Thursday, 28th January, 2021

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Thursday, 28th January, 2021


The House met at 1430 hours













The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to render a ministerial statement on the shooting incident, which occurred in Lusaka District on 23rd December, 2020, resulting in the death of two citizens.


Madam, let me bring to your attention and, through you, this august House and the nation at large the background of events that led to the violence which occurred near the Zambia Police Service Headquarters. The public may wish to note that the shooting was triggered by unruly United Party for National Development (UPND) sympathisers, who went to offer solidarity to their leader against police warning.


Madam Speaker, the brief facts of the matter are that on Wednesday, 23rd December, 2020, the leader of the UPND, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, was required to report at the Police Headquarters for an inquiry. Prior to his appearance on 22nd December, 2020, the Inspector-General of Police, Mr Kakoma Kanganja, issued a warning to UNPD sympathisers on the need to follow the laid down procedures with regard to public gatherings and the public health guidelines regarding the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic.


However, on the material date, the UPND leader was escorted by a group of UPND sympathisers, who used about thirty buses. I must emphasise that the leader was summoned in his personal capacity and the allegations were personal in nature. They were without any casual link to his political party.


Madam, the convoy of motor vehicles carrying sympathisers was obstructing the smooth flow of traffic along the Ring Road, and this prompted police officers to move in and intercept the convoy at the junction of the Ring Road at the Mosi-o-Tunya traffic lights. The passengers were advised to avoid moving in a long convoy, as it disrupted the smooth flow of traffic and also endangered the lives of other innocent members of the public. However, the convoy diverted into other alternative by-pass routes in order to elude other police snap checkpoints which were mounted along the way.


Madam Speaker, after realising that there was adequate police presence, the UPND sympathisers disembarked from the vehicles with a view to escort their leader to the Police Service Headquarters on foot on Independence Avenue. Alert police officers stopped and advised them to disperse, and only a few vehicles were allowed to proceed. Nonetheless, this advice infuriated the UPND sympathisers who became unruly and began throwing objects at police officers with a view to force their way into the Zambia Police Service Headquarters grounds. It was at this point that the police responded by discharging tear smoke canisters at the UPND sympathisers. Despite the resistance, the police managed to disperse the unruly UPND sympathisers resulting in the security situation being brought under control and calm was restored.


Madam, about thirty minutes later, information was received that two bodies had been spotted lying down between old Cabinet Office building and the National Prosecutions office building. Police quickly rushed to the scene of the crime where they found two bodies lying on the ground. One body, later identified as that of Mr Nsama Nsama Chipyoka aged forty-four, a state prosecutor, was found lying at the entrance of Lafe Restaurant while the other body identified as that of Mr Joseph Kaunda, aged twenty-six, from Kafue District, was found lying on an access road into the Ministry of Works and Supply.


Madam Speaker, following the unfortunate incident, which regrettably resulted into the death of two citizens, investigations were instituted which included summoning and interviewing commanders and officers who were on the ground on the material day, identifying witness who could have seen what transpired, crime scene visitation and subjecting firearm used during the operation to ballistic examinations as well as subjecting the two dead bodies to a post-mortem which established that the two died of fatal bullet wounds.


Madam Speaker, the House may wish to note that the team tasked to investigate this matter has already concluded its investigations and the suspect who is alleged to have fired the gunshots that led to the death of Mr Nsama Nsama Chipyoka and Mr Joseph Kaunda has since been identified and the report has been forwarded to His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, who has studied the report and handed it over to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) for further action. At the same time, the Zambia Police Service has forwarded the docket of the case to the DPP.


Madam Speaker, further, police managed to arrest twenty-one suspects who were detained in police custody and later charged for the offence of conduct likely to cause the breach of peace. They were released after paying the admission of guilt fine. Further, three buses were impounded on suspicion of having ferried UPND sympathises. On this score, I wish to strongly discourage the practice of moving with crowds when one is summoned before law enforcement agencies, a trend which has proved to be a recipe for lawlessness and chaos.


Madam Speaker, in order to prevent further loss of life during such occurrences, the Government is implementing the following measures:


  1. retraining of officers on the recently acquired specialised equipment for effective crowd management;
  2. conducting routine station lectures on the use of firearms and parades to assess the ability of officers to handle firearms before being assigned duties; and
  3. through the Community Crime Prevention Unit, the Zambia Police Service has continued to sensitise the public on the importance of maintaining law and order.


Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to take this opportunity to warn perpetrators of lawlessness that the Zambia Police Service will sternly deal with them and will not allow criminals to dare the institution with impunity. I wish to remind all the citizens of the Republic of Zambia to respect democratic processes and the rule of law. The democratic process cannot be allowed to be circumvented through unlawful protests.


Madam Speaker, I wish to equally warn the Zambia Police officers that no one is above the law. The Government will not shield them from justice when they choose to take the law into their own hands. They will face the consequences individually. The long arm of the law will visit them regardless of their position or status in the service. As officers, they are expected to follow laid down procedures at all times when discharging their duties. Further, officers are requested to exhibit high levels of professionalism and discipline when dealing with members of the public.


Madam Speaker, once again, on behalf of his Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, and, indeed, on my own behalf and that of the entire Government, I would like to convey our heartfelt condolences to both families of the deceased. May their souls rest in eternal peace.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.


Mr Chali (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister has clearly stated that the Opposition leader by the name of Mr Hakahinda Hichilema was called in his personal capacity to appear before the police. With that mob and his claims after that incident that it was the State that wanted to assassinate him, what response does the hon. Minister have regarding that claim?


Madam First Deputy Speaker: In the hon. Minister’s statement, there was no mention of anyone being assassinated.


Hon. Member for Katombola, remember it is questions on points of clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister, and not other issues.


Mr Livune (Katombola): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated and warned that members of the public should not accompany those who are called by the police in their personal capacity. May I find out whether there is any law that bars people from accompanying their beloved ones when they go to find out why they are being called anywhere in this country.


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I acknowledge the follow up question by the hon. Member for Katombola. I am just a bit surprised that the hon. Member, as a legislator, can pose such a question.


Madam Speaker, this House has passed a number of Acts of Parliament. The issue of management of processions is provided for in the Public Order Act. So, any procession of a prescribed number of people is managed under that Act. Therefore, anyone who intends to gather in large numbers must follow what is provided in the Public Order Act. As to whether people must be allowed to be show solidarity, I was just discouraging that because the only threat we have to both democracy and freedom is lawlessness.


Madam Speaker, if, for example, I committed a crime today, in my individual capacity, as Stephen Kampyongo, do I need to go and ferry people from Shiwang’andu to come and be with me as I account for my wrong doing? It does not work like that. Even in this case, it does not matter what status one has. In this country, we have laws and have said that no one is above the law. So, there is no law for those who think that they are more special than other human beings. When one is called by the police, it is important he/she goes and presents oneself. In any case, even if one goes with a thousand people, are they going to help one answer to the police?


Madam Speaker, I was just discouraging such activities. However, should people wish to be shown solidarity, they must follow what is provided in the Public Order Act.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Chikote (Luampa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that Mr Hakainde Hichilema, the president of the United Party for National Development (UPND) is heading the second largest party in this country. In his submission, the hon. Minister has mentioned sympathisers of president Hakainde Hichilema. In his conclusion, he said that the police will deal firmly with the criminals. Now, I want the hon. Minister to clarify whether Mr Chama and Mr Kaunda, who were shot dead, were sympathisers or criminals.


