DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 30th November, 2012 

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

MINISTRY OF CHIEFS AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS INTERACTIVE MEETING WITH HON. MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs will hold a half day interactive meeting with hon. Members of Parliament to share a concept paper on the vision of the ministry. The interaction is scheduled to be held on Thursday, 6th December, 2012, commencing from 0930 hours to 1230 hours in the Amphitheatre, Parliament Buildings. Attending the meeting is on a voluntary basis.

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: I, therefore, urge all hon. Members to attend this very important meeting.

I thank you.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to acquaint the House with some of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 4th December, 2012, the Business of the House will commence with questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then the House will consider the Second Reading Stage of the following Bills:

(a)The Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2012;

(b)The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2012;

(c)The Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2012; and

(d)The Zambia Development Agency (Amendment) Bill, 2012.

Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2013 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the following heads:

(a)Vote 51 – Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication; and

(b)Vote 77 – Ministry of Defence.

On Wednesday, 5th December, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members Motions, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2013 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure to consider the following heads:

(a)Vote 89 – Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock; and

(b)Vote 88, 90 - 98 – Office of the President – Provinces.

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 6th December, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2013 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will continue to consider Votes 88, 90 - 98 – Office of the President – Provinces.

Sir, on Friday, 7th December, 2012, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time. Possibly, this will be the last of the season for Hon. Muntanga. That should be regrettable. 

Laughter 

The Vice-President: This will be followed by questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2013 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will continue to consider Votes 88, 90 - 98 – Office of the President – Provinces.

Sir, the House will then deal with any business that may remain outstanding.

Thank you, Sir.

_____________

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, you will recall that early in the week, the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, Mr Muntanga, raised a point of order in relation to the allocation of funds to the First Lady. In my ruling, I indicated that the subject had been discussed extensively. However, for the avoidance of doubt, I did direct that His Honour the Vice-President should issue a statement to clarify the matter. I have been informed that His Honour the Vice-President is ready, this morning, to issue a statement of clarification. If, at the end of the statement, there will still be some lingering questions or doubts about the matter, they may be further clarified during the Vice-President’s Question Time which will ensue immediately thereafter.

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S STATEMENT

OFFICE OF THE FIRST LADY’S VOTE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, it is very difficult to say anything new or exciting on this subject, but I have managed to track down the expenditures that were made on the First Lady’s behalf in 2010 and 2011 so that hon. Members can see how all that has happened is that, more or less, a standard sum of money has migrated from under a blanket into the open.

Sir, under Vote 08/01, Programme 3001, Activity 008 – Public Affairs and Summit Meetings – K61,286,400,000, is where the activities for the First Lady used to fall those days. We had a different First Lady, of course, those days. In 2010, the Government spent a total of K2.4 billion …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Vice-President: … while in 2011, it spent a total of K1.4 billion. Of course, there were two different governments in-charge at two different periods in 2011. The estimate, therefore, of K1.5 billion in round-off terms seems to be very reasonable. All that has happened is that instead of that money being included in a larger package, it has been taken out and put by itself so that hon. Members can see any supplementary estimates and savings. So, it is a move towards transparency. In any case, the matter has been passed. So, I am not sure what the hon. Member’s point of order was all about.

So, Sir, if the hon. Member wants further clarification, I will read a painfully lengthy statement though I do not think it is necessary. I am sure he knows exactly what is going on. If he is going to make noise about it – I hesitate to say this – then I think he will show a clear sign of insincerity regarding his actions

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: We now proceed to the His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time.

Hon. Opposition Members: No.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, when an hon. Minister makes a ministerial statement to the House to clarify an issue, hon. Members are given a chance to raise points of clarification. Is it, therefore, in order to ignore that fact and allow the statement that has just been delivered to the House to pass without hon. Members raising points of clarification?  I need your serious clarification, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I will exercise my discretion and allow the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, in particular, who has raised the point of order to seek clarification.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is a new way of exercising your discretion. It now seems that when I bring an issue to Parliament, I will not be supported by colleagues. The issues which I bring to this House deserve the support of other hon. Members because they are not personal ones.  However, I would like the Vice-President to state whether by including a Vote for an office that does not exist entails that it is similar to an allocation we have been having under Vote 08/01 over the years.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we went through this on the day that we passed this particular item.  We have put the item in the Budget so that the expenditure can clearly be seen. It is not there to create a constitutional office or ‘uncreate’ a constitutional office. We are also not arguing that the First Lady has a constitutional office. All over the world, First Ladies and First Gentlemen have offices. For example, when I was in Perth, in Australia, in October last year, the First Locals, as they call them in Australia, or the First Gentleman - the husband of the Prime Minister - took my wife and others around and showed them, at government expense, the various sites and scenes of Western Australia. So, this happens everywhere. We are not creating an unconstitutional position. That point should be made very clear. If Hon. Muntanga wants more clarity, he has to wait until 2016.

I thank you, Sir.

____________

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to make a follow up pertaining to a very pertinent issue that has been raised by Hon. Muntanga. The issue that has also been raised by hon. Members of Parliament and the members of the public, in particular, arises from the powers of the President vide Article 44 of the Constitution of Zambia pertaining to the constitution of Government departments and ministries.

Mr Speaker, we have to note that for the Government to provide money for any office or department or ministry of the Republic, that particular office must have been established by the Republican President. The question that begs an answer, and which all of us would like to hear from His Honour the Vice-President, is whether that Government has now established an Office of the First Lady. If that has not been done, why are we allocating money to a non-existant office? That is the issue. If they want to establish it, we will have no problem, but they must come out clearly whether they have established an Office of the First Lady or not.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it has now become clearer to me as to why our courts are clogged up with lawyers who have very detailed and elaborate arguments. The office is Cabinet Office. The activity supports the First Lady’s activities as is done in every other country in the world and possibly the solar system.

Hon. Opposition Members: No.

The Vice-President: Possibly the whole solar system. 

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The Vice-President:  That is all I understand. If hon. Members on the other side wish to change the way things should be done, they can have a crack in 2016. However, I know that they will fail.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, with the destruction …

Hon. Opposition Members left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, with the destruction of 99,000 bags of maize in Kalomo and the rampant smuggling of mealie-meal on the Copperbelt Province into the Democratic Republic of Congo, can His Honour the Vice-President state whether Zambia will not experience any food shortages.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, despite the horrible confusion that was left behind by the questioner’s Government last year, we are very confident that we have secured sufficient food. The Government’s strategic intervention is to ensure that there is no food shortage in Zambia this current marketing season.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, the Former President of Zambia, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda’s accommodation bills have gobbled almost K1 billion. This is definitely high for this country. Can I get a comment from His Honour the Vice-President if Mr Banda is entitled to such type of accommodation.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think the answer to that, I would guess, is yes. He is entitled, but that is because the law is not particularly clear on entitlements of Former Presidents.  I shall initiate an inquiry into it because it seems a repetition of wasting huge amounts of public funding.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, the Marriage Act, which does not seem to be in tandem with other laws, such as the Penal Code and the Anti-Gender Based Violence Act, for example, on one hand, allows young people who just attain puberty to be married off under customary law while, on the other, the Penal Code and the Anti-Gender Based Violence Act do not allow anyone below the age of sixteen to have sex or be married. What is the Government doing in trying to harmonise these laws?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it so happens that this issue has arisen in the Advisory Committee on the Prerogative of Mercy, which I chair, and which advises the President on matters like the clash between Customary and English Law, as enshrined in this country’s laws, and in fact, other definitions. This is a very old law.  As the questioner said, at as young as twelve and upon attainment of puberty, a girl can be married. On campaign trails, especially in remote areas, all of us will find girls no more than thirteen carrying babies. At the same time, the codified law seems to be very strict against the so called-defilement in all sorts of circumstances. For example, there is a case that we were considering of a young boy aged nineteen who was playing, in traditional terms, with a fifteen-year old girl and was sentenced to more than ten years in a maximum security jail, and that seems such a clash with customary values that some sort of resolution has to be worked out. That is our feeling.

Mr Chairperson, it is a very difficult question because we have other laws that define adulthood as eighteen. For example, you cannot vote until you are eighteen, but you can get married under English law when you are sixteen and under customary law when you are thirteen. These are some of the problems that we have to deal with in our transition from a traditional to modern society. 

I thank you Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, the funding of the First Lady’s office has cheered the majority of Zambians.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Chisala: However, a few have complained. Will the Government reverse this allocation in order to please the minority who have complained?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we are not going to reverse the publication of how much money we are spending on the First Lady’s Office. It is not even for the First Lady. She does not even get K1, personally, from this Vote. In fact, she was fired by the Ministry of Health the minute her husband ascended to the Presidency of the country as she became First Lady, just as my wife was fired by the United Nations for very much the same reason. So, these are some of the things that ought to be in the open so that people can see. We believe in that and that is why I was mentioning 2016 as a good time to campaign on this issue. It will be the earliest if we are prepared to change it and only assuming that we are beaten, which is a very unsound assumption.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, I seem to have an opportunity because there are a few people on the left.

Laughter

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, the PF Government has done well with regard to the plight of chiefs. The increment in salaries and other perks, and renovation of palaces are very commendable. However, my worry is that headmen, who are the custodians of the people, have been left out. We all know that headmen in the villages are very important. Why have headmen not been considered even for just a simple allowance? Does the Government intend to do that in the future?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is a suggestion that should be analysed, if it has not already been. It is difficult to open a can of worms like that. The position of headman has controversies in two-thirds of the nominal chieftaincies in the country. Controversy over headmanship is something we do not want to start or aggravate. Nonetheless, I will take up what I consider very sound advice from her, which was very level-headedly put as well.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, last year, before the MMD left office, K11.5 billion was paid to Minestone to put a 65km tarmac road from Landless Corner to Mumbwa. That tarmac has not been built and K11.5 billion is sitting in the accounts of Minestone and earning interest. Is the abuse of taxpayers’ money not a corrupt activity? 

