Tuesday, 20th October, 2020

Tuesday, 20^th October, 2020

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

BILLS

FIRST READING

FINANCIAL INTELLIGENCE CENTRE (Amendment) BILL, 2020

The Minister of Finance (Dr Ng’andu): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Financial Intelligence Centre (Amendment) Bill, 2020.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 12^th November, 2020. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

COMPANIES (Amendment) BILL, 2020

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Companies (Amendment) Bill, 2020.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Delegated Legislation. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 12^th November, 2020. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANISATIONS (Amendment) BILL, 2020

The Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare (Ms Mulenga): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Non-Governmental Organisations (Amendment) Bill, 2020.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 12^th November, 2020. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

MUTUAL LEGAL ASSISTANCE IN CRIMINAL MATTERS (Amendment) BILL, 2020

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina) (on behalf of the Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda)): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters (Amendment) Bill, 2020, to amend the Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters Act.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights, National Guidance, Gender Matters and Governance. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Thursday, 12^th November, 2020. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

EXTRADITION (Amendment) BILL, 2020

The Vice-President on behalf of Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Extradition (Amendment) Bill, 2020, to amend the Extradition Act.

Thank you, Sir.

Thank you.

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

THE PUBLIC PROCUREMENT BILL, 2020

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Minister of Finance (Dr Ng’andu): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2 on page 13, after line 22 by the insertion of the following new definition:

“local content” means the extent of utilisation of local inputs, products or personnel in the production of goods and services in the Republic;.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2 as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 9 – (Director-General)

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 9, on page 21, as follows:

(a) after line 18 by the insertion of the following new sub clause immediately after sub clause (2):

(3) A person qualifies for appointment as a Director-General if that person –

is a citizen;

holds a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent in procurement, business administration, marketing, economics or any other field relevant to procurement which is accredited or recognised and validated by the Zambia Qualifications Authority;

has at least five years work experience at senior management level;

is of proven integrity; and

has not been convicted of an offence involving fraud or dishonesty.;

(b) in line 31 by deletion of the word “Board” and substitution thereof of the word “President”; and

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 9 as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55 and 56 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 57– (Procurement Planning)

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 57, on page 64 after line 26 by the renumbering of sub clauses (3), (4), and (5) as sub clauses (4), (5) and (6), respectively.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 57, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89 and 90 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 91 – (Preference and Reservation for Schemes)

Dr Ng’andu: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 91, on page 63, as follows:

after line 27, by the insertion of the following new paragraph (b):

(a) grant a prescribed margin of preference to a bidder offering goods, works or services with local content; and

(b) in lines 28 to 30 by the renumbering of paragraph (b) as paragraph (c).

I thank you, Sir.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 91, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 92, 93, 94,95,96,97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112 and 113 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First and Second Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Public Procurement Bill, 2020

Report Stage on Wednesday, 28^th October, 2020.

______

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

VOTE 13 – (Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs – K111,343,042)

(Consideration resumed)

The Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mr Sichalwe): Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended last Friday, I was talking about my ministry’s budget performance for 2020.

Mr Chairperson, the budget performance for 2020 as of 31^st August, 2020, is as follows:

Recurrent Departmental Charges

The approved budget for the period under review was K4,508,163 and K3,250,000 was released by the Treasury, representing 72 per cent.

Personnel Emoluments

For this activity, K38,707,291 was allocated. So far, K25,804,860.67 has been released, representing 67 per cent of the approved budget.

Grants

Under this activity, K64,554,731 was allocated and K40,188,898.11 has been released by the Treasury, representing 62 per cent of the approved budget.

KEY PROGRAMMES UNDERTAKEN DURING PERIOD UNDER REVIEW (2019/2020)

Construction of Chiefs Palaces

Mr Chairperson, due to inadequate fiscal space in the 2020 Budget, there was no budget line for the project of the construction of the chiefs’ palaces. However, pursuant to the Government’s commitment to dismantle arrears owed to local contractors, an amount of K5,345,421.16 was paid by the Treasury for outstanding Interim Payment Certificates (IPCs). This was in an effort by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to show its policy commitment towards according their royal highnesses decent accommodation which is equal to their status in society.

Chiefs’ Welfare

Mr Chairperson, in the period under review, the ministry facilitated logistics for travel, board and lodging for chiefs who travelled to hospitals for medication and official duties both locally and internationally, at the insistence of the Government. In addition, the ministry has continued to implement medical and funeral insurance schemes for chiefs with Sanlam Life Insurance Zambia Limited and Madison Life Insurance Company Zambia Limited, respectively.

National Policy on Chieftaincy and Traditional Affairs

Mr Chairperson, this year, my ministry launched the National Policy on Chieftaincy and Traditional Affairs, the 2018/2021 Balanced Scorecard Implementation Plan and the Ministerial Service Delivery Charter. This was in an effort to provide direction to the entire country on the management of the institution of chieftaincy and chiefdoms in Zambia and the operationalisation of the 2018/2021 strategy. The ministry is committed to serve its clients efficiently through the service delivery charter.

Traditional Ceremonies

Mr Chairperson, the ministry supports ninety-six registered traditional ceremonies through the provision of grants and administrative and logistical support. A total of K720,000 was allocated for this programme in the 2020 Budget. However, during the period under review, only one traditional ceremony was supported.

Dismantling of Arrears

Mr Chairperson, I wish to inform this august House that during the period under review, the Treasury released a total of K1,826,963.44 to offset the debts owed to various suppliers of goods and services.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about the challenges.

Construction of Chiefs’ Palaces

Mr Chairperson, due to the limited fiscal space, the ministry could not implement the programme of constructing chiefs’ palaces at the desired pace.

Traditional Ceremonies

Mr Chairperson, as earlier alluded to, the ministry during the period under review, supported only one traditional ceremony. This was due to the cancellation of the hosting of traditional ceremonies in view of the outbreak of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19).

House of Chiefs Session

Sir, the House of Chiefs session is mandated by Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 41 of 1998 to hold at least two sessions in a year. However, during the period under review, the ministry has not conducted any House of Chiefs session in view of the COVID-19 outbreak.

Sir, I will now talk about the 2021 estimates of expenditure.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry’s aggregate funding for 2021 is K111,343,000.42 compared to K107,770,185 in 2020. This translates into an increment of K3,572,858, representing a 3 per cent upward adjustment.

Sir, with regard to personal emoluments, the ministry has been allocated K38,182,671 in 2021 compared to an allocation of K38,707,291 in 2020. This translates into a reduction of K524,620 which represents a 1 per cent downward adjustment. For recurrent departmental charges, there is an allocation of K3,605,641 in 2021 compared to an allocation of K4,508,163 in 2020. This translates into a 20 per cent reduction.

Sir, let me now talk about the key focus areas.

Customary Governance

Mr Chairperson, the programme is aimed at strengthening chiefdom governance and the participation of chiefs in matters of national development and governance through the House of Chiefs’ business. It also provides financial support to the institution of chieftainship. To this effect, a sum of K2,600,000 has been allocated to fulfil this statutory obligation.

Sir, the 2021 House of Chiefs business is of particular significance as it will provide an opportunity for new members of the house to be elected for the next five years. Further, K64,554,731 has been set aside for the payment of grants which includes chiefs’ subsidies and retainers’ wages.

Management and Support Services

Mr Chairperson, the service support programme is aimed at enhancing overall efficiency in the delivery of the ministry’s mandate. To this effect, the ministry has allocated a total of K39,168,312.

