Friday, 4^th October, 2019

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

 

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an idea of the Business it will consider next week.

 

Sir, on Tuesday, 8^th October, 2019, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motion entitled “Increase Amounts Outstanding at Any One Time on Domestic and External Loans” to be moved by the hon. Minister of Finance. The House will thereafter, consider the Committee Stage of the Zambia Medicines and Medical Supplies Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 13 of 2019. Then, the House will resume the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2020 National Budget.

 

Sir, on Wednesday, 9^th October, 2019, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2020 National Budget.

 

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 10^th October, 2019, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2020 National Budget.

 

Sir, on Friday, 11^th October, 2019, the Business of the House will start with the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer. After that, the House will deal with presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Committee Stage of the Nurses and Midwives Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 14 of 2019. Thereafter, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2020 National Budget.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

_______

 

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me this opportunity –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

 

You may continue hon. Member for Monze Central.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, I was saying that I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a very important issue that affects half of this nation. I am aware that the Vice-President is going to tour some parts of the Western Province which are highly afflicted by the hunger situation in the country. I am also aware that as result of the severe hunger situation that is obtaining –

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Monze Central, give me a minute. I really do not know what the problem is. If there is any problem, write a note to the Clerks-at-the-Table, they will help me determine what this problem is, whatever it is.

 

Hon. Government Members interjected.

 

Mr Speaker: Just write a note, we will deal with that.

 

You may continue hon. Member for Monze Central.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I was saying that as a result of the severe –

                                                                                                   

Mr Mutale: On a point or order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Monze Central, resume your seat again.

 

Hon. Member for Chitambo, speak!

 

Mr Mutale: My microphone is not coming on.

 

Mr Mutelo: It is there, just speak.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I am sure you are wondering why the hon. Members from the right are complaining. It is a trend in this House that whenever we indicate to debate or ask questions on the Floor of this House, we always discover that our colleagues on the left side of the House come first.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let him continue with his point of order.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, my point of order is that: Are the operators of the machines in order to be allowing one side of the house to come first ....

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mutale: … than the other side?

 

Mr Mbulakulima: It cannot be a coincidence.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, my prayer is that you rule and investigate this matter.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order, order!

Ordinarily, during this segment, as I am sure you are all aware, I would not allow a point of order, but I did sense that there was something wrong.  I did not just know what it was. Coming to the point of order, which in any event, I allowed, I reserve my ruling.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: There is no ruling to make.

 

Mr Speaker: I want to engage the technocrats as well so that I give an informed response.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

I want to give an informed response because that is a technical issue. The hon. Member for Monze Central may continue with his question.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Let us have some order now.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I was saying that as a result of the severe hunger situation that is obtaining in the Western Province and other parts of the country, we have now reached a critical situation where we have started losing lives. We have lost five lives in Shang’ombo.

 

Mr Kundoti: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: The Government is consistently stating that it is able to provide the requisite foodstuff in this country. The budget for the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) is merely K27,872,298 in 2019. According to the hon. Minister in Her Honour the Vice-President’s Office, 1.7 million households are currently affected. By March next year, 2.3 million households will be affected by hunger. Taking a conservative figure –

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. PF Members: What is your question?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I am coming to the question.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I pleaded –

 

Hon. PF Members: What is your question!

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Monze Central, resume your seat again.

 

Mr Mukosa: The preamble is too long.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: He is a leader!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: I am in charge.

 

Dr Malama: Correct!

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: If you attempt to assist me in that fashion …

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: … we may part company.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chabi: For how long?

 

Mr Speaker: I always say this, let us exercise patience. There is a point he wants to make. Not all points can be made in a few words; it is not possible. Be patient, he will finish putting across his question.

 

Mr Chabi: Nomba kula dibeta ifyo?

 

Mr Speaker: We have stopped the clock, so what we are doing now is wasting time, and that is not a very good exercise to do. Exercise patience, the hon. Member will be done, and we will get back to our business.

 

The hon. Member for Monze Central may continue.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I am humbled.

 

Mr Speaker, taking into account the average figure pertaining to the price of mealie meal, which is currently at K150 per 25 kg bag, especially in the Western Province, and looking at the figure of 1.7 million households affected, the amount required to provide each household with at least a bag of mealie meal per month is K255 million. The Government has about K28 million per year. The question that begs an answer from Her Honour the Vice-President is: Where is the Government going to find the money to feed the starving people of this country when it only has K27,872,298? Does it not want to declare the situation a disaster so that it can lobby for international support?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, at the moment, Zambia is food secure, as was recently explained by the hon. Minister of Agriculture. The issue of declaring the hunger situation in the country a disaster has been exhausted.

 

Dr Malama: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, a disaster is a disaster. The Government, led by His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, would not let its people die of hunger.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: There is no one who has died because of hunger.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Ha!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: If that was the case, the Government would have received a report on that death. However, there is no report pertaining to that situation.

 

Mr Speaker, over the past nine months, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) has been able to reach out to 1.7 million Zambians. I am confident that we have the resources to reach 2.3 million Zambians who will be fed through food distribution under the DMMU by March 2020.

 

Mr Speaker, the allocation in the 2020 Budget of K28 million as indicated by the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central is not the only allocation that will be used by the DMMU. In that Budget, there is K100 million allocated to the Contingency Fund, which the DMMU is able to draw from.

 

Mr Speaker, secondly, there has been continuous support from co-operating partners as well as from other well-wishers to the humanitarian initiative. This has enhanced the capacity of the DMMU to distribute food to the affected communities in our country.

 

Mr Speaker, we are on course, and the DMMU is doing its work. Our concern only relates to the distribution of relief food so that it gets to the intended beneficiaries. The Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) have been mandated to do the distribution at the centre in the districts. The DMMU is working around the clock and has deployed supervisors in all the districts that have been affected with hunger to ensure that the relief food gets to the intended beneficiaries.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, yesterday on Muvi TV news, the National Co-ordinator for the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), Mr Chanda Kabwe, informed the nation that the Southern Province was profiled as the second hit with hunger. He further said that we were making a lot of noise as if we were the most hit. Is it the Government’s position that us who are speaking for the people who are hungry in the Southern Province are making noise?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I regret that I did not listen to that television broadcast.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Mr Speaker, the World Bank has been our co-operating partner for a long time and I know that currently, it is undertaking about eighteen projects in Zambia. Unfortunately, some of these projects are about to be recalled by the World Bank because the Government has failed to start the implementation process. I would like to know why the Government is taking long to implement these projects, just like the way it does on the Chinese projects.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, those that have been in Government know very well that guidelines provided by these multilateral institutions such as the World Bank and others take long to study, follow through and implement. There is no doubt that there are multilateral agencies that have supported Zambia and the country is implementing some of these projects. Some have delayed and some have been on course. There are quite a number of projects that I can point at funded by the African Development Bank (AfDB), World Bank, International Fund for Agriculture Development (IFAD) in agriculture and many others that are on course, but, of course, you will find one or two projects that are delayed due to a number of factors.

 

 I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Mr Speaker, the people of Sambantenga and Nchankwa in Shibuchinga chiefdom of Lufwanyama, have been evicted from their pieces of land. This land has been given to a foreigner as an investor called Zamtum. The affected people have not been given alternative land to settle on, although they were promised and told that they would be compensated. Furthermore, the school which was built there has been affected because the enrolment has gone down. I would like to find out if Her Honour the Vice-President is aware about this issue in Lufwanyama. If so, what plans does the Government have over the issue?

 

The Vice- President: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of this case because it has not been reported to the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources which is responsible for surveying and demarcation of land. However, I will urge the hon. Member of Parliament for Lufwanyama to visit the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources so that he can bring this case to her attention for the Government to intervene if there is need for compensation, in this particular case, or for the settlers to be given alternative land.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I am aware that the Government through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has got a grain storage facility with the capacity of about 2 million metric tonnes. However, the Government through FRA is just able to stock about 500,000 metric tonnes. In an event that this year there is a bumper harvest, are there any plans by the Government to increase the reserves from 500,000 metric tonnes to 1 million metric tonnes or more?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, at the moment, the Government has not considered increasing the reserves.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to ask a question on behalf of the people of Zambezi East. Following the Government’s recruitment of 3,000 nurses countrywide, Zambezi East was a beneficiary. However, the new nurses that were posted to Zambezi started work around April this year. To our surprise, the nurses were paid only K5,000 each, despite having worked from April to-date. What is the Government’s policy in terms of paying civil servants like nurses who were recruited in April and are supposed to be paid their arrears because they worked for the Government?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is a critical shortage of jobs in the country and those 3,500 nurses and other medical auxiliary workers who were recruited should consider themselves blessed. However, when it comes to the emoluments, treasury authority was not granted, but now it has been granted and the nurses are now on salary after going through certain administrative issues that had to be sorted out before they were put on the payroll. So the situation has been normalised and the hon. Member of Parliament should not worry about the nurses being underpaid.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

I ask that the stopwatch be stopped, so that I can respond to the point of order raised earlier on. Investigations have been done and completed. The counsel I have obtained from the experts, is that the system is actually functional.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The simple principle at play is that it works on the first come, first serve basis.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

In addition –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: I am still rendering my ruling. In addition, the staff is making efforts to increase the queue size, so that at first instance, it can accommodate many more hon. Members.

 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

This is the technical advice I have received. As far as the hon. Member for Chitambo is facing a peculiar problem, may the hon. Member for Chitambo ask a question.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, Mr Hakainde Hichilema …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

 

Mr Mutale: … is on record having told this nation that whoever shall come with information linking him to the sale of the mines or having gotten any money through the privatisation of the mines, he would offer that person a house. I would like to find out from the Vice-President how far we have gone with coming up with the inquiry into this matter because at some point, it was indicated that the Government will come up with an inquiry to investigate the privatisation of the mines because many of us have information to give to this inquiry about Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Before I invite Her Honour the Vice-President to respond, is the hon. Member for Chitambo able to authenticate now?

 

Mr Mutale: Sir, yes, I can when the inquiry is brought about.

 

Mr Speaker:  No, on the earlier part.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, it was in the media that …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Oder!

 

Hon. Member, resume your seat.

 

Mr Mutale resumed his seat.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order! The rest of the House, let us have some order!

 

The practice of the House, which we have repeatedly said, is not to draw in outsiders. The difficulty with that approach is that if what you are saying cannot be authenticated, it places our proceedings in a very awkward position, because the proceedings here, as we have repeatedly counseled, are immunised from inquiry by the courts. However, I will still give you another chance in case you still want to pursue the question.

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker:  Excluding! You may continue.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the Vice-President when she is going to give us as update on the inquiry on the privatisation of the mines where Mr Hakainde Hichilema …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mutale: … was involved.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Chitambo, I thought I had given sufficient guidance and latitude.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, we are in the middle of the Budget meeting and illicit financial flows and money laundering is inimical to effective budget execution. A manifestation of illicit financial flaws and money laundering at the heart of it right now are the forty-eight houses that apparently have mushroomed from the ground like mushrooms.

 

Sir, I would like to find out from the Vice-President what the Government is doing about the infamous – 

 

Mr Mwale: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development, resume your seat. This morning, I indicated that I do not allow points of order during this segment. Further, the point of order I allowed was on account of the fact that there could have been a problem with the recording system.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Do not engage me whilst sitted. The Clerks-at-the-Table are available. If you have concerns, convey them there. They will reach me.

 

May the hon. Member for Kabompo complete his question.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I was saying that we are in the middle of the Budget debate, discussion and approving the appropriations. Therefore, illicit financial flows, fraud and money laundering is inimical to the effective implementation and execution of the Budget. A manifestation of illicit financial flaws and money laundering at the heart of it and topical are the forty-eight houses, which are apparently seem to have grown out of the ground like mushrooms. I would like to find out from the Vice-President what the Government is doing to ensure justice prevails so that the citizens of this country can be given back their money which the alleged politically exposed persons have laundered in order …

 

Prof. Luo: Evidence!

 

Mr Lufuma: … for them to enrich themselves.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this notion that only politicians are involved in corruption cases may not be the true situation on the ground. This Government has done a lot in countering the malpractices in the public sector. The fact that the Financial Management Act has been put in place is an indication itself to show that the Government is determined to ensure there is no corruption in the handling of financial resources of this country.

