Friday, 21^st February, 2025

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

PRESENCE IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM NDOLA TRUST SCHOOL

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Ndola Trust School in Ndola District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors into our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

COMMONWEALTH PARLIAMENTARIANS WITH DISABILITIES CONFERENCE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the Commonwealth Parliamentarians with Disabilities (CPwD) African Region, Zambian Branch, will host the 3^rd Commonwealth Parliamentarians with Disabilities Conference from 24^th to 28^th February, 2025, under the theme “Breaking Barriers, Building Inclusive Parliaments for Persons with Disabilities” at Ciela Resort in Chongwe District.

The aim of the conference is to address issues related to disability, inclusion and empowerment, and to provide a platform for Parliamentarians to engage in meaningful dialogue, share experiences and collaborate on strategies to create more inclusive legislative bodies across the Commonwealth. Delegates will be drawn from the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA) member countries in the African region.

Selected Members of Parliament have been nominated to participate in this conference.

I thank you.

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RULING BY MADAM SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR B. MPUNDU, MEMBER FOR NKANA CONSTITUENCY, ON MR E. DAKA, MEMBER FOR MZANZALA CONSTITUENCY, MR D. MUNG’ANDU, MEMBER FOR CHAMA SOUTH, MR A. LUBOSHA, MEMBER FOR CHIPANGALI CONSTITUENCY AND MR JONATHAN BANDA FOR ALLEGEDLY CROSSING THE FLOOR BY ADDRESSING UNITED PARTY FOR NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT (UPND) OFFICIALS DURING THE 6^TH FEBRUARY, 2025, PARLIAMENTARY BY-ELECTION IN PETAUKE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Wednesday, 12^th February, 2025, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 171 and Hon. M. Chikote, MP, Minister of Energy was responding to a Supplementary Question raised by Mr J. Chibuye, hon. Member of Parliament for Roan Constituency, Mr B. Mpundu, hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana Constituency, raised a point of order.

Hon. B. Mpundu's point of order was premised on Article 72(2) of the Constitution of Zambia, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia, which provides for the vacation of office of a Member of Parliament.

Hon. Members, in raising the point of order, Hon. B. Mpundu explained that Mr E. Daka, Member of Parliament for Mzanzala Constituency, Mr D. Mung’andu, Member of Parliament for Chama South, Mr A Lubusha, Member of Parliament for Chipangali Constituency and Mr Jonathan Banda, a Member who does not exist in our records addressed officials of the UPND during the 6^th February, 2025 Parliamentary by-election in Petauke Central Constituency. He added that this was a party that did not sponsor their candidacy to the National Assembly.

Hon. Members, Mr B. Mpundu, MP, placed reliance on two cases namely the Attorney-General versus Akashambatwa Mbikusita Lewanika and the Attorney-General versus Chishimba Kambwili, which he stated provided guidance on what amounts to crossing the Floor of the House and the consequences of crossing the Floor.

Mr B. Mpundu, MP, further stated, in his point of order, that he had evidence of the four mentioned hon. Members of Parliament addressing the officials of the UPND, which he could lay on the Table of the House. 

Hon. Members, Mr B. Mpundu, MP, alleged that the conduct of the four hon. Members of Parliament was against the Constitution and therefore, requested the Hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker to consequently declare their seats vacant. In her immediate response, hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker reserved her ruling to enable her to study the matter. I have since studied the matter and I now render my ruling.

Hon. Members, the point of order raised by Mr B. Mpundu, MP, raises the issue of a Member of Parliament sponsored by a political party crossing the Floor.

Hon. Members, Order No. 140(1) (e) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, is instructive on admissibility of points of order. Standing Order 140(1)(e) provides as follows: 

“140. (1) A point of order may be admissible if-

                (e)       it does not relate to a general interpretation of a written law.”

Further, in the case of the Attorney-General vs Chishimba Kambwili (2019/CCZ/009) the Constitutional Court, at page J37, stated as follows:

“…the function of interpreting the law and the Constitution is vested in the Judiciary as provided by Article 119 of the Constitution.”

Hon. Members, on this premise, the request by Mr B. Mpundu, MP, that I examine the actions of the three named Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members of Parliament and consequently declare their seats vacant relates to general interpretation of a written law. This is because determining whether the three hon. Members of Parliament had crossed the Floor as alleged would require me to examine the purported evidence, which Mr B. Mpundu, MP, has not produced and consider it in light of the provisions of Article 72(2) of the Constitution.

Therefore, hon. Members, it is clear that the request for my office to declare the seats of the three hon. Members of Parliament vacant does not fall within my jurisdiction. By declaring the seats vacant, I would be usurping the function of the Judiciary as guided by the Constitution Court, Standing Orders and as espoused in the Chishimba Kambwili case, supra.

Hon. Members, I, therefore, hold that the point of order by Mr B. Mpundu, MP, is inadmissible as it relates to a general interpretation of a written law.

In conclusion, I wish to take this opportunity to advise you, hon. Members and reiterate that it is important for you to familiarise yourselves with the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, as they regulate and govern Parliamentary Business.

I thank you.

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BUSINESS STATEMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, the House Business Committee met on Thursday, 20^th February, 2025, to determine and schedule Business of the House for the period 25^th February, 2025, to 7^th March, 2025.

Madam Speaker, the House Business Committee resolved to lay before the House the following Business for consideration in the next two weeks:

Announcements

The Hon. Speaker may make announcements to the House on any day when it is necessary to do so.

Rulings

The Hon. Speaker will render rulings, if there will be any.

Ministerial Statements

Hon. Ministers will render Ministerial Statements on topical issues, if there will be any.

Bills

The following Bills will be considered:

1. The Cyber Security Bill No. 29 of 2024, Second Reading, date yet to be determined;
2. The Cyber Crimes Bill No. 30 of 2024, Second Reading, date yet to be determined;
3. The Penal Code (Amendment) Bill No. 17 of 2024, Second Reading, date yet to be determined;
4. The Plant Health Bill, No. 20 of 2024, Committee Stage, on 27^th February, 2025; and
5. The Geological and Minerals Development Bill No. 33 of 2024, Second Reading, on 4^th March, 2025.

Reports on International Conferences

Reports on International Conferences will be considered, if there will be any.

Parliamentary Committee Reports

The following Committee Reports will be considered during the period:

Subject Matter                                  Name of Committee                            Date of                                                                                              Consideration

Ratification of                                   Committee on                                     Date is yet to

Membership to the Africa50            National Economy and                       be determined

Fund Articles of                               Labour Matters

Association for Project

Development and Finance

Agreement on the                             Committee on                                     Date is yet to

Operationalisation of                        National Economy                              be determined

the SADC Region                             and Labour Matters    

Development Fund

Questions for Oral Answer and Written Answer

Hon. Ministers will respond to forty-nine Questions for Oral Answer and Questions for Written Answer. The list of the questions will be circulated to all hon. Members, as an appendix to this statement. Further, details of the questions are contained in the Notice of Questions of 13^th September, 2024, circulated to all hon. Members earlier.

Questions on Standby

The questions on standby to replace questions that may not be placed on the Order Paper on the designated day due to unforeseen circumstances have also been set in an appendix, which will be circulated to all hon. Members.

Suspension of Standing Orders

On Thursday 27^th February, 2025, I will move a Motion to suspend relevant Standing Orders, such as those relating to the Vice-President’s Question Time and suspension of Business at 1040 hours, to enable the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, to address the House on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principals on Friday, 28^th February, 2025.

The President’s Address

The President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, will address the House on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles on Friday, 28^th February, 2025.

Motion of Thanks

The Motion of Thanks on the President’s Address will commence on Tuesday, 4^th March, 2025, and will continue for ten Sitting days up to Wednesday, 20^th March, 2025.

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the House Business Committee and in accordance with Order No. 44 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, I have the pleasure to present the business of the next two weeks to this august House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

There were no indications for Urgent Matters Without Notice.

Madam Speaker: Is this redundant now we move to the next item?

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Sialubalo (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, thank you so much, and good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, in the year 2024, Zambia had a terrible drought. I would like to thank the Government for the measures it took, such as the Cash-For-Work programme and increased maize sale points in our respective districts, to mention a few.

Madam Speaker, this year, so far, indicators show that we are likely to have a bumper harvest. However, areas like Sinazongwe, Gwembe and part of the Eastern Province have experienced flash floods. Will the Government continue taking the measures it took in 2024 to mitigate food shortages, so that the people in the areas that have experienced flash floods can continue to have food?

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that question. He has taken note of the fact that we had a severe drought. Indeed, we thank our God, and we also thank the leadership of this country through Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the President of the Republic, for putting in place interventions that have helped us to survive without too much suffering and probably even loss of life.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member referred to the expected bumper harvest. I agree with him. He also took note of certain areas that seem to have floods. Indeed, a few areas may have had wilted maize because of the prolonged dry spell. The hon. Member’s concern has been the concern throughout. Every year, after it rains, when we learn of areas that may have suffered something, we follow through. In fact, there is always a rapid assessment of the food security situation. We also undertake a vulnerability assessment of the food security situation in the country, in places where people do not have enough. This happens all the time. I am sure, you remember that even before the drought, you would guide hon. Members to come to my office to ask for help when the people had food insecurity. We do this because it is within the function of the Government. We will continue to support our people who genuinely go through a difficult time with food production. I assure the hon. Member that we will assess the situation and be available as we always do.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mandandi (Sioma): Madam Speaker, it might appear as though each time I rise on the Floor of the House, the only matter I discuss is the human-animal conflict. However, I have no option but to address that matter.

Madam Speaker, firstly, I wish to thank the Government for the interventions it put in place to ensure that the people of Sioma were well taken care of during the last farming season when we experienced a severe drought. I appreciate the Cash-For-Work programme and many other interventions that were put in place. We are still enjoying the benefits of those interventions. However, the people of Sioma today woke up to a rude shock. The people around Nalwashi Ward, Sioma Ward and Nangweshi Ward found their fields invaded by herds of elephants. This defeats the whole purpose of farming. There is a likelihood that we will continue knocking on the doors of the Government so that it can continue implementing the social programmes. What interventions is the Government putting in place to ensure that people living in Game Management Areas (GMAs), such as ourselves, do not waste their efforts by protecting their fields and crops from destruction by the jumbos?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Sioma for that question. He asks that question almost every time. Other than the destruction of crops, I think, we have heard that people have been attacked by animals. Whether we like it or not, human-animal conflicts have become rampant. The Government is working on measures to address the problem. I cannot give one answer, because I think that we have to see exactly how we can tackle the issue of human-animal conflict. I will consult further on this matter. I heard that some animals are made by humans, and they also attack people. It is important to have a clear position on this matter, but I do not have it right now. I am sorry.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President has consistently assured the nation on the Floor of the House of the Government's commitment to fighting corruption. She has also said that there will not be any sacred cow in that pursuit. Whistle-blowers have raised two corruption red flags in the energy sector; firstly, the contract awarded to Agro-Fuel Investments to clean the pipeline. Subsequently, the dead stock has never been declared and, secondly, the contractor was overpaid. That amounts to corruption and criminality, but no action has been taken.

Madam Speaker, ZESCO Limited used to transmit electricity to the mines in the North-Western Province. Today, ZESCO Limited has put a middleman called Kanona Energy to sell its power to the mines in the North-Western Province. The whistle-blowers have raised red flags that the two activities are corrupt and need to be investigated. Has the Government dropped the flag in the fight against corruption? Mwaliponya flag in the fight against corruption?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Nkana for raising that question. Every question here helps us to clear up issues if we can. We respond to the concerns of the people.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member started with the fact that we have assured the people, particularly through this august House, that we will fight corruption. I will still repeat that the Government will fight corruption. There will be no sacred cow regarding this issue. He has asked me about these issues. I can quickly say that what the whistle-blowers say – He called the people who write on social media ‘whistle-blowers.’

