Thursday, 14th October, 2021

Thursday, 14^th October, 2021

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

FURNITURE AND TEACHING MATERIALS FOR CHITAMBO EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION PUPILS

34. Mr Mutale (Chitambo) asked the Minister of Education:

whether the Government has any plans to procure furniture and teaching materials for the early childhood education pupils in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Education (Mr Syakalima): Madam Speaker, yes, the Government has plans to procure furniture and teaching materials for early childhood education pupils in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, the plan will be implemented once resources are made available.

Madam Speaker, due to the response to part (b) of the question, part (c) falls off.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has spoken of funds being made available. As hon. Minister of Education, when does he plan to put the early childhood education tools and learning instruments in his ministerial budget? The people of Chitambo want to know when the procurement will be done.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I am sure the hon. Member listened to what I said.

Madam Speaker, the curriculum for early childhood education was revised in 2014 but, over the years, I think nothing has been working out. That is why I am working with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to do something about the situation. The curriculum was revised in 2014, but the current early childhood education system was planned a long time ago. In 1996, I think we formulated the ‘Educating Our Future’ policy, and early childhood education was imbedded in it. Over the years since, we have done nothing and even when the curriculum was revised in 2014, we still lag behind in that area. So, I am pretty sure that working straight with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, we will start from somewhere.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I am very happy with the answers I am receiving from the hon. Minister of Education, but he is not being clear. The people of Chitambo yearn for a clear answer on when the hon. Minister will procure the materials. When is he going to sit down with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning? Is it this year or next month? We are not saying we are not getting the answers. We are. However, what we want to know is when the plans will be implemented.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, as I have stated, the curriculum for early childhood education was last revised in 2014. Over the years, nothing has been done, and I am assuring my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo, that discussions will be held this year and that the Budget is expected in the next few days. In the Budget, we can look out for this programme. The hon. Member will see for himself what will be provided.

Madam Speaker, early childhood education is important to us because that is where the seed is planted. I am very serious about it because once the seed does not geminate properly, we will not have a good society. Sometimes, school is part of social security for our children. So, in the coming years, you will see a shift towards more prioritizing the sector.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the responses that he is giving. He has partly tackled my question by acknowledging that early childhood education is very important, as that is the seed.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister will agree with me that one of the key milestones of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government in the education sector was the introduction of early childhood education, which led to an improvement in enrolment numbers and performance at the lower primary level. Seeing as the programme is already being implemented in Chitambo, is the ministry planning to open more early childhood centres in the Constituency. So far, despite some challenges, the results have been very good.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, in fact, the centres are already there. The early childhood education centres are just annexes to primary schools; they are not yet standalone centres. In Chitambo, there are forty-six centres run by the Government, except for one run by the community.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, the New Dawn Government has emphasised quality education, but quality education can only be realised if the foundation is good. That foundation is early childhood education. In that regard, the people of Chitambo are asking when the hon. Minister is going to provide furniture and learning materials. The case throughout the country is that children do not have furniture and learning materials. So, we want to know when the hon. Minister is going to make these things available.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, as I said, the furniture and learning materials will be made available when the money is there to start procuring. Again, I assure the House on that.

Madam Speaker, like I said, the introduction was in 2014 and, over the years, nothing much happened. We are now in 2021. So, we are talking about many years without much input into the sector, which means that even if we opened up more centres, we will have challenges. Like I said, in Chitambo, there are forty-six centres, with one being run by the community. It means that over the years, we have neglected the provision of learning materials, and there are many things that are required for early childhood learning, including chairs and tables. So, if we introduced more centres, we are going to have to begin providing the requisites, and doing that requires money. This is why I am saying I have to liaise with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning if we are to realise this dream in its fullness.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, thank you very much for according me the opportunity to pose a follow-up question to the hon. Minister of Education.

Mr Kambita’s link got disconnected.

Madam Speaker: As we wait for the hon. Member for Zambezi East to get reconnected, the hon. Member for –

Mr Kambita interjected.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Zambezi East, are you there?

Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, I am here, but I think I am having – (inaudible). Am I audible now?

Madam Speaker: Kind of, but your connection is breaking.

Mr Kambita: Alright, I will attempt to ask my question briefly. I am having intermittent connectivity.

