Thursday, 6^th March, 2025

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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No Quorum

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I think, we should all remind ourselves of what the requirements of our Standing Orders are in terms of the decorum and etiquette of the House. In the recent past, Presiding Officers have been coming to the House that has no quorum. That is in breach of our Standing Orders. In particular, I will politely remind all hon. Members of the provisions of Standing Order No. 214(2) (a):

“(2) A Member shall observe the following rules of parliamentary etiquette:

(a) A Member shall be in the House or in a meeting room a few minutes before the appointed time for commencement of the Sitting of the House and after health breaks.”

However, it is now becoming a habit, whereby we come here, sit and wait for the hon. Members to walk in at their leisure. This is not acceptable. It is very easy for us to enforce rules.  If a Member comes late, we can close the doors and then, he or she misses the Sitting.

Hon. Members, as we all know, Parliamentary Business takes precedence over everything else. So, we need to ensure that we are in the House on time. For the hon. Members who are not here, both on my right and left, that is unacceptable. If I become strict and close the doors, do not blame me. This is a gentle and polite reminder to draw your attention to our own Standing Orders. We have business on the Order Paper that we need to transact within the time that is allocated, and hon. Members would desire to be given enough time to debate. Therefore, if we come late, it means the time for debate will also be curtailed.

I am actually disappointed to say the least, hon. Members. If you want me to do things for you like mangoes and what have you, you will also have to do your part. Up to now, quorum has not been formed.  Has it? We still have eight more Members remaining.  I think a Circular should be drafted. Clerks at the Table, we need a Circular to remind the hon. Members of this.

Thank you very much.

Hon. Members: We are innocent. Repeat when they come.

Madam Speaker: That is why I am saying, I am speaking to the ones who are already converted. The ones who are always late are not in this House yet.

Ms Kasune and Mr Mtolo rose.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Ministers, please, let us stay in so that we do not collapse the quorum further. We need to start. Since we have two in one, we have formed a quorum.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

PRESENCE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM KAUNDA SQUARE SECONDARY SCHOOL

Madam Speaker: I have three announcements to make, now that we have a quorum.

Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Kaunda Square Secondary School, Lusaka District.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

PRESENCE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM PESTALOZZI EDUCATION CENTRE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to also recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Pestalozzi Education Centre, Lusaka District.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

POSTPONEMENT OF MINISTERIAL STATEMENT BY THE MINISTER OF MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that this week, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development was supposed to present a Ministerial Statement on the statistics of financial support to small-scale miners issued with mining licences. However, due to unforeseen circumstances, the Ministerial Statement will instead be presented next week.

I thank you.

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

URGENT MATTER WITHOUT NOTICE RAISED BY MR DAKA, HON. MEMBER FOR MSANZALA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MR MTOLO, ON UNLAWFUL SALE OF MAIZE BY FOOD RESERVE AGENCY WORKERS

Mr Daka (Msanzala): On an Urgent Matter Without Notice, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: An Urgent Matter Without Notice is raised.

Mr Daka: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise an Urgent Matter Without Notice, on behalf of the good people of Msanzala. The Urgent Matter Without Notice is directed to the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Madam Speaker, this morning, we woke up to a very sad development in Petauke and Msanzala. The workers from the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) are conniving with briefcase buyers and selling the maize brought to our depot for our people’s benefit, to briefcase buyers. The FRA workers are stealing. They are stealing maize and selling it to briefcase buyers at a high cost, causing our people to go hungry. What is the Government going to do to stop this tendency?

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Msanzala.

For me, that sounds like theft, a police case. Can these people be reported to the police and brought to book, because what they are doing is actually not only making people go hungry but also tarnishing the image of the Government. Please, hon. Minister of Agriculture, do something. There is no way that people can steal maize while we look on. People are going hungry and complaining that there is hunger while maize is going into the wrong hands. The police should come in and do their work.

However, hon. Member, that Urgent Matter Without Notice is inadmissible because it does not qualify. Nevertheless, it is important that the police do their work and arrest those people for theft, because theft is a criminal offence under the Penal Code.

That was the only Urgent Matter Without Notice raised.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

GUIDELINES FOR SUSTAINABLE UTILISATION OF WETLANDS IN ZAMBIA

The Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to thank you for allowing me to present this Ministerial Statement on the development of guidelines for the sustainable utilisation of wetlands in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, in our country, wetlands account for approximately 19 per cent of the country’s total area, and they comprise natural lakes, man-made lakes, open river channels, floodplains, swamps, marshes and dambos. A total of eight wetlands have so far been designated as wetlands of international importance in Zambia. These are: the Kafue Flats, the Bangweulu Swamps, the Barotse Floodplains, the Luangwa Floodplains, the Busanga Swamps, the Lukanga Swamps, Lake Mweru-Wantipa and Lake Tanganyika. These important ecosystems provide benefits and ecosystem services, such as fresh water supply, food and building materials, flood control and groundwater recharge and nutrient recycling. Furthermore, millions of Zambians directly depend on wetlands for agriculture, fisheries, livestock rearing and much more through wetlands-dependent industries, like tourism, commercial agriculture and water transportation. For example, the Kafue Flats provide approximately 50 per cent of the nation's hydro-electricity, 44 per cent of water supply to Lusaka’s domestic and industrial water users, nearly 90 per cent of sugarcane for domestic and export markets and support an estimated 20 per cent of the national cattle herd and production of maize.

Madam Speaker, regardless of the importance of wetlands ecosystems to Zambia’s socio-economic development, the country has not been spared from the threats and challenges faced by wetlands. Zambia’s wetlands face degradation caused by pollution, unsustainable land use practices, invasive alien species, climate change, encroachment, fires, overfishing, poaching as well as an increase in unplanned human settlements. The issue of climate change cannot be overemphasised, since Zambia recently witnessed a country-wide prolonged drought, of which the effects can still be felt across the country today. The impact of the drought, and other threats to wetlands resources, cannot be overlooked as it creates a high demand for land in wetlands for investment, such as agriculture. So, wetlands remain potential eco-systems for investments in the midst of droughts. In that regard, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through my ministry, has developed guidelines for the sustainable utilisation of wetlands in the country, and monitoring and quality assurance procedures. To ensure that the guidelines meet the desires of all stakeholders, they were subjected to consultations with local communities and committees that work on issues concerning wetlands, including the National Technical Committee on Biodiversity and the National Steering Committee on Biodiversity. The opportunities that the guidelines will create cannot be underestimated.

Madam Speaker, the guidelines will support the current National Wetlands Policy by sufficiently providing for an effective co-ordination mechanism, since there is currently no specific law designed for wetlands conservation and protection in the country. We have various policies and laws that cater only for specific sectors that have a connection with wetlands. Therefore, in the medium-term to long-term, the country will benefit from having well-managed wetland resources that can support sustainable development and improve livelihoods. That will further contribute to the goals of the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) of the Government of the Republic of Zambia which, under the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, state that Zambia’s vision of attaining a prosperous medium-income status by 2030 emphasises development that is anchored on sustainable environment, eco-systems and natural resource management principles.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, this year and beyond, the Government, through my ministry, will continue seeking partnerships with line ministries, non-government organisations (NGOs) and civil society organisations (CSOs) to fully actualise the guidelines as quickly as possible so that we can save our wetlands.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement presented by the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, my question is specifically on the Bangweulu Swamps. The hon. Minister put it rightly in terms of the benefits that the ministry is providing to the people of Zambia. I would like to find out if the Government has come up with a specific programme to create jobs in areas that have wetlands. The fact is that there are wetlands in Luapula Province and part of the Northern Province which can be used to create many jobs for the people of Zambia.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, programmes are being worked out to ensure that people who live in wetland areas do not abuse the wetlands. As you may know, wetlands can be used for farming during a drought. Even just recently during the drought the country experienced, there was a programme under the Ministry of Agriculture and the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services developed to ensure that communities around wetlands were given inputs for farming.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has highlighted the main wetlands and so on and so forth. We have many other wetlands, although small, that are critical when it comes to water recharge areas for streams and rivers, such as the Lwenge River, where the Kafue River begins in Mushindamo. Where the Kafue River flows into Copperbelt Province, there are many small, but important wetlands that are water recharge areas. I want to find out what plan the ministry has for managing the small wetlands.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, as I indicated in the statement, about 19 per cent of the land area in Zambia is covered by wetlands. That is almost 20 per cent, which is quite something. Over the years, there has been degradation of wetlands. The ministry has begun sensitising people on what wetlands are and how they can be protected and utilised. I have mentioned that there are specific wetlands that have been designated as areas of international importance, but that does not mean that they are the only significant ones. As the hon. Member articulated in his question, the truth is that people in many districts and constituencies do not even understand that they live in wetland areas. One is not supposed to construct a house in such areas, as is the case some places. However, people are building residential houses in dambo or swampy areas. Those are wetlands that are not supposed to be used for such purposes.

Madam Speaker, as the ministry responsible for the policy on wetlands, we have discovered that many of our citizens do not really understand what a wetland is and how it must be utilised. Therefore, a lot of work has been done over the years in that regard, one of which is the formulation of guidelines. So, in the immediate-term, we have developed the guidelines on wetlands. We are hoping that we can sensitise our communities widely by, firstly, coming to the Parliamentarians so that they can understand and appreciate the guidelines and help the Government with knowledge-sharing in their constituencies on protecting wetlands. Secondly, on identification, the truth of the matter is that we have big wetlands in this country, which, even though they are not internationally recognised, can be recognised at the national level, protected and used accordingly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the information. she has talked about the degradation of the wetlands and the coming up of guidelines by her ministry to mitigate this situation, which we hope will protect those essential areas that help regenerate our environment.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services is giving inputs to our farmers to produce winter maize and other related crops in the same wetlands. How is her ministry liaising with the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services? I ask because I have seen that the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources has come up with guidelines to protect the wetlands and also supporting agricultural activities in the same wetlands. How is the crossline co-ordination and having a common line policy for us to get the best for mother Zambia?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that supplementary question. Firstly, we acknowledge that, indeed, the subject of natural resources, which includes wetlands, is a sector that is found in many other sectors. It is a topic or an issue found in various ministries such as the Ministry of Tourism, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, the Ministry of Agriculture, and so on and so forth.  Of course, to co-ordinate all the natural resources programmes and activities in a good manner, we are, as a ministry, the holder of a policy on natural resources. So, we have promoted co-ordination and co-operation with all these sector ministries, and we have a National Technical Committee on Biodiversity, which takes into account all the various stakeholders. That is why the guidelines were done not only by the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources alone, but in consultation with all the major stakeholders.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to ask a question. Some wetlands are very close to streams, rivers and lakes, such as the Bangweulu Wetlands and many more that are along the Kafue River. The quality of water in those wetlands is affected by the rivers they are closer to, like the Kafue River. Recently, there was that acid pollution. The hon. Minister here is telling us that the ministry is looking at sustainable utilisation of the wetlands. Obviously, for those wetlands that are along the Kafue River, there will not be sustainable utilisation because they are polluted. I saw that when a group of hon. Ministers visited Chambishi Metals Plc, which polluted the river. They were all celebrating when the owner of the mine apologised and said that they would be checking the pollution regularly. So, I want to find out from the hon. Minister what sustainable or serious interventions the ministry will put in place to ensure that in future, such an occurrence does not happen., The contamination of the river has affected the people of the Copperbelt in Wusakile and Ngabwe as all the fish is dead.  I asked this question because I have seen that the people who are new into mining and discharge the slurry do not have filter plants. This is what caused the bursting of the tailings dam to discharge acid into the Kafue River.

Madam Speaker, when you go to Mopani Copper Mines Plc, there is a filter plant and Mindolo Dam. So, when the mine discharges the slurry into the dam, the water is filtered three times every day. The water that is discharged into the dam is purified and the mine makes sure that it is safe to support life. Samples are taken three times every day to ensure the water has no acidic content. So, the water in Mindolo Dam, even when it goes into the river, it is safe water that can support life. Most of the rivers and streams that affect some of the wetlands are near mining activities. So, what serious interventions is the hon. Minister considering putting it in place?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that important question, except that it is in two parts. The first part of the hon. Member’s question is talking about the sustainable use of wetlands and that rivers that are next to wetlands are causing the water to be polluted or compromised in terms of quality. In the second part of the question, he went on to talk about the pollution of rivers or wetlands as a result of mining activities being near the rivers. So, I think that he was talking about the pollution of sources of rivers, including wetlands by mining activities. I am now being made to delve into mining. All I can say is that we have a national technical group of professionals who sit to look at all those issues from various sectors that are dealing with issues of water sources, local Government, and all the important ministries including the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

Madam Speaker, concerning the specific question the hon. Member asked, all I can say is that the hon. Minister responsible came on the Floor and informed this House of the immediate steps that the Government is taking to ensure that, first of all, the water is clean and safe for people and secondly, to avoid future pollution by the mines. Let me also state that these guidelines that have been provided will help to alleviate some of the problems that we are facing today. We hope that in the long run, we will come up with legislation because these are just guidelines so that we can strengthen our rules and the protection of natural resources.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Madam Speaker, I understand that 40 per cent of the wildlife species, live in the wetlands. How many of the wetlands that we are endowed with as a country are internationally important according to the Ramsar Convention?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I did not get the question clearly. May the hon. Member repeat his question.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Masaiti, kindly repeat your question.

