Friday, 11^th October, 2019

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

_______

 

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Speaker, I rise to give the House an idea of the business it will consider next week.

 

Madam Speaker, on Tuesday, 15^th October, 2019, the Business of the House will commence will Questions for Oral answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2020 Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, on Wednesday, 16^th October, 2019, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then conclude the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2020 Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, on Thursday, 17^th October, 2019, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. The House will then deal with presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

 

1. Head 01 - Office of the President - State House;
2. Head 02 - Office of the Vice-President; and
3. Head 19 - Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit.

 

I thank you.

 

_______

 

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

 

Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Madam Speaker, the local court in Lufwanyama Constituency, particularly in Chief Nkana’s area, is 80 per cent complete. When is the Government going to complete the construction works on this court?

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Speaker, quite a number of infrastructure such as schools, hospitals, local courts and roads have not been completed. The President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, gave a directive that all the infrastructure projects at certain levels of completion should be examined to ascertain which ones should be funded for completion. Those that are at 80 per cent complete and above will definitely require support from the Treasury to complete them. I am sure this may include that local court, depending on the state of development at which it is.

 

I thank you, Madam, Speaker.

 

Mr W. Banda (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, there are media reports suggesting that the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) will only conduct delimitation after the amendment of the Constitution. What is her comment on this matter?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, in accordance with Article 58(5) of the Constitution of Zambia Amendment Act No. 2 of 2016, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) is mandated to conduct the delimitation of constituencies and wards. In view of this mandate, the ECZ has conducted sittings in all the districts of the country and currently, it is poised to undertake sittings in the provinces to solicit stakeholders’ views on the delimitation of constituencies and wards.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to emphasise that the Commission will only be able to effect the delimitation of the new constituencies once the Constitution is amended. This is because the number of constituencies is contained in the Republican Constitution under Article 58(2) and Article 68(2)(a). Article 58(2) states that: “The number of constituencies shall be equal to the number of seats of elected members in the National Assembly”. Further, Article 68(2)(a) states that the National  Assembly –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

May Her Honour the Vice-President please resume her seat. We seem to have an issue with the clock. It is going forward instead of backwards.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can we have some assistance from the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) personnel to get the clock to run correctly.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Is it resolved now?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President may continue with her response.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, if technology is failing us, we may resort to the manual system.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I had just indicated that it is the mandate of the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) to delimit constituencies and wards. Further, I explained that Article 68(2)(a) of the Constitution states that: “The National Assembly shall consist of 156 members directly elected on the basis of the simple majority vote under the first-past-the-post system”. Therefore, it is a requirement under the current Republican Constitution that whenever the ECZ recommends increasing or decreasing the number of constituencies and wards, the relevant articles of the Constitution will need to be amended. That is why it is very important for the House to consider the Constitution (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 to resolve some of these issues.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, what measures has the Government put in place to feed the people of Sikongo who are living on wild fruits and eating grass?

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Does Her Honour the Vice-President want the question to be repeated?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I understand the hon. Member asked when the Government will feed the people of Sikongo.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Yes, Your Honour.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the Government is currently feeding the people of Sikongo. As a matter of fact, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) National Co-ordinator is visiting Sikongo to check on the distribution of relief food to various wards. This exercise is done because the Government has discovered that sometimes, the food is dispatched from wherever it comes from and lands in Sikongo or another district administration centre, but the modalities of distributing that relief food to various communities have been a challenge. However, the Government is confident that this issue will be resolved. I know that a number of supplies have been given to the people of Sikongo over the past few months.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Madam Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia has been carrying out the delimitation exercise in all constituencies. It also announced that in 2020, it will carry out a National Census of Population and Housing. I want to find out whether these two activities correlate. One would think that population census is one important component in the delimitation process. The Government has started with delimitation before conducting the census. How relevant will the exercise be towards achieving the required benchmarking in terms of delimitation of the nation?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, delimitation of constituencies and wards is very different from the census that a country conducts at intervals to determine the number of people who were born or are being born and those who could have died, etcetera. In the case of Zambia, the census is conducted every ten years. These two exercises are very important. One is meant to determine the population of the country and the other is meant to help the Government ensure service delivery to the people. Delimitation also enables representatives in the councils or in Parliament to reach all the areas where the voters are without any difficulty. The hon. Member can see that the two are totally different.

 

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Putu (Mangango): Madam Speaker, it has been reported that the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU) held a meeting to share concerns about the Government’s lack of action and guidance on the early maize project. What is the Government doing to ensure the implementation of the project?

 

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this is an area where the Government is collaborating closely with the private sector. In the discussions between the Ministry of Agriculture and the Grain Traders Association, millers and farmers reached an advanced stage regarding the early maize project. A model has been developed that will be a partnership between farmers, traders, millers, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and the Government. Once the discussions are concluded, the ministry will issue a statement on the way forward.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga Central): Madam Speaker, amidst the shortage of maize stock and mealie meal in the country, a few weeks ago, the Government signed a maize and mealie meal deal with our neighbour, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), hoping that there will be a bumper harvest next season. Our plans are not God’s plans. If the bumper harvest fails, is the Government going to reverse the agreement? What will the consequences of this be?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member should know that this Government is determined on diversifying the economy. As hon. Members of this Government, we are looking at the Zambian farmers to concentrate not only on maize, but other crops as well. So, if the maize harvest is not good, there are other crops that we can export to other countries, including the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). The arrangement between the DRC and Zambia is a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU). It is an agreement for supply of maize and other crops to the DRC not this year, but in future, maybe starting in 2020 or 2021, but that agreement is an understanding between the two countries.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me this rare opportunity to ask the Vice-President my first question in the entire one year. Most of the clarifications go to respective hon. Ministers, but this one is very compelling. The people of Milenge are very grateful to the Patriotic Front (PF) Government because today they are connected to the national grid, which was not there before.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbulakulima: Today, they have got enough communication towers, but they are not able to watch the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) television, which they value very much. They have also seen the construction of the provincial headquarters for ZNBC in Mansa, but the transmission line to Milenge is missing. How can this Government help the people of Milenge to watch ZNBC television?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the construction of communication towers is in progress. Currently, there is a terrestrial digital transmitter in Samfya. However, we know that Milenge is far from Samfya and it is not able to be serviced by that transmitter. Nonetheless, the hon. Member may wish to note that the installation of digital transmitters is work in progress for the expansion of digital terrestrial transmission to areas such as Muyombe, Milenge, Maamba and Chilubi Island, which will be covered in subsequent phases. So, the people of Milenge should anticipate connection to the lines so that they receive a television signal hopefully soon.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, the crime levels in Kitwe are on the rise, largely on account of inadequate motorised patrols by the Zambia Police Service in the area. When does the Government intend to procure service vehicles to give to our men and women in uniform so that the rising criminal activities in the area can be contained?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, when hon. Members see the budget for the law enforcement units being increased or stand at a certain figure, they question the value of money being spent on these security wings, forgetting that it is very important for the police service to keep and maintain law and order in the country. The hon. Member of Parliament for Chimwemwe should be assured that the Ministry of Home Affairs is securing motorised transport for the police on the Copperbelt and Chimwemwe in particular, will be covered through that service.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, in his own admission, the President stated whilst in Kaoma that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is broke and as a result, he directed the hon. Minister for Western Province to stop all the construction works in the province. Does that include all projects that are above 80 per cent completion?

 

Mr Kapita: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: On whom?

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  Order on my left!

 

Resume your seat, hon. Minister. I think we all know the rules. In any case, Her Honour the Vice-President will respond to that question.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: If Her Honour the Vice-President needs your assistance, you can go and sit next to her and assist her respond to that question. Her Honour the Vice-President may respond.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I missed the latter part of the question, but all I know is that the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, when he met businessmen in Kaoma never said or uttered the words that the hon. Member for Livingstone is attributing to him.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mulobezi.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mandumbwa (Mulobezi): Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Mulobezi, the House is excited to see you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Maybe you should make it a habit.

 

Mr Mandumbwa: Yes, please!

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mulobezi.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mandumbwa: Madam Speaker, for any area to see meaningful development, there must be a good road network.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mandumbwa: Madam Speaker, for Mulobezi, I am very sorry that we cannot talk of any road that connects us to the rest of the country. Has the Patriotic Front (PF) Government got any immediate plans even to re-grade or re-gravel the only road that connects to the Livingstone/Sesheke Road?

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: Mwapusukeni!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it is interesting to note that the hon. Member for Mazabuka, sorry, …

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: … for Mulobezi makes his contributions only on Fridays and I wonder why. That is why we want this House to support the 2020 Budget so that it can address some of the issues raised by the hon. Member and others regarding the upgrading of roads and other infrastructure.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Mr Speaker, the good people of Mufumbwe told me to ask Her Honour the Vice-President this question. When she went to Kaminzekenzeke in 2016, they asked her if she could help them complete laboratories at Kaminzekenzeke, Kalende and Kashima Secondary Schools, which started in 2011 and are now above 80 per cent completion point. The people are saying that the projects have taken too long to complete. When will the Government complete these projects to allow the pupils to continue learning science subjects?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the plight of the pupils at these secondary schools. However, the hon. Member should be aware that progress is an ongoing process. These schools will be attended to in the course of time and the hon. Minister of General Education will be informed about this promise that was made sometime in the past.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms Kucheka (Zambezi West): Madam Speaker, for the eight years that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has been in power, it has been promising the people of Zambezi West the construction of a bridge on the Zambezi River. However, to-date, nothing has been done. People in Zambezi West are being killed by Karavinas. In August, three people were killed. By the time the police cross from Zambezi East to the west using a pontoon, the criminals would have vanished in thin air. I would like to find out from the Vice-President whether or not the Government will construct a bridge on the Zambezi River before the 2021 elections.

 

Ms Kucheka coughed.

 

Ms Kucheka: I am sorry.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the issue of the bridge on the Zambezi River in Zambezi West will be looked into because it is a very important crossing point to the other side of the Zambezi District. I cannot promise when this will be done, except to say that it is in the Government’s plans.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, firstly, I would like to congratulate the people of Kaoma District for voting for the United Party for National Development (UPND) candidate in the just ended by-election. They were voting with their tears rolling down their faces because of the killing that happened in Kaoma.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Ask your question, hon. Leader of the Opposition in the House.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Impregnating anybody does not take months. It can take a minute and that is what happened in Kaoma when we won.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my right!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President promised the nation and this House that the Government was going to reconstruct the gutted Lusaka City Market within six months and announced that a certain amount of money had been raised from well wishers. A week ago, we were informed by the hon. Minister of Local Government that there was no money whatsoever that was raised in order to reconstruct the Lusaka City Market. I would like to hear from the Vice-President because she mentioned that money had been raised towards the reconstruction of the market. I want to find out from her what happened to that money and why the Lusaka City Market is not being reconstructed.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, after the gutting of the Lusaka City Market, fundraising activities were undertaken and the money that was raised definitely could not rebuild the market. However, the money that was raised from those initiatives is being used on Simon Mwewa Lane Market so that the people who were selling in the Lusaka City Market can find temporal shelter while the Lusaka City Market is being designed and worked on. So, the work on the Lusaka City Market is still in progress. We have not abandoned it.

 

Madam Speaker, the K1.7 million that was raised during these fundraising activities has been applied to works at Simon Mwewa Market.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Evg. Shabula (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, the Government promised the people of Zambia that there would not be any sacred cows in the fight against corruption. We have an issue which is simmering in the nation of the famous forty-eight houses. This is the most topical issue currently. The Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) has failed to identify the owner. Is it the plan of the Government to seek outside assistance from either Scotland Yard of the United Kingdom (UK) or Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) in America so that the truth can come out because, as it is, the whole problem rests on the President and the Office of the Vice-President?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the way some of these issues are highlighted, you begin to wonder whether or not we live in the same country. We know very well that the Government has taken steps to ensure that this case is investigated and the investigations have not ended. By the way, for the hon. Member’s information, the investigative wings have discovered not forty-eight, but fifty-one houses. So, it shows that the Government is working on this issue. Some of the fifty-one houses date back to 2012 and 2013. I wonder whether any or some of the people that are being accused of owning these houses were in offices to acquire those houses. In any case, these houses have been forfeited to the state and whoever the owner is will be discovered because the tenants have been paying rentals all this time.

 

 The Government would like to know who owns those houses, how he acquired resources to build those houses and who the tenants are paying rentals to. It is an important matter that should not be trivialised.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: We know very well that, in this country, fighting corruption should be the work of everyone. If anyone has better information, let him bring it to the investigative wings because that will help them expedite the investigations.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, may I begin by congratulating the Patriotic Front (PF) for gaining one more seat in the North-Western Province.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: I also want to congratulate the United Party for National Development (UPND) for reclaiming the self-induced by-election with a very narrow margin in Kaoma local council chairmanship elections.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: The UPND members are busy posting on social media that this marginal win signifies a wind of change.