Sir, allow me to conclude by calling upon all hon. Members of this august House to support the estimates of expenditure for 2021 for the ministry as presented.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Mr Chairperson, in supporting this ministry’s budget, I have a few comments to make.

Sir, courts in this country are awash with cases concerning our royal highnesses. Most of these cases arise from disputes on succession to the throne. Courts have been forthright in adjudicating these matters. They have referred most of them to royal establishments so that they can apply their traditional value systems on those cases.

Mr Chairperson, traditionalists in this country, and that includes me, are worried that these matters are actually debasing our traditional systems. Therefore, I am asking the Government to strengthen the institution of the House of Chiefs and give it legal ‘teeth’ so that it can adjudicate on these issues concerning our chiefs, as opposed to them appearing in public courts. So, the Government should look at this matter and strengthen the institution of the House of Chiefs so that it can preside over these matters and be the final authority.

Sir, I am concerned about our traditional offices which, I think, require protection and insulation from potentially being corrupted by the influence and control of elected officials in the Government. I am saying this because most of our chiefs are being used by politicians for politics. They are in the forefront of buying councillors. I want to say that the Patriotic Front (PF) is buying councillors.

Interruptions

Mr Samakayi: I want to repeat that the point that the PF is buying councillors and I have evidence today which I am going to lay on the Table.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member debating must have evidence to bring any issue in the House. Without that, I advise him to depart from that path of debate so that he does not attract points of order.

Mr Samakayi: Mr Chairperson, I am not departing from that line of debate. I want to repeat that the PF is buying councillors. I have evidence which I am going to lay on the Table.

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Resume your seat, hon. Member. A point of order is raised.

Mr Ngulube: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to rise on this very important point of order.

Sir, when you guide the House on the issue of being factual, I believe that as hon. Members, we are supposed to abide by the rulings of the Chair. My point of order relates to the fact that Mr Samakayi, the hon. Member for Mwinilunga, is alleging a fact which he is not ready or capable of proving. He alleges the fact that there is a market place where councillors are sold. I am aware that Mr Samakayi is not capable of proving the fact that the Patriotic Front (PF) is buying councillors because I know that there is no market place where councillors are sold or bought. If anything –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, I think we do not have time for a prolonged point of order when given an opportunity to raise one. Can you quickly raise your point of order so that we make progress?

Mr Ngulube: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwinilunga, who has been opposed to the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10, in order to start crying for what the Bill intends to do? Him and his party have been opposed to the Bill, but they now want this House to do exactly what it intends to do. Is he, therefore, in order to be confusing himself and his electorate while contradicting himself on the Floor of this House? I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member for Mwinilunga raised the issue of the Patriotic Front (PF) buying councillors. When you rose on a point of order, I thought you wanted to find out whether or not the hon. Member had evidence concerning this allegation. However, your point of order is different from what the hon. Member had insinuated. Therefore, the hon. Member who is debating is actually in order as regards this point of order as he did not raise the issue of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 while your point of order brought in the issue of the Bill. However, after the hon. Member has debated, I will allow him to lay the evidence on the Table so that he can prove his insinuation against the PF.

The hon. Member may continue his debate.

Mr Samakayi: Mr Chairperson, I will do that and expect Zambians to hear the judgement that will come after I lay the evidence on the Table.

Sir, there is legislation to the effect that chiefs should not involve themselves in politics. They should neither contest nor campaign in elections. The reason is that when a chief goes out to campaign, those coming from opposing camps would not stop, but also put out information that they have to the people. This way, they will end up arguing with the chiefs, thereby, debasing the respect that is given to our chiefs. So, what the PF is doing is not correct.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I rarely debate the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. However, I would like to remind the hon. Minister that the money that is allocated to the ministry is not from the Patriotic Front (PF), but the Zambian people. If the money that is being budgeted for is from the Zambian people, fairness in the use of this money must be taken into account. Why am I saying so? It is because when it comes to allowances or salaries that chiefs get, some chiefs who are independent in their thinking and who the Government cannot put as surrogates to speak on its behalf are denied salaries. It is as if this money that is being allocated is from the PF when, in actual sense, it is from the Zambian people. Chiefs who stand to support their true traditions are sidelined. They are not given their allowances in order to put pressure on them to tow the Government line, which is not good.

Mr Chairperson, we need to keep our tradition. There is a reason this ministry was created. Tradition is the identity of the people. I would like the hon. Minister to explain why some chiefs are not given their allowances and why some of those who get these allowances receive them late. What difficulty is he experiencing in allowing the smooth payment of the chiefs’ allowances? If allowances are gazetted by the Government, then they must be paid as such.

Sir, when chiefs die, the Government interferes a lot in the selection of new ones. It interferes to a level where one feels bad to be a Zambian when he/she sees what it tries to push in the selection of new chiefs. We believe that traditional things should be left to tradition. The Government should not look at whether the person who wants to be a chief supports it or not. We should go to ordinary people to campaign and leave traditional leaders to sort out traditional issues.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister must ensure that there is no interference. I know about two or three chiefdoms where, after the chiefs died, the Government tried to sneak in its own issues. This does not look good to the younger generations. What legacy are we going to leave with the younger people who are growing up? Traditional issues must remain traditional.

Sir, the other issue is the building of palaces. The unfairness of the PF Government is so bad that everyone in the country is able to see it. The Government should not treat human beings like that. When it is given a responsibility to govern the country, it should do what its people expect it to do and fairness is one of the qualities that it needs. However, in the past four years, from the time I became an hon. Member of Parliament, I have not seen palaces built in some areas which are not PF strongholds. They keep on building palaces in areas of those who favour them. This money comes from all Zambians and the Government must see to it that it is fairly used.

Mr Chairperson, in my constituency, which is in Kalomo District, chiefs have no palaces. There is not even a programme to indicate when the palaces will be built. There is nothing at all. The chiefs are completely sidelined. This must stop because, when this money is allocated, the Zambian people expect true fairness. The Government must treat all Zambian chiefs as its chiefs. They are Zambians and must be treated equally. Any benefits that are given to chiefs should be equally distributed. What kind of young people are we going to raise when they see this unfairness? When it comes to the acquisition of National Registration Cards (NRCs), there is also unfairness, as if others are not Zambians.

Sir, the hon. Minister must look into the issues I have raised to ensure that the little money that is given to this ministry works according to the expectations of all Zambians and not where segregation is the order of the day.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, we have seen a continuous degeneration of the dignity of the institution of traditional leadership under the Patriotic Front (PF) because of its tendency to practice patronage and transactional leadership. By transactional leadership, I mean that under the PF, the leader promotes somebody based on a transaction of submission on one hand and punishment on another.

Mr Chairperson, the PF Government has denigrated the institution of chiefs. They had begun with civil servants. It is enshrined in the party constitution that only PF members are going to get employment in key positions. It is there. Now, they have cascaded it to the Royal Highnesses.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister indicated that last year, an amount of K107 million was allocated and this year, an amount of K111,343.042 has been allocated to the ministry and he calls it an increase by 3 per cent. Hon. Minister, there is inflation. It has actually decreased Bwana, okay! The Government needs to stand up and leave leverage for the chiefs to govern us in the manner that they were meant to, like they did in the era of colonialism. The colonialists never influenced a chief to take sides on a person based on their political affiliation. That is the truth.

