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Friday, 6th October, 2017
Friday, 6th October, 2017
The House met at 0900 hours
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
________
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the Business it will consider next week.
On Tuesday, 10th October, 2017, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resume the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2018 National Budget.
Sir, on Wednesday, 11th October, 2017, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motion, if there will be any. The House will, then, continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2018 National Budget.
Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 12th October, 2017, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2018 National Budget.
Sir, on Friday, 13th October, 2017, the Business of the House will start with the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will, then, continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2018 National Budget.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
________
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
THE BENEFITS OF VISITS UNDERTAKEN BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT MR EDGAR CHAGWA LUNGU
The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Kalaba): Mr Speaker, I sincerely thank you for giving me an opportunity to appraise the House on a litany of issues that have been happening in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Sir, I have on previous occasions, in this august House taken to the Floor to state that the growing interdependence of countries on the continent and indeed the world as a whole, necessitates the need for high level representation at regional, bilateral, multilateral meeting and engagement, if Zambia is to remain relevant on the international stage.
Mr Speaker, the visits undertaken by His Excellency the President in this regard symbolize a major shift of how Zambia is leveraging her geographical position and strategic international relations in order to promote bilateral and multilateral cooperation as well as enhance inter and intra-regional trade under the spirit of south to south cooperation. The benefits of in-bound and out-bound visits by His Excellency, the President and Foreign Heads of State, respectively, can be immediate or long term and bring both tangible and intangible results.
Sir, the invitations extended to His Excellency the President by his counterparts takes cognisance of our country’s contribution to shaping the socio-economic development agenda of the region and the continent, as well as our active involvement in peace, security and reconstruction efforts on the continent.
Mr Speaker, as this House is aware, at the August, 2017, 37th Southern African Development Community (SADC) Ordinary Summit, Zambia was unanimously elected as one of the three Members of the Organ Troika on Politics, Defence and Security Cooperation. This is the principle arm of SADC that is charged with the responsibility of maintaining and consolidating peace, security and political stability in the region.
In this regard, Zambia as incoming Chair of the SADC Organ Troika, was represented at the Double Troika Summit, which agreed to put in place measures that would support the Kingdom of Lesotho to strengthen peace and security, to assist with the implementation of constitutional, public and security sector reforms and also to monitor and ensure that the rule of law is complied with. The Double Troika Summit also identified areas of priority to be implemented urgently through a SADC-managed Oversight Mechanism and also to reinforce SADC’s early warning mechanism in the event of signs of any instability in the Mountain Kingdom.
His Excellency, President Lungu, undertook to hold closed door discussions with the Chairperson of SADC, His Excellency President Jacob G. Zuma after the Double Troika Summit, in order to obtain a comprehensive overview of the political and security situation not only in the Kingdom of Lesotho, but also in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which remains on the agenda of the SADC Organ on Politics, Defence and Security Cooperation.
Zambia’s long standing belief is that peace for Zambia alone, without stability in the region, would not be in the interest of the country as we seek to be land linked to economies that will facilitate trade, investment and growth for our country.
Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia also travelled to New York from 18th to 22nd September, 2017, to participate in the High-Level General Debate of the 72nd Session of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) that was held under the theme: “Striving for peace and a decent life for all on a sustainable planet”.
Sir, the session presented an opportunity for Zambia to contribute to the discussions to find lasting solutions that can address global challenges as well as protect and advance the country’s national interests. Accordingly, His Excellency, the President, addressed the UNGA where he pressed Africa’s case for the reform of the UN. He singled out the UN Security Council as a body that needed to be reformed in order to be more representative of all countries.
Mr Speaker, in addition, His Excellency the President chaired a high-level side event on Ending Child Marriage in his capacity as the continental Champion for ending Child Marriage in Africa. The Event was organised by the Zambian Government in partnership with the United Nations Children's Fun, a United Nations (UNICEF), the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), UN-Women and the African Union Commission. The international community renewed its commitment and accelerated its efforts to end child early and forced marriages by 2030.
Sir, His Excellency, President Lungu, also participated in a number of other high level meetings and held bilateral meetings on the margins of UNGA to discuss peace and security as well as other developmental matters of interest to Zambia.
Mr Speaker, in advancing Zambia’s regional and bilateral relations, His Excellency, the President, joined twenty other Heads of State and Government to attend the inauguration of His Excellency, President João Manuela Gonçalves Lourenço of the Republic of Angola, on 26th September, 2017. The attendance of the inauguration celebrations of neighbouring countries by the Head of State is cardinal for the enhancement of bilateral relations as they give the head of state an opportunity to show solidarity to his counterparts and promote the spirit of unity in the region.
Sir, in that regard, Angola is a key and important economic partner for Zambia and our two countries share long standing relations. Furthermore, both countries are members of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Organ Troika on Politics, Defence and Security Cooperation and as such, it was of benefit to our membership to the Organ Troika that His Excellency the President participated in the inauguration ceremony of his newly elected counterpart.
Mr Speaker, in addition, the visit to Angola presented an opportunity for the two Heads of State to review the relations between Zambia and Angola. Their Excellencies discussed regional, continental and international issues of mutual interest, particularly, peace, security, stability and sustainable development of the SADC region.
Sir, in further enhancing relations with another key neighbouring country, Botswana, His Excellency, the President, attend that country’s 51st Independence Anniversary from 29th to 30th September, 2017.
Mr Speaker, Zambia and Botswana share strong bilateral relations that have transcended change in political leadership in both countries based on close historical ties as well as interaction between the peoples of both countries. Enhanced bilateral relations are necessary for the successful implementation of joint projects such as the Kazungula Bridge Project and other areas of mutual interest.
Sir, in addition, the two countries maintain close cooperation through a number of regional and international organisations in which they share common membership such as SADC, the AU, the Commonwealth and the United Nations.
Mr Speaker, I wish to emphasise that it is only by interaction with the international community, at all levels, that Zambia can meet its foreign policy objectives which seek to advance its national interests.
Sir, Zambia will continue to engage in political and economic interaction within the region and the world at large in order to drive the development process of our country through diplomacy. Furthermore, as the principle custodian of Zambia’s diplomacy, my ministry will ensure that the Head of State of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, continues to undertake strategic visits ...
Mr Livune: Question!
Mr Kalaba: ... as well as host his counterparts in our unending quest to pursue and safeguard the country’s national interests as prescribed in the7th National development Plan.
Sir, His Excellency the President has demonstrated his unwavering commitment to the attainment of Zambia’s development aspirations, which include improved health, good education and improved service provision for our people, overall growth of the country’s economy and the maintenance of peace and security in the region.
Mr Speaker, allow me, therefore, to end by calling on Members of this August House to support His Excellency, the President, ...
Mr Livune: Question!
Mr Kalaba: ... achieve our aspirations as a nation ...
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kalaba: ... as he pursues the economic diplomacy we have crafted for ourselves.
Sir, we are only as strong as we are united and as weak as we are divided. Let us rally around a common purpose as we aspire for deep sense of patriotism because patriotism knows no political party. We need to bridge the political divide and put Zambia first.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, the late President Sata and I told the Zambian people that they needed to change Governments because of the frequent travel of former President Rupiah Banda.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: We promised that the people that we would cut this unnecessary travel when we came into office.
Sir, I have been Minster of Foreign Affairs and a lot of meetings are only attended by Ministers. Has the Patriotic Front changed policy and did they mislead the people just to get into office?
Hon. Government Members: Question!
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: Further, how much has President Edgar Lungu spent on his travels in the last two years since has travelled forty-eight times against the ten times of the late President Michael Sata in his three years as President?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I would have struggled to answer this question if the hon. Member had not been through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
Sir, the hon. Member for Roan and I have had the opportunity to serve in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. If there is anybody in this august House who should understand the importance of presidential foreign travel, it is a foreign minister.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kalaba: How can somebody who has been in the ministry come to this august House and say that the President travels are excessive? These are the types of politics that make our people shun away from us as politicians.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwale: Waona manje?
Mr Kalaba: Hon. Kambwili knows, as well as I do, that visits for President are categorised. There are meetings that are structured for heads of state at UN, the AU, SADC, and the Great Lakes Region and so on and forth. That is why it is called ‘summit’. Summit simply means the highest. The hon. Member and I have been privileged to serve in the position of foreign minister and we should be better able to guide the Zambian people on the importance of these visits because our domestic agenda is only as strong as our foreign policy.
Sir, Hon. Mutati presented the Budget Speech last week on Friday. Most of the components in the Budget Speech are dependent on the foreign diplomacy of our country. If the President does not travel, the same hon. Members of Parliament in this august House will be asking why he is not travelling.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I remember …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: You will have to wait until there is silence. You can continue.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I remember I used to have a tough time standing on the Floor of this House in the past, when I was privileged to be Minister of Foreign Affairs in Mr Sata’s regime as well, may his soul rest peace. He was such a gallant of son of the soil. During that period, I used to be taken to task by my colleagues in this august House as to why President Sata was not attending certain summits and meetings. They used to mock President Sata on the Floor of this august House. They would question why I was the only one traveling. Some would even say that Zambia was no longer respected because I was the only one travelling. Now, we have President Lungu, who travels and the same people are complaining. The people who celebrated Jesus entering into Jerusalem …
Hon. Government Members: Shame!
Mr Kalala: …are the ones who took him to Calvary. I think it is important that we, as leaders, continue to inspire our people, permanently and consistently and stick by the truth. The truth is that every visit that the President undertakes is carefully looked through and analysed.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Ng’ambi (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated in his speech that Zambia has decided to go into economic diplomacy. The Zambian people want to know how much benefit Zambia has derived from the same global and regional meetings or engagement that the Government has been having with her co-operating partners.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, it is difficult for me to quantify because the investment has been huge. When we talk about Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) coming to our country, it is as a matter of economic diplomacy. If people look at the amount of investors coming into Zambia, from the East, West, South and West, they should know that all that is as a result of our economic diplomacy. We have seen that fifty-three years after our independence, we have managed to get our political independence. It is high time Zambia began traversing on the path of economic diplomacy. Therefore, benefits are too many to itemise.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Chibanda (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, let me begin by congratulating the Clerk of the National Assembly.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chibanda: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his eloquent statement to the august House and to the nation. During one of his foreign trips, the President had expressed concern on the influx of refugees coming into the country from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). What is the state of affairs on the happenings in DRC.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, on 15th October, 2017, I will be traveling to Congo Brazzaville to a special summit again on DRC. The issues affecting DRC are also affecting Zambia. We share the longest border with DRC of about 2,000 km. Directly or indirectly, what is happening there is of grave concern. Zambia as a member of the Organ Troika is taking time to study the situation in depth to see how best it can help, especially that its President is the Deputy Chair of the Organ Troika.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the President is going to be one of those who are going to Lesotho to discuss matters concerning political stability when in Zambia, there is political instability.
Interruptions
Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, we are all aware there is too much police brutality in Zambia and that most of the people are being arrested. We are also aware that one hon. Member of Parliament was baptised and slapped by two different hon. Ministers in the precincts of Parliament. Why is the President not concentrating on working on the political instability which is in this country before he goes to Lesotho?
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: I am not too sure whether I should allow the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs to answer incidents that take place at Parliament, but I will give him the liberty to do so. He can ignore my jurisdiction.
Laughter
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, Hon. Michelo should have listened carefully to what I was saying. I did not say the President is going to Lesotho.
Mr Mutelo: Hon. Mutelo?
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Kalaba: I said Hon. Michelo.
Laughter
Mr Kalaba: Sir, I said that the President travelled to South Africa to get a debriefing from his colleague and counterpart, President Zuma, on the happenings in Lesotho, which have left the Mountain Kingdom a bit shaky. The President was briefed by his colleague and brother, President Zuma. I also said that it is in the interest of Zambia, especially the President being the Deputy Chair of the Organ Troika, to get briefed, so that we can be an effective member of the organ.
Mr Speaker, as for the President going to Lesotho and overlooking other issues, I think the Speaker has guided. Zambia has been known as a country that has always advocated for peace and tranquility. We will continue on that path to ensure that the country continues to safeguard its reputation as one that cherishes that. By the way, we are one of the ten countries in Africa that has never known civil strife or war.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: The other strife falls under my jurisdiction.
