Wednesday, 26th November, 2025

Wednesday, 26^th November, 2025

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the following members of staff from the Parliament of Tanzania:

Ms Rebeca Charles Balisidya - Principal Legal Officer, and

Leader of the Delegation

Ms Evelyne Renatus Shibandiko - Principal Legal Officer

Mr Patson Asumwisye Sobha - Senior Hansard Reporter

Ms Magdalena Gerson Mtera - Human Resource Officer

Ms Halima Yusuph Laizer - Information Officer

Mr Yesse Yustace Kaganda - Senior Supplies Officer

Mr John Didas Masaburi - Supplies Officer

Ms Germina Mdemu Magohe - Principal Records Management Assistant

Ms Magreth Peter Katema - Records Management Assistant

Mr Athumani Hamisi Kambagasa - Technician

Mr Lawrence Mark Koba - Technician

Ms Sarah Barnabas Chanai - Senior Office Management Secretary

Ms Cletty Benedict Urassa - Principal Receptionist

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I wish to welcome the guests, and warmly welcome them into our midst.

You are most welcome.

Karibuni.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: You are very welcome. We will have to ask somebody from Muchinga Province to teach us a few words. I know the hon. Member for Nakonde is not in the House.

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

MR KANG’OMBE, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KAMFINSA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF DEFENCE, AND ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, MR LUFUMA, ON THE VOTER REGISTRATION EXERCISE

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): On an Urgent Matter without Notice, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the privilege to raise an Urgent Matter without Notice, and I wish to direct it to the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Madam Speaker, on 13^th October, 2025, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) announced the commencement of voter registration. The exercise was supposed to run for one month. However, due to logistical challenges, people struggled to get National Registration Cards (NRCs), and there were other challenges that led to people to fail to acquire voters’ cards in good time. The ECZ announced that an extension was granted, which will expire today, 26^th November, 2025. Unfortunately, the 3.5 million target to capture new registered voters that was announced by the ECZ has not been attained. One of the reasons, and it is a nationwide challenge, is that most people failed to get NRCs and, consequently, failed to acquire voters’ cards, either new ones or replacements.

Madam Speaker, given the circumstances leading to the failure to reach the target, is it possible that consideration can be made to extend voter registration by another period of thirty days to ensure that we give people access to acquire voters’ cards? Is the Leader of Government Business in the House in order to not assure the many Zambians who have not acquired NRCs that another opportunity will be accorded to them?

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon Member for Kamfinsa.

Maybe, as a House, we can be given an update on how far we have gone with the registration of voters, and also, in terms of the people coming forth, the turnout. Are people going to register, or what is happening? Maybe, through the House, the people would need to be updated. So, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House can probably come back on Tuesday, next week, to issue a Ministerial Statement on how far the registration of voters has gone and if the target, which is 3.5 million, has been attained.

As hon. Members, let us encourage our people to register as voters. I thought it was an on-going process. Anyway, I am not the one in charge. The hon. Minister will brief us. Then he will tell us the challenges.

Thank you.

MR MUMBA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KANTANSHI, ON VOTER REGISTRATION

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): On an Urgent Matter without Notice, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Member for Kamfinsa for raising the matter. Just to add to the statistics, maybe, we are standing at 29 per cent of new voters, which is far below the 75 per cent that would provide for a credible election. So, thank you for the decision that you have made for the Ministerial Statement to be presented.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MR MTAYACHALO, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHAMA NORTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF DEFENCE, AND ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE, MR LUFUMA, ON THE EXTENSION OF VOTER REGISTRATION.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): On an Urgent Matter without Notice, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, actually, my matter is on the same issue. I think that even if we extend the voter registration period, minus dealing with the issue of the National Registration Cards (NRCs), we will not achieve any positive results. So, the hon. Minister must also indicate to us how many NRCs have been issued in each district or province, because we have many challenges in our respective constituencies, so that we know how many people have registered in each district or province. Then, we will be able to make an informed decision. I thought, maybe, that could also be included.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Let us not preempt the Ministerial Statement that will be presented. We will be able to ask questions after the Ministerial Statement is presented.

That concludes the Urgent Matters without Notice. I see that it was one issue, but three hon. Members have raised it.

Hon. Member for Nyimba, unfortunately, I cannot give you a chance. I am sure it was the same issue.

Mr Zulu: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: So, I guessed right. I am becoming a prophetess.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Okay, with that, let us go to the next item.

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BILLS

FIRST READING

THE FOOD RESERVE BILL, 2025

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Kapala) (on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo)): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Food Reserve Bill No. 33 of 2025. The objects of the Bill are to:

continue the existence of the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and re-define its functions;

re-constitute the Board of the agency and re-define its functions;

continue the existence of the National Strategic Food Reserve;

ensure national food security by maintaining sufficient levels of designated agricultural commodities to respond and provide food relief during emergencies or market and economic shocks;

provide for the power of the hon. Minister to designate agricultural commodities that are essential for food security;

provide for the purchase of designated agricultural commodities by the Agency for purposes of the National Strategic Food Reserve;

provide mechanisms for collaboration and co-operation with relevant regulatory and advisory agencies to ensure exchange of agricultural marketing information and the stabilisation of agricultural markets;

repeal and replace the Food Reserve Act, 2020; and

provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House in due course. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

THE AGRICULTURE CREDITS AND WAREHOUSE RECEIPTS BILL, 2025

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Agriculture Credits and Warehouse Receipts Bill No. 34 of 2025. The objects of the Bill are to:

continue the existence of the Warehouse Licensing Authority and re-define its functions;

reconstitute the Board of the Warehouse Licensing Authority and re-define its functions;

establish the Electronic Warehouse Receipt System and provide for its management;

regulate warehouses that issue warehouse receipts in the Republic;

provide for the rights and obligations of warehouse operators, depositors of agricultural commodities, holders of warehouse receipts, holders of agricultural charges and lenders under contracts of advance;

regulate contracts of advance and agricultural charges as security for agricultural commodities;

repeal and replace the Agriculture Credits Act, Chapter 224; and

provide for matters connected with, or incidental, to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Thank you.

THE AGRICULTURAL MARKETING BILL, 2025

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Agricultural Marketing Bill No. 35 of 2025. The objects of the Bill are to:

establish the Zambia Agricultural Marketing Council and define its functions;

regulate and support agricultural markets, promote an efficient, private sector driven agricultural marketing system;

establish the Agricultural Marketing Observatory Unit to manage data and information on agricultural products and markets;

facilitate access to agricultural markets;

promote the competitiveness of agricultural products and services in domestic, regional and international markets;

establish a framework for intervention measures relating to an agricultural product; and

provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Thank you.

THE ZAMBIA DEPOSIT INSURANCE CORPORATION BILL, 2025

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Zambia Deposit Insurance Corporation Bill No. 38 of 2025. The objects of the Bill are to:

establish the Zambia Deposit Insurance Corporation and provide for its functions;

protect depositors and contribute to financial system stability;

establish the Deposit Insurance Fund; and

provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Cabinet Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House in due course. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

STRATEGIC DAM MAINTENANCE IN CHADIZA

105. Eng. Daka (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

whether the Government has any strategic maintenance plan for dams in Chadiza District;

if so, when the plan will be implemented;

what the estimated cost of the project is; and

if there is no plan, why.

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Kapala) (on behalf of the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Eng. Nzovu)): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that, yes, the Government has plans to conduct dam maintenance in Chadiza District.

Madam Speaker, under the 2024/2025 Financial Year, the ministry undertook the maintenance of 104 dams in the Eastern Province, out of which twelve dams are in Chadiza District. The Government has plans to maintain seven dams in Chadiza District under the 2026 Budget.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of maintenance works of the seven dams is K419,000.

Madam Speaker, as indicated in my earlier response, plans are there and have since been implemented.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Eng. Daka: Madam Speaker, we take note of the hon. Minister’s response. However, when I compare his response with what exists on the ground, there is no correlation. As I speak, out of the twenty-one dams that we have, only about six are operational. The remaining dams are defective. Some are silted completely, while others have cracked walls and there is no holding capacity. Therefore, it is not true that twelve dams were maintained in Chadiza, as the hon. Minister stated, because I have been on the ground. The ministry tried to maintain the dam at Chazombe, where it merely took materials and took no further action, which shows a lack of seriousness.

Madam Speaker, Chadiza is a farming constituency, and we take dams or rainwater harvesting very seriously because that is how we water our animals and, to some extent, do crop irrigation. I want to find out from the hon. Minister if he has an idea or can give names of the twelve dams that were maintained in Chadiza.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, maybe, there is a bit of a misunderstanding between my fellow engineer and I. Probably, the question should have been about repairing, rehabilitating, rather than maintenance.

Madam Speaker, if you do not mind, I can read out the names of the dams that were maintained in 2024 and 2025. According to the information I have, these are:

Kampelela;

Kandabwako;

Kamphako;

Bwanunkha;

Chazombe;

Kasongo;

Luli;

Chamandala;

Kandabwako;

Chazombe;

Nsadzu; and

Chamuchenga.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I am just wondering what the difference between maintenance and repair is. I do not know.

We can make progress.

Hon. Member for Kaumbwe, you may proceed.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that the ministry has maintained twelve dams, and he has just listed the names. My comment is almost the same as Madam Speaker’s. The twelve dams that have been maintained are not operational. When you maintain something, it means you guarantee its operation. Could the hon. Minister mention the seven dams that the ministry intends to maintain. The people of Chadiza expect those seven dams to be maintained this year to be operational.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, thank you. I have a list of the seven dams that will be maintained next year, and these are as follows:

Kamphako;

Bwanunkha;

Chamuchenga;

Chamandala;

Kandabwako four;

Luli; and

Kasongo.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Eng. Daka: Madam Speaker, I have already alluded to the fact that the hon. Minister is mentioning dams which are in my constituency, like Chamuchenga and Champhelela. If him and I took a tour in my constituency, he would be very sorry to note that nothing has been done to those dams. That is why I was compelled to bring this question before the Floor of this House. Out of the twenty-one dams in my constituency, only six are operational. So, I request the hon. Minister to take a tour of my constituency with me on a fact-finding mission. As far as I am concerned, there is no strategic maintenance plan that the Government has put in place with regard to dam repair.

Madam Speaker, repair and maintenance basically mean the same thing.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I can only state that the proposal is accepted. We should be able to take a fact-finding mission to Chadiza.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Roan, with the fact-finding mission, you still want to ask questions? Why can we not wait for them to go?

You may proceed.

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask a question, and I welcome you back.

Laughter

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chadiza has actually indicated that he is very concerned. He has clearly indicated that people use the same dams for crop irrigation and watering animals. Now, I am worried because out of the twenty-one dams, only six are functional at the moment. Are there any urgent measures to help the people of Chadiza to ensure their animals are always watered and do not die?

Madam Speaker: Now, when you talk about watering animals, I am getting confused.

Laughter

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, according to what is in the budget for next year, there is only K419,000. I do appreciate that this amount is not adequate for any rehabilitation works that will be required. At the end of it all, from the fact-finding mission, we should be able to come up with a revised budget and work plan so that we can service the people of Chadiza.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Zulu: Madam Speaker, I think, earlier this year, the hon. Minister presented a Ministerial Statement and mentioned a good number of dams to be rehabilitated, and dams in Chadiza and Nyimba were on that list.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister knows that the Eastern Province is a dry land. We do not have rivers that run throughout the year, and that is the reason we cry for dams. The hon. Minister may also agree that the Eastern Province is second in this country in terms of cattle keeping, even without pasture or enough water. So, I want to ask the hon. Minister a very simple question. He has assured the people of Zambia, including those of Chadiza and Nyimba, that dams will be repaired before December 2025. How many have been repaired, so that the people of Chadiza and Nyimba can appreciate them? Our lifeline is water, but we do not have it in the province.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nyimba, this was a constituency-specific question. Now you are asking how many dams have been repaired in the whole country. The Acting hon. Minister might be taken by surprise. Why not file in your own question, if you want that issue addressed? I do not know if the hon. Minister can answer the question. I will give him a chance to speak for himself.