Mr Chairperson, under the PF, we have seen the differing of people based on patronage. The PF is very good at patronising its citizens and they have not spared the chiefs. Unfortunately, they have reduced the chiefs to vuvuzelas. A vuvuzela is a trumpet. I have a chief in the Southern Province who is young and has been seen on social media. He is probably the age of my son. Fortunately, I come from the chiefdom, a royal family and, therefore, we carry ourselves with dignity. The PF, under their operatives have gone to parrot things to chiefs to disparage their own citizens just to apologise the next day because the entire chiefdom stood up and said “mwami, tamukohe kucita boobu”, meaning, “chief you cannot do this”. This is happening during the PF regime.

Mr Chairperson, time has come for the PF to start respecting the society that it governs. This is because chiefdoms or tradition is an institution on its own. I know that they have damaged all democratic institutions. They have damaged the Judiciary. By this, I mean they have damaged the courts. They have damaged almost everything that is there to balance the society and now they have gone down to the chiefs. These are the last kicks of a dying horse. This is what happens when you decide to take a posture such as this one, where your only means of living is survival. Yes, it is just for you to survive. You want to bamba zonke. That is to take everything.

Mr Chairperson, the day of reckoning is coming soon and I am urging the people of Zambia, through the chiefdoms where we all belong, to take a rain check on the PF. It has divided us for far too long. It is has divided this country for far too long and there is no contest to what I am saying.

Mr Chairperson, you will find that this year, 2020, a chief is fighting against a chief, not on account of a boundary dispute but on account of the fact that one chief is a trumpet for PF and the other is saying, “No you cannot do this”.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Ba fufuntungu! Just keep quiet. I am the one on the floor.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Nkombo, I want to help so that you debate feely.

Mr Nkombo: I can manage these ones.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Resume your seat. That is why in this Committee, you have a Chairperson. When I see that the situation is not conducive for you to continue debating, I will definitely come in.

Hon. Member, continue.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I treasure your style.

Sir, the time has come for us to take a rain check where the traditional leadership is concerned. There is discrimination even among chiefs. Those who make more noise for PF get pittance. However, those who are quiet or simply want to balance society, do not even get their allowances. It is the PF for you. Your days are numbered imwe ba PF. Your days are numbered.

The Deputy Chairperson: What does ‘imwe ba PF’ mean?

Mr Nkombo: It means you PF.

Their days are numbered. The chiefs are slowly waking up to the fact that they have been used for far too long.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nakacinda (Nominated): Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for the opportunity for me to debate this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, as I support this budget, let me begin by congratulating the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs for the wonderful work he has continued to do. He has done this under very difficult circumstances, in view of the economic challenges that beset the country as a result of climate change that earlier affected a number of issues as well as the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic which we are now dealing with.

Mr Chairperson, I happen to have been in my village over the last couple of days. One of our chiefs, Chief Chona was rejoicing having moved into a new palace that was constructed recently. I do know that there are number of palaces in the Southern Province that have been constructed by the Government and what is noble for all of us to do is to appreciate where good things have been done.

Mr Chairperson, in relation to the welfare of traditional leaders, I heard the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwiniluga, trying to discuss the issues of succession wrangles that have engulfed many traditional chiefdoms.

Mr Chairperson, at the time when we were discussing the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019, one of the pertinent issues that emerged was that, at the time the country attempted to remove the role of the Government through the Presidency to gazette traditional leaders and relegate the processes of succession to the customs and traditions of a particular chiefdom, in a way, it created anarchy.

Sir, in places where the traditional leadership is highly centralised like in the Western Province, unfortunately, the situation there is worse. The same applies to the centralised tradition leadership in the Eastern Province under the Chewa speaking people of Chief Gawa Undi. There are a number of issues that are happening in these areas arising from this change in the law. There are strong submissions that had been made such that if we had to resolve them, those who are progressive and are not looking at things from a partisan point of view should be able to support the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. It carries amendments which are going to cure those succession wrangles. These have emerged and have become rampant because of the status quo and the current provision of the law.

Mr Chairperson, other than the succession wrangles, when it comes to allowances or wages, unless an institution is gazetted, the Government cannot be able to disburse funds to an institution that is not gazetted. To that effect, those who have taken on the reign now and are not gazetted by the Government, unfortunately, have fallen off from the privilege of them benefiting from those allowances. I think there is a need for us to look at this matter objectively and not in a partisan manner.

Mr Chairperson, I have heard the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka trying to castigate some chiefs in the Southern Province who are in support of the Government programmes. He attempted to describe them as them as parrots. I think it is very unfair.

Mr Chairperson, I know that some of the traditional leaders in the Southern Province, where I come from, are intimidated if they speak out seemingly in support of the Government of the day. Some of them are threatened and the main threat is, quote, “enveloped with ethnic tonations”, and that must be condemned. I think that everyone must be given an opportunity to exercise their free will and be able to appreciate things that are being done for the benefit of the people. I support the Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Chairperson, I thank you so much for allowing the voice of Chienge to add its voice to this very important Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the policy statement rendered at this very critical moment. Seeing that we are going to have general elections next year, and we only have about four months, I would like to find out from the ministry how it is going to complete – (inaudible).

Mr Chairperson, I must say that I am impressed to hear that in other places, such as the Southern Province, a chief was welcomed into a new palace. Us, in Chienge have issues; we were promised that at least two palaces were to be constructed within this five year period. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what they are going to do about that, and where the money has gone given that even Senior Chief Mununga’s palace has not been completed and is now being vandalised. I would also want to find out when the palaces for Chieftainess Lambwe Chomba and Senior Chief Puta are going to be constructed although I know that Senior Chief Puta’s palace is in another phase.

Mr Chairperson, I must say that we should really take care of our traditional leaders. I think that chiefs deserve much more than what we promise them. It would be rather prudent for us not to promise anything to our chiefs than failing to fulfil it because they feel belittled. Some might say that chiefs are being dragged into politics but the truth of the matter is that as long as they are on the payroll of the Government, they are like civil servants. They are there to support the Government of the day. So, to say that chiefs are being used as tools in politics is very unfortunate.

Mr Chairperson, I have seen a senior chief in the Southern Province, in Livingstone, who comes out very strongly against the Government, and no one has ever said that that particular senior chief is being political. Why should it become a problem when other chiefs speak on behalf of the Government? We should be realistic because we are national leaders. We are there to bring peace and unity and not to make our people feel as though the Government is at war with the chiefs.

Mr Chairperson, if anything we should discourage our chiefs from castigating the finger that feeds them. If I were the Government, I would definitely have the fingers cut-off from those who would be castigating me while I feed them. I believe some have not been getting their allowances, maybe because of their language. However, I urge the House that whenever we debate, we should debate on how best we can help our traditional leaders for them not to be begging from us, but to empower them. I am looking forward to the next Budget when I come back in 2021. I will be glad to hear that there is a new budget for 2022, in which senior chiefs of a particular place, for instance Chienge, would be encouraged to form a cooperative. Let us start empowering our chiefs in that manner. That way, the suspicion of brown envelopes for the chiefs, or whatever, will not even exist.

