Thursday, 25th July, 2024

Thursday, 25^th July, 2024

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

PRESENCE OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM ACQUIRE ACADEMY

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from Acquire Academy in Chongwe District.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome the visitors into our midst.

Thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, before we move to the next item, the second announcement is that –

I was jumping the gun. Apologies.

We proceed with our work. The next segment is Urgent Matters Without Notice.

There were no indications for urgent matters without notice.

Madam Speaker: It is very surprising. No indications for urgent matters without notice.

_______

BILL

FIRST READING

KAZUNGULA BRIDGE AUTHORITY BILL, 2024

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo) (on behalf of the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi)): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled the Kazungula Bridge Authority Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 12, 2024. The objects of the Bill are to:

give effect to the agreements relating to the establishment of the Kazungula Bridge Authority made between the Government of the Republic of Zambia and the Government of the Republic of Botswana; and

provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 1^st August, 2024.

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

RURAL-BASED ECOLOGICAL POLICY FOR MITIGATING CLIMATE CHANGE

397. Mr Fube (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Green Economy and Environment:

whether the Government has any plans to develop a rural-based ecological policy for mitigating climate change;

if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

whether such a policy will be supported by a legislative framework.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala) (on behalf of the Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Mr Mposha)): Madam Speaker, the Government has no plans to develop a rural-based ecological policy for mitigating climate change as the current 2007 National Policy on Environment is comprehensive enough. The policy provides an all-inclusive framework for sound protection and management of Zambia's environment and natural resources in their entirety whether in rural or urban areas. In addition, the 2016 National Policy on Climate Change and its adaptation plan are also comprehensive enough to address climate change imperatives in both rural and urban areas. Further, the Second National Biodiversity Strategy and Action Plan (SNBSAP-2) aims at improving the status of biodiversity by safeguarding ecosystems, species and genetic diversity in both rural and urban areas. Such plans will be implemented as there will be no development of a rural-based ecological policy. The existing policies sufficiently address ecological issues both in urban and rural areas. With the present policy framework, my ministry is implementing several projects both in urban and rural areas aimed at enhancing ecological integrity and mitigating climate change. A few examples are as follows:

The Lake Tanganyika Development Project in Mpulungu and Nsama Districts

Madam Speaker, the goal of this project is to improve the quality of livelihoods of populations depending on Lake Tanganyika and to protect the ecological integrity of the lake basin. Among others, the project has established community forests covering a total of 25,609 ha in five communities in Mpulungu District and three communities in Nsama District. The project has also established wood lots covering 87.35 ha in 309 households in Mpulungu District and 213 households in Nsama District.

Madam Speaker, bee-keeping has been developed, and 9,529 beehives have been distributed. The initiative is benefitting 1,342 households in Mpulungu District and 537 in Nsama District.

Madam Speaker, the project has established 2,642 ha of conservation farming crop diversification, which is benefitting 11,536 farmers. It has developed irrigation schemes to irrigate 105 ha, and it is benefiting 250 households in Mpulungu District and 60 households in Nsama District.

Madam Speaker, regarding fisheries development, the project piloted fish-cage farming and installed twelve fish cages, which are benefitting 180 households in Mpulungu District and 120 households in Nsama District. About 4.9 tonnes were harvested amounting to K380,244.

Madam Speaker, in terms of infrastructure development, the project has constructed rural health centres; six in Mpulungu District and four in Nsama District, providing general health services to 109,894 people, including 1,099 women who have accessed family planning services. The initiative has created twenty-six permanent jobs. Nsumbu Hospital has been constructed in Nsumbu, which has the potential to offer health services to – (the hon. Minister drank some water)

Madam Speaker, Nsumbu Hospital has been constructed in Nsumbu, which has the potential to offer health services to 77,651 people when it becomes operational.

Madam Speaker, eleven primary schools in Mpulungu District and two in Nsama District have since been constructed benefitting 571 early childhood education pupils, 6,816 primary school pupils and 1,268 secondary school pupils annually. Kasaba Bay Boarding School will benefit 645 pupils annually, and the Nsumbu Skills Training Institute has the capacity to train 100 students annually.

Madam Speaker, the project has constructed 18.4 km of access roads and crossing points that have benefitted approximately 20,000 people in Mpulungu District.

Madam Speaker, to enhance information communication, two community radio stations; one in Mpulungu District and the other one in Nsama District have been constructed. It is expected that Mpulungu Radio Station will cover 85 per cent of the population in Mpulungu reaching out to about 153,564 people.

Sustainable Luangwa Project in Mafinga District

Madam Speaker, the objectives of this project are to reduce forest and land degradation of the Luangwa upper sub-catchment for enhanced protection of water resources, conservation of biodiversity and development of associated community livelihoods. The project is in its early stages of implementation and has initiated assessments on bio-diversity, forestry and the socio-economic situation.

Building Resilience of Local Communities in Zambia

Madam Speaker, this will be done through the introduction of ecosystem-based adaptation into priority ecosystems, including the wetlands and forests project. The project is aimed at addressing climate change, and the vulnerability of rural communities to climate change risks resulting from the on-going ecosystem degradation of wetlands and forests. The project is in its initial stages of implementation. It has since mapped out the Lukanga swamps, zoned areas covered by invasive alien species and established community forestry groups.

Madam Speaker, the Zambia Integrated Forest Landscape Project (ZIFLP) in the Eastern Province is aimed at improving landscape management, and increasing environmental and economic benefits for targeted rural communities. The project has financed activities on the ground that aim to improve rural livelihoods, conserve ecosystems and biodiversity, and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The project has trained a total of 338 agricultural extension officers in climate-smart agriculture technologies. It has supplied farming equipment and inputs to 478 farmer field schools in 239 agricultural camps. About 10,755, out of which 6,631 are male and 4, 124 are female, lead farmers have been recruited and trained, who have also recruited and trained 104,612 follower-farmers, of which 49,472 are male and 59,332 are female.

Madam Speaker, the ZIFLP has commenced the establishment of twenty-one smallholder farmer-led irrigation schemes that will benefit 1,050 rural farmers. So far, two schemes have been completed and 169,702 ha of agricultural land has been put under climate-smart agriculture in the province against the project target of 59,000 ha. Further, 80,000 farmers have adopted climate-smart agricultural practices.

Cumulatively, Madam Speaker, the project has established a total of 104.8 ha of forest plantations. In addition, a total of 1,489,007 seedlings of assorted tree species were raised and planted. Twenty-eight community forest management groups have been established and 72,401 ha of forest land has been brought under sustainable management against the project target of 66,000.

Madam Speaker, the project has procured and distributed 179 institutional energy-efficient stoves to twenty boarding schools and one prison in the province, and distributed 1,292 portable stoves bringing the number to 3,902 stoves constructed, procured and distributed under the project.

Madam Speaker, the ZIFLP has supported the demarcation, clearing and beaconing of the entire Lukusuzi National Park, which is 2,720 km², and the Luambe National Park, which is 254 km², to reduce encroachment. With project support, the Department of National Parks and Wildlife (DNPW) has undertaken 9,874 field patrols resulting in 888 arrests of poachers and illegal miners, and twelve pangolins have also been recovered in the process. Further, three staff houses, a control room and a park entry gate have been constructed at Roan Camp for Luambe National Park. Three staff houses and a control room have also been built at Kalimbi Camp.

Madam Speaker, six watering holes; two in Luambe National Park and four in Lukusuzi National Park. (coughs)

Excuse me, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, I do not know if we are on the same page. The question is asking if the Government has any plans to develop a rural-based –

Mr B. Mpundu: Balebelengafye!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

The question, hon. Minister, is asking whether the Government has any plans to develop a rural-based ecological policy for mitigating climate change. You have stated that there are no plans because a comprehensive policy covering both rural and urban areas already exists.

The question in part (b) stated as follows: “If so, when the plans will be implemented”. To some extent, you already indicated that some plans are being implemented, and what has been done so far.

In part (c), the question was whether such a policy would be supported by a legislative framework. So, maybe, you can move on and indicate whether the implementation will be covered by a legislative framework since there is already a comprehensive policy framework in place. Can we do that so that we do not turn the question into a ministerial statement.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I think I was given a long response. That is why I sort of meandered away from the main question.

Madam Speaker, that is my submission.

Madam Speaker: I do not know if we heard the hon. Minister talk about whether there will be a legal framework to cover –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress.

We can ask supplementary questions.

Hon. Member for Chilubi, you may proceed.

Ms Mulenga: Balebashupafye!

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, an ecological policy, among other things, is supposed to cover microsystems, mesosystems, exosystems, macrosystems and, …

Interruptions

Mr B Mpundu: Professor!

Ms Mulenga: Ema Minister, aba!

Mr Fube: … chronosystems.

Madam Speaker, perusing through the National Policy on Environment of 2007, I note that it has a wide and general approach, which leaves out about three systems out of the recommended five systems. So, the question on the Floor was asked and inspired by the gaps that are in the 2007 National Policy on Environment. The Environmental Management Act No. 12, 2011, and the Environmental Management (Amendment) Act No. 8, 2023, also have some gaps. That is why the legislative aspect comes in.

Madam Speaker, I just want to give more details on the subject because the hon. Minister talked about many justified projects. Given the policy background, I asked about the rural areas because they are the only hope that we have. Currently, much of the land is affected by many factors in the environment, including the use of land, trees and air pollution. From this question, I wanted the ministry to churn-out the rural areas which have about 85 per cent of arable land. I do not think that the presentation by the hon. Minister, which had many –

Interruptions

Mr Amutike: What is your question?

Mr Fube: I am also showing how –

Madam Speaker: Order!

How many Presiding Officers are here today?

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: Uyo, uwaku Mongu!

Ms Mulenga: That fat Albert!

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, two wrongs do not make a right.

Hon. Member for Chilubi, ask your follow-up question. In the answer that the hon. Minister gave, you heard him say that there is already a comprehensive policy in place. So, what is your question following what the hon. Minister has said?

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I am saying that the policy has many gaps regarding ecological management. That is my submission. I also wanted to find out whether the Government has any intentions of embarking on interventions, especially since my question qualified as a reaction to climate change. I had a problem marrying the response to the question on the Floor. I know that the hon. Minister is in an acting position –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Just concentrate on your question. Ask a clear question so that the hon. Minister can understand and also give a clear answer. I do not know if the hon. Minister has got the question.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I do not know if the Government is considering developing, specifically, an ecological policy that will address protecting rural areas, as a reaction to climate change. That is what I had asked.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the answer to that is yes, and I can add further that the National Policy on Environment is supported by the Environmental Management (Amendment) Act, No. 8, 2023, read together with the Environmental Management Act No. 12 of 2011. The National Policy on Climate Change will be supported by the Climate Change Act when its present Bill is passed by Parliament.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, thank you.

Madam Speaker, considering that the policy is available and the question on the Floor is about the gaps in the existing policy, how is the ministry measuring the impact of the current policy as far as the objectives are concerned?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, in my response, I indicated that there is a comprehensive document regarding the question at hand, and if there are any gaps that have been identified, I would encourage the hon. Member for Chilubi to contact us so that we can look at the exact gaps he is referring to.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: What is your point of order, hon. Member for Nkana?

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, I rise to raise a point of order on the Hon. Chief Whip. Clearly, you can see how much we have struggled with that question owing to the fact that the hon. Minister who is representing his counterpart is ill-prepared –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, there is an hon. Minister in the House who was the substantive Minister in that ministry. Is the Chief Whip –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

If you want to raise a point of order, raise it in another way than looking at how the Acting hon. Minister has performed in answering the question on the Floor.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, tulebashupafye ba Minister. We are just troubling him.

Madam Speaker: That is not a proper way to raise a point of order. If you have any concerns or have a better answer than what the Acting hon. Minister has stated, you can lay it on the Table so that we hold the hon. Minister accountable. Your assessment is just subjective.

Let us make progress.

Mr Allen Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the policy is adequate. In certain countries, to allow the rural areas to conserve forests, they allow the people in those areas to get income from the carbon credits that are sold. Do we have such a situation in our country?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the issue of carbon credits is coming in the Climate Bill that will be presented to Parliament soon, and it will be addressed accordingly.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Amutike: Hear, hear!

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I think I will engage the ministry further.

Madam Speaker: That is good. When you have an idea, you can present it so that we improve on what is obtainable on the ground.

Hon. Member for Nalolo, you may proceed.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, this is a very important question, in light of climate change. I will join the hon. Member for Chilubi in engaging the ministry.

Madam Speaker, I am rather disappointed to hear the Government say that it has no plans to develop a rural ecological policy. That is why we have human-animal conflict. The rural perspective of climate change issues is too technical. Looking at the various pieces of legislation; the Forest Act, among others, there must also be a policy that speaks on the rural aspect. It is the same in other Southern African Development Community (SADC) countries. So, instead of labouring to ask questions, we will engage the ministry. I would ask the hon. Minister to seriously re-look at the gaps that come from nationalising rural issues of ecology.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: If I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he said that there is a comprehensive policy document covering both rural and urban areas. Of course, there could be some gaps for which you, hon. Member for Nalolo, and the hon. Member for Chilubi can approach the ministry to make some proposals. There is a Bill that will be presented to the House to which you can make meaningful contributions considering that we did not do well in the last debate that we had on carbon trading.

We make progress. We move on to the next question.

OPERATIONALISING HEALTH POSTS IN MBABALA

398. Mr Munsanje (Mbabala) asked the Minister of Health when the following health posts in Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency will be operationalised:

Kachenje in Nchembe Ward;

Nabukowa in Nchembe Ward;

Katumbi in Mutanga Ward;

Hakaloba in Simaubi Ward;
Mwanachewu in Mang’unza Ward;

Halumba in Ng’onga Ward;

Kaseko in Macha Ward;

Namiyanda in Kabimba Ward;

Maubwe in Mbabala Ward; and

Mayobo in Kabanze, Mayobo Ward.

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Dr Muchima)): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the following health posts in Mbabala Parliamentary Constituency are at different stages of construction and are being implemented using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF):

Kachenje in Nchembe Ward;

Nabukowa in Nchembe Ward;

Katumbi in Mutanga Ward;

Hakaloba in Simaubi Ward;

Mwanachewu in Mang’unza Ward;

Halumba in Ng’onga Ward;

Kaseko in Macha Ward;

Namiyanda in Kabimba Ward;

Maubwe in Mbabala Ward; and

Mayobo in Kabanze, Mayobo Ward.

Madam Speaker, the ten health posts in Mbabala Constituency will be operationalised upon completion of the construction works and provision of piped water, flushable toilets, energy sources, medical equipment and human resources. Guidance has already been provided to the local authorities to include the provision of piped water, flushable toilets and energy sources whenever the CDF is used to construct health facilities or maternity annexes.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, indeed, the clinics have been built under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). their construction has been completed although works started at various points in the past. What is disheartening is that some of the clinics have been under construction for the last twenty years. For example, Old Kachenje and Namiyanda and, to date, they are not functional. So, the community is in pain. Thanks to His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema, the CDF allocation has been increased and with it, we have completed every feature at those infrastructures, including the provision of piped water and incinerators. We may not have flushable toilets because that is a new development. Further, for other requirements, under the 2024 CDF allocation, we have allocated K150,000 to K200,000 funding for the procurement of equipment for each clinic.

