Wednesday, 12th February, 2020

Wednesday, 12^th February, 2020

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

DELEGATION FROM THE PARLIAMENT OF LESOTHO

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the following hon. Members and staff from the Parliament of the Kingdom of Lesotho:

Hon. S. T. Rapapa, MP - Chairperson, Portfolio Committee on Economic and

Development Cluster

Hon. F. Moshoeshoe, MP - Chairperson, Portfolio Committee on Social

Cluster

Hon. L. Mosito, MP - Portfolio Committee on Law and Public Safety

Hon. K. Mathaba, MP - Chairperson, Portfolio Committee on Natural

Resources, Tourism and Land Cluster

Hon. M. Ramakoae, MP - Chairperson, Portfolio Committee on Prime

Minister’s Ministries and Departments,

Governance, Foreign Relations and Information

Cluster

Hon. N. Moakhi, MP - Chairperson, Sustainable Development

Goals Monitoring Committee

Hon. M. Hlao, MP - Chairperson, HIV and AIDS Committee

Hon. L. Rakuoane, MP - Chairperson Ethics, Code of Conduct, Immunities

and Privileges Committee

Ms Relebohile Mariti - Committee Clerk

Ms Mamolemo Sekotlane - Committee Clerk

Ms Mamateba Lehohla - Committee Clerk

Ms Mamolete Jessie - Committee Clerk

Ms Ithabeleng Molefi - Committee Clerk

Ms Malefu Molikoe - Committee Clerk

Ms Joalane Ramarou - Committee Clerk

Ms Makutloano Bless - Committee Clerk

I wish, on behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, to receive our distinguished guests and warmly welcome them in our midst.

I thank you.

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

TOWNSHIP ROADS REHABILITATION IN KAFUE DISTRICT

91. Mrs Chinyama (Kafue) asked the Minister of Local Government:

whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate township roads in Kafue District;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
how many kilometres were earmarked for rehabilitation in 2019.

The Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Ms Kapata) (on behalf of the Minister of Local Government (Dr Banda)): Mr Speaker, Mrs Chinyama, the hon. Member for Kafue, is asking the hon. Minister of Local Government –

Mr Mwiinga: Seer 1!

Laughter

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, Seer I –

Interruptions

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister –

Ms Kapata: It is your president who is Seer 1’s friend. Do not say that to me.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, continue.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, sorry about that distraction.

Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to rehabilitate township roads in Kafue District.

Sir, the Government is implementing the construction of township roads in a phased manner and priority is being given to projects that are nearing completion and are at 80 per cent, and we will start with provincial centres.

Mr Speaker, the plans to rehabilitate township roads in Kafue District will be implemented once the ongoing works are completed and funds for the project are secured.

Sir, the kilometres earmarked for construction are 15 km depending on the availability of funds.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, were the 400 township roads in Kafue rehabilitated? Further, are they the ones that need to be rehabilitated at the moment?

Mr Speaker: Did you say 400 township roads?

Mr Muchima: The Lusaka 400 Kilometre Project (L400 Km Project).

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, so far, the Road Development Agency (RDA) has worked on 5 km of the Lusaka 400 Kilometre Project (L400 Km Project) Phase III in Kafue.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Chinyama: Mr Speaker, there is a bit of misinformation, and the hon. Minister may wish to check as to what is actually happening on the ground with regard to the answer that she has just given.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kafue, that is not your function. If you have a question, just ask it.

Mrs Chinyama: Mr Speaker, let me ask my question. The hon. Minister said that only 15 km of township roads in Kafue will be rehabilitated. Maybe, I have no question, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: That is commendable.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Mr Speaker, does the ministry have a time frame for the project, regardless of whether it has funds or not?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I cannot talk about the time frame right now because the money is not available. When the money is available, the Government will state the time frame for the project.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, were the roads to be constructed under the Lusaka 400 Kilometre Project (L400 Km Project) supposed to be constructed using funds mobilised locally or from borrowed funds?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the main question is not talking about the L400 Km Project. That is a new question, so, I ask the hon. Member to file a question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, hon. Ministers have a traditional way of answering questions. When we ask for development in our constituencies, they always respond that the Government will only carry out the projects when funds are available. From the time I came to this House, this is the answer they have been giving to the Backbenchers, whenever they ask questions. However, I know that next year, the Patriotic Front (PF) is going. When will the Government start working on the projects and when will the money be available in this PF rule? Every time we ask about projects, we are told that they will be implemented when money will be available. When is the money going to be available for the Government to carry out this project?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, it is a fact that we can only implement projects when money is available. We cannot do anything without money. We need money to implement projects. So, when money is made available, we shall construct the roads.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Chinyama: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister now confirming that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is actually broke?

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this very serious point of order anchored on Articles 11, 12, 13, 21 and 22 of the Constitution of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, is Her Honour the Vice-President (pointing at her) and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs –

Mr Speaker: Just mind your finger, hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in order to abrogate their responsibilities pertaining to the provision of security in this country in times of elections, and the general peace and security for our people in the country? Is Honour the Vice-President in order to allow her Ministers to be spewing hate speeches whenever they have meetings in this country, thereby creating tension in the country?

Mr Speaker, I am aware that the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) cannot answer for itself on the Floor of this House. The authority who responds when we raise issues pertaining to the ECZ is Her Honour the Vice-President. The point of order I am raising is: Is she not aware that the ECZ has failed to manage elections in this country and has left that role to be managed by the police? We are aware of what has been happening in Chilubi.

With your indulgence Mr Speaker –

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Monze Central, please, resume your seat.

A point of order should be a point of order, meaning that you should be specific and ideally brief. I do not have to state what I have repeatedly stated here namely, that points of order are primarily meant to bring to the notice of the presiding officers breaches of rules of the House. That is a primary function of a point of order. However, we have made provision for exceptions, but even then, you need to be specific and brief. The risk you run is that of debating your very point and supplying evidence, which I believe may not be your desire anyway. So, if you have a specific point of order to raise, I will still give you the latitude to do so.

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, the point I am raising is that the ECZ is abrogating its role. It has allowed the police to take over the running of the election in Chilubi and to cancel meetings that were sanctioned by it and all the parties. The leaders of political parties were made to move out of Chilubi without campaigning, and that is the issue I am raising regarding the ECZ.

Mr Speaker, is Honour the Vice-President in order to allow the ECZ to abrogate its responsibility to manage elections in this country?

The point of order on the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is: Why has he allowed his officials to take over the responsibilities of the ECZ to manage elections in this country and fail to protect the rights of the members who are participating in these elections?

Mr Speaker, you have to take judicial notice that there has been violence in Chilubi –

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Monze Central, I believe you have raised your point of order.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, are they in order to be purporting to be responsible for peace and order in this country when they have failed to protect the rights of the individuals participating in the elections?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Let us have order!

My ruling is that since your point of order touches on the conduct and performance of public and statutory functions of two agencies – and in order to enable the respective offices, namely, the Office of the Vice-President and, indeed, the Office of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, to adequately respond to that issue, and also in the process liaise with the appropriate agencies – I urge you to file a question.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kafue, you had completed your question. Would you like to repeat it for avoidance of doubt?

Mrs Chinyama: Yes, Mr Speaker. I was distracted.

Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm and reaffirm whether her response that there is no money means that the Government is broke. We approved the Budget for this financial year six weeks ago and we are only in the second month of this fiscal year. So, how can there be no money to undertake programmes like these?

Ms Kapata laughed.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, on a serious note, I would like to state that if the hon. Member for Kafue knew that there was no money, she would not have asked for the development that she is asking for. I am being very frank on the Floor of the House that there is currently no money, but it is being mopped up. However, I said that when money will be made available, the roads will be worked on.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Finance for issuing a very candid statement on the state of affairs of the finances of this country this morning. In his statement, the hon. Minister of Finance indicated that 50 per cent of the available revenue in the Budget goes towards salaries, 40 per cent towards debt servicing and what remains is 10 per cent. If that is the position, how is the hon. Minister of Local Government going to raise the money for the projects that my sister has asked to be done in Kafue? There is only 10 per cent, and it may not even be available.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, that question should have been directed to the hon. Minister of Finance. However, let me repeat my answer to part (b) of the substantive question. I said that:

“The Government is implementing the construction of township roads in a phased manner and priority is being given to projects that are nearing completion.”

I said that on this Floor, and priority will be given to provincial centres, and that is my answer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

BRIDGE CONSTRUCTION IN LUANO DISTRICT

92. Mr Mutale (Chitambo) (on behalf of Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South)) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

(a) how many bridges were constructed in Luano District from 2011 to 2018;

(b) whether there are any bridges that had collapsed as of March, 2019;

(c) if so, how many had collapsed, name by name;

(d) whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate the Mkushi Bridge in Luano District; and

(e) if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, from 2011 to 2018, five bridges were constructed in Luano District as follows:

(a) Kampoko;

(b) Lunsemfwa;

(c) Maunda; and

(d) two bridges were constructed during the Katula/Kamanga Mining Road construction.

Sir, as of March, 2019, none of the bridges had collapsed. However, due to the flash floods that were experienced, the southern approach to Maunda Bridge was partly washed away together with the embankment while the western approach on the Kampoko Bridge was also damaged. Both approaches and embankments have since been reinstated.

Mr Speaker, none of the bridges had collapsed as of March 2019.

Sir, the Government has plans to rehabilitate the Mkushi Bridge in Luano District and the rehabilitation works will commence once the water levels go down. In fact, the works will resume and not commence because we have already commenced the works.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to be very specific –

Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, I apologise to the senior hon. Member from Ikeleng’i for disrupting his question.

Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Article 100 of the Constitution of Zambia on the election of the President of the country states that he who is to be nominated or elected as President must be a Zambian citizen.

Mr Speaker, my child asked me a very serious question the day before yesterday.

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, as you can see, I cannot be moved by some useless people who are talking.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member –

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Let us have some order, please!

Hon. Member, can you withdraw that statement.

Mr Jamba: I withdraw it, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, my son asked me: “Father, what are you hiding from us? Why can you not tell us what we did as Tongas?”

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: He asked me a very serious question.

Mr Speaker, I am one person –

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, give me a moment. Resume your seat.