 

Sir, further, investigations on the issue of the forty-eight houses have been ongoing and a report is being compiled. However, I would not go into detail regarding this case because the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is coming to the House to give a comprehensive report on the matter of the forty-eight houses.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mutaba (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, the Government is on record of promising the people of Mwandi Constituency and the Western Province, of rehabilitating the stretch between Kazungula and Sesheke. We have seen in Lusaka Province, Copperbelt Province and other areas that old roads are being rehabilitated and new roads are being constructed. The people of Mwandi Constituency are asking for just a stretch of 80 km. Would you give a specific time frame when the Government is going to move in and rehabilitate that stretch.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government has not abandoned the work on the Kazungula-Sesheke Road and the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development will update the House on the rehabilitation works to be undertaken.

 

I thank you, sir.

 

Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, between 2015 and 2016 the Patriotic Front (PF) Government commissioned solar milling plants throughout the country with the view of bringing mealie meal prices down to K35 and K 40 per bag. This was done at a huge cost. What has happened to these solar milling plants?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, most of the solar plants are functioning. When people operating them have maize, they definitely produce for the clients. I do not know whether the hon. Member is saying that the solar milling plants in his constituency are not working. I know that in most areas they are working. However, if this answer is not satisfactory, I will request the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry to inform the House on the state and operations of solar hammer mills.

 

I thank you, sir.

 

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, the drought and flood situation in many parts of this country and the resultant hunger has left many of our citizens starving. Those in rural areas are now begging for relief food. Those in urban areas can hardly afford to buy Mealie Meal because its price has escalated. In the past, in a situation like this, the Government would provide relief food for those in rural areas and those in compounds in urban areas, such as Bauleni, Solobon and Makululu, in Kabwe.

 

Mr Ngulube: Question!

 

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, the Government would provide food coupons because those in compounds depended on a good harvest in the rural areas for them to afford mealie meal, which has not happened. The lack of a good harvest in rural areas has led to interventions, such as those by the United Party for National Development (UPND) leader, to donate mealie-meal in Bauleni and Kafue, which unfortunately was stopped by Zambia Police. What measures is the Government putting in place, as it attempts to provide relief food to those in rural areas, to cushion those in compounds suffering because they can hardly afford mealie-meal unlike in the  olden days when there where food coupons? Do you have any interventional measures?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am wondering whether the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central Constituency was of age at the time the coupon system was introduced …

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: …because that system was done under different circumstances. However, there is an official system that the Government uses to channel all humanitarian relief support and that is through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). The DMMU is currently receiving support from various members of the public, cooperating partners, well wishers, and politicians. However, the way the hon. Members party wants to do its distribution is not normal. It is almost tantamount to corruption because it is using the backdoor to reach out to the people…

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubinda: and would promote gay rights.

 

The Vice-President: …and yet there is no reason why the party cannot make an announcement at the DMMU office that they want to distribute maize or mealie-meal in a particular manner. The DMMU will then accompany the party members who want to carry out the distribution because DMMU is in a position to know needy areas.

 

 Mr Speaker, the propensity that some of the leaders or politicians have to assume that they have presidential and executive powers to do certain things should not be allowed. There is a Government in place, headed by His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu…

 

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: …and this is a Government of Laws and we are following the Laws, including the DMMU Act.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, when it was time for the President of the United States of America (USA), Mr Donald Trump, to address the recently held United Nations General Assembly (UNGA), we saw the assembly hall getting filled to capacity. However, when it was time for African Presidents to do the same, we suddenly saw the Assembly hall turning empty. Is that experience a normal phenomenon or it had something to do with probably a protest against the recent xenophobic attacks in South Africa and also reprisal attacks from Nigeria and the Democratic Republic of Congo?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I did not get the Question.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Chimwemwe Constituency, repeat and summarise your question.

 

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I was saying that, when it was time for President Donald Trump to address the UNGA which was recently held in USA, we saw the assembly hall filled to capacity. However, when it was time for African Presidents to do the same, we suddenly saw people walking out of the assembly hall, leaving it empty. Was that experience a normal phenomenon at UNGA meetings or could it have been a protest against the recent xenophobic attacks experienced in South Africa and reprisal attacks seen in Nigeria and the Democratic Republic of Congo?

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Mr Speaker

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have attended quite a number of UNGA meetings. There is a big plenary area where all the members assemble, but there are quite a number of other meetings on the sidelines where –

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Your Honour the Vice-President, give me a minute. Hon. Members, can we conduct our business in a dignified fashion.

 

Dr Malama: Correct!

 

Mr Speaker: If you do not want Her Honour the Vice-President to respond, I can move on, but certainly, she will not respond in this kind of atmosphere. It is not a sign of respect. You have asked her a question, and she wants to respond, but you are murmuring. How can you have it both ways? Continue, your Honour the Vice-President.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I was just elaborating on the fact that all the countries are represented in the plenary at the UNGA meetings, but simultaneously, there are other side meetings in various halls. Even here at Parliament, we have Parliament sitting here and we have Committees going on. This is not peculiar to the National Assembly of Zambia. I do not think there was any boycott by anyone. All the members participate in the sideline meetings and may be missing from the main chamber at a particular time. I do not know about the issue of boycotting. People who have not been in that chamber may say so, but I think it is better if we learn more about these international institutions and how they conduct business.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the Office of the Vice-President commands the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). The issue of starvation and famine in Kalabo has escalated. Owing to the fact that relief food has to be distributed to all vulnerable homes, why is the Government not putting in extra funds towards the supply and distribution of food so it reaches far-flung areas like Mitwi, Lukona and Yeta instead of people walking a distance of 90 km just to pick a 12.5 kg from the Boma? Why is it that the Government cannot put extra funds for transport?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government has put in extra funds to undertake the distribution of relief food. For Kalabo District, the Government has engaged the Zambia National Service (ZNS). The Government is also using the DMMU’s big trucks to get to far-flung areas like Sikongo and other places that the hon. Member for Kalabo Central mentioned. The work is ongoing. We worry about the people not getting the relief food that the Government sends, but now we have put in measures to ensure that food reaches the intended beneficiaries.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Chali (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, a strong rumour circulating in Chingola over Vendata is that the delayed court processes and finding of a new investor are deliberate because Vendata is negotiating with the Government to come back under a different name. What is the Government position over this issue?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this Government is a Government of laws. We know that the case of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) is in court and the Government cannot interfere with the court processes. We will abide by the court outcome then after the court, the new investors will be identified and selected to participate in the management of the mines.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, will the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) consider drilling boreholes alongside the distribution of relief food because most boreholes have dried up and people are suffering?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the DMMU will collaborate with the Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection to ensure that boreholes are drilled. In fact, Kazungula is one of those areas that has benefitted from the drilling of communal water points through the Climate Resilient Programme.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, Monze-Niko Road is extensively dilapidated and it is slowly becoming a danger to the lives of our citizens in the constituency and also for the people of Namwala. When will the Government complete rehabilitating this road?

 

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would advise the hon. Member to visit the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development to get an update on the Monze-Niko Road. However, I just want to remind the hon. Member that the PF was being mocked by certain politicians that we shall not eat roads and yet the whole of this country is yearning for good roads so that our people can have access to services.

 

Dr Malama: Correct!

 

Mr Lubinda: Jack Mwiimbu!

The Vice-President: I hope that the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development will address the completion of the rehabilitation of the Monze-Niko road.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mrs Chinyama (Kafue): Mr Speaker, I commend the Government for distributing some mealie meal in Kafue last week, although it appears the exercise was undertaken because the Government had heard that Mr Hakainde Hichilema was expected to do the same thing.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kafue, please resume your seat. I have counselled before that we should not drag outsiders here. If you have a question for Her Honour the Vice-President, put it to her.

 

Mr Chinyama: Mr Speaker, what plans does the Government have to revive industries like Kafue Textiles of Zambia (KTZ) and support the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ)? Our people can sustain their families through these companies without relying on handouts from the Government. Handouts should be reserved for areas where they are critically needed.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not see the connection between industrialisation and relief food.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: However, if the hon. Member for Kafue is not keen on feeding her people, or the Government feeding her people, she can inform us so that those who wish to feed the people can do so.

 

Hon. Mr Lubinda: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: In earnest, the hon. Member knows that the Government has embarked on a programme to ensure that all areas that have been affected by hunger are fed, and that is exactly what the Government was doing in Kafue.

 

Sir, talking about resuscitating our industrial base, the Government has embarked on an industrial programme which is being undertaken by the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC). Industrialisation is part of the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP) because we know that through industrialisation jobs will be created and our people will not be disadvantaged as it is today.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

_______

 

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

MANGANGO FEEDER ROADS REHABILITATION

 

28. Mr Putu (Mangango) asked the Minister of Local Government:

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate feeder roads in Mangango Parliamentary Constituency;
2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
3. how many kilometres of the roads are earmarked for rehabilitation in 2019.

 

The Minister of Local Government (Dr Banda): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate feeder roads in Mangango Parliamentary Constituency.

 

Sir, the plans are being implemented. Two roads in Mangango are being procured through the Improved Rural Connectivity Project.

 

Sir, as earlier alluded to in (b), two roads from Mangango totaling 156.3 km have been advertised under the Improved Rural Connectivity Project. The roads were advertised on 21^st August, 2019, and the advert will run for three months. The two roads are:

 

1. 63.3 km of the Namapombwe/Mayukwayukwa Road; and
2. 93 km of Kalukundwe Road via Kasabi to Nalweyi.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, before Hon. Putu, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mangango Parliamentary Constituency joined Parliament, we saw the motivation from the Government of attempting to rehabilitate the same roads that have been asked about. Several months have passed since we saw graders and other construction equipment ferried to Mangango. That was done because there was an election. What happened to that motivation the Government had at that time? We are now being given promises. How can we trust the Government to implement this plan soon?

 

Dr Banda: Mr Speaker, I am not aware when graders were taken to Mangango Parliamentary Constituency. All I am aware of is that the roads have been procured and adverts are running for three months from 21^st August, 2019. Thereafter, the works will commence.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, as you know, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has performed very well in road infrastructure development.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Dr Malama: You can see that even hon. Members from the United Party for National Development (UPND) are questioning even when they can also see that the PF Government –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kanchibiya –

 

Dr Malama: Yes, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Just ask your question, you are now debating.

 

Dr Malama: Correct, Sir.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, I was just reminding the hon. Minister of Local Government that the PF Government has performed extremely well in road infrastructure development to the shame of some minority political parties.

 

Mr Speaker, the Rainy Season is coming, and the people are looking up to this performing Government to attend to these roads. Is the Ministry of Local Government considering to do spot improvements to ensure that those roads are passable and usable by our people in Kaoma and Mangango Parliamentary Constituency in particular?

 

Dr Banda: Mr Speaker, I assure the hon. Member and the rest of the House that it is the Government’s policy to work on feeder roads so that most of our rural areas are accessible for different purposes such commence, or any other activity that people may want to use the roads for.

 

Dr Malama: Correct.

 

Dr Banda: Mr Speaker, against this background, I must say that right now, as the Government, we have assigned five provinces to start the procurement process for feeder roads, and this is going to be done in a phased manner. After the roads in the first five provinces have had their roads procured and works have started, we will embark on procuring roads in the other five provinces. The whole essence is to work on feeder roads throughout the country.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Malama: Correct!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Mr Speaker, what period has been projected for this procurement process to be finalised?

 

Dr Malama: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, and the hon. Minister of Religious Affairs and National Guidance.

 

Mr Speaker, you know very well that this country is a Christian nation. There is a political party in this country that has aligned itself with a consortium or an organisation called the African Liberal Network. This organisation has forty-seven political parties in thirty countries including Zambia, whose aim is to usher in those political parties into power. Amongst many other activities, it also supports minority rights and to be specific, gay rights.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, the evidence is very bare. When you check on the Africa Liberal Network page, you will find that a certain political party, namely the United Party for National Development (UPND) in Zambia, is mentioned. In Botswana, one party called the Botswana Movement for Democracy (BMD) is also mentioned. When this party in Botswana pushed and got gay rights to be supported, it also mentioned that its sister parties such as the UPND should be assisted to decriminalise gay rights.

