Friday, 27^thJune, 2025

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM ROSEHILL SCHOOL

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Rosehill School in Kabwe District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

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URGENT MATTER WITHOUT NOTICE

MR SIMUMBA, HON. MEMBER FOR NAKONDE, ON MR CHIKOTE, HON. MINISTER OF ENERGY, ON WHY THE MINISTRY IS TAKING ZAMBIANS FOR GRANTED BY NOT INCREASING POWER SUPPLY

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): On an Urgent Matter without Notice, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter without Notice is raised.

Mr Simumba: Madam Speaker, the matter I wish to raise is directed to the hon. Minister of Energy. Since you guided that we do not have a ‘Ministry of Load-Shedding’, I will abide by that.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Energy is one of the institutions that have taken Zambians for granted. You will recall that the hon. Minister informed the House that by June, 2025, power supply would be increased. Today, we are having nineteen hours of load-shedding, but the hon. Minister is seated quietly and comfortably because he thinks that he owns Zambia. In Zimbabwe, power supply has been increased because the water levels have risen in Lake Kariba. Here, in Zambia, we are waiting for the same water in Lake Kariba that Zimbabwe has used to increase power supply to rise further.

Madam Speaker, I want to know why the ministry is taking Zambians for granted. Zambians also need to know why that is the case. You will recall that the hon. Minister is the same person who even introduced emergency electricity tariffs, but Zambians are still waiting for increased power supply.

Madam Speaker, this is a serious matter that needs your guidance.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nakonde, I am sure you have been in the House for four years now and should be very familiar with our Standing Orders. Clearly, the matter that you have raised does not qualify as an Urgent Matter without Notice. So, please, familiarise yourself with the Standing Orders. I think, we should be doing better by now; we should have learned. Four years is not a walk in the park. It has been four years, so I expect hon. Members to familiarise themselves with the Standing Orders.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Chala (Chipili): Madam Speaker, in the current crop marketing season, the floor price of maize has been increased from K330 to K340 per 50 kg bag. In the past few months, the price of mealie meal was between K300 and K400. Of late, we have heard that the price of mealie meal has gone down. I want to find out the abracadabra that was used to –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chipili!

What does abracadabra mean?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chala: Madam Speaker, that is a word used by magicians before performing an act. They use the word abracadabra to confuse people. When magicians say that, people believe that what they are seeing is real, when it is not.

Madam Speaker, if the floor price of maize has gone up, why is a bag of breakfast mealie meal selling at a lower cost? As a mother and reverend in this country, I want Her Honour the Vice-President to explain that to the Zambian people so that they believe that what they are seeing is real and it is not something temporary.

Hon. Government Members: It is real.

Madam Speaker: We are now hearing Chipilinomics from the hon. Member.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member, who has also created some economic theory.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the fact that the hon. Member has noted that the price of mealie meal has increased, as the floor price of maize has also increased. I think that is the long and short end in understanding the situation, as described by the hon. Member for Chipili. Now, he is wondering if it is magic that the pricing is like that. This Government does not believe in magic or witchcraft. This Government believes in reality. There are many factors at play when it comes to pricing. I think, we talked about pricing last week. I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, who was asked a question, and he tried to explain what is happening in the economy in terms of commodity pricing. I may not give full answers because I needed to ask the millers. In my thinking, I am saying “Wow, something is happening”, but it is not magic. One tries to understand every situation. My understanding is the availability of maize. Maize is available on the market.

Madam Speaker, let us admit that some businessmen may be taking advantage of the availability of maize and may be buying at a lower cost, therefore, translating to this. We should also remember that in the production of mealie meal, there are other costs, including fuel. So, what happens on the fuel market impacts their product price. Those are some of the things that come to mind when I am asked. It is something that I may not fully give details on. However, this is what I understand; it has to do with the availability of a lot of maize. Remember, production has increased. Sometimes, even what we record may not take care of everyone who has produced maize. Then, there is an aspect of the price of fuel on the market. Remember that there is also competition in sales. So, these factors drive the price of any commodity. One reduces the price because one has to sell on the market.

Madam Speaker, one thing that I may think of, hopefully it is a fact, is that a bag of maize does not produce one bag of mealie meal. If it is milled into roller meal, one gets 48 kg instead of 25 kg. When one puts all these factors together, there is no magic. What is happening is reality. Maybe, the millers are not getting as much profit because they have to compete for the market, but they are making a profit even with what may be official.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simbao (Luanshya): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, about a year ago, on behalf of the people of Luanshya, I asked Her Honour the Vice-President whether the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government was the Government they had been waiting for, or whether they were to wait for another one. In her response, she said that Luanshya would not be left out because we would see something happening and, for sure, things are happening in Luanshya.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, when is Her Honour the Vice-President visiting Luanshya to see for herself what is happening?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ema questions aya!

Madam Speaker: Your Honour the Vice-President, you may proceed.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I was almost rising to my feet before you called on me to speak. Pantu ema questions aya.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker –

Hon. Member: Meaning?

The Vice-President: Oh! These are the right questions for the Vice-President.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the question is: Is this the Government the people of Luanshya have been waiting for, or should they wait for another? I am sure this question is taken from one very important book, the Bible. That was the question the disciples of John the Baptist asked Jesus, and you know that the answer is already given. In that story, Jesus told them to wait and see. After they had witnessed, he told them to go and tell the others what they had seen. A very good story.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Luanshya.

Madam Speaker, indeed, is this the Government they have been waiting for, or should they wait for another? The hon. Member has seen the works of this Government. The people of Luanshya have seen Shaft …

Mr J. Chibuye: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: 28. They have seen the roads. They have seen the infrastructure in many other fields. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is working, free education, Social Cash Transfer (SCT), Cash-for- Work.

Hon. UPND Members: Work!

The Vice-President: Work.

Oh! Can you finish the line?

Laughter

The Vice-President: No.

Madam Speaker, So then, the hon. Member should go and tell the people that this Government, through the Vice-President, will soon be there to celebrate with them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, you may proceed.

Hon. UPND Members: Kasongo!

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Balintemwa aba!

Madam Speaker, the Constitution is a people’s document. Therefore, to amend it, one needs to get permission from the people. I want to commend the President for being magnanimous in instructing the Government to defer the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 7 of 2025. We have been deceived before through the cyber laws …

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: …when the two pieces of legislation were deferred only to be brought back through the back door.

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the people of this country are now wondering. Through this deferment, are we –

Mr Mwene and Mr Amutike interjected.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, there are no points of order.

Hon. Member for Nkana, mind the context of the words you are using. I do not think you can say “deceiving”.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Nkana, please, the word “deceiving” is unparliamentary in the context you are using it. Choose words that are parliamentary. You may continue.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I take your guidance. I want to withdraw the word “deceive”.

Madam Speaker, we were misled before when the Government deferred the cyber laws, only to bring them back. I do not want to use the other words. The people of this country, despite commending the President for instructing the deferment of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 7 of 2025 (Bill No.7), are wondering whether the Government will do to Bill No.7 what it did before.

Madam Speaker, now that the Government has realised that the people need to be engaged in amending the Constitution from the word ‘go’, I, therefore, ask this question: Would it not be prudent at this point to completely withdraw the Bill, …

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: … because deferment does not mean withdrawing? I am asking on behalf of the people: Does the Government not think that it is prudent to withdraw the Bill so that the Government can then come back to us and we start this process together?

The Vice-President: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Nkana. Before he started speaking, I heard him say “Balintemwa aba” meaning ‘These people love me.’ I like that statement. That is the way it should be. Genuine. This side loves Kaso –

Oh sorry!

Laughter

The Vice-President: I am sincerely sorry, Madam Speaker, …

Madam Speaker: Your Honour the Vice-President –

The Vice-President: … honestly, I did not mean it.

Madam Speaker: Your Honour the Vice-President, just for clarity’s sake, who is Kasongo in the House?

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, my sincere apologies to you and the hon. Member. I must admit that I also joined those who were saying, “Kasongo”. I am so sorry, hon. Member. We love the hon. Member for Nkana. However, we may not like certain things like the question he asked.

Mr B. Mpundu: Ah!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it has a lot of –

Laughter

The Vice-President: We are also trying to understand where it is coming from. I thank you, Madam Speaker, for guiding the hon. Member for stating that people were misled, when the Government deferred the Cyber Security Bill and the Cyber Crimes Bill, because there were two Bills that we passed into law.

Madam Speaker, hon. Colleagues will remember that after the deferment of those the Cyber Crimes Bill, there was a lot to consider. The purpose was for further consultation. Based on the question the hon. Member has asked, I believe he reads a lot. If not, he has some people who read for him.

Mr B. Mpundu: Question!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we have the right to engage people to read for us.

Mr B. Mpundu: Question!

The Vice-President: That is true. We have the right to engage people to read and interpret things to us as Members of Parliament. I do not know which method the hon. Member uses, but –

Mr Mweetwa: The latter one.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the point is that the hon. Member has to go back and read the original Cyber Crimes Bill that was presented before and the one that we recently enacted. He will see –

Mr B. Mpundu: They were 100 per cent the same.

The Vice-President: No, they were not 100 per cent the same. There were amendments on that Bill. So, when the Bill was brought, I believed it was in an acceptable form. The hon. Member has the right to defend the position of the Zambians. That is the purpose of voting on every Bill and that opportunity was given to the hon. Member. So, he is equally responsible. He passed the Bill. This House passed the Bill. We passed the Bill.

Madam Speaker, I was trying to remember what we have done on this Bill. If we remember, we were looking at a report not too long ago, of the Committee on National Guidance and Gender Matters. The hon. Member will remember that Committee report if he was in the House. The report talked about the immorality and the crime that is committed on the cyberspace. The chairperson of the Committee on National Guidance and Gender Matters was Hon. Kafwaya.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, Hon. Kafwaya can listen while seated. I am commending his report. His report was brought to the House. I took note of the report and amplified that the cyber crimes law would help bring sanity in the cyberspace.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: For example, it would also help in the withdrawal of – What do you call the removal of the inappropriate content that people upload on the cyberspace? In Zambia, we are now able to pull down that content from the cyberspace. I think ‘pull down’ is right phrase to use. What powers do those who pull down inappropriate content use? It is the same cyber crimes law. So, in as much as the hon. Member may have certain points that he is not happy with, the cyber crimes law is helping to bring sanity to him, his children, my grandchildren and I. I, therefore, thank him for commending the President for deferring the Bill.

Madam Speaker, I therefore, thank the hon. Member for commending the President for deferring the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 7 of 2025. The hon. Member’s question is whether we should withdraw the Bill completely. No, we are deferring it for more consultations. It is as clear as that. This is how magnanimous our President is. We are a listening Government and we defer Bills. It will depend on what we will find on the ground. It may not be presented in a way that will please him but, maybe, in a manner that will be more inclusive through a more consultative process. If that happens, Zambians will be happy, but for now, we have deferred it. I am happy that he can now understand and that he will explain to the public that we have deferred and not withdrawn the Bill. This is because we want inclusivity as people are claiming. We also want more consultations and, indeed, more input from the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, before I ask a question, allow me to congratulate the New Dawn Government for winning all the seats in the just ended by-elections.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, this shows that people are happy with the New Dawn Government.

Madam Speaker, I want to commend the New Dawn Government for the much emphasis it has put in making sure that justice is not denied to our people. During the swearing-in-ceremony of our Chief Justice, the President emphasised the need to make sure that cases were disposed of in good time.

Madam Speaker, I want to bring to Her Honour the Vice-President’s attention that in Kabwe, we lost a Judge in 2023. It is now two years. This means that we only have one Judge in the whole province, attending to civil and criminal cases. It has been hard for him because he has no time to rest. So, the people of Kabwe have been writing letters requesting me to ask the Government when it will send another Judge to replace the one we lost. This is our plea.

Madam Speaker: The question is a bit specific. I do not know if Her Honour the Vice- President can answer that.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the wonderful and kind words of congratulations to the United Party for National Development (UPND) party, which I am part of. They did well in Lumezi, Chibalala and Tuwa in the Western Province. Indeed, we receive those kind words of congratulations. Somebody is shouting, “Signal!” So, get ready!

