Wednesday, 23^rd February, 2022

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

MEETING BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT OF ZAMBIA AND MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the National Assembly of Zambia has organised a meeting between His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, and all hon. Members of Parliament.

 

The purpose of the meeting is to discuss the role of hon. Members of Parliament and the challenges they encounter in executing their duties. The meeting will be held at the Government Complex on Tuesday, 1^st March, 2022, at 0900 hours. Hon. Members should be seated by 0830 hours.

 

All hon. Members of Parliament are encouraged to attend this very important meeting.

 

Thank you.

 

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MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE

 

MR KATAKWE, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR SOLWEZI EAST, ON THE HON. MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AND LOGISTICS, ON THE RECENT ROAD CARNAGE INCIDENTS IN THE COUNTRY

 

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according the people of Solwezi East an opportunity to raise a matter of urgent public importance.

 

Madam Speaker, in the recent past, we noticed that incidents of road carnage on our public roads increased. If hon. Members recall, the Minister responsible for transport then, Hon. Dr Mushimba, indicated that the Government had signed a number of Statutory Instruments (SIs) to monitor the issue of road carnage. To that effect, there were certain measures that were put in place in the immediate, medium and long term to make sure that our roads became safe.

 

Madam Speaker, if hon. Members have noticed, there has been an increase in the number of accidents on our roads. Nowadays, if you drive at night or around 0100 hours and 0200 hours, you find many trucks moving about. It is like parking at 2200 hours is now voluntary and, as a result, we have seen many incidents of road carnage.

 

Madam Speaker, some of the SIs that were signed were meant to monitor the speed of buses that carried many people and to make sure that the roads were safe.

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics – if I can extend also – and Road Safety in order to sit and not give any update to the nation regarding the many lives that are in danger and dying on our roads?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

 

Madam Speaker: Indeed, the issue that you have raised is of public urgency and requires to be addressed.

 

Just as a general guidance to the way matters are supposed to be dealt with, I think hon. Ministers should take initiative to deliver ministerial statements when issues of serious nature or of this nature happen instead of waiting for hon. Members to raise points of order.

 

I know it is a process; there are still some more ministerial statements coming, but matters of road carnage, I think, are quite high. We have lost a number of people on the road in the recent few days. Therefore, it will be important for the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics to come to this House and just shed light on why these accidents are happening and what measures or steps are being taken to alleviate these problems.

 

So, the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics is directed to come back to this House – I do not know – he is here and maybe he can indicate when he will be available sometime next week, Tuesday or Thursday?

 

The Minister of Transport and Logistics (Mr Tayali): I am most obliged, Madam Speaker. I think that by Thursday, we should be able to come up with a ministerial statement.

 

Madam Speaker: So, the hon. Minister of Transport and Logistics will get back to this honourable House and deliver a ministerial statement on this issue.

 

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

 

INFLATED PRICE OF INTENDED PROCUREMENT OF WATER METERS

 

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to address this august House and the nation at large on the point of order raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena Constituency, Mr Mubita Anakoka, on Friday, 18^th February, 2022, regarding information circulating on social media on the inflated price of the intended procurement of 1,084 prepaid domestic water meters for commercial water utility companies.

 

Madam Speaker, the background to this procurement of water meters is that utility companies have been facing operational challenges resulting in the failure to adequately account and bill customers for water consumed. This is due to a lack of water meters as nearly all new connections are not metered while old meters have outlived their usefulness and become dysfunctional. In addition, water utility companies face the challenge of high non-revenue water, which is the unaccounted for water, most of which is lost to leakages through the old and dilapidated water distribution networks.

 

Therefore, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, under the leadership of President Hakainde Hichilema, through my Ministry of Water Development and Sanitation has set aside funds amounting to K24 million in the 2022 National Budget for the procurement of prepaid and post-paid water meters. These meters are meant to be installed by commercial water utility companies to account for water produced and supplied to customers as one way of addressing high non-revenue water and reduce loss of revenue.

 

Madam Speaker, to this effect, commercial utility companies provided information such as types of water meters, sizes and estimated unit costs required to facilitate the procurement of the meters. Having received the information relating to the specifications of the meters, in November 2021, my ministry invited sealed bids from eligible bidders through the open National Competitive Bidding (NCB) in line with Section 37 of the Public Procurement Act No. 8 of 2020. As such, my ministry floated Tender No. MWDS/GRZ/DWSS/G/012021 broken down in Lots I and II for the supply and delivery of 24,434 post-paid meters and 1,084 prepaid domestic meters for utility companies, respectively.

 

Madam Speaker, on 10^th December, 2021, the tender for the supply and delivery of 1,084 prepaid domestic water meters closed and a total of twenty-six bids were received. Thereafter, my ministry constituted an evaluation committee to evaluate the bids that were received. The Evaluation Committee considered the bids and recommended the best evaluated bidder at a total cost of US$271,526, which is kwacha equivalent of K4,824,881.26.

 

Madam Speaker, the Ministerial Procurement Committee, at its sitting held on 14^th February, 2022, approved the recommendation to award the contract to the best evaluated bidder at a total cost of US$271,526, which is K4,824,881.26 Kwacha equivalent. In accordance with Section 71(1) of the Public Procurement Act No. 8 of 2020, which provides for the notification of the best evaluated bidder, my ministry published the notice of award in the Zambia Daily Mail newspaper, Volume 26, No. 041 of 17^th February, 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to state that in the advertisement for the notification of the award published in the Zambia Daily Mail Newspaper of 17^th February, 2022, an amount of US$271,824,881.26 was erroneously quoted instead of the amount of US$271,526, which is the correct price. After realising that the advertisement for the notification of the award was erroneous, my ministry brought that to the attention of the management of the Zambia Daily Mail which resulted in the cancellation of the said advertisement. Further, the corrected advertisement was published in the Zambia Daily Mail, Volume 26, No. 042 of Friday, 18^th February, 2022, bearing the correct contract amount of US$271,526.

 

Madam Speaker, preliminary investigations have since revealed that an officer wrongly sent the advertisement with wrong figures bearing the said amount of US$271,824, 881.26 instead of US$271,526.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to assure this House that my ministry has since commenced the process of laying the appropriate charges against the officers involved in negligently carrying out this assignment. In the same vein, my ministry has strengthened the existing procedures to ensure that exchange of information and correspondence between my ministry and its stakeholders pass through the necessary controls and quality assurance. Furthermore, my ministry will tighten the existing rules to ensure responsible officers carry out their supervisory roles effectively and efficiently. This is in order to avert the situation which manifested itself regarding the matter at hand.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to further urge hon. Members of this august House, as well as members of the public, to contact my ministry for any further clarification on this matter and, indeed, on any issues regarding the ongoing and further projects at my ministry.

 

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, let me assure the nation that my ministry will ensure that this unfortunate event does not recur at all and, indeed, similar ones do not occur. My ministry remains committed to ensuring that members of staff abide by the principles and core values of the New Dawn Administration under the leadership of the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

 

Madam Speaker, in line with the tenets of the Public Service, which include excellence in the execution of duties, my ministry will also ensure that members of staff adhere to the set guidelines on procurement, which include high quality, correct price and timely delivery.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

                                                                

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

 

Mr B. Mpundu (Nkana): Madam Speaker, before I ask my question, is there no Coronavirus Disease 2019 (Covid -19) on that bench? The hon. Ministers seem to be fully packed in front.

 

Madam Speaker, misinformation has set countries at war and so, every misinformation must quickly be addressed.

 

Madam Speaker, I know that the Government does not respond to social media stories, but we all agree here that social media has set the discourse for our days in this country.

 

Madam Speaker, is there no way that, through the Government spokesperson, when such misinformation gets to the public, it can easily be addressed quickly unlike the passage of time we have had such that the whole country goes into a speculative mode, as we have witnessed over this matter?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I agree that misinformation can actually cause problems not only for institutions, but also for the country. You may wish to note, Madam Speaker, that there was no passage of time. The moment my ministry realised that there was misinformation which had gone out through that error, like I did indicate in my ministerial statement, it reached out to the Zambia Daily Mail to cause the cancellation of that advertisement and place the correct one which was run the following day. So, from that action alone, it could be seen that the ministry was reaching out to the public with the corrected version of the advert. You cure such problems in many ways; obviously, what the hon. Member of Parliament proposed is one of the ways. Our ministry took remedial measures by issuing a corrected version.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, considering that in the short period that the New Dawn Government has been in power, we have had over-priced procurement of services such as the Alpha Fertilizer scam, could the Government be in a position to allow hon. Members of Parliament or the Hon. Madam Speaker to set up a committee to check the biding process to see whether there was a genuine error or the excuses arose because of the outcry from the people on the over-pricing? Is it in a position to accept that we scrutinise the biding processes since we will know from there how many bid and how much they bid so that we get the correct position and clear the perception that has been created in the minds of our people?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, the issue at hand was purely a very unfortunate incident. It was purely an error. My ministry, like all ministries, has been urged by His Excellency the Republican President to be as transparent as it can be. There is nothing that we seek to hide as a ministry and, therefore, welcome any legitimately established team to go through this particular transaction. I can assure this House and the country at large that there was no malice intended in this whole transaction other than an officer who erred in the posting of the figures.

 

Madam Speaker, let me say this: that from the figures I mentioned, the kwacha and the US dollar figures, you will see that what created this error was that an officer, in a very negligent manner, transposed some figures from the kwacha amount into the dollar amount and sent this advert without having cleared it with the superiors at the ministry. That is what caused that problem. Otherwise, Madam Speaker, there was no malice intended in this transaction.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his statement. However, I am very concerned and worried about these erroneous issues that are happening in these ministries. Yesterday, it was in the Ministry of Health where we saw some medicines that were not supposed to be given out sent out, and, unfortunately, some of them were consumed.

 

Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think that what he is calling errors may not really be errors, but could be deliberate moves by some people who are trying to fight the policies of the New Dawn Administration, especially those who are aligned to the fallen regime of the Patriotic Front (PF)? Does he not think that, maybe, it is time we tried to do something about this issue in terms of cleaning up the system?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, it is possible; very much possible, particularly that not too long ago, one of the political leaders did announce that he would bring down this Government because he left many people in these systems.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I have no doubt and I cannot doubt that there is a huge possibility that what we are seeing to be an error could be the work of those people who are not happy with the progress we are making as the New Dawn Government.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I want to assure hon. Members that no stone will be left unturned to make sure that we get to the bottom of this matter, not only in my ministry, but also in others. I think it is also a lesson to the many ministries to ensure that they watch and look out for those who could have been planted to ensure that they bring down this Government.

 

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

There is a request for a point of order by the hon. Member for Solwezi East. Hon. Member, what is the point of order?

 

Mr Katakwe: I am sorry, Madam Speaker. I think it was just an error. I accidentally touched on the microphone.

 

Laughter

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Chitotela (Pambashe): Madam Speaker, the Ministerial Procurement Committee (MPC) is headed by a Permanent Secretary (PS) appointed by His Excellency the President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, and the practice is that any document that goes out must be signed by the PS.

 

Madam Speaker, I was at pains after I saw that leakage. Hon. Mutati should remember that we did review the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) Act and the price index. After there was the leakage and a clarification, I went and checked on the market. The price of a water meter is ranging between US$25 and US$50.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

 

Mr Chitotela: I have done that research and I have a document.

 

Is the hon. Minister justifying US$250 per 1 inch pre-paid water meter as living by the statement of the President of the right price, right quantity and delivery at the right time? Is this also in accordance with the ZPPA Act that mandates the procurement officers to do a market price benchmarking? The market price benchmarking in Zambia is between US$30 to US$50 per meter. You go and procure at US$250 per meter and you say it is within the range?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I wish the hon. Member of Parliament had provided us with empirical evidence of his research. Merely going on Google to check for the price of an item, which we do not know where it is, whether it is in Malaysia or China, and then come here and say the price is US$25 would not be the correct way of doing things, particularly for a former hon. Minister.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mposha: We need to understand that there are a lot of factors that we take into account. That is my answer.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation a question. I thank him very much for that ministerial statement.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has admitted that it was an error and that disciplinary charges have been levelled against those officers. I want assurance from the hon. Minister that those officials are going to receive a fair hearing. If you always go for punitive action, you may end up instilling fear in the Civil Service and people may stop working. It is the general public that is going to suffer. So, I want assurance especially that I come from the trade union background, that these workers will be given a fair hearing.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I want to assure my brother, Hon. Mtayachalo, that the officers will receive a very fair hearing. I think what we want to address here is that procedures must be followed to the letter and that what has happened must never happen again. It is not just to punish individuals.

 

So, through his question, I want to just assure all the officers, including those who could be close to the officers involved in this error, that they will be given a very fair hearing. After we correct this, we must work together to ensure that we deliver to the best of our ability for this country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, my question relates to the question that was posed by Hon. Chitotela. I wish to state, firstly, that when hon. Members of Parliament ask questions, they ask on behalf of the Zambian people. It is expected that the hon. Ministers who answer these questions take them with the seriousness that they deserve. We do not expect hon. Ministers to trivialise them in their responses.