The Acting hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, you may proceed.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, in my initial statement, I indicated that there could be a misunderstanding or misuse of the word “maintenance.” The word could involve just cutting grass around the dam. That does not mean repair. So, repair and maintenance, in my opinion, are two different things. The question was on maintenance; we are doing maintenance at the moment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: By cutting the grass around.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress.

Hon. Member for Kalabo Central, you may proceed.

Mr Chaatila indicated dissent.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, I need your protection.

Madam Speaker: You have the full protection of the Presiding Officer.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Moomba is threatening me.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Moomba, please, keep away from my brother.

Laughter

KALABO DISTRICT YOUTH RESOURCE CENTER CONSTRUCTION

106. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts:

when the construction of the Kalabo District Youth Resource Center in Kalabo District will resume;

at what percentage of completion, the project was, as of August 2025;

why the project has stalled; and

what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts is too quiet. I did not realise he was in the House.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Laughter

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Art (Mr Nkandu): Madam Speaker, let me also join those who are welcoming you back. I know that my yellow card has expired. So, I thank you very much for coming back.

Laughter

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to note that the resumption of the project in question is dependent on the assessment report of the Kalabo Youth Resource Centre, from the engineers under the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Mr Kafwaya: Question!

Laughter

Mr Nkandu: So, it is dependent on that assessment by the engineers.

In this regard, I wish to inform the House that my ministry is indeed, working in collaboration with the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. Through the Engineering Department, it is going to undertake the assessment exercise of the Kalabo Resource Centre, in Western Province, in December. So, the assessment will be done next month. In fact, that would have been done last year, but we failed due to logistical issues. Officers from the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts and the Ministry Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development will be going to Kalabo to develop a fresh Bill of Quantities (BoQ) and re-engage the contractor to pave way for the next step.

Madam Speaker, the project is at 15 per cent. The project that started around 2012 and 2013, was supposed to be completed by 2014. However, typical of the people on your left, they abandoned the projects. You can imagine that that project was supposed to be completed in 2014. Money was paid to the contractor but it was not seen where it went. The project was stalled because of the erratic funding by the previous Government, whose members are on your left.

Hon. UPND Members: PF!

Mr Kampyongo: On a Point of Order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Sorry, hon. Minister.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shang – Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, what is the Point of Order?

Laughter

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I know you may want to transfer me to Shangombo, but my constituency is Shiwang’andu.

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order –

Madam Speaker: That just confirms that we are one. (inaudible)

Mr Kampyongo: Correct, especially with the new cousinship.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Very true, Madam Speaker. With the new cousinship, we are very happy and interested.

Madam Speaker, my Point of Order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 71 which states that the information we render to this august House must be factual and verifiable.

Madam Speaker, I have been sitting here trying to listen to the hon. Minister as he is giving responses to the hon. Member, who has posed a very important question. The hon. Minister has been in office for more than four years, and he will be getting retired next year.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: Is that verifiable?

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, that one is verifiable. At least, 12^th August, 2026, is on the calendar.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, was he in order to insinuate that we, on this side of the House (left side), who are from the previous Government, whose story should have been closed by now because people are not interested any more to hear who did what or when –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: The hon. Minister is insinuating that money was paid to the contractor, but as a responsible hon. Minister, he does not know where that money went, when he has all the records at his disposal. He knows the contract obligations and how they are executed. Is he in order to further insinuate that all projects that were undertaken under his ministry were not completed when all the stadia he goes to were completed before he became a minister?

Madam Speaker, is he in order to continue on that trajectory when the people of Zambia want him to give them a list of what he has achieved in the last four years since he became minister?

I seek your serious, really.

Madam Speaker: I believe the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu has sufficiently debated the point of order. Let us just make progress. It will not assist us. The project started in 2012, 2013, and today, we are in 2025, but nothing has been done and yet, the people of Kalabo are still waiting.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I was at part (d) of the question before I was rudely–

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: On a Point of Order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: No, let us not–

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members! I think let us concentrate on work. Let us not personalise issues.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I wanted to say that before I was interrupted-

Madam Speaker: Yes! Maybe, the hon. Minister can withdraw the word, “rudely.”

Mr Nkandu: I withdraw, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. You may proceed.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I just want to also tell the nation that I am from awarding boxers, squash and rugby players with medals, something that never happened before.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, people need to understand that sport is not only about football, but every discipline in sport.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: So, we have done extremely well than they did in their ten-year rule.

Madam Speaker, the timeframe of the project will be availed when a fresh BoQ is prepared. We will be informed when the decision will be made by both my ministry and the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. That is when we will be able to tell when the project will be completed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, this is a time when I feel humanity is being disturbed. I do not know, but you will forgive me, hon. Minister. Sometimes, I do not get – If I had known, I would have requested that this question be put on hold. This is a continuous, repeated question with a number of responses. Will I be allowed to request a re-engagement, because if I were to check the Hansard of this institution for what the hon. Minister has said, he would also question. I hope the hon. Minister was not in the House on that particular day. The former hon. Minister of Information and Media attended to this question. If he can give me time, I can search the Hansard, and bring the response. Can you allow me? Am I allowed? I do not know how much time you will give me. I will check the Hansard, and bring the response that was given by Hon. Chushi Kasanda when she was the Minister of Information and Media. Maybe, that will help.

Madam Speaker: Just ask supplementary questions. Other engagements can be done outside the House.

Mr Miyutu: Yes. I understand, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, we are making a new covenant, which the hon. Minister is committing to. Kalabo District has a population of 111,000. Out of that, there are about 58,000 males and 52,000 plus females. The majority are youths who should be engaged skilfully to avoid having junkies on the streets. The more the Government delays, the more the number of junkies or youths who have nothing to do rises. So, today is 27^th November –

Madam Speaker: It is the 25^th.

Mr Miyutu: Today is the 26^th.

Madam Speaker: 26^th.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that it will be done in December, and we are just four days away from December. Is the hon. Minister able to give me the date so that I can wait for him or the engineers? I will be there.

Madam Speaker: The best is to not wait, but go with the hon. Minister.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I appreciate how passionate the hon. Member is about young people. If the hon. Member remembers, one time I told him that we would be travelling to Kalabo to check what had been done. The K4 million was given to that particular contractor, but nothing was done, and we do not even know where the money was taken. I had engaged the hon. Member, and told him that we would be travelling to Kalabo. I also said that because of logistical problems, we could not move. When I say logistical problems, many things are involved, maybe, the engineers were not ready at the time, or other issues. However, I am very confident that next month, we, together with the engineers, will travel to Kalabo to assess the situation. Then, we will come up with the bill of quantity (BoQ).

Madam Speaker, I would also like to state that it is not only the people of Kalabo who would like a resource centre, young people are everywhere, and the Government is providing skills development for them. So, it is important to have resource centres or training centres so that our young people can acquire skills. I understand the hon. Member’s frustration. As I said, typical of our hon. Colleagues, we would not be talking about these things today, as they would have been sorted out in 2014. Someone would want to stand on top of the mountain, claiming to be an angel, yet is part of the people who brought these issues upon us.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

Madam Speaker, allow me to begin by stating that Roan Constituency is one of the beneficiaries of youth resource centres, and works equally stalled. From the time I came to the National Assembly, I have been engaging the hon. Minister outside this House. I have followed him to his office, and I am glad that he has given me his attention. He sent people to look at the resource centre. I am sure that, currently, things are moving. A new bill of quantity (BoQ) will be prepared so that the works can commence.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Kalabo Central, I would like to find out something from the hon. Minister. The hon. Minister has said that the contract was signed in 2012, and that the works stalled in 2014. How many interim payment certificates (IPCs) did the contractor submit to the ministry, and how much was paid, and the cost of the contract?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, indeed, the Government is making progress in Roan Constituency on that important infrastructure. The total contract sum is K23,958,343.50. This would have been a good modern infrastructure, and I believe it will be. We will ensure that the resource centre is built.

Madam Speaker, the ministry only received one interim payment certificate (IPC) amounting to K4,477,978.40. However, if you visit the site, you would find that, maybe, one or two structures, such as the slab and foundation, were built, and the contract was given to a company called Almat Contractors Zambia Limited. The contractor produced the IPC, and he was given the money. When one looks at the money that was given and the work that was done, it is a sad story. The hon. Member can attest to that. That is why I am referring to some people because they also need to understand that the past will always feed the present, and the present will also feed the future. Sometimes, people become incensed, especially when we refer to them. The Government is trying to do something correctly so that we do not go back to such things.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: In view of the fact that there is a planned trip to Kalabo, should we continue asking questions, or we allow them to travel so that they can find out what is on the ground?

Mr Miyutu indicated assent.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Kalabo Central is agreeable. We can make progress.

Welcome the hon. Member for Lunte to the Front Bench.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: I have not seen him there in a long time. This is a good indication.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

NUMBER OF TEACHERS TRANSFERRED FROM KANCHIBIYA DISTRICT

107. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Education:

how many teachers were transferred from Kanchibiya to other districts, while maintaining their pay points under Kanchibiya District, as of June 2025; and

what measures are being taken to ensure that teachers who are transferred from one district to another vacate the pay points immediately so as to be taken up by replacements.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that as of June, 2025, a total of eighty-seven teachers who were transferred from Kanchibiya District to other districts were still drawing their salaries from the Kanchibiya pay point.

Madam Speaker, the Government has instituted several measures to ensure that teachers who are transferred from one district to another vacate their original pay point promptly, thereby creating space for their replacement. These include:

Reinforcement of Exchange-Based Transfers

Madam Speaker, to reduce staffing gaps that disproportionately affect some schools, such as those in Kanchibiya, the ministry is encouraging exchange-based transfers. This approach ensures that when a teacher is moved out of a rural station, for example, in Kanchibiya, another teacher is moved in concurrently, thereby maintaining the staffing levels and minimising payroll distortions.

Mandatory Payroll Migration at Assumption of Duty

Madam Speaker, provincial and district education boards have been directed to initiate payroll migration immediately upon a teacher reporting to the new duty station. This ensures that teachers are placed on the correct pay point at the earliest available payroll window, instead of waiting for multiple cycles that may take several months. This measure is intended to prevent teachers from remaining linked to their former payroll points.

Strengthen District-Level Human Resources and Payroll Controls

Madam Speaker, in some districts, such as Kanchibiya, District Education Board Secretaries (DEBS) and human resources officers are required to earmark payroll positions and verify the physical reporting of teachers before allocating those positions. This process safeguards against delays and prevents multiple teachers from being linked to the same payroll slot.

Transfers to be Effected Only Where Vacancies Exist

Madam Speaker, the ministry is encouraging that transfers be effected only where a substantive vacancy exists at the receiving station. This requires co-ordination between districts to ensure that transfers are not executed in isolation and will not undermine the staffing levels of other schools.

Madam Speaker, these measures are designed to protect the staffing capacity of some districts, prevent payroll distortions and ensure that teachers posted to underserved areas, such as Kanchibiya, are properly supported and duly captured on their correct payrolls.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members. Let us tone down. There are too many discussions going on. Let us focus on listening to the questions and answers.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, thank you so much and allow me to thank the hon. Minister for his response.

Madam Speaker, as the hon. Minister indicated, the number of teachers who have been transferred from Kanchibiya, but still maintain their pay points under Kanchibiya, is quite huge. We have a situation where teachers who have been moved to Kanchibiya, some of them have been there for four years, five years or even longer, yet they do not get their hardship allowances or their settling-in allowances, but more so, for those who must be promoted. People have been in acting positions for very long periods. Is there a timeframe that the ministry is attaching to the exercise of ensuring that teachers in Kanchibiya can get their correct pay points, and that those who must be promoted and still in acting positions can be confirmed in their positions?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, this is a slightly different question altogether, but we are looking into that issue. It is a legacy problem, but I think that the unions and the ministry formed a committee to ameliorate all those problems, which are actually a legacy issue.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has confirmed that there are some teachers who moved from Kanchibiya, possibly with their Payroll Management and Establishment Control (PMEC) numbers. Does the ministry intend to conduct a PMEC audit so that it can separate them, because such issues are still happening, not only in Kanchibiya, but in many other places? Does the hon. Minister intend to conduct a PMEC audit so that he can separate those who have moved from those who have remained in Kanchibiya on the required establishment? This would ensure that Kanchibiya correctly reflects the teachers who are on the PMEC establishment, and those who have moved should be placed where their PMEC numbers are supposed to be.

