Thursday, 3rd October, 2019

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Thursday, 3rd October, 2019

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

_______

 

RULING BY MR SPEAKER

 

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY HON J. J. MWIIMBU, LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION AND MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MONZE CENTRAL PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY AGAINST THE HON. MINISTER OF FINANCE ON WHETHER HE WAS IN ORDER NOT TO CIRCULATE TO HON. MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT THE YELLOW BOOK AND THE ECONOMIC REPORT IN TIME TO DEBATE THE BUDGET EFFECTIVELY

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that on Tuesday, 1st October, 2019, when the House was considering the Motion of Supply and the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central Parliamentary Constituency, Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, was on the Floor, Mr J. J. Mwiimbu, Leader of the Opposition and hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency raised a point of order. In his point of order, Hon. Mwiimbu, MP, expressed himself in the following terms:

 

"Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious procedural point of order pertaining to the discussion on the Floor of this House vis-a-vis the Budget. Sir, we are all aware that before we even debate the Budget, the Ministry of Finance is supposed to release the Yellow Book to enable hon. Members of Parliament to debate issues prudently.

I am hearing running commentaries, but the issue which I am raising is very cardinal. It is not just about the Yellow Book. We are supposed to have the Economic Report pertaining to the activities of the Government for the previous year to enable us to debate. This has been the precedent of this particular House. If they have released the Yellow Book, it is not enough, because they have not released the Economic Report.

 

Are they in order, Mr Speaker, not to give us the tools in order for us to debate the Budget prudently? I seek your ruling."

 

In my immediate response, I stated that my ruling would be in two parts. Firstly, I ruled that the Yellow Book had since been distributed in the pigeon holes. Second, I reserved my ruling in relation to the Economic Report to enable me to render a measured ruling. I have since conducted investigations on the matter, and I now render my ruling as follows:

 

Hon. Members, the laying before the National Assembly of the annual Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure comprised in the Yellow Book is guided by the Constitution of Zambia, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia. To this end, Article 202 (1) provides as follows:

 

"202. (1) The Minister responsible for Finance shall prepare and lay before the National Assembly in each financial year, not later than ninety days before the commencement of the next financial year, estimates of revenue and expenditure for the Republic."

 

Hon. Members may wish to note that the preceding provision is replicated in Order 80 (1) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2016. 

 

Hon. Members, it is clear from Article 202 (1) and Standing Order Number 80(1), that the hon. Minister responsible for finance is only obliged to lay before the National Assembly annual financial estimates of revenue and expenditure ninety days before the commencement of the financial year to which the estimates relate.

 

Thus, neither the Constitution and any other law nor the National Assembly Standing Orders prescribe additional documents that should accompany the Yellow Book.  However, I am alive to the established practice of laying before the House, the following additional documents:

 

(a)        Financial Report for the previous year;

 

(b)        Mid-Year Economic Report for the current year; and

 

(c)        Establishment Registers for each ministry and spending agencies.

 

Hon Members, at the time when the Leader of the Opposition raised the Point of Order, the following documents had already been tabled on 27th September, 2019, and circulated to all hon. Members in their pigeon holes:

 

  1. the Yellow Book;
  2. the Financial Report for the year ended 31st December, 2018; and
  3. the Mid-Year Economic Report for the year 2019.

 

In addition, the Establishment Registers for the year 2020, for the Ministry of General Education, Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, and the Anti-Corruption Commission were also tabled on 27th September, 2019.  Hon Members, I hasten to add that these documents are very important, because they assist hon. Members in assessing the performance of the approved Budget.  As such, I urge all hon. Members to take time to read the documents and regularly inspect their pigeon holes.

 

In view of the foregoing, the hon. Minister of Finance was not out of order.

 

I thank you.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

2019/2020 RAINY SEASON FORECAST

 

The Minister of Transport and Communication (Mr Kafwaya): Mr Speaker, I want to thank you sincerely for granting me this opportunity to render a ministerial statement on the 2019/2020 Rainy Season Forecast. I thought it would be appropriate to update the nation through this august House on the current rainy season which is likely to give rise both to positive and negative impacts on the livelihoods of our people across the country. This statement is in addition to the press statement which I issued on 4th September, 2019.

 

Mr Speaker the potential for weather information to contribute to social and economic development cannot be over emphasised. As such, this information must be shared so that it is integrated in our planning and decision management in all sectors of our human endeavor. In line with the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP) weather and climate information is critical in the delivery of aspirations to enhance economic diversification, job creation, poverty and vulnerability reduction as well as reducing developmental inequalities while preserving our environment.

 

Sir, the use of weather and climate information is also cardinal for adapting and building resilience of our economy and communities to climate variability and climate change. Furthermore, weather and climate information is important in disaster risk reduction and preparedness in extreme weather and climate events such as floods and droughts which have become a commonplace in recent years. Weather and climate information is equally vital for mitigating and fighting diseases against humans, animals and plants.

 

Mr Speaker, we are aware that small scale farmers and rural dwellers are the most vulnerable people in our society. They are negatively affected by the weather and lack of information on weather and climate. I therefore, urge my hon. Colleagues in the house to take this message to our people in the constituencies in order for the people to benefit from it.

 

Sir, the country has, in the 2017/2018 and the 2018/2019 Rainy Seasons experienced adverse impacts of weather variability and climate change. For example, in the 2017/2018 Rainy Season, the country witnessed extreme weather conditions ranging from prolonged dry spells in January to flooding in February and March. Furthermore, the immediate past 2018/2019 Rainy Season had most areas in the southern half of the country receive below average rainfall. Choma, Gwembe and surrounding areas received the record lowest rainfall. On the other hand, many areas in the northern half of the country recorded above average rainfall with places such as Lunga District in Luapula Province, Chama and Isoka districts in Muchinga Province experiencing unprecedented floods.

 

Mr Speaker, in order for our people to be ready for the current rainy season, allow me to share with this august House the 2019/2020 Rainy Season forecast. The forecast, generally, indicates that much of Zambia is likely to receive normal to above normal rainfall during this rainy season. The season is likely to be established in mid November over most parts of the country. Nevertheless, areas over the Northern Province, Luapula Province, the North-Western Province, the Copperbelt Province and the Western Province are likely to experience rainfall activities by October. The northern part of the country has already begun to experience some rainfall activities.

 

However, this notwithstanding, there is a high likelihood of dry spells around February, especially over the southern part of the country. There is also a high chance that most of the rainfall will be received in the months of November and December, 2019, and in January and March, 2020.

 

Mr Speaker, the forecast for the whole season has been segmented into four periods of three month totals each to indicate monthly performance as the season progresses, as follows:

For the period between October, November and December, there is high chance of receiving normal to above normal rainfall for most parts of the country. However, the areas around Isoka, Chama, Mpika, Mbala, Nakonde, Mpulungu, Chinsali, Mungwi and Lundazi districts will, most likely, receive normal to below normal rainfall. For the period November, December and January, the southern half of the country is likely to receive above normal rainfall, while the northern half has a high chance of receiving normal to above normal rainfall with the exception of the north-eastern areas where there is a likelihood of normal to below normal rainfall.

 

Mr Speaker, as we progress into December, January and February, there is a high likelihood of receiving normal to above normal rainfall for the southern half of the country, while the northern half has a high chance of receiving above normal rainfall. In the final three months of the season, which is the period between January, February and March, the northern half of the country has a high chance of receiving normal to above normal rainfall, while the southern half is likely to receive normal to below normal rainfall.

 

Sir, let me state that during the current Rainy Season and indeed in many rainy seasons, dry spells may occur, which in certain circumstances, lead to crop losses. In this regard, I urge our farmers and other stakeholders to regularly get in touch with the Ministry of Transport and Communication to access updated meteorological forecasts.

 

Mr Speaker, every Rainy Season is characterised by wide ranging implications on all socio-economic sectors. In this respect, I wish to inform the nation that the 2019/2020 Rainy Season is likely to experience floods and flash floods in prone areas that may cause damage to infrastructure. We may witness increased chances of disease burden to humans, livestock and crops. These experiences may include damage to civil structures such as roads, bridges and culverts, increased chances of disease outbreaks such as cholera, dysentery and typhoid.The country may also experience outbreaks of agricultural pests such as army worms and stock borers. That said, I advise hon. Members of the august House and the public in general to take all the necessary precautions to avoid loss of life and property should there be any extreme weather events during this Rainy Season. I want to highlight the need for all sectors to conduct sensitisation programmes regarding good sanitation and hygiene practices, and clearing of drainage systems well in advance to avoid water pools that may serve as a breeding ground for pathogens that may cause waterborne diseases such as cholera and dysentery. In addition, there is great need for institutions to store relief materials, medicines and pesticides that may be required in the course of the Rainy Season.

 

Mr Speaker, may I conclude by stressing that my ministry will continue giving the nation updates on the actual and expected rainfall during the entire Rainy Season. This will be done through radio and television, including other media platforms. I further urge our farmers countrywide to seek expert guidance from the Ministry of Agriculture for advice on when to plant, what to plant, and the general outlook aspects of crop management. On our part, we will continue working hand in hand with our colleagues from the Ministry of Agriculture, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, the Ministry of Energy, the Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection, and other key stakeholders to ensure the public is kept informed.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the statement he has given on the Floor of the House.

 

Sir, I am aware that in the past, the ministry used to give forecasts, as he has done today, and the meteorological forecasts which we used to be given at the time used to be inaccurate in most instances. As a result of the inaccurate predictions pertaining to the weather, many farmers and other citizens suffered due to the advice that was given. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether this time around, his ministry is giving us accurate predictions of the weather forecast.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Leader of the Opposition in the House rightly put it, what I have indicated to the nation is a forecast. A forecast entails prediction, which means we are talking about events of a time yet to come. Therefore, there are uncertainties; this is why we are using the word “likely.” However, although it is a forecast, with all the uncertainties, we have taken every care to include all necessary factors that need to be included in a good forecast. Let me assure the hon. Member that this is a carefully arrived at forecast.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mubika (Shang’ombo): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Transport and Communication what plans or measures the Government has put in place to ensure that this time around, in case we have good rains, we can harvest water which we can use in future for humans, wildlife and domesticated animals.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, that question may be more applicable to the Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection. We are just giving information about the weather in this respect.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kundoti (Luena): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that statement, and I hope that he will continue to update the nation as time goes on.

 

Mr Speaker, my question is on the preparedness of the Government in relation to the washing away of bridges as he highlighted that we may have flash floods. How prepared is the Government in terms of attending to bridges that may be washed away?

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, the hon. Minister has come through on a specific subject and remit. He is not here to speak generally on behalf of other ministries like the ministry which is responsible for housing and infrastructure development. That is not his remit. If the statement is fairly clear, as I see it, we can make progress. If you have clarifications on the rainfall forecast, please ask your questions. You have that privilege, but do not move away from the subject under discussion.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, I seek clarification on the forecast for the Southern Province. Did the hon. Minister say the province will experience normal to above normal rainfall for the whole season, or will that be for only two months?

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, the forecast is that in the southern part of the country, there will be periods when it will experience normal to above normal rainfall. However, the period when there will be normal to above normal rainfall is going to be short, and this is likely to be established in November.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister emphasised that we hon. Members of Parliament should go out in the constituencies and inform our people on the weather patterns that have been predicted. This information is very important to our farmers, especially looking at the drought that we had recently. Compared to the past predictions, how accurate or reliable is this information?

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, development or progress in our country, Zambia, is a continuous process. The techniques that have been used in the past to make predictions are different from what we are using now. My answer is similar to the assurance I gave the hon. Leader of the Opposition. This forecast was arrived at using very careful techniques and more modernised techniques than what we have used in the past. Therefore, it is a carefully arrived at statement, and we think that given the uncertainties that may be there, it is a fairly accurate prediction.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, on the same techniques that the hon. Minister has talked about, I would like to find out whether this time around, there is any international meteorological body which cross-checked and qualified the weather forecast for the 2019/2020 season which he has just shared with us.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, there is no international body which cross-checked and qualified our forecast. We, on our own, compared our forecast with those developed by the Southern African Development Community (SADC) member states. So, we think that our projections were consistent with the projections established by SADC.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, my concern is on the flow of information between the ministry and farmers. Most farmers cannot understand information that is passed on in English. Could the ministry consider printing the information in seven local languages?

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, we have already translated our forecast into the seven major languages, and this information is available at the ministry. My hon. Colleague is free to pass through and get translations in the language he may be interested.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, considering that this time around, most farmers are busy getting farming inputs, does the hon. Minister not think that this information is rather late? Could the hon. Minster not have given this information much earlier so that farmers are advised on what kind of inputs are suitable in relation to the weather patterns in specific areas?

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, the statement I have offered to the nation through this august House this afternoon, is a supplement to the press release which I issued on 4th September, 2019. I think that the information is not late because this is just a chance for those who may not have got the information the first time we issued it to consolidate it in their planning.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, indeed, it is very important for the nation to have confidence in the reports from the Government. As the hon. Minister has noted, there are certain political parties that are quite deceptive in the way they interpret information.

 

Sir, what is the confidence level? Has the hon. Minister availed the technocrats the confidence level of the information that he has presented to this House, or will he come back later and inform us since scientific measures are required to arrive at that information?

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, I thank my hon. Colleague for the follow up question. Yes, it is unfortunate that some people would misinterpret fairly straightforward inference. However, we have not calculated the confidence level. If that is required, I will have to find out whether that calculation is usually done because certainly, it is a statistical calculation which requires certain skills, and if need be, we could do the calculation and offer my hon. Colleague the information.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: I will take the last four interventions from the hon. Members for Kasama Central Constituency, Liuwa Constituency, Kasempa Constituency and Dundumwezi Constituency.

 

Mr Sampa (Kasama Central): Mr Speaker, the weather pattern has affected the water levels of our rivers thereby, affecting the generation of power. Further, there has been some assertions from some members of the public and also the United Party for National Development (UPND) who are claiming that the current load shedding which the country is facing is as a result of corruption.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Is a result of what?

 

Mr Sampa: Corruption, Mr Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Sampa: Could the hon. Minister explain to the nation the effects this has brought to the nation.

 

Mr Speaker: Sorry, what is the last part, hon. Member for Kasama Central?

 

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, I would love the hon. Minister to explain to the nation what effects the weather pattern has on the generation of power.

 

Mr Speaker: I will not allow the hon. Minister to respond because it is not within his portfolio

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity. Further, I would like to also thank the hon. Minister for the statement.

 

Sir, I note that there is a forecast for specific regions of the country. However, I find the approach to be a little bit unsatisfactory because when we consider the southern region of the country. I am particularly interested in what is going to happen in Liuwa. Somebody else may be particularly interested in what is going to happen in Senanga. Is it possible to give further details of that forecast maybe, by district or by constituencies? Further, is it possible for the hon. Minister to give us the behavioural parameters that have been taken into account, and the variables so that people at individual levels such as farmers and all interested people can do their own simulations? That way, they can get the results they are looking for.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank my hon. Colleague for the follow up question. Yes, it is possible to break down this information even to the district level because we have created weather maps. So, it is from the weather maps where we have determined the trend for the southern part the country and the northern part of the country. Therefore, clearly, it is possible. In fact, we already have the information which can speak to districts.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity. I would also want to thank the hon. Minister for the timely statement.

 

Sir, this ministry is a Siamese twin to various departments. Therefore, time and again, information on the weather conditions has been managed by this ministry. This information is critical as it is not only required by everyone, but it is also required continuously in shorter periods or durations. For instance, last year, there was frost in some parts of Lusaka. That frost damaged the crop, especially tomatoes and other crops which are susceptible to such conditions. Many farmers were not aware of such a hazardous condition coming through. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Meteorological Department sends out warnings to alert farmers in good time so that they are able to do something about it if they care.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity. I would also like to thank the hon. Member for the follow up question.

 Sir, as a ministry, our role is to establish the forecast and share the information. So, the information we establish is going to affect many stakeholders, including farmers. Therefore, when the information is shared, it must be seized by all stakeholders who wish to make use of it. Certainly, farmers fall under another ministry. Therefore, it would be inappropriate for us to begin to deal with the farmers. However, we have made a commitment that we are going to make available, the updated forecasts on a regular basis.

 

Sir, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: I will take the last intervention.

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he was aware, that starting last week and this week, we are going to have rains which have been experienced in the Eastern Province and the Northern Province. With the current weather pattern, would he advise the Ministry of Agriculture to encourage famers to start planting?

 

Mr Speaker: There are two parts to that intervention. The hon. Minister will only respond to the first part.

 

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. Colleagues for the first part of the two questions.