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I hear the concern from the hon. Member that judgments are taking too long. I could not hear everything, but from the little I got, she indicated that cases are taking too long, and that justice delayed is justice denied. I think that is the principle she laid before asking the question. She said that they lost a judge two years ago, and because of that, there is delay because there is only one Judge who has to look at all the cases. The question is: When are we sending another judge?

Madam Speaker, if I have to be like you the counsels, as Zambians know, the separation of power is something serious. In as much as the Executive plays a role in the appointment, just like this House, the actual separation of power squarely lies in the Judiciary. The appointing, as to who goes where, in my understanding is administrative under the Judiciary. All we can do in this House is encourage one another. Much as there are three wings of the Government, the hon. Member’s concern is the Executive’s concern and we can remind our colleagues in the Judiciary to ensure that Judges are sent. However, I am sure, this Government, through the hon. Minister of Justice, is working on how to increase the number of Judges. I think that is the cry everywhere and this Government, through the hon. Minister of Justice and the President, has noted that gap and is working on how to increase the establishment number, and that is key. Therefore, we are trying to increase the establishment number for the Supreme Court, the High Court and the Appeals Court. The Government has really been working on that. We need, indeed, justice to be delivered on time. We will remind our colleagues in the Judiciary to expeditiously work on how we can have a Judge or an extra Judge in Central Province.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, in the next few months, Zambia will have general elections and we have seen how the United Party for National Development (UPND) has managed to gain its momentum. If you look at Kawambwa, it was kwenyu. If you look at Pambashe, it was kwenyu and, now, Lumezi is another kwenyu. What word of advice does Her Honour the Vice-President have for the Zambian people as we head towards the general elections?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, is it now kwenyu? We used to have nike.

Laughter

The Vice-President: It is really doing very well. How has the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government gained momentum? I thank the hon. Member for Kabwata for that question and I thank you, Madam Speaker, for helping us move this way.

Madam Speaker, I will start by giving a Zambian proverb because sometimes English gets lost in my mind and I think in vernacular. There is a saying where I come from, I am sure, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili will agree with the saying that icikwanka – …

Mr Mabeta: Bacimwena kumapalanya.

The Vice-President: … thank you – bacimwena kumapalanya.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Meaning!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, can I even interrupt but it simply means –

Mr B. Mpundu: What kwankas you.

Laughter

The Vice-President: That is why we love you.

Madam Speaker, icikwanka simply means the one who helps you. You will see them by their actions. So, what does it mean in the scenario of this question? What it simply means is that Zambians have seen the works that this Government is doing. Therefore, come 2026, they have already seen, kwenyu. They have already seen. All we need is for the hon. Member for Nkana to join the winning team. So, I am inviting hon. Members, so that we can work together to improve the livelihoods of our people because we are doing well. It will be very difficult for anybody to go to the people who are seeing what the Government is doing, to tell them otherwise. It will be a difficult battle so the hon. Member for Chama North should make a decision to be in the winning team because he will have no message for the people of Chama North. They have already seen; kwenyu. That is the situation.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: I have seen the hon. Member for Nkana has not protested. Silence means consent to the invitation.

Laughter

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker –

Hon. UPND Member: Former President!

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I thank the Vice-President, not former Madam Vice-President.

Interruptions

Mr Sampa: I am constrained to congratulate you on the so-called victories. More so, Her Honour the Vice-President is aware that the kwenyu that is going on now, reminds us of the cwela of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) time, where they were winning more by-elections in order to lose the big one, the general election.

Interruptions

Mr Sampa: It is called Nalumangonomics, winning more in order to lose the big one.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, there is a saying that ‘apafwile insofu nelyashi libapo lya nsofu,’ meaning when an elephant dies in the village, the villagers have no other way but to discuss the elephant’s death.

Madam Speaker, I will read the question so that I do not digress. The President of Zambia, President HH (Hakainde Hichilema), announced the cancellation of the prolonged mourning period so that the nation could return to normalcy and move on. After we had mourned for over a week, the mourning period was extended by two weeks, and before that period expired, it was officially cancelled so that the nation could move on.

Madam Speaker, instead of the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government abiding by that guidance, it u-turned and sued the grieving family in a South African court. In the chilingalinga fashion, they say one thing and do the other thing. They sued the grieving family in a South African court incurring a lot of expenditure; it is going to cost this country a lot of money. Only yesterday, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning brought a request here for supplementary estimates. He has run out of money, that is what it means. The question is: Why has the Government decided to prolong this funeral because that court case will not end until after another two months? They are making the country not to be in normalcy. How will the country move on? Why did the Government decide to prolong this funeral, sue the grieving family and not show empathy towards it?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero. Apa fwele insofu nelyashi lya nsofu.

Madam Speaker, I think that the cancellation was important. It was important that the period of mourning, not the mourning, comes to an end at that time because we needed to go back to normalcy. However, we have to go back to the President’s speech. It was not that the matter was closed completely, that is not the way it was put. I think it was left inconclusive; we had to wait. Indeed, we waited to see whether a decision suitable for the Zambians would be made. The situation has not been resolved.

Madam Speaker, there is now a phrase going around that I did not know existed; mortal remains. The question around the nation is: How should we handle the mortal remains of our late former President and of those who will serve as President later? I think, we need some guidance on the matter. I understand that it is not an easy matter to handle. At the moment, I do not want to say something that might be deemed sub-judice. However, I wish to state that we have failed to contain our emotions in handling the matter. It is understood that our former President’s family, his party and the nation at large all have a claim to his mortal remains. If he was an ordinary person, I think, the question of where his body should be buried would not have arisen. Who can go and claim the body of a nobody or somebody who is not your family member? What we are dealing with is a different matter and we have to settle it properly for the sake of future generations in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, as we have said, the late former President should be given a dignified burial. That is still the position of the Government. I know there are questions to be answered. So, who will provide answers to those questions? We have gone to an independent arbiter to help us settle the matter because the two parties involved have failed. So, we are waiting to settle the impasse that has ensued. There is no intention of prolonging the pain that is arising from not burying the body. There is none at all.

Madam Speaker, as I have already said, the late former President was not an ordinary person. I further said that we confuse ourselves when we think that the President of the Republic of Zambia is only President of the United Party for National Development (UPND). He is President for all of us. Whether we love him or not, he is the President for everyone, including the hon. Member for Chipili and – whom have I left out? That is something we should not forget. President Hakainde Hichilema is the one in power now. Whether one likes him or not, he is the President. Similarly, the late former President was everyone’s President. So, we all have a claim to him. That is why we are talking about his funeral being done properly. At the point we have reached, there is no alternative. The hon. Member for Matero should know that that is the way to go. We want to bury the late President properly. If we lose the case in court, it will be recorded that the Government made every effort to properly bury an individual who belonged to the public. My President tells his family that it has married him off to 20 million people. The family gave him to all of us, whether some decide to insult and praise him. Does that happen to an ordinary person?

Hon. Government Members: No!

The Vice-President: It does not happen. So, we should not talk about how the former President was treated. He was treated like that because of the office he occupied. It had nothing to do with hatred. He was our President and every effort will be made to bring him home. If we lose the court case, there will be nothing we can do because we would have gone as far as we could to bring him home. Giving our Presidents proper burials is something that will be carried on. It will be done for other leaders who will choose to serve the public because they will not only belong to their families.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, I would like to say good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, unlike the other three former Presidents, that is President RB (Rupiah Banda), President Kaunda and President Chiluba, ECL (Edgar Chagwa Lungu) is the only former President who died without enjoying any benefits from the State.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Order, Hon. Member for Mpika!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

I think, it is not –

Mr Kapyanga remained standing.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mpika!

Mr Kapyanga resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, we have discussed this matter long enough. Why are we discussing a matter that is before the courts of law? We went to console the family and we have witnessed what is happening. Why do we have to keep on referring to the same matter? Let us leave the courts to make a decision. For now, let us move on.

Hon. Member for Mpika, ask a question on something else.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I appreciate your guidance, which comes with a lot of wisdom. However, although you have given that guidance, out there, President ECL is still being insulted, even in death.

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: Takwaba!

Mr Kapyanga: These people (pointed at hon. Government Members) are churning out a lot of propaganda.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: You cannot raise a point of order, hon. Member.

Hon. Member for Mpika, please, let us try being civil about that matter. We are talking about somebody who was President and has now passed on. Let us accord him respect. When we debate about him in this House, we are not respecting him. Please, let us allow him to rest in peace. The court will decide on the matter. So, let us leave it at that. I guided the House earlier on the issue. So, let us move on

Hon. Member for Mkushi South, you may proceed.

Hon. Government Members: Vigayo!

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, listen to what these criminals are saying. I need your protection.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Sorry, I did not get you, hon. Member. What did you say?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, withdraw the word ‘criminals’.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘criminals’ and replace it with ‘thieves’.

Hon. Member: Or plunderers!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member from Mkushi South –

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mkushi South, you are a dignified member of this House. Let us honour the decorum of the House so that the people who are listening are not misled by our utterances. Please, choose your words properly. The words that you use determine what kind of a person you are and what message you are sending out there. So, let us choose our words. You must guard your tongue.

You may proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I sincerely apologise and withdraw my statement. I replace those words with ‘unreasonable’ people.

Laughter

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, in her spare time, I am sure Her Honour the Vice-President checks what is happening on social media. I am sure she checks the comments that are made, especially on platforms such as Koswe, Kalemba and the Zambian Watchdog.

Madam Speaker, since you have guided that the House should not talk about the late ECL (Edgar Chagwa Lungu), what is the Government doing to ensure that well-known social media platforms, …

Hon. Member: Managed by State House.

Mr Chisopa: … run by people known by the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, –

Laughter

Hon. Members: He knows them!

Mr Chisopa: What is the Government doing to ensure that ‘normacity’ is brought back to this country?

Hon. Member: Normacity?

Interruptions

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, the level –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we listen.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, the level of hate being spread on social media platforms is unacceptable in this country. What is the Government doing to ensure that the three social media platforms I have mentioned are curtailed because of their bad reporting?

Mr B. Mpundu: Ba Jack Mwiimbu!

Mr Amutike: Spell ‘normacity’.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mongu Central!

Mr Amutike: Normacity!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mkushi South, how do you spell normacity?

Laughter

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, it was a slip of the tongue. It is normalcy.

Madam Speaker: Normalcy, yes. Okay.

Your Honour the Vice-President.

The Vice-President: Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I would like to thank the hon. Member for Mkushi South.

Madam Speaker, I understand normacity. Like I keep saying, the language we use in this House is our second language, and we create words. The hon. Member, at least, was within the line, I think, he was trying to create a noun from a verb, or is it a verb from a noun? So, we have a new word in the dictionary today, normacity.

Laughter

The Vice-President: It is normal, hon. Colleagues.

Mr Mubika: Spell it.

The Vice-President: He spelled it.

Okay, I think, we should move on.

Madam Speaker, the concern of the hon. Member is that some media platforms in the country have continued insulting. I do not know who they insult. Is it the late former President?

An hon. Member interjected.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I have told the House before that if people insult me today, firstly, it is not me, because they do not know me. They are insulting the Vice-President. One has to understand this if one is engaging in politics. Immediately, I vacate this position, does the House think those who insult will insult me?

Hon. Members: No!

The Vice-President: So, we are failing to understand. The issue of insulting is what the Cyber Crimes Act addresses. Madam Speaker, nobody should be insulted, but how is the Cyber Crimes Act couched?

Mr B. Mpundu: There is a gap.

The Vice President: If there is a gap, the hon. Minister is waiting. I may be poor in these things the hon. Member is talking about but, at least, I have seen that even through the same cyberspace, one can report. There is a provision.

Mr Mpundu: Which police?

The Vice-President: No. You know that one can report on Facebook, for example.

Hon. PF Member: But we have channels.

The Vice-President: Yes, you have to know your law. They are answerable to a point. If you complain, the owners of the platform act.

Please, I am not very good at these things despite saying that, maybe, because of my wonderful young age of forty-two –

Mr Chisopa: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: However, you understand that you can report that.

