Thursday, 27^th March, 2025

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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No Quorum

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM HIGHER ACHIEVERS PRIVATE SCHOOL

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils and teachers from High Achievers Private School in Monze District.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM ST. IGNATIUS COLLEGE

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence, in the Public Gallery, of pupils and teachers from St. Ignatius College in Lusaka District.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mwana mayadi!

OFFICIAL LAUNCH OF THE CRÈCHE AND THE LAYING OF THE FOUNDATION STONE

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the official launch of the crèche and the laying of the foundation stone by the Hon. Madam Speaker, took place today, 27^th March, 2025, at Parliament Buildings. During the ceremony, the hon. Member for Lunte, Mr Mutotowe Kafwaya, MP, pledged K20,000 worth of blocks towards the construction of the crèche as a token of appreciation for this commendable initiative.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS 27 AND 123

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity. With your permission, I also want to welcome my voters from Monze Central Constituency.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 27 and 123 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, be suspended to enable the House to complete all Business on the Order Paper and all matters arising there from and also to consider more than one stage of a Bill on Friday, 28^th March, 2025, and on such completion, the House adjourns sine die.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, before I proceed to move the Motion, I just want to appreciate the women hon. Members of Parliament who are …

Mrs Masebo: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: ... all wearing black today. I am made to understand that the black attire they are wearing is meant to send a message to me and my colleagues that the proportional representation they are demanding ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: … should be passed by this House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: They want more representation of women. That is why they are wearing black. So, they are sending a message to the nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Minister, may you continue.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Madam Speaker, Standing Order 27 provides for the automatic time of adjournment at 1300 hours on Fridays, while Standing Order 123 prohibits the consideration of more than one stage of the Bill at the same Sitting.

Madam Speaker, considering the volume of the outstanding business before the House, and the stages at which some Bills are, it is necessary to suspend the aforementioned Standing Orders so that all business on the Order Paper for Friday, 28^th March, 2025, is completed, including consideration of more than one stage of a Bill, and thereafter, adjourn sine die.

Madam Speaker, the current Meeting commenced on Tuesday, 11^th February, 2025, and by the time of adjournment tomorrow, the House would have sat for twenty-six days and would have considered about 108 Questions for Oral Answer and three Private Members’ Motions. In addition, six annual reports from the Government and quasi-government departments would have been tabled, while thirty-one Ministerial Statements, explaining and clarifying the Government’s policies on various issues, would have been presented to the House and four Bills would have been considered. Hon. Members will recall that after the President’s Special Address to the House on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles on 28^th February, 2025, the House debated the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Address from 4^th to 21^st March, 2025.

Madam Speaker, it is clear from the above statistics that although the House sat for a relatively short period, the volume of business transacted is large. This can only be attributed to the commitment, dedication and hard work of all hon. Members of this august House. I, therefore, wish to commend all hon. Members for the job well done.

Madam Speaker, as we adjourn sine die, I wish to urge all hon. Members to take time to visit their constituencies and assess the situation on the ground with regard to the recent floods that have devastated some areas, displacing many people and causing significant damage to infrastructure. In the same vein, there are places which received inadequate rainfall, thereby affecting availability of water and growth of crops, especially food crops. In this regard, I urge all hon. Members to report their findings to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), which falls under the Office of the Vice-President, for possible assistance.

Madam Speaker, allow me to reiterate the Government’s commitment to a transparent and inclusive constitution review process. I wish to state that while some sections of society have raised concerns about the timing of this process, our priority is to ensure that we have in place a legal framework that strengthens representation, governance and national unity, especially the representation of women and youths.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: I, therefore, encourage all hon. Members, as they return to their constituencies, to engage the people that they represent and gather their views to ensure that all their voices are heard in this pivotal process.

Madam Speaker, having said that, allow me to thank you, the Hon. First Deputy Speaker and the Hon. Second Deputy Speaker for the able manner in which you presided over the Business of the House throughout the Meeting.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: I also wish to extend my sincere gratitude to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and his staff and staff in the Office of the Vice-President, Parliamentary Business, National Guidance and Religious Affairs Division and officers from various Government ministries and departments for the services rendered to make the Meeting a resounding success.

Madam Speaker, this is a procedural Motion and I urge all hon. Members to support it.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, this is a procedural Motion.

Interruptions

Mr Kalobo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your point of order, hon. Member for Wusakile?

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. He has just informed the nation, through this august House, that our women Parliamentarians, who are dressed in black today, are sending a message to us that they are in support of proportional representation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Charles Mulenga: Are you a woman?

Ms Mulenga: Is he a woman?

Ms Nyirenda: Let the women speak for themselves.

Mr Charles Mulenga: That is misleading.

Mr Kalobo: Number one, is he a woman? Number two, –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Ms Nyirenda: Do we not have mouths for him to speak on our behalf?

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, number one, is he a woman to speak for them when they have mouths to speak? Number two, is he in order to mislead himself, this august House and the nation? He knows that the regalia the women are wearing is as a result of the launch of the crèche for women Parliamentarians with small children –

Hon. Members: Question! 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kalobo: Is the hon. Minister in order to mislead himself and the nation?

Madam Speaker, you were also there and you know about the programme of the launch of the crèche. Today was a very important –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you may resume your seat.

Interruptions

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance and protection.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may resume your seat.

Mr B. Mpundu: Tala pwisha.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: When you are raising a point of order –

Mr Kalobo remained standing.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Mr Kalobo resumed his seat.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, when you are raising a point of order, you are supposed to make it brief and precise. However, you debated your point of order; you even brought me into it.

Mr Kalobo interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Your point of order is –

Mr Kalobo interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, can you, please, leave the House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalobo left the Assembly Chamber.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chitambo may proceed.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, I am grateful to you for giving me the opportunity to debate this procedural Motion today. That is a rare moment in this House, so I will use it for the advantage of all hon. Members.

Madam Speaker, indeed, like the mover of the Motion said, this is a non-controversial Motion. It is a procedural Motion, so we must all agree with it. In agreeing with this Motion, I would like to stress some points that are very important, as we adjourn sin die. Firstly, I appeal to the Executive to utilise the Legislative Meeting well. Bringing Bills at the end of a Meeting brings a lot of stress to hon. Members. That is how we end up passing laws that we regrettably bring back for amendments. As a result, people out there start saying that hon. Members of Parliament do not read. It is my appeal to the Executive to time the Bills in future by introducing them when hon. Members have ample time to study and agree with the provisions in the Bills in honesty rather than rushing them. You can imagine that tomorrow, we shall pass Bills. Some Bills will be considered at more than one stage, and because hon. Members will be tired, they will only be saying “Hear, hear!”, to everything. The Executive should work extra hard to ensure that Bills are presented to this House on time.

Madam Speaker, we have another huge burden on our heads. Yesterday, the hon. Minister of Justice brought matters, which are important to the people of Zambia and this House; amendments to the Constitution. The hon. Minister told us to consult our people. That is not an easy task. Hon. Members would need assistance from the Executive to carry out proper consultations. They need assistance just like any other person who is given such a task as to consult and bring feedback on what the people would have said. It goes without saying that akabomba nakabiye kamuunda, meaning that for us to do a diligent job and come up with good results, we need to be assisted with logistics.

 Madam Speaker, the last point is what the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House touched on. Many constituencies have been affected by floods and people have been moved or have drifted. It is unfortunate that we only have one section of the Government that looks at the whole country, and I believe that the section is overwhelmed. When such information, as relating to floods, is received, I appeal to the Government to act on it promptly. I know that there is a component in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which deals with disasters but imagine a situation in which an area in Chitambo has about ten houses whose roofs are blown off. The Government should increase the monetary allocation for disaster management.

Madam Speaker, I know that soon, the Kuomboka Ceremony will be held.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, you should include hon. Members in your entourage so that we show the “One Zambia, One Nation” motto.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: I will also attend the Kuomboka Ceremony to see what happens there.

Mr Amutike: I will give you free accommodation!

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I would want accommodation from the hon. Member Mwandi.

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu: Iris!

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, with those few words, I support the Motion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika, on whom are you raising the point of order?

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security pursuant to Standing Order No. 71.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has just informed this House and the nation that his Government is about to overhaul Zambia’s electoral system into proportional representation, like the system in South Africa in which citizens do not directly elect Members of Parliament, but use the party list system.

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, that is the correct definition of proportional representation. It is an overhaul of the electoral system from first-past-the-post –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Are you debating your point of order, hon. Member?

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to veer off the statement that was given by the hon. Minister of Justice and inform the nation that this Government is in the process of overhauling the electoral system into proportional representation; a system in which citizens will not have the power to elect hon. Members, and only a few political parties in Lusaka will be electing hon. Members of Parliament?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mpika, you are out of order. Those words did not come from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security. Let us not create other scenarios out of a simple Motion that was moved by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

We make progress.

Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, wind up debate.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to wind up the debate on the Motion I moved.

Madam Speaker, I would like to respond to an important issue that was raised by the hon. Member for Chitambo. The hon. Member mentioned a lack of support pertaining to disasters in various localities. I would like to inform the House that His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, due to his foresight and consideration, did not lift the declaration of the national disaster. We are still in a state of disaster. Through the same state, the Government can mobilise resources in the same way we have been doing during the state of national disaster wherein no Zambian died from hunger. Through the declaration, we will ensure that we take into account the damage to infrastructure in various localities, as we have stated before. Hon. Members should inform us of the disasters in their jurisdictions. We will find solutions together.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank all the hon. Members for the support they have given.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Mr Twasa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, we have concluded debate on that item.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

THE FINANCIAL VIABILITY OF KONKOLA COPPER MINES AND MOPANI COPPER MINES PLC

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to present a Ministerial Statement on the financial viability of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and Mopani Copper Mines Plc.

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, the Government, through the Zambia Consolidated Copper MinesInvestments Holdings Plc (ZCCM-IH), brought a strategic equity partner on board, namely International Resources Holding (IRH), into Mopani Copper Mines in 2024 to inject capital and stabilise the operations of the mine.

Similarly, in 2024, ZCCM-IH brought on board Vedanta Resources Limited in order to revamp operations and continue the development of KCM to ensure its sustainability. In the case of Mopani Copper Mines, among the key issues agreed upon in the agreement –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Can we, please, lower our voices. We want to listen to the Ministerial Statement.

Hon.  Minister, you may continue.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, in the case of Mopani Copper Mines, among the key issues agreed upon in the agreement between the International Resources Holding (IRH), and the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines-Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) include a total investment of US$1.1 billion, of which US$220 million was for dismantling of arrears for suppliers and contractors. As for KCM, the agreement between the two parties, namely ZCCM-IH and Vedanta Resources Limited, among others, involved US$1 billion in investments and an additional US$250 million for the dismantling of arrears to suppliers and contractors through a scheme of arrangement. Following these agreements, there have been developments at both Mopani Copper Mines and KCM regarding operations, investments and payments to suppliers and contractors of goods and services, and other areas in line with the agreements.

Madam Speaker, to date, Mopani Copper Mines has injected capital investments as follows:

1. cleared legacy debt owed to Glencore amounting to US$400 million and outstanding dues amounting to US$220 million to all contractors, including Kitwe and Mufulira councils;
2. funded a two-yearly major smelter shutdown amounting to US$30 million; and
3. funded oxygen plant breakdown from 21^st November, 2024, to 20^th March, 2025, amounting to US$130 million.

Madam Speaker, in addition, IRH has disbursed US$50 million as at March 2025 as part of the pledged investment amount towards operations of Mopani Copper Mines.  This amount is currently sitting in the local bank account.  Out of the US$1.1 billion, which they are supposed to invest, so far, they have done US$830 million from the time IRH took over the mine.

Madam Speaker, Mopani Copper Mines has increased its ore production by 14 per cent. In terms of copper content, it has increased its production by 23 per cent.  In addition, it has increased the smelting of copper concentrate by more than 100 per cent. Furthermore, it has enlisted local suppliers and contractors from the previous 2,345 to 4,888 in 2025, an increase of more than 100 per cent.  Foreign suppliers and contractors increased from 1,083 to 1,199, an increase of 11 per cent. In terms of employment, Mopani Copper Mines has increased the number of direct jobs for local people from 5,752 in 2024, to 6,641 in 2025, representing a 15 per cent increase. The contractor employees have increased from 5,226 to 6,029, representing a 15 per cent increase.