Madam Speaker, apart from Mayobo and Maubwe, which structures are not yet complete, all the infrastructure is there for the rest of the clinics. We request the ministry to urgently and immediately commission them so that the President’s directive to bring healthcare to the family as close as possible can be attained. When is ministry going to do that?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mbabala, please, ask a follow-up question. This is not the time for debating.

Mr Kambita: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, in line with what the ministry has put as requirements, when are the clinics that are ready going to be opened up to serve the people of Mbabala?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has pretty much asked a question that is within the ambit of his responsibility, as a Member of Parliament. He is aware that the CDF is executed by the local authorities, as executing agencies. The onus is on the hon. Member, together with the local authority, to have a checklist for projects. Once a project is completed, they have to ensure that everything has been done. At that point, the hon. Member just has to request the Ministry of Health to provide whatever else is necessary in terms of manpower to operationalise those health posts.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I see a lot of interest in the question from the indications on the House system. This is a constituency-specific question. We are supposed to move quickly.

Hon. Member for Kamfinsa, you may proceed.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I am listening to the answers that the Acting hon. Minister of Health is providing on the important question asked by the hon. Member for Mbabala.

Madam Speaker, I am interested in policy issues. So, from a policy point of view, I want to find out what the Government's policy is on a health facility, which has been built under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), that needs to be operationalised. Kamfinsa Constituency as well as other constituencies, have the same challenges. Health facilities are built but there is no staff to post to those facilities. As a result, the facilities cannot work. What is the policy of the Government in relation to the question at hand?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the policy is pretty straightforward. The essence of the CDF supplementing the Government’s efforts in providing health services to its people is so that we should bring health services closer to the community. That is why this New Dawn Administration has gone out of its way to ensure that as many health personnel as possible are recruited to ensure that all the health posts and facilities that are coming up are equipped with manpower. The policy is that we must take healthcare closer to the people. Where the CDF has supplemented the Government’s efforts, the Government will not hesitate to complement the necessary staff to operationalise the health posts.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I wish to commend the Government, particularly the Ministry of Health, for the recruitment of health staff.

Interruptions

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, given that eight clinics out of the ones listed have everything except the health staff that have been recruited, is the hon. Minister able to give an assurance to the people of Mbabala that the clinics will be opened within this timeframe? All that we are waiting for is the manpower. We have provided money for equipment, water reticulation and everything else. We have used, in essence, the CDF, which we thank the Government for, correctly to reach that level. Now, we need a helping hand in terms of human resource and, of course, drugs.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I guess this advice goes to all the hon. Members of this House. I think it is extremely important for hon. Member to engage the ministry, as he would get a quicker response. He should visit the ministry and explain that those particular health posts are ready for commissioning and operationalising. The ministry will definitely attend to him, and ensure that the health posts, which have been made available courtesy of the CDF, are there to service our people. The CDF has also been made available to the Zambian people by His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Charles Mulenga (Kwacha): Madam Speaker, I appreciate this opportunity –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Sorry, hon. Member for Kwacha. There is an indication for a point of order.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, what is the point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Standing Order No. 71, which states that the information we table in this august House must be factual and verifiable.

Madam Speaker, I sympathise with the Acting hon. Minister of Health because he is not equipped with the information that is necessary. We do not know whether the former hon. Minister of Health has gone or not.

Madam Speaker: Order, the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu!

Please, raise your point of order.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, in response to the supplementary question asked by the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, who was seeking to know the policy position on providing primary health care to our people, the hon. Minister went on to talk about taking healthcare closer to the people, mainly referring to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We are aware that through the implementation of the Decentralisation Policy, primary healthcare services have been delegated to the local authorities. What is needed is a clear-cut policy on who is going to be responsible for this or that. The procurement of health equipment is an expensive undertaking, which requires colossal sums of money, and the CDF can only do so much.

Madam Speaker, was the hon Minister in order to avoid speaking on the policy position so that all those who are building clinics, with the paradigm shift in terms of managing healthcare services, can know what is to be done and at what point, and who is responsible for the deployment of medical staff to the health facilities, and whether the rural health facilities should also be expecting to receive supplies from the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA), which is now an organised confused institution.

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, you started well by asking to raise a point of order, and then you brought in the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA), as if the agency is part of the question on the Floor.

Hon. Minister, a question was asked about the Government’s policy on the operationalisation of the health facilities.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I spoke to the policy position of the Ministry of Health. Guidelines have been set up on what must constitute the completion of a health post. Once that has been done, it is the responsibility of the ministry, not the local authority, to provide personnel. There is nothing complex about a clinic. I have commissioned a clinic before in George Ward in Ndola Central. There is no equipment that is so expensive that the hon. Member is saying that hon. Members are not able to procure at constituency level.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Since the question is specific and it did not talk about policy, maybe, we are taking the hon. Minister by surprise. The hon. Member for Shiwang’andu can file in a specific question to address that concern.

Mr Kampyongo: Most obliged, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: I did not say urgent. You are adding urgent yourself.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Let us get back to the hon. Member for Kwacha.

Mr Charles Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I appreciate this opportunity given to me.

Madam Speaker, government is a going concern. I say so because the previous Government had plans to embark on the countrywide construction of 600 health posts, if I am not mistaken. In line with the question that the hon. Member for Mbabala has asked, is that programme on course? If it is on course, then, we have no doubt that the health posts, whose construction is being requested for, can be absorbed within the 600 health posts.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, I do not know whether you got the question. Or was it a comment?

We can ask one more question.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, my question is on this Government’s policy on health. We were told that health has been devolved not decentralised. Devolved means that health services at Level I hospitals has been taken to the people. Then from Level I hospitals to specialised hospitals, like the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) and Levy Mwanawasa University Teaching Hospital, report to the Ministry of Health. Below that level, the clinics and what is being asked for in Mbabala report to the Local Government or the council.

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister not see that the health post has not been opened in Mbabala because the policy and what is happening on the ground are not in tandem? On the ground, the reality is that the local council should hire volunteer nurses in Choma, send them to Mbabala and open the health post. However, the ministry is expected to send the workers and, in the process, the health post is not yet operational. What is the ministry or the Government doing to ensure that the policy and what is happening on the ground are in tandem, especially concerning health posts?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, that question is a repetition of the one asked by the other hon. Member, or was it the point that was raised by the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

Hon. Minister, you may proceed.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Former President of the Patriotic Front (PF) for that question.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I am afraid we are dealing with a specific question. It appears that the hon. Members are delving outside the realm of the original question. I would suggest that they file in another question to answer specific issues.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Just an observation. I think that when we are acting in ministerial positions, we should be given the scripts in good time so that we prepare. Otherwise, at the rate at which we are going, we are not achieving anything.

Let us make progress. Next question.

ENHANCING SERVICE DELIVERY IN THE POLICE SERVICE

399. Mr J. Daka (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security what measures the Government is implementing to enhance service delivery in the police service, countrywide.

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Eng. Nzovu) (on behalf of the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.)): Madam Speaker, I wish to state that the Government has been implementing a number of interventions aimed at enhancing service delivery in the Zambia Police Service (ZPS), countrywide, and these include the following:

Community Policing Initiatives

Madam Speaker, the Government has been implementing community policing initiatives aimed at forging stronger collaboration between the police and the community. With these initiatives, members of the community have become active allies in the effort to enhance the safety and quality of neighbourhoods.

Procurement of 156 Motor Vehicles

Madam Speaker, the Government procured 156 landcruisers through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). The motor vehicles have since been distributed to all the constituencies to mitigate the operational challenges that the ZPS has faced over time. The Government attaches great importance to operational efficiency and enhanced quality service delivery to all its citizens.

Recruitment of 2,000 Police Constables to Enhance Staffing Levels

Madam Speaker, the recruitment of 2,000 constables by the ZPS is expected to improve service delivery across the country by increasing police presence to prevent crime and adding to the number of officers to respond to security concerns from members of the public, among others.

Operationalisation of the New Zambia Police Service Structure

Madam Speaker, the Government has embarked on the operationalisation of the approved expanded police structure. By operationalising the expanded structure, there will be more human resource deployment, improved response time, improved access to services and proactive community engagement aimed at creating a more secure environment.

Implementation of the Safe City Project

Madam Speaker, the Government is implementing the Safe City Project aimed at enhancing the capabilities of the ZPS by integrating advanced surveillance technologies. The project provides the police with the following:

video surveillance system (VSS). Surveillance cameras have been deployed in four cities, namely Lusaka, Livingstone, Kitwe and Ndola, targeting main roads and other important areas of security concern. These cameras assist the police in monitoring the environments in which they are deployed twenty-four-hours-a-day and seven-days-a-week as well as reviewing past incidents and events;

intelligence traffic system (ITS). The ITS cameras are strategically placed along the main roads to monitor motorists’ behaviour and violations of road rules and regulations. This system has been integrated into the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) system. This has assisted in the reduction of physical speed traps, which were manned by traffic officers;

electronic policing (e-policing). This initiative has seen the deployment of various modules to bring about efficiency in daily routine work. This system is aimed at digitalising most of the daily routine work to bring about efficiency and effectiveness in the way the police work. So far, the creation of officers’ electronic staff files under the human resource module is ongoing;

digital mobile radio network. The digital stand-alone radio network deployed in almost all the districts is meant to equip officers in their respective localities with improved communication gadgets. This system has enhanced communication in the ZPS;

implementation of the government service bus (GSB). The GSB is expected to streamline operations for the ZPS by facilitating efficient communication, data sharing and co-ordination with the various Government agencies, ultimately, improving overall operational efficiency and public service delivery. For example, the International Criminal Police Organisation (INTERPOL) motor vehicle clearance system provides online services to clients wishing to clear their motor vehicles using the online platform; and

the Government is currently undertaking investment in various infrastructure development projects for the police service. Investment fosters a more conducive working environment, boosts morale among police officers and enables the police service to respond more effectively to work demands.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, the Government is committed to ensuring that service delivery by the ZPS is improved across the country through the provision of necessary support.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Daka: Madam Speaker, the elaborate response given by the hon. Minister is much appreciated on behalf of the people of Chadiza.

Madam Speaker, when one reports a crime to the police, what is so disheartening is the rate at which officers respond to the report. To that effect, I would like to find out if we have a rapid response wing within the Zambia Police Service (ZPS).

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Chadiza for asking that important question and for coming up with this important question, which is on the Floor of the House.

Madam Speaker, I think that one of the main issues that this Government committed to was ensuring that there is order in the country and that the atmosphere was conducive for economic development. To that end, the measures that I have clearly outlined speak to ensuring that there is more efficiency in the ZPS. Let me confirm that there are rapid response units in the police service. The fact that many vehicles, which will be domiciled in our various constituencies, have been purchased across all the constituencies speaks to ensuring that they also form part of the rapid response function.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, the question on the Floor is very important. I want to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Chadiza for raising it.

Madam Speaker, the question is about enhancing service delivery in the Zambia Police Service (ZPS). In his response, the hon. Minister highlighted several measures that are being implemented to enhance service delivery, one of which is the implementation of the Safe City Project cameras. Not too long ago, as the Acting hon. Minister maybe aware, the substantive hon. Minister launched the Safe City Project. He informed the nation that the cameras can pick minute activities as far as Chilanga for installations that could be within the town centre. So, how convenient is it that when the city is under surveillance, a prominent member of the community is abducted and shot dead, as in the incident that happened just yesterday? Further, our friend, Hon. E. J. Banda, was abducted under the surveillance of cameras. In addition, Judge Muma was abducted and thrown into the Zambezi River under the watch of those safe city cameras.

Madam Speaker, how convenient is it that when the city is under surveillance, the cameras are shut just when people are being abducted? Police officers are not able to obtain any information from the surveillance cameras even though we have been told by the substantive hon. Minister that they can pick out minute details as far as Chilanga. How convenient is it that in those cases that I have highlighted, the cameras were off?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I need to advise the hon. Member because the question is, probably, arising from his limited understanding of engineering.

Interruptions

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Just answer the question. Do not refer to his qualifications.

Interruptions

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, we all have limited capabilities. One cannot be a jack of all trades.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I sympathise with the hon. Member. Obviously, in all his grandstanding, he thinks that he is the only one who can answer these questions.

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Eng. Nzovu: You have asked a question, let me answer you.

Madam Speaker, if you are going to provide any system engineering, …

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Eng. Nzovu: … there is a margin of error.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, you have asked a question. Allow the hon. Minister to answer it. You have continued talking, answering and shouting. That is unbecoming of an honourable Member. Please, restrain yourself. We all have emotions, let us guard them.

Mr Anakoka: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, continue.

No points of order at this point.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I would like to answer the question. All the questions must be devoid of abuse.

You cannot abuse everyone.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, indeed, there was an unfortunate incident, that is of Hon. E. J. Banda disappearing –

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, I do not know how many times I can advise and guide you. Please, restrain yourself. Allow the hon. Minister to answer the question, and do so in silence.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, we have no evidence that any camera was switched off, as the hon. Member is alleging. Cameras, including the cameras just here, in this House, cannot pick up every minute element. That is why I am saying that there are limits to what these gadgets can do as well. In fact, the police at the moment are actively –

Ms Mulenga interjected.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalulushi, please, restrain yourself. How many times do you want to be sent out of the House? This is an honourable House and you are an honourable Member. So, you should do honourable things. Debating whilst you are seated does not add value to what we are doing, and it is lowering the decorum and standing of this House.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, the question on the Floor of the House is clear. It is asking about the measures the Government is implementing to enhance service delivery in the police service. I have outlined several measures. If one outlines several measures to improve a situation, it only means that the situation was not good at all in the beginning. We need to interrogate the measures put in place. Indeed, the Safe City Project requires installing several cameras, but there will still be limits. That is why, looking at the camera footage and reviewing what happened before and during the time of an event only supports the various investigations that are undertaken. So, it is not only the cameras but the investigations being carried out.

Madam Speaker, this is an important question that must not be trivialised. Casting aspersions with no proof should be discouraged. This Government is concerned when any death occurs or any person disappears. That is why the substantive hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security continuously gave us updates on the situation that the hon. Member has mentioned. The police also continuously gave updates. This Government went all out to take one of our own, the hon. Member whom Hon. Mpundu is referring to, to get appropriate healthcare. This is a caring Government, and it will ensure that every citizen, including hon. Members of this House, even the troublesome ones, are taken care of.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister, maybe, you can withdraw the phrase “troublesome ones”.