Madam Speaker, it is very clear that the challenges that we face today emanate from a lack of implementation of Government policies by the previous regime. It was in 2011 that the then President, the late Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, launched the early childhood education programme, and that was – (inaudible) enough. It was, however, – (inaudible) the hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo is lamenting the fact that the children who were recruited in those schools have nowhere to sit. Would the hon. Minister not take advantage of this important question to explain the New Dawn Government’s policy and link that to what the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Hakainde Hichilema’s pronouncements on how we are going to ensure that no child sits on the floor?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think the pronouncements of the Head of State are very clear. So, the only thing that remains for us to do is implement the pronouncements, which are also a policy matter. However, to avoid pre-empting the second question that I am going to answer, I think I can end here.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga (Mpika Central): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister very much for making himself available to respond to our questions. Having realised that access to early childhood education is very low in Zambia, especially among the vulnerable groups –

Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I am rising on a very serious point of procedure under Standing Order 71, on which I met all the qualifications of admissibility of a question to a Minister. I am wondering why the hon. Minister is not answering the question on when the procurement of learning materials for preschool education will be done in Chitambo. Is the hon. Minister in order to fail to answer a straightforward question?

Madam Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chitambo, the hon. Minister of Education has kept saying that the facilities will be provided when the money is available and that he is relying on the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for funding. As you are aware, the Budget has not yet been presented. So, I believe the hon. Minister is answering in accordance with the information that he has before him. So, I believe he has answered the question. As to stating when, exactly, the materials will be procured, it appears to not be possible for him until the Budget is presented before this honourable House.

The hon. Member for Mpika Central may continue.

Mr Kapyanga: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving the people of Mpika Central this opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Education a question.

Madam Speaker, after realising that access to early childhood education was very low in Zambia, especially among the vulnerable groups in rural constituencies like Chitambo and Mpika Central, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government introduced early childhood education in Government-run schools because by then only 17.3 per cent – (inaudible) childhood education. Following that achievement, the Government then also introduced the early childhood education course in teaching colleges. As a result, we have a number of early childhood education teachers who have not been employed. Is the hon. Minister of Education going to employ early childhood education teachers and deploy them to Chitambo Constituency?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the principal question was really not about teachers; it was about the procurement of learning materials. However, I will answer the question by saying that in the last question that I was answering, I said that this year or the next, after the Budget is approved, the ministry is going to employ more teachers at all levels than we have seen happen in the last fifteen years. Early childhood education teachers are included among those to be recruited. That is why I said, “… at all levels”.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, one issue that caught my attention is that the Ministry of Education and the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government are committed to making the sitting of our children on the floor history. As someone from a rural constituency, I know that the hon. Minister’s predecessors did a lot to address early childhood administration; he is not starting at zero. Can the hon. Minister tell us when the Government intends to make the sitting of our children on the floor history?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I cannot say that it will happen tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, two weeks from now or an hour from now. We know the myriad of problems in our school system. There is no one who does not know what has been obtaining in our education system. I admit we have a mammoth task because, over the years, we have neglected early childhood learning. So, even though the hon. Member has said that we are starting from somewhere, it is the same as starting from zero.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Syakalima: Yes, I can tell you that.

Madam Speaker, I said that there are forty-six Government schools and one community school in Chitambo that have annexes that offer early childhood education. Over the years, in those forty-six schools, about twenty-nine items are required, but only five are available in some schools under the Parent-Teachers Association (PTA), not directly under the Government. So, you can see the huge task we have ahead of us. It will take time, but we will begin in a massive way. As I said yesterday, the Ministry of Education constitutes half of the Civil Service in Zambia. So, it is a huge task to make the sitting of our children on the floor history, but I know that we will get there.

Madam Speaker, is it not unacceptable that in a land where there are so many trees, children still sit on the floor? Had we begun earlier, today, we could have been talking about 50 per cent or 60 per cent of the work having been done and finishing the remaining 40 per cent. Would it not have been better that way? We also want to leave the situation somewhere, and that is the commitment we make. It was bad enough that over the years, we introduced early childhood learning without providing what goes with it. So, we have embarked on this journey, and I am pretty sure in my mind that we shall make the sitting of our children on the floor history.

Madam Speaker, from 1964 to date, how do we look at ourselves, as a country, when children sit on the floor? It is unacceptable, to tell the truth, and very sad because when we were in Grade 1 – there was no early childhood learning – we sat on desks. What we are trying to do is not new. Somewhere, somehow, we lost it. Initially, the desks were there and none of us sat on the floor. We have just indoctrinated our people to accept that things will never be good, and many citizens think this is the way Zambia has always been. However, Zambia was a better country to live in, and it can still be a better country to live in.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sampa (Matero): Madam Speaker, –

Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for providing us with the Standing Orders, which stipulate the criteria for admissibility of questions and how questions must be answered.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to deny the people of Chitambo an answer when he has already stated that the ministry has plans to procure furniture and teaching materials? Why is the hon. Minister failing to tell the people of Chitambo when the procurement will be done?

