Thursday, 29^th October, 2020

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

_______

 

BILL

 

SECOND READING

 

THE CONSTITUTION OF ZAMBIA (Amendment) BILL, 2019

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, before I call for debate on the Bill, I wish to provide some guidance on how the House will proceed to consider it.

 

Hon. Members, you will recall that the House adjourned abruptly on 21^st July, 2020, due to the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. As a result, the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, lapsed due to the prorogation of the House. In accordance with Standing Order 126 of the National Assembly of Zambia Standing Orders 2016, the Bill was, through a Motion moved by Her Honour the Vice-President, restored to the Order Paper on Thursday, 17^th September, 2020.

 

Hon. Members, regarding the stage at which consideration of the Bill should commence, following its restoration to the Order Paper, Standing Order 126(1)(b) and (2) provides as follows:

 

“(b)   Unless the resolution restoring the Bill to the Order Paper, directs otherwise, the Bill shall be proceeded with at the commencement of the particular stage which it had reached during the preceding session.

 

“2.    Any Bill restored to the order paper under paragraph (1) shall be proceeded with as if its passage had not been interrupted by a prorogation.””

 

Hon. Members, the meaning of the above provision is that debate at the Second Reading stage proceeds from where it ended on 24^th June, 2020, in the Fourth Session. Therefore, those hon. Members who debated in the Fourth Session will not be eligible to debate again at the Second Reading stage because this is a continuation of the proceedings on the Bill.

 

I further wish to remind the House about the provisions of Standing Order 20(3) of the National Assembly of Zambia (Coronavirus Disease 2019) Temporary Standing Orders 2020 which allows hon. Members to debate the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, virtually. However, at the end of the debate, you will be required to vote electronically, using the multimedia system in the Chamber in accordance with Standing Order 20(2) of the National Assembly of Zambia (Coronavirus Disease 2019) Temporary Standing Orders 2020.

 

We now continue with the debate.

 

Mr Mundubile (Mporokoso): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate this very important subject.

 

Mr Speaker, as I debate the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, I wish to discuss the issue of consensus. In discussing consensus, I will talk about constitutional principles which are immutable in constitution-making, and these include, transparency, dialogue, accountability and legal framework, among others. This is the journey that this particular Bill has travelled.

 

Mr Speaker, there has been a lot of debate and discussion regarding consensus. The question is, what type of consensus are we referring to? Is it partisan, elitist or general consensus?  I wish to submit to this House that the consensus that is required in constitution-making is general consensus from the general citizenry.

 

Sir, many a time, we have heard arguments on account of the fact that, maybe, one or two stakeholders decided to stay away from participating and that was taken as lack of consensus.

 

Mr Speaker, on account of time, let me zero in on this particular case. The Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 has been through the process. When we talk about consensus, we talk about the Siavonga meeting that happened amongst political parties. We talk about the stakeholders meeting that happened at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre (MICC). We talk about the National Dialogue Forum (NDF) that happened at MICC. We talk about the many meetings that were held at the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) with political party presidents, including the president of the United Party for National Development (UPND). So, when we hear people say that there has been no consensus in this process, we wonder because a platform was provided for stakeholders to come and submit.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to say that a Bill is a mere proposal. How was the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 generated? It was generated by submissions from various stakeholders sitting, at MICC. The proceedings of that particular meeting were beamed live.  So, nobody can come round and claim that he/she did not know or understand what was happening.

 

Mr Speaker, the youth of this country came to the NDF and made their submissions. Persons living with disabilities came and made their submissions. The Bank of Zambia (BOZ) and the Judiciary, among others, also came and made their submissions. So, these constituent submissions make up the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. Therefore, I wish to submit that there has been a lot of consensus surrounding the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019.

 

Mr Speaker, let me address myself to constitutional principles. In jurisdictions where there is mistrust, there are what we call constitutional agreements. These are agreements which are made outside Parliament to take care of minority interests. The meetings I have referred to spoke to constitutional agreements, in this particular case. In short, stakeholders sat outside Parliament to agree on the form and complexion that this Constitution was to take so that those who had no representation in Parliament, like certain political parties, also had an opportunity to submit. It is very surprising, therefore, when we hear certain political party leaders refer to the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 as being poisonous.

 

Mr Speaker, is it poisonous when it proposes to increase the number of women in Parliament? Is it poisonous when it proposes to include the marginalised, like people living with disabilities? Is it poisonous when it proposes delimitation for the people of Chilubi who have been crying that the Constituency is too big and, therefore, there is a need for its delimitation? Is it poisonous when the Christians of this country rise and say that the Christian Nation provision should be enshrined in the Constitution? Maybe what is poisonous is that we are excluding gay rights. That is why it sounds poisonous. It is poisonous because we are excluding such foreign cultures.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mundubile: I do not understand how somebody can come up and say that this Bill is poisonous when we are talking about Christian values.

 

Mr Speaker, I wish to submit that those who make statements of that nature make them out of ignorance.

 

I submit, Sir.

 

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mr Sichalwe): Mr Speaker, I am aware that many of my colleagues have extensively debated this Bill, which I fully support. Therefore, I will not belabour some of the arguments which have already been advanced before the Floor of this House. In this regard, my focus of debate will be as follows:

 

Part XI – Local Government – System of Government – Repeal and Replacement of Article 153

 

Mr Speaker, Article 153(2)(c) of the Constitution of Zambia, provides as follows:

 

“(2)      A council shall consist of, among others, –

 

“(c)      not more than three chiefs representing chiefs in the district, elected by the chiefs in the district.”” 

 

Mr Speaker, currently, Article 153 of the Constitution does not provide any option for chiefs to be represented in a council by chiefs’ representatives. Now, in some regions of our country, chiefs do not sit in meetings with members of the public to debate because it is against the customs and traditions which are applicable to them. We also have chiefs who sit in more than one council, thereby, denying them the opportunity to participate in matters regarding the welfare of communities in a local authority.

 

Mr Speaker, I, therefore, support the proposed amendment of the Constitution by the repeal of Article 153(2)(c) and the substitution therefor, to include the following:

 

“(2)      A council shall consist of the following councillors:

           

“(c)      not more than three chiefs or three chief’s representatives in the district, elected by the chiefs in the district, except that where a district has three or fewer number of chiefs, each chief may nominate a representative;””

 

Sir, the proposed repeal and replacement of Article 153 is highlighted in detail in paragraph 52 of the Bill.

 

Part XII – Chieftaincy and House of Chiefs

 

Mr Speaker, on the repeal and replacement of Article 165, the Provision in the Constitution has made the institution of chieftaincy to be self regulatory. The article provides:

 

“(2)      Parliament shall not enact legislation which –

 

1. confers on a person or authority the right to recognise or withdraw the

recognition of a chief;

      b. derogates from the honour and dignity of the institution of chieftaincy.”

 

Mr Speaker, the institution of chieftaincy is a very important part of governance that has existed from pre-colonial time and long before modern governance, and successive governments have ruled through this very important institution. Thus, the peace and tranquillity that we are enjoying currently is as a result of the good governance that is provided by chiefs.

 

Mr Speaker, the current Article 165 has been a subject of various interpretations with a number of chiefdoms indicating that they exist, based on their own culture, customs and traditions. The House may wish to note that an institution which is self-regulatory implies that there are no checks and balances on it and has been left to its own devices. In the meantime, public financial resources are expended on the institution of chieftaincy such as chiefs’ welfare and resolution of succession disputes.

 

Mr Speaker, further, Article 165 in its current form has been interpreted by some sections of our society to mean that they can establish their own chiefdoms which are separate from the existing ones. In addition, some have been demanding for the resuscitation of chiefdoms which were abolished by the colonial Government for various reasons.

 

Mr Speaker, the creation of new chiefdoms, resuscitation of abolished chiefdoms and calls to have the existing chiefdoms split, has the potential to bring about instability in chiefdoms in particular and the whole country in general. That is because this entails redefining the existing chiefdom boundary maps.

 

Mr Speaker, the current Article 165 has also seen an increase in the number of succession disputes which has brought about instability in some chiefdoms and, ultimately, adversely affected development. It is against this background that I consider it imperative to have the institution of chieftaincy regulated in one way or the other, lest it goes into extinction.

