Wednesday, 22nd February, 2023

Printer Friendly and PDF

       Wednesday, 22nd February, 2023

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MADAM SPEAKER

DELEGATION FROM PARLIAMENT OF UGANDA

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the following members of the Parliamentary Committee on Public Accounts, Commissions, Statutory Authorities and State Enterprises, and staff from the Parliament of Uganda:

Hon. Lucy Akello, MP, Chairperson and Leader of the Delegation;

Hon. Nathan Itungo, MP;

Hon. Irene Linda, MP;

Hon. Richard Sebamala, MP;

Hon. David Legen, MP;

Hon. Gerald Nangoli, MP;

Hon. Samuel Okwii, MP;

Ms Christine Awor, Clerk Assistant;

Mr Edward Ngobye, Principal Economist; and

Ms Rose Aciro, Senior Administration Assistant.

I wish, on behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, to receive our distinguished guests and warmly welcome them in our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

FREE EYE SCREENING EXERCISE

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that Phil Opticians Limited has been authorised to conduct a free eye screening exercise for hon. Members of Parliament and staff. The exercise is aimed at promoting eye health care through early detection and treatment of common eye ailments.

The exercise will be conducted from Monday, 27th February, 2023 to Thursday, 2nd March, 2023, from 0900 hours to 1600 hours and on Friday, 3rd March, 2023 from 0900 hours to 1300 hours at the Main Reception area, here, at Main Parliament Buildings.

Hon. Members are encouraged to participate in the exercise.

I thank you.

______

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

MR MTAYACHALO, HON. MEMBER FOR CHAMA NORTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF GREEN ECONOMY AND ENVIRONMENT, ENG. NZOVU, ON EXPECTED DISASTER FROM CYCLONE FREDDY 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment.

Madam Speaker, the United Nations Department of Safety and Security (UNDSS) in Lusaka has issued a warning of a potential high risk of dangerous storm surge, flooding and strong or damaging wind, especially in the Southern Province, which is most likely to be affected and also, parts of the Eastern Province and Central Province. This follows the latest report from the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Climate Services Centre that in the coming few days, intense Tropical Cyclone Freddy is expected to make landfall in different parts of the Southern Africa, which will involve heavy rainfall and flash floods.

Madam Speaker, it is imperative that the hon. Minister updates the nation on how prepared the country is to deal with this matter and the anticipated disaster in the areas that have been mentioned. What measures is the Government putting in place to alert the people in order to prevent loss of lives and property?

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

MR CHITOTELA, HON. MEMBER FOR PAMBASHE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS AND INTERNAL SECURITY, MR MWIIMBU, ON IMPOUNDED SUGILITE

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, a matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the matter I am raising is directed at the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security.

Madam Speaker: What is the matter, hon. Member?

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, this is relation to today’s publication in News Diggers, Issue No. 1414, headlined:

“Police nab Luapula deputy PS, 2 DCs”

Madam Speaker, this is in relation to sugilite. I am compelled to raise this matter due to the pressure from the people of Luapula Province. The chiefs and residents of that area have been calling me –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

Let the hon. Member raise his matter of urgent public importance.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I have been resisting to raise this matter but due to the pressure from the residents of Luapula Province, who are planning to stage a protest because the Government seems not to be responding to their calls, I am compelled to raise it.  

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, on 14th February, 2023, it was reported that there was a contraband of sugilite that was impounded in Kabwe, Central Province of Zambia, of about 10 tonnes, which is worth about US$30 million. This stone is worth about US$3 million per metric tonne. It is alleged –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

If you want us to procced with these matters of urgent public importance, I require that we have total silence in the House, without hon. Members shouting whilst seated. Let the hon. Members raise their matters of urgent public importance without any interruption.

May the hon. Member continue.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for your indulgence and protection.

Madam Speaker, this resulted in the arrest of three senior police officers who were alleged to have escorted this illegal contraband. To the surprise of the people of Luapula Province, the same day, on 14th February, the police command initiated the transfer of the commissioner of police, Mrs Gloria Mulele, from Luapula Province to the Northern Province and replaced her with Mr Fwambo Siame who was the commissioner of police in the Western Province. Mr Fwambo Siame was replaced by Mr Roy Kashiwa who was the commissioner in charge of operations at force headquarters, and was transferred to the Northern Province.

Madam Speaker, further, the chief inspector who was the officer-in-charge at Muombe wrote a report. What is shocking is that at 2300 hours, the Provincial Joint Operations Committee (PJOC) for Luapula Province visited Muombe Mine in the company of the Deputy Permanent Secretary (DPS) and two District Commissioners (DCs), and the instruction to start mining was given. I have the report with me, and the transfer information issued by the police command. Shockingly, yesterday, the police did what could be best by arresting the DPS who, it is alleged in this report, visited the place in the company of the PJOC and the two DCs, and began mining and loading 10 tonnes of sugilite. He also gave instructions to the senior police officers who are in charge of police intelligence in Mansa District. He also withdrew a firearm from the armoury and escorted this illegal contraband.

Madam Speaker, the matter of urgent public importance is: Why is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security quiet as though there is nothing serious that has happened in Luapula Province that is affecting the welfare of the people in this country, and the people of Luapula Province in particular?

Madam Speaker, for ease of reference and for your information, I will lay the three documents on the Table. This is the News Diggers edition of today and this story was even on Diamond TV Zambia news yesterday. I also have the message issued by the police command instructing the immediate transfer of the police officers.

Madam Speaker: Is the minute certified?

Mr Chitotela: I will spare you this item, but I will lay the newspaper on the Table, which is in public domain for your ease of reference.

Madam Speaker: The newspaper can be laid on the Table, but in future, if you intend to lay a document on the Table, it has to be certified and brought to my chambers for verification before you tender it. So, the newspaper can be laid on the Table since it is a public document.

Mr Chitotela: I thank you, Madam Speaker, for your guidance and I have taken note.

Mr Chitotela laid the paper on the Table.

Madam Speaker: I will reluctantly allow the hon. Member for Petauke Central to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Petauke Central, raise the matter concisely and with the seriousness it deserves.

Mr J. E. BANDA, HON. MEMBER FOR PETAUKE CENTRAL, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF WATER DEVELOPMENT AND SANITATION, MR MPOSHA, ON LACK OF WATER IN NYIKA WARD

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke Central this opportunity. The good people of Petauke Central gave me the mandate to represent them in this august House, and I am liberty to place this Bosch gadget here so that I can be called upon to speak.

Laughter

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, most of the good people in Petauke Central in Nyika Ward are admitted in hospital as we are talking right now because of diarrhoea.

Madam Speaker, this matter is directed at the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation. Last year, I raised the same matter of shortage of water in Nyika Ward, and you asked the hon. Minister and myself to discuss. We have been talking but there are no fruits. As a result, I am on fire in my constituency. In Nyika Ward, there is no water, and we only need one borehole which can cushion the situation as we are waiting for the Government to rehabilitate the dam in Lusowe.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, I was talking to the hon. Minister. However, I am left with no option but to come on this Floor and ask for your indulgence. You have to intervene because I cannot continue seeing my people sleeping in Petauke General Hospital. It is not good. I am crying as you are seeing me.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, I am asking for your intervention in this matter so that the hon. Minister of Water Development does something.

MR FUBE, HON. MEMBER FOR CHILUBI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, MR M. PHIRI, ON FERTILISER

Mr Fube (Chilubi): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is anchored on Standing Order No. 134 and is directed at the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Madam Speaker, Zambia’s crop production is mainly rain-fed. Rainfall is usually influenced by the movement of the Inter-Tropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ). Zambia is divided into three agro-ecological zones, that is, agro-ecological zone number one, agro-ecological zone number two and number three. My concern is agro-ecological zone number three, which is affected because of the fertiliser that was distributed.

Madam Speaker, my matter of urgent public importance is on Lico D Compound fertiliser produced by United Capital Fertiliser and Falcon Fertiliser which has granular Urea. Both fertilisers are packed in 50 kg bags.

Madam Speaker, research so far shows that in five constituencies which fall under the agro-ecological zone number three, there is rainfall above 1,000 ml on average per annum and the growth period of crops is 160 days per annum. Having said that, the affected areas are Samfya, Lunga, …

Mr J. E. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fube: Iwe ikalafye, we chikopo iwe.

Laughter

Mr Fube: … Lupososhi, Lubansenshi and Chilubi.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I cannot even follow. Hon. Member, can you be precise so that we move.

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I am narrowing my debate towards that. I just wanted to rule out other possibilities of how the fertiliser is interacting with crops. I was laying the background of the climate for the areas affected.

Madam Speaker, the areas that are affected are not covered under crop insurance after the removal of the Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) System. To be honest, I did not take into consideration the hectarage affected, but the interaction of the fertilisers mentioned. We doubt that the content of the Lico D Compound fertiliser, which is produced by United Capital Fertiliser and granular urea supplied by Falcon Fertilisers because the crops are not responding. Actually, in Bemba, I would say amataba naya kashika which simply means that –

Mr B. Mpundu: The maize is red.

Mr Fube: No, no, it is not that the maize is red. I cannot speak that kind of English.

Laughter

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, it simply means that the maize is malnourished, …

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Fube: …compounded with the fact that the mentioned area is also affected by Cassava Brown Streak Disease. This area we are talking about; the Agro Ecological Zone number three, is likely to have hunger and people are going to face starvation. Starvation can also cause crime and death.

So, Madam Speaker, I seek your ruling on this particular issue, especially on whether this fertiliser was subjected to certification by the Zambia Agriculture Research Institute (ZARI) before it was given to farmers because it is not responding and it will cause food insecurity.

Madam Speaker, I rest my case on behalf of the people of Chilubi.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let me deal with that matter immediately.

Hon. Member for Chilubi, the issues you have raised are so complicated. You are talking about a report which is not even before this House. If you are so concerned about that issue and you believe that it is important, then I direct that you reduce in writing the Urgent Matter of Public Importance and schedule it for debate on a date to be notified, on a Wednesday.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: That way, we will have all the issues brought out with supporting documents. Then it can be debated.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: I could not follow what you were saying, hon. Member.

MS LUNGU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHAWAMA, ON HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT, MRS NALUMANGO, ON THE FLOODS IN CHAWAMA

Ms Lungu (Chawama): Madam Speaker, the people of Chawama are affected in the sense that over 2,000 households have been submerged in water. Due to the pit latrines, this water is contaminated. When we go to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) to ask for help, we are being referred back to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). That 5 per cent that has been reserved for emergencies under DMMU, we cannot access it for months because the procedures are too lengthy.

Madam Speaker, I want to – first of all, let me seek your guidance. This issue needed to be directed at Her Honour the Vice-President. What do we do in this situation where we cannot access these funds that have been reserved for emergencies?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

MR KAPYANGA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MPIKA CENTRAL ON THE MINISTER OF EDUCATION, MR SYAKALIMA, ON THE BOOK ON COMPREHENSIVE SEXUALITY EDUCATION FOR GRADE 5 LEARNERS

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order No. 134 directed at the hon. Minister of Education.

Madam Speaker, there is a book which is making rounds on social media and other media platforms that has incensed the Zambian people to the core. This book is titled “Life Skills Based, Comprehensive Sexuality Education, Learners’ Book, Grade 5”.

Madam Speaker, an extract in this book is talking about sexuality. I will not be in order to read some of the contents of this book on the Floor of this House. This book has incensed the Zambian people because it is allegedly teaching the children everything about sex.

Madam Speaker, despite this book being circulated widely and other politicians talking about it, the Ministry of Education has not issued any statement to distance itself from this book because this book is written Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ). According to the cover of this book, it has been approved to be used in Zambian schools.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Education has not issued any statement to either accept that this book is actually being used to teach in schools or distance itself from the book.

I, therefore, seek your guidance, Madam Speaker, on this very important subject.

MR MUNIR ZULU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LUMEZI, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT, MR KABUSWE, ON THE ALLEGED THEFT OF SUGILITE

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, I thank you. You are very kind. I raise this matter of urgent public importance directed at the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development. When we were elected to come to Parliament, we swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia and to give allegiance to the Republican President, His Excellency Hakainde Hichilema.

Madam Speaker, in the last four or five days, social media and another media houses have been running this Sugilite story. It started as a rumour implicating Her Honour the Vice-President, who we should all be defending and then –

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member!

Let us avoid debating ourselves. Now, you are putting Her Honour the Vice-President on the spot. It is not fair because she will not be able to defend herself. We are talking about social media, and you know what social media does. It is not verifiable. Unless you have other information, social media can be damaging to everybody. Proceed, but do not rely so much on social media.

Mr Munir Zulu: Thank you for your guidance, Madam Speaker. When a lie is told several times, people tend to believe it. It is only right that we rise to defend all those who are being accused of having a hand in that contraband. It can only be done when the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development tells this honourable House who runs that mine where the contraband called Sugilite is originating from.

Madam Speaker, the Zambian people are demanding for answers on that mineral. In other countries where they have got such minerals, wars have broken loose. We are trying to protect such illegalities from taking place because minerals are a source of conflicts in many parts of the world.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, once hon. Members have indicated to raise matters of urgent public importance, let us not keep on indicating to do the same. We have other business to conduct. Hon. Member for Chembe, you have just indicated to raise a matter. The last person was the hon. Member for Lumezi. So, hon. Member for Chembe, you indicated too late. I will not take that. I have got so many matters today. Sorry about that.

So, let us start with the one by the hon. Member for Chama North about this cyclone which is expected to hit the country starting from Mozambique, South Africa and Malawi with flash floods and heavy rainfall. It is directed at the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment. Maybe, the hon. Minister can shed some light on this matter.

The Minister of Green Economy and Environment (Eng. Nzovu): Madam Speaker, fortunately, earlier today, we issued a statement. In answering Hon. Mtayachalo and for the benefit of the hon. Members of Parliament, I will quickly read the statement we issued, which will clear a few issues.

Madam Speaker, episodes of light to moderate rainfall are expected to affect parts of the North-Western Province, the Eastern Province, the Central Province, the Copperbelt Province, Lusaka Province, the Southern Province, Muchinga Province, the Northern Province and Luapula Province leading to water logging and localised flooding due to saturated soil moisture during the period 22nd to 28th February, 2023.

Madam Speaker, the heavy rainfall experienced in the last seven days has been due to a low-pressure system over northern Botswana and Zimbabwe. This system maintained the Inter-Tropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ) to the southern borders of Zambia inducing continuous and heavy rainfall over these areas. This has resulted into water logging and localised flooding due to the above-normal rainfall received during the season.

