Friday, 25^th July, 2025

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM RICHMAR PRIVATE SCHOOL

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils and teachers from Richmar Private School, Kalomo District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

Thank you.

STUDENTS FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF ZAMBIA SCHOOL OF EDUCATION

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of students from the University of Zambia School of Education, Lusaka District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

Thank you.

VISITORS FROM MALAMBO PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of visitors from Malambo Parliamentary Constituency, Mambwe District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

Thank you.

GUIDANCE ON COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS AND PUBLIC ACCESS

Madam Speaker: Before we move to the consideration of the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee, let me provide guidance.

Article 89(2) of the Constitution of Zambia states as follows:

 “The National Assembly or a parliamentary committee shall not exclude the public or the media from its sittings, unless there are justifiable reasons for the exclusion and the Speaker informs the public or media of the reasons.”

Hon. Members, the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee is classified under the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, as a Housekeeping Committee. In this regard, Standing Order No. 199(d) states as follows:

“199. There are established the following House-Keeping Committees:

(d) Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee.”

Hon. Members, the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee deals with inhouse matters hinging on the powers, privileges, procedures and practices, organisation and facilities of the Assembly. For this reason, the debate on the Report of the Committee is held in camera. It is in view of the foregoing that I direct all members of the public and the media to leave the House at the time when the report will be debated. I further direct that broadcasting of the proceedings on Parliament radio, television and social media be suspended during the debate on the report.

Thank you.

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RULING BY MADAM SPEAKER

ON A POINT OF ORDER RAISED ON TUESDAY, 15^TH JULY, 2025, BY MR B. KAMBITA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR ZAMBEZI EAST CONSTITUENCY, ON THE STATUS OF MS T. LUNGU, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHAWAMA CONSTITUENCY, FOLLOWING THE ALLEGED SUBMISSION BY THE FORMER FIRST LADY MRS ESTHER LUNGU IN THE SOUTH AFRICAN HIGH COURT, THAT THE LUNGU FAMILY DOES NOT INTEND TO RETURN TO ZAMBIA

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Tuesday, 15^th July, 2025, when the House was considering the Ministerial Statement by the Minister of Community Development and Social Services on the Impact of the Social Cash Transfer and Cash-for-Work Programmes, and Hon. D. S. Mwamba, MP, Minister of Community Development and Social Services, had just finished responding to a follow-up question by Mr C. Mulenga, hon. Member of Parliament for Kwacha Constituency, Mr B. Kambita, hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East Constituency, raised a point of order.

The point of order was premised on Order Nos. 243, and 223(1) and (2) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, which:

1. require an hon. Member seeking to be absent from the Sittings of the House to obtain written permission from the Government Chief Whip or the Speaker; and
2. provide for the referral of a matter by the Speaker to the Committee on Privileges and Absences for hearing and determination where an hon. Member is absent from the Sitting of the House for four consecutive sittings without obtaining prior written permission.

Hon. Members, in raising the point of order, Mr B. Kambita, MP, referred to a recent alleged submission by the former First Lady, Mrs Esther Lungu, to the South African High Court. Mr B. Kambita, MP, stated that it was reported that the former First Lady had stated that her family does not intend to return to Zambia due to safety concerns. He further submitted that Ms T. Lungu, hon. Member of Parliament for Chawama Constituency, is a member of the Lungu family. On that premise, Mr B. Kambita, MP, enquired whether the House was in order to continue recognising Ms T. Lungu, MP, as an hon. Member of Parliament when she has no intention of returning to Zambia. In my immediate response, I reserved my ruling to enable me study the matter. I have since studied the matter and will now render my ruling.

Hon. Members, the issue the point of order raised was whether an hon. Member who is outside the country and has no intention of returning should continue to be recognised as an hon. Member of Parliament. It is in the public domain that the Sixth Republican President, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, passed away on Thursday, 5^th June, 2025, in Pretoria, South Africa, and is yet to be put to rest. It is also a known fact that the deceased was the father of Ms T. Lungu, MP. It is noted that some of the deceased’s family members, including Ms T. Lungu, MP, had since travelled to South Africa and are still there awaiting the determination of the court proceedings regarding the repatriation of the body of the late former President. In this regard, the Lungu family is still in mourning. I am also aware that there are ongoing negotiations between the Government and the Lungu family to try and resolve the matter outside court. We remain hopeful that an amicable solution will be found. The House may wish to note that my office is in receipt of a letter from Ms T. Lungu, MP, requesting for leave of absence to enable her attend to the ongoing court proceedings in South Africa regarding the burial place of her late father.

In light of that state of affairs, the issue relating to whether Ms T. Lungu, MP, should continue to be recognised as an hon. Member of Parliament is a matter that will be addressed at a later date. While I recognise the sad state of affairs regarding the funeral of the late former President and the need for Ms T. Lungu, MP, to mourn and put her father to rest, I am also alive to the need for the people of Chawama Parliamentary Constituency to be represented. In this regard, I direct, in absentia, Ms T. Lungu, MP, to present herself to either my office, if the House will be on recess, or the House, within fourteen days after the burial of her late father, or within fourteen days of the opening of the Fifth Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly.

I thank you.

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URGENT MATTER WITHOUT NOTICE

MR KATAKWE, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SOLWEZI EAST, ON MR TAYALI, HON. MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND LOGISTICS, ON MEASURES THE GOVERNMENT IS TAKING TO PREVENT FURTHER LOSS OF LIVES ON THE ROAD NEAR LUNGA RIVER

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, on an Urgent Matter without Notice.

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, the matter I am raising is directed at the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics. Around 1500 hours yesterday, in my constituency, a Likili Bus and an abnormal load truck collided near Lunga River. Information that has reached my office is that eight people died on the spot. However, the police have reported that about fourteen people died, while several others were injured. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the number of fatalities, and the measures that the Government is taking to prevent further loss of lives on that 90 km plus stretch, which is a danger.

Madam Speaker, I would also like to know from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security if a highway patrol vehicle and speed gun can be provided to our officers in Mushindamo because there is none at the moment to ensure that the road is safe. Just less than forty-eight hours ago, the only ambulance that we had in Mushindamo crashed while rushing a patient to Solwezi General Hospital. I thought that it was important to raise this matter so that we can save lives on that stretch of the road.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

Madam Speaker: Thank you, hon. Member for – Which constituency again?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Solwezi East.

Hon. Member, I suggest you file in a question and then the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics will address that issue.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Kandafula (Serenje): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the humble people of Serenje, to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Speaker, in the first place, let me apologise to you, because although the issue of ten bags has been discussed at length, there is a question from the people of Serenje and other parts of the country.

Madam Speaker, the law of nature states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

Mr Kandafula: Madam Speaker, the people of Serenje and other parts of the country are asking that –

Interruptions

Laughter

Mr Kandafula: Sorry, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, people are asking if the insistence on selling ten bags of maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) for people to qualify to be on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) in the next farming season is a deliberate move to wean off some people, knowing the trend and difficulties that people go through to sell their maize to the FRA.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Serenje for that very important question, though we spent a lot of time on that matter with the hon. Minister after the presentation of a Ministerial Statement.

Madam Speaker, the standing principle is that people who benefit from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) by whichever way, either physically or electronically, should sell, at least, ten bags of maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). The concern that the hon. Member has raised is that there are difficulties in selling the maize. The process takes too long. There is only one word that I might have missed from the hon. Minister. My understanding is that it is not that people should first sell the ten – ­I am trying to pick out a word. If the rule is that they must first sell ten bags of maize to the FRA, then, it could be complicated. However, if beneficiaries have to sell ten bags of maize to the FRA, they do not have to wait until they do that for them to sell the rest of their produce. It is about reserving ten bags for sale to the FRA. That is my understanding.

I think, it is important that people understand that they do not have to be stationed at the satellite depots until they sell ten bags of maize. It is not a tithe, there is something called a tithe somewhere. Farmers should sell at their convenience, before the end of the year. I think that is the way I can explain it to ease the people’s anxiety. It is not like farmers should first sell ten bags, no. However, they should keep ten bags for the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). In case something else happens along the way, like what the hon. Member for Kasama Central had asked, things can be looked at differently. However, for now, please, if one cannot go to the market or stay there because there are too many queues, one should keep ten bags to sell at the right time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, firstly, I would like to thank Her Honour the Vice-President and President Hakainde Hichilema for the works that are going on in Chama South Constituency. In Chief Chikwa and Chief Tembwe’s chiefdoms, ZESCO Limited is on the ground to ensure that the people are connected to the national grid. We are very grateful to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, my question is on the human-animal conflict. This country has been experiencing loss of lives, not only in Chama South, but in almost all the game management areas (GMAs) where there are elephants. The hon. Madam Speaker appointed a committee of one, which has come up with a concept aimed at addressing this problem.  I am happy to inform Her Honour the Vice-President that using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in Chama South, in one ward called Mapamba, where we were losing people almost every week, we managed to fence off the entire area covering a distance of 70km. We were given a budget of between K30 million and K40 million by the Frankfurt Zoological Society (FZS), but we only used K2.3 million. In that ward, people are now yearning to see an elephant. All the elephants have shifted to Lumezi, and we are discussing with the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi how we can save the people there.

Madam Speaker, my question is: What is the Government doing to supplement what the hon. Madam Speaker has just started? I am sure an effort should be a collaboration of the Ministry of Tourism and Parliament so that we make a recommendation to the Executive on the action to be taken to save our people in Chikwa, Tembwe, Sioma, Liuwa, Livingstone and many other areas which are experiencing human-animal conflicts. When will the Ministry of Tourism be informed to adhere to the directive or initiative of our hon. Madam Speaker so that we can make a report?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Chama South, who starts by acknowledging the works that are being done in Chama South, indeed, under the leadership of President Hakainde Hichilema. I am sure that every human being wants to be praised once in a while when something good happens. As the Government, we appreciate it. However, the real issue is the animal-human conflict in Chama South and other places.

Madam Speaker, I need to be guided. The hon. Member was appointed as a committee of one. Has he brought the report to the House, or is this an indirect way of bringing his report because he is a committee? Has he informed us of his findings? We cannot start responding to a committee that has not been reported on. However, congratulations for the work done and, indeed, to the hon. Madam Speaker for fencing off one ward where there were many cases of animal-human conflict, and for solving the problem in that particular ward.

Madam Speaker, certain things can be done. I am sorry, I am thinking about this matter as I am standing here. What he has done is very good for the people in Chama, but what about Lumezi? I think, it is important to think through more seriously than just fencing off a particular area because when one area is fenced off, the animals will want to survive, and they will go elsewhere. So, what happens to Lumezi? The hon. Member for Lumezi would want to fence his area as well, then the animals will go to Nyimba. By the way, I would like to congratulate my good speaker, the hon. Member for Lumezi for his debate yesterday. So, are we really resolving the issue? It is important that we do what we can, and if it works, then the Government can look at it. We should remember that this work is not really complete because the human-animal conflict will still change course and go to other areas. How then do we handle it conclusively?  I would like to thank the hon. Member for the effort and for what has been done in that ward.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. I am sure the hon. Member for Chama South is anxious to have that issue moving. However, measures are being taken. I am sure we will make them known sooner.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question.

Madam Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is working wonders in all parts of the country, including in my constituency, Kwacha. We have seen massive infrastructure development. Schools, clinics, and market shelters have been constructed in areas where none existed, among many other infrastructural developments. In addition, Zambians have been empowered with grants and loans.

Madam Speaker, the money that is being channelled towards loans, statistically, when we look at the figures, we note that people are not paying it back. This is no longer a revolving fund because the idea is that when money is provided, those who are given should pay back so that other people can also benefit. However, people are not paying back. Is the Government going to continue providing resources towards loans, or is it not high time the Government reconsidered the position and started channelling these resources to projects so that a number of people can fully benefit from the resources?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I will start by appreciating the hon. Member for his kind words to his Government. Indeed, the general phrase we use is that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is a game-changer, and he has noted the massive works that are going on. So, principally, from what the hon. Member has said, the CDF is good.