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the follow up question by the hon. Colleague from Mangango.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: From Luampa.


Mr Kampyongo: From Luampa.


Madam Speaker, categorically, I indicated where the two victims who were caught up in the activities, and regrettably lost their lives, came from and who they were. These are people who just got caught up. I shared that Mr Nsama Nsama Chipyoka was a State Public Prosecutor. He was a gallant gentleman who started his career in the Zambia Police Service before he moved to the National Prosecutions Authority (NPA) and I knew him personally. He was caught up in the scheme of things as he was trying to go to a restaurant. The other gentleman, of course, was, surprisingly, from Kafue. We want to understand how he found himself in that particular area at that time.


Madam Speaker, the danger of lawlessness is that the victims, sometimes, are innocent people, just as the case is. If there was no movement of people from different areas, I do not think that shooting would have taken place. I was aware of the potential danger, as the Minister of Home Affairs, after the Zambia Police Service Inspector-General (IG) advised. I also joined him because we were both aware of what was happening on the other side. So, those innocent people who were caught up could not have been part of the procession, but the unruly people who came out of the buses and decided to start walking on foot.


Madam Speaker, ultimately, where there is lawlessness, normally, innocent people end up being casualties. That is why lawlessness, like I said, remains a threat to both democracy and freedom. So, those two cannot be described to be criminals. As the police are investigating, they will go further to ascertain why people were ferried from different corners against the advice of the police. Like I said, you cannot make a procession without following the Public Order Act. Even if you love someone, you need to follow the law. I agree with the hon. Member that the person who was summoned by the police could be a leader of a certain large political party, but the law does not provide for anyone in that category.


Madam Speaker, as an individual, he must subscribe to the same laws we all subscribe to. So, if he is found wanting, the police will not say that he cannot be summoned because he is a leader of a political party. It does not work like that and I have to make that very clear because going forward, we are not going to tolerate this attitude of daring State institutions with that kind of impunity.


Madam Speaker, we only have one country and we have the responsibility to ensure that the peace that we have enjoyed is not disturbed. We see how people run away from countries where lawlessness has taken route. I look after refugees and I know the responsibilities that have been bestowed on my shoulders by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia.


So, we advise all those who are required by the police, be it leaders, to just conduct themselves like law abiding citizens.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, in his submission, I did not hear the hon. Minister state whether the people who have been arrested are police officers, after receiving the report. In his statement, he has not even mentioned an incident, which is in the public domain and whose footage is all over, in which a policeman threatened to shoot a lawyer who was escorting the same person who was summoned by the police. Why has the hon. Minister left out a very important fact by not stating that the people who shot Mr Kaunda and Mr Nsama are police officers?


Madam First Deputy Speaker: Are you asking a question or you are providing information?


Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, I am asking the hon. Minister to state categorically whether the suspects who have been arrested are police officers so that we know and make decisions starting from there.


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I have indicated that investigations have been concluded and the report was submitted to the His Excellency the President, who later forwarded the same to the DPP and, at the same time, the Zambia Police Service also forwarded a docket to the DPP. So, there is a report and a docket that was also forwarded to the DPP. As I speak, the DPP is studying both documents and, then, will decide what the next course of action will be. At that point, when the DPP has made a decision, the hon. Member will know who the suspect is and what the course of action will be. As it is, this is how far I can go. The rest is to follow after the decision of the DPP has been arrived at.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that among the measures that have been taken to improve the way the police manage protestors and those who escort people to whatever their situations is to upscale the training of officers in the Zambia Police Service.


Madam Speaker, there is discontent among the general public because it appears that police officers are not well trained in Zambia. Is this the first specialised training officers are undergoing or there have been trainings before? This must be made clear to restore confidence among the general public.  


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the Zambia Police Service trains its officers at its three training schools, which are the Lilayi Police College, the Kamfinsa School of Public Order Maintenance and the Para-military School, popularly known as Sondela.


Madam Speaker, the training I was talking about is in-service training and also specialised in the sense that we, as a Government, under His Excellency the President of Zambia, who is the Commander-in-Chief, have done our part by capacitating the Zambia Police Service in various ways in order for it to continue executing its mandate in the history of this country.


Madam Speaker, this equipment procured is modern. This modern assorted equipment is meant to deal with any operation. When it comes to crowd control, we have procured enough equipment which should limit the use of live ammunition. We have various equipment, including water cannons, rubber bullets and advanced tear smokes which police officers can fire with precision.


Madam Speaker, there is equipment with which police officers can sit somewhere and zoom and see what is obtaining. However, this equipment can only effectively be used if officers are trained on how to handle and manage it. The desire of the Government is to see fewer fatalities in operations and less risk for our officers when they are discharging their functions. However, like I said, where lawlessness or disorderly activities take place, the risk of having causalities is very high and there is a need to have officers well trained to deal with various situations.


Madam Speaker, I want to assure the hon. Member that the only reason we are proud to say Zambia is a peaceful nation for all these years is because we have had an effective police. Yes, there could be short comings in one incident or another and those shortcomings need to be acknowledged and dealt with. However, overly, when we say that Zambia is a peaceful nation, we are saying that Zambia is effectively policed.


Madam Speaker, for everyone to enjoy their rights and live like human beings, it is because someone is there to watch over and make sure that each one’s freedoms are protected and respected. So, the training is in-service, which is done to continue capacitating officers to sharpen their skills to serve their people better.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Madam Speaker, after mentioning that the investigation is over and that the report has been handed over to the President, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the firearm that was used in the shooting has been identified, together with the ownership.


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, in my statement, I indicated that there have been ballistic experts who have assessed the firearms. There was also an autopsy which was conducted and it was also able to show what sort of bullets caused the fatalities. So, when I said that the investigations have been concluded, it meant that all these matters had been dealt with.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Jere (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, there have been extra judicial killings under the Patriotic Front (PF) regime. This is not the first time that the hon. Minister has warned the police officers about none of them being above the law. Therefore, citizens are wondering why the police, who work under orders, are not instructed to not carry live bullets whenever they carry out such duties. What are the reasons police officers have continued carrying or using live bullets on defenceless and unarmed citizens?


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I would like to clearly state that according to the Zambia Police Act, Section 24(1) Cap 107 of the Laws of Zambia:


         “Any police officer may use a fire arm when:


  1. any person in lawful custody charged with or convicted of a felony when such person is escaping or attempting to escape;
  2. when any person who by force rescues or attempts to rescue any other person from lawful  custody;
  3. any person who by force prevents or attempts to prevent the lawful arrest of himself or another person: ...


Further, the 2010 Service Instructions provide that a police officer can use a firearm when he or she is attacked and his/her life is in danger and there are no any other means by which he can save his life as follows:.


(e)        when a riotuous mob has been warned to disperse, a police officer may take any action necessary against any persons in the mob who fail to disperse. If any person in the mob are seriously resisting the police and this resistance cannot be overcome by other means, they may be fired upon.


So, this is how police officers use firearms. The use of firearms in any other circumstance than in the instances stated is punishable. I made this issue very clear in my statement. To this effect, we have had officers who have been found wanting by discharging firearms without following what I have just described here. Some of them are serving sentences in the correctional facilities. In instances such as the one we are discussing today, again, investigations are carried out to ascertain whether, indeed, the person who could have discharged the firearm was under threat or did it due to other circumstances. This is why the DPP is applying her mind to these matters as she studies the report and the docket.


