DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 20th November, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_________

RULING BY THE HON MR SPEAKER ON THE COMPLAINT LODGED BY HON JACOB JACK MWIIMBU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MONZE CENTRAL PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY AGAINST MR OPPER HAMIYANZE

Mr Speaker: Hon Members, on Thursday, 18th October, 2012, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly received a letter of complaint from Hon. Jacob Jack Mwiimbu, Member of Parliament for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency, against Mr Opper Hamiyanze.

The letter of complaint read as follows:

“Dear Madam

“COMPLAINT AGAINST MR OPPER HAMIYANZE

“I refer to the above captioned and to the point of order I raised on the Floor of the August House pertaining to the delivery of the Budget Speech by the Acting President and Minister of Finance.

“I wish to bring to your attention that today, 18th October, 2012, a Mr Hamiyanze, during the open forum debate on Radio Sky FM, made disparaging, defamatory and scandalous remarks against me pertaining to the point of order I raised in my privileged position as a Member of Parliament. He alleges that I was intoxicated with alcoholic drinks when I was raising the aforesaid point of order. He further alleges that it is common for Members of Parliament to come into the House with alcoholic drinks. He disparaged my point of order and questioned my integrity vis-à-vis my point of order.  

“It has to be noted that the disparaging remarks that have been made against me were aired to the nation bringing my reputation and that of Parliament into disrepute contrary to the provisions of Section 3 and 25 of the Parliamentary Privileges Act.

“In the premise and in line with my parliamentary privileges, I raise a complaint against the said Mr Hamiyanze.

“Yours faithfully,

“Mwiimbu Jacob Jack, MP
MONZE CENTRAL CONSTITUENCY” 

Hon Members, I, accordingly referred the matter to the Committee on Privileges, Absences, and Support Services for consideration.  

In line with parliamentary practice and procedure and the rules of natural justice, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly wrote to Mr Opper Hamiyanze, bringing to his attention the complaint lodged by the hon. Member and requesting him to state his position on the matter.  

The response from Mr Hamiyanze reads as follows

“Dear Madam,

“RE: COMPLAINT AGAINST MYSELF BY JACK MWIMBU, MONZE CENTRAL MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT

“In respect to the above subject matter, I am in receipt of a letter reference No. NAS/11/17/2 dated 2nd November, 2012. First, kindly make amends to my first name which is Opper, and not Oppah.

“In your letter, you attached the letter of complaint from Mr Jack Mwiimbu which alleges that during an open forum debate on Sky FM Radio aired on 18th October, 2012, I made disparaging, defamatory and scandalous remarks against him regarding the point of order he, Jack Mwiimbu, raised on the Floor of the House relating to the delivery of the Budget Speech by then Acting President and Minister of Finance, Hon Alexander Chikwanda, MP.

“Going by the above, I hereby want to state to you, Madam, that, in many fora, I have been privileged to debate matters of governance even in my personal capacity. The issues I have raised, among others, are:

    “(a)    failure by the hon. Opposition Members of Parliament to consolidate the efforts of the Patriotic Front Government to improve the lives of the electorate;

    “(b)    attempts by the hon. Opposition Members of Parliament to make this country ungovernable by trying to shoot down the Budget, tearing the Presidential Speech and making running commentaries, hence delaying the acceleration of service delivery to the poor and the general citizenry; 

    “(c)    the scheme by the hon. Opposition Members of Parliament to walk out unnecessarily at the expense of engaging the Government in a more mature manner. The hon. Members have continued to draw sitting allowances even when they boycott the sittings. Isn’t that obtaining money by false pretense?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

    “(d)    failure by the Opposition Members of Parliament to inform their electorate the real Government position on economic and policy direction and many other issues. 

    “I would take the whole day if I were to tackle them one by one.

Laughter

    “Given the above matters, I wish to state that I am not privy to the recording of that same programme. I would be grateful if I could be given the same to give you the correct position. 
    
“Otherwise, I have a duty, as a citizen, to help the Patriotic Front Government and the President of Zambia, His Excellency Michael Chilufya Sata to consolidate and deliver to the people of Zambia.

    “Yours faithfully,

    “Opper Hamiyanze

    “CITIZEN OF ZAMBIA” 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The House may further wish to know that the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly also wrote to SKY FM Radio, requesting it for a copy of the recording of Mr Hamiyanze’s contribution during the ‘Open Forum Debate’. SKY FM Radio accordingly availed the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly a copy of the recording of the programme in question.

In his contribution to the open forum debate, Mr Hamiyanze referred to Hon. Mwiimbu and to the House, in general, in a derogatory manner. He, among other things, stated as follows:

“The Opposition Members of Parliament that we have in this country are exhibiting childishness at the expense of matters that are very important to the people of this country.”

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

“My fear is that when the hon. Opposition Members of Parliament go to debate national matters in Parliament, they are not sober. They take brandy and whisky …  

Laughter

“… before they go into Parliament to debate national matters. It is very disgraceful in Africa to have such Members of Parliament.

“It is clear, madam, that when Hon. Chikwanda, the Minister of Finance, is acting President, his Deputy Minister automatically becomes the acting Minister of Finance. In this case, it is Hon. Miles Sampa. 

Laughter

“There was no basis on which hon. Members of Parliament could have walked out when they know that Hon. Chikwanda is acting President and Hon. Miles Sampa is acting Minister of Finance. 

Laughter

“It is trivial, embarrassing and disgraceful for the hon. Members of Parliament to have walked out on a very important and pertinent matter that they needed to discuss to deliver development in this country.” 

Hon Members, when asked by the interviewer to cite specific examples of hon. Members of Parliament who had carried whisky and brandy into the House … 

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … or reported to the House in a drunken state, Mr Hamiyanze, among other things, stated as follows:

“Jack Mwiimbu moved a Motion when he was not sober in his mind. Even from the way he was articulating matters.” 

Laughter

Mr Speaker: When prompted further by the interviewer to justify his claim that hon. Members usually reported to the House in a drunken state, since his statement was not based on medical facts, Mr Hamiyanze, among other things, stated: 

“You do not have to be a doctor to know that a person is not sober. These MPs are never sober when they are in Parliament discussing national matters.

Laughter

“This is the more reason they have failed to deliver development. There is no seriousness. There is no suspicion. I am talking about facts.”

Further asked whether it was not the hon. Members’ right to walk out of the House since they had not been officially informed on who was going to act in the place of the Minister of Finance, Hon. Alexander Chikwanda, Mr Hamiyanze, among other things, stated as follows:

“They have double standards, these hon. Members of Parliament. The procedure is that before a Motion is brought into Parliament, it is circulated twenty-four-hours prior to the discussion … So, it is wrong to say that they were not notified. It is playing double standards. It is lack of seriousness. 

“I urge the hon. Opposition Members of Parliament that if they are not ready to develop this country, I think it is only morally right for them to resign.”

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Hon Members, the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services met to determine          the matter.  Hon. Mwiimbu, as a complainant, was summoned to appear before the Committee to state and clarify his complaint. Likewise, Mr Hamiyanze also appeared before the Committee to exculpate himself. The Committee also listened to the audio recording.  

In its deliberations, the Committee observed that Hon. Mwiimbu’s complaint raised the following issues:

(a)an outsider interfering with a Member’s freedom of speech and debate in the House; 

(b)an outsider making disparaging remarks against a Member; 

(c)an outsider showing intentional disregard and disrespect to the National Assembly; and

(d)an outsider intimidating and molesting a Member on account of his/her conduct during proceedings of the House.

The Committee referred to Section 3 of the National Assembly, Powers and Privileges Act, which protects the freedom of speech and debate in the Assembly. The Committee also referred to the well-known authors on Parliamentary Practice and Procedure, S. L. Shakdher and M. N. Kaul, in their book entitled Practice and Procedure of Parliament, Sixth Edition, at page 293, that states that:

“It is a breach of privilege and contempt of the House to make speeches or to print or publish libels, reflecting on the character or proceedings of the House ... .”

The Committee also referred to Section 19 (e) of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act, which says that: 

“Any person shall be guilty of an offence who commits any other or intentional disrespect to or with reference to the proceedings of the Assembly or to any person presiding at such proceedings.”

Hon. Members, after carefully examining the written and oral submissions of the parties which are involved in the issue, and all the mitigating factors presented to it, the Committee established that:

(a)by questioning and ridiculing the point of order raised on the Floor of the House by Hon. Mwiimbu, Mr Hamiyanze had interfered with the hon. Member’s freedom of speech and debate in the House;

(b)     by stating that Hon. Mwiimbu was not sober in his mind when he raised the point of order, Mr Hamiyanze made disparaging, defamatory and scandalous remarks against the hon. Member; and

(c)     by stating that hon. Members of Parliament were: 

(i)never sober when debating important national issues in Parliament because, as a matter of fact, they consumed brandy and whisky before entering the House; 

(ii)disgraceful in their conduct as hon. Members;

(iii)trivial, embarrassing and disgraceful in their conduct of parliamentary business; and

(iv)playing double standards and lacked seriousness.

Mr Hamiyanze intentionally showed disrespect to the House, as a whole. 

In addition, the Committee found that his comments on the radio programme were aimed at intimidating and molesting hon. Members in the execution of their duties as the people’s representatives.

The Committee thus found him guilty of the breach of parliamentary privilege and in contempt of the House. 

In determining the punishment to impose on him, the Committee took into account that he was a first offender. However, the Committee was appalled that in spite of the enormity of the offence he had committed, his demeanor before it was that of arrogance and devoid of any remorse, whatsoever, for the statements he made against Hon. Mwiimbu, MP and the House, as a whole. 

In view of this, the Committee recommended that he be:

(a)banned from entering the precincts of the House for the remainder of the Second Session of the Eleventh National Assembly; and

(b)    severely reprimanded before the House in accordance with Section 28 (3) of the National Assembly ( Powers and Privileges) Act. 

Question that Mr Opper Hamiyanze be reprimanded before the House, as recommended by the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services, put and agreed to.

Mr Speaker: Will the Sergeant-At-Arms, please, bring to the Bar, Mr Opper Hamiyanze. 

Mr Opper Hamiyanze was escorted to the Bar by the Sergeant-At-Arms.

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Mr Hamiyanze, the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services found you guilty of the breach of parliamentary privileges and in gross contempt of the House for your disrespectful and unwarranted utterances against Hon. Mwiimbu and the House, as a whole, during your telephone interview on Thursday, 18th October, 2012.  

I have to inform you that the House is extremely displeased with your disparaging, defamatory, and demeaning utterances against Hon. Mwiimbu and the House, in general. You need to realise that though you enjoy freedom of expression, as a citizen of this country, this freedom is not absolute. It comes with responsibilities and ends where other people’s freedoms and rights begin. In this regard, in future, you should be mindful that the freedom of expression, which you have been enjoying in taking part in governance discussions and programmes, does not extend to bringing hon. Members of this august House into ridicule or disrepute. 

You ought to know that the National Assembly is a constitutional institution whose hon. Members are elected by the people of Zambia. This institution is one of the cornerstones of democracy. As such, it deserves respect from the general public. Therefore, the House finds it appalling that you had the courage to refer to it, and the hon. Members as being childish, disgraceful, embarrassing and trivial in the conduct of their parliamentary duties and business, and, also, to especially state, as a matter of fact, that the hon. Members of the Opposition consume alcohol before they report to the House, and hence are usually in a drunken state during parliamentary proceedings. You should know that not only did your utterances undermine the privileges of the House, but also amounted to an affront to its dignity and honour.

Further, I have to inform you that, when you appeared before the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services, your demeanor was that of arrogance and devoid of any remorse. I have to also inform you that this House has powers, under the law, to punish any person who violates its privileges and obstructs its smooth operations. I, therefore, strongly reprimand you and implore you to refrain from such conduct in future.

In the name and authority of this House, let me inform you that, in addition to the reprimand, you are barred from entering the precincts of the National Assembly of Zambia for the remainder of the Second Session of the Eleventh National Assembly.

Hon. Members, before I order him to render his apology to the hon. Member for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency, Hon. Mwiimbu, and the House, as a whole, let me, once again, urge the public to familiarise themselves with the practices and procedures of the House, as well as the rights, privileges and immunities enjoyed by its hon. Members. The House shall not hesitate to mete out the appropriate punishment against any member of the public who offends it.

I now order you, Mr Opper Hamiyanze, to unreservedly apologise to the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency, Hon. Mwiimbu, and to the House, for the disparaging, defamatory, disrespectful and contemptuous remarks you made in a telephone interview on Sky FM Radio, on 18th October, 2012.

Mr Opper Hamiyanze: Mr Speaker, I, Opper Hamiyanze, do undeservingly apologise to this House for the disparaging remarks I made on a Sky FM Radio programme entitled ‘Open Forum’ on 18th October, 2012 against the hon. Member of Parliament, Hon. Mwiimbu, and the House, as a whole.

Sir, I have reflected on my irresponsible remarks and found them to be disrespectful and demeaning to Hon. Mwiimbu and, indeed, the House, as a whole.

Mr Speaker, I have carefully listened to your severe reprimand and the guidance that you have given me. With the indulgence of the House, I wish to assure this august House that, in future, I shall endeavor to conduct myself in a more responsible and respectful manner.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I now order you, Mr Hamiyanze, to leave the House through the main door, and to immediately vacate the precincts of the National Assembly of Zambia.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamiyanze left the Assembly Chamber.

__________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that, as part of the Members’ Parliament Football Team’s continued preparations for competitive matches, a friendly match has been arranged with the Institute of Directors of Zambia. This match will take place on Friday, 23rd November, 2012, at 1500 hours, at the National Housing Authority (NHA) football pitch in the Showgrounds. All members of the team are, therefore, expected to turn up for training in preparation for this match.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

NDOLA ROADS REHABILITATION

266. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when Ndola City Council would rehabilitate the following roads to bituminous standard:
    (a)    Masala Secondary School/Kaloko;
    (b)    Main Masala Market/Masala Secondary School; and
    (c)    Ndola City Centre via Chipulukusu Township/Kanyanje Township.
The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kufuna): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the road from Masala Secondary School/Kaloko was partially worked on by a contractor under a Formula I contract. However, due to some contractual issues, the contract has since been suspended and will be re-tendered soon.