If everybody here decides to be responsible for managing order in this House, there will be disorder. I have said before that let us learn to be tolerant. I have to hear what he has to say before I decide one way or the other, but before I even hear what he has to say, you want to stop him. So, how do we transact when mid-stream his sentence, you say stop. How can I make a judgment when mid-stream a sentence, you want to pass a judgment? I will deal with whatever he wants to say, and that is my prerogative.

Hon. Member for Mwembezhi, you may continue.

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, the question which I could not really answer was: “What did we do? What are you hiding from us, that which, we, as Tongas, did to other tribes?” He also asked me a simple question: “What is the qualification for one to be a President?” This is because he heard some people say that no Tonga can be President. Further, just to add salt to the wound, for lack of a better word, a nonentity …

Mr Chabi: Withdraw that!

Mr Jamba: … stood and said that if you go to the Southern Province, you can be killed, and if you are lucky, you can be put on a bus to come back. However, in our village, our chairperson is Bemba and the other one is Ngoni.

Mr Speaker, I am here as a displeased person, such that if there was a way –

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

I gave guidance a short while ago that points of order should be brief. This is not the occasion to debate. Do not debate. You started off with the Constitution. Let us hear what you have to say about the Constitution.

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, I am made to understand that the Constitution in that article I mentioned states that for one to be President, he/she just has to be a bona fide Zambian or be born here in Zambia. The notion the children are now hearing that no Tonga qualifies to be President is a very serious abnormality, which we want to know.

Mr Speaker, is it okay for the Government or Her Honour the Vice-President, who is here, to come – Yesterday, I was anticipating that they were going to come and clear this notion. Even today, I was anticipating that they were going to issue a statement, but they are quiet about it. If this country has failed to unite and sit as one, then, why can they not say that we divide it?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: What is your point of order?

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, my point of order is: why is Her Honour the Vice-President or the Government Spokesperson, who is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting, not clarifying the issue about the Tongas? I am Tonga and I do not want to speak like one.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, are you through?

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, my point of order is: Why is the Government silent about this serious matter? Why can they not come and clarify this issue so that, if anything, I tell my children that we are not part of this country …

Mr Chabi: Iwe!

Mr Jamba: … and we are not supposed to go ahead. Ichipuba!

Mr Speaker: Very well. Resume your seat.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Let us have order!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The only way to break the silence on the Government’s part, where you deem there is silence, is to ask a question, and your colleagues will respond. Ask them a question whether it is about who qualifies to be President or who does not qualify conversely, and they will advise you.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Just in case others still want to pursue this subject, it will not be possible in the context of a point of order. You have to find other avenues. It is not for me to counsel you about those avenues. The rules and procedures are clear. So, let us not use points of order. It is most inappropriate to address it through a point of order. I am part of this country and I follow these events. I am not from Mars, for avoidance of doubt.

Hon. Member for Ikeleng’i, you may continue.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that they are waiting for the water levels to be low so that the works can resume and I would like him to be very specific. Were the works paid for or does the ministry intend to mobilise the money for the works to continue because what we know is that there is currently no money for everything, and that is not the only bridge. Does the ministry have the money specifically for this project or was the money already paid to the contractor?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the construction of the bridge commenced sometime back. In fact, there is a question concerning the same bridge, even though it is a part of this question. So, I will give a comprehensive answer to that one. However, the project started sometime back and monies were made available, but the works stopped because of the rains.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Mwape (Mkushi North): Mr Speaker, the Mkushi Bridge is very important for the people of Mkushi and Luano because it connects the two districts. As the House might be aware, Mkushi is a farming area, and since this is the farming season, this bridge is used for the transportation of the farm produce. The hon. Minister has indicated that the Government has plans to rehabilitate the bridge. Could he kindly tell the people of Luano and Mkushi the time frame for the project, so that we can know the period during which the bridge will be worked on.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I beg that I conclusively deal with this matter when the substantive question for that bridge comes up after a few questions.

I seek your indulgence, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I will grant you leave.

GWEMBE POLICE POST REHABILITATION

93. Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe) (on behalf of Ms Chisangano (Gwembe)) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate Gwembe Police Post;
if so, when the plans will be implemented;
what the estimated cost of the project is; and
when a vehicle will be procured for the police post to ease operational challenges.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, the Government does not have any immediate plan of rehabilitating Gwembe Police Post.

Sir, as stated above, there is no immediate plan to construct the police post. Since there is no immediate plan, there is no estimated cost for the project.

Mr Speaker, the Government does not have any immediate plan to procure a motor vehicle for Gwembe Police Post in Gwembe District. However, Gwembe Police Station has been supporting the operations at Gwembe Police Post. Gwembe Police Station will be allocated some motor vehicles when vehicles are delivered in view of the project being implemented by the Zambia Police Service and those vehicles will be used to service Gwembe Police Post.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, when are those vehicles going to be available in the country so that Gwembe can also be catered for?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, all things being equal, the motor vehicles are expected before the end of the year.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, why does the Ministry of Home Affairs not have plans to rehabilitate Gwembe Police Post?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the Government has not planned for that police post and consequently, no budget line has been provided. The hon. Member is aware that we are now focusing on projects that are above 80 per cent, and I am sure she has seen the massive projects that are being implemented under the Ministry of Home Affairs. After those projects are done, we will then consider Gwembe Police Post.

I thank you, Sir.

TREASURY SINGLE ACCOUNT

94. Mr Chiyalika (Lufubu) asked the Minister of Finance:

what the rationale for introducing the Treasury Single Account (TSA) is;
what the benefits and challenges of having the TSA are; and
what measures are being taken to overcome the challenges.

The Minister of Finance (Dr Ng’andu): Mr Speaker, the TSA is a unified structure of bank accounts that gives the Government a consolidated position of its cash resources. The TSA is a financial policy and a modern day cash management tool used in several countries all over the world. In Zambia, the TSA was implemented in the Ministry of Finance on 5^th January, 2015.

Sir, prior to the establishment of the TSA, ministries, provinces and agencies had fragmented bank accounts which led to a high cost of managing Government bank accounts. I wish to indicate that the primary objective of the TSA is to ensure that there is effective aggregate control over Government cash balances and reduction of redundant steps in the payment process. The TSA enables the Government to consolidate cash resources on a daily basis and reduce borrowing which is necessitated by perceived cash shortages arising from holding many Government bank accounts and fragmented systems for handling receipts and payments.

Mr Speaker, the benefits of the TSA are as follows:

gives efficiency in the payment process;
creates clarity of funds and inflows and outflows;
availability of information in real time;
efficient and accurate cash and debt management;
facilitates regular monitoring of Government cash balances in real time;
gives great transparency in public financial management; and
facilitates accounting and improved reporting.

Sir, the major challenges being encountered as a result of having the TSA are as follows:

intermitted network connectivity due to old infrastructure in the Ministry of Finance;
system failure due to power outages; and
although the efficiency of processing payments has been enhanced and has reduced the cost of stationery, the Treasury still has some work to do in order to reduce the cost that is associated with running the system.

Mr Speaker, the measures being taken to overcome the challenges of the TSA are:

through the Smart Zambia Institute, the Government manages the network infrastructure and network related issues to enable the smooth operation of the TSA;
the Treasury has installed a generator to ensure the continuity of power supply; and
regarding the challenges arising from the cost of stationery, the Government plans to implement fully electronic payments for the TSA.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr A. C. Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, considering the fact that the Treasury Single Account (TSA) was created in 2015, one of its benefits should have been to curb the misappropriation of funds. However, the subsequent reports of the Auditor-General have continued showing many cases of misapplication of funds. What is the ministry doing to review this?

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, the misappropriation of funds does not take place at the level of the TSA but in ministries and various agencies. It sometimes happens after people withdraw the resources in the normal way and, then, misapply or misuse them. So, it is difficult to link the misappropriation of funds to the TSA. In fact, the TSA helps the process because it keeps a good and clean record of the ins and outs, and at any moment in time, one can audit the inflows and outflows. So, in a sense, it actually helps to stop the misappropriation of funds.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I congratulate the Patriotic Front (PF) Government for implementing this very successful undertaking. However, how much did it cost to operationalise the Treasury Single Account (TSA)? I am aware that Nigeria has gone the same way, and it cost them 1 per cent of the revenue collected.

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, I am not in a position to give the exact cost of running the TSA on a monthly or weekly basis, but all I can say at this stage is that the TSA has helped in the efficient management of our funds, and one would be reasonable in assuming that in fact, it has helped to reduce the management costs of Government funds. However, at this point in time, I do not know the exact amount that was spent to operationalise it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, I know that one of the challenges of the Treasury Single Account (TSA) has to do with the Value Added Tax (VAT) refunds. Money that does not belong to the Government goes to that account and ends up being abused by the Government as it does not refund the companies. What is the Government doing to ensure that that comes to an end?

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, funds that are intended to be used for the purpose of Value Added Tax (VAT) repayments are ring-fenced. The current system is such that the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) indicates to the Central Bank the monies that need to be ring-fenced purely for the purpose of making VAT refunds and those amounts do not end up in the TSA. The TSA works in a way that on a daily basis, the officers look at the debts that are due for payments and automatically pays those debts. So, if an amount that is ring-fenced for a different purpose is put in the TSA, that amount will be spent for a purpose other than what it was intended. To avoid that, VAT amounts are always ring-fenced to the Central Bank, specifically at the request of the ZRA.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’ambi (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, how much annual licence fees is the Government paying to the developers of the system of the Treasury Single Account (TSA)?

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, I do not have that information with me right now but I can find out.

I thank you, Sir.

ELECTRIFICATION PROJECT IN NALOLO

95. Mr Imbuwa (Nalolo) asked the Minister of Energy:

why the electrification of Nalolo District Administrative Centre has stalled;
when the project will resume; and
what the time frame for the completion of the project is.

Mr Imbuwa: Mr Speaker, I request for the withdrawal of this question as the project is back on track and nearing completion.

Mr Speaker: Very well. It is a very commendable thing to do.

ZAMBIA POLICE THRIFT AND CREDIT CO-OPERATIVE SOCIETY

97. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) (on behalf of Mr Mutelo) (Mitete)) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

when the Zambia Police Thrift and Credit Co-operative Society was formed;
whether police officers still contribute to the society;
whether the contributions are compulsory;
when the savings are accessed by the members; and
whether the officers who are retired in national interest access their savings immediately they are retired.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the Zambia Police Thrift and Credit Co-operative Society was formed on 11^th March, 1954.