Madam Speaker, if many people report, Facebook will remove that page. The House knows that. Secondly, the Act also gives one the right to report to the police when it is a Zambian scenario. So, are we reporting? Are we saying that we report, but nothing happens concerning these platforms? I do not even read those things. So, I may not know. What I know is the purpose of the Cyber Crimes Act, which is to ensure that we bring sanity. If one sees that somebody is offensive and one knows that the person is Zambian, report them to the police. Then the police will act on that. That is the way it is done. So, let us not sit on issues. When we feel that the insults are beyond, then we should report, and such people will be taken care of.

Madam Speaker, that is what I can say on the hon. Member’s concern.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, it is gratifying that the country recorded a bumper harvest during the 2024/2025 Farming Season. Unfortunately, Chama was hit by a severe drought, whose effects have threatened household food security. The situation has been exacerbated due to human-animal conflict. What measures is the Government putting in place to ensure that both the people of Chama North and Chama South do not die of starvation?

The Vice-President: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Chama North for speaking for the people of Chama.

Madam Speaker, in the four years we have been in this House, the hon. Member will agree that this has been an annual question, or is it an annual scenario for the people of Chama. So, in asking the Government, the question is: How have they survived the four years? The hon. Member must know the answer and should just go through the process that he has gone through before. People have not died from hunger in Chama, yet this is what we hear, year in and year out. Maybe, it is time the hon. Member asked a question on the Floor, like the hon. Member for Luanshya, to say that this Government has done this and has done that so that I can say, “Continue”, because the Office of the Vice-President, through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), has stood with the people of Chama North and Chama South. We respond. However, maybe, being the kind person that I am, coming from the right place, for the sake of these people, we had better shift them.

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: Yes!

The Vice-President: Yes. Madam Speaker, even Chipili has space for the people of Chama. Every year, the situation is the same. We should find a permanent solution, and I am offering one. Kaputa and Chipili have space for the people of Chama so that this question can come to an end. The people of Chama should be taken to Kaputa and Chipili. There is space there. They fight with animals, they have drought, and another year it will be floods. It is not fit for human habitation. Is that what the hon. Member is declaring?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government and party for winning all three by-elections; …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubika: … two ward by-elections and one parliamentary by-election.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, again, we lost a life in my village because of elephants. The police tried to pick up the body, but they were chased by the same elephants. This morning, the police have gone, again, to see how they can get the body. I have been crying. I have been requesting the Government to put up measures to ensure that the elephants are driven out of Shangombo. However, the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) is doing little. I have been told that they are supposed to be driven to Monze Central. What measures is the Government going to put in place to ensure that these jumbos are driven out of Shangombo to save the lives of the people?

The Vice President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Shangombo and, indeed, again, I thank him for taking note of the win by this political party, the UPND, the party in power. I thank him very much. He should not listen to people who say, “No, you win small to lose big”. No, no, no, no, this is a wonderful signal. I would have explained the scenario of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), but I will leave it for now. We are winning and we will win, and win big. The MMD was in power for twenty years. So, it was not a small feat.

Madam Speaker, as hon. Member for Chama North said, there are issues of human-animal conflict and also, the destruction of crops by animals. I do not know the answer, honestly, because there are so many things that are affected by this scenario. It is a matter we should take a little more seriously together. We cannot continue like that. Now, what should we do?

Madam Speaker, I therefore, appeal to the hon. Members on your left to come on board. If they have solutions, they should come and help us. We have not said we have the monopoly of wisdom and knowledge. We are available. We need everybody to come on board to help us handle the human-animal conflict which has been going on for a long time. People ask me, but I have no answers. Sorry to answer like that. I therefore, think we need a more comprehensive answer as a nation. What should we do?

Madam Speaker, the joke I made about Chama is not the answer because one cannot lift a whole generation. That was a joke. Seriously speaking, we must look at the human-animal conflict. I have no answer today.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

That concludes that segment. Just to comment on that, hon. Members who have jumbos in their constituencies, there is something that we are doing. You may remember that there was a One-Man Committee that was appointed. The hon. Member for Chama South has done something regarding that and we are working on measures to see what we can learn from the efforts he has implemented. We are also engaging the hon. Minister of Tourism. It is just a matter of resources, but we will be making some announcements so that we have a Select Committee to look into these issues of human-animal conflicts. That is how we should be working. What solutions are we bringing to the table? We cannot keep on complaining. Whereas Her Honour the Vice-President has the power to resettle people, although it was a joke, she cannot resettle elephants. That was on a lighter note. Seriously speaking, we are working on something. I am also concerned about the issue of conflicts of elephants and humans.

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

MATTERS OF NATIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL SIGNIFICANCE ON THE ESCALATING SECURITY SITUATION IN THE MIDDLE EAST, THE OFFICIAL VISIT TO ZAMBIA BY THE UNITED NATIONS SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR AND ZAMBIA’S POTENTIAL INCLUSION ON THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT TRAVEL BAN LIST

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation (Mr Haimbe, SC.): Madam Speaker, I rise to address this august House and the nation at large on three important matters of national and international significance.

Madam Speaker, firstly, I will present the Government's response to the escalating security situation in the Middle East, specifically the confrontation between the State of Israel and the Islamic Republic of Iran and provide an update on the situation of Zambian nationals in the affected areas. Secondly, I will deliver a statement on the official visit to Zambia by the United Nations Special Rapporteur on the Promotion and Protection of the Right to Freedom of Opinion and Expression, Ms Irene Khan, which took place from 20^th to 31^st January, 2025. Thirdly, I will inform the House of a matter of national importance concerning formal communication received from the United States (U.S) Government regarding Zambia’s potential inclusion on its travel ban list, and the measures being undertaken to address the concerns raised.

The Evacuation of Zambians from Israel and Monitoring of Developments in Iran

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation has been closely monitoring the unfolding military tensions and hostilities between Iran and Israel, which have resulted in widespread insecurity, aerial bombardments, missile attacks, and heightened regional instability. The escalation, which has included direct strikes and proxy actions across the region, has presented grave risks to both civilians and military personnel.

Impact on Zambians in the Region

Madam Speaker, at the onset of the crisis, Zambia had and continues to have, a number of nationals residing in both Iran and Israel. These included students, religious pilgrims, diplomatic personnel, tourists, and professionals working in various sectors. Given the unpredictability of the security situation, the Government activated its crisis monitoring and evacuation protocols in both countries. I will begin by giving an update on the emergency response for Israel.

Madam Speaker, there is currently a ceasefire between Israel and Iran. However, we are making necessary arrangements to evacuate our nationals in the event that it does not hold. Our mission in Tel Aviv, immediately activated an emergency tracking and communication mechanism to account for all registered Zambians.

Madam Speaker, further, they conducted a route reconnaissance to establish the most suitable border crossing to exit Israel. A co-ordinated task force team, involving the Cabinet Office, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, the Ministry of Defence, the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, Office of the President (OP) and the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) was revived from the previous evacuation exercise for our citizens residing in Israel. A verified list of Zambians in Israel was also compiled.

Madam Speaker, as of 20^thJune, 2025, the following evacuation measures were successfully implemented:

a total of 177 Zambians were registered and prioritised for evacuation through the Taba border crossing into Egypt;

route reconnaissance confirmed Egypt as the most viable exit route;

vulnerable individuals, including students, minors, and persons with health conditions, were given priority; and

evacuees received consular assistance and guidance on safe passage.

Madam Speaker, I must emphasise that the evacuation exercise has not actually been undertaken as these were merely preparatory works while we continue to monitor the situation. I must also emphasise that as the aforementioned date, there has been no message received from Tel Aviv to the effect of any Zambian being killed or injured in the hostilities.

Engagement with Iran

Madam Speaker, while Zambia does not maintain a resident diplomatic mission in Iran, the mission in Cairo, Egypt has extra accreditation to Iran and has been monitoring the situation in that country. I wish to report that, as of the latest verified updates:

there are four Zambian nationals currently in Iran;

no casualties or injuries involving Zambians in Iran have been reported;

they have been advised to observe maximum caution, remain in contact with designated liaison officers; and

the Ministry, in liaison with our missions in Ankara and Cairo is making necessary arrangements to facilitate their evacuation should the situation deteriorate.

Ongoing Monitoring and Support

Madam Speaker, the ministry continues to monitor the evolving situation in both Israel and Iran. In view of the ceasefire that has been declared, the situation appears to be returning to normal for the time being. The ministry also continues to maintain open communication with Zambian families for reassurance and status updates and continues to offer consular support to any Zambians who may still be within the region by choice or circumstance.

INCLUSION OF ZAMBIA ON THE UNITED STATES TRAVEL BAN LIST

Madam Speaker, with your permission, I now move to the second issue.

Formal Communication from the United States Government

Madam Speaker, I wish to update this august House that the Government of the Republic of Zambia has received formal communication from the United States (US) Government indicating that it is considering imposing travel restrictions on Zambia should certain outstanding concerns remain unaddressed within a specified timeframe, that being sixty days.

Madam Speaker, the basis of the proposed travel restrictions is premised on three core concerns, namely:

passport security, including the integrity of Zambia’s travel documents and vulnerabilities in the issuance system;

immigration enforcement, particularly Zambia’s handling of removal orders for nationals residing irregularly in the US; and

information-sharing deficiencies, specifically, the lack of robust intergovernmental co-operation on identity verification, repatriation and security alerts.

Madam Speaker, the immediate ramifications of the ban include but are not limited to the following:

reduced access to the US for Zambian nationals;

negative economic and investment signals;

diaspora and family challenges; and

disruption to bilateral programmes.

Madam Speaker, the long-term strategic implications include but are not limited to the following:

reputational risk in the global arena;

reduced diplomatic leverage; and

investor risk perception.

Madam Speaker, in view of the serious nature of the matters at hand in relation to this issue, the Government has taken decisive steps to address it. Among the steps that have been taken include but are not limited to:

Initiated a Review of Passport Security Measures

Madam Speaker, this, quite clearly, is a matter which is of national security concern, and therefore, more details regarding the exercise cannot be ventilated in the public domain. Suffice to say, the exercise is underway, and has been underway, under the auspices of the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security for quite a while.

Strengthened Migration Enforcement Co-operation

Madam Speaker, collaborative measures are underway to improve the repatriation of Zambians with final removal orders, in full respect of human rights and due process.

Engaged the US Government at the Diplomatic Level

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation has formally responded to the US Embassy and has instructed Zambia’s Mission in Washington, to seek continuous engagement with the US Department of State and Homeland Security. Our goal is to have Zambia removed from consideration within the sixty-day period aforementioned.

Madam Speaker, I also wish to update this honourable House on recent engagements with the US Embassy here in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this House that a meeting was held with the US Ambassador to Zambia and his team on 24^th June, 2025, at high level, meaning that I personally attended to that meeting given the importance of the matters at play. Amongst the measures agreed during the meeting were the following:

Formal Diplomatic Engagement

Madam Speaker, the meeting addressed the rationale behind Zambia’s potential inclusion on the US travel ban list and reaffirmed both countries commitment to resolving outstanding consular and security matters. In other words, the two countries are looking at resolving this challenge together in joint consultation.

Establishment of Regular Consultative Mechanism

Madam Speaker, it was agreed that a regular consultative mechanism be established. It was also agreed that periodic meetings will be held with our counterparts to ensure that there is consistent communication, early warning, and joint tracking of all critical consular issues, including the issue of integrity of the travel document and immigration matters.

Madam Speaker, other matters agreed were to enhance data sharing on overstayers and fast-track response to extradition requests.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion on this particular aspect, I wish to assure this august House and the nation at large that the Government has already made notable progress in addressing several of the concerns raised. We remain fully committed to resolving this matter swiftly and transparently. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, in collaboration with all relevant ministries and stakeholders, is actively engaging the US with the aim of securing Zambia’s removal from consideration within the diplomatic window provided.

Let me emphasise, Madam Speaker, that this development does not signify a rupture in Zambia/US relations. Rather, it presents an opportunity to reaffirm our commitment to international co-operation, institutional strengthening, and the security and dignity of all Zambians both at home and abroad.

THE OFFICIAL VISIT TO ZAMBIA BY THE UNITED NATIONS SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR

With your permission, Madam Speaker, I will now move to the third and final issue, which is in relation to the official visit to Zambia by the United Nations (UN) Special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of the right of freedom of opinion and expression, Ms Irene Khan, which took place on 20^th to 31^st January, 2025.