The Vice President: Mr Speaker, I just note, in passing, that the contract was awarded by our predecessors in the days when we had nothing to do with it. However, that is a comment in passing. The substantive answer has to be that, as far as I am aware, that matter is in court. As for which parts are in court and which ones are not, if the hon. Rev. Lieutenant-General, Chanda Chiimba’s friend had …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … asked me in my office, fifteen minutes ago, I would have had the answer. Unfortunately, he did not do that, and I cannot answer from my dreams.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr B. Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, recently, on the Copperbelt, there was a shortage of mealie-meal and an increase in prices. What is the Government doing to compel the millers to increase production? 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, as I explained last week, the understanding with the millers was that, since we are pulling the Food Reserve Agency out of its monopoly role in maize marketing and taking it back to being a strategic reserve agency, they would start by locating their own supplies of maize on the free market to last until the end of December. They, unfortunately, thought we were joking, or pretended to think so, and basically closed the tap on the mealie-meal supply. This has obliged us to come in a month early. This coming week, I believe, we are opening the gates of the FRA and, in a measured way, we will release maize. However, the fact that we are going to release it has already resulted in the regularisation of the situation. Prices, I understand, are down below K60,000 for a bag of breakfast meal currently.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, the continued blacklisting of Zambian-registered planes by the International Air Transport Association (IATA) is reflecting very badly on our aviation industry. Is the Government doing anything to rectify the situation, especially in the face of the forthcoming United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) Conference?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, one of the first things this Government did when it was elected was to get a taskforce together centred on the civil aviation authorities and the ministry responsible for communication and transport. We communicated with Brussels, the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and all other relevant organisations. An audit, which is, hopefully, the final one that will normalise the situation, is due in December, after which this ban should be lifted. It is a very complicated matter that is not about our being banned because we are unsafe. There are many issues involved. The cost to us is also not that we cannot have Zambian airlines flying to Europe. It is the fact that many insurers will not insure tourists visiting Zambia against the background of the blacklist. That has led to many cancellations of flights of planes carrying American tourists, for example, and those from other parts of the world. This is an important issue and one that we decided to attend to as soon as we got into power. Our efforts seem to be bearing fruit, at long last. That is the situation as I understand it, and I see my hon. Minister nodding his head. Therefore, we are okay.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, recently, there have been a pronouncement that HIV infection rates have dropped. Can this be attributed to a change in lifestyle or, maybe, improvement in living standards of Zambians? May I have a comment from the Vice-President.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think that the drop in infection rates can be attributed to a number of possible factors that reflect well on Zambia and its Government. Health services have been enhanced by our greatly-increased funding to the sector as well as our increased level of passion to eradicate the disease. It can also be attributed to health education and the fact that the anti-retroviral drugs that are now being taken by over 400,000 people in Zambia tend to reduce the probability of spreading the infection by the person taking the drugs to those who are negative. This is because the chances of passing the infection are very low while one is on medication. That is the major factor that has brought down the rate of infections. We intend to amplify this under a programme currently nick-named ‘B-Plus’ to try and eliminate the virus completely.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chungu (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, so many pronouncements have been made on job creation in this country. With the low investment levels that we have in this country, what is the Government doing to attract investors to help cut the unemployment levels among our youths?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, what is important is not simply to attract investment, but to attract investment which results in job creation. The questioner will recall, if he was in the House, that the hon. Minister of Finance, in his Budget Speech, was very emphatic on the fact that tax breaks and other incentives would not be given to people on the basis of their merely promising to create jobs, but audited results of jobs created. I was in Chingola and Chililabombwe, the other day, and there were only four people controlling a concentrator and the smelting process using four computers. It was like they were playing a computer game. This is in place of 100 or 200 people who would have been there to do that job twenty years ago. Therefore, it is possible to have heavy levels of investment without creating jobs.  They have invested over US$ 100,000 on machinery instead of creating jobs. 

Sir, we want to skew the tax structures towards investment that can create jobs. That is the important step. We also need to increase Zambian indigenous or domestic levels of investment by lowering interest rates. There are many other factors. However, these are the key ones. Currently, Zambians cannot invest because we cannot get the money at affordable rates.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, is Zambia ready to host the Zone Six Games?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, yes, it is ready.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ngo’nga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, cotton is a very important cash crop in Zambia, and fits very well into the Government’s programme on food security. Is there anything that the Government has done, or is doing, to help our small-scale farmers who suffered major losses because of low international cotton prices?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we do not want to get into a situation in which we fight the market. What seems to be a more intelligent approach, as we have always said, is diversification. In the Eastern Province, there is a tradition of farmers growing three or four crops despite the subsidies on maize and the distortion of the maize marketing and input supply system. They grow three or four crops, such as tobacco, which is the first to be harvested, maize, cotton and groundnuts. They can even plant up to five or six crops. That is the way you can play one market against the other. Last year was unfortunate because people thought, based on the 2011 levels of the cotton prices, that they would get the same high or even higher prices this year, but that was not the case. Agricultural markets tend to work opposite to that thinking. If you wait for the price to be high, it will be too late to plant in order to get that high price. 

Mr Chairperson, meanwhile, burley tobacco produced in the Eastern Province, which had not been able to sell in 2011 because of the surplus produced by Malawi, and which Malawi did not sell, will sell well this year.  I advise farmers not to put all their eggs in one basket, but to make sure that one crop can be played against the other. Continue growing cotton because this is the wrong time to stop. The right time to plant it is when the price is low, and the right time to stop planting or to reduce planting is when the price is high. I have been a farmer and I made US$ I million on that basis alone.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, Shiwang’andu Hydro-Power Station has been completed. Why has the Government not commissioned it?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think that the power station and the special things that go with it, such as the fibre-optic Internet connectivity to the villages, will be commissioned next Wednesday, 5th December, 2012. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Sichula (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, what is the Government going to do about the floods in Lusaka, especially that we are anticipating more rains this year?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Lusaka City Council, in which I am a councillor, will continue to struggle with inadequate resources. With the help of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), which has access to Zambia National Service to do what we can. We will continue to struggle until the Millennium Challenge money comes.  This will put a serious dent in the floods’ capacity to cause damage in Zambia. 

Mr Chairperson, Cairo Road used to be half a road and half a river. I remember going to my father’s office on Cairo Road wading in waist-deep water. I would even swim, sometimes, because of the flat land and impervious stone, which retain water. So, somebody had to dynamite the Suez Canal, as it was called, down the middle of Cairo Road to drain it. There are other areas of Lusaka such as Kanyama and Kamwala which need the similar dynamite treatment. That requires money. $300 million worth of treatment is what we need and this is how much the Americans have given us. It will not be spent this year, but in the next two years.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr H. Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what the current levels of reserves in US Dollars are, as compared to what was left by our colleagues, the MMD, in September, 2011.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it sounds like that is a planted question, …

Laughter

The Vice-President: ... but nobody planted me with the answer.

Laughter

The Vice-President: However, what I can tell you is that it has gone from US$ 2.3 billion to US$3.3 billion. It has increased by US$1 billion.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, we have had quite a lot of problems as regards the shortage of fuel in the country and this has continued. May I know when we are going to see the opening of the storage facilities in provincial headquarters that were talked about. When do we see the Lusaka one being commissioned?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, well, at the risk of giving a Government assurance, let me say that, in the next two or three months, that programme should be completed.

Sir, there are all kinds of problems with fuel supply in Zambia and one of them being the changanya effect where, when you go to a town, you will find that there is only one petrol station and the staff of that petrol station have removed the diesel or petrol and taken it to the shanty town and are directing everybody there to buy at double the price irrespective of what the supply situation is. So, these are some of the issues that I suggest have to be ironed out by our competitive market.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chabala (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, in the recent past, we have seen changes in the way the media operates. May I know whether the Government has any plans to beam parliamentary business of the House or the Vice-President’s Question Time live on television.

The Vice-President: Transmitting parliamentary business via the radio FM system has been a success. I think, Mr Speaker, it is not for the Government or Executive or so much as for Parliament itself through the Modernisation and Reforms Committee. I think we are doing quite well. The extension of the television coverage of the Vice-President’s Question Time, every week, is giving people a good sense of the amount of intelligence and energy in this Chamber, and the fact that the PF Government, sorry for that, is in command.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Mumba.

Mr Mumba (Mambilima):Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, it was sad to read in the newspaper’s yesterday and today about a Mr Silwiza, a Ward Councillor of Northmead, who incurred about K10 million on drinks when he was in Ethiopia. What measures is the Government putting in place to recover the said amount from the involved councilor?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, since he falls in my constituency, …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … it has to be my responsibility to make sure that he pays. We will have to raise the money to repay the Addis Ababa City Council initially, and then he will pay, but that is only when he answers my phone call. At the moment, he is clearly too frightened to answer my phone calls. So, next week, I may be able to answer the question.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

__________{mospagebreak}

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE MEDICAL LEVY (Repeal) BILL, 2012

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Sir, the Bill before the House is principally seeking to abolish the Medical Levy which is currently charged at the rate of 1 per cent on all interest earned on Savings Accounts, Deposit Accounts, Government Bonds, Treasury Bills and all other similar financial instruments.

Mr Speaker, the objective for introducing the Medical Levy was to generate resources that were required to fill a financing gap in the Budget, particularly for the Ministry of Health programmes. The introduction of the Medical Levy, while assisting and fulfilling the gap in the Budget, on the other hand, discourages persons and companies from saving. This is due to the fact that in addition to Medical Levy, a Withholding Tax of 15 per cent is further charged on interest earned. This represents multiple succession of interest income and is a disincentive to saving.

Sir, savings are an important component of national development. Without savings, it would be very difficult to mobilise sufficient resources in the economy for investment by the private sector.

Mr Speaker, in order to encourage savings and investment, I have proposed the removal of the Medical Levy. 

Sir, this Bill is straightforward and I commend it to the House.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: Order!

I note that the Chairperson of the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour is not in the House. However, this report has been tabled before the House. I, therefore, allow the general debate to ensue.

Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I happen to be the Acting Chairperson of the Committee.

Mr Speaker: Please, proceed. I should have taken note of that earlier on.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, your Committee considered the Medical Levy (Repeal) Bill, 2012, referred to it on 14th November, 2012.

Sir, this Bill seeks to remove the multiple taxation of interest earned on Savings Accounts, Deposit Accounts, Treasury Bills, Government Bonds or other similar financial instruments, thereby provide an incentive to persons and partnerships to have savings, invest in Treasury Bills, Government Bonds or other similar financial instruments.

Mr Speaker, let me state from, the outset, that the Committee supports the Bill and commends the Government for bringing it to the House for enactment.

Sir, having considered the submissions by various stakeholders …

Mr Mwaliteta: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise this very important point of order.

Sir, I am aware that my colleagues in the Opposition are our partners in development and governance of this country. I also know that they also represent the people of Zambia. 

Mr Speaker, I have with me an edition of The Post newspaper for Friday, 30th November, 2012 with the following headline:

“United Party for National Development (UPND) charges its MP for working with PF”

It further reads:

“According to a letter authored by UPND National Secretary, Winston Chibwe, dated July 18th 2012, Siamunene had been accused of associating with some senior PF Government officials like Finance Deputy Minister, Miles Sampa, contrary to the interests of the UPND. The letter reads thus: GROSS MISCONDUCT: YOURSELF. Reference is made to my minute dated 5th June, 2012 in which I leveled charges against you with instructions that you respond within seven (7) days from that date.”

Mr Speaker, is the UPND in order to start harassing and intimidating its hon. Members of Parliament? In fact it is not only one hon. Member of Parliament, but several of them have been harassed and intimidated for trying to get development into their constituencies through working with this Government. Are they in order? I need your serious ruling over this matter so that our colleagues can freely associate with us. At the moment, each time they want to talk to one of us, they have to call you aside and talk by the corner …

Laughter

Mr Mwaliteta: Are they in order, Sir? And I would like to lay the paper on the Table for evidence’ sake. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaliteta laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that the question of discipline of members of particular political parties is an internal matter. 

Hon. Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: The House, particularly my Office, only comes into play where it impinges on the proceedings of this House.

Hon. Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: From the point of order, there is no evidence suggesting that the action taken by this particular political party has interfered with the proceedings of the House.

Hon. Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: To that extent, I will leave this within the ambit of the relevant party. That is my ruling.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, let me state that your Committee supports the Bill and commends the Government for bringing it to the House for enactment.

Mr Speaker, having considered the submissions by various stakeholders, your Committee observes that repealing the Medical Levy Act No. 6 of 2003 will encourage people to develop the culture of saving. Further, the revenue collected from this levy was inconsequential as it was minimal and merely served to create an inconvenience to the tax collection system. Your Committee, therefore, urges the House to pass the Medical Levy (Repeal) Bill (N.A.B 11/2012). 

Mr Speaker, I wish to conclude by thanking all the witnesses that appeared before your Committee for their valuable input towards the findings of the Committee. I also wish to thank you for affording your Committee an opportunity to consider the Bill.