Mr Katambo: Madam Speaker, I started by saying that 40 per cent of the wildlife species live in the wetlands. The hon. Minister listed quite a number of wetlands that we have or are endowed with as a country, Zambia. How many of these wetlands that Zambia is blessed with are internationally important and recognised by the Ramsar Convention?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, I would not know, off the cuff, how many of the species that Zambia is endowed with in various wetlands of our country have been recognised internationally. All I can state is that we are party to the convention on the biosystems of the international world.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the topic on how our wetlands should be managed is very important. I wish to tell the hon. Minister that the wetlands are in specific districts of Zambia where we have officers from the local authorities and the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources. I think there are also other key Government officials who are there to help manage the wetlands.

Madam Speaker, has the ministry put in place a wetland management team or committee at local level where the wetlands are? I do not think wetlands are all over the place. They are located in specific places within Zambia. So, do we have a certain level of coordination at local level that ensures that wetlands are managed?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, we do have Wetland Sub-Committees at national, provincial and district levels. I wish to inform hon. Members that we are now pursuing a decentralisation policy. Some of the functions at national level are already being moved to the district level. Since district councils are agents of the Ministry of Land and Natural Resources in the management of land, sub-committees at district level are expected to protect the important natural resources, known as wetlands.

Madam Speaker, like I said earlier, we need to do more sensitisation to the Zambian public so that they understand and appreciate what God has given them in form of natural resources. They also need to understand how the natural resources can be protected. Suffice to say, it is for that reason the ministry has come up with guidelines. In those guidelines, the public can also be educated through their local authorities on how best the wetlands can be utilised, how they can be protected from pollution, and also, the aspect of monitoring. That way, we will not have situations where people will be building on wetlands. 

Madam Speaker, just here in Lusaka, we saw His Excellency the President and Her Honour the Vice-President visiting families that have been affected by floods.  It is sad that the people of Lusaka, Chongwe and various districts across the country, built in dambos and once we experience heavy rain, their homes get flood. This is because they were not advised or they did not understand the disadvantages of building in such areas.  However, if they had known, they would not make mistakes of building big and beautiful houses in the dambos.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Eng. Daka (Chadiza): Madam Speaker, we take note that the hon. Minister has come up with guidelines to protect wetlands and we appreciate it. However, the people of Chadiza would want to find out if the hon. Minister has any intentions of restoring some of the critical wetlands that have been damaged due to illegal mining activities.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, it is true that a number of the wetlands have suffered degradation and abuse by human beings. Like I said, part of the problem has been ignorance of the importance of wetlands by our people. This is why leaders have to do a lot of work to educate the people on the importance of wetlands.

Madam Speaker, suffice to say that over the years, there has been some level of lawlessness in the country. It is the reason His Excellency the President declared that his Government will not allow cadreism from day one. What did not want people to use their political party or positions to assume power? He did not want people to be above the law and think that the police or those tasked with the enforcement of laws cannot touch them.  That was simply to help the country get back to the rule of law.

We need to agree as citizens and leaders of this country that we have a problem. We need to know that that problem did not start yesterday. It has a history. Therefore, we need to forget about its history and start talking about the present.  We need to start thinking of what we do together as citizens and leaders to ensure that we build a nation based on the rule of law, regardless of where one comes from and which political party one is affiliated to.

Madam Speaker, in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Region, Zambia is behind with basic hygiene.  We are rejecting them. If we help each other, we will be helping the whole nation.  Today, we are here but tomorrow, will not be here. So, what kind of Zambia do we want to have? Let us all obey the law. It does not matter whether one is an investor, be it a Zambian or international investor, the law should play its course.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to ask a question.

Madam Speaker, the Barotse floodplain which is one of the wetlands the hon. Minister mentioned in her statement stretches all the way from Ikeleng’i, Chavuma up to Sesheke. It has a lot of inhabitancy. When people hear about protecting wetlands, what comes to their minds is that there is a list of disallowed activities. In fact, my own village, Namweti, is located in the wetlands.

Madam Speaker, given that there is a possibility of people misunderstanding what protecting important national areas versus them getting their survival from living in the wetlands, is her ministry planning to engage further key stakeholders such as hon. Members of Parliament, Councillors and Council Chairpersons so that questions can be answered at local level. Are there any plans for such further engagements?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the very important question.

Madam Speaker, let me start by saying that educating the masses and getting them to be aware about the very important subject we are discussing today is a matter of life and death. In the last season, Zambia experienced the worst drought. I will tell you that many of us may not even understand why or how. It is simply because we did not heed the early voices when people talked about climate change. They told us to stop cutting trees carelessly. The answer was tizadya chani, meaning ‘what are we going to eat?’ The result of tizadya chani or ‘what are we going to eat?’ was a drought. So, what do we do? Zambians, today, are lucky that they have a President like Mr Hakainde Hichilema (HH), who has kept them alive. Otherwise, the drought was so dangerous and bad; we were going to die, many of us.

Madam Speaker, so what am I saying? I like not just the question but also the information that the hon. Member has given to educate us. We need to educate each other. The truth of the matter, I will speak for myself, is that I have come to appreciate and understand the importance of wetlands, because somebody has taught me about them. My directors of natural resources have taught me. When I went to back to my constituency, I discovered that Chongwe has a number of wetlands. On some of the wetlands, people have even built schools. You see, sometimes, we do things out of ignorance. So, we need to share this information. We need to alert everybody. We also need to educate Parliamentarians on this matter, so that when they go back to their constituencies, they can pass on that information. So, I thank the hon. Member for the suggestions. My officers from the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources are here, and some of them are listening. So, we will come up with programmes for Parliament, and I hope Madam Speaker will allow us so that this important information is shared.

Zambia is a lucky country, Madam Speaker, but we do not know how lucky we are. We do not know the peacefulness of this country. We do not know the goodness of our land and all we have been given as our natural resources. Let us protect it. Let us work together. Let us help our country because that is all we have. At the end of the day, when we are all done with our life story, we go back into our homes to settle down. We want to find the wetlands and use them not just for Kuomboka fashions but also for rice plantations and maintaining our species. There is just so much that we can gain from wetlands.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, we have seen the importance of wetlands across the country. Policies and regulations are in place, but we have continued seeing people abrogating the regulations with impunity and contributing to the degradation of our wetlands.

Madam Speaker, even products such as Coca Cola soft drink are heavily advertised worldwide. Every year, every day and every month, there are advertisements for Coca Cola. So, my question to the hon. Minister is: What is the ministry doing, considering the importance of wetlands? Does the ministry have a programme to sensitise the people at different intervals on the importance of wetlands, considering challenges like the drought we had, following the effects of certain activities on wetlands? Does the Government have a national programme for protecting wetlands, so that many people can know about them? As we are talking, there are people planning to buy fishing nets to go and fish in wetlands, and there are people who have retired and want to go and settle in wetlands. If we had a programme to sensitise people probably on a daily, week or monthly basis on the importance of protecting wetlands, I am sure, we would preserve them. Does the ministry have a national programme to sensitise the people?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very important follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, in the statement, I alluded to the point that the country has no specific law on wetlands. So, we are talking without biting. However, that is why we sat with all the relevant stakeholders and ministries that have a role to play in this subject matter, and we came up with the guidelines. The guidelines were supported by our co-operating partners, and we launched the guidelines on World Wetlands Day, which is the international day for wetlands. The idea was that we would use that opportunity to sensitise the people. You know, there are programmes where one appears on television for three seconds and then the programme is finished. Not many people would have seen the programme or heard the message. Some people read newspapers; not everybody buys newspapers. In this country, unfortunately, we do not pay attention to real issues. We pay attention to politics, so we miss the real issues that this country and our people should be spending time on.

That is why I want to thank you, Madam Speaker, and the Leader of Government Business in the House, for allowing me to present the Ministerial Statement. It was all in an effort to say ‘where do we begin from?’ The most important people are the hon. Members of Parliament sitting here, in terms of dissemination of information throughout the ten provinces, 116 districts, 156 constituencies, the thousands of wards and millions of communities. I am hopeful that if we begin from here, going by even the suggestion from my brother there, the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena, we could have a session with our technocrats, so that they can give us more information as politicians, so that we can go to our constituencies and start from there. We now have decentralisation. There was a suggestion that we should decentralise the sub-committees to the district councils and to communities so that on our own, as citizens, we can begin to appreciate the importance of conserving and protecting our wetlands.

Madam Speaker, in the mid-term, we have these guidelines. As I indicated, the guidelines will help us to reduce pollution, which somebody talked about. We can detect it, we can stop it because we have guidelines. We will be able to know that the guidelines say that we cannot do certain things. This farm, this man, this woman, this company is doing this. However, you can only stop somebody if you are equipped with knowledge and information. They say that knowledge is power. So yes, we still have a long way to go. We have a lot of work, I want to admit. I can only seek the support of hon. Colleagues, here, to help in their own small way. On our part, in the long-term, we will look at ensuring that we can bite those who do not protect our natural resources.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Minister. I think, the subject is of outmost importance. However, from the indications, I saw that there was not much interest. So, the suggestion you have made about training hon. Members of Parliament is very important. We have a parliamentary training institute. All we need are the resource persons, and the hon. Members will be able to attend. So, please, carry on with that sensitisation and training so that hon. Members are aligned to the issues that relate to wetlands. So, thank you very much, hon. Minister.

REVISED EDITION OF THE LAWS OF ZAMBIA

The Minister of Justice (Ms Kasune): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver a statement informing the House on the revision of the Laws of Zambia. The Laws of Zambia (Revised Edition) Act, No. 9 of 1968, mandates the Ministry of Justice, through the Commissioner-Revision of Laws under the direction of the learned Attorney-General, to prepare the revised edition of the Laws of Zambia and arrange for its printing and publication. Further, Section 9 of the Laws of Zambia (Revised Edition) Act, 1968, mandates my office to specify the cut-off date for revision through a Statutory Instrument (SI). Pursuant to those powers, on 21^st April, 2020, my office issued the Laws of Zambia (Revised Edition) (Specified Date) Notice, SI No. 34, 2020, and set 31^st December, 2019, as the cut-off date for purposes of revision. Following the issuance of the SI, the Commissioner-Revision of Laws proceeded to prepare the revised edition of the Laws of Zambia for the period 1997 to 2019. That is a period of about twenty-two years.

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that our laws were last revised about two decades ago. As a result, our current revised edition of the Laws of Zambia in many cases contains laws that are no longer applicable, as they have since been repealed or amended, thereby rendering the use of our current revised edition redundant. You may wish to know that the practice in most Commonwealth countries is to revise the laws every five years. Therefore, the revision of the Laws of Zambia is a significant milestone in our nation’s history. For the New Dawn Government, under the able leadership of the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, Commander-in-Chief, this is a great success and we are proud to have set aside financial resources for the exercise after so many years, which was not a good precedent.

Madam Speaker, revision of the laws will enable the courts, law practitioners, students of law, enforcement officers and citizens to operate with greater ease and efficiency, as all amendments and SIs affecting a particular law have been consolidated into one Act. Additionally, the comprehensive revision ensures that our laws are up-to-date, consistent and aligned with the current drafting style. This achievement demonstrates our commitment to strengthening the rule of law, promoting justice and supporting the development of our great nation, the Republic of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, Section 13(1) of the Laws of Zambia (Revised Edition) Act, 1968, mandates the Minister of Justice to lay before the National Assembly a complete copy of the revised edition of the Laws of Zambia and further empowers the National Assembly to pass a resolution authorising the President of the Republic to bring the revised edition of the Laws of Zambia into enforcement by a statutory commencement order. Therefore, pursuant to Section 13(1) of the Laws of Zambia (Revised Edition) Act, 1968, I hereby lay before this House the revised edition of the Laws of Zambia for the period 1997 to 2019.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kasune did not lay the paper on the Table.

Madam Speaker: I am just wondering where the documents are. Will they be laid on the Table via soft copy?

Hon. Minister, you indicated that you would lay the revised copies of the law on the Table. I have not seen any.

Mr Kasune: Indeed, Madam Speaker. The ministry discussed the issue with your office. The ministry brought all the physical copies, but it was advised to lay the documents on the Table via soft copy and they will also be sent to hon. Members via soft copy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement presented by the hon. Minister of Justice.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: If the issue was on the cost of living, the indication list would have been full.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, in her statement, the hon. Minister indicated that our laws were last revised two decades ago. Indeed, it has been a long time and many changes have happened in our country. We need to come up with updated laws that will live up to our expectations. The revision of the laws is a welcome idea. When is the ministry starting the process?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: I thought – Anyway, the hon. Minister may proceed.

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, I do not know what happened to my hon. Colleague. What was laid on the Table is the revised edition of the Laws of Zambia for the period 1997 to 2019. I also said that the Commonwealth’s best practice is to revise laws every five years. So, our hope, as a ministry, is to start working on the 2019 to 2024 edition because we are already in the next five-year period.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister should have been thorough so that all the hon. Members get the information and know what we are dealing with. The laws have been revised, but she is talking about an edition. The speech was, basically, procedural. Why has she not followed the required procedure in laying the edition on the Table, which is yet to be approved by this Parliament, than explaining what we did not understand? The House deals with what is presented in accordance with the prescribed procedures.

Madam Speaker: I believe the hon. Minister ­ Maybe, hon. Minister, respond before I give guidance.

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, please, feel free to join in and guide the House.

Madam Speaker, what we are doing is part of the procedure. At some point, Parliament will be asked whether it agrees with the provisions of the revised edition, after which all hon. Members will vote either “Aye”, which we are likely to do, or “No” and then the document will be taken to the President, at which point a commencement order will be issued.

