Wednesday, 16^th March, 2022

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

 

MR J. BANDA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PETAUKE, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON THE HUNGER SITUATION IN PETAUKE

 

Mr J. Banda (Petauke Central): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

 

Mr J. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke this chance. Before I go on, may I first pass my condolences to the people of Katete and the Eastern Province at large for losing the District Commissioner (DC), Mr Richard Mutalimanja, of Katete District.

 

Madam Speaker, 90 per cent of the good people of Petauke Central Constituency are farmers. They depend on farming for their staple food, which is nshima. However, now is when they are getting top dressing fertiliser, which is urea. Every year, the small scale farmers keep maize for food, which is mealie-meal, up to February and the first week of March. Now, we are past the first week of March and the people do not have food. Due to climate change, the rains started very late. Therefore, the good people of Petauke are asking the working New Dawn Government to provide relief food to them to cushion the hunger situation.

 

MR MUNG’ANDU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FORCHAMA SOUTH, ON THE VICE-PRESIDENT, ON THE SHORTAGE OF DRUGS IN HOSPITALS

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, health is said to be the basic or most important part of human life. A population that is not healthy tends to be unproductive. It is clear that in the past six months that the New Dawn Government has been in office, it has failed to procure drugs in our hospitals. When you go to most of our clinics in rural areas, including urban areas, you find that our citizens are issued with prescriptions to go and buy drugs from private pharmacies. If you go to Kalingalinga, you will learn that a number of citizens are struggling economically. They have no money to buy these drugs because prices of goods and services are going up.

 

Madam Speaker, clearly, the New Dawn hon. Ministers are in the habit of referring to the Patriotic Front (PF) Government as an excuse.

 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

 

Mr Mung’andu: I want to mention that the PF is no longer in Government. The reason the people of Zambia voted for the New Dawn Government is so that our hon. Colleagues on your right provide solutions to the problems that the people are facing. If the Government does not provide essential drugs to our people, the lives of our people are at risk. This matter of urgent public importance is directed at Her Honour the Vice-President. When is the Government going to provide essential drugs in our hospitals? You can imagine that there are no malaria drugs in our hospitals, putting the lives of our people at risk.

 

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Here is my ruling on the two matters. I will start with the first one by the hon. Member for Petauke. For that issue, I am going to ask Her Honour the Vice-President to come with a ministerial statement in the course of next week on the status of relief food to some areas that are affected by hunger.

 

On the second issue, hon. Member for Chama South, you said this problem has been in existence for the past six months and according to the requirement for an urgent matter, it should be of recent occurrence. So, I advise you to come up with a question that can be answered under Standing Order 74 or you can use the provision for asking an urgent question to cover that issue.

 

I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Mubika.

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, good afternoon. Sorry, I was trying to cancel my indication, but I could not. So, maybe, the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) officers can remove me from the list.

 

_______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

STALLED CONSTRUCTION OF A DISTRICT HOSPITAL IN PEMBA

 

286. Mr Hamwaata (Pemba) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether there are any plans to construct a district hospital in Pemba;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government through the Ministry of Health has plans to construct a district hospital in every new district that has no first level hospital, including Pemba District.

 

Madam, the plans will be implemented in the 2024 Budget. As stated earlier, the Government has plans to construct a first level hospital in Pemba District and, therefore, part (c) of the question falls off.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Katakwe: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according the people of Solwezi East an opportunity to raise a point of order. This is in accordance with our Standing Orders on privileges, conduct of hon. Members and parliamentary etiquette. I need your indulgence on the behaviour of hon. Members of Parliament, in particular, the Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members, on whose ruling you actually articulated quite well to the nation. They went out there and appeared on public media; Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), and lied to the nation that they were actually chased from the House because we do not want them to debate on the President’s Address and also that they were defending the Constitution of Zambia.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, there are Standing Orders on the behaviour of hon. Members of Parliament. I would not want to go into the details of citing the Standing Orders, but the provision I am referring to is on page 98, which is on the privileges, conduct of hon. Members and parliamentary etiquette. I seek your indulgence, Madam Speaker, if they were in order to go on public media and lie to the nation.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, do you have proof of that?

 

Mr Katakwe: Yes, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Okay, I will reserve my ruling to enable me to study the matter.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! One year!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You can lay the proof on the Table.

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, it needs to be printed because it was on ZNBC. It is in soft copy. We need to print it and bring it to the House.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the responses. Usually, what we have been experiencing these days due to lack of land is that when you want to put up a structure such as a hospital, there are always challenges whereby people in the area start contesting the location of the proposed hospital. Now, my question is: Has the ministry identified the piece of land where this hospital is going to be built on?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, this is why we have pushed that to 2024 in order to work with the local authority to identify the piece of land where this will be. My hope was that the hon. Member of Parliament had already done that.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Hamwaata: Madam Speaker, it is the wish of the people of Pemba Constituency that in the first term of the New Dawn Government, we are going to have a district hospital built. The people of Pemba Constituency have been on the waiting list for eight years. That is from the time the town was declared a district. We are anxiously waiting to see the district hospital built and it is our belief that the New Dawn Government will do likewise.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I take that as a comment.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, our people in Pemba, whom I must mention that us seated here, we love so much –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mung’andu: It is a fact. As we wait for that hospital to be constructed, what measures has the hon. Minister put in place to ensure that people do not cover long distances by going to Choma or Kalomo, especially expectant mothers?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for that very important

question. It is true that the Southern Province was one of the provinces that were really disadvantaged when it came to infrastructure development.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, you may wish to note that out of the 115 health posts that the administration decided to construct, the Southern Province was only allocated one. By the way, these were not free, but debts that accrued to this country.

 

There were complaints that came from the Southern Province, whereby the hon. Members of Parliament from there cried foul that how can they be allocated one health post out of 115, when there was one district with say, twenty-seven. So, as the New Dawn Government, we resolved, and that was a promise we made, that ours will be to give equitable infrastructure or health programmes to all the ten provinces and 116 districts, so that we do not seem to be dividing our nation.

 

Madam Speaker, one of the things we did immediately I got into that ministry was to look at our policy. I think I did mention on the Floor of this House that we will relook at the allocation. Where we felt that the implementation was not done, we redesigned the contract by allocation. So, what we have done as a ministry is that we have tried to give a minimum to every province. You will find that at the end of the construction of these health posts, at least the other provinces will have a minimum of eight, even as others have much more, like eighteen or twenty-seven. So, that is what we have done and I hope that you will continue to support us in ensuring that health service provision in this country is equitably distributed.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, may I know the total budget of the would-be Pemba District Hospital.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I am sorry, I would not exactly know.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

STALLED CONSTRUCTION OF MAPULA MINI HOSPITAL

 

287. Mr Chonde (Milenge) asked the Minister of Infrastructure Housing and Urban Development:

 

1. why the construction of Mapula Mini Hospital has stalled:
2. when the project will resume;
3. what the cost of the project; and
4. what the time frame for the completion is.

 

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the construction of Mapula Mission in Milenge stalled due to changes that were made during the revision of the distribution list by the ministry affecting all sites that had not commenced work at that time of the revision, and Mapula was among the affected sites.

 

Madam Speaker, the project will not resume as it was not on the distribution list.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, it is clear that some provinces like Luapula were being told that the construction of this mini hospital has stalled because the ministry is redistributing these mini hospitals. We are aware that the 650 health posts were first constructed and commissioned in the Southern Province. These are facts. You can check those facts. The North-Western Province – the hon. Minister was here giving this information. It is there in the Hansard. The Western Province, Luapula Province and Muchinga Province were all affected because the Government cancelled the contract for Jaguar Overseas Ltd.

 

Madam Speaker, now that the ministry is redistributing these mini hospitals, I must mention that I am among those who really fought hard for Chama to be allocated a mini hospital. I hope it did because we were not given one.

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to come and share with us Members of Parliament his ministry’s redistribution list so that we are sure some areas are not disadvantaged?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member accuses the New Dawn Administration of carrying out this redistribution thereby disadvantaging Luapula. Let me make it very clear that there was no such thing. This particular question was raised by the hon. Member in October. This redistribution was in the previous administration. It was not in this new administration.

 

Madam Speaker, secondly, out of the 108 mini hospitals, in Lot 1, Luapula, as province was allocated ten out of the 108. Out of the same 108 in Lot 2, again, Luapula was allocated another ten making it twenty. So, when the previous administration took this particular one out, for whatever reason, it did not mean that Luapula was disadvantaged. Compared to the others who received nothing, Luapula received twenty. Unfortunately, this one which was probably the 21^st was taken out by the Patriotic Front (PF) Administration for whatever reason. Our role is to report facts as they are and we shall continue to take development across the country regardless of which province those projects are in.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, I always refer to the election that we came through. Now, the coming of the New Dawn Government gave renewed hope to the people of Milenge, I will always repeat this. Whether this project was cancelled by the previous Government or not, where I come from, we say, uwaupa noko e wiso, meaning the one who marries your mother becomes your father. We are looking to you for hope. In Milenge, we can only cry to the New Dawn Government. This is an area which has a catchment of about 40,000 people and it is only serviced by the zone center. The referral hospital is about 70km away. Last month, when I was spoke to the hon. Minister, he promised to go there and see what was on the ground. We are still waiting for him to undertake that visit so that he appreciates the infrastructure in the province.

 

Madam Speaker: Order hon. Member!

 

Are you debating now?

 

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, these are rare opportunities –

 

Madam Speaker: Please, go straight to your question. There are two points of order pending. Have you finished asking your question?

 

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, I have not finished my question.

 

Madam Speaker: Can you please go straight to the question.

 

Mr Chonde: Madam Speaker, what message does the Government have for the people on the western side of Milenge in terms of providing social services such as hospitals? I was almost losing track.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I refer you to Standing Order 236, which indicates as follows:

 

“A female member or visitor may be allowed to carry an ordinary sized handbag into the Chamber.”

 

Madam Speaker, I go further onto another Standing Order on issues of offensive weapons, which are very well detailed.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member behind me from Milenge has come with a handbag. Firstly, he is not a woman, he is a man. He has come with a black handbag made of crocodile skin. He has warned me, Hon. Nkombo, that it is full of powder and other offensive weapons.

 

Madam Speaker, how can I be in your Chamber with such a dangerous man behind me? Offensive weapons are not allowed here. I would ask you to allow me to lay this weapon on the Table.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mtolo: I am not at peace here. Is he in order to come with such a handbag and with offensive weapons like he has? I need your very kind ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we see the bag and the weapon?

 

Mr Chonde showed the bag to the House.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Although we have not seen the weapon, we have seen the bag. Hon. Member, according to our Standing Orders, which we have here, only women are allowed to come with handbags. The men are not supposed to carry any bag in the House. So, the hon. Member for Milenge is out of order for coming in the House with a bag.

 

Laughter

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Milenge is asking what message of hope we have, and he prefixed his question by reminding us that we are now in office and it is our responsibility to run the country and he is right. What we do not appreciate is when we are labelled as if we have done something wrong when that comes from the previous administration.