 Madam Speaker as of February 2025, Mopani Copper Mines has cleared supplier payments as follows:

1. labour service contractors involving forty suppliers at a total cost of US$788,000;
2. small suppliers with balances below US$10,000 involving 135 companies at a total cost of US$621,141;
3. suppliers with balances between US$10,000 to US$50,000 involving seventy-nine companies at a total cost of US$1,739,000; and
4. suppliers with balances above US$50,000 involving fifty-eight companies at a total cost of US$7,767,000.

 These accounts are currently overdue by more than forty-five days and Mopani Copper Mines has put in place a plan to progressively clear the payments by the end of April 2025.

Madam Speaker, over recent months, Mopani Copper Mines has faced challenges, which have exacerbated delays in meeting the obligation to suppliers and contractors. The operational challenges encountered have impacted payment schedules. These challenges have also contributed to the financial strain it has faced over the past several months. The challenges are as follows:

Planned Two-Year Smelter Shut Down

A fifty-seven-day smelter shutdown from 17^th June to 19^th August, 2024, significantly impacting Mopani Copper Mines’ revenue generation and during this period, IRH provided US$30 million to sustain operations.

Unplanned Smelter Shutdown

Madam Speaker, shortly after the smelter is reinstated, an unexpected oxygen plant failure on 21^st November, 2024, forced a three-months shutdown lasting until 20^th February, 2025. The prolonged stoppage severely curtailed copper production and revenue generation. Again, IRH came in to support Mopani Copper Mines with US$100 million during that period

Impact of Power Restrictions

The operational difficulties were compounded by power restrictions imposed between 17^th September and 8^th October, 2024, which further disrupted production activities.

 Madam Speaker, as for KCM, which was officially handed over to Vedanta Resources Limited in August 2024, it resumed full operations across all four business units, namely Konkola, Nampundwe, Nkana and Nchanga with a combined average production of 5,500 metric tonnes per month. I want to emphasise this point that when KCM is at par or normal, it is supposed to produce in excess of 20,000 to 25,000 metric tonnes per month. It now went down to 5,000 metric tonnes per month, which meant that there was a serious loss of revenue and activity on the mine and that is why we saw that depression on the Copperbelt. However, as of December 2024 to date, the average production has increased to 8,200 metric tonnes per month, signifying steady progress. To date, KCM has allocated US$50 million for asset improvement, with an additional US$74 million planned for injection in July 2025. Furthermore, US$206 million is earmarked for investment by the end of 2025 in line with the implementation agreement and KCM strategic goals.

Madam Speaker, in addition, KCM has established the Konkola Deep Mining Project (KDMP) team, predominantly composed of Zambians, to oversee the project’s implementation. So far, significant progress has been made, that included sinking of the shaft.

Madam Speaker, since resuming operations in August 2024, KCM has maintained its 12,500 workforce of employees. Additionally, it has recruited fifty-three management trainees who have since been offered permanent positions. As of March 2025, a total of 2,495 are registered vendors at KCM, of which 512 are foreign companies, and 1,983 are local. So far, KCM has awarded contracts worth US$69.1 million to local suppliers and contractors, and US$7.27 million to foreign suppliers and contractors. Under the scheme of arrangements, all Class I creditors who are owed US$1 million or less have been fully paid, while Class II creditors owed more than US$1 million have received 35 per cent of their dues with remaining payments ongoing as per the agreed terms.

The issue pertaining to payments to creditors contesting the scheme, such as the Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC), which was recently adjudicated upon by the High Court, will be settled in due course. In addition, under the post-liquidation era, US$383 million out of the US$407 million in transactions has been paid to suppliers and contractors, with the remaining US$24 million being paid according to agreed terms. As for the corporate social responsibility programme, KCM has set aside US$20 million for 2024 and 2025 activities going towards community and social commitments through an established community trust comprising four members of the community with 12 per cent translating to US$2.4 million having been spent so far.

Madam Speaker, I wish to highlight that in recent months, KCM has faced some challenges in operations, which include the following:

1. increased power cost due to ZESCO Limited’s 35 per cent upfront payment requirement, which KCM plans to mitigate by developing a 200 MW solar power plant in Chililabombwe;
2. power deficits as a result of the challenges caused by inadequate water for hydroelectricity generation faced by the country; and
3. outstanding payments to the CEC, which is actively engaging the corporation after the recent court judgement.

Madam Speaker, I would like to assure the House and the people of Zambia that Mopani Copper Mines, KCM, Ming’omba Mine and Kitumba Mine are good stories and all of them are viable and will continue to undertake their mining operations. They remain financially sound and have put in place plans to meet their outstanding obligations to suppliers and contractors of goods and services. In addition, Mopani Copper Mines and KCM are working around the clock to ensure that all outstanding payments are settled within the shortest possible time and to cushion the operations of various small suppliers of goods and services.

Madam Speaker, as the Government, we have continued to engage with the two mining companies to enable them pay our local suppliers and contractors who play a critical role in contributing to the socio-economic development of our country. As I conclude, I wish to reiterate that the two mining companies remain and will continue to play an integral part in the country’s quest to attain the 3 million metric tonnes by 2031 and significantly contribute to the country’s socio-economic transformation agenda.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement presented by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

Madam Speaker, I do recall that the President –

Mr Twasa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Solwezi East, just a moment.

Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, what is your point of order?

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I stand here with a very troubled heart. My point of order is pursuant to Standing Order 71.

Madam Speaker, listening to the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House –

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Interruptions

Mr Amutike: It has to be raised contemporaneously.

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, sorry for that interruption.

Interruptions

Mr Twasa: I seek your protection, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security has given a very good submission here and has urged each one of us to go back to our constituencies and engage the people on the things that he elaborated and on some of the things that were presented to us yesterday by the hon. Minister of Justice. I am wondering how I will do that when his officers are always preventing me from having meetings in my constituency.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Twasa: That was not the first time that was happening, yet he is sending me to go to the constituency and engage the electorates. I am wondering how I will do that because at one time when we were discussing a developmental project, the police came to pick me up in Chiyoko. Last year, the same Government, which prevented that developmental meeting, came to officiate at the opening of the health post.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Twasa: Last year in December when we were having a meeting where we were agreeing with the community on the school to build this year, the police came to wait for me until I finished the meeting. They gave me time –

Mr Amutike: What is your question?

Mr Twasa: My question, Madam Speaker, is: Why is the hon. Minister sending me to go and engage the people in the constituency when at the same time he is sending his officers to come and prevent me from having meetings? What is one who preaches what one cannot practice referred to?

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you for that point of order.

Hon. Members, we have to make progress. There is no way we can spend half of the time just raising points of order. We have a lot of work before us that we have to finish.

However, hon. Member for Kasenengwa, you cannot wait for an opportunity to raise that matter on the Floor of the House. The hon. Minister is here. I remember that the same issue that you have raised has been attended to on several occasions in this House, that hon. Members are supposed to work freely in their constituencies. However, if you have an issue that is affecting your performance because of the police, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security is here. You can visit him at his office so that you iron out that issue before you go back. For sure, the members of the public in your constituency would like to see you. You have to work in your constituency. You have to give information. So, hon. Member for Kasenengwa, please, visit the office of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security so that you are protected and you will be able to do your work.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the Ministerial Statement.

Madam Speaker, I think, it is high time that the people of Zambia –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Have you see now what has happened because of the unnecessary points of order. Before the hon. Member for Chama North comes in, the hon. Member for Solwezi East was on the Floor.

Hon. Member for Solwezi East, you may continue.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

Madam Speaker, I recall the President advocating for settling mining issues outside the courts of law. Now, the hon. Minister stated that there is an issue in court involving the Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) and a mining company. What was the motivation for that case to go to court? Was it that, maybe, the mining firm was not able to pay its dues or what? What was the motivation for the case to be taken to court looking at what the President advocates for?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very important question.

Madam Speaker, what happened between the CEC and KCM, which necessitated the action that the hon. Member is referring to, is that the CEC had a legacy debt which was occasioned during the liquidation period. However, when Vedanta Resources Limited came back, it proposed that there be a scheme of arrangement. Now, in the scheme of arrangement, there are those who opt to not be part of the scheme of arrangement. So, the debt that the CEC has been chasing was not accrued by the current Vedanta Resources Limited, but a legacy debt that happened when the mine was in liquidation and was being run by a liquidator called Milingo Lungu, and we all know who was running the mines at that time. So, when Vedanta Resources Limited came, it proposed in its agreement that there be a scheme of arrangement and everybody in the scheme be paid according to the agreements in the scheme. So, the CEC did not want to be paid. In fact, there is money waiting for it to be paid as part of the scheme of arrangement as long as it agrees to the terms of the scheme. However, CEC went to court and it was given a Fi fa, or whatever it is called, I am sure the legal minds will tell us the correct term, and thereafter, CEC pounced on KCM. As a result, KCM quickly went court and told the court that there was actually a scheme of arrangements, which was agreed on by the majority of its creditors. So, that is what occasioned that action, not that Vedanta Limited refused to pay CEC. Therefore, if CEC agrees to the scheme of arrangements, it will be paid part of its money. So, it is only CEC that has taken Vedanta Limited to court, not that all mining issues are being settled in court. Since inception, this Government has always preached the settling of all mining issues outside court.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister alluded to the number of foreign and local suppliers registered with the mines. There are two key things concerning the mines, which are job and wealth creation. The bulk of the wealth creation rests in the supply chain management. Other countries have created legislation which protects local suppliers. So, as he provides leadership in his ministry, what legislation is the hon. Minister going to introduce to ensure that the bulk of the supply chain management in the mines is given to local suppliers?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, that is very important question.

Madam Speaker, this Government has been very smart. What have we done? Immediately President Hakainde Hichilema took the reins of power, he instructed us to reform the mining sector by creating a regulatory body, which is very important. Secondly, we drafted the Geological and Minerals Development Bill, which speaks to what the hon. Member is referring to; local content.

Madam Speaker, we are moving smartly. As we reinstate mining operations, we are also reforming the sector. We are not a Government that just talks because we know that by nature, business people only obey a legal framework that compels them to do what is required. That is why yesterday, the Geological and Minerals Development Bill passed the Committee Stage. Today, the Bill will be at the Report Stage and, hopefully, also pass Third Reading. Thereafter, the President will assent to it. So, the laws will be enforced side by side. When that happens, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, whoever it will be in the near future, will put in place Statutory Instruments (SI) to compel mining company to do what is required. That is what we are targeting because we understand that the benefits from the mining sector should not only be taxes and direct jobs, but that local suppliers and contractors should also get contracts. We want to create certain thresholds in the sector. We do not want to instruct Mopani Copper Mines, for instance, to give contracts or jobs to local people so that they can make a bit of money. We want the law to compel mining companies to do that. So, that is what we are doing in the mining sector. Believe me that as the head of this Government, President Hakainde Hichilema (HH) has the political will to do that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi South, why can you not ask a question? The hon. Minister is still on the Floor.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, it is high time the people of Zambia derived maximum economic benefits from their mineral wealth by the Government ensuring that local people have access to business contracts. In the last few days, there have been many complaints from contractors and suppliers in Copperbelt Province. So, I want to find out whether the ministry has a mechanism to monitor the mines to ensure that local people are not disadvantaged in terms of business prospects.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I think, the hon. Member has heard me say that a business person in any environment is only compelled to do what is required if there is law or rule in place.

Madam Speaker, the unfortunate circumstances in Copperbelt Province in the past few days were as a result of information that we are all aware of. Two leaders in a named grouping supplied substandard things to Mopani Copper Mines and the company refused to pay them. I have information to prove the allegation that they supplied substandard things. One of the contracts was worth US$17,000 and the other one was worth US$1 million.

Mr Amutike: They supplied air.

Mr Kabuswe: So, substandard things were supplied and Mopani Copper Mines rejected them. The company told the suppliers that it would not cancel the orders, but the goods should be retrieved and replaced with better ones. I was in the meeting with the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province where that issue was discussed and he can bear witness. A report was laid before us.

Madam Speaker, the said suppliers are the ones leading the demonstrations in Copperbelt Province and using other people in trying to paint the Government black and derail the efforts we are making. However, the issue of Mopani Copper Mines is a good story and it will change the fortunes of the people in Copperbelt Province. That is all as a result of the laws we have put in place. So, we are well aware of what has necessitated those protests and we will get to the bottom of the issue.

Madam Speaker, I want to urge the suppliers and contractors in Copperbelt Province to take an interest in the laws we are putting in place. I thank Hon. Mabeta for highlighting what this Parliament has done regarding a Bill on local content, which encompasses what the hon. Member is asking about. So, laws will be put in place to compel people to do the right thing, and not word of mouth.