Madam Speaker, you can add on.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, the documents have been laid, but, I think, because of the volume, they could not be brought before the House. Soft copies have been distributed to you. The mere fact of distribution means that the documents have been laid on the Table. The other procedures will follow. That is why the physical copies are not before the House. We are going digital. So, we have to get used to soft copies.

The statement is procedural, as I said. So, let us make progress.

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PLANS TO UPGRADE COMMUNITY SCHOOLS IN MILANZI

246. Ms Phiri (Milanzi) asked the Minister of Education:

(a)     whether the Government has any plans to upgrade the following community schools in Milanzi Parliamentary Constituency, to Government schools: Mnthila Nsembe; and Mlemeka;

(b)     if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

(c)     if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, the Government has already upgraded Mnthila Nsembe and Mlemeka Community Schools in Milanzi Parliamentary Constituency to Government Schools. This transition from community schools to Government primary schools is in accordance with Section 35 of the Education Act No. 23 of 2011, as published in Government Gazette Notice No. 1055 dated 27^th September, 2024.

Madam Speaker, in light of the response in part (a), parts (b) and (c) of the question are not applicable as the Government has already taken the necessary steps.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Phiri: Madam Speaker, I do recognise the fact that the community schools have been upgraded. However, my interest is on the Mnthila Nsembe Community School, which is running without qualified teachers and no learning materials. In short, the school has no infrastructure. Since the schools have been upgraded, what is the hon. Minister doing to ensure the provision of learning materials as well as qualified teachers? This school has about 200 children who do not have access to quality education. What is the hon. Minister doing to ensure that those children have access to quality education?

 Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, that is quite a completely different question. The question that was asked was whether these schools have been turned into Government schools. My response was that yes, they were upgraded to Government schools and that was in September, last year. Whether they have qualified teachers or materials or not is another issue that we have to look into. So, since the hon. Member has just asked about it, I will go back and check. Obviously, we would like to have schools that have teachers. That is why we are recruiting every year. If there are no materials, we will need to equip the schools with the required materials because they are only a few months old as Government schools, from September last year to January this year, which is about five months. If there are no buildings, we can use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to build the school. The other school was built using the CDF, was it not? Is the hon. Member aware of that?

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: Similarly, we can start with the CDF to build other schools. However, since we have that information from the communities, we, as the Government, need to look into that so that we can provide the teachers, school buildings and requisite school materials.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mposha: Hear, hear!

Quality education!

Ms Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his response, and we, as a constituency, are looking forward to his visit. Therefore, we would like to know how soon he will visit the school.

Madam Speaker: So, that is an invitation to the hon. Minister to visit the school, and we leave it at that. I have always encouraged hon. Members to engage the hon. Ministers instead of waiting because that does not resolve any issues.

It looks like there are no more questions. We can make progress.

_______

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE GEOLOGICAL AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT BILL, 2024

The Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development (Mr Mubanga) (on behalf of the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe)): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, the objects of this Bill are to:

1. provide for the geological survey, mapping and exploration of mines in the Republic;
2. provide for the establishment of the Artisanal and Small-Scale Mining Fund; and
3. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters was tasked to scrutinise the Geological and Minerals Development Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 33 of 2024, pursuant to its mandate as set out in Order No. 207(j) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024.

Madam Speaker, the Geological and Minerals Development Bill No.33 of 2024 seeks to provide for the geological survey, mapping and exploration of minerals in the Republic. The Bill also seeks to provide for the establishment of the Artisanal and Small-Scale Mining Fund, and provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, let me state, from the outset, that most stakeholders who appeared before the Committee were in support of the Bill. However, they raised a few concerns on which the Committee makes the following observations and recommendations.

Madam Speaker, the Committee observes that the Bill omits a critical provision that existed in the repealed Mines and Minerals Development Act, No. 11 of 2015, which mandated the Director of Geological Survey to provide data concerning the Geology and Mineral Resources of Zambia and assist members of the public with information concerning geological matters. The Committee, therefore, recommends that a clause be included, which will explicitly require the Director of Geological Survey to provide public access to geological data and information as this will ensure transparency and public access to crucial information.

Madam Speaker, the Committee observes that Clause 7 (2)(b) and (6), permits authorised officers to break up the surface of a part of land during geological surveys. However, the Bill has not explicitly provided for compensation to affected private landowners. The Committee also notes that Clause 7(6) highlights potential legal loopholes for geological survey activities to be conducted without explicit permission. The Committee is therefore, of the view that this omission creates a risk of litigation, strained relations between the Government and landowners, and a negative perception of mining exploration activities.

Madam Speaker, in view of this, the Committee recommends that the Bill incorporates a comprehensive and clearly defined compensation framework that outlines the processes, criterion and timing for compensating landowners for any damages incurred during geological surveys. This framework should encompass both material damages and potential loss of livelihood opportunities resulting from survey activities. The Committee further recommends that prior to initiating any disruptive survey activities, the Bill should mandate prior notification and consultation with landowners as this will foster transparency, facilitate collaborative planning, and mitigate potential conflicts.

Madam Speaker, another matter of concern to the Committee is with regard to the functions of the Director of Mineral Investment Promotion and Local content provided under Clause 9. The Committee is of the view that this function is already being performed by the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA). Therefore, the Committee recommends that the clause be deleted and the functions be exclusively left to the ZDA.

Madam Speaker, with regard to the establishment of Artisanal and Small-scale Mining Fund, under Clause 12(1), the Committee observes that this provision perpetuates duplication of functions and efforts with those of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). The Committee therefore, recommends that the Government harmonises the funds in order to have one fund, which will be responding to all the needs across all sectors. Further, efforts should be directed at making the CEEC more efficient.

Madam Speaker, the Committee also observes disharmony between Clause 12(5) of the Bill, and Part IV, Section 11(1) of the Public Debt Management Act No. 15 of 2022, which empowers the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to help sole authority to raise a loan on behalf of the republic. The Committee, therefore, recommends that Clause 12(5) of the Bill be deleted.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, and on behalf of the Committee members, I wish to express our deepest gratitude to you, and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly, for the guidance and support rendered to the Committee throughout the deliberations. The Committee is further indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their cooperation in providing the necessary briefs.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam Speaker: Order!

I have seen that hon. Members have indicated. Maybe, let me appeal to hon. Members to sit and wait for responses from hon. Ministers. This is better than allowing hon. Members to just debate, raise issues and then, disappear. Hon. Member for Lunte, if I am wrong, then, forgive me, but I have noticed that you like debating and then, zoom.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity.

Madam Speaker, I would like to put it on record that the Bill under consideration is in replacement of the repealed Mines and Minerals Development Act. I just want to bring two issues to your attention. The Report of your Committee, under observations and recommendations, No. 6 states,

“The Committee observes with concern that the Bill omits a critical provision that existed in the repealed Mines and Minerals Development Act No. 11 of 2015, which mandated the Director of Geological Survey to provide data concerning the geology and mineral resources of Zambia, and assist members of the public on information concerning geological matters.”

Madam Speaker, I would like to indicate that all these processes, including the one we are under taking now, are funded by the people. Geological survey in the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is funded by no other than the people. The people deserve to have information. I, therefore, join your Committee in recommending the Executive to bring back the demand on the Director to provide information to the people once the surveys have been funded by the people, and they have collected the information. This will help Zambians to take investment decisions. It is very important that people are given information. If the Executive chooses not to bring back this clause, I will instruct the National Assembly of Zambia to raise an Amendment in my name.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Instruct? Is that what you said?

Mr Kafwaya: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members do not instruct. They move Motions.

Mr Kafwaya: No. It is an instruction. It will be an instruction from me for the National Assembly to raise an Amendment in my name.

Madam Speaker: No, you will move a Motion, hon. Member.

Mr Kafwaya: No, it is not a Motion. What Motion, Madam Speaker?

Madam Speaker: Well, if it is an instruction then, we will see where it will land. 

Laughter

Madam Speaker: You may continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, let me go to item No. 3 of the recommendations and observations.  The Committee notes that the citizen owned company definition is sitting on the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission Act and that, in its current form, it does not promote the Zambian citizens to have the mining rights. Therefore, the indigenous Zambians are not able to access the benefits of incentives in this sector.

Madam Speaker, I would like to urge the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government to amend the definition so as to provide for indigenous Zambians. This will enable the people of Zambia to benefit fully from the incentives that are coming from the money, which they fund the Government to operate I will instruct the National Assembly to move an Amendment in my name so that the Bill can contain this particular data, which will be beneficial to the people of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I wish to appreciate your time.

Madam Speaker: Thank you, I instruct you to resume your seat.

Laughter

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I am grateful, once again, for the opportunity to debate this very important Bill. I think, it is one of our very important Bills as a country because it governs mining. It is a document that will shape the future of mining, depending on what will finally be in the Act.

As a consequence of that, Madam Speaker, I will quickly take you to the report of your Committee. Your Committee is proposing that the Department of Mineral Investment Promotion and Local Content be removed, and that it should be managed by the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA). That is what your Committee said. I have a contrary view on this very important issue. My understanding is that the Bill has a department called the Artisanal and Small-Scale Mining Department. So, if we have a department responsible for small-scale mining, it means that there must be another department responsible for large-scale mining. It is not possible that we do not have a department for large-scale mining, where millions of dollars are coming from. What we have is only for artisanal and small-scale mining. My proposal, therefore, is that instead of deleting the Department of Mineral Investment Promotion and Local Content, we simply rename the department. In other words, my proposal is that the Bill we are discussing should have a department for small-scale mining and it should also have a department for large-scale mining. What should happen with the large-scale mining department, is that it should have three sections. I do not know if they are called sections or units. Under large-scale mining, on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa, I am suggesting that there must be a unit responsible for local content. You are aware that I have been very passionate about the topic of local content, because it is the only tool that will allow Zambians to participate in the business that is currently prevailing in the mining sector. As my hon. Colleague from Lunte indicated earlier, if these thoughts are not captured, on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa, I am going to move an amendment to the Bill to ensure that three units are provided for under the Department of Large-Scale Mining. Which units are these? The first one is on local content. The second unit that has to be established is the Minerals Investment and Promotion Unit, meaning instead of having a department on investment and promotion, these two areas should be a unit under the Department of Large-Scale Mining. The third unit we are going to have under this department is the unit that will be responsible for operations.

 In short, Madam Speaker, I do not agree that we transfer the responsibility to the ZDA. The ZDA should continue with what it is doing, which is looking at Zambia holistically. If we are looking for investors, the ZDA goes to whichever Indaba to ask investors to come into Zambia. We will allow the ZDA to continue doing what it is doing. The conversation today is about mining. On behalf of the people of Kamfinsa, I am saying, let us have a department responsible for large-scale mining. It is important that we have that department.

Madam Speaker, let me come to my second submission. I hope the Acting hon. Minister is taking note of these very important submissions I am making on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa. There is a proposal in the Bill that we need to establish a fund. Now, I am a proponent of providing resources to people in the mining sector. So, if we are going to give mining licences to young people, those in their 40s and 50s, the argument is that we should also provide some resources to help them begin mining. Unfortunately, the Bill does not specify whether we will be giving cash or providing equipment to the people we will give licences. There are young individuals who want to work in the mining industry. We have learnt the lesson that when we give people money, with the understanding that they are going to undertake mining activities to create economic value, they end up using the money for something else. The Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) has given out cash to people before, but it has not worked. Under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), there are many reports of people getting money and not using it for the intended purpose. So, on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa, I am saying, the Government can give a person a mining licence, but it should not give that person cash. The person intending to start mining should tell the Government the equipment he needs to start mining, and then the Government should procure the equipment and give it to him. Also, there must be people to supervise that person’s mining activities. For as long as we continue giving out money, we will be losing out. We all have problems, so the moment people receive money, suddenly their needs change. Instead of going to explore opportunities available in mining, people end up using the cash they are given. That is why I support the proposal that we should have a fund to support small-scale mining, but on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa, I am saying, can we now prescribe how money will go to the young men and women who want to start mining? Should we give them cash? Should we send money into their accounts, or should we provide technical assistance by giving them the equipment they need? We should ensure that they do the correct thing in terms of mining, so that they begin to get the right results out of mining. For me, this Bill is too important to be mismanaged. We need to prescribe the clauses that have been proposed and pay attention to details. What do we need to do to get the mining sector to provide the right benefits for our people? It is important that we do the right thing by ensuring that indigenous Zambians get licences. We gave out many licences last year and in the past, but what have we got out of them? In most cases, people end up selling the licences. So, we need to do the right thing by providing resources and technical support. The same way we have extension services and extension officers under the Ministry of Agriculture is the same way we should have officers responsible for mining going out there to where the licences are being given, ensuring that our young people are doing the correct thing. That way, we are going to get the right results.

Madam Speaker, once again, on behalf of the people of Kamfinsa, due to the limitation of time, I will restrict today’s discussion to those two issues. The rest will come in form of amendments to the Bill.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to make a few comments on the proposed Bill under consideration.

Madam Speaker, the Bill is actually intended to make certain portfolio functions that were provided for under the Mines and Minerals Development Act No. 11 of 2015, stand-alone functions. The Bill has to do with geological survey functions.