 

Hon. Government Members: How?

 

Mr Ndalamei: Yes!

Mr Mutale: Your Honour the Vice-President, may I get your serious comment on this matter.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, order in the House!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the fact that the PF came at the tail end in the 2016 elections but now lost by only 160 votes is an indication that the party has penetrated Kaoma …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: … and other constituencies in the Western Province …

 

Mr Mwale: Ndiye change yamene iyo. Ndiye kuli change kwamene kuja.

 

The Vice-President: … and the North-Western Province. If I were UPND, I would not rest on my laurels …

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: … because the signs are on the wall …

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: … that next time around, the situation may be different.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we may praise ourselves for winning one seat …

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

The Vice-Presient: … but time will tell. The inroads that the PF has made in the North-Western and the Western Provinces cannot be counted out.

 

Madam Speaker, my words of encouragement to the PF is that we should work harder …

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: …and ensure that more people are brought on board. We are determined to ensure that in the next phase before us, we need to see development in the province. By this, we hope to convince the people that Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu is the President for the whole country and he wants to see development in all parts of the country, including Kaoma and the whole of the Western Province. So, there is no wind of change anywhere.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ngulube: It is only in Kaoma.

 

The Vice-President: The people of Kaoma were intimidated to the hilt. I was in the constituency and I saw and heard people shooting guns all over in the air to scare people from voting. That is why many people could not go to cast their votes. It is a great pity because these are opportunities that we have as Zambians to elect people we feel can represent us adequately.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chishala (Roan): Madam Speaker, Roan Constituency has high levels of unemployment.

 

Mr Kambita: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chishala: During the by-election in Roan, the PF Government promised the youth in Roan that it would empower them by giving them the dumpsite for Luanshya Copper Mine and reopening the two idle mine shafts in Luanshya. When is this going to happen? The people are still waiting on the Government to fulfil those campaign promises.

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, Roan Constituency was represented for ten years by an hon. Member of Parliament who we believed took development to that constituency.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: I am surprised to hear that there is very little development in Roan.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the reopening of closed mines and opening of new mines is an ongoing process. When investors are identified, works will start in Luanshya. So, I cannot categorically say when we will open the mine. It is work in progress and soon, we may see some opening through investors who are interested in the mining industry.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, public debt in this country is now chronic and a very big problem, admittedly. Recently, when the hon. Minister of Finance came to this House and answered a question on the Floor of the House, he admitted that the public debt is high. The drafters of our Constitution, in particular, the Constitution (Amendment) Act No 2 of 2016 did provide for regulation of public debt. However, they indicated that the regulation should be prescribed in subsidiary legislation. The big question is: When is the Government going to bring a Bill to this House so that we regulate acquisition of public debt and Government guarantees?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance will, at an appropriate time, bring to the House, the Public Procurement Bill and other Bills related to the financial management of the country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kanchibiya.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Malama: Correct!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Syakalima: Homosexual!

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Malama: Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate the people of Kaoma for acknowledging that the Patriotic Front (PF) is a formidable force and is pro-poor. This can be seen in the increase of the number of people who have faith in the PF in Kaoma.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Malama: Madam Speaker, this country has a covenant with God. It is a Christian nation. What advice does Her Honour the Vice-President have for those political parties or organisations that are linked to the Africa Liberal Network, …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Malama: … which is known to actively promote the rights of gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgender people, as it is doing in our neighbouring countries?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, churches, civil society organisations and the people of this country, including the Constitution of this country, have rejected gayism and lesbianism and all these ‘isms’ that are contrary to our Constitution. As far as this Government and the Patriotic Front (PF) is concerned, we stand with the wishes of the people.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate the United Party for National Development (UPND) for winning in Kaoma and reclaiming the seat in Mangango which the PF won recently. We have got the seat back.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Lubezhi: Madam Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President has just informed us that the money which was pledged for city market –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my right!

 

Ms Lubezhi: She has just informed us that about K1.7 million was pledged and raised for City Market. Yet, last week, the hon. Minister of Local Government on the Floor of this House told us that no money was raised. Is she telling us that hon. Minister of Local Government misled the House?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this propensity to mislead people will not help us. I think it is time we started putting the truth on the table. I am sure the hon. Minister of Local Government could have mentioned that the marketeers selling inside the market were not supported financially. Nevertheless, the money raised for City Market was used to build the Simon Mwewa Lane Market. This was a temporal measure for the marketeers who were trading in City Market so that they could find another trading place before City Market is rebuilt. This is the status. If the hon. Member would like to have the figures showing the way the money that was raised for the market was spent, she is free to ask the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). The Ministry of Local Government could also provide this information. However, she should not insinuate that the money raised has gone into people’s pockets. That is far from it. The building of that market is collaboration between the Ministry of Local Government, the DMMU and the Ministry of Defence, who are the contractors. The Government is spending more than K1.7 million on Simon Mwewa Lane Market.

 

Madam Speaker, I regret that some people have to give false information when it is not necessary.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

_______

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

KALABO/ SIKONGO ROAD CONSTRUCTION

 

 

32.  Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

 

1. why the construction of the Kalabo/Sikongo Road has stalled;
2. when the project will resume;
3. who the contractor for the project is; and
4. what the timeframe for the completion of the project is.

 

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Mwale): Madam Speaker, the construction of the Kalabo/Sikongo Road has stalled due to delayed payments for the work done which resulted in the contractor terminating the contract. This was on 19^th August, 2019.

 

Madam, the construction work will resume once a new contractor has been engaged. The Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), is currently in talks with financiers for the project with the view to engage a new contractor.

 

Madam Speaker, the contract was a joint venture between Messrs Stefanutti Stocks Zambia and Consolidated Contractors Company of Kuwait.

 

Madam, the time frame for the completion of work is twenty-four months from the date of commencement.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, no wonder the people of Kaoma have rejected these people –

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.­

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a point of order on Her Honour the Vice-President. I am aware that points of order are supposed to be raised contemporaneously. However, the issue is that you have also advised us that we cannot raise a point of order on Her Honour the Vice-President when she is answering a question.

 

Madam Speaker, is Her Honor the Vice- President in order to castigate us that we have the propensity of raising falsehoods on the Floor of the House, when in actual fact, the Hansard shows that the hon. Minister of Local Government said on the Floor of this House that there was no money raised towards the construction of City Market because the people who had promised to give money did not honour their obligations? Is she in order to insinuate and tell us that we have a propensity for falsehood when the Hansard is very clear on what the Minister of Local Government said on the Floor of this House?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Leader of the Opposition is a very serious member of the House and he has acknowledged that it is a practice of the House that an hon. Member cannot raise a point of order on the Vice-President. It is settled. If there are indeed issues, there are avenues that can be used to put issues to rest or to have the correct position on a matter such as this one.

 

In this regard, since the hon. Leader of the Opposition seems to indicate that the response given by Her Honour the Vice-President is in conflict with what the hon. Minister of Local Government indicated on the Floor the House, he is free to file a question for urgent answer so that he can follow up with questions for the hon. Minister of Local Government to respond to. In terms of procedure, the hon. Leader of the Opposition is aware that hon. Members cannot raise points of order when Her Honour the Vice-President is on her feet.

 

The hon. Member for Sikongo may continue.

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity again.

 

Madam, I was just saying that is why I thank the people of Kaoma for rejecting the PF.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, the ministry engaged a contractor, telling us that the Government has money to pay the contractor. Why did the Government fail to pay the contractor and where did the Government take the money it was supposed to pay the contractor to enable works on the road to continue?

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, indeed, there is money and there was money for the project, except that there were delays in releasing the same money. So, the contractor was not comfortable to continue with the project and that is how the contractor pulled out. Like we have said, we have engaged the financiers to see to it that we get another contractor and proceed with the contract. So, the outstanding monies will be paid and the remaining works will also be completed.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the road is of economic value.

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, yes, it is because the road connects Zambia to Angola. We would like to encourage trade between the two countries.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kundoti (Luena): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned to the House that the contractor who was awarded the contract to work on the Sikongo Road was not paid and hence the termination of the contract. Further, the hon. Minister said that the ministry will engage a new contractor who will continue with the works. How sure are we that the new contractor will actually be paid on time to enable the contractor complete the remaining works? I would also like to know when the new contractor will be engaged.

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, there were technical issues that led to delayed payment. The contract is being supported by our partners, such as, the Kuwait Fund, Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) and Arab Bank for Economic Development in Africa (BADEA). So, it is a well resourced project and money is there. There were just some technical issues which led to us delaying the payment. Therefore, when we get a new contractor, we will make sure that everything is well sorted and put in place to ensure so that we do not repeat the problem which occurred with the pervious contractor.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to come out very clearly because most contractors in the country are not proceeding with the works because the Government is broke and that there is no money. Could the hon. Minister confirm that special money has been reserved somewhere in the account specifically for the Kalabo/Sikongo Road? Could the hon. Minister confirm that?

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, in most cases, contracts that are financed by co-operating partners have the money. When the Interim Payment Certificate (IPC) is raised, it is passed to them and thereafter, they will send the money for the project. So, in this particular case, the money is not being kept by us. However, once the IPC is processed and so on and so forth, the financiers or partners will then release the money to pay the contractor. That is how simple it is.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, it is disheartening. I would like the hon. Minister to come out clearly on whether the issue of the Kalabo/Sikongo Road is the fault of the financier or failure by the Government to honour its contribution. Which is which? Can the hon. Minister come out clearly.

 

 Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, I have given a response which is a true reflection of what happened. The Government has its own component of 40 per cent towards the project. The obligation of the Government is to pay 40 per cent of the total amount while the 60 per cent comes from our financiers or external co-operating partners. Further, the challenge was not that the Government did not raise its portion. The challenge had to do with the paper work because there was an issue of some claims which were sent to the external financiers using photocopies. So, there were just some technical issues concerning paper work issues –

 

Mr Miyutu interjected.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, please take your seat. Hon. Member for Kalabo Central, you have asked a question and the hon. Minister is responding. You have to give him the opportunity to do so.

 

Mr Miyutu: He is not telling the truth.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Well, since he is the hon. Minister who processes the payments, you just have to believe that what he is communicating is the correct position. Has the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development concluded?

 

Mr Mwale indicated descent.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can you continue.

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, the reason the contractor was not paid on time and in the process pulled out was because there were technical issues that were not resolved that led to the delayed payment from our external partners. Further, the partners can attest and agree to what I am saying. In addition, we have sat down together and we have consulted them if we could get a new contractor so that we can put all the paper work and money in place and proceed with the project. So, this is the status regarding this contract.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is telling us that money to pay the contractor was there. However, there were technical issues to do with paper work. Surely, I would like to know how paper work could cause the contract to be terminated. What technical issues were on those papers? Can he tell us the technical issues which were there?

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development able to give more detail?

 

Mr Mwale indicated ascent.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You may do so.

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, it is possible to have technical issues with paper work. I know that the hon. Member of Parliament who has asked this question was once an hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Works and Supply. I suppose he understands very well that actually, paper work can even cause contracts to be terminated. Financiers can also pull out on some misunderstanding based on paper work. Now, what about just delaying the project? These are issues to do with financiers. In fact, apart from three financiers who are involved in this project, the Government is also involved.

 

 Madam Speaker, this is what happened and this is what led to the delays because there were some technical problems or issues to do with paper work, which made the financiers not to release the money on time and frustrated the contractor and thereafter, the contractor pulled out. Further, the Government and the financiers are in talks to make sure that another contractor is engaged to continue with the project. This is the correct information which the hon. Member will find wherever he goes. If he so wishes, he can go to the external financiers or the Road Development Agency (RDA), but he will still be told the same status.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, what are the technical issues?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: If you are not able to provide that response, perhaps, you can come back to the House.

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, I did not prepare to provide technical details because it was not part of the initial question. However, I can still provide the information for the hon. Member.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Very well! The hon. Minister undertakes to provide more information on this matter.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, do you still want to pose questions.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

 

 Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Madam Speaker, since it is the contractor who terminated the contract, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the contractor has claimed any damages following the termination of the contract.

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, the contractor will only claim what is due to them depending on the works they did and not any other damages.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Madam Speaker, will it be possible for the hon. Minister to provide information for other related projects in a similar context for hon. Members of Parliament who have similar roads to assimilate?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The question on the Order Paper deals with the Kalabo/Sikongo Road and it is very specific.

 

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Madam Speaker, the contractor had mobilised and I am sure there is a fee paid for mobilisation. How much money was paid to the contractor for mobilising, but doing nothing?