Mr Syakalima: Indeed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: In other words, the hon. Minister is agreeable to the hon. Member’s suggestion.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, mine is just to take advantage of the issue of transfers. The New Dawn Government came up with a policy of couples living together. One of the biggest problems that we have had when people are looking for employment in the teaching service is that they would apply in an area where they think the competition will not be so much, and they would get selected. For example, I have miners whose wives are in Gwembe, Kalabo and so on and so forth. Going by the explanation that the hon. Minister has made, I hope that the policy of couples living together is still being upheld. Why do we still have such cases around the issue of pay points when the New Dawn Administration‘s policy is that couples should be living together? I ask because I still receive complaints about issues with pay points, which prevent teachers from moving. Therefore, it defies the good policy that the New Dawn Government came up with, which is that couples should be together.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for that question.

Madam Speaker, yes, the policy is still there, except for what the hon. Member has said. Many people were trying to apply where they thought they could get a vacancy. However, if you check, after we had initially advertised for 30,000 teachers, because we had allocated that number of teachers to Chibombo, people applied massively in Chibombo so that they would be given a slot. Immediately, they went there and they applied again to join their spouses. That is where the problem was. Otherwise, we have indicated that if one signs up for teaching, one has to stay at that particular school for four years without asking for a transfer. Again, if a person brings a marriage certificate, in rare circumstances, especially for those who bring medical reports from doctors, they are considered. However, what we have started doing now is different. This is because people would go to a hospital, get a doctor’s stamp on a report, and then bring it. Some of them were not even authentic. So, we have to press again to get back to that hospital and that clinical officer or doctor and ask if they examined the person. It is a tedious process anyway.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, let me take the hon. Minister back to the issue of the rural hardship allowance and the implications this scenario has had on teachers. I know very well that he is as hardworking as his neighbour, the hon. Minister for Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. I do not think he can fail to resolve this issue in Kanchibiya.

Madam Speaker, I want to ask the hon. Minister what message of comfort is he sending to the teachers in Kanchibiya, particularly those who have moved to Kanchibiya, but still have not gotten their rural hardship allowance. What mechanism is the Government putting in place, considering that Kanchibiya is a remote district? Some of those who have left, in fact, the majority, if not all, have gone to districts that are not as remote as Kanchibiya, and they continue to disadvantage those who have remained in Kanchibiya. What is the Government’s intervention for our teachers who have not received their rural hardship allowances for so many years?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member can assure the teachers that they will receive the hardship allowance. What we have actually indicated to all schools and districts is that when they transfer people, immediately they are supposed to pay the people the hardship allowance. For example, if someone from Kanchibiya is transferred to a school in an urban area, that person should immediately stop getting the hardship allowance. Instead, the allowance should be given to the person who is in Kanchibiya.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, I wish to ask a question regarding the issue of transfers. I would like to know what incentives the ministry is trying to introduce to ensure that teachers in rural areas can comfortably continue teaching there, knowing fully that the reason people give for moving to urban areas is that conducive conditions are in urban areas. What incentives is the ministry introducing to ensure that we can maintain our hardworking teachers in rural areas?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, obviously one of them is the already existing rural hardship allowance. Beyond that, there is accommodation. The hon. Member has used the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to build nice houses for teachers. So, he has helped the Government to motivate our teachers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PLANS TO ASSIST FARMERS TO COMMERCIALISE LIVESTOCK FARMING IN WESTERN PROVINCE

108. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

whether the Government has any plans to assist farmers to commercialise livestock farming in the Western Province;

if so, when the plans will be implemented;

whether the plans include the following livestock;

goats;
pigs; and
sheep; and

if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, sincere apologies, I will read the response from my phone. I understand that the hard copy is on its way to Parliament.

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that my ministry has established clearly documented plans to commercialise livestock farming in the Western Province, including Kalabo Central. These plans support all major livestock species and aim to help small holder farmers transition to profitable enterprises through improved veterinary services, infrastructure, restocking and access to finance. A key focus is on linking farmers to sustainable markets and promoting value addition to enhance rural development, job creation and food security.

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that …

Mr Mulusa handed a document to Mr Kapala.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapala: Thank you.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the implementation of Government’s livestock commercialisation programme in the Western Province is currently underway. However, due to limited fiscal space, the roll out is being conducted in a phased and strategic manner to ensure sustainability and impact.

Madam Speaker, I wish to confirm to the House that Government’s livestock commercialisation plan in the Western Province does, indeed, include goats, pigs and sheep. While the current phase of implementation prioritises the cattle or beef value chain being piloted in the Southern Province, the Western Province, the Central Province and the Eastern Province, the broader strategy encompasses all major livestock species. The cattle focus phase is designed to tap into regional markets, such as Angola and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), leveraging Zambia’s comparative advantage in beef production. However, parallel interventions targeting goats, pigs and sheep are actively being implemented through partnerships with co-operating institutions. For instance, the ministry, in collaboration with the Food and Agricultural Organisation (FAO), Deutsche Gesellschaft für Internationale Zusammenarbeit (GIZ) and other partners is supporting initiatives aimed at boosting production and productivity of small luminates and pigs. Notably, FAO is currently implementing a project to supply 4,000 goats and 2,000 chickens in Nalolo District, Gwembe and Sinazongwe. This intervention is laying the foundation for future commercialisation of goat and poultry production, with a similar model being considered for pigs and sheep. These efforts are part of the Government’s commitment to inclusive livestock development, ensuring that the farmers across the Western Province benefit from diversified and commercially viable livestock enterprises.

Madam Speaker, I wish to assure the House that the Government has indeed developed comprehensive and inclusive plans to support the commercialisation of livestock farming in the Western Province. These plans are part of the broader national strategy aimed at transforming the livestock sector into a vibrant, sustainable and economically viable industry.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his response.

Madam Speaker, the Government will undertake a phased approach to enhance cattle husbandry. How many phases are there in the phased approach?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, sorry about this this. I have just received the printed version of my response. I will add to what I earlier said so that the hon. Member can follow our full response.

Madam Speaker, to promote livestock investment commercialisation in the Western Province the Government has undertaken and planned the following key interventions:

Abattoir and Cold Chain Facilities

The Government is spearheading initiatives to strengthen the beef value chain by supporting the construction of modern abattoirs in Sikongo and Sioma. This development is being implemented through a partnership between the Government, the private sector and the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). The facilities will feature advanced cold storage units to ensure proper meat preservation, maintain high processing standards and promote food safety. This investment is expected to boast beef trade, reduce post-harvest losses and create economic opportunities for local communities

Regional Laboratory and Vaccine Cold Room Facilities

The Government has constructed a regional laboratory in Mongu, which includes a dedicated cold room facility for vaccines storage. This strategic investment will enhance early detection and response to livestock diseases, thereby safeguarding the beef value chain and supporting food security. The project is progressing well, with construction works currently about 90 per cent complete.

Road Infrastructure for Export Promotion

In the coming year, the Government will construct a road from Tapo in Kalabo to Situlu Border Post in Sikongo to facilitate the export of beef and other livestock products to Angola.

Artificial Insemination Facilities

An artificial insemination facility has been established at Kalabo Farmer Training Centre (FTC) to improve livestock genetics and enhance productivity.

Construction of Livestock Service Centres

The Government is constructing livestock service centres in Sesheke, which comprises a tier 1 crash pen and deep tank to provide farmers with essential services such as animal health care, extension support and breeding facilities.

Establishment of a Cattle Ranch

A cattle ranch is being revamped in Shangombo to serve as a nucleus for breeding and multiplication of improved livestock breeds.

Re-establishment of the Cordon Line

The Government is undertaking measures to re-establish the Cordon Line as a critical strategy for controlling livestock movement and preventing the spread of transboundary animal disease between Zambia and Angola. This initiative is aimed at safeguarding animal health, protecting the beef value chain, and ensuring compliance with veterinary standards. Currently, consultations with key stakeholders are ongoing to ensure that the implementation process is inclusive, effective and sustainable. Once finalised, the cordon line will serve as a vital biosecurity measure to enhance disease surveillance and containment across affected regions.

Access to Finance and Inputs

Madam Speaker, to empower livestock farmers and boost productivity, the Government is facilitating access to affordable credit and essential inputs through targeted programmes such as the Enhanced Small Livestock Investment Programme (ESLIP) and the Sustainable Agriculture Financing Facility (SAFF). These initiatives, implemented in collaboration with financial institutions, aim to provide farmers with the resources needed to scale up production, adopt improved livestock breeds, and invest in quality feed and veterinary services. By improving access to finance and inputs, the Government seeks to strengthen the livestock value chain, enhancing food security and create sustainable economic opportunities for small-holder farmers.

Extension Services and Capacity Building

The ministry has strengthened extension services to provide farmers with technical knowledge on modern livestock management practices, disease prevention and value addition. Training programmes are being conducted to equip farmers with the skills necessary for commercial operations.

Market Linkages and Value Chain Development

Madam Speaker, the Government is actively promoting livestock value chain development by linking farmers to reliable markets and encouraging investment in processing facilities for beef, dairy, and other livestock products. This approach ensures that farmers not only produce, but also benefit from value addition, improved prices and greater market competitiveness. To further strengthen the beef value chain, the Government is developing disease-free beef compartments in Western Province starting with Limulunga, Senanga, Mongu, and Mwandi districts.

Madam Speaker, these compartments will enhance disease control, improve compliance with international standards and open up premium markets for the Zambian beef. These interventions form part of the broader Government strategy to transform the livestock sector into a commercially viable industry that contributes to food security, job creation and economic growth. The Government remains committed to working closely with all stakeholders to achieve this goal. To this effect, a team led by the Permanent Secretary was dispatched to re-emphasise these priorities and ensure effective implementation.

Madam Speaker, as stated, these livestock development programmes are already being implemented and are ongoing. Therefore, the question of when they will be implemented does not arise.

Madam Speaker, the Government is already implementing livestock development for the following livestock species.

Goat Production

My ministry has supported 2,374 farmers in goat production in Western Province, contributing to improved livelihoods and food security.

The Constituency Development Fund (CDF)

Madam Speaker, 188 farmers access loans and grants for goat production between 2022 and 2025, strengthening the climate resilience of agricultural livelihoods in agro-ecological regions, one and two in Zambia. Forty goats were stocked for twenty farmers in 2020. Further, 1,642 goats were distributed through the Catholic Church. The Ministry of Community Development and Social Services is scaling up nutrition, and teachers' response against child abuse.

Pigs and Sheep Production

Currently, there is no dedicated Government programme for restocking pigs and sheep in the Western Province. While there have been previous efforts such as the pilot programme for climate resilience implemented in 2021, the outcomes were limited and did not achieve the desired impact.

Madam Speaker, the Government is reviewing lessons from these initiatives to inform future strategies aimed at diversifying livestock production and improving resilience among farmers. Any new interventions will be designed to ensure sustainability, inclusivity and measurable benefits for smallholder farmers.

Madam Speaker, the Government has clearly demonstrated its commitment to scaling up livestock farming as a viable and inclusive livelihood option for communities in the Western Province. As such, the question of there being no plans does not arise.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hn. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. That was a comprehensive answer. Hon. Member for Kalabo Central, would you like to ask another question?

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker, I am sure the response has been comprehensive. I think it is normal–

The hon. Minister talked about artificial insemination services being locally available in the district. Does the hon. Minister have data to show that the service is offered or it is a measure which is about to be implemented?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, what is on record in my ministry is that at Kalabo Farmer Training Centre, that service is being provided.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us make progress. The hon. Member for Matero can take the Floor.

Mr Sampa interjected.

Madam Speaker: Why are you complaining? You are called upon and you are complaining. Maybe, I skip you.

