Wednesday, 20^th September, 2017

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_________

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

 

STANDING COMMITTEES − MEMBERSHIP

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, in light of the adoption and operationalisation of the revised Standing Orders, it is now expedient to constitute the Standing Committees in compliance with the relevant provisions. Pursuant to this, the Standing Orders Committee, at its meeting held today, Wednesday, 20^th September, 2017, resolved to reconstitute the Committees of the House in line with the provisions of Article 80 of the Constitution and the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2016. In terms of Standing Order No. 2, which relates to definitions, the composition of the Committees I will announce today and tomorrow will remain in force for the whole duration of this Assembly. However, Standing Order No. 131(11) empowers the Standing Orders Committee to make appropriate adjustments to the Standing Committees whenever the need arises.

 

The composition is as follows:

 

HOUSE-KEEPING COMMITTEES

 

Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services (10)

 

Hon. C. Namugala, MP, First Deputy Speaker (Chairperson)

The Hon. G. Lubinda, MP, Minister of Justice

The Hon. R. Musukwa, MP, Chief Whip

The Hon. J. J. Mwiimbu, MP, Leader of the Opposition

Mr G. Nkombo, MP

Mr M. M. Kabanda, MP

Ms E. Phiri, MP

Mrs G. Katuta, MP

Brig-Gen. S. M. Sitwala, MP

Mr G. K. Mwamba, MP

 

Committee on Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation (10)

 

The Hon. M. Malama, MP, Second Deputy Speaker (Chairperson)

The Hon. F. Mutati, MP, Minister of Finance

The Hon. G. Lubinda, MP, Minister of Justice

The Hon. V. Mwale, MP, Minister of Local Government

The Hon. S. Chungu, MP, Deputy Chief Whip

Mr H. S. Chansa, MP

Mrs R. C. Fundanga, MP

Mr V. Lumayi, MP

Mr J. Chabi, MP

Mr C. D. Miyanda, MP

 

Committee on House Business (10)

 

The Hon. Dr P. Matibini, SC., MP, Speaker (Chairperson)

The Hon. I. M. Wina, MP, Leader of Government Business in the House

The Hon. C. Namugala, MP, First Deputy Speaker (Vice Chairperson)

The Hon. M. Malama, MP, Second Deputy Speaker

The Hon. R. Musukwa, MP, Chief Whip

The Hon. J. Mwiimbu, MP, Leader of the Opposition

Prof. G. Lungwangwa, MP

Mr M.J. B. Ng’onga, MP

Mrs C. M. Mazoka, MP

Mr B. Hamusonde, MP

 

PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE

 

Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs (10)

 

Dr M. Malama, MP

Mr E. J. Muchima, MP

Brig-Gen. S. M. Sitwala, MP

Mr K. Mbangweta, MP

Mr L. Nyirenda, MP

Ms M. Miti, MP

Mr F. Ng’ambi, MP

Mr A. B. Malama, MP

Mr E. K. Belemu, MP

Ms A. M. Chisangano, MP

 

GENERAL PURPOSES COMMITTEE

 

Committee on the Budget (10)

 

Mr M. Simfukwe, MP

Mr L. A. Lufuma, MP

Mr S. K. Kakubo, MP

Ms N. M. Subulwa, MP

Mr P. Phiri, MP

Mr F. C. Chaatila, MP

Mr D. Mumba, MP

Mr M. L. Kafwaya, MP

Mr J. Siwale, MP

Mrs S. Mulyata, MP

 

PORTFOLIO COMMITTEES

 

Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources (10)

 

Mr M. J. B. Ng’onga, MP

Mr B. Hamusonde, MP

Mrs C. M. Mazoka, MP

Mr P. C. Mecha, MP

Mr S. K. Michelo, MP

Mr N. Mwene, MP

Mr E. Mulenga, MP

Dr M. Imakando, MP

Mrs R. C. Fundanga, MP

Mr D. Mung’andu, MP

 

Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters (10)

 

Dr S. Musokotwane, MP

Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP

Ms M. Miti, MP

Mr E. M. Mwila, MP

Mr D. Livune, MP

Mr C. Chali, MP

Mr D. Chisopa, MP

Mr S. C. Kopulande, MP

Mr E. Kamondo, MP

Mr M. Mubika, MP

 

Committee on Education, Science and Technology (10)

 

Ms P. C. Mwashingwele, MP

Prof. G. Lungwangwa, MP

Mr G. K. Mwamba, MP

Mr G. M. Imbuwa, MP

Mr H. K. S. Kamboni, MP

Mr S. Tembo, MP-1

Mr E. Machila, MP

Mr K. Sampa, MP

Mr H. S. Chansa, MP

Mr P. C. Mecha, MP

 

Committee on Energy, Water Development and Tourism (10)

 

Mr E. K. Belemu, MP

Mr D. Mung’andu, MP

Mr F. S. Kufakwandi, MP

Mr C. M. Zulu, MP

Mr M. Jamba, MP

Mr S. Mulusa, MP

Mr J. Malanji, MP

Mrs M. C. Chonya, MP

Mr J. Chabi, MP

Mr K. Mbangweta, MP

 

Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services (10)

 

Dr J. K. Chanda, MP

Dr C. K. Kalila, MP

Dr C. Kambwili, MP

Mr J. Kabamba, MP

Ms A. M. Chisangano, MP

Mr L. Kintu, MP

Mr L. N. Tembo, MP

Ms P. Kasune, MP

Mr M. Ndalamei, MP

Mr A. Mandumbwa, MP

 

Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights, National Guidance, Gender Matters and Governance (10)

 

Mr C. L. Bwalya, MP

Mr K. A. Mukata, MP

Mr M. Jere, MP

Ms E. Phiri, MP

Mr C. Nanjuwa, MP

Mrs G. P. M. Jere, MP

Mr T. S. Ngulube, MP

Evg. H. Shabula, MP

Mr E. Sing’ombe, MP

Mr R. Bulaya, MP

 

The compositions of other Committees will be announced tomorrow.

 

After I have completed announcing the composition of all the committees, if any hon. Member finds that he or she does not belong to any Committee, he or she should notify the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly.

 

Thank you

 

___________

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

YOUTH STREET VENDORS EMPOWERMENT SCHEME

 

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development (Mr Mawere): Mr Speaker, I thank you for granting me this opportunity to issue a statement on one of the youth empowerment programmes that my ministry is implementing. The programme is called the Youth Street Vendors Empowerment Scheme.

 

Sir, you will recall that on 12^th August, 2015, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa, launched the first ever Action Plan for Youth Empowerment. The plan is meant to address youth unemployment and under-employment in the short, medium and long term using a multi-sectoral approach. The programme is in line with the Vision 2030 and the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP), which advocates for accelerated development without leaving anyone behind. This scheme, in particular, responds to three pillars of the Seventh National Development Plan, namely:

 

Pillar 1 – Economic Diversification and Job Creation;

Pillar 2 – Poverty and Vulnerability Reduction; and

Pillar 3 – Reducing Developmental Inequalities.

 

Mr Speaker, following the launch of the plan, my ministry, in consultation with some stakeholders, identified ‘quick-win’ projects with high impact on youth employment creation. Among the ‘quick-win’ projects identified was the Youth Street Vendors Empowerment Scheme, which was officially launched in June, 2016, by Her Honour the Vice-President of the Republic of Zambia, Mrs Inonge Mutukwa Wina.

 

Sir, the scheme is aimed at increasing access to affordable finance by youth street vendors in order to empower them to grow their businesses to higher levels, improve their livelihoods and leave the streets to engage in more organised models of trading, such as running shops. The principle, therefore, is that if a youth gets a loan and successfully repays it, he or she will be eligible to borrow the same amount or more.

 

Mr Speaker, the implementation of the scheme is guided by a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) signed among three stakeholders, namely the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development; the Zambia Postal Services Corporation and the United Street Vendors Foundation Co-operative Society Limited. Under the MoU, the ministry is responsible for resource mobilisation and overall co-ordination of the scheme while ZAMPOST is responsible for loan management. The United Street Vendors Foundation Co-operative Society Limited is responsible for mobilisation of the beneficiary street vendors, and for monitoring and ensuring that the loans are paid back.

 

Mr Speaker, for one to qualify to access the scheme, one must meet the flowing criteria:

 

(a) be between 18 and 35 years of age;

 

(b) be engaged in a business;

 

(c) be a member of the United Street Vendors Foundation Co-operative Society;

 

(d) be recommended by a person in good standing in society like a civic leader, such as a Council Chairperson, Town Clerk or Mayor; a religious or traditional leader; or a District Commissioner (DC); and

 

(e) undergo orientation in basic entrepreneurship, financial literacy, marketing and customer service facilitated by Future Search and ZAMPOST.

 

Sir, the scheme was piloted in 2016 in Lusaka, Central and the Copperbelt provinces. During the pilot phase, K5 million was disbursed to 2,225 youth. The phase was a success and loan recoveries have been positive so far.

 

Mr Speaker, given the positive feedback we are receiving, I am glad to report that the ministry has mobilised an additional K4 million to roll out the scheme to other provinces. For the Copperbelt Province, we shall also reach out to the youth street vendors in Chingola and Chililabombwe, two districts with relatively high numbers of youth street vendors who did not benefit from the first disbursements.

 

Sir, in distributing the K4 million to the other provinces, we use population distribution as a determining variable. Therefore, provinces with larger populations will get larger amounts. The maximum loan amount, for now, is K1,500. Therefore, we expect the K4 million available to empower 2,667 youth street vendors.

 

Mr Speaker, the distribution of the K4 million, by province, is as follows:

 

Province             Youth Population              Amount                        Estimated No. of Beneficiaries

 

Copperbelt                     75,000                   115,000                                         77

(Chingola and                                                                                 

Chililabombwe) 

 

Eastern                          527,579                   805,000                                        537

 

Luapula                         320,149                   490,000                                        327

 

Muchinga                      331,448                   350,000                                        233

 

Northern                       355,868                   540,000                                        360

 

North-Western              262,107                   400,000                                        267

 

Southern                       556,276                   850,000                                        566

 

Western                        297,401                   450,000                                        300

 

Total                            2,625,828                4,000,000                                   2,667

 

Mr Speaker, the loan is expected to be paid back in four months at 14 per cent per interest per month. Therefore, total repayment sum is K1,544, broken into four monthly deposits of K386 per month. The K44 is the interest.

 

Sir, I will soon launch the rolling out of the scheme to all provinces at an event in Ndola at which we shall also lend more money to youth who have fully repaid their loans from the pilot phase.

 

Sir, I earnestly appeal to all hon. Members of Parliament to encourage the youths who have benefitted from the schemes to pay back the loans because it is upon the repayment of loans that they can get more money to grow their businesses and provide an opportunity for other young people to benefit from the funds.

 

Mr Speaker, I appeal to the hon. Members of this august House to take keen interest in the scheme. It is unfortunate that some youths were misinformed that they did not need to pay back the loans because they were from the Government. The youths should not hinder this very good programme, which is meant to enable them to grow economically and contribute to the development of this great nation, by not paying back loans.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development.

 

Ms Miti (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the information he has shared with us.

 

Sir, what measures have been put in place to ensure that this information is disseminated to rural areas like Vubwi, ...

 

Mr Ng’onga: Kaputa!

 

Mr Mbulakulima: Milenge!

 

Ms Miti: ... Kaputa and Milenge ...

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Miti: ... to ensure that the youths there are not left out in this programme?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, we have sent our technocrats to all the districts in Zambia to sensitise our young people on this programme. I am the officers are already in Vubwi sensitising the DC, the Council Chairperson and the youths. I have also issued this statement here so that hon. Members can take the information to the youths in their constituencies when they return at the weekend.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr C. M. Zulu (Luangeni): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that he consulted stakeholders in coming up with this scheme, although he did not mention the stakeholders he consulted. Now, he is asking hon. Members of Parliament to go and sensitise the people on this scheme. I believe that hon. Members are major stakeholders in this programme. Why did he not consult them, and whom did he consult?

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, by “stakeholders”, I mean those who have a very big role to play in this programme, namely the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development; the Parliamentary Committee on Youth, Sport and Child Development; ZAMPOST and the United Street Vendors Foundation (USVEF).