Sir, yes, indeed, some officers still contribute to the society.

Mr Speaker, the scheme is voluntary.

Sir, the members can access their savings at any time subject to the availability of funds.

Mr Speaker, the officers retired in national interest can also access their savings on retirement provided the Ministry of Finance releases the funds.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, some members die whilst in service and sometimes their relatives do not have information about the scheme. How can they get information as to whether their deceased family member contributed to the scheme?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, when an officer passes on, those appointed as administrators of the estate or the next of kin is given information on all the necessary dues that the deceased officer accrued. So, the deceased police officer’s relatives are made aware of whether he was a member of the Zambia Police Thrift and Credit Co-operative Society.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

NATSAVE BUILDING CONSTRUCTION IN MUFUMBWE DISTRICT

Mr Kamondo asked the Minister of Finance:

whether the Government has any plans to construct the National Savings and Credit Bank building in Mufumbwe District;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
if there are no such plans, why.

Dr Ng'andu: Mr Speaker, the National Savings and Credit Bank (NATSAVE) will not be building a physical branch in Mufumbwe, but will still provide financial services to the people of Mufumbwe through the application of the bank’s new cost to save model that is digital-driven through money window and agency banking. The bank will continue to reach all parts of rural Zambia as part of driving its social mandate of financial inclusion. Currently, the bank has thirty-eight branches, and out of those, seventeen are in places where NATSAVE is the only financial service provider. The bank also runs five money windows throughout the country.

Sir, the bank plans to implement and roll out this digital-driven cost to save model by June 2020, and Mufumbwe will be among the rural areas that will be considered.

Mr Speaker, in view of my response to the two parts of the question, part (c) of the question is not applicable.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I sympathise with the people of Mufumbwe. For this financial inclusion –

Mr Kambita: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me to raise this very serious point of order on the hon. Member for Kaputa, Mr Ng’onga. Is the hon. Member for Kaputa in order to deliberately leave the House so his question on the Order Paper can lapse just because it talks about violence? The issue of violence is contentious at the moment, and people are being maimed in Chilubi.

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that I would not want to speculate as to why he is not in the House. That is all I can say.

Hon. Member for Ikeleng’i, you may continue.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister referred to financial inclusion. Is he aware that people in districts such as Mufumbwe have lived without financial services? Further, post offices that would provide services in most parts of the North-Western Province have closed. How soon is the Government going to implement the financial inclusion programme in Mufumbwe?

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, in my response to the question, I indicated that NATSAVE intends to implement and roll out its digital driven cost to save model by June 2020 in Mufumbwe, to be specific. I also stated that this will be driven through what we call a money window. Maybe to help the hon. Member to understand, let me explain what a money window is. It is basically a sub-branch. It performs all the standard cash transactions related to a branch, but does not issue documentary financial products. It operates under a parent branch for supervision, and the number of staff can be a minimum of three and a maximum of seven. It exists as a low cost exhibition model under the regulations of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ), and the advantage of this is that it can be done cost effectively. If NATSAVE contrasts this with putting up a branch, it will probably spend not less than K273,000 to put up a branch. So, obviously, that will take time, but this solution is easy and quick to deliver. We need to understand that we are all progressively moving to the digital platform. So, Mufumbwe will be one of the rural areas that will benefit from this innovation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, one of the challenges in rural areas is that of lack of accommodation, and Mufumbwe is actually one of those places where there is no accommodation. Could the hon. Minister assure me whether the Government will construct a small building in which it will house this project that we are talking about.

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, I am a little bit baffled by the question because I am not in the business of accommodation. I thought the question I was being asked was whether we will provide financial services to the people of Mufumbwe, and I have given the model under which the bank will provide services to them. In the provision of services, three or so people may be employed, but those who will be employed will seek accommodation, like many other people who live in Mufumbwe who work for various institutions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, the accommodation that I talked about is the housing –

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing the good people of Choma Central Constituency to raise this point of order anchored on national interest and the preservation, upholding and defending of the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia. I rise in good faith to raise this point of order given the state of the nation at the present moment.

Mr Speaker, information regarding the Chilubi Constituency by-election is very disturbing. We have received a lot of reports of violence, which are in the public domain. I recall that at the tip end of last year, I brought a Motion on the Floor of this House to urge the Executive to take measures to curb political violence to which unprecedentedly they agreed, but what is happening on the ground is totally different. There is mayhem in Chilubi. Our colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF) are on record, on the Floor of the House, stating that wherever there is violence during a by-election, it is in a United Party for National Development (UPND) stronghold, but the worst violence recorded in the history of political violence in Zambia is occurring in Chilubi right now.

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: They have spoken about the Mapatizya Formula, yet there was no blood in Mapatizya. Look at the images coming out of Chilubi, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Mr Mweetwa: This is serious. We are leaders. Do not come here to play games.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Choma Central, just make your point of order.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I am laying ground and rationale to my question because whilst some of us here are comfortable in this air conditioned environment, people out there are being maimed at the hands of this reckless PF Government ...

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: … and we cannot sit here and pretend that all is well.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Choma Central, I have given guidance on these issues and I have no doubt in my mind that you are able to frame a point of order, if you so wish. Certainly, this is not time to debate. It is either you have a point of order or you do not, but you should certainly not debate. A point of order is a point of order. What is the point?

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, my point of order is that the political violence happening in Chilubi is inimical and obnoxious to the unity, progress and peace of this country, just like tribalism which was lumped on the UPND when the true tribalists have now come out in the open –

Hon. Government Members: Who?

Mr Mweetwa: Yourselves! Just like satanism! Seer 1 has now exposed you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Choma Central –

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Let us have order!

Hon. Member for Choma Central, I think I am being extremely gracious. I will give you the last opportunity. If you fail, I will simply curtail you because you are now bringing in extraneous matters, all and sundry, and you are meandering and wandering. What is your point?

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, I will not let you down; you were my lecturer. My point of order is: Is the Government in order to remain quiet and not update the House and address the nation about the unprecedented violence that has got out of hand in Chilubi because the nation is anxious? We have never reached this point before. This is a break point when we have a Government that claims and professes to be democratically elected. Are they in order to sit the way they are seated and pretend as though all is well when the people out there are anxious? They do not know the state of the nation and where we are going.

I need your ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is as follows: Next week on Tuesday, I will allow the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to give an account of public order and public safety relating to the election that would have been conducted in Chilubi.

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, I am sure that the hon. Minister is aware that Cavmont Bank, which was the only bank in Mufumbwe, closed its branch last year, and we do not know when they will leave. The hon. Minister said that NATSAVE will open a branch in Mufumbwe. However, there are no buildings in Mufumbwe where a bank can open a branch. Is the Government considering building a small place where NATSAVE will operate from?

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, I indicated that NATSAVE will avoid putting up a building, but will instead open a money window. A money window is a small office that requires three or four people and probably not more than that. Depending on the cost, NATSAVE will look around for a building that it could probably rent for that purpose, such as the former Cavmont Bank building, which is still available. So, in order for the bank to carry out the services under the money window, it will look for a building, and I am sure it will find one. However, I do not know whether there will be a need for it to construct one or it will possibly get one of the empty premises within Mufumbwe for it to use for that purpose.

I thank you, Sir.

BUS STATION PROJECT IN CHINSALI DISTRICT

100. Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Local Government:

when the construction of the bus station in Chinsali District will be completed;
at what stage of completion, in percentage terms, the project was, as of June, 2019;
what the initial date of completion was;
what the revised completion date is;
what has caused the delay in completing the project; and
what measures are being taken to ensure that the project is completed as per revised schedule.

Ms Kapata (on behalf of Dr Banda): Mr Speaker, the time frame for completing the bus station in Chinsali District will only be ascertained once the project is funded. Currently, the project has stalled due to lack of funds.

Sir, as of June 2019, the project was at 20 per cent.

Mr Speaker, the initial date of completion was April 2016.

Sir, the revised completion date will only be established once funds are made available.

Mr Speaker, the delay in completing the project has been caused by lack of funding.

Sir, the only measure to ensure that the project is completed is to make funds available for the project.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, has there been any progress on the project from June 2019 to-date?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the project stalled due to the factors that I mentioned in my answer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

NEW TERMINAL BUILDING AND OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE CONSTRUCTION AT SOLWEZI AIRPORT

101. Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Transport and Communication:

whether the Government has any plans to construct a new terminal building and other infrastructure at Solwezi Airport;
if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Transport and Communication (Mr Kafwaya): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Zambia Airports Corporation Limited, has plans to modernise and upgrade Solwezi Airport, and the standards for all provincial and strategic aerodromes have been developed. As such, the Government intends to upgrade the runways to 2.5 km, include fuelling and passenger and cargo handling facilities in all aerodromes, as stipulated by the standards.

Sir, currently, the Zambia Airports Corporation Limited is working on a prioritisation plan and funding methodologies for the upgrade and modernisation of all airport infrastructure. The plan will be implemented once the exercises are completed and funds are made available. Therefore, part (c) of the question falls off.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr A. C. Mumba: Mr Speaker, maybe, the hon. Minister can make it simpler for the people of Kantanshi to appreciate his response. He said that after the prioritisation is done and funds are made available, the Government will upgrade the airport infrastructure. Could he, please, share with us what he means by prioritisation and who will make those funds available?

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, prioritisation in this sense means ranking in terms of the provincial airports and aerodromes that will be upgraded earlier than others in line with the projected availability of resources, and that will be done by the Zambia Airports Corporation Limited.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, thank you very much –

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, to me, my point of order amounts to a matter of urgency, which requires the Government not to be moved by anyone but to move itself in order to make clarifications on two unfortunate incidents in this country. There has been a spate of what people generally believe to be ritual murders and serial killers have been on the run on the Copperbelt for the last month or so. Through official media, we heard the police command indicate that the serial killers, as a matter of fact, once nearly apprehended turn into cats.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, there has been many questions in people’s minds and, secondly, we are told that the serial killers are now here in the city. There has been a lot of consternation in the nation and we are informed that the serial killers are patronising named areas within Lusaka every night and are gassing people and drawing blood from their systems with syringes for purposes of God knows what. On top of that, there have been heavy arguments between Government officials and the private sector on social media. The arguments have ensued as a result of a gentleman who answers to the name Andrew Ejimande, also known as Seer 1, who purports that hon. Members of the Executive on your right hand side –

Ms Kapata: Question!