Laughter
Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, last time I stood here, I mentioned that Kanchibiya is about twenty-six times bigger than Singapore. Singapore has developed a lot although were at the same stage at independence, if not better. The people of Kanchibiya are asking the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs when they will be involved in the delegations abroad, so that they can interface and benefit from the Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) as they meet foreign investors?
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I seem to have lost the last part of the question. I beg your indulgence.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kanchibiya please, elaborate.
Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, the presidential trips are creating opportunities for the women, youth and the development of the constituencies. My question is simple and straight forward. When will these trips abroad be of beneficial value to the waters of Kanchibiya and other constituencies, so that acqua culture and the animal industry will be promoted, so that tourism is grown for it to provide employment? When are the locals going to be promoted so that they can grow to be Dangotes?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Ngulube: Ema questions aya!
Mr Kalaba: Indeed!
Laughter
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I hear the question from the distinguished hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya. It is the Government’s quest to ensure that the foreign trips and meetings are interpreted at the local level. This is why we have begun the programme of twining provinces with other jurisdictions. We have already begun the twinning programme with China. We hope, as he has clearly elucidated, we can as well pick on Singapore as one of the countries whose GDP has been very impressive to see how Zambia can learn the best practices because at independence, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and Singapore’s were almost at par. Therefore, it is important that best practices are looked at.
Mr Speaker, the dichotomy that exists between travelling and not travelling is very interesting. On one hand, we want the people of Kanchibiya to learn best practices and on the other hand, want those that are supposed to be travelling not to be travelling. Therefore, how will the best practices be married?
Mr Speaker, yesterday as I was coming to Parliament, there was this guy on a radio programme ...
Hon. UPND Members: Guy!
Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the word guy is unparliamentary.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, there was this gentleman on radio whose name is Mr Happy or Proud or something like that?
Hon. UPND Members: Dr Proud
Mr Kalaba: Oh, he is Doctor?
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Kalaba: Ok. This man was harassing me on that radio programme. He was saying: ‘Harry Kalaba aenda maningi. Afunika ankaleko pansi.’ I said ...
Mr Speaker: Translate.
Mr Kalaba: Harry Kalaba has travelled quite frequently and needs to be in Zambia. He should not go out.
Mrs Simukoko: Jealous!
Mr Kalaba: I sympathised with the doctor ...
Laughter
Mr Kalaba: ... because by description, as Foreign Affairs Minister, I am paid to be outside the borders of our country.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kalaba: You should be worried when you see me here more often because then you know that you are not being represented well.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kalaba: We will make an effort to ensure that the benefits move from macro to micro levels. This is what we are doing.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Jamba (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, bilateral relations are very important. I have seen that some countries in the world do not speak alone, but have sympathisers. The hon. Minister is quoted to have commented, while at the United Nations (UN), on the North Korea nuclear weapons impasse.
Mr Speaker: I beg your pardon? I did not get the other word. What did he do when he was at the UN?
Mr Jamba: He commented on the issue of North Korea.
Mr Speaker: Oh, I see.
Interruptions
Mr Jamba: In fact, it depends on who taught you English.
Laughter
Mr Jamba: Anyway, the issue is that he commented on the issue of North Korea. Now, what effect has his comments on the bilateral relations with sympathisers of Northern Korea?
Mr Ngulube: North Korea not Northern Korea.
Interruptions
Mr Jamba: Do not confuse me. Just leave me alone. I am not English.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, please wind up your question.
Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, what are the effects of the hon. Minister’s comments on our bilateral relations with nations that sympathise with North Korea? I did not hear the hon. Minister say anything pertaining to the same.
Hon. UPND Member: Well done.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I had a premonition that such a question would arise and carried with me the press release which was done on 15th September, 2017. Sir, I am paid to do this at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and, before a statement of this magnitude is released, my colleagues and I sit and analyse it word for word. We analyse the meaning and implication of each word on the continental body. The words that the statement carried were totally misconstrued and, maybe, deliberately by those whose job is to pull others down. Even as I speak, there are others planning on how to pull me down, but ...
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Kalaba: ... here is what we said ...
Mrs Simukoko: Back to sender.
Mr Kalaba: Back to sender in the mighty name of Jesus!
Interruptions
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, we said:
“As a member of the United Nations and a State Party to the Treaty on Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, Zambia supports calls from the international community for nuclear disarmourment and subsequently urges...”
Underline the word ‘urges’ Hon. Njamba.
Hon. UPND Members: Jamba.
Mr Kalaba: I said Njamba.
Hon. UPND Members: Jamba.
Mr Kalaba: Oh, Jamba? Whatever it is.
Hon. UPND Members: Ah!
Mr Speaker: Order!
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Let us have some order! Continue hon. Minister.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I thank you.
“...urges the Democratic people’s Republic of Korea not to engage in provocative acts, but participate in the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula.”
Sir, my wife was very gracious and presented to me some of the comments and jokes about this issue. There was one particular joke which was circulating on social media that I also laughed at. There was this police officer cleaning his gun and was saying: ‘are you sure Harry Kalaba is talking about Kim wamene uyu waku North Korea or maybe he is talking about Kim Kardashian?’ I also laughed because it became a laughing matter. It became a joke.
Mr Speaker, how does Zambia come in? Let me bring the Korean Peninsula home. We have four countries in the Korean Peninsula. Russia and America come in because of the six party talks. There is South Korea, North Korea, Japan and China. Now, Zambia is a copper producing country and does not sell its copper locally. China is one of the countries that consume most of our copper. If China begins to fight and is destabilised, it will stop buying our copper. When this happens, our economy will contract. As our economy contracts, it will be difficult for us to create wealth and jobs.
Sir, we also receive a lot of bilateral support from South Korea and Japan. If you look at the statistics or ask Hon. Mwanakatwe and hon. Mutati, they will tell you that the kind of support that we get in this country just from Japan and South Korea is huge.
Sir, if the Korean Peninsula is destabilised, it does not have an indirect, but a direct effect on our country. Therefore, do not tell me that Zambia has nothing to say about North Korea. Before the UN, this is what is propagated as equality of states. The same platform that President Trump used to address the UN is the same one that President Lungu, used because it was crafted in order to protect both the weak and the strong.
Therefore, if the weak as you want to look down upon yourselves, should keep quiet in the face of injustice, and yet you have signed treaties, like in 1991, we became a state party to the proliferation of nuclear arsenal, so, if you want us to keep quiet in the face of such adversity, then you might as well stop being an active player in the diplomatic world. Zambia is very close to North Korea. Zambia is very close to what is happening in the Korean peninsula. This is not the first time Zambia has issued a statement of such magnitude. We issued statements when North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) invaded Libya, telling NATO that as powerful as you might be, I think we have advocated as United Nations (UN) that let us follow the channels that we need to follow. We issued a statement when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Do not tell me that Zambia had nothing to do with Libya. We all know what has happened with the destabilisation of Libya. We all know what has happened with the invasion of Iraq and Kuwait and all those problems around there. We have an inescapable responsibility as a country to talk about issues of this nature. It is only in your interest that this statement was issued. It is in the interest of job and wealth creation.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Jere (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, each time African Heads of States travel to the United Nations (UN) they always lament or plead for permanent membership in the Security Council. According to the hon. Minister’s assessment, is there any hope that any of the African countries will be a permanent member of the Security Council any time soon?
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Livingstone for a very progressive question.
Sir, our case, for Africa to be a member of the UN Security Council continues to rage on. I cannot tell when Africa will have a place on the Security Council, but I can only tell you that Africa will continue pressing its case based on the Sirte Declaration and the Ezulwini Consensus. It is important for us as a continent to have a place at the Security Council because three quarters of the issues discussed at the Security Council are on African countries. A quarter of the membership of the UN is from Africa. Therefore, the question is not only legitimate, but it is also moral that Africa needs to have space at the UN so that we can direct affairs of our own continent.
I thank you Mr Speaker.
Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for Foreign Affairs for the statement given to the nation. Before I ask the question, I would like to beseech the hon. Minister to answer in simple English so that the common man will understand because I always speak on behalf of a common man. There is certain English that they do not understand…
Mr Ngulube: Question!
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, you do not have that prerogative.
Ms Katuta: I thank you, Mr Speaker, for the guidance.
Mr Speaker: Just wait, I am not done.
You do not have that prerogative. In any case, I have not seen anything complicated about the communication by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Mr Mutale: Mukopo fye!
Mr Speaker: May the hon. Member for Chienge, continue.
Ms Katuta: Mr Speaker, thank you for the guidance.
Sir, the hon. Minister has told us the reasons the President has made all these trips abroad and that is to consolidate or reinforce relationships with other countries. Is the hon. Minister telling the nation that the relations which were established by the previous Governments have been estranged.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chienge for that question.
Sir, international relations are like a relationship.
Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!
Mr Kalaba: That relationship the hon. Member has, sorry to use her as an example, for she asked the question, with her husband needs to be refreshed every time. I have seen the hon. Member at Manda Hill with her husband walking hand in hand. I have also seen them having lunch and dinner together. That does not mean that when you go out with him, then you have differed at home. You are going out because it is important for that relationship to thrive. It is important for you to keep that relationship afloat. Therefore, it is only important that the relations we have crafted for ourselves and Zambia continues to indulge herself in, are kept healthy. As a result of these healthy relations, we need to make direct linkages. We are seeing more Zambians in the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) body, we are seeing Zambians at the UN and Zambia now, has a chair at the table of the African Union (AU). Therefore, it is these travels that relations culminate into this.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mwale: Culminates is a big word. Please explain to her.
Laughter
Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister.
Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!
Mr Chabi: Why?
Mr Mukumbuta: The hon. Minister’s speech sounded feasible, persuasive and convincing, but alas to say, yet misleading.
Hon. PF Members: Question!
Laughter
Mr Mukumbuta: Does the hon. Minister not think that his Government can fly the entire planet earth and if they wish, to other planets. However, as long as the cost of living for Zambians remains high, civil servants are paid pocket change, farmers are paralysed by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, your speech and statements will forever remain baseless.
Laughter
Mr Chabi: What is your question?
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Let us hear a question from the hon. Member for Serenje.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order, order!
Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the hon. Minister on the brief which he has given to the nation regarding various issues on the international front. I just wanted to know from the hon. Minister if there are any interventions that are being put in place to avert possible social and economic impact on the host country like ours regarding immigrants that are coming from Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I seek your indulgence, there was a lot of noise coming from the other end.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Serenje, repeat your question.
Mr Kabanda: Mr Speaker, I was asking if there are any interventions that we are putting in place to avert a possible social and economic impact on host districts like Serenje which are on the border lines considering the immigrants that are coming from the DRC… for them to jostle for the little water that is in the district and other facilities.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, in fact, that is a very important question because we are having a lot of our brothers and sisters coming from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) to Zambia. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs is on his way returning from Geneva, where there was a meeting concerning the same issues. We have been having meetings with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) on the same matter to see how best, the areas that are affected by such intrusions, can be assisted and assisted rightly.
Mr Speaker, we are working round the clock to ensure that this challenge is dealt with decisively.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the President in his capacity receives invitations to attend meetings. The President of Tanzania in most cases delegates his Ministers to attend meetings on his behalf. We all know that presidential trips are very expensive. Why can we not emulate the President of Tanzania?
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Kalaba:Mr Speaker, where I come from, they say ‘ing’anda ushilalamo baikumbwa umutenge’ …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kalaba: … literally translated as you will always think that the other house is better than yours or you will always think that your neighbour is happier than you. I will not drag Tanzania in my response, but I will restrict myself to Zambia. Zambia is in the international community for its own interests and is currently pursing economic diplomacy. I do not know the diplomacy that Tanzania, Malawi or any other country are pursing. When I speak about North Korea or any other matter at any fora, my interest has always been to safeguard the interest of the people of Zambia. Our interest is to know how our agenda is moving. As the scripture says, “he who puts his hand on the plough and looks back is not worthy of the kingdom.”
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr S. Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the ministry has a deliberate policy for the business community in Zambia to accompany the President every time he is travels out of the country? If so, how many businessmen have benefited from the forty-eight trips?
Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, before you proceed, I am sure you are familiar that we do not quote the scripture. Please, desist from doing that.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I did not realise that my colleague from Mazabuka Central was trying to raise a point of order because of my quoting of scripture. We are a Christian Nation and I am a Christian by faith.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, take a seat.
Mr Kalaba resumed his seat.
Mr Speaker:You are not the only Christian in this House.
