Wednesday, 3rd November, 2021

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Wednesday, 3rd November, 2021

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

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A MATTER OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE BY THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION AND MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MPOROKOSO PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY, MR MUNDUBILE, ON THE ARREST OF THREE PATRIOTIC FRONT MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT

 

Mr Mundubile: Madam Speaker, I rise on a Matter of Urgent Public Importance as per Standing Order No. 134. 

 

Madam Speaker, in the past few weeks, I rose on a point of order in which I wondered why the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security remained silent when citizens were being harassed and assaulted around the courts. You directed that he comes with a position. He came and assured us that the New Dawn Government was going to govern using the rule of law, whereby citizens where going to be free, to use his own words. He said all the citizens would be free.

 

Madam Speaker, we have noted with concern that in the recent past, hon. Members of Parliament from the Patriotic Front (PF) Party are facing arrests every other day. It is a pattern that we have watched in silence, and we were hoping that it would come to an end. We are going through a very important stage in the parliamentary cycle of approving the Budget, which is one of our key responsibilities.

 

Madam Speaker, at the same time, we are not saying hon. Members of Parliament are above the law. We are not saying hon. Members of Parliament should escape the effects of the law using Parliament. What is of concern is that hon. Members of Parliament are being arrested on frivolous charges. They are arbitrary arrests.

 

Madam Speaker, we mentioned on the Floor of the House that we have just come from an election that was marred with violence. There are a number of complaints at various police stations from both the Opposition and the Ruling Party. These arrests have taken a certain pattern. It is a pattern whereby ordinary citizens against whom reports have been made are walking freely in their localities, but hon. Members have been made to leave Parliament to go and report themselves to the police.

 

Madam Speaker, we took the assurance by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security seriously that under the New Dawn Government, people were going to be free.

 

Madam Speaker, the President of this Republic, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, said that this is a New Dawn Government under which every citizen was going to be free. He said he was going to make a change and that they were going to make a difference. Little did we know that the difference that was going to be made was to work against hon. Members of Parliament, national leaders, who would be arrested on very suspicious charges all with the aim of instilling fear and intimidation in hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Madam Speaker, as hon. Members of Parliament, we are representatives of the people. The messages that we carry are from the people. You can change the messenger, but you cannot change the message. Arresting Mr Chitotela, Mr Chilangwa, and Mr Kalalwe Mukosa will not change the message of the people of Chinsali nor that of the people of Kawambwa.

 

Madam Speaker, I have brought this matter on the Floor of the House because hon. Members of Parliament are national leaders, who hold very important and dignified positions. I have been very quick to mention that they are not above the law. Our concern is that even at a time when the President has assured the nation that this fight would not be tribal, it has, however, taken a pattern that is very suspicious.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mundubile: We have to be honest with each other. Let us take an audit.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mundubile: Let us mention the names of the people who have been arrested. We all can take an audit or check who has been arrested. The President warned us. The President warned that this would not be tribal.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Let us wait for the hon. Leader of the Opposition to raise his point, then, we will respond.

 

Mr Mundubile: The facts are there. You cannot change the facts because they speak for themselves. The President said that this fight would not be tribal and we remained quiet. The pattern is clear. We cannot hide our evidence even when something is very clear.

 

Madam Speaker, my Matter of Urgent Public Importance, therefore, is: Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to remain silent whilst his fellow dignified hon. Members of Parliament, who were chosen by the people and are representing the people here in this dignified House, continue to be harassed by the police? Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order not to tell the nation whether or not we are in a police State now where we are no longer under the rule of law, but a rule according to the police?

 

Madam Speaker, I need your very serious ruling on this matter.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you, hon. Leader of the Opposition, for raising that Matter of Urgent Public Importance. The hon. Members of Parliament who have been arrested are part and parcel of this honourable House and, therefore, there is a need for the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security to brief the House on what exactly is happening to these hon. Members who have been arrested.

 

I will, therefore, direct that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security comes back to this House on Tuesday, next week, to render a statement to explain to this honourable House why these hon. Members have been arrested.

 

That is my ruling.

 

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RULING BY MADAM SPEAKER

 

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY DR C. K. KALILA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LUKULU EAST PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY AGAINST MR R. NAKACINDA OVER STATEMENTS ATTRIBUTED TO MR R. NAKACINDA IN AN ARTICLE ENTITLED “STOP BEING EMOTIONAL, NAKACINDA TELLS SPEAKER” PUBLISHED IN THE DAILY NATION NEWSPAPER, ISSUE NO. 3074, DATED TUESDAY, 5TH OCTOBER, 2021

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Monday, 6th October, 2021, when the House was considering the ministerial statement by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, Hon. B. C. Kabuswe and Mr A. C. Mumba, Member of Parliament for Kantanshi Parliamentary Constituency was on the Floor, Dr C. K. Kalila, Member of Parliament for Lukulu East Parliamentary Constituency, raised a point of order against Mr R. Nakacinda, member of the Patriotic Front (PF) party Central Committee.

 

The point of order was based on an article entitled “Stop being emotional, Nakacinda tells Speaker” published in the Daily Nation newspaper, Issue No. 3074, dated Tuesday, 5th October, 2021. In the said article, Mr R. Nakacinda is alleged to have reflected on the impartiality of the Speaker in the discharge of the Speaker’s duties. In the point of order, Dr C. K. Kalila, MP, asked the following questions:

 

  1. whether Mr R. Nakacinda, who was a member of the Central Committee of the PF party, was in order to cast aspersions on the Speaker and her Office, thereby calling into question her impartiality and character; and
  2. whether by making the statements attributed to him in the newspaper article, Mr R. Nakacinda was not in contempt of the House.

 

In my immediate response to the point of order, I reserved my ruling to enable me to consider and investigate the matter.

 

Hon. Members, having considered the matter and given the serious issues raised in the point of order, I, in accordance with Section 28(5) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, Cap 12 of the Laws of Zambia, refer the matter to the Committee on Privileges and Absences for detailed examination.

 

I thank you.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

SHOOTINGS AT KATIMA MULILO BORDER POST WITH NAMIBIA

 

The Minister of Defence (Mr Lufuma): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to issue a ministerial statement on the Matter of Urgent Public Importance in accordance with Standing Order No. 134, raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero, Hon. Miles Sampa on the Article entitled: “Shootings at Katima Mulilo” which appeared in the Zambia Daily Mail Volume No. 25 of Wednesday, 27th October, 2021.

 

Madam Speaker, the article in question stated:

 

“Business at Katima Mulilo Border Post with Namibia was disrupted yesterday after suspected Namibian police officers fired shots to disperse cross border traders who allegedly tried to force their way into that country. Three shots allegedly fired by the Namibians on Zambian soil were heard and the Zambian police officers managed to pick up one empty cartridge. A video of the incident was immediately shared on various social media platforms.”

 

Madam Speaker, let me begin by informing this august House that the incident that happened at Katima Mulilo Border Post on 26th October, 2021 does not in any way amount to conflict between Zambia and Namibia as the two nations enjoy a warm and cordial relationship.

 

Madam Speaker, as the Ministry of Defence, we are in receipt of a report on what happened on that material day of 26th October, 2021, at approximately 0900 hours. On this day, Zambian illegal money changers at Katima Mulilo Border Post in Sesheke District rioted against the Namibian police for not allowing them to operate or trade at no man’s land.

 

The incident occurred when Namibian police officers tried to push back the money changers and vendors in the no man’s land between Zambia and Namibia, who extended their trade on the Namibian border. However, this was not received well by the money changers who decided to retaliate by throwing stones at the Namibian police officers. As a result, two police officers were injured and three Zambians were arrested.

 

During the pursuit of the money changers, Namibian police officers fired three shots close to the Zambian border and an empty cartridge was picked on the Zambian side. During the altercation, the money changers confiscated handcuffs and a reflective jacket from one of the Namibian police officers which were later returned.

 

Madam Speaker, you may wish to know that the Sesheke District Joint Operations Committee (DJOC) was informed and rushed to the scene to intervene together with their Namibian counterparts led by the regional commander for the Namibian police of the Zambezi region. The matter was resolved amicably through a fruitful meeting between the two parties.

 

Madam Speaker, during the joint meeting between the Sesheke DJOC and the Namibian police of the Zambezi region, the following observations were made:

 

  1. the Zambian illegal money changers were trading on the no man’s land and extended their trading to the Namibian gate, which was wrong;
  2. the Namibian police officers who crossed the no man’s land and fired three gun shots in the air, where an empty cartridge was picked on the Zambian side, were also at fault;
  3. the Namibian police regional commander for the Zambezi region admitted that his police officers erred when they fired shots close to the Zambian side and indicated that they would be disciplined accordingly; and
  4. it was observed that smuggling activities were rife at the no man’s land, especially by vendors and taxi drivers.

 

Madam Speaker, further, this joint meeting made the following resolutions:

 

  1. no illegal money changers and vendors should be allowed to trade on the no man’s land with immediate effect;
  2. taxi drivers, especially those carrying heavy luggage to and from either side, needed to be controlled and monitored by the customs and immigration departments of both countries; and
  3. both countries also needed to deploy police officers in the no man’s land to curb illegal trading activities.

 

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I assure the nation that the outcome of the Sesheke DJOC meeting with their Namibian counterpart was beneficial as it gave a platform for both countries to express their views on issues regarding the security concerns. The issue is settled and there is peace and order in the area. I will repeat: The issue is settled and there is peace and order in the area. Lastly, may I reiterate that the Zambian Government remains committed and still stands ready to continue resolving all border issues with its neighbours in a peaceful manner.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, I have listened to the statement by the hon. Minister of Defence. However, in the report or statement, I have not clearly heard the position of the Zambian police at the scene. Was there no police officer deployed to operate in that area? It seems that incident occurred because of lack of police patrols.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, at the time of the incident, unfortunately, there were no police patrols and this is why, if you heard correctly in my report, we would like to encourage and ensure that there is police presence at all times. During this incidence, unfortunately, the police were not available, but they had to rush unto the scene after the same was reported.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister stated that the cause of this fracas was some illegal activities that take place at Katima Mulilo, such as illegal money changing, smuggling and other negative vices. After the incident, the two teams from the District Joint Operations Committee (DJOC) on the Zambian and Namibian sides came together to pacify this issue.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister how often our DJOC holds meetings with their Namibian counterparts to ensure that there is always peace, smooth cooperation and trade between the two countries or is he saying that we are always going to wait for such incidents before we hold meetings? Could he kindly shed more light on the frequency of the meetings that are held between the two DJOCs and what measures is his ministry taking to ensure that there is no recurrence of this incident?

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for that very important question by the hon. Member. What measures are we taking as Ministry of Defence to ensure the same does not occur? In the recommendations which I read out are the outlined measures. We are going to ensure that we have security officers on both the Zambian side as well as the Namibian side to monitor and ensure such trade, in the first place, does not take place in the so-called ‘no man’s land’. If some of these traders stray into ‘no man’s land’, there should be immediate action against such traders from either the Namibian side or and the Zambian side.

 

Madam Speaker, pertaining to meetings, the DJOC under the leadership of the District Commissioner regularly holds these meetings, especially when there is an indication that there is some sort of unrest in the area. The regularity of these meetings, according to plan, is to at least meet on a quarterly basis. However, obviously during this last period due to the activities that were happening in Zambia, which activities we are all aware of, the elections and the election fever, these scheduled meetings, unfortunately, did not take place. They are going to resume, and ensure that peace and order prevails.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I do appreciate the statement from the hon. Minister of Defence and the subsequent answers he is providing. The illegal money exchange trade at that border is a common phenomenon. It is not a one-off activity. It is trade that goes on for some time and trends can be monitored by either side. Our security wings have working arrangements with their counterparts on how they undertake operations. I am happy the hon. Minister has mentioned that the police command on the other side have undertaken to discipline those overzealous officers who could have discharged firearms on the civilians. Is this a matter the hon. Minister intends to scale up to the Joint Permanent Commission (JPC) as they meet so that they could provide proper guidance to the men on the ground?

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, who is a former hon. Minister of Home Affairs. So he is quite conversant with what we are talking about.