Mr Chairperson, I commend the Government for what it is doing to uplift the livelihood of some of chiefs. I have seen many of them benefiting. However, my cry is that, what is going to be done with the palaces that are nearly completed. We need to see that Senior Chief Mununga and other chiefs in Chienge District move into their palaces

Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for allowing me to contribute to the Motion. However, let us remember that our chiefs are not partisan. We should not belittle them by calling them vuvuzelas. They are not vuvuzelas and they deserve respect. We should also look at other chiefs who are also vuvuzelas in some provinces and are so loud.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

What is the meaning of the word ‘vuvuzela’?

Ms Katuta: Mr Chairperson, a vuvuzela is that thing they use in South Africa, to make the sound “poooh”. It looks like a trumpet, but it is not. So, calling our chiefs vuvuzelas is just wrong. There is no one who is a vuvuzela. We should just be fair and say that our chiefs that are not –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ok, it is clear hon. Member.

The hon. Member’s time expired.

The Deputy Chairperson: I will allow the hon. Member for Lukashya to give his maiden speech.

Mr Chisanga (Lukashya): Mr Chairperson, I wish to start by thanking you, most sincerely, for giving me this opportunity to deliver my maiden speech to this august House.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to start by thanking the Republican President, His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, Her Honour the Vice-President Madam Inonge Mutukwa Wina, the Secretary General of the Patriotic Front (PF) Hon. Davies Mwila and all senior members of the PF Central Committee, the Northern Province Committee, the District Committee, and Lukashya Constituency, for the confidence they have shown in me by giving me the opportunity to stand as hon. Member of Parliament for Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency in the just ended election.

Mr Chairperson, I must register my sincere thanks to all members of the PF in all ranks, who came out in numbers to support our team during the campaign and to ensure that we recorded a resounding victory in the contest. I also thank my mother and all my relatives and friends who supported me, materially and financially to ensure that we won the last ended election.

Mr Chairperson, I extend my gratitude to the people of Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency who voted for and against my candidature, for excising their civic right and responsibilities, and selecting the person they wished to represent them as hon. Member of Parliament. I take the seat with inescapable realisation that I am now a messenger and the voice of all the residents of Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency. I have a duty to serve them without discriminating against those who did not find it fit to vote for me.

Mr Chairperson, the year 1979, was the United Nations (UN) International Year of the Child. I was a child that year and made my first appearance in this august House. I was brought here by a United National Independence Party (UNIP) steward who I could only remember as Mr Gova. Mr Gova was a freedom fighter in UNIP although he hailed from Southern Rhodesia. In the short time that I spent in the House, I observed the deliberations and I developed a lasting impression of how those who choose to lead conduct themselves.

Mr Chairperson, as I continued my interactions with Parliamentarians while I was growing up, I came to know men and women of honour who were driven by the passion and the deep love for our recently independent country. I made a resolution very early in my life that if I was ever going to be given a chance to enter this august House as Member of Parliament, I would serve with passion and due diligence with the object of ensuring that those at whose instigation I will be given the important mandate have their rights secured, protected and their voice heard with resounding resonance.

Mr Chairperson, over the years of our existence as a sovereign state, our times have changed significantly. From the one party State which we were, which was justified by the need to foster national development and unity, we later matured and returned to a multiparty State system, and become an instant envy of the African continent and the world over as a beacon of peace. Regrettably, we were not minded to build on what our forefathers and mothers had laid down in terms of advancing economic gains of our country. This resulted in the inevitable disadvantage of slowing our drive to maturity as a Republic of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, the Patriotic Front (PF), on whose flagship I arrived in this august House, prides itself as a party that seeks to achieve the gains that had been lost at the advent of our journey to the multiparty system of politics. The party, through its implementation of pro-poor policies, has endeavoured to open up and link the country by undertaking robust infrastructure development projects and by particularly creating linkages between rural and urban communities and easing the movement of people, goods and services around the country and beyond.

Sir, the PF Government has achieved these plans by erecting educational, health, road and security infrastructure that have enabled people living in rural and urban areas to have access to the basic needs of maintaining a livelihood. One can only consider himself honoured and privileged to belong to a party that has made these very visible achievements in record time. The PF places the interest of its citizens at the centre of the governance system without living anyone behind.

Mr Chairperson, if I am asked to briefly share my vision as I take my seat in this august House, I intend to be part of a vehicle through which the PF Government will continue to achieve its set objectives of making Zambia a self-sufficient nation, through the implementation of pro-poor policies, that seek to narrow the divide between those who are considered to be comfortable and those who are considered to be the poorest of the poor. In achieving this vision, I intend to be an attentive and effective legislator, who will not only pay attention to detail, but one who will not shy away from consulting stakeholders, who are likely to be impacted by the legislative process that will be undertaken by this House with my participation. Therefore, I would like to assure the people of Lukashya that I will effectively and ably represent them.

Sir, allow me to make two very brief observations on the just ended by-election in Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency. This election was undoubtedly very involving as it was tiring going by the sheer size of the constituency. However, let me mention the two important experiences from which I have drawn some lessons.

Mr Chairperson, firstly, some observers in the nation had suggested that the campaigns prior to the election in Lukashya would be very violent and would not be fair and free. However, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) started by engaging all political stakeholders in the campaigns and delivered its message to all that it expected strict adherence to the law and the Electoral Code of Conduct. In order to aid political parties participating in the election, the ECZ even prescribed a campaign timetable, which minimised the physical interaction of the contending parties during campaigns and the parties endeavoured to follow this initiative. This initiative greatly minimised the incidences of violence in the constituency and the credit for it must go to the ECZ.

Sir, secondly, my campaign trail made me interact very closely with various stakeholders in the constituency including traditional leaders, church leaders, civic organisation leaders and other renowned individuals in the areas which I visited. I met two individuals who made me exercise my mind on the assignment that awaited me in my new role as Member of Parliament once I became victorious. I met one old lady, who was introduced to me as Banakulu Chilufya, who demanded to know my views on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019. However, before I said anything, Banakulu Chilufya told me that she knew I was involved in a very heavy campaign programme but she wanted me to know that I would be failing her as a Member of Parliament if I was not going to ensure that whatever we do with the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 does not help her put food on the table for her six grandchildren who had been committed to her ward after the death of her children.

Mr Chairperson, I also received a phone call from a man I came to know as Mr Paul Chikwekwe, a ninety-two year old retired educationist, who rose to fame by planting 75,000 plants of pine as a way of personally contributing to the fight against global warming. I sought out Mr Chikwekwe not for this important feat but to hear his views on how we were going to manage the constituency, which was partly his home for a greater part of his sixty years of existence. He informed me that in its current state, Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency, and many other constituencies which he had visited in his lifetime were unsustainable and that by not addressing the question of creating constituencies and even districts out of that large portion of land, we were confining our people to perpetual poverty. I assured Mr Chikwekwe that I would make a practical application of the valuable lesson he taught me particularly because he even showed me documented evidence of the idea of trying to reduce the sizes of constituencies.

Sir, these two interactions made me develop a very different perspective on the Constitution-making process which was very graphically different from the traditional one that I was taught in law school.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I wish to record my glowing tribute to the late Member of Parliament for Lukashya Constituency, Hon. Mwenya Munkonge, for the role he played of representing the people of Lukashya. I had the privilege of interacting with various individuals who worked with him when he inspected projects that he superintended over as an hon. Member of Parliament. I draw the unassailable conclusion that Hon. Munkonge has left an indelible mark on the constituency and that his works will be remembered for many years to come.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate on the Vote for the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs.