The first thing I want to register, Madam Speaker, to the Acting hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, is that we all know that most of the minerals being discovered now, and those that have been discovered before, are in areas under traditional leadership. Chiefs are the custodians of the land on behalf of the people. However, I do not see any provision in the Bill exclusively providing for the role our traditional leadership is going to play. Interestingly, even some of the provisions that could have been co-opted from the Mines and Minerals Development Act have been omitted in this Bill. I want to commend the Committee for pointing out these omissions. The first omission is access to geological data and information. In the Mines and Minerals Development Act, the Director of Geological Survey was mandated to provide data concerning the geology and mineral resources of Zambia and to assist members of the public with information concerning geological matters. In that regard, according to your Committee’s Report on page 9:

 “The Committee recommends that a clause be included, which will explicitly require the Director of Geological Survey to provide public access to geological data and information. The Committee is of the view that this will ensure that there is transparency and public access to crucial information, as required by law.”

This cannot be overemphasised, Madam Speaker. If this Bill is proceeding, the ministry must take into account that recommendation from the Committee because data collection is financed by the people of Zambia, and they have a right to know what is happening.

Madam Speaker, the critical and very interesting provision is the one in which the Government is giving authority to geological surveyors. I will refer to the Committee’s Report so that the House can listen to the concerns raised. Clause 7(2)(b) of the proposed Bill permits authorised officers to break up the surface of any part of land during geological surveying without regard to land ownership.

Madam Speaker, every citizen prides in land ownership and security. How does one rip open land that is titled and is probably utilised for farming? According to that Clause, when surveyors discover minerals, they can do whatever they want without even providing compensation to the land owner. This connects to what I was saying about a person who just goes into a chiefdom without regard for the chief who holds that land on behalf of the people and starts surveying, ripping up the land and doing whatever he or she wants without regard for the owners of the land.

Madam Speaker, as your Committee observes on pages 9 and 10 of the report, the Bill lacks explicit provisions for compensation of affected private landowners. Your Committee also contends that Clause 7(6) highlights potential legal loopholes for geological surveying activities to be conducted without explicit permission. Your Committee is of a strong view that that omission creates a risk of litigation, strained relations between the Government and land owners and negative perceptions of mining exploration activities. The potential conflicts can create a challenge in minerals development.

Madam Speaker, the ministry should pay attention to your Committee’s recommendations because our chiefs have a role to play in what happens to the land they hold on behalf of their people. Those of us who are rural constituency representatives must make it clear that we are not going to be part of passing a law that excludes the rights of our traditional leaders, who have rights over land. The ministry should revisit the aforementioned Clause and ensure that it is clear in terms of compensation. That issue also affects landowners who have titles. One cannot just open up someone’s land and do whatever one wants without taking care of the owner’s existing interests.

Madam Speaker, all the definitions under artisanal mining must equally be clear. There are mining activities that are taking place in areas where we have people or established villages. The next thing one sees –

Madam Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Acting Minister knows what is happening in constituencies like Shiwang’andu. Our people are not benefiting from illegal mining activities that are going on in their areas. We must not miss any step in the process of enacting the Bill. The substantive hon. Minister talked about how we can curtail or curb illegal mining activities. If we do not get it right in this proposed Bill, those matters will protract and, in the end, it will be like the saying in our local language, which I always use, that, “Umulembwe wachipuba upwila mulitumfwe”, meaning the okra prepared by a foolish person will be finished by everybody tasting it before the main meal is prepared. So, the people who are in areas with minerals should be allowed to benefit from them and should be provided for in this Bill.

Mr Chisopa: It should not be like sugilite!

Mr Kampyongo: Sugilite, Madam Speaker, is another interesting story. If we do not tighten up provisions, we will continue witnessing the looting of minerals, as it happened in the past.

Madam Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker – Ya, the time has been very short.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, your time is up. I do not know if you still have anything more to add to the story about the hot pot of okra. Did the people who were tasting from the fire not get burnt?

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: No. I was just asking a rhetorical question.

Hon. Member for Wusakile, you may proceed.

Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Geological and Minerals Development Bill.

Madam Speaker, what birthed the Bill on the Floor and even the Minerals Regulation Commission Bill was the repealing of the Mines and Minerals Development Act No. 11 of 2015. When we raised concerns about what was left out of the Minerals Regulation Commission Bill, the hon. Minster bragged and told us to wait for the strategic Government of the United Party for National Development (UPND).

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Kalobo: Madam Speaker, waiting seemed like a long time, but, today, we are looking at this Bill. We expected to deal with historical challenges by enacting those two Bills. We told the hon. Minister that the solution was not in enacting fragmented laws. The solution was in looking at beneficiation and citizen participation, and the collection of fair taxes from our mineral wealth. That is what was key. However, here we are again. We have lost an opportunity to demand joint exploration and mineral loyalty starting from the chiefdoms, local councils and at the national level. Our colleagues in South Africa who collect mineral loyalties starting from the chiefdoms, like the Kingdom of Bafokeng, are rich and have made huge investments at the chiefdom level. That is what we expected. Those are the issues that we should be bringing on board.

Madam Speaker, the two Bills are about looking at optimal utilisation of minerals and citizen participation, but when one looks at the content of the Bill on the Floor, one sees that it is empty. The titles are rhetorical. They just look enticing, but when one reads the content, there is nothing. One of our suggestions was that listing all the mining companies on the stock exchange would ensure citizen participation so that once dividends are declared, everyone with shares in those mines would have money in their accounts.

Madam Speaker, on the collection of fair taxes, every day, all we see is the awarding of incentives. We are losing out. We cannot fund our development using our mineral wealth. We cannot balance our Budget. So, what are we trying to cure with the two Bills? There is a duplication of laws in the two Bills. We have lost an opportunity, but it is never too late.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development and his Government are seeking to create a small-scale medium fund. We expected him to protect artisanal and small-scale miners. We also expected him to protect those going into joint ventures by putting a threshold of 51 to 49 per cent, but he has not done so. So, in the long run, those who choose to go into joint ventures will lose out. They will be given a 20 per cent, just as he has been given at the national level, where the Government has no voice, and it cannot even speak. It is just a passenger on board. This is the same thing the Government wants to subject the artisanal and small-scale miners to. So, I am urging the Government to ensure that this law protects these people.

Madam Speaker, again, when the Government removed the provision on local content from the Mineral Regulation Commission Bill, the hon. Minister promised to include it in the Geological and Minerals Development Bill. The Bill has been presented to the House, and Section 10(4) of the Bill states that:

“The Minister may, by statutory instrument determine the threshold of local content eligible for preference under this Act.”

Madam Speaker, this is a blank cheque to the hon. Minister. The hon. Minister is an individual. We need to put administrative controls. The supreme law of the land, which is the Constitution, has a component of administrative law. The same Constitution establishes legislation of governance. It creates positions and prescribes the extent of power. So, with regard to local content, for example, the Bill should have stated that non-core  mining activities, such as the provision of cleaning services and supplying work suits should be 100 per cent reserved for Zambian companies. Further, the Government should have a shareholding threshold of not less than 40 per cent in any mining venture.

Why should we give such a contract to a foreigner? We need to avoid situations in which one individual disadvantages many. When we give the power to one hon. Minister, he may just decide that the locals only provide 5 per cent of the goods and services, which will not even benefit the Zambians. What are we going to do? We expected the Geological and Minerals Development Bill to provide administrative controls.

Madam Speaker, a human being is by nature, something else. Last time, I indicated here, that if a bag of Dollars is presented to an individual, he/she may suffer from dollarisation. He/she will fail to contain that pressure and collect the bag of Dollars. We want policies that will benefit the people.

Madam Speaker, we were told that this Bill would cure everything. The chiefs were not included in the Bill, and they were also removed from the board. They are not mentioned anywhere in the Bill. The ministry also established The Artisanal and Small-Scale Miners Fund, but which category do the artisanal and small-scale miners belong to? We expect the Bill to go further and state where they belong.

Madam Speaker, miners will be subjected to serious suffering due to political interference. The Bill should also go further to tell us how political interference will be dealt with so that those who will be able to access the fund do so on merit. This will enable young people in Wusakile with licenses to access funds on merit. So, where is that information? This Bill does not give any information on that. The ministry does not want to provide geological information to the citizens. Section 20 of the Mines and Minerals Development Act had that component, but why has it been removed? Is the hon. Minister trying to run away from transparency, in terms of providing information relating to mining geology? So, the hon. Minister should look into that. We have not lost it all. We still have an opportunity to deal with historical challenges so that this country can benefit from its mineral wealth.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, the people of Luena are grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this very important debate on the Bill.

Madam Speaker, it is important for us to be very clear about what we are talking about so that we are not all over the place; wanting everything to do with minerals to be included in this one Bill. If we misguide ourselves along those lines, then we will be debating out of context. So, the objectives of the Bill are to:

1. provide for the geological survey, mapping and exploration of minerals in the Republic;
2. provide for the establishment of the Artisanal and Small-scale Mining Fund; and
3. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, this Bill cannot be the one to talk about how the mines should be taxed, no. That is dealt with elsewhere. So, we need to debate or engage one another concerning this Bill with an understanding of what it is that is set out as its objectives. I appreciate the observations made by my hon. Colleagues who have debated before me, including those who have talked about how in other jurisdictions where the mineral royalties of one form or the other are sometimes given to the local people through their traditional leadership. My hon. Colleague even gave an example of South Africa. That arrangement only happens with the Royal Bafokeng of South Africa. It does not happen all over South Africa. So, we have our mineral royalty arrangements in this country and they are working very well. This Bill is focused on ensuring that the small-scale miners; the locals, can participate and benefit from the resources, which are God given to them without the current impediments. That is exactly what this Bill intends to deal with.

Madam Speaker, secondly, this Bill intends to provide a framework to ensure that wherever this God-given resource is found, the Government can facilitate access to it through exploration. The issues of joint exploration or single exploration cannot be contained in this Bill.

Madam Speaker, when we talk about the business establishment, be it in any sector, the question of whether or not foreigners participate or whether they can participate only with the involvement of Zambians is dealt with in other pieces of legislation. So, those thoughts are actually very helpful. However, they may not be included in this particular Bill. So, I think, we can always improve, –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, firstly, I apologise to my hon. Colleague, whom I know has always been quite thorough with his work. Unfortunately, today, I do not know if he had sight of this report. There is a report on the Floor, that speaks to the ownership of small-scale miners, which will then give them eligibility to benefit from the fund that this Bill seeks to establish.

Madam Speaker, is my hon. Colleague in order to insinuate that those of us who have debated in line with what is in your Committee’s report are not speaking to the Bill and that most of the issues we have raised are provided for in other Bills?

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to note that my colleagues and I are very conversant with the other Bills the hon. Minister brought to the House. We even suggested that the Bills should have been brought to the House at the same time to make sure nothing is left behind in terms of the content in the Minerals and Development Act No. 6 of 2015 that we are repealing. Was the hon. Member in order to insinuate that we are speaking from a point of not understanding the Bill?

Madam Speaker: The objectives are stated in the Bill and the report.  In the Bill, they are as follows:

1. to provide for geological survey, mapping and exploration of minerals in the Republic,
2. to provide for the establishment of artisanal and small-scale mining, and
3. to provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Hon. Members, maybe, the hon. Minister will be able to clarify. From my assessment, what the hon. Members were saying made a lot of sense. Perhaps, if it is not covered in this Bill or in another Bill, the hon. Minister should clarify when he responds. That is why I was appealing to the hon. Members to wait after debating so that they get responses. In the event that the response is not satisfactory, then, they can move amendments.

May the hon. Member for Luena, please, proceed.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, I thank you very much.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Members on your right-hand side have stated over and over that the opportunity to make a livelihood from the God given resources that this country is endowed with must be given to the citizens. In fact, we do know that there are processes that have already been put in place to ensure that the issue of local participation is embedded in the Government’s policy. In addition, the Bill is also speaking to that through the establishment of this Artisanal Fund.

Madam Speaker, the submission of the people of Luena is that, to ensure local participation, the Bill is in fact, a very good starting point.  Issues of beneficiation are being dealt with in the Bill to ensure that there is value addition. Therefore, it is in the value addition chain that the local people would also be empowered to participate in the processes. So, at this stage, there is a temptation to jump the gun that whenever the word, “mining” is mentioned, then everything to do with mining should be included in whatever document we are looking at. There has to be a systematic approach, and in this case, that is what this Bill has commenced.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I would like to support the Bill.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity given to me on behalf of the people of Kanyama to add a voice to what has been laid on the Table.

Madam Speaker, from the onset, I would like to support the Bill and, I would want each and every individual here to support it. The reasons are very simple.

Mr Chisopa: Naba anyama!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mkushi South!

On several occasions, I have advised you to not debate while seated. You have not even indicated. Please, hon. Members, can we maintain the honour, dignity and decorum of the House especially, for some of you who have spouses in here. We do not want to start talking about you in a negative manner in the presence of your spouses. That was on a light note, but that was to remind you, hon. Member that your spouse is always listening to what you say. So, if she does not cook nshima for you, you will know why.

Laughter

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, before I was interrupted by my colleague, I was saying this Bill has come at a time when a number of African countries have realised that they need to protect what belongs to them. Actually, this is giving power to the people of Zambia to own mines. I do not think there is anyone who would not want something like this to happen. Perhaps, the only thing we can look at is what one hon. Colleague said, which is to categorise and state exactly how the funds can be distributed to the people we are going to empower. That was a brilliant suggestion and I support it. We need to ensure that we do not give people money. The hon. Member gave an example of boys who were given the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to support their small business, but instead, they shared it, saying, “lekeni twakane, nimpiya shesu ishabuteko”.  Meaning, “Let us share. This is our money from the Government.” Learning from the past, we just need to protect the Government resources from being wasted.