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

The Vice-President: Oh, to whom did they write?

I am not aware. In fact, –

Mr Chisopa interjected.

The Vice-President: That is true, hon. Member.

Madam Speaker, I have been briefed today that some hon. Colleagues have written to the Chief Justice to have the matter settled in court. The matter is sub judice, so I do not know how far it has gone and I cannot discuss it.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: That is the brief I got.

Madam Speaker, if it is not sub judice, another Friday will come. I will not respond because the fact is that there is no overpayment. I do not want to go into those issues with the information I got this morning. I am bound so I will wait. If it is not sub judice, we will still talk about it here.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, thank you very much, and good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, today, I will take Her Honour the Vice-President to health matters. Cancer is a big problem in the country. I recall that when Hon. Sylvia Masebo was the Minister of Health, she told us that the Government was about to procure machines for treating cancer patients through radiotherapy. So, I want to find out the progress made on the acquisition of the said machines and the chemicals used in the treatment of cancer.

Madam Speaker: Sometimes, questions that are so specific can put Her Honour the Vice-President in an awkward position. The questions should rather be of a general policy nature. So, when an hon. Member asks a specific question like that, it is a bit of a challenge.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, you will have to forgive me. I do not have to dream the answer when I can consult my hon. Ministers who are here. We have to try to give facts. I think, that is important and that is what Standing Order No. 71 provides; speaking to facts.  Sometimes, I do not have the answers and, therefore, hon. Ministers help me.

Madam Speaker, the issue of cancer is, indeed, a very serious one and it has become more rampant. I agree with the hon. Member that there are so many cancer cases in our country. Therefore, there is a need for preparation. Yes, the hon. Minister told us that there will be procurement of radiotherapy machines for cancer patients who go through chemotherapy and I am informed that the machines are now in. We are working on expanding –

Mr Mutale: Question!

The Vice-President: Yes, that is what I have been told. We are working on expanding the rooms because there are specific rooms used for radiotherapy. So, we are working on ensuring that the machinery can be installed properly and in the correct rooms. That is what is left. We will work as hard as we can to quickly install the machines because it is very expensive to send people to other countries for radiotherapy. It is expensive for the Government and all of us as taxpayers. Therefore, we are working as quickly as we can to ensure that the building is properly constructed for the installation of the machinery.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, before we proceed, let me just give some general guidance on questions to the Vice-President. I will refer to Standing Order No. 87, in particular, sub-paragraph 2, which states:

“A question to the Vice-President shall be based on a matter of public policy.”

So, please, as we ask questions, let us not be specific. It should be on a matter of public policy in accordance with our Standing Orders.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, it is an undeniable fact that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government inherited a broken economy, which was coupled with the drought situation we experienced in 2024. Ever since the UPND Government took over from the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, the people of Zambia have been struggling. We know that, at the moment, the Government is putting in place some interventions to tackle the situation we are in today, which resulted from the previous Government’s careless borrowing from international lenders.

Madam Speaker, what interventions is the Government putting in place to ensure that the situation we are in today, which is as a result of the careless borrowing of the PF and a broken economy that we found, is arrested? May Her Honour the Vice-President kindly help us to educate the people of Zambia, especially the Opposition hon. Members of Parliament, by telling them some of the interventions the Government is taking to better the lives of the people.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you for guiding us on the kind of questions I am supposed to be asked. For example, it is difficult for me to answer a question like how far the construction of the roof at a school has gone or many such things.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, there are many interventions that this Government has put in place to address the situation in which we found ourselves when we took over the Government. Today, we are in a place where I would say we have managed the situation.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member talked about over borrowing and the drought. Today, Zambians are still alive. Although we are in a difficult situation, we are alive because of the many interventions that have been put in place. The first one I can think of, if we go back to the past, is the fact that we have restructured and are still restructuring the national debt. Some people may underplay that milestone, but it is very important for all of us as Zambian people. If we had not restructured the national debt, what would we be doing? It is important to know the size of our economy or just the Budget itself. We would be spending the entire Budget on two items; the repayment of debt and wages for civil servants. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is listening. He should bear with me and if I am misleading the House, he will correct me. That is where we would have been. We would only be managing to repay the debt monthly.

Madam Speaker, as I stated, the other thing we would be managing to do is to pay the wages of civil servants. However, even with just those two items, we would still have a deficit of 4 per cent to pay the wages. That means we would do nothing else. We would not even be talking about buying cancer machines. We would not be talking about free education, construction of roads and schools or anything else. So, the debt restructuring that we have done is the baseline for us to try and curb the negative situation that we found ourselves in. I am stating facts here.

Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of this opportunity to also talk about the cost of living. There has been a lot of talk about that issue. Yes, we agree that the cost of living has gone up. For some people, it is like this Government is sleeping and doing nothing about the cost of living. However, this Government has done so much to allow Zambians to live, or, at least, to survive. That is because of the many interventions that it has put in place. When hon. Colleagues talk about the cost of living, I think, it is important to hear what they would have done. I think, they would have gone into talking about books on things that do not work.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, when you have a high cost of commodities, there are two things you can do. I did not go to a school of economics, but I know kitchen table economics, also known as Nalumangonomics.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, if nobody popularises it, I will do it myself.

Hon. Opposition Member interjected.

Laughter

The Vice-President: The hon. Member should listen.

Madam Speaker, there are two main ways in which you can reduce the cost for the consumer …

Interruptions

The Vice-President: … in my economics. We are talking of cost. That is the price, …

Mr Mukosa interjected.

The Vice-President: … accountant from Chinsali. You reduce the cost. You say ‘cut the price.’

Laughter

The Vice-President: I am using ordinary language, which a Zambian understands. If this water is K2 (raised a bottle of water) …

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: … and you want to reduce its cost –

Interruptions

The Vice-President: That is what you are saying. How do we reduce the cost of living? So, let us put all the food in there, but using this example.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: I am answering the question.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Allow me to answer.

If this bottle of water is K2, there are two ways you can reduce the price, if a buyer says that it is unaffordable. When a buyer says that it is unaffordable, and you are a regulator, you are the Government, you are not the manufacturer, how can you reduce the price? You can say ‘yes, we can reduce the price, but how do you do it when you are not the manufacturer? So, one way to reduce the cost is to reduce the price.

Interruptions

Laughter

The Vice-President: I am talking to the Zambians.

Now, that is not possible in an economy. We cannot just say ‘reduce the cost of fuel.’ Can we just say that? Can we declare that, or make a pronouncement? How do you reduce the cost of fuel when it is not you who is manufacturing the fuel? So, it is impossible.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: I am explaining my economics to you. So, what do you do then? It is impossible to just declare that the price of a product has been reduced from K2 to K1. Did you make this (raised a bottle of water)?

Hon. UPND Members: No!

The Vice-President: So, why I am saying this? Many goods in the country have a source. The production of the goods has a cost, so you cannot just say stop bringing expensive fuel.

Mr Amutike: Mwamvela!

The Vice-Presidents: You still need the fuel. You still need the water (raised a bottle of water). Since I am a concerned person in the Government, we have put in place many interventions. We have empowered buyers with the resources to be able to buy goods.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Mawe!

The Vice-President: I do not care about your formulas, I am telling you reality.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: What formula are you using?

The Vice-President: I have not used your formula, my son from Lunte, but I am telling you reality.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Mawe!

The Vice-President: Even though some of you went to school, you think you can just say ‘reduce.’ You cannot reduce the price of any product by declaring ‘reduce.’ So, the Government is empowering people to have the resources to buy goods.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Therefore, what has the Government done to empower people? One is job creation.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: You have to create jobs so that people can get the money to buy that which they need.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: I bring simplicity to issues so that anybody can understand. The Government is aware of certain costs. So, number one, it has empowered people by –

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

The Vice-President: There is no point of order, just sit.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

We are not here to play or make jokes. This is a serious session, and members –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Members of the public want to hear the answers to the questions. All we are getting is a lot of chatting from that corner especially (pointed at the left). The people seated there are senior hon. Members of the House. People expect more from you. Instead, you are making noise and running commentaries. That is not acceptable, hon. Members. Behave in a dignified manner. The running commentaries will not help us at all.

Hon. Member for Mkushi North, you are standing during –

Hon. Member: Mkushi South.

Madam Speaker: Mkushi South. No, it is Mkushi North.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Okay, Mkushi South. Why were you rising, hon. Member?

Mr Chisopa rose.

Madam Speaker: You know that this is a session where there are no points of order.

Mr Chisopa resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: They disrupt the session.

You are a former hon. Minister and a senior hon. Member of the House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: We expect more from you. Lead by example, hon. Member.

Can we have order, please.

May Her Honour the Vice-President continue.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I bring things for the understanding of the educated, the learned, anybody. We are dealing with the cost of living. What do you do about it? You empower people by creating jobs. We have created plenty of jobs. The Government makes an enabling environment for job creation, but has also directly employed over 80,000 people in different sectors since it came to office. This is reality. You can go to the ministries in charge of education, health, defence, security and other sectors and you will find that we have employed over 80,000 people. We have created an environment for job creation and jobs are being created in many places. I can give examples. Whether you like it or not, people have been empowered in the mining sector.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Yes!

The Vice-President: We have created jobs through mines. The mining industry is growing and creating jobs.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: That is true. Do you come from Luanshya? Honestly, you do not know that Shaft No. 28 has employed people?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: You come from Mumbwa. You do not know that Kitumba Mine has employed people.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: You come from the North-Western Province, but you do not know that Super Pit at Lumwana Mine has created jobs.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: You come from the North-Western Province, but you do not know that Nickel Mine has created jobs.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Oh, maybe, you come from Mufumbwe, but you do not know that Kalengwa Mine is opening and creating jobs.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Are you not aware that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development has given artisanal mining licences to Zambians?

Hon. PF Member interjected.

The Vice-President: Yes, we are working on it together with you to ensure sanity in this field. That is empowerment to Zambians so that they can buy water (raised a bottle of water).

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: This is an example.

We have done that. Whether you like it or not, we have re-opened and re-launched Mopani Copper Mines (MCM). Are there no jobs?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: They are.

The Vice-President: Konkola Copper Mines Plc (KCM), are there no jobs there?

Hon. UPND Members: They are there.

The Vice-President: MCM has paid the contractors who had remained on stones for a long time. When you pay contractors like that, is that not empowering somebody to buy water?

Madam Speaker, honestly, let us be sincere. So much has been done. Councils have been paid by the mines in their locations. When councils are paid by the mines, you understand that there is a trickle-down effect to individuals who work in those councils. This is how we are tackling the issues. These are the interventions. Other than the direct interventions, the jobs I am talking about have a ripple effect because when a contractor is paid, he also pays his workers. It is more money in the economy, not in some people’s pockets.

Hon. Colleagues, where we are doing well, please, appreciate and tell us ‘you are right, here. Maybe, we are wrong, here.’

Mr Simumba: Okay, sorry!

The Vice-President: We would not be here if we had continued on the trajectory that hon. Colleagues left us on.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: The world has become rough. Global issues are rough. You have seen that the cost of living is rising everywhere, yet here, in this country, we are holding it.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: I do not think I can go through all of them, but we have so much.

Madam Speaker, the last Friday I was here for this segment, I went through a number of interventions meant to tackle the cost of living. For instance, education is free. Parents would have been paying school fees, but the Government intervened and it is paying for children’s education. Is that not a measure to cushion the cost for one who is supposed to pay for education? Of course, we have interventions that everyone agrees on, such as the enhanced Social Cash Transfer Scheme to tackle the drought situation. We now have community sales, which are literally in hon. Member’s constituencies. Those interventions are helping. I use plain language because I did not go to a school of economics, but I understand what it is happening. Do hon. Colleagues understand that when we empower people, even under the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), we are actually tackling the cost of living? Honestly, it would be hypocritical – Sorry, is the word ‘hypocritical’ allowed?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Yes!