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, the contractor mobilised and did some work up to about 18 per cent and was paid for mobilisation and the work done up to 18 per cent.

 

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will allow questions from the hon. Members for the following constituencies: Keembe, Nalikwanda, Chimwemwe and Zambezi East.

 

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister did state that the Kalabo/Sikongo Road has economic value. However, can the hon. Minister give us a time frame when this road will be completed, so that the country can benefit and it can contribute to the nation’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP)?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister answered that question in part (d) of the main question.

 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Madam Speaker, let me begin by congratulating the presiding officers on the bench for being very gender balanced. This morning the House has only 25 per cent male and 75 per cent female and the Leader of Government Business in the House is female. I think we should celebrate these things. We should be able to celebrate and acknowledge.

 

Madam Speaker, the Sikongo/Kalabo Road is very important because it is part of the national transport corridors, such as the Beira, Windhoek/Lubumbashi and Dar-es-Salaam through the northern part of Zambia and now we have the western transport corridor, which will come as a result of the completion of the Kalabo/Sikongo Road. This is a very important transport corridor which will open this country to the trade connection with Angola. The Angolan Government has been waiting for this. Can the hon. Minister shed more light on some of the strategic moves the ministry is taking to ensure that this important transport corridor is expeditiously undertaken and completed within twenty-four months.

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, as earlier guided to provide an answer for the previous question, it is actually twenty-four months after commencement of this project that we would see it through to the end.

 

Madam Speaker, regarding the question by the hon. Member for Nalikwanda, the Government does recognise the importance of this road. It took the President of Angola and His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Lungu, to get together and discus that the road is actually needed. That is why the Government went ahead and found financiers from the middle east, which included the Saudis, Kuwaitis, BADEA and OPEC and mobilised them to provide financing for this road because we do recognise the importance of this road. This road opens the country’s trade routes all the way to Angola and we want people of the North-Western Province and the rest of the country to benefit from this transport corridor.

 

Madam Speaker, the next strategic step is to get another contractor and make sure that the finances are readily available and proceed with this contract. The Government cannot wait to have this road completed. Therefore, it will put its efforts and energy together to ensure that it is done. The contractor has pulled out, but the Government will get to the next contractor and ensure that the contract proceeds.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker. 

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, recently there was a statement from the Government to the effect that some roads will be downgraded from bituminous to gravel on account of the Government’s strained cash position. Is the Kalabo/Sikongo Road among the roads that the Government may consider downgrading from bituminous to gravel?

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, the Government has not made a decision on whether or not this road could be one of those that it can down scale. However, the Government knows that this is a very important road. This can be likened to the roads that lead to Tanzania through Nakonde, the Livingstone Road that leads to Zimbabwe and Great East Road that leads to Malawi. This could be one of those that the Government could maintain at bituminous level, especially that, it is supported by external financiers. This, we might want to maintain but the Government has not yet made a decision to down scale this road.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, there seems to be a problem between correlating existing projects, planning for them and the actual disbursement of the funds from the national Treasury. As custodians of these infrastructure projects, does the ministry have any systems in place that help to work smart as opposed to working hard only, so that a record of well documented projects which the Treasury will be aware of in terms of how they will finance and fund them? If the contract is terminated by the contractor, there is a cost on our part as Zambians. So, is there a system in place whereby the Government takes track of these contracts which it has signed to ensure that the Treasury releases money as and when it is supposed to be released?

 

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, there is an impeccable Information and Communication Technology (ICT) system that deals with these matters. In fact, I want us to appreciate the efforts that are being made by the Smart Zambia Institute in ensuring that the entire Government is well connected. There is proper record keeping and that is a smart way of working in the Government. This is not really a problem of keeping records and proper co-ordination.

 

Madam, projects are stalled because of lack of money. We have said time and again in this House that as the Patriotic Front (PF) Government tried hard to make sure that we open up the country, we were overambitious. We really wanted to make sure that people were getting equal opportunities and that the country was developing, but we opened up too many projects that we could not cope with financially. So, that is the problem and it is not an issue of record keeping.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, the contractor was telling us that it was the Government which failed to pay –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Sikongo, do not point at the hon. Minister. Keep the finger to yourself.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, it is the Government which failed to pay the 40 per cent and that is why the contractor demobilised from the site. What is the hon. Minister’s comment on that?

 

 Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, I have already stated the Government’s position on this matter. I wonder why the hon. Member finds it hard to believe what I said. I do not know whatever meeting the hon. Member had with the contractor and what he discussed with him. What I have told the hon. Member on the Floor of this dignified House is the correct position. The Government has so much respect for this House, it would not come here to give an incorrect position and therefore, what I have said should be believed.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

_______

 

MOTIONS

 

Budget 2020

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mr Mubika (Shang’ombo): Madam Speaker, before adjournment yesterday, I was about to thank the hon. Minister of Finance for maintaining the Value Added Tax (VAT) and not introducing the Sales Tax. I was privileged to be in the Committee which received submissions from people over the tax regime change. About 90 per cent of Zambians opposed the intention to introduce the Sales Tax. It is only Mr Lubinda Habazoka and the Economic Association of Zambia (EAZ) who supported it. Congratulations to the hon. Minister of Finance for maintaining VAT.

 

Madam Speaker, when the President came to officially open Parliament, I heard him clearly say that we can do more with less. In my own opinion, that statement is a warning to those in the Executive that no more “ubomba mwibala alya mwibala”.

 

Madam Speaker, you will recall that during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, I used to sit on your right as an hon. Minister. There was kuna kuzingwa bench on your right.

 

Ms Kapata: Ni mbili ya kudala iyo.

 

Mr Ngulube: Ubulimi bwakale!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

What does kuna kuzingwa mean?

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, it is difficult for me to explain it. It was a bench in the corner on your right where all those from the Frontbench who were sacked could go and sit. 

 

Ms Kapata: It is ok.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mubika: So, that is a humble warning from the President that, please, we should use the little resources we have prudently.

 

Madam Speaker, I will restrict my debate to my constituency, Shang’ombo, which is the poorest in Zambia. In fact, because of Shang’ombo, Zambia is ranked the 5^th hungriest nation on earth. Yes, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is doing a lot, …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika: … but in my own analysis, it is not concentrating on the areas in need. The PF Government is doing a lot in urban areas. We are driving on nice roads in Lusaka and the Copperbelt. The Government is damaging good roads and then rebuilding them. When are the people of Shang’ombo going to see good roads? Look at the road that goes to Shang’ombo. I can challenge the Government on that score. I appeal to the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development to listen to me. The Sioma/Shang’ombo Road is the worst in this country. The hon. Minister in the Office of the Vice-President went to the Western Province but she made a U-turn in Sioma where the tarmac ends. She should have driven for even 10 km from Sioma to Shang’ombo to see for herself the hardship that the people in Shang’ombo are facing. The Government can send officers to go and check the condition of that road right now. Trucks hired to travel from Lusaka to Shang’ombo to transport things are offloading them on the way because they are getting stuck. They leave the people with their goods on the way. I am not politicking, it is true. As I speak, about five groups of people have been dumped by truckers from Lusaka because the truckers have failed to reach Shang’ombo. About two months ago –

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to rise on a very serious point of order on the hon. Member for Shang’ombo.

 

Madam, it is on record that the hon. Member for Shang’ombo told this nation that five people in his constituency died of hunger, when in fact not. Is the hon. Member in order to continue debating as if there was no misleading statement from him? He must apologise to the people of Zambia.

 

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: The allegation that five people died of hunger was very serious. If he does not apologise, people will believe that there are people dying of hunger when in fact, this working Government is busy distributing food even in his constituency.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

What is the point of order?

 

Mr Ngulube: Is he in order to continue debating without rendering an apology to the nation and to this House on the misstatement that five people from his constituency died of hunger when in fact not?

 

Ms Siliya: He has to prove it!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The way to challenge the hon. Member for Shang’ombo, if he indeed misled the House, is to bring information to the House and use it to debate. In the absence of that, the Chair cannot bar the hon. Member for Shang’ombo from debating. He enjoys the freedom to debate. If the hon. Deputy Chief Whip believes that the hon. Member for Shang’ombo misled the House at one point or the other, he is free to bring factual information to the House for the benefit of not just the House but the public out there. As for now, the hon. Member for Shang’ombo is in order to debate as he is doing.

 

The hon. Member for Shang’ombo may continue debating.

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for that wise counsel. I still stand by that statement which was referred to in the point of order. In February, 2019, a family of six people died after eating poisonous wild fruit in Shang’ombo. Even now, there are people dying of hunger. That is the mistake the hon. Members on your right usually make. I am talking to the Government, not talking at the Government. I mean well. It is unfortunate that people who do not have relatives in Shang’ombo are downplaying what I am saying. The hunger situation is very bad. Therefore, I am appealing to the Government to come to the aid of the people of Shang’ombo.

 

Madam, the Government has repeatedly said that there is enough food to feed the nation. When the President came to this House, he said that even the military was going to be used in the distribution of relief food. I am expecting that to happen because at the moment, it is really difficult to distribute relief food. Whatever relief food the Government is taking to the people of Shang’ombo is not reaching them because of the state of the roads. Most of the people benefiting from the relief food are those with oxcarts in the business of transporting the mealie meal.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government is distributing a 12.5 kg bag of mealie meal per household. There are about 447 households starving in Shang’ombo. How does the Government expect a 12.5 kg bag of mealie meal to feed a family of 18 people for a month? It is not possible. The Government should not downplay the hunger situation in Shang’ombo – it is serious. No wonder the country is regarded as the 5^th hungriest nation on earth. People are starving in Nalolo, Sioma and Sikongo. I mean well when I bring these matters to the attention of the Government. It is a pity that the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) National Co-ordinator went to Shang’ombo yesterday by air, instead of driving on the Sioma/Shang’ombo Road. Had he done that, he would have given a comprehensive report to the Government so that it reacts.

 

I know that this Government has the capacity to address this issue. It just needs political will. This Government has asked us on the left to work with it. I am, therefore, appealing to it to come to the aid of the people of Shang’ombo. The road to Shang’ombo from Sioma is the worst road in this country, and I will maintain that statement.

 

Madam Speaker, when we on the left advise the Executive on what is happening on the ground, they should believe us because the reports they get from some technocrats are not correct. For example, the former hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development brought a list of roads which were completed. There is a stretch of about 44 km which was supposed to be constructed from Shang’ombo to Sipuma, but only a 20 km stretch of the road was worked on. The report is there in black and white that the construction of that road was completed. That is the record the Government has and believed. The Zambia National Service (ZNS) was contracted to work on that road but only worked on a 21 km stretch of the 44 km. If people think that this is a misleading statement, they can make their own follow up.

 

Madam Speaker, on a light note, I would ask that the sitting arrangement of the Executive be changed. Actually, the hon. Minister of Defence should be the one on the ground to check on the ZNS when it is contracted to work on roads so that he can come and report to the House. He is too comfortable sitting next to the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting.  

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mubika: That is on a light note.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: He is entitled to sit comfortably. What is important is that he is listening to you attentively. You may continue with your debate.

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I know how he is feeling because I used to sit next to the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting when I was in the Ministry of Transport and Communication.

 

Madam Speaker, on the road network, I am appealing to the Government to be a game changer by doing more with less using the Budget. I urge the hon. Minister of Finance to consider putting a special fund for Shang’ombo. It really saddens me to be standing here as the hon. Member of Parliament for the least developed district or constituency in this country out of the 116 districts. From this moment, I will stop eating from our restaurant here to protest because my people are suffering. I will not do that until I see a difference. I will only be drinking water here.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mubika: There is no way I can be enjoying here when my people are suffering.

 

Mr Ngulube: After mwakuta yama.

 

Hon. Government Members: Even at the lodge?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I am appealing to the Government to also consider the issue of the school feeding programme. Shang’ombo is the worst hit district with regards to climate change. Pupils have stopped going to school because they have nothing to feed on. Please, I am appealing to the Ministry of General Education to continue with the good work of feeding the pupils so that they can have a better future.

 

Madam Speaker, let me also talk about the Social Cash Transfer. Some people on your right have been saying that people are getting the payments from the Social Cash Transfer programme. However, the people of Shang’ombo only received the payment in May this year, and this payment was an arrear from 2018. So, I can say that they got nothing from January. Since this is the worst time for the people of Shang’ombo. The Social Cash Transfer payments could have been helping the beneficiaries of this fund. So, I am urging the Government to apologise to our co-operating partners if at all it did something wrong so that our people can start receiving payments from this programme. It should do that for the sake of the people who are not getting the payments from the Social Cash Transfer. Who is going to take care of the elderly and orphans? It is the Government that should do that. The Government is the parent of those ordinary old people who are suffering now.