Madam Speaker, like I was saying, each and every country has realised that which can make it grow or develop, in some way, has developed other countries. Zambia has a lot of resources but it has not progressed.  Zambia has been in existence for over sixty years, but it is still developing. When is it going to develop? So, this is why an issue I would support this Bill because firstly, it will embrace whatever Zambians have. They will have the resources as their own.  If we decide to export, we will need to add value to the products so that they are sold at a higher price.  So, these are some of the issues that we need to look at.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about something that I read about. Under governance, we make rules and regulations of how to govern, forgetting the other hidden factors that may not allow us to do exactly what we may plan to do.

Madam Speaker, Section 13, talks about the artisanal funds and where they will come from. There is a suggestion that the funds may come from any other source. The House may wish to note that “any other source” that is not well-defined can probably disrupt everything that meant well for the people. So, we are human and we see the way things happen. You cannot bite a finger that feeds you.

For instance, if there will be multinational co-operations (MMCs) that will be willing to provide funding, are we going to say no to them? Honestly, can we say no to an investor who is willing to fund and make sure that whatever we do is actualised? There is a thin line there. At the end of the day, the same people will have an influence of whatever we do.  So, my request is that as we look at some of the “any other” funders, we should be strict and ensure that what belongs to us is well protected.

With these few remarks, Madam Speaker, I wish to support the Bill and I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Chinsali has indicated. Let us not repeat ourselves. Is it a fresh idea or just –

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I will actually restrict my debate to just two points which I have noticed my hon. Colleagues who debated earlier did not touch.

Madam Speaker: Alright. You can proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to make a few comments on the Geological and Minerals Development Bill.  I do not know if I should continue or just wait to be told to go for health break.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: As long as I have not said anything, you can continue.

Mr Mukosa: I can continue, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.  

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to comment on the Geological and Minerals Development Bill No. 3 of 2024.

Madam Speaker, I will restrict my debate to just three issues. The first is the establishment of the Artisanal and Small-Scale Mining Fund. The second is the inconsistency in the law that will be enacted because of this Bill. Thirdly, I will talk about the silence on the participation of chiefs in mining activities in their chiefdoms.

Madam Speaker, my first issue is the establishment of the Artisanal and Small-Scale Mining Fund. The Bill says that there is established the Artisanal and Small-Scale Mining Fund to promote the development of the artisanal and small-scale sub-sector. Now, the idea of introducing a fund is very good because it means that we are going to empower our artisanal miners and the local miners, the Zambians. The problem we have is that the fund should not be administered by the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. The reason is that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, currently, cannot administer such a fund because it does not have the capacity to administer the fund. We do not have finance experts in the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development who can administer and manage the fund

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mukosa: Remember, Madam Speaker, the fund that is required to support mining activities is likely to be higher than the funds that people who keep chickens and participate in other small business activities get. Therefore, the responsibility of managing the fund will be huge. It will require credit managers with experience in managing such kind of funds. Therefore, my recommendation is in line with what was recommended in the report on the Bill, that we should give the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) the responsibility to manage the fund, because at least, the CEEC has about twenty years of experience, since it was established in 2006.

Madam Speaker, the other issue I want to talk about is the lacuna that this Bill is introducing. Section 11(1) of the Public Debt Management Act No. 15 of 2022 gives authority to only the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to obtain loans for the Republic of Zambia. However, this Bill is introducing a requirement for the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to obtain loans on behalf of the Republic of Zambia to support the fund I have talked about. This will create inconsistency in the law, and there will be what we can loosely call a lacuna. Therefore, there is a need to ensure that the responsibility to obtain loans remains with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, who can borrow the money and provide it to the CEEC. When we give money to the CEEC, we can dictate that 25 per cent should go towards supporting artisanal miners and 20 per cent, 50 per cent or 5 per cent to other sectors. We just need to work on ensuring that the CEEC becomes more efficient.

Madam Speaker, my last point is on the issue of chiefs. The silence of this Bill on the participation of chiefs in the mining activities in their chiefdoms is so loud. The people of Chinsali want any person who comes to Chinsali to mine to consult Senior Chief Nkula. They want Chief Nkweto and Chief Mubanga to be consulted.

An hon. Minister interjected.

Mr Mukosa: I can hear the hon. Minister asking why. They are the custodians of –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chinsali, please, concentrate on your debate.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, the man with a beard is disturbing me.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may continue.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, our chiefs, who keep land on behalf of the Government and the people of Zambia they preside over, need to be consulted and engaged on any mining activity that is happening in Chinsali or any other chiefdom. Therefore, the Bill should clearly prescribe and define the role that they will play. I think, we are going to bring in an amendment so that we can give a prescription of how the chiefs are supposed to be engaged regarding mining activities in their chiefdoms.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I believe that was the last hon. Member on the indication list.

Acting hon. Minister, wind up debate.

Mr Mubanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the chairperson and the hon. Members of your Committee for their hard work. I would also like to thank the following Members of Parliament who debated: Hon. Kafwaya, Hon. Kang’ombe, Hon. Kampyongo, Hon. Kalobo, Hon. Anakoka, Hon. Chinkuli and Hon. Mukosa.

Madam Speaker, the Bill has not excluded our traditional leaders and local communities. This Bill is still undergoing a process, and submissions are being accepted. Recommendations, submissions, proposals and concerns will be looked at. We will work together to include progressive submissions in the Bill.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 20^th March, 2025.

_______

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, shukran. Thank you very much for giving me this opportunity on behalf of the people of Mwinilunga to add my voice to the debate on the Motion of Thanks on the address given by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, the issue of values and principles should not be left to the Government and non-governmental organisations (NGOs) alone. As citizens, we must participate and curb the scourge of alcohol abuse and many other vices that our young people and some adults engage in.

Madam Speaker, the elephant in the room is the delimitation of constituencies. I remember well that in 2024, when the President addressed the House, he said that progress had been recorded in sharing the national cake equally across all constituencies and that what was lacking was equity due to differences in the size of constituencies. Knowing the kind of President he is, I knew that the following year he would talk about how to achieve equity. Precisely so, when he came to this House – I was not here – he talked about equity and that it can only be achieved if we delimitate the bigger constituencies. I was intrigued. I watched some videos, and everybody agreed, both your left and right, with the President on the need for delimitation.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I come from a very big constituency. I have also made an assessment and noted that there are constituencies outside the North-Western Province that are also big, such as Chinsali, Shiwang’andu, Chilubi, Kalulushi, Katombola, Kasempa, Mufumbwe and Nyimba, and they require delimitation.

Madam Speaker, the impact of the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is less felt in bigger constituencies because the money is not enough. The President wants to put K72.2 million into constituencies like Shiwang’andu, Chinsali and Chilubi. Currently, those constituencies merely receive K36.1 million each under the CDF. There is no hon. Member worth his salt who can go against the proposition that was made by His Excellency the President. We must all agree with what the President said so that our constituencies, including Lunte, can have more money. At the moment, the resources fail to go around and benefit all our people, especially in the bigger constituencies.

In fact, when the increment was announced, I even went around telling people that I would not use money from my pocket anymore because the CDF had been enhanced, and that we would be able to do everything using the CDF. I was cheating myself. Today, I still cough out money from my pocket to help with cement or roofing sheets because people cannot wait for three years to have a classroom block and a teacher’s house. Therefore, if the President is saying let us delimitate and give more to those big constituencies, then I think that it is a welcome idea. I want the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, the hon. Member for Chinsali, the hon. Member for Nyimba, the hon. Member for Kasempa and the hon. Member for Mwinilunga to support this idea.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Samakayi: If they do not support it, you people out there, are hearing me. People in Chinsali, you are hearing me, –

Hon PF Members: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Interruptions

Mr Samakayi: You people in Shiwang’andu, you are hearing me, –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mwinilunga!

Please, debate through the Chair.

Mr Samakayi: Through the Chair, Madam –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are not addressing the people.

Mr Samakayi: Through you, Madam Speaker, the people of Chinsali and Shiwang’andu must pay attention. The President wants to give them more money, but their leaders are refusing. So, they should know what to do to them.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Samakayi: They should know what to do to them. Come 2026, those who are refusing more money in their constituencies must be shown the door.

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  A point of order is raised.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 71.

Madam Speaker, I am seated quietly and listening attentively to the debate by my colleague from Mwinilunga. He is misleading the public by saying that the President wants to give money to some constituencies, but their representatives are refusing. The people of Chinsali are waiting for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for 2024, which has not been given.

Mr Katakwe: You have not claimed it!

Mr Mukosa: He says they want to give us more money, but we are refusing, yet I am still waiting for the CDF for last year.

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, is he in order to mislead the public; people in Chinsali, Lusaka, Zambia and the sub-region? He is misleading them with impunity. Actually, the people of Chinsali want money. They want to be given the CDF. They want money for the township roads, the Nambuluma/Chinsali Road, and for the Chinsali/Mulilansolo Road. The Government is failing to do all those things, but he is here …

Mr Nkandu: Question!

Mr Mukosa: … saying that the President wants to give the people of Chinsali money and their representative is refusing. Is he in order?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member on the Floor brought up the aspect of money as he was talking about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). For me, the only mistake that the hon. Member for Mwinilunga has made is to bring into his debate the other hon. Members in the House. So, the hon. Member for Mwinilunga, can you, please, confine your debate to the speech that was delivered by the President without drawing other hon. Members who are seated in this House and their people in your debate.

Hon. Member for Mwinilunga, you may continue with your debate.

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, the rules regarding the CDF are that the councils in constituencies have to submit proposals for projects to be funded. When they exhaust the money, they have to apply for more. So, if a council has not received the CDF, it means that it did not apply to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Samakayi: That is the current system.

Madam Speaker, I think that there is a need for all of us to support the delimitation of large constituencies so that we can serve our people in all parts of our country properly with adequate resources. As it is today, some constituencies have difficulties, like I said earlier, providing services to all corners of their constituencies because the resources are inadequate. So, it is important that we support the proposal to amend the Constitution so that we have adequate resources to provide services to our people.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Chimwemwe, I will briefly look at two or three items that concern the youths. I will talk about morality and ethics, in particular alcohol and substance abuse.

Madam Speaker, Chimwemwe Constituency has many youths who are now glued to substance abuse. The question is: How much are we doing to help them? I think that what we are doing is not helping them, rather we are trying to incarcerate them and kill their future. These are victims of being addicts. I say so because there is one kingpin who gives them the drugs to take and traffic. There are the cops, let me call them police officers or law enforcement agencies, who are arresting these poor young youths as they are considered to be traffickers. The youths they are arresting in Chimwemwe cannot be considered to be traffickers. It is unfortunate that right now, they are serving jail terms.

Madam Speaker, here is a youth who is only moving in flip flops, and lives with his parents, and his father cannot handle him. So, he gives him a place behind his house to build a quarter made of iron roofing sheets. This is the youth on whom the police will pounce and find him with, perhaps a gramme or more of what should be considered as a trafficker. So, instead of taking this youth to a rehabilitation centre, the police will take him to court, then the court sends him to jail. We have many youths who are in jail. The question is –

 

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Nkana!

Please, avoid debating while seated. Give chance to your friend or colleague, the hon. Member for Chimwemwe, to debate freely without having to interject. I do not think that he needs your help.

May the hon. Member for Chimwemwe continue.

Mr A. Banda: Madam Speaker, our law enforcement officers are not being helpful by sending the youth to prison. That youth does not need to be imprisoned because doing that is making the situation worse. Here are the youths from Chimwemwe who are now serving jail terms. They have been taken to jail, and they are not going to reform because there in jail, they are not being taken to rehabilitation centers, but to a skills development center. Prison is also a skills development centre. Unfortunately, it does not give them a skill that they will come back with and society will appreciate. The skills that they are going to learn are how to break into homes, to be better robbers, how to snatch purses, and how to harass people. This is what we are doing to the youth. Are we helping them? No.

Madam Speaker, in other countries, a youth found with drugs is not arrested. He/she is detained and used as bait to direct the law enforcement officers to the kingpins. That is what we need. After they do that, they are taken to rehabilitation centres. We need to put more effort and funds into our rehabilitation centres. We do not have enough rehabilitation centres. Even the private rehabilitation centres that we have do not have qualified staff. This is where the Government should come in because we need to change the notion of calling our youths drug traffickers.

Madam Speaker, when you go to primary schools in Chimwemwe, you will learn that drug abuse starts from primary school. We have pharmacies whose owners import drugs. I wonder whether the Government takes stock of the drugs these pharmacies buy. They call it actor, I do not know if that is the correct name. This drug is sold to school-going children. We know that once they get glued to such substances, they become addicts. As they grow, they cannot do without them. This is what the Government should do instead of having these 4,728 convicts. Of those 4,728, perhaps, only 20 per cent are kingpins. What we need is to not send them to prison.

Madam Speaker, the people of Chimwemwe are concerned about gender-based violence (GBV). It is true that there is a decrease in the number of female victims. However, we have not considered the male victims. The male victims’ cases have now become a serious concern to the public. Most male victims are now being battered to death, shot at, and scorched with hot liquids. Despite being treated like that, they fail to report to the police.

Madam Speaker, the brave ones who go to report to the police are actually mocked by the police themselves. As a result, they do not go back there to report when they are victimised.  They ask them, “Look at your stature. How do you come to report your wife?” Nobody talks about males who are victimised. We all talk about the females. In this regard, issues to do with GBV should include both men and woman. We have many fathers who have lost their lives because of GBV. 