Mr Livune: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: There are many others.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Therefore, if we want to revise our rules, we have the Reforms and Modernisation Committee that can do that. However, until and unless we do that, we have to abide by the rules. I have a faith as well.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance. Yes, a lot of businessmen have been accompanying the President when he travels and the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry has always been facilitating that. In fact, they go as the advance party, so they can interact with their colleagues. They pay for themselves. This is to ensure that we have business connections. In that regard, we have a lot of business connections. Maybe at some point, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry can give the details of the business connections that have been going on or the hon. Member may wish to take liberty to go and visit her to get details of how businessmen can indeed join in these very important travels.
Thank you, Sir.
Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, when responding to the hon. Member for Mwembezhi’s question, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs admitted that he was misquoted. This means that there is still a misunderstanding. I would like to find out from him as to whether that misunderstanding has been clarified with North Korea? This is because I saw a video clip where the President was addressing a huge gathering of the army and was saying that Zambia is a small country and they shall destroy it.
Laughter
Mr Livune: I would like the hon. Minister to settle my mind concerning that misunderstanding?
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, this is laughable. I did not even think the hon. Member for Katombola could bring that joke to this august House. If he can be hoodwinked by social media issue then I shudder to imagine how he is misinforming the people in Katombola.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I said that there was a misrepresentation of issues concerning the press release,which I will lay on the Table of the House, to help my honorable colleagues here. I explained why Zambia has interest in the Korean peninsula and why I issued that statement.I also explained that the power of nuclear arsenal is such that it can even destroy the entire globe and it is not a joking matter. It is a very serious issue that even in our poverty,we have the dignity to comment on such an issue which threatens our security.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity and for counselling the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs about …
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, that is water under the bridge.
Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am finding serious challenges with appreciating the hon. Minister’s statement about the presidential trips. He indicated that part of the achievements is to promote regional peace. Is he able to come back to this House with a list of personalities who the President travelled with lately to Swaziland? Maybe it was my eye sight and I did not see him, but I saw the President with some people who society believes are of questionable integrity.
Sir, social media is so powerful and we saw Presidents Lungu and Khama dancing. Is he able to come with the list of people who accompanied the President to Botswana so that we can scrutinise it using our oversight role and evaluate the value each individual, added by going to the places they went to with the President? There is adage in English which says, ‘show me your friend and I will show you your true character.’
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central for that question and I also thank you for counselling him for trying to bring issues …
Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, let us not go back over these issues.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker:Just respond to the question.
Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I do not think it is within my right to bring a list of people the President travels with. It is the prerogative of the President to pick who he wants to travel with on a trip. The hon. Member said he wants to see the list of names, but I thought he said social media is so powerful meaning that he already has the names. Therefore, he already has the information.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
THE RE-OPENING OF INTERMARKET BANKING CORPORATION ZAMBIA LIMITED
The Minister of Finance (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to render a Ministerial Statement. I refer to the point of order which was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central Parliamentary Constituency, Hon. Garry Nkombo in the House regarding the reopening of Intermarket Banking Corporation Zambia Limited (In Possession).
Sir, I would like to reiterate that the Government has successfully restructured Intermarket Banking Corporation Zambia Limited (In Possession). Further, the shareholders agreement for the restructured bank has been concluded and capital required made. The new bank will operate under the name Zambia Industrial Commercial Bank Limited and will take over the assets and deposits of Intermarket Banking Corporation Zambia Limited (in Possession).
Mr Speaker, management for the restructured bank has been appointed and will soon commence operations. The Bank of Zambia (BoZ) will, next week, conduct public hearings on Intermarket Banking Corporation Zambia Limited (In Possession) in Lusaka and Kitwe. These hearings will target people who have an interest in the bank which include depositors, creditors, shareholders and employees. The objective is to ensure that the interests of all the stakeholders are taken into account during this restructuring process.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, one of my key areas of interest is to know about the shareholders. In his previous statement, the hon. Minister of Finance had indicated that he would let the process be known to the public. He said that the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) was going to announce the new shareholding structure and its levels. I did not hear that in the hon. Minister’s statement today. Therefore, I would like to know if we are still waiting for that bit which I am most interested in to come? The hon. Minister has just spoken about the public hearings to be held in Lusaka and on the Copperbelt. What about the actual shareholding? I ask this because we are hearing rumours that the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) maybe part and parcel of the shareholding in this new bank which has come in to save the depositors. I want to emphasise that this is just a rumour. Could you confirm or deny whether or not NAPSA is a shareholder? I may have a follow-up question on this matter, but this will depend on your response.
Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. I have indicated that the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) will conduct a public hearing where all the details of the shareholders and the restructuring programme will be announced. Therefore, hon. Member, you may wish to attend that hearing on 9th October, 2017, at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, I am aware that some people were receiving their salaries through this bank. When the bank was shut down, some of these people were unable to withdraw their salaries. Are there any deliberate measures being put in place to ensure that those people who are suffering can be paid their salaries even as the restructuring is going on? That way, people’s lives will be taken care of.
Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, our core interest was to safeguard the depositors, creditors and the employees. That is why the Government took the decision to ensure the bank does not go under. That is why we have restructured this particular bank. All the elements relating to the transactions of the bank and how they will be dealt with will be made known to the public and stakeholders at the hearings. Those with an interest, whether it is salaries or depositors, should ask the Central Bank at those hearings where it will competently provide answers to all issues relating to this matter.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, there has been mistrust following the promise by the hon. Minister that the bank would reopen after ninety days. To date, the employees do not know exactly what has happened. All they hear is the restructuring that is being talked about and the coming in of new shareholders. Is there a specific date when the bank is expected to be reopened? Further, I would like to know the fate of all the workers in terms of whether or not they will all be retained when the bank reopens.
Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I thought that the hon. Member would first start by saying this is a great event and turning point in the banking sector, because there has not been a situation where a bank has gone down and resurrected. Therefore, you should thank the Government for undertaking this critical effort to protect and ensure that we do not leave employees, depositors and other stakeholders behind. The reason we are having the public hearing, starting on 9th October, 2017, …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order on the right!
Mr Mutati: … is exactly to address the issues that you have raised. There will be clarity with regard to when it will open, when one can access the money, including those that owe the bank. There will be clarity on how they will pay back what they owe.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr C. Zulu (Luangeni): Mr Speaker, I thank you, …
Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise this very serious point of order. As Members of this House, we were consistently advised by your predecessors that everything that happens outside is taken as a rumour and hon. Members of Parliament should not rely on what happens outside. Further, we were advised that members of the Executive have a duty to inform the august House pertaining to issues being raised. Is the hon. Minister of Finance in order to start referring hon. Members of this House to go and attend meetings outside, instead of him informing this august House prudently on issues raised on the Floor in accordance with the procedures of this august House? I am aware that the hon. Minister is a seasoned member of this House and therefore, he is aware of the procedures pertaining to issues that are raised on the Floor of this House and that he cannot, therefore, ask hon. Members to go and attend functions outside in order to get information. Is he in order not to tell this august House exactly what is supposed to be happening and what the shareholder arrangement for this particular bank is?
I need your serious ruling, Sir.
Mr Speaker: My ruling is: The hon. Minister of Finance, as he continues to respond to questions, will indicate the shareholding.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Monze Central, I am slow to comment on the other part of your point of order concerning whether or not anything that happens outside is rumour. We could run into a lot of difficulties. Perhaps we should go that route and take it that anything that happens outside is rumour.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: This is what Hon. Mwiimbu is saying …
Laughter
Mr Speaker: …so that I follow that precedent.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Luangeni, you were asking a question.
Mr C. M. Zulu: Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Sir, in his statement, the hon. Minister indicated that management had already been appointed. Who made the appointment? I would like to know.
Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the issue of NAPSA was raised. For removal of doubt, I can confirm that at the time that the bank was put in possession, NAPSA had deposits with the bank of an amount close to K50 million.
If the bank had gone under, NAPSA was going to lose the entire K50 million. In restructuring, the option was to have NAPSA convert that K50 million into shares on which they will earn dividends. I think that this is a prudent way of undertaking a restructuring and protecting the interests of the workers.
Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!
Mr Mutati: Who appointed management? It is the shareholders.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, the last time that the hon. Minister of Finance addressed this House on the same matter, he indicated when the bank would reopen. He further told us that the shareholders, who brought in some capital, had been reconstituted. I would like to find out whether or not the shareholders that are there today are the same ones that were there when the hon. Minister first addressed this House?
Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the answer is no.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kundoti (Luena): Mr Speaker, my question is on the job security of the workers. After the completion of the restructuring process, are we likely to see some job losses among workers who served with the bank?
Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I cannot give a categorical answer to that question because it resides in management decision.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Minister and president of the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD), I thank you for your statement.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Bweengwa, take a seat.
Hon. Members, if you go into the Handbook, you will find guidance on how to address each other. It is there in the Handbook.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: If you are party treasurer…
Laughter
Mr Speaker: You are not to be addressed as such here. That is not our business.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Or publicity secretary of a constituency, yes.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: We have specific designations. It is either you say ‘hon. Member’ or hon. Member for Mazabuka Central’, regardless of his party position. Therefore, the person that you are engaging now is the hon. Minister of Finance.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: He is Minister of Finance, whether or not he belongs to a party. There are some nominated hon. Members here, but you cannot say that they do not belong to any party. Continue.
Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned in his statement that this bank will be reopen soon. I am a Christian who has been going to Church since I was born and preachers are always saying that Jesus is coming soon.
Hon. Minister, are you able to tell the Zambian people the exact date when this bank will be opened?
Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I indicated in the statement that all the requirements to open this bank, including capital, have been fulfilled. Shareholder agreements have been concluded and the management is place. The Bank of Zambia (BoZ) will hand over the bank, which was in possession, back to the shareholders next Monday, 9th October and, thereafter, it will start its operations.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, apart from NAPSA, who are the other shareholders of the bank in question?
Mr Livune: Hear, hear!
Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, apart from NAPSA, there is the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), Madison General Insurance, the Credit Reference Bureau and a few others.
I thank you, Sir.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: That is what he can recall.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: In any event, he has already indicated that he will be giving detailed information.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: This is what he is able to recall. You want to task him?
Laughter
Mr Speaker: I will have the last question from the hon. Member for Chasefu.
Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, it is indeed gratifying that this bank is being resuscitated. However, looking at the uncertainty surrounding the bank’s opening, does the hon. Minister not think that when the bank reopens, there will be a rush by depositors to withdraw their money, thereby taking us back to the original position, where we are right now? Is there a way the depositors are being sensitised to assure them that the bank is now here to stay?
Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, when the bank opens, first of all, it will have scale. Secondly, it will be reliable and thirdly, it will have a sound financial base. Therefore, if depositors want to get their money, they will be free to do so without shaking the financial base of the bank. Those that owe money to the bank will have to pay back. The intention is that this bank will never go under because of the measures that have been put in place. This is the very first time in Zambia a bank that had gone under has been resuscitated. The intention of the Government is not to leave the depositors, creditors and any stakeholder behind. We should celebrate this moment.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
HIV TESTING, COUNSELING AND TREATMENT
The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to render a ministerial statement on the Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) testing, counseling and treatment, the famous Tipima. Before I begin, allow me to congratulate the Clerk of the National Assembly on the ratification of her appointment and also express confidence that she will take Parliament to greater heights.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chilufya: This also demonstrates the confidence that President Edgar Lungu has in women to occupy high offices.
Mr Livune: Question!
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, on 15th August, 2017, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, made a landmark pronouncement announcing that Zambia had shifted from the passive voluntary counselling and testing to HIV Testing, Counselling and Treatment (HTCT).
Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House and the nation at large that Zambia is currently implementing the universal routine HTCT in public and private health facilities. HIV testing is the gateway to HIV prevention, treatment, care and other support services. Peoples’ knowledge of their HIV status through HIV testing services is, therefore, crucial to the success of the national response to bring the HIV epidemic under control.
Mr Speaker, the policy of offering immediate treatment to everyone diagnosed with HIV provides three major benefits, namely:
(a) the quality of life is improved as opportunistic infections will not be there;
(b) forestalling progression of individuals from their asymptomatic HIV diagnosed status deteriorating to develop Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS). In other words, stopping the progression from just being asymptomatic HIV infested to AIDS; and
(c) new infections will be averted because those infected will achieve viral load suppression and, therefore, drastically reduce, if not zero, the chances of transmitting HIV from an individual who is infected to the next person who is negative.
