DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 5th December, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________ 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

RESIDENT HUNTING

The Minister of Tourism and Arts (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to present a ministerial statement to inform the House and the public on the topical subject of Resident Hunting in Zambia in view of the partial suspension. 

Sir, it is important to provide, from the outset, a brief background on the subject. 

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) Act No.12 of 1998, under Section 33, provides for different types of hunting licences that may be issued by ZAWA. These are as follows:

(i)    Resident Hunting Licence;

(ii)    Non-resident Hunting Licence, which is normally referred to as Safari Hunting;

(iii)    Bird Licence; and 

(iv)    Minister’s Special Licence.

Mr Speaker, the four categories of licences are issued by ZAWA with the local communities for purposes of hunting rights in game management areas (GMAs) and open areas across the country. However, hunting is not allowed in the national parks. It is important to note that ZAWA’s main source of income is from hunting activities. The various types of licences mentioned above are intended to generate income for ZAWA to be able to manage and conserve the national parks and GMAs which cover about 30 per cent of Zambia’s total land surface area. In addition, part of the money generated from GMAs is ploughed back into the local communities for developmental projects. 

Mr Speaker, of the four categories, the Minister’s Licence has not attracted any income as this has mainly been issued for traditional ceremonies or, indeed, any other national event, including independence celebrations or any function in national interest. In some incidences, this licence has been issued to individuals, for whatever reasons. Although no income has been earned from this category, ZAWA has had to incur costs involved in hunting animals for those groups issued with this licence. You will appreciate that once the Minister’s Licence is issued, it is ZAWA that has to go in the GMAs to hunt on behalf of that individual or, indeed, for the purpose that is national in interest.

Mr Speaker, the other category of hunting is Resident Hunting, which is sometimes referred to as Zambian Hunting because it is for Zambians and it attracts income for ZAWA. This licence can only be issued to Zambian citizens and established residents, meaning a foreigner who is working in Zambia, for example, at an embassy or multilateral corporation. In this regard, established resident means a foreigner who lives and works in Zambia on an employment permit. The animals hunted on a Resident Hunting Licence are meant for the pot, although they can also be sold by the licensee upon obtaining authority from ZAWA to sell game meat.

Mr Speaker, the Resident Hunting Licence is issued to the following categories of people:

(i)    citizens who live within the GMAs. This includes chiefs and their subjects; and

(ii)    citizens and established residents who reside outside the GMAs. 

Both categories of Resident Licences issued in this regard pay licence fees except that these are very low in comparison with the Non-resident Licence. However, the licence fees paid by established residents are normally slightly higher by 30 per cent, on average, than the fees paid by the typical citizen. It is important, at this stage, to note that fees generally paid for the Resident’s Hunting Licence are much lower by over 300 per cent, on average, compared to those paid by the Non-Resident or Safari Hunting.

Mr Speaker, the third category of hunting licences is called Non-Resident Hunting Licence commonly referred to as Safari Hunting Licence. This hunting licence is only issued to a client of a safari hunting company which is registered with ZAWA. The clients coming through these registered safari hunting companies can be Zambian, established or foreign established meaning not resident in Zambia. 

However, it is interesting to note that over 99 per cent of the clients that have been issued with this type of licence, through the registered safari hunting companies, have mainly been foreigners. This is because this type of licence is perceived to be expensive and exclusively for foreigners because the licence fees are, on average, more than 300 per cent higher than the Resident Hunting Licence fees. So, Zambians do not even venture into this category of hunting. Similarly, the residents who are here on work permit do not venture into it because they have the option of a cheaper Resident Hunting Licence. As an illustration, a Buffalo hunted on a Resident Hunting Licence would only cost K2.5 million which is less than the cost of a cow in Monze. However, the same buffalo will cost K8 million on the Non-Resident Hunting Licence.