Madam Speaker, let me state that it is an offence for a person to not utilise the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We consider that as economic sabotage. I agree with this, but the question is: Who are the perpetrators? It is the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development at the provincial level. Here is a very good example from Chimwemwe. Madam Speaker, in Chimwemwe, we had four to five disasters last year. We applied for aid because the bridge that was damaged actually connected children to their schools.  It would take those ten minutes from the area they live to reach the school. That bridge has not been attended to because our documents are still resting or sleeping in the offices in Ndola. How do we call that a disaster component?

Madam Speaker, now, the children have to walk round the compound and it takes them an hour to reach the school. If the children who do not walk, but trot, can take that long, what about me? I think, I would take me about two hours. That is why I am saying that this was committed to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development at provincial level.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I thank you, on behalf of the people of Chimwemwe.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor of the House, on behalf of the good people of Pemba.

Madam Speaker, when the His Excellency the President addressed the nation and this august House, he indicated that the Government is working tirelessly to addressing the social ills. To this effect, 4,728 suspects who were involved in production and trafficking of illegal drugs were arrested in 2024.

Madam Speaker, there are other interventions that have been introduced through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to curb illicit activities by our youths. We have a component to support our youths under the youth and women empowerment, and also under the skills.  They say; “people who do not work or the idle mind is the devil’s workshop.” When our youths are not doing anything, they are forced to involve themselves in a lot of illicit activities that include drug abuse. Quite a number of our youths are being trained in different skills using the CDF. As a result, most of our youths are kept busy. This is also helping to curb the wrong activities by the youths.

Madam Speaker, the issue of teenage pregnancies and early marriages is also being addressed by the introduction of the Free Education Policy and the CDF. If it was not for the enhancement of the CDF, most of our girls maybe, could have been married or even fallen pregnant. Now, they are in school. This means that the Government is doing a lot to curb early marriages and pregnancies.

Madam Speaker, let me also comment on the issue of the loans under the CDF. The President advised the nation to improve on paying back the loans.  The Government has come up with many interventions to address the economic challenges.  This includes the issue of the loans and grants through the CDF. We also have the Sustainable Agriculture Financing Facility (SAFF), the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), and the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) which are equally meant to address the economic challenges that the nation is facing. However, the challenge we have is that when people get loans from the Government, they do not pay back.

Madam Speaker, it is high time the hon. Members started encouraging the youth to pay back the loans as that money is meant to support our grandchildren and relatives. If they do not pay back, it will be difficult for the Government to continue pumping in resources that are really meant to improve the lives of our people.

Madam Speaker, we are almost in the election year.   In this regard, I have a message to the people of Zambia, especially those who got loans. I urge them to pay back the loans that they got.   It is not good to hold the Government at ransom by threatening the 2026 Elections or other future elections. That money belongs to the public. Therefore, the money should not be abused.

Madam Speaker, let me comment on the issue of SAFF. There are some people who got the money and yet they do not even have fields. Sometimes, I wonder why people get the money and pretend to invest it into agriculture when they do not even have a Lima. It is important that people should understand that the Government is fighting poverty. The Government is pumping these resources so that people’s lives can be uplifted. For instance, about K7 million has been pumped into Pemba through this programme. Now, what would happen if people do not pay back the money? It will mean that the Government will lose resources. It also means that those who are supposed to get the resources the following year will not get anything.  It means that our relatives in Chinsali and other constituencies who are supposed to benefit from these resources will not get anything.  Therefore, the Government will not continue pumping in resources. People should appreciate the Government’s efforts by paying back the loans.

Madam Speaker, if they do not pay back, it means that they do not appreciate. If they do not appreciate, then, at a later stage, the projects will be deemed not to be profitable to the Government. This will mean that the Government will stop pumping in resources. So, who will suffer at the end of the day? It is ourselves. In thanking the Government, I would like to encourage the people of Zambia to make sure that they pay back when they get loans from the CEEC, CDF, SAFF and any other loans. Let us develop the system that will encourage people to pay back.

Madam Speaker, let me also request the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development to come up with a system of educating people. We have officers in the ministry in our constituencies. What are they doing? Do the officers actually educate our people, that they need to pay back when they get loans? If the officers are not doing that, I think, it is very important that we come up with a system to educate the people. The officers should not just sit in their officers but educate our people, because most of our people do not understand or do not have the mindset of paying back loans. We need to inculcate mindset change so that people start paying back loans.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I support the speech presented by the President.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Eng. Daka (Chadiza): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to say a few words on behalf of the people of Chadiza, on the debate on the speech by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, I will restrict my debate to only two pages, that is, page 11 and page 19. On page 11, the President stated the following:

“Growth of a strong economy is not the responsibility of one individual, nor by Government alone, but by the sweat, ambition, and unity of an entire nation including the private sector.”

Madam Speaker, this is an important matter because it affects everyone. It does not matter which political party you belong to because a good economy actually benefits everyone. Therefore, I expect all hon. Members of Parliament to support the President in his quest to make our economy good. The President has demonstrated his zeal or desire to make the economy better than he found it. I want to state that, on the economy, first of all, he has to deal with the cost of doing business or create an environment suitable for one to prosper, with regard to doing business. A suitable environment is directly proportional to the cost of living, because if a good environment is created, the cost of living will definitely improve. To me, the cost of living is actually directly proportional to the moral standing of any community, because if the cost of living is okay in a country, you will find that things will just be normal for most citizens. However, if it is not okay, that leads to moral decay. That is when you find most people indulging in alcohol and substance abuse and many other bad devices that damage the standing or the health of people, in a nutshell. I will not speak much on the matter because the debaters who spoke before me fully addressed the mater.

Madam Speaker, permit me to go to page 19. What is on page 19 is so dear to me and my people in my constituency. On page 19, the President said the following:

 “In order to improve distribution and deliver resources equitably and fairly to communities, there will be need to delimitate or subdivide overly large constituencies by geography and population. This will require constitutional amendment to be effected.”

Madam Speaker, what I am going to speak about is coming directly from the people of Chadiza. The people of Chadiza are very categorical with regard to delimitation. They say ‘no delimitation, no votes.’ So, those who are trying to go against what the President wishes to do for the people of Chadiza, please, let them consider themselves enemies of the people of Chadiza.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Daka: Madam Speaker, the people of Chadiza have been suppressed or undermined for a long time. If you visited the constituency, you would find that it has twenty wards, but it is receiving the same Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocation with constituencies with only four wards. How do we expedite or quicken development in that regard? So, the people of Chadiza feel mistreated with regard to what is obtaining currently. Therefore, they have unanimously agreed to support the President’s sentiment to delimitate the constituency and many other constituencies that are vast by geography. You cannot deliver development to a constituency that is vast. It is impossible. The mode of development that the current Government has adopted is the CDF. So, if constituencies have to receive resources equitably, it means their sizes should be similar. Delimitation will actually expedite development to many constituencies that are vast.

Madam Speaker, I heard someone say that delimitation will increase Government expenditure. Before you talk about something, it is better to do what is called a cost benefit analysis. We are talking about bringing an additional hon. Member of Parliament against what sort of benefits may come with delimitation? How many people are going to benefit with regard to empowerment through grants under the CDF? We are talking about bringing a single hon. Member of Parliament against the masses who will benefit from the resources that will be increased. So, I wonder when someone says ‘no, you need to push money into people’s stomachs.’ The CDF itself is structured in such a way that it is already pushing money to the ordinary people out there in society.

Madam Speaker, we cannot talk about the size of this Chamber today. People have made the same proposition of increasing the constituencies. What has changed today, that this Chamber has become small? Before, they used to propose to increase the number of hon. Members of Parliament. We have visited several areas through parliamentary visits, and we have seen how space has been utilised in national assembly buildings. There is a lot of dead space here. We do not need a new building here. There is a lot of dead space. We have compared ourselves with other jurisdictions. We have seen how our friends have used space efficiently. So, the question of space does not arise here. The people of Chadiza want to benefit as much as they have been benefiting before.

Madam Speaker, I do not want to bore my hon. Colleagues here. With those few remarks, on behalf of the people of Chadiza, I support the President in his quest to develop the country.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the people of Luena, I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the speech that was delivered by the Republican President to the House, in accordance with Articles 8 and 9 of the Constitution of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, in a few words, the people of Luena have welcomed the speech and described it as the appropriate speech for such a time as this one. Why are they saying it is appropriate for such a time as this one? It is because the Constitution requires the President to report the progress made on the application of the values outlined in the Constitution, naturally over the period since the last time he reported to this august House. He did so perfectly because there was more than enough to report under each one of them. Let me start with a point on deepening democracy. Democracy is not costless for a nation. It costs money to enhance the quality of democracy. The Preamble of our Constitution states that:

“We, the people of Zambia: … Do hereby solemnly adopt and give to ourselves this Constitution:”

Madam Speaker, we are alive to the fact that resources are needed to live up to the aspirations of our Constitution. That is what the President alluded to when he spoke about the need for us to revisit our Constitution in order to enhance the quality of democracy. It is myopic to suggest that the better the quality of representation people have, the lower the quality of life they will live. The truth is the exact opposite. When people have better representation, that is, an hon. Member who interacts with them and explains Government programmes, gauges their desires, and brings those desires to this House, then, the response of the Executive will also be effectively and efficiently executed for the people. That can only be done when we have appropriate representation in terms of the geographical area that an hon. Member has to cover and the population that he or she has to address. Many of us in this House will attest to the fact that travelling from one end of a constituency to the last ward can take the whole day. When an hon. Member reaches a ward to meet the people in that location, some people still have to walk for as long as two days to get to that meeting. Is that the kind of quality of representation we want to continue perpetuating in 2025? The call for us to revisit the Constitution is timely. I think those who do not want the Constitution to be touched do not have the interest of the people of Zambia at heart.

Madam Speaker, we should not be scared to touch other issues and areas of the Constitution and only talk about delimitation. Our quest to improve governance must not be stopped on the basis that we are about to hold elections. Elections come up every time, whether they are four or five years away. That is part and parcel of the system we have chosen. The people of Luena are mindful of one area that we think is important to touch on as we talk about delimitation. How are we going to improve the quality and demographics of women, youth and persons with disabilities’ representation? Therefore, how can someone say that the Constitution should not be touched? Is it because one does not want to govern with the people he or she represents? Why would one not wish women, youths and persons with disabilities to be with us in this House when addressing their issues? That is what the President was alluding to when he talked about the quality of governance.

Madam Speaker, the other area that the President touched on is patriotism. If we are true to ourselves and want to provide leadership that will leave a mark in the wake of our departure when God calls us, we have to ensure that we inculcate patriotism into our children and the citizenry at large. That is important because some people among us have so much ill will against the nation. They are in a hurry to paint the nation black and, in the process, paint themselves black. They peddle all kinds of falsehoods on social media. The technology that has come to enhance our quality and level of interaction can also be fuel that can ignite an unquenchable fire if we are not careful. That is why patriotism is important. It should cut across everything we do, even in the way we engage in our politics and deliver development to the people.

Madam Speaker, some people still yearn for yesteryear because, in those days, they would issue instructions to win elections, instead of letting the people choose. How were they doing that? Every election was turned into a battlefield. It was a war zone. How can we forget something like that quickly? We have had elections this year so far. I was in Petauke Central and Kaumbwe where we had the first by-elections at the parliamentary level. In some instances, the local people did not know that there were by-elections going on until one appealed to them to vote for a particular candidate. Previously, people would stop conducting their business normally because whoever was caught up with the commanders leading their troops regretted the day they were born. However, those days are gone now.

Mr Amutike: Mkushi South!

Mr Anakoka: Why would anyone want to take us back to those days, Madam Speaker?

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the President for that appropriate speech.

With those few words, Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, I want to sincerely appreciate you for giving me this opportunity to say a few things on the debate on the Motion of Thanks on the speech delivered by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia in this House last Friday.

Madam Speaker, if I were to rate the speech, I would give it a one out of ten.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I want to justify that rating. From 2022 to 2024, and now in 2025, whenever the President comes to this House to report on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles, we have been listening to the same things. The people in the United Party for National Development (UPND) have one year. They will go next year.

Interruptions

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, when we talk about morality and ethics, we are required to conduct ourselves morally and ethically upright. The Secretary-General of the Ruling Party called a bishop “Lucifer” and has not apologised.  

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mkushi South!

You are now moving outside the Motion on the President’s Speech. Please, stick to the speech that was delivered in this House on Friday. Let us avoid bringing up people who cannot defend themselves. The Secretary-General you are talking about is not in this House to defend himself. Those are the rules of the House. So, focus on the speech.

You may continue.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, someone called a bishop “Lucifer” and that person has not apologised up to today. It is just normal –

Interruptions

Mr Chisopa: We are talking about ethics.

Madam Speaker, it is normal to apologise. When one is wrong, then one is wrong. I am Catholic and when someone refers to our Bishop as Lucifer, it means that that includes the flock.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, some of us are Catholics, but we –

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, today, when we talk about democracy and constitutionalism –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I have already guided. Do not drag other hon. Members into your debate. There are many Catholics here and outside. Please, do not bring them into your debate. Be focused on the speech. It is simple, clear and straightforward. If you do not agree with it, be straightforward and say you do not agree with this because of this and that, instead of bringing in other people. Do you want the whole Catholic Church to be involved in your debate? You are not allowed to do so, hon. Member. Focus on the President’s Speech.

