Friday, 26^th June, 2020

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

______

 

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an indication of the business it will consider next week.

 

Sir, on Tuesday 30^th June, 2020, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motions to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

 

1. Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights, National Guidance, Gender Matters and Governance, and
2. Budget Committee.

 

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 1^st July, 2020, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will, then, debate the Motions to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

        

1. Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources, and
2. Committee on Cabinet Affairs.

 

Thereafter, the House will consider the Committee Stage of the National Planning and Budgeting Bill, NAB No. 22 of 2019.

 

Sir, on Thursday, 2^nd July, 2020, the Business of House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motions to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

 

1. Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee, and
2. Committee on Parastatal Bodies on the Examination of Annual Reports for the Tanzania-Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA) for the years ended 31^st December, 2017 and 2018.

 

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 3^rd July, 2020, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time. Thereafter, the House will consider Questions for Oral Answer. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will, then, debate the Motions to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

 

1. Committee on Education, Science and Technology, and
2. Committee on Energy, Water Development and Tourism.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

_______

 

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, it is very difficult for me to believe that we still have a functioning Ministry of Home Affairs. I think it is time to change it to ҅Ministry of Discrimination and Segregation’. The reason is that it is taking the people of Monze, especially the youths, thirty days to acquire national registration cards (NRCs). When they go the NRC Offices, they are given receipts. I have a Government receipt with me here (Displaying a document) of a gentleman named Choobe who went to Monze on 2^nd June, 2020, to acquire an NRC and was told to go back on 2^nd July, 2020. He was given thirty days to wait. This is what the people at the registration office in Monze are doing.

 

Only about five people in a day are issued with NRCs. Is inhibiting the acquisition of NRCs on time the way the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is going to discriminate against the young people of Monze when people in other parts of the country are managing to acquire NRCs within thirty minutes or less? Is this the way the PF Government is going to continue discriminating against the people of Monze District?

 

If, indeed, the police were shooting all over –

 

The Vice-President (Ms Wina): Mr Speaker, this Government headed by His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, does not believe in discrimination on the basis of tribe, sex or age. The hon. Member may wish to know that there is a programme that the Ministry of Home Affairs is following regarding the issuance of National Registration Cards (NRCs), particularly in preparation for the elections that will be undertaken in 2021. Unless an office has run out of materials to use, currently, anyone can walk into a registration office and access an NRC. However, a programme will be given to the House for the information of the nation on when the mobile registration will take place in all the provinces, including Monze District, where the hon. Member is complaining about young people not having access to NRCs.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the issue that has been raised by Hon. Michelo is very pertinent to the obtainment of national registration cards (NRCs) in Monze and other places I know of in the Southern Province. What Hon. Michelo has indicated is what is obtaining on the ground. You cannot be given an NRC within a day. You have to be given after thirty days. The officers are saying that the instruction has come from the headquarters. Now that we have informed Her Honour the Vice-President, what measures will be put in place to ensure that the youths of Monze and other people who require NRCs are given without delay?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not believe that the Ministry of Home affairs can instruct its officials in the district not to issue NRCs. I explained earlier that if there was non-availability of materials in a given registration office, perhaps, a person would be told to go back the following week or when the materials would be available. As far as I know, every Zambian has a right to walk into the registration office and acquire an NRC. This will continue and when the mobile registration exercise starts, then, the issuance will be more accelerated than it is at the moment.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, just a quick housekeeping announcement. Hon. Members in the Chamber are also requested to use the same system to indicate. Therefore, I will be following the list as shown on my screen.

 

Hon. Member: What is the meaning of ‘the same system’?

 

Mr Speaker: The tablet.

 

Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, after the formation of Our Civic Duty Association (OCIDA), we have seen the ruling Government issuing statements to the organisation telling it that it will see what will happen to it if it plants a seed of discontent among the public. Why should the Patriotic Front (PF) be so jittery each time an organisation is formed?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I am not privy to the information from the Patriotic Front (PF) to that effect.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Mr Speaker, since the Constitution of Zambia Bill No.10 of 2019 is dead, I would like to find out if there are possibilities of it going back to all the stake holders, including the three church mother bodies.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, let me state here and now that the Constitution of Zambia Bill No.10 of 2019 is not dead. This House agreed to continue the debate on the Constitution of Zambia Bill No.10 of 2019. This will happen before the end of this Meeting. I cannot see how the hon. Member of Parliament can come back after he gave a go ahead to the debate on the Constitution of Zambia Bill No.10 of 2019 to say it is dead. It is not dead. It is still alive and kicking and will be debated in the House.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): inaudible.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mufumbwe, you are not audible.

 

The hon. Member for Mufumbwe requires assistance.

 

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, can you get me now?

 

Mr Speaker: Go ahead, hon. Member for Mufumbwe.

 

Mr Kamondo: Mr Speaker, when is the Government going to release the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) so that we can fund so many projects that have been lying around without funding and reduce the poverty levels that have escalated due to the Coronavirus Disease-2019 (Covid-19)?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is aware that with the advent of Covid-19, a lot of resources had to be diverted to address the issues of the pandemic. However, the Government has realised that governance has to continue. As such, there has been some mobilisation of resources to ensure that some of the activities that the Government undertakes continue, and I believe the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is one of the activities. It is a very important programme in the governance system of our country, particularly in addressing issues of infrastructure in the constituencies. I believe there will be a component in the stimulus package to address the CDF issues.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Mr Speaker, there are civil servants who got loans from various financial institutions whose deductions are done centrally at the Payroll Management and Establishment Control (PMEC). However, the deductions have not been remitted to the banks for as long as four months  –

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Moomba, you are not sufficiently audible.

 

Mr Chaatila: Mr Speaker, I hope you are getting me now.

 

Sir, my question relates to civil servants who got loans from financial institutions whose deductions are supposed to be done at PMEC which, in turn, is supposed to remit the money to the banks. For four or five months, deductions of funds for loans of some civil servants have not hit the bank accounts, and this has put our civil servants in bad standing with the banks. Why is the Government failing to pay the banks the money that does not belong to it and has been deducted from the pay slips of the civil servants? Why is the Government failing to pay the banks so that civil servants can continue enjoying facilities offered by the banks?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government has not failed to pay the banks to cover the obligations of the civil servants. It was a huge bill and, currently, it has reduced as the Ministry of Finance remits the money to the banks on behalf of the civil servants. This is an on-going process, and I believe that before the end of the year, we will see a drastically reduced bill with the banks.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, the contractor who was working on the Mongu/Limulunga Road immediately demobilised from the site after the Barotse Royal Establishment (BRE) rejected the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10. Does the Government have any reason the contractor demobilised from the site, apart from the BRE rejecting the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Mongu/Limulunga Road has nothing to do with the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10. Let us not politicise important matters such as the amendment of the Constitution. I think this has been said before and I urge hon. Members to be sincere. The works on the Mongu/Limulunga Road will continue. As a matter of fact, funds will be released to the contractor as soon as next week so that he continues improving that road in the shortest possible time.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, our President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, recently announced quite large amounts of money as stimulus packages in order to promote the entrepreneurial activities or abilities of the people of Zambia. My question targets the rural youths, especially the youths of Kaputa. What measures has the Government put in place to ensure that rural youths have access to those funds?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, apart from the stimulus package that was announced by the President recently, there are some on-going programmes in various ministries, including the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, where young people in rural districts are being empowered through aquaculture. Many young people are already benefiting from this programme and many more will benefit as they come to know about it. There are some programmes under the same ministry and the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources where youths are engaging in bee keeping. These programmes will be accelerated as more funds are being accessed by the youths in rural areas as well as in the resettlements. Further, some of our youths are being engaged to work on feeder roads in rural areas. So, there are quite a number of programmes in which the youths are being involved, and we hope that the participation of the youths in all these programmes will help to reduce poverty among the rural youths.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, the people of Chimwemwe would like to know what sanctions the Government will impose on the Lusaka City Council (LCC) and when for selectively allowing some foreign-owned bars and night clubs in Lusaka, for example, the Ryders Lounge just at Arcades Shopping Mall near here, to remain open at will. This is in total defiance of the clear Government ban arising from the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (Covid-19) pandemic.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the frustrations of the Bars and Night Clubs Owners Association of Zambia because bars are another source of job creation, particularly for our youths. However, I wish to state that if there are any places operating as bars under the guise of being restaurants, they are doing so illegally and must be stopped. My advice is that bar owners should, at the moment, abide by the guidance given by His Excellency the President, which is that bars should remain closed, especially during this cold season when the weather is not so favourable for them to open. I am very certain that His Excellency the President, at an appropriate time, will look into this matter. So, I call upon bar owners to be patient with the Government as this is in the interest of their health and that of the general public at large.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Ms Subulwa (Sioma): Mr Speaker, Sioma District was created some time in 2015, which saw the birth of infrastructure development. However, the construction of infrastructure in Sioma District has stalled since 2015. At the moment, people are anticipating to see the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill No. 10 of 2019 go through which will see the birth of more new districts. However, my question is: Does the Government have immediate plans to complete the infrastructure project or civic centre in Sioma District?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am glad that there are many hon. Members of Parliament who appreciate the enormous infrastructure development that is taking place in our country. In so doing, the Government has plans to complete some of this infrastructure, particularly in the new districts. To start with, the stimulus package has included a component of some resources to address the issue of completing some of the infrastructure in the new districts, including some infrastructure in Sioma District.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, since the onset of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (Covid-19) pandemic, there have been reports that a number of Chinese firms and contractors on the Copperbelt and Lusaka have been putting Zambian workers under quarantine against their will – basically forcing them – and this has made people in Chambeshi and other towns on the Copperbelt and in Lusaka very angry. I would like to find out what the Government is doing to address this issue.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Zambian Government is committed to protecting its workers. The Ministry of Labour and Social Security has given guidelines on how workers in factories, in particular, can be protected against the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (Covid-19) and what should be followed in order for this exercise to take place. The unions have been engaged to look into the matter of quarantining workers in factories. So, the people of this country should not worry about their nationals being exposed to unsafe conditions. This is being taken care of and the Ministry of Health is on top of things because of the continued testing of workers subjected to these working conditions.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Kintu (Solwezi East): Mr Speaker, the road between Kipushi and Solwezi is in a deplorable state. The Government assured the people of Mushindamo and, in particular, the people of Musaka and Kikola, that the road would be worked on. I have travelled on the road and only 10 km has been gravelled. When is the Government going to work on this road?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, most of the road contractors were not working due to the rains, but now that the rains are over, you will see many of them on our roads. The company that is working on the Kipushi/Solwezi Road, China State Construction Engineering Corporation (CSCEC), has been funded and will be on the road to start the works; I suppose in the shortest possible time or possibly this coming week. So, let me assure the hon. Member that the works will continue to be undertaken to improve the status of that road.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, there have been reports and, indeed, confirmation from the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) that it conducted a raid on the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ). Could Her Honour the Vice-President share with this House and the nation at large on that very important matter, seeing that football is one of the components that unite this country.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, indeed, the Government is aware that the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) General-Secretary, Mr Adrian Kashala, is being investigated for alleged fraud by the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC). The Government is also aware that on 11^th June, 2020, DEC officers visited the FAZ Secretariat where they confiscated a laptop and computer from the office of Mr Kashala. This followed the issuance of a search warrant by the Resident Magistrate permitting the DEC officers to enter the FAZ Secretariat, in line with Section 23 of the Prohibition and Prevention of Money Laundering Act No. 14 of 2001.