The Vice-President: Okay, thank you, hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, it would be hypocritical for people to say that we are not tackling the cost of living when we are giving people loans to grow a little of their companies or enterprises. I also talked about community sales, which are in hon. Member’s constituencies. Somebody asked me about corruption. Do hon. Colleagues know that fighting corruption is very important in curbing the high cost of living because where there is corruption, it means that everything is in disarray? Even products become unnecessarily expensive when corruption is around.

Madam Speaker, we have done so much, and I think that Zambians are watching and seeing our efforts. I have heard that people somewhere are saying that this Government is so caring. Do hon. Colleagues know that under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services we are looking after pregnant mothers?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: So, imita ufole, which means get pregnant and get a little.

Madam Speaker, that is what we are doing and it is a lot. I will end there so that hon. Members can ask more questions, but really, this is a topic that we can talk about the whole day because so much has been done. So, let us stop misleading people. Instead, let us bring real issues, especially if we are looking for a vote. We should not go out there and deceive people, but do things properly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Madam Speaker, I say good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President and happy new year.

Laughter

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, the people of Isoka are asking if the Government has plans to work on the Nkombwa Mine in Nkombwa Ward, Isoka Constituency. If the mine is opened, it would create jobs for youths. It should be noted that in Isoka, we do not have industries where youths can work. So, we are asking the Government if it has plans to work on the Nkombwa Mine to create jobs so that many young people in Isoka can work at the mine.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Isoka for that question. Indeed, the Government has plans to ensure that mines are opened everywhere. The hon. Member heard me mention many mines. That is why we are conducting mining explorations to determine exactly where the minerals are and encourage investors.

Madam Speaker, once again, allow me, not to define, but to give a little detail on investors.  The word ‘investor’ to some refers to a foreigner. An investor can be a Zambian and we are encouraging Zambians to also participate in mining. All we need is investment and people to explore and know exactly what is in Nkombwa Ward. Nonetheless, the Government intends to help the hon. Member to find investors to open the Nkombwa Mine. It is the duty of this Government. Where we know people are ready and are willing, we want to work with them. So, let us have a conversation with the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development. It does not have to be the Government to open that mine. It can be an investor such as Hon. Mundubile who can open the Nkombwa Mine.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, I am grateful to Her Honour the Vice-President for touching on the question that I wanted to ask, which is on the cost of living.

Madam Speaker, I will take Her Honour the Vice-President back. In the next few months from now, Zambia will be heading to a general election. We have heard that in some quarters, political players are actually encouraging their cadres to defend themselves and attack opponents. In the past, we saw how many Zambian citizens were brutalised. Some of them were actually moving with bullets on their bodies and others were killed. What interventions is the Government putting in place, in terms of security, to ensure that as we head towards the general elections, the Zambian people will still experience the peace that they have been enjoying for the past five years?

Mr E. Tembo: Insala!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Feira, please, you know that that is not allowed. Are you not familiar with our Standing Orders? As a lawyer, we expect better from you. So, please, do not just shout from there.

Her Honour the Vice-President, you may respond.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kabwata, whose concern is actually on peace, if I got him correctly, as we go towards the elections. I think, he referred to people moving with bullets in their bodies, which is a shame. That is a crime actually.  People who do such things to others should be reported to the police so that they are arrested because that is a crime.

Madam Speaker, we have passed that phase. The phase of pangas is gone and we cannot bring it back. Zambians are peaceful people. All of us must agree with that. We differ in ideology and the way we formulate our policies. We also differ in the manner we implement our policies and how we take care of our people.

Mr Nkandu: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: People cannot be moving with weapons. That phase is gone. When we formed the New Dawn Government, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, made it clear that the kind of behaviour called caderism is not allowed. It should not be allowed and I do not expect any one of us to actually support or encourage that. Nobody wants confusion in their country. When violence is allowed to go on, it does not choose. Tomorrow it might be on you, your aunt or your brother. How can one do that in this country? We are not even stuck politically. A family can have both UPND and PF members. It can even have – Which other party is there?

Hon. Government Members: UKWA.

The Vice-President: Does UKWA exist?

Interruptions

The Vice-President: I think, you get the principle. Some of us have relatives on the left, and some of the people on the left have relatives here, on the right. Would you be happy to have your own killed, injured or maimed? No. Your own husband is on the other side, eh (talked to Hon. Kasune).

Madam Speaker, that violence is gone. That violence should not be allowed. In fact, Zambians, when you see any politician coming armed, stay away. Zambia is not for conflict. Zambia resolves conflicts; it is not part of conflicts. We are peaceful people. We remained peaceful even under a difficult period of cadreism. Zambians managed to be resilient, and we have risen above that. That should not be allowed. Now, we are able to have by-elections without reporting bloodshed. It is in the same Zambia where there used to be bloodshed during by-elections. So, leadership is critical. You are leaders in your own right, so ensure that you carry nobody carrying a weapon to places where there are by-elections. Let us talk. Let us compete with our ideas. You do not have to injure anybody. Sitting here cannot be equated to an eye of somebody’s child. You should not engage in violence. You should not do that, hon. Members.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

Hon. Members, tone down. There is a lot of talking both on the left and the right. Please, let us listen to the questions. As I said earlier on, members of the public are watching us. When somebody holds a position, even more is expected of him. If you talk, everybody watching will say ‘oh, the hon. Ministers are talking while the Vice-President is answering questions.’ What picture are you depicting to members of the public?

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity you have given me to ask a question on behalf of the people of Kwacha. Good morning to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, my question is on the status of refugees in our country in relation to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). We have confirmed reports of intense fighting in our neighbouring country, the DRC. Many Congolese people have left the areas where there is intense fighting, or where war has erupted. Could Her Honour the Vice-President give us a brief summary of the situation. Have we received any refugees from our sister country? Have some people come to seek refuge in Zambia?

The Vice-President:  Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kwacha for that question on the status of refugees in the country. It is difficult for me to give figures, for example, because the situation is fluid. I cannot say exactly, but I am reliably informed that refugees have started coming into the country because of the new conflict. We have kept refugees forever; we were born with refugees in this country. Refugees started coming here right from the Second World War. We have hosted refugees so we are a host community. Maybe, that is why God blesses us with peace, so that we look after many people. That is why we should never have our people run away as refugees. Refugees have started pouring into the country, and the number is increasing. We, Zambians, are hospitable and we care. We will do what we can to share the little we have with them. However, we continue to pray for peace in those countries, so that we are not overwhelmed by the influx of refugees. Yes, we have started receiving refugees, but I cannot give a number because they continue to come in. We will keep them, but we pray the conflicts end in the countries affected by war.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker; my question is a rider to the hon. Member for Bweengwa’s question. I was listening attentively when Her Honour the Vice-President was sharing her famous Nalumangonomics with us, and I sympathise with her. Here, we should confront issues collectively. I think, the desire of my hon. Colleague who moved the Motion to discuss the cost of living, was to have ample time to brainstorm and share ideas on how we can find solutions to the challenges our people are facing.

Madam Speaker, I will be specific. I agree with Her Honour the Vice-President that we cannot control the cost of the products that we do not produce. That is correct, but we produce food. We grow maize. Right now, it is rainy season. Our farmers have been tilling the land so that the staple food can be available in good quantities, and so that its price can be managed. That is why our Government had the desire to even leave the milling plants under the Zambia National Service (ZNS) and the Zambia Correctional Service. That is now helping to cushion the prices of the staple food a bit. 

Madam Speaker, what is the Government doing specifically to cushion the price of the staple food and ensure that aka bwali, nshima, is affordable to citizens? Maize is grown by ourselves, and we mill it ourselves. The hon. Minister told us that by the time you were coming into office, the cost of mealie meal was K141. The expectation of the people was that the price was going to come down to K50. That is not the case. We now pay almost K400 for mealie meal. What is the Government going to do to cushion the price of the staple food for the people who are struggling to just have food on the table?

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

I know that we have run out of time, but Her Honour the Vice-President will have sufficient time to tackle that question. Then, we can close the segment.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, thank you, and I also thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for the question he has posed. He started by saying that he sympathises with us. There is no need for sympathy. No, no, no, no. We are comfortable that we are doing as much as we can to curb the cost of living. With all I have explained, hon. Member, it is not just about –

Laughter

The Vice-President: The hon. Member said that we produce maize. I think, I will say something that we might not have put clearly. The hon. Minister of Agriculture is not here. The hon. Member said that mealie meal cost K140 when his party left the Government. Did he say K140?  Of course, his party found mealie meal costing K25 when it came in office. That is the way prices are. That is why I talk of my son, the hon. Member for Lunte’s trousers. There are prices you cannot bring down. Instead, you enable people to buy things. Basically, that is what I said. You enable a buyer to buy, and this is what we are doing. If I start explaining, I will say the same things. When you say, ‘what are you doing?’– Let us see, how did the price of mealie meal, for example, go down? Maize is being grown, sir. I hope the hon. Member has a field of maize. He knows how much he spends to grow a bag of maize. The issue is that our focus has been on consumption rather than production. We never looked after the farmer for a long time. All we said was –

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I will tell our hon. Colleagues this. They should not be surprised when they lose the 2026 elections. They are speaking for a person who is seated here and wants the maize or mealie meal to be cheaper, while a person in Kaputa who is producing maize is getting nothing. That is how we have done it for a long period of time as Zambians.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this Government decided to add K100 to the price of a bag of mealie meal. So, the impact definitely goes to the consumer. However, this is why the Government is saying that it will help you, not to reduce the cost because you, as a consumer, do not produce maize.

Madam Speaker, the farmers in Shiwang’andu also want to grow and not sell their produce for nothing. We are empowering the producer. The more they produce, the more the supply.  The law of supply and demand comes in. That is our thinking. We need stability in the cost of living. Once we have more products, there will be stability. For example, the bumper harvest we have been talking about will bring stability. The former hon. Minister of Agriculture would agree with me that we gave farmers peanuts in the past, but this Government has given them what they deserve. So, when the people of Shiwang’andu –

Mr Kampyongo: The farmers.

The Vice-President: Literally, they are all farmers. They survive on farming. When people choose me over him, they are just being reasonable because they understand that we want to empower them as we help the people – I will not mention them – to have food by giving them Cash-for-Work so that they can afford to buy the mealie meal.

Madam Speaker, of course, the Government has other interventions through institutions like the Zambia Correctional Service, the Zambia National Service (ZNS) and – Which other one?

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: The Zambia Correctional Service. 

The Vice-President: I have mentioned the Zambia Correctional Service already. They are three.

Madam Speaker, those institutions are also milling maize to reduce the cost of mealie meal so that people can, at least, have something more affordable.

Madam Speaker, hon. Colleague should know that we are thinking and we are not sleeping. We are working on how to help the Zambian people and they generally appreciate it. So, please, they should not mislead them because they understand.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, we did not do so well today because only nine hon. Members asked questions. I think, the issue is with the opening remarks. They are too long. So, in the process, we do not give more hon. Members an opportunity to ask questions. However, we learn as we go along.

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

EFFECTS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA’S NINETY-DAY FREEZE ON FOREIGN AID

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation (Mr Haimbe, SC.): Madam Speaker, thank you for permitting me to render a Ministerial Statement on the effects of the United States of America’s (USA’s) ninety-day suspension of foreign aid from a Zambian perspective or context.

Madam Speaker, the US Government on 20^th January, 2025, through an Executive Order signed by His Excellency the President, Mr Donald J. Trump, commenced a ninety-day global freeze on aid to foreign partners to re-evaluate and redesign the US’s foreign aid with its foreign policy objectives. The Executive Order froze all US foreign aid disbursements worldwide, pending the outcome of the re-evaluation and re-alignment process. This led to the suspension of funding for various programmes supported by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) and other US Government-funded initiatives.