 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I want to emphasise that the institution of chieftaincy in Zambia should remain relevant to the modern governance system as well as work towards meeting the aspirations and needs of the people in chiefdoms. This is in view of the fact that the institution of chieftaincy exists within the context of the State.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Kopulande (Chembe): Mr Speaker, today, we have come to this House to conclude a long journey upon which we have been traversing for a while. This journey has demonstrated the nature of the society that we have created through the political systems that we have built. It has also demonstrated the strengths, weaknesses and dangers that the systems that we have built have put on the heads of our people. Today, we have come here to deal with a situation where innuendos have been left with the freedom to rule and to determine opinion and direction of a country. This, we must move away from.

 

Mr Speaker, I, therefore, want to debate this Bill on the question: “Bill 10, what is wrong?”

 

Mr Speaker, when this Bill was brought to the House, indeed, there were a number of controversial issues. Since this Bill was like any other Bill, it has been taken through the normal Parliamentary law-making process, which includes the Committee and interaction with the public. Mr Speaker, the Select Committee that you composed called and sat with witnesses in twenty-six unprecedented meetings. When normally a Select Committee would meet for ten days, it sat for twenty-six days.

 

Mr Speaker, all the issues of contention in the original Bill were addressed by the Select Committee. They were read and examined by the Cabinet and the Cabinet responded through Gazette Notice No. 534 of 12^th June, 2020.

 

Sir, controversial issues such as the amendment of Article 63 to remove Parliament from approving debt and international agreements have been removed through the Gazette Notice earlier referred to. Clause 30 which sought to create a coalition Government has been removed. Clause 38 which sought to reintroduce the position of Deputy Minister was removed. Clause 67 which sought to repeal Article No. 188 to remove the requirement to keep a retired employee on the payroll until all terminal benefits have been paid has been removed. The Government of the people of the Republic of Zambia has responded positively. Clause 71 which sought to amend Article 213 by redefining the functions of the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) has also been removed. Those were the issues upon which there were contentions. Those were the issues upon which we differed and this Government has responded in accordance with the wishes of the people.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kopulande: Mr Speaker, where then is the issue? Where is the question? If people tell me that the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 is a bad Bill, I can tell that this Bill is simply a container. They will have to tell me what it is in that Bill that they are opposed to so that it can be addressed through the normal Parliamentary process. This is how we make laws in this country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kopulande: This is how we have always made laws. Unless they want to introduce new draconian ways of making laws in their bedrooms, there is no space in this Republic to make laws in that manner. We make laws on the Floor of this House and this is why our people sent us here.

 

Mr Speaker, this Bill has introduced a revolutionary system of representation of our people. Our women, youths and people with disabilities will be directly represented in this House. Yesterday, we had people posturing to speak on behalf of the youths –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Mecha (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving the voice of Chifunabuli an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019.

 

Sir, right from the outset, I wish to make two important clarifications. The first clarification has to do with building consensus. I think this has been one of the most contentious issues, especially from the perspective of the civil society. They have actually misled the people of Zambia regarding the building of consensus around the Constitution-making process.

 

Mr Speaker, what the people of Zambia need to know is that there is no end-point to building consensus other than the point at which the President will assent to the Bill. Therefore, the process of consensus building will continue until the President assents to the Bill. That is the bottom line.

 

Sir, secondly, the people of Zambia must know that the Bill we are considering today is the original Bill and not any other Bill. It is the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. We are, therefore, not going to misinform the people of Zambia by saying that some of the clauses have been removed. None of the clauses have been removed but we are basically just following the process of screening the Bill. Mr Speaker, you started it yourself by appointing a Select Committee which solicited input from committed and patriotic Zambians. This is how come they came up with a report which has evidence-based recommendations. I think that is where serious problems have emerged from.

 

Sir, people cannot believe that Parliament can come up with such serious recommendations. I think we must pat ourselves on the back. This is why the position of the Government has been described to be a sinful position because there is an issue of mistrust. People have been arguing to say, “Will the Government really consider these concerns and recommendations that came from serious Zambian stakeholders?” The Government assured the people of Zambia that indeed, those progressive recommendations will be taken on board.

 

Mr Speaker, to try and allay those mistrusts, the Government took a step to push some of the intentions into a Gazette Notice, which was published on 12^th June. That is another sin the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has committed because it has demonstrated high level of transparency which is unprecedented. All this is done in an effort to allay the fears of mistrust. This is where Zambians really need to be careful and know who to trust because some sections of society of Zambia are saying that the move taken by the hon. Minister of Justice was illegal. They are saying that he should not have actually publicised that in the Gazette Notice. Again, the people of Zambia are asking which law has been breached. We are still waiting for answers from the opponents of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. We are waiting for those answers.

 

Sir, this culture of misinformation is what is likely to polarise this nation, if we are not careful. I say so because most people are not privy to the contents of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. They are not even privy to the contents of the Select Committee Report or the contents of the Gazette Notice of 12^th June, which was advanced by the Secretary to Cabinet. People are trying to take advantage of that to further mislead the people of Zambia, and we are saying no to that. In essence, what the hon. Minister of Justice did during the previous sitting was to try and pre-empt the debate and assure the people of Zambia that indeed, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was going to take into consideration, all the concerns that he had raised especially, those concerns which were addressed in the Parliamentary Select Committee.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for allowing me to contribute to the debate on this progressive Bill. I am so happy today. Allow me to thank His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, for being very transparent on this matter.

 

Mr Speaker, the President has been accused of a lot of issues on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. Today, I was listening to a president of a political party, Dr Nevers Mumba, and he was saying –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon, Member for Chitambo, you know that our tradition is to avoid referring to people who will not be able to respond to whatever you are saying.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that guidance.

 

Sir, I was saying that, a president of a certain political party was today addressing the media. He said that by allowing the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 to pass, we are prolonging the stay of the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, in State House. The problem I have is that whether there is the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 or not, the President will still be in State House for another five years. They should stop misleading Zambians that the Patriotic Front (PF), as a party, has put all its eggs in the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019.

 

Sir, as we go towards 2021, the people of Zambia have come to realise that the Opposition are such a people who tell lies during the day ...

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, withdraw the word ‘lies’.

 

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘lies’ and replace it with ‘untruth’ or ‘falsehood’.

 

Sir, if you recall, we had the Bill of Rights. The people of Zambia wanted it like yesterday. They went out to campaign and de-campaign the Bill of Rights but it could not be passed in this House. Where are we today? The people of Zambia are now regretting, and to be honest, they have come to realise that trusting the Opposition is suicidal.

 

Sir, if you have observed all the by-elections we have been having, the people of Zambia have been voting for the PF because they know that PF means well for this country. By bringing the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 to this House, it means that us, as PF, want to wash our hands of it. We also want the show the world and Zambia that we mean well for them. It is the other leaders, who are actually supposed to be our partners in development, who have denied them the Bill that they desire.

 

Mr Speaker, the same people who are criticising this Bill are the ones who are going out there saying that they want delimitation of their constituencies. They are feeling the heat of their constituencies. Why can they not just come out in the open and say that they support this Bill so that their constituencies can be delimitated. There shall never be another way of delimitating these constituencies. The truth is well-known to them that without the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, their constituencies will remain the same. I must state here that most of us shall face heavy challenges because of having one single constituency where we are supposed to have two.

 

Sir, when we came to this House we were told that the turnover of Parliament is 60 per cent. By us increasing constituencies, we shall save a number of some of the hon. Members who are going to be out in 2021, especially those from the United Party for National Development (UPND).

 

Sir, allow me to say that the people of Zambia are watching and they know that the PF mean well on this Bill. Should it fail to pass, they will know that we have washed our hands of it and that we brought this Bill in this House in good faith.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

 The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to add my voice in support of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. I want to start by saying that the impression that is being created in Zambia is that a Constitution is a static document. I want to submit this afternoon that a Constitution is a moving document. Once you realise that there are certain issues that are creating a problem in a country or our society, it is only proper that the parties that are involved in the process of Constitution-making, sit down and make the necessary changes.

 

Mr Speaker, if you recall in 2016, we had many problems including defining fourteen days. There was a misunderstanding whether it was fourteen working days or fourteen ordinary days. Here is a Government that addressed that issue, and then you have the people who claim to be ‘the Government in waiting’ who stood up and said that this is wrong. How can you be a Government in waiting when you do not even know what you need to do to make it possible for the people of Zambia not to create a situation that can cause anarchy in the country?

 

Mr Speaker, I also want to state that, I am of the people who belong to the marginalised society called women. Starting from the pre-independence era, the people who made it possible for the independence of Zambia to happen were the women. However, where are we in terms of governance and positions of decision-making? We are not there. Here is, for the first time, a Government that says it would like to make sure that the women are also properly represented according to the protocols that we have signed, which is the Southern African Development Community (SADC) and African Union (AU) protocols that provide for women’s participation in positions of decision-making.

