Thursday, 27^th June, 2024

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

STUDENTS FROM UNIVERSITY OF ZAMBIA SCHOOL OF NURSING SCIENCES

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of students from the University of Zambia (UNZA) School of Nursing Science in Lusaka District.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors in our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

PRESENCE OF PUPILS AND TEACHERS FROM MCM MUFULIRA, MUFULIRA

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to recognise the presence in the Public Gallery of pupils and teachers from MCM Mufulira School, Mufulira District, Kantanshi Constituency.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I warmly welcome our visitors in our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Order No. 26(1) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2024, be suspended to enable the House to witness the Address by His Excellency Mr Filipe Jacinto Nyusi, President of the Republic of Mozambique, on Friday, 28^thJune, 2024.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice- President: Madam Speaker, as the House is aware, His Excellency Mr Filipe Jacinto Nyusi, President of the Republic of Mozambique, will address the House on Friday, 28^thJune, 2024. Standing Order No. 26(1) provides for the Suspension of business at 1040 hours. It is, therefore, necessary to suspend that Standing Order to accommodate His Excellency Mr Filipe Jacinto Nyusi, President of the Republic of Mozambique’s address to the House without any interruption.

Madam, this is a procedural and non-controversial Motion. Therefore, I urge all hon. Members to support it.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank all the hon. Members for silently supporting this Motion, as we welcome the President tomorrow, 28^th June, 2024.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to.

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URGENT MATTERS WITHOUT NOTICE

MS NYIRENDA, HON. MEMBER FOR LUNDAZI, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON NEED TO ASSIST FAMILIES OF PEOPLE WHO WERE INJURED IN THE ROAD ACCIDENT IN LUNDAZI

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, this morning, we lost ten people in a terrible accident in Lundazi. Thirty people are admitted in hospital and are in a critical condition. The accident happened around 0300 hours this morning. Right now, families are mourning. The situation in my constituency is sad. On behalf of the people for Lundazi, I request the Office of the Vice-President, through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), to assist the people of Lundazi during this period of mourning. 

Madam Speaker, I have always stated to the hon. Minister of Health that we have only one medical doctor at Lundazi District Hospital –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Each hon. Member should only raise one Urgent Matter without Notice. You are attempting to raise two.

Ms Nyirenda: Madam Speaker, no. I was trying to request the hon. Minister to send some doctors to assist those who were injured in the same accident.

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much, hon. Member for Lundazi, for being a mother and a caring hon. Member of Parliament for your constituency. You did not need to wait until now, at 1439 hours, to address the issue when the accident happened last night. You know that Her Honour the Vice-President’s office is available every time. Had you approached the hon. Minister of Health, you could have been assisted. So, I urge you to engage the Office of the Vice-President and the Ministry of Health so that they come to the aid of the people who are in need.

This matter does not qualify to be raised as an Urgent Matter without Notice. It can be addressed through engaging the Ministry of Health. I encourage hon. Members to engage hon. Ministers. I am sure, they are available and they will assist. When you encounter problems, why do you not state them? If you come to my office, we can have a chat and I can see how I can help you to overcome whatever challenges you are having. So, please, engage Her Honour the Vice-President. She is even here right now. You can take a walk, have a chat, and see how best you can have those people assisted.

So, we make progress.

MR MUBIKA, HON. MEMBER FOR SHANGOMBO, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON ELEPHANT ATTACKS IN SHANGOMBO

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Madam Speaker, my Urgent Matter without Notice is directed at the hon. Minister of Tourism, but since he is not in the House, it is directed to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, last year around November, a Grade 4 girl was attacked by an elephant, and her arm and leg were broken. Again, last month, a woman and her child were killed. Today in the morning, a woman was killed by an elephant. I have been engaging the hon. Minister, but there has been no action. I have also been engaging the Director-General of the Department of National Parks and Wildlife (DNPW) and the rangers in Sioma every day, but there has been no action. However, they are quick to act when they hear a rumour that somebody has been seen with game meat. They have the fuel to go and arrest that person.

Madam Speaker, this issue has been coming up on the Floor of the House from many hon. Members of Parliament, such as the hon. Member for Chama North, the hon. Member for Chama South, my neighbour here indicated and the hon. Member for Sikongo. At the moment, about five wards in Shangombo are affected. The elephants razed two villages. Some people are camping at newly-built schools that were financed through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Madam Speaker, I want to clear my name because the people in Shangombo think that I am not doing anything about the matter.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubika: I want my name to be cleared. I have been reporting the matter to the Government, but the Government has not acted on it. People are losing lives.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

I think that on Tuesday, the hon. Acting Minister of Tourism came to the Floor of the House to discuss a matter or to deliver a statement on a matter that was raised by the hon. Member for Mpika or another constituency –

Mr Kapyanga: Mpika!

Madam Speaker: Mpika.

That problem is ongoing. I think that we have had four or five ministerial statements on the same matter. Last time, when a ministerial statement was rendered, I urged all of us to work together and see how we can overcome the problem. Delivering ministerial statements here seems not to have yielded any result.

I see people in Zimbabwe and in Chobe National Park in Botswana jogging and walking while animals such as elephants and rhinos graze together. So, what is it that we, Zambians, are doing, which is making the animals attack us or react like that? There must be something we are doing. Let us learn to live together with animals. I urge the hon. Minister of Tourism to learn from the neighbouring countries how people are living in harmony with animals. Considering the video clips that I have seen, sometimes, we attack elephants. We make noise and hit them. We also throw stones at them. We do all sorts of things. I think that the problem needs a concerted effort. Through the Ministry of Tourism, please, let us see how best we can resolve the matter. We cannot get rid of animals or human beings. So, we have to learn to live with each other peacefully.

Maybe, let me throw the ball to the hon. Minister of Tourism. For the avoidance of doubt, and for the benefit of the people of Zambia, the hon. Members have been coming to the Floor of the House and raising the same issue of the animal-human conflict. However, it looks as if finding a solution is a mountain to climb. So, do not castigate the hon. Members for Shangombo, Mpika, Nyimba, Mfuwe, Nalolo, Sioma and several other constituencies. Even Luena, where we hardly saw lions, now has lions. So, we need to do more about the matter. The hon. Acting Minister of Tourism, please, when the substantive hon. Minister comes to the House, urge him to do more so that we start seeing results.

Eng. Nzovu indicated assent.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much.

I am sure, the people of Shangombo have heard that their hon. Member of Parliament has presented their concerns.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: He wants to come back in 2026.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: We make progress.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF THE MICHAEL CHILUFYA SATA SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH

376. Mr Kapyanga (Mpika) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development: 

1. when construction of the Michael Chilufya Sata School of Public Health in Mpika District will commence;

1. when the tenderprocess for the project will commence; and 

1. what the estimated cost of the project is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the construction of the Michael Chilufya Sata School of Public Health will commence when resources are available.

Interjections

Eng. Milupi: I did not say that last year.

Madam Speaker, the procurement process for the project will commence as soon as resources are available. The total estimated cost of the project will be known once the designs are completed and the contract is procured.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development for his apt response.

Madam Speaker, the Michael Chilufya Sata School of Public Health was established way back, but it is still renting a building in Chilonga owned by a church. The school is a grant-aided institution, and it receives only about K74,000 monthly. It has to pay K40,000 for rent from that amount.

Madam Speaker, when the school advertises for enrolment, it gets over 1,500 applications because it is the only school offering public health courses in the area. Applicants come from Muchinga Province, the Northern Province and part of Luapula Province. If the school had bigger infrastructure, it would absorb many youths and cut the cost of education. Instead of our youths coming to Lusaka or going to the Copperbelt to study, they would go to Mpika. Therefore, I want to know when the resources will be available for that very important school.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the concern. Let me assure him that the Government has noted the absence of the School of Public Health at Michael Chilufya Sata Hospital, especially considering that the hospital has been upgraded to a general hospital. Under the Infrastructure Operational Plan for 2024 and 2025, Muchinga Provincial Health Office plans to construct a school of nursing at the hospital. That will be done when resources are made available.

Madam Speaker, as I said in my initial response, at the moment, the Government is constrained by limited resources due to the dire debt situation that the country is in. Therefore, new infrastructure projects will only be undertaken once the Government’s fiscal position improves, and the numerous stalled projects across the country are completed and operationalised. When that happens, the Government will have the space to take on new projects. I heard what the hon. Member said about the school renting premises at a phenomenal cost and that had the school been fully operational, more youths would find respite from studying at the institution.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B.Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, the response “when funds will be made available,” has religiously been sung since I came to Parliament. I would like to believe that it is not inavailability of funds, but priorities. The hon. Minister is aware that his counterpart, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, has directed constituencies to spend over US$100,000 to buy ambulances. Does the hon. Minister not think that it would be more prudent to spend that amount on construction of that school? This is the third year since the directive was given. So, US$300,000 or more from the CDF would have gone a long way in addressing the infrastructure needs in Mpika. Does the hon. Minister not think that it is appropriate for him to liaise with his colleague, the hon. Minister of Local Govenrment and Rural Development, on correct spending of the CDF? Instead of buying vehicles that overturn every day, we could spend some money from the CDF on a need like that. It is not prudent for a Government institution to be squatting or spending K40,000 on rent.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member’s interventions should not be directed at the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. He talked about setting priorities and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development’s directive to the councils to spend US$100,000 on ambulances from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Councils do not need directives from the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development on the application of the CDF. If the district council in Mpika takes the establishment of the Michael Chilufya Sata School of Public Health as a priority, surely, it does not need to come to the august House. It can include the plan to apply the CDF to that project and then the money will be spent. When I am asked questions on the Floor, I try to direct hon. Members of the House to use the CDF. I am aware that there are other routes they can take. If they wish to apply the CDF to certain projects, they do not need hon. Ministers to give them directives. So, I agree with the hon. Minister – Sorry to use the term “hon. Minister” to address the hon. Member for Nkana Constituency because I do not see that happening in the near term.

Mr B. Mpundu: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: The hon. Member for Mpika Constituency can engage with his Ward Development Committees (WDCs). There are three constituencies in Mpika. If they feel that the school is a priority, they can come together and make contributions from their allocations to construct the facility.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the Provincial Administration has included the Michael Chilufya Sata School of Public Health in the 2024 Infrastructure Work Plan. Is the hon. Minister able to advise when the construction of the facility will begin?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I mentioned that it was included in the 2024 infrastructure plan, and that construction will begin when resources are made available. However, one route to take regarding getting the resources is the suggestion that came from the hon. Member for Nkana, which is to use the CDF.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Simumba (Nakonde): Madam Speaker, since the House will be approving the National Budget for 2024/2025 very soon, is the hon. Minister planning to budget for this very important infrastructure?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I do not know what the hon. Member meant by the 2024/2025 Budget. The country’s Budget year is aligned with the calendar year. If he is talking about the 2024 re-aligned Budget, I think, that Budget is meant to address some of the issues that the country has experienced, which were occasioned by a severe drought. The drought has caused a shortage of electricity and food. I think that those are the main issues that the re-aligned Budget seeks to address. There is also a need to now start servicing the debt, since it was re-scheduled. That is what is in the re-aligned Budget.

Madam Speaker, with respect to the 2025 Budget, the hon. Members for Nakonde and Mpika are free to engage with the relevant ministries to lobby for the inclusion of the project or any other project that needs to be worked on in the Budget. Depending on the availability of resources, it may or may not be included.     

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, before I pose my question, I would like to join you as well as the other hon. Members of Parliament in welcoming our children from Kantanshi. The school that you mentioned is the one I went to from reception to Grade 7. So, I am very proud because of their visit. 

Madam Speaker, when the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika was asking the question, something that came to my mind, which I thought would be part of the hon. Minister’s answer, was that Ronald Ross General Hospital also needed to have a school of public health. There has been interest from the private sector in Kabwe to create a school of public health. Some schools have a capacity of about seventy people or eighty people, but you find that 1,000 people apply and pay a non-refundable fee of K150 or K200. One wonders where that money goes to because majority of the applicants are not selected by those schools. When is the hon. Minister going to speed up private sector involvement to expand training institutions in public health? For the past one year, an application by Kabwe School of Nursing to construct a school of public health using a public-private partnership (PPP) model has been lying around, yet the hon. Minister has said that the Michael Chilufya Sata School of Public Health in Mpika will be constructed once funds are available. When is he going to speed up private sector participation in that area?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kantanshi for raising this follow-up question. I think that it is appropriate that when the hon. Member has visitors, his voice is heard.

Laughter

Mr Mumba: Hear, hear!