Madam Speaker, I think, I have been standing on mountaintops from 2021 to date saying that companies should give local people contracts and jobs. Behind the scenes, meanwhile, uwami ngalato, HH, ale chaya, and as a result, the laws on local content and a regulatory framework have been put in place. When the earlier mentioned Acts of Parliament are implemented, and I know they will, they will change the game.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 144, which states that the Presiding Officer may exercise discretion on whether to allow a point of order or not. Therefore, I thank you for allowing me to raise a point of order.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Yon may continue.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, the country is well aware that we have youths who are unemployed. The Government is making efforts to create employment and everyone is happy. However, employment must also go with qualifications. It is important that we look at qualifications when we are dealing with the health of human beings.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is on the hon. Minister of Health. In our communities, we have what we call Trained Community Health Workers. These workers are doing a lot of work. What has happened in my constituency, particularly in Chikupili, Mapapa and Copper Mine, just to mention a few places, is that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has employed known unqualified political cadres to work in clinics.

Interruptions

Mr Chisopa: We are not joking here. They think we are joking. We are talking about the lives of people. 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi South, you are not supposed to engage other hon. Members in your debate or whatever you are stating on the Floor of the House. You are addressing your point of order to me, not to other hon. Members. Please, summarise. I want to make a ruling.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, what has happened is very sad. The community health workers who were trained were left out. This United Party for National Development (UPND) Government has employed known cadres with political party positions to work at health institutions. Is the hon. Minister of Health in order to create professional employment for political cadres, thereby, putting the lives of people in danger?

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, that is a misplaced point of order. You should have found other means of bringing that matter to the House. It does not qualify as a point of order because it is not distracting the Business of the House. So, it is not admissible. Just find another way to bring that matter back to the House.

We make progress.

Hon. Member for Kamfinsa, you may proceed.

Interruptions

Ms Nyirenda interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lundazi –

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: Balikwata umusalula. Bebeni! (Pointed at Hon. UPND Members).

Interruptions

Ms Nyirenda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

I have given the Floor to the hon. Member for Kamfinsa.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank your office for directing the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to issue a Ministerial Statement, which was prompted by my Urgent Matter without Notice.

Ms Nyirenda interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member of Lundazi, you are debating whilst seated and you are shouting on top of your voice. I think, you have to go and familiarise yourself with the Standing Orders. For today, you may take a break.

Interruptions

Ms Nyirenda interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lundazi, please, leave the House. There is a better way of bringing your grievance to the House.

Interruptions

Ms Nyirenda interjected and pointed at hon. UPND Members.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lundazi, please, leave the House.

Ms Nyirenda left the Assembly Chamber.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Kamfinsa, did you finish asking your question?

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, once again, I would like to thank your office for directing the hon. Minister to issue a Ministerial Statement based on the Urgent Matter without Notice that I raised.

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence to ask one question on Mopani Copper Mines Plc and another one on Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). I will be quick. The hon. Minister took time to give details about what has been happening in an attempt to resolve the problems at the two mines, which he called challenges. In the statement, the hon. Minister highlighted an issue concerning bailiffs pouncing on KCM, which was an action prompted by a dispute between Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) Plc and the mine. The Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) Plc owns 24 per cent shares in CEC and 20 per cent in KCM, meaning that ZCCM-IH is a shareholder in both the electricity supply company and the mining company. Given that the Government has an interest in both entities and yet the two are involved in a dispute, what is the ministry doing to find an amicable solution to resolve that problem?

Mrs Masebo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, what is your point of order?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, first I want to apologise to my young brother, the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, for interrupting him. It is not my fashion.

Madam Speaker, I rise on a serious point of order. Standing Order No. 71 provides that issues brought to the House by hon. Members must be factual. I am concerned about a point of order that was raised by one hon. Member who talked about people who are not qualified, but are cadres, having being employed to work in a hospital or clinic. It is a very serious assertion, which was brought up deliberately and falsely to mislead the people of Zambia. It is important to clarify some issues because health is not a sector to play around with. Is the hon. Member in order to lie by saying that people who have been employed are cadres?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, you know well that we had people who worked as general workers during the cholera outbreak, and the President gave a directive to employ those people as general workers; sweepers and gardeners. So, it is misleading to say that cadres have been employed to work as professionals because people will get scared. I ask that this matter be clarified.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: According to the rules of the House, we cannot raise a point of order on another point of order. Moreover, I did not admit the point of order you have referred to. I clearly mentioned that it was a displaced point of order and did not qualify to be raised as such.

Hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, you may proceed.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the Government has 36 per cent shares in Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) Plc. When the unfortunate incident happened, we were all taken aback. You know that we only make decisions as a Government at the board level. I think, one overzealous Chief Executive Officer (CEO) tried to create a disturbance. The Government is part of KCM. So, the issues could have even been discussed than disrupting an investment, which all of us in this House want to succeed for the sake of our people. It is an important observation, which we also made, as the Government. The CEC could have done better. Internal disciplinary measures are being instituted so that such things do not happen in future, which may, as a consequence, embarrass all of us.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the detailed Ministerial Statement he has presented and his answers.

Madam Speaker, do you realise that Mopani Copper Mines, which is housed in my constituency, is one of the biggest contributors to the financial and economic well-being of Mufulira? Any form of disturbance, such as what we observed last week, sends wrong signals about the efforts that the ministry is making to ensure that jobs remain secured, suppliers are paid and everybody continues to live better lives, which the hon. Minister has referred to, and the President aspires for the people.

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when he will visit Mopani Copper Mines, particularly, the contractors and even the so-called miners who are working under the contractors, to ensure that they feel the presence of the Government with regard to the 49 per cent equity partnership that was secured.  They need to feel secure as opposed to what is happening where everything seems to be flowing into the water.  When can we feel the presence of the ministry so that we can have confidence?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for that question.

Madam Speaker, my programme to travel to the Copperbelt Province is out. I am just waiting for clearance from His Excellency the President. The visit to all the mines is scheduled for April because that is when we are supposed to check on the shareholders’ compliance regarding the implementation.  Therefore, I would love to encourage Hon. Kang’ombe, Hon. Mpundu, Hon. Mabeta and all the hon. Members of Parliament from the Copperbelt, to join us as we visit the mine so that they get first-hand information of what is happening there, rather than listening to the lies spread that Mopani Copper Mines has failed. I will share my programme with the hon. Members and the Minister for the Copperbelt Provincial.

Madam Speaker, the story of Mopani Copper Mines, Mingomba Mine, Kitumba Mine, Kalengwa Mine, Lubambe Mine and others is good. In fact, in May this year, President Hakainde Hichilema will be in Chililabombwe to commission the shaft sinking project at Lubambe Mine. Let me emphasise that when sinking a shaft in any jurisdiction, one needs to have knowledge of the economic stability of that particular area because that is huge investment. Shaft sinking is basically digging without getting anything. However, it is a huge investment. So, one needs to know the predictability and stability of the economy, and that one will recover their money when production starts.

Mr Nkandu: Quality!

Mr Kabuswe:  So, there is an economic up-swing and mining still remains its backbone.

Mr Nkandu: Yes!

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, amidst very difficult conditions in 2024, the country has posted positive growth of 824,000 metric tonnes of copper production. Zambia is experiencing an economic up-swing.  With the abundant rainfall that we have had, and all the measures that President Hakainde Hichilema has put in place in terms of the energy, we are going to see what we need to see in the mining space. All the mining companies must know that there is a mining regulator, and that the Local Content Law is coming into place.  Zambians will see the benefit.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Quality!

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, let me start by congratulating our female Parliamentarians for successfully launching the Crèche Nursery, where mothers will be taking their children. I hope that includes the mothers who are members of staff as opposed to what the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House stated.

Madam Speaker, I have been following the responses by the hon. Minister. In his responses, he repeatedly said that the story of Mopani Copper Mines and other mines was good.  As for Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), he highlighted a number of challenges. He talked about the 65.1 million contracts being awarded to local contractors. Let me take the hon. Minister back. I recall that he assured this House that he was not going to entertain the issue of Vedanta Resources being taken back to KCM. He further assured us that the Vedanta Resources that was coming back was different.  We felt we could morally trust him, but –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, please, summarise your question.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, whilst the hon. Minister is giving a good picture of the other mines, what is the problem with KCM, regarding the contractors and local suppliers other than that single one he has talked about? I know that he is seated next to the hon. Minister, who is also from the constituency where mining is done, and.  I hope he is giving him accurate information.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, when I was on the main stage there, I said that KCM is a good story, and so is Mopani Copper Mines.  Currently, KCM is up to date in terms of payments to contractors and suppliers. The challenge we have is that there are Zambian contractors that do not pay their workers and even after they are paid by the Government.  We will visit them   when we go to the Copperbelt. I think the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province and the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, are very aware that KCM is up to date. There is a security company, which I will not mention here because it is not here to defend itself, which is not paying its workers.

Madam Speaker, I mentioned in my statement that a tranche worth K50 million is sitting in the bank.  According to the implementation agreement, another tranche will be deposited in July and by the end of this year, 2025. So, as we are looking at the agreement, and as I go with my colleagues to check on the mines, we should ask ourselves how far we have gone with production.

Madam Speaker, KCM took over the operations of the mine when it was producing 5,000 metric tonnes per month. Now, it is producing 8,700 metric tonnes per month. Even amidst the energy challenges that it has had, the mine has been made to pay 35 per cent upfront in terms of electricity tariffs.   That is a challenge in the mining operation.  A mine would be expected to first develop, sell its copper, and then pay 35 per cent upfront towards the tariffs.   Although the mine has complied with that, it has faced challenges. They say, “To every dark cloud, there is a silver lining.”  Chililabombwe will benefit from the 200 MW power plant because I know that KCM will not be consuming everything. It will also benefit from the national grid.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The right is too quiet.

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, mine suppliers and contractors affiliate to an association called the Mine Suppliers and Contractors Association of Zambia. This means that when mines are faced with challenges, they can call for a meeting so that the information or the decision made is then taken to the mining suppliers and contractors.  So, I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether there is a good relationship between the mines   and the Mine Suppliers and Contractors Association of Zambia. I ask because I see a breakdown in terms of information flow.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, indeed, we have encouraged the mining companies to have good relationships with their suppliers and contractors. So, I call upon our mines suppliers and contractors to speak with one voice and also avoid rogue supplies. We know that President Hakainde Hichilema has talked about quality, prompt delivery, and the right price. What happened in Kitwe was unfortunate because the workers were just taken advantage of. If we look at their petition, almost fourteen companies out of those that claimed that they were not paid, were actually not even registered with Mopani Copper Mine.  It is like they just came to say they have not been paid. Honestly speaking, it is unfortunate for somebody to go on social media to say that IRH is not doing anything or that it is a rogue investor, yet it is almost reaching what it pledged in the agreement.

They had US$830 million and they have employed 1,900 workers. Further, they have taken off the python called “Glencore” and then, you say that the investor is not serious. That is unacceptable! So, even our suppliers must posture a demeanour that demands respect. In the background, I have been engaging mining companies. So, when we went to the Copperbelt, we were informed by Mopani Copper Mines that they have what they call quarterly meetings with suppliers and contractors. In fact, we will be having three tier meetings, firstly, with the mines, secondly, with the contractors and suppliers and, thirdly, with the workers. We really want to appreciate and understand what is going on.

Madam Speaker, as a matter of fact, if you have noticed, there is very little cries from the employees of the two mines. Well, we cannot say that they are 100 per cent happy but, at least, something is going on because we have not heard a lot of noise. Mopani Copper Mines and KCM increased the salaries of their employees.  So, really, we have to deal with that cadre of business men around the two mining companies. Of course, the law will help them but there must be mutual respect between the supplier/contractor and the mining companies.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has really painted a good picture of Mopani Copper Mines and Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). The picture he has painted is sharply different from what we are observing from the ground.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: I was on the Copperbelt last weekend.

Madam Speaker, International Resources Holding (IRH) is an investor in Delta. Delta is an investor in Mopani Copper Mines. I believe Delta has its own management, which has its own objectives for Delta. I also believe that IRH has its own management, which has its own objectives for Delta and other interests it holds. Now, if Delta is the investor in Mopani Copper Mines, what is the legality surrounding IRH bailing out Mopani Copper Mines when it has issues? I say so because the hon. Minister mentioned on the Floor of this House that Mopani Copper Mines had difficulties and IRH came in with figures. What are these figures? I wrote them; …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Summarise your question, hon. Member.