Mr Speaker, the new approach of offering treatment and care to persons infected with HIV after diagnosis allows Zambia to pursue the United Nations (UN) Joint Programme on AIDS (UNAIDS) led 90/90/90 Campaign, which is translated as 90 per cent of persons living with HIV knowing their status, 90 per cent of persons who test positive to HIV being started on treatment and 90 per cent of those on treatment achieving viral load suppression to undetectable levels. In other words, test and treat combines both primary and secondary prevention of HIV.
Mr Speaker, allow me to give a bit of background. In the 1990s and early 2000s, before the era of Anti-Retroviral Therapy (ART) in Zambia, HIV/AIDS was seen as death sentence that was affecting millions of individuals and their families. Communities were plagued with funerals every day. It threatened the very foundation of society that resulted in millions of orphans and hampered socio-economic development and breadwinners were taken away. At that time, it was impossible to speak of an HIV-free generation.
Mr Speaker, an AIDS-free generation must have three important elements and these include:
- virtually not children are born with HIV and they remain HIV negative throughout their childhood;
(a) as these children grow from being teenagers into adulthood, they remain HIV negative due to a widespread range of preventive interventions applicable at various phases of development; and
(b) lastly, but not the least, the whole population has free access to comprehensive preventive, care and treatment for HIV in the event of acquiring HIV infection.
Mr Speaker, today, an HIV-free generation is within reach. It is attainable, but we need to run the last mile well. Globally, new infections and mortality due to HIV/AIDS have decline by over one third over the past decade. The reason for this has been because the global community has rounded resources and integrated efforts to fight HIV. Zambia has been striving and continues to aspire to attain the vision of having an HIV free generation.
Mr Speaker, like I said, this is possible if we all unite in implementing evidence based interventions. The proven interventions include effective treatment, voluntary medical male circumcision, comprehensive condom programming, eliminating stigma and discrimination and Prevention of Mother to Child Transmission (PMCT) of HIV.
Mr Speaker, our decisions are informed by evidence derived from research. Data shows that we have made tremendous progress in reducing HIV prevalence from 15.6 per cent in 2002, to 11.6 per cent in 2016. New HIV infections have dropped from 77,500 in 2010, to approximately 46,000 in 2016, amongst adults. Further, new infections among children also dropped from 26,000 in 2010 to 4,000 in 2016.
Mr Speaker, today 1.2 million Zambians live with HIV. Out of these, 800,000 are on lifelong Anti-Retroviral (ARV) treatment. This has improved their quality of life and has averted premature deaths. However, I must state that despite the numbers of new infections going down, the desegregated data shows that new infections amongst adolescent females, fifteen to twenty-four years old, have doubled. I should also state that new infections amongst young men, twenty-five to thirty-five years old, have increased. I should also state that 80 per cent of all deaths that we see at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) today are due to AIDS.
Mr Speaker, as a means of ensuring early intervention for better health results for all HIV clients, Zambia embarked on the UNAIDS fast track strategy, “Test and Treat”.
This is what informed the President’s pronouncement of universal routine test and treat. This is a mechanism through which Zambia will contribute to the global commitment of ending AIDS as a public health epidemic by 2030.
Mr Speaker, the test and treat strategy breaks many barriers which previously hindered or interrupted HIV interventions. Specifically, test and treat eliminates the need for determining CD4 count as a requirement prior to commencement of treatment. Test and treat will avoid delays in commencing antiretroviral therapy (ART) in rural settings where we do not have adequate laboratory facilities. Test and treat simplifies treatment and facilitates expansion of ART services. It also facilitates task shifting and decentralisation and generally improves retention in care compared to Pre-Art. All the Pre-ART registers are closed. Further, accreditation of ART sites is no longer a prerequisite.
Mr Speaker, the country abandoned voluntary counselling and testing because the uptake was very low and was not responding to our aspirations to have an HIV free generation. This new direction needs support.
Mr Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to talk about the actual practice of HIV testing, counselling and treatment. It shall be done routinely and universally. As one visits public and private institutions, HIV testing shall be offered. Medical ethics shall be upheld. Confidentiality and privacy shall be assured. I should state that preliminary reports from the Copperbelt and Central Provinces indicate that all the high volume sites have doubled the figures in terms of the response, which means Zambians have accepted this strategy.
Mr Speaker, for those who are not visiting the facilities, we have self-test kits. Self-test kits will be available in various public places. Those who will test themselves in the comfort of their homes or offices and test positive are free to come to the facilities, confirm their test and start ART. All our provincial hospitals are now working twenty-four hours and you can access ART services at any hour.
In the spirit of health in all policy that Cabinet has approved, we are engaging with all the stakeholders to ensure that these self-test kits will be available even in work places and we are already in discussion with the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security to see how this will be possible.
Mr Speaker, a multi-sectoral approach to ensuring that HIV/AIDS is combated and eliminated is very important. Let us not allow fate to take charge and allow people with HIV progress to having AIDS when there is available help. Let us all encourage the people to test and commence treatment when they are ill.
Mr Speaker, I have come with a sample of a self-test kit and I encourage all hon. Members of Parliament to take one kit today ...
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chilufya: ... and test to show leadership. I will lay it on the Table.
Mr Livune: We are ready, Sir. Lay them on the Table.
Dr Chilufya laid the self-test kit on the Table.
Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, this is a sample of a self-test kit and it is very easy to use. Once you open it, you just ...
Mr Speaker: You can proceed and demonstrate.
Mr Livune: That is right!
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, ...
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, this is a self-test kit. All one has to do is open it. It has a tube ...
Mr Speaker: It is a self kit.
Laughter
Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, this self-test kit has a tube and has this component which you use to swab the gum. Once you swab the gum, all you need to do is put the sample on this part of the self-test kit. Wait for twenty minutes. After twenty minutes, there will either be one band, which means that you are negative or two bands, which means that you are positive. If it is positive, just come to the facility to make sure that we confirm the test using the laboratory and we you will start treatment immediately. This you can do, in the comfort of your office or home. We have more than 150 samples right here at Parliament.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement by the hon. Minister.
Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I really appreciate what the Government wants to do, but I have a big concern. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government is a “Walk the talk” Government. I heard the President say that he consulted Cabinet and they agreed that HIV/AIDS testing should be compulsory. As Cabinet Ministers, I want them to demonstrate leadership by testing themselves in the presence of all the media houses so that the nation can be comfortable to do the test as well.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Let us have some order.
Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the pronouncement by His Excellency the President demonstrated some unprecedented political will to fight HIV/AIDS.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chilufya: And there has been no phobia amongst Cabinet Ministers to test for HIV/AIDS. Even during the campaigns, we had Cabinet Ministers who tested and even displayed their results publicly. We can mention their names here. We even had senior Government officials who tested publicly. There is no phobia. If we had phobia, we would not even have announced the policy shift. We have demonstrated political will to address HIV/AIDS and I urge hon. leadership in this Government to advocate for this game-changing intervention amongst their constituents. Women and children are dying. One million Zambians have died from the time HIV commenced. It is not time to play politics. It is not time to play rhetoric. This is not time to reduce this argument to semantics.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chilufya: This is an important intervention and hon. Members of Parliament, and Cabinet Ministers, should all participate in ensuring that the public appreciates the importance of this policy. Therefore, there is no phobia at all. What you have requested for, hon. Member of Parliament has actually been done. Now, I urge all hon. Members of Parliament to join. That is why I have brought the self-test kit. We have said that there will be no exemption. Even when you are an hon. Member of Parliament, ...
Mr Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.
[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was just about to conclude my response by saying that there is no phobia in HIV testing, as we have noted that there has been unprecedented bravery exhibited by the President in going public about this pronouncement. For this reason, Zambia has been recognised internationally for taking that bold step at that level of leadership. This is the reason we have brought kits …
Ms Katuta: Yali kwi?
Dr Chilufya: … for everybody else, even amongst ourselves to test. Therefore, there is no phobia.
Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chabi: Tipima!
Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, in the rural areas, it has become a common practice by rural health posts to allocate a day in a week, for instance, Thursday, as a day for collection of Antiretroviral (ARV) drugs to the patients and as a result, clinics are crowded on that day. Now, because of this practice, people are shunning nearby and go to faraway places to access the drugs because they do not want to be known that they take them. My question to the hon. Minister is: Does he not think that this kind of setup is causing stigmatisation hence defeating the purpose of confidentiality. Does he not think that by allocating a day for people to go and collect ARV drugs attracts stigma? This is because people suspect anybody who goes to the clinic on that particular day to be sufferring from this disease. What is the ministry doing about this?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, we are fighting stigma by way of providing services in our facilities by trying as much as possible fending off the aspect of stigma. We are providing services in an integrated manner. When a person is seen by a practitioner or when these drugs are being dispensed, it is done in privacy.
Hon. Members should remember that the test is confidential and the dispensing of drugs is also confidential. Therefore, there is assured confidentiality in our facilities as we dispense these drugs.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker and thank you hon. Minister …
Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised!
Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Health in order not to answer my question? If the Chair may allow me to repeat my question, and my question was: Why is it that in rural health posts a day is allocated, for instance, Thursday, as a day for giving ARV drugs to patients. As a result, patients are now running away to either other centres where they are not known because of issues of stigmatisation. What is the ministry doing about this to ensure that this kind of arrangement is avoided so that people can go at will and in a private manner to access these drugs?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, the issue is to do with stigma as a result of specific days being allocated for patients on Antiretroviral Therapy (ART). Can the hon. Minister take that point of order into account as he answers the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya?
May the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya continue, please?
Mr Miyanda: Madam Speaker, before I was interrupted by that point of order, I was about to say that about two years ago, the then Minister of Higher Education, Hon. Dr Kaingu came to this august House and announced that the Sondashi Formula was advancing. We were told in this House that they had taken six infected males and six males uninfected for experiments. Looking at the situation in the country where, at times people would go to a rural health post and claim that they have been given expired ARVs, considering that we are in such a situation, whether true or not, how far have we gone with the Sondashi Formula?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, I should have explained what I meant by saying integrated services. Integrated services, simply means that we do not want days to be allotted or labeled that this is antenatal day or this is ART day and so forth. What I meant by saying that we are fighting stigma by providing integrated service, is that today, an individual should go to a clinic to seek medical attention, whether their problem is having an HIV test or to get drugs or whether they have another problem and will be attended to. Therefore, providing integrated services is referred to what we call supermarket approach. This is a service whereby one can walk into a health facility, whether to seek ART services or other kinds of services, but will still get serviced by the health workers. This is one of the ways in which we are fighting stigma. So, this is exactly what I meant in response to the hon. Member’s question when I said we are providing integrated supermarket services.
Madam Speaker, I should also make use of this opportunity and inform the House that clinics have been advised and directed that they do not need to label a particular day as an ART day. They must provide services in an integrated manner.
Madam, on the issue of the Sondashi Formula, I would say that it is still undergoing some trials. The Sondashi Formula has been subjected to the due diligence that is subjected of all drugs or chemicals that are being associated with treatment of any particular condition. At the moment, we do not have evidence that the Sondashi Fomula is efficacious. Let us allow the due process to be completed before we make a final comment on the Sondashi Formula.
I wish to correct the impression on the issue of expired drugs. We are not giving out expired drugs. It is extremely important to state that the Government is not dispensing expired drugs in its facilities. It is for this reason that I would like to assure the House and the nation, that when we notice that the shelf life of a particular drug is within the next three months, then that drug will be issued for that period before it is expires.
Madam Speaker, what is unfortunate is that there are people who keep drugs beyond their expiry dates and then say they were given expired drugs. That is not fair. We use First In, First Out (FIFO) and First-Expired-First-Out (FEFO). We have drugs that we give out in a structured manner. Drugs that have shorter expiry are given out first and people who stock these drugs beyond expiry dates are doing it illegally. We do not dispense expired drugs from the facilities.
Madam, if you see anyone showing expired drugs to the camera, ask them when they got it from the clinic. If you come to the clinic in July and we tell you a drug is expiring in December, do not wait until January just to say you were given expired drugs.
Madam Speaker, we encourage people to follow instructions clearly so that we can follow the FIFO FEFO arrangement.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kundoti (Luena): Madam Speaker, the Test and Treat Programme is indeed, a good move for the nation. However, the procurement of drugs such as antiretroviral therapy (ARVs) comes with a lot of challenges. Does the Government intend to set up plants that will be able to produce these drugs locally?