 

Madam Speaker, I also want this Government to come to the aid of the Ministry of General Education District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) office in Shang’ombo. Currently, that office has no transport. The only vehicle which it has is on stones now. This vehicle was bought when the late President Mwanawasa was in office in 2008. Does this Government expect a vehicle to survive the terrain of Shang’ombo for over twelve years? No! There are so many vehicles in Lusaka. The Government should come to the aid of the people of Shang’ombo by providing transport for the Ministry of General Education. That way, the people in that office will be able to monitor teachers and see how education is being delivered.

 

Madam Speaker, on the Local Government Equalisation Fund –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Shang’ombo, I am waiting for you to get to the Motion. We are debating the Budget Address. Relate those issues in your constituency to the Budget Address.

 

You may continue with your debate, Hon. Member.

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

 

Madam, I wish to bring to the attention of the Government that we have no industries in Shang’ombo and the Western Province as a whole. So, with the little resources that the Government has, it should spare some for us so that the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation Limited (ZAFFICO) can also come and have a plantation in Shang’ombo. I know that ZAFFICO is capable of doing that. In order to alleviate the effects of climate change, we need to plant trees in that area. I am urging the Government to consider sparing some funds for that activity. Shang’ombo is the worst hit district in terms of climate change.

 

Madam Speaker, let me acknowledge what the Government has done so far. At the moment, through co-operating partners such as the African Development Bank (AfDB), it is sinking boreholes and our people have started getting clean water as I speak. However, due to climate change, this Government should spare funds for putting up dams so that our people, wild and domestic animals can have access to clean water, especially during this time when there no water due to climate change.

 

Madam Speaker, I also want to thank the Government because there is improvement in terms of communication in Shang’ombo. Five communication towers are being erected in Shang’ombo. On that one, I am saying, “thank you” on behalf of the people of Shang’ombo.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika: I am encouraging this Government to spare at least four more communication towers so that we can have 90 per cent to 99 per cent coverage. As for the five communication towers that are being constructed now, I am saying “thank you” on behalf of the people of Shang’ombo.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, even if I have talked about the water which is being provided, I still encourage the Government consider constructing dams for our people.

 

Madam, with regard to the list of feeder roads to be constructed, which was released by the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development, Shang’ombo is not included. I realise that all the districts except Shang’ombo have been given a list of roads that will be worked on. If that was a mistake, before it is too late, it should be corrected so we the people of Shang’ombo can also have a share of the good programme of construction of feeder roads. Please, I beg the Government to do that on behalf of the people of Shang’ombo.

 

Madam, I will end by urging the Government to consider we the people on the left as its partners. We are here because we serve the same people.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear1

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I will refer to history. I used to be an hon. Minister. That time, the current Republican President – I wish Hon. Lusambo was here because he would have said “Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces”, was a United Party for National Development (UPND) member in Chawama. The current Republican Vice-President used to sit here as a UPND hon. Member of Parliament.

 

Ms Siliya: Yes, she was.

 

Mr Mubika:  Madam Speaker, I know that the current Republican Vice-President used to sit here on the left.  

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mubika: Yes! I was an hon. Minister on the right. The current Republican Vice-President was a UPND hon. Member of Parliament. So, political parties are just organisations. At the end of the day, we are one.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I was an hon. Minister under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. Whenever the Patriotic Front (PF) and UPND hon. Members would tell us from the MMD that we would be going out of office, I used to answer that they were just bitter. I used to answer that they were just bitter, with the late Hon. Mike Mulongoti. The Republican Vice-President then, now the former President, Rupiah Banda, would tell me to say, “mwana wanga, bauze ba mambala baja nakuipa pa menso, tiza ba ruling’a. We used to say those words.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What does that mean?

 

Mr Mubika: It means “Tell those ugly PF and UPND hon. Members that we will rule them for fifty years.”

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mubika: We used to say that especially to the PF, but things changed. Ten months down the line, we were kicked out. Some of my colleagues in the MMD are now there on the right. Others are here on the left. We are one. So, please, can we preach peace to our cadres so that we live as one. What happened in Kaoma is sad where a cadre shot a fellow cadre. Why should cadres shot each other? A cadre who is being buried today has left four children. Why should we go to that extent?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

 

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was just about to bring to the attention of the hon. Minister of Finance the issue of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I appeal to the Government to release the CDF for 2019.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika: He may be are aware that this is money that goes to every constituency in the country. We understand that when picking projects, the Government cannot manage to cater for the whole country in a year. However, the hon. Minister must spare some money for the CDF. All the constituencies and districts in the country benefit from this fund because it goes directly to them.

 

Mr Speaker, as we move forward, I would like to say that we are all one. Some of us were once in the Government and are now in the Opposition. Come 2021, the United Party for National Development (UPND) might be the one in the Government and some of our hon. Colleagues on that side may be part of it.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Question!

 

Mr Mubika: So, let us work together as we move forward, especially the good friend of mine who is saying ‘Question’. He and I relate very well. So, I urge the Government to ensure that we work together. This is timely advice. There is no need to point fingers at each other. At the end of the day, we represent the same people who give us this rare opportunity to come to this august House. For example, this is my third time in the House. Therefore, I want to thank the people of Shang’ombo for giving me the opportunity to be here.

 

Mr Speaker, on the hunger situation, I appeal to the Vice-President to come to the aid of the people of Shang’ombo so that we save lives.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Mr Speaker …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: Wapya baisa.

 

Mr Mundubile: … I thank you for this opportunity to add my voice to the debate that is on the Floor of the House. Let me start by congratulating the hon. Minister of Finance for his elaborate presentation of the 2020 Budget. The 2020 Budget is clearly balanced and responsive to the challenges that the country faces today.

 

Mr Speaker, in my debate today, I will make reference to the Patriotic Front (PF) Manifesto, the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP) and, indeed, the alternative budget that was launched by the United Party for National Development (UPND). I will demonstrate that, indeed, the 2020 Budget presented by the hon. Minister of Finance is superior in every way to the alternative budget.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, let me start by mentioning that it is common cause that the Zambian economy is going through a turbulent phase on account of a number of issues discussed on the Floor of this House, including global economic development, trade between the United States of America (USA) and China, prolonged uncertainty of the Brexit issue and geo-political tensions. There is also the decline in copper output due to low grades of ore, low copper prices, among others, the tight liquidity conditions attributed to external debt servicing and, of course, the effects of climate change.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance took cognisance of all these factors when he prepared the 2020 Budget. So, clearly, when you are in a turbulent situation, your primary aim is to stabilise the situation and this is what the hon. Minister of Finance has done. In his Budget, he made sure that the mines remained stable, the manufacturers, service providers and consumers, among others, continued with their businesses by maintaining the Value Added Tax (VAT). So, he clearly did not come up with any drastic measures because he first needed to stabilise the economy.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance in his Budget Address talked about the stimulation of the local economy, which we all know is cardinal. He pointed out measures of trying to put liquidity back in the economy by dismantling domestic debt, which is money owed to suppliers, retirees and contractors. He was also prudent in his provisions when he stated that he was slowing down on debt contraction.

 

So, Mr Speaker, these measured interventions by the hon. Minister of Finance will clearly help the country to weather the storm. I say well done to the hon. Minister of Finance because he delivered a very good Budget and we are very proud of him.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, allow me to give a bit of background on how these Budgets are crafted. First of all, political parties are voted into power based on party manifestos. This is a document where political parties spell out what they want to do for the people.

 

Mr Speaker, if I may take you back, in 2011 when the Patriotic Front (PF) came to power, the Sixth National Development Plan (6NDP) was under implementation. Immediately the PF assumed power, it revised the 6NDP. This was to realign it to the party manifesto so that delivery of development was aligned.

Sir, our party manifesto was further revised to the 2016/2021 period, which is the party manifesto we are using today. This party manifesto is aligned to the 7NDP. When you look at the goal of the 7NDP, it speaks to the creation of a resilient and diversified economy for sustained growth and social economic development driven by mining, agriculture and manufacturing, among others. When you look at the PF Manifesto, you will clearly see that it is aligned to the 7NDP.

 

Mr Speaker, these are anchored documents. When the hon. Minister of Finance is preparing his Budget, he has recourse to these documents because, firstly, in terms of priority, I heard from my dear brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mongu Central, talking emotionally about priorities, the question is: Who sets these priorities? These priorities are set by the Zambian people. The very fact that the Zambian people chose the PF Manifesto by voting for the PF clearly pointed out what their priorities are.

 

So, Mr Speaker, in terms of priorities, I want to put it very clearly that it is the priorities that are set by the Zambian people. We as a party or Government in power cannot go after other people’s priorities, but the Zambian people’s priorities guided by our party manifesto. When you look at the PF Manifesto, it speaks to pro-poor policies. Many people may not understand what these pro-poor policies are. Allow me a moment to just unpack these pro-poor policies.

 

Mr Speaker, the Governments that existed before were hesitant, for instance, to introduce roads to rural parts of Zambia. The PF Government said that even if the parameters do not favour infrastructure development, we will use the political will and pro-poor policies to develop these roads. That is why today we have the Mansa/Luwingu Road and many other roads. Communication towers have been erected even in places where there are no phones because as a party, we said that we will put up a tower first and the phones will come later.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mundubile: These are pro-poor policies. If you go to Chilubi, for instance, there is a state-of-the-art hospital because previously, looking at the area, you would just build any hospital because it is in Chilubi, which is a rural area, but going by the pro-poor policies of the PF, we have put up a state-of-the- art infrastructure. When you talk about power, we have taken power to all parts of Zambia.

 

Mr Kangombe: Aah! Which all parts?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, this is the reason we are having a challenge with some of these alternative budgets because they are not anchored on anything. The question is: If the hon. Members on the left came up with an alternative budget, what is it anchored on? We ask because we have had no recourse to their party manifesto. What does their party manifesto talk about?

 

Mr Kafwaya: It is anchored on zero!

 

Mr Mundubile: When you come up with a ten point plan, you clearly cannot come up with a good budget. So, quite frankly, I want to firstly congratulate the hon. Member for Monze Central, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, for his courage to refer to their alternative budget. He is the only one who has courage to refer to that budget. The question is: Why? The reason hon. Members on the right side of the House have been able to speak to the Budget by the hon. Minister of Finance is because we co-own it. The hon. Minister of Finance was very clear to say that it was not his Budget, but it was our Budget. Firstly, Cabinet owned the document and went to our friends in the Backbench to explain to them so that when they came to the House, it was also their Budget. The question is: For a party that is waiting to come into power, did they call their members? Where was their shadow cabinet? Did they sit to adopt that alternative budget?

 

Mr Kafwaya: No!

 

Mr Mundubile: If they did, I will be very disappointed with them.

 

Mr Kafwaya: It is a dictatorship!

Mr Mundubile: I will explain why. We will go into the document and expose it for its inadequacies. If the hon. Members on the left are confirming that they sat as a shadow cabinet to talk about that document, I will be very surprised. Maybe the question will be: If they, indeed, spoke to that document, why have they all avoided referring to it in this House?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, on their part, it has been individual industry.

 

Ms Kapata: They cannot be a Government in waiting.

 

Mr Mundubile: Each one of them speaking to the 2020 Budget without recourse to their own budget.

 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

 

Mr Mundubile: The question is why?

 

Ms Chalikosa: No democracy!

 

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, I have had occasion to mingle with a number of my brothers on the left side of the House and they have got some brilliant minds. I can confirm to you that most of those hon. Members never spoke to this budget. If they did, I would have known.

 

Mr Speaker. the quality of the document that we are talking about in the name of the alternative budget, most of the gentlemen or hon. Members that are seated on the other side never spoke to it. If they did, I would have known.

 

Ms Kapata: What about the ladies?

 

Mr Mundubile: Of course, including the ladies, but I would have known. So, the question is: Who drafted this document?

 

Mr Speaker, this budget reminds me of one thing. If you remember, during the Iraqi War, there was a gentleman called Chemical Ali. This is a gentleman who had built some reputation that once Chemical Ali comes on the scene, he will fix it. He will sort it out and people were waiting. So, one day Chemical Ali came and people were waiting that the Allied Forces will be subdued because Chemical Ali had come. Weeks went by and only to discover that his real name was not Chemical Ali, but Comical Ali because he was just full of jokes.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mundubile: He was not as serious as people thought. So, in this country, we have people who have been talking about being economic managers. I can see a repeat of Comical Ali in some of these documents.

 

 Mr Speaker, some people have been saying that they will come and fix it.

 

Ms Chalikosa: Chizungu!