 

Madam Speaker, discharging a firearm by security officers from another country into the other country is against international law. As the hon. Member rightly said, to ensure that this does not happen again, we shall scale it up and discuss it at that level.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mulakili (Senanga): Madam Speaker, I am so grateful to the hon. Minister of Defence for his elaborate response on the matter. Our people in Senanga do a lot of their trading at Katima Mulilo Border and there is a very big complaint to do with victimisation on the part of Namibian police and soldiers. No wonder we are in a situation where the Namibian police ended up discharging firearms on our soil. The hon. Minister of Defence has indicated that truly it was wrong that the Namibian police discharged firearms on our soil and he has assured us that going forward, that will not happen. What if these incidents continue happening because our people need to be satisfied that they are protected?

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member very much for that insightful question which is basically looking into the future. Yes, the Namibian police were at fault when they discharged bullets unto the Zambian side, but you must also understand that they did not just start firing from nowhere. The illegal traders started attacking and throwing stones at the police, which obviously was also not exactly appreciated by the Namibian police. Hence, the shooting that took place. They shot in the air.

 

Madam Speaker, so, what is important is I think for both sides to recognise that Zambia and Namibia should live in harmony. We are brothers and sisters and this is simply trade. They need something from us and we need something from them. We should co-exist and that is the message that we want to put across to both the police on the other side and the security on our side as well as the population or community on our side and the community on the other side. We should live in harmony because incidents like this can escalate into something nasty and we do not want to see that.

 

Madam Speaker, the negotiations or meetings that took place were regional, that is between the District Commissioner (DC) and the governor. However, we should go higher than that so that there are meetings on harmony between Namibia and Zambia. We have our embassies there and we want to instruct them to take it up so that it is discussed at a higher level than the regional level at which the same was discussed. Nevertheless, be mindful that even at regional level, they reached an amicable solution. So we do not see further possibilities of agitation between the two sides.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, the United Party for National Development (UPND is a Government that has premised its rule on the rule of law. The hon. Minister just mentioned that the happenings at that border post are illegal, among them, illegal money changing. I want to know what action was taken on those that were changing money on that particular day and those who might have continued changing money illegally, causing the two nations to be at loggerheads.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, as one hon. Member mentioned here, this is the phenomenon that is not unique to the Namibian/Zambian Border. It is countrywide. It is not only countrywide, but I think it is worldwide. You would always find this illegal trade in currency at border lines. As the United Party for National Development (UPND), obviously we want to discourage that so that this trade goes through the rightful financial channels. As you may understand, it is very difficult to curb such illegal trade. However, we continue to position our security forces, the police and from now onwards, especially vis-a-vis, this border line that we are talking about. There will be constant police presence, and as I mentioned in my statement nobody will be allowed to trade currency illegally at these borders. We shall obviously extend that to the other borders.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker

 

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, this illegal money changing business is what brought the fracas at our border. What is the hon. Minister of Defence doing in order to avert this illegal money trading at the border post? For example, is the ministry bringing in institutions of Government such as banks to take up this business so that our colleagues who are doing cross border business can conduct their business smartly to avoid this illegality? Of course the police and other defence forces cannot allow this illegality to continue. They had to step in which resulted in this fracas. What are the governments on both our side and the Namibian side doing to bring in legitimate institutions to take up the role of this money exchanging business in order to avert this illegality? I submit.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, we should know that it is not the lack of financial institutions at border lines that encourages illegal money trading. The financial institutions which facilitate the exchange of money are there. They are present. The only hustle is this that this is a way of livelihood by the people just like smuggling is a way of livelihood by the people. It is not because institutions that are supposed to facilitate trade are not there. They are there, but people choose to smuggle. So, it is not these financial institutions that are a problem because they are there. The only way to curb this, is to increase the presence of police in these areas. As I said, we want to ensure that on both sides, the taxi drivers and the illegal money traders are not allowed in the no man’s land. So, if you want to trade or exchange currency, you exchange currency on one side. If you are in Zambia, you exchange on the Zambian side and if you are in Namibia you exchange on the Namibian side. The institutions are there. So we shall encourage and sensitise the people who use those facilities to ensure that they do exactly that. Use the financial institutions that are established at these border areas.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

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QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

150 CHACHACHA HOUSES ON VERGE OF COLLAPSE

 

67.     Mr Mpundu (Nkana) asked the Vice President:

 

  1. whether the Government is aware that more than 150 houses in Chachacha area in Nkana Parliamentary Constituency are on the verge of collapse; and
  2. if so, what urgent measures are being taken to prevent loss of lives and property, especially with the onset of the rainy season.

 

The Government Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this House that Government is aware about the worrying state of the 150 affected houses in Chachacha area in Nkana Parliamentary Constituency. Following receipt of reports on an onsite assessment undertaken by a combined team of officers from the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) and the Government Valuation Department (GVD), the Mine Safety Department also undertook an assessment which established that the said houses had developed cracks mainly due to effects of mining activities in the area.

 

 Madam Speaker, the hon. Members of this august House may further wish to note that the affected residents had sued Mopani Copper Mines for compensation. However, the case was dismissed as the law suit was taken out of time. The residents appealed the ruling and the case has not yet been disposed off. As such, the matter is still active in the courts of law. In the mean time, my office, through the DMMU and the Resettlement Department, is exploring ways to find a long term solution once the matter in court is disposed off while addressing the immediate needs.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

 

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask a follow up question, following the response provided to the House.

 

Madam Speaker, the last response indicates that the Government is exploring ways of dealing with this matter after the court decides its fate. The answer does not respond to the urgent need to find interventions. I would like to find out from the Government what urgent step will be taken. I am making this contribution because I was privileged to have served as Mayor of the City of Kitwe at a time when this matter was quite active before the court, and I know that it is still active before the court. So, what urgent step will be taken considering that we still have a crisis that needs to be averted even as we wait for the court to determine the case? I think the court will determine the issue of compensation, but the issue pertaining to the safety of our people in the City of Kitwe or securing their livelihood needs to be addressed quite urgently.

 

 Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, it is clear that this case is in court and the only way the Government will deal with the matter is to wait for the court case to finish. As for the immediate assistance to the community, the Government is helping by providing food to the community. That is the only way the Government can help for now.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, it is important to ask the Government important questions so that we find answers. Is the Government aware that the houses in Chachacha Township and Nkana West are in a similar state? Has the Government taken stock of the houses affected, taking into account that the mining activities have not only affected the people of Chachacha Compound, but Nkana West as well?

 

 Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, we are specifically dealing with Chachacha. Samples from social infrastructure like schools, churches, a clinic and police posts which were in close proximity to the Mindolo Sub-Vertical Shaft and Area D Open Pit of Mopani Copper Mines where Mopani Copper Mines was conducting mining activities of blasting and hauling of copper from the ground were assessed and evaluated. So, the Government took time to go and assess the situation just in one place, which is Chachacha. I am not privy to any other information.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, we are talking about a calamity in waiting and from the answers, there seems to be no immediate action that shall be taken for the people of Chachacha whom I sympathise with. Could the Acting Leader of Government Business categorically state whether the people of Chachacha should wait for a calamity to happen for action to be taken or will the Government move in immediately and, maybe, provide tents and other things for it to save their lives?

 

 Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, obviously, the case is in court and the people of Chachacha would not want to move now until the case is disposed off so that they can use the area as an exhibit in court. Since the case is still in court, the people would want to give evidence and show the court the damaged houses for them to fight for compensation. So, the Government is ready to find an alternative area for the people, but it would love the court case to finish.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mpundu: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for providing the people of Nkana this opportunity to address this very urgent and important issue. It is a very well known fact that the matter is in court and, perhaps, the House needs to note that the High Court misapplied itself because in its ruling, it stated that this matter was brought to court late. Now, the fact is that Mopani Copper Mines started its operations in 2000.

 

 Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 

 Since the fact that the matter is in court, we cannot discuss it in this honourable House. Let us just discuss the measures the Government is taking to avert the situation as is the question.

 

  Mr Mpundu: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guidance.

 

 Madam Speaker, I am bothered that past and present governments keep running away from their responsibilities. It has been two years since an undertaking was taken not only by members of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) from the Vice-President President’s Office, but including hon. Members who were sent by the Vice-President from this august House. I find it very difficult that in two years, the Government would still say that it is exploring ways to address this problem. However, we are looking at averting a possible disaster. The number of houses in question is 187, whose population should be around 1,000. It has been two years since a comprehensive study to assess the severity of the situation was undertaken. Is the Acting Leader of Government Business, two years down the line, in order to continue telling the people of Chachacha that the Government is still exploring ways to address that problem? I seek your serious indulgence.          

 

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, obviously, the New Dawn Government has just been in power for less than three months. I know that the able leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia cares about the welfare of the people of Zambia, and specifically the people of Chachacha who we believe have suffered for a long time. I know that the Government will soon find a lasting solution for them, which is to give them an alternative area where they can settle for a long time. So, for now, we will wait for the court case to finish.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the houses in Chachacha were damaged because of the mining activities that are taking place near the area. Could this be an eye opener for the Government to start taking stock of what is obtaining in various mining places. I say so because in my constituency, Roan Parliamentary Constituency, the same is obtaining where mining activities such as open pit mining are being undertaken 50 metres away from the residences. Is the Government going to be proactive now that houses have been damaged in Chachacha? Will the Government extend its tentacles to ensure that this does not happen in other mining places, especially that our humble hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in his Budget Speech stated that we want to increase copper production from 800,000 metric tonnes to 3 million metric tonnes?

 

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, I think the Government is aware of many problems, especially when it comes to mining. In view of the problems not only on the Copperbelt, but in every area near the mine, I think the relevant ministries will engage councils to ensure that settlement areas are revised, knowing that mining areas have a larger part before settling people. So, I am sure the New Dawn Government is on it.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Wamunyima (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, I would like to clearly state that the issue the people of Chachacha are facing is not a really a legal issue. When there is a calamity where people can lose their lives, the time frame of a legal issue may be indefinite because, obviously, there are court cases.  The New Dawn Government found this problem. It is a historical problem and that is a well known fact, but the approach must be considered from a social welfare point of view. If people died, would we wait for a legal issue surely? So, this is a social welfare issue. Is the Acting Leader of Government Business willing to take immediate steps to prevent a possible calamity without referring to a legal issue? What is going to happen if people die and the issue is still in court?

 

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government is a government of laws and it respects the courts. Every time there is a court case, I think it is just honourable that we wait for it to be concluded. However, the other way is that the hon. Member for Nkana can engage the people and find a solution that he can present to the Government. If the people are able to withdraw the case, which I believe is not possible at this time, the hon. Member can engage the Office of the Vice-President to know where the people can be taken for resettlement. So, that way, I think it is quicker for the Government to act.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mpundu: Madam Speaker, the Government operates as a going concern. The New Dawn Government must not tell this House that it is starting to handle this issue at hand today. The Acting Leader of Government Business gave us answers today because there are officers who have been actively dealing with this matter for as far back as two years. I am at pains to –

 

Mr Kapyanga: Lila mwaiche!

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: What is your question hon. Member?

 

Mr Mpundu: I am building up my question, Madam Speaker. I am at pains to hear the answer that the Government is studying the matter and will come back to the House to give a report. Is the Acting Leader of Government Business’ insincerity that the people of Chachacha are receiving support –

 

Mr Munsanje: Your Government failed the people.

 

Mr Mpundu: May I be protected, Madam Speaker. The running comments are not necessary. We are dealing with an issue –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, just ask your question on points of clarification. Do not debate your question.

 

Mr Mpundu: Madam Speaker, even if I am going to ask my question, I need to be protected.

 

Madam Speaker, the Acting Leader of Government Business told this House that the Government is providing support to the residents of Chachacha. We are not aware. Is the Government, through the Acting Leader of Government Business, correct to mislead this House that it is providing support to the residents of Chachacha?

 

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, for the record, the Government, through the DMMU’s Valuation Department and the Mines Safety Department, undertook an assessment in that area and I am sure at that time, my brother was still the District Commissioner (DC) for Kitwe.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, it is just prudent that as a new Government, we sit to understand the case and get reports from those departments. The hon. Member is invited to engage the Government, through the Office of the Vice-President, so that he finds a lasting solution. The reports are there and I am sure the hon. Member was part of the team that went to evaluate the disaster in Chachacha. It is important that he comes to the office that is open every day, so that he finds a lasting solution for the people of Chachacha.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Member for Nkana is very happy with that suggestion.