Mr Ngulube: Boma itiyanganeko
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, the President when he was addressing Parliament directed the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Commerce Trade and Industry to ensure that local manufacturing of drugs is promoted.
Madam, the hon. Minister of Finance in his Budget Speech also announced that there are measures that will be taken to ensure that local manufacturing of drugs, including ARVs is enhanced. Relevant ministries are going to look at measures that may include wavering of certain taxes on raw material required for production of drugs locally so that they are cheaper and also ensuring that there are incentives for people who invest in drug manufacturing in Zambia.
Madam Speaker, there are already companies that have built infrastructure and will begin manufacturing ARVs by next year. We have companies like King Pharma and Mylan. Mylan has been supplying drugs to Zambia and they have now built a plant in the Multi- Facility Economic Zone (MFEZ) and will start manufacturing locally. There are other companies that have been in the industry longer and are also intimating that they will begin manufacturing. The Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) has received some dossiers and they are still doing the due diligence after which they will give clearance. The Government has taken measures to ensure that local manufacturing of drugs including ARVs is enhanced.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, it is clear from the statistics that we have been given that above 1 million people are HIV positive while 800,000 are on antiretroviral therapy (ART). In rural areas like Chama South, people walk over 20 km in order to access ARVs. In some cases, particularly during the rainy season when rivers are full, people cannot cross streams and end up not being able to access these drugs.
Madam Speaker, when is the Government finishing the 650 health posts for Muchinga, ...
Mr Chabi: And Luapula!
Hon. Members: Northern!
Mr Mung’andu: ... Northern and Luapula Provinces so that the people can access these ARVs and test kits at reasonable distances?
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for intelligently sneaking in a question on the 650 health posts.
Laughter
Dr Chilufya: The Government is committed to completing the 650 health posts. The stage where we are today is as I announced in the ministerial statement I made a few month ago. We have acquired an extension of US$12 million from the Indian Government for us to complete the health posts in Northern, Muchinga, Luapula and Eastern Provinces. We are also budgeting for some resources to cater for the difference that arose because of the termination of the Angelic contract. I will not give a specific date when we will complete the health posts until we complete the financing agreement, but be assured hon. Member that we are making investments in a structured manner to ensure that access to ART services are provided in close to planned settings.
Sir, I assure the people of Chama South that health posts shall be provided. In the meantime, ART services will be provided not only at the static sites, but through outreach programmes for people who are very far from static facilities.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, I want to take you back to the Sondashi Formula. Does the country have the capacity to conduct these clinical tests conclusively? If so, what is the timeframe for us to conclude all these tests because we have been hearing about the Sondashi Formula for a long-time? If we do not have the capacity, have we engaged any foreign countries to help us?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is a bit general, especially on the issue of capacity.
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, we have eminent researchers, infrastructure and capacity to do clinical trials for the Sondashi Formula and we are firmly on course. I must also state that the promoter of the Sondashi Formula has a role to play and the Government is complimenting his role in ensuring that we do due diligence. For now, it is undergoing the processes that all other drugs undergo before we certify them efficacious for treatment of any particular condition.
Madam Speaker, for now, let us allow the due diligence to proceed because at the moment, we do not have evidence that the Sondashi Formula is effective against HIV/AIDS.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Ms Mwashingwele (Katuba): Madam Speaker, my question is a rider on the questions asked by the hon. Members for Chama South and Chasefu. My concern is infrastructure. The mission is good, but my worry is the infrastructure, particularly in Katuba Constituency. We have clinics that have been constructed for over three years, but have not yet been opened This have left the people with distances of between 10 and 15 km to access health facilities. When will these clinics be opened, especially that they will now be overloaded with such an ambitious programme?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, let me assure the august House and the nation at large that when we talk about service delivery, we mean system components that must all be invested in to translate into the actual service delivery. So, for us to provide the Human Immunodeficiency Virus Infection and Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) services or indeed, any other services, we need to invest in infrastructure, human resource and drugs. When we talk about the universal routine testing and treatment, our programme involves not only making these drugs and test kits available, but also, strategising investment in infrastructure. Where there is existing infrastructure, we take advantage of those opportunities to open those facilities to the public.
Madam Speaker, in the past, we needed to accredit any facility to provide the Anti-Retroviral Therapy (ART) services. We have removed that caveat. We have decided that any little health post anywhere will actually be allowed to stock and dispense ART. For the completed infrastructure in her constituency, the Provincial Director has already been given guidelines to ensure that the human resource that we have is redistributed. We will ensure that the entire infrastructure that is completed is opened even with minimal staff, as we look for more Treasury authority to add up to the numbers.
Mr Speaker, we will engage the District Director of Health or the Provincial Director of Health in specific cases. We will ensure that where there is no infrastructure, working with the co-operating partners, we will either put prefabs or include that in our infrastructure operational plan to ensure that people access health services.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Chibanda (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, I feel technology has failed us. When you are in that seat, we should be seeing your beautiful face.
Laughter
Mr Ngulube: Ema setting aya!
Mr Chibanda: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the ministerial statement that he has given to the House, which he has professionally articulated.
Madam Speaker, my concern is on the treatment aspect. Recently, it was announced that in South Africa, they have trials for just one tablet per month. Are we as a country, considering going that route?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, there is a lot of progress in science to reduce the pill burden in ART services. In the past, someone would have to take eighteen tablets per day when on ART. Now, this has been reduced to one tablet per day. Zambia is participating amongst other countries under the World Health Organisation (WHO) and the United Nations Programme on HIV and AIDS (UN-AIDS) in following up on the new prospective that a person can actually take one injection to last him or her two months and also take one tablet for a longer period of time. Science is evolving.
Sir, I, therefore, want to assure the hon. Member of Parliament that we change regiments as evidence is adduced. In the past, we have had different regiments. As a matter of fact, some of the drugs have expired on us because of changing regiments. Once WHO approves the formulations that are of less burden or injections that will actually be given once in two or more months, Zambia will follow suit. Zambia is ready for the approvals which WHO will come up with regarding ART.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Madam Speaker, we appreciate the Government’s stance on the compulsory HIV/AIDS testing. Before I ask my question, I wish to proudly announce to the House that recently, I tested and the results came out negative.
Interruptions
Mr Fungulwe: Madam Speaker, today, we can have 1 million people who are on ART and tomorrow, the number will rise to 5 million. Can the Government assure the Zambian people that there will be no shortage of ARVs for the patients?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, even if the hon. Member of Parliament says he tested and the results came out negative, if he comes to one of our facilities, tizapima still more.
Laughter
Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear! Mpaka ichoke positive.
Laughter
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, the HIV/AIDS control programme is structured. We have been talking of values, morals, importance of family and practices that will ensure that children and parents remain negative. That is the first prong. That is why we have invited all the stakeholders including the church to ensure that values are entrenched to influence behavioral change to avoid new infections. It is not our expectation that these new infections will go up.
Secondly, the control programme is anchoring on prevention of new infections. Therefore, we are not anticipating new infections if we adhere to what we have put in practice. We are saying that once we put an infected person on treatment, the viral load or amount of virus in the body will go down. Therefore, the quality of life improves and people will also not be able to infect the next person. We do not expect the numbers to be going up. Therefore, by putting all mothers who are positive on treatment, the children will be born negative. By putting all people who test positive on treatment early enough, they will not infect their partners. Therefore, we expect the numbers to dip. We have hope for an HIV free generation.
Madam Speaker, allow me to state that there is a research which was done recently and published in one of the prominent newspapers, where 980 couples where tested. There was a situation where one partner was positive and the other was negative. The positive partner was started on treatment and there was viral load suppression. They were allowed to have sex without protection for a year.
Mr Ngulube: Sex is unparliamentary.
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, after a year, all the 980 couples were tested again and the number of new infections amongst the 980 couples was zero. That is very clear evidence that when someone is put on ART, their viral load is depressed to a level where they will not detect it. They will not be able to infect the other person and will improve their quality of life. With that approach, we do not expect numbers to be going up, but rather dipping.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: Who are you raising a point of order on?
Interruptions
Ms Kasune (Keembe): Madam Speaker, first of all, I just want to appreciate the President of the Republic of Zambia for his …
Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, for my sake, I would like to raise this point of order on the Department of Information Communications Technology (ICT). Is it in order not to applaud the image of the Madam First Deputy Speaker on the consuls?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Miyutu, ...
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: I know that the hon. Member for Mufulira attempted to put that across and you have decided to wrongly rise on a point of order on the Department of ICT, which is highly irregular. However, the reason that the face of Madam First Deputy Speaker is not appearing on your consuls is that she is sitting in the Chair which is used by the Hon. Mr Speaker. Should she speak from her Chair, you will see her face on the consuls.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: For now, since Madam First Deputy Speaker is speaking from the seat of the hon. Mr Speaker, you will continue to see the face of the substantive Speaker.
The hon. Member for Keembe may continue with her question.
Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, I was appreciating the President of the Republic of Zambia ...
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. UPND Members: Question!
Ms Kasune: ... on his announcement of Universal Test and Treat practice. For the longest time, we have been advocating for political involvement in the fight against HIV/AIDS. This breaks the political paralysis that has been in the country for a long time.
Hon. Members: Question.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Members!
Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, my question relates to the Budget that was presented. We saw that there is only 1,000 employees who are going to be deployed in this coming fiscal year. We are, therefore, wondering how this will actually work in tandem with the 90/90 which they are trying to achieve.
I also want to add that Keembe Constituency rides on the points that were raised by Chama South and Katuba Constituencies.
Madam Speaker, my second question is ...
Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can only ask one question at time.
Dr Chilufya: Can she repeat the question?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can you repeat the question?
Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, how will they achieve the goals of universal routine test and treat given that their capacity to employ is very low in the coming fiscal year according to the 2018 budget?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, this year, we recruited more than 7,400. We are adding 1,000 as indicated in the Budget and are still engaging the hon. Minister of Finance to see what other measures we can introduce through the innovative health care financing that could help us increase the numbers. We also have partners we are working with who will also recruit some staff and carry them on legacy payrolls for two to three years before they are whined off to join the Government payroll. Therefore, there are still discussions on how we could up the numbers. The hon. Member’s concern that we need human resource in order to provide these health services adequately is appreciated. It is something that we are looking at seriously.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, I am sure that Zambians will appreciate that male circumcision is one of the ways of minimising the spread of HIV/AIDS. Is the ministry trying to think of circumcising male children at a tender age and make it compulsory before they reach the age of ten?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, there is evidence that there is a 60 per cent reduction in the risk of acquiring HIV once one is circumcised.
Madam Speaker, we carry out campaigns every month for male circumscision. The policy of circumcising every child at birth is something I may not comment on today. However, we have evidence that male circumcision works, but that policy pronouncement would actually involve passing it through a particular mill. I just want to agree with the hon. Member that male circumscision is a high impact intervention that protects a lot of males from acquiring HIV/AIDS.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, allow me to thank the hon. Minister of Health for bringing us test kits. As you can see, most MPs are outside waiting for their results.
Laughter
Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, we have a problem in Kabwe Central. Katondo Health facility has been operating at half mast. This is to say that staff knocks off at 1600 hours. According to them, it is for security reasons. They would like the hon. Member of Parliament and the police to assist the clinic with security for them to continue working twenty-four hours. Are there any deliberate measures that will be put in place to ensure that the biggest clinic which caters for four wards is allowed to resume its normal operating hours?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, I would like to acknowledge what Hon. Tutwa Ngulube has said. It is true that the self test kits are running out. There is overwhelming response from hon. Members of Parliament.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, some are even boasting about the results. Hon. Simbao is already brandishing the results.
Laughter
Hon. Ngulube: Mwapusukeni.
Laughter
Dr Chilufya: My only worry is those who are asking for six and it is not that they are taking them home. They want to give themselves and some partners, but that is also welcome.
Laughter
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, Katondo Clinic is some clinic that was brought down by a riotous mob not too long ago because of some misunderstanding between the public and members of staff. I want to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for working with the Government in rebuilding that facility. We have staffed Katondo Clinic with human resource.
Madam Speaker, the issues of staff being threatened by just a few rowdy citizens is not enough justification for us to say we will no longer operate the clinic 24 hours.