Sir, the Main Masala Market/Masala Secondary School Road has been placed on a programme for performance contract scheduled for implementation next year. The road from Ndola City Centre via Chipulukusu Township to Kanyanje Township has been earmarked for rehabilitation next year.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, Muyombe and Kaomba roads are along the road that leads to Kanyanje Township. May I know whether the Government intends to rehabilitate the same roads under the programme which begins next year.

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, 20 km of the road is earmarked for upgrading to bituminous standard next year. I hope that this stretch is among the lucky ones. 

I thank you, Sir. 

POLLING STATION DESIGNATION IN MULOBEZI

267. Mr Sililo (Mulobezi) asked the Vice-President when the following places in Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency would be designated polling stations by the Electoral Commission of Zambia: 

(a)Mbulwe;

(b)Mbulumina; and

(c)Nanga.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Kalaba): Mr Speaker, the mentioned places in Mulobezi Constituency can be considered as polling stations when the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) undertakes the delimitation of polling districts. However, the local stakeholders would have to be consulted so that they endorse the matter. 

I thank you, Sir. 

_____ 

BILLS

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

THE RE-DOMINATION OF CURRENCY BILL, 2012

Clauses 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18 and 19 ordered to stand part of the Bill. 

Title agreed to. 

_____ 

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Re-Domination of Currency Bill, 2012

Third Reading, on Wednesday, 21st November, 2012. 

______ {mospagebreak}

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

The Chairperson: When business was adjourned on Friday, 16th November, 2012, the Committee of Supply on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the year 1st January, 2013, to 31st December, 2013, presented to the House in October, 2012, had concluded the policy debate on Head 18 – Judiciary. Before we move on to the individual items under that Head, I call upon the hon. Minister of Finance to clarify something.

 Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for allowing me to provide more clarification on the issue that arose on the Floor of the House in relation to the adoption of the well-established practice of rounding off decimalised figures in budget estimates.

Sir, I wish to re-iterate that the figures in the Budget database are captured up to the level of ngwee. However, this House may recall that, when activity-based budgeting (ABB) was first introduced, in 2003, the Government consulted with the Legislature, through the Committee on Estimates, regarding the format for presenting the Yellow Book to the National Assembly. The Committee on Estimates approved the ABB format for the Yellow Book, which included the rounding off of ngwee figures to the nearest kwacha. Therefore, all ngwee figures in the Yellow Books have always been rounded off to the nearest kwacha since 2004, when the first ABB format Yellow Book was presented to this House. I will lay on the Table extracts of similarly rounded-off figures from the budgets for the last eight years, and the 2009 to 2011 Yellow Books, which were successfully debated and approved by this House.

Mr Chairperson, you will note that, for example, on page 143 of the 2011 Yellow Book, under the Ministry of Home Affairs, the total for Programme 02 – General Administration, was rounded off. This is also the case on page 131 of the 2010 Yellow Book, under the Ministry of Energy and Water Development and, on page 457 of the 2009 Yellow Book, under the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, to mention but a few.

Sir, you will also note, with great interest, perhaps, that these extracts also include rounded-off figures under the ministries of Agriculture, and Local Government and Housing during the years when the hon. Member of Parliament for Vubwi, who has thirty years of enormous experience as a statistician, was the responsible hon. Minister. He fervently presented and defended these Budget estimates …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: … on the Floor of this House, although, today, he does not, perhaps, for very good reasons, want to understand the well-established mathematical principles on the rounding off of decimalised figures.

Mr Chairperson, the fact of the matter is that this is not the first time we have used the rounding-off method as this principle was used for all Budgets that were debated and approved by this august House between 2004 and 2012.

Sir, may I also mention that the rounding off of decimalised figures is a common practice for financial recording and reporting worldwide, and need not be the basis for further delay of the approval of the 2013 Budget. 

Mr Chairperson, in view of the foregoing, and in the interest of progress, I have proposed necessary amendments on all areas of the 2013 Budget yet to be debated that are affected by the rounding-off principle. However, I wish to assure the House that the use of the rounding-off principle will not alter the total budget at all. I, therefore, hope that this action will put to rest any protracted debate regarding the rounding off of decimalised figures in the 2013 Budget.

Sir, in going forward together, especially in the wake of the rebasing of the kwacha, the Treasury will be coming back to consult the hon. Members of this House on the format of the future Yellow Book, which is likely to be presented to this House with ngwee figures. 

Hon. Opposition Members interjected.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I need protection from my colleagues.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

That is, precisely, what makes us seem to be very hard, sometimes. I deliberately kept quiet, but you can see that the hon. Minister got disturbed. It is only right that the hon. Members are quiet and listen so that the hon. Minister goes on with his work uninterrupted.

Can you, please, continue, hon. Minister?

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Chikwanda: I hope that the hon. Members will rise to the occasion and provide the necessary guidance on an appropriate format that will not cause any misunderstandings amongst us in the House.

Finally, Sir, I am sure that all my hon. Colleagues will deem it their duty, obligation and responsibility to accept my submissions made in good faith to clarify what were essentially minor misunderstandings in relation to decimals. It is desirable that we move forward together as we address various intractable problems that are common afflictions of our long-suffering people.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you most sincerely.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda laid the paper on the Table.

The Chairperson: With that clarification, we move on to individual items under that Head.

Mr Kambwili: Vubwi, ama budget yenu, aya!

The Chairperson: Order!

VOTE 18/01 – (Judiciary – Headquarters – K60,233,206,833).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under unit 01 – Human Resources and Administration, Programme 4000 – Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programme Total K28,035,936,263 and the substitution therefor of K28,035,936,262.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 18/01, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/04 – (Judiciary – Subordinate Court – K9,660,866,696).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment to the following amendment: 

Unit 01 Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme: 4000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K6,375,366,696 and the substitution therefor of K6,375,366,695.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 18/04, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 18/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/06 – (Judiciary – Small Claims Courts – K2,415,581,714).

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4037. In the 2012 Budget, there was a provision of K40,000,000 for Inspection, Monitoring and Evaluation, but I see no provision for that particular activity in next year’s Budget. Why is that so?

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Chairperson, this activity has been budgeted for under Programme 4037 of Department 01.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 18/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/07 – (Judiciary – Sheriff of Zambia – K2,227,629,306).

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4015, Activity 002 – Court Sessions – Nil and Activity 003 – Execution and Service of Court Process – Nil. In the 2012 Budget, there was a provision of K100,000,000 for each activity, but I do not see any provisions for next year. What is the reason for this?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4015, Activity 002 – Court Sessions, has been budgeted for under Programme 4015, Activity 002. As for Activity 003 – Execution and Service of Court Process, this is budgeted for under Programme 4015, Activity 003.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 016 – House Rental and Warehouse – Nil. Why is there no allocation in the 2013 Budget?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, this programme has been budgeted for under Programme 4081, Activity 001.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 18/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE18/08 – (Judiciary – Industrial Relations Court – K5,422,639,594).

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4002, Activity 023 – World Aids Day – Nil. In the 2012 Budget, there is an allocation of K50,000,000, but there is no allocation in next year’s Budget. The other concern is on Programme 4015, Activity 002 – Court Sessions – Nil. In last year’s Budget, this activity was allocated K220,000,000, but there is no allocation for the same programme in the 2013 Budget. Why is this so?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4002, Activity 023 – World Aids Day will be undertaken under Programme 4002 under Department One. Programme 4015, Activity 002 – Court Sessions, has been budgeted for under Programme 4015 Unit 02 – Court Operations.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 18/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/11 – (Judiciary – Subordinate Courts – Copperbelt – K7,976,835,005).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Unit 01 Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme 4000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K5,870,777,760 and the substitution therefor of K5,870,777,759.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 18/11, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/12 – (Judiciary – Local Courts – Copperbelt – K17,971,914,905).

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 011  –  …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

I have no problem with people consulting quietly, but I get concerned once the consultations are way above normal. Please, can we consult quietly. 

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Namulambe: … Rehabilitation of Buildings – K600,000,000. Sir, on the Copperbelt Province, most of the local court buildings are in a deplorable state. Is this K600,000,000 allocation in the 2013 Budget enough to rehabilitate those dilapidated structures on the Copperbelt?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, quite obviously, this is not adequate due to budgetary constraints. However, we will do what we can to address the situation.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 18/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/15 – (Judiciary – Local Courts – Central Province – K8,761,961,612).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

 Vote 18/15 under 01 – Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme 4000 – Personnel Emoluments by the deletion of the programme total of K4,858,532,410 and the substitution therefor of K4,858,532,409.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 18/15, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/17 – (Judiciary – Subordinate Courts – Northern Province – K2,578,228,260).

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4000, Activity 001 – Salaries Division I – K289,133,376 and Activity 002 – Salaries Division II – K295,063,514. I have seen that there are reductions in the salaries. Also, on …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, order!

The problem is we are behaving like we are in a situation whereby a headmaster always has to stand up to tell the pupils to keep quiet. Just a few seconds after I say, “Order!” you begin consulting loudly. I am referring to people on my right. That is extremely bad. Please, consult quietly.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4085, Activity 001 – House Rentals for Adjudicators – K450,000,000. Why are there reductions in the allocations for salaries and staff accommodation when we are crying for more staff in the Judiciary so as to serve the people better? 

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, I would like to remind the hon. Member that the Northern Province was split into two provinces. So, some of the staff have been budgeted for under Muchinga Province. The same applies to the provision for house rentals.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao: Mr Chairperson, I seek further explanation on the activities on the same page. Is the Northern Province now going to suffer because of Muchinga Province?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, the Northern Province is not going to suffer. It is just that we have split up the personnel. Some have remained in the Northern Province and others have gone to Muchinga Province.
I thank you, Sir.

Vote 18/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/18 – (Judiciary – Local Courts – Northern Province – K12,666,527,820). 

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

 Vote 18/18 under 01 – Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme 4000 – Personnel Emoluments by the deletion of the programme total of K10,754,527,820 and the substitution therefor of K10,754,527,821.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 18/18, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/22 – (Judiciary – High Courts – Eastern Province – K3,438,971,708).

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, my concern is on Programme 4002 – Events – K80,000,000. I notice that there is no provision for Independence Day and Public Service Day celebrations as is the case in other Government departments or spending agencies. Why is this the case?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4002 – Events – K80,000,000, those activities have been budgeted for under Programme 4001 – General Administration – K97,000,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, I would like an explanation on Programme 4002, Activity 005 – Ceremonial Opening of High Court – K40,000,000. Why is there a reduction in the amount of money allocated for the ceremonial opening of the high court?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4002, Activity 005 – Ceremonial Opening of High Court – K40,000,000, that is essentially due to budgetary constraints.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 18/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/23 – (Judiciary – Subordinate Courts – Eastern Province – K5,513,502,006).

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, on page 411, Programme 4105, Activity 001 – Revenue Inspection – K100,000,000. This year, there was a provision of K450 million for this activity, but only K100,000,000 is proposed for next year. Why is there such a huge reduction?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, it was discovered that the amount budgeted for will be adequate. This year, the activity was given more than was adequate.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4085, Activity 001 – House Rentals for Adjudicators – K495,000,000. Why is this coming out as an isolated activity?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4085, Activity 001 – House Rentals for Adjudicators – K495,000,000, the allocation in question has been reflected in that manner because of the coding system which we have been advised to use by the Ministry of Finance.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 18/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/24 – (Judiciary – Local Courts – Eastern Province – K10,782,649,213).

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012 – Activity 072 – Construction of Mukhanya, Mushaba and Chikomeni Local Court – Nil. K500,000,000 was budgeted for that activity in the 2012 Budget, but there is nothing in the 2013 Budget. Has the ministry completed the construction of these structures, especially Mukhanya Local Court?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, funds have been released this year for the construction of Mukhanya Local Court. We are just waiting for certificates of completion.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 18/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/28 – (Judiciary – Local Courts – North-Western Province – K11,161,062,713).

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4037, Activity 003 – Monitoring & Evaluation of Programmes – Nil. Wherever there is a budget for infrastructure development, there is also one for monitoring and evaluation. This year, K80,000,000 was budgeted for monitoring and evaluation and K2.5 billion for construction works. Next year, there is nothing for monitoring and evaluation, and yet there is K2.4 billion for construction works. Why is this aspect of the budget different to what has been provided for other provinces?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, that has been budgeted for under Vote18/01, Programme 4037, Activity 003 – Monitoring and & Evaluation of Programmes – K500,000,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012 – Infrastructure Development, Programme Total – K2,400,000,000. Unlike in the budget for this year, the ministry has not specified which local courts are going to be constructed using next year’s Budget. It has just put a lump sum for that activity in the budget. May I know which local courts will be constructed.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, the local courts, which will be constructed in the North-Western Province, are in Kabompo, Mukandakunda in Zambezi, Mwinilunga, Makungu and Likungu in Zambezi.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 18/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/29 – (Judiciary – High Court – Western Province – K639,841,776).

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4000 – Personal Emoluments – K57,841,776. Why is there no Division III for the allocation to this province when it appears in the other provinces? Secondly, may I have clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K48,000,000 and on Programme 4035, Activity 005 – Transport Management – K66,000,000. May I know why the figures are so low in this province for these two activities? The departmental total is 639,841,776 which is almost a quarter of what other provinces have been allocated. Why is this so?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, first of all, the High Court in Mongu is headed by the Deputy Registrar who is in Division II and the rest are classified daily employees (CDEs). Secondly, there are only a few members of staff for the High Court in the Western Province. That is the establishment. Thus, the allocation is adequate.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Vote 18/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/30 – (Judiciary – Subordinate Court – Western Province – K3,388,163,609).

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 091 – Construction of Shang’ombo Subordinate Court – Nil. This year, that activity has an allocation of K500,000,000, but there is nothing for it next year. I also seek clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 012 – Construction of Court Buildings – K600,000,000. Which courts are going to be constructed under that allocation?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4012, Activity 091 – Construction of Shang’ombo Subordinate Court – Nil, the funds for this year have been released to complete the structure. Under the same programme, Activity 012 – Construction of Court Buildings – K600,000,000, is meant for the construction of a subordinate court in Sesheke.

Thank you, Sir.

Vote 18/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/31 – (Judiciary – Local Courts – Western Province – K17, 750,485,839).

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 012 – Construction of Court Buildings – K600, 000,000. May I know the local courts which will be constructed in the Western Province?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4012, Activity 012 – Construction of Court Buildings – K600, 000,000, the local courts to be constructed in the Western Province are at Namahenya in Mongu, Mabenga in Mulobezi, TBZ Local Court in Kaoma, Katima in Sesheke and Mbanga in Lukulu.

Thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 161 – Construction of Sulilu, Naloko, Sikombwe and Sishekanu Local Courts – Nil. For 2012, K500,000,000 was allocated, but was never released and, therefore, the courts have not been constructed. What plan does the ministry have to construct courts in the above-mentioned areas? I am certain that the court at Sishekanu has not been constructed.

Thank you, Sir.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, tenders have been awarded. The funds have already been released and construction works are due to commence soon.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4002, Activity 010 – International Women’s Day – K20,000,000. This year, this activity was allocated K60,000,000. Under the same programme, may I also have clarification on Activity 012 – Labour Day Celebrations – K40,000,000. This year, the allocation was K50,000,000. Lastly, still under the same programme, may I have clarification on Activity 023 – World Aids Day – Nil. This year, the allocation was K50,000,000. Why  are there reductions in the allocations for the first two activities and no allocation at all for the World Aids Day?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 4002, Activity 010 – K20,000,000 and Activity 012 – Labour Day Celebrations – K40,000,000, the reductions are due to budgetary constraints. As for Activity 023 – World Aids Day – Nil, it will be undertaken under Programme 4001.

Thank you, Sir.

Vote 18/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 18/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 18/36 – (Judiciary – Local Court – Muchinga Province – K4,624,908,519).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under Unit 01 Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme – 4000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K2,607,908,518 and the substitution therefor of K2,607,908,517.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 18/36, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Chairperson: I cannot pass without commending the hon. Deputy Minister of Justice for his answers. He anticipated the questions. The people advising him today have been sharp. That cannot go without commendation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon, Members, we now move to individual items under Vote 17. You will recall that, when business was adjourned, we had finished dealing with Head 17/06. We will now go to Head 17/07.

VOTE – 17/07 (Ministry of Foreign Affairs – Mission Abroad – Cairo – K4,819,015,765).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(a)    under Unit 02 – Human Resource and Administration Unit, Programme 3000 – Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,629,201,385 and the substitution therefor of K4,629,201,384; and

(b)    under Unit 02 – Human Resource and Administration Unit, Programme 3001 – General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K115,611,111 and the substitution therefor of K115,611,112.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 17/08, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote17/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/18 ordered of stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

VOTE 17/30 – (Ministry of Foreign Affairs – Mission Abroad – Harare – K6,058,361,796).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under Unit 02 – Human Resource and Administration Unit, Programme 3001 – General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K163,238,986 and the substitution therefor of K163,238,987.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 17/31, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 17/36 – (Ministry of Foreign Affairs – Missions Abroad – Paris – K8,250,063,253).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under  Unit 02 – Human Resource and Administration Unit, Programme 3001 – General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K236,938,299 and the substitution therefor of K236,938,300.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 17/36, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 17/39 – (Ministry of Foreign Affairs – Zambia Anti-Personnel Mine Action Centre –K2,465,444,015)

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

under Unit 01 – Zambia Mine Action Centre, Programme 3079 – Zambia Mine Action Programme, by the deletion  of Programme Total K935,250,341 and the substitution therefor of K935,250,342.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 346, Programme 3079, Activity 006 – Quality Assurance Control – K1,576,167. In this year’s Budget, there is a provision of K322,500, but that figure has been raised to K1,576,167 for next year. In spite of the increase, will this amount, really, facilitate the execution of Activity 006. 
Further, under Activity 010 – Cluster Munitions Programme – K789,581,395, in this year’s Budget, the allocation is K15 million. Why has it been raised to K789,581,395? 

The Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs (Dr Lungu): Mr Chairperson, the K789,581,395 under Activity 010 is required to meet the cost of the United Nations Cluster Munitions Programme. The increase is due to the planned hosting of a Cluster Munitions Conference. 

Sir, the K1,576,167 under Activity 006 is required to meet the cost of accreditation and monitoring of de-mining exercises in order to achieve acceptable levels of clearance of land to both the Central Government and local authorities. The increase in the allocation is due to the need to increase Quality Assurance Control for de-mining exercises.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I appreciate the answer, but I seek clarification whether that K1.5 million will, really, be enough for Quality Assurance Control in such an important programme.

Dr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, it might not be enough but, due to Budget constraints, we have been necessitated to budget under that line.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 17/39, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 17/40 – (Ministry of Foreign Affairs – Development and International Organisations – K2,626,438,830).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(a)under Unit 02 – Development Co-operation, Programme 3038 – International Relations, by the deletion of Programme Total K216,606,963 and the substitution therefor of K216,606,962;

(b)under Unit 03 – International Organisations, Programme 3038 – International Relations, by the deletion of Programme Total K347,529,492 and the substitution therefor of K347,529,493; and

(c)under Unit 04 – Regional Integration Unit, Programme 3038 – International Relations, by the deletion of Programme Total K205,840,382 and the substitution therefor of K205,840,384.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 350, Programme 3038, Activity – 028 – Technical Co-operation – INTOSAI – K6,995,808. This year, we had K18 million provided for that Activity, but there is a reduction of almost two-thirds in the proposed amount for next year. What is the reason for this particular reduction?

Dr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, Programme 3038, Activity – 028 – Technical Co-operation – INTOSAI – K6,995,808, this provision is required to meet the cost of participation of officers at the Technical Co-operation Meeting. The decrease is due to the reduced number of officers to attend the meeting.

I thank you, Sir.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 17/40, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 17/41 – (Ministry of Foreign Affairs – Protocol Department – K1,925,378,116)

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(a)under 01 – State Functions/ Consular Directorate, Programme 3018 – Consular Services, by the deletion of Programme Total K80,109,841 and the substitution therefor of K80,109,840; and

(b)under Unit 02 – State Functions, Programme 3061 – Protocol Services, by the deletion of Programme Total K387,794,206 and the substitution therefor of K387,794,205.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 17/41, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 17/42 – (Ministry of Foreign Affairs – Political Affairs Department – K2,607,857,685)

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(a)under Unit 04 – Asia and Pacific, Programme 3014 – Bilateral Relations Between Zambia and the Asia and Pacific Region, by the deletion of Programme Total K148,048,228 and the substitution therefor of K148,048,227; and

(b)under Unit 05 – European Affairs, Programme 3014 – Bilateral and Multilateral Relations Between Zambia and the European Region, by the deletion of Programme Total K103,188,797 and the substitution therefor of K103,188,798.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 17/42, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/45 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 17/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 17/49 – (Ministry of Foreign Affairs – Office of National Co-ordinator for the Great Lakes Region – K1,366,663,443).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(a)Under Unit 01 Human Resource and Administration Unit, Programme: 3014 Bilateral and Multilateral Relations, by the delegation of Programme Total K97,405,639 and the substitution therefor of K97,405,640; and

(b) under Unit 01 Human Resource and Administration Unit, Programmes: 3055 Peace and Stability Building, by the deletion of Programme Total K31,054,490 and the substitution therefor of K31,054, 491. 

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 3000, Activity 002 – Salaries Division 11 – K2,698,049. I see that there is a proposed provision for next year of K2,698,049 which is the annual salary for Division II. May I get clarification on that amount. 

Further, according to the establishment register, which was circulated to all of us, that particular Vote only has a provision for one member of staff. Why do we have Salaries Division, 1, 11 and wages?

Dr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, this provision is required for the administrative handling of the position and not for paying salaries. An officer will be seconded from the ministry headquarters.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I asked a second question. The establishment register, in particular Page 186, indicates that there is only one position that has been indicated to support this Budget line. May I have clarification on that.

Dr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, one member of staff has been promoted and moved to the headquarters.

I thank you, Sir.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly. 

Vote 17/49, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/50 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 17/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, if you look at your Order Paper, you will see that the last item on our agenda is the Ministry of Home Affairs. However, you will recall that we had finished the policy debate on that Head and got stuck when we reached a particular Head. I suggest that we now move onto individual items under the Ministry of Home Affairs, starting with Vote 15/22. So, we will go to individual items under the Ministry of Home affairs.

VOTE 15/22 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Eastern Province – Passport and Citizenship – K239,753,398). 

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment: 

(a)under 01 Human Resource Administration Unit, Programme: 4001 General Administration, Activity 003 Office Administration, by the deletion of K97,418,481 and the substitution therefor of K 130,987,502;

(b)under 01 Human Resource Administration Unit, Programme: 4001 Administration, Activity 004 Staff Welfare, the by deletion of K33,565,021. 

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly. 

Vote 15/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote15/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/24 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – North-Western Province– Passport and Citizenship – K206,214,696).

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 004 – Staff Welfare – Nil. I apologise if the explanation was previously rendered. However, why is it that we had K27,784,964 last year, but we do not have anything this year?

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member is right to apologise if he was not here. This matter was exhaustively dealt with. This provision will be taken care of centrally at the Ministry of Finance through the revolving fund.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K101,860,573. I see that next year’s proposal is almost double that for this year. May I know the reason for that increase.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the increase of K51,921,120 is due to the rise in the operational costs and goods and services.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson. 

Vote 15/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 Vote 15/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

VOTE 15/26 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Lusaka Province – Immigration Department – K1,068,726,353).

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4003. Among those activities, there is no short-term training. Can the hon. Minister confirm that there will be no short-term training for the Immigration Department in Lusaka Province. 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I can confirm that this year, we are only going to consider long-term training activities which are from six months and above.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/27 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Copperbelt Province – Immigration Department – K1,125,615,884).

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4023, Activity 027 – Border Management – K70 million. This year, there is K226,776,673 and, next year, the amount has dropped to K70 million. May I know why there is that huge drop in the allocation,

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the decrease is due to the fact that the other operations have been moved to another Vote. 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4003, Activity 011 – Long- Term Training (six months and above) – K15,000,000. The amount was even lower last year. Is it just one person being trained? Are there no people to be trained?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, there are a lot of people who would want to go for training but, due to financial constraints, that is what has been allocated for next year.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/28 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Central Province – Immigration Department – K699,864,883).

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4023, Activity 027 – Border Management. There is a provision of K210,291,909 this year and nothing has been allocated for next year. May I know why.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Chilangwa): Mr Chairperson, funds under this activity have been reallocated to Activity 003, under Programme 4001 and Activity 029 under Programme 4023. 

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.
 
 Vote 15/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

VOTE 15/31 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Eastern Province – Immigration Department – K823,268,463).

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4031, Activity 005 – Conducting of Sting Operations and Chase-ups. This year, we had K115,070,873 and, for next year, we have reduced it to K60,268,463. The Eastern Province borders with Mozambique and Malawi and, in the past two weeks, we have seen a lot of Malawians being deported. The need for sting operations is higher now. Why has the allocation been reduced?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the amount for this activity has reduced in order to facilitate the introduction of Programme 4091, Activity 001 – Office Administration-Internal Controls aimed at funding operations and border management activities at the district level.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 009 – Utilities – Nil. I see that there is no proposed amount for next year. May I know how the Immigration Department in the Eastern Province will be able to pay for utilities?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, the provision for utilities has been merged with that for office administration. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Chairperson, I want to make a follow up on the earlier question. The response that has been given is that a new programme has been introduced. They want to decentralise the chase-ups by districts. Why is it that in other provinces such as Northern, this is not the case? You have not reduced on this activity but, instead, you have scaled up. You have put more money on Conducting of Sting Operations and Chase-Ups. Does it mean that you are not decentralising to the district level there?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I think the hon. Member must understand that activities vary from one district to the other. I had indicated earlier that the activity in question will be taken care of by Activity 001which is aimed at funding operations and border management.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/32 – (Ministry of Home Affairs –Luapula Province- Immigration Department –K749,282,028).

Mr Mulusa: Mr Chairperson, I am beginning to get worried when similar figures are repeated from province to province. May I have clarification on Programme 4023, Activity 008 – Investigation and Prosecutions – K5,000,000 and Activity 009 – Intelligence Gathering – K10,000,000. The allocation to these activities does not really sound right. My concern is that these figures seem to have been repeated from province to province. I cannot understand how we can have similar demands everywhere. Was this not just an academic copy-and-paste exercise?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, it is not an academic copy-and-paste exercise. The activity in question is a new one and is on a trial run for the coming year.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/36 – (Ministry of Home Affairs - Copperbelt Province – National Registration – K1,826,824,542).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under Unit 01 Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme: 4000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,317,214,047 and the substitution therefor of K1,317,214,046.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 15/36, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/37 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Central Province- National Registration – K1,139,033,888).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that the following amendment:

Under Unit 01 Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme: 4000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K768,938,324 and the substitution therefor of K768,938,323.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 15/37, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/38 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/39 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Western Province – National Registration – K1,135,616,786).

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Chairperson, may I get the reasoning behind not budgeting for …

Interruptions 

 Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, may I be protected?

The Chairperson: Order!

Can we have order.

Mr Livune: Sir, people who have nothing to do make a lot of noise.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order! 

I do not derive pleasure from talking. Once a ruling has been made, you should proceed with your contribution. Can you, please, ask your question.

Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your fatherly advice. In some cases, I have seen a budget line for station imprest. I was wondering why this is so. May I get clarification from the …

The Chairperson: What particular …

Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, there is no allocation for station imprest in the allocation for the Western Province. Why is there no allocation for station imprest for the Western Province when it is there in the budgets for other provinces? 

The Chairperson: I think, we are drawing ourselves backwards. There is nothing like that. Ask another question.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4013, Activity 047 – District Office Administration –  K33,897,920. I have noticed that the same amount was also allocated for the same activity this year. Why is this so?

Sir, may I also have clarification on Programme 4032, Activity 001 – Continuous Registration – K167,752,303. I would like to find out whether this activity has been carried out this year and why the same amount has been allocated for the activity next year?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, the allocation of  K33,897,920 is required to carry out operations such as investigations, prosecutions and arrests. The same amount has been maintained because we managed to do all our work within the same budget line this year.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: With regard to the second question.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, with regard  to the other question, the amount has remained the same because of the fact that most of the materials will be procured in the 2013 for the same purpose.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/39 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/40 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Eastern Province – National Registration – K1,305,162,449).

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, may I clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 009 – Utilities – K24,000,000. I would like to find out whether this budget line includes both arrears and the amounts that will be accrued for next year. I seek clarification because I noted in other budget lines, that the arrears are separated. I want to know whether, in this case, it is a combination of both. 

