Thursday, 2nd March, 2023

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      Thursday, 2ndMarch, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF WATER DEVELOPMENT AND SANITATION, MR MPOSHA, ON THE BREAKOUT OF TYPHOID IN PETAUKE

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda. Mr Speaker, welcome and thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Speaker, the good people of Petauke in Kalito, Chimate and Sitambuli have been affected by an outbreak of typhoid. This matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation in order to sit there …

Hon. Members: Where? He is not here.

Mr J. E. Banda: … – wherever he is – while the good people of Petauke, specifically in Kalito, Chimate and Sitambuli, are suffering. They have been affected by typhoid, and typhoid usually raises people’s temperatures. Right now, we do not know what we can even do and we are scared of what will follow.

Mr Speaker, we are asking for your indulgence.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

MR MTAYACHALO, HON. MEMBER FOR CHAMA NORTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF INFRASTRUCTURE, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, ENG. MILUPI, ON THE DETAILS OF THE CONTRACT FOR THE LUSAKA/NDOLA DUAL CARRIAGEWAY

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North):On a matter of urgent public importance,Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mtayachalo: Mr Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Mr Speaker, the Zambian Government recently signed a contract for the construction, maintenance and operation of the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway with Macro-Ocean Investment Consortium at the cost of US$577 million under the Public Private Partnership (PPP) model.

Mr Speaker, this project has generated a lot of public interest and it has actually been described as a historical landmark achievement by some commentators. As such, I think it is important that this project should be open to public scrutiny, especially that public resources from the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and the Workers Compensation FundControl Board (WCFCB) will be utilised. More importantly, yesterday, you saw that many hon. Members were interested to debate on this matter when the hon. Minister was answering a question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha.

Mr Speaker, we have also been told that there is a twenty-five-year concession on this project and that additional tollgates will be constructed on this road. I think in the past we had a similar situation, although not under a PPP model, when ZESCO Limited signed a power supply agreement with the Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) which happened not to have been in the interest of the nation.

Mr Speaker, it is important that the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development comes to this august House and updates the hon. Members of Parliament and the nation on the full details of this project.

I seek your indulgence,Mr Speaker.

MR MUNIR ZULU, HON. MEMBER FOR LUMEZI, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON DISTRICT COMMISSIONERS BEING ARRESTED

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Munir Zulu:Mr Speaker, thank you very kind.I raise a matter of urgent public importance directed at the Leader of Government Business in the House, Her Honour the Vice-President.

Mr Speaker, last year, we had moved a Motion to abolish the office of District Commissioners (DCs) and that Motion was shot down on the Floor of this House. Last week, some DCs were arrested in Isoka, in Luapula Province, on the grounds that they were involved in the smuggling of sugilite. Further, yesterday, the DC for Lumezi District was arrested for having stolen relief maize.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, most of these DCs, as a matter of fact, are those who lost elections as council chairpersons in the 2021 General Election. The DC who was arrested in Lumezi yesterday lost as council chairperson in the 2021 General Election. Most of these DCs have not just been exposed of the many illegalities that they are committing. Only a few have been apprehended.

Mr Speaker, in a space of less than one week, four or five DCs were arrested. Imagine if we were to give them one month. How many DCs would be arrested for theft?

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, these are the people whom our hon. Colleagues intend to bring on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) committees, where there is K27.8 million.

Hon. Opposition Members: K28.7 million.

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, if they can steal 278 bags of maize, what of K28.7 million under committees where we as hon. Members are not privileged to sit?

Interruptions

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, the people in Lumezi are asking that what is it that is pushing the DCs to steal? Could it be that there is less pay? Could it be that the hunger levels have reached alarming stages?

Mr Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President should address the House and tell us what is leading the senior civil servants, who drive Government vehicles with free fuel, to steal. It is unprecedented. The New Dawn Government is fighting crime, but its own people are stealing at an alarming rate.

Laughter

Mr Munir Zulu: Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling on this matter.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

MR KANGOMBE, HON. MEMBER FOR SESHEKE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNEMNT AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT, MR NKOMBO, ON THE DETERIORATED STATE OF THE THABO MBEKI ROAD

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kangombe: Mr Speaker, I rise on an urgent matter of public importance directed to the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Mr Speaker, the stretch along Thabo Mbeki Road joining Nangwenya Road to the Great East Road is slowly becoming a nightmare. Is the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development in order –

Mr Amutike: It is local government.

Mr Kangombe: Is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development in order to watch as the road is slowly deteriorating, instead of enforcing the maintenance order to ensure that we do not incur many expenses if we are to wait until a bigger stretch is completely dilapidated?

I need your indulgence, Mr Speaker.

MR KAPYANGA, HON. MEMBER FOR MPIKA, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE HUNGER SITUATION IN MPIKA

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Mr Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to rise on a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order 134. My matter of urgent public importance is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President.

Mr Speaker, due to the late delivery of farming inputs in the previous farming season, most parts of Muchinga Province are experiencing serious hunger, including my constituency, which also has issues of human/animal conflict. I acknowledge the fact that the Government has made efforts in terms of addressing the status quo and a few bags of relief maize have been delivered to parts like Nabwalya, Mukungule and Mutamba. However, that is not even anywhere near the words ‘enough’. Most of the people in Muchinga Province, especially in my constituency, Mpika, are sleeping on empty stomachs. Even those who are in town such as in Kamwanya and Chitulika are also having the challenge of buying a meda of maize at K45.

Mr Speaker, may the Government offload maize from strategic reserves and sell it to the people at cheaper prices, so that our people who are sleeping on empty stomachs can afford to buy a meda of maize at a cheaper price instead of buying it at K45.

Mr Speaker, we have District Commissioners (DCs) who are stealing maize meant for poor people like those in my constituency. The people of Mpika, more especially those in Chitulika, have received the news of DCs stealing maize meant for them with sadness and disappointment.

Mr Speaker, therefore, may the Government look into this issue and perhaps implement what one of the Motions last year sought to do. This is the Motion that Hon. Munir Zulu brought to Parliament, which sort to abolish the office of DC. If people who are getting paid huge sums of money can resort to stealing maize, then let us just give the position to the District Administration Officers (DAOs), instead of subjecting our people to misery, where public officers are stealing the maize meant for poor people like those in my constituency.

Mr Speaker, I seek your indulgence on this serious issue. I thank you.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:Order!

We will start with the matter that the hon. Member for Petauke Central raised. The issue is quite an urgent matter as it affects people’s lives. We will ask the hon. Minister of Health instead of the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, because it is not an issue that affects water but a health issue, to come back to the House on Wednesday next week to issue a comprehensive ministerial statement.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Amb. Kalimi:Ema Speaker aya.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama North, you can put in an urgent question to the substantive hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

Hon. Member for Lumezi, the matter you raised does not qualify as it does not specify the substantive matter. You picked on several other issues. You did not just narrow down on one issue. Therefore, if you look at Standing Order 135, it does not qualify.

Similarly, hon. Member for Sesheke, you can put in a question to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Hon. Member for Mpika, similarly, the matter does not qualify and I advise you further that on issues that are in public domain and are already being handled by investigative wings, us as the National Assembly cannot zero-in because the matter is still being investigated. At an appropriate time, I think we will be able to hear what the law enforcement officers are doing with the same issue. Let us proceed.

Mr Kampyongo: Wednesday is holiday.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: If Wednesday is holiday, then the statement by the hon. Minister of Health can be given on Thursday. Thank you.

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STATEMENT BY THE VICE-PRESIDENT

FLOODING SITUATION IN SOME PARTS OF THE COUNTRY

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Let us avoid running comments. The country wants to hear what the Vice-President wants to say.

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, as directed by Madam Speaker, following a matter of urgent publicimportance, raised by Hon. Tasila Lungu, the Member of Parliament for Chawama Constituency, let me provide an update on the on-going floodingsituation which has ravaged some parts of the country and actions being undertaken by the Government to tackle the challenges posed bythe flooding, specifically providing definitive and ongoing support tothose affected by the current severe weather and subsequent flooding.

Mr Speaker, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), in my office, incollaboration with other stakeholders, prepares the National Contingency Plan in October each year. The plan proactivelyidentifies the hazards that are likely to characterise each rainy seasonbased on the forecasts provided by the Zambia Meteorological Deportment (ZMD) in the Ministry of Green Economy andEnvironment.The seasonal forecast for the 2022/2023 rainy season indicated that most parts of the country would receive normal to above-normal rainfall.

Mr Speaker, as predicated in the 2022/2023 National Contingency Plan, the country started experiencing floods at the beginning of January, 2023 following an increase in the frequency and intensity of the rains. Flash and riverine floods have since affected at least forty-one districts across the country with the most severe impact experienced in the Southern Province, Central Province and some parts of Lusaka Province, the Eastern Province and the Western Province.

Mr Speaker, floods have occasioned an immense trail of devastation damaging critical infrastructure such as roads and crossing points, submerging dwelling houses with some houses collapsing while also submerging crop fields, disruption of livelihoods, damage to property, displacement of humans and animals, loss of livestock and combined loss of eight human lives; one in Sinazongwe, four in Mushindamo District and three in Lusaka.

Sir, as at 2nd March, 2023, about 373,581 people representing 62,264 households have been affected by floods. In addition, 1,509,222 livestock have been affected. In the Southern Province alone, 2,881 cattle have died from tick-borne diseases due to flooded dip tanks and at least, fifty-five from drowning due to rising water levels. Over 278,863 acres of crop fields have been adversely affected by the on-going flooding.

Mr Speaker, in the water sector, four dams have been breached with sixty-eight at risk of being breached due to their compromised structural integrity. In the road and transport sector, a total of nine-four roads infrastructure such as roads, crossing points and bridges have been damaged or washed away hindering economic activities and disrupting the normal functioning of some communities.

Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to inform the House that the causes of flooding are well-known. On the one hand, there are natural causes, whereby the vagaries of the weather aggravated by climate change lead to increased frequency and intensity of rains inevitably causing flash and riverine flooding in some of parts of the country, especially in rural areas. On the other hand, in some cases, particularly in peri-urban and urban settings, the heavy rainfall hazard translates into a disaster because of man-made developmental and behavioural activities that raise levels of risks, vulnerabilities and exposure to disasters. Some of the key man-made factors include among others, deviation from principles of proper town planning, lack of proper design and the construction of residential and other infrastructure development as well as departure from a culture of cleanliness and good practices in solid waste management. Residential and commercial developments have been largely sporadic without due attention paid to co-ordinated urban planning which also takes into account the flow and discharge of water.

Mr Speaker, the following are the general reasons for flooding in most developed parts of the country:

  1. lack of proper design and construction method which limits the channel capacity of water drains;
  2. lack of drainage features: usually refers to lack of drainage infrastructure and or adequate ground slope to convey surface runoff;
  3. drain deviation and or illegal structures: illegal structures result in deviation or drain blockages causing anomalies and obstructions to the flow;
  4. indiscriminate disposal of waste: water flow sections are blocked with debris including sediment, silt and or waste material and vegetation; and
  5. depletion points: water accumulates in depletion points or in certain cases, like City Airport in Lusaka, formed by human activities, for example, former quarries. This feature is a major cause of flooding in Southern Lusaka, especially in Kamwala South, Misisi and Chawama.

Mr Speaker, given the complex nature of flooding, concerted efforts are required from all stakeholders, namely citizens, local authorities, all councilors, hon. Members of Parliament, the DMMU, the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, the Ministry of Defence and all other Government wings.

Mr Speaker, for our citizens whose lives continue to be disrupted by the on-going flooding, the Government is taking exceptional measures in response to the on-going challenges. The Government mainly through the DMMU working closely with other stakeholders is supporting relief and recovery efforts across the country. These efforts include:

  1. providing emergency shelter to people in the worst affected areas of the country. For example, twenty-two camps for the Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) have been established in the Southern Province accommodating about 7,458 people representing 1,479 households. In Mambwe District in the Eastern Province, 474 people representing about 79 households;
  2. providing food, maize and or mealie meal, beans, kapenta, cooking oil, sugar and salt;
  3. providing non-food items, which include mattresses, blankets, basic household items like kitchen utensils and hygiene products and even boats and roofing sheets;
  4. facilitating rehabilitation, repair and construction of bridges and crossing points;
  5. providing liquid and granular chlorine to make drinking and household water safe to prevent outbreak of diarrheal and other water-borne diseases; and
  6. clearing and creating canals and drainages to de-flood certain areas to enable the smooth flow of water.

Sir, in terms of sectoral cluster disaggregation, the data indicates the following:

  1. in food security, 203,914 people are in need of immediate food relief and the Government through DMMU is currently providing the required food;
  2. in Water Sanitation and Hygiene (WASH), 160,070 people are currently in need of immediate support. The Government is providing drinking and household water as well as hygiene products;
  3. for shelter, as already indicated, 7,458 people have been accommodated in temporary camps around the country. An additional 1,536 people reported to have been displaced are re-integrated into their communities; and
  4. in terms of education, 3,444 people are unable to access schools in some flooded areas across the country.