 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker, in 2019, I was part of the Cabinet Affairs Committee that actually visited Chachacha during which time the then District Commissioner (DC), who is current the hon. Member, took us on a conducted tour of the houses which we are discussing today together with the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). When we came back, we wrote and tabled a report before Parliament and the Government about the state of affairs and made specific recommendations, which report is available. Is the Acting Vice-President in a position to tell us why the Government failed to rectify that problem?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Order! We all make mistakes. The hon. Acting Leader of Government Business.

 

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, it is the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House and not the Acting Vice-President. I am sure the New Dawn Government is looking at this issue very seriously and steadily. Very soon, the Government will provide a way forward.  Of course with the help of the hon. Member of Parliament, whom I believe will engage Her Honour the Vice-President very soon.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

CHIENGE POLICE STATION LAND CRUISER

 

68. Rev.  Katuta (Chienge) asked the Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security:

 

  1. why the Toyota Land Cruiser for Chienge Police Station in Chienge District which was brought to Lusaka for servicing almost 4 years ago has not been returned to Chienge;
  2. when the motor vehicle will be returned;
  3. whether the Government has any plans to procure a new motor vehicle for the Police Station to enhance its operations; and
  4. If so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

The Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security (Mr Mwiimbu): Madam Speaker, the motor vehicle has not been returned to Chienge because it was reassigned to Luapula Division Headquarters in Mansa District. This was after the vehicle was modified into a special operations vehicle to enhance operations in the division.

 

Madam Speaker, another Toyota Land Cruiser has been allocated to Chienge Police Station. The Government has plans to allocate additional motor vehicles to Chienge Police Station. The plans will be implemented when resources are made available.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr E. Tembo (Feira): Madam Speaker, I want to find out whether the Government has been able to look around all districts, particularly rural districts like Luangwa District, to ensure that vehicles there are either working or, where there are none, it provides, at least, one.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Feira, is that in relation to Chienge as regards the question that is on the Table, Question No. 68 on a Toyota Land Cruiser in Chienge District or it is just a general question? If it is a general question –

 

Mr E. Tembo: Madam Speaker, it is a follow up question because this problem is widespread beyond Chienge.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I just want to state one very important matter as I respond to the question that has been raised by the hon. Member for Feira pertaining to the importance of having police transport in police stations. 

 

Madam Speaker, you may not be aware that as a result of the provision of transportation to the police in the previous regime, we were able, at the time when need arose, to transport Hon. Kangombe using a land cruiser from Lusaka to Chinsali. Hon. Kangombe was an hon. Member of this House and the issue of tribe did not arise at the time. Hon. Syakalima was arrested in Livingstone and Hon. Nkombo too was arrested and issues of tribe never came up at the time.

 

Mr Kangombe: Yes.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: However, we emphasised that the police had the duty to arrest anyone. The statement that was made by my former hon. Colleague, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs then was that nobody was above the law and that we do not take into account extraneous considerations.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Interjection

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, let us not turn the House into a fighting ring.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I must say that the people of Chienge feel neglected. They feel like they are not Zambians.

 

Mr Kambita: By Patriotic Front (PF)!

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, the land cruiser in question was brought for servicing in the previous Government. I wrote letters and was told that only tyres were remaining to be fitted on the land cruiser. The hon. Minister has just responded that another land cruiser has been allocated. No, that was not the replacement for the blue land cruiser. That is why, in my question, I even indicated the colour of the land cruiser.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out on behalf of the people of Chienge, which is situated on a very porous border where fishermen are arrested even by the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) Government, when the hon. Minister is going to redirect that land cruiser back to Chienge because we do not have transport in Chienge and the police are totally handicapped. If the Government cannot take care of them, it will be accountable. Chienge is located on the border, just for the information of the hon. Minister.

 

Madam Speaker, when is he going to give instructions, now that he knows that the land cruiser is supposed to be for Chienge? I am pretty sure that Chienge was treated like that because the area Member of Parliament was not in the Ruling Party. Can the hon. Minister make a difference because we need that land cruiser back?

 

Madam Speaker, if I am allowed to ask a second question –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

No, one question at a time.

 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I reluctantly rise on a very serious point of order. As a proud former hon. Minister of Home Affairs, I have been sitting here very proudly having served a record time which my brother is yet to match up to. 

 

Madam Speaker, I have been patiently and quietly listening to the proceedings. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security in order to avoid responding to the questions being raised by the hon. Member for Chienge, whose land cruiser we worked on very well? The hon. Minister has drawn me into his debate in a manner that is unlike him.

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling and protection from this hon. Minister.

 

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister actually referred to the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu as “my former friend.” I wonder if you are not friends anymore.  

 

Laughter

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as we debate, let us not debate each other. Let us concentrate on the issues that are on the Floor of the House. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security will answer the question that has been put by the hon. Member for Chienge.   

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank you. I also take counsel from you and apologise to my friend, Hon. Kampyongo.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I sympathise with the people of Chienge. This is why, in the last elections on 12th August, 2021, the people of Chienge decided and resolved to punish the Patriotic Front (PF) for failing to provide for them. I can assure the hon. Member that the good and caring Government of President Hakainde Hichilema will provide for the people of Chienge and will look forward to providing the requisite transport in Chienge so that the people of Chienge can be protected from criminal activities in Chienge.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for those responses although he went a bit political as they were jabbing each other with his predecessor.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, in four years, the vehicle has been taken for repairs and reassigned. Was there any immediate –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I think the House is being turned into a circus where people are just commenting anyhow. I need your protection because it is unparliamentary.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, let us allow the hon. Member for Chama South to ask his question so that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security can also listen to it and answer it appropriately.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, yes, the Patriotic Front (PF) was in the Government, but the Government remains the Government. For now, it is the United Party for National Development (UPND) in charge, but the republic is the same. Were there any remedial measures which the Government then put in place to ensure that our men and women in uniform in Chienge were able to protect both public and private property, including lives? Was there anything that it did? If not, what is it that the New Dawn Government will immediately do to ensure that the men and women in uniform in the police service in Chienge continue protecting our lives and our property?

 

Madam Speaker: From what I heard from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security say, he made assurances to the people of Chienge that the appropriate motor vehicle will be provided. So, that question, hon. Member for Chama South, has already been addressed.

 

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, my question has already been responded to.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kang’ombe (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, the question has been overtaken by events.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, I see the hon. Minister already smiling before I ask my question.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has answered the question very well that he will provide transport. I know that in this House, we have a Committee on Government Assurances. We would like to know, including the people of Chienge, the time frame in which the Government shall provide this transport, having in mind that Chienge is quite a sensitive area. It is a border area and transport for the police is of paramount importance to the people of Chienge. May we know the time frame in which this action shall be taken?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, as I indicated, another land cruiser has been allocated to Chienge, which is being used by our police in the area. We have also indicated that we are going to have an additional motor vehicle when resources are made available. The hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo knows that we are currently debating the Budget. So, it is up to him and the colleagues in this House to make a variation in the Budget to provide for a vehicle to ensure that we comply with question (d) of the hon. Member for Chienge.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: No debating whilst seated.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I really appreciate the efforts the hon. Minister is making to make the people of Chienge feel loved. However, I want to bring it to his attention that there was no land cruiser which was taken to Chienge as a replacement. That land cruiser he referred to came when we had the same land cruiser I am talking about. I would also like to inform him that for the land cruiser we have currently, we use our personal resources to service and buy spare parts. His predecessor sometimes would use his own resources to do that. So, in other words, we are grounded because we do not have transport.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has already preached his love for the people of Chienge. Can the hon. Minister assure us without referring us to the Budget that either our land cruiser will be redirected to Chienge or he will give us a new one immediately since we already have our land cruiser? Can he assure the people of Chienge that the same land cruiser, since it is in Luapula Province, will be redirected back to the rightful owners?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I would like to assure my good colleague that we shall do everything possible to ensure that a motor vehicle replacement is made for the good people of Chienge, in due course. I will follow up the matter.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Twasa (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, we have heard how the vehicle which came to Lusaka from Chienge was reassigned to another station. Should we be worried that each time we bring our vehicles from our various constituencies for servicing, they might be reassigned to other stations? May the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and Internal Security assure this House that such a thing will never happen and that we should never camp in Lusaka to monitor our vehicles to make sure that they are not reassigned to other stations?

 

Hon. UPND Member: It was PF!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, it was not my intention to be speculative and make assumptions as to what will happen in future, but I can assure the House that we shall not behave the way the PF used to behave…

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwiimbu: …. where there was no prudence in the management of national affairs. We shall ensure, Madam Speaker, that if a vehicle is for Kasenengwa, it is for Kasenengwa and it will be returned to Kasenengwa.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

KANCHIBIYA ROADS REHABILITATION

 

69. Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development when the rehabilitation of the following roads in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency will commence:

 

  1. Luchembe/Kopa;
  2. Mbati/Chinkobo; and
  3. Zampalm/Nchubula.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Luchembe/Kopa Road in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency will commerce once funds for the project are secured.

 

Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Mbati/Chinkobo Road in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency is currently on-going under the force account.

 

Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Zampalm/Nchubula Road in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency will commerce once funds for the project are secured.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, the Luchembe/Kopa Road that we made reference to leads to the Zampalm plantation. This particular plantation is under the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) and is worth UD$25 million of investment. This road is also a gateway to the Bangweulu wetlands. This particular road is in a deplorable state and leaves much to be desired. Over the years, the people of Kanchibiya have been treated to the same sort of response that this road will be attended to once funds are available. However, we do see other roads being attended to. If one looks at the economic value of this particular road–we are saying the people under Chief Luchembe and Chief Kopa deserve to be attended to as well. What sort of assurance can we get from the Government and when do we expect the money to be available for this particular road?

 

Madam Speaker, the Zampalm/Nchubula Road leads to an area that is potentially a commercial rice and fish production area. Yet, the same response has been given over and over again which is, when resources are available. So, when are the people of Kanchibiya going to be given a fair deal? What assurance can we get from the Government that this time around, as I asked in my previous question to my good hon. Minister, that he will make a difference to the people of Kanchibiya, Luchembe and the people under Chief Kopa?

 

Eng Milupi: Madam Speaker, I truly sympathise with the hon. Member for Kanchibiya. Kanchibiya is a vast rural constituency and very underdeveloped, that I know. It requires a number of roads to interconnect communities in the manner that he has described.

 

Madam Speaker, the Luchembe/Kopa Road is part of the Mpika/Luchembe/Kopa RD51, which is 60 km. This is a road which is earmarked to undergo periodic maintenance. Unfortunately, for the hon. Member, we have the same challenge, once funds are available.  That is because of the situation that the country finds itself in.

 

Madam Speaker, we are debating the Budget, but before I come to that point, the procurement of the contractor for this particular road to undertake the works has been concluded. Even though that has been concluded, the signing of the contracts awaits the availability of funds.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Kanchibiya asked when these funds would be available. The answer is that let him and his colleagues on your left help us when it comes to debating this Budget and approve it as quickly as possible so that we can allocate these resources.

 

Madam Speaker, he has also made reference in his follow up question to the Zampalm/Nchubula Road, which is a continuation of the RD51 from Kopa to Mwinikashi, covering a distance of 55 km. The works on this road were planned for execution under emergency works during this year. However, the procurement of a contractor could not commerce due to financial constraints. That is why we keep emphasising from the Government’s point of view that there is a lot that we require to do, first of all, to lower down the cost of constructing and maintaining these roads so that we can have more resources available for important projects such as this, which is opening up a remote constituency like Kanchibiya.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, the roads that have been mentioned are very important and, indeed, the hon. Minister has acknowledged that.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has just told the House that the procurement process has already been undertaken for one of the roads and what remains is the allocation of resources. Could the hon. Minister kindly confirm if this road has been incorporated in the Yellow Book so that the hon. Member of Parliament behind me (referring to Mr Chanda who sat behind him) and myself could be motivated to pass the Budget as he rightly put it.

 

Eng Milupi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chitambo. He is very active in this House, and that is good to see people representing constituencies taking interest in matters.

 

Madam Speaker, regarding the question as to whether this particular road is incorporated in the Yellow Book, my knowledge of this Parliament is that there are various Yellow Books. Every year, there is a Yellow Book. So, I do not know which year he is referring to, whether he is referring to the 2021 Yellow Book or the Yellow Book that we will be discussing just now.