I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chitambo, you raised the same point of order earlier and a ruling was rendered. So, you are out of order to ask that question again.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: May the hon. Member for Matero continue.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, I have been following the hon. Minister’s responses closely and I have heard him say that there is a programme in progress to provide furniture for early childhood education pupils in Chitambo. I would like to find out –

Mr Chanda: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Matero!

Hon. Member for Kanchibiya, please, resume your seat.

Hon. Member for Matero, you have the Floor. Please, ask your question.

Mr Sampa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that there is programme in place to procure furniture for early childhood education pupils in Chitambo. Since he has been in office for only three weeks or so, can he confirm that the programme he is implementing was left in place by his predecessors? While he is at it, can he also confirm that the pupils in early childhood education will learn free of charge, as per the United Party for National Development (UPND) policy of providing free education?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I was talking about the Budget because in the current Budget, there is nothing for procuring furniture for early childhood education. If the hon. Member cared enough to listen, he would have heard me say that the procurement will be done when funds are made available. I hope that there will be funds in the Budget the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will present.

Madam Speaker, I will avoid answering the other question because it is not related to the main question. Suffice it for me to say that when we procure the desks, pupils will sit on them free of charge, and that is free education. We will not sell the desks to pupils.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani (Namwala): Madam Speaker, has the procurement of furniture and materials for early childhood education just started? If not, what did the hon. Minister find on his desk when he took over? What plan did the Patriotic Front (PF) leave on the same?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I found nothing, and that is why I said that in Chitambo, in particular, the of the twenty-nine items required, only five are provided, and by the PTA, not the Government. We introduced early childhood education but, over the years, we have not done anything to support it, and that is why I said that we will start doing so.

Madam Speaker, when I said, “When money will be available”, it meant that this year, there is literally no money. I am just waiting for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to provide something for us to start with, and I know the provision will be made.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chewe (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, since the hon. Minister of Education is not in a position to tell this honourable House when the Government is going to provide furniture in Chitambo Constituency and across the country, what measures is he putting in place to ensure that our children stop sitting on the floor?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, when I say, “When funds are made available”, one cannot say that I have failed to answer. Funds are made available in terms of budgeting. So, even when the hon. Member asks me what the immediate plans are, the answer is that the immediate plans would need funds, too, but there are no funds for that in the Budget. That is what I mean in what I call ‘real British English’. The hon. Member does not need to ask the same question in another way when the answer has already been given. Of course, he is at liberty to do that.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Education!

Mr Mabeta (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, it is a known fact that the previous Government, the Patriotic Front (PF), lacked basic understanding of public finance. As a result, it embarked on an ambitious journey of borrowing without understanding the implications on social amenities, such as education. Now that the country is depending on the United Party for National Development (UPND) to solve its problems, is the hon. Minister considering coming up with short-term measures, such as repairing the already existing desks, which our good friends failed to do? There are many broken desks in schools. So, instead of focusing on buying new ones, maybe, we should repair what is there.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, that is what we want to start encouraging in schools. Somebody told me that the problem is that our vocabulary does not include the word ‘maintenance’. We should start preaching maintenance so that things are maintained before they break down irreparably. We see many potholes on some roads because we have not put the word ‘maintenance’ in our vocabulary even though it used to be there and should be reintroduced. After repairing the desks, we must ensure that people maintain them. Whenever we see something broken, we must repair it. Some buildings are dilapidated and may as well be brought down but, if they were maintained over the years, they would still look good.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo (Shiwang’andu): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister’s responses.

Madam Speaker, what is the Government’s policy on early childhood education in Chitambo and beyond? I ask this question so that we avoid this blame game.

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order, but I am forced to do so this afternoon because of the nature of sentiments that have been made by the hon. Member for Kankoyo, who has stated that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government had no idea of financial management.

Madam Speaker, our Standing Orders clearly state that what we present on the Floor of this House should be factual. Is the hon. Member in order to insinuate that the PF Government had no understanding of financial management, yet he is in this House because of the Budget that was passed by the PF Government? Further, he probably travels faster from Kankoyo to Lusaka because of the new international airport that was constructed by the PF and was inspected by the New Dawn hon. Minister of Transport and Communication.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, is he in order to insinuate that the PF Government did not know financial management?

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: The Standing Orders are very clear on the nature of questions to be asked. I refer the hon. Member and the House to Standing Order 71, which prescribes the criteria for admissibility of questions, particularly part (c), which states as follows:

“Does not ask for an expression of opinion or the solution of an abstract legal question of a hypothetical proposition.”