Laughter

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, thank you. I am most humbled.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kalabo Central for the question. As the hon. Member has indicated, the future of the Western Province lies in the commercialising what is produced naturally from crops like cashew nuts, and animals like cows, goats and sheep.

Madam Speaker, my question is a rider on the question that has been asked by my borrowed tribal cousin. We have established a relationship. Among the animals that have been mentioned, there is one particular animal that is a delicacy, which can sell well outside the Western Province. It can also be exported. Is the hon. Minister considering commercialising an animal called opani?

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Madam Speaker: I am sure he tasted some hopani meat.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker, I would also like to thank Hon. Sampa for that interesting question. As of now, we need to consult with the hon. Minister of Tourism, seated next to me, so that we could get permission to start commercialising the keeping of this particular animal.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Zulu (Nyimba): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has answered a good number of questions through the Ministerial Statement he has presented.

Madam Speaker, according to the hon. Minister, there are issues with the fiscal space. So, the Government cannot commercialise at the rate that it wants to. He has also said that some money has been allocated within the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to see to it that goat rearing is commercialised. Using the CDF to empower the locals has been difficult in the sense that the money allocated for goat rearing is usually given to clubs, which have thirty or twenty members in number, which is also a good idea.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister sits next to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, whose ministry deals with issues related to the CDF. In fact, this is a request, not a question. Can the hon. Minister sit down with the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to see to it that people are given loans under the CDF to commercialise their small goat or cattle ranches, and be given longer periods, not two-month periods, in which to pay back. Those of us who keep animals know how long it takes to produce an animal. A goat breeds twice in a year, if you are lucky, and a cow, maybe, once a year. Instead of waiting for the good policies of the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries, is it possible to tap into the CDF so our people can be given enough money to commercialise, especially those in areas like Luapula, where there is good pasture, and Chifunabuli? Although our friends’ animals turn into wild animals, they can still commercialise those areas. So, is the hon. Minister able to speak to his counterpart?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the suggestion is well noted. We will look into that.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: In view of the fact that we are now making suggestions, I think, it is time to make progress. We still have a lot of work on the Order Paper.

_______

MOTION

REGULATE THE CONDUCT OF FUNERALS FOR SITTING AND FORMER HEADS OF THE THREE ARMS OF GOVERNMENT

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to regulate the conduct of funerals for the sitting and former heads of the three arms of Government, that is, the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, we are looking at two types of funerals undertaken by the Government, that is, state and official funerals. A state funeral is a public funeral ceremony invoked by the Head of State to honour an eminent individual who served the country with distinction. An official funeral is a public funeral ceremony invoked by the Head of State to honour an eminent individual, but is observed with reduced protocols. The day of national mourning is observed on the day of the burial.

Madam Speaker, I went further to look at other jurisdictions such as South Africa and Uganda. The Government of the Republic of South Africa published the State, Official and Provincial Official Funeral Policy Manual, outlining the protocols and stipulations for state and official funerals across various categories of public officials. The manual describes different categories of funerals commensurate with the status of the deceased figures and identifies key players, structures and processes. It also identifies and sets out the whole process in detail, from the moment the demise is announced to the burial or cremation. A key feature of the manual is the differentiation of categories of funerals, with each accorded a particular status by the President in consultation with the Cabinet, for example, state funeral category 1 and state funeral category 2. Funerals under the state category 1 entail full honours, and apply to the President, President-Elect, and Former Presidents. The state funeral category 2 applies to the Deputy and Acting Presidents, and Former Deputies. The official funeral category 1 has fewer honours, but is still formal, and includes the Chief Justice, Speaker of the National Assembly, the National Council of Provinces (NCOP) Chairperson, and Ministers. The official funeral category 2 applies to the Deputy Chief Justice and Deputy Speaker.

Madam Speaker, Uganda also has the legal framework, that is, the 1995 Constitution and the Parliamentary Pensions Act, as amended, alongside the Administration of the Judiciary Act, 2020, which govern the conduct of state funerals for eminent office holders, who include the President, Vice-President, Speaker and Deputy Speaker of Parliament, Chief Justice and the Deputy Chief Justice, as well as current and former holders of these positions. The Public Service Ministry has provided five funeral categories under the policy, with each office bearer aligned to a corresponding package. The provisions aim to bind the Government to incur all expenses related to the funerals or burials of eligible persons, excluding the international transfer of remains unless the deceased died while on official duty. The expenditure includes burial costs, such as grave construction or cremation and casket costs, and service-related expenses, including the printing of the order of service.

Madam Speaker, in the Zambian context, the legal framework and policy guiding state funerals for the sitting and former Heads of the Executive are:

the Former President Act No. 40 of 1993;

legal precedent – (The People v Secretary to the Cabinet Ex Parte Kaweche Kaunda (2021); and

Cabinet Office circulars, as well as the draft operational guidelines on state and official functions.

Madam Speaker, it must, however, be noted that the administrative precedent has also been used to guide the management of state and official funerals, especially for the Legislature and the Judiciary.

Madam Speaker, despite the fact that we have these precedents and protocols, the operational challenges and gaps within the current policy framework have been identified. The current policy framework relies on precedents and administrative discretion. This presents a number of operational challenges and gaps because there is currently no single statute that is definitive and addresses matters related to the handling of funerals for current and former heads of the three arms of Government. In addition, the current legal framework is insufficient to address some challenges that may arise in the course of hosting such state funerals. This insufficiency in the law was demonstrated during the funeral of Former President Dr Kenneth Kaunda and the impasse surrounding the funeral of Former President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, the Sixth Republican President. The current impasse, in which the former Head of State’s body has remained unburied for about five to six months now, has exposed us as a country and highlights the serious need for a clear legal framework to ensure that we do not find ourselves in such a situation again. While the Government’s protocols exist, the consent of the family is typically sought, though it is not legally binding. It should be established in law that once an individual aspires and is eventually elected as the Head of State, he/she no longer falls solely under the authority of the family. This would serve as automatic consent that upon their death, the family would not have decision-making powers and the State would take precedence in handling all funeral arrangements.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Katakwe: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, it is important that we move this Motion, and I second it. As a country, we are where we are today, and the lessons we have learnt have taught us things that we need to observe.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to second this important Private Member’s Motion. Allow me, at the outset, to thank Hon. Monty Chinkuli, Member of Parliament for Kanyama Constituency, for ably articulating the Motion.

Madam Speaker, there is a need for a legal and policy framework for the Government to regulate funerals of the sitting and former heads of the Legislature, Executive and Judiciary. Why is this important? It is important for the following reasons:

Legal Clarity and Certainty

Madam Speaker, currently, there is no binding statute in Zambia that explicitly governs State funerals for former Heads of State or heads of the Legislature, the Judiciary and so on and so forth. As noted by many, what exists is simply a ‘gentleman’s offer’. A specific law would formalise protocol, reducing ambiguity about who has the final say between the family and the State, preventing future disputes.

Public Interest and National Cohesion

Madam Speaker, State funerals are not just symbolic. They are a matter of public interest. In the recent South African court ruling, Zambia argued and won that the former President’s personal wishes may be overridden if national public interest requires a State funeral. Such occasions can serve as moments of national unity, allowing citizens to collectively grieve, reflect and celebrate the legacy of a national leader. The Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) has emphasised that citizens have a legitimate interest in mourning and honouring a former Head of State.

Avoidance of Judicial and Diplomatic Disputes

Madam Speaker, the dispute surrounding the burial of the former President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, demonstrates the risks of the status quo. His body has remained legally held in South Africa, and his family has objected to a State funeral and burial in Zambia. A clear legal framework would reduce the likelihood of cross-border legal disputes or battles, as is in this case, by spelling out the State’s rights and responsibilities well in advance.

Cost Control and Transparency

Madam Speaker, without legislation, the costs of the funeral, repatriation, logistics, national mourning and so on and so forth may be negotiated on an ad-hoc basis. A law sets standards, norms or caps, ensuring taxpayers are not exposed to unpredictable or inflated expenses. Having a legal framework can improve accountability. If expenditures are laid out in law, Parliament can audit and scrutinise them.

Preservation of National Heritage and Continuity

Madam Speaker, the funerals of national leaders are part of Zambia’s national heritage. A law would institutionalise how we memorialise those who have led the country, providing continuity, dignity and respect in line with Government protocols. It can also mandate a central burial place, for example, the Embassy Park, which the Pretoria Court referenced as a legal or legally appropriate location.

Prevention of Politicisation and Family-State Conflict

Madam Speaker, with a legal framework, the Government could reduce the risk of political feuds over funerals, as seen during the Sixth President’s funeral, where family wishes clashed with State protocols. By establishing that the wishes of a late President, or his or her family, yield to the requirement that deceased Heads of State be accorded a state funeral, the law would prioritise the common good over partisan or personal disputes.

Balancing Family Rights with State Duty

Madam Speaker, while the family should be respected, the State also has a duty to its citizens to honour national leaders in a manner befitting their service. A law could create mechanisms for family consultations. For instance, giving the family input, but not absolute veto, ensuring that a family is involved, but the State retains ultimate authority in the interest of national dignity.

International Reputation and Diplomatic Respect

Madam Speaker, by having a clear and dignified legal process for State funerals, Zambia signals to the world that it treats its leaders with respect and has institutional capacity. This is also valuable diplomatically, since funerals tend to involve foreign dignitaries. It can help avoid embarrassing legal standoffs abroad when a Head of State dies outside Zambia. For example, the issue of the late former Sixth President, which ended up in a foreign court.

Madam Speaker, it is important that we, as Zambians, set our own standards and laws to avoid the situation we have found ourselves in.

Madam Speaker, with these few remarks, I beg to second the Motion.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

Mr Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, many times, we, as Parliamentarians, come up with laws for others, such as the Executive, but we do not do the same for ourselves. I think it is high time we also looked at issues like these for ourselves. I appeal to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanyama to move a Motion concerning Parliamentarians.

Madam Speaker, today, as a country, we are going through a lot. I have been privileged to attend sessions at the Pan-African Parliament (PAP), and questions have been coming up in our group about what is happening in our country. I am asked, “Is it that you, Parliamentarians in Zambia, cannot come up with a law? Where were you before this happened?” The main question is: Why wait for something to happen when it can be prevented from happening? Today, the country is grappling with issues related to the burial of the former Sixth President. He is not the first President we have buried in this country. We buried former President F. J. T. Chiluba, President Levy Mwanawasa, President Michael Chilufya Sata and President Rupiah Banda. All these were Presidents, but we never had issues.

Madam Speaker, over the burial of our First President, Dr Kenneth Kaunda, an issue similar to the one we have today arose. If I am not mistaken, the High Court passed a judgment, and a direction was given. The little knowledge I have is that when a judgment is given, it becomes law. So, the issue between the family and the Government over the burial of President Kenneth Kaunda was resolved and the burial went on smoothly, without any issues.

Madam Speaker, even if I have a problem with Bembas, they say, Ushumfwa –

Mr Mulebwa: You are not Bemba, iwe!

Mr Kampyongo: Ikalafye.

Mr Zulu: Sorry, Madam Speaker. I think, what I wanted to say is gone. I needed to say something. In my language, we say, “Kuliye muntu oyopa imfa, tonse tikafwe,” meaning that all of us are going to die, so no one should be scared of death.

Madam Speaker, regarding what we are discussing today, please, people should not misunderstand the issue that the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanyama has brought. As a nation, we cannot be embarrassed like this. This Parliament needs to come up with a law. We should have strict instructions on how we are going to conduct funerals. We cannot take away family from any discussion on burials. However, family should also understand that when somebody is elected as Head of State, that person becomes state property; he does not belong to family alone. So, my plea to everyone here is, let us support this Motion by the hon. Member for Kanyama.

Madam Speaker, sorry, I have already said mwambi, which is a proverb. You are not family property, neither am I. I am now property of the people of Nyimba. When I die, the people of Nyimba should make a decision on where to bury me, and the same should apply to the President, hon. Ministers and Chief Justices. We need to come up with legislation on this matter. The problem is that we take time to act on things which are important, and we act on things which are not very important. This issue, now chatipeza, meaning that we are now confronted with the issue. What is it that we are doing about it?