 

Madam Speaker, the question posed by Hon. Chitotela relates to the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) Act. Under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, we amended that Act for one reason. There were a number of challenges in public procurement which related to over-pricing. In this particular case, what we expect from the hon. Minister is for him to inform the House that the prices upon which these meters were procured were within the price index or range that is published by the ZPPA, in line with the Act. To respond in the manner that he did, I think, is not correct because he needs to clear the minds of the Zambian people that there was no overpricing in that particular tender.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I know there are reactions, but we are here to represent the Zambian people, especially that the President made an assurance that, first of all, he would ensure that public procurement will be within a good price range and quality, among others. So we expect the hon. Minister to tell this House that, yes, he checked these prices and they were in conformity with or within the range that is provided by the ZPPA.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I am very grateful for that question from the Leader of the Opposition. Let me state that I am in no way trying to trivialise the questions that are coming on the Floor as I am alive to the fact that all hon. Members of Parliament are here to represent the people of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, in my ministerial statement, I did state that before the process through the Evaluation Committee and later the Ministerial Procurement Committee (MPC) was undertaken, we did receive submissions from the utility companies to indicate the specifications of the meters and, to some extent, to also give us a rough idea of the prices involved.

 

Madam Speaker, in my ministerial statement, I was correcting the impression which was created that we were buying one pre-paid meter at US$250,000. When you multiply that by 1,084, that is what was giving us the erroneous figure of over US$271 million, which was not correct and I explained what led to this error. To that effect, we have directed that we have a total overhaul of the ministry’s system in the communication process also ensuring that once the Evaluation Committee and the Ministerial Procurement Committee finish their work, before we communicate to the public out there, we should ensure that proper clearance is given by senior officers.

 

Madam Speaker, on the question which was earlier raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Pambashe to suggest that one meter is costing US$25, what I said was that I wished I had been given clear evidence to suggest that on the market, that is the prevailing price for the meter. I know that there is temptation, like I said earlier, of merely going on the Internet to just Google the meters and begin to pick the price at which certain people are offering them.

 

Meters are very sensitive gadgets. We need to ensure we get good meters which will give us correct readings so that we are able to bill our people correctly. We also need to establish a very reliable source. It is one thing to just say a meter is US$15 or US$25, but another to know where that meter is. The hon. Member has not factored in a number of things at the point where that meter would have been delivered to its destination. So, it is a process. There are a lot of things that you have to look at. It will be wrong for us to look at just that single amount at the source, which in my view is not properly known.

 

Madam Speaker, the Evaluation Committee and the Ministerial Procurement Committee did their work diligently. Unfortunately, just at the point of transmitting the instructions for the advert; we had that very unfortunate error.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker

 

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the point of order relates to the answer I received. According to Standing Order No. 165, we come here to ask questions, and we expect hon. Ministers to answer them and not the comments that come with the question.

 

Madam Speaker, my question was: If you divide US$274,000 plus by 1,080 meters, the answer is US$253 per meter. Maybe the hon. Minister picked the comments I raised. My statement was: Is this US$253 per meter the market price as relates to the Zambia Public Procurement Act which provides market indicative prices? Is this one meter at 1 inch costing US$253 in Zambia today? That is what I asked. He should not tell me that I googled the price on the Internet. This question is in relation to the Act that prescribes the indicative price.

 

Madam Speaker: From what I heard, the hon. Minister attempted to answer the question. If the hon. Member for Pambashe has extra information, maybe, I will suggest that he goes to see the hon. Minister and provide him with that information. Once that information is provided, it will be for the good of the country. So, there is no harm in hon. Members who have information going to see the hon. Minister. The hon. Minister said that he is open to people going to see him. So, there is nothing to inhibit the hon. Member for Pambashe from visiting the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation so that he can have those concerns addressed.

 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his detailed and concise ministerial statement.

 

Madam Speaker, that project suggests that the Government is now moving a notch higher by installing prepaid meters. It means that the project will cover the whole country. Can the hon. Minister take this opportunity to inform the nation, if that is the case, that it should look forward to adverts for the supply of prepaid meters for all the provinces, and that if that happens, it will not be one supplier and contractor going around the whole country, but different contractors contracted to do this job in different provinces to spread the national cake?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I assure the hon. Member of Parliament and this august House that the procurement of meters is not just a one-off thing. Like I said in my ministerial statement, we have been losing a lot of water due to many factors. One of them is that we have quite a good number of customers who are on fixed charge and, because of that; we lose a lot of water. We also have been registering high levels of non revenue water; water which is just lost through the dilapidated infrastructure or water network.

 

So, what we are trying to do is to continuously procure meters so that we address the issue of fair billing. We want people to pay based on consumption. We are trying to have more customers migrate from fixed to metered billing so that we can have a fair way of collecting revenue, but also ensuring fairness on the side of the people who are paying those bills.

 

Madam, as to whether we shall have one and the same contractor to supply, those are the issues we are trying to move away from as the New Dawn Government where supplying is based on cartels. For us, and speaking for my ministry, we shall ensure that there is transparency in the awarding of contracts so that those who are able to bid, give the correct price and meet the correct specifications should be awarded the contracts.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: I will just take two more questions. We have spent a lot of time on this matter.

 

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his responses and welcome him to the club of civil servants letting down politicians; it is only the beginning.

 

Madam, that said, my question is: the prepaid meters, will they be in all households? Is it kaufela or is he targeting the well to do residential areas? For areas like Matero, where there is no water anyway, does he not think the prepaid meter system will be a waste of investment?

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Matero, the word ‘kaufela’, what does it mean?

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, ‘kaufela’ means everyone, I think.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, the procurement of those meters and, eventually, their installation is meant for various households and not only the high class areas. Like I said, we want to migrate as many customers as possible from the fixed to the pre-paid system.

 

Madam Speaker, let me also take this opportunity to say that it is not correct that there is completely no water in Matero. I can assure you, Madam Speaker and the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero, that just last week, I did send a team from my ministry and the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company (LWSC) to go round the city to check on what is happening in terms of water supply, and Matero was one of the areas we visited. Unlike what obtained in the past, there is a significant improvement in terms of water supply in Matero Constituency. So, I can only urge the hon. Member of Parliament to probably just have an in-depth check in his constituency. He will see that the feedback we received from the customers is that there is a significant improvement in the supply of water.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I appreciate this opportunity to pose a question to the hon. Minister. I want to assure him that systems are inherited, just as we inherited those that were left by Hon. Dr Musokotwane and his team. It is the same system.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kampyongo:  My dear brother should just provide leadership.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the ministry procured water meters on behalf of commercial utility companies. I am sure he knows that our Government, just as theirs is doing, invested so much in trying to capacitate water utility companies. Now, these are commercial water utility companies that are operating as business entities; is it the Government’s desire –

 

Hon. Member interjected.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Can you shut up, new entrant you.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Shiwang’andu, you are an Opposition Whip. Please, can we observe some decorum? Can you withdraw that expression?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I withdraw, but the running commentaries are getting out of hand and I think we need to be protected when we are posing questions.

 

Madam Speaker: Can we remain silent as the hon. Member is asking a question.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I was trying to ask the hon. Minister that knowing that those utility companies are well established, with procurement entities that have technical staff competent enough to prescribe equipment which they need to use depending on what they want to embark on, is it the desire of the ministry or the Government to continue doing business on their behalf when they are business entities well established to undertake any procurement of any magnitude?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank my dear brother, Hon. Kampyongo, for that question. Let me say that the utility companies face a number of challenges.

 

Madam Speaker, you may wish to note the background; if we just picked a few of them on the Copperbelt, you would know that most of our people there used to benefit from the good will of the mines and used to receive water for free. Now that those residents have to pay for water, most of them fail to pay for this commodity. As such, the balance sheets for most of these utility companies are not so good. I can avail this information to my dear brother. It is wrong to say that they are sound and profitable companies that can stand on their own. I think they still have to rely on the Government to assist them from time to time, not only in terms of meters, but also with chemicals for treating water so that our people can receive quality service.

 

Madam Speaker, it is, indeed, the desire of our ministry to continue assisting utility companies. In any case, Madam Speaker, this is money which this House approved in the Budget under my ministry. We did bring to the Floor of this House, indicating that this allocation is meant for assisting utility companies for procurement of meters, which in the long term will see to it that we provide quality service to our people. So, it is the desire of the ministry to ensure that it continues to assist utility companies from time to time.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

REPEAL OF THE LAW RELATING TO BIGAMY IN THE PENAL CODE, CHAPTER 87 OF THE LAWS OF ZAMBIA

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to issue a ministerial statement on the recommendation by the Zambia Law Development Commission to repeal the provision relating to bigamy under the Penal Code, Chapter 87 of the Laws of Zambia.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, this topic has garnered a lot of debate across the country and the discussions and comments on the matter have necessitated this ministerial statement as the Penal Code falls under the Ministry of Justice.

 

Madam Speaker, the crux of the matter is whether the law relating to bigamy will be proposed for repeal when the Penal Code is reviewed.

 

Madam Speaker, from the outset, it should be noted that the Zambia Law Development Commission is an independent corporate body established under the Zambia Law Development Commission Act, Chapter 32 of the Laws of Zambia. The functions of the Zambia Law Development Commission under Section 4 of the Act are, among others, as follows:

 

1. to recommend the revision and reform of the law in Zambia;
2. to recommend the codification of the unwritten laws in Zambia;
3. review and consider proposals for law reform referred to the Commission by the hon. Minister or members of the public;
4. hold seminars and conferences on legal issues;
5. translate any piece of legislation into local languages;
6. encourage international cooperation in the performance of its functions under the Act; and
7. do all such things incidental or conducive to the attainment of the functions of the Commission.

 

Madam Speaker, pursuant to the Commissions’ functions, the Government, in 2011, appointed a Technical Committee led by Hon. Justice Chalwe Mchenga in collaboration with the Zambia Law Development Commission to review the Penal Code Act, Chapter 87 and the Criminal Procedure Code Act, Chapter 88 of the Laws of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, a report of the said Committee has since been submitted to the Ministry of Justice. The report has highlighted on page 35 that a person may be charged under Section 166 of the Penal Code for the same conduct and offence of bigamy, similar to that provided under Section 38 of the Marriage Act, Chapter 50 of the Laws of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, for clarity, Section 38 of the Marriage Act provides as follows:

 

         Any person who –

 

1. contracts a marriage under this Act, being at the time married in accordance with African customary law to any person other than the person with whom such marriage is contracted;
2. having contracted a marriage under this Act, during the continuance of such marriage contracts a marriage in accordance with African customary law;

 

shall be guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to imprisonment for a period not exceeding five years:

 

Provided that this section shall not extend to any person who contracts a marriage during the life of a former husband or wife, if such husband or wife, at the time of the subsequent marriage, shall have been continually absent from such person for a space of seven years, and shall not have been heard of by such person as being alive within that time.

 

Madam Speaker, for the sake of brevity, suffice it to say that Section 166 of the Penal Code has similar provisions.

 

Madam Speaker, it is on this premise that the Committee recommended on page 44 of the report that the offence of bigamy be repealed from the Penal Code to avoid duplicity of offences in the statute book as the statute book is read as one. Therefore, if the offence of bigamy was repealed under the penal code, it would remain an offence under the Marriage Act.

 

Madam Speaker, it will be seen, therefore, that rather that the speculation among members of the public and stakeholders in general that the New Dawn Government has taken a position on polygamy in Zambia, all that has been done is a recommendation to clear up the statute book. Even then, an appropriate Committee of the House will take views of all stakeholders, in the event that such an amendment comes before the House for consideration. Nothing is final, therefore, at this stage.

 

Madam Speaker, the above notwithstanding, the repeal of the provision relating to bigamy under the Penal Code remains a recommendation and this is to avoid duplicity on the statute book. The recommendation must be considered by Cabinet through the internal legislative processes before it is submitted to this House for enactment.

 

Madam Speaker, ultimately, the decision lies with the Zambian people through their representatives in this august House on whether to repeal the offence of bigamy under the Penal Code once all the legislative processes are conducted and a proposed amendment Bill is tabled before this honourable House.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

 

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, I heard a statement from one of our fellow hon. Members that sometimes, as the Government, we inherit policies or processes. So, may I find out from the hon. Minister of Justice when this report was done and why it is being acted on now. Was it received in the previous Government or it has just been received now?

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, as elaborated in my statement, which I have just read on the Floor of the House, the instruction was initially given by the hon. Minister of Justice, the Late George Kunda, as he then was, in 2011. It has taken eleven years for this review to be undertaken, if I have my mathematics correctly, and the report was only submitted to me a week ago. Therefore, the work of the Committee has just been concluded.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I know I am an hon. Member of Parliament, but now, I want my brother, the hon. Minister of Justice to listen from me. I am speaking as an elder bearing in mind that I have an elder in State House.

 

Madam Speaker, there are three controversial issues that have been raised by the Committee. The first one is bigamy; the second one is abortion, and we, Adventists, believe that life begins at conception; and the third one is “thou shall not murder.”

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Chitotela: Thou shall not murder.

 

Madam Speaker, is it the hon. Minister’s considered view that these three proposals, which I know are against our belief and that of the President in State House, will even be considered to be subjected to Cabinet discussion?