 

Madam Speaker, we have already said that the contractor has been secured, but because we exhausted funds for this particular year, we are waiting for new funds to be made available. The only reason a contractor would be secured is the project is provided for in the current Yellow Book. That is how the Government works.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, I was paying attention to the responses being provided by the senior Engineer and hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development on the three roads that have been requested for by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya. The hon. Minister is on record as having announced that funds have been secured from the World Bank for feeder roads and rural roads. Can I, therefore, assume and I hope that the hon. Minister responds, that the roads that have been referred to will also be included in the World Bank funded project since the funds are already secured from the Word Bank?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the World Bank funds under the Improved Rural Connectivity Project (IRCP) are not a limitless supply of funds. It is US$200 million and so far, to undertake 4300 km of roads. These particular roads per the provinces are have already been allocated funding. If these roads were part of the IRCP, I would not have said until funds are available because those World Bank funds are available. The funds, in terms of Muchinga Parliamentary Constituency have already been allocated to specific roads, which are not part of this.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, the road from Chambeshi/Mbati/Chinkobo Roads is about 76 km and the works currently on-going on that particular road will only cater for 30 km and the Road Development Agency (RDA) is only coming in with selected gravelling. This means that 46 km of this road will still remain unattended to.

 

Madam Speaker, could the people of Kanchibiya get a commitment from the hon. Minister that resources will be found for the remaining 46 km of this particular road.

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, in fact, the Mbati/Chinkobo Road, which is part of the Chambeshi/Mbati/Chinkobo; (D428) is not 76 km, it is 77 km. This is undergoing emergency repairs under the Force Account. The works commenced on 21st October, this year. I am sure the hon. Member needs contact with his constituency. I have spoken to the Road Development Agency (RDA) regional manage in Muchinga, and so far, 15 km has been graded in spite of just having started. I am sure you can check with your constituency to confirm that.

 

Madam Speaker the RDA Muchinga regional office was funded K1 million to cover the Kaonda sections of the Kopa/Zampalm in the Chambeshi/Mbati/Chinkobo Road. Further, bush clearing on a section of this road has been carried out and the grading of the worst sections of the road is currently on-going. Periodic maintenance will be carried out by the RDA on the entire stretch of the road once funds are found.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, since Parliament opened, a number of hon. Members of Parliament have come on the Floor of this House to question the hon. Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development over the rehabilitation of the roads.

 

Madam Speaker, the question that has come today is just one of the questions that have been asked by other hon. Members. I, too, was thinking of putting up a similar question in the next few days about the Ndola/Mufulira Road, which is a very important road in Chifubu Parliamentary Constituency up to Mufulira Town.

 

Madam Speaker, my concern has been that the answers we have received are that: when the money is available. We know now, that the Budget has come out and we have the confidence that it will be approved because it is the best Budget ever presented on the Floor of this House. I am confident it will be approved. Now, as the money will be available in your ministry, all of us; the 156 Members of Parliament will be knocking on your door to find out which roads will be worked on in our constituencies.

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister coming up with a schedule to allocate the number of kilometres of roads to be worked on in various constituencies so that we know that when money is available, such and such roads in each constituency will be worked on?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chifubu is absolutely right. The pressure and demand is on in terms of infrastructure development, especially roads. The pressure is on from virtually all hon. Members of Parliament in this House. We, as the Government understand the need for these roads, including the ones that he has referred to even if it is not part of the question, which is the Ndola/Mufulira Road.

 

Madam Speaker, the ministry is aware of everywhere where there are issues of the need to repair the roads. The situation is that a number of these roads were contracted out and the Government has not been able to fund the contractors given these roads, the engineers and the consultants. A number of them have stopped work quite clearly on account of the fact that they have not been paid.

 

Madam Speaker, what we are doing is that when we have limited amounts of money available, is to look at those that have carried out work and they have certified certificates on the work that has been carried out. Then, we sit down with them and see what proportion of that can be paid in order for them to continue the rehabilitation of the remaining sections of the roads.

 

Madam Speaker, because of the magnitude of the problem it is, indeed a very heavy responsibility, but I can assure this House that we are doing everything in our power. I assure the hon. Members from both sides of the House, who have been very willing to engage with us and discuss specific problems from all over the country. A number of them clearly understand the magnitude of the problem that we have, but we are doing everything.

 

Madam Speaker, this New Dawn Administration is a Government for the whole country. Wherever there are issues of roads, it shall take interest and when funds are available, we shall use those funds efficiently and effectively. One of the ways of doing that is ensuring that the certified works are paid so that the contractors can get back on site to continue the good work that they are doing.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Rev. Katuta: Madam Speaker, I have heard the New Dawn Government talk about the Public-Private Partnership (PPP). So, I think even if there were contracts signed and that Government does not have money, maybe, the New Dawn Government can go the PPP way to have these roads worked on. If we will be talking about waiting for the money to come, I do not know when we are ever going to have money in this country. So, why can the Government not take the PPP route?

 

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, I am getting more and more impressed by the hon. Member for Chienge by the day. I think she is very incisive in the way that she asks her questions. The Private-Public Partnership (PPP) route is indeed government policy right now and the New Dawn Government is absolutely serious on embarking on the PPP route. You heard the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in his Budget Speech identify this as a route to undertake some of the road rehabilitation works. It is not just roads, but also other forms of infrastructure because of the shortage of funds. Even going forward, we will continue to have a shortage of funds to carry out infrastructure development in-house.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Chienge might want to know that even this morning, I chaired a meeting at our ministry, which included the PPP unit and the director of the PPP unit under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, for us to strategise and finalise what requires to be done to embark on PPPs.

 

Madam Speaker, however, let me caution the House. The PPP route will be applied on roads that have commercial value so that the investors, contractors and funders that are involved after careful negotiations and contracts and so on and so forth, over a specified time, referred to as the concession period, can recoup their investments.

 

Madam Speaker, even as we identify those projects, again I am thankful because hon. Members from both sides of the House have come to the ministry to identify certain sections that we think can go via the PPP route. An example is the road from Chingola to Chililabombwe to Kasumbalesa Border. Another example is in the Northern Province, which is the Kasomeno/Mwenda Road, with the bridge on the Luapula River. We know that once that route is opened, there will be the flow of traffic in that direction. An example is the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway, which we know that if it was done that way, traffic flow will be such that it can fund itself.

 

Madam Speaker, as we go through this process, we are serious with this programme. His Excellency the President is absolutely serious on the PPP route. What this will do is to take pressure away from the major roads, the so-called ‘commercially attractive roads’, so that the Government will not have to use its own resources. What is, therefore, spared after that exercise being done, we will then be utilised on what I can refer to as ‘non-attractive roads’, such as the ones that we are talking about, so that the Government can then use or direct those resources to those routes. This PPP route will also be applied to other infrastructure such as the railway lines. I think we are beginning to talk about that and so on and so forth. So, she is right. It is an attractive route and we are seriously considering it.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

KABWE MODERN MARKET STRUCTURES

 

70. Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Local Government and Rural Development:

 

  1. whether the Government has any plans to build modern structures at the following markets in Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency:

 

  1. Green Market; and
  2. Mine Market; and

 

b. if so, when the plans will be implemented.

 

The Minister of Local Government and Rural Development (Mr Nkombo): Madam Speaker, I inform this august House that the Government has plans to build modern structures at Green Market and at Mine Market in Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency under the 2023/2024 Budget. The plans will be implemented under the 2023/2024 annual work plan, subject to the availability of funds.

 

Madam Speaker, there is an alternative window to achieving the same goal of building these structures and if the hon. Member so wishes, she could engage her constituency to utilise the increased Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to undertake developments at these two markets.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, any follow up question?

 

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister. I think the people of Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency are satisfied.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development has just mentioned the alternative to the problem in Kabwe Central of building the structures in question by saying the people of Kabwe should take advantage of the increased Constituency Development Fund (CDF) if they cannot wait up to that time when the funds will be available. As the people of Kabwe take up the advantage to build this from the increased CDF, how fast is his ministry going to be in approving some of these CDF proposals, considering that his ministry has to handle 156 constituencies coming up with projects?

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I inform the hon. Member of Parliament for Chifubu that the New Dawn Government under the leadership of President Hakainde Hichilema made a conscious decision to increase the CDF with eyes wide open that we are going to be extremely expedient in making sure that all the approvals that meet the required standards are done timely.

 

Madam Speaker, as an example, this whole week, for all those hon. Members who have submitted the names of the proposed individuals to sit on the committee have been approved by my office expressly.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: In the same vein, when the projects are identified and we are satisfied that the identification of these projects come alongside what we are now calling the HH Triangle, which is that these projects are going to have the correct price, deliver a quality product and done timely, we will expressly approve all the projects.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kang’ombe: Madam Speaker, the response by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development is that provision has been made in the 2023/2024 annual work plan to undertake these works that have been requested.

 

Madam Speaker, does the ministry intend to construct more markets in Zambia apart from Kabwe so that even the people of Luwingu and Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency can know if modern markets will be constructed in Luwingu, taking into account that Ward Development Committees (WDCs) are currently collecting proposals to be forwarded to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Committees for further administration. At the end of the day, the people of Luwingu want know whether the issue of the market in Luwingu will be taken care of by the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development.

 

 Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. Colleague from Luwingu and in particular Lubansenshi for that intervention.

 

Madam Speaker, we are in the Government and firmly so. Luwingu is so wealthy in terms of natural endowments and there is a lot of grass for rearing cattle. I was there at one time and I love that place. It is our wish that every district and constituency, and where possible, every ward has a decent trading place. The will has been demonstrated so clearly by President Hakainde Hichilema’s pronouncements when he banned cadres from operating in markets. We are faced with a terrible phenomenon like it has been in the Republic of Haiti, where people left markets to go and trade in undesignated trading places.

 

Madam Speaker, starting from the capital city, Lusaka, we intend to re-advertise all abandoned market stalls as a way to bring back normalcy. We will advertise all abandoned market stalls in Lusaka, in the capital city, as a way to encourage our people to go back to the designated trading places. As we do so, I want the hon. Member to understand that we have co-operating partners such as the Germans and the United States of America (USA), who are solidly behind us and they have been solidly behind with not only this Administration, but even the past one to achieve decentralisation and make sure that support is given in districts for some institutions like markets and bus stations to operate and to bring back normalcy. We are determined to do exactly that.

 

 Madam Speaker, every end of the race is the beginning of another one. The hon. Member from Luwingu should make his intentions known by either coming through my ministry with a clear intention that he wishes to have a modern market in Luwingu or the alternative. If the hon. Member is in such a hurry, there is a whooping K25.7 million for him to show his seriousness. Let this debate about whether it is a good intention to have K25.7 in the districts end for it only makes sense that from now going forward for the citizens to participate in making decisions and charting their destinies. As my President has said, he has taken away money from umm umm umm in Lusaka to the districts.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

BUDGET 2022

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Dr Chilufya (Mansa Central): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion of Supply as presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane.

 

Madam Speaker, let me begin by saluting the hon. Minister for his eloquent presentation of the Budget. He lived up to his international reputation as an economist of international acclaim.

 

 Madam Speaker, for inadequacy of time, I will focus my debate on the health sector, but I will also delve into a few general matters. The Budget was both ambitious and difficult. I do not blame the hon. Minister and as a politician, I know that at a point, he needed to navigate the difficult confluence between campaign rhetoric and promises, and the reality of governance …

 

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

 Dr Chilufya: … and I believe that he was being magnanimous in what he was doing.

 

 Madam Speaker, I will focus on a few points on the health sector and the interface between the economic reconstruction programme and health. I want to state from inception that the economic reconstruction programme will amount to not if the Government does not invest adequately in health. The increase in the budgetary allocation to the health sector in absolute numbers is commendable. However, in terms of percentage, it is the lowest in the last five years.

 

 Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has only allocated 8 per cent of the Budget to the health sector. In the last five years, the lowest has been 8.1 per cent and the highest has been 9.5 per cent. The Abuja Declaration suggests that we allocate 15 per cent of the budgetary allocation or at least 5 per cent of our Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to the health sector. I urge the hon. Minister to reconsider that figure and I will justify that. 

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has reduced the percentage sum allocation to the health sector in the face of the ferocious pandemic in the name of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19). I want to tell you through a technical lens that we are on the verge of the fourth wave of the COVID-19. The 100 per cent increase in the cases that are admitted to our various facilities due to COVID-19 is a subtle indicator that we are on the verge of the fourth wave. Decreasing investment in health security cannot be congruent with the hon. Minister’s statement that he will improve investment in health as he reconstructs the economy.