 

Sir, football is, indeed, a very popular sport in this country, and the Government would not wish to see the image of FAZ being compromised. Therefore, the Government will update this august House as soon as more information on the investigation is availed by the DEC.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: I have another housekeeping announcement for hon. Members. Please, remove your names immediately after you pose a question and it is answered.

 

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, according to the Resettlement Policy, the elected representatives of the people are supposed to be members of the committee to look after resettlement programmes in their areas. In Nkeyema, we have a resettlement scheme and a farming block in Lombelombe. However, the provincial office in Mongu has not been calling for meetings and we understand that there is a big programme by the Government to bring in farmers to rent farms in Lombelombe. At what point will information on this programme be given to the elected representatives of the people?

 

Mr Speaker: Could the hon. Member for Muchinga remove his name from the list.

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, whenever the Government undertakes a programme or project in a given district, in a particular constituency, the hon. Member of Parliament is always invited to meetings. However, on several occasions, some of the hon. Members of Parliament of this House have shunned these meetings. The Government has continued with the programmes, sometimes, without the hon. Members of Parliament, which is really very unfortunate because they are a part of the Government and they should be involved and participate in issues that affect the development of their constituencies or districts. As for the programmes in Lombelombe, the hon. Member will be informed as soon as they come to fruition.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, one of the reasons the youth were protesting this week was the rampant corruption in this Government.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Jere: To be precise, I am referring to the Honey Bee contract involving US$17 million. Could Her Honour the Vice-President confirm whether this contract was awarded to Honey Bee Pharmacy Limited before its incorporation in Zambia?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should know that some of our young people are misled and misinformed by politicians. This is not a new thing, as it is part of a programme by some political parties to discredit this Government. This has been sustained from 2016 to today and will continue. For as far as I can see, it will continue to paint this Government as a corrupt Government. This is not the only campaign. Young people are being persuaded to go in the bush –

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Hon. Members, I do not know why some people object to what I am saying because that is the truth of the matter. The young people are being told stories that cannot be verified, including some issues of corrupt activities. When these cases have been proven, then, we cannot expect this Government not to condemn such practices. However, to take action on the basis of perception and misinformation would be misleading our people, especially the youth. This Government will not condone corruption; and this is a fact.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to ask a question on behalf of the great people of Mwinilunga. Mwinilunga is increasingly becoming busy because of Kasenseli Mine, a cobalt and copper mine in Chief Chibwika’s area and another copper mine which is to open soon in Senior Chief Sialunga’s area as well as the pineapple farmers who have increased their production with markets in the urban centres. When is the Government going to work on the Mwinilunga/Solwezi Road and the Manyinga/Mwinilunga Road?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, funds permitting, these roads will be worked on. I cannot guarantee that the works will start this coming week, like I pointed out in the case of the two roads. However, the other roads are being looked into, at the moment.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Siwanzi (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, yesterday, we heard from the great leader of this country. He announced an empowerment package for the artistes in this country to a tune of K30 million. He further announced a US$29 million package for youths in this country wishing to venture into aquaculture.

 

Sir, what impact will this have on our youths such as traders in Nakonde, Chinsali, Shiwang’andu and Isoka? Further, what measures have been put in place by the Government to ensure that youths in the rural areas have information and can easily access this empowerment package?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the issue of information dissemination to our people is very important because, sometimes, people may complain about the lack of support from their Government simply because they do not have information.

 

Secondly, it is the issue of access to the programmes or projects. The Government needs to ensure that district offices and local authorities in the districts give out information as much as possible to the communities through the many platforms that can be used, particularly in the rural areas. That way, the young people can know about the possibilities of their participation in development. So, for the northern part of the country, a question regarding the many projects that are ongoing was posed a few minutes ago and I responded to it.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Musonda (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, there has been a lot of debate in the electronic and print media, including social media, generally by people who buy electricity units. This debate has come about due to Zesco Limited having set out new tariffs.

 

Mr Speaker, is the Government considering lowering the tariffs which have been set out by Zesco Limited in order to answer to the heavy debate that has surrounded this development?

 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this is a very important observation because the Government has received some presentations on the issue of Zesco Limited tariffs. However, the country should be aware that the tariff increment came at a time when the load management programme was between twelve and fourteen hours. Currently, it is between eight and ten hours. This impacted the rate of consumption of electricity units for households and there has been a fundamental shift following continued efforts to reduce the load shedding hours.

 

Mr Speaker, additionally, the Covid-19 stay home and stay safe measure has also increased consumption of electricity because of the notable increase in the use of gadgets used by households. The residential consumer purchasing patterns have shown that some customers front-loaded their electricity meters towards the end of 2019 when it was announced that tariffs would be increased from January. Therefore, with the bulky units of these customers gradually depleting through the year, the customers who had front-loaded the units are now beginning to feel the real effects of purchasing electricity which has led to the media and social media sentiments that the tariffs adjustment awarded was too high.

 

Mr Speaker, furthermore the company’s historical data indicates increased demand for electricity during the cold months of June and July that many households tend to use electricity more for heating compared to other months of the year. However, the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) has commenced investigations into the alleged default meters and high electricity consumption patterns for residential customers. The findings of the investigations will be shared with the public. The Government will continue to promote conservation measures such as the Switch and Save Campaign to encourage households to use less electricity and consequently, spend less on purchasing electricity power.

 

Mr Speaker, in addition, the Government will continue to put in place measures that will ensure further reduction in load shedding and increased access to electricity.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

 

______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

NAMBULUMA ASPHALT CONCRETE DUAL CARRIAGEWAY

 

248. Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

 

1. when the construction of the 47-km access roads in Chinsali District will commence;
2. what has caused the delay in commencing the project;
3. when the construction of the 15-km asphalt concrete dual carriageway from Nambuluma to the Central Business District will commence; and
4. what has caused the delay in commencing the project.

 

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, the completion of the 47-km access roads in Chinsali District will commence once funds have been secured and procurement of works has been concluded.

 

Sir, project commencement has been delayed due to financing constraints. Construction of the 15-km asphalt concrete dual carriageway from Nambuluma to the Central Business District will commence once funds have been secured and procurement of the works has been concluded. The project commencement has been delayed due to funding constraints.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, this is a procedural point of order, I just need your guidance. I recall that you advised that those of us who are in the Assembly Chamber would be using the normal gadgets when indicating our intentions to debate. However, this morning, we were advised that we will be using the tablets, again, when we want to indicate or raise a point of order. It is causing confusion. I need your guidance on this matter.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Leader of the Opposition, I appreciate your point of order. As you are fully aware, this is a system that we have just put in place. We are still refining it. Indeed, it is hybrid, but I am advised by the technocrats that as far as registration is concerned, which means the recording of hon. Members’ attendance, the raising of points of order, indicating and voting, it will be done using your tablets. That is the way the system has been configured. That is my ruling.