Eng. Milupi: He made a very good suggestion. Let me inform him and the House that concerning Kabwe School of Nursing, we have already been approached by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwe Central. She is over there (Pointed at Hon. Halwiindi). She has been soliciting for a public-private partnership (PPP) for that institution. She has gone further to identify those who may want to put in an unsolicited bid. We welcome unsolicited bids. We will also welcome Members of Parliament when they come with proposals and present them to us. Then we shall advise them on the various routes through which those bids can be processed. I hope that we can work on the issue of Kabwe School of Nursing. If the hon. Member for Kantanshi thinks that there should be a school of public health at Ronald Ross General Hospital, the same route can be taken. He should come to speak to us, and we shall advise on how that can be started. The same is applicable to the Michael Chilufya Sata School of Public Health. The overriding factor as to whether a PPP is appropriate or not is the number of users of the facility that a private investor can develop.

Madam Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that we could use the CDF to construct the school. He also said that Mpika has three constituencies. Let me put it on record that Mpika is one district and one constituency today. I appreciate the enhanced CDF. However, the construction of a fully-fledged college cannot cost less than K100 million. It is not possible. Even if it could cost K33 million, the entire CDF cannot be committed to one project. Only 40 per cent can be committed to infrastructure projects. Then the remaining 60 per cent has to be spent on priorities dictated by the President. In 2023 and 2024, Mpika remained with K4.8 million from the CDF, which was used on projects that were submitted by communities. The other amount went to projects that the President wanted to be implemented in communities. May I remind the hon. Ministers who like to refer us to the CDF that even the CDF has constraints.

Madam Speaker, our country has co-operating partners, such as Japan International Co-operation Agency (JICA). However, they cannot listen to a Member of Parliament but to a ministry. Would the hon. Minister engage a co-operating partner to construct the Michael Chilufya Sata School of Public Health?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, sometimes, I refer back. When I was in Parliament, there used to be three districts or constituencies, but he is right to correct me that there is one district now.

Mr B. Mpundu: Kanchibiya!

Eng. Milupi: Yes. Kanchibiya, Mfuwe and Mpika, itself, were one district, but they are different districts now. The suggestion to use the CDF did not come from me; it came from his neighbour (pointed at Mr B. Mpundu). They sit next to each other. I do not know whether they talk or not. So, the hon. Member is right. If the infrastructure costs that sort of money, then, the CDF is not appropriate for it. That is why, in my first response and the follow-up one, I did not mention the CDF.

Madam Speaker, let me say something on co-operating partners. Yes, we do engage with them, and yes, it is not possible for Members of Parliament to initiate and conclude discussions with co-operating partners. That is why we require the co-operation of the whole House when it comes to matters that require us to work together. In matters of security, there should be no Opposition and no Ruling Party. In matters of international co-operation like the one he suggested, there should be no Opposition and no Ruling Party. However, all too often, we see that even in matters of international relations, certain hon. Members of the Opposition take positions that disadvantage the country. When that happens, it becomes difficult to properly engage with international partners for matters such as this. If we work as one team, it will be possible to get as much help as we can from our co-operating partners for issues such as the ones raised here.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister said that the tender process will commence when the designs are ready. Who is designing the school? Is it a private architect or architects from the ministry?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, let me repeat what I said with respect to the designs: The total estimated cost of the school of public health will be known once the designs are completed and the contractor is procured. The designs, what the school will look like, are made by the Government.

Hon. Member: Government?

Eng. Milupi: Yes, the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ). Boma.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr A. I. Banda (Vubwi): Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister said that most of the new projects will start only when the old projects dotted across the country are completed. For example, a boarding school that was being constructed in Vubwi is an old project. When are the old projects going to be completed?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think that his follow-up question relates to schools in general. The question on the Floor is about the Michael Chilufya School of Public Health. If he wants an answer on other schools like many people here do, maybe, a separate question will suffice.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Vubwi, you are advised to file in another question if you want that matter to be addressed.

We make progress.

INTRODUCTION OF GRANTS TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS

377. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Education: 

1. what the benefits and challenges of the introduction of grants to public schools are; and

1. what measures are being taken to mitigate the challenges.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, the introduction of grants to public schools has had several benefits and fewer challenges. The House may wish to note that grants to public schools were enhanced by as much as 200 per cent in 2022, when the Government introduced free education from early childhood right up to the secondary school sub-sector. Grants were meant to compensate schools for the loss of revenue following the abolition of Parent-Teacher Association (PTA) fees and other payments that parents used to make, such as examination fees. The school grants are now dispensed to the bank accounts of respective schools electronically and equitably, and in conformity with the school guidelines for utilising grants.

Madam Speaker, the main benefits of introducing grants to public schools are two-fold. From the Government’s point of view, the benefits are as follows:

1. grants provide the much-needed financial support to public schools as they implement the Education for All (EFA) policy, helping them to fund important initiatives, such as maintenance of infrastructure, improvement of school management, provision of teaching and learning materials, teacher and learner support programmes and extracurricular programmes. That ultimately ensures inclusive and equitable quality education provision, resulting in enhanced learning outcomes;

1. grants promote life-long learning opportunities for all and enable public schools to offer students a broader range of educational opportunities, such as specialised programmes, two-tier pathways, particularly vocational skills development and extracurricular activities, which have enriched the learning experience among learners. The wide range of learning experiences creates an enabling learning environment, making children believe that there is always something for them to attain in school;

1. grants have been targeted to support students from disadvantaged backgrounds –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mitete, please, tone down. I can hear whatever you are saying from here.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, grants have been targeted to support students from disadvantaged backgrounds, providing resources to help close the achievement gap and ensure that all learners have access to high-quality education and skills development. For instance, the grants under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) support over 80 per cent of orphans and vulnerable children in accessing secondary boarding school. In addition, there are other special grants for orphans and vulnerable children; and grants encourage innovation and creativity in public schools by providing funding for new teaching methods, curriculum development and implementation, educational research, promotion of innovation, engineering and entrepreneurship, and acceleration of science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) subjects. There has been growth in areas such as the Junior Engineers Technicians and Scientists (JETS) programme, which has become a prestigious and high-profile event in the Zambian school calendar. In addition, competitions in various fields among learners have been implemented which put together, have led to improved student outcomes.

Madam Speaker, for clients, pupils, parents and the community, the following are the benefits:

1. increased disposable income for parents and guardians, as grants have provided economic empowerment to them. They use the resources that they would have used for school fees elsewhere;

1. pupils benefit from funding, as money allocated to their institutions enables the provision of facilities and more curriculum options, which create a conducive teaching and learning environment for learners to achieve better outcomes, including higher test scores, increased graduation rates and other improved indicators of student achievement;

1. funding to schools creates business with a skilled and trained workforce that fosters networking opportunities and enhances partnerships. In addition, community benefits include, but are not limited to, the following;

1. creation of employment for local communities, as schools pay wages that are crucial for economic growth and social stability;

1. the burden of paying for school fees has been taken over by the Government, creating additional disposable income for other needs for parents; and

1. schools give community members business opportunities to supply them with various school requisites.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note and appreciate that public education is a worthwhile investment for the Government, with immense social and economic benefits not only to the learners, but also to the communities. Research shows that individuals who graduate and have access to quality education throughout primary and secondary are more likely to find gainful employment, have stable families and be active and proactive citizens. They are also less likely to commit serious crimes, place high demands on the public healthcare system or be enrolled in welfare assistance programmes, for instance, the Social Cash Transfer. A good education provides substantial benefits to individuals, and individual benefits are aggregated throughout a community, creating both social and economic benefits. Investing in public education is, thus, far more cost-effective for the Government than paying for the social and economic consequences of under-funded and low-quality schools.

Madam Speaker, the significant challenges encountered regarding school grants include the following:

1. over-dependency on grants makes some school administrators fail to think outside the box regarding resource mobilisation programmes, such as production units;

1. administrative burdens can place additional responsibilities on school staff, including writing proposals, reporting on progress and complying with grant requirements, which can divert time and resources away from core education activities, particularly in primary and combined schools, where teachers are being used to perform accounting duties; and

1. there is a risk that grants may exacerbate existing inequities, as some schools maybe more successful in managing grants than others, potentially widening the gap between schools.

Madam Speaker, the following measures are being taken to mitigate the challenges:

1. school managers and staff managing funds and other resources are constantly built capacity in the management of grants, planning, information and resource mobilisation;

1. the ministry has requested for Treasury authority to recruit school accountants so that the funds in schools are managed by qualified personnel; and

1. guidelines for utilising funds in schools have been revised to ensure that the operations of the schools are practical and efficient.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that while the grants can provide valuable resources and opportunities for public schools, hon. Members of Parliament need to continue working with the Government to mitigate the challenges to ensure that all learners have access to high-quality education.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I have noticed that we have been joined virtually by the hon. Member for Kanchibiya. What is happening? Looking at the way you are seated, are you sick or tired?

Mr Chanda: No, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Okay. That is better.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I want to find out whether the grants to schools are equal. If not, what factors does the Government take into consideration when funding schools?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the grants are segregated according to the population of the school and how big the school is.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, I give credit to the Government for having increased the –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I apologise to my hon. Colleague who was raising a follow-up question.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to Chapter 12 of the Laws of Zambia, which speaks to the privileges and immunities of Members of Parliament. Each time those privileges and immunities are abused, we must raise a flag. My point of order should have been raised contemporaneously, but I was travelling and following the deliberations on radio.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana asked the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development a question. He should have spoken to me. He said that I directed councils to spend US$100,000 to buy ambulances. That is something that did not happen. He misled the House; I know that for a fact. There are punitive measures that come, for lack of a better term, from telling a lie on the Floor of Parliament or misleading Parliament. I withdraw that, I am sorry. There are punitive measures that come from misleading Parliament, and deliberately so.

Mr B. Mpundu: Taipitilekale iyo?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, as I raise the point of order, I wish to take you back to a not-so-distant history, when the same hon. Member of Parliament stood where he sits and made the public declaration that he did not need the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I know that the figure he mentioned on the Floor of the House is incorrect. Therefore, I rise on this point of order. Why would he deliberately and willfully mislead the House? For melodramatic effect?

I seek your ruling on this matter, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I noticed that when the hon. Member for Nkana took the Floor, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development was not in the House. The hon. Minister has just come in and immediately raised a point of order. In terms of the point of order being raised contemporaneously, I think that it meets the rules. For the avoidance of doubt, hon. Members, as you debate on the Floor of the House, be alive to our Standing Orders. In this regard, I will refer to Standing Order No. 71, which is on content of speech:

“(1) A member who is debating shall –

1. confine his or her debate to the subject under discussion; and

1. ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.”

Hon. Member for Nkana Constituency, do you have any evidence to place on the Floor of the House to confirm that US$100,000 was used to buy ambulances?

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, if you permit me, I can produce the evidence of the instruction from the hon. Minister.

Madam Speaker: I am giving the hon. Member time to produce the evidence. Please, kindly bring it to my office for verification, after which an appropriate ruling will be rendered.

Thank you very much.

We go back to business.

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Madam Speaker: At this time, you cannot say anything. Just bring the evidence to my office and then it will be verified.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, it is important!

Madam Speaker: Sorry?

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, it is important because the point of order raised by the hon. Minister seems to suggest that I tendered incorrect information. I think that this matter must be addressed. The hon. Minister has forgotten that he is the author of all the instructions pertaining to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I do not want to pre-empt issues at this moment. The hon. Minister has raised a point of order and I have guided. Please, provide the information to my office, and then I will look at it and render a relevant ruling. Let us not pre-empt that process.

The hon. Member for Kabwata may continue.

Mr Tayengwa: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

I was saying that I am grateful that the New Dawn Government increased the funding –

Mr B. Mpundu started walking out of the Assembly Chamber.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Nkana!

The rules are very clear that once a ruling has been rendered, an hon. Member cannot immediately walk out. Resume your seat and wait. After some time, you can go out. If you walk out now, it will be as though you are revolting against what I have just said. Resume your seat. When we are done with the hon. Member for Kabwata, you can take your leave, unless you have something urgent that cannot wait.

Mr B. Mpundu: I just want to go and get the evidence!

Madam Speaker: No. You can get it even tomorrow. There is no problem. There is no rush.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, I was saying that I am grateful that the New Dawn Government increased the grants to public schools. That is a plus. That is the leadership we were all looking for. However, the provision of the enhanced grants to public schools has made some school managers or administrators start having a pwando or what you can call celebrations over the same money. I have heard stories of school managers misusing the funds. What measures has the ministry put in place to avoid such occurrences in the future?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I talked about the revised guidelines that were put in place. Obviously, at first, there was a teething problem, but when we revised the guidelines, they became quite clear. Old habits die hard. Schools used to get school fees from parents but, now, parents are not paying them school fees because the Government has taken over the burden. You will still find people abusing school resources here and there. We have given the new guidelines to schools. Even the hon. Member himself can be of help in the matter. I told a Parliamentary Committee today that we might give the school guidelines to the hon. Members so that they know what is obtaining. It is not only headteachers abusing school resources. I understand that some headteacher and his deputy were arrested because they claimed that they had supplied chickens and beef to their school when they had not done so. They had supplied air. People are in danger of getting arrested if they abuse public funds. We will give hon. Members the guidelines so that they can check and see that it is not only the headteachers who are supposed to control the money, but a committee with members from various angles. If a headteacher or deputy headteacher is managing school funds alone, he or she is in breach of the guidelines.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, sometime back, we received a circular on the audit that was done in selected schools regarding how they had used their grants. It was noted that certain schools misused the funds. Have punitive measures been taken against the erring officers?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, many of the officers were later cleared by the auditors themselves. They were questioned and then their answers were published. They answered the queries, and most of them were cleared.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalabo Central, are you satisfied with the responses?