 

 Madam Speaker, I want to move quickly to what I expect as we talk about the fourth wave. There are many economic activities that the hon. Minister has stated that may not happen when we shut down because of COVID-19. The Government has an opportunity to invest in community interventions that will raise surveillance levels for us to detect cases early, prevent or cut transmission and that opportunity lies in investing in the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI). Today, we are able to tell from the information that the Ministry of Health publishes every day that the 5,000 tests of COVID-19 taken are little. At this stage, we are supposed to reach 20,000 tests per day, but we are only conducting 5,000. Let me be consoled –

 

 Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.                            

           

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was lamenting the reduction in the allocation to the health sector in the face of COVID-19. I praise the Government for focusing on vaccination. However, at 6 per cent on both doses and 10 per cent on one dose, we are far from reaching the target. It is important that we stop doing just static site vaccinations. We need to go into outreaches. The Government should fund the Zambia National Public Health Institute (ZNPHI) adequately to achieve all the eight pillars of the response for it to fight COVID-19 because that is the biggest threat to the economic reconstruction programme.

 

Madam Speaker, 11,200 health workers to be recruited in 2022 is commendable and a quantum leap towards universal health coverage. We recruited 25,000 health workers in five years. It is my sincere hope that it will be sustainable bearing in mind that the Government will use a gift from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to recruit the first 11,000 health workers. We hope that in the following year, it will move resources to ensure that it recruits more workers so that it can go beyond 25,000 in five years.

 

Madam Speaker, the supply chain is another fundamental component of the health systems. We came up with the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency Act. Moving the supply chain or procurement to the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Agency (ZAMSA) is one thing, but creating a drug fund at the ZAMSA was another fundamental decision. It is important to front load the ZAMSA so that it can procure drugs in advance and ensure that there are no stock outs.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister also spoke about health care financing and he said he will restructure the National Health Insurance Management Authority (NHIMA) to ensure that everyone else is included. The hon. Minister should pause. The NHIMA is structured in such a way that it includes everyone everywhere, but there is a suggestion to move it to the Ministry of Labour and Social Security focusing on workers. That is a shift. So, there is some incongruence there. The Government should think again. It should let the NHIMA be at the Ministry of Health.

 

Madam Speaker, any health system scholar will tell you that universal health coverage anchors on health care financing and that is why we structured the NHIMA from the Ministry of Health. That way, you reduce the gap between what you are able to provide as the Treasury and what the health sector needs. As we talk about universal health coverage, which is the Government’s main aspiration, it is important that health systems’ strengthening continues to be the focus. Therefore, I urge the Government to continue investing in health systems in order to ensure that it leaves no one behind.

 

Madam Speaker, let me also talk about decentralisation. I have seen that health services at the district level have been moved to local Government. It is a commendable move to decentralise and to increase the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Let it just be done with matching resources. The shift of some central functions to the local Government should also attract more funding. So, K25 million is progressive. It is a good step, but the increase should match the shift of responsibilities that are there.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the Budget Speech. I urge him to ensure that the interface between health and economics is managed properly. With a morbid population, we will not have a healthy, productive workforce and we will subtract from his intentions to reconstruct the economy.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, thank you most sincerely for giving the people of Kantanshi an opportunity to add their voice to this Budget. I will focus on a number of announcements that have been made, but I think I will require some back up.

 

Madam Speaker, we commend the Government for the initiative of wanting to employ 30,000 teachers as well as 10,000 nurses, but we also realise that there will be so much pressure on the Treasury considering that we are in a recession. Therefore, we propose that the Government should first consider those who are already working as volunteers and then probably turn around other numbers into apprenticeships so that those particular professionals can start working. It will be cheaper for the Government, but at the same time, it will respond to the aspirations of the people in trying to carry out work. In the same vein, we realise that the Government has been silent on the Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) for all those who earn K6,900 and above. I think those have also been chocked because of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and they are the ones who are actually spending more money in the economy. So, the Government needed to reduce the 37.5 per cent PAYE contribution.

 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about fuel and the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), which were mentioned by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. Fuel, indeed, consumes quite a good amount of money from the Treasury. In fact, the Government has been making huge losses on the exchange market. The Government moves Kwacha to buy United States (US) Dollars to buy the fuel. However, in the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister was not clear whether we are going to use the private sector or through Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) or government to government. So, the hon. Minister needs to come out very clearly in terms of his plan, especially that he intends to remove subsidies from this sub-sector.

 

Madam Speaker, it is the same thing under the FISP. On one hand, the Government said that it will carry out a comprehensive review, and on the other hand, it increased                                                                                                                             its contribution from K1,700 to K3,300. We all know the FISP has not worked accordingly. Look at the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and the amount of money that taxpayers spend. Colossal sums of money are spent only to buy a bag of mealie meal at the end of the day, above even the highest denomination of our country. You buy mealie meal for over K100. However, millions of taxpayers’ money are invested in the FISP, but the FRA has just been left hanging when it could be involved in exporting and milling our mealie meal through various Government companies that have been bought. There is Superior Milling Company and Mushe Milling Company, which can produce mealie meal for export and support the revenue base of our country.

 

Madam Speaker, let me move to the mining sector. I come from a constituency where we depend on the mine. We live the mine and our life is the mine. We have seen that the speech is not consistent with the tax revenues that we are expecting. On one hand, the tax revenue base has been reduced, and on the other hand, we are going to borrow US$4.6 billion to survive, but copper prices have reached their highest. We urge the hon. Minister to relook at the Mineral Royalty Tax and the Income Tax versus these two. We know that there is one big mining company that has been very compliant. We know that it has also offered to invest over US$2 billion, but this is a sector where mining companies have continued to post losses. They do not pay any dividends to the people of Zambia, through the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development or, indeed, the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH). So, this is one area the hon. Minister needs to relook at. It is one thing for investors to propose to invest money and we have seen in the past where they have proposed that they are going to invest money. So, in this case, this US$2 billion is not new.

 

Madam Speaker, when there was a mining indaba, mining companies said we needed to remove double taxation and so on and so forth. However, in this case, the hon. Minister can maybe look at the Income Tax, which is abused by mining companies by increasing their operational costs so that they post losses, but at the same time they can come back and demand their Value Added Tax (VAT) refunds which we owe them in millions of dollars. So, the hon. Minister will do well to look at this one area so that we do not lose out of the high copper prices.

 

Madam Speaker, I will end on the issue of parastatal companies. Most parastatal companies under the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) are loss making. They owe various statutory contributions, are not creating any jobs and are not responsive to growing this economy. The hon. Minister has not been very clear on this. Yes, US$1.5 billion was borrowed on behalf of parastatal companies and ZESCO Limited consumed most of it. However, we have seen how ZESCO Limited has performed. We have seen the levels of load shedding drop and that will support some of the growth pillars that the hon. Minister talked about. The hon. Minister talked about manufacturing, agriculture and so on and so forth. So, we need the hon. Minister to come out clearly on whether we are going to privatise these companies or we will borrow money for them through the financial markets, which are also not doing so well in Zambia because of our high dependency on commercial banks. So, it will be very important that the hon. Minister pays attention to some of these few things that can add value to his Budget.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Halwiindi (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for according the people of Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency an opportunity to add a voice to highly support the Budget proposal which was presented for the year 2022 under the theme: “Growth, Jobs and Taking Development Closer to the People.”

 

Madam Speaker, may I first congratulate His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, working together with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, for a Budget proposal which has given hope to our Zambian people, especially the people of Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Halwiindi: It has been a long time since people heard a Budget proposal that really gave them hope. I know it was not easy to inherit an economy which had really tumbled during the previous regime. The hon. Minister had to make sure that he overcame the dwindling of the economy. It was not an easy job. However, because he is a very capable, seasoned and learned hon. Minister, he made sure that he overcame the high indebtedness of Zambia. He has provided solutions.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Halwiindi: It is a well-known fact and an undisputed one that the previous regime highly borrowed. It did not only borrow highly, but also poorly negotiated loans with high interest rates and short repayment terms.  So, coming from this, allow me to give an illustration. When I was sworn- in, I held the Bible in my hand. In that bible, there is a story of a woman who had a son. Her husband died and left huge debts for the family. They failed to pay. That woman was supposed to sell the son to pay the debts. This is what happened in the previous regime. It left Zambia highly indebted and the economy at the verge of collapsing. People were sleeping hungry. It is thanks to the hon. Minister and the President for giving us hope. We want to rebuild this economy.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Halwiindi: Now, I know the hon. Minister of Health will testify that there are certain diseases that are treated by introducing the same germ or virus. What do I mean? I heard our hon. Member saying that United Party for National Development (UPND) has a high appetite for borrowing. I dispute that very much. It is not correct. Why do I say this? I already said that certain diseases are treated by injecting the same virus of the disease. Our hon. Ministers have said –

 

Dr Chilufya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, I reluctantly rise on this point of order just for fear that the people of this country may be misled that we treat diseases by injecting viruses that cause those diseases. In contrast to what is provided for in Standing Order No. 65 that we ought to be factual. That statement is so wrong and should not be allowed on the Floor of this House.

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament in order to mislead the public and suggest that quacks must now start involving themselves in the treatment of diseases by injecting germs and viruses?

 

 Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

 

Madam Speaker: Thank you very much hon. Member for Mansa Central. Unfortunately, the hon. Member who is rising on the point of order has not cited any Standing Order.

 

Interjections

 

Mr Kampyongo: Standing Order No. 65!

 

Madam Speaker: Oh, it is Standing Order No. 65. I am sorry.

 

Hon. Members, as we debate, the rules are very clear in the Standing Orders that we should remain factual and not alarm the people of Zambia out there. So, hon. Member for Kabwe Central, please try to be factual as you debate.

 

Mr Mubika: Hammer!

 

Mr Kangombe: You can actually say it.

 

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, may I simply say that it was an example, and it is fact. When you prepare a vaccine for a certain virus, you introduce it into the body so that it can produce antibodies. May I now give an example on why I was saying that.

 

Mr Mubika: Quality!

 

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that, yes, we will borrow. However, we will borrow concessional loans which have low interest rates and are repaid in a long period. During that long period of repayment, we are able to invest into high productivity; producing more copper and improving agriculture, tourism and manufacturing. That is rebuilding the economy. When we are rebuilding the economy, it means that we are going to employ more people. That is creating jobs.

 

Yes, when we create more jobs, it means that we will be able to pay off the loans that PF contracted. This is what the New Dawn Government is going to do. It has no appetite to borrow, but that is what we are going to do. In addition to creating jobs, we have said that we are going to employ 30,000 –

 

Hon. Member: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Interjections

 

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member for Kabwe Central proceed.

 

Ms Halwiindi: Madam Speaker, we said that we are going to employ more teachers and most of them are our youth. So, to say that our youth are disappointed is not correct. They are not. They are very happy with this action. The people of Kabwe Central are very happy about the intention to employ 11,000 health workers.

 

Not only that, but that even more money has been injected into the education sector. The highest funded will be the education sector because education is an equalizer. That is why it is important that we support it. With education, I am sure that even our hon. Colleagues would be able to understand the Budget. They would be well informed of what is in it. That is why we want to educate our people.

 

On our side, we do not even want to mislead our people back in the constituency that this Budget is not ok. It is the best that we have ever had.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Halwiindi: So, even in the health sector, we have said that we are going to employ 11,000 health workers. We will also make sure that we provide the medicines that we do not have in our hospitals.

 

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Halwiindi: That is what the New Dawn Government is going to do. I am very happy to say that the Budget the hon. Minister has proposed is the best.

 

Madam Speaker, on decentralisation, I would like to thank the hon. Minister once more for the raised figure of K25.7 million. People in our constituencies are very happy. As opposed to what it was before, where there was a gap between the rich and the poor people, now people will make their own decisions on what they want to do with the money, of course, with the guidance of technocrats.

 

The capacity is there. I can give you an example right now. We used to contract huge sums of money on projects to the constituency, and we never used to send technocrats to supervise those contracts. It was the same people from councils, building departments and the Road Development Agency (RDA) who used to supervise the projects. So, there is no saying that there is no capacity because it is there. If anything, as the New Dawn Government, we are going to advise them that let other engineers who sit at the RDA and the Ministry of Local Government and Rural Development go in the field to supervise works. There is capacity. 

 

Madam Speaker, thank you so much once more. The people of Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency are very happy and excited. They are waiting to make sure that they make their own decisions and build timely and cost effectively to make sure that they are happy.