Laughter

Mr Kambita: Jean! Jean!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, resume your seat.

Mr Nkombo: Thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Kapata: Ask him how much?

Mr Nkombo: The guilty are always afraid.

Mr Speaker: Order! Let us have –

Ms Kapata: Finshi mulelanda imwe?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Ministers, let us have order!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Let us have order!

This is a House of order.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Nkombo, I think the first part of your point of order is well taken, and I will make a ruling only on it. You can continue. Are you done?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I was saying that in the midst of this consternation in our nation and the anxiety of people losing blood through syringes, there have been arguments both in the Government and private media between the Government on your right hand side – and I recall the hon. Minister of Religious Affairs and National Guidance and the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs’ comments, about this involvement in the acquisition of supernatural powers from an individual who was deported from this country and answers to the name Andrew Ejimande, also known as Seer 1. Is the Government in order to remain silent without clarifying this matter which to us is not only urgent but is of utmost importance?

I seek your ruling, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

As I have already indicated, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs will address merely the first part of the point of order. I am sure he followed, but if he did not, I direct the Clerk to supply him with the transcript on the issue that touches on his portfolio as Minister responsible for home affairs. For those other supernatural issues, …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … you can excise them from your point of order.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, I will not trouble your office to deal with those supernatural issues, and the statement on the first part of the point of order should be rendered on Thursday next week.

Hon. Member for Solwezi Central, you may continue.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister generalised the answer to the question by Hon. Kasonso. Is the hon. Minister aware that Solwezi Airport is now one of the busiest airports in this country and that it has a modern runway? I need a straightforward answer from the hon. Minister. Does the Government have any plans to upgrade the infrastructure at Solwezi Airport? The hon. Minister should not generalise his answer.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, there is a Statutory Instrument (SI) to that effect that has established the standards and the airports included are as follows:

Kasama Airport in the Northern Province;
Solwezi Airport in the North-Western Province;
Chinsali Airport in Muchinga Province;
Chipata Airport in the Eastern Province; and
Choma Airport in the Southern Province.

Sir, there are aerodromes including south downs at Kasaba Bay that are earmarked for improvement according to the standards established in that SI. So, my answer was very specific.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONNECTION OF SIKONGO DISTRICT TO NATIONAL ELECTRICITY GRID

105. Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Energy:

when Sikongo District will be connected to the national electricity grid; and
what the cause of the delay in connecting the district is.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Nkhuwa): Mr Speaker, the project to connect Sikongo to the national grid is expected to be completed by the end of the first quarter of 2020. The first institutions to be connected will be the police camp, the hospital, the district administration and Sikongo Basic School. Thereafter, the connection of other institutions will continue once the respective institutions are ready to receive power. The overall project stands at 95 per cent.

Sir, the delay to connect Sikongo to the national grid has been caused by budgetary constraints.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, the initial plan was to put up a substation, but the hon. Minister has now talked about transformers. Are we going to have a substation in future so that the neighbouring schools and clinics can be connected?

Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, the answer is, yes, there are plans to put up a substation. Once funds are made available, the substation will be put up.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the responses given by the hon. Minister are not satisfying to the people of Kalabo. Technically, Kalabo District can only expand if Sikongo has a substation, which should man the two districts when completed. What measures will the hon. Minister put in place to extend power supply to the rural parts of Kalabo District whilst the substation is not operational to enable those parts to benefit from the power?

Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, the questions that the hon. Member for Sikongo asked were: when Sikongo District will be connected to the national electricity grid and what the cause of the delay in connecting the district is, and I will repeat my answer. The project to connect Sikongo to the national grid is expected to be completed by the end of the first quarter of 2020, which is this quarter. So, I do not know what other measures we can put in place. I think I already alluded to the answer when answering to part (a) of the question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I would like a bonus answer. How many more districts are yet to be connected to the national grid?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, you can supply the information if it is readily available.

Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, I am not ready with that information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga): Mr Speaker, what type of transmission lines will be put in Sikongo? Are they underground or overhead transmission lines?

Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, I am not sure whether they will be overhead or underground, but they will be connected in the first quarter of 2020.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, in 2019, I asked the same question and the hon. Minister said that Sikongo would be connected to the national grid by the end of the first quarter of that year, but the first quarter passed. This time again, he is talking of the first quarter of 2020. Is the hon. Minister sure that there will be power in Sikongo by the end of this quarter?

Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, in fact, we have just given ourselves a little more time. Power will soon be connected to Sikongo even before the end of March, and I am very sure of that.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa) Mr Speaker, connecting places to the national grid is about the physical connection, but importantly, the quality of that connection. We have been told that instead of putting substations, the Government will put transformers for a distance of about 80 km from one substation to where the transformers will be located. Could the hon. Minister assure the people of Sikongo that the transformers the Government will put will provide quality electricity that will not be tripping every now and then because of that long distance over which the electricity will be pushing? Could he, please, give that assurance.

Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, I realise that when there is a long connection, there is a drop in the voltage in the system, and that is taken care of by putting a number of transformers. The transformers are meant to boost the power to make it stable. So, the Government will put appropriate transformers and ensure that the quality of power is as expected.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, the Government was supposed to put one substation in Kalabo and another one in Sikongo. When will it finish putting the one in Kalabo before it puts the one in Sikongo?

Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, let me repeat that the main question is not about substations; it is about connecting Sikongo to the national grid. If the hon. Member wants to know more about the substations, he can file a question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

INCOMPLETE STRUCTURES AT KASAMA GENERAL HOSPITAL

106. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) (on behalf of Mr Sampa (Kasama Central)) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

when the construction works of the incomplete structures at Kasama General Hospital will be completed;
what the cause of the delay in completing the project is;
what the time frame for the completion of the outstanding works is; and
who the contractor for the project is.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the duration for completing the structures at Kasama General Hospital will only be known once the contract has been awarded.

Sir, the delay in completing the works is as a result of financial constraints and the need to prioritise projects that are at 80 per cent and above.

Mr Speaker, the time frame for completing the outstanding works will only be known once the Bill of Quantities (BoQs) are finalised.

Sir, currently, there is no contractor as the procurement for works has not commenced. The procurement of the contractor is subject to the finalisation of the BoQs and the availability of funds.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

POLICE POST PROJECT IN SENIOR CHIEF NDUNGU’S AREA

107. Ms Kucheka (Zambezi West) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

why the construction of the police post in Senior Chief Ndungu’s area in Zambezi West Parliamentary Constituency has stalled;
when the project will resume;
what the total cost of the project is; and
what the time frame for the completion of the project is.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the project stalled due to financial constraints.

Sir, the project will resume immediately funds are made available.

Mr Speaker, the project contract sum is K4.1 million.

Sir, the time frame for the completion of the project is twenty-four weeks once the works resume.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Kucheka: Mr Speaker, ema stalling aya.

Mr Speaker: What do you mean?

Ms Kucheka: Ema story.

Mr Speaker: Meaning what?

Ms Kucheka: Mr Speaker, meaning story after story. This project stalled in 2016 and it has been four years since it stalled. There are many killings in Zambezi West, and people are being killed by Karavinas. Last year, two days after the Likumbi Lyamize ceremony, someone was attacked by four men, two with AK 47 guns and two with axes, and they stood by his house until it was completely destroyed, and there was no police officer around. Is there anything that the hon. Minister can do for the people of Zambezi West so there can be police officers in the constituency?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I believe there are police officers in Zambezi, as a district. However, what is lacking is a police station, and that is why the Government thought that there is a need to have a police station in the area. I will relay that message to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to see what can be done to boost the personnel in the district. However, I believe there are police officers in the district even before the police station is completed. So, the Government is concerned about that, and I think the hon. Minister of Home Affairs can look into boosting personnel in the constituency even before we complete the project, which we will eventually complete.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr A. C. Mumba: Mr Speaker, I would like to seek clarification from the hon. Minister. The hon. Minister claims that a number of projects will continue to be constructed when funds are made available. Is he in a position to share with us some of the projects that are incomplete so we can explain to our constituents how the Government is going to go about to complete them? I noticed that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs answered the question on the construction of a police post in Gwembe, and the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development answered the one on the construction of a police post in Zambezi West. So, could the hon. Minister help us and give us a list of some of the projects so we can explain to our people.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, some projects which started before the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development was created are being managed by the line ministries. So, when people ask questions, we work together as ministries to get information to pass on. The projects that are now starting are actually being supervised and implemented by the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development, so, this is a transitional period. However, the construction of that police post started in 2014, which is two years before the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development was created. So, we worked together with the Ministry of Home Affairs to get all the information required, and what I have said here is what the hon. Minister of Home Affairs would actually tell the House.

Sir, the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development is pushing hard to find resources for all infrastructure projects that are currently being implemented. The Ministry of Finance gives us money and we decide the infrastructure projects to actually fund and that is why it is prudent or proper for me to actually answer even though some projects were started by other ministries. For example, I know for sure that K15 million for some schools has been released to us, even though they fall under a different ministry and this is what is happening. So, there is a systematic transition that is happening, but line ministries can answer or we can answer. We are all free to answer because, ultimately, we liaise.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the total cost of the project is about K4.1 million. The project stalled in 2014, and this is almost six years down the line. Is that the current value of the project or is it its value as of 2014?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, that was the cost of the project at the time the contract was signed. However, as project managers, we know that we will not pay the same amount. I am sure adjustments will have to be made because of the escalated costs of materials and the price of cement has been adjusted. So, at the time of resuming the works, the contractors and project managers will have to sit to see what adjustments to be made. However, we normally factor in contingency in the pricing and sometimes the escalated prices fall into the same percentage that is reserved as contingency. If it is above, then, we go back to the Ministry of Finance to seek fresh approval.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

FOREIGN NATIONALS SERVING AS JUDGES

108. Mr Chiyalika (Lufubu) asked the Minister of Justice:

(a) how many foreign nationals were serving as judges in Zambia as of 31^st January, 2019;

(b) whether there are any plans to reserve the position of judge for Zambians; and

(c) if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that as at 31^st January, 2019, the Judiciary in Zambia did not have any foreign national serving as judge.