Mr Speaker, may I reiterate that the problem of urban flooding is structural in nature and requires concerted efforts among stakeholders, including the citizens. Therefore, the New Dawn Government will take proactive measures to ensure that functional outflow storm drainages are in place; reinforce development control, especially in urban areas; and the indiscriminate disposal of garbage is curbed. Nevertheless, let me also mention that given the recorded cases of cholera in Vubwi, Chipata, Chipangali Mwansabobwe and Nchelenge districts, it is crucial that the immediate flooding effects and associated threats are aggressively addressed. The Ministry of Health is currently leading in this intervention.

Mr Speaker, allow me to take this opportunity to also inform the hon. Members of this House and the general public that the Southern African Community Development (SADC) Climate Services Centre had issued an alert on the Tropical Cyclone Freddy, which was reported to likely induce heavy to extreme rainfall resulting in floods in most SADC countries, including Zambia.

Mr Speaker, as of 1st March, 2023, the number of people affected by Freddy in the SADC region stood at 383,300, that is 226,000 in Madagascar and more than 163,300 in Mozambique, including nearly 47,000 who were temporarily displaced, that is 37,700 in Madagascar and 9,268 in Mozambique.

Mr Speaker, at least fourteen people have died following Freddy’s passage in Madagascar and in Mozambique. In Zambia, the impact of Tropical Cyclone Freddy has been minimal. Tropical Cyclone Freddy moved inland and diminished into tropical depression, that is a low pressure system, as it traversed over the Southern-Eastern borders of Zimbabwe and moved eastwards to Beira.

Mr Speaker, the tropical depression indirectly induced moist and unstable airflow from the northwest (Congo) air over the North-Western Province, Copperbelt Province, the Northern Province, Luapula Province, Muchinga Province, the Eastern Province, including the eastern parts of the Central Province, which resulted into episodes of moderate rainfall activities. On the other hand, it reduced rainfall activities over the Western Province, the Southern Province, Lusaka Province and western parts of the Central Province. Currently, the North-Western Province, the Northern Province, Luapula Province, Muchinga Province and the Eastern Province are expected to experience isolated thunder showers while the Western Province, the Southern Province, Lusaka Province, the Central Province and Copperbelt Provinces are expected to experience reduced rainfall activities.

Mr Speaker, the hydrological and meteorological agencies in Zambia, in collaboration with the DMMU, will continue to monitor the situation and issue timely early warning information for early action through public and private media, community radios and official social media. I wish to appeal to members of the general public to be on the lookout for this information.

Mr Speaker, let me remind the House that in order to respond effectively to disasters at the local level, local authorities should make use of the 5 per cent disaster component allocated under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). This allocation should go towards the provision of relief and humanitarian support to the affected areas in consultation with the DMMU, which are found in almost all the provinces and in some districts.

Mr Speaker, I, therefore, I urge all hon. Members of Parliament to take keen interest in the fund for effective management and mitigation of disasters in their constituencies. I also wish to appeal to hon. Members of this House and the general public to join the efforts of this Government led by His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, targeted at building community resilience and adaptation to climate-related hazards.

Mr Speaker, through this august House, I wish to call upon the private sector to hold hands with the Government to support Government efforts in mitigating the effects of the disasters, including building back better. Disaster management is everyone’s responsibility.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I will use my discretion and add twelve minutes to the time allocated to this segment.

The Leader of the Opposition

Mr Kampyongorose.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are the new leader of the Opposition.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The Opposition Whip.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, we appreciate the detailed statement from Her Honour the Vice-President.

Mr Speaker, indeed, we acknowledge that there is that component of allocated towards disaster management in the Constituency development Fund (CDF), but the situation in Chawama Constituency which made the hon. Member of Parliament to raise a matter of urgent public importance is a huge challenge that cannot be handled using that small component of the CDF. May we know how many households and families are affected in Chawama Constituency and how many families have been evacuated by the DMMU from those flooded areas where houses are submerged in water.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank thehon. Member for that question, particularly about Chawama, where the question came from. Indeed, it is bigger than 5 per cent and I hope the statement I have made did not imply to people that there will be no any other way of dealing with disasters in different constituencies other than the 5 per cent. That is not what it means. This is the starting point; the 5 per cent is something they can use immediately a disaster happens, but the Government, through the DMMU, is right on point. We are aware that in Chawama, there are areas such as the ones I referred to in the statement, where houses have been built in depressed areas and, therefore, water cannot flow. In my statement, I think I talked of creating canals. I think the hon. Member is aware that we are trying to create canals, although the issue is something that has gone on for a long time. However, we will not just sit. We are trying under emergency to create canals so that water can be drained into the Kalusha Bwalya Drainage. That is what we are trying to do. We are also trying to do the same in Kanyama.

Mr Speaker, other than that, the hon. Member asked what we are doing for those who are in flooded areas, where there is water-logging. I must mention, before I respond, that in Kamwala South, for example, the water is actually coming from the ground. It is not even the water that is flowing which is the issue. However, we are trying to pump out the water and create canals where we can. For the people who are flooded, we are actually in the process of lifting them off from there. We have a plan to take them away from there. We are also looking at the security of the infrastructure after the people have moved. We are working together to see that the people who are affected are taken to other places.This time, the intention of the Government, I can reveal to this august House, is not to take people and keep them as one big group in a certain place but allow them to find alternative accommodation. The Government will help to pay the rentals before they come back, that is if they will need to come back. If not, we will definitely have to help them find permanent places.

Mr Speaker, under the DMMU, we have decided not to go through perennial issues, year in year out. Together, we need to find a lasting solution. Somebody talked about areas where there is human-animal conflict and areas around rivers where there is flooding, which are perennial. I think together, with the people on the left, we have to find permanent solutions for our people. So, we are looking at that.

Mr Speaker, the rainfall may be as heavy during the next rainy season and again, we will need to remove them from those areas. So, we are looking at finding a permanent solution so that maybe, we can relocate them permanently. These are the things that are on the drawing board. However, for now, we are sure that we have the resources to remove the people from areas that are completely flooded to where they can stay and rentals paid for by the Government. Of course, it will be negotiated. This is what we are doing now.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, first of all, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the hard work she has shown through the office of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) in Kabwata Constituency, especially in Kamwala South and Libala. The Zambia National Service (ZNS) and the Lusaka City Council (LCC) have also been on hand to help. I pray that one day, the Bombay Drainage will be extended to Jack and Chilenje.

Mr Speaker, I do agree with the statement by Her Honour the Vice-President that flooding is caused by human error or climate change. In Kabwata Constituency, we can hardly blame flooding on climate change. We had forgotten and departed from the issue of planning. The LCC had allowed cadres to take up planning. There are some properties that we have identified in Kabwata Constituency that are sitting on water ways and road reserves. Is your Government, which is also my Government, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tayengwa: … considering demolishing those structures that were built on water ways and drainages?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, in my response, I did refer to town planning. I did say that planning is one reason we have peri-urban and urban areas. That is true and it is not debatable. It happened. People built on water ways and they have done it sporadically. Some people just find a space of land and they start building when they do not even know why that space was left like that. Maybe, it is a water way. I agree with the hon. Member that this is causing the problem.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member suggested that we demolish those structure but I cannot make such a pronouncement right now.  However, what I have said, if hon. Colleagues have been listening to me, is that for those we intend to lift from the flooded areas, we will help them through provision of rentals. I think that is what I said. The Government will pay for them. We will get them out of the water and pay their rentals. In fact, I have been given the numbers. In Chawama, 850 households are affected and 300 are supposed to be moved from where they are. 

Mr Speaker, as to whether they will come back or not, we are still looking at the modalities of how we can work out this issue. Under normal circumstances, when you do something illegal or build without the local authorities allowing you, I think you should know you are sitting on a time bomb and anything can happen. However, I cannot say here that we will surely demolish those structures. We will continue to look at our city and see how we can bring sanity to it so that structures do not sprout anywhere and people do not build anyhow. So, I cannot be specific on that matter but it is worth looking at.

Mr Speaker, how do we avoid this situation in future? We have a plan under this Government to drain Lusaka because flooding has become perennial. We should not allow water to flood and then it goes away without making use of it. We have a big plan on the table and we will bring it to the House when we are more structured on what we want to do.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: We should avoid debating because we end up consuming a lot of time. Let us go straight to the question.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, thank you, kindly, for permitting me to ask Her Honour the Vice-President a question. I listened to her very well. I support the hon. Member for Kabwata for requesting the Government to demolish those houses in Kabwata swiftly.

Mr Speaker, in her solutions, I realise that Her Honour the Vice-President has not mentioned vacuum tankers that pump water from all the flooded areas. She has made a request to the private business community to come on board and help. However, the companies that run those vacuum tankers pay huge amounts of money on taxes. Does she not think that this is the right time, as a long and short term measure, to remove excise duty on equipment for sanitation so that people can offer sanitation services at a cheaper price? Right now, private citizens are not in a position to afford to pay for anyone coming to pump water be it in Libala or Chawama because they do not have the capacity to do so. Is the Government considering removing excise duty on vacuum tankers?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the question but I cannot stand here and say “yes, we are going to demolish.” Knowing some hon. Members here, when that happens, they will be the first ones to stand and say we have made the people suffer. We will not listen to that malicious advice. We will do what we need to do for the people because at the end of the day, we must always look after the people. In resolving a problem, we should not create another problem. So, I do understand.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is responding to my call for support. To the hon. Member, the solution is to remove excise duty on vacuum tankers. Then, we are not together. I made an appeal. I did not make a compelling statement. I can tell the hon. Member that there are people from the corporate world who are helping even today under the same circumstance. So, we cannot start thinking of tax. We are thinking in humanitarian ways. We are thinking of helping humanity.Nobody does business without profit. So,you cannot talk of removing tax, after all that is a domain that belongs to people who think economically.

However, I cannot stand here and say yes, we will do that. This is an appeal, and it is those who are able,who should come on board. The vacuum tankswill not be a permanent feature of this problem;that is not what we are saying. What we are saying is that we have to look for a permanent solution. For example, people should stop throwing rubbish in the drainages, and that has nothing to do with vacuum tanks. There are many things that we should do. We are calling for vacuum tanks and food, and we are trying to put in place measures that can help mitigate the situation. You cannot think of having vacuum tankers as a way of life, such that every year, we call for tankers, and that is why you are thinking of removing excise duty. I think that is not really the way to go. It is not a permanent situation. It is a stop gap measure when we have a problem.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Lungu (Chawama): Mr Speaker, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for that elaborate explanation. However, I want to make a follow up. We appreciate the 5 per cent Constituency Development Fund (CDF) component that has been reserved for emergencies. However, we cannot access it because of the lengthy processes and procedures. What is the Government doing to shorten that process to ensure that we have access to that money?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, probably, the shortest way to respond to that is to understand what is creating a problem in accessing the 5 per cent because I think others have managed to do that.

Hon. PF Members: No, we have not.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The issue currently on the Floor is very topical. When Her Honour the Vice-President is speaking, the whole country is listening. So, let us be attentive and accord her the necessary tranquility that she deserves.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there are hon. Members on both sides. I stated that accessing the money should not be complicated because it is clearly indicated that it is for disasters. In the statement, I said that we should work together. Why should there be a problem accessing the 5 per cent to have a blown off roof worked on?

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Do not engage me in a conversation. If there is a problem, it should be stated clearly so that it is tackled by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development. That is the way to go because this money is truly meant for disasters. Why is it that others have accessed it? So, why can we not network and hear how other hon. Members have managed to access the money which the hon. Member for Chawama has not, so that we understand. The money is sitting with you. It does not come as an isolated component, and that is what you have to understand. We do not say that now we have sent the 5 per cent. You have to determine the 5 per cent, access it and use it for disasters. If there are issues, we, on the right, are ready to sit down and analyse why in this disastrous situation, people are failing to access the money. We need to understand the detail that is making the hon. Members fail to access the 5 per cent.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Mr Speaker, in most areas, people have been moved due to floods, not once but several times. Is the Government planning declaring the flood prone areas non-habitable?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member said that some people have been moved from flooded areas several times. My understanding is that people are moved and they go back. Is that the implication? When people are moved, they choose to deliberately go back, and there should be a kind of understanding. This has to be stopped, and that is why I have been calling upon all hon. Members to help us address such problems. In some areas, there are human-animal conflicts. In other areas, there are floods, drought and other challenges. If you are found a better place to settle and you choose to go back, honestly, I think that is irresponsible and, therefore, people must discuss. When people are moved, particularly with the support of the Government and other well-wishers, they have to commit to not go back and cultivate along the river, where the crops will get carried away. The following year, they will get inputs through the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), and will again plant in the same area and the crops will be carried away by the floods and they will ask for relief. I think we have to put an end to this. One way is to engage those communities so that we agree that when people move, they should not go back to the same areas and be affected again.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the statement.

