Thursday, 3^rd March, 2022

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

MATTERS OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

 

MR CHITOTELA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR PAMBASHE, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL CO-OPERATION, MR KAKUBO ON THE RUSSIA-UKRAINE CONFLICT

 

Mr Chitotela: On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

 

Madam Speaker, I rise on a matter of urgent public importance pursuant to Standing Order 34, read together with Standing Order 35, and in reference to the Republican Constitution.

 

Madam Speaker, the Republican Constitution is very instructive to the Executive. If there should be a change to an international treaty, it must be brought to this House for approval. Similarly, should we want to withdraw from anything, we need to have that issue laid on the Table of this House and for Parliament to approve it.

 

Madam Speaker, immediately after independence, Dr Kenneth David Buchizya Kaunda entered into a treaty with the Non-Aligned Movement and Zambia has been a member since then. Therefore, whenever there is controversy, Zambia always takes a non-aligned position.

 

Madam Speaker, yesterday, Zambia woke up to a rude shock as the position that Dr David Kaunda had taken of “Friend east, friend west, friend south and friend north” had been changed on the matter relating to the Ukraine and Russia conflict, in line with the position taken by the United States of America (USA). This is not to say we are underplaying the conflict in Ukraine, but as a State, we have a position that we entered into and signed up for under the Non-Aligned Movement.

 

Madam Speaker, yesterday, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation did instruct our Permanent Representative at the United Nations (UN) in New York City to take a position against an established standard and practice by the Zambian people. Bearing in mind that the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation has a depository authority given to him by the Zambian people, any decision of that magnitude must be done with the full consultation of the Zambian people.

 

Madam Speaker, when the Government of Zambia wanted to withdraw from the International Court of Justice, and I remember I was in the Executive then, we took a position to say that we could not do it because it was not about the Executive. We needed to go and consult the Zambian people. We did consult and the Zambian people said no, we want to continue with the International Court of Justice. That is the position we took as an Executive. So, why should we now have a shift from the established standard made by the Executive without the full consultation of the Zambian people and without bringing that matter to Parliament?

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister responsible for international relations in order to have instructed our Permanent Representative at the UN to vote in the manner we voted, changing the position of Zambia without coming to this august House to explain and seek the approval of the Zambian people?

 

I seek your serious indulgence, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: Just to assist me, in what form were those instructions?

 

Mr Chitotela: It was to take a position to vote for or against, when the position of Zambia has always been non-aligned.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, I am asking in what form were those instructions because I am not aware of such.

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, Zambia, yesterday took a position at the UN General Assembly voting for a position that –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chitotela: I am talking about the conflict between Russia and Ukraine, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Alright, hon. Member, if you can take a seat because I need to be clear on what is going to be decided upon. My question is: In what form were those instructions? You said that the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation instructed the Zambian representative to the United Nations (UN) to vote in a particular manner. I am not aware of that information. So, I just want you to assist me understand in what form the instructions that the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation gave to the UN representative were.

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, yesterday, in the morning, the UN called for a meeting for Member States to take a position on the Russia-Ukraine conflict and our Permanent Representative at the UN voted against Russia. That decision cannot be taken by the Permanent Representative at the UN without the approval of the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: So, we are making an assumption that the hon. Minister gave an instruction. I just want to be clear because I cannot make a decision on something that I am not clear on. Do you have anything that you want to lay on the Table?

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, if given time, I could print the decision of Zambia and I will lay it on the Table.

 

Hon. Government Members: No!

 

Mr Mundubile: I think it is important.

 

Mr Chitotela: Do not trivialise this issue. This is a position that we have taken as a country.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Why you have raised a point is that the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation did instruct – you can take your seat.

 

Mr Chitotela resumed his seat.

 

Madam Speaker: He did instruct the Zambian representative to the UN to vote in a particular manner. So, I was asking: In what form was that instruction given? Did the Zambian representative to the UN vote on his own on the Motion or he was instructed by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation? There is that possibility, but I do not know. So, we need to get some clarity.

 

Maybe you can raise this matter later when you gather enough information so that when I make a ruling, it will be grounded.

 

Mr Chitotela: I thank you, Madam Speaker. I will go and print that information, but we have to bear in mind that our Permanent Representative, who is an ambassador for Zambia, cannot commit a country to a shift in position without the approval of the hon. Minister responsible for international relations.

 

Madam Speaker: I understand that, but in view of what has recently happened, which I do not want to enter into, there could be a conflict of some sort somewhere. So, we will stand down that point of urgent public importance you have raised. You can bring it up later.

 

MR SAMPA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MATERO, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL CO-OPERATION, ON THE RUSSIA-UKRAINE CONFLICT

 

Mr Sampa: On a matter of urgent public importance.

 

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

 

Madam Speaker, whatever I say, I am quoting from www.news.unitednations.org. All the information is there.

 

Madam Speaker, there is evidence that a couple of years ago, the Speaker of Russia visited this Parliament and Zambia, in general, and there were a lot of programmes that Zambia entered into with Russia. There is permanent Russian representation in Zambia. There is a Russian embassy at Longacres and there is a Zambian embassy in Moscow. We have a lot of students in Moscow sponsored by both the Zambian and Russian governments.

 

Madam Speaker, this Matter of Urgent Public Importance is directed at the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation because the website that I have quoted of the United Nations (UN) is showing that as Zambia, we took a stance yesterday and backed Ukraine. There was a question to Her Honour the Vice-President on Friday morning on a similar matter and her response –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Matero, the matter that you are raising – Just take your seat.

 

Mr Sampa resumed his seat.

 

Madam Speaker: The matter that you are raising is similar to the one that has been raised by the hon. Member for Pambashe. So what is the difference between the point that you are raising and the one that the hon. Member for Pambashe has raised, which I have said should be stood down so that he brings the information to assist me in making a decision? So let us not repeat ourselves. We should make progress.

 

Mr Sampa: Much guided, Madam Speaker. However, he was talking about being non-aligned and I am concluding and talking about the risking of the lives of the 17 million Zambians. This is because this war is between the west and east. The west is backed by the United States of America and there is also backing for the east. We have taken a stance. Since we have gone on one side, all of us in Zambia are at risk, including Zambians in the Diaspora. The lives of our students both in the west and east are at stake. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to keep quiet when the lives of all of us have been put at risk?

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Is it the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security or hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation?

 

Mr Sampa: I beg your pardon, Madam Speaker. It is the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation. I guess I am so happy to see the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security here after a while and condolences to my brother.

 

Mr Mwiimbu showed assent.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I seek your guidance whether the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation is in order to put our lives in danger. There are 18 million Zambians and 1 million Zambian students in the western and eastern countries, including Russia, and their lives now are in danger. Should we start building bunkers in our homes now because we have been put at risk? I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: If I recall from your earlier comment, hon. Member for Matero, you are the one who was saying we should round-up some young men to go and fight in the war. So I do not know if you were not putting the lives of those young men at risk.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Anyway, my assessment from where I sit is that it looks like there is an issue that needs to be clarified by the Government. I direct that the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation should come to the House to give a ministerial statement on the matter, so that he can allay all the fears and concerns that have been brought here by the hon. Members on the left. Since the matter is urgent, on Wednesday next week, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation should render a ministerial statement on the Ukraine-Russia war and what the position of Zambia is on the war.

 

MS NYIRENDA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LUNDAZI, ON MR MTOLO, THE HON. MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, ON DISTRIBUTION OF FERTILISER IN LUNDAZI

 

Ms Nyirenda: On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

 

Ms Nyirenda: Thank you for giving the people of Lundazi a chance to raise this matter of urgent public importance. The matter I wish to raise is directed at the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

 

Madam Speaker, today is 3^rd March. The rains delayed to start in the Eastern Province and farmers planted their seeds. In Lundazi in particular, my farmers are sleeping at sheds waiting for the 14,604 bags of fertiliser, which have not been delivered up to this time. The farmers have put in an effort. They have already planted and the maize has started to tassel. Is the hon. Minister of Agriculture, comfortably seated in his chair, –

 

Mr J. Chibuye: He is getting fat.

 

Ms Nyirenda: Not getting fat, I am sorry – but is he in order to treat our people in Lundazi that way? That situation is not only in Lundazi, but also in Chasefu.

 

Madam Speaker, I need your serious indulgence.

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister of Agriculture is very passionate about the issues of agriculture and he is there. I am just wondering; would the hon. Minister want to say something now or he can render a ministerial statement later on Wednesday next week?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I actually have a ministerial statement which will address the problem of the hon. Member.

 

Madam Speaker: So, hon. Member for Lundazi, your issue is going to be attended to.

 

Ms Nyirenda: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE RAISED BY MR MULEBWA, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KAFULAFUTA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF GREEN ECONOMY AND ENVIRONMENT, ON THE BAN ON CHARCOAL SELLING

 

Mr Mulebwa: Madam Speaker, on a matter of urgent public importance.

 

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

 

Mr Mulebwa: Madam Speaker, my issue is of public importance, and it directed at the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment.

 

Madam Speaker, I was watching the news on Sunday evening at 1900 hours, and I saw a video clip of the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment stating that traditional rulers were being invited to deter people from dealing in charcoal. I got concerned about the statement because where I come from, we already had a problem with trucks of charcoal being confiscated by traditional rulers, and that was before the matter had been brought to Parliament. I was just imagining what the situation is going to be like now that there is somebody from Parliament announcing to the nation that traditional rulers should be involved in deterring people from dealing in charcoal.

 

Madam Speaker, two weeks ago, I asked a question in this honourable House on when the Munkulungwe Clinic was going to be electrified, the hon. Minister of Energy said that our area would be electrified in 2024. Now, I have problem here because on one hand, our area is not electrified but, on the other, the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment is saying people can never deal in charcoal. By the way, most of the charcoal in our area actually comes from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). So, the forests being destroyed are not Zambian, but Congolese. So, I wish to find out from the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment whether he has considered the fact that the people of Kafulafuta need an alternative source of power before he can ban dealing in charcoal.

 

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kafulafuta, I suggest that you put that question in writing to the hon. Minister of Green Economy and Environment because it does not meet the criteria stated in Standing Orders 134 and 135.

 

MR TWASA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KASENENGWA, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FISHERIES AND LIVESTOCK, MR CHIKOTE, ON FOOT AND MOUTH DISEASE IN THE EASTERN PROVINCE

 

Mr Twasa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order on whom?

 

Twasa: It is a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, make up your mind. Is it a point of order you want to raise or a matter of urgent public importance?

 

Mr Twasa: I would like to raise a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Proceed.

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, I am rising pursuant to Standing Order 134, which is on matters of urgent public importance.

 

Madam Speaker, we are aware that there are teams from the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock which have gone out in provinces which are affected by the Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD). In the Eastern Province, particularly in Kasenengwa, we have had a crisis. We have had teams from the concerned ministry going around the constituency and telling people to only present one cow per herd for vaccination and yet villagers are calling me and complaining that their cows are sick. The animals have sores on their hooves and mouths and some are even failing to stand, but those officers are saying they can only vaccinate one cow per herd.

 

Madam Speaker, this is a crisis that we have. What rationale is the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock using to only vaccinate one cow per herd? How effective is that vaccination and what percentage per population of cattle in the Eastern Province are they using? How many vaccines did they send to the Eastern Province? We are in a crisis and if we do not attend to it, our livestock will die. It will perish.

 

Madam, we have a serious crisis in Kasenengwa. I need the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock to address this issue. As I talk to you right now, the people of Kasenengwa are glued to their solar powered television sets to hear what the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock is going to say about this matter.

 

I seek your guidance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, as much as I appreciate the importance of the question that you have stated, it does not meet the criteria stated in Standing Orders 134 and 135. I suggest that you also put your question in writing to the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock. Maybe, let me just say this – we still have questions. I will say it later.

 

MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE RAISED BY MR MUNG’ANDU, HON. MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR CHAMA SOUTH, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND INTERNATIONAL CO-OPERATION, ON ZAMBIA’S POSITION ON THE RUSSIA-UKRAINE CONFLICT

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a matter of urgent public importance, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A matter of urgent public importance is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, you have guided well. I also wanted to bring out the status of Zambia as a non-aligned State since Independence. You have ruled that the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs and International Co-operation should come and issue a statement on the Floor of the House. We will wait for that, because the people of Chama South want to live long instead of receiving the barrel bombs that Russia is dropping. So, I will wait. 

 

Madam Speaker: Maybe, let me just say this by way of guidance.

 

From where I am seated, here, I observe what is happening on both the left and right. So, in terms of questions that hon. Members ask, there is always a reason why the questions are asked. So, when the hon. Ministers answer the questions, I suggest that they engage the hon. Member who asked e question because there is a reason for every question that is asked. If we just attempt to answer questions with the information that we have from our technocrats at the ministries, we are bound to either be mislead or to give wrong information.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: When we ask, we will know why the question has been asked. So, we can compare the answer that the technocrats give us with the concerns of the hon. Members so that when we come to the House to give our answers, the answers will be grounded, and no hon. Member or anybody will challenge us or suspect that we are not giving the correct answers. That way, we will be able to work properly.

