Wednesday, 18^th March, 2020

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

                             PRAYER                            

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MOTION

 

TAKE MEASURES TO ENHANCE YOUTH PRODUCTIVITY

 

Mr Kaziya (Matero): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House urges the Government to take measures to enhance youth productivity.

 

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Your Motion is not seconded.

 

Mr Kaziya: Hon. Kakubo is supposed to second the Motion.

 

Mr Speaker: I am aware.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: The consequence is that the Motion lapses.

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BILL

 

SECOND READING

 

CONSTITUTION OF ZAMBIA (Amendment) BILL, 2019

 

Mr Mawere (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you most sincerely for allowing the voice of Chipata Central Constituency to also contribute to the very important debate on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill –

 

Mr Sichone: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Sichone: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a very serious point of order. Is this House in order to continue sitting when we watched the hon. Minister of Health address the nation today over this very serious situation of the coronavirus, which has hit the globe? Are we in order to continue sitting amidst this scare and the possibility that the virus can easily spread amongst your hon. Members?

 

Sir, in the Statutory Instrument (SI), the hon. Minister mentioned that any gathering of more than fifty people increases the chances of the virus being passed on.

Sir, I need your urgent and serious ruling.

 

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that I am fully aware of the situation we are in and I am taking appropriate and immediate steps to ensure that we appropriately respond to the situation. In a matter of hours, the steps and measures that I am taking will become self-evident.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker –

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to raise a very serious point of order.

 

Sir, there has been a precedence in this House that when a matter under discussion is in a court of law, it becomes sub judice to continue deliberating that matter in the House. I am aware of the precedence that I am referring to. For ease of reference, assisted by the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan at that time, I moved a Motion to impeach the His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, a Motion which was admitted for deliberation.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Nkombo: During the course of the consideration of when to bring this Motion on the Table for debate, some citizens decided to approach the court. As the mover of the Motion, I was informed by your office that the matter I brought before the House had become a subject in the courts of law, it was difficult for the Assembly to proceed because the two could not run side by side. One process required to be completed before this House admitted the Motion of Impeachment of the President for deliberation.

 

Mr Speaker, I am aware that today, 18^th March, 2020, your office has been served court documents which I have in my hands, and I will lay them on the Table when I finish. The documents are duly stamped as received by the Office of the Clerk.

 

Sir, this is in the matter of the following parties: Mr Dipak Patel, citizen, as a petitioner, and the Minister of Finance who is sitting here as the first respondent, and the Attorney General as the second respondent.

 

Sir, in this matter that is before the Constitutional Court of Zambia, has a petition. For ease of reference, I will go ahead and deal with the first copy of this matter, but it will be subject for you, Sir, to go through and hopefully decide whether to halt the proceedings of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10, 2019, which is on the Order Paper and on the Floor of the House right now, as you have done before in the case where I intended to move a motion to impeach the Republican President,  Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu.

 

Dr Malama: Question!

 

Mr Nkombo: For ease of reference, I quote:

 

“In the Constitutional Court of Zambia, on 18^th March, 2020, holden at Lusaka Constitutional Jurisdiction, in the matter of Part 1, Article 2 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act. No. 2 of 2016. In the matter of Article 63(2) (d) of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No.2 of 2016 ...”

 

Sir, this is the most relevant Article in this particular matter because it deals with the authority of the hon. Minister of Finance or the Executive to borrow without the due permission from this House, as the Constitution says. 

 

“In the matter of Part 16 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, in the matter of Article 177(5) of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, In the matter of the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act Chapter 366 of the Laws of Zambia, In the matter of public borrowing by the Government of the Republic of Zambia.”