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I think there is one thing that needs to be made clear. My colleague, the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation hinted at this; it is within the Standing Orders. When an allegation as to what is contained in a particular piece of evidence that is referred to by an hon. Member is made, that Member is expected to lay the document on the Table. In this instance, the hon. Member for Pambashe, with due respect, appears to have gotten into some speculation.

 

Madam Speaker, to start with, let us remember that this process was not begun by the New Dawn Government. It was begun well before we took office. Ours is to see the process completed in accordance with the policy direction that we have taken. Therefore, any step that we will take, going forward, in light of the recommendations that have been received will align to the norms and practices that we believe in as the New Dawn Government, and which the people of Zambia naturally believe in as well.

 

Madam Speaker, it is a people driven process and what the hon. Member for Pambashe should note is that all we have received are recommendations. These recommendations came from a cross section of society and stakeholders. We all know, as hon. Members in this House, that nobody is bound by a recommendation.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Haimbe: It is for a process to be undertaken which interrogates what the will of the Zambian people will be, going forward, in the review of a particular piece of legislation.

 

Madam Speaker, there has been no mention of abortion laws in the manner suggested by the hon. Member for Pambashe. Again, it is a phenomenon of social media that certain aspects of this report are being painted in a particular light. This is why I felt it important to give this clarification on the Floor of the House. I think, more importantly, hon. Members should focus on the positive provisions that have been suggested in the report, among them, the removal of the defamation of the President and other insult laws.

 

Madam Speaker, those are low hanging fruits which, by their nature, will benefit those on your left hand side. Those are the things that we should focus on as hon. Members and enlighten the people of Zambia that the New Dawn Government is working towards increasing their freedoms as enjoyed under any administration.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for clarifying this matter. There had been quite a bit of premature jubilation among Mr Nguzu’s relatives down south. I am happy the matter has been put to rest.

 

Hon. Members: Question!

 

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, –

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, in clarifying that this is merely cleaning the statute book, can the hon. Minister indicate whether, in the contemplated clearing of the statute book, there is a possibility that marriages under the Marriage Act can also take place outside community of property?

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Luena for that question. I also thank him for those clarifying points as he was asking the question. However, I may need to seek clarification as to what he means when he says that these marriages should take place outside common property. I think there is a need, for the benefit of the people of Zambia out there that are observing these proceedings, that a less technical term be used.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Luena, do you have a less complicated term that you can use to describe community of property.

 

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, given that the matter will still come before the House, I am sure we will debate it at length at that point.

 

Madam Speaker: Very technical.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister for coming to clarify these matters, but I want him to know that he should have used another avenue because he is the Chairperson of the Cabinet Legislation Committee and the Internal Legislation Committee. This process is still ongoing and this is a matter that will end up here for detailed debate at an appropriate time. So, going into the debate now will be premature because we are a legislature. We legislate. The hon. Minister will have to do the processes up to the Cabinet and then come here with a proposed Bill on these matters. So, we are constrained to go into details in debating those matters. However, may I just find out why these few components from the report got out to the public before the hon. Minister got on with the processes? What could have happened?

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament and Deputy Whip for that important observation.

 

Madam Speaker: He is the Whip for the Opposition.

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I do apologise and, please, may the Whip forgive me.

 

Madam Speaker, the very essence of my coming before the House to make a clarification is what the hon. Member is talking about. We have developed a culture in this country of wanting to speak about and dramatise matters which we have basically no reason to do.

 

Madam Speaker, to answer the hon. Member, firstly, the report is in the public domain. It is not a secret report and is available for anybody to download from the website of the Zambia Law Development Commission. However, I fear that what could have happened is that some members of the public took a tuck to what is contained in the report without allowing the technocrats and professionals who are trained in these aspects to explain it to them and to deal with it in accordance with what the hon. Member has talked about, the internal legislative process.

 

Madam Speaker, in keeping, also, with the advice that was given earlier that we must be quick to respond to public concerns and matters of public interest, we felt the need to bring this matter, once and for all, on the Floor of the House. This way, the public is informed and we make clarifications. We can also peacefully undertake the internal legislative process and further consultation with stakeholders in accordance with what ought to follow in the legislative process.

 

Madam Speaker, this is simply to show that as the New Dawn Government, we are responsive to the concerns of the people of Zambia whenever an issue of this nature arises. It is my hope and prayer that, going forward, this issue will be laid to rest and the people of Zambia will allow us in this august House and on your right side to do the correct legislation formation processes and they can wait for the outcome.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I think about four or five days ago, the Zambia Daily Mail Newspaper published a story headlined ‘Parley to Table Bigamy Bill.’ That is a National Newspaper. Allow me to bring a copy of the Zambia Daily Mail Newspaper tomorrow where the article was published. I thought I had it.

 

Ms Kasanda: It is a PF Newspaper!

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Order, order! Let us allow the hon. Member to ask.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I am concerned that a State newspaper published this story. Now, the hon. Minister is telling this august House and the public that this is just a proposal from the Zambia Law Development Commission. Why did he not respond immediately, as a member of the Executive, to the article which was written in the Zambia Daily Mail Newspaper? My question, based on the proposal, is why, in the interest of the nation, would the Government want to lessen the punishment for bigamy?

 

Madam Speaker: Honourable –

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, let me just repeat. Why did the Executive not question the Zambia Daily Mail Newspaper on the article it published to make the nation believe that that was now in the hands of the Executive and it is what it intended to do? It was written, ‘Parley to Table Bigamy Bill.’

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I am concerned by the content of the debate of the hon. Member who has just spoken. To start with, there is a suggestion that for some reason, the Executive should curtail press freedom. That, we will not do. We believe in the rule of law and freedom of expression, ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Haimbe: ... freedom of the media. The suggestion that we should have curtailed the Zambia Daily Mail Newspaper falls foul of the clear provisions of the law, which guarantee press freedom.

 

Madam Speaker, if the suggestion is that I should have solicited for an interview from the Zambia Daily Mail Newspaper, it is equally offside. The duty of a free and responsible media is to take the views of stakeholder before it goes out and publishes any document. I cannot answer for the Zambia Daily Mail Newspaper as to why they did not approach me for an interview to clarify these reports.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Correct!

 

Mr Haimbe: That is for the Zambia Daily Mail Newspaper to answer suffice it to say that with free media, we allow them to publish what they must. It is for us as a community, a people and a country to curtail such behaviour by the press. It is actually becoming too common for our liking as a people. The sooner we start to speak out and ask them these important questions the better.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mulebwa (Kafulafuta): Madam Speaker, I think that this House knows exactly what Zambia is identified with. Zambia is known to be a Christian nation worldwide. I am wondering why we have to clarify this matter when we are a Christian nation which should live by Christian principles. Are we pretending to be a Christian nation when, in fact, not? Are we slowly eroding the Christian status of this nation to something else, as we have witnessed? I know we cannot say the religious desk has been abolished –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kafulafuta, please, ask your question. We are not getting there yet.

 

Mr Mulebwa: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

 

My question to the hon. Minister is: is there any need for us to clarify this matter when we are known to be a Christian nation?

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, the need to clarify on the part of the Ministry of Justice on behalf the Executive has arisen from mischievous activity from some of our citizens in, especially, the social media realm where it has been suggested that, for some reason, the New Dawn Government wants to depart from the very norms that the hon. Member has spoken about. My statement is merely to make it clear to the people of Zambia that there is no such departure from the norms that we have observed, followed and respected, including our own customary norms which are already codified in the Marriage Act and the Penal Code.

 

Madam Speaker, to answer the question in a simpler fashion, if we all behaved responsibly as a citizenry and said these matters as they are on social media where we have so much freedom, there would be no need for that clarification. However, there is a cadre of less responsible citizens who have tried to paint a picture to the general public which has generated a debate that the New Dawn Government wants to change the norms by which we have been used to living all these years. The purpose is to clarify and say that we are not doing that as the New Dawn Government. Simply cleaning the statute book cannot be equated to running away from our norms, which we have followed from time immemorial. This is the opportunity to speak to the people of Zambia.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, it is sad that we have spent another two hours debating malice. The article that was in the newspaper against the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation was a malicious article and the same applies to this one.

 

Madam, having given the freedom for –

 

Mr B. Mpundu: Malicious how?

 

Mr Mabeta: The misrepresentation of facts.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, can you, please, ask the question. We do not have a lot of time on our hands.

 

Mr Mabeta: Madam Speaker, I am sorry. I was disturbed (laughs)

 

Madam, in this newly found media freedom, the Government needs to come up with procedures to help the media avoid diverting from the sole purpose of delivering information to our people. How far we are going to go in this trend of spending time responding to malice?

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, all I can say in response to that concern is that the supreme law of the land itself, the Constitution, clearly provides that one’s freedom ends where that of another begins. At some point, the people of Zambia will themselves self regulate and will understand that: where I begin to infringe on someone else’s freedom, I begin to violate the Constitution and the freedoms of that other person. The sooner that happens, the better and it is through this engagement that, perhaps, people will begin to understand that these activities and actions are not acceptable.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, may I say, from the outset, that if there will be one person left to be monogamous, it will be me. That said, the topic is on the Table. There was a report in the media that a reverend from Chienge wanted to propose that polygamy by females should be allowed as well. Is it too late to submit that proposal, where, if men are allowed then women should also be allowed to be in polygamous marriages? That came from a reverend in Chienge.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Since it is a comment and a reaction to social media, which is also being promoted by some of our hon. Members, we will leave it at that.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Chama South.

 

Mr Mung’andu was inaudible

 

Madam Speaker: The question from the hon. Member for Chilubi will be the last one.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, if I followed what the hon. Minister said in his ministerial statement, he implied that the recommendations were meant to avoid duplicity because the same provision appears in both the Penal Code and Cap. 50 of the Laws of Zambia, which deals with marriages.

 

Madam Speaker, this was a social media debate that we are responding to. Is the Government confirming the position that the recommendation is merely to avoid duplicity of the two laws because they were appearing on both the Penal Code and Cap. 50?

 

Madam Speaker, the Zambian people presumed that the process of arriving at a law, at the end of the day, will end up being in Parliament because according to –

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Fube: I forgive you –

 

At the end of the day will wind up in Parliament because according to Article –

 

Madam Speaker: Order.

 

May the hon. Members on the right give chance to the hon. Member for Chilubi to ask his question. Hon. Member for Chilubi, please, do not take your time. Ask your question directly. Do not debate.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, this only affects the people on the left. It does not affect them.

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

 

Mr Fube: Anyway, I submit.

 

Madam Speaker: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for that summary of the whole debate.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, the law is intended to apply to all Zambians and not only those on the left or the right, as the case may be. Indeed, as guided by Madam Speaker, the issue is that the recommendation was only to clean up the statute book and not any other purpose.

 

Madam, with that, I seek leave to submit or lay on the Table of the House the Executive summary of the report by the Zambia Law Development Commission as well as the hundred and something page report itself.

 

Madam Speaker: You may proceed, hon. Minister.

 

Mr Haimbe laid the paper on the Table.

 

Madam Speaker: Let us make some progress.

 

_______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker. I am I audible?

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Yes, you are audible, but I see a persistent point of order being requested by the hon. Member for Chama South.

 

Hon. Member for Chama South, you were called upon earlier on to ask a question, but you were not responsive. Was it a technical fault or what?

 

Mr Mung’andu: Yes, Madam Speaker. No wonder I am raising this point of order.

 

The Information Communication Technology (IT) Department was not unmuting me. This is the second or third time that it is doing that. You know that in this House, according to the rules, we are allowed to sit virtually.

 

Madam, I want to request that in an event that the ICT department does not unmute a Member, that Member should be given an opportunity at a time when he/she has been unmuted.

 

Madam, I had a very important follow-up question to do with bigamy. One hon. Member said the Nguzus in the Southern region are celebrating when we know that we equally have the Mondes and many others who are looking forward to that so that they can come to the Southern Province.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: So, I wanted to make a serious –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, your point of order has been noted. I think it was a technical problem that you encountered because you only joined with your video on while your audio was off. As hon. Members attempt to join, they should also have their audio on so that they are audible. However, I tender sincere apologies for skipping you, but the train has moved.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

 

REHABILITATION OF FEEDER ROADS IN BWANA MKUBWA

 

190. Mr Mwambazi (Bwana Mkubwa) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the following feeder roads in Bwana Mkubwa Parliamentary Constituency:

 

1. Kavu;

 

1. Chichele;

 

1. Mwange B;

 

1. Munkulungwe

 

1. Kamuchanga;

 

1. Mitalula;

 

1. Mushili; and

 

1. Kaloko; and

 

b. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

 

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation works on three of the listed roads have already commenced and these are Kavu, Chichele and Munkulungwe. Works on the remaining roads, which are Kamuchanga, Mitalula, Mushili and Kaloko are yet to commence.

Madam Speaker, the ministry will consider the remaining roads in the 2024 to 2027 work plans and budget period, subject to the availability of money.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether the other roads which he has not mentioned are catered for in the budget. Could he be kind enough to bring to this House a schedule of those roads that have been earmarked for rehabilitation this year under his budget?