Lastly, but not the least, I wish to place on record your Committee’s gratitude to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services rendered to your Committee.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour for supporting the Bill.

I thank you, Sir. 

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 5th December, 2012.

THE MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT (Amendment) BILL, 2012

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the Bill before this House is principally seeking to amend the Mines and Minerals Development Act so as to permit the hon. Minister responsible for mines to approve the transfer of a mining right of interest upon the production of a valid tax clearance certificate by the mining rights holder.

Mr Speaker, the intention of this measure is to make it mandatory to require a tax clearance certificate to be issued by the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) before the transfer of a mining right of interest can be granted. This will enhance tax compliance on property transfer of mining rights. 

Mr Speaker, the requirement to produce a valid tax clearance is standard practice where property is being transferred. The purpose of a tax clearance certificate is to ensure that the business must be cleared by the ZRA to receive payments only if they are tax complaint. In tandem with the proposal to introduce property transfer tax on the transfer of mining rights, it is necessary that where a mining right is being transferred, the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development demands for a valid tax clearance certificate before one completes the transfer of a mining right. This Bill is straightforward and I commend it to the House.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, your Committee considered the Mines and Minerals (Amendment) Bill (N.A.B 11/2012) referred to it on 14th November, 2012. The objects of the Bill are to:

    (a)    empower the minister to approve the transfer assignment, encumbrance or other dealings in a mining right upon the production of a valid tax clearance certificate by the mining tax holder.

    (b)    to provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Mr Speaker, let me state from, the outset, that your Committee supports the Bill and commends the Government for bringing it to the House. Having considered the submission by various stakeholders on the Bill, your Committee notes that this amendment is consequential to the changes proposed in the Property Transfer Tax (amendment) Bill No. 13 of 2012, which is meant to encourage serious developers in the mining sector and curb speculation. 

  In this regard, your Committee, therefore, recommends that the House passes the Bill in order to give efficacy to the amendments to the Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill, No. 13 of 2012. 

Sir, in conclusion, let me thank all the witnesses that appeared before your Committee for their valuable input in the findings of the Committee. I also wish to thank you for affording your Committee an opportunity to consider the Bill. Thanks also go the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services rendered to your Committee.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour for their dutifulness and for supporting the Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committee to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 5th December, 2012.

THE PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2012

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read the second time.

Sir, the Bill before this House is principally seeking to amend the Property Transfer Act so as to introduce Property Transfer Tax on the transfer of mining rights and provide for the basis for determining the value for a mining right at the time of its transfer. Specifically, the Bill seeks to introduce Property Transfer Tax at 10 per cent on the transfer, assignment, encumbrance or other dealing in a mining right or interest. Currently, mining rights are being transferred between businesses, but the gains therefrom, go untaxed. 

Sir, there is clearly a need to capture income gained from transfer of mining rights just like any other income which has a source in Zambia. What is happening at the moment is that people are obtaining mining licences or rights and disposing of them at very high prices. The motive is to earn income. The law requires that any person who earns an income in Zambia should pay applicable tax. However, it has not been easy to capture these individuals’ income through Pay As You Earn (PAYE). Therefore, Property Transfer Tax is an appropriate methodology or mechanism through which to tax gains from transfer of mining rights or interests. 

Mr Speaker, the Bill is straightforward and I commend it to this House.

Sir, I beg to move. 

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, your Committee considered the Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill, No. 13 of 2012, referred to it on 14th November, 2012. The objectives of the Bill are to:

(a)introduce Property Transfer Tax at 10 per cent on the transfer assignment encumbrance or other dealing in a mining right or interest;

(b)to provide for the basis of determining the value of the mining right at the time of its transfer, assignment, encumbrance or other dealing in a mining right or  interest;

(c)revise the conditions for the transfer of a mining right or interest by the Minister responsible for mines; and

(d)provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
Mr Speaker, let me begin by stating that your Committee supports the Bill and commends the Government for bringing it to the House. It is the view of our Committee that this law will assist to curb speculation on mining rights in the mining sector and increase the revenue base of the treasury. 

Sir, in supporting the Bill, your Committee wishes to make the following observations and recommendations:

(a)your Committee observed that it is apparent that the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development have not undertaken adequate research with particular regard to best practices in countries undertaking…

Mr D. Mwila: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise a procedural point of order. You appointed the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour on 26th September, 2012. I recall the hon. Minister of Finance tabled the Bills before this House so that they are considered by the Committee. You directed that the Committee should sit and look at the Medical Levy (Repeal) Bill and the Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill. 

Mr Speaker, the Committee Members sat for more than five days and they were paid. Roughly, Parliament spent more than K100 million just to enable them debate these Bills. Hon. Kakoma, Member for Zambezi West, Hon. Hamududu, Member for Bweengwa, Hon. Mutati, Member for Lunte and Hon. L. Zimba, Member for Kapiri-Mposhi are members of the Committee for Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour  Committee, but  are not in the House when the reports are being presented. Are these hon. Members in order to be out of the House when the Committee Chairperson is presenting the report?

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling on this matter.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Zambezi West is outside the jurisdiction and is executing Parliamentary duties. That is as far as I can go in terms of knowing the reason of the absences of these particular members. As for the rest, I am actually at a loss as to why they are not present in this House. I would not want to speculate why they are absent. That is my ruling. The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mwango: Sir, your Committee observes that it is apparent that both the ministries of Finance, and Mines, Energy and Water Development have not undertaken adequate research on best practices in countries undertaking serious mining activities.

Mr Speaker, to avoid any hurdles during the implementation stage, your Committee recommends that the two ministries undertake comprehensive studies aimed at understanding the implementation process of similar legislation in other jurisdictions that undertake serious mining activities.

Sir, your Committee notes that the definition of a holding company in the Bill is not comprehensive. It, therefore, recommends that the Government considers revising the definition of a holding company to encompass special voting rights that may have the effect of giving control of the decision-making process to some directors or members. Further, the definition should provide for the source of voting rights, whether this be shareholder agreements or otherwise. There is also a need for the definition to expressly provide that the reckoning of the voting rights be based on the company-issued securities, not only on the basis of shares.

Mr Speaker, your Committee observes that the Bill does not provide for the criterion to be used by the Commissioner-General in determining the value of the mining right or interest. In this regard, your Committee strongly recommends that, in order to reduce arbitrariness and promote transparency, an objective criterion for assessing the value of the mining right or interest for the purpose of determining the property transferred tax payable should be clearly outlined in the regulations. Further, the law should provide for a requirement that the assessing authority publishes the mode of assessment of the value of the mining right or interest.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by thanking all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwango: … for their valuable input into the findings of the Committee. I also wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording your Committee the opportunity to consider the Bill. Let me also thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services rendered to the Committee.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Ntundu entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. PF Member: Hon. Ntundu.

Laughter

Mr Chikwanda: … I wish to indicate that I have taken note of the solid observations and recommendations of the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour. I also wish to take this opportunity to thank the Committee for the recommendations and support of the Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee, on Wednesday, 5th December, 2012.

________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

VOTE 85 – (Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection-K115,602,474,209)

(Consideration resumed)

The Deputy Minister of North-Western Province (Mr Masumba): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to continue from where I ended,  although it is a bit sad that the Opposition hon. Members have decided to run away because they know that I am presenting my maiden speech.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: Mr Chairperson, our predecessors, the former Government called the Mwadya Mweka Daddy (MMD) …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: That means a self-centred Government. What I was trying to say yesterday was that the MMD made my time very difficult with different kinds of allegations just because I was serving in the PF Government. I want to say that His Excellency, Mr Micheal Chilufya Sata …

Hon. PF Member: The President.

Mr Masumba: … the President of this Republic, never, at any time, left me alone. He supported me all the way and really revealed himself as the father that this nation has been looking for.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: Mr Chairperson, it is not surprising to note that the people of Zambia decided to kick the MMD out of the power because of the party’s arrogance.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: By virtue of the experiences I went through, I would like to urge my colleagues in the MMD who are serving as hon. Deputy Ministers in our PF Government to draw strength and lessons from what I experienced. Moreover, we all belong to our own constituencies. Therefore, we have to put the interest of our constituencies first.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: Mr Chairperson, let me tell them that they will always have a comforting father in the Republican President, who is also the President of our party, the PF, Mr Micheal Chilufya Sata.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: Do not allow the former pastor, Dr Nevers Mumba, to sit on your constitutional right to serve the people of Zambia.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: If he continues to mishandle you, you should come on board because the boat is more than willing to receive you whole-heartedly.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: Mr Chairperson, let me also thank the United Party for National Development (UPND) and its grassroot officials for the support they gave to me.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
 
Mr Masumba: To this effect, I am appealing to the Republican President to nominate the UPND leader, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, to this House and appoint him Southern Province Minister.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Hon. Government Members: Bwekeshapo!

Mr Masumba: Mr Chairperson, for the sake of clarity, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: … I thought that the pact was between the MMD and the UPND but, to my surprise, I discovered that the earlier pact between the PF and UPND still exists. To this effect, I am appealing to the Republican President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, to nominate the UPND leader, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, to this House and also appoint him Southern Province Minister. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Masumba: Mr Chairperson, let me also appreciate the finished MMD for making me popular by calling me a playboy and dancing king during their malicious campaigns. 

Laughter 

Hon. Government Member: Kuichaila!

Mr Masumba: I recall someone in this House saying that he was as vicious as lightening. Even though they talked about my dancing during their campaigns, I kept dancing …

Laughter 

Mr Masumba: … because I knew that the more I danced, the more attracted the voters would be. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: I want to also thank all the well-meaning members of the MMD for their support, both financial and moral, and for not de-campaigning me in Mufumbwe because there was a serious cartel at work. May God bless them. 

Mr Chairperson, it is my sincere pleasure to thank His Honour the Vice-President, Dr Guy Scott, and the hon. Minister for the Western Province, Hon. Mwaliteta. 

Mr Mwaliteta: Hear, hear! 

Mr Masumba: Hon. Mwaliteta came to Mufumbwe and I saw him kneeling down seriously asking for votes during the by-election campaigns. He worked tirelessly with my campaign team to ensure that we won the seat. 

Mr Chairperson, I also want to thank all the officials who found time to join us in the battlefield. I would be unfair if I did not mention the efforts put in by my campaign manager, Hon. Jean Kapata.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulenga: Mayo mpapa!

Mr Masumba: She worked like a mother and deserves to be thanked. Her strategies saw us win the seat with a landslide victory. 

I also want to thank my brothers, Peter Masumba and Jonathan Munguya, for finding time to be with us during the campaign period until voting day. I also wish to thank Hon. Mwenya Musenge and Hon. Sampa for coming through to help me in the campaigns.  

Sir, I would be ungrateful if I did not thank the people of Mufumbwe for giving me a chance to represent them in this honourable House for the second time within one year. This shows how much confidence the people in my constituency have in me, and I wish to assure them that I will deliver as expected as this is a challenge that has been placed upon me by their vote. To all of them, I say, “thank you”, and may God bless mother Zambia.

Hon. Member interjected.

Laughter 

Mr Masumba: Sir, I beg your pardon. I also want to appreciate my wife, just as some people are asking me to. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: Mr Chairperson, the Opposition has decided to leave the House. They, probably, thought that my maiden speech would be vicious. On the contrary, I knew that it would be very fair. I feel sorry for them for behaving in this manner. Instead of discussing national issues, they have been influenced by the UPND. 