Mr Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President stated that the immediate interventions the Government has put in place is providing food stuffs, non-food stuffs, and it is also repairing some damaged bridges. How much has been set aside for this undertaking? Further, how much has so far been spent on the activities that Her Honour the Vice-President mentioned?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President, I do not know if you are ready for that question or I can advise the hon. Member to file in a question.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member wants me to give figures, that is another issue, and I cannot give him the figures right now. It is important for us to know that the DMMUdoes not have figures on disasters even if a separate question is asked.

Hon.PF Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, can I go on?

There is no figure. So, where do we therefore, get resources that we use? This, generally, comes from the contingency fund. It is not something you are going to see. At the moment, I am not aware that we have exhausted the contingence or to know exactly how much we have. I have not been looking at the exact figures. However, we know that the situation is dire. It is extremely expensive to do what we have been doing like getting tents and food to distribute around the country. The figures are going up. The issue of disaster emanating from the rains, today –

Mr B. Mpundu interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, let us conduct ourselves in an honourable manner.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Have you completed your answer, your Honour?

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, let her Honour the Vice-President complete giving her response.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I was going to say that the situation of disasters in the country today is fluid. It is not something you can calculate today to see how much we can spend because the rains are still here. So, the cost continues rising. I cannot give a figure as to what has been expended if that is what the hon. Member wanted me to give. I do not have the figures unless we sit because the expenditure keeps going up. We also appreciate the private sector or non-governmental organisations (NGOs) that are coming on board to help. I do not have that figure. We do not have a budget line under the DMMU where the expenditure comes from. We draw from the contingency fund all the time.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nkana, you have a point of order. You are granted.

Mr B. Mpundu: Mr Speaker, Standing Order No.65 speaks to being factual when we are talking or presenting issues in this House. The Vice-President, in referring to the five per cent that has been provided for in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), she acquaints or refers us or alleges that we must utilise that in attending to issues of disaster that happen in our constituencies. She insinuates that the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development is there to attend to our problems when we intimated that this issue is not working.

Mr Speaker, is the Vice-President in order to state that there is the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development which has failed to attend to issues of disaster using the five per cent contingency fund? In my constituency, there is a roof that was blown off in December and has not seen any life since we applied for that contingency. Are we in order to continue to insinuate that we have a five per cent that is meant to attend to disasters when we cannot use that contingency?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr B. Mpundu: Are we being factual?

I seek your indulgence, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, the Vice-President is not out of order. The five per cent contingency that we are supposed to use for emergencies is stipulated in the guidelines.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order. Let me give some guidance. I am a Member of Parliament, as well, for Luangeni Constituency.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I had a problem with the mortuary. We wrote to Hon. Masebo, the hon. Minister of Health that we needed to buy some fridges because the fridges were obsolete. She responded that we can take advantage of the five per cent component in the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We did take advantage. We applied. They advertised the would-be contractors bid, and as we are talking, the list has been brought to the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development awaiting approval. So, I think, the five per cent is there. It is on a case-by-case basis.

So, the Vice-President is not out of order.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, do not debate whilst seated.

Let us progress.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

INCREASE IN THE STATUTORY RESERVE RATIO AND THE MONETARY POLICY

RATE

78.Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

  1. whether the Government is aware that the increase in the Statutory Reserve Ratio and the Monetary Policy Rate by the Bank of Zambia on Monday, 13th February, 2023, has adversely affected the economy due to reduced liquidity and increase in loan repayment amounts; and
  2. if so, what urgent measures are being taken to cushion the impact of the decisions on the general citizenry.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, let me start by talking about:

Monetary Policy and the Role of the Bank of Zambia

Mr Speaker, in discussing the recent increase in the Statutory Reserve Ratio, it is important to first state and understand the role of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ). The Constitution of Zambia, as well as the Bank of Zambia Act of 2022, which was passed just last year by this House, provides that the BoZ should focus on price and financial stability as their key mandates. Indeed, in the Bank of Zambia Act of 2022, emphasis is on the primacy of the price stability mandate.

Mr Speaker, let me inform the House that by price stability, we simply mean that the overall level of prices should increase at a moderate pace over time and financial system stability, we mean that the financial sector institutions should be able to carry out their functions of looking after savings of individuals and providing credit for those business and households looking to invest in the economy. The legislative framework under which the BoZ operates also enhanced autonomy on the institutions so that the BoZ is able to make decisions without undue influence from the vagaries of political cycle especially during times of elections.

Mr Speaker, the framework we have adopted in Zambia is that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning provides inflation targets to the BoZ, which is, currently, to ensure that inflation is within the six to eight per cent band by the end of the year. The BoZ then uses the instruments at its disposal to achieve the target. From 2012, when the BoZ adopted a new policy framework, the key tool has been the adjustment of the Monetary Policy Rate to signal changes in monetary policy. In fact, most countries in Sub-Saharan African have adopted this framework of using a policy rate rather than directly targeting money supply or more precisely, high powered or reserve money which consists of cash outside the banking system as well as commercial bank deposits held with BoZ.

Mr Speaker, other countries that use the policy rate framework include South Africa, Uganda, Kenya and Nigeria amongst others. However, for this framework to work very well, it requires a mature or well-developed financial sector which is not usually the case for developing countries. It is for this reason at the monetary policy tools for our economies still include the use, from time to time, of the direct influence of monetary aggregates through adjustments in the statutory reserve ratios for example.

What is the Statutory Reserve Ratio?

Mr Speaker, aStatutory Reserve Ratio is a percentage of commercial banks deposits that banks are obligated to hold in the statutory reserve accounts at the BoZ. This percentage is applicable on Kwacha and foreign currency deposits placed with commercial banks by the general public, the Government and non-residents. The Statutory Reserve Ratio in Zambia is 11.5 per cent following the upward adjustment of 2.5 per cent points that was effected on 13th February, 2023.

Why is it necessary to make adjustments to the Statutory Reserve Ratio?

Mr Speaker, statutory reserve ratios are important tocentral banks to use, manage and control liquidity in the economy, as well as money supply and the cost of credit. Since commercial banks loans are generated from deposits which ultimately influence man supply and interest rates, imposing reserve ratio requirements affects funds available to banks to provide loans and ultimately assistscentral banks control inflation. In this regard, the BoZ adjusts the Statutory Reserve Ratio upwards to reduce available loanable funds and downwards to increase loanable funds. It should be noted that, unlike adjustment in the MonetaryPolicyRate, which will induce an automatic adjustment in the lending rates that are tied to the monetary policy rates, adjustments in the Statutory Reserve Ratio do not imply an automatic adjustment in interest ratesunless banks move to protect their profit margins.

Mr Speaker, adjustments to the statutory reserve ratios have been done on several occasions in Zambia. I have a long list here of when this was done, but probably, there is no need of referring to that.

Mr Speaker, other countries have used the statutory reserve ratios for the following reasons:

  1. macro prudential to ensure banks hold a certain amount of liquidity as a buffer should depositors wish to withdraw their funds;
  2. monetary control to impact growth in credit and interest rates growth;
  3. liquidity management, this can help the central banks to sterilise excess liquidity;
  4. reserve requirements differentiated by currency have also been used to reduce the dollarisation of the financial system; and
  5. reserve requirements have also been used as a capital management tool to control a surge in foreign capital inflows.

Expected Benefits

Mr Speaker, the upward adjustment in the minimum Statutory Reserve Ratio to 11.5 per cent from 9 per cent was aimed at safeguarding the stability of the domestic foreign exchange market in order to minimise the potential adverse impact of the recent sustained exchange rate depreciation pressure on the inflation outcome. It is envisaged that by effectively managing the commercial banks available loanable funds, the BoZ would be able to constrain demand for the foreign exchange which ultimately, should result in reduced volatility in the exchange rate. The resulting stability in the exchange rate is critical in retaining macroeconomic stability.

Dealing with the Negative Effects, if any

Mr Speaker, there is recognition that the action by BoZ to raise the minimum statutory reserve ratios has inherent risks such as negatively impacting credit extension to the broader economy through increased borrowing costs. However, safeguarding the foreign exchange market, in light of the increased volatility in the exchange rate has far-reaching social and economic benefits which outweigh the perceived risk in the economy.

Mr Speaker, in addition, BoZ is working on other measures to support credit provision, especially to Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) through the establishment of the Credit GuaranteeScheme (CGS) should enable financial institutionsto lower the cost of credit to SMEs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Mr Speaker, I was following the responses from the hon. Minister and he is saying that this measure to increase the statutory reserve ratio and the monetary policy by 2.5 per cent is meant to deal with the volatility regarding the exchange rate. We agree with him because we know that as we speak, the Kwacha is trading at K20 to US$1.

Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister has said that this increment does not imply the increase in interest rates. That is not correct because everyone who has a loan facility including his civil servants has already been alerted by the banks.

Hon. PF Members: Even hon. Members.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I am told including all of us here. We have already been notified by our various banks that we must go and consent to the interest increment by this same percentage of the loan facilities that are sitting there. The cost of living has become unbearable for your workers and everyone in this country.

Mr Speaker, was thisthe perfect timing to implement this policy?If it was the perfect timing, what measureshas the ministry put in place to cushion the citizens of this country in these difficult circumstances?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, thank you very much and I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for that question.Indeed, a measure has been put in place because the exchange rates is deprecating. It is depreciating at a rate we do not like. The exchange rate is depreciating fast because of the excessive debt that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government left in place.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, let me explain because I hear there is an uproar from the other side because they do not understand the relationship between what they did to leave Zambia in unsustainable debt, the exchange rate and inflation. So, let me explain.

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for this point of order.

Mr Speaker, when Comrade Situmbeko Musokotwane, now hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning –

Mr Mufalali: There are no ‘comrades’ here!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: There are no ‘comrades’ in the House. Withdraw the word.

Mr Samakayi: This is not Angola!

Mr Mundubile: That is how I relate with him. Anyway, with Hon. Musokotwane, we relate as comrades, but since you have guided –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Withdraw the word ‘comrade’.

Mr Mundubile: Hon. Musokotwane –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, withdraw the word ‘comrade’.

Mr Mundubile: I have withdrawn the word ‘comrade’.

Mr Speaker, when Hon. Dr Musokotwane and his party were campaigning whilst in the Opposition, they campaigned on the basis that the Patriotic Front (PF) had borrowed and that they had solutions to the economy. They said that they had solutions to the indebtedness of the country …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Mundubile:  and that they were going to fix this economy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Ms Mulenga:Wanvela!

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, when they were making promises that the exchange rate would go down within hours of assuming office, ...

Hon. PF Members: 14 hours!

Mr Mundubile: ...it was with information that this country was indebted. Is the hon. Minister in order to, today turn around and pretend that they took over the Government without knowing how indebted this country was?

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, informing the people of Zambia that he has just realised that the assignment they signed for is actually bigger than they can handle today? Is that what he is confirming to this country, that they cannot handle this economy anymore?

Hon. Opposition Members! Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think the hon. Minister is not out of order.

To start with, you did not cite any breach. For a point of order to be admissible, you have to cite the breach, and it has to correlate ...

Hon. PF Members: 65!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: ... with what you are saying. You did not cite the breach. So, the hon. Minister is not out of order.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, thank you very much.

Mr Speaker, we are more than capable of dealing with the assignment.

Mr Mundubile: I do not think so!

Dr Musokotwane: Just listen patiently and carefully so that I explain to you how we are dealing with the assignment.

Mr Mabeta: Teach them!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I said that the current exchange rate problem is directly linked to the excessive debt, and I will come back to the issue of how we are dealing with the debt.

So, when we got into office, ...

Interruptions

Hon. Government Member: Order! Listen iwe!

Dr Musokotwane: ... we were very methodical about it.

Hon. Opposition Member:Mwaishilekwatakoinsoni!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we managed to secure assistance from the International Monetary Fund (IMF), which our colleagues failed in six years.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: On top of that, we managed to engage the creditors for negotiations. They gave us official support, which the PF Government failed to achieve. We are now at the verge of concluding the specific restructuring of the debt. We are discussing that issue, but we are not there because of the debt that the PF left behind.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, let me explain what is happening. Some of the people who buy Treasury Bills in Zambia, under normal circumstances, ...

Ms Mulenga: They only bought 800!

Hon. Government Member:Lenshina!

Dr Musokotwane: ... bring dollars from outside the country. They convert the dollars into Kwacha and then buy the Treasury Bills. That is what happens, if you did not know.

Mr Speaker, for others, when the Treasury Bonds mature, they take out the money. Roughly, on balance, it is always even.

Hon. Government Member: They cannot understand that!