So, as we debate, hon. Members, and ask questions, let us try to be factual. When questions express an opinion, that is not allowed by our own Standing Orders. So, the hon. Member who expressed an opinion while asking a question is out of order.

Hon. Minister of Education, you can answer the follow-up question from the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member’s question is totally new. Here, we are talking about the supply of desks and learning materials, not articulating policy. Articulating policy here? Out of this question?

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: The principal question is on procurement, not policy. So, the hon. Member should file in a question if he wants me to come and articulate policy issues.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Lubozha (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, I have also heard the lamentations of the hon. Member for Chitambo over the constant sitting of early childhood learners on the floor. By virtue of the vulnerability that surrounds these learners, they are likely to contract diseases as they continue to sit on the floor. However, we appreciate the hon. Minister of Education’s statement that the Government will scout for money. My concern is about whether the hon. Minister is considering bringing the private sector on board and assist in the provision of desks for early childhood learners, who may be at a very vulnerable stage? Private partners and other co-operating partners can supplement the ministry’s efforts.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, yes.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Anakoka (Luena): Madam Speaker, –

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to raise this very important point of order. I apologise to the hon. Member for Luena, who was about to pose a question.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Education should understand that he is now a Cabinet Minister and that when he comes here, he must treat our questions with the importance they deserve.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his responses, acknowledged that early childhood education infrastructure are annexures to primary schools that exist and went on to share a number of challenges. So, when I was asking him, as the current hon. Minister of Education, about the policy regarding early childhood education, I expected him to understand that, yes, we know the question on the Floor, but his responses were more or less on policy. Is he in order to respond with answers like “Yes” or “It is not a policy.”? We want to be treated with respect in this august House.

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: When you never treated us with respect?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker: In view of the several points of orders that have been raised on this issue, I will reserve my ruling so that we can make some progress.

Hon. Member for Luena, please, continue with your question.

Mr Anakoka: Madam Speaker, given that some of the challenges the hon. Minister will face in relation to the supply of furniture in schools, including to the early childhood learning centres, will be as a result of, sometimes, questionable contracts for the supply of furniture that were entered into by the previous regime, is his ministry in a position to furnish the House with a list of contracts that were entered into by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government so that we can be apprised on the contracts that were entered into and the furniture that was supposed to be supplied? We want to know whom we should be asking questions regarding the supply of furniture to schools.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I do not have those contracts now. However, I can provide them later, after I check at the ministry.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtayachalo (Chama North): Madam Speaker, the lack of desks in schools is a countrywide problem, especially for schools in rural areas like my constituency, Chama North.

Madam Speaker, in secondary schools, we teach wood work and metal work. Are there plans in the future to invest in learning institutions so that they can make their own furniture instead of always depending on the Central Government to provide the desks?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I think that this is a very important question because we are already saying that schools should be encouraged to engage more in production so that they become self-reliant. Some schools are getting into aquaculture while others are doing what we are talking about; making desks. So, we can only encourage schools that teach wood work to start producing en mass. That is what we are trying to do as a ministry.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutinta (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, my question is related to the preceding one.

Madam Speaker, given the creation of the Ministry of Small and Medium Enterprise Development, I am thinking of how we can create linkages so that the procurement and delivery of some desks can be done locally in the spirit of empowering young people who want to venture into the business of producing school furniture, and ensuring that we get value. I ask this because the materials used to produce most of the products that we are talking about can be sourced locally. Is this something the hon. Minister is contemplating venturing into?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, before I answer this question, I wish to state that a few minutes ago, my answer to this question would have been ‘Yes’ because how else can I answer when asked whether I am thinking of doing something and I am actually thinking doing that thing? However, when I say ‘Yes’, my hon. Colleagues says that is not courtesy. So, I will just answer the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi by saying ‘We will be doing that’.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Madam Speaker, the hallmark of great leadership is the ability to appreciate what others have done. Unfortunately, it is becoming common knowledge, probably because the United Party for National Development (UPND) was in the wilderness for twenty-three years, that the party’s response to everything it is asked is to blame the Patriotic Front (PF) and accuse it of having done nothing. Does the hon. Minister realise that such kind of answering is breeding ground for his own downfall because he is not bringing solutions to the table? His President, oh, sorry, His Excellency our President, spent hours on radio yesterday playing the blame game. Is this a sign that the UPND had no clue of what governance is all about, since all it does is blame, blame and blame?

Madam Speaker, I need the hon. Minister’s serious answer to this question.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Kawambwa, I have not got the question. Please, ask a specific question. What I got from you was more of a contribution than it was a question

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, am I audible?

Madam Speaker: Yes, you are audible, but try to speak softly like I do.