 

Sir, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and our beloved sister, the hon. Minister of Religious Affairs and National Guidance in order to remain quiet on such a serious issue that affects the people of Kanchibiya, Bweengwa, Nalolo and Milanzi?

 

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that if there are certain questions or issues you would like the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and the hon. Minister of Religious Affairs and National Guidance to account for, put a question. Ask them a question, and they will come and account here.

 

The hon. Member for Manyinga may continue.

 

Mr Lihefu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the good update. What period has the Government projected to finalise the procurement processes so that even the people of the North-Western Province in Manyinga will benefit from this good project?

 

Dr Banda: Mr Speaker, the procurement period is always three months. As I have said, we are procuring roads for five provinces now because the money available can only cater for five provinces. Immediately after we have done this procurement and we are able to raise another lot of finances, we will be able to indicate as to when we can advertise for another procurement period of three months for the remaining five provinces. It will depend on the availability of funds.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: I will take the last four interventions from the hon. Members for Katombola, Sioma, Mitete and Kasenengwa.

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the issue of feeder roads in the constituencies is important to many of us, including the people of Mangango. Other than constituencies or districts having their own initiative of procuring equipment, is there any Government policy that is going to shape the way constituencies can acquire equipment which can deal with their feeder roads as and when need arises?

 

Dr Banda: Mr Speaker, feeder roads are a preserve of the Ministry of Local Government, whereas township roads are under the constituencies. There is no policy right now to shift the works on feeder roads to constituencies. Feeder roads are the preserve of the Ministry of Local Government. Even when finances for feeder roads are sourced, the supervision of the construction of these roads will be done by the Ministry of Local Government and not the constituencies.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Ms Subulwa (Sioma): Mr Speaker, before I ask my question, allow me to just wish the teachers in Sioma and countrywide a happy Teachers’ Day.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Subulwa: Mr Speaker, it is gratifying to hear that the Ministry of Local Government intends to rehabilitate some feeder roads. Sioma, like Mangango, is also affected. Is the hon. Minister in a position to avail us a plan of how many kilometres he intends to rehabilitate in Sioma and Mangango?

 

Dr Banda: Mr Speaker, yes, I am in a position to avail the hon. Member the information on how many kilometres we shall work on in Sioma. The information is already with the ministry because it asked all the district councils countrywide to submit which roads they wanted the ministry to work on in the feeder roads programme. I have the information for all the districts that have already applied.

                                                                 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete):  Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that he was not aware of the equipment that was mobilised in Mangango prior to the by-election that saw Hon. Putu come to this House. The Government mobilised equipment for feeder roads, including the Katunda Road but after the by-election, the equipment was demobilised. Now, the hon. Minister is saying that the Ministry is in the process of mobilising procurement, but after the by-election in Mangango and Kaoma, the equipment was no longer there. Is there any hope that these two feeder roads shall be worked on?

 

Dr Banda: Mr Speaker, I want to assure the hon. Member that if at all there had been mobilisation of equipment in Mangango, it was not a local government project. We are not aware of that. I repeat: We are not aware of that.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr S. Banda (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for clarification over this matter of feeder roads. In his explanation, he indicated that construction of feeder roads will be done in phases. Obviously, in Phase 1, feeder roads in five provinces will be worked on. He also mentioned that the procurement process is three months. When does the ministry envisage construction of feeder roads to start in Phase I, in the five provinces?

 

Dr Banda: Mr Speaker, procurement is a process. We cannot start work without procurement because we may not know what is required on the ground. So, we have a three months period to do the procurement. Immediately after the procurement has been done, we expect that construction should begin.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

________

 

 

MOTION

 

BUDGET 2020

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mr Machila (Magoye): Mr Speaker, today, I will start by looking at the allocation to the agricultural sector. In view of climate change and the hardships that arise from its negative impact, there was need for the hon. Minister of Finance to allocate more money to the agricultural sector. If more money was allocated than the case is now, it would have meant that extension services would have been enhanced through teaching and explaining to small scale farmers the methods and technologies that would be befitting during this time of a change in climate. As the situation now is, extension services in the agricultural sector are very poor.

 

Sir, when you look at the infrastructure that houses extension officers, most of it is in a state of disrepair. When it comes to programmes that affect the agricultural sector, you will find that there is a lot of disorder. I have the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) in mind. In the last farming season, farmers made their down payments under FISP, but it took long for it to be actualised and to get the money from the Government. As a result, farmers got their inputs very late. Some of them got their inputs as late as March this year. Some farmers in Magoye Constituency never got their inputs at all because the Government owed agro-dealers a lot of money. Agro-dealers at some point decided not to attend to small scale farmers because the Government was not paying them.

 

Mr Speaker, the challenge was, because of the delayed payments to the agro-dealers by the Government, farmers delayed in getting their inputs and, consequently, planted late. The result is the severe shortage of food. Had extension services been much better, extension officers would have alerted the farmers on the best varieties and the best time to plant. This could have assisted the situation.

 

Mr Speaker, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance to allocate more money to the Ministry of Agriculture because it employs a lot of our people. It can generate greater growth of the economy. However, with the agricultural sector not doing very well because of poor extension services, it means that the general growth at the national level would be negative.

 

Mr Speaker, I will touch a bit on education. The allocation to the education sector is not inspiring. Since the coming into power of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, the allocation to the Ministry of General Education has been reducing, and yet we know very well that education is an equaliser and an enabler. In the era of Information and Communication Technologies (ICTs) and changes in climate, we needed to inject more funds in education so that we bring in ideas of how we are going to fit in the changing environment and world.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Machila: Sir, yesterday, I heard someone debating that we have university graduates that are roaming the streets. Times have changed. Some of those graduates that were produced using the old curriculum cannot answer to the demands of the current job market. There is need to change so that we change the way we are carrying out our education system so that it answers to the demands of the current world.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Machila: However, we need to emphasise more on blue collar instead of white collar jobs. You cannot be training people to become managers when managers are already there. You train people in order to be innovative and in some way become prospective employers. What the Government needs to do is to put more money in education and put all the ideas there.

 

We need a very serious change of the mindset in the way we approach things in the world and in this country in particular. If we do not inject more money in the education sector, it will be very difficult to change the mindset of a Zambian because, ordinarily, people train to be employed and when there is no employment, they become street walkers.

 

For example, the Government is not showing commitment to this sector. In 2018, the budgetary allocation was at 16 per cent and in 2019 it was at 15 per cent, while in 2020 it is at 12 per cent. If you want to develop this country, the only system that can unlock or generate development is the education sector. If the PF Government was serious, it should have put more money in education because education is an equaliser and an enabler. I expected the hon. Minister of Finance to do this.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice to the Budget Address that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance under the theme ‘Focusing national priorities towards stimulating the domestic economy’.

 

Sir, firstly, I want to say that there can be no better Budget than this one.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

Mr Ngulube: The Budget presented by the hon. Minister of Finance clearly sets out the parameters which the PF Government has identified. I know that the reading culture of this House is still as bad as it was last week. If people had read through this Budget, they would have realised that the hon. Minister has actually critically analysed the different sectors and compared the Zambian situation to the global situation. You cannot say this is a bad Budget if you have not read it.

 

For example, in paragraph 22, where he talks about Budget performance, the hon. Minister has clearly stated that:

 

“Sir, export earnings, at US$4.0 billion, were 14.7 per cent lower than US$4.6 billion realised over the same period in 2018. Copper export earnings declined by 22.0 per cent to US$2.8 billion from US$3.5 billion, following a decline in both export volumes and copper prices.”

 

How can you expect the export of copper to go up? How can you expect the Government to raise more money from taxes realised from the mines if the copper prices have gone down and the copper reserves are declining? I think we must be very sincere to this House and the nation at large as we debate this very important document.

 

Mr Speaker, in paragraph 53, the hon. Minister of Finance talked about energy and stated that:

 

“Mr Speaker, the energy sector has been adversely affected by climate change especially in the second half of 2019. This has widened the electricity deficit in the country thereby negatively affecting business operations and communities due to increased hours of load shedding.”

 

How can somebody say that the Government is not sincere and has done nothing about load shedding when in actual fact we are all aware that it is a climate change issue? How do you expect electricity from Lake Kariba when the water is drying up?

 

Sir, in the same vein, the people who are criticising the National Budget have come up with their own document, which they are calling an alternative budget. With your permission, allow me to make reference to a few paragraphs that have actually been highlighted by a man called Mr Hakainde Hichilema (HH), who is the president of the United Party for National Development (UPND). In paragraph 6, he is admitting and saying:

 

“The international economy remains quite constrained due to emerging protectionist foreign policies in major global economic players, climate change and humanitarian challenges in some parts of the world. However, this world economy continues to grow at an estimated 3.5 per cent in 2019 …”

 

Sir, he is actually admitting that there is climate change. In the so-called alternative budget as compared to the Budget presented by the hon. Minister of Finance, the hon. Members of the UPND, who have been criticising and accusing the Government of heavily taxing the citizens, are proposing to kill the economy of Zambia. How are they going to kill it? Allow me to demonstrate.

 

In paragraph 8 of the alternative budget presented by HH (Hakainde Hichilema), he is proposing to reduce the wages and salaries of civil servants and everybody else. HH (Hakainde Hichilema) does not understand that when he talks about a further 50.1 per cent on Civil Service emoluments, leaving 9.9 per cent for social and productive sector spending, you cannot reduce a salary because you want to save money, it will be illegal. When the hon. Members of the UPND party come into power and they attempt to do this, they will end up in court.

 

Secondly, in their own alterative budget, they are also targeting small businesses. They are saying that they want people in the markets, even those who crush stones, to start paying Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE). We are aware that PAYE is 30 per cent. How do you expect a person who just crushes stones or drives a wheelbarrow to start contributing taxes to the economy of Zambia? However, the PF hon. Members in their Budget have not raised any taxes and have not proposed reducing anybody’s salary. So, we want to warn the people that hon. Members of the UPND are not well intended. When they come into power or if they will ever do, they will damage the economy of this country.

 

In paragraph 25, HH (Hakainde Hichilema) talks about direct taxes and PAYE and says:

 

“For instance running a quarry, that indeed needs specialised equipment but as long as we do contract discrimination we can capture the informal economy and slowly bring them in the into the main economy from where we can benefit from PAYE. In this case we propose the following bands:”

 

How can you expect somebody who is crushing stones with a hammer in the sun to start contributing PAYE? We would like to tell him that the people of Zambia are happy with the low taxes they are paying. The UPND should not stand on this platform and tell the people that the Government is punishing them. That is why the PF has deliberately left out all those people in the markets. This document was done by somebody who was misinformed. If HH (Hakainde Hichilema) was aware that people in the markets pay proper transfer tax, what are called domestic taxes –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, resume your seat.

 

Mr Ngulube resumed his seat.

 

Mr Speaker: You see, you have a document that you are referring to, which of course was tabled. There was a point of order and it was admitted. What you should do now is focus to on the contents, and the ideas contained in that document.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

 

Mr Speaker: I have been counseling you on this point about bringing in individuals or an individual, because the pattern is consistent. You are not even talking about several individuals here, but you are just talking about one individual. Preoccupy yourself with ideas not personalities.

 

You may continue hon. Member for Kabwe Central.

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for your counsel. I am going to compare the two budgets using the ideas and remove the name that I was mentioning.

 

Mr Speaker, I was talking about direct taxes, there is a proposal or a counter offer, in paragraph 26, which says: “We proposed these reductions so that the economy can be reignited ...”. According to our hon. Colleagues on your left, they want small businesses to be paying corporate and manufacturing taxes. However, in the document of the hon. Minister of Finance, which was presented on the Floor of this House, he had not made any such adjustments. This is because the PF Government is aware that the economy is not doing well due to climatic conditions, which have reduced the number of hours that factories are operating. How can somebody propose that they are going to raise taxes in an economy where there is load shedding?

 

Sir, I am also going to highlight, because the people must know, what is contained in the gloried alterative document. According to them, they propose to increase corporate and business taxes. They are also targeting to follow the mines saying the mines are not paying enough taxes. We want to advise them that the Zambian economy, from independence, has been strongly dependant on copper. So anybody who threatens that he is going to grab the mines and increase their taxes is going to damage this economy. We are also aware that half of the power that the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) generates from Kariba, Kafue Gorge, Itezhi-tezhi and everywhere else goes to the mines. So any threats to the mines should be a wake-up call to the people of Zambia, who probably might have been thinking that the UPND might become an alternative Government. We challenge them to come and explain why they are targeting the mines.