Mr Chairperson, our colleagues are busy obtaining money by false pretences. They come to this House just to slot in their cards then leave, thinking that Zambians do not know what is happening. How can the people of Zambia give them a mandate?  This is why the MMD and the UPND are not destined for anything, but simply wasting time. 

Sir, when this honourable House convenes, we do not serve personal interests, but the interests of Zambians. As such, our hope is to work as one. Partisan politics are supposed to be left outside. When it is time for campaigns, we can politic out there.  This is the only place where we can work as one. Unfortunately, to my surprise, the Opposition has run off, yet, when it is time for allowances, they are the first people to queue up. 

Sir, with those few remarks, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Simuusa):Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me the opportunity to wind up debate. 

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Minister is winding up and I want all of you to observe silence.  

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, you have, from time to time, guided this House that, when an hon. Member raises an issue, it is important that he or she is in the House to get the response to the issue raised. I would like to respond to the issues raised by our colleagues who are currently outside the House. They may not be in the Chamber, at the moment, but I know that they are listening. I hope they will come back into the House so that we deliberate and sort out very important national issues. 

Having said that, I wish to respond first to issues raised by Hon. Bwalya, who is here. Indeed, we shall educate our leaders on the value of land, especially the traditional leaders. It is a fact that we need to appreciate the value of the land we have in Zambia. It is only now, judging from the debates, that we are realising that our land is actually very valuable, hence all the issues coming up. 

I want to thank Hon. Namulambe for his comments, and confirm that the issue of deforestation is serious. We have one of the highest deforestation rates in the world, which should not be allowed to continue, hence the national tree planting programme. I would like to thank the hon. Members, despite having said this already, for the overwhelming support to the Vote. I wish to confirm that measures that were supported for the tree planting programme are being implemented, and acknowledge the call for alternatives. This is very important because charcoal burning, which you mentioned, has been identified as one of the main drivers of deforestation. 

   As a nation, again, we need to look at the issue of charcoal. I can confirm that, shortly, we will be calling for a national indaba on charcoal because it has become an issue of national importance. On one hand, it is an economic activity sustaining our people but, on the other hand, it is creating the untold misery of deforestation. So, I believe that we need to quickly decide what to do as far as charcoal burning and deforestation are concerned.

Hon. Namulambe, I acknowledge the complaints and problems being caused by the boundary conflicts, especially among traditional leaders. I have the opportunity to travel around the country and visit their royal highnesses. Generally, everywhere I have gone, the issue of boundary conflicts is serious. In fact, the maps are ready. I was talking to the Surveyor-General yesterday. We are going to distribute the maps. I have also been discussing with my colleague in the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs so that we get to the bottom of the matter. The 1958 boundary maps are ready. I will be looking at them today. In consultation with my colleague, we shall distribute them to the provincial centres where their royal highnesses should look at them maps and see how the boundaries are. 

As the Government, we are not going to interfere in the boundary disputes. We will give their royal highnesses the decorum of Parliament which is that of self regulation. They will be able to look at these maps, self-regulate and get back to us through the two ministries. Where there is a dispute, let them agree. We shall take that into account and incorporate them into the map. Hopefully, once the noise has settled and we are all agreed, working in consultation with the House of Chiefs, we shall produce another map. I do not know whether we can finish the work by 2013 so that we can have what can be called the 2013 Boundary Map. The maps which the chiefs need to work with are ready. We were just looking at them today in the office. Working in consultation with the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, we will put them in every District Commissioner’s and the provincial local government officer’s office.

Sir, I know that even if my other colleagues are not here, they are listening to what I am saying. I wish to state that the land audit is going to take off. We will be launching it and it will be very comprehensive. All the seven critical variables, such as gender, occupation, age and use, shall be captured. Therefore, it will be possible to answer the questions we cannot answer now. For example, there was a question raised about how much land in Zambia is owned by women. We cannot answer that now. There was also a question on how much land in Zambia is State land and how much of it is customary when Hon. Request Muntanga was debating. However, with the land audit and variables we are going to capture, it will be very possible to answer those questions.

With regards to the question of ownership of land, I would say that right now, I know there is a big debate about land ownership in Zambia vis-à-vis indigenous verses foreign ownership. We need to establish how much land is owned by foreigners. This debate is getting louder.

Sir, I think that we need to sit down and start discussing what we want to do with our land in Zambia. We have been talking about land reforms for a long time now without making any critical decisions. There was a suggestion that what is happening in Zimbabwe will most likely happen in Zambia because we are not very clear on what we want to do with our land. I think that it is high time we sat down and discussed issues to do with land. We are ready, as ministry, to lead this exercise of bringing reforms and changing our land law system in the country. That is very important.

Sir, I also want to mention that we shall look at Hon. Ng’onga’s concern on land disputes.

Finally, we are looking at border issues. There were skirmishes at the border with the Democratic Republic of the Congo. We want things at our border there to be the way they are at the Nakonde Border. We do not have conflict with any country regarding the Nakonde Border. I would also like to mention that we do not have any conflict on Angola/Zambia Border, but there are skirmishes here and there. However, we, as a country, we will subscribe to the African Union Border Programme which encourages cross-border interaction, trade and co-existence. 

In concluding, Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank the hon. Members in the House for giving overwhelming support to my Vote and all the comments. I wish to end by saying that, indeed, as the hon. Minister of Finance said, it is very important, at a certain stage, that we work together and have a common goal, at least, on issues of development so that we drive our country forward.

Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 85/01 - (Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection - Human Resource and Administration - K19,082,652,299)

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment under 05: Human Resource Management Unit, Programme 1088: Human Resources Management, by the deletion of K56,227,706 and the substitution therefor of K56,227,705.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 85/01, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Chairperson: Sometimes, we do things too fast. I was supposed to put a question. However, there was nobody who sought clarification anyway.

Interruptions

Vote 85/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 85/03 - (Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection - Lands Department - K4,217,765,150)

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment under 03: Land Management Unit, Programme 1100: Land Administration and Management, by the deletion of K284,585,156 and the substitution therefor of K284,585,155.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 85/03, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 85/04 - (Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection - Survey Department - K8,522,214,767)

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

(i)under 03: Survey Services Unit, Programme 1033: Border demarcation and other related activities, by the deletion of K765,944,057 and the substitution therefor of K765,944,056; and

(ii)under 04: Cadastral Unit, Programme 1173: Surveying of Properties (AIA), by the deletion of K699,376,650 and the substitution therefor K699,376,652.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 85/04, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

VOTE 87/01 – (Anti-Corruption Commission – K58,800,820,306).

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Chairperson, I rise to present the Estimates of Expenditure for the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) for 2013. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government attaches great importance to fighting corruption and promoting integrity, transparency and accountability in the management of public affairs and resources. It is for this reason that this Government strengthened the law on corruption in order to demonstrate its resolve and commitment to fighting the vice and uphold integrity.

Sir, corruption and all related crimes that include theft, fraud, embezzlement and misappropriation of funds will not be allowed to take root in this country. My Government will ensure that these vices continue to be checked in order to prevent and punish those who choose to indulge in them.

Mr Chairperson, the operations of the ACC, for which these estimates are presented, are in line with its mandate of investigation, prosecution, prevention and education as stipulated in the new Anti-Corruption Act No. 3 of 2012.

Mr Chairperson, in 2012, the ACC made significant progress and achievements in its work. The implementation of the National Anti-Corruption Policy across Government ministries, departments and agencies progressed smoothly. The commission facilitated the establishment of three integrity committees at the Ministry of Health, Medical Stores and the Law Development Agency. The commission also provided technical support towards the development of codes of ethics, customer service charters and work progress re-engineering in work practices and procedures in these three institutions.

Further, corruption vulnerability assessments in the service delivery systems of six public institutions, namely the Ministry of Education, Science, Technology and Vocational Training, National Road Fund Agency (NRFA), Lusaka City Council (LCC), Medical Stores and Zambia Police Service, were conducted.

Mr Chairperson, the commission also established a number of partnerships with other stakeholders that included a memorandum of understanding (MoU) on information sharing with the Auditor-General’s Office. It is my Government’s desire to see that this partnership leads to quick action on cases of suspected corruption leading to successful prosecution and recovery of ill-gotten wealth. In addition, a fund was established and launched in February, 2012, with support from the Department for International Development (DFID) of the United Kingdom, for civil society organisations to design and implement anti-corruption interventions in various communities and target groups.

Mr Chairperson, the commission worked with the Curriculum Development Centre under the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to integrate the subject of anti-corruption into the education curriculum for Grades 1 to 12. This process is expected to be completed by the end of 2012. Several community awareness programmes were also carried out, resulting in over 25,000 people being sensitised on the effects of corruption and on their need to take steps to reject the vice. Enforcement of the anti-corruption legislation also saw a number if high profile cases being investigated and some were taken before the courts of law.

Mr Chairperson, as a result of the above-mentioned programmes and activities that the Government undertook through the ACC, the international community and general public have appreciated this Government’s efforts towards the fight against corruption. In addition, investor confidence has risen as a result of the Government’s stance against corruption.

Mr Chairperson, for 2013, the commission will focus its energies on the following programmes:

(a)completing the setting up of the Special Investigations Unit;

(b)implementing a computerised case management system;

(c)procurement of office accommodation for Kitwe, Lusaka, Chipata, Livingstone and Mongu provincial offices over the medium term;

(d)submitting to the Government draft regulations, rules and procedures on the new Anti-Corruption Act, Whistleblowers Act and Forfeiture of Proceeds of Crime Act for the effective enforcement of these pieces of legislation; 

(e)implementing the National Anti-Corruption Policy and consolidating the National Integrity Programme;

(f)scaling up public education programmes; and

(g)integrating anti-corruption issues at the tertiary level.

Mr Chairperson, the Government is convinced that, with support from all stakeholders and the community at large, the above programmes will significantly contribute towards corruption control and the prudent utilisation of public resources. The budget allocation for the commission for 2013 is K58,800,820,306 against the K60,162,453,812 allocated in 2012. Please, note that the 2 per cent decrease in the 2013 allocation of funds to the commission is due to the fact that the 2012 Budget carried a substantial amount allocated towards the purchase of equipment, recruitment and deployment of new staff, which is not repeated in the 2013 budget.

I am thankful to hon. Members of the House, including those who have just come back, who have continued to give support to the anti-corruption crusade and to our co-operating partners for their invaluable, material, technical and financial contribution towards this noble cause.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.  

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the Vote pertaining to the ACC. First and foremost, I would like to congratulate the newly-appointed hon. Member of the PF Government, who is now the hon. Minister for North-Western Province, for a very brilliant statement he made this morning when he cast aspersions on the hon. Members on your left.

Mr Chairperson, the ACC is a very important governance institution in this country.  Therefore, we expect that, as this very important institution dispenses its activities, it should be advising the President of the Republic of Zambia that in his appointments of hon. Ministers to serve in the Government of the Republic of Zambia, he must be prudent and ensure that those who are being appointed to those positions do not abuse their positions. The ACC must advise the President that those who are appearing in court for forging government documents …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … should not be allowed to hold Government positions. This is because once a person has the propensity to forge educational qualifications, he/she will also be enticed to forge other documents of a very important nature in the positions they will be holding.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: It is a question of integrity. Those who are appearing in court on issues of lacking credence, prudence and not being principled in life should not be allowed to hold positions because, if they continue doing so, members of the public will start questioning why they should hold these positions and will lose confidence in the Government of the day.