Dr Musokotwane: So, on balance, it is always even; the money coming in to buy Treasury Bills and money goingout. It is roughly even. However, because of the uncertainty regarding the fact that we have not yet concluded, those who are bringing money into the country are a little bit hesitant. However, as I said, we are working very hard to make sure that the indebtedness that the PF left behind for us is solved. So, we are trying to resolve the exchange rate problem by raising the statutory reserve ratio. This is the problem that the PF left behind for us.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: It failed to do anything about it, Mr Speaker. So, we are solving the problem that it left behind.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, let us not forget one other thing. The instability that we are seeing in the exchange rate today is not anything new because it happened in the past. You remember how the exchange rate under the PF rose from K5 to K24? However, the more interesting point is this: They are saying why are you raising the Statutory Reserve Ratio and denying people money? Now, let me give you a catalogue of what they did themselves when they were in power to try to stabilise the exchange rate.

Mr Kampyongorose

iIterruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Government Member: Why are you scared!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let us not debate while seated.

Hon. Member: I think you should send them out.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Some of you want to raise points of order, but it is difficult for me to grant you because, whilst the hon. Minister is addressing your concerns regarding your questions, you are busy interrupting. So, it is difficult. You want to make my job difficult.

Mr Mabeta: Teach them!

Dr Musokotwane: They are saying, “Why are you raising the Statutory Reserve Ratio? You, the members of the United Party for National Development (UPND) are bad people.

Now, listen to this, Mr Speaker: On 5th November, 2011, when the PF was in the Government, it raised the Statutory Reserve Ratio from 5 per cent. In January, 2013, it increased the Statutory Reserve Ratio to 8 per cent and, in 2014, to 14 percent. In April, 2015, it increased it to 18 per cent.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Member:Masholi!

Dr Musokotwane: So, Mr Speaker, if they found it right to raise the Statutory Reserve Ratio, why are they, today, surprised when this Government also raises it?

Ms Mulenga: We are the same!

Dr Musokotwane: That is a lack of sincerity.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Rev: Katuta:Ekufilwauku!

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65.

Mr Speaker, I hope the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, is seeing what I am seeing. That is why I have risen on this very serious point of order.

Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister was trying to explain a very difficult situation which he finds himself in, a similar situation which ...

Hon. PF Member: He created!

Mr Chilangwa: ... he created when he was the hon. Minister of Finance under President Lupiya Banda –

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I just want to guide.  There are two things involved here. Firstly, you brought the President into your debate, which is not allowed.

Secondly, you know very well that we do not debate ourselves. So, you can go ahead, hon. Member.

Mr Chilangwa: Well guided, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister was trying to explain a very difficult situation. Earlier on, he alluded to the fact that he managed to secure a bailout from the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Indeed, there was jubilation, dancing and somersaulting that everything had been done. Lo and behold, in the same statement, he says we have not done it yet, we are still struggling. I am finding it difficult to make heads or tails of what he is trying to say.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in order to fail to explain clearly whether the US$1.3 billion bailout package has been secured or we are still struggling to put things together?

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister is not out of order because you did not cite any standing order –

Mr Chilangwa interjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: What did you say?

Mr Chilangwainterjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I did not hear you clearly. Maybe, you could rephrase your point of order.

Ms Kampamba: Rephrase your question! Hammer him and cite a standing order.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I said that I was rising on a very serious point of order. I quoted Standing Order No. 65 because it talks about content. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning spoke about having achieved the US$1.3 billion International Monetary Fund (IMF) bailout package. Later on, he said that they were trying to put things together to ensure that they secured that bailout package.

Is the hon. Minister in order to confuse himself in that particular manner?

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Member: You are confusing yourself.

Ms Kampamba: CEO!

Hon. PF Member: Our ruling IMF!

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think I heard the hon. Minister correctly on that point. Hon. Member, you are talking about a bailout plan and the hon. Minister spoke about renegotiating the debt. So, the two points are different. The hon. Minister talked about renegotiating the debt. He even mentioned that it is almost due to reach its logical conclusion and the hon. Member is talking about contracting the IMF deal. The two aspects are at variance.

So, the hon. Minister is in order.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi):Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the responses. It is very clear that our economy is going through a very difficult time. There is a cocktail of about two or three issues surrounding the movement of our interest rates. One of the issues is what the hon. Minister mentioned, which is the non-conclusion of the bailout plan or the debt relief plan. At the Group of Twenty (G20) Summit, the hon. Ministers of Finance could not conclude that issue. So, that has pushed our country backwards.

However, when I read the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) statement, it mentioned very clearly, that one of the reasons our exchange rate has become weak is because the mining sector is not performing well. Clearly, these are mines such as the Mopani Copper Mines and Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). We are also failing to mobilise resources from other mineral discoveries such as gold, which people are now stealing, to try and re-energise our mining sector.

Mr Speaker, we have enough natural resources in Zambia, if at all our mining sector, in terms of exploration can be enhanced. We have plenty of cases where someone is in a maize field and they find gold just by using a hoe. We have a recent case of the discovery of sugilite.

Mr Speaker, why is the Government failing to make use of the resources that we have in the country to turn this economy around? That rise in interest rates is an increase in the cost of living. The manufacturer will pass that cost on to us whether it is bread, bathing soap, or a soft drink. Why can the Government not make use of the plenty of resources that are available?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, indeed, Zambia has a lot of natural resources including those in mining. Of course, those resources being underground do not immediately give the Government the liquidity it needs. In other words, for the resources to be useful to us, someone has to mine, sell the minerals and then money comes through.

Hon. Government Member: Correct!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, to get that process started, there are two steps that should be taken. The first one is to revive the two key mining assets that have been limping. For that, I also want to remind the House that the two mining assets are limping because they were crippled by the colleagues who are there, the Patriotic Front (PF). They are the ones who crippled the mines.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

PF Members interjected.

Dr Musokotwane: So, having crippled the mines, it means that the amount of copper that is mined for sell is limited.

Mr Speaker, the second point is the issue of opening up new mines. We performed poorly in the last ten years. At the time the new mines were being opened in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), how many new mines opened in Zambia?

Hon. Government Member: Zero!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, instead of opening new mines as was happening in the DRC, we were closing down mines in Zambia. This meant that the amount of foreign exchange that we could earn was reducing. The responsibility of this Government is to correct the errors that our colleagues in the PF Government left. The hon. Minister of Mines and Mineral Resources is working very hard with our support to bring back Mopani Copper Mines and KCM.

Mr Speaker, the adjustments that we made to the incentives in the structure of mining in the country, as the hon. Member knows, within the first year of getting into office, US$1.5 billion was invested into mining in the North-Western Province. This is something that never happened in the last ten years. They were closing mines instead of opening new ones. So, where did they expect foreign exchange to come from?

Mr Speaker, I assure the hon. Member that we are working very hard and we are getting closer to reviving places like Kitwe, Mufulira, and all other mining towns because those mining assets will come back to life very soon. So, this is how foreign exchange should come into the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(1)(b).

Mr Speaker, firstly, I congratulate the hon. Minister, since he spoke about opening mines, for opening the new sugilite mine in Luapula Province.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kampamba: Ema sugilite!

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: My substantive point of order, Mr Speaker, is that the hon. Minister was given a specific question. I reminded him that in his long winding lecture, he had informed the House that the increase in the statutory reserve ratio does not imply an increase in interest rates. I gave an example of witnesses in the House who can attest to the fact that banks have already started sending notifications of adjusted loans repayment terms. So, clients are being requested to consent to the adjustments. So, what the hon. Minister is saying is not factual.

Mr Speaker, I asked the hon. Minister what measures the Government has put in place in order to cushion the citizens who are now failing to meet their domestic needs as a result of the escalating cost of living. That was my question, but he decided to veer off. Was he in orderto avoid my question which was very clear and go back to history?

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:Hon. Member, as regards to your point of order, it is difficult for me tomake a ruling on it.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:Order!

You have debated your point of order.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: This should be a lesson to all of you hon. Members.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:When you rise on a point of order, be precise or to the point. If you debate your point of order, it will beinadmissible. That is my ruling.

May the hon. Member for Kamfinsa continue.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, last week, I rose on an urgent matter of public importance. When I rose on that urgent matter of public importance, I raised a specific issue on that particular day. The issue I raised attracted the attention of Madam Speaker and she guided that I should put in a written question, and I submitted a written question. In that written question, I asked the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning as follows:

  1. if the Government was aware that the two decisions by the Bank of Zambia approved by the Government have impacted on the citizens; and
  2. what measures the Government was taking.

Mr Speaker, the questions were very clear. If the hon. Minister avoids answering the substantive questions, we will be reluctant to submit written questions. There are specific questions that the public out there wants answers for, and there is a reason I submitted that written question.

Mr Speaker, Standing Order No. 76 allows me to ask two questions. So, let me ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning my first follow-up question. In the third quarter of 2022, the Government spent US$333 million to cushion the effects of the exchange rate, and in the fourth quarter, which was the last three months of 2022, it spent US$443 million to cushion the exchange rate. The hon. Minister indicated that one of the reasons the Government has taken these steps is to control the volatility of the exchange rate. Having spent these huge sums of money, US$333 million and US$443 million, was there need for the Government to approve the increase in the statuary reserve ratio and in the monetary policy rate when it already spent many millions of dollars to try and control the exchange rate? That is my first follow-up question.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, it does help to ask precise questions. However, when the Questioners wonder all over the place, we are also forced to respond to some of the side line issues that they raise. The questions that have been asked are specific and I will answer them specifically. However, let me start with the issue that Hon. Kampyongo raised. He asked if the Government was not aware of the fact that interest rates have been influenced upwards because customers are receiving notifications. Here, we must distinguish between two things. There are two actions that are being discussed here. The first one is the increase in the Statutory Reserve Ratio, and the Statutory Reserve Ratio measure that was taken has no bearing on the interest rates that customers pay. However, the other measure that was taken, namely the change in the Indicative Interest Monetary Policy Rate, has an impact on the lending rates or interest rates in general. So, the answer is very specific. The Statutory Reserve Ratio has no impact on the interest rates, but the Indicative Interest Monetary Policy has an impact on the people.

Mr Speaker, once again, it is important to say that the adjustments to the rates that we are talking about are standard policy tools that exist in all the central banks in the world. The Bank of England sometimes increases the rates and, sometimes, it lowers them. The European Central Bank sometimes lowers the rates and, sometimes, it increases the rates. In South Africa, sometimes they increase the rates and, sometimes, they lower the rates. So, there is nothing strange at all. There is nothing strange in adjusting the rates either way or another. It is something that happens all over the world.

Mr Speaker, the rates have been increased primarily because of the depreciation of the exchange rate. The depreciation of the exchange rate is the one that has been the main driver for adjusting the rates upwards. The Questioner said the Government already spent so much dollars to intervene, why was it necessary to do some more? The simple reason is that the other measures of direct intervention or direct sales of dollars have not been enough, in light of the excessive pressure caused by excessive external borrowing. So, the measures the hon. Member talked about were not enough. Therefore, it became necessary that we put additional measures in place to help stabilise the exchange rate.

Mr Speaker, this matter can be likened to our houses. We do not want water all over the house. We do not want water in the bedroom and on the floor of the kitchen. However, if you saw your house is catching fire, you would get the water that you would not want to be all over the place, to quench the fire. Normally, you do not like your house to be wet, but when there is a fire, you need the water to quench the fire.

Mr Speaker, in this case, even as much as we sympathise with the fact that interest rates are painful, we need that to quench the fire of exchange rate getting out of control. So, between the discomfort of interest rates going up and the discomfort of the exchange rate getting wild, the Government is of the opinion, and I think the people of Zambia agree, that the most important thing that we need to deal with now is to stabilise the exchange rate. So, it is a matter of balancing out. I hope that I have answered the hon. Member’s question more precisely because his question was also precise.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, I will remain very specific with my questions because they are not about the 156 hon. Members of Parliament here but for the people out there who are waiting for answers. They want to hear what the Government has to state on very specific questions.

Mr J. E Banda:Point of Order, Sir.

Mr Kang’ombe: I hope you will ignore that point of order so that I am allowed to ask a very important question.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised. Let’s hear his point of order.

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving the good people of Petauke an opportunity to raise a point of order. My point of order is on Standing Order 57(1). It is very clear that a member can only speak when called upon by the presiding officer. We come here for serious business and not to joke around. The people outside are watching and are expecting good results from this House. Is the hon. Member for Munali in order to speak without being called upon yet he has the communication device that he can just press to indicate to speak and represent his people in the constituency rather than just opening his mouth and passing running commentaries. People are waiting to hear the results from our discussions in here and not the jokes. Some of us have left our businesses and families to come and work, but some people like the hon. Minister of –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Member.