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, experience has shown that funds that have been arranged in this way often come with cumbersome procedures, whereby the paper work to apply for K1,500 might cost K5,000 to K6,000. Will this programme follow that route?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, in our quest to decentralise the operations of this Government, we have discouraged our people from the rural areas from sending their applications to Lusaka. We have advisory committees chaired by the DCs in each district. Further, the foundations for street vendors are found in all the markets of this country. We also believe that ZAMPOST’s network covers almost all the districts. So, people do not need to spend a lot of money to apply for the loans. Actually, the people who are registering the applicants are already on the ground to make sure that those who are eligible for this fund get it.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister made reference to …

 

Mr Kalobo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Ngulube: Ema jerabo, aba!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kalobo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order.

 

Sir, being a member of the Committee on Youth, Sport and Child Development, I do not think that the hon. Minister is being factual. Is he in order to mislead this House by saying that he consulted the Committee when he actually did not?

 

I need your serous ruling, Mr Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, as you respond to the question that will be asked by the hon. Member for Lupososhi, please, respond to the assertion that you did not consult the Committee.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister made reference to a street vendors’ co-operative that has been formed. He also said that membership of the co-operative is a requirement for accessing the loans. How was the co-operative formed? Further, how is the membership spread? I ask this question because Lupososhi Constituency is not aware of the existence of the co-operative.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, in response to the point of order, let me inform the House that we consulted the Committee on Youth, Sport and Child Development. Early this year, if I am not mistaken, the Committee, together with my ministry, went on a tour of inspection of the programmes being implemented by the ministry throughout the country. After the tour, the Committee even submitted a report to this House.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, from that report, the ministry was able get some advice from the Committee, which made it possible …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Let us have some order.

 

Continue, hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mawere: …for the ministry to improve the programme.

 

Sir, getting back to the question, USVEF has been in existence for some time now. It was not formed for this programme. Due to that fact, and given that it deals with street vendors and marketeers, we felt that it was in the best position to assist us identify the target beneficiaries and assist in loan recoveries. In the past, it has been very difficult for the ministry, whose structure ends at provincial level, to interact with youths at district levels. So, we thought that partnering with the association would make our work much easy. Moreover, the association has members in markets.

 

Sir, for areas where the co-operative does not have members, youths will soon be able to access membership and benefit from this very important programme.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, I am not satisfied by your response to the point of order.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Did you engage the Committee specifically on this scheme? You have referred to the usual tours that are undertaken by Committees, but the point of order was with specific reference to this scheme.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, that is the information I was given, but I will check with the technocrats.

 

Sir, I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Question!

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, how can you say that you are not sure when the question is directed at you, as hon. Minister? Please, respond.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, I will check and respond later.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, I think that you need to act in a more honourable way.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Did you consult the Committee as hon. Minister?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, I did not personally consult the Committee. I apologise for that.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: I am not sure whether you answered the question asked by the hon. Member for Lupososhi. I did not follow your response properly.

 

Hon. Member for Lupososhi, could you repeat your question?

 

Mr Bwalya repeated his question.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, my response was that the ministry did not form the USVEF. The organisation was already in existence and operated on most of the streets and markets of this country. Therefore, as the ministry was looking for an organisation that would help it reach out to young people faster and recover loans more effectively, it identified that organisation as the best choice. The ministry has no capacity to interact with young people at the grassroots, as its structures end at provincial level.

 

Mr Speaker, as regards the organisation’s existence in Lupososhi, I cannot confirm that because I have not counter-checked my records for that information.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, the programme is good for the empowerment of our youths. However, statistics show that the youths in Chama District have not benefited from such programmes in the past. I hope that, this time around, they will benefit.

 

Mr Speaker, my question is on loan recoveries. Statistics show that our youths, in particular, and Zambians, in general, are very bad at paying back loans. Has the ministry put in place measures to take advantage of the Moveable Assets Collateral Policy that the Government has implemented to ensure that those who benefit from this good initiative provide collateral, such as household goods or cattle, to ensure 100 per cent repayment of the loans?

 

Hon. Members: Question!

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, the youth empowerment programme has been running for some time now, and we redesign it from time to time in response to the feedback we receive from our young people. In most cases, young people indicate that they have no collateral to provide in order to borrow from financial situations. That is why the Government comes up with flexible empowerment programmes to enable such young people to access funding. We run various empowerment programmes, in some of which we give equipment. In this one, we give start-up capital to people on the streets and in markets.

 

Sir, as regards the people of Chama South not benefiting from programmes, I must say that the programme is implemented at district, not constituency, level. However, we hope that with the information that we have given to hon. Members of Parliament, DCs, Council Chairpersons and Mayors, and through sensitisation meetings, our young people, including those in Chama South, will be informed and will apply so that they benefit from the programme. It is our intention to enable everyone to participate and benefit from youth empowerment programmes. The outcry from people in the rural areas is that they do not benefit from programmes because the programmes are centralised. So, we have decentralised this programme and expect hon. Members to embrace it and see to it that the young people in their constituencies access the loans and pay them back. As I indicated earlier, they can borrow as many times as possible as long as they are able to pay back.

 

Sir, in accordance with the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP) and Vision 2030, we want the young people, who are in the majority in Zambia, to drive the economy of this country.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mecha (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, I am aware that there is a huge appetite for accessing loans among the target group, who are the street vendors. Does the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST), which is responsible for managing the loans, have the band width for processing the large number of anticipated applications?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, one of the reasons we partnered with ZAMPOST is its network, which covers almost all the districts in Zambia. Further, we have already successfully piloted the programme under ZAMPOST’s Department of Micro Finance in Lusaka, Central and the Copperbelt provinces. That is what gave us the impetus to roll out the programme to the rest of the country. So, yes, ZAMPOST is equal to the task.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his statement.

 

Mr Lufuma: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I think we have a problem with the public address (PA) system on this side of the House. We, here, on the United Party for National Development (UPND) side are not registering for debate on the system.

 

Mr Chabi: You are not pressing the button to indicate, kaili.

 

Mr Lufuma: We are pressing the button. I was, in fact, registered, but later removed from the queue.

 

What is happening, Mr Speaker?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: It is a technological hitch.

 

I will get the Head of the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Department, Mr Mukuka, to attend to it immediately. I am sure he is following the proceedings.

 

Hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, you may continue.

 

Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, in this country, we have seen good intentions get bad results in empowerment or poverty alleviation programmes. The hon. Minister means well to target the youths. However, does he not think that giving the programme to one union of street vendors will lead to selection bias and difficulties for hon. Members of Parliament in following up, since we do not even know the members of the union in our constituencies?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, this Government has the slogan, “Power to the People”, meaning that we want the people at the grassroots to be responsible for their own welfare. That is why we have partnered with ZAMPOST and USVEF. We do not want to see people from Lusaka go to identify beneficiaries and, then, keep following up on the repayments. We want local people to do the identification and follow-up on loan repayments. That is why the leaders of the association, chairpersons in the markets, DCs and councils are assisting us.

 

Mr Speaker, what we want to see is everyone, including the area hon. Members of Parliament, get on the bandwagon and …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mawere: … assist us in identifying the beneficiaries and following up on repayments.

 

Mr Speaker, some hon. Members have already indicated to me that they are very happy with the programme because they have fully participated in it. I hope that every hon. Member here will do the same and make sure that the young people in their constituencies benefit and develop their respective constituencies.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabompo, just to get your point of order clearly, was it on registration for attendance or to debate?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Debate.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, we tried the best we could, but …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: But I have the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, Senanga, …

 

Mr Sing’ombe: It is only that side (pointing to the seats near the Serjeant-At-Arms’ Desk), not here.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Lufuma: Sir, …

 

Mr Speaker: Anyway, resume your seat, hon. Member for Kabompo.

 

I have clarified the issue with the ICT Department and have been informed that the department will try to increase the number of names that can be queued up on the system at any given point. I think that is where the problem is.

 

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: I do not think that any political grouping …

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: … is being deliberately disadvantaged.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: I also know many other people pressing the microphones to speak at the same time as you do. So, try to be as quick as possible.

 

Mr Chabi: Hear, hear!

 

The system is non-partisan.

 

Mr Speaker: Maybe, that might be the solution to your challenge.

 

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

 

Sir, in Luano, there are no street vendors, but there are youths who run small businesses and grow crops like cabbage and rape through clubs. How will those youths benefit from youth empowerment programmes?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, the ministry runs a number of empowerment programmes. This is only one of them, but it strictly targeted at people who trade either on the streets or in markets. It does not discriminate against those who trade in the markets. For other need areas, there are other programmes on which the hon. Member for Mkushi South can engage me during the tea break.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: I am informed by the control desk that we are now able to queue up as many as twenty-five names of debaters on the system. So, please try it.

 

Mr Ngulube: Press the button very quickly.

 

Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga): Mr Speaker, with due respect to the hon. Minister, is he saying that the men and women of superlative wisdom gathered here should be used as messengers for this empowerment programme, yet they can not recommend anyone to be a beneficiary? If so, where does that leave the hon. Member of Parliament?

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, I will never demean hon. Members of Parliament. Instead, I expect them to have keen interest in developing their respective constituencies.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, the empowerment programme has already been rolled out and it is taking shape. I have come to the House to apprise hon. Members of it so that, being honorary Members of this august House, they should be able …

 

Mr Chabi: Honorary, ifwe?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mawere: ... hon. Members, to know exactly what is happening in their respective constituencies and help this Government to deliver services to the expectations of our people.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, in Kalomo Central, one gentleman drew the list of beneficiaries alone. On Monday, this week, it was discovered that all the beneficiaries he recommended were all Patriotic Front (PF) members. What measures has the hon. Minister put in place to make sure that this good scheme is not politicised?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, we have not received any notification on that allegation. However, if that was really the case, the hon. Member of Parliament can engage us.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Daka (Msanzala): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for a very well-articulated statement.

 

Sir, the programme was introduced in Petauke this week. When I approached the organisation that is in charge of it, I was told that it had already selected seventy-seven beneficiaries from the district. Since there are three constituencies in Petauke, the total number was divided by three. Two of the constituencies would have twenty-five while Petauke Central would have twenty-seven beneficiaries. I immediately called the hon. Minister and informed him of the information, and the fact that those spearheading the programme in the district were charging the beneficiaries K50 …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

 

Mr Daka: … for the form. Could the hon. Minister clarify whether the Government is in charge of this programme or is it merely an appendage to it?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, this Government is very much in charge.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Ngulube: K50!

 

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Mr Speaker, let me start by saying that I am left in a quagmire as to whether this programme is there to promote the illegality of street vending or to bring sanity to our country. What measures is the hon. Minister taking to ensure that people from Mwembezhi do not become vendors in Lusaka in an attempt to benefit from the programme?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, the intention of the programme is to assist the young people who are on the streets and markets to grow their businesses by giving them loans to the tune of K1,500 each. We will never promote illegality as put across by the hon. Member. Instead, we want to see the young people become entrepreneurs, own big shops and take charge of the economy of this country. So, the name of the programme might be misunderstood, but we intend to move people from the streets. I know that most councils are moving people from the streets to designated trading places. As the vendors are moved, we desire to empower them.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Ms Phiri (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, in trying to keep the streets clean, we have forced some youths take their tuntemba or small trading stands at home, and it is not easy for them to know how they can become members of the organisation that is responsible for identifying beneficiaries. Could the hon. Minister tell the House where the offices of the organisation are so that I can direct the youths in my constituencies who trade in front of their parents’ homes where to go and register so that they can benefit from the programme?      

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, I am very happy that the hon. Members of Parliament are now getting interested in this very important programme.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: Question!

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, the people in charge of the programme are in the markets and streets. In an event that the youths fail to locate them in those places, our offices are open. So, the youths can come to us so that we direct them to the right people.

 

Thank you, Sir.                    

 

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement. However, I am concerned about the implementation of the programme because all the three implementing institutions he has mentioned, namely the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST), the ministry and the vendors and marketeers’ union are not represented in Nkeyema. So, he has to tell us how the programme will work. Further, between the District Commissioner (DC) and the Council Chairperson, who is responsibility for the programme? I ask this question because the ministry might create conflicts if it mishandles this programme.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I indicated that there are three stakeholders in this programme, namely the ministry, which is responsible for mobilising resources; ZAMPOST, which will manage the fund; and the USVF, which identifies and represents the beneficiaries. It would be very unfair for the DC or Council Chairperson to identify people in the markets. That is not part of this programme. If they had any role to play, we would have indicated that in the MoU. So, there is no conflict whatsoever between Council Chairpersons and the DCs. We understand that those people are the leaders in their districts and that they need to know programmes being implemented in their jurisdictions. Further, we inform the Provincial Permanent Secretaries (PSs) about the programme in the provinces where we have offices because this is a Government initiative. However, we only expect them to take note and encourage the young people to follow the laid-down procedure, not to give us the beneficiary lists.