The Chairperson: In all fairness, I disallowed that kind of questioning a few minutes ago. Can you rephrase your question if you want an answer.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 009 – Utilities – K24,000,000. I want to find out why there is only a minimal increase in next year’s Budget when consumption is always going up.  

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, the allocation for the activity has been adjusted upwards. We will meet our obligations therein.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4000, Activity 002 – Salaries Division II – K339,727,548, Activity 003 – Salaries Division III –K375,025,661 and Activity 004 – Wages – K194,289,831. Usually the increase is as a result of notch increments or the increased number of staff. This increase looks like it is uniform. By what percentage is it? 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, indeed, there has been a uniform increment in the allocations for Programme 4000, Activity 002 – Salaries Division II – K339,727,548, Activity 003 – Salaries Division III –K375,025,661 and Activity 004 – Wages – K194,289,831. The increase is uniform even though the structure has remained the same. That is the justification. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, does the increase in the allocation for emoluments in the budget for next year mean that there shall be no salary negotiations? Will this percentage increase further in the event that salary negotiations are conducted next year? 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, we are not part of the unions that negotiate for improved conditions of service. So, it would be very difficult for me to answer that question adequately. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 15/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 15/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/46 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Societies – K2,059,960,000).

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4052, Activity 006 – Procurement of Office Equipment and Furniture – K26,100,000. This year, K10,000,000 was budgeted for and released. However, we have faced a number of problems in printing and distributing the certificates for women’s clubs. Some have even got lost.  I want to find out from the hon. Minister whether the K26 million that has been budgeted for next year will sort out those problems. Will the women not have difficulty getting their certificates next year? 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, we would have loved to allocate more money for that activity. However, due to financial constraints, we were unable to do so. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 15/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/48 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Katombora – K1,976,815,188).

 Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 004 – Staff Welfare – Nil. I note that there is no provision for salaries for the officers at Katombora. Are their salaries budgeted for somewhere else or they are volunteers? 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, that allocation has been budgeted for under the headquarters. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 15/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/49 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Muchinga Province – Prisons and Reformatories – K479,544,831).

Mr Mulusa: Mr Chairperson, salaries have not been reflected in the budget for Muchinga Province. I am getting concerned with the way the allocations have been made because we have en battling with the issue of ghost workers in this country. Now we are having workers’ salaries being accounted for in allocations where they are not supposed to be. Is it not appropriate that, like everywhere else, we continue the practice of reflecting the salaries where they are supposed to be and noting the changes? 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member may wish to know that this is a new province and there are still certain adjustments which are being made by departments. This is the reason the allocation for salaries is not appearing where it is supposed to be. 

The Chairperson: Which allocation, therefore, will the salaries be reflected under?

Mr Kampyongo: The headquarters, Sir. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, the explanation that the salaries for officers that are not reflected in the Budget is provided for under the headquarters is not correct in the sense that, while certain departments have been provided for with salaries, the increment which we have seen is almost 50 per cent, which is the same as the provision for the headquarters …

The Chairperson: Order!

 You are debating, Mr Namulambe. What is your question?

Mr Namulambe: The question is: Is the hon. Minister sure that the provision for all these officers is under the headquarters? Will the Executive not come and move an amendment because the money under the headquarters is not enough?

Hon. Government Members: No.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, we have explained that, for the new province, other departments are still making adjustments. However, if our workers are still getting paid now, there should not be any worry that we are going to have a problem. As I have already mentioned, if the hon. Member looks at Vote15/02, he will see that all these matters have been taken care of.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, this is an activity-based budget (ABB). Therefore, the people who will be reporting to Prisons and reformatories in Muchinga Province will have the activities in that province. How does the hon. Minister convince me that this is an ABB if they are going to be drawing salaries from the headquarters? Will they be reporting to the headquarters on a daily basis as an activity?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I have just explained that the workers are still getting paid and will continue to do so. So, I do not see how that concern can arise. The question does not arise.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Chairperson, it is not my intention to delay the proceedings, but the answer given by the hon. Minister to my earlier question on the salaries not being reflected because it is a new province, cannot hold water because Mukobeko and Katombora also do not have allocations. Could we get a proper explanation so that the issue of ghost-workers does not re-visit us?

The Chairperson: The problem is that, once we have gone past a particular Vote, we cannot go back to it again.

Vote 15/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/50 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/52 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Muchinga Province – National Registration – K885,579,694).

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 289, Programme 4000, Activities 002 – Salaries Division II – K252,431,636; 003 – Salaries Division III – 411,587,387; and 004 – Wages – K111,640,000. This is a new province, according to the answer given. So, why are the salaries provided for here?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, this is a different department.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I am not satisfied with the answer the hon. Deputy Minister gave because all the departments in Muchinga Province are new. The way the hon. Minister of Justice answered us is the same way that the people from the Ministry of Home Affairs should give us satisfactory answers. 

Why are things like this?

Hon. Government Member: It is a new department.

Mr Namulambe: Yes, it is a new department and all these are new departments.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, this is the reason we go head by head and department by department. We are dealing with a different department, which is National Registration, Passport and Citizenship, and the answer is: This department has been provided for.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I wish to preface my question with the reminder to the hon. Minister that process protects contempt. What is the criterion that you used to determine which departments to allocate salaries to and which ones not to? 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, it must be noted that Muchinga is not going to have a provincial headquarters. So, we are going to have a regional office that will have a different establishment to befit a provincial headquarters.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 15/52, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 14 – (Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development – K615,697,013,465).

The Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Mukanga): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to discuss the 2013 Budget Estimates for the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development.

Sir, firstly, allow me to join other voices that have congratulated the hon. Member of Parliament for Mufumbwe on his resounding victory.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: We really thank the people of Zambia for showing confidence in the PF Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, the ministry superintends over three important sectors, namely mining, energy and water. These sectors are crucial to the development of our nation, as they constitute the nerve centre of the Zambian economy. This will continue to be so in the near future. So, one cannot talk about development without the mining sector, while energy and water are the lifeline of our economy.

As a ministry, generally, our vision is to see increased exploration and exploitation of the potential of these three sectors of our economy so that they contribute fully to the national development agenda. We will, therefore, continue to pursue policy measures which seek to ensure that the sectors’ contribution to national development is enhanced.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, in order to achieve this objective, my ministry has identified priority programmes and activities as well as practical measures to put in place on an annual basis. We have also ensured that the allocation of resources in this year’s Budget reflects the priority placed on programmes with the greatest impact on poverty reduction through employment and wealth creation.

Sir, my ministry’s proposed budget for 2013 is K615.7 billion. Of this amount, K437.3 billion is the proposed capital expenditure, reflecting our intention to concentrate on infrastructure development, while personal emoluments amounts to K19 billion.

Mr Chairperson, I now wish to discuss the performance of my ministry in 2012, and the priority activities for 2013, sector by sector. 

Mining Sector

Mr Chairperson, the mining sector has been expanding over the years, as evidenced by the increase in mineral production and the number of mining projects in the country. By the end of 2012, copper production is expected to increase to 856,025 tonnes and reach the target of 1.1 million metric tonnes by 2015. Mulyashi Copper Project, a large-scale copper mine, commenced production in 2012, while the development of the Konkola North Project, Trident Mine and Nkana Synclinorium continued during the year under review. The Konkola Deep Mining Project is near completion.

Sir, in 2013, we will focus on enhancing compliance with regulations by both small and large-scale mining companies while improving measures to attract investment in the sector. We have concentrated on streamlining the licensing system and undertaking compliance audits of all mining rights holders since the last quarter of 2011. Results from the audit show that most mining rights holders were not compliant with conditions of their licences. This situation led to unproductive and speculative holding of mining rights and, in turn, frustrated entry of new and credible investors in exploration of minerals.

Mr Chairperson, in addition, most of the large-scale mining licenses issued in the last ten years have not resulted in the development of mines, as required by the law. My ministry will continue to focus on strengthening its regulatory capacity in 2013 in order to improve compliance and ensure that the country derives maximum benefits from mining activities. In the 2013 Budget, my ministry has allocated funds for the purchase of field vehicles to facilitate inspections, monitoring of exploration and mining activities, and enhancement of mine safety compliance. 

Sir, in order to build an effective team, the ministry intends to increase its staffing levels in 2013. It will also scale up the provision of technical services to small-scale miners to promote this important sub-sector. The allocation for geological mapping has been doubled in order to progressively increase the generation of additional geological information in line with the ministry’s strategy to continue attracting investments. Lack of geological information does not only hinder investment, but also makes it difficult for the Government to obtain a fair deal from concessions in the sector. The ministry also intends to work out a mechanism for auctioning gemstones in the country.

Mr Chairperson, in view of the issuance of oil and gas exploration licences to private companies, my ministry has set aside resources in the 2013 Budget for commencing the setting up of a national oil company. It is important to set up the company as soon as possible because it is the special-purpose vehicle that the Government will use to participate in this sector.

Sir, as the House might be aware, Zambia is part of the world-renowned Extractive Industries Transparent Initiative (EITI). I wish to report that Zambia was declared an EITI-compliant country on 19th September, 2012. This is an indication that we are making headway in ensuring transparency in the management of our mineral resources. We also desire to come up with mineral accounting and reconciliation systems in order to derive greater benefits for the nation.

Energy Sector

Mr Chairperson, my ministry will continue to focus on ensuring that the country has a reliable supply of petroleum products and save quality and adequate electricity. This will be achieved by providing energy options that will meet the socio-economic development needs of our country.

Petroleum

Mr Chairperson, in the period under review, the Government continued to improve petroleum infrastructure through construction and refurbishment of provincial fuel depots. This will increase storage capacities and contribute to enhancing the security of supply of petroleum products as well as ensuring the availability of fuel in the country. The first phase of the programme covers depot construction works in Lusaka, Mongu, Mpika and Solwezi. It is expected that the fuel depots in Lusaka will be commissioned before the end of 2012. 

Furthermore, Sir, the Government intends to continue with the implementation of the Uniform Petroleum Pricing Programme to enable rural areas procure fuel at standardised prices. During the first quarter of 2013, the bitumen plant at Indeni Refinery, which has been out of operation for many years, will be commissioned after refurbishment. This will help the country to access bitumen for local road construction. Further, the loading facilities at the Ndola Fuel Terminal are also being modernised. This will facilitate easy and safe loading and distribution of fuel to all parts of the country by ensuring that fuel tankers are loaded in the safest way and shortest time possible.

Sir, the Government will continue to take measures to ensure security of supply of petroleum products to the nation is maintained at all times in 2013. The ministry recently concluded contracts for the supply of 1,440,000 metric tonnes of commingled petroleum feedstock, supply and delivery of 216,920,000 litres of diesel and supply of 21,230,000,000 litres of unleaded petrol.

Electricity

Sir, in 2012, the performance of the electricity sub-sector continued to be satisfactory, with registered progress in the implementation of hydropower projects. My ministry will continue to implement measures that will ensure security of supply of electricity. This sub-sector has been outstretched by the demand for power as a result of increased economic activities, especially mining operations, and acceleration in electrification. In order to address this situation, we have continued to accelerate the completion of various power-generation projects in the country as follows:

Kariba North Bank Extension Hydropower Project

The Kariba North Bank Extension Hydropower Project has an estimated cost of K1.5 trillion. Construction works are in progress while most civil works have been completed. The installation of hydro-mechanical equipment is in progress while the construction of a 330/132 by 33kv sub-station and a 330kv line has commenced. The project is expected to be completed by the end of 2014.

Kafue Gorge Lower Hydropower Project

The estimated cost of the Kafue Gorge Lower Hydropower Project is K10 trillion. The scope of the project involves the construction of a 750mw hydropower plant, waterways and a high-voltage switch gear. This project is expected to be completed by 2018.

Itezhi-Tezhi Hydropower Project

The estimated cost for this project is K1.5 billion, and its development is expected to add 120mw to the system. The infrastructure is already completed while surface excavation around the power house area is in progress. The project is expected to be completed by 2015.

Lunzua Hydropower Station Extension Project

The estimated cost of this project is K260 billion. The project will increase the installed capacity of the power station from 0.7 MW to 15 MW. The benefit of this project is that it will improve the voltage profile and quality of supply to the northern parts of the country. This will, in turn, boost tourism and other economic activities in that region. It is expected to be completed in September, 2014.

Heavy Fuel Oil Plants

In order to reduce the high dependence on hydropower electricity, which currently stands at 99 per cent, the Government is promoting alternative energy sources such as heavy fuel oil to generate electricity. The construction of the heavy fuel oil power plant in Ndola is expected to be on-stream early 2013. The main challenges faced in the implementation of projects in the electricity sub-sector include the following:

(a)high initial capital investment costs for the projects;

(b)inadequate financial resources; and

(c)a below cost tariff structure.

The Government, through the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), will continue to review the electricity tariff structure in order to attain cost reflective tariffs for electricity. This will also assist in attracting more investment in the sub-sector. The Government will continue to promote private sector investment in the electricity sub-sector.

Mr Chairperson, for 2013, key milestones will include the following, among others:

(a)commissioning of a 50 MW heavy fuel oil power plant in Ndola;

(b)commissioning of the first 180 MW generator at the Kariba North Bank extension project; and

(c)implementation of additional energy power projects, comprising 30 MW of solar and 120 MW of heavy fuel oil generation power plants.

Mr Chairperson, our approach is to have both off-grid and on-grid small segregated installations for communities if possible. We intend to increase our demand side management sensitisation programmes. These efforts will ensure that electricity consumers currently experiencing load-shedding have some relief.

In the area of rural electrification, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) has carried out ten electrification projects in 2012. These projects were all carried over from 2011. The procurement process for the twenty-two projects programmed for 2012 is ongoing and the project activities will commence soon.

Water Sector

Mr Chairperson, our strategic objective in the water sector is to increase access to water for various uses, including domestic water supply, irrigation, animal watering, hydropower generation, tourism and recreation, industry, mining and maintenance of the environment. This objective has recently become even more urgent. In view of the challenges posed by variations in weather patterns as a result of global warming, we have no other option, but to establish our own adoption measures to mitigate the effects of climate change. 

During 2012, my ministry concentrated on construction works on dam projects carried over from the 2011 Fiscal Year at Milindu in Kawambwa District, Konkola in Mazabuka District, Sikasiwa in Monze District and Nakonde in Nakonde District. It is gratifying to report that, with the funds this House approved, significant gains have been made in this regard. Construction of Milindu Dam is completed and we are now working with all stakeholders at the community level to ensure that this dam is fully utilised for various economic activities in order to improve the living conditions of the people in the catchment area. Construction works at Konkola and Sikasiwa dams are both 90 per cent complete and are planned to be completed by the end of this year, while works at the Nakonde Dam site are 75 per cent complete. 