Interruptions

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word troublesome and replace it with “repeat offenders”.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Let us make progress. I said that there would be no more points of order admitted at this time. The hon. Member for Luena had indicated to raise one and I said no points of order.

Hon. Member for Lumezi, you have just indicated, please, there are no points of order being admitted.

Let us make some progress.

Hon. Member for Kabwata, you may proceed.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, not too long ago, we used to witness how police officers conducted themselves. They would even point a gun at an innocent and defenceless citizen. We also saw how the police would manage to break into some people’s houses, and defecate in those houses.

Interruptions

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, is the Government considering re-training some of the police officers and also building capacity, especially in fighting cybercrime?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, examples are bound. The hon. Member has said that guns were pointed at innocent citizens. One Member in the House, Hon. Tayali, underwent serious torture. Those are the things that we do not want to go back to. I want to confirm in no uncertain terms and clear language that there will be training.

Madam Speaker, remember, this is a police service that was takataka.

Laughter

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, cadres were employed without training. Whilst we ensure that there is good service delivery from our police service, we will train and give them the basic requisites necessary for policing. That is the reason this prudent and methodical Government has bought police vehicles for every constituency. I am a proud Member of Parliament for a rural constituency because I have a police vehicle, a situation which has not been seen before in the last twenty years. Most hon. Members will attest to the fact that they had no police vehicles in their constituencies. Now, they even have Landcruiser’s “cru crus” and will soon have ambulances.

Laughter

Eng. Nzovu: What more can the distinguished ladies and gentlemen ask for?

Madam Speaker, all these interventions are to ensure that services in the police service are enhanced. Ensuring that there is peace in the country is of paramount importance. That is why we have seen increased Foreign Direct Investments (FDIs). The economy is growing. We have restructured the debt.

Interruptions

Eng. Nzovu: Hon. Dr Musokotwane can increase the CDF allocation and there is free education. All of that is done to create the right atmosphere for economic growth.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let us tone down, hon. Members.

Hon. Member for Lukashya, you may proceed.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, it is becoming difficult to have innocent discussions in this House. I want to ask an innocent question, and I hope, the hon. Minister will give me an innocent answer.

Madam Speaker, one of the greatest challenges that the police service has is policing communities that are densely populated. In my constituency, there are two wards with a combination of almost 62,000 people. Those are Chiba and Kupumaula wards. In terms of community policing, why is the police service not extending the construction of police infrastructure to densely populated areas such as Chiba and Kupumaula?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, let me thank the Senior Counsel for the question. I have a lot of respect for this man. Whenever he rises, the types of questions he asks are based on mature topics that teach us.

Interruptions

Eng. Nzovu: It is good to acknowledge your fellow hon. Members of Parliament. This man teaches me many things. That is a fact.

Madam Speaker, let me get back to the question that the hon. Senior Counsel, State Counsel in waiting, has asked about densely populated areas. Community policing is one of the measures that is being implemented. We will enhance the intervention and, indeed, infrastructure development. I think that coming up with the necessary infrastructure, such as police stations, is under point No. 7, in which I said that the Government is currently investing in various infrastructure development projects for the police service. There are places with no infrastructure that are on our radar. If there are specific needs for Lukashya, I will hand over the request to the substantive hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Sabao (Chikankata): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to ask a question.

Madam Speaker, let me use this opportunity to congratulate Hon. Nkulukusa for being appointed Minister for Central Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Your neighbour!

Mrs Sabao My neighbour.

Madam Speaker, Chikankata has a population of more than 98,000 people, and we have less than ten police officers in the district. Is the ratio of police officers to the general public sufficient for policing the nation?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, let me also join her in congratulating Hon. Nkulukusa on his well-deserved appointment.

Congratulations, sir.

Mr Chisopa interjected.

Eng Nzovu: It is well-deserved, hon. Member.

Madam Speaker, in terms of the measures that the ministry is taking, No. 3 of the interventions I shared earlier is the recruitment of 2,000 constables to enhance staffing levels. I clearly stated that the ZPS is expected to improve service delivery in the country by increasing police presence to prevent crime and increase on the number of officers in the service. Further, I am aware of the approval of the implementation of 500 promotional positions by the Management Development Division (MDD), which will also enhance service delivery.

Madam Speaker, to augment my answer for the sake of the hon. Member, I want to state that police strength stands at 21,282. However, the newly approved structure has 36,000 positions. The Government recognised the deficiencies and has approved the new structure. So, we expect that more police officers will be sent to all the areas of the country.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I want it placed on record that I commend our men and women in uniform. I do not think that it is right to classify them as unprofessional.

Madam Speaker, the police service has a fuel challenge. I will relate this point to my constituency. The police service never has a sufficient allocation of fuel. In its appropriation or budgeting, does the ministry handle the fuel budget case-by-case based on the area? Each time there is a murder or a case of suicide in Nalolo West, the body can stay up to four days at the crime scene with everybody looking at it because the police officers have no fuel to move around. They have to go through Sioma and Shangombo. So, I have to foot the bill so that the decomposed body can be taken to the mortuary. How is the ministry resolving this issue for the constituencies that are vast, such as Nalolo and Mitete, and are two in one? It takes a person seven hours to travel from one part of the constituency to the other. How is the ministry working on that? It is a big problem even in Shangombo. By the way, the Western Province has a sandy terrain. So, if the ministry allocates the same amounts for fuel purchases for districts in the Eastern Province and the Western Province, for example, then, we have a big problem because we are dipping into our pockets to ensure that we maintain sanity in the constituencies.

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, let me join the hon. Member for Nalolo in commending our men and women in uniform for the good job that they are doing, particularly from the time the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government took over. We have seen professionalism in the service.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Eng. Nzovu: I can only encourage them to continue doing their work. The Government will support them with infrastructure, more vehicles, surveillance cameras and all the items they need to ensure that there is good policing in the country.

Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member for Nalolo that, indeed, issues of fuel purchases were being advanced by our police officers, and at some point, issues with receipt books for the purchases were also raised. Now that they are more professional, I want to encourage them to utilise the little resources we have prudently. There are other aspects to this. In some areas, due to population growth, sometimes, more cases than planned for in particular months occur. Such instances put a toll on the budget line provided to the police service. I heard somebody say that we should also be budgeting for fuel under the CDF. We are looking at all such measures to ensure that we improve the operational efficiency of the police service.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: The last question will be asked by an Independent hon. Member.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister alluded to the fact that we have police vehicles that were bought using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), and the police stations have boundaries. For example, in my constituency, most police posts are under Ndola Central Police Station, not Masala Police Station. So, the vehicle that was bought under the CDF is only found in Ndola Central Constituency, not Bwana Mkubwa. How does the ministry intend to mitigate boundary issues, as we budget for funds for police patrols under the CDF so that we can have visibility?

I can see my neighbour smiling (pointing at Hon. Tayali).

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, this issue cuts across many constituencies. I come from Nangoma Constituency, which is one of the constituencies in Mumbwa District. Hon. Nanjuwa is based in the urban side of Mumbwa. We have a challenge because most of the time our police vehicle is in Mumbwa town. We have made presentations to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development as well as the substantive hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to see how we can effectively utilise the vehicles in our various constituencies. The problem needs to be resolved. On the one hand, we have done well by procuring the vehicles using the CDF. On the other hand, I think we need to enhance the management of the vehicles so that constituencies like Bwana Mkubwa and Nangoma can benefit. In districts that have two constituencies, these vehicles are in the urban part of the district most of the times. We will do everything possible to ensure that the issue that the hon. Member has raised is resolved.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

PROVISION OF INTERNET CONNECTIVITY IN SECONDARY SCHOOLS IN CHITAMBO DISTRICT

400. Mr Mutale (Chitambo) asked the Minister of Education:

whether there are any secondary schools in Chitambo District that are earmarked for provision of internet connectivity;

if so, how many schools are earmarked for the exercise;

what the names of the schools are; and

when the project will commence.

The Minister of Technology and Science (Mr Mutati) (on behalf of the Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima)): Madam Speaker, the Government provides Internet connectivity to schools through the following channels:

Government institutions such as the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA), the Zambia Research and Education Network (ZAMREN), the SMART Zambia Institute and the Ministry of Education; and
co-operating partners, such as Liquid Intelligent Technologies, which has a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the Government to connect 1,291 secondary schools to the Internet.

Madam Speaker, seven secondary schools in Chitambo District are earmarked for the provision of Internet connectivity through the MoU signed between the Government and Liquid Intelligent Technologies. The names of the schools under this intervention are Justine Mukando Boarding, Mpelembe Secondary School, Mabonde Secondary School, Kafinda Secondary School, Chipaata Day Secondary School, Misumba Secondary School and Lusenga Day Secondary.

Madam Speaker, the project has commenced and, so far, 489 secondary schools are in the advanced stage of being connected. Of the 489 schools, eighty-five schools are fully connected.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I am grateful that the Government understands the importance of connecting schools to the Internet. In schools nowadays, children are learning Information and Communication Technologies (ICTs).

Madam Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Minister said that the project is in progress. When he says that the project is in progress, which school has the ministry connected to the Internet in Chitambo so far? The answer he has given appears to be based on a countrywide rollout. Which schools in Chitambo has the ministry started working on? I want to know so that I can inform the people of Chitambo to be ready for this project.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I have said that seven schools are earmarked for Internet connectivity, and the plan is to connect the seven schools by the end of the year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity, on behalf of the people of Lumezi, to ask the Acting hon. Minister I emphasise on ‘acting’ Minister. Balitubomfya sana bamudala aba as Independent Members of Parliament.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lumezi!

What did you say? We did not hear what you said. You said it in vernacular. What is the meaning?

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister used us, as Independent Members of Parliament, at some point when going to meet the Republican President and never got back to us. So, it is an opportunity –

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Is that a complaint? Are you now willing to work with the people on my right?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Even yesterday, the hon. Member was saying, “We are ready to be Ministers”. Today, he is saying that he has not been taken.

If you are willing, hon. Member, you can discuss with the hon. Members on the other side, and they will take you.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, what happened is that when the hon. Minister took us to meet the President, he became a Minister.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Ask your supplementary question, hon. Member.

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about working with co-operating partners. When will those partners join the team that is rolling out Information and Communication Technology (ICT) infrastructure in Chitambo?

Madam Speaker: I think we will have a few cross overs soon.

Laughter

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I am sure that the preamble to the hon. Member’s question was on a lighter note.

Madam Speaker, the answer to the substantive question on the co-operating partners is that Liquid Intelligent Technologies, in particular, is going to connect all the secondary schools over a certain period of time. It will not only connect schools in Chitambo, but all the secondary schools in all the constituencies throughout Zambia over a period of time. That is why I said that we are connecting 1,291 secondary schools. Those are the ones that we have in total currently in the Republic of Zambia. So, it is all the secondary schools.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I am sorry, I might sound like I want to press the hon. Minister against the wall. However, it is just for information purposes.

Madam Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Minister said that this project was in progress, and I asked him which school had been connected so far or which ones had the ministry started working on. In his response, he said that this project will end by December. My question, again, is: When is the ministry connecting the schools in Chitambo? I need to know so that I can inform the people, and they get ready for the connections.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I was specific. I said that eighty-five schools countrywide have already been connected. Another 489 schools have been earmarked for connection this year. Out of the 489, seven are in Chitambo.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: The schools were named but, maybe, the hon. Member wanted to know when the ministry is commencing the exercise. Hon. minister, you said that the project will be done by the end of this year. However, when is the ministry rolling out the connectivity for the seven schools?

Mr Mutale: Tabeshibe!

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, I cannot specify the dates because the project is being undertaken by our co-operating partner. The company has a schedule for rolling out connectivity across the country. If the hon. Member wants to know the specific dates, then, he can contact the ministry.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, just like in Chitambo, Chama South has about four secondary schools, and the notable one is Chama South Boarding School, which has more than 600 pupils. Most of the pupils in Grade 10 to Grade 12 do not know what the Internet is.

Madam Speaker, you will remember that the hon. Minister promised that all the hon. Members would receive Starlink kits. We were very excited. He said that by the following week, from the date he made the statement, we would start receiving the kits. That “next week” has now turned into six months.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ehe!

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, when is the hon. Minister, under his substantive ministry, giving us the Starlink kits that were meant for our constituency offices? Some of us have decided to share those kits with the schools in our constituencies so that our pupils can access internet connectivity while we wait for the secondary school connectivity rollout. The hon. Minister promised us. I do not know who, among us, has received a Starlink kit.

Hon. UPND Member: We have!

Mr Mung’andu: Some of us have not received them. It is only you in Lusaka who have received the kits.

Madam Speaker, when can we have the Starlink kits so that they can cushion the need for Internet while we are waiting for the school Internet connectivity plans under the Ministry of Education?

Madam Speaker: Although the question is not related to one on the Floor, the hon. Minister is also in charge of Technology and Science, and all the hon. Members are interested in the Starlink kits, I will give him the opportunity to answer the question.

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, we committed, as the Government, to give Starlink kits to every hon. Member and, indeed, that commitment has been delivered on. We delivered 156 kits, …

Mr Kapyanga: Where are they?

Mr Mutati: … to Parliament’s ICT Department. It is up to hon. Members to just take a short walk to the ICT Department here, at Parliament, to get their kits.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Hon. Members: They are there!

Mr Mung’andu left the Assembly Chamber.

Madam Speaker (laughed): The hon. Member is already walking to the Information and communication technology (ICT) Department.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, maybe, just for the purposes of information, there is a process of installation. Presently, there are two teams that are conducting installations in the Northern Province. So, the hon. Minister has delivered, it is just the process of installation that is ongoing.

Hon. Members, please, take interest and liaise with the Office of the Clerk to see when your kit will be installed.

So, on that note, we can make progress because I know –

Mr Mushanga interjected.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Bwacha will be the last one to ask a supplementary question.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for this opportunity.

Madam Speaker, in one of the responses, the hon. Minister indicated that so far, eighty-five schools have been connected to the Internet. Is it possible for the Ministry of Technology and Science to make the list available to hon. Members of Parliament so that we can move at the same pace with the ministry in knowing the schools that have been connected to the Internet in our provinces, districts as well as our constituencies?

Mr Mutati: Madam Speaker, that is a straightforward matter, just as we delivered the Starlink kits to Parliament, I want to urge hon. Members to make a bit of effort in taking the next step. We shall provide them with the list of the secondary schools that have been fully connected for their information.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, take interest in following up on the kits and get the list, if you are keen on knowing which schools are going to be connected.

Let us make progress.

PLANS TO CLEAR CANALS IN CHILUBI

401. Mr Fube asked the Minister of Transport and Logistics:

whether the Government has any plans to clear canals leading to the following wards in Chilubi Parliamentary Constituency:

Katamba;

Chishiba;

Bumba;

Lwangwa;

Kanama;

Mubemba;

Chinkundu;

Chiloba; and

Mofu;

if so, when the plans will be implemented;

what the cost of the project is; and

if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the Government has plans to clear all the canals countrywide to ease the movement of passengers and cargo. The plans will be implemented once resources are available as the exercise was not provided for in the 2024 Budget. Further, since the development and management of canals is in the process of being devolved to the local authorities, the Government will consider making provisions for the dredging of canals in the affected wards in Chilubi through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) under Chilubi Constituency.