 

Mr Muchima: On a point of procedure, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: The House has not abandoned its rules.

 

Interruption

 

Mr Speaker: I have just rendered my ruling.

 

Interjection

 

Mr Speaker. I have rendered a ruling and there is nobody on the Floor, as I am speaking. 

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of procedure, Sir.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: Yes!

 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

 

Mr Nkombo: What is your problem?

 

Mr Muchima rose.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

 

Can the technocrats attend to Hon. Muchima in case his is a technical problem.

 

Mr Muchima: No, it is general.

 

Mr Speaker: I will be advised in due course. In the meantime, the hon. Minister is responding to questions.

 

Mr Muchima: On a point of procedure, Sir.

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, some time back, hon. Members were advised that there would be a circular regarding the manner and sequence of how roads would be worked on. The situation arising in Chinsali is the same as in many districts of this Republic. I would like the hon. Minister to update the House and the nation at large on when many of the districts will have access roads worked on because Kazungula is one such district where attendance to access roads has been outstanding for a long time.

 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the information is now available. It has been compiled and is ready to be availed to hon. Members of Parliament. This will be done as soon as possible. It is only because of what has been going on in the country that we have not been able to do it. However, we are ready to distribute the information.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I appreciate your kindness. My point of order is pursuant to Standing Order 2, under definitions on page 6, which reads as follows:

 

“... ῾stranger’ means a person other than the President, a foreign dignitary, a member, an officer or an accredited journalist on the Floor of the House.”

 

Mr Speaker, under this new order, I have checked that there is a stranger in our midst, as defined by the Standing Orders. Allow me first to encourage you to be strong as you make a ruling on this point of order.

 

I have documents here that I will lay on the Table of the House, in form of letters between your office and the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD):

 

 “RE: NS/MMD 07/2020

 

5^th February, 2020

 

The Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia

Parliament Buildings

Lusaka.

 

Dear Madam,

 

RE: MR RAPHAEL MANGANI NAKACHINDA

 

The above matter refers.

 

At the direction of the National Executive Committee, I write to refer you to the Parliamentary Handbook of the Twelfth National Assembly of Zambia which was delivered to our office, with specific reference to page 81 where Mr Nakachinda has been captured as MMD.

 

I also wish to refer you to what the then special Assistant of Press to the President of Zambia − Mr Amos Chanda, said in informing the nation when Mr Nakachinda was nominated to Parliament, he stated that Mr Nakachinda was nominated as Member of Parliament in order to cement the relationship between the PF and MMD. Further when a point of order was raised by Hon Jack Mwiimbu in Parliament as to whether Mr Nakachinda was in order to seat on the Opposition side, your office restated that he was perfectly seated and in order as he was MMD.

 

Madam Clerk, we forwarded to the Speaker copy of the judgment, refer to page J154 paragraph 3. Mr Nakachinda (3^rd Defendant) remains suspended from our Party and can not therefore continue to enjoy the rights of membership of our party. He can not continue to participate in any activities, including being referred to a nominated MMD Member of Parliament. We, therefore, request that the information in the hand book be corrected to strike out MMD nominated Member.

 

As far as the party is concerned, Mr Nakachinda is not our member to that extent of being our representative (howbeit nominated), in the August House. We have sadly observed that he is using this position to continue his destabilization activities in our party and misinform the general public.

 

We are aware that the President has powers to nominate any Zambian and that is why his status in the Hand book should be corrected to show that he is in Parliament as an individual and as a Zambian.

 

Kindly be informed accordingly.

 

Yours in national service

 

Elizabeth Chitika.

National Secretary.”

 

Mr Speaker, in order for this point of order to sustain, I am also going to quote a response from your office signed under the hand of Mrs Doris N. Kapumba, for the Clerk of the National Assembly. I will just read the relevant parts to save time. It is obviously addressed to Ms Chitika as follows:

 

“RE: MR RAPHAEL MANGANI NAKACHINDA

 

With reference to the above subject, I am directed to acknowledge, with thanks, receipt of your letter dated 5^th February, 2020, and contents therein are duly noted.

 

I am further directed to inform you that the National Assembly publishes a Public Parliamentary Handbook for each National Assembly. The Handbook contains information on Members, including on the political party to which they belong.

 

As rightly observed in your letter, Mr R. Nakachinda has been reflected as a member of the MMD in the 2016-2021 Handbook. Since Mr R. Nakachinda, MP’s suspension from the MMD does not amount to an expulsion, it does not affect his status as a member of the party. It is for this reason that he has been reflected as a member of the MMD in the Handbook.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Doris N. Kapumba (Mrs)

 for/ CLERK OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY.”

 

Mr Speaker, finally, a very short letter that was written by the MMD and copied to your office, dated 22^nd June, 2020, reads as follows:

 

“RE: EXPULSION FROM THE PARTY

 

Following your exculpatory letter of 2016, we wrote to you on the 15^th of November 2019 inviting you to appear before the Disciplinary Committee but you and your agents refused to get the letter first through the Clerk’s office at Parliament, second attempt was through your wife in Kafue, the third attempt was through the police in Kafue and lastly through the police, Lusaka Central Anti Theft Division who had called you and you rudely told him in our presence since when did he become a mail runner for MMD. This show of arrogance and insubordination and disregard for the party leadership cannot be entertained.

 

Further, you have continued holding meetings in Lusaka, Chipata, Luangwa and other places in the country: you continue to bring the name of the party into disrepute and slander thereby injuring the image of the party and abrogating sections of the Party Constitution which relate to obligations of a member namely Article 10 (a) (c) (d) (h) (j) (k). In addition, you have lamentably failed to adhere to your suspension conditions restraining you, your agents and servants from having any dealings and contacts whatsoever, with Party structures during the period of your suspension.

 

With all these constitutional violations, I wish to inform you that the National Executive Committee (NEC) of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) at its sitting on 20^th June 2020 at the Party Secretariat and using its inherent powers vested in it and in accordance with the Disciplinary procedure, inter-alia 52(2) and 19(n) of its Party Constitution resolved to expel you from the Party with immediate effect.

 

In line with Article 5(3) of our Party Constitution, you therefore, cease to be a member of the Party and you will have nothing to do with all the Party activities and you are required to surrender all Party property in your possession. Accordingly the Honourable Mr Speaker of the National Assembly is informed ... appropriate action.

 

Yours in service of the party

 

 

 Elizabeth K. Chitika

National Secretary”

 

Mr Speaker, a precedent has been set before in the case of Dr Chishimba Kambwili when the hon. Member of Parliament for Malambo, seated across me, Hon. Makebi Zulu, raised a point of order –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, I have been very liberal and, as you know, under the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) rules, we have very limited time. I would like you to get to your point of order, please.

 

Mr Nkombo: Yes, Mr Speaker, as I urge you to be strong as you make the ruling in light of the above, is Hon. Nakacinda in order to continue coming here masquerading as an MMD nominated Member of Parliament? Is he in order to stay in this House as expelled as he is? Why can he not wait for the President to nominate him in his own individual capacity?

 

I seek your ruling, Mr Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Speaker: I will make my very terse ruling.

 

Mr Nkombo: Be strong!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: When the hon. Member in question was nominated, and I am speaking off the cuff, I think it is Article 69 − the Clerks, please, confirm because I am using my memory now. I want the Article on nomination. The Clerk, please, check Article 68 or 69 in the Constitution of Zambia so that the Hansard is clear. I do not have the Constitution of Zambia before me. I am relying on my memory. 

 

Hon. Chabi: I have it.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Are you a Clerk?

 

Laughter

 

Ms Lubezhi: Do you need his assistance, Sir?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

 Let us have order. The power under which Hon. Nakacinda was nominated is Article 69 and it just refers to a person, just a person.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: You do not have to belong to any party to be nominated. So, all these party politics have nothing to do with this office. They have everything to do with what is happening outside. Those are party politics which should not be brought here.

 

Ms Lubezhi: They are saying that he should stop using their party.

 

Mr Speaker: He is a nominated Member of Parliament, period. This is the last point of order I am allowing today. We have a lot of business and we have limited time. Who was on the Floor before this interjection?

 

The hon. Member for Kabompo may continue.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I would like you to clarify one issue. During Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, given the new gadgets, when does one indicate to speak?

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, is that a point of order?

 

Mr Lufuma: Sir, it is just a point of clarification.

 

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development had responded to a question and what I am permitting now are follow-up questions and that is what I was expecting. I was expecting you to ask a question or seek clarification from the hon. Minister, but now you have gone to gadgets.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

 

Mr Speaker: I am afraid I will not permit you unless you have a question for the hon. Minister. If you do not have, we will move on. There are colleagues who are waiting to ask questions.

 

Mr Lufuma: I do not have a question, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: Very well, take your seat.