Madam Speaker, the tension between members of the public and the police, everywhere else, has always been in existence. However, what matters most is how these challenges are dealt with. Certainly, both the police and the public have been given space within which to exercise their rights such as freedom of movement, but there are also wrong doers who must be dealt with in society. So, the conflicts between the public and police are managed through the measures that are put in place. Police officers are human beings like anyone else despite their profession. Behind those uniforms are human beings who are also prone to err or make mistakes. So, those mistakes must be provided for.


Madam, to try and insinuate that many people have died under the PF Government is cheap politicking. I would not want to respond to that kind of cheap politicking because we have a duty to protect Zambians. Therefore, these isolated incidents must be dealt with appropriately. By and large, the role of the police is very well-known because it is to protect life, citizens and their property.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, of course, the police officers are there to protect and not to kill people. Now, we have seen the former hon. Minister of Health being accompanied to court by a mob, and the police did not do anything. We also saw the former hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development, now hon. Minister of Tourism and Art, accompanied to court by a mob, and the police did not do anything. Every citizen has a constitutional right to enjoy what the laws of the country have prescribed, and this includes Mr Hakainde Hichilema because he is a citizen. Therefore, his constitutional rights should not be abrogated.


Madam, the Government wants the people to follow what it says and not what the law says. Zambians are there to be guided by the law and not by the wish of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. The same policemen shamelessly shot at two people. Before this, we talked about how police should not use live bullets, but they have continued doing so. My question to the hon. Minister is that how can we have the same people who are supposed to protect the citizens of the country shoot at those they are supposed to protect? Again, how can you have the same people investigating the matter? What kind of investigation is that? The same people who killed them are the ones who are investigating. I need a clarification from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the follow-up question from the gentleman from Kalomo Central. I want to make him understand that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs does not have his own set of laws. The hon. Member of Parliament should cite which law he thinks people must follow.


Madam Speaker, I have indicated that processions are supposed to be managed under the Public Order Act and he cited some examples. Therefore, I will respond to him because we need to be sincere even when we are asking questions. He cited my hon. Colleague, the former. Minister of Health, as having gone to court with people. He was equally guided. Sometimes, people follow someone without being invited and other times upon invitation, but he was guided. I am saying this because, as a minister, I have a responsibility to guide my colleagues too. So, he was guided.


Madam, when the guidance was not adhered to, those who tried to dare the police at the court grounds were dealt with. I am sure the hon. Member who has asked this question remembers what happened to the alleged cadres who tried to dare the police at the courts. He must remember that they were dealt with right there. So, there is nothing like this law is meant for the PF while the other is not. The guidance is for everyone. My dear colleague, Hon. Chitotela, whom the hon. Member referred to, was guided accordingly and he obliged.


Madam, the same was the case when my elder brother, Hon. Lubinda, was appearing before the courts of law for having been assaulted. The suspects had plans of being accompanied to court by people. That was brought to our attention and the police were alerted and they were stopped. So, Hon. Lubinda went through the court process quietly without being accompanied by anyone. So, it is not like we guide some while we do not guide others. Ours is not to turn a blind eye to one wrong and pay attention to another wrong. It does not work like that. So, my dear hon. Colleague should know that everyone else subscribes to the same laws.


Madam, with regards to the police investigating the shooting incident when they could be suspects, I will cite an example of this institution (Parliament). There are certain transgressions which the hon. Members commit and we investigate ourselves here, as hon. members of Parliament. Those who are wrong are found wanting. So, it is the same thing. The fact is that if one police officer does something wrong, the whole institution will not sit and shield that particular individual. It does not work like that.


Some of the people I was referring to, who are already in incarceration, have been prosecuted by their fellow officers. They were found wanting by the courts of law and they were sent to jail. So, there is no question of doubting. The House will recall that His Excellency the President took keen interest in this matter to ensure that the two families get the justice they want. We are privileged to have a Republican President who is also a lawyer. So, he took keen interest because he wanted to be sure that the expectations of the members of the public are met through the work the police was going to carry out. If he was not satisfied, he would have decided to call for a joint investigation. We have done that before. Where we have felt that, maybe, investigations will delay, we have recommended joint investigations which bring different institutions together to investigate a matter. So, in this particular case, His Excellency the President is satisfied and that is the reason he deemed it fit to submit the report to the DPP.


Madam, for those who have been questioning why the President took the report to the DPP, I want to make it very clear that even you, as our Speaker, can hand over a report straight to the DPP when you have a matter that you feel should be prosecuted, and there is prima facie evidence that this matter needs to be prosecuted. The Chief Justice, who runs the other arm of Government, can do the same. The President did the same thing. There was nothing irregular about him handing over that report to the relevant authority. He said that as the Head of State, he was now satisfied that the investigations have been properly conducted. He said to the DPP, “Madam, study this so that you can recommend the action to take.” That is why she is looking at both the report and the docket that the police have forwarded to her.


I thank you, Madam.


Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, let me find out about the use of ammunition during this incident which the hon. Minister has talked about. At what point did the police approach the sympathisers he referred to with ammunition? Was it at the time when the canisters were fired or it was after the canisters were fired and the crowds had dispersed that the ammunition was used on the same sympathisers? I want to find out from the hon. Minister.


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, in my statement, I explained what transpired. There were crowds coming from two different directions. That firing of canisters was on the other side of Police Headquarters. That is why I said the event where these two citizens were shot at was on the other side of the Police Headquarters behind the old Cabinet building and near the Ministry of Works and Supply. They were different scenarios and directions from which these crowds came. That incident occurred behind Cabinet Office, like I said. The rest of the details will be made available as the DPP decides the way forward.


I thank you, Madam.


Mr Mulunda (Siavonga): Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I thank the hon. Minister of Home Affairs for admitting that some of the officers we see roaming the streets of this country are incompetent. They are not able to use firearms properly. The hon. Minister indicated in his responses that the person who shot dead those people has been charged. Were the two people, now deceased, shot at by one person?


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I have made myself very clear. I cannot give more details than I have given with regard to the shooting incident at this point.


I thank you, Madam.


Ms Subulwa (Sioma): Madam Speaker, I think the statement by the hon. Minister is not very clear regarding who was at fault between the police and the United Party for National Development (UPND) cadres. My concern is that we continue to lose lives of innocent people who are not even in the forefront of these riots. We have lost two innocent souls, and it is quite unfortunate. My condolences to the families. I would like to know whether the reaction to the shooting was caused by some kind of riotous behaviour. Were the police being dared by the crowd or not? Were the UPND symphathisers or cadres armed or not? Will the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, at a later point, come to the House and furnish us and the public at large with information on who the actual shooters were? Is it the police or the UPND cadres? Were the cadres armed or not armed? That is my US$1 million question. I would like to know who the actual shooters were.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister cannot tell you who the actual people who fired the shots are, but I will allow him to answer whether the crowd or some people in the crowd were armed.


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I will start by stating the fact that those who gathered did so against the law. Prior to that particular date, they were advised not to gather. That is why some of them were charged. I indicated that twenty-one were charged and they paid the admission of guilt fine for gathering unlawfully. Investigations have continued to determine who organised the movement of such a large number of people, which was not desirable. I also indicated that some cadres were throwing different objects at the police on the other side of Police Headquarters. So, it would be premature for me to say that they were armed with firearms.