Madam Speaker, in order to meet the expectations of the American people, the US Government, during the period under review, will decide whether to resume, modify or terminate assistance. In this regard, on Wednesday, 29^th January, 2025, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Tourism, the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) and other relevant institutions held a meeting with His Excellency, Mr Michael Gonzales, the US Ambassador to Zambia, to gather preliminary information on the implications of the new US policies.

Madam Speaker, it is worth noting that the USA established diplomatic relations with Zambia in 1964, following Zambia’s Independence, and has long been one of Zambia’s most valued development partners. Zambia receives approximately US$600 million aid annually from the American people, which represents a significant portion of Zambia’s external assistance.

Madam Speaker, the USA supports key sectors such as health, agriculture, education and governance. The support is disbursed through various channels such as the USAID, Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Department of Defence, Peace Corps and the Millennium Challenge Corporation.

Madam Speaker, 75 per cent of the total US assistance to Zambia is channelled to the health sector, of which the biggest portion goes towards supporting the country’s human immunodeficiency virus/acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (HIV/AIDS) response activities and health commodities. Currently, there are over 16,000 health workers and community health workers remunerated under various US-funded health programmes. This aid has led to a significant reduction in the maternal mortality rate and an increase in life expectancy in the country.

Madam Speaker, it is important to mention that there was a second order issued by the US Government to waive the freeze on humanitarian assistance and this was viewed as a move that was greatly welcomed, not only by the Zambian Government, but by others who equally benefit from the generosity of the people of the USA. The waiver covers lifesaving medicines and medical services, food, shelter and humanitarian assistance. Thus, the support granted to Zambia through the United States President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), which benefitted over one million citizens through access to antiretroviral drugs, is likely not to be affected by the initial Executive Order.

Madam Speaker, from our preliminary analysis, we expect that the health sector, in relation to the provision of lifesaving medicines and medical services and feeding programmes aimed at addressing hunger and malnutrition, will be exempted from the aid freeze.

Madam Speaker, for sectors not covered by the waiver and benefitting from USAID, we expect impact of varying degrees. Further, it is premature at this stage to highlight comprehensively the magnitude of sectoral impact resulting from this freeze as relevant authorities are yet to determine what that impact might be.

Madam Speaker, as way forward, the  Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Cooperation, Ministry of Finance and National Planning, Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Tourism, Bank of Zambia and relevant stakeholders will continue to monitor the policy re-evaluation and realignment process by the USA in order to implement appropriate interventions and avert detrimental occurrences.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on point’s clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Affairs and International Co-operation.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for the update.

Regarding the stakeholders or the Government Intuitions that the hon. Minister has mentioned, are they going to be monitoring how things will be done in the United States of America (USA) that is when they will be able to come up with measures and interventions? Is the hon. Minister aware that the aid Zambia has been benefiting from the USA in terms of wealth and other programmes has a direct effect on our people? The President of the USA has already indicated that this is the measure his Government has taken. In his understanding of pronouncements from the USA Government, is it a good approach to wait and monitor instead of quickly taking actions to preserve the lives of the people especially those that are depending on Antiretroviral (ARV) and other medicines?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Lubansenshi for that important question.

In my statement, I do recall mentioning specifically that the Government is waiting exclusively. It does not mean that when I say the Government is waiting to see further what the ultimate position will be, there are no interventions that are being considered by the Zambian Government. That would be imprudent. I am aware that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for example, is looking at what the possible implication are of this situation that we are faced with and what adjustments might have to be made in order to address them.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may recall that His Excellency, the President made a policy pronouncement when we were at the African Union (AU) Summit that there was need for not just Zambia, but many of our brother and sister countries that rely on development aid to look inward as a continent to finding ways of being more self-sustainable. So, from both short term and long term perspective, the Government is looking at means and ways of addressing generally the reliance by least developed countries on assistances from others.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let me give an opportunity to the hon. Member for Kansanshi who is joining us virtually. Probably, as he is getting ready, we can give the opportunity to hon. Member for Mwense.  Be ready hon. Member for Kantanshi.

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, with the US$600 million as a generosity from the people of the United States of America (USA) the hon. Minister has said is quite a substantial amount of money. Obviously, going forward and given the reports that exist with President Trump being in Washington, obviously, global policies and financing is likely to change.

Madam Speaker, on the assumption the US$600 million is completely scraped from being given to us, what is the Government is going to focus on in terms of our domestic resources mobilisation.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Mwense from that equally important question. This underscores the importance of the subject that we are discussing.

Madam Speaker, in my statement, I mentioned that it would be premature at this stage for us to make certain assumptions such as the US$600 million will not be available given that the initial assessment period is a ninety day period. I also alluded to the fact that the bulk of that amount goes towards health services. As we speak now, there is in place another order which speaks to ensuring that money that is used towards life serving and humanitarian assistance are not scraped off.

Madam Speaker, in short, I would reiterate that at this stage, it would premature to say with any certainty that there is a plan of, x, y and z that is in place because it has not reached maturity. Suffice to say and repeat perhaps, that obviously, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning continues to look at what contingences need to be put in place which will be brought to the people through this House at an appropriate time.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr A. Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity. Am I loud and clear?

Madam Speaker: Yes, but if we ca see your face. We are just seeing the …

Mr A. Mumba: I am actually trying to ˗

I have placed the video button, but I do not want to waste much of your time, Madam Speaker. I want to thank the hon. Minister for the statement. Obviously, it comes at a time when there is a lot of concern particularly in the health and the education sectors that receive that kind of support. However, we are where we are because the United States of America USA) has decided to shift this policy. Quite clearly, the statements that are coming out of there have been that the agency that really supports this sort of gesture that we were receiving and the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) in particular has been under extreme check in terms of whether what it has been doing represents the American values.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members should remember 80 per cent of our budget now is being raised locally. One would have expected that this unfortunate change in the policy shift would have would have expected the Government to immediately come up with immediate solutions to curb what might be a possible policy shift because definitely there will be some effects in terms of what will be coming to Zambia. What is the Government going to say out there, especially to those that highly depend on this support in terms of work, research and all the things they have been doing?

What message does the Government have regarding the immediate steps that will be taken? If we are going to wait and assume that there may be a change of heart, we may not be preparing ourselves well. I want to know what the Government will do as a response to the possible continuation of the new foreign policy as far as what the United States of America (USA) has announced.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, I hope you heard the question.

Hon. Members, as we ask questions, let us be precise to the point so that we can get clear questions.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, my understanding of the question is that the same question has been asked already by the two previous hon. Members. The long and short end of it is about what fiscal measures the Government has put in place given the situation that we have found ourselves in.

Madam Speaker, I have belaboured to respond to that question on three fronts. Firstly, we cannot work on speculation. As we know, currently, the facts that we have are that there is a ninety-day review. Secondly, there is an order in place relating to the health sector, which speaks to the matter that the hon. Member has asked about. It would appear that there would be an exemption. Perhaps, to answer the question from a different perspective, the Government will always be responsible for the welfare of its people. Therefore, the assurance is that the Government will look at all the measures that can be put in place to avoid a negative impact on the citizenry on account of the policy shift that we have seen. I think that is the fairest answer I can give at this stage.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, the impact of the withdrawal of aid on all developmental programmes cannot be over-emphasised. I am looking at the gap that will be created from that withdraw and how we, as the Government, intend to fill the gap that will be created.

Madam Speaker: It is the same question coming in different forms though. I do not know whether –

Hon. Minister, you may proceed.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I am grateful for your observation. It appears that hon. Members are repeating a similar concern.

Madam Speaker, in responding to the questions, it is important for us to also recognise that, as a country, we are aware of the importance of the assistance that has been coming from the people of the United States of America (USA). We remain eternally grateful. As I mentioned in my Ministerial Statement, the interventions that that country has put in place over the years have been life-saving. Perhaps, one of the continued efforts that we will be making from a diplomatic as well as other sector ministries perspective is to continue to engage our USA counterparts to explain the importance of their continued support to the people of Zambia, and the fact that the sudden withdrawal in complete terms would have a telling effect on over 1 million people who currently benefit from the aid that is given. There is a need for continued engagement at various levels so that the transition, as it were, is more manageable. That is something that we are doing and will continue to do.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, in her book, Dead Aid, Dambisa Moyo warned African countries against heavy dependence on foreign aid. Today, we have found ourselves in a predicament as a result of the temporary suspension of aid. What impact does the suspension of aid have on the Budget and what are the future measures if it is not restored?

Madam Speaker: Another manner of asking the same question.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker. I am grateful that the Ministerial Statement has given us an opportunity to discuss matters of general policy, such as what the hon. Member for Chifubu has raised.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has referred to a publication by our very own Dambisa Moyo; Dead Aid, which was popular in the last decade or so. In responding to the question, I would like to take the perspective that the Zambian Government under the New Dawn Administration, has taken concerning its relations with foreign nations. It is something that our Chief Diplomat, the President of the Republic of Zambia, has repeated in addressing the hon. Member’s concern. Our approach now is one of economic diplomacy. It entails a steady shift towards strategic partnerships rather than aid. I would dare say that our engagements, as a country, and, indeed, in the wider global community, have shown that there is a shift away from developmental assistance to partnerships.

The hon. Member may see that, for example, in 2023, we signed a strategic comprehensive partnership with one of our key foreign partners, China. We have various agreements and documents in place that enhance our relations with foreign countries to afford this country an opportunity for investment and financial flow which will, ultimately, address the concern raised as to whether we, as Zambia, have a particular plan to be more self-reliant. I would also venture to mention that at the just-ended Africa Union (AU) Summit, one of the key discussions was how we, as African countries, can rely on one another more in terms of trade inflows and investment. Those are, perhaps, some of the long-term approaches that will see the concerns raised by the hon. Member ultimately addressed.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has taken note that literally, the hon. Member is asking a question that is centred around money and how the financing gap will be resolved. In his response, the hon. Minister gave an assurance to the effect that there is no need to panic because we have not yet reached the stage at which there is no money to procure drugs and supplies for healthcare. He is giving a picture that people do not need to panic. The reality is that we have people who, for instance, utilise Antiretroviral (ARV) drugs who are panicking. Hon. Members are asking what the plan is. I think the answer they are interested in is not the diplomatic answer, “We are engaging” because that is engagement. The fact is that the ninety days will elapse and there is a likelihood that it might be extended. To avoid reaching a stage where a problem occurs, I expected the hon. Minister to give us the steps. I expect him to say that the Government will, for instance, bring a Supplementary Budget to ask Parliament to allocate emergency funds so that we have a secure position. Do we intend to set aside resources within our Budget to sort out the emergency? This is a crisis. Do we have something that we are doing instead of waiting for the negotiations to continue? There is panic. I think that is the position that hon. Members are interested in hearing.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, perhaps, the hon. Member for Kamfinsa did not hear the response when I said that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is looking at contingency measures. I think that is what I meant. Essentially, there must be measures that we will put in place. The hon. Minister has the mechanism of preparing a Supplementary Budget as and when necessary when things crystallise. If the eventuality occurs then, certainly, we will be engaged, as Parliament, as I said earlier, by the hon. Minister on how we can address it. In the meantime, of course, the numbers are being looked at as to what that would actually entail. I hope that answers the hon. Member’s question.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me a chance to ask a question on a point of clarification.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the ministry is waiting for modification, a review or termination. Definitely, we not are hoping for the worst, where a termination is conducted. However, just in case of a review, I wish to state that the aid that Zambians get comes from taxpayers’ money. On the other side, we see that your counterpart issues a Statutory Instrument that the 15 per cent tax on minerals which the mining companies are supposed to pay has been cancelled.

Madam Speaker, with the challenge that we are already facing, would we be right to be taking on the issue of relieving mining investors of the 15 per cent tax which we get from minerals yet we are already faced with a dire situation? What is your Government doing by relieving mining companies of taxes yet we are already in this predicament which requires serious attention from the Government?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lundazi for completely going outside the context of the Ministerial Statement and start talking about domestic taxes. Quite alright, the issue that the hon. Member has alluded to in relation to this aid coming from taxpayers’ money is, indeed, from the people of America the brothers and sisters, whose tax comes to aid us.