 

Sir, there was a question concerning the association charging the beneficiaries K50. For the information of the House, the association is a membership-based organisation. However, as a Government, we have guided it not to collect membership or commitment fees from people who are unlikely to benefit from the programme. The guiding principle, therefore, is that they should only ask for commitment fees from people they know will be empowered. I am sure that will not bring in the grey areas. There are programmes in which associations collected money from marketeers and vendors, and, thereafter, disappeared, but we have guided that this one be different.

 

I thank you, Sir. 

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I am advised by the people at the control desk that you should not stand too close to the microphone when debating because that creates some feedback noise on the system, which is very sensitive.

 

Mr Kopulande (Chembe): Mr Speaker, the spirit of empowering young entrepreneurs to grow their businesses is very good and the programme deserves commendation and support from every well-meaning Zambian. However, if I am not mistaken, street vending is illegal in this country.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kopulande: Therefore, it seems to me that the ministry is implementing a programme that supports an illegality.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kopulande: Is the ministry not in a position to come up with an initiative whose name does not denote an illegality, for example, one that could be called “Youth Entrepreneurship Support Programme”? We cannot base a programme on an illegality. Otherwise, how can we have any hope of ending street vending and cleaning up the towns and cities of this country?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, no illegality will ever be promoted by this Government.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mawere: Sir, we face the challenge of street vending and we have to move people away from the streets so that they can trade in places that have been designated for that purpose by local authorities. The fund is intended for that purpose.

 

Mr Speaker, most of the beneficiaries of the fund are people who used to trade on the street, but were moved by the local authorities into markets. However, if the name of the programme seems inappropriate to the House, my ministry is willing to change it.

 

I thank you, Sir. 

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned some figures. For example, he said that 566 youths will share K850,000 in the Southern Province. Where did he get those figures from? I ask this question because when the market in Livingstone was demolished, more than 500 young people were forced to trade on the street.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, the Central Statistical Office (CSO) always provides us with the demographic data on respective provinces and districts. So, the figures I have given were provided by the CSO. If the hon. Member has different statistics, he is free to avail them to us.

 

Sir, it is the desire of this Government to empower every young person in this country. So, this programme is will not the last. If it works out well, the Government will put more resources into it so that many more young people, if not all, can benefit from it.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe asked a question on the illegality of the programme and the hon. Minister responded that the illegality can be corrected by changing the name from “Youth Street Vendors Empowerment Fund” to something more suitable. That gives me the impression that the hon. Minister thinks that it is possible to change an illegality into something legal by simply changing the nomenclature.

 

Mr Speaker, in 2007, I was one of the men and women who enacted the Markets and Bus Stations Act No. 7, 2007, which I know the hon. Minister of Local Government has read over and over. Let me quote for him a Section of that piece of legislation, whose violation might result in his paying 30,000 penalty units or a serving a jail sentence of, at least, six months ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: …when the chickens come home to roost.

 

Mr Speaker, Section 6(1) provides as follows:

 

“A person shall not, except in partnership with a local authority and with approval of the Minister –

 

1.  establish any market or bus station in any area.”

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Chembe indicated that vending is illegal because vendors trade in undesignated areas.

 

Sir, Section 6(2) provides as follows:

 

“Any person who contravenes this section commits an offence and is liable, on conviction, to a fine not exceeding thirty thousand penalty units and a further fine not exceeding one thousand penalty units for each day the contravention continues or, in default, to imprisonment for a period not exceeding six months”.

 

Sir, my assumption is that the hon. Minister is ready to go to jail.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, we laboured to pass the Markets and Bus Stations Act, an illegal group with no identity whatsoever anywhere, including in the constituency that I represent, has now been institutionalised by this ministerial statement. Hon. Mawere, how does the illegal entity interface with the Act I have just read to you? Furthermore, how do you related with your colleague, the hon. Minister of Local Government, who is a custodian of this Act? Does the right hand in your Government know exactly what the left hand in doing?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, my ministry is not contravening any law by establishing any structure in any market. Instead, it is empowering young people by working with the existing structures.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has not answered the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central. Can he clarify whether he is now encouraging the unemployed youths in our various constituencies start vending on the streets in order to benefit from this fund? His statement implies that the fund is only intended for street vendors.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I indicated that we want to see our young people who are trading from undesignated places go start trading from designated places. I have also said that the ministry wants to see …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, I have the statement with me. So, I challenge my colleagues to peruse it and see whether what I am saying is not true.

 

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mawere: Sir, we want the youths to grow from being street vendors to big shops owners. It is not easy to achieve that from vending. One has to look for a plot and build a shop there. That is the main objective of this programme.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Before I give the Floor to the last six hon. Members, let me guide the House in order to avoid a repetition of questions. 

 

Hon. Minister, to curtail the controversy that seems to be emerging, I remind you of your take into account the concession he made earlier, that is, to review the intent and name of the programme given the fact that many hon. Members feel that it is currently tailored for street vendors, as implied by its name. It goes without saying that street vendors are persons who sell on the streets.

 

 Laughter

 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, generally, this debate is centred on how best we can realise demographic dividends from the youths, who are the majority in this country. However, the targeting has to be properly done.

 

Sir, the policy thrust of the hon. Minister’s programme is towards empowering traders. In the rural areas, there are productive traders among the youths, that is to say, they produce and trade at the same time. For example, they rear and sell cattle and chickens, and grow and rice. This programme is discriminatory to such youths. Could the hon. Minister clearly tell us which programmes will target those youths.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, one of the Quick-Win programmes in the Action Plan for Youth Employment and Empowerment is one that is targeted at the empowerment of young people involved in agriculture. In that regard, we have requested the provincial administrations to persuade traditional leaders to surrender part of their land to the ministry so that in can settle young people who are willing to venture into agriculture. For the information of the House, we have started developing the Mwange Resettlement Scheme in Mporokoso, where we intend to resettle young people who are ready to go into agriculture. Further, this Government is spending a lot of money on the cadastral surveying of about 26 ha of land in Kasempa and Mufumbwe in North-Western. Officers are now on the ground demarcating the land. Once we have finished with that exercise, the land will be allocated to the youths in the North-Western Province and from other provinces of the country. We are working with other line ministries, such as the ministries of Fisheries and Livestock, and Agriculture, to identify the young people who should be considered for this programme. I am aware that the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is rolling out a programme on small ruminants, which can benefit our youths. Further, the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) under the Ministry of Agriculture is helping many young people to engage in agricultural production.

 

Sir, this ministry does not work in isolation, but with other Government ministries and agencies, which run a number of programmes. Therefore, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa should not be discouraged because there are a number of programmes that will target his people, especially those who engage in agricultural production.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

 Mr Miti (Feira): Mr Speaker, this initiative of the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development is very good. For the first time, I am relieved that there is a programme into which entrepreneurship capacity building has been incorporated. However, the youths would like to know who will bear the cost of the capacity building.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that good question.

 

Sir, the cost for capacity building will be borne by the ministry.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I stand to be corrected, but I think that I heard the hon. Minister say that about 2,500 youths have benefited from this programme. However, I have many questions, although I will only ask one, as per our tradition.

 

Sir, does the hon. Minister not think that the programme is only meant to appease the cadres, especially when he looks at the kind of people the ministry is targeting? There are many university graduates who are unable to find jobs and school leavers who are unable to get into university because they cannot afford it. Does the hon. Minister not think that establishing co-operatives for street vendors is only meant to appease the cadres who voted for the current Government?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, my ministry is called the “Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development”. Therefore, it is within my portfolio functions to give equal opportunities to all young people. Whether they are being perceived as cadres or not is beside the point. However, in our selection of beneficiaries of this programme, we look at their age, not their political affiliation. So, it does not matter whether the beneficiary is a cadre or not.

 

Mr Speaker, it is inconceivable that all the 2,667 young people who have already benefited from the fund in Lusaka, Central and the Copperbelt provinces, and have done very well are all cadres. I believe they are very good role models to other young people because they were able to pay back the loans 100 per cent and the ministry is looking forward to lending them more money.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has heard the concerns of hon. Members of Parliament, one being the involvement of District Commissioners (DCs), who are seen to be politically inclined to the party in power. Therefore, in implementing this programme, will the Government use the existing legal structures under the Ministry of Local Government, in the markets, and the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare, which has registered youth clubs?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, in one of my earlier answers, I indicated that the DCs and the civic leaders were incorporated for informational purposes only because they are the leaders at district level. They are not involved in the selection of beneficiaries. The vendors’ association, ZAMPOST and the ministry are the ones that do the selection. That is specified in the MoU on this programme.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister try to justify the involvement of the street vendors’ associations, District Commissioners (DCs) and civic leaders in the co-ordination of the programme. However, I have not heard him talk about the involvement of hon. Members of Parliament. I am sure it is very clear that all hon. Members of Parliament must have a say in programmes run in their respective constituencies. In light of the hon. Minister’s admission that hon. Members of Parliament and the Committee on Youth and Sport were not consulted on this programme, does he intend to hold a consultative meeting with hon. Members of Parliament so that we can air our views? I ask this question because I know that in most areas, including Kabwe Central, programmes that were implemented without the involvement of hon. Members of Parliament ended up being abused. At times, hon. Members of Parliament are made to account for the programmes the Government is actually implementing in the area of youth empowerment. Therefore, they need to make an input into the programme and know how it is being implemented.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, the ministry will take that request into consideration.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Chabi: When you are already up and running?

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, following the question asked by the hon. Member for Chembe, the hon. Minister agreed that changing the name of the programme might make the programme more legitimate and acceptable. I, however, want to put it to him that that doing that will not remove the illegality. Street vending is illegal and it will remain so unless the relevant laws are amended. So, I want to make a follow-up on Hon. Nkombo’s question.

 

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

 

The Lufuma: Can the hon. Minister tell me how this programme will interface with the Markets and Bus Stations Act, which administered by the Ministry of Local Government. Under the Act, this programme is illegal. Therefore, how will the hon. Minister harmonise the situation? Will he repeal the Act?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, I have admitted that we may need to rename of the programme so that the name reflects the spirit of the programme.

 

Sir, in my statement, I said the following:

 

“The scheme is aimed at increasing access to affordable finance by youth street vendors in order to empower them to grow their businesses to higher levels, improve their livelihoods and leave the streets to engage in more organised models of trading, such as running shops. The principle, therefore, is that if a youth gets a loan and successfully repays it, he or she will be eligible to borrow the same amount or more”.

 

So, Mr Speaker, it is very clear that we are not encouraging illegality. Rather, we want to assist our people to move from the undesignated areas from which they trade to designated ones.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: We have spent quite a great deal of time on this subject, but I will allow the last question from an hon. Member whom I am informed by the Clerks-at-the-Table has been trying to ask a question since yesterday.

 

Laughter

 

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I am a little embarrassed by the comment, but it is true.

 

Mr Lufuma: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member  on the Floor is about to ask the last question and I will not permit any point of order.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Let me explain.

 

The first point of order, which was raised when the hon. Minister was on the Floor, should not have been allowed.

 

Ms Kasune: Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister know the ratio of distribution for the pilot project in terms of rural distribution? Our concern, as hon. Members of Parliament representing rural areas, is that we have been disadvantaged when it comes to such funds, yet we have more youths there than in urban areas.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, we share the concern of the hon. Member and that is the reason we are on a quest to decentralise the operations of this Government. With this programme, we have ensured that the identification of beneficiaries is done at district level in all the districts of this great nation, Zambia. So, I do not expect any district to be disadvantaged and we hope that young people from all the constituencies will apply for funding. In the future, in the event that we notice some constituencies being disadvantaged, we will go the extra mile and ensure that the situation is remedied and the programme’s impact is felt even at constituency and ward levels.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

STATUS OF HARBOURS IN ZAMBIA

 

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Chitotela): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to update the august House on the status of harbours in Zambia.