 

Madam Speaker, I think we are also in order to remind the party opposite of the things it did, especially when the hon. Members from there bring those issues and pretend that they were caused by us. We will not shy away by continuously reminding them. Otherwise, our desire is to be mature and run the country as one unit. To the people of Milenge, the hon. Member is right that they require these facilities. Even as this particular unit was removed by the previous administration, going forward, the hon. Member should engage with relevant ministries to see what can be done in future to ensure that this particular item is put back on the budget.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is quite right to say that he has engaged with me. We do not shut our doors to anybody. I think we run an open Government because we understand that the hon. Members opposite are really part of the legislature. They are part of Government, which has three arms. As I have said, my next visit is into Luapula Province, and we will be checking on these infrastructures and making sure that they are done.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Deputy Chief Whip, did you want to raise a point of order?

 

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, it was the same observation that the hon. Minister of Agriculture made on Hon. Chonde because we had been counselling him and we appreciate your ruling.

 

Mr Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, this mini hospital, especially the Milenge Mini Hospital in particular and as the hon. Minister is aware, there is one which is under construction in Mambilima and of course, the finished one in Chembe. What strategy does the Government have to review the scope of work knowing that all these mini hospitals that are under construction have no component of a mortuary? For instance, Chembe Mini Hospital has opened,but there is no mortuary there. What strategy is there?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Although it is like we are now going in another direction because the question was why the construction of Mapula Mini Hospital in Milenge District has stalled. Now, we are trying to add in other components. Hon. Minister, do you have an answer for that question?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think it is good that we engage. The hon. Member for Chembe is quite right. I think he has just confirmed that there are mini hospitals being constructed all over Luapula to the extent of the numbers that I gave a bit earlier. With regards to some of the things that were left out, we do recognise that certain things which are very necessary for the good running of these mini hospitals were left out. It is up to us now, going forward, as part of the correcting mechanism that we are doing that we take these issues in into future plans.

 

Madam Speaker, I will give the hon. Member an example. In Lundazi, there is a beautiful hospital just before Lundazi, but there is no mother’s shelter. There is no place where mothers and others can stay while looking after their patients. As of now, they have to make do with the unfinished mortuary and that is where they are spending nights. Those of us who have moved around have seen this. These are painful things that we have to correct. However, it takes time to correct these matters and we shall do that.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. We have been crying about mini hospitals, of which we have learnt that some provinces received even twenty each. Is the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development now in order to be telling the people that he is going to be visiting and seeing what is happening in those provinces which received twenty hospitals, leaving provinces like the Central Province, which did not receive those mini hospitals?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: All I can say is that the hon. Minister has got his own plan of activities. If you want him to visit your area, there is no harm of you going to the office and requesting him to do so. Otherwise we are independent and we do not know what the hon. Ministers have planned. We do not know their plans. So, please find time, hon. Member, to visit your hon. Minister or even invite him to your constituency. So, the hon. Minister is actually in order to give that response.

 

Mr Kalimi (Malole): Madam Speaker, I am becoming very worried that the issue of ethnicity is almost dividing us. We are speaking without basing what we are saying on data or even research. I will give an example. Ninety-nine mini hospitals and clinics in the Southern Province were built and completed. In Muchinga Province, fifty-one were built, seventy-four in the Northern Province and seventy-four were completed in Luapula Province. Only 15 per cent of the mini hospitals in the Northern Province were cancelled after they were done by that time. Therefore, it is not right for people to come here and say the Southern Province was not given any mini hospitals. Let us talk about national building. We should not talk about regionalism, no, that is very wrong. My question is very simple –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, you are not debating the response by the hon. Minister. Can you please go straight to your question.

 

Mr Kalimi: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for your guidance, I was just trying to build up the question because I have seen the house is almost dividing without even researching.

 

Madam Speaker, my concern is over Milenge. Since that contract was terminated, what have we done to give an alternative to the people of Milenge because they have suffered a lot?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Malole for that observation. I think we have dealt with the issues here. The question was specific about this mini hospital, and it was: when are we going to construct it. We have answered that this was not on the plan which we inherited from the previous administration.

 

Madam Speaker, if that points to the fact that as a result of the removal of this mini hospital, we have caused the people of Milenge to suffer unduly, surely that suffering was caused by the PF which was in administration. It is the one that removed this unit from the list. Our role as the New Dawn Administration of His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema is to correct and fix these matters. That is why we have said we will do that. We have implored Hon. Chonde that we must discuss and see if we can put it in future plans. That is the message that we are giving to the people of Milenge.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT IN SIAVONGA DISTRICT

 

288. Mr Mulunda (Siavonga) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct the following infrastructure in Siavonga District:

 

1. a modern bus station; and

 

1. a modern market;

 

        b. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

 

       c. if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a modern bus station and a modern market. The plans will be included in the 2023/2024 Budget and implemented subject to availability of funds.

 

Madam Speaker, as stated above, plans to construct the modern bus station and the market are there hence part (c) of the question falls off.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

SINKING OF BOREHOLES IN CHAMA NORTH CONSTITUENCY

 

289. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to sink boreholes in the following wards in Chama North Parliamentary Constituency:

 

1. Ndunda;

 

1. Luangwa; and

 

1. Chisunga;

 

       b. if so, when the plans will be implemented, considering that the people share the same water holes with               domestic and wild animals;

 

        c. whether the Government has any plans to construct a dam in Chama District; and

 

       d. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, yes, the Government has plans to sink boreholes in Chisunga Ward, Luangwa Ward and Ndunda Ward under Chama North Parliamentary Constituency.

 

Madam, the plans to sink boreholes in Ndunda, Chisunga and Luangwa wards will be implemented in the second and third quarters of 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has an ongoing programme for the construction of dams and weirs national wide, which also includes Chama District.

 

Madam, the plans will be implemented after conducting a pre-feasibility study in the district for the identification of potential dam sites, as and when funds are available.

 

I thank you Madam.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response and I can safely say the people of Chama North will be very excited if at all boreholes will be sunk in these areas. There are no boreholes in places such as Luangwa and Chisunga. You will find that since independence, the whole ward only has maybe two boreholes. So, we are grateful and it is our prayer that this will be done as quickly as possible to address this problem because in Luangwa Ward, people share water with wild animals. I think time has come for our people to be able access water.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you. That was a comment.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I am a bit confused. In his response, the hon. Minister indicated that the Government will drill boreholes. However, he changed and said the Government has to conduct feasibility studies and then later, he said, if funds are available.

 

Madam, in his response, the hon. Minister indicated that these boreholes are going to be drilled this year. Indeed, the people of Chama are really suffering because it is a Game Management Area (GMA), so they share water with wild animals and we lose many of our women to crocodiles as they fetch water. How long will it take for those feasibility studies to be done?

 

Madam, is the hon. Minister also assuring the people of Chama North that if money will not be available, these boreholes will not be provided because he said if funds are not going to be available, the boreholes will not be provided? Which information should we give the people of Chama North?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, please remove the confusion from the hon. Member.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, it is usually very difficult to remove the confusion when people choose to confuse themselves, but let me try to clarify.

 

Madam, the question I was responding to was in four parts. The first part was to do with the issue of boreholes and then in part (c), there was a question of whether the Government had plans to construct a dam. The aspect to do with the requirement to conduct a pre-feasibility study was to do with the dam. As for the boreholes, I have indicated that we shall drill them in the stated wards.

 

Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of this opportunity to confirm that we have allocated twenty-four boreholes for Chama District as a whole in our work plan.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chaatila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to raise a point of order. My point of order is from Standing Order 65 (b) and is on the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South.

 

Madam, during the Twelfth National Assembly, which my hon. Colleague was a part of, he is on record as having said, on so many occasions, that his Government, then the Patriotic Front (PF), had taken unprecedented development to all areas of Chama.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutelo: Mung’andu!

 

Mr Chaatila: I feel pity for my hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North who is new in this House.

 

Madam Speaker, today, the hon. Member for Parliament for Chama South is saying his people that side are suffering when he was on record saying that there was unprecedented development under the PF Government.

 

Madam Speaker, is he in order to bring these lamentations now and ...

 

Mr Mutelo: Misleading the nation and himself!

 

Mr Chaatila: ... misleading the nation and also himself?

 

Madam, I seek your serious ruling on this matter.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think things have changed. How I wish he had brought evidence at that time to prove that there was development in the constituency. Unfortunately, there was no evidence of that, so we are going to take what is prevailing on the ground now. So, can we allow the hon. Member of Parliament to talk about the prevailing situation now, instead of what he used to say at that time.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Things have changed, and he is now on the left and you are on the right.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: So, it shows that things have changed, but can we please listen or allow the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South to bring to this House the reality on the ground for the sake of the people of Chama South.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, I know that the hon. Minister’s office is under siege in terms of the demands that are flying to his table requesting for these boreholes, including in Chienge.

 

Madam, I am aware that it is costly for the Government and the ministry to drill these boreholes. Does the ministry have the in-house equipment that is used to drill these boreholes, such as drilling rigs and other equipment, or does it entirely depend on engaging contractors to drill the boreholes?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, our ministry has drilling rigs in each of the ten provinces. However, due to the demand and the fact that we need to finish these works in good time, we, from time to time, outsource the services of drilling these boreholes.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, the issue of hand pumps has become very challenging. Every time boreholes are sunk, it does not take long before the hand pumps are damaged. If you take stock throughout the country, especially in Chama North Constituency, you will see that we have so many boreholes that were drilled but cannot function because they have no spares. Does the hon. Minister have plans to drill solar boreholes because these hand pumps are not serving any purpose?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, first of all, it is true that quite a number of the boreholes we have drilled are non-functional due to many reasons, one of which would be the quality of water, which affects the lifespan of the borehole, but sometimes it is just an issue of spare parts. So, what we are doing as a ministry is that as we plan to drill more boreholes to ensure that we provide access to clean water to our people in rural areas, we are also putting measures in place to ensure that the non-functional boreholes are serviced.

 

Madam, we have also embarked on a programme to build capacity in communities to ensure that our people are trained and empowered with skills to service these boreholes.  Further, we are also providing community shops in various parts of rural areas to ensure that the spare parts which are required to service or repair these boreholes are easily accessed in the rural areas.

 

Madam Speaker, with regards to the second part of the question on whether we have plans to fit what I think he meant are solar-powered pumps, yes in the long term, we would want to migrate the many communities in these rural areas from hand pump dependent boreholes to the ones that will be powered by solar and, indeed, provide water reticulation systems.

 

Madam, for the water reticulation system, if I may just explain a bit on that one, they work better in the villages where you have bigger numbers of people. In the rural set up where people are sparsely located in terms of settling, it becomes very difficult to provide that kind of a system. What becomes ideal is a hand pump based borehole. So, we shall have to strike a balance depending on the settlements in these communities.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kalimi: Madam Speaker, firstly, the hon. Minister told the House that there is a need to carry out a feasibility study in Chama North in order to come up with how many boreholes are going to be drilled. However, I am happy because in its work plan, the ministry has indicated that there are twenty-four boreholes which are already allocated for Chama District. Is the Government going to proceed with the feasibility study? Secondly, when is the hon. Minister going to visit these constituencies or districts to appreciate what the people are going through particularly in Chama? Thirdly, has the Government tried to take stock of these rigs in all the provinces to find out if, indeed, they are functional or not?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member!

 

The rule is that you only ask one question. So, in that case, the hon. Minister will pick one question.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, the question under part (c), if you may permit me, I will have to go through the answer I provided under part (c).