Mr Miyutu indicated assent.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member is satisfied.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, the people of Itezhi-Tezhi are grateful to the hon. Minister for the school grants because they have transformed schools. My question is on the role of Parent-Teacher Associations (PTAs) in schools. The hon. Minister mentioned that schools have relaxed regarding innovation. Parents also seem to have relaxed a bit in terms of supporting the Government in the provision of education to their children. What interventions is the Government putting in place to ensure that parents play their role and contribute to the proper functioning of schools and ensure that schools use their grants prudently?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I said earlier on that we have revised the guidelines. Parents are also involved in the matter. Some parents are involved in the running of the school grants. I thought parents would be happy that the burden of paying school fees had been taken away from them. The money they should have been paying to schools is the same money they use to buy things they want. We fund schools quarterly. It used to be very stressful for parents to pay school fees, but this time around, they are stress-free whenever schools open because they know that they are not going to be asked to pay school fees. Regarding parents contributing towards the proper functioning of schools, I think that the guidelines talk about parents being involved in the running of the schools and the grants.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, the people of Nyimba appreciate the provision of grants to different schools. The Government gives out the same amount of grants to primary and secondary schools. However, there are secondary schools that are not connected to the national grid and get electricity from diesel generators. Further, there are schools that are comprise only a 1 x 3 classroom block, but others are fully-fledged schools with twenty classroom blocks. Is there a criterion the hon. Minister uses to give schools the same amount of grants?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I stated that grants are disbursed to schools using a resource allocation formula which uses enrolment as the main distribution parameter. So, schools with a constantly fluctuating enrolment may be disadvantaged, as the system is not in real-time; it needs to be updated manually. That is the criterion being used.

Madam Speaker, regarding the schools that use diesel to generate electricity, two days ago, I encouraged the use of solar systems to generate electricity, this time around. This morning, I said that sometimes, a crisis can wake you up. We now know that hydro-electricity comes under pressure when we do not have enough rainfall. So, we have to start shifting towards the use of solar systems to generate power. Solar energy lasts. We have the sun to produce electricity. In England, where it is very cold, solar systems are used to produce electricity. Our President made the pronouncement that all schools must have solar systems even for water reticulation projects.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for highlighting the many benefits that the Government has provided to schools through the grants. I have boarding schools in mind. The hon. Minister said that enrolment numbers is the criterion that the ministry uses to allocate school grants. Boarding schools seem to spend more on utilities like water, electricity and sanitation. Some boarding schools have a small number of learners, but their cost of utilities is quite high. Does the hon. Minister have plans to help those boarding schools, especially since they spend more money even though the number of enrolled pupils is lower compared with some day schools? How can those boarding schools be helped to overcome the challenge of the cost of utilities?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, that is a balancing act that we are trying to do. As I said earlier, there are parameters we are using to allocate resources to schools. You may wish to note that the ministry is exploring ways, through the Zambia Education Enhancement Project (ZEEP), to digitalise school census data collection so that we have real-time information, such as enrolment levels. Due to the free education policy, every term, schools enrol many pupils. Sometimes, they plan for a particular number of students in one term, but because they have no real-time data, the next term, they have more students enrolled. The number can go from 8,000 pupils in one term to 87,000 pupils in another. Each time a new term opens, more children come to school. For us, that is not a problem. If it is a problem, then, it is a good problem because we can see that children are thirsty for knowledge, and parents are telling them to go to school. It tells you that parents still want their children to go to school, but they have no means. You can imagine that close to 2 million children are now in school. There were 4 million children in school, but after the Free Education Policy was introduced, there are 6 million. So, 30 per cent of the children in the country are in school. Since there are 20 million people in the country, in the next five or six years, there will be 10 million children in school, meaning that half the people in the country will be in school. This means, half of the people in the country are young people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, most boarding schools run short of rations like mealie meal. Is the ministry planning to supplement rations for schools that have inadequate food for learners?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, maybe, before I answer that question, let me make an appeal. I appeal to managers of our schools to be innovative. How come some schools are so innovative that they do not need Government subventions? Chipembi Girls Secondary School does not need to buy food because it grows its own food. Its pupils have practical lessons in the fields and then they go back to learn in class, and they are girls for that matter. The school does not buy beef or chicken. The only thing it buys is cooking oil. I am sure that in the next year or two years, it will even start producing its own cooking oil. It also does not buy mealie meal. It is about innovation in schools. The same thing happens at Lundazi Boarding Secondary School. Part of the grant given to the school is spent on the production unit. We made the pronouncement that all schools should have production units. If you went to Lundazi Boarding Secondary School, you would find that it is connected to the electricity grid in Malawi. When there is no power from that grid, the solar energy system kicks in to provide power. The pupils worked on that system. Instead of saying that they have run out of mealie meal, schools should have production units and produce their own mealie meal.

Madam Speaker, probably, I need to liaise with my hon. Colleague at the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development regarding the money that is sent to boarding schools from that ministry. I think that the money from the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development that goes to supporting children in boarding schools is paid late. Maybe, that is where the catch twenty-two is. Otherwise, the grant is enough. If the money was paid upfront, that problem would not be there. Maybe, we have a teething problem in that area.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

______

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNANCE, HOUSING AND CHIEFS AFFAIRS, ON THE CONSIDERATION OF THE REVIEW OF THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs Affairs on the Consideration of the Review of the Implementation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 25^thJune, 2024.

Madam Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mrs Munashabantu (Mapatizya): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, against the background of immense stakeholder concerns over the implementation of the enhanced CDF, the Committee considered the topical issue of the review of the implementation of the fund.

Madam Speaker, the CDF was first introduced in Zambia in 1995 and was, until 2016, provided for under Section 45 of the Local Government Act, Chapter 281 of the Laws of Zambia. In 2016, the Constituency Development Fund Act was enacted. Subsequently, the Local Government Act was repealed and the Constituency Development Fund Act No. 11 of 2018 was enacted to provide for the management, debasement, utilisation and accountability of the fund. That Act has since been repealed and replaced by the Constituency Development Fund Act No. 1 of 2024.

Madam Speaker, since 2021, the Government increased the amount allocated to the CDFper constituency from K1.6 million to K25.7 million in 2022 and K28.3 in 2023. In 2024, the CDF was increased to K30.6. The expanded scope of the CDF covers three specific components, namely community projects; youth, women and community empowerment; and secondary boarding school and skills development bursaries. Notwithstanding the expanded scope of the CDF and the increase in the funding, the Committee observed that factors still exist that impede its smooth implementation. The Committee’s findings and recommendations are well-documented in its report.

Madam Speaker, allow me to highlight some of the concerns raised by the stakeholders. While the legal framework governing the CDF is adequate, there is a need to address the capacity challenges emanating from the Ward Development Committees (WDCs) not receiving any administrative support and the local authorities having staffing challenges, on the one hand, and suppliers being unable to deliver quality work, on the other hand.

Madam Speaker, the Committee also bemoaned the lack of co-ordination and collaboration between the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development and other Government departments and ministries, such as the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services; the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts; the Ministry of Technology and Science; and the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. All these ministries have a stake in the smooth implementation of the CDF and should, therefore, have co-ordinated strategies. The Committee urges the Government to put in place measures to enhance collaboration among the stakeholders to improve implementation of the CDF. The stakeholders actually implement the empowerment programmes.

Madam Speaker, a study of the implementation of the CDF cannot be completed without visiting the CDF projects. In this regard, the Committee undertook local tours of Lusaka, Central Province, the Copperbelt Province and the North-Western Province. One of the issues that the Committee noted with concern during these tours is the growing trend of local authorities to underprice projects. In some instances, that is attributed to councils having too many projects approved against the available resources for the projects. That affected the quality of work done by contractors. In this regard, the Committee implores the Government to ensure that projects are correctly priced in order to achieve quality and value for money.

Madam Speaker, the skills development component of the CDF is a life changer for many people in the country. However, there appears to be many gaps in the way funds for beneficiaries are being utilised. In light of this, the Committee urges the Government to take keen interest in the implementation of this vital component of the CDF. There was a need to ensure that registered training schools did not defraud the Government by charging exorbitant tuition fees and, in some cases, failing to provide quality services. The Committee further urges the Government to undertake a national skills assessment exercise in order to re-align skills training with emerging issues, such as information communication technology (ICT) and bio-medical technology. Those skills should be included in the CDF bursary for skills development to enhance the country’s skills set.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members will agree that if well-implemented, the CDF has the potential to spur national development and to transform livelihoods. It can also be an important vehicle for attaining the decentralisation agenda and fostering equitable development through citizen participation. In the same vein, community projects can positively contribute to quality healthcare and education, and improve water and sanitation across the country.

Madam Speaker, the loans and grants also have huge potential to boost small and medium enterprises (SMEs) and transform the economic landscape. At the same time, through the bursaries and skills development components, youths have an opportunity to acquire a decent education and life-long survival skills. Therefore, the Committee urges the Government to urgently act on its recommendations so that the CDF can achieve the desired outcomes, as envisaged by the architects of this progressive fund.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to thank your office and that of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered throughout the session. I would also like to thank all the stakeholders who provided written memoranda, which your Committee relied on, and the Government institutions that availed themselves during your Committee's local tours.

Madam Speaker, with those remarks, I urge all the hon. Members to support the report of the Committee.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mrs Munashabantu: Now, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Munashabantu: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to second the Motion.

Madam Speaker, surely, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is a game changer and a perfect example of decentralisation. In three years, I have seen it increased from K1.6 million to K30.6 million. Further, it has components such as the community development projects, youth and women empowerment grants, loans and bursaries.

Madam Speaker, the Committee undertook a local tour of the Copperbelt Province, the North-Western Province and Lusaka. Many things were observed regarding the fund CDF during the tour, and I saw many challenges. The bursary component is an empowerment tool for the youth of our country, but it is not being utilised the way it is supposed to. Most of the young men given bursaries abandon the courses they enrol into, maybe, because of social problems. This year, there is a lot of hunger. Therefore, some students opted to go back home to look for employment. Other students abandoned classes because of social ills. Some students may not have been properly informed as to why they were given the bursary by the Government. Of course, some students have utilised it. In some areas, young men left training centres and went back to their wives, claiming that they could not be away from home for too long. Those are some of the challenges under the skills development component of the CDF. The Government had the good intention to provide skills to youths through the CDF so that they better their lives.

Madam Speaker, concerning the community projects, a lot of good work has been done, like construction of classrooms, maternity annexes and many more capital projects. However, there are many problems with the capital projects. Some of them are not up to standard while others are abandoned along the way. The Committee found that most contractors, especially in rural areas, are not well versed in procurement procedures. The cost of the projects has not been up to standard because contractors are afraid of one or two things. Local contractors complained that their contracts are usually disqualified when they are submitted under the national tender process. The Committee found that contractors brought down the estimates in the bids so that their bids could qualify under the national tender process. Therefore, the Committee recommends that proper capacity building be conducted for contractors before they submit their bids. Most of them take too much time to complete projects and, sometimes, even abandon them. 

Madam Speaker, concerning the empowerment loans, there has been a lack of capacity and incentives from the Government to the Ward Development Committees (WDCs). There has not been any administrative help to the WDCs. The members of the WDCs are doing the work on a voluntary basis, and that has brought many problems to the CDF. Some WDC members get fatigued and have no motivation to do the right thing. Therefore, the Government should consider supporting them administratively so that they are able to reach different and faraway places, especially in rural constituencies.

Madam Speaker, the Committee urges the Government to take up the sensitisation role so that locals know what projects are to be implemented. Too many schools and classrooms are being built, but there are other projects that can be implemented to develop our areas. Many places chose to build schools because the people were not sensitised on what to do with the funds for community projects. So, year in and year out, they build classroom blocks and maternity wings without considering other projects. 