Mr Ntundu: Even those hiding tractors.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, it is very important that the ACC should advise on such matters. The ACC should also advise that if leaders are implicated in the missing of tractors, they should not be holding positions in the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: It is the responsibility of the ACC to do that. It is also the responsibility of the ACC to ensure that those who hold positions and at one time were petitioned and issues of corruption were raised, are not allowed to hold public office because it is a question of the credibility of the offices of the Government. It is also a matter of credibility that those whose standing in society is questioned by members of the public are not the first persons to question the credibility of those who have never been questioned in life because people will misunderstand that you are trivialising issues of principle in life.

Sir, I also want to appeal to the commission that as it does its work in ensuring that there is no corruption in this country, the process must not be selective. It should not be targeting those who are perceived to be opponents of the Government of the day. The anti-corruption crusade must be transparent and the commission should not be waiting for action to be taken until one leaves public office.

   Once they start doing that, the perception is that those who are in the Government are insulated, hence the failure of the ACC crusade. We would like to appeal to the ACC to ensure that everyone is treated fairly. We should not be seen to be targeting particular individuals.

Mr Chairperson, all of us here, on your left side, support this particular institution, but  would like to appeal that as we support this particular institution, it should not be seen to be used by those with political authority. It should not be used in that way because issues of corruption affect both those who are in and outside the Government. That affects the delivery of services to the people whom we are supposed to be serving. The ACC actions are supposed to be protecting the interest of every one of us here. Once they do that, we will not be questioning them. However, we have seen with dismay that it would appear that the ACC officers only have authority to move against those who are not from the ‘royal’ family and those who are weak in society. This is despite it being an institution of the nation. It is not for an individual. I also want to remind our colleagues on your right side that they used to complain when they were on your left side that this particular institution was toothless and was being used by our colleagues who were in the Government at the time. Those on the right must bear in mind that there will come a time when they will no longer be in Government. At that time, even they will start crying foul when issues will be raised against them. 

We have noted with concern, Mr Chairperson, that our colleagues, of late, have the propensity of going for single sourcing. They do not advertise contracts. 

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu:  If you challenge me, I can cite them.

Hon. Government Member: Cite them.

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, I have been challenged. They should not cry foul when I start mentioning names.

The Chairperson:  Order! 

The fact that they have challenged you is not an excuse for you to mention names. I have to uphold the dignity and rules of the House. It is also only fair for me to say that I think it is in the interest of the House that you do not say things in order to provoke the situation because if he mentions the names and I keep quiet, it will not be fair. You will be doing injustice to the people who are named when they should not be.

The hon. Member for Monze Central, continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, for making me not to mention their names.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I was appealling to our colleagues that in the same way we used to stand up together against issues of single sourcing,  we should be against them even today. I would like to appeal to their conscience that they should not allow single sourcing to continue. They should not allow discrimination in their awarding of contracts. We have noted with concern that those who are perceived to be in good books with the PF are getting the contracts to the detriment of those capable men and women who are able to deliver services in this country. We are aware of companies that have been given contracts to do roads in this country which are not able to perform. When they fail to perform, the people of Zambia will suffer as a result of that lack of performance. Whom are we serving? We are awarding contracts everyday for the provision of goods and services in this country, but the quality services that the people of this country are crying for are not being seen. What has changed, hon. Colleagues? We used to condemn, together, those companies that were being awarded contracts to do shoddy work, but, today, it is those same companies that are being honoured. What has changed?  

We are aware of the companies, Mr Chairperson, that were blacklisted …

Mr Ntundu: Tomorrow Investment Limited.

The Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member for Gwembe is provoking the Chair. 

Laughter

The Chairperson: After I made a ruling and you deliberately do that, you make my work difficult.

The hon. Member for Monze Central, continue.

Mr Mwiimbu:  Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I was saying we are aware of companies that were blacklisted. These are companies that were condemned by our colleagues on your right side. These are companies which have repeatedly let down the people of this country by failing to deliver services. However, these companies have suddenly found favour with them. What are we achieving?  Are there some hidden benefits they are getting from these companies? It is not in the interest of any one of us, especially those hon. Members of Parliament in the constituencies where these particular companies had worked and performed very badly, to allow them to continue. Why should we allow a company to build a school for fifteen years? Why should we do that and keep on giving them variations so that they can increase the cost? Is that not an element of corruption? It is a result of these activities that I would like to compel and ask the ACC to stop being so quiet in their activities. Why should they wait for somebody or a member of the public to raise an issue publicly for them to move? They have offices throughout the country and are aware of companies that have been given contracts, but they are not moving. They fear that if they move, some other action will be taken against them. That is why we were appealing to the Government to ensure that the body is professional. That is what we said even yesterday when we were ratifying one of the commissioners. One of the recommendations that came from the Committee was that the commissioners must be given security of tenure so that they do not fear for their positions. That is why we are saying that it is not only the Director-General who should have security of tenure, but even those who hold senior positions in the ACC so that they can perform their duties without fear of being victimised.

Mr Chairperson, I know that my colleagues will also want to add their voices to this very important Vote which is on the Floor. Once again, I would like to thank the hon. Deputy Minister of the North-Western Province.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to add my voice to the vote for the ACC. To begin with, I want to pay tribute to our colleagues serving in the ACC for their tireless efforts in fighting corruption in this country.

Mr Chairperson, the ACC has not relented in the fight against corruption in this country despite the hardships they experience. We have realised that the ACC has been facing serious difficulties with regard to both land and water transport. This is in addition to inadequate funding. However, they have continued to fight tooth and nail in ensuring that this country becomes corrupt free. This is commendable. They should keep the spirit burning.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Chairperson, in my view, the ACC can even perform better than it is doing currently if only it can be provided with adequate funding, land and water transport and other necessities. The office should also get decentralised up to district level. Once that is done, we will see the commission perform better than it is doing at the moment. In my view, the above are a spring board to any progressive office. In this connection, I humbly request the Executive to ensure that it lays the ground for strengthening the work of the ACC. 

Mr Chairperson, on the other hand, I want to talk about the difficulties that we have currently. We have serious difficulties of distinguishing between abuse of office and doing business. What is currently obtaining on the ground is that, for instance, Chisala has been a businessman dealing in fish, but once he becomes an hon. Member of Parliament, it is believed that he cannot continue because he is an hon. Member of Parliament. I urge my colleagues in the ACC to come and educate hon. Members of Parliament in February next year so that we can know the dos and don’ts. Personally, I do not know what abuse of office is as contrasted with normal business. This alone, if not clarified to us, is going to make us poorer than we came. When some of us came here, we were already in the business of selling fish.

Laughter

Mr Chisala: What should stop me from engaging in that type of business? I do not want to die a poor man.

Laughter

Mr Chisala: I would love to continue to deal in the fish business ...

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: … because I know that that is something through which I earn my living.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: In this connection, I humbly request the ACC to ensure that they come here in February and educate us. They should draw a line on the dos and don’ts of the hon. Members of Parliament.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Chairperson, with these remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to add my voice on the Vote on the Floor of the House. 

Mr Speaker, from the outset, allow me to begin by reminding myself that this PF Government’s political slogan by its President was to proclaim allergy to corruption. When opening Parliament, the President stated that he was allergic to corruption. Somebody who is allergic to corruption cannot entertain corruption or even exist in the vicinity of corrupt individuals or even work with them in Cabinet.

Mr Chairperson, at policy level, this Government has stated that it would like to strengthen the fight against corruption. While the Vice-President has said that the funding to the ACC has not reduced, in essence, it has not only reduced, but is actually not enough when you look at the enormity of the work that the ACC has to carry out. If we have to have a meaningful dent in the fight against corruption, the ACC requires more funding than what we are seeing. With this level of funding, it is nugatory to the statements by the PF Government that they want to strengthen the fight against corruption.

I must bring to the attention of the PF Government that world over, the fight against corruption is shifting from emphasising investigation and prosecution to education and prevention. When you talk about education and prevention, you find that there is great need at the moment for the ACC to carry out research so that it can understand the many elements regarding the fight against corruption. It must also understand the various processes which are involved in Government transactions.

Ms Kalima: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kalima: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order. Sir, when I came to this House, I was very excited because I wanted to contribute to the nation’s well being, speak on behalf of the people of Kasenengwa, and God willing, contribute to change in this country. However, I am very disappointed that my continued stay into the second year …

The Chairperson: Order!

Please, when you want to raise a point of order you should go straight to it. Your preliminaries are too long.

Ms Kalima: Mr Chairperson, I am building it up. Please, allow me …

The Chairperson: Order!

No! I have to abide by the rules of game. Do not debate. You can make a brief introductory remark then go to your point of order.

Ms Kalima: Mr Chairperson, this is why I am rising on this point of order.

The Chairperson: I will curtail you if you begin arguing with the Chair.

Can you make your point of order.

Ms Kalima: Mr Chairperson, is this House, under the PF Government in order to continue failing to follow procedure? A case in point is the situation we had in the morning where the Vice-President could not continue to answer questions and we were told that we could ask under the Vice-President’s Question Time. Is this House in order to continue curtailing the points of order on serious national issues? Our points of order have been curtailed repeatedly, thus turning the work of this House into an academic exercise. The people outside are wondering how we have been passing Bills because they think that the work of Parliament has been turned into an academic exercise. Mr Chairperson, I seek your serious ruling.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that hon. Members must read their Standing Orders. Once again, let me guide you on points of order. 

The point of order must be made on procedure or decorum, and it should be made right there and then. It must also be relevant. That point of order you have raised is on something that happened an hour ago. As the presiding officer, I cannot allow that. You put us here in order that we can help you uphold the rules of the game. Therefore, that point of order is unsustainable. You can continue, Mr Mweetwa.

Ms Kalima left the Assembly Chamber.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, I was stressing the point that, to strengthen the fight against corruption, one of the areas that requires …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

I want him to be heard. 

You may continue.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, one of the areas that the ACC currently, urgently requires in order to be strengthened is research, and research requires funding. For instance, there is a need for the ACC to study and understand the various Government processes and systems that are prone to corruption so that it comes up with appropriate interventions and recommendations to this House for appropriate legislation to be put in place.

Mr Chairperson, the issue of research and expansion of the knowledge base at the ACC is of paramount importance because, currently, this House has passed certain pieces of legislation which the ACC and other Government agencies, including the Judiciary, have difficulties applying or implementing. For instance, this House passed the Forfeiture of Proceeds of Crime Act No 19 of 2010. This legislation brings with it a certain level of prudence. It relates to the departure from the normal course of conduct by the ACC and other investigative agencies aimed at punitive and retributive mechanisms in terms of punishing culprits who are involved in corruption. Under this Act, there is a certain level of prudence which is under the civil forfeiture clause which allows the State to go to court to retrieve properties that are deemed to have been obtained corruptly without the conviction of the culprit. I am aware that investigative agencies are grappling with this piece of legislation. 

Mr Chairperson, there is a need for sensitisation of not only the ACC staff, but also other Government agencies as well. Let me now speak for the ACC. The ACC requires funding in this area so that it can sensitise its staff on the pieces of legislation that this House passes so that it can understand what these pieces of legislation are meant to achieve. If this is done, it will give efficacy to the legal regime that this House creates. 