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has an on-going programme for the construction of dams and weirs nationwide, which includes Chama District. I hope the hon. Member who has asked is listening because I can see him chatting.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, are you listening?

 

Mr Kalimi indicated assent.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, under question (d) the plans will be implemented after conducting a pre-feasibility study in the district for the identification of potential dam sites.

 

Madam Speaker, I did explain that the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North was in two parts. One was talking about boreholes and the other one was talking about whether the Government has plans to construct a dam. So, the issue of the pre-feasibility study is on the dam. For the boreholes, there is no requirement or the need for us to conduct a pre-feasibility study. The boreholes will be drilled. We have allocated twenty-four boreholes for the whole Chama District. However, for the dam, that is where we need to do the pre-feasibility study to check where we have potential sites for water.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr C. Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, the key issue here is clean water. The people of Chama want clean water whether the Government sink boreholes. What plans does the Government have? As much as the Government sinks these boreholes, what plans does it have if any to make sure that the water which the people of Chama are taking will always be clean water? Does the Government have any plans?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, it is the desire of my ministry and this Government to ensure that we provide not only adequate water but clean and safe water. However, this water is stored underground and I cannot guarantee that in all the areas where we will be drilling boreholes the quality of water will be the way we would want it to be. This is because sometimes, you find that certain areas have boreholes that bring out water with iron. So, I cannot really pre-commit and say that the entire boreholes we are going to drill are going to bring out quality water. However, it is our desire that we provided our people with clean water.

 

Madam Speaker, indeed, the Government has a plan because in all the areas where it is drilling these boreholes, one of the key issues is to ensure that before people begin to consume that water, it has to do the pump testing and also test the quality of water it is getting from those boreholes and also the yield which it will be getting from a particular borehole.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF COMPUTER AND SCIENCE LABORATORIES IN BWANA MKUBWA CONSTITUENCY

 

290. Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa) asked the Minister of Education:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct computer and science laboratories at the following combined schools in Bwana Mkubwa Parliamentary Constituency:

 

1. Caritas;

 

1. Ndeke;

 

1. Itawa;

 

1. Yengwe;

 

1. Chalubemba;

 

1. Twikatane; and

 

1. Twalubuka;

 

  b. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, I inform the House that the Government has plans to construct computer and sciences laboratories at Caritas, Ndeke, Itawa, Yengwe, Chalubemba, Twalubuka and Twikatane.

 

Madam, the plans will be implemented when the funds are made available.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, I would like to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister that Bwana Mkubwa Constituency has had no secondary school since 1964 and we rely on those combined schools for the provision of secondary facilities to our children.

 

Are there any immediate plans for some of those schools which we rely on? In the absence of those facilities, our children will have to walk to Masala and other institutions to do their practicals.

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, it is quite unfortunate if from 1964, the constituency has not had a secondary school. I know that Nkeke, Caritas, Itawa and Twalubuka do not have science and computer laboratories. However, at Yengwe, the school has constructed a one by two science laboratory with funding from the Dominican Sisters, while the Government has installed gas pipes and provided laboratory equipment. I wish we could do more than this. It is quite unfortunate that in the last fifty years, since 1964, which is more than fifty years, the constituency has not had a secondary school. So, we are hoping that as the Government, we can do likewise, in the next budgets to come. The country is actually having a problem in terms of computer and science laboratories.

 

Madam Speaker, suffice to say that going forward, we are trying to look for resources where we would need to equip many of our schools with technology. We have been lagging behind in terms of so many revolutions. We had no agrarian revolution and no industrial revolution as a country. Now, we are getting into technological revolutions. So, it is our desire that every child who goes to school at least sees a tablet in future rather than going from early childhood education and only seeing a computer or information technology equipment when they go to universities or when they come to Parliament, if they are elected.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, the answer by the hon. Minister said “when funds are available.” Science and computer laboratories are very important to our pupils not only in Bwana Mkubwa, but also countywide because pupils are assessed on the assumption that they have comprehended what is taught in these laboratories. The answer “when funds are available” is very depressing. That is the thing that this Government promised to fix. It said it would fix.

 

Hon. Government Members: We are fixing.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Now, how long will the people of Bwana Mkubwa wait before they see these computer laboratories? How long will they wait? Is the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) going to be an option? If yes, when is it being released? There is the perception by the people out there that the CDF has been released, yet we have only received K635,000 for high school boarding pupils. We have not received the CDF. Is the ministry going to factor in the CDF? Has the ministry had a discussion with the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development who I know is a bit practical when it comes to implementation?

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, our Standing Orders prohibit us from discussing individuals and ourselves. I will quote the actual Standing Order when I am done.

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament, the Acting Leader of the Opposition, ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: ... also acting as Chief Whip for the Opposition, in order to bring me in his debate, when I am listening very quietly? He described me as “a bit practical,” which I find derogatory. Is he in order to bring me in his debate? The Acting Leader of the Opposition, ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: ... is clubbing as Opposition Whip at the same time.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Thank you for that point of order. The hon. Member for Chama South was actually out of order to bring in another person in another ministry’s question. Hon. Member, if you have a question on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), it is better you raise it. It is very important, but raise it so that the specific hon. Minister can attend to it. The question we are looking at does not have any component of CDF. So, I feel that you were out of order and I advise you to bring in a question specifically for the CDF because it is like you are bringing another question into another question so that it can be answered. That is my ruling.

 

Mr Kalimi: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government has been preaching free education, which we appreciate, although it is not done.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Kalimi: Free education will not be attained without these children not having computer lessons because computer lessons are compulsory, and these children are entitled to take the examination. What is being done to provide computers for these people of Bwana Mkubwa so that they do not lack computer lessons and they can compete favourably with the people of Kabulonga and Matero?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the desire of this Government is to make sure that a child learns computer lessons. This is why I said it our desire to do that. According to the Bwana Mkubwa hon. Member of Parliament, these schools were built somewhere in 1964. Several Governments have passed, including the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. The PF Government was in charge for ten years and did nothing. At least, we have installed gas pipes and provided equipment to this one laboratory. That has been the journey in the last three and a half months. I am sure you cannot judge this Government or the President in six months.

 

Madam Speaker, I do not like referring to the past because the past was toxic. We need to have fresh air, which all of you are breathing now, especially in the education system. You are hon. Members of Parliament yourselves and you know the damage which was caused to the education system. I have been to some of these places. Where you see me here, you provoke me when you start talking about education because there are things I have seen on the ground which are very unacceptable and never again should we do this to our education system.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Syakalima: My hon. Colleague from Malole, I will be going to Kasama on Monday to grace the opening of some schools that have been built by some of our hon. Colleagues. I am not quite sure whether Malole is involved. That is the desire of this Government. We tell those people who help us to build some schools to do certain things such as equipping laboratories. The money which should have gone into building all these schools and laboratories found its way elsewhere.

 

Madam Speaker, we will make sure that our children learn properly. Our view is that when we start early childhood education, somewhere somehow, we want to find money to provide computer lessons so that a child at three years old can play with a computer. That is the desire. My picture is very clear. We can do it. Go and check what is happening in Rwanda; every child has a tablet. What does Rwanda have which we do not have here?

 

Hon. Government Members: They are thieves!

 

Mr Syakalima: The point is that –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Members, please, let us give chance to the hon. Minister to answer. There are no thieves in this House. I can only see hon. Members.

 

Mr Syakalima: The point is that we should fight corruption because corruption takes away that very money which should have gone to build these laboratories, both science and computer laboratories. If we can fight corruption to the end, we can manage to build laboratories. Can you imagine how many laboratories could be built from that K65 million which was collected from an individual? How about those people we do not know?

 

So, the fight should help us. You must abhor corruption even if you are in the Opposition. Help us look for people who have got money, which they got from the state. You heard when the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development told us about contracts where people used to supply air but they were being given money. So, those are the things that can help us. I can see my brother from Malole shaking his head, but this is reality. Hon. Leader of the Opposition, these are realities of today.

 

Madam Speaker, the desire of this Government is to make sure that our children learn in a normal environment. We must have computers and laboratories. A child is taught to spell a certain word and he/she is only imagining what a computer is; learning in abstract rather than having a hands-on approach. So, that is the desire. As Zambians, if we are all determined to do little we can achieve it because we have got what it takes to do all these things. What is embarrassing is that Somalia’s education system is straight even if it has failed as a country.  You may say that Zimbabwe’s economy is not okay but when you go to the University of Zimbabwe, you will see that they have a school system which the previous Government damaged.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, since I am speaking for the first time since the demise of that son of Africa, Rupiah Banda, I pass my condolences to his family, to the Zambians and the world at large. I also pass my special condolences to the people of the Eastern Province.

 

Madam Speaker, I listened here while the hon. Minister was giving responses on the issue of Bwana Mkubwa and why laboratories have not been built. I have a concern; the hon. Minister said there are no funds. That answer is so disturbing on this side and to the Zambians in general because the previous Government’s Budget finished end of last year. We are in the New Dawn Government almost finishing quarter one; the month of March. Is the hon. Minister confirming that in these three months, this Government has failed to raise money to meet its budgetary needs, if so why? Lastly, in the same vein, the hon. Minister keeps mentioning the Patriotic Front (PF) –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member! Ask only one question.

 

Mr Sampa: It is the same question. It is related.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Then there is no need of repeating. I think it was loud and clear. For me, that is a different question that you are going to ask.

 

Mr Sampa: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, when I was giving responding to part (a) of the question, I said the Government has got plans. Now, when the hon. Member asks if we have failed to raise funds, he should check the budget lines and check where we have failed to raise funds. The Government is running and people are getting salaries. In the past, there used to be problems, especially in universities. They never used to get salaries.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government is raising funds and people are getting paid. The hon. Member should go and read the budget lines and check where he thinks money has not been raised. Does the hon. Member have the Yellow Book? I will invite him to come and check my Yellow Book, but I am sure he has one.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I just want to draw your attention to the fact that the resource envelop is very weak. The issue of computers in schools, speaking for my constituency, has always been a challenge and as Member of Parliament, during exams, I always have to come in and assist. Is there anything the ministry is doing with the co-operating partners to try and seek support so that these schools can be equipped with at least a minimum of five computers to support the Information and Communications Technology (ICT) programmes?

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, in my discourse when answering the Member of Parliament, I indicated that the desire is to take these computers to early childhood education. Like he said, the resource envelop is too small, meaning that we are going out of our way. Indeed, we are engaging so many co-operating partners. When we come across some who are willing, we shall delve into that. I agree with the hon. Member that it is really a difficult situation that we are in. It is a dense situation, but we need to die a little bit in order to look from elsewhere. Otherwise, I agree with the hon. Member, the resources envelop is quite small, but we need to do something hence us getting to other co-operating partners. We shall be able to report back whenever we come across people who agree will with us. However, certain things are in the offing.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Lumezi an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Education a question. The good people of Lumezi do not have access to electricity. Most of the computers that the pupils are using are those that generate their source of energy from solar. Do you have a deliberate policy to bring solar systems into these schools?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, the question was for schools in Bwana Mkubwa. I do not know if you can come up with a specific question for Lumezi. I am sure the people of Lumezi will be very happy to hear their Member of Parliament representing them through that very important question.

 

Hon. Minister, do you think you can answer that question relating it to Bwana Mkubwa?