 

The hon. Member for Nakonde will be followed by the hon. Member for Chinsali and the last question will be from the hon. Member for Kasempa; in that order.

 

Mr Siwanzi (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, in his response to the question posed by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chinsali Central, the hon. Minister indicated that the asphalt concrete road from Nambuluma to the Central Business District (CBD) of Chinsali, which is supposed to be a dual carriage way, will only be worked on when funds are available.

 

There was an indication earlier by the Road Development Agency (RDA) that this particular road may be a variation, which will make it part of the road project from Chinsali to Nakonde, which is funded under the African Development Bank (AfDB). If that is the case, is there a challenge on the part of AfDB in terms of the flow of cash? I have noticed that this particular project is slowing down the project between Chinsali and Nakonde where we expect that there will be a variation to include this particular stretch of the road.

 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, indeed, our intention was to vary funds from the Chinsali/Nakonde Road project, which is funded by the African Development Bank (AfDB). What has happened is that we have actually made some savings on that road project even though it is loan funded because the estimates of the cost were high. The AfDB allowed us to vary some of that money which was saved to some projects within the same region. What has happened now is that the AfDB has come back to us and said that all the savings we have made must actually be varied to support the fight against COVID-19. The AfDB is reluctant to allow us to use the savings from that project on road related issues, but that we must divert them to health related issues. This is coming from AfDB and the World Bank is also persuading us to do the same. So, we are still negotiating and that is why my answer is that we are unable to say we are going to work on the road until we secure those funds.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukosa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the two projects are only going to commence upon availability of funds. In his response to the question raised by the hon. Member for Nakonde, the hon. Minister has given reasons the ministry cannot use the savings that were made on the Chinsali/Nakonde project on the Nambuluma/Chinsali Central Business District (CBD) project.

 

Sir, I would like to find out whether he has been in discussions with the hon. Minister of Finance to find out when he is likely to find the money that is going to be used to facilitate the implementation of these two important projects in Chinsali, that is the construction of the dual carriage asphalt concrete road from Nambuluma to Chinsali Post Office and the 47-km access roads in Chinsali. If he has been in discussions with the hon. Minister of Finance, what has been his response regarding this matter?

 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, we are in constant engagement with the Ministry of Finance on issues to do with roads. In fact, the hon. Minister of Finance urged us to prioritise our projects so that the ministry could, then, look for financing that will support the prioritised projects. We, together with the Ministry of Local Government, have worked on that priority list

 

Mr Speaker, I can confirm that the road in question has been included. However, a priority list is just a wish list and it now depends on the Ministry of Finance to be able to raise those funds that will meet the priority list or not. If the ministry funds everything, then, we would be happy that all the roads that we have prioritised will be worked on. If the ministry will not be able to raise funds for everything that is required, then, we will have to rely on our initiative such as to vary funds from the Nakonde project, that is if we succeed in convincing AfDB to retain funds on the road project rather than taking funds to the fight against Covid-19.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, in the same line with the people of Chinsali, Kasempa has a situation whereby one of the roads under the Link Zambia 8,000 Road Project has had a permanent death trap since 2014 in the sense that there are heaps of gravel that were left by some contractor some five or six years ago on which we have witnessed many deaths of motorists and cyclists.

 

I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when those death traps in the form of heaped gravel will be removed so that the safety of the people who are riding on that road is secured in Chief Ingwe area.

 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I would like to request that the hon. Member of Kasempa files in a question particularly for that road. I can bring the researched answer that will be particularly responding to contractual issues there, what we have done, if it is one of the prioritised roads, and how much it will need us to deal with that situation. I can, then, give an appropriate answer. Otherwise, I will not give her a satisfying response. With your indulgence, if she could ask a question.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: I totally agree with the hon. Minister. Hon. Member for Kasempa, in order for you to have a full response, please, file in a question. We will deal with it as quickly as we can.

 

_______

 

MOTIONS

 

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON YOUTH, SPORT AND CHILD MATTERS

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Youth, Sport and Child Matters for the Fourth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly, laid on the table of the House on Friday, 19^th June, 2020.

 

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

 

Ms Kabanshi (Luapula): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, in accordance with Standing Order no 157, your Committee undertook a detailed study on the implementation of the Youth Development Fund (YDF).

 

Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP) indicates that the population of the youth in Zambia, that is to say persons between the ages of fifteen and thirty-five years, is estimated at 4.8 million. In recognition of this and in a quest to take advantage of the large youthful population for socio-economic advancement, the Government established the YDF.

 

Sir, the overall objective of the YDF is to provide financing to viable projects by youth entrepreneurs and enable them to benefit from associated training and mentorship services. In this regard, the YDF is a Government initiative to support the growth of sustainable youth-led Small and Medium Enterprises (SMES) in the private sector for wealth and employment creation.

 

Sir, to appreciate how the fund has been implemented, your Committee interacted with various stakeholders, including ministries and other Government agencies.

 

Mr Speaker, one key issue probed by your Committee was the adequacy of the legal framework governing the YDF. Let me state from the outset that it is disheartening to note that all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee bemoaned the absence of a legal framework to guide the operations of the fund. Your Committee notes, in particular, that despite the policy being in place, there is no legal instrument to govern the operations of the YDF. In the view of your Committee, the reason that most of the youth who benefit from the fund cannot be compelled to pay back the loans is because there is no provision for penalties for default.

 

In this regard, your Committee strongly recommends that, as a matter of urgency, the Government puts in place a legal framework that will govern the operations of the fund and provide, among others, for penalties against defaulters, which will compel the beneficiaries to comply and pay back their loans.

 

Mr Speaker, another area your Committee took keen interest in is the overall management of the fund. Your Committee notes, with concern, that the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development lacks the necessary skills to effectively manage the disbursement of the fund and this has contributed to its poor performance. It is your Committee’s considered view that because the management of such funds is not its core function, the ministry lacks professionals to effectively assess projects, interpret businesses and make financial projections as well as effective debt recovery. For example, your Committee was appalled to learn that there is no database on the beneficiaries of the YDF, making it difficult to monitor their businesses and to follow up beneficiaries for the purpose of ensuring that they pay back their loans. If the fund is to bear its desired fruits, this unfortunate situation should not be allowed to continue.

 

In this vein, Sir, your Committee strongly implores the Government to explore the possibilities of improving the management of the fund and recommends that the Government considers engaging an independent Fund Manager. The Fund Manager should be an established financial institution with experience in credit services provision.

 

Sir, your Committee is also concerned that a programme of this magnitude is being implemented without a systematic monitoring and evaluation mechanism in place. With the first monitoring and evaluation exercise of the programme only being done seventeen years after its commencement, this makes it difficult to track and measure the impact that the fund is making so as to address the challenges it is facing. An up-to-date database would provide an opportunity for the Government to remind the beneficiaries whose payments are due and to undertake on-the-spot checks on the number of jobs created by the beneficiaries. In this vein, your Committee recommends that the Government urgently considers creating a database and institute a robust monitoring and evaluation mechanism for all YDF beneficiaries.

 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Mr Speaker: Does the Seconder wish to speak now or later.

 

Ms Kabanshi: Now, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker, let me start by thanking you for affording me this opportunity to second the Motion that has been ably moved by the Chairperson that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Youth, Sports and Child Matters for the Fourth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 19^th June, 2020.

 

Sir, in seconding the Motion, let me take this opportunity, on behalf of your Committee and, indeed, on my own behalf to thank the Chairperson of your Committee for the able manner in which he presided over the deliberations of your Committee.

 

Mr Speaker, most of the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee lamented the inadequacy of information flow regarding the Youth Development Fund (YDF). What was coming out was that most people who had information on this fund were from urban and peri-urban areas. Even the number of beneficiaries was high in urban and peri-urban areas.

 

Mr Speaker, it is regrettable that most of the youths in rural areas had very scanty information about the YDF such that the number of youths that accessed it was small.

 

Sir, the other issue that I would like to refer to is the one which was raised by the Chairperson of your Committee on the data which was not available. The data which was available was very scanty and was also not disaggregated according to gender and did not state whether there were differently abled youths among the youths who accessed the fund.

 

Mr Speaker, your Committee strongly believes that this should not be allowed to continue and recommends that the Government comes up with a robust sensitisation programme to afford all the youths in the country to have information on the YDF.

 

Mr Speaker, your Committee also observed, with concern, that despite the applications for grants and loans being reviewed and approved, the disbursement of funds was often delayed, which made it very difficult for the youths to implement projects they had planned effectively. Your Committee also found that to be unacceptable because with the environment that is prevailing, at the moment, where exchange rates and the prices of goods and services are fluctuating, this is making the projects that the youths have planned not to have an impact on job creation and poverty reduction.

 

Mr Speaker, your Committee strongly recommends that the Government takes steps to ensure timely release of funds in order to enable beneficiaries to undertake their planned projects.

 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, let me take this opportunity to thank you for the guidance that you rendered to your Committee. I also thank the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee. Lastly, but not the least, my gratitude goes to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the unwavering support and the guidance rendered to your Committee during its deliberations.