However, in its goodness, there are components that you may have concerns about. Your concern today is that loans are not being paid back. I believe it is in every constituency. If that is the case, –

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Yes, somebody is saying something. It is a mindset change issue because we borrow with the intention of not paying back. It is happening with banks and many other lending institutions and then, you want to bring an issue here that people are so indebted. I hope I am speaking about something that is here. The concern is that people are so indebted. When we borrow, we must have a repayment plan in mind. We must have a viable project for which we are borrowing. Not paying back loans is a terrible thing because it will make us fail to grow our economy. Proper businessmen borrow and pay back. When one fails to pay, then, where else are they going to go next time? It is a very unfortunate situation.

Madam Speaker, money has already been released to people and it is important to remember that this House was part of setting the conditions. This House set up a Committee that made recommendations. We have seen that the loan component of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is not working. The hon. Minister responsible is here. It is just important – I will not say it stops or let us suspend it. It should just be suspended until people who have borrowed pay back. The money should go to other projects until people are ready to borrow and pay back. I think that is the way to go. Zambians in all the constituencies are listening. Those who have been getting loans with the intention of not paying are actually called by a different name. They were not borrowing. Literally, their intention is to steal.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, the Government employed new workers in the local authorities through the Local Government Service Commission to beef up manpower, which is highly commendable. However, there has been no corresponding increase in the Equalisation Fund, which is used to pay the local government workers, especially those in management.

Madam Speaker, we have a situation whereby senior workers are staying for three or four months without being paid their salaries. The Chama Town Council is one of them and that is the trend countrywide. Does Her Honour the Vice-President think that the Government would have been more prudent to mobilise resources before employing new workers to avoid a situation whereby it employs workers and fails to pay salaries?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Chama North, who has not only spoken of the problem, but acknowledges the importance of employing and commends it, except that his concern is the conditions of service, not necessarily just remuneration, but are not in tandem with the numbers. I think, when something good is happening, let us keep it and find solutions. The picture that is painted is like it is everywhere.

Madam Speaker, there are councils that are paying every month because of the capacity to pay.  I heard the hon. Minister talk about mobilising and mopping up resources in the councils. It has been noted by this Government that councils can do a lot. I think that we can raise money in the councils and be able to pay workers. However, even without that, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development has decided to get reports of the councils that are failing to pay, so that a solution can be found, and it could be support. The ministry will look at each council and analyse, see the challenges and be able to help. So, that is what is happening. However, employing new workers was necessary, like the hon. Member put it. The local Government is not sleeping, and it has already requested that reports be sent to it so that a solution can be found.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker, thank you very much, and good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, the Kafue Flats provide vital habitation for diverse wildlife and livestock. In Lochinvar National Park, a good number of activities take place there. There is the black lechwe there and over 400 different types of birds. Animals graze in an area called Bwela, in our language, and in Namwala, they call it Shimunenga. However, rampant pasture burning threatens the ecosystem in this area. What is the Government policy on this? Further, what measures will the Government put in place to mitigate burning in this particular area?

The Vice-President: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Good morning, hon. Member for Magoye. How is Magoye?

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is concerned basically about pasture burning, not just in Kafue, but the Kafue Flats, which are a host to wildlife as well as livestock. The burning actually robs us of life. Now, the question he asked is: What measures is the Government putting in place to prevent pasture burning?

Madam Speaker, I think that burning – Where is the lawyer? There are no lawyers here today. However, generally, wanton burning can even be found to be arson because you are burning places that endanger other lives. However, this calls for sensitisation and mindset change because people think grass is nothing. We are used, year in, year out, we burn. I think, sensitisation is important. That is the way to go. A sensitisation campaign should be carried out. When we had a drought, remember, we started that. We advised people to not burn maize stalks because they are important. Therefore, I think, it is important to have a programme to sensitise the people.

Mr Emmanuel Musonda: Face the Speaker, Madam Vice-President.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Oh, okay. There is another Presiding Officer.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Thank you.

Madam Speaker, literally, it means that we have to sensitise people. Is there a law? If there is no law, we have to analyse, because we can make laws that will just bind everybody and not be easy to enforce. However, we need to look at all this. We are crying today because of climate change. In the past, there would be burning, and in other places, grass would sprout. However, at the moment, it is important that we look at the environment very carefully, and that goes to the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment, if he is here.

Let us take care of our environment, and that needs a mindset change. A change of mindset does not come from nowhere; somebody has to continuously remind people of their responsibility. Then, over time, people will appreciate the grass in the Kafue Flats and other areas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: There is a lot of debriefings and briefings going on. Let us listen to the questions so that we can also listen to the answers.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, in March this year, the Ministry of Education announced the recruitment of about 4,000 teachers. During that announcement, the country was promised that within two weeks, another announcement for more than 2,000 replacement teachers would be made. We are in July, way after the two weeks that the Government mentioned. The delay has caused a lot of anxiety, consternation and suspicions, especially among those who are expected to be recruited. Why has the Government delayed to announce the recruitment of over 2,000 teachers? Months after it promised to make the announcement in two weeks, the announcement has not been made.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, good morning to the hon. Member for Mufulira, and I thank him for that question.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has raised a concern about the recruitment of teachers. He referred to an announcement of the recruitment of teachers, which was made in March through the media, I believe. He said that another announcement about the recruitment was promised within two weeks in March, but we are in July and no announcement has been made. I think that the issue might be the choice of words, because what I know is that after recruitment, there is another opportunity. The hon. Minister is here, still clarifying things to me. In fact, the opportunity is continuous. People should not lose hope that there will be no more recruitment. Teachers also retire, die, or resign every day. Therefore, what the hon. Member referred to as an announcement for recruitment in March may not be called recruitment. It should be referred to as replacement of teachers. Where vacancies occur, replacements are made. Teachers are replaced every day. Maybe, I can even request the hon. Minister to come and tell us how many teachers have been replaced so far. Throughout the year, replacements are made. Maybe, the word ‘recruitment’ may not have been suitable. Replacement of teachers is an ongoing exercise; teachers are employed every day, but not through mass recruitment. Replacements are not announced through the media. For instance, we do not announce that five teachers have been employed and deployed to a certain place; it is quietly done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, when something of public importance occurs, it must be addressed in the best interest of the nation. I read that an audio of a conversation between a Cabinet hon. Minister and an hon. Member of Parliament, which leaked a few days ago, has found itself in the international media, particularly on DW-TV. This matter must be addressed as the audio is allegedly about bribery involving a South African High Court judge. This puts our country in a very awkward situation. Everyone is asking, if there could be an intention to bribe a South African High Court judge, how about our own Judiciary? Is it spared? That must be addressed. Not only that, many Government documents are leaking and ending up on social media. The nation must be addressed and informed about what is happening. The question to Her Honour the Vice-President is: When will the Government address the issues raised in the audio or the conversation between a Cabinet Minister and an hon. Member of Parliament, who is even in court over issues of the Patriotic Front (PF) and the Registrar of Societies?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Mpika for that question, and good morning to him.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: I am responding to you, Sir.

Mr Kapyanga: Thank you, Madam.

The Vice-President: Yes.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has raised issues of public importance. He said that when matters of public interest arise, they should be quickly addressed. He referred to an audio, except he said that he read the audio. I do not know how he read it, I am sure that he listened to the audio like all of us.

Laughter

The Vice-President: It was probably a slip of the tongue. He is a very articulate young man. He said that he read the audio.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has brought up the issue of bribing a South African High Court judge. I think that is what he has brought up. Ah!

Laughter

The Vice-President: Just listen.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: No, no. I will speak from my understanding as the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, after one listens to a conversation posted on social media, or eavesdrops, one needs to understand the full story and interpret it, whether the audio was generated by Artificial Intelligence (AI) or not.

Laughter

The Vice-President: The audio does not talk about the Government’s intention to bribe. It is a suggestion.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: I listened to it. It was a suggestion.

Madam Speaker, everyone has been making suggestions on how to deal with the funeral of our late Sixth President. The fact that someone suggests –

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Let us face it.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Kafwaya gestured a prayer.

Mr Chisopa: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mkushi South!

Hon. Member for Lunte …

The Vice-President: Your prayer will go to hell.

Madam Speaker: … and hon. Member for Lupososhi, please, pay attention. There is no need for you to continue making comments. You asked a question. Allow Her Honour the Vice-President to answer it, and listen to the answer before you make any comments.

May Her Honour the Vice-President continue.

The Vice-President: Madam, there is a saying where the hon. Member who has asked the question comes from, which says, ‘ubushiku bufwile insofu, nelyashi lya nsofu,’ which means that when something big happens, everybody speaks about the same thing. However, people do not say one thing; one person can say one thing, another can say something else. So, those were proposals and suggestions. The audio did not say that there is a Government position. Please, the hon. Member should listen to the audio again. I have listened to the audio. Unless I missed it, the audio does not say that the Government has decided to bribe a judge in South Africa. That is not in the audio. So, the hon. Member should not add to it.

He should face the reality and see things as they are. However, to say that the Government is saying that we should go and bribe somebody is something else. It was a conversation between two people who were dreaming and fantasising like all hon. Members have done before, …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … including me.

Madam Speaker, if you asked me, I was going to find a solution, but, maybe, it was not going to work. So, when one listens to two people talking, one should not take it as the Government’s position. Ubushiku bufwile insofu, nelyashi lya nsofu. Just know that everybody will be talking about a big man.

Madam Speaker, I just feel bad that the hon. Member also notes that there is a leakage of Government documents. That should stop. Taking classified information to the public, other than being an illegality, is immoral. That should not be done. How much eavesdropping are we going to do? There is also an issue of privacy. Hon. Members must be careful. What is their proposal regarding the death and burial of our late President? Maybe, they have also commented on serious matters privately. They have uttered things. Let us search ourselves. I know that cangwa, baseka uwacelwa. We only laugh at the one who gets caught. What have hon. Members said in their hearts? Some want to use the funeral for this and that. We may all be guilty of having said or even thought something. However, that is not the Government’s position.

Can you un-pray now (pointed at Mr Kapyanga).

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, that side (pointed at the Opposition hon. Members), can we, please, maintain some order. Otherwise, you will be excused.

Mr Emmanuel Musonda (Lupososhi): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government claims to be a Government of laws. All the former Vice-Presidents of the Republic of Zambia are paid K80,000 monthly. They are provided with sports utility vehicles (SUVs) and Government drivers, which draws money from the national Treasury. When former Presidents of this country, who have diligently served this country, decide to return to politics, the Government revokes their benefits. In the meantime, it pays all the former Vice-Presidents, including those who are still active in politics and have an alliance with the UPND Government, K80,000, provides brand new 4 x 4 vehicles and drivers. My question is: Which law is the Government using to draw money from the national Treasury, which is taxpayers’ money, to pay former Vice-Presidents, including those who are still active political party presidents, like the President of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD)?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisopa: Adjournment!

Mr Kapyanga: Nweniko na menshi, mayo.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the proposal is not fair. We should have adjourned before I started answering questions.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Lupososhi for the question. His concern is that former Vice-Presidents of the Republic of Zambia are on a salary, and he has mentioned a figure –

Hon. Member: K80,000!

The Vice-President: K80,000? Oh, okay. He has also mentioned other conditions like vehicles and so on and so forth. I think, he may have information that he should avail to us. I am not aware of the K80,000 he has talked about. I am not aware that anybody is being paid because they are a former Vice-President. I am aware that many former Vice-Presidents have been appointed as special envoys. So, if anything is going to them, it is because they are envoys. It does not mean that when Nalumango leaves this position, she will be on that incentive automatically because there is no law that states as such, unless the House makes one, of course. It means that those people have a special responsibility of being envoys. I cannot agree to the figure. They are paid as special envoys, not as former Vice-Presidents. Nobody is being paid under that category. That is what I know.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chipili, you may proceed.

Mr Chala rose.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Bozi Boziana!

Mr Kapyanga: Kanda Bongo Man!

Laughter

Mr Chala (Chipili): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, there is a saying in Bemba, “Umupama pamo watulile ing’oma”, meaning that when people are talking about something over and over, it will be done. My question is on the gold deposits that we have discovered in this country. Why is it that the Government cannot own two or three sites and start processing gold, which is not difficult compared to processing copper? Why should we ask investors from outside, instead of the Government taking at least three sites, which can be 50 ha each, for example? I am sure the hon. Member for Kalabo Central can cry on my behalf because he is very concerned. The Government can raise money from doing that, and there would be no need to borrow money from other countries.