Madam Speaker, this marked the first visit to Zambia by a special procedures mandate holder of the UN in eight years, and the first specifically focusing on civil and political rights. This milestone alone reflects Zambia’s democratic trajectory, openness to scrutiny, and its commitment to constructive engagement with international human rights institutions.

Background

Madam Speaker, special rapporteurs are independent experts appointed by the UN Human Rights Council to assess and report on the human rights situation in specific countries upon invitation. In keeping up with its principles of transparency, accountability, and commitment to fundamental freedoms, the Government extended such an invitation to Ms Khan in good faith. During her visit, she engaged in wide-ranging consultations with Government institutions, civil society, the media, academia, and other stakeholders across the country, including opposition political parties. Her report presents a candid assessment of the progress made by Zambia and the challenges that remain in promoting freedom of opinion and expression.

Key Observations

Madam Speaker, the special rapporteur commended Zambia for a number of key reforms that illustrate our commitment to democratic governance. Among the positive developments cited were:

the enactment of the Access to Information Act in 2023;

the repeal of the offence of Criminal Defamation of the President; and

Zambia’s bid for election to the UN Human Rights Council for the 2027–2029 term.

However, Madam Speaker, she also noted some areas requiring urgent attention. These include:

the need to repeal the Public Order Act;

concerns around the independence of public media;

challenges related to digital inclusion, gender-based online abuse, and the spread of disinformation and;

the need for consistent implementation of reforms, ahead of the 2026 General Elections.

Importantly, Madam Speaker, during her oral presentation to the Human Rights Council in Geneva, the special rapporteur acknowledged Zambia as a positive example of democratic transition in the region. She welcomed our openness to dialogue and urged continued reforms striking a constructive and optimistic tone.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to state that the Government of the Republic of Zambia welcomes the visit and the constructive findings of the Special Rapporteur. Her recommendations align well with our constitutional values and long-term governance priorities. As such, the Government remains committed to a systematic and co-ordinated implementation process. Zambia’s engagement with the Special Rapporteur is a testament to our resolve to uphold human rights, democracy and the rule of law. We shall continue to work collaboratively with stakeholders, both domestic and international, to build a just, open and inclusive society, and to address the concerns and challenges identified by the Special Rapporteur during her visit.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

Hon. Members, three issues have been raised here. The issues are crosscutting and not related. So, we will see how we will proceed.

Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement presented by the hon. Minister.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Minister for a candid Ministerial Statement.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that Zambia has been placed on the list of countries whose citizens will be banned from travelling to the United States of America (USA). If that travel ban is enforced, how will the relationship between Zambia and the USA be, going forward? Will it be sour, lukewarm or unfriendly? I would like to hear a comment from the hon. Minister on the matter.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, let me just offer clarification. Zambia has not been placed on that list yet, but it is under consideration. This, of course, in itself, is a matter of concern. Hence the diligent efforts that have been made to address the situation before it comes to pass. If it does, indeed, come to pass, the question is whether that will sour relations between Zambia and the USA.

Madam Speaker, I wish to state that the relationship between Zambia and the USA, first of all, is anchored on many different facets and has been sustained for many years. Therefore, one particular aspect, though negative, should not necessarily have a detrimental effect on the relationship. We will continue to value our partners who, we understand, are making policy changes to protect their interests, and it is only expected that as good friends, Zambians will adjust to the situation. However, it would be a grave inconvenience to the people of Zambia should the ban be imposed. We must work together as stakeholders to ensure that we avoid that from occurring.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I can see that Her Honour the Vice-President has left, but I am reliably informed that she has a plan with the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts for the people of Chama to be moved from there so that they can secretly occupy Chama. We are aware, and we are not leaving Chama for them to settle there. This is because when the people from the northern region are transferred to Chama, they do not want to leave. Some even commit suicide when they are told that they have been transferred out of Chama.

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, Zambia has been enjoying a very good relationship with the United States of America (USA). Particularly, President Hakainde Hichilema has done everything possible to restore the relationship.

Madam Speaker, at some point, the US Ambassador to Zambia, Daniel Foote, was expelled from this country by the previous Government. However, the current Government has done everything possible to ensure that the relationship is restored. What misinformation could have been traded between the USA and our Government, for the former to consider putting Zambia on the list of countries whose citizens are banned from travelling to the USA? This Government has done everything possible to ensure that the relationship remains mutual. So, what could be the main reason for the situation we are talking about?

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

Her Honour the Vice-President has some engagements. She has left a very capable team to cover her absence. She has sought leave to go and attend to other issues.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Chama South for the observations he has put forward in his question. Indeed, we cannot gloss over the significant efforts that President Hakainde Hichilema, our chief diplomat, has made to secure good relations, not only with the USA, but also with several countries across the globe. As His Excellency the President says, it is truly Zambia ku chalo. In other words, ‘Zambia to the world’.

Madam Speaker, to answer specifically the question raised by the hon. Member for Chama South, I wish to state that considering placing Zambia on the list of restricted countries is purely a technical matter relating to the security of some of the documents used by our citizens to travel to the USA. It also relates to the failure of some Zambian citizens to return to Zambia when their stay in the USA has expired. So, it does not necessarily relate to the core of the relationship between Zambia and the USA.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Kwacha, please, just hold on. We will be adjourning shortly. Please, let us make sure that the Quorum is maintained. I promised to be the gatekeeper.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, in short, the hon. Member for Chama South should know that the situation does not necessarily relate to the core of the relationship between Zambia and the USA, which continues to be strong. It is rather about technical matters, which we believe will be addressed through our joint efforts, and the eventual removal of Zambia from consideration will be achieved.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, my concern is about our brothers and sisters currently living in the two countries. The hon. Minister has assured us that –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Chama South, please, I am begging you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: There is just another twenty minutes remaining. Please, let us just hold on.

May the hon. Member for Chifubu continue.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has given us an assurance that there is likely to be a cease-fire and that, at this stage, there have been no casualties or deaths recorded among our brothers and sisters in both countries. However, the Government is still monitoring the situation before it can consider evacuating our nationals. Why would we wait for the situation to worsen before evacuating them? Why can the Government not take a bold step towards evacuating our brothers and sisters from the two countries? If it means returning them to those countries, the Government can do that after the situation has normalised.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, it is not entirely correct to say that we are waiting for the situation to worsen. There are specific protocols that are followed and triggers that are looked at in order to effect an evacuation. The hon. Member may want to take note of the fact that an evacuation amounts to extensive distraction of the lives of the people, whose lives have been disrupted, and the environment in which they work and live. It is, therefore, a matter of last rather than first resort. Further, not effecting the evacuation immediately means that we have effective monitoring mechanisms that will ensure that no lives are put in danger, first of all, and, more importantly, as mentioned in the Ministerial Statement, all our ducks are in a row. The protocols are such that should a decision be made that a situation warrants immediate evacuation, that can be done quickly. So, I can assure the people of Zambia and the hon. Member for Chifubu that the ministry is on top of things. Including, by the way –

Ms Mulenga walked to the exit.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalulushi, please, do not leave the House. It is just another eight minutes more. We need to conclude this.

Ms Mulenga resumed her seat.

Madam Speaker: Thank you for your understanding.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, the reports by the United Nations (UN) Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Opinion and Expression both when she was in the country and when she reported to UN office speak more on the infringement of our human rights, namely the right to hold dissenting views and our freedom of speech. She, particularly, highlighted provisions of the law that are not only archaic, but also work contrary as regards promoting democracy. These include hate speech, which is vague and subject to abuse, and seditious practice, which in a normal situation today is not used in many countries because of its vagueness and is subject to abuse. On top of that list are the provisions in the new cyber laws that infringe on our rights and freedoms. Coupled with the latest Bill that was presented to Parliament, which is about to be signed into law; the Closed-Circuit Television Public Protection Bill, which again adds to that list of infringements on our rights. Does the hon. Minister not think that it would be prudent to take affirmative action in addressing these provisions of the law before this Parliament is dissolved so that we continue promoting the rights and freedoms of our people, particularly because we boast about being a democratic dispensation?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Nkana for his opinion, and the question that follows his opinion.

Madam Speaker, as with any opinion, I beg to differ significantly with the hon. Member’s assertions that the laws that are in our statutes are meant to infringe on the rights of citizens. To the contrary, and has been clearly stated in recent debates on the Floor of this House, the laws are meant to protect the interests and rights of citizens and, of course, the wellbeing of the country. Those who believe that laws are in place to infringe on their rights often tend to abuse those laws. The UN Special Rapporteur took particular note as well of rising instances of abuse of laws and guaranteed rights in this country through, in particular, social media, which is being regulated via the Cyber Security Law. Therefore, it is not correct to suggest that the UN Special Rapporteur made specific findings on the infringement of rights. To the contrary, I repeat: there was commendation of the effort put in place by the Zambian Government and the progress that we have made. Notwithstanding, I concede that there is still room for improvement. However, to suggest, especially given our historical context where we are coming from, that there has been a decline in the protection of citizens' fundamental rights, is a complete and total misnomer and the people of Zambia must see it as such.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker –

Mr B. Mpundu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: There is an indication for a point of order.

Hon. Member for Nkana, what is your point of order?

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, for the record, our Standing Orders dictate that we speak to facts. I just want to be sure, with your guidance, that we are speaking to the report of the UN Special Rapporteur. Clearly, the hon. Minister is not speaking to that report, because the report speaks to the abuse of rights. If it would please the House, maybe, we need to make the two reports available; the one tendered when she left and the one submitted at the UN, so that we are on the same page.

Madam Speaker: The problem with that point of order is that it is trying to respond to the hon. Minister’s response.

Hon. Members, the hon. Member for Nkana has said that there were some concerns. The hon. Minister has acknowledged that, indeed, there were some concerns raised, but there was also some commendation. So, we are just talking about the same thing. I think, as a nation, we are striving to make Zambia a better place to live in by ensuring that we respect the laws and also our rights.

Let us make progress.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, the United Nations (UN) Special Rapporteur said that Zambia is at a crossroads and that continued selective application of the law, such as the Public Order Act, is a serious infringement on the right to freedom. Since 2021, only two or three political parties have been allowed to gather. Even those who seek the permission of the police to protest have been stopped. I take note of the hon. Minister's submission, and I want to ask: Does the hon. Minister commit to the Government addressing the concerns raised in the report, going forward, and that the people of Zambia will not see the selective application of the law?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, the devil is in the details. The hon. Member has suggested that there was a finding or report to the effect that there is selective application of the Public Order Act. That is not true. The UN Special Rapporteur found, and I mentioned in my Ministerial Statement, that there is a need for archaic laws, like the Public Order Act, to be addressed. There is a huge divide between what the hon. Member is suggesting and what the UN Special Rapporteur stated in her report. We need to be genuine when we raise these matters to the people of Zambia on the Floor of this House. That being said, the New Dawn Government has demonstrated its willingness to implement respect for the rule of law, and we shall do so in accordance with what external stakeholders advise.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Allen Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, will we not break off before I ask my question?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Allen Banda: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to ask a question on a point of clarification. My concern is on the passengers flying from Zambia to the Middle East in transit or connecting flights. They are crossing over a war zone. What advice would they be given because some of them could be stranded in the Middle East, or be caught up in crossfire?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chimwemwe for that very important question. My advice is that they should closely follow travel advisories being issued by airlines, particularly, those that operate in the region before embarking on any trip. Indeed, as the hon. Member has rightly pointed out, there are restrictions on flyover rights in some conflict zones.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation for the Ministerial Statement and the responses he is giving. The diplomacy and sovereignty of a country are very important and I will cite an example. Madam Speaker, as hon. Members, we were supposed to travel to Berlin. We applied for visas through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation. However, the Ambassador, whom the Permanent Secretary (PS) spoke to in my presence, denied us the visas.

Madam Speaker, how we are treated is how we should reciprocate as a country. Not only that, the United Kingdom (UK) years back, shifted its consular section from Zambia to South Africa. So, we do not get visas to go to the UK from Zambia, but from South Africa. That happened a long time ago, but we have not reciprocated as a country. So, why do we not reciprocate the way we are treated? I asked the PS, and he said that sometimes our colleagues are given visas upon landing at the airport, but we were denied visas.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa for that question. Indeed, reciproc –

Hon. Government Member: Reciprocity!