Sir, there are no plans to reserve the position of judge for Zambians.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MAAKO-KELONGWA BOARDING SECONDARY SCHOOL PROJECT

109. Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

(a) when the construction of the Maako-Kelongwa Boarding Secondary School in Kasempa will be completed;

(b) what has caused the delay in completing the project; and

(c) at what stage of completion, in percentage terms, the project was, as of March 2019.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the construction of Maako-Kelongwa Boarding Secondary School in Kasempa District was scheduled for completion on 15^th December, 2019.

Sir, the delay in completing the project is due to financial constraints.

Mr Speaker, as of March 2019, the project was at 55 per cent. The time frame for completing the outstanding works is nine months.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, what is the outstanding amount for completing the project?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I said that we are in a transitional period and helping each other with information, but I had difficulties to find that information. I wish to seek your indulgence to allow us to give the hon. Minister a written answer. We tried to liaise with the project managers on the ground, but they could not find the information by the time I was coming to Parliament. So, I must admit that it was difficult to find the information. We anticipated such questions, but we only gathered very little information together with our colleagues on the other side. However, I commit to find that information in the next two days and to give the hon. Member a written answer if that will be acceptable.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Leave is granted.

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, there is a declaration in this country which says that without leaving anyone behind. I would like to inform the hon. Minister that the children in the schools I will mention are being left behind and will not achieve the equalisation that is supposed to be achieved through education because we hear that education is an equaliser. The school in question is supposed to serve children in remote areas or in places that are far away from the Central Business District (CBD) of Kasempa such as Kabanike, Muchumba –

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, I am anxious. Do you intend to ask a question?

Ms Tambatamba: Yes, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I see. You may continue.

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, I just wanted to let the hon. Minister know –

Mr Speaker: I have allowed you to continue.

Ms Tambatamba: Yes, Sir.

Mr Speaker, I was saying that the children in Mitumba, Kabanike, Nyoka, Mufwashi, including those at Kelongwa Primary School, where Maako is, are being left behind. What will the ministry do about closing the gap so that those children are not left behind because they have to go very far to reach a secondary school?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, that is the reason the Government decided to erect a secondary school in that area. It is a pity that we have not been able to find all the resources needed to complete it but our aim was to complete it by December, last year. By this time around, we would have had pupils learning at that facility. So, we are fully aware of this and we are concerned. We want those children to move together with everyone in the whole country. They should not be left behind because they do not deserve that. Every child in the country deserves an education and that is the Government’s commitment. It is a pity that we have just not been able to find the money to complete the school, but we committed to ensure that it is completed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, since the Government has taken long to complete that school, in liaison with his counterpart in the Ministry of General Education, is it not possible for them to consider upgrading one of the schools that the hon. Member for Kasempa mentioned to a secondary school, so that the children are not affected?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, if the funds are not made available, perhaps that could be a good option. However, we hope to find the money to complete the school as soon as possible, but I will relay that message to our colleagues in the Ministry of General Education and see if that can be done.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MONEY SPENT ON PARLIAMENTARY BY-ELECTIONS

110. Mr Simbao (Senga Hill) asked the Vice-President how much money was spent on conducting parliamentary by-elections in the following constituencies in 2018 and 2019:

Sesheke;
Mangango; and
Kasenengwa.

The Minister in the Office of the Vice-President (Mrs Mwansa): Mr Speaker, K14,920,999 was spent on the Sesheke Parliamentary by-election.

Sir, K14,877,228 was spent on the Mangango Parliamentary by-election.

Mr Speaker, K19,769,702 was spent on the Kasenengwa Parliamentary by-election.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, what exactly caused the by-elections? Then I will follow up with another question.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, what caused the by-elections?

Mrs Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the by-elections were caused by the passing on of the hon. Members of Parliament in the mentioned constituencies.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, is it part of the Office of the Vice-President’s responsibility to distribute maize meal, or simply unga, in areas where there are by-elections as part of relief food or as a way of canvassing for votes, as the case is in the current by-election where we lost another hon. Member via death?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let me give guidance. The question is on the quantum of monies spent on the by-elections and the hon. Minister in the Office of the Vice-President has given an answer.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: I am speaking. The hon. Minister in the Office of the Vice-President has given an answer and the follow up questions should relate to the main question, which is on the quantum of monies spent on the by-elections. This is not an occasion to now ask sundry questions on by-elections.

Dr Musokotwane rose.

Mr Speaker: Do you want to ask about the quantum of monies spent on the by-elections?

Dr Musokotwane: Yes, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Very well.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I believe Hon. Simbao asked the question on the quantum of monies spent on the by-elections, and obviously, this has an effect. Noting that by-elections are so expensive, the money spent on the by-elections in Sesheke, Mangango and Kasenengwa could have financed the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for twelve constituencies. Why is it that the Patriotic Front (PF) officials, hon. Ministers and District Commissioners (DCs) encourage councilors to resign, thereby causing by-elections that are expensive?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I will not allow that question, and I will explain. The focus or subject of the hon. Member’s question is encouraging by-elections. That is the issue the hon. Member is raising and that is not the subject of the main question.

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, we are now getting to thirty-two by-elections in the last few years. So, if one by-election costs about K19 million or K14 million, where does the Government get that money from, yet it is failing to fund other –

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mbangweta: Why are you saying ah?

Laughter

Mr Mbangweta: What is that all about?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, continue.

Mr Mbangweta: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for your protection.

Sir, the point I am trying to make is that the Government is failing to pay people who work for it such as the workers at the University of Zambia (UNZA) and other civil servants, but our colleagues are able to instigate by-elections and to find money. Where does that money come from?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, as you respond, the question is: Where does that money come from?

Mrs Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the money comes from the Treasury.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukumbuta: Mr Speaker, I am interested in the cost of the Sesheke by-election, which cost the Government K14,920,999. Was the medication for the people who were attacked by bees included in that amount?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Senga Hill, and that will be the last question.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I have noted that the total cost of those by-elections has come to nearly K50 million. As we consider the Constitution (Amendment) Bill No. 10, could we not take this opportunity to address the problem of by-elections and see how best they can be stopped so that the money wasted on by-elections can be used in a much more positive way, in this country?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, the Government respects constitutionalism, and as such, the Constitution details this nation to undertake an election ninety days after the passing on of an hon. Member of Parliament. The current Constitution, which is in use, requires the nation to have an election. So, if the hon. Members are so passionate about cutting costs of elections, I believe the provision regarding elections in the Constitution should be looked at so that, as a House, we unanimously agree to change the pattern in which we elect our members. It is advisable for the House to consider changing the provision regarding elections and the Constitution (Amendment) Bill No. 10 provides that opportunity for this country to do that.

I thank you, Sir.

RIOTS IN ITEZHI-TEZHI DISTRICT

111. Evg. Shabula (Itezhi-Tezhi) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

what caused the riots in Itezhi-Tezhi District on 1^st and 11^th March, 2019, that led to the death of one person and the injuring of two people;

what measures have been taken to prevent a recurrence of the riots;
why the police used live ammunition to disperse the rioters;
how many people were arrested, following the two incidents; and
what measures have been taken to avert loss of life when quelling riots anywhere in the country.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the riots on 1^st and 11^th March, 2019, were caused when a known businessman was suspected to have been practicing witchcraft.

Sir, the Zambia Police Service has been monitoring the situation and sensitising the community against taking the law into its own hands.

Mr Speaker, the police used live ammunition as the last option to disperse the unruly rioters.

Sir, thirty-seven suspects were arrested.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Police Service has procured non-lethal weapons such as rubber bullets and water cannons for use when quelling riots in the country, and they are yet to be distributed.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Evg. Shabula: Mr Speaker, the Zambia Police Force was converted to the Zambia Police Service, and what that means is that the police became friendly with the people, and would use brains and not bullets when dealing with the public. However, wherever there are riots in this country, the police always use live ammunition. The hon. Minister stated that the reason the police used live ammunition to disperse the people was because they were unruly. What does unruly mean? He did not say that the people were armed or that they had lethal weapons, but that they were unruly. When people are unruly, do the police have to use live ammunition to disperse them? The intention was not to disarm them because they were not armed. They were only unruly, and ‘unruly’ means their behaviour could not be accepted.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, you are belabouring your explanation. I allowed you to give a preface.

Evg. Shabula: I want the hon. Minister to understand.

Mr Speaker: No. You do not have to lecture him. Ask him a question.

Evg. Shabula: Mr Speaker, was it in order for the hon. Minister and his people to use live ammunition on people who were not armed, thereby killing a person and injuring others? Further, is there any record to show whether any police officer was killed or injured?

Mr Kampyongo: Sir, in my response, I said that the riots were on 1^st and 11^th March, 2019, and I appeal to the hon. Member, who is also a senior clergyman, to sensitise our people. They have to understand that where there is a breakdown of order, it does not only take the use of firearms for people to lose lives. However, the riots could have been avoided if people had been sensitised properly. I do not know where the notion where anyone who is successful in a community is suspected of practicing witchcraft has come from. People who are successful are the first to be suspected of practicing witchcraft by those who are lazy. It is the same thing for the elderly people, and it is now a curse for someone to grow old, just as it is a problem for someone to be successful be it in business or in a career. So, as community leaders and representatives of the people, we have a responsibility to sensitise our people that they should not tie hard work to suspicions, which are retrogressive and primitive. The riots were on two occasions, and the people used all sorts of weapons such as stones and property was destroyed. I want to let the hon. Member know that the conversion of the Zambia Police Force to the Zambia Police Service does not entail that they should not utilise the equipment that they are gazetted to use, including firearms. So, the circumstances determine what measures the police take –

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was responding to a follow up question from the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi, and was explaining the circumstances under which our officers can utilise the gazetted equipment given to them.