Madam Speaker, my question is: Bushe abatulowa nibani so that we stop thinking in the right direction, whereby the Government can take part in processing copper, which is not difficult, but about investors? Why can the Government not partner with the locals, those who are being given licences? The Government has the money. It can borrow money for investment, not for consumption. Abatulowa nibani? That is the question I want Her Honour the Vice-President to answer. When people are not in power, they explain how they can run the Government, but when they are given power, they fail to do what they were explaining. They do something different. Abatulowa nibani?

Mr Munsanje: Question!

Mr Chisopa: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Chipili, you said, “Bushe ­”. What does it mean? You used some Bemba words.

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, I was trying to say that who has bewitched us in not doing certain things that we are supposed to do, which are right? Nibani? We want to know. We are failing to do what we are supposed to do. Gold is everywhere in Zambia. If we would take that responsibility as Government, we would make billions of United States (US) Dollars.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chipili, for giving us yet another opportunity to find out who the witches are here. Who has bewitched us, as a nation? That is his question. Who has bewitched this nation that we are failing to harness the mineral resources that God has given us? Instead, we are allowing them to just be taken out. If you read the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) report, you will see that this is actually contributing to money laundering. This Government, through the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, has spoken of what it intends to do to harness the mineral resource for the good of this country. It is just that sometimes, when we are speaking to one another about these issues, some choose to not listen, and others decide to do other things. Right here in Parliament, we have started enacting laws that should help us to properly harness our mineral resources. One example is the Minerals Regulation Commission Act.  I can loosely say that there is an outbreak of gold.

Madam Speaker, we have lived in Zambia for a long time, and we have seen different Governments come and go.  We did not know that there was so much gold. Therefore, we thought we were a copper mining country and we took care of the copper. People were asking why we were concentrating on copper. It was because the knowledge we had was that we have copper. Five or six years ago, we did not know that the North-Western Province was a gold belt. We still thought it was a copper belt.

Madam Speaker, normally, in the village, if one wants to catch a witch, one would go for the older ones. Those are the ones they would accuse of being witches. So today, who are the older ones? It will be the Patriotic Front (PF) Government.

Laughter

The Vice-President: I mean, we are talking in terms of Governments. The old Governments, or maybe, it is Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). However, the PF Government was in power when this discovery of massive gold began. We have found it. It is even getting bigger, and for us, we are not sitting back. What he is proposing is actually our proposal too. What are we calling these minerals, hon. Minister? We call these minerals by a special name, “critical minerals”.  We want to treat the issues of minerals differently. However, we have to first be clear. We do not just say, “Own this.” We intend to own mines, as a nation. We have encouraged private individuals, including yourself to do so. Anybody can venture into mining, but it seems artisanal mining has its own issues. And yes, we want to help artisanal small-scale miners to settle. Colleagues, mining is not just something you do like abra kadabra. We are working on ensuring that our Government, our nation benefits from the minerals. Just listen to what the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development has been saying. In fact, there are ring-fenced areas. There should be ring-fenced mining atonements that should be left for the Government and its partners. When I say partners, you think of somebody from very far. No, no, no, no. You can be a partner because you have the capacity and the training, and we have many, trained people who trained together with the others., You understand what I mean when I say “others”.

Madam Speaker, we will do that, but let us do it in an orderly manner, not just to go and say, “this is now ours”. That will amount to grabbing things from other people. Let us do it orderly, and this is why we have asked this House, through the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security that none of us, as leaders, should have a dissenting voice because we should all fight the illegal mining. We should fight it. It is not benefiting even the people who have established fake companies, neither is it benefitting the artisanal small-scale miners. Check their accounts. Read the FIC report. It says there is no benefit. So, do not support illegalities. Let us work together to find solutions. You are human, you are thinking, you have something. Come, whisper to him, whisper to me so that we can put our minds together. We have never claimed to have the monopoly of wisdom or knowledge. Please, you are welcome. We only have this one Zambia. What do you think? Thank you for the proposal. It is on our minds, but we cannot do it overnight. We have to do it well, and within the law. That is what we are.

Madam Speaker, thank you very much.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

SAFETY OF THE ZAMBIA AIRWAYS FLIGHTS

392. Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa) asked the Minister of Transport and Logistics:

1. whether the Government is aware of the concerns by passengers over the deteriorating quality and safety of the Zambia Airways flights;
2.  if so, what urgent measures are being taken to prevent a potential aviation disaster;
3.  how frequent the airline’s aircrafts are serviced;
4. whether current maintenance practices of the aircrafts meet international safety standards;
5. whether the Government has any plans to acquire additional aircrafts to improve operational capacity and safety; and 
6. if there are no such plans, why.

The hon. Member for Kasenengwa accidentally directed the question at Her Honour the Vice-President before he made the correction.

Madam Speaker: The problem of not paying attention or of appearing to be here when infact, not here. Thank you very much hon. Member for Kasenengwa.

Laughter

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that Zambia Airways (2014) Limited has demonstrated strong performance and continued passenger confidence based on actual operational data. The airline recorded a 44 per cent increase on passenger traffic from 2023 to 2024 and a further 25 per cent growth in the first half of 2025 compared to the same period in 2024. Key operational indicators remain solid, with an on-time performance (OTP) of 91.36 per cent and aircraft dispatch reliability at 99.9 per cent during the first half of 2025.

Madam Speaker, the airline continues to fully comply with all safety and quality standards mandated by the Zambian Civil Aviation Authority (ZCAA) and other relevant regulatory bodies. Maintaining its air operator certificate (AOC) requires strict adherence to these standards, and Zambia Airways (2014) Limited has met all such requirements. This is evidenced by the absence of any regulatory penalties, fines, or incidents of aircraft being grounded due to non-compliance.

The continued growth in passenger numbers and improved market share, both on domestic and regional routes, also reflects strong safety assurance and sustained public confidence in the operations of Zambia Airways (2014) Limited.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that Zambia Airways is regulated by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and is issued with operating permits. Zambia Airways (2014) Limited continues to prioritise safety through strict adherence to regulatory standards, routine and preventive maintenance, continuous crew training and real-time monitoring of all its operations. These proactive measures require that the highest levels of safety are maintained at all times.

Madam Speaker, maintenance services for Zambia Airways (2014) Limited are currently provided by Ethiopian Airlines Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul (ET-MRO), a world-renowned and highly experienced maintenance, repair and overhaul organisation. ET-MRO is an approved maintenance organisation certified by the CAA, ensuring that all maintenance activities are conducted in full compliance with National Aviation Safety Standards. The company’s reputation for quality, reliability and technical expertise further reinforces Zambia Airway’s commitment to maintaining the highest levels of airworthiness and operational safety.

Madam Speaker, Zambia Airways (2014) Limited follows a structured and proactive aircraft maintenance programme with scheduled maintenance forming the foundation of its safety and reliability strategy. The airline conducts regular A Checks approximately every month, involving detailed inspections of critical systems, avionics, hydraulics and structured components to ensure ongoing airworthiness. In addition, more comprehensive C Checks are performed roughly every eighteen months. These checks are significantly more extensive, requiring partial disassembly of the aircraft and several days to complete. Both types of checks are carried out in strict accordance with the aircraft manufacturer’s maintenance planning documents and regulatory requirements.

Madam Speaker, the scheduled maintenance activities are essential for renewing each aircraft’s certificate of airworthiness (AOC) and are closely supervised by the CAA. The activities are designed to pre-emptively identify and resolve potential issues, thereby minimising operational risks and ensuring full compliance with safety standards.

Madam Speaker, in parallel with scheduled maintenance, Zambia Airways (2014) Limited maintains high standards in daily operational oversight. After every flight, pilots record any technical observations or irregularities in the aircraft’s logbook. The remarks are reviewed and resolved by qualified maintenance technicians before the aircraft is dispatched for its next flight. Both the pilot and technician must sign off on each resolved issue ensuring a clear chain of accountability and continuous operational integrity.

Madam Speaker, through such a disciplined approach to maintenance, combining scheduled checks with real-time issue resolution, Zambia Airways (2014) Limited upholds its commitment to the highest levels of safety, reliability and regulatory compliance.

Madam Speaker, Zambia Airways (2014) Limited has concrete plans to expand its fleet as part of its broader strategy to enhance operational capacity, improve service delivery and maintain the highest safety standards. Under the airline’s five-year strategic plan, which is from 2025 to 2029, the airline intends to add at least one aircraft to its fleet each year. This phased fleet expansion aligns with projected passenger demand, planned route growth and the airline’s commitment to operational efficiency. The fleet growth strategy also supports the airline’s objective to expand its presence across Africa, targeting underserved markets and exploring new route opportunities. By steadily increasing its capacity, Zambia Airways (2014) Limited will be better positioned to meet growing travel demand, while maintaining flexibility in operations and service reliability. Zambia Airways plans to add one plane every year, starting from 2025. The airline also continues to prioritise safety by integrating newer and more efficient aircrafts and adhering to strict maintenance and regulatory standards.

Madam Speaker, part (e) falls off in view of the response given to part (d) of the question.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I want to appreciate the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics for the detailed response that he has given to my question. It was more like a Ministerial Statement.

Madam Speaker, there has been very bad feedback on Zambia Airways. Almost 90 per cent of people who fly Zambia Airways, other than the fare, which is very attractive, have come back with very bad feedback. I want the hon. Minister to assure the nation and prospective passengers on the measures that are going to be put in place so that passengers who fly Zambia Airways – before I say that, I must refer to the 44 per cent sales increment that was mentioned by the hon. Minister. I might have missed something, but 44 per cent sounds very good. So, I want the hon. Minister to assure the public that the 44 per cent growth will be sustained or even increased. If the feedback is bad, then we do not have good reference for anyone who wants to fly Zambia Airways. Further, it means that we do not have repeat customers or those who have flown Zambia Airways before may not want to do that again. Even top Government officials who may want to fly Zambia Airways to promote their interests would not. They would prefer to fly on a foreign airline. What assurance is the hon. Minister offering to passengers of Zambia Airways so that we sustain the 44 per cent sales growth or, perhaps, even increase it.

Ms Kasune: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Minister of Justice, what is your point of order?

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, my matter relates to the way we come to Parliament as hon. Members and it is premised on Standing Orders No. 16 of 2024. I want to know whether the hon. Member for Chipili is in order to come to the House in the manner he is dressed. Hon. Milupi was trying to figure out whether we are at a traditional ceremony, but even then, the hon. Member for Chipili’s attire would not meet such a criterion because he is wearing a suit and shoes that look like he is part of a Congolese jazz band.

Laughter

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, we are wondering whether he is from Congo or he is a Zambian. Given that Standing Order on how hon. Members should dress, we need a serious ruling. I wonder if the Whips are doing their job because the hon. Member does not look like he belongs to this House, but I stand corrected.

Madam Speaker, the House needs a serious ruling on that matter.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister has referred to Standing Order No. 16.

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, Standing Order No. 216.

Madam Speaker: Okay, Standing Order No. 216. Thank you very much.

I have observed the dressing of the hon. Member for Chipili. That is his nature. He always stands out in white; always crisp and clean.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Let us see the dress that he is wearing. Maybe, he should stand up.

Mr Chala rose.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: You can turn around.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Those are what we call tails in the House of Commons. He is dressed like a Member of Parliament in the House of Commons. It is only that they wear black, but he is still alright. I think, he is well-dressed. It is okay. Let us encourage people who want to be smart. So, the hon. Member for Chipili is in order.

Keep it up, hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has asked what assurance I am able to give regarding Zambia Airways’ capacity to maintain the growth projection of 44 per cent that has been made. Obviously, we hope to grow that, going forward.

Madam Speaker, comfort must lie in the fact that Zambia’s Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), the institution tasked with the mandate of maintaining the highest level of civil aviation operations in our country, is doing a very good job. As you may be aware, civil aviation is a field that is stringently regulated by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and, recently, the organisation conducted an audit in the country. After the audit by ICAO, Zambia had a resounding performance; it beat both regional and global competitors in compliance regarding operations of airlines within our country. The strictest standards are upheld. Contrary to what the hon. Member said, I assure the hon. Member that, as Minister of Transport and Logistics, whenever I travel, I prefer to fly Zambia Airways. We who are privileged to have constituencies with international airports fly Zambia Airways to our constituencies. Whenever I am going to Johannesburg, I prefer flying Zambia Airways because I have confidence in our national flag carrier.  I will tell him that.