 

Mr Mundubile: If for sure people call themselves economic managers, they cannot produce a document of this calibre (waving a document in the air). I will expose this document for what it is.

 

Mr Speaker, what we are saying is that when we were young and growing up, we would go to a discotheque. There were people who always danced from their tables just by moving shoulders giving an impression that they were good dancers. They earned the reputation that they were good dancers. A day came when there was a very good song called Dununa reverse and they stood to try and dance, it was only then that people realised that they could not co-ordinate their shoulders, hands and legs. They were but just bad dancers. That is what we are seeing here. Without this document, people would not have known the UPND for what it is. Zambians today know who these economic or comical managers are.

 

Ms Chalikosa: Comic managers.

 

Mr Mundubile: Quite frankly, the biggest disaster in the history of the UPND is to have produced this alternative budget. Surprisingly, their budget says that raising of funds for poverty reduction will be based on selling the Presidential Jet. In this day and age!

 

Prof. Luo: Really?

 

Mr Mundubile: They said for poverty reduction, they are going to sell the Presidential Jet. What kind of individuals are these that never get tired of privatising anything that they find on their way?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mundubile: I thought we had learnt our lessons …

 

Mr Sichone: Hammer, hammer!

 

Mr Mundubile: … in terms of privatisation.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mundubile: You privatised and sold everything along the way and you are still eyeing other public properties. I would like to tell the hon. Colleagues on the left that the plane is not for sale. You will have no opportunity to sell that plane because you will never occupy that seat.

 

Mr Speaker, how can a party that says it is in waiting and wants to take over power in the next two years only have a plan to sell a plane for poverty reduction? Where are the brilliant ideas?

Hon. Government Members: Shame, shame!

 

Mr Mundubile: Why not diversify the agricultural sector or reform the tourism sector and all these sectors?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

 

Mr Mundubile: So, quite frankly, the aim is that we have seen a lot of movement between Zambia and other countries and our hon. Colleagues are busy marketing planes and the airports that the PF has bought and built. However, the bad news to their buyers or potential buyers is that the plane is not on sale. Airports are not on sale because they are not going to come to power. The Zambian people now know that they are not economic managers like they initially made us believe otherwise it would have reflected in their document. 

 

Sir, the hon. Leader of the Opposition came on the Floor of the House saying that his party would reduce taxes once in power but these are just numbers in a vacuum. What are they related to? Hon. Dr Bwalya Ng’andu’s Budget was about K106 billion. What is the value assigned to the alternative budget? There is no value, meaning that the party can toss numbers as it wishes.

 

Mr Speaker, it could even reduce the Value Added Tax (VAT) to 2 per cent. That does not mean anything. The Leader of the Opposition said that his Government would reduce VAT to 14 per cent, why was it not reduced to 2 per cent? There is no comparison because it has no impact on any number. This means that it is just a number that can be proposed in a vacuum. What the Government expected to see from the hon. Members on the left are estimates of revenue and expenditure, and then we will begin to follow. For instance, if a particular tax is adjusted downwards, the impact would be seen in what is proposed. Now, because this is an incomplete document – 

 

Mr Lubinda: Ni comedy.

 

Mr Mundubile: It is pure comedy, thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mundubile: Most of us will not be in Parliament then, but we will not allow this country to be led by comics. We will not allow a group of men and women, liberals –

 

Mrs Chinyama: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Prof. Luo: Sit down!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: That point of order will not be allowed for now.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mundubile: Paipa apa.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I am also listening and following the debate. In any case, it must be noted that points of order on hon. Ministers are discouraged when they are responding.

 

Mr Mundubile: The biggest mistake the United Party for National Development (UPND) made was to produce this alternative budget.  It is like the example I gave earlier of a person who was thought to be a good dancer but he never danced at all. We thought a person was Chemical Ali before he came on the scene, but quite frankly, we now see what they are all about.

 

Sir, the hon. Leader of the Opposition talked about reduction of taxes. Statistics show that 80 per cent of employment in Zambia is in the informal sector. When you look at the alternative budget, you will see that that it is proposing to tax even poor women who are breaking stones.

 

Hon Government Members: Ah!

 

Mr Mundubile: Every kaponya on the street will be taxed. 

 

   Sir, the alternative budget by the hon. Members on the left shows that it will reduce taxes on the 20 per cent employed in the formal sector and the 80 per cent employed in the informal sector including those who wash vehicles.

 

Prof. Luo: Shame!

 

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, I want to put it to the House that it is not that the Government does not know about those women who are breaking stones or the people washing vehicles. The Government is not taxing them because it about pro-poor policies. It would be indecent and immoral to tax them. That is why the Government has deliberately left them out of being taxed because of the meagre resources they earn out of that effort. The UPND has given us an impression that it is going to reduce taxes, but that is a hoax.

 

Sir, honestly speaking, how can people believe that it will turn the economy around by reducing the number of Cabinet Ministers from thirty to eighteen? What are the differentials? Has any empirical study been done to show that, for instance, when the number of Cabinet hon. Ministers is reduced by twelve, a certain amount of money will be saved? Has a study also been conducted to show the impact such a move would have on service delivery?

 

Mr Speaker, running a country is serious business. The UPND has to be serious about running this country instead of producing the kind of comedy in the alternative. Zambians should take time to get copies of this alternative budget and see the UPND for what it is. The UPND hon. Members may have been dancing on the table for too long and spreading rumours on being “Chemical Ali” for too long, but they are just comics. From now on, I will not take it lightly when somebody says he is an economic manager, not with this document. Can we agree in this House that nobody will call him an economic manager for as long as this document continues to exist?

 

Ms Kapata: They should withdraw it.

 

Mr Mundubile: The hon. Members in the UPND should withdraw it and make a different document which they can base their assertions upon. So far, they cannot call themselves economic managers.

 

Mr Speaker, the good news is that they have constructively admitted that the Patriotic Front (PF) is irreplaceable and that the 2020 Budget presented by Hon. Dr Ng’andu is superior. They had all the time to produce an alternative budget, and I was really looking forward to seeing what they would produce. Quite frankly, what they have produced is a substandard document. I am sorry to say that, but I will call it what it is. Zambians must know that if the UPND was ready to take over power, we should have seen some seriousness in its provisions in the alternative budget. We have many dictators around. The PF Government has no dictators because we in the Government all sat at one table and discussed the Budget. Other Governments –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mundubile: Paipa apa.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

May the hon. Chief Whip please resume his seat?

 

Hon. Members, the Chief Whip is remaining with only a minute before his time expires, so allow him to finish. The nature of this House is that when you speak first and then someone else stands to respond, you may think that he is overdoing it.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, please allow the hon. Chief Whip time to debate.

 

Ms Siliya: Chababa.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Chief Whip please continue debating.

 

Mr Mundubile: Mr Speaker, as I wind down, I am saying that we are looking at economic managers who are only good at managing their businesses. I come from a business background, I can call myself an economic manager for my business alone, not for Zambia. Hence, it is very clear that the aim of the economic managers on the left is to sell everything they will find along the way. How can one’s first priority in Government be to sell the presidential jet to raise money for poverty reduction?

 

Hon. Government Members: How!

 

Mr Mundubile: That is an unbelievable.

 

Mr Speaker, I also know that the leader of my colleagues on the left is a dictator. That is why his hon. Members of Parliament were never given an opportunity to look at this alternative budget. If they had looked at it, I would have known it. I know some of them. I sympathise with them, they are going through a very difficult time because of their choice of leader. I am very sorry about that and too bad for them.

 

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Prof. Luo: They are under siege.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mazabuka!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, when you debating and you notice that your there is too much heckling such that your voice is lower than the voices of those who are not permitted to debate, it is better you pause. I believe that when you stand to speak, whatever you speak is more valuable because you are the only person permitted to speak at that particular time.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Pause until the situation calms down. You may continue with your debate after that because you have the right to stand.

 

The Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity you have given me to contribute to the Motion moved by the hon. Minister of Finance, Hon. Dr Bwalya K. E. Ng’andu, MP, on the Estimates or Revenue and Expenditure for the Year 1^st January, 2020 to 31^st December, 2020 delivered to this august House on Friday, 27^th September, 2019.

 

Sir, the Motion moved by the hon. Minister of Finance is visionary and is in tandem with the progressive programmes outlined in the speech by His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu …

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Ms Kapata: Ukafwa na question mark!

 

Ms Kapata: … during the Official Opening of the National Assembly on 13^th September, 2019. The 2020 National Budget seeks to prioritise creating fiscal space, ensuring debt sustainability and dismantling domestic arrears. The Budget pays particular attention to the dismantling of arrears related to pensioners and suppliers of goods and services to the Government.

Mr Speaker, for the country to economically grow and develop, all the sectors of the economy need to function properly. Therefore, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has continued to recognise the various roles each sector of the economy plays in supporting growth and development of this great nation, including land and climate change programmes. My debate will concentrate on two issues, namely: the National Titling Programme and climate change.

 

Sir, the implementation of the National Land Titling Programme (NLTP) will continue to be a priority in 2020. The objective of the NLTP is to regularise ownership of untitled properties in towns and cities and promote security of tenure for property owners on state land. Land is one of the key resources upon which the Government collects non-tax revenue on behalf of the Treasury. This exercise is aimed at giving citizens titled assets for credit extension, enhancing collection of land rates to finance Government activities, establishing an integrated and sustainable land registry on the status of land and its use, protecting vulnerable groups such as women, and resolving challenges among parties involved in disputes.

 

Mr Speaker, my ministry is in the process of going into all the provinces to sort out the main land problems that we have so that we can help people to get their pieces of land which have been encroached on. I am happy to inform this august House that the Ministry of Finance gave consent on payment of an initial fee of K1 for offer letters to be issued and a minimum of 20 per cent of the consideration fees to be paid by the property owners for the certificate of title to be processed under the NLTP. The 80 per cent balance of the consideration fee shall be spread over an agreed period.

 

Mr Speaker, my ministry is making steady progress towards the realisation of the 2019 target. Further, in 2020, my ministry will embark on resource mobilisation to meet its target of issuing 350,000 certificates of title in the targeted demarcation sites in the Central Province, the Copperbelt Province and the Southern Province as well as properties in the resettlement areas.

 

Sir, in order to support the various pronouncements made by the hon. Minister of Finance with regards to the implementation of the NLTP, my ministry is in consultation with the Ministry of Transport and Communication on the amendment of the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act. The amendment will include land transactions and will expedite national titling by allowing electronic registration, digital signatures and batch processing.

 

Mr Speaker, a number of initiatives have been put in place to improve land administration and management. These include review of the policy and legal framework to govern land administration and management.

 

Sir, another issue of great importance and concern –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, just give me a minute. You seem to be debating your ministry. This is not the right time to do so because we are looking at the Motion by the hon. Minister of Finance. The time to dwell on your ministry is coming. Take the general debate angle on the Motion. Further, if you are ready to debate your ministry, you will debate when the time comes for the consideration of your ministry. This is just guidance. Look at that National Budget in general, not your ministry.

 

You may continue hon. Minister.

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I was trying to mention those things because they contribute to the Treasury. I was just trying to emphasise what my ministry is going to do in terms of the contribution to the Treasury.

 

Sir, it is a sadly known fact that there is a political party whose president, “president” with small letter “p,” is politicising climate change issues. It is also sad to note that despite climate change issues affecting many people, my colleagues on the left side of the House want to turn a blind eye to them. However, they are the first people to come to this House and stand on the Floor crying that there is no food in the Southern Province or the Western Province. The reason there is no food is because of the effects of climate change.

 

Mr Speaker, this is one negative impact of climate change.

 

Sir, the party that now belongs to the Africa Liberal Network is trying to bring gayism in Zambia. I am calling upon the Zambian people –

 

Mr Sing’ombe interjected.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:  Order!

 

Hon. Members, we cannot conduct business in this manner. Hon. Member for Dundumwezi, you should not disturb the hon. Member who has been given the Floor. She is responding to what you said concerning the Budget which we are looking at. I would like the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources to debate in a House which is free from heckling. You are allowed to “question!” but it should not be continuously such that you even disturb the one who is debating.

 

We should ask ourselves whether what we are doing in Parliament where we are representing the whole nation is in order. Mind you, we are being watched. I think we can do better. Let us listen to the hon. Minister who is debating. When you stood to debate, you were allowed to debate. How would you have felt is somebody had disturbed you when you were given an opportunity to debate? It is not even healthy to disturb people on the Floor.

 

 You may continue, hon. Minister.

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your protection.

 

Sir, I also want to take this opportunity to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya for coming up with that item to this House because we in the Government did not know what was going on. We did not know that our colleagues on the left had joined the Africa Liberal Network in order to sell Zambia because they want money to get to State House. Zambians should open their eyes and ask themselves whether this is the type of leadership they want.