 

Sir, allow me to clarify what we mean by “harbours” so that we can have a common understanding of the term. A harbour is a sheltered area of a water body in which vessels can be launched, taken for repair and docked, and where they can transfer people or cargo to or from land. It is also where vessels can seek refuge in times of storms. Thus, in most cases, harbours are mentioned together with the waterways just like stations cannot be considered in isolation from the roads.

 

Mr Speaker, in Zambia, as in many other countries, inland waterways play a vital role in providing transport services, particularly in areas with no proper roads or those around major water bodies, such as the Zambezi, Kafue, Chambeshi and Luapula rivers, and lakes like Kariba, Bangweulu, Mweru, Mweru-Wantipa and Tanganyika. The six major waterways that are relevant in relation to this statement are:

 

(a) Lake Tanganyika;

 

(b) Lake Bangweulu;

 

(c) Lake Mweru;

 

(d) Lake Kariba;

 

(e) Luapula River;

 

(f) Zambezi River; and

 

(g) Kafue River.

 

Sir, most of the waterways mentioned above need human intervention to improve their capability to be used for water transportation. They require deepening, widening and removal of obstructions, such as rocks or trees, to make them more navigable. Because of this factor, inland water transport in Zambia has lagged behind compared with other modes of transportation, with most harbours still in their natural state and requiring upgrading.

 

Mr Speaker, harbours are an integral part of the transportation network on lakes, rivers and canals. The notable ones in Zambia are:

 

(a) Mpulungu Harbour on Lake Tanganyika, which is the only international water gateway to the Great Lakes Region;

 

(b) Chilubi Harbour on Lake Bangweulu;

 

(c) Samfya Harbour on Lake Bangweulu;

 

(d) Nchelenge Harbour on Lake Mweru;

 

(e) Siavonga Harbour on Lake Kariba;

 

(f) Sinazongwe Harbour on Lake Kariba;

 

(g) Mulambwa Harbour on Zambezi River in Mongu;

 

(h) Luangwa/Feira Harbour on Luangwa River;

 

(i) Lupiya Harbour on Lake Mweru;

 

(j) Nsumbu Harbour on Lake Tanganyika; and

 

(k) Shangombo Harbour on the Rivungo Canal.

 

Sir, I wish to reiterate that our harbours are still in their natural form and pose enormous challenges to our people during boarding and disembarking from the passenger vessels, and loading and offloading cargo. In some areas, boats and canoes are used as the primary mode of transportation, a situation that is of great concern to this Government. For this reason, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government embarked on the development of harbours and upgrading of some existing ones in order to improve the facilities and service delivery to our people. In this regard, in 2014, four contracts were signed for the rehabilitation of the harbour facilities on Lake Tanganyika, Lake Bangweulu and Lake Mweru. That signified the commencement of Phase I of the rehabilitation and development of harbours, under which the feasibility study for the modernisation of Mpulungu Port is still underway. The Government has received the report submitted by the consultant with a preliminary cost estimate of US$47 million. The bankable document to be prepared following the study will enable the Government to access funds for the construction of the new Mpulungu Harbour from co-operating partners. The Government has already requested the African Development Bank (AfDB) and the European Union (EU) for the US$47 million to fund the project. The costs to be covered include geo-technical investigation, acquisition of land for the extension and dredging of the ship inlet.

 

Sir, 35 per cent of works on the structure at Nchelenge Harbour have been completed at a cost of K1.4 million. The works include, upgrading of the Nchelenge/ Mweru Water Transport Board Offices and lodging facilities, and construction of landing jetties and associated embankments. The contractor working on the office block and lodging facilities has since submitted the second interim payment certificate (IPC) for payment. The contract sum is K30 million and the contractor is Messrs Angel Construction.

 

Mr Speaker, works at Samfya Harbour were executed at a contract sum of K30 million. The works included the finalisation of the geo-technical investigation and on-going construction of embankments and landing jetties. Further, works on the road and the driveway to docking points are still at the design stage. Overall, 20 per cent of the works have been completed. The contractor is Kawazane Enterprises.

 

Mr Speaker, with regard to Chilubi Harbour, Messrs Clest Mark Investment Limited was engaged to carry out the development of the landing jetties at a cost of K490,606. However, progress on the works is not expected, as the project has stalled at slab level, with only three courses built. The contractor abandoned the site more than six months ago. Following this state of affairs, the process of terminating the contract has begun.

 

Mr Speaker, in the Western Province, improvement of the Shang’ombo Harbour was initiated by the Government of Zambia in collaboration with the Angolan Government through the development of the Shang’ombo/Rivungo Canal. The first phase involved the construction of a 10 km canal, which has since been completed and is now usable. Further, the Government aims to establish a new intermodal transport network combining water, rail, road and air transport systems between Shang’ombo and Rivungo districts. With regard to the harbour infrastructure on the Zambian side, Messrs Clest Mark Investment Limited will commence works as soon as he finishes demobilising from Rivungo on the Angolan side, where works have been completed.

 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I want to indicate that the Government will continue with its proactive approach to harbour infrastructure development in the country in order to improve the inland water transportation. In that regard, my ministry will ensure that all on-going works are completed without further delay. I have also directed the Director for Public Infrastructure to ensure that adequate budgetary provisions are made for the improvement of harbour facilities countrywide in the coming years to ensure that our harbours meet international maritime standards.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development.

 

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Mr Speaker, does the Government of Zambia have any plan to fund the infrastructure development on the Zambian side of the Shangombo/Rivungu Canal? I ask this question because, so far, the whole project has been funded by the Angolan Government.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I mentioned that the contractor who has been working on the Angolan side will move to the Zambian side as soon as he demobilises from the Angolan side. We recently inspected the project and a very good job has been done on the Angolan side. We hope the works on the Zambian side will be equally good.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I listened attentively to the hon. Minister as he outlined a number of harbour projects that are in the pipeline, but I did not hear him mention a point that has now become a very important harbour, namely a point on the Zambezi Bridge that connects Mongu to Kalabo. The point has become important because people who travel by water from Lukulu, Libonda and the southern parts, such as Senanga, come out of the boats there to get on buses. Why has the hon. Minister he left out that important point? Crocodiles have become very active on that spot because they have …

 

Laughter

 

Ms Lubezhi: Yah, yah!

 

Dr Musokotwane: … noticed that there are many people coming out of boats. Why does he want to wait until the crocodiles start feasting on human beings before he rushes there with a solution?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, we do not want to see people get caught by crocodiles, and I hope that Hon. Dr Musokotwane will give us the name of the point he is referring to so that we can include it in our plans and budget for next year. He has referred to “the point” and “there”. So, I do not know how I or the ministry can include an unnamed place in our budget. Maybe, if he can, he should write to us and give us the name so that we can include it in our plans.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Munkonge (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, it is encouraging to hear that we are developing our water resources, especially given that I come from an area where water can easily become the main mode of transport.

 

Sir, is it possible for the hon. Minister to give us the figures on the expected increase in traffic and income when the size of the harbour is increased? If he is the right person to ask, can he also indicate when Zambia will own ships. I can safely say that there is no Zambian ship at Mpulungu Harbour, and that gives the advantage to foreign ship owners.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukashya for that wonderful question.

 

Sir, the policy and transportation part of waterways is administered by the Ministry of Transport and Communication. My ministry is only responsible for the infrastructure development part. However, we will sit down with our colleagues in the other ministry and ask them when Zambia will be able to own a ship that will be able to transport our goods and services. We will also ask them on the expected gains.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister might be aware, the works at Bangweulu Harbour stalled almost two years ago and the two contractors abandoned the site. When are those contractors likely to get back on site?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. For the information of the House, the hon. Member has engaged us on that issue before.

 

Sir, unfortunately, during the realignment of some functions from one ministry to another, the marine infrastructure programme was left without a Budgetary provision. That is what has made it a challenge for us to embark on major maritime infrastructure works this year. That is why I stated that we have directed the Director of Public Infrastructure to make sure that there is a provisions for that programme in the next Budget so that we can start attending to this important mode of transportation. So, I to assure the hon. Member that, after the approval of the Budget, he will see some contractors resume works on most of the abandoned sites next year.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Jere: Mr Speaker, water transport is the oldest mode of transport. It is also the cheapest because it operates on the natural track. So, there are no huge expenses incurred. Does the hon. Minister have any plan to build roads leading to the water bodies?

 

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes!

 

Mr Chitotela: We run an integrated transport system, Mr Speaker. For the waterways to have economic value for the people, there should be access roads to the harbours so that the people can access the harbours.

 

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mulunda (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, does the Government have any plan to construct a new and modern harbour in Siavonga, considering that the old one has no room for expansion?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, yes, we intend to modernise and upgrade Siavonga Harbour in the second phase of the programme. The harbour is fifth on our list.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mulenga (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, relative to the cost of the harbours, what are the economic benefits to the Government and the users?

 

Mr Chitotela: The benefits, Mr Speaker, are that water transportation is the cheapest mode of transport. So, the Government will gain a lot from the people who will use water transport, such as my sisters from Lunga and Chilubi, and Hon. Dr Musokotwane, who can testify to this fact. Further, the people who live in those areas usually face many transportation challenges. In the case of Mpulungu Harbour, it has played a very critical role to the economic development of this country.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his timely statement on docklands and harbours, which are very important to our country. As you are aware, even the constituency I represent deserves a dockland. If we were to put harbours on the Kafue River, it would take precisely fifty minutes to get to Mazabuka by ferry.

 

Sir, the transport sector in this country will always have controversial issues, one of which is the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway. When will the hon. Minister issue a statement to the House on that project, which we think is extremely expensive, so that we can interrogate him on it? We could lower the cost of that project and invest the money thus saved in improving the docklands.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister will approach the Speaker on that issue in due course.

 

Mr Malama (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, I am informed that the contractor engaged to work on the Nchelenge Harbour was paid, but he has not been on site for about two years. How much was the contractor paid and when will he return to the site to complete the works?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, we paid the contractor part of the contract amount and the contractor has submitted the second IPC, but we are yet to pay.

 

Sir, as I stated earlier, during the realignment of portfolio functions, maritime infrastructure was not provided for in the 2017 Budget, and that caused the delay in the implementation of the project. However, we will make sure that all the facets of the transportation sector are provided for in the National Budget so that we can attend to them. So, as soon as the 2018 Budget is approved, we will ask the contractors to get back on site.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mrs Fundanga (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, I am bit concerned about Chilubi Harbour because it has not been worked on since Independence. Further, Lake Bangweulu has two other big islands, namely Chisi and Mbabala, which do not necessarily need harbours, but they could use some docking bays because people jump from the boats into the water. That is very sad to see.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I take note of the hon. Member’s concern. I urge the hon. Members for the constituencies in which the project will be implemented, namely the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare, the hon. Member for Chilubi and the hon. Member for Bangweulu, to come up with suggestions on whether we can provide our people with docks as we embark on the implementation of that project.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, early this year, the hon. Minister of Transport and Communication promised the people of Gwembe a safe water vessel on Lake Kariba. I did not hear the hon. Minister on the Floor mention Chipepo Harbour in Gwembe. When does the Government intend to construct a harbour there?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the essence of issuing a statement to the House. In case some projects that should have been budgeted for were left out, as is the case with Chipepo, I appeal to my hon. Colleagues to bring them to our attention in writing. As I draw the final schedule of works with my technocrats, we will include them in next year’s Annual Work Plan (AWP).

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, we can repair all the harbours, but that will be pointless if we do not use the dredgers that the Government bought to make the harbours free of silt. What has the ministry done in that regard?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Transport and Communication just handed some dredgers over to my ministry and we will soon distribute them to areas where they are needed. We will also ensure that the dredgers are used for the intended purpose once distributed.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement and for not omitting Nsumbu Harbour.

 

Sir, Nsumbu Harbour was very effective in facilitating international trade on Lake Tanganyika in the early 1950s. When will the harbour be constructed?

 

Mr Chitotela: Sir, Nsumbu Harbour will be constructed in Phase II of the programme.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the distance between Angola and Zambia is about 10 km. Why does the Zambian Government want to depend on the contractor who was contracted for works on the Angolan side by the Angolan Government?