Sir, the issue of chiefs is a very sensitive matter, but they are important. I do not think that there is anyone in this country who does not pay homage to the chiefs because we all come from different chiefdoms. If only as Zambians, we could know how to harness the institution of chiefs, we would stand to benefit a lot from it.

Sir, three issues attracted my attention and hence my reason to participate in this debate. The first issue regards succession wrangles, which Hon. Samakayi talked about. Let me give a practical example of my constituency, Milenge, where for seven years, we had no chief, Chief Sokontwe, until this year when the High Court made a ruling. Eight years down the line, we do not have Senior Chief Milambo in Milenge because of succession wrangles. However, people have hope in the Government. So, it is not good for any Government to say that it has no hand in such matters. People elect the Government to do everything for them. Therefore, I think the Government must provide an enabling environment in which wrangles must reduce, if not eliminated completely. In this regard, there is a need for us to have a clear cut route of which the House of Chiefs must be the overall body to litigate in these issues, and that must be done quickly.

Mr Chairperson, the second issue I want to talk about concerns land. I am not degrading anybody, but what I want to say is a known fact. Many chiefs focus on land allocations and if we do not watch out, we will not have any land soon. Our chiefs must also shift their focus from land issues to the behavioural change of their people. They should focus on how they can promote hard work and help in ending early marriages. There are a lot of things that chiefs can do to help the Government, and that is why it calls them partners in development.

Sir, the third issue regards politics. I have observed that most of the chiefs are becoming politically active, which is not good. Regardless of where one comes from, he/she belongs to a chief. I come from Luapula but when I go to the Eastern Province and Southern Province, I must respect the chiefs whom I find there. So, chiefs must be mindful of the fact that they are custodians of our tradition in our land. Most of them are seen to take a partisan approach, which is not good. Regardless of the divide we are on, we must advise the chiefs. Of course, they have feelings and choices, but I think they can do that silently. Most of them are being driven by the media. When you sit behind the camera and utter words, you may regret afterwards. I think it is not good for the chiefs to go that way.

We become excited when the media is amidst us. I have seen some chiefs take a partisan approach and I think this is not good, and the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs must look into this.

Mr Chairperson, with those few comments, I thank you.

The Deputy Chairperson: I have seen a number of hon. Ministers indicating to debate, but I will be very reluctant to allow most of them. If they would like to respond to something, they can pass a note to the hon. Minister. When he stands up to windup debate on the Vote, he can respond to that. I am looking at time and I also need to accommodate Back-benchers. So, the last person I will allow to debate on this Vote is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting.

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Ms Siliya): Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for this opportunity to contribute to the debate on a very important Vote.

Sir, as Chief Government Spokesperson, I meet many royal highnesses from different parts of Zambia. Recently, their royal highnesses have had only one very strong message and they wish to work with the Government of the day, and in this case, that is the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. They have been very clear that the people who the Government serves are the same people who they also serve. As such, it is very difficult to imagine their royal highnesses being divorced from the Government of the day. At the end of the day, what their royal highnesses are looking for are services for their people, and when they are doing that, whom do we expect them to turn to?

Mr Chairperson, do we expect that they are going to turn to my dear friend Hon. Nkombo, who was just debating, when they are looking for roads or different services for their people? Of course not; they will attempt to get as close as possible to the Government. In this case, the Government has been responding. In fact, I have been explaining to their royal highnesses that that is the whole essence of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 of 2019. If you recall, in 2016, there was sort of a detachment of the Government from their royal highnesses and they have made a very important plea that they would like to work as close as possible with the Government.

Sir, I have been going around the country, explaining the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment), Bill No.10 of 2019 to their royal highnesses. In fact, we are on the same side. The Government, the people of Zambia and their royal highnesses are on the same side because they want the same thing and that is to work as closely as possible. For us in the Government, we had a duty to respond to the call of their royal highnesses regarding their need to be recognised by the Government. There has to be a clear policy within the Government regarding the disagreements and challenges of palaces that we were hearing about in their royal highnesses families and that will be done once we cross the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 of 2019 bridge.

Mr Chairperson, I found it very strange for somebody to refer to their royal highnesses as trumpets or vuvuzelas. For example, after so many years and administrations, the chiefs in the Southern Province were happy to see the Kazungula Bridge being constructed. Why should they not be happy and why should somebody refer to that as vuvuzela? Why should the people in Mongu who are seeing a new district hospital not rejoice? Why should their royal highnesses not be happy and shout with joy, and why should they be referred to as vuvuzelas? Even in my constituency, Petauke, Chief Kalindawalo is for the first time extremely happy seeing a new big modern hospital. So, why should he not jump with joy and be referred to as vuvuzela?

Sir, I recently met their royal highnesses and they are so happy that fertiliser was delivered on time. Why should they not jump with joy because the Government provided that service to its people? Why should they not jump with joy instead of being referred to as vuvuzelas? The Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is being called as cash and carry because when a farmer delivers his maize, he is paid on time. So, why should their royal highnesses not jump with joy because the Government is delivering to their people? Even when there was a disaster in Chipata, Her Honour the Vice-President immediately went there. So, why should their royal highnesses not jump with joy because the Government immediately responds to their needs?

Mr Chairperson, the kind of vuvuzela or trumpet we want is a positive one, and not what we hear from our colleagues, who are always denigrating and eroding confidence in institutions of governance such as the Judiciary, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), and their royal highnesses. They are always denigrating the important role of these Government institutions, yet they are not even in the Government. It is a bit scary to imagine what they would do, if they were in the Government, to people they do not agree with. Why should a chief not jump with joy after seeing a road, hospital, water, fertiliser and relief food being delivered? This is because he knows that the Government is serving the same people that he is serving, and I am sure that their royal highnesses are listening.

Sir, this Government stands with the people of Zambia on the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 of 2019 because it wants to ensure that it deliver services to them. I think this is why we will continue keeping our friends on the left outside the Government because they are yet to truly appreciate the role of the Government and its chiefs.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank all those who have supported the budget that I presented. However, allow me to react to some of the issues raised.

Sir, first and foremost, there has been a common denominator in all the debates of succession wrangles, which as rightly put, have been enshrined in the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 of 2019. However, as the Government, we saw the need to address the issue of succession wrangles, which has protracted for a long time. It only goes to show that our colleagues, who are not in support of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No.10 of 2019, have actually not even read it. Had they done so, they would have joined us on the Floor of this House to sieve what is good and bad in it.

Mr Chairperson, one of the issues raised was that chiefs are being partisan. Chiefs have always been encouraged to be non-partisan, in the sense that they would have to deal with different political views in their chiefdoms. However, they are encouraged to support the Government of the day. So, supporting the Government of the day may be misconstrued to supporting a particular party.

Sir, regarding the payment of chiefs’ subsidies, they are paid without segregation. Yes, we take note of the delays in the release of funds, which ultimately affects the payments. However, the ministry is constantly liaising with the Ministry of Finance to ensure that grants are released on time.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member for Kalomo Central Parliamentary Constituency talked about the uneven distribution of palaces. He may wish to know that we constructed three palaces in Kalomo because, in the first phase, we are constructing three palaces in each province. Choongo, Chona and Mwenda palaces are being worked on in the Southern Province. So, the distribution of palaces is even. The hon. Member for Nchelenge might wish to note that we are constructing Mununga and Munkanta palaces, which are at 82 per cent, and Kanyembo Palace, which is at 80 per cent completion, and the others will be considered in successive phases.