 

Mr Speaker, I have already mentioned the petitioners and the respondent but for me to conclude, I will read just a part of the issues that are in the petition. At No. 5, it says;

 

“The petitioner shall say that as a Zambian citizen and a taxpayer, he is affected directly by any debt that the first and second respondents authorise and sign on behalf of the Government of the Republic of Zambia, and as such, he has requisite standing to bring this claim before the court. The petitioner shall also say that Article 2 under Part I of the Constitution of Zambia Amendment Act. No. 2 of 2016 recognises the right and the duty of every person to defend the Constitution and resist or prevent the overthrow, suspension or illegal abrogation of the Constitution of Zambia.’’

 

Sir, I have read this document in part. Would the House be in order to continue dealing with the issue of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, which contains this particular article that I have quoted in this document from court? It is my prayer that in your ruling, after you have studied the matter, you will halt the proceedings of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 like you did before on another matter, until this matter is disposed of in the court of law. 

 

Prof. Luo: Insoni ebuntu.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, for completeness sake, do you have the letter which you said I wrote to you? In your point of order, you referred to a letter which I wrote to you.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I was communicated to by the Office of the Clerk, not yourself, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Yes, that very letter.

 

Mr Nkombo: I was informed that the matter was in court, and therefore, we could not proceed. That letter is in my office.

 

Mr Speaker: In due course, supply it.

 

Mr Nkombo laid his documents on the Table.

 

Mr Speaker: Very well, I must state from the outset that I have not had a look at the process that has just been referred to me. 

 

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: I do not know at what point it was served this morning, but I can confirm that for most of the morning, I was presiding over the Standing Orders Committee and we completed our business very late this afternoon.

 

I am also mindful that the point of order that has been raised touches on the business that we are just about to commence. So, in order for me to exercise my judgment properly, I want to briefly look at the process in question. I will, therefore, stand down the proceedings. When I return, at least, I would have had an idea of what this process is all about, so that I can finally take a position. That is my ruling. Business will be adjourned briefly.

 

Business was suspended from 1448 hours until 1831 hours. 

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

RULINGS BY MR SPEAKER

 

POINT OF ORDER BY MR. G. G. NKOMBO, MP, ON THE HOUSE CONSIDERING A MATTER THAT IS BEFORE THE COURTS OF LAW

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, when business was suspended, the House was considering the Second Reading Stage of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, and the hon. Member for Chipata Central was debating.  While the hon. Member for Chipata Central was debating, the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central raised the following point of order:

 

“Sir, I rise on a very serious point of order and I wish to begin by thanking you most sincerely for the opportunity. Mr Speaker, there have been precedents to the effect that when a matter that is under discussion in this House is admitted in the courts of law, to continue deliberating on it is sub judice.

 

Sir, I am aware of the precedents that I am referring to. For ease of reference, this Member of Parliament here (referring to himself), assisted by the Member of Parliament for Roan, Dr Kambwili, moved a Motion to impeach the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency the President, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. The Motion was even admitted for deliberation. During the course of consideration of when to bring this Motion on the Table for debate, some citizens decided to approach the courts and I, as mover of the Motion, was informed by your office, Mr Speaker, that since the matter I brought before the House had now become a subject in the courts of law, it had become difficult for the Assembly to proceed because the two matters could not run side by side. One process required to have been completed before the House could admit the Motion of impeachment of the President for deliberation.

 

Mr Speaker, I am aware that your office, today, 18^th March, 2020, has been served with court documents, copies of which I have in my hands and I will lay them on the Table when I finish raising the point of order. They are duly stamped ‘Received by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly’. 

 

This is in the matter of the following parties: Mr Dipak Patel, citizen, as a petitioner, and the Minister of Finance, who is sitting here, as the first respondent and the Attorney-General as the second respondent.

 

In this matter, the Constitutional Court of Zambia has a petition and for ease of reference, I will go ahead and deal with the first copy of this particular matter which is subject for you, Sir, to go through and hopefully decide whether to halt the proceedings on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, which is on the Order Paper and on the Floor of the House right now, just as you did in the case where I intended to move a Motion to impeach the Republican President, Dr Edgar Chagwa Lungu.”