 

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Before I allow further debate, I would like to announce to the hon. Members who may not have been present when I indicated that no further points of order will be allowed. They will only be allowed on 30^th June, 2020.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, on behalf of the people of Kaputa, I thank you for the opportunity to support this important report that has been tabled by –

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kaputa, you are not audible; whatever is happening there.

 

Mr Ng’onga: That is what I thought.

 

Mr Speaker, Am I audible now?

 

Mr Speaker: Your voice is muffled.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, can I be heard now?

 

Mr Speaker: You can now continue with your debate.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, on behalf of the people of Kaputa, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this important report tabled by your Committee on Youth, Sport and Child Matters.

 

Sir, the subject on the Youth Development Fund (YDF) that the report delved into is very important. From the report, it can be seen that the fund was initiated many years back in 2000, and we expected it to have contributed immensely to the development of entrepreneurial skills of our youths. Some of the objectives that were set, then, included job creation, business exposure and the livelihood impact for the youths, which we all would have loved to have seen in rural places.

 

Mr Speaker, my intervention is basically based on the challenges that have been highlighted in the report and one of them, which I totally agree with, is that there is limited information dissemination or a lack of it, especially in rural places. The report is very categorical in the sense that more information is availed to the youths in urban centres and along the line of rail. Even as we look at the results that came from the research that was carried out between 2011 and 2014, in terms of the distribution, only 5 per cent of the amount of money that was disbursed went to Muchinga Province and 7 per cent to the Northern Province, against 23 per cent for Lusaka Province and 12 per cent for the Copperbelt Province, and this tells a story.

 

Mr Speaker, the 5 per cent for Muchinga Province and 7 per cent for the Northern Province is real. When you look at the disbursement for the Northern Province, it could have probably only ended up in the central town of Kasama and may not have gone beyond Kaputa, Mporokoso, Nsama and other districts, and that is the big challenge that we have. Information has either not been reaching all of us, including our youths, or there has been a deliberate denial of the youths from rural areas to be a part of youths who can benefit from this fund.

 

Sir, I urge the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development to enable the youths from rural areas to benefit from this fund. The population of the rural youths is very big and this is the big challenge that we, as hon. Members, are all grappling with. How do we empower them and make them a part of the beneficiaries of this nation? Even as we are in urban centres, we see youths being involved and when they speak, they are loud and clear. However, the youths in rural areas are equally in need of benefitting from this particular funding.

 

Mr Speaker, the other issue is the application process. We cannot deny that even if children in rural areas complete Grade 12, they are not competent with the electronic platform (e-Platform) like those in urban centres. Most times, the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development puts information on the website and this basically means that only those in urban centres and along the line of rail can access this information. It cannot be accessed by the youths in Kaputa because we do not have fibre connection and there is no internet system. So, basically, we need to have another way of targeting the youths in rural places so that they can access the YDF.

 

Sir, delayed disbursement of the funds is another worrying issue. Some youths could have had viable projects at the time of applying for the funds such as poultry or aquaculture and could have prepared everything, but then it takes six months to one year to receive the funds. Sometimes, they may even forget such that those who were members of the co-operative change and start doing other things. So, by the time they receive the funds, they are not as organised as they were at the beginning when they were expecting the funds. Therefore, I urge those who are involved in the disbursement of the funds to ensure that when the application of the funds is announced, the processes are quickened so that the youths are able to receive them. Then, we will see them get engaged and they will even pay back, if there are loans to be paid back.

 

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Fube (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving the people of Chilubi the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this very important topic.

 

Mr Speaker, to start with, the Youth Empowerment Fund was tailored around what is called the competence based approach, meaning that it has to be multi-sectoral in nature. I know that from the report, we learnt about the lack of a legal framework and many other things that would have been beefed up, especially on the recovery side. However, the funds should be anchored on the existing documents. In as far as there is no legal framework, I think, the policy environment which should support the fund is available. What I mean is that there are three documents. One document has to do with youth empowerment, another document with the youth plan of action and the other document with the youth policy itself, which stipulates who should benefit and how the funds should be channelled.

 

Mr Speaker, we need to realise that the youths, as a group, are heterogeneous and not homogeneous. Thereby, the competence based approach is supposed to be implemented according to what is available in a particular place. For instance, if what is available in Chilubi is fish farming, it will be ideal to support fish farming in that particular area. If what is available in Mwinilunga is pineapple farming, funds should be channelled to that particular area. However, what has been happening is that when the Youth Empowerment Fund is advertised, youths go on a fishing expedition in search of different solutions, which are not even ideal for certain areas.

 

Mr Speaker, again, I would like to talk about the multi-sectoral approach. When it is multi- sectoral, the Youth Empowerment Fund should not just be under the ambit of the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development alone, especially that we are talking about a population of about 4.8 million youths. The fund should be spread across ministries. What I mean is that the youths should find a footing in, for example, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development and the Ministry of Higher Education, as this supports their heterogeneous nature. Some youths may need educational loans, which is an investment in nature, while others need a different industry away from the one that is stipulated in a rural set up per se.

 

Mr Speaker, for instance, we have funds like the Tourism Facility Fund and the Irrigation Fund which, I think, the youths should have a stake in. However, what we have done is to limit ourselves to just the Youth Empowerment Fund. The youths are also a productive force which should be an engine to the economy. If we are to realise any dividends out of the Youth Empowerment Fund or youth empowerment in general, that may not necessarily be limited to the Youth Empowerment Fund, we need to broaden the scope in as far as youth empowerment is concerned. We need to think about wealth and youth employment creation.

 

Mr Speaker, when we talk about recovery, it has to do with the mindset versus the legal framework. Even without the legal framework, I believe that the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development has taken care of the youths’ mindset. I believe that before the disbursement of the Youth Empowerment Fund, the youths pass through workshops where they are trained in business and psychosocial skills. However, at the end of the day, the mindset of the youths also has to be attended to. We would not like to see a situation where a youth, who applied for funds to run a piggery, accesses funds and the next day is seen pushing a trolley in Shoprite full of groceries and other things that he/she has never accessed in his/her life. So, youths should be productive forces and should think about production than consumption. We need to have a mind shift. There has to be a paradigm shift in terms of looking at the youths. We can harness the energy that the youths have, especially that we are a resource-rich country. We need to invest in areas that can pay dividends. We know, for instance, that we have started discovering –

 

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member’s time has expired.

 

Hon. Member, you have exhausted your time.

 

Mr Fube: Mr Speaker, let me wrap up by saying that we need to broaden the scope of the Youth Empowerment Fund.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity.

 

Mr Speaker, youth empowerment is quite important in our country. At the moment, we have seen how our youths are crying because they are yearning to be empowered by the Government.

 

Sir, I thank the mover of this important report as it has spoken about important things. However, I would like to say that before the Youth Development Fund (YDF) was put in place, I feel the Government had not done much. What was supposed to be done firstly was to, at least, look at how to provide some training for the youths. There is funding, but most of the youths have not been trained in several areas of business. They just apply for funding without possessing skills. Therefore, the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development should work with other ministries in order to come up with ideas on how to help the youths before they start giving out the loans.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government is facing a challenge of recovering loans that were lent out to the youths because the youths were given the money without financial intelligence training and it did not look at whether the youths fully understood the markets of the particular businesses they intended to venture into. So, in order for the funds to work for the youths, it is important for the Government to look at how it can firstly provide training. Like other hon. Members already said, it is important for the youths of Chienge to be trained in aquaculture because that is their livelihood and they understand the lifestyle of fishing.

 

Sir, the YDF has not been well publicised to enable the youths all over the country to know about it. I have just heard the Government talk about the K30 million that is going to be dished out to the youths, but the youths in rural areas have not even heard of this good news. So, it is important that the YDF is well publicised in all languages to all areas of this country. It is not only youths who are educated who can run businesses. Even those who are not educated can run businesses. As long as they can understand how to take care of money and grow their businesses, they deserve to access the YDF. Unfortunately, only those who are educated and are in the urban areas are able to access the funds.

 

Mr Speaker, it is very important for the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development to work with other ministries to see how they can help even the graduates. The problem I have found is that we have graduates who are looking for white collar jobs. So, the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development, the Ministry of General Education and the Ministry of Higher Education should put it in the minds of graduates that it is not only about looking at finding white collar jobs, but also about starting businesses. When they borrow this money, they will be able to put it to good use and grow their businesses.

 

Sir, lastly, I would like the ministry to review the YDF and see how it can incorporate hon. Members of Parliament. Just as hon. Members receive the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), the YDF can be channelled through them. Maybe, that can help us reach out to our youths in our constituencies.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, we need to make progress. I will allow a few hon. Members to debate and these will be the last. These are the hon. Member for Kapiri Mposhi, the hon. Member for Milenge, the hon. Member for Mapatizya, the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi and the hon. Member for Bangweulu. We will close at that point.

 

Mr Kakubo (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. It is an honour to speak on behalf of the millions of youths across the country.