Mr Mulusa: Even Mfuwe.

Mr Tayali: Of course, even Mfuwe.

Madam Speaker, Zambia Airways is doing a very good job; numbers do not lie. The hon. Member insinuated that the airline used a Bombardier Q400 to fly to Johannesburg as opposed to the Boeing 737. For obvious reasons, the domestic leg may have more people than the flight to Johannesburg. Zambia Airways is doing very well, and that is why we project that we will continue to grow. This year, we are going to bring in another aircraft because of the growing confidence that the Zambian people have in their flag carrier.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. I see that a number of hon. Members have indicated to ask questions. If hon. Members had been listening to the statement or the response, they would have known that the hon. Minister covered many issues that were raised.

The next question will be asked by the hon. Member for Kamfinsa.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics has spent quite a lot of time explaining technical issues, such as how aeroplanes are maintained, which garage they go to, and what skills are available. Those are technical issues that we quite appreciate. However, the reality is that there have been instances when people have booked a flight on Zambia Airways and waited for an aeroplane, but an aeroplane never arrived on time; they were told that they would use another aeroplane in twenty hours. I think, hon. Members of Parliament have also been subjected to such incidents while travelling out of the country to support the airline. So, in reality, we still have challenges. Despite the operational issues having been adequately addressed in the statement, the reality is that we still have one or two things that still need to be attended to, that affect the availability of aeroplanes at appointed times. The hon. Minister is in charge of this particular sector. Has he sat down with the people running the airline to discuss how they are addressing those complaints? We want those complaints to go away. When people arrive at the airport ready to board an aeroplane, it should be available so that we support Zambia Airways. What is the ministry doing to deal with the issue of availability of aeroplanes?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, here is the deal. The hon. Member has spoken to a situation that is actually normal in civil aviation because of the stringency attached to safety issues. That is not just peculiar to Zambia Airways. There are times when even long-haul carriers may delay a departure because something may indicate a fault on an aircraft, so an airline will not take the risk to take off and endanger the lives of passengers. That has happened a few times, as far as Zambia Airways is concerned. Now, this just goes to show the seriousness that we attach to safety. Safety must always be the priority.

Madam Speaker, I am glad that the hon. Member talked about operational issues. They may also be attributed to the deficit in the number of aircrafts, and that is why I am saying that it is imperative that we add to the fleet so that we reduce delays that occur. Zambia Airways is actually on top of things, and as Minister, I have taken a keen interest in seeing that the airline is responding to passenger demands. The numbers are telling us, once again, that 99.9 per cent dispatch reliability is something worthy of commendation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the passion that he has shown for Zambia Airways. Indeed, we want it to be a success story.

Madam Speaker, I flew once on Zambia Airways, and I have a picture here. I think, I asked the hon. Minister a question last time. One time when I flew Zambia Airways, we were just about to start descending when all of a sudden, the aeroplane had a depression, and those things that help you to breathe came out. It was my first time to have such an experience. Now, these are the things happening at the airline. Complaints are coming from people. Technocrats have written things for the hon. Minister. There has been a complaint about the age of the aeroplane used for the Johannesburg route. Proflight is an airline too, but why does it not have such problems? That is what the ministry should be asking. So, as the hon. Minister leaves this place, what is he going to do to address the concerns that we have brought out?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very practical question based on an unfortunate experience that he experienced, when he flew Zambia Airways and then the aeroplane experienced a sudden depression.

There is no doubt that the hon. Member is a frequent flyer. He knows, first of all, that what he experienced was not a failure in any one of the engines. He may have experienced a sudden drop in altitude, which would be because the aircraft flew into an air pocket. That can happen to any aircraft. I was flying to Bangkok on an Emirates flight when that happened. It is nothing untoward. If, indeed, the aircraft responded by dropping the oxygen masks, it shows you that the equipment works. If one is going to be a flyer, one must not be scared of such experiences. That is normal in civil aviation. We should not alarm the nation unnecessarily. If I was told that while one was on a flight from Johannesburg, suddenly both engines stopped, I would equally join that person in calling for the grounding of such an aircraft. However, that was not the case. That is why, prior to any departure, passengers are run through all the things that can potentially occur on a flight. That is not cosmetic. Passengers must be constantly reminded that, at one point, oxygen masks may be required and they need to know how to react in such situations.

 

Madam Speaker, Zambia’s civil aviation record remains impeccable, particularly under this Administration. The House may recall that we are coming from a time when we were banned, and that was way back in 2012. Zambia was banned such that, had we had an aircraft capable of reaching Europe, it would not have been allowed to enter the European airspace. That is not the case anymore. If any company brought equipment capable of flying to Europe, it would be allowed to enter the European airspace.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I will not ask the question I had planned to ask earlier. I am compelled to ask the hon. Minister to shed more light on another issue. He mentioned something, though not in detail, which can give many people confidence. So, I want him to add a bit more meat. Why change an aircraft at the last minute? When people think that they are using a bigger aircraft, all of a sudden, there is a swap. What does that mean for passengers, especially when it happens on a regional leg like the Lusaka/Johannesburg route? Maybe, details can give people more confidence because, at the end of the day, we want to promote our national carrier. So, we need to give people an assurance. The hon. Minister has also mentioned a few other things, except that, maybe, he has so much to say. So, he is not adding details to those things. However, on that particular issue, I would be happy if he did so. I hope he understands what I am talking about.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is referring to instances in which, during operations, there are two aircrafts. For example, one aircraft would be scheduled to fly to Ndola, that is the Q400, and then a Boeing 737 would be scheduled to fly to Johannesburg around the same time. Then, management realises that only twenty passengers are flying to Johannesburg on that fateful day, compared to those who are flying to Ndola, who may be around 100 passengers. It is simply common sense that in order to maintain operational profitability, the aircrafts should be swapped. The Q400, which was scheduled to fly to Ndola, may be required to fly the fewer passengers to Johannesburg, and the Boeing 737, which has bigger capacity, may then take the domestic leg. That is purely an operational issue so that the airline does not make losses.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, please, engage the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics on the sidelines. We need to make progress. We are behind time.

_______

GROUPED QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

RATIFYING THE AFRICAN DISABILITY PROTOCOL

393. Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata) (on behalf of Mr Munsanje (Mbabala)) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

1. whether the Government has any plans to ratify and domesticate the African Disability Protocol; and
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

STATUTORY INSTRUMENT TO OPERATIONALISE PROVISION OF SERVICES TO PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES

 

394. Mr Tayengwa asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services: 

1. why the Government has not issued a Statutory Instrument (SI) to operationalise the provision of services to persons with disabilities, as required by the Persons with Disabilities Act No. 6 of 2012; 
2. whether the Government has any plans to amend the Act; and
3. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu) (on behalf of the Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Ms D. Mwamba): Madam Speaker, as you have indicated, these are grouped questions. I always tell my fellow hon. Members to be attentive so that they do not –

Interruptions

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, the Government recognises the importance of ratifying regional and international instruments that are designed to protect and promote the rights and dignity of persons with disabilities. The African Disability Protocol is one such instrument. The protocol provides a robust and contextually appropriate legal framework that addresses the unique barriers faced by persons with disabilities on the African continent. It also promotes the principles of equality, social justice and inclusive development. In this regard, I wish to inform this House that the Government is firmly committed to ratifying the protocol. This commitment is not merely symbolic, but a reflection of our ongoing efforts to build a society in which no one is left behind, especially persons living with disabilities.

Madam Speaker, the ministry has already initiated the process towards ratification by seeking legal clearance from the Attorney-General. Once that clearance is granted, we will proceed with the next phase, which involves broad-based consultations with stakeholders, including organisations of persons with disabilities, civil society actors and co-operating partners, to ensure that the process is transparent, inclusive and aligned to national priorities.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was answering part (b) of the question on when the plans to ratify the African Disability Protocol will be implemented.

Madam Speaker, on whether the Government has any plans to domesticate the Protocol, I wish to clarify that the Government is also mindful of the need to integrate the provisions of the African Disability Protocol into our national legal framework. This will ensure that its principles are not only acknowledged but also actionable at the national level. To this end, domestication of the protocol is envisaged as part of the broader review or the amendment process of the Persons with Disabilities Act No. 6 of 2012.

Madam Speaker, plans will be implemented during the review of the Persons with Disabilities Act, which is scheduled for 2026. It is within this review process that the Government will actively consider provisions of the African Disability Protocol for incorporation into the revised legislation.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I wish to reaffirm that the Government remains very committed to advancing the rights of persons with disabilities through both legislative action and policy reform. The ratification and eventual domestication of the African Disability Protocol will form an integral part of the efforts as we continue to promote an inclusive and rights-based approach to national development.

Madam Speaker, as regards Question No. 394, asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata, I wish to assure this august House that the Government remains fully committed to the full implementation of the landmark legislation. In line with this commitment, my ministry has already developed five draft Statutory Instruments (SIs) to give effect to the key provisions of the Act. These instruments are designed to address the critical areas such as access to education, health, information, physical infrastructure and transport and employment.

Madam Speaker, following the drafting process, the proposed SIs were duly submitted to the Ministry of Justice for clearance. However, we were advised to undertake further consultations due to the financial and operational implications that the regulations would have on various implementing agencies, especially given that we are now in the world of full consultations. We were told to ensure that we consult fully so that the implementing agencies can have an input.

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to report that we have made substantial progress in this regard. Clearance has also been secured from the ministries responsible for education, transport and logistics, information and media, and infrastructure, housing and urban development.

We are finalising consultations with the Ministry of Labour and Social Security.

Interruptions

Mr Nkandu: Yes!

Madam Speaker, these include engagements with the Zambia Federation of Employers (ZFE), particularly around the proposal to reserve, and I repeat: particularly, on the issue of a 10 per cent employment quota for persons with disabilities. I am happy to inform the House that this matter has been constructively addressed and we are now awaiting the final concurrence from the ZFE. A meeting, to this effect was held, where the matter was concluded.

In addition, the Ministry of Health has also provided valuable input on the Statutory (SI) related to health services. These contributions are currently being incorporated to ensure that the final regulations are both practical and very inclusive. Moreover, the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities (ZAPD) developed accessibility standards through a consultative process. It was collectively agreed that structural instruments should be harmonised with these standards to ensure consistency in their application, and also, the accessibility standards have since been finalised. The Government remains resolute in its efforts to operationalise the Persons with Disabilities Act in a manner that is, firstly, inclusive, consultative and sustainable.

Madam Speaker, on whether the Government has plans to amend the Act, I wish to confirm that your Government does intend to review the Persons with Disabilities Act No. 6 of 2012. This is in line with the aspirations of the 2025 National Policy for Persons with Disabilities, which recognises the need for a strengthened legal and institutional framework to more effectively protect the rights of persons with disabilities. This policy explicitly provides for a review, repeal and enactment of relevant legislation to create a more enabling environment for the full participation of persons with disabilities in all spheres of life.

Madam Speaker, as to when the amendment process will begin, I wish to inform the House that the process to review this piece of legislation is scheduled to commence in 2026, as indicated. This timeline allows for adequate preparation, stakeholder engagement, and alignment with the finalised accessibility standards and emerging priorities outlined in the 2025 Policy.

I want to conclude, Madam Speaker, by re-affirming the Government's unwavering commitment of ensuring that no one is left behind. We shall continue to work collaboratively with all stakeholders to ensure that the legal and policy environment in Zambia upholds the values of dignity, equality and inclusion for all.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa: I am grateful, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, if you read the Disability Bill No. 6 of 2012, you will note that without the Statutory Instrument (SI) being signed, some of the rights that persons with disabilities are supposed to enjoy will not be enjoyed. For instance, if you look at some of the infrastructure that we have constructed under the supervision of the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, you will see that they are not accessible by persons with disabilities. That is why people have been calling on the Government to issue a SI for this Bill.

Madam Speaker, in the absence of the same SI, what strategies has the Government put in place to ensure that persons with disabilities enjoy their rights?

Mr Nkandu: Thank you very much, hon. Member, for the follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, the Government is very sensitive to the plight of the vulnerable people in society. Those living with disability also fall under the vulnerability category.