 

Sir, it is surprising again, that those who claim to be ‘Government in waiting’ can come to this House and mop up all their people and keep them outside Parliament yet send their captain to be counting the number of people who are seated in Parliament .

 

Mr Speaker, one of the things that people really celebrated during the time of President Kaunda was the fact that he identified one of our people, who is also marginalised, and appointed him as a minister. Here is a Government that says, let us continue with that legacy and even do better.  Instead of having one person, we would like to have people who are living with disabilities being properly represented.  

 

Sir, I feel for the young people right now. There was a man in this House who called himself youth and he is not here. A youth is a person between 18 to 35 years. He is not here to speak for the youths because the Constitution has provided for the youths to be represented in this Parliament. I think we cannot continue with double standards. We cannot have people baipika baipula nokuipula; meaning that they cook themselves, turn themselves on whilst in the pot, and want to pretend that they are part of this governance system.

 

Mr Speaker, being in the Opposition does not mean to oppose even things that are progressive. I also want to say that in this country, we have misunderstood two things; democracy which is being abused to the hilt, and human rights. These two issues are being abused to the hilt. The way we should define human rights is to know where everybody’s rights begin, where they end, and how they interface with other people. So, let us not come to this House and pretend that we are promoting human rights when we cannot even speak for the women and marginalised people who are living with disabilities. We cannot speak for the young people in earnest but we pretend when the time suits us.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to conclude by the fact that those of us who are in the Government right now, feel the pinch of what it means to change a Constitution for the common good. This morning there was somebody who was debating on radio from Munali Constituency. He/she actually said the following, and I quote:

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Minister’s time expired.

 

Mr Siwanzi (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving the voice of Nakonde the opportunity to debate this Bill.

 

Sir, today, the youths of this country will know whether the leaders they elected are in this House to represent them or to represent their own interests or the interests of an individual. This Bill seeks to introduce proportional representation where youths will be provided with special seats so that their voice can be heard in this House. So, the leaders who are standing on the way of this important Bill are denying the youths of this country that opportunity. Today, the youths will see for themselves as these ‘hypocrites’ return to their constituencies.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, withdraw the word ‘hypocrites’.

 

Mr Siwanzi: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘hypocrites’.

 

Sir, these pretenders and self-centred people, who come to this Parliament every five years, go and buy posh cars and return to the people and lie that they are here to represent them.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Siwanzi: Mr Speaker, my constituency, Nakonde, has thirteen wards. When we receive the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), we have a challenge of how to distribute this fund amongst the wards. The Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 seeks to allow the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) to delimitate our constituencies so that this fund can probably double or triple to enable us sort out most of the problems that we face in our constituencies. These self-centred leaders, whose seats today are empty and are here to represent themselves, are denying our people the opportunity to develop our constituencies.

 

Sir, it is sad that they have even failed to represent themselves. In 2016, we saw them at the Constitutional Court with suitcases of what was perceived to be evidence. When they were told that the period had lapsed to provide whatever evidence they had about the election which they alleged had been rigged, they cried foul. However, today, they are denying this Bill that seeks to introduce a well-stipulated time frame to hear a Presidential Petition. Next year, I believe they are going to lose and they will once more go back to the Constitutional Court.

 

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr S. Banda (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing the voice of Kasenengwa to debate this very important Bill.

 

Sir, I would like to underscore that this Bill has been through the mill. It has been refined and has exceeded constitutional and moral expectation.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me to underscore that when our hon. Colleagues hear about the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 of 2019, what rings in their minds is the 12^th August, 2021, but the consequence of this Bill goes beyond that. It ensures that the future of Zambia is, and shall be as expected so that we secure the lives of our children.

 

Sir, as I debate this Bill, I will not dwell on its content. Truth be told, the issue of content has been dealt with and my colleagues have highlighted the clauses that are very progressive and will ensure that Zambia grows in the right trajectory.

 

Mr Speaker, indeed, what ought to have been done more than what has been done as it relates to the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019? Article 79 of the Constitution is very clear on how the amendments ought to be done. The Constitution is very clear on that score but we realised that stakeholders called for consensus building. Morally, that was given against the background that actually, the amendments could have been done through the provision of Article 79 of the Constitution. That said, various vehicles were provided to ensure that there was consensus building vis-a-vis the Siavonga Resolution, a consultative meeting for political party presidents, and, indeed, the National Dialogue Forum (NDF) which provided for a wider consultation. So, all the processes were followed.

 

Sir, after the Bill was brought to the Floor of this House, it was referred to a Select Committee, where it was again subjected to further investigation. Various people from various walks of life came and subjected this Bill to that but what did we see? Our friends evolved, like in the stone age and Zinjanthropus era. The first thing they talked about was consensus building. They evolved from consensus building to contentious clauses to trust issues and to the lapsing of the Bill. They evolved and went to the courts. They are not here and cannot debate.

 

Mr Speaker, at this point, the debate has nothing to do with the content. Our friends are merely politicking. By now, they would have come in this House to tell the Zambians what is wrong with the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. It is their constitutional responsibility to do so, but where are they? They are out there. If our hon. Colleagues had a bit of conscious as little as this, they should have been in this House. They should have been honourable enough to debate this matter and tell the Zambians what is wrong about this Bill, but they do not have answers. As such, the ramifications of them not participating will be far-reaching.

 

Sir, as I end, I support this Bill. I believe our hon. Colleagues will come in this House and support this Bill, without which, they will have nothing to say tomorrow when people ask them what they did when this opportunity came.

 

With those few remarks, I support the Bill.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

The Minister for Eastern Province (Mr M. Zulu): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this golden opportunity to lay bare the truth about the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, and what it seeks to achieve.

 

Sir, the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 does not, in the first place, seek to perpetuate the stay of the Patriotic Front (PF) in Government. It seeks to refine the lacunas that exist in the current Constitution and some of these include the outcry by the United Party for National Development (UPND) that fourteen days of hearing an appeal was not enough. It seeks to extend and improve the representation of people who are differently abled and are marginalised such as the women and the youths. This has been the outcry out there.

 

Mr Speaker, picking it up from where the hon. Member for Chembe left off, yesterday, some people purported to represent the youths or to speak out for them, and this would have been a golden opportunity for the youths to be able to air their views. This would have been an opportunity for them to advocate for better representation of the youths so that they can come to this House to speak out as to what they exactly hope to see in this country.

 

Sir, a larger percentage of the population in this country is that of youths and this percentage of youths seeks to have better representation. We need to get rid of the olden kind of representation where only those with money were able to make it because they would fund their way through the campaigns. Firstly, Women have been marginalised because of their sex and secondly, they have not had resources for campaigning. Even when they campaign, they do not have sufficient resources to extend their campaigns to far-reaching places where men who are well off are able to reach. However, the people of Zambia will have an opportunity to get better representation.

 

This is a day of reckoning as to who has the best interest of the people of Zambia. We do recall that in 2016, when we sort to have better representation of people and enhance the rights of the people of Zambia, the United Party for National Development (UPND) went out there and told the people that the Referendum was bad. However, the Referendum was going to provide an opportunity where development was going to be a rights-based approach. People were going to have a right to education and to take the Government to task if it did not provide proper education. People were going to treat health as a right and were going to take the Government to task if that right to health was not taken care of. Alas, they were misinformed by the mischievous Opposition party that thought would form Government –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The word ‘mischievous’ is unparliamentary.

 

Mr M. Zulu: They were misinformed by an Opposition party that refuses to take responsibility and thought if, by any stroke of luck, it formed Government, it will not want to shoulder the responsibility that, us, as Patriotic Front (PF), are willing to shoulder, and that is a rights-based approach towards development. We are not doing the people of Zambia a favour by constructing roads, schools, hospitals and all the amenities, but it is their right that they should have those things and we want that right to be safeguarded in the Constitution.

 

Mr Speaker, as I earlier stated, this is a day of reckoning and the people of Zambia will know who has their best interest at heart. It is not whether or not this Bill will pass the second reading, or who wins or loses in this case. The winners and the real losers in this case will be the people of Zambia because they would have been denied an opportunity to have a better Constitution that responds to their aspirations.