 

Sir, for ease of reference, my quote is:

 

‘In the Constitutional Court of Zambia’. This is dated 18^th March, 2020, holden at Lusaka Constitutional jurisdiction, in the matter of Part 1, Article 2 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act, No. 2 of 2016, in the matter of Article 63, which is the most relevant Article in this particular matter because it deals with the authority of the Minister of Finance or the Executive to borrow without due permission, as the Constitution says, from this House. It reads:

 

‘In the matter of Part 16 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016; in the matter of Article 177 (5) of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016; in the matter of the Loans and Guarantees Authorisation Act, Cap. 366 of the Laws of Zambia; in the matter of public borrowing by the Government of the Republic of Zambia.’

 

I have already mentioned the petitioners and the respondent.

 

However, for me to conclude, I will just take a part of the issues that are in the petition.

 

‘… Fifthly, the petitioner shall say that as a Zambian citizen and a taxpayer, he is affected directly by any debt that the first and second respondents authorise and sign on behalf of the Government of the Republic of Zambia and, as such, he has requisite standing to bring this claim before the court. The petitioner shall also say that Article 2 under Part 1 of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016 recognises the right and duty of every citizen or every person to defend the Constitution and resist or prevent the overthrow, suspension or illegal abrogation of the Constitution of Zambia …’ I read in part.

 

Mr Speaker, would this House, therefore, be in order to continue to deal forthwith with the issue of Bill 10 which contains this particular Article that I have quoted in this document from court? It is my prayer that in your ruling after you have studied the matter you will, like you have done before, halt the proceedings on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 until this matter is disposed of in the courts of law.

 

I was communicated to by the Office of the Clerk not yourself, Sir, that the matter is now in court and, therefore, you could not proceed.”

 

In my immediate response to the point of order, I stated that I had not had sight of the process that the hon. Member had referred to. I further stated that since the point of order hinged on the business that the House was just about to commence considering, I would stand down the proceedings for me to exercise my judgment properly.

 

 Hon. Members, I have since studied the point of order and wish to state that given the issues raised and other documents and precedents, both judicial and those founded on Parliamentary Practice and Procedure that I need to further study to enable me render a measured response, I require more time to ponder over the point of order.

 

POINTS OF ORDER BY MR M. SICHONE, MP, AND MR J. J. MWIIMBU, MP, ON THE HOUSE CONTINUING TO SIT DURING THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC

 

Mr Speaker: Further, before business was suspended, Hon. M. Sichone, MP, Minister for Muchinga Province, raised the following point of order: 

 

“Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise this serious point of order. Is this House in order to continue sitting when today we, in Government and the nation, watched the hon. Minister of Health addressing the nation over the coronavirus situation, which has hit the globe. Are we in order to continue sitting amidst this scare that is there and also the possibility that the virus can easily spread amongst hon. Members? In the Statutory instrument (SI), the hon. Minister of Health mentioned that for any gathering of more than fifty people, definitely, chances are high to catch the virus. Mr Speaker, I need your urgent and serious ruling.”

 

Similarly, yesterday, on Tuesday, 17^th March, 2020, Hon. J. J. Mwiimbu, MP, Leader of the Opposition and Member of Parliament for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency, raised the following point of order: 

 

“Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise a very serious point of order. Sir, I am aware that the hon. Minister of Health has issued Statutory Instruments (SI) No. 21 and No. 22 of 2020, pertaining to the outbreak of the coronavirus. He has further issued instructions that members of the public should ensure that they are 1 to 2 metres apart in their interactions.

 

Mr Speaker, as a citizen of the Republic of Zambia who does not want the coronavirus to spread, I would like to find out whether this House is in order to allow us to break the instructions, which have been given by the hon. Minister of Health, to be 1 to 2 metres apart in all interactions. In this House, we are only centimetres apart, thereby, breaking this particular instruction. What precedence are we setting for the public if we are in the forefront of breaking the laws pertaining to the coronavirus? Are we in order to continue sitting as hon. Members of Parliament contrary to the instructions from the hon. Minister of Health?”