Mr Kafwaya: … US$100 million and US$17 million. What is the legality of IRH bailing out Mopani Copper Mines when it has problems, yet IRH is not the investor in Mopani Copper Mines, but its subsidiary is Delta?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, Mopani Copper Mines is a good story and it has been funded.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for exercising your discretion.

Madam Speaker, in the response provided by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, there is one common challenge in both Mopani Copper Mines and Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), which the hon. Minister classifies as an operational challenge. The hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development was given the information, which has been presented today. When is the ministry going to undertake an audit to establish the facts around the details the hon. Minister has provided today because our responsibility as hon. Members is to provide oversight?  The oversight we have provided today is that there are challenges in the two mines. When is the ministry going to undertake an audit because there is a variance that needs to be addressed between the picture the hon. Minister has painted and the reality?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very engaging and important question.

Madam Speaker, I am glad that the hon. Member who has asked the question is an engineer. I thank God that he has worked in a mine before. The hon. Member knows the levels to which KCM reached. However, to make it cash positive, you need astute and focused leadership otherwise, you cannot turn around that mine. This is why as the New Dawn Government, our eyes are fixated. Vedanta Resources Limited receives calls from me, the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province and the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, because it is a one Government approach. We are on it, but we also appreciate the rot that was in KCM when it was under the liquidator.

Madam Speaker, production at the mine went down from 20,000 per month to 5,000. Now, to lift it back to 20,000 including how the mine – Growing up, I would see KCM, but when you go to it right now, you would think there were bombs and people were ransacking it. So, they need to rebuild the mine. By the way, both mines are less than a year old in terms of the investments that are coming in. So, really, considering what is on the ground right now, nokwesha natweshako.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Meaning?

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, it means that we have tried. I want to give context because I know where that question is coming from and it is referring to striking a balance between the figures that we are shouting and what is on the ground. What would be important is, first and foremost, to fatten this cow before you milk it but, really, there is little milk that is coming out. What I want to tell our people – and they are right in complaining– is that, yes, it may take a bit of time to see the benefits because the cow must first be fattened and then later, you can start squeezing the milk. Otherwise, if you squeeze the milk before the cow is fat, cattle farmers will tell you that it will die. That is why we are saying these are good stories.

Madam Speaker, to answer the hon. Member’s question, as we go on the ground next week, we want to see the figures. I want to assure him that Mopani Copper Mines even did a presentation to us explaining what figures went to the synclinorium shaft and all those things.

Interruptions

Mr Kabuswe: Yes, Everich Henderson Shaft. We know where all the monies are going to, but we are going to audit the mine when we go. It is not going to be business as usual and it will not be a visit to play around, but a visit to check whether what we have agreed here is being implemented and we will give you a report. I encourage hon. Members who will have time that we go together to check what is happening so that they can prove for themselves.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me an opportunity to raise a point of order on the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Madam Speaker, is it not the practice of this House that all hon. Members are free to ask questions on points of clarification and that the Government, through hon. Ministers, should be accountable to the people by responding with dignity to the questions that are asked by hon. Members of Parliament, including myself.

Madam Speaker, is it fair for the hon. Minister to respond to my question by saying that so, ifyo fyala afwilisha ichalo?

Hon. Opposition Members: Eh!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, is it fair for the hon. Minister –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What does that mean hon. Member?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I have the meaning because that is the tribe we use where I come from. It means; is what I am saying going to assist the country when my question was about a clear transaction where IRH has no investment in Mopani Copper Mines, but has an investment in Delta. When the hon. Minister gave evidence here, he said that IRH has been bailing out Mopani Copper Mines. It provided US$100 million and later on, provided another US$17 million when Mopani Copper Mines had issues. Instead of the hon. Minister just stating whether it is legal or illegal for International Resources Holding (IRH) to bail out Mopani Copper Mines, he decided to laugh at my question, which I asked on behalf of the Zambian people, particularly the people of Lunte.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Is the hon. Minister in order to conduct himself in the manner he has done, and should the Assembly be okay with that?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 When you asked the question, the hon. Minister gave a response. Whether the response was satisfactory to you or not, I think, that is up to you. As I was seated here, I heard the hon. Minister respond. Maybe, you expected a certain response from him. However, I will give the hon. Minister a chance to repeat or add more information. He is still on the Floor of the House.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, if I have a child and that child has a business –

Mr Simumba interjected.

Mr Kabuswe: No, the Presiding Officer has every reason to give guidance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I know, it is a point of order, but the hon. Minister is still on the Floor. He is responding. Let us listen to him so that the hon. Member for Lunte is satisfied.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, if my child has a business and I help him or her to settle certain matters, it can be said that my child has carried out his or her obligations. That is basically the relationship between International Resources Holding, Delta Mining Limited and Mopani Copper Mines. That is all.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We make progress.

I have also permitted the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources to present a Ministerial Statement.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We are behind time, very much behind time.

TEMPORARY DISRUPTION IN THE ZAMBIA INTEGRATED LAND ADMINISTRATION SYSTEM

The Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to thank you for allowing me to make this Ministerial Statement on the temporary disruption of the ministry’s e-Services on the Government Service Bus, also known as ZamPortal, through the Zambia Integrated Land Administration System (ZILAS).

Madam Speaker, on 28^th May, 2023, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources introduced a new land administration system called ZILAS to replace the Zambia Integrated Land Management Information System (ZILMIS). ZILMIS involved the use of both electronic and manual methods. It also involved physical interaction between clients and officers at the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources for all transactions. Unlike ZILMIS, the current system, known as ZILAS, provides online services to the public aimed at bringing efficiency to the ministry and services closer to the public.

Madam Speaker, ZILAS is better than ZILMIS in that the former enables clients to have access to the system from anywhere and at any time through the electronic filing service on the ZamPortal. It is also better because it is integrated with the ZamPortal to verify National Registration Cards (NRCs) and company profiles, among others. It also has an audit trail showing the log of events for the users of the system and the services used. Clients are also able to receive automatic notifications of progress pertaining to their transactions. The system also has an embedded platform for electronic payments and issuance of invoices and receipts. It has reduced the need for human interaction in the delivery of land services to the public, resulting in increased revenue collection, among others.

Madam Speaker, although ZILAS has more advantages than the old ZILMIS, it has its own challenges, such as the recent system disruption. On Wednesday, 12^th February, 2025, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources experienced a system disruption of ZILAS. The disruption also affected the ZamPortal, which is the public-facing interface of the system. The ZamPortal enables the public to apply for land-related services. The disruption did not only affect ZILAS, but the entire ZamPortal, which ZILAS is part of. After four days of disruption, ZILAS and the ZamPortal were eventually restored on Sunday, 16^th February, 2025.

Madam Speaker, after the system restoration and all the e-Services on ZamPortal became fully operational, user departments in the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources noticed that the transactions that were processed from 27^th January, 2025, to 12^th February, 2025 were not accessible. The Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources informed the SMART Zambia Institute, which is the division responsible for managing and maintaining the Government Service Bus, on the matter.

Madam Speaker, after the four days of the system disruption from 12^th to 16^th February 2025, further consultations with the ZamPortal teams at Ministry of Finance and National Planning and SMART Zambia Institute were undertaken. An assurance was given that the transactions that could not be accessed on ZILAS would be restored sooner or later. The disruption of ZILAS resulted in stalled transactions, which led to delays in the collection of revenue by the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources. The disruption also caused failure by the ministry to offer services to clients, among other things.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources understands and sincerely regrets the inconvenience the disruption has caused to its clients and wishes to sincerely apologise to the public. The ministry would also like to assure all its clients and the general public that, in collaboration with the SMART Zambia Institute, measures are being put in place to help prevent the recurrence of a system disruption in future.

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the august House that on Friday, 7^th March, 2025, the transactions which were inaccessible were finally restored on ZILAS. It is also worth noting that all the payments clients made for the services applied for during the affected period are intact and clients will not be required to make any payments again, unless they are applying for new services. The ministry is currently working around the clock to ensure that the backlog on ZILAS is cleared.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I would, once more, like to apologise to the public and other relevant clients for the inconvenience the system disruption caused. The ministry would like to officially inform all its clients and the general public at large that ZILAS is up and running.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement presented by the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources.

Hon. Member for Chienge, you may proceed.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, fear gripped the nation because people wanted to know if the information that was on the system was still intact. Some feared that they might have lost their title deeds. So, I would like the hon. Minister to clarify if the backlog has been updated. Furthermore, in the future, are we not going to see a situation in which someone will claim to have lost his or her title deeds because of the duration of the system break down?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, first of all, an estimated 4,236 applications that were interrupted have since been restored. However, there is more work to be done. I would like to assure the public that the situation is under control. We hope that by working with the Smart Zambia Institute, we, as a  ministry, will enhance the backup mechanism. The fact is that all the services have been restored and are fully operational. That is good news. Again, I want to say that the ministry will do everything possible to ensure that what transpired does not happen again.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I believe that the whole essence of migrating to the Zambia Integrated Land Administration System (ZILAS), as an information and communication technology (ICT) tool, is to improve efficiency and move away from the old way of doing things, which was prone to corruption. Can the hon. Minister assure stakeholders of the security of ZILAS in avoiding disruptions or sabotage? As we know, title deed issues were prone to many instances of corruption in the past. So, what assurance does the ministry have that the system is secure and that the data is safe?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, first of all, the system is secure. However, it is for the experts to give details on the question of how secure the system is. I do not want to mislead the House. Suffice it to say that it is a good system. I have already stated the advantages that it has in comparison with the old system. The important point that most people do not understand is that a transaction that is done online has to have two people responding to each other. For example, when one submits a transaction application and the ministry responds, but it takes that person a week to check for the response, because that person is not aware, there is nothing that the ministry can do. The ministry can only move to the next stage of the transaction when one has responded. The ministry has noted that part of the reason there are delays is that the person on the other side has to respond. So, when the ministry sends a request or form requesting a signature, and one does not sign it, the ministry will not proceed with the request. As I have already said, the system tracks every transaction. So, if anything goes wrong, we can tell which officer or person was logged in and made that entry. Like any system, it will have the challenges that we have talked about, but the good part is that we can know who was dealing with the system at any given point.

Madam Speaker, the problem is that the ministry is just a client which uses the platform. It does not manage it. The platform is managed by the Smart Zambia Institute, which may also have other partners managing the platform. So, I may be forgiven for not being in tune with the technical issues. The Smart Zambia Institute deals with all those things. Even if the ministry has an ICT department that assists, the department is not the full-time manager of the system.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Andeleki (Katombola): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the voice of Katombola Constituency to ask a question.

Madam Speaker, corruption at the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources dates back to the time when the late Levy Mwanawasa was President. The late Levy Mwanawasa once said that the Ministry of Lands smells of corruption. We have had situations whereby files have been lost. We even had a case in which somebody's records were completely deleted from the system by ministry officers; erasing all the details for property owned by a prominent musician in Zambia. How reliable is the ministry’s system and what measures are being put in place to ensure corruption does not continue in that ministry?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, corruption is a vice that has a long history in this country. All I can say is that this Administration is committed to fighting corruption, not only past corruption but today’s corruption and corruption that might occur tomorrow. The other side of it is that each one of us, as citizens of this country, have a role to play in the fight against corruption. Remember that it takes two to tangle. Corruption is there. I would be cheating myself if I said that there is no corruption. The ministry has to be assisted. For example, if as a client, one finds that somebody in the ministry has done something which amounts to corruption, one must help the ministry by informing its officers so that the ministry can deal with such an officer. One can also report the matter to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) or, indeed, any other security wing so that we can fight corruption together in our systems of Government.  The truth remains that corruption will be in this country until we stop politicising it. It will be there until we, as Zambians, stop glorifying corrupt people. Corruption will be there until we stop creating a narrative of confusion in the fight against corruption. For example, if one chooses to call me corrupt, instead of referring to the one who is really corrupt, just because he or she is protected.  That confuses the public. Today, Zambians do not truly know who is corrupt and who is not because we, as Zambians glorify corrupt people. We create propaganda by calling innocent people corrupt. That makes it difficult to fight corruption.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I am raising a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 215 (e) and (i), which say,

“215.  Gross Disorderly Conduct

A Member commits an act of gross disorderly conduct if the Member –

(e)        uses violence against a Member or other person in the House, Committee or within the precincts of the Assembly;

1. acts in any other way to the serious detriment of the dignity or orderly procedure of the House.”