 

Mr Nkombo: That contractor speaks Portuguese.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Miyutu: That contractor is almost done with the works on the other side, but why does the Zambian Government not engage another contractor to execute the works on our side?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, to set the record straight, the project in question is a joint venture. Even when the contractor handed over the Angolan side of the project, the Angolan Minister responsible for infrastructure and I were party to the proceedings. As I said, as soon as the contractor finishes on the Angolan side, he will move to the Zambian side, and there have been a lot of interaction between Zambia and Angola.

 

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, how much money will be paid to the contractor? Further, does the Government have enough money to fund the project?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, paying the contractor for which project?

 

Mr Ndalamei: For the Shangombo Harbour.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the Shangombo Harbour Project is funded by our co-operating partners.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: How much?

 

Mr Chitotela: Sir, I would need to check if the figure is in my statement because I do not want to give wrong information.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chitotela: Sir, I thought I had mentioned it in the statement, but I do not want to take too much of your time. So, I will check for it.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

__________

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

GAZETING OF MUKANDO, MABONDE, MPELEMBE AND MISUMBA SECONDARY SCHOOLS

 

11. Mr Mutale (Chitambo) asked the Minister of General Education when the following secondary schools in Chitambo District would be gazetted:

 

(a) Mukando;

 

(b) Mabonde;

 

(c) Mpelembe; and

 

(d) Misumba.

 

The Minister of General Education (Dr Wanchinga): Mr Speaker, ...

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

__________

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was in the process of saying that the gazetting of schools is a very important process because it is the first step towards the creation of positions that various teachers are employed to fill. Without an establishment approved by the Treasury, it is very difficult for schools to employ teachers.

 

Sir, for the benefit of people who may be interested in knowing, I would like to add that, in 2017, we have gazetted about 2,816 schools countrywide. The information on the distribution of the schools by province is available at the ministry.

 

Mr Speaker, getting back to the question, my response is that Mukando, Mabonde, Misumba and Mpelembe secondary schools are on the list of schools in Chitambo District to be gazetted in 2017. It is expected that the gazetting of all the other schools will be completed before the end of 2017.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

REHABILITATION OF MYOOYE/MUCHABI ROAD

 

12. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Local Government when the rehabilitation of the Myooye/Muchabi Road would commence.

 

The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Myooye/Muchabi Road will commence once the road is planned and budgeted for in the Annual Work Plan (AWP).  The hon. Member of Parliament is, therefore, urged to encourage the council to submit the road for consideration in the 2018/2019 AWP.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, the problem the council has is that it has only one grader to cater for both Nangoma and Mumbwa Constituencies. Is the hon. Minister in position to help us get some more equipment?

 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, there are many ways through which the council can acquire more equipment. For example, it can use the 20 per cent component of the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF), which is meant for capital projects. Further, if the hon. Member agrees, part of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) can also be used to procure such equipment. That said, a programme to be funded by a loan from World Bank will rehabilitate all the rural roads in the country. The other objective of the loan is to enable us procure equipment for the councils to use in maintaining the roads.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF A SECONDARY SCHOOL IN MILUJI WARD

 

13. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) asked the Minister of General Education:

 

(a) whether the Government had any plan to construct a secondary school in Miluji Ward in Mufumbwe Parliamentary Constituency;

 

(b) if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

 

(c) if there were no such plans, why.

 

Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, the Government has a plan to construct a day secondary school in Miluji Ward in Mufumbwe Parliamentary Constituency. However, the current policy of the Government is to concentrate on financing projects currently under implementation before starting new ones. However, Mufumbwe will be considered for any new opportunity for construction of new schools.

 

Mr Speaker, you will recall that, in the last Session, I made several references to the negotiations that were being held between the ministry and the World Bank concerning the construction of eighty-two secondary schools, funding of some interventions in teacher education and in other issues. These discussions have now been concluded and we are in the last stages of negotiating the locations of the schools to be constructed. I also mentioned several times in the last Session that a group of Turkish businessmen had offered to build about thirty schools countrywide. So, it is my hope that Mufumbwe Constituency might have an additional window for the construction of a secondary school in Miluji Ward. We just hope that the discussions with the Turkish businessmen and other arrangements are concluded soon. In short, we will certainly have an opportunity to construct a school in Miluji Ward in Mufumbwe Constituency.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answer he has given me and I am very excited about it. However, I am worried about his use of the phrase “may be considered”. Let me bring something to his attention. I am sure that he fully supports girl-child education and that he is aware that the school we are talking about is about 460 km from a boarding school that is still under construction. He is also aware that the nearest day secondary school to the area in question is about 180 km. In order to encourage girl-child education, does he not think that it prudent to consider Mufumbwe in more certain terms than to use “maybe”? Could he assure the people of Mufumbwe that they will certainly be considered?

 

Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, when it comes to the issue of girl-child education, the hon. Member is preaching to the converted. I really attach a lot of importance to girl-child education.

 

Mr Speaker, as regards making an assurance that the school will be built in the ward, I am unable to use more definite terms because there are some criteria that are still being worked out in our final negotiations with the World Bank. Not long ago, there was a meeting between the World Bank, on the one hand, and the ministries of General Education, Finance and others, on the other, in which what we now refer to as the Twangale Accord, which is a set of guidelines on how the World Bank interventions in this country will be mapped out, was passed. So, it is possible that the World Bank-funded project might bypass Miluji Ward. However, we certainly appreciate the challenges of educating our children in Mufumbwe and will do our best to ensure that a school is built there. That is as far as I can commit the Government.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

REOPENING OF SHIKAMUSHILE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CENTRE

 

14. Mr Mecha (Chifunabuli) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare:

 

(a)        whether the Government had any plan to reopen the community development centre in Shikamushile area of Chikuntila Ward in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency;

 

(b)        if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

 

(c)        if there were no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare (Mrs Kabanshi): Mr Speaker, the community development centre in Shikamushile area of Chikuntila Ward in Chifunabuli Constituency has been reopened and two community development assistants have been deployed to man it.

 

Sir, in light of the answer above, the other two questions fall off.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mecha: Mr Speaker, the people of Chifunabuli would like to know where the two officers are operating from because, in 1998, the community development infrastructure was abandoned and, in 2013, the house that was there collapsed. 

 

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, I know that the ministry faces many challenges in terms of housing for members of staff who are sent to man sub-centres. However, I assure the hon. Member that the officers we are sending to all the sub-centres are very committed to their work and rent huts or any available accommodation in Chifunabuli. I was in Chifunabuli just a few weeks ago and handed over a motorcycle to one of the Community Development Assistants there.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the hon. Member wants to know where the officers are domiciled.

 

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, they are in Chikuntila Ward, Chifunabuli Constituency.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mecha: Mr Speaker, now that it has been established that there is no office space for the members of staff in question, does the ministry have any intention to put up permanent infrastructure for its staff?

 

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, the ministry is committed to providing accommodation and office space for the officers it sends. That is in our plan.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

KAPIRI MPOSHI/NDOLA ROAD SIGNAGE

 

15. Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge) asked the Minister of Transport and Communication:

 

(a) when the Government would put road signs on the Kapiri Mposhi/Ndola road; and

 

(b) what had caused the delay in putting the road signs.

 

The Minister of Transport and Communication (Mr Mushimba): Mr Speaker, the road between Kapiri Mposhi and Ndola is part of the project that was awarded to China Jiangxi Corporation for International Economic and Technical Assistance for the upgrading of the Lusaka/Ndola Road into a dual carriageway. The scope of works includes the construction of the Kabwe and Kapiri Mposhi bypasses, and the Luanshya/Kafulafuta Road, and putting of state-of-the-art markings and signage on the roads. It is envisaged that the works will commence during the fourth quarter of 2017 and take four years to complete.

 

Sir, Road Development Agency (RDA) had commenced the procurement of contractors to install road signs and markings on the Lusaka/Ndola Road in 2017. However, to optimise resource usage, the agency has now opted to take advantage of the upcoming upgrading of the road into a dual carriageway and incorporate the installation of road signs and markings into the new project.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that answer.

 

Sir, you may agree with me that in the last five years, this was a favourite question whenever the former hon. Member of Parliament for Kwacha Constituency asked it on the Floor of the House. In response to it, we were given the same answer that the road markings and signage would be put up “soon”. Now, the hon. Minister is saying that the works will be part of a bigger project that will take four years to complete. What is the ministry doing in the interim? The road has had no markings and signs for six years or so and some fatal accidents have occurred because of that. Could the hon. Minister prioritise that concern from the people who travel between Lusaka and Ndola because the area is a death trap.

 

Mr Mushimba: Mr Speaker, we all share the hon. Member’s sentiments. Indeed, the road is strategically important. Therefore, it needs to have all the road furniture and safety provisions. That is why part of the works in the dual carriageway project is to make sure that we end up with a modern road with all the necessary facilities that come with a new road. Certainly, the markings and the road signage will be prioritised so that we save the lives of our people. Indeed, the road has claimed many lives due to a lack of markings and road signage.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

KASHIKISHI/CHIENGI/KAPUTA ROAD CONTRACT

 

16. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

 

(a) when the contract for the tarring of the Kashikishi/Chiengi/Kaputa Road was signed;

 

(b) what the name of the contractor for the project was;

 

(c) what the time frame for the project was; and

 

(d) what had caused the delay in commencing the project.

 

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Chitotela): Mr Speaker, the contract for upgrading to bituminous standard of the Kashikishi/Chiengi/Kaputa Road was signed on 28^th June, 2017.

 

Sir, the name of the contractor is Sino Hydro Zambia Limited.

 

Mr Speaker, the time frame for the execution of the works is thirty months from the date of commencement, which was on 25^th August, 2017, when the Road Development agency (RDA) handed over the site to the contractor.

 

Sir, part (d) of the question does not apply because from 28^th June to 25^th August, 2017, there was no delay, as the contractor was mobilising to move on site.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister …

 

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I had indicated to ask a question when the hon. Minister of General Education was responding to a question. I also indicated when the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare was on the Floor and my name kept showing on the screen together with the hon. Members for Chiengi and Roan, but we have not been allowed to debate. Meanwhile, the Chair kept saying “Next question”. Is the public address system well?

 

Mr Speaker: The system is well. What is your question?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, why are we not being given the chance to ask questions?

 

Mr Speaker: I have given you the chance to ask a question now.

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I have not indicated now, but my name is still there.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: May the hon. Member for Kaputa ask his question.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answer provided. However, the people of Kaputa, Mununga, Chiengi and Kashikishi want to know if the contract that was signed in June, 2017, is for the road that goes up to Kaputa or it is for the one that ends in Mununga. I need that clarification.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the contract that we signed is for the road that runs from Kashikishi to Chiengi and 10 km of township roads in Chiengi. These works are in Lot 1. There is also Lot 2, which starts from Chiengi to Kaputa. I presume the second lot is the one to which the hon. Member referred. However, the contract signed on 28^th June, 2017, concerns the Kashikishi/Chiengi Road. The road to which the hon. Member is referring is not part of the project in question.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I would like to remind the hon. Minister that the hon. Member for Kaputa’s question was on the Kashikishi/Chienge/Kaputa Road. That question also concerns Chienge because the stretch from Chienge to Kaputa also needs to be worked on. I once drove with the hon. Minister on the road and he saw how bad it is. Why has the Government signed a contract for the tarring of the road just up to Chiengi Boma and 10 km of township roads when there is a dire need for the road to be tarred up to Kaputa because some expectant mothers die while being transported from Lambwe Chomba to Chiengi Hospital? There is a contractor who was supposed to work on the road from …

 

Mr Ngulube: Question!

 

Ms Katuta: … Chiengi to Kaputa, and he has all the equipment.

 

Mr Chitotela:  Mr Speaker, it is very interesting to see how hon. Members try to sneak in new questions for their own interest. The hon. Members of Parliament for Chienge and Kaputa know that the Government signed a contract with China Hainan and the Zambian company working on the Pedicle Road for works on Lot 2 of the project, which is from Chiengi to Kaputa and 10 km of township roads in Kaputa. However, this question is on the road in Kashikishi, which is Lot 1. So, when preparing the response, we restricted ourselves to the road in Lot 1. There is a contract that covers the Chiengi/Lambwe Chomba/Kaputa Road.