 

Hon. Ministers, further, let me request and appeal to you to make yourselves accessible to the hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: They are complaining that they are not getting access to your offices. So, please, could you allow them access? That way, we will be able to work in harmony with each other, and you will make my work very easy.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: I am sure there are no more matters of urgent public importance. So, we can make progress.

 

_______

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

PERFORMANCE OF THE FARMER INPUT SUPPORT PROGRAMME, THE OVERVIEW OF THE 2021/2022 AGRICULTURE SEASON AND THE COUNTRY’S FOOD SECURITY SITUATION

 

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, thank you most sincerely for this opportunity allowing me to give a ministerial statement on the performance of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) during the 2021/2022 agricultural season and the current food security situation in the country. In this statement, I will address matters pertaining to the delayed onset of the rainy season, floods, armyworms attacks, implementation of FISP and the food security status.

 

Weather Condition in the 2021/2022 Agricultural Season

 

Madam Speaker, at the start of the 2021/2022 agricultural season, the country experienced prolonged dry spells and delayed onset of rains in most parts of the country for the period leading up to mid January 2022. The provinces mostly affected by the dry spells include the Eastern Province, the Northern Province and the North-Western Province.

 

Madam Speaker, hon. Members of the House may wish to note that the farmers who are practicing conservation agriculture had better crop establishment in areas that experienced dry spells. I wish to take this opportunity to encourage famers to adopt the climate-smart agricultural practices that the ministry is promoting.

 

Madam Speaker, in addition, as the agricultural season progressed, the country also experienced floods in Luapula Province, Muchinga Province, the Northern Province, the North-Western Province, the Southern Province, Lusaka Province, the Eastern Province and Copperbelt Province.

 

Madam Speaker, a total of 37,924 farmers’ fields measuring approximately 36,640 hectares were affected by floods in various parts of the country. Maize, sunflower, soya beans and cowpeas are some of the crops that have been affected.

 

Madam Speaker, in view of this unfortunate situation, I wish to assure the public that the Ministry of Agriculture is working closely with other wings of the Government, particularly the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), which is under the Office of the Vice-President, to provide relief in the affected areas.

 

Fall Armyworm Infestation

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to now turn my attention to the issue of the Fall Armyworms. During the 2021/2022 agricultural season, all the ten provinces and all the 116 districts across the country reported the infestation of the Fall Armyworm in the maize fields. At the end of January 2022, the Army Worm infestation had affected 269,273 households and a total 155,010 hectares of maize spread across all the provinces of Zambia.

 

Madam, in order to help control the spread of Armyworms, the Government procured and distributed 113,000 litres of chemicals to all the provinces at no cost to the farmers. In addition, the ministry procured and distributed personal protective equipment and sprayers to all the provinces. Further, our extension staff stepped-up surveillance activities and are providing technical advice to farmers. I wish to emphasise that the outbreak of the Armyworms continues to be a threat to household and national food security. I, therefore, wish to advise all the farmers to remain vigilant and report any outbreak of pests to their nearest extension officers.

 

Food Security Status

 

Madam Speaker, having highlighted the weather conditions and the Fall Armyworm infestation, it is important that I highlight the food security position of the country. Let me state from the outset that the ministry has only begun the process of undertaking a crop forecast survey which will determine the crop production for this year.

 

Madam, even before the crop forecasting results are known, I wish to state that as at 28^th February, 2022, the country had maize stocks of 1,723,477 metric tonnes. Of this amount, over 1.2 million metric tonnes is currently held by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA).

 

Madam Speaker, our current consumption is estimated at 120,000 metric tonnes of maize per month. Therefore, the available stock in the country is sufficient to cover a period of not less than fourteen months.

 

Madam Speaker, I will, sometime in the month of May, come and give the House an update on the food security position after we have completed undertaking the crop forecast survey.

 

Implementation of FISP

 

Madam Speaker, you may recall that on Tuesday, 19^th October, 2021, I issued a statement on the Floor of the House when I announced measures that the Government was taking to ensure equity under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FSIP). It is my pleasure to report to the House that all farmers that have, to this date, received their inputs under FISP received 6 x 50kg bags of fertiliser and1 x 10 kg bags of maize seed in all districts across the country. This is the first step to attaining equity in the implementation of the programme.

 

Madam Speaker, in the 2021/2022 agricultural season, a total of 1,024,434 farmers were targeted to benefit from FISP subject to meeting the prescribed criteria such as the paying of the farmer contribution of K400. Farmers began depositing their contributions to the programme in May 2021 and, as of 14^th February, 2022, all the targeted farmers had made their K400 contributions with a total of K410 million deposited and the distribution of inputs is now approaching its end.

 

Madam Speaker, as you may recall, a total of 215,000 metric tonnes of Compound D and 165,000 metric tonnes of Urea were contracted by the Government. As at 14^th February, 2022, over 201,000 metric tonnes of Compound D fertiliser and 147,000 metric tonnes of Urea had been delivered to the districts. This represents 93 per cent on Compound D and 89 per cent on Urea in terms of delivery to the districts.

 

Madam, with regard to the supply and distribution of seed, the Government supplied various types of seed as follows:

 

(a)        10,244 metric tonnes of maize;

 

(b)        12,121 metric tonnes of soya beans;

 

(c)        6,494 metric tonnes of groundnuts; and

 

(d)        1,030 metric tonnes of sorghum.

 

To date, all the contracted maize, groundnuts and sorghum seed have been supplied while 99.89 per cent of soya bean has also been supplied to the farmers.

 

Madam Speaker, the implementation of FISP had some challenges. However, despite those challenges, the majority of farmers have received their inputs. In order to improve the performance of the programme, the Ministry of Agriculture is currently undertaking a review of FISP.

 

Madam, allow me to conclude by sharing with the nation that the Government is closely monitoring the food security situation and providing farmers with support to ensure we address any challenges faced.

 

Madam Speaker, may you allow me to address the issue that was raised by the hon. Member for Lundazi on why certain farmers are yet to receive fertiliser.

 

Madam Speaker, you will recall that of the six suppliers that were contracted by our colleagues who were previously in office, one particular supplier has had serious challenges to conclude its contract. We can only assume that this is probably because they were given the largest portion of quantity to supply, which was 135,000 metric tonnes. As at today, this supplier is still struggling to supply about 20,000 metric tonnes to areas not only in the Eastern Province, but specific areas in the Eastern Province, Muchinga Province, the Northern Province and the Central Province.

 

Madam, the issue is: what are we doing? I am very positive that we are going to unbundle this issue this afternoon. All things being equal, we are certain that by tomorrow, lunchtime, the last batch of trucks to cover all these areas should be rolling taking the fertilisers to all the areas where there is a deficit.

 

Madam Speaker, I can only thank the ingenious velocity and desire to see things done by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, who is coming to our aid in order to solve this problem and so that it comes to an end.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: a point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I am very worried because, before we indicate on this machine, we normally wait for you to announce that hon. Members are free to ask on points of clarification. If you check this machine, you will find that it is already full when all of us are still waiting for you to announce.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: We seek your discretion to erase these names so that we start again.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: I do not know what magic I can play with the system. I was also surprised when I looked and saw so many names, but I think the names were given when the hon. Minister finished his ministerial statement. People immediately thought it was time to indicate. Just be alert next time, hon. Member. We cannot delete.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, thank you very much. Am I clear?

 

Madam Speaker: Yes, hon. Member, you are clear, but please, as there is so much interest on this matter, let us make sure that we ask short and precise questions so that we can accommodate as many hon. Members as possible. We have to work within the time limits that have been given.

 

Hon. Member for Bwacha, proceed, as directed.

 

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guidance. I will be very brief. As you know, I am ever brief.

 

Madam Speaker, in view of the stocks of maize that the hon. Minister has talked about in his ministerial statement that is reserved in the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) sheds for food security, why has the ministry not offloaded some of this maize to millers so as to help bring down the price of mealie meal, which, in most cases, in retail outlets is costing between K170 and K180.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, as at now, the FRA is selling maize to the public. It is not only selling to millers, but also to traders and, indeed, individuals. We are encouraging individuals to participate in the trade of maize through export. Some would like to mill it, while others would like to sell it in various forms. So, we are open to everyone, including millers.  

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, Katete is one of the districts where people have not received their Urea fertiliser despite them contributing the K400. The hon. Minister is aware that fertiliser has got a period in which it is supposed to be applied. The fertiliser is needed now because it is the period when farmers are supposed to apply the commodity, but there is nothing.

 

Madam Speaker, can he assure the people of Katete District that Urea fertiliser will be disbursed to Katete?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I sympathise with Hon. Peter Phiri and I wish to assure him that all things being equal, the Ministry of Agriculture is working very closely with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning in order to unbundle this very unfortunate problem, which was a problem we found, but will work to conclude and end it.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, the Farmer Input Support Program (FISP) has been shrouded in a lot of problems; corruption and misapplication of inputs, but now, we anticipate its reform. Can the hon. Minister assure the people of Zambia that under the New Dawn Administration, they are going to see a FISP that is going to achieve its objective and perform to their expectation?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, indeed, we have had problems under the programme. However, I would like to assure the House that all those whom we have apprehended and caught mismanaging the programme are either in police custody or were dismissed. I can assure the hon. Member that, working with relevant departments and ministries, we are going to introduce measures that will ensure that we deal with genuine farmers and those who really require the fertiliser.

 

Madam Speaker, we will introduce things like biometric identification so that a farmer can be identified to a field or in person. It will help us to know that it is the right farmer we want to give the inputs as opposed to what is happening now where there are a lot of bogus people who are selling this fertiliser. Even now, if we go to Lundazi, people are fighting to get fertiliser, but if you give it to them, they take it to Malawi and sell it there. So, we are working very hard to eliminate that behaviour. We will need the cooperation of all hon. Members in this House to do the right thing.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Speaker, the people of Dundumwezi are extremely excited this year for the efforts that the hon. Minister put in to ensure that they also received six bags of fertiliser each.

 

Madam Speaker, under the youth empowerment component of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), there are youths who are currently forming co-operatives in the hope that given the opportunity to access resources, they can pay the K400 Farmer Input Support Program (FISP) contribution. However, we have a challenge because officers in the ministry have not admitted new entrants in the recent past. So, what is the ministry doing to ensure that those youths who want to get into agriculture, which we have taken as a business, are included on the list of those who are going to benefit from the 2022/2033 FISP.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, never again are we going to allow fertiliser to be weaponised against the people of this country. We will not do that. What was happening against the people of the Southern Province and the Western Province was absolutely unacceptable. So, thank you for recognising the effort.

 

Madam Speaker, secondly, we are going to make sure that all those who have received fertiliser in the past three years, continuously, will not be on this new arrangement. We want new entrants.

 

Madam Speaker, again, I appeal to hon. Members to help us on this issue. This is not a single department or ministry issue. This is a national issue which requires all of us to get involved. Let us isolate people who have been getting fertiliser over and over again. Let us allow other people to get some fertiliser and also benefit.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, with what the hon. Minister has just explained; the late distribution of Urea, which many hon. Members have complained about; and the pests which have invaded peoples fields, would he be in a position to assure this nation that a very important campaign promise, which the UPND made, the reduction of the price of mealie meal from what it is currently to K50 per 25kg will be fulfilled by the end of the year? Will the Government achieve that goal? It promised us a lower price of mealie meal. With what is happening, is that attainable? The people of Zambia should make it account for that promise.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I will be answering with the same velocity as the questions come. We are in this position because of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, which gave contracts to people who had no capacity to supply. So, as hon. Members ask questions, they need to be very careful because I will react according to the way the question comes.

 

Madam Speaker, it is absolutely unacceptable for any hon. Member who belongs to the PF to actually talk about this fertiliser. It is better he/she keeps quiet.

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Mr Mtolo: We are in this problem because of them.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Mr Mtolo: However, I wish to assure the hon. Member that when we contract suppliers for fertiliser, we will make sure that it comes in at the right price and at the right time so that we do not delay delivery. We will deliver the right quantity and the right quality; not the evil that used to happen.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, if I stood here and mentioned some of the fertiliser that was produced – Fertiliser is supposed to be NPK 10:20:10 and 8 per cent sulphur. There was zero nitrogen, zero phosphate, zero potassium and zero sulphur, but these people were paid millions of Kwacha.

 

Madam Speaker, if we did not do the right things, ...

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Mtolo: ... our farmers were going to get their families to go and apply fertiliser, but they would have been applying nothing at all. We have had to work so hard to replace that fertiliser. If my hon. Colleagues knew how much suffering we have gone through with their fertiliser, honestly speaking, they would not ask questions like that one.

 

Madam Speaker, I confirm here to you that once we give the prices of fertiliser which are correct, the quality of fertiliser which is correct and the quantity of fertiliser which is correct, and it is delivered on time and there is no collusion with the buyers, we will have the ability to bring down the cost of maize and, therefore, the price of mealie meal will eventually come down. That is our aim.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

You are not supposed to mention anybody here because if you do, your name might also be mentioned. We do not want to go into that kind of debate. So, let us moderate our debate. I always say that when you ask a loaded question, it will get a loaded answer. So, let us moderate the questions that we ask. Let us stick to the points of clarification on the statement that the hon. Minister rendered before this House.