Mr Speaker, as demonstrated, the Non Resident Hunting Licence gives more revenue to ZAWA and the local communities compared to the other categories of hunting licences such as the Resident Hunting Licence and the Minister’s Special Licence. In addition, safari hunting companies are also given an obligation to contribute to conservation efforts and community development projects. On the other hand, the people with Resident Hunters Licences have no obligation towards the management of wildlife and community projects. 

Mr Speaker, you can see that apart from getting these licences at very low fees, there is no obligation on those who obtain Resident Hunting Licences to do some community projects and participate in the management and conservation of the national parks were these GMAs are located, unlike their colleagues who have Non Resident Licences who have to do this.

Mr Speaker, it is important to state that the total number of animals which are allocated under the Resident Hunting Licence and the Non Resident Hunting Licence is usually the same. If you look at the data for the last ten years, people with the Resident Hunting Licence category have hunted more animals than the other category which is the Non-resident Hunting Licence category. Resident hunting, obviously, gives very little revenue. To illustrate this further, compared to the total number of animals hunted in the 2011 hunting season, 3,807 animals were hunted under the Resident Hunting Licence, while 2,468 were hunted under the Non-resident Licence. In terms of financial value, K2.1 billion was generated from Resident Hunting Licences, while K14.4 billion was gained from Non-resident Hunting Licences. Clearly, resident hunting does not promote conservation nor does it make any social or economic sense.

Mr Speaker, you may wish to know that resident hunting is conducted annually since the inception of ZAWA in 2000 through advertising in the public media and selection of successful applicants is done using raffle draws. In this respect, ZAWA management advertises and conducts the raffle to select successful hunters on 3rd November, 2012. However, in an as much as the Government would like Zambians to have access to their wildlife resources, the Government would like to take into account the following factors:

(i)conservation and good management of our wildlife resources for the people and future generations;

(ii)real benefit to the local communities by way of implementing some development projects for communal use;

(iii)revenue generation by the Government through ZAWA; and 

(iv)increase tourism activities which will result in employment creation and improved earnings for improved welfare and poverty reduction among our people.

Mr Speaker, any right thinking and well-meaning Zambian citizen will agree that what has been happening in the past, in terms of the administration of resident hunting, cannot and should not be allowed to continue under the Patriotic Front (PF) Administration, which promised better governance and real benefits to the Zambian people, especially the rural people. As I indicated earlier, the revenue from this category of hunting is not economic, considering the administration costs incurred by ZAWA.

Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Resident Hunting Licence has been abused. In many cases, hunters have ended up hunting more animals than what they have been allowed to hunt on a particular licence. This is because there are few ZAWA officers on the ground to effectively monitor the use of these licences. Furthermore, some resident hunters have resold their licences to foreigners for more money, hence depriving the Government of the much-needed revenue for effective wildlife management and conservation. This implies that more animals have been hunted under the resident hunting categories at very low prices to the extent of threatening the animal populations, and relatively fewer animals have been hunted under the Non-resident Hunting Licence. This unbalanced way of hunting encourages corruption in the entire business of resident hunting. This is a vice that must be arrested at all costs.

Mr Speaker, it is against this background that the Ministry of Tourism and Arts, through ZAWA, decided to partially suspend the granting of Resident Hunting Licences for the 2012 hunting season. At this juncture, allow me to state the Government’s concerns on the Resident Hunting Licences.

Mr Speaker, you are aware that ZAWA has been granting Resident Hunting Licences annually for the past twelve years of its existence. During this period, ZAWA has been in a critical financial position to the extent that it is unable to meet its statutory financial obligations, including failure to pay what is due to the communities in some cases. In fact, today, ZAWA has a staggering debt of about K2 trillion. It will be, therefore, irresponsible for the Ministry of Tourism and Arts and ZAWA to continue operating in a business-as-usual like manner at such great expense. In as much as we would like to have the people of Zambia have access to their wildlife resources, this scenario is not sustainable and should not be allowed to continue. This situation is what  has led the Government to partially suspend Resident Hunting Licences for the 2012 hunting season.