 

Sir, I hope I will not invite questions that are not related to the principal question, but I want to inform the House that, this year, Sino Hydro Zambia Limited will construct 10 km of township roads in Kaputa and, thereafter, move to Lambwe Chomba and Chiengi. Since Sino Hydro will work on the road from Kashikishi to Chiengi and Nchelenge to Chiengi and China Hainan will work on the road from Chiengi to Kaputa via Lambwe Chomba, the roads will meet somewhere.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kopulande (Chembe): Mr Speaker, infrastructure development is one area in which the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is doing a wonderful job. I give credit to the hon. Minister for his knowledge and ability to plan and roll out infrastructure projects. However, I have a very serious concern on the overall macroeconomic impact of the contracting arrangements that the Government goes into. The hon. Minister said that the contractor for the Kashikishi/Chienge Road is Sino Hydro Zambia Limited and that beyond that to Kaputa, the contractor is China Hainan. On many other roads, the contracts are ‘China’ something, such as China Jiangxi Corporation Limited and China Jiangsu Limited.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kopulande: Sir, I have nothing against the Chinese, but simple economic considerations will make you realise that when you give all the jobs to foreign contractors, there is serious capital flight. The money comes from our Budget, but creates jobs in foreign countries while our people here remain impoverished. Is the ministry considering taking any affirmative action to empower local contractors to implement large road projects like the ones about which we are talking or will we, as Zambians, simply sit under the table and pick up the few crumbs that drop from the tables of Chinese contractors?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kopulande: Mr Speaker, what is the hon. Minister doing about this important issue?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I will take about five minutes to answer that question.

 

Sir, when a contract is advertised, the procurement team at the RDA does not choose who should bid. The advertisement is public and it is up to the people to participate. Further, in Zambia, there is a legal framework on the standards and grading of contractors and the National Council for Construction (NCC), which was created by Parliament. Road infrastructure projects fall under the Grade One category. In some instances, ten companies may respond of which none is Zambian. Does the hon. Member expect the RDA to cancel tenders when no Zambian company has bid, but later go for evaluations?

Sir, this Government made the very courageous move to introduce tolling in the road sector and I have appealed to Zambian businessmen and women to take advantage of such business opportunities and make money. The Government is able to raise up to K350 million in six months from the five tollgates on the Ndola/Kitwe Road. That is a business opportunity in which any Zambian can invest. I engaged the hon. Minister of Finance on that because Zambian contractors may have the technical capacity, yet lack the financial capability.

 

Mr Speaker, Parliament can enact a law to create a free financial zone where we can invite the big banks to invest in Zambia. We may need to relax the financial regulations for that to happen. All the Asian Tigers developed by, first, relaxing their financial regulations and that attracted the banks to invest. That, in turn, led to a drop in the cost of borrowing and businessmen started competing. So, an hon. Member can move a Private Member’s Motion so that we can relax the financial regulations …

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Chonya: Just present a Bill.

 

Mr Chitotela: … to enable people to have access to cheaper money. Thereafter, we can create capacity among Zambians. We have qualified engineers and competent men and women in Zambia, but some things do not work out for them because they do not have access to financial capital. So, I do not know whether the hon. Member for Chembe is saying that we must not award contracts until we find Zambians who are able to participate in projects.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, part of the hon. Member for Chembe’s question was on whether your ministry has any affirmative action programme.

 

Mr Chitotela: Yes, Mr Speaker.

 

Sir, since this Government cares about its citizens, it has a policy that requires foreign companies that are awarded contracts to sub-contract 20 per cent of the works to Zambian contractors so that we can build capacity among local contractors. Unfortunately, when some people are given contracts, they sell the contract back to the main contractors, preferring to cash-in immediately. So, I beg that as the Government is promoting the building of technical capacity among Zambian businessmen and women, the local contractors must execute their part of the contracts so that there is skills transfer.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, was the contract advertised? If so, was there no Zambian company that responded?  Further, what is the total contract sum and how many people negotiated for it? Was it also negotiated for by three prominent people?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kambwili: Lastly, is it allowed for three prominent people to negotiate contracts?

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Roan, that is a flurry of questions. The practice in this House is to ask only one question. So, ask a single question. I do not want to be the one to discriminate because I am sure that you have a main question.

 

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, he can answer whichever question he prefers.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, take your pick.

 

Laughter

 

Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Roan, Dr Chishimba Kambwili, for his questions.

 

Mr Speaker, the Kashikishi/Chienge/Kaputa Road contract was advertised and companies competed. After the technical evaluation in 2016, Sino Hydro Corporation Limited was selected as the preferred bidder. As per practice, and in accordance with the legal provisions, negotiations were entered into.  This Government operates according to the laws passed by this Parliament.

 

Mr Kambwili: Question!

 

Mr Chitotela: Sir, if Hon. Dr Kambwili wants us to operate outside the law, we will not do that. If negotiations are required, we will negotiate because that is what the law stipulates. When we leave office, tomorrow, we do not want to be scared of facing anybody. 

 

Finally, Sir, the total cost of the contract is K700 million.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Malama (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, part (a) of the Question refers to the Kashikishi/Chiengi/Kaputa Road. Is the contract for the Kaputa/Mununga/Kasongole Road or vice-versa? I ask this question because I heard the hon. Minister talk about Lambwe Chomba. 

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the project is on the Kashikishi/Mununga/Chiengi Road and 10 km of township roads in Chiengi. The corridor to which the hon. Member has referred is not part of the contract.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, for the sake of clarity, the Question was on the contract for tarring the Kashikishi/Chiengi/Kaputa Road, which has two lots. So, my Question was on both lots. However, I do not want to waste the hon. Minister’s time. So, I will file in a new Question. For now, could the hon. Minister just tell me whether the Kabuta and Kefulwa bridges, which are on that road, and the Mununga Bridge on the Kalungwishi River are included in the signed contract. 

 

Mr Chitotela: Yes, Sir, they are. 

 

Mr Speaker, let me clarify one thing. In case the hon. Member is concerned about the K700 million contract amount, the road is a chip-and-spray one, which is the lowest specification, not because our people there do not deserve good quality roads, but because of the low traffic volume. The Chiengi/Kaputa Road Project has its own cost.

 

Sir, the hon. Member for Kaputa has promised to file in a new Question. So, I will wait for the Question and do justice to it when it is file in.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, my question is a rider on the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe.

 

Sir, the contracts that the Government has been awarding are worth huge sums of money, yet most Zambian companies do not qualify for them. So, I am happy to hear that the policy of sub-contracting 20 per cent of the principal contract to local contractors is still intact. However, has the ministry considered coming up with a policy requiring foreign contractors to partner with Zambian contractors so that the latter can benefit?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry has been promoting the policy of foreign companies partnering with local ones for some time now.

 

Sir, indeed, I can confirm that the 20 Per Cent Policy is still in effect and some of its beneficiaries are in this House.

 

Amb. Malanji (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister …

 

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, is the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development in order not to be aware that the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act already provides for 20 per cent of contracts to be sub-contracted to Zambian contractors? 

 

Mr Chitotela: I said that it exists.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: You mentioned a policy.

 

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Monze Central!

 

I am sure you are aware that you cannot raise a point of order on the hon. Minister. What you should do, instead, is ask him a question. 

 

Hon. UPND Members: Ask him!

 

Mr Mwiimbu rose to ask a question.

 

Mr Speaker: Not now.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: I have to follow the queue. So, join it. 

 

Hon. Member for Kwacha, you may proceed.

 

Amb. Malanji: Mr Speaker, my question partially relates to the question asked by the hon. Member for Chembe.

 

Sir, as earlier alluded to by the previous speaker, a constraint to locals’ participation in the contracts is the huge amounts involved. How flexible is the Government in terms of giving sovereign guarantees to foreign companies that would want to partner local ones on any projects in Zambia?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I am not a lawyer but, if I understand the question correctly, I have been advised by the Ministry of Finance that the Government does not give sovereign guarantees to foreign companies. Only companies domiciled in this country are given sovereign guarantees.

 

Sir, I am not sure what the hon. Member is asking about. Is he asking about the Government giving sovereign guarantees to companies coming to Zambia? If so, such a law does not exist, according to the Ministry of Finance. 

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: I understood the question to be on whether sovereign guarantees can be given to Zambian contractors. Is that your question, hon. Member for Kwacha?

 

Amb. Malanji: Yes, Mr Speaker.

 

Any foreign investor would want safeguard his or her money by request for sovereign guarantee. 

 

Mr Speaker: Foreign companies or …

 

Amb. Malanji: Sir, yes, foreign companies that partner with local ones.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I need to check with the Ministry of Finance because the Loans and Authorisation Guarantees Act only empowers the hon. Minister of Finance to do that. Further, there stipulations on the kind of companies that qualify for sovereign guarantees. I do not want to speculate and mislead the House.

 

 Sir, I thank you.     

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, in response to a question on what affirmative action the ministry has taken to enhance Zambian participation, the hon. Minister mentioned the policy requiring 20 per cent of contracts awarded to foreign companies to be sub-contract to Zambian companies. He also said that, unfortunately, the Zambian companies tend to sell the 20 per cent stake to the principal contractors.

 

Mr Chitotela: Some.

 

Mr Lufuma: Is it most or some?

 

Mr Chitotela: Some.

 

Mr Lufuma: Anyway, whatever the case, what further affirmative action has the Government taken to ensure that the 20 per cent stake is not sold and that the money earned circulates in the Zambian economy?

 

 Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, what the hon. Member suggests requires a change of mindset among our people. We need to sensitise our people against selling the contracts we award them because our intention is to promote skills transfer. They should not go behind the Government to negotiate the sale of the contract and the Government only discovers what happened after a long time. Therefore, the best the Government can do is to continue sensitising our fellow citizens and to take advantage of opportunities that are created for to develop themselves so that the Zambian economy can be owned its citizens, as that is the only way we can share contracts amongst ourselves.

 

Sir, I must hasten to say that not all contractors engage in the stated vice. Some execute the works.

 

Sir, as Hon. Dora Siliya always tells us, it is not good to try to share poverty because if someone does not have anything to share, they cannot share anything. Therefore, we need to create capacity among Zambians so that we can start sharing the wealth of the nation among ourselves.

 

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Musonda (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, my question is on the 20 per cent contract stake reserved for local contractors.

 

Sir, notwithstanding the provisions of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act, is the hon. Minister in the position to share with this House, and through it, with the local contractors at whom the law is targeted, the process of unlocking the 20 per cent to which local contractors are entitled. I have asked this question because when a big foreign contractor is awarded a contract, he/she signs 100 per cent of the contract and, thereafter, assumes the responsibility of unlocking 20 per cent of the contract to local contractors. In my view, that has put the local contractors at the mercy of foreign contractors, thereby making the policy unattractive to the local contractors.

 

 Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, there are other ministries and agencies that award big contracts, but I will only answer with specific reference to the RDA.

 

Sir, when a contract is signed at 100 per cent, a contractor is given a list of the local contractors that can be sub-contracted. After the contractors to be sub-contracted submit their expressions of interest, the RDA does the selection and writes to the main contractor on whom the latter should sub-contract.

 

Sir, realising that the arrangement for the award of the sub-contracts might not be ideal for local contractors, we have been discussing with the RDA the possibility of separating the 20 per cent from the overall contract and advertising it directly to local contractors during the tendering process. The RDA will, then, tell the main contractors who the sub-contractors are. The rationale for doing that is to share wealth and create capacity in many small contractors because if we just nominate one or three, it will be difficult for more Zambians to participate in and benefit from contracts. Our wish is to have a situation in which up to twenty sub-contractors participate in one contract so that we can flourish and build capacity among ourselves.

 

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

 Mr A. Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about the 20 per cent that is reserved for Zambian contractors and how Zambian contractors sell those contracts back to the principal contractors.

 

Sir, we are all aware that one of the largest allocations in the Budget is to infrastructure development, yet the hon. Minister of National Development and Planning told us that 83 per cent of all the infrastructure contracts are in the hands of foreign companies. This, to echo the hon. Member for Chembe’s observation, leads to capital flight, which is not good for our banking sector.  