Sir, the ACC and other Government agencies are used to the provisions of the Criminal Procedure Code (CPC). However, this Forfeiture of the Proceeds of Crime Act brings certain dimensions that are quite different in approach. For instance, since the passing of this Act, it appears to me, and many other people, including  the ACC, that only Section 71 of that Act has come into play this far. I am also aware that the officers at the ACC, not long ago, invited experts from outside the country to come and sensitise them on how to apply some of the pieces of legislation. However, those activities are not reflected in the Budget that the Vice-President has brought to this House. Therefore, there is a need to give the ACC more money.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to talk about the staffing levels at the ACC. Currently, if my records serve me right, the ACC has only fourteen prosecutors to serve the whole country. This number is far below what is required to effectively discharge the mandate for which the commission was created. The ACC is only present in provincial headquarters, and not in the districts. This poses a serious challenge to the operations of the ACC.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, this problem has been exacerbated further by the creation of new districts. The creation of new districts means that there are more focal points where Government transactions are going to be done. This is going to expand the scope of work of the ACC. As you were creating the districts, you should have had it in mind that you also required to expand the budget for the ACC because you expanded the scope of its work.

Mr Chairperson, let me come to the legal services offered by the ACC. Currently, the ACC only has one legal department and it is centralised in Lusaka. As a result of lack of funding, the ACC does not have legal desks in all these other provinces where it is present. This is posing a grave problem when it comes to investigating certain cases.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to briefly talk about the autonomy of the ACC. In its constitutive document, the ACC is supposed to operate autonomously. However, lately, I have seen that it does not. The autonomy of any organisation begins with funding, which I have already spoken about. When you do not fund the ACC adequately, you are compromising the autonomy of the commission. The other thing I would like to talk about relating to the autonomy of the ACC is the way its proceedings are instituted. Before the ACC can proceed to court with a case it is investigating on the merits of its own investigations as an autonomous body, it has to seek permission from the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). What level of autonomy is this? It is up to the DPP to decide whether the proceedings should be taken to court or not. I think that this compromises the autonomy of the commission as well as its ability to carry out prosecutions based on merits of its own investigations. 

Further, this impedes the speed with which they carry out their prosecutions because, sometimes, files and dockets are held up at the DPP for instruction.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, allow me also to talk about the question of the conditions of service of the ACC staff. I have heard statements from the PF Government that it would like to harmonise the conditions of service of the ACC staff with those of the rest of the Government workers. I think that this is going to undermine the fight against corruption because the ACC is placed in a special position to carry out a special task for and on behalf of the people of this country. It is just like the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) officers who collect revenue. How does one expect them to be paid at the same level as everybody else? Therefore, I do not think that it is right for the conditions of service for ACC employees to be harmonised with the rest of Government workers. In fact, what this Government should have been doing or saying is to improve the conditions of service of the ACC. I do not understand why it would want to weaken them.

Lastly, Sir, I would like to talk about the level of political interference that we have witnessed lately, where a suspect has the guts to write to the ACC to promise his co-operation. The ACC does not require an assurance of co-operation from any suspect who is facing corruption charges.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Otherwise, if every suspect wrote to the ACC pledging co-operation, the commission would stop its usual work because it would be inundated and overwhelmed by these letters of co-operation from suspects of corruption.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, where do these suspects facing corruption allegations serving as hon. Ministers in the PF Government  find the guts to elevate themselves above the law because everyone should be equal before the law. The law does not require any suspect to write a letter to the ACC and copy it to the President. That is advertently informing the ACC that, ‘mind you, the President is watching what you are doing there.’ To make matters worse, the person who wrote the letter even went to the extent of issuing an ultimatum.

Sir, the President claimed that he is allergic to corruption, but his Cabinet has some people who are facing corruption charges, and we are told that some of these are his henchmen. So, with this kind of display, it is difficult to think that the PF Government and its leader actually mean well in the fight against corruption. They are failing to live up to their words because actions speak louder than words.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the Vote and support the budget line of the ACC.

Sir, the people of Lupososhi Constituency are aware that this institution is an important one and that it is charged with the responsibility of curbing corruption in this country.

Mr Chairperson, the vices, ills and problems of corruption are well-known. They actually bring about suffering on the Zambian people. It is because of corruption that we have the poor road and education infrastructure and shortages of drugs in hospitals.

Sir, the issue of abuse of office or authority is cardinal in the sense that it helps to control and deter certain issues. However, I am worried that these same clauses are bringing about indecision in certain individuals charged with the responsibility of acting. For fear of being cited for abuse of office or authority, certain decisions are suffering. 

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: As a result, certain projects are delaying unnecessarily. It is important that we draw a line and ensure that those of us who are charged with the responsibility of making decisions make do so based on the law, and are not afraid that this will come for as long as it is done in the right way. When we delay certain decisions, we are actually delaying the development that the Zambia people who elected us, those in Lupososhi and Petauke Constituency, want.

Laughter 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Chairperson, I would, therefore, love a situation where His Honour the Vice-President and the ACC educate those charged with the responsibility to make decision, that the law is there to protect them and the resources of this country.

Sir, the other aspect is, the definition of public officers is a bit flawed because certain individuals are excluded from that definition. 

I have in mind the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) officials. The ACC is unable to deal with the issues to do with FRA because, I am told, the commission is not included in the definition. That is an aspect that we critically need to look at and address.

Mr Chairperson, as regards the issue of the declaration of assets, it appears that corruption is only deemed or perceived to be committed by those in political offices. Hon. Members of Parliament and hon. Ministers are the ones who are perceived to be involved in corruption. Therefore, we are asked to declare our assets every so often. To what category of employees is this law applied? Does it extend to the Permanent Secretaries and those who are in the Judiciary? What about the clerks in various ministries; those whom we have heard may have more assets than politicians? Is this law of declaring assets extended to those in key public and private institutions? This is because there is corruption in private institutions as well. It is not only in the Civil Service or amongst the politicians. Corruption cuts across even those who have private companies and non-governmental organisations (NGOs). Therefore, I would urge the ACC to, once again, see if there are any other loopholes so that we can seal them and bring in all those we perceive to be in a position to handle a lot of public resources and ask them to also declare their assets.

Mr Chairperson, with those very few words, I thank you.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Vote on the Floor of this House.

Sir, this is an issue that is close to my heart. The last time I spoke on this issue, I dwelt so much on the static nature of the public service delivery systems, which I thought were not matching with the dynamic nature of our society. Today, I would like to dwell on the types of corruption that we are seeing in our midst. These are corruption elements that, if not properly addressed, might lead to the extinction of our moral fibre, as a nation.

Mr Chairperson, to start with, I have in mind a type of corruption that I will call abuse of discretion, abuse of power or abuse of office. This type of corruption is right in our midst and, unfortunately, it is being perpetuated in the highest offices of our land.

Mr Chairperson, for example, it is corruption of the highest order for someone to form a commission of inquiry which gobbles public funds and just shelve its findings. It is abuse of discretion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, deporting people because of the misuse of one’s discretion is what I call corruption and the ACC should find a way of moving in to address such issues. Those who have discretionary powers must use them rightly. Using them wrongly is called abuse of office and constitutes corruption.

Mr Chairperson, I know that there are offices that have got discretion. However, when one arbitrarily, without consideration of other people’s feelings, realigns districts at will, we call that corruption, and I have no regrets for saying that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Appointing people who have criminal cases in court, in the name of using your discretion, is corruption. The ACC should find a way of visiting such offices in order to address this issue.

Sir, the Bank of Zambia is a constitutional institution with powers. When it makes a decision such as the one that was made on Finance Bank and then someone else comes in the name of discretion to reverse its decision, I call that corruption and such corruption is abominable.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: The other type of corruption I am going to talk about is extortion or blackmail which is right in our midst, and it centres on issuing threats to people so that they follow your line of thinking. For example, taking someone to court and using that case to threaten them for them to follow you is corruption.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: We are aware that some of our colleagues in this country are doing things out of immoral thinking simply because they want to get cushioned from court cases and that is corruption. It should not be allowed in our land.

Mr Chairperson, another type of corruption, which I would like to cite, is the corruption of bribery or kickbacks. We know that some offices have been protected simply because they have given kickbacks. I know that I am not supposed to give names here, but what we saw in this country during the last cotton marketing season smells of corruption. I say this because we are aware that meetings were held and we have also been holding meetings with some of these people. When some people are seen to be protected by those who have power, we see corruption and I do not regret saying that.

Mr Chairperson, the other type of corruption I am going to talk about is favouritism or nepotism which is rife under the PF Government. I do not see the ACC moving in to deal with this because it lacks strong autonomy. 

Sir, we have seen companies that have been blacklisted after protracted investigations. They have been blacklisted from bidding for tenders in the country. However, with the change of Government, it seems that they have become the best companies, and they are being given tenders. Just a year before, they were seen to be corrupt, what has changed? What has made them so good after they were banned by the same governance system? I smell corruption. Smelling can refer to a good scent or a stench.

Mr Chairperson, the appointment of people to public offices based on nepotism and favouritism is corruption of the highest order. We have seen that Zambia is segmented in regions of the brilliant and the not so brilliant. That is seen in the manner in which appointments are being made and that constitutes corruption. 

Sir, the University of Zambia has got people from all over the country studying there but, when they graduate, there seems to be a systematic way of segmenting them. I do not know what has been used, but when I look at the regionalism that is there, I can only attribute that to corruption. Favouritism and nepotism must be fought by the ACC.

Mr Chairperson, embezzlement, theft or fraud is a form of corruption which is rife in our midst. Unfortunately, you can be directly involved in corruption or you can abet it. When you are seen to support a proven convict of fraud, what do we call you? You are an accomplice and you are also corrupt.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: We have seen people who have been convicted by the courts of law for corruption who have become saints who dine with those we should be making sure that they are punished. In my view, that is corruption and I hope the ACC is listening. However, the ACC is in a very disadvantaged position because it is not autonomous.

Mr Chairperson, how can we explain a scenario of a convict who has been pardoned being given a job in the Public Service a day after he has been released? Is that not corruption? Then, in public, we sing about being allergic to corruption. I am aware that there are people who claim to be what they are not. It is common for a thief to pretend to be a saint. As the saying goes, action speaks louder than words. We have heard the words, but the actions have deafened them.

Mr Chairperson, my contention is that the ACC must refocus its efforts. It should not just dwell on these small cases because these are small issues which are coming out of much larger issues which they are neglecting. There is no way we can kill a snake if we do not attack the head. As the saying goes, the fish starts rotting from the head. If the head is rotten, I do not see how we can eat the rest of the fish.

I contend that the ACC must be given absolute autonomy so that it does not have to look over its shoulders as it approaches the corrupt officers that I have mentioned in this House. 

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I thank you.

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, I was not very clear on how the head of the fish became the head of the snake or vice versa. Similarly, I was so confused with much more of the last speaker’s imagery that the Zambia he paints is a place that, certainly, I could not live in. I am amazed he can live in it.

Sir, I would like to thank the party members such as Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, Hon. Obvious Chisala, Hon. Mweetwa, Hon. Bwalya and Hon. Hamudulu, of course, of the snake that rots from the head.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Sir, I do not think there was anything controversial or new except, maybe, there was an unfair attack, I thought, on the DPP and on the levels of prosecutors. There are twenty-one prosecutors at work after the recruitment exercise, and it is important to keep the DPP in the loop, just to avoid over enthusiasm of people looking for snakes simulating fish. 

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I beg to move.

Vote 87/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 78 – Zambia Security Intelligence Services – Office of the President – K369,172,619,850).

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, I rise to present the Estimates of Expenditure for 2013, in respect of the Zambia Security Intelligence Service. 