 

Mr Speaker, this subject is extremely important. I recall that on 23^rd January, 2020, I chaired a meeting here at Parliament where this issue was discussed in the Expanded Budget Committee. I recall that we established that the Youth Development Fund (YDF) was actually suspended by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government five years ago. However, a suspension of five years is actually an abolishment of an important policy and because of decisions like this, something has moved in the youths of this country. Something in the hearts and minds of the young people in this country has moved because we have come to the realisation that this Government is not with us and, in fact, has never been with us. When it comes to jobs, it is the same thing. It is this same Government that, at one point, made an announcement that the youths of this country must migrate to Dubai and become house servants and taxi drivers. The Government asked its own young people to do this because of its failure to provide funds for empowerment. It asked us to migrate, leave this country, leave the land of our forefathers, the land on which our umbilical cords are buried. The Government requested the young people of this country to move to Dubai, to leave the land which has gold, diamonds, emeralds, forests, lakes and rivers. This is the Government we are faced with, and we are not willing to negotiate when it comes to funding.

 

Mr Speaker, when the economy became very bad, the youths complained. We, as young people, have been hard hit more than anybody else. We had a pronouncement this time from the outgoing tenants of State House, who said that they would cut down their own salaries to mitigate the effects of the bad economy on young people. Seriously, how can individuals’ salaries be distributed among 4.8 million youths? Our frustrations and disgruntlement, as young people, have prompted knee-jerk reactions from this Government.

 

Mr Speaker, a few weeks ago when the youths wanted to have a protest, a peaceful one for that matter, the hon. Minister responsible for this fund called for a meeting at Government Complex and advised fifty people that there were opportunities in mining and manufacturing. What opportunities when what we have seen is that from last year, our economy has effectively been in recession? What opportunities are there? There are no opportunities.

 

Mr Speaker, we need to succeed in this country first. If one carries out a simple analysis, he/she will find that there has been an inverse relationship between the welfare of the young people in this country and the welfare of the hon. Ministers here. We have seen the creation of billionaires –

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, you do not have that liberty to debate your colleagues in that fashion. Concentrate on the subject.

 

Mr Kakubo: Mr Speaker, it is an emotional subject for us, but I withdraw that.

 

Mr Speaker, in view of the things that I have mentioned, so far, and the time that is allocated to me, I just want to say to the Government that we are aware that billionaires have been created in this country at the detriment of the young people’s success. It is difficult to succeed in this country, whether one is a student or not and there is no system whatsoever that has been established by the Patriotic Front (PF) to absorb young people into this economy. We are not participants in this economy. An example is that any young person in this country with a child, whether from the PF, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) or anywhere else, goes to the same shops. The prices of commodities have become too high. Education and food are too expensive, and everything is expensive, not to mention electricity. For instance, for a young farmer in Kapiri, the Government failed to deliver farming inputs. What kind of empowerment is there?

 

Mr Speaker, nonetheless, there is hope for our people. The youths are now ready to show the country the true meaning of the arrogance of numbers that has been used here by the PF. We shall take a leaf from the youths in Malawi and from now onwards, it is game on.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this rare opportunity to participate in this debate. In my language, we say, “apakomaila nondo pali ubulema,” meaning when you keep on emphasising one point, just know that there is something about it. In this regard, I mean that despite the report being quite long, all of us are emphasising the Youth Development Fund (YDF). There is a problem with this fund.

 

Mr Speaker, let me share something that you will call obiter dictum. In this country, there are very few things that I regard as very good. One such thing is the policy of the 20 per cent sub-contracting that we have given to the youths. This programme is very good, if properly handled, and I liken it to the YDF. It is a noble cause and the intentions were good. You will recall that the report indicates to us that the creation of this fund from 2000 to 2004 was as a result of economic and social factors such as unemployment. Another social factor at that time was the prevalence of the Human Immuno-deficiency Virus (HIV). Equally today in 2020, the economic meltdown or problems are still there, coupled with the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and unemployment levels which are still high.

 

So, that is why every successive Government thought and still feels that using this fund, we can create wealth for our youth. However, that has not been the case. So, we need to engage in introspection and ask ourselves where we have gone wrong. I believe that both the youths and the Government have not done a good job. Money has been disbursed to the youths, but look at the repayment issue. Only 5 per cent has been repaid. Today as we talk, there is K35 million which has not been recovered, yet yesterday, the President launched a scheme of K30 million. So, it is like an in and out situation. Therefore, the question is: Why are we failing?

 

Sir, I think we are targeting the wrong groups. I believe that there are more serious and honest people out there in the rural areas like in Milenge, Sikongo, Mwinilunga and Mkushi. I think that if we can capture the people in such places, they will do better with this programme. It is not only that they are more honest, but also that they have fear for Government property unlike in town where people believe fya boma, meaning it is for the Government.

 

So, I think that we, as a Government, need to take a fresh look at this issue and see how it can help us. This fund is noble. It was well intended, but has not worked. Maybe, we have politicised who is supposed to manage this programme. At first, the youths cried about not having collateral. The collateral was almost removed and one only needed a guarantor to get a loan under this fund. However, that is also not working out. So, where are we going wrong? The hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development should believe me when I say that year in and out, the Auditor-General’s report is the same. It is the same issues of no recoveries and no monitoring system.

 

So, how can we fix this scheme under the ministry? With due respect, does the ministry have the capacity and means to manage this scheme? If this kind of money is properly utilised, it can go a long way in fostering development. For example, look at Milenge. All the roads are dilapidated and we do not need more than K10 million to work on our roads. With K10 million, we can construct two or three roads in Milenge, but K35 million is held up in unrecovered money.

 

So, I think there is a need for us, as the Government, to have a paradigm shift. Since 2000, all successive Governments have not succeeded in improving the situation over this fund. So, without apportioning blame, let us bite the bullet and do that which is right. The youths out there must be serious. Money is put into this fund, but how are they responding to it, including yesterday’s –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, your time has lapsed.

 

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, the Youth Empowerment Fund is a really good thing. However, this empowerment has always benefited mostly youths from the cities or urban areas, as noted by your Committee. Most youths in rural areas have literally not benefited. Youths from the rural constituencies such as Mapatizya, Kalomo Central, Dundumwezi and Livingstone have not benefited because this is almost like free money.

 

Mr Speaker, according to your Committee, there is no database. Those who get loans under this fund are not followed up. However, when they were getting this money, those managing the fund were able to know who was to benefit from this money. Today, we are being told by your Committee and the people who appeared before it that it is now so difficult to make follow ups because there is no database. This is questionable because these are people who got public funds, yet we are now saying that we do not know who they are or where they are.

 

Mr Speaker, the other issue is that when you look at our youths, most of them have gone through school up to colleges and universities, but they are still unemployed. As a country, I think we need to review the retirement age. We want people to keep working at the ages of fifty-five, sixty and sixty-five years. If we can get rid of all these people who are fifty-five, sixty and sixty-five years old, we can push in a few more youths in employment since we cannot currently provide them with anything else to do.

 

Mr Speaker, this fund is a good thing, but I think it has been mismanaged. For us to be told that the database is not easy to come up with is unacceptable. I agree with your Committee and I think the people who were disbursing the money were only giving it to the people they knew. They knew that their people would not pay back this money. Maybe, that is what has made things to be so bad.

 

Mr Speaker, I think the people who should take the blame for the poor performance of the Youth Empowerment Fund are the technocrats. These are the people who are actually in charge of this fund. They need to really get serious. This is taxpayers’ money that has almost gone to waste. The youths are crying for the same monies everywhere, especially in rural constituencies, where we have farmers. Most of our youths in rural constituencies are farmers. Certainly, if they could have access to this fund, they could get into milk production because they already have the animals. I agree with what the hon. Member for Bweengwa was suggesting yesterday on the need to have a milk processing centre set up in Monze. It is for such an investment that the youths can easily access this fund.

 

Mr Speaker, the youth in rural areas are organised because they have what we call youth groups registered under the Registrar of Societies. These are people who can easily be traced and empowered. They can go into poultry, goat farming or do anything else. However, in as much as they are farmers, they cannot move their produce, especially in Mapatizya which has bad roads, because the Government decided not to work on them. The youth are the people who need to use these roads to take the produce to markets. If we cannot empower them, let us, at least, work on the road on their behalf.

 

Sir, with these few words, I wish to thank you and your Committee.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Evg. Shabula (Itezhi-Tezhi): Sir, I do not have much to say. Your Committee’s report is good and helpful to us, as decision-makers. Generally, the youths in Itezhi-tezhi have not benefited from most of the empowerment programmes or plans that are implemented by the Government. Perhaps, it is because they are out in the rural area. The people charged with the responsibility of planning for us should include rural areas. There are no training centres, universities or other facilities that would help the youth to understand what they need to do. As a result, they remain where they are.

 

Mr Speaker, in most cases, you find that youths are not included in most plans that are put in place. I do not know which youths this Government plans for. Is it the youths in urban areas? The youths in rural areas are also Zambians who should benefit from this.