Madam Speaker, whilst you only saw the reaction from the hon. Member for Lundazi, Ms Nyirenda, what was not brought to your attention is the verbal attack she received from one of my colleagues, whom I respect so much, the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, Eng. Nzovu. He was verbally cross attacking her.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah! Where?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, borrowing the words of the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Kampyongo: … who says that it takes two to tangle, is the hon. Member in order to pretend, just as he is doing now, to be responding to me, when he is actually verbally attacking a female hon. Member, who is quietly following the deliberations? That verbal attack caused her to react in the manner that she did. In the spirit of fairness, I thought I could bring this matter to your attention because the Standing Order is provided for such a purpose.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I thank you hon. Member, I understand your point of order except that I did not see any violent attack against any hon. Member in the House. However, this is a dignified House, and you are all hon. Members of Parliament. We all need to respect each other.  We should not demean any hon. Member in the House. Hon. Members, should you be provoked, I think there is a better way of responding to such incidents rather than disturbing the proceedings of the House. If the hon. Member for Lundazi was – I do not know what transpired – I wish there was a better way that she could have presented herself to the Speaker, rather than debating whilst seated and disrupting the proceedings of the House. I am sure there is a better way of presenting such issues and I would have given here a listening ear. So, if the hon. Member for Lundazi was hurt, she would have presented her case according to the standing rules. I could have given her a listening ear.

Hon. Members, like I have already guided, let us respect one another, especially the women. This is a month for women.

Mrs Masebo: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is my ruling. Men, please, let us respect the women. They deserve to be respected.

With that guidance, let us make progress.

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, the Zambia Integrated Land Administration System (ZILAS) sits on the Government Service Portal (GSP) and can be accessed through ZamPortal. The failure of the system at ZILAS led to the interruption of Government services. At the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, the failure of the system led to the data from 27^th January to 12^th February, 2025, being locked. Nevertheless, 4,236 applications were restored. Did any other Government institutions that ride on the GSP lose data when the system at ZILAS failed? There are many other Government institutions that sit on the GSP, such as the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA), Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), and the Ministry of Education. Actually, that is an Electronic Government System (e-Government System). Is there any report of the information being lost from any Government institution sitting on the GSP?  If there was such a report, was that information restored?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question.  All I know is that at the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, ZILAS was disrupted, and data was lost. Therefore, I wish to report that the data which was lost has been restored.  The disruption created challenges for a number of clients, and that is why we decided to come and render an apology and also, to update the public on where we are so that they do not panic.  We would like to assure the public that we are doing everything possible as the Government to ensure that this does not repeat itself because it was quite disruptive.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, this is not the first time that we are seeing some challenges with the Zambia Integrated Land Administration System (ZILAS). ZILAS is a very good system that was installed about three years ago. However, the programme is also causing some serious concern, especially to the general public that deals with the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources.  The system cannot run for more than three months.  If it does, it will either break down or have disruptions for about two weeks or so and then be restored.   Is there a way the supplier of the software can be engaged to upgrade it?  I believe that the Government must have spent a fortune.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I am not sure whether what transpired this time around has ever happened. I think this is the first time that we have had that serious disruption. Sometimes, the system does not perform well because of load-shedding. Sometimes, it is not just effective.  So, it depends on the network service provider that one is using, be it Airtel Zambia, Zamtel or any other service provider. Even as we use our cellular phones, we notice poor service when trying to make calls.  That is the kind of disruption or inconvenience the system has had in the past.

I am not sure whether what transpired this time around has ever happened. This is the first time we have had this serious disruption. Indeed, sometimes, we have disruptions especially because of load-shedding or when the system is not effective. It also depends with the network provider. For instance, if you are using Airtel or Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL), you will notice that there is poor service when you try to make a call. So, those are the kind of disruptions or inconveniences that the system has had in the past. I think, this is the first time that we reported loss of data and the ministry could not do anything, and we had to wait for the SMART Zambia Institute to help us. So, the disruption which occurred in January to February has never happened. It was the first time.

Madam Speaker, it is also true to say that because the system is still new and work in progress, it is bound to have some teething problems. However, the Government, the SMART Zambia Institute and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning engaged the supplier so that some of the issues that the hon. Members have raised, which are correct, can be resolved going forward.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, it is a known practice in this House and precedence has been set that when secretary generals of parties write to advise, this Parliament responds. Last time, the party wrote to notify Parliament concerning the changes that had been made regarding the Leader of the Opposition and the Chief Whip. The letter was written at 1200 hours and at 1400 hours, the changes were made in the House. However, two days ago, changes were made for the Leader of the Opposition and the Chief Whip. The Opposition Chief Whip is now Hon. Brenda Nyirenda and the Leader of the Opposition is Hon. Mulenga Kampamba, but it has been forty-eight hours, and the changes have not been effected in this House, and that is why the Front Bench is empty. There is nobody to present us. Are we in order to continue on this trajectory of not following our precedence and ignoring letters from secretary generals of political parties advising on the changes?

Mr Chisopa: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much, hon. Member for Matero. I have not seen that communication.

Ms Chisenga: Muli babufi.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mambilima, the language is not good. Can you withdraw what you said.

Ms Chisenga: I withdraw, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

Hon. Member for Matero, since you said you communicated with the Office of the Speaker, definitely, the feedback will be sent to you in due course. I cannot comment on that issue because the letter has not yet reached my office. Definitely, a response will be given to you.

Let us make progress.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I just want to inform the hon. Minister that we have been having audit queries with the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources for the last three years. It started with the Zambia Integrated Land Management Information System (ZILMIS), now it is the Zambia Integrated Land Administration System (ZILAS).

Madam Speaker, with ZILMIS, it is a legacy issue. The ministry was not in control of the system and the backing up system was even in Israel. The ministry even submitted before the Public Accounts Committee that the system could not even generate certain bills that were required so it was migrating to ZILAS. Now, it seems that ZILAS, which is being supported by the SMART Zambia Institute, is beginning to have the same issues as ZILMIS. It is my view that the ministry must have a strong audit system on how ZILAS is working in comparison to ZILMIS and whether it was competitively procured for it to replace ZILMIS.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for the information that he has given me in particular, as Minister of Lands and Natural Resources. Considering that he is a Member of a Committee that deals with audits, he has doubt with details. All I can say is that, as Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, I will get in touch with him and his Committee to help us get further information since they did some audit verifications of the system.

Madam Speaker, suffice it to say that as a ministry, we have been engaging, through the SMART Zambia Institute, the supplier or the person managing this system. So far, for example, we have discovered that corruption has reduced because the system is able to detect whoever tries to interfere with the data on files. It has also reduced human interaction. Therefore, it also means that the system can be used by anybody from any part of Zambia without them necessarily having to come to Lusaka. So, in terms of costs on the clients, it has also helped. Like I said, the system is good, but it has issues, and we are working on those issues to perfect the system.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Sabao (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the good statement. The system having been disrupted for five days means that the Government lost many resources. Can the hon. Minister assure Zambians that this situation will not recur in future.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, when there is a disruption, you are bound to lose resources. It is not only the Government that lost resources, but even our clients lost business because of the inconvenience. However, the good news is that once the data was restored, the people who had made payments were captured and they do not have to pay double. So, there was an inconvenience and some loss of business, but we were able to get back to where we should have been without people losing money because of the interruption. It is true that there was an inconvenience, especially to our clients. However, like I have said, everything has been restored and we are now transacting. Those who transacted during the time the system was down do not have to repay or pay more money because the money has been received by the Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, I want to find out –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 [MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Chisanga: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that electronic platforms are usually backed up by the SMART Zambia Institute. During the time of disruption, was the backup system not working? The disruption lasted for more than three days.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I want to confirm that the backup system was not working.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, first of all, I want to appreciate the hon. Minister for apologising to the nation because many people have been inconvenienced. Our colleagues in law firms whose main business is with the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources were equally inconvenienced. So, I commend her for doing that.

Mr Speaker, some time back, the hon. Minister’s predecessor came to this august House to talk about the system which was installed previously and informed us that the ministry was going to change the supplier for systems at the ministry. At that point, we raised questions on how the ministry was going to migrate from the old system to a totally new system. Does the hon. Minister think that the migration from the old system could have affected the new system, which eventually collapsed, causing us to end up with the challenge we are dealing with now?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the old system, as I indicated in my statement, had a good side. However, it also had weaknesses. The current system is superior to the old system. Like I indicated also, this is the first time we had such a disruption.

Mr Speaker, as regards the other problems that have been encountered in the past, like I indicated, when there is no power supply from ZESCO Limited, or the system we are using is not fast, we have technical problems. These are the normal problems we face online.  This time around, the disruption had to do with interference in the data, to the extent that the data was not available for us to continue with transactions. What hon. Members need to note is that almost all transactions now at the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources are online. There are over seventy services being offered online. This is a good thing because the online system is efficient. Like I said, there are a number of advantages with online payments. Issues of queues at the ministry and corruption that hon. Members talk about have reduced. All those issues have kind of reduced just because of the system that is being used.

Mr Speaker, unfortunately, we have now found out that we have a challenge. This was a serious challenge, and like I said, it was the first time we experienced it. So, we, as the end user, which is the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, are not the ones who contracted the system. We are not responsible for the system because it is under a division of the Government which deals with those kinds of things; the SMART Zambia Institute. So, because we, as a ministry, use the system too much for online transactions, we were badly affected by the disruption. Of course, because of that experience, the SMART Zambia Institute is working around the clock to ensure that a system disruption does not happen again. As a ministry, we are also looking at having a tight backup system in future so that even if something goes wrong, we will have a fall-back measure. When the disruption happened, we had to wait until the system was restored. Of course, that had a negative impact, not only on the Government, but also on our clients.

Mr Speaker, the issue of electronic-Governance (e-Governance) or e-Services is a new concept for us in Zambia. Developed countries have gone further, but we are still building systems. So, all I can say is that we still have work to do.  

As I said, as good as the system is, when we send something to a client, we cannot move on, as we want the client to respond, but some clients are not used to electronic services (e-Services). So, it may take about three months, before something expires, and a client discovers that something was sent and the ministry is waiting for a response.

Mr Speaker, law firms are the ones that were badly affected. That is why we had to apologise. We made good law firms look inefficient. Their clients were shouting and complaining, and it was difficult for the law firms to explain. At that point, it was also difficult for the ministry, as an end-user of the Government Service Bus (GSB), to understand what was happening. I can only say that the ministry will get better and is doing everything possible to do so.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

MEASURES TAKEN TO SUPPLY TREATED WATER TO MWANDI DISTRICT

272. Ms Sefulo (Mwandi) asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

1. whether the Government is aware that the Western Water and Sewerage Company (WWSC) has been supplying residents of Mwandi District untreated water from the Zambezi River, thereby, posing a threat of an outbreak of waterborne diseases; and 
2. if so, what urgent measures are being taken to ensure that only treated water is supplied to the residents.

 The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Eng. Nzovu): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the concerns raised regarding the water supply in Mwandi District, but I also wish to clarify that the Mwandi water supply system abstracts water from the Zambezi River, which undergoes treatment through a water pressure filtration system. The process is facilitated by three pressure filters each with a capacity of 20 m³ containing filter material, which is sand, to remove suspended solids and other contaminants. The treatment process is completed with the addition of chlorine to disinfect the water ensuring residual chlorine remains to prevent any post-treatment contamination.

Mr Speaker, compliance with the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS) and the World Health Organisation (WHO) guidelines has been maintained through periodic monitoring at customer points. However, during the rainy season, the pressure filters occasionally become overwhelmed due to high turbidity levels in the river. In such cases, frequent backwashing is conducted to maintain water quality. Additionally, the Western Water and Sanitation Company (WWSC) has operational protocols in place, including routine water quality testing. Recent test results confirm that the water supplied to Mwandi meets the required guidelines.

Mr Speaker, the WWSC has taken the following immediate and medium to long-term measures to ensure continuous supply of treated water:

Immediate Measures

1. to address turbidity or water cloudiness and elevated iron levels, a pressure filter media was procured under the Drought Response Plan (DRP), and the water utility is in the process of installing the filter; and
2. a new water pump was acquired and installed to enhance the pressure filtration process and ensure efficient treatment; and

Medium to long-term Measures

Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to overhaul the Mwandi water supply system through:

1. installation of new pressure filters with the inclusion of coagulation for flocculation and sedimentation;
2. construction of a 5,000 m³ elevated tank;
3. 1,000 additional new water connections; and
4. expansion of the distribution network by 5 km. This intervention will include supply to Ilute Yeta Secondary School.