Madam Speaker, the Government and the ministry in particular has made some deliberate policies. The House may be aware that this is one Government that has paid attention to employing our colleagues with disabilities. When the Ministry of Education was employing, it had to consider that some teachers living with disabilities needed to be employed also. That is why the 10 per cent is being contested.

Madam Speaker, we have not reached that 10 per cent target, and that might be the reason the ZFE is complaining Every time we are employing, we may not find those who are qualified. It is not just a question of employing people, but qualifications come into play. So that is the reason. I am just trying to touch on that so that we understand that we have deliberate moves as a Government to make our colleagues who are living with disabilities comfortable once employed. Apart from that, we are also now talking to those who own infrastructure about how they can adjust. So, those are issues that have prevented us from promptly coming up with an SI. There are also issues of who bears the cost when you are adjusting the building. So, it is not something that we can just promptly do, but it needs a lot of consultation.

Apart from that, Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may be aware that the President has also appointed our colleagues living with disabilities to many commissions. This is the first time that Zambia has looked at our colleagues living with disabilities as people who can also be part of decision-making. In fact, I can even mention one person living with disabilities, Mr John Chiti, as one of those who have been employed and he is now working with none of the commissions. We have other persons with disabilities working for the Human Rights Commission.  So, these are some of the deliberate policies in place, even as we come up with an SI. Right now, we are doing a lot of consultations so that as we come up with that SI. It should be very inclusive so that people can appreciate it.

I thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, like I indicated earlier, the Persons with Disabilities Act No. 6 of 2012 was enacted almost twelve to thirteen years ago. So, time has passed. We have seen many Acts that have actually been operationalised within the shortest period of time. However, the Persons with Disabilities Act No. 6 of 2012 has taken long and the persons living with disabilities are asking what the cause of delay to sign this Act is because thirteen years is way too much. The Act was enacted in 2012, yet, there has not been an SI to give it effect. The hon. Ministers responsible for education, transport and logistics and information and media have not followed up to establish why the SI has not been issued. So, what could be the cause of the delay that can take thirteen years from the time the Act was enacted, yet nothing has been done in terms of operationalising it?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that important follow-up question, and I agree with him that indeed the world has evolved.

Madam Speaker, when we talk about evolution, we talk about societal, cultural and technological progress, as well as advanced systems. I believe that the hon. Member is very aware that in this country, we have many Acts that are very old. In fact, this one is very new; it is from 2012. Look at the National Youth Development Council Act of 1949 and the Sports Council of Zambia Act. These are very old or archaic Acts. So, indeed, as I said earlier, I really sympathise with our colleagues, but I believe that something is being done. We have even given a timeframe that in 2026, we are going to amend this important Act. We do not want anyone to be left behind, so we are having a lot of consultation on the Bill. When the Bill is presented, we do not want hon. Members to say that there was a lack of consultation. We want everyone involved to be consulted so that we produce an Act that will incorporate all the views of the major stakeholders who will present their views.

Mr Munsanje entered the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Nkandu: So, I really sympathise with the hon. Member, and I thank him for being good-hearted to persons living with disabilities. Something is being done, and we will come back to the House very soon to talk about it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I wanted the hon. Minister to finish speaking.

Madam Speaker, let me speak in a second. I will drink water.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are not ready?

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, no, I just want to drink water.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are not ready?

Mr Munsanje: Let me just drink some water.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay.

We can call you to speak later.

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I thank the Acting hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services for the responses.

Madam Speaker, the question is very straightforward: When will the Government operationalise the Persons with Disabilities Act of 2012 by issuing a Statutory Instrument? The hon. Minister’s response was about amendments which are expected in 2026. The Persons with Disabilities Act, as the hon. Member for Kabwata said, has provisions, for instance, relating to access to buildings and other infrastructure. We do not need to wait for amendments for that. I expected the hon. Minister to give a clear answer, and then the amendments could come later. You cannot amend something which you have not operationalised.

Madam Speaker, that was just a comment.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question? Is it a comment?

Mr E. Tembo: That was a comment because I did not want to raise a point of order.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Go straight to your question.

Mr. E. Tembo: My question is very straightforward.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister referred to Government policy and other things. The hon. Minister represents the Government in this House. What is the policy for appointing people who are disabled, particularly as District Commissioners (DCs), Permanent Secretaries (PSs) and foreign dignitaries such as First Secretaries and High Commissioners?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Feira for that follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, I believe that the hon. Member was in the House when I answered that question. I was very clear. I am happy that he has asked what we are doing as the Government. Since I am in the Government, I think that I need to render some lessons to my hon. Colleague. When the Government comes up with a policy, it also has to amend some laws to align them with what the policy intends to achieve. So, I said that the policy is done, but we are now in the process of consultations. I talked about the amendment of the Act because it is in line with what we have started doing. It is just a process that is supposed to follow. The question was: In the absence of a Statutory Instrument (SI) that he talked about, what are we doing? I answered the question. This Government has a very big heart for our colleagues who are living with disabilities. Our colleagues can attest that we have appointed these individuals to different commissions and boards because we have a heart for them. In the absence of the SI, which we are now in the process of consulting with other stakeholders, we feel that they could also play a critical role in coming up with the SI which will not be disputed. I mentioned 2026 as the timeline for the SI. By then, we would have done proper consultations.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, my apologies, I was being attended to at the hospital.

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the comprehensive answer; it was extremely well-informed. Now, I am aware that the ministry has begun consultations with President Hakainde Hichilema. There is supposed to be a quarterly feedback to His Excellency, and we want to see progress. Is there a timeline or road map that the ministry has for the ratification of the Protocol to the African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities in Africa for feedback both to the State and non-state actors?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, that question is part (b) of the question on the Order Paper, which is talking about when the plans will be implemented. I think, it is almost the same question. I said that we have initiated the process of ratification. All we are doing now is just seeking clearance from the Attorney-General. Once we get feedback from the Attorney-General, we are going to make sure that the protocol is domesticated because it is very progressive. So, as a country, we should ratify it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: My apologies to the remaining three hon. Members who have indicated to ask questions. We are behind time. We have two Motions and two Bills to consider.

______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON PARASTATAL BODIES ON THE REPORT OF THE AUDITOR-GENERAL, ON THE ACCOUNTS OF PARASTATAL BODIES AND OTHER STATUTORY INSTITUTIONS, FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR ENDED 31^ST DECEMBER, 2023

Dr Chilufya (Mansa Central): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House adopts the Report of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies on the Report of the Auditor-General, on the Accounts of Parastatal Bodies and Other Statutory Institutions, for the Financial Year Ended 31^st December, 2023, for the Fourth Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 23^rd July, 2025.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, in accordance with the terms of reference, as contained in Orders No. 205 and 206 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, the Committee considered the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts of Parastatal Bodies and Other Statutory Institutions for the Financial Year Ended 31^st December, 2023. The Committee, therefore, has the rare honour and privilege to present its findings before the House.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that twenty-two entities were cited in the report of the Auditor-General. In order to acquaint itself with the queries cited, the Committee interacted with various controlling officers of the cited entities, who tendered both written and oral submissions. I would like to believe that hon. Members of this august House have already perused through the report and, on that premise, I will endeavour to highlight only a few pertinent issues that emanated from the Committee’s deliberations.

Madam Speaker, the Committee observed with deep concern the persistent weaknesses in corporate governance, inter alia, the absence of boards of directors across several public institutions and statutory bodies. As the House may already be aware, effective governance is the cornerstone of sound institutional performance. Therefore, compromised governance regrettably paves the way for mismanagement, inefficiency and a troubling lack of accountability. Of note, institutions such as the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), Workers Compensation Fund Control Board (WCFCB), Kafubu Water and Sanitation Company (KWSC) Limited and Mulonga Water and Sanitation Company (MWSC) have no boards.

Madam Speaker, I will focus on the Levy Mwanawasa Medical University (LMMU). The Committee is concerned that the LMMU has continued to operate without a full council. That not only contravenes the provisions of the Higher Education Act No. 4 of 2013, but also presents a significant governance vacuum. The Committee, therefore, strongly urges the controlling officers in the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Education to take immediate steps to address this cross-governance gap and ensure compliance with the law. The Committee further urges respective controlling officers to ensure boards are constituted at NAPSA, the WCFCB, the KWSC and the MWSC.

Madam Speaker, the Committee also observed that several institutions failed to meet their obligations regarding payment of terminal benefits to former employees. The affected institutions and corresponding outstanding amounts are as follows:

1. Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST), K118.56 million;
2. National Housing Authority (NHA), K9.7 million; and
3. Local Authority Superannuation Fund (LASF), K119.67 million.

Madam Speaker, the failure to meet this important obligation has caused considerable financial hardships among retirees, many of whom solely rely on the benefits for their livelihoods. Moreover, continued non-payment exposes the institutions to potential legal claims and reputational damage. The Committee strongly urges the controlling officers and the Ministry of Technology and Science, the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to prioritise the settlement of those obligations and establish sustainable mechanisms to prevent the accumulation of arrears in the future.

Madam Speaker, another serious anomaly the Committee noted was the significant failure in revenue collection across several key public institutions. Notably, the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) recorded uncollected revenue amounting to K430.2 million, while LASF failed to collect K228.8 million. These figures point to a systemic breakdown in debt recovery mechanisms, weaknesses in internal controls and a general lack of enforcement of financial discipline. As this House may be aware, a failure to collect revenue that is duly owed not only jeopardises the financial sustainability of the affected institutions, but also erodes the Government’s fiscal space, which limits the Government’s ability to fund essential public services such as health, education and infrastructure. In this regard, the Committee strongly urges relevant controlling officers to enhance revenue collection, enforce debt accountability and take immediate corrective actions to safeguard public resources.

Madam Speaker, let me briefly comment on the Committee’s benchmarking tour to the Republic of Kenya, where the Committee was privileged to visit the Inspectorate of State Corporations. That institution is responsible for monitoring governance and operational efficiency across state-owned enterprises. The inspectorate conducts investigations, recommends surcharges, where necessary, and works in close collaboration with anti-corruption agencies to uphold integrity and accountability within public institutions. The Committee recommends that the Government considers establishing an independent inspectorate, which should operate in similar lines to that of Kenya. Such a body should be given a clear mandate of inspecting, evaluating and enforcing good governance across all state enterprises. This measure is expected to enhance institutional compliance, deter misuse of public resources and contribute significantly to restoring public confidence.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Committee, I wish to urge all controlling officers to ensure that all the statutory bodies promulgated under the various laws have functional and competent boards at all times. I further urge the controlling officers of respective institutions to ensure that there is improved efficiency, accountability, profitability and value creation in their institutions.

Madam Speaker, I would like to express my profuse gratitude to all the stakeholders who contributed to the production of the Committee’s report.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Anakoka: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to second the Motion on the report ably moved by the chairperson of the Committee, the hon. Member for Mansa Central.

Madam Speaker, the report that has been tabled is bulky, as it looked at the accounts of over twenty parastatals, and it has more than 200 pages. Therefore, in seconding the Motion to adopt the report, I will just stick to a few areas that have not been covered by the chairperson in moving the Motion.

Madam Speaker, in carrying out our mandate, as a Committee, we undertook tours to water utility companies in Luapula Province, Copperbelt Province and Lusaka Province, and that included the water supply regulator; the National Water Supply and Sanitation Council (NWASCO), which is a creature of the Water Supply and Sanitation Act.

Madam Speaker, there are two areas of concern that I would like to highlight in my debate. The first one, with regards to the water utility companies, is the high incidence of non-revenue water. Non-revenue water, for those who might not be familiar with the concept, simply means water that is treated and transported through the water supply system, but is not billed, which means a lot of expenses are incurred in abstracting this water and delivering it to consumers. However, somewhere between the abstraction point and the consumers, the water is lost. This is mostly due to dilapidated infrastructure and, therefore, increased leakages and, sometimes, system challenges. That is costing water utility companies a lot of money and is making it difficult, if not impossible, for them to service the communities adequately in terms of water supply.