Madam Speaker, in the next 24 to 72 hours, the Tropical Cyclone Freddy is expected to make landfall over Madagascar by Tuesday evening and on coastal Mozambique by Friday morning. Cyclone Freddy may, indirectly, induce episodes of light to moderate rainfall over parts of the North-Western Province, the Copperbelt Province, the Central Province, Lusaka Province, the Eastern Province and the Southern Province as it traverses over Madagascar, Mozambique, Zimbabwe and South Africa from 22nd to 28th February, 2023.

Madam Speaker, the tropical Cyclone Freddy will diminish into a storm after making landfall over Mozambique. This will tend to enhance rainfall over Zambia from 26th February, 2023, which may lead to further water logging and flooding in prone areas.

Madam Speaker, our advice, therefore, is that citizens should consider moving away from low lying areas to up-lands until the rainfall season of floods is over. They must ensure that drainages around dwelling places are clear of debris. They should not drive in flooded roads or in heavy rains due to poor visibility. They should avoid crossing flooded points and bridges; this has lead to the loss of lives before. We need to ensure that children do not play in flood water to avoid drowning and contracting water-borne diseases. We need to treat our water, especially from shallow or flooded wells as they may be contaminated, and we ask that citizens report flooding or landslides to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) by calling toll free line 909.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, through the Zambia Meteorological Department, will continue updating the nation on the trajectory and likely impacts of the Cyclone Freddy across the country and will be issuing advisories in collaboration with the DMMU and the Water Resource Management Authority (WARMA) to the general public accordingly, through the media.

Madam Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament may also wish to note that meteorological data is a critical input into risk assessments, risk responses through the Vice-President’s office and, in particular, through the DMMU. So, already, having tracked this tropical storm, several measures have been put in place by the DMMU through the Vice-President’s office, including the Ministry of Health because flooding, as you are aware, brings about many water borne diseases. So, the Government is, by and large, ready for the tropical storm Freddy.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much. So, the hon. Member for Chama North, the Government is aware and has taken steps to address and to be prepared for the situation. I will only allow five questions.

The hon. Member for Chama North, you may proceed.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, in those areas where we potentially expect floods, are we trying to communicate to our people using community radio stations as not everyone is able to get this information. So, are we ensuring that in those particular areas, our people will be effectively informed through community radio stations?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for that very important question. I think hon. Members will note that even as we come to Parliament, at the beginning of the forecast, we translate all these messages in local languages. This information dissemination actually gets frequent as the season becomes more active. In this event where, now soils are saturated and any rainfall leads to water logging and flooding, we have enhanced our communication even more. We are on community radio stations, television and social media to inform our citizens.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much and happy Ash Wednesday to you.

Madam Speaker, let me start by thanking the hon. Minister for that quick response. Indeed, risk management of disasters depends so much on the risk preparedness. The hon. Minister has indicated that Muchinga Province will be one of those provinces that will be affected. That is where Shiwang’andu Constituency is located.

Madam Speaker, what should I be saying to my poor farmers there since he is saying that the rainfall will come with water-logging which means that most of the fields are likely going to be affected? What should I be saying to my poor farmers in Shiwang’andu Constituency on how they should respond and react to this weather pattern, which is likely going to affect them starting this weekend; 26th February, 2023, is just this coming weekend?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. Colleague for that very important question. I must state here that one of the users of this meteorological data, other than DMMU, through the Vice-President office, is the Ministry of Agriculture. I am working very closely with Hon. Mtolo in training agriculture extension officers under his ministry to not only receive this information timely, but also to utilise it and utilising it is in educating various farmers. So, to answer directly the question from the hon. Member of Parliament, what we should be telling our people is that they should listen more to the agriculture extension officers.

Madam Speaker, indeed, going forward, obviously, flooding will have an impact on their yields and this is the space, basically, which the Ministry of Agriculture may be better to elaborate on because we provide information for it to use to advise farmers. So, I think that question will be better answered by the Ministry of Agriculture.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for those intervention measures that are being undertaken. However, let me make mention that according to the summit he attended in Glasgow, the United Nations Climate Change Conference, COP 26, if I am not mistaken, there are awareness and area adaptations to some of these climate change issues and risk awareness. What has the ministry put in place, apart from those mitigation measures he has mentioned? The hon. Minister must be aware that some places do not even have drainage to ensure that debris is cleared. So, what measures has his ministry put in place to ensure that people in those areas have early warning mechanisms as well as the risk adaptation measures to safeguard our people?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank my fellow hon. Member for that very important question, again. Indeed, these are issues which are not restricted to the country. These are global issues and global issues can only be tackled at a global level.

Madam Speaker, one of the measures we have put in place is to enhance the reach of various meteorological stations around the country. I think I came to report to Parliament, a few months ago, that we procured about 120 meteorological stations. Right now, we are refining the quality of meteorological data we churn out.

Madam Speaker, we are also engaging more community radio stations. This is, basically, to improve advocacy and awareness among our people. This is key. I think that carrying our people along, in this space, to reduce disaster as a result of the climate crisis is key because they live amongst the natural resources and in that environment. So, basically, communication awareness as well as ensuring that there is more technical capacity is important.

Madam Speaker, one of the issues we have achieved, working with the global community and as a result of our travels abroad is to bring technical capacity, capital and the know how back home so that we can utilise this effectively for the benefit of our people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker called upon the hon. Member for Petauke Central.

Madam Speaker: I am just following the sequence. I was almost tempted to skip you, but …

Laughter

Madam Speaker: ... I will give you the benefit of doubt.

Mr J. E. Banda (Petauke Central): Madam Speaker, thank you for your motherly love. I also thank you for giving the good people of Petauke a chance to ask a follow-up question on this important topic. I thank the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment for a well-articulated answer.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment has just informed us that the Eastern Province is among the areas which will be affected by the cyclone. For those areas which can easily be affected by this cyclone, has the ministry allocated money for the people who would want to be ‘reallocated’ from those flood-prone areas to the upper land? If so, how much has been put for this activity? Where can people access this money so that they can ‘reallocate?’

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Do you mean ‘relocate’ or ‘reallocate’?

Interruptions

Mr J. E. Banda: Madam Speaker, it is PetaUK English. It is short English, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Eng. Nzovu:  Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke Central for that question. The first short answer is that issues of resettlement are under the higher office, the Vice-President’s Office. I would therefore, request my hon. Colleague to approach that office.

Madam Speaker, secondly, this gives me an opportunity to inform my fellow hon. Members of Parliament that basically, these are not issues for the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment alone. These are our issues. So, in earnest, I invite hon. Members to visit our offices so that we provide them with the necessary information for them to our people. This is key. Our people listen to them. When our people hear an hon. Member of Parliament discuss issues on environment, they will understand them better. For those who do not understand, we will sit with them and even interpret issues in their own language so that they can engage our people better.

Madam Speaker, further, I also want to inform the hon. Member of Parliament that we are working across all ministries because climate change affects everything. For example, with the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, we are disusing climate smart infrastructure, climate smart agriculture, energy security and mining issues. So, as the Government, we are trying to put in robust plans and programmes to ensure that our people are well-informed.

Madam Speaker, we are also appealing to our people that it is dangerous to live in low-lying areas. In the past, it never used to rain so much and people settled in areas where they should not have settled.

Madam Speaker, this also gives me an opportunity to appeal to councils, which are the planning authorities to up their game. Certain areas are off bound for plots. Certain areas must really be preserved to ensure that there is environmental sustainability and that the various ecosystems provided to our people continue to ensure that there is free flow of water. Some of the flooding we are experiencing in these towns is as a result of bad planning, where the propensity of getting and sharing land increased. This, we must stop.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that he has been meeting with other ministries and departments to prepare for Tropical Cyclone Freddy.

Madam Speaker, we are only a few days away from the date that is anticipated this cyclone will hit Zambia. Has the Government prepared a multi-sectoral response to communicate to our people so that we do not have a situation where, depending on who they approach, they will refer them to the next department? Has the ministry prepared a multi-sectoral response that could be offered to our people in order for them to be ready been?

Eng. Nzovu: Madam Speaker, I thank the Leader of the Opposition most sincerely for that question. He reminds me of something very important. I will demonstrate what we mean when we say that this is a methodical Government.  

Madam Speaker, already, under the Chairmanship of Her Honour the Vice-President, we have met three to four times to plan for the unprecedented flooding that we have had in the country. On board, is the Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation, and the Ministry of Health, which already, has a robust plan to treat our people should they be infected with waterborne diseases. As we speak right now, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), is looking for more funding so that the responses are up-scaled.  We are ready. I am sure the hon. Leader of the Opposition saw the floods in the Southern Province, the Central Province and the Eastern Province, including other areas we visited. We have a robust plan right now to ensure that we respond adequately. So, I can assure the Leader of the Opposition that we are ready as always.

I thank you. Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The last question will be from the hon. Member for Kamfinsa.

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment has informed this nation, through his statement, that this threat is real. He has also informed the nation that there is a multi-sectoral team that is looking at this matter. However, he has not told this august House how much it will cost the country to deal with this challenge. How much money do we need to deal with this challenge?

Eng Nzovu: Madam Speaker, as to the complete details of our approach towards this flooding, obviously, I would request that I am given time. I need to consult with Her Honour the Vice-President’s Office, in particular, the Disaster Management Mitigation Unit (DMMU).

Madam Speaker, I have also just received additional information from my hon. Colleague, the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services that emergence social cash transfer will also go towards the people who will be affected.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you, very much.

Let me deal with the matter of urgent public importance raised by the hon. Member for Petauke Central.

Hon. Member for Petauke, the matter of urgent public importance you raised was directed at the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation regarding the situation of lack of water in Nyika Ward, in your constituency. From your own presentation, you said that this matter is an old matter. You had approached the hon. Minister last years, but nothing has happened.

Hon. Member, for a matter to qualify to be raised as a matter of urgent public importance, it must be of recent occurrence. In that regard, since the matter is ongoing, I would advise you to put in a question, which will be directed at the hon. Minister so that it can be treated in that manner.

As for the matter that the hon. Member for Chawama has raised regarding floods and this was directed at Her Honour the Vice-President. I wish to state that there are floods all over Lusaka, particularly in Kanyama, Kabwata and Chawama. You further stated that there is no access to the 5 per cent reserved for emergencies.  Since there are floods all over, I think hon. Members would want to know from Her Honour the Vice-President the actual state of flooding and how it has affected the people. So, Her Honour the Vice-President can come back with a statement to brief the House at a later date, maybe, next week on Thursday. I hope that time will be sufficient for her to prepare so that we can deal with this matter once and for all.

Since there are so many occurrences of flash floods around the country, I think the hon. Members would like to hear from Her Honour the Vice-President on the actual status of the floods situation and how it has affected the people. So, Her Honour the Vice-President can issue a statement to brief the House on that, maybe, next week, on Thursday, 2nd March, 2023. I hope that will be sufficient time, so that we can deal with this matter once and for all.

The Vice-President indicated assent.

Madam Speaker: The next matter of urgent public importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Education concerning a learners’ book that is circulating on social media. I have also seen social media posts referring to it, and I was wondering what is happening.

The hon. Minister of Education will issue a statement on that issue.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity.

Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Education, implemented the revised curriculum in 2014 that included information to help adolescents cope with numerous challenges as they transition from childhood to adulthood. The information covering various topics from Grade5 to Grade 12 was put in a document called Comprehensive Sexuality Education (CSE) Framework.

Madam Speaker, unlike other countries, CSE in Zambia is integrated into career subjects such as integrated science, home economics, social studies, religious education and civic education. However, towards the end of 2020, there had been concerns from some members of society on the content of CSE. In responding to the demands from stakeholders, the Government appointed a multi-ministerial technical committee to review the CSE Framework. The review was preceded by consultative meetings that were conducted in all the ten provinces of Zambia with sittings in three districts per province totaling thirty districts classified as rural, peri-urban, and urban, which were sampled in each province.

Madam Speaker, the concerns and suggestions were submitted by traditional leaders, religious leaders, learners, head teachers, teachers, community leaders, civil society organisations (CSOs), standards officers, line ministries, service providers, and Ministry of Education officials.

Sorry I nearly said, country men and women. This was supposed to be a press statement.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the stakeholders did not entirely reject the teaching of CSE but made the following observations:

  1. learners indicated that CSE was useful in their lives as it enabled them to make informed decisions and protect themselves from sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and early pregnancies;
  2. teachers were, however, not comfortable with the title “Comprehensive Sexuality Education”;
  3. parents and most religious leaders said that contraceptives should not be taught to school children, but the emphasis should be placed on abstinence. Most traditional leaders suggested that CSE be changed to another appropriate name;
  4. stakeholders did not find any content that was promoting homosexuality in the textbooks produced by the Ministry of Education which are used from Grade 5 to Grade 12.

Madam Speaker, the technical committee has since completed reviewing the CSE Framework by addressing the concerns raised by stakeholders. The name has since been changed to ‘Life Skills and Health Education Framework’. However, the revised framework is yet to be validated. This is because, following the Presidential directive to reform the curriculum, CSE is also under review since it is integrated into career subjects.

Madam Speaker, the recent post on social media is probably meant to tarnish the Government and the great strides that the Ministry of Education and other partners have attained in combating teenage pregnancies and STIs. The post circulating on social media was first circulated in Zambia in 2021, and has been forwarded many times. It actually originated from Tanzania.

Madam Speaker, the ministry undertook a survey in bookshops and checked through titles of the books circulating on social media and its findings were that the books circulating on social media were not developed by the ministry. The cover of the book on the post is correct, however, the page circulating is not from any of the Zambian books. It was photo-shopped and even the pagination is different.

Madam Speaker, the ministry remains open to any further submissions and welcomes any opportunity to further raise awareness on CSE with stakeholders in Zambia including parents, traditional leaders and religious bodies.

Madam Speaker, we are also deeply concerned about misleading and alarmist information on the content that is a clear misrepresentation of what is contained in the Zambian CSE Curriculum Framework.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I will allow only five questions according to the order of indication.

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I have a document called Comprehensive Sexuality Education Framework with details of the curriculum fromGrade5 to Grade 12. When you go through the contents, there is a segment on human rights. The whole document indirectly, even if the ministry is denying the promotion of homosexuality, contains parts on respecting human rights of people in same-sex relationships. Definitely, that shows that it is leading to topics on homosexuality, and the framework has details of the curriculum from Grade 5 to Grade 12.