 

We make progress.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, there are some districts which received rainfall very late and are now experiencing continuous rainfall, leading to flooding. A classic example is Chama District. This is definitely going to undermine food security in the country.

 

Madam Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture whether his ministry has plans to ensure that the maize held in district Food Reserve Agency (FRA) depots in the districts where we expect food shortages will not be transported to Lusaka or provincial headquarters so that we do not have a situation where the Government will have to start transporting the same maize back to the districts as this will be very costly for it?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I can confirm that, indeed, we will try to make sure that we keep sufficient maize as close to the people as possible in the different districts so that we do not suffer unnecessary transport costs. I am grateful for that question.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, overpricing in procurement has been a very big challenge in this country in all sectors, including agriculture. To resolve that challenge, under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, we amended the law, the Public Procurement Act, to ensure that the price range for commodities and services was within acceptable limits.

 

Madam Speaker, we are aware that in the recent past, under this administration, there was procurement of fertiliser of up to US$1,400 per metric tonne as opposed to the earlier US$1,000 per metric tonne, which was condemned by it. The hon. Ministers responses on the Floor of the House are that he will do everything possible to ensure that fertiliser is procured within prices that are acceptable.

 

Madam Speaker, what is he doing to ensure that we do not see a repeat of what we saw a few months ago where this ministry contracted and procured fertiliser at a very expensive price?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, we had to do what we did because the previous Government did not want to deliver fertiliser to the Southern Province and that made us buy fertiliser in haste in order for us to deliver it on time. It is absolutely unacceptable for Hon. Mundubile to stand here and challenge me in public that we bought expensive fertiliser. We did that because the previous Government had not bought a single bag for the Southern Province. We had to buy fertiliser in haste and, as a consequence, suffered what you do when you buy in haste.

 

The hon. Member should look at the price of the fertiliser that we will have for the coming season. I am challenging him to stand on that issue so that we can let the public know.

 

Madam Speaker, we never contracted a new buyer; we only contracted those suppliers who were contracted by the PF. The price changed because at that time, the exchange rate of the Dollar was different and the availability was different. Everything was different and so, the parameters changed and we bought in haste. So, it is unethical and wrong for the hon. Leader of the Opposition to pretend that he is an angel when, actually, they are the cause of this problem.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mundubile: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, we raise questions to elicit answers from hon. Ministers. So, I do not think that the response from the hon. Minister is fair. He cannot say that it is unethical to ask a question. The truth of the matter, upon his own admittance, is that he procured fertiliser expensively. How, then, can he say that it was unethical to ask such a question? The people of Zambia needed to know why fertiliser was procured at US$1,400 per metric tonne, as opposed to US$1,000 per metric tonne.

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to say that I engaged in unethical conduct by asking a question that is within his ambit?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I think, as we listen to the answers and ask questions, let us control our tempers and emotions. Once we ask in a particular way – these are the types of questions I say are loaded. From what I have seen, when the hon. Minister was answering, the Leader of the Opposition was also reacting and, in the process, they were debating with each other in disregard of the rules and procedures of the House. So, please, as we ask and answer questions, let us be moderate in the manner in which we do so and the type of language we use. We are not here to fight each other; we are here just to get information for the benefit of the people of Zambia. That is what I can say by way of guidance.

 

Let us make progress.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, according to the hon. Minister –

 

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order on whom?

 

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, obviously, it is on the hon. Minister. However, the person who is speaking is the hon. Member for Kasenengwa.

 

Madam Speaker: No. We have just finished one point of order. We cannot have one point of order after another point of order.

 

Mr Chilangwa: No. We can, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

 

Mr Chilangwa: Yes!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chilangwa: Yes. What does it say here?

 

Madam Speaker: That is why I am asking. The point of order is on whom?

 

Mr Chilangwa: If the answers we are getting are not –

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. Member: Answer the question.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Chilangwa: Imwe, ndelanda naba Speaker, ikalenifye.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Hon. Member for Kawambwa, I was asking: On whom are you raising the point of order?

 

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I am rising on a point of order against the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

 

Madam Speaker: What is the nature of the point of order?

 

Mr Chilangwa: It is in pursuant to Standing Orders 65 (1) (b), which says:

 

“Ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.”

 

Madam Speaker, I am very worried and concerned. We have seen this fashion by the hon. Colleagues on your right of coming to this House and wanting to speak all over the place without being factual. Is the hon. Minister in order to come to this House and claim that there was no single provision of fertiliser or farming inputs for the Southern Province and Western Province without laying the documentation or information on the Floor of the House?

 

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: From where I am sitting, I will not know whether the hon. Minister is being factual or the hon. Member for Kawambwa is being factual. The only way that I can be assisted is if the hon. Member for Kawambwa has got any information to counter what the hon. Minister is saying, he can lay that information on the Table and then we will be able to find out who is telling the truth. So, on that ground alone –

 

Mr Chilangwa: Most obliged, Madam Speaker. I will do that.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you. Can we make progress?

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture indicated that there were so companies that were contracted to deliver fertiliser. However, one of them failed to deliver and that is the one they are dealing with right now, the one they hope will start delivering fertiliser by tomorrow. I would like to believe that these were contracts which were done before people were paid any money. As it is now, this fertiliser is being delivered beyond its stipulated time. What measures is the Government taking or, in short, is it taking any legal action against this company that breached the contract? Secondly, why has Government allowed this company–

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Twasa ... to deliver counterfeit fertiliser?

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kasenengwa. Am I not loud enough?

 

Mr Twasa: Madam Speaker, you are loud enough.

 

Madam Speaker: Only one question per hon. Member is allowed. There are many questions that hon. Members would like to ask. It is my wish that by 1540 hours, I close this item. So, let us make sure that we ask precise questions so that we allow other hon. Members to ask as well. This is not the only item on the order paper. We have other items. So, please, just ask one question.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I will attempt to answer the first part.

 

Mr Twasa: Answer the second part.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, may I be reminded what the second part was.

 

Madam Speaker: We will lose time just answer the question that you understood.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, one of the suppliers defaulted on delivering on time, but I did not say we were dealing with him. I said we were dealing with that issue. So, we are looking at other sources to cover the shortage, which the supplier failed to supply.

 

I thank you, Madam

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, in his submission, the hon. Minister mentioned the many challenges that he has been facing in the distribution of fertiliser. He assured the House that by tomorrow, fertiliser would be distributed to areas that had not received. He is aware that Lumezi has no storage facilities for that fertiliser. This has been a source of concern on the safety of that fertiliser. What is the hon. Minister doing about storage facilities in those areas that do not have them?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I am very familiar with the storage facilities in Lumezi. It is true that they are insufficient. However, as at now, I have been to those sheds; they are totally empty and whatever fertiliser is going to the area we will deliver it to that shed which is completely empty on the right side of the road as you go towards Lundazi.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munsanje (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the excellent job he is doing in the Ministry of Agriculture. I raise a situation in which our farmers in Mbabala Constituency are told to register and wait for three years before they can be admitted onto the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). I want the hon. Minister to clarify the correct procedure for the farmers to get onto FISP, without being hindered by those extension officers that are making it difficult for them to enrol onto the programme.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the overall answer is that we are going to make sure that all newly registered companies and co-operatives benefit. We shall substitute those who have been collecting fertiliser for a long time. In areas where we have had a different system, we will allow members to know how they can access the fertiliser. The Southern Province was under the e-Voucher system which did not really require the member to be affiliated to any grouping. As long as one had an e-voucher one could go and get. However, we will inform the public once the system we are going to use is ready and in place.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Nyirenda (Lundazi): Madam Speaker, congratulations to the hon. Minister for delivering on time for the people of the Southern Province and other areas. However, what is good for the goose, is good for the gander. The people of Lundazi are demanding their balance of fertiliser. Can the hon. Minister tell them when he will give them the balance?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I will repeat; all things being equal, we are unbundling that issue this afternoon. By tomorrow, it is our prayer that trucks will start rolling to deliver fertiliser to all the different areas where there has been a deficit.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me, on behalf of the people of Chasefu, this opportunity.

 

Madam Speaker, firstly, I commend the hon. Minister of Agriculture. I have personally worked with him and have seen his efforts. He is one of the hon. Ministers I should commend for being very open. It is only in this country where we celebrate wrong things, but he states the facts.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has assured this nation that he is reforming the programme and I encourage him and his Government to do so.

 

Madam Speaker, what is the Government planning on technocrats that have been messing-up this process and are still in the system? What action is going to be taken on them? If the hon. Minister does not touch this cadre, those reforms will not yield results in this country.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to commend the hon. Minister and also thank him. He should continue with his good work. We are waiting for fertiliser in Chasefu today or tomorrow, as my counterpart from Lundazi said.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, for all those erring officers, once we get their names, appropriate action will be taken. I repeat that those who have been caught will not be dismissed by the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Agriculture; they will be dismissed by the Secretary to the Cabinet so that we eliminate any room, whatsoever, for appeal. For those who have been caught and are in police custody, we will not help them, whatsoever. We will allow the law to take its course.

 

Madam Speaker, for areas where hon. Members know that the officers were mischievous, let them write to the ministry so that we can move these officers elsewhere. Strangely, there are certain areas where the hon. Members of Parliament have said, “Do not touch my officers; they are extremely efficient and good.”

 

Ms Nakaponda: Ni ba kabolala!

 

Mr Mtolo: They have actually come to our offices and told us not to move such officers. So, we will move around those officers who have been mischievous.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: I had promised that by 1541 hours, we will leave this item, but I have exercised my discretion. I will allow four more questions. The hon. Member for Chilubi will start because I keep on cutting him off when he is asking questions.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, thank you that you do notice that.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, according to the Budget co-circular for 2022/2024, a Manual for Preparing the 2022/2024 Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) and the 2022 Budget, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning stated in paragraph 29 that to cost items that are procured with foreign currency such as imported material, under which fertiliser falls, in 2022, the Kwacha will be quoted at K19.70 to US$1, in 2023, the Kwacha will be quoted at K19.90 to US$1 and in 2024; the Kwacha will be quoted at K20.00 per US$1.

 

Madam Speaker, the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government promised, away from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), that it would work on the price of fertiliser. Through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, is the Government confirming that the price of fertiliser will never be reduced up to 2024 and going forward to 2025 by this admission in the circular?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the answer is an obvious no. What determines the price of fertiliser is the supply price. The US Dollar has an effect, but if the price of fertiliser is US$600 a tonne, it remains US$600 a tonne. It only increases if you start cladding it with all sorts of things and you raise it to US$1,000. The answer is no. I cannot stand here and say I confirm that our price will be high. That would be wrong on my part.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: Since this is the month for women, I will now only attend to hon. Members who are ladies.

 

Ms Nakaponda (Isoka): Madam Speaker, the good people of Isoka would like to know the date when they are going to receive their fertiliser.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Tomorrow!

 

Ms Nakaponda: We want to know the date.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I really sympathise with the hon. Member from Isoka because, indeed, the quantities that have to go to Isoka are quite heavy and I know that she is under a lot of stress. We will try our level best. I repeat; we will try to unbundle the issue this afternoon and, by tomorrow, if this issue is unbundled, we will endeavour to start allowing the trucks to roll over. The good part is that the supplier we are dealing with has fertiliser dotted all over and, therefore, it will be very easy to take the fertiliser where it is supposed to be used.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, was the contractor who failed to supply fertiliser paid and, if so, what plans has the Government to recover the money?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, yes, unfortunately, this supplier was paid a 100 per cent.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

 

Mr Mtolo: As we talk, this issue is with the investigative wings of this country; the Anti Corruption Commission (ACC), the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) and the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC).

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mrs Sabao (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, we have this situation where the supplier is the distributor and on the ground, it is only the District Agricultural Coordinating Office (DACO) receiving inputs. That creates room for manipulation. That is why we have shortages on the ground. Now, what plans does the New Dawn Government have to change this system where the supplier is the distributor?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I am grateful that the hon. Member for Chikankata has raised this point. I can assure her that the New Dawn administration is seriously looking at the contracts which it will use with different suppliers so that issues like the one the hon. Member has been experiencing are eliminated in the contract instead of trying to do it practically, the way we tried to do it.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms Lungu (Chawama): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chawama this opportunity to ask a question. I am a bit concerned because we have only been stressing on the Southern Province not having received fertiliser. Is it safe to say that there are other parts of the country that are perceived to have gotten their share of the fertiliser that will not be getting it this time around? We need to now look at uniting the country.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chawama for that good question. There are two systems which the country adopted to give out fertiliser. One was called the Direct Input Supply where one is given papers to go and collect fertiliser from a supplier which fertiliser has already been bought by the State. The other system is the Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) system which was the instrument used for the Southern Province and the Western Province. In this vein, the Government does not buy the fertiliser and distribute it in the district. It is expected that the private sector, the agents, will have the fertiliser and then the Government will give the farmer a voucher, in other words, a debit card which is loaded with sufficient funds to go and get that fertiliser. It is for that reason I said that there was no fertiliser in the Southern Province and the Western Province. The Government did not deliver fertiliser there. It expected the private sector to have fertiliser, which fertiliser it did not know the quality, the quantity and all sorts of variables.