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of the project will be determined once an assessment is conducted.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, since the hon. Minister has limited the question to dredging in his response, is the ministry also considering boosting the local authorities with a weed harvester? If I got him right, he said that the function of clearing canals will be given to the local authorities. Looking at the topography in Chilubi, which includes swamps, the island as well as the mainland, some of the wards that have been mentioned; nine out of the twenty-four wards, are in the swamps, on the island and the mainland. Has the ministry considered boosting the local authority in the constituency with a weed harvester, especially since there are also weeds in the canals?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member must embrace change. It is the policy of this Government to devolve the functions of clearing the waterways, and weed harvesting is part of that process. Apart from dredging, we must also ensure that the waterways are clear of weeds.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, may I also join the hon. Members who have congratulated the hon. Member for Katuba Constituency on his appointment as Central Province Minister.

The House is proud of you, mwine chishi.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the Government is in the process of devolving the function of clearing canals to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, and that has not yet happened. Now that the hon. Member has brought the issue of clearing the canals to the attention of the Government, will the Government consider coming up with a budget for clearing the canals in the 2025 National Budget so that the House can appropriate resources towards that function?

Mr Tayali: No, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Maybe, you can amplify your answer, hon. Minister.

Laughter

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, when the Government says that it is in the process of devolving certain functions, it means that the process has already started in earnest. Handovers are already taking place. That function will now be under the local authorities. The hon. Member will do well to engage the local authorities and make plans with them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has told the House that the process of devolving the canal clearing function from the ministry to the Local Government is in process. Meanwhile, our people in that area need to move from point “A” to point “B”. Are there any immediate interventions that the Government can put in place to ensure that our people continue moving from one point to the other with goods and services, as we wait for that process to be culminated into a complete transfer of functions?

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, perhaps this issue is becoming a matter of semantics. The functions have been devolved. It is expected that the budget for dredging and clearing of weeds from canals should have been embraced by the local authority. As far as the ministry is concerned, the function has been handed over to local authorities.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, it looks like you should follow up on the matter with the local authority.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, before I ask my follow-up question, allow me to clarify the impression that the hon. Minister gave that I am against devolution, that is not the case. He said that I should embrace change. I was an advocate for devolution long before I became a Member of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the CDF is the main source of funds that the Local Government will bank on once devolution takes place. The canals in question are serious capital projects. We have tried to use the CDF at a smaller scale, and that has not helped. The hon. Minister may wish to note that we cleared the Chaba Mchinshi Canal using the dredger that is in the district. We used the CDF to undertake clearing works, but the funds were a drop in the ocean. Given that background, I would like the hon. Minister to inform the people of Chilubi Constituency how fiscal devolution will be handled. Will the Government budget for or capitalise the local authority apart from the CDF? I can attest to the fact that the CDF cannot aid the quantity of work that is involved in clearing the canals in the nine wards.

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to object and say that I did not state that the functions would be wholly absorbed by the CDF. The nature of the CDF is such that individual constituencies prioritise their needs. In the case of Chilubi Constituency, I appreciate that water transport is extremely important, going by the nature of the terrain. The CDF is merely there to supplement what the local authorities are supposed to be doing on behalf of the people. Also, I do not agree with the hon. Member’s point on the colossal sums of money involved in clearing canals because I do not think that we are talking about purchasing equipment to carry out such functions. That is not the case because the equipment is already in place. It is only a matter of operationalising and financing the functions in terms of purchasing fuel to carry out those tasks.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The last question will be asked by the hon. Member for Kanchibiya.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, the water bodies in Chilubi join with the water bodies in Kanchibiya at some point. As a matter of interest, when does the hon. Minister plan to tour those water bodies? Are there plans for him to tour the water bodies?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics, you are being invited to visit the areas that have the canals.

Hon. Member: In a canoe!

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that open invitation.

Madam Speaker, as a matter of fact, I am departing for Samfya tomorrow in my quest to appreciate some of the things that are happening around the water bodies.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE ZAMBIAN DELEGATION TO THE 55TH SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY PARLIAMENTARY FORUM (SADC-PF) PLENARY ASSEMBLY

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Zambian Delegation to the 55^th Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) Plenary Assembly hosted by the Parliament of Angola in Luanda, from 1^st July, 2024, to 7^th July, 2024. The Report was laid on the Table of the House on 24^th July, 2024.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Ms Nyemba (Chifunabuli): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, pursuant to Order No. 154 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders 2024, I wish to render a report on the activities of the 55^th Plenary Assembly Session as well as an executive summary highlighting the key recommendations made by the Assembly.

Madam Speaker, the 55^th Plenary Assembly session convened under the theme, “The Role of Parliaments in Promoting Renewable Energy Policies in the SADC Region and Creating a Single Regional Energy Market”. The theme was intended to strengthen the institutional capacity of national parliaments and to understand policies and regulatory frameworks for renewable energy in the SADC region with inherent advantages for the economies and citizens.

Madam Speaker, the objectives of the Plenary Assembly were to, among others:

emphasise the crucial role played by parliamentary institutions, such as the SADC-PF and the national parliaments, in boosting the adoption and implementation of renewable energy policies in the SADC region;

discuss the potential of renewable energy in catalysing socio-economic development;

mitigate the impact of climate change and promote energy independence in the region; and

identify strategies to improve cross border co-operation, public-private partnerships (PPPs) and stakeholder engagement to accelerate the transition to renewable energy and achieve global objectives of improving energy access, security and efficiency in the region.

Madam Speaker, the Plenary Assembly was officially opened by the President of the SADC-PF, and Speaker of the National Assembly of Seychelles, Hon. Roger Mancienne, who reminded Members of Parliament that the pressing realities of climate change and the global energy transition require urgent sustainable energy solutions. In that regard, renewable energy policies are essential for reducing the carbon footprint by significantly reducing reliance on fossil fuels, enhancing energy security and driving economic growth within the region. Hon. Mancienne observed that by creating a single regional energy market, SADC will harness the collective potential of member states, and promote greater co-operation and efficiency in energy production, and distribution.

Madam Speaker, Hon. Mancienne also congratulated Zambia for being the eleventh country to sign the agreement amending the SADC Treaty to establish the SADC Parliament. As this august House is aware, the agreement was signed by Zambia on the side-lines of the Plenary Assembly by the Minister of Justice, Hon. Princess Kasune, MP. The hon. Minister was designated by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, pursuant to Article No. 92(1), Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, I now wish to highlight some of the key recommendations contained in the report. The Plenary Assembly resolved to promote renewable energy policies and create a unified single energy market by utilising the untapped potential of renewable sources in the SADC region and prioritising key projects such as the Inga Dam Hydro-Electric Project in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the use of nuclear power to generate electricity.

Madam Speaker, there is a need for scientific research into community-based renewable energy projects. Member states should benchmark and adopt progressive systems that combine solar power and biogas to provide electricity to rural areas and, in the process, drive community involvement. This resolution by the Plenary Assembly seeks to replicate successful models ensuring financial, technical and regulatory support from governments to foster local renewable energy initiatives.

Madam Speaker, the Plenary Assembly recognised Angola’s progress towards becoming Africa’s green energy bank, and adopted the resolution to leverage mapping studies for identifying renewable energy potential. With substantial potential in solar, wind and hydropower, Angola serves as a model for other member states. A good example is the massive and extensive Biopio Solar Photovoltaic (PV) Park with 500,000 solar panels in Benguela, south of Angola. The solar park produces 188.8 MW of clean energy for more than 2 million people. Hon. Members who were part of the delegation can agree that the park is an impressive sight. The Plenary Assembly called for regional collaboration in maximising renewable energy capacity and creating a sustainable energy network within the SADC region.

Madam Speaker, as I have already stated, Zambia signed the agreement amending the SADC Treaty on the transformation of the SADC-PF into a fully-fledged regional Parliament. Recognising the crucial role of a regional parliamentary institution in fostering democracy, good governance and socio-economic development, the Plenary Assembly adopted the resolution to intensify and finalise efforts for the transformation of the forum to align the region with other African regional blocs and anchor it firmly within the Pan-African Parliament (PAP). All the members of the delegation are hopeful that this agenda will be achieved in the shortest possible time.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to express profound gratitude, on behalf of the delegation to the 55^th Plenary Assembly, to you and the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support rendered to it during the undertaking.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms Nyemba: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to second this important Motion.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, allow me to thank Hon. Kalalwe Mukosa, Member of Parliament for Chinsali, for ably moving the Motion.

Madam Speaker, as rightly stated by the mover, the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) 55^th Plenary Assembly deliberated on the theme, “The Role of Parliaments in Promoting Renewable Energy Policies in the SADC Region and Creating a Single Regional Energy Market”, and it was held in Angola from 1^st July, 2024, to 7^th July, 2024. The theme was timely and relevant because it was responding to the challenges that the SADC region continues to face and has caused an electricity crisis since the early 2000s due to demographic growth and considerable progress in industrial infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, in seconding this Motion, allow me to state that participating in this symposium and conference, in general, confirmed and reminded me that climate change challenges are not peculiar to Zambia, but affect the whole region and globally as well. The effects of climate change have incapacitated most electricity management bodies due to the fact that, to a great degree, the energy-generating bodies depend on natural resources, such as hydro and solar. Therefore, instead of bemoaning the situation, the Zambian Government must research and invest in alternative energy.

Madam Speaker, further to the mover’s submission, climate change continues to pose significant challenges, hence, it is crucial that, as our Government responds to building resilience, the mitigation and adaptation measures are gender sensitive. Women are often the worst affected by climate-related disasters, as evidenced by the current El Niño weather phenomenon-induced droughts affecting several SADC member states. Parliaments should take proactive steps to ensure that women are not affected and that they have a voice in climate-related decision-making processes. That may entail the Executive linking small and medium enterprises (SMEs) to microfinancing institutions, providing tax liberties on alternative energy equipment and empowering local people with the necessary knowledge on alternative energy.

Madam Speaker, as the mover indicated, the standing committees submitted their statutory meeting reports during the Plenary Assembly. The reports highlighted pertinent matters that are affecting our region. Just to elaborate further on the mover's submission, I would like to mention that the Standing Committee on Food, Agriculture and Natural Resources made key recommendations on how parliaments can strengthen food security and sustainable agriculture, enhance sexual reproductive health outcomes and govern natural resources effectively.

Madam Speaker, the Standing Committee on Human Social Development and Special Programmes highlighted progressive recommendations on how parliaments can advance the Africa Union (AU) Agenda 2040 for Children whose theme is: “Strengthening Parliamentary Engagement for Child-Centred Legislation and Policies”.

Madam Speaker, in the interest of time, let me wind up my debate by taking advantage of this opportunity to thank you for the opportunity given to the delegation to attend the 55^th SADC-PF Plenary Assembly. In addition, I would like to congratulate you on Zambia being the eleventh SADC country to accede to the agreement to amend the treaty soon after the official opening of the Assembly. Finally, allow me to extend a congratulatory message to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) which also acceded to the agreement post-Plenary Assembly in Angola, thereby, reaching the desired twelve signatories threshold.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I beg to second.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, firstly, I would like to appreciate the fact that Zambia was part of the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) Plenary Assembly that gathered to discuss renewable energy issues.

Madam Speaker, my mind is occupied with the theme of the Plenary Assembly, which talks about parliaments promoting renewable energy policies to the extent that those policies should collapse into a single market. However, I think that we are talking about markets before addressing the potential. I believe that much research was done on hydropower. The report indicates that globally, the SADC region contributes about 1080 terawatts per hour per year. When you look at that figure, you will see that only 31 terawatts per hour per year is being used. That is a very sad story especially when we view the situation through the lenses of a renewable energy mix approach. Whereas we talk about thermal energy in the same report, which mainly covers the Rift Valley of Tanzania, Mozambique and Malawi with a capacity of about 4000 MW, we overlook the issue of biogas and the potential of wind as sources of renewable energy in the SADC region.

Madam Speaker, what comes to mind is the more than twenty-year-old protocol on the renewable energy that was there in 1996, which to me has been overtaken by events in the sense that when one looks at the sources from which we are supposed to tap hydropower, that is the Cabora Bassa Dam and the Zambezi Basin’s overflow into the Cabora Bassa Dam, many things have happened over the years. Given that scenario, it means that what was stipulated in the protocol is not even responding to the Conference of the Parties (COP) agenda that we have attended, as a nation. The resolutions of COP 26 and COP 27 are not resonating in the protocol. Also, the protocol does not match with local policies on renewable energy. The report has highlighted some of the projects that are being implemented in other countries, and how renewable energy paths have been utilised. Zambia also has a massive renewable energy path. So, I hope that when the delegation attends the Plenary Assembly next time, it will also present something on what is happening in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, allow me to talk about climate awareness and early warning systems. Climate awareness in SADC countries is low and does not include community participation. Issues of climate awareness are only understood at the level of those who are educated. My mother or grandmother in the village does not understand what climate awareness is. They cut trees for firewood anyhow and they will burn the grass when it has dried up and is ready for clearing. They will simply burn land for no reason. Not for mice or anything. That is a signal that we have a lot to do.

Madam Speaker, in terms of early warning systems, the instruments that we use mainly in Zambia are those of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) coupled with the Zambia Meteorological Department, and many others. The effects of the El Niño weather phenomenon we are facing currently were widespread. I think it was simply a situation in which one is warned about something, but one relaxes and takes a laissez-faire approach to that effect. Everything should take a bottom-up approach in terms of community participation. If this is just left within the domain of the educated, then, people who deplete the natural resources to the extent of risking ecological damage will not understand the effects of their actions. Majority of them have not been to school. So, they do not understand. The factors that are linked to the renewable energy mix are also linked to the economy. The information has to be unbundled to the lowest level of understanding so that at the end of the day, when we have an opportunity to present such a picture at a Plenary Assembly, we will be talking about a picture that we can defend. I do not need to underscore that all the SADC countries that gathered at the Plenary Assembly have massive capacity for renewable energy, including biomass and wind.

Madam Speaker, let me also venture into the content on page No. 2 of the report, which links to our Constitution in terms of the roles we play, as hon. Members of Parliament. I think you attended the launch of the 2024-2028 SADC-PF Strategic Plan. Among other things, the SADC-PF is supposed to provide representation, legislation and a budget oversight role. We have a role to play in the renewable energy agenda. We can influence the agenda by looking at the model laws so that we can have a fortified front in tackling renewable energy issues.