Madam Speaker, some schools are asking parents to buy a book called the Diary of a Wimpy Kid for their children. The hon. Minister said that he had gone round the shops to inspect the contents of the prescribed books. However, when you read that particular book, there is a part discussing sex, yet it is meant for a child in Grade 4. I bought that book for my nephews without knowing its content. What I want to bring to the attention of the nation –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, when you asking a question seeking clarification, do not debate. You are now providing more information on the Floor.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I just wanted to give a background to what the hon. Minister said.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister should not be economical in explaining the true picture of what is prevailing in our schools regarding homosexuality education. When you read books such as the Diary of a Wimpy Kid, which we are buying for our school children, and when you go through the framework –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, just ask one question. We do not have enough time.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell the nation the truth unlike what he has just said because the facts are in the framework.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, do you have the book you referred to, so you can lay it on the Table?

Interruptions

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, some people may be laughing; this is a serious matter which affects the whole nation. There is a time for making jokes, but this is a serious matter.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I was asking if you have the book.

Rev. Katuta: Why is there this thing of switching off the microphone when somebody is talking, yet people voted for us to talk?

Madam Speaker, this is the framework and the hon. Minister has it. It is in public domain and it is the framework for the Zambian schools’ curriculum from Grade 5 to Grade12. He has it and everyone has it. It is not a confidential document.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

I know this matter affects everyone, but when the hon. Minister was giving a statement, he said that the book is still being processed. He said it is still going through the processes of approval and that what was circulating on social media is actually not the correct book.

So, hon. Member for Chienge, it would have been helpful –

Rev. Katuta rose.

Madam Speaker: Can I finish?

Rev. Katuta resumed her seat.

Madam Speaker: Well, maybe, you did not know that this matter would arise, but it would have been helpful if you laid the book on the Table. It, however, appears you do not have the book.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think you got me right. As you may know, this thing has been going on since 2014 and it has not been validated yet. We have validated something now and if you check the part on Grade 5, you will see that it is about the importance of good family relationships, identification of good family relationships and awareness of family structures. That is the one which is –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, can we pay attention so that when we ask questions, we do not repeat ourselves.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, there is also appreciation of personal family and community values, awareness of sources of information on sexuality and awareness of differences between male and female body parts.

Ms Mulenga interjected.

Mr Syakalima: You have done biology.

Ms Mulenga: It was not in Grade 5, but at secondary school.

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: On sexual behaviour, it is indicated here that this will not be taught. I mean, you are talking to a person who is a Christian. In fact, whilst we were doing the validation, we engaged the southern and eastern –

Amb. Kalimi interjected.

Mr Syakalima: If you are the one who asked the question. So just listen.

Mr Kalimi: Address the Speaker, hon. Minister.

Mr Syakalima: It is the Speaker I am addressing.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Can you not see that I am looking at the Speaker?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let us listen. Hon. Members, when you ask a question, please pay attention to the answer.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, like I said, there was a comprehensive study and stakeholders were engaged. this is something which started in 2014, a long time ago.

Hon. UPND Members: Under PF!

Mr Syakalima: So, it has to undergo, if you like, refinement. This is why even the title has just remained “Comprehensive Sexuality Education”. We are also saying that it becomes a life skills and health education framework. It means just the same, anyway, but it is just because people are afraid to talk about certain things that we all know that they actually happen. When we were doing the review in the southern and eastern Africa over this, I was with Hon. Masebo. We were locked up at Pamodzi Hotel trying to listen to what everybody was saying around the globe. We talked to pastors. Pastors actually called in. Just last year, and I explained –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, I do not want to send anybody outside. So, let us behave ourselves. Let us have order.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I explained and said that if it is the word ‘sexuality’ which is actually a problem, we will remove it. However, what we are trying to talk about is abstinence. As I said, is this not equivalent to telling a kid that there should be no sex before marriage?If we really want to use the word ‘abstinence’, I said we shall put that word so that it goes, but the reality on the ground is obvious. I have moved the width and breadth of this country and I can tell you that children are having sex and becoming pregnant. In one district, I found seventy-eight pregnant girls. Which district is that? There were also eighty-seven –

Mr Kangombe: In the Southern Province.

Mr Syakalima: No, this side (pointing in the northern direction).

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Just in Chibombo nearby, 118 children were pregnant. So, we really need to face this reality because things are happening.

Madam Speaker, when we first started dealing with the Human Immuno-Deficiency Virus/Acquired Immuno-Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS), I will tell you what we did as psychologists. At the time, the church was teaching the theme of A, B, C to do with abstinence and so on and so forth, but we said that people were dying. So, we put up ten injunctions against HIV/AIDS. We used the same bible that says that man does well not to marry, but if you burn with passion, go ahead and marry. We took that teaching into a different direction. We said that our people were dying and, therefore, a man or woman does well not to have casual sex. If you burn with passion, go ahead and use a condom.

Madam Speaker, those were the things that were going to protect society, but society was blind to reality. Therefore, how many people did we lose because we blinded ourselves? We should not blind ourselves even today because children are becoming pregnant. They must be aware of certain things. Once we just teach them not to have sex before marriage, we are already talking about abstinence.

In this regard, Madam Speaker, we are refining all these things. I have told hon. Members that if they still want, they can get involved. This is because the President has called for the review or reforming of the curriculum. Therefore, hon. Members are free to come and present their case. When they present their views, maybe we shall agree with them. So, they are better off listening attentively, rather than complaining. For some of them, as Jesus once said, if you have not done anything wrong yourself, ...

Rev. Katuta: Just remove it!

Mr Syakalima: ...go and do it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Thank you very kind, Madam Speaker. I also thank the hon. Minister for the quick response to this matter, which is in almost all family blogs and people are worried.

Madam Speaker, in his submission, the hon. Minister said that he toured almost all the corners of the country consulting with the clergy and civil society organisations, but nowhere did I hear him say that he consulted hon. Members of Parliament, by the way.

Madam Speaker, this book, which is called Comprehensive Sexuality Education, starts from Grade 5. Sex is not one of the biggest problems that this country is faced with. We have got so many problems in this country. Why does the hon. Minister not consider withdrawing this book and we take resources to needy areas where we have got serious challenges?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, yes, we have got so many problems, insurmountable ones for that matter. However, one of those problems is that once you destroy a girl child, it is permanent. With the 128 kids that I found pregnant, you cannot underestimate this problem. Some of them have been permanently injured. Even when we have this go back to school programme, their psychological standing is permanently injured. I can tell you that there are permanent scars that come out of this. You can only feel pity if you checked on those kids or if you lined up these 128 pregnant children. They are not tomatoes, the way you can count tomatoes or mangoes. Those are kids and probably amongst those kids, you have destroyed the best surgeon in Africa.

Madam Speaker, I still believe that we need to protect children, more so a girl child, in terms of what we are going to do. Otherwise, hon. Members are still invited to come. The hon. Member said that we never consulted hon. Members of Parliament. This started in 2014 and so it means that for the next process which we have now opened again, I can invite the hon. Member in particular.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: You can let it pass through the Committee on Education, Science and Technology and the Committee on Youth, Sport and Child Matters; that is how we do our consultations.

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the quality statement. In 2014, when the Comprehensive Sexuality Framework was approved, the Government had reported 17,000 cases of pregnancy in children, and high rates of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) infections in the 15 to 24 years age group, including 12 per cent for girls and 16 per cent for boys below fifteen, and 60 per cent of the grade six learners did not have adequate knowledge on sexuality education.

Madam Speaker, is the ministry, therefore, not in order to actually include this subject in the curriculum, as we need this validation to actually happen earlier because it has been going on from 2014 when the Government Policy was made to include Comprehensive Sexuality Education (CSE) in the curriculum? It was approved in 2014, but to date, we are still validating it. Can we, then, have the curriculum validated?

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, can you get precisely to the question; you are debating. You are giving too much information. Ask a point of clarification.

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I have actually finished.

Madam Speaker: So, were you commenting or asking a question?

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I asked why the validation is taking long when that policy was adopted in 2014.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think I agree with the hon. Member. As I said earlier, there are a few things that other people argued against, especially the name or the title itself. So, it has been quite a long time. This is the time that we have actually revisited the subject. However, we cannot say that we just withdraw it. Things do not work like that.

Madam Speaker, yes, we found it. However, there are certain things that we must also check and compare with what we find on the ground. That is more of the reason some of the things are not taught. There are some topics that have been written here that are not taught, like “What is appropriate behaviour” and “Awareness of Factors Causing Family Crisis.” These are things that are supposed to be included when we say “comprehensive.” Maybe it will look nicer when it says, “Life Skills and Health Education Framework.”

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, allow me to place on record that I am a believer that times must and always do change. Our children are exposed to all sorts of gadgets. In the advent of social media, children are aware about sex. Unless we allow ourselves to agree that this is a fact, we will be burying our heads in the sand.

Madam Speaker, the question which prompted this particular debate is not a Zambian publication. It comes from a book entitled, ‘Where Did I Come From?’: The Facts of Life Without Any Nonsense and with Illustrations, ...

Rev. Katuta: Question!

Mr Chanda: ... by Peter Mayle Arthur Robins. You can get it on Amazon. It is not a Zambian book.

Madam Speaker, the fact of the matter is that on this matter, just like on the question of abortion, we will never agree. There are those who will be pro and those who will be anti. However, there must be a middle ground. If my child is in grade five or six and is about to attain puberty, I do not want her to get the ugly experiences without certain information. So, the question must be: What amount of information are we giving?

Rev. Katuta interjected.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge, I have been ignoring you. Can this be the last warning. Please, can we have order in the House.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, all of us here are parents, and very responsible ones. How we raise our children calls for a certain level of responsibility. So, the question is whether or not the ministry will give-in to certain pressures when it comes to matters of critical policy considerations.

Madam Speaker, this matter has been on the table from 2014. It has been a raging debate. However, we need to ensure that children are equipped with adequate information. Of course, considering their grade, we know what information to give them. When they are getting to puberty stage, we know what information to give them. We will be an irresponsible society if we are going to allow our children to learn the hard way.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, Hon. Members!

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya is spot-on. It depends on where one is coming from. Sometimes, it is very bad to be pretentious. Things are happening. I cannot go and withdraw the book from Amazon. So, go and tell Amazon to withdraw what it put up and not me.

Madam Speaker, I think pretence is not good. There is a society to save here. What helps society will have to help society. What shows an ugly face of society, we are not going to allow.

Madam Speaker, I tend to think that people went to traditional leaders, who said what they wanted to be contained inside the book; and consulted the church. The pupils themselves are the ones who carry those bodies. They carry their bodies to church and to school, and they spoke for themselves. So, if somebody speaks for himself/herself and is in grade twelve, eleven or ten and says this issue is important to him/her because it is making him/her aware of the consequences of certain things, it is good. However, we know the things that can bring rise to moral degradation. We also know what can help society and future generations. That is what we are talking about here.

Madam Speaker, people must come to terms with reality. I want to agree with the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya that our children know how to operate these gadgets better than many of us. They watch movies and a lot of things on the gadgets. So, we cannot burry our heads in the sand and think that they are not misbehaving; they are. So, there must be an injunction against such behaviours.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, this is, indeed, a very emotive subject. The space between the responsibilities of parents and those of a Government has been contested space since time immemorial.

Madam Speaker, I had a look at a grade five work book, Life Skills Comprehensive Sexual Education, and one of the things that I came across was where they were being taught how to propose love and how to say no. The exercise that was given under one of those topics was that they should go into groups and start acting out how to propose love and how to say no.

Madam Speaker, given that the debate is raging as to how far we should go in powering our children with information that protects them, is the Government ready to reopen this subject so that whilst we agree with the heading we have a closer look at what exactly is being taught in that heading.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, let me go back to what I read when I was almost terminating my submission. I said that the ministry remains open to further submissions, and welcomes any opportunity to raise awareness on Comprehensive Sexuality Education (CSE) with stakeholders, parents, traditional leaders, and religious bodies in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, this is what I read. So, the ministry is still open but people must also, get to the middle line. Perhaps, the question is not answered because it does not state how one can propose love and how one can refuse. This goes with passion.

Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President directed that we reform the curriculum and CSE is one of the career subjects that were included in the curriculum. Such subjects are not taken on their own like it is done in other countries. In Zambia, we get components for instance, of integrated science, religious education (RE), and civic education to form a curriculum. So, this is still happening. You will find that maybe, the next curriculum can have certain contents that probably, will be to your liking.

Madam Speaker, one thing we must bear in mind is that certain things are happening and therefore, we cannot burry ourselves in the sand. Therefore, things that show moral degradation will not be part of this curriculum. However, there are certain things that we, sometimes, think are acceptable just by looking, when in the actual sense, they are not. One would even think of hiding when doing certain things. In fact, the Bible tells us everything about all this.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: This is a very emotive and interesting subject. We cannot finalise it in this short time that we have been given. As I have indicated, the ministry can engage hon. Members of Parliament in our various Committees that will be interested to deal with that matter to have an input. Maybe, a workshop or something for hon. Members of Parliament can also be helpful. Those are my suggestions which the ministry can look at.

Let us now go to the last one. The hon. Member for Pambashe and the hon. Member for Lumezi raised a similar matter regarding sugilite. Even yesterday, there were people who talked about sugilite. I know it is a matter that is under investigations. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to whom the matter was directed is not here, but I can see the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development in the House. I do not want to speak on behalf of the hon. Ministers. If there are investigations that are ongoing, that can also be stated in the statement. So, the hon. Minister of Mines and Mineral Development can come back to the House with a statement to explain what is happening, on Friday, 3rd March, 2023.

 Hon. Opposition Members: This week!

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

It is not possible to have that statement this week. You know, we have already received the Business of the House for this week. So, I am guided that Friday, 3rd March, 2023, will be the appropriate time. Anyway, it will also allow the hon. Minister and the investigations to take some form, so that the hon. Minister can come to the House with full information. That concludes matters of urgent public importance today. Let us now go to the next item.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Can we have some order.

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

STATUS OF CONTRACTS FOR THE REHABILITATION OF FEEDER ROADS IN ZAMBIA

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, as a result of the several questions that have been brought on the Floor of this House regarding the contracts for feeder roads and unending questions, you directed me to come to this House and give a comprehensive statement.

Madam Speaker, let me begin by expressing my gratitude for the opportunity that you have presented to me and the ministry to present this ministerial statement regarding the status of contracts for the rehabilitation of feeder roads that have been implemented by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, that I am privileged to superintend over. 