 

Madam Speaker, what we did was to equalise and take the Direct Input Supply to the Southern Province and the Western Province. That is why the people of these two provinces became so happy. They also started participating like others in other parts of the country.

 

Madam Speaker, what we are now going to do is that whatever system we have will be universal to the whole country so that no single group of the Zambian community complains of having been given a different type of plate from what others receive.

 

Madam Speaker, I hope my dear sister from Chawama has understood this. If not, I am ready to sit with her and explain further.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms M. Phiri (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, going by the passion that the hon. Minister has for agriculture, I believe that he knows the consequence of applying fertiliser late, which is crop damage. I am asking on behalf of the good people of Milanzi when the balance of the fertiliser, that was supposed to be delivered months ago, reaching the good people of Milanzi, particularly.

 

Madam Speaker: Although the question has been answered, since it is me who wanted the ladies to ask, may the hon. Minister respond.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, may I take this opportunity to wish all the ladies in the House a very happy month and I hope that the country will be happier, going forward.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to assure the hon. Member for Milanzi that we are trying to unbundle the problem this afternoon. If it works out, and I am sure that it will, by tomorrow, we will start rolling out fertiliser to different areas. I am saying that everything being equal, we will, by tomorrow, start delivering fertiliser.

 

Madam Speaker, this is an albatross around my neck, but it is something one has to do when one is in such a position.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Bonus question from the hon. Member for Chitambo.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me to ask my traditional cousin, who is the hon. Minister of Agriculture, a question. There seems to be something that he is not telling the nation. He wants to unbundle this issue this afternoon and ensure that he delivers fertiliser by tomorrow.

 

Madam Speaker, in one of his answers, the hon. Minister said that the contractor has fertilizer doted all over the country. What is this issue that he is unbundling this afternoon and why has this same contractor not delivered the fertiliser which is doted all over the country?

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the contractor or the supplier we are talking about is not the one who is in default. We are trying to ask one of the suppliers who had been contracted to help out. Now, when I say ‘unbundling’, that supplier who is not supplying was paid in advance. That supplier we are trying to use is saying that he needs an instrument which will confirm that he will be paid the money. That is where I say, “If we unbundle it, then, by tomorrow, the fertiliser will be released.”

 

Madam Speaker, this supplier is causing us untold misery, this supplier contracted by my dear cousin sitting on your left side.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: I think it was cousinship. I think we have exhausted this item.

 

I have also permitted the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics to make a ministerial statement.

 

RISE IN THE NUMBER OF ROAD TRAFFIC CRASHES AND MEASURES THE GOVERNMENT IS PUTTING IN PLACE TO CURB THEM

 

Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali): Madam Speaker, with the leave of the House, kindly permit me to express my profound gratitude to you for allowing me this rare privilege and opportunity to deliver this ministerial statement on the continued escalation of road traffic crashes and fatalities on our roads.

 

Madam Speaker, it is, indeed, with a heavy heart that I come before this august House to make this statement owing to the many lives that we have lost in traffic accidents which, but for certain known facts, could have been avoided.

 

Madam Speaker, it is disheartening that despite several measures which the Government has put in place to curb the scourge, road traffic crashes increased to 32,372 in 2021 as compared with 28,484 recorded in 2020 and 30,648 in 2019. In the same unfortunate vein, the number of fatalities increased to 2,163 in 2021 as compared with 1,690 in 2020 and 1,746 in 2019. These statistics represent 13 per cent increase in road traffic crashes in 2021, and a 28 per cent increment in road traffic fatalities in the same year.

 

Madam Speaker, in December 2021, the number of road traffic crashes recorded was 2,658 and that number reduced slightly to 2,383 in January 2022. The first two months of 2022 have recorded several fatal crashes that include the following:

 

Madam Speaker, on 12^th January, 2022, at Kateshi, along the Kasama/Mbala Road, around 0730 hours, a van and a truck collided head-on as the driver of the van lost control of his vehicle. Two people were killed on the spot while three others were seriously injured.

 

Madam Speaker, sadly, the cause of this accident was driver fatigue according to the accident investigation report.

 

Madam Speaker, on 27^th January, 2022, in Pemba, around 0430 hours, a Mitsubishi Rosa bus belonging to the United Church of Zambia and a freightliner truck collided head-on as the driver of the bus failed to keep to his lane.

 

Madam Speaker, sadly, thirteen people lost their lives while seventeen were seriously injured. Here too, according to the accident investigation report, driver negligence, owing to failure to maintain his lane, may have also been attributed to driver fatigue going by the time that the accident occurred.

 

Madam Speaker, on 5^th February, 2022, at Kafwimbi area in Isoka District, around 1300 hours, a minibus overturned. Two people died while three others were injured.

 

Madam Speaker, the cause of the accident was as a result of excessive speeding, according to the accident investigation report.

 

Madam Speaker, on 11^th February, 2022, around 0730 hours, at Luanshya turnoff, along the Ndola/Kitwe dual carriage way, a small car and a van collided and two lives were lost. According to the accident investigation report, the cause of the accident was human error owing to failure to stop at a junction.

 

Madam Speaker, on 13^th February, 2022, around 1945 hours, along the Ndola/Kitwe dual carriage way, a truck driver lost control of the motor vehicle and plunged into the Kafue River and this resulted into the loss of two lives.

 

Madam Speaker, on 14^th February, 2022, around 1020 hours, in Kapiri Mposhi, a Zambia Railways train collided with a fuel tanker and two lives of the locomotive operators were lost. According to the accident investigation report, the cause of the accident was human error due to failure by the fuel tanker driver to stop at all level crossings.

 

Madam Speaker, on 18^th February, in Mazabuka, at Nyati area, around 1620 hours, a truck and a small car collided head-on and two people died on the spot. The cause of the accident was human error as the driver of the truck was overtaking improperly. This was according to the accident investigation report.

 

Madam, on 24^th February, at Mkushi, around 0530 hours, a minibus collided head-on with a Tanzanian registered truck. It was in this accident that we sadly lost the Mayor of Mongu and two others. Here too, according to the accident investigation report, the cause of the accident was human error due to the driver of the truck overtaking improperly.

 

Madam Speaker, on 26^th February, at Mpika, around 2300 hours, a Lusaka bound big bus from Nakonde hit into a pothole, causing the driver to lose control of the vehicle. It careered off the road and plugged into a nearby stream. Seven people died and thirty-three others were injured. The cause of the accident was human error due to excessive speed on a damaged road laden with potholes.

 

Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Government and, indeed, on my own behalf, I wish to convey the message that our thoughts and prayers go out to the bereaved families. May the souls of our dearly departed forever rest in God’s eternal peace.

 

Madam Speaker, the aforementioned causes and effects of the mentioned accidents clearly spell out two over-arching factors as follows:

 

1. human negligence and bad road user behaviour among motorists

 

Over speeding, failure to judge distance with on coming vehicles when overtaking, drunk driving and the use of mobile phones are major behavioural factors that have contributed to these road accidents;

 

      b. poor state of the roads

Allow me to single out the road stretch between Lusaka and Ndola. This road stretch is associated with high traffic volumes and has predominantly been recording the highest number of road traffic crashes. Due to deep potholes and rutting, travel speeds have reduced to lower than 70 km/h speed limit. This has resulted in impatient driving, which has lead to excessive speeding, improper overtaking, misjudging of clearing distance resulting in head-on collision crashes.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government is concerned about this trend and cannot allow this situation to continue unabated. When we noticed a spike in accidents around September 2021, I instructed the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) to implement more stringent road safety enforcement programmes. Among the immediate strategise being implemented to curb this scourge are:

 

1. scaling up of road traffic enforcement through combined motorised road patrols by the Zambia Police and the RTSA in order to enforce the law and regulations issued by the Government;
2. suspending of drivers licences for road users that are perpetual offenders for over-speeding.
3. scaling up of the mounting of mobile speed cameras to curb the vice of over-speeding;
4. scaling up of road safety education using various media platforms in order to improve road user behaviour;
5. displaying inside all public service buses the RTSA toll free line 983 and the number plate of the bus and sensitising of passengers to report an over-speeding bus to the RTSA call centre;
6. enhancing of surveillance for long distance buses using Global Position System (GPS);
7. mitigating of accidents as a result of broken-down vehicles along the highways. The Government, through the RTSA, has procured an additional toll truck to be stationed in the Central Province for quick response for clearing broken down tracks which cause major obstruction on the roads; and
8. the Government has released funds amounting to K4 million, through the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development for road maintenance on various roads.

 

Madam Speaker, in the long term, the Government will endeavour to undertake the following:

 

1. construction of a dual carriage way between Lusaka and Ndola, which is an area where almost 60 per cent of all fatalities are recorded. Meanwhile, we shall engage with the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development and the Treasury that short term remedial works be undertaken on roads;
2. amendment of the Road Traffic Act No.11, 2002, to introduce regulations such as probationary driving licences and the demerit point system to change driver behaviour. Probationary in the context that a new driver recently obtaining a license cannot drive beyond a certain limit, particularly, on our highways;
3. liaise with the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security, in order for the RTSA and the Zambia Police to utilise the overhead cameras installed countrywide and enhance over speeding rules enforcement; and
4. re-training of Public Service Vehicle (PSV) drivers.

 

Madam Speaker, with these interventions, we are optimistic that we will reverse the unprecedented rising trend in road crashes and fatalities.

 

Madam Speaker, most cardinal is that people need to learn to regulate themselves rather than depend on the Government to regulate them. We need to change our behaviour as drivers and road users.

 

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I urge members of the general public to assist the nation and, indeed, themselves in achieving the country’s road safety agenda. I urge all motorists to please adhere to road rules at all times, and not sometimes.

 

Madam Speaker, the public is also requested to make use of the RTSA and the Zambia Police toll free lines to report any bad driver behaviour. This fight can only be won if we all work together as one with the aim of achieving a higher road safety profile.

 

Madam Speaker, in summary, we need:

 

1. safer people to be our drivers;
2. safer transport equipment, in terms of fitness of our vehicles;
3. safer transport infrastructure; and
4. to drive at safer speeds.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to equally inform the House that we will, as the Government, continuously review our post-crash care system so that we can avoid further loss of life.

 

Madam Speaker, may I take this opportunity to equally implore the general public to be more empathetic to crash victims and offer them first aid as opposed to taking social media videos. Let us be more empathetic because we are as such as a people.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister’s statement has come at the right time and I want to speak to us, the leaders. My question goes in that direction.

 

Madam, many are the times that we have seen vehicles driven by hon. Ministers and Permanent Secretaries (PSs) overtaking carelessly on roads, risking other road users. They overtake at will and only switch on their lights. What is the hon. Minister doing to stop this kind of driving?

 

Rev. Katuta: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for that very important question. I think that my statement is pretty clear and covers everybody. The current state of our roads in Zambia is so treacherous that we risk our own lives when we drive recklessly. Therefore, this is a challenge to those that are tasked with the responsibility of law enforcement, particularly in the observation of traffic rules and regulations.

 

Madam, I do believe that hon. Ministers have been given professional drivers, trained to move at certain speeds, but even that must not be at the expense of endangering others on the roads.

 

I thank the hon. Member and I am sure that under this New Dawn Administration, there is equality before the law ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Tayali: ... unless a Very Very Important Person (VVIP) has been given an escort. It is prudent when they have no escort that they move normally. Otherwise, it is risky to go about overtaking unnecessarily.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, a number of people, including some ill-informed politicians condemned the installation of the overhead cameras throughout the country. I realise that the importance of these overhead cameras is, of course, to control speed and manage the behaviour of motorists on our roads. When is the hon. Minister going to activate these overhead cameras?

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very insightful question.

 

Madam, I want to agree with him that the overhead cameras have a component that agencies like the RTSA can fall upon in terms of over speeding regulation. This is what this New Dawn Administration is trying to bring in. The initial motive of the overhead cameras was not for the enforcement of traffic rules and regulations. Those were cameras that were intended to spy on the general citizenry of this country, particularly those who were in the Opposition.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Tayali: So, now, it is this New Dawn Administration that will put these cameras to good use, and that is to protect the lives of citizens.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, let me begin by joining the hon. Minister, on behalf of the people of Roan, in conveying our sincere condolences for all the people that perished on our roads.

 

Madam Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s statement, he tabulated quite a number of issues and outlined a number of punitive measures to be taken against all those who contravene rules on our roads.

 

Madam, the hon. Minister also attributed the major causes of these fatalities to human fatigue and poor judgment on our roads and others. What can the hon. Minister tell the nation in as far as the measures that will be taken against the local drivers? What about foreign drivers on our roads? What is he doing to ensure that they also abide by the rules of our land and that they drive in a noble and careful manner? I can cite the example of the accident in which His Worship the Mayor of Mongu perished, which was caused by a foreign truck. What is the ministry doing to ensure that even those who come in to drive on our roads observe, to the maximum, the standards and rules that we have set as a country?