Madam Speaker, I also want to underscore the fact that renewable energy is also connected to a right-based approach, which this Parliament should equally embrace in taking on board the roles that are stipulated in the Constitution. We are simply talking about the issue of sustainable development. When we look at what has been localised, we see that we still use the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) that were developed at an international level. We have not churned out local policies and legislative measures that can help us locally. We need to think globally and act locally. Given that background, we are behind in action in that we need to venture out more. When we think about renewable energy, we should think about sustainable development because it is linked to nature.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, on behalf of the people of Chilubi, I support the report.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity given to me to contribute to the debate on the Motion.

The time in the House was 1640 hours.

Mr Kang’ombe Madam Speaker, can I commence my debate when we resume the business of the House at 1700 hours?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Just continue, hon. Member. When break time approaches –

Mr Kang’ombe: My flow will be affected, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Oh, you are looking at the time?

Mr Kang’ombe: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Just start.

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, my flow will be affected.

Laughter

Hon. Member: As the time is!

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended at 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, the Motion is requesting this House to adopt the Report of the Zambian Delegation to the 55^th Southern African Development Community - Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) Plenary Assembly. We cannot adopt this report without making a few comments. The comments are meant to enrich what has already been drafted in the report.

Mr Speaker, the theme of the conference that took place in Angola is what attracted me to read this report as well as make the comments that I wish to. This report has about nineteen pages. Among the nineteen pages, there is only one page that speaks to the theme of the conference to which the Zambian delegation travelled to represent our country, that is page No. 7. The theme reads, “The Role of Parliaments in Promoting Renewable Energy Policies in the SADC Region and Creating a Single Regional Energy Market”. As I have already said, out of the nineteen pages, only one page talks about what was discussed in relation to the theme. That is why I wish to make the following comments.

Mr Speaker, the meeting recommended three things. Firstly, enhanced collaboration. The last sentence under this point states the need for cross-border energy trade. This means that Zambia participates by exporting and importing electricity. Exportation and importation of electricity depends on which country has excess energy.

Mr Speaker, the second bullet point is on enhanced resource mobilisation and exploration of innovative financing mechanisms. Further, the third bullet point talks about lawmakers having the capacity to develop the correct regulations.

Mr Speaker, my concern, which should be the concern of everyone gathered in the House this afternoon, is the pricing of alternative sources of energy. Currently, our country is facing challenges in the provision of electricity, yet we expect the economy to continue moving at the correct pace, support our small and medium enterprises (SMEs), and support economic growth, in general. I think that it would have been a great opportunity to discuss the pricing of alternative sources of energy at some point in the nineteen pages of the report. Unfortunately, that was not the case. Conversations should have taken place to discuss that issue.

Mr Speaker, I will give a practical example. We are encouraging people to use liquefied petroleum gas, which is commonly referred to as LPG. If one went to Kitwe, one would find a critical shortage of LPG. If one went to Oryx Filling Station looking for LPG, one would not find it because the filling station does not have it because suddenly, the demand for LPG has gone up. However, it is only those who can afford to buy LPG who are buying it, meaning that the rest of the people who want to use alternative energy for their cooking will either resort to buying charcoal or they will start complaining about how load-shedding has affected their day-to-day activities. so, I expected this report to deal with that component.

Mr Speaker, one alternative source of energy is LPG. So, how do we deal with it considering the fact that the theme of the conference was about alternative energy? I hope that the hon. Minister responsible for energy is mindful of the fact that our people cannot afford the high cost of LPG.

Mr Speaker, secondly, in terms of solar energy and the complete kit that one needs to install solar power in one’s home, if I were to ask how many of my dear hon. Colleagues who are seated in this auditorium have afforded and managed to connect their homes to solar power, there is a high chance that the majority have not because of one simple reason. To install solar power, one needs to get an inverter and two batteries; the recommended lithium battery is not cheap. The question that I ask myself is: If those who earn a salary cannot even afford a full set; an inverter, solar panels and two lithium batteries, then, what about the poor people in our respective communities?

Mr Speaker, I expected this report to address the pricing of alternative sources of energy because we want to encourage our people to use renewable sources of energy. However, how many people can afford it? So, as I support this report, based on the other things that have been captured, which are also important, my concern is that a Zambian delegation travelled to Angola to deal with a specific issue, which was to encourage people to start using alternative sources of energy, and the Plenary recognised Parliament as a critical platform to begin those conversations, but the Committee’s report only has one page talking about alternative sources of energy.

Mr Speaker, I think we could have done more with the report. I hope that when the hon. Minister, responds, he will touch on this issue. If a comment has to be made, the question I wish to bring to the Floor of this House is: How many of our people can afford LPG? There is a shortage of LPG. One will not find 15 kg or 4 kg cylinders available at present. Those who can afford to buy LPG are buying it, but what about the majority who cannot?

Mr Speaker, lastly, on the issue of solar energy, I hope that interventions have been put in place to ensure that when we make these products available, our people can buy the solar panels and inverters as well as the two lithium batteries that are needed.

Mr Speaker, as I support this report because it has to be adopted and we all need to be seen as being reasonable in ensuring that the work is not disputed, I think that we could have done more considering the purpose for which the Zambian delegation travelled.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker gave the Floor to the hon. Member for Sesheke and the hon. Member for Kabwata but they were not in the House.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, allow me to debate in support of this very important Motion. I am going to debate this Motion in the context of rural communities and, in particular, the rural constituency that I represent.

Mr Speaker, starting with the role that hon. Members of Parliament can play in promoting renewable energy, again, allow me to contextualise and speak through the lenses of rural areas. Firstly, I believe that it is important for this House to advocate for policies and legislation that support renewable energy development, which not only favour interest but also respond to the unique challenges in the rural communities. It is important that this House, in working with the Government, allocates more resources for renewable energy projects and initiatives.

Mr Speaker, on our end, as legislators, our role should also involve pushing and encouraging private-public partnerships (PPPs) for rural energy infrastructure. That would also mean more support for the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) and, above and beyond, more support towards the PPPs in rural energy infrastructure.

Mr Speaker, tapping into academia, we must encourage institutions of learning to engage in research and ensure the development of new renewable energy initiatives and technologies. This is a challenge that our institutions of learning, including primary and secondary schools, can respond to. The Junior Engineers, Technicians Scientists (JETS), for example, should also be recognised and brought to the centre stage to start imagining renewable energy technologies that can be invented for the rural communities.

Mr Speaker, this House needs to pay attention to advocating and pushing for grid expansion and modernisation to expand and accommodate rural renewable energy initiatives. Renewable energy must respond to our needs in rural areas for the simple reason that some of us come from areas that have four chiefdoms, for example, and yet we can have an entire chiefdom without a single electric bulb. We are aware and alive to the challenges of climate change, and what comes with hydro-generated power.

Mr Speaker, the need for us to go into renewable energy production is because, then, we would have an avenue for providing energy for lighting and heating in our rural communities. That would also create jobs in installation, maintenance and manufacturing of the required components in rural areas. So, we can also stimulate local economies if we invest in renewable energy for rural communities. We can enhance food security if we invest in renewable energy, and I speak to irrigation and agricultural processing.

Mr Speaker, improving healthcare and education is critical through reliable renewable energy. So, this matter is very important to us. Even as we respond to the challenges of energy and the energy deficit at national level, we need to start thinking not just outside but away from the box because it is clear that the box does not exist anymore. We need to think outside the box and bring the academia, institutions of learning, on board and also become a nation that prioritises research.

Mr Speaker, at the moment, if you look at what we allocate towards research, as a country, you will see that the paltry allocation speaks to the lack of seriousness we attach to innovations around technologies that can spur industrialisation and unlock rural communities for productivity.

Mr Speaker, renewable energy is critical and we all, as hon. Members of Parliament, have a duty to advocate for policies that mainstream rural communities. I am not ashamed to say that when we come to this House, some of us ensure that on critical subjects such as these, we view the matter through the lens of the people and the communities we represent.

Mr. Speaker, with those few remarks, I wish to say that I support the Motion to adopt this report.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation (Mr Haimbe, SC.): Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to thank you for according me the chance to comment on the Motion to adopt the Report of the Zambian Delegation to the 55^th Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) Plenary Assembly that was held in Luanda, Angola, from 1^st July, 2024, to 7^th July, 2024.

Mr Speaker, to start, I would like to commend the Honourable Madam Speaker and her delegation for representing Zambia so ably at that important event. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation has duly taken note of the contents of the report, including the role of parliamentarians in promoting renewable energy policies in the SADC region, and the discussion on the potential of renewable energies in catalysing socio-economic development, mitigating the impact of climate change and promoting energy independence. In that regard, we are looking forward to the implementation of the resolutions of the report.

Mr Speaker, as you may be aware, the negative effects of climate change have not spared any country on earth, and a recent testimony to that is the drought that Zambia is currently experiencing. For that reason, concerted efforts, such as those contained in the report, are not only appreciated but also timely. As Zambia continues to interact with the outside world, it is prudent that events such as the one that this report is about, are prioritised because they avail an opportunity for the country to share knowledge and benefit from the technical expertise of other countries.

Mr Speaker, I would like to underscore something that is of critical importance in terms of this debate that has taken place on the Floor of this House today, of which some suggested that the participation by your delegation in the forum was, perhaps, not in our best interest, as a people.

Mr Speaker, looking at page No. 7 of the report, in particular the recommendations that were made to the SADC member states, all the bullet points point to one important aspect, which is collaboration on a regional basis so that we can leverage on the various resources that each of the SADC nations has and enjoys. The fact that there is an opportunity to leverage the experiences, knowledge and resources within the region entails that the economies of scale will come into play. So, where one country may have Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG), for example, the others can benefit. Where one country has other renewable energy sources such as those that are underutilised in Tanzania, other countries downstream can benefit. Therefore, it is only logical that pulling resources together in the manner suggested in the report is in the interest of all SADC countries, and to argue to the contrary would be to not look at all the factors that are at play. So, I just thought of highlighting that aspect and the fact that we have a regional body, which is SADC, through which we can integrate and grow from one another’s economies. That is an important aspect of this report and the importance of the delegation attending the forum.

Mr Speaker, the efforts being made by the SADC-PF complement my ministry in our quest to advance economic diplomacy by promoting investment in renewable energy solutions to ensure energy security not only for the country but the region as a whole, and perhaps beyond. My ministry will, therefore, continue working closely with institutions such as SADC-PF, towards complementing one another's efforts in combating climate change and other challenges.

Mr Speaker, we also note that energy is at the heart of the climate challenge and key to the solution. A large chunk of the greenhouse gases that blanket the earth and trap the sun's heat are generated through energy production by burning fossil fuels to generate electricity and heat. The science is clear. To avoid the worst impacts of climate change, emissions need to be reduced by almost half by 2030 and reach net-zero by 2050. We can only achieve those gains, as a collective, by effective participation, co-operation and collaboration as member states whether at regional, continental or global levels. It is, therefore, one of the key areas in which my ministry would want to render an assisting hand to ensure that economic diplomacy works hand-in-hand with our efforts in bringing together the various national states.

Mr Speaker, the lessons cited in the report, if replicated in Zambia, can assist the country in contributing immensely to that noble quest. In that regard, I wish to support the adoption of the report.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the seconder of the Motion, Hon. Nyemba, the Member of Parliament for Chifunabuli, for the manner in which she seconded the Motion. I also thank the Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, Hon. Kang’ombe, the Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya, Hon. Chanda, and the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation for the insightful debates.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER

CONSIDERATION OF THE REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REFORMS AND MODERNISATION COMMITTEE

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, before we move on to the next item, let me provide guidance.

Hon. Members, Article No. 89(2) of the Constitution of Zambia states as follows:

“The National Assembly or a parliamentary committee shall not exclude the public or the media from its sittings, unless there are justifiable reasons for the exclusion and the Speaker informs the public or media of the reasons.”

Hon. Members, the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee is classified under the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, as a House-Keeping Committee. In this regard, Order No. 199 states as follows:

“There are established the following House-Keeping Committees:

(d) Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee.”

Hon. Members, the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee deals with in-house matters hinging on the powers, privileges, procedures and practice, organisation and facilities of the National Assembly. For this reason, the debate on the report of the Committee is held in camera. In view of the foregoing, I direct all members of the public and the media to leave the House now. I further direct that broadcasting of the proceedings on Parliament Radio and Television, and the social media page be suspended during the debate on the report.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

_______

MOTION

REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REFORMS AND MODERNISATION COMMITTEE ON THE CAPITALISATION OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO ENHANCE EFFICIENCY IN THE ZAMBIAN PARLIAMENT

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do now adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee for the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 24^th July, 2024.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Ms Nakaponda: Mr Speaker, I will only raise a few points considering that the report was already shared with the hon. Members.

Mr Speaker, your Committee considered two study topics, and these were: ‘An Assessment of how the Zambian Parliament can Capitalise on Artificial Intelligence’ and ‘A Review of the Status of the Implementation of the National Assembly of Zambia Strategic Plan 2022-2026’.

Mr Speaker, artificial intelligence (AI) is a foundational and transformational technology. It provides compelling and helpful benefits to people in almost every field of human endeavour. It would be safe to say that AI has the capacity to assist, complement, empower and inspire people and society.

Mr Speaker, given that this topic hinges directly on the work of hon. Members of Parliament, your Committee adopted a consultative approach in its study. Your Committee invited all the chairpersons of portfolio and general purposes committees who made written and oral submissions on the topics under consideration. Your Committee also leveraged on the lessons from the House of Commons in the United Kingdom (UK) and the Parliament of Brazil in coming up with its final recommendations. In addition, staff from the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly were also invited to make submissions on some of the technical topics on AI and how the National Assembly can leverage it to enhance its operational efficiency.

Mr Speaker, from the interactions and review of submissions made, your Committee noted the following:

An Assessment of How the Zambian Parliament can Capitalise on Artificial Intelligence;

Mr Speaker, AI offers many opportunities for Parliaments, these include automating repetitive procedures, analysing large volumes of data for valuable insights and decision-making. It is widely used to supplement parliamentary services, and predict and prevent crises. More importantly, AI can support efficient and evidence-based decision-making with greater accuracy and speed than traditional techniques.

Mr Speaker, in technologically advanced parliaments, innovations such as electronic petitions (e-petitions), electronic voting (e-voting), virtual parliaments, remote working and, ultimately, electronic democracy (e-democracy), have been implemented. Through these innovations, Parliaments have increasingly become digitally developed to enable seamless workflows and empower citizens’ participation in the work of Parliament. AI, therefore, can be used for performing low-risk tasks. These tasks can range from creating records of parliamentary debates to making valuable insights and analytics focused on predictive and prescriptive analysis, among others.

Mr Speaker, I am glad to report that a number of parliaments are already using and experimenting with AI because it has the potential to support legislative drafting, summarise parliamentary documents, help citizens ask questions about parliamentary activities and create interactive platforms for engagement. The following are some of the countries that have documented the use of AI in their parliaments: Bahrain, Italy, South Africa, the United States (US) House of Representatives, Japan, Netherlands, Brazil and the UK.

