it tomorrow, we will do that. 

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The guidance is that you should present it on Friday, 2^nd March, 2018.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chilufya: Much obliged, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Madam Speaker, part (c) of the question is on why our mothers still deliver at home. Coming from Gwembe and having grown up in that area, we are still very jealous people to see a man perform the duty of the midwifery on our wives. When is the ministry going to deploy more female midwives to Gwembe unlike …

 

Deputy Madam First Speaker: Order!

 

Hold on, sit down. The question has nothing to do with midwives. It has everything to do with maternity wings and mothers shelters.

 

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Do you have another question?

 

Mr Miyanda: Yes Madam. I am looking at part (c) of the question.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Yes!

 

Mr Miyanda: Madam, the question is talking about what the Government is doing to prevent expectant mothers from delivering from home. Is the Government not thinking of deploying more female midwives so that our women will start delivering from the health centres unlike the situation is now?

 

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, our human capital development plan is gender sensitive and we recruit and train males and females alike. As you know, there is a call for gender equality in all sectors. We train both female and male doctors and midwives and we will deploy them as need arises. Therefore, what we look at is the training, competencies and deployment of midwives as need arises and not their gender. We do not find that as a challenge in our delivery of health services. As a matter of fact, what we have now as a challenge is that there are very few male midwives and nurses. What we have now in Gwembe in terms of the ratio is that there are more female than male midwives.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

MINING CONCESSIONS

 

175. Mr Chali (Nchanga) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 

1. when the mining concessions between the Government and the following mining companies were signed:

 

1. Mopani Copper Mines Plc;
2. Konkola Copper Mines Plc;
3. Kansanshi Mining Plc; and
4. Lumwana Mining Company Ltd; and

 

1. when the concessions would expire.

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West): Madam Speaker, before we adjourned on Friday last week, I was trying to ask the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development a question on the corporate social responsibility of the mining industry in this country. This issue is very motive in the areas in which mines operate. This morning we heard the hon. Minister say that the Government is unable to share the mineral royalties being paid by the mines with the communities in the mining areas. Therefore, is the hon. Minister in a position to provide some details on projects which the mining companies have embarked on through corporate social responsibility for the last three years so that we start comparing on how these mines are fairing with each other?

 

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Musukwa): Madam Speaker, it can clearly be noted that the question I was asked earlier is about the mining concessions we signed and when they would expire. The question that the hon. Member of Parliament has asked is totally a new one which requires tabulated answers in terms of the cost profile of how mining companies have been disbursing their corporate social responsibility. It is a very emphatic question on which we would like to come and share with the House. Therefore, if our big brother could put a question through, we will be able to come and answer it and share that information with the House.

 

Madam Speaker, suffice to state that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government would like to see mining houses significantly contribute in the environment in which they are operating. I want to agree with the hon. Member that our people and indeed the Government have noticed a lapse in terms of serious contribution by the mines in our environment. This is why we are asking mining houses to up their game so that significant contributions in our communities are enhanced.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

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MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

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The House adjourned at 1855 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 28^th February, 2018.

 

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