 

 Finally, I say that it is very good to decentralise and take money to the people. Yesterday, the people of Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency had a disaster where 236 houses were blown off. Now, when we have money there and the people can make decisions, there will be quick responses, unlike when money sits at the Central Government and we have to get it from the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) Headquarters. We will be able to attend to our own emergencies right there in the constituencies with the money that is allocated us.

 

Madam Speaker, with these few points, I thank you so much and I rest my case.

 

Mr Nyambose (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute and speak on behalf of the people of Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency whom I am representing over this 2022 proposed Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, my focus will be so much around local government and decentralisation. Having been brought up in the local government system, it is my firm belief that a Government will never be effective if it has a weak local government system.

 

Hon. Government Members: Tell them!

 

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, the local government system deals with people at the periphery in communities. On this point, I want to put it on paper today that the proposed 2022 Budget on decentralisation, particularly on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), is unprecedented. This is the first Government to undertake to propose fiscal decentralisation.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, yesterday, I listened to hon. Members contribute that this Government is undertaking piecemeal decentralisation. I was moved. What has happened to this country with this proposal? Many people will agree with me that it has happened for the first time.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, an attempt to take money to communities for them to make decisions on what type of development they want has happened for the first time. Previously, we had structural decentralisation. Structures were devolved to local authorities. Structures were created, but there was reluctance to allow money from the Central Government to go to the local government system.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, this has happened for the first time in this country and it deserves support. It deserves to be recorded that this is the Government that has done it for the first time.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Chasefu are excited. They want to see this money reach them so that they can make decisions on priority areas. When I hear people say that no, this money is for this and that function, for me, my understanding and background is that each particular community will have its own priorities. If it has to build a court in a particular year, it will build a court. If a court is not its priority, it may build a bridge. So, for me, this money, for the first time, will suffice. However, we need more to be taken to communities.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nyambose: Ndi chikali ayi?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, on the recruitment of teachers, the House or the nation may wish to note that Chasefu has over 500 unemployed trained teachers. When a message comes from the Government to say that it proposes to recruit over 30,000 teachers, it excites everyone and it deserves commendation. For us, when it comes to recruitment, we want the people of Chasefu to decide who should be employed and not people in Lusaka.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nyambose: Madam Speaker, we should decentralise. Each constituency should be given a quota and our people will appreciate this Government. When we do that, those teachers who will be employed will never leave those rural areas because they are used to that environment. So, as I support this proposal on recruitment, I want to urge the Government to consider those issues. The same goes with the Ministry of Health. When it comes to that, it should decentralise.

 

Madam Speaker, I will also speak about competence in local government. With those who question and say that councils have no capacity, I tend to disagree. If there are competent and qualified personnel in this country, they are in local government. When it did the structural decentralisation, the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) recruited qualified personnel from the Copperbelt University (CBU) and whichever university. They are there. The only challenge which is there is that we have not considered their welfare.

 

Madam Speaker, as I speak, I have seen a budgetary allocation of K1.3 billion to the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF). In that LGEF, there is a 20 per cent component for capital expenditure. There is a circular to that effect. It is my appeal that the Government withdraws that one on account that it has increased the CDF so that that money is used by councils to supplement their weak revenue bases and workers can be paid every month. It is not good administration to let workers, especially of the Government, go months without pay.

 

Madam Speaker, the Lusaka City Council (LCC), Mansa District Council and Mbala District Council are all in arrears. They should not have a temptation to start meddling with the CDF. Hence, we should consider their plight. This increment in the LGEF should be left for council workers to benefit so that they are equally treated, through their entitlement, by getting paid every month. They will deliver the service to this country. They have the capacity. This Budget is a good Budget. For the people of Chasefu, we look forward to the K4.9 billion allocated to road infrastructure.

 

Madam Speaker, I urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to consider financing the Chasefu/Chama Road. It may not be commercial, but that is an essential road connecting one province to another. It is a bad gravel road. We beg that the Chama/Lundazi Road be considered and be graded for the people of Chasefu to have access to Nakonde and commercial business. Otherwise, this Budget deserves commendation and support. I support it fully.

 

I beg to move

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: Order! Let us proceed.

 

Mr Nkulukusa (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for 2022, which is the National Budget. Yesterday, when there were some debates in this House, I was almost thinking we were reading two documents that were totally different. The first thing was the issue of debt. The way it was put, everybody spoke about what debt the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was contracting, but no one spoke about how much he will be paying.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is contracting a debt of about US$4.3 billion and yet, in the same Budget, he is paying US$4.6 billion. If that continues for five years, what is the net effect? The net effect is that he is actually reducing debt. He is contracting a lesser debt than what he is paying in each year. Simple mathematics means that in five years, the difference between what he is paying and what he is contracting is the amount that you are going to see reduce the debt. That is how you deal with issues of debt management. What is wrong is for you to grow the debt. If you are reducing it, then you are a prudent utiliser of national resources.

 

Madam Speaker, the second thing I want to bring about, which I heard yesterday, is the issue of the Budget being consumptive. I wondered whether the word ‘consumption’ now has a different meaning. If you look at this Budget, you will see that it is proposing to build 120 schools. If that is not investment, then I do not know what investment is. I say so because 120 schools is what you are planting in the education sector to build your human capital and we all know that the factors of production are purely capital, human capital and of course, what we call land. If you do not have trained people and forsake education, then you are forsaking your competitiveness as a country going forward. We saw what the hon. Minister listed in the Budget as some of the things that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is going to work on, things like small bridges, primary care education and primary health care, if that is not investment, then what do you want as investment?

 

Madam Speaker, I see this Budget as one of the most revolutionary Budgets that is going to actually equalise the parameters between the rich and the poor because now, the poor have the capacity to decide what they are going to do for themselves.

 

Madam Speaker, if you are going to invest in infrastructure and the plight of pensioners, for the first time, then you are investing in human capital. You want the pensioners to stop crying for their money. We saw how the pensioners, during the rainy season, were crying for their money and were being soaked. If you are going to relieve those pensioners by giving them their money before they die then you are sowing investment in human capital because those are going to start businesses that are going to create jobs using their own money.

 

Madam Speaker, if you are going to create jobs by supporting the Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) by ensuring that a number of them are empowered, trained and hand walked to ensure that they become the multinationals of tomorrow, then you are investing in human capital. However, if you are not going to put money into that as part of your investment, then you are going to use money elsewhere.

 

Madam Speaker, so, I see this Budget as an investment Budget because it is investing in human capital, infrastructure and all sectors of the economy, including health and education. The only thing that I see is that some people could have been thinking it is not possible. When they see it being possible or see what they thought was an impossibility become possible, it brings some shivers and they start seeing the negative in what is supposed to be positive.

 

Madam Speaker, I visited the constituency and promised the people that I am sure out of the 120 schools mentioned, one of them will be in Katuba. One of my colleagues told me that if anybody does not support the Budget, then they neither feel for the people nor do they have the interest of the welfare of the poor and that because they thought it was not possible, but when somebody brings it, they turn it down because their dignity is diminishing.

 

Madam Speaker, the second point is that only when you thrive in scarcity is when you believe that you can thrive even where there are few resources. This is because scarcity usually produces corruption and you want to thrive in an environment that is corrupt and centralised so that you can benefit. If you are not like that, then this is the Budget you are going to look for. It is forthright and it is talking and pointing to good development. Imagine a repeat of such a Budget for five years. Zambia will not be the same again.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Kampampi (Mwansabombwe): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to add the voice of the people of Mwansabombwe to this debate. First and foremost, let me say well done to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

 

Madam Speaker, the Budget pronouncements were so bold, ambitious and raised a lot of serious concerns in terms of attainability. From what I have learnt, the true reflection of a Budget lies, a lot, on the objectives of execution and finding initiatives on how to achieve it.

 

Madam Speaker, that said, allow me to pinpoint some of the shortcomings, which I picked from the Budget presentation. On the revenue part, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning proposed to raise funds locally and internationally. This is where I had a challenge because he proposed to raise the K172.8 billion through internal and external borrowing whilst negotiating with international creditors on how to sustain the debt. I wonder how we can do that because whilst we are still trying to negotiate how the payment will be restructured, we are still trying to borrow.

 

Madam Speaker, I also did not exactly get the point on mining, whereby the hon. Minister declared to remove mineral royalties. If you look at the trend, in the past twenty-five years in Zambia, we have had eight major corporate organisations, which have been conducting mining operations. From the eight, we have only had two in the twenty-five years, which have been managing to pay taxes.

 

Madam Speaker, this is the period when the mining industry has boomed and if we cannot take advantage and make sure we get something out of it, then how are we going to support our Budget in terms of the much-needed revenue to sustain our operations?

 

Madam Speaker, at this historical period when the price of copper is so high is when the Government has proposed the removal of Mineral Royalty Tax. Believe me, most of the mines will still not be declaring their profit. Hence, this will fall on the Zambians and it will be a loss on our part as Zambians. We will not benefit from the proceeds of the mines. As much as corporate companies have promised that they are coming in to invest a large sum of money, about US$2 billion, how are we going to monitor and ensure that that money is deposited into our country? There is no law in Zambia which holds investors accountable or compels them to provide evidence that this money has been deposited into the country. So, I am urging the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to relook into this issue and make sure he comes up with something which will ensure the Zambian people benefit from the mining activities.

 

Madam Speaker, the other thing is Corporate Tax. Corporate Tax was reduced from 35 per cent to 30 per cent, from which corporate companies have benefited. I am trying to look at an individual Zambian who is still going to be taxed at 37 per cent, which is still on the higher side. If you look at page 44 of the Budget Speech, you will see that our revenues basically show that company tax will only be able to raise about K16 billion while Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) will raise about K17 billion plus, which is a very huge thing on the Zambian people. This is not really trying to help the Zambian people benefit from the Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, I am urging the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to relook into this as well and see if he can give relief to the people of Zambia so that they can also benefit from this Budget. The Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) have been allocated about K350 million, but if you look at that amount of money, you will note that it is not enough to sustain the SMEs throughout the country. In this regard, I am also urging the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to relook into it.

 

Madam Speaker, furthermore, I urge the New Dawn Government to come up with better mechanisms of how it is going to be disbursing this money. As long as it will be using the system that we applied in the Patriotic Front (PF), I believe even this system is not going to work in helping out the SMEs. You know our culture for borrowing is very difficult.

 

Madam Speaker, in this regard, I urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, to come up with a bank for SMEs, which will be in charge of these funds so that people can walk in and out to get these funds to help them run their businesses. Otherwise, if it will just be disbursing the money based on what has been happening previously, then this system is not going to work.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, I thank the beautiful people of Kalomo, hon. Members of Parliament and Zambians at large for giving me an opportunity to air my views on the Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, before I say what I want to, I would like to make a correction of what was said yesterday. The hon. Member of Parliament for Matero said the figures in the Budget do not balance. This is not true, they balance. When you write a speech, you highlight the most important part and leave the other parts as they are. If you want to add and find out whether this Budget balances or not, please add everything. We have the Budget Committee here at Parliament that can help you. So, it was not right to say that the figures in this Budget do not balance. Unless you went to a school where I did not go, the figures do balance.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi said that the Government intends to use money in the reserves, but that is not true. When the Patriotic Front (PF) Government came into power, it had US$3 billion in the reserves. It depleted the money. You do not use money in the reserves. It is like the minimum balance in the bank.

 

Madam Speaker, what the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was saying is that despite the huge debt that the PF left and the debt being unsustainable, the country facing a lot of difficulties, we shall maintain a certain amount, come what may. The hon. Minister never said he was going to use money in the reserve.

 

Madam Speaker, the theme of this Budget is as follows: “Growth, Jobs and Taking Development Closer to the People.” Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, thank you very much. This Budget is good. You did a very good job.

 

Madam Speaker, after reading this Budget, I find myself giving it the following theme: “Giving Something Small and in Return Getting Something Big.” This is what this Budget is all about.

 

Madam Speaker, this Budget is pregnant with jobs, many opportunities, equity, free education, social cash transfers and pensioners all getting the money they are supposed to get. We are feeding the cow to get the best mike. We are not milking the cow until it bleeds. This is how it is supposed to be. These are what we call bally economics. Job well done Mr President and hon. Minister of Finance and National Development. This is an excellent Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, the PF Budget was toxic. It would get everything from the people and in return, give them poverty, hunger, corruption and no jobs. However, this Budget is doing the opposite. Let me give you a good example. All the pensioners in the country will be paid. This is excellent.