Madam Speaker, I want to further state that for the first time, we had a threat on the second highest office of the land, that of Her Honour the Vice-President, the Cabinet Office, because that is where that crowd was heading. Probably, this could be similar to what happened somewhere in Washington DC, where the highest institution there was under bombardment. We say that lawlessness comes with casualties and could be seen from what happened in an advanced country with all sorts of things. The Office of the Vice-President was under threat because Police Headquarters and Her Honour the Vice-President’s office are in very close proximity. You can imagine the inconvenience that was caused.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, were they armed or not?


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, it would be premature for me to ascertain whether they were armed with firearms, but there were a few objects that were thrown at the police that caused them to discharge tear gas.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Dr Chibanda (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for updating the nation on what happened on that fateful and sad day that claimed the lives of two Zambians, may their souls rest in peace.


Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that twenty-one people were charged. We know for a fact that those crowds were rented by the Opposition. Is he in a position to tell the nation whether some of the twenty-one who were charged are from a named political party that rented the crowd to defend its leader who was supposed to appear before law enforcement agents?


Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am not sure that I should allow that question, and I will not. I will now move on to the zoom list. I have four hon. Members on this list.


Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate statement. It has become common for politicians to ferry people to the police each time they are summoned. Mr Hakainde Hichilema, particularly, is in the habit of ferrying mobs of people. What advice would the hon. Minister give to such politicians?


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, my advice to political figures like me, who have a big number of supporters, and we all have supporters anyway, is that when we commit offenses as individuals, we must learn to account for them as individuals. Yes, we may be politicians with many supporters, but that does not make us special citizens. We are all equal before the law.


Madam Speaker, therefore, my advice is that when one is summoned, such a person should be answerable. In any case, if one is summoned over a case of fraud, how can he/she be accompanied by people who do not know how that fraud was committed? How are they going to help apart from endanger other people’s lives? That is why we have lawyers like the Tutwa’s of this world ...


Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear! Ema references aya.


Mr Kampyongo: ... to escort people and guide them as they answer. The mob will not come where one is to be interrogated. It is the same as when you go to court. You face the people on the bench alone and they question you and not your supporters.


Madam Speaker, in some country, someone is being charged individually for influencing people to match to some democratic institution. Those who committed the offences are also being charged individually and that is why the twenty-one were charged individually.


Madam Speaker, there is no such thing as being accompanied by a mob as a way of intimidating institutions. That is what I am advising against. I am making it categorically clear that the Government will not succumb to lawlessness. That is why, in August, we shall be going to the people of Zambia to ask them who they want to govern them. That is the way it works. We are not going to show muscle by going to the police with many people. It will not happen. We have institutions of governance such as the police and the courts of law which are there to ensure that all of us, as citizens, are treated equally.


Madam Speaker, I was in Kabwe yesterday on an assignment given to me by His Excellency the President. The people whom I was dealing with behind those walls of incarceration were all being treated equally, as citizens. That is what happens. You cannot assume that being accompanied by a mob when summoned will intimidate the police into not asking what they want to ask you. It will not happen.


Madam Speaker, what is going to happen to the poor citizens of Zambia if they are made to believe that if they are have-nots and have no followers, they cannot go to the police when they have a grievance because the person who trampled on their rights has a large following? What are we saying to the complainants who went to the police, in this case? Are they lesser Zambians because they do not have followers? Should they not be protected?


Madam Speaker, my advice to political leaders is that when we commit offences that are personal in nature, we should account for them personally. To those who do not follow the law, gatherings are provided for.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the point that the hon. Minister has made as regards the treating of citizens equally. To the contrary, a few days ago, I tried to call the hon. Minister to tell him how governance is being handled by his Government.  Unfortunately, his phone was off.


Madam Speaker, according to the Public Order Act, the police is supposed to be informed about public processions, but in many cases, the Opposition is denied completely whilst public processions and petitions by Patriotic Front (PF) cadres are the order of the day without regard for the instruments in place.


Madam Speaker, my question has to do with the docket. We have seen in this country that suspects are arrested before –


Madam First Deputy Speaker: Ask your question.


Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, I am asking the question now.


Madam Speaker, suspects are picked, arrested and then dockets are processed by the Director of Public Prosecutions (DDP). Why are you now beginning with the DPP before arresting the suspects when investigations have already been concluded? Why where the suspects not arrested before the DPP could give guidance?


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, there is nothing irregular about what has been done. These are straightforward procedures. Circumstances differ and, in some cases, after studying the docket, the DPP issues instructions which the police or, indeed, any other law enforcement office executes. It works either way and there is nothing irregular about what has been done.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Sampa (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, the wonderful people of Kasama are very concerned about some of these supportive demonstrations that have been happening every time officials of the United Party for National Development (UPND) are summoned by the police or when their members put up their so-called demonstrations. Every time they are out in the public, there is either bloodshed or somebody is killed.


Madam Speaker, the general public is very concerned that this only comes from one political party. How sure are we that our people are going to be secured and protected from future reoccurrences of violence if these people are allowed to hold such gatherings?


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I want to assure the hon. Member that yes, indeed, the concerns of the people are valid. Any form of lawlessness is a threat to the peace of citizens. Therefore, just like I indicated in my statement, we are trying to re-sharpen the Zambia Police Service even in the advent of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and ensure that it is capacitated well enough to deal with any form of lawlessness.


Madam Speaker, I indicated that the Government, under His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, the Commander-in-Chief, has, for the first time in the history of this country, supported us in providing modern equipment for police officers. When they are trained to use this particular equipment, they will be able to deal with any situation with lesser casualties as can be avoided.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Zambezi West, you may take the Floor. I understand that you are back online now.


Ms Kucheka (Zambezi West): Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate that I have been indicating for a long time on Zoom that consequently, Hon. Subulwa asked the question I wanted to ask. Therefore, I do not have another question for now.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: She has been helpful.


Hon. Members, you will agree that we cannot go on and on. We have had a total of fifteen hon. Members ask questions on this ministerial statement. We have to move on.








93. Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Health when the following health posts in Sikongo District will become operational:


  1. Liundu;
  2. Makia; and
  3. Mutala.


The Minister of Health (Dr Chanda): Madam Speaker, Liundu, Makia and Mutala health posts in Sikongo District will become operational after the completion of the construction of the ventilated improved pits (VIP) latrines.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, I would like to know when the construction of the ventilated improved pits (VIP) latrines will be constructed and completed.


Dr Chanda: Madam Speaker, the reason for the lack of construction of the VIP latrines is that there has been no funding. The construction of the VIP latrines will be dependent on the availability of funds.


Madam Speaker, for the sake of the hon. Member and the others, I would like them to know that each health post when constructed requires three VIP latrines to be functional and the cost per VIP latrine is K50,000. This means that the cost, altogether, is about K150,000 per health post. This applies to all health posts that are constructed in the country.


Madam Speaker, again, I reiterate that when funds are available, the time frame for the construction of the latrines will be six weeks. For now, we are looking into the issue of funding for the project.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Madam Speaker, Sikongo is like many other constituencies in this country. In Manyinga, you find that, in many instances, the construction of health posts would have been completed, but not operational. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why it is taking long for health posts to be operational?