 

Sir, I urge this Government to include not only the youth of Itezhi-tezhi rural, but also all the youth in this country in all the plans it is putting in place so that they can all have a share of the cake of Independence.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to comment on the Report of the Committee on Youth, Sport and Child Matters. I would like to thank your Committee for bringing out very important points in the report.

 

Sir, the Government means well and has put good policies in place to ensure that our youths are empowered. In this case, as you can see in the report, from 2000, money has been released so that our youths can create employment and business opportunities for themselves. However, what has been lacking in the process has always been implementation. If you look at the composition of the technical committee at the national level, you will see that there are fourteen important institutions, which I feel if they were a part of a project of this magnitude, the project would not fail because of the number of committees involved.

 

Mr Speaker, perhaps, we could start considering giving tools instead of cash to youths. For example, there are a number of youths today in Zambia at various technical skills colleges and trade schools in the provinces. In my opinion, these are the youths who should be given tools each time they graduate. For instance, if a person is pursuing a course in carpentry, the Government, through the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development, should endeavour to ensure that he/she is given tools instead of cash. All those pursuing courses in areas such as food production and computer science should also be given tools. If we translate money into equipment, we may see a number of achievements being attained by the youth.

 

Sir, another important aspect that I want to talk about is comparative advantage. When this money is floated, youths begin to write proposals for projects they would wish to venture into. However, some write proposals that have literally nothing to do with the areas in which they live. For example, in Bangweulu, there are a number of youths who are good at music and film production. These are the youths who should be given money.

 

Mr Speaker, I think empowerment entails an addition to what the youths are already doing. However, when money is given, it is usually given to youths who are not doing anything. If you walk or drive on the roads in Kalingalinga, you will discover a number of young people who are engaged in metal fabrication. You do not have to wait for the youths to come to the Government and apply for empowerment funds because we have already seen what they can do. These are the youths who must be given money so that their tools, capital and businesses are expanded. There are so many youths along the roads who need to be supported.

 

Sir, I just thought I should add those few words from the people of Bangweulu.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development (Mr Mulenga): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to respond to the many issues which have been raised by your Committee and those who have contributed to the debate on this Motion. With your indulgence, let me also thank the Chairperson for the manner in which he moved this Motion and the seconder of the Motion and other stakeholders who contributed to the debate on it.

 

Sir, the Chairperson referred to the fact that we have 4.8 million youths in this country, but I should correct that. The statistics he referred to are based on the 2016 Census of Population and Housing. However, the census conducted by the labour force in 2018 indicates that there are more than 6 million youths.

 

Mr Speaker, indeed, the Government introduced and suspended the Youth Empowerment Fund. The reason it was suspended was that the rate of default by the beneficiaries was high. The Government was carrying out a survey to ascertain why we had a high rate of default among the beneficiaries and it was discovered, as has been pointed out in the report by the Chairperson, that the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development did not have the required capacity to attend to the recovery of these funds.

 

Sir, the Government decided that many of the projects be implemented by line ministries before the fund is reintroduced. I will give a practical example. The Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is empowering youths with livestock. The Government decided to give this project to line ministries because if my ministry is to deal with livestock, it would not have veterinary doctors to attend to the challenges which the beneficiaries of this empowerment programme would face. Therefore, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock is better placed to attend to these challenges.

 

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock has between US$29 million and US$30 million for empowerment. Of that amount, 30 per cent has been reserved for youth empowerment, which means that US$9 million is going to go to the youth. Translated into kwacha, that is over K70 million that will be given to the youth.

 

Mr Speaker, I urge hon. Members of Parliament to go back to the youths who campaigned on their behalf during the time of campaigns. The way we used them as campaign tools in times of campaigns is the way we should also go back to them and make sure that we sensitise them and pass on information to them that they can write business proposals and submit them to the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock. We, as a ministry, are there to facilitate this process and ensure that the youths benefit from this empowerment fund. Hon. Members should go back to the youths and tell them to write proposals and we will be glad to pass them on to the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock so that youths are empowered with livestock, especially aqua culture, and also participate in the programme called restocking.

 

Mr Speaker, many hon. Members of Parliament who made interventions stated that the flow of information is not adequate. As a ministry, we are contemplating coming up with a radio station which will be used in disseminating information to the youths, especially those who would want to be empowered by the Government.

 

Mr Speaker, the Chairperson indicated that we need to create a data base for beneficiaries. However, what we, as a ministry, have done is to not only create a data base for beneficiaries, but also a data base for all the youths in this country because we want to know which sector has a deficiency and how many youths want to be empowered in certain sectors.

 

Mr Speaker, coming to the issue of empowerment, yesterday, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia indicated that he has set aside K30 million to go towards music artistes. However, that is not the end of the empowerment. This money will be given to music artistes in Zambia to cushion the negative impact which the Covid-19 pandemic has had on them. The artistes should just reorganise themselves, especially those who are youths.

 

Mr Speaker, I should state that many purport to be youths, yet they are not. According to the Laws of Zambia, a youth is somebody who is thirty-five years and below. I have seen that certain people who were among those protesting in the bush were youths when I was in primary school, when I was in secondary and even after I have become a Member of Parliament. I do not know when they are going to graduate.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, one hon. Member of Parliament is saying Hon. Jack Mwiimbu is a youth in the United Party for National Development (UPND). 

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I should tell the youths that this is the time to reorganise themselves and engage my office in attending to the many needs they may have. The Government met the youths who wanted to protest. That is why only seven purporting to be youths protested in the bush. However, the youths who had issues to put across to the Government came to the meeting and raised many issues. The hon. Member of Parliament for Kapiri Mposhi mentioned that when I met the youth, I told them that there are opportunities which they can take up.

 

Mr Speaker, after the meeting with the youths, on the very day, the ministry gave the youths who were in attendance a task to produce 500 face masks. It is a good step which we took and we have seen that many youths are now saying that they are able to pay their school fees. We gave each youth a task to produce 4,000 face masks. The cost of producing 4,000 face masks, according to them, is K19,000, and they are selling 4,000 face masks to the Government for K40,000, which simply means that youths are making K21,000 within ten days. It is an empowerment initiative which the Government has put across. The Government is creating a conducive environment for the youths to conduct business effectively.

 

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I want to thank you for the opportunity granted.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, let me thank the seconder for ably seconding the Motion as well as all the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate on the Motion on the Floor. Finally, I want to thank everybody, including those who have listened.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS

 

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs for the Fourth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 19th June, 2020. 

 

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

 

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

 

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, in accordance with Standing Order No. 157(2), your Committee considered two topical issues, namely the regulation of private security companies vis-à-vis homeland security in Zambia and an update on the shift from political to economic diplomacy in Zambia’s missions abroad, as espoused in Strategy No. 6 of the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP).

 

Sir, one key finding on the regulation of private security companies was that apart from the requirement to register with the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA), there is no legal or policy framework to guide the operations of private security companies. Consequently, these entities contribute very little, if anything, towards homeland security. Your Committee finds this situation unfortunate as it is a lost opportunity to effectively address some of the challenges encountered in the maintenance of peace and security in the country.

 

Mr Speaker, the absence of a legal and/or policy framework has resulted in quite a number of challenges, including the lack of formal training in private security companies, leading to the lack of professionalism and failure to adhere to international standards. In view of these challenges, your Committee strongly recommends that a legal and policy framework for the regulation of private security companies be put in place without further delay.

 

Mr Speaker, your Committee was informed that private security companies in Zambia have not yet developed the capacity to respond to and manage emerging security threats such as terrorism in a timely and professional manner because they are more concerned and mainly limited to the protection of life and property of their clients, who actually pay for that service.

 

Mr Speaker, your Committee observes, with concern, that the little collaboration that takes place between private security companies and State security agencies is on an ad hoc basis. In this regard, all cases of a criminal nature are reported to the police for follow-up and prosecution and security companies usually only act as State witnesses. Therefore, your Committee strongly recommends that a mechanism to ensure formal collaboration between State and private security institutions be established in line with some of the best practices indentified in your Committee’s report, including restricting the ownership of private security companies to Zambians, given the sensitive nature of the security matters that private security companies come across in the execution of duty.

 

Mr Speaker, as for the way forward, your Committee agrees with the stakeholders who contended that there was an urgent need to formulate legislation to regulate the establishment, administration and operations of private security companies. There is also a need for legislation to streamline and formalise their collaboration with State security agencies in Zambia in order to ensure that they operate in public and national interest and thereby, contribute to homeland security.

 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

 

Ms Chisangano: Now, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker, thank you for according me an opportunity to second the Motion on the Floor of the House to adopt the Report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs for the Fourth Session of the Twelfth National Assembly.

 

Mr Speaker, as I second the Motion which the Chairperson has so ably moved, allow me to highlight a few issues contained in the report. I will start with the first topic, which is the regulation of private security companies, vis-à-vis homeland security in Zambia and the capacity of private companies to respond to and manage emerging security threats such as terrorism.

 

Mr Speaker, most private security companies in the country lack standardised training. Some firms train their staff for one day, others two days and others, maybe, for only a week. So, there is no standardised training and as a result, their performance is affected. It is with this in mind that your Committee recommended that the Government puts up a mechanism so that standardised training, co-ordination and regulation are put in place for private companies to perform or operate effectively.