We have engaged the Permanent Secretary (PS), the Provincial Health Director and the hon. Member of Parliament, to ensure that, one, the community is sensitised on the need to protect the health workers who are working at Katondo and, two, to protect health workers from a few citizens that may have ill intentions. We have agreed with the hon. Member of Parliament, the PS and the Provincial Health Director to ensure that there is security beyond 1600 hours. We have also directed that clinic should operate for 24 hours since it is a clinic that is more like a zonal one and provides services for a number of people in the catchment areas.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!
Mr Sampa (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Minister for his eloquent statement given to this august House. However, I am concerned and especially that the Government has introduced mandatory testing for HIV/AIDS amongst its citizens. Looking at the current trend of the younger generations who are sexually very active, why can the ministry not introduce post exposure prophylaxis to be administered to would-be careless partners in this vice.
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, the strategic framework for the control of HIV/AIDS leaves no one behind. It looks at people who are most at risk to acquire HIV/AIDS and those that are looked at most at high risk, are introduced to a programme we call PREP Post-Exposure Prophylaxis. We have that programme running for specific high risk groups.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Speaker, may the hon. Minister allow me to be slightly futuristic in my question. In an effort to combat HIV/AIDS, scientists in the United States of America…
Mr Sampa and Mr Chisopa both stood on a point of order.
Mr Lufuma: Should I continue, madam?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Both of you are standing.
Hon. Member for Kabompo, please proceed.
Mr Lufuma: As I was saying, scientists in the …
Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge, in order, to be walking bare feet in the House? I need a serious ruling, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: I cannot see the hon. Member for Chienge. Where is she?
Mr Sampa: She is seated next to the hon. Minister of Health, bare feet.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, for me to make a fair ruling, please stand where I can see your feet.
Interruptions
Ms Katuta stood in front of the Chair.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: From what I can see, the hon. Member for Chienge is wearing shoes.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Ngulube: One zero!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: She is, therefore, in order because she is wearing shoes.
Interruptions
Dr Chanda: Sha ba Sikazwe.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member for Kabompo continue with his question.
Mr Lufuma: As I was saying, I wanted to be allowed to be slightly more futuristic in my question. My question is, in an effort to combat the spread of HIV/AIDS, scientists in the United States of America have developed a vaccine against HIV/AIDS, is the Government of the Republic of Zambia, able to facilitate the acquisition and use of this vaccine in our hospitals in order to really combat HIV/AIDS in Zambia.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think I have given you enough time to enjoy whatever was being communicated. Now, we can proceed.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay.
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, there was so much distraction I did not get the question. May the question be repeated.
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister may have been participating in the humour that was taking place around his seat.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kabompo will repeat the question.
Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I was saying to the hon. Minister that he should allow me to be a bit more futuristic in my question. My question was, in our effort to combat HIV/AIDS, scientists in the United States of America are said to have developed a vaccine against HIV/AIDS. Is the ministry in a position to facilitate acquisition and distribution of this drug throughout the country in order to combat HIV/AIDS in Zambia.
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, we are aware that there is research going on that is looking at not only more efficacious drugs, but also development of vaccines that will protect people from acquiring HIV/AIDS.
Madam Speaker, even in this country, we have people actively participating in such research.
As a Government, Madam Speaker, we are ready to embrace any new evidence that shall be helpful in prevention. Therefore, in answering the hon. Member’s question, if I understood it correctly, Zambia will be sensitive and alert to any evidence adduced either locally or abroad to do with vaccine development that will help in prevention of new infections.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: I had earlier, indicated that I will end with Itezhi-tezhi, but because this is such an important subject, I will allow questions from Kaputa, Sioma and Lumezi.
Mr Shabula (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, I just wanted to find out whether those testing kits will be distributed for free in various places.
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, we are distributing them for free. Today, I came with more than 200 and stocks are running out…
Laughter
Dr Chilufya: I have received questions, Madam Speaker, that some hon. Members did not know what to do with the self testing kits. It is a very simple thing. You just swab the gum, then you put swab in the tube. When you remove it from the tube, check the window of the side of the tube. One bar will mean it is a negative result. Two bars it is a positive result. In just twenty minutes you will know your fate. Then you are linked to treatment if you are positive. Treatment is free.
Laughter
Dr Chilufya: Once you get free treatment, the viral load is suppressed; you will not infect the next person. You will not leave orphans or windows. Your quality of life is improved. No herpes zoster, no cryptococcal meningitis and TB. So, it is a win-win situation. I beg you to be the advocate for this very important policy shift.
Madam Speaker: I thank you.
Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Madam Speaker, before I ask the hon. Minister a question, allow me to congratulate the Clerk of the National Assembly for a well deserved ratification and appointment. My question is on the compulsory testing and treatment of the HIV/AIDS. We have evidence that nutrition is a very important component in the treatment of not only HIV/AIDS, but other diseases. What programmes are available to ensure that the nutrition status of the people especially those in the rural parts of the country like Kaputa is enhanced?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member that nutrition is a key social determinant of health. Zambia has adopted a multi-sectoral approach to health. Therefore, talking about the health of the people includes talking about their nutrition. This is the reason we have adopted a multi-sectoral approach and the Ministry of Agriculture and other relevant ministries that are involved in food production are working with us to ensure that the right nutrients are actually found in the foods that we grow. Further, the Ministry of General Education is also looking at a home grown solution for school feeding.
Madam Speaker, all these programmes, including those under social protection in the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare are all meant to ensure that nutrition, which is one key determinant of health, is addressed. By addressing nutrition, we are actually averting 70 per cent of health problems. Therefore, we are an interested party and the Government has adopted an all sector integrated approach to development and health and all of us are pulling towards addressing determinants of health including nutrition.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Ms Subulwa (Sioma): Madam Speaker, the routine HIV testing is a welcome idea. However, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if his ministry has the capacity to give Post Exposure Prophylaxis (PEP) or Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis(PrEP) as a preventive measure to an ordinary citizen exposed to the virus other than the current situation where they are giving it to discordant couples or those who are raped?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, we have the capacity to provide both PEP and PrEP. We are not only giving prophylaxis to discordant couples. We are actually giving PrEP and PEP to high risk groups. The National AIDS Strategic Framework 2017-2021, is cultured in such a manner as to leave no-one behind. Everyone classified as high risk is actually given prophylaxis and we have adequate drugs and human resource to handle that.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mrs Jere (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, looking at the user friendliness and simplicity of the self-test kits …
Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, I raise on a serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Health in order to give 200 HIV self-test kits to hon. Members before counselling them? We are aware that some may commit suicide after knowing the results.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukosa: I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The serious ruling is that the hon. Minister will address that matter as he responds to the question by the hon. Member for Lumezi.
Mrs Jere: Madam Speaker, looking at the user friendliness of the self-test kits and their simplicity, I would like to know the mechanisms the ministry has put in place to ensure that they are available to all the people especially those in rural areas such as Chief Kazembe, Chitungulu, Mwanya, Zumwanda, Chikomena, Mwansepango and in the nation at large?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, the Government is working with co-operating partners to ensure that the supply chain of HIV services is addressed and strengthened. In view of the pronouncement, we all know that HIV testing is now universal and routine. There may be an increase in the number of people who are found to be positive and, therefore, will be required to be on treatment and we have already started seeing that. We are addressing the supply chain of both laboratory or facility based kits and the self-test kits. So far, Society for Family Health (SFH) has distributed 200,000 self-test kits and they plan to distribute 600,000 within the next two years. Other partners are on board with their own numbers and the Government also plans to buy even more. The Government working with co-operating partners is actually looking at the supply chain and we do not expect to have a challenge with the supply chain side of things. The people in the rural areas will equally access facility based kits and also self-test kits.
Madam Speaker, concerning counselling …
Madam First Deputy Speaker: In particular counselling the hon. Members who now have access to the 200 self-test kits.
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, in the past, we had a policy of Voluntary Counselling and Testing (VCT), but now it has shifted to HIV testing, counselling and treatment. Therefore, counselling is there in the equation, but we will first need to test. I would like to assure the hon. Member that even if she goes to a private or public clinic, we will test her, tizapima. However, if one uses a self-test kit and is found negative, we will advise him to maintain his status by following certain rules. If positive, we will have to do a confirmatory test and he will be on therapy.
Madam, in the past, we would allow fate to be in charge. Some people would refuse to be counselled and tested and then would have Tuberculosis (TB), recurrent malaria, herpes zoster and cryptococcal meningitis, and they died within two to three years. These were breadwinners, celebrities and poverty austere and we have realised that actually the best is to demystify the disease so that testing becomes routine. That way, we will save lives. We need to remove the fear to test from the citizens and law makers. Therefore, the entry point is not counselling. It is testing and it shall be routine and universal. This is the only way we are going to have hope for an HIV free generation. Treatment is not only going to improve the quality of life, but it is also going to protect the next person from getting infected.
Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Madam Speaker, before I ask the hon. Minister a question, allow me to congratulate the Clerk of the National Assembly for a well deserved ratification and appointment. My question is on the compulsory testing and treatment of the HIV/AIDS. We have evidence that nutrition is a very important component in the treatment of not only HIV/AIDS, but other diseases. What programmes are available to ensure that the nutrition status of the people especially those in the rural parts of the country like Kaputa is enhanced?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member that nutrition is a key social determinant of health. Zambia has adopted a multi-sectoral approach to health. Therefore, talking about the health of the people includes talking about their nutrition. This is the reason we have adopted a multi-sectoral approach and the Ministry of Agriculture and other relevant ministries that are involved in food production are working with us to ensure that the right nutrients are actually found in the foods that we grow. Further, the Ministry of General Education is also looking at a home grown solution for school feeding.
Madam Speaker, all these programmes, including those under social protection in the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare are all meant to ensure that nutrition, which is one key determinant of health, is addressed. By addressing nutrition, we are actually averting 70 per cent of health problems. Therefore, we are an interested party and the Government has adopted an all sector integrated approach to development and health and all of us are pulling towards addressing determinants of health including nutrition.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Ms Subulwa (Sioma): Madam Speaker, the routine HIV testing is a welcome idea. However, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if his ministry has the capacity to give Post Exposure Prophylaxis (PEP) or Pre-Exposure Prophylaxis (PrEP) as a preventive measure to an ordinary citizen exposed to the virus other than the current situation where they are giving it to discordant couples or those who are raped?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, we have the capacity to provide both PEP and PrEP. We are not only giving prophylaxis to discordant couples. We are actually giving PrEP and PEP to high risk groups. The National AIDS Strategic Framework 2017-2021, is cultured in such a manner as to leave no-one behind. Everyone classified as high risk is actually given prophylaxis and we have adequate drugs and human resource to handle that.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mrs Jere (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, looking at the user friendliness and simplicity of the self-test kits …
Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, I raise on a serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Health in order to give 200 HIV self-test kits to hon. Members before counselling them? We are aware that some may commit suicide after knowing the results.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukosa: I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The serious ruling is that the hon. Minister will address that matter as he responds to the question by the hon. Member for Lumezi.
Mrs Jere: Madam Speaker, looking at the user friendliness of the self-test kits and their simplicity, I would like to know the mechanisms the ministry has put in place to ensure that they are available to all the people especially those in rural areas such as Chief Kazembe, Chitungulu, Mwanya, Zumwanda, Chikomena, Mwansepango and in the nation at large?
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, the Government is working with co-operating partners to ensure that the supply chain of HIV services is addressed and strengthened. In view of the pronouncement, we all know that HIV testing is now universal and routine. There may be an increase in the number of people who are found to be positive and, therefore, will be required to be on treatment and we have already started seeing that. We are addressing the supply chain of both laboratory or facility based kits and the self-test kits. So far, Society for Family Health (SFH) has distributed 200,000 self-test kits and they plan to distribute 600,000 within the next two years. Other partners are on board with their own numbers and the Government also plans to buy even more. The Government working with co-operating partners is actually looking at the supply chain and we do not expect to have a challenge with the supply chain side of things. The people in the rural areas will equally access facility based kits and also self-test kits.
Madam Speaker, concerning counselling …
Madam First Deputy Speaker: In particular counselling the hon. Members who now have access to the 200 self-test kits.
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, in the past, we had a policy of Voluntary Counselling and Testing (VCT), but now it has shifted to HIV testing, counselling and treatment. Therefore, counselling is there in the equation, but we will first need to test. I would like to assure the hon. Member that even if she goes to a private or public clinic, we will test her, tizapima. However, if one uses a self-test kit and is found negative, we will advise him to maintain his status by following certain rules. If positive, we will have to do a confirmatory test and he will be on therapy.