Madam Speaker, with due respect, for the hon. Member to now go into the realm of our domestic taxes is going outside of the scope of the Ministerial Statement. That being said, it is presumptive that the hon. Member for Lundazi should assume that the Statutory Instrument (SI) issued by the hon Minister of Finance and National Planning would have a negative impact on our fiscal space. The reason the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning takes certain measures is in the best interest of our fiscal space, as it were. It is in the best interest of ensuring that we make the most out of what we have in terms of resource endowment. For example, one of the consequences of the waiver of tax, in my layman's understanding, is that it is aimed at encouraging the manufacturing sector to grow. As the manufacturing sector grows, it increases our tax base and therefore, we draw more revenues.

So, Madam Speaker, it is very premature or assumptive for us to make these submissions and speak as though the measure taken by the hon. Minister of Finance will have a negative consequence when in fact, the contrary is true.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I would also like to extend my gratitude to the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation for the statement.

Madam Speaker, as a continent and as a country, we have dealt with the issue of donor aid, which we call development assistance. This aid also comes with many conditions, and I think that the decision through the Executive Order by President Trump is a wake-up call. Now, in the same vein, my colleague just– Sorry, Madam Speaker, let me just build up my case.

The hon. Member for Chifubu referred to a book by Dambisa Moyo, which is paramount. I wonder if we read such books, particularly, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. In connection with that point, the issue that the hon. Member for Lundazi raised on the collection of taxes is actually an alternative. Looking at that issue from the point of view of neo-colonial imperialistic principles internationally, which I hope we understand, aid has been used to enslave our countries to forget that we are rich. We have minerals but, instead, we move with a begging bowl. Those are the issues we have been discussing. I would have liked the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to present the statement. My question is: From a foreign policy point of view, do we understand this issue? We are not supposed to be talking about aid being pulled or not. We are supposed to be looking at how we can wean ourselves off that slavery and look at local resources. I think that is the concept that we are discussing. What is the hon. Minister’s comment?

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is a very good friend of mine.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before the hon. Minister comes in, let me guide the House. Hon. Members, we are now moving away from the Ministerial Statement. The statement is clear. It is looking at the effect of the withdrawal of aid by the United States of America (USA) Government on aid-supported projects in the country. Now, we are going all over. Let us get back to the Ministerial Statement.

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Feira for giving us a long statement before he posed his question.

Madam Speaker, as you may have observed, we have gone into theory with the hon. Member referring to neo-colonialism and imperialist approaches which are, perhaps, his views.  Of course, as the Government, we do not subscribe to those views. I recall that during the period that the hon. Member was at the University of Zambia (UNZA), those were some of the concepts that were addressed. That must have been about twenty or even thirty years ago. I wonder if those concepts are still relevant in today's global village. I wonder whether we can talk about the concept of imperialism in the manner that has been put forward by the hon. Member. The New Dawn Government, has clearly shown that our path is that of economic diplomacy, which is a completely different concept that speaks to strategic partnerships rather than imperialist concepts of thirty years ago. Suffice to say that the hon. Member is entitled to bring that sort of argument to this Floor. The people of Zambia appreciate that when go out there as the New Dawn Administration, we go for strategic partnerships. This is where we are treated as equal partners for the benefit of the people of the two countries that are participating in an engagement. Perhaps the talk of neo-colonialism applied under past Governments that were not able to do anything about the situation of aid in any event. Now, they want to speak as though they have the solution. Quite clearly, the New Dawn Government is the one bringing the solution to the table.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, mine is not a question but a comment on what is happening in relation to the subject matter.

Madam Speaker, it is important at times to take drastic measures to attend to certain situations. I will give an example. When the New Dawn came into office, it declared ‘No tantameni’. People were used to tantameni. This time around, people are using –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is tantameni, hon. Member?

Laughter

Mr Chinkuli: Madam Speaker, tantameni is lining up for handouts. Now, that has passed. As I said, it is important to come up with measures that can alleviate a situation. Zambia was born sixty years ago, but we depend on other countries. The situation has come at the right time. In fact, the country needs it. I would like to thank President Trump for the just measure that has been put in place so that we can stand on our own two feet, which we are capable of doing. If today, we heard that America is no more; it is gone, where …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member.

You can wind up.

Mr Chinkuli: … would we get support? So, once again, I would like to thank President Trump for coming up with that drastic measure so that we can stand on our own.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, any reaction to the comment?

Mr Haimbe, SC.: Madam Speaker, I think, what the hon. Member is trying to put across, though I did not catch the question, is that there is a silver lining to every cloud. From a policy perspective, even before the US Government implemented the change o policy, the New Dawn Administration had already started pushing towards making our republic more sustainable in growing the economy. The steps that have been taken are clear for everyone to see in terms of the revitalisation of the mining sector. Some of the revenue-generating enterprises that had died not too long ago have been brought back to life. Those are the efforts that will actually result in us being self-sustaining.

Madam Speaker, from a foreign affairs perspective, the continued engagement with like-minded countries across the globe using a renewed and fresh perspective gives hope to the people of Zambia because when the Chief Marketeer goes out there, he does not go to party after party, as was the situation in the past, but to work and bring benefits for the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Our time is up for that Ministerial Statement. We make progress.

CURRENT SITUATION OF THE REPORTED CONTAMINATION OF THE KAFUE RIVER AFFECTING SOME TOWNS ON THE COPPERBELT

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Eng. Nzovu): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you sincerely for giving me this opportunity to address the House and the nation at large on the Urgent Matter Without Notice that was raised by Mr Kang’ombe, hon. Member for Kamfinsa, on the reported contamination of the Mwambashi and Kafue rivers, which has affected the quality of water supply to Kitwe and Kalulushi.

Madam Speaker, on Tuesday, 18^th February, 2025, the Water Resources Management Authority (WARMA) and the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) received reports of pollution of the Mwambashi River by Sino Metals Leach Zambia Limited. The ministry immediately dispatched a team to assess the reported pollution and discovered that the pollution was due to a failure of the tailings containment facility TD15F, which resulted in the release of acidic effluent with high heavy metal content into the Mwambashi River, which is a tributary of the Kafue River. The discharged material consisted of about 75 per cent of leach residue from the tailings leach plant, which is mostly acidic material produced after copper extraction. That situation has affected water supply to the people of Kalulushi and Kitwe. Further, the incident has also caused damage to the maize and groundnut fields of the local communities and has killed fish in the two rivers. On 19^th February, 2025, the discharge of the leach residue from the tailings dam was controlled by repairing the dam wall breach using waste rock and laterite.

Madam Speaker, it must be noted that Sino Metals operates an open pit mine, a concentrator plant, an overburden dump, a waste rock dump, tailings storage dams and solvent extraction and electro winning plant as well as a copper leaching plant. The company holds two water permits with WARMA with permit No 78169 for dewatering a volume of 4,000 m3 per day of ground water from the mine pits and permit No. 78170 for reusing of 600 m3 per day of dewatered water for industrial processes (process water).

Madam Speaker, preliminary assessments indicated that the pollution incident had caused the ph in the Mwambashi River as measured at Sabina Bridge to drop to as low as 1 whilst at Ganerton Treatment Plant, the ph dropped to around three. The Kafue River ph dropped to around six. These measurements particularly on the Mwambashi River indicated that the quality of water had deteriorated significantly and was well below acceptable standards for human consumption. This led to the ministry directing Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Company to immediately shut down the supply of water to the district and institute relevant measures in order to protect the lives of our people.

Madam Speaker, what are the sanctions for such actions? It is important to note that Section 47(2) of the Water Resources Management Agency (WRMA) Act No. 21 of 2011 has mandated WARMA to monitor the resource quality and control the pollution of any water source. Further, this House may wish to note that Section 48 of the WRMA Act No. 21 of 2011, has made direct or indirect discharge of any organic or inorganic pollutant into any water body a strict liability offence and the offenders are punishable by law with a fine not exceeding one hundred thousand penalty units (40,000.00) or one year imprisonment or both.

WARMA’s role in abating pollution of water sources is complemented by provisions of Section 32 of the Environmental Management Act (EMA) No. 12 of 2011, which provides that a person shall not without a license discharge, cause or permit the discharge of a contaminant or pollutant into the environment if that discharge causes, or is likely to cause an adverse effect. EMA has provided that offences of this nature shall attract upon conviction a fine not exceeding seven hundred thousand penalty units (K280,000.00) or imprisonment for a period not exceeding seven years or both.

Madam Speaker, the Government understands the gravity of this situation and assures the public that the health and safety of citizens remains a priority. ZEMA, WARMA, Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Company and Sino Metals have been conducting hourly sampling and testing of raw water to monitor key parameters such as ph and Total Dissolved Solids (TDS). These tests have been conducted at three strategic locations namely; Sabina Bridge on the Mwambashi River, Garneton Water Treatment Plant along the Mwambashi River and Bulangililo Water Treatment Plant along the Kafue River.

Madam Speaker, immediate measures have been instituted to ensure that our people continue being supplied quality water. These include:

1. shutting down of the Sino Metals Plant immediately;
2. immediate repairing of the tailings dam to stop further discharge of effluent and containment of effluent discharge from the shared pollution control dam, TD6;
3. immediate stoppage of abstraction of raw water from the Mwambashi River by Nkana Water and Sewerage Company;
4. we have since launched an awareness campaign to inform the public about the pollution disaster and the consequences of consuming the polluted water or eating the contaminated fish;
5. continuous application of lime to neutralise the acidity in the water. So far, more than 600 tonnes of lime has been applied and pH levels have been rising steadily;
6. continuous Water Quality Monitoring by a multi-sectoral team consisting of ZEMA, WARMA, Mine Safety Department, Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, Nkana Water and Sewerage Company, Sino Metals Environment Team and other mining entities in close proximity like Mopani and Konkola Copper Mines (KCM);
7. continuous monitoring of the disaster by the Mines Safety Department, ZEMA, WARMA, Sino Metals Environment Unit;
8. we have since demanded the stockpiling of lime and we have been assured that with the current stocks of lime lie at 1500 Tonnes;
9. assessment of damage to crops and the surrounding areas in the community for the sake of compensation purposes; and
10. provision of water by way of 4 No water bowsers to strategic institutions like health facilities and low-income areas.

Madam Speaker, I hereby make an earnest appeal to other mining entities, other companies or to other well-wishers to come on board and help Sino Metals and in the end, help the Government of the Republic of Zambia and the people of Zambia to clean up this mess so that our people can start receiving quality water supply.

Madam Speaker, a combined team of experts from WARMA, ZEMA, Mines Safety Department and Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation is currently on site, taking hourly samples of water in the affected areas for testing. Based on the results of the tests, the team of experts will be able to estimate how long the pollution will be cleared in the water body.

I would like to caution members of the general public on the Copperbelt that the fish that has died on the two affected rivers is not safe for human consumption. Therefore, they must exercise maximum restraint.

Madam Speaker, lastly, let me assure members of the public that the Government will ensure that adequate compensation is made to all the affected people. Further, the Government will ensure that Sino Metals is not only sanctioned according to the existing legal provisions, but that it cleans up the polluted rivers. Further, the Zambian public is assured that the Government of the Republic of Zambia, headed by His Excellency the President Mr Hakainde Hichilema will make every effort to ensure that the public receives quality water supply urgently.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement presented by the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity on behalf of the people of Chilubi to ask a question for clarification to the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that I have forgotten my chemistry, but I will try my best. He indicated that according to him, the water ph value has fallen by three in some cases and in other cases by four. This means that on the ph scale, we all know that quality is around seven. What is used mainly is hydrogen iron to measure that. He has talked about the issue of water turbidity and that it has been established that the water has been polluted. From his statement, if the ph value has fallen by three, I would guess that the water has become more acidic as opposed to alkaline on the other side.