Mr Chilangwa: Madam Speaker, I will speak exactly like you. It is said, “Follow, follow, follow the leader.” So, I will follow in your footsteps.

Madam Speaker, I said that the hallmark of great leadership is being able to appreciate the foundation that has been laid by others. What I am getting from the hon. Minister of Education is that instead of appreciating the foundation that has been laid, he would rather despise every bit that has been done. Truth be told, this programme was new, and the Patriotic Front (PF) took the bull by its horns. Is it the hon. Minister’s desire to continue apportioning blame instead of giving us solutions, providing leadership in that ministry and taking steps to address the issues that are being raised?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member had been listening very attentively, he would have heard me exude enough knowledge on what we should do. It is not a blame game when one says that the early childhood education programme started in 2014, as that is when it was gazetted. Over the years, we did little if not nothing, truth be stated. So, there is no blame game or a need to say that the President was just blaming, blaming and blaming yesterday. We want to know where we went wrong, first of all, and we must admit.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: If we went wrong somewhere, we should ask how the wrong should be corrected.

Madam Speaker, yesterday, I told the House that if we played around with the education system, we would be playing around with the whole country. Further, just this afternoon, I said that EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION was very important because that is where the seed is planted. Did the hon. Member not listen to all that? He cannot tell me that this is a blame game. If he is attentive enough to me, he knows that I do not easily start blaming others. However, I will tell him where we are coming from, where we are and where the future is. That is the way we have to behave.

Hon. UPND Member: Excellent!

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, let us not behave like in other jurisdictions where they were told to forget that there was Apartheid, that was in South Africa. When children were growing up, they were told that Apartheid had ended and that they had to forget about it. However, when you forget about the past, you are not likely to know where you are going. So, we must tell it all.

Madam Speaker, something went amiss in our country, and we must correct that. Our colleagues must start admitting that somewhere, somehow, there was a problem, and there is still a problem. It seems my colleague wants me to just wake up one day and say ‘Here are 20,000 desks’. How can that be possible? I can tell you that from the time the gazette was published in 2014, had we made a certain number of desks every year, we could have been in a better position today. I will even say that we could have been able to say that 40 per cent or 60 per cent of the desks were provided and ask what we would have needed to do to complete the cycle. That is the issue. So, the hon. Member should not come here and start saying that even the President was blaming people yesterday. Society must be reminded. Otherwise, even we will fail. We do not want failure to be on our tongues. These are small things we are talking about, but there are bigger things we can easily talk about.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

CONSTRUCTION OF MOTHERS’ SHELTER AT CHINSALI GENERAL HOSPITAL

35. Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Health:

whether the Government has any plans to construct a mothers’ shelter at Chinsali General Hospital;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Health (Mrs Masebo): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a mothers’ shelter at Chinsali General Hospital in Chinsali District, and this is contained in the Infrastructure Operational Plan for the 2022 to 2024 Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF).

Madam Speaker, the plans will be implemented when funds are made available.

Madam Speaker, part (c) of the question falls off.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the general hospital serves the people of Chinsali, Shiwang’andu and beyond, and it is operational. However, currently, people who accompany their sick relatives to the hospital have to cook in the open at a place they have identified. With the onset of the rainy season, we cannot imagine how our people will manage to look after their patients. Could any interim measure be put in place to cushion the challenges of our people from far-flung areas who go to look after their patients?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, this issue is not true of Chinsali only, but also countrywide. There are some hospitals countrywide that still have this challenge. As a ministry, we will see what remedial measures we can take in the meantime.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, is it possible for the ministry to consider using one of the structures in which the Chinese contractors were living and where they were storing things as we wait for the mothers’ shelter to be built?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, I cannot immediately say ‘Yes’ or ‘No’. Perhaps, I can request the hon. Member for Chinsali to put his proposal in writing so that I ask the people on the ground, such as the Director of Health at the district level, about it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, when the New Dawn Government was in the Opposition, it never wanted to hear answers like “When funds are available”. We will follow suit.

Madam Speaker, since there is no allocation in this year’s Budget, is the hon. Minister considering presenting a Supplementary Budget so that we can approve the funds for a mothers’ shelter in Chinsali? Mothers’ shelters are very important in almost all hospitals in the country to mothers looking after the sick.

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, it is not desirable to present a Supplementary Budget for such an item and at such a time as this, when we only have ten days before the next Budget is presented. The hon. Member of Parliament must be patient and wait for the 2022 Budget, which will be presented very soon, and might just have space for such things.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hamwaata (Pemba): Madam Speaker, since the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is available, can we use it to construct the mothers’ shelter in Chinsali?