You may continue.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, on constitutionalism and democracy, today, people can parade – I want to appeal to the United Party for National Development (UPND). Sometimes, those handling the Presidency must always guide the President properly. The President cannot be paraded before a political party that is entangled in so many legal battles and then you talk about an alliance –

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mkushi South, I wonder if what you are debating is in the speech. Link whatever you are saying to the speech.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi South, if you cannot relate your debate to the content of the speech, I am afraid, I will have to curtail your debate.

You may continue.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, when we talk about equity, dignity, human and social justice and equality, we must be seen to be doing what we re preaching. As we speak, all the projects in Luano District have been terminated while in other districts, the contracts are going on. Where is the equity?

Hon. UPND Members: Jealous!

Mr Chisopa: We are talking about equity.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon Members!

Let us not debate while seated.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, Luano was declared a district. When the UPND came into power, it found projects running. The only thing it has done in Luano is terminate all the projects. That is its achievement. It will be kicked out in 2026. It is a bad Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Chisopa: The UPND Government is bad.

Madam Speaker, all the projects that the UPND found were cancelled. So, where is the equity? The UPND must be seen to be doing what it talks about.

Madam Speaker, the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) is a disaster. Even the Sustainability Agriculture Financing Facility (SAFF), which someone was boasting about, is a disaster. People did not receive fertiliser according to the way they were supposed to, yet some people were boasting. What is said here and what is on the ground is different.  The Government should speak to the people.  They will tell our colleagues in Government that things are not okay.

 Madam Speaker, people are suffering. If the UPND Government thinks that people are not suffering, today, I am telling the Government that people are suffering. The people of Zambia are failing to put food on the table because of the economic hardships that the UPND Government has created for them. Therefore, the only ticket that the UPND has next year, is the one to be kicked out of the Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, some churches have refused to participate in the International Women's Day celebrations. Why? It is because of bad governance. The UPND is failing to unite this country. It is a bad Government.

Hon. UPND Member: Thieves!

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I need your protection. Someone is calling me a thief when she knows that she is a big thief.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you are protected. Please, continue.

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, allow me to now talk about corruption. As we speak, the 2024 Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) reported that US$3 billion has gone missing. To date, the people who externalised the US$3 billion have not been arrested. The people of Zambia are waiting for the UPND to tell them where it has taken the US$3 billion.

In 2023, Madam Speaker, US$2 billion was taken out of the country. To date, the UPND Government has failed to tell us where it took the US$2 billion. They will get the answer in 2026. The Government will be judged by its acts.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi South, the word you used is unparliamentary, please, withdraw it.

Mr Chisopa: Which one, Madam Speaker?

Interruptions

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, I need your protection. The hon. Members are making running comments. However, I withdraw the statement.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mkushi South, you kept saying, “You will be kicked out.” I think, that should come from the Zambian people, not an individual. The Zambians will determine that.

We make progress.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity that you have given the people of Solwezi East to add a voice to the debate on the Motion of the President’s Address to this House on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, I am always surprised by some people who fail to appreciate the President’s Address. There is a Bemba saying which states that “Ukwenda umungulu, waponena na mung’ungulu, nengulu shakwingila.”

Laughter

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, that means that when you have no vision, and you follow a leader who has no vision, kuponena mung’ungulu. It means you will fall into a ditch. This is what we saw in the past. A leader would have no vision, but some people followed him and, today, they still follow him.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, let me give guidance.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: As I guided earlier, please, stick to the speech. Marry whatever you are bringing out to the speech.

You may continue.

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, I am talking about a vision. We have a leader with a vision. The leader came to this House and addressed the nation. He saw Zambia way back; twenty-three years ago. He continued to be persistent because he had a vision.

Madam Speaker, among the many things that the President addressed, I will not repeat them, but rather, I will take a few minutes to point out one or two issues.

First and foremost, the people of Solwezi East, in Mushindamo District, appreciate the intended delimitation of large constituencies. Mushindamo is a vast constituency. It borders with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Chingola, Chililabombwe, Lufwanyama, Kasempa, Solwezi Central and Kalumbila. We were so excited about the delimitation. Let me say, twaliumfwa amabwenge. Meaning we were so excited and we appreciate what the President pronounced and much more.

Madam Speaker, the people of the North-Western Province look forward to the day when the visionary President will divide their vast province into two provinces. They will also appreciate the constituencies that they have. So, having more constituencies means more development.  It is unfortunate for those without a vision, who do not appreciate the concept of delimitation.

Madam Speaker, another point I want to articulate is economic sabotage. The President mentioned that failure to utilise the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is tantamount to economic sabotage. The people of the North-Western Province and Mushindamo in particular, have done so much with the CDF. If people came to Mushindamo, they would be surprised to see what we have done in four years compared to what was done after Independence.  Mushindamo is vast and what has been done there is even broadcast on Parliament Television. We actually appreciate the President for saying that the CDF is a game changer because we have seen the change in Mushindamo. That is the way to go.

Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate for those who cannot appreciate or utilise the CDF. When the CDF is utilised completely, one can write to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to state what has been done.  The people of Zambia are seeing and have heard about those who are economically sabotaging this Government. For us, it is a plus and we are doing it.

Madam Speaker, another point I want to touch on briefly are democracy and Constitutionalism. His Excellency the President said that people should express themselves freely and responsibly. In addition, he also talked about all types of media in rural areas.  The allocation of the radio frequency to cover Parliamentary programmes was done by the previous Government. In the North-Western, the Western and the Southern provinces, only six radio frequencies were allocated. That is surprising. However, on the other side, it is different. The President said that we need to distribute resources equally across the nation. The people of Mushindamo expect to see more radio frequencies covering every part of Zambia so that the voices of Parliament, the President, and the leaders under the New Dawn Government can be heard across the nation.  As the House maybe aware, knowledge is power.

Madam Speaker, I want to end by commenting on legal issues. His Excellency the President said that justice delayed is justice denied.  The caseload in our Judiciary is so alarming. Our judges and the rest of the legal personnel get exhausted because of the increase in the number of cases. The House will recall that the President pronounced that within three months, cases should be disposed of. Currently, cases take one, two or five years to be disposed of. . There is a call to increase the number of judges. I am sure we appropriated the Budget. So, it is up to the Judiciary to increase the numbers of judges so that cases that are disposed of within the shortest possible time.

Madam Speaker, the speech came from a visionary leader, and the people of Solwezi East support it.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulunda (Siavonga): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity given to me to make a few comments on the speech delivered to this august House by His Excellency the President, on Friday, last week.

Madam Speaker, the speech was so inspirational. I wonder if there will be people who will be negative about the speech. The President is constitutionally mandated to update the nation on the Progress made in the Application of the National Values and Principles in this nation. So, the President came to this House to do just that. From what His Excellency the President said in this House, every level-headed person could be able to appreciate that indeed, this country is moving from point ‘a’ to ’b’ every year. The Government increases the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) every year. There is already a new figure for the CDF.  So, we have actually seen a lot of things happening.

Madam Speaker, under the Free Education Policy, which His Excellency the President spoke about, more than 200 of our children and citizens of this nation were out there without knowledge. Now, they are able to go to school. Through that policy, which the United Party for National Development (UPND), New Dawn Government has implemented, we have seen more than 2 million children going back to school. An educated nation is a developed one. This is the reason the President has consistently said that education is the best equaliser. We have seen people from underprivileged communities or families rising to be responsible citizens of this nation because of education.

Madam Speaker, when it comes to governance, we do not want to be reminded of what happened yesterday. At times, when I listen to the debates of some of our hon. Colleagues, I realise that there is something they miss.  They miss things they used to enjoy.  One thing this Government pronounced even before forming Government was to stop cadreism. It pronounced that violence would be a thing of the past. Of late, we have seen bloodless by-elections. I am reminded of what happened in Sesheke, Namalundu, Chilanga, Luanshya, and many other places, even in Ndola, where the then Opposition leader, the current Republican President had to go through the roof ...

Mr Mubika: Imagine!

Mr Mulunda: … and people were excited.

Madam Speaker, like the President mentioned, this country, under the UNPD New Dawn Government, voluntarily invited the United Nations (UN) Rapporteur to come and scrutinise or assess the nation’s current situation and where it was five years ago. People from a certain section were so excited because they thought they were going to influence the outcome of the assessment.

Madam Speaker, we know that our hon. Colleagues are frustrated.  When people do not have a political party or a leader, and that no one will sign the adoption certificate in the next twelve months, they have a reason to be disorganised at some point.

Madam Speaker, there are political orphans in this country and that is a fact.  The peace that we have today in this country is measured by the by-elections we had in Pambashe, Kawambwa and Petauke Central. During those elections, we saw the Opposition and the Ruling Party interacting and greeting. One of the witnesses of the peaceful by-elections is the hon. Member for Kaputa, and the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Art. They have no scratches. If it was during those days, it was going to be very dangerous to go to campaign for any by-election.

Hon. UPND Members: In Sesheke!

Mr Mulunda: Sesheke was a death trap. It was so dangerous. Just putting on a party regalia or a red attire was a death warrant for anyone. This time around, anybody can walk and say anything freely.

Madam Speaker, just last week, one Opposition political party leader appeared at our local radio station called Kariba FM. The never told him anything apart from acknowledging his presentation.  However, he was advised to behave like a councillor because he was once a Cabinet Minister, and that every challenge the country was going through was created by the same person who today, is coming as a saint to preach that he can lead this  country better than what we are seeing today.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Where we had no clinics and classrooms, today, we have them. There is no constituency which is not utilising the CDF. Some constituents are lamenting that all the contracts for projects have been terminated. Where is the leadership in those constituencies? How can they allow such a situation? How can a leader representing the people, getting the same amount as another leader, come to the House and say that projects are not being completed in constituencies? Who should be blamed? Should it be the Government or the leadership in a particular constituency?

Madam Speaker, the Government put in place measures during the terrible year 2024, when we had drought. There were many things that came upon our families, but the Government put many measures in place. One of the measures that the Government put in place was the Cash for Work programme. People in our communities were able to buy food because the money from the programme reached them. Today, through the CDF, we are able to send children who have never been to school or who reached Grade 7 for skills training. Some of them come back as welders. When we give them loans, they will be able to start businesses. They can start manufacturing window frames, door frames or anything metallic. At the end of the day, they will even be able to employ others. They will give employment to the locals.

Madam Speaker, when it comes to employment by the Government, every year, the Government employs teachers, health workers and defence personnel. We have seen that. We never saw it in the past. The advertisement for all these professions is placed in the public media. So, everybody is able to see that the Government wants to employ teachers, police officers or military personnel. That was unheard of in the past.

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. We know that this Government is in the right hands.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simunji (Nalikwanda): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me time to debate the Motion on the Floor.

Madam Speaker, I am so delighted that some people from the Opposition, on your left, debated delimitation and are against it. Today, look at the population we have and the one we had in 1964. I will give you the details from my own research. In 1964, we had a general election and there were seventy-five Members of Parliament. The population was 3,542,764. In 1991, when multi-party democracy was introduced, the number of Members of Parliament was increased. In between there were increases, but I am so particular with 1991. The number of Members of Parliament increased to 150, and the population was 7,880,466. In 2016, the number was increased from 150 to 156 Members of Parliament, and the population was 16,757,76. Now, when you look at the growth in the population, is it necessary for us to keep the number of Members of Parliament representing the population at hand static? In my opinion, it is very unrealistic because we are not going to represent the people properly. This is against the largest constituencies we have. If you go to Nalikwanda, you will find that it has eleven wards. Look at the sizes of those wards. It takes time to visit all of them. Even the terrain will not allow you to visit them all. People have been saying ‘let us go and commission the constituency office in Nalikwanda.’ People have been avoiding going there because the terrain is bad and the constituency is too huge. There is a need for us to agree and delimitate and increase the constituencies so that we can represent the people properly. I heard someone on the left say that we want to bring the Constitution here so that we delimitate the constituencies. Maybe, his constituency is too small, or it is within town and he is able to go around all the wards in two or three days. Now, the same hon. Members on the left are against bringing the Constitution here so that we can change it. I will define the Constitution for them so that they can understand. The constitution is a body of fundamental principles or established precedents according to which a state or organisation is governed. So, it is on this document that we shall base our delimitation, without bringing the Constitution here. Hon. Members should forget about delimitation of constituencies. We have to agree to come and change the Constitution so that we can delimitate the constituencies. Why should we change the Constitution? The reason we have to change the Constitution is to adjust the provisions that are inadequate to respond to new needs, including supplementing rights. Otherwise, it will not reflect social realities and political needs overtime. So, I am saying that the history of the numbers I gave you is now overruling what is in the Constitution. There is a need for us to amend the Constitution so that we can delimitate the constituencies. For me, there are two reasons we should change the Constitution. Firstly, the population has increased and, secondly, the constituencies are just too big.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, one hon. Member was talking about the violence which has been taking place during by-elections. My hon. Colleagues talked about it, but I will give them the exact dates and what happened. The by-election for council chairperson in Kaoma was deadly; a person was killed. In Livingstone Central, the by-election for Member of Parliament was deadly, and people were arrested for no reasons. As my friend said earlier, in Chilanga, on 11^th June, 2018, there was a by-election. It was violent and no one expected that people would come out very well. Let us go to Sesheke. Everyone here knows what happened there on 14^th February, 2019. People had to scamper. They went into a forest to hide. How the United Party for National Development (UPND) won that election, only God knows.