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Yes, that word.

Laughter

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, indeed, reciprocity is a cornerstone of diplomacy. As part of our economic diplomacy, we put up a policy to increase visits to our country. This was done to open up to various jurisdictions, of course, subject to certain criteria on the number of visitors who come to the country, security, and other concerns. We were proactive and determined to open up for many of our partner countries. We are currently working on ensuring that our partners reciprocate our gesture. It is an on-going process. It is not as straightforward as we would want it to be. However, I agree with the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, that where we have shown that sort of gesture, we expect our partners to equally show us that they value our friendship. One way of doing that is to relax entry restrictions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for those various Ministerial Statement.

Madam Speaker, the United States of America (USA) has strong systems, and I have noted the issue of restrictions. May I know the number of Zambians who have overstayed in the USA and why they have not been deported, given the strength of the systems there such as the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) team that runs around?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank you and I thank the hon. Member for Mbabala for that important question. As I mentioned, that is one of the issues at the centre of consideration of placing Zambia on the banned list because those statistics are not readily available. We have put in place a mechanism where jointly with the USA , we can begin to track the information and act proactively on it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, I thank you the hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement. My question concerns the 177 registered Zambian citizens in Israel. How many of these, on their own, have managed to leave that country for safety?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Pemba for that question.

Madam Speaker, as of now, we have not received any information of voluntary repatriation of citizens who are residents in Israel or, indeed, Iran. Maybe, that is because they are also able to monitor the safety situation and so, have not determined that they need to evacuate as at now. However, again, the situation can evolve and change quite rapidly. So, for that reason, our embassy in Tel Aviv is being very proactive and literally undertaking daily checks on the 177 citizens to confirm their well-being and the status of their safety.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement.

Madam Speaker, in his Ministerial Statement, the hon. Minister said that he is addressing some of the concerns raised by the United States of America (USA) Government, which may actually lead the USA Government imposing a travel restriction on Zambia. There is a strong belief that the cyber law, which was passed, could be one of the contributing factors. More importantly, the American Ambassador to Zambia at one time even warned American citizens travelling to Zambia about the cyber law. So, I just want the hon. Minister to confirm whether the issue of the cyber law could potentially be one of the reasons Zambia may have travel restrictions.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chama North for that question.

Madam Speaker, the Ministerial Statement delivered by me a few minutes ago was quite precise on the communication and the reasons received from the US Government for the consideration that we are dealing with, of a possible addition to the ban list. It does not in any way form or shape include matters of our sovereign laws. It is a principle of diplomatic practice that the sovereignty of a country is respected amongst the various aspects that relate to how countries treat each other diplomatically. So, the cyber laws, as put by the hon. Member, cannot be the basis upon which such a decision can be made. I reiterate that they are administrative challenges to do with security protocols around our travel documentation. Full stop. There is no need to speculate on anything else.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Thank you so much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I will take the hon. Minister to the Republic of Israel, where there are so many battlefronts. On one hand, there is Lebanon, Gaza, and now, there is Iran, of course, not forgetting Syria. As you know, Zambia is a signatory to the Hague where Israel is a client. My question is: Is this the perfect time for us to operationalise our mission in the Republic of Israel because we saw the Government trying to open up a mission in the Republic of Israel?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for that question.

Madam Speaker, maybe, just a correction. We are not trying to operationalise the mission. It has been in operation for a few years. In fact, it is not only under this Administration, I believe that it has been in operation.

That being said, Madam Speaker, there are conflicts, unfortunately, in several parts of the globe including in our continent itself. For example, there are conflicts going on in the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). It would be strange, to say the least, that we would then say we must withdraw our mission in the DRC on account of those conflicts. There is no difference with Israel. That is the purpose of diplomacy, of course, keeping in mind the safety of the staff in those missions. One would have to ensure that the missions are present so as to be able to play a role in addressing some of the concerns around the conflicts that are there. Zambia has been clear on matters of conflict. Our policy is that a conflict anywhere is conflict everywhere. Instability anywhere is instability everywhere. Our missions will espouse that principle with a view to playing a role in achieving lasting peace, not only in Israel or anywhere, but also in all other places where we are present and where conflict is taking place. Certainly, in the DRC, our mission is doing that through the platform of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) as well.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, on the request to repeal the Public Order Act, I just want to find out whether there are specific clauses that have been indicated apart from those which were already attended to by the case law.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, we must remember that the rapporteur was specifically invited and is an expert on the rights of the freedom of opinion and expression and so, there will be no specific provision that the rapporteur would cite in that instance because that is not her mandate. As we know, the Public Order Act deals with freedom of assembly and associated rights. So, the rapporteur spoke from the perspective of how generally public order issues have interplay with the right to express oneself, and not specifically to provisions in the Act.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ENHANCEMENT OF SKILLS TRAINING CENTRES, COUNTRYWIDE

358. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Technology and Science what measures the Government is taking to enhance the quality of education provided at skills training centres, countrywide.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima) (on behalf of the Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati)): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the ministry is implementing several transformative measures to enhance the quality of education provided in skills training centres across the country. Working closely with its co-operating partners and the private sector, the ministry is implementing comprehensive reforms and strategic interventions to ensure that the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) is responsive to the needs of the industry, aligned to national development priorities, and capable of producing a competitive future for the workforce.

Provision of State-of-the-Art Equipment

Madam Speaker, in collaboration with partners like German Co-operation for International Co-operation, the World Bank (WB), International Labour Organisation (ILO) and the African Development Bank (ADB), and the private sector through the TEVET Levy, our institutions are being equipped with industry standard equipment in trades such as automotive mechanics, welding, Information Communication Technology (ICT), agriculture and electrical engineering. The ministry has also established partnership frameworks to enhance the delivery of quality and relevant skills training from countries like China. Through these partnerships, TEVET institutions in Zambia have twined with their counterpart institutions in China to learn best practices.

Strengthening Regulatory Compliance

Madam Speaker, to ensure high-quality training provision, the ministry is developing enforceable regulations to operationalise the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Act No. 13 of 1998, as amended by Act No. 11 of 2005.

Curriculum Modernisation

Madam Speaker, the ministry, through TEVETA, has revised curricula in key trades to ensure alignment with current industry standards and emerging technology such as renewable energy, automation and digital fabrication. This decision is in line with national priorities as espoused in the national development plans and policy pronouncements.

Capacity Building for Instructors

Madam Speaker, we have rolled out a nationwide instructor retraining programme to enhance pedagogical skills and technical proficiency. In addition, selected instructors are benefiting from international exchange and up-scaling initiatives in collaboration with institutions from countries such as Germany, China and India. Going forward, the ministry is actively implementing interventions to upgrade selected colleges into polytechnics and construct new ones. These institutions will serve as centres of excellence for industry-responsive training and human capital development. A notable example is the planned construction of a polytechnic college in Chapula, Lufwanyama District. The project is aimed at producing skilled artisans and technicians who can support the mining and manufacturing sectors on the Copperbelt and beyond. The ministry is also going to upgrade some selected trades training institutes to polytechnic universities to enhance the quality of skills delivered and to improve graduates’ output.

Madam Speaker, through those multifaceted and forward-looking reforms, the Government is laying the foundation for a robust, inclusive and future-fit TEVET system. By aligning with national priorities and industry demands, we are preparing Zambians, particularly the youth, to actively contribute to industrialisation, job creation and national economic transformation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, the difficulty I have is that the hon. Minister is acting in place of the substantive hon. Minister. So, it would be difficult for him to comprehend certain questions I wanted to ask. However, –

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I would like to talk about the standard of education in skills training centres. Some students at the Kalabo Trades Training Institute go to study in Mongu because of lack of facilities at that training centre. The hon. Minister said that the ministry is equipping colleges. Is the ministry equipping colleges or it is waiting for equipment to do that?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, this question is generic; it is not specific to trade institutes in Mongu. So, when we say provision of state-of-the-art equipment, we are saying that the equipment was not available, but now we are starting to equip the schools. Some trades institutes already have equipment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, even though I agree with the answers that the hon. Minister has given, I have to say that if you take time to visit the skills training and trade schools in the country, you will find that the type of workshops they have are the old versions, which were donated by the colonial masters. Apart from the Northern Technical College (NORTEC), very few trade schools have modern equipment. How long does the hon. Minister think it will take for the ministry to equip the old technical schools with new equipment? Let us forget about the new ones because I know that they will be equipped because a technical school cannot be built without equipment. How long is it going to take to replace the equipment at schools like Ukwimi Trades Training Institute or Chipata Trades Training Institute? You may agree with me that a good number of technical schools have been turned into business colleges. How long is it going to take to turn such schools back to technical colleges?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think that the hon. Member for Nyimba has already answered his question. He is saying that the equipment available was installed by the colonial masters. You can imagine that that is the situation when colonialism ended fifty years ago. I cannot predict how long it is going to take to finish equipping all the technical colleges, but we have started doing it. I am interested in Ukwimi Trades Training Institute as well.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, my question is a rider to the questions that my hon. Colleagues have asked. The challenge is that there is a discrepancy between the skills of the students trained in training centres and the requirements of industry. We are living in highly technological times, but you will find that when you go to Kalumbila, Lumwana and other mining areas, the students from the training centres cannot operate the machinery in the industry because it does not correlate with what they were trained on. What is the ministry doing to bridge the gap between the demand from industry and the training available?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I did say in my answer to the main question that a notable example is the plan to construct a polytechnic university in Chapula, Lufwanyama District. The project is aimed at producing skilled artisans and technicians who can support the mining and manufacturing sectors on the Copperbelt and beyond.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, since the question has to do with quality of education in skills training centres countrywide, does the hon. Minister know that with the coming of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), the quality of education has been heavily compromised in the centres?

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Fube: Do not say, “Ah”. I will justify my question. You are not the one asking the question.

Madam Speaker, the quality of education in the skills training centres has been compromised heavily by over-enrolment. I do not want to mention some trade schools that the council in my constituency has been grappling with. We send students for three months to those trade schools for driving courses or handling machinery, but the students end up not learning or touching any machinery because of over-enrolment. Many skills training centres have taken the CDF as a gold rush. Even when a course is full, they over-enrol just to get the money from the CDF. They do not pay attention to quality of education.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, what is your question?

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister know that the negative effect of the provision of the CDF, which has been misinterpreted by those at the skills centres, is that over-enrolment has further compromised the quality of education at skills centres?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, what the hon. Member should have asked is not about how the introduction of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has compromised the quality of education because that is not true. The introduction of the CDF is good for our youths. Some training institutions, especially private institutions, have been closed down. We inspect, and once we find the institutions wanting, we close them down. Even the hon. Member should be watchful. He cannot just come to the House to complain instead of reporting the training institutions where students are not learning to the ministry. Most Government skills training institutions teach and have standards even if they do not have state-of-the-art equipment.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about what the hon. Member for Chifubu said. I explained that certain things that were done a long time ago, which are a legacy problem, are difficult to deal with within a given space of time. So, with time, all those issues will be things of the past. We have regulatory instruments that guide the ministry. If there is a college or trades institution that is not performing well, the ministry goes there, and closes it down.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, I want to know the level of staffing in those schools according to the ministry’s rating.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I cannot answer that off the cuff because it was not part of the question.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I will allow the last two hon. Members; the hon. Member for Mbabala and the hon. Member for Muchinga.

Hon. Member for Mbabala, you may proceed.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, we have seen that the schools are doing a good job in terms of using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), as a source of delivery for our youths. Now, some of the courses that might help our youths include cosmetology; painting nails and the like. What is the ministry doing to incorporate new skills into the curriculum that are essential in the current technological know-how? Many factors, such as health issues, come into cosmetology, a skills that people may just utilise on their own, yet there is a science. Cosmetology is a skill, and big industry and business in almost every part of the country.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I mentioned that the ministry is also undertaking curriculum modernisation. Earlier I read:

“The ministry, through TEVETA, has revised the curriculum and continues to revise

key trades to ensure alignment with current industry standards and emerging technologies.”