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is fully aware that our local contractors sell the 20 per cent reserved for them because of the poor and harsh conditions the main contractors offer when sub-contracting them. However, there are other contracts, such as the supply of bitumen, cement and crushed stones, that can be awarded to Zambians. Not too long ago, the hon. Minister of Finance pledged to create 100,000 jobs and one of the key contributors to the creation of those jobs was to be the Ministry of Housing and infrastructure Development. As an institution that consumes a colossal part of our resources, is the ministry devising any other strategy for ensuring that Zambians’ benefit from contracts in the sector go beyond the 20 per cent of contracts reserved for them? After all, we are all here because we want to see Zambians take control of this economy.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member. That is why we have appealed to chiefs who get royalties in the areas where projects are implemented to share the proceeds with the headmen and the communities in which they live. The wealth should not accrue to one person. So, my answer to the challenge in all big contracts is that it does not please us to go for foreign companies. However, because of financial incapacity of most local contractors, we are forced to do so. We all know that the answer lies within us.

 

Sir, I have been to Dubai, China and many east African countries.  When I was a Back Bencher, we took a tour to Uganda and we discovered that there was a bank specifically for the construction sector in that country. Can we do that in Zambia and enact laws that will make the business atmosphere in the country conducive. I have shared this view with the hon. Minister of Finance and Bank of Zambia (BoZ) Governor. Even hon. Members of Parliament can present a Private Member’s Bill so that we create a financial centre where banks can do their business. That way, we would reduce the cost of doing business in Zambia because money would begin circulating in our financial sectors and many Zambians would have access to capital.

 

Sir, I agree with the hon. Member that we need to change the way we look at contracts because it does not please us that there is no indigenous Zambian with a net worth of US$10 million. So we cannot continue fighting among ourselves. Instead, we need to formulate a better strategy because we are giving out a lot of money to foreigners through contracts. So, we need to start thinking about how we can start building capacity among ourselves. We need to do away with the pull-him-down (PHD) mentality. If somebody is doing well, people say, “Aba”, just to bring him or her down. We should not do that. Instead, we need to support one another.

 

Mr Speaker: What do you mean by ‘aba’?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, it means, “he has stolen” or “she has stolen”.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Mr Speaker, my question rides on the questions asked by the hon. Members for Chembe and Kantanshi.

 

Sir, if we still have a challenge in terms of Zambians accessing capital for purposes of participating in projects, have we put measures in place to ensure that when the contracts are awarded to foreigners, highly-qualified Zambians are part of the project execution teams? To an ordinary Zambian, it seems as though Zambians are only employed for the lowest class of work under projects. There is fear that those who are well-qualified in our country are being left behind. I know that the 20 per cent reserved for Zambian contractors is meant to increase the net incomes among Zambians, but something more needs to be done to ensure that Zambians continue to benefit from the resources of their country.

 

Mr Speaker: I am not very sure whether that is a question. What is the question, hon. Member?

 

Ms Kasune: Mr Speaker, the question is: Are highly-qualified Zambians employed by the foreign contractors to whom we award the contracts? What we have noticed is Zambians are only employed into work that the foreign contractors consider too menial to give to their own people.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, Zambian consulting engineers are the ones who supervise the works. The president of the Zambia Institute of Engineering (ZIE) is Dr Sikazwe and he has a large pool of Zambians whom we appoint as consulting engineers. Of course, some Zambian engineers are also employed directly by the foreign firms during the construction stage. However, a salary might not build capacity in Zambians. As the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development, what I want to do is empower Zambians to make billionaires from Zambian contracts. In that regard, I will continue speaking to the hon. Minister of Finance until the legal framework on financial matters is reviewed.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

REHABILITATION OF BRIDGES IN NYIMBA CONSTITUENCY

 

17. Mrs Mwansa (Nyimba) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

 

(a) whether the Government was aware that the following bridges in Nyimba Parliamentary Constituency were washed away:

 

(i) Musima Bridge on Musima Road;

 

(ii) Nyimba Bridge on Kapakasa Road; and

 

(iii) Mwape Bridge on the Mwape/Nyimba Road;

 

(b) if so, when rehabilitation works on each bridge would commence; and

 

(c) what the time frame for the completion of the works on each bridge was.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the washing away of the Musima Bridge on Musima Road, Nyimba Bridge on Kapakasa Road and Mwape Bridge on the Mwape/Nyimba Road.

 

Sir, the rehabilitation of the Musima and Nyimba bridges is expected to commence in this quarter of 2017 while the rehabilitation of Mwape Bridge requires detailed engineering designs, which are expected to be procured under the 2018 Road Sector Annual Work Plan (RSAWP). 

 

Sir, the rehabilitation of the Musima and Nyimba bridges will be completed in three months after commencement of works. The time frame for the completion of works on Mwape Bridge will only be determined after the detailed engineering designs have been completed.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mrs Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the people of Nyimba want to know the contractor for the works.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the contractor for which bridge? Is it for the works that are supposed to commence ones which are expected to be worked on during this quarter?

 

Mrs Mwansa indicated assent.

 

Mr Chitotela: Sir, I did not check who the contractor is. I can get back to the hon. Member after getting the information. I also need to check the amount involved. So, I should not be asked about that either.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, having been to Nyimba and knowing how important the bridges in question are, what immediate interventions have been made to help the people of Nyimba to transport their produce during this harvest season?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, there are temporary provisions, which will not be usable during the rainy season. I was discussing with the area hon. Member of Parliament outside on the need to attend to those bridges before the rainy season starts. As I said, the works will be completed in ninety days.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

PRESENTATION OF THE ACCESS TO INFORMATION BILL TO PARLIAMENT

 

18. Mr Lufuma asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting:

 

(a) when the Access to Information Bill would be presented to Parliament; and

 

(b) what had caused the delay in presenting the Bill.

 

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Ms Mulenga): Mr Speaker, the Government will present the Access to Information Bill to Parliament for enactment as soon as the Cabinet approval process has been completed.

 

Sir, may I indicate here that the right of access to information was part of the expanded Bill of Rights that was rejected during the 2016 Referendum. Had the referendum question been resolved in the affirmative, this matter could have been made a lot easier.

 

Mr Speaker, the delay in presenting the Bill to Parliament is due to the need to review the thirteen pieces of legislation that would impinge its implementation. The laws to be amended by the Ministry of Justice are:

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1810 hours until 1830 hours.

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to list the laws that need to be amended before we can present the Access to Information Bill. The laws are:

 

(a) the Interpretation and General Provisions Act, Cap 2;

 

(b) the Zambia Security Intelligence Service Act No. 14 of 1998;

 

(c) the State Security Act, Cap 11;

 

(d) the Penal Code, Cap 87;

 

(e) the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap 12;

 

(f) the Defamation Act, Cap 68;

 

(g) the Protected Places and Areas Act, Cap 125;

 

(h) the Census and Statistics Act, Cap 127;

 

(i) the Official Oaths Act, Cap 5;

 

(j) the Copyright and Performance Rights Act, Cap 406;

 

(k) the National Archives Act, Cap 175;

 

(l) the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act No. 21 of 2009; and

 

(m) the Information and Communications Technologies Act No. 15 of 2012.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, it seems there are many impediments to the presentation of the Bill to and its enactment by Parliament. The Government keeps saying things like Cabinet approval has not been given or that the Bill should have been enacted as part of the referendum. Now, the Government says that thirteen pieces of legislation need to be presented to the House for amendment first.

 

Mr Speaker, before and immediately after it was elected into Government, the Patriotic Front (PF) was very enthusiastic about presenting the Bill to Parliament and everybody applauded it for trying to champion laws that were missing from our Constitution. However, it seems they are now growing cold feet and coming up with many excuses. This Government has had since 2011 to present the Bill to the House. Why can it not do so quickly as promised to the people? Why can it not expedite the granting of Cabinet approval? Why has it taken seven years without the Bill being presented to Parliament?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I just want to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabompo that the Ministry of Justice will do the needful in the shortest possible time. The Bill will be tabled before Cabinet and presented to Parliament soon. We are doing everything possible to ensure that this Bill is enacted.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I love that assurance. The hon. Minister can rest assured of that.

 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Lufuma: However, honestly, she has to give us a time frame. So, when will the Bill be presented to this House?

 

Laughter

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Mulenga: Sir, that is a lovely question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabompo.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, giving a time frame would not do any of us justice. I am sure the Ministry of Justice has capable technocrats who are working to ensure that the Bill is presented to the Cabinet and Parliament.

 

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, assurances like the one the hon. Minister has made have been made in the past by her predecessors on the Floor of this House. What guarantee is she giving to this House that, this time around, that Bill will be presented to the House for consideration?

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central and assure him that the technocrats at the Ministry of Justice are currently working to ensure that the Bill can be enacted soonest.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF HEALTH POSTS IN MPONGWE CONSTITUENCY

 

19. Mr Bulaya (Mpongwe) asked the Minister of Housing and infrastructure Development:

 

(a) why the construction of the following health posts in Mpongwe Parliamentary Constituency had stalled:

 

(i) Chipese;

 

(ii) Bwembelelo;

 

(iii) Munkumpu; and

 

(iv) Chimbofuma; and

 

(b) when the construction works would resume.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the construction of Chipese, Bwembelelo, Munkumpu and Chimbofuma health posts in Mpongwe Parliamentary Constituency is being done as part of the Indian Government Line of Credit for the construction of 650 health posts across the country, through the Export-Import (Exim) Bank of India. The construction of the health posts has stalled due to budget ceilings, but the Ministry of Finance is currently liaising with Exim Bank of India on modalities for refinancing the project.

 

Sir, the construction works will resume when the financing modalities have been resolved.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Bulaya: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the incinerator at the Chipese site has developed serious cracks and is on the verge of falling apart? If he is aware, can he confirm whether the contractor was paid for that shoddy work?

 

Mr Kambita: Hear, hear! Ema question, aya!

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, obviously, there are provisions in any contract that provide for a defect liability period. If defects develop within the defect liability period, even if the site has been handed over, the contractor has is required to redo the job at his expense. So, I assure my hon. Brother that if it is true that cracks have appeared on the structure, the contractor will be made to redo the works, especially since he has not completed the works. We will ensure that Zambians get value for their money.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Hon. Minister (pointing at Mr Chitotela), I am assured and comforted by your statement on the certificates. However, what do the contractors do when the Government defaults on paying them? A case in point is the Mazabuka townships roads, which China Jiangsu spent money gravelling, but the Government failed to pay him.

 

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central in order to keep pointing his fingers at the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development instead of just asking his question and addressing the Speaker? His whole body is turned to the hon. Minister.

 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that the practice is that all debates and addresses are directed at me. I am not very sure, though, whether the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central’s finger was pointing at the hon. Minister. If it really was, could he, please, deflect it.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the fingers.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I want to find out from this hon. Minister here (indicating the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development subtly) ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: ... to what do the contractors have recourse have when these people ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: ... fail to pay them, as was the case with the Mazabuka township roads? The contractor spent money on gravelling the road but, just before the bitumen was poured on them, the Government abrogated the terms of the contract. What is the penalty on the Government when it behaves like that? That is what I want to know as I withdraw my fingers.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, at first, one finger was pointing at me. Now, ten are.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chitotela: Sir, every contract stipulates the responsibilities of the employer and employee, that is the Government and the contractor, and the penalties for violation of the terms of the contract by either party. Those provisions are evoked whenever one party is in default.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the hon. Member specifically asked about what happens in the Republic of Zambia. I think that was the focus of the question.

 

Mr Nkombo indicated assent.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, if the contract signed between the Government and a contractor has provisions on what should happen if the employer fails to honour the IPC in the stipulated period, then, the provisions should be implemented. I am not in possession of the contract for the project to which the hon. Member has referred for me to know what provisions were put in it. I equally do not know whether the Government is to pay interest for delaying the project or for the delay in honouring the IPC. I will check the details of the contract and advise accordingly.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Just out of curiosity, are the clauses not standard in all contracts?

 

Mr Nkombo: Thank you for asking that, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, depending on the employer, sector in which the project is implemented and magnitude of the project, there are variations in the provisions. For example, the contract for the construction of Mpongwe Rural Health Centre is in the housing and health sectors. Therefore, we cannot make the same provisions in it as we would in a contract for a project in the road or aviation sectors.

 

Sir, in the ministry, there are the Department of Public Infrastructure, the Department of Aviation and the Department of Roads, all of which fall under the RDA. So, the provisions in the contracts depend on the kind of job that is to be done.

 

Mr Speaker: Going by your example, what is the situation for contracts in the road sector?