 

Sir, if my hon. Colleague cared to listen to the press release I issued in September, 2019, he could easily discover that we were aware that it was possible to have rain even before October. So, we spoke to that, and we were clear. Therefore, yes, we knew that rains could come as early as now.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

______

 

QUESTION FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

WOMEN AND YOUTHS EMPOWERMENT PROGRAMMES

 

27. Mr S. Banda (Kasenengwa) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare:

 

  1. whether there are any empowerment programmes for women and youths that will be implemented in Kasenengwa District in 2019;
  2. if so, what the programmes are; and
  3. when implementation of the programmes will commence.

 

The Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare (Ms Mulenga): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare is currently implementing two empowerment programmes in Kasenengwa District.

 

Sir, the two empowerment programme being implemented by the ministry in Kasenengwa District are as follows:

 

  1.  the Social Cash Transfer Programme; and
  2. the Food Security Pack Programmes.

 

Mr Speaker, the Social Cash Transfer Programme has 4,485 beneficiaries out of which 3,055 are female and 1,430 are male. The Food Security pack Programme is in Chiparamba/Kapara Ward and is supporting 487 beneficiaries out of which 308 female and 179 are male with farming inputs such as maize, fertilizer and legumes.

 

Sir, as mentioned in (b) above, the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare is already implementing the Social Cash Transfer and Food Security Pack Programmes and plans to implement other empowerment programme such as Village Banking in the district once funds are made available by the Treasury as the required implementing staff are already in existence.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr S. Banda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the ministry actually is implementing two key programmes which are the Social Cash Transfer Programme and the Food Security Pack Programme. I would like to know how often these programmes are updated in terms of implementation, to the targeted communities in Kasenengwa.

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I am sorry, I did not understand the question.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Repeat the question, hon. Member for Kasenengwa.

 

Mr S. Banda: Sir, I would like to know how current the statistics are, in terms of the implementation.

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, under the Social Cash Transfer Programme, the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare has been giving out funds per province. We are currently disbursing the funds for Lusaka Province and the Copperbelt Province. Our next target is Luapula Province and Muchinga Province. Thereafter, we will go into the Eastern Province. Under the Food Security Pack, we will begin the disbursement at the end of this month.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I am aware that the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare is supposed to undertake various programs to empower women and youths in all the Constituencies of the Republic of Zambia. However, the hon. Minister has just indicated that in Kasenengwa Constituency, the ministry is only going to undertake the Food Security Pack Programme and the Social Cash Transfer Programme.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that the Food Security Pack is usually targeted at vulnerable members of the community. Is the hon. Minister informing this House that the ministry has no other programmes to empower women and youths in the constituencies apart from the two she has mentioned?

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Leader of the Opposition for that question. I indicated that currently the two programmes being undertaken are the Social Cash Transfer Programme and the Food Security Pack Programme. History would remind us that Kasenengwa Constituency was part of Chipata Central Constituency, and under Chipata Central Constituency we had programs of supporting women livelihood and the village banking. However, Kasenengwa was recently declared a district. I indicated, in my answer, that we will be putting up other programmes like village banking. The hon. Leader of the Opposition should know that the core business of the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare is to support the vulnerable and that is what we do.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I would like to know when the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare last paid the women in Kasenengwa Constituency and other beneficiaries the Social Cash Transfer Fund. I would also like to know the period for which the ministry was paying this Fund.

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I indicated that we are paying per province.  I said that recently paid out the fund to beneficiaries in Lusaka Province and the Copperbelt Province, and that we will be paying out Luapula Province and Muchinga Province. After that, we will move into the Eastern Province. The last payment for the Eastern Province was made in January because we pay per Province.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: I will take the last three questions from hon. Members for Mumbwa, Kasempa and Nalikwanda.

 

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, as a follow up, ...

 

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to raise this point of order. Is the Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare in order not to have answered part of my question? The Question was, when did she last pay, and for which period was she paying the women and other beneficiaries in Kasenengwa Parliamentary Constituency. She could have paid in January when she was paying for arrears for November or December. Therefore, was she in order not to have answered my question?

 

Sir, I seek your serious ruling.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, as you continue responding to the questions please clarify that position.

 

Mr Nanjuwa: Mr Speaker, with regard to the Social Cash Transfer Programme, the hon. Minister has mentioned the number of beneficiaries in Kasenengwa Constituency. How much is owed to the beneficiaries of Kasenengwa Constituency as at 30th September, 2019.

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the payments, such as the one that was made in January, were being made in cycles depending on the availability of funds, and so as a ministry, we decided to pay the provinces in cycles.

 

 Mr Speaker, coming to the question by the hon. Member for Mumbwa, I want to inform the House that I do not have the actual figures in terms of how much is owed to the beneficiaries in Kasenengwa District. However, if he insists on knowing the figures, the guidelines clearly indicate how much the disabled, the women and child headed households are paid. That information can be availed. I hope that answers the hon. Member’s question.

 

 I thank you, sir

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister could you shed more light on what constitutes a cycle.

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, a cycle constitutes three months payment.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, are you able to relate that three months cycle to the question?

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, yes. When a beneficiary is paid in a cycle, it means that they have received payment for three months. Therefore, the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare has been paying each province every cycle because we do not have sufficient funds to pay the entire country at once. So, in making sure that the programme continues, we devised that payment plan of paying a particular province in each cycle.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, in the past, the women and youth empowerment programmes in all constituencies used to be funded in all the Constituencies. This funding was specifically for these programmes and outside other vulnerabilities such as the handicapped and the old and female headed households. However, that this is no longer happening. It looks like this is being lumped together with the Social Cash Transfer Programme when it is supposed be separated.

 

Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister share with us how the ministry has allocated this fund to every constituency and what has been done to ensure that all eligible women benefit from it without exclusion? When it comes to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) we receive a schedule which presents what every constituency has received. So, does the hon. Minister have a report or schedule that can assure us that women in all constituencies across Zambia, including in those in Kamatete, are benefiting from these programmes and that no one is being left behind.   

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, indeed, we have a schedule. I came before this House and said that there are 635,000 beneficiaries under the Social Cash Transfer Scheme and that our target for this year will be 700,000 beneficiaries. That way, we will not leave any woman behind.

 

 Mr Speaker, just to add more meat to what the hon. Member has indicated, if, for instance, she feels that women in her constituency are being left behind, the identification of these beneficiaries is clearly stipulated in the guidelines, and we have not yet reached our target for this year of 700,000 people. Hon. Members should tell their constituents to participate through the Community Welfare Assistance Committee (CWAC) and other elections which will be conducted this month so that more beneficiaries can be identified.

 

Sir, in addition, for transparency purposes, we are going the biometric way so that the intended beneficiaries get those monies. We are a transparent Government, and we shall surely not leave anyone behind.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said the Government conducts a biometric analysis to identify the vulnerable who qualify for the programme. She has given us a breakdown of that data by gender in Kasenengwa. It would be very useful for us hon. Members of Parliament to get the names of those who are on the programme so that we can interact with them as we go around in our constituencies. Is it possible for such data to be availed to us, constituency by constituency? 

 

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I said that we are going the biometric way, but we have not done it yet. For the sake of the record, we are launching the biometrics programme next week. The whole purpose is for us to know who is actually benefiting from the funds. This information will be availed from the headquarters, provincial offices and also at district level for the purpose of transparency. Hon. Members of Parliament will be able to walk through our district or provincial offices and obtain it. Immediately the money hits the accounts of these beneficiaries, it will clearly indicate who the beneficiaries are.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

_______

 

BILL

 

SECOND READING

 

THE NURSES AND MIDWIVES BILL, 2019

 

The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

 

Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government under the auspices of His Excellency the President, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, has embarked on a transformative agenda in pursuit of universal health coverage. In order to reposition our health systems to support our aspiration for universal health coverage, it has become necessary to undertake legislative reform. One such piece of legislation that is being affected is the Nurses and Midwives Act No. 31 of 1997.

 

Sir, nurses and midwives form the greater majority of the workforce in the health sector and run more than 70 per cent of health facilities in the country. It has become necessary to reform the law in order to give them legal protection to prescribe certain listed medications.

 

Sir, the Bill seeks to promote quality in the provision of nursing and midwifery education, training and care and streamline our relationship with sister organisations in the Ministry of Higher Education. Further, the Bill seeks to promote professional conduct among nurses and midwives and broaden their scope of professional practice.

 

Mr Speaker, the Nurses and Midwives Bill No. 14 of 2019 is progressive, hence, once enacted into law, it will greatly contribute towards Zambia’s effort to attain universal health coverage and improve the overall well-being of our people. This will be a significant contribution to our aspiration for a healthy and productive nation. I, therefore, invite my hon. Colleagues in this august House to support the enactment of this very progressive Bill into law for the sake of the people we serve.

 

Sir, I beg to move.

 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, once again, I thank you for this opportunity to present your Committee’s report on behalf of my hon. Colleagues on the Nurses and Midwives Bill, 2019 which, very gratefully, has finally seen the light of day on this Floor.

 

Sir, in accordance with its terms of reference as provided in the Standing Orders, your Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services was asked to scrutinise the Nurses and Midwives Bill No.14 of 2019, which was referred to it on Thursday, 1st August, 2019.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me, from the onset, to put on record that your Committee supports and welcomes this Bill and the various stakeholders that appeared before this Committee were also of the view that this Bill is long overdue.

 

Sir, given the changes in the dynamics of nursing professions overtime, the stakeholders expressed hope that the enactment of this Nurses and Midwives Bill into law will contribute to the achievement of universal health coverage by regulating the professional conduct of its members.

 

Mr Speaker, that said, let me bring to your attention one of the concerns which were raised by some of the witnesses that appeared during the meetings of the Committee under Clause 20. The stakeholders lamented that the seven days provided in the Bill within which a nurse or midwife was required to notify the registrar of any change in the particulars relating to registration was too short. They argued that the period was not realistic and that the provision was unlikely to be complied with. In this regard, the Committee agrees with stakeholders’ proposal that the reporting period should be increased from seven to at least thirty days.

 

Sir, with regard to Clause 51, some stakeholders were of the opinion that the requirement that a nurse or midwife should have a certificate of competence to prescribe medicines was a complex requirement. Taking into account concerns raised by stakeholders, the Committee is of the view that consideration should be given to increase the scope of practice to allow nurses to prescribe medications so as to improve access to care for people who had limited access to other medical practitioners. This was especially important in rural and remote areas where access was extremely limited.

 

Mr Speaker, under Clause 51, stakeholders were concerned that criminalising the act of prescribing medicines without a certificate of competence was very harsh. The stakeholders explained that nurses made up the majority of our health institutions and health workers and, importantly, were the health workers found in the remotest parts of the country.

 

Sir, stakeholders, in that regard, recommended that nurses should be allowed to prescribe drugs from a provided list of medicines according to their level of training and specialisation. Similarly, the Committee, in agreeing with his view, recommends that the training for nurses to be able to prescribe essential listed medicines should be compulsory and should be included in the curriculum for nursing and midwifery training.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me to also comment on Clause 52 of the Bill. The Committee observes with concern that a nurse or midwife who undergoes and completes a course to prescribe the listed medicines and allied substances will still be subjected to a prescribed fee before the issuance of the certificate of competence.

 

Sir, the Committee is concerned that charging nurses and midwives prescribers fee appears to suggest that the prescribing nurse will be earning more when that is not the case.

 

The Committee, therefore, recommends that the prescribed fee should be omitted in the Bill. In other words, there should be fee for those who will be allowed to prescribe.

 

Sir, currently nurses and midwives are already paying for practicing every year according to their level of training and specialisation. Therefore, there is no need to surcharge them for an additional skill which benefits the public and not the nurse or midwife.

 

Mr Speaker, let also highlight clause 74 (2) of the Bill. The Committee notes that a quorum at a meeting of the disciplinary committee shall be three. In agreeing with the submissions from most stakeholders who felt that three was too small a number for this purpose, the Committee is of the view that the quorum for any disciplinary committee be increased to five members.

 

Sir, as I conclude, I wish on behalf of the Committee to express our gratitude to you for granting us the opportunity to scrutinise this very important Bill. Further, I wish to thank the Clerk and her staff for the unwavering support to the Committee in looking at this Bill. Lastly, but not the least, I wish to pay tribute to all those witnesses who made both oral and written submissions to the Committee during consideration of this Bill.

 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the House, in its silence, for supporting this very progressive Bill. I further, wish to thank the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services for its comprehensive and well noted report. I want to assure the House and the Committee that we shall take into consideration their progressive submissions.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

 

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

 

Committee on Friday 11th October, 2019.

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

BUDGET 2020

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for allowing me to continue with my debate. Yesterday, before business was interrupted, the presiding officer said she was looking forward to enjoying my debate. Therefore, I promise that she will, indeed, enjoy my debate today. Sir, I hope that you will also enjoy my debate.

 

Mr Speaker, yesterday, I was trying to say that this Budget Speech is another gamble speech which could backfire and turn out to be President Edgar Lungu’s downfall, and I will justify that along the way.

 

Mr Ngulube: Question!

 

Mr Michelo: Historically, the Patriotic Front (PF) has had deficiencies in the managing of our economy, especially in the last five years of President Edgar Chagwa Lungu. Before taking over power in 2011, our hon. Colleagues in the PF thought that running Government was as easy as dancing to a song called “Dununa Reverse.” Managing a country is something very difficult. It requires people with progressive minds. I am worried that our country is being destroyed by the PF. Therefore, my only request to the people of Zambia is that come 2021, they should vote out the PF and bring in the United Party for National Development (UPND) so that we manage this country again.

 

Mr Speaker, on the 2020 National Budget, let me quote the hon. Minister of Finance’s speech. In paragraph 8, it states as follows:

 

“Sir, the theme for the 2020 Budget is therefore “Focusing National Priorities Towards Stimulating the Domestic Economy.” For this Budget to achieve its objectives, it will require us to deliver on our commitments with discipline, determination and dedication. This is in accordance with our National values and Principles of ethics, patriotism, national unity and integrity as enshrined in the Constitution. All of us, the public sector, the private sector, civil society and every Zambian are therefore called to focus our priorities towards building the Zambia we want. The time to act is now! Our resolve to do so must be firm.”

 

Sir, when I read this, my conclusion was that this theme was just coined by the hon. Minister in his mind. I do not think that the majority PF members can adhere to such a theme.

 

Mr Lusambo: Question!

 

Mr Michelo: Sir, it would be very difficult for the majority PF members because this House has approved different Budgets which have never worked at all. I am sure that even the budgets for the provinces which those who are saying “question” are responsible for did not perform well. It is possible that the funds allocated only managed to buy tear gas to use on Zambians. That is the only thing I have seen in this country.

 

Sir, let me now come to the budgetary allocation to the education sector in the 2020 National Budget. I will revert to passed budgetary allocations, which were as follows:

 

Year              Budgetary allocation in billion Kwacha (K)         Percentage of the total Budget

 

2017                          10.6                                                                 16.5

 

2018                          11.6                                                                 16.1

 

2019                          13.3                                                                 15.3

 

2020                          13.1                                                                 12.4

 

Mr Speaker, I wonder why the Budget allocation to education has reduced from K13.3 billion to K13.1 billion, representing 12.4 per cent of the total Budget. If this is the route we are going, then we will be destroying the education system in this country. How do we then expect schools to have desks? Under the PF, most of our children sit on the floor. I, therefore, do not expect our schools to improve. I thank the PF Government for introducing computer lessons in schools, but with this reduced allocation, I do not expect most of our schools to have computers.

 

Mr Speaker, I doubt meal allowances for students in public universities will be provided under this Budget. With regards to the pupil teacher ratio, I do not think it will be improved due to the small allocation to the Ministry of General Education. I also doubt if so many teachers will be recruited under this budget because it is too small. Coming to the morale of our teachers, I do not think they will be motivated because this budget is insufficient.

 

Sir, let me also speak about agriculture. I did not see any money allocated for dam construction and rehabilitation. Right now, if you went to Bweengwa Parliamentary Constituency, you would find that most of our dams and rivers are dry. I expected the hon. Minister to allocate money to the construction and rehabilitation of dams so that if at all God blesses us with rains this coming rainy season, there will be enough water to enable our farmers grow crops.

 

Mr Speaker, I did not see any money allocated to the sinking of commercial boreholes for our farmers, for example, in Bweengwa Parliamentary Constituency. No money was allocated for farm mechanisation either. When the President came to this House the year before last, he told the nation that he was going to introduce farm mechanisation so that farmers could use machinery on their farms. The world has gone digital, and therefore, almost every farmer needs to mechanise, but I cannot see anything happening in that regard.