Madam Speaker, the Committee also discovered that most councils have more than one constituency to manage. Therefore, they are overloaded with projects, but they do not have the capacity to implement them. You will find that a district has one Quantity Surveyor to work on many different projects. That is a challenge councils face. Concerning the same component of capital projects, the Committee found that –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, there is one hon. Member on my right who is standing. Another hon. Member on my left is also standing. Do not stand unless you are called upon to debate.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: As I guided yesterday, as you go out, please, do it quietly. Do not stand because you disrupt the person who is on the Floor debating and the hon. Members who are listening when you do that.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mrs Munashabantu: Madam Speaker, on monitoring and evaluation, most of the people who are carrying out the function do not have the knowhow. They could not tell which projects were being worked on or give feedback. Whenever a project is approved, there is no feedback to the community. So, the community does not even know whether a project is up to standard or not when it is completed. 

Madam Speaker, with those few contributions, I second the Motion. 

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: I see that there is a lot of interest on this matter. Please, as you debate, avoid repeating yourselves. Bring out new issues rather than repeat what other hon. Members stated. Also, stick to the report.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to make comments on the debate on the report of your Committee on the implementation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Madam Speaker, there has been a growing tendency amongst us to be sensationalist over statements that are made in the House, and to misrepresent facts. Once in this august House, I made a statement in which I stated that the CDF was beginning to look like a scam becauseof the grey areas surrounding its implementation. When one says that something is beginning to look like a scam, one is not saying that it is a scam. However, there has been a growing tendency for people to misrepresent statements.

Madam Speaker, earlier on, I spoke on the directive that came from the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development that councils –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Just as a way of guidance, that matter is pending determination by me, pending your bringing the document requested. So, let us leave it. Otherwise, it will render the whole process nugatory. So, just debate. That issue will be addressed adequately, I can assure you.

You may proceed.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, in a letter dated 11^thDecember, 2023, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development directed councils to spend US$112,500 to purchase ambulances. I am not in the business of being sensationalist. I must put those things as facts. Time and again, I have spoken about the challenges in the implementation of the CDF. I want to be on record, and to be as candid as I can be, in saying that the CDF is a very good vehicle in so far as addressing some of the developmental deficiencies in our communities is concerned. Therefore, the decision to increase or enhance it was very well placed. However, the question we must be discussing is: What has hindered the effective implementation of the CDF? I think, that is the central conversation we must be having here. Time and again, I have urged those in authority to pay attention to the issues that I have presented here because those are the issues that have made this very good initiative look like it is a bad one.

Madam Speaker, I have spoken about the capacity of local authorities before. Some local authorities like mine in Kitwe handle five constituencies. The same lean team handles five different constituencies. When I speak about capacity, I am firstly talking about competencies. Do we have competent officers to undertake this very huge assignment? That is number one. Number two, do we have enough manpower or human capital in the councils to handle all the CDF projects? I can give examples. In my constituency, Nkana, some projects should have been implemented in 2022, but have not been implemented to date. Therefore, the capacity of the local authorities is important.

Madam Speaker, there is also too much bureaucracy in the implementation of the CDF. A process that should take two months takes years. For example, a clinic that should have been built in 2022 in Kandabwe has not been completed to date in June 2024. A clinic that should have been built in Luyando has not been built today in June 2024. On the same bureaucracy, there seems to be a tug of war between ministries. For example, when a community makes a proposal to construct a health facility, the Ministry of Health will pull in another direction. That situation must be harmonised. I have made calls regarding that issue time and again. What do people choose to do? They choose to be sensationalist and to call me names as if we are enemies. We are not enemies here; we are partners. In our partnership, we bring to the fore issues that impede the effective implementation of the CDF. A good friend will tell you that you are headed in the wrong direction. However, when we on the left side do that, our friends on the right choose to be sensationalist and call us names.  That is not right. We are partners and we must work together.

Madam Speaker, a good programme under the CDF to give young people skills has faced serious problems. There is exploitation going on. I can give an example. A Government facility in Kitwe was charging K3,500 per student to acquire a particular skill. However, because of the bursary and skills development programme under the CDF, that facility is not charging K15,000 per student. That is exploitation. When we on the left side talk about such things, we are seen to be enemies. That institution is not the only one that has been hiking fees; all institutions are exploiting this fund. Who is supposed to address the issue? It is the hon. Minister and his team, but how can he address the issue when he is not listening? The people on the right are quick to label us enemies when we bring such issues to the Floor of the House. I want to stress that that programme under the CDF is the flagship of the United Party for National Development (UPND). It is the only thing that the UPND is holding on to now. If it messes up this programme, it will be trouble.

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: It will be in trouble.

Madam Speaker, the only way we can help the UPND Government is by highlighting problems here. The people on the right should not look at names, but listen to what we are saying unless tafikwete amano. They need to listen to what we are saying unless we are not making sense. We are partners. The Bible says that two cannot walk together unless they agree. To agree with another person, you must be willing to listen to –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, quoting the Bible is not allowed in the House.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: It is not allowed. So, use another way to make the same point.

You may proceed. 

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the CDF can actualise decentralisation. We cannot actualise decentralisation when the parent ministry is holding on to power and dictating what councils must do every now and then. Councils have been directed to spend K2.7 million or US$112,500 to buy ambulances. The ministry dictated that when it gave us power to decide what to use the CDF for. We need absolute power to make decisions. The ministry should not hold on to power. That is the only way we can attain meaningful decentralisation.

Hon. Minister, let go. The CDF is the people’s fund. We want to make our own decisions on how to spend the money.

Madam Speaker, when we cut away the empowerment funds and other programmes from the K30.6 million CDF, we are only left with a meagre K15million or K16 million. However, when you look at the size of some constituencies, Nkana, for example, you will see that that amount is a drop in the ocean. That is why we cry about certain issues. We are not enemies; we are partners of the people on the right.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I commend the chairperson who presented the report.

Madam Speaker, under Observation 4.4 of the report, we have been told what we need to do, as a country. Hon. Members on the right need to look at those issues. For any Government to succeed, the success of the local governments is important. The local governments are on the right track to success because they have the resources. However, for big constituencies such as Nyimba, the resources are not enough. At 11,000 km², my constituency is the biggest in the Eastern Province. That means that the resources are not enough for the area. The people located in faraway areas in the constituency do not appreciate what we are doing because they cannot see the projects on their side of the constituency. 

Madam Speaker, the programme to provide skills to young people under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is good. However, I agree with the previous speaker that the charges some training institutions are charging are inexplicable. No one can explain how the institutions increased them. When the students graduate, what do we have for them as graduates from those schools?

Madam Speaker, the Government came up with a system called the Electronic-Government Procurement (e-GP). That is a brilliant idea, but it is not helpful to the new graduates. The idea to send our children for skills training is for them to find employment thereafter. However, employment is not found in constituencies and districts like mine because there are no industries, yet youths are graduating as metal fabricators. They can come up with workshops and work for themselves. There are also youths who studied bricklaying. They can also start their own workshops. Unfortunately, when they try to bid for works in the constituency, they are told to come up with a list of documents and bid through the e-GP. If two or three fresh bricklaying graduates came together to bid for a contract to construct a ventilated improved pit (VIP) latrine in a rural area, they should not be subjected to the e-GP. That platform is not adding value to the good programme the UPND Government has come up with. We need to start looking at how to help the boys and girls who are coming out of the skills training centres.

Madam Speaker, you may be disappointed to hear from me that the prices of boreholes in rural constituencies are abnormal. In my constituency, the price starts from K25,000 up to K50,000. A borehole funded by the CDF costs K75,000. When I ask people why that happens, they say, “Hon. Member, that is how it is. You know that we are technocrats; we can do it.” The problem is that they forget that hon. Members used to be technocrats somewhere at one time before they came to the House. Can an hon. Member tell the people why a regular borehole costs K75,000 and an industrial or commercial one costs K150,000? Where is the country heading to? We need a proper whip from the ministry so that the people we are working with do not think that we are blank or that we understand nothing.

Madam Speaker, we need to look at the derailments in procurement. If the UPND wants to succeed, it must act on that. The House changed the law concerning the length of the procurement process from approximately twenty-eight days to fourteen days, I cannot remember the actual days. However, the procurement process still takes twenty-eight days or four weeks. So, the country is not progressing. We approved projects in my constituency as early as January 2024, yet we are still procuring items in June when we are closing the procurement for the year. It is very disappointing.

Madam Speaker, I have begged institutions like the International Organisation for Standardisation (ISO) 2000 and 9000 to train officers in the local authority. Our officers in the local government or in any ministry are two steps behind what communities want. We need to start moving forward. Failure to train the staff in local authorities will lead to community projectsnot being appreciated.

Madam Speaker, allow me to appreciate something. The people from remote places like Chikwasha in my constituency can now access good secondary school education, all thanks to the CDF. My constituency had pressure because a good school called Kacholola Secondary had 99 per cent students from Lusaka Province, yet it is situated in Nyimba District. Today, 50 per cent of students are from Lusaka and 50 per cent are from Nyimba District because of the bursaries from the CDF. The number of school-going children from my constituency has increased.

The hon. Minister of Education understands that some schools now charge K3,000 and K2,500 tuition fees. He has acknowledged and accepted that we should pay those schools. If we look at the thousands we are paying boarding schools, you will see that surely, we need to be honest with ourselves. In 2018 and 2019, parents were paying about K1,200 tuition fee, if I am not mistaken. Can the hon. Minister of Education work with the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development and see whether the upward adjustment of tuition fees led to pupils in boarding schools having decent meals. I once monitored one school and found that it fed pupils soya chunks. The message we are sending to pupils from rural areas is that they can be doctors, lawyers or any profession if they go to good schools, yet we are subjecting them to eating soya chunks every day. When I asked the management of the school why pupils were served soya chunks, I was told that the school received only K1,000 grant per child, but the neighbouring school, Chassa Secondary School, was charging K2,000 or K3,000 tuition fee, and some students were sponsored by the CDF. The hon. Minister should look at that issue and adjust school grants upwards so that our schools can be managed professionally. About 90 per cent of hon. Members in the House do not even take their children to Government schools because they do not want to subject them to such kind of food. So, the hon. Minister should start addressing that matter.

Madam Speaker, as the custodian of the CDF, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development can succeed 100 per cent, but he should work on the derailments and the bureaucracy at councils because they are hurting the projects. This is the time the UPND hon. Members should fight and tell the people of Zambia what they have achieved from the CDF. Staying silent will not help them or bring them back into the Government because the people of Zambia will not appreciate the works they have done in the constituencies.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Report of the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs Affairs on the Review of the Implementation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) on behalf of the good people of Pemba Constituency. The Motion was ably moved by the hon. Member for Mwinilunga Constituency and seconded by Hon. Munashabantu.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, I wish to state that I support the report of your Committee. However, I will only focus on the inadequacy of technical manpower, especially under the Engineering Departments in the councils. That is because I have limited time, and I want to give other hon. Members an opportunity to debate this very important report of your Committee.

Madam Speaker, we need to build a construction team that will be comprised of architects, Civil Engineers, Quantity Surveyors and Electrical Engineers in the Civil Engineering Departments in local authorities. Those technocrats are very important in the implementation of community projects in our councils and constituencies. We are constructing modern infrastructure in most rural areas. The Government is also providing electricity through solar systems to the modern infrastructure being constructed. The question we must ask ourselves is: Who are the technocrats certifying the quality of the solar power systems being built?

Madam Speaker, we also need architects to work with engineers to come up with designs for bridges, crossing points and other infrastructure. In the absence of those technocrats, it will be challenging to have good quality infrastructure. Your Committee observed that most of the buildings constructed in constituencies are of poor quality. One reason we have such a situation is that our technocrats have poor monitoring skills.

Madam Speaker, the other challenge we seem to have is that the Bills of Quantities (BoQ) prepared by technocrats for projects do not meet the required standard. The specifications are never clear. For example, if a BoQ states that walls should be painted, but a colour was not specified, contractors will use different paint colours to paint the walls. One contractor will buy paint from Decotex Paints Limited and another will buy from Colourite Chemicals Limited, resulting in different shades of walls. In addition, the quality of work is compromised because the technocrats managing Government projects do not do a good job. Another example I can give is on plumbing. If a BoQ states that taps should be fitted, a contractor will buy any type of tap and fit it. It becomes difficult to question contractors when clear specifications are not given in. Those are some of the challenges that we need to sort out quickly.

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Members of Parliament and the hon. Minister of Local Governance and Rural Development for including the recruitment of quite a number of Engineers and Quantity Surveyors in the 2024 Budget. However, we still have some work to do because some constituencies still do not have Engineers or Quantity Surveyors. A typical example is Pemba District, which has no single Quantity Surveyor at the local authority to prepare BoQs. It is very important to have Engineers who can help us to accelerate the implementation of the CDF projects.

Madam Speaker, may I take this opportunity to indicate that the CDF is really a game changer. I had an opportunity to travel to the Northern Technical College (NORTEC), and I found that the college had enrolled 7,000 students because of the CDF. Out of the 7,000 students, 4,000 are sponsored by the CDF while 2,000 are sponsored by the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA). That means 6,000 students are being supported by the Government. Therefore, it is easy to understand that the CDF is really a game changer.