Sir, the hon. Member for Milenge talked about the issue of land. This issue has been taken care of by our colleagues in the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources through the National Land Policy. Therefore, that issue is being taken care of.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to remind hon. Members that all successive Governments have governed through the institution of chieftaincy and none of them considered the welfare of their royal highnesses, particularly the lack of decent accommodation for them. Only the PF Government took this on board and decided to build palaces for all the chiefs. So, it is worth appreciating the PF Government’s effort of bettering the conditions of our royal highnesses.

Sir, in a nutshell, I wish to thank all the hon. Members who have supported the Budget for the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 14 – (Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development – Headquarters – K466,793,402)

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to give a policy statement in support of the Estimates of Expenditure for the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development for the fiscal year 2021. The theme for the 2021 Budget resonates well with the aspirations of the mining sector which is geared to take the lead in the economic recovery of our country, if well supported.

Performance Review

Mr Chairperson, as regards the performance review of 2020, I will provide a brief overview of the programme performance for the period January to 30^th September, 2020. The ministry was allocated a total of K209,613,068 in the 2020 budget, representing 0.20 per cent of the total Budget. Of this amount, a total of K68,430,060, representing 32.6 per cent was released by the Treasury as of 30^th September, 2020.

Mr Chairperson, in an effort to provide basic geological information to attract investment, the ministry undertook geological mapping in the North-Western and Luapula provinces of Zambia. The mapping exercise is currently on-going.

Sir, the Government continues to undertake the proactive monitoring of the environment in the mines. The monitoring includes regular inspections, approval and certifications of equipment and machinery and review of the impact assessments submitted by various mining entities.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has made headway in developing a legal framework aimed at enhancing the participation of Zambians in the mining value chain. In this regard, a draft Statutory Instrument (SI) on local content for the mining sector has been developed and submitted to the Ministry of Justice.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has continued to prioritise the promotion of small-scale mining through the facilitation of the development of mining skills as well as providing equipment to small-scale gold mining cooperatives in Rufunsa, Vubwi and Lumezi districts. Further, with the support from the countries of the African, Caribbean and Pacific Group of States-European Union (ACP-EU) Development Minerals Programme, the ministry continued to build the capacity of small-scale miners through skills development and provisions of various grants.

Mr Chairperson, programme implementation in 2020 has been hampered by inadequate budgetary allocations. However, the ministry continued to implement programmes with support from cooperating partners.

Mr Chairperson, I now wish to turn my attention to the ministry’s 2021 budget estimates. The ministry has been allocated a budget of K466,793,402 in the 2021 budget, representing 0.41 per cent of the National Budget. A total of K27,946,014 or 5.99 per cent is for salaries and K5,666,371 or 1.21 per cent is for grants while K418,181,019, representing 89.59 per cent is for donor funded projects. An amount of K15 million, representing 3.2 per cent is for support regarding the operations and implementation of programmes under the ministry.

Mr Chairperson, in fulfilling its mandate, the ministry will in 2021 implement six programmes as follows:

mines development and management;
mine safety and health and environment;
mineral resources development and management;
petroleum exploration;
mines technical services; and
management and support programmes.

Mr Chairperson, these programmes are anchored on Pillar 1 of the Seventh National Development Plan (SNDP). In this regard, focus on diversification will continue in the mining sector by promoting the exploitation of gemstone and industrial minerals.

Mr Chairperson, gold mining remains a priority in the 2021 budget as it has the potential to trigger economic gains for the country. In this regard, the ministry will continue with the issuance of gold panning certificates and mining licences. It will also curb illegal gold mining through the deployment of security personnel and enhance the monitoring and regulation of both mining and trade of gold. Further, the ministry will continue promoting the exploitation of non-traditional minerals such as manganese and energy minerals alike.

Mineral Resource Development and Management

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has allocated a total of K2,599,999 for the development and implementation of geological and geophysical mapping programmes. This is in an effort to provide readily available geological and geophysical information for potential investors as well as having a defined mineral and petroleum resource database which promotes easy exploitation of these minerals by both local and foreign investors.

Petroleum Exploration

Mr Chairperson, this programme has been allocated a total of K500,000. The ministry will focus on geophysical data generation in order to promote and attract investment in the upstream petroleum sector. In addition, the ministry will enhance monitoring and inspection of petroleum exploration licences in various strategic licence blocks across the country in terms of compliance.

Mine Safety and Health Environment

Mr Chairperson, the programme has been allocated a total of K423,135,726. This value is inclusive of the World Bank-funded project amounting to, approximately K418,181,019. The focus is to strengthen monitoring and ensure compliance to the provisions of the law. In this regard, the funds will be used for remediation of lead-contaminated areas especially in areas of historical nature, such as Kabwe, treatment of children affected by lead, rehabilitation of the Kabwe Canal and establishment of a laboratory at the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) in order to ensure that scientific processes of ascertaining these dangers are put in place.

Mines Development and Management

Mr Chairperson, under this programme, the ministry will continue issuing mining rights to both small and large scale mines. In order to ensure compliance to approved programmes of operations, the ministry will continue monitoring and auditing all exploration, mining and processing operations. This will be done at a total value of K14,163,646, as provided for in the Budget.

Mines Technical Services

The programme aims at providing technical services to small-scale mines in relation to geological and mines skills development. The ministry will continue to prioritise specific measures to formalise this sector and enhance access to finance and technical services with particular attention on gold, gemstone and industrial minerals mining. The programme has been allocated a total of K497,926 in the 2021 budget.

Management and Support Services

Mr Chairperson, the programme has been allocated a total sum of K64,449,999 to support the operations as well as the development and review of various policies and pieces of legislation for the effective regulation and supervisory capacity for the mining sector.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I wish to state that my ministry’s Budget is reflective of the national priorities as contained in the SNDP. I, therefore, call upon this august House to support and approve the 2021 Estimates of the Expenditure for the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Chairperson, firstly, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the statement. Secondly, I would like to say that with these serious economic problems that are taking place in Zambia now, there are two fundamental issues that have contributed to that. The first one being excessive borrowing, which I have always talked about, but I will not pursue that today because we do not have sufficient time. The second major factor is the mishandling of the mining industry.

Mr Chairperson, mining is the foundation of the economy of Zambia, but it is being mishandled. It is like digging up the foundation and building the house, but the house collapses. Similarly, if you mishandle the mining sector, the economy is going to collapse.

Mr Chairperson, for a sector like mining to contribute positively to the economy, there is only one route, and that is, making sure that mining output is expanding from low volumes of mining production to as much as you can. Mining outputs must expand. Between about 2003 and 2013 when the economy of this country was expanding, the exchange rate and prices were stable. However, when you look at the information, you will see that mining at that time was prosperous. Currently, when the economy is floundering, you can also see that mining has gone down. Therefore, the problem that has arisen is that, whereas the previous Governments were encouraging mining outputs to expand, this is not taking place under this current Government.

Mr Chairperson, in 2011, we were expecting that by 2015 and 2016, Zambia should have been producing about 2 million tonnes of copper. However, that production has stagnated, and we are currently stuck, around 800,000 tonnes. In the meantime, there are more children coming on the scene and the demands of the economy are getting higher. With a major sector stagnating like this, how do you expect the economy to expand? So, this is where the problem is. Whereas in the previous Government, mining was expanding, under this Government, mining is not expanding. In fact, under this Government, problems have mushroomed everywhere in the mining sector and it is causing chaos.