 

Sir, due to the meagre allocation to the agriculture sector, we have seen an increase in the price of mealie meal in our country. Hon. Members will recall that in 2011, the Patriotic Front (PF) inherited a growing economy, and a 25 kg bag of mealie meal used to cost K35. In a period of eight years, the price has jumped from K35 to K150 per 25 kg bag of mealie meal. This PF Government found fuel costing K7 a litre, but now, it is at K16. The United States (US) Dollar was at K7 per US$1, but currently, it is K13 plus per US$1. I have also noted that electricity tariffs have gone up.

 

Mr Speaker, during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) era, we never experienced load shedding. Load shedding was introduced by our brothers and sisters in the PF. I doubt our economy is going to grow if we continue moving in this direction. When the PF took over power, it promised heaven on earth, but what I have seen is hell on earth, which is very bad for the people of Zambia.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Michelo: Sir, in this country, we have a number of dairy farmers who are using electricity to milk their animals and mix feed to feed their animals. Currently, I know that there are farmers who are highly mechanised such that they can leave their farms for ten to fourteen days while the robots do the milking, feeding and cleaning. Currently, most of these farmers are suffering because of the current PF regime’s failure .

 

Mr Speaker, let me come to the issue of fighting corruption in this country. I think the PF is not committed to this fight, and this is the reason it has failed to identify the owner of the forty-eight magical houses. How can this Government fail to find the owner of the forty-eight houses when we have the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, the Ministry of Local Government and the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation Limited (ZESCO), where records can easily be found? I think we need to come up with a mini-inquiry so that we can identify the person who removed the records of those forty-eight houses from the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources. I want to know the owner of those forty-eight houses.

 

Sir, there is no way you can allow a lion to herd the sheep and expect the number of sheep in the evening to be the same. It cannot work like that. Equally, you cannot allow a hyena to be in charge of your butchery. It is very dangerous for the people of Zambia to do that. We need to put our heads together so that we find the real owner of those forty-eight houses. The PF Government must not hide behind the figure. I am happy that our brother, the newly appointed hon. Minister of Finance, has not gone round this Budget Speech. This Budget Speech is a bit straightforward, and I commend him for that. He should continue on that trajectory and not lose track.

 

Mr Speaker, the people of Bweengwa, who are known as the Bweengwalian beings, are very straightforward when dealing with issues. 

 

Mr Speaker: What are you, again? I did not get you.

 

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, I said the “Bweengwalian beings.” We the people from Bweengwa are very straightforward, and we do not go round like a dog which is about lie down. We just hit the nail on the head. For example, in places such as Bweengwa, Namwala, Mumbwa and Itezhi-tezhi, there are no insults. 

 

Sir, when you hear me debate on the Floor of this House, sometimes, you tell me to debate in an honourable manner, I debate that way because we the people from Bweengwa hit the nail on the head. For the sake of the decorum of this House, I will definitely adhere to your advice. Otherwise, we are straightforward characters and this is how we live in Bweengwa.

 

Mr Mubukwanu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mubukwanu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to have raised your expectations and the expectations of Madam First Deputy Speaker that he was going to deliver a very good debate which both of you were going to enjoy?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mubukwanu: I note that he only has three minutes before his time expires. Is he in order not to start the debate so that the two of you can enjoy his debate?

 

Mr Speaker, I seek your serous ruling.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Bweengwa, indeed, you made a promise.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: However, so far, I do not think you have fulfilled it. Indeed, you have only three minutes and forty-two seconds to try and live up to your promise.

 

You may continue, hon. Member for Bweengwa.

 

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, let me not waste so much of your time because I know that there are so many hon. Members of Parliament who would like to debate.

 

Sir, let me simply say that one of our values in Bweengwa is that good friends do not forsake friends in times of hardships. When their friends are down and out, they never ignore them just because they have hit rock-bottom or adversity for one reason or another.

 

Mr Speaker, everything has a season. What I mean is that there are no permanent Governments. There is a time to be born and a time to die. There is a time to come in and a time to go out. For my colleagues in the PF Government, 2021will be their time to leave office. 2011 was the time for the PF to come into power. So, it should not expect to be in power permanently. It’s time to leave is coming, and that is in 2021 so that it can give chance to the people of Zambia to put people in the Government who can fix and manage this economy.

 

Mr Speaker, in view of the highlighted challenges, I declare the PF and its leader, Edgar Chagwa Lungu, a national disaster. The solution to this disaster is to kick the PF out and vote for the UPND and Hakainde Hichilema (HH) in 2021.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, resume your seat.

 

You know that the rules of the House do not permit you to debate the Head of State in that fashion. They do not. Let me seize this opportunity to just remind the House that we are debating a Motion here. I know there is temptation to try and convert this to a campaign platform, but it is not available for that purpose. If you want to debate your prospects or otherwise, use external fora, and not this one. So, withdraw the last part of that statement, hon. Member for Bweengwa.

 

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the statement.

 

Mr Speaker: Very well.

 

The Minister for Lusaka Province (Mr Lusambo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving the good people of Kabushi Constituency and Lusaka Province the time to add their voices to this important Motion, the 2020 National Budget whose theme is “Focusing National Priorities Towards Stimulating the Domestic Economy.”

 

Mr Speaker, on behalf of the people of Lusaka Province, I, as hon. Member of Parliament for Kabushi Constituency and hon. Minister for Lusaka Province, will tackle three important issues in this 2020 National Budget.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance, Dr Bwalya Ng’andu has promised that the 2020 National Budget will attend to the dismantling of domestic debt. Under the leadership of His Excellency, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu and Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, I have had the privilege of traveling to different places.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lusambo: Mr Speaker, I have just returned from China where we interacted with members of the Government of the good people of the Republic of China. The Chinese Government has placed benchmarks for its economy. By 2030, the Chinese Government wants to create its own billionaires so that the economy can be run by the Chinese people. This is exactly what this Budget is all about.

 

Mr Speaker, there is no country that has succeeded without the participation of its citizens. The hon. Minister, through this Budget, will pay the suppliers of goods and services to the Government. He will also attend to contractors. By doing so, the funds will trickle down to the ordinary people in Mpongwe, Masaiti, Kanyama, Kabushi and Lufwanyama. What we are lacking right now is liquidity in our compounds. However, the 2020 National Budget has given us hope, that when the Government starts to dismantle the domestic debt, the money will trickle down to all the people in all communities.

 

Mr Speaker, I listened to the debates from my hon. Colleagues on your left. They reduced the National Budget to a joke. The National Budget is not a PF budget, it is for the nation, and it affects people beyond political inclinations. So, when I see people debating a document like the National Budget on political lines and reducing it to a partisan paper, I wonder what type of people I am dealing with.

 

Mr Speaker, the President came to this House and gave hope to the people of Zambia through his national address. The hon. Minister of Finance also came to this House and presented a K106,007,612,236 Budget to the people of Zambia for them to know exactly how the money will be used. There is hope in this Budget for all well-meaning Zambians, apart from those people who want to do business as usual. There is a time to politick and a time to be serious. That time to be serious requires all of us to work together to promote unity and develop this country as a team.

 

Mr Speaker, let me borrow your words from just a few days ago when you gave counsel to the House that we are governing together. Mr Speaker, the hon. Members on the right and the hon. Members in the Opposition are governing together. However, going by the debate that has been going on in this august House from my hon. Colleagues on your left, it seems as if they live in a different world, we are not together. Governance is a collective responsibility, and this is why we are in this august House. We are here to change the lives of our people who have sponsored us to come to this august House.

 

We are not here to enjoy the tea and nice fritters we are served in the restaurant. We are here to add value to the development of this great country, Zambia. When we are here, we have to be serious with business. It is not politics as usual.

 

Mr Speaker, my second point is on climate change. The hon. Member for Mazabuka Central yesterday talked about the money which the Government has allocated towards mitigating the effects of climate change. The hon. Member said if we, as Government were serious, we would have doubled the allocation for climate change in the Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection. I would like to educate my hon. Colleague, who is not even in the House at the moment that the Government of His Excellency, Edgar Chagwa Lungu, President and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, is smart and that it does things in a smart way. The money allocated towards climate change is more than enough. This Government has allocated money to the line ministries such as the Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection and the Ministry of Defence.

 

Sir, we recently had a calamity in the Eastern Province where members of the defence forces had to put up bridges. So, this is why the Government of His Excellency Edgar Chagwa Lungu decided to allocate money in all ministries towards effects of climate change.

 

Mr Speaker, let me now come to my last point. Yesterday, the former Minister of Finance, Hon. Situmbeko Musokotwane expressed concern over the contraction of debts. If the previous Governments like the one he served in as Minister of Finance, contracted debts for development the way we have done, then we would not have borrowed this time around. If our colleagues go round the streets of Lusaka, they will see how we have managed to transform Lusaka Province. This transformation is not only in Lusaka, but it is on the Copperbelt Province as well.

 

 Sir, the President came to this House to update us about national issues because he is honest. He is not like other political party leaders who have denied and failed to explain their participation in the privatisation of companies. To date, they have failed to answer questions from the people of Zambia. There are other Opposition political party leaders who have also failed to answer simple questions about the disappearance of the railway line between Ndola and Luanshya. However, the President came to this House and told the people of Zambia that the Government is borrowing for development, which every Zambian is seeing.

 

Sir, Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKI) is not for the President alone but for all Zambians. Everyone, whether from the Opposition or not, will use that airport. The roads we are constructing under the Decongest Lusaka Project are not for the President. They are for the public. The public is there to see the good development which the Government is giving them.

 

Mr Speaker, when it is time to debate serious issues like the Budget, I do not see why people should talk about losing elections. I doubt whether those talking about elections are Zambians. Election will come and −

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, I have already given guidance on that, and of course, from your indication, you also do not agree.  So, do not dwell on it.

 

Mr Lusambo: Mr Speaker, it was just a thought. For us in Lusaka Province, we pledge to support the 2020 Budget because it has a lot of benefits for the people of Zambia.

 

Sir, with these few words, I would like to support the hon. Minister of Finance and tell him that he presented a very good Budget. The people of Zambia are excited because in this Budget, there are allocations for good projects such as the Kafue Bulk Water Supply and Sanitation Project which will provide water not only to Edgar Chagwa Lungu at State House but to the people of Zambia and Lusaka, in particular.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

 

Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to debate the Budget on behalf of the great people of Bwana Mkubwa Constituency.

 

Mr Livune:  On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province has indicated that one person has failed to inform the nation where the railway line between Ndola and Luanshya is. Is he in order not to inform this House and the nation that the Patriotic Front (PF) has failed to tell the nation who the owner of the forty-eight houses is. Is he in order not to tell the nation that he has failed to do that?

 

Mrs Chinyama: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Dundumwezi, your point of order has number of pitfalls. First of all, it is not competent for you to raise a point of order on the hon. Minister. For the record, Provincial Ministers are Ministers. Therefore, you cannot raise a point of order on an hon. Minister. Secondly, through the purported point of order, you are virtually debating. That is also incompetent.

 

Could the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa continue with his debate.

 

Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was thanking you for giving me an opportunity to debate the Budget on behalf of the great people of Bwana Mkubwa Constituency.

 

Firstly, allow me to thank the hon. Minister of Finance for the very progressive and bold measures that he has brought in the 2020 Budget. I will be deliberately slow because there are some issues that I also need to address which our hon. Colleagues on your left have raised in the course of this debate. With your permission, I have a copy of the 2020 Budget with me here so that I am on the script, but I also have another copy, which I will lay on the Table. This other copy is the United Party for National Development (UPND) alternative 2020 budget dated 25th September, 2019.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me to be magnanimous because since I came to Parliament I have been one of those who have criticised our hon. Colleagues on your left that instead of whining and complaining, they need to provide alternative solutions. To their credit, they have given us an alternative budget. I will reference the alternative budget to the Budget presented by the hon. Minister of Finance, which is how it should be. However, the only challenge is that the alternative budget that the UPND has brought can be likened to treating a patient and the medicine is worse than the disease.  Since the hon. UPND Members have not denied ownership of this budget, we take it that it is theirs.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Chanda: I mean it is like someone has malaria, and instead of giving that patient coartem, you give them rogo which kills both the patient and the malaria parasites.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, that is what the UPND has brought in their alternative budget. No wonder none of hon. UPND Members, including the former Minister of Finance, has referenced this document. I will explain why they are all avoiding their alternative budget. It is like a leprosy document, and no one wants to be infected. I will lay this alternative budget by the UPND on the Table.

 

Mr Speaker, when you look at what the UPND has said in this document, which I will urge every Zambian to read, you will see the Opposition is not ready for governance. They are actually propagating old tired ideas by the oldest Opposition party in the history of Zambia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: For example, what they are propagating here, which really shocked me, is Import Substitution Industrialisation (ISI). It is there in black and white in their own document. I was shocked because when you contrast with what the hon. Minister of Finance brought, an Export Oriented Industrialisation versus an Import Substitution Industrialisation. For those who do not understand, the hon. UPND have phones and can google what ISI means. This is the definition of ISI which our colleagues are trying to force on Zambians once more, trying to kill the patient with the medicine which is worse than the disease. This is what I mean by likening this policy to poison. ISI is a policy which advocates replacing foreign imports with domestic production pursued, ...

 

Mr Kambita: What is wrong with that?

 

Dr Chanda: Just listen!

 

  ... by developing countries in the 20th Century. This is the 21stCentury, by the way.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: Here are the components of ISI; the first one is nationalisation of vital industries. The UPND has always prided to be a private, capitalist kind of party, but now it is propagating the nationalisation of industries. The second one is high tax rates. This is ISI.

 

Mr Kambita: You do not understand!

 

Dr Chanda: I wonder how someone will just deny their own budget here, when I am just explaining what ISI entails. In case the hon. UPND Members were not consulted when concocting this alternative budget –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, resume your seat.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kambita: Who are you to lecture us?

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, if you have elected, as you have, to refer to that document, just refer to it. However, do not directly engage your hon. Colleagues across the Floor. Just refer to the document. If there are commentaries of any sort coming or emanating from the other side, leave that to me. Just focus on your debate. Do not enter into a dialogue with them

 

You may continue with your debate.

 

Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, thank you for your protection. I understand why this is a very touchy subject but I will debate through you.

 

Mr Speaker, I was saying ISI components are very clear. One, it is nationalisation of vital industries, number two, high tax rates, number three subsidies, number four, over-valued currency. By this I mean instances where you artificially over-value the currency. Number five, system undermined quality of goods, number six, protective barriers to trade, number seven, high social and economic costs, number eight, system kept prices high, number nine, system reduced innovation and inefficiency. You will kill all the innovation to create inefficiency. That is ISI which our colleagues are trying to propagate. These were failed ideas that were mostly run by socialist countries in the 20th Century. In fact, when you read Google, it concludes by saying that ISI was abandoned by countries in the 1980s and 1990s, that is what it says. These are not my words. So, if you are here propagating ideas which belong to the Stone Age and you feel and think that you are ready to govern and lead the economy of Zambia, then have more home work to do. You have another twenty or fifty years to read.

 

Mr Speaker, I sympathise with our colleagues. I mean on face value if anyone brings a Stone Age idea, you are supposed to reject such an idea, but this is what happens when people are just accepting things. I wish the former hon. Minister of Finance, who belongs to a party that removed the United Nation Independence Party (UNIP) from power, a party which was propagating these ideas, should have been here. I really doubt if he is the one who authored this alternative budget.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, resume your seat again.

 

You see, what you are doing now, specifically, is that you are debating a colleague. The best way to proceed with minimum interjections from the Chair is to focus on issues. You have the material, in fact, you have got two documents, the speech by the hon. Minister of Finance and the document that you intend to lay on the Table of the House. Focus on those documents then we will make progress.

 

Continue with your debate.

 

Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I thought I should start with the alternative budget. However, since it is not worth the paper it is written on, I will dispense with it and lay it on the Table. What I was saying is that Zambians out there should take our hon. Colleagues for what they are offering. If I was a patient and went to someone whom I know will be giving me rogo, I would not even enter that person’s consulting room. Why should I do that?

 

Mr Speaker, I will contrast some of the deficiencies which our hon. Colleagues have propagated with what is in the 2020 Budget. I will do that so that it is plainly there for everyone to see.

 

Mr Kambita: What is there to see?

 

Dr Chanda: They are talking about the taxation policy. They are not mentioning to us how they will bring back the offshore accounts. You know some of them have money in offshore accounts. How will they bring that money from the tax havens so that it can circulate in the economy and benefit the citizens?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: They are talking about providing reliable electric energy without telling us how it will be provided. The problem we have with this document is that it does not show how things will be done. It just highlights issues like electric energy and taxation. This shows that our colleagues are not ready to govern. Governing a country is not a simple matter. It is very complex.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, having spent a bit of time on the so called alternative budget, let me now go to the 2020 Budget.