 

Sir, Zambia is a Christian nation and if we allow the Africa Liberal Network to come with its money, the clause of ‘Christian nation” will be removed, and once it is removed, there will be chaos in the country. Zambia is the only country known as a Christian nation in the world. Therefore, as Zambians, we are not going to stand and see people bring unclean things, which we cannot even talk about because it is a shame for people to start –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker:  Order!

 

Hon. Minister, connect your debate to the Budget Speech we are looking at.

 

Prof. Luo: Shemuna bane!

 

Mr Speaker, they are supposed to give us an alternative to this Budget, but they have not. Hon. Mundubile was from denouncing the budget which they formed. Therefore, the United Party for National Development (UPND) does not mean well. A good example was during the 2016 elections. They are now crying when debating saying there are no roads, dams, bridges, schools and hospitals in their constituencies, but those facilities are there.

 

Sir, they are the people who caused the 2016 referendum to fail. The Bill of Rights that the UPND hon. Members of Parliament are crying for would have been a straight forward issue. The Government was going to account for all these issues to the people. It is very unfortunate that the hon. Members of the UPND could debate in that manner and turn a blind eye to schools, dams, hospitals, clinics and roads that the Government has constructed in their consistencies.

 

Mr Speaker, Zambians cannot be taken for granted. I want to call upon Zambians to open their eyes and scrutinise this particular party, which is not worth mentioning. One of the hon. Members on your left spoke about roads being constructed indicating that the Government is not constructing roads in constituencies for hon. Members on the left, but in places where there are houses for hon. Ministers’ and hon. Members on your right.

 

Mr Speaker, the question I would like to ask is: Is there an hon. Minister who lives alone on a street? There are Zambians who are neighbours to an hon. Minister or hon. Member of Parliament. The development that is happening in Lusaka to construct and rehabilitate 400 km of roads includes some of the roads that hon. Ministers live on. It is not fair for somebody to come here to say that hon. Ministers have made roads up to their door steps. Hon. Ministers are also Zambians and live on those roads with other people who are Zambians.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

 The Minister of Religious Affairs and National Guidance (Rev. Sumaili): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the 2020 Budget that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance, Dr Bwalya Ng’andu. The theme of the Budget Speech is ‘Focusing National Priorities Towards Stimulating The Domestic Economy’.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, I want to join many voices that have congratulated the hon. Minister of Finance for delivering a progressive and courageous Budget. His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, whose message the hon. Minister of Finance faithfully carried to this august House is honest and truthful and this brings hope to our nation. The President has demonstrated humility and care for the people of Zambia.

 

Mr Speaker, when night time comes, day time follows. The challenges we face today as a nation can be resolved and we have hope of recovery and prosperity for our nation. The Budget and policy measures highlighted, among other things, include the Government’s resolve to prioritise creating fiscal space, ensuring debt sustainability and dismantling domestic arrears –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, resume your seat. There is no quorum in the House.

 

Business was suspended from 1145 hours until 1148 hours.

 

Rev. Sumaili: Mr Speaker, we are discussing serious issues of reviving our economy and bringing development to our nation. It is very disappointing that people who have been elected by the people of Zambia to represent them, so that they take care of the issues affecting them, can decide to stay aware from Parliament. They are paid for that and they stood to represent the people, but they choose to deliberately stay out of the House. This is totally unacceptable! The opposition party is supposed to be in governance with the Government of the day. So, this is totally unacceptable.

 

Sir, when our hon. Colleagues were giving their views, we sat here and listened to them. They cannot even humble themselves to listen to what the Government has to say on what they submitted. This is very disappointing and I pray that the people out there can see the kind of leaders who are putting themselves forward to form Government. They cannot!

 

Mrs Simukoko: Besafye mukusaina pa ndalama baya.

 

Rev. Sumaili: Mr Speaker, the Budget and the policy measures highlighted, among other things, to include the Government’s resolve to prioritise creating fiscal space, ensuring debt sustainability and dismantling domestic arrears particularly dismantling of arrears related to pensioners and suppliers of goods and services to the Government. These are commendable steps by the Government. This listening and pro-poor Government has heard the cries of pensioners and retirees and has responded appropriately.

 

These measures will put us on a path of alleviating the hardships faced by ordinary citizens, by preserving businesses, saving jobs, increasing liquidity and, in so doing, will boost our domestic economy.

 

Sir, as the hon. Minister responsible for promoting national values and principles, I wish to commend the hon. Minister of Finance for the following:

 

1. prioritising dismantling arrears to pensioners and suppliers;
2. strengthening social protection programmes;
3. providing initiatives to empower women and youth; and
4. provision and accessibility to health and education services.

 

Mr Speaker, these measures remain priorities by this Government. By prioritising these interventions, the Government is making investments towards enhancing human dignity, social justice, equity, equality and non-discrimination in the development agenda and I commend the hon. Minister of Finance for this.

 

Sir, climate change is a global phenomenon. It is not isolated to Zambia alone. Leaders all over the world are focusing on mitigating climate change. Climate change should neither be trivialised nor politicised. Leaders at all levels and the people of Zambia have to hold hands and together work at finding solutions to climate change.

 

Sir, climate change has had a devastating toll on the lives of many Zambians. Vulnerable members of our society such as the aged, youths, women and persons with disabilities have been greatly affected by the effects of climate change. However, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government under the leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, made a resolve to take a proactive stance in addressing climate change and mitigating its effects. Interventions aimed at promoting conservation agricultural practices, climate smart agricultural methods and reducing carbon emissions, among others, are timely.

 

Mr Speaker, under these circumstances, the need for patriotism and mindset change among all Zambians cannot be overemphasised. We need to begin to appreciate the natural resources God has given us and to look after the environment. One wise man said that even the creation groan waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God. 

 

Mr Speaker, it is the upright and righteous man and woman that take care of the environment. Mindset change demands for information sharing and awareness raising. The development we need as a nation requires patriotic, honest and hardworking citizens. Let us teach our children the virtues of hard work and honesty. I am happy to note that in the 2020 Budget, the hon. Minister of Finance has provided for support to entrepreneurs as a way of empowering our youth and women. Innovation needs to be encouraged for sustainable development. Zambia needs to make deliberate efforts in promoting local products. Incentives need to be given to the producers of local products.

 

Mr Speaker, now that Zambia has invested in infrastructure, which is an attraction to foreign investment and facilitates mobility and accessibility to services and markets, our focus is to turn the engines of production and industrialisation on so as to stimulate the domestic economy.  The loans which Zambia obtained have been put to good use. 

 

Rev. Sumaili: The improved road network …

 

Mrs Simukoko: It is amazing.

 

Rev. Sumaili: …. and construction of bridges in many parts of the country have opened up Zambia and projects like the Kazungula Bridge have linked Zambia to other nations, thereby facilitating trade and increasing opportunities for businesses for our people. The Mongu/Kalabo Bridge is a marvel and a praise item.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me to commend the hon. Minister of Finance for addressing the need for reforms and the creation of an environment conducive for good governance. Every public resource is valuable and should be under the microscope for accountability.

 

Sir, the hon. Minister of Finance, in paragraph 148, of his Budget Speech acknowledged that corruption is against our core values and will not be condoned in whatever form it may be. The hon. Minister reaffirmed the resolve of the PF Government to protect public resources. In this regard, the Government should strictly enforce all the provisions of the Public Finance Management Act No. 1 of 2018. The Ministry of Religious Affairs and Nation Guidance will continue to mainstream national values and principles in Government ministries, public and private institutions, the family and the  general public.

 

Mr Speaker, as I close, let me bring in the God factor in national development. Zambia is a covenant nation under the rule of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is a Christian nation. One wise man said, “Unless the Lord builds the house, they labour in vain who build it.” The nation will continue to look to God for his mercy and intervention. There is no situation he cannot turn around. We serve a miracle working God and I urge the people of Zambia to continue to unite in prayer.

 

Mr Speaker, it is righteousness and justice that will exalt Zambia.  It is for this reason that the people of Zambian reject leaders who promote homosexuality and gayism. The people of Zambia, starting from church and traditional leaders and all well-meaning Zambians should say no and reject leaders who are in agreement with those that promote homosexuality in the name of liberalism and human rights.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to contribute to the Budget Speech by the Minister of Finance, Hon. Dr Bwalya Ng’andu. I also wish to express my gratitude to the immediate past Minister of Finance, Hon. Margaret Mwanakatwe. 

 

Mr Speaker, let me begin by congratulating the women of Zambia. We were all once little girls. Today is the International Day of the Girl Child and I think that it is important to recognise the work and the contributions of the many women of Zambia to the development of this country. We have a very good example and role model immediately on my right, Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Mr Speaker, I think that we should be using this day to look out for who these brave women that have truly contributed to our country and truly give them the support they deserve.

Mr Speaker, when the Chief Whip was debating, he said that running Government is a serious business that requires leadership to be brave. Before I go further, I also want to acknowledge what Hon. Mubika Mubika said on the Floor when he was debating. He said that it is important to stand out and be above board. 

 

Mr Nkombo: Question!

 

Ms Siliya: Yes, we can question, but I think that what Hon. Mubika Mubika was trying to say is that we must take the business of this House seriously because it is about the people of Zambia. This is why I want to assure Hon. Sumaili that the people of Zambia heard what she said. The Government has done the right thing by making sure that Parliamentary proceedings are televised and broadcast on radio. Radio transmission has been extended to almost all districts so that democracy can be enhanced and the people of Zambia can hear and differentiate between what the Chief Whip referred to as comedy and serious business. Running the Government is very serious business.

 

Mr Speaker, I have heard a lot of lamentations in this House vis-à-vis, the Budget Speech by the hon. Minister of Finance and the President’s Speech. I have heard people state that the Government is not concerned or it is not aware of the economic turbulence that the country is going through. I recall very clearly that neither did the President nor the hon. Minister of Finance sugarcoat their speeches. They both refereed to the debt repayment pressure on families and the nation. They both referred to the effect of drought and floods as far as hunger is concerned in certain parts of the country. They both lamented on the issues of unfinished infrastructure and the need to accelerate infrastructure development in the country. They both referred to the matter relating to food pricing and of course, at the heart of all this, jobs for our young people.

 

Mr Speaker, as I was preparing to debate, I decided to get feedback from citizens. As the occupant of the Office of the Government Spokesperson, I get a lot of feedback from citizens. One of the things I have heard from the people as far as this Budget debate has been going on is that Zambians have been expecting a high level debate, instead of a partisan or tribal one. The Zambians have said that what they expect us to be talking about as we debate the 2020 Budget, is how we are going to accelerate reforms in the Government, especially in terms of procurement so that we are able to deliver efficiently to the people of Zambia. The people are saying that they expect my colleagues, especially on the left, to ask the Government to continue streamlining processes such as procurement in the Government so that they are done transparently to avoid the propensity to continue creating a culture of corruption.

 

Mr Speaker, in response to the people who have been telling me these things, I have told them that the Smart Zambia Institute (SZI) will continue to be funded even in 2020. This is because through technology, we can enhance the Government’s processes and decision making. Just two days ago, the co-ordinator of SZI told the nation that using Information and Communication Technology (ICT), he was able to remove ghost workers from the civil service who were being paid outside their salary scale. He also removed people masquerading as peasant farmers on the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). That is the response by the Government, and this is what the hon. Minister of Finance is proposing to continue in the 2020 Budget.

 

Mr Speaker, I heard a lot of debate about infrastructure. Sometimes, we, on the right get confused because all we hear from our colleagues on the left is that they would like infrastructure of some sort, be it a school, road or court to be built in their areas, but they also lament about debt. In response to the need for infrastructure, especially after the revised Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP), this Government realised that if it was going to accelerate infrastructure development, it had to get finances, and that is what happened. Infrastructure begun to be developed at a faster rate we have ever seen in this country. Now, here is our problem. Some of the debates I heard almost insinuated that infrastructure development must stop in Muchinga or Luapula because it must be provided for in Mwembezhi. That is a wrong argument. Instead, we should be advocating having so much money such that all areas can have infrastructure development.

 

Mr Speaker, the argument that it is not good to have infrastructure development in one part of the country but have it in another part is pedestrian. We should be advocating accelerating economic development so that there is infrastructure for everyone.

 

Mr Speaker, I continue to get confused because the same people who are asking for infrastructure are the same ones singing the loudest all the time about corruption. Now, get me right on this issue, corruption is not an event. Addressing corruption is part and parcel of a serious Government and this is why the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and other agencies were created.