Mrs Masebo: Madam Speaker, indeed, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) can be used for any project that relates to health, education and agriculture. If the hon. Member reads his guidelines, he will see that such are the kind of projects that are permitted by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Rural Development.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

INCLUSIONS OF CHITAMBO SCHOOLS IN ESTABLISHMENT REGISTER

36. Mr Mutale asked the Minister of Education when the following secondary schools in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency will be included on the establishment register:

Chipaata;
Mabonde;
Kafinda;
Misumba; and
Mpelembe.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, I inform the House that Chipaata, Mabonde, Kafinda, Misumba and Mpelembe primary schools were upgraded to secondary schools and granted approved establishments for secondary schools by the Management Development Division. However, the schools still appear as primary schools in the 2020 establishment register and will only be included in the establishment register as secondary schools once Treasury authority is granted to fill up the positions for the secondary school structures.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, has the hon. Minister made a request to the Treasury to have the schools established? I know that he is new in the ministry, but I would like to know if his predecessor already made that request.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, indeed, I was informed that Treasury authority had been sought many times, but it was not granted. I will also seek Treasury authority to fill up the positions for the secondary school structures in many schools across the country, not only for the schools in Chitambo.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Minister for giving me very positive answers. That said, what is the timeframe in which the hon. Minister will deal with this matter of applying for Treasury authority exhaustively?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, when one applies for Treasury authority, one waits for the Treasury to grant the authority. So, we will write to the Treasury after the Budget is presented to see how we can cascade the issue. As I have said, there are many things that were not done over the years and they require Treasury authority. If authority was not granted then, we would like to see some of those things that require it done.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I know that the New Dawn Government is upbeat about the Budget that will be presented, as I have noticed that most of the answers are circling around the Budget. However, the truth of the matter is that the Budget will be a very tight one. So, in the event that the hon. Minister is not given the authority, as was the case with his predecessors, does he have any ideas on how he is going to go around this problem?

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, as I said, you ask for Treasury authority and wait for it. When others were denied it, what did they do? It is my desire and hope that authority will be granted in order for us to start working on all the problems we have. However, we do not hinge on this Budget the solutions to all the problems, but I think we must start from somewhere. That is my way of putting things. Had we started from somewhere, we would be at a different stage. I think that is where we are coming from.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CHITAMBO FACILITY ELECTRIFICATION

37. Mr Mutale asked the Minister of Energy:

whether the Government has any plans to electrify the following facilities in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency:

Lusenga Primary School;
Kafinda Primary School;
Chalilo Primary School;
Chipundu Primary School;
Mpelembe Primary School;
Katonga Primary School;
Lulimala Primary School;
Lusenga Secondary School;
Mpelembe Secondary School;
Kafinda Health Post;
Chalilo Health Post;
Chipundu Health Post;
Mpelembe Health Post;
Katonga Health Post;
Lulimala Health Post;
Chief Chitambo’s Palace; and
David Livingstone Memorial Site;

b. if so, when the project will commence; and

c. if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Kapala): Madam Speaker, yes, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), has plans of electrifying the above-mentioned places in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency under the Rural Electrification Programme (REP).

Madam Speaker, according to the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP), the areas are scheduled for electrification in 2023, subject to the availability of funds.

Madam Speaker, with what I have said above, part (c) of the question falls off.

Madam Speaker, for further clarity, here is some additional information on the matter. In 2018, REA implemented a grid extension project in Chitambo District at a cost of K1,397,196.64. The electrification project covered:

Muchinka Primary School;
Muchinka Rural Health Centre; and
Chitambo Central Business District (CBD).

Madam Speaker, the scope of works involved the construction of 12,000 m of an 11 kVA overhead line and 3,930 m of a 400 kV overhead line, with a tapping point at Mukando. Further, in 2019, the REA completed an exercise to determine the scope and cost of electrifying the above-mentioned load centres in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency, and it was established that K26,821,209.21 would be required. However, given the passage of time, there is a need to update the feasibility study to take care of what is currently on the ground.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his good answer. That said, since he has indicated that he will only electrify the named places in 2023, and given the creation of the Ministry of Green Economy and Environment, is the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) able to come up with a plan to phase out the on-grid connections or use alternative energy solutions?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the essence of starting the project in 2023 is to allow for the conducting of surveys so that appropriate routes of power lines can be established, and the carrying out of an environmental impact assessment (EIA) so that once works start, there will be no further delays to the project.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, since we are talking about energy, may I know from the hon. Minister whether there are plans to electrify other districts in Zambia, such as Luwingu. I ask this question because in Luwingu District, we are yet to hear from the Ministry of Energy whether there are such intentions to electrify places such as Senior Chief Shimumbi’s Palace, Chief Tungati’s Palace, Chief Chipalo’s Palace as well as Luena Mission Secondary School, and the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) works in remote areas. Further, is the hon. Minister in a position to inform the nation on whether load-shedding will be reintroduced?