 

Madam Speaker: The only challenge that I see there is that the question is being extended or expanded to the whole country. The hon. Minister was prepared to answer question No. 190 under (a). So, he is now being taken by surprise. Could the hon. Member for Zambezi East put in a separate question if he wants the hon. Minister to produce a schedule? However, with regard to the question of whether or not these roads, which are already under question 190, are in the Budget, the hon. Minister may answer that question.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, with pleasure. I can bring the entire schedule of feeder road works in the whole country as and when requested to. Unfortunately, this time, we will deliver it together with a comprehensive statement arising from the audit report that we received from the independent engineer that we contracted to assist us determine the scope of works, the percentages and the levels at which each of those contracts had reached.

 

Madam Speaker, in terms of the Bwana Mkubwa roads, I said that the Kavu Road was work in progress and I can confirm to the House that the physical progress on this road stands at 30 per cent, leaving 70 per cent to go. The Twapia/Chichele Road, which is being done by a company called Cecil Charms Limited, is only at 11 per cent progress. The Munkulungwe Road which starts from Ndola through Masaiti District is being undertaken by a company called Exoline Limited, and the physical progress is 25 per cent.

 

Madam Speaker, I chose to give these percentages in order for the hon. Member who asked, to understand that only these three are on the work plan from four years ago. In terms of this particular year, we have not contracted any new contractors because of the debt burden on existing contracts. So, we would like to clean up all outstanding amounts subject to the verification of work having been done before we embark on burdening our treasury with more contracts.

 

Madam Speaker, as I said in the past, the trouble that we were facing was that there was over procurements of these roads which exceeded the budget by over 2000 per cent.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwambazi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for Local Government and Rural Development for the answers that he has given. I must confirm that, yes, those roads are being worked on. However, I want to appeal to the Government as regards Kaloko and Mishili. Kaloko is where we recently had a disaster where we lost fifty-seven houses and the road network is bad. I ask the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development to see whether there is any consideration for such places so that we do not have the same issue happen after this rainy season. It is bound to happen if those roads are not worked on.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I have been looking for the hon. Member, as a matter of fact, the whole morning and I called him several times, but I realised that he was probably talking far from here.

 

Madam Speaker, what I say to many hon. Members of Parliament is that in areas that are like the Kavu Road, where the connectivity has completely been cut off, it would be helpful for him, through the local authority, to write a letter to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and copy to us so that we could try and find a resolution to making sure that connectivity is restored. At the time when funds are available to pay these contracts on the road, that particular expenditure will be deducted from the interim payment certificate So, I still invite him. When I am done answering the questions, Hon. Mwambazi, please, phone me. I am looking for you like a needle wherever you are so that we can settle this matter of your roads.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, since the hon. Minister said that the remaining roads will be worked on in the period 2024 to 2027, is it possible that the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwana Mkubwa, Hon. Mwambazi, can use part of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to work on these roads?

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) regulations permit works on small bridges and culverts. That is what is written in the regulations.

 

Madam Speaker, the question the hon. Member has asked me is similar to raising a point of order on a point of order.

 

Madam Speaker, these particular roads are already contracted on Government money. So, you cannot go and get money from the CDF to go and complete work which is already contracted because what you will face is total confusion. You will fail to separate the expenditure from one Vote against the expenditure from another Vote.

 

Madam, to be categorical, all the roads that are contracted, no CDF will be applied on them because it will amount to duplication. However, as I said earlier on, if the local authority can write to us and spell out the distress on a particular road that is contracted, we can go to the Treasury and ask for the provision of contingency to fix that particular crossing point, which expenditure on that point will be deducted from the existing contract. I hope I am making myself very clear about that. So, you are not allowed to use the CDF on a road that is already contracted.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker gave the Floor to Ms Kasune.

 

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Madam Speaker, I did not make any comments. I am sorry about that.

 

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Pemba Constituency to ask a follow-up question. The hon. Minister clearly indicated that the previous regime over-procured by 2,000 per cent. The people of Pemba Constituency would like to find out from him what the allowable percentage is if the ministry is to procure above the budget.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Pemba for that question. I wish to clarify that all public expenditure is ring-fenced in the Appropriation Act. Once the Budget is prepared and approved by this House, there is an Appropriation Bill that is brought to this Parliament, which ring-fences the expenditure for that fiscal year. What this means is that if there is any additional requirement to spend money, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning comes and presents a Supplementary Budget, which must be approved by this House. In short, any over-procurement is wrong. It is irresponsible to over-procure.

 

Madam Speaker, it is like the suit I am wearing, ...

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo:  ... if I take it to the laundry today and the people at the laundry decide to adjust it, I will not fit in it the next day.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: So, the act of over-procurement is a clear irresponsibility and is disrespectful to the law. As it is, this is the reason we, in the current Government, are perceived to not be as generous as the other people were. They were spending money which was not allocated for particular activities.

 

Madam Speaker, precisely, the budget for last year was only K300 million, under the programme of feeder roads. How on earth, under the sun, can any responsible people go and get Interim Payment Certificates (IPCs) of K4.1 billion against K300 million?

 

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

 

Mr Nkombo: That is being irresponsible, and I mean extremely so. These are some of the headaches that I go home and wake up with everyday. People who are contracted in here also sometimes start behaving as if they have not done any simple accounting. I cannot manufacture money. The budget provides that I can only pay K41 million per annum for the entire ministry and not only for feeder roads. It is for all infrastructure-related activities in the ministry, including the sweeping of the streets, the cleaning of the drainages, the grading of the feeder roads and so on and so forth.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to say this through you; for us to demolish this K4.1 billion debt that was accrued under one programme of feeder roads, it will take innovation from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning after we finish and conclude the auditing of the authenticity of how those contracts were arrived at. We need to know how much work was put in. If we go by our current budgeting system, it will take forty years for those people to be paid.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

ILLEGAL MINING OF RARE EARTH ELEMENTS IN ISOKA DISTRICT

 

191. Ms Nakaponda (Isoka) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 

1. whether the Government is aware of the illegal mining of rare earth elements in Nkombwa area in Isoka District;
2. if so, whether there are any plans to legalise the mining activities in order to, among others, empower the local people;
3. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
4. if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Kabuswe): Madam Speaker, the Government is not aware of the illegal mining activities of rare earth elements in Nkombwa area of Isoka District.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government is not in a position to make plans to legalise mining activities prior to confirming allegations of illegal mining activities in the area. Therefore, part (c) of the question falls off.

 

Madam, the Government has not yet ascertained that there are illegal mining activities going on in the area.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Nakaponda: Madam Speaker, I would like to urge the hon. Minister to follow-up on the matter so that he can see whether there is no illegal mining in Nkombwa Ward.

 

Dr Mwanza (Kaumbwe): Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister is aware about the illegal mining activities in Nkombwa area, just like in many other parts of the country where there are quite a number of illegal mining activities, what measures is his ministry putting up in order to identify such kinds of illegal activities, other than waiting for whistleblowers?

 

Madam Speaker: If the hon. Member for Kaumbwe was listening, the hon. Minister is not aware. So, the question falls off.

 

Madam Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Mung’andu.

 

Mr Mung’andu was inaudible.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, ensure your audio is on, please.

 

As the hon. Member for Chama South is trying to connect, the hon. Member for Mpika may proceed to ask his question.

 

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika): Madam Speaker, there is a company that got an exploration license in 2012 for some minerals in the Nkombwa area. This company has been exploring since then and also illegally mining. This is as the situation is everywhere.

 

Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister knows that there is illegal mining in the Nkombwa area. Is he going to constitute a team of experts and investigators to go on the ground and investigate so that they bring forth a report for his action?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I was hesitant to comment on this issue in detail because of the way the question was structured, which included the use of the word ‘rare’. These are rare earth metals being talked about. They are very rare even in Zambia. Nobody can even mine them illegally because they cannot process or sale them anywhere. They are very difficult. They are rare earth metals.

 

Madam, as regards other areas where there is illegal mining, I think that I am on record even on television shutting down illegal activities in the country.

 

Madam Speaker, we found this country in confusion and the confusion is everywhere. We can only do so much at a time. So, we are moving in wherever there are illegal activities and are shutting them down.

 

Madam Speaker, you may wish to note that only today, because of the confusion, I suspended the issuance of mining licences for the next thirty days. If we are not done with what we want to find out in terms of the illegalities that were happening, we will go beyond one month. That is how serious we are in dealing with the illegalities in the mining sector.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, arising from the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister, I have decided to withdraw my question.

 

Madam Speaker: I am sorry. I did not notice that.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the response from the hon. Minister. I assure him that illegalities will continue to be there. So, it is important to provide leadership instead of apportioning blame.

 

Madam Speaker, Hon. Nakaponda is from the area in question. Would it not be ideal for the hon. Minister to engage her so that she probably gives him information on what is obtaining on the ground in order for him to make an informed decision on whether he may need to dispatch technical experts to go to the area and see what is obtaining instead of getting information from elsewhere?

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is on the ground and, I think, the whole essence of her generating this question was to bring it to the hon. Minister’s attention. Would it not ideal that the hon. Minister engaged the hon. Member of Parliament for him to get information which may be helpful to him and the ministry?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, our bureau is actually all over trying to find out whether these rare metals are actually being mined illegally. However, like I said, for very rare earth metals, even if somebody went and did any illegality around them, they would find nothing. They are not there. So, I hear the hon. Member, we will do as advised.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Shakafuswa (Mandevu): Madam Speaker, my question has been taken care of by the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, your audio is still off.

 

I think we have given him sufficient time. Maybe you need to approach our Information Communication Technology (ICT) team in order for it to assist you on how to log in.

 

STALLED CONSTRUCTION OF NALOLO DISTRICT HOSPITAL

 

192. Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

1. why the construction of the Nalolo District Hospital has stalled;
2. when the project will resume;
3. what the cost of the outstanding works is; and
4. what the time frame for the completion of the project is.

 

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the construction of the Nalolo District Hospital is being done in phases. Phase 1 of the project, which is the construction of the Nalolo District Hospital, attained practical completion in December 2019 and was handed over for occupation on 20^th July, 2020. The final Defect Completion Certificate was issued on 14^th October, 2021. The hospital is currently operational. The scope of works for Phase I included the construction of the outpatient department, the administration block and the external works.

 

Madam Speaker, Phase II of the project will commence as soon as funds are made available. The scope of works for Phase II will include the construction of four staff houses, a mortuary, a theatre, a maternity wing, a service block, an incinerator, a mothers’ shelter and associated external works.

 

Madam Speaker, the cost of the construction works for Phase II is estimated at K40 million.

 

Madam, the estimated timeframe for Phase II is eighteen months from the commencement of the works.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Wamunyima: Madam Speaker, do we see the availability of funds being in the life of this Parliament? As we speak, that Phase I is merely a shell which is operational, but not really benefiting the community.

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I fully understand. When I read out the list of the works under Phase II, I think, in a way, I redefined what the hospital should be. It should have staff houses, a mortuary, a theater, a maternity wing, an incinerator, a mothers’ shelter and all those things. So, I do understand.

 

Now, his question is: Do we see funds being available in the life of this Parliament? Yes, in the life of this Parliament. I do not see us going into the next elections with those works still outstanding.

 

Madam Speaker, I think, time and again, on the Floor of this House, I have tried to explain what the New Dawn Government, under the leadership of His Excellency the President, is trying to do to ensure that head room or fiscal space is created so that outstanding works on a number of projects throughout the country can be undertaken.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Chama South is now in Nalolo.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, (laughs) the people of Nalolo are very happy to hear the hon. Minister’s response that the completion of the construction of the Nalolo District Hospital will happen during the life of this Parliament and are looking forward to it.

 

Madam Speaker, my point of clarification is on Phase II, which includes good transport such as ambulances and water transport to transport the sick. The biggest problem in rural communities is usually the lack of ambulances. Does the project include ambulances? If yes, can it not be done now so that patients in Nalolo can be served better and they can appreciate the works of the New Dawn Government?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the question was quite straight forward. I read out the questions and I have answered the questions that were put to the ministry. The issue of ambulances and other things like CT Scans, and so on and forth, are separate. If he wants to know, since he is now in Nalolo, a separate question would suffice.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I am an hon. Member of Parliament. I am not from Nalolo. I am a Member of –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chama South, you have not been called upon to ask a question.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: You have already asked a question and the answer has been provided. You are invited to go and see the hon. Minister to discuss further the interests of the people of Nalolo.

 

Laughter

 

STALLED CONSTRUCTION OF ELEVEN DIP TANKS IN SIAVONGA DISTRICT

 

193. Mr Mulunda (Siavonga) asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

 

1. why the construction of the eleven dip tanks in Siavonga District has stalled;
2. when the project will resume; and
3. what has caused the delay in resuming the project.

 

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Chikote): Madam Speaker, the construction of the eleven dip tanks in Siavonga District stalled. The House may wish to note that the eleven dip tanks are in Chaanga, Sianyolo, Muchanvwa and Simamba Veterinary Camps in Siavonga District.

 

Madam Speaker, a total of K982,111.94 out of K2,459,419.96 representing 40 per cent of the contract value was paid to two contractors namely Oil for Africa Corporation Limited and Newland Trading Limited to construct the eleven dip tanks. Oil for Africa Corporation Limited was awarded a contract to construct six dip tanks while Newland Trading Limited was awarded a contract to construct five dip tanks.