Mr Speaker, the interventions re-affirm the Government’s commitment to ensuring that all residents of Mwandi District have access to safe and treated water in line with national and international water quality standards.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the response and the plans that the ministry has put in place to deal with the current water situation in Mwandi.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that there is a challenge during the rainy season because filtration is not sufficiently done. However, the water is chlorinated and, therefore, has been proven safe. He also said something about water cloudiness. By definition, what is the colour of treated water? The water that currently runs from all taps in the district is not only cloudy, it is black and has particles. It is not even water that one can drink. From the hon. Minister’s definition of treated water, is water that is black and has particles safe to drink?

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, I must assure the hon. Member that the Government is taking the matter seriously. I have already said that to address turbidity or water cloudiness and elevated iron levels, a pressure filter media was procured under the Drought Response Plan (DRP), and the water utility is installing it. Further, during the last rainy season, the area received plenty of water. Indeed, the water was quite turbid, and its colour was not normal. That is why, again, I said that the Government procured a filter media to ensure that turbidity was reduced. The results we are seeing from the various tests we are continuously carrying out indicate that the water quality is good at the moment. However, we will not stop at that.

Mr Speaker, for the comfort of the hon. Member, the WWSC has operational protocols in place. The water utility undertakes routine water quality testing so that consistent chlorination and regular water quality tests are conducted at various points in the distribution network to ensure compliance with national drinking water quality standards.

Mr Speaker, the ministry also has emergency responses. Protocols are in place to address any system failures or water quality concerns, as the hon. Member has raised, including public notifications and temporary alternative supply measures, such as the use of water bowsers. We are looking seriously at the matter. Further, the water utility actively engages local stakeholders in Mwandi to enhance awareness and transparency regarding water supply operations.

Mr Speaker, the ministry has been working with the hon. Member for Mwandi to come up with a comprehensive plan to ensure that it supplies quality water to our people. To that end, in the next budget cycle, the ministry will budget K16 million to overhaul the Mwandi water supply system. We believe that the people of Mwandi will receive adequate and quality water with those measures.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, I appreciate all the interventions that the Government has taken in Mwandi. Water is life. When will the Government complete all the good processes that are in progress?

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that important question. Again, I want to assure all hon. Members of Parliament here, who have various challenges with their water supply, that the Government is doing everything possible to ensure that there is quality water supply in their areas.

Mr Speaker, regarding Mwandi, I stated very clearly that in the next budget cycle, there will be K16 million allocated to the water project. We are not just waiting for that capital injection for the project to be completed, but there are various interim measures that we are putting in place. As I said, the interventions will be put in place, and we have seen quality improvement.  However, we believe that by next year, the people of Mwandi will receive adequate water supply as we continue to maintain quality.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for all the assurances he has given to the people of Mwandi.

Mr Speaker, the process of supplying quality water in Mwandi, actually started in 2022, when I wrote to the ministry about the same issue. It is now 2025, almost three years down the line, and we are still hearing the same promises that something will be done. I had the privilege to receive the former hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation in Mwandi, who went to see for himself the challenges that people are facing in that area.  Unfortunately, the challenges cannot be resolved there and then using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) because of the cost that is involved.

Mr Speaker, another follow-up question to the hon. Minister is whether there is anything in the immediate, that can be done to ensure that we provide clean water to the people of Mwandi as we wait to complete the system overhaul that the hon. Minister talked about, which will be done next year. The water that is there is not clean. I wish I had carried a bottle of the same water for the hon. Minister to see. He cannot even drink it.

Eng. Nzovu: Mr Speaker, I sympathise with my fellow hon. Member of Parliament about the water challenges in her area. One of the immediate measures we are looking at, obviously, is to see how we can allocate a bit of funding to Mwandi. We have also discussed the possibility of blending the ministry's financing with the CDF. Let me encourage all hon. Members of Parliament here to work together. I know most of us come from rural areas and we say, “Water is life”. However, we are working with the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, because it has the necessary expertise. We will also design systems that can help us in the interim before a huge amount of capital is invested.

Mr Speaker, resolving issues in most of the fast-growing townships is a challenge because the required capital is quite high, starting from the intake, the treatment plant and then the distribution network. So, we implore all hon. Members of Parliament to work with us, even as they dispense their CDF. It is working in many areas. I will give an example of when we worked very closely with the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation to resolve water challenges in Bauleni and the issue was resolved. So, let us look at this model as one which is a quick fix solution. However, for Mwandi, we are budgeting for K16 million to help with the water project.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MEASURES TO AVERT ROAD TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS ALONG THE GREAT EAST ROAD

273. Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi) asked the Minister of Transport and Logistics:

1. what urgent measures the Government is taking to avert fatal road traffic accidents involving pedestrians along the Great East Road, at the University of Zambia in Lusaka District between the main entrance and the footbridge;  
2. whether an assessment was conducted to evaluate the convenience of the footbridge to pedestrians crossing the road along the stretch above; and
3. if so, what factors have contributed to the continued avoidance of the foot bridge by pedestrians crossing the road along the stretch.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi) (on behalf of the Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali)): Mr Speaker, the Government is concerned about the increasing number of road traffic accidents along the Great East Road between the main entrance at the University of Zambia (UNZA) and the footbridge. Therefore, to address this challenge, the Government will undertake the following short and medium to long-term measures.

Short Term Measures

1. installation of a pedestrian barrier on both sides of the road to compel all pedestrians to use the footbridge;
2. installation of rumble strips, speed reduction signs and pedestrian warning signs; and
3. undertake sensitisation campaigns on the need for students and the general public to be using the footbridge as a designated crossing point.

 Medium to Long-Term Measures

1. redesigning the footbridge to make it user-friendly.

Mr Speaker, following the construction of the footbridge, an assessment was conducted to evaluate its convenience to pedestrians. The assessment revealed that the footbridge design was not fit for purpose because of the steep gradient of the stairs and the ramp, thereby being avoided by pedestrians.

Mr Speaker, the following factors contribute to the continued avoidance of the footbridge by pedestrians crossing this section of the Great East Road.

Poor Adherence to Road Traffic Rules by Pedestrians

Mr Speaker, one of the factors leading to increased road traffic accidents by pedestrians is poor road user behaviour. This has led to pedestrians not using the footbridge, thereby, endangering their lives by attempting to cross three lanes in either direction of the road at undesignated crossing points.

Poor Design of the Footbridge

Mr Speaker, the other factor that has led to pedestrians avoiding using the footbridge is its poor design, which is not fit for purpose due to the steep gradient of the stairs and the ramp, as stated in part (b) above.

Security Concerns

Mr Speaker, the footbridge does not have adequate lights or security cameras, thereby making pedestrians vulnerable to attacks by street kids and junkies, especially at night.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutinta: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his responses because just after this question was raised, I was told that two days ago, two more people were bashed by a vehicle at the same spot. So, this demonstrates how serious this issue has become. I am happy that the hon. Minister has highlighted some of the immediate measures that will be put in place to save lives.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister able to highlight when these immediate measures will be implemented on the Great East Road crossing points?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi for that follow-up question.

Mr Speaker, I would like to remind the House that this question came as an urgent question. Otherwise, maybe, some measures may have started being implemented. I can assure the hon. Member that some of the remedial actions that I have stated here will be put in action as soon as possible. However, there are other issues that need to be attended to. I was on site during lunchtime because that is my nature of doing things. Whilst I was there, I was able to confirm some of the things stated in this reply. Even as I was on top of the bridge, people were running across the three lanes with traffic flowing very fast, especially from the eastern direction. I was able to relate with some of the people on site. I saw a young lady using the footbridge, and I could see that her going down the stairs was like torture because she had to take one step at a time, especially in view of some of the dressings in style and I was able to relate that to other people I saw. One of the issues is that in the evening, there is an infestation of junkies who might attack you. People get attacked on the bridge, therefore, they avoid going up the stairs in the evening because of the danger of being attacked.

Mr Speaker, we have been discussing this issue as the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and with my young brother here, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, that we must find ways of slowing down traffic on that section by putting some element of slowing traffic as motorists approach that particular section. Safety measures will be put in place as soon as the consultations are concluded and an agreement between all relevant ministries; the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, the Ministry of Transport and Logistics, and, of course, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development is reached. At least, one of the solutions will be put in place to slow traffic as -motorists approach that part of the road. As to whether we will manage to stop people from running across the road, I think before, there was a barrier between the two roads going in either direction so that even if you cross, you would not be able to go the other side. Maybe, that should also be looked at so that we stop people from being bashed and killed on that stretch.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I was paying attention to the Acting hon. Minister when he was providing details on what should be done in the short term and, obviously, in the long term. This morning, I was driving on that road, and I agree with him that we might be dealing with two challenges on that crossing point. One is obviously the fact that students prefer to just walk across from one side to the other, which means that there is something that has to be done in terms of engagement.

Madam Speaker, since the hon. Minister has spelled out the steps that have to be taken, and the hon. Member who asked the question wanted to know when the steps would be taken, is the hon. Minister engaging the key stakeholders in that particular institution such as the students' union and management because the steps are very clear for both short and long term? There must be something that has to happen for the steps to be accepted. Clearly, the flyover bridge was one of the options, but it is not giving us the outcomes that we require. So, for the benefit of the students, when is the hon. Minister going to engage the various stakeholders so that we can quickly get some output from these particular interventions?

Eng. Milupi: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kamfinsa for the supplementary question.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is right and that is exactly what we intend to do. If you come up with a solution that has not been accepted from those who use the facility, they will find ways of bypassing it. That is why I have said from the Government side, the three ministries, which is the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development that deals with roads in towns and, of course, the Ministry of Transport and Logistics that looks at safety issues, through the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), and the road users, the ones who get bashed and mainly these are students, need to find solutions.

Sir, someone said the stairs are steep so people cannot climb comfortably. That is true, as I witnessed a young lady come down the stairs. However, people would think that the elderly who cannot climb the stairs would get knocked down, but it is actually the young ones because of the attraction to cross quickly and they think they can run fast. So, we have to find ways of stopping that. The only way to do that is to engage with the students so that if for example, we put spikes in the middle of the road so that they do not go to the other side, will they accept? However, if it is a matter of safety, the Government has to act after consultations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

OPENING NEW MARKETING POINTS DURING THE 2025 CROP MARKETING SEASON

274. Mr E. Banda (Muchinga) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

1. whether the Government has any plans to open new marketing points during the 2025 Crop Marketing Season in the following areas in Muchinga Parliamentary Constituency to prevent the harvested maize from going to waste due to the long distances to the nearest depots:

1. Mukopa in Chibale Ward;
2. Masase in Chieftainess Serenje Ward;
3. Kalumbu in Mwenshe Ward; and

1. Nambo in Sancha Ward; and

1. if so, when will the marketing points will be opened, considering that the marketing season is about to open.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that annually, the Government carries out identification and assessment exercises for potential marketing points that are as close to the farmer as possible. This is done to ensure that farmers do not travel long distances to sell their maize. Therefore, depending on the distances between the satellite depots in Mukopa, Masase, Kalumbu and Nambo, the Government will consider putting up more marketing points to cater for the farmers in those areas.

Mr Speaker, as in the response to part (a) of the question, the identified marketing points will be announced once the assessments are completed by mid-May, 2025. This timeline will ensure that farmers have adequate access to markets at the beginning of the 2025 Crop Marketing Season, mitigating the risk of produce going to waste.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr E.  Banda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister’s responses are giving hope but, of course not 100 per cent because he said annually, and as you know, the areas in question have been in existence for a while now. The distance from Mukopa in Chibale Ward to the nearest marketing point is not less than 30 km. Depending on where a farmer comes from, it even exceeds that distance. For instance, Masase is 48 km, Nambo is 35 km plus while Kalumbu is 34 km away and these areas are surrounded by mountains and rivers. Can the hon. Minister assure the people of Muchinga that the mentioned places will be considered as they open new sites so that people do not pay more than K60 per 50 kg bag to take their maize to the market?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, in my response, I said exactly what the hon. Member wants to hear, that consideration will be given. So, those areas will be considered.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kandafula (Serenje): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the good answers.  Maybe, let me take him back. I remember that last time, during the drought, the hon. Minister advised us to indicate the new points to set up depots where people could buy maize. Why can he not consider the same points we submitted to his ministry? The cost of transporting maize to those points will be affordable. Why can the ministry not turn the very points we submitted into crop marketing points?