As we complete construction of the dam works carried over from 2011, the ministry intends to continue undertaking feasibility studies and complete dam designs for the five new dams programmed for 2012 countrywide. In this regard, construction works will commence before the end of the year at the following sites:

(a)Jikulamenda in Kafue District – Lusaka Province;

(b)Kankuko in Lufwanyama District – Copperbelt Province;

(c)Funzwe in Chongwe District – Lusaka Province;

(d)Mujimanjovu in Solwezi District – North-Western Province; and

(e)Isoka in Isoka District – Muchinga Province.

Mr Chairperson, in order to have sound water resource infrastructure, regular maintenance was a priority activity in 2012. We planned to rehabilitate and carry out maintenance works on sixty-seven dams across the country. Works have commenced on the thirty-eight dams which have received funds so far and are expected to be completed before the onset of the rains.

My ministry is implementing programmes on ground water development in order to facilitate the increase of water access for all as well as for the control of cholera and trachoma in respective communities. We have planned to construct seventy boreholes at schools and health centres in rural and peri-urban areas around the country this year. We are making arrangements to commence construction works at all planned centres before the end of the year. My ministry has constructed fifty boreholes in drought/cholera prone areas across the country this year. We have also constructed seventy boreholes in Gwembe, Choma, Zambezi and Chavuma districts under the Programme on the Control of Trachoma.

The ministry has undertaken practical steps and administrative arrangements for the implementation of the Water Resource Management Act of 2011. This will, among other things, enable us to manage our water resources in an integrated manner. It will also provide us with a legal framework for engagement with other partners on trans-boundary waters. The Act is now effective, having entered into force on 1st October, 2012. My ministry has drawn up an implementation plan to guide us on the operationalisation of the Act, including the institutional mechanisms and transfer of functions of the Water Board and Department of Water Affairs to the new institution to be established under the Act.

Mr Chairperson, in 2013, my ministry will continue to implement the following programmes:

(a)water resource infrastructure development;

(b)water resource management; and

(c)institutional capacity building.

In order to accelerate implementation of the infrastructure development activities to increase access to water resources for various uses as well as to assist in the sustainable management of water resources, we have allocated K43.35 billion in the 2013 Budget for water resource infrastructure development. We will concentrate on the establishment of the Water Resource Management Authority, catchment councils, sub-catchment councils and water users associations as well as transition tasks of transferring the functions of the Water Board and Department of Water Affairs to the authority, in line with the new Water Resources Management Act. 

Mr Chairperson, in the process, we will also seek to build appropriate capacities in these institutions and procure relevant modern equipment for hydrological and hydrogeological functions. In all its functions, the ministry will continue to count on the goodwill of all its co-operating partners in the water sector to assist support the acceleration of the implementation of these programmes. Therefore, we call upon all hon. Members to support this Vote for us to fulfill the vision of the ministry and ensure that the people of this Republic have full benefits. 

With these few words, I say thank you very much, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Chairperson, I am disappointed with the policy statement that has been delivered by the hon. Minister. I think what he said is not what is going to happen. Out of the total budget for the ministry, K400 billion has been allocated to water infrastructure. One of the key water infrastructure, is the construction of dams. 

This budget is about inclusiveness. Over 60 per cent of our people depend on agriculture for their livelihood. We have not harvested enough water so that people continue working throughout the year. Consequently, poverty continues to ravage our rural areas. Our people only work for three months during the rainy season. The rest of the months people have nothing to do because agriculture is an interface between land and water. This country has performed poorly in this aspect and this is the cause of poverty and high malnutrition levels in our country. If you want this budget to be inclusive, something must be done about it.

In the Yellow Book, K55 billion has been allocated for construction of only five dams. That is a joke. One farmer can actually construct five dams. I have seen this. This weekend, I visited one farmer in Monze who has five big dams on his farm, and the whole Government can come here and say that it is going to construct five dams. That is a joke. The political leadership must take the lead. The civil servants have never been to the people, but the people sent you here to address their issues. We have all seen what is happening in the hinterland. You cannot just come here and start reading what you …

The Chairperson: Order!

Can you address the Chair?

Mr Hamududu: Yes, Mr Chairperson. We are failing our people. We expect this ministry to come up with an infrastructure development plan for dams that will show the names and location of dams, the amount that has to be provided in all the constituencies for hon. Members. In fact, there must be, at least, three dams constructed per constituency every fiscal year. Once this is done, you will be a serious Government. In order to grow agriculture, livestock and fisheries, water is needed. Let us harvest the water that flows every year into our rivers and spills into the oceans. We do not need to open the gates at Itezhi-tezhi and Kariba dams. The water should remain inland. If this Government is going to continue doing things at this rate, people will write history as if you were not there; you just occupied space and did nothing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: This is your second year and there is no mark you have made. In my constituency, the two biggest dams were built during the colonial era. So, what is this Independence all about? The Nvuchese Dam, which is the biggest, was built in 1946 and …

Professor Luo: Ask the MMD.

Mr Hamududu: Yes, you were there also as Minister for ten years.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, beyond the MMD, this is your second year and you are remaining with three-and-half years. What have you done? Last year, it was your Budget and not for the MMD. To say it was for the MMD is a lie.

The Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member should say it was their Budget. What have they done and so on and so forth? Then, go on addressing the Chair.

You can continue.

Mr Hamududu: This is your second Budget. 

The Chairperson: Order!

No, this is their second Budget. You should address the Chair.

You can continue.

Mr Hamududu: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.  To cut the long story short, what has been said here is not impressive. Our people are listening. This year already, we have a semi drought. This country, by and large, has enough rain to accumulate and it is is blessed because there are streams everywhere. 

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Mr Hamududu: I do not know about your constituency. Every ward has a stream. Let us harvest water and construct dams everywhere. The Colonial Government did better than the governments after Independence. In five years, if you are going to roll out three dams per constituency for the next four years, you can register far greater progress. 

Sir, there are many programmes under the Water Affairs Department. The Programme on events has been allocated K1.5 billion. Under events, there is the International Women’s Day, Labour Day, Other Functions and Ceremonies, Public Service Day, World Water Day, World Water Week, Africa Water Week and Youth Day. There is also the Independence Day and Secretaries Day appearing under different programmes. What are they for? Can we collapse those lines and take the money where our mouths are?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: This money must go to service delivery. Pay the civil servants well. We do not need events. This country is too poor. Our people are suffering. Maybe, you do not visit the people. Can you collapse most of these useless lines and take them to service delivery? This template must be broken. 

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

I think the problem here is that I have tried, though I do not want to admit failure, to advise Hon. Hamududu to address the Chair. After one second, he digresses. Now, they are answering back because you are addressing them directly. So, it is difficult for me to stop them because you are addressing them directly.

You can continue, hon. Member.

Mr Hamududu: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I will address the Chair. Otherwise, I did not have any disturbance at all. 

I think the point has been made. Let us make progress. If there was a way of amending this Budget, we would have collapsed most of these Votes and taken them where they matter. We have activities that are not important such as Monitoring and Evaluation and Independence Day, Labour Day, Secretaries Day, Men’s Day, Women’s Day appearing under events. What are they for? Can you, please, collapse these Votes? Money has been allocated to all the ministries for events. I would like to inform the House that in my village, we put together money to celebrate Independence Day. You do not need to budget for that. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Even Circumcision Day.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Finally, Mr Chairperson, most of these dams, which were built a long time ago, have silted and need to be de-silted. They are drying up because of lack of maintenance. This includes even the old dams that were inherited from the Colonial Government. In my constituency, only one dam was built after Independence. It is a shame. I need about fourteen dams in my constituency for the people to begin to work. Our people are ready to work as long as they are provided with the necessary tools to use. Land is there, but there is no water. Our people are hardworking, but you are consigning them to poverty because you are not putting the right facilities in place. Can you put the money where it matters? This Yellow Book must address key issues. That is why I keep quiet. I cannot question about those things. That money must be taken to service delivery.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, let me move to the next point.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Allow him.

The Chairperson: Order, order!

You prejudice the case. He is asking me for a point of order and then you are saying, “Allow him, allow him!” I will not allow him now.

The hon. Member for Bweengwa can continue.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about mining. This ministry houses key sectors, namely mining, energy and water which are the key sectors. These are the key drivers of our economy. The ministry is loaded, but there are many ministries controlling water. In the Ministries of Local Government and Housing and Agriculture and Livestock, there is the water aspect. I think we need to realign this. There is a very strong linkage between water as regards dams to agriculture. I wonder where this must be placed. I think issues dealing with dams are more appropriate in agriculture because there is a direct interface with livestock, fisheries and crops. You cannot put up many dip tanks if there is no water. You cannot also use boreholes to fill dip tanks with water. So, you should find a way of harmonising this. Perhaps, a bigger chunk of this funding must go to agriculture where there is a very strong relationship. Otherwise, our colleagues might not understand. The Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock is under pressure. So, I hope the ministries will be realigned.

Finally, I want to end with a very important issue of mining. The price of metals is high. The 21st Century is actually an opportunity for Africa and, maybe, we need a Joseph to interpret the dream. This is Africa’s century, and the way has been opened for us, and yet we are watching the opportunity passing by. Very soon, some people will write about Zambia and what should have been, and this window of opportunity might close.

When commodity prices went up, it was our time. The West is now consuming. They want cars and technology. Their minerals have dried up. Asia, which is manufacturing them is actually getting the raw materials from Africa. In this equation of Africa, Asia and Europe, which one is the consumer? Africa is being beaten to the game again. During the days of slavery and colonialism, we were the losers. This time around, we are, again, losing to Asia because there is no value addition to our raw materials. If you are saying that we cannot introduce a robust tax system, can we, at least, add value? Can we create some laws stating that no mineral will be exported unless it is value added up to a particular level so that the value chain can be lengthened and more benefits can accrue to the country? If we are saying that our taxation is at its worst – I do not want to be one track minded – can we then add value? These people are exporting dust and you are saying that it is investment in the mines? Extraction is investment?  

  You are investing in the railways just to expedite the extraction and offloading of our wealth out of the country. That way of doing things will leave us poor forever. It is unfair. For you people in leadership, this is a very serious indictment.

  Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

  Mr Hamududu: Do not say hear, hear! This is a very serious matter. It is not for the United Party for National Development (UPND), PF or the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). It is a national issue. Our people were blessed by God. Are they cursed with the kind of leadership which does not understand the blessings which we have? From the time metal prices went up, we could have accumulated US$5 billion in a sovereign fund by now.  Botswana has US$6 billion in its Pula Fund. Yes, we have failed. We, instead, decided to put pressure on the hon. Minister of Finance to go and sell that bond for US$ 750 million. I think that we had other options. Can we find a way?  It is either taxation or value addition. 

    Mr Chairperson, we have been told by Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) that 50 per cent of the hydropower produced by the company is consumed by the mines which are paying below the cost reflective tariffs. Again, we, the Zambian people, are subsidising the mines and are suffering blackouts. Our industry has been affected. 

  Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

  Mr Hamududu: If the mines were paying cost reflective tariffs, ZESCO could generate enough money to reinvest in its operations. Unfortunately, the hon. Minister of Finance has to look for money to subsidise the operations of ZESCO, and yet, on the tax side, the mines are not paying enough money. 

  Mr Chairperson, I want to tell you that the mining companies are very clever merchants who have employed engineers from South Africa and Australia to come and carry out these projects. These are very ruthless people. It is the survival of the fittest in the economic jungle. Are you telling me that we are weak people? We will be completely finished and people will keep stepping on us. Perhaps, we need another indaba on the issue of mining. Can we talk? What is happening is not the right thing. This is our time. Zambia is the leading copper producing country in Africa. Are we Africa’s number one copper producer with all this poverty? Have you been to Kalikiliki, Nyimba Island and Mpulungu and seen those children who will never go to school? Along the lakes, in Mongu, some people do not even know school. Are you are telling us that we will continue like that? I want to tell you that, perhaps, the problem is due to the failure of leadership.

  Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

  Mr Hamududu: Africa has failed and people are wondering what its independence was all about. I want to tell you that except for racism, the colonial administration was better. All the countries which got their independence late are far better off. Look at South Africa, Namibia and Zimbabwe. Even with the sanctions, they had invested so much in infrastructure. The infrastructure failed to break under twenty years of sanctions. What has this country got to show for its independence since 1964 from the time of United National Independence Party (UNIP), MMD and now Patriotic Front (PF)?  PF is MMD too because most of the people came from the MMD. They are just the same people.

  Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

  Mr Hamududu: In conclusion, my appeal, colleagues, is that can we stand together and find a common solution above cheap politics. Can we sit around the table and find solutions for our people. The political leadership in this country is under trial.

  With these few words, I thank you.

  Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

  Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to make some remarks on the Vote for this ministry. As the pervious speaker said, this is a very important ministry ...

  Interruptions

  The Chairperson: Order!

  Dr Musokotwane: … because it is a key driver of the economy of our country. Mr Chairperson, today, our colleagues in the PF are in charge of our country. Each party that finds itself in Government normally raises expectations regarding key vexing issues that they will resolve during their time. UNIP came on the scene because of the people’s dissatisfaction with colonialism. The MMD came on the scene because the economy was floundering. The PF now are in the seat because there was a lot of dissatisfaction among the youth regarding the non- availability of jobs. Therefore, the key issue facing this Government is that of creating jobs for the youth.

  That being the case, as I make my remarks, I am going to focus a lot on the issues of job creation. Has this important ministry that we are discussing today laid out a clear development path on how jobs are going to be created in this country? Does it have financial outlays regarding how jobs are going to be created? My key point of debate is – I see my friend the hon. Minister of Justice is looking at me – are we creating jobs, hon. Minister? 

  Mr Chairperson, let us just remind ourselves about the targets which were set in this year’s Budget. Among the targets that were set were that there were going to be 200,000 decent jobs created by this Government this year. The target for the next five years is 1 million. For this year, we are looking at 200,000 jobs.  From the energy sector, the hon. Minister mentioned that we are expecting 90,000 jobs. I am not dreaming up these figures. This is what was contained in the Budget Speech. 