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, in answering the question, allow me to state that once a foreign truck enters this country, it is equally bound by the rules, regulations and laws of the land. The drivers are within our jurisdiction and will suffer the same punitive measures that any other local driver or truck driver may face while using a Zambian road.

 

Madam, I think that where we have been lacking is in the effective enforcement in terms of being able to pick out those that contravene. This is why I have stated that, perhaps, the time has come that we hastened this collaboration between the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security and the RTSA, through my ministry, to make use of those overhead cameras so that we have a much wider area of inspection and we can be able to pick out anybody that may be driving dangerously putting other road users in harm’s way.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mushanga: Madam Speaker, I was following the statement keenly. Despite all the measures put in place by the previous administration, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, and this Government in preventing accidents on our roads, they have continued to happen. They happened yesterday, today and, maybe, even in the future, they will continue to happen. What will the Government do, through the Ministry of Home Affairs and Internal Security and the Ministry of Transport and Logistics, to drivers who will continue to disregard and ignore all the measures that he outlined in his statement today, Thursday, 3^rd March, 2022?

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, it appears as though the hon. Member, much as he claims that he followed attentively, may have missed the facts. I want to agree with him, though, that there has been an upward trend that has carried forward from the previous regime to the New Dawn Administration. This may be attributed to the fact that our roads have become a danger, indeed. The bad state of the roads has not helped the situation.

 

Madam, you will realise that accidents are not happening within Lusaka. There were claims of massive infrastructure development in this country. Yes, perhaps the focus may have been in the urban areas. Roads were done in Lusaka, but key roads, which should have helped the situation to bring down these fatalities, were never attended to despite the songs of massive infrastructure development.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Tayali: Today we are faced with this harsh reality that when you drive on the Great North Road, you are on the ‘hell run’. Therefore, if you do not help yourself by limiting speed, you may crash and lose your life.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to interrogate the statement by the hon. Minister.

 

Madam Speaker, you have a mammoth task. It is huge. Time after time, you have counselled both sides that this is not the Floor for politicking. Lo and behold, we always end up politicking instead of doing what we are supposed to do in this House.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, the cameras were mounted and somebody goes and says, they were for ‘spying’. Then he goes to confirm and say, yes, there is a component which can help us in this fashion.

 

Madam Speaker, in that statement, which the hon. Minister issued, there was a component which he did not touch on. More often than not, those of us who move on the road most of the time find that some of the accidents are caused by livestock. There are certain parts of this country where you have to be very careful. As you try to avoid hitting into a pig or a goat, you end up on the other lane and other vehicles would have arrived. More often than not, there are certain parts of this country where cyclists, before you know where they are coming from, are on your lane and you try to dodge them.

 

Madam Speaker, in this regard, what is the hon. Minister and his ministry doing to try and engage local authorities as well as other stakeholders, even cyclists and people who keep livestock, to ensure that they are not part and parcel of causing these tragedies on our roads?

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister of Transport and Live ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question although I must confess that this is not a statement that requires interrogation. This is one of those none aligned issues that cut across political lines because we are facing something that is affecting all of us.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to also remind the hon. Member that had he been paying attention, we took time to prepare a report and to also give evidence according to accident investigations as to what the causes of these accidents were. None of them attributed an accident to livestock roaming aimlessly on our roads. Moreover, those of us who are properly trained as drivers will know that when you meet an animal like a goat, you have to hit the goat. You do not go and hit your fellow motorist who is coming ahead of you.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, when I looked back and checked, there was a Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 78 of 2017. This SI was put in place to curb night driving by public services vehicles. I am perturbed right now that we have buses that are still moving at night as revealed by the hon. Minister. The bus which got involved in an accident in Mpika was moving beyond the stipulated time. Why has the ministry not continued to enforce this SI to curb night driving and reduce on accidents?

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, let me same say that there are two issues here. There is an apparent reason and the real reason as to why that accident happened. While it is true that there is a ban on night driving, had that motor vehicle not run into a pothole and cause the driver to lose control, perhaps we would not have known about it.

 

Madam Speaker, it is why my statement has been so comprehensive that we need to get our eyes all over our Zambian roads in so far as enforcement is concerned. Once, for instance, we make use of the overhead cameras, whether somebody did move at night and God allowed them to freely arrive at their destination, a camera would have picked them up that they moved at night and punitive measures would follow.

 

Madam Speaker, I think what I focused on was what led to the loss of lives, the seven people who died in that accident. Otherwise, the hon. Member is, indeed, on terra firma.

 

Madam Speaker, at the end of the day, this is why I said citizens out there should learn to regulate themselves. Let us learn to observe rules and regulations. This is where we have a truant driver who, out of wanting to be smart, decides that he will break the night ban, but then faces a consequence such as what happened, a very sad occurrence, indeed.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, I have followed very keenly the explanation by the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics. He alludes to the fact that the poor state of the road network is one of the reasons we are having so many accidents. While it remains an indisputable fact that you can drive very slowly when you are in Lusaka, you cannot drive at 20, 30 or 40 km if you are driving from Lusaka to the Copperbelt.

 

Madam Speaker, the state of the road I have sited, Lusaka to Ndola, is so bad that no matter how careful you are, you are bound to have such a challenge.

 

Madam Speaker, in the immediate term, what is the hon. Minister trying to do, with his counterpart from the Ministry of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development, to address this poor state of the road even if it meant patching up those potholes in which people can actually bath, which have formed up on the roads?

 

Madam Speaker, surely, the role of the Road Development Agency (RDA) and local authorities is to ensure that when potholes develop, they can easily attend to them so that we can avoid fatalities such as the ones we are recording.

 

Madam Speaker, what is your ministry doing in consultation with your counterpart to address these portholes that are mushrooming everywhere?

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, I want to disagree with the hon. Member. At no point in my report did I highlight the bad state of the road as being the major cause of accidents. It is just, but one of them.

 

Madam Speaker, the major cause of accidents in Zambia has been attributed to human behaviour. The way our drivers conduct themselves on our roads has been the major factor causing accidents leading to death.

 

Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member had followed, I also did make mention that this New Dawn Administration has started releasing funds for stopgap measures, exactly for that purpose of patching up roads, particularly, in sections where there are too bad. This exercise has started and I did highlight that in my statement.

 

Madam Speaker, just to amplify how speed can be so dangerous when the roads are in their current state, I will give you an example that there are certain reputable firms in this country tasked with the responsibility of importing products such as fuel.

 

There is something unique in those reputable firms. Their vehicles are not being found to be involved in accidents, and the reason is simple; they have insisted that any trucker to be contracted by themselves must put a governor on that vehicle where one cannot exceed 80 Km/h. Apart from that, they have gone further to put Global Positioning System (GPS) on their trucks so that they are able to tell that when a driver has driven, for instance, for twelve or thirteen hours, they have to park and get the necessary rest, as human beings need to rest, before they can proceed on their journey.

 

Madam Speaker, these are undisputed facts which we should not even disagree on. We all know that the roads are bad. When roads are bad, what do we do? Let us regulate our speed. Let us change driver behaviour. No one should overtake when you are driving a vehicle which cannot allow you to increase your speed to sufficiently cover an undertaking of an overtaking. If we do not do this, these accidents will continue.

 

So, my brother, we are fully aware. We hope that through the RTSA, we can enhance this enforcement and ensure that people strictly adhere to these regulations.

 

Madam Speaker, I think that we should also go further and put signs on roads, as has been done on the Ndola/Lusaka dual carriage way. There ought to be signs that you are approaching a very bad stretch of a road. That is now talking to ministries, through the Road Development Agency (RDA). I think signage can also help. When you have not been on a particular stretch, you do not know that you are going on a section that is hell. Let us put signage such as “Uneven road up ahead. Please, slow down.” I think that will help as some people may simply come and drive at 180 Km/h and find that the road is completely gone, and this may result in fatal accidents.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I have listened to the hon. Minister, and I think the whole country is shocked. We are talking about life and death. Even if it is one soul that is lost, we expect a good response from the Government or the Executive.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about mounting cameras. Where? In Chienge?

 

Laughter

 

Rev. Katuta: Accidents have been happening between Mkushi and Kapiri Mposhi. There are no cameras there. Not even the SOS area has cameras. We have hon. Ministers who are taking the technocrats’ answers, and we are having a challenge. This is not a university; we are here to help the people of Zambia.

 

Laughter

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I am sorry to say this, but I am shocked. We came up with a Statutory Instrument (SI) due to the accidents that were happening during the life of the previous Session. The road is bad, yes, but I expect the hon. Minister to say that he is going to bring an SI to stop the heavy haulage vehicles from using roads to trains so that we save our roads. This is what I expected to hear.

 

Madam Speaker, how will the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) manage to carry out road patrols when it does not have equipment and staff? It is understaffed. Since Zindaba Soko left, it is like he went with members of staff. I know the current Chief Executive Officer (CEO) is working. We need to support the current CEO of the RTSA with what I have just mentioned; enough staff and equipment such as vehicles to carry out patrols and remove the Tanzanian trucks between Kapiri Mposhi and Mpika. 

 

Madam Speaker, it is sad. I am talking from experience. I drive on that route. It is not even a joke. You would find that a truck would have crossed the road. Now, I am hearing of cameras and that people should be cautious on the road –

 

Hon. Government Members: What is the question!

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Ask your question, hon. Member.

 

Rev. Katuta: The question is: When is this hon. Minister going to bring an SI to remove these heavy trucks from our roads and also improve the staffing levels at the RTSA?

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, indeed, happy women’s month. That was an attempt by the hon. Member to trivialise a very important subject. I adequately ...

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Mr Tayali: ... addressed a number of concerns that the hon. Member has raised. For instance, she talked about heavy trucks which break down and block roads. I already said in my statement that a toll truck has been procured and it is stationed in the Central Province for quick response to such scenarios.

 

Madam Speaker, she said SIs should be brought to this House so that heavy goods can be moved by rail. If the hon. Member pays very particular attention to the debates which go on in this House, she would have known that these are long-term measures which the United Party for National Development (UPND), the New Dawn Administration, has already pronounced itself on. However, we have an immediate danger of continued loss of life and we are talking about immediate remedial measures. This is what we are doing. All those factors about increasing staffing levels at the RTSA and road traffic inspectors are things we are looking into.

 

Madam Speaker, when you talk about lives, we are all Zambians. When we lose people, we lose them together. We do not lose them as UPND or PF. Therefore, the hon. member should be reasonable in her assessment of these things that we are dealing with. There were monies in the previous administration that were taken, purportedly, to rail rehabilitation. There was US$120 million that was supposedly put in the rail sector, but people have continued to die. We have not seen any improvement in rail infrastructure. This New Dawn administration is walking the talk. Right now talk is cheap. We want to walk the talk and show the Zambian people that there can be a leadership that can be true to the people’s concerns.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that one of the causes of these fatal accidents on our roads is driver behaviour. In that regard, I recall that the previous regime had put in place a Statutory Instrument (SI) which I would term as a temporal intervention. It banned public transport vehicles, the big buses, from travelling in the night. Clearly, that SI has had a negative effect of changing driver behaviour to being reckless on the roads because of the time pressure that they face. If you drive in the night, you will notice that the drivers of big busses have to cruise in order to meet the 2100 hours deadline.

 

Madam Speaker, has that SI not already outlived its usefulness needing to be revised so that transporters or bus drivers can be restricted to 80 km/h or 100 km/h, but be allowed to operate overnight?

 

Mr Tayali: Madam Speaker, now that was a reasonable question.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Tayali: I want to agree with the hon. Member. Being an information-based leadership, this New Dawn administration is looking at the real factors that have been causing these accidents. Like the hon. Member said, so far, we do not have statistical data that shows that banning buses from moving at night has helped the situation. If anything, the converse is true. We are carefully looking at that situation. When the time is appropriate, we may need to lift that ban if at all it may help driver behaviour to be maintained in a responsible manner.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I keenly followed the statement by the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics. Some of the measures that he mentioned to reduce road carnage were suspending drivers’ licences for erring drivers, retraining them and many others. He also gave us a toll free line in case we needed to call for any emergencies. At that time, when he gave us the toll free line, I quickly called the line twice from right here, but the calls went unanswered. What is the hon. Minister going to do to make the operations of the Road Traffic and Safety Agency (RATSA), especially the call centre, more effective and efficient?

 

Madam Speaker, can you imagine if in that instance I needed to report something very urgently and the phone went unanswered? It just leaves room for an accident or any eventuality to happen as a result of the hon. Minister’s officers not responding to emergency calls. What is the hon. Minister going to do about it? Is he going to retrain them also?

 

Mt Tayali: Madam Speaker, first of all, let me state that we have put in place measures were the RTSA can operate a toll free line. He says that he tried the line and there was no response. I guess I am not privy to the technical challenges that may have taken place that caused the lack of a response on the part of the RTSA. However, thanks so much for that information. I shall immediately take it up and challenge the RTSA to put its house in order.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

_______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

HEALTH FACILITIES IN WESTERN PROVINCE ACCREDITED TO NHIMA

 

258. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

 

1. how many health facilities in the Western Province were accredited to the National Health Insurance Management Authority, as of September, 2021;
2. what their names are; and
3. how the Scheme is enhancing the provision of health services in the province.