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, your questions are not related to Question 37.

Mr Mumba: Madam Speaker, considering that the feasibility studies done indicated that electrifying the area in question would cost about K26 million, and that, obviously, in 2022 and 2023, the cost will go up, would the ministry not consider investing in solar energy, especially given that the areas in question consume very little power? Maybe, solar would be a cheaper alternative, and the K26 million can be invested in areas that could help the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) to generate some resources.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, currently, we are reviewing the Power Purchase Agreements (PPAs), and we are in the process of introducing more mini-grids in rural areas. Probably, we will be able to look at the possibility of using mini-grids for all the schools and health posts that need electrification.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutinta: Madam Speaker, I come from a district that produces about 120 MW of electricity. Meanwhile, all the chiefdoms there are not electrified. All they see are poles that were mounted in 2016 under the same project of the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). What criterion is used to select areas that are electrified? In the case of Itezhi-Tezhi, people just see poles that were put up in 2016 and later abandoned.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member, again, that question is not related to Question 37.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, in his earlier response, the hon. Minister mentioned that the feasibility study indicated that about K26 million was needed to electrify the mentioned areas. I note that K26 million is quite a significant figure. Is the hon. Minister considering electrifying the places I asked about in a phased manner?

Mr Chewe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chewe: Madam Speaker, I refer to Standing Order 71(1)(a), which states as follows:

“A question shall be admissible if it is not too general in nature, leading or incapable of receiving a specific answer”.

Madam Speaker, I had asked the hon. Minister of Energy a question regarding Luwingu District, wanting to know if the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) also had plans for the district, since he had agreed with the hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo, who wanted to know if those schools were going to be electrified. I ask the hon. Minister of Energy to shed more light on that issue because this is the platform where we should get answers and give our people in Lubansenshi Constituency feedback.

Madam Speaker: We will disregard that point of order.

Hon. Minister of Energy, you can answer the question posed by the hon. Member for Chitambo.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I ask the hon. Member for Chitambo to repeat the question so that I can respond to it adequately. I was distracted by the hon. Member who rose on a point of order.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chitambo, please, repeat your question.

Mr Mutale repeated his question.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, the K26 million appears to be a lot of money. However, a feasibility study cannot be carried out in phases. These projects take some years to conclude, and other settlements may crop up on the routes of the power lines. So, I suggest to the hon. Member that he be patient, and allow the surveys and the EIAs to be concluded so that if we have to phase the connection of the hospitals and schools, it can be done in a proper manner.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his responses.

Madam Speaker, the situation in Chitambo is similar to that prevailing in Bweengwa Constituency, where about four schools only are electrified. Is the hon. Minister considering coming to the House to share with hon. Members of Parliament the programme for rural electrification between January, 2022, and December, 2023? We would like to know how many schools and constituencies the ministry is going to cover so that as we interact with the people in our constituencies, we will be able to share the programme with them.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I will gladly provide the required information, based on the REMP.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, when I look at the list that has been put up by the hon. Member for Chitambo, it clearly indicates –

Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chifubu!

Please, resume your seat.

Mr Lubozha resumed his seat.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to rise on a point of order on my question.

Madam Speaker, my question was very simple and clear; I asked the hon. Minister of Energy to tell the nation and the people of Chitambo the ministry –

Looking at the figure of K26 million, which was arrived at after a feasibility study, a figure that, to me, appears – (inaudible) and my question was whether he was considering applying himself on this project in a phased manner. Is he in order to not give the people of Chitambo a significant programme in a phased manner?

I need your seriously ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: Hon. Member for Chitambo, you asked that question and the hon. Minister answered it. Do you want to ask it again because the answer was not clear or what? If so, that does not qualify to be a point of order. So, the point of order is overruled.

Hon. Member for Chifubu, you may proceed.

Mr Lubozha: Madam Speaker, the list that has been put up by the hon. Member for Chitambo clearly indicates that electricity services are sorely needed in his constituency. Further, part of the list indicates health posts and clinics. To provide electricity to the standard required by the people of Chitambo, what is the Ministry of Energy doing, in the interim, as we wait for the feasibility study to be undertaken? The ministry could help the people of Chitambo with, maybe, solar energy in the interim. Is the ministry considering putting up solar panels at the clinics and other health posts to help the people of Chitambo while we wait for the feasibility study to be completed and the institutions to be connected to the national grid?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I think what we should know is that putting up solar panels on all rural health posts and schools costs money. So, I would have to get back to the House to confirm whether some money is available for a stop-gap measure while we wait for the EIA and the actual electrification of the posts.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Malambo (Magoye): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the well-articulated answer to questions.