Madam Speaker, given that position, I would like to believe that the water has been polluted and the people who have polluted the water are known. The EMA Act talks …

First Madam Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I am now asking the question. The EMA Act talks about the polluter pays principle and this is in the EMA Act. This means that those who have polluted the Kafue River should pay. I did not get …

First Madam Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Fube: Yes, I did not get it anywhere, where the hon. Minister has said that they have paid, but instead, he described the penalties. When are they paying for polluting the Kafue River since the EMA Act talks about the polluter pays principle?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chilubi has attempted to educate us on this chemistry, but let me put it straight as a senior engineer. In chemistry, ph also referred to acidity or basicity denotes the potential of hydrogen as measured on a logarithmic scale. Ph …

Interruptions

Eng. Nzovu: Can you listen and take notes quickly so that we can be on the same page.

Madam Speaker, this is, basically, a concentration of hydroxide ions, and the measure is from zero to fourteen with seven being neutral. Anything less than seven is acidity and anything more than seven is basicity or alkalinity. Let us know the details so that we start moving together quickly. Looking at the situation we are in, the most important thing is to ensure that we neutralise the acidity in the water because the acceptable level is about seven. As the hon. Member correctly said, a drop to one, two or three is highly acidic and not fit for human consumption.

Madam Speaker, in terms of the measures that have been put in place, I also clearly stated that the first thing we needed to do was to stop the leakage from that bridge. We needed to repair the leakage with waste rock and laterite. Secondly, we needed to ensure that the secondary dump was also repaired because that is where the waste passed when moving from TD6 into the Mwambashi River and then, to the Kafue River. That is the work that is currently going on. The Government, the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA), through the Environmental Management Act, and the Water Resources Management Authority (WARMA), through the Water Resources Management Act, are working closely. Both Acts are punitive. In fact, the hon. Member for Chilubi’s position is correct. You may recall that just last week, I lamented on the Floor of this House about the low charges. When there is pollution of this magnitude, obviously, there needs to be high penalties. However, the same principle that the polluter pays is being applied right now.

Madam Speaker, Sino Metals Leach Zambia Limited will be required to clean the Mwambashi River and the Kafue River as well as compensate for the losses incurred. I am sure hon. Members have seen that the acid spill has destroyed people’s crops. A multi-sectoral approach has been instituted. The Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, the Ministry of Agriculture, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development are all working together. Priority is to ensure that water is treated  so that Nkana Water and Sewerage Company (NWSC) can start abstracting the raw water to Kitwe and Kalulushi. It is a dire situation, which the Government is looking at critically and doing everything possible to ensure that we contain it. We believe that we will manage the situation quickly and the people of Nkana, Kitwe and Kalulushi will again start receiving quality water.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Mulenga (Kalulushi): Madam Speaker, there was a disaster in my constituency. The damage was not from TD6, but TD15F. I have a huge problem with the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) and mine inspectors. The hon. Minister has talked about a multisectoral approach, which has not been implemented, because year in and year out, ZEMA officers and mine inspectors inspect the mines. However, the multisectoral approach is only evident and spoken about when there is a disaster. That should worry the hon. Minister very much. Where were the inspectors? If, indeed, the inspectors were using tax payer’s money to inspect the mines, we would not have had the disaster. The fields of over 200 farmers who got loans from the Ministry of Agriculture and fertiliser from his Government are a disaster. That is looming hunger. We have a big issue with ZEMA in the constituency –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalulushi, please, summarise your question so that it does not turn into a debate.

Ms Mulenga: Thank you, Madam Speaker, I will.

Madam Speaker, I just want to put the hon. Minister in the know because there is a disaster in my constituency. I also want to show him that his officers are not working. If officers both from the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, and ZEMA were on the ground, the disaster would not have happened. The mining companies are going scot-free without paying any taxes and yet they are busy polluting our environment. It is not just the wastage of crops, but the degradation of the soil, which is going to cost the people of Kalulushi years to come. Even last year, compensation was about K1,800 –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalulushi, you are now debating.

Ms Mulenga: Maybe, I will put it this way, Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister spoke about compensation. The compensation that our people are given usually ranges from K1,800 to K2,000. The hon. Minister is a Senior Engineer, and I know that the disaster is not just on the surface. It has destroyed people’s crops, the soil and the environment. What kind of compensation is the Government going to give to the people, which will be different from the usual K1,800 to K2,000 compensation, which was given in the past?

Madam Speaker, my question is: Are the hon. Minister’s inspectors doing a good job? Do we really have inspectors? If we had inspectors, we would not be waiting for a calamity like this.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalulushi, order!

Hon. Minister, I do not know which question you are going to pick.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I got the questions correctly and I want to answer them.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member mentioned TD15F and TD6. I think, she needs to check her data quickly. Both facilities have affected the situation.

Madam Speaker, with regards to ZEMA, we need to start reminding the former hon. Ministers of what used to happen in the past. I was the Minister of Green Economy and Environment. You may recall that in the initial days when the United Party for National Development (UPND) came into office, ZEMA officers were not allowed to go to certain mining entities.

Hon. Members: Yes!

Madam First Deputy Minister: Order!

The hon. Minister will continue without interjections.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, ZEMA officers were not allowed to go to manganese mining entities in Mkushi and Serenje. I am speaking with authority and hon. Members should move with the times and see what we are doing. We have not only empowered ZEMA to be independent. We have also empowered it with the law. Currently, ZEMA is a respected institution, and not the way it was, previously.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, ZEMA was almost useless.

Interruptions

Eng. Nzovu: ZEMA is a respected institution whether you like it or not.

Madam Speaker, the law enables ZEMA ...

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Eng. Nzovu: ... to ensure that environmental protection is upped in this country, and I speak with authority.

Ms Mulenga: Point of Order, Madam Speaker!

Eng. Nzovu: Where we are now, ZEMA –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Hon. Member for Kalulushi, you asked a question. I have given the Floor to hon. Minister to answer that question, but before he can even finish responding, there is an indication for a point of order. Can we allow the hon. Minister to respond.

Hon. Minister, you may continue with the response.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, before I was rudely interrupted, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Nzovu: … I was saying that there is a science behind compensation. There is a thought process towards determining the amount of money one pays to an affected person. I clearly said that the multisectoral approach has already been instituted. The Ministry of Agriculture is on site to assess the damage to the crops. The Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, and the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation are also on site. So, the values will be determined and adequate compensation will be paid to the people. Those processes are also done according to the law. So, let us wait. Our people must be assured that they will be compensated for any damage. This Government will do everything possible to mitigate the suffering of its people –

Mr Chisopa: As you prepare to go!

Eng. Nzovu: What? We are not going anywhere. We are here until 2090.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Eng. Nzovu: We are not going anywhere. We are here to stay until 2090. No Government that delivers on its mandate can be voted out. This Government is here to stay because the people of Zambia have accepted what we are doing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, what happened was structural failure of the tailings dam. Obviously, that structural failure led to the breach of that dam causing so much waste to gush out. That is not a normal situation; it is failure. So, if there is failure, what we should concentrate on now is mitigating the suffering of our people. I want to appeal to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalulushi to help us –

Ms Mulenga interjected.

Eng. Nzovu: Yes.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Kalulushi, please, do not debate while seated.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, we request the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalulushi to help us tell our people to be cautious and to not eat that contaminated fish, and that the Government is doing everything possible to mitigate their suffering. I think that is my appeal to the hon. Member for Kalulushi.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I asked this question yesterday because of the impact that this particular pollution has had on the issue of access to water supply. Today, I expected the hon. Minister to deal with the interventions that have been put in place to provide access to water supply. However, the measures the hon. Minister has explained are dealing with the actual contamination where the tailings dams are located.

Madam Speaker, in all those constituencies that are affected, there are schools where children have to go and health facilities. As the Government is taking all these steps, such as offloading the lime, it needs to consider that there are schools where children have to report and health facilities that need water. The provision of the water bowser, which has been referred to, does not provide an adequate solution. So, my question to the hon. Minister has to do with access to water to ensure that life continues for our people. Are we saying we are going to fold our arms until the potential of Hydrogen (pH) levels go to the correct level, or is there something that we can do to ensure that people have access to water supply?

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Before the hon. Minister responds, a point of order is raised.

Hon. Member for Lunte, what is your point of order?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me this point of order on the hon. Minister who is on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, I do not know whether the hon. Minister knows that the contamination of water is happening now. The people are drinking contaminated water and the fish is dying now. So, for him to start preferring to refer the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalulushi to what he thinks used to happen in the past is unfortunate. Does he know how people are getting frustrated by this kind of approach?

Madam Speaker, as of now, the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA), which he says is a respected institution, has been sued by that avocado mine in Kalulushi. When did the regulator start being sued by a company that is a violator?

Madam Speaker, relevance of speech is demanded in Standing Order 71. Is the hon.  Minister in order to make reference to the credibility of an institution that has been sued even though everybody knows that it is a regulator?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, you have debated your point of order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You have debated on what went wrong and what the hon. Minister should do. Your point of order was not brief, in accordance with the criteria for points of order. Moreover, points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement are still being raised on the Floor. So, you should have asked a question instead of raising a point of order, and the hon. Minister would have responded to you. Let us, maybe, not pick the wrong ways of hitting back at the hon. Minister when there is still room for you to interact with him.

The point of order is not admissible because you adequately debated it.

We make progress.

Hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, you can respond.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, indeed, let us encourage people to ask questions. I know these are scientific questions, not accounting questions, so there may be a shortcoming somewhere.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Eng. Nzovu: It may not be the relevance of speech, but the relevance of questions.

Madam Speaker, to answer the question posed by my fellow engineer, Eng. Kang’ombe, I will take him back to point number ten in my earlier response. I said that we have instituted the provision of water by way of providing four water bowsers in strategic institutions like health facilities and low-income areas.

Madam Speaker, I also made an appeal to other mining companies to come on board and help Sino-Metals Leach Zambia Limited and the Government to clean up the water. I agree with Eng. Kang’ombe that these measures may not be adequate, which is why we are appealing for more assistance. Indeed, we believe that the adequate solution may come in restoring the uptake of the water from the Mwambashi and Kafue rivers because that is where most of the water, which will be drawn by the Nkana Water and Sewerage Company (NWSC), will come from.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, the contamination of water in the Kafue River has brought devastating consequences. The supply of water has been disrupted, thereby, shutting down production in many factories. As we speak, some schools have been closed and taps, in many households, have dried up. The fish in the Kafue River has died in large numbers, all because of one mining company that contaminated the water. How long do we anticipate the environment in the Kafue River to be restored so that the residents, especially in Kitwe and Kalulushi, who are very much affected, can have their confidence restored in using the river again for any economic ventures?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, that is a very important question. This morning, I was checking the reports from the Water Resources Management Authority (WARMA), ZEMA and the NWSC. The figures I got were quite encouraging in that the pH, which was between one and two, has risen to four, obviously still below acceptable levels, while the total dissolved solids now stand at about 649 mg per litre, which is acceptable as it is below 1,000 mg per litre. This has basically dropped from about 1,500 mg per litre, which was well above.

Madam Speaker, the report we have received from these institutions is that Sino-Metals Leach Zambia Limited has now increased the number of dosing points. This will be continuously increased so that the pH is raised as much as possible to acceptable levels. So, the estimation is that between the next two days, we will be seeing acceptable levels. Hence, we will see an increase in water uptake by the NWSC for its purification and, obviously, later on, distribution to the two towns.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr A. Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, the Mwambashi River passes through Chimwemwe Constituency. There are over 4,000 small-holder farmers in my constituency who can be regarded as peasant farmers. Those farmers do not draw water from the Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Company (NWSC). They get their water from shallow wells near the Chambeshi River. We have actually stopped them from drawing water from those wells.