Madam, in the past, we would allow fate to be in charge. Some people would refuse to be counselled and tested and then would have Tuberculosis (TB), recurrent malaria, herpes zoster and cryptococcal meningitis, and they died within two to three years. These were breadwinners, celebrities and poverty austere and we have realised that actually the best is to demystify the disease so that testing becomes routine. That way, we will save lives. We need to remove the fear to test from the citizens and law makers. Therefore, the entry point is not counselling. It is testing and it shall be routine and universal. This is the only way we are going to have hope for an HIV free generation. Treatment is not only going to improve the quality of life, but it is also going to protect the next person from getting infected.
Madam Speaker, I plead that I be ruled in order because I am just in line with the new policy which is universal and routine to provide opportunities to test, counsel and treat. So, I am available to counsel all the hon. Members of Parliament after they have tested and they come to me with their results.
I thank you, Madam.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you have just distributed 200 kits. Some of the hon. Members of Parliament have been brave enough to do the test. The point of order was basically seeking guidance as to what some of the hon. Members who may have tested positive, should do. What must those hon. Members who may have tested positive do now? There was mention of suicide, but of course, that was probably said in a gist. Could you indicate what the hon. Members who may have tested positive should do.
Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, I apologise for not getting the point of order clearly. I want to reiterate that when one tests positive here, at home, in the office or anywhere, the rule is that they should get to a health facility, which will do a confirmation of the test using the other tests that we have in the laboratories, including the facility we have here at the National Assembly. We will do the confirmatory test and once that is done, treatment will immediately be given. However, before treatment is given, there will be counselling on adherence, the importance of getting viral load suppression and many other aspects. There will also be an opportunity to answer any questions from that hon. Member of Parliament who may have tested positive. We have not removed counselling from the equation and we want to assure those that test positive using the self-test kit that we will confirm, engage and commence treatment immediately. Therefore, those who test positive, treatment is available today, right here in this facility, and in the UTH facility. People are free to choose which facility to go to. Those who may not be comfortable with this facility can always go to another facility. We have one common data base where the details required for follow-up will be entered.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
_______
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
RESTRICTION OF NON-ZAMBIANS FROM ENGAGING IN SOME BUSINESS VENTURES
52. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:
(a) whether the Government had restricted non-Zambians from engaging in some business ventures to promote youth participation;
(b) if so, what those business ventures were;
(c) how effective the restrictions had been from inception to date; and
(d) what benefits had so far accrued to the youth.
The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mrs Mwanakatwe): Madam Speaker, the Government has reserved certain activities as sub-sectors for targeted citizens, citizens empowered companies, citizen influenced companies and citizens owned companies. This was done through Statutory Instrument No. 1 of 2017, which is aimed at promoting the participation of citizens including the youth in these economic activities.
Madam Speaker, the Statutory Instrument reserves some activities in the poultry and domestic haulage sub-sectors to these targeted citizens and companies. In the poultry sub-sector, the selling of live birds in a market or any other place designated under a written law has been reserved for targeted citizens, citizens empowered companies, citizen influenced companies and citizen owned companies. In domestic haulage, haulage for all public procurement works has been reserved for targeted citizens, citizens empowered companies, citizen influenced companies and citizen owned companies. Recently, Cabinet approved that in the petroleum sector, we begin, as of January, the empowerment of citizens owned, citizen influenced and citizens empowered companies in the transportation of petroleum or fuel from Dar-es-Salaam and Beira. 50 per cent of 750,000 metric tonnes per annum will go to these companies. Further, in the same sector, 20 per cent of the requirement for the country, meaning 20 per cent of 750,000 cubic tonnes, will go to citizens.
Madam Speaker, the Government is still undertaking stakeholder consultative meetings both at national and provincial levels, to recommend modalities on the implementation of the Statutory Instrument. The effectiveness of these reservation schemes is, therefore, yet to be assessed. The Government has not yet assessed the benefits accruing to the Zambians as it is focusing on modalities of implementing the Statutory Instruments through stakeholder consultations.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
ELECTRIFICATION OF INSTITUTIONS IN KANCHIBIYA CONSTITUENCY
53. Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) on behalf of Dr Malama (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Energy when the electrification of the following institutions in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency would commence:
(a) Kopa Rural Health Centre;
(b) Chikakala Rural Health Centre;
(c) Kopa Primary School;
(d) Chikakala Secondary School; and
(e) Communities which were close to the electricity power lines.
The Minister of Energy (Mr Mabumba): Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that my hon. Colleague is not here, although he has delegated another hon. Member to ask the question on his behalf, and maybe for obvious reasons because him and I toured his constituency. However, I want to say that Kopa Rural Health Centre, Chikakala Rural Health Centre, Kopa Primary School, and Chikakala Secondary School are being connected to the electricity supply by ZESCO Limited.
Madam Speaker, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) is currently on the ground conducting a feasibility study to establish the scope and cost of electrifying communities in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency. Of course, the electrification of these communities will depend on the availability of funds.
I just want to take this opportunity to encourage my colleagues, the hon. Minister of General Education and the hon. Minister of Health, whom I engaged yesterday, that as we enter 2018, we should work together. We need to provide the backbone infrastructure with regard to distribution lines. I will be very happy when my colleagues wire schools and rural health centres. This way, by the time that the distribution lines are reaching the locations, REA or the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) will be able to tap power into them.
I further wish to encourage my fellow Members of Parliament that where the ministry is not able, they can use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and the equalisation fund to buy transformers and a few other items. Personally, I have done it in my constituency and a number of villages have been electrified.
Therefore, come 2018, I will work collaboratively with my colleagues in the Ministries of Health and General Education. Adequate information regarding locations to be electrified next year will be provided. This is why we are organising the workshop that I talked about yesterday.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
_______
MOTION
BUDGET 2018
(Debate resumed)
Dr Chibanda (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, before business was adjourned yesterday, I was saying that as Member of Parliament of a constituency on the Copperbelt, I took keen interest on the mining aspect of the Budget.
Madam Speaker, I fully support the Government stance on continuity in the mining sector. The President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, recently announced that the mining sector will be undergoing reforms. This arose from the serious impasse between the Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) and Mopani Copper Mines.
Madam Speaker, the people of Mufulira Central are aware that they are not getting a fair share from the taxation of the mines. The Government of Sierra-Leone, a country that was besieged by serious fighting owing to the diamonds, enacted laws that covered taxation from mines. Most of the taxes were retained for the development of that country.
As Mufulira Central Constituency, we are appealing to the hon. Minister responsible that once these reforms, he should consider us as we are ready to contribute. We want the Government to tax the mines and re-invest for development in the mining towns.
Madam Speaker, the mineral royalties that come from the mines are a mockery to the people of Mufulira. In comparison to what the Copperbelt Province was in the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) days, it is a sorry sight. The so-called ‘corporate world’ that has bought off the mines is not ploughing back into these areas and, as people of Mufulira Central, we are lamenting.
Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance said that the Government is trying to encourage small-scale miners to venture into other precious stones mining, apart from copper. As Mufulira Central, we feel that the Government should have taken a step further to fund these miners, particularly Zambians, so that they can exploit this venture or avenue.
Madam Speaker, I would like to move onto energy. We welcome the Government’s intention to bring the Energy Regulation Bill to Parliament. This Bill will bring sanity in the energy sector. The Government must, however, go a step further and broaden the Bill to cover those culprits that are vandalising installations in the energy sector. Many times, these culprits or savages have gotten away without being punished.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Member for Mufulira Central, withdraw the word ‘savages’.
Dr Chibanda: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word.
The perpetrators of these barbaric acts are supposed to be put away for a long time. The Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) spends colossal sums of money to make sure that energy is provided. When people decide, therefore, to vandalise such installations with impunity, we feel that the law must come down strongly on such culprits.
Madam Speaker, the issue of a cost-reflective tariff in the energy sector is so serious that it almost brought Copperbelt to a stand-still because of the impasse between CEC and Mopani Copper Mines. It is only prudent and fair that as ordinary citizens, we pay cost-reflective tariffs. However, we encourage the Government get big companies that have been having their own way, to do the same. This is the only way that the energy sector can attract massive investment.
Madam Speaker, we are aware that the mining companies have been dragging their feet to meet the cost reflective tariffs. We, therefore, suggest that such institutions go into the investment of energy themselves for them to be self-sustaining. They are draining power from the national electricity grid and yet, they are not able or not ready to meet the cost reflective tariffs. Therefore, the people of Mufulira welcome the brave decision by the Government. We should commend President Edgar Chagwa Lungu and his Government for having taken bold decisions to remove subsidies for the energy sector.
Madam Speaker, coming to roads, I will be failing in my duty as an hon. Member of Parliament from the Copperbelt Province, if I do not commend the Government for having given us the Copperbelt 400 Road Project (C400). This project will cover 20 km of Mufulira’s township road. At the same time, we are beneficiaries of the recently launched Mukambo/Mufulira/Ndola Road Project. The launch was graced by His Excellency, the President of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. The C400 brings a lot of excitement to the people of the Copperbelt Province because in a long time the township roads have not been done. We cannot wait to see the roads being worked on.
Madam Speaker, I wish the hon. Minister of Finance was around as I am debating because I have serious concerns on the road tolling issue.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: There is an acting hon. Minister of Finance; the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.
Mr Chibanda: Much obliged, Madam Speaker. The road tolling programme must be commended by all well meaning Zambians because we have seen that in a short time of eight months in 2017, K490 million has been brought to the Treasury from tollgate fees. However, the people of Mufulira are concerned because when you look at the traffic for trucks that come in and out of Mufulira on one particular day, there may be over 150 trucks. They either come in to lift processed copper or bring in mineral concentrates.
Madam Speaker, the Government wants to build a marvelous tollgate model in Mufulira like the one which has been done in Katuba. We do appreciate the beauty of the toll plaza that is in Katuba. However, we feel that the original concept of the tollgates in this country was started under a makeshift arrangement like the ones we have seen in Manyumbi and Kafulafuta. We, therefore, felt that the hon. Minister of Finance, working with the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development, would have moved a bit faster to set up makeshift tollgates on the Copperbelt. If this had been done, we would have been talking about a different figure by now. Waiting until we do those great structures would be a drain and delay on what is supposed to be collected as the toll fees.
Madam Speaker, it is with this in mind that I ask the hon. Minister of Finance to engage his colleagues, like the hon. Minister of Transport and Communication, to address this situation. As Zambian transporters, we pay colossal amounts of money in form of toll fees when we go into a country like the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and yet, we all subscribe to the same region body, the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA). We all subscribe to the same notion of integration based on neighbourliness. A Zambian truck that goes into the DRC would spend maybe US$1,700 on toll fees alone and yet, when the Congolese trucks come out of DRC into Zambia, they do not even pay a token of half of that US$1,700. We, therefore, feel that as the COMESA region, we should have an even playing field in terms of the toll fees that we pay.
Madam Speaker, I realise that the hon. Minister of Finance has apportioned a good sum of money to the Ministry of Health, which is commendable. It represents 9.5 per cent of the 2018 National Budget, amounting to K6.8 billion. This is indeed the way it is supposed to be. I realise that this money will go towards infrastructure, recruitment of staff and procurement of drugs. I wish to ask my brother, the hon. Minister of Health, to expedite the completion of the Mufulira District Hospital in Mufulira, which has stalled for a long time.
Madam Speaker, on education, the hon. Minister has done very well to allocate such a big chunk of the Budget for the sector. It is with this in mind that we hope that the hon. Minister of General Education would consider building a secondary school in Mufulira because there are still children traversing over 10 km to reach the nearby secondary schools, which are not even in Mufulira. Having said that, I wish to state that the people of Mufulira, support the 2018 Budget in totality.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to debate the 2018 Budget Address. I would like to ask your permission to spend a few minutes on the Presidential Speech because I did not have the opportunity debate it. If allowed, I want to start by quoting a very important saying from …
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Member for Senga Hill, I know that you have the ability and experience to find a way of marrying …
Mr C. M. Zulu: Sneaking in!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Not sneaking in, hon. Member for Luangeni.