Madam Speaker, as a Member of Parliament, I am sad because I came across an audio recording in which a Former President was telling his party members to not support the CDF. In my view, that is sabotage. We need to support the CDF because it is a game changer. We cannot allow an individual to sabotage the efforts of the New Dawn Government.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I support the Motion.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, let me thank my hon. Colleague for a well-rounded debate. However, he veered off the report and clearly contravened Standing Order No. 71. In his debate, he brought in a person who is outside the House and cannot defend himself.

Hon. Government Member: Who?

Mr Kapyanga: He referred to a Former President.

Madam Speaker, was he in order to do that? This is the House of rules.

Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, I need your protection against some hecklers on your right.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapyanga: Was he in order to veer off the report and bring in a person who cannot defend himself in the House?

Hon. Government Members: Which one!

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Do not interject because you are not adding any value to the process that is ongoing. I did not get what the hon. Member referred to. What did you refer to, hon. Member for Pemba?

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, I referred to a Former President, who is the owner of the slogan, ‘ubombamwibala, alilamwibala.’

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Now you are even making –

Laugher

Madam Speaker: According to our rules, you should not debate members who are not able to defend themselves on the Floor of the House. The hon. Member for Pemba referred to a video, which he has not produced. To the extent that he referred to a video that was apparently circulating on social media, but has not tendered it on the Floor of the House, he was out of order.

Mr A. Banda (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, as I support the Motion, I will do so briefly and concisely so that I leave some time for my hon. Colleagues.

Madam Speaker, I will look at certain issues that affect us in Chimwemwe. I will look at the 5 per cent component on disasters under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). As far as I am concerned, a disaster means something that happens without notifying any person. When something happens without notice, it should be taken care of to avoid calamity. However, that is not what happens, and I will give a very good example of Chimwemwe, itself. We applied for funds from that component to assist us to rehabilitate a police station and two bridges that had given in and could cause harm. We have a police station that is between Kamatipa Ward and Kawama Ward. That area is densely highly populated. So, we need a proper police station to provide security. One wonders whether we have any police there because of the amount of crime in the area. The holding cell at the same police station has a capacity of twenty to thirty people. The police station has given in. You can actually see a crack running from the ceiling right down to the foundation. We have done everything possible. Truly speaking, approval has already been done for that project. However, the biggest problem –

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chimwemwe!

I can see the hon. Member for Nkana straining his ears to get what you are saying.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Speak slowly and clearly so that hon. Members can hear you.

Hon. Member: Mr Harvard!

Madam Speaker: He was educated in America. So, bear with him.

You may proceed, hon. Member.

Mr A. Banda: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, for your protection.

Madam Speaker, if nothing is done now, we could face calamity because that police station will crumble. We also have two bridges that connect two areas of Chimwemwe. Those bridges have broken down. So, connectivity between the areas has been cut off. I am happy that the projects were approved last year, but the funds have not yet been released. It looks like I would have been better off had I used the normal procedure of capturing the projects under the CDF because they would have been implemented faster. So, I hope that the hon. Minister will look into that.

Madam Speaker, another issue is skills development. That is a very good portion of the CDF. However, the calibre of students we are getting from the skills training colleges is questionable. I have never seen any university, college or school have a 100 per cent pass rate year in and year out. However, that is what most of the colleges are doing; our students who enrolled for skills training are all passing. One funny thing is that I managed to speak to Mopani Copper Mines Plc so that it could engage ten students who underwent training as machine operators. Unfortunately, all the ten students failed the practical test. That tells us that we are actually wasting our money because our children are not being trained properly using the CDF. The training institutions are more interested in making money than training our youth. Therefore, the relevant ministry should take a look at that issue and investigate so that the quality that comes out of skills training colleges befits the money we spend.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about construction projects. Most construction projects are failing because we lack help, and that help should come from the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. Most people who have undertaken the construction works are new entrants in the system, thus, they do not have Quantity Surveyors to come up with proper tender documents.     

They rely on other people to come up with figures for them. As a result, they bid for contracts with very low rates. Our procurement departments in the local authorities are also not helping. They go ahead and give them contracts. In the end, the contractors are unable to complete the works simply because they under-quoted prices. So, we need councils to have their own estimates. Before they give any contract, they should ensure that there is a 5 per cent contingency fund in a contract so that any contractor who is given the works will be able to complete them well. You will notice that some projects have been abandoned not because contractors were clever, but because they ran out of money. Some contractors, I do not know whether I should call them clever or crooked, finish the works, but they use a lower amount of cement. As a result, the strength of the buildings is compromised. So, after four to three years, you see the buildings falling apart.

Madam Speaker, there is another part I would like to talk about. I am happy that we have a police vehicle in the constituency because we need the police to patrol our areas. However, the police do not have fuel. So, I wonder whether the hon. Minister can allow us to use a certain portion of money to buy fuel or even service the police vehicles so that patrols can be done throughout the night. When the vehicles break down, we can also provide spare parts.

Madam Speaker, I have noticed that Grade 6 contractors need help from the ministry. They are asked to pay for certification from the National Council for Construction (NCC) and the Engineering Institute of Zambia (EIZ). I believe that the NCC certificate is enough for them because it costs over K1,000. The EIZ certificate is almost K5,000. Why do we have the EIZ and the NCC, when the NCC can check Directors of a company and check the projects? The EIZ also does the same thing. We are stifling our nascent contractors by requiring multiple certification.

Madam Speaker, before I resume my seat, may I thank the mover of the Motion and the seconder. I noticed that there are two projects in Chimwemwe that have been highlighted in the report as one of the best projects undertaken. Thank you for that.

Madam Speaker: I do not know if the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu understood what the hon. Member for Chimwemwe debated.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: That was on a lighter note.

Laughter

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity you have given me to speak on behalf of the good people of Kabwata.

Madam Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is really a game changer. Today, I can tell you that even people who did not believe in the CDF now do so. The theme of the CDF is now in their hearts. Even the people who believed that the CDF was a scam at one point now agree that it is a game changer.

Madam Speaker, I strongly believe that the CDF should be distributed or disbursed according to the number of people in a constituency. For instance, Kanyama Constituency has a population of over 700,000 people, meaning that close to seven constituencies compete with one constituency. Look at Kabwata. It has over 450,000 people, but the CDF for Kabwata and Kanyama is the same. So, when a project is implemented in a big constituency, people do not feel the impact. I strongly believe that we should come up with a mechanism that will allow big constituencies with huge populations to get more resources. That way, the Government will take development to the people.

Madam Speaker, on the implementation of CDF projects, I strongly believe that we need to build capacity among the local contractors living within constituencies. Kabwata has a number of registered construction companies, but in the past, most of the contracts were awarded to contractors from the Copperbelt or Kafue. I think that we need to build capacity among the contractors within our constituencies.

Madam Speaker, on skills training, I strongly feel that we have done a lot, but we should continue to increase the number of students to train. Kabwata has trained over 2,000 students in different skills. We have given them a lifeline. I strongly believe that we need to check some skills training centres that are providing education to our children.

Madam Speaker, let me come to the issue of grants and loans under the CDF. I think that we need to speak to those who applied for loans and grants because they need to change their mindset. Whenever they are given loans or grants, most people spend the money instead of developing their businesses. Once a person develops his or her business, or a co-operative develops its business, poverty is reduced at the household level. We need to do a lot regarding the loans and grants. Let us build capacity and ensure that people receive adequate training. We can even engage people who specialise in management of loans to train the beneficiaries. I think that some commercial banks that we have engaged to manage the loans and grants under the CDF are failing us. One commercial bank was given authority to manage our funds in Kabwata, but I think that it has failed us. It should not take six months just to give out loans. That does not add up. We need to ensure that the commercial banks are not using the CDF to generate more money for themselves like buying Treasury Bills.

Madam Speaker, let us build capacity among the people who carry out the projects, like the Ward Development Committees (WDCs) members. I read somewhere that in every profit, there is labour. Let us come up with a solution for the WDC members, who are helping us to develop our communities. We need to find a solution on how best we can motivate them. Without motivation, nothing moves in life.

Madam Speaker, on monitoring and evolution (M&E), I think that we need to do a lot. Most councils have not done much in that area, yet we provided them with incentives to carry out the work. We provided them with vehicles to carry out M&E, but it is not being done. I do not agree with somebody who said that when one council is managing five constituencies, it may not succeed in implementing the CDF projects. Lusaka City Council (LCC) manages seven constituencies. Look at how Mandevu and Kabwata constituencies have managed to implement the CDF projects. That means that the council officials are doing what they were trained to do. 

Mr B. Mpundu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, on the issue of pricing projects, I have seen that most of the projects that are being implemented in Lusaka –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mpika, you were given an opportunity to debate. I have seen that you have been debating while seated. Please, allow other hon. Members to debate. If you have any concerns, push them to the hon. Member who would like to say something as well. We have an opportunity to cover as many hon. Members as possible. This is a topical issue. So, I want as many hon. Members of Parliament as possible to debate. So, do not raise unnecessary points of order. If you have a point or you want to react to something, write it down. You will respond when you are given an opportunity to debate. If you have already spoken, share it with another hon. Member and he or she will bring it out.

Mr Tayengwa: Madam Speaker, thank you.

Madam Speaker, on the issue of pricing, I think that we need to do a lot because most contractors give us exaggerated prices. I see that people are actually reaping from the CDF. Even the fees charged by skills training centres are abnormal.

Madam Speaker, let me come to the issue of auditing the CDF. We need an audit so that we see how we have fared on the CDF. On procurement, a lot of work still needs to be done; we have not done a lot. We need to make things easier for those who are doing the work. We still have some challenges in procurement.

Madam Speaker, with those few words, I support the report on behalf of the good people of Kabwata.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr E. Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, thank you –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until1700 hours.

_______

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the mover of the Motion and the seconder for doing a good job. I hope that the hon. Minister is listening.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Msanzala, you are supposed to debate through the Chair.

Mr E. Daka: Madam Speaker, firstly, I want to thank the Government for increasing the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I want to put it on record that the CDF is a good vehicle that we can use to develop Mother Zambia.

Madam Speaker, the mover of the Motion talked about capacity and co-ordination. I will centre my debate on these two points. The Committee was right to report that most councils and quasi-Government departments like the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) have similar challenges. Training institutions are accredited to TEVETA, but you will find that TEVETA has only four inspectors. Those four inspectors cannot manage to inspect all the institutions accredited to TEVETA. I can cite an example. There are many schools accredited to TEVETA offering courses, but it is difficult for inspectors from TEVETA to monitor them all because the number of inspectors is small. They cannot manage to inspect all the institutions they have issued licences to. Therefore, I urge the Government to improve the number of TEVETA inspectors. We are spending money on skills training centres and taking children to those schools so that they can be fully-baked to sustain themselves. We need to see the change in students who have been trained from those schools. Let us employ more people under TEVETA so that they can supervise the schools that they issue licences to. That, in turn, will lead to better results for our citizens.

Madam Speaker, on capacity, I would like to mention to the Committee that even the Ward Development Committees (WDCs) that we are entrusting to do the job under the CDF need to have the capacity to do the work. Councils should train WDCs. I witnessed one programme in which people were trained for a day only. That is not sufficient to educate the locals. So, I urge the Government and the hon. Minister to improve on that area. The Government needs to come up with incentives for WDC members because they are just volunteers; they do not get paid. Giving them a small token would motivate them to do a good job for our people. We could even reduce the corruption that is taking place in councils. Some members of WDCs tend to get small tokens from people so that they add them to lists of students to be sponsored for skills training, because they do not get paid.

Madam Speaker, regarding co-ordination, you will find that a council and the Ministry of Education will allocate funds to one project in one year, for example. Because there is no co-ordination between the two institutions, you will discover that the same project was already funded by the Central Government. When there is good co-ordination, we can save funds and implement more projects in our communities.

Madam Speaker, the other thing I want to talk about is a lack of monitoring. Contractors are told to deliver desks to various schools, but councils do not monitor the delivery. There is a need for councils to monitor and inspect the desks. Now, because the number of workers in councils is limited, monitoring does not happen. In some councils like the one in my constituency, there is only the Deputy Director of Works because the Director of Works went to school and has been gone for more than five years. In the meantime, the work suffers. So, I urge the hon. Minister to look into that area so that we can have quality projects implemented through the CDF. A lot of money is involved in those projects. So, we need to have quality works completed. Mind you, that is taxpayers’ money. We need to see value for money so that our people can benefit from the projects.

Madam Speaker, lastly, I urge the ministry to reduce the number of instructions from the Central Government. We have been instructed to purchase ambulances and other things before. The Government should reduce instructions to constituencies. The WDCs become demoralised because year in and year out, they propose projects to be implemented, but the projects end up not being carried out because most of the money is spent on projects that have been suggested by the Central Government

With those few remarks, I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have heard the same issues over and over again. In order to save time, debate issues that have not been mentioned. That is a special request to the hon. Member for Dundumwezi.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, I am very grateful to you for giving me the opportunity to bring out certain issues that I think have not been dealt with adequately, on behalf of the people of Dundumwezi.