 

Sir, consensus does not mean that everybody has to agree. It just means that we all have to come to a sense that we need these changes and that they are necessary, if at all we are going to develop Zambia and take it to higher heights. That is what, us, as PF, have undertaken to do and what President Edgar Chagwa Lungu wants for the people of Zambia. The Constitution is the lifeblood of this nation and we shall deliver it to our people.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this very important Bill.

 

Sir, my colleagues made comments regarding the delimitation of constituencies. However, we have heard arguments that delimitation can still be done even without amending the current Constitution.

 

Mr Speaker, Article 58(5) of the Constitution provides for delimitation and states that:

 

“The Electoral Commission shall, at intervals of not more than ten years, review the names and boundaries of constituencies and wards.”

 

Sir, what this simply entails is that every time the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) wants to review constituencies as provided for in the Constitution, it will have to refer to the Constitution. We have been saying that the Constitution must not be tempered with so often. So, whilst there is this provision, the lacuna we need to deal with in this case is Article 68(2) of the Constitution which says that:

 

“The National Assembly shall consist of –

 

1. one hundred and fifty-six members directly elected on the basis of a simple majority vote under the first-past-the-post system.”

 

Mr Speaker, I have heard even learned hon. Members in this House mislead the public that even without dealing with this, we can still delimitate the constituencies. The ECZ has done a lot of work to try and ensure that it delimitates vast constituencies. Those of us, who come from rural constituencies, both on the right or left, will tell you that it is a tall order to serve our people effectively because of the size of our constituencies. The people of Zambia must know that us, on the right side, mean well because we want to take services to them as close as we can. That is why we created districts so that people can access Government services. So, denying the people this opportunity will be an injustice to them.

 

Mr Speaker, my colleague, the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, talked about the wrangles in chiefdoms. The Ministry of Home Affairs is besieged with so many complaints of people killing and hacking each other in chiefdoms. The traditional royal highnesses wanted to identify themselves through the family tree of a respective chiefdom.  So, they proposed that to the Government and we agreed. However, they have also realised that without recognition from the Government, it would be very difficult for them to sustain their chiefdoms. If a chief tells the police that there is an imposter in the chiefdom, how would we distinguish an imposter from the one who is the right heir to the throne when there is no Government gazette which gives authority to a recognised chief?

 

Sir, that is not to say that the Government should play a role in recognising who becomes a chief, but through the House of Chiefs, it must verify who indeed is the right heir to the throne and should recognise him/her. In any case, how is the hon. Minister of Finance going to pay someone who is not recognised? So, there is a lot of chaos in the chiefdoms and we are trying to help the chiefs address this issue. We have had engagements with their royal highnesses who petitioned the Government to revisit that Article so that we include the component to recognise those who identify themselves as traditional leaders, and that is what we are trying to deal with.

 

Mr Speaker, I would like to tell the chiefs that if this does not pass, us, on the right side, have done our part. They should know who to blame. The hon. Members of Parliament on the left equally come from chiefdoms. I heard one chief pleading with the hon. Member of Parliament in his area to support this amendment. I would like to inform the people of Zambia that we mean well but should this Bill fail to pass, they should not blame it on us. We have done our part.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister for Copperbelt Province (Mr Mwakalombe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving the people of Chongwe Constituency and the Copperbelt Province, an opportunity to submit what the Zambians desires. The people of Zambia have deliberated on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. As the Government, we are just carriers of a message of the people of Zambia about what they want to see.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwakalombe: Mr Speaker, this party was elected on the premise that it was going to listen to the people of Zambia and fulfil their wishes. Today, we still stand together with the people of this country that the Bill of Rights is the right of our citizens and the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 speak about our conscious and ethnicity. This is because the clergy and the Church submitted that they want Zambia to be a Christian nation and they want that component to be included in the Constitution.

 

However, our hon. Colleagues on the other side are saying that they do not want to see this element in the Constitution. This is because they believe that there is too much money that will come to them through the support of gay rights. I think that is the reason they are at a crossroad.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwakalombe: They are at a crossroad because we are all going to campaign in 2021 and obviously, money has to flow. Here on the right, we had an opportunity to choose between money and the people but we decided to choose the people of Zambia. We decided that we are going to feed on the little we have as a nation and we are not going to die because God has blessed us.

 

Mr Speaker, the Bill talks about delimitation. Chongwe has nineteen wards. When I receive the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) amounting to K1.6 million, I remove 5 per cent of it which is K80,000 and this money is meant for a ward. That becomes impossible for me to deliver what the people of Chongwe expect through the CDF. The people of Chongwe have been given an opportunity to have three constituencies so that they can receive enough money which is going to help them meet their expectations. However, today, our hon. Colleagues on the left have decided to make them continue to suffer.

 

Mr Speaker, us, on the right, and the Zambian people campaigned for the Bill of Rights, but our hon. Colleagues on the left stopped it because they did not want that pregnant woman to be exempted from going to jail.

 

Mr Speaker, this matter is not about winning and passing the Bill today, it is about doing the will of our people. The Patriotic Front (PF) has chosen to stand with its people, but our hon. Colleagues have chosen to stand with their masters. Next year, 2021, the people with disabilities, our youths and our women will vote in numbers. Days are numbered. The day of reckoning is coming. On that day, our hon. Colleagues on the left should be mindful that they are going to get zero votes.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing the voice of Chama South to contribute to the debate on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me to give a background of how this House makes laws. When the Executive wing of the Government sponsors a Bill to Parliament, Committees are constituted. In this case, the Hon. Mr Speaker constituted the Select Committee to look at this Bill. The Opposition, particularly the United Party for National Development (UPND) argued that it needed consensus before it could support the Bill. The Government went ahead and came up with a legitimate forum, the National Dialogue Forum (NDF), where all stakeholders convened to look at the Bill. This idea was not in the Constitution, but our working Government came up with an Act to ensure that the agreement that came out of the National Dialogue Forum would be legally binding. The UPND hon. Members decided to abscond from this important consultative forum. Zambians should judge them based on their actions. They absconded.

 

Mr Speaker, your Committee came up with recommendations, which looked at all the issues which the UPND raised. I know that the hon. Chief Whip outlined these recommendations, and I will repeat them. Among many other issues which the UPND raised, the introduction of the position of Deputy Ministers and that of retirees being paid promptly and not being retained on the payroll, were also looked at.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government went further and assured the people of this country that all the concerns that the people, including the UPND hon. Members, raised were looked into and considered. The hon. Minister of Justice gazetted those concerns through a gazette notice and assured the people of Zambia that the Government had taken their concerns into account.

 

Mr Speaker, we expected the hon. Members of the UPND to be in this House to debate issues or object to issues which they do not want in the Constitution so that the people of Zambia out there can hear them, but what have they done? They have run away. So, I urge the people of Zambia to realise that this political party, UPND, does not mean well for them. If it meant well, its hon. Members would have been here to argue and thereafter, vote against the Bill. The fact that they have run away completely shows that they have nothing to tell the people of Zambia. No wonder they fought the enhanced Bill of Rights in the 2016 General Elections. If anything, that Bill of Rights could be the basis on which the people of Zambia reject the UPND. They have stayed away from debating the Bill that is meant to empower the youths. I assure the people of Chama or Muchinga that the UPND does not want the constituencies to be delimitated.

 

Mr Speaker, due to time constraint, let me state that I support this Bill and will work to ensure that the UPND is completely removed from the political landscape.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019.

 

Mr Speaker, I have heard a lot of speculations, untruths and stories from my hon. Colleagues in the United Party for National Development (UPND). They have told the people of Zambia things that are not even contained in the Bill. Today, I want to state that this is not about whether the Bill will go through or not, it is about what the people of Zambia wanted. I remember very well as one of the lawyers who were in the Constitutional Court during the Presidential petition, that there is a politician who cried like a small boy saying that the fourteen days period within which to petition a Presidential election result was not enough. As the Government, we said that let us give him thirty days in the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. Again, he says that this Bill is poisonous; it is like adding sugar to poison. I recall very well that two weeks ago, an hon. Member of Parliament here, who belongs to some red ants was complaining –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Deputy Chief Whip, according to my records, I do not think there is any honourable person who belongs to some red ants.

 

Laughter 

 

Mr Speaker: Withdraw that statement.

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the term ‘red ants’. It is commonly known as red devils, but I will say some political party that I do not want to mention –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, resume your seat. These political groupings are officially designated. If there are other terminologies which have been ascribed to whoever, they should not be used here. Outside this House, you have the freedom and you can even use 101 descriptions. In any case, as a Whip in this House, you are supposed to be helping me enforce what I am doing. Now I have to counsel you, my ally in maintaining discipline!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Please, continue.