Madam Speaker, I urge the hon. Minister of Justice to look at this issue before we adjourn this Meeting so that when one of us here becomes President in future, we should not have issues with burials. All of us will die one day, so we should not have issues with burials. My plea is that the hon. Minister of Justice should come up with a law on this as soon as possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much for keeping time.

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me a chance to debate this Motion, on behalf of the people of Kafulafuta.

Madam Speaker, I recognise the fact that Zambia is a Christian Nation. Therefore, I am going to debate this Motion based on what Christian values dictate. I will say this without shame. I have read the Bible many times, and I have seen how the scriptures address family. Family is one thing that is honourable before God, and it should be honourable in society. I have followed the debate. I am talking about the predicament we have found ourselves with, as a country. My view is that, much as I appreciate what my hon. Member here has said (Pointed at Mr Zulu), the State, obviously, must have a bite of the cherry regarding the funeral of any dignified person in Zambia. It is a good thing. However, I do not think that the State should override the rights of a family. I will back this up with the history that we have had. Maybe, I cannot say that as a country we should do what is written in the scriptures, because it is for our information, but Jacob died in Egypt, and he had instructed the Children of Israel to bury him in the Promised Land. That is what is written. Joseph died in Egypt, and he had instructed the Israelites saying, “When I die, when you go back to the Promised Land, you must carry my body or rather my bones with you and bury them in the Promised Land.”

Madam Speaker, the two examples I have given involve people giving instructions to family members or to the nation. I will concede that this scripture was not given to just a clique of people; it was given to the nation of Israel. So, I will repeat that: surely, the Government must have a bite of the cherry when it comes to the funerals of people in office, but biblically it is wrong for the Government to override the wishes of families, and I say that without shame.

Madam Speaker, I do not want to waste your time. I want to give room to others. I respect the Motion, but I only support it as far as the Government agrees with aggrieved family members. I have been widowed myself. I know how painful it is to lose a loved one, and I am sure that there are many more who know how painful it is to lose a spouse. We do not want anybody to make their pain worse.

With these few words, I wish to disagree with the Motion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity you have given me to add my voice to the debate on this Motion, on behalf of the good people of Kabwata. I am grateful that the hon. Member for Kanyama thought it wise to come up with this Motion.

Madam Speaker, the challenges we have faced, as a nation, are a result of not having legislation. Regulations are supposed to guide people on how they are supposed to make an announcement when a former member of the Executive dies, or when a legislator dies. We need legislation for that. I will back my view with history. Even ancient Jewish culture shows us how kings or rulers were honoured in terms of ceremonial burial rites, and how they were given the rites of tradition. If you look at ancient Greek culture, you will see that it also gave permission for Greek people to do certain things whenever a celebrated leader died. He was supposed to be buried using the law. That is why I support this Motion. We need to come up with regulations that will stop people from going to the courts of law. Regulations will help people do what is right, unlike what we saw in the past. On behalf of the good people of Kabwata, I am saying that even in Roman culture, you will find that there was a ceremonial procession for those who died while being part of the political elite. People were eulogised. People were made to understand that culture is very important.

Madam Speaker, today, we are being embarrassed in our country because we have failed to follow our culture. According to our cultural or traditional set up, if a chief died, there are certain rites that the system within the chiefdom will have to follow. We know that the family is always separated from the event. That is why regulations need to be put in place.

Madam Speaker, for example, the death of a paramount chief should not be announced anyhow. One should not just wake up and say that the paramount chief has died. There is a process that should be followed. Even when it comes to the death of a former Head of State, I believe there should be a system that should be followed to make an announcement. We should put regulations in place. For instance, there should be a regulation that should allow the Secretary to Cabinet or the sitting President to announce the death of the former Head of State. We need to have regulations that will protect not only the state property or a person who dies as former head of state, but also, the family to avoid some of the court cases that have been witnessed in the past. That is why tradition and culture should always be respected.

Madam Speaker, my brother who spoke earlier talked about Christian values. I do not believe that Christian values will support what has happened in the past. We see the things written in the same book that he referred to. We need to honour people because of their positions. That is the reason the same book he was quoting talks about respecting those who are in authority. So, if we are talking about respecting people in authority, we need to also honour them when they depart this world. That is the reason we need regulations. Once we have these regulations, the nation will be guided on how to proceed with the funeral arrangements if, for example, a former Head of State or the former Speaker of the National Assembly died.

Madam Speaker, regulations will guide us as a nation. Without a system that we are talking about, it will be practically impossible to manage funerals. Chakulabafye chipantepante, just kicking from one end to the other. We need a system that will guide us.

Madam Speaker, let me also state that when there are no regulations, especially when the former Heads of State dies, there will be confusion. That is why I am calling upon the Executive to think twice and see how best we can support this Motion that seeks to provide guidance as we move forward. The Sixth Republican President is not the first and last one to die. There are others who will die. So, we need to have regulations that will guide us when we have such funerals. That will enable us move to the next stage.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, the good people of Kabwata support this Motion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Luena, I would like to indicate from the outset that we appreciate the mover of the Motion, the hon. Member for Kanyama and the seconder of the Motion, the hon. Member for Solwezi East.

Madam Speaker, the people of Luena are mindful of the fact that man was not made for the law, but the law was made for man. That means that the law should be there to serve man. We are also in agreement that having a piece of legislation that regulates and guides the conduct of funerals of senior public servants, will provide predictability in the way we honour and dignify our leaders when sending them off.

Madam Speaker, I know that we traditionally shy away from talking about matters of death in Zambia. So, there is a lot of general understanding. It is not only in Government circles, but also in companies that operate with the general understanding of what should be done when there is a funeral. So, when there is a death of an employee, depending on the level of that person, operations can even come to a standstill, especially if that person was the senior most employee of the organisation. When you read the company policies, you will find that beyond a funeral grant, there is nothing else outlined. Now, coming to the public sector and the Government in particular, that cannot be an acceptable way of doing things.

Madam Speaker, is it necessary to have this law so that we can extend this honour and dignity to more officers? In fact, some of these have already been highlighted and therefore, I will not repeat them.

However, I also think that it will make it possible for less discretion to be exercised when it comes to funerals. I suppose there are many official activities allocated to in many unofficial funerals in this country. In many instances, the Government is involved heavily, even when the funeral is undeclared in terms of whether it be classified as a state funeral or an official funeral. So, I support the model that the mover of the Motion proposed, and I think that can be considered in Zambia with regard to what is obtaining in the Republic of South Africa. It is very clear what should happen if a dignitary who has passed on is at district, provincial and national level. That is necessary to avoid lack of clarity in certain circumstances.

Madam Speaker, I do not think the law will eliminate the possibility of disputes because precisely, once there is a law, people will have different interpretations to it. So, there will be disputes, but the disputes will be resolved with reference to that specific law. At the moment, in the absence of such a law is, as we have learnt now, depending on who is sometimes shouting the loudest, opinions begin to sound like they are actually standing in very sound legal principles when in fact, they are just pushing an agenda for one reason or the other.

Madam Speaker, let me also turn to an issue that I think is important, the one that we have now, which is state funerals and the manner of mourning. We have seen in this country that whenever there is a state funeral, for some very strange reasons, radios and televisions stations…

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka: … play what they classify as solemn music from 0600 hours in the morning. I do not know where they got that idea from because there is no law that compels radios or televisions stations in this country to stop their normal broadcasting during the day simply because there is a state funeral. A state funeral can take place but state protocols are the ones to be affected. The flag will be at half mast, but the commercial activities for private citizens …

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Yes.

Mr Anakoka: … should continue undisturbed.

Madam Speaker, radio stations are commercial entities. They have got contracts they have to satisfy. Unfortunately, when there is a state funeral, they abandon all those activities for some reason. I once had an experience. I travelled to attend a wedding for my nephew, but unfortunately, it was during the time the nation was mourning the late President Patrick Levy Mwanawasa, May His Soul Rest in Peace. So, the wedding was cancelled.

Madam Speaker, I did not understand why it was cancelled. However, I understood that everyone was cancelling every activity simply because a period of official mourning was going on. So, I think there is need to use this opportunity to clarify to the citizens that when there is a state funeral, it does not mean that private activities …

Mr Mwiimbu, SC: Hear, hear!

Mr Anakoka: … are also banned. The state will carry out its official mourning activities as prescribed by the law that will be passed. For now, the official mourning is prescribed by the circulars that are issued by the Government but the lives of citizens must continue undisturbed.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I would like to conclude by saying that for that reason, I support the need to have legislative framework that will guide and help the nation handle such painful occasions as and when they occur. Indeed, such occasions will happen, as my colleague earlier said, from time to time. We will experience pain.

I thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the people of Chienge, to contribute to the debate on this important Motion, which is on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, like my hon. Colleague mentioned, I expected that, as Members of Parliament, we would be included in the Motion. We are also very important persons (VIPs). Whenever a former hon. Member of Parliament dies, it is like that person was a nobody, but he or she contributed to the nation. This Motion seems to have some motive behind it, and I think that it is not genuine, because if it were, it would have included hon. Members of Parliament. We are equally assets of the nation.

Madam Speaker: Maybe, just a reminder, hon. Member for Chienge. Hon. Members of Parliament do not debate themselves. So, I do not know how they would have been included in the Motion. Just an observation as you debate. You may proceed.

Mr Sing’ombe: She is a threat!

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I listened to the mover and seconder of the Motion, and I have come to realise that it is about the Former Head of State who passed away, whose remains are still in South Africa. It is important to have some kind of legal framework on how we can give our Former Heads of State their last respects.

Madam Speaker, we have an issue at hand regarding the State House. These are the things we should be talking about. We should also have a legal framework so that when somebody aspires to become the Head of State, he or she knows that he or she is supposed to occupy the State House. If I become President in 2026, I will be flying from Chienge to Lusaka every day because there is no legal obligation or framework that would compel me to occupy the State House. This is one thing that we should look at.

Madam Speaker, talking about the Motion on the Floor of the House, I appreciate the idea that the mover has brought to the House and the nation. Supposing that family members of a deceased former Head of State consider the family burial site where they bury their family members, yet the Government insists otherwise and the family decides to not participate in that funeral process, would that Former Head of State be given a dignified funeral without the family, or would the body be disposed of like an unclaimed body? That is according to my understanding of the mover’s intentions.

Madam Speaker, when we are moving Motions, we should also look at the cultural part. We are Zambians. It would not be fair for this law to be enacted, knowing that it is meant for just that period. We are human beings. Imagine that one becomes a Minister, a judge or whatever, and then when he dies, there is a misunderstanding with his family, whereby the State wants to go ahead with the funeral arrangements, but the wife says that if that is the case, then she will not attend, what would happen? Would the State go ahead to dispose of the body like it were an unclaimed body? Those are the things we should look at. Whenever we want to make a law or do anything, we should look at all these things. I know that this is to help bring the body of the Former Head of State.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: No!

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, what about the feelings of the family? I agree with the hon. Member of Parliament who lost the spouse. It is not an easy thing, especially when you are told that the State will take total control and it insists on doing that, but the spouse refuses. So, when the wife or husband decides to be in charge, we should listen. I want the mover of the Motion to prove to this House and the nation what would be next if the family of a dignitary said no. Would the Government go ahead to bury that person whom they want to give a dignified funeral, which would, of course, become undignified as long as the family is not there? Would that serve any purpose? It would not serve any purpose. It is very important that we do not craft something because there is something else that is taking place.

Madam Speaker, I must say that I appreciate the fact that we all want to see the remains of the Former Head of State who passed away in South Africa brought back home. It is everyone’s prayer. However, when we hear that even if the family will not attend, the State will go ahead, it is unfortunate. Mind you, I am a believer, as well as the hon. Member for Kabwata and others, so we understand the connotations of this thing spiritually. There is no way you can do away with the family. So, when it becomes a law, what happens if the family says that it will not attend?

Madam Speaker: Let me guide, hon. Member for Chienge.