Let me guide. This is a very important House; certainly, it is not a joking parlour. Let us be serious. The issue on the Floor of the House is one that many Zambians would love to listen to. It has a lot of substance in it. The question that the hon. Member has asked has a lot of substance. The corporate world wants to listen to the answer. So, let us try to weigh the unnecessary interjections and see if they are of any merit.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Kang’ombe: Mr Speaker, my second question in line with Standing Order 76. I refer the hon. Minister to the written questions. The first one is whether the Government is aware and the hon. Minister responds that the Government is aware and in his response the Minister of Finance and National Planning said the steps are necessary to control the exchange rate. That is what I have picked. He has not answered the second question in very simple and clear terms. What measures are being taken to cushion the impact of the decisions on the general citizenry. If there are no measures, the Hon. Minister should state that there are no measures to cushion the impact on the people. If there are measures, he should state or list them as one, two, or three. I want to find out from the Minister of Finance and National Planning what measures the Government is taking to cushion the impact of the exchange rates on the people. The exchange rate was above K16 to a dollar. Despite all the measures the government is taking to cushion the impact of the exchange rate on the general citizenry, putting in dollars and increasing the statutory reserve ratio, the exchange rate is still going up. Despite increasing the monetary policy ratio, the exchange rate is still going up. Meaning, there are no steps being taken to cushion the impact. So, I want this question to be answered in the simplest form so that the teachers out there, the police officers the general public who have borrowed money can have an answer from this conversation.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, yes, the exchange rate is not yet stabilised in spite of the intervention of the dollar sales by the BoZ onto the market and the adjustment of the two monetary ratios Let me repeat; the reason the exchange rate is not yet stabilised is because the major driver out of this, the debt situation left behind by the PF Colleagues, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: …even though we have made sufficient progress, we are not yet there. Now, it is also important to say this: The hon. Member said that there has been no impact, but please also think in the counterfactual that supposing there were no dollars that were offloaded onto the market by the BoZ, no adjustment to the ratios that we are talking about, would the exchange rate still be where it is today, depreciating as it is? The answer is ‘no’. The exchange rate would maybe have been at K30 to a dollar or something like that. Therefore, it is wrong to imply that because the interventions took place, changes in the ratio took place but the exchange rate is not yet appreciated or stabilised, and therefore, the measures are not working. They are working. In the absence of that, things would have been worse. It is very important that we understand that.

Mr Speaker, coming back to his specific question concerning the measures taken, the whole essence is to put pressure or apply brakes on the demand for dollars, whether one is travelling and they need dollars or for whatever reason. So, if the hon. Member is talking about cushions, there are no immediate cushions. The cushions will come when the situation stabilises and therefore we begin to unwind. The reason the measures were put in place was to apply brakes on the system. It has to be like that; it has to bite; if I must be blunt. The biting is what will bring stability. I hope I am very clear in my statement.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I will give chance to the hon. Member for Chinsali and the hon. Member for Chienge to ask questions and then we will conclude and move to the next question.

Mr Mukosa:Mr Speaker, could he kindly give us an illustrative explanation of how the revision of the statutory reserve ratio helps in stabilising the exchange rate.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, thank you so much for granting me this point of order, which is premised on Standing Order No. 65. It is on the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, I was hoping that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning would contest the assertion by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kantanshi that the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) was categorical when it stated that the Kwacha was depreciating because of the non-performance of mines, which issue is not contained in the hon. Minister’s statement and responses. The hon. Minister is contending that the reason is the debt which the Patriotic Front (PF) left, which debt the Government is not even making coupon payments towards.

Mr Speaker, is he in order to accept two positions; one from him and one from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kantanshi without clarifying which position the nation should understand and which position we must carry as hon. Members.

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Thank you. The hon. Minister should have looked at the bigger picture, weighed the two and looked at which picture outweighs the other. He settled on the position that the current bleeding of the Government coffers with debt as –

Mr Kafwayainterjected.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I am making a ruling and then you are contesting it. You want to be the judge and the jury again.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: So, the hon. Minister is not out of order. Let us proceed. The hon. Member who was on the Floor may continue.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, thank you very much. I am really taken aback by that question because I thought this is what we have been discussing this afternoon. This is precisely what we have been discussing this afternoon. There are two things that you can do to stabilise the exchange rate. One, is of course, to provide more dollars in the system. This is why BoZ in the provision of foreign exchange, has been selling dollars, okay. That is what he was referring to.

On top of that, and relating to what Hon. Kafwaya just said, it helps when there are more dollars coming out of the mining sector because they go to the BoZ and the intervention can be done. However, I also said very clearly a while ago that the mines that were closed under their Government have made it hard for those dollars to be available. These were two big mines. One was producing about 300 metric tonnes and another one was producing maybe 150 metric tonnes. All that output has been lost because of the problem that was created in the mining sector. I explained that. That is as far as the supply of dollars on the market is concerned.

Mr Speaker, the other thing that you need to know is that access to dollars can be constrained by the sort of measures that we are talking about, such as making credit a little less available but not totally shut. The measures are the changes in the statutory reserve ratio and increasing the BoZ rate by making the Kwacha expensive because you need it to buy dollars. Dollars are not obtained for nothing. You need Kwacha to buy dollars. So, if access to the Kwacha is made a little harder because it is a bit more expensive to borrow, then again you are helping to stabilise the exchange rate. I hope I have made the situation clear now.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: It seems this issue is quite topical. Maybe, the last two hon. Members to ask questions will be the hon. Member for Chama North and the hon. Member for Kankoyo. The hon. Member for Chienge will ask first and then she will be followed by the two.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I have been listening to the responses of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on the reason we have this situation. He referred to the Patriotic Front (PF) overborrowing. The PF left the economy of this country in a mess.

Mr Speaker, when we were debating the Budget last year, he brought a borrowing plan to this House which showed that this Government had borrowed about K6 billion in one year. I would like to find out the kind of borrowing it is. I believe the PF borrowed in ten years and now in one year plus, we have a Government which has borrowed K6 billion plus. Is that not careless borrowing?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question. It is not careless borrowing; it is careless misrepresentation of facts. Where did she get K6 billion from? I never announced anything like that.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members:Waonamanje!

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, thank you. I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65.

Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister was responding to my question, he acknowledged that revising the statutory reserve ratio is going to result in the Kwacha being more expensive. This has an effect on the cost of borrowing or the interest rate. This contradicts the answer that he provided to Hon. Kampyongo when he said the statutory reserve ratio has no bearing whatsoever, on the interest rate.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in order to mislead this House and the nation at large in the way he is addressing the questions that we are asking him?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think the hon. Minister will attend to that as he responds to the next question. The hon. Member on the Floor may continue, that is, the hon. Member for Chama North.

Hon. PF Members: It is the hon. Minister!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No. The hon. Minister already responded.

Hon. PF Members: No! He did not finish!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No. The hon. Minister already responded to the hon. Member for Chienge. The hon. Member for Chama North may continue.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, thank you –

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Your point of order is not granted. Resume your seat.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: It is not granted. Resume your seat, hon. Member.

Mr Mtayachalo: Mr Speaker, this morning, the president of theCivil Servants and Allied Workers Union of Zambia (CSAWUZ) was lamenting the increase in the monetary policy rate, taking into account that civil servants are highly indebted. What measures is the hon. Minister putting in place to engage financial institutions on behalf of civil servants so that there can be an extension in terms of repayment of loans?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mtayachalo: Mr Speaker, the Civil Servants Allied Workers Union of Zambia(CSAWUZ) today issued a media statement, where it lamented that the increase in the Monetary Policy Rate is going to bring a lot of financial challenges on the civil servants because most of them are highly indebted. As a caring Government, does it have any plans to engage financial institutions to, maybe, extend repayment periods to minimise the negative impact the increase in the Monetary Policy Rate is going to create on the working class?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member diverted a bit from the question, but maybe you can just shed light on it.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the question is specific. Yes, we can do so to see what kind of relief the lending institutions can provide. However, the hon. Member should also remember that the whole essence of increasing rates, unfortunately, is to make the availability of money a little bit harder. As I said earlier on, not total exclusion of money, but a little bit tighter. This is how it works, but all the same, it is possible to engage the lending institutions to see what kind of changes they can make to make the lives of the borrowers more tolerable.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, allow me tofirst understand the question we have been addressing. In my own understanding, I am trying to pick up the situation as: What we have in Zambia is an economy which is bleeding or has an infection, which is the debt hence, causing exchange rate fluctuations or the depreciation of the kwacha. The economy is sick. 

Mr Speaker, when are we likely to have this permanent operation on debt restructuring so that we stop treating the illness with pain killers; pushing in more dollars and increasing the interest rate?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, as we have said over and over, when we came in, we embraced the view that we needed to come out openly to admit that we have a debt crisis, and resolve it. Since that time, we have taken all the steps that are required by the creditors in order for them to be able to give us the debt relief. On our side, we have done everything, but obviously, we are still at a point where we have to do the last minute negotiations with them. So, I cannot put a timeline to it. All I can do is hope, as we have said before. This is nothing new. Hopefully, by the end of the first quarter of this year, or there about,we can reach agreement. Take plus or minus some time.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

PLANS TO CONSTRUCT A DISTRICT HOSPITAL IN CHIPILI DISTRICT

179. Mr Chala (Chipili) asked the Minister of Health:

  1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a district hospital in Chipili District;
  2. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
  3. what the cost of the project is; and
  4. if there are no such plans, what the reasons are.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct district hospitals in all districts that do not have any first level hospitals, including Chipili District.

Mr Speaker, the plans to construct district hospitals will be implemented after completing the ongoing construction works of all outstanding health facilities; health posts, health centres and district hospitals.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost will only be established after the best evaluated bidder is awarded.

Mr Speaker, as I stated earlier, the Government has plans to construct district hospitals. Therefore, part (d) of the question falls off.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chala: Mr Speaker, the question is specifically on Chipili and not any other district. I want the hon. Minister to assure the people of Chipili on when the Government is going to construct a district hospital. Does it have any plan for this year or next year? That is what I wanted to hear from the hon. Minister, so that I could dance.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I responded. Whilst I included other districts, I talked about Chipili in particular. I told the hon. Member that it will not just be in Chipili, but in a number of other districts; I think they are about thirty districts that are supposed to have district hospitals constructed. That number includes Chipili. If the hon. Member cared to look at the plan, the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP), it is indicated there.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think you have heard. You can dance now.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central a chance to ask a follow-up question on behalf of the good people of Chipili.

Mr Speaker, the people of Chipili want to know when exactly, the Government is going to build a hospital in Chipili. Is it this year, next year, 2026 or when?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Although the hon. Minister has already answered that question, she can give the hon. Member a bonus answer.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I think, the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central has an issue with me. Maybe, let me just use this opportunity to say that yesterday, when I was on the Floor, he kept disturbing my line of thought. He called for a point of order three times and I got irritated and said, “Where is Dora Siliya?”

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I just want to say that I retract that statement because he felt very offended. He felt that maybe, I was undermining his authority. I take him as my young brother. I normally say such things to him but this time around, he did not take it well. So, I retract the comment I made.

Mr J. E. Banda: Thank you and you are welcome.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta: That is the spirit!

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, currently, we have incomplete infrastructure countrywide.  When we were approving our Budget for this year, we did indicate that the Government’s intention, mainly for this year, was to finish the projects that were incomplete. If we finish this exercise for example, end of next year or mid-year, we will then, start looking at the thirty districts hospitals.

Mr Speaker, as the ministry, we have agreed that we will work on our strategic plan so that hon. Members of Parliament can see where they stand. This will enable them also, to plan with their communities. However, the fact still remains that the thirty hospitals will be constructed in the newly established districts. In the Eighth National Development Plan (8NDP) and even in our current strategic plan for 2022-2026, we have indicated that the thirty districts will be catered for. 

Now, Mr Speaker, we are also looking at changing the model of implementation. The construction of those district hospitals in the thirty-six districts started in 2013 and up to now, they are still under construction. So, we want to change the model of implementation. We would rather have a situation where we do not construct using phases. We want a situation where we will construct a hospital in a particular district and only move to another district when we have finished constructing the first one. Littering unfinished structures all over is not a good idea because the quality of infrastructure begins to deteriorate. So, we will come back here and inform the hon. Members in a clearer way.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubozya(Chifubu): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chifubu an opportunity to ask a question. The hon. Minister has stated that new district hospitals will be constructed where incomplete hospitals have been finished. Is there a timeframe in which the incomplete health posts and district hospitals will be completed so that we know when construction of the new ones will commence?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, sometimes, we say things on the Floor of the House depending on what is happening in other districts. So, there are some district hospitals, for example, which are under construction and their completion periods are different. So, sometimes, that confuses some colleagues when they hear that for example, a hospital that was being constructed in Mfuwe District or Mambwe District has been handed over. These hospitals are at different stages. Therefore, I cannot give the hon. Member a list of those hospitals off the cuff. I think the hon. Member will require to file in a question so that I can come with a specific answer.

Mr Speaker, suffice it to say that as we keep moving, there is good will. In some of the trips that the President is making, there is good will. There is also good will in the Ministry of Health. We are hoping that along the way, within the strategic period from 2022-2026, we will have plans for support. In some instances, we only take those that come with grants. For example, the Japanese Government has come up with a grant for constructing or upgrading the two health centres on the Copperbelt. I think, one will be in Mushili and another in Kitwe. I cannot just remember the name of the area in Kitwe.