 

Mr Mumba Nalakusansa powder

 

Mr Munir Zulu rose.

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I am giving him a bonus answer, but he is fidgeting.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you can go straight ahead to the question. Please provide the answer.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Syakalima: I will not answer the hon. Member. I am giving him a bonus answer then he is disturbing me again.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: I have a serious point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member!

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, my safety behind is not guaranteed.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, the hon. Minister is on the Floor. I know was going to come to you. Since the hon. Minister is already on the Floor, let us allow him to finish responding. Could the hon. Minister please respond, then I will get back to you, hon. Member.

 

Mr Syakalima: Do not worry, you are safe.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, rest assured, the Government is looking in all those angles of trying to provide solar systems to our people. Not only in the hon. Member’s constituency, but also the entire country where there is no electricity which is got from the main grid. That is the desire of this Government.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Do you still want to raise a point of order?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, when I was paying attention to the hon. Minister and the hon. Member behind me (Mr Mumba) kept on saying nizamutila powder uyu.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is that?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, maybe, I should shift to the other side to be safe. I seek your indulgence.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We take that as a joke. You are free to sit anywhere. I think we have plenty of room in the House.

 

OPERATIONALISING THE LOCAL COURT IN KALABO CONSTITUENCY

 

291. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Justice:

 

(a)        when the local court in Nguma Ward in Kalabo Parliamentary Constituency will become operational; and

 

(b)        what the cause of the delay in operationalising it is.

 

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe): Madam Speaker, I inform the House that Kapondo Local Court in Nguma Ward of Kalabo Parliamentary Constituency will be operationalised when funds for the construction of a court building are made available.

 

Madam, the temporary structure, which was initially used by the community and later surrendered to the Judiciary to be used as a local court, collapsed around 2012/2013 hence the closure of the court to date.

 

Madam, the cause of the delay in operationalising the Kapondo Local Court is that there has been no immediate funds towards the building of the court infrastructure. It is the plan of the New Dawn Government that a court infrastructure in Nguma Ward in Kalabo Parliamentary Constituency is included in the 2023 Budget as it is not in the scope for the current 2022 Budget under the Judiciary’s plan for the said year.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, we appreciate the response by the hon. Minister. However, the people of Nguma Ward have to travel 90 km for them to seek justice at the nearest court. What would be the immediate interventions whilst we are waiting for the budgetary allocation for the construction of that court? What would be the immediate measures to help alleviate the suffering of those who have to walk long distances to seek justice?

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the supplementary question. Indeed, justice is a critical aspect of the lives of all our citizens and we do commiserate with the people of Nguma Ward on the suffering that they are undergoing. However, without seeming to belabour the point, the hon. Member will note that this is been a historical and perennial problem from 2012 to 2013 when the previously used structure became unusable. It is my hope and belief that the hon. Member might be able to help in alleviating the current suffering of the people through the provision of a temporally structure under the Constituency Development Funds (CDF) that will be made readily available shortly. In that way, we can partner with him in the interest of the people of Nguma Ward.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that justice is an integral part of our lives. Indeed, the situation which the people of Nguma Ward in Kalabo are facing is not different from the situation in Chama because the magistrates court is 98 per cent complete, but it has not been operationalised.

 

Madam, this question is talking of a local court in Nguma Ward being operational. That is what it says here, but the hon. Minister is talking about construction. I would like to know when the ministry will make this court operational so that the people of Nguma Ward can start receiving the much needed justice before they resort to means that are not legal in resolving their disputes.

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, there is an old adage which says ‘The Devil is in the detail.’ The detail in the answer that I have given quite clearly shows that there is non-existent structure since the temporary structure that was being used collapsed. I do not understand the question to the extent that the hon. Member expects that there can be operationalisation of a non-existent structure. You cannot put the cart before the horse. First of all, there must be construction, which has been scheduled for 2023 and then, we can put in the necessary facilities to operationalise; staff, equipment and so on and so forth.

 

So, the answer to the question therefore, and indeed, there are many of our districts in the country that are suffering in the same fate are the wards. We are requesting the hon. Member to be kind enough to provide another temporary structure through the CDF funds whilst the long term arrangements are be put in place.

 

Madam Speaker, likewise, if the hon. Member has similar challenges in his constituency, given the good plans of the New Dawn Government, to give K25.7 million in CDF, let us be patriotic and address those questions pending a final solution to the problems created in the past.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of the elaborate answers.

 

Madam, Kalabo Central and Nalolo share a boundary and I am alive to the fact that justice is being delivered under trees. I do acknowledge your sentiments over the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and that this could the same for other constituencies.

 

Madam, is the considering doing a needs assessment for these courts so that we do not have a situation where some constituencies construct local courts and so on and so forth. Is the ministry considering to do a needs a assessment for how many of such courts the people of Kalabo need and how feasible is it for this to be done through the CDF? This is in relation to some of us.

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I am grateful for that question from the hon. Member for Nalolo. The question has somehow strayed from the specific item we are addressing. However, I will be in a possible to give a general response which is to the effect that firstly, the hon. Member will recall that the 2022 Budget was passed by this House and a significant portion, which is an increase of 40 per cent on the Judiciary’s Budget, so as to allow for infrastructure development. So, a needs assessment has been done and a scoping of what can be done in the year has already been achieved and some of the local courts will be worked on. I believe the criterion is above 65 per cent completion. Those that do to fall in that category will be dealt with in next year’s Budget and subsequent Budgets, but to answer your questions more specifically, a needs assessment has been done. It is important to note that sadly, the data shows us that these facilities were never a priority for that last ten years. This is why we see the dilapidation we are seeing now. We should all take a moral scope of how we found ourselves in this position even the lack of priority for such important infrastructure for the people. This should not be allowed to happen again, going forward.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Lumezi an opportunity to ask a question on behalf of their brothers and sisters in Nguma Ward. We know for a fact that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has not been given to us in our respective constituencies. In one breath, the hon. Minister is saying that the hon. Member of Parliament should consider using part of the CDF. In another breath, the hon. Minister is telling the people of Nguma Ward that maybe, next year, he will consider operationalising the local court. What is the exact position? Let us not give answers that will leave people in suspense.

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, it is important for us as hon. Members of this House to listen carefully when answers to questions are being given. If we fail to do so, we end up misleading ourselves.

 

Madam, firstly, if the hon. Member is, as he should be, privy to the provisions of the Constituency Development Fund Act, he would note that disbursement of CDF can only occur after the first quarter and when all the projects have been scoped and submitted. Therefore, it is neither here nor there for the hon. Member or, indeed, any other hon. Member in this House, to say we have not received the funds yet. It is premature. The quarter has not yet ended. Another adage we use is that ignorance of the law is no defence. Hon. Members of this House are required to be vested with knowledge in the law so that they debate from an informed position rather than misleading the nation.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, the answer on Nguma is very clear. I will repeat it for the sake of the hon. Member. There is no scope this year for working on the local court at Nguma under the Judiciary’s budget. However, our request is that a temporary arrangement can be made through CDF pending construction of a facility under the 2023 budget by the Judiciary. There is no contradiction there. It is extremely clear. Let us learn to listen in this House.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kalimi: Madam Speaker, we cannot wait for the operationalisation of the local court in Kalabo because justice delayed is justice denied. When we were appearing for the electoral petitions, even classrooms, churches and council chambers were courts. What are we doing as a Government, not to deny justice to these people of Kalabo? Have we put in place certain mechanisms or provisions to make sure that justice is delayed on time?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am sure the hon. Minister has just answered that. Anyway, hon. Minister you can respond.

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I do not know how justice can be delayed on time. Maybe, I missed what the hon. Member was trying to express there. That said, as the hon. Madam Speaker has already guided, the question has been answered in so many different ways. At the end of the day, if we are talking about having sat in classrooms, in churches and all sorts of infrastructure, my answer to that is that we, at least under the New Dawn Government, have done what is possible to be done in this current Budget by increasing the allocation to the Judiciary by 40 per cent.

 

Madam Speaker, the lamentations about sitting in classrooms and so on and so forth are the very same matters that hon. Members on your left have been saying let us not keep talking about the past. That is the past that the hon. Member is speaking of. We are coming from a legacy of careless use of funds and lack of prioritisation. Where you are sitting now and complaining that there is no infrastructure is as a result of a clear failure by our predecessors to construct and maintain facilities in the interest of our the people. Instead, monies were used for personal aggrandisement, and today, the very hon. Members on your left want to come and ask us to sort out their problems like yesterday.

 

Madam, that cannot be done. Let us take a moral position as I said earlier and deal with these matters from a point of realism. The New Dawn Government has done what it can in the limited fiscal space by allowing an increase of 40 per cent in the Judiciary’s budget. This will be done year by year progressively in an orderly fashion, not in the manner that things were done in the past. So, let us implement and walk together and pray that the people of Zambia will never make a similar mistake of voting in persons that do not have their interests at heart.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND. Members: Hear, hear!

 

STALLED REHABILITATION WORKS ON THE CHASEFU/CHIFUNDA ROAD

 

292. Mr Mung’andu asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

 

1. why the rehabilitation works on the Chasefu/Chifunda road have stalled;
2. when the project will resume;
3. who the contractor for the project is;
4. how much was paid to the contractor, as of September, 2021;
5. what the total cost of the project is; and
6. what the time frame for the completion of the project is.

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation works on the Chasefu/Chifunda Road are part of the project for the upgrading of the Isoka/Muyombe/Chama/Lundazi Road to bituminous standard in the Eastern and Muchinga provinces of Zambia, that was Lot 4. The works on the project have stalled due to funding challenges.

 

Madam Speaker, the works on the project will resume once funds are available.

 

Madam Speaker, the contractor engaged on the project is Messrs. China Civil Engineering Construction Corporation Zambia Limited.

 

Madam Speaker, as of September, 2021 the contractor had been paid K47,027,265.59.

 

Madam Speaker, the total cost for the re-scoped project is K164,604,895.78, Value Added Tax (VAT) inclusive.

 

Madam Speaker, the time frame for the completion of the project is eighteen months.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the people of Lumezi are worried with the answers that are coming from the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. This is so because we are not too far apart with the good people of Chasefu. The road has not known a tarmac since 1964 or maybe, permit me to say before Zambia became a State.

 

Madam, we have been talking of rehabilitation and looking at the availability of funds and a contractor given a contract. I do not want to go unparliamentary with my submission. It is my wish that the hon. Minister goes into a public-private partnership (PPP) project on that road because it has good traffic and we see no need for us to be talking of eighteen months when we know very well that for the last five or ten years, eighteen months has never come. If the hon. Minister is going to do the project in eighteen months, why should it take ten years? Does the hon. Minister consider taking the Chasefu/Chama Road under PPP project?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Lumezi for that intervention. Unfortunately, he has mixed a few facts here. Firstly, he said that his constituency is neighbouring Chasefu or that it is near Chasefu. That may be correct, but this particular constituency is not Chasefu, it is Chama South.

 

Madam Speaker, secondly, he is speaking of the public-private partnership (PPP) on this particular road and just to refresh his mind, the road he is talking about because is the Chasefu/Chifunda Road is part of the project to upgrade the Isoka to Muyombe to Chama and of course, Chama to Lundazi to bituminous standard.