 

Mr Speaker, in comparison with our own Budget, the same people who accuse the PF Government of having failed to protect the economy are here, in their document, targeting customs and exercise duty in paragraph 10. For example, they are talking about car dealers and people who wash cars.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: It is the dealers.

 

Mr Ngulube: As far as we concerned, this is another source of revenue where the Government does not fully realise the full potential, especially that most of the cross-border trade is informal. They are targeting cross-border traders without realising that cross-border traders pay taxes.

 

Sir, speaking as a cross-border trader, myself, when I arrive at the airport, my bags are searched. The Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) will count how many items I have brought in and they will allow me to collect my bags only after I have paid. So, this is an act of ignorance. It shows that the so-called economic manager, who claims to be a better leader than President Lungu and who claims of fixing the economy, does not know how the cross-border trading is done. Therefore, we want to tell him that so far the people of Zambia are happy with what the Government has provided.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: Targeting small scale businesses would be to just finish off the already damaged economy. The Zambian economy has been suffering and everybody knows that this Government is doing everything possible to mitigate the damage that has been caused by a lot of factors, including lack of electricity.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Ngulube: In paragraph 34, instead of shouting at me, you are threatening –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, there is no need for that.

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker I thank you for the guidance. May peace be with me.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ngulube: In paragraph 34 of the UPND’s alternative budget, our hon. Colleagues have threatened to ban the use of second hand tyres because they cause accidents. What we want to tell them is that the people who use second hand tyres in Zambia will not vote for them in 2021 because as far as we concerned, this is a threat to the economy.

 

Mr Speaker, the whole of this alternative budget by the hon. Members of UPND does not contain any figures or percentages. It does not even contain any proposals of how they intend to raise money or how much they are going to borrow on the basis of ignorance. The ignorance of our friends in the UPND will kill them.

 

Sir, allow me to return to our document –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

 

[MADAM SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, it is very worrying that the people who prepared an alternative budget have exhibited a lot of ignorance about how a Government is run. For example, in paragraph 15 of their alternative budget, somebody is proposing that they halt the creation of new districts. These are the districts that the PF has already created to help the people of Zambia reduce the distances between towns. Somebody is saying that he wants to halt this process and reverse it. It is not possible because the law is very clear. Once a district is created, it is permanent. You can only merge it or create another province. So, this alternative budget is a demonstration that we are in trouble because the UPND does not know and may never know how to govern, because this is a threat.

Madam Speaker, from the debaters that have attacked the Government, they have not shown what wrong is in this address by the hon. Minister of Finance. How has the hon. Minister of Finance threatened anybody’s job or to increase taxes? In the alternative budget somebody is threatening to reduce salaries of civil servants. He is even saying he will reduce the number of hon. Ministers, remove some Permanent Secretaries and make sure that in the civil service, if you are not a professional, you must leave. Meaning that, there will be serious victimisation. People will be fired under what they are calling administrative reforms.

 

Madam Speaker, we need to state that this is a wakeup call for the people of Zambia. If a person does not realise that a national budget (the alternative budget) is a sign of what would happen when they get into power. This alternative budget is a threat to the people of Zambia and they must watch out.

 

Madam Speaker, I also want to state that the PF has demonstrated that,in all the five pillars of the Budget Address by the hon. Minister of Finance, they have a touch on what is going on – they live in reality. Our brothers do not appear to have understood exactly what the National Budget is otherwise they would not have been supporting the alternative budget.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me as I wind down, to state that somebody is threatening, in their alternative budget, that second hand tyres will not be allowed in Zambia. We know that most of us Zambians import second hand vehicles. Meaning that when HH becomes president and you import a second hand vehicle -

 

Hon. PF Members: Where?

 

Mr Ngulube: Okay, let me say…

 

Mr Mundubile: God forbid.

 

Mr Ngulube: God forbid HH becomes president and you import a second hand vehicle –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I am sure that after three years in the House, you know the rules. The hon. Mr Speaker stressed this point earlier.

 

Withdraw that reference to that individual and continue with your debate.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, I withdraw reference to Hakainde Hichilema and replace it with UPND. God forbid!Should UPND ever get into power, the people who are importing second hand vehicles in Zambia will be punished because, in their own alternative budget, they are saying, when you import a second-hand vehicle and you are at Nakonde Border, you have to buy brand new tyres and put them on your car.

 

Mr Lubinda: Ha!

 

Mr Ngulube: Afterwards, that is when you will be allowed to proceed to Lusaka. Is that a kind of political party people should expect to be in power in 2021?

 

Hon. PF Members: No!

 

Mr Ngulube: The answer is, no.

 

Hon. PF Members: No!

 

Mr Lubinda: Shame!

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, nowhere, not even in Japan have they banned vehicles from using second hand tyres. A second-hand vehicle, automatically has second hand tyres! So, how do you say, a car can be second hand, but the tyres must be brand new?

 

Mr Lubinda: Kuwayawayafye!

 

Mr Ngulube: This shows that there is serious ignorance and poverty of knowledge.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I know that this has been allowed perhaps, we should have been a bit more alert, the word, ignorance or ignorant, is actually unparliamentary.

 

Hon. Member, continue with your debate bearing that guidance in mind.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, I withdraw ignorance and replace it with a poverty of knowledge…

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: …a desert of knowledge or malnutrition of knowledge.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, allow me to say also that there are serious contradictions in this particular document from the UPND. How can, on one hand, they propose that they will raise all the taxes even include people who do not pay taxes.

 

Mr Musukwa: Ema Lawyer aya!

 

Mr Ngulube: Now, it is clear that they do not know how a Government operates. Under our law, you cannot impose a tax to punish anybody. If the UPND was aware, this alternative budget would have moderated the language they are using. As far as we are concerned, even a hon. Minister of Finance cannot just wake up and say, I am imposing a tax on taxi drivers or a tax on stone crushers. It is a collective process. First of all, there must be consultationsand that is why the PF Government had to put aside the Sales Tax. The hon. Minister of Finance went around the country heard the complaints and concerns of the people and decided to follow what the people want. That is a good Government. In their alternative budget, they are proposing that they will start cleaning the civil service. What is going to happen to people that were already employed in the civil service before this proposed Government comes into power, it means there will be serious victimisation.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to repeat that cross border traders that the UPND is targeting, pay tax. They contribute to the national treasury. Most of us have small accounts and we pay turnover tax. Ask the ZRA, at every border point, people go on their own to pay. Now we can even pay through the phone. The hon. Minister rightly put it in his budget, there is now anelectronic platform for National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and Zambia revenue Authority (ZRA). NAPSA has even stopped receiving cash. Meaning the Government electronic platforms are working properly. So, to start demonising all the positives that the PF have done –if the word shame was not unparliamentary, I would have used it.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ngulube: However, I want to say, in paragraph 56 of the hon. Ministers …

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Now, that you have used the word, can you withdraw it.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, I withdraw my threat to use the word shame and replace it with embarrassment.

 

Madam Speaker, paragraph 56 of the Budget that the Minister of Finance presented states that to Enhance transparency and accountability in public resource delivery Government will continue rolling out electronic platforms, which include; National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) and Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA). So, whoever drafted this alternative budget which they gave to someone to present to the Nation must apologise to the people of Zambia and to person who presented it, because if it were me, I would not have done such a document and given it to someone to look very ugly. At the end of the day, we cross boarder traders and people who drive second hand vehicles in Zambia are scared.

 

Mr Speaker, every person who is lowly ranked according to them, if one does not have a degree and is a civil servant, they will come and fire them. The United Party for National Development (UPND) is threatening the peace of this country by saying that they are going to cancel the districts that have already been created. It is a sign that this man will become a dictator, or when the UPND comes into power, it is going to ruin the lives of the people of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, in conclusion allow me to declare this alternative 2020 budget a National disaster and a danger to the people of Zambia. I also want to say that there is no society that leaves without the uneducated, and this elitist proposal that the UPND are putting up is the one that is even forcing them now to go and start looking for money from gays and lesbians. The gays of the world will never rule here in Zambia and this will make it difficult for them. Come 2020, no gay supporter will go to State House.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear hear!

 

Mr A Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker thank you very much for this opportunity that you have given me, to add the voice of Kantanshi to this very important debate which deals with our National Budget. I would like to start by quoting the Minister of Finance, on page 23 paragraph No. 146 and he says,

 

“Sir, it cannot be business as usual”

 

Madam Speaker, indeed we are in a time that Zambians have got a lot of anxiety and employment is not coming as fast as it should, opportunities for the Zambian people are not as fast as they should, but it is important for us to remember that these are normal economic cycles and therefore, they provide a platform for us to refocus, to re-think through and come up with solutions so that we are to provide these opportunities for our people.

 

Madam Speaker let me start by thanking Government’s plan to immediately start dismantling the local debt. I think the local debt has given us a lot of challenges. Speaking on behalf of small businesses that are unable to continue getting facilities from banks like, overdrafts, but continue to pay their workers on time – the move by the Government to start dismantling debt, especially for domestic companies, should be highly commended. In turn, we expect that the business environment will start changing, the flow of money will increase, and the banks will again start respecting small businesses. It is also clear that small businesses play a very important role in trying to ensure that an economy that is trying to grow small businesses plays the role of being lubricants, to ensure that the engine of economic growth continues, therefore, this must be commended.

 

Madam speaker, Government has mentioned that on all foreign contracts that will be provided, 20 per cent should be awarded to Zambians. I think that the Government should have gone further by ensuring that in sectors where we spend a lot of money like Ministry of Health, similar policies should be crafted We know that Zambia is not a manufacturing country because most of our products are imports, and therefore, they should have been a mechanism to try and ensure that we live or we start creating capacity among the Zambians. For instance, individuals that are trading in medicines become distributors and later on start representing companies that are dotted all over the world, particularly from India and china where we are getting most of our drugs. That will reduce pressure on our kwacha.

 

 

Madam Speaker, on Agriculture, the Government has been urged to spend more money on agriculture for us to promote food security, but looking at previous Budgets, monies that have been allocated through Food Input Support Programme (FISP). You will find that even now we are proposing to spend K1.1 billion just on the FISP programme and Food Reserve Agency (FRA). Another K600 million to buy the maize and at the end of the day, you get a product called mealie meal costing the tax payer who had put in money through the treasury, almost K150. Looking at the investment Government is making by buying milling plants like Superior Milling and Mushe Milling, and establishment of Solar Milling Plants, one begs an answer as to why we continuously spend this money yet the price of mealie meal is still high. I think the Minister of Finance needs to start interrogating these figures, so that it is not just a question of putting money in agriculture. The entire value chain needs to be carefully looked at so that we start having mealie meal at a cheaper cost. Mealie meal should not even cost more than K50 looking at the millions of dollars that Government has invested in the solar milling plants.

 

Madam Speaker, more should be done under FRA instead of just buying maize as a strategic reserve for our country. I think that they are better placed to even export this maize and to mill this maize because government companies are there. They have got Correctional Service in Kabwe, a huge investment that Government put in. Additionally, there is another project in Petauke that is on the cards to try and mitigate the price of mealie meal. Therefore there is enough information and investment that can actually reduce the price of mealie meal.

 

Madam Speaker, I also thought about the Parastatal companies. We have about 45 State owned companies with only 15 being profitable.  Of those 15, only eight declared dividends to Government which to me was a source of concern because companies are supposed to support Government in terms of creating employment and business opportunities for the people. So if we have such a large number of companies that are not performing or even contributing to statutory obligations like NAPSA, Workers Compensation Fund Control Board, and ZRA, you will find that it is the people of Zambia that will continue to be squeezed for more taxes to be collected. The Ministry of Finance should quickly look into this and come up with ideas on how we can turn these companies around to become profitable, and contribute more to our economy by support the agenda of job creation.