Madam Speaker, first of all, allow me to thank Hon. Samakayi, my age-mate.

Mr Samakayi: Question!

Laughter

Mr Sing’ombe: Also, allow me to thank the seconder, Hon. Munashabantu, for ably seconding the Motion.

Madam Speaker, allow me to bring out one component that I feel should have been included in the discussion on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which is the bursaries. There is a group of people in our society that is not benefiting from the CDF bursaries. That group are the blind youths. Our youths who are blind are limited with regard to what skills they can learn. Therefore, I ask the hon. Minister to include the blind in the CDF bursary programme, as a special group. There is a family I will not mention because it is not in my constituency. The oldest brother and the last two younger brothers are blind. Those youths have struggled to go to college because they want to study teaching, but the CDF bursary programme does not cover that course. My plea to the hon. Minister is that he looks into such situations to see how those youths can be assisted. They cannot learn in certain schools because of their nature.

Madam Speaker, my other concern is the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) platform. That does not sit well with our people, especially the upcoming contractors from rural areas. The hon. Minister should look at that. Most of our rural contractors are pushed sideways and are unable to get contracts because of the problematic e-GP.

Madam Speaker, let me also talk about the component on disasters under the CDF. A disaster is something that can occur unexpectedly. The District Commissioner (DC) is the chairperson of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) at the district level. However, the money allocated to address disasters under the CDF is under the local authorities. Why can we not transfer it from the local authorities to the DC’s office so that the DC can immediately access that money? What happens now is that when the roof of a health centre is blown off, for example, the request to replace some iron sheets goes through the same procurement process for regular projects. That takes a very long time. If that scenario happens in the Rainy Season, the building ends up getting weak because of heavy rains. The same applies to a school that has had its roof blown off. We cannot access the money to attend to disasters immediately under the CDF.Another example I can give is on boreholes. When a borehole breaks down in Dundumwezi, and just a cylinder and four pipes need to be replaced so that people can continue accessing clean water, the request to purchase those items has to go through the normal procurement process. That process takes a good six months sometimes. Why do we not shift the money to the DC’s office so that it can be easily accessed when disaster happens? I think that we can do better on that issue.

Madam Speaker, I want to speak on the issue of banks holding on to the people’s money. Why should we allow that situation? Why should we allow banks to keep people’s money for one year? For instance, in 2022, some people who borrowed money in Dundumwezi wanted to start grain trading, which is a business that is supposed to be done at a specific time of the year. However, the banks kept the money. By the time the people got the money from the banks, the grain trading business could not be done because all the grain had been mopped out of the constituency. The repayment rate of loans is another problem. You will discover that repayment of loans is quite poor. One reason our people give is that the loans are given to them at the wrong time. Why do banks give loans to people who want to invest in agriculture in January? What type of crop are they going to plant in January? When you look at the loan component, you will discover that banks keep our money unnecessarily. The Government gives us money and wants to empower people, but we have allowed the money to be kept in banks. Procurement is another issue. We have money, but people are suffering. We should prescribe the time within which WDCs should approve projects. We can give WDCs five days to approve projects under the CDF. It took one year for the grader that was purchased in 2023 for my constituency to arrive in the area. We only received it three weeks ago. If you went to Dundumwezi, you would see how people were excited by just the 5 km that the grader worked on. We can do better.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwinilunga, the mover of the Motion, for this very important report.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, let me sincerely appreciate and thank His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, and the New Dawn Government for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Even if only about K16 million remains after disbursing empowerment funds and school bursaries, that amount is a lot of money that was not there in the past. So, we need to appreciate where we are coming from and where we are going. That is my preamble.

Madam Speaker, the issue of capacity in the councils is notorious. I agree with what the other hon. Members have said on the matter. There are many issues regarding the procurement of the CDF projects. We need to relook at not only the capacity of councils, but also the qualifications of the staff. In some local authorities, staff are qualified, but the numbers are low. For example, if you look at Ndola City Council, you will see that it has four constituencies to manage. So, the same procurement committee has to sit and purchase things for Bwana Mkubwa, Ndola Central and Kabushi constituencies. That is why we have issues with the lead times of the projects. This year, we broke ground for some 2023 projects because of the bottlenecks that we have in the implementation process.

Madam Speaker, there is also a need for change management in local authorities because they have a laissez-faire attitude towards their work. We go back and forth on processing of loans and management of projects. Even maintenance of the equipment that has been bought under Bwana Mkubwa, such as graders, is difficult. For the local authority to just fix or grease equipment, one has to run around with the staff. So, there should be change management in the local authorities so that implementation of projects improves.

Madam Speaker, the CDF is an innovative programme. It is a game-changer, but there are issues in the way it is being handled. Our colleagues in the councils are not taking the projects seriously. When it comes to monitoring and evaluating (M&E) community-based projects, one has to push the council to do it. Sometimes, one has to carry council officials to go and inspect projects. Sometimes, they give information that does not tally with what is on the ground. That is where we have a challenge. Otherwise, the CDF is a game changer. Some of us have done so much in our constituencies to change the lives of our people regarding access to schools, health facilities and water. Moving forward, we need to streamline issues of procuring and M&E.

Madam Speaker, let me come to the grants and loans under the CDF. Accountability is very important. We have disbursed loans for the past two years. We are in the third year now, but there are still loopholes. For example, someone can pick ten National Registration Cards (NRCs) belonging to his relatives and take them to the council. He can also get a business certificate for K200, open an account, get a loan from the council and share it with others. There is no proper accountability. We are giving people money that they are not using for the intended purpose or to change their lives. We have an issue there.

Madam Speaker, regarding the bursaries and skills development component of the CDF, there are driving schools that have formed cartels. All they do is over-enrol students, and councils have no capacity to monitor them. If there are four constituencies under a local authority, and each constituency sends 1,000 students to driving schools, there will be 4,000 students registered to, maybe, three driving schools in a district. That creates a backlog. However, the fees for all the students would have already been paid to the driving schools, and the councils would not manage to audit or monitor them. So, the next year, the number of students registered for driving skills under the CDF is reduced because of the backlog at the driving schools. That is one of the bottlenecks. The Government is losing a lot of funds not only to driving schools, but also to other colleges like the Northern Technical College (NORTEC), where we send our children. Also, some students do not report to the schools even after the money has been paid by the Government. Sometimes, the money is paid, but the students decide to pursue another course or decide not to report to the school at all. How can we address the issue so that the local authorities and the Government do not lose funds?

Madam Speaker, those are some of the bottlenecks and loopholes we need to look at to ensure that our hard-earned funds are utilised for the intended purpose, because we do not have the luxury of a huge fiscal space in the country. We need to ensure that our children in the constituencies have a livelihood and change their lives through some of the interventions under the CDF.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I think that my hon. Colleagues have debated well on procurement and the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) requirements and the Engineering Institute of Zambia (EIZ) certification. We have small-scale contractors who cannot afford to pay for the EIZ documentation and others. So, it is important that we come up with systems that are tailor-made for small contractors. I am not saying that we should remove the e-GP; I am saying that we should find a way to sensitise local contractors and our children in schools. The people who are taken to training schools should create small companies and mobilise fellow bricklayers, for example, to carry out construction work in our communities. Contractors who have the EIZ documentation usually come from Kitwe or Lusaka. So, local people are not given an opportunity to tap into the CDF. The CDF is a very good programme that can change our people’s lives.

Madam Speaker, I thought that I should bring to your attention those few aspects on this very important report by your Committee.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to add my voice to the debate on the Motion before the House.

Madam Speaker, I would be failing in my debate if I did not thank the Government for increasing the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) from K1.6 million to K30.6 million. Without the increment, I do not know what we would have done in Kabwe Central Constituency. The CDF has done wonders for us. So far, we have managed to construct about seven 1 x 3 classroom blocks and others are still under construction. We have also managed to build local courts, police posts, markets and ablution blocks, and provided water and desks for our learners. We have managed to do that because of the increased CDF. So, I say thank you to the Government because it would not have been easy to carry out all that work without the increment.

Madam Speaker, one hon. Member said that the CDF is the flagship of the United Party for National Development (UPND)Government. He thinks that it is the only achievement. For me, that is not the only achievement of the UPND. I am sure that my hon. Colleague from Nkana has not forgotten that the President commissioned and handed over Shaft No. 28 at Mopani Copper Mines Plc to investors in Mufulira. So, the CDF is not the only achievement.

Madam Speaker, having said that, I want to highlight one or two issues that we need to address to improve the CDF. On skills training, I thank the Government so much because we have trained almost 1,000 youths in Kabwe in various skills. However, the challenge we have is the quality of the skills training schools. I appeal to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to collaborate with the Ministry of Technology and Science to ensure that training schools are inspected. Our students are enrolled in training schools, but when they go there, they find that the conditions are not okay and there is no proper equipment or there are no tools required for the training. We have to improve that situation.

Madam Speaker, there is a directive to the effect that the students’ meals and transport allowances have to be paid under the CDF bursaries. However, the challenge is that some day scholars demand to be given those allowances as well. We need proper guidance on who should receive such allowances, so that we do not have that problem. I can attest that we have that problem in Kabwe Central. We need proper guidance so that we do not have problems with our students. 

Madam Speaker, the other issue are the work ethics of council officers. I must say that if there are any officers in Zambia who have undergone a lot of training, it is council officers. Most of the time, they are out of the office attending training workshops in various fields, yet we do not see much of what they learn. I say so because the council officers in Kabwe Central have no sense of ownership regarding the CDF projects. I assume that the problem is not only in Kabwe Central, but also in other areas. Most of the time, we have to push and fight one another over projects. The council officers behave as if they are doing us favours when they implement or monitor the projects. I think that it should sink in the minds of our colleagues that they are the implementers of CDF projects and that they should have ownership of the projects. They are the ones who hold the money, and implement and monitor the projects. We have to pull each other all the time to achieve the CDF goals, and that is not right. They need to understand that once the projects are completed, they belong to all of us. When they understand that, we will be okay.  

Madam Speaker, I also want to reiterate the fact that as Central Province hon. Members of Parliament, we received a directive to be conducting performance assessments of our Council Secretaries (CSs) and Town Clerks (TCs). Somehow, I think, that is not a good thing to do. Imagine a junior official from the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) instructing us to send performance assessments through WhatsApp or any other social media channel. That is not good. Let us find another way. The performance assessment should be confidential, and it should not bring tension between Members of Parliament and TCs and CSs.

Madam Speaker, I thought that I should bring those points to the attention of the hon. Minister so that we can be guided correctly. Having said that, I support the report.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There is a caucus happening. Hon. Member for Chama South, please, lower your voice.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this very important report on behalf of the people of Kantanshi. I fully support it because we from Kantanshi have benefited a lot from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). It is, indeed, a game changer.

Madam Speaker, I thought that I should bring out three or four points for the hon. Minister and his technocrats to think about. I will draw the hon. Minister’s attention to the rate of implementation of the infrastructure projects under the CDF. What I have noticed is that it is business as usual. The construction of a police post takes one year. The construction of a 1 x 3 classroom block takes six months. So, in the process, our people are not supportive of the projects as they are not creating a difference in their communities. Therefore, the ministry should bring the private sector into the implementation of projects because the private sector will bring innovation. When the private sector comes in as developers of infrastructure, there will be improvement. After we have constructed infrastructure such as mothers’ shelters and bought vehicles, what are we supposed to spend the CDF on to develop communities? For example, we lack housing for teachers and nurses. The ministry needs to come up with an innovative plan on how the private sector can be used to build such infrastructure. Some of us from peri-urban areas that already have schools and housing for nurses can develop gated communities. When we use the private sector, there is no way a developer can spend six months constructing a police post or a classroom block. Private developers can employ the same contractors who are taking one year or two years to build a simple classroom block. I think that there is a need to introduce the private sector into the CDF. The backup of the funding is the same money that we are given.I can amplify that point beyond this conversation.

Madam Speaker, my second point is the length of time it takes for the Attorney-General (AG) to release contracts. For example, we approved the purchase of two tractors almost six months ago. To date, the contract for those items has not been cleared. We also approved the purchase of two tractors, two ploughs and two planters to support our local farmers, but it has been six months and the contract is not yet ready. Meanwhile, the price of the tractors might go up because of the exchange rate. The contracts should be quickly cleared so that projects can be implemented quickly. 