Madam Speaker, the ministry is charged with, among many things, the responsibility of facilitating the construction, rehabilitation and maintenance of feeder or rural roads in the country that are in the jurisdiction of local authorities. Hon. Members of this House will agree that feeder roads create a vital link for delivery of social and economic services particularly, to rural communities, and significantly, contribute to inclusive economic growth of our country.

Madam Speaker, for this reason, the Government remains resolute in its commitment to developing the feeder roads network in the country. However, the Government can only deliver feeder roads within the available resources to avoid causing distortions in the economy. Therefore, it becomes prudent that contract management and compliance to the Public Procurement Act are very paramount. 

Madam Speaker, in an endeavor to improve the rural road connectivity, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing then, between 2014 and 2021, as it transformed to the Ministry of Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, procured 240 feeder road contracts to rehabilitate approximately 9,436.05 km of feeder roads. This amounted to K12,913,458,980.02 in terms of contract values. You may wish to note that these contracts, in some instances, included crossing points, small bridges, and other road infrastructure.

Madam Speaker, as at December, 2022, the total certified works of the contracts were valued at K4,231,524,386.36. I wish to state that the total budget allocation for the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development from 2014 to 2021, was K1,939,000.04, broken down as follows:

Year                          Budgeted Amount for MLGRID

                                             K’Million

2014                                     369.62

2015                                     259.55

2016                                     315.41

2017                                     260.00

2018                                     260.00

2019                                     150.42

2020                                     204.21

2021                                     119.83

Total                                     1,939.04

This is against a procured amount K12.9 billion.

Madam Speaker, despite the clearly stated budget for the feeder roads, the Government went ahead and procured works beyond the available resources as I have just demonstrated. The procurement was done through both open and selective tendering.

Madam Speaker, given the position I have highlighted, it became apparent that the Government could not sustain this level of commitment based on the annual budget allocation that was ring-fenced year by year by the appropriated monies through the various appropriation acts in these years. This resulted in increased Government debt to contractors compounded by interests accruing on the outstanding debt. The ministry, therefore, needed to put in place measures to curb the growth of the debt associated with feeder road contracts.

Madam Speaker, in so doing, the ministry obtained the services of an independent consulting engineering firm from the Association of Consulting Engineers of Zambia to undertake an exercise of audit which included the following terms of reference:

  1. review the procurement process followed to contract out the 240 contracts;
  2. assess the status of all contracts at 80 per cent and above, and explore the most effective way to bring these contracts to closure;
  3. assess contracts at levels of completion between 40 per cent and 80 per cent with a view to re-scoping or down-sizing, and promoting them to the above 80per cent bracket;
  4. assess contracts between 20 per cent and 40per cent with a view to negotiate suspension and re-alignment to the 2022-2023 Work Plans. These contracts would be re-tendered after the first right of refusal is given to the current contract holders;
  5. assess contracts between 1 per cent and 20per cent execution with a view to negotiate termination; and
  6. discuss with provincial local authority engineers with a view to establishing the criticality of certain works to the communities being served.

Madam Speaker, based on the findings, the consultant made the following recommendations:

  1. terminate projects with certification of 20 per cent and below, most of which would be at the mobilisation stage and not much physical progress in terms of work had been recorded;
  2. for projects with certification between 20 per cent and 40 per cent, the ministry to either negotiate amendments to the contracts to include a suspension close or to terminate the contracts altogether. The objective would be to permit the ministry to source funds for projects in subsequent annual plans;
  3. for projects with certification between 41 per cent and 80 per cent, the ministry to consider completion of the projects, but with a reduced scope for the remaining works; and
  4. the ministry to consider completing projects with over 80 per cent certification, as the implementation of such projects would be at an advanced stage.

Madam Speaker, I wish to remind the House that at the time the ministry contracted Zulu Burrow Independent Consulting Engineers who provided the service pro bono, there was an outcry from hon. Members on your left-hand side, who did not find it a good and plausible way to proceed, as most of them who were concerned thought that we were spending money and it would have been money going to waste. Some of them even asked us as to how we managed to find and appoint this independent consultant without any tendering procedure. I wish to re-emphasis that the service was given pro bono by Zulu Burrow Independent Consulting Engineers.

Madam Speaker, following the report by the independent consultant, the ministry decided to terminate all non-performing contracts, and not to renew all the expiring contracts. We waited for the latter, for the contracts to do their time, after which we were unavailable to renew them and, therefore, they ceased to exist. With that in mind, the ministry embarked on an initial step of terminating a number of contracts countrywide by issuing a notice of contract termination to the contractors whose contracts were due for termination. This was to effectively manage the over commitment of debt that was accrued by those who were there before us.

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this House that as at December, 2022, my ministry terminated 197contracts out of240contracts. The total length of feeder roads under the terminated contracts is approximately 7,685 km. The terminated contracts were valued at K10,448,310,915.14. Out of the certified amount of K4,231,524,386, the certified works for the terminated contracts are estimated atK2.9 million. Of the certified amount, the amount paid before notice of termination wasK1.8 million.

Madam Speaker, arising from the foregoing, the hon. Members may wish to note that forty-three contracts that had not been terminated have since expired. These contracts are valued at K2.4 billion and were to facilitate works on 1,750km of feeder roads.

Madam Speaker, it should be noted that the 240 contractors have been requested to submit final accounts, and this process is ongoing. I wish to state that the final value of owed amounts to the contractors will be determined once all final accounts have been received and reviewed in collaboration with the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA).

Madam Speaker, I also wish to state that there are a number of contracts, terminated and expired, that are before the investigative wing of Government to check how they were procured, how much work was done and most of all, which applies to most of the contracts, how much work was done against the advance payment. I wanted to make this very clear that in most of these contracts, money had been paid even before any work was done.

Madam Speaker, in view of the terminated contracts, my ministry is cognisant of the fact that some selected areas may require emergency works to be undertaken to provide accessibility and connectivity, especially now that we have had above normal rainfall and torrential rains. We are also expecting the typhoon in this region which brings the need to be more alert and more prepared to assist our citizens with connectivity depending on how meritorious the case may be. This is in relation to the disasters that we have already experienced, the current disasters and those that we may face in the not so distant future.

Madam Speaker, the key consideration under this includes works on selected bridges that have been washed away and crossing points that are adversely affected by the floods that I have just referred to. Going forward, the ministry shall continue to rationalise the process of implementing feeder road programmes. The ministry is now encouraging all the local authorities to take advantage of the enhanced flagship programme of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to purchase their own fleet of the full set of earth moving equipment and other road construction equipment so that they can undertake feeder road construction to reduce the cost of doing these roads.

Madam Speaker, it must be very clearly stated that what was thegoing rate of constructing of a kilometre road of high grade gravel road was also inflated, extremely inflated. We benchmarked it against the Zambia National Service (ZNS) to include the profit that is supposed to be made, and our findings were that the costs of these feeder roads were, as a matter of fact, extremely inflated. It will be the role of the Government to ensure that all councils, once they procure the requisite equipment for periodic maintenance and grading of these roads, that they have sufficient fuel. I can bet my last kwacha that we will make a huge saving as a country, much more than what I have just illustrated this afternoon in terms of the debt that the procurement that was gotten and the debt that was accrued from these contracts, which is my view and my ministry’s view, were done in less careful manner, or to say it as it is, in a very reckless manner by the previous Government.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I reiterate Government’s commitment through the ministry that I am privileged to run, that we are going to ensure the sustainable provision of feeder roads to catalyse socio-economic development in our country. Equally important to this, we will endeavour to harmonise the feeder road contracts and address the issue of debt that we are not going to run away from. However, we will make sure that only those who did work are paid. There is a lot of reconciliation that has to be done because it is very clear from the inspection that was conducted at the time we took over office, that money was paid in many instances and the work was not done. Where it was done, it was actually shoddy to the extent that I am very straight to the point about this, that there was money that was not put to good use under these contracts and the Government has lost.

Madam Speaker, let me conclude by also saying that it became inevitable to stop these contracts because the manner in which they were being awarded was based on patronage. I can prove what I am saying today. Today is the day, if I were to be dared,I am more than prepared to say which members of our society are associated with these road contracts, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: ... some of whom are here.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: I beg to move, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Let us avoid debating ourselves hon. Members.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, my concern is on the Government losing money through these contracts. The standard contract that I have known in the past twenty years that I have been in this sector protects the Government. Hon. Kapala is my witness as a consultant. There are two points. It is either a contractor is paid an advance payment in exchange for an advance payment bond. In which case, in case of default, where there is no work at all, the Government will cash the bond and it can get the money. In the case where there is an Interim Payment Certificate (IPC), this certificate is signed by a consultant who is recruited by Government. If there is a payment that has been signed where is no work, the Government can still, first of all, get from a performance bond executed by a consultant. Is there evidence that there is one consultant who has been taken to court for having signed an IPC and a contractor was paid where no work was done.

Madam Speaker, I want us to be very clear. It is very important because there has been deception by our friends on your right calling contractors criminals, making them look like having a contract is a crime in Zambia. A contract is just a business, it is normal business. The fact that hon. Members on your left have had contracts there is no crime at all.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I am one of those contractors that has been doing business with the Government for twenty years. I was only a Minister for five years, but I did business for twenty years, meaning the last fifteen years was out of Government. So, my question is: Could the hon. Minister be very clear and tell us at what point the Government lost money. What contract was used in that particular transaction? Which consultant is before court today for having signed an IPC where no work was done?

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we debate, please, let us not debate ourselves. I know that this is an emotive matter. Let us debate with reason.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to answer the hon. Leader of Opposition on what seemingly is a very emotive question he is putting forward.

Madam Speaker, it is a convention in the common wealth that if you are an interested party in a matter under discussion, the maiden thing that you do is to declare an interest, ...

Ms Mulenga: He already has.

Mr Nkombo: ... as he should have– excuse me–

Madam Speaker: Order!

Let us listen.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, maybe I should resume my seat and allow the hon. Leader of Opposition, who seems to have forgotten to declare interest, declare this interest. However, my point is that when you are discussing–

Madam Speaker: Order! Hon. Minister, since you have called on the hon. Leader of the Opposition to declare interest, let him declare interest then, as indicated.

Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I am a member in two companies that have been in construction business with the Government for the past twenty-five years. One company is called Build Trust Construction Limited and the other one is Omni Contractors Limited. The two companies have done business for over twenty years, even outside the term that I served in the Government. I, therefore, declare interest on the Floor of this House.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the chickens are coming home to roost.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: I want to thank the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the House, for this belated declaration of interest on a subject that we have been discussing for a very long time. I thank my colleague, and I want to encourage him to also encourage members of his party who are in his category to do likewise.

Now, coming to his question, Madam Speaker, he is asking me: “How much money did consultants lose in the contraction of these contracts that are run –”

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: I am sorry: “How much money did the Government lose in these contracts that I just explained this afternoon.”

Madam Speaker, I know that there were, in certain instances, as I said, contracts that were awarded by open tender and others by selective bidding. I also know that there is a provision for bringing a Performance Bond. I know all that. The fact of the matter is that he asking me which consultant is below which organ of the law to answer charges of non-performance. Here is my answer: All these contracts were self-supervising.

Mr Mundubile: No!

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Excuse me.

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Mundubile: Never!

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Allow me –

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: He asked a question.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Hon. Members, I do not need support.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

Mr Nkombo: This is a piece of cake for me.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members! Can we have some order!

Mr Nkombo: Allow me to just answer –

Madam Speaker: Let the hon. Minister answer first. He just mentioned. So, the point of order is premature.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, there is absolutely no need for excitement. I am saying that most of these contracts were self-supervising, and I am going to explain. Interim Payment Certificates (IPCs) were signed by Directors of Engineering in respective local authorities. In most of those contracts, the people who generated the IPCs were the Directors of Engineering. We have interacted with them. That is the information that we have. The only other person who came to sign the IPCs was the Provincial Roads Engineer. I hope I got the nomenclature of the job correctly. This is the reason I am saying that most of these contracts did not even have consultants. They were self-supervising. I still anchor on that position.

Now, if Build Trust Construction Limited and Omni Contractors Limited, the companies that the Leader of the Opposition in the House belongs to, had a consultant, that does not mean that all of them had consultants, unless he tells me that he was privy to the details of all the 240 contracts. He could not have been privy to the details of all the 240 contracts. He has details of his two companies, Omni Contractors Limited, as I have learnt now, and Build Trust, as I knew from a long time ago.

That is my response, Madam Speaker.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: It appears that today, we are going to debate ourselves. We are going against our own set rules of procedure. We cannot debate ourselves. So, please, as you ask questions, do not ask questions relating to any hon. Member seated in this House because that will be in breach of our own rules.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that statement. I think it is not in dispute that the demand for improved rural connectivity is very high in this country. The first and second Governments neglected rural roads in the past forty-five or forty-eight years. It is no wonder we have this high demand from people in rural areas also looking for better roads.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is encouraging local authorities to buy road construction equipment. I know that high quality road construction equipment is quite expensive. Is the hon. Minister trying to engage the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to allow equipment bought under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to come in at zero-rate Import Duty so that, at least, they are affordable?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Chama North for such a constructive intervention.

Madam Speaker, in agreeing with you that we should not debate ourselves, I wish to use the English adage that “those who live in glass houses, should not walk around naked.” “Those who live in glass houses should also not throw stones.”

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: I will duly confer with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to make that very decent request to give all road construction equipment a zero-rate facility on import. I think that it is achievable. Those are the constructive questions that we need from people who do checks and balances.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

There is a point of order. Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, you have come in, though.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65.

Madam Speaker, I am happy that the Leader of the Opposition in the House has led the way because there have been many innuendos. We want to see the same. As they say, he who comes to equity must come with clean hands. So, we need to have a balanced debated on this matter. The Leader of the Opposition in the House has led the way. We want to see the same from the other side.

My point of order, Madam Speaker, on the hon. Minister is on the information that he can discuss with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to agree on zero-rating road construction equipment.

This august House, Madam Speaker, appropriates and makes tax measures annually. What law would the hon. Minister use to zero-rate?

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: We have been hon. Members of Parliament here for a long time.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: So, just keep quiet and listen.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members.

Hon. Opposition Whip, please, do not engage other hon. Members of Parliament. Speak through the Speaker and raise your point of order while other hon. Members listen quietly.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the procedure is that when we do appropriations and the budget is approved, we get to also make tax laws, here. What law is the hon. Minister relying on that he can negotiate with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to zero-rate equipment for road works mid financial year? Is he in order to mislead a few hon. Members of the House who might not understand the implications of what he has said and the public out there?