 

Mr Speaker, people use political gimmicks and sit in their chairs shouting “forty-eight houses” when they have not prepared for debate. I think we need to be a bit serious because the Government is about serious business. I do accept that like in any other country, there are corruption cases in Zambia that are perhaps, not managed properly. However, I have confidence in institutions of the Government such as the ACC, the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) and others that they do their job.

 

Mr Speaker, in fact, it was the ACC that told all of us about the forty-eight houses because that is how transparent the Government is. It is the ACC that told us that it had seized these houses and that it was investigating. I think we should give credit where it is due. It is pedestrian approach to leadership if people continue to sing about the ACC just to bad-mouth the Government, create uncertainty in the nation and remove integrity from the same institutions that they will use to manage the country, if they ever get into the Government.

 

Mr Speaker, I think we need to have a candid discussion in this country about corruption because I heard people making jokes about the reference to the fight against corruption by the hon. Minister of Finance. I believe that on one hand, they are creating a perception that will lead to people not having confidence in the financial markets in the country and on the other hand, they come to this House and say that they want infrastructure. How is that going to be harmonised?

 

Sir, this Government, through the hon. Minister of Finance, has provided funds to construct feeder roads because 70 per cent of Zambians are involved in agriculture in one way or another. The Zambian farmers are extremely happy that for the first time, they are being paid properly. In parts of Nakonde and other parts of Zambia, a farmer is getting K180 for his 50 kg bag of maize. That is what farmers have been wanting for a long time. They have been looking forward to their investment in maize farming being commensurate with their return on that investment.

 

Mr Speaker, yes, there could be a problem with the few of us who live in urban areas and are not productive in agriculture. We want to be subsidised by a poor farmer because we want cheap mealie meal. These are two problems. The problem that the Government needed to address first was to pay the farmer the right amount of money.

 

Mr Speaker, we need to address the problem of mealie meal prices in urban areas differently. The way to address it is to ensure that the farmer continues to be paid properly so that he invests more and increases production. This way, the price of mealie meal will come down. You cannot hope that the price of mealie meal will come down by wishful thinking, or by lamenting in this House. That is wrong.

 

Mr Speaker, the right thing that the Government has done is to invest in agriculture such that farmers now know and are sure that they will be supported by the Government through the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). The private sector, millers and buyers are now seeing value and are buying maize from farmers at the right price. We cannot kill the farmer because we in the urban areas feel we deserve cheap mealie meal and that the farmer does not deserve the right price. No! These are two problems that need two solutions.

 

Mr Speaker, on the issue of load shedding, the President was extremely candid on this matter. He said that his administration and past ones had not done well on this matter. This is a mark of leadership. He was able to concede that, maybe, he did not do well, but it does not mean that there is nothing that can be done now. On the demand side, the Government is preparing a massive campaign to replace incandescent bulbs with light-emitting diodes (LEDs). In our homes, we should have mixed sources of energy, solar geysers, solar panels and gas stoves. The people of Zambia are urging the hon. Minister of Finance to do more than just zero-rating products and reducing any other costs to bring these things in this country. This is what the people are saying. That is the feedback they are giving to the hon. Minister of Finance.

 

Mr Speaker, what I expected the people on your left to contribute to this Budget is what else this hon. Minister of Finance can do in his proposal for 2020 to make it easy and cheap for Zambians to access cheaper energy apart from electricity from the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation Limited (ZESCO). People want solar panels at schools and shopping malls. They want the Government to start thinking about a policy for public buildings where there is no business at night to have solar power. This is the programme that the Government must be implementing. This is the feedback I get from the people of Zambia as far as this Budget is concerned.

 

Mr Speaker, on the supply side, people are asking what the Government is doing to unlock the tariff challenges so that there is massive investment in the electricity sector. The Government has already started doing these things through the hon. Minister of Finance and the hon. Minister of Energy. The Government has committed massive resources in taxpayers’ money so that if the worst comes to the worst, the country can still import power as a stopgap measure. However, in the long term, we have to invest in mixed sources of energy.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, coming to business, the people of Zambia said that they expected the Opposition in this House to fight for them. One way to make Zambians rich is definitely using the Budget to create business opportunities. They are saying that they want the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act actualised so that they can get big businesses. They do not want breadcrumbs anymore from policies such as the 20 per cent subcontracting policy in the road sector. They want to participate in big business. This is what Zambians are saying about the debate on this Budget. They also want to see serious transparency and enhanced participation of Zambians in procurement. Even bigger than that, the people of Zambia have said that no country can give its people business if there are no local banks. In West Africa, particularly in Nigeria, there are so many local banks that are able to support citizens. This is the debate that the people of Zambia were expecting.

 

Mr Speaker, on the issue of tax, whether it is the Sales Tax or the Value Added Tax (VAT), I think that this is water under the bridge. We have moved on. Through the hon. Minister of Finance, we have put in place administrative measures to ensure that the mines pay what is due to this country. The Government will continue to engage with the hon. Minister of Finance, particularly from the media side. We need to take advantage of the low hanging fruits, especially in the film industry so that we can create jobs for our people.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Now, here is the most important thing. Zambia is not an island. I have heard people make jokes in this House about the 2 per cent growth rate. Zambia is a country made up of families. I want to ask what our productivity at family level is to contribute to increasing that 2 per cent growth rate. What is our productivity at family level?

 

Mr Speaker, the Director-General of the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) said that one of the biggest problems in Africa that is causing economic challenges is families having children they cannot afford. So, what is our productivity and contribution to the national growth at family level so that this 2 per cent becomes 8 per cent?

China ensured that even at family level, there was no excess expenditure and everybody banked money so that the Government had access to it. What are we doing at family level in this country? These are the questions that the public expected the Opposition to debate vis-à-vis this Budget.

 

Mr Speaker, the PF might be responsible for many things in the imagination of the Opposition, but one thing I am very convinced it is not responsible for is the extent of the economic turbulence. Economic turbulence has been as a result of external economic shocks. You just have to look back from 2013 to date to see the level of external economic shocks. Just recently, in the Financial Times, the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the Currency Exchange Fund (TCX) was lamenting that many African countries have no chance because they are not responsible for commodity pricing. In Zambia, we have two commodity products that we depend on. We have copper for revenue generation. You may recall that the price of copper in 2011 was US$10,000 per tonne, but it dropped to US$1,000 and has never gone back up. It is still hanging at US$6,000. Sometimes I wonder if people follow the same economic news that I follow.

 

Mr Speaker, as regards fuel, again, we are not a fuel producing country. We depend on an international commodity priced internationally. It is in these five years that the PF has been in the Government that the price of fuel for the first time went over the US$100 mark. It does not matter how clever you are, you are not responsible for this pricing. The price of commodities such as fuel has caused such a shock that even the financing we had borrowed for infrastructure development has become quite stressful because of exchange rate losses. I still believe that it is because of the resilience of this leadership and the people of Zambia that we are even still here. Other economies have collapsed.

 

Mr Speaker, October is a great month because not only is it the month of my birthday, but the month when the country has the national day of prayer. I think that in executing this Budget, we must ensure that we execute it with our national values at the back of our minds. I heard my dear hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola say that for his party, it is about moving Zambia forward. However, moving forward is a matter of location. Sometimes, depending on where you are, you could actually be going backwards. Yakumbuyo.

 

Mr Speaker, I believe that the people of Zambia want a Budget executed with national values so that God can be kind to us, give us his grace and ensure that we have good rains this year.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you so much for this opportunity to debate. Those who refuse progress are the ones who will come here and mislead the nation on national values.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister of Transport and Communication (Mr Kafwaya): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to also contribute to the Motion under debate on the Floor of the House.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance was clear that he brought a message from His Excellency the President and the President urged for favourable consideration. Therefore, I am considering this Motion favourably this morning.

 

Mr Speaker, I intend to debate this Motion under two headings. Firstly, I will consider the views that have been expressed by some hon. Members in this House on this Budget both from your left and right and, secondly, I will also give my personal reflections on the Budget before I conclude. Let me introduce my discourse.

 

Mr Speaker, in the Budget Address presented by the hon. Minister of Finance, the last sentence of paragraph 6, states that:

 

“I will pay particular attention to the dismantling of arrears related to pensioners and suppliers of goods and service to Government.”

 

Mr Speaker, in paragraph 8, the first sentence states as follows:

 

“Sir, the theme for the 2020 Budget is therefore, Focusing National Priorities Towards Stimulating the Domestic Economy.”

 

Mr Speaker, by way of introduction, I wish to state that there is a lot of consistency in the manner in which the Government is viewing what it has to do in the 2020 Budget. If you focus on dismantling arrears and paying retirees, you are actually stimulating the local economy. Therefore, I see a lot of consistency. With that introduction, it brings me to my first point, which is:  my reflections on the views of my hon. Colleagues.

 

Mr Speaker, when debating this Budget, the hon. Member for Kabwe Central, Hon. Tutwa Ngulube commented as follows:

 

         “I now want to declare the alternative budget a disaster.”

 

Mr Speaker, I want to thoroughly agree with my hon. Colleague that this alternative budget, on which I am also going to reflect, is a disaster.Mr Speaker, the alternative budget is a disaster because there is literally no seriousness. I marvelled when Hon. Mundubile debated this morning when he clearly exposed the lack of depth, seriousness and comedy contained in this document from the first to the last paragraph. This document is a disaster! I have to agree with Hon. Ngulube and I have no question in my mind.

 

Mr Speaker, Hon. Garry Nkombo, Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central, when debating this Budget, commented as follows:

 

“Which hon. Member in this House can say that decisions made by the PF benefited the people in Kalingalinga?”

 

Mr Speaker, I want to ask whether the road that passes in front of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) offices is a benefit to the people of Kalingalinga. I want to ask whether the Kamloops Road is a benefit to the people of Kalingalinga. I want to ask whether the expansion of the Levy Mwanawasa Hospital is a benefit to the people of Kalingalinga.

 

Mr Speaker, these are decisions that the PF has made. These are the decisions that have been made by the Government which is led by the Patriotic Front (PF). Therefore, if you think that this does not benefit the people of Kalingalinga, I tend to wonder what decisions you are likely to make if you held the position that the PF is holding.

 

Mr Speaker, Hon. Ephraim Belemu commented when debating this Budget saying the following:

 

         “A budget needs to be consistent. A budget needs to be coherent.”

 

Mr Speaker, as far as I understand it, consistency is a technical word. It means that when you say you are pro-poor, your decisions need to be pro-poor. The PF has declared that it is pro-poor. So decisions made by the PF need to be consistent with that declaration of being pro-poor. All the decisions we are talking about like the creation of hospitals, erection of telecommunication towers in the villages and all over the country, the improvements in all sectors which are aimed at economic stimulation and job creation, are pro-poor. The people who need economic opportunities and jobs more than anyone else are the poor people. Therefore, I see dismantling of arrears as being consistent with the mission of the PF of ensuring that our economy is stimulated for the poor people to have economic opportunities.

 

Mr Speaker, Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane made the following comment:

 

“Out of every Kwacha that the hon. Minister will collect as a tax, only 6 ngwee will go towards the people because the bulk of it will go to the salaries of civil servants and the other bulk will go towards debt service.”

 

Mr Speaker, I want to declare that comment false because to the contrary, 100 per cent of every Kwacha collected by that hon. Minister will go towards the Zambian people and the Zambian economy.

 

Mr Speaker, here is why I say so. The 50 per cent which will go towards public servants, including ourselves, is going to the Zambian people. We are not outside of this economy but within. The other chunk which is going towards debt servicing is going to service debt which has already created the roads and hospitals in Zambia. The discretional funding which remains, will be spent here in the country. Therefore, 100 per cent of money collected is going towards promoting the Zambian people.

 

Mr Speaker, finally, I want to agree with the Chief Whip. As he debated, I was stimulated and very happy because he clearly exposed the lack of seriousness in the United Party for National Development (UPND). Certainly, if I was in the UPND and I had a chance to look through their alternative budget, I could have advised that the alternative budget should not be publicised. However, due to lack of seriousness, the document is now in public domain. Thank God the leader of the Opposition in the House even said that their leader, Mr Hakainde Hichilema (HH), demanded that their alternative budget should be debated. Therefore, I will debate it.

 

 

Mr Speaker, this brings to my second point, which is: my reflections on both the Budget and alternative budget. The word ‘alternative’, and I may be limited in my understanding of English, might imply that if this is not there, then we have to put in this one. The alternative Government could be, if the PF is not in Government, another party will be Government. That is an alternative Government. A shadow cabinet would mean if this cabinet is not there, this is the cabinet that will replace the existing one. Therefore, for the UPND, this (waving a document) is what would replace this (waving another document). Let me go to the first page of the alternative budget.