Laws are enacted with the view to apply them in the future, not current situations. So, this Motion is talking about the future. I am just giving guidance so that you can address the Motion from that angle, as you debate. You may proceed.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you.

Madam Speaker, I just want to ask whether, in the future, if any dignitary dies outside the country or within Zambia, like those who are royalty, and the family says that it will bury the deceased where chiefs are buried, and the body has to be covered in a reed mat or other things, would the Government insist on taking control? We are looking at coming up with a law that will address what will happen in the future. I know that we do not debate ourselves, but I am seated next to a future chief, and if he dies, will the Government insist that he was its property, as he was a Minister? Will it happen like that? That is why I have a question about this Motion. It has not been coined nicely. It should have coined in a manner that does not raise questions, because if we knew that there will be room for this and that, then, we would support it. Otherwise, the way the Motion is, I am afraid I would not want to be part of a law that would infringe on the rights of any family in the future.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Anyway, I will not comment.

Hon. Member for Chama South, you may proceed.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, it is a pity that most debaters have only looked at the issue concerning the late Former Head of State, yet this Motion is also about the other arms of the Government, that is, the Judiciary, headed by the Chief Justice, and the Legislature, headed by the Speaker. This is what the Motion is addressing. I know a number of debaters have concentrated on the late Former Head of State because of the current standoff.

Madam Speaker, I am of the view that the mover of this Motion, Hon. Chinkuli, was probably trying to suggest that we amend –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM SPEAKER, in the Chair]

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members with credentials, please, can you log in. There are so many hon. Members who have gone out with credentials. Please, log in. We need to make progress. I believe hon. Members are still enjoying lupa outside. We will ban lupa; meaning cassava.

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was highlighting a point that, probably, the hon. Member for Kanyama, when couching this Motion, had in mind that we need to amend the Benefits of Former Presidents Act, which is Chapter 15 of the Laws of Zambia. It is a very simple piece of legislation, I think, with seven Sections. Going by what we have just gone through as a nation, I want to put it on record that laws are amended or changed to take care of the problems at hand.

Madam Speaker, what others have argued is a jurisprudential challenge of what the law is and what morality demands. When one becomes the Head of State, it is an undeniable fact that such a person becomes a State asset. That is why, if we were to go to the Community House right now, we would find that the people in charge of that area are not family members. It is the State apparatus. Actually, some family members might even complain that it has taken a year for them to sit down with their relative, who is the Head of State. So, maybe, what is missing here is to urge the hon. Minister of Justice to bring an amendment to the Benefits of Former Presidents Act, which only looks at the benefits, including a small Schedule with about eight items.

Madam Speaker, we need to state categorically that if a former Head of State, former Chief Justice or former Speaker dies, since this is what this Motion is trying to inform us on, we should be able to let the State preside over the procession of the funeral. That has to be in black and white because it has already presented challenges to us as a nation. Yes, others have argued, for example, on issues of morality. Unfortunately, morality is not homogeneous. What is believed in Chama might not be the same in the North-Western Province or the Western Province. That is why, in our tradition, for example, and I believe that this is practiced in almost all African traditions, when a chief dies, before we bury or think of succession, we need to find another chief. The moment we start talking of succession without burying another chief, I think that morally, that is not accepted. This is a fact.

Mr Mabeta: Correct!

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, traditionally, wherever we come from, we first have to remove the body of the chief. As we are taking the body to the grave, we are leaving another chief in the house.

Mr Kasandwe: Question!

Mr Mung’andu: It depends on where one comes from. I am familiar with most cultures in this country.

Interruptions

Mr Mabeta: All the cultures!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Please, can we give the hon. Member for Chama South an opportunity to debate. Most hon. Members were not in the House earlier and I had closed the list at the hon. Member for Pemba. So, we need to make progress because today is a short day.

May the hon. Member for Chama South continue.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I was just trying to stress a point that where I come from, when a chief dies, we must first bury him before we think of appointing a new one. We first remove the body, and as we take the body to the cemetery, that is when we can appoint a new chief. That is why our hon. Colleagues are seeing some of us just watching the spectacle that is going on because it is against our culture. Actually, a President is above a chief, in case they do not know. They can check the law. Everyone is subject to the President. Therefore, I am submitting that the hon. Minister of Justice, going forward, should bring a Bill that will be very categorical, that if a former Head of State, Chief Justice or Speaker dies, the State takes over the reins of the entire funeral procession. So, those of us who are dreaming of becoming either a Speaker, Chief Justice or, indeed, President, our relatives should know that they will not have overriding powers over State powers when we pass on. I think that is the practice world over. No wonder we have seen judges making laws. We are not the only people who make laws. Judges also make laws. They are the ones who interpret the law. Therefore, should we always come to depend on judge-made laws? The answer is no.

Madam Speaker, in such cases, we should be pragmatic as a nation. I assure my brother, Hon. Chinkuli, that I support this Motion, and we urge the State, particularly the hon. Minister of Justice, to bring amendments to Chapter 15 of the Laws of Zambia. This is because at the moment, we do not have the appropriate law. This is the reason we have found ourselves in this situation. With these few remarks, I would like to support the Motion. I submit.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: The last one to debate is the hon. Member for Pemba, before the hon. Minister responds.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, I am so humbled to have been given this opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I support the Motion. I would like to bring out a few issues. Historically, in 2008, the country had a presidential by-election, after the death of His Excellency Dr Mwanawasa, may his soul rest in peace. A decision was made to bury his remains at Embassy Park. In 2015, seven years later, we had another unfortunate situation in which we lost President Michael Sata. He was also put to rest at Embassy Park.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker,–

Madam Speaker: There is an indication for a point of order.

What is the point of order, hon. Member for Shiwan’gandu?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, my point of order is procedural, and is pursuant to Standing Order No.71. The Motion under discussion, which has been moved by Hon. Chinkuli, states:

“Regulate the Conduct of Funerals for Heads of the Three Arms of Government: That this House urges the Government to regulate the conduct of funerals of sitting and former heads of the Legislature, Executive and Judiciary.”

Madam Speaker, we, legislators in this august House, make laws. Regulations can only be formed by an existing piece of legislation, meaning that there must be an Act in place. I have been listening to the debates. The mover of the Motion has acknowledged that there is no law providing for the funerals of people in these offices. The hon. Member who was debating made reference to the Benefits of Former Presidents Act. That is totally different.

Madam Speaker, are we in order to continue pushing this Motion for regulations when a law does not exist? Like I stated, regulations can only be formed by an existing piece of legislation. The mover of the Motion has valid reasons, and he is urging the Government to come up with an Act of Parliament to govern the issues he has raised. Regulations can be promulgated later on, and not by this august House. We must be well-informed legislators, and we should take stock of the pieces of legislation we have passed.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious guidance on this matter. Are we in order to continue pushing regulations in the absence of a substantive Act?

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. First of all, it is important for all hon. Members to be in attendance when a debate is happening so that they follow the debate and the guidance that is given. There is no point of order that can be raised on procedure. There is nothing like that.

As regards the Motion, it is very clear. It was processed and admitted as such. The Motion is urging the Government to regulate the conduct of funerals for sitting and former heads of the Legislature, Executive and Judiciary. It is not talking about coming up with regulations. It is saying, “regulate.” You can regulate through an Act of Parliament, a practice or whatever. It is not specified here that we should come up with a regulation. It can come through an Act of Parliament, guidance, a circular, or something like that. Also, we are not talking about the current situation; I guided on that. We are talking in futuristic terms.

Mr Kampyongo: We know, you are just –

Madam Speaker: In future, the Government should regulate how these things can be done.

So, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, you are out of order.

Mr Nkulukusa: You are out of order!

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Madam Speaker: So, can we allow the hon. Member for Pemba to continue.

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, before the interruption by the hon. Member for Shiwan’gandu, I was still on my preamble, stating where we are coming from, as a country. I was talking about the last two presidential by-elections we had.

Mr Kampyongo left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Hamwaata: After the last two presidential by-elections, the Zambian people decided to put presidential by-elections to an end, by introducing the Running Mate Clause in the Constitution.

Madam Speaker, I was wondering what was going on with the situation we have now, until I saw this Motion. I realised that something must happen for something to happen. What am I talking about? We lost the Sixth President on 5^th June, 2025. To date, we have not buried him. Why? It is because there was an open door for one to challenge the issue when a decision was made to bury former presidents at Embassy Park. In my view, we have reached a point where we need regulations so that we do not find ourselves in the same situation again.

Madam Speaker, I am a village headman.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambita: And a rich man!

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, can I be protected?

Madam Speaker: Order!

I have just observed that the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu has again left the House.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, please, come back to the House.

Mr Kampyongo entered the Assembly Chamber.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Okay, thank you.

Mr Kambita: Ema announcement!

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

Hon. Member for Pemba, you may proceed.

Mr Kampyongo rose.

Mr Kampyongo: Am I allowed to –

Madam Speaker: No, the rules require that when you make a point of order or raise an issue, you should sit and listen to the debate. Do not walk away. Maybe, you were answering a call, I do not know, but I am glad that you are back.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, I said that I am a village headman, and I understand tradition. Surely, we all belong to chiefdoms. The head of a chiefdom can be a chief or a chieftainess, and in some cases, a king. When you choose to be on a throne, you must accept the rules and regulations and follow them. We need to have a law that will regulate the way the people in these offices should be put to rest.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Pemba Constituency, I support the Motion, so that tomorrow the country should not end up in a situation like the one we are in.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I support the Motion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to say a few things on this Motion.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I support the Motion ably moved by the hon. Member for Kanyama and seconded by the hon. Member for Solwezi East. I think, it is a sad indictment on our conduct, as a nation that we have come to his point. We have had six former Heads of State. Two of them died in office and the other four died when they were out of office. Out of these six, the funeral and burial proceeding, including burial sites for five of them followed our own newly created traditions and we have had no problems. The fact that the funeral of one of them has had issues is what has caused this Motion to be brought to the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, a nation is dynamic. Rules and laws follow the prevailing circumstances. Since we are in these prevailing circumstances, it has been felt that perhaps, this House must come up with procedures or laws to ensure that we avoid these sorts of circumstances.

Madam Speaker, this year, I have been privileged to be picked by His Excellency the President to represent this nation at two important funerals. The first one was that of the Pope, where I accompanied the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation. We were able to witness everything there. I shudder to think that one day, we would have a Pope whose relatives would say, “No, you cannot bury him under these circumstances in this place.” That would be unthinkable.

Madam Speaker, once you attain certain positions, there are certain rules, regulations and procedures that follow you as well. In the current impasse that we have, I know that what we are debating does not apply retrospectively, but in this debate, there was one Prince was heard supporting what is going on. He said, “let the family’s opinions prevail.” I was able to reflect on that particular Prince and remembered that when his own father, who was the chief died, under the customary procedures, there was no way that he himself as a family member or indeed, his family could determine where to bury their father. It is the system around the chiefdom that decides where and how they bury him. This happens right throughout our cultures.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Luena made reference to what happens during our state funerals. He referred to the solemn music that gets played. Again, it reminded me of the second funeral, where I had to represent the state. This was the funeral of the late former Prime Minister of Kenya, Raila Odinga. I remember when I arrived in Nairobi, I was taken to the funeral house. I arrived in the evening. I was surprised when I met the widow who was in a jovial mood. She even invited me to have dinner with them. In the house, there was rumba music playing. There was happiness.

Mr Nkandu: Just like in the Western Province.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, can I be protected from this hon. Member.

Laughter

Eng. Milupi: So, there are differences in culture, but overall, the need to respect the deceased, especially if they held high office, is paramount. If you rise to the Head of State level, it must be accepted that you now belong to the whole nation.

Madam Speaker, I spent my youthful days as a young person in the United Kingdom (UK). I know that when Prime Ministers die, even though they may not be Heads of State, there are also procedures on how and where they get buried. If you go to some of the places like the Westminster Abbey, where they get buried, even as you step on that floor, there will be certain plates which define where Sir Winston Churchill was put to rest and so on.