  Mr Chairperson, to start with, let me focus on the issue of mining. What are we doing to create jobs in the mining sector? The mining sector has developed a lot in the last ten to twelve years. Mining in our country was almost collapsing but, today, the hon. Minister is talking about reaching almost a million metric tonnes of copper in the next one-and-half years. Thanks, of course, to the MMD.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, in 2000, the amount of export revenue we were receiving from the mining sector was less than $1billion. Today, we are getting more than US$7 billion, again, thanks to the MMD.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, there were days when jobs were crumbling in the mining sector. This, I suspect, is why you see many engineers in the House. Their jobs were disappearing. They had to find solace in this House.

Hon. Member: There are four.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: We are debating ourselves?

Dr Musokotwane: Four? The important point is that, today, the mining sector cannot find enough engineers in Zambia. Jobs are being created. So, Mr Chairperson, what I am saying here is that the mining industry has grown a lot in the last decade. 

I am disappointed with certain statements being expressed by the hon. Minister responsible for the mining portfolio. When talking about the improvement that has been taking place in the mining sector, he is barely repeating what was being said under the MMD. When they were in the Opposition, the key question that they were raising, which is very important, which they seem to be forgetting today and conveniently skirting around is: How is the mining sector benefiting the ordinary Zambian? That was the question that was being asked. Therefore, I expected him not to keep on repeating the statistics that the MMD was churning out, but to, instead, focus …

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours and 1830 hours. 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was about to say that our colleagues need to go forward as far as mining is concerned because the numbers of output or growth is no longer news, and is not leading us anywhere. 

Mr Chairperson, when they were in the Opposition, my colleagues used to articulate some very interesting points that could help this country distribute the benefits from the mining sector. However, it is surprising that they have stopped uttering those serious points. As others have advised, my colleagues need to go beyond just making promises and start taking action. For instance, I remember very clearly, a colleague here, about two years ago, said that we needed to change the way we measure economic growth because gross domestic product (GDP) is deceptive. Hon. Mwenya Musenge, we cannot be talking about growth in copper production, and yet this copper is being produced by the Chinese, imperialists and Indians. That is what we needed to be talking about. Where is the role for the Zambians? I was hoping that the hon. Minister would make a statement about how he is supporting investment by the local people. I wanted to hear from him when the first Zambian mine would open. I wanted to hear from him when the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines-Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) would open mines so that this movement away from foreigners can be realised. However, he has been very silent on this issue as if it was no longer important for our economy.

Mr Chairperson, I also heard about the need to add value to our products here. This is something that has been said so many times. Surprisingly, nothing about job creation was said by the hon. Minister along the lines of serious job creation. About a year ago, we were told that Zambian copper would no longer be exported, without value being added to it here. I think it was the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry who made that statement. Today, there is silence. What has happened? Is that issue no longer important? They also told us that the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) would not allow any copper to be exported unless there was total assurance that the money would come back to Zambia. This was a statement made, I think, by the President himself. What has happened to that?

Mr Chairperson, this is very disappointing. However, what has disappointed me most is the fact that this Government has done nothing, after one year, in office about the Munali Nickel Mine. In 2008, some mines closed in Zambia and others were threatened with closure. That was a period of economic crisis. No one wanted to touch a mine because no one was sure about the future of the world economy. Today, there is no serious economic crisis in the world. However, the people of Mazabuka continue to suffer.

Mr Nkombo: Yes, there are job losses.

 Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, I wonder whether this is happening because the people of Mazabuka voted for the UPND and now they are being punished for that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, what is so difficult about finding an alternative investor to reopen the mine? This is very disappointing. 

Mr Chairperson, the question I asked earlier is, do we have hope that out of these 200,000 new jobs that we are talking about in the Budget, the mining sector will contribute a significant number, although there is no target that was indicated? After having listened to the hon. Minister, I have great doubts because I have not heard any statement about the possibility of opening a new mine. I have not heard any credible statement about value addition to Zambian copper or any other mineral. I have not heard any statement about the possibility of reopening the Munali Nickel Mine very shortly. Therefore, if there is no new mine to be opened, there will be no value addition to products. What confidence can we have that there are new jobs that are going to come from the mining sector? The answer is zero as far as I can see.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, perhaps, we can take solace in the fact that the hon. Minister is also responsible for energy. The Budget states that we expect 90,000 jobs from the energy sector this year. The question is, where are these jobs going to come from? When I looked at the Budget, I asked myself where the projects were where these 90,000 jobs are going to come from? I saw Kafue Gorge, Itezhi-tezhi , Kariba North and a few other projects. These projects are already running. I know that, at the time, the Kafue Gorge Project was opened, 800 people were employed. We were told that a maximum of 2,000 jobs would be created, and this is the biggest project. If the biggest project is not going to employ not even 2,000 people, hon. Minister, how can you convince us that your sector is going to produce 90,000 jobs this year? I do not believe it. Therefore, as far as I can see, this target of the number of jobs that would be made, which is a very important target from the point of making sure that the economy benefits the majority, was just an afterthought put in the Budget Speech because somebody was scared of what he would say supposing someone asked about jobs. I think that this is how this number came about because, if you went through the submissions, you will not get any confidence that 200,000 jobs will be created this year. The hope for the youth does not exist. 

Mr Chairperson, on my last point, I will read a statement, and it goes as follows, “While I appreciate that we have a lot of problems in the energy sector, I wonder why we have to increase ZESCO tariffs. Where are the Zambians going to find money to pay the high tariffs?” 

Mr Chairperson, the statement I have just read was made on 4th February, 2009, and I will tell you who issued it. I will read another one which says:

“We support ZESCO through taxpayers. Last year, you allocated them K98 billion. This year, you have allocated ZESCO another K16 billion for capacity building. This money comes from ordinary Zambians, through taxes. You, again, come to ordinary Zambians and say you want to increase tariffs. Emphatically, ‘No’, and shame on you.”   

Sir, this statement came from Hon. Kambwili while the one I read earlier was made by the hon. Minister, Mr Mukanga, in 2009.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, if it was wrong to increase tariffs then, why are we being told that we should increase tariffs today? Can the hon. Minister justify the change in position?

Interruptions 

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, the flip-flopping by the PF Government, whereby it says this today and something else tomorrow, is what is confusing Zambians. I, therefore, advise my colleagues to make up their minds.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, let me begin by expressing my deep appreciation for the opportunity you have given me to debate a subject that is very dear to me. Let me also thank the hon. Minister for performing his responsibility of giving his policy statement on a ministry that is very fundamental to the lives of the Zambian people.

Sir, I listened very carefully to the hon. Minister as he was delivering his speech and, immediately, what came to mind was a manifestation of what I read in a book by Fayiso Liyang Stevens entitled Africa’s Philosophy of Self Destruction.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister, in his statement, indicated that his ministry, indeed, had a big role to play in the socio-economic affairs of this country. However, I did not hear him link  this to how his statement was going to interface with ordinary Zambians. If you go to his statement, you will see that he discussed the citizens’ right in the very final sentence of his statement.

Sir, the hon. Minister has spoken about how the mining sector is performing in a satisfactory manner. However, I would like to advise him to do some soul searching and realise that the people who worked for Munali Nickel Project have been jobless against your mountain of promises of more jobs for the people of Zambia when you came into power. They have lived without jobs, and I thank Hon Dr Musokotwane for illuminating my mind with the fact that the Government is sitting idly, instead of doing something about the plight of the people who were once employed by the Munali Nickel Project. 
 
Mr Chairperson, the Government is not doing anything for the people who were displaced. These are the traditional owners of the land in Mugoto. It has now been left to me and the councillor of that area to commence legal action for the people of the land to be compensated. Nevertheless, the hon. Minister was clear in what he said about the manner in which the mining sector is working. He spoke about compliance and licensing. All those things, to me, do not have any bearing, whatsoever, on the social wellbeing of Zambians.

Sir, the hon. Minister was very quick to mention the importance of the extractive industry. Coming from the Copperbelt, the hon. Minister and most of his colleagues should be advocates of the need to make Zambians get optimum benefits from mining activities. He comes from Kantanshi while Hon. Kufuna is the Member of Parliament in Mufulira. However, if you go to Mufulira, you will find, without a doubt, that the people there have been witnessing their wealth benefitting other people for years, and yet the hon. Minister says that he is satisfied with the situation.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister is aware that Mopani, which is in Kantanshi, Mufulira has had a forensic study conducted by experts to see how it has been hiding profits. The hon. Minister knows that, and yet he says that he is satisfied. Where is his satisfaction emanating from?

Interruptions 

Mr Nkombo: It is true. Even the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance was lecturing us here on how easy it is to declare losses, reminding the mining houses that you should continue to declare losses. To whose benefit? 

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: These things were said on the Floor of this House when he was trying to justify why the windfall tax was not going to be a workable solution to the socio-economic woes of our people. This is recorded in the Hansard. Therefore, when the time comes to reckon on why Zambians are living in poverty, we shall remind our people that one hon. Deputy Minister of Finance reminded the mines on how they could actually evade tax.

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member on the Floor started debating very well but, because I walked into the House, he suddenly decided to derail. Is he in order to bring me into his debate and mislead this House and the nation that I was teaching the mines how to evade paying taxes, when what I said was that we were aware that the mines were evading tax through transfer pricing, and that we had put measures in place to curb that? Is he in order …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

You have debated your point of order.

May the hon. Member, please, continue.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I think that I have said enough on the mines. I now want to move on to the petroleum industry.

Mr Chairperson, on the petroleum sector, the hon. Minister was just here to tell us what we already know about how they gave Transfigura a contract and the storage tanks being constructed. What is the Government doing to make the price of fuel affordable to every Zambian? That is what I wanted to hear from the hon. Minister, and not to tell me that they are building storage tanks in every province. I already know that. I know that my dear brother and friend did not talk about Indeni to any appreciable extent. He knows that this country needs to invest in a hydrocracker at Indeni so that we are able to import crude oil, and not comingled products. 

Sir, as the situation stands, this country has continued in a ‘business as usual’ mode. We all know that we buy comingled oil from wherever. This is diesel mixed with petrol. We put it in the pipeline in Tanzania and transfer it to Indeni, which we have been calling a refinery, but is actually a separator. At Indeni, we separate the heavy fuel oils, diesel, and Jet A-1 Fuel. I think that it was of primary importance for him to have said what I am saying now. 

Mr Chairperson, if we, the UPND, were in Government, we would not have gone through this trouble of trying to invest in tanks. 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Nkombo: We would have imported a hydrocracker and installed it at Indeni. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: It is worth more than US$200,000, and I know what I am talking about. Even the hon. Minister is aware that if he imports a hydrocracker, he will be solving the problems of Zambia’s high fuel price forever. So, what is the big deal? He knows that he needs to buy a hydrocracker, an isomeriser. None of these things are new to the hon. Minister, but he did not mention them.

Sir, I also did not hear the hon. Minister give Zambians an assurance that the Government intends to reduce the burden of load shedding. Hon. Hamududu already indicated how the colonial hegemony of favouring big industry in terms of tariff has continued. Why should Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) which, we are told by the same Government, is hiding profits, benefit from preferential tariffs, and yet a simple barber from Garden Compound, who voted for the PF, experiences load shedding? He cannot earn a living because there is no electricity, and he cannot go home with a loaf of bread. 

Mr Chairperson, the PF did not draw any votes from KCM or Mopani Copper Mines (MCM), but a Mr Banda, a Mr Chileshe and a Mr Mtonga, somewhere in Garden Compound, who runs a barbershop, but fails to make ends meet because he has no electricity half of the time. The Government must search its soul. It should not fall into the trap of the colonial-style hegemony, whereby its members dine with investors and then change their positions like chameleons. One moment, the windfall tax is good, the next moment, it is bad.

Mr Chairperson, our colleagues in the PF have been singing the song of job creation, but there was a strike by casual employees at the ZESCO Limited yesterday. ZESCO is one of our biggest corporations churning out an installed capacity of about 1630mw, and about 15,000 casual employees because it cannot afford to employ them on a permanent basis. On top of this, some fellow in ZESCO brings out a schedule wanting to increase tariffs because they are permitted by Act 433 to go to the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), once year, and ask for an upward adjustment of tariffs, citing factors like inflation and the cost of producing electricity. Excuse me!

Sir, why is it that the Government cannot cut the salary of that gentleman, who gets K100 million per month, and save those casual workers who went on strike yesterday. Save the job of the fellow who clears the pylon lines or poles for ZESCO. Why is it that the Government will not save his job but, instead, save the job of a public relations officer at ZESCO, who just sits in an office and rants the PF song every day? 

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Mukanga should tell me how the Government will reverse the issue of job losses. I spoke about Albidon, now I am speaking about ZESCO, and these are living examples. Kick out the directors, trim them and reduce their salaries. It has happened before in the world. The PF must learn to start embracing progressive ideas. It must also learn that we are not adversaries, that we are in the Government together and that it is important to reduce on their arrogance of numbers in this House. In the midst of … 

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Just keep quiet. 

… things going wrong, the PF has confidence in the fact that it has numbers and can pass Motions. This will haunt its members if they do not do the right thing. They have clearly outlined a few things, but omitted others. 

Mr Chairperson, mini-hydropower stations, as an alternative means of getting more power generated is one sure way of doing things. It would give confidence to investors on a long-term basis so that they can go to Lumangwe, Kabwelume, Ntumbachusi and NKundalila to install turbines to produce electricity, thereby improving our generating capacity. There is no need to sing songs about Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station because that was never a brain-child of the PF. They should not sing about Itezhi-tezhi either because that project was started by Kenneth Kaunda way back in 1973. Give me some grand ideas that are going to give people hope. 

Mr Chairperson, I would like to congratulate the PF or whoever was responsible for terminating the contract of the individual who was running REA. That was a good thing.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: It was a wonderful thing to do, and I have my own reasons for saying that. The PF should not fall in the trap of singing and dancing to its own song.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Hon. Nkombo: You can question, if you like, but I know, for a fact, that … 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue. Do not worry about hecklers.

Hon. Nkombo: … empty tins make a lot of noise.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I would like to express my deep appreciation to you for allowing me to debate this particular … 

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Nkombo: No, it is not allowed. It is the second time he is rising to make a point of order on the same speaker. Hon. Sampa, please sit down.

I thank you, Sir.

Laugher

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, is the speaker … 

Hon. Opposition Members: Who?

Mr Sampa: Was the speaker in order … 

Hon. Opposition Members: Who?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Allow him to exhaust himself.