 

Madam Speaker, in management, when we are doing project appraisals and so on, there is what is called self cannibalisation, which is where you bring in things that essentially compete with your own product before that product has achieved what we call the product life cycle. When you are still making money out of it, you go and create something else that competes with that particular project.

 

Madam Speaker, so, in this PPP project, we have to be very careful that we do not create essentially self cannibalisation. In other words, we do a road and another one next to it that will compete with that particular road and therefore, make the ability of the investors or contractor on that road to recoup their investment.

 

Madam Speaker, I say this because the plans of this New Dawn Administration and the focus at the moment is the Matumbo/Chama/Lundazi Road which will then connect into the Chipata/Lundazi Road. This road will open the link between Muchinga through Chipata and therefore, traffic coming out of Nakonde from Dar-es-Salaam and elsewhere will then have a shortcut into the Eastern Province and further on, into Malawi and Mozambique through Katete-Chanida. That is the focus in terms of the PPP.

 

Madam Speaker, as I have said elsewhere, that mode of financing is the one we shall use. It does not mean that works on other roads will not be undertaken. They will be undertaken under different modes of funding, including our own funding from the Treasury when those funds are available and when the economy is improving.

 

Madam Speaker, the Chasefu/Chifunda Road was part of the road that I have talked about which originally, in the previous administration was a bituminous road. They re-scoped it to an all weather gravel and even then, when we are okay financially, we shall undertake this particular work.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, thank you so much. You are very kind. I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order 65 regarding content of speech by the hon. Minister.

 

Madam Speaker, if we go through our Order Paper and compare it with the responses that the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development is giving, we note that he is suggesting different roads from what is obtaining on the Order Paper. I think the hon. Minister is not being factual.

 

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I thought the hon. Minster was responding to questions on the road in question.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, you will guide us, of course, but his answers and what is obtaining on the ground are suggesting that he is responding to a question on a very different road and not the Chasefu/Chifunda Road.

 

Madam Speaker, with those submissions, I am afraid that it is possible that the technocrats have deliberately decided to mislead my uncle who is the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Let me get it clear from the hon. Minister. Were you responding to the question on the Chasefu-Chifunda Road?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the owner of the question is yet to raise a follow-up question. I made it very clear and I am sure when he stands up to raise a follow-up question, he will clarify whether I am answering on the right road or not. What we have said is that even though it is defined as the Chasefu to Chifunda Road, yes that is the road that is on the Order Paper, but it is part of a much longer road which starts from Isoka, comes to Muyombe and goes to Chama, which will touch this particular road. That is the point that I have made. If someone is asking about the Chongwe/Luangwa Road and I say that is part of the Lusaka/Chipata Road, there is nothing wrong with that. It is a statement of fact. I think we are firm on this and very rarely do our technocrats give us wrong information.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Having clarified, I think it is clear now. The hon. Minister is talking about this road which is part and parcel of the road that he mentioned. We can move on.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, clearly the hon. Minister has been misled. The Chama/Chifunda Road has never been part of Chama/Lundazi Road or Chama/Muyombe Road. The contractor on this road is actually Muko Contractors, and not China Civil Engineering Corporation. He has been on the ground for the past six years doing nothing and as I speak, the people of Chifunda are cut off from the rest of the country.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I need to be protected.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Can we give chance to the hon. Member for Chama South to ask a second question. Hon. Member please, you may continue.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to come back to this august House and give a correct response as opposed to that response which the technocrats have misled him? This is because Chama/Chifunda Road has never been part of China Civil Engineering Corporation Project. There are questions coming on the Chama/Chikwa Road and the Chama/Mampamba Road. I am afraid they might give him the same response.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: No, let us look at the one we are currently debating.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, yes, it is not part of China Civil Engineering Corporation. According to my knowledge, the contractor there is Muco Contractors Zambia and this tendency of saying past Government, they should correct things, no wonder they have been put there –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

No, no hon. Member, do not go that way. Please just stick to your question so that the hon. Minister can answer.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to come back with a correct response because the response he is giving is clearly not referring to this road?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South for that intervention. Now, we are one legislature, which is this House. Out of deference for him, because he is holding, even though on a temporally basis, a very honourable position as Leader of the Opposition.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Eng. Milupi: We have to respect him for that. I do not know whether he put himself there, but I am sure somebody has put him there. So, we have to respect him. Together with the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi, he has been insisting that the information that I have is wrong. It is only right and proper that we come back and either establish the facts and apologise or buttress our position.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Since the hon. Minister will come back, I see no use of continuing with the remaining hon. Members.

 

Mr Sampa: No!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we move on to the next question.

 

REHABILITATION OF THE MPONGWE/LUANSOBE ROAD

 

293. Mr Ngowani (Mpongwe) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the Mpongwe/Luansobe Road in Mpongwe District;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, on this one, we are on firm footing, I am sure of that.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has not provided for funds to rehabilitate the Mpongwe/Luansobe Road in Mpongwe District in the current work plan due to challenges in the fiscal space. The rehabilitation of the Mpongwe/Luansobe Road shall only be considered in future plans once funds are made available.

 

Madam Speaker, because of the two answers above, the answer to part (c) of the question is not applicable.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is my favourite Minister because he takes even the unreasonable questions. The question I am about to pose is an unreasonable one.

 

Madam, the Chama/Matumbo Road has the same concept; there is an escarpment there.The Government has to put up a tar road from Muchinga to the Eastern Province, whichever road is used. Even this dam we are talking about, there is no fiscal space, and there is no money. In many of his responses, the hon. Minister has implied that a public-private partnership (PPP) model is the solution; to involve external private investors to partner with the Government to undertake a project and then recover their investment using a tollgate.

 

Madam, is the PPP system of acquiring financing not going to increase the debt structure for this country that the New Dawn Government so does not like, which at the moment is at 12 billion? With the PPP initiative, even if investors use their money, we need our hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to guarantee the project. When it guarantees, it increases the debt because it can be actualised the same day. So, does the hon. Minister think the PPP model as a solution to the roads is not increasing our external debt structure that this Government so hates?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, you have been very kind to the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero, by asking me to answer–

 

Hon. Government Member: Unreasonable question!

 

Eng. Milupi: Not unreasonable, but a divergent question. However, it gives us an opportunity to discuss some of these issues for the sake of our population. This New Dawn Administration is aggressively embarking upon the PPP model of financing for the following reasons:

 

Firstly, it does not put pressure on our balance sheet because it is money from outside. It is money from investors. In terms of outside investors, this is really an investment that will be coming in and helping, first of all, to create opportunities in-country and help towards the stabilisation of the Kwacha and the stabilisation of the economy. If we have a road that is worthyUS$500 million, that is US$500 coming in.

 

Madam, the second benefit is because the investor and the contractor have an interest in that particular road, especially for the duration of the concession period. We are more certain that quality infrastructure will arise out of this financing mechanism. Part of the deal is that at the end of the concession period, this road, in addition to having been maintained throughout the life of the concession period, will be handed over to the Government in an immaculate condition before they walk away.

 

Madam, so, those are the benefits. Now, the way we are structuring the PPP model is by ensuring that we do not put pressure on the Treasury. There is no money coming from the Treasury. In other words, it is off balance sheet.

 

Madam Speaker, secondly, the Government does not wish to add to the national debt. That is a given because we are already an over-borrowed State and I am speaking to a banker who understands these things.

 

Madam Speaker, thirdly, the Government will not issue any sovereign guarantee on the PPP model. It is an investment from outside, and they will use the revenues arising out of the revenue collection mechanisms on these infrastructures to recoup their investment and the profit that could have been factored in their investment.

 

Madam Speaker, so, I ask this House to be very supportive of this particular innovation because it allows us to embark on infrastructure development even when we have limited funds. We are not able to borrow because the borrowing capacity has been reduced by the total debt that we have, which at the moment is just under US$27 billion. If we were to allow to disburse even more on agreed funding on certain projects which we are working on, that would push us on foreign debt to about US$18 billion to US$19 billion because we reckon that our review of figures actually indicate that there is an extra 4 billion now. This country has no capacity to undertake such borrowing. That is why the focus is to restructure the debt to put the economy back on track. When that is done, we shall then be able to finance a number of projects on our balance sheet and maybe even borrow, but borrowing then will be at concessionary rate on projects that can pay for themselves.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Ngowani: Madam Speaker, there is talk–

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700hours.

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Ngowani: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying this is an economical road and it has a toll gate. Motorists using this road have been asking where the money they pay at the toll gate goes because it has not been maintained for many years.

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, this point of order relates to the conduct of hon. Members, particularly hon. Ministers.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, our Standing Orders are very clear that –

 

Mr J. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, there is already a Member on the Floor.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I want to clearly state that after the demise of our beloved former Republican President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, may his soul rest in peace, Bembas countrywide have gone on rampage.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, in Chama, Bembas are confiscating bicycles and detaining them if the owners do not pay K5. Instead of cycling their bicycles, people in Chama and part of the Eastern Province are now walking. This has extended to Parliament. As we speak, you can see what these Bembas have done to the hon. Member for Petauke Central, our able hon. Minister for Water Development and Sanitation, Hon. Mike Mposha, and the hon. Member for Chama North. The hon. Minister of Agriculture seems to be very elusive.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: He is the only one who has survived, but I can see he is already in trouble.

 

Madam, are these Bembas in order to bring this powdering and they are powdering limitlessly?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: They will remove your spectacles and stockings to powder them. Are they in order to bring this powdering into the Chamber, thereby disturbing the proceedings of Parliament? I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam, there is also the issue of the mourning period. Why can they not do this activity on Friday?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: They started the very day that our late President passed on and it has been nonstop. I need your serious ruling. Should we legislate this activity as hon. Members of Parliament?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I take this as a light moment. I am sure the powdering was done outside this House. I would not allow it to be done in the House, but since it is a light moment, I would ask the hon. Members affected to clean up a bit so that your people can recognise you.

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. Banda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr J. Banda: Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the good people of Petauke an opportunity to explain the dangerous pouring of powder.

 

Madam, I have seen that the hon. Member for Roan and the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services have dangerous weapons in their pockets. I am asking if they can be searched before the pouring of powder can continue.

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. Banda: They are pouring powder on us before even kuzing us or giving us money for mukuzo.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is mukuzo?

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. Banda: Madam Speaker, according to our culture, you need to pay something to say sorry. So, before pouring powder, they needed to pay something, so that we can even buy soap to clean our clothes, but it is like they are also very broke, ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. Banda: ...especially the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services who was supposed to first remove money. However, even though they are broke, they are just pouring powder on people like my brother there, the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation.

 

Laughter

 

Mr J. Banda: Madam Speaker, we need a very serious ruling, so that they can first be giving money before pouring powder.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Madam Speaker, the ruling has already been made. When we are in the House, there is no powdering. However, we take it that if it happens outside, let those hon. Ministers give you something, so that the tradition is completed.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I sympathise with those who have suffered the indignity of being cousins of certain people.

 

Laughter

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mpongwe is raising some fundamental issues here and it gives us an opportunity to clarify some issues. First of all, let me assure the hon. Member that this New Dawn Administration considers this road; the Mpongwe/Luansobe Road, as an important road with economic value because it is a farming area and I know the area has an element of tourism that can be developed.