 

Madam Speaker, the construction of these dip tanks stalled at various levels broken down as: seven at excavation level; two at slab and steel works stage; and two at roof level. The works stalled due to a lack of funds to complete them.

 

Madam Speaker, the ministry is currently conducting a comprehensive assessment of the dip tanks situation countrywide, which includes Siavonga. After the assessment, the ministry will determine the way forward and when the works will resume in Siavonga District.

 

Madam Speaker, as stated in the answer for part (b) above, the assessment is ongoing and the ministry wants this to be comprehensive.

 

Madam Speaker, once this schedule is concluded; the cause of the delay will be established.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mulunda: Madam Speaker, I believe that those eleven dip tanks had a budget line from the National Budget and the provincial budget. So, what caused the contractors to come back and say they had not been given the money because there was no money? What happened to the money that was budgeted for the eleven dip tanks in Siavonga?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question. Those are the projects which started around 2013, 2014 and 2015. That is the more reason I have stated in my response that we are doing an assessment to establish what really delayed the completion of those projects and why those contractors decided to stop working. So, we are doing an assessment, as a ministry, to establish why those projects in Siavonga stalled. Immediately after our assessment, the hon. Member will see the direction or the way forward from the ministry.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, is this assessment likely to be done this year?

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this House that this is a New Dawn Government which has a very serious commitment to this sector. We believe that once well managed, it will start to contribute positively to the well being of this country. Hence, this assessment is going to be conducted. As I stated, it is ongoing and I expect it to be completed within ninety days.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

FUTURE OF LASF

 

194. Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

 

1. what the future of the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) is, considering that the organisation has not been recruiting new members;
2. how much money LASF owed retirees, in pension benefits, as of December, 2021;
3. when the retirees will be paid;
4. whether the Government has any plans to increase the annuity for LASF members; and
5. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was in the process of answering the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chama North to do with the Local Authority Superannuation Fund (LASF)

 

Madam Speaker, hon. Members of this House may be aware that LASF was impaired by the non-admission of members since the operationalisation of the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA). Following this, the Government has intentions to reform LASF and the changes that it is going to make will be seen soon. We are going to reform it by redesigning the scheme parameters and amending the relevant pieces of legislation that will facilitate the admission of new members under the Fund.

 

Madam Speaker, hon. Members may recall that the Minister of Finance and National Planning, in his Budget Address to this House, did indicate that the Government will implement a broad pension reforms by amending the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund Act Cap 284 of the Laws of Zambia, the Public Service Pensions Act No. 35 of 1996, and the National Pensions Scheme Act Cap. 256 of the Laws of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, as of 31^st December, 2021, LASF owed 15,395 retirees and pensioners a sum of K531,111,901.47.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, released K50 million towards the payment of retirees on 31^st December, 2021. The disbursements commenced in January 2022. The Government remains very committed to settling these amounts owed to the retirees.

 

Madam Speaker, over the last years, LASF has been making marginal adjustments to increase the annuity depending on the financial position and actuarial recommendation. The current annuity payable was last adjusted in 2019. However, due to the decline in LASF’s financial position over the years, the institution has not been able to increase the annuity any further.

 

Madam Speaker, as stated at (d), the Government, through LASF, has no current plan to increase the annuity due to the same reason, being financial constraint.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for that well outlined response. I think it will be a landmark development if at all the Government is going to review the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund Act.

 

Madam Speaker, I am aware that Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) has been going through a lot of financial challenges. Opening up the scheme to recruit new members is the only way it can be sustained. So, this is my prayer. I receive calls from retirees throughout the country because LASF used to represent members at ZESCO Limited, the National Housing Authority (NHA), local authorities and water utility companies. So, I want to find out the timeframe in which the hon. Minister is going to amend this law so that LASF can start receiving new members.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for demonstrating his people-centric attitude, especially the retirees. In terms of the timeframe that he would like to know, as regards when we are going to bring legislation to this House in order to commence the amendments of the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund Act, I would like to state that currently, we are quite loaded because this is a Legislative Session. We, so far, have passed, as Cabinet, a number of pieces of legislation that are coming to this House for attending. I can only confirm to him that we are going to prioritise bringing the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund Act once our drafts people in the Ministry of Justice do their part. We are going to definitely bring it. I am very hopeful it could be in this Session, but if it is not, we will do it as soon as time can allow.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I have to declare interest. This is a matter of public interest, and having served in the ministry responsible for local government, I understand the challenges the hon. Minister could be facing in so far as the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) is concerned.

 

Madam Speaker, any pension scheme depends on membership, as the hon. Minister stated. The few measures that have been tried before, including the sourcing of funds from the ministry responsible for finance and the disposing off of non-performing assets by local authorities, have not resolved this matter.

 

Madam Speaker, going forward, I commend the hon. Minister that he is revising and restructuring the scheme. However, doing that without engaging his counterpart at the Ministry of Labour and Social Security will be more or less an exercise in futility.

 

Madam Speaker, has the hon. Minister made arrangements to engage the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security and the technical staff at the ministry to try and harmonise because the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) falls under the Ministry of Labour and Social Security. So, he needs to find a way of harmonising the different pieces of Legislation. Is there that collaboration between the two ministries?

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, that response to that question was done with liaison with the Ministry of Labour and Social Security. From the outset, when I answered this question, I indicated the reason we are in this malaise. I stated that it was occasioned by the establishment of NAPSA. We are in one Cabinet pulling the same direction.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu for his concern and can assure him and confirm to him that we are continuously talking as one Cabinet on how to get around this matter so that all our retirees, firstly, can start to laugh and, secondly, we can start readmitting new members under LASF new arrangement as soon as possible.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to add my voice onto this important matter of the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF).

 

Madam Speaker, I start by commending the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development for the well articulated position of Cabinet and that of his ministry.

 

I thank the hon. Minister very much. However, I hasten to state that challenges, besides the dwindling number of membership occasioned by the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), which also affect the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) include the non-remittance of statutory contributions by local authorities themselves. Other bodies, like the National Housing Authority (NHA), are going through similar challenges. ZESCO Limited, however, is a better institution under LASF.

 

Madam, now that the New Dawn Government is able to release monthly salaries to councils, what interim measure have been put in place to ensure that local authorities remit their statutory contributions on a monthly basis to LASF? Why do I ask? When they are just left with just instructions, they tend to ignore the Government position. So, what measures have been put in place to ensure that councils remit current contributions at source or by themselves?

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, let me thank the hon. Member for Chasefu for his kind words to this poor soul.

 

Madam, as the hon. Member knows himself, as a people-centric person, having served in unions, the dislocation of the function of LASF, as occasioned by the establishment of the National Pension Scheme Authority Act nearly ten years ago, if not a bit more, is the exact reason we are in this malaise. Coupled with that, the hon. Member knows very well that councils were completely impeded. There was an impediment in terms of collection of revenues. There was an impediment on initiative for them to be able to raise local funds for themselves. It is just like in the Central Government. If there is any biggest defaulter on these statutory payments, it is the Government itself.

 

Madam, it is a cultural shift that we have to embark upon that statutory payments must be respected because, coupled with the need to respect these statutory payments, there are also punitive measures prescribed by law for those who default. So, as we go towards re-profiling the NAPSA Act and the LASF Act, all that will come alongside clear instructions to our councils, especially, to say that from this point going forward, whichever council that is not going to abide by the contribution requirement will be subject to the law, which law already exists. I am sure that we will get it right if we work together.

 

Madam, we would like to make an appeal to hon. Members of Parliament because, sometime in the not so distant a future, we may revisit the law, subject to all of us agreeing that hon. Members of Parliament go back to the council.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: That is subject to all of us agreeing. We have to chat a path that will allow us to deal with that constitutional provision to allow hon. Members of Parliament to go back to councils because their absence has caused a dislocation.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika: Even Nominated Members!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: So, if we are all agreed, and Cabinet also agrees, we can then amend the Constitution away from the acrimony which we saw during the time the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, No. 10, 2019 was being pushed down our throats.

 

Madam Speaker, this requires deep and wide consultation among all hon. Members of Parliament away from the Legislative Chamber if we sat in the Amphitheater and all agreed that it is a positive move and it would be beneficial to society that hon. Members of Parliament go back to the council. That way, it will be incumbent upon hon. Members, as part and parcel of councils, to ensure that local authorities are constantly reminded that they must contribute the statutory requirement. I hope, as we get along, we will get it right.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

RECONSTRUCTION OF SESHEKE/KAZUNGULA ROAD

 

195. Mr Kangombe (Sesheke) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

 

1. when the reconstruction of the Sesheke/Kazungula Road will commence;
2. what the cause of the delay in commencing the project is;
3. who the contractor for the project is;
4. what the cost of the project is; and
5. what the timeframe for undertaking the project is.

 

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the construction of the Sesheke/Kazungula Road will commerce once the concessionaire has attained financial closure and procured the contractor for the works. The road is part of a project for the development of the western trade facilitation routes inclusive of resettlement schemes and border facilities which the Government will undertake using the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) model of financing.

 

Madam Speaker, the concessionaire is yet to attain financial closure and, according to the concession agreement, the concessionaire has up to 270 days to attain financial closure and this is with effect from 10^th August, 2021, when the concession agreement was signed.

 

Madam Speaker, the contractor for the road will only be known once the concessionaire attains financial closure and procures the contractor for the works.

 

Madam Speaker, the cost of the project will only be known once the designs have been prepared.

Madam, the timeframe shall also be known once designs have been prepared.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kangombe: Madam Speaker, it is well understood that the hon. Minister’s response is full of ‘once this and that has been done’. I think the people of Sesheke and the Western Province have, even in the past, received similar answers and are, slowly, losing patience. As this is a process that I believe has already started, could he be kind enough to indicate even the month when these financial whatsoever will be concluded so that the people of Sesheke can be in the know?

 

Eng Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Sesheke for his passion for the people he represents and those beyond.

 

Madam Speaker, it does not please the New Dawn Government to see that stretch of road, especially from Kazungula to Sesheke, be in the state that it is in.

 

It is deplorable and, for all intents and purposes, especially during this particular rainy season when there has been flooding over the place, it is as good as cut-off.

 

Madam, the New Dawn Administration believes that the quickest and most effective way of procuring quality work for that road, which is also cost effective in terms of the resources of the Government, is to follow the PPP route. This is what we have done.

 

Madam Speaker, a concession was given to people on 10^th August. According to the concession agreement, once you sign it – this is in the law of the Public Private Procurement Act – you have up to 270 days which is about nine months or thereabout. The operative ‘word’ here is ‘up to’. They are not given 270 days in which to do it.

 

Madam, we have, as a ministry, spoken to them, understanding the need for this road to be done, and asked them: When are you going to achieve financial closure? We want to know that they are serious and that they are able to do it. They have promised us that they will start somewhere around the close of this month we are in.

 

Madam Speaker, I say this to indicate to the hon. Member and other interested parties whom that road services. It is not only people in Sesheke, but also also in Mulobezi Constituency, Mwandi Constituency, Sioma Constituency, Shangombo Constituency and beyond –

 

Mr Mwene: Mangango!

 

Eng. Milupi: Mangango? How does it come in?

 

Laughter

 

Eng. Milupi: We are anxious to complete the construction of this road. There are other people waiting in the wings. If they are not able to do the road, we need to know so that we make the decision quickly to engage others. The New Dawn Administration is very anxious to do that road properly, once and for all, especially the areas that flood such as the Mipani area. The next construction will be to international standards, taking into account the terrain in which that road passes.

 

Madam Speaker, we are doing what we can and I have said that within the next week or so, they will indicate whether they have reached financial closure. If they have not, we will go to other contractors.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Sefulo (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the road services the people of Mwandi, Sesheke and Sioma, but that is an international road that services the country at large. I should say that is the truth. They say the road to success is tough, but the road that goes to Sesheke is even tougher. That indicates the deplorable state that the road is in.

 

Madam, is the hon. Minister aware that due to the bad state of that road, currently, bus service providers have cancelled bus services to our people in Mwandi and Sesheke? Therefore, it adds on top of the suffering that the people of Mwandi, Sesheke and those who use that road go through.

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I have been on this road two or three times since coming into office. That shows the level of attention we are giving to it.

 

Madam, the hon. Member is absolutely right. This is an international road. All traffic bringing in imports through the Walvis Bay use that road. Exports going through that route also use that the same road. As a result of its state, even transporters, let alone buses, have had to divert from Katimamulilo to Livingstone, which is the shorter route, to go all the way to Sioma, Senanga, Mongu and Kaoma and then back into Lusaka, adding to costs.

 

Madam, she asked whether I am aware that bus operators had stopped using that route. In my earlier answer, I said that for all intents and purposes, that road is cut-off because of the state it is in. So, we are fully aware of this. Throughout the rainy season, it is going to be next to impassable and that is why we have elevated the priority in terms of what we need to do to sort it out. The quickest way, as I have said, is to use the PPP route.

 

Madam Speaker, in terms of priorities, when we talk about these things, we are not politicking. This is an international and economic road that was completely neglected and it is now in that state. For me, who travels on these roads and see, that is a shameful state. Our colleagues who were here ought to reflect. Why were these critical roads allowed to deteriorate to the state where they are right now, affecting the economy of the country?