 

Mr Speaker, the second issue which I want to talk about is the level of collaboration between private security companies and State wings. There is mistrust among private security companies themselves. At one time, they had formed a body that looked at the interests of all security companies, which was called Security Employers Authority. However, the association died off as it lacked a legal framework. So, there is no body that looks at the welfare of security companies.

 

Sir, we have seen that most small security companies are even failing to submit their National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) contributions or even adhere to the minimum wage. Therefore, your Committee has recommended that a regulatory mechanism be provided for security companies so that they function well.

 

Mr Speaker, the second topic was an update on the shift from political to economic diplomacy in Zambia’s missions abroad. We have seen strides in trade mediation programme support and the Foreign Direct Investment (FDI). However, your Committee observed that there are few manufacturing companies in the country leaving the country to be a trading economy.

 

Sir, your Committee, further, observed that there was a huge trade imbalance between Zambia and South Africa, which has remained in favour of South Africa. So, your Committee urges the Government to ensure that more effort and resources are committed to attracting FDI. If we do so, the country will see more job creation.

 

Mr Speaker, finally, your Committee also observed that there have been many international agreements that the country has signed, but very few of them have been ratified. This has made the country lose out on some economic benefits that go along with these international agreements. So, your Committee recommends that the Government should ratify the pending agreements.

 

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I beg to second.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

I will allow three hon. Members to debate this report, namely the hon. Member for Nalikwanda, the hon. Member for Liuwa and thirdly, the hon. Member for Lumezi. Thereafter, I will invite the hon. Minister of Defence to respond before winding up debate on this particular report and Motion.

 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, thank you so much for the opportunity to debate this very important report. I would like to thank the mover of this report, the hon. Member for Kanchibiya, and the entire Committee.

 

Mr Speaker, this report should make all of us rethink the critical issue of homeland security, which has raised very pertinent issues to which we should apply our minds, as citizens of this country.

 

Mr Speaker, I think that it is important, first of all, to place the report in its context, and the context being the population of our nation. In 1964, the population of Zambia was 3.5 million people and as of yesterday, according to the United Nations (UN) projections, the population was about 18.8 million people. By 2030, our population will be about 50 million people and by the end of the century, Zambia’s population will be about 100 million people. Now, the challenge here is that there will remain a big gap in the police population ratio, namely fewer policemen per population. This is the challenge. This makes this particular topic on the private security industry a very important sector to focus on and seriously reflect on why it is important for the country to manage it and see how it can expand and be efficient; and see how it can play its role in the security issues of our nation.

 

Not only that, Mr Speaker, the nature of security issues in the country has become very complex over the years. For example, we now see very serious security issues such as child trafficking, drug trafficking, gender-based violence (GBV) and money laundering. We have just come out of gassing issues. These are issues which make our homeland security very important. Let us see how best we can protect ourselves and ensure that there is security in our nation. We also have issues of Karavinas. Increasingly, we are finding that even elderly people in villages have their lives being threatened. These are very serious issues and this means that we must pay attention to how best we can ensure that the private security industry is actually living up to its expectations, namely providing homeland security.

 

Mr Speaker, not only the established private security firms, which employ security guards are important, but even vigilante community policing. These are very important aspects to look at, especially in the villages and communities in our residential and urban areas.

 

Sir, this means that we need to pay attention to this private sector security system. I agree with the report that standardisation of the security system in the private sector must be looked at. There must be very close supervision of what they are doing. It is very important to look at the training being offered and the collaboration, including the legal and policy framework. I think we need to do that. These are issues we have not paid serious attention to over the years and we have to do that now. We should go beyond and look at who is involved in this.

 

Sir, I agree with the report when it says that this is a sector we must reserve for Zambians. We should not allow foreigners to establish private security firms here because that is a great risk to our country. It is not only about private security industry in the home gardening, but even electronic surveillance security systems.

 

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Member, your time has lapsed.

 

I am advised that the hon. Member for Lumezi did not indicate. So, the last person to debate will be the hon. Member for Liuwa.

 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to make some remarks on this report. First of all, I want to congratulate your Committee led by Hon. Dr Malama and his colleagues on choosing a topic that, I think, is very important. Truly speaking, there has been growth of private security arrangements in the country. For the first time, a Committee of Parliament has recognised this to be an important topic that requires to be brought to the attention of Parliament and, through it, the rest of the country. Well done to your Committee.

 

Mr Speaker, I also want to congratulate your Committee on the findings that it made, as it deliberated upon this report. These are issues of the absence of a legislative framework on who can set up a security firm and also of standards and training for security officers. I think all these are very important issues. It is my hope that the Ministry of Home Affairs and other ministries, which are concerned about security in the country, have taken note of this and that they will use this as a practical step forward in terms of enacting legislation and putting up other arrangements in place so that this sector is properly regulated and administered.

 

Mr Speaker, to some extent, I would say that this report is a partial analysis in the sense that it just focuses on the private security. A more comprehensive approach would be to look at total security in the country and the role that the private sector has in it. In particular, the Government needs to be a pace setter in the security arrangements in the country. These private security firms, to some extent, are looking at what is happening within the Government security and they use that to set their own standards of practices. I must say that what we are seeing is not very encouraging. Maybe, this is why some of these lapses that we are seeing are taking place.

 

Sir, for example, there is a complaint over the uniforms of some of the security firms, but what about those of the Zambia Police Service? Are our officers properly uniformed? Is that something that gives us pride? What about the equipment?

 

Mr Speaker, there is also an issue of behaviour which needs to be looked at seriously. The behaviour of the Zambia Police Service today is something that is very unacceptable. The police can no longer say it is friends with society. The police service has become an enemy of society. I can take the example of what happened in Sesheke almost two years ago, when armed police officers wearing combat uniforms, carrying machine guns mounted on Toyota Land cruisers shot at innocent villages. This was there for everyone to see on social media. You can ask yourself a question: Is this apartheid in South Africa or is this happening in Zambia? Is this a civil war or is this Zambia? These are things that are making the security firms also lose discipline. If our own police service funded by Zambians is misbehaving; killing people and no inquiries are instituted, how can private security firms behave?

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister of Defence (Mr Chama): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to briefly react to the Report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs ably presented by the Chairperson, as usual, Hon. Dr Malama, and ably seconded.

 

Mr Speaker, I will be very brief. The report has been very brief, as presented by the Chairperson and most of the issues that have been highlighted in the report were to do with private security companies. There are many security companies operating in Zambia. With the increase in the number of private security companies, the safety of assets and the property of the private and some parastatal companies has been enhanced. Therefore, private security companies have been complementing the Zambia Police Service in preventing crime, vandalism and damage to property. The participation of the private security companies in the provision of security services has enhanced the safety of property, especially belonging to the private sector. This is important for the sustenance of the socio-economic development of our beloved country.

 

Mr Speaker, currently, there is no legal policy framework, as correctly observed by your Committee, to guide the operations of the private security companies in the country. However, the Government is in the process of developing the legal policy framework to guide the operations of security companies.

 

Sir, may I just highlight some of the policy objectives in this legal framework and the policy that the Government is working on as follows:

 

1. to license the private security companies;'
2. registration of the security guards, who are usually employed by the private security companies;
3. training of the licensed personnel in relation to private security services;
4. establishment of criteria for the management of private security companies and also come up with standards thereof; and
5. to also come up with the code of conduct of private security companies and the security guards.

 

Mr Speaker, allow me to just react to some of the debates, especially the last debater who insinuated that the police were shooting at villagers using machine guns mounted on Land cruisers although there were no reports of any such incidents. Everyone knows what a gun and a bullet can do to a human body. Therefore, if, indeed, the police were shooting all over the place, we could have received reports of deaths of the villagers.

 

Sir, I want to appeal to our elderly hon. Members, especially those who have been in the Government before, to not peddle innuendos in order to malign the police service or the security agencies of our country. If the word ‘lies’ was not unparliamentarily, I would have used it.

 

Mr Speaker: It is not parliamentary. So, do not use it.

 

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, I will not use it. So, there were no such things that the police were either in Liuwa in particular or the Western Province in general shooting at the villagers indiscriminately. It is not true. So, let us not peddle untruths to the Zambians in order to malign our security agencies. 

 

Mr Speaker, I just want to thank the Chairperson of your Committee once more and those who debated. I know that the report did not touch on economic diplomacy, but I want to assure the seconder that ratification of treaties that this Government has signed is work in progress. Some of the treaties have been ratified while others are pending scrutiny by the Office of the Attorney-General, as a requirement of our laws, before they are ratified by the Government.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the hon. Minister of Defence for the statement given. I also thank those who have debated, Hon. Prof Lungwangwa, Hon. Dr Musokotwane and the able Vice-Chairperson for the statement.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Question put and agreed to. 

 

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

The Vice- President (Ms Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

The House adjourned at 1155 hours until 1430 on Tuesday, 30^th June, 2020.

 

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