 

Madam, however, his specific question was why we do not utilise the money from the toll gate to repair the road. First of all, money raised from toll gates is put into the consolidated fund called Control 99, which is part of the revenues that are raised in the country. You cannot isolate funds coming from a particular gate.

 

Madam Speaker, I had that question the other day with respect to the Katuba gate. All the money raised from these toll gates, together with other revenues, whether it is fees and fines and taxes and so on, are all part of the consolidated fund. However, that is not satisfactory to him because what he as a Member of Parliament and the people of Mpongwe want is to have a motorable road.

 

Madam Speaker, all I can say is that we should continue to engage. There are some funds, just over K3 million, that have been allocated to carry out porthole maintenance on that particular road. However, ultimately, that road needs to be reconstructed into a bituminous road. I know that there is a tendency to re-scoop to gravel road, but knowing that area as much as I do, I think ultimately, we need to consider upgrading it to bituminous road. So, in his capacity as hon. Member of Parliament, the hon. Member should continue to engage with us so that going forward we can see at what stage we can factor it in.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: On point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of procedure.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: There is no point of procedure. There is just a point of order on breach of procedure.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. The good people of Lumezi are incensed, in the sense that from the time that we have had this Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) era, we put on our masks and at times, many people have committed crimes while covering their faces with these masks. Today, we have seen something that is very unusual. It is very difficult to identify who an hon. Member of Parliament is because if you look at the hon. Member for Petauke, we do not know if it is him or not.

 

Madam Speaker, through your guidance, I think ask those who are not visible enough to excuse us so that we do not entertain strangers in this House.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I think you heard from my ruling when I said they should clean up. I think that order was given to the House.

 

Mr Ngowani: Madam Speaker, this road is already bituminous but in a bad state. When are we expecting a permanent solution for this road?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I have asked the hon. Member for Mpongwe to engage with me. He is asking when we expect to see this. That question tempts us to go in the monologue of why we do not have funds, but that will not satisfy him. The key issue is that we engage, so that going forward, we can see at what stage that can be factored into the plans.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr J. Chibuye: Madam Speaker, indeed, as the hon. Member for Mpongwe has stated, this road is very important economically. It is not only important but also a bypass road that enables heavy duty trucks to pass into Luanshya, Masaiti and Mpongwe and join the Great North Road.

 

Madam Speaker, as much as we appreciate the issue of resources, the road is not very bad per se, in all the stretches. Therefore, are there no plans to ensure that certain portions where there are ditches, especially those near the toll gates, are at least covered temporarily so that the flow of traffic is not disturbed? There are portions which are actually bad and patching them up would not be a very bad idea. Is the hon. Minister not thinking of doing that?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to conduct what it is calling holding maintenance works for this particular road using the Force Account, that is in-house funds. We have estimated the porthole patching activity to cost about K3,135,033.16. The commencement of the porthole patching activity is expected to start, especially at the end of the rainy season, when funds are made available. It is our responsibility to make funds available. This is not too high an amount. I am sure there is something that we can do about it.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

_______

 

MOTIONS

 

MOTION OF THANKS

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for the opportunity given to the people of Sikongo to add a voice to the debate on Motion on the Floor of the House, on His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema’s Speech on the Application of National Values and Principles.

 

Madam Speaker, I stand here as a very happy hon. Member of Parliament. At the end of the speech by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, I almost jumped and started dancing. This is because when you listen to what the President was saying, the issues that he was raising really gave me hope that, indeed, this country is in safe hands. We have a President who truly loves this country and would love to see it move to greater heights.

 

Madam Speaker, the values which he inculcated, which include love, unity, integrity and accountability among others, are issues that each and every one of us in this House and, indeed, across this country must take seriously if this country is to get back to what it used to be; a beacon of peace and tranquillity.

 

Madam Speaker, we all remember what His Excellency the President went through under the Patriotic Front (PF) regime. So, to hear him extend an olive branch to the hon. Members of the PF regime shows maturity and by our President in as far as leading this country is concerned. If it were for other people, we would have heard statements like “I am going to fall on you like a tonne of bricks”. Those were the statements that we were hearing. However, the President’s tone was all embracing. I think that is what we need to see in this country. So, in our quest to reunite our country which was destroyed under the PF regime, love should, indeed, be our cornerstone as Zambians. This is something that we should not even be debating upon.

 

Madam Speaker, I feel very sad when I see hon. Colleagues on that side not showing remorse for the damage that they did to this country. My appeal to them in the interest of love, peace and unity which our President is preaching, please, can you kindly show remorse so that this country can quickly move on and we get united as One Zambia, One Nation.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank the President once more. You have seen how he has handled the funeral of our late former President, Rupiah Banda (RB). I think this is the kind of leadership that we want to see. I hope each and every one of us will not leave this important task to him alone. Can we stand with him as we unite our country?

 

Madam, when our founding father passed on, it was unfortunate that President Hakainde Hichilema (HH) had to follow the proceedings on a television set. That was shameful. However, have you seen what he has done? He has extended an olive branch to his colleague, the former President, Edgar Chagwa Lungu (ECL). Can we come so that we can mourn our brother, our President, together? That is how it should be. I hope we are all seeing and learning from what the President is doing. Sometimes, let us separate politics. There are certain issues where we should not bring politics because at the end of the day, we are all Zambians.

 

Madam Speaker, finally, allow me to mention that this country has been united. Our founding President, Kenneth Kaunda, tried by all means to bring us together. There are so many intermarriages in this country. You have people like Phiri Simushi, Kampyongo Nyambe, Hamaundu Biemba. That is what we are and let us not depart from that. So, I appeal to my hon. Colleagues on the right that time has come for you to shed that skin of hate and start to embrace love. We are all One Zambia, One Nation. We have only one responsibility: to make sure that our country develops for the betterment of each and every one of us.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to end by requesting that maybe, at some point, the National Assembly should arrange some sort of a meeting where we can interact as hon. Members of Parliament from the Patriotic Front (PF), the United Party for National Development (UPND) and all the others so that we come together and just talk as people and not as political parties, so that we  can demonstrate to the people out there that, indeed, much as we belong to different political parties, at the end of the day, we are one people.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, thank you. The President came to address this House in order to fulfil our constitutional requirement, that is, Article 8, which mandates the Head of State to address the august House on the progress made on the application of national values and principles.

 

Madam Speaker, I have the President’s Speech in my hands. I have to mention that I have only found eight points which relate to the President addressing the House on specific requirements of the Constitution, that is, Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles. According to what I have seen, he avoided most of these things because they were implemented by the previous Government, ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: ... and I will demonstrate. The previous Government established the Ministry of Religious Affairs and National Guidance, specifically to take care of this Article in the Constitution, and because it has been relegated, he could not mention it. Not only that, but also, the previous Government established a National Day of Prayer to take care of our values and principles as a Christian Nation, but he avoided to mention it. The national house of prayer is under construction as we speak, to address this Article 8. We only hope that this New Dawn Government will complete that important national house of prayer. That is the house where all of us, regardless of our religious affiliation, should converge to enhance our national values and principles.

 

Madam Speaker, coming to corruption, I have to state that we who are seated here do not condone corruption and we will never condone it.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: It is a cancer which can destroy our country if left unchecked. I have always known that, hon. Minister Youth, Sport and Arts. That is the reason many of these hon. Members you see probably have never been involved in corruption and will never be involved in corruption. The President has the power now. He has the mantle to ensure that those who were corrupt in the Patriotic Front (PF) are arrested and taken to the courts of law. That is what a Head of State should be doing. We do not want to hear a call that “those who have stolen, can you bring the money.” Honestly, Zambians, can you call a thief to return what he has stolen? Are you sure?

 

For us, it is clear that what this New Dawn Government thought is not what it has found. We will conclude, Zambians, that the corruption song it was singing was a mere gimmick to get to power. If you do not arrest people who you perceive to be corrupt stop singing the song of corruption. It means you have failed to find corruption. This we want to state; if you have found corrupt people, arrest them, take them to court and let the courts of law pronounce them guilty unlike yourselves doing it. I think those are national values and principles that we should follow as a country.

 

Madam Speaker, Zambians, how long are you going to allow the New Dawn Government to be singing “corruption,” yet it has not taken any one to court? It has not convicted a single person. That is very unfair. Hon. Colleagues who are at the Backbench, you will be judged harshly by the decisions that are made by the Frontbench, but you are not involved. As the PF hon. Members seated here, we do not want to be treated that way.

 

Madam Speaker, Article 8 of the Constitution talks about good governance, equality and non-discrimination. I want to tell President Hakainde Hichilema that if there are things that he detested while in the Opposition, it was discrimination based on ethnicity and regionalism. Unfortunately, I want to tell him that he is falling into the same trap and we will not stop reminding him.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I want to demonstrate. Look at how he is making appointments.

 

Hon. Government Members: Which ones?

 

Mr Mung’andu: You know. Zambians, look at who is heading –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member! Just ignore the interjections. Concentrate on your debate.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Clearly, people are being victimised in these offices based on where they come from.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: President Hakainde Hichilema preached that since he was mistreated while in detention, he would ensure that people are given bail within twenty-four hours. However, we have seen people being detained for ten days without being charged.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mung’andu: President Hakainde Hichilema, we know you can do better. So, please do not follow those who were injured. We know you are a good man. Those are the people who will destroy you. People will not see the difference if the wrongs which we were seeing in the (PF) are the same things that you are implementing. What change would the people of Zambia have voted for?

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, Zambians, do not listen to the eloquent speeches that President Hakainde Hichilema gives, can you pay attention to his actions. We are going to pay attention to President Hakainde Hichilema’s actions and not what he says because he has, so far, proved that what he says is the opposite of what he does.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam, we will provide effective checks and balances, and not what you did. Constitutionalism–

 

The First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member! There is a point of order.

 

It is cancelled, you can continue.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, with regards to constitutionalism, we want to see that the Constitution which the President wants to amend does not include those Articles that he rejected.

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according the people of Mwandi a chance to debate the Speech by the President. First of all, let me begin by saying that I have heard people saying that we have no vision. I will say this: there once was a man who always stood by his window and watched how dirty the windows of the neighbours were. One day, he decided to clean his windows and he realised that all this time he was saying that the neighbour’s windows were dirty, it was actually his window that had been dirty all that time. So, I advise all those who have been saying that we do not have a vision to clean their glasses. If they do that, they will be able to see this vision so clearly because it is clear out there.

 

Madam Speaker, in his address, the President also made mention that in fighting cadreism, if one commits a crime, then they are alone. Let me add that today, if you do not see the vision of the New Dawn Government, you are alone. The many Zambians out there are able to see this vision so clearly because they cleaned their windows,

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member!

 

Please look at me. Stop looking at the people on my left. You may continue.

 

Ms Sefulo: Much obliged, Madam Speaker. In his address, the President spoke about teenage pregnancies. If you look at Zambia today, and the constituency that I represent in particular, you will see that there were many teenage pregnancies. Why was this so? It was because people had no access to schools. As a result, children were getting pregnant as early as twelve years old. Today, although some people are saying they cannot see the vision, the New Dawn Government has introduced free education to fight teenage pregnancies that are there in the constituencies including the constituency of the acting Leader of the Opposition.