 

 

Rev. Katuta: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise a point of order. This point of order is being raised on account of the response that was given by the hon. Minister after I asked a question. When another hon. Member asked a question, his response was that “now, that is a reasonable question.”

 

Madam Speaker, from the look of things, this place is now a place of demeaning women by hon. Ministers. Initially, when I asked a question, I was told my question was unreasonable. According to Standing Order 65 (2):

 

“A member who is debating shall not –

 

1. use unparliamentary language or offensive expressions; or
2. make reference to a person who is not able to defend him or herself in the House.”

 

Madam Speaker, I am most interested with part (e). I would like to find out why the hon. Ministers of the New Dawn Government have decided to act like this. I say hon. Ministers because this has happened before and now, it is taking its toll. May I know why the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics called my question ‘unreasonable’ when we are talking about life and death? In my question, I did not demean his Government or demean him.

 

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, from the context that the hon. Minister was speaking, I find no injury or demeaning act that has been occasioned upon you by the hon. Minister using the word ‘unreasonable’. It is not offensive according to what I was listening to. It is not offensive in any way. Maybe it is because I am a lawyer and we use such terms a lot of times. So, for ‘reasonable’ or ‘unreasonable’ in the context that it was used, I do not find it demeaning to any hon. Member.

 

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Madam Speaker, as at September 2021, there were fourteen health district hospitals including two general hospitals in the Western Province which were accredited to the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA).

 

Madam Speaker, these were as follows:

 

1. Kalabo District Hospital;
2. Yuka Mission Hospital;
3. Kaoma District Hospital;
4. Mangango Mission Hospital;
5. Luampa Mission Hospital;
6. Lukulu District Hospital;
7. Lewanika General Hospital;
8. Mongu District Hospital;
9. Mulobezi District Hospital;
10. Sichili Mission Hospital;
11. Mwandi Mission Hospital;
12. Senanga General Hospital;
13. Yeta District Hospital; and
14. Shangombo District Hospital.

 

Madam Speaker, in short, there were fourteen hospitals in the Western Province that were on NHIMA, including two general hospitals, Lewanika and Senanga.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government, through NHIMA, is contributing to improved access to healthcare in the country through healthcare financing from the scheme. For instance, all the fourteen hospitals in the Western Province received about 25 per cent of their annual grant allocation in 2020 as part of the National Health Insurance Scheme Seed Fund into the hospitals and, as a result, claims payments into the Lewanika and Senanga General Hospitals have continued to increase.

 

Madam Speaker, NHIMA, despite its nascent age, at two years from establishment, has stepped in and stabilised funding to public hospitals, especially teaching and general hospitals.

 

Madam Speaker, in addition, you may wish to note that under the scheme, all registered members do not have to pay for treatment. Prior to the scheme, they would stay away from hospitals for fear of medical bills. The beauty of the scheme is that it is a kind of free health policy in that members are only paying 1 per cent of their salary for seven beneficiaries in their family for each member to access their services.

 

Madam Speaker, further, it should be noted that funding from NHIMA is a top up to the regular Ministry of Health Budget for services. This means that the complimentary financing to hospitals will result, progressively, into better quality healthcare with better health outcomes.

 

Madam Speaker, I should, however, note that there are still some teething challenges to access maximum benefits of the scheme, especially in rural areas. I would like to assure the nation that the New Dawn Government is on top of things and will ensure that these are, indeed, fixed in terms of early disbursements of the grants and improving the administration of the scheme; for instance, the issuance of cards.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I have gotten the responses from the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security. However, this question is very practical and NHIMA is a practical organisation which exists in Zambia. NHIMA’s creation is in relation to the delivery or the programme of universal health delivery.

 

Madam Speaker, if the hon. Minister was to be very practical, is she able to provide a position where beneficiaries are able to benefit from the scheme whilst they are paying the 1 per cent of their salary? Is that benefit capable of being proven? People in Kalabo, the workers, are complaining that there are no drugs in the hospitals for them despite being members of NHIMA. So, what is the proof that the members are benefiting over their 1 per cent contribution?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, as has been acknowledged in my submission, NHIMA is only about two years old. We acknowledge the challenges of operationalising the means and standard procedures for access for many people.

 

Madam Speaker, perhaps one of the things that I will demonstrate to the hon. Member for Kalabo Central is that NHIMA has paid slightly over K2.8 million towards the rehabilitation of eleven health facilities in the Western Province. This is besides the fact that people have been accessing health care even outside receiving the actual insurance card by presentation of their National Registration Cards (NRC).

 

Madam Speaker, there are also those amounts of money that go to accredited facilities as has been demonstrated here such as the K2.8 million which went to eleven of the fourteen health facilities to improve them so that they become places that are credible enough and which provide an environment that creates wellness. So, spending money to improve a facility and infrastructure is part of the benefit.

 

Madam Speaker, as we roll out the insurance cards, more people will begin to access the benefits of NHIMA in form of drugs, either from the hospitals or from the pharmacies that are accredited.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister the criteria which were used to identify the people or facilities that were going to offer these services in rural set-ups?

 

Madam Speaker: We are talking about the Western Province and not the whole country. So, the question is in relation to the Western Province. Therefore, the hon. Minister will answer in relation to the rural areas in the Western Province.

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, as was indicated earlier on, fourteen facilities have been accredited in the Western Province. It is either they are a district or a general hospital. This is being done because we know that a larger majority of those members that are insured through NHIMA access their health services through those facilities as they are spread out across the country. All Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) and mission facilities spread out around the countryside, be it district or general hospital, where the ones that were accredited.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I would like to seek clarity from the hon. Minister on the accrued contributions that NHIMA receives. Last time, NHIMA presented a report which showed that expenditure was lower as compared with the reserves, the money which NHIMA is keeping. Is it not possible that NHIMA spends more than what it should to service the institutions which later service the clients?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, I can understand the reservations and the frustrations of the hon. Member for Kalabo Central, but as I indicated, this is, but a two year old institution which has to play such a critical role and reach out to members that are spread out across a vast country with ten provinces. If I can talk of the constituencies, there are about 165 or so.

 

Madam Speaker, in terms of the effectiveness of delivery to meet up the levels of the subscribers, these are the matters that we are looking into as the New Dawn Government. We are forward looking and are already tabling strategic plans. There is a strategic plan in place and there other tactical plans that will help us put a system in place that will ensure that we are effective enough to be able to spend to the levels that have been contributed by the members.

 

Madam Speaker, we are forward looking and, in time to come, you will see that we have a system that will make sure that it is rolled out. As it is, we are already rolling out some of the basic facilities and systems like the cards that will show. Some institutions, such as Parliament, I am sure, and even other locations are already receiving these cards which make it possible for us to go faster than we are going at this moment.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Kasandwe but he was unavailable.

 

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, the people of Kalabo have suffered. I used to be the Deputy Secretary-General of the Zambia Congress of Trade Unions (ZCTU).

 

Madam Speaker, you will recall that workers in this country rejected the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) because it was viewed as another task to the workers of this country to help the Government then, which had problems with liquidity.

 

Madam Speaker, workers argued, through the unions, and I was there in the unions, that the benefits that would accrue after paying these taxes would not be seen in the immediate point. Members in Kalabo cannot to wait until the Government puts in place the systems for them to get the benefits of their taxes.

 

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think these taxes should be suspended until things are put in place and not use the money for infrastructure development? Workers want the money to benefit them when they fall sick. The people Kalabo and the nation are disappointed with this tax. Does the hon. Minister not think workers are now being proved right when they said that this is just another tax to finance the medical system in this country?

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, I think hon. Members should take a more positive message out there. I think that over the period of two years that this institution has existed, about 235 institutions have been accredited across the country. If we go by the amounts that have gone into infrastructural support, development or rehabilitation and so on and so forth, including what has gone into medications in collaboration with the Zambia Medicines Regulatory Authority (ZAMRA) and also the equipment that has gone to various accredited facilities around the country, there is a cause and a business case for the people of Zambia to enjoy the benefits that are coming with NHIMA. It shall be well.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, indeed, the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) is a young institution and, consequently, has many teething problems. However, a cursory look at it would review that it is running faster than it is able to carry itself. In this regard, I note that NHIMA has accredited that number of institutions the hon. Minister highlighted, which includes private health institutions and private pharmacies, especially along the line of rail.

 

Madam Speaker, given that NHIMA is still having several challenges, including not having a properly led out implementation strategy, will the ministry, at least, through the structures that exist, instruct NHIMA to first of all roll out to public institutions fully and have a working system before it begins bringing private institutions on board, especially that this is money that is being deducted, of course, by law, from people’s salaries? Therefore, how it is being applied needs to be closely monitored.

 

Madam Speaker, first of all, will she consider restricting this to public institutions before it is rolled out to private institutions so that we do not have cases of looting? Before we know it, we might acquire some of the tags that our colleagues, who were previously in power, will never be able to get off their backs.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, let us be brief as we ask questions.

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government subscribes to the motto to deliver services in whichever sector, including health, without leaving anyone behind. If we are saying that, then choice is part of the mechanism for delivery. So, there are those who are subscribers or members who may have easier access or may be closer to a private facility. We will not go the exclusion way. However, we would like to examine them. As we are developing further, we will put in place measures to ensure that part of the governance systems and institutional development measures and mechanisms ensure that people are not taken for a ride.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, the lamentations of Hon. Miyutu are a very clear indication that the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) was not created under the Ministry of Labour and Social Security, but under the Ministry of Health. Is it not about time to have a review in as far as where this organisation is supposed to be sitting?

 

Madam Speaker, quite frankly, what we are seeing in the Western Province could be the same in other parts of the country because the institution is sitting in the wrong ministry. Is it not about time that the Executive relooked at where NHIMA is sitting?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that comment. It is not a question, but a comment. The New Dawn Government does not work in silos. It is a Government of laws. When a law is put in place, we believe that they are those who are there to analyse for the Government and see where, at a given time, an institution should best be placed.

 

However, needless to say, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security and the Ministry of Health are in the same Government. We are encouraged to work in a multi-sectoral or inter-sectoral manner and not in silos. So, basically, in this moment, NHIMA has been placed where it is. At an appropriate time, those who are well placed to examine and re-examine the times and the needs of that moment will be able to say how we must realign ourselves.

 

The scheme is a social insurance scheme, although it is also a tool for health care financing. Therefore, it is part of the social security system.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, it is actually gratifying to note that an institution that was set up by the Patriotic Front (PF) has continued to produce very good results for the nation.

 

Madam speaker, I am a bit concerned. This institution was set up as a medical insurance fund. Are we not threatening to deplete this fund if we are going to use some of those funds that are contained in there to fund the construction of infrastructure instead of just using it for medical insurance?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, the environment in which medical services are delivered is part of the wellness package.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

REHABILITATION OF MORTUARIES IN FEIRA

 

259. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) (on behalf of Mr E Tembo (Feira)) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the mortuaries at the following Hospitals in Feira Parliamentary Constituency:

 

1. Katondwe Mission; and

 

1. Mandombwe;

 

 

        b. if so, when the plans will be implemented;

 

       c. what the estimated cost of the project is; and

       d. what the time frame for the completion of the project is.

 

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate the mortuary at the Katondwe Mission Hospital in Feira Parliamentary Constituency and had applied for funding under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in 2021, but the project was not approved. With the increase in CDF funding, the Government will reapply for funding of the rehabilitation works at the hospital.

 

Madam Speaker, as for Mandombwe, the facility is a health post and the Government does not provide mortuaries at health post level.

 

Madam Speaker, plans for the rehabilitation works at the Katondwe Mission Hospital will be implemented once funding is made available.

 

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost of the rehabilitation works at the Katondwe Mission Hospital is K45,000.

 

Madam, the timeframe for the completion of the project will only be determined once the contractor to carry out the works is identified.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, I am coming from a background where we were renovating a mortuary in Lumezi not long ago, of course, not through CDF funds. We had to outsource the funding for a very simple reason. These constituencies are extremely vast such that you cannot afford to keep the remains of the dead in an open space or in open air. How difficult is it for the ministry to mobilise such little funds so that mortuaries can be renovated within 48 hours like was the case in Lumezi?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I do not know. This is about Feira, but now we are in Lumezi.

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister will restrict herself to Feira.