Mr Speaker, your Committee noted the overwhelming response from witnesses in support of the capitalisation of AI in making the work of Parliament more efficient. The following were identified as possible areas of implementation of AI in the Zambian Parliament:

legislative and parliamentary business processes including Questions for Oral Answer, Motions and Bills. AI can assist Parliament track what has been considered to avoid repetitions;

generation of the Hansard through voice recognition;

hon. Members and staff accessing meeting schedules, administrative and accounting records, and other documents;

access to the premises and different equipment, which can include voice, face, card or thumbprint recognition;

local language translation, allowing hon. Members to use their preferred languages while the system translates for other hon. Members as well as transcribers; and

citizens’ participation in parliamentary work, for example, my e-parliament application can be enhanced.

Mr Speaker, given the foregoing, your Committee, therefore, makes the following recommendations:

the National Assembly should implement selected aspects of AI in a phased manner guided by a needs assessment and an AI strategy with an implementation plan;

the National Assembly should put measures in place to prevent misinformation; and

the implementation of AI be done under appropriate legislation, regulations and enhanced cybersecurity.

Mr Speaker, I now turn to the review of the status of the implementation of the National Assembly of Zambia Strategic Plan 2022-2026. The goal of the strategic plan is to effectively contribute to enhanced democratic governance for sustainable development. The plan is anchored on three pillars, which are:

parliamentary functions;

public participation; and

administrative service delivery.

Mr Speaker, the National Assembly of Zambia has made some progress in each pillar. The notable ones include capacity building for hon. Members and staff in the use of evidence in their work, and the use of various Information and Communication Technology (ICT) tools and services. These have strengthened the quality of legislative processes, fostering informed decision-making, and enhancing the credibility and effectiveness of the institution. Your Committee was informed that capacity was built for hon. Members of Parliament in various topical issues aimed at enhancing their ability to discharge their oversight function.

Mr Speaker, the National Assembly of Zambia has also enhanced public participation in parliamentary activities. This has been done through the creation of platforms for public participation in legislative processes, publishing Bills timetables in the media and Committee tours. These platforms have facilitated an enabling environment for the public and other stakeholders to be involved in re-shaping the outcomes of the consideration of Bills and Committee tours. This is in line with the tenets of democratic governance.

Mr Speaker, given the foregoing, your Committee makes the following recommendations:

reviews for the strategic plan to be done in time to ensure enough time for rollover and to avoid lost time resulting in underperformance;

the Government, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, to improve its financing to the National Assembly for enhanced performance;

the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to streamline the role of constituency offices in the CDF guidelines; and
all portfolio Committee sessions to be broadcast at appropriate times on Parliament Television (TV).

In Conclusion, Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that the adoption of AI comes with some challenges, among these are ethical concerns related to the potential misuse and violation of privacy and vulnerability to attacks and manipulation by malicious elements. However, in this day and era of ICT, the benefits outweigh the negatives. AI, therefore, is a reform that can be used to modernise Parliament and make it more accessible to the public.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also noted some challenges in the implementation of the strategic plan, including the slow rate of implementation and inadequate funding, which seriously impacted activity implementation. To mitigate this challenge, the institution has heightened resource mobilisation and established a dedicated function in the Clerk's Office. In addition, annual departmental work plans and budgets are being aligned to the strategic plan.

Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia for the support rendered to your Committee.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Michelo: Now, Mr Speaker.

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, it is clear that artificial intelligence (AI) is a topical issue that can no longer be ignored by parliaments, and it was also being discussed at the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) level.

Mr Speaker, the Committee's interactions with hon. Members and its benchmarking tour to the United Kingdom (UK) House of Commons also brought out concerns regarding the welfare of hon. Members of Parliament and staff. Oftentimes, hon. Members of Parliament and staff become stressed due to the demands of their roles. Therefore, parliaments are increasingly making mental health services a primary focus. Parliamentary health and wellbeing services should be the norm in parliaments and workplaces. Areas of focus should include mental health and wellbeing support; medical assessment and occupational health advice, and medical treatment. The National Assembly must provide holistic health and wellbeing programmes for both hon. Members of Parliament and staff, as provided for in the National Assembly of Zambia Strategic Plan 2022-2026, Pillar 3 and Strategic Objective No. 3.2, and strategy on the enhancement of wellness and support programmes.

Mr Speaker, the well-being of hon. Members is of paramount importance. Most of them leave their families to attend to national issues. The families are robbed of the presence of their mothers and fathers. The Committee is of the view that hon. Members should be given a choice to either stay at the National Assembly Members’ Motel or get an allowance to find alternative accommodation. That would enhance relationships with their families, which are negatively affected by the hon. Members staying at the motel with no family facilities. Further, it would mitigate the risk of contracting sexually transmitted diseases (STDs).

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: From the nieces.

Mr Michelo: Yes, from the nieces and nephews.

Laughter

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, the Committee also noted that the infrastructure, food and other services provided at the National Assembly were of poor quality. The food in particular lacked variety and, therefore, was not healthy for the hon. Members of Parliament. The National Assembly should consider paying an allowance to hon. Members so that they can get their own food. The Committee was also of the view that an allowance needs to be provided for meals during local tours instead of officers carrying imprest. This would assist hon. Members who have dietary needs to access appropriate meals at appropriate times. Hon. Members are responsible enough to manage the finances for meals. The institution can continue paying for accommodation, as per the current practice.

Mr Speaker, the Committee also noted that hon. Members are slowly losing the respect that may be due to them. They are not officially recognised at State functions, but the District Commissioners (DCs), mayors and councillors are recognised. Further, hon. Members do not have drivers or security, thereby, compromising their security. Therefore, there is a need to uplift the office of the Member of Parliament by providing a driver and a security officer.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, the Committee is also recommending that hon. Members of Parliament be provided with some identity for their official cars to avoid being inconvenienced on the road and for recognition.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by addressing the issue of conditions of service for hon. Members. The conditions need to be improved so that hon. Members can focus on their roles as opposed to them focusing on making ends meet. Hon. Members need an extra allowance for constituency expenses, and a regular review of the motor vehicle allowance that replaced the fuel allowance.

Mr Speaker, for the above and many other issues affecting hon. Members of Parliament to be implemented effectively, the Committee recommends the operationalisation of the Parliamentary Service Commission Act, which was enacted. Your Committee believes that this will enhance the operations of the Legislature as an autonomous arm of the Government.

With those few remarks, Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I must give guidance that the report under discussion focused on artificial intelligence (AI), and I know the seconder could have had more to say but, basically, let us zero-in more on that topic.

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, you may proceed.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me this opportunity to debate the Motion on this important report, which comes once in a Meeting. This is one Committee that brings us together regardless of which side of the House we are.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, we agree that the main focus of the report was artificial intelligence (AI), and I must hasten to say that Parliament has done quite well as far as using Information and Communication Technology (ICT) platforms is concerned. I recall that when we, as hon. Members, first came into this august House, during the Vice-President’s Question Time, we would all rise and the Honourable Speaker would start head counting on both sides of the House for who should be given a chance to pose questions. The gadgets you see now, which helped this august House navigate itself through the most difficult time during the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, are an improvement and must be commended. I will not touch so much on that issue.

Mr Speaker, there is bullet No. 7.6 in the report, which the seconder alluded to. I want to thank the mover for the Motion. These things are evolving. We must continue doing something about improving the effectiveness of this institution. The bullet point is on the well-being of hon. Members and staff, which is an important aspect of parliamentary work in ensuring that the organ is effective.

Mr Speaker, in your Committee’s report, there are recommendations on what should be done in line with the National Assembly of Zambia Strategic Plan 2022-2026. The main recommendation is that we need to have a holistic health provision for both hon. Members and members of staff. Before that, there is an aspect of welfare, which is very critical to how hon. Members and members of staff are remunerated. The Committee went for a benchmarking tour to the United Kingdom (UK). Many benchmarking tours have been undertaken. I had the privilege of being part of the Standing Orders Committee once, and we travelled to Ghana and Uganda. The story is the same. Much as this work is a noble duty, it is also a thankless job. We have seen many of our colleagues languishing on the streets because of the way this institution looked after them after serving their people. Currently, hon. Members do not even know how their gratuity is going to be calculated.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: These are things that form part of the conditions of service, Mr Speaker. We must know so that hon. Members can plan. They are sitting and just wondering. Most of them, on both sides of the House, are in debt. So, they need to plan how much they are going to use to sort out the banks and what will remain.

Mr Speaker, another matter has been referred to in the report, which we have been omitting over the years and we will also realise it when we are about to end our term. The term of office of an hon. Member of Parliament is five years. However, over the years hon. Members of Parliament have been paid six months less in terms of gratuity.

Mr Mubika: Imagine!

Mr Kampyongo: It is aligned to the dissolution of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is part of the Standing Orders Committee. When he was a Whip he had nice proposals. We do not want to put him on the spot, but as we are modernising, he needs to, at least, do something that we are going to remember him for, just as he was aggressive as a Whip.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Hon. Minister, as an Hon. Whip, you were very proactive. Do not forget those principles we used to discuss.

Mr Speaker, we need to be paid in full so that we do not go away to wallow in poverty.

Mr Speaker, hon. Colleagues should speak up for what they are supposed to get when they can get it.

Mr Amutike: Yes!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, what remains is for the people to determine whether you will come back or not. Those of us who have been lucky to be here, in the House, more than three times are grateful to the people, but we do not want to go and live in squalor or poverty.

Mr Mubika: Imagine!

Mr Kampyongo: That is how it has been. Mr Speaker, you see people coming back to the National Assembly Members’ Motel.

Hon. Member: Selling fish!

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the other issue is about making a choice of accommodation. Hon. Members stay here, in Lusaka, for three months. They cannot host their families at those one-roomed Members' Motel apartments. Our colleagues in Ghana are given money to choose their accommodation so that they can live with their families. You know how it is and the perception that members of the public have about hon. Members being playful; that they play around. We are supposed to be distinguished men and women. If you are living with your family, it is one way of ensuring that you are a distinguished hon. Member.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Justice is not here, in the House, but we want to deal with the Parliamentary Service Commission. Our members of staff here, at Parliament, put in so much work. I have been a Minister before, and I have worked in the Executive arm of the Government. The level of commitment of our members of staff to work cannot be compared to our colleagues in the ordinary Civil Service.

Mr Samakayi: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, an example I can give you is when our members of staff got 8 per cent salary increments while their colleagues got 12.2 per cent. Why?

Mr Mubika: Imagine!

Hon. PF Member: Why?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, what sort of an arm of the Government are we if we cannot protect ourselves and our own? We want the implementation of the strategic plan to be meaningful. These matters must be tabled. Your workers are stressed. They service you, Hon. Speaker, and us, as hon. Members.

Mr Speaker, lastly, let me talk about the point on handling of allowances. When we come here, to Parliament, we are given allowances to sort ourselves out. Why should it be different when we are on tours? When one is on a foreign tour, why should somebody else keep that person’s money for even buying oneself a Coca-Cola? These are straightforward matters.

Mr Speaker, constituency offices have been given to hon. Members. Let us progress and give the hon. Members places to stay with security provided when they go to the constituencies. That is what they are saying. We have built offices but there is no accommodation for an hon. Member of Parliament. The kilometre allowance that bwana Clerk gives us just ends at the constituency office. Hon. Members tour their constituencies using their own means. When they go to tour constituencies, they are just given fuel which gets them to the constituency office. How are they going to do the work when they have to move back and forth between the constituency and Parliament?

Mr Speaker, as we have been given the motor vehicles, I hope that you are going to make it a hundred percent because it is the vehicle that hon. Members are given to do the work. Give it to the hon. Member of Parliament a hundred percent. It is for the performance of duties. By the time we finish the term, the vehicle would have been as tired as the on. Member of Parliament.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, our hon. Colleagues on the Front Bench are the ones who are like Government trophies.

Even when you go, the Government will buy you a coffin and servicemen and women will come and fire guns, popo, at your funeral service.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: As for ordinary hon. Members of Parliament, you are an ordinary muntu.

Mr Speaker, this attained status is not eulogised, but we need to do something because the work we put in for our citizens is just as important.

More so, Sir, for you, the Deputy Speakers, the conditions for the Speaker are separate

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, this is the only time we can debate ourselves.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, no!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, do not worry. It is not for you. It is for the Office.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, may you resume your seat, hon. Member.

Mr Kampyongo resumed his seat.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are a senior hon. Member. I have observed with tolerance, that you were debating your hon. Friends. At some point, you debated the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, which is not allowed. You went –

Hon. Members: This is the only time we can debate ourselves.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, no, no.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The rules of debate still prevail.

Hon. Members: Ah!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: As much as debates are in camera, we are still in the House and there are rules to follow. So, let us avoid contradicting ourselves. The rules of the House still prevail.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No. You cannot be debating yourselves.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Alright. Yes!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Wait, hon. Members. I will allow it with the exception that you do not include the Chair in your debate.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Whoever will include the Chair will be curtailed.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You may proceed, hon. Member, but do not include the Chair.

Mr Kampyongo: The Chair must appreciate that –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Your time is up.

Mr Kampyongo: No, Mr Speaker. I am looking at the clock.

Mr Speaker, in my conclusion, I know that we all have the potential to sit in that Chair. This is the only time we can exclusively debate ourselves.

Mr Speaker, there is one matter I want to bring out, although I do not want to draw the Hon. Leader of Government Business in the House into my debate. Our welfare has to be inclusive. I am saying this because of the experience I had in the Executive and as a Member of this august House.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The time is in negative. If you have seen the timer, it has zeros. They are in the negative.

Hon. Member: Two minutes!

Mr Kampyongo: The hon. Member has given me two minutes.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: May you resume your seat, hon. Member.

Hon. Member for Chienge, you may proceed.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, this is the day that the Lord has made for us to express ourselves.

Hon. Members: Amen!

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, in Tanzania, Members of Parliament have flags on their vehicles, which help them to pass through traffic even when they are rushing to go somewhere. However, here, in this country, we, as hon. Members, literally have to beg the police. In Kabwe, there is a place after the toll gate called Manyumbi at which one would be in a queue with trucks upon trucks. If, as an hon. Member, one tries to move to the other side to avoid the trucks, other motorists will say that he or she is part of the House that makes the laws and so he or she should just re-join the queue as the way will not be opened up for him or her. As an hon. Member, you will be so embarrassed in that situation because, maybe, you are with other people in the car.

Mr Speaker, today, I want to speak in Bwile English or Tabwa English so that everyone can enjoy listening to what I am saying.

Mr Chala: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, it is high time that hon. Members of Parliament, including future hon. Members, got the respect they deserve from the nation. In Tanzania, hon. Members have flags on their vehicles, that is how you can tell that that one is a hon. Member. They even have bodyguards. In Rwanda and Uganda, hon. Members are also well-respected. When it comes to the vehicles that are given to us, payment for them is deducted from our mid-term gratuity. It is not supposed to be like that. If anything, we are the most poorly paid hon. Members in the southern region of Africa, and yet hon. Members from other parliaments come to this country to learn from us.