Madam Speaker, the second issue that we identified, as a Committee, is that of the low water tariffs. This problem has been with us for a while because there is an issue with the legal framework regarding the power to approve the water tariffs. The current law provides that the National Water Supply and Sanitation Council (NWASCO), has the power to develop the guidelines and, therefore, to approve the tariffs on application from these commercial utilities. However, the practice is that once those guidelines are developed and the tariffs are considered from the water utility companies, they are submitted, or the proposal is submitted to the Cabinet. From our interaction with NWASCO, we learned that for many years, there has not been any approval from the Cabinet to allow water utility companies to apply cost-reflective tariffs. This means that the cost of abstracting and delivering water to consumers continues to be higher than the rate at which customers or consumers are billed. That is, indeed, not sustainable.

Madam Speaker, this report also includes our findings on other parastatals. In the parastatal sector, your Committee was privileged to undertake a tour to the Republic of Kenya, where we looked at how our colleagues there manage their parastatal sector. One of the issues we identified, as a Committee, was the perennial problem of financing parastatals. We discovered that Kenya, has deployed a model similar to ours, which is a development financing institution. In our case, it was the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ), which is in liquidation. In their case, their dedicated financing institution is still operational, and they are even putting more money into it so that the parastatal sector, which is a major engine of industrialising an economy, can be enhanced, be more productive and create more job opportunities for their people.

Madam Speaker, the Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government hastens the revival of the DBZ or replace it with another institution, of course, with some modifications here and there, to ensure that it operates more efficiently and effectively.

Madam Speaker, still on the parastatal sector, the Committee noted the issue of the legal framework within which our parastatals operate. Our parastatals have their origins in the Constitution, and in terms of their operations, we have the Companies Act, the Public Financial Management Act, the Zambia Public Procurement Act and other laws. Some of these laws, well-intended as they were in terms of how they apply to the parastatals, have become impediments in the operations of these parastatals. For example, we have entities that are supposed to procure through the Government procurement system, which is the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) System, but their competitors out there make these procurement decisions within twenty-four hours, and they procure. We are in the age of technology where an entity such as Zamtel Limited has to compete with other entities such as Airtel and Mobile Telephone Network (MTN), which have a very short turnaround when it comes to responding to market exigencies out there, whereas Zamtel Limited, being a parastatal, has to be in compliance with many laws and regulations.

Madam Speaker, your Committee recommends that the quicker the Government looks at the State-owned entities sector in order to come up with a new Act, which we understand, the better. Your Committee was actually informed that there is a State-Owned Entities Act that is in the pipeline. So, it will be necessary that when that Act is brought to Parliament, we really look at how we allow these entities to be competitive. Yes, the money that is invested in these entities is public money, but if we want them to be viable, they have to be allowed to compete with other entities out there within the same regulatory framework.

Madam Speaker, we also noted that some of these entities have a challenge of multiple reporting channels. So, we have an entity that falls under the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), but there is no Chinese wall between this entity and the ministry that is responsible for the sector where it operates. That means the ministry still operates as a parent ministry and, from time to time, makes decisions on behalf of that entity, which in some instances, even the board and management of that parastatal entity would not have been aware of, and that creates a lot of operational problems for some of these entities. So, we think streamlining the legal framework, as well as the management structure, by hiving off these entities so that they are completely under IDC or if they are supposed to be independent entities, will enhance their efficiency and productivity.

Madam Speaker, in winding up my seconding of this Motion, allow me to join the mover of the Motion to adopt this report of the Committee and to thank you for according us the opportunity to serve on this important Committee. I also wish to thank the hon. Members of your Committee for according me the opportunity to second the Motion.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr A. Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, may I also take this opportunity to thank the mover and the seconder of the Motion.

Madam Speaker, I will be brief and concise. I will start by looking at the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). Your Committee has pointed out that CEEC's capital base is insufficient, or let me call it bank capital. We know that CEEC has been operating since 2008. Therefore, we expect it to be self-sufficient by now. However, it is struggling to have a capital base, and when your Committee asked the Treasury for funds, the Treasury has actually been dragging its feet. We cannot blame the Secretary to the Treasury because truly, we expect this institution to make its own money, or to, at least, up its game by recoveries. One thing we need to know is that most of the clients that this institution has are people like me; politicians.

Madam Speaker, we need a Chief Executive Officer (CEO) who will be there permanently and to not be changed each time we have a new Government in place. His security of tenure should be guaranteed. This is the person who is supposed to know who the clients are, how we politicians operate, how we do not like paying back what we get, and how we always love to believe that whatever we take in terms of loans is a free gift.

Madam Speaker, allow me to also talk about the absence of a duration clause on the loan processing stage. The CEEC is blaming the Treasury for the late disbursement of funds. It does not matter what the reason is, the duration clause definitely needs to be there. This clause helps the client to understand when the money will be disbursed and when it will be paid back. The institution can actually take a leaf from other financial institutions, where they ensure that the loan drawdown time is within six months. This clause has to be there. There cannot be any exceptions or excuses. Clients have the right to know when the money will be disbursed for planning and budgeting purposes. They need to know when they will pay off or what the loan tenure is.

Madam Speaker, look at the non-performing loans. The CEEC complains of non-performing loans, and says that some of them have gone beyond six years, which is statute-barred. I am happy that the Attorney-General has actually clarified that any loan where the asset is land but related, the period is twelve years. We need to know that the commission has options for non-performing loans. It could either extend the expiry period, before it comes to an end, or it can actually refer the same loan to the loan recovery unit. Those are some of the options that the commission has before it.

Madam Speaker, another interesting point is the failure to reconcile the suspense account, which is supposed to be a temporarily account. The CEEC cannot complain about the lack of human capital. It is in Lusaka, and Lusaka is surrounded by universities and colleges that offer accounting courses so it should take advantage of the interns. Most companies do that. If it cannot hire permanent workers, it can use interns. Whenever interns are on break, they work as this is part of their programme. So, the complaint of lack of human capital does not hold any water.

Madam Speaker, on page 8 of the report, on the management of repossessed assets, it is funny and baffling to note that the CEEC has identified twenty-five assets, whose status is unknown. What sort of institution are they running? What kind of record keeping do they have for them to not know where the twenty-five assets are? Have they been repossessed or do they still have them? It looks like the CEEC is not even serious about public money.

Madam Speaker, the failure to recover loan amounts from the sale of assets is very funny as well. It only shows that the CEEC is not serious. How does it allow an asset to be pledged as collateral without checking its value? There is what is called the Loan-To-Value Ratio (LTV). It is a ratio that shows the value of an asset, whether it exceeds or meets the loan value. So, just using that ratio, the asset should be able to pay back whatever someone received. That is why we call these guarantees.

Madam Speaker, allow me to comment on the Levy Mwanawasa Medical University (LMMU).  The issue of missing payment vouchers is an interesting issue. When vouchers are missing, it is nothing else, but theft. It is disappointing and very unfair. I am looking at a teenager in Chimwemwe who steals a chicken to feed his siblings at home, because he heads the household, and goes to prison for so many years for doing that, yet four grown-up men, whom I do not know whether they shredded, stole or burnt the payment voucher, went scot-free just like that. What does the commission do? It just lays them off. They are just fired without facing any consequences, yet the young man in Chimwemwe, who stole a chicken and did not convert it into cash, but used it to feed his family, has been serving many years in prison. That is very unfair.

Madam Speaker, the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) recorded a low return on real estate. Of course, there is something fishy. How can NAPSA construct buildings or houses which nobody wants to buy? Everybody has noticed that there is something cooking at NAPSA. The value of the houses is double the cost of what someone can build. Most people do not even want to buy them.  People are offered to pay for them for ten years, but nobody wants to buy them because he or she would be wasting money. Instead of buying two properties, someone would buy one property. Maybe, there is an inside job where they connive with contractors to increase the cost of the project. In the end, they do not care because the money does not belong to them, but is Government money. This is how we waste money in our country. Sometimes, this is why we are not improving when it comes to development.

With those few words, I support your Committee’s report.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for according me an opportunity on behalf of the people of Chama North to briefly comment on the Report of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies.

Madam Speaker, the report clearly shows that almost all State-Owned Enterprises (SOEs) in this country are not doing fine, which is a sad development. I believe that if SOEs were well managed, they should have been contributing significantly to the gross domestic product (GDP) and creating jobs. Dr Kenneth Kaunda and his comrades created SOEs to promote industrial revolution in this country. Unfortunately, these companies are not doing very well.

Madam Speaker, every year, the Report of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies is presented before this august House and we talk about the same things. Even next year, it will be the same thing. Irregularities and the failure to manage SOEs are always quoted in the report. I think, the ball is in our court as leaders. So, as long as we do not take radical measures to ensure that SOEs operate purely as business entities, then, we are not going anywhere. I know that the poor performance of parastatals is largely due to poor management; the way Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) are appointed to run SOEs. For instance, we do not see job advertisements. Why do we not allow the best Zambians to apply for such jobs? Unfortunately, we just hear that so and so has been appointed as the managing director for a certain company and yet, there are Zambians who can take parastatal bodies to greater heights. I will state the truth. I think, all Governments that came in power after the United National Independence Party (UNIP) have been the same. There has been no good corporate governance in the way they have been appointing people to run parastatals.

Madam Speaker, let me quickly talk about Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL). The report has reviewed that that ZRL is performing poorly because of the deteriorating rail infrastructure, shortage of wagons and locomotives when many countries, even here in this continent, are modernising their railway systems and yet, we are still far from achieving that. Today, our roads are being damaged. Copper is always transported on our roads and because of the heavy loads, roads get damaged and, therefore, a lot of money is being spent to repair roads. So, roads do not last long because ZRL is not used to transport heavy loads such as copper like the case is in other countries where there is the Tanzania/Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA). Tanzania, Ethiopia and several other countries in Africa have done very well in modernising their railway infrastructure. Yes, today, we can say that the Government has no money, but we have natural resources, which we can exploit and invest in ZRL. Recently, I was listening to the former Managing Director of ZRL, Professor Clive Chirwa, who said that to modernise the rail sector in this country, we need more than US$1 billion. So, I wish to see high-speed trains in Zambia as it is in other countries. If we invest in the rail sector, most of the cargo will be transported by rail.

Madam Speaker, let me quickly comment on the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF). It is sad that the Government has not taken radical decisions to bring pension reforms before this august House. I am aware that LASF stopped recruiting new members in 2000 when the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) was created. A pension scheme where new members are not recruited cannot be sustained because new members are the ones who are supposed to finance the payment of the beneficiaries. Since 2000, LASF has not been recruiting new members. Last time, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development informed this august House that the Act will be amended so that LASF can start recruiting new members and compete with NAPSA. Most retirees do not receive their retirement benefits for years because of LASF’s status.

Madam Speaker, it is sad that up to this time, there is no Board of Directors at LASF. What is the problem? In the report, we have been told that the Cabinet approved the new board in March, 2025, but this is July. What is the problem with appointing the Board of Directors? These are the challenges that parastatal companies are facing. I want to appeal to the hon. Minister that when appointing the Board of Directors, he should appoint people who can add value to the companies. The problem is that the appointment of board members is a way of giving jobs to certain people. The appointees are not appointed just to receive allowances.

We must have people who have a business mind to supervise management. I feel that the hon. Minister must, as quickly as possible, ensure that the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) Board is appointed without further delay.

Madam Speaker, the report also says that there are only two companies, that is, ZESCO Limited and Lusaka Water Supply and Sanitation (LWSC), which are up to date with remittances to LASF. The majority of local authorities are not able to remit monthly contributions.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I support the adoption of this report.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani indicated to speak.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Namwala is part of the Committee that produced the report. So, the hon. Member for Zambezi East may take the Floor.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House, which is on the report of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies, chaired by Hon. Dr. Chilufya.

Madam Speaker, I am elated to have this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Motion because I am passionately connected to that Committee; it is my immediate past Committee. Therefore, I have institutional memory, being the past chairperson of that Committee.

Madam Speaker, I will go straight to the salient issues raised by the chairperson of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies. I think that each report that has been presented on the Floor of the House has brought out these issues. It appears that these issues have now become perennial, and we consider it business as usual. I am also pleased that many interventions have been made by the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government to correct the situation. However, the results from the milestones that have been achieved will probably only show a few years from now.