Mr Chala: Chipili?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I said Mushili in Ndola, not Chipili. In Kitwe, I have just forgotten the name of the area but it starts with the letter “C”. When such hospitals are constructed through a grant of US$40 million, they only take six to nine months to be completed. The hospitals that are constructed by the Government are in phases. For example, in Kawambwa, a big hospital that was being constructed there is incomplete. In Milenge, there is a hospital that is incomplete but operational. It is untidy and we want to get away from that way of doing things. It is better we finish constructing one hospital and start another one.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Mr Speaker, I have withdrawn my question. I will see the hon. Minister at her office.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Menyani Zulu (Nyimba): Mr Speaker, I have listened to the answers given to the people of Chipili by the hon. Minister of Health.  The hon. Minister will agree with me that we have a backlog of incomplete hospitals. Some of them are called hospitals even when there is just an administration block.  The plans that the Government has for Chipili will not come to implementation today or tomorrow.

Mr Speaker, I am asking this question because it falls under the Ministry of Health.  When does the hon. Minister think she will send contractors to hospitals that are still not complete? The hon. Minister may agree with me that assurances were made early last year that incomplete structures would be completed. In Nyimba, I was told that the hospital would be completed in June last year but this is March, 2023 and we have not seen people on site. When is the ministry going to start sending contractors on site to reduce on the backlog of uncompleted hospitals by constructing a hospital for the people of Chipili?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I see that the hon. Member for Nyimba is trying to draw my attention to Nyimba. I am fully aware of the situation in Nyimba. The good news is that they should just give us time and things will work. Just give us time and trust us.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chala: Mr Speaker, I have been going to the hon. Minister’s office over the same issue but we have never met. It is either she is busy or in a meeting, but I have been seeing other officers. When I go to an office and I do not find the person I am looking for, I see other officers. For example, I have been to the hon. Minister of Local Governmentand Rural Development’s office, but I saw the Permanent Secretaries. So, I have been going to the hon. Minister’s office. However, I do not want to talk about the information I have. I just want to find out from the hon. Minister if there are donor agencies who can support the construction of the district hospital as at now, apart from the two mini-hospitals which will be constructed elsewhere, not in Chipili, so that they can consider my constituency. If the hon. Minister promises me that they will construct the hospital, I will go and tell my people to prepare drums so that we dance together.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I do not want to give the hon. Member a date because then, he will come and say that I said June. We will have to sit down and look at the resources that we have this year. This year compared to last year, we have more resources and it is possible to finish some of the hospitals that are under construction like the one in Nyimba and the others; I think about thirty-six hospitals are being constructed countrywide. So, we will do our best within this year’s budget to ensure that we finish some of them this year.

Mr Speaker, in the second half of next year, we are supposed to start constructing thirty district hospitals in the newly established districts. Now, as to which one of the thirty will be the first and last, I cannot say. I do not want to just decide without looking at other factors, for example, population and how many other health facilities are in a community other than the district hospital, so that we are seen to be doing things that will help the entire country at the same time. So, just give us time. We will come back with the information after analysing and considering the thirty areas in the newly established districts. So, if Chipili will be number one on the list, then it will be easy for me to say, we will start with Chipili in the second quarter of next year. Otherwise, I cannot specifically say that now.

Mr Speaker, like I have said, the good will is there. For example, I already mentioned the Japanese. There are other donors, and I am also consulting the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Like I said, the past Government dealt with development in an imbalanced way. So, we are trying to make sure that we now look at the whole country. Even if this imbalance was tutored to a particular province, you will find that in that province, some districts were completely left out, and other districts got much more than what they required. So, we have to be very careful so that everyone sees the balance. As Minister, I will not have to explain, but the document will explain itself. Today, I am Minister, and tomorrow, there will be somebody else. So, it is important that as Minister, I balance development so that even when I am out of office, nobody will come here and say that I was biased. I have no business with being biased because I am Minister for Zambians and all the 116 districts, and I care for everybody. So, just hold on and wait. Give us time because we want to do things properly.

Mr Speaker, it is the truth. You will find that in a ministry, things went to where the Minister, the officers, the director or the Provincial Head of Department (PHD) come from. That was the kind of development that we saw. This evening, this House will be debating the values and principles of governance in general. The President is very clear; he wants the 20 million plus citizens of this country to be serviced equitably. As a member of the Cabinet, if I am worth my salt, I must respect the one who put me in this position. I am not acting as Minister Masebo; I am acting on behalf of Mr HH (Hakainde Hichilema). He has a vision and I have to toll that line. So, I will not go away from that line. There will be mistakes because I am only human. However, my colleagues both on the right and left are free to come and talk to me and help me, because I cannot be everywhere. Sometimes, I might not really know what is really happening in a particular area.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: I may decide to give Kaputa a hospital as opposed to Chipili because the hon. Member for Kaputa has been pushing. Considering how the hon. Member for Chipili is pushing, naturally, I will start with Chipili because the hon. Member for Chipili has been making noise and I do not want that noise to continue. In the process, I might make a mistake because another constituency or district which really deserves more than Chipili might come up. That is why we must sit down and study the population and neighbourhood, and do things in a logical and methodical manner.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

IMPROVED SUPPLY OF ESSENTIAL DRUGS TO HEALTH FACILITIES IN KALABO DISTRICT

180.Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Health when the Government will improve the supply of essential drugs to health facilities in Kalabo District.

Mrs Masebo:Mr Speaker, the Government has put in place measures to improve the supply of essential drugs to public health facilities countrywide, including Kalabo District. The House may wish to note that the Government, through the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA), has made procurements for essential medicines valued at more than K500 million currently, and deliveries have commenced.

Mr Speaker, key essential medicines such as antibiotics, pain killers and the rest, which were lowly stocked, are being delivered within this week to facilities in the Western Province, and Kalabo will benefit from the distribution of essential medicines. I want to state thatI am aware that this exercise is being done in other provinces like the North-Western and the Northern or Muchinga, if not Luapula, sorry if I am mistaken, and I was told that this week, they will be in the Western Province.

Further, the House may wish to note that the Government is committed to improving the availability of essential medicines, and at the end of the first quarter or the beginning of the second quarter of 2023, we will get what we call centre kits. Last year, we ordered 42,000 health centre kits and we hope that part of that consignment will start coming in at the end of the first quarter and at the beginning of the second quarter.With that, we hope that there will be some improvement. We are also getting bulk procurements from countries such as Egypt. We also have some arrangements with other United Nations (UN) agencies to support us since they already have confirmed consignments, which they have ordered. So, we are trying to enter into an arrangement with them. Other than that, we are having some long-term framework contracts for the supply of essential medicines and medical supplies. The good news is that the New Dawn Government’s desire is that we should start encouraging new investors into the sector to be able to begin to produce most of the essential drugs so that we reduce on money flight out of the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Rev. Katuta: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about the procurement of essential medicines. Most of the time when she talks about the procurement of essential medicines, I always wonder why we leaves out essential medicines for people who have mental challenges. The medicine they use is very expensive. Why is it that our Government is not also putting this as a priority because mental illness is also just a disease like any other disease?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, it is actually true that for some time now, the mental departments of our hospitals have had very low drug stock for those with mental cases. What we have done, specifically, as a ministry is to deliberately make a special order for the hospitals to cover those with such challenges. So, we hope that with the orders that have been placed, the specialised drugs for mental cases will be in the country within a short period.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I interacted with the Kalabo District Medical Officer. He indicated that they are distributing essential drug kits for health centres. However, my question is: What will be the frequency of supply of the kits to the centres, knowing that we are coming from a time where the centres totally had nothing. It seems the supply is going to be the start. So, how frequently will the centres be receiving the kits?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for confirming that the drugs are currently being distributed in the province and in his district. Let me say that I think for the last four months or so, the last report in the last two months that the ministry has received from the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMMSA) is to the effect that at the moment, it has kind of stabilised the frequency of distributing drugs countrywide. Whereas in the past, in a year, it could do two or three deliveries, but in this regard, it has already passed the fifth delivery. They think that they will reach six deliveries. According to its report, it wants to maintain six deliveries at a time. So, we hope that it can stabilise. However, we know that to stabilise supplies is not about how many times one delivers but about what quantities one is delivering.

Mr Speaker, what we have found out is that in an effort to build capacity where information is concerned, ZAMMSA is getting to a point where it is reviewing the data which it is using because the data it is using is old. When it sends drugs, it thinks that the population will use the drugs for a month or two, but within three weeksthe drugs meant for two months are already depleted.

Mr Speaker, there are three things here; either the disease burden has increased, the population has increased or the thefts that we continue to hear about. Actually, a number of some of our health workers are being arrested. At least that is pleasing. Even from the Western Province, we have received several reports of theft of drugs in some districts. I think it is Kalabo, in particular, where there was theft, if I am not mistaken. So, we are also looking at how we can reduce the theft of drugs.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) is doing everything possible to build on its capacity, and ZAMMSA, the ministry and the hospitals are doing everything possible to see how best they can improve.

Sir, we will stabilise the supply chain once we get the bulk drugs that we are waiting for from Denmark through Missionpharma, the institution that once upon a time when I was hon. Minister of Health, I think in 2008 or 2009, around that time, used to supply drugs. However, by the time we took over, we discovered that Missionpharma had left because the then Government was unable to pay them on time. So that is the disruption in as far as centre kits in particular, are concerned. So, we brought Missionpharma back. We have had to pay them what was owed to them all the past years and because of that payment, they were able to agree to supply us. So, that is one of the 42,000 kits that we are waiting for.

Mr Speaker, if we can get those kits at the end of the first quarter, then we can talk about stabilising because the centre kits constitute maybe 85 per cent of the needs at the lower level. That is the health centres and health posts. So, if we can get that stock in-country, I can 100 per cent guarantee that we will stabilise supplies at that level, but we would still remain with the big hospitals and the tertiary hospitals such the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) and the like. We are now attempting to get drugs from countries such as Egypt because it is nearer. The prices are affordable and the quality is good. We are also considering India and looking at big companies.

Mr Speaker, those are the places we are opening up to for immediate action to help stabilise the situation. However, in the mid-term to long-term plan, we are looking at establishing the local industry and supporting it. We are hopeful that with the European Union (EU) deal with Zambia, where we have EU manufacturers that have capacity, the knowhow and the resources to invest and partner with Zambian manufactures in the shortest period of time, Zambia will stop importing at least to some level. If we can get Zambia to locally produce over 70 per cent to 80 per cent and only import 10 per cent, I think we would be saying that we are able to stabilise to 100 per cent.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, allow me to sympathise with the hon. Minister. I have seen that she has some physical challenge as she stands in the Housetoday, and she is obviously being stressed.

Mr Speaker, my question to the hon. Minister of Health concerns the delivery of medical kits. In his speech during the Official Opening of the Second Session of the Thirteenth National Assembly, the President gave an assurance that some medical kits would be delivered before the end of 2022.

Mr Speaker, are those the same kits the hon. Minister is referring to or the kits that the President spoke about last year were delivered? Is this another set that the hon. Colleague for Kalabo Central should be expecting in his district as well as in Shiwang’andu?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, it was not last year as such, it was a speech during the Official Opening of the National Assembly which gave rise to the 2023 National Budget where he talked about the procurement of the 42, 000 health centre kits which would last one year. It is a bulk purchase. That is the one.

Mr Speaker, because it is bulky, to produce and transport the medical kits, especially that they are being imported from Europe, will take time. Those are the kits we said are supposed to come into the country by the end of the first quarter as we get into the second quarter. Furthermore, not all kits will be delivered at the same time because of the bulk nature, and issues of storage would come into play. However, about 7,000 of the 42,000 kits will be delivered first. Once that comes in, the rest of the order will start flowing, and before the 7,000 kits run out, we will receive the rest.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, I think the Government’s measures which are being undertaken have resulted in an improvement in the availability of drugs across the country in the recent past. However, I would like to get it right from the hon. Minister of Health by knowing when we are likely to receive the bulk order of medical kits from Egypt. I still believe that this intervention is going to change a lot of the supply chain challenges in the country.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, truth be told, our hope was that even as I speak now on the Floor, the issue of the consignment from Egypt would have been in the past tense. But as you know, we have pieces of legislation that are quite cumbersome. It is our hope that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will try to make amendments through the House to some of the laws that were put in place which are really causing us trouble in the procurement process. So, we were hoping that the drugs from Egypt would be in the country earlier than the Mission Pharma centre kits consignment. This is because it takes six weeks to deliver any item one imports from Egypt. However, we have been informed that we are to expect delivery of the drugs in the country by end of March or mid-April, although I am not sure as well. Until I get a clear roadmap from the ZAMMSA, I will not commit myself to an actual date.