 

Madam Speaker, you will find that the mining sector, in my opinion, seems to have a lot of mismatch in terms of how it is contributing to our economy. On one hand, citizens are supporting it through the subsidies of electricity. I have been labouring this point for a long time. Zambians are paying 3 cents per kilowatt hour. On the other hand, Zambians do not even have any business in the mines because they cannot even claim more than 3 per cent in terms of conducting business with the mines. Furthermore, you would find the same sector is on top of the list of requesting for the Value Added Tax (VAT) refunds. At the same time, they are saying they are making a loss. So, how are they bringing in equipment yet they continue making losses? Lastly, they do not even declare any dividends to the Government. All this is lost revenue.

 

I hope that the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development through the mine charters or similar bodies would be able to come up with something similar to the 20 per cent which is being talked about under infrastructure so that people who are doing business with  the mines will have a guarantee. Mines spend almost US$1.5 billion for operations and businesses which are carried out abroad in countries such as South African, Australia, or Netherlands that are benefiting, leaving our people with literally nothing. Therefore, it is my hope that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development will come up with something.

 

Madam, let me now move to the Ministry of Energy. The Ministry of Energy told us that the cost reflective study will soon be implemented. I only discovered that last year, there a company called Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) from the United Kingdom (UK) was carrying out a similar study, but abandoned the works at 80 per cent. So, I hope the hon. Minister will be able to share with us what happened instead of us contracting a concessional loan from African Development Bank (ADB) to finance the study. Further, I would also like to urge the Government to go back to the 600 megawatt (MW) project which is currently under suspension. This will enable us get the 600 MW within the next eighteen months because it will be quicker and cheaper for the Government. In addition, it will also provide stable electricity.

 

Madam, we would also want to see things like the developments agreement, the purchase agreement and the implementation agreement in this sector because they are speeded up by the Government. When we had the first challenge of load shedding in 2015, all the things we are talking emanated from there. Things like the Multi-Facility Economic Zones (M-FEZ) Projects, Gate Switch Project and ideas of energy mix. However, when the rains came, we shelved everything. Now, here we are again about to start spending US$21 million a month when, if we had continued for four years, we would be in a better position. Just like the concessions which have been given under energy.

Madam Speaker, we can import a gas stove or solar geyser at tax free. We should have been encouraging all this four years ago. By now, we would be in a better position.

 

Madam Speaker, I can end by encouraging the hon. Minister of Finance to probably look at other ways of raising finance as opposed to putting so much tax pressure on people. I hope that figures that have been presented in the budget like the Housing Project worth K247.9 million announced in the budget will be taken to rural areas since the Government has already started constructing hospitals and schools. They should now start building houses which are climate friendly and will be able to stand the test of time.

 

With those few words, I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate on the Budget Speech. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the hon. Minister of Finance for presenting the 2020 Budget.

 

Madam, from the outset, I would like to go straight to paragraph 8 where he said:

 

“All of us, the public sector, the private sector, civil society and every Zambian are therefore called to focus our priorities towards building the Zambia, we want. The time to act is now! Our resolve is to do so must be firm.”

 

Madam, to be firm in the Patriotic Front (PF), one will be an enemy.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: If the hon. Minister wants to do the correct thing, he will become an enemy to most of the people in the PF.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: They have never been firm. I say so because many budgets have been passed through this House under the PF Government, but hon. Ministers of Finance have not been firm in releasing funds to meet the needs of the people. Firstly, I would like to begin with Parliament. The hon. Ministers of Finance have not been firm on the disbursement of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), money to the ministries or to exactly follow what is in the document.

 

Evg. Shabula: Correct!

 

Mr Muchima: Madam, I know the new hon. Minister of Finance is coming from a very high disciplined institution, the Bank of Zambia. People there are firm. If he wants to be unpopular, he should be firm. As far as we are concerned on this side of the House, we would like him to be firm. We would like him to actualise the budget. Your colleagues on the right, have taken business as usual.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Question!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: Madam, let me come to areas of revenue collection like the bus stops and Soweto market in particular. The money collected from that market ends up in the pockets of cadres. If the hon. Minister will be firm, I can assure him that he is going to collect a lot of money from that bus stop which is supposed to come to the councils. There is a lot of money which is realised from that market.

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to stand on a point of order.

 

Madam, is the statement by the hon. Member on the Floor that the money from the markets is ending up in the hands of the PF cadres verifiable or does he have the evidence to lay on the Table? If he does not, it is my submission and prayer that he should be ruled out of order. Is he in order, therefore, to raise assertions without verifiable evidence or facts? I seek you serious ruling on this matter.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member for Ikeleng’i will take that point of order into account as he debates. You may continue, hon. Member for Ikeleng’i

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, it is common sense that the hon. Minister of Local Government has been on the Floor of the House stating that the first person one will see when they go to Inter City Bus Station is a cadre demanding to be paid before one jumps on a bus. This is what I am talking about. The PF cadres are everywhere, unless one does not know or go to bus stations. People like us who go to bus stations know that the PF Party has been hijacked by cadres. Some of them have even more powers than the Deputy Government Chief Whip.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

 Mr Muchima: Madam, I am augmenting this dispute because I want the hon. Minister of Finance to be firm and disciplined in order for him to follow what he is proposing in the budget. Some people were lamenting about the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). I wish to state that there was discipline in the MMD. There was a lot of discipline and that was why we built on the reserves. We did not run to create districts. I am saying the time of the MMD; I belong to the United Party for National Development (UPND) now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, as I hear from –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

That is why you must debate through the Chair.

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, many of us were MMD and UPND, but we have interchanged. Some of them are now PF, who I know they were senior members in the UPND. One of them is even looking at me curiously.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam, three years ago we stood on the Floor of the House telling the current Government that it was broke but they were denying! Today, the Government is talking about climate change and coffers are completely dry. However, they now want to put climate change as a caveat. I want to dispute that and say that it is because of the management style. If they can champion discipline, the monies they are talking about will be become available. This was demonstrated by the late President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, may his soul rest in peace. He did that by disciplining his people. Those of us who were in his Government were so scared to misuse Government resources and the people out there.    

 

However, in the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, there is so much impunity. They don’t even worry about whoever is there. That is why today, we have the forty-eight houses without ownership. There is too much corruption!

 

Madam Speaker, the Budget will make sense if the hon. Minister of Finance will stand firm and call a spade a spade. He should be able to pay the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in good time. He should also support schools by helping them pay for educational facilities. I am happy that a Motion was brought on the Floor of this House about the reality of the sanitation environment for girls in schools. These are the decisions we should be making. How do we fund such decisions within the Budget? Can we contribute a K200 out the CDF towards helping girls in schools, for example? We need a research on that.

 

Madam Speaker, we have a lot of potential and resources in Zambia, but we lack an effective management style. We have a lot of water in lakes such as Lake Tanganyika, Lake Bangweulu and many more we can utilise to drive our economy. There are countries that are in deserts but they are managing their economies firmly. However, in Zambia, all we are talking about is climate change. Luapula Province and the North-Western Province have plenty of water. We have not exploited our resources to drive the economy. We are using climate change as an excuse. Today, we are talking about having only 9.9 per cent from our Budget left as discretionary expenditure. How do we come out of that?

 

Madam Speaker, the Government keeps saying that climate change is the reason for state of our economy. The population is increasing and children are crying because of hunger. A child who is crying because of hunger will not listen to the reasons the Government is giving because children want food. The people in the Government chose to come into power to provide services and goods to the people. Therefore, they should not use climate change as an excuse for their failure. If they have failed, they should resign tomorrow and let others come in who can run this country efficiently. I am happy that the hon. Minister of Finance has worked at different levels. He has been a councillor, Permanent Secretary (PS) and chief executive of institutions like Bank of Zambia (BoZ), where there is discipline. Now, he is an hon. Member of Parliament. He should bring discipline to this Government, and if discipline will be his focus, I shall say “congratulations.”

 

Madam Speaker, I come from the North-Western Province, the land of plenty. I will say that this Budget is useless because we do not get anything out of the Budgets of the PF Government ever since it came into power.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Ikeleng’i, withdraw the word ‘useless’.

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word “useless” and replace it with “useful.” These Budgets have not been useful; they have not yielded anything at all. The people of the North-Western Province have become poorer. Look at the road from Chisasa to Mwiniluga, it is in a bad state, yet minerals come from the province. Even the gold the Government is talking about is in that province. Everything is plenty in that province.

 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about tourism. The source of the Zambezi River is in the North-Western Province. Roads leading to that place are supposed to be in good condition to promote tourism, which is key, yet there is completely nothing. The Government is supposed to be building airdromes and roads to attract tourism in that place, but there is completely nothing. We should now be looking at alternatives of how we can improve this 9.9 per cent. Let me drink some water.

 

Mr Mung’andu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this pint of order.

 

Madam Speaker, one of the requirements for debaters in this august House is that they should bring out factual information. We all know that Parliament proceedings are now live on television. Is the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i debating in order to mislead not only this august House but Zambians out there who are watching, that this Government has taken nothing to the North-Western Province? Is he in order to say that this working Government has taken nothing to the people of the North-Western Province including Ikeleng’i, when he knows that the Chingola/Solwezi Road was constructed by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government?

 

Madam Speaker, there is a mini hydro power station which was commissioned by the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) in his constituency which is benefiting more than 12,000 people. Many districts in the Western Province have been connected to the national grid by the PF Government. Is he in order to be misleading the people out there?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: To the extent that the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i is free to express his opinion on matters of development, he is in order.

 

You may continue with you debate, hon. Member for Ikeleng’i.

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, thank you for protecting me and giving me an opportunity to drink water.

 

Madam Speaker, as hon. Members of Parliament, we should know our geographical position. The hon. Member of Parliament for Chama South talked about a hydro power station which is somewhere else and claimed that it is in Ikeleng’i. The hon. Member of Parliament does not even know where Ikeleng’i is yet he is representing people in Parliament. Iyee geography!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, we have so much potential in this country. We have resources such as water, minerals, land and many other things where we can channel investment to give us money, but we are doing that. We are just singing the usual song. We have been told that the 2020 Budget is K106,007,612,236, but in reality, the Budget is about K56 billion when it comes to releasing funds. As I speak, most of the hon. Ministers are not happy with the Ministry of Finance because it has not released the funds. The Government decided to abolish user fees in schools, but today, as I speak, there is no chalk in most schools. Schools cannot even pay security guards because the Government has not released money to them. This is real. It is happening. We have to reinvest in research. I am speaking from experience. The hon. Minister for the North-Western Province is looking at me and smiling. I am moving from point to point. I know what is happening.

 

Madam Speaker, we have plenty of water and minerals in the North-Western Province, can the people in the Government deny that? We are a land of plenty in terms of resources in the North-Western Province, but the people in that province are the poorest in this country. The PF Budgets have had no impact on the people in that province. I have given an example of the CDF. The CDF used to be released regularly during the MMD Government. It was given every year. I used to be with the hon. Minister of Justice on the left side in this Parliament, this is my third term The PF Government is broke at the moment –

 

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker:  A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, you know that I have been provoked to rise on this point of order. Is that hon. Member who is struggling to make head or tail of what he wants to say, in order to only limit his statement and reference to me the fact that we used to sit together at the Backbench without him also declaring the fact that when he was a member of the MMD, he acted as a mercenary and filtered information –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister of Justice, withdraw the word ‘mercenary’ and state your point of order.     

 

Mr Lubinda: I withdraw the word ‘mercenary’ and replace it with ‘agent’. Is he in order not to declare that he was taking information away for the sake of preparing himself entrance into the United Party for National Development (UPND)? Just like there is now somebody who has carefully drafted the alternative budget, which is speaking straight in the teeth of those who do not want to refer to it, and yet it carries the portrait of the leader of their party. Is he in order to limit himself to that without explaining how he prepared himself to go into the UPND? I seek your serious ruling.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: My serious ruling is that he is in order, especially that you have adequately debated your point of order.

 

Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, we told them that they are broke, but they refused. They said they are going to the International Monetary Fund (IMF), but where is the IMF today? The IMF is saying this is a dangerous Government which cannot be trusted.

 

Evg. Shabula: With money.

 

Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: Madam, the hon. Minister of Finance must bring that trust back. Tell them that you guys have been reckless and you should use a different route. The best route is to invest in the potential that we have –

 

Hon. Government Members: Guys?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Withdraw the word ‘guys’.