Madam Speaker, in his address to the House and to the nation at large, the chairperson of the Committee lamented the lack of corporate governance. Indeed, lack of corporate governance is one of the issues causing underperformance in parastatal bodies. He gave an example of Levy Mwanawasa Medical University (LMMU) which, at the time of the audit, was operating without a council. This was true for most of the public universities as well. However, I am glad to see that only one has been singled out this time, because at the time I presented a similar report last year, a number of public universities were singled out and many of them lamented that they had no councils. That compelled the Committee to call the stakeholders who are supposed to scan the people who are supposed to be appointed to the boards expeditiously. It appears that some milestones have been recorded because I see that the Committee has complained about only one university regarding the issue of councils. However, parastatal bodies still have the same challenge of lack of boards. Some of them, including water utility companies, still have no boards in place. I think that the hon. Ministers concerned are aware of the issue as it was flagged last year. I can see that most of them actually complied with the directive to establish the boards. Where there are challenges, it is just one-off situations concerning corporate governance.

Madam Speaker, corporate governance is very important in any institution. In parastatals, it cannot be overemphasised, because without it, we will have institutions run by management.  When management is not checked on whatever decisions it makes, the situation becomes free for all, and that is the reason we have financial flaws reported by the Auditor-General. It is because corporate governance is not emphasised. To be specific, of course, I mentioned the LMMU, which used to have financial issues when I was still in that Committee.

Madam Speaker, the chairperson of the Committee also lamented the chronic problem of not paying terminal benefits. This problem mainly stems from institutions that are underperforming. It is not their wish to not pay terminal benefits; the fact is that they have no funds to pay the terminal benefits. So, we need to get to the root of the problem. I can give an example of the University of Zambia (UNZA). Quite a lot of money is on its books as unpaid terminal benefits. Again, that boils down to what conditions of service we have allowed these institutions to have. Without proper corporate governance, institutions come up with whatever they wish in terms of conditions of service without the approval of conditions of service. Before we know it, they are in people's contracts, but then the institution fails to meet the conditions of service and ends up having a backlog of unpaid allowances and unpaid terminal benefits. People are owed as much as K20 million. Some of us cannot even earn that kind of money even if we did three terms in this Parliament. So, we need to emphasise the issue of corporate governance.  I like that a commission was formed and it will look at some of these things and harmonise them. What do we call that commission? The Public Service Commission? The Emoluments Commission? The Emoluments Commission has now come in because some of these issues stemming from these imbalances. Some institutions had conditions of service that went overboard, and that is the reason funds are still owed to employees who have separated from some institutions to date. It is because of a lack of corporate governance.

Madam Speaker, I also wish to talk about revenue collection. Indeed, the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) has been mentioned here. We all know why the backlog still exists there. It was not people’s wish to not collect funds from LASF; salaries were never paid. Contributions cannot be deducted when salaries are not paid, or whatever money local authorities had was too little to pay for both statutory obligations and net pay. So, they prioritised paying the net pay. Now that councils are being financed, I believe that LASF is getting healthier. We can actually draw a line and see the difference between the past and the current parastatals. I can see light at the end of the tunnel in the way that the UPND Government is managing things.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I support the Motion on the Report of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies for adoption by the House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to add my voice to the debate on the report on parastatal bodies and other statutory institutions, on behalf of the people of Kaumbwe.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, the Auditor-General’s report on parastatal and statutory institutions shows that there are several challenges, ranging from a lack of financing and mismanagement of public resources to a lack of internal controls.

The Auditor-General conducts an audit and sends a draft audit report to parastatal bodies. In this case, there are more than twenty-two parastatal bodies. The controlling officers and chief executive officers (CEOs) of parastatal bodies confirm the audit query and have an opportunity to respond and interact with the Committee, which has ably moved this Motion. A common trend, as in many audits, is that controlling officers and CEOs do not take the audit processes seriously. It is business as usual. When an audit query is posed, they do not even produce documentary evidence to justify their actions. The situation ends in them saying that it was an oversight and that they will look into measures to control such incidences going forward to achieve zero audit queries.

Madam Speaker, I will give a few examples because the report is bulky and it covers many parastatal institutions. The Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) is mandated to provide cheap financing to our citizens for the promotion of small and medium enterprises (SMEs). During the financial year cited in the report, the budget for the CEEC was K4,281,774,620. Against this budget, it only received 8.5 per cent, which translates to K362,199,777. That money was supposed to fund 110,765 loan applications. How can the CEEC carry out its mandate with such meagre funding? Furthermore, the commission has operational challenges like a lack of transport, limitations in human resources and inadequate office space. The operational fund that the CEEC requires is K477,381,917 per year. It only received K35 million, which is about 7 per cent of its budget. Funding challenges hinder service delivery.

Madam Speaker, the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) budget and funding report showed a positive variance of K8,470,974. Apart from that amount of money, the agency also received US$328,661,145 and €1,408,871 funding from co-operating partners for the Improved Rural Connectivity Road Project (IRCP). The funding from external partners was supposed to pay for works on the Chinsali/Nakonde Road and the Luangwa to Nyimba Road. On page 75 of the report, the Committee recommended that the matter be closed, subject to audit verification. I was amazed to read that the agency received US$328 million and €1,408,871 during the 2023 fiscal year towards three projects, among them the Chinsali/Nakonde Road and Luangwa/Nyimba Road. However, no rehabilitation works have been executed on the Luangwa/Nyimba Road for which the agency received those funds. Only emergency repairs of the bridge, which is 257 km from Lusaka, have been done. The Committee recommended, again, that the matter undergoes audit verification.

Madam Speaker, the NRFA is mandated to mobilise resources for road maintenance and rehabilitation works. With the support that the agency has through co-operating partners, such as the Danish International Development Agency (DANIDA) and the World Bank, we lose opportunities. The main source of funds for the agency is toll collections. An example of tollgates would be the one on the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway, which is a project that is being implemented under a public-private partnership (PPP). The agency was collecting tolls on the road, but towards the end of last year, before the contractor finished construction of the road, the contractor started collecting the tolls. The agency gave those tollgates to the concessionaire, meaning that the resource basket to maintain our roads countrywide has reduced. Under a PPP project, a concessionaire is expected to have financial muscle. There must be financial closure before implementing a project. Why then is a concessionaire who had financial closure before undertaking works on the road, which is in progress, given to run the tollgates? That is the problem that the NRFA should have looked into to continue mobilising resources for our roads.

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Mwanza: We wish the same action that has happened –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Your time is up, hon. Member.

Dr Mwanza: With those few words, Madam Speaker, I support the adoption of the report and take the Committee’s recommendations as my own.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, I wish to express my profound gratitude for this opportunity to respond to the insightful report presented by the Committee on Parastatal Bodies regarding the Auditor-General’s Report on the Accounts of Parastatal Bodies and Other Statutory Institutions for the Financial Year Ended 31^st December, 2023.

Madam Speaker, allow me to extend my sincere appreciation to the Committee for the diligent work and constructive oversight. The observations and recommendations contained in the report are not only timely, but also critical to our collective efforts in strengthening transparency, accountability and performance within public institutions, particularly in the water and sanitation sector. In addition, I wish to appreciate the mover of the Motion, Hon. Dr Chitalu Chilufya, the seconder, Hon. Anakoka, as well as your hon. Members, among them Hon. Allen Banda, Hon. Mtayachalo, Hon. Kambita and Hon. Dr Aaron Mwanza, for ably debating the Motion.

Madam Speaker, sound financial management practices are indispensable for the successful implementation and sustainability of water supply and sanitation projects. Such practices ensure that resources are optimally allocated and that the public derives full value from every Kwacha invested.

In this regard, I wish to highlight the measures that we, as a ministry, are taking in response to the issues raised in the Auditor-General’s Report and to reaffirm our resolve to work collaboratively with all stakeholders to address any weaknesses identified, enhance internal controls and ensure full compliance with relevant financial and operational regulations.

Madam Speaker, regarding the Committee’s concern on the high levels of non-revenue water among commercial utilities, my ministry developed a national non-revenue water management strategy aimed at achieving the following:

1. establishing dedicated non-revenue water units within each commercial utility;
2. accelerating universal metering under ongoing and upcoming infrastructure projects;
3. providing targeted capacity building to strengthen utility-level technical competences in non-revenue water management;
4. piloting smart water loss detection technologies; and
5. enhancing performance monitoring and enforcement of non-revenue water targets through the National Water Supply and Sanitation Council (NWASCO).

Madam Speaker, furthermore, the ministry has put in place a national technical taskforce to spearhead non-revenue water management in the sector. We reaffirm our commitment to achieving the NWASCO benchmark of 25 per cent or lower by 2030.

Madam Speaker, on tariff adjustments, the ministry is working with the Ministry of Justice and NWASCO to review the Water Supply and Sanitation Act No. 28 of 1997. The revised Act will explicitly designate NWASCO as the competent authority to approve cost recovery tariffs while safeguarding affordability for vulnerable populations.

Madam Speaker, on vandalism and theft of water and sanitation installations, the ministry has intensified public awareness campaigns by rolling out smart metering systems in high-risk areas. The ministry is also working closely with the Zambia Police Service and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to strengthen legal enforcement and community surveillance networks fostering public ownership and protection of water assets.

Madam Speaker, regarding the metering ratio, the ministry has made it a policy requirement for all new infrastructure projects, such as the Integrated Small Towns Water Supply and Sanitation Project currently being implemented, to incorporate metering at the design and implementation stages. NWASCO has been directed to enforce this as a mandatory requirement for project approvals and performance evaluations. Further, we are leveraging support from co-operating partners to procure additional meters and install pre-paid systems to meet the 100 per cent metering benchmark by the year 2027.

Madam Speaker, concerning the infrastructure maintenance of Mulonga Water and Sanitation Company (MWSC), the ministry, through the Zambia water supply and sanitation project, has earmarked funds for infrastructure rehabilitation at the utility offices. A specific maintenance and upgrading plan has been developed.

Madam Speaker, on the absence of boards of directors at MWSC and the Kafubu Water Supply and Sanitation Company (KWSC), the ministry has concluded the appointment of Boards of Directors and has since submitted a Cabinet Memorandum for consideration by the Cabinet. The boards will be unveiled as soon as the Cabinet takes note of the recommendation.

Madam Speaker, regarding the poor state of properties at KWSC, the ministry has completed the technical assessment of thirty-nine properties at Kafubu Dam and developed a phased maintenance and rehabilitation plan. Implementation is expected to commence in the 2026 fiscal year, subject to resource availability.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to reaffirm the ministry's commitment to strengthening governance, operational efficiency and financial sustainability across all water and sanitation institutions. We take the Committee’s observations seriously and are actively implementing measures to address the identified challenges. The ministry remains open to continued engagement with the Committee and the other oversight bodies as we work collectively to deliver equitable, safe, and sustainable water and sanitation services for all Zambians.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, I want to start off by commending the Committee for the work that it has done, highlighting all the difficulties as indicated.

Madam Speaker, the Government has developed a new performance management framework, which is expected to provide for performance against targets in State-owned enterprises. Let me state that this Government is also committed to restoring efficiency and effectiveness in the manner in which all Government contracts are managed. In order to achieve this, the Government has embarked on the implementation of the following:

1. continue orienting boards of directors for parastatals and statutory institutions in the public finance legislations to enable them to participate effectively in the drawing up and the placement of effective internal controls in procurement processes; and
2. take immediate, effective and appropriate disciplinary steps against airing officeholders in ministries, provinces and other agencies.

Madam Speaker, I would like to indicate to the House that the Treasury, the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, the Ministry of Education, the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) Limited and other stakeholders will closely review the Committee’s observations and the recommendations, and a comprehensive report on the progress of the pertinent issues raised by the Committee will be availed to the House.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank all the debaters who have contributed to this Motion, and one salient contribution that the debaters have made is pointing towards the epidemic of corporate management failure. The decent response from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment are very encouraging and gives hope that we will address matters to do with corporate governance, particularly the lack of boards with resultant poor oversight and poor financing, and also the perennial wanton disregard for accounting processes.

Madam Speaker, the Committee is confident that with effective engagement between all stakeholders, the Executive and the Committee, there shall be improved corporate governance of these institutions, and there shall be value creation, improved profitability, and enhanced efficiencies in the parastatal bodies so that we could have enhanced revenue to contribute to national development.