Mr Speaker, there was a time I was embarrassed by the way the people I was talking to looked at me when I said that I was a Member of Parliament because they could not see what we call intepe in Bemba. In Uganda, when somebody says that he or she is an hon. Member of Parliament, firstly, that person’s home has a security guard, a policeman, provided for their security. The same thing happens in Kenya. Secondly, when hon. Members are undertaking official tours, just as we do, they have escorts. Somebody mentioned something in this House, I do not know whether it was Hon. Michelo or the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu about the same issue. How can a footballer or the Chipolopolo National team be provided with escorts while hon. Members of Parliament are not? You will hear pipi pipi from a bus carrying the Chipolopolo National team, and you, as an hon. Member, has to give way to the Chipolopolo to go and kick a ball.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: That must come to an end, honestly.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, when a musician comes into the country –

Ulya uwakwata utumwefu utwa white from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), what is his name?

Hon. Members: Koffi Olomide!

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: Koffi Olomide, Mr Speaker, he is provided with escort. We just hear pyenku, pyenku, pyenku on the road, and wonder what is happening.

Mr Speaker, as a Member of Parliament, I have to apply through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation to be allowed to pass through the VIP lounge at the airport. However, for a musician, someone who is coming to dance naked in a Christian nation, it is pyenku, pyenku, pyenku. Many people wonder.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, the police guard and protect musicians from the DRC and South Africa, and we see all the cameras and security on them and it is all pyenku, pyenku, pyenku. However, when we, hon. Members of Parliament, are in transit and using the same airport, we have to introduce ourselves. It should not be like that. On a serious note, the cry of this House is that your hon. Members want to be recognised and respected. We need to be given flags. In fact, that will even help us avoid the accidents that happen during our tours of duty. Your people undertake tours without protection. If there was protection and a flag on the vehicle, people would know that the person coming in that particular vehicle is an hon. Member of Parliament and so they would give way, but it is not like that. We are even insulted by cadres. When cadres are going to the airport, they can even tell an hon. Member to move his or her vehicle off the road.

Mr Speaker, there was a time I was coming from picking up my granddaughter somewhere in Chisamba. It was the only chance I had. So, I decided to go. On the way, I saw the Zambia Correctional Service Commissioner being escorted. His convoy stopped me and the guns were on me. I told them that I was the Member of Parliament for Chienge. They said that they did not care, and I was told not to go near their officers’ motorcade. I went live on Facebook so that Hon. Jack Mwiimbu could see what was happening with his officers. That is wrong. It is important that when we are moving, we are still seen as hon. Members whether Parliament is on recess or not. When we have adjourned sine die and Parliament has been dissolved, then, I do not have the right, but for someone to even point a gun at me when the House is on recess. I even complained to the Prisons Service Commissioner about the incident. It is just wrong. We need to be protected.

Mr Speaker, that is all I wanted to say. My hon. Colleagues have already laboured on the issue of accommodation. That is not even something to imagine.

Mr Speaker, you said that we should not involve you, but I know you have a beautiful bedroom. However, when you come to work, you are given a small room like the ones at the National Assembly Members’ Motel.

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: I know he is Hon. Moyo.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: When you come to work, you are given a small room like that, that has a stench of the dampness, and we expect hon. Members of Parliament to live there, honestly, when they leave their big bedrooms at home. For what? No. I think something must be done. My earnest appeal concerning our accommodation is that when we come to work, we are provided with beds as comfortable as the ones we sleep on at home.

Mr Speaker, in addition, we also need to be protected. Sometimes, we cannot go through the gate when the President is coming to Parliament. One has to introduce himself or herself to the police as an hon. Member of Parliament, and beg to be allowed to pass through the gate before the President arrives. It should not be like that. When such situations happen, our police, the parliamentary security, will be inside while the Zambia Police Service (ZPS) officers are at the gate. It should not be like that.

Mr Speaker, I just hope that these matters are being noted because it is not just a matter of talking. We need the flags, the protection and also the pyenku, pyenku when we are moving.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, my hon. Colleagues have raised many issues. The issue of security is paramount. I think that that cannot be overemphasised. I have been on tour with the Committee I am a member of, and we have encountered many issues that border on the security of your hon. Members. We must not overlook this issue, even in our homes and the places where we reside.

Mr Speaker, a Tanzanian colleague and sister said that our colleagues in Liberia, if not a flag, their vehicles bear a number plate for identification to show that they are Members of the National Assembly. We should have, at least, one official vehicle for which we do not need to explain ourselves because it is identifiable. Most of the times when police officers stop an hon. Member, the Member has to ask if the police officers do not know him or her to which the officers may say that they do not, and so the hon. Member is asked to identify himself or herself. As the previous debater said, in such situations, we are questioned about why we would contravene the law, for example, by violating traffic rules to pass a certain side, yet we are the ones who make the laws. So, we are made to explain that, for example, we are running late for a Sitting, and we need to rush to Parliament. I think there needs to be a form of identification that will help us to, at least, have some dignity and respect even as we move on the road.

Mr Speaker, let me comment on the issue of welfare. In Botswana, our hon. Colleagues have flats at the parliamentary village. Their families are accommodated as well. We can also start from somewhere. We can have a roadmap on how to implement some of these things so that we can give your hon. Members dignity, as it were. As hon. Members of Parliament, we do not have dignity in those small rooms. I even tell my hon. Colleagues that I can suffocate staying in those rooms because they are not habitable. These things are not exaggerated. They are things that your hon. Members are going through. It is, therefore, important that you give them dignity.

Mr. Speaker, let me comment on the constituency office. There is a delink between the main Parliament and the constituency office. If an hon. Member does not have an office, he or she is given a K3,000 to look for accommodation that he or she can use as an office. In my case, just to find something that was habitable, my office was situated next to the shops and bars. On Fridays, I cannot be in the office because it is more or less also a disco. These are some of the things we should look into. What is the commercial value? What amount of money can be given to your hon. Members to rent offices in places that are habitable and where they can conduct their business?

Mr Speaker, some constituency offices do not have furniture. When I became a Member of Parliament, I had to buy my own furniture. The office had no fridge and furniture. We had to put up blocks to stop the desk at the reception from falling apart. So, I had to buy another one. I think I brought that matter to the attention of the National Assembly of Zambia management. We need to improve on some of those things. I thank God that desks were procured later. There was no computer or printer. I had to facilitate some of those things to ensure that the office could run smoothly. So, those are some of the things that we should adequately look into to ensure that hon. Members are taken care of. Otherwise, how do we liaise between the main Parliament and the constituency offices? We also have no Internet.

Mr Speaker, we cannot overemphasise the importance of issues of personal emoluments. For our colleagues in Kenya, every time there are new Members of Parliament, they are given mortgages worth US$300,000, if I am not mistaken. So, Hon. Kampyongo, who has been elected to this House three times, would have US$900,000. It is a mortgage scheme. Our colleagues in Uganda are given money to look for accommodation because one needs to find what is habitable. If Parliament gives me money for accommodation, and I want to live in Roma Park, I will add on money to make that happen because that is what I want and that is what I am used to. Those are some of the main issues that this Parliament needs to look into. It is not only for our sakes, it is also for the people who will come after us. We are not the first or the last ones. So, we are speaking for people who will come after us so that this important office of a Member of Parliament can have dignity and respect. When people desire to become Members of Parliament, they can look at all those issues to ensure that we better their lives.

Mr Speaker, in terms of medical schemes, we have the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) scheme, which only accommodates my spouse and I, the children are not included. What kind of a medical scheme do we have? How then will our families even boast to say that their parent is an hon. Member of Parliament if they cannot even access a medical scheme? My salary, which is K60,000 net, cannot afford a medical scheme for the whole family. When one is paid, he or she makes contributions and services some loans, then, he or she remains with, maybe, K24,000. It does not make sense. That is the plight of your hon. Members of Parliament which you should look into.

Mr Speaker, people have the misconception that hon. Members of Parliament get so much money, and yet the fact is that they are wallowing in poverty. When we get our allowances, we send money. When we get the K24,000 change after some deductions and contributions, we do not even know at which point to start spending it.

Mr Speaker, I think my hon. Colleagues have looked at and mentioned the other issues. These are some of the important issues you need to look into because they border on the morale of your hon. Members of Parliament. We stay here, at Parliament, most of the time and sit in Committee meetings to ensure that we carry out this noble and important function of providing oversight, as an oversight institution.

Mr Speaker, those remarks, coupled with the other issues that my hon. Colleagues have brought to the Floor of this House, are very important in ensuring that your hon. Members are protected as they move on the road and their welfare is looked into critically.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Mr. Speaker, thank you for this opportunity you have given me to add my voice to the debate on the Motion.

Mr Speaker, much has been spoken about the Motion. As you may be aware, I only debate for two minutes or three minutes, then, I am done. I do not want to waste people’s time.

Mr Speaker, I appreciate the fact that technology needs to take precedence in our environment, and due to globalisation, you would want to borrow the technology from the other side of the world to bring it here, to Parliament. My question is: Are we set to receive that technology?

Mr Speaker, I just want to look at one aspect of your report on page No.14, item 3.4.3; Disadvantages of Artificial Intelligence in Parliamentary Work, going through five points. There was a threat of loss of jobs due to tasks being taken over by computer programs or machines. I want to look at what happened previously. There was a time when we were talking about the Automated Teller Machines (ATMs). We all celebrated the fact that having ATMs meant that one could just go pa chibumba, meaning by the wall, press ‘c’, for example, to withdraw money, but little did we realise that it was going to cause misery for our brothers and sisters. We are trying to come up with new ways to perform functions that are handled by our colleagues, the staff, who sit around the House.

Mr Speaker, in the event that we adopt the fully-fledged technology, the question that would arise is: Are we ready to let go of the staff? Can we give them that which would sustain them as they go out? On the issue of robots, I have not reached that stage. Looking at what is happening in developed countries and bringing those ideas to developing countries, in my opinion, that may not sit well. So, as we are looking at these issues, let us look at the welfare of those who will be affected by the introduction of automated machines.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute a few words to the debate on the Motion to adopt this report.

Mr Speaker, the reports come to the Floor of this House every year, but we see little implementation. Just to add on to what Hon. Kampyongo said, I would say that we have seen some changes regarding the way Parliament has been operating. I think that the electronic Chamber (e-Chamber) has made it easier for us, as hon. Members of Parliament, to discharge our duties. While we spend most of the time here, at Parliament, we also have many responsibilities in our constituencies. It is important for Parliament to be flexible. When we are in our constituencies, we must be given leeway to be part of parliamentary proceedings, not the current restrictions whereby for an hon. Member of Parliament to attend the meetings virtually, there are many stringent measures that must be taken. We come from rural constituencies with no network, but we are expected to offer service to your people there. Those are the areas that I think, as the National Assembly, we must look into so that we can serve our people in an efficient manner.

Mr Speaker, in some constituency offices, as my hon. Colleagues have mentioned, in order to access Internet connectivity or printing services, an hon. Member or professional assistant has to go to a business centre to send letters online to, maybe, the ministries or other institutions. I believe that constituency offices must be fully equipped so that we can service our people in an efficient manner. Those are the areas that the National Assembly must focus on.

Mr Speaker, the recently-launched strategic plan has a provision for a staff establishment, which outlines positions for a project manager, driver and other support staff. We hope that the proposed structure can be implemented. In that way, it is going to make our work, as the Members of Parliament, easier.

Mr Speaker, regarding, the conditions of service, indeed, hon. Members of Parliament and the members of staff need to be handsomely remunerated. If the Civil Service operated in the same way that the staff of the National Assembly operate, then, this country would have moved forward. Our members of staff are hardworking. If the Civil Service could emulate the great works that these members of staff put in, I think that our Civil Service, as an engine of the Government, would push many things. They also need to be handsomely remunerated.

Mr Speaker, the Emoluments Commission is a monster. We ratify the appointment of the members of the Emoluments Commission board here, in Parliament. Why should the institution become a stumbling block? Whenever hon. Members of Parliament ask for certain conditions of service, the commission stands in their way. I want to appeal to the hon. Members of this august House to consider moving a Motion proposing that the conditions of service for hon. Members of Parliament should not be subjected to the Emoluments Commission. This matter has to be dealt with decisively because I am aware that there is a lot of discontent among the working class in this country because of the commission, which is also undermining the collective bargaining of trade unions.

Mr Speaker, the other issue is that of medical schemes. We have young hon. Members of Parliament who have young children. Surely, how can an hon. Member and his or her spouse have access to a medical facility, yet their child who is three years old or four years old cannot? For us who are older, our children are old enough to manage and cater for their medical facility needs. My worry is for the young hon. Members of Parliament who still have young children. I think, as Parliament, we must look at such areas.

Mr Speaker, regarding the fuel allowance, we know very well that fuel is quite expensive, and the money that we are given for fuel does not cover the costs needed for us to reach our constituencies. Meanwhile, our people expect hon. Members of Parliament to move from point A to point B to service their needs. So, those are the areas that I think we must seriously look into so that as hon. Members of Parliament leave this august House, they are appreciated for the enormous contributions they have made to this country.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I support this report.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, thank you for permitting me, on behalf of the people of Lumezi, to speak on the debate to adopt this important report.

Mr Speaker, I must mention that I appreciate the mover and I adopt the submissions made by the seconder.

Mr Speaker, this report has laboured to bring artificial intelligence (AI), which is not one of the urgent problems that your hon. Members are faced with, to our attention.

Mr Speaker, you are privileged to be an Honourable Speaker at a time when Parliament is accommodating the likes of Hon. Mabeta, Hon. B. Mpundu and myself. Can you imagine a situation in which I bring my wife to a room at the National Assembly Members’ Motel, and there is noise coming from upstairs? In addition, a K24,000 is being deducted from my earnings. The energy that these young parliamentarians have brought to the Members’ Motel is alarming.

Hon. Member: Question!

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, you have hon. Members who are trading with “imports” and “exports” and spending K24,000 on accommodation at the Members’ Motel whereas you can give them that money to look for houses at which they would not raise their neighbours’ suspicions. If my wife knows Hon. B. Mpundu’s wife, after hearing noises upstairs, she would ask who was in Hon. B. Mpundu’s room because the noise that we would have heard would be so unusual. You are destroying homes with that Motel. We must do away with it.

Mr Speaker, Article No. 82 of the Republican Constitution talks about the term of Parliament being five years. However, Parliament is dissolved three months before the lapse of the term, and your hon. Members are not paid for those three months. I wish and hope that the man in charge of the purse is listening attentively. Three months’ worth of dues are not paid to your hon. Members. I do not know whether the support staff here, at Parliament, are affected by that decision.

Mr Speaker, when I take my daughter to Coptic Hospital, I am told that she is not part of my medical scheme. How is that the case?