Mr Speaker, the reason for the partial suspension is the recognition of the contributions made by the local communities living in the GMAs in the conservation of wildlife. To this effect, the Government has allowed Resident Hunting Licences to be issued to Zambian citizens living in the GMAs. The licences are strictly being sold to the chiefs and their subjects residing within the GMAs. It must be made clear that what has been suspended is the extension of the issuance of Resident Hunting Licences to citizens and residents living outside the GMAs. However, citizens outside the GMAs are free to hunt under the Non-resident Hunting category of licences or through a registered safari hunting company. Nobody has been stopped from working for or forming a safari company.

Mr Speaker, during the partial suspension, resident hunters are free to hunt in the private game ranches throughout the country. The resident hunters residing in the GMAs have been advised that the Resident Hunting Licences issued to them cannot be resold and are  not transferable to foreigners or residents who are Zambian citizens residing outside the GMAs. Doing so will constitute a breach of the licence conditions and they risk having this privilege withdrawn from them. The point to note is that those residing outside the GMAs are catered for through the Non Resident Hunting Licences and, therefore, they cannot claim that they have not been catered for.

Mr Speaker, I wish to correct the misconception that the Non-resident Licence or Safari Hunting Licence is restricted to foreign hunters only. This licence is only referred to as Non-resident Hunting Licence due to the fact that the majority of people who hunt using this licence are foreigners who come to hunt animals for trophies which they export to their countries. All Zambians are also permitted to participate in hunting using the Non-resident Hunting Licence.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to assure the House that it is the Government’s conviction that this measure will go a long way in improving wildlife conservation and management. It will also reverse the negative international perception that the Zambian Government has continued to allow unsustainable utilisation of its wildlife. The Government will not continue to subsidise the rich hunters at the expense of the poor hunter who hunts only for consumption. In addition, the partial suspension of Resident Hunting Licences will also help the ministry to determine a sustainable way forward during the policy review process which is currently in progress. The continuation of the past way of implementing resident hunting will only serve to deplete the animal population, destroy and undermine the tourism industry, which largely depends on wildlife, and perpetuate poverty for the rural poor.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for her statement. The hon. Minister emphasized in her statement that all rightful thinking Zambians must think along the lines of her statement. I would like to state that I decline to think along the lines of her statement.

Sir, how can the hon. Minister compare, in volume terms, the quantities of animals which are hunted by the non-resident hunters or safari hunters to the activities of the many indigenous Zambians who also seek to make a living through this hunting process?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, allow me to be less technical so that my colleagues can understand and appreciate what I am trying to say.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the total number of animals which are allocated to the non-resident hunters are normally lower than those which are allocated to residents. For example, if non-residents are allocated 100 buffalos then residents would be allocated 200 buffalos. In terms of the value of the money collected, the total value collected from non-residents would be K10 million while that collected from residents would be K50 million. Further, the non-residents just hunt without any form of conservation or projects while the residents need to do some projects within the game areas. The residents need to participate in the conservation of the wildlife assets in the areas where they are hunting.

Sir, unfortunately, we are losing assets in a unplanned for manner because when you give hunters a license to hunt five animals they end up hunting ten. These are things that are happening on the ground. Those who have been in this business know that what I am saying is factual. If we are to continue doing things the same way, there will be no wildlife or tourism left in the next three years. 

Sir, Zambia has twenty national parks, yet only four of them can be considered to be real. You have heard hon. Members from both sides of the House complain about the depletion of wildlife. When I read out the policy statement for my ministry’s budget, I pleaded with the House to support my ministry in its quest to employ more wildlife officers because we do not have enough of them on the ground. The hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa, Brigadier- General Dr Chituwo can bear witness to the fact that a precious park has almost been depleted in his area. Serious measures have to be taken by the Government and the country to preserve our wildlife. My only interest is to serve this country. 

I thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister talked about the issuing of what seem to me like discriminatory hunting licenses in her statement. Does she not think that this kind of scenario will encourage the encroachment of the national parks like what we saw happening in the Kafue National Park? Is it not possible that those who have been directed to hunt through the safaris only when licensed will see their friends who live in the game management area (GMAs) freely hunting and will want to do the same?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the fact that the hon. Member for Luena may not have clearly understood my explanation. However, I hope that the hon. Members who are not clear about what I said can approach me so that I give them full information on what is being done.

Mr Speaker, as I earlier explained, there is already a bias that exists. I agree that this bias must not be allowed to continue. We need to have a simple and straightforward system so that we avoid corruption. There were problems in the hunting sector. We had to immediately stop the bleeding, but in stopping the bleeding abruptly we had to take those citizens that live in GMAs into account. We allowed those who live in GMAs to continue hunting because they live and depend on these animals. They have also been helping Government to conserve and manage these parks. This does not mean that the average hunter who stays in Lusaka cannot go and hunt, but it means that they will have to pay a price. 

However, paying the price does not guarantee an individual to an endless supply of animals. The hunting has to be managed. Statistics on how many animals there are need to be calculated. The hunting quotas can only be allocated after the counting takes place.  We have professionals who know how to count the population of animals. We do things that way in order to avoid hunting which will kill our wildlife asset. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me an opportunity to raise a very serious point of order pertaining to the procedures of this House and the way we are conducting the affairs of the this august House.

Mr Speaker, two days ago, the Secretary to the Cabinet issued a statement indicating that the Government has decided to realign the functions of the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. Members of staff have been transferred from the Ministry of Health to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

Mr Speaker, we are all aware that your Committee has been considering the Budget for 2013. It has already considered and passed the Budget for the Ministry of Health where it recommended to the House the allocation of salaries and other conditions of service for the Ministry of Health. This recommendation included the component of emoluments for those members of staff. The budget line for the Ministry of Health is known and is a consolidated figure. The figures for the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health have also been approved for recommendation to the House. 

Mr Speaker, that Government has made virements. The Government has moved votes from the Ministry of Health to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health before this august House passes the Budget. Is the Government in order to continue abrogating the regulations of this House? Are they in order to be doing things without the approval of this House? We recommended the budget for the Ministry of Health, but before we could go any further, they made virements without coming to this House for them to be effected. Are they going to make proposals to make amendments to the would-be Appropriation Bill? Will the Appropriation Bill take into account what they have done illegally? Are they in order to do things illegally without the approval of this House? I need your serious ruling over this matter.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Well, as I see it, we are in the process of considering the Budget in question. As you already indicated yourself, in your point of order, the culmination of that process is the passage of the Appropriation Act itself. However, in light of the observations that you have made and the actions that have been supposedly taken or at least announced by the Secretary to the Cabinet, I will request the hon. Minister of Health to issue a policy statement before the House actually approves the Appropriation Bill. That is my ruling. The hon. Member for Kalomo Central may continue.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has very clearly stated that she has no vested interest and I agree with her. I remember raising an issue regarding the ZAWA Act in this House. The ZAWA Act stipulates clearly that ZAWA’s day to day business shall be run by a board. The hon. Minister has further said that there are so many problems which she is trying to sort out. May I know why the hon. Minister has failed to put the board in place so that the actions she has been taking of canceling decisions abruptly can come to an end. Today, you allow people to bid and in the afternoon you reverse the statement. If it is a question of profitability, why not give the exact price and not the different prices such as K2.5 million and K8 million. Why is the hon. Minister failing to put the board in place so that we can clearly see that she has no vested interest in the hunting of animals?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I need to put this issue of the board to rest. Firstly, I want the hon. Member of Parliament, through you, to understand that even with an established board, the statutory function of implementing the Wildlife Policy is vested in the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts on behalf of the President of the Republic of Zambia and indeed, the nation. Any decision that management or indeed the board of ZAWA takes can be changed by the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts. 