Laughter 

Mr Sampa: Sir, was the hon. Member debating, who is a seasoned Member of Parliament, in order to be misleading the green horns like Hon. Livune …

Laughter 

Mr Sampa: … by debating with his hands in his pockets? I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Had the point of order been raised while he was debating, I would have made a ruling on it.

Mr M. B. Mwale (Malambo): Mr Chairperson, in contributing to the Vote of the Ministry of Mines Energy and Water Development, may I begin by congratulating the ministry on Mulyashi Mine being on-stream, as the hon. Minister stated. You may wish to know that this is a project that was on the drawing board for over 30 years. I am congratulating the hon. Minister because he has scored, like Christopher Katongo, a ball that we passed on to him.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Chairperson, Mulyashi Mine is now contributing to the National Treasury, and we look forward to another … 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr M. B. Mwale: … ball that we passed on, Konoko, which should start contributing to the national Treasury, much to the delight of the hon. Minister of Finance.

Sir, may I remind our colleagues on your right that, when we were looking for an equity partner for ZCCM-IH to move into Luanshya when the mine was closed during the global financial crisis, there was much resistance from our colleagues on the right. They resisted the Chinese moving into Luanshya, but what we saw is that, immediately they assumed power, they started dining and wining with the Chinese. This made us wonder what had changed. However, we are now learning from our colleagues that the Chinese, in the current administration, are different from those who were in our administration. 

When I look at the Chinese, they are of the same stature, same colour and have the same companies, but I do not know what has changed. Probably, they are indirectly telling us that it is the reality of governance. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Sir, as regards the budgetary allocations, I observed general increments across departments, ranging from 50 per cent to 300 per cent with the MDD enjoying the most. This is a good thing. For a long time, as you may know, the ministry was in a position to recruit personnel and even to fill the vacant positions. This was due to budgetary restrictions as we were restricted to 80 per cent of the GDP. Now, under that administration, anything goes and you should take advantage of it. You should fill in the vacant positions while the World Bank is looking the other side. 

Sir, I notice that the ministry has adequately prepared for the recruitment of new staff. The provision for Orientation under Capacity Building has increased from K50 million to K250 million. That is a job well-done. Departmental budgets will be meaningless if there is no personnel to operationalise them. It would have been an exercise in futility. It will, therefore, be a good thing for the ministry to recruit new staff because we expect improvement in service delivery. 

Sir, may I also congratulate the ministry on mentioning that Zambia attained the EITI compliant status. I commend the hon. Minister, as this has been done in the shortest possible time considering that there are other countries that have been failing to attain this status. I know that this has been possible because of the teamwork in the ministry.

Sir, through EITI, we know that we will enhance transparency in the extractive industries. In other nations where there has been no transparency, there has been a lot of hostility from the host communities wherever these extractive industries are based. However, of concern, is the budgetary allocation to the EITI Secretariat, which has remained at K1.5 billion. One would have expected that there would be an annual increment so that we take ownership of this initiative because, for it to remain at K1.5 billion, it means that we will be dependent on the donors for a long time. 

Mr Chairperson, may I also note that the review of the Mines and Minerals Development Act of 2008 is ongoing. I hope the downsizing of the allocation to the activity from K70 million to K40 million is indicative that the exercise is being finalised. My advice to the ministry, however, is that stakeholder concerns should be taken on board when undertaking this exercise to avoid frequent reviews of the Mines and Minerals Act because it can be quite embarrassing. The Act should be relevant and conducive to the mining operations. That is why stakeholder submissions should be taken seriously in reviewing the Act. 

Sir, allow me now to turn to the individual departments. I will start with the Geological Survey Department (GSD). Like other departments or ministries, we have observed that staff welfare has been removed and we learn that it will now be centrally managed through the Ministry of Finance as a revolving fund. I find this quite defective because it means that our civil servants may be finding difficulties in accessing these soft loans in the first few months where they will pay minimal interest. We learn from the ministry itself that even the credit union is not yet in place. With that, there will be a need to recruit staff to manage this union. What about rolling out to the provinces? It means that in the period before rolling out this union to the provinces, our hardworking civil servants will be inconvenienced. They will have no access to the soft loans through which they can buy furniture, motor vehicles or even use for funerals expenses. My considered view would have been that the staff-welfare activity should have run parallel with the creation of the credit union to avoid inconveniencing our hardworking civil servants. 

Sir, on the responsibilities of geological mapping, as a country, we need to know the mineral occurrences across our country. I would like to suggest that the GSD goes beyond geological mapping. As you now know, the modern day investor has very little time for the upstream side of mineral exploration. They would like to take advantage of the times when the commodity prices are quite high, and they would like to spend less time on mineral exploration. Therefore, it would be prudent for the ministry to fund partners with whom we can carry out detailed geological surveys across the country so that we would develop or come up with the mineral packages that we could sell to whoever would like to develop our minerals sector. The GSD should intensify its visits to exploration areas, and not to restrict itself, as I have already said, to geological mapping.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue which I wish the hon. Minister talked about is petroleum exploration. As you know, Zambia has been a frontier country in terms of petroleum exploration. The last time that activity was undertaken in the country was in the 1980s and now, we are moving vigorously in this area. One would propose to the hon. Minister that this activity should be intensified so that we could take advantage of what is happening in our neighbouring countries. We know that in Malawi, they have already found petroleum. We also know that we are sharing the same geological structures as our neighbouring countries that are up north. 

Sir, let me now move to the Mines Safety Department (MSD). Safety in our mines is an emotive issue. Filling up vacant positions in the MSD will inspire hope as we, on a number of times, have raised concern that our mines are not a safe working place. It is gratifying to note that K800 million has been allocated to the purchase of new vehicles, thereby ensuring that our inspectors will be mobile.

Sir, in 2011, the North-Western Province accounted for 44 per cent of our copper production. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Chairperson, we are talking of Kansanshi and Lumwana mines only. With the coming on board of Kalumbila Mine, it means that the North-Western Province will account for over 50 per cent of our national copper production. It would be prudent if the MSD decentralised from Kitwe to set up some offices in Solwezi to cater for the increased operations in the North-Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to say that it is nice to modernise the operations of the MSD. I would like to bring to the hon. Minister’s attention the fact that if modernising the department is synonymous with computerising it, then there is a problem. As you know, if you put cabbages in a computer, you will get out cabbages. If you put oranges in a computer, you will get out oranges. 

Mr Livune: In the Yellow Book!

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr M. B. Mwale: Sir, as much as computers enhance efficiency, …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Allow the hon. Member to continue debating.  Garbage would be garbage too. Continue.

Laughter

Mr M. B. Mwale: Sir, I am not talking about garbage, but cabbages because I am a farmer of cabbage.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: There are lessons that we need to learn from the mining cadastral. We thought that by computerising it, most of the problems that were occurring there would be solved, but we realised that doing this did not actually cure all the ills at the mining cadastral. Therefore, we forgot one element which is the quality of human resource, which refers to the people that will be operating these machines. If modernising the Mining Development Department will only mean the purchase of computers without employing quality human resource, then we will still remain in the same area of inefficiency.

Sir, I want to give the hon. Minister food for thought. Let us be honest with ourselves, we have a number of small-scale mining licences that are crossing the North-Western and Central provinces, but what has been the socio-economic benefits for our country? Much as we could have made political decisions to empower our local people through small-scale mining, as food for thought, hon. Minister, these small-scale licences, as you referred to them in part, are occupying the space that large-scale operators could take up to undertake detailed exploration, thereby enabling us to know the full potential in terms of mineral occurrences that are in our country.

Hon. Opposition Member: Quality debate, these are engineers.

Mr M. B. Mwale: As much as I am a politician, you too are one. Should we continue with these policies? That is a thought-provoking question, hon. Minister.

Sir, In conclusion, may I also refer to the Department of Water Affairs. The people of Malambo are crying for dams and boreholes. As you may know, Malambo was heavily infested with tsetse-flies, and we had problems of keeping livestock. It is good to note that tsetse-flies have been controlled. 

Mr Chairperson, we have the Ministry of Tourism and Arts which is mandated to ensure that even if a Chief tries to hunt, he/she is locked up. However, if there are no alternative sources of protein, what should the people of the valley do? I want to urge the hon. Minister to help these people by constructing earth dams so that the livestock population can increase in the valley and they can have an alternative source of protein.

The hon. Minister referred to the fact that more dams will be sunk in areas which are drought prone, and Malambo is one of them. The people of Malambo, Kasempa and Kazungula asked me to find out what you have in store for them.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I am grateful for giving me this opportunity to debate the policy statement that was presented by the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development.

Mr Chairperson, as I debate, I would like to take the debates of the ably debaters that have spoken before me as mine. Let me remind the PF Government, because it seems they need to be reminded, that, although they actually know what they are mandated to do, they tend to overlook this. There is a saying that goes, ‘whosoever digs a pit, shall fall in it’. The PF Government has ably talked about certain things that they do not believe in up to now, and this is a contradiction of what they were before. They are now in the driving seat, and are unable to implement some things they had talked about when they were in the Opposition.

Mr Chairperson, let me remind the PF Government that, in mining, the opportunity that is being lost is real, and they must be aware of that. When it comes to commodities, statistics indicate to us that by 2020, there will be a deficit. The PF Government is aware of this. If they are not aware, then they need to realise that. Actually, the copper that they are mining at the moment or extracting will not be sufficient by 2020. What are they doing about it? The poverty levels in areas where this copper is being mined are high, and they are not doing anything about it. If they do not take the opportunity to raise the taxes or value addition then, as Hon. Hamududu indicated, they will have lost out. The commodity prices are going up and this Government is not taking advantage of this. At the moment, China, being the biggest buyer of copper, is just stock piling, knowing very well that by 2020, the prices will be high. As much as the PF Government knows this, it is not doing anything about it. It is, therefore, surprising that the hon. Minister said that the mining sector is doing well when the people of this land are not benefiting anything from it.

Mr Chairperson, Aristotle said that poverty is a parent of revolution and crime.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: We should, therefore, not be surprised when these people, who are actually the owners of these mines, rise up one day to get the benefit of what belongs to them. Those Lambas on the Copperbelt will rise up one day.

Mr Mbulakulima: Yes!

Mr Mufalali: You cannot be getting minerals to enrich certain individuals and corporate organisations out there while the locals are suffering. I have moved around in those villages, and I have seen the poverty levels. If they continue in that state of poverty, one day they will rise up. The statement by Aristotle is true.

His Excellency the President, Mr Sata, came here and complained that the crime levels are high. This is true, because amidst poverty, crime will be high. You have triggered poverty in this country and you are not even paying attention. Actually, if you are not careful, you being the architects of poverty, the people will not let you go. The earlier you realise that you are actually the architects of poverty in this country, the better so that you change your route to ensure that the people who own these resources also benefit. Otherwise, they will rise against you and, when they do, you will not be able to control them. 

Mr Chairperson, I want to talk about energy. I am disappointed that the hon. Minister did not explain much on what he will do with coal mining and clean technology. He has been quiet on this matter and I do not know why. Coal is a major component in the energy sector. The hon. Minister needed to say something about how he will develop the coal industry. I think, for him to keep quiet and only rely on what the MMD Government did in terms of hydropower is not right, because he needed to say something on how he was going to develop the energy sector with regard to coal.

Eighty per cent of the world, when it comes to energy, benefits from coal. If you are going to keep quiet and do away with things that might help us, I think that will not be of any good to us. We need to explore and research on the coal industry. We also need to find ways of developing Maamba Collieries, and see how much energy can be drawn from that sector. If the hon. Minister remains quiet on this issue, it will indicate that the ministry is not ready to develop the energy sector.

Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about water. I come from a territory where there is abundant water, although I know there are other people who come from areas that are dry. The hon. Minister needs to indicate to us how he is going to develop the water industry to ensure that most of the water that we have in the Western Province is harnessed. I do not know how much water is harvested every year in areas that have too much of it. Maybe, he can give us those statistics. What is he planning to do to ensure that we harvest enough water? We do not need dams in the Western Province because we have natural dams that can actually be worked upon to ensure that they do not dry up. 
    
I have in mind Makapaila Dam which, at one point, dried up. Fortunately, through nature’s course, it came back to life. This is a big dam which could have been developed to ensure that …

Mr Chikwanda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Mwashibukeni!

Laughter 

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, is Hon. Mufalali in order, given his capacity, not to realise that in Maamba there is already a project which will put on the market 300 megawatts. I cannot imagine that he is not aware of that in his capacity. 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: The ruling is that the hon. Member is in order. What he is complaining about in his debate is the inability of the hon. Minister to talk about a certain project. I, therefore, hope that in responding, the hon. Minister will pay attention to that project. 

The hon. Member may continue. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that Makapaila Dam dried up because of this ministry’s lack of good management of natural water bodies. 

Mr Chairperson, even as the hon. Minister is talking about hydropower generation and so on and so forth, we need enough water in the country. The rush for natural resources is very high. At one point, we complained about river boundaries because we wanted to know them. This is not a small issue. These are the natural resources that we will be competing for very soon and, if we are not careful and give up every time  there is an argument over a natural resource, we will have ourselves to blame because we need these water bodies very much. Therefore, when I talk about the natural bodies that we can harness, harvest and grow, everyone must be aware that what I am talking about is for our own benefit. 

The day that Angola decides to close some of its water bodies that flow into the Zambezi River, all these hydropower stations will cease to exist. They will be very dry. We need to ensure that we have enough water. 

Interruptions 

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, people are mumbling and wondering why I am mentioning …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Allow the hon. Member to continue debating in peace and quiet. Please consult less loudly. 

You may continue.

Mr Mufalali: I thank you for your protection, Sir. 

Mr Chairperson, people might mumble, but what I am talking about is true. Much of the water that is feeding the Kariba Dam comes from Angola. You go and research, and you will realise that much of the source of that water is not the Zambezi, but the plains on the Angolan side. Therefore, if anything went wrong on the other side, it would bring us down. This is why I am insisting that the hon. Minister should have said something on the …

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, I apologise to my younger brother for raising this point of order. However, is he in order to mislead himself and, in the process, give information that is totally untrue to this House and to the nation when he says that Angola would have the capacity to block the flow of the Zambezi River as though he is not aware that Zambia and other riparian States of the Zambezi River have a very comprehensive Zambezi River System Action Plan (ZACPLAN), which is an agreement stopping any one country from preventing another from enjoying the benefits of being a riparian State. 