 

Mr Muchima: I withdraw the word ‘guys’. Hon. Members, let us be honourable.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I have seen that the hon. Minister of Finance is ambitious to dismantle the domestic arrears. The debt, as we speak, is at K20.2 billion, but he is only assigning K2.3 billion. Who will he give? This is a source of corruption. People will corrupt other people in order to be paid. The amount that the hon. Minister has put is too little. I wanted him to be brave enough to ask for the whole K20.2 billion to pay off domestic debt. That is how a man stands.

 

Madam, if he wants to be a man, let him come where people –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Which he is hon. Member. From where I am sitting, I see a man in the seat of the hon. Minister of Finance.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I want a man with courage who can stand up among men and tell them that he wants K20.2 billion to clear the domestic debt.

 

Madam, I always give an example of how the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) –

 

Mr Chiteme interjected.

 

Mr Muchima: Pay attention, hon. Minister of National Development and Planning.

 

Madam, I always give an example of how the MMD under the Chiluba-led Government solved the problem of transport with the United Bus Company of Zambia (UBZ).

 

Mr Ngulube interjected.

 

Mr Muchima: Pay attention. Tutwa, you were just a kid in Kabwe.

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Resume your seat, hon. Member for Kabwe Central.

Mr Muchima: The MMD Government under Dr Frederick Chiluba made a critical decision. When we had problems of transport under UBZ, the President made a decision –

 

Mr Lubinda interjected.

 

Mr Muchima: I want to be seeing the hon. Minister of Finance, through you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You should be seeing me.

 

Mr Muchima: There are these issues here. Let me be here.

 

Mr Muchima changed position.

 

Hon. Government Members: We are men!

 

Mr Lubinda: But he is a man!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Resume your seat hon. Member for Ikeleng’i. Let us have some order in the House!

 

Hon. Members on my right, settle down now. I am sure whatever was exciting you has passed now.

 

Hon. Government Members: He is admiring men!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Continue, hon. Member for Ikeleng’i.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, a decision was made under the leadership of Frederick Jacob Titus Chiluba, may his soul rest in peace. We were suffering at the Kitwe Main Bus (KMB) Station when travelling back to school and the Government then channelled part of the Budget towards the transport sector, which resolved that issue. Today, buses are waiting for people, but those days we were waiting for the buses. This is the same route the current Government should have undertaken. If they release the K20.2 billion, they will capture the money back into the economy within a month, they would have resolved a problem and made a name.

 

Madam, the hon. Minister’s predecessor came here supporting the Sales Tax, but he has bravely reversed it after listening to the people.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: We are expecting the same to be done for Bill No. 10 because people have complained. If they do what they did with the Sales Tax, then we will be moving in the right direction. I urge the hon. Minister to make adjustments and clear the local arrears because the K2.3 billion he has allocated is nothing and will just promote corruption.

 

Madam Speaker, we are talking about 90.1 per cent of the Budget being discretionary. They have kept certain unnecessary positions in the Government which are not even adding any value. One such position is the position of the District Commissioner (DC). Some ministries should be shrunk because we do not need them, like a ministry which I cannot name –

Laughter

 

Mr Livune: Ministry of Justice!

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, let us talk about non-traditional exports. We are lucky. The PF Government is blind about the North-Western Province, but if our hon. Colleagues on your right went there, they would see that we have a lot of honey, which can be a good export. They should put up a canary for pineapples, but they do not like the people of the North-Western Province, and yet they want us to like them. How can we like them when they cannot build schools and roads or do anything for the people in the province? The Government is only interested in our copper and gold. This time we are going to be strong. We shall fight them if all they want are our minerals without doing anything for us.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Livune: Which people are those?

 

Mr Muchima: Madam, we have talked about education. General education is struggling. We neither have teachers nor desks in schools.

 

Ms Kasune: Pupils are sitting on the floor in 2019.

 

Mr Muchima: Pupils are sitting on the floor. These are serious issues which the Government needs to review. The hon. Members of the Executive must go and see what I mean when I say there is nothing. Apart from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which was released last year, not much has been done. The other CDF was just signed two days ago after pleading with the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: It is his job!

 

Mr Muchima: That is all that has been taken there. The CDF was the initiative of the MMD party, which I came from.

 

Mr Livune: He has signed?

 

Mr Muchima: He has signed now and it has gone.

 

Madam Speaker, other provinces have universities, but there is nothing in the North-Western Province. The North-Western Province is not a priority to the PF, and yet that is a very rich province.

Ms Lubezhi: Correct!

 

Mr Muchima: The Government is talking about communication towers. Let me check, who is the hon. Minister of towers here?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: The towers which we left have not been commissioned up to now. They have put a lot of information in the Budget, which is not going to be actualised –

 

Mr Mubukwanu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for affording me this opportunity to raise a point of order on the hon. Member on the Floor ...

 

Mr Lubinda: Who is struggling.

 

Mr Mubukwanu: ... who some hon. Members are finding difficult to follow because of his struggles. Is he in order to complain that this Government is broke and does not have money for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) when as a matter of fact, his constituency has been holding on to CDF for so many years without using it to implement projects, at the risk of having that money recalled by the hon. Minister of Finance? I seek your serious ruling.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasune: What kind of point of order is that?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: My ruling is that I will give the hon. Provincial Minister an opportunity to debate so that he can express himself if he indicates.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, Ikeleng’i is now eleven years old since it was declared as a district, yet there is no piped water. People are still sharing water in dams with animals.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Shame!

 

Mr Muchima: We also want to gain something out of this Budget. The hon. Minister of Finance should not listen to those people who have no constituencies.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: If the hon. Minister has no constituency himself, it does not matter because it is known that he is technocrat.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, I thought there was someone who was supposed to debate before me. However –

 

Hon. Government Members: It is supposed to be the hon. Minister for North-Western Province!

 

Mr Kapita: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

I will give the hon. Minister for the North-Western Province an opportunity to debate after the hon. Member for Mitete.

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, I am humbled. In my debate,  I am not going to dwell on Mr Hakainde Hichilema and the United Party for National Development (UPND), which seems to be giving the Patriotic Front (PF) sleepless nights.

 

Mrs Simukoko: Are you sure we are having sleepless nights?

 

Mr Mutelo: Yes, you do not sleep?

 

Madam Speaker, let me begin with what the hon. Minister of Finance said in his Budget Speech in the last line of paragraph No.3, on page 1 as follows:

 

“… I hereby commit myself to work towards achieving economic stabilisation …”

 

Madam, from the hon. Minister’s point of view, the economy is not stable and it is true. Further in the Budget when the hon. Minister of Finance addressed the Gross Domestic Product (GDP), he said that growth, which was initially projected at 4 per cent, was expected to slow down to 2 per cent and that the foreign reserves had declined to US$1.4 billion.

 

Madam Speaker, those are the hon. Minster’s estimates. We do not know if we will even achieve that 2 per cent of growth. However, the hon. Minister said that he is equal to the task of stabilising the economy. If the hon. Minister of Finance will be able to stabilise the economy that is on its knees, then that will be a job well done.

 

Madam, way back in 1963 to 1965, when the Budget was presented around June to July, the first one came from Hon. Asa Wina, as a bearer of a message from the Governor then.

 

Hon. Government Members: Asa?

 

Mr Mutelo: Do not worry that is the Lozi pronunciation of the name Arthur. Forget about your language. 

Hon. Arthur Wina said that Zambia had plenty of resources. At that time, the Government then was handling transitional issues from colonial rule all the way up to 1964 –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member on the Floor, I have just been advised to ask you not to break your back as you debate, but to stand straight.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The microphone is sensitive enough to pick your voice as you debate. Please, do stand straight.

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, I am humbled. I have always stood like this when debating and my back is not broken. Anyway, thank you for that.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, from 1964 to 1966, of course, in between we had a time when the country went for eighteen months without a Budget.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mutelo: Later in 1968, Hon. Mudenda presented the Budget and he had this to say on page 1, 5, 6 and 9 of the 1968 National Budget. paraagraph No. 5 on page 1 reads as follows:

 

“The economic boom is taking place after Zambia’s Independence.”

 

Madam, that statement means that the country had a firm foundation. There was an economic boom between 1964 and 1968. He went on to say:

 

“What are the implications from the point of view of the Budget? As we get in touch with every villager, as we involve everybody, we become more aware of the major human needs which will exist, hence the understandable demands for larger amounts of money for service. There is, therefore, need to reassess our criteria. Expenditure must be related to basic human need”

 

Madam, this was Bo Mudenda, way back then. He also said:

 

“We should even be more careful to avoid spending money on edifies, on creating other gods. We must spend money in such a way that the community as a whole benefits.”

 

Madam Speaker, I guess this was the era when the country was going towards humanism …

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutelo: … and closer to the end of the United National Independence Party’s (UNIP) second term. What happened later? On 8^th December, 1972, democracy changed and multi-partism was abolished. For nineteen years, the country went through a one part participatory democracy, as it were, and the economy of Zambia was on its knees. There were no services to the people. Kubata mulola kikuyema mwa laini taate.

 

Mr Ngulube: Eni.

 

Mr Mutelo: Saladi, kikuyeema mwa laini. From an economic boom –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

What does that mean?

 

Mr Mutelo: That means that there were commodity shortages, be it cooking oil, sugar or whatever one needed. People had to queue for long hours. Queues used to start as early as 0200 hours in the morning. If the economy of a nation is not handled properly, that is what happens. I only hope we are not going towards that experience.

 

Ms Siliya: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mutelo: I sit, you start talking?

 

Laughter

 

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, just over a week ago, my hon. Colleague who is on the Floor, Hon. Mutelo, came to this House with a very long historical lecture on the Budget, in reference to the President’s Speech. At one point, in that speech, Hon. Mutelo told this House and the nation how he knew who the owners of the famous forty-eight houses were.

 

We have since been told that when the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) went to interview him, he decided to claim Parliamentary privilege in a criminal matter which the whole nation is interested in knowing who the owners of the forty-eight houses are. Now, if indeed, that is the case and I do recall your ruling; is the hon. Member in order to come back to this House and attempt to debate using the same method again, of giving us a historical lesson? Is he in order to make us believe that now, we should believe what he is saying when just over a week ago, after a long historical lesson, he could not even substantiate what he was claiming he knew in this House publicly on the forty-eight houses?

 

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The ruling will only deal with whether or not the hon. Member for Mitete is in order to use that type or style of debate, which is to use a historical background. He is in order because that is his style of debate. The hon. Member for Mitete may continue.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, the fact is that up to today, the owner of the forty-eight Houses is not there. If they want, they can tell the ACC to come back again.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, is it possible to have no owner of the forty-eight houses? No! So, whether the ACC will come back or not, they should be told to do their job.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Masholi!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my right. Continue hon. Member for Mitete.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, I would like to say a word on reserves. On page 7, paragraph No. 42 –

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Let us allow the hon. Member to debate. Resume your seat, hon. Member for Kabwe Central. I will not allow that point of order. Continue, hon. Member for Mitete.

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, I would like to say a word on reserves. I will refer to what Hon. Mudenda said on Page 7, Paragraph 42. He said,

 

“It is all too true that reserves are meant to be used but let us be clear as to when their use is warranted. Reserves should be used when there is some square capacity due to a general lack of demand caused by economies such as ours by a temporary slant in the demand for export. In other words, I expect reserves to play a critical part in stabilising the reserves. The reserves are there. If we want to stabilise the economy, then we must be having money in the reserves.”

 

Madam Speaker, this was his fellow hon. Minister of Finance then, and not me.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Which Budget Address are you reading from?

 

Mr Mutelo: This is the 1968 Budget Address by Hon. Mudenda.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Government Members: Talk about the 2020 Budget.

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, before we start talking about the 2020 Budget, we need to look back. No wonder the PF Government is failing – it is failing because it cannot look back. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutelo: It is important to know where we are coming from. If the hon. Colleagues on your right do not want to me quote from the Budgets of the 1960s and 1970s, I will get to the 2011 Budget, paragraph 5, which was delivered by Hon. Dr Musokotwane. It says,

  

“Mr. Speaker, our people have made great sacrifices over the last twenty years. We are where we are today because of these sacrifices. The tangible benefits of our economic successes have started to be felt by all our people. But this is also not enough. We must accelerate this process. Mr. Speaker, we are not a complacent Government.”