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Madam Speaker, indeed, consideration of our youths through skills is a good idea by the Government. However, some schools enrol our youths, but at the end of their studies, they graduate without say driving licences, yet they were enrolled for a driving course. What punitive measures is the ministry enforcing on such skills training centres? Serenje District is one example. The district is now struggling to talk to the institutions where youths graduated, yet no licences have been issued up to now. Almost a year has passed. That means that they did nothing.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I have not heard about that, but since the hon. Member has given an example, we will follow it up.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PROCUREMENT OF A BOAT FOR THE DISTRICT EDUCATION BOARD SECRETARY’S OFFICE IN CHILUBI DISTRICT

359. Mr Fube (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Education:

whether the Government has any plans to procure a boat for the District Education Board Secretary’s office in Chilubi District;

if so, when the boat will be procured;

what the estimated cost of the boat is; and

if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to procure an additional boat for the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS)’s office in Chilubi District.

Madam Speaker, in light of the response to part (a) of the question, parts (b) and (c) are not applicable.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Education has already equipped the Chilubi District DEBS’s office with a fully functional boat under the Keeping Girls in School (KGS) initiative. In addition, the office has been allocated two motor vehicles, one designated for use on the mainland and the other one on the island. Given these provisions, and in light of the need to prioritise other equally pressing demands within the constraints of the available fiscal space, the Government has no immediate plans to procure an additional boat at this time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the time the question was filed, I think, I engaged the hon. Minister directly about the boats, which were recently procured, if he remembers well. We were looking at the compromised boat, which is at the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS)’s office. It is just that the question has taken long to be brought to the Floor. The hon. Minister is right to some extent, as far as equipping the district with motor vehicles as well as the Keeping Girls in School (KGS) boat is concerned. So, I would say that the question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Mutelo indicated to speak.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mitete, the question has been overtaken by events. Do you still want to ask something?

Hon. Members: No!

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, this is just to say that what the ministry and the hon. Minister have done in Chilubi; procuring a boat, they have equally done for the Mitete District Education Board Secretary (DEBS). So, I urge the hon. Minister to continue doing that work.

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

CONSTRUCTION OF A ROAD CONNECTING KASHISHI AND LUPIYA WARDS

360. Mr Kandafula (Serenje) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

whether the Government has any plans to construct a road connecting Kashishi and Lupiya Wards in Serenje Parliamentary Constituency;

if so, when the project will be implemented; and

if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I want to know whether we are transacting with the right quorum.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think that is the duty of the Clerks-at-the-Table. They will indicate to me when a quorum collapses.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Sialubalo): Madam Speaker, plans to construct the road connecting Kashishi and Lupiya wards in Serenje Parliamentary Constituency are there.

Madam Speaker, plans will be implemented as soon as funds are available and upon receiving a request from the local authority. As already mentioned, plans are there.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kandafula: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that positive answer. Indeed, as he always says, physical communication promotes the development that we need. For Lupiya and Kashishi wards to develop, there is a need for a good road network. That is why I emphasise that the road connecting the two wards should be constructed. Money should be quickly sought because the road will eventually connect Chitambo Constituency and Muchinga Constituency through Chimupata. This will ease the transportation of people and goods and eventually take development to Serenje. The last time that part of the road in Serenje was done was during the United Nations Independence Party (UNIP) era. Otherwise, we are thankful.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That was a comment. Does the hon. Minister want to add to that comment?

Mr Sialubalo: Madam Speaker, I would like to assure my hon. Colleague that this is an open go. He should engage the local authority which will do its work and immediately submit the report to the ministry.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

_______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE PLANNING AND BUDGETING COMMITTEE

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House adopts the Report of the Planning and Budgeting Committee on Domestic Resource Mobilisation: The Case of Value Added Tax, for the Fourth Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 24^th June, 2025.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mrs Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, in line with the Committee's terms of reference provided for under Order No. 204(4) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, the Committee undertook a study on domestic resource mobilisation, with particular focus on the administration of Value Added Tax (VAT) in Zambia. In conducting the study, the Committee interacted with a wide range of stakeholders, both state and non-state actors. To complete the study, the Committee undertook a local tour of Lusaka Province, Copperbelt Province, and the North-Western Province. The Committee also undertook a benchmarking visit to the Republic of Rwanda.

Madam Speaker, in the last decade, Zambia has experienced fiscal challenges, which have led to high and unsustainable levels of public debt. This has further restricted access to cheap and affordable external financing, thereby, constraining public investment and service delivery.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you may resume your seat.

I am informed that the quorum has collapsed. Please, ring the bells.

Business was suspended from 1145 hours until 1146 hours.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Quorum has now been formed. Hon. Member for Moomba, you may continue.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, Zambia needs to strengthen its domestic resource mobilisation efforts to ensure economic sustainability as over reliance on external borrowing can have adverse effects with declining or changing terms of foreign financing. VAT is one of the key sources of domestic revenue at the disposal of the Government. Its broad-based nature ensures that it captures a wide range of economic activities, thereby, significantly increasing the potential for more tax revenue collection. Evidence also shows that improving the performance of VAT has a positive cascading effect on other tax types because it leaves an audit trail.

Madam Speaker, while VAT continues to contribute, on average, 24 per cent to our domestic revenue, its efficiency in terms of administration is hindered by structural and operational bottlenecks.

Madam Speaker, let me now highlight the Committee's observations and recommendations arising from the study.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members on my left, your voices are too loud.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, VAT refunds remain a longstanding challenge in tax administration, with continued negative impacts on business operations and liquidity. The Committee observed that, as of September 2024, VAT refund claims had accumulated to K55.8 billion, mainly due to legacy VAT refunds and limited budgetary allocations, which have outpaced the submission of claims. From the interactions with stakeholders, the Committee established that the current monthly provision estimated between K2 billion and K2.4 billion is inadequate to clear the backlog and new claims. In this regard, the Committee recommends that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning should centrally clear the outstanding backlog through the national Budget. This will allow current allocations to be directed towards the timely payment of new claims.

Madam Speaker, the Committee further recommends the adoption of a percentage-based model of allocation towards refunds. Under this model, refund payments will be a percentage of gross VAT collections, as opposed to the current fixed monthly allocation of between K2 billion and K2.4 billion per month. This will ensure that resources earmarked for refunds automatically adjust with the growth in revenues.

Madam Speaker, regarding the withholding of VAT by appointed agents, while initially well-intentioned, findings of the study indicate that the mechanism has now become a source of inefficiency, as several withholding agents are not remitting the withheld VAT to the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA).

Madam Speaker, to avoid delays in Budget execution such as non-remittance of withheld Value Added Tax (VAT), the Committee recommends the abolishment of the withholding VAT mechanism across all taxpayer categories.

Madam Speaker, the Committee noted the systems and practices that are in place in Rwanda in the administration of VAT. One example is the existence of the VAT Reward Scheme, which complements the Electronic Invoicing System. The scheme incentivises taxpayers who report non-issuance of electronic invoices. To address the high levels of non-compliance in VAT, your Committee is of the view that Zambia should move away from over focusing on enforcement to incentives as a way of enhancing compliance.

Madam Speaker, your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government should consider introducing the VAT Reward Scheme, which will empower consumers to demand electronic invoices and report non-compliant businesses. This people-driven business approach will foster a culture of compliance across the economy.

As I conclude, Madam Speaker, I wish to extend your Committee’s sincere gratitude to all stakeholders who appeared before it and made submissions. Your Committee also wishes to thank you, Madam Speaker, and the Acting Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support rendered throughout its deliberations.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms Nyirenda: Now, Madam Speaker.

Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me an opportunity, on behalf of the people of Lundazi, to second the Motion on how we can ensure that resource mobilisation is enhanced in our country especially that foreign aid is going down.

Madam Speaker, the chairperson has moved the Motion very well, and I stand here to second it. There are only three aspects, that I am going to talk about or, maybe, add on, which the chairperson did not touch on as he made his presentation.

Madam Speaker, the first issue I want to talk about is the compensation of delayed Value Added Tax (VAT) refunds through interest conversion to Government securities. It is just right that when one delays giving back what belongs to other people, one considers adding interest. Some people are owed VAT refunds as far back as the day Zambia came into being. There is what is called legacy debts or legacy VAT refunds, and companies are failing to operate because these are monies that were given to the revenue authority, and were supposed to be given back. The delay in paying VAT refunds would be justifiable if at all companies are given interest. This is not Hon. Nyirenda's recommendation, but the recommendation that the Committee came up with, after conversing with some of the witnesses.

Madam Speaker, the second issue that I want to talk about is the fragmentation of VAT legislation. The Committee notes that various amendments have been made to the principle VAT legislation and these amendments remain fragmented. In actual fact, when we went out, most companies were complaining that before they could finish implementing a particular piece of legislation, another one was brought before them. They wondered why they could not just have a consolidated one so that they could be able to follow. In any case, today's change or tomorrow is more costly to the people who are doing business out there. So, they asked if it would be possible for the fragmentation of VAT legislation to be consolidated into one piece. Your Committee acknowledges that real-time consolidation of legislation may not be practical. However, it recommends that the Government should consider taking periodic reviews and consolidate key VAT legislation into a comprehensive and coherent Act to improve clarity.

Madam Speaker, the third issue that I want to speak about concerns the integration of the formal sector through co-operatives. When we go on a benchmarking visit, we see some of the good practices. When we come back to the House, we share with the House so that it can be able to pick on some good practices to help our country get to where, everyone can be happy.

Madam Speaker, you sent your Committee to Rwanda and in Rwanda, the Committee learned that small informal businesses that had not yet adopted the Electronic Invoicing System were organised into co-operatives and subjected to a simplified flat tax regime. This approach allows the Rwanda Revenue Authority to broaden the tax base while enabling informal enterprises to gradually integrate into the mainstream formal system.

Madam Speaker, the Committee recommends that the Government should ensure that selected key informal businesses turn into co-operatives on which the presumptive or turnover tax would be applied. Group-based registration and payments would ease administration by reducing the Zambia Revenue Authority’s (ZRA) need to track and engage thousands of small traders individually. This recommendation came after we asked a question on how they were managing the motorbike business, which is a very well organised business in Rwanda. The other question we asked them was if they get any VAT from the motorbike business because there are more than 30,000 motorbikes in Rwanda. They told us that, in actual fact, the riders were more organised in paying taxes than any other people because they are in co-operatives, and it is the duty of the co-operative’s chairperson, who may be managing about hundred people, to make a payment to the Government. Hence, if we used this approach, it could benefit our country.

Madam Speaker, I do not have so much time but, in conclusion, I just want to reiterate the mover’s sentiments that the significance of VAT cannot be overemphasised. The tax type does not only contribute a significant portion to the domestic resource envelope, but it has a positive cascading effect on other types because of the audit trail it leaves.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the chance that you have given me although today is quite a sad day for me. My grandson, who passed on three weeks ago, would have turned one year old today. It is a sad day for Dr Chanda and Captain Kamwendo. I just want to wish them strength and God’s grace as they pass through this trying moment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you. We are sorry for that.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Chilubi, I would like to add my voice to the debate on the Motion currently on the Floor.

Madam Speaker, for starters, we need to realise that the tax called Value Added Tax (VAT) is heavily linked to the supply chain and value addition. The nation has been singing about value addition for a long time. We also need to realise that all things being equal, VAT is a tax that many citizens, or maybe the majority of citizens, pay, including children who buy sweets. They all pay that tax. Alas, VAT suffers from hemorrhage, and its administration and effectiveness still leaves much to be desired. As I indicated earlier on, when we are looking at VAT as a tool for domestic revenue mobilisation, the first question we are supposed to ask is whether our value chains for many raw materials are in order or not, because the tax we are talking about is a consumption-based tax. It is more like an output, and we receive it, meaning that other things would have happened for that tax to be effective.