Mr Speaker, there are about five big buyers for your entertainment centre in this House. Your hon. Members owe about K90,000 or K100,000. They cannot get their allowances because they are paying off the service fees. We allocate huge amounts for other people, but we are shy to say that we need an increment. We must reach a point at which we fail to pass the Budget this September if our interests are not taken care of.

Mr Speaker, you can imagine that we do not want to take this Office to court. I can confirm that about twenty hon. Members in this House do not utilise the National Assembly Members’ Motel, Crossroads Lodge or any other facility that you have given them. However, Parliament is illegally obtaining K24,000 for accommodation from those hon. Members of Parliament. If hon. Members of Parliament whose families stay outside Lusaka brought them for a visit, especially during the period when the kids will be on school holiday, they would need to look for accommodation elsewhere. So, what is the essence of paying K24,000 to the National Assembly, yet people have to look for accommodation elsewhere when their families visit?

Mr Speaker, we must remember you as the man who changed the welfare of his hon. Members.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munir Zulu: This should be done.

Mr Speaker, I am looking at the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. If he can find the money to sort out the drought situation, I do not see it as a challenge for him to find resources to advance the interests of his fellow hon. Members in this House.

Mr Speaker, history has shown that most of the hon. Members –

An hon. Member interjected.

Mr Munir Zulu: No, he is not. I trust him on this one.

Mr Speaker, history has shown that most hon. Members who have served this country through this House have ended up destitute. The late Mr Newstead Zimba’s situation was so sad that the Honourable Speakers in his time had to put him on a free lunch and dinner arrangement here, at Parliament, but still, he could not afford transport to come for that free lunch and dinner. He was in that situation even after serving this country diligently.

Mr Speaker, this report should be taken back to your Committee to address the urgent needs of your hon. Members and support staff. AI is not one of our immediate problems.

Hon. Members: No!

Mr Munir Zulu: It is not.

Mr Speaker, you can even pay for AI on the Google Play Store. It is only US$49, and you would have all your questions answered too by the feature. However, you will cause many divorces with the problems we are grappling with at the Motel. The rooms are too small and there is a lot of noise.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, the only advantage you have is that the female hon. Members are not part of that problem. The problem is mostly with your male hon. Members.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I hope, you can consider the submissions made by the hon. Member for Lumezi.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker gave the Floor to Hon. Mutale but he was not in the Assembly Chamber.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The microphone indication light is on.

Hon. Member for Kalabo Central, you may proceed.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, my first statement is that do unto others as you would want them to do unto you. We are human beings. There is a word, artificial insemi –

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, artificial intelligence (AI) has been tabled as a possible tool that can be used to effectively enhance the work of hon. Members. I was elected to this House in September 2011. I have learnt that amongst the three roles of this House, as per the Constitution, there is one that is added. It is not in the Constitution. Hon. Members have to undertake that role. What is that fourth role?

Interruptions

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the fourth role is that hon. Members have to create development. They have to be part of the households in their constituencies. That is why there are certain things I have stopped doing. On Google, I searched for the definition of the word “gratuity”. The definition specified that it is an amount of money that the employer gives the employee at the end of a specified period. In the Longman Dictionary, that period is stated to be five years, which is equivalent to the five-year tenure for hon. Members.

Mr Speaker, you have heard that hon. Members have loans. What are the loans for? If you trace the flow of the loans, you will find that they are not for serving the households of hon. Members. The loans that we obtain and have to repay are for servicing the constituency. People do not know that we get loans to service constituencies. We receive phone calls as early as 0400 hours. Even now, if you check my phone, you will see that there is a number that has called almost ten times already. That call is from someone asking for money to buy mealie meal. I have to buy mealie meal for other people using my own money. I am here, in Lusaka, but I have to provide transport to take corpses from the mortuary to the graveyard in my constituency.

Interruptions

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, we have to transport bodies from the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) mortuary to the constituency for burial. However, look at the money that hon. Members of Parliament receive. We are a transit. Hon. Member of Parliament are pipes. In those pipes, money must flow. When we are here, in the House, we see hon. Members of Parliament, but whatever money they receive reaches the constituencies within twenty-four hours of receipt. I was chatting with the Hon. Deputy Government Chief Whip. He came to greet me in my room at the National Assembly Members’ Motel. What I always do is that immediately after bathing, I rush out of the room because, as others have described, the flow of air in the rooms at the Motel is limited. The room becomes humid because of the moisture from the bathroom. So, after bathing I have to rush outside.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: Maybe, people have not realised why I always take my phone calls outside in the morning. The reason is that the room becomes humid because of the moisture from the bathroom. I have to go outside where there is enough airflow.

Mrs Kasanda: Do you get dressed?

Mr Miyutu: Yes. I go outside dressed up.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: You thought that I forget to dress up?

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: What was I talking about (turning to Hon. Sialubalo)?

Hon. Members: Humidity!

Mr Miyutu: No. That is just something that came in.

Hon. UPND Member: Humidity in the room!

Interruptions

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I wanted to say that those who are mandated do not feel our pain. The problem is that we are human beings and there is this human weakness. You cannot transfer your pain or condition to another person. No wonder doctors can treat us because they cannot feel the pain that we feel. When you are serving other human beings, it is not easy to feel the way that they do. When you see us standing here, on the Floor of the House, pleading for the monies to be increased, it is because every Friday, hon. Members of Parliament are required to be in their constituencies. Do we ask ourselves how they reach those places? Further, we have to find ourselves back here. Look at the cost of fuel. It is about 900 km from Lusaka to Kalabo, for example. Hon. Members have to go into the constituency to visit the wards.

Mr Speaker, the current drought situation has caused hunger. So, we are required to go deep into the constituencies to check on our people. Under whose funding? The only person who suffers in this country is an hon. Member of Parliament. A District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) will visit schools using funding for his ministry, the Director of Health will visit clinics using funding, and any other worker will undertake work visitations using funding. However, the hon. Member of Parliament goes with his or her funding. One has to touch one’s pockets to visit the constituency wards. That is why we are requesting for a bit of enhancement to enable hon. Members to serve the people in the constituencies well.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I will be brief in my debate on this important topic. I speak from a point of view of exposure; I have a locus standi having been exposed to a number of Parliaments around Africa and elsewhere. Artificial intelligence (AI) is important but, as the other debaters have said, we are jumping the gun. Before we can paint our house, we first need to install the windows, carpet and seats, then, we can think about putting up a wireless fidelity (WIFI) network and Plasma Television (TV). So, what we are talking about is like putting up the Plasma TV, yet we have no windows and doors. I want to draw our attention to the visits I have taken with one of the House Committees to Kenya. Whilst there, my mind got to experience many things. In Bemba they say, umwana ushenda atasha nina ukwipika, meaning that if you do not move around, you may think that what you have is the best. I used to think that this Parliament was the best until I travelled to Kenya a few months ago under the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services. Just the environment is nice. At that Parliament, hon. Members stopped sitting on benches like the ones in this House. Every chair is like a pilot’s chair. The chairs are electronic and every Member of Parliament has their own. When one sits on the chair, it electronically detects that someone is seated on it. When one leaves the Assembly Chamber, the House system will detect that one has left. AI has already been integrated. The House system is not like ours which requires one has to log in. We have visited both the Lower House and the Upper House of the Kenyan Parliament, and the infrastructure is well-developed.

Mr Speaker, if we should change things, we should start with the environment. We should find out from Kenya which contractor worked on its Parliament so that we can bring that contractor in. That would make a difference. The size does not matter, this one is big enough. The Parliament of Uganda is half this size. We have 250 hon. Members of Parliament or more, while the Ugandan Parliament has like 500 Members of Parliament and somehow, they are accommodated in the Assembly Chamber. Some hon. Members of Parliament attend sittings from home or their cars, and only come into the House if they have a presentation to make.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: We are 167 hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Sampa: Thank you, Mr Speaker. That is what happens when one attends parliamentary sittings in South Africa and elsewhere.

Mr Speaker, with that aspect of the environment explained, I want to move on to the bigger point in my presentation. I will be winding up my debate soon. Just from the point on the environment, we should pick it from Kenya and use the contractor that they used to change our environment so that we can detect ourselves in the House and look honourable. The design of this House is from the United National Independent (UNIP) and Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) eras. Times have changed. We need seats that will detect our presence in the House.

Mr Speaker, the Kenyan hon. Members of Parliament's conditions of service are the best in Africa. I am glad my uncle, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, is in the House. He is the man seating on the Treasury. Whatever we get, as hon. Members, is ten times less than what hon. Members of Parliament get in Kenya. I am found with some Kenyan colleagues at the Pan-African Parliament (PAP) meetings.

Mr Speaker, to my hon. Colleagues in the Executive, I am not being judgmental. The issue goes back to the previous Government as well. It has been debated in this House time and again. When hon. Members and hon. Ministers are paid what is due to them, indirectly, you also cure corruption. No corruption issue has been cited in the implementation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), God forbid, and it should not.

Interruptions

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, in Matero, there has not been a case of corruption related to the CDF.

Mr Speaker, when you pay what is due to the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero; the current as well as the future ones, you will be guaranteed that the chances of them being tempted into corrupt activities will almost be nil.

Mr Speaker, before we implement AI for our House, we need to work on the dues for hon. Members of Parliament. Democracy is expensive. The excuse that there is no money, which we heard twenty years ago, cannot stand. No Government is ever broke. There is always money to find somewhere.

Mr Speaker, the last point is on the National Assembly Members’ Motel. My hon. Colleague from Lumezi touched on that point. While in Kenya, as the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services, which Hon. Mabeta and others belong to, we noted that there was going to be the launch of a hotel for Members of Parliament. The way this Parliament has plenty of grounds space just adjacent to the Kenneth Kaunda International Conference Wing, in Kenya they have constructed a twenty-storey building. The way the design in Kenya is set up, hon. Members will be able to move from this Parliament, for example, through an underground passage to enter the hotel on the other side of the grounds. In the new Kenyan Parliament Members’ Hotel, each Member of Parliament has a suite; a hotel room and an office with a secretary. Those are standards that we should aspire to not AI.

Madam Chair –

Hon. Members: Mr Speaker!

Laughter

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker.

Apologies, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, before this report is adopted and we prioritise AI, I would like to say that we are jumping the gun. Let us look at the primary issues that this House and hon. Members are facing, as highlighted by the other debaters and myself.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, I also want to be on record as having given my comments on the Motion to adopt the report of your Committee on Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation.

Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I will give similar sentiments on what has already been stated. I am quoting what has been stated by your Committee’s report on page No. 36, bullet No. 7.6; the wellbeing of Members of Parliament. Interestingly, throughout the year this is the only opportunity we have, as hon. Members, to discuss ourselves. The design of this segment is such that for the first time, we are expected to debate without being curtailed or treated as second-class citizens.

Mr Speaker, a demotivated hon. Member of Parliament, just like a demotivated worker, cannot perform effectively, which is why most hon. Members continue to lament over the need for continuous motivation for them. It has become a proven fact that when hon. Members leave Parliament, they become destitute. We have laughed at several former hon. Members of Parliament who have literally become beggars because we have not thought about their lives after Parliament. Truth be told, when hon. Members leave the service of the House, there will possibly be nobody to employ them. They have to start fending for themselves. Remember that when hon. Members are representing the people in this House, the businesses of three-quarters of those who run businesses suffer. It is difficult to rejuvenate such businesses.

Mr Speaker, my hon. Colleagues and I travelled out to Itezhi-Tezhi over the weekend. As the hon. Member for Matero has mentioned, in other Parliaments, they are building infrastructure like hotels for hon. Members, but it looks like our biggest constraint is resources, which is why we keep living in that ramshackle of a motel, a filthy environment, as many have stated because we cannot build better facilities. That is why others have to be accommodated in other substandard accommodation facilities, yet we can invest in such infrastructure.

Mr Speaker, I want to make a proposition to my colleagues, hon. Members of Parliament. We are over 160 hon. Members of Parliament, and the little gratuity that we get is close to a million Kwacha or slightly above. Can you imagine if we all decided to think about the future and put that money together to invest in infrastructure like a hotel or a better facility than that motel? We would have K160 million to invest in a project that would allow us to live comfortable lives after leaving service. That thought came up because what we have at the moment does not permit us to have decent accommodation and a better life after we leave service. It calls for us to start thinking outside the box. This conversation is not a battle between the left and the right side, that is why I am imploring all hon. Colleagues to start thinking for themselves. If we expect somebody to look after –

Mr Speaker, insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results. How long have we been having this conversation? How many times have we undertaken benchmarking tours? What are the results? Nothing. The people we go to for benchmarking are the people who came to copy the ideas from this country. If we expect that after lamenting things are going to change, they will not change. We will keep living in those ramshackles. We will keep eating that food that is cooked as if it is for chickens or goats. The time has come to start thinking for ourselves.

Mr Speaker, mid-term gratuity is coming, and we can all get, at least, a guaranteed K1 million. I want to implore and emphasise to hon. Colleagues that if we think together, and we all put up that money, we can approach management with a proposition to build alternative accommodation for ourselves, which we would run. We will be getting paid every month. If hon. Members get that K1 million and invest it in their little businesses, I can guarantee them that whatever they might be getting would not be anywhere close to what we can get if we put our minds together.

Mr Speaker, in terms of welfare, I have never thought that people could come up with a medical scheme that only prioritises a wife and husband. How? We have a medical scheme at Parliament that only considers hon. Members and their spouses. Nga abana? What about our children?

Mr Michelo: You also want to include the nieces?

Laughter

Mr B. Mpundu: In fact, we need to include the nieces because they are dependent on us.

Mr Speaker, the money we get from Parliament ends up being dished out at funerals. When one’s children fall sick, where does one get the money to take his or her children to the hospital? Who thought of this scheme? Sometimes, I think that people suspend thinking because they cannot think of such a situation in which a medical scheme is just created for a husband and wife. The most important part of the family bana, the children. You must take care of the children first.

Mr Speaker, the welfare of parliamentarians is critical. People are proud to drive pajeros, land cruisers and so on. However, after five years, the vehicles given to us become nothing. They are wrecks considering where some of our friends come from. Some of us go to the constituencies every other weekend. After five years, that vehicle becomes a wreck. Honestly speaking, can the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning not give a token to hon. Members without having to deduct anything from their earnings because those vehicles become wrecked after five years. It is a proven fact.

Mr Speaker, as I have already stated, we have these lamentations over and over. We have become insane because we expect different results by having the same conversation.

Mr Speaker, I think time has run out. Many things have already been said.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I will use my discretion to allow the mover three minutes to wind up debate.

Ms Nakaponda: Mr Speaker, may I express my gratitude to all the hon. Members who debated the Motion. I acknowledge the need for caution in adopting AI and also the need to improve the conditions of service for hon. Members of Parliament and staff.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

______

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1859 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 26^th July, 2024.

___________

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