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwene (Mangango): Madam Speaker, how fast is the New Dawn Government in finding concessionaires and ceiling up as well as working under the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) to work on these roads generally in the Western Province? These are roads that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government neglected a lot.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwene: These are roads that the PF were campaigning on, but never worked on. They were really neglected, especially the Katunda/Lukulu Road. How fast is the hon. Minister in finding partners to work on these roads?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, let me use this question to explain exactly what PPP is. PPP is a financing model that sees investors who they think they can make money or return their investment and profit on a particular road express an interest to construct it. The first thing is that we wait for contractors to come and express their interest. We have opened up the whole country so that any road is available under the PPP model of financing.

 

Madam, as the New Dawn Government, we have said that we are going to aggressively pursue this model because it is cost effective, especially whilst we are dealing with the issue of debt. We are dealing with multi-pronged problems in the economy of this country; debt; and the need to carry on with infrastructure development.

 

Madam Speaker, once an investor has shown interest through what we call unsolicited bids, the Public-Private Partnership Act compels us to advertise. In certain cases, we limit the period of time to the barest minimum because we are conscious that our people need the services of these roads.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member would have noticed that in the past week, we advertised, for example, the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway. That is because the interest is such that we can proceed to that a level. We will do the same when these other roads reach that level. This one, the Kazungula/Livingstone Road, was advertised some time back. That is why the law gives that period to reach financial closure. The other roads that the hon. Member is talking about – he missed out on a question last week – the Katunda/Lukulu Road is also of equal importance to us. So, we are discussing with potential Public-Private Partnership (PPP) investors and contractors on that road. When we are ready to go public, we will definitely do that.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, allow me to, first of all, appreciate the New Dawn Government’s strategy of considering roads such as the one we are discussing this afternoon under the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) in a very difficult situation where we are grappling with debt in the construction sector.

 

Madam Speaker, secondly, I would like also to appreciate the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development for his absolute commitment towards the cause.

 

Madam Speaker, before I pose my substantive question, I would like to put it in context that going by the hon. Minister’s response to the question, particularly on the contractor who has shown interest in undertaking the construction of that road through a PPP, he indicated that the contractor was given approximately nine months in which to express the fact that he has reached financial closure. Calculating from the date he gave, it leaves us with approximately three months before it expires in accordance with the law, meaning that the contractor still has that time.

 

Madam Speaker, what we have is what is provided for by the law. Unfortunately, the hon. Minister was short of explaining to the House and the general public what alternative measures have been put in place in the event that this particular contractor fails to reach the financial closure, as envisaged. Do we have any alternative which would not make us, again, extend the period to another nine months whilst the people of Sesheke continue suffering?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Kambita, who is always very precise in his questions and debates and helps us to explain.

 

Madam Speaker, yes, we do have other interested parties. It is just that this contract was signed. It is not us who signed that particular concession. It was signed by our predecessors. As I mentioned, the date of signing was 10^th August, 2021. We were not voted-in until two days later on 12^th August, 2021.

 

Madam Speaker, we are, therefore, obliged to see that process through. However, we have had other expressions of interest on that stretch and we shall use our authority to ensure that they reach financial closure. In the event that they do not, we will have others lined up for that work. However, in the meantime, periodic maintenance of this particular section was awarded.

 

Madam Speaker, there is a contractor called Helmet Engineering and Construction Limited, who was contracted in 2017 at a contract sum of about K914 million, including Value Added Tax (VAT). This contract is still active, but the progress is very slow at about 3 per cent. So, he is right. The contractor is currently undertaking this work.

 

Madam Speaker, I think our focus, really, is on redoing the whole work because there is no longer periodic maintenance applicable there. For those who have driven on it, they have seen the potholes. Do you fill those portholes? You cannot fill those portholes. So, the solution is to completely rip it apart and completely rehabilitate it. That is what we are focusing on.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister know or has he a clue as to whether the road was funded during the Patriotic Front (PF) regime?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think that today, we have had a very good House, and peace has prevailed. So, I do not want to disturb that mood. I will, therefore, just say we have not really carried out research. It was neglected, and so I can assume it was not funded.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, the ministry has qualified engineers in all areas of road works. Under item (b) in the question, as regards the cost of this project, the hon. Minister indicated, if I heard him right, that it will only be known after the company or the consortium which is supposed to do the work submits its work plan.

 

Madam Speaker, since the ministry has qualified engineers and this is not a new project altogether, but just a road which needs to be redone, why should it wait to know the cost when the engineers could, at least, to start with, give it some estimated cost of the road so that even as it receives the cost estimates from the other colleagues, it already has one on its table? What are the engineers doing?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, in contract management and contraction of these sorts of projects, this is the process which is followed: The in-house engineers carry out an estimate, and they used to insist on that so that when contractors bid they had an idea. The adjudication process, first of all, goes through a two staged process. The first one is what we call ‘Technical Compliance.’ Do they comply?

 

Madam Speaker when you have selected those that comply technically, the next stage is ‘Financial Adjudication.’ That financial adjudication is not carried out blindly. It is carried out with reference to your own estimates. It will be improper for me to divulge when this process is going through to tell people what our estimate is. We would not get the proper amounts offered by contractors. We have these figures. We have figures per kilometre of tar or bituminous roads. So, we know exactly where we want to pitch in this. That is why we have said that some of these costs are too high. We already have figures as to how much it costs per kilometre.

 

Madam Speaker, that road to Sesheke is 195 Km to Kazungula minus sixty, it is 135km. So, we know approximately where it ought to be, but it is not a figure that we can put out in the public domain because we want those who want to do the job to be able to compete. It is one of those figures that we use as a benchmark for the financial adjudication.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving the good people of Lumezi an opportunity to ask a question on behalf of their brothers in Sesheke and Kazungula.

 

Madam Speaker, it is obvious that the hon. Minister has given very decent answers. I have difficulty, however, in the sense that for a Public Private Partnership (PPP) project in this country, it has to, first of all, be advertised with the Council of hon. Ministers, which ordinarily takes about two months. After the advertisement, it takes another six months.

 

Madam Speaker, for how long are the people of Kazungula and Sesheke going to have to wait for that road to be done? Based on the background, the minimum it will take is two years. Is the hon. Minister telling them that they will have to wait for a minimum of two years before that road is worked on?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his concern. Yes, there is a Public Private Partnership (PPP) Council and there are hon. Ministers on it. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is the Chairperson and I am the Vice-Chairperson of that Council.

 

Madam Speaker, the number of months and years that the hon. Member has given is completely incorrect. Otherwise, even the Lusaka/Ndola Road, which we have advertised, would have waited the same number of years that he is talking about, two years. We expect that by mid-year, we should start working on the Lusaka/Ndola Road.

 

Madam, the people on the PPP Council are fully aware of the need to work on some of these roads. That is why even some of the periods that are given in the Act, are given as the minimum. This is to ensure that even as we keep to the law, because we are a Government of laws, we do not use the law to prolong the process.

 

Madam Speaker, the same applies to this road. I think we have already stated that from 10^th August, the law provides for not more than 270 days. Already, however, the people on the PPP Council are telling us that by the end of this month, they should have reached financial closure. Once you reach financial closure, you procure the contractor and move on site. So, if they are able to reach that financial closure by this or the next month, by the end of the rainy season, works will start. Currently, you cannot move on site and begin to construct that road because you will construct a road that ends up prematurely failing, as some of the roads we have seen.

 

Madam Speaker, it does not take two years, but I thank the hon. Member for Lumezi for his concern. The Council will do everything possible to ensure that within this year, there is a number of roads where construction will begin. I think we have an approximate idea as to which roads will be first, second and so on and so forth. We have been in office for five or six months, but within this year, at the end of the rainy season to mid-year, Zambians will see bulldozers on certain roads.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I do appreciate the responses coming from the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development.

 

Madam Speaker, the Public Private Partnership (PPP) model is a business model. One of the major factors that people who want to invest in infrastructure take into consideration is the viability of the project. There are roads on which you can cook beans without being disturbed by traffic, and yet those roads are very important to our people. However, it might be very difficult for any investor to put money in them.

 

Madam, roads like the Great North Road can be found to be non viable for a PPP project from the considerations that are made, and yet you see the traffic that is on that road.

 

Madam Speaker, when would the hon. Minister be able to come to this august House and give us a list of roads that he thinks are viable for a PPP model so that these questions coming from hon. Members can be rested. I know where he is pressed. Everybody wants roads, apart from the Sesheke Road, which obviously is in a deplorable state and just as important as the Great North Road. These are international routes.

 

So, when would the hon. Minister see it prudent to come to this august House and just give the number of kilometres that he thinks will be worked on and which routes will be viable? I am sure that by now, he should be able to know which roads could be viable for the PPP model so that we cut down on this impression that the PPP will be a panacea to the road network challenges this country is facing.

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, who told the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu that the Great North Road is not viable for a PPP model? It is one of the most viable roads, except that portions of the Great North Road are being undertaken through financing from the African Development Bank (ADB) and the European Union (EU). Specifically, the Chinsali/Isoka stretch onto Nakonde is under the ADB financing. However, there are sections which are very bad, such as the Serenje to Mpika, including …

 

Mr Kangombe: Shiwang’andu.

 

Eng. Milupi: … Mpika to Chinsali, where, I believe, a certain constituency called Shiwang’andu is found.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Eng. Milupi: So, when he boasts that he carried out infrastructure development, I wonder why forgot his section of the road.

 

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, can we have some order!

 

Eng. Milupi: So, the roads for which we are considering PPPs are viable roads and viability is not determined by the traffic that passes on these roads. On some of them, there is no traffic because there is no road, but people know what is in the plan. They know that when we open up certain areas because of the following items, traffic will follow.

 

Madam Speaker, I am, however, very glad that the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu has said that there are roads which are not viable for the PPP because it is a business model. Recently, I got into some issues because I did say that certain roads were not viable for the PPP. I must make it clear to this House that it does not mean that that is the only financing model that we shall use to construct roads. There will be some that are so important to our population, but are not viable for the PPP model which will need to be constructed either under our own resources as the Government or, indeed, under grant financing, if we are able to get it.

 

Madam, the Zambian population must understand that if we are working on, for example, the Lusaka/Ndola Road, people should not expect that the one going to my village must also be done under a PPP because it will not be done. It is a question of balancing for the team that we have under the PPP and the Council. The New Dawn Government is taking these matters very seriously and balancing everything.

 

Madam Speaker, when we are ready, we will come to this House. However, I think it will be presumptuous to come with a wholesale approach and say that this road and that road is viable for Public- Private Partnership (PPP) and this road and that road is not and so on and so forth. We want to attract as many people as possible to come and offer PPPs if they are able to.

 

Madam Speaker, we will announce road by road on a case by case basis when we are about to complete because, if I said that a particular road going to a certain place will not be considered for PPP, it would probably be unfair especially once we know there will be a lot of through traffic.

 

Madam Speaker, for example, the Mutanda to Mwinilunga, Mwinilunga to Ikeleng’i and Ikeleng’i to Jimbe roads, if you go to certain sections, there is no traffic, but we know that if we were to open them up and our colleagues on the other side also open as they want to, there will be massive volumes of traffic moving on that road. That is why we are getting interest from PPP on a road like the one I have just mentioned.

 

URANIUM MINING
 

196. Mr Fube (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 

1. what the status of uranium mining, countrywide, is; and
2. whether the uranium mine in the Southern Province is operational.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, the status is that there is currently no company mining and processing uranium in the country.

 

Madam Speaker, the uranium mine in the Southern Province, Goviex Uranium Zambia Ltd, is not operational.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, in November 2017, a preliminary economic assessment was done on the mining that the hon. Minister referred to. I would like believe we are on the same page talking about Mukanga. Three licensing arrangements were made for deposits in Muntanga Dimbwe and Dimbwe East. After that assessment, about 2.5 million Pounds worth of uranium octoxide was projected, which brings us to 88 per cent uranium recovery.

 

Madam Speaker, I ask this question based on the fact that generally, Zambia is a resource rich country. The company the hon. Minister has referred to acquired this project from Denison Mines in 2016. What is the status and what made them to stop mining uranium? As we all know, uranium is a mineral that is also subjected to other factors, especially international regulation.

 

Mr Mulusa: Question!

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I seek your protection, otherwise, I will be forced to respond.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, you are protected. Just ask your question.

 

Mr Fube: I will be forced to respond to that kind of barking.

 

Madam Speaker, my question is: What are some of the reasons that led Goviex Uranium Zambia Ltd to stop mining uranium and what is the status of the license it was given?

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, mining is a business. At some point, there was the Fukushima disaster in Japan, which affected the prices of uranium and at that point, this company thought it was uneconomical to actually continue mining it. That is why it sort of suspended its operations. However, we are alive to the fact that immediately it is economically viable for it to continue, it will continue.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, after it was given the licences, it acquired another portion of land in Chirundu and Kariba, which stretched up to 140 km. From his answer, the hon. Minister indicated that the mining company found it unprofitable in some way to continue because of the prices of uranium on the international market. We all know that uranium is a mineral that, by all standards and proportions, cannot lose value easily.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, please, ask your question. Do not debate because this is not time for debate. Just ask your question.