Sir, I wish to remind the House that, as enshrined in our Constitution, it is the responsibility of the Zambia Security Intelligence Service to protect the people and the Republic of Zambia against threats to the interests of the country. This responsibility goes with the considerable demand for resources to facilitate the smooth and efficient running of this important institution in the architecture of the security system of our country. Therefore, it is our obligation, as a Government, to ensure that resources, limited as they may be, are put at the disposal of the institution. 

Mr Chairperson, the legal mandate bestowed on the Zambia Security Intelligence Service which is, among other things, to protect the people and the Republic against threats and acts of espionage, subversion, sabotage and actions intended to overthrow and undermine the Government by the use of arms or other violent means, is crucial to the preservation of Zambia’s peace and security. It is, therefore, imperative that we give this institution the necessary support to enable it to deliver on this mandate in line with the aspirations of the Zambian people to which this institution owes its allegiance. It is only through our support that this institution will discharge its mandate professionally. 

Sir, the peace our nation continues to enjoy is as a result of the collective efforts of our defence and security services to which the Zambia Security Intelligence Service is an integral part. Our intelligence service has, over the years, proved to be the country’s reliable first line of defence, largely on account of the support it has received from this August House, in terms of the allocation of resources. It is against this background that I wish to appeal to all hon. Members to be supportive in debating the Estimates of Expenditure for the Zambia Intelligence Security Service for 2013. 

Mr Chairperson, as we consider these budget estimates, it is important that we take stock of not only the internal situations threatening the unity and the constitutional order of the country, but also the region and the world as a whole, as no country is an island and is impacted by the external situation such as conflicts in neighbouring countries. 

Sir, in addition, the world is increasingly becoming vulnerable to transnational threats, such as terrorism, organised crime and human trafficking. These require collective efforts in addressing them. In view of this, we as a country are obliged to co-operate with other countries in combating these threats and this demands the provision of a lot of resources and other related logistical support to enhance the capacity of our security apparatus. The dynamism of security entails that we should invest heavily in such institutions to enable them to be responsive to developing situations. 

Mr Chairperson, as a Government, we are committed to ensuring that we have in place an efficient and professional service that will meet the expectations of the Zambian people. We, therefore, undertake to ensure that the capacity of this noble institution continues to be enhanced through the provision of resources that will enable it to carry out its work effectively. In this regard, I appeal for the continued support of the House.

Budget Estimates for 2013

Mr Chairperson, may I now draw the attention of the House to the proposed budget of the Zambia Security Intelligence Service for 2013. The budget estimates stand at K369,172,619,850 compared to this year’s authorised expenditure of K313,402,179,141. The increase has been necessitated by, among other things, the need to enhance manpower development programmes, capacity building and continuation of infrastructure development, such as construction of office blocks and staff houses in many districts. It is hoped that the continued construction of offices in districts will improve the working environment for our officers.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I wish to appeal to this august House to favourably consider the proposed budget before it. It is now my honour to present the estimates of expenditure for the Zambia Security Intelligence Service. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe(Mpongwe): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to contribute to debate on this important Vote for the Zambia Security Intelligence Service. From the outset, I want to state that the paltry increase in the budgetary allocation of K55 billion, in my view, is inadequate for this important institution. I have listened to the policy statement given by His Honour the Vice-President, and I know that this institution is very important. For the staff to be effective, we need to increase the staffing levels. I think that the current number of officers in this service is not adequate, looking at the number of officers that I see in my district. Mpongwe is quite big, but there are very few officers compared to the amount of work that they are supposed to do. There is a need to consider increasing the number of staff in the 2014 Budget, if we are to protect our State against threats, which affect the interest of this country. 

Sir, further, I have seen that there is a reduction in the amount given on the construction of structures. In Mpongwe, there are no offices…

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, from the outset, I would like to apologise to the hon. Member who is on the Floor, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpongwe, Hon. Namulambe who started very well and is progressing well in his debate. I am keen to listen, but I want to raise an issue that borders on the Constitution of Zambia. The issue borders on Cap 12 of the Constitution of Zambia, National Assembly, Powers and Privileges.

Sir, some of us are green horns and have only been here for a year. We have come to know that, above all, it is important to maintain the dignity and decorum of this House. I wish to quote from the Constitution of Zambia, Cap 12, the part which reads “any person shall be guilt of an offence who:

(c)    causes an obstruction or disturbance within the precincts of the Assembly Chamber during a sitting of the Assembly or a Committee therefor; or

(d)    shows disrespect in speech or manner towards the Speaker; or

(e)    commits any other acts of intention, disrespect to or with reference to the proceedings of the Assembly or of a Committee of the Assembly or to any person presiding at such proceedings.”

Mr Chairperson, allow me to also quote the Standing Orders of 2005, on challenging the decisions of the Chairperson, 61 (a) which say “subject to standing order 62, any member who wishes to challenge the decision of the Chairperson, shall do so by moving a substantive Motion. The substantive Motion may not be debated in the House unless the Committee on Privileges, Absence, and Support Services are so resolved that it be tabled before the House.”

Sir, coming to the issue at hand, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa, Hon. Victoria Kalima, challenged the decision that was earlier on made by the Hon. Speaker, and then while you were still making the ruling, she picked up eight bottles of water and instead of using the door that was next to where she was sitting, she walked across the Floor of the House showing disrespect.

Mr Chairperson, are the Whips of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Hon. Lungwangwa, and of the United Party for National Development (UPND), Hon. Garry Nkombo, in order not to cause the Government Whip to recommend that the hon. Member for Kasenengwa be referred to the Standing Order of the House? I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Some of the points of order that are made make it extremely difficult for the presiding officers to make a ruling on. The point of order has been made long after the event had taken place. Therefore, procedurally, it cannot be sustained. However, as presiding officers, we reserve the right to guide. This is why in most cases when you ask for points of order, we do allow them, but, as soon as we realise they are really not in accordance with the rules of our game, we will either say they are unsustainable or disallowed, just as I will disallow the point of order that has just been raised.

However, let me also seize the opportunity to guide that it is the responsibility of the presiding officers to guide the House as and when the need arises. As I have always said, these powers emanate from the hon. Members of Parliament. Therefore, we are not shaken by anybody who decides to disobey us because we have powers to move in and we rightly do so. I will have no ruling to make on that point of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that I have noticed that in the 2013 Budget, there is a reduction in the amount given for office construction. In 2012, it was K10,000,000,000 and there is about K7,000,000,000 for 2013. I am wondering whether my district is going to be considered for a new office block for this very important office. I have also noticed that with the creation of the new districts, there was need to actually ensure that the Vote for the construction of offices is increased because they will need more offices. Therefore, I take it that the Government is going to raise supplementary estimates so as to support this important office.

Mr Chairperson, I have also noticed that they only send one vehicle per district. I think, there is need to Budget enough money so that more vehicles can be given to the officers to ensure that they are mobile. Some districts are quite vast and, therefore, one vehicle is not enough. Hence, my call that this office must be adequately funded.

Mr Chairperson, with regard to the threats to the interest of the State, there are several issues that are involved. I think, the work of this institution cuts across the public and private institutions and how we live in society, hence the need to take keen interest and advice from this very important office. We have noticed that in the past, we are sometimes given information that we do not act on. We rely more on the so called party internal security who in most cases are misleading.

Mr Chairperson, therefore, it is important that the powers that be take keen interest in thoroughly reading the reports which are prepared by this important office. What I mean when I say that they should read the reports thoroughly is that they should read them word by word to understand the meaning. If by any chance they do not understand the meaning, they should call the officer to explain more. If we are to protect the State against any threats, we have to be alert all the time. This is the more reason I am saying that the staffing levels for this important service are quite low and need to be improved upon. It is for this reason that this office requires a lot of resources for their operations which are twenty-four hours. I do not think that the allocation of K369,172,619,850 that I have seen in the Budget is adequate. 

Therefore, it is important that we should give this important service enough resources if we are to maintain peace and order in this nation. We have to take note that Zambian population is increasing day by day including the Zambians and foreigners that would want to come and do business in Zambia. Therefore, the population in Zambia is quite high against the few officers that are in this department. 

Mr Chairperson, therefore, in my view, there is need for a drastic increase for this office in the 2014 Budget. I am calling upon this Government to raise supplementary estimates and increase the funding for this important office.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the Vote for the Zambia Security Intelligence Service. I have a few observations on the operations of this service in regard to how it is sometimes abused as an entity.

Mr Chairperson, lately, we have seen how officials from the Zambia Security Intelligence Service are abused in by-elections. I think that it is time that politicians or parties in power stopped abusing these officials. There is no to need to send officers to start following leaders as they campaign or move around in the townships. Personally, I do not think that the job of an intelligence officer is to follow people around. The abuse of these officials goes as far as sending them to monitor ward meetings or elections.   

We are a democratic State and we need to strategise on where to place the Zambia Security Intelligence Service. This organisation is actually supposed to work for all of us. It is not working for a particular party.  It is important that when they are working we allow them to be independent and do their job without any interference. I want to ask the Government that even as we pass this vote for Zambia Security Intelligence Services, we do not turn them into cadres or ask them to follow anyone around. 

Sir, looking at some of the appointments in the Government, one wonders whether the Zambia Security Intelligence Service really recommend. It is important that as they give recommendation or advise the Government on intelligence matters, the Government listens. At the moment, one wonders how certain names pass through the Zambia Security Intelligence Service. All that this organisation does is recommend names and if Cabinet Office does not pay attention to the advice, it ends there. This is why we are having people appearing in courts for forging certificates. The intelligence service is aware and they give their recommendations, but we choose to ignore them.  We should listen to them and effectively so. 

Mr Chairperson, concerning transport, I want to ride on what the previous speaker. It will not do for these offices, especially in Senanga, Western Province, to have one vehicle. You cannot give them one Land cruiser and expect them to perform. It is not possible. Sir, Senanga, Shang’ombo, Kalabo, Lukulu and Mwinilunga are border towns and so you cannot allocate one vehicle for operations, especially with the instability that is in the neighbouring countries. I think that it is time that we empowered them. Having one Land cruiser for four or five years will not work. It is damaged within three years because of the terrain. The Western Province is very sandy. It is, therefore, important to ensure that we support this office for a good cause.

Mr Chairperson, I was looking this vote and I realised that it is very important that we increase funding to training, not for the benefit of cadreism or in support of the ruling party, but for the sake of this country. They need to be well-trained. 

Mr Chairperson, officers in the Zambia Security Intelligence Service also need to improve their image. It is not right for me, if I know an official from the Office of the President (OP), to treat him or her with suspicion. These are the people who are providing security for this country. However, if their image is dented because it is believed that they are serving a particular individual or individuals, it will not work. Actually, their job is not to serve a particular individual but a whole country. This is what they are there for. 

There is, therefore, need for them to improve on their image and become very professional in the way they are dealing or handling issues of this country. This way, they will have respect and support from the citizenry. At the moment, simply because some of them are used so much in rallies and politics and have overstayed in certain areas, they are not respected. They are being pushed around everywhere.  

Sir, three years must be the minimum that someone stays in his or her work station. If you go to Senanga or Mongu, people will tell you which intelligence officer is who. When you ask the officer, he or she will tell you he is following you to understand what is being discussed. I think that some of them have overstayed in certain places and they need to be moved to other areas so that others can also serve in those places. Otherwise, I think that even calling them intelligence officers will not do because what intelligence would they be conducting if they are well-known by everyone and they are being pushed around for doing a particular job for an individual or being a cadre? 