 

Madam Speaker, this problem that we have is countrywide. Today, you come to this House and say we have no vision and that it is just a speech. Where does it start from? As the New Dawn Government, we do not just talk about speeches. The hon. Member who was debating actually described it as an eloquent speech, and I agree, our speeches are eloquent.

 

Madam Speaker, it does not end there. Our words are our bonds. We do what we say. We said we will end cadreism and it has come to an end. We are very different. We spoke about how we are going to bring free education, and today, we have free education. We also spoke about how we are going to fight corruption. As I stand here today, there is a reduction in corruption. So, we are actually walking the talk. In his speech, the President also said that apart from looking at teenage pregnancies, perpetrators of child marriages were going to be arrested, which is a very good step in the right direction.

 

Madam, for the first time, we have a President who is also very interested in a girl child. Every girl child out there should be very proud of this President. This is what we mean when we say we want a vision. What do I mean by this? We are talking about improvement in the education sector. We are also talking about improvement in the health sector. So, those who say that they are just speeches, we have already spoken about the recruitment of 11,000 health workers. Just yesterday, the hon. Minister of Health was actually giving a roadmap of how we are going to employ those 11,200 health workers and that is what we call having a vision.

 

Madam Speaker, for the first time, Zambians are able to see that we have a President who does not just speak but he is a man of action. We are also uplifting the values of every Zambian. The President came here to speak about value addition. As people of Mwandi, we are looking forward to making sure that in these five years of the New Dawn Government, when I walk into Shoprite, I will find products that are being locally produced from Mwandi available in these shops. What vision do you want? This is the vision that we are talking about; the vision of empowering Zambians to make sure that Zambians out there are creating wealth. So, we want to build a healthy, wealthy and educated nation.

 

Madam Speaker, we ask ourselves where this President has been. In six months, we have seen so much improvement in Zambia. There is a lot of improvement. Everywhere you go people are free. It is like we have gotten the second independence. This President means well as can be seen from his speeches. I think this time around, we have a President who is able to give encouraging speeches. When he delivers a speech, we do not even want him to stop. Even when he was saying in conclusion, the hon. Members on your left were saying: “continue we can even sleep here.” I am surprised that today, they are saying it was just an eloquent speech that had nothing. They were willing to sleep here and listen to him because of how much inspiration he brings.

 

Madam Speaker, the President’s Speech is very inspiring. Even as I am saying this, I can see the acting Leader of Opposition still agreeing with me that this speech was very inspiring.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I know that the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House would also not want me to conclude because of how much he is enjoying how I am giving out what the speech for the President meant and the vision that is there. The Acting Whip also does not want me to stop.

 

Madam Speaker, the President also spoke about abuse of information. On this one, I am going to be very candid. Abuse and cyber bullying out there is very shocking. When we talk about the use of information, sometimes the misuse of information comes from hon. Members of Parliament from here. They go out there on social media to mislead the nation. So, what they do not want in this speech is someone who stands up against the wrongs that they are doing. With that being said, this speech was very inspiring and as Zambians, we have cleaned our glasses. We will see the vision and together with the President and the New Dawn Government we will move with them. For those who have not cleaned their glasses yet, we are here to sanitise so that you can see what the vision entails.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity on behalf of the people of Chama North to debate on the President’s Speech, which was delivered last Friday, under the theme ‘Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles’. My sister was debating the issue of vision. I think that speech did not center on vision, but on the Progress Made in the Application of National Values and Principles.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, …

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, you are supposed to debate the speech and not correcting hon. Members of Parliament. In their capacity, hon. Members of Parliament are going to react to whatever will be said concerning the ministry. So, just concentrate on the speech.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I am guided.

 

Madam, if we dissect the President’s Speech, we will see that it is talking more about what the New Dawn Government intends to do and not what it has really done in the six months it has been in office.

 

Madam Speaker, let me now talk about the fight against corruption. I am a strong believer in the genuine fight against corruption and not fighting corruption based on retribution or persecution.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, we have created a very wrong impression in this country that all former Presidents stole public resources. This has actually damaged, …

 

Ms Kasune: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Ms Kasune: Madam Speaker, I would like to say sorry to the hon. Member of Parliament for disturbing his debate. However, I stand on the ruling that you made earlier that those hon. Members who were looking like Makishis or Nyaus – I do not know how to say it in English or are they carnivals?– were asked to go outside and clean up, and not the glasses the hon. Member was talking about, so that they can see the vision of His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, but, indeed, because of the unpresentable presentation they are looking into. The hon. Member decided to actually go against your ruling by breaking not only your ruling, but indeed, this House being an honourable House and also the decorum of the House. Is the hon. Member, therefore, in order to still be in the House while looking like a Makishi or a Nyau, when you had guided? I need your serious ruling.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Indeed, a ruling was made that those who had powder should go out and clean themselves up, but the hon. Member for Chama North decided to stay on. So, hon. Member, as soon as you finish your debate, please, go and clean yourself up.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I am well guided.

 

Madam Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was talking about the fight against corruption. I was saying that if we are not careful as a nation, we are sowing a very bad seed that politicians steal public resources.

 

Madam, in 1991, Dr Kaunda was accused of stealing K6 billion, which was not true. The Government brought Scotland Yard and spent millions and millions of dollars. Later on, Mr Chiluba was acquitted. After Fredrick Titus Jacob Chiluba (FTJ), it was our former President, the one we are burying on Friday, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, may his soul rest in peace. He was taken to court, but again, nothing came out from that. However, we have continued and already, there are calls to remove the immunity of former President Edgar Chagwa Lungu.

 

As a nation, we want action. As a country and as long as we continue to be reactive, the fight against corruption shall never be won. We need to build strong institutions of good governance. You can change Governments and President hundred times, the issue of corruption will not go away from us. I expected the President’s Speech to have tabulated what measures the Government was going to take to ensure that we strengthen the law enforcement agencies such as the Zambia Police Service, Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), but we are not seeing that at all. So, it is my prayer that this Government should put up strong institutions of good governance so that they can be able to fight corruption.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mtayachalo:  Madam Speaker, my hon. Colleague spoke about discrimination. Indeed, it is true that the New Dawn Government is departing from its promises.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I just got a message a few minutes ago that ten workers at ZESCO Limited were retired last Friday. These people are alleging that they were laid off based on ethnic grounds. So, it is important that we promote the spirit of One Zambia, One Nation. Injustices committed under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government is an injustice. An injustice committed under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is an injustice and an injustice committed under the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government remains an injustice. So, there are many contradictions. Senior managers at the Road Development Agency (RDA) were retired and removed from the payroll, they were not even paid their benefits.

 

Mr Munsanje: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: So, these retirements in national interest have the potential to undermine the spirit of One Zambia, One Nation.

 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of the Constitution, it is shameful that fifty-seven years after independence, …

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Munsanje: Madam Speaker, I rise pursuant to Standing Order 65, which indicates that an hon. Member must debate based on information that is factual and verifiable.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member who is speaking is alleging ethnic dismissals at ZESCO Limited without any evidence. Is he in order to be alleging that the New Deal Government is getting rid of staff on ethnic grounds, which is a matter of serious division and can lead to war in the country?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, do you have evidence that you can lay on the Table that some people were retired or laid off in the respective places that you have mentioned? You mentioned ZESCO Limited and another place. Do you have something that you can lay on the Table?

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I have a list in my phone. I do not know whether you can allow me to read out the names or maybe, –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mtayachalo: I have a list here of people who were retired last Friday, and these retirements have continued almost on a weekly basis. So far, more than fifty workers have been retired from ZESCO Limited without legitimate grounds. If you allow me, Madam Speaker, I can read the names of those people who were retired last Friday.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

No, hon. Member! We shall not rely on social media. Sometimes, social media is misleading. We wanted something that you could lay on the Table. So, if you have no evidence, please, try to avoid going in that direction because you are going to mislead the Zambians who are listening to this programme. So, you are out of order because you do not have any evidence to lay on the Table, so that we can even tell the people of Zambia that many people were laid off on Friday.

 

You may continue.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, thank you for that guidance. I will print this document then avail it to the House for the interest of the nation.

 

Mr Mung’andu: It is coming.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, on the issue of the Constitution, it is shameful that fifty-seven years after independence we are still talking about a Constitution.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The way you have used the word ‘shameful’ is unparliamentary. Could you replace it with another word.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Which word, Madam Speaker?

 

Hon. Members: Shameful!

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I will say that it is sad that fifty-seven years after independence, we are still talking about a Constitution. This country has had about six constitutional review commissions and this Government has spent colossal sums of money. We hope that the Constitution which is going to be formulated by the New Dawn Government is going to be all inclusive. I think it is important that this process must be people driven to yield a Constitution which will stand the test of time. I want to appeal to Zambians, that they must take keen interest in the Constitutional making process because in the past we have given politicians blank cheques to do what they want. As result, this country has been denied the much needed Constitution which can stand the test of time. It is our prayer that the New Dawn Government will able to enact a people driven Constitution which can stand the test of time.

 

Madam Speaker, it is very sad that while most countries in the Southern African region have managed to enact good constitutions through consensus building processes, we have just continued talking about the Constitution. If you go to Namibia or South Africa and several other countries in the region who got their independence after us, you will find that they have put in place good Constitutions. I hope that this process shall be driven by the people of Zambia and not us, politicians. Politicians have driven this process from 1972 and the people of Zambia have not been given a Constitution which they desire.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, just a reminder that the microphones that we have are very sensitive. If you speak very closely into the microphones, the volume will so be loud. So, let us try to leave some distance between ourselves and the microphone.

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, you are very kind. Thank you for giving the good people of Lumezi an opportunity to give a vote of thanks on the President’s Address delivered to this House last week on Friday.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order hon. Member!

 

The hon. Member for Chama South can now leave the House.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Sorry, Chama North and not Chama South. He may leave to go and clean up.

 

Ms Kasune: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lumezi you may continue with your debate.

 

Mr Mtayachalo and Mr Mung’andu left the Assembly Chamber.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, from the outset, permit the good people of Lumezi to mention that the President’s Address was well delivered. It had good intent. Permit me to take this august House to page 29 of the President’s Speech where he said:

 

“We must all declare war against corruption.”

 

Madam Speaker, it is sickening that while the President means well for this country, –

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Munir Zulu: I know he means well, – the arrogance of his lieutenants does not impress the good people of Lumezi.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, permit me to go a little further. On behalf of the good people of Lumezi, ...

 

Mr Haimbe: On as point of order, Madam Speaker

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, thank you for recognising me and allowing me to raise this point of order. It is in relation to the decorum of this House and the use of unparliamentary language, which is not permitted under our Standing Orders amongst them Standing Order No. 65. The use of the words ‘sickening’ and ‘arrogance’ in reference to the so called lieutenants of the President is unparliamentary. I seek your ruling on that matter.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member was definitely out of order because the two words used are unparliamentary. So, for that, I ask the hon. Member for Lumezi to withdraw those two words; ‘sickening’ and ‘arrogance’ and replace them with other words.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, permit me to mention that English is not my mother tongue.

 

Hon. Member: Hammer, hammer!

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the words ‘sickening’ and ‘arrogance’. Permit me to say most of his Cabinet Ministers have been consumed with authority. They have forgotten to engage the people who gave them the mandate.

 

Madam Speaker, if we go to page 29 of the President’s Speech, you will note that the President was very clear. Maybe the word clear does not suffice. He was explicit in saying:

 

“We must all declare war against corruption.”