Is he in order, Sir, to mislead the nation to that extent? I seek your serious ruling. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: To the extent that he overlooked the existence of that agreement, he is out of order.

You may continue with your debate, hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for that guidance, but suffice to say that contracts can be revoked and, if you are unable to control your own resources, definitely, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Once a ruling has been made, please, you are expected to move to the next point.

You may continue, and I know that is what you will do.

Mr Mufalali: Thank you, Sir. I will move to my next point.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about electricity. The hon. Minister said that REA will do several projects in rural areas. However, I want to remind him that before he came into office, we had feasibility studies of connecting Senanga to Lwanganti, Lipuwe, Lwimwemba and Songa. Unfortunately, these projects have not taken off. The studies were conducted in 1997 and people have come and gone. I managed to hand in the reports on the studies to the right people. When I went to see the Executive Director for REA, he told me that the Japanese International Co-operation Agency (JICA) and ZESCO were the ones handling that project and were going to sign a contract. However, I am wondering what is happening because, I believe, our people also need to benefit from the Zambezi River that passes through their area to go and generate power in Siavonga.

Therefore, Mr Chairperson, it is important that the hon. Minister follows up this matter and informs us what he is going to do about this feasibility study that was conducted and completed. We were told three months ago that the contract was going to be signed within a week between JICA and ZESCO to ensure that a tender was given to someone to build that power line. Up until now, we have not seen anything of that nature happening

Sir, it is important that people in the villages have access to electricity. If villagers in Namibia that is importing electricity from this country, have electricity in their homes, why can we not also enjoy the same facility? It is disheartening that forty-eight years after Independence, when you talk about electricity coming to the villages, some of the villagers do not even believe it. It is important that …

Hon. Government Member: Aah!

Mr Mufalali: You can say that because, maybe, you have electricity, but we do not have enough electricity in the Western Province.

Therefore, my plea to the hon. Minister is that as the resources that are meant for rural electrification are distributed, the Government should consider some of the places that have never benefited from the country’s provision of electricity.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me time to make a contribution to the debate on this very important Vote.

Sir, in his policy statement, the hon. Minister indicated very clearly that his ministry is at the centre of economic diversification and facilitating the meeting of the development aspirations of this country. Indeed, the ministry is crucial for creating the growth and jobs that the people of Zambia are so desperate for. However, his ministry also faces critical challenges. A number of them which must be addressed are the omission in the policy statement …

Ms Imenda: On a point of order Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, I would like to apologise to my brother on the Floor for interrupting his debate. I rise on a very serious point of order. We are aware that Zambia’s staple food is maize and mealie-meal in particular. Now, reports on the ground indicate that there are shortages of mealie-meal in some parts of the country. The shortage which was initially on the Copperbelt has spread to Lusaka. At the moment, in some places, people are queuing for mealie-meal. We are back to the United National Independence Party (UNIP) days when we used to queue for mealie-meal. Is the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock in order to keep quiet when there is this shortage of the country’s staple food? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that you raise an urgent question so that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock can provide an appropriate answer.

The hon. Member can continue.

Mr Mutati: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that the hon. Minister needs to address the critical issue of power deficit. It is estimated that we shall need additional power to the extent of almost 1000 MW by 2015. Indeed, in your numbers, hon. Minister you articulated that investment, only in generation, will be up to about US$4 billion by 2015. However, the ministry needs to put in place a financial strategy that will ensure that we find resources to bridge the gap between the power deficit and the demand for power. Otherwise, we shall reach 2015, the crisis point, without the ability to close that gap. If we do not do that, we will continue with the power blackouts, the low voltage and we will miss the opportunity to create jobs for the people of Zambia. So, in the policy statement, there was an absence of a clear financial strategy in meeting the investment needs, particularly of the generation sector in the power sector. This is critically important. Kafue Gorge, Itezhi-tezhi and all the other projects have a critical need for finances. The hon. Minister of Finance attempted to raise a bond, but out of that bond, he is only receiving, at best, US$200 million, which is totally insufficient to give you this US$4 billion that you need in order to avert the 2015 power crisis.

Mr Chairperson, the second thing which needs to be done is to re-examine the model which the Government is employing, particularly at REA. The way to extend power to the rural areas is always to pull wires and poles. That is creating a very expensive model of delivering power ultimately to the people and also driving the pressure on our tariffs. You must begin to critically investigate alternative ways of delivering cheaper power to the rural areas. Otherwise, the burden of the cost will ultimately come to the consumer. Let us look at other forms of delivering power. In most cases, we are investing amounts such as K20 billion to K30 billion in projects that will only yield 300 watts of power supply. Therefore, that model is not sustainable. It is actually taking us backwards in terms of developing the power sector. So, it is very important to re-examine the model of delivering power. 

The hon. Minister also needs to look at the slowing down of the overall investment …

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order on my right!

Mr Mutati: … in the REA. This year, the allocation to this institution has gone down by almost K100 billion, and yet we agreed in the master plan that by 2030, 50 per cent of our people will be connected to power. Now, with the reduction in investment in the sector, that goal will not be realised. 

Mr Chairperson, one of the issues we have been debating is the implementation of the open access which will allow the private sector to invest in the electricity sub-sector using power transmission lines. However, this requires a legal framework. That is the only way we are going to encourage, for example, people to invest in mini hydropower plants and solar grids and ultimately sell the power that they generate to the final consumer. Now this issue of open access, hon. Minister …

The Deputy Chairperson: Talk to him through the Chairperson.

Mr Mutati: Mr Chairperson, this issue remains a critical component in resolving some of the challenges that we have got in the power sector. Another critical issue that the hon. Minister must look at is that in the medium to long term, the answer to increasing power generation lies in developing a strategy on how to unbundle ZESCO. It is becoming unmanageable because it keeps growing bigger. 

In consequence, it is influencing a disproportional distribution of tariffs on the final consumer. The ministry needs to begin to think of how it is going to break up ZESCO in order to eliminate the inefficiency in the company and losses that are generated, particularly the technical losses, in the system. There lies the answer in getting a solution to power generation. It is a hard decision, but the hon. Minister needs to face it and begin to plan for it now and not later.

Mr Chairperson, I just want to say a few words on the mining sector. I have only got three issues to talk about on this sector. First of all, there is a need to create a framework for our local suppliers to the mines so that they can be respected. The mining sector must be disciplined enough to attend to our local suppliers the same way that they deal with international suppliers. Our local suppliers are the ones that are creating jobs but, in the process, most of them are going out of business because they are not respected by the mining sector, and yet these are the people who vote for politicians. Before we even go to the next stage of talking about encouraging local content and value addition, we need to ensure that our local entrepreneurs are respected. That is the first step that we need to take. So, of all the things that the Government is going to do in mining, it must make sure that there is discipline and respect for local suppliers by foreign companies.

Mr Chairperson, the second point is that we must demystify this whole issue of having different figures between the ministry, BoZ and mining companies in terms of what has been produced and what the actual production cost is. We need to begin to create the capacity to understand the mining sector in a fundamental way. I have seen that some money has been allocated to capacity building, but most of that money is for computers, vehicles and other things that do not address the human resource component of capacity building. That is what needs to be addressed in order to properly monitor the activities in the mining sector. The hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development is at the epicenter of economic growth for this country.

Unless you take the energy and mines sectors seriously, and detour from the path that does not generate sustainable solutions, the 90,000 or whatever number of jobs that Hon. Dr Musokotwane talked about, will just be a song. Unless we address the issues of the power deficit in the medium and long term, we are going to reverse the opportunity to create jobs for our people and pass on this inefficiency through higher tariffs. Unless we begin to develop a strategy on how we are going to finance expansion, particularly of generation, you are going to be the first hon. Minister to preside over a power crisis in 2015. Begin to work now.

Thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon. Members who have debated the policy statement for ministry and those who have not. Let me address some of the issues that were raised. 

I will start with the issued raised by Hon. Dr Musokotwane. We have been advised, time and again, to be factual in our debates. When Hon. Dr Musokotwane was contributing, he said that there are many engineers without jobs in the mines.  I want to remind him that I, personally, before I came here, was a superintendent in a mine. However, the people approached me because of the problems created by the MMD. So, they pulled me out of the plant and voted for me.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Hon. Dr Musokotwane was not there. He found me in this House, and I am telling him …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Let us not spend too much time debating ourselves.

Mr Mukanga: No.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

He has made his point, and I think that he must move to another. There are many issues concerning the ministry that he must address.

You can continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Mukanga: Thank you very much, Sir. I will address the issues that were raised. I thank the MMD for what they did for the people. I also thank them for the suffering they created for the people. 

Sir, I would like the MMD to inform the nation that some mines were closed and others opened during its reign.  It should do that because I know that a number of big mines closed during its time.  We must understand that there are new mines that have been opened.

Hon. Opposition Member: Have you opened any?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Mukanga: During the PF Government, the Trident Kalumbila Project will be the biggest open pit mine once opened. 

Hon. Opposition Member: That is for the MMD.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Mukanga: No, It was not opened during the MMD. Others to be opened are Ruel Gold Mine, Konkola North Mine, Mkushi Copper Mines, Dangote Project and Mukwerela Copper Mine. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mukanga: These are projects that are going to be opened during our time. Even the Manganese Project in Luapula Province will be implemented. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We are looking at issues more seriously than the MMD did. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: The PF Government will make sure that mining benefits the local people. I appreciate what the hon. Member for Malambo, Mr Maxwell Mwale said, which is exactly
 what we want to institute. There are too many licences that have been issued, which is not the way to go. We want to put them together and form co-operatives, then find a big brother so that there is a big investment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: That is what we want to achieve. I am sure that will benefit Zambians more.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: When you ask about the benefits that have accrued to Mufulira from MCM, the PF Government has been engaging the mine to lower the pollution levels. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: The mine has promised that by March, 2013, the collection of sulphur dioxide will rise to 97 per cent. The pollution with sulphur dioxide will be history in Mufulira next year. That is what we are working towards. When it comes to production, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Let me give guidance. I get increasingly concerned, especially when an hon. Minister is debating and hecklers come from the right. Instead of allowing the hon. Minister to debate, it is the right  that is interfering.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: I find that very discomforting. You have to give support to the hon. Minister as he debates.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: By the same token, on my left, I expect you to give the hon. Minister ample opportunity to respond. We gave you the opportunity to debate. Now is his opportunity to respond to the important points that you raised. Allow him that opportunity.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, when we talk about production, monitoring and auditing of large-scale mines, we have discovered that we have had many problems in trying to achieve metallurgical reconciliation. This is why we will commission a pilot project by the end of 2012 to ascertain mineral production levels by the large-scale mines. They have been producing their own figures while we have had our own. We believe that, for us to move forward, we need to be sure of what we are talking about. There will be a committee to see how best we can reconcile the two and move forward so that, at the end of it all, Zambians benefit from their wealth.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: In addition, a Statutory Instrument (SI) was issued in 2012 to introduce enhanced production and export regulation to improve revenue collection for Zambia. We have been looking at all the issues. Does the answer lie in the introduction of the windfall tax, no? Is it trying to look at other taxes? No, because, currently, the mineral royalty tax in Zambia is at 3 per cent. Compared with the taxes obtaining in the region, it is too high. Therefore, the answer lies in the proper reconciliation of figures so that we enhance the collection of revenue. That is what the PF Government is trying to do. We want the mines to benefit Zambians and be a source of revenue to a level at which we will diversify in other sectors.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: In the last few years, there has been lack of monitoring. We now want to put up an effective mechanism for monitoring materials. This we will do. 

When it comes to load shedding, Hon. Nkombo – It is a pity he has left. When you bring out issues, you should stay in the House. I admit that I did not mention everything we are doing to stop load shedding. However, there are a number of projects that we are implementing, as a Government. We have brought in private sector participation so that, come end of 2013, load shedding will reduce to minimal levels. Yes, it will. We are committed and you will hold me to that promise.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, in 2013, we will have the 50 MW heavy fuel plant in Ndola and the 180 MW Kariba North Expansion Project, both of which we spoke about. There are also other mini-hydropower stations which will come up in various places around the country, and will be able to electrify segregated installations around the country. We want to utilise all the sources of energy. We are also looking at wind power, solar energy and landfills. 

We are trying to look at many sources of energy so that the people of Zambia can get a decent life by having a reliable electricity supply system on their doorsteps. There are many things that we are looking at. For instance, in Shiwang’andu, we are going to commission a 1 MW project in the next few months.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, yes, 1 MW is a lot of power. In simple terms, 1 MW x 106  or, let me say, 1,000,000 W so that you can understand.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: Hon. Mutati, I do not understand the 1000 MW deficit you said we will have by 2015 because there are many projects we are implementing such as the production of 120 MW in Itezhi-tezhi, which will start by 2015, and 300 MW will be produced from Maamba Coal Mine. In fact, when it comes to the use of coal, we have two projects in the Southern Province that will produce 300 MW each, meaning that there will be 600 MW produced by next year. That is our plan. When I talk about all these plans, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mukanga: … I am talking about serious business.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, when we were on the left, we were not just saying, ‘Question!’ We were saying it because we knew where we were going.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, if they will just keep saying, ‘Question’, they will not get anywhere. We have been there. 

Mr Chairperson, with regard to ZCCM-IH, we have been looking at what its current position will be in the current arrangement. The ZCCM–IH is currently being profiled so that we can see how valuable it will be in the current context. The company will be doing some prospecting for oil and gas because it has a number of blocks. It will look at what investment it can make as well as networking. It will also be helping small-scale mines because it has expertise in these things, having been in the mining industry for a long time. 

Mr Chairperson, things are changing. Therefore, no one should say that they are not. There is a lot of change that the PF Government has brought in the mining sector.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: When the people voted for the party, they wanted this change ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: … and that change will be brought by no other Government, than the PF.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, we will do this under the leadership of His Excellency, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, His Excellency, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, is monitoring all these projects I am talking about.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Because of that, we will provide the services to the people of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, some people said that we should have dams in every constituency. I think that they do not understand what they are talking about. Hon. Mufalali said that he does not need any dams in the Western Province. Why should we give him dams when he does not need them? Why do you want dams in Kantanshi when you have mines? You should analyse things, and not say things just because you want to be heard.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, we are going to construct dams where they can be put and we are going to do that in accordance …

Mr Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_________
                                                                                    
HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

__________

The House adjourned at 1957 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 21st November 2012.