Mr Chairperson, it is very important, that the officers who are deployed in districts or provinces are moved around every three years in order for them to remain professional. The Zambia Security Intelligence Service does not serve individuals. It is for the whole country. Its officers need to serve the country and citizenry holistically. 

Mr Mukanga: Wind up!

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, the men that need to be respected in this House are inviting me to talk back. I will come for you and if I embarrass you, do not start saying that I am a bad person. I have the capacity to hit back. 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mufalali: Yes. 

Mr Mukanga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: No points of order. 

Mr Mufalali:  Mr Chairperson, it is not necessary for hon. Ministers to heckle. I think that what we are discussing …

The Chairperson: Order!

I agree with you. Your point has been taken. Please, get onto with substance.

Mr Mufalali:  Mr Chairperson, I was saying that this entity serves us all. There is no need, therefore, for anyone to believe that it is a monopoly that serves individuals. All Zambians have a stake in it. This is why we are insisting that more money be given to them for training so that they are professional enough in whatever they are dealing.  

Mr Chairperson, I thank you. 

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to make a few remarks on this important Vote. 

Mr Chairperson, I rise to reluctantly support this Vote.  

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mbulakulima: Before I explain why I say so, allow me to pay glowing tribute to the MMD, under Dr Chiluba, for having removed the black cloud hovering above the intelligence system. Many people thought they were not user-friendly. 

However, when Dr Chiluba came into power, he made it possible for people to know that this system was not out of this world. The people of Zambians realised that these officers did not come from Jupiter. Most of the people in this system are our children and parents. Some of them went to the same schools as us. The only difference is that they have a special responsibility. The MMD made this known. 

Mr Chairperson, I reluctantly support this Vote because the funds allocated are not adequate.  I have done the calculations and I note that there is an increase of about K56 billion. These are some of the mistakes that we make. The Zambia Security Intelligence Service deserves more than this. 

The absence of war does not mean that there are no threats to this country. Not at all. Every minute, hour, day, week and month, there are threats to this country, but the men and women whom we do not see in uniform are the ones threatening these threats. We sit here comfortably thinking all is well, yet this funding is not adequate for this important organisation. Men and women who are not in uniform deserve better than this.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, the other point I would like to comment on is appointments. Appointments to the Zambia Security Intelligence Service must be done appropriately. Only professionals must be allowed to work in this organisation. We must not make the mistake of bringing in party cadres.

Hon. Government Member: Aah! Like you did!

Mr Mbulakulima: We should not disturb the system. Only those who are qualified and trained in intelligence or collecting data should be allowed. If we see the bringing in of civilians who are going to spoil the chain, then this country risks going into problems. Therefore, I would like to call upon this Government not to run away from our brothers and sisters in the intelligence system because they are part of our society. However, of late, we have observed that we are going back to the olden days when we treated them like they are out of this world.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr M. B. Mwale: From Jupiter!

Mr Mbulakulima: As if they were from Jupiter. We should not have questionable appointments in this system. Immediately we start bringing in cadres who will not be able to analyse information, all of us here risk being declared inimical to the country, which is not good.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Zoona!

Mr Mbulakulima: This is due to the party cadres we have allowed in the system. If we allow this professional body to operate professionally, nobody would be declared inimical to the country.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Zoona!

Mr Mbulakulima: Therefore, appointments are very important.

Sir, allow me to comment on the role of the Opposition with regard to the intelligence service. Not long ago, and I am glad to see most of the people who were here in the other session, you brought a suggestion that still stands. It was very sincerely done. The heads of opposition political parties like the MMD and the UPND must be briefed and given intelligence reports.

Hon. Government Members: Aah! Awe!

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: That was the debate. Those in the Opposition aspire to take over the running of the country.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

Please, continue.

Mr Mbulakulima: Not long ago, most of you were watching the American elections, in which Senator Romney was declared fit and passed the intelligence test. America said, “Yes, he is fit to lead the country”. That was after being assessed. Recently, our current President was in the Opposition and we said what you are saying. Some of the people there who are wise suggested that intelligence is not only for one person or a section of people, …

Mr E. C. Lungu: Question!

Mr Mbewe: A Lungu namwe!

Mr Mbulakulima: … but for the whole country to protect lives and property. There is nothing wrong with the intelligence updates to be given to leaders of opposition political parties.

Dr Mwali: Now, you know!

Mr Mbulakulima: That is what they are there for. They belong to Zambia and all of us belong to Zambia and we mean well. So, there should be no fear whatsoever. This is one organisation which we all love and respect. Hence, it deserves better than this.

Sir, the only perception I believe they have to fight is the rigging of elections. My appeal to the intelligence system is that it has to fight the perception that elections are rigged. Often times, our colleagues are perceived to be helping the Ruling Party in everything it does. The changing of motor vehicle numbers, threats underground, providing fuel and the rest are all associated with them. I think our service is a professional one which, I believe, the current command must face with reality. Let us remove this perception that our intelligence is used in the rigging of elections. That is why I want to urge that there be no cadres allowed to be in the intelligence system. For example, in my case, I have dealt with many professionals until now when I saw the intelligence officer in my district, Milenge, behaving like a cadre. He was in the forefront of removing the District Commissioner and collecting data for the petition of this man standing today. That is wrong. It is not the role of the intelligence service. Its workers should not take sides. Their business is to protect all of us.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Therefore, Mr Chairperson, I want to submit that I reluctantly support the Vote because it is not adequately funded. If I had my way, I would go for an amendment. Men and women whom we do not see in uniform are protecting us everyday. I urge all of you to support me so that we move amendments on this important Vote.

Mr Chairperson, with these few remarks, which are harmless, I thank you.

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank the three contributors to the debate and urge this House to support the Motion I moved.

Thank you, Sir.

Vote 78/01 ordered to stand part of Estimates.

VOTE 80 − (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education − Headquarters − K5,619,228,754,118)

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for according me this opportunity to discuss the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education for 2013. The ministry has an allocation of K5.6 trillion as compared to K4.59 trillion in 2012. This represents an increase of K956 billion or 16 per cent. Of this amount, K3.92 trillion is for personal emoluments and K1.6 trillion is for non-personal emoluments.

Sir, my ministry has continued to be guided by policies and programmes which are within the framework of the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) and the PF Manifesto. Our focus is to ensure that we achieve the provision of quality education at all levels from early childhood learning, primary and secondary education, technical and vocational education and training, adult literacy and higher education. 

Mr Chairperson, my ministry is guided by three main documents, which are: the National Policy on Education and the Science and Technology Policy and Technical Educational, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Policy.

These policies are currently undergoing review in order to harmonise and strengthen the implementation process which is anchored on the 2030 Vision. The revison is necessary for the ministry to have policy goals and strategic objectives which are a reflection of the Government’s commitment to the development of education and training as well as science and technology in the country. We believe that education is cardinal because it empowers both young and old people to be pro-active, control their destinies and better grasp economic and social opportunities in the land.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry remains committed to achieving the targets set out in the SNDP and to implement Government aspirations. To this end, the National Implementation Framework three for the education sector has been developed as a strategic document to facilitate the operationalisation of the sector’s goals and objectives.

Sir, before I proceed to highlight some of the programmes in the 2013 Budget, allow me to highlight some notable achievements and challenges my ministry faced in the year 2012.

Regarding policy and legislation, let me mention that the ministry, with the participation of stakeholders, has developed a draft early childhood education policy. The policy is intended to guide the provision, delivery and performance of early childhood education as an effective integrated service with uniform standards for children aged between three and six years. The draft national policy is expected to be finalised before the end of the year. Secondly, my ministry completed the national implementation framework. This is the document that triggers the release of funds from cooperating partners in the education and skills training sectors. To cement the agreement between my ministry and the cooperating partners, a Memorandum of Understanding was signed on 9th September, 2012.

Mr Chairperson, let me also comment on the female participation in education. The level of participation of females in education particularly at post primary levels has for a long time lagged behind that of males and the gender gap widens at this level of education and skills training. The factors that affect female participation in education and skills development range from cultural to those of a social and economic nature. However, there have been various interventions in the sector over the years, targeting the elimination of gender disparities in order to mainstream and achieve gender parity in education and training. These interventions are meant to increase the enrolment, retention and participation of girls in education and skills training. My ministry intends to continue with these initiatives, which include the re-entry policy, promotion of females education through sensitisation campaigns, the quota system at public universities, the Go-Girls campaign initiative, bursary support and the promotion of child friendly school interventions.

I salute the efforts of the civil society. Let me single out the Forum for African Women Educationalists of Zambia (FAWEZA) and Camfed amongst the many. I also salute the cooperating partners who are continuing to partner with the ministry in trying to raise female participation in education and training.

On the Information and Communications Technology (ICT) policy, I am glad to report that the draft ICT policy is ready and together with the Draft E-learning Strategy for the period 2011 and 2015, these will be presented to Cabinet for approval. I also want to mention that we have continued to work very well with the Zambia Information Communication Authority (ZICTA) to this effect, ZICTA started rolling out computers into institutions of learning at all levels. Let me also mention that my ministry has worked very well with the universities and establishing of the Zambia Research and Education Network (ZAMREN) by the three public universities. ZAMREN is now operational and as a result of this, the internet connectivity at the three public institutions and National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR) has been upgraded.

Mr Chairperson, on the youth and adult literacy, I am glad to report that the adult literacy programme, which is the key in ensuring that the majority of our youth and those who are out of school and the adults who have never been to school can now go back to learn to become literate. In doing so, the ministry with other stakeholders has developed a youth and adult literacy policy to guide the provision of adult literacy which I will soon present to Cabinet for approval. In addition, guidelines for literacy education have been developed. Further to this, thirteen primers, which are books for adult literacy, have been written and will be circulated.

Sir, ground work has been done on the transformation of the Bursaries Committee into the Students’ Loans Board. It is our intention that the Students’ Loan Board will be operational in 2013. To this effect, an allocation, as you will notice from the Budget, of K1 billion has been set aside for the establishment of the board.

On the Educational Act of 2011, my ministry will continue to work towards its revision with the aim of aligning the legal framework with the policy intentions of the PF Government. 

As regards higher education authority, my ministry is finalising the preparation of this very necessary legislation to provide for structured quality assurance and regulation of university education in Zambia. The primary aim of this legislation is to ensure confidence both locally and internationally in our higher education qualifications. Let me also report …

Mr Lufuma: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I have never risen on a point of order, but I think it is imperative. Is the hon. Deputy Minister, at the back there, in order to be reading a newspaper while the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Childhood is presenting his policy statement? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Chairperson: My guidance is that we are not supposed to be reading anything that is not related to the work of the House. Let us be mindful of that point. Continue, hon. Minister.

Dr Phiri: Mr Chairperson, let me now move on to the Zambia National Qualifications Framework (ZNQF). My ministry has now secured the necessary legislation for the introduction of the ZNQF. This framework will provide a system of seamless progression for learners through our entire education and skills training systems. Further, the ZNQF will provide a platform for pressing all our national qualifications and for determining equivalences of foreign qualifications for non-Zambians seeking to work in our country.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to briefly talk about the primary education sector. In 2012, a total of twenty-three primary schools were completed across the country, using what we term, the full contract mode. These translate into 115 classrooms and 115 teachers’ houses. The 115 classrooms have provided space for some 4600 pupils for single shift while the houses have provided decent accommodation …

The Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1257 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 4th December, 2012.

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