Mr Speaker, we are hoping that those drugs should be delivered, and for sure, once we begin to receive the Mission Pharma centre kits and the bulk order from UNICEF and Egypt, we will see stable supply. Once we have the bulk purchases and all the kits in the country, when there is a reduction in stock, we can then fill up that reduction almost immediately with our local suppliers.

 

Mr Speaker, we have also had challenges with our local suppliers. Even when they have been given orders to supply medical kits, you find that the supply takes too long, and sometimes they fail to supply a hundred per cent of what they said they could supply.

Mr Speaker, because of the lengthy procurement procedures, you find that even at a time when a local supplier is finally given the contract to supply, the dollar-kwacha ratio would have changed. That in itself creates a problem because then the supplier would argue to say that when the bid for the order was submitted, the dollar was trading at K15 to US$1 and it is now trading at K20 to US$1 and so we must change the figures. That would mean restarting the whole process. So, there is a lot of work to be done. I think these are the things the President spoke about; unblocking some rigidities which are actually standing in our way. Even when we have the money, it just sits in the coffers, and the goods are nowhere to be seen.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

ELECTRIFICATION OF SECONDARY SCHOOLS IN KANCHIBIYA CONSTITUENCY

181. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Energy:

  1. when the electrification of secondary schools in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency will commence to facilitate the learning of information and communication technology subjects; and
  2. what has caused the delay in commencing the project.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) commenced the electrification of schools and other public institutions in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency. The project involved electricity supply to Kopa Primary school, Chief Kopa’s new palace, Kopa Day Secondary School, Kopa ZAWA campsite, and the surrounding areas.

Mr Speaker, the work involved the construction of 2658 km of 33kV overhead lines from the existing 33kV overhead lines in Kopa area and 15615km of 400V overhead lines.

Mr Speaker, the project was successfully completed in December, 2022, and technically commissioned on 22nd January, 2023. The value of the project which included material and labour was K 8,483,668.03.

Mr Speaker, there has been no delay in the commencement of the electrification project as stated in the repose to part (a) of the question. The Kopa 2021 Lot II Grid Intensification Project has been successfully completed and was technically commissioned. The project has over 400 beneficiaries which include 330 grass-thatched houses ready to be connected using already installed ready boards.

Mr Speaker, let me give a bit more information just for clarity. In the year 2020, REA conducted feasibility studies for the possible electrification of various public institutions and the surrounding areas in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency. The authority planned to implement the Kabinga Grid Extension Project at a total cost of K40,644,173.66. The project involves tapping power from Chalabesa Mission and constructing a total of 52.6 km of 33kV overhead grid lines to supply power to Chalabesa Day Secondary School, MuntuWatuka Community School, Kawama Primary School and Kabinga Rural Health Centre, Chief Kabinga’s palace, Kabinga Primary School, Kalulu Secondary School and surrounding areas. However, the project could not take off due to insufficient funds. The actual implementation of the project will be subject to the availability of funds.

Further, the following works have been done:

  1. Mutamba School is already connected to supply;
  2. Chakopo School is connected to supply;
  3. a quotation was issued for Chikakala School, amounting to K6,839.48 and is awaiting payment;
  4. Mikuba Secondary School is connected to supply; and
  5. a quotation was issued for Kanchibiya Basic School, amounting to K8,454.83 and awaiting payment.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, the question from the people of Kanchibiya to the hon. Minister of Energy was specific to the secondary schools in Kanchibiya. However, I am grateful that he has given bonus answers, of course, highlighting certain challenges.

Mr Speaker, Kanchibiya is made up four chiefdoms. Of the four, one called Kabinga has no access to electricity. That is the chiefdom for which the hon. Minister says the K40 million project could not be done and would be done when there is availability of funds.

Mr Speaker, that is a very big challenge because this is a chiefdom that holds so much potential. However, of the four chiefdoms, it is the only one without access to electricity, whatsoever.

Mr Speaker, I asked because when we look at the various Government policies; the Government Information Communication Technology (ICT) Policy; the Smart Zambia Institute and purposiveness behind its creation; the National Implementation Network for ICT; and the Smart Education Master Plan 2018 to 2028, all these policy frameworks envisage that ICT plays a critical role in the transformation of education delivery from traditional approaches to digital student centred delivery of education. The Transforming Education Summit (TES), the National Consultation Report, Section 6.4, page 33, shows the number of schools with internet, province by province. My question is tied to ICT vis-à-viselectricity and the role that ICT plays in ensuring quality education.

Mr Speaker, as at 2020, there were 10,900 schools. Of those, only 2,585 had internet connectivity. This is according to the 2020 Zambia Education Management System (EMIS) Report. My question then is tying electrification to ICT and quality education for students in Kanchibiya.

Mr Speaker, when we look at the secondary schools in Kanchibiya, some of them got quotations, but have not been connected. We have big schools like Kabinga Day Secondary School, John Mubanga Day Secondary Schools and Chewe Chimfwamba Day Secondary that do not have electricity. What is being done by the Government to ensure that electricity is supplied to these secondary schools to enhance ICT education?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, let us desist from debating. Let us just concentrate on questions. However, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya started debating. He enjoys.

Laughter

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, it a good question from Hon. Chanda. Fortunately, this year, there is an additional K156 million, which is drawn from all constituencies from the Constitutional Development Fund (CDF). So, we will ensure that one of the secondary schools that are in question is given priority and power connected.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I take advantage of this question to remind the hon. Minister that last week, when he was responding to my questions, you directed him to avail to us the special rates that will be applicable to our rural people so that the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), whose responsibility it is to ensure connectivity to our rural areas, remains relevant.

What connection fees will be applicable to the surrounding areas that he has mentioned, other than the schools in Kanchibiya Constituency? When is the hon. Minister going to avail to us, especially the rural hon. Members of Parliament, the special rates that he assured the hon. Speaker he was going to make available to us.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, let us stick to the questions and not take advantage of them. Let us just zero in and ask; to be precise, just what concerns Kanchibiya because this question is constituency based. Now, you are coming up with all sorts of mathematics, hon. Member.

May the hon. Minister respond.

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, we need to segregate high density and low-density areas. Rural areas are in the same category as low-density areas like Kabulonga. So, we are working on tariffs to separate high and low density in rural areas and high and low density in urban areas.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the ministry intends to use K1 million of our Constituency Development Fund (CDF) this year. May I know how many kilometres this K1 million connect in Kanchibiya? How many kilometres will be connected in Kanchibiya from the K1 million that the Government intends to get from the CDF?

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, it is not a question of using K1 million from Kanchibiya. It is K156 million which will be used in certain areas in each province. That is where this K156 million will be used. It is not picking K1 million from Kanchibiya and using it specifically for Kanchibiya. That is not what we are doing.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, my follow-up question to the good hon. Minister is: The chiefdom that is in dire need of electrification is the chiefdom called Kabinga. There is zero electricity in that chiefdom. According to the hon. Minister, the quotation came to about K40 million. In connecting the secondary schools, I submit and request the hon. Minister to consider prioritising Kabinga Day Secondary School because when he takes electricity there, he will take electricity to Kabinga Chiefdom.

Mr Kapala: Mr Speaker, this year, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) was given K760 million towards rural electrification with an additional K156 million. The hon. Member of Kanchibiya is talking about K40 million. If this is part of the strategic plan that will be implemented for Kanchibiya, this amount will be made available so that at least, one of the secondary schools can be electrified.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I stand on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65(1)(b). The hon. Minister, in his response, said that the rural areas such as Kabinga and Kopa are considered to be low density areas compared to Kabulanga. Is the hon. Minister in order to mislead this august House and the people of Kanchibiya by equating the people of Kabinga to the people in Kabulonga, Kudu Road?

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think the hon. Minister is in order.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: These are quantitative figures and it depends on how one looks at them. Maybe, they used a quantitative approach to arrive at that particular suggestion. So, it depends on how one looks at those figures. The hon. Minister has not been given an opportunity to explain himself. So, since the hon. Minister is in the Executive and he runs a ministry, it depends on the factors he is using to arrive at those figures. There should be parameters at any given research that one should use to arrive at certain things. So, if the hon. Member was part of the group that conducted the research or the people who looked at that audience, he would be able to ascertain the figures. Let us make progress.

_______

MOTION

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the President’s Speech which was delivered to this House, last Friday, 24th February, 2023. The President was seated in that very Chair. I bet it was in a different one, the orange one –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, he sat in the orange one.

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I am very conversant with this House. I heard what the President said when he delivered his speech. If it was not for the fact that when our hon. Colleagues on the right fail to provide leadership, we should step up and fill in the gap, I would have gone on the Floor of this House and torn the speech to pieces. However, I have elected to say I need to fill in the gaps, which we are seeing as our colleagues fail to provide that which they pleaded with the Zambian people that they would provide.

Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech, was unbelievably uninspiring. The President failed to engage the Zambian people. He had an opportunity for a change, to come out and provide that which the Zambian people are expecting of him. Unfortunately, he fell short of that.

Mr Speaker, I will deal with a few issues. I will start with one particular issue which the President spoke to. This is coming from the verbatim. The reason I am using both the actual speech and the verbatim is because the President pronounced certain things that were not in his original speech, but are contained in the verbatim.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

May the Leader of the Opposition turn off the microphone. It is disrupting the proceedings.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, on page 25 of the verbatim, the President said,

“With the changes we have made at the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and the establishment of dedicated courtrooms for economic and financial crimes case must now end in ninety days, not in two years or three years.”

Mr Speaker, this is what the President said. He has no jurisdiction to direct the Judiciary on how it runs its affairs. That is the hallmark of separation of powers. The President cannot direct the Legislature on the “dos” and “don’ts” because he will be overstepping. The President only has jurisdiction over the Executive. There, he can direct and do whatever he wants, but to step into the Judiciary and the Legislature, that, is not acceptable, and we will not support it. He must refrain from misdirection himself as he did on that particular day. The separation of powers is very clear. I think they need a workshop on that.

Mr Speaker, on page 20 of the President’s Speech, the President said,

“Our local communities are the gate-keepers for our natural resources. We have, therefore, embraced the paradigm of strong community involvement and partnership in the management of our natural resources.”

Mr Speaker, why did the President fall short of talking about the cancelled hunting concessions? There has been uproar because of the issues of hunting concessions, which were cancelled. We were expecting the President to come here and provide leadership to castigate those who were part and parcel of the flawed cancelled concessions so that our people who are beneficiaries of these concessions can have some peace and would be able to talk about and be happy.

Mr Speaker, the President went on to say that, in our fight against corruption, there shall be no sacred cows. Therefore, we urge every Zambian to uphold the integrity and denounce any form of corrupt practices. Indeed, the President was right, but why did he not go all the way through? We expected him to go out there and talk about a Council Chairperson in Luapula Province, who was involved in illegal mining. Instead of him getting the sentence or dealt with, he was rewarded with the position of Council Chairperson. Is that how the Government deals with corruption and illegal mining? The gentleman in question was involved in the illegal mining of sugilite. It is the only reason others would feel that if one is involved in the illegal mining of sugilite, they can be rewarded. So, we shall not be surprised, if other culprits involved in the illegal mining of sugilite are also rewarded.

Mr Speaker, I go further to page 13. On page 13 of the President’s Address, the President said as follows:

“In addition, the Government has set aside K156 million, from the CDF, to expedite rural electrification.”

Now, it has to be the Central Government that must decide what must happen to the CDF? What is the role of the CDF committees? This is highly irregular. This must not be allowed to happen and this will not be allowed to happen.

Mr Speaker, on page 12, the President said as follows:

“Our Government is addressing this situation ...”

The situation the President is trying to address –

Mr Munsanje: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Munsanje: Mr Speaker, thank you for your wonderful kindness. The hon. Member who is debating out of the confusion of being removed from his seat of secretary-general is talking about something that is not in the President’s Speech. The President never talked about sugilite. Can he withdraw that. He is out of order.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, let us avoid debating each other. You saying he is a former secretary-general may not sit very well though it could be true.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: So, let us desist from debating ourselves.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I totally agree. There are so many former secretary-generals and Members, and sooner than later, we shall have former hon. Ministers from the other side. So, it is a natural process. We shall have President Hakainde Hichilema very soon as a former president. So, that is a natural phenomenon.

Mr Speaker, the President spoke about overcrowded prisons and the furniture. Why was the President shy to say that his Government has built on what the Patriotic Front (PF) did? It constructed new prisons, and the duty of this Government is to take furniture there. What is wrong with admitting and acknowledging the great works that your colleagues have done? You cannot build this country to a great nation that you desire it to be if you do not acknowledge the foundations which were laid by those who have gone ahead of you.

Mr Speaker, on page 9, the President talked about patriotism. He spoke about protecting the interest of our country by addressing both internal and external security threats and maintaining peace and stability. Why did he not talk about the twenty-two Afghan runaways who were harboured in this country? That is his duty. The President must inform us; he must tell us that actually the Government is keeping some criminals who were chased from South Africa and Zimbabwe and now, they are within our boundaries. It is his responsibility to come and talk to us about such things. In fact, we are talking about morality and ethics. That is what the President must do. If the President does not do that, we shall step in and do it for him because it is our duty, especially as we prepare to take over the Government in the next thirty-six months.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for this opportunity to add a few words to the debate on the President’s Address.