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister likely to consider zero-rating the energy supplies, such as solar systems, especially the importation of solar panels, to enable us to cushion the problems in rural areas like Chitambo and Magoye? As the hon. Minister is aware, our constituency is quite rural. So, if solar panels were zero-rated, most of our farmers and many people could access electricity.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, I think this question touches on policy, and the Ministry of Energy and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning should be able to look at that and come up with a position.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwila (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, I take note of the responses by the hon. Minister on the question on electrification of schools in Chitambo, some of which are based on the Rural Electrification Master Plan of the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). My question is: Is the electrification of schools in Chitambo done in collaboration with the Ministry of Education? If so, how does that collaboration benefit other schools, not only those in the rural areas, but also those in urban that need to be electrified? Even in my constituency, Mufulira, there are schools that are not electrified.

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, we need to separate the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Limited, which deals with urban area electrification, from REA. I came to present the plan for the connection of electricity to Chitambo schools and clinics.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr J. Chibuye (Roan): Madam Speaker, the sites that Chitambo wants to electrify are about seventeen. Is the hon. Minister of Energy considering asking the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) to sub-contract some works to spread it out so that the sites can be electrified in time, especially given that we have a new ministry dealing with small and medium enterprises (SMEs)?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, REA does sub-contract some works. Further, as I said, if REA will have no capacity to carry out the works in the timeframe envisioned, it will invite other companies to tender for the works.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani: Madam Speaker, at the time the hon. Minister of Energy was appointed into office, was there any plan he found on how the Patriotic Front (PF) wanted to have the areas in question electrified, other than what the hon. Minister is putting across today?

Mr Kapala: Madam Speaker, in my answer to part (b) of the question, I referred to the REMP. So, everything is mapped out, and the electrification of the rural areas in question is already planned out. What remains to be done is only the phased rolling out in phases, depending on the funds available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

REHABILITATION OF MBESUMA/KAFWIMBI ROAD

38. Mr Mukosa asked the Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development:

whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the Mbesuma/Kafwimbi Road in Chinsali District;
if so, when the plans will be implemented;
what the estimated cost of the project is; and
what the estimated timeframe for the completion of the project is.

The Minister of Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development (Eng. Milupi): Madam Speaker, yes, the Government has plans to rehabilitate the Mbesuma/Kafwimbi Road in Chinsali District.

Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), is currently undertaking spot improvement works on the Mbesuma/Isoka Road.

Madam, the cost of the works is estimated at K2.4 million.

Madam Speaker, the works are expected to be completed by 31^st December, 2021.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukosa: Madam Speaker, considering that we are only remaining with about two months before we reach 31^st December, 2021, and there are no works being carried out currently, what guarantee is the hon. Minister giving the people of Chinsali and Zambia that the spot improvement project is going to be completed within the remaining two-and-a-half months?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, yes, we can give a guarantee, as stated in the answer above, that the spot works will be completed by 31^st December, 2021. That is the plan. We are talking about the spot works, not the complete rehabilitation of the road; just the patching up of spots where the situation is bad.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, what led to the stoppage of works on that very important road?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member will recognise that we had a number of road projects and that, in the main, it is fair to say that the total cost of all the projects far exceeded the resources that were available. That is why the Government decided to put on hold any project that was less than 80 per cent. We face this problem countrywide. So, the answer to the hon. Member for Chitambo’s question is a lack of resources. That is why in the next Budget, provisions will be made for some of the works to be carried out. However, for the project in question, the ministry is committed to completing the patching works by 31^st December, 2021.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mapani: Madam Speaker, when funds are made available, is it possible for the ministry to consider extending the works to other constituencies, particularly on roads like the Niko/Itapa Road in Namwala Constituency, as it considers working on the road in question?

Eng. Milupi: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member will appreciate that the New Dawn Government is a working Government. The main question relates to the Mbesuma/Kafwimbi Road, which is part of the Mbesuma/Isoka Road. However, the hon. Member asked whether when funds are made available, we will extend works to other areas, specifically Namwala Constituency. He will realise, if he has not already, that two days ago, I used the road he is talking about, the Monze/Niko Road, which I found it in a bad state, and we plan to ensure that is corrected once funds are made available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1615 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 15^th October, 2021.

____________

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