Sir, I was saying that what determines the measure the police take when dealing with riotous behaviour, including the use of firearms, are the circumstances. Riotous behaviour can be in different forms and they follow the laid down procedures including proclamation, where they first of all appeal to the rioters to stop the activities and to disperse. The fact that it is a police service does not mean that the police cannot use gazetted equipment including firearms or live ammunition. The situation in Itezhi-Tezhi was compelling and the police had to do what they did in order to protect their lives. The hon. Member might not have been there, but the rioters were wielding different objects, which objects could have been harmful and have even caused death. So, the police reacted in the manner they did within the provisions of their procedures.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nanjuwa: Mr Speaker, of the thirty-seven people who were arrested, how many of them were taken to court and tried?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, of course, screening was done. I may not know the exact number of the people who are still appearing in court but I can make that information available to the House and the hon. Member.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, not long ago, the Zambia Police Service was ranked among the ten worst police services in the whole world. Extra judicial killings or extra judicial executions, as they may be known, are an act by Government authorities to take someone’s life without the sanction of a due legal process. Is there anywhere in the law where extra judicial killings are permitted? They have become very prominent under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and President Edgar Lungu, more than they were in the pre-colonial era and after independence.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, it is only where there is peace where people can have the privilege to even speak in the manner the hon. Member has spoken. Everywhere in the world, the police are mandated to use equipment, including firearms. I must say that our police officers are disciplined enough and we see them moving with their firearms, but the situation has not been as the hon. Member has portrayed it. I would like to argue that Zambia is ranked among the few peaceful countries on the continent of Africa, and third in Sub-Saharan Africa, and that achievement does not come by accident.

Sir, if our colleagues are looking forward to forming a Government, they should not be mistaken and think that they will do it any other way because any Government is anchored on law enforcement. There is no such a thing as extra judicial killings, and I would want the hon. Member to show this House statistics of what he is alleging. However, I stand here firmly to say that police officers perform their duties professionally. Where the situation demands that they use firearms, it is usually justifiable because those are not toys. They are mandated to use them and that is the practice world over.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Mr Speaker, Itezhi-Tezhi is like many other constituencies in this country, and riots are becoming a habit. Yesterday, there was a riot in Manyinga and some people lost their lives. Could the hon. Minister give a time frame as to when the rubber bullets will be distributed to the various districts in this country.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I acknowledge that this morning, I was discussing with the hon. Member for Manyinga about the events in Manyinga. It is regrettable that people resort to meting out justice on anyone they suspect to be engaging in criminal activities, as the situation in Manyinga was, where two citizens were caught up in a situation. The two were from Chingola and that led to instant justice to be meted out on them. However, I appeal to everyone, including hon. Members to discourage people from taking the law in their own hands because most of the victims are innocent. So, riotous behaviour is not the way to go. When there are riots and a breakdown of law and order, people should expect collateral damage as police officers try to quell the situation. The Zambia Police Service will soon be distributing the assorted equipment which has been procured, but that will not exempt the use of firearms because they are gazetted equipment as well. So, when lives are threatened, the Zambia Police Service will have to use firearms just like any other police service in the world.

I thank you, Sir.

Evg. Shabula: Mr Speaker, I did not hear the hon. Minister explain to us whether before the police used live ammunition on the rioters, they used another procedure such as the use of teargas, rubber bullets or water cannons. The hon. Minister has not given us that information, but is just talking about bullets. I would like to know the procedure that the police used before they used live ammunition on the rioters?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, for clarity’s sake, the police utilised tear smoke canisters to try and disperse the crowd and they did that more than once. I said that the police used live ammunition to disperse the rioters as the last option, and this was after they had followed all the procedures. The police fired warning shots as per the requirement to try and discourage people from rioting and to make them understand that a gun kills, but they could not heed to that. So, what followed is what happened and, fortunately, the situation was brought under control.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister 100 per cent convinced that the only time when the police use guns with live ammunition is when the situation is out of control such as when life is threatened and after having used all other procedures such as teargas? Is the hon. Minister convinced in his heart that that is exactly what happens and not that sometimes the police are overzealous such that they opt to start shooting? As the hon. Minister answers, he should take into consideration what happened in Sesheke during the by-election where even when the situation was unprovoked without any danger or threats, the police right away started using guns. Is he convinced in his heart that his statement is correct?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the follow up question by Hon. Musokotwane. I am convinced because if it was not for the professional conduct of the police, they would not have dealt with so many riotous activities across the country, and we can look at the statistics of how many casualties have been recorded when they have used firearms. So, I am convinced that the police have been professional and they try as much as they can to contain situations without being excessive in terms of the measures they take, including the use of firearms.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, I am very worried about the way the hon. Minister is responding to questions being asked by the hon. Members of Parliament. It is like he is now encouraging police officers to start killing Zambians willingly, and, we, the people of Zambia, are not interested in that. His police officers –

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, this is time for questions.

Mr Michelo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that his police officers are behaving professionally. So, according to him as a Patriotic Front (PF) Minister, is the throwing of teargas at a peaceful young lady at the University of Zambia (UNZA) professional?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I do not have to start with civics and lecture the hon. Member for Bweengwa that I am a Minister elected under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. So, as I stand here, I am responsible for the state affairs, including his constituency and he should be mindful of that. I want the hon. Member to understand that the peace he enjoys for him to go to Bweengwa and back does not come by accident. There are isolated incidents and he must know that the matter he is referring to was before an inquest and that is because, as the Government, we are committed to ensure that our officers conduct themselves professionally. When some issues are raised, we make sure that thorough processes are followed to see if someone could have veered off from what they are supposed to do. So, let us follow these events properly so that we are not misguided. The hon. Member referred to an issue that was thoroughly investigated and he could have gone to make presentations if he had anything he wanted to share. So, my responses to the hon. Members of Parliament, including himself, are factual and not short of facts.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, with all the issues raised about the Zambia Police Service, are there moments when the officers are called to workshops or an event to do with updating them on great concerns to ensure that they are in line with the requirements of the law?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, yes, indeed, just like any other profession, capacity building is a continuous process. We have introduced in-service training programmes so that officers are refreshed from time to time in order to make them understand what their call of duty demands and to respond to changing scenarios and situations. Apart from that, we also have oversight institutions such as the Police Public Complaints Authority that looks into the work of the men and women in uniform, and where people go and render their complaints. In many cases, I know that the hon. Member sitting in front of him has used that channel before and his matters were adjudicated upon and he was given responses. So, those are the measures that are in place. We should know that behind the uniforms, there are human beings who might be prone to error and we must ensure that we keep them in check.

I thank you, Sir.

COMMUNICATION TOWERS CONSTRUCTION IN KANCHIBIYA CONSTITUENCY

112. Dr Malama asked the Minister of Transport and Communication:

when the construction of communication towers in the following chiefdoms in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency will commence:

Zampalm in Kopa;
Nchubula in Kopa;
Musumba in Kopa;
Chendapanshi in Mpepo;
Chikakala in Mpepo;
Kawama in Luchembe;
Washeni in Luchembe;
Mulonga in Luchembe;
Kalulu in Kabinga;
Chinkobo in Kabinga;
Munkunta in Kabinga;
Kapilya in Chiundaponde;
Muwele in Chiundaponde; and
Mwendachabe in Chundaponde

b. what has caused the delay in commencing the project.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, under the Universal Access Phase II Project, the Government of the Republic of Zambia plans to construct six communication towers and to upgrade four towers in Kanchibiya Constituency. The six sites earmarked for construction are as follows:

Kabinga Primary School in Mpepo Chiefdom;
Kantimba Primary School in Kabinga Chiefdom;
Kawama Primary School;
Kopa, Lubaleshi Ward in Luchembe Chiefdom;
Mapoma in Kopa Chiefdom; and
Kopa, Munikashi Ward in Kopa chiefdom.

Sir, the existing towers earmarked for upgrade are:

Mpepo in Mpepo Chiefdom;
Tazara in Mpepo Chiefdom;
Kasongo in Mpepo Chiefdom; and
Chalabesa in Luchembe Chiefdom.

Mr Speaker, the project is on schedule. The four towers planned for construction, namely; Kopa, which is in Lubaleshi Ward in Luchembe Chiefdom, Mapoma in Munikashi Ward in Kopa Chiefdom, Kantimba Primary School in Lulingila Ward in Kabinga Chiefdom and Kopa in Munikashi Ward, are completed and on air. The four towers earmarked for upgrade are all on air and the other two are in progress.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, my people have a saying about those people who do not appreciate, and on behalf of them, I really want to appreciate the good job by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. However, is the ministry intending to undertake Phase III of this project for the other areas that are under-perfused, so that the people’s appreciation is indeed up to the hilt, unlike an opposition party that is yet to learn how to appreciate?

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, indeed, it is important to appreciate when it is necessary. I want to say that we are currently undertaking Phase II of the project, under which we planned to construct 1,009 towers. The completion of this project is earmarked for this year. However, there is a conversation about implementing Phase III because, obviously, there is a lot of demand from numerous hon. Members for areas which were not planned for under Phase II, and this is a very preliminary conversation. I hope the project can gain support, as I have seen from all hon. Members, and this must extend to all other important stakeholders who can make it possible. Like I said, there is a conversation, but it is not yet in a plan form.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, what measures will the hon. Minister put in place to ensure that the towers that are completed are online without undue delay, like the case is in Chama South, where seven towers were completed a year ago, but are not online? What measures will the hon. Minister put in place to ensure that the towers that will be constructed for the people of Kanchibiya are online within the shortest possible time?

Mr Kafwaya: Sir, the measure we are putting in place is of ensuring that we constantly converse with the contractor so he can procure active equipment that is required to complete the entire process of installing the communication towers. As for the towers that are not yet live, they are not live because active equipment has not yet been installed on the towers. So, as soon as the contractor procures the equipment, it will be placed on the towers and we will then switch them on.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Mr Speaker, the bigger picture is the National Towering Programme. Is it possible for the hon. Minister to share the schedule of the programme of work with hon. Members, so that we know how many towers, out of the 1,009 towers that he mentioned, will be constructed in our constituencies under Phase II?

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, that information was already shared and the schedule has not changed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukumbuta: Mr Speaker, is there a programme that the ministry has put in place to sensitise communities about the towers that will be put? There can be too much vandalism in rural areas, and we are promoting Electronic Governance (e-Governance) through the Smart Zambia Institute. Is there any sensitisation being done regarding the benefits of the communication towers throughout the country?