 

Madam Speaker, we have had situations where a person who was retired on tribal lines is getting a salary because he/she has not been given his pension and another person is employed. In some cases, one post would be held by three people who are being paid for the same job. The other two are not working. Why? The Government was retiring people when it did not have money to even give them for pension. There is a clause in the Constitution which states that if you retire somebody, the person must continue getting a salary up to the end. As a result, the wage bill is very high. That is why the former Minister of Finance had problems. The wage bill would go sometimes to 50 per cent. Why was that so? It is because the Government was so careless in handling its affairs.

 

Madam Speaker, this Government has said it will pay all the pensioners. This is a huge saving. The University of Zambia (UNZA) has about 160 people who retired fifteen years ago and have not been given their pension. They are being paid every month yet they are not doing any work because the PF was failing to pay them their pension benefits. This Budget has done what Napoleon failed to do. This is a job well done.

 

Madam Speaker, when the PF was campaigning, it said to people Zambia that the Social Cash Transfer Scheme would be removed. It said the Social Cash Transfer Scheme would be removed when it left Government. However, this Government has even added more to it. The people who were getting K150 will now get K200. The people who were getting K300, the most disabled will get K400. It is not only that, the Government is also going to increase the number of beneficiaries. The PF actually embezzled money for the poor and people who could not work. Money was misappropriated and for two and a half years, the Social Cash Transfer Scheme was gone. The PF would only take it where there was a by-election. We do not want politics. Do not play bad politics with the Zambian people. Only a bad Government can do that. However, this Government has sorted this out. It will give the poor a chance to earn a living. What you do when you are in leadership is to turn around the economy of the country for the benefit of the citizens. This is exactly what this Budget is doing.

 

Madam Speaker, on free education, we told you it was a question of semantics or if I am to be a bit straight, English. The President gives a policy direction of how the country should move. The why, how and when comes at this level. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning answered how free education will be achieved. K18 billion is not a joke. To give K 18 billion to education in a country which is heavily indebted is surely something to remember. This was excellent as well.

 

Madam Speaker, through free education, 30,000 teachers will be employed. 11,200 health workers will be employed, which they failed to do. Learn to appreciate what is good. The whole ten years period, the PF refused to bring the Loans and Guarantees Bill so that the loans could pass through Parliament where all of us are accountable. It refused to do that. It was getting back door loans. However, this Government has put is very clear that before the end of this session of Parliament, the Loans and Guarantees Bill will be brought here. This is excellent. You are bringing somebody to check you. We want to be checked because we are Government of transparency and accountable to the Zambian people. We want them to see what we are doing.

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Speaker, I only have just a bit to add. The money we are getting for tourism is too little. I know it is a realistic figure, but we need to do something to get more from the Victoria Falls because other counties are getting more money from it than us.

 

Madam Speaker, when it comes to the money for Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs), I think it is little. The people we will hire to make desks using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) will need to get capital. Capital in Zambia is very expensive because the previous Government over borrowed domestically, making the interest rates very high. So, these people who will help us achieve our goal will need capital. I am requesting the hon. Minister, if it is possible, to add a bit more money for SMEs. This budget has been done very well. You are in indeed a doctor of economics –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam Speaker: If there is any hon. Member who wants to raise a point of order in response to what an hon. Member is debating, just please take down or make a note and you will respond when you debate. Let us not debate through points of order.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me the opportunity to contribute to debate on the Motion on the Floor of the House, the Motion of Supply. From the outset, I want to remind our hon. Colleagues on your left hand side that we are actually debating the Budget Speech here. We have not yet reached at the point where the whole House has resolved into committee to look at details. We will reach that point. When we reach that point, then they will be looking for those figures they are looking for to try and balance this speech.

 

Mr Mubika: Teach them!

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, if we are debating the Motion that is on the Floor of the House, we are debating the speech which was delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. In his speech, there are salient features that make up the National Budget, be it on the expenditure side or the revenue envelope. We are looking at figures on the expenditure part. These are clearly indicated in bold letters.

 

For instance, I will refer you to the table or the budget outline which is on page 40. It clearly shows you the 2022 Budget Allocations by Functions of Government and there are ten functions therein, clearly stated. I can easily name them: General Public Services, Defence, Public Order and Safety, Economic Affairs, Environmental Protection, Housing and Community Amenities, Health, Recreation, Culture and Religion, Education, and Social Protection. These are the ten functions that have been put in the budget and when you add up those figures where the Budget has been broken into those ten, they clearly add up to the amount we are looking for.

 

Madam Speaker, when we go to revenue estimates, they are very clear. What finances what we have planned to spend on? We get the monies through taxing locally here, collected either by taxes or non-tax revenue. If that is not enough, we then borrow domestically through the banks by issuance of treasury bonds and the like. Then if that is still not enough to finance the Budget, we externally borrow in order to match what we want to spend the money on. When you add those lines I have talked about, they also balance.

 

Madam Speaker, so where is this debate which is being brought here by people masquerading to understand economics and making the whole country think like we do not know what we are doing coming from? We know what we are doing. We know we have set out what we want to spend the money on and how we are going to raise it. So these are the estimates. I wanted our hon. Colleagues and the nation to understand that we know what we are doing. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning knows what he did. Therefore, we can stand here with heads high to show that this Budget actually means well.

 

Madam Speaker, going to the details of the Budget, which we will discuss later on, if hon. Members care to debate, they could then bring issues when we start debating the details, which are the budget lines themselves. Talking about external borrowing, it is really just about K51 billion which is supposed to be borrowed externally. When you look closely on that amount, a big portion of it is actually coming from concessional borrowing. We cannot compare this to the reckless borrowing of the Patriotic Front (PF), where they went to get the Eurobond, the bond of which we are suffering its consequences to-date. No wonder we have big sums of money because we are responsible and we are allocating sums of money to liquidate this debt. Are you not able to see this sense in the organised way we are doing things? We are a very organised Government.

 

Hon. UNPD Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, we are not only going to manage to finance what we have planned to do, but we shall liquidate the debt which the PF recklessly borrowed and spent on projects that were marred with a lot of corruption. Now, here we are and because we are very responsible, we have even said we are going to dismantle the arrears. Not only shall we dismantle arrears, but we shall also pay all pensioners in full in this Budget.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kambita: Not only shall we do that, but we are devolving our operations to ensure that the cogwheels of the economy are moving and empowering the most underprivileged people who are in the rural areas, whom I represent. So you see the sense in this Budget. The whole Budget is full of a lot of sense and you could actually clearly see where we are going.

 

Madam Speaker, this is unlike the way our hon. Colleagues planned. They would come up with plans. If you want to know the confusion that existed then, look at the arrears that are existing. They recklessly gave contracts to people. We have so much debt owing suppliers, some of whom just supplied air.

 

Mr Katakwe: Imagine!

 

Mr Kambita: If we had to take a serious audit into this, you will find that people never supplied anything and yet they are owed by this Government. Now, we are compelled to pay all this debt because it sits on our books. Here we are, the responsible Government has now devolved the way of doing things and the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been increased. The CDF having been increased means that there will be more activity closer to the people.

 

However, Madam Speaker, I want to implore the Executive to take much care in the implementation of programmes, especially around the CDF. Hon. Members of Parliament are the main supervisors of these projects. Sometimes it takes a toll on us going to check on these projects and to ensure that everything is done very well. I believe sometimes our capacity is highly constrained. Herein, we should have some financing towards the main supervisors of these projects.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kambita: On the other hand, the councils must be well empowered and highly supervised. The Executive must make sure that the councils are not left the way it was in the PF regime. They must be well supervised.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Well done!

 

Amb. Kalimi (Malole): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Malole this opportunity to contribute to debate on the Motion of Supply.

 

Madam Speaker, I will restrict myself on the education sector knowing that education skills development and technological advancement are cardinal and create a better society.

 

Madam Speaker, before I do that, let me appreciate that infrastructure development in education is cardinal. I want to tell the Minister of Finance, who is a very noble and educated man, that infrastructure development is lacking in education. Yes, I do acknowledge and appreciate that we are going to employ 30,000 teachers, which is a very commendable thing. Being a teacher, I welcome that move. However, where are these teachers going to stay? People are running away from rural areas because they want to stay in town. Without infrastructure, where are the teachers going to stay? We have not provided accommodation for these teachers. How I wish this Budget could be inclusive and provide accommodation infrastructure for these teachers who are going to be employed.

 

Hon. Government Members: From the K25.7 million.

 

Amb. Kalimi: Madam Speaker –

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Amb. Kalimi: Madam Speaker, we are saying that through the Budget, we are going to provide education, which is okay. However, what we are forgetting is that we have not indicated how the universities and colleges are going to benefit from this free education. We have ended at primary to secondary schools, forgetting that the college and university people voted for the New Dawn Government, but we have left them out.

 

Madam Speaker, we are sitting on a time bomb. Mind you, every year we have almost 3500 school leavers who have not gone to college. Where have they been catered for in the Budget? How are they going to go to universities and colleges? These people were voters and we have not taken care of them. They will be roaming in the streets. We also need to take care of the tertiary education. Of course, we do not want to be like the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy Government (MMD) which started building basic schools. Everywhere you go, you would find basic schools.  Where ever you went, you would find basic schools such as, Arthur Wina Basic School, Nakatindi Basic School and Vera Chiluba Basic School without even putting in place colleges. I am a proud person because, at least, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government built seven new universities. 

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Kalima: Madam Speaker, that was tertiary education. Why have we just concentrated on the lower level education? I am urging the New Dawn Government to also look into tertiary education because it is cardinal otherwise it will just be basic education everywhere, which does not add any value.

 

Madam Speaker, I am now going to comment on the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Yes it is a good move that we have moved from K1.6 million to K25.7 million. It is commendable. However, look at the use of that money. They have moved everything into there. Therefore, I propose that the CDF be increased even to K200 million to carter for more projects in the constituency. That will be fine, given that you cannot build a bridge in K25.7 million or a local court in K25.7 million. Of course, it is an improvement, but we need to increase it so that we empower the people of Malole. That way, the bridges could be constructed in Mabula, and schools could be built. I will give you an example. Since1964 I have not had a police station in Malole.

 

Hon. Government Members: PF

 

Amb. Kalimi: It is unacceptable. Of those are saying PF, some were ministers in the MMD, but they did not see that there was no police station in Malole. They are seated here.

 

Interruptions

 

Amb. Kalimi: What were they doing? Then today they come and blame the PF. Let us take responsibility.

 

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Malole Parliamentary Constituency, please resume your seat briefly.

 

Hon. Members, debating and interjecting while you are seated is not allowed. Let us allow the hon. Member of Parliament for Malole to debate. I have already guided that if you have a point in response, put it down and respond. However, remember, the way you debate also attracts counter debates. So moderate your language as you debate. 

 

Amb. Kalimi: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for that protection. However, let us look at the girl child. Yes, it is very important that we are moving from 28,964 to 43,520. This move to support the girl child is a very welcome.

 

Madam Speaker, we have left out the people with disabilities. How are we going help the people with disabilities? Pupils with disabilities are not covered in this Budget, but they are also voters and human beings. The Budget has not said anything about people living with disabilities.

 

Madam Speaker, I will give a brief background. The PF Government constructed 14,234 primary schools. That is very remarkable. They built 4690 secondary schools, fourteen trade schools and seven universities. Which Government is going to do that? We set the bar, as the PF Government. Let us give commendation where it is due.

 

Madam Speaker, we need to be very practical in the way we do things. It is just a matter of saying this and that. Of course, I do commend the Government for saying that it is going to build 120 schools. That is commendable.  However, the PF, as a Government, did more than this.

 

Madam Speaker, we cannot give bursaries from CDF, which is 25 per cent. It is unacceptable. Let us have a modality of how we are going to provide bursaries to these people who need it.

 

With these few remarks, I submit.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I want to build on what my colleague the Member of Parliament for Malole, Hon. Kalimi, said.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to start with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We commend the idea of increasing the CDF. However, we reject the notion that Government must abdicate its functions to constituencies and councils. It is clear that there has been a clarion call over and over again that the value of CDF has not been sufficient. The increase in this value has been progressive. There was a time when CDF was K60,000 when Hon. Daniel Munkombwe was Minister of Decentralisation, may his soul rest in peace. There was a time it moved to K1.3 and million in 2016, it was moved to K1.6 million. What the people of Zambia will not accept is to be duped that there has been an increase of CDF when the state is abdicating its mandate to provide its sole functions to the people.