 

Madam Speaker, that speech was delivered during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) period. I think the current hon. Minister of Finance could have been there. It further states,

 

“We will not rest on our laurels, but strive to accelerate this process of delivering benefits to our people. This is why the 2011 Budget is A People’s Budget, from a People’s Government.”

 

Madam Speaker, on paragraph 14, it says,

 

‘Sir, an enabling policy environment and increased private sector investment underpinned Zambia’s incredible resilience to the global financial crisis. As a result, the country emerged as one of the best performers in what was one of the worst recessions in recent times.  Against an initial projection of 4.3 percent, the Zambian economy grew by 6.4 percent in 2009, the highest recorded during the last decade.”

 

Madam Speaker, the projection we have now is from 4 per cent to 2 per cent even after having inherited from such a strong foundation.

 

Mr Ngulube: Now, connect that to the 2020 Budget!

 

Mr Mutelo: Wait, I am connecting.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, after the MMD, Bo Chikwanda came and said that they inherited a strong foundation. Where is that strong foundation? If the PF were to leave today, what would the incoming Government find? Zero! They should not behave like that. No! Their colleagues left a strong foundation and they came and started saying this and that in connection with the forty-eight houses. What are they doing? For now, we know that there is no money in the reserves. How are they going to stabilise the economy? Where are they going to find the money from? How I wish the MMD were not voted out of power in 2011. It was a big mistake and even the hon. Minister for Information and Broadcasting is agreeing with me.

 

Laughter

Ms Siliya: On a point order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam Speaker: Order! Resume your seat, hon. Minister. Because you have dragged the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting into your debate, I will give her this point of order.

 

A point of order is raised.

 

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, is the Member of Parliament, Hon. Mutelo, who is trying very hard to fill up his time and still struggling to discuss the 2020 Budget in order to bring me into his debate when I am very happy to have joined the PF through a door and not the window? Since there is no MMD, I am PF. If he is living in the past, I am in the present and that is why I am on the side that won the elections. Is he in order to bring me in his debate?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mitete is certainly out of order for bringing the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting, who was sitting quietly and listening to him, into his debate.

 

The hon. Member for Mitete will continue now.

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) left a strong foundation. I will repeat that if the Patriotic Front (PF) was to leave today, …

 

Hon. PF Members: To where?

 

Mr Mutelo: … it would leave a shaky foundation which would need strong minds and intellectuals to build on it…

 

Hon. PF Members:  Which ones?

 

Mr Mutelo: … like the one they are afraid of, who gives them sleepless nights.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: They claim that they have borrowed debt because they are building roads. There has not been a single road in Mitete since 1964 and the coming of the PF into power. There is nothing that has happened on the Katunda-Lukulu-Watopa Road,  akuna, meaning nothing even when there is putu in Mangango where this road passes. There is still nothing happening.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: So, where are the roads they are claiming to construct? Where are they?

 

Madam Speaker, we are grateful that they declared Mitete a district, but this has not brought about any development. Now they are saying that only projects which are at 80 per cent completion point will be completed. Can they tell me of any project which is at 80 per cent completion level in Mitete? So, when are they going to build the reserves and then get the money to start delivering services to the people?

 

Madam Speaker, if time had allowed me, I would have shown the House that there were severe weather conditions even in 1963 and 1964. In 1968, there was no rain and we had a disaster in Mufulira where eighty-nine miners passed on, but still, those who had the power to handle the resources of the nation were able to stabilise the economy, unlike what the people on your right are now saying. They have no way of stabilising the economy. It is no wonder they say uubomba, he who works … but please, do not eat the seed.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Livune: The reserves

 

Mr Mutelo: Now the reserves are depleted. It is no wonder they have had three hon. Ministers of Finance within five years. We are yet to see how we will end. In less than five years, they have had three hon. Ministers of Finance. The current is the third one. This is a sign of struggling. You do not handle finances like that. Let someone put their mind to this area and see how their mind will work.

 

Madam Speaker, I beg the hon. Minister of Finance to stabilise the economy. There is pain and hunger out there.

 

Madam Speaker, this PF Government should exit sooner or in 2021.

 

Madam Speaker, with those very few words, I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will allow the hon. Minister for North-Western Province to debate.

 

The Minister for North-Western Province (Mr Mubukwanu): Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for the opportunity to contribute to the Motion on the Floor. I would like to sincerely commend the hon. Minister of Finance and the Patriotic Government (PF) Government for a well delivered Budget.

 

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, the Budget feeds very well into the earlier presentation that was made by His Excellency the President when he came to officially open this House. The issues of climate change were adequately addressed and its effects on the economy were equally raised.

 

Madam Speaker, amidst those challenges, through this Budget, the hon. Minister of Finance has come up with a plan or a proposal of how this Government is going to respond to address them. He does this very well through the theme that he has coined, which clearly re-echoes the Government’s resolve to stimulate the domestic economy by focusing on national priorities. There is no any other way and, for this, I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance, once again.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, we have heard from those that have spoken before and some of the things that they raised were serious concerns about the debt situation in the country. Nobody from the right side of the House has ever denied that we are in debt. We have admitted and the debt has been borrowed specifically for purposes of investing in order to lay a firm foundation for this economy to grow. Without these investments in the infrastructure, the road and the power generation sectors, this economy will not be able to grow.

 

Madam Speaker, there are so many things that we can point at where these monies where taken to. We have so many projects which some of my colleagues who have spoken before me have highlighted, for example, the connection of the whole North-Western Province to the national power grid without exception.

 

Madam Speaker, electricity or access to power is one fundamental ingredient for any economic activities to thrive. The people that were interested to invest in certain parts of the province would not come because there was no power. However, this particular Government has put money into this sector so that we can provide power at the door steps of those that want to invest in the region.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Further, this is also to create a great opportunity for our local entrepreneurs to be able to access this power and use it to better themselves and their livelihoods.

 

Madam Speaker, we have not consumed this debt. It has gone into sectors which we can point at and future generations will find. As a disciplined Government, the hon. Minister of Finance has continued to dedicate amounts of resources to ensure that we service the debt. Those obligations have to be fulfilled. Without fulfilling these obligations, it will be difficult for us to be able to maintain our reputation and integrity as a country on the international forum. We have these obligations and hence, whatever resources we are able to mop up, we should be able to honour them. We would like to commend the hon. Minister for providing 40 per cent of the Budget for this purpose.

 

Madam Speaker, there was also an issue that was raised around the 50.1 per cent of the Budget going to personal emoluments. This amount will go to Zambians. They will make use of this particular allocation to support themselves and their families that look up to them. So, how can somebody come and say that there is nothing for Zambians in this Budget?

 

Madam Speaker, for us in the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, we value the role that the Civil Service plays in our development agenda. The Civil Service is the engine of development of any nation, and as such, we are obliged to provide for them. We have provided these resources because we want them, as key players in the implementation of the Government programmes, to be able to carry out their work. This is contrary to what we saw in the alternative budget by the UPND. There is no provision or allocation whatsoever for civil servants. How can the UPND seek the civil servants of this country to entrust it with the responsibility of looking after them? This particular Budget Address by the hon. Minister of Finance and the alternative budget for the UPND, clearly gives the people of Zambia an option to see which, between the two, means well for their welfare.

 

Madam Speaker, as a country, we have an obligation to respond timely to the challenges that we are facing without having to apologise to anybody. Our mandate is to focus on those key areas as outlined by the hon. Minister of Finance in the Budget Address for 2020.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Bauze!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam, when a Budget is developed, the whole idea is to show the people of this country what activities we hope to do, what resources will be required for us to carry out those activities and where we are going to get the resources from. Unfortunately, my colleagues in the UPND, in their alternative budget, have failed whatsoever to adhere to these basic principles that constitute what a budget is. There is nothing at all.

 

Madam, the hon. Minister of Finance presented a K106,007,612,236 Budget, but this alternative budget does not have any total. So, how can the UPND tell the people of Zambia what it is going to do in 2020 without showing what kind of resources it would require to carry out those works in order for it to impact positively the welfare of the people of Zambia?

 

Mr Lubinda: Akuna zebaziba!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: All it is simply doing is politicking.

 

Madam Speaker, this budget certainly falls short of a real and proper alternative to what the hon. Minister of Finance presented. Even the niece to Hon. Makebi Zulu, the Minister for the Eastern Province who is studying bookkeeping at St Mary’s Secondary School in Chipata, would have probably done a far much better job in preparing the Budget than this alternative budget.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Bookkeeping!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, when you look at the introduction by the hon. Minister of Finance in paragraph 2, he said:

 

“Sir, I am a bearer of a message from His Excellency, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, President of the Republic of Zambia recommending favourable consideration of the Motion that I now lay on the Table.”

 

Madam, people who appreciated this address by the hon. Minister of Finance restricted themselves only to the hon. Minister of Finance ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: ... forgetting that he was only a bearer of a message from His Excellency, the President.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: So, hon. Minister of Finance, being a good bearer, please, kindly convey to His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, that this House, including the Opposition, fully appreciates the delivery that you made to us.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubinda: Good point.

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, for the Patriotic Front (PF), this Budget is a collective effort. The PF Government, through Cabinet, sat many times to go through this document until it was approved and ready for presentation. That is why, we, on the right side of the House, are able to stand and defend it individually and collectively. It shows that we are working as a team.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, for you to achieve a great vision, you need to have a team that is very effective. The failure by the hon. Members of Parliament from the UPND to speak on their alternative budget and how they want to run this country in 2020, shows that this is a one man project, instead of a collective responsibility.

 

Mr Lubinda: He owns it.

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, that silence is a clear indictment on the process of budget development of this alternative budget.

 

Madam Speaker, when you scrutinise the cover of the hon. Minister of Finance’s Budget Speech, it summarises by way of pictorial presentation of some key thematic areas that are affecting this country. When those who do not know how to read pick this Budget Speech and look at it, they can appreciate the issues of concern to this country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: However, when you look at the alternative budget for our friends, you will see a picture of a person.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mubukwanu: There is a picture of one person.

 

Mr Lubinda: What is he doing?

 

Ms Kapata: The alpha and the omega.

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Nobody knows what this means and how it relates to this Budget. These are the people who are yearning and looking forward to ruling this country.

 

Ms Kapata: Never!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, it does not work that way.

 

Ms Kapata: Nichimbwi no plan.

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, for us, as the PF, we would like to state our resolution to provide strong and steady leadership to move this country to a better future. The Opposition has been talking about the coming 2021 elections and that the people of Zambia should vote us out? What will they replace us with? At the moment, there is no alternative. The alternative, which was supposed to be the UPND, has failed to clearly outline what it would do in 2020 when it is given the opportunity.

 

Mr Lubinda: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, in any case, if this alternative Budget was to be presented to this country, it should have been done by a shadow hon. Minister of Finance for the UPND, not the leader of the party. That is the standard practice. The leader of the party should not have paraded himself before the media to present that document. No! That is not the standard practice in the world.

 

Mr Lubinda: He paraded himself to present an irrelevant document.

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, there was a matter that was raised by my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Ikeleng’i. He lamented that this Government is bankrupt, that it does not have enough money to even finance the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I attempted to rise on a point of order to challenge that point, but you ably guided that an opportunity would be given to me to debate the matters. As I wind up, allow me to clearly state that this Government is more than committed to serving the people of Zambia regardless of where they are and how they voted. The hon. Member of Parliament who debated and raised that complaint is from the Opposition UPND, but he received his CDF, two allocations for that matter, which have not been used.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Yet some hon. Members of Parliament who are in the PF, even in Cabinet, have not received their CDF. So, how can one come and claim before this House that there is no consideration for the people of Ikeleng’i in this country?

 

Mr Lubinda: Shame!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, the lack of utilisation of that money deprives the people of Ikeleng’i an opportunity to benefit from these resources that their Government has placed at their disposal. Let me step back a little bit and speak about two more projects before I sit down. The first project that I would like to speak about is the famous Solwezi/Chingola Road. That is the flagship project for the Patriotic Front (PF) Government in the North-Western Province.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

 Mr Mubukwanu: Nobody will take it away from us because we have delivered on our promise. I also had an opportunity and privilege to serve in the same capacity in the Western Province of the Republic of Zambia, where we managed as the PF Government, to construct the Mongu/Kalabo Road.

 

Hon. Livune: Question!