Madam Speaker, unfortunately, the NWSC is not taking water bowsers to people in my constituency. We are worried that people will die of thirst or they will be forced to start drawing water from polluted rivers. On the other hand, the land used for farming has been contaminated. I appreciate that the Government has considered compensating the people affected, but that will not be enough. The affected land needs to be tested for pH levels, and it should be neutralised because people’s daily lives depend on farming. 

Madam Speaker, tailing dams do not collapse abruptly because they are checked frequently. In this case, Sino Metals Leach Zambia Limited was not checking its dams. Therefore, is the Government going to consider compelling the company to move the location of its tailing dam elsewhere? My fear is that in case a similar incident happens again, maybe in the night, the water might go to where people live and they could end up drinking the poisonous water.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chimwemwe has brought very important questions to the table. Yes, indeed, the Government sympathises with the 4,000 small-scale farmers over the loss of their property. I assure the hon. Member that the Ministry of Agriculture is up to speed on the issue of compensation.

Madam Speaker, as regards the issue of water provision, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation and other partners will look into providing quality water to the people affected. The hon. Member has brought up another important and technical question; t shifting the tailings dam to a different location. We will look into that issue. However, I must state clearly that relocating a tailings dam is a very big exercise. When a mining company wants to do that, an environmental impact assessment (EIA) has to be done because of the danger it poses to the environment. I am sure that the issue will be the subject of detailed discussions with the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, through the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA). We will also institute several studies to see how best we can make decisions going forward. The points made by the hon. Member are valid and we will look into them.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, the Kafue River and its tributaries have continued to be contaminated by industrial discharge that comes from different mining companies in Copperbelt Province. The discharge causes high metal concentration in the river, which affects aquatic life. In other words, the metal concentration has an impact on the population of fish and disrupts the ecosystem of the river.

Madam Speaker, the devastating effects of industrial discharge into a river call for punitive measures on would-be offenders. Can the hon. Minister share with the House what the ministry has done so far to mining companies that have polluted rivers, particularly on the Copperbelt? Does the hon. Minister have any statistics to share with us, which will give us confidence that the Government is working on the problem of contamination of water by the mines? Can he share with us some statistics on the mining companies that have been prosecuted so far for polluting rivers?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I do not have the statistics on my fingertips of the mining companies that have been punished or prosecuted for polluting rivers. However, I invite the hon. Member of Parliament to come to my office so that I inform him accordingly. Should the public need the information, I can come back and provide the statistics to the House.

Madam Speaker, the issue of pollution of rivers, lakes and other water systems in the country is very big. You will recall that just last week, I was on the Floor informing the House that the ministry will bring to Parliament amendments to the law so that there can be more punitive measures against people who pollute our rivers and streams. I can only ask that Parliament helps us to enact the various changes to the laws so that the punishment for polluting waterways can be more severe.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, my second follow-up question is very short and precise. In his answer to my earlier follow-up question, the hon. Minister referred to his statement. I know that one of the interventions that the hon. Minister has referred to is engagement of mining houses to help resolve the problem. On behalf of the people of Kamfinsa, Chimwemwe and other affected constituencies, I want to know when we can expect water supply to be restored to the health facilities, schools and homes affected.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I have a short answer. We are engaging Mopani Copper Mines Plc and Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) to help us address the issue. They are already on board and the Government is on board, as usual. We expect that because we have increased the dosing points for lime, the potential of hydrogen, commonly referred to as water pH, will rise quite quickly. It has risen to four from one where it was.

Madam Speaker, I have been assured by the Nkana Water Supply and Sanitation Company (NWSC), ZEMA, WARMA and Sino Metals Leach Zambia Limited that within the next two days, the NWSC will start abstracting water from Mwambashi River. However, we need to remember that water that is abstracted still has to be treated. In this regard, there is the Bulangililo Treatment Plant and other plants. They will treat the water so that we can supply quality water to people. We can only ask for patience from our citizens. Indeed, the situation is dire, but we need to come together as a country and manage it.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Madam Speaker, community engagement in the context of water contamination is very important. In the hon. Minister’s statement, he alluded to public awareness. What I want to know from him is what he is doing in conducting the public awareness campaigns.

Mr Chisopa: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

What is your point of order, hon. Member for Mkushi South?

Mr Chisopa: Madam Speaker, we are talking about the lives of people. So, when people ask questions, it is important that we give collective and specific answers. The people on the Copperbelt, as I speak, have no water, and the hon. Minister has been asked when, exactly, the ministry is going to restore water supply, but he has talked about the potential for hydrogen (pH) rising, two days of collecting water and that the water will need treatment. The people on the Copperbelt want to know.

Is the hon. Minister in order to not be specific, under Standing Order 71, Madam Speaker, as to when, exactly, water supply is going to be restored for the people on the Copperbelt in order for them to start drinking clean and safe water?

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, due to a lack of time, I will allow the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation to tell us the specific time as he responds to the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwense.

Laughter

Ms Nyirenda: Question!

Eng. Nzovu: We need to consult the people of Lundazi.

Laughter

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, the two days will elapse on Sunday. We expect Nkana Water and Sewerage Company (NWSC) to start getting water from the Mwambashi River on Monday.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): I thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Sorry, hon. Member for Chitambo. The hon. Minister did not answer the question from the hon. Member for Mwense, unless, he has forgotten the question.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I am sorry. The hon. Member of Parliament was confusing me.

What type of engagement, Madam Speaker, are we using?  First and foremost, there is a radio campaign. Secondly, I am speaking about this matter now.  Yesterday, we issued press statements. We are engaging our structures, and the Ministry of Agriculture is wide spread, the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment are is widespread in that area. The Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation is also widespread. We are utilising our political structures. We are talking to all people. If there are any other measures the respected hon. Member of Parliament can think of, I invite him to be on board. I am also inviting the hon. Members of Parliament to speak about this issue and help us disseminate this information.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you.

Since I had called upon the hon. Member for Chitambo, I will give him the Floor.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I have a simple question for the hon. Minister. I know that the Kafue River goes down and connects to the Zambezi River. The hon. Minister has not told us whether the inspectors have also checked the downstream of Kafue River to see whether the contamination has also gone into Zambezi River. Is that the position or have they checked?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I can confirm that we have checked the water quality in the Kafue River. Remember, the Zambezi River is hundreds of kilometres away, and pollution normally reduces as you go along the length of the river. However, I can confirm that the pH in that area, has, indeed, gone down. However, the values were not as bad as they were in Mwambashi, which is in close proximity to the tailing dam, which collapsed.

Madam Speak, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you so much.

Please, let us continue engaging the hon. Minister, especially hon. Members from constituencies that are affected. We make progress.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

DAMAGED ROOF OF NATIONAL HEROES STADIUM

213. Mr Mutale (Chitambo) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts:

(a)     what caused the damage to the roof on the northern wing of the National Heroes Stadium in Lusaka District; and 

(b)     what urgent measures are being taken to avert further damage to the property due to rainfall.

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts (Mr Nkandu): Madam Speaker, allow me to take advantage of this opportunity to add a voice to those who have welcomed the newly-elected hon. Members of Parliament to this House, especially that I was one of those who were part of the process. Behind me, I have my first and second born hon. Members of Parliament from Kawambwa Central and Pambashe in Luapula Province.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, this really points to the fact that the United Party for National Development (UPND) is growing in numbers.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I had said let me take advantage of this opportunity to welcome, congratulate and thank the hon. Members of Parliament, including the one from Petauke Central Constituency. I welcome him to this House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkandu: Obviously, the addition of two hon. Members of Parliament to a party is not a mean achievement. It is something that should be appreciated by well-meaning Zambians that this political party is growing.

Madam Speaker, having said that, let me respond to the question.

Madam Speaker, the damage to the roof on the northern wing of the stadium was caused by impacts of strong winds on a wearied and teared roof.

Madam Speaker, the stadium is insured with the Zambia State Insurance Corporation (ZSIC). The ministry has since engaged the insurance company, which has also engaged a contractor to replace the tent.

Madam Speaker, the insurance company has had difficulties to find a local company to express interest in repairing the roof because the material can only be sourced from China. In view of the foregoing, a company from China called Shanghai Cooperation is being engaged to repair the roof.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts knows that Heroes Stadium is the biggest football facility in Zambia in terms of seating capacity. It sits in the capital city. So, it is a very strategic facility in the sports sub-sector. Looking at how long it has taken not only to replace the roof, but also to undertake rehabilitation works that are currently on-going at the sports facility, when do we see the sports facility being rehabilitated to a state which can allow for international games to be held here in Lusaka? I think, the sports fraternity is curious because it wants to know even from the ministerial statement that the hon. Minister has rendered. People want a specific answer. When do we expect the sports facility to be utilised again?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you. It was not a ministerial statement, but a question.

Mr Kang’ombe interjected.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, someone is asking a question, and wants to answer his question.

Mr Kang’ombe interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can you give room to the hon. Minister to respond, hon. Member.

Mr Nkandu: Indeed, thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the answer is short and precise. In the next two to three months, Heroes Stadium will be ready for international games. Let me also indicate that apart from what we are discussing today, we have also engaged another contractor from South Africa, working together with a local contractor, and we are now putting up a new and nice turf compared to Manchester United’s Stadium.

Mr Mutale: Hear, hear! 

Mr Nkandu: So, Heroes Stadium will not be the same. Currently, the contractor is working on the turf.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, depreciation is the reduction in the value of an asset due to wear and tear, which may be caused by actual use and, sometimes, age. When we compare the national asset; the Heroes Stadium, with the Levy Mwanawasa Stadium in terms of age, one will find that the Levy Mwanawasa Stadium was built earlier. We expected depreciation to occur more on the Mwanawasa Stadium than on the Heroes Stadium. Why is it that we have continued to repair that stadium? Could it be that substandard work was done by the contractors who were selected at the point of inception?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, indeed, there was poor workmanship at the Heroes Stadium as compared to the Levy Mwanawasa Stadium. That is why the Levy Mwanawasa Stadium is still at an acceptable standard where international football matches are played. So, the answer would be that the workmanship was not good. I do not know what really happened because I was not there. I think, it was not done in good faith. However, as the New Dawn Administration, we are going to make sure that we rehabilitate, not only the Heroes Stadium but also, the Levy Mwanawasa Stadium. Just after finishing working on Heroes Stadium, we will shift our attention to Levy Mwanawasa Stadium so that we can also change the turf there, because it needs to be replaced. I agree with the hon. Member that the workmanship that was exhibited at Heroes Stadium was not very pleasing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am taking the last point of order.

Hon. Member for Lumezi, what is your point of order?

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I cite Standing Order No. 71.

Madam Speaker, the stadium that is the topic of discussion now was built by the friendly people of the People’s Republic of China, but the hon. Minister is saying that there was poor workmanship without any technical report whatsoever. Where will this misleading response put the people of Zambia and the people of China, given such a statement with no technical report?

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi, I think, it would have been more appropriate for you to come up with a question instead of raising a point of order, especially since the hon. Minister is still on the Floor and I am still giving chance to hon. Members of Parliament to ask supplementary questions. The hon. Minister is the only one right now who can respond to all the questions that are being asked. So, whatever he is telling us, I believe, that is the information that he got from his ministry. So, please, just take note of the opportunity that you have to ask a question. The hon. Minister is here to respond to you.

Hon. Member for Chitambo, you may proceed.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that it will take about two months to three months to repair Heroes Stadium. My question to him is: What immediate measures has he put in place to avert further damage, because it is currently raining? Even from a distance, one can tell that the rain is falling directly on some of the property inside the stadium.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you will take into account the issue that was brought up by the hon. Member for Lumezi, who said that you are misleading the nation with the information that you gave.