 

In response to the point of order by Hon. J. J. Mwiimbu, I indicated the importance of the point of order and its implications, in light of the recent developments made to combat the coronavirus and reserved my ruling.

 

As regards the point of order by the hon. Minister for Muchinga Province, I indicated in my response that it would become apparent later in the day, what measures had been taken to address the issue of the coronavirus which was the subject of his point of order.

 

Hon. Members, following consultations with the relevant public offices concerning the coronavirus pandemic, a decision has been reached, in order to deal with the concerns raised in the points of order by Hon. J. J. Mwiimbu and the hon. Minister for Muchinga Province promptly. I, therefore, wish to call upon Her Honour the Vice-President.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President, just a minute for people to settle down.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

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MOTIONS

 

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDER 33 (1)

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, in accordance with Standing Order 33 (1) of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders, 2016, and in view of the coronavirus pandemic, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn sine die.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to debate in support of the Motion to suspend proceedings of the House in view of the great threat Zambia faces today over the Covid-19 outbreak.

 

Mr Speaker, this morning, Zambia reported two laboratory confirmed cases of Covid-19 in two members of a four member family. This involved a couple that travelled to France with their two children on a ten day holiday and returned to Zambia on Sunday.

 

Mr Speaker, having passed through the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA) and filled in the travel forms, our alert surveillance staff did notice that this couple and their two children passed through France which has recorded many cases of Covid-19. They were, therefore, quarantined in their own space. Twenty-four hours later, the alert surveillance staff did make a follow up to check on the four members of this family, and they did discover that the father or husband developed some symptoms that included a fever and flu, while the rest of the family remained asymptomatic.

 

Mr Speaker, we did admit these patients to our isolation centre and conducted tests and discovered that two of them tested positive. In line with the Statutory Instruments (Sis) that we have signed as the Ministry of Health in order to enforce or to escalate the response, we have, amongst other interventions, restricted public gatherings. Parliament, which is currently sitting, is one such public gathering. It is important that we lead by example by showing the public that we will not gather in a manner we discourage them in line with the SIs that we have issued as Government.

 

Mr Speaker, His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Lungu, pitches public health security as high priority. Therefore, he has escalated measures to protect the public. I, therefore, support the Motion to suspend business in the House so that we allow hon. Members of Parliament to retreat to their constituencies and provide leadership in enforcing SI No. 21 and SI No. 22 so that we protect the public from the scourge.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Members for the overwhelming support. However, I urge hon. Members to be cautious and to also engage their constituencies to ensure that we observe the rules prescribed by the Ministry of Health so that we keep healthy. This disease does not kill straightaway, but there are certain precautions that we should take to protect ourselves and our families.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn sine die.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

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The House adjourned accordingly at 1854 hours on Wednesday, 18^th March, 2020, sine die.

 

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WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION

 

MR DONALD CHIKWINKWI MURDER

 

244. Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

 

1. whether the Government is aware that a Mr Donald Chikwinkwi of Chaanza Village in Chikanta Chiefdom in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency was murdered by known people on 29th January, 2020;
2. if so, whether the suspects have been arrested and how many; and
3. what measures are being taken to ensure that the residents of Dundumwezi are protected.

 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the death of Mr Donald Chikwinkwi of Chaanza Vilage in Chikankata Chiefdom in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency. The Zambia Police Service received a report of the death of Mr Chikwinkwi on 29^th January, 2020, and immediately went to pick the body.

 

Sir, the victim lived alone and police found his body in the kitchen. A postmortem was conducted and the cause of death was severe head injury. No suspects have since been arrested but the Zambia Police Service is still investigating the matter.

 

Mr Speaker, to maintain law and order in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency, the Zambia Police Service has intensified motorised patrols and is collaborating with the community leaders and members through the Community Crime Prevention Unit (CCPU).

 

I thank you, Sir.