Madam Speaker, the third point I would like the ministry to look into is bursaries. In my case, there are students from Luwingu and Mwinilunga studying in the constituency, and we receive complaints that they eat soya chunks in the colleges and that their accommodation is not good. I think that the ministry should quickly look at how to improve that situation. As hon. Members of Parliament, it is difficult for us to go to the councils and ask for the contact information of the training institutions or colleges so that we check what students are eating and other issues. So, there should be a unit under the ministry to look into those issues.

Madam Speaker, I wanted to quickly add those few points to what many hon. Colleagues have debated.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, can you hear me?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, go ahead. We are behind time.

Rev. Katuta; Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to add a few words to the debate on the important issue on the Floor of the House on behalf of the people of Chienge. From the word go, I support the report on behalf of the people of Chienge. 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the issue of skills training, which all hon. Members have talked about. I would like to ask the ministry to put it in writing that it is not every child who wants go to a skills training school. I heard the pronouncement by His Excellency the President, Dr. Hakainde Hichilema. He mentioned that those monies under the bursary component could also be used for other courses such as health sciences. As Members of Parliament, we are finding it very difficult to help some young people because most of them want to study courses such as diploma in nursing. Unfortunately, there has not been a letter or an official communication on that matter other than the President’s pronouncement. We need an official position on the allocation of money from the bursaries and skills component of the CDF to those students who want to study nursing, clinical medicine and other courses. That will help many Members of Parliament and young ones from Chienge and other constituencies.

Madam Speaker, the other point is the usage of local contractors. Nearly every hon. Member has lamented the quality of work by local contractors. I think that it is important that we allow contractors from outside –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, can we, please, have your video on. You may continue with the video on.

Rev. Katuta: I am trying to connect, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, as we would like to make progress, we will come back to you later.

The last hon. Member to debate is the hon. Member for Mpika.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the report on behalf of the people of Mpika. Let me hasten to thank the mover of the Motion and chairperson of the Committee for having done a good job of highlighting the challenges we are facing in implementing the enhanced Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Madam Speaker, the CDF is given to communities and the communities make decisions on how to spend it. However, I am seeing situations in which we are receiving directives through circulars on the CDF. I understand that the CDF is from the Government, but communities must be allowed to make decisions on what projects they want to implement. I will give an example. In 2023 and 2024, Mpika had to request the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development not to prioritise the construction of a Constituency Office. Let me hasten to thank him for having listened to the idea to not prioritise the construction of the office. Instead, we needed to construct a health facility for the people of Chobela. Had we constructed the office, we would have been left without funds to construct the health facility. 

Madam Speaker, let me also mention that there is a need to put in place strict measures in the administration of both grants and loans. If due diligence was done today in most constituencies, it would be discovered that the money was not used for the intended purpose, and there is very little to write home about. The major reason is that some people who are being given the funds have no financial literacy. They go to people who know how to write project proposals and use those proposals to get the funds from the CDF. They do not even know how to implement the same projects. My hon. Colleagues have spoken about the Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) platform. Today, even a project worth K5,000 has to be submitted on the platform because the tender process has to take its course.

Madam Speaker, let me speak about the 5 per cent component on disasters under the CDF. Load-shedding in Zambia started two or three months ago. Immediately it started, we activated the committee on disasters to give us a report as the CDF Committee so that we could procure a generator set for a clinic. Today, that process is still ongoing. Where is emergency procurement? When we have a disaster to attend to, the procurement process is the normal one. At what point do we treat a disaster as an urgent issue? It is not known. The hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development needs to help us by looking at that component under the CDF.

Madam Speaker, concerning the issue of skills training, today we are paying more than K15,000 per student for skills training, which is the same amount that some universities and colleges are charging. However, we are not allowed to sponsor children to study professional courses such as nursing or teaching. We should be allowed to do that. I know that the wisdom behind not allowing us to pay for professional courses is that those courses fall under higher education. However, there are young people who want to pursue nursing at Chilonga Nursing School, for example. We also have those who want to study teaching. Another example is Malcolm Moffat College of Education. Young people cannot be sponsored to study there under the CDF, yet the tuition fee at that college is only K6,000 per semester. We send people to enrol for skills training at K15,000 per student. My plea is that the ministry includes professional courses under the skills development component so that other vulnerable children in society can be sponsored. 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of project approvals, districts should be in charge of approvals so that within a day or two, projects can be approved and the procurement process can start. That will help to expedite implementation. Currently, the projects that we should have implemented in January are still being procured. So, at what point will we implement the projects for 2024? Some projects for 2024 will be implemented in 2025 because of the challenges we are facing along the way. I appreciate that some processes have been streamlined, but there is still more to be done to attain efficiency in project implementation.

Madam Speaker, the ministry should also take interest in some Director of Works at councils. Inefficiency starts from there. The quality of projects can only improve when we have experienced people in those positions. In some areas, you even question what kind of engineers allow certain buildings of very poor quality with paint falling off to be accepted. The ministry should keep an eye on those people for them to do a good job. It should take an interest in those people. That is a very good department, and it is supposed to give us quality works, but we can only attain that when we have experienced and serious people serving as Directors of Works in the councils.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, how I wish I could have an extra five minutes to respond to all the debaters.

Madam Speaker, I want to thank the chairperson of the Committee and his Committee for generating a report that seeks to improve service delivery from the Government. The Committee system is the heart and soul of every parliament. What comes out of the Committee is what is laid out in the Action-Taken Report, and that becomes a work in progress for the Executive. I want to make the quick lamentation here that I have had a chat with the chairperson of the Committee and a few of his members. The interest that has been generated from the debate this afternoon does not match with what was delivered to the Committee. Not a single hon. Member of Parliament went to make a submission before the chairperson of the Committee. That is worrisome because, as I said, what is cast in the report is work in progress for us and is what constitutes the Action-Taken Report. Every so often, over some time, we tick what we have done from the concerns of the hon. Members.

Madam Speaker, I have taken note of most of what went on here. I am sure, what was said is in the Hansard, but very seldom does it find itself in the Action-Taken Report. My encouragement to hon. Members is, yes, it is good to debate, but they should present their concerns to the Committee. Make the Committees the engine of Parliament.

Madam Speaker, I want to indicate that everything contained in the Committee’s report is insightful. We at the ministry appreciate the report, and we will make it our menu. We are going to work on it until we attend to all the many issues that the Committee has brought out. The chairperson also sent me a note saying that there was something missing in the report, which is to the effect that the component of grants under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) should be transferred to the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). I will take the note and append it to the report. I will not fight about it because the reason the component of grants was added to the CDF is that hon. Members of Parliament as a collective refused to get involved in disbursement of grants. We did not want to start chasing debtors because that would have ramifications on our survival or the ability to come back to the House. The Committee has recommended that we move the grant component to the CEEC.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the implementation of the CDF. We have developed a dashboard that speaks to the performance of every constituency. We have made one publication and it has several extrapolations and interpretations. Let me take Mpika as an example. I wonder why the hon. Member for Mpika was even lamenting because he and his team are doing very well in that area. To fortify what I am saying, when I went to Mpika last week, I found the innovation there stunning. The commercial wing of the council partnered with some people who make concrete blocks. So, all the blocks for the capital projects in the communities are bought from Mpika District Council, thus percolating the economy there. I told the Town Clerk that I was going to copy the model in Mazabuka so that we lessen the cost of undertaking all the projects we are trying to implement.

Madam Speaker, the next thing I want to talk about is impact. I expected most hon. Members here to say that the CDF has been impactful in their society. I am very glad that not a single hon. Member indicated that he or she would like the CDF to go back to being K1.6 million per annum per constituency.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: That is an indication that there is a deep appreciation of what has happened.

Mr Simushi: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: I understand those who have said that the amount is still not enough, but a journey of a million miles starts with one step. We took a giant step from K1.6 million to K30.6 million. That is no mean achievement. We must concentrate our efforts on how to ensure that the money impacts the societies whose interests and aspirations we serve because, clearly, we have been given a task. I am very glad that I did not hear any hon. Member say that we should not have bought desks using the CDF, and that children should have continued sitting on the floor because it is not working. That is the impact. A learning environment has to be sanitised.

Madam Speaker, many hon. Members also lamented the hand of the Central Government. Hon. B. Mpundu spoke about partnership. Yes, this is a partnership. However, some partners are juniors. How do you become a junior partner? You participate in an election. Once the people give you the votes to manage the purse of the country, you are a senior partner. In this case, the senior partner is the United Party for National Development (UPND). The UPND campaigned based on certain promises, such as moving children from sitting on the floor to sitting on desks. Therefore, we cannot sit back and simply say that children should continue sitting on the floor because somebody is going to say that we are disturbing decentralisation. There are certain programmes we agreed to implement for the people.

Madam Speaker, the President said that there was too much crime in this country. So, we bought vehicles for the police. We do not buy police vehicles every year. We only bought them once. Those vehicles with 1HZ engines that we bought can last for thirty odd years. We bought them because we wanted to curb crime. Let us not be cry-babies. I heard one hon. Member here, who is a good friend of mine, say that his area has a vehicle and that now it also needs fuel. Aha! Chankala bwanji? What has happened? When the CDF was K1.6 million, there was no police vehicle. Today, the CDF is K30.6 million and there is a police vehicle in his constituency. Now, the hon. Member wants the ministry to find fuel for the police vehicle. No!

Madam Speaker, the Committee system is the heart and soul of every parliament. My expectation is that the brilliant ideas that the hon. Members have brought out on the Floor today will be summarised. Let them help me to help them. Let those ideas not end in just a discussion; they should be appended to the report that was generated by the Committee. Then, we will use them as food for thought, as we deal with the Action-Taken Report from the Government. That is what I intend to do.

Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Members who debated passionately. They are too many for me to mention one-by-one because of the need for brevity; I have only two minutes. I am grateful. My success as their Minister is also their success. Their failure is also my failure. Sometimes, we try to unsettle the comfortable whilst comforting the unsettled. We found our people living in squalor. Things were upside down. We took K30.6 million and gave it to councils to administer, and hon. Members are party to the decision-making in the councils.

Let us hold hands and make things happen. Where they are not working well, the first point the hon. Members should think about is that the intention is good. Then they should think of ways to make things happen. That is my expectation. Let us not keep debating and saying tafilebomba or things are not working. Or saying that the Government is asking constituencies to buy ambulances. What is greater than life? What is greater than saving a life? Many people have lost their lives because of a lack of emergency services, and we recognised that problem. Is life not worth more than K89,000? I must now disclose that those ambulances were bought at US$89,000 through a bidding process, not at US$112,000. That letter that my hon. Colleague referred to was expunged. It was withdrawn. Another letter had a directive on purchasing motorcycles at about K100,000. We dropped the amount down to K25,000. So, follow the conversation. Those vehicles were bought at US$89,000, not US$100,000. We do not need to wait to come to the Floor to have a showdown. We simply must talk together. That partnership that my hon. Colleague mentioned should be practised. 

Madam Speaker, I am afraid, my time is up, but if you allow me an extra minute, I can speak about Electronic Government Procurement (e-GP) because it is an –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will give you two minutes to wind up.

Mr Nkombo: I appreciate, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, when I talk about the e-GP, I am speaking for all ministries. The e-GP was promulgated through a Statutory Instrument (SI) in 2020, before we took office.

Hon. Opposition Members: By whom?

Mr Nkombo: I do not want to go into those details because I have only a few minutes.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: It was promulgated in 2020, and as a law-abiding group of people, we implemented it in 2021. I can now confirm and disclose that it has been a concern to the Government up to the highest level. Even the President has said at many fora that any law that stands in the way of speedy delivery of services must be changed. The e-GP is one of the laws we have targeted.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: So, please, just hold on. We are all going to be fine.

Madam Speaker, under one minute, let me say that the Committee said that the Ward Development Committees (WDCs)are doing work pro bono. The functions of the WDCs are under the Local Government Act. The law very clearly provided that the members of the WDCs work part-time. It is written in the law. After we abolished the component of the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF), the President authorised us to pay Councilors so that they could be comfortable. It took innovation from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to implement that. Everywhere I have been to, the members of the WDCs have complained, and I keep telling them to hold on. Once the economy starts bearing fruits, they will be remunerated but, for now, the law clearly provides that they operate on a part-time basis. However, we are not ignorant and we are not ignoring the fact that they are a very important component of the success of our programme. We treasure and value them, but they must hold on.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I also want to thank the various hon. Members who have contributed to the debate on the Motion.

Madam Speaker, I do not want to repeat what was said, but the hon. Minister ran with certain issues that are quite pertinent in the report. One issue that requires to be mentioned by me is the over-charging by learning institutions and colleges. They are over-charging local authorities. Therefore, I invite the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) to address the matter so that the ground is levelled to enable us to get value for money.