 

Mr Speaker, what you will see on the first page, is HH in UPND regalia flashing the UPND symbol.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ngulube: Shame!

 

Mr Kafwaya: Yet, this is the alternative national budget.

 

Dr Malama: For them.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, the first sentence in the alternative budget is as follows:

 

“The United Party for National Development (UPND) believes in being a forward looking party…”

My friends, this is an alternative national budget, and yet it is talking about UPND. What type of thinking is this? Are you telling us that UPND is a nation? Let me tell you how the Budget reads at the beginning. Paragraph 1 in the National Budget Address reads as follows:

 

“Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now resolve into Committee of Supply on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the year 1^st January, 2020 to 31^st December, 2020 presented to the National Assembly on Friday, 27^th September, 2019.”

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker that is how the National Budget begins. This is not the PF’s budget because on the cover of the Budget Address, is a picture of His Excellency the President showing off the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP) and not the PF Manifesto. However, these guys and hon. Colleagues of ours are showing Mr Hakainde Hichilema. This is not a budget for the nation and I agree with Hon. Tutwa Ngulube that this document is a disaster and a political slogan.

 

Sir, what more is in the National Budget? I have found schedules of revenue and expenditure –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Will the hon. Minister please withdraw the word ‘guys’.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, I graciously withdraw and replace it with ‘these comedians’.

 

Mr Mwale: With ‘boys’!

 

Mr Kafwaya: It is has been accepted that the alternative budget is total comedy.

 

Sir, I was talking about schedules contained in the National Budget demonstrating expenditure. In fact, it raised some feelings that the hon. Minister of Finance was being inconsistent because, we are talking about climate change yet he only gave very little money for environmental issues. The 7NDP which the President is showing off on the cover of the Budget Speech establishes a different model of governance by introducing the integrated multi-sectoral approach. This means is that, we, in the Ministry of Transport and Communication and those in the Ministry of Tourism and Arts, must consider issues of the environment when making decisions.

 

Mr Speaker, when we say an environment, this is just a line. Hon. Members on your left can visit various ministries and see programmes that are aimed at managing our environment.

 

Mr Speaker, I have just shown the schedule of the expenditure. When I open the next page, I will show the schedule of revenue. However, in this alternative budget, what is seen is Mr Hakainde Hichilema and no schedule anywhere for either expenditure or income. What type of a budget is this? Let me now tell the hon. Members on your left that to have a budget prepared, it requires skill. People without skill cannot produce a budget. This is why what is seen in this document are things which hon. Members your left think can promote them, because this is a group of people who are so keen on misleading Zambians.

 

Sir, the hon. Members on your left have always said that they have capacity and I have asked: A political party which lost both vice-presidents and it is now going to a year and it has failed to replace the vice-president, not even one out of the two, where then is their internal capacity?  The lack of capacity of hon. Members on your left is now clear. It is even in their alternative budget. The lack of depth and capacity of the UPND is now being demonstrated in the documents which they are now bringing to Parliament for debate.

 

Hon. Member: It is the United Party for National Disaster.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Ni United Party for National Disaster, indeed. I like that, my elder brother.

 

Mr Speaker, I think that the alternative budget is a terrible disaster because it is anchored on nothing! It is anchored on nothing but the strong desire to mislead people. If the United Party for National Development (UPND) was serious, it would have produced a manifesto. The ten-point plan which is so contradictory when one reads it, cannot even support the National Budget. This is why the Budget presented by the hon. Minister of Finance, Dr Ng’andu, is based on the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP), while the alternative budget has no basis. Its basis is political expedience and the myopic nature of the political grouping called the UPND. If this party was farsighted, it could have consulted on this budget.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

 

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Malanji): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate. It is quite disappointing that I will only be talking to Evg. Shabula, who is also already converted, and my sister on the other side because everyone on the left has walked out of the House. One wonders what that means.

 

Sir, to start with, the theme of the 2020 Budget is “Focusing National Priorities Towards Stimulating the Domestic Economy.” Any Zambian who means well will always put Zambia first.

 

Sir, Che Guevara and the former Cuban Leader, Fidel Castrol, had a slogan.  The slogan is not only used in Cuba but in quite a good number of Spanish countries. The slogan is “Patrias o muerte,” which means “homeland first or death.”

 

Mr Speaker, the problem is that some people come to Parliament with a pre-conceived mind. I remember, in the 1980s, on the Copperbelt, there was an influx of the Senegalese. The immigration department used to have operations every month to make sure that illegal immigrants were flushed out. When landlords would leave home, they would tell their tenants that in case immigration officers come to the premise to ask for the tenant’s identity, they should say their name is “Chanda”.  When the immigration officers went to a house and asked a different question such as how “how many people are in this House?” The foreigner would say “Chanda.” The immigration officers would then know that the person they were talking to was Senegalese. This is exactly what is obtaining here. People are told to come to Parliament and object whatever will be on the Floor. Therefore, they come to oppose even what makes sense.

Mr Nkombo entered the Assembly Chamber.

 

Mr Malanji: Sir, I am glad that my in-law from Mazabuka Central has come so that he can get the message.

 

 Mr Nkombo: They are at the funeral procession. Bayenda kumalilo. Munapaya munthu imwe.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, concentrate on the Budget.

 

Mr Nkombo interjected.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mazabuka Central!

 

Hon. Minister, you were not given the Floor to debate in that manner. You may continue.

 

Mr Malanji: Mr Speaker, thank you for that guidance.

 

Sir, my colleagues on the left must draw a line of modus vivendi. There has to be a time to look at the bigger picture. There have been debates on the Budget from the people on the left that gave a generic face to infrastructure. The people on the left have said that this Government is spending a lot on infrastructure. The growth of population automatically dictates the demand for infrastructure in any given country. The problem is that they have failed to accept that there is a Government in place, and any given Government has a vision. People have debated that the Government is spending lavishly by building airports costing US$1 billion. Dubai had a vision to accomplish what it has now. It achieved this between 1989 and 2000.

 

Mr Speaker, in 1989, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) for the United Arab Emirates (UAE) was only US$75 billion but today, it is beyond US$475 billion. People asked why the UAE was building flashy airports. They also asked which people would go to go to Dubai of all places in the Middle East. However, the UAE had a vision.

 

Mr Speaker, Zambia is landlocked and interlinked, which makes it a very good base for that kind of business. The vision of the Government is to make Zambia a regional airline hub. Currently, people have to fly from Zambia to Johannesburg and Nairobi before connecting to Europe. The vision of this Government is to bring development through tourism, especially that people have been ‘singing’ about tourism. When people find out that we have infrastructure that suits tourism, they will fly to Zambia.

 

Sir, we have been ‘singing’ about how to export beef. Look at our neighboring country, Botswana which is almost a desert. It is exporting a lot of beef to Europe. It has a value chain for its livestock. In Zambia, you will find people claiming to be from Dundumwezi saying they have many animals, but their output is low when it comes to livestock products. We are supposed to have beef processing companies like Fray Bentos. Copper Harvest Foods Limited in Ndola is supposed to be in Choma to make the export of beef products easier. Now, if someone has to supply meat outside the country, he has to go and store the meat in Kabulonga and Mumbwa where there are big cold rooms.

 

Mr Speaker, the airports being constructed will have things like cold rooms to help in the export of meat. We will be able to store meat in one area so that a when the Boeing 747 cargo plane flies out of Lusaka to the UAE or Kuwait, the meat will still be frozen even after a seven hour flight.

 

Yet, people will come to this House and sing that what are the airports for? I know that for most of our hon. Colleagues, the best transport they use is chikochikala.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Malanji: Hon. Members on your left have to understand that the aviation business is broad. There are some stakeholders who have already come on board and want to set up a school of excellence to train pilots from the current Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe Airport in Ndola. Thus, when the new Copperbelt International Airport is operational, the old one will be turned into a training school, which is not only going to be training Zambians, but students from all over the Southern African region.

 

  Mr Speaker, population dictates demand for infrastructure. The population is growing, as Hon. Siliya said that the more population a country has, the more infrastructure it needs. So we have to plan for these things as a country. People are asking that why are roads being built everywhere? Roads are a fundamental ingredient to development. To start with, when somebody flies out, he/she will be asked about the gold deposits in Mwinilunga and how Mwinilunga can be accessed by air. Unfortunately, there is no airport in Mwinilunga and remember that these investors come with jets which cannot land on an airstrip. Once the grass gets into the engine, the jet will be parked right there until repair for it to take off.

 

We, therefore, need infrastructure development as a country. Investors from outside are first of all going to look at what kind of infrastructure the country has. We already have the base. The climate is conducive and every investor is yearning to come to Zambia, but we must not forget that we have a deficit in infrastructure.

 

Sir, no wonder this Government has a vision. I was in the Northern Province last week and you should see the provision for farm blocks on the Nakonde/Mbala Road. Even when you take an investor to invest in that farm block, the investor will see the ground work that has been done to create a comfortable platform for investment.

 

Mr Speaker, as regards energy, people will come to this House and say that the Government is exporting power when Zambia itself has got a power deficit. We must try to get the correct data and understand why the country is exporting power. The power generation at Kariba Dam has three peak times. This is in the morning, lunch time and in the evening, after 2200 hours to 2230 hours, the country has so much power. Our hon. Colleagues on your left must know that for the whole of the North-Western Province, excluding mines, its consumption is below 20 MW. The whole of the Northern Province’s power consumption is only about 15 MW. When there is that peak hour drop after 2200 hours, the country has a lot of power. This is why the Government is coming up with the Kasama/Kayambi Interconnector Grid Project, when put into effect, will supply Tanzania and Kenya in East Africa.

 

This is the same grid from where we are going to harness any hydro points that will be in the Northern circuit. Not only that, it is also going to connect the mines that are mushrooming in the Northern and Luapula Provinces. How are we going to feed these mines? The colossal amount that is going into this infrastructure is meant for that.

 

Sir, the Government is looking beyond tomorrow. This Government is proactive and it does not want to be firefighting throughout. People have come to Parliament and asked why the military is spending so much. They have been questioning the expenditure on the military in this country. They even go further asking why we are buying military planes when there is no war here.

 

Mr Speaker, from the time of independence to-date, when we go on these multilateral platforms, Zambia is still being appreciated for its input in peace and security co-operation. As I speak, we have got more than 1,000 troops in the Central African Republic (CAR), but we should look at the figures of what is coming to Zambia. The same works that we are doing in the CAR, some countries such as Rwanda are coming back with a big cheque. Why is it so? It is because they take troops there. When they take their equipment to the United Nations (UN) operations, it is not a dry lease, but a wet lease. This means that they will now have a demand for pilots who will operate that equipment. In this regard, the cheques are quite hefty.

 

Mr Speaker, so, you will find that from this scenario, even the army has the ability to sustain itself as opposed to always depending on the Treasury. So, when people look at the Budget, instead of itemising which projects the Government is spending on, they want to give it a generic face to say the Government is spending too much on infrastructure. At the end of the day, they are not giving details on what infrastructure they think the Government should not go ahead with. As the Executive, we want the hon. Members on the left to mention which infrastructure they do not want in these provinces.

 

Mr Speaker, I am glad and I appreciate my dear brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Shang’ombo, Hon. Mubika Mubika. His debate today showed a lot of wisdom and maturity ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Malanji: … because he itemised some of the things that the Government has done in his constituency. Most of the hon. Members on your left come to this House with a preconceived mind of opposing everything that the Government says. When someone is in the Opposition, it does not mean that he or she has to oppose everything.

 

Mr Nkombo: Question!

 

Mr Malanji: Mr Speaker, even if the President or the hon. Minister of Finance quoted a verse from the Bible on the Floor of this House, hon. Members of the Opposition will still say that the verse is not from the Bible, just because it has been bought by somebody from the Executive.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Evg. Shabula interjected.

 

Mr Malanji: Mr Speaker, I am not undermining Evg. Shabula here. I am just stating facts.

 

Mr Speaker, like I said in my preamble, our hon. Colleagues in the Opposition should know that there is a Government in place. If we make mistakes as hon. Members of the Government today and we are condemned tomorrow, we should not say, “No, it is because of Gary Nkombo”, because people will say, “You are foolish. Why were you listening to somebody who is not in charge?”

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Minister will by all means avoid naming hon. Members who are seated quietly.

 

Mr Malanji: Mr Speaker, I withdraw –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

 

Ms Kapata: Sit down. Go and bury the coffin which is on the street.

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The point of order is not going to be allowed because the Chair has already picked what the hon. Minister wanted to say and is trying to guide. Avoid mentioning hon. Members who are quietly listening to your good debate.

 

Continue, hon. Minister.

 

Mr Malanji: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. I withdraw that statement and replace it with the –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 15^th October, 2019.

 

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