I seek your serious guidance, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, when issues of tax laws are debated or are brought before this House, there is somebody who initiates that process. So, what the hon. Minister is saying is that he will initiate that process by engaging into a discussion with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Once they have agreed and find it acceptable, then they will bring it up to the House …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: … and pass the necessary laws to enforce. So, that is how things go. Let them go and consult. We cannot stop the hon. Minister from consulting.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, from 2014 to 2021, an average budget allocation for contracts was K200 million. The average amount for procured contracts per year was K1.5 billion, which is an indirect violation of the provisions of the Public Finance Management Act, which specifically provides in Section 49, financial misconduct by the controlling officers, committees and office holders, and Section 52, surcharges for failure by office holder to perform duty assigned.

Madam Speaker, is the ministry alongside this audit, considering invoking the provisions of Section 49, which talks about financial misconduct, for the people who participated in this procurement exceeding the provisions of the budget, which is not limited to disciplinary action, but even criminal procedures? Is that something the ministry is going to consider after the audit is done?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, let me begin by saying that budgeting is never an event. Just like legislation, it is a process. The process begins at a certain point and ends at another point. However, I would like to thank the hon. Member for saving my skin from the point of order by the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu. Nevertheless, the engagement on zero-rating will happen.  

Madam Speaker, let me now come to the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena. We are not only talking about the violation of the Public Finance Management Act. Most of these contracts were void not acquired through the Treasury authority, which is criminal enough.

Madam Speaker, the audit finished a long time ago, and that is why it is prudent that as we get to the conclusive end of this process, we will then learn more about those who are drowning in the noise of unfair treatment. The abrogation of the various Appropriation Acts of the years 2014 through to 2020 and 2021, the year of the Lord, when the Government changed, is criminal enough.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I am answering the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena Constituency. In all these years, going by the figures that I have shared, it is clear that the Government that was there then, had no respect whatsoever, on what its President assented to in the Appropriation Bill, which became law.

Madam Speaker, funds are ring-fenced once the budget process comes to an end in this House. Therefore, anybody who goes beyond what is budgeted for, outside of Treasury Authority, commits an offence.

Mr Mulunda: Correct!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, it is prudent that while we are still smiling at each other, it is best that people do not drown in the noise. In Tonga we say, Kabaunge bakali baka wale. In English it means, go and influence the tough ones, they will throw the first stone.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.  

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according me this opportunity to rise on this very important point of order based on Standing Order No. 65, which refers to the content of speech and of course, against the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

Madam Speaker, I am very concern with the manner in which the hon. Minister is speaking. When a Government Minister speaks, not only this Assembly but even out there, it is expected that he ought to talk about the policy. That is what I expect. That is what I was taught when I became a minister.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Mulenga: That is why mulefililwa.

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, why would a hon. Minister trivialise an important subject? Why should a subject which affects millions of Zambians be trivialised? Why should an hon. Minister talk about a contract which can take five years and marry it to twelve months of the budget?

Madam Speaker, we know that the budgets which we pass here, which end up in an Appropriation Act, are for a period of twelve months. Those contracts –

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, what is the point of order?

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, why should an hon. Minister  trivialise an important matter in this fashion, to consider a contract which can run even up to seven years, in a budget of twelve months. Is he in order? Is my hon. Colleague, the senior hon. Member of Parliament, Hon. Nkombo, in order to state that these contracts needed to confined to a period of twelve months when we know that a road can even take five years?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, from what I heard, the hon. Minister said that there was some money which was budgeted for these contracts for a certain period. These contracts were contracted over and above the amount that was –

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Do you want me to rule or you want to rule, hon. Member for Shiwang’andu,

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, you did not hear what he said.

Madam Speaker: I heard what the hon. Minister was saying. From what he was saying, I cannot rule that he was trivialising the matter. He was speaking with a lot of passion and I am sure you know how the hon. Minister talks.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I was giving an additional comment to the Public Management Act that my hon. Colleague referred to. I also referred to the Appropriation Bill. I do not know what is trivial about that?

Madam Speaker, maybe, on a lighter note, my mother told me never to point fingers at elderly people like me, Hon. Kafwaya.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, it is always good to be cordial with one another. So, it will be nice if the hon. Member withdrew his finger so that we remain cordial. It is quite disrespectful –

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lunte, please, can you resume your seat.

Mr Kafwaya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lunte, please, resume your seat.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I expected your protection –

Madam Speaker: We are wasting a lot of time. There are other hon. Members who would want to ask questions.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I expected a lot of protection from you –

Mr Kafwaya interjected.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister said that it was on a lighter note. So, you can follow up those other issues later. When you leave the House, you can discuss further.

Mr Nkombo: If he should just withdraw the finger.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, can we get to business.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, coming back to what the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu said, I think that probably, he may have answered his own question because he was anchoring on the law.

Madam Speaker, from the figures I gave, it was clear that there was no respect of the Appropriation Bill. That is how come the total procured roads were 1,400 per cent, which was more than what was budgeted for.

Madam Speaker, what makes it worse is that during the period 2019 to 2020, towards the elections, these contracts just became too many for the Patriotic Front (PF) members. Let me put it as it is and let me be challenged. If they wish me to give them the list of all the PF members who were associated with these contracts, they should be my guests, and I will gladly do that.  There is no contest when I talk about selective tender which is within the law. The fact is that they gifted themselves with contracts.

Madam Speaker, to add in the injury, when I first brought a report in the House, about how they drew these contracts, I was also clear how they denied certain regions work. These regions got contracts as follows: The Southern Province, two contracts, the Western Province, two contracts, the North-Western Province, zero contract, the Eastern Province, fifty-six contracts, Luapula –

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: I beg your pardon.

Madam Speaker, I am mentioning this because I am traumatised with the manner in which the previous Government was running this affair.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, there was an abrogation of the Constitution in the distribution of development to our country.  This gives more reason we had to terminate those contracts. We invite them –

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I had just finished answering the question.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister encouraging hon. Members to procure earth-moving equipment to rehabilitate the feeder roads in the constituencies. That is indeed a very good idea, and in Zambezi, we are considering doing that this year. However, I want to ask the hon. Minister if that is possible. The procurement of vehicles using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was centrally done, and there is a benefit in doing that because we benefitted from economies of scale. However, each constituency procuring different types of equipment will ultimately be expensive for the country. Why do we not take the approach of centrally buying earth-moving equipment according to the submissions that will be made by each constituency, so that we can benefit from both taxes?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, taking full advantage of economies of scale is the correct way of thinking. So, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East for making that suggestion.

Madam Speaker, we would be more than glad if we got consensus. This sector of our economy has generated so much interest because of its own need from our society. Last year, we procured motor vehicles for monitoring and evaluation, using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). This was done after we had gathered a reasonable amount of consensus at least, from your Committee, which you appointed to help the ministry to finalise the regulation surrounding the utilisation of the CDF. Some unscrupulous members of our society, from the Patriotic Front (PF),– I am sorry to say this because I am asked these questions – scandalised me on social media that I had bought some Land Cruisersand I had pocketed money, yet I am nowhere near–

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: The one who said this was Mr Emmanuel Mwamba, in case you now want me to mention names. It is written everywhere.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I have even been taken to court for the action of centrally procuring motor vehicles for monitoring and evaluation. Yesterday, I said that there was a dichotomy between providing checks and balances and wanting to run a Government behind the doors. This is a clear example of people wanting to hijack a process when it makes sense to procure centrally.

Madam Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, you have said enough. I think whoever is supposed to hear has heard. However, a point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I reluctantly rise on this point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 65, and in addition, our customs and rules in the House, which do not permit us as hon. Members to mention people who cannot come here to defend themselves.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central, who is also the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development, in order to insinuate that members of the Patriotic Front (PF), scandalised him on social media over the matter of procuring motor vehicles for constituencies? You ruled here that social media cannot be relied upon. Is the hon. Minister in order–

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, there are so many people on your right trying to assist you.

Madam Speaker: And I cannot help overhearing.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Proceed, hon. Member.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order, first of all, to bring up a matter he said is before the courts of law? Is he also in order to allege that members of the PF, who have representatives in this august House to speak for them, are the ones who frustrated his effort to buy motor vehicles using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF)? More importantly, we do not cite people who cannot come here to defend themselves.

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling on that matter.

Madam Speaker: As I earlier guided, we should not debate ourselves, and the rules of this House do not allow us to mention people who are not in this House. Therefore, it was not in order for the hon. Minister to mention somebody who is not here to defend himself. However, the matter we are discussing is in court, so I cannot comment any further.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I had finished making my statement. However, I would like to withdraw the name of Mr Emmanuel Mwamba wholeheartedly from the debate in to order to remain in good books with the House. Going forward, I will not speak about hon. Members who cannot defend themselves on the Floor of the House.

 

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much for that undertaking. I will use my discretion and ask the hon. Member for Kasama Central to ask a question. She has been quiet for some time.

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Thank you very much for the opportunity, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker, having looked at this whole issue, I note that we have people on the left and on the right with different points of view. We also have the innocent contractors who have running contracts. Is the hon. Minister ready for the legal implications of the numerous terminations of contracts and how much has been set aside for the possible lawsuits the ministry may face?

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, in the English language, there is an adage that says, “adventure by misadventure. A few days ago, I challenged any interested party who felt they had a legal recourse to pursue the termination of contracts to approach the courts and they will find the ministry at the courts.

Madam Speaker, the ministry conducted a due diligence on all the contracts. As far as we were concerned, the most prudent action was to discontinue the contracts. So, I would like to invite all the aggrieved parties to expressly approach the courts. Then, what I have been desirous to know– remember I have stated before that these people have been hiding. They do not come to the ministry offices. This is not the first time I have said this. When they are pursuing payments, they send people whom they think are friends with ministry officials.

Madam Speaker, so going to court would give us an opportunity to come eye ball to eye ball with those individuals.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon.  Kampyongo: Question!

Mr Nkombo: I am glad today, Madam Speaker, that at least, we have crossed the rubicon.The Leader of the Opposition in the House has made a public announcement after one year and eight months, ...

Rev. Katuta: Question!

Mr Nkombo: … that he is an interested party. We are urging them all to come forth and more so to go to court.

Madam Speaker, it is easy to say “question” when you are blocked in terms of –I am sorry, I would have said something that is not palatable. I withdraw my statement.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev Katuta: Say it, I will respond.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I am glad that this session has ended. I can describe it as emotive. However, I am sure that we have released some of the energies that we had. Please, continue engaging the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development if you still have burning questions. I am sure he is amenable to be approached in that manner. Let us make progress.

________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PLANS TO RECONSTRUCT WINTER MULEYA STADIUM IN KABWE

156. Mr Mushanga (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts:

  1. whether the Government has any plans to reconstruct the Winter Muleya Stadium in Kabwe District;
  2. if so, when the project will commence; and
  3. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Information and Media (Ms Kasanda) (on behalf of The Minister of Youth, Sport and Art (Mr Sikumba)): Madam Speaker, the ministry has continued to prioritise sports infrastructure development as an essential aspect of sports development. The Government, through the ministry’s national sports infrastructure plan, has proposed to construct and rehabilitate sports facilities at national, provincial and district levels, including the Winter Muleya Stadium in Kabwe District.

Madam Speaker, the ministry is engaging different stakeholders to support its plan to construct and rehabilitate national, provincial and district diverse sports infrastructure which includes football stadia, basketball and volleyball courts. Therefore, the reconstruction of the Winter Muleya Stadium in Kabwe District will only commence once funds are secured either through the Treasury or the public-private partnership (PPP).

Madam Speaker, the response to part (c)of the question is as stated in (b).

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, in responding to part (b)of the question, the hon. Minister indicated that the Winter Muleya Stadium would be considered when funds become available. I am aware that the Government through the Federation for International Football Association (FIFA) is constructing stadia in the Northern Province, Kasama to be specific, in the Eastern Province, it is in Chipata and Livingstone in the Southern Province, if I am not mistaken.

Madam Speaker, would it not be prudent, maybe, to engage FIFA so that the stadium in Kabwe District is attended to? I know that the ministry is aware that the Government has no stadium that is under its care in Central Province. So, is there any chance of engaging FIFA?

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, if it is feasible, we will consider that. However, as I stated earlier on, we will only commence once funds are available.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, is there a timeframe when funds will be available because this stadium is not only for the people of Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency but the entire Kabwe District.

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, funds are given according to priority. We cannot give a timeframe at this moment. However, we will look into in the next phase.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, we appreciate the responses from the Acting hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Arts.

Madam Speaker, she stated in her response that one of the options could be a public-private partnership (PPP) model to try and put up this sports infrastructure. Has the ministry done any preliminary work to see how viable this option is, looking at the locality and the business entities that could be interested?

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, may I take the hon. Minister back to my response.

Interruptions

Ms Kasanda: I am sorry, it is the hon. Member of Parliament. (Laughs) I am just promoting him, once again.

Ms Mulenga interjected.

Laughter

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, may I take the hon. Member of Parliament back to my response. He may wish to note that the ministry is engaging different stakeholders. That was my response. We are engaging different stakeholders. That is the response that we are giving today.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

CONSTRUCTION OF THE MAGISTRATES COURT COMPLEX IN CHAMA

157. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

  1. why the construction of the Magistrates Court Complex in Chama District, which is at 90 per cent completion, has stalled;
  2. when the project will resume;
  3. what the total cost of the outstanding works is; and
  4. what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

Madam Speaker: The Acting hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, maybe you have not seen me, but I am substantive.

Madam Speaker: I am so sorry. I am living in yesterday; my apologies.

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the construction of the Magistrates Court Complex in Chama District, which is at 80 per cent, not 90 per cent as indicated in the question, stalled due to delayed payments caused by erratic funding to the project.

Madam Speaker, works will resume once a new contract is awarded.                                                                        Madam, the total cost for the outstanding works on the expired contract is K2,715,088.16.

Madam Speaker, the estimated time frame for the completion of the outstanding works is six months.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response. It is true that this particular complex should have been completed a long time ago and now, it is even facing vandalism. I am aware that what is remaining is connecting power and water as well as putting tiles, painting, plumbing and furniture. Therefore, is the hon. Minister informing the people of Chama that in the 2023 National Budget, the same as been included, since he is saying that “when the contract will be awarded?”