Dr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I think I have already answered that question. It is taking long for health posts to be operational because there is a lack of equipment and staff. More importantly, there is a lack of sewer systems. Each health post needs three VIP latrines and I stated the cost. Each health post needs three VIP latrines worth K150,000. So, I said that when funds are available, we shall complete and operationalise all health posts. However, many of them are already operational and we are taking a phased approach, as resources become available.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Madam First Deputy Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Lihefu.


Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, Kanchibiya is in a similar state whereby using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and the Equalisation Fund from the council under local government, we have constructed seven rural health posts. We are also constructing toilets and incinerators using the CDF. Would the hon. Minister advise when clinics or rural health centres which are open or ready for use, like those in Kanchibiya, would be operationalised?


Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am not sure that the hon. Minister has that information for Kanchibiya. The question relates to Sikongo.


Hon. Minister, at a later stage, are you able to come with such information?


Dr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for Kanchibiya who happens to be the hon. Member of Parliament for my home village. I first want to commend him for using the CDF and Equalisation Fund for constructing the toilets. However, the same applies. We encourage hon. Members who use the CDF to construct clinics and health posts to engage very closely with the Ministry of Health because there is a master plan for infrastructure, equipment and deployment of staff. Like we have been told over and over, constructing a health post is not the issue, but operationalising it. Equipment has to be there and we have to make sure that water and sewerage are all there. Otherwise, we will endanger people, with very good intentions.


Madam Speaker, therefore, I would like to advise the hon. Member for Kanchibiya and everyone else using the CDF to engage very closely with our ministry so that we can see how, together, we can operationalise those facilities.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, why were the clinics constructed without a budgetary provision for the ventilated improved pit (VIP) latrines?  


Dr Chanda: Madam Speaker, I think it is not true that the construction of a health facility had no budget. The budget was there, and that is why we were already talking about costing. These issues have already been costed. It is one thing to have a budget, but it is another thing to have the resources to back it. So, we have the budget for all health facilities including the Ventilated Improved Pit (VIP) latrines. However, like I said, for each health post, we need K150,000 worth of three VIP latrines to be functional. So, while we have a budget, we have to get the resources to complete that.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Madam Speaker, Liundu and Makiya health posts were constructed using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). These two clinics are complete and they have since been opened. The construction of toilets at Mutala Health Post has taken four years and it is still not complete. The people of Mutala are still walking 60 km to 70 km to go to the nearest health post. The people of Mutala would like to know when they will start accessing health services at this health post. So, what is the Government telling the people of Mutala?


Dr Chanda: Madam Speaker, my message to the people of Mutala is that the health facility will be operationalised as we get funds to build the VIP latrines. I would urge the hon. Member for Sikongo to engage directly with the Ministry of Health, myself in particular, so that we can see how we can quickly operationalise the facility.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Mutaba (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, has the ministry prioritised the smaller issues? When you look at constructing a clinic, you will see that it is more expensive than a Ventilated Improved Pit (VIP) toilet. How can the Government construct a clinic and then take four years to operationalise it? Has the ministry prioritised the smaller things so that people in the rural areas can have access to health services closer to them?


Dr Chanda: Madam Speaker, indeed, the ministry has prioritised the construction and operationalisation not only of the health posts, but also of the bigger hospitals and the mini hospitals. Like I said, the Government had a project to construct 650 health posts across the country, and many of them are fully operational, including those in Bwana Mkubwa Constituency. At an appropriate time, I will come with a list so that we look at the 650 health posts and see where we are and identify which ones are not operational. I will share that information with the hon. Members. The Government’s commitment to the operationalisation of these facilities is unquestionable. We shall ensure that these health posts are all finished and they are operational.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.




94. Mr S. Tembo (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development:


  1. whether the Government has any plans to construct a youth skills training centre in Chadiza District;
  2. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
  3. what the estimated cost of the project is; and 
  4. what the estimated time frame for the completion of the project is.


The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo) (on behalf of The Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development (Mr Mulenga)): Madam Speaker, permit me to convey our condolences to our dear Colleague, the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development who has lost his parent, hence my responding to the question on his behalf.


Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to know that, indeed, through Government policy, the Government has plans to establish a youth skills training centre in Chadiza District, just like any other district.


Madam, the plans to construct a youths skills training centre in Chadiza District will be implemented when funds are available. The ministry is also engaging other partners for alternative funding for infrastructure development. The estimated cost of constructing a youth skills training centre in a rural district such as Chadiza ranges between K5 million and K10 million.


Madam Speaker, the estimated time frame to construct a youth skills training centre is dependent on the availability of funds and the pace at which the contractors work, in this case, the schedule that the contractor submits to the client at the commencement of the project.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Mrs Chinyama (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I just wanted to find out from the hon. Minister –


Mr Mubika: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.


Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me an opportunity to raise a point of order on the hon. Minister of National Guidance and Religious Affairs. Is she in order to be showing us how she is enjoying her food when the people of Shang’ombo are starving without donating any relief food to them?


I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: The House is not aware that the hon. Minister of National Guidance and Religious Affairs is enjoying food anywhere. Therefore, the hon. Minister is in order, especially if she is enjoying her food quietly without disturbing anyone.


Hon. Member for Kafue, proceed with your question.


Mrs Chinyama: Madam Speaker, assuming that the funds for the construction were available, what would be the average time frame to construct a fully fledged skills centre? From my experience in Kafue, we have had one under construction and it has taken close to eight years. Could the hon. Minister give us the average time it could take to construct a youth skills training centre if funds were available?


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the construction period of skills training centres, like any other project, forms part of the contract of a particular project. So, what happens is that those that are bidding for the project also indicate the time frame in which they can complete the project. Sometimes, the Ministry of Works and Supply prepares the drawings, requirements, schedule of the works that need to be carried out and estimates the time. When the contractor is given the contract to execute, the time frame forms part of the contract. Therefore, it can take two years or so for a project to be completed. It depends on the distance to be covered. For instance, a building that takes six months to be constrcuted in Lusaka might not take six months in Chadiza. So, the distance to be covered or where the contractor is domiciled varies. The time can only be determined at the point of awarding a contract, and time frames differ depending on what the contractor agrees with the client.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will allow questions from hon. Members for Chifubu and Kanchibiya constituencies.


Mr Ng’ambi (Chifubu) Madam Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chifubu an opportunity to ask a follow up question. I would like to thank the hon. Minister for stating that the Government intends to construct a youth training centre for the people of Chadiza. Bearing in mind that youth training centres are strategic to youth development in this country, is the hon. Minister able to state what kind of courses will be offered at this training centre once it is complete?


Madam First Deputy Speaker: The question is about completion of the construction works and not about the courses to be offered.


Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I would like to relay my condolences to the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development on the untimely demise of his parents.


Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that the ministry or the Government is looking for partners to ensure that districts are equipped with youth training centres. For us in Kanchibiya, our population is mainly very youthful and we have a great desire for a youth training centre. If we apportioned our Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to the construction of youth centres, would the Government prioritise the construction of youth training centres in Kanchibiya?


The First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kanchibiya has a way of bringing Kanchibiya into every other question. I will allow this one.


Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, thank you so much for allowing that question from the hon. Member for Kanchibiya. Due to the importance of the institutions we are talking about, I can also partly give an answer to the hon. Member for Chifubu. These are skills training facilities that we provide for our youths across the country to make sure that youths are capacitated with various skills like carpentry, automotive mechanics and all those skills can permit them to even create jobs not only for themselves, but also other youths.


Madam Speaker, these are very critical for the ministry. I am very grateful and glad to hear the suggestion from the hon. Member for Kanchibiya. Indeed, as a ministry, we will be glad to partner with hon. Members who will see it fit to apportion part of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) towards very important undertakings. The CDF is equally money appropriated from the coffers of the Ministry of Finance. So, if an hon. Member, such as Hon. Dr Malama of Kanchibiya, comes on board, we will be glad to work with him to provide an environment that will enable our youths to acquire various skills for their betterment and, indeed, empowerment.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.




95 Mr Mutelo (Mitete) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:


  1. whether the Government has any plans to provide a pontoon on Lungwevungu River at Meso-Akawa in Mitete to facilitate movement between Mitete and Zambezi West Parliamentary constituencies;
  2. if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
  3. what the total cost of providing the pontoon is.


The Minister of Works and Supply (Ms Chalikosa): Madam Speaker, the Government, through the Engineering Services Corporation Limited (ESCO), under the Ministry of Works and Supply, has had plans to provide a pontoon on Lungwevungu River at Meso-Akawa crossing point in Mitete District.


Madam Speaker, the pontoon was delivered to Meso-Akawa crossing point in Mitete District on 22nd March, 2020. Due to the high water levels on the Zambezi River, the installation and commissioning of the pontoon was delayed and was eventually commissioned on 26th October, 2020. Currently, pontoon services are being provided at Meso-Akawa River crossing point in Mitete District. The total cost of providing the pontoon was K450,000.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, since the pontoon has been provided, I would like to find out if that total cost includes the landing bay.


Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, according to the breakdown I have, the landing bay is not included. The K450,000 is made up of the following:


  1. mobilisation of the team from Lusaka to Watopa;
  2. dismantling of the ex-Watopa pontoon;
  3. transportation of the floaters to Lukulu;
  4. dismantling of the Lukulu pontoon;
  5. assembling the ex-Watopa pontoon;
  6. rehabilitation of the Lukulu pontoon;
  7. rehabilitation of the Lukulu pontoon steel and units;
  8. rehabilitation of the Lukulu pontoon materials and machinery;
  9. transportation of floaters to Mitete;
  10. assembling of the ex-Watopa pontoon; and
  11. demobilisation of the team.


Madam Speaker, so the landing bay is not included in that cost.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for providing the pontoon although there is no landing bay. So, when are we going to have the landing bay?


Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, at the moment, ESCO cannot provide the cost estimate of connecting roads as it is the mandate of the Road Development Agency (RDA), under the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development. Each pontoon needs to have two landing bays on either side and, due to the variations in the price of cement from time to time, the total cost per landing bay will fluctuate either upwards or downwards.


Madam Speaker, this has to be carried out in conjunction with the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development and, therefore, I am not able to answer immediately when it can be carried out.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.




96.    Dr Chibanda (Mufulira) asked the Minister of Finance:


  1. what the total number of toll plazas, countrywide, was as of July 2020;
  2. how much revenue was collected as toll fees, from inception to July 2020, year by year;
  3. when the Government will introduce Point of Sale machines at the toll plazas, countrywide;
  4. whether the Government has any plans to start collecting toll fees in foreign currency, in addition to the local currency;
  5. if so, when the plans will be implemented;
  6. which currencies will be accepted; and
  7. if there are no plans to collect fees in foreign currency, why.


The Minister of Finance (Dr Ng’andu): Madam Speaker, as at July 2020, there were twenty-five operational inland toll stations and ten ports of entry bringing the total number of toll collection points in the country to thirty-five. The toll stations are broken down as follows:


No. of Stations             Province


5                                  Copperbelt


4                                  Central


2                                  Lusaka


3                                  Southern


1                                  Muchinga


1                                  North-Western


3                                  Northern


3                                  Luapula


3                                  Western


Madam Speaker, the House may also wish to note that five additional inland toll stations have since been constructed and operationalised between September 2020 and January 2021 as follows:


No. of stations             District                                    Province         


1                                  Katete                                     Eastern


1                                  Nyimba                                   Eastern


1                                  Mkushi                                    Central


1                                  Livingstone                             Southern


1                                  Kalulushi                                 Copperbelt


Madam Speaker, with the commencement of tolling operations at George Kunda, SC., Toll Station in Mkushi and Kebby Musokotwane Toll Station in Livingstone, tolling operations at Kapiri Mposhi Weighbridge and Livingstone Weighbridge ceased and migrated to the new toll stations. The Kazungula Weighbridge, which was also a toll collection point, is currently closed for maintenance, bringing the number of operational inland toll stations to twenty-seven.


Madam Speaker, with respect to part (b) of the question, as of July 2020, K4.756 billion was collected in toll revenue from inception. The year by year breakdown is as follows:


         Year                             Amount (K)                             % increase in collections


          2014                            297 million                                 0


         2015                            428 million                              44


         2016                            465 million                                 9


         2017                            668 million                              44


         2018                            909 million                              36


         2019                         1,212 billion                               32


Madam Speaker, from July 2020, to the present, we have, so far, raised K777 million.


Madam Speaker, the House may also wish to know that in October 2020, the Government implemented the Tolls (Amendment) Regulations Statutory Instrument No. 74 of 2020 which allows for collection of tolls from foreign registered vehicles at all inland toll stations at the same rate paid by locally registered vehicles and in Zambian Kwacha.


Madam Speaker, as at 31st December, 2020, K551.9 million was collected from foreign registered vehicles at inland toll stations as a result of effecting Statutory Instrument No. 74 of 2020. Further, a total of K5.530 billion was collected in toll revenue since inception, of which K1.515 million was collected in 2020.


Madam Speaker, in response to part (c) of the question, the Government, through the National Roads Fund Agency (NRFA), has developed and deployed an electronic cashless toll payment system using point of sale machines at all inland toll stations. It should be noted that the deployed point of sale machines use electronic toll cards. The system is currently also being extended to ports of entry to make it possible for road users to access seamless service as they pay for road tolls. This technology has a quicker transaction processing time than making payment using cash.


Madam Speaker, engagements to integrate the system with the Government Service Bus (GSB) with the assistance of the Smart Zambia Institute and other digital financial solution providers such as banks and mobile money operators are underway. This will increase the availability and presence of the system to enable road users have options for loading electronic-toll value.


Madam Speaker, in response to part (d) of the question, currently, toll fees paid by foreign registered vehicles at ports of entry are collected in foreign currency, that is, the United States of America (USA) Dollar, while inland tolls are payable in local currency.


Madam Speaker, the House may also wish to note that the payable tolls for both locally registered and foreign registered vehicles are as stipulated in the toll tariff structure, as contained in the Tolls Regulation Statutory Instrument No. 85 of 2016 and also the recently amended Statutory Instrument No. 74 of 2020.


Madam Speaker, in response to part (e) of the question, as already mentioned, with respect to part (d) of the question, the tolls at the ports of entry are currently payable in foreign currency. The USA Dollar and local currencies, as stipulated in the Tolls Regulations Statutory Instrument No. 85 of 2016 and No. 74 of 2020.