Mr Speaker, Article 9(2) provides for the President’s Address to Parliament. It says as follows:

“The President shall once in every year, report to the National Assembly on the progress made in the application of the values and principles specified under this part.”

Mr Speaker, the operative word there is progress. The Constitution mandates the President to report progress. Sometimes, it is very difficult to do so. The Constitution is very clear; it says he must report progress. The question I have on the Floor is: What if there is no progress? What does the President do?

Mr Speaker, I know that many of us went through this report. It is an abbreviated report. It is a very short one.

Mr Speaker, if you look through you will see big spaces and the font is big, but still a very short report. It only goes to confirm one thing; there was very little progress that was made the past one year.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, I sympathise with the technocrats who had to write the report because they struggled to put the text together. There was nothing to write. They really struggled to put text together just to enable the President to come and deliver the report because the constitution says so. If you look at the national values and principles, there is morality and ethics. We were expecting too much from the President had he talked about morality and ethics, in the face of what has transpired.

Mr Speaker, the memories are fresh in the minds of the peopleof Zambia. We have had very questionable transactions under the Government. How was the President expected to deliver a speech on morality and ethics when the award of audit contracts to the Army and Defense Forces were given to friendly companies? How was the President going to talk about morality and ethics?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, there is procurement of fertiliser costing US$35 million and Government pays US$50 million and you expected the President to speak to morality and ethics on this Floor. How was he going to do that?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I think let us stick to the speech.

Mr Kapyanga: That is the speech.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: No, there are insinuations that you are making about fertiliser, which is not part of the speech. So, as we are debating let us stick to the speech. There is nothing that we can look at in the speech regarding the allegations you are making against fertiliser. So, let us just stick to the speech that was delivered on the Floor of the House.

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, I am really constrained but I will say this: When we are talking about morality and ethics, we are looking at how Government has performed …

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker

Mr Mundubile: … and we cannot run away from what has happened under this Government. We will not come here and start speaking to one another like we are in a love affair. Let us be serious with Government business. What I am referring to is Government business.

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: These are things that have happened under this Government, and that is what I am referring to. I will therefore proceed.

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: So, there are consultancy contracts of US$35 million awarded to friendly companies and you expect the President to speak to morality and ethics, how? How will the President do that?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, I am highly constrained to rise on a point of order on the Leader of the Opposition, Hon. Mundubile, whom we all consider as very level headed in the manner he presents his debates. I am surprised, pursuant to item 65 of our guiding book, that Hon. Mundubile could stand in this chamber and indicate that we bought fertiliser at more than 50,000, I think he said 65,000 or 75,000. I would like him to show proof because he is telling the country and the world that we actually bought fertiliser at a price higher than he knew was the price. Is he in order to mislead himself in the very respectful manner in which he is debating?

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling because these are the issues which if not corrected, keep on misleading the nation.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I think that the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the House knows in his heart that he is out of order by insinuating that there was some misguide in the procurement of fertiliser that was done, without providing proof, whatsoever. So, I think, let us desist from making such allegations on the Floor of the House because we will end up misleading ourselves and misleading the listeners out there.

I have guided that we must just stick to the President’s Speech. If I was a debater, going by the debate I used to engage in at Chipata Day Secondary School, I think I would do very well.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: We just have to stick to what we really want, which is the President’s Speech. You can puncture it if you want, but let us just stick to the speech.

You can go ahead, hon. Leader of the Opposition in the House.

Mr Mundubile: Just to give comfort to the Hon. Mr Speaker, I was also the best debater at Kamwala Secondary School. So, I think, we share something in common.

Laughter

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, maybe, just to reduce panic on my colleagues on the right, I will go to something lighter. Let us talk about democracy and constitutionalism.

Mr Speaker, it was going to be very difficult for His Excellency the President to deliver on the progress made on democracy and constitutionalism in the face of the Kabushi and Kwacha by-elections. It was going to be very difficult. If at all anybody here expected the President to speak or give progress on democracy and constitutionalism, we were expecting too much. It was very difficult. His Excellency was constrained because of what happened in Kabushi and Kwacha. That is the reason the report is abbreviated. The report has only got a few lines. It was very difficult to build up text on those things.

So, Mr Speaker, when you talk about human dignity, equity, social justice, equality and non-discrimination, in the face of prolonged detentions, people held for a number of days on bondable offences, what progress did we want the President to report to this House given that innocent people are tortured? Suspects are tortured, and you expected the President to deliver progress on democracy and constitutionalism?

Mr Andeleki: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, the Office of the Auditor-General is provided for under the Constitution as an oversight body.

Mr Andeleki: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order, is raised by the hon. Member for, …

Mr Mundubile: Which one?

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: … Katombola.

Mr Mundubile: We will keep them busy today, Mr Speaker.

Mr Andeleki: Mr Speaker, I am at pains to raise this point of order. However, it is in accordance with Standing Order No.65 on Hon. Mundubile, a learned colleague of mine to be debating – (inaudible).

Mr Speaker, knowing the record of the past Government where there were extrajudicial killings where we lost a number of our citizens, is he in order to debate in that fashion and state that there are extrajudicial detentions without laying evidence on the Floor of this House thereby misleading the whole world? We are at pains, Mr Speaker, and need your ruling on that matter.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The rules of the House are that we should always debate facts. If we are making assertions or allegations, they have to be backed by facts. So, the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the House is out of order because he cannot substantiate his points. He cannot substantiate his points by way of backing them with proof which he can lay on the Table to prove that there are extrajudicial killings –

Interruptions

Mr B. Mpundu: Killing, who said that?

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: oh, extrajudicial detention.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:  The point is that do not make assertions on the Floor of the House which you cannot substantiate. That is the point. Any other thing remains as guided.

Hon. Member, you can continue with your debate.

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, I will read from Article 259 (2) (a).

Mr Speaker, it has been very difficult to make progress for the New Dawn Government,a lot of difficulty in them recording progress on values, for obvious reasons. So, Article 259 (2) (a) reads:

“A person empowered to make a nomination or appointment to a public office shall, where possible, ensure that nomination or appointment reflects the regional diversity of the people of Zambia.”

Interruptions

Mr Mutale: That is what the Constitution says.

Mr Mundubile: This is the Constitution.

Mr Speaker, I need your protection. I am just quoting the Constitution.

Interruptions

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, do not debate whilst seated, both the right and the left.

Mr Kapyanga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, I am at pains to be in this House at this moment because we are here to represent the 19 million Zambians, and our Standing Orders are very clear –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You are at pains?

Mr Kapyanga: I am citing –

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:Order!

Mr Kapyanga:To be here.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Do you want a pain killer? I thought you wanted a pain killer.

Laughter

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, this is not a joking session, but a working one.

Mr Speaker, Standing Order 204 (g) provides that a member shall listen and follow deliberationsin silence.

Mr Speaker, the rules of debate are that when a debater is debating, hon. Members take points so that they can come and counteract. How then do we have this circus in the House where the right has to defend itself through noise making?

Mr Speaker, first and foremost, even your chairing is being undermined by that action.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, we are here to debate and interrogate the speech. They have the right to come and defend the speech at their time of debate and not from their seats whilst making noise, disturbing the debater and also passing running comments that undermine all of us on the left, including you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, are they in order, collectively, those on your right, except for a few, to make noise and pass running comments whilst you are presiding over a very serious debate of the President’s Speech to our nation?

Mr Speaker, I seek your very serious ruling.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I thank you for your observation and that you want this House to have a lot of sanity and decorum.

Hon. Members, let us ensure that we maintain peace and tranquility in this House.

Hon. Member for Mporokoso, you may continue.

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Kapyanga for that assistance and I hope that hon. Colleagues on the right can now listen in silence. What I was quoting was the Constitution, why do they want to argue with a constitutional provision?

Mr Speaker, I will read Article 259 (2) (a):

“A person empowered to make a nomination or appointment to a public office shall, where, possible ensure that nomination or appointment reflects the regional diversity of the people of Zambia.”

It is a very important provision.

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, when I was debating the Motion to suspend Standing Orders, I said on the Floor of the House that, as hon. Members of Parliament, we were expectant. Our expectations were very high, and I highlighted some of the things that we wanted the President to talk about. It remains a notorious fact that out there, in the media; on radio and television, there have been concerns from the people of Zambia. Some people have gone to the extent of presenting lists of appointments. This is a matter on which we can decide today to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it does not exist.  What we expected was the President to take it upon himself to address the matter because it borders on the values and principles in our Constitution, particularly, patriotism and national unity.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, we need sanity. I think it is not fair. We cannot have ten points of order on one debate. I do not think we should proceed that way.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order on the Leader of the Opposition, pertaining to the statements that he has made, arising from Order No. 65of our Standing Orders. 

Mr Speaker, it is a matter of principle and fact that when you speak and allege, you must ensure that you are making allegations with clean hands. The hon. Member –

Mr Mundubile interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: This is Order No. 65 of our Standing Orders. I am raising a point of order on you. Yes!

Mr Mbangweta: On you, just keep quiet!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member, who is the Leader of the Opposition, is aware of what transpired in the past and what is obtaining now. I am aware that in this House, we have the Leader of the Opposition and the Government Chief Whip. The hon. Member has rightly quoted that when making appointments, one must take into account regional consideration and other factors according to the Constitution. As he is speaking and making those statements, why is he not telling the nation that the Leader of the Opposition and his Whip are from the same region, ...

Mr Mundubileinterjected.

Mr Mwiimbu:...the same issues he has raised on the Floor of this House?

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu:Why is he not raising those issues?

Mr Speaker, they raised those issues and points of order on us. Arising from Article 65, is he in order not to refer to what they were alleging in the past and what they are doing now?

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: Can I continue?

Hon. Member: He has to rule. Let him rule.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

As we debate, let us bear in mind that we are, ‘One Zambia, One Nation’. We should not at any given point, try to point at issues without looking at ourselves critically.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Member: Question, Chair!

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: That is my guide. All the time, as leaders, let us ensure that issues to do with regional and tribal lines are not be part of our debates. Our Constitution allows intermarriages. So, all of us are related. In trying to get political attention whether from the right or left, let us desist from such utterances because our primary objective is to ensure that we unite our people. Much as we may be divided politically, let us remain united as the Zambian family. That is my guide. The issue of regional politics should not arise going forward.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mundubile: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, with due respect to fellow counsel, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, I will not descend into that arena, and trivialise the debate on the Floor of the House. I will ignore what he said.

Mr Speaker, the issue was asked based on Article 259. Under the heading of patriotism and national unity, we expected the President to spend more time on that because this subject is topical, and I will not be part of a team of hon. Members who will sit here and pretend that there is no problem. There is a problem, and it must be addressed. The fact that that matter is debated every day on radio and television, it was just in order for the President to put it to rest by speaking about it when he came to this House, and in line with the Constitution.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to say that just by looking at the size of the President’s Speech, it is very evident that the technocrats struggled to put the contents of the document together. I do not blame them; what could they have said? A lot has happened as I have outlined. Talking about ethics and morality, yesterday – You have a District Commissioner (DC) stealing something every day under the New Dawn Government.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: You have Deputy Permanent Secretaries (PSs) stealing things every other day. What did you expect the President to say? My worry is that where are the DCs and PSs getting this habit of stealing every other day? It is a source of concern. We are talking about a party of angels, but every other member is accused of stealing something every other day. Where are they getting this habit from?

Your Honour the Vice-President, we need a day of prayer. We should spend time praying for the UPND because I think there is a spirit of stealing and picking things that do not belong to it that has befallen it.

Laughter

Mr Mundubile: We need to come together in the spirit of brotherhood and comradery to pray for this party that is leading us today, so that that spirit can be exorcised.

With those few remarks, I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, according to Article 65 of our Standing Orders, on relevance of speech – the thieves in this country are known. All the tactics of stealing came from the PF.

Laughter

Mr Munsanje: Is the hon. Member in order to talk about the New Dawn Government, which is ensuring that nobody is stealing? Those who are found questionable are being disciplined.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:It was a point of order.

Laughter

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Nalikwanda.

Mr Simunji (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me a chance to talk after the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr Speaker, it is very disappointing that today, our colleagues are talking about corruption in the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government forgetting that, currently, the country owes about K270 billion which they borrowed over a period of five or six years. To date, they are not able to account for how they used that money. The country is now in debt.

Mr Speaker, we heard the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development and the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development talking about roads that were constructed during their time. What were they doing? They were using selective tendering. A selective tender has rules in which it can be used.  There is a limit to which you can use a selective tender but they continued using it. Why were they doing that? It was becauseof corruption.

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1840 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 3rdMarch, 2023.

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