 

Mrs Masebo: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Madam Speaker, I think this question was asked before some works were undertaken at these two clinics. Actually, the Katondwe Mission Hospital and the Mandombwe Health Post have been rehabilitated. I think what is just needed at the Mandombwe Health Post is ventilation, which is not working well. If this problem is not rectified, it will damage the compressor, and that will be very expensive to replace. I thought I should bring that to the attention of this honourable House.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Before we leave that question, the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi was why can the ministry not do for the Katondwe Mission Hospital and Mandombwe Health Post what was done in Lumezi? I think that is what the question was.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the question, as regards Feira, basically talked about the rehabilitation of mortuaries at the Katondwe Mission Hospital and the Mandobwe Health Post. My response was that there were plans to rehabilitate them. As you have now heard, the hon. Member says that, in fact, these plans have been implemented. Under his supplementary question, he says that there is now a new issue to do with air conditioning that has arisen, and I take note of it.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi said that we should do in Feira what was done in Lumezi. I think that what was done in Lumezi was to use resources from various sources available, including the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

 

Madam Speaker, the point from the hon. Member for Lumezi, which I should, maybe, respond to, which has a bearing on all other mortuaries, is the consideration of policy taking into account that in Feira, like in many other constituencies, places are far apart. When we have a clinic at the level of a health post, a rural or an urban health facility, it does not attract a mortuary because a mortuary is normally installed when we have a district hospital. Maybe it is time to review our policy so that we begin to connect mortuaries, especially at mini hospitals because many people travel long distances to bury their dead and that is a big cost.

 

Madam Speaker, yes, I agree that it is a policy for re-consideration. If you recall, I talked about the need to come here to redefine these categories of health facilities so that they make sense.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

MILK WASTED IN 2021

 

260. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

 

1. how many litres of locally produced milk went to waste, on average per month in 2021, countrywide, due to a lack of storage facilities;
2. what measures the Government is taking to ensure availability of refrigerated storage facilities to prevent wastage of milk and other dairy products;
3. what measures the Government is taking to improve milk production in order to prevent importation of the product;
4. whether the Government has any plans to empower cooperatives engaged in dairy farming in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency, with dairy animals; and
5. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote): Madam Speaker, in 2021, Zambia produced an estimated 686,109,000 litres of milk. However, approximately 34,305,450 litres went to waste translating to an average wastage of 2,858,787 litres of milk per month due to a lack of storage facilities.

 

Madam, the Government is continuously engaging the industry in order to find ways to incentivise investment in alternative energy solutions to cater for those farmers outside the national electricity grid. This is being done by putting in place tax incentives on solar powered cooling systems or technologies and solutions.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government is putting in place the following measures:

 

(a)        improving dairy cattle nutrition through the promotion of pasture and fodder crop production;

 

(b)        improving rangeland management by over sowing improved grasses and legume species;

 

(c)        establishing watering points to reduce distances animals move to access water;

 

(d)       promoting folder conservation for the dry season;

 

(e)        promoting dairy breeds by crossing exotic and local animals, mainly the Jersey and Fresians;

 

(f)        promoting the use of artificial insemination as a quick technique of improving milk production by using semen from tested dairy breeds;

 

(g)        promoting milk collection centres and processing plants under cooperative management ownership to facilitate milk trading;

 

(h)        strengthening extension services in dairy production; and

 

(i)         conducting milk quality tests using Government facilities.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to empower co-operatives engaged in dairy farming in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government plans to implement this immediately after farmers are identified, dairy cooperatives are created and capacity has been built.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, looking at the amount of waste, coupled with a lack of capacity by local farmers and the need to protect the local dairy industry, do we see the Government moving in to introduce new import regulations considering that we are importing a lot of dairy products from countries like South Africa to the detriment of the local industry?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, this is where you are seeing the Government coming in to improve the quality of the nutrition that we give our animals, build the capacity of our farmers to see how they handle our production and also make sure that our farmers are empowered in such a way that they are also able to meet standards.

 

Madam Speaker, there are certain things that are giving us a big problem. You may be aware that there are some sanitary issues for us to meet the standards and quality that are still an issue in this industry. Hence, the Government is putting many measures in place in order to help our farmers overcome these challenges they are facing in this industry.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, the issue of dairy farmers is very critical. When the hon. Minister talks about standards, what are the standards in terms of the microbiology which is in the milk that is being imported in relation to the milk that our local farmers produce such that the up takers are not able to take it?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the reason I have said the Government needs to come in to help our people graduate or get the capacity to compete with others is that we are trying to look at the production cost. You see, this industry has so many players around. Players in the private sector prefer to import milk from other countries because they feel they are able to make more profit out of it as compared to what they can make from what is produced by our local industry. Hence, we are trying to make sure that we engage even our private partners who are also up takers locally to see to it that our farmers are helped to find the best ways of producing their milk at a lower cost and be able to start competing with other players on the market, especially the local market.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, do we see the Government working together with cooperating partners and availing increased opportunities for smallholder farmers to support the setting up of alternative sources of energy in areas that are off the grid?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member is very right. We are also trying to engage co-operating partners who have shown interest, like the Deutsche Gesellschaft für Internationale Zusammenarbeit (GIZ) in the Southern Province, to exchange and see how it can come on board to assist farmers, especially those who are in rural areas far flung from the national grid. That will be one way to help our farmers to find these facilities to improve on their storage facilities.

 

Madam, we are working around the clock to ensure that private partners can come on board to help the industry for our small-scale farmers.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I want the hon. Minister to line up different measures that are meant to cure the problems in the production and collection of milk after it is produced.

 

Madam Speaker, currently much of the milk that we seem to consume comes from outside. It comes in powdered form and then it is converted into liquid, whatever is happening, anyway. The hon. Minister has confirmed that 34 million litres of milk was wasted. Perusing through Vote 86, which we approved as Parliament, you find that on the output, the allocation does not tally with what the hon. Minister has said and it is not even captured.

 

Madam Speaker, will those new programmes be effected in this Budget lifecycle or maybe we are going to consider a different budget for what he was using to answer the question? What he mentioned is not under output. The only allocation that relates to milk is about K214,000. So, I want to know which budget the hon. Minister will use to achieve those goals.

 

Madam Speaker: I do not know whether the hon. Minister has got the question?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, sometimes, the way the hon. Member for Chilubi designs his questions makes it hard for someone to pick exactly what he is looking for. Maybe, he can put his question clearer. What is he trying to ask?

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about different measures. The question was about the milk which was produced and went to waste. He answered that about 686,109,000 litres of milk was produced and about 34,305,450 litres were wasted.

 

Madam Speaker, in his answer, he lined up certain measures that are planned to cure the situation so that milk may not be wasted. I brought his attention to Vote 86 on the output that from the measures lined up there, only one relates to diary farming.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has lined up a lot of measures that will require a lot of money, but are not clearly captured under the Budget we approved in this House. In short, what I was trying to ask is that which Budget he is going to use. Possibly, he could have some Budget Supplement to handle them. I was asking which budget the hon. Minister is going to use to tackle the factors that he suggested.

 

Has the hon. Minister got the question now? 

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I think the whole essence of the question from the hon. Member for Kanchibiya was what measures the Government is putting in place to help the farmers who do not have storage facilities when they harvest their milk. I have stated very clearly that the Government, in collaboration with its partners, is working around the clock to assist areas, especially rural ones, to start going into solar power system to improve facilities in terms of storage. That is what I was saying.

 

Madam Speaker, in terms of the budget line for the ministry and where we are going to get this other money to help our farmers, we are trying to engage co-operating partners. There is also what we call ‘Supplementary Budget’. This is one of the areas where we can engage the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and ask for a Supplementary Budget to cater for some of these important issues which we feel can add value to the growth of this economy.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

PROCUREMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES AND MOTOR CYCLES FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE IN MWINILUNGA DISTRICT

 

261. Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to procure motor vehicles and motor cycles for the Department of Agriculture in Mwinilunga District to enhance its operations; and
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Mtolo): Madam Speaker, the Government, indeed, has plans to procure motor vehicles and motor cycles for the Department of Agriculture in all districts, including Mwinilunga, to enhance its operations.

 

Madam Speaker, in the 2022 annual Budget, the ministry has allocated funds to procure 100 motor bikes, which will be distributed to various districts across the country. These motor bikes will be procured by the third quarter of this year.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Mwinilunga, do you have a supplementary question?

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the answers.

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu was inaudible.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the Government has plans in this year’s Budget to procure capital transport in vehicles and motor cycles for all districts. How many vehicles per district do we expect in Mwinilunga, Zambezi and other districts, as stated?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Zambezi East, for lack of time, let us restrict the questions to the question relating to Mwinilunga District. If you have a question on Mwinilunga District, it will be allowed. However, if it is on the whole country, maybe the hon. Minister will not be ready for that. Like I encouraged earlier on, hon. Minister of Agriculture, please, make yourself accessible to the hon. Members who want to know how many vehicles and motor cycles you are going to distribute.

 

PROCUREMENT OF FURNITURE FOR HEALTH FACILITIES IN BWANA MKUBWA

 

262. Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to procure furniture for the following health facilities in Bwana Mkubwa Parliamentary Constituency:

 

1. Kantolomba Health Post;

 

1. Chichele Health Post; and

 

1. Mushili Mini Hospital;

 

         b. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

 

        c. what the estimated cost of the furniture for each facility is.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to procure furniture for the said health facilities in Bwana Mkubwa Parliamentary Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to procure furniture for the Kantolomba Health Post and a budgetary allocation will be provided in the 2023 Budget for this activity as it was not budgeted for in the 2022 Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to procure furniture for the Chichele Health Post and a budgetary allocation will be provided in the 2023 Budget for this activity as it was not budgeted for in the 2022 Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to procure furniture for the Mushili Mini Hospital. However, as you may be aware, the Government has plans to upgrade the Mushili Clinic to a Level I hospital in 2022 under a Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) funded project which is likely to be completed in 2023. Therefore, the procurement of furniture will be in 2023 for the fully upgraded hospital.

 

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented under the 2023 Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, the estimated cost for furniture will be more accurately prepared during the planning period in 2022 as the ministry prepares budget plans for 2023.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, do you have any supplementary question?

 

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, I do not have any further question.

 

YOUTH AND WOMEN EMPOWERMENT PROGRAMMES

 

263. Mr Mulunda (Siavonga) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to implement youth and women empowerment programmes in fish farming, countrywide;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
3. what the targeted number of beneficiaries per year is; and
4. if there are no such plans, why.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to implement women and youth empowerment programmes in fish farming countrywide. My ministry is implementing empowerment plans along the aquaculture value chain programmes through projects, some of which are implemented in collaboration with other line ministries. These projects include the Zambia Aquaculture Enterprise Development Project (ZAEDP), the Enhanced Smallholder Agribusiness Promotion Programme (ESAPP) and the Agriculture Productivity Marketing Enhancement Programme (APMEP). An additional project, the Zambia Aquaculture Project (ZAP), supported by the European Union (EU) is expected to commence later this year.

 

Madam Speaker, the ZAEDP, the ESAPP and the APMEP are ongoing and, as earlier mentioned, ZAP will commence later this year.

 

Madam Speaker, this year, my ministry will give direct support to 1,896 youths and 2,040 women beneficiaries across the country through ZAEDP. The hon. Member may also wish to note that from 2018 to 2021, the ministry empowered a total of 8,371 youths and 14,319 women, respectively.

 

Madam Speaker, in view of part (a) above, part (d) falls off.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Livestock and Fisheries for those reasonable answers he has given to this House. I am happy to hear that the Government has been empowering women. Is he in a position to mention the districts or towns that have so far received the empowerment? I ask because in Chienge, we are not aware that there has been such empowerment in terms of aquaculture.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, indeed, the hon. Member wants to know whether Chienge is also going to benefit. As I stated, some of this information was not reaching hon. Members of Parliament for them to know the activities that were taking place. I mentioned that some of these projects are ongoing. They started around 2018 and 2021. The challenge I have discovered in the ministry is that most hon. Members of Parliament were not aware of how these programmes were being implemented, especially with our hon. Colleagues who were there before.

 

Madam Speaker, going forward, I am making arrangements to engage hon. Members. We are going to create a platform where we are going to engage with hon. Members of Parliament and give them the right information on how we are implementing these programmes and the criteria we are putting in place for people to access these funds.

 

Madam, I am yet to communicate with the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly to make sure that I have an opportunity to come and give real information on how we are going to enhance fish farming in this country. The reason most of the hon. Members of Parliament are behind is a lack of information. I can assure the hon. Member that, going forward, the people of Chienge and the women in Chienge will be amongst the beneficiaries of these programmes.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, my main concern is the issue of youth and women empowerment. How will these youth and women empowerment programmes resonate with the Government plans on the youth and women programmes?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I missed the last part. I do not know what the hon. Member said. He was not very clear.

 

Mr Chinkuli: I will come again. My question is: How will these youth and women empowerment programmes resonate with the New Dawn Government plans on youth and women empowerment? How do they assimilate?

 

Madam Speaker: I do not know if the hon. Minister has got the question?

 

Mr Chikote: Yes.

 

Madam Speaker: Proceed to answer, hon. Minister.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, as the New Dawn Government, we are very clear on how we are going to bring our youths on board in terms of empowerment through fish farming. I even stated in my first answer that these programmes for youths and women are even attached to ministries such as the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Arts, the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development and the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare.