 

Sir, I want to explain this very clearly and ill start with part one, which is on Global and Domestic Economic Developments in 2019. When the hon. Minister of Finance was presenting the Budget, he clearly stated three key issues that are affecting the economic growth of Zambia. The first issue was the adverse climatic conditions, a fact which our colleagues here are denying, yet that is highly acknowledged in their alternative budget. When you read their alternative budget, you will note that it says global economic growth is slowing down because of climatic conditions. It is there in their document, yet our hon. Colleagues deny it on the Floor of the House. So, I do not know how their party coordinates its activities. Anyway, that is none of my business.

 

Mr Speaker, what I am saying is that the hon. Minister of Finance clearly stated that climatic conditions are affecting our agriculture and electricity generation. If you talk about electricity generation, which is the input in the mining sector, manufacturing and every other sector including small businesses are all affected. As we talk right now, we have a shortage of water. The water levels at Kariba Dam are critically low. The water can only produce electricity maybe for just next sixty days. That is why the Government and the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) are contemplating on importing electricity because we do not want to politic but offer tangible solutions to this problem.

 

Mr Speaker, the second reason that the hon. Minister of Finance gave for the slow growth is the decline in copper output coupled with lower prices. As you know, copper accounts for 65 per cent of all our exports and 80 per cent of our foreign exchange earnings. Now, two things have happened to copper, the first one is that the low grade in most of the copper ores in our mines has affected productivity. The second thing is that the global copper prices have gone down. So, these two issues about copper have affected growth. The hon. Minister of Finance alluded to the third factor which is the tight liquidity conditions in our economy. Yes, the hon. Minister acknowledges that we are servicing debt, which has been reflected in the domestic arrears. However, the difference between us and our colleagues is that rather than whining and crying, we have tangible solutions which I will explain.

 

Mr Speaker, on debt management policy, the hon. Minister of Finance has, on Page 14 of the 2020 Budget Speech, outlined four key measures which the Government will undertake. These are:

        

  1. slowdown external debt contraction;
  2. postpone or cancel some pipeline loans;
  3. cease the issuance of guarantees; and
  4. refinance existing loans.

 

Sir, that is what our Debt Management Policy is about. In our Colleagues’ document, it just says we need legal reforms in debt management, full stop. I do not know what that means.

 

Sir, on dismantling debt arrears, the hon. Minister of Finance clearly brought a strategy indicating that the PF Government is increasing the allocation to reduce the stock of domestic arrears, which we are doing in this Budget. A lot of money has been allocated to dismantling domestic arrears. There is also use of debt swaps to liquidate part of the outstanding debt arrears and increase control systems to curb further allocation. So, that is our debt management policy and debt arrears dismantling strategy, which is very clearly outlined in the 2020 Budget.

 

Mr Speaker, again, I want to avoid debating my hon. Colleagues, but there are some facts you cannot deny in history. Before the PF Government came to power, we had the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. We had a long lecture from a former hon. Minister of Finance the other day telling us how well the MMD managed the economy and all that. However, you have guided us time and again that our debates have to be well informed, factual and well researched.

 

Sir, I did a bit of research, and I was looking at the Human Development Index (HDI), which is the key measure of how our country is doing. The HDI has three indicators that you follow. The first one is life expectancy, which states how long people live. The second is access to education and knowledge. The third is the standard of living, which is shown as per capita income. When you look at the HDI under the MMD Government from 2001 to 2011, it was much lower than it was under the United National Independence Party (UNIP). Under the PF today, the HDI for Zambia is much higher than it was when our hon. Colleagues were in power. These are facts, and we are not just propagating things under the PF Government. So, I do not know what development they can come to lecture us on. The only difference is that while our hon. Colleagues were boasting about US$3 billion in foreign reserves, they were too stingy to invest it in human development.

 

Hon PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: I mean, what is the point of having money in the house then you are dying of hunger? This is what we call starvation in the midst of plenty. That is the problem because the MMD Government had money, but it could not build schools, hospitals, roads or invest in education. What else were they investing in? That is the sign of stinginess, greediness and lack of care for the people. So we are doing the opposite. When people complain – I have heard some hon. Members saying that they do not know where the money being borrowed has gone. I remember that at one point, I was thinking, or I read somewhere in the Bible where it says that they have eyes, but they do not see. It seems that it is possible to be blind while you are looking.

 

Mr Speaker, when you look at where we are applying the debt, we are simply trying to close these huge developmental gaps that we inherited from the MMD. In my language, we say mpyanango apyana namabala, which means that he who inherits an estate inherits everything, including fields to be tilled and tendered. So we have inherited a lot of problems

 

Sir, the Opposition is criticising the road tolling programme. Those who have done economics and looked at opportunity costs know that from 1964 until now, we had no tollgates.  If we had road tolls, we would not have borrowed money to make roads because we could have made a lot of money from the tolling programme. We have just been told by the hon. Minister of Finance,    in his Budget Address, that in just one year, the Government collected K700 million plus under the road tolling programme. Now, do your math and you will see that fifty something years of no road tolling means that the country has lost billions of dollars because of sleepy Governments that were there before us. So, we in the PF are trying to address historical imbalances.

 

Mr Speaker, the same issue applies in every sector, whether it is hospitals, schools or roads which we have built. I mean certain individuals were asking if people were going to eat roads when we started the Link Zambia 8,000 Km Roads Project (Link Zambia 8,000), Lusaka 400 Km Roads Project (L 400) and the Copperbelt 400 Km Roads Project (C 400). Now the language has changed. They want more roads. They are demanding the same roads that they said that they will not eat because that is what we saw on paper. The hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development has more questions than any other hon. Minister in this House. So,  now I wonder whether roads have now been added onto the menu of the Opposition’s development plans. Roads are now top of their list. Are they now eating roads? I want to educate the  Opposition with what the former United States (US) President John F. Kennedy said, and I quote:

 

“It is our roads that created our wealth. It is not our wealth that created our roads.”

 

Sir, roads bring about development. Development does not bring about roads. That is why in the PF Government, we have prioritised road infrastructure development because we understand their importance.

 

Hon PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: By the way, it is very fashionable for the Opposition to whine and cry. However, the best way to know if a road has been constructed is when the Opposition no longer talk about it. Not long ago, we had people threatening to match naked over the Solwezi/Chingola Road. Now it must have been constructed because the people who were issuing that threat are fully clothed.

 

Hon PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, some of them are even wearing ama lazi (lace). Ama lazi are those shinny things for women.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Chanda: I have even seen men wearing that. Every day people were whining and crying about the Mazabuka/Kafue Road right here. Nowadays, it is quiet and you cannot even hear crickets in the room. That silence is a sign that the road is being done. So, whenever you hear some noise, and then it is all quiet, just know that the PF Government under the able leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, is working on that. We are doing a lot. Actually, we are doing what no other Government has done in the past.

 

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by, again, just thanking the hon. Minister of Finance and His Excellency President Edgar Lungu, for the very progressive Budget under very difficult conditions which we are addressing. I want to assure the Zambian people that this PF Government is more than able to address their issues. One of the progressive issues in this Budget, which Zambians would love to know, is that the bold decision to maintain the Value Added Tax (VAT) system instead of the Sales Tax is not because of pressure from any Opposition. It is because this is a listening Government. We could have implemented it, and talked about other consequences, but we said that we should consult further because in our party, there is democracy. We are not tin pot dictators.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: Sir, for instance, this alternative budget which was laid on the Table, I am sure many people were not consulted, but in our party we consult.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: Yes, we consult. So that is why the Sales Tax has been shelved, and instead, continue with the VAT. However, the hon. Minister of Finance has not only rested on his laurels, he has gone ahead to zero-rate the mining equipment so that when mining companies bring in equipment, they will not have these claims that we have always been talking about. For the VAT claims which you cannot substantiate, the Government is taking care of that.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has clearly emphasised on the increased use of Electronic Financial Devices (EFDs). What we want is to ensure many Zambians get notifications on their mobile phones whenever their salaries are credited to their accounts as is the case with most hon. Members here. That way, people will just look at their phones and when they get a notification, they will say zangena. The other day, one hon. Member on your left was wondering why there are no queues in the banks. So, I wondered whether or not he was not aware that there is zangena everywhere. People are now using electronic devices. So the same way individuals are using electronic devices, is the same way we want the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) to be operating. ZRA can be monitoring these transactions in time. Everything can be done on the phone. This is an electronic era. So we do not expect queues outside the bank snaking around. Those days belonged to UNIP and MMD days. We now live in an electronic era.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to conclude on a very serious note. I have seen a lot of display of lack of patriotism in debating this Budget, and specifically on the amounts of money allocated to Public Order and Safety for the men and women in uniform who take care of our domestic and external security. People are almost making fun of them and asking why we need security.

 

Sir, I would actually state that the number one item which any society needs or any country needs is security. That is because without security, it does not matter how much economic growth a country accrues it is bound to lose everything one day. That is why we are saying can we modernise and equip the Zambia Police, Zambia Army, marine forces and others. Even on the issue of the President, the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, being found with the Special Forces in Mbala, people are making fun of it, yet these are the men and women who take care of us when we are sleeping or when we are chewing whatever we are chewing. They are protecting us.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to assure the men and women in uniform that the PF Government puts a high premium on them in terms of their accommodation and their equipment. We want them to be a modern Police Service, Zambia Army, Zambia Air Force (ZAF) and marine corp. This country has to be ready to defend its borders anytime. No one wishes for war, but we should never rule it out. No one should take security for granted.

 

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr S. Banda (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to debate this Motion. Firstly, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance for acquitting himself well during the 2020 Budget Address.

 

Mr Speaker –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the chair]

 

Mr S. Banda: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was just congratulating the hon. Minister of Finance for acquitting himself well during the 2020 Budget Address. Indeed, he was an emissary from the President. This means he was a bearer of the message from His Excellency the President. Therefore, this Budget is a message from the President. Certainly, the hon. Minister was prolific and a proficient bearer of the message from His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu.

 

Madam, bearing in mind that the hon. Minister of Finance is a messenger, our hon. Colleagues on your left should know that the owner of the message is His Excellency the President. So, that being the case, it would only be right that if there are any commendations towards this Budget, even as we talk about the Sales Tax and Value Added Tax (VAT), our hon. Colleagues must give commendations to His Excellency the President because the hon. Minister of Finance is just an emissary, the carrier or the bearer of the message.

 

Madam Speaker, like I said, not doing that borders on hypocrisy and the highest level of insincerity. We know hypocrisy when we see it. Every time our hon. Colleagues on your left rise to debate, we, on this side of the House see hypocrisy in them. The face of hypocrisy shows itself on the Floor. Otherwise, that should not be the case.

 

Madam Speaker, from the onset, I would like to underscore that even before I delve into the thematic issues, allow me to say that one cannot save the past, but can serve the future. So, the past is in the annul of history. The only possibility we have is the future. However, the past brings forth the following theme: hindsight, which is understanding an event or situation when it has happened.

 

Madam Speaker, hindsight brings about experience, lessons learnt, policy direction or, indeed, decision making which are evidence based. Therefore, this Budget demonstrates that. Accordingly, the Patriotic Front (PF) under the leadership of the His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, has hindsight and experience which our friends on the left do not have. For instance, the PF has hindsight in terms of providing internal democracy because leadership starts at home. The PF has demonstrated that it can provide leadership and internal democracy. Our President is a product of internal democracy. Our party has been having intra-party elections. If you asked our friends on the left when they last held a party convention, you will be told that they do not know. Not at all! They do not uphold the principles of internal democracy yet leadership stems from there.

 

Madam Speaker, further, hindsight provides tested and approved leadership, and this is the nature of the PF. Due to the hindsight leadership of the PF, the President has provided policy direction in form of this Budget.

 

Madam, the PF leadership has relevant experience and lessons learnt because we have experience and hindsight. In fact, this Budget is as a result of the experience and lessons learnt, which we have been going through which our hon. Colleagues on the other side of the House do not have. To that effect, this demonstrates the kind of alternative budget which was brought to this House. It was full of nothing, but hollow. It does not provide any policy direction.

 

Madam Speaker, I am talking about leadership because budgeting is about leadership. It is about understanding where one is coming from, where we are, where we want to go and what are the issues which have confronted us. This has to go with hindsight and leadership which is consistent. For instance, the leadership of our hon. Colleagues has had a cycle of five to six vice-presidents, while the PF has had only two. Actually, this demonstrates that there is consistency in our party.

 

Mr Kamboni: What budget is that?

 

Mr S. Banda: This is about leadership. Like I said, budgeting is about leadership.

 

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr S. Banda: If there is no leadership, then you have lost it.

 

Madam Speaker, one of our leaders was tested when he participated in the privatisation parastatals in the country. However, the news from that experience tells us that he failed. Instead, he amassed wealth from the privatisation. Nonetheless, I cannot blame our hon. Colleagues on your left because their party’s ideology stands for maximisation of profits, while we our policies are based on people-centred leadership.

 

Madam, further, …

 

Laughter

 

Dr Musokotwane: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for allowing me to raise a point of order.

 

Madam, as you very well know, I rarely rise on points of order. We have been listening to the gentleman on the Floor for close to eight minutes, and I have been listening very carefully to try and connect what he is saying and the Budget proposals. So far, I cannot make any connection. Is he in order to continue debating the Budget by talking about things that are totally different from the Budget proposals.

 

Madam, I need your serious ruling.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: My ruling is that I think he was just about to start connecting the issues, ...

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … and he will make that connection now. You may continue, hon. Member for Kasenengwa.

 

Mr S. Banda: Madam Speaker, pillar number five of the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP) hinges on governance. It has to do with leadership, and leadership has to be demonstrated by the kind of Budget that is brought on the Floor.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr S. Banda: Madam Speaker, behold, the foresighted leadership has brought this Budget which is a basis for creating a future we so desire. This Budget has taken into account the past so that we understand where we are coming from. This is because we need to understand what has confronted us as a people and provide solutions. Thus, the theme of the Budget is “Focussing National Priorities Towards Stimulating the Domestic Economy.” Someone here said that this theme itself is misplaced. To the contrary, we in the Patriotic Front (PF) understand that if we have to develop as a nation, we need to optimally exploit our local human and natural resources, and this Budget has provided the solution to doing that.

 

Madam, this Budget has provided the basis for stimulating our national economy from within. We must not shy away from dealing with challenging or thorny issues. I will deal with two thorny issues for one simple reason, which is that someone came in this House and purported that we have been debating the 9.9 per cent discretionary expenditure left in the Budget after servicing debts. I want to show you that debt has a bearing on the lives of ordinary Zambians.

 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about external debt. From ancient days to date, administrations have continued to acquire funding from different sources. The process of social and economic development requires public borrowing. Show me a country which has developed without public borrowing. There is none. Before I delve into some of the issues that have been brought out, I want to say that in the case of Zambia, the debt we have contracted as a country has accrued benefits to the common Zambian on the ground. For example, the road network, including the rural road network, has improved. Airports, communication infrastructure, health posts, clinics, hospitals, marine infrastructure, have been constructed. The list is endless. This has a direct impact on the lives of the people. How have we financed this economic infrastructure? It is through debt.

 

Madam Speaker, under the leadership of His Excellency, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, debt was, and will be contracted for capital expenditure. One of the hon. Members on your left came on the Floor and asked why we should borrow further. I have been hearing complaints on roads such as the Watopa/Katunda Road and the Livingstone/Sesheke Road. Where do the people on the left think he Government gets the money to bring development? It is through contracting of debt.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to demonstrate that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government understands where it is and how it will help itself out of this situation and make headways. In paragraph 93 of the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister announced that he was going to deal with the debt. He also talked about dismantling domestic debt arrears as a policy direction and provided how he will do that. In paragraph 93, he said:

 

“Mr Speaker, prudent management of debt remains a key priority to ensure that debt is maintained within sustainable levels. To this end, the Government will:

 

  1. Slowdown external debt contraction;
  2. Postpone or cancel some pipeline loans;
  3. Cease the issuance of guarantees; and
  4. Refinancing existing loans.”

 

Madam Speaker, these are action points. If you went through the alternative budget for the United Party for National Development (UPND), you would find that there is no suggestion on how it will deal with that matter. It has no hindsight and no experience on how to run a Government. One wonders why it is parading itself as an alternative Government when it does not have the experience to run the Government. The Government will dismantle arrears on one end and acquire debt on the other end. Debt is meant to improve economic infrastructure, while dismantling of arrears is focused on entrepreneurs. When an entrepreneur is financed, he will improve his productivity and contribute to the country’s bottom-line, and the bottom-line is the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). When that happens, income per capita will improve. Consequently, the lives of people will improve. However, somebody came in this House and purported that this Budget does not affect ordinary Zambians. It does!