Eng. Milupi: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: That is one of the shortest answers that I have ever heard in this House. When you see Chama North, you always see Chama South; the Siamese twins.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, this magistrate court is actually at 99 per cent complete. Even the undercoat paints were applied. All it needs is the final coat and, probably, just commissioning and handing over to the magistrate who has been sent there, who is now using a council chamber. Is the hon. Minister in a position to give hope to the people of Chama that, probably, within a month – and not give a yes answer – they will be able to have this wonderful structure handed over to them?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think I can give more details rather than just say yes.

Madam Speaker, the project contract was in the sum of K4,915,036.82. As we said, our assessment is that the project is at 80 per cent completion and not 99 per cent. The name of the contractor is Jonda Contractors Limited of Chipata. This project commenced on 7th March, 2014, and the initial contract period was nine months.

Madam Speaker, the project completion date was revised several times due to erratic funding, resulting in slow progress of works on site. The contract has expired due to the lapse of time and outstanding works will be undertaken under a new contract.

Madam Speaker, funding for the project, and that is why the last answer was just a simple yes, is provided for in the 2023 Budget for the completion of outstanding works under the Judiciary, who are the project clients. The amount certified to date is K2,199,948.66 and all has been paid to the contractor. The process of procuring a new contract is currently underway. I cannot be clearer than that to assure the people of Chama that this will be done in 2023.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, Jonda Contractors Limited is a local contractor and has done a very good job. Is the ministry going to consider it again since the hon. Minister is said that the contract expired? Is it going to be considered so that it can complete those works?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, well, I do not know whether it is local. This project is in Chama and I stated that Jonda Contractors Limited is from Chipata. This particular contract expired and what I said is that the process of contracting another contractor has started. If it is open, it will be open to competition. I am sure, if it is prepared to also put in a bid, it will be considered, but I cannot certify who is going to get it at the moment. That would be highly improper.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, my question is quite similar to the one asked earlier. Considering that about 80 or 90 per cent of the work has been done on this project, would it not be prudent for the Government to consider awarding the same contractor the work, so that it can quickly expedite its finishing?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lukashya, the State Counsel. When a contract is being awarded, all factors are taken into consideration, including history, ability to undertake the work and availability of machinery and equipment. Everything is taken into consideration and, in this particular case, everything will be taken into consideration.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

TREASURY AUTHORITY TO PAY TEACHERS IN SCHOOLS IN FEIRA

158. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) (on behalf of Mr E. Tembo (Feira)) asked the Minister of Education:

  1. why the following Schools in Feira Parliamentary Constituency had not been granted treasury authority to pay teachers, as of November, 2021:
  1. Kapoche Secondary;
  2. Kapoche Special;
  3. Kaunga Secondary;
  4. Kaunga B Primary;
  5. Chimutengo Primary;
  6. Feira Day Secondary;
  7. Kakaro Day Secondary;
  8. Chankasi Primary;
  9. Kaluluzi Primary; and
  10. Mandombe Primary.
  11. what has caused the delay in granting the Schools treasury authority; and
  1. when the Schools will be granted treasury authority.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Kapoche Secondary, Kapoche Special, Kaunga Secondary, Kaunga B Primary, Chimutengo Primary, Feira Day Secondary; Kakaro Day Secondary, Chankasi Primary, Kaluluzi Primary; and Mandombe Primary schools had not been granted Treasury Authority as of November, 2021, because of financial constraint.

Madam Speaker, you may now wish to note that the Government, during the Net Teacher Recruitment of 30,496 teachers granted Treasury Authority to the schools involving –

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!  

There is too much talking and whispering. You are not listening to the answers. How you going to ask follow-up questions if you are not even listening to answers? Please, can you pay attention.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the Government, during the Net Teacher Recruitment of 30,496 teachers, granted Treasury Authority to schools involving forty-eight teachers. On average, this is four teachers per school.

Madam Speaker, the financial constrains at that time caused the delay in granting Treasury Authority. Due to the response in part (a), part (c) falls away.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, there are teachers who have been transferred to Feira and due to the fact that Treasury Authority has not been granted, these teachers have to come to Lusaka to get their salaries, which is costly on their part. What is the Government doing to address that issue?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think it is only prudent for the Government to do what it is expected to do so that teachers can stop travelling from Feira to Lusaka to get their salaries. The distance from Feira to Lusaka is quite long. So, we will do everything possible to make sure that teachers do not travel long distances to access their salaries.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Ms S. Mwamba (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, this question was asked in November, 2021, in this House and nothing was done. It is now February, 2023 and the same question has been brought back to the House but no Treasury Authority has been granted. Are we not also trying to involve more teachers in scandals like going to ukwangula cimpapila during schools hours?

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Ukwangula cimpapila means what?

Laughter

Ms Mwamba: Madam Speaker, we can term it as an excuse for banking classes. However, cimpapila is a vegetable.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think the motivation to ask that question was really about cimpapila and not what the hon. Member is saying. I had indicated that those primary schools had not been granted Treasury Authority as of November, 2021, because of financial constraints at that time. I went further to say that the Government, during the Net Teacher Recruitment of 30,496 teachers granted Treasury Authority to the schools involving forty-eight teachers. On average, it is four teachers per school. So, I answered that question.

Madam Speaker, however, let me take advantage of the same cimpapila issue to sound a warning to teachers. You are on your own and if you become mischievous – Teaching is a noble profession. You know the ethics that you were taught when you were in college. There is also the Teaching Profession Act which stipulates how a teacher should behave.  

Madam Speaker, obviously, the normal routine of sanctioning people who leave the schools will take place. Those teachers who think they can misbehave and become mischievous by leaving the children without any lessons in schools will be dealt with. Head teachers should also be held accountable. How can a teacher runaway from the school for two years? It is unacceptable. So, this is a warning to all the teachers that any mischief – They must understand that there are other teachers who are not employed who are roaming the streets. So, if they are given an opportunity to work, and they start doing things, that is unacceptable.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, it will not matter who they are and where they come from. Across the board, teachers must behave like teachers. This is not an empty warning. Anyone who does that will be dealt with.  How can a head teacher allow that to happen in a school? So, who looks after the school? I think that is why it is important that all promotions are checked. We need to know how such people rose to positions of head teacher. 

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question because it has given me space to again, warn all the teachers of all creed and kind.

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: Of course, we follow procedure. One teacher even told the District Education Boards Secretaries (DEBS) that they did well to follow him because he was looking for a transfer.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order! Let us not debate while seated. Otherwise, you will be asking for a transfer.

Laughter

MEASURES TO REDUCE POWER OUTAGES IN CHIFUNABULI

159. Ms Nyemba (Chifunabuli) asked the Minister of Energy:

  1. whether the Government has any plans of tapping power from Pensulo Power Station in Serenje District to improve power distribution in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency; and
  2. what measures the Government is taking to reduce load shedding and power outages in the Constituency.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, the Government has no plans to tap power from Pensulo Power Station to supply Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency. However, the Government has plans to reinforce and improve the power supply for the entire Luapula province. The plan includes the improvement of power supply in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency and surrounding communities using an alternative and more cost effective transmission line project which is known as Luano-Mansa Transmission Line project.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, the Government has no plans of tapping power from Pensulo Sub-station to supply to Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency. However, the Government has plans to reinforce and improve the power supply for the entire Luapula Province. The plan includes the improvement of power supply in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency and the surrounding communities using an alternative and more cost-effective transmission line project, which is known as the Luano/Mansa Transmission Line Project.

Madam Speaker, there is no load shedding in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency. However, there have been instances of power outages particularly in the last few weeks that were caused by faults arising from fallen distribution line poles. To improve the power supply in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency, ZESCO Limited is in the short-term intensifying maintenance operations to ensure the continuity of electricity supply and that any faults are attended to within the shortest possible period. In the long term, ZESCO Limited will construct a 330 kV transmission line from Luano to Mansa to improve the quality of electricity in the constituency and the entire Luapula Province. This is a more cost-effective option than the initial plan to construct a transmission line from Pensulo to Mansa.

Madam Speaker, I will give additional information just for clarity.

Madam Speaker, the Pensulo/Mansa Transmission Line which was initially proposed to improve power support to Chifunabuli and the entire Luapula Province involved the construction of a 330 kV transmission line over a 600 km distance. The Luano/Mansa Transmission Line will involve the construction of a 330 kV Transmission Line over a 200 km distance. This line will feed Samfya and Chifunabuli constituencies by extension through the existing infrastructure. Currently, feasibility studies for the Luano/Mansa Project which will determine the actual cost and duration of the implementation of the project are ongoing. Chifunabuli Constituency is currently supplied from Samfya.

Madam Speaker, the historical data to the Pensulo/Mansa Project is that ZESCO Limited had plans to extend a 330 kV power transmission network from Pensulo/Serenje to Mansa District to improve the power supply in Luapula Province. The project involved constructing a 330-kV transmission line from Serenje District to Mansa District, establishinga Greenfield 330/132-66kV Mansa Substation, constructing 132 kV transmission lines and associated substations in Samfya, Musonda Falls T-off and Mansa Town, and building other supporting infrastructure. The project was awarded to China Railway Group Company Limited on 4th January 2016, on an engineering procurement, construction and financing basis.

However, the major challenge that arose was securing financing for the constructor due to the country’s debt situation. Consequently, progress on the project stalled in 2019, with only preliminary designs and some geotechnical studies being completed. It is worth noting that ZESCO Limited contributed US$21 million towards the project financing, which was used towards preliminary project design and geotechnical survey studies. Upon further review, it was discovered that a more cost-effective option to improve power supply to the province was to construct a 330-kV transmission line from Luano to Mansa. This option covers almost half of the distance required by the Mansa/Pensulo Project. As a result, the Mansa/Pensulo Project was cancelled due to the challenges of securing financing and the overall cost of the project.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has alluded to the commitment that ZESCO Limited made to a tune over US$20 million. Does that imply that we have wasted money through ZESCO Limited since the project has been abandoned, and what happens to that money surely?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the information I have is that the money has since been repaid. What is happening now is that they are just looking at the final accounting so that they can close the project.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyemba: Madam Speaker, are the feasibility studies to connect Chifunabuli from Luano, which the hon. Minister talked about, going to continue or the project has been abandoned?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I said that the feasibility studies to connect Luano to Mansa are ongoing. Once these studies are completed and the project is costed, then the project will begin.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, as a lay man, I do not know much about power or electricity. In Luapula, there is the Musonda Falls Hydro Power Station, and it was commissioned. Can Chifunabuli be connected to that power station? I do not know if it is 3 kW; I do not want to go into details. I just want to find out whether it can be done in that manner.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the Musonda Falls Hydro Power Station is too small to supply power to Chifunabuli as well.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyemba: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that there are no power cuts in Chifunabuli. In Chifunabuli, we depend on the officers from ZESCO Limited in Samfya. However, sometimes, they are overwhelmed because they have to go to Milenge, Chilubi, Samfya and then, come to Chifunabuli. Is the hon. Minister aware that sometimes, it takes three or four days for ZESCO Limited to restore power in Chifunabuli because the officers in Samfya are overwhelmed?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I do not think power travels to Serenje or Milenge, and then comes back to Samfya.

Laughter

Mr Kapala: The fault that has been attributed to – I already indicated that in the recent past, three or four poles fell due to flooding, and it took three days for the officers to repair the damage.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, when responding to a question asked by the hon. Member for Chifunabuli, who wanted to know whether the hon. Minister is aware that the officers at ZESCO Limited in Samfya are apparently overwhelmed, and often times, they go to Chembe and elsewhere, the hon. Minister talked about poles. Is he in order to not answer the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chifunabuli?

I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister said that there is no load shedding, but that the power outage was due to the fault caused by the poles that fell. That is what the hon. Minister said. So, I do not know if that was misunderstood.

Mr B. Mpundu rose.

Madam Speaker: Maybe, you can state what you –

Mr B. Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chifunabuli asked the hon. Minister if he was aware that sometimes, it takes long for minor challenges of power in Chifunabuli to be sorted out on the basis that the officers are overwhelmed and busy, and at times, they take four days to run to Chifunabuli to address those minor problems. However, in his response, he did not refer to the overwhelmed officers, but he instead talked about poles.

Madam Speaker: I believe the hon. Minister had not finished, he was still answering the question.

May the hon. Minister address that issue.

Laughter

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I wish the hon. Member of Parliament for Nkana would understand his geography to see the distance between Samfya and Chifunabuli for him to support what has just been stated. ZESCO Limited has an office in Samfya. It takes a maximum of 20 to 30 minutes to get to Chifunabuli. So, I do not think that what the hon. Member is supporting actually happens.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: In other words, hon. Minister, are you saying that the members of staff for ZESCO Limited in Chifunabuli are not overwhelmed because they do not cover the other areas? Is that what you are saying?

Mr Kapala: Yes, Madam Speaker, that is what I am saying.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, we are enjoying the Chifunabuli ZESCO Limited issue. The hon. Minister has indicated that once the engineering, procurement, and all other works are done, then the people of Chifunabuli will have that reliable power supply which they are asking for. Is the hon. Minister likely to give them the timeline because everything has to be timed? Is it next year or 2026 when the people of Chifunabuli will be given that reliable power supply just like the people of Chama South who have been assured that power will be connected by the end of twenty-four months? What time line is attached to the good people of Chifunabuli?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, you should not put fuel on fire.

Laughter

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, we anticipate that feasibility studies will include geotechnics I hope the hon. Member of Parliament understands what geotechnics is as well as topographical surveys. Once these are done, and the project is costed, it should be within six months or so. Thereafter, we anticipate that this line could be built in one and a half years.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chibombwe (Bahati): Madam Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member for Chifunabuli that the area has rampant power outages and this is because of the conductor size from the Mansa sub-station to Samfya, which is actually small. I know the hon. Minister understands that it is about 25mm that is transmitting from the Mansa sub-station to Samfya. So, that is causing a lot of outages and faults because the conductor is overloaded. So, in the short term, does the hon. Minister have plans to up rate the conductor size from 25mm to 100mm from Mansa to Samfya? I think that will help the situation in Chifunabuli.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I need to verify what the hon. Member for Bahati has just claimed, then I can come back to the House to confirm whether what he is saying is feasible, engineering wise.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang'andu): Madam Speaker, we appreciate the responses from the hon. Minister. I am sure that when the hon. Minister visits Chifunabuli, he would want to find a consistent supply of power. The hon. Member of Parliament for Bahati is speaking from an institutional competence of ZESCO Limited and he is also a technical person. If, indeed, we established that what the hon. Member has stated is the actual position, how soon can the issue be addressed so that when the hon. Minister goes to Chifunabuli as well …

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: … he is able to find a reliable and consistent power supply?