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, that is a very valid and good point, and it will be looked into.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr E. Banda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, I just want to encourage the hon. Minister of Agriculture. As he promised, we are waiting to start smiling. If he will not do what he promised, we will be crying because our people are really facing a challenge. So, we are very happy that he has promised us, but we will be happier when we see the issue actualised.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL ECONOMY, TRADE AND LABOUR MATTERS ON THE RATIFICATION OF THE MEMBERSHIP TO THE AFRICA50 FUND ARTICLES OF ASSOCIATION FOR PROJECT DEVELOPMENT AND FINANCE

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House adopts the Report of the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters on the Ratification of the Membership to the Africa50 Fund Articles of Association for Project Development and Finance, for the Fourth Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 21^st March, 2025.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as set out under Order No. 206(j) and 207(f) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, your Committee considered the International Agreement on the Membership to the Africa50 Fund Articles of Association for Project Development and Finance.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, let me state that your Committee is in support of the proposal to ratify the agreement. This is because ratifying the Africa50 Fund Articles of Association will reduce Zambia’s reliance on sovereign borrowing as Africa50 provides early-stage project financing. Zambia’s membership to Africa50 could enhance its participation in cross-border infrastructure projects, particularly within the Southern African Development Community (SADC) and Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA). Improved transport, energy and information and communication technology (ICT) infrastructure would boost trade efficiency, support industrialisation and enhance Zambia’s competitiveness as a regional hub.

Mr Speaker, your Committee during its consideration of the agreement came across a number of concerns on which it has made observations and recommendations contained in its report. I will highlight a few.

Mr Speaker, having interacted with various stakeholders, your Committee observed the need to harmonise certain pieces of legislation with the Africa50 Fund Articles of Association to facilitate its effective operation. In view of that, your Committee recommends that a review of various pieces of legislation be conducted once the country ratifies the agreement to avoid operational impediments.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also observed that the agreement, once ratified, may lead to an influx of foreign companies in Zambia, which can overshadow local industries, especially that foreign companies aligned to Africa50 will be exempt from paying taxes. Your Committee is of the view that this may stifle growth of local companies and businesses and impact the revenue of the country negatively. In this regard, it recommends that measures be put in place to ensure that a significant portion of contracts awarded under Africa50 go to local companies to help boost the economy and local industry.

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes with concern that the ratification of the membership to the Africa50 Fund Articles of Association grants Africa50 immunities, tax exemptions, privileges and operational freedoms. In this regard, it recommends that in order to avert potential loss of revenue and mitigate risks associated with joining Africa50, the country needs to carry out a cost-benefit analysis so that it does not lose the much-needed revenue to develop various sectors of the economy.

Mr Speaker, allow me to conclude by stating that your Committee supports the ratification of the membership to the Africa50 Fund Articles of Association for Project Development and Finance and urges the House to do so too. I wish to pay tribute to the stakeholders who interacted with your Committee for the valuable insights they provided. Gratitude also goes to you and the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support rendered to your Committee throughout its deliberations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr J. Chibuye: Now, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Speaker, I want to sincerely thank you for according me an opportunity to second the Motion ably moved by the chairperson of your Committee. In so doing, allow me to comment on a few of your Committee’s observations and recommendations, which the chairperson has not touched on.

Mr Speaker, with regard to dispute resolution mechanisms, your Committee observed that the Africa50 Articles of Association do not contain specific clauses for dispute resolution or breaches of the agreement. This was observed to be a very serious omission. Your Committee also observed that the articles are devoid of specific clauses detailing how a member state can exit or terminate the agreement. In view of that, your Committee made the following recommendations:

1. Zambia should push for amendments to the Africa50 Fund Articles of Association to include specific dispute resolution clauses for arbitration, mediation or, indeed, other formal processes to address potential disagreements or breaches;
2. Zambia should propose the inclusion of a clear exit clause that will allow individual member states to withdraw from the agreement under certain circumstances. This will provide for more flexibility and protect Zambia’s interests in case of unforeseen issues or changes in national priorities; and 
3. given the lack of clear exit clauses in the Africa50 Fund Articles of Association, Zambia should set up robust internal processes to monitor its involvement in Africa50, ensuring it can meet capital clauses and other obligations to avoid the risk of share cancellation.

Mr Speaker, with those few additions, I thank you.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I see no indications for further debate.

Hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, wind up debate.

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chipoka Mulenga) (on behalf of the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane)): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to respond and contribute to the debate on the Report of the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters on the Ratification of Zambia's Membership to the Africa50 Fund Articles of Association for Project Development and Finance.

Mr Speaker, allow me to begin by expressing my gratitude to your Committee for the favourable consideration of the proposal to ratify Zambia's membership to the Africa50 Fund presented to this august House. The fund was ratified by African Finance Ministers in 2013, and its headquarters are in Morocco. The fund was established to help bridge Africa's infrastructure and funding gap by facilitating project development and finance. The Fund aims to address pressing challenges faced by member countries, such as limited development infrastructure and budgetary financing gaps, to be achieved through mobilisation of public and private sector finance as well as investing in bankable infrastructure within and outside Africa.

Mr Speaker, I wish to commend your Committee on the recommendation to conduct cost-benefit analyses on any proposed project after joining the fund. I wish to assure your Committee that the concern is well noted and the ministry will ensure that relevant stakeholders are engaged in undertaking cost-benefit analyses on any proposed projects to avert risks of potential revenue loss for the country.

Mr Speaker, I also take note of your Committee's concerns on the lack of clear dispute resolution mechanisms and specific clauses on how a member state can exit or terminate the agreement, which were also highlighted by the mover. I wish to inform this House that the ministry sought legal opinion from the Office of the Attorney-General and submitted both Articles of Association for review before engaging the Cabinet or Parliament. Notwithstanding, according to the Vienna Convention, the Republic of Zambia, as a sovereign State, reserves the right to withdraw from an international treaty or agreement if continuity of its membership to the association of the aforementioned agreement, for example, is in breach of the immunities and privileges of its foreign policy objectives.

Mr Speaker, I have also noted your Committee's observation on the need for Zambia to build strong diplomatic ties with other member countries to ensure that its interests are protected given that major decisions made under the Africa50 Fund require a two-thirds majority. The ministry is agreeable to the recommendation. Indeed, the Republic intends to collaborate with other member states that have utilised financing instruments under the fund, as an example of peer-to-peer learning exchange.

Mr Speaker, the recommendation of your Committee on the need to review and harmonise certain pieces of legislation to align them with the Africa50 Fund Articles of Association for Project Development and Finance to facilitate effective operations once the country ratifies the agreement is well noted. The Government will continue reviewing relevant legislation to ensure necessary alignment.

Mr Speaker, as we are focusing on growing our economy, we wish no affiliation to any international body to affect the country in a negative way. There was an observation that ratification of the fund agreement would lead to an influx of foreign companies into Zambia that might overshadow local industries, especially since foreign companies aligned to the fund would be exempted from paying taxes. I wish to state that Part II of the Investment, Trade and Business Development Act No 18, 2022 has a component that outlines an investment protection and promotion agreement of infant industries in which both parties shall agree on development and investment matters with foreign entities. Furthermore, the fund is just an additional avenue for mobilising resources for investment in Zambia more than competition.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I urge the House to support the ratification of Zambia's membership to the Africa50 Fund for Project Development and Finance, as that has the potential to enhance regional trade among member states and also provide a platform to leverage the much-needed infrastructure development and project financing for the country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Sefulo: Mr Speaker, clearly, the spirit of adjourning sine die is with us. I expected Hon. Kang’ombe to debate this subject seeing as we do not have Hon. Kafwaya and Hon. Kampyongo, who are usual debaters on subjects of international interest,in the House. My younger hon. Member has also been hit by the same spirit of adjourning sine die.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Question put and agreed.

FACILITATE THE AMENDMENT OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to facilitate the amendment of the Local Government Act No. 2 of 2019 in order to provide for payment of allowances to members of Ward Development Committees (WDCs). 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, allow me to thank your office for allowing this topic on paying allowances to members of WDCs to be presented to Parliament.

Mr Speaker, I want to make it very clear that all of us who represent constituencies, currently have on-going projects that require speedy implementation. We will be going back to our constituencies over the weekend. We will find that the preliminary work has been done by members of the WDCs. Who are members of the WDCs? These are individuals who ensure that projects are generated by zonal representatives. In my constituency and other respective constituencies, we have members who are currently interacting with members of the public, generating projects required to be implemented through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) or the local authority. They are our partners, and are individuals who have volunteered to work with us since the structure was identified in the Local Governments Act.

Mr Speaker, the request coming from them is that if the law allows them to perform so many duties, it goes without saying that we need to find a way to motivate them for the work that they do. Unfortunately, in the Local Government Act, which is the law that creates WDCs, there is a provision that does not allow the ministry to pay them any form of allowance because of the restriction in the law. So, today, the person standing here is asking the Government to initiate the amendment. I cannot move the amendment because the law that has to be amended has an implication on the National Budget. Any amendment that has an implication on the National Budget, can only be initiated by the Government. If it were up to me, I would have presented an amendment today.

Mr Speaker, my request today is that since this responsibility is on the hon. Minister responsible for the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, working with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, to bring the amendment. I request that we change the law to allow members of the WDC to draw an allowance. A simple example is that if someone has to move from his /her respective zone to the boma to transact activities of the WDC, under the current law, such a person cannot be paid an allowance because it would be an illegal payment considering what is provided for in the Local Government Act. I am aware that this request has been coming for the last couple of years, and people are asking when the law will be amended so that people doing the work at the Local Government level through the WDC can draw an allowance that will motivate them to go the extra mile.

Mr Speaker, I want to simplify the request because others might be asking what the hon. Member of Parliament is proposing. I am happy that the Leader of Government Business in the House is present. The request I have from the people is if the law can be amended. That law, unfortunately, does not allow members of the W DC to draw an allowance. Should that provision remain forever? That provision can be amended. Can the person presenting today move an amendment to the law? Unfortunately, I cannot move the amendment. The only one who can do so is the hon. Minister responsible because it borders on public expenditure.

Mr Speaker, as I stand here today, it is the second time I am bringing this proposal. I am confident that with the many responsibilities that we have assigned to the members of the WDC, perhaps it is about time we identified a way of motivating our workers. How do we motivate them? It is by encouraging them that when they attend meetings, they will be paid the same way members of the CDF Committee are paid. The CDF Committee members get an allowance. Similarly, if one is a member of a Government Committee, some allowances are paid to him/her. What is so difficult about doing the same to this special group?

As I stand here today, the group is already calling, saying, “Hon. Member of Parliament, the project proposals from all the respective wards in Kamfinsa are ready. We want you to consider them when you come back for the period 2025.” Such individuals require a certain level of motivation. Unfortunately, there is a restriction in the law. So, what do we do as lawmakers? We have to ask the Government to facilitate and bring to Parliament amendments to the Local Government Act. It is now the responsibility of the Government to review the submission I am making today because it is not a harmful proposal but an enabling proposal that will recognise the work that our supporting lower structures, called the WDCs, are performing.

Mr Speaker, I do not wish to exhaust my eight minutes because I think that the principle has been established and is very simple. We have workers supporting our work and councils have to assign duties to some workers. Unfortunately, they cannot be paid. So, what do we do? Do we bury our heads in the sand and say, “This is practically impossible,” or because of our privileged position today, we simply amend the law? I think that the hon. Members of Parliament gathered here this evening, and those not present today agree that there is a partner who has carried the Government's effort through the substructures. I am confident that I speak on behalf of members of the WDC, not only in Kamfinsa but across all the 156 constituencies. The desire is for the Government to facilitate the amendment of the Local Government Act so that our people can draw an allowance for the work they are performing.

Mr Speaker, the people of Kamfinsa do submit, and I want to thank your office once again, for allowing me to bring back the proposal to the Government.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Fube: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the proposer of the Motion and appreciate the realities that he has spoken to. I also want to second the proposals that he has put forward and to adopt them as mine. I also want to thank your office for making sure that even when the proposal has been brought forth several times, it has seen the light of the day today.

Mr Speaker, Ward Development Committees (WDCs) are a creature of the law. The Local Government Act No.2 of 2019, supports the creation of WDCs. Section 36 of the Act talks about the composition the WDCs and these are not structures that we should overlook. Section 37 talks about the functions of WDCs and it further gives them big responsibilities in a ward. The Constitution, from Articles 148 to 152, encourages decentralisation. Further, the WDC appears as a creature of the highest law of the land. The Local Government Act allows the WDC to generate and submit a project list. If we scrutinise the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Committee meetings, they are supposed to be based on WDCs' submissions signed by the chairperson of that particular ward.