In China, even those emperors of old are in certain places and their burials followed certain procedures. If you go to Angola, they will take you to where the first President lies in state. This is happening in all African countries. If you go to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Kinshasa in particular, they will show you a place where Patrice Lumumba lies. Even though they killed and dissolved him in ice, there was one tooth that remained, that was taken to Europe, but later on, brought back and buried in a certain place.

Hon. UPND Members: Quality!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, these places where our Heads of State are buried are places of reverence. This is where people go as a nation and so, they bring unity within the nation. They create respectability within the nation.

Madam Speaker, the Motion refers to three offices of those who head the arms of Government. In the same vein, I would like to add the fourth one, and that is of the Vice-President. The Office of the Vice-President, in terms of stature and so on, is equated to those other offices, especially now when they are voted for as a running mate because they do not get appointed. So, going forward, this Motion must also include that sort of person.

Madam Speaker, the family must have a say, but that say ought to be reasonable. We have not seen this before but going forward– Five Heads of State died, but even for those families that wanted something different, for example, the burial of our first President, the views of the nation prevailed, and I have heard Mr Kaweche Kaunda, articulating exactly what happened.

Madam Speaker, I support this Motion, and the Government really ought to come up with an Act of Parliament that will regulate how we treat Heads of State. If, however, any one of us belongs to a family that does not want that person, that member to be treated like that, the choice is theirs. They will say, No, daddy, do not be President. Do not be president because we want to go and bury you in our village. We want to do it differently.

Hon. Government Members: Quality!

Eng. Milupi: If Hon. Miles Sampa does not want to be buried like that, he should drop himself from wanting to be president of the Patriotic Front (PF).

Ms Mulenga: Question!

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, with those few words, I support the Motion.

Madam Speaker: Some people want to be presidents, but they do not want to be buried. They are already protesting.

Laughter

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.) (on behalf of the Minister of Justice (Ms Kasune)): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to respond to the debate on the Motion that has been ably moved by the Member of Parliament for Kanyama, Hon. Monty Chinkuli, …

Mr Mubika: Senior junkie!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: … and seconded by the Member of Parliament for Solwezi East, Hon. Dr Katakwe.

Madam Speaker, the Private Member’s Motion under consideration is titled: “Regulate the Conduct of Funerals for Heads of the Three Arms of the Government: that this House urges the Government to regulate the conduct of funerals of sitting and former Heads of the legislature, Executive and Judiciary”.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I would like to acknowledge that currently there is no law in the Republic that regulates the conduct of funerals of sitting and former heads of the Legislature, Executive and Judiciary. However, I would like to inform this august House that the Cabinet recently approved the introduction of legislation to regulate the conduct of funerals for Heads of State and Former Heads of State. The ministry is in the process of crafting the necessary legislation in that regard. We are making the necessary consultations on the same. It is imperative to indicate that at present, the intention is to regulate the conduct of funerals for Heads of State and Former Heads of State, with the possibility of extending the law in future so that it covers the heads of the Legislature and Judiciary.

As a listening Government, Madam Speaker, we have heard the submissions made by various hon. Members on this matter, and we have heard representations on the fact that we should not forget other constitutional office holders, like Ministers and Parliamentarians, as we craft the law so that we provide for them.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Madam Speaker, we are aware, as you have rightly indicated, that laws, and as the situation obtains in the country, do not operate retrospectively. You have given guidance on that. We would like to assure our hon. Colleagues on your left that it is not the intention to cover the burial of the immediate Former President who is late. This is a law that will cover future issues of funerals.

Madam Speaker, we are also aware that a judgement was made in the Kaweche Kaunda case pertaining to a similar matter, but that particular judgement, although it is law, is not substantive enough to regulate funerals of Former Heads of State and current Head of State, and that is why we, as the Government, have accepted the Motion, which has been moved by the hon. Member, wholeheartedly. I also want to assure the nation and my hon. Colleagues that when we pass the legislation, it will not be to the exclusion of the family. The family will be part and parcel of the whole process. There will be guidance on how state funerals relating to Former Heads of State will be conducted. We know that families are important but, as it has been debated here, in this House, when you assume certain positions, certain rights are derogated. You cannot claim. That is how it is.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Madam Speaker, we will ensure that the rights of the State and the family are protected. However, there are situations in which the rights of the State supersede the rights of individuals. I think that is what members of the public have been stating. We have heard.

Finally, Madam Speaker, I would like to restate that we, as the Government, and other hon. Members of this august House, support this Motion. We look forward to legislation being brought so that we can guide accordingly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to wind up the debate.

Madam Speakers, I cannot put it in a better way than the hon. Members and hon. Ministers. I would just like to thank all those who have debated for and against the Motion. This Motion is not focused on an individual or group. It is something progressive. We want to run away from certain issues that may arise in the event we do not regulate the funerals of the three arms of the Government. What has been a challenge for me is the fact that, instead of looking at developmental issues, we start going back, for example, looking at the Kaunda issue and what happened. The fact is that the Government has chosen a place at Embassy Park where our gallant Presidents should be put to rest. Why should we not enforce that with a law that compels whoever occupies a certain position to be buried there?

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinkuli and Mr Katakwe embraced each other.

Madam Speaker: That is not allowed.

Laughter

Question put and agreed to.

Hon. PF Members called for a division.

Madam Speaker: You are only two. So, let us make progress.

Laughter

______

BILL

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

THE OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH AND SAFETY BILL, 2025

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on page 8:

in lines 31 to 35 by the deletion of the definition of “post-employment medical examination” and the substitution therefor of the following:

“post-employment medical examination” means a health assessment carried out on a retired employee who worked in a hazardous workplace, to assess hazards which might cause future health impairments;; and

in line 37 by the insertion of the word ‘out’ immediately after the word “carried”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 14 – (Duties of employer at workplace)

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 14, on page 16, in line 35 by the insertion of the word “thousand” immediately after the words “seventy-five”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 14, as amended, ordered to stand of the Bill.

CLAUSE 15 – (Employer to inform Institute of ill health of employee)

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 15, on page 17, in lines 4 to 7 by the deletion of subclause (3) and the substitution therefor of the following:

An employer who contravenes subsection (1) is liable to an administrative penalty.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 15, as amended, ordered to stand of the Bill.

CLAUSE 16 – (Duties of employee at workplace)

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 16, on page 17, in line 27 by the deletion of the words “one hundred” and the substitution therefor of the word “fifty”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 16, as amended, ordered to stand of the Bill.

Clauses 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 and 23 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 24 – (Prohibition of employment of person without medical examination certificate)

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 24, on page 22:

in lines 14 to 15 by the deletion of the words “five hundred” and the substitution therefor of the words “three hundred and seventy-five”; and

in line 16 by the deletion of the word “five” and the substitution therefor of the word “two”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 24, as amended, ordered to stand of the Bill.

Clause 25 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 26 – (Medical examinations)

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 26, on page 23:

in line 26 by the deletion of the words “one million” and the substitution therefor of the words “three hundred and seventy-five thousand”; and

in line 27 by the deletion of the word “ten” and the substitution therefor of the word “three”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 26, as amended, ordered to stand of the Bill.

Clauses 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53 and 54 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First and Second Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was considered at Committee stage:

The Occupational Health and Safety Bill, 2025.

Consideration of the Bill to be resumed on Thursday, 27^th November, 2025.

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT: ADDRESS THE ESCALATING CASES OF POLITICAL VIOLENCE IN THE COUNTRY

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Madam Speaker: We have an item for debate on the Motion of Adjournment of the House by the hon. Member for Chilubi.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Motion of Adjournment, on behalf of the people of Chilubi.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Chilubi and many other people on your left, I have been moved to speak on this particular subject because of what is happening in the nation. For starters, the Constitution, in its preamble, recognises Zambia as a multi-ethnic, multicultural, multiracial and multireligious nation, Further, the preamble resolves that Zambia is a unitary, multi-party and democratic sovereign State. These credentials have given our nation a peaceful standing. Further, the national values address national unity, human dignity and many other issues. This is buttressed by the Bill of Rights, which talks about a peaceful environment, especially since we have only political and civil rights.

Madam Speaker, the nation houses 95.5 per cent Christians, 2.7 per cent Muslims and 1.8 per people of other religious groups. Given those credentials, it is expected that members of different political parties will find themselves belonging to these religious groupings, or they will find some solace under the umbrella of national values. If that is difficult, they can recognise what is written in the preamble, and that is what is expected.

Madam Speaker, we have recorded some very ugly scenes of violence. As the Motion says, that violence is within the domain of political violence. What we are addressing today is not Gender-Based Violence (GBV) or domestic violence; it is political violence. I have seen that within the parameters of inter-party, not intra-party, relationships, there is violence, and it is especially instigated by the current Ruling Party, the United Party for National Development (UPND). Unfortunately, it has extended its violence to the police. Just the other day, a police officer was attacked badly at some point where we pay toll fees. He was attacked at Wilson Mofya Toll Gate. Apart from that, you cannot imagine the violence that is going on in the so-called illegal gold mines. People are separated between the Patriotic Front (PF) cadres and UPND cadres, and there is serious violence.

Madam Speaker, I am speaking as a person who lost a cousin two days ago. After an investigation into his death, we found that we were cheated on the cause of his death. We were informed that it was just a stone that collapsed on him in Mpika. However, we found out that there was a rivalry between young people. Young people have not been controlled, so they fight whenever they find any space to mine because of too much hunger in the country. You will find that whenever they find a gold mine, they will fight and divide themselves into groups.

Madam Speaker, I want to put on record that the scenes we are witnessing show that the country is polarised. If the country is polarised, it means that as legislators, we have a duty to look within the confines of the preamble in the Constitution, the national values as well as the Bill of Rights. I know that sometimes, it takes two to tango. However, you will find that the violence we are witnessing this time around is one way. Yes, one way means that it is being caused by one group. We know that much of what we used to witness was people fighting and then one group would be defeated. What has made the situation worse is that when it comes to people proposing violence, it is like there is no Penal Code in the country. Some people can propose violence at any time.

Madam Speaker, just the other day, a youth leader openly proposed violence. I will not mention the political party he belongs to or his name because he is not here to defend himself. However, he said he was going to pounce on the protesters who said they would demonstrate peacefully. To make matters worse, the same thing was mentioned yesterday. Someone gestured and said those were powerful words and protesters could be pounced on.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, …

Yes, they can say, “Question”, but these are serious matters.

Madam Speaker, I fear that if victims of the current violence start retaliating, we will not have a peaceful country. Countries that have been set on fire and ripped apart have ignored such simple things, where a youth who feels powerful says “Today, I am going to attack those” and they are not controlled.

Madam Speaker, I know that there are many people who would like to contribute. Given that this segment has limited time, I would like to stop here and give a chance to others. As I lay the background, I would like to establish that there are ugly scenes of political violence. In as much as people can say, “Question,” this is not something that we, as leaders can defend.

As leaders, we should be responsible and tell members especially the youths of our political parties, be it the Patriotic Front (PF), the United National Independence Party (UNIP) or the United Party for National Development (UPND) that being violent can put a country at a crossroads in terms of credentials of peace. Therefore, all of us here should take up that responsibility. As for me, being a member of the PF, I have been restraining many youths from participating in violence.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Fube: I, therefore, expect the same to be taken by those who are saying, “Question”, especially akatuntulu so that at the end of the day, we can have a peaceful nation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

This debate is general. I just want to balance. So, it does not matter whether it is an hon. Minister who debates or whoever. It is just a combination. So, I call on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Mr Kang’ombe: He should have been the last to speak.

Madam Speaker: No, it is a general debate.

Interruptions

The Minster of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Madam Speaker, as you have guided, this is a general debate. There is no winding up on this debate.

Madam Speaker, I listened to the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi as he was moving the Adjournment Motion. In his submissions, he has indicated that the perpetrator of violence in the country is the Ruling Party and that violence is escalating.

Madam Speaker, we all know that after the Patriotic Front (PF), we are the immediate Ruling Party. We all know what happened during PF regime. During its reign, the PF never condemned violence. It never condemned violence from the highest office to the lowest member of the party. The current Government is on record condemning cadreism and violence. His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia is on record condemning violence. I am on record condemning violence.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member said that violence is escalating. I want to pose a question to him. During the violence that is said to be escalating and threatening the country, who has died? Who has died?