Mr Chairperson, today one of the major mining companies, Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) is in total confusion. We do not know what is happening. Obviously, the mining output is suffering because of the chaos that is in the mining sector. How do you expect to find an investor to invest in the KCM when in fact, this asset has a legal dispute? Who is going to buy a mine which has court cases running? It will not happen. That, therefore, means that for many years to come or in the near future, the mining output is going to stagnate.

Mr Chairperson, this Government has been changing taxes almost every year. With this confusion, how does the Government expect to attract investment in the mining sector when the owners of Bwana Mkubwa, Kansanshi, Lumwana and Kalumbila mines, are trying to open and revive these mines? It will not happen.

Mr Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to support the Vote for the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to state that there is no confusion in the mining sector. If there is, it is probably on social media or places where our hon. Colleagues get their information from.

Mr Chairperson, through the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development under the able leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, the Patriotic Front (PF) has revised all the mining laws. If you look at the Mines and Minerals Act now, you will see that there is more order in the mining sector than there was in the past. Issues of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) are the matters that are before the courts of law and places we cannot mention now. I do not think we would want to use KCM as an example because it is not the only mining company in this country. We also know that our hon. Colleagues in the Opposition think that exemplifying what is happening at KCM gives a picture of what is obtaining in the mining sector in the country. The matters at KCM cannot be used as a yard stick to judge the success of the mining sector in Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, currently, with regard to the gold mining industry, we can talk about Kasenseli Gold Mine Project as one of the success stories. I think the PF has performed far much better than our hon. Colleagues did when they were in Government. When our hon. Colleagues were in power, not to mention specific names, but I know that when some of them were hon. Ministers of Finance, there was chaos. That is why this country could not collect enough money from the mining sector. We have problems of the forty eight houses and other things because at that time, the hon. Ministers that were responsible for those sectors deliberately ignored a lot of salient features. What the PF has done is to strengthen the law so that everything else can bank on the strengthened laws. I am aware that the PF has made it very clear that small-scale mining licences are now reserved, specifically for Zambians. When there was another set of people in power, it was chaos. Now, it is not possible for a person to come and buy a village. Under the Mines and Minerals Act, the PF Government has actually worked extremely well. I can see the hon. Member for Kasempa nodding her head in agreement. I know that there is a mine in Kasempa called Katoka Mema which produces a lot of gold. Without the PF Government making these laws straight, the people of Katoka Mema would still be wondering what is happening. I am also aware that without –

Interruptions

Mr Chairperson: Order!

Do not debate while seated.

Mr Ngulube: Mr Chairperson, I am a well-travelled person. I know where most of these mines are. I can assure you that under the PF Government, the mining sector is doing far much better than it used to when someone was the hon. Minister of Finance. I am also aware that someone is trying hard to ignore what I am saying and also pretending not to hear what I am saying.

Laughter

Mr Ngulube: The issue is that somebody failed to deliver the correct messages. It remains clear that the PF Government has performed wonders. I am aware that even when you pretend that your ears are not listening, it is possible that you are hearing what the people are saying.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, allow me to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa for having brought out many positive issues that the PF is doing.

Mr Chairperson, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Mr Daka (Msanzala): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate on this very progressive Vote for the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

Mr Chairperson, this ministry needs to be given a lot of support. Look at what is happening in rural areas such as Msanzala Constituency. The youth, and generally people in that area, have been empowered to create co-operatives in order to participate in getting mineral wealth from underground.

Mr Chairperson, we should not allow foreigners to come and exploit minerals and leave our people behind without participating. We have to make sure that our people participate in mining and acquiring wealth for their homes.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development has elaborately articulated the progress that has been made in the mining sector, and that is gratifying. Some mines like Sasari have been quiet for a very long time. I emphasise that this powerful Government of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, must allow our people to participate in mineral extraction. It must consider safety as the number one factor. Yesterday, the District Commissioner (DC) and I went to Chinkombe to see the situation in which some youths who had been participating in the extraction of minerals in the area were buried and killed. It was sad.

Mr Chairperson, I urge the hon. Minister to ensure that the inspectorate department, which looks at the safety of our people as they go underground, is empowered or given resources. These resources will enable inspectors to visit all the areas where mining operations take place. There have been deaths in these mines and the people in charge of the mines have gone scot-free. Nobody even reports to the police when deaths happen in the mines. In light of this, the DC and I went to Chinkombe in Lusangazi District to see the situation after the deaths. The people who died came from Singozi Ward, which is part of Msanzala. So, as we empower Zambians in the mining sector, it is important that we protect them. Mines should have good safety mining procedures and practices.

Mr Chairperson, as regards the holes that are left after digging the minerals from underground by certain big co-operatives that undertake mining, I want to urge the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development to work with the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) to ensure that these ditches are taken care of because they are a hazard to people in rural areas.

Further, it is important that when people go to these areas for mining activities, they must report themselves to traditional rulers and District Commissioners (DCs) or any authority that exists which is part of the Government of President Edgar Chagwa Lungu. These will ensure that there is presence of the police officers and officers from the Safety Department of the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development who will ensure that proper procedures are followed.

Mr Chairperson, at one time, I raised a flag on the issue of foreigners coming on motorcycles from neighbouring countries to extract our gold and take it out of the country. This situation has reduced, but I feel that more strength must be given to the security wings and the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development to ensure that we do not allow our people or this country to lose out on minerals because they will not be accounted for.

Sir, the endowments that we have in the ground can help us alleviate certain hardships that our Government or this country is facing. So, without much ado, I want to thank –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member’s time expired.

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, at a time when our economy is doing very badly, and the national debt affecting each and every Zambian in this country, is taking us backwards to a level where we have to borrow to pay some workers and pay our loans, surely the mines should have come to save our country or the Government. Therefore, for someone to say that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is doing very well for this country, leaves much to be desired. I think such people are the same ones who mislead the Government of the day. Surely, the Movement for Multi-party Development (MMD) Government did far better in this regard than the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. The facts are there. For instance, what was the value of the Kwacha at the time of the MMD Government? How much were we benefitting from the minerals, if we look at the National Budgets under the MMD regime? However, somebody is now taking things very lightly by stating that the PF Government is doing better than the MMD Government. This is not true. This country is for all of us and we are here for serious business to make sure that, at least, we get what we deserve from our natural resources.

Mr Chairperson, frankly speaking, our country is endowed with a lot of natural resources. Minerals are such resources that the country should really benefit from, but look at the main Budget at the moment. We are expecting to get only about K5 billion from mineral resources. Why should this be the case when we have so much copper and other minerals? Instead, it is going outside the country. The price of copper on the international market has been very good of late, but what has been lacking is proper management.

Sir, as a country, we are not getting much from our minerals. Sometimes, I think it is even better if we did not have the minerals at all because we are supposed to benefit a lot from them, but we are not. Somebody was talking about a lot of gold being mined in this country, but do we see this reflected in the Budget? If we are getting so much gold, where is the money? What has happened to the gold mines and who are the shareholders? Everything that the PF gets involved in becomes a controversy.

Sir, as a country, we need to benefit from our minerals. We are not getting much from them. In fact, if you look at the Budget, the only stable source of income is from the workers. Workers are contributing about K12 billion while minerals, which we are well-known for throughout the world, are only giving us K5 billion. This is happening because there is a lot of mismanagement.