 

Mr Fube: Madam Speaker, I am not debating, I am building up my question. I do not know why I am the victim of such when others are allowed to go their way.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member can you resume your seat.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, uranium being a radioactive element is used in nuclear reactors for the production of electricity and also in wheel cones. Has the ministry faced any international concerns and restrictions? Could that be among the reasons uranium mining has been discontinued in the country? If yes, do we have compensation for that? As a country, we are supposed to be earning something out this resource.

 

Mr Kabuswe: Madam Speaker, I think I have been very clear that the reason this company that was trying to mine uranium stopped, was that for it, it became, at the particular time, not economically viable to go right ahead and do exploration for uranium. I am not aware, since I took over the ministry, of any instruction to that effect in as far as the mining of uranium is concerned.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to reiterate what I said; as a ministry, we are doing due diligence. We are suspending the issuance of licenses because we want to understand what has been going on and this is why we are doing what we are doing.

 

Madam Speaker, licensing will be open to every Zambian whether it is in uranium, copper or any other mineral resource mining.

 

Madam, I want to emphasise that resources like uranium have a special way in which they are handled. As such, we want to be very careful with whom we allow to do the mining of the uranium, even when they apply for exploration licenses.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

TARRING OF CHASEFU/CHAMA ROAD

 

197. Mr Nyambose (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to tar the Chasefu/Chama Road, connecting Muchinga Province and the Eastern Province, which is in a deplorable state;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. if there are no such plans, why.

(Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate the Chasefu/Chama Road which connects Muchinga and the Eastern Province, even though this has changed. I think he understands that Chama is now in the Eastern Province. That is the Government policy.

 

Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation works on the Chasefu to Chama road are part of the project for the upgrading of the Isoka/Muyombe/Chama/Lundazi Road to bituminous standard. A contractor for the construction of the Chasefu/Chama Road has already been procured. However, works on the project have stalled due to funding challenges.

 

Madam Speaker, the works on the project will resume once funds are made available.

 

Madam Speaker, part (c) of the question falls off as the Government already has plans as indicated in the response to parts (a) and (b) above.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker –

 

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chasefu, proceed with your supplementary question.

 

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development for the answers given.

 

Mr Fube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chilubi, I have not recognised your point of order, right now the hon. Member for Chasefu is asking a supplementary question. Let us allow the hon. Member to ask the question.

 

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, I start by first commending the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development. In the history of Chasefu, he is the first hon. Minister to drive on that road, if it is worth calling a road as at now as it is in a deplorable state. This road has not been worked on. It has never seen a tarmac since independence. How soon will this contractor that has been procured start the works on this Lundazi/Chama Road?

 

Madam Speaker, Chama is now part of the Eastern Province.

 

Mr Kapyanga: There is no money.

 

Mr Nyambose: However, there is no connectivity right now. How do our friends mingle with us in the Eastern Province? The maintenance works from Egichikeni to Chama are not taking place. Are there any immediate measures to make the road passable for those people who have been connected to the Eastern Province to move easily?

 

Madam Speaker, we need the road to be tarred as at today or yesterday. We have suffered as the people of Chasefu.

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chasefu, Hon. Nyambose, for his kind words recognising that during the wet season, I was on that road all the way up to Matumbo. It is an indication of what the President of the Republic of Zambia feels for the people and the chiefs along that road.

 

Madam Speaker, when I was on that road, I diverted and visited Chief Magodi. Further on, after Chama, I visited Chief Kambombo. They all expressed similar sentiments that they were seeing an hon. Minister for the first time in a long time. This is an indication of what this New Dawn Government feels about that road.

 

Madam Speaker, first of all, definitely, between Lundazi and Chama, that road has to be worked on. A section of it has already been worked on, from Chama going towards Lundazi, but we need to do more to complete it.

 

Madam Speaker, there is also a need to ensure that all the bridges on that road are lifted because they are very low lying bridges. However, even though the need to ensure that, having moved Chama back into the Eastern Province, there is direct connectivity through Lundazi on to Chipata, it is even of greater economic significance to the country because it is part of the Matumbo/Chama/Lundazi and onward to Chipata. It will ensure that for the first time, if we have an international road on that route, traffic from Dar es salaam via Nakonde can cut-off something like over a thousand kilometres to go into Chipata and onwards into Malawi and Mozambique. So, we are fully aware of that and, therefore, believe that this road can also be a candidate for a PPP.

 

Madam Speaker, there is very little traffic on it, especially this time of the year. So, if someone goes there and counts the number of vehicles passing, he/she will get the wrong information – Hon. Kampyongo has left the Chamber– but everyone knows that if we have an international road across there, traffic will be phenomenon. So, we are actively considering that road.

 

Madam Speaker, in the meantime, the contractor that is on that road is the China Civil Engineering Construction Corporation Zambia Limited. Initially, the project was to re-scope from bituminous to standard all weather road with a revised contract sum of K164 million from an original contract price of K585 million or there about.

 

Madam Speaker, the progress, the hon. Member is right, has been slow. In fact, we put it at 5 per cent with the certified amounts of the project standing at about K70 million. We will do our best, and that is the one thing that I can assure the people. Even though our predecessors had re-scoped it down to a gravel road, during my tour of duty, I gave instructions that we must go back to a bituminous road of international standard.

 

Madam Speaker, this New Dawn Government is with the people of Lundazi, Chasefu, Chama South and Chama North. We will not let them down on that road.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I also wish to thank the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development for the responses he has given so far to the people of Chasefu.

 

Madam Speaker, I firstly commend the hon. Minister for the work that he is doing. We are following his work and believe that he has very good plans for the people of Zambia. We also do not doubt his passion for Public Private Partnership (PPP) in wanting to deliver development to the people of Zambia through that programme. However, what may be a challenge is the practicality of implementing PPP in some or most of these roads including the Chasefu/Chama Road. I am happy that Hon. Mutati is still a Member of the Cabinet and may be available to share the many challenges that we faced as a Government then in implementing these PPPs.

 

Madam Speaker, maybe, to save the hon. Minister’s time and trouble of having to explain to hon. Members who, many a time, bring these questions to this House; does he have any intentions to come to this House with a schedule of roads that he intends to put on the PPP programme?

 

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition has mentioned Hon. Mutati because he took over his constituency. Oh, not quite, but I think a neighbouring constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, I do confirm that Hon. Mutati is also on the Public Private Partnership (PPP) Council. So, we are gaining a lot of knowledge from him on that one.

 

Madam Speaker, I think the question from the Leader of the Opposition is very similar to that which was asked by the Opposition Whip that I should come with a list of those roads that we can do on PPPs. I answered it and said that we will be coming to the House on a case by case basis. What we have done, as the Government and PPP Council, is open up for interested parties to indicate what roads they want to do on a PPP.

 

Madam Speaker, we are getting expressed interests, for example, on the Matumbo/Chama/Lundazi Road. We are also getting interest on the Serenje/Mpika Road and other roads in the North-Western Province and so on and so forth.

 

Madam Speaker, I think we have to take it like that. If we open up, it means we close and we may leave out a particular road where somebody might want to undertake works not necessarily because of the toll fees from which they will recover. There are certain roads were people are saying, “We want this road because we are going to develop this economic activity and from that economic activity we shall recover our investment”. There are certain roads like that.

 

Madam Speaker, we are taking a holistic approach to PPP. The main reason we are doing that is that it can release pressure on the Treasury so that we can do other roads, when funds are available, that are not viable on a PPP model of funding.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms M. Phiri (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, as much as we appreciate the benefits that come with the Public Private Partnership (PPP) model, there are also challenges attached to it. What urgency is the hon. Minister attaching to road infrastructure? If the Government is not seeing the urgency, what about the partners that they are counting on?

 

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, what urgency are we attaching to PPP? At the moment, it is the only option open to us. I do not want again to take time in this House to explain the state of our economy, that we are an over-borrowed State. The Government, through the President and his economic team, is working flat-out to restructure the debt. These are serious matters. Until such time when we get on top of the debt, this country will not have sufficient resources to undertake some of these things. The PPP model provides us with, perhaps, the only model of financing that will enable us to carry out infrastructure development whilst we sort out the debt issue.

 

Madam Speaker, from the travels of the President, even when other people are questioning them, we are seeing benefits being lined up in terms of what we are going to do with the restructuring of the debt. We think that by midyear, we should be able to come back to this House and ask hon. Members for supplementary funding to undertake some infrastructure development.

 

Madam Speaker, the urgency is there, but there are processes. There is a law. There is the PPP Act that we have to follow. We are trying to ensure that within the limits of that law, we take as little time as possible. So, that is how urgently we take this matter.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: In view of the fact that we have expanded this question extensively and covered more questions than what was covered under Question No. 197, can we make some progress and go to the next Question.

 

ACQUISITION OF BUS FOR SENANGA NURSING SCHOOL

 

199. Mr Mulaliki (Senanga) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to procure a bus for the Senanga Nursing School to ease transport challenges; and
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to procure buses for public nursing schools across the country and the Senanga Nursing School is expected to benefit from this Government intervention.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government intends to procure busses in a phased manner for nursing schools to ease transport challenges and the procurement of busses is expected to commence by the second quarter of 2022.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munir Zulu (Lumezi): Madam Speaker, thank you, once more, for giving the good people of Lumezi Constituency an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Health a question on behalf of their brothers and sisters in Senanga Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has responded in the most simplistic manner to say, “We shall procure in the second quarter of 2022”. I must mention that the first quarter is almost reaching its end as we attend our Nc’wala Traditional Ceremony. What assurance is she giving the people of Senanga that the bus will be procured, and what should we do to her if that is not done in the second quarter?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, he should buy me a cow.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the procurement of these buses will be in phases. Now, the question was about a bus for the Senanga Nursing School. In which phase, if we could be assisted to know, is the Senanga Nursing School allocated to acquire the bus?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I am not sure if I got the question correctly. That answer relates to the Senanga Nursing School and I said that its bus would be procured in the second half of 2022. I also said that the programme for procuring buses for institutions that have nursing schools is a matter that we planned and budgeted for.

 

Madam Speaker, like many other issues that we have planned for and are dealing with in the first half and others in second half, it may even be possible that some of the issues which I am saying will be dealt with in the second half may materialise in the first half. However, I am just trying to make sure that we give ourselves enough room, because, like in many other things, there are processes.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: So, hon. Member for Lumezi, the correct answer was the second half of 2022 and not the first quarter.

 

Mr Mulaliki: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that clarification. The people at the Senanga Nursing School are obviously delighted that in the second quarter of 2022, they will receive a bus. My question is how many passengers is that bus expected to carry?

 

Madam Speaker: It is second half, not second quarter. So, second half means the third quarter, is it not so? As regards the number of passengers, hon. Minister, would you want to specify how many passengers the bus would accommodate?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, at the moment I am not 100 per cent sure, but I want to believe that it is the kind of buses we normally get for nursing institutions. It is not ordinarily the sixteen-seater buses, but the thirty-two-seater buses.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

COMPLETION OF WATER SUPPLY PROJECT IN MULENGA COMPOUND IN KAMFINSA CONSTITUENCY.

 

200. Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

 

1. when the water supply project in Mulenga Compound in Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency will be completed;
2. whether the funds for the outstanding works on the project have been sourced; and
3. what the cost of the outstanding works is.

 

The Minister of Water Development and Sanitation (Mr Mposha): Madam Speaker, the project in Mulenga Compound will be completed once funds are made available.

 

Madam Speaker, the funds for executing outstanding works are yet to be sourced.

 

The cost of the outstanding works is K9.6 million.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia are now getting worried. The issue of saying ‘when funds are available’ is coming out with no timeframe attached. Is the hon. Minister in a position to, at least, give us a timeframe because when he says ‘once funds are made available’, it is open-ended. We cannot continue to discuss serious national matters in this fashion. Can the hon. Minister, at least, answer the question of when those funds will be available?

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I sympathise with the hon. Member and wish I was in a position to give the timeframe. Owing to the well known fact that the projects we are talking about require funding and that the hon. Member is aware of how indebted our Treasury or our country is, the debt burden and debt situation has actually affected the implementation of many projects and, unfortunately, the water sector has not been spared. I wish the situation was any better.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I have taken note of the response that has been provided by the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation. If you may, allow me to indicate as I ask my follow-up question that Mulenga Compound is an unplanned settlement, and part of it was already provided with water. Half of the compound was given water. At the time the hon. Minister was being appointed as the hon. Minister of Water Development and Sanitation, the other half had not been attended to.

 

Madam Speaker, given that background and the answer which has been provided, it would be necessary that the hon. Minister responds with a specific action plan. We are in 2022, and 2023 and 2024 are coming. Which year will the ministry be able to mobilise those resources? When I look at K9.6 million, it is not a lot of money.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Mulenga Compound want to know, through this question, when the K9.6 million will be mobilised given the fact that we are neither asking for a K100 million nor a K500 million.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, again, I wish I could give a timeframe, but for reasons already explained, it is very difficult to do so. As regards the amount, the hon. Member may say that K9.6 million is not a lot of money, but I am looking at projects under my ministry which have stalled for a long time that range from as little as K1 million, or thereabouts, up to US$449 million. So, I am looking at all these various projects which have stalled, including the one under discussion in Mulenga Compound under Kamfinsa Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, the point here is that we must resolve the current debt situation and begin to have money flowing into these sectors so that we can revive those projects and the people can derive some benefit out of the many projects which will no longer be stalled.