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

 

Sir, allow me to say that I heard a UPND hon. Member of Parliament complaining that there are too many court cases involving chiefdoms and that there are some chiefdoms which do not have chiefs. In some instances, the case would still be in court after ten years. He was saying that he would like the House of Chiefs to be the correct institution to deal with matters of chiefs. That is exactly what we have said in the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019.

 

Mr Speaker, I am also aware that the debate surrounding the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, has been highly politicised. As a result, the people of Zambia do not know exactly what is in the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. The truth about how the Bill came about is well known. The people of Zambia who complained that the 2016 Constitution had a lot of problems, and wanted these to be resolved wholesomely, are the ones who will be losing if today, the Constitution (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 does not go through.

 

However, I can assure somebody that even if today they force the Bill not to go through, nothing will change. The Patriotic Front (PF) will remain in power and as far as we are concerned, the fear that they have, that their person will not be allowed to stand in the next general elections is neither here nor there. This is because whether he stands or not, he will lose again next year.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: Sir, we will inform the people of Zambia that the same people who shot down the Bill of Rights have again shot down the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. We also heard several people who actually come here ignorantly – ooh! not ignorantly, sorry, Mr Speaker – who came here forgetting that they are the ones who caused a certain situation. They have cried and said that this Government is not protecting human rights. They have complained about the Bill of Rights, Public Order Act and so on and so forth.

 

Mr Speaker, we have heard all those cries and if anybody reads through the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, they will find that this Bill was going to change the landscape of this country. Our laws would have been enhanced and our people would have actually been guaranteed of certain rights.

 

Sir, today as we speak, there is nothing in the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 that says that the President wants to prolong his stay in State House. There is nothing which says that if this Bill goes through, the elderly people – and they have gone around telling lies to people –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Withdraw the word ‘lies’.

 

Mr Ngulube: Sorry, not telling lies, but they have been misleading people that the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 is bad. I want to repeat that this Bill is a golden opportunity for the people of Zambia. As PF and as the Government, this creates an opportunity for us to go and campaign properly in 202, whether the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 goes through today or not. We are going to make sure that we create a platform for someone to get zero votes. This is because many youths who would have come to this House, if the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, goes through, would have lost that opportunity, if it does not. Many women who cry that their representation in this House is below 50 per cent would have lost. Many retirees would have also lost. Even the chiefs in their chiefdoms, as we go towards the 2021 General Elections, must remember who has made their situation worse than it is right now.

 

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, allow me to thank all the brave hon. Members of Parliament of the PF who have come to this House because this is where the debate happens. All those who have actually abducted people or kept them in hiding so that they do not vote on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, must ask themselves whether abducting an hon. Member of Parliament is not as bad as abducting a police officer.

 

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I want to thank you and say we will meet in 2021 on the ballot.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: I have been notified that the hon. Minister for the Northern Province wanted to debate, but he is seemingly absent.

 

The Minister of Tourism and Arts (Mr Chitotela): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. Looking at the section where the Opposition sits makes my heart bleed and I shudder to wonder why Zambia is not developed. It is because we do not put the interest of the nation first. You cannot have a situation whereby somebody stands and says, “It is my way or there is no way.” That is not leadership. You cannot hold elected hon. Members of Parliament at ransom and gag them from representing the people who sent them to Parliament.

 

Sir, I cry for the people of Kasempa. My wife comes from the North-Western Province. I cry for the people of Mwinilunga, who would have sent their hon. Member of Parliament to come and debate and push that the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 goes through so that Mwinilunga can have three constituencies. I cry for the people of Mufumbwe. You cannot imagine one hon. Member of Parliament managing a constituency that stretches as far as Kaminsekenseke to Kashimaweti. Yet the hon. Member of Parliament chooses to abandon the civic responsibility that the people have sent him here for.

 

Mr Speaker, I cry for the chiefs of Zambia because the institution of chieftainship is on the blink of obsoleteness, and then tomorrow some people will go to the chiefdoms and begin campaigning that they want to be hon. Members of Parliament. Their leader said, “Delimitation can only happen if I am President.” Where is that written? Is it the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 that is going to make him President? Wait, we shall meet on the ground. We will tell the people of Zambia the truth. What kind of selfishness is this?

 

Sir, I cry for the church. However, tomorrow some people will go to the church, after they have refused Zambia to be recognised as a Christian nation in the Constitution, and ask pastors to stand for them in church? It is a shame!

 

Mr Speaker, I cry for the youths of Zambia who have been crying to come to Parliament. In Bemba we say ‘ala umuchele ukufina bomfwa ku uwusendele’. The only ones who can feel what the youths are going through are the youths themselves. President Lungu said, “Alright, I have heard your cry. We shall create seats for the youths so that they can be in Parliament and speak for themselves.” However, today somebody is saying, “I do not care for the youths” but tomorrow will they go to the colleges and universities to campaign among the youths?

 

Sir, I cry for the women of Zambia. They have been crying that they have had low representation in Parliament and President Lungu says, “Alright, I hear you. I will give you the opportunity to be represented by yourselves in Parliament without competition.” Alas, one political leader stands up and says, “No, without me, there will never be all those good progressive Bills passing. All the hon. Members of Parliament standing on the political party where I have been given a mandate as a leader will not participate and they will not vote.” Surely, as people of Zambia, if such people go to them tomorrow, will they give them a platform from which to campaign?

 

Mr Speaker, we shall meet on the ground in 2021. We shall go to the chiefdoms where we belong and we shall tell the people the truth. We shall speak to our chiefs. We belong to the churches and we shall speak to the church leadership and tell them that they do not need such people to go even closer to the leadership because they cannot be trusted. These are the people who are serving their own personal interest. They have maybe been paid as we have heard. Maybe it is because there are some international forces that are pushing a foreign agenda for Zambia. Maybe they have been promised some money and have been told, “If you do this, you shall get this,” but it is not money that votes. It is the people of Zambia. We want to appeal to the people of Zambia that with or without the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, President Lungu after 12^th August, 2021, will still be the President of Zambia. We shall go out there and campaign among the people of Zambia.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chitotela: With or without the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, we shall tell the youths that we meant well for them, but there is a certain group of people or cult that does not want them to come to Parliament. There is a cult that is stopping women from coming to Parliament. It will be up to the women and youths of Zambia to make a decision.

 

Mr Speaker, I support this Bill 100 per cent.

 

I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister of Local Government (Dr Banda): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this debate on the Constitution (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. From the outset, I would like to say that I support the Bill and the Motion on the Floor.

 

Mr Speaker, time and again, I wonder whether or not we do understand what politics is. So, I want to be a bit philosophical about politics and the law. I say this because the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, as far as I am concerned, is not about party or political popularity. It is not even about settling scores, but building bridges for the future.

 

Mr Speaker, when President Edgar Chagwa Lungu won the presidency in 2016, the Opposition United Party for National Development (UPND) members said they were not sure he would append his signature to the new Constitution. We told them that there were lacunas in the Constitution, but they argued and said that we were giving excuses for President Edgar Chagwa Lungu not to append his signature to it. They deliberately paid a blind eye to the lacunas in that Constitution until President Lungu told the nation that he was going to append his signature to show that he meant well. This was the reason the Constitution was signed in a public place, the National Heroes’ Stadium.

 

Sir, the President did not miss his words. He made it very clear that he was going to sign the Constitution, but reminded us that there were lacunas which we would need to cure later on. This is the opportunity that we have to cure the lacunas in the Constitution.

 

Mr Speaker, here is the background to why we are in this House. It is not a new phenomenon for people to meet to make laws. These are things that have happened from the ancient times of Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, including the Acceferous rule of ancient Africa where people ruled by consensus.

 

Sir, in Greek city-states, people used to meet under trees. All the citizens in the city used to meet to seek consensus because the populations were small. However, currently, because populations are big and we are in millions, we select a few people to represent the rest. This means that all of us in this House today represent 17 million Zambians who are supposed to sit in this House to make laws, instead of running away from debate.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Banda: Mr Speaker, this is a representative democracy. Politics is about agreeing, disagreeing and reconciling. It is a market place where people choose what they want to buy. Our learned colleagues know that we are not in a state of nature where people do anything anyhow and there is nothing wrong about it. However, upon realising that there is right and wrong, we all surrendered our rights to what we call the law, today. The law was then transformed into a Constitution to guide us on how we are to live. That is why we sit in this House.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Banda: However, we now want to debate the law and people out there want to listen to politicians debate politics, but the politicians who are supposed to debate politics have decided to stay away from the House of politics. What a shame, Mr Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Shame!