Mr Chairperson, there are two possibilities for not getting wealth from these minerals. Either the people who are negotiating these deals are not competent enough or they get something at a personal level while forsaking the country. These minerals have only benefitted foreigners or the investors. They have benefitted a lot while the country and the people of Zambian have nothing to talk about.

Sir, there is something seriously wrong for us to expect an amount of K5 billion from minerals when the total Budget is K119 billion. We need to change. Other small countries like Australia, Botswana and South Africa benefit a lot from their minerals. What is wrong with us? Why are we not patriotic enough to make sure that we get something out of these minerals? We have people with brains who can ensure that we get something reasonable from these mines, but that is not happening.

Mr Chairperson, one of the reasons the mine owners are complaining is inconsistency in the policy. They are failing to plan regarding a long-term strategy. There is a lot of inconsistency. Many people have asked us to be consistent with our policies so that the mining sector can expand. However, the ministry is supposed to be concerned about mines and minerals development but there is no development which is happening in the mines. We are going down as a country.

Sir, there is a clear example in Zimba District, which is a sister district to Kalomo. In Mapatizya we have a lot of amethyst but I do not think the Government collects any tax from that. People just go to dig and carry, and nobody is concerned. Where is the Government?

Mr Chairperson, there is a big problem of tax collection even when it comes to copper at the Copperbelt. Mine owners are not paying tax the way they are supposed to. This is where the Government is supposed to get money from and invest it into the economy so that we get the little that we deserve. However, mine owners who evade tax, go scot-free.

Mr Chairperson, ask accountants about the mines and they will tell you that mines do not benefit the country. We need to change the system and invest in a more rigorous tax systems which will enable us to collect what we are supposed to collect.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to debate the Vote on the Floor of the House. I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the statement on the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

Sir, as far as we know, Zambia has been dependent on copper mining production to survive. In the realm of foreign exchange, we continue to get about 70 per cent to 80 per cent foreign exchange from mining, especially copper. Anything that has to do with a reduction in mining affects our foreign exchange and this is clear now.

Sir, copper production was supposed to have increased from around 700,000 to 800,000 metric tonnes around 2011, when the Patriotic Front (PF) took over, to about 2 million metric tonnes, as my colleague said. However, it has stagnated at around 800,000 metric tonnes. That has negatively impacted our development and growth.

Mr Chairperson, right now, as far as we know, there is disinvestment in the mining sector. This has been prompted especially by inconsistencies in our mining tax regime. Secondly, there are other areas in the region which are offering better tax regimes that encourage investment. In the discussions that were going on involving an association that is connected with the mining sector suggest that if Zambia could be a bit more consistent with its tax regime and reduce certain taxes, we will see an avalanche of investment which will kick-start and grow our economy.

Mr Chairperson, the other area that I wanted to talk about is the excess capacity of smelters that we have in Zambia. Previously, we did not have that capacity. We used to take our concentrates to Namibia. Now, that we have that capacity in Zambia, instead of using it we are giving that advantage to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) because we are slapping a tax that is unnecessary. Therefore, people will not bring in concentrates because they will be slapped with a tax. What happens is that you have excess capacity and you are exporting jobs. The DRC has taken up that slack and is utilising it. It is making money instead of us who have built that capacity to make money. So, the hon. Minister should look into this and work with the Ministry of Finance to ensure that tax is removed so that we encourage the production and excess capacity which will be utilised in Zambia, hence, creating jobs in Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, another item which is of practical nature which I want to talk about is the wrangles which are going on at Kalengwa Mine in the North Western Province. There have been wrangles for years on end. This is the time for the Government to show leadership by ensuring that the mine starts operating for the benefit of the Zambians and locals. However, it has continued to postpone this issue. If the Government was showing leadership, that mine would have started producing so that people are employed, and growth comes out of it. We need that money from the copper mining like yesterday and the Government is there to show leadership. Kindly, go into Kalengwa and ensure that something is done. People should be engaged and production should start.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Musukwa: Mr Chairperson, I would like to sincerely thank all the hon. Members of Parliament who have contributed and supported this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I would have just ended at thanking them and proceeded, but I would like to clear some misconceptions that have been created. In many cases, they are based on lack of information.

Sir, let me start by responding to what the hon. Member for Kabompo said. I am very grateful for the support that he gave. Let me quickly go to the issue of production. It is true that the focus of the Government is to ensure that production hits in excess of 2 million tonnes, as a priority.

Mr Chairperson, in the last couple of years, and this has nothing to do with the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD), most mining houses especially the big ones like Mopani Copper Mine where undergoing a construction phase. In this phase, mines do not produce at optimal levels, but invest to ensure that they grow production after the construction level. This is the same thing that has been happening at the Konkola Copper Mines where it has been exploiting the resource at Konkola Deep Mining Project (KDMP). This project has been behind schedule for four years and I am surprised that it was being supported by some speakers. This is an investment pledge which was made by the investor to develop this resource and has been behind schedule. So, what is expected is that when four key operations that have been at construction stage begin to ramp up, this production will actually double and we are hoping to get more than the 2 million tonnes that has been projected.

Mr Chairperson, indeed, as a Government, we need to show consistency in terms of tax measures and the entire mechanism and incentives that we give to the mining industry in order to attract investment.

Sir, mining happens in the global space and we need to be competitive. I am glad that suggestions are coming from hon. Members of Parliament. We need to provide long-term incentives in the mining tax regime and stability which is anchored on the provisions of the law in order to guarantee investment. Mining investment requires a huge outlay of financial resources and this needs to be anchored on laws, and the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is anchored on those provisions.

Mr Chairperson, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central for his contribution. More importantly, stability in the fiscal regime is very critical, but I noticed that he was contradicting himself. However, it is good to know that Zambia’s comparative advantage is our mineral endowment. So, we need to make use of the resources in the mining sector and to invest in other sectors such as agriculture, tourism and construction. Yes, indeed, the Government has been working towards diversifying from copper to various minerals such as gold, gemstone and manganese. We need to promote diversification so that when there is a shock at an international market in terms of the copper business, we can rely on other various minerals, which as a country, we are endowed with.

Sir, I thank Hon. Daka for his contribution, and we will ensure that we increase our oversight role of inspecting mine safety and our physical presence across the country. Let me also thank Hon. Tutwa for the support. He responded adequately to Hon. Dr Musokotwane, except that I want to indicate that Hon. Dr Musokotwane is one of Zambia’s eminent sons of the soil, who has served this country with diligence for many years, but he is sometimes driven by politics. Hon. Dr Musokotwane presided over the sale of Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), which has been a shame for many years and has been referred to as –

Interruptions

Mr Musukwa: To date, Zambians speak about the US$25 million at which KCM was sold for a song and I am surprised that –

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Minister’s time expired.

VOTE 14 – (Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development – K466,793,402).

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I have a query on this Vote. There are oil fields in Kabompo, Kayombo area, Chavuma and Zambezi West and we have been talking about the exploration of mines. Is there any specific activity that the Government expects as an outcome from the exploration of these areas, so that we can start seeing investments in those areas?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Chairperson, yes, indeed, there are various oil blocks in Zambia, including Kabompo. Private investors are exploiting these oil blocks and the Government’s role is to provide oversight. In the budget, there is an excess of K500,000 for our technical team to carry out supervisions, but the investors are the ones who are working. We hope to get good results in those areas, including in the hon. Member’s constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

VOTE 14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

_______

The House adjourned at 1657 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 21^st October, 2020.

____________

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