 

Madam Speaker, I believe the hon. Member was here when His Excellency the President gave the policy direction in terms of women and youth empowerment. Our Government has seen the potential of our youths and the best way it can help them improve their livelihood is by bringing projects which are deliberately targeted at them. Hence, you will find that in all these ministries I have just mentioned, youths are the first target. It is a deliberate policy which is very clear with the New Dawn Government in order to help our women and the youth.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi) Madam Speaker, firstly, the people of Chilubi would like to demonstrate interest in the question; particularly that they are aquaculture people. I am interested in the statistics that the hon. Minister gave. He said that the ministry, through the Zambia Aquaculture Project (ZAP), will empower 1,886 youths and 2,040 women. I want to find out whether these are groups or just individuals. Also, a breakdown of the distribution per province would do. We just have ten provinces and I think he can break it down per province. For example, how many in the Southern Province, in the Northern Province, and so on and so forth, will benefit. We will be interested to know so that Chilubi can start to prepare for its share for the women and youths in the same numbers.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the first thing is that we are not just going to get youths at random. The first thing we are going to do is build capacity. The other thing is that we have to look at the interest of co-operatives, for instance. We have to identify beneficiaries. After that, they have to be subjected to capacity building for them to venture in the activity or the projects. That way, they are going to improve. It is not just a matter of trying to politick and give empowerment funds anyhow. We have seen that such kinds of models have not added any result to this country. So, the best way we are going to do it is to identify the beneficiaries’ interest and build capacity. When we are satisfied that these are the true beneficiaries, that is when we are going to empower them. It is just the ones that we will identify correctly.

 

Madam Speaker, on the issue of how much the Southern Province will benefit from this and so on and so forth, it is not about provinces, but about the interest and the capacity that we are going to see as the Government.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mulunda: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister for informing us that the previous regime of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government never shared with hon. Members of Parliament. We are not even aware how many were empowered in our constituencies. I have no further question, but to appreciate. I look forward to receiving the statistics on how many were empowered and from where.

 

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, our Standing Order 65 (1) (b) tells us that when you stand on the Floor of this House, you must be factual. Is the hon. Member who has just spoken being factual in saying that information in the previous regime was never shared?

 

Madam Speaker, we have records here at Parliament where ministries such as the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock had workshops. We had sessions in the Amphitheatre where this information was shared. So, for somebody to just come here and try to – and that is the tragedy we have in this country, whereby, somebody comes and they think that –

 

Mr Samakayi: Question!

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kawambwa, do not debate your point of order. I am looking at time.

 

Hon. Member: You never shared anything.

 

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to come here without researching and being factual in the manner that he came on the Floor of this House?

 

Madam Speaker: If the information is already there in Parliament and was shared, then the hon. Member is not in order by alluding to the fact that information was not shared. However, I have no facts whether it was, indeed, shared or not. If, indeed, it was shared, the hon. Member is out of order.

 

Mr Simuzingili (Gweembe): Madam Speaker, indeed, the aquaculture projects are working extremely well and a lot of people have been empowered. After they got the loans and the grants, some of the farmers did not continue because of the high prices of feed. Some cages are now turning into white elephants. Does the Government have any plans to set up aquaculture parks where farmers can easily get feed, cold room facilities and markets for their products?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, indeed, the New Dawn Government, under the leadership of His Excellency the President, attaches great importance to this sector. As I talk to hon. Members, we are constructing the aquaculture parks in this country to support the sector. We are also working around the clock that we start producing feed using local materials to create affordable seed for our farmers to reduce on the high cost of feed. At the same time, we are also trying our level best to engage our co-operating partners to assist us develop the facilities which will help enhance the sector.

 

I thank you, Madam

 

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker, I am aware that there were a lot of cages that were doted around in lakes and rivers to benefit co-operatives. Out of these, some of them were given on partisan lines. Is the hon. Minister going to give this empowerment without segregation like it has been with fertiliser?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I think, the New Dawn Government, under the leadership of his Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, is very clear that no one will be left behind. This is a practical statement that we have already shown to the people of this country. We will not give this empowerment by looking at an individual’s political affiliation. We are going to empower the beneficiaries looking at their capacity to add value to the economic growth of this country. We are not going to follow the same route that others did.

 

Hon. UPND members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chikote: It is the more reason they were voted out. So, we cannot take the same route which the people of Zambia were not happy with. That is why our colleagues now find themselves on the left side of the House.

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chikote: So, we will do the right thing to help the people of Zambia regardless of their political affiliation.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, at the expense of time, we still have to find out certain things from the hon. Minister. He has indicated that he will ensure that this programme is a success, and I know that he has made pronouncements that this is a methodical Government. I want him to put to the nation the order he will ensure that when he gives these funds to women and youths, they are utilised according his wishes. Could he kindly demonstrate how he will ensure that? Many Governments, starting from the United Nation Independence Party (UNIP) up to now have done this empowerment in the past. May he kindly put it to us how he will ensure the programme comes to pass without any failure at the end of it.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, the first intervention that the New Dawn Government is going to put in place, I already mentioned; hon. Members of Parliament will be engaged. We will start with them because they represent these constituencies. They need to understand and have the right information.

 

Madam Speaker, secondly, I also demonstrated that we are not going to give the empowerment funds on partisan lines, but to beneficiaries that have potential. That is one way this Government is going to do it.

 

Madam Speaker, I also said that before we even empower the women and the youth, the first thing is identification and, thereafter, capacity building. We have to give the right capacity to the beneficiaries so that when they are given the empowerment fund, they will not misuse it.

 

In addition, Madam Speaker, extension services have to be provided in these respective areas that we are going to give this empowerment. Extension services are very important because when you just empower and leave these farmers, they will go nowhere. It will just be a story, and more especially, if you attach partisanship. You will start giving the wrong beneficiaries who will go nowhere while misusing Government resources.

 

Madam Speaker, we, as the New Dawn Government, will make sure that all these things I have mentioned are followed through and with systematic monitoring. Just as he said, this New Dawn Government is being very methodical in everything it is doing.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

CONSTRUCTION OF AGRICULTURAL TRAINING CENTRE IN CITAMBO DISTRICT

 

264. Mr Mutale asked the Minister of Agriculture:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct an agricultural training centre in Chitambo District;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, unfortunately, the Government has no immediate plans to construct an agricultural training centre in Chitambo District.

 

Madam Speaker, as in (a) above, there are no immediate plans to construct an agricultural training centre.

 

Madam Speaker, therefore, feasibility studies are being undertaken to check on the practicality of the construction of an agricultural training centre in Chitambo District and other districts. Meanwhile, Chitambo District can utilise training centres in Serenje while the Government is planning to put up a training centre in Chitambo.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, Chitambo is an agricultural district. If utilised well, it can become a bread basket for this country or a food basket if you like. We are now growing rice and wheat, for those who might not know.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said he does not have any plans to construct an agricultural training centre and feasibility studies might be done in the year that we might not know. The problem I have is that the reason Chitambo was created a district was to ensure that services are taken closer to the people. May I know if this notion is being taken away by the Government by the hon. Minister referring us back to Serenje where we were taken away from?

 

Mr Kambita: Question!

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the concerns of the hon. Minister are taken and –

 

Mr Mutale: I am an hon. Member of Parliament not an hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mtolo: Oh, sorry.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mtolo: I am sorry, Madam Speaker, I meant no offence.

 

Madam Speaker: It is okay.

 

Mr Mtolo: The concerns by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo…

 

Rev. Katuta: Prophesy!

 

Mr Mtolo: …are taken very a seriously. However, I just wish to let him know the truth that there are no plans and that, as at now, they can use the nearest training centre. We are trying very hard, Madam Speaker, to put the current training centres in a rather more orderly manner. They are in quite bad shape. So, to start building other training centres when the ones in existence are dilapidated, honestly, does not make sense. However, I take the concerns of the hon. Member.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Samakayi: Bear with us.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chitambo, your microphone is on.

 

Mr Mutale: Yes, Madam Speaker, I have a question.

 

Madam Speaker, Chitambo is a new district and the Government’s considerations show that its wish is for agriculture to become the mainstay of this economy. If we do not invest in agriculture, we will not diversify as a country. Does the hon. Minister not think it important to assure the people of Chitambo that in the next coming Budget in 2022 to 2023, he might consider them on this very important agricultural training centre?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Minister of Agriculture on the 2022 Budget; I thought it was passed already.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mtolo: Madam Speaker, the error is noted. To give an assurance here, the hon. Member is aware that next year, I will be put to task by the Committee on Government Assurances.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

 

Mr Mtolo: I need to be careful what I say as an hon. Minister. As at now, we do not have the studies and we do not have the plan. That is as much as I can say to the hon. Member.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

ELECTRIFICATION OF SCHOOLS IN MULOBEZI PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

 

265. Mr Mabenga (Mulobezi) asked the Minister of Energy:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to electrify the following Schools in Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency:

                                                                                                 

1. Sanembo Primary;

 

1. Kamanga Primary;

 

1. Bwina Secondary; and

 

      b. Nawinda Secondary; and

 

    c. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) has plans to electrify Sanembo and Kamanga primary schools, Bwina and Nawinda secondary schools in Mulobezi Constituency under the Rural Electrification Programme.

 

Madam Speaker, according to the Rural Electrification Master Plan, the electrification schedule for the mentioned schools is as follows:

 

1. Semembo Primary School, Kamanga Primary School and Bwina Secondary School are scheduled for electrification in the year 2027 and will be visited before the end of year 2026 to ascertain the scope of works and the cost of electrification; and
2. Nawinda Secondary School is scheduled for electrification in the year 2030 and will be visited before the end of the year 2029 to ascertain the scope of works and the cost of electrification. According to the Rural Electrification Matter Plan, Sanembo Rural Growth Centre is scheduled for electrification using solar home system technology, while Kamanga, Bwina and Nawinda rural growth centres are scheduled to be connected to the national grid.

 

Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, the Rural Electrification Master Plan was launched in 2008. A lot of factors have changed over time. In this regard, REA will engage all hon. Members of Parliament, through a workshop to be held this month, to development interim measures that can help to electrify schools and surrounding communities, among others, in their constituencies.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the hon. Member of Parliament that the resource envelope for REA is tied to the Rural Electrification Master Plan. Therefore, we need to accelerate electrification of the schools in Mulobezi by utilising the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

 

Madam Speaker, the team from REA is on hand to offer technical support to develop solutions that will adequately address the electrification challenges in Mulobezi Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, according to the Rural Electrification Master Plan, the Rural Electrification Programme requires US$ 50 million per year, to, at least, achieve a 51 per cent electrification rate in rural areas by the year 2030. It should be noted that the Rural Electrification Programme was allocated a budget line of about US$20 million, which is K362 million in 2022. With anticipated growth of the economy, the New Dawn Government will increase the budget allocation to REA.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mabenga (Mulobezi): Madam Speaker, 2030 is too far. What emergency measures is the Government going to put in place to make sure that people in Mulobezi have access to electricity? We have clinics which need medicines. People have various diseases and the medicines need to be in fridges. We also have pupils who have to use computers to learn in schools. Therefore, 2030 is too far. What emergency measures are going to put in place to help the people of Mulobezi?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, fortunately, the New Dawn Government has provided the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to cater for some of these emergency requirements as far as electrification of rural areas is concerned.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, on a lighter note, when the hon. Minister was explaining or answering the question, I was almost thinking that he was actually putting out some world cup fixtures.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, 2030, is quite far, and then, talking about figures, he mentioned that we need about US$ 51 million per annum for the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) programme. What I want to find out from hon. Minister of Energy is that US$51 million seems to be a very small fraction when we look at how much we saved on the subsidies which were gobbling over US$ 800 million.

 

Madam Speaker, now that we have withdrawn those subsidies and are making that much of savings, is it not possible that that case of Mulobezi could now be catered for in a faster way to reduce on those world cup fixtures the hon. Minister has mentioned.

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, it is not 51 per cent but US$ 50 million to achieve at least 51 per cent electrification rate in rural areas. So, if probably this figure was raised to a US$100 million then we would be able to electrify the rural areas by 2030. So, it is not a small task at hand.

 

Madam Speaker, I have said that with the anticipated growth in the Zambian economy, more money will be allocated to this programme so that we can crawl back on the time that the hon. Member calls the world cup fixtures.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chinkuli (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, it is so sad to hear that certain places in Zambia are still struggling with the lack electricity, more so that a school, where we would want to talk about the eradication of poverty, is where it emanates from.

 

Madam Speaker, it was like I was dreaming when I heard the timeframe in which that place will be electrified; 2027 is way too far to the point that I cannot even explain. Can the Government not reconsider bringing the date back than 2027 or 2030, by probably going the solar way whilst we still wait for funds to be availed to us?

 

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I think we need to look at the practicality of electrifying the whole country. This is a huge country which requires enormous resources to electrify our rural areas. I encourage the hon. Member Parliament for Kanyama to attend the workshop that will be organised by REA sometime this month so that he can get more clarification on the issue.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister kindly explain to us in a manner that will benefit the whole nation why the time has been pushed to 2030. Could he kindly do this in a manner that everyone will understand? I am also wondering because there are so many ways in which we can help, like the green energy that we are talking about and so on and so forth.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

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The House adjourned at 1840 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 4^th March, 2022.

 

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