 

Dr Banda: Sir, the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 has good intentions for the people of Zambia. It would have been important for all of us to sit here to disagree, agree, reconcile and move forward. We are supposed to be focusing on posterity. How is posterity going to judge us in future? Are we going to be happy to be labelled as selfish individuals?

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister of General Education (Dr Wanchinga): Mr Speaker, I stand to support this Bill with a very heavy heart because the Bill we are debating, whose value is self-evident to the people of Zambia, has been transformed into a political war. Although those who are against this Bill are not against its content, they have seized this debate around it to look for an opportunity to dent the good works of the ruling Patriotic Front (PF). They are looking for an opportunity to embarrass the Government and create political mileage. It makes me sad that we have to spend so much time justifying a document whose value is self-evident.

 

Sir, there is also an element of ignorance around this debate because one of the principal arguments advanced by the people against the Bill is that there has not been sufficient consensus and consultation. However, this is incorrect and a sign of ignorance on the part of the people who are advancing that argument.

 

Mr Speaker, the American Constitution was drafted by one man named Thomas Jefferson. He drafted the American Constitution and later on became the third President of that country. Once he drafted it in his house, it was taken to institutions of the nature of this Parliament like the senate and congress to be debated and was agreed upon.

 

Sir, as has been mentioned by some colleagues, the Constitution is never static. We have heard of the first amendment, the second amendment and so on and so forth. Therefore, we can also have amendments. If anybody feels that the Constitution that we are debating will still have some lacunas, there will always be opportunities to make those changes as has been the case over the years. I am really saddened.

 

Mr Speaker, I have been reading a book on world constitutions, but I forgot to bring it to the House. When you look at the structure of various constitutions around the world and compare the kind of consultations they have to ours, you will see that our consultations around the document which we are debating today are far more elaborate than what takes place even in a number of advanced countries. I have the book called World Constitutions which I can share with the House. Therefore, trying to dramatise the process by claiming that there has not been adequate consultation is an excuse to find a platform to dent the image of the Government.

 

Mr Speaker, today, it is the will of the people which is on trial and not the Bill. Those who are going to frustrate the will of the people will one day stand in the court of public opinion to account for their actions.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Malanji): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Bill on the Floor of the House. This Government under President Edgar Chagwa Lungu and, of course, your good self in this House, have been very pragmatic in the implementation of legislative objectives. The people of Zambia, by history and instinct, are very good people. However, the kind of hate which is being preached now through social media is unbelievable.

 

Mr Speaker, the Opposition has today failed to live up to its perceived concern for the national treasury. I am saying so because in this Bill, is a provision which says that the electoral collage of Mayors and Council Chairpersons must change. This provision considers the cost implication of a whole district voting for a Mayor. Given a situation like Kitwe which has five constituencies, all those constituencies have to vote for a Mayor as opposed to the previous system where councillors would elect one amongst themselves.

 

Mr Speaker, at this point, we are supposed to draw a line of modus vivendi between the people on your left and on your right. We are voted to this House to interpret the law and to make the law. This is where we are supposed to argue what must or must not come into the Constitution. However, it is unfortunate that people will now put up a blatant lie to the public to say that this Constitution –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, withdraw the word “lie”.

 

Mr Malanji: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word “lie” and replace it with “misinformation.” They will misinform the public that this Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 is going to prolong the term of office for the President. Zambia is a country which is admired by people outside because of the kind of peace it has and its Constitution. However, the people of Zambia, in certain sectors, do not seem to appreciate this because their minds are preconceived with one person’s getting into State House.

 

Mr Speaker, I have been in politics for a while. I think I know the kind of situation which we have now. There are quite a number of hon. Members of Parliament from the Opposition who wanted to come and support this Bill. Unfortunately, they were abducted and threatened. This is the kind of situation where you say that the police are going beyond their limit. In the Powers and Privileges Act, Cap 12 of the Laws of Zambia, this is a very serious offence. We could have had a good number of colleagues who were determined to debate with us today, but by lunch time, they were pulled and bundled into cars to come to Parliament to just log-in and get out. We should give freedom to all individuals, including those that are in our parties. Even if we are heading the parties, we should give them freedom to determine what they think should be the Constitution that should lead the people of Zambia.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, you agree that we have had quite an extensive debate. So, I need now to begin winding down so that I may allow for proper conclusion of this Motion.

 

Therefore, I will take the last intervention and, beyond this list, please, do not bother to indicate because I will not acknowledge you, any way: the hon. Minister of Youth Sport and Child Development, the hon. Member for Serenje, the hon. Member for Mangango, the hon. Member for Muchinga, the hon. Member for Senga Hill and the hon. Member for Lubansenshi. That is the end, unless they have withdrawn. Anyway, I recorded them. If they have withdrawn their names, they will indicate. So, for avoidance of doubt, I will repeat the list.

 

The list was repeated.

 

 Mr Speaker: We have to allow for the conclusion of this Motion.

 

The Minister of Youth Sport and Child Development (Mr Mulenga):  Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for the opportunity that you have granted me to debate this very import Motion.

 

Mr Speaker, in 2016, when I was campaigning, the church stood with me and prayed for me. I congregated in many churches many times. Even now, after being elected as hon. Member of Parliament for Ndola Central and, subsequently, given the position of hon. Minister, I still congregate in those churches within my constituency and beyond.

 

Mr Speaker, the message that the churches gave me was that we should enshrine, in the Constitution that Zambia is a Christian Nation and the reason they gave was that we need to be identified by who we are.

 

Mr Speaker, even in our times growing up, whenever a child did something wrong, people would ask about his/her parents. They would ask where he/she came from. Being a Christian Nation, we are supposed to enshrine our identity in the Constitution.

 

Mr Speaker, many people have cried over the Public Order Act. For example, they have complained that they are not allowed the freedom of assembly at their own time. However, the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 is addressing the issue of the Public Order Act.

 

Mr Speaker, this Bill is talking about mixed member proportion where women, youth and individuals who are physically challenged would be given safe seats to represent in this House.

 

Mr Speaker, on 11^th March, 2020, we had an indaba with His Excellency the President of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, and the youths at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre. He gave an opportunity to the youths to air their views so that he could address them. They categorically pointed out three issues as the most important among those that they raised and these were: 

 

1. equal representation in Parliament;
2. quite high debt finance and;
3. assistance for the youth to, at least, get financing so that they could do the businesses they wanted to do.

 

Mr Speaker, if you look at the issue of equal representation, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia has no powers to sit in this House and speak on behalf the youth. Today, we want the youth to be represented in this House. Many individuals and some hon. Members of Parliament have stood up to masquerade as youth, when they are not.     

 

Mr Speaker, Article 266 of the Constitution of Zambia, on page 112, defines a youth as follows:

 

“youth” means a person who has attained the age of nineteen years, but is below the age of thirty-five years.”

 

Mr Speaker, the Motion that was moved on the Floor of this House yesterday, was moved by an hon. Member who calls himself as a youth yet he is forty years old. The youths are crying out there. They are saying that they want to represent themselves in the House because they are the ones carrying the burden.

 

Mr Speaker, if this Bill will not go through today, I urge the youths who I represent in this country, to reject these people who have stayed in this Parliament for long. There is no way someone can stay in Parliament for over three terms and has never formed a Government. They should give an opportunity to the youths to come and represent themselves. That is why there is a high level of unemployment because people are clinging on to these positions. They need to give the youths an opportunity to come and speak for themselves. Youths are going to bring fresh ideas, to create employment in this country.

 

Mr Speaker, having said that, I thank you for the opportunity granted since time cannot allow me to continue.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

My record shows that the hon. Member for Serenje debated last time.

 

Mr Putu (Mangango): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to add one or two words to the debate on this Bill.

 

Mr Speaker, I am very disappointed because I was expecting hon. Members of Parliament for the United Party for National Development (UPND) to be here to debate this Bill. However, what I am seeing is that there are only about four or five.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

 Hon. Member for Mangango, the focus should be on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019.

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, I am very disappointed. However, I am going to focus on the issue of delimitation. We have a good number of constituencies which are too vast, such as Mongu Central. Unfortunately, the hon. Member for Mongu Central is not here.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Mangango, resume your seat.