 

Madam, I want to, again, assure the hon. Member of Parliament that we are not just sitting on those issues. We are working on them to ensure that the many projects that have stalled, including the one in Mulenga Compound, are revived and completed. I want to assure him, once more, that the project will be completed as and when we mobilise resources. However, I am not in a position to give a specific timeline.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, before asking my question, allow me to register my condolences, as this is my first time in the House, to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security on the loss of his son.

 

Madam, is the Government considering the possibility of borrowing to finance this important project considering how important water is to human life?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for the question and welcome him back to the House as he has not been around for some time. I welcome my brother.

 

Madam Speaker, our position as the Government has been very clear on borrowing. We need to resolve the huge debt that was left behind before we can, for lack of a better term, invite the appetite for borrowing for some more projects. I think it is important that we resolve the huge debt burden first before we can think of borrowing. For now, we will work with cooperating partners to continue pushing these projects, but we are not thinking of borrowing on top of what we have already borrowed in that direction.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

DEPLOYMENT OF ZNS OFFICERS ON THE BORDER CORRIDOR BETWEEN KIPUSHI AND CALEDONIA MINING

 

201. Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East) asked the Minister of Defence:

 

(a)        whether the Government has any plans to deploy the Zambia National Service to Caledonia Mining in Chililabombwe District to control rampant smuggling and deforestation in the area;

 

(b)        if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

 

(c)        if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Justice (Mr Haimbe) (on behalf of the Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma)):

Madam Speaker, the Zambia National Service (ZNS) is already deployed in Chililabombwe and reconnaissance will be done in the area and patrol extended.

 

Madam Speaker, as for the deforestation, the ministry is ready to work with the forestry department, if the need arises.

 

Madam, since the Government has already deployed the ZNS to Chililabombwe District, part (b) and (c) of the question have fallen off.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katakwe: Madam Speaker, as regards the deployment that the hon. Minister has talked about, on the ground, no Zambia National Service (ZNS) officers have been deployed. The hon. Minister is talking about Chililabombwe, but my constituency has a boundary with Chililabombwe and it is quite a long stretch. If one moves from Chililabombwe and gets to Chinfunshi, there is no presence of the ZNS for over seventy kilometres. The Congolese have freedom and just move in with their tipper trucks loaded with copper and bring them into Chililabombwe and Chingola. They also cut trees and load timber.

 

Madam, is the hon. Minister ready to take a ride with me in that area up to the border area so that he proves for himself that there is no presence of the ZNS that side?

 

Mr Haimbe: Madam Speaker, I believe that one of the things that have been mentioned in the response is that a reconnaissance of the area will be done. That essentially answers the question that has been put forward. Certainly, the matter that the hon. Member is raising is a matter of national security that cannot be left unchecked. The ministry is committed to ensuring the appropriate reconnaissance work is done and the proper position on the ground is established.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

SINKING OF BOREHOLES IN CHAMA SOUTH

 

202. Mr Mung’andu asked the Minister of Water Development and Sanitation:

 

(a)        whether the Government has any plans to sink boreholes in the following Chiefdoms in Chama South Parliamentary Constituency:

 

(i)         Chikwa;

 

(ii)        Tembwe; and

 

(iii)       Chifunda;

 

(b)        if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

 

(c)        how many boreholes are earmarked for sinking in each chiefdom.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to sink boreholes in Chikwa, Tembwe and Chifunda chiefdoms in Chama South Parliamentary Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented in the second and third quarters of the year 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, the numbers of boreholes earmarked for sinking in each of the three chiefdoms are as follows:

 

         Name of Chiefdoms     Number of Boreholes

 

         Chikwa                        08

 

         Tembwe                      13

 

         Chifunda                     02

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that inspiring response.

 

Madam Speaker, would I be right to assure the people of those chiefdoms; Tembwe, Chikwa and Chifunda, that before the end of this year, they will receive those numbers of boreholes that that the hon. Minister mentioned?

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, I am grateful that I am being given an opportunity to ask –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, resume your seat.

 

The hon. Minister has not answered the question from the hon. Member for Chama South. I apologise.

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chama South sought to get an assurance that the boreholes in question will be sunk this year. I want to assure the people of Chama South Parliamentary Constituency and the hon. Member of Parliament that these works will be undertaken within the course of this year.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Munir Zulu: Madam Speaker, the question that was posed was quite open in the sense that we do not know whether the boreholes we are talking about are industrial or commercial.

 

Madam Speaker, as you are aware, boreholes, if sank next to each other within a certain proximity, are a source of certain diseases like Dysentery and Typhoid. Are the boreholes that the Government intends to sink in Chama South industrial or domestic?

 

Mr Mposha: Madam Speaker, I want to believe that the hon. Member for Lumezi knows the type of boreholes we have been sinking in various constituencies. Basically, these are boreholes that are meant for domestic purposes. In terms of his worry, usually, chiefdoms are quite wide spread with a big population. So, the way the boreholes are set is that they are really not put up next to each other in one line, but in the various villages of that chiefdom. So, that is to just allay that fear.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

REDUCTION OF RETIREMENT AGE

 

203. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to reduce the retirement age;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. what the new retirement age will be.

 

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Tambatamba): Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government has plans to review the entire social security system with the aim of achieving a responsive system that addresses the needs of the members while taking into account principles of affordability, sustainability and adequacy of the pension benefits.

 

Madam Speaker, the issue of retirement age is only but one parameter in the whole pension reform agenda, which has to be looked at together with other parameters such as accrual and contribution rates while taking into account demographic and statistical data.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government is currently developing a roadmap to the reforms and the final roadmap was expected at the end of January, and is available. The roadmap will provide or does provide for the time lines for the implementation of various activities that have been outlined therein.

 

Madam Speaker, it is important to note that all pension reform parameters, including the final retirement age, shall be clear upon completion of the pension design after taking into account consultations and actuarial recommendations.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I do get the responses from the hon. Minister. However, I would like to get some clarity on the roadmap which the hon. Minister talked about. This roadmap is in view of making things better. According to the roadmap, when will it give a full view to the citizens so that they know all about it?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, a roadmap has many facets to attend to and one of the key aspects that we have in that roadmap is the consultations with our tripartite partners who include the workers’ representatives as well as the employers’ representatives. Once we take this roadmap to the Tripartite Consultative Labour Council (TCLC), and we agree and approve it, we will be able to determine the next step.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, the current trend is that we have the early retirement and the normal retirement, which is the late retirement where you find a worker is given to retire at either fifty-five, sixty or there about. That brings confusion in the group of workers. Why can the Government not come out clearly so that we know or workers know the retirement age instead of saying there is early retirement and actual retirement?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, certainly. The roadmap that we have talked about, which is about reforming the whole pension system, seeks to look at every lacuna and grey area to ensure that members of the public are given a product that is responsive and that meets their needs. So, through that reform process, I believe stakeholders will be able to give contributions on which basis we will be able to clarify many of those areas that are in high demand of a need to review or reform.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the answers given by the hon. Minister.

 

Madam, is the Government ready to state whether there will actually be a reduction in the retirement age from the current sixty-five to fifty-five years, at the risk of sounding cynical?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, may the hon. Member recast slowly the question so that I am able to understand.

 

Mr Chisanga: Madam Speaker, my question is whether the Government will be considering reducing the retirement age from sixty-five to fifty-five years, in specifics.

 

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, in the first place, I acknowledge the fact that at either end of the retirement age, the lower and the upper or the early and the later, there are advantages and disadvantages. Therefore, it is up to the members of the public and the stakeholders through the consultation that we will undertake.

 

Madam Speaker, we should look at both the advantages and the disadvantages and ensure that we get to a place where we maximise or optimise the benefits to the pensioners.

 

Madam Speaker, I dare not make assumptions because when one goes out early, there are issues. When one goes out late, there are also issues. However, there is certainly one of them that can leverage much more benefits to the members of a pension scheme.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

CONSTRUCTION OF MINI HOSPITAL IN MAMBILIMA

 

204. Ms Chisenga (Mambilima) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a mini hospital in Mambilima Parliamentary Constituency;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
3. what the time frame for the completion of the project is; and
4. if there are no such plans, why.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a mini-hospital in the Mambilima Parliamentary Constituency.

 

Madam Speaker, the construction of the Kashiba Mini-Hospital commenced in September 2021 and, so far, 50 per cent of the works have been done.

 

Madam Speaker, the time frame for the completion of the project is six months. The House may wish to note that the project is expected to be completed by the end of March 2022.

 

Madam Speaker, as stated above, the Government has plans to construct a mini hospital in Mambilima and, therefore, part (d) of the question falls off.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Chisenga: Madam Speaker, I am thankful to the hon. Minister for her responses. As she has alluded to, the mini hospital is actually under construction and the people who are working on the project are still on site.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, how long will it take, after the mini hospital is completed, for it to be operational? That also goes for many other hospitals that have been completed. How long does it take for them to be operational and have establishments of members of staff befitting mini hospitals?

 

Ms Masebo: Madam Speaker, although it is a different question, I will try to answer it.

 

Madam Speaker, considering that this project is expected to finish within six months, which I said would be by the end of March, by that time, we would have had more health workers employed. If that be the case, the question that would need to be considered is whether the people that would have been employed by then would have been allocated to a hospital that would have just been completed seeing as there are many other hospitals that would have been constructed that would not have been fully operational on account of not enough health staff.

 

Madam Speaker, I need to remind the house that at the time we started talking about human resource, we told the house that the current establishment of the Ministry of Health is at 46 per cent, meaning that we are still short of something like 54 per cent. When you look at the number that we are going to employ this year, 11,200, the establishment would only have been raised to something like 56 to 58 per cent. That means we will still have a shortage. This is why, if you recall, I did say even then that the current budget that we are following is the Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) period of three years and that the actions we are taking this year must be followed next year. Hopefully, by the third year, we said, we would be smiling and saying, yes , now we are at our optimum level.

 

Madam Speaker, there will still be issues to be resolved. Therefore, I would not really, at this moment in time, commit myself to this health post that will be finishing only in March and it might be earlier, in February this month or it might even be a bit late, say in May. So, at that stage, we will have to wait and see what will happen.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mpundu (Chembe): Madam Speaker, this mini-hospital that is being constructed in Mambilima, is it inclusive of a mortuary? I ask so because there are some mini-hospitals like the one in Chembe that do not have a mortuary. Is this mini hospital that you are talking about going to have a mortuary?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the mini hospitals that were constructed did not include mortuaries, but the Government is looking at that issue. One of the things we have said in a number of places where we have been and have seen the need, is that we have actually taken a new position that we must start looking at ensuring that where there are no mortuaries nearby, we fix them.

 

Madam Speaker, as regards the one which is being built, I am not sure whether it has a mortuary except to say that a standard mini hospital does not have a mortuary.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Katakwe (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I just want to find out whether the Ministry of Health has intentions to involve the provincial and district health teams in the design and construction of this mini hospital. In the past, technocrats not involved, as in my district. As a result, you find that the admission point –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, let us concentrate on Mambilima.

 

Mr Katakwe: Yes, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: I do not know what –

 

Mr Katakwe: Will the design have a separate maternity side as opposed to the one where an eighteen bed admission area sits just next to the maternity ward? How is this design going to be? Will it be different from what we have seen around the country?

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, the contract for the construction of mini hospitals was already signed and the design already agreed upon. So, basically, what we are doing is just implementing. Like I have said, as we go round, we find issues. So, we try to deal with the issues as we see them, looking at what is available in terms of health service delivery.

Madam Speaker, we cannot change midstream because the costing was already done. Any changes to the designs at this stage would require extra resources. So, the answer is, no.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, I seek your indulgence in asking this question because these matters are very much related.

 

Madam, the design of mini hospitals was uniform countrywide and most of the situations at the mini hospital in Mambilima are applicable elsewhere, including in Nyakuleng’a in Zambezi.

 

What I want to know particularly, from the hon. Minister of Health, is whether there has been that collaboration between her ministry and the Ministry of Energy to ensure that that hospital is also powered with electricity either using the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) or other means. A similar hospital in Nyakuleng’a, which was nicely built, is sitting without electricity. Does the hon. Minister have that collaboration so that that hospital is electrified?

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister will answer in relation to Mambilima only and not Nyakuleng’a.

 

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, these issues cut across, even as we look at Mambilima. If a mini hospital is being built in an area where there is availability of power, there is no issue, but if it is being built in an area where the national grid is totally out of the way, then we begin to consider other sources of energy.

 

Madam Speaker, this year, we have planned and budgeted for some electrification programmes countrywide except that resources may not be sufficient to cover all health facilities, but some will be electrified. We are also trying to work with our cooperating partners to see whether we can come up with a national programme which will basically take into account all our rural health centres, wherever there is no power.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

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MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Nalumango): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed.

 

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The House adjourned at 1905 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 24^th February, 2022.

 

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