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to go further. Our hon. Colleagues on your left were insinuating and asking why the Government has projected 3 per cent GDP for next year. Let me give a brief background. In 2017, the GDP rate for sub-Saharan countries was 2.5 per cent. In 2018, it was downgraded to 2.3 per cent. In 2019, it is projected to rebound to about 2.8 per cent, and in 2020, it is projected to grow to 4 per cent. We need to understand context, where we are coming from and the issues which have confronted us. Therefore, 3 per cent growth is a modest growth considering the issues which have confronted us as a people.

 

Madam Speaker, an hon. Colleague on your right equated the lack of queues in banks to the ill performance of an economy. That is a myopic school of thought. How could someone equate that to non-performance of the economy, when the strategy of banks is to reduce physical banking by promoting other services such as mobile or digital banking services? There is online and mobile banking and Automated Machines (ATMs), but somebody came here and purported that the economy is not performing well because there are no queues in banks. That is shallow thinking.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, withdraw the words “shallow thinking.”

 

Mr S. Banda: Madam Speaker, I withdraw it and replace it with “myopic kind of thinking.”

 

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

                        

Mr S. Banda: Madam Speaker, hon. Opposition Members ought to be objective when they come to this House. They ought to be objective and magnanimous. This Budget has provided solutions, it has non-debatable issues, but they come here and speak issues that are contrary. In any case, I am not surprised because even if we the hon. Members of the PF danced on water, they would accuse us of raising dust because they are unreal. Meanwhile they are supposed to be the alternative Government.

 

Madam, allow me to underscore that this Budget is the future. It provides the basis on which we can build our nation. It creates the basis on which we can create the Zambia we desire and it identifies the real issues which have confronted us as a people. For example, debt is one such issue.  Further, we understand the domino effects of arrears, hence the Government providing for them.

 

Madam Speaker, to this effect, we as the PF support this Budget because it has provided solutions and explained the background of the economy. This Budget will help us to get out of this situation.

 

Madam, that said, I support this Budget

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, on behalf of my fellow countrymen, the people of Kalomo Central and my beloved party, the United Party for National Development (UPND), I would like to thank you  for giving me this opportunity.

 

Madam, before I come to my speech, I want to correct the things that have been said.

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam, firstly, the hon. Minister for the Eastern Province and the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwana Mkubwa mentioned that the US$3 billion in the country’s reserves was used to make roads and other things for the country. However, the question is: What is the purpose of money that is put in the reserves? I am sure the hon. Minister of Finance agrees with me.

 

Madam Speaker, to the contrary, this is what the hon. Minister of Finance said on page 4 and paragraph 25 of his speech:

 

“The reduction in reserves was attributed to external debt service payments.”

 

Madam Speaker, this money was not used for the things that the people on your right have mentioned, and the public deserves to have the correct picture.

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

 

Mr Kamboni: Yes! You can open page 4 of the Budget Speech, and you will see that in paragraph 25, the hon. Minister said that:

 

“The reduction in reserves was attributed to external debt service payments.”

 

Mr Mung’andu:  On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwiinga: Sit down iwe!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

 Resume your seat, hon. Member for Kalomo Central.

 

Mr Mwiinga: A big head is a problem!

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Iwe chakana! Kala!

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, I rarely stand on points of order, but today, I am compelled to do so. We are guided by our Standing Orders to always be factual in our debates.

 

Madam, is the hon. Member of Parliament in order to insinuate that what the hon. Minister for the Eastern Province and the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa said regarding our reserves being low because of development programmes is false? In his preamble, the hon. Member argued that what the hon. Members who spoke before him said was contrary to what the hon. Minister said in his Budget Speech.  It is clear that the debt the country is servicing –

 

Mr Chabi: You are debating!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Chama South, I know that you debated yesterday, and I would not like you to use this time to debate. However, if you do have a point of order, state it now.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Madam Speaker, thank you.

 

Madam, is the hon. Member for Kalomo Central in order to mislead this House and the public by saying that the country’s reserves are low because the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has not invested money into national development, when in fact, the money that we are repaying has gone to infrastructure which is directly related to these reserves?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chama South has debated his point of order, and the hon. Member for Kalomo Central will continue with this debate.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam, now I see why our economy is upside down.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Continue with your debate hon. Member.

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam, I am talking about money in the reserves which is meant to stabilise our currency. When it is depleted, it means our currency will be unstable. When our currency loses value because the money in the reserves is low, all prices increase. If the Kwacha depreciates to K13 per US$1, for example, then the price of fuel and goods will increase, and that is very dangerous for the economy. The money that has remained in the reserves is in the danger zone, which means that the whole economy is shaky. My explanation is that the money in the reserves was not used for investment like the two hon. Members of Parliament said. My argument is supported by what the hon. Minister of Finance said on page 4, paragraph 25 of his speech, where the reduction in reserves was attributed to external debt service payments. That is the point of correction I was making.

 

Madam, further, the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province compared China to Zambia, but the Chinese have been very smart.

 

Ms Siliya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mwiinga: Aba nabo!

 

Ms Siliya: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member who is debating in order to totally attempt to mislead the House and the nation by saying that the strength of a currency is purely a function of reserves and not a positive balance of payments from trade? Even in the Bible, there is a story where a person who buried his money was not going to make anything, and God decided to punish him. Therefore, is he in order to mislead this House with uninformed economics?

 

Madam, I need your serious ruling.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: In so far as that is the understanding of the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, he is in order.

 

You may continue with your debate, hon. Member.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province compared China to Zambia. We have a Budget where 50 per cent is going to salaries, 41 per cent is going to debt servicing, leaving 9 per cent for other things. Surely, the Chinese have been smarter than us. They are taking our money to their country to improve the lives of their people. What are we giving the Zambian people? We are giving them high taxes and poverty. These are the problems we are currently facing because of such issues. Therefore, I do not agree with him.

 

Madam, the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwana Mkubwa stated why there is a decline in the country’s economic growth, and he was correct. However, he never mentioned corruption.

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Chanda: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Dr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I have been struggling to follow the line of thought of the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central. The subject matter today is the 2020 Budget, and the alternative budget from the United Party for National Development (UPND). Is the hon. Member of Parliament who is debating in order to ignore these two documents, which include the budget from his party which he has not even referred to? Is he in order to drag me into his debate in a very misinformed manner?

 

Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member for Kalomo has decided to rebut what was said by the hon. Members on the right, and in his rebuttal, he is stating the specific issues that he wants to rebut. In that regard, the hon. Member for Kalomo Central is in order.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiinga: 3:0!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member on the Floor continue with his debate.

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Speaker, may I now come to my speech. The hon. Minister of Finance should have started by apologising to the people of Zambia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Kamboni: The Ministry of Finance has a duty to ensure that the tax that Zambians pay is protected. The Government’s resource envelop is very porous, and it has a big hole. We read in the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) report that K6.1 billion was misappropriated, and the hon. Minister of Finance did not explain anything to the Zambians. Why should Zambians continue being taxed when we have a huge chunk of money being misappropriated? In my view, the Minister of Finance should have apologised to the Zambians, and told them what is being done to seal the loopholes. We need the Government to come up with a system that will stop money from being taken so easily because we are all suffering by paying the taxes which the country needs.

 

Madam Speaker, the theme of the 2020 Budget is as follows: “Focusing National Priorities Towards Stimulating the Domestic Economy” but taking away everything from the Zambians and in return giving them poverty through load shedding and severe suffering. This is what this Budget is all about. Why do I say so? To begin with, let me look at Kalomo Central Constituency, my constituency which has benefitted nothing from this Budget. Right now people are dying of hunger, but there is no solution to that.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Question!

 

Mr Kamboni: This Budget does not have anything for township roads in Kalomo Central Constituency. Further, sixty-six schools in my constituency have dry boreholes, and one of them closed last week because there is no water, yet the Government is mute. Kalomo Central Constituency has no boreholes and no dams, and the commercial farmers are about to leave. Commercial farmers in Kalomo Central Constituency have employed more than 4,000 people, but they cannot irrigate their crops because of load shedding. Despite their failure to irrigate their crops, their workers have to be paid and also pay National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) contributions. I had a meeting with commercial farmers and they indicated that they are about to leave the country because of load shedding and there being no solution to the problem.

 

Madam Speaker, let me now come to expenditure. A budget is money you are going to spend and how that money is going to be raised. However, I have a problem reconciling this Budget. The hon. Minister of Finance Minister talked about different things from beginning to the end of his speech. However, the expenditure table does not reflect what he is saying. What you say becomes important when it is reflected on the expenditure table. For example, if I am budgeting and I tell my children that I am going to buy a car for the family, yet when they check the expenditure table, they find that there is no car appearing on it but other things. What have I said then? It means that what I have said is useless, because it is not reflected in the expenditure table.  A lot of things are missing in this Budget.

 

Madam, I would also like to correct some hon. Members from your right who said that we on your left are refusing that climate is a serious issue. Yes, climate change is real, but what we are saying is that it is not the reason for the downturn of the economy. The downturn of the economy is as a result of poor leadership.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam, I say so because the Government should be able to contain the effects of climate change for a short period.

 

Madam Speaker, let me now come to expenditure. First of all, there is a lot of talk about climate change, as stated said by the hon. Minister of Finance, yet there is no reflection on the expenditure table.

 

Mr Zulu: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Mr Samakayi: Number four!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

A point of order is raised.

 

Mr M Zulu: Madam, I rise on a very serious point of order. Hon. Kamboni made a statement to the extent that climate change is not to blame for most of the economic ills that the country is experiencing. However, the United Party for National Development (UPND) president in paragraph 6 of his party’s alternative 2020 budget states as follows:

 

“The international economy remains quiet constrained due to imaging protectionist foreign policies in major global economic players, climate change effects and humanitarian challenges in some parts of the world.”

 

Madam, in the alternative UPND 2020 budget, the hon. Members on your left have said it has been said that climate change has contributed to the economic downturn of the world.

Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to turn away from the alternative 2020 budget and disapprove his own president and party by saying that climate change has no effect on the economy?

 

I seek your very serious ruling, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

My ruling is that in so far as the so called alternative 2020 budget is not an official document, and that this House is considering a very serious official document in the name of the National Budget, the hon. Member for Kalomo Central is in order. He will thus focus on the official document which on the Floor of the House.

 

May the hon. Member debating continue.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiinga: 4:0

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Speaker, for me to continue, I need your protection. I have mentioned here that sixty-six schools in my constituency will close before November. Further, I have fifty villages and people there all draw their water from the rivers. Unfortunately, the rivers have since dried up. The situation is bad.

 

Mr Kamboni: May I please finish. I expected the Government to pay more attention to water and sanitation. Those two areas should have been given a lot of attention to alleviate the challenges that we are facing. Unfortunately, this sector was only allocated K2.6 billion. This why I was saying the Government allocated K4 billion to the Public Order and Saftey so that they can buy tear gas  to use on the same citizens that pay taxes −

 

Mr Mung’andu: Question!

 

Mr Kamboni: − yet only K1 billion was allocated to pay retirees pensions. K900 million for −

 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

A point of order is raised.

 

Hon. Member for Kalomo Central, resume your seat.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, when you see a debate attracting repeated points of order, it means a lot. Once upon a time, in this august House, we had two gallant hon. Members who represented two constituencies. These constituencies are Kalomo and Bweengwa.

 

Mr Kamboni: What is your point of order, Sir?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Let me even pass my condolences to the people of Kalomo Central.

 

Mr Michelo: What is your point of order?

 

Mr Michelo: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kampyongo: When those gallant men stood to debate, ...

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

REusme your seat, hon. Minister, and you too hon. Member for Bweengwa.

 

Hon. Minister, I will not allow you to rise on a point of order to debate any hon. Member of this House, you know the rules.

 

Mr Mwiinga: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: If you are going to rise on a point of order just state what it is without making reference to former hon. Members of Parliament or those that are currently in this House.

 

May the hon. Minister, state his point of order.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I am most obliged. When debating this very important Motion, we expect high level, well informed and researched debates. Not too long along, we had hon. Opposition Members whose debates on the Budget would capture the attention of the hon. Members on your right.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

What is your point of order hon. Minister?

 

Mr Kamboni: What is your point of order? Say what the point of order is.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, is Hon. Komboni in order to insinuate –

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kamboni: My name is not Komboni.  Say my name correctly!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kamboni: No, no, no! I must be protected. Who the hell is he?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Kamboni: You do not even know how to pronounce a name. Go back to school.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Resume your seat, hon. Member for Kalomo Central.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kamboni: Who the fuck is he?

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on both sides of the House!

 

 Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, it appears to me that you really do not have a point of order.

 

Mr Kampyongo: I have a very serious point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo: Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order –

 

Mr Michelo: Go back to night school.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my left! Order hon. Member for Bweengwa!

 

Mr Michelo: No, he cannot behave in that manner.

 

Mr Kampyongo: I will get you locked up if you think we play.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Michelo: You are from Katondo Street!

 

Mr Kampyongo: Madam, is he in order to insinuate that the allocation to the Public Order and Safety is meant to tear gas people who pay taxes? Matters of security deserve to be debated in a proper and sobre context in this august House. We certainly take great exception to debates which are meant to misinform the public and anger people. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to mislead this House and the nation at large, that this allocation to Public Order is meant to abuse citizens of this country?

 

I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Michelo: We are more educated than you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: My serious ruling is this, …

 

Mr Michelo: What can you tell us? We have been to better schools than you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Bweengwa, order!

 

The serious ruling is this. Hon. Members on the right, you have presented a Budget to this House, collectively. The hon. Members of this House, who are not part of the Executive are mandated to scrutinise this Budget. Therefore, they are here to debate the Budget that you presented to the House. It does not mean that you will be happy with everything they will say, but that is why you were elected to manage the resources of this country in a transparent manner. Therefore, when the left or, indeed, the Backbench of the party in Government raise issues, it is your duty to clarify or to respond to those issues. As far as I am concerned, I expect order from the right and from the left. I expect that debate will flow without interruptions. Debate was flowing from the right. I remember some hon. Members put up very passionate debates. I do not see why we cannot allow the left to do the same. Hon. Members on my right, you are the ones who are managing the resources. You have a duty to explain to the people of Zambia through their representatives who are sitting in this House. The hon. Member for Kalomo Central will continue with his debate.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Michelo: This is not your country. You are going in 2021.

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. I think allocating K4,042,702,155 to the Public Order and Safety when we have very serious issues that are supposed to be given priority was misplaced. We needed to have more money on Water Supply and Sanitation. The problem which the people of this country are facing is the high price of mealie meal. This is so because we have a problem right at production level. In my view, this Government should have tried to solve the high mealie meal price, the hunger that the people are facing and also, look into the food reserve so that we have enough food for five years. In my view, these are the priorities that this Government could have allocated that money to instead of taking it to the Public Order and Safety. Our Zambians are very peaceful and orderly people. We do not need such kind of money for Public Order and Safety. I recall, last time, this Government asked for a supplementary budget for this unit. I think this is wastage of resources, whether one likes it or not. That is what we are talking about.

 

Madam Speaker, we should have allocated more money to medical institutions for medicine. In this Budget, this Government has only allocated K9,366,591,584 for medicines when we have people who are dying at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) due to lack of drugs. Patients are told to buy medicine. Surely, why should we allocate less than a billion Kwacha to the health services that treat our poor men when they are unwell? It is not fair, and I think there is a need for change. I is not fair to allocate K2,620,137,161 to Water Supply and Sanitation.

 

Madam Speaker, today, as I was driving, I saw old people looking terribly hungry. These people are trying to get their pension. Why should this Government decide to allocate only K1,020,387,721 to the Public Service Pension Fund? From the time the PF Government came into power, it changed the retirement age from fifty-five to sixty-five. When we go to our constituency offices, we find a chain of old and once respected people who worked for this country but they cannot get their benefits. These are the areas which we think the hon. Minister of Finance would have concentrated on and put money to where it is needed most.

 

Madam Speaker, in this Budget, I have noted that salaries for civil servants are gobbling quite a lot of money in this country.  Yes, I know that the Government has put in place measures in various ministries in that regard, but it is very important that those measures are reflected in the expenditure table so that we know. Why do I say so? This will help us as we make decisions. One of the things that led to this problem is the creation of forty-four more districts by the PF Government. This meant paying more people, District Commissioners (DCs) and Administrative Officers. Now, we have a big chunk of our Budget going to pay these people when we could have reduced the number had these districts not been created. The wage bill would have been less than it is. These are the areas we are looking at, and that is why we are telling the Government not to create more districts because we cannot afford them anymore.

 

Madam Speaker, it is very difficult to operate with a Budget where only 9 percent of it is allocated non discretionary expenditure. No matter how much of a genius a person can be. It will be very difficult to work with such an allocation. It is also difficult to work when you have a situation where K6.1 billion is taken through corruption. Zambia has become a study case on corruption. We are told that for every US $1 that comes, 63 cents go to corruption.