Madam Speaker, today, we are talking about VAT contributing only 24 per cent to domestic revenue. That in itself should not give us pride, because if there is a broad tax we can talk about, it is VAT, as I indicated earlier. I know, for instance, that the report has indicated that from 2020 to 2024, there was a score of 183 per cent in terms of domestic revenue mobilisation. We also need to realise that VAT collection is not decentralised. Why do I say so? Insofar as we can talk about a policy framework or a regulatory framework, we also need to realise that VAT is still a victim of informality and underreporting. I say so because of rural areas. Currently, rural areas are not actively participating in invoicing and automation because the infrastructure and equipment to enable VAT collection, such as point of sale machines, is not available. If we overlook invoicing and automation, especially in peri-urban and rural areas, let us not even think about improving the VAT collection that we are talking about. As rightly indicated, both services and goods are affected by VAT. I know, for instance, that in tourism, lodges have been asked to pay VAT, though they are playing tricks. However, not all business are captured when it comes to VAT. That means VAT should not just be collected by the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA); it should be collected by a proper clearing house that has a trickle-down effect to the lowest roots for it to be effective. That is the administration we should talk about regarding VAT.

Madam Speaker, further, on behalf of the people of Chilubi, I would like to say that for VAT to be effectively administered, local authorities should be involved. I think, local authorities are well-positioned to house temporary structures for the ZRA to monitor different businesses, be it formal or informal, in districts. I have already pointed out that invoicing, automation, collecting and capturing the right figures regarding VAT are missing.

Madam Speaker, I do not want to overemphasise the interaction between value addition and supply chains. There is a particular relationship that we need to harness for us to put a premium on VAT and get the desired result from it. At the moment, things are disjointed because of the way we conduct business, and I will give an example. I do not want to create controversy, but the mushrooming of gold mines all over the country is not well co-ordinated. Those mines are churning out wealth that VAT can capture. Which markets does the gold go to? Where is it being sold? The Government’s participation is not clear, and the collection of VAT is not clear as well because those gold mines are not monitored. There are many small-scale miners mining emeralds and many other minerals, but those things are not properly monitored. It means that there is hemorrhaging of public revenue that I referred to earlier on, and it is a serious concern. It also means that domestic revenue from VAT can even rise beyond 24 per cent, if we factor in all these things.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Chilubi, I would like to support the report. Let us reflect properly on value addition and supply chains so that we get the desired result from VAT.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I would like to appreciate Hon. Fred Chaatila and Hon. Nyirenda for moving and seconding the Motion.

Madam Speaker, the Planning and Budgeting Committee explored the subject of domestic resource mobilisation and narrowed down its question to Value Added Tax (VAT). Everyone is aware that VAT negatively affects poor people more than rich people. So, it is an important subject to deliberate on.

Madam Speaker, listen to what your Committee says in the conclusion of its report:

“Your Committee observes that, while Zambia has made considerable progress in developing a robust VAT framework, several systemic and operational challenges persist.”

Madam Speaker, there are operational and systemic challenges that persist. Systemic challenges means that there are inherent, bloodstream challenges that exist in that particular situation. Apart from that, there are operational issues. Let us consider the routine malfunctioning of the system, downtimes, uptimes and the effect of load-shedding on the operations of the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). All those are serious problems. As a matter of fact, your Committee has listed a number of organisations owed VAT refunds. The Zambian Government owes various suppliers in the country K55 billion in VAT refunds.

Madam Speaker, your Committee said that VAT is a narrow tax base and that there are low compliance levels. We know who does not comply. It is not consumers because they pay VAT at the point of purchase. We know who does not comply; it is the same people who are owed K55 billion.

Madam Speaker, we also have a fragmented legal framework and limited taxpayer engagement. That is what your Committee said. Now, these problems will immediately tell one that even though the Committee has said that the Government has made progress, we still have serious problems. If we have problems with a formalised system, such as the VAT system, as noted by the Committee, where, then, are we going to do well? The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning brought Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure to this House, meaning that the over K20 billion that we gave the Ministry of Finance and National Planning is insufficient. The ministry has to find more money to fund Government operations. Where can we find extra resources without burdening the already burdened taxpayers? That is why I would like to bring the Committee and the hon. Minister’s attention back to the easy problems. Can we be concerned about the revenue derived from the export of maize. The companies that were given maize and stole the money should be taken to task so that they pay back the Government, which is having problems with the VAT and the Budget. That is why today, we are considering the Supplementary Budget.

Madam Speaker, where is the money that should come to the country as a result of the export of electricity going? That money should be accounted for properly so that it can plug those difficulties. As we navigate this situation, we have to ensure that easy transactions bear fruit. Is the money from the export of electricity benefiting the country? These are questions that should be answered.

Madam Speaker, we have foregone a lot of revenue. Remember the sugilite that was stolen? Easy revenue for the Government. While we continue with the difficulties in the VAT system, we could have collected money from the stolen lithium. Do you remember the lithium that was declared as sand at the border in Livingstone? If that lithium was properly sold, the Government would not be asking for the approval of a Supplementary Budget.

Madam Speaker, on stolen gold, …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya: … some of the gold is traded even at the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA) –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

There is an indication for a point of order by the hon. Minister of Information and Media.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, I have been listening to many debaters. I am raising a point of order on the hon. Member on the Floor, and it is premised on the practice and precedence of this House. When we were in the Opposition, and there was a by-election and the Patriotic Front (PF), as the Ruling Party, won, we would not debate without commending the mighty Ruling Party.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member, who has been absent from this House for a long time without leave to an unknown place, in order to continue to debate without commending the United Party for National Development (UPND) for winning the Lumezi Constituency by-election when he knows the culture of this House in keeping with our democratic tenets?

Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think, the hon. Minister was not in the House when the hon. Members on my left were congratulating the –

Hon. UPND Members: Him!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Yes. I am sure that has already been done. There is no provision in our Standing Orders that provides for what the hon. Minister wants the hon. Member for Lunte to mention on the Floor of the House. I am sure it was on a lighter note.

Hon. Member for Lunte, you may continue.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister may not be mourning. For us, we are mourning. That is why we were absent in –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, some of the gold is being stolen through the Presidential Pavilion at KKIA. Now, if one considers what those stolen natural resources can do for our country when we are having difficulties with the VAT system, one immediately thinks that a Government, like the UPND Government, which is in serious trouble right now surviving on borrowed funds and also seeking approval to borrow more through Supplementary Budgets, …

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: … then, there should be serious intentions to ensure that it strengthens governance systems to avoid theft or pilferage of natural resources.

Madam Speaker, I stood on this Floor not too long ago and complained that a truck carrying fresh mukula overturned on Chirundu Road. The person who had been illegally exporting that mukula should be known by the UPND. If, indeed, we have problems with the VAT system, we should not have problems with physical things like somebody transporting mukula. How can a Government just ignore that as if there is no problem, and let mukula be transported and overturned?

Madam Speaker –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I think, the scenario was not like that. Please, let us try to stick to the contents of the report. The report is on the Value Added Tax (VAT).

Mr Kafwaya: Yes!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Not about the mukula, which was – I do not know what happened to that.

Please, let us stick to this report’s contents so that the people of Zambia can learn something from you.

You may continue.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, on domestic resource mobilisation, giving away a mine for nothing, the way the UPND gave away Mopani Copper Mines PLC, …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Kafwaya: … plugs domestic resource mobilisation. That mine, to which it gave away 51 per cent shares, should be making contributions. Where VAT is failing, revenue from the mine should be plugged in. Giving away the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway for over twenty years is irresponsible of a country that is struggling with domestic resource mobilisation. You need to ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, for me, how much money we lost to a concessionaire who did not build the toll gates? How much money –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, just debate. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will be given an opportunity to respond …

Mr Kafwaya: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … to all the issues that will be raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Hon. Minister, as you respond, tell us how much money we have lost through the toll gates that have gone to the concessionaire who did not build the toll gates and the road that is in use right now. It is important.

Madam Speaker, that money can help to plug the deficiencies, and the hon. Minister would not come to the House to ask for approval for Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure. Money is just going through mukula, gold and lithium. Public roads are now taking away the money too. It is irresponsible. I would like to ask the UPND to reconsider its position in the manner it is mismanaging natural resources, including resources that have already been built like roads, so that the Zambian people can benefit a hundred per cent from their investment.

Madam Speaker, I wish to support the Motion to adopt the Committee report of my friend, Hon. Chaatila.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to add a voice to the debate on the Motion to adopt the report ably moved by Hon. Chaatila and seconded by the hon. Member for Lundazi.

Madam Speaker, the matter under discussion, which is domestic revenue mobilisation, is very important as it enables the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to attend to many need areas that require resources. I know that the hon. Minister has come to the House with Supplementary Estimates of Expenditure, which we shall be looking at in a few days after the report is presented. Value Added Tax (VAT) will only make sense when we have a robust value chain tied to our natural capital. The sectors in which we need to make this tax measure relevant are well-known.

Madam Speaker, in the mining sector, at what point are we, as Zambians, going to maximise the natural capital, which is the assets, by ensuring that as we explore the various mineral deposits, we add value to them so that they are beneficial to us, and that the tax reimbursement which we say is narrow, as reported by your Committee, is broadened?

Madam Speaker, many reports of the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) are pointing to leakages that the people who are in the mining sector are not sincere by not declaring what they are exploring and exporting in huge numbers. In the meantime, we have a huge figure of unpaid arrears of VAT refunds. Where are we missing it?

Madam Speaker, people are exploring gold and other minerals in many areas currently. The hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development is yet to come up with control measures and policies that will ensure that we add value to the natural capital that is being eexplored so that it is meaningful. My colleagues mentioned unfortunate instances where we have seen aeroplanes landing with gold and millions of Dollars. This is happening in a country where systems are functional. Now, how do we realise this VAT if a few people can transact in that fashion? This is a concern.

Currently, the people in Shiwang’andu, Mpika and Mufumbwe are mining. They are not only exploring the gold, but also polluting the environment. So, the resources that should go to environmental management from this VAT are not realised.

Madam Speaker, where I come from, they say, “Umulembwe wa chipuba, upwila muli tumfwe”. This means that the okra prepared by a foolish person gets finished by everybody tasting it before the main meal is prepared. This is what we are dealing with here. Hon. Members should go to those areas and they will find that it is the foreigners from neighbouring countries who are mining the minerals. They are the ones who have the equipment to mine and leave the country. No VAT is left in the country. We are only left with more trenches which will be difficult to manage.

Madam Speaker, the big mining corporations have been cited several times for not being sincere in their transactions. Inside trading has been one of the issues. We used to have the Metal Fabricators of Zambia Plc (ZAMEFA), which added value to copper by making products such as electric cables. Now, we are importing cables from China, which is made out of the copper that we are mining here.

Madam Speaker, VAT will only start making sense when we, as a people, maximise the usage of the natural God given capital. We cannot rely on the multi-sectoral companies coming to explore our minerals and take off. We shall remain the same and I can agree with Her Honour the Vice-President, who said that the United Party for National Development (UPND) can be voted out, but the poverty will remain. However, I disagree with her because the Government must start putting measures in place to ensure that we utilise VAT because those who are negatively affect are small businesses. The big businesses that cheat by not being sincere with transactions get their refunds timeously. Small businesses are the ones that struggle to get their funds. So, if the system is functional, refunds should not accumulate to the huge figures stated in the report. Transactions are preformed when people pay. Now, how do we accrue arrears? It means that the system is malfunctioning, as my colleague, Hon. Kafwaya, said. We shall support the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning when he comes to the House with measures to ensure that all those exploring our national capital, be it small or big, are dealt with, and that natural capital comes back value chain.

Madam Speaker, in agriculture, why should we export maize when we can grind the maize and export mealie meal? By grinding the maize, we would have added value, and we would get VAT from that product. When we export maize, which is also subsidised by the hon. Minister of Agriculture, we are just moving the same subsidy to the other consumers, whilst Zambians are buying mealie meal at very high prices. We need to start being accountable for our God given natural capital. Otherwise, it will come back to the saying, “Umulembwe wa chipuba, upwila muli tumfwe”

Madam Speaker, in the House, we shall be dealing with a Supplementary Budget because the hon. Minister needs money all the time. He will budget, but if he does not mobilise funds from these sectors, he will come to the House with a Supplementary Budget. We already have one that is being brought and there could be another one to follow. So, I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to do the right thing at the right time. We must not be smiling at those investors who are not sincere. Let us address those financial flaws, which are highlighted in the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) report, every year. That is where the challenge is.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, let me start by appreciating the report of the Committee. Hon. Members of the Committee were very diligent in choosing this topic, which is very important for the country at this point in time.