Madam Speaker, I thank everybody, including the hon. Minister, for such a live debate.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

REPORT OF THE ZAMBIAN DELEGATION TO THE FOURTEENTH ORDINARY SESSION OF THE PLENARY ASSEMBLY OF THE FORUM OF PARLIAMENTS OF THE MEMBER STATES OF THE INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON THE GREAT LAKES REGION

Brig-Gen. Sitwala (Kaoma Central): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House adopts the Report of the Zambian Delegation to the 14^th Ordinary Session of the Plenary Assembly of the Forum of Parliaments of the Member States of the International Conference of the Great Lakes Region (FP-ICGLR) held in Livingstone, Zambia, from 15^th to 19^thApril, 2024, for the Third Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 26^thJune, 2024.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion Seconded?

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Brig-Gen. Sitwala: Madam Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No. 154 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, 2024, I stand to give a statement on the proceedings of the 14^th Plenary Assembly of the FP-ICGLR, which was held in Livingstone from 15^th to 19^th April, 2024, under the theme “The Role of Parliamentarians in the Promotion of Climate Adaption in the Great Lakes Region.”

Madam Speaker, for the information of the House, the forum was established on 4^th December, 2008, in Kigali, Rwanda, with the purpose of promoting, keeping and reinforcing peace and security in the Great Lakes Region. As expressed by the Heads of State and Government, the stability and development pact of the Great Lakes Region, which was signed on 15^th December in Nairobi, Kenya, came into force on 21^stJune, 2008. During the promulgation of the pact, Speakers of the Parliaments of member States of the Great Lakes Region, mandated by their respective Parliaments, stressed the point that democratically elected Parliaments could play a major role in the promotion of peace, security, stability, mutual understanding and friendship among the African people. They further stressed that member States could play a role in promoting solidarity, brotherhood and good neighbourliness among the States of the region. Therefore, the major role of the forum is to make Parliaments contribution to peace by putting in place mechanisms for better implementation of the pact, protocols and programmes of action outlined in the pact.

Madam Speaker, the forum comprises twelve member States, namely the Republic of Angola, the Republic of Burundi, the Central African Republic (CAR), Congo Brazzaville, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), the Republic of Kenya, the Republic of Rwanda, the Republic of South Sudan, the Republic of the Sudan, the United Republic of Tanzania, the Republic of Uganda and the Republic of Zambia. Of the twelve member States, the DRC, Congo Brazzaville and the Republic of Sudan did not attend the conference. The conference was officially opened and closed by the Rt. Hon. Speaker of the National Assembly of Zambia, Nelly Mutti, who assumed the Presidency of the forum the same day.

Allow me, Madam Speaker, to bring to the attention of this honourable House some of the highlights of her address to the forum.

In her address, the Rt. Hon. Madam Speaker stressed the importance of the theme of the conference in view of the negative effects of the climate change that the planet is facing. She said that unfortunately, the Great Lakes Region was not immune to the effects of climate change, as all member States in the region were already experiencing rising temperatures, erratic weather patterns and environmental degradation. She indicated that on its part, during the 2023/2324 Farming Season, Zambia had experienced a drought, which resulted in the loss and destruction of crops, affecting more than half of all the farmers.

Madam Speaker went on to point out that Zambia was committed to addressing issues relating to climate change. As a show of that commitment, the country was a signatory to international instruments on climate change, such as the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate (UNFCCC) and the Paris Agreement. The Government of Zambia had also created a stand-alone Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, charged with the responsibility of addressing issues of climate change, among others, which was a demonstration of political will at the highest level.

Madam Speaker, in line with the theme of the conference, a presentation was made by a consultant, after which the member States made a number of resolutions based on the theme, which included the Plenary Assembly urging member Parliaments to, among other actions:

1. use their legislative and oversight function to ensure the ratification and domestication of international instruments on climate change in the respective ICGLR member States that have not done so, and implementation in countries that have done so;

1. apply their mandate to further ensure that dedicated structures, mechanisms and resources are in place to step up national efforts on climate change adaptation, and honour domestic and international commitments under the guidelines of the Paris Agreement; and

1. emphasise the need for a clean energy transition as the main way to increase energy security and put an end to the Great Lakes Region member States’ dependency on fossil fuels.

The conference went further to deliberate on the political, security and humanitarian situation in the region. The conference was informed that whereas many member States in the region were stable, others continued to experience insecurity, conflicts and instability. These include the CAR, the DRC, the Republic of Sudan and the Republic of South Sudan.

Madam Speaker, after the deliberations, the 14^th Plenary Assembly of the FP-ICGLR adopted various resolutions on each of the countries plagued by conflict. These are presented as appendices ii, iii, iv and v of the report. I urge hon. Members to take keen interest in them.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, let me indicate that the Secretariat of the Great Lakes forum has written to express gratitude on the professional manner in which the conference was organised. Credit should, in this regard, be extended to you and the Clerk of the National Assembly and his staff for a job well done.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms Sefulo: Now, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sefulo: Madam Speaker, in seconding the Motion that has been laid on the Floor of the House, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament, (Rtd) Brig-Gen Sitwala, for the way he has moved the Motion. He said that he is retired, but not tired. Let me also thank the Speaker, who has taken over the presidency of the Forum of Parliaments of the International Conference on the Great Lakes Region (FP-ICGRL).

Madam Speaker, with regard to peace and security, the Great Lakes Region realises the importance that parliamentarians play in climate change adaptation in the region. In this regard, the theme was very well-received, especially given that Zambia is also going through the same challenges like every other country that has been affected by the effects of climate change.

Madam Speaker, we also spoke about the temperature changes that are currently affecting Zambia. We also talked about peace and security. One of the most important components of that is food security. With regard to the Great Lakes Region, how can we position ourselves to make sure that the region is food secure? That is because we cannot have security if we do not have food security. We also spoke about the water challenges being faced in the Great Lakes Region and how we can position ourselves to address the matter.

Madam Speaker, we talked about climate change financing and carbon trading. That is another issue we need to interrogate to see how we can benefit from it. We also spoke about what needs to done when the money for climate change and carbon trading is given to us. The money should benefit the citizenry of our countries.

Madam Speaker, we also spoke about the clean energy transition. The transition is very welcome, but we should not disadvantage ourselves. We should transition at the pace we are comfortable with because we are still using energy produced from coal. If we transition at a quick rate, we are going to be disadvantaged.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Mr Kanengo: Chiteme!

Mr B. Mpundu: Ba Bowman mu icindike.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I want to say a few words regarding the report that has been tendered.

Madam Speaker, a number of issues that were discussed at the conference have been highlighted by the Committee. I want to speak to the issue of the energy transition. A lot has been said. Africa has been called upon to be proactive in the energy transition. You are aware that in energy transition, Zambia sits at a very comfortable place because we possess the raw materials that are critical to the transition. The question is: Are we taking advantage of those resources that we are endowed with to cash in as the world transitions to clean energy?

Madam Speaker, conversations about the energy transition take place at different fora. The Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF) and other different groupings discuss energy transition. However, the biggest problem has always been co-ordination. I will give an example. I was part of the delegation that went to Brussels under the Organisation of African, Caribbean and Pacific States (OACPS). One of the prominent issues discussed at the Joint Assembly of the OACPS and the European Union (EU) was that of critical raw materials. African, Caribbean, and Pacific countries agreed to have a common position on how to address issues of critical raw materials. However, our Government is doing something completely different. So, there is a need for us to sync those discussions. If a Committee of Parliament discusses an issue somewhere, whatever was discussed should be in sync with the discussions of Ministers at whatever forum they may be. As Members of Parliament, we find ourselves having conversations which are completely different from what Ministers discuss at their fora.

Madam Speaker, time has come for Zambia, the Great Lakes Region and Africa, as a whole, to take advantage of the transition from the old forms of energy to the clean ones. There is also a need for us to form a common position on how to manage the resources. I am talking about the critical raw materials for the electric car industry. You may be aware that the critical materials in the electric car industry include lithium, cobalt, manganese and copper. All those materials are abundant in the Great Lakes Region, but we have not yet agreed on how to leverage them. Europeans or the people in the West are now coming to speak to individual countries about the materials. They are exploiting our vulnerability. When we need food, they will come and dangle a carrot. In the process, they will walk away with the critical raw materials. So, it is important that as we caucus or have those important conversations, we speak one language. When I emphasise speaking one language, I am talking about the language that should be spoken by Members of Parliament who are part of different caucus groups. We are supposed to speak the language that Ministers and Heads of State speak so that we do not seem to be digressing or going in different directions.

Madam Speaker, the war in Ukraine teaches us a very valuable lesson. Africa and the Great Lakes Region have the capacity to feed three-quarters of the world because we have plenty of arable land and good weather patterns, save for the last couple of years when we experienced climate issues. We also have good water bodies. The war in Ukraine has presented a very big challenge in the agriculture sector, particularly regarding fertilisers. It looks like we have all been trekking to that region to purchase fertiliser, but now it is in conflict. So, the time has come for the Great Lakes Region to discuss how we can produce fertiliser within the region. We have everything we need to produce fertiliser. Our vulnerability during the war in Ukraine should help us to shift posts from depending on the West to depending on ourselves. The only hindrance to our producing enough food to feed three-quarters of the world is fertiliser. The only time we can take advantage of the comparative advantage we have in land, water resources and good weather patterns is when we begin to produce our own fertilisers. That is the conversation we must be having. How do we take advantage of our position as the Great Lakes Region with abundant water resources and land?

How do we take advantage of our resources to produce enough to feed the entire world? It is a shame that today, Zambia is going to beg for food when we have everything at our disposal to produce enough food to feed the entire continent. Zambia can feed the entire continent because we have everything at our disposal. The only missing ingredient is fertiliser. We depend on fertiliser that mostly comes from a war-torn zone, Ukraine and Russia. Time has come for us to reposition ourselves to take advantage of the opportunities that we have so that we can emerge as a global giant in producing food and the critical raw materials needed in the energy transition.

Madam Speaker, I thought I must add my voice to the debate, and I end here.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu, SC.): Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to congratulate the Hon. Madam Speaker for having been elected Chairperson of the Forum of Parliaments of Member States of the International Conference on the Great Lakes Region (FP-ICGLR), which was held in Livingstone, Zambia, to discuss climate change in the world. I also want to state that the Hon. Madam Speaker will be representing Zambia in the forum. We are proud of the achievements she has made in her short stint as Speaker of the National Assembly of Zambia.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Madam Speaker, as the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana indicated, it is, indeed, a shame that Zambia is failing to feed herself when we have abundant natural resources. We have been failing to utilise the advantage. It is a shame that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, which was in power for ten years, failed to utilise the advantage that we had.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: We are putting policies in place to enhance agriculture. We are taking advantage of the situation currently obtaining in Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu, SC.: Yes!

Madam Speaker, Zambia is concerned about the intensifying conflict in Eastern Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), which continues to affect us. As a result of the raging conflict in Eastern DRC, Zambia is being compelled to look after people of concern, a situation which would not exist had there been peace in the DRC. We, therefore, call upon all the warring parties in the DRC to find a lasting solution to the conflict.

Madam Speaker, Zambia fully endorses the mediation efforts that are being made under the leadership of Mr João Lourenço, President of the Republic of Angola, which focus on DRC-Rwanda relations, and the Nairobi Process, which is an East African Community (EAC) initiative led by Former President of Kenya Uhuru Kenyatta. I call upon all peace-loving nations of the region and the world to fully support the initiatives. Zambia equally supports the initiatives of the international community in trying to find a solution to the civil war that is ravaging the Sudan. We also call upon the warring parties in Sudan to lay down their arms and engage in a peace process. We are also proud that Zambia has been contributing peacekeepers to the United Nations (UN) peacekeeping mission in the Central African Republic (CAR), where we have contributed 920 peacekeepers. We are proud of our men and women in uniform for the effort they are making to ensure that there is peace in the Great Lakes Region.

Madam Speaker, with those few remarks, I support the recommendations made by your Committee, led by Hon. Gen. Sitwala, the Member of Parliament for Kaoma Central.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Sitwala: Madam Speaker, allow me to thank the hon. Member for Nkana, Hon. B. Mpundu, for his debate. I also urge the hon. Members seated here to go through the report if they have not yet gone through it. They must take interest in the events that are taking place in our region, as the events have the potential to affect us directly or indirectly, as the hon. Minister already mentioned.

Madam Speaker, I thank you, the Clerk of the National Assembly and all the staff of Parliament who went to Livingstone. Actually, Parliament shifted to Livingstone and we had a mini-Parliament there. I thank everybody who participated; I think that they made the event the success that it was. 

Madam Speaker, I would be failing in my duties if I did not thank the staff at the Radisson Blue Hotel in Livingstone for looking after our guests. I think that the event went very well. We interacted with the hotel staff very well. Allow me also to thank the hon. Minister of Tourism, who is the Member of Parliament for Livingstone, for supporting us in one or two ways while we were there.

Madam Speaker, finally, I thank the hon. Minister and you, once again, for giving me the opportunity to present the report.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1832 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 28^th June, 2024.

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