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, indeed, it is very important to communicate to our people throughout the country about the importance of safeguarding their assets because those assets have been installed to easy their lives. As a matter of fact, the Government in general has structures throughout the country. Hon. Members of Parliament also have structures that must be used to ensure that they disseminate information that impacts on our people correctly. Obviously, the communication towers are well-fenced so it would be surprising for me to hear that our people in the villages, who are the intended beneficiaries, are vandalising the fences even before they get to the actual passive equipment. Clearly, let us seize this moment to sensitise our people not only about telecommunication towers but all assets that belong to us as Zambians.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr S. Banda (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that they are implementing the second phase of the project. Is it possible for him to provide a comprehensive implementation schedule so that we know as to where and when the communication towers will be set up?

Mr Speaker: A few minutes ago, the hon. Minister stated that he circulated the schedule and that the information has not changed.

Hon. Minister, do you want to repeat yourself?

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, I think I cannot put it better than you have put it. The schedule was circulated and it has remained the same.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr A. C. Mumba: Mr Speaker, my question is centred on service delivery. We know very well that we are going digital. Most of the Government programmes that are being rolled out including the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) are skewed towards digital processes. If seven communication towers have not been connected for over a year, would the hon. Minister say his ministry is being consistent with supplying digital services to the people and that this huge investment is on course?

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, the project covers 1,009 communication towers. So, if we look at one question relative to the whole project, we will see that it is so insignificant. The details that may come out of one question from one parliamentary constituency, if taken in direct relation to the entire project, may mislead us. However, we are earmarked to construct six communication towers in Kanchibiya, and not seven, and four have been constructed and are on air. So, it is not that seven towers are not on air. However, the questions being asked by various hon. Members should be contextualised to the entire project, which covers 1,009 communication towers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, why is the contractor delaying to procure the active equipment so that the communication towers that are not online are brought on board?

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, we are within the contract period, and some communication towers have not yet been constructed. So, I would not say that the project has delayed because we are still within the contract period. It is my undertaking that we will finish the project within the specified time. All the active equipment will be placed and all communication towers will be live within the contract period.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, after Phases I and II, will the ministry conduct an audit to see the areas that are still poorly serviced so that our people can be connected? In 2021, a certain political party ...

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, you have already asked your question.

Dr Malama: ... will not have what to point at.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, I thoroughly appreciate the follow up question from my hon. Colleague. The Ministry of Transport and Communication is expected to undertake a full assessment of the entire country after completing Phase II so that, if and when Phase III comes in place, we can allocate communication towers to areas that are underserved in order to cover 100 per cent of the country.

I thank you, Sir.

PUBLIC SERVICE RETIREES’ MONTHLY PENSION

113. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo) asked the Minister of Finance:

what the average monthly pension paid to Public Service retirees was as of July 2019;
whether there are any retirees whose monthly pension is below the country’s minimum wage requirement; and
if so, whether the Government has any plans to increase the payments to the minimum wage rate.

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, the average monthly pension paid to Public Service retirees as of July 2019 was K780 to pensioners and K650 to beneficiaries. Pension payments to members are determined by a formula which is based on the earnings, contributions and years of service, and more importantly, the final salary at the point of exit and the investment retains of the pension scheme itself.

Sir, the total number of pensioners and beneficiaries as at July 2019 stood at 59,057. Out of this, only 1 per cent got above the country’s minimum wage of K3,151.67 for the Public Service categories.

Mr Speaker, as of July 2019, 82.4 per cent of the retirees and beneficiaries were getting a monthly pension of equal to or less than K1,000. Those in the highest band of 37.5 per cent were getting K400 to K450 per month.

Sir, as I stated earlier, payments are based on a defined formula. This notwithstanding, the pension funds consistently adjust monthly pension payments annually based on inflation. The Public Sector Pension Fund Act does not align itself with the minimum wage but rather with inflation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate answer to this very important question that concerns the pensioners. The hon. Minister said that some retirees get K750 to K780 per month, while the majority get K400 to K450. According to the hon. Minister, the pension funds do not use the minimum wage as a measure of how much a pensioner should get but they use inflation instead. If the hon. Minister was in the shoes of the retirees and received K400 to K450 per month, would he live on that amount that they get per month? A survey that was done by the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JCTR) pegs the monthly cost of living for a family of five members at K7,000. Would the hon. Minister live through the month with the amount that the pensioners are given? I am putting this question across to the Government so that they can see the suffering of the pensioners. Would he buy mealie meal and relish with that amount and survive throughout the month?

Mr Speaker: I have a problem with requesting the hon. Minister to respond to that. I think you have made your point. In your question, you indicated that the cost of the basic needs basket is K7,000, and the figures you referred to are far below K7,000. So, what information do you now want to get from the hon. Minister?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, let me elaborate. As I said, according to a survey, the current cost of living is almost K7000, and pensioners get K450 per month. What measures is the hon. Minister putting in place to ensure that that figure is moved from K450 to a more realistic figure that will reflect the current cost of living in view of the figure I have mentioned?

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, I have a lot of sympathy for the concern expressed by the hon. Member, but the pension fund operates based on certain rules and pays in accordance with its capacity to pay. I am not saying that the amount that is being paid is enough. However, the reality is that the Public Sector Pension Fund has an actuarial deficit of K46.2 billion, which entails that the scheme is not financially sustainable and requires a reform to address the low monthly pension that the pensioners are currently receiving. Short of that means that the Government will have to continue paying pensioners from the Treasury to meet that difference, which is obviously completely unattainable. So, the only remedy is for us to reform and address the challenges of the pension fund so that it becomes capable of meeting its obligation to its pensioners.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am aware that most pension schemes in Zambia and in particular, the Public Service ones have had no actuarial reports for quite some time, hence the low annuities that are being paid to the pensioners. When is the Government going to ensure that actuarial reports are done pertaining to the operations of those pension schemes?

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, the information we have is that the actuarial reports for the pension funds are available and that most of them actually have deficits. In fact, it is correct to say that the pension fund system is in a bit of a problem in terms of its capacity to meet its obligations. However, we can work with the Pensions and Insurance Authority to ensure that the pension funds that have not yet prepared the actuarial reports engage actuaries to carry out the work so that we can have comprehensive information as to what the state of the pension funds is in this country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, the Public Service Pension Fund is under the jurisdiction of the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), under the Ministry of Labour and Social Security. Clearly, from the figures that the hon. Minister has told the nation, NAPSA pays a better minimum pension than the Public Service Pension Fund. In the same economy and the same Government, some workers contribute to the Public Service Pension Fund while others contribute to NAPSA, and I obviously expect a problem within the sector. How much effort is the hon. Minister putting to ensure that he and the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security quickly sort out the problem in the pension sector?

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, one of the problems that the Ministry of Finance intends to tackle in the course of this year is the pension fund problem. We realise that if we do not address the pension fund system, it is going to degenerate into a crisis. Already as it is, the deficit that the Government is required to meet in order to bring the pension fund to a level of sustainability is beyond its capacity to pay. Therefore, we need to address the challenge immediately and implement reform measures that will help to get the pension fund system back to sustainability.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister, there is nothing the Government can do about the current situation and that pensioners simply have to make do with the K400 that they receive every month. However, he stated that the only thing that it can do is to institute a reform of the pension fund sector. Is this just a plan or has he started the reformation of the sector? Further, when does he expect the reform to be completed so that the next generation of pensioners is not caught up in the same situation?

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, I want to remove any impression that I am saying that K400 is enough; I am not saying anything near that. All I am saying is that the pension fund system is in such a state that it does not have the capacity to pay more than it is able to pay. However, if the pension funds system had the capacity, its payment ability would have been reflected in inflation. In other words, it is actually index to inflation, but it is not able to do that. The only alternative would be that people who retire be kept on the civil service salary until they die. However, will that be viable? Of course, it is not viable, meaning that the only way we can deal with the matter is to reform the pension system itself and get to the point where the pension funds begin to operate properly. Like I said, it is an issue that we have insight with the view to review it and see how we can change the way it is operating. As to when exactly we will do it, I cannot give the hon. Member the information right now because I do not want to mislead him into believing that I will do it next week or after next week. However, it is definitely one of the issues that we need to look at and tackle because if we do not, it could degenerate into a crisis.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, actuarial reports are an integral part of the pension system. I heard the answer that the hon. Minister gave Hon. Mwiimbu regarding this subject. Is there a pool of actuarial scientists who can give a true reflection of how the pension system is working in this country? If so, what has been the real problem as to why reports are not being generated?

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Speaker, I did not say that the reports are not being generated. I said that we have a few reports that indicate that the pension funds that have been looked at are basically insolvent, and a good example is the Public Sector Pension Fund, and that is where the problem is. It is from this realisation that the urgency to begin the process of reforming the system comes from. So, in essence, we are responding to this challenge, which has been revealed by the actuarial reports that are currently available, and we will work on getting all the other large pension funds in the country, both privately and publicly owned, to prepare and make available their actuarial reports, so that proper decisions can be made to protect the earnings of those who retire. Hon. Lufuma’s concern is that those who retire live like paupers because the pension funds are not able to sustain them. So, it is from the actuarial reports that we have recognised the need for us to quickly do something, in terms of reforming the system.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

RITUAL RELATED KILLINGS

114. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) how many ritual related killings were recorded, countrywide, from January 2017 to December 2018;

(b) how many arrests were effected in relation to the cases;

(c) how many convictions were secured following the arrests; and

(d) what the nationalities of the perpetrators of the cases are.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, two ritual related killings were recorded from January 2017 to December 2018.

Sir, one arrest was made in relation to the ritual related killings.

Mr Speaker, no conviction has been secured yet as the matter is still pending in the courts of law.

Sir, the suspected ritual killer who was arrested is a Zambian national.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister was recently being briefed about the ritual killings on the Copperbelt, there was reference to the frustration that some suspects are turning into cats. Has this frustrated the police or do they also have some extra power to deal with such situations?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister has the liberty. There was a point of order earlier on attached to the same subject, and he is scheduled to issue his statement on Tuesday.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, yes, indeed, I will issue a ministerial statement on the matter. However, I want to use this opportunity to make it clear that the incidents related to ritual killings that the hon. Member referred to occurred in Lusaka. The House might recall that a suspect was arrested after he was found cooking suspected parts of a human body and he has been appearing in court. The two cases were similar in nature and the investigations that were carried out revealed that the suspect could have been behind the two killings that occurred at that point.