 

We have very limited time and if I constantly intervene, I am even wasting more time and I may end up not asking the people I have already identified to debate. I want to be sure that we complete the debate on this Bill on time. There are certain procedures that I have to perform beyond the debate. If, for instance, you are talking about Mongu Central Constituency, just talk about it regardless of who the holder of the constituency is, for the time being.

 

We are not dealing with personal issues here. We are dealing with the Constitution of Zambia. We are not doing this for the benefit of individuals. We are doing this for the benefit of the nation and posterity. Therefore, if you start singling out individuals saying that the hon. Member is not in the House, therefore, his constituency – in that case, you will have difficulties with me. By the way, these are not even personal to holder constituencies. You come and go.

 

Hon Member, you may continue.

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the guidance. If anything, you are supposed to give me ten minutes because I am debating for the first time.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, however, I will debate for five minutes because of the rules.

 

Mr Speaker: Let us be sure. Anyway, continue.

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, I was saying that we have a good number of vast constituencies such Mongu Central Constituency, Lukulu East Constituency, Chililabombwe Constituency, Mwinilunga Constituency, Kasempa Constituency, Mufumbwe Constituency, Chilubi Constituency, and many more. Therefore, the hon. Members on your left were supposed to be here to debate and tell the people of Zambia that they are not supporting the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 because of certain reasons. However, they have decided not to come here but how will the people of Zambia know that this Bill is good or not?

 

Mr Speaker, we know that they are not in support of this Bill because they are seeking for re-adoption. Adoption does not happen by not supporting the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, but it happens by being popular on the ground. Even us, on your right side, have to be popular otherwise we will not be adopted. Same applies to Hon. Jack Mwiimbu. Oh, sorry.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Mangango, will you withdraw that reference to Hon. Jack Mwiimbu.

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, I am sorry.

 

Mr Speaker: That is not sufficient. Withdraw the reference.

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, it is withdrawn.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker:  Withdraw the reference to Hon Jack Mwiimbu.

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, I have withdrawn it.

 

Mr Speaker: Very well, proceed.

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, hon. Members from the left were supposed to be here to debate this Bill so that they tell the people of Zambia that they are not supporting this Bill because of a number of reasons. However, the four of them are only here to witness –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

 Hon. Member, the debate cannot centre on individuals.

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, that is why I told you that I am very disappointed.

 

Mr Speaker: How do you know? Probably, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu would like to debate.

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, he has not indicated.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, continue.

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, we are here to represent the people who gave us votes and not to represent political parties. Yah, we are here because of political parties –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Withdraw the word ‘yah’.

 

Interruption

 

Mr Putu: Mr Speaker, I think with these few remarks, I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: That was a very efficient debate.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this very important Bill that seeks to amend the Constitution of Zambia.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me to start by saying that this is our country and it is expected of the people who are elected to this House to come and make laws. I think it is our mandate of make laws.

 

This is an example of a very important document that the people of Zambia would expect is brought to this House so that they are given a document that would stand a test of time. The youths of this country have been waiting for us to make a decision which will allow them to come to this House to speak for themselves. I know that this issue has been discussed by many hon. Members in this House but I think it is a very important issue which cannot pass without me adding my voice to it.

 

Sir, the women of this country are expecting that their hon. Members of Parliament, who have been sent to this House to make laws, will do justice to this document. They are hopeful that these hon. Members of Parliament will come up with laws that will enhance women representation in Parliament. We all know that in terms of percentage, the women representation in this House is very low. This is a safeguard that is supposed to be put in this Constitution so that women can come and represent themselves in Parliament.

 

Mr Speaker, regarding the different-abled, we cannot over-emphasise the fact that the people living with disabilities in this country need to be represented. The marginalised expect that this House today, will come up with that decision to allow them to come to this House to discuss what they believe in.

 

Sir, those of us who come from rural constituencies feel the delimitation process should be undertaken. The only way we are going to have this delimitation process happen is by making decisions which will allow the Constitution to give that opportunity for more constituencies to be created.

 

Mr Speaker, from the time we started the process of coming up with a new Constitution, the Executive have lived to the expectation of the people of Zambia and I applaud them. From the time that the last amendment to the Constitution was done, the President appended his signature for it to be in operation. This time around, the President and his Executive have been magnanimous enough to allow the process of amending the Constitution so that the clauses which the people of Zambia do not want are removed.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I want to bring out some frustrations that I endure most of the times. These are situations where an issue comes up on the Floor of this House and I am not able to contribute because maybe a list has been submitted already and then I am told that I am not on that list.                

 

Mr Speaker, I want to start by saying that this process was not started by the Government. I want to say this so that people can hear the truth. This process was started by the chief executives of parties. When this process came to the National Dialogue Forum (NDF), the Government did not hijack it. In fact, I was so surprised to see how quiet the hon. Minister of Justice was during these deliberations. He never tried in any way to direct this process. It was fully done by the people who participated in that process which was very encompassing because  people from various organisations and clubs attended it to put together the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019.

 

Sir, my frustration comes in when we are supposed to be debating this kind of an important Bill and there are others who are not allowed to debate. The silence of the hon. Members on your left side is worrying because it shows that some information is missing on their part and that is why they cannot participate. I think the reason behind that is that it is the Government’s duty to bring Bills to Parliament. I am surprised that whenever the Government brings a Bill to Parliament, the other side is very active. In fact, most of them speak more than us, on the right, would want to speak. So, why this particular Bill has been shunned is what I cannot understand.

 

Mr Speaker, it has become very common in this country that when the Government brings Bills such as the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 to the House, they are always objected to by hon. Members not participating in the debate. I remember being in this House when the Government brought the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) Bill. The same kind of behaviour happened. I remember when we were passing the last amendment on that Bill, our side discovered that we had problems with that particular amendment but since the Opposition had insisted that nothing should change, nothing was done. Therefore, as hon. Members, I think we are not doing any good to the people of Zambian.

 

Sir, the Government takes care of the country because it is in charge of almost everything including resources. So, when the Government brings something like this Bill to Parliament, it is because it thinks it is worth it and is necessary for the Zambians. In this world, I do not think there is a government that would want to lose elections. So, when the Government brings a Bill of this nature to Parliament, it is because it thinks it is good for the country. People should know that when that is done, it is being done on their behalf and not on behalf of the Government.

 

Mr Speaker, I am frustrated because the people who would have debated this Bill have been stopped from doing so. So, the people of Zambia must know that the reason they are not hearing a different voice in this Parliament is because people have been stopped from debating. The only reason people can do that is to totally agree with what has been presented.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: As I indicated earlier on, the last intervention will be from the hon. Member for Lubansenshi.

 

Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity given to the people of Lubansenshi Constituency to add a voice to this very important debate. It is very important in the sense that the people themselves decided to send their hon. Members of Parliament to this House to represent them. This is what we are doing today.

 

Mr Speaker, if I do not support the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, I would actually be demeaning the people who gave me the authority to come and represent them and make laws on their behalf. So, the hon. Members of Parliament from the Opposition who were supposed to be here to debate the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 so that their people know what is wrong or right in the Bill, have denied them that opportunity. That is very unfortunate.

 

Sir, I doubt if next year the same hon. Members will be given an opportunity to come and represent the people. Obviously, people are intelligent and they will look around for other people. The person who actually puts them in an enclosure will not protect them because he will not be there. However, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government did not necessarily identify the lacunas in the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. A number of people identified the lacunas way back even before the PF Government came in power.

 

Mr Speaker, I remember that a number of commissions were created in the past to look at the Constitution and address the challenges that the people noticed. It is not necessarily us who are seated here who identified those challenges, but they were identified by the people who sent us here to represent them. So, the process actually started in 2016. I was here in Parliament and our hon. Colleagues on the left side stood up and danced around this place and said that they wanted the Constitution to be assented to. The President actually assented to the Constitution but it was not perfect.

 

Sir, later on, the same people who were dancing around here and the chief executives of political parties said that we needed to sort out the issue of the Public Order Act, the Constitution itself and the electoral process. They even indicated those three issues and they brought them here. Fortunately, we sat down at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre (MICC) and we noticed those issues, isolated them and promised to work on them. What is actually not befitting is seeing the same people who identified the anomalies staying away when they should tell the people of Zambia about them. Unfortunately, they have chosen to stand on a very wrong path where they are politicising a noble exercise. Politics will not help them because the people know what they wanted.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to inform them that people will tell them that they wanted the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, and they did not give it to them. Yesterday, they were crying that the youths are not effectively represented and that they are not given an opportunity to speak for themselves but this is what this Bill is talking about. It seeks to bring the youths here so that they are able to speak for themselves. Unfortunately, women have attended –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member’s time expired.