Madam Speaker, in response to part (f) of the question, again, as indicated in (d), the currencies used for payment of road tolls are the Zambian Kwacha at inland toll stations and the USA Dollar at ports of entry.


Madam Speaker, lastly, in response to part (g), the only foreign currency used for payment of road tolls is the USA Dollar at ports of entry in respect of foreign registered vehicles only.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.                  


Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, I have noted the amounts in revenue that the hon. Minister says have been collected from 2014 to 2019. Are all these tolling stations able to break even, meaning that from the revenue they collect, are they able to pay salaries, pay for electricity, pay for the depreciation of the building and all other costs? Are all these tolling stations breaking even?


Dr Ng’andu: Madam Speaker, the employees of the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) who man the tolling stations are full time employees of the Government and, therefore, are on the payroll of the Government. As we all know, the resources that are collected from these tolling stations are sent to a centralised account, Control 99, from which they are distributed. So, the cost relating to the payment of employees at toll stations as well as the maintenance of buildings are met in the same way that all other costs that relate to Government employees and buildings are met.


I thank you, Madam.


Dr Kopulande (Chembe): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity, finally, for the people of Chembe to raise a question on the Floor of the House over the placement of a toll gate in Chembe. I know that the rationale for the installation of toll gates in the country is to help the Government collect revenue. It is not to punish or inconvenience people and citizens, in particular localities.


Madam Speaker, the toll gate at Chembe is built right inside the district boundary. It is built 50 m away from the health facility, at the border crossing point –


Madam First Deputy Speaker: Ask your question.


Dr Kopulande: Madam Speaker, why has the Government found it expedient to inconvenience the people of Chembe as they cannot take patients across the toll gate 50 m away from the only health facility in the district? They offload their patients before the toll gate to avoid paying the toll fees and then carry them to the clinic. This toll gate should have been put at the border of the district so as not to inconvenience the local people.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: That question is unrelated to the question on the Order Paper.


Dr Chibanda: Madam Speaker, I coined this question because I encountered a challenge at a toll gate where nationals from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) were not allowed to pay in foreign currency –


Dr Musokotwane: On a point of order, Madam.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.


Dr Musokotwane: Madam speaker, I raised a point of order immediately after the hon. Minister of Finance answered my question because I felt he did not answer my question. The question was clear and straightforward. My question was: Are all the tolling stations able to breakeven? I did not ask about who pays salaries and costs for items because they are all supposed to be paid from the particular tolling stations. So, may he, please, answer the question?


Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Finance will take that point of order into account as he responds to the next question. The hon. Member for Mufulira will proceed with his question.


Dr Chibanda: Madam Speaker, I know that the hon. Minister categorically highlighted that the payment of toll fees at border entries is open to be collected in foreign currencies. Does he not think that it would be convenient for foreigners travelling in the country to be allowed to pay using their visa cards on their accounts domiciled in foreign currencies? What is happening is that inland toll gates are not able to collect any other currency apart from the Zambian Kwacha. Does he not think it is prudent and fair to open up and flex the law to allow the collection of toll fees in foreign currency at toll stations inland?


Dr Ng’andu: Madam Speaker, I acknowledge that the current challenge is that payment in foreign currency is only allowed at the point of entry rather than inland and that may cause a particular challenge for foreign truck drivers. That is a matter that can be looked at, particularly with respect to the possibility of increasing provisions for truck drivers to pay using visa cards or master cards. As I explained earlier on, working with the Smart Zambia Institute (SZI), we will make that facility available and hope that we deal with that particular problem. As things stand, at the moment, the Statutory Instrument No. 74 provides for payments to be made in foreign currency only at the point of entry. This is a matter we could look at and if it becomes essential for us to address it, I think, we can change it.


Madam Speaker, with respect to whether toll stations meet their costs, firstly, it is a matter of how long a toll station has been in existence because what happens initially is that there is a construction cost involved which has to be amortised over a period of time. If the hon. Member wants this specific information, it can be given because we have to take toll station by toll station. From what I know, toll stations that have been around for more than a year, or so, have fully covered the cost that was spent on them. If specific information is required, I can make that available to this House.


I thank you, Madam.








Dr Imakando (Mongu Central): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee of Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources on the Proposal to Ratify the Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer for the Fifth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 22nd January, 2021.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded? Hon. Member for Mongu Central, you can ask any other member of the Committee to second the Motion.


Dr Imakando: Hon. Mecha, could you second the Motion. If you are unable to, may I ask Hon. Sililo Mutaba to second the Motion.


Mr Mutaba: was inaudible.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am told that your signal is weak.


Mr Mutaba: I will try to move where there is better signal.


Mr Mecha: Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.


Dr Imakando: Madam Speaker, pursuant to Section 5 of the Ratification of International Agreements Act No. 34 of 2016 and the National Assembly Standing Orders N0. 158 and 159, the Committee considered the executive’s proposal to ratify the Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer.


Madam, your Committee, in considering the proposal, interacted with various stakeholders in coming up with the report. I would like to believe that hon. Members have had time to read the report. Therefore, I will only highlight a few of the issues contained therein.


Madam Speaker, the Vienna Convention on the Protection of the Ozone Layer of 1985 is a global treaty whose objective is to protect the ozone layer. This convention provides frameworks for international reductions in the production of chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), due to their contribution to the depletion of the ozone layer.


Madam Speaker, in order to address the problem of substances that deplete the ozone layer, the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer was adopted in 1987. The protocol is an action plan designed to protect the ozone layer by phasing out the production and consumption of numerous substances that deplete the ozone layer. Zambia acceded to the convention and the protocol on 24th January, 1990.


Madam Speaker, the House will note that the protocol has, over the years, undergone various amendments in order to ensure efficient implementation of the convention. These amendments were the London Amendment of 1990, the Copenhagen Amendment of 1992, the Vienna Amendment of 1995, the Montreal Amendment of 1997 and the Beijing Amendment of 1999. Zambia is a party to all these amendments and their provisions have since been domesticated under the provisions of the Environmental Management Act No. 12 of 2011 and the relevant subsidiary legislation. The latest amendment, which is the Kigali Amendment of 2016, is yet to be ratified by Zambia.


Madam Speaker, the Kigali Amendment focuses on the production and consumption of Hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) by adding them to the list of substances controlled under the Montreal Protocol. These HFCs are non-ozone depleting chemicals that were introduced in the 1990s as alternatives to Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and Hydrochlorofluorocarbons (HCFCs). The introduction of HCFCs accelerated the phase out of ozone depleting substances and this had helped protect the ozone layer. However, it has been observed that HCFCs have high global warming potential and, therefore, high climate impact.


Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, the aim of the Kigali (Amendment) is to protect the climate by phasing out HFCs, which have a high global warming potential. HFCs are commonly used as refrigerants in cooling technologies. The phase-down in the global production and consumption of HFCs could save as much as 0.5 degrees celsius of global warming by 2045, while continuing to protect the ozone layer. Therefore, the implementation of the Kigali Amendment would make a major contribution towards combating climate change for the benefit of human health and the environment.


Madam Speaker, ratification of the Kigali Amendment would help facilitate the development of appropriate legislative and administrative measures in combating global warming and, therefore, complying with the requirements of the convention. Ratification of this amendment will also give Zambia access to financial and technical support established under the Montreal Protocol to provide financial and technical co-operation, including the transfer of technologies to support developing countries like Zambia in complying with the protocol.