 

Madam Speaker, let me also look at the energy infrastructure. This Government allocated K11,167,970,334 to the Energy Power Infrastructure. It also allocated K10,552,606,147 to the Road Infrastructure. Accounts are supposed to be straight forward for everyone to see. When a table is made, it must balance, and be straight forward. In accounts, if you see that some information is being hidden, it only means two things. It is either the one doing it intends to hide some information or he is incompetent. I do not want to use the word incompetent. When you put a lump sum of K10,552,6006,147 and K11,167,970,334 in the Budget without really trying to explain even a little bit, it brings in a lot of suspicion. This is the money that is very easy to be looted and misappropriated by people. That is why we are asking why this Government can allocate K10,552,606,147 to Roads Infrastructure and K11,167,970,334 to Energy Power Infrastructure when there is hunger in the country. People are complaining about life in Zambia because it has become so hard.

 

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the issue of debts. This Government is saying that it wants to sustain debt. How can it avoid borrowing when it still intends to borrow? There is a contradiction there. In my view, it should not have intended to borrow anymore because over-borrowing is bringing suffering to all the Zambians. You cannot bring the same element that is making you sick. It is like you are burning in fire, yet you pour petrol on yourself. The fire will not stop burning. So, this Government is borrowing again, instead of bringing in new ideas that can stop this.

 

Madam Speaker, the reserves have been reduced to K1.4 million. This country is in a very dangerous zone. The Kwacha can lose value anytime, and that is not good for planning because everything will be very unpredictable. In a day, the Kwacha changes value, sometimes, three to four times. It is very difficult for anybody to plan because when the Kwacha loses value, it means even the money that goes to debt servicing increases.

 

So, your planning is actually affected. This is why we need to stabilise the Kwacha. I would have loved to see more of the efforts which the hon. Minister of Finance is making in this Budget to stabilise the Kwacha, especially that he has worked for the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) before.

 

Madam Speaker, let us now look at the sources of revenue. The Government’s sources of revenue are very shaky and unreliable. It cannot depend on them. The Government’s source of income is straightforward, and it is Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE), which is estimated at K12 billion. It is more than what we are getting from our minerals. I wonder why the hon. Minister’s briefcase is even coloured in copper. It should be coloured in the name of workers because they are the ones who are paying the highest taxes.

 

Madam Speaker, we have the highest PAYE in the world at 37 per cent, and I hope the Government is not going to increase it. Now people are losing jobs, and PAYE will bring in K12 billion. It is too much for the citizens of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, you cannot tax a dead cow and hope to get money. You cannot milk a cow that is dead. To milk a cow, you need to feed it well for it to have more milk. This means that Zambians should have money. You can only get high taxes in a good economy. If the economy is dead, you cannot get any tax. You can work on a piece of paper, but people will not be able to pay tax because it becomes unaffordable. These are the issues that the Government is supposed to look at and see how it can alleviate the suffering of Zambians in relation to this issue.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government is taking away everything and it is not giving the people of Zambia anything in turn. PAYE is too high. In that same alternative budget which some people are condemning, it is recommended that PAYE should be reduced to 21 per cent.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has allocated a lot of money to Fees and Fines under Non-Tax Revenues. The people of Zambia now know how to elude the speed traps. They are able to dodge them. So, I do not think that this money will be raised. The Government has put more money that what we get from the mines. Why do we have these mines? My house is near the road and I see truckloads of copper everyday from morning until night time, but what are we getting from there? It is only K4 billion, which is less than what we anticipate from fines. Again, these fines are coming from the people of Zambia. What crime have the people of Zambia committed? Surely, what crime have they committed? I thought that the hon. Minister would relieve them of this pain which they are going through.

 

Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia are suffering at the moment. They should have been relieved of the high mealie meal prices and thereby reduce hunger as well as lower the taxes. This is a Government that came into power on the premise of lowering taxes. That is why the people of Zambia voted for it, but now, the taxes are high. When you add all the revenue, it is all about taxing the people of Zambian and not the copper mines. The copper mines are enjoying as they only have to pay K4 billion in taxes, yet the hon. Minister’s brief case is painted in the copper colour. No, copper does not pay the highest taxes, it is PAYE which is taxed from the people of Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, further, on the sources of revenue, there is one thing that is missing. The hon. Minister talked about the recovery of loans from former students who are now working, but this has not been indicated in the table. It is very important that it is indicated. So, it means that maybe, he is not recovering the loans. If he is recovering the student loans, it should be indicated in the Budget as well.

 

Madam Speaker, mineral royalty is another issue that the hon. Minister should pay attention to. We are getting too little from our mines.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Question!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Speaker, in countries like Australia, from every dollar they sell their mineral, they get about 80¢. In Botswana, when they sell their diamond, they get 86¢ from every dollar. In Zambia, when we sell US$1 worth of our copper, we get 5¢. It is not fair. We need to benefit from our natural resources. This is why the hon. Minister needs to bring in his mathematics to ensure that the country can benefit. It is not all about collecting taxes from the people. No, it is not.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has not indicated, in clear terms, how much money he is borrowing.

 

Madam Speaker, the other area is Value Added Tax (VAT). The hon. Minister must work on why VAT refunds are a problem for this Government. We have a lot of people who are financially undisciplined in the PF Government. So, he needs to put in place measures to ensure that the VAT refunds go to the people so that they can invest more and make the economy flourish. Otherwise, this Budget does not help anybody. The hon. Minister talked of something different and what is on the table is different.

 

The hon. Minister of Finance still has a lot of homework. I am hoping he will change a few things to make this Budget for Zambia and not for the PF leaders only.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chishala (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. PF Members: Independent!

 

Mr Chishala: I would love to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to add the voice of the people of –

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise a very serious point of order on the hon. Member who is just about to debate. We are aware that the hon. Member for Roan came to this House as a member of the National Democratic Congress (NDC), which party has since been deregistered by the Registrar of Societies.

 

Madam Speaker, I am aware that when a party has been disbanded, it ceases to exist. I also know that the said hon. Member for Roan has no status, whatsoever. Is he in order to remain in this House and to even debate or indicate to debate as an hon. Member of Parliament when in actual fact, he does not belong to any political party?

 

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, I seek your serious ruling on this important national matter. Your ruling on this matter will settle the dust and make matters very clear for all of us in this House and the nation at large.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mulenga: Ema whip aya!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: My ruling is this that from my understanding, and the advice that has been given to me, the matter of that particular political party is in court. Therefore, as Chair, I am not competent to rule on this matter.

 

The hon. Member for Roan will continue with his debate.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chishala: Madam Speaker, before someone stood on a point of order, I was saying that I am so happy that you have accorded me this opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor of the House, more importantly, to add the voice of the National Democratic Congress (NDC) and that of the people of Roan Constituency.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chishala: Madam Speaker, I thought it prudent to highlight a few things that I have noticed in the Budget that has been presented in this House. Firstly, I would love to point out the things that I think are well intended for this nation and later criticise what is not well intended.

 

Madam Speaker, one of the things that I have noticed, which is making sense to me is the enforcement of the allocation of 20 per cent of works to Zambian contractors from those foreign contractors. I would like to use this opportunity to urge the Executive to not just end at the 20 per cent allocation. It would be prudent to increase this allocation to 30 or 40 per cent. I believe that raising that allocation to 30 or 40 per cent would increase liquidity in this nation.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chishala: Madam Speaker, I also notice that the K2.2 million allocated for local debt dismantling is ideal and in line with the first item that I highlighted as it will improve liquidity in this nation.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chishala: Madam Speaker, I also note that the hon. Minister of Finance has allocated about K630 million to the Sinking Fund. That allocation is a good thing seeing that as a country, we have accrued a lot of debts. So, allocating such an amount is a brilliant idea, although it is not enough, and we could have done better than this.

 

Madam, the hon. Minister has also indicated that the nation had slowed down on debt accumulation. This is also a brilliant thing because we cannot just keep borrowing. A practical example would be that of a man who just wants to impress his wife and children, and so he just keeps borrowing just so he can buy whatever his wife and children need. Eventually, he would lose his wife in the process of paying back the debt.  So, it is ideal for the country to reduce the rate at which it is borrowing.  This is a brilliant idea as well.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chishala: Madam Speaker, I noted that in the hon. Minister’s speech, the Value Added Tax (VAT) has been retained. This is also a good idea because there was a public outcry concerning the Sales Tax. However, the hon. Minister thought it ideal to maintain the VAT. On top of that, he has indicated modes and measures of how he is going to manage this electronically.

 

Madam, the hon. Minister also indicated that in 2020, the Government will release the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), which is a good thing. However, I would not want this assurance to end on paper because most of such issues just end on paper. It would be good if the CDF for this year was disbursed. If there is not enough CDF to give all the constituencies, it is better that the hon. Minister of Finance allocates CDF for Roan Constituency.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chishala: If I will not receive CDF this year and next year, I will take it as sabotage because you would not want me to bounce back in this House in 2021. So, I would love him to make sure that he disburses the CDF for 2019 and 2020 so that I bounce back in this House.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chishala: Madam Speaker, there is something that has prompted me to –

 

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Livune: Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to rise on a very serious point of order. My point of order is on the Leader of Government Business in the House. Article 72, Section 9 of our Constitution states as follows:

 

“If a political party is dissolved, a Member of Parliament shall retain the member’s seat as an independent member.”

 

Madam, is the Leader of Government Business in the House in order not to educate the hon. Members on your right about the provisions of this Article in the Constitution?

 

I seek your serious ruling.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That point of order is mischievous.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: This is because I have already ruled on this matter.

 

May the hon. Member for Roan continue with his debate.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chishala: Madam Speaker, before I was interrupted by that point of order, I was saying that what has prompted me to debate is the absence of Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) exemption threshold in the Budget. Being a former union representative who has worked in the mines for a good twelve years representing the vulnerable workers there, I think this has been left out and it needs much more attention. Of late, for the past three years, I have noticed that there has been no company in this nation that has increased salaries beyond 5 per cent. I thought it could have been ideal for the hon. Minister at least to increase the threshold for PAYE so that those vulnerable employees can have something to walk away with at home.

 

Madam, I have also noticed that the allocation of K1 billion towards pensions is not adequate. When I did my simple mathematics, when I was seated here, I looked at K1 billion and did an average of about K600 take home as pension for a worker This was giving me something like 1,500 beneficiaries from K1 billion allocation for pension. There is need to sort out the issue of pensions in this nation because it is long overdue.

 

My appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance is that it is better we sort out this issue of pensions so that even if the Constitution was to be amended on the issue of removing former employees on the Government’s payroll, then it would make sense. However, in an event that we do not sort out the issue of pensioners and you want to remove them from the payroll, to me, I would not be in support of that idea. I would not even support that. I would rather they remain on the payroll until their pension is sorted out.

 

Madam Speaker, coming to agriculture, the allocation of K1.1 billion for the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) in my view is not also adequate. We are just coming from a crisis, whereby we had droughts in parts of this country and looking at K1.1 billion, I think we are disadvantaging the Ministry of Agriculture. I expected the hon. Minister to put much more money in the Ministry of Agriculture so that at least in this farming season we can reap as much as we can so that we can be able to have much reserves for the next years to come not just end up for the one or two years. We should have a target of minimum five years as food reserves.

 

Madam, on top of this, I would like to mention that if at all that money that has been allocated to Ministry of Defence, part of it to be used in agricultural activities because I have seen that most of these defence forces like the Zambia National Service (ZNS), Zambia Army and Zambia Air Force (ZAF), to me quite alright, yes, they do their job to protect the nation at large, but on top of that, they need to provide food on the table for the people of Zambia. We need to pump a lot of money in the defence forces so that ZNS can be utilised to produce more food, more maize and do more irrigation projects. Irrigation projects can be done even in winter when there is no rain. So if at all this money which has been given to this ministry would go towards irrigation projects, then we will be home and dry. If it at all it is not going to be used in that way, then I would not support such a figure going towards defence and home affairs.

 

Madam Speaker, coming to the mining industry, the hon. Minister of Finance mentioned that he is going to promote exploration. If I caught him right or if I caught it right in my book here, I feel it should not just end on exploration. Being a person who has worked in the mining industry, I will tell you that in the mining industry there is a lot of money and this nation can benefit from this industry.

 

However, my suggestion to the hon. Minister of Finance or the Government at large is that we need to pump in money which would make the country or Government to own its own mines and not just end at exploration. When you explore, you should also find some money to come up with a project that is only going to be owned by the Government. I was doing simple mathematics of the investments that I have witnessed in the mining industry. When I worked for Lumwana Mine, the money that was pumped in that project was just about US$780 million and the company was exempted from tax for five years.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1810 hours until 1830 hours.

 

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Chishala: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was highlighting issues in relation to mining.

 

Mr Speaker, in the Budget Speech, I heard the hon. Minister talk about promoting mining exploration. I will marry this mining activity to external borrowing. I will give you a rough calculation of a certain project in existence in this country. If at all the borrowing was meant for profit-generating ventures, I believe this nation would not have been allocating so much money to clear debts because certain ventures could have been paying for themselves without getting into the national coffers.

 

Mr Speaker, if you look at the investment in Kalumbila Mine, you will see that it is worth US$2 billion. Look at how much this mine is making per month or year. If the Government had pumped in that US$2 billion in this mine, it would appreciate such an investment. This mine produces 500 tonnes of copper per day. At the current copper price of US$5,600 per tonne, it gives me something like, US$2.8 million a day. This amounts to US$24 million a month. When I remove expenses from this, I come up with a rough figure of about US$20 million profit per annum. In three years, this US$20 million profit per annum would have made something like US$720 million. This gives me a picture that within six to seven years, the mine would have paid off this US$2 billion investment. Why does our Government not borrow such sums of money to invest in such a venture because this is profitable? Yes, we can borrow money and pump it into infrastructure development like roads and hospitals, but certain amounts can be borrowed and pumped in such ventures that will generate profit.

 

Mr Speaker, in the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister also said that there was low copper production in 2019. To me, that does not make sense because in my constituency, there are two mineshafts, mineshaft number 18 and mineshaft number 28. These mineshafts have been idle for some time, yet there is adequate copper underground which could be mined to boost copper production in 2019. May I take this opportunity to urge the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to look into this matter by taking Luanshya Copper Mine or the China Non-Ferrous Mining Corporation (CNMC) to task so that they invest in or reopen these two mineshafts because there is enough copper underground to boost productivity. If the copper in those mineshafts was mined, we could not have had the shortage of copper production this year. Yes, some mines could have closed because they have depleted the mineral deposits, but in our case, we still have copper deposits. Why not open these mineshafts? It is high time the Government looked into the issue of these two mineshafts so that we can improve copper production.

 

Mr Speaker, on page 22, paragraph 133, the hon. Minister of Finance said:

 

“Mr Speaker, to mitigate the impact of climate change and promote the use of alternative energy sources, I propose to zero rate the supply of gas stoves, other gas cookers and gas boilers.”

 

Sir, to me, this is not enough. With the drought which was experienced in some parts of the country, I expected the hon. Minister to go further and exempt tax on agricultural equipment so that we encourage small scale farmers to mature to large scale farmers. Allow me to mention to the hon. Minister of Finance that apart from these gas stoves, there are also eco stoves that are manufactured in Uganda. These eco stoves use volcanic lava. We can make these stoves from Uganda tax-exempt. This way, we will discourage the cutting down of trees because people will survive on eco stoves which use volcanic lava or stone. If we exempted these stoves from tax, we would mitigate the effects of climate change.

 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I would like to say that whatever will be borrowed in the 2020 Budget should be allocated to agriculture, environmental protection as well as mine exploration and investment which I talked about.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The next person to debate is the hon. Member for Chitambo. Let me commend the hon. Member who has just concluded his debate for debating issues, hence that did not attract problems.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member has debated as though he has been in the House for many years.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: This is the way it is supposed to be. If you discuss issues, you will never provoke anyone, and you will speak without any disturbance.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chitambo, we are debating the 2020 Budget.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ngulube: Ema advice aya!

 

Interruptions

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, thank you for the wise counsel that we should debate the Budget. I know that we came to this House called Parliament to represent the people. I came to represent the people of Chitambo and the Central Province.

 

Mr Speaker, the Budget was well-presented, and I commend the hon. Minister of Finance. I can describe this Budget as one which is very resilient in this weather in the sense that it has outlined many issues that Zambians are facing. Climate change has brought many nations to their knees, but Zambia has been resilient and I know that we are going to pull through.