 

The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Sir, what a journey!

 

Mr Speaker, first of all, I thank God for giving the people of Zambia their representatives gathered in this House. This has been a long journey that has been associated with a lot of debate around the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, some of which has been purely based on malice and innuendo. During this journey, on behalf of the ruling party and Cabinet, I asked the people of Zambia to speak through their hon. Members of Parliament, who they bestowed the responsibility to speak on their behalf through this Assembly. That has culminated in this day.

 

Sir, history is being recorded today and posterity shall read this history. We shall be judged by how we handle state matters. However, I am very pleased to have been the shepherd of this process. I am very satisfied that today, the people of Zambia have been treated to this debate. Unfortunately, they have only listened to one side of the debate. The other side chose to remain mute, and silent they shall be forever. The fact that they have refused to speak here, in Parliament where they were allowed to come and speak on behalf of the 17 million people, they should know that they have lost that opportunity forever.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to urge my dear brothers and sisters who have spoken that they should not let this campaign not end today. Let this campaign go out to the villages. Let it go up on the mountains of Zambia. Let it go in the valleys of this country. Let the people know and understand who came to this House to represent them and who have used this House to represent themselves and their myopic interests. Time for us to reckon has come.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister of Justice, withdraw the word ‘myopic’.

 

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I withdraw the word ‘myopic’ and replace it with short sightedness.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to say that, us, on the right side of the House, have always been clear that this debate shall not be a question of numbers but shall be a question of morality and principle. Let the men and women who stand on the basis of principle take the armour of the day. Let them be the ones who shall stand tall and say that they were insulted and criticised because they believed in the principle of working for the people of Zambia, not only the current population, but the populations that shall inherit this country and shall be represented in here through this Parliament. Let them know that we stand firm. We are determined. We shall not stop here and I am speaking on behalf of these men and women. We shall continue to soldier on to provide the rights of the people of Zambia to be represented here in Parliament. I call upon the citizens of Zambia to reckon today that the people on the right are people who are determined to provide them leadership that is inspired and wishes to ensure that we leave nobody behind. Let the vote be called and the numbers to us are no longer significant.

 

Sir, today, we have demonstrated that the men and women on the right led by President Edgar Chagwa Lungu shall stand for the truth irrespective of the outcome of the count of the vote. Today, we are the victors. On behalf of the Patriotic Front (PF), I thank the people of Zambia for giving us the opportunity to govern them and we shall present ourselves yet again in 2021. So, they should give us the confidence that they have given us.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubinda: We are a group of people or men and women who will not falter because of pieces of silver, selfishness or greed.

 

Mr Speaker, I want to end by thanking God Almighty for giving the people of Zambia, these men and women on your right. May God continue bestowing his love on Zambia. One Zambia, one Nation. In victory, we shall be together.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, this is a Constitutional Bill. The procedure for amending the Constitution is provided for in Article 79 of the Constitution of Zambia, which provides as follows:

 

“79 (1) Subject to the provisions of this Article, Parliament may alter this

Constitution or the Constitution of Zambia Act.

 

“(2)      Subject to clause (3), a Bill for the alteration of this Constitution or the Constitution of Zambia Act shall not be passed unless –

 

1. not less than thirty days before the first reading of the Bill in the National Assembly, the text of the Bill is published in the Gazette;
2. the Bill is supported on second and third readings by the votes of not less than two thirds of all members of the Assembly.”

 

Two-thirds of all members of the Assembly is 111. In addition to this Constitutional provision, Standing Order 20(2) of the National Assembly of Zambia (Coronavirus Disease 2019) Temporary Standing Orders 2020 provides as follows:

 

“19 (2) On the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 of 2019, and on any other matter requiring a specific threshold prescribed by law to pass, the House shall vote electronically using the multimedia system in the Chamber.”

 

In this regard, in order to comply with the Constitution and the Temporary Standing Orders, I request those hon. Members participating from the designated rooms to proceed here to the Chamber immediately for purposes of voting.

 

Whips, kindly ensure your Members are in the Chamber as soon as possible.

 

Hon. Members entered the Assembly Chamber.

 

Question that the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 be now read a second time, put and the House voted.

 

Ayes – (105)

 

Dr Banda

Mr S. Banda

Mr W. Banda

Mr Bwalya

Mr Chabi

Mr Chali

Ms Chalikosa

Mr Chalwe

Mr Chama

Dr Chanda

Mr Chansa

Dr Chibanda 

Mr Chilangwa

Dr Chilufya

Mr Chisanga

Mr Chisopa

Mr Chiteme

Mr Chitotela

Mr Chiyalika

Mr Chungu

Mr Daka

Mr Fube

Dr Hamukale

Ms Jere

Mr Kabamba

Mr Kabanda

Mrs Kabanshi

Mr Kafwaya

Mr Kalobo

Mr Kampyongo

Ms Kapata

Mr Kapita

Mr Kasandwe

Mr Kasonso

Mr Katambo

Ms Katuta

Mr Kaziya

Dr Kopulande

Mr Kunda

Mr Lubinda

Prof. Lungwangwa

Prof. Luo

Mr Lusambo

Mr Mabumba

Dr Malama

Mr A. B. Malama

Mr H. M. Malama 

Mr Malanji

Mr Mawere

Mr Mbulakulima

Mr Mecha

Ms Miti 

Mr Miti

Mr Mubukwanu

Mr Mukosa

Mr Mukumbuta

Mr Mulenga

Ms Mulenga 

Mr A. C. Mumba 

Mr D. Mumba 

Mr Mundubile

Mr Mung’andu

Mr Mushanga

Mr Mushimba

Mr Musukwa

Mr Mutale

Mr Mwakalombe

Mr Mwale

Mr Mwamba

Mrs Mwanakatwe

Mrs Mwansa

Ms Mwape

Mr Mwila

Mr Nakacinda

Ms Namugala

Mr Ng’onga

Dr Ng’andu

Mr Ngulube

Mr Nkhuwa

Mr Nyirenda

Ms Phiri

Mrs Phiri

Mr Phiri 

Mr Putu

Mr Sampa

Mr Sichalwe

Mr Sichone

Mr Sikazwe

Ms Siliya

Mr Simbao

Mr Simfukwe

Mrs Simukoko

Mr Siwale

Mr Siwanzi

Ms Subulwa

Rev. Sumaili

Mr L. Tembo

Mr M. Tembo

Mr S. Tembo

Dr Wanchinga

Mrs Wina

Mr Yaluma

Mr Zimba

Mr C. M. Zulu

Mr M. Zulu

 

Noes – (0)

 

Abstentions – (0)

 

Question accordingly negatived, there being less than two-thirds majority of all the Members voting in the affirmative.

 

______

 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

VOTE 39 – (Smart Zambia Institute – K99,793,953)

 

(Consideration resumed)

 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Madam Chairperson, the Smart Zambia Institute is an extremely important institution that will see to it that Zambia is truly transformed. What the Smart Zambia Institute is ultimately going to do for this country is ensure that Government services are delivered efficiently and cost effectively. This is very important because Government services to citizens have to be efficient. Equally, citizens have to experience effective or efficient Government services. Government services to businesses have to be efficient and businesses have to ensure that what the Government is delivering in terms of services is efficient. Government to Government services equally have to be efficient. This is what the Smart Zambia Institute will ultimately do for this country.

 

Madam Chairperson, when we look at, for example, the Transform Africa Summit, the idea behind it is, of course, the quest for Information and Communication Technology (ICT) to transform all African countries. This is exactly what we are doing in our country through the Smart Zambia Institute.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Chairperson, I just want to respond to a few hon. Members who contributed to the debate on the budget for the Smart Zambia Institute and I will start with the issue that the Smart Zambia Institute has not lived up to its mandate.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Smart Zambia transformational agenda has promoted the creation of innovative jobs using digital platforms as evidenced by the increase in the number of mobile money service providers, internet business centres, internet service providers and over 100 Information Communication Technology (ICT) solution providers and vendors.

 

Sir, the Government shall continue promoting the dissemination of information for public and private media houses that are in good standing with the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA).

 

Madam Chairperson, the Smart Zambia Institute has contributed a lot to –

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

_______

 

HOUSE RESUMED

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

(Progress Reported)

 

_______

 

The House adjourned at 1657 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 30^th October, 2020.

 

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