Madam Speaker, in conclusion, let me reiterate the fact that Zambia risks becoming a dumping ground for obsolete equipment if it does not ratify the Kigali Amendment. Therefore, I wish to recommend that the House do approve the proposal to ratify the Kigali Amendment. Once the ratification is effected, the Government should expeditiously set up a team of refrigeration experts and other stakeholders to come up with a road map of actions to facilitate achievement of the Kigali Amendment provisions.


Madam Speaker, finally, on behalf of your Committee, I wish to place on record our indebtedness to you and the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and support services given during the deliberations. Allow me also to thank the various stakeholders who provided written and oral submissions which greatly assisted your Committee in its work.


Madam Speaker, I beg to move.


Thank you, Madam.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?


Mr Mecha: Now, Madam Speaker.


Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to second the Motion on the Proposal to Ratify the Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer.


Madam Speaker, I must state right from the outset that this is a non-controversial Motion which every well-meaning hon. Member of Parliament must support.


Madam Speaker, the reputation of Zambia, as a very good steward of the environment, is very well-known. The commitment to fight climate change is something that we cannot doubt about Zambia. We have a very good record of caring for people’s health and the environment. This dates back to the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government through to the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) and now the Patriotic Front (PF). We have consistently been party to a global agenda to protect the Ozone Layer, which agenda started with the Vienna Convention of 1985 which subsequently gave way to the Montreal Protocol of 1987.


Madam Speaker, you will realise that both these global instruments were ratified by Zambia in 1990 and that speaks to Zambia’s commitment. Additionally, there have been about five amendments which Zambia has also ratified. What can be a better commitment than this?


Madam Speaker, in Zambia, we are alive to the realities that come with climate change. We know that this is one of the biggest challenges that we are facing at the moment, and it is having an implication on our Budget.


Madam Speaker, you cannot doubt the fact that in agriculture, we have always complained of declining yields in most crops. This is the more reason we are even deploying the smart agriculture interventions.


Madam Speaker, the fall army worm is now the order of the day. This is something which has come due to climate change.


Madam Speaker, food availability at household level is not even something you can talk about.


Madam Speaker, in terms of water resources, the water resource in Zambia has been highly constrained, especially in the southern part of Zambia. So, the reduction in water availability is the order of the day.


Madam Speaker, if you go to the Central and the Southern provinces, you will realise how livestock is suffering because of the lack of water. The irrigation systems have collapsed because water levels have gone down.


Madam Speaker, as regards health, many people are suffering gastrointestinal illnesses in form of diarrhoea. This is all because of the temperature rise. In hospitals, there are a lot of liver and kidney related problems. Therefore, we cannot doubt the impact of climate change.


Madam Speaker, where I come from, it is a fisheries arrangement and we used to catch a lot of fish. If you go there, currently, you will find that fish breeding grounds are being altered. The fish is not able to breed properly and people may be wondering what is causing this. This is all due to climate change.


Madam Speaker, not too long ago, we were importing power from a boat which was hosted in Mozambique. Zambia spent a lot of money to import power. Look at the way we are struggling to fill the Kariba Dam and the power outages that we are experiencing.


Madam Speaker, in terms of infrastructure, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) is under stress trying to fix the infrastructure whose roofs have blown off or collapsed. This has affected the Budget for Zambia. These are serious issues. Zambia has no reason to delay the ratification of the Kigali Amendment.


Madam Speaker, we are likely to benefit a lot from the Kigali Amendment. The mover of the Motion has ably identified a number of benefits that Zambia is expected to enjoy. We are aware that with the signing of the Kigali Amendment, new funding opportunities will be unveiled.


Madam Speaker, under the Kigali Amendment, there is a provision for the Kigali Cooling Efficiency Programme. This programme can easily be harnessed in addition to the various programmes that Zambia is enjoying under the ministry –


The First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Members time has expired.


Mr Mecha: Madam Speaker, I second the Motion.


The Minister for Northern Province (Mr Bwalya): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to contribute towards this important Motion that has been moved by the hon. Member for Mongu Central.


Madam Speaker, indeed, ratifying this particular Kigali Amendment will definitely provide a number of opportunities and benefits to the Zambian people.


Madam Speaker, in fact, we have been talking about diversification not only in terms of exporting our copper, but also agriculture products. Failure for us, as the Government, to ratify the Kigali Amendment may lead to Zambia losing out on a number of aspects, especially to do with the exporting of agriculture products. It is important for us, as a country and a Government, to pay attention to some of these particular amendments that were made in Kigali and really be part and parcel of the international community.


Madam Speaker, your report has stated that Zambia's export sector particularly the agriculture and horticultural fields mostly relied on controlled substances which will not be accepted at international level if we did not become part and parcel of this particular agreement. Therefore, it is important for this National Assembly to be able to be part and parcel of these particular amendments.


Madam Speaker, looking at the benefits that have been highlighted in your report, they are quite far reaching. It is only right that we, as hon. Members of Parliament, come together and support this beautiful report.


Madam Speaker, they have talked about skills and technological transfer once this particular amendment is ratified. Your report has highlighted that ratification would also assist in the creation of local opportunities in terms of businesses for those that want to venture into export of agricultural products.


Madam Speaker, further in your report, the ratification of the amendment would promote the use of alternative and efficient climate friendly technologies, alternative gases available for use such as the Hydroflourocarbons (HFCs) and natural gases which are more energy efficient as compared to the Chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) that has been referred to in your report.


Madam Speaker, therefore, it is gratifying for us, as a Government, to note that a number of our hon. Members and, indeed, the international community at large have come up with mechanisms that will reduce the depletion of the ozone layer, which will eventually prevent and mitigate the issues that have come with climate change.


Madam Speaker, I support this particular report and I think that it is only right that this House, as a whole, rallies behind it so that we ratify this amendment. Together, we can now begin to think of coming up with a clear legal framework that will include what is contained in the Kigali Amendment because the current amendment may not have included the use of HFCs and, therefore, as a country and a Government, we need to domesticate this particular amendment  make it a part of our pieces of legislation as we endeavour to become a part of the global village.


I thank you, Madam.


Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!


(Debate adjourned)




The House adjourned at 1655 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 29th January, 2021.









































97.  Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central) asked the Minister of Health:


  1. how many Blood Gas Analysers were at the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (D Block) at the University Teaching Hospital as of July, 2020;


  1. of the machines above, how many were functional as of the same date;


  1. how many patients, on average per month, are attended to at the facility;


  1. what the average mortality rate per week was from January to December, 2019; and


  1. how many monitors were at D Block as of December 2019.



The Minister of Health (Dr Chanda): Madam Speaker, as of October 2020, we have had no blood gas analysers at the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU), but these are accessed from the main laboratory. Therefore, part (b) of the question is not applicable as there are no blood gas analysers in the NICU.


Madam Speaker, on a monthly basis, the NICU attends to an average of 400 neonatal patients. The average weekly mortality rate is twenty neonates. The commonest causes of deaths are grouped as follows:


  1. neonatal infections (infections of the new born babies) as the most common cause;


  1. prematurity (baby born before full term) as key organs are not fully formed or functional at the time the baby is born; and


  1. asphyxia, meaning difficulties with breathing, most common as a complication of birth process.


Madam Speaker, as of December 2019, the number of patient monitors available in the NICU was three.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.