 

Mr Speaker, I read through this Budget, and I found paragraph 36 and 37 quite interesting. They are interesting in the sense that the President, through the hon. Minister of Finance, outlined what the Patriotic Front (PF) Government wants to do for this country. I believe and know that all hon. Members of Parliament have read and understood what is on this page I am talking about, which is page 5, paragraph 36 and 37. I have a sense of disbelief when I listen to people punch holes in this Budget. I have been in this House for four years now. When the first Budget for the PF was presented, it was called a useless Budget. Later, Hon. Mutati presented his Budget, and again, it was also called a useless Budget. The 2020 Budget by Dr Ng’andu has also been called names.

 

Mr Mwamba: It has surnames.

 

Mr Mutale: Actually, it even has surnames, according to what I am hearing now.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutale: Sir, it has taken so long for me to understand the people who debate against the National Budgets. This group has technocrats who are failed leaders in this nation. I recall very well that when the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) was in Government and Budgets were presented on the Floor of this same House by some former hon. Minister of Finance who is with us here today, it took only three years of President Rupiah Banda in power and then the people of Zambia voted the MMD out. That is what I call failure. The people on your left have read this Budget. The same failed former hon. Minister of Finance lectured us for almost twenty minutes. Budgets were presented here in this House in 2010 and 2011. Before I go far, let me say that this same hon. Minister of Finance in that failed Government came up with a project called Formulae One. This project was very well-packaged, and I commend him for it. However, it was made only for political expedience. Furthermore, it made Zambians not to believe this man and his party at that time, which was the MMD. This is the technocrat who has been hired to analyse Budgets. So, no matter how good the Budget presentation is, to the hon. Members on your left, it shall be a failed Budget. They are calling this Budget a failed Budget.

 

Sir, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been going to all our constituencies here from the same failed Budgets.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Mutale: Hospitals are being built in our various constituencies from the same failed Budgets. Roads are being built from the same failed Budgets. The Government does not even discriminate; it builds roads even in constituencies where people did not give it a single vote.

 

Mr Kambita: Is it your money?

 

Mr Mutale: I believe the debater who said that people have eyes to see but they cannot see said that because they are a failed people. Whatever they touch fails, and they want to create an impression that the PF is a failed Government.

 

Mr Kambita: You do not know.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, the PF is facing a very difficult scenario of climate change. The hon. Members of your left have been crying for relief food to be taken to their various constituencies. The PF is very happy to give the people food, and this Budget has talked about that.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: When the President came here, he sat where the Deputy Speaker is sitting.

 

Mr Kambita: Which President?

 

Mr Mutale: President Edgar Chagwa Lungu. There is only one President in this country. I will talk about the other president later.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, the President gave us –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, you are disturbing the one who has the right to debate.

 

Mr Sing’ombe interjected.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Dundumwezi, leave the House and come back tomorrow.

 

Mr Sing’ombe left the Assembly Chamber.

.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: We want to listen to the hon. Member who is debating. The hon. Member may continue.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, thank you so much for helping me to stop the comedy that was degenerating this House.

 

Mr Speaker, I was saying that his Excellency the President came here and demonstrated leadership. Further, he gave us what I might say words that eventually come to pass through this Budget. Therefore, His Excellency the President foresaw this Budget because he spoke to it. In addition, the presentation was done in line with the assurance that the President gave in this House.

 

Mr Kambita: Question!

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, a lot has been said concerning this Budget. Many people have analysed the allocations which are as follows: 50 per cent is going towards personal emoluments, 41 per cent is going towards debt serving while 9 per cent is what they are terming as our survival.

 

Sir, I am very happy with these figures in the sense that it is us in this House who in the first place cry for hospitals. I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Health for coming up with a deliberate policy to build a hospital in every district. This calls for man power. To that effect, the Government has employed many nurses and doctors. These people will require salaries.  Time and again, we, on the Floor of this House, cry for schools to be constructed. To that effect, 118 secondary schools are being built in this country. Therefore, there will be a need to employ more teachers. We are seeing this happening.

 

Sir, additionally, more districts have been created and because of that, some hon. Members of Parliament seated are in this House because of the newly created districts. When more districts are created, it means more people should be employed, and those people should be paid their salaries. So, even hon. Members of Parliament who came through the creation of those districts are drawing a salary. The borrowed money is not being thrown in the water or given to people who come from nowhere. It is being given to Zambians.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, 99 per cent of the workers in this country are Zambians, including myself. So, the investment we are pushing into the pockets of Zambians is translating into developing this country and taking it to higher levels. Only those who want to pretend to be blind can say that 50 per cent of the Budget is being wasted.

 

Sir, I believe that most of the people in this House have done economics and they know that the money is just circulation in the economy. This is why Zambia is able to rebound and sustain all the factors which are affecting the economy. Most of the money is within ourselves. Further, we have improved people’s livelihoods in the rural areas. The PF Government has taken development closer to the people by creating more districts.

 

Ms Tambatamba: Question!

 

Mr Mutale: Sir, through decentralisation, …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: … people are able to get National Registration Cards (NRCs) within their localities while we are seated here. When I look in the eyes of our hon. Colleagues who are saying: “question,” I can see that they are praying that the Government should delimitate the constituencies. What does that mean? It means that the Government is going to create more jobs and more money will be spent and channelled to personal emoluments.

 

Sir, this is why I am saying if there is a technocrat who failed a President in three years, but he is a financial adviser for a party, then, that particular party is a failed party.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Bwekeshapo!

 

Mr Mutale: Sir, I am saying that the United Party for National Development (UPND) financial advisor, who is also former hon. Minister from the failed Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, sees nothing good in any Budget that comes on the Floor of this House.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, if hon. Opposition Members want to have their constituencies delimited, they must think twice and reason.

 

Sir, people have been talking about the 41 per cent allocation to debt servicing. His Excellency the President said that the art of borrowing is to pay back. For instance, if we borrow at household level, we should expect that the time of repayment will come, and we must also know that all the people in our homes must tighten their belts. So, even here at Parliament, we expect this to happen. The money which the Government borrowed did not go to waste. The roads people are driving on ˗ Someone debated that the Lusaka/Mazabuka Road has been worked on. People are quiet and they are not saying anything about it.

 

Sir, today, we are boasting that our railway line is doing very well because 35 per cent of the goods are being transported by rail. This is a very positive indicator because we are going to maintain jobs in that sector. In the meantime, people want to pretend that the borrowed money has just gone to waste, when in fact not.

 

Mr Speaker, 650 health posts are being built across the country. However, questions on that issue are still being brought on the Floor of this House, and we listen to them every day. Further, ninety-four of the health posts under construction are in the Southern Province.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: This is where the borrowed money is being spent.  People keep talking about corruption. We have told them to forward the names of the corrupt people to the relevant authorities, but to date, not even a single name has been mentioned.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, even a simple phone call from the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) to inquire about certain things from them becomes a big issue. One even starts shivering as if he/she is dying.

 

Hon. Government: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutale: Sir, that kind of cowardice does not call for people who are considering taking over leadership from the PF Government. Far from it.

 

 Mr Speaker, on page 23, paragraph 150, of the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister of Finance is urging us all to unite and work together so that this Budget can be approved in a very good manner. However, I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Finance to check the people he wants us to associate with. There is no way we will associate ourselves with gays and people who are promoting lesbianism.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutale: What example are the Zambian people going to get from such kind of leaders who go outside the country to promote gayism, lesbianism and all sorts of things? On the other hand, the hon. Minister of Finance wants us to work with them. As PF Member and Provincial Chairperson for the Central Province, I say no to that.

 

Mr Livune interjected and left the Assembly Chamber.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member will debate the Budget. We were all here when the hon. Minister was presenting the Budget.

                          

Interruptions

 

Ms Kasanda rose.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, resume your seat. We have got what the hon. Member who has just left the Assembly Chamber has said.

 

Ms Kasanda interjected.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, I am still talking. Let us reason together. I am here, and when I see that the hon. Member is off the line, I will intervene. That is why I guided him. Sometimes when you stand to debate, you should always mind what you say so that when others stand to debate, you do not easily get provoked. The advantage of some of these hon. Members of Parliament is that they have been on both sides of the House. They have been in the Opposition and today, they are in Government. Others are even in the Chair. So, we understand what it means.

 

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

So, let us exercise patience. Hon. Member for Chitambo, I do not think the hon. Minister said anything about gayism in his Budget Speech. Withdraw that statement, and debate the Budget.

 

Hon. Member for Chitambo, you may continue with your debate.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the statement, although it is hard. However, it is a fact that gayism, −

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Withdraw the words gayism and lesbians.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the statement concerning lesbianism and gayism. So, instead of those words, I will say we cannot work together with people who belong to –

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mecha (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the 2020 Budget. This is a very interesting Budget, which I can only describe as realistic.

 

Mr Speaker, I have considered all the text in the Budget.

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of Order, Sir.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

I will not allow anymore points of order.

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker it is very compelling.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Deputy Chief Whip, resume your seat.

 

Mr Mecha: Mr Speaker, thank you for protecting me. I have looked at the micro economic objectives contained in the Budget Speech.  None of those have been contested. The only issue we have is the projection of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth of 3 per cent. I want to take that as a departure point for my debate.

 

Mr Speaker, this country is blessed to have Dr Bwalya Ng’andu as the Minister of Finance because he is full of wisdom. We can easily tell that this Budget was guided by a lot of wisdom. When wise people are making important decisions for the country, they consult the past performance of the economy of Zambia. They consult the regional, sub-saharan and the global economies because they understand that decisions cannot be made without first looking into the past. It is impossible. I probably need to go back in time so that people understand the context in which that projection of 3 per cent GDP growth was made. It is very important that I do that. The memories regarding the 2015/2018 economic disaster are still fresh. We had an economic disaster during that period and everyone knows what caused that, it is the effects of climate change. They failed us.

 

Mr Speaker, when the President came to this House to galvanise his speech with that climate connotation, people even went to the extent of describing it as empty. However, this is a President who is forward looking and wants to redeem this country and help it achieve the vision 2030.

 

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear.

 

Mr Mecha: Mr Speaker,the President had to look back and remind us about the responsibility to make decisions for the people of Zambia regarding climate change. 2015/2016 was a bad year. Who does not know what happened? We had a food crisis. Hunger and economic retardation was not only peculiar to Zambia. We know what happened in the sub-saharan Africa. There was an energy crisis and power shortages everywhere which resulted in economic retardation. We know the figures we got in 2016. The economic growth rate was 1.3 per cent. In 2017, the situation improved, and we had good rains and energy generation was resuscitated. That was the time the prices of minerals rose. In fact, the prices were better than what we have today. However, how did the economy at that level perform? We only managed a paltry 3.4 per cent growth rate. That is the sub-saharan context.

 

Mr Speaker, coming back to the Zambian context, had it not been for the intervention of importing power from Mozambique, we were going to be in a crisis because the economy was going to collapse. However, the economy never collapsed because we had an able driver in the name of President Edgar Chagwa Lungu. At the time we expected the economy to perform even better, we could not go beyond 3.4 per cent growth rate, yet the supportive environment was there. Let us now look at the progression with time. Have we ever achieved a growth rate of more than 4 per cent after those shocks, in 2016/2017? The answer is no.

 

So, what is the situation now? The situation now is that we have downgraded our initially projected economic growth of 4 per cent to 2 per cent. We know what has happened. The climatic change took a toll on the performance of the economy of Zambia. Three years ago, economic growth, when all the supportive factors were in place was at 3.4 per cent and we have failed to go beyond 4 per cent. Our projection today is that come December this year, our economic growth will be a paltry 2 per cent. Can you, therefore, realistically target your economic growth for 2020 beyond 4 or 5 per cent? I am waiting for someone to give me a formula of how they can make that projection or how they can arrive at that projection.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mecha: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance was spot on when he followed in the footsteps of President Edgar Chagwa Lungu and adopted the motto of delivering to the people of Zambia by doing more with less. He was spot on and we know the implication. It is a cautionary statement speaking to the fact that the resource envelope will be very thin next year. What this country desires is fiscal discipline to work with people who are responsible enough to deliver the economy of the country. There are no two ways about it.

 

Sir, discipline will not be restricted to the people of Zambia only. It will also be extended to corporate citizens. Very soon, I will be demonstrating what I mean.

 

Mr Speaker, sometimes we may not believe that we can actually do more with less. There is a lot of revenue leakage in Zambia, and most of the people who are responsible for that go scot-free. They are not taken to task, and they are people who dictate what must be done in the economy.

 

Sir, let me give you an example of the mines and how these mining giants do not appreciate the conducive and supportive environment that this Government has created. When we are talking about shortages of power, who are the biggest beneficiaries of Government subsidies? It is not the mines? The tariffs that are given to the mines are actually subsidised. Who does not know that a subsidy is a cost to the nation? It is money which should have gone to the people of Zambia, but it is being enjoyed by the mines. Who does not know what is happening in terms of pollution? Who are the biggest polluters of the environment, water and air? Is it not the mines? Who does not know the cost implications of pollution? People do not realise that it is revenue leakage when the Government begins to spend so much money treating various ailments resulting from water and air pollution. The Government is spending money which it is not supposed to be spending.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mecha: Sir, these are the same mines the Government has been giving tax holidays. Who is responsible for paying for that? Is it not the people of Zambia? The mines are enjoying.

 

Mr Speaker, go to China and you will find cobalt which went there via the concentrates without being detected in Zambia stockpiled. Who are the biggest beneficiaries of such schemes? It is the mines. The mines are benefiting a lot. Talk of the Customs Duty which has been waived for the mines for a long time. They are the biggest beneficiaries, yet they have caused a situation which has further added salt to injury in Zambia.

 

Sir, we are talking about transitioning from Value Added Tax (VAT) to Sales Tax. How many Zambians do not know that we have spent money through that process of attempting to transition from VAT to Sales Tax? We have spent a lot of money through forensic audits, consultations to transition and spent even more money to consult over the reversal.

 

Sir, I want to commend the hon. Minister of Finance for reversing the Sales Tax and sticking to VAT. It is a very bold decision, indeed. These are the men we need in Zambia. There are a lot of people who are going to claim credit over what he and the PF Government have done, but he should not worry because the success of the PF is the success of the people of Zambia and everyone is entitled to claim the credit. Therefore, the hon. Minister should not worry because they are justified.

 

Mr Speaker, there are a lot of detractors, but we can always get something from such kind of detraction. Sir, I have just been talking about the revenue leakage which this country has been affecting our economy. If we had managed revenue collection properly and put in place measures that can help arrest the abuse of the systems, the savings the Government was going to make would have gone a long way in finishing Musaila/Kasaba Road in Chifunabuli District. Unfortunately, we have not finished working on that road because of these revenue leakages.

 

Mr Speaker, you may wish to know that the road in Chifunabuli is purely funded by the Government. Therefore, if the Government does not raise money, there will be no funds to continue working on the roads. This is why we have to do things responsibly.

 

Mr Speaker, it is not like some roads somewhere else which have been funded through money borrowed from other countries and yet people are not appreciating. The money for the Musaila/Kasaba Road is purely from Government coffers, and so, if we mismanage revenue collection, there will be no money available to develop such projects. This is very important and must be known by the people of Zambia

 

Sir, this is why we are commending the hon. Minister for putting so many measures in place to ensure that these revenue leakages are sealed and money is made available to the people of Chifunabuli to complete that road. It is very important.

 

Mr Speaker, the measures that the hon. Minister of Finance has put in place are very impressive. It is payback time for the mines. They need to pay back to the people of Zambia. We must commend the hon. Minister of Finance when he comes to this House and zero-rates VAT on capital equipment. We must commend the hon. Minister of Finance for introducing Customs Tax on the same capital equipment. It is very important because the people of Zambia are now going to benefit from that kind of measure. The money will get to the people of Zambia and that is very important.

 

Sir, the hon. Minister of Finance has outlined a number of tax measures. If you talk about the copper cathodes, which if sold in Zambia would be zero-rated, Is that not a plus if we want to go the route of value addition? It is a plus. The PF is about job creation, but if we do not encourage copper cathodes to be sold locally, how are we going to promote value addition? How are we going to promote job creation? It will be very difficult to do that.

 

Sir, the responsibility does not only lie with the mines, but also with us as politicians. We need to do things responsibly. There are so many negative sentiments and hate speeches going out to our people. Who does not know the implication of that?

 

Mr Speaker, if this country fails to access capital from the capital markets because of those negative sentiments, are you going to be celebrating? If this country loses donor confidence because of being irresponsible, propagating hate speech and sending those negative sentiments, are we going to continue being happy, really? If that is a way of life, then I do not know whether we are patriotic Zambians or not. It is so shameful that we can decide to go that route. We do not know how much we hurt the Zambian economy by doing that.