Madam Speaker, the question is: How do we mobilise domestic resources against the background of dwindling foreign assistance? The answer is that we must mobilise our own resources, and I think this exercise or report contributes to possible answers on how we can do that.

Madam Speaker, I have taken note of the Committee’s valuable observations and recommendations, particularly, recommendations on the mechanisms we can explore to address the legacy of the Value Added Tax (VAT) refunds arrears and keep pace with the claims. I will study this report thoroughly and examples will be given.

Madam Speaker, the Government has not sat back, but there are specific initiatives that it has taken. So, let me take this opportunity to highlight some of the initiatives.

Implementation of the VAT Smart Invoice System

Madam Speaker, effective 1^st January, 2025, input tax claims are restricted to invoices issued from smart invoices. In the past, there was quite a significant amount of VAT fraud. People were making claims knowing very well that the manual system of trying to verify whether, in fact, they were supposed to be refunded was tedious, with so many transactions taking place. With the computerisation that is taking place now under the smart voice, that problem will be solved.

Additionally, the smart invoice will work in such a way that, as one makes transactions, not only will it take records of the VAT transactions, but it will also indicate when Mr X made the transactions, how many times and how much was involved. This system will enable us to know, beyond VAT, how much income Mr X is actually making. We will see on the VAT claims, the number of transactions he makes, and this will show if the amount of money he makes is more than what he is claiming in the accounts books, because we will see how much money he has been spending. So, this system is going to enable the officers at the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) to tell Mr X that “by the way, we do not just have VAT issues with you, but we think that the amount of income that you claim to have is under rated because we saw you spend so much on this day and so much the other day so, you have been deceiving the public system.” So, this system is up and, very soon, we will see the benefit of this. This is an innovation that came under the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government because under the previous Administration, this innovation was not there. So, this is a specific action that this Government is taking.

Madam Speaker, let me also respond briefly to some of the issues that have been raised on the Floor, in the debates. One of the questions asked is: Why is there a big chunk of un-refunded VAT? The answer to that, is that the biggest chunk of VAT arrears is in the mining sector. If you look at the VAT owed today, roughly between 70 per cent or 80 per cent of that is from the mining sector. Why did that happen? It happened because during the time of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, they were not paying VAT refunds for a period of more than five years. The PF Government was not paying VAT refunds to the mining sector. This is something that is known.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: So, the amount was so huge that even today, 70 per cent to 80 per cent of what is owed is the debt that they left behind. This is what we are struggling to pay today, and it is the UPND Government that is clearing that amount of money. This money that they did not pay when they were holding back, ideally, should have been put in a separate account so that as and when claims came, they use it to pay off the claims. However, instead of putting the money that they were holding in a separate account, it was being consumed by the PF Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: So, the VAT problem that we are talking about is the creation of the PF Government.

Madam Speaker, further, you will recall that under the PF Government, they closed the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and Mopani Copper Mines. So, how did they ever think that when they close a mine, then, they would be able to collect more taxes? From what?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, as they closed these mines, what they did not know is that when you close a mine, you also close the tax receipts coming through. So, these are the problems that we are now solving. As we solve them and as Mopani Copper Mines, KCM and new mines in Katumba open, there will be more tax revenue coming through. It is just amazing how anyone could ever think that by closing the mines then, you are generating prosperity in the country. What kind of thinking is this?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, as they closed the mines, the only beneficiaries out of the closure of the mines were the PF members.

Mr Amutike: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: When you close a mine, jobs are lost, so even Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) is gone. So, they were so happy to close the mines and as you can remember, one of the things that happened is that –

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

We are behind time. We just want to close this Motion so that we move to the next one.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Musokotwane: Under pressure now, you will recall that some of the PF members who were now in the process of winding down the company, were the ones benefitting. One of them, you will recall – it was in the media.

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam.

Hon. PF Members interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

My request is that we have very little time remaining.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo interjected while standing.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

I heard the hon. Minister mentioning PF members, but what I do not know is whether he meant the PF members in this House or those outside.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, resume your seat.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, please, summarise your debate but bear in mind that we do not debate ourselves.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, it is on record that some of these people went to the Government and said “this money that we got unjustifiably from the mining sector, here is the money. We are paying back.” That is on record.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, as I conclude, we acknowledge the problems and the fact is that we need to collect more. I also want to say that yes, there is supplementary coming, part of that is because there is a bit of revenue down there. However, we have this supplementary because of the huge debt that these hon. Colleagues left behind. In spite of the restructuring, the debts need to be paid. So, I will be able to debate this and demonstrate that in fact, the cause of this supplementary are the hon. Colleagues who are seated there.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, I can only thank the hon. Members of the Committee for the work it did to come up with this report. I also acknowledge the debates from Hon. Fube, Hon. Kafwaya and Hon. Kampyongo. I also thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the responses and the assurances given, of what the ministry is doing to resolve these challenges.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the point of order on the hon. Member for Moomba?

Mr Kafwaya: The Motion is still on the Floor. My point of order is on the hon. Minister who was speaking before the hon. Member.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think, that will take us back. We are almost winding up.

Mr Kafwaya: No, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT, WORKS AND SUPPLY ON THE REVIEW OF RAILWAY TRANSPORT IN ZAMBIA

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House adopts the Report of the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply on the Review of Railway Transport in Zambia for the Fourth Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 24^th June, 2025.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): I beg to second the Motion, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, in line with its terms of reference, your Committee considered the topical issue: The Review of Railway Transport in Zambia. In carrying out this important task, your Committee sought both written and oral submissions from various stakeholders.

Madam Speaker, allow me to comment on some of the salient matters arising from your Committee’s engagements with various stakeholders on the topical issue and its findings from the local tour.

Madam Speaker, permit me to start by stating that the railway sector in Zambia has vast potential to support national development through the efficient movement of goods and passengers. However, your Committee’s findings paint a very distressing picture resulting from many years of neglect and under-investment, leading to the disintegration of a strategic sub-sector. Your Committee is of the view that if urgent measures are not taken, Zambia risks completely losing a critical mode of transportation due to deterioration and dangerous disuse.

Madam Speaker, one of the key issues affecting the revitalisation of the railway sector is that the Railways Act, Chapter 453 of the Laws of Zambia, has not been reviewed for over three decades. Your Committee knows that this out-dated piece of legislation has failed to address modern safety and operational and investment standards required to support a competitive railway system in the 21^st Century. In this regard, your Committee strongly recommends that the Government urgently undertakes a comprehensive review of the Railways Act to align it with contemporary needs, including private sector participation, safety enforcement and infrastructure protection.

Madam Speaker, another matter that your Committee deliberated on was encroachment. Your Committee observed with alarm the rampant encroachment on railway land reserves, particularly in places such as Choma, where traders operate on active railway tracks. This has created a serious risk for commuters and operations. Alongside this, there is widespread theft and vandalism of railway infrastructure, including signal equipment and track materials. In light of this, your Committee recommends that the legal framework be amended to impose strict penalties for encroachment and vandalism, including a mandatory minimum sentence of ten years for offenders. The Government should also tighten the regulations governing the sale of scrap metal to curb the market for stolen railway components.

Madam Speaker, your Committee observed that the Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL) is burdened by a 15 per cent fuel levy on every single litre of fuel purchased for operations. The fuel levy, estimated at over K40 million in 2025, is channelled towards road infrastructure, which does not benefit the railway sector. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the fuel levy be waived or the funds collected be redirected to the railway sector. The revenue could be used for rehabilitation of the tracks, acquisition of locomotives and modernisation of the ZRL infrastructure to make railway transport competitive again.

Finally, Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that your Committee toured the Livingstone/Mulobezi Railway Line and found it in an extremely dilapidated state. The railway line, which is a lifeline for the people in the area, has missing tracks, misaligned rails and is in a dangerous condition. A journey that should take a few hours now takes several days, putting passengers and animals at risk. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Government prioritises the immediate rehabilitation of the Livingstone/Mulobezi Railway Line. This will definitely restore safety, enhance economic opportunity and bring relief to the communities that have relied on that service for decades.

As I conclude, Madam Speaker, allow me to tender my sincere gratitude to you and to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia for the services rendered to your Committee throughout its deliberations. Gratitude is also extended to all stakeholders who provided your Committee with valuable information, which formed the basis of the report before the House today.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Charles Mulenga: Now, Madam Speaker.

However, looking at the time, I can proceed at your discretion.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may proceed, hon. Member for Kwacha.

Mr Charles Mulenga: Madam Speaker, in seconding the Motion, allow me to begin by highlighting your Committee’s strong view on the need to leverage the public-private partnership (PPP) arrangement, which is a new model of financing. The model has worked well in many countries, including Zambia. The results are there for all to see, especially on roads. Your Committee observed that while PPPs are a proven model for financing large-scale railway infrastructure such as railway corridors and modernisation of the Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL), Zambia has not fully embraced the opportunity. It is our strong view that the country should start looking at this financing model seriously. The under-utilisation of the PPP model has limited both investment and innovation in the railway sector and has left the financial burden squarely on the Government. The previous Government sourced funds through Eurobonds and part of the funds were channelled towards the railway sector, but no significant improvement to railway infrastructure can be seen. Therefore, your Committee recommends that the Government should adopt and promote the PPP model for railway infrastructure development. This can be effectively done in many ways, but I will simply restrict myself to two areas, which are establishing a transparent regulatory framework and introducing investment incentives to attract private sector participation. If these measures are put in place, the Committee believes that the country can secure the much-needed funding and ensure efficient implementation of critical railway projects.

Madam Speaker, the Committee undertook a ten-day tour to parts of Copperbelt Province, Central Province and the Southern Province. The Committee witnessed chronic underfunding of the railway sector. It was clear to all of us. It was quite sad to witness the state of the railway infrastructure that is currently in place. The Committee notes that a lack of adequate financial resources has significantly hindered, among other areas, infrastructure upgrades, adoption of modern technologies and capacity expansion efforts. To address this, the Committee strongly recommends the establishment of a dedicated railway development fund. That can be done through a collection of revenue from railway users, appropriation from Parliament, and also be governed by a clear accountability mechanism to ensure efficient resource allocation and effective use. Such a fund would ensure sustained development and revitalisation of Zambia's railway infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, the Committee is deeply concerned about the high rate of theft and vandalism affecting railway infrastructure. The chairperson partly looked at that point. We would like that to be taken care of, especially in poorly monitored areas. The Committee also noted that there is insufficient collaboration among Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL), the Zambia Police Service and the local authorities in safeguarding the national assets. In some cases, local authorities have leased or allocated railway land without the knowledge or consent of the ZRL, leading to encroachment and operational disruptions. We witnessed rampant encroachment, especially when we toured Luanshya, where, to our surprise, we found that the entire land belonging to the ZRL has actually been encroached on. Housing units have been built along the entire stretch. So, there is a need to harmonise that aspect to ensure that the ZRL does not lose its land in other areas. To address these issues, the Committee recommends the formalisation of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) between the three institutions, namely the ZRL, the Zambia Police Service and the local authorities. The MoUs should promote joint efforts to combat theft and vandalism.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, we also want to put on record that there should be mechanisms to ensure consultation before leasing ZRL land and also facilitation of patrols along high-risk sections of the railway line. Once these measures are put in place, …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Charles Mulenga: … we shall see a tremendous reduction or complete eradication –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Are you finishing your sentence?

Mr Charles Mulenga: I am almost concluding, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Just in two seconds, please.

Mr Charles Mulenga: Madam Speaker, once those measures are put in place, we shall see a tremendous reduction or complete eradication of the vices highlighted.

With those few words, Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1256 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 1^st July, 2025

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Friday, 27th June, 2025

Madam Speaker, to avoid delays in Budget execution such as non-remittance of withheld Value Added Tax (VAT), the Committee recommends the abolishment of the withholding VAT mechanism across all taxpayer categories.

Order Paper

parliament.gov.zm

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Friday, 27th June, 2025

Madam Speaker, to avoid delays in Budget execution such as non-remittance of withheld Value Added Tax (VAT), the Committee recommends the abolishment of the withholding VAT mechanism across all taxpayer categories.

Order Paper

parliament.gov.zm