 

Mr B. Mpundu: Hammer

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, the Government cannot transfer the construction of classrooms, courts, bridges, and other things to constituencies and local councils. It wants to transfer job creation to constituencies and local councils and yet as Government, it wants to play a safe game so that come 2026, when there is failure to deliver, it is going to point at constituencies and councils.

 

Mr Kamboni: Question!

 

Mr Chanda: That is not acceptable. I stand on this platform on behalf of the people of Kanchibiya saying that we support the ideal of increasing CDF in the context of the CDF Act 2018. We refuse to accept that CDF must be improvised upon by the State running away from its core responsibilities to the people.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Kanchibiya will come to this House with a Motion to urge the Government to amend the Constituency Development Fund Act in order for the disbursement of the CDF to be mandatory because in the current shape, Part II of the Constituency Development Fund Act does not provide a mandate as to when the Government should release this fund. The Government can release this fund in October, November or December. So, on behalf of the people of Kanchibiya, I will propose through this House that we have a mandatory disbursement of the CDF. There is no responsible hon. Member of Parliament in this House who would say no to a Motion that mandates the Government to release the CDF in the first thirty days of the calendar year.

 

 Hon. UPND Members: Why did you not do that in the past? 

 

Mr Chanda: Yes, you can ask why we did not do it in the past, but you are in the Government today unless, you want us to live in the past.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chanda: The responsibility of the Government is not to give excuses. You are in the Government to deliver. If you cannot deliver and are not ready for the heat in the kitchen, get out!

 

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

 Mr Chanda: Let people who are ready to lead, stay in the kitchen.

 

Mr Michelo: Question!

 

Ms Kasanda: On a point of Order, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

 Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, there are no points of order.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kanchibiya, please, resume your seat.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, can we have some order in the House!

 

Hon. Members, who are debating, do not respond to people who are debating from their seats because that is going to cause total anarchy in the House. I have already guided that if an hon. Member has a point, he/she should take it down and raise it in a response. Do not use unparliamentary language as you are debating. Please, continue as you moderate your language.

 

 Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. I do not think the words ‘get out’ are unparliamentary.

 

 Madam Speaker: Order!

 

 Hon. Member for Kanchibiya, I have already guided. Would you really love to be curtailed? Please, continue and follow the guidance that has been given.

 

 Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I am guided.

 

 Madam Speaker, the duty of the Government is to deliver and not to give excuses. When you go on a campaign trail and make promises, integrity demands that you must be men and women of your words. The United Party for National Development (UPND) Government promised that it would create jobs.

 

 Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

 

Mr Chanda: One way of creating jobs would be to promote small scale entrepreneurs in this country. As we see it, the hon. Minister of Small and Medium Enterprise Development has been given a raw deal. That is mockery. If the UPND Government is serious about creating jobs, I appeal to the good hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to revisit the allocation to the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. This is not cheap politics. It is about the lives of the young people and our mothers and fathers out there who are entrepreneurs.

 

Madam Speaker, I come from a rural constituency. I was brought into this world by my father who was a policeman and my mother who went up to Grade 5, and I know the value of entrepreneurship. So, those who are job seekers will clap at anything and everything because they chose to move from being backbenchers to Cabinet Ministers. However, K350 million that has been allocated to the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development is a drop in the ocean and a mockery.

 

 Madam Speaker, I am a bearer of a message from the youth bulge also called the eleventh province of Zambia, the young people. Our colleagues might choose to disregard this, but it will come to haunt them. Forewarned is forearmed

 

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, the small holder farmers in this country want their supplementary packs of seed. The Government should give them. The small holder farmers who have not been paid by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) said that they will not plant neither will they eat speeches. The salon owners, barbershop owners and restaurant owners are saying no to electricity hikes as being proposed by this Budget.

 

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

 Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, the taxi drivers, minibus drivers, and the young professionals are saying no to fuel increment.

 

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

 Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, good luck to those who wish to bury their heads like a camel, but the people are saying no to a fuel increment. A common man is saying that the cost of living is biting and rising, and that this Budget must work in a way that will break down the cost of living for the people.

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

 The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

 Madam Speaker: Hon. Members, as you debate, please, tone down. As long as we are in this House, tone down. When you go out in the street, then, you can shout at each other on a lighter note.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simushi (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Sikongo an opportunity to add their voice to the Motion on the Floor of this House.

 

 Madam Speaker, from the outset, I commend His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the leadership they have shown in delivering a Budget that is not only inspirational, but which has given high hope to the people of Zambia that this country is once again back on the right track in terms of development.

 

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, this is the first Budget under the New Dawn Administration and our colleagues on the left have been left with shivers because it has taken them out of the race.

 

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

 Mr Simushi:  Madam Speaker, they have gone into oblivion and they are aware that come 2026, we will not hear of the Patriotic Front (PF) again in this country.

 

Madam Speaker, our President has done something unprecedented in the history of this country. He has done what others failed to do and he has taken resources to the constituencies and wards where they are needed. That is highly commendable. Our colleagues left money hanging at the top so that they could easily steal that money.

 

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, they are complaining about the money going down and why the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been increased. Further, they are saying that those functions should have been left at the line ministries because their line of development was so bad, very biased and on tribal lines. They did not release the CDF in certain years and they released it in piecemeal in certain years. Unfortunately, that only happened to constituencies they thought were United Party for National Development (UPND) strongholds like those in the North-Western, the Southern and the Western provinces. They used the money under line ministries to construct hospitals, clinics and so on and so forth in their constituencies, which was sad. However, I am very happy to note that the New Dawn Administration under President Hakainde Hichilema is not going that route. The President wants to unite this country. He has given money everywhere and he is going to do it timely. On behalf of the people of Sikongo, I commend President Hakainde Hichilema because Sikongo Parliamentary Constituency is one of the least developed constituencies in this country. The people of Sikongo lack the basic needs of life. However, through this Budget, Sikongo Parliamentary Constituency is now going to develop like Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency. We will use the K25.7 million to build schools, clinics, bridges and local courts and we were able to carry out these projects when the CDF was K1.6 million. I was surprised to hear people complain that the CDF will now be used to build local courts. This was done even previously. So, I see a lot of ignorance from some hon. Members. I hear people talk about how the CDF –

 

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Sikongo, please, withdraw the word ‘ignorance’.

 

Mr Simushi: I withdraw it Madam Speaker. Thank you very much.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Simushi: I replace it with lack of understanding.

 

Madam Speaker, the UPND Government has broken positive records for that matter. It has increased the CDF drastically from K1.6 million to K25.7 million and that is highly commendable. It is an inclusive Government that is highly commendable.

 

Madam Speaker, I think what our colleagues did was really a mess to this country. First and foremost, in their budgets, they procured police equipment to brutalise the people. That was bad. They bought expensive fire tenders at exaggerated prices. That was very bad. They bought jets at unprecedented prices. The Patriotic Front (PF) Party is the only political party in the history of this country so far to have only served two terms. What a record!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Simushi: It is the only political party in this country that lost by over 1 million votes. I am talking about records here, Madam Speaker. I am not exaggerating things. These are facts.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Administration in its manifesto talked about creating jobs and we are walking the talk under the leadership of His Excellency, President Hakainde Hichilema. Thirty thousand jobs are going to be created for teachers and 11,200 jobs are going to be created in the health sector. That is walking the talk. We are also going to create many jobs through the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development. At the constituency level, the President said that we should employ local people to do contractual jobs.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simushi: What a leader we have! No wonder our colleagues are shivering because they know that at the end of five years, they are gone.

 

Madam Speaker, after inheriting an economy that is on its knees, the UPND Government was able to come up this kind of Budget that is making our colleagues have shivers. How about the next budget …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simushi: … and the next budget…

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simushi: …and the next budget? We are going to have a one party State.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, my advice to my colleagues on the left is that the door is open; they should join the UPND.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Mr Simushi: Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to speak on the Floor of the House.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Thank you, Mr Speaker –

 

Laughter

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mtayachalo: Sorry. Thank you, Madam Speaker, for according me this opportunity to debate the 2022 National Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, for presenting this Budget. I have no doubt that Hon. Dr Musokotwane possesses abundant wealth of experience in economic management having worked with him in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

 

Madam Speaker, I briefly describe this Budget as being highly ambitious and populist. I hope it will be implemented because, in the past, good budgets have been presented, but the implementation has been a different issue.  It is our desire that we do not go back to the socialist era where people were promised an egg a day, but that could not be sustained. So, it is our prayer that whatever is in this Budget is going to be implemented and sustained.

 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the road infrastructure. In the Budget, the hon. Minister has allocated only K4.9 billion for road infrastructure against the K6.2 billion in the 2021 National Budget. This is worrisome for the people of Chama North Parliamentary Constituency because they hoped that the Chama/Matumbo/Lundazi Road was going to be included in the 2022 National Budget because they have suffered enough. They have lived on broken promises since Independence. Every rainy season, the district is cut off completely from the rest of the country. So, it is our prayer that the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government will build on the successes of the Patriotic Front (PF) in terms of road infrastructure.

 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the workers. I come from a very strong trade union background having served as General-Secretary of the National Energy Sector and Allied Workers Union. Thus, the workers are close to my heart. I analysed this Budget and there is very little to write home about for the workers in this country. The workers in this country make huge sacrifices, but at the end of the day, they get a raw deal. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to tell that even pre-independence, the mine workers fought against colonial domination. In 1991, the same workers fought against the one party State dictatorship. The same workers have put successive governments in office, but at the end of the day, they are given a raw deal.

 

Madam Speaker, the UPND Government promised the public sector workers that they would be given a significant salary increment and it is in public domain that they will be given K1,500 increment across the board. However, this is not the case. I appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to think twice because workers have sacrificed. In the last five or six years, the workers have not had any meaningful salary increment despite the rapid depreciation of the Kwacha and the increase in inflation, which has eroded their purchasing power.

 

Madam Speaker, the workers sacrificed during the Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Completion Point. We fought running battles with the Mwanawasa Government over the wage freeze, but at the end of the day, we achieved the HIPC Completion Point because of the sacrifices of the Zambian workers. Therefore, I appeal to the UPND Government that the workers deserve to also receive a fair share of the national cake in the 2022 National Budget. So, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should consider our workers who have made huge sacrifices because labour is the most important factor of production and it drives the wheels of production.

 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the energy sector. Energy is a catalyst of economic development. Without affordable energy, you cannot move the wheels of production. In the Budget, the hon. Minister proposes cost reflective tariffs.

 

Madam Speaker, it is not long ago when electricity tariffs were increased by 200 per cent, especially for the domestic category. I run a very small business in Chama and before the 200 per cent increment, just for a small hammer mill, we were paying K800, but now we are paying K2,800 per month. Now, if they say that they are going to increase electricity tariffs, they mean that the people in Chama will now be paying K4,000 for electricity. Where is that money going to come from?

 

Madam Speaker, I want to appeal to this Government because I think this is the mistake the Patriotic Front (PF) Government made. We were warned that the tariff adjustments were going to cause serious economic challenges in the Zambian economy. We saw what happened at the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and the Mopani Copper Mines (MCM). There were job losses because of the high cost of energy.

 

Madam Speaker, it is my prayer that the people of Zambia have endured and sacrificed enough. After all, Zambia is not in an electricity crisis. We were in an electricity crisis two years ago. We must thank the PF Government for investing about US$2 billion in the Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station (KGL), a major investment of the last forty-five years. The last power station was built by the late former President, KK, in 1977. I think that is not a mean achievement. I am aware that come next year, Zambia is going to have abundant power, which will meet the domestic and export markets. So, where is the rationale for increasing the electricity tariffs?

 

Madam Speaker, there are so many pipeline investments in the energy sector. Once these pipeline investments are completed, I think Zambia will be the net exporter of electricity in Southern Africa. I do not subscribe to notions that Zambia has the lowest electricity tariffs in the region. To me, that does not make economic sense because the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and per capital income differ from one country to another. It does not mean that if in Botswana they pay more for electricity, then Zambians must also pay more. So, this is my appeal, just to support my colleagues –

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

 

Madam Speaker: Order!

 

Madam Speaker: Any hon. Member wishing to make their Maiden Speech?

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MOTION

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Government Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

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The House adjourned at 1834 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 4th November, 2021.

 

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