Mr Speaker, I am navigating through all that to establish that the WDCs are a creature of the law. Secondly, they perform onerous tasks. Given that background, it is of the essence to note that the functions that range from (a) to (p) in Section 37 of the Local Government Act are huge. Among the functions are preparing annual ward development reports and monitoring and evaluating ward development projects beyond the CDF. One of the issues, also strongly linked to the law, is that WDCs should collect revenue, levies, and fees on behalf of a local authority on appointment by the council's resolution.

Let me give an example of my constituency, which has twenty-four wards and is divided into three parts.

Mr Mabika: Only.

Mr Fube: There are twenty-four wards. How many do you have?

Mr Speaker, my constituency is divided in three parts. We have swamps, the mainland and the island. However, for me as area Member of Parliament to go to the swamps, I spend two drums of petrol to access three wards that is Chishiba, Luangwa and Bumba. Now, looking at that scenario –

Mr Nkombo: Vote for delimitation!

Mr Fube: The hon. Minister responsible for this particular issue is disturbing me.

Mr Speaker, am I protected from –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are protected.

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, when we look at that scenario, it means that members of the Ward Development Committee (WDC) cover more than 400 km on a speed boat. When they use road transport, they cover 264 km to reach Katesha. Now, these are individuals who are not employed, but perform Government work according to the functions laid down in Section 37. Sometime back during the census, we lobbied that WDC members be given things like bicycles, but that was not properly resolved. Hon. Members of Parliament part away with money from their pockets to cushion members of the WDCs who cover long kilometres when taking reports to the Boma or district.

 

Mr Speaker, it is for this reason that we need to look at these human beings who are working so hard. We are not saying that the resources are not available. I know that the mover of the Motion suggested something but there is money called the administrative fee under the CDF. When we had the CDF structure at the provincial level, we used to part away with something like K18,000 for that particular structure, which does not do as much work as the WDCs do. So, given that scenario, we want to navigate –

Mr Speaker, I know that the question will be where will the money be coming from? There are 1,800 and something wards in the country, but we will create more wards. So, as we do that, we should be resilient and courageous enough as a country to reward in a small way, human beings who add value to a classroom block and maternity annex to stand, to a canal to be built and for a police post to stand because they recognise the needs of a particular ward. The community speaks through them before the information reaches the CDF Committee at the constituency level.

Mr Speaker, we know that this is an issue that is non-controversial and even non-contentious. I know that hon. Members of Parliament who have gone through the problems that I am highlighting cannot go against such a non-contentious issue. I think, it is the reality of today, tomorrow and the past.

Mr Speaker, I would like to urge hon. Members of Parliament gathered here today to support this particular Motion with all the energy that is needed because it is a Motion for the country. It is not a Motion for a particular constituency, but a Motion for all of us to implement the CDF as we speak about it. So, it starts from somewhere and hon. Members are the generators of the projects implemented using the CDF.

Mr Speaker, given that information, I would like to rest my case on behalf of the people of Chilubi as I heavily support the Motion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for according me the opportunity on behalf of the people of Chama North to add a few words to this particular Motion. Before I do that, allow me to thank the mover of the Motion, Hon. Kang’ombe, the Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, and also my brother, Hon. Fube, the Member of Parliament for Chilubi.

Mr Speaker, as the mover and seconder of this Motion already stated, this is a non-contentious Motion. I expect both hon. Members from the left and right to support such progressive Motions, which will help our people. As hon. Members of Parliament, we all have Ward Development Committees (WDCs) and we know the challenges our colleagues have been facing. The WDCs play a key role in the decentralisation agenda. For decentralisation to be meaningful, it is important for us to identify the bottlenecks. What are the bottlenecks faced by members of the WDCs in the course of discharging their duties? There are so many challenges our people are facing. Therefore, this Motion has come at the right time for us to make a bold decision and ensure that members of the WDCs are motivated.

Mr Speaker, currently, members of the WDCs are just volunteers and it is not easy for them at all. Before the CDF Committee deliberates on any subject matter, it depends on the information from members of the WDCs. So, if they give the Committee half-baked information, this can affect the effective implementation of the CDF. So, it is important to deal with the matter. We must be mindful that costs can be there, but they can be justified because if members of the WDCs are able to do their work effectively, even the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development is going to be successful, and the country as a whole.

Mr Speaker, those of us who come from rural areas have big wards, and this is extremely difficult. When we ask people in various wards if members of the WDCs had been in those areas, the response is in the negative. Sometimes, we really sympathise with the members of the WDCs because they do not have a means of transport, not even a bicycle. Surely, I feel that apart from giving them an allowance, we can give each ward a motor bicycle and that will go a long way in motivating them so that their work is not half-baked.

Mr Speaker, almost every month or every two weeks, we see council officers having capacity-building workshops, but we do not see capacity building workshops for members of the WDCs, yet this is where the information starts from. Now, if we cannot capacitate members of the WDCs, we should not expect their quality of work to be 100 per cent. It is a fact that some WDCs may not have the capacity to identify projects according to priority. You will find that in a particular ward, the first priority should be water, but because we have not built capacity in the WDCs, they will indicate a school being   the first priority because, maybe, they do not have the capacity to identify priority projects.

So, we need to do more. Apart from giving them an allowance, I think, it is important that the ministry builds the capacity of members of the WDCs. The Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development holds workshops and seminars for local government officers. I think, it should also try by all means to build capacity in the WDCs. That way, the quality of work will be good and the Decentralisation Policy is going to be a success.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, I would like to say that I know that cost is a determining factor because we have so many WDCs, but the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development can regulate the meetings of these committees. It is not like anyone can just wake up and say, “I want to have a meeting there”. The meetings must be regulated and if that happens, the issue of cost may not arise.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I want to fully support this non-contentious Motion so that our people out there who are doing a commendable job can be motivated in one way or another.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Looking at how things are going, is there anyone opposing the Motion?

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: If there is none, then the hon. Minister can respond.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to respond to a well-moved Motion by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, Eng. Kang’ombe. Let me thank him for this Motion. I also thank the seconder, the hon. Member for Chilubi, Mr Fube. I also want to state that there could have been no better seconder of this Motion other than Mr Fube, who represents what he calls a 400-km-long constituency. He laments the fact that distance is an issue. This is why this Government has endeavoured to make it easy for our citizens to work.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: So, Chilubi, going by its vast size, can even qualify to have three constituencies.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, in thanking Hon. Kang’ombe, I also want to state that the Act that he seeks to amend came into effect in 2019. When that law was enacted in 2019, those who were in office before us did not see the need to even operationalise it.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the Ward Development Committees (WDCs) came into existence in 2021, when the Government changed. I do not want to guess wildly, but I know that the reason that Act was not operationalised is because of such issues, which require a prudent way of looking after those who are part of the interests and affairs of our country.

Mr Speaker, when we took office, we facilitated the election of zone leaders and composition of the WDCs. We were the first ones who walked the talk on decentralisation. We did not only walk the talk on decentralisation, but matched it with resources called the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which requires that the development agenda be instigated by the people based on their needs and requirements.

Mr Speaker, unfortunately, a side issue is that the manner in which the WDCs were formulated took a political turn, which is fine. There was so much interference from political players, including ourselves. I want to confess here and now that just like members of the Community Welfare Assistance Committees (CWACs), which do a commendable job under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services in serving this country, even the members of the WDCs require to be remunerated, especially for facilitating logistics such as transportation and food.

I respect you, sir (pointed at Mr Kang’ombe), for knowing clearly that we are talking about a money-related Act and that changing that law has cost implications. I am very thankful to you for recognising that fact.

Mr Speaker, can a law be changed and put on the shelf? The answer is that you would be shooting a dead horse. The reason those who were in office before us did not put that law into operation is precisely that the above-mentioned issues were going to come up. When we took office, under the leadership of the President, the first thing we did was to attend to the welfare of our Councillors who, by law, are still volunteers. The Local Government Act is very clear that members of the WDCs are part-time workers. In recognising that, we are not blind to the fact that they do some work. We put a restriction that they must meet not more than four times in a year because of the cost implication. So, I agree with the hon. Member for Kamfinsa that something must be done to incentivise people who are working.

Mr Speaker, because of brevity of time, I want to say that the Local Government Act, under Section 37, outlines the functions of the WDCs. I urge hon. Colleagues to read that section when they have time, because I am short of time. I want to say as much as I can to justify why it is necessary to take certain steps. Whereas amending that Act is a necessary step to take, the Government is not yet prepared to do it now. It is something that we must do at an opportune time, and it will be done.

Mr Speaker, the WDCs have seventeen functions. I want to put it to you that because of who I am, because I respect hon. Members of Parliament, I had a chance to confer with the mover of the Motion. We sat down and looked at the Act together and I explained things to him. I said, “Let us go through the functions of the WDCs de jure or by law”. By law, there are seventeen functions, which are too numerous for me to elucidate now. However, after we sat down the two of us, it was very clear that there are three or four functions that members of the WDCs are actively involved in. How do we remunerate a person who performs four out of seventeen functions of the job description? I think, that is a conversation we must have as a House concerning those citizens who deliberately decided to get involved in the development of the country. The President of this country has decided to involve various people in the development agenda. You will recall that the President said that we have taken money to the district and sub-district levels to take it away from so, so, so in Lusaka.

Mr Mubika: Big criminals!

Mr Nkombo: It has been taken away from ‘big some things’ in Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, the same people on your left-hand side said that councils had no capacity to manage larger amounts under the CDF. I put it to you that today part of the CDF that we took to the people is what is keeping the WDCs busy. Yes, K36.1 million goes down to the people and there is an administrative component therein. Should we pluck funds from there in order to give members of the WDCs allowances when they sit to deal with issues that affect our people? We must collectively agree if we have to pluck resources out of the CDF.

Mr Speaker, in a similar manner, and I stand to be corrected, I think the hon. Member for Kamfinsa may have been the one who raised the Motion about giving Councillors a little bit more in allowances, and we agreed. After we agreed, we said that at that moment, we were not ready, but at an opportune time, we would do it. When the President, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and myself sat in Livingstone, we said that now that the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF) has been overshadowed by the CDF, why not shelve the 20 per cent component reserved for capital projects under the LGEF? We came here and asked hon. Members if we could do it, and we unanimously agreed on it. Today, Councillors are getting K3,000 more than they were getting when we came to power in 2021.

Mr Speaker, there are more than 1,600 Councillors in this country If we add the K3,000 that we increased to the K3,000 that we found in place, it is K6,000 per Councillor. That is a big amount of money. Let us ask ourselves a question now because the devil is in the details. How many warm-bodied WDC members do we have? Have we done the arithmetic on how many WDCs are in each ward of the more than 1,600 wards? How much are we going to remunerate them for the work they do, at least, on a quarterly basis? When we discussed with my hon. Colleague, we agreed that the WDCs only sit four times in a year. So, they must be facilitated. We are pushing an open door. We are in agreement that there is no free lunch. The work that WDCs do is very important, and we need to remunerate them. If we do not remunerate them, we will contend with the things that I am hearing as feedback, which I pray to my God are not true, to the effect that WDCs use their positions to extort money from applicants for projects, loans and co-operatives. To circumvent that, it is prudent that we do this. However, it should be done at the right time.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, although one may say that it is a different argument, it is not a secret, and it should never be a secret, that we inherited a damaged economy. Earlier today, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development spoke about the two big outfits on the Copperbelt Province. Using my own words, I shouted to the hon. Minister to tell them that it is not like switching on a light bulb to improve something. When a bulb is switched on, one sees the light like in the story of creation, “Let there be light” and then there was light. No. The economic wheels must be improved systematically and gradually. When we stabilise, we will give them what they want.

Mr Speaker, in summary, the proposal is something that must be done in the future, not now.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. Colleague from Chilubi for ably seconding the proposal and the hon. Member for Chama North, Mr Mtayachalo, for simplifying the Motion. Of course, I want to pick on the thoughts of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development for supporting the Motion that has been brought to the House today.

Mr Speaker, I am confident that our role as Members of Parliament is to approve budgetary allocations. We will perform that duty when the time comes to allocate resources. I am confident that with the sentiments from the hon. Minister, a provision can be made within the context of what may be available for this proposal to eventually come to fruition.

Mr Speaker, on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa, I thank the august House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

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BILLS

REPORT STAGE

The Geological and Minerals Development Bill, 2024

Report adopted.

Third Reading on Friday, 28^th March, 2025

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read the third time and passed:

The Plant Health Bill, 2024

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ADJOURNMENT

 

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1836 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 28^th March, 2025.

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