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, the question on the Floor is specific, but the problem is that we are trying to expand it. The question is just about the roof. In fact, it is not even about the turf and other things. However, the way hon. Members ask questions, sometimes, is such that we are tempted to answer. That is why sometimes, when people are not ready to answer expanded questions, some hon. Members walk out. So, I would suggest that we stick to questions.

Madam Speaker, in sticking to the question, let me say that there is no way we can mislead the nation. The question came from the hon. Member for Chifubu, who understands that there is a difference in the structures when one goes to the Levy Mwanawasa Stadium and then the Heroes Stadium. Some hon. Members have not been inside the Heroes Stadium. Otherwise, they would appreciate what we are talking about when it comes to workmanship. Those who have gone to the Heroes Stadium, especially soccer fans like Hon. Kang’ombe, will help me to qualify the statement that the workmanship, when it comes to civil works inside the stadium, was not good, hence, my response. So, I am not misleading anybody. In fact, it is some hon. Members who are misleading themselves by trying to pit the Chinese people against the people of Zambia. Otherwise, what was done is not very pleasing, and I wanted to repeat that.

Madam Speaker, coming to the question that was asked by the hon. Member for Chitambo, I said that we have engaged the insurance company, because that facility is insured. So, if anything happens, definitely, the insurance company can come on board and help us to fix the roof. However, as I said earlier, we have a situation in which local companies are failing to fix the tent, because that roof is made of tent material. At one point, I think, we attempted to engage a local company that fixed the same spot, because that spot was fixed but, after a few months, the roof was blown off again. That is why we thought that it was important to contact the ones who built the stadium to help.

Madam Speaker, I think, I need to pre-empt questions that may arise. In the future, we intend to just get rid of the whole roof and put up a new one so that we can avoid the blowing off of the roof at the stadium.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, just for the sake of the people who are listening, was an assessment done to ascertain how much the repairs would cost?

Mr Nkandu: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Chitambo for showing interest in matters in Lusaka District. Indeed, the hon. Member and the people of Chitambo are soccer fans. That is very good.

Madam Speaker, I will repeat by saying that we have engaged the insurance company, but it has not yet indicated to us how much we are supposed to spend. So, when that information is availed to us, we will inform l the good people and soccer fans of Chitambo how much will be required to work on what was damaged on that structure.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

REDUCTION ON THE COST OF BORROWING FROM COMMERCIAL BANKS

214. Mr Kolala (Lufubu) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning what measures the Government is taking to reduce the cost of borrowing from commercial banks.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Madam Speaker, some of the measures the Government is taking to reduce borrowing from commercial banks include:

1. reducing fiscal deficits, which is critical for lowering yield rates on Government securities and, ultimately, contribute to lower commercial bank lending rates. Fiscal consolidation, supported by the successful conclusion of external debt restructuring, is expected to contribute to lower lending rates in the medium term;
2. lowering inflation, which will help to maintain stable interest rates and prevent lenders from demanding higher returns to offset inflation risk, thereby, reducing borrowing costs. The Bank of Zambia (BoZ) will, therefore, continue using its monetary policy tools to achieve low and stable inflation by steering inflation back to the 6 to 8 per cent target band and anchor inflation expectations. In this way, BoZ will foster a low-interest rate environment and contribute to lowering the cost of capital;
3. in addition to the pursuit of its price stability mandate, BoZ will continue to encourage financial institutions to use the Credit Reference Bureau (CRB) when extending credit facilities to various agents to address the issue of risk. The consistent use of the CRB is likely to yield positive results through the identification of delinquent borrowers, thereby, helping in minimising the levels of non-performing loans in the financial system. This will, ultimately, contribute to reducing credit risk and lead to low lending rates; and
4. increased, in the 2024 Budget, the allocation to the Zambia Credit Guarantee Scheme (ZCGS) to facilitate access to affordable loans by small and medium enterprises (SMEs). To complement these efforts, BoZ is working on modalities to introduce a second round of a targeted refinancing facility to provide affordable liquidity to commercial banks for onward lending to priority sectors of the economy at lower interest rates.

Madam Speaker, other measures such as financial inclusion and education being taken by the Government, through BoZ, will help in lowering lending rates. Financial education is critical in this regard as it will help in enhancing financial knowledge, thereby, helping in minimising people’s exposure to financial products that they may not afford. Further, in the medium to long term, the market development efforts through sensitisation campaigns to increase retail participation in the Government securities market will increase competition and help to lower yields, which will anchor rates in the capital and financial markets.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kolala: Madam Speaker, looking at the policies of the New Dawn Government and its desire to empower the Zambian people through loans from the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) and the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we see that the Government has done a lot and there are also many other initiatives that are yet to be introduced. Does the hon. Minister think that the outlined methods are so effective that within a short period, we are going to see the lending rates coming down?  If the lending rates are lowered, many people will, at least, be cushioned, and will rush to banks rather than depending on the funds that the Government is giving to the small-scale miners and all the people who need loans.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I wish to confirm that the measures that have been taken are rational and will contribute to lowering interest rates.  With the excess debt that the Government had, it was competing with the private sector in borrowing money. Obviously, this did push up the cost, and that is why, if you listened to what I said earlier, the measures to reduce the deficit are certainly a big anchor in driving interest rates down.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lufubu, do you have another question?

Mr Kolala indicated dissent.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, let me take this opportunity to acknowledge the efforts that the ministry has made to ensure that there is financial stability in the country. My question has to do with the policy itself. What measures has the Government put in place to ensure that homegrown solutions are adhered to by empowering local banks because it has been proved that where the Government falls short, we can seek help from local banks as a solution? I will give an example of the National Savings and Credit Bank of Zambia (NATSAVE). It is in almost all the districts, if my memory serves me right and, because of that, when the Government needs help, it is very easy to bank on that particular bank or other local banks. Now, what is happening is that –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Just summarise your question, hon. Member. We are behind time.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, what practical measures is the Government putting in place to ensure that Government institutions are able to support local banks such as NATSAVE and other banks rather than depending on commercial banks?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, indeed, a lot is being done to help local banks. Of course, we have to realise that, yes, we have the likes of the Zambia National Commercial Bank (Zanaco), a local bank; big, strong and reliable, as they say it themselves. However, there are also other local banks that are fairly small like the National Savings and Credit Bank of Zambia (NATSAVE) that the hon. Member mentioned.

So, the strategy is to, first of all, help all the banks. As long as a bank is operating in Zambia and serving Zambians, we will regard that as a positive thing. Certainly, for many institutions accessing the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), NATSAVE is the automatic banker of choice. As a result, I think that NATSAVE and other small banks in rural areas are receiving support that they have never seen before and we will continue supporting them. The CDF has helped many people in remote places.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, interest rates are a function of a number of fundamental economic factors. Among them is the appetite of the Government to borrow locally. Apart from direct borrowing, debt is accumulated through procuring services and goods without paying for them on time. Would the hon. Minister say that the appetite to borrow locally and to accrue debt for services and goods by the Government has reduced, compared with where we are coming from? What has the impact of that improvement been on the economy?

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Anakoka for that very important question.

Madam Speaker, when the Government is in the habit of acquiring goods and services without paying for them, the definite result is that some people who supply the goods and services, who might have borrowed money from banks, will fail to meet their financial obligations. When banks are unable to collect money from loan defaulters, they will concentrate on collecting money from those who are truthful in paying their debts. That will result in interest rates going up. This is why when this Government came into office, the issue of giving out contracts without a budget line was no longer tolerated. It is no longer happening. When a contractor gets an order from the Government, the budget line for that order is there and the money will be paid. So, it is absolutely correct to say that we have to be financially disciplined because that is a very important factor in lowering interest rates. How people borrow money and repay loans will always be an important factor in pushing interest rates in the manner I have just explained.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: My apologies to the last two hon. Members who wanted to ask supplementary questions. We have to make progress because we are behind time.

FINALISATION OF TEN-YEAR ROAD SECTOR MASTER PLAN

215. Mr Kang’ombe asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. whether the Government has finalised the formulation of a ten-year road sector master plan; and
2. if so, whether the following roads in Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency are part of the plan:

1. Kamfinsa Correctional Facility – Ndola /Mufulira Road Junction;
2. Ndeke Village – Ndeke Presidential;
3. Zamtan Cemetery;
4. Mukuba Natwange – Old Natwange;
5. Katokamema – Kakolo Farm Block; and
6. township roads in Old and New Ndeke.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati) (on behalf of the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo)): Madam Speaker, the Government has finalised the formulation of a ten-year road sector master plan and it is constantly being updated.

Madam Speaker, the following roads in Kamfinsa Constituency are part of the plan and construction works will depend on the availability of funds:

1. Kamfinsa Correctional Facility – Ndola /Mufulira Road Junction;
2. Ndeke Village – Ndeke Presidential;
3. Zamtan Cemetery;
4. Mukuba Natwange – Old Natwange;
5. Katokamema – Kakolo Farm Block; and
6. Township roads in Old and New Ndeke.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, the hon. Acting Minister has responded to the two questions I raised. In his response, he confirmed that a ten-year road sector master plan has been prepared and it is constantly being upgraded. I request that that information, which obviously affects all the constituencies, be made available. If there is a plan, it is important that it is distributed so that we know in which financial year the Government intends to carry out the road works. If that information is not made available, every hon. Member will keep asking the same questions. However, I am happy that there is such a plan now.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Acting Minister of Local Government and Rural Development mentioned that the roads listed above are part of the plan. Has the hon. Minister been given information by the officers in his ministry to confirm when the road connecting Ndeke Village and Ndeke Presidential will be rehabilitated, for instance? Has he been told when the road passing Kamfinsa Prisons going all the way to Ndola will be rehabilitated? Basically, my question has to do with the financial year in which the roads will be attended to.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, obviously, a master plan will have details indicating its contents. In this regard, the ten-year road sector master plan has the details of the six roads I read out in my response. However, what is more important is the distribution of the master plan to hon. Members of Parliament for their knowledge and monitoring.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, once again, I note that the hon. Minister responding is acting on behalf of the substantive hon. Minister. So, it is possible that all the information might not be available.

Madam Speaker, considering that the Government has got resources that have been assigned to road rehabilitation works, is he able to confirm through this platform the request that has come from the constituency because obviously, people are expecting some form of feedback indicating which roads will be worked on this?  Is there anything that I should take back to the constituency in terms of when one of the roads will be done? At least, I should be comforted that one or two roads, especially the one passing through old Natwange into Mukuba/Natwange will be done in this financial year. I think, there is that expectation, but unfortunately, I have not gotten that particular detail. So, can I be assured through this platform when one of the roads will be worked on?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, the plan is a function of funds that will be available and budgeted on a year to year basis in ten years and that will go for all the constituencies. Therefore, it will be difficult at this stage to confirm which specific roads will be attended to and in which specific year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We will have the last hon. Member. 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I just want to get the period and the cost of the master plan.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, obviously, it is a ten-year master plan. So, that is the period. However, I do not have the information relating to the cost of the master plan.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you. There is someone who has indicated even when I said the hon. Member would be the last to ask a question. I hope it is a quick question.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): It is not very quick, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to ask the last question.

Madam Speaker, hon. Minister has indicated that the master plan has been finalised. When the hon. Member asked the question, he responded that it would be difficult for him to tell which road is going to be worked on and in which year.  Does it mean that the master plan does not have an order of ranking or order of priority?  If it does not have, then, what kind of master plan is it or what kind of a plan is it? The Government needs to know the targeted six roads, for instance, and also know which of those is the most important. All things being equal, that is the order that is supposed to be followed. What kind of plan is this which does not have an order of priority or ranking?

Mr Mutati:  Madam Speaker, it is straight-forward. I have indicated that the six roads in Kamfinsa Constituency are part of the master plan. For example, the information as to when the Ndeke Presidential Road will be specifically worked on and the year is obviously contained in the master plan. The prioritisation is dependent on the information input that came from the constituency.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.           

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1240 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 25^th February, 2025.

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