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam, the hon. Member who is questioning knows very well that before the Mongu/Kalabo Road was rehabilitated, his people were jumping on old open Land Rovers from Mongu to Kalabo. They spent more than two hours to cover a distance of under 80 km, depending on where one was starting their journey from. They were paying K160 that time, yet from Mongu to Lusaka, a distance of 600 km, they were paying only about K75. However, when the PF came into power, the road has been constructed.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Construction of that road started in the time of the United National Independence Party (UNIP), which failed to implement it. The Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) attempted on three consecutive occasions and the road was washed away.

 

Mr Mwakalombe: With Hon. Musokotwane as the hon. Minister of Finance.

Mr Mubukwanu: Madam Speaker, when the PF came into Government, we changed the design and brought in a new contractor. That is why there are so many Bailey bridges lying around in Mongu. It is a sign that the materials and design were not suitable for that particular type of road. Therefore, the PF Government is saying this debt that we have incurred, this is where we have put it ...

 

Hon PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubukwanu: ... and people are using it daily.

 

Madam Speaker, to move from Mongu to Kalabo, one has an option of either going by taxi or by luxury coach, yet paying only as little as K25.  However, there are some people who live in Kalabo and work in Mongu and others commute from Mongu to do their work in Kalabo. Those are the benefits for the people of Zambia out of the debt that this Government has incurred for them. What else would one want to do?

 

Madam Speaker, sometimes it becomes very difficult and it reaches a point whereby even if you tell people the opposite of truth – which I fear to say because you will rule me out of order.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mubukwanu: The truth itself will be able to stand the test of time. Even if I stood here to say that the sun is shining outside, some people on your left would still question. After all, the hon. Minister for the Eastern Province said that “a cigar is a cigar after all”.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Madam Speaker, I want to thank you most sincerely for giving me this rare opportunity, on behalf of the people of Milenge, to express my views on the Budget. Let me also assure and encourage my hon. Colleagues that there are times when you feel, after you have delivered your speech, that most your hon. Colleagues are not in the House. What we say here is not addressed to the Opposition only. What they say is not only meant for us, on your right. Ladies and gentlemen, there is a bigger audience out there. Therefore, whether they go out or they remain in the House, we are addressing the bigger audience, which are the Zambians.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbulakulima: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance for having brought honesty and integrity on the table. From an accounting point of view, we all know that a budget is not driven by emotions, but realism. Even when one is in a hidden place where no one can see them, people will know that he/she will do the right thing. This is not because people are seeing you, but because of integrity.

 

In this regard, the hon. Minister of Finance is not driven by what people might think out there or to satisfy them. There are certain fundamental issues that we look at dear hon. Colleagues. For instance, how is the Budget prepared in Zambia and elsewhere? Hon. Members know that Zambia is not an island but is part of the global village. What happens here also happens in the United States of America (USA). What happens in the USA also happens in Europe. Therefore, the budget formulation is the same.

 

Madam Speaker, there are certain fundamentals or parameters we look at such as the global outlook. Global development and performance is number one and we cannot run away from it. Second is the domestic development performance. How the economy is performing? This is why when we look at the 2020 Budget, the hon. Minister of Finance is trying to address these fundamentals.

 

Madam, the parameters and fundamentals in Zambia are basically based on three issues. All of us must know that the hon. Minister of Finance is not operating in isolation. Our Budget in Zambia is based on the copper price dictated by the price on the international market. Secondly, is the price of oil and the third one is the exchange rate. Fellow countrymen, whether we like it or not, these three parameters or fundamentals are very important.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbulakulima: I would like to demonstrate to the House that it is not the Patriotic Front (PF), Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) or anyone else to blame. To be realistic, I would like to share with my dear hon. Colleagues the Budgets for 2010, 2011 and 2012 and then I will come back to the current Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, in doing so, I will try to justify the global economic outlook and the local one, which is called domestic. Some of the highlights of the 2010 Budget are as follows:

 

“Mr Speaker, preliminary indications are that the global economy is beginning to emerge from the raging recess which began last year. Despite unexpected stronger performance in the second half of 2009, global economic output is still estimated to contract by 1.1 per cent this year.” 

 

Madam, this is what was said in the 2010 Budget. It went on to say that:

 

“However, the contraction is significantly smaller than earlier estimates. The globe in 2010 is expected to record position growth of only 3.1 per cent. Secondly, the global economic crisis has not spared Sub-Sahara Africa, which was going to grow at only 5.5 per cent.”

 

Madam, what about the copper? In the case of copper prices, they were expected to average US$4,190 per metric tonne against the initial estimate of US$3,500. That was the price of copper in 2010.

 

“As the buying power is industrialised and while countries were trying to respond to the economic crisis, the price of our main export commodity, copper, rapidly declined to as low as US$2,811 per metric tonnes in December, 2008, from a record high of US$8,985 per metric tonne.”

 

Here we are dear hon. Colleagues, the price of copper was US$2,811 from US$8,985.     

 

        Madam Speaker, in his final remarks of the 2010 Budget Address, he said that it was against that background that he wished to announce that the projected economic growth for 2009 was 4.3 per cent. The global and domestic performances were what determined the 4.3 percent growth and not the party that was in power. I have heard many people saying that under the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) it was about 7 per cent. In 2010 budget 4.3 per cent GDP growth was projected.

 

Madam Speaker, in the 2011 National Budget, it was indicated that the global economy continued to recover from the global crisis. Global economic growth was projected to reach 4.8 per cent in 2010. The other point was that 2010 had been an excellent year for copper exporting countries. The average price of copper on the international market had reached a record high of K7,202 per metric tonne between January and September of that year. That was the highest and because of that, the MMD Government had delivered positive growth for eleven years to the Zambian people.

 

Madam Speaker, he went on to say that in his previous Budget Address, he had promised to reposition the Zambian economy to ensure that it had benefited from the rebound in the global economic activities.  The MMD Government had kept the promise and expected real Gross Domestic Products (GDP) to reach 6.6 per cent. What drove that was the global and domestic performance including copper, which was at 6.5 per cent.

 

Madam Speaker, in 2012, he said that global economy continued its recovery in 2011 as the annual growth was projected at 4.0 per cent slightly lower than the 5.1 per cent. Secondly, the average price of copper in the first ten months of 2011 was K8,704 per tonne compared to K7,500 tonne in 2010. 

 

Madam Speaker, growth under the first year of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. Preliminary estimates indicated that the economy would grow by 6.5 per cent in 2011. This was in line with the initial projection of 6.4 per cent. So, it is not that the PF started on 3 or 4 not at all. Further, the kwacha depreciated marginally by 4.5 per cent. So, in 2012 the growth was 6.5 per cent and that was under the PF Government. These are some of the fundamentals that any reasonable Minister of Finance would look at, including the oil price on international level. It is from there that the Budget is projected.

 

In this regard, if you look at – what do we expect – that is where sometimes we get surprised. People always talk about the Presidential Speech, linking it up with the Budget. I have heard many people saying the allocation is small, but the President was very clear in his address where he said:

 

“It is for this reason that I direct the new Secretary to the Cabinet, Dr Simon Kamwendo Miti, to meet Permanent Secretaries and Senior Government Officials, monthly, to inform the Civil Servants that in view of the current economic situation, Government needs to work more prudently and to do so, the focus should be on ‘managing results, by doing more with less’. This is the new mantra that my Government is working with at all levels”.

 

Madam Speaker, the Budget is premised on that basis. When you see the downward trend, the President has set the tone. What are some of the positives that you can pick, dear colleagues, whether we are for or against because the nation is listening?

 

Madam, this Budget has addressed the concept of being a pro-poor Government which the PF has been championing. I say so because when I look at this Budget, I see that the vulnerable have been addressed. The home-grown school feeding programme is feeding 1 million children and these are vulnerable and the poor. This Government is a pro-poor Government.

 

Madam, secondly, the Social Cash Transfer is going to cater for 700,000 people. That is the Budget and it is addressing the vulnerable people. This is what a caring Government does. Further, there are 1 million small-scale farmers that are going to benefit from this Budget. These 1 million small-scale farmers do not come from one region or area, it cuts across the board. These are some of the positives that we can identify.

 

Madam Speaker, regarding climate change, as I said, climate change impacts society and the eco-system in many ways. For example, it alters rain patterns, influences crop yields, affects human health and brings change to forests. Whoever thought that the Amazon would catch fire in that manner? The Amazon produces oxygen for the whole world, but today it is on fire because of climate change. That is why any intelligent leader must champion the issue of climate change.

 

Madam, our President has generated interest in climate change. If you look at it, the impact of climate change has been felt. People were sceptical when the pronouncement was first made, but it has become the issue of the moment. That is how you do it. For me, the President has ignited interest among citizens to look at the issue of climate change. 

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbulakulima: For positive or negative, today people are focusing on the issue of climate change. That is what the Head of State did and that is what the Budget is trying to address.

 

Madam Speaker, many people have spoken about hunger in the country, but technically, hunger is an offshoot of climate change. The Head of State has to address bigger issues hence, leaving the issue of food distribution to hon. Ministers and I think it has been handled very well.

 

Further, infrastructure is very visible. Borrowing was done in good faith and all of us are able to see the return on that investment.

 

I can assure you that as we leave this august House today, no one is going to hit a pothole. Today, you can travel from Lusaka to Chililabombwe, the constituency of my hon. Colleague, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, you will not find any pothole because the Government borrowed and invested prudently.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbulakulima: Hon. ladies and gentlemen, roads have been constructed in many parts of the country even in the outskirts of Zambia. It is good to give credit where it belongs.

 

Madam Speaker, schools, hospitals – including specialised hospitals have been constructed. Having been in this House for some time, I have observed that nowadays, very few questions arise on the Floor regarding the construction of schools. We are almost there in terms of adequate classrooms but what we now have to address is the issue of houses for teachers. I can see that this Government is putting money where it matters most.

 

Madam, as regards security, let me buttress the point that Hon. Dr Chanda raised. There has been a lot of misinformation and carelessness in the way people have attacked the allocation to security. Security is a serious matter. All of us know that historically and biblically, the defence of any state is very important, unless one does not know the definition of “state”. Anyone who knows the definition of a “state” knows that defence is very important. You cannot build security within two weeks or one year. You cannot fatten a cow on market day. The issue of security cannot be tampered with, so let us tone down. The allocation to defence and security is not a laughing matter but a serious one.

 

Madam Speaker, I will not dwell much on agriculture because of time. My hon. Colleagues already made comments on dip tanks, construction of dams, the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), breeding centers and promotion of aquaculture. All these have been addressed in this Budget.

 

Madam, let me assure my dear hon. Colleagues from the Patriotic Front (PF) that the issue of corruption should not threaten nor scare them. It is an old, broken record.

 

Prof. Luo: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbulakulima: That system and formula has been used before and it will never be used again. It is just there to incite and excite the public, but there is no zeroing in these issues, so do not worry much.

 

Madam, Further, many people talked about dununa reverse.  Let me tell you –

 

Evg. Shabula: What is that?

 

Mr Mbulakulima: Dununa reverse is a song that hon. Members on the left mentioned several times in their debates.

 

Madam, one thing is very clear. Messages to society must be relevant and appealing. For example, the PF has been very innovative and creative in this area. The song donchi kubeba went across the nation like fire.

 

Mr Mutelo: Meaning?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

What does “donchi kubeba” mean?

 

Mr Mbulakulima: It means “Do not tell them because you know the secret behind what you believe in.”

 

Madam, the song “Dununa reverse” was very appealing to everybody, whether one belonged to the PF or not, so do not worry about that.

I thank you, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, your time is up.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice to the 2020 National Budget debate.

 

Madam, during the President’s Address on Friday, 13^th September, 2019, the nation was given an idea of how the 2020 Budget would look like. We saw that 50 per cent was allocated to emoluments and salaries, 40 per cent went to paying back the loans. Only 10 per cent of the Budget remains for economic growth.

 

Hon. UPND Members: 9.9 per cent!

 

Ms Chisangano: In fact, it is 9.9 per cent. One may ask: Why did we get those loans? Did we plan for these loans? Did all the citizens of this country benefit from these loans? The answer is no! I have seen that there is nothing much that has happened economically in constituencies like Gwembe.

 

Madam Speaker –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

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The House adjourned at 1256 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 8^th October, 2019.

 

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