Sir, with regard to the hon. Member for Katombola’s question, we have not recently recorded any case of ritual killings on the Copperbelt, North-Western or Lusaka provinces. What we have had are incidents where a few households were attacked in Chingola. Among those three families that were attacked, at one household, the husband or head of that family was hacked, his wife was hacked and gang raped, and we recorded the death of a young boy, and that is what sparked the riots that we saw on the Copperbelt. What followed were issues of spraying of people’s houses during the night, which I will talk about in detail later. However, I have to place it on record that no case of ritual killings has been recorded. There is this narrative that people are creating that there are ritual killings and they are meting out instant justice on suspects, but there has been no ritual killing at all.

Mr Speaker, as for the suspects turning into cats, there is no such a thing. I want to make it clear that that story was generated when the Commissioner of Police for the Copperbelt Province was briefing me and the Deputy Inspector General of Police on the situation. What she told us is that because of people being sensitive, one household called the police after they suspected that there was someone on top of the roof of the house, and when people are scared, any movement they hear raises suspicion that there is someone around. So, what the commissioner said was that when they checked the ceiling where those people claimed there was someone hiding, it was discovered that it was a cat. It is so shocking that people in this country have become so superstitious to a point where even well informed hon. Members of Parliament can believe in dark science. We need to do better because we are Christians. So, if we claim to be Christians, we can certainly do better, and there is no such a thing as the suspects turning into a cat.

Sir, when our police officers are carrying out their operations, they are not superstitious. We have not had any suspect out of those we have been arrested turn into any animal or cat. Some individuals have been rounded up and have been helpful to the investigations. One suspect was gunned down while running and he was not an animal, but a human being. So, we do not believe in such things, and my appeal to especially my hon. Colleagues is that we should desist from this primitive way of analysing issues. We can do better and inform our nation properly other than thrive on falsehoods and beliefs that are neither here nor there.

I thank you Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that the ritual killers were in Chingola and are now in Lusaka. Is he aware that some people spend most of the time in the night outside trying to protect themselves? Further, is there enough manpower to help those people?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, this is the challenge, and I was just belabouring here in this august House that there has been no case of ritual killings. Hon. Hamusonde should not mislead the people. As leaders of the people, we have a responsibility to inform them accordingly. There are no ritual killers that have moved from the Copperbelt to Lusaka because no one has been killed. Would he show me a body if I asked him to show me where he saw one? Maybe, let me explain for the purpose of making the hon. Member understand that a ritual killing entails that a human being has been killed with certain parts extracted from the body for suspected ritual use, and we have not had those killings recorded anywhere. So, even when people say they suspect there are ritual killings, where are the ritual killings? We should not participate in circulating falsehoods. Let us be responsible enough as leaders so that our people can be calmed down. The issue that has attracted public attention is that of gas spraying, which the police are dealing with adequately. Even as we sit here, a number of arrests have been made and the police are making headways in zeroing in on the culprits who are involved in those activities. So, there are no ritual killings apart from what I have stated in response to Hon. Hamusonde’s question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has castigated Zambians pertaining to the so-called beliefs in mythical powers. Is the hon. Minister not aware that it is the Commissioner of Police, Ms Charity Katanga, who informed the nation on Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) television when she was addressing him that the police found a cat and that as it was running, it was reducing in size, such that the police were finding it difficult to kill it. So, it is not the Zambians, but the police themselves who said that. Is the hon. Minister in a position to tell this House and the nation that the Commissioner of Police misled the nation?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the learned counsel can do better.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, it is me and the Deputy Inspector-General of Police who were being briefed, and what I have explained is what the briefing was all about. I said that when people are incensed and hear any movements, they suspect anything. At no point did the Commissioner of Police say that the police found a cat turning into a human being. She did not say that. So, let us learn to be honest and sincere because hon. –

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, if you have made your point, you can move on.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, there is no such a thing, and the hon. Member has been engaging me to try and deal with the people who are being attacked in his constituency because of superstition. If we do not take a step as leaders – innocent people’s lives are at risk. I said that when the police are executing their duties, they do not believe in dark science or whatever it is. So, it is not correct to say that the Commissioner of Police said what the hon. Member said.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: I will take the last two questions from the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central and the hon. Member for Namwala.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am very confused. So, for avoidance of doubt of hypnosis, especially that we all watched on television when the Commissioner of Police was briefing the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, is he kind enough to repeat, in as far as his memory serves him, what Ms Charity Katanga said, and she even saluted to him when she was talking about a cat diminishing in size. Is the hon. Minister able to give us a report, not verbatim, but in as far as his memory serves him on what he was briefed so that we can now tell whether we were hypnotised or he was hypnotised?

Mr Speaker: The difficult I have with this line of debate is that the hon. Minister has been repeating himself, and I have been following this issue closely. He is reiterating. In fact, he said what the Commissioner of Police said three times; I am counting. So, what else do you want him to say?

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I am equally confused because what the hon. Minister is telling us and what the Commissioner of Police said are two different things. However, since some of us have gadgets, can I play what the commissioner said right now and right here, so that we see that the hon. Minister is actually misleading the nation?

Mr Speaker, with your permission, I can play it here.

Mr Speaker: Permission not granted.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Sir, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1806 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 13^th February, 2020.

____________

WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTIONS

DAMAGED INFRASTRUCTURE REHABILITATION IN MSANZALA CONSTITUENCY

96. Mr Daka (Msanzala) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development when the rehabilitation of the following damaged infrastructure in Msanzala Parliamentary Constituency will commence:

Chipungu/Mbulamala Bridge across Msanzala River;
Kalumba Bridge near Wasonkho Village;
Manda /Vuvye Bridge along the Nyamphande/Mwape Road;
Mkonda/Bridge across Mkonda River along Msolo Road;
Onzi Bridge along Nyamphande Road;
Nsenya Bridge along Nsenya/Kakwiya Road; and
The dam embankment along Nsenya River.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation works on Chipungu/Mbulamala Bridge across Msanzala River will be undertaken when funds are made available.

Sir, the rehabilitation works on Kalumba Bridge near Wasonkho Village will be undertaken once funds for the works are secured. The works on Manda/Vuvye Bridge along Nyamphande/Mwape Road will be undertaken in the second quarter of 2020, once the water levels on the stream go down.

Mr Speaker, rehabilitation works on Mkonda Bridge across Mkonda River will be undertaken once funds for the works have been secured. Works on Onzi Bridge along Nyamphande Road were undertaken in 2017 and the bridge is currently in a fair condition. The rehabilitation works on Nsenya Bridge along Nsenya/Kakwiya Road will be undertaken once funds for the works have been secured. The rehabilitation works on the dam embankment along Nsenya River will be undertaken once funds for the works are also secured.

I thank you, Sir.

CURBING POLITICAL VIOLENCE

98. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Home Affairs what measures are being taken to curb political violence, especially violence associated with elections.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the Zambia Police Service has been engaging all political parties to adhere to the provisions of the Public Order Act to avoid violence, especially during political campaigns. The Zambia Police Service, in line with the provisions of the Public Order Act, co-ordinates the scheduling of political campaigns in any election to ensure that different political parties carry out their campaigns at different times in order to avoid clashes between political parties.

Sir, where the Zambia Police Service has been notified of an intention to hold a public rally or meeting by any political party, enough police officers are always deployed to maintain law and order at such public rallies and meetings.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

STREET LIGHTING PROJECT IN LUWINGU DISTRICT

102. Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Local Government:

why the street lighting project in Luwingu District has stalled;
when the project will resume;
what the total cost of the project is;
what the time frame for the completion of the project is; and
who the contractor is.

The Minister of Local Government (Dr Banda): Mr Speaker, the project for street lighting in Luwingu District has stalled due to none availability of funds to finish the remaining works.

Sir, the project will resume once funds are made available.

Mr Speaker, the initial project cost was K250,000. However, the cost will be revised since some installations have been vandalised.

Sir, the time frame for the completion of the project will be known once the works resume.

Mr Speaker, there is no contractor who was engaged. The council has been using the force account approach, which is using its own labour force.

I thank you, Sir.

COMMUNICATION TOWER CONSTRUCTION IN SESHEKE CONSTITUENCY

103. Mr Kangombe (Sesheke) asked the Minister of Transport and Communication:

whether the Government has any plans to construct communication towers at the following schools in Sesheke Parliamentary Constituency:

Imusho Primary;

Mazaba Primary;

Luchwe Primary; and

Luampungu Basic;

if so, when the plans will be implemented;

b. what the total cost of the project is; and

c. if there are no such plans, why.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, the Government planned for the construction of eight communication towers under the Universal Access Towers Phase II in the following areas in Sesheke District;

Imusho Primary School in Imusho Ward;

Mazaba primary School in Lusu Ward;

Luampungu Primary School in Luampungu Ward;

Kachola in Luampungu Ward;

Ngweze Primary School in Imusho Ward;

Chivula Primary School in Mulimambango Ward;

Sesheke Town in Milimambango Ward; and

Kalobolelwa in Kalobolelwa Ward.

Sir, the construction of communication towers in the mentioned wards in Sesheke is in progress.

Mr Speaker, the total cost of the project for the whole country is US$280,764,601.55.

Sir, the construction of communication towers in the sites that were planned for is ongoing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MKUSHI/LUANO/KABWE ROAD TARRING PROJECT

104. Ms Mwape asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

when the tarring of the Mkushi/Luano/Kabwe Road under the Link Zambia 8,000 Kilometre Road Project will commence;
what the cause of delay in commencing the project is; and
who the contractor of the project is.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the Mkushi/Luano/Kabwe Road is earmarked for upgrading to bituminous standard using the Contractor Facilitated Initiative (CFI) mode of financing and works are scheduled to commence once financial closure has been reached.

Sir, the project has delayed commencing owing to the protracted procedures required to reach financial closure.

Mr Speaker, the contractor awarded the works is Messrs CMC di Ravenna.

I thank you, Sir.

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