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can find a way of ensuring that the issues in the Presidential Speech are discussed by yourself within the Budget Motion. I know that you are capable of doing that. In short, I am not allowing you to debate the Presidential Speech. What I am allowing you to debate the Budget Motion, but using your experience and ability. I know hon. Member you understand what I mean.
Mr Simbao: I thank you for your guidance, Madam Speaker. I want to draw the attention of the hon. Minister of Finance to page 29 of his speech, where there is a table for the 2018 Budget. First of all, I noticed some irregularities and I would like the hon. Minister to take note of that. I noted that in the column labeled ‘Share of Budget’, the percentages do not add up to 100 per cent. It is coming to 99.9 per cent and the 0.1 per cent that I cannot see is a lot of money. It is about K71 million. Further, under the sub-heading for Housing and Community Amenities, you find that when you add the allocations for the activities, the sum is more than the total allocation. The activities are coming to K821 million, but the total allocation is only K816 million. Therefore, somewhere there is something that was not properly put together.
Having said so let me say that this is a very small Budget in the sense that the increment is only 9.8 per cent on last year’s Budget. Therefore, the items that we, as hon. Members of Parliament or the country in general will be fighting to have, will come from only K71.6 billion, and that is a very small amount of money. Thirty per cent of the Budget has been allocated to emoluments and 22 per cent has been allocated for repayments. Programmes and activities have been allocated about 48 per cent. The programmes in the Budget have only got a 3.1 per cent increase, about K1 billion. The activities that we talk about here, such as roads or schools in the constituencies will not be easy to work on because the money allocated for such is very, very minimal. Most of the money has gone to consumption, which makes up about 52 per cent of the Budget.
Madam Speaker, I want to make a parallel here and draw the hon. Minister to the table in the Budget Speech, once again. Road infrastructure has been given K8,660,314,680. However, the Ministry of Defence has been given K3,498,217,240. You see that the allocation to road infrastructure is about double the allocation to the Ministry of Defence. What I am trying to say is that in other countries, Egypt in particular, the Ministry of Defence is the one that constructs roads, so that the money that the country has, does not go out of the country.
If you read the book Capitalist Nigger, you will find that the gentlemen who wrote it explained that the reason Asians are rich is because once K1 enters their system it will go round at least ten times before it leaves. That is unlike the way we are doing projects here. The whole amount of K8,660,314,680 for roads infrastructure will go out. It is all going to be paid to the Chinese and will leave the country. We get the money, but we do not even use it, before it leaves the country. We are not doing ourselves any good because we are not allowing the money to circulate so that it can generate revenue before it goes out of the country.
I suggest that we look at Egypt as an example, to see how they have managed to improve their engineering section of the defence forces to make road infrastructure. We can also encourage the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) to get into the local air transport sector because they run a very good air service compared to the civil airlines, so that instead of all these people running airlines and taking away money out of Zambia, it can stay in the country. I know that the people running the airlines in Zambia are not Zambians, and they are taking their money to South Africa or elsewhere. We should have the little money we are earning should circulate within the country and make some more money before it leaves. I suggest that we look at such ways of using the money. That can come about if we have dedication to see Zambia grow.
Madam Speaker, I have also noticed that the 30 per cent allocated to emoluments in the Budget is a lot of money. A way must be found to reduce this percentage. Other countries, for instance, the United States (US), has 17 per cent allocated to emoluments, and countries in Europe allocate about 11 per cent to emoluments. They have tried hard to manage the public wage bill so that most of the money can find its way into projects or activities that will bring revenue to the country.
I have also noted that 22 per cent has been put for repayment of loans and other things. This is taking away a lot of money from this country. In fact, if you compare the amount allocated to this activity for 2017 and 2018, you will find that this activity has the lion’s share of the increment in the Budget. It has been given a K4.6 billion increment. This is a lot of money. Yet, as far as I know, we are not yet paying the Eurobond principal and all that relates to interest on our loans. When those loans become due, it could be worse. I believe that a way to improve revenue collection is required.
To this effect, I agree with the hon. Minister of Finance’s decision to increase the cost of cement and road toll fees. I think as a country, we must support him because having increased the Budget by 9.8 per cent, he has very little room to do anything tangible. When I looked at this K71.6 billion Budget, I found that very little can be done with it because it is just about US$7 million. With this kind of money, we cannot do much.
Madam Speaker, I bemoan the fact that we are a nation of traders. Most of the people who are shining amongst us in this country are just traders. There are very few people who have taken up manufacturing. We are very, very blessed for having minerals that are really wanted by the world. Copper is one mineral that every country has to use. There are some minerals that we probably cannot use. For instance, in Zambia, we really do not have any need for a metal like silver, but copper is one mineral that is used by every country because we all have to rectify certain things in our homes, distribute power and the like. We have copper, but like everyone knows, we do nothing to it. We just take it out of the ground and maybe make cathodes, anodes and ingots from it, and that is the end. We do not do anything to it. Somehow, we are buying into the argument that that is the biggest value addition to copper. It is not true. Countries where the copper ends up are the ones who actually make money. When you make cathodes out of copper, you just melt it. You probably only add 5 per cent value to it. You add more value to it when you convert it into cables or electronics. Unfortunately, we are not doing much to add value to copper, as a country, and we cannot blame anyone, but ourselves on this issue.
Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, Zambia has the tenth non-reserves of copper in the world. This makes us quite a big producer of copper and we are the eleventh in the world as a copper producing country. Despite producing all this copper, we just send it out without adding value to it. In turn, it comes back to us in form of vehicles, high fidelity stereos (Hi-fis), fridges, stoves and other appliances and yet, these are products we can make as a country, especially at fifty years old. We can do this and the market for these products is quite big.
We hear that Swaziland is making air conditioners. These appliances use a lot of copper in terms of tubing. However, that tubing is probably coming from Europe and yet we can make them here in Zambia.
Madam Speaker, on the issue of fruits, you may be aware that we have some very exotic fruits like masuku. I was surprised when I visited Botswana and found that they have no masuku. However, when the people from Botswana came here and tasted this fruit, they were so surprised that it is such a good fruit. When it is time for masuku in Zambia, most of it just goes waste. No one knows what to do with it.
There is also another fruit called inyanya. I do not know what it is called elsewhere, but in my language it is called inyanya. I was surprised to find it in Denmark and the United Kingdom (UK). I told the people there that I do not know where this fruit comes from, but I am aware that it grows in my country. Here we are …
Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is it called in English?
Mr Simbao: I do not know, Madam. These are local fruits. I know it sounds something funny but …
Madam First Deputy Speaker: You said you found it in Denmark, what did they call it?
Mr Bwalya: Inyanya!
Mr Simbao: It is inyanya. My brother here is agreeing with me. He knows it. They are very nice. I found them in Denmark …
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Were they called inyanya in Denmark?
Mr Simbao: No, I do not know. I just saw them and knew them, so I bought some. They were the ones.
Mr Bwalya: Imfungo!
Interruptions
Hon. Members: Lufungo!
Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, the point I am making is that we have some very good fruits that we can market and make money for the country. However, since we are a nation of traders, who do not know how to add value to things, we are letting these fruits go to waste.
Madam, the Philippines live so much on raw mangoes. That is what they like. It is everywhere in the streets, but one can never find a Zambian mango there. They import their mangoes because they do not grow much of it. However, here in this country, everyone knows, mangoes just go to waste.
Madam Speaker, I now wish to talk about another issue. The problem that I see in this country is that we have not paid much attention to education. We have allowed ourselves to be a country of not very educated citizens. I do not know of any country that has developed without putting education first. Hon. Members can read the book Third World to First World from Singapore. They will see that the first thing they organised was education. They can also read Startup Nation from Israel; they will notice that the first thing they organised was education. If they read books on South Korea, they will see that the first thing they organised was education.
However, in this country, it is very sad to note that we are not paying so much attention to education. We have observed that most of the people that we have, especially the young kids on the streets are least educated. I think we have done very well on the lower levels up to grades seven or twelve. However, beyond that, we are not doing much. When young people leave Grade 12, most of them do not proceed to colleges.
Nowadays, the passing mark that one needs to enter into university is very high. Pupils have done very well are not able to enter into university. Hence we have a very big group of these people on the streets.
Madam, if we gave enough money to education, and supported organisations like Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) by properly allocating it enough funds, we can bring back the training of skills that we are lacking at the moment. This is because the trade schools are not doing as well as they used to do in the past.
Madam Speaker, in the past, having a trade was very important. These are the people who did most of the works in the mines and other companies, but we do not have this cadre anymore. From Grade 12, you go straight into university. We are going to miss a lot of these people in between.
Madam Speaker, this is a time bomb for the country because we are losing this cadre of skilled workers. Even if we tried hard to revive the industry, we would find it very difficult to fill it up because this cadre of workers is not there anymore. I appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance to put a lot of effort in trying to revive the education system in the country. We must put education first. Although education was allocated 16 per cent, which is the second largest allocation in the Budget, it comes to nothing. Infrastructure under education has been allocated K740 million, but it is very little. The amount can only build about twenty-three modern schools and that is nothing. This country is already building about 300 such schools at the moment.
Madam Speaker, I appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance to improve the allocation to the education sector. For example, there is a school in my constituency called Menje Boarding High School which has been under construction for the last eight years and it is nowhere near completion because allocations towards education have been quite poor.
Madam Speaker, wealth follows education. We can see that most developed countries have a base rock of education. People talk about Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, but these people were educated. They are not as bad as people claim. They pulled out of school when they had something tangible to do, but they were educated. Bill Gates reads about 100 books a year. The second richest man also spends 80 per cent of his free time reading. We need education if we are to develop.
Madam Speaker, I have run out of time and cannot say all that I wanted to say.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chali (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice to the Budget speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance.
Madam Speaker, last year when I stood to debate the Budget, I said the hon. Minister’s shoes were too large for me to fit in. The reason is that he is coming up with a Budget while there is a lot of demand from the community ...
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Did you say that the shoes were too large for you?
Mr Chali: Yes.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: You want to fit into his shoes?
Mr Chali: I am explaining what I mean.
Laughter
Mr Chali: What I mean is that we have a Budget presented to an expectant community where 54 per cent are living below the poverty datum line. If you look at expenditure versus revenue, you see that the hon. Minister has struggled to see where he can get funds to finance the Budget. I am saying that his shoes are very difficult to fit in because it is a mammoth task looking at the demand.
Madam Speaker, having said that, the theme for next year’s Budget is “accelerating fiscal fitness for sustained inclusive growth without leaving anyone behind.” I would like to underline ‘inclusive growth’ and ‘not leaving anyone behind’.
Madam Speaker, let me talk about mining. Nchanga Constituency is where Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) is domiciled and the expectations of the people in that area have been very high. Unfortunately, Nchanga Copper Mines’ life span is gone. That is where the issue of diversification plays a very big role. Two years ago, His Excellency, the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, gave land to the ex-miners free of charge. Some of the miners have even started farming. The majority of them have not because the land has not yet been demarcated for them to take over.
Madam Speaker, I think this situation is letting our President down. If we find out why that land is not demarcated up to now, the response will be that there has been insufficient funding for the Surveyor-General to put the surveyors on the ground. Surely, that process cannot take us two years. I would, therefore, urge the Ministry of Finance to make sure that funding to these surveyors is given.
Madam Speaker, secondly, from the report of the same Budget Speech, the Minister of Finance said that the National Land Titling Pilot Programme was started last year. The piloting was being done here in Lusaka and it has been rated as a success. As we implement the title of that land, I would request through the honourable office of the Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, to ensure that the people of Nchanga are also considered. Some of the miners who bought houses from the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) in 1997, up to now do not have title deeds. There are various reasons for this. That is another area where we have lagged behind with regard to the diversification process.
Madam Speaker, the Minister of Finance has also talked about the mapping of Northern Province for non-traditional minerals such as limestone. This is another way of confirming the diversification. 60 per cent of the mapping has been completed. We are remaining with 40 per cent. When we start allocating artisanal licenses for the people to start mining, I would urge the powers that be in terms of allocations of the artisanal licenses to ensure that Zambians are empowered through funding. What is happening is that there are a lot of Zambians down the line who have been holding on to mining licences for a long time, but they have no funds to enable them start mining. As we complete the mapping, we should ensure that Zambians are empowered first before we given these artisanal licenses to the foreigners.
Madam Speaker, I come from Chingola and I …
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!
(Debate adjourned)
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The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 10th October, 2017.