 

Madam Speaker, permit me first of all to declare that I have never served in the Government before but I have had the privilege of interacting with many Patriotic Front (PF) members that were in the previous Government. I am not that Independent Member of Parliament who will say I served as this or that. I enjoyed a personal relationship with many of these hon. Members on your left.

 

Madam Speaker, if we go through, we are building empirical evidence, which we shall bring on the Floor of the House, on the dealings of Kapisika Group of Companies and directors at the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Art on the issues to do with the fuel tankers.

 

Madam Speaker, I am receiving privileged information based on my previous relations with the people on the left and we are going to lay evidence on the Floor of the House as to how your hon. Members of Parliament who are chairing certain sensitive Committees are implicated. We will show why, even as late as yesterday, which is less than twenty-four hours ago, one of your Committees that is heavily publicised or cherished by the citizens of this country had problems interrogating members of Kapisika Group of Companies. It is because we have reduced a certain Committee that attracts public attention based on corruption. The President said we must all declare war against corruption, but here we are, seated and pretending to be listening to the President’s Address and we want to dramatise the President’s Speech.

 

Madam, I am a Member of the African Parliamentarians Network Against Corruption (APNAC), where we perform an oversight role in the fight against corruption. However, a certain Committee refers to us as “small boys” who are being malicious hence it ignoring the President’s Speech. When the President was addressing us here, his speech took me back to 1991 because he preached love. Lucky Dube did a song titled “together as one”.

 

Hon. Member: Hammer, honourable.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, beyond that, the President took back to the days of Bob Marley when he did his song “three little birds, everything is going to be alright”.

 

Madam Speaker, the President comes here to address us knowing that he is addressing the people he has entrusted to unite the country. The President preached love. It is quite sad that you cannot see love and hate, but you can feel it. These are feeling and so, they are not visible to the naked eye.

 

Madam Speaker, very soon, the good people of Lumezi will bring to this House the names of the people involved in the Kafulafuta Dam scandal. To help the President, the good people of Lumezi will bring to the Floor of this House, based on our relationship with those who were privileged to govern previously, information on the fuel tankers at the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts in which directors and hon. Members are involved and involved in interrogating citizens on the basis of them chairing certain Committees.

 

Hon. Member: Hammer!

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the good people of Lumezi support the President’s submissions and the guidance he gave. The good people of Lumezi are well aware that previous Republican Heads of States have come to this House to discourage alcohol abuse. Former President Lungu spoke about it. The late President Banda who shall be interred on Friday spoke about it. Unfortunately, no Head of State has provided solutions to the young people on what should be done in the absence of alcohol.

 

Madam Speaker, the good people of Lumezi do believe in what Prof Lumumba said, which is that corruption has killed more people in Africa than civil wars have.

 

Madam Speaker, the first thing we should do in this House is that we must put our act together and love should start from here. There is more hate in here. The President said that we need to have a consensus on constitutional amendments. In the absence of love here, the President’s Address is not going to yield any positive results. Our hon. Colleagues on the right who are privileged to be where they are should bear in mind that some of us are praying that maybe, Hon. Sitwala and his team from the backbench can be appointed into Cabinet so that we work together.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Nkulukusa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to also add my voice to the debate on the President’s Address to Parliament on the Progress Made in the Application of the National Values and Principles.

 

Madam Speaker, I start by talking about not only the updates that the President gave, but also how he lifted the spirit of the nation in what he talked about as he addressed the nation. He gave hope to many of us. He gave us hope that there are still people and leaders who can lead this nation to greater heights. In the six months that the President has taken the realm, he has done a total 360 degree rebranding of who we are as a people and a country.

 

Madam Speaker, I do not want to talk about the updates that he gave. I want to talk about the inspirations and the gains that we all got from his presentation. The first thing I want to look at is when he talked about the power of unity beyond nepotism, regionalism and tribalism.

 

Madam Speaker, this power has potential to unite this country and make it truly One Zambia, One Nation that we all aspire and look forward to. This is the country we all yearned for. This is the country we all looked forward to where we live as brothers and sisters. This power of unity and diversity brings together the synergy that can build our country not only socially, but also enhance the economic fortunes.

 

Madam Speaker, the President also emphasised the principle of hard work. Hard work is the key to the economic emancipation of any country. The principle of hard work is what will conquer corruption. In the spirit of fighting corruption, the President is appealing to the conscience of humanity. He is saying that not only laws are going to fight corruption, but the conscience of us as human beings because human beings have a tendency of going around the law and quickly running saying, have I been arrested or am I guilty of the law? Yes, the law is important, but I think if we appeal to our consciences, then the fight against corruption will be complete.

 

Madam Speaker, hard work is what the President emphasised and continued to emphasise because he has tasted it and he wants the country to do the same and see what hard work can bring to the entire country.

 

Madam Speaker, the other thing I want to talk about is leadership which is based on integrity, passion, love and, of course, ethics that move the country forward. The President emphasised the issue of love, and I agree with him. Sometimes, some of us tend to wonder whether we truly mean what we say when we talk about love. The President’s wish is that we must walk the talk. We must be people who, when we talk of love, display love. We must be people who preach what we say and because of that, the inspiration that goes to the youths more especially, who brought in this New Dawn Government is so massive because then they can see light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Madam Speaker, there was almost desperation in the way the country was moving more especially from the youthful side. The youths could not see their future and imagine how their children would live in a country that is engulfed with divisions, a lot of regionalism and nepotism, but now they can have hope that the future looks bright.

 

Madam Speaker, indeed, as the saying goes, its darkest before dawn. This is exactly what we have seen and what the President came and demonstrated.

 

Madam Speaker, finally, the President talked about morality and ethics more especially when it comes to alcohol and social media abuse as well as child marriages and teenage pregnancies. He implored all of us leaders to lead by example and also that we must be the salt and the torch in our society. That way, we will live exemplary lives and we will be known and seen to be doing the right things. Then the children and those whom we lead will also walk the talk.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, the President’s, Speech, indeed, gave hope to many. Not only did he outline some of the successes that included free education, the fight against corruption and some of the money that was recovered when fight against corruption was implemented, which included the formation of the fast track court and so many things that the President talked about. However, beyond this, the President gave hope to the nation. He gave a lease of life that yes, indeed, with focused attention, determination and love for the country, we can all come together and put a leader who has the love of the country at heart. That is what he came to demonstrate, and because of that, I support the Motion that we adopt the President’s Speech.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, it has been a long day. The easterners do not go down without a fight.

 

Madam Speaker, that said, let me turn to my contribution on the President’s visit to this House and his speech entitled “Progress Made in the Application of The National Values and Principles.” The key operative word there is ‘progress made’.

 

Madam, just a few housekeeping measures to that Friday, that important day in the history of Zambia because it is constitutional. Let me highlight a few housekeeping measures from His Excellency the President Mr Hakainde Hichilema’s previous visit to this House. I noticed that the President looked elegant, as usual, in a suit and a tie and well kempt, no problem there. However, I also noted that the President looked slimmer.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, I think we are supposed to discuss the report or the speech and not the person who delivered it. We are supposed to look at the speech, which was delivered. Can you switch to that?

 

Mr Sampa: Much obliged, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam, I was going to end by saying I wish that could be a question and answer (Q&A) session so that it can be more engaging. Furthermore, I wish Parliament did not have to adjourn early its sittings early.

 

Madam Speaker, regarding values and principles, the President talked about naming and shaming and I am a fan of the phrase ‘name and shame. It is key in the United Kingdom (UK). If you cannot do anything to anyone who is doing something wrong to society, the minimum you can do, is to name him/her. So, I agree with the President on that, but also add that the naming and shaming should go back all the way to 1964. Since then, who amongst us Zambians has done something wrong to the people of Zambia and more so to the taxpayers money? I would have wanted to name and shame many people, but that is not my role. This exercise should be sincere, let us name and shame. Who abused public resources in the United National Independence Party (UNIP) time? Who abused public resources in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) time? Who abused public resources in the Patriotic Front (PF) time?

 

Hon. Government Member: You are one of them.

 

Mr Sampa: I am very clear that I am not one of them.

 

Madam, in the six months of the New Dawn Administration, odd as it may be, who has already abused public resources? Let us name and shame them. This is a fight for Zambia. It is not a fight for President HH (Hakainde Hichilema) or a fight for the United Party for National Development (UPND), the MMD, the PF or UNIP. This is a fight for anyone interested in a sustainable Zambia. The key operative word there is sustainable. The world sustainable is defined in the Oxford dictionary as anyone who wants to leave a better Zambia for his/her future, not even his/her children or great grandchildren, to find a better Zambia.

 

Madam, the President talked about tantameni. That is a term that was close to my heart and I know where it comes from. There was a by-election in the Northern Province, Lubansenshi to be specific, and Hon. Mucheleka contested that election. There was a candidate who was saying to people: tantameni and giving them money, but when he ran out of money, that was it. That is a good example and that is the culture that is there anywhere.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, I do not think it is right to bring in somebody who is not here, who cannot even defend himself over what you are saying. Let us try to avoid bringing people into our debate.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the statement about Hon. Mucheleka. Let me just say I relate closely to the term tantameni because coming from the corporate world, that is what I found in politics in Zambia. Everybody lines up to ask for gifts and free money, but this is a culture that should not be blamed on any one. It has been there since 1964. The same people who were pursuing it under UNIP, pushed it into the MMD. They were in markets and bus stops and just changed their regalia to blue. When the PF took over, the same youths changed their regalia to green and continued demanding for money from markets, bus stops, from any hon. Minister and from any hon. Member of Parliament.

 

Madam, the good news to the hon. Ministers on the right is that the same people have turned their colour of regalia from green to red. They are there asking for free money against the Government’s policy. We can bury our heads in the sand and say it is not happening, but it is. It is a national problem that we need to cure. A certain Mayor of Lusaka tried and he was persecuted and abducted twice for that. It is a serious fight and the Government will not fight it just by talking. Doing this is not for your own good, but for the good of the country because then, the councils cannot operate. No money is brought up, it is all kept by the commanders. So, that topic of tantameni should come to an end for the sake of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, last but not the least, is the issue of freedom of expression, which the President talked about. If it did not exist in the other Government, by all means, it is time for it to be present in this Government. This idea of saying the other Government was also doing it, and so, we are also doing the same, is not good. The other Government was sending hon. Members of Parliament out of Parliament. We are also sending them out.

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

 

Mr Sampa: So, is this Government going to be a copycat of what the other Government did?

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, can you stick to the speech please.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, that is what I am doing. If this Government is going to be a copycat of what the other Government did, it means it is copycatting its election. The other Government lost in 2021, it means this Government will also lose because it is copycatting everything. So, the point is, whatever was done wrongly, this Government should endeavour to do right.

 

Madam, the people of Zambia have learnt. If you stop them from protesting here, they will use other platforms. Other Governments have learnt that you never stop anyone from speaking out. There is even social media. What the Government should do now is to allow freedom of expression even on social media. If someone wants to insult me, allow him/her to do it with pleasure because you cannot stop freedom of expression. Whatever you do to stop it, people will still find a way to express themselves.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

_______

 

The House adjourned at 1820 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 17^th March, 2022.

 

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