Madam Speaker: I did not know that the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang'andu was also fetching firewood to put on the fire.

Laughter

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I am happy that at long last Hon. Kampyongo is encouraging me to ensure that power is adequately supplied to Chifunabuli. We will look into this matter. If what Hon. Chibombwe has said is true, and we will act on it, since I came from there, I have interests as well

Thank you, Madam Speaker

Laughter

Madam Speaker: I think the cat is slowly getting out of the bag.

Laughter

Mr Kandafula (Serenje): Madam Speaker, thank you for according the people of Serenje a chance to add a voice to debate on this interesting topic. The hon. Minister has talked about the line coming from Luano into Mansa. In the initial design, we saw that the Pensulo into Mansa line was more viable to connect other areas of Zambia through Samfya upto Mansa. This is just a distance of 329 km, which is not the 600 km he talked about. The 600km is the one that comes from Pensulo through Kasama into Mansa, where the Pensulo/Kasama line has already been upgraded to 330kV from 66kV because we had low voltage in Mansa. If we were to tap power from Luano into Mansa, would we not be disadvantaging our people from Serenje through Milenje up to Mansa and Samfya?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the United Party for National Development (UPND) is an efficient Government. I have given the reasons we have decided to go through Luano into Mansa, and that is because it is a short distance, it is only 200km. This will be the first phase so that we can connect all other towns in Luapula Province. Then we will move on because everybody understands that there is an inadequate power supply in Luapula. Manganese which is being mined in Luapula is being transported to the district where the hon. Member comes from. Soon, we will be able to look into that so that people in Luapula can also have value addition to their manganese, which they are producing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyemba indicated to speak.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chifunabuli, you have already exhausted your two questions.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: Hon Member, maybe, you can continue the discussion outside. Let us make progress.

CATEGORIES OF SCHOOLS IN KALABO DISTRICT

160 Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Education:

(a)     how many, of the following categories of schools, there were in Kalabo District, as of February, 2022:

(i)      community schools; and

(ii)     primary schools; and

(b)     when the community schools will be upgraded to Government schools.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, I would suggest that we withdraw this question because it was asked in another version last week. So, I forgive the hon. Minister on that one. He may proceed with other issues.

Madam Speaker: Leave is granted, and the question is withdrawn.

 

NUMBER OF CHILDREN LIVING ON THE STREETS COUNTRYWIDE

161. Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

  1. what the estimated number of children living on the streets, countrywide, was, in the following years:
  1. 2000;
  2. 2005;
  3. 2010;
  4. 2015; and
  5. 2020;
  1. what the cause of the problem of children living in the streets is; and
  2. what practical measures the Government is taking to address the problem.

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Ms D. Mwamba): Madam Speaker, the estimated number of children on the streets for the years highlighted are not available as there has been no national or international survey undertaken to ascertain the numbers since 2006. According to the 2006 Survey and Analysis of the situation of street children in Zambia, there were 13,500 living on the streets in the country. These children spent most of their time in the streets and other public places. Out of these, 15 per cent, which translates into 2,026, were girls and 85 per cent, translating into 11,475 were boys.

Madam Speaker, the underlining factor of the high proportion of children living on the streets is mainly due to the following factors:

  1. high poverty levels of the total population of Zambia, which is impacting negatively on children, families and households. This has resulted into children going into the streets as a means of survival;
  2. abuse in families and homes is another contributing factor to children living on the streets. Abused children take to the streets to run away from abusive guardians and other care givers, especially after the loss of one or both parents;
  3. truancy- Increased moral decay in our society has resulted in truancy. Children who are not able to follow basic rules on discipline which are conducted in a normal family setting also end up on the streets;
  4. unemployment on the part of parents and guardians has also been cited as a contributing factor to children running away and living on the streets;
  5. lack of recreational facilities in communities is another reason why children go on to the streets,
  6. high divorce rates among parents in Zambia. In the recent past Zambia has recorded a high number of divorce cases, which has resulted in the breakdown of family units and family values. This has also contributed to the increase in numbers of children opting to live on the streets;
  7. negative impact of Coronavirus Diseas-2019 (COVID-19) on the social and economic well-being of families, particularly the poor and vulnerable groupings like children, women, youth and persons with disabilities and the those in the informal sectors, has also worsened the issue of children living on the streets;
  8. streets are beginning to be attractive for children living on the streets because the streets continue to be an easy source of money through alms giving, sexual activities, child labour and drugs;

Madam Speaker, in order to address the issues of our children living on the streets, the Government has put in place the following measures:

  1. The National Alternative Care and Integration Guidelines

The Government developed the National Alternative Care and Integration Guidelines. These are guidelines that have been developed to assist the Government and other stakeholders to improve the protection and alternative care for children; re-integration of children with their families, where appropriate; creation of a pool of foster homes and parents and provision of adoption services were a child needs a new permanent home or family.

Madam Speaker, these guidelines provide direction on how to make a decision in the best interests of the child and are based on the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, (UNCRC), and the International Guidelines for the Alternative Care of Children (UN 2009) as a guiding framework.

The guidelines also set out key steps of appropriately and safely placing home children in need of such care as children living on the streets in a family based alternative care arrangement while tracing and re-integrating them with family is being done;

  1. Street Children Rehabilitation Centres

The Government has put in place rehabilitation centres in an effort to facilitate the removal of street children from the streets; rehabilitation and re-integration into their families. There is, currently, one centre being run by the Government. It is in Chikumbi in Chibombo District. The Government, in partnership with the Zambia National Service (ZNS), is providing camps for skills training for adolescents removed from the streets.

Madam Speaker, there is currently, one centre which is being run by the Government in Chikumbi in Chibombo District. The Government, in partnership with the Zambia National Service (ZNS) is providing camps for skills training for adolescents who are removed from the streets. The programme is aimed at empowering former street and vulnerable youths, through character transformation and skills training. The training received includes carpentry, general agriculture, metal fabrication, bricklaying, tailoring and designing. The programme has an exit plan for the children once they are empowered with skills and these included, awarding them with certificates, providing them with start-up tools, and materials needed for them excel in business.

Madam Speaker, under the ZNS, we have the Kitwe Trades Training Centre for girls, Chiwoko Trades Training Centre in Katete, and Chishimba Trades Training Centre in Kasama, for boys.  

Madam Speaker, a total of 2,464 children living on the streets were trained in these centres between 2019 and 2021. The Government also uses childcare facilities to provide interim care for street children as part of the response to enhance their recovery and rehabilitation. Childcare facilities ensure stability and continuity. It also provides children with a sense of belonging to a family on a temporary basis.

Case Management

Madam Speaker, standard case management tools have been developed and are being promoted for use by the Government, non-governmental organisations (NGOs), faith and church-based groups working with street children.

Madam Speaker, during the case management, children are profiled to ensure identification of the root cause of being on the streets, identification of needs and referrals to appropriate services as well as, and monitoring of children and families. Case management tools have been developed specifically to support the provision of services to children in need of care such as those living on the streets.

Legal Framework

Madam Speaker, the Government enacted the Children’s Code Act and the Social Workers Association Act in 2022, to strengthen the provisions of the welfare of children living on the streets as well as, serve as a deterrent to parents and guardians who are allowing children to go on the streets. Further, the objective of the Children’s Code Act is to protect children by reducing the exposure to abuse and neglect.

Increased Budgetary Allocation

Madam Speaker, the Government has significantly increased the budgetary allocation towards programmes around street children. The budget has increased from K14 million in 2022, to K24 million in 2023. This will significantly contribute to the removal, rehabilitation, and re-integration of children living on the streets.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: With that comprehensive answer, do we still need to ask questions?

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga (Kalulushi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for giving a very lengthy comprehensive statement.

Madam Speaker, I am one of the hon. Members who came to support the Children’s Code Bill which is now an Act in this House. All these things we are talking about are centred on the Children’s Code Act, and they are methodical and not practical. So, they cannot work.

Madam Speaker, what I am trying to tell the hon. Minister is that – I am very sad that the number of children who have been on the streets from the various years have not been stated by the hon. Minister.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, it is something that is in public domain. The number of children who are currently on the street is actually threatening.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: Go to the Kafue Roundabout.

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: Give me an opportunity to ask a question.  Go to Kafue roundabout.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Ask your question.

Ms Mulenga: I am going to ask my question. So, give me time.

If you go to the Kafue roundabout, you will find children swimming in pools of water. The problem is that –

Interruptions

Ms Mulenga: Let me help the hon. Minister. That is why I am here as an hon. Member of Parliament. I have street children there.

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I am asking for your protection.

Madam Speaker: That is why I am saying, “order.”

Hon. Member, can you ask your question. Do not debate.

You can open your question with a preamble but to not prolong it.

Ask your question.

Ms Mulenga: Madam Speaker, we enacted a Bill in this House, which is very important. The children who are on the street are anchored on the Bill. What is the hon. Minister and this Government doing about it? From her response, I have not heard anything to do with the Children’s Code Act. What is being done? Everything to do with street children is anchored on this Act. Most of the children we see on the street are paid. We enacted that Bill and it is now a law. Has the hon. Minister, in the last nine months prosecuted any of the mothers and fathers whose children are on the streets?

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Kalulushi for the question. I will start by talking about a law which she has referred to. She has correctly asked if we have prosecuted any guardian or parent due to child negligence.

Madam Speaker, I want to announce here that in 2021, we opened a Juvenile’s Court matching towards the enactment of the Children’s Code Act. We wanted to make sure that courts are available to deal with children’s issues.

Madam Speaker, before we enacted the Children’s Code Act, it was here where I presented the Social Workers Association Act. Hon. Colleagues, this Social Workers Association Act gives us room to improve on the inspectorate to make sure that Social Welfare Assistants dealing with children are well-equipped. So, on that aspect, we are indeed equipped.

Madam Speaker, this year, I was invited by the High Court of Zambia to be guest of honour, and to officially open the criminal session, which is the legal year for 2023. If we all remember, the Act was enacted late last year. Indeed, we now have teeth to bite, and we will take on parents who neglect their children. I thank my sister for giving me this opportunity to warn mostly Zambian men, who are in a habit of producing children and neglecting them, that the law is there to protect children and promote their rights. I am capable of enforcing this law, which I struggled to bring to this House.

Madam Speaker, as regards integration, I will come back to Parliament with details of how many children in Lusaka, we have integrated back in their families. You agree with me that there are now a few street children at Levy Junction Shopping Mall, but where did they rest go? The ministry managed to trace their biological parents and guardians, and we took them quietly back to their homes. Mostly, those children come from vulnerable and poor households. We have managed to place their families on social protection programmes, such as the Social Cash Transfer Scheme, livelihood schemes, and women empowerment programmes. This will enable the parents take care of their children.

Madam Speaker, we also identified a number of street children whom we are about to take to Katete. The girls who were in Katete and Kitwe graduated two weeks ago. We identified over 800 children whom we picked up in the streets of Lusaka, and we are about to take them to the three centres in Kitwe, Katete and Kasama Chishimba.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: It looks like some hon. Members already have suspects lined up for the court.

Laughter

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the elaborate answer. My concern is that the hon. Minister mentioned that they took some children to Katete, Kitwe and other facilities in 2021, but I do not know how long it takes to do the exercise.I feel this is an urgent matter that the ministry needs to address. The ministry can involve the Zambia National Service (ZNS) or the Zambia Army to help it. If you go round Lusaka, there are children everywhere, and it is the ministry’s responsibility to take care of them. When will we see the streets empty or without children? For me, this is an emergency issue that we need to find a solution for. That issue is the hon. Minister’s baby and her ministry needs to ensure that the street kids are taken to proper facilities where they can be taken care of.

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mkaika.

Madam Speaker, I asked my mother when the issue of street children began in Zambia. When I relate this issue to my language which is Bemba, no street produces children. How did this culture come about?

Madam Speaker, I learnt that when people were dying in numbers due to Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS), most guardians could not look after the orphans, and those orphans begun looking after themselves on the streets. That is how we started having street children and it is now a culture. However, the exercise of removing them from the streets is ongoing. It will take time, but we will get there. However, the number of street children has reduced. In December, we rounded up over 700 street children across the country and they are under our care. We are still identifying children whom we need to reintegrate in society, and place in a safe place, and the young ones will be placed in foster care homes. So, the exercise of removing the street children from the streets is ongoing. Now that we have established the law, we have legs to stand on. Some parents have the habit of sending their children to the streets, but we hope the number of street children will drastically reduce.

Madam Speaker, I want to say that last year, 311 boys graduated from Katete, and 218 girls graduated from Kitwe. We engage with the street children at my ministry, and we have developed relationships with them. We know where they come from and we know the parents of most of them. As I speak, most parents are undergoing counselling.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as you ask questions, be precise orto the point.The answers should also be precise or to the point so that we can accommodate as many hon. Members as possible. There are many hon. Members who have indicated.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for her eloquence, passion and the stern warning to my fellow men.

Interruptiona

Mr Mutinta: Including myself, yes.

Madam Speaker, in this country, about 2 million Zambians live with disabilities. Of the 13,000 children, how many are living with disabilities? Further, in the hon. Minister’s plans to manage this crisis, are there any special programmes that speak to children with disabilities?

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, very few children with disabilities find themselves on the streets. I think that guardians and parents sympathise with the status of such children. Therefore, we have very few children with disabilities on the streets.

However, in relation to that question, we are warning parents living with disabilities to desist from using their children as they go on the streets to beg.

Madam Speaker, we have carried out sensitisation and we have counselled them, mostly the blind. Very soon, we will start arresting them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, the issue of street kids is a potential time bomb. It is a national disaster. The hon. Minister has mentioned that the street has become a lucrative business. What measures is the Government taking to ensure that those making being on the street a lucrative business are dealt with? We give money to these people. That is why they have continued to be on the streets. What action is the hon. Minister taking to deal with people flashing money to the people on the streets?

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, we are working on the right message to give to the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) to warn motorists and urge them to desist from giving money to children who are finding themselves on the streets. After we have published adverts and messages,  and that still continues, we will have no choice but to have such motorists arrested and prosecuted.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Thank you. A number of warnings there.

Laughter

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, firstly, I want to thank the hon. Minister and her ministry for doing a commendable job in Chienge of bringing to book those who have been stealing from the disadvantaged. I hope they will soon pay back the K100,000s that they have been stealing from the poor people. The hon. Minister has done a good job and she deserves applauses. I wish I could clap for her.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulenga: Ema Minister!