Madam Speaker, I thank everyone for supporting this Motion, and I beg that all hon. Members of Parliament support this report.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

CONSIDERATION OF THE REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REFORMS AND MODERNISATION COMMITTEE IN-CAMERA

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, before we move to the next Motion, I wish to state that as earlier announced by Hon. Madam Speaker, Article 89(2) of the Constitution of Zambia requires the National Assembly not to exclude the public or the media from its Sittings, unless there are justifiable reasons to do so. As you are already aware, the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee is classified under the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, as a Housekeeping Committee, as it deals with in-house matters hinging on the powers, privileges, procedures and practices, organisation and facilities of the Assembly.

For that reason, the debate on the report of the Committee, which the House is about to consider, will be done in-camera. In view of the foregoing, I direct all members of the public and the media to leave the House. I further direct that broadcasting of the proceedings on Parliament Radio and Parliament TV, as well as social media, be suspended during the debate of the report.

I thank you.

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REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REFORMS AND MODERNISATION COMMITTEE

Mr Elias Musonda (Chimbamilonga): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do now adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee for the Fourth Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 22^nd July, 2025.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Elias Musonda: Madam Speaker, I trust that hon. Members have read the important housekeeping report and I will only highlight a few salient issues, among the topics considered by the Committee. The Committee’s report is not merely a record of deliberations. It is a bold statement of intent, a clear roadmap for reform and a re-affirmation of our collective commitment to building a truly people-centred Parliament.

Madam Speaker, your Committee’s focus on enhancing public participation in the work of Parliament could not be more timely or relevant. At a time when citizens across Zambia are increasingly demanding transparency, inclusivity and accountability, the Committee’s report responds with concrete strategies that place the people at the heart of Parliamentary processes. Apart from strengthening the use and resourcing of constituency offices to improve digital platforms such as my e-Parliament and increasing the use of radio, television and virtual platforms, the report outlines some strategies aimed at narrowing the gap between the electorate and their elected representatives. One most important thing to consider as we look at public participation in the work of Parliament is to address geographical and socio-economic barriers to participation.

Madam Speaker, the Committee has, therefore, recommended that Parliament holds public hearings in local languages and also outside Lusaka. This is in recognition of the fact that democracy must be accessible to all, regardless of location, language or status.

Madam Speaker, the benchmarking visits to the Parliament of Morocco further enriched your Committee’s deliberations by offering practical lessons on how we too can embed public participation into our institutional deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA). By constitutional entrenchment of civic engagement and strategic partnerships with civil society, the Moroccan experience offers valuable examples and lessons as we continue modernising our own systems of public participation.

Madam Speaker, another issue your Committee considered was the mid-term evaluation of the 2022-2026 National Assembly of Zambia Strategic Plan. The report provides a candid, evidence-based review of progress made, gaps identified and the way forward in the implementation of the institution’s strategic plan. It reminds us that reform is not an event, but a continuous process; one that demands resources, innovation and unity of purpose.

Madam Speaker, arising from the foregoing, your Committee emphasises the use of technology, civic education and youth engagement to strengthen democratic governance. We must empower citizens to not only observe Parliament, but to influence it.

Madam Speaker, let me also point out the report’s proactive stance on institutional capacity, which calls for better co-ordination, improved funding and more strategic investment in human capital. By adopting the report, we are not merely endorsing the work of your Committee, but signalling our unwavering commitment to a Parliament that is transparent, inclusive and responsive to the needs of the Zambian people. Let us rise to the occasion and embrace the recommendations in the report as tools for progress. Let us work together across party lines, across sectors and across the country to transform our vision into reality.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to state that the Committee’s report provides us with a practical blueprint for creating a Parliament that is truly responsive, transparent and inclusive. It is a call to action to each one of us to ensure that Parliament is not only a law-making body, but a living institution that listens, learns and lives with the people. Let us not treat the report as a ceremonial document. Let us treat it as a living mandate.

Madam Speaker, I, therefore, strongly urge this House to adopt the report and to give its recommendations the priority and support they deserve. Let us build a Parliament that the people of Zambia can not only be proud of, but truly call their own.

Madam Speaker, lastly, I would like to express my gratitude to the hon. Members of your Committee for their commitment to duty and the staff from the Office of the Clerk for their support.

 Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr E. Tembo: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I rise to second the Motion ably moved by the Member of Parliament for Chimba Milonga, Hon. Elias Musonda, on the adoption of the report before the House. I also wish to commend the Committee, which was chaired by the Second Deputy Speaker, who was unable to present the report for reasons that are known, for the diligent manner it carried out its mandate.

Madam Speaker, the issue which the Committee looked at during the period under review was the relevance and the quest to enhance the effectiveness of this august House, as well as the public’s participation in parliamentary work. The report affords us an opportunity to closely examine reforms aimed at enhancing how we deliver on our mandate. The Committee focused on enhancing public participation in the work of Parliament as that is of utmost importance. The House was created because of the mandate of the people. If the people merely vote for us but do not continue participating in the work of this House or interacting with hon. Members of Parliament as individuals in their constituencies, then, we will not achieve the goal that this House was created. Therefore, the participation of members of the public in parliamentary work is important. That was also the stance that we found when we undertook a comparative study in Morocco, where reforms showed that public engagement is not an option but a necessity for democratic governance.

Madam Speaker, the report also highlights one fundamental truth, like I said, that Parliament belongs to the people. If we look at the history of the Parliament of the United Kingdom (UK) from 1400 to date, we will realise that the process started with the people and ended up with the House. In this case, we cannot sever the people from the activities of this House. Therefore, it is legitimate to draw powers of this House not only from elections but also from the continuous engagement of citizens in its processes.

Madam Speaker, the report also lays bare the challenges we face. It states geographical barriers, limited awareness, inadequate infrastructure and funding as well as insufficient digital literacy, and provides concrete and actionable recommendations to address them. The findings on the role of constituency offices in bridging the gap between Parliament and the people are particularly noteworthy. These offices are no longer mere points of contact but centres for civic dialogue. A lot of money has been spent in some cases on constituency offices, but their use has not matched the money that was spent or the objectives. Therefore, it is important that in our reforms, we take the use of the offices closer to the people and increase staff numbers to realise the objective. The issue is that people do not know about this. Once they vote, they do not realise that there is a continuous interaction with their lawmakers, as well as Parliament as a House through constituency offices. Therefore, we need resources to attract members of the public or the electorate to participate, particularly through constituency offices.

Madam Speaker, like I said, as the Committee interacted with various stakeholders, it became clear that there has been inadequate funding and understaffing. The constituency offices are ill-equipped to bridge the gap between the people, the hon. Member of Parliament and this House.

Madam Speaker, the report also recognises the potential of digital platforms. Indeed, the live streaming of deliberations of the House has proved to be very informative to members of the public, but it needs to be increased. The Committee is also indebted to the use of Facebook as areas where television and radio may not reach are now reachable. However, this must be increased.

Madam Speaker, one other issue I want to talk about, before I sit down, is inclusive language access, particularly for rural communities. Perhaps, one of the issues we may consider is interpretation of deliberations in various local languages. Let me also indicate that sensitisation programmes have been undermined because of the poor funding that I mentioned, and this has led to our offices being places where our staff just sit idle; they need to be kept busy.

Madam Speaker, future reforms should also look at the work of hon. Members of Parliament. Perhaps, we copied and pasted so much from the British, the people who left us this system. We need to re-look at the roles of hon. Members of Parliament. For instance, let us look at our roles in funerals, which I know every Member of Parliament participates. If an hon. Member does not participate in funerals, he knows that he will definitely exit the House next year because funerals are key. Therefore, financing reforms are fundamental.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, the report reminds us that the legitimacy of Parliament is anchored in the trust and participation of the people. We must move from talking to implementation and from consultation to action. Let us adopt this report and commit ourselves to building a Parliament that truly reflects the hopes, voices, and aspirations of every Zambian. I believe that it is in the spirit of the Constitution for the people’s voices to be heard.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to make a few comments on this interesting report.

Madam Speaker, we are back again to this report, just as we are getting near to winding up on the term of office for hon. Members. Yet, the same issues we have lamented over and again are still outstanding. I will focus on a few issues under the action-taken report, which are matters that needed to be addressed, such as providing hon. Members of Parliament with drivers, aide-de-camps, and recognisable vehicles. We have visited many jurisdictions with you as a delegation leader, and we have seen how our hon. Colleagues are taken care of by their Parliaments. We should not be talking about these things now; we should be talking about implementing the recommendations.

Madam Speaker, the other issue I want to talk about is on page 9, where the report talks about establishing and actualising the Parliamentary Service Commission. This must be implemented soon. The law is in place; we just need a commencement order. If we need to amend how the commencement order for that law should be done, all of us gathered here should do that. I do not know why we are failing. That is the only way the doctrine of Separation of Powers will be properly observed. In countries where we have been, where the Parliamentary Service Commission is operational, the welfare of hon. Members of Parliament and staff is properly undertaken. The legislative arms of the Government are unique in nature across the Commonwealth. We cannot say that members of staff at Parliament should be equated with staff from ministries, no.  Parliament is a unique arm of the Government, and that is why, through the Parliamentary Service Commission, we can deal with the pertinent issues we have been grappling with.

Madam Speaker, re-developing the Member’s Motel through a Public-Private Partnership (PPP) is overdue.

I was shocked to hear the hon. Minister of Justice talk about delimitation in this House without caring about where the new hon. Members would live. Currently, your hon. Members are dotted across the country in lodges that are not even properly protected because the parliamentary facility meant for them cannot accommodate the current numbers. So, what will happen when there are ninety or 100 more hon. Members?

Ms Kasune: On a point of Order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, when debating this Motion, we speak the truth. There is no raising points of order. That is why we do not have cameras.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

I think, the hon. Minister has a right to raise a point of order.

Mr Kampyongo: This is an in-house matter, Madam Speaker. She can requite. She can respond.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Please, do not draw other hon. Members into your debate. I think that is why she wanted to come in. Just be focused, because there is no mention of the hon. Minister of Justice in the report. Just concentrate on what is in the report without necessarily drawing other hon. Members into your debate.

You may continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, all I am saying is that we should sequence the things that we need to do for this institution. As we are asking for more hon. Members, we should remember that some hon. Members still rent private buildings for constituency offices. Some of us have managed to build constituency offices, but there are hon. Members whose offices are in rented buildings, yet the Government is thinking of getting more hon. Members before some of those things are sorted out. We should sequence what we need to do for this institution.

Madam Speaker, there is also another matter of interest. I am happy that you are like us, coming from a rural constituency.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Again, do not draw me into your debate.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, on insufficient resources allocated to hon. Members, your Committee observed that hon. Members have challenges visiting their constituencies regularly during the Sittings of the House due to inadequate resources. You have been to Kenya and Uganda. On Fridays like this one, hon. Members are provided money to visit their constituencies by the institution they work for. Hon. Members in this House, I do not know, especially the first-termers, will see that people do not appreciate. They will have to borrow kaloba or something to ensure that they visit their constituencies.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is kaloba, hon. Member?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, kaloba is money that is borrowed with crazy or punitive interest.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, these are straightforward matters. Even when kilometre allowance is calculated for Sinazongwe or Shiwang’andu, it is only enough to reach the Boma, yet an hon. Member still has to cover, maybe, half the same distance if he or she is visiting four wards, for example. The kilometre allowance that is calculated only takes an hon. Member to point A. No one cares how hon. Members go about visiting their constituencies. Hon. Members will see what will happen to the motor vehicles that they buy on loan.

Gentlemen, by the time you complete this term next year, the motor vehicles will be half gone.

Mr Mabeta: It will be a wreck!

Mr Kampyongo: Those are issues, Madam Speaker, we should address before we think of increasing our numbers. If we cannot address such matters, what will happen if we are more in this House, especially with limited space in the Chamber? So, let us be realistic. As hon. Members of Parliament who are current and have been in this House long enough, we know the turnover. You can ask my hon. Colleague here, cibulebule (pointed at Mr Sing’ombe).

Mr Sing’ombe: Aziweya, iwe!

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, hon. Member, just concentrate on your debate.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, we need to focus on ensuring that the Parliamentary Service Commission is put in place, as the first priority, because all the benchmarking tours we have undertaken speak to the same issues. Then, we can remove ourselves from this –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 29^th July, 2025.

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