Madam Speaker, let me come to the current situation. I am coming from a by-election in Nalikwanda. I took photos with members of other political parties, and people were dancing and enjoying themselves. There was no fight. We had a by-election in Kawambwa; there were no fights. So, why should people talk about violence now? If there is any violence taking place now, it is better for political parties to ask for a convention, where their leaders will agree so that the violence comes to an end.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the good people of Mbabala, thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to support the excellent speech by President Hakainde Hichilema to this august House, on the progress made in the application of the National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, if one listened to the speech or read it, definitely, one would appreciate and know that we are making a lot of progress in addressing the national values. There are six national values, and they are clearly outlined. Therefore, an hon. Member cannot say that we hear the same things every time because the national values are the same. There are six National Values and Principles and it is our responsibility, as citizens, to practice them. The President just reports the progress we are making in implementing and practising them. Maybe, it is a situation in which some hon. Members who debate in this House actually need to be counselled. One of the actions mentioned in the President’s Speech in maintaining morality and ethics includes the fight against alcoholism and substance abuse, which seem to have affected some hon. Members who were debating. It appears that they did not listen to the speech and they need to be counselled.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mbabala!

Please, do not bring the other hon. Members into your debate.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I am trying to help my hon. Colleagues because they need help. Recently, law enforcement agencies arrested 7,000 people for drug trafficking and 4,000 people were counselled. Further, a number of children were withdrawn from child marriages. So, as a member of a project co-ordination committee (PPC), I am happy with such developments. It is in that context that I said that hon. Members who did not listen to the President’s Speech need help. They also need that kind of support.

Madam Speaker, on patriotism and national unity, I support His Excellency the President’s words on maintaining our national symbols; the Coat of Arms, the National Anthem and the National Flag. Some people have been pedalling lies that the national symbols have been changed. The lies have even spread towards money. Someone said that the new banknotes have the Head of State’s face on them, and yet the Ministry of Finance and National Planning clearly circulated the samples. The President appreciates the fact that our currency is part of our national symbols and assets.

Madam Speaker, we have ‘ambassadors of lies’, who just want to mislead the public because they are not patriotic. Those people must be visited by law enforcement agencies. When they are visited, they should not start crying about human rights and freedom of expression. As a transparent Government, we invited Ms Irene Khan, the United Nations (UN) Special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of the right to freedom of expression and opinion, to look into our human rights record in the area of freedom of expression in relation to democracy and constitutionalism. That is a demonstration of self-reflection and peer review. It has demonstrated that, as a Government, we are doing an excellent job in terms of upholding democracy and human rights. The freedoms which our people are enjoying countrywide are in public discussions. So, there is freedom of expression and human rights.

Madam Speaker, on national unity, peace and prosperity, I wish to say that we have seen hate speech being glorified by some sections. Some political parties even claim that those who peddle hate speech are their members. That is a total disgrace to such a political party, and it is a political party that cannot attract membership because one cannot glorify that kind of talk in public.

Madam Speaker, I also want to talk about the continuous voter registration exercise. Indeed, there is a need for people to continue registering to vote in order to maintain the good New Dawn Government of the United Party for National Development (UPND). This is a Government that is working and has delivered to the people of Mbabala 100 per cent. We have seen an increase in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) allocation, which we are ably using to build ourselves major assets, such as the Mahobwe Clinic. We have also built a maternity wing in Mbabala Ward and police stations in Chilantambo Ward and Macha Ward. We have also constructed various dip tanks and classrooms, such as the 1 x 3 classroom block at Ndawana Primary School. We have also graded roads and constructed news which were not there, like the Mayobo Road and Nalitupba Road. So, we are seeing progress.

Madam Speaker, we wish the CDF allocation could be increased further so that we can benefit more and complement other activities that are going on, which the Government has set up, such as the Social Cash Transfer (SCT) Scheme and the Cash-for-Work Programme, as well as the Free Education Policy that is serving our people. We have complemented the Free Education Policy by buying desks to accommodate many children. As we speak, every child sits on a desk in Mbabala Constituency. So, the benefits are reaching our people. Those are the values we have brought to this country. Instead of children sitting on the floor in school, the way it used to be under the previous regime, which did not respect the dignity of children, now they sit on desks. They have teachers and enough classroom space because we respect their dignity.

Madam Speaker, many good things are happening, including the School Feeding Programme, which has helped take back over 2 million children to school, who were previously left out. Some people claim that free education has brought overcrowding in schools. They would prefer children to be at home or to be ba kaponya, junkies or drunks, ba ng’wang’wanzi, something they glorified during their time in power. That was the worst this country has ever seen and we should never have a Government like the dead and gone Patriotic Front (PF) again. It should never resurrect in this country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, permit me to comment on the President’s Speech, starting with the point on page 3 on morality and ethics. In this regard, I would like to speak a bit on what the hon. Member for Mbabala has mentioned, condemned and intended to address; the issue of alcohol consumption among youths or young people. The hon. Member said that the Government is doing everything necessary to deter those vices. How I wish the hon. Member also included the aspect of the number of hon. Members who change jezebels and harlots at the Speaker’s residence.

Madam Speaker, as I support –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lumezi!

I did not catch what you said. What is at the Speaker’s residence?

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I was talking about the place where hon. Members are accommodated and the word ‘jezebel’ is biblical and so is the word ‘harlot’. I am just trying to amplify what the hon. Member for Mbabala mentioned. One cannot condemn one ugly act and then be mute about another ugly act.

Madam Speaker, the President spoke about peaceful elections in his speech. Hon. Mtayachalo’s vehicle –

Mr Anakoka interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, I guided you much earlier. Please, focus your debate on the President’s Speech. Whatever issues you are bringing up should be married to the content of the President’s Speech. I do not know how the Speaker’s residence comes in. Is it anywhere in the speech? Did the President mention it? Hon. Member, withdraw that point and then continue. Let us not debate ourselves. What the other hon. Member mentioned in his debate are his views. You can also concentrate on your views as you focus on the President’s Speech. Withdraw what you have said about the Speaker’s residence and the name “Jezebel”.

You may continue.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, with your guidance, I withdraw.

Madam Speaker, on page 13, the President spoke about peaceful elections, and I tend to wonder. A vehicle for one of your hon. Member’s, Hon. Mtayachalo was damaged by a gunshot in the past Petauke Central by-election. So, where is the sincerity?

Madam Speaker, for the record, I must mention that from whatever the President said, the most progressive statement I got was on delimitation. So, I will mix my submission to delimitation based on morality and ethics with the trend. Lumezi Constituency, as a matter of fact, sits on 9,774 km². Similarly, Chadiza Constituency sits on 1,593 km². For an hon. Member of Parliament from Chadiza to be in this House, he won with only forty-two votes. However, for the hon. Member for Lumezi to sit in this House, he poured above 10,000 votes. So, when we agree with the President on the delimitation –

Interruptions

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, Chadiza is not an individual. It is a constituency.

Eng. J. Daka: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Eng. J. Daka: Madam Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order. I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 71, which provides for hon. Members to be factual.

Madam Speaker, no hon. Member of Parliament came from Chadiza after winning with forty-two votes. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to insinuate and mislead this House and the nation at large by saying that an hon. Member of Parliament won with forty-two votes to come to Parliament?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling and indulgence on this matter.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

I think, I had guided earlier. This is the problem of bringing in issues that are not in the President's Speech. Why are we discussing the 2021 elections when we are not so sure of the figures?

Hon. Member for Lumezi, I guided that as you debate, be factual and, please, avoid bringing other hon. Members into your debate. There is only one hon. Member of Parliament for Chadiza. So, when you mention the hon. Member for Chadiza, people will know that you are talking about Hon. J. Daka. So, please, stick to the President’s Speech and be factual.

You may continue.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I sympathise with my hon. Colleague because I was trying to support the President’s opinion on delimitation, knowing very well that I have the facts from the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ). To give facts –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I guided that do not debate your –

Mr Munir Zulu: I am not debating an individual, Madam Speaker. Chadiza is a constituency. It is not a person.

Hon. Government Member: What of Lumezi?

Mr Munir Zulu: I can mention Lumezi as well.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I have guided enough. Do not debate other hon. Members of Parliament. Go straight to your debate with your views. If you want to give an example, please, use Lumezi.

You may continue.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, permit me to finish supporting what the President said. Then, I can be interjected. In this fashion, you will not get my foundation.

Madam Speaker, certain decisions we support the President on are not because of not being popular in our respective constituencies. We cannot have a situation in which the United Party for National Development (UPND) gets 9,354 votes, an Independent Member gets 9,100 votes and the Patriotic Front (PF) gets 9,396 votes. These are ECZ results. They are not my results. This shows that people are trying to convince the UPND using the wrong methodologies by supporting the President’s Speech with numbers that do not support their popularity.

Madam Speaker, I agree with the delimitation.

Interruptions

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, they will rebut if need be. I am supporting the President on delimitation. No doubt whatsoever. I support the President 100 per cent, but I will not accept that someone who defeated the UPND with forty-two votes should come here to be seen as a champion, ah uh! Then we are doing a disservice to the President.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: The President knows the people with numbers out there. We should not come here and sugar-coat numbers. Numbers do not lie. The President is consistent. He always says that numbers do not lie. The numbers are here. This data (while pointing at his cellular phone) is from the ECZ.

Madam Speaker, the only challenge I have is that the President should have also condemned his hon. Members. He should have, at least, congratulated Lumezi. It is number one on the Presidential Delivery Unit (PDU) in the Eastern Province. He should have congratulated us. Lumezi is number one on Transparency International Zambia (TIZ) analysis of all constituencies' utilisation rate of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) funds on community projects. Other constituencies are trending on social media that they share CDF projects with girlfriends. I –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, you are now going off the debate.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I am concluding due to –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Did the President mention anything concerning the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and girlfriends for you to inform the nation?

Mr Munir Zulu: No, the President spoke about the CDF enhancement, which I appreciate because I am number one when it comes to the utilisation of the CDF. You cannot take it away from me.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That point is not from the President’s Speech either. It is outside information. If I wanted, I would have asked you to lay evidence on the Floor.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I am even better than the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development with regard to the CDF utilisation.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, for the last time, stick to the speech.

Mr Munir Zulu: Yes, Madam Speaker. You have made my job very difficult today.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, it is because you are going off topic. You are not even supposed to engage me. I am only supposed to guide you. Those are the rules of the House. We are not supposed to engage one another or exchange words. You are only supposed to be guided because the people are listening. They want to hear your views about the President’s Speech. However, when you bring in other issues, which were not mentioned or are not related to the President’s Speech, I am afraid, I have to curtail or guide you. That is my job and why I am seated here. I have to ensure that you are debating in the right direction. So, I am not making your life difficult. I am only putting you in the right direction, in terms of how the debate should be. So, for the last time, please, be focused. We have wasted so much time and we have one more hon. Member who wants to debate.

You may continue.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the moment you see that hon. Members on your right are not raising points of order, just know that they are enjoying the debate.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, that is how much they love my level of engagement with them. I did not know that there was an issue of social justice on page 18 of the speech.  I wish His Excellency the President amplified it because we have seen a silent fight between the Catholic faith and some members of the Executive.  That must be addressed because the Catholic faith addresses social justice, which the Executive intends to implement. We hope that will be addressed because we do not want to see issues escalating beyond the interactions that people have. 

Madam Speaker, I end my submission in this particular fashion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you. I will not comment on the Catholic faith because I am Catholic. The hon. Ministers will do. 

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute on the Motion of Thanks.

Madam Speaker, in 2006, when a delegation from Kenya visited Zambia, it got the document that stipulated the implementation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in Zambia. When that delegation went back to Kenya, what we are doing here in Zambia was implemented there.  About twenty years later, Kenya's economy is more than that of Zambia. Its GDP is currently at about US$100 billion while Zambia’s is at US$27 billion. In that document, there was a recommendation that beyond increasing the CDF, there was a need to increase the number of constituencies in Zambia. When the Kenyans went to back, they also increased the number of constituencies from 145 to 290.

Madam Speaker, that has helped Kenya to ensure that its resources quickly got to the corners of the country. Its GDP has grown and is benefiting everyone. The poverty levels in Kenya have started reducing. The President proposed the delimitation of constituencies in Zambia. That is not just an idea or a wish but, something that has worked in Kenya.  So, I want to urge every meaningful hon. Member of Parliament present here that the issue of delimitation is not only for us as hon. Members of Parliament, but for that child in Lufwanyama and Lundazi; that mother and farmer in Petauke, who is looking for resources to quickly increase productivity in order to contribute to the GDP of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, whenever the President is speaking, all I see in him is sincerity, and the wish to leave a better Zambia than he found it.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabeta: The President knows exactly where we went wrong and what we need to do right as a people.  I want to urge all the Zambians out there to trust the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema. What he is proposing is nothing different. It has nothing to do with winning an election. We do not need to win an election through delimitation. In 2021, President Hakainde Hichilema won in 110 constituencies. So, we do not need to chase numbers anymore because in 2021, Zambians already spoke and gave the President the mandate beyond the total number of the United Party for National Development (UPND) hon. Members of Parliament.

So, when it comes to delimitation, he is here for the benefit of everybody, both on the right and on the left. Delimitation is there to ensure that our economy grows beyond that of Lusaka and the Copperbelt.  The economic growth in Zambia is driven by the Copperbelt and the Lusaka. The GDP does not reduce poverty in Shang’ombo or Vubwi. So, if we want to work, let us grow together because everybody contributes to the national growth.  So, let us delimitate our constituencies.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1855 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 13^th March, 2025.

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