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, for road projects, there are contractual provisions that stipulate that the employer should pay interest if he delays in paying the contractor. That is what might happen in the case in Mazabuka Central. So, the delay in completing projects is very costly to the employer due to those provisions.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, with regard to the penalties on the employer for failure to pay, could the hon. Minister give us a general picture of how much the Government owes contractors, seeing as it has abrogated many contracts. We want to measure how efficient this Government is.

 

Mr Speaker: Before the hon. Minister responds, and for clarity’s sake, are you referring to all the contracts?

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I am referring to some contracts, especially the one we are talking about now.

 

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member is referring to the Mpongwe Rural Health Centre contract, about which we have been told that the incinerator that was built has started developing cracks, the Government is not at fault. It is the fault of the employee, who is the contractor. That is why I said that the contractor will be made to redo the job at no cost to the Government. That is the picture in the case of the Mpongwe project. We will not accept the handover until that problem is rectified.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

VEHICLE FOR CHITAMBO DISTRICT DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

 

20. Mr Mutale asked the Minister of Agriculture when a motor vehicle would be provided to the Department of Agriculture in Chitambo District to ease transport challenges.

 

The Minister of Agriculture (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture provided a vehicle to the District Agriculture Co-ordinator (DACO) for Chitambo District in November, 2015, and the registration number of the vehicle is BAB 753. However, I am aware that most of our front line staff in the Ministry of Agriculture do not have adequate transport and we will continue to engage the Treasury so that funds can be provided for the ministry to procure more vehicles.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

________

 

MOTIONS

 

MOTION OF THANKS

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, …

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. Member: Question!

 

Mr L. Tembo: Napafita.

 

Mr Chabi: … I thank you for according me this chance to give my independent position on the speech delivered by the President to the Second Session of the Twelfth National Assembly.

 

Mr Speaker, as per the tradition of this House, allow me to recognise and appreciate the efforts made by my two colleagues, the mover and seconder of the Motion, yesterday for the exemplary manner in which they performed their duties. However, I beg to differ with them and sing from a different hymnal.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, if I am to describe the President’s Speech in a word, I will categorically say that it is a tired speech.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, when you read it, you realise that it creates the impression that the President and his Government are concerned about the welfare of the people, yet, actually, they are not.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer, hammer!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, last year, the people of Zambia elected this Government not for it to just create the impression that it is doing something for them, but to actually create a future and give them hope at midnight that it will be well the following morning.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Unfortunately, when you look at this speech, you realise that it has failed lamentably to provide a breath of hope to the people of Zambia. It has also failed lamentably to promote the social justice that the people of Zambia are demanding. Neither has it promoted the economic justice that the people of Zambia are demanding.

 

Sir, I will highlight a number of other issues that make this speech tired.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

If you constantly interject the hon. Member on the Floor, we will not follow. I want to follow. So, do not drown the hon. Member at every turn. Let him speak out.

 

The hon. Member on the Floor may continue.

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, leaders, especially those given the privilege to govern this country, must realise that this country can only be good for them if it is good for the people they lead.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, as a father and a husband, things can only be good for me if they are good for the rest of the members of my family.

 

Mr Speaker, a President’s Speech that does not comprehensively explain why the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has reduced the price of a 50 kg bag of maize to K60, …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chabi: … the price at which maize was being sold eight years ago, in 2009, is a tired one.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, a President’s Speech is tired when it does not explain to the people of Zambia and those of Chipili, in particular, why, of the 650 rural health centres that are supposed to be constructed countrywide, none has been constructed in the whole of Luapula Province except in Mansa Central, the constituency represented by the hon. Minister of Health.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, a President’s Speech that does not address the high levels of patronage in the recruitment of staff in Government departments and parastatal companies is a tired speech.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, the President told us that he wanted to lead a smart Zambia. However, a smart Zambia must go beyond putting in place smarter ways of receiving money from our children in towns, buying talk time and are transactions. It must also create a system that will be able to identify potential regardless of where it is.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, as things stand, getting employed is not a question of how qualified one is, but whom one knows.

 

Sir, a President’s Speech that is made only once in a year, but does not address that high level of patronage being practised is nothing, but a tired speech.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, a President’s Speech that is made only once in a year, but does not mention the number of nights and days the President has spent outside this country …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chabi: … in relation to the economic benefits that accrued to Zambia as a result is a tired speech.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, a President’s Speech that does not respond to the corruption allegations levelled against the President …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chabi: … in order to protect the reputation of that office is a tired speech.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: So, Mr Speaker, we cannot sit here, as leaders, and sing praises to a speech that has failed to give hope to the people.

 

Mr Speaker, as far as this speech is concerned, it is midnight in the social order of this country. It is midnight, as far as this speech is concerned, in the moral order of this country.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, the President was given a responsibility by the people to give us a direction, and we expect better than what we got on Friday, last week.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, let me take you to some of the President’s own words in the Speech.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Livune: Hammer, hammer!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, on page 17, paragraph 50, the President says:

 

Mr Chibanda: Paragraph what?

 

Mr Chabi:

 

“I want to stress Governments commitment to diversifying from an economy mainly dependant on mining to depend heavily on agriculture. This must be achieved against all odds”.

 

Mr Speaker, how possible is that when the major player in the diversification process is a small-scale farmer who is not motivated, but rather subjected to selling his or her 50 kg bag of maize at a low price of eight years ago?

 

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Chipili and the hon. Minister, please, resume your seats.

 

I am sure you know what I normally encourage whenever we debate this Speech.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: The practice is that if you have a divergent view, you wait for your turn to debate. That is because if we allow points of order in the course of the debate, first of all, we undermine the value of points of order and, secondly, we allow unnecessary disruptions of debates. So, hon. Minister, just take note of all the issues he is raising and respond to them when your turn to debate comes. That is the essence of debate.

 

Continue, hon. Member.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, thank you for your protection. My duty is to mention the loopholes so that our colleagues from the Cabinet can revitalise this tired speech.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: That is what I am doing and I know the time will come when my colleagues on the right will give energy to the speech. However, as far as I am concerned, this is a tired speech until they respond to some of the issues that we are raising because the issues are real. It is true that rural health centres have not been constructed in Luapula.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: It is also true that there are corrupt allegations that have been levelled against the President and that they have not been responded to in this speech. Therefore, the reputation of the Office of the President has been tarnished, and that is what we are interested in.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, the President declared that diversification must take place and that there was a need to shift the economy from mining to agriculture. I have a problem comprehending that because the farmer, who is meant to be the major player in the diversification process, is not being motivated. A farmer currently sells a 50 kg bag of maize at K60, a price left by the late President, Dr Levy Mwanawasa, SC., in 2008.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Meanwhile, in 2008, the cost of a bottle of cooking oil was K5 but, today, it is K15. Equally, a farmer bought a pair of trousers at K30 then but, now, a pair of trousers costs K120 in my constituency, meaning that, in 2008, a farmer was able to buy two pairs of trousers after selling one bag of maize. Now, he has to sell two bags to buy a pair of trousers. That is the reality on the ground, and the people of Chipili, Luapula and Zambia at large demanding answers from the Government and expected the President to provide the answers. It is as simple as that.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hammer, hammer!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, on page 18, paragraph 54, the President stated that:

 

“I am pleased to inform this august House that during the 2016/2017 Farming Season, Government and the private sector managed to bring on board an additional 8,000 hectares of land under irrigation. This has increased the total area under irrigation from 192,000 hectares in the 2015/2016 Farming Season to 200,000 hectares in the 2016/2017 Farming Season”.

 

Mr Speaker, I come from Luapula, and we all know that 60 per cent of the water bodies in this country are in Luapula Province, yet the people there have not seen a single hectare under that irrigation project. I expected the President to explain why, no more, no less. Otherwise, it means that we have nothing, but a tired speech.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, I will be very brief and concise so that I can give a chance to my colleagues to provide the answers.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Chabi: Sir, what is on page 55 is very sad.

 

The Head of State came to this House and said, on page 55, in the last line of paragraph 171, that:

 

“Works on the construction of King Lewanika and FTJ universities are expected to commence soon”.

 

Sir, that is not true. Yes, the construction of King Lewanika University is underway as I speak and some of the structures are at roof level and this information is in the public domain, as it was reported by the Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS). Meanwhile, not even some simple excavation work has been done at FTJ Chiluba University. So, how can the President come here and say that the works on the two universities will commence soon when one of the universities is already under construction?  For what does he take the people of Luapula?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chabi: Mr Speaker, this is a tired speech. In fact, allow me to proclaim that for as long as this is the kind of speeches that we will get from our leaders, the people in whom we have entrusted the responsibility to give us direction, then, it is midnight in the governance system of this country.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Amb. Malanji (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the President’s Speech on the occasion of the Official Opening of the Second Session of the Twelfth National Assembly, last week.

 

Sir, the President has accomplished his task. Considering the contents of the speech, the President knows what time of the day it is.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Amb. Malanji: Sir, we came to this Parliament by due guidance of the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ). You do realise that councillors, mayors and council chairpersons paid K500 and K1,500, respectively, as nomination fees to contest their positions while hon. Members of Parliament paid K7,00 ... 750 ...

 

Interruptions

 

Amb. Malanji: ... K7,000 ...

 

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kwacha!

 

Please, resume your seat.

 

One of our established rules is not to debate ourselves. You may have noticed that we have consistently deflected debates away from ourselves.

 

Please, take this rule into account as you continue.

 

Amb. Malanji: Mr Speaker, the reason I took that route was to establish our status and role as one of the three wings of the Government, namely the Judiciary, the Executive and us, the Legislature.

 

Sir, the three arms of the Government share the same logo, that is, the Coat of Arms. It is for this reason, fellow hon. Members, that we must realise the importance of our being in this House. We should not wear blinkers or metal jackets. The President is there to give policy direction while implementation remains our job.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

 

Ms Mulenga interjected.

 

Amb. Malanji: Sir, implementation remains in our hands. So, to start with, there must be unity.

 

Interruptions

 

Amb. Malanji: There must be …

 

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Members on my left!

 

You may not agree with him, but you still have to listen quietly. As I said earlier, just note all the things you disagree with so that you can address them when it is your time to speak.

 

 You may continue, hon. Member.

 

Interruptions

 

 Amb. Malanji: Mr Speaker, the immediate past President of the Senate of the Republic of Nigeria, Gen. Dr David Mark Alechenu, said:

 

“Le point culminant dela gouvernance ….

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Amb. Malanji: …

 

"... c’est quand le leader a la rapport surelevanle ala communauté".

 

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

He will translate. Give him space. He will translate.

 

Ms Mulenga: Ema learner MPs, aba!

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. Government Members: Bwekeshapo!

 

Amb. Malanji repeated the quotation.

 

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Amb. Malanji: Mr Speaker, basically, the quotation means that any Government is the gravity of relevance to the community through its distinguished service.

 

Sir, countries that were perceived to be pioneers of democracy now have a questionable global image of their democratic credentials because of a lack of unity among the stakeholders.

 

Mr Speaker, I know I was guided that we must not debate ourselves, but we have to realise that when we are in this House, our work must reflect the national character. It should not be swayed to the constituencies or houses from which we come. Gen. Collin Powell once said:

 

“The Senate shall deliver a component that will be accepted by the country and beyond its boundaries, and no Senator will be perceived to be without anklets and to have some that would have anklets”.

 

What he meant is that when we are seated here, as hon. Members of Parliament, our debates must be equal. There is no Opposition or hon. Member Parliament from …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kwacha!

 

Maybe, there is a point you want to make about the House. However, I repeat that the rules do not allow us to debate ourselves.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Let me provide some guidance.

 

We are here to debate His Excellency the President’s Speech.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker:  The speech contains many public policy issues, and that is what we need to focus on. It is for this reason that we distribute the written speech and urge every hon. Member to read it. As much as possible, the debate should be centred on the speech. That is the whole essence of this debate. There are many issues in this speech on which we can engage one another. If we go back to debating ourselves, I am afraid, I will keep interjecting, a thing I am not inclined to do. So, the Motion is on His Excellency the President’s Speech, which was an exposition of public policy. That is what we are debating here.

 

Amb. Malanji: Mr Speaker, my indication …

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

_________

 

The House adjourned at 1915 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 21^st September, 2017.

 

___________