Madam Speaker, time is not with us. However, under the reign of the PF, Mapenzi Chibulo was shot and killed by the PF. Lawrence Banda was killed by the PF. A journalist was urinated upon by the Provincial Youth Chairman in Eastern Province.

Mr Kambita: He is now in the diaspora!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Nsama Nsama.

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: No!

Hon. UPND Members: It is a general debate. Sit down!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Madam Speaker, I am trying to show the violence that took place during the PF regime and compare it to the present situation.

The hon. Member is raising an alarm pertaining to the violence, but I am trying to show that there is no escalation. The Government has controlled violence in the country. The incidences of violence are few. Even in such incidences, individuals have been arrested. This shows that the Government does not condone violence. The perpetrators of the Kabwe incident are in police cells because the Government does not condone violence. The PF used to condone violence. The perpetrators of violence were even being kept by the PF at State House during that period.

Madam Speaker, the PF raped one of our members at the Freedom Statue under their watch. What violence escalation are they talking about? Police were being beaten at Central Police, and the PF protected the perpetrators.

Hon. Government Member: Kamugodi!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Yes.

Madam Speaker, the Government is firm and categorical. We have said that anyone who commits offences are on their own and we will not tolerate anyone who does that. The hon. Member has not condemned a priest who was justifying violence. He has not. Why has he left out the priest who was proposing violence, who wants violence to be perpetrated in this country?

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: He wants violence to escalate–

The hon. Minister’s time expired.

Madam Speaker: I am sorry. The time is up.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: I wish I had more time. I have evidence here, and I will lay it on the table.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ho. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC. laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Chilubi for bringing up this very important topic. When an issue needs attention, all of us must be clear on what we need to do to resolve the problem. I hope that the same level of communication among hon. Members of Parliament, young people out there must begin realising that none of the politicians at very senior level will ever send their children to participate in any form of political violence.

Madam Speaker, I want to start from that perspective because where we are as Parliamentarians, we are representing one arm of the Government. So, if we are representing one arm of the Government, where laws are made, we have a duty to transfer the same level of energy that we sometimes seem to experience here, out there where unfortunately, young people tend to fight over politics when in fact, the Parliamentarians out there are always interacting.

Madam Speaker, when are having refreshments, hon. Members of Parliament from the Ruling Party and the Opposition are always interacting. However, young people out there wear specific colours of political parties try to flex their muscles when it is unnecessary. That is why I have started from that perspective. This is not just a conversation for hon. Members of Parliament who are gathered here today, but for the nation. The people are waiting for leadership from this platform called Parliament. We will fail the people of Zambia if we do not discuss the problem and the solution. That is why I am reminding the young people that the issue that we are discussing today, which has been brought by Hon. Fube, is political violence. If this problem is real, unless someone here is pretending that we do not have this problem, we need to deal with it. How do we deal with this problem?

Madam Speaker, if there is a report, whether it is at the police station, and the hon. Minister responsible says that, indeed, they have this report, and that the young people who were misbehaving are in custody, then, that speaks to the reality. That is why we have a duty. We can all pretend that there is no problem and exit Parliament today saying that we did not have a problem, and that what was presented was unnecessary. However, we have a duty, because we have been given a mandate. The mandate to be Parliamentarians has been given to us the last four or five years. Should we use this opportunity today to tell the young people that what they are doing is correct? We have a duty to tell them that hon. Members of Parliament, regardless of political affiliation, interact every day. We have breakfast together. When there is a parliamentary tour, either to Mauritius or Solwezi, we chat, and enjoy conversations. Why can we not transfer the same level of energy to our young people? Why can we not tell our young people that they do not have to belong to a political party to perpetrate violence?

Madam Speaker, I want to be on record, as a young person in leadership. I cannot misuse this opportunity. I have been given four or five minutes to preach a message to our young people. They should not flex their muscles because they are in a certain political party. We should be discussing how we will empower the young people to be productive. How do we ensure that if a political party has a youth wing, that wing is used to advance the ideologies of the political party? This business of using violence is not good. The actual voters hate violence. They hate the idea that a young person can say that he or she will fix another person using violence. We have an opportunity. Will we waste the opportunity that has been accorded to us today, and tell our young people to continue what they are doing? Whether provoked or not, that is not correct. I will never send my children to participate in political violence. I would not do the same with the people who come from the community I represent. I should help the young people become productive citizens.

Madam Speaker, that is my message today. Let us address the problem. Let us not pretend that there is no problem.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: We will listen to an Independent Member, the hon. Member for Nyimba.

Mr Zulu (Nyimba): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, speaking from experience, violence is encouraged by leadership. I was the youth chairperson for the Patriotic Front (PF) on the Copperbelt Province from 2007 to 2014. I cannot remember a day there was violence in the province during my tenure, because I managed the youths, and I never allowed any forms of violence. Some of the former district youth chairpersons are in the Executive and seated on the right, while others are seated on the left. I managed them without any violence because I knew what the youths wanted. I remember comrade Munsanje was the United Party for National Development (UPND) youth chairperson for the Copperbelt Province. We worked as a team. Even before the short-lived association between the PF and the UPND, we managed the Copperbelt Province. Hon. Pavyuma Kalobo and Hon. Kang’ombe can testify to that. I managed the youths. We are lacking leadership among the youths. We cannot continue the way things are. It is sad. In my language, we say, “cawamila muzako capita, mawa cili pa iwe”, which simply means that what you are doing will end, the following day it will be on you.

Madam Speaker, we have seen the violence that came from the PF after comrade Winter Kabimba was dismissed from the political party. A good number of us followed suit. We were sacrificed as being stooges for Winter Kabimba. As a result, there was a change to violence.

Madam Speaker, the same cadres have moved from the PF into the UPND. We need to accept that.

Ms Mulenga: Question!

Mr Zulu: Madam Speaker, even that lady talking there (pointed at Ms Mulenga) was a district youth chairperson. So, I have experience in these things I am talking about. I advise the Executive and the hon. Members on the left to condemn violence. None of us would want our children to go into the streets and start violence, or even to protest. Those who encourage people to protest are the leaders. Ask them where their children are. You find that their children are in Australia, China and Europe, in high-paying schools, but they send children from Kanyama and Bauleni to the streets. What is it that we are doing? Is that what we call leadership?

Madam Speaker, the PF left the Government because of cadreism. The UPND might have its shortcomings but, at least, it is doing things right at 80 per cent.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Zulu: Madam Speaker, the only thing I can say is that no political party is without a fault. Those people there, on your right, are just human, just as we are. Can the UPND manage that seed that is germinating in its political party. Let us not pretend. The PF left the Government because of violence. If we allow that seed to germinate, the UPND might leave too. Just imagine the UPND leaving the Government, how many children would be out of bursaries?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zulu: Madam Speaker, last week, when had the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) meetings, I checked the number of children who are on the CDF bursary scheme, and the schools we have built. Where there were only, what we call musana wa njobvu, meaning grass, bamboo-built classrooms, there are one-by-three classroom blocks today. If the Executive allows violence, we will lose the K40 million. We need that K40 million in the constituencies. So, the Government should work on this issue. Those things we watched at the toll gate in Kitwe should come to an end, and discipline should be instituted. We do not need such.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: From the way they talk, you can tell that there could be violence somewhere.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: That was on a lighter note.

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the people of Mwandi, to add my voice to the debate on this Motion of Adjournment.

Madam Speaker, I have a problem with this Motion that has been moved by Hon. Fube. The hon. Member has said that we should address the escalating cases of political violence in this country. That is where my problem is, because I understand what escalation means. If the hon. Member had addressed a particular act of violence, I would have said that he was being honest. It is very important to have honest conversations as leaders. If we cannot have honest conversations in this House, that means we are not ready to lead. Escalation means the rise of something, from where it was to something that is higher. That is where I have a problem. There is no escalation in political violence. What has happened is a reduction in political violence. I want to have an honest conversation. I come from Mwandi, which is a neighbour to Sesheke. If, today, someone comes here and talks about escalating cases of violence, they are actually hurting us because that is not being honest.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: There is cadrism!

Hon. UPND Members: Aha, Kalulushi!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon Members!

The rules still apply.

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, the person who is talking about the escalation of political violence is not having an honest conversation. If at all there is any political violence, we should go ahead and address that particular issue, than to say that there is escalation of violence in this country.

Madam Speaker, today, if we stand and speak about what happened in Sesheke, the person who was involved was an hon. Member of Parliament. Even in Chilubi, where the hon. Member who has moved the Motion came out victorious after a by-election, there was a lot of political violence.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, that is why I say it is very unfair for us –

Interruptions

Ms Sefulo: It is very unfair for that hon. Member (pointed at Mr Fube) to bring such a Motion. I think, he is not being honest. If he has anything specific that we should speak to, we can listen.

Mr Fube: On a Point of Order, Madam Speaker.

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, have our hon. Colleagues in the Opposition forgotten the political violence that was in Sesheke for them to come today and raise such a Motion?

Mr Fube: On a Point of Order, Madam Speaker.

She is now debating me.

Ms Sefulo: Iwe, Hon. Fube, have you forgotten the political violence in Sesheke?

Mr Mapani: He is a product of political violence.

Interruptions

Ms Sefulo: Iwe, keep quiet!

Interruptions

Ms Sefulo: Sit down first.

Mr Fube: That is being violent now!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Can we have order!

Mr Fube: She is being violent towards me.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chilubi!

Ms Sefulo: You, Fube, keep quiet.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Fube: Look at that, she is being violent towards me!

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, we want to heal.

Mr Mulunda: You are a violent person!

Madam Speaker: Look who is talking?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Okay, order, hon. Member for Chilubi!

You brought the Motion and it is being debated.

Ms Sefulo: You should be ready to take it.

Madam Speaker, we want to heal from where we came from so that we can direct our children –

Mr Sampa: On a Point of Order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I will not allow any Points of Order because the time allocated for this Motion is only thirty minutes, and the thirty minutes will soon expire.

Hon. Member for Matero, please, resume your seat.

Mr Mulunda: Deputy SG!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mwandi, continue addressing the Presiding Officer.

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, what we should focus on here is looking back at where we came from, where we are now and how we can address situations better, not to claim that where we are coming from things were better.

Mr Sing’ombe: Imagine!

Ms Sefulo: That is not being honest.

Madam Speaker, there was a lot of political violence in this country in the past. I am speaking about the issue of escalation. Someone cannot come and say there is an escalation of violence in this country. Where were they when a woman was being stripped naked at the Freedom Statue? A woman like me was stripped naked in front of someone who was occupying a high office. So, for someone to come today and tell me that there is an escalation of political violence is so unfair.

Madam Speaker, we are actually being provoked because ours now is to heal.

Mr Kasandwe: Provoked by who?

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, we want to heal from the political violence of the Patriotic Front (PF).

Interruptions

Ms Sefulo: We have no intentions of tagging along our children with what happened.

Madam Speaker, we have heard our Republican President stand and condemn violence.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Every time there is any violence in this country, the Head of State in this country, our leader, condemns it.

Mr Kasandwe: He is escalating it!

Ms Sefulo: Imwe ba father. Can you stop. Leave me alone.

Hon. UPND Members: Former father!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

May the hon. Member for Mwandi wind up.

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to say that let us allow the country to heal. This Government is very committed to making sure that we suppress cadrism and political violence so that it goes down to zero.

Mr Kasandwe: Umwaiche uyu takwata umuchinshi ai!

Laughter

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, I do not want to speak about the past because we are focused on the future; resolving and ensuring that there is no political violence in this country. The PF, the United Party for National Development (UPND) or any political party should all be able to live like we live in a home.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, I submit.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: It shows how peaceful we are.

As the thirty minutes allocated for the debate on the subject for debate on the Motion of Adjournment have been exhausted, debate on the subject lapses.

_______

The House adjourned at 1825 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 27^th November, 2025.

____________

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