Rev Katuta: Madam Speaker, when we talk about street children, we always confine that to Lusaka. I heard the hon. Minister say that the problem of street kids cuts across the country. Is there a way of reopening the place which Hon. Professor Nkandu Luo used to run; the Tansita Centre so that we can also use it to develop and give them skills?

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chienge for that suggestion.

Madam Speaker, I always say to my colleagues and hon. Members of Parliament that this ministry is a poor people’s ministry. It is an emotional ministry and a ministry for those in desperate need. Therefore, politics do not come at play in this ministry. So, whether that centre was used by Hon. Prof Nkandu Luo, if it is available and it can be used for the best interest of our children, we shall look into it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, the issue of street kids in Kitwe is very sad. Something needs to be done as soon as yesterday. Dealing with street kids is a challenge because all the interventions that the hon. Minister has espoused have been tried before. Wehave taken children to the Zambian National Service (ZNS) camps and for reintegration. All these efforts have been taken. So, it is about time we stopped acting like angels towards the issue of street kids. I can guarantee you, if tomorrow, a combined team of police officers, council officers and officers from the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare moved onto the streets, we could be dealing with a very small problem. The number of children who are supposed to be on the streets is very small. My experience in Kitwe is very clear.

Madam, we have homes in Luanshya for the blind. We took them there, but they are back in Kitwe. We took them into integration or childcare homes in Kitwe, but they are back on the street. Ninety per cent or 70 per cent of the children on the street in Kitwe are coming from functional homes. So, is the hon. Minister prepared to perhaps, use orthodox methods as opposed to what we have tried before? We have tried these methods over and over. Insanity is to do the same things that you have done expecting different results. Is the hon. Minister prepared to use the fist? If she wants to go the angelic route, I can guarantee her she will fail. She should, please, use the fist.

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, the difference between the hon. Member for Nkana and I is that I am a mother. I give birth.

Mr B. Mpundu: And I am your son!

Mr D. Mwamba: I understand what it means for a child to run away from home and decide to start living on the streets. So, under my leaderships in that ministry, we shall not use force. We shall use the law.  Previously there was no law to protect and promote the right of the children. The difference is that we have the law. So, we will used the law to control these children. So, far we are managing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Tayengwa (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask a question.

Madam Speaker, the issue of street kids is very serious. The question that has been posed by the hon. Member for Mkaika is very important. The statistics are actually worrying and if we let this situation continue, we will breed a generation of gangsters, and we may fail to control them.

Madam Speaker, there are only three centres that have been mentioned. I would like to find out whether the ministry has plans of opening up other centres manned by the Zambia National Service (ZNS) in other provinces such as the Southern and North-Western provinces?

Ms D. Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I stated some of the reasons that contribute or cause children to start living on the streets. The negative impact of the COVID-19 disease is one of the reasons we should not underestimate. Companies closed and people lost businesses and employment due to this pandemic. Now, we are dealing with the shock of the aftermath. So, indeed, there has been a rise in children living on the streets.

Madam Speaker, one of the remedies that the ministry is using is to re-integrate the children back into their families. However, even when we say re-integration, it does really mean that. These children, in the night, go back to their homes and sleep there. Over fifty per cent of the children who are seen on the streets do not sleep there; they go back to their homes. We have traced and followed their parents and guardians to understand what the issues are in those homes. Unemployment is one of them. That is why we are placing them on social protection programmes so that they can look after their children.

Madam Speaker, we also carry out case management by studying individual cases. Where we see that a child is coming from an abusive home, we place him/her in a foster care home with foster parents. This is in extreme cases where officers establish that children are coming from very toxic homes. We retrieve these children from these homes and place them in homes of safety to protect their rights.

I submit, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, looking at the time, I think we have sufficiently dealt with that question. Hon. Members who still have ideas or suggestions on how best we can tackle this issue can still have a discussion with the hon. Minister.

NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS CONNECTED TO PIPED WATER IN KALABO

162. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Water Development and

Sanitation:

  1. how many households were connected to piped water in Kalabo District as of February, 2022;
  2. whether the Government has any plans to increase the number of households connected to piped water in the district; and
  3. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, 1,077 households were connected to piped water in Kalabo District as of February, 2022.

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to increase the number of households connected to piped water in Kalabo District.

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented within 2023 under Phase I of a project called Water Supply and Sanitation Improvement. The project targets to connect 1,000 additional households to piped water. It will involve the construction of a new water intake, new treatment plant and storage facilities.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, does the ministry collaborate with other government departments such as the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, where departments of water and sanitation exist?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, the ministry collaborates with many other ministries because the Government is one entity. So, for example, currently, we are collaborating with the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development to ensure that hon. Members work with the two ministries in prioritising issues of water supply and sanitation under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, with regard to the over 1,000 connections which have been done in households in Kalabo, in relation to the actual supply of water, what is the hon. Minister’s comment on its sufficiency? Do the people have access to water supply twenty-four hours, seven days a week?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, that feedback is actually supposed to come from hon. Members because they are the ones who are on the ground in the constituencies. I think it would be very helpful for them to give the ministry the feedback on whether there are challenges of people having access to water supply twenty-four hours a day.

Madam Speaker, as much as our target is to ensure that people who are connected to our water supply network receive water throughout the day, it is a challenge to guarantee that supply. It is one thing to set a target, but another to guarantee the possibility of uninterrupted water supply throughout the day as it might be a challenge. The hon. Member of Parliament may wish to note that for us to supply this water, we also depend on the availability of electricity. So, on a given day, when there is no supply of power, we face challenges in supplying water. Nevertheless, we endeavour to ensure that our utility companies try to supply water for as many hours as possible in a day.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: I will allow just two more questions. We have to manage our time. Therefore, the next hon. Member, the Member for Chinsali, should be precise to the point.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I would like to seek a clarification from the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation. When did he say the project to connect the additional 1,000 people is exactly going to commence?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I want to thank my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chinsali, for that question. I did say that this project will be done within 2023.

I thank you very much, Madam Speaker,

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, greetings from the island here. I have been shunted to Limulunga. I think it is flooding is Lealui, just when we are expecting the President’s Address. However, that as it may be, I want to comment on the problem of water in Kalabo based on my experience. I just came back from Mitete and Lukulu. In the Western Province, the Zambezi River is full of water. Old trees have been submerged, but the people of Kalabo are still complaining about water.

Madam Speaker, there is an abundance of water in the Western Province because of the mighty Zambezi River. Therefore, what plans does the ministry have for the people of Mitete, Lukulu and elsewhere, so that the problem of water in the Western Province is no more, given that God gave it to them?

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Patriotic Front (PF) presidential candidate, and hon. Member of Parliament for Matero, for that question.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mposha: I also thank him for taking advantage of his campaign tours to also check on the water challenges. I think this is good. We need that kind of feedback.

Madam Speaker, like I said, we have a project which will be done within 2023 to ensure that we add more than 1,000 people to the network in Kalabo. Talking Western Province in general, there are many projects that had stalled and we have reactivated most of them. Therefore, I want to assure the hon. Member of Parliament that within 2023, I have actually given instructions to all the contractors and we have also agreed on the timeline for completion of the projects which we have reactivated. So within 2023, the presidential candidate for PF will see that most of the...

Mr Amutike: The frontrunner.

Mr Mposha: ... projects, for example, in Kaoma, Sesheke and various points –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the rules of this House are very clear. When hon. Ministers are responding to questions, they must speak to what the Standing Orders provide for. Is the hon. Minister responsible for water, who is supposed to give comfort to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo, who is supported by the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero, in order to start politicking?

Madam Speaker, here we have got only hon. Members, but in his own way, he is trying to start campaigning. On a serious note, is he in order to start using titles that are not permissible in this august House?

Interruptions

Madam Speaker: Order!

We started with a fire that was in front of me. People were putting fuel and firewood on the fire, and little did I know that there was also fire on my left. On a lighter note, I think the hon. Minister was playing chimbuya with the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero.

Laughter

Madam Speaker: I think it was on a lighter note.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I was saying that we have reactivated a number of projects that had stalled in the Western Province. I want to comfort the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero and the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central that for most of these projects, we have already agreed on the timelines with the contractors. In the course of this year, we will commission these projects. Consequently, the people of the Western Province will derive many benefits from them once they are commissioned.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

UPGRADE OF RURAL HEALTH CENTRES IN CHIFUNABULI DISTRICT

163. Ms Nyemba asked the Minister of Health:

  1. whether the Government has any plans to upgrade the following rural health centres to mini-hospitals in Chifunabuli District:
  1. Chibuye;
  2. Kasuba;
  3. Chishi;
  4. Miponda;
  5. Nshungu;
  6. Mwewa;
  7. Mwansakombe; and
  8. Kandolo; and
  1. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade the above-mentioned rural health centres. The priority of the Government currently, is to complete the ongoing construction works that include health posts, health centres and district hospitals.

Madam Speaker, as stated earlier, the Government has no immediate plans to upgrade the above-mentioned rural health centres and, therefore, question (b) falls off.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyemba: Madam Speaker, in Chifunabuli, there is Lubwe Mission Hospital and Kasaba Mission Hospital, and we thank the Catholic Church for providing services to our people for a long time. Is the Government not disadvantaging the people of Chifunabuli who cannot access family planning because by faith, the Catholic Church does not offer such services?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I hear the hon. Member, but I am sure she agrees with me that we must first finish what is half down before we start new things, especially that we are talking about upgrading. Except that when it comes to maternal issues in view of the supplementary question the hon. Member asked, you will agree that we already made a policy statement to the effect that all rural health centres and urban centres in the country, which do not have a maternity annex, will be given a maternity annex. That instruction has also been supported by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development, which has agreed that we prioritise the extension of maternity annexes. I think the hon. Member knows about that issue. I thought that by now, as Member of Parliament, she is already prioritising the annex maternity wings that are supposed to be added to all the health centres. I also want to state that the Government is also carrying out rehabilitation works, looking at what is in the budget, and that is something that we can be talking about. However, we will not carry out general upgrading in the near future.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Nyemba: Madam Speaker, I have come back again.

Laughter

Ms Nyemba: Madam Speaker, according to the architectural drawings for clinics in rural areas, most maternity annexes are very close to the examination rooms. So, women of Chifunabuli have been complaining, especially when they go to deliver because they are so close to the examination room. You know that as human being, we react differently. Others feel their privacy is being compromised. I know the hon. Minister has already said that the ministry is not ready to upgrade the clinics, but is the Government going to look at this issue to ensure that in future, the maternity annexes are constructed at the far end of the clinic, including in Chifunabuli?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I may not really fully appreciate the point that the hon. Member has brought to the fore, except to say that some of these local issues will have to be dealt with by the local authorities. As you may be aware, one of our key policies, which we are beginning to implement this year, is to give some of the functions of the Ministry of Health, such as the provision of primary healthcare, to the local authorities. We want the local councils, hon. Members of Parliament, the community leadership and the local people to make their own decisions.

For example, if they feel that they want an annex to be stand-alone and away from the clinic because culturally, there may be issues which people in Lusaka may not appreciate, it will be up to the local council to make that decision. This is why as Government, we have already done the physical decentralisation. The resources are with them. So, for some of these small issues, it will just help that the local authorities make those decisions. However, I have already indicated that it has already been agreed that every health facility that does not have a maternity annex must put up one. So, again, it is up to the district health department to see how best that can be done.

Madam Speaker, we do not have a fixed way indicating where a clinic should be or whether it should face east or west, no! These are issues that really can be dealt with at the district level. I also want to state that there are two hospitals in that district. Yes, one is a mission hospital and I hear the hon. Member when she says she wants to thank the Catholics and do this or that. Yes, we thank the Catholic Church and other churches that help the Government and, indeed, the private sector, non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and the civil society. There are quite a number of players, not only in the education sector, but also in the health sector, who are really helping us and making things possible for us.

Madam Speaker, when we talk about mission hospitals, we must also take note that the Government does support and spend resources on them. It budgets for them like they are its Government Hospitals. The heath staff that work in mission hospitals are paid by the Government. So, their salaries are paid by the Government. The drugs they use are also supplied by the Government and, in most cases now, even the grants that it gives to Government facilities are also given to mission hospitals.

Madam Speaker, the Global Fund that this country receives, for example, the Catholic Hospitals also do. So, at the end of the day, I can safely say we are working together. When hon. Members commend mission hospitals, they should not do so as though the Government does nothing about them because it supports them. When you have a mission hospital, take note that there is mutual co-operation, financial and technical support. It is important that hon. Members of Parliament, who are leaders, understand that.

Madam Speaker, let me say that Chifunabuli District has, in fact, two First Level Mission Hospitals; Lombwe Mission Hospital and Kasaba, which sometimes is referred to as St. Margaret's Mission Hospital.

Madam Speaker, the construction of health posts, in some of those places where they are being built, will be completed by the end of 2023 and, therefore, consideration will be given for the construction of district hospitals in districts that do not have first level hospitals.

Madam Speaker, if a district has a mission hospital, we may not make that a priority district for the construction of a hospital because there is a district hospital that we are financing and supporting, even though it is a mission hospital. We have districts that do have mission hospitals or Government hospitals. Those will be the first ones we will consider and then move on to the others.

Madam Speaker, I thought that, maybe, with that little information, hon. Members of Parliament and the public could be assisted to understand and appreciate. Most importantly, people must take note that development will be equitable in all districts and provinces. It is important that all Zambians get a share of the support of their Government because it is their money.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, yours was a late indication. We have only about two minutes remaining. Can the question be asked and answered within that remaining time.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I will be very brief, but let me just say that I think the spirit in which the hon. Member for Chifunabuli was acknowledging the work of mission hospitals was not to say that the Government is not doing anything because we know the role it has played in the health sector.

Madam Speaker, I would like to have the hon. Minister’s clarification. What we do, normally, if we are doing anything in her sector, we work with district health directorates on designs of clinics or maternity annexes as they understand the dynamics of our rural set-ups and what parameters can be put in place for maternity annexes.

Madam Speaker, I just want to be clear; the hon. Minister stated that councils should decide on what needs to be done. That can create a challenge for us as we know that in the health sector, the ministry has presence in districts, and councils can only implement recommendations or designs given by the office in the district. We just need clarity on that.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member has ably articulated his question and is right. When I talk of local authorities, I talk in the spirit of decentralisation. We will get to what I am saying, but we are not yet there.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

Government Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1915 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 23rd February, 2023.

__________