 

We need to be responsible Zambian citizens and together ensure that we redeem Zambia from the economic doldrums it is going through. We are in it together, because no one is an exception.

 

Mr Speaker, earlier, I talked about climate change. President Edgar Lungu emphasised on climate change and urged all of us to join hands and mitigate the effects of climate change. I am happy that the hon. Minister of Finance has responded positively to the issue of climate change. There are a number of measures that the hon. Minister has put in place. The able hon. Member of Parliament for Luanshya, for example, talked about removing the tax on gas stoves, liquefied petroleum gas, processing equipment for producing organic fertilisers and electricity. Surely, that is a positive response. What has been done is helping the country to preserve the environment and that is one way of mitigating the effects of climate change.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance reinvigorated the commitment of the PF Government to manage the debt prudently. That is the way to go. As a country, we need to do things within the debt sustainability framework. That is very important. I get surprised when people talk about the paltry non-discretionary allocation of 9.9 per cent. What are we talking about?

 

Sir, what constitutes the funds that we need to use?

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.

 

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, the people of Bangweulu are very excited about this Budget, especially that Samfya has been mentioned in the Budget Speech. This goes to show how much this Government cares about the people of Samfya. The hon. Minister, in his Budget Speech, talked about investing money in Samfya Beach. God gave this endowment to the people of Samfya to explore so that it can contribute to the economic growth of this country. However, successive Governments have, for more than fifty years, ignored that beauty.

 

Sir, when a flower is remodelled, bees will be attracted to it. I do believe that bees do not just sit on any flower, but on one which is beautiful and with a good fragrance. For that reason, the hon. Minister of Finance has identified Samfya Beach as one of the areas where money can be put to create employment for the local people. The people of Bangweulu are very grateful for that.

 

Mr Speaker, I have said this before, but I will repeat it, especially for those who have ears, but deliberately choose not to listen. The process of healing something that has broken is first of all to diagnose it. If you are sick, you go to the hospital. I am sitting next to a doctor here, ...

 

Dr Chanda: Next to a witchdoctor.

 

Mr Kasandwe: ... or to a witchdoctor, as it were.

 

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwale: Makamaka ng’anga.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kasandwe: Sir, upon arrival at any health institution, you will be attended to and asked what has taken you to the clinic. You will then explain to the person attending to you and your blood sugar and blood pressure (BP) will be checked first and then the nurse will send you to the doctor. Before the doctor gives you any medicine, he/she does not only believe in what you have explained, but he/she will go through a process of diagnosing. The doctor will thoroughly check the patient, if he/she is not satisfied, further tests will be conducted so that he/she has a clear picture of what is troubling a patient. Having done that, the doctor will then prescribe the correct medication to heal that disease or sickness.

 

Mr Speaker, that illustration is exactly what this Budget has done through the speeches of the President and hon. Minister. The President and hon. Minister scanned the reality and asked questions such as: What is it that we are going through today as a country? What problem is slowing or bringing down the economic growth in this country? This Budget then answers those questions and then the President and hon. Minister of Finance have prescribed how to turn around the economy of this country. In fact, the doctor goes further to prescribe medicine, but when you go to the pharmacy, you will discover that you have not got all the medicines that the doctor had prescribed. You may be given few medicines and the pharmacist will further ask you to go and procure other drugs that are not available.

 

Sir, I want to apply this illustration to the contraction of loans. If the Government has not got enough money in its basket to put in the economy for social programmes, it will go out and borrow. Just as I have illustrated, if the there is not enough medicine in the pharmacy, the pharmacist will ask the patient to go further and buy the medicine elsewhere. That is why the Government took a step further to borrow so that some of the problems that we are facing in this country are sorted out.

 

Mr Speaker, I heard a number of hon. Members on your left say that the Government has been borrowing and it is not known where the money is going. This evening, I will try to demonstrate and show where some of this money has been going. For instance, the Government borrowed US$163 million to extend the national electricity grid. For fifty-five years, only two districts were connected to the national grid, namely Solwezi and Kabompo. I have lived in the North-Western Province, so I know that for a fact. The truth is that the Government borrowed that money to connect those areas to the national grid. One hon. Member of Parliament asked about where the appetite for borrowing by the Government was coming from. The answer is that it is coming from the love that the Patriotic Front (PF) has for the people of Zambia. When the Government borrowed US$163 million, it connected Lukulu, Nkeyema, Luampa, Moomba, Nalolo and part of Namwala districts to the national grid.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kasandwe: Mr Speaker, in the North-Western Province, all the districts except for Kasempa and Solwezi were connected to the national grid. I do not know of any district that is not connected to the national grid in the North-Western Province today. It is only the Patriotic Front (PF) Government which has done that fifty-five years after we got our independence. This spirit of not acknowledging or appreciating is very alarming. Therefore, I am wondering why the Opposition hon. Members have said that they do not know where the money went to. Today, I have just demonstrated where the money went to.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Members on your left have also said that there are so many young people who are not employed in Zambia, and that the PF Government has been promising to create 1,000 jobs, but these this has not been done. The hon. Members on your left should understand everything in context. If they do not understand anything in context, it becomes their own text. Context is very important. Why do we have so many graduates in Zambia today who are jobless? I will explain why to them. For example, in the fifty years of independence, before the PF Government came into power, we had only two universities in this country. Now, we have fifty-six universities producing graduates on the market.

 

Mr Mwamba: Every year!

 

Mr Kasandwe: Every year. So, obviously, they should expect that there will be more unemployed people on the market. I have been corrected that we had two universities then, now we have sixty-eight. I can also give an example of the Ministry of Higher Education. We had less than thirty colleges then, but today, there are 103 private colleagues in Zambia which are producing and offloading more than 5,000 graduates on the market each year. So, our colleagues should expect an increase of unemployment in the country.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government has gone further to provide employment, and I will also demonstrate that to them. In the health sector, for their own information, as of 2011, there were only 30,000 health workers in this country. As I am speaking today, there are 66,000 health workers in this country. So, this Government has employed 36,000 health workers in seven years as opposed to 30,000 from independence, which was in fifty years for that matter. We have 30,000 health workers against 66,000 health workers, but the Opposition hon. Members are still saying that the PF Government is going out of power in 2021. Where is it going?

 

Sir, do they think Zambians do not see? The Zambian people are equally surprised at the manner some of the hon. Members on the left debate. Just a few years ago, this Government employed 40,000 teachers, and that is why the hon. Minister has allocated more money in this Budget so that the teacher to pupil ratio is reduced. In the past four years, 40,000 teachers have been engaged.

 

Sir, for those who come here, and cry on behalf of the retirees, in 2011, when the PF took over Government, there were 6,000 pensioners waiting to be paid. In fact, to be precise, it was about 5,800 pensioners. As I am speaking, there are only 1,500 pensioners yet to be paid. In only a few years of being in power, this Government has reduced the number of pensioners waiting to be paid. The hon. Minister has allocated K1,020,387,712 towards the Public Service Pension Fund , but hon. Opposition Members are saying that the PF Government has turned a blind eye to the pensioners. That is far from it. It is actually the Opposition hon. Members who are blind, …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kasandwe: … not the people of Zambia.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, I believe that no one is blind here. If there is an hon. Members on my left who said that the PF Government was blind, then that is very unfortunate. For the sake of a clean record, withdraw that word and replace it with something better for us hon. Members.

 

Mr Kasandwe: Mr Speaker, I graciously withdraw the word blind and replace it with uncaring.

 

Sir, some people have said that the PF is not a caring Government, and that is far from it. About 5,800 retirees were on the waiting list to be paid, but today, only 1,500 are remaining. They can go and check the records. The balance that is needed to be paid is K1.4 billion. The hon. Minister has already allocated K1,020,387,712. So, we will only remain with about less than K400 million. That is what a caring Government does. As it has been demonstrated, the hon. Members on your left should see that this is a very good and caring Government.

 

Mr Speaker, I also want to talk about the issues that the hon. Minister talked about, which is continuing to push money into infrastructure development, especially in education and health. Let me ask a question which the hon. Members on the left can answer after we adjourn: How many hospitals or health centres were built before the PF took over power in 2011? The answer is that they were very few. Today, if they were to count them now, they would find that there are many. My fellow hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo hinted that out of the 650 health posts, ninety-nine clinics, if I am not mistaken, are in the Southern Province, seventy-four are in the Western Province and seventy-four are in the North-Western Province. How can people still say that this Government is discriminating? Where is the discrimination coming from?

 

Mr Speaker, I will give an analogy or an example of a family which lived very well but unfortunately, death robbed it of the lady of the House. The madam in that house died. A few years down the line, the man of the House remarried. Five years down the line, the only boy in that family was in a road accident and he had his limbs broken. He went into coma. A few months later, the family could not afford to pay the hospital bills. Therefore, the lady of the house suggested that the only way they could help their son was to sell some of their household items so that they could pay the hospital bills. They sold the car, furniture and most of the things that they had to enable them to pay the hospital bills. As fate would have it, the boy came out of the coma, and a few months later, he was discharged from the hospital. When he got home, there was no furniture in the house because it was sold so that he could receive medication. When time for lunch came, there was only a piece of kandolo and munkoyo on the table for lunch.

 

Mr Ngulube: What is munkoyo?

 

Mr Kasandwe: Munkoyo is a traditional drink and kandolo is sweet potatoes. A few days later, the boy discovered that his sisters were not going to school. He asked why life had changed, why everything seemed different from the way he had left them. The family explained that to get him well, it had to sell all its household goods. This is exactly what the PF Government did. In order to sort out certain things, it had to borrow. Let me go back to the family that borrowed money for the boy to get better. In life, there are people who are very ungrateful. The boy I mentioned in my story started complaining that there was no food on the table and that there was no furniture in the house, until he was made to realise that the family sold all those things for him to get well. Why am I saying this? I am telling the people of Zambia that this Government borrowed so that they can have access to better primary health care as well as more school infrastructure in the country.

 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I drafted something and I will read from my own text. Our society today is thirsty for a great want. The greatest want of our society today is real and honest politicians and leaders.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kasandwe: It needs politicians and leaders who will not be bought or sold for political expedience. Our country needs politicians with honest and true consciences. It needs politicians who do not fear reality; they scan reality as it presents itself, and will call what is prevailing by its right name. This society is thirsty for politicians and leaders whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the hole. It needs leaders and politicians who will stand with the people through thick and thin, no matter the situation.

 

Mr Speaker, this is what the PF is doing. Yes, we have disasters such as hunger. At its press conference today, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) announced that 450,000 people will receive relief food this week. There are politicians and leaders who are real and empathetic to what their people are going through.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kasandwe: Our society needs politicians and leaders who will not be bought or sold for cheap political propaganda or expedience. The political expedience is meant to incite people to hate. That is undesirable and non-progressive.

 

Mr Speaker, Pilate betrayed Jesus Christ because he wanted to please Caesar. Similarly, there are people who are betraying the people of Zambia because of political expedience. It is high time the leaders in this House began telling the people of Zambia the truth. It hurts them that the PF is delivering. Tell the people the truth that PF is delivering, therefore it is going nowhere.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Machila (Magoye): Mr Speaker, I will begin my debate by looking at the theme of the speech by the hon. Minister of Finance as follows: 

 

“Sir, the theme for the 2020 Budget is: “Focussing National Priorities Towards Stimulating the Domestic Economy.” For this Budget to achieve its objectives, it will require us to deliver on our commitment with discipline, determination and dedication.”

 

Mr Speaker, this is the departure point: “Discipline, determination and dedication.” My first question is: Is there any discipline in the PF Government?

 

Hon. UPND Members: No!

 

Mr Machila: Is there any genuine determination in the PF Government?

 

Hon. UPND Members: No!

 

 Hon. PF Members: Yes!

 

Mr Machila: Sir, in my view the answer is no, and I have points to justify that. Has the PF Government adhered to commitment and dedication? The answer is a capital no. Firstly, compliance levels in terms of budgetary allocations are very low.

 

The Patriotic Front (PF) Government has presents very flamboyant and attractive Budgets, yet compliance levels have remained very low, year in and year out. Where funds have been released, they are either too late or they are very erratic. When funds have been released to appropriate ministries, there is another big challenge, which is indiscipline. We read more about misappropriation of funds that have been assigned to various ministries and when people say that there is misappropriation of funds, the question that comes from the Executive is: Can you give us the names? The answer is: refer to the report by the Auditor-General. The report keeps outlining those that have misused the public resources. The names and the figures are going up. Why are they going up? It is because those who have been cited for abusing resources have not been punished.

 

For example in 2017, one particular civil servant in the Ministry of General Education was cited in the Auditor-General’s report as having misappropriated K3 million, yet this individual is moving freely in the streets of Lusaka. Where is the discipline? Where is the dedication towards the Budget performance? With such indiscipline you cannot achieve anything that has been outlined in the Budget. Therefore, in my view, I find it very difficult to believe that this Budget will actually grow the economy of this country.

 

Mr Speaker, the other issue which is a big challenge to actualizing the Budget, attractive as it may be, is the issue of corruption. Corruption is endemic in the PF Government. I will give you another example. The Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) board reported a lot of corruption associated to a lot of people who are politically inclined. Guess what happened after that. The board was dissolved. That was political interference.

 

Sir, now we are exposed to a new miracle. I know miracles have been happening but they are very few. It is only under the PF Government that miracles are still happening. We have forty-eight houses whose owners are unknown, and when you investigate who the owners are or who the owner is, you are told that the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) does not know yet there should be records from the Ministry of Lands to show who was offered the title deed. There should have been a report from the local government or the council indicating those details yet …

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for giving me this opportunity to allow me to rise on a very serious point of order which is arising from the debate by the hon. Member on the Floor. I am sure you have guided from the time we started debating at 1430 hours and we are also aware that under our Standing Orders, we are supposed to be relevant in our debates. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to start debating on matters that are neither in the Budget Address nor form part of today’s debate?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Corruption, it is there!

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker I am aware that the hon. Minister of Finance did not mention any corruption anywhere in his Budget Speech. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to drag or bring in the issue of forty-eight houses when there is no such Vote or statement in the Budget Speech? I have a copy of the Budget Speech which I am going to lay on the Table of the House.

 

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Well, I have been following the hon. Member of Parliament who is on the Floor, and I think even when you look at the word corruption, it may not miss when looking at the National Budget.

 

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: I have followed the hon. Member’s debate so well, and he is very much in order, especially that …

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Second Deputy Speaker: …when hon. Ministers are given the Floor, they will respond to what is being said by the hon. Members on the left.  In addition, the hon. Backbenchers who have not yet spoken can also respond to what the hon. Member for Magoye is saying. I think the hon. Member debating is very much in order, and he should be ready to listen when the other side starts responding.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: You may continue with your debate, hon. Member for Magoye.

 

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I was looking at the challenges of actualising this Budget, and corruption was one of the bottlenecks that would make it very difficult to implement it. I have mentioned the forty-eight miracle houses and that it is surprising that apparently, there is no traceable record on the said houses from the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources. Furthermore, the record could also not be found at the Ministry of Local Government. Surely, when connecting power to those properties, the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) should have known who the owner is. Similarly, the company responsible for connecting water should have known who the owner of the houses was. Tenants also pay rentals to an individual. So, how, then, can we fail to find the owner of these properties?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Machila: Then if we have all these challenges, it becomes very difficult to actualise the Budget. In terms of corruption, it is in public domain that people have talked about the overpriced fire tenders which cost US$1million each, yet the Government has not come out in the open to challenge that public outcry. There is also the issue of the over-priced ambulances. All these issues become stumbling blocks to actualising the Budget that has been well laid out. I say so because if we get resources that are meant to grow the economy, and redirect them elsewhere, then we cannot actualise development.

 

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about climate change. In his speech to this House, the President clearly explained the issue of climate change. I think he mentioned climate change about forty-six times in his speech. Yes, climate change is real, and its impact has affected Zambia negatively.

 

Mr Musukwa: Ebwaume ubo!

 

Mr Machila: However, when we look at agriculture -

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I hope you will quickly connect to the Budget.

 

Mr Machila: Yes, Sir.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: We are not debating the President’s Speech.

 

It is just a reminder. You may continue with your debate.

 

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I am connecting the Presidential Speech on climate change to the Budget Speech in which the hon. Minister alluded to some of the challenges ascribed to climate change. I am then tying it to agriculture where the hon. Minister of Finance has allocated minimal resources, yet it is impacted by climate change. Yes, climate change is natural in terms of inadequate rainfall and so on, but some aspect of it is induced by man and the PF Government.

 

Sir, why I am saying so? When it came to the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), some farmers deposited their funds upfront but the PF Government delayed in redeeming or putting in the counterpart funds, and that led to poor harvest.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

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The House adjourned at 1957 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 4th October, 2019.

 

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