Secondly, the hon. Member needs to appreciate the point that ZAWA is not the only board that I have under my jurisdiction. I have also the Zambia Tourism Board (ZTB). It is interesting to note that the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central has only been talking the ZAWA Board. You may wish to know that even the ZTB is no longer in operation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mrs Masebo: Sir, the ministry responsible for the tourism and arts portfolio follows certain processes. We do not just wake up and announce that certain people are members of a particular board. For people to be members of a board, they have to go through screening, clearance by the Office of the President (OP) office and finally, Cabinet. The hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central, in his last point of order actually, did say that the board was actually dissolved by the Cabinet. I want to tell this House, through the Speaker, that an hon. Minister who knows his or her functions cannot not dissolve a board without express approval from the Head of State. Any of the actions that I take which border on a Cabinet decision have to be cleared by the Head of State. So, just be comfortable. I know that the issue of hunting in Zambia has been a scam for many decades. Those who are in the hunting fraternity will tell you that what I am saying is true. I just want my colleagues to help me and not make my job difficult. They should not just be making insinuations. Today, you will have an hon. Minister who is straightforward being in charge of the tourism and arts portfolio. You might not have this same hon. Minister tomorrow you. 

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: Sir, I think that history has shown. If you recall, in 1992 or 1993, we had a Minister of Tourism then, who was fired because of issues to do with hunting. Let us not get used by people that may actually have vested interests. There is no decision that I have taken without the express approval of the President. I actually even consult other Cabinet Ministers including the Vice-President. So, there are no decisions I make on my own. I am very consultative. On top of that, I also consult associations which are more experienced than I am in handling issues to do with hunting. Sometimes, I even issue statements which come from experts. I do not just say things from nowhere. I make decisions based on my understanding of what is good for the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, it appears to me that the issuance of hunting licences has been quite an issue. It also gives me an impression that may be the revision of the fees has not been done for a long time. Do we see the hunting licence fees which are at K2 million plus being revised upwards so that perhaps, they can be equated to those which are paid by the non-resident hunters?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I will take advantage of this question to also clarify certain issues. The identification of board members for ZTB, ZAWA and other institution which you may not know about has already started. As I said, the names will pass through certain verification processes and will also need to be approved by Cabinet before the hon. Minister can announce them. You should not worry because the right things will be done.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Kalomo wanted to know why we have two different fees. I think he is right to an extent. Why do we have these two different fees? I want to say that this is what creates corruption. After finishing the revision of the Wildlife Act, Tourism Act and the entire Tourism Policy, we hope to come up with answers which will help us to come up with one system for hunting in Zambia. We are not going to continue having the dual system which just creates problems. To that effect, yes, the fees are going to be increased in due course. We will be issuing a Statutory Instrument to effect this increment so that our fees become similar to those charged in other countries within the region. We will also ensure that we are not above the regional average since we are still growing our tourism. We do not want to outgrow ourselves.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

I would urge the hon. Members to be direct in their questions and similarly, urge the hon. Minister to abbreviate her responses as well. I know that she is very passionate about the subject. 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, why are holders of employment permits put in the category of resident hunting, yet, in her statement, she indicated that these permits should not be transferred to foreigners because some Zambians sell them permits to foreigners who, in turn, develop their own countries. Does she understand that holders of employment permits are also foreigners?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, to an extent, the hon. Member is right, and that is why we are taking all these measures so that we do not have these descriptions that are neither here nor there.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr M.B. Mwale (Malambo): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that safari hunting in this country is dominated by a clique of Zambians of Asian origin who have set up multiple companies, and are openly boasting that their safari hunting licences will be renewed because they are the big sponsors of the PF Government …

Hon. PF Members: Question.

Mr M.B. Mwale: … and are openly going round the GMAs distributing PF party regalia?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of that. What I am aware of is with regard to the first part of the statement that Zambians of Indian origin are mainly the ones who have been interested in hunting. Zambians of Soli and Mfuwe origin do not seem to understand and appreciate these facilities. This is the reason I have been urging you to participate.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has justified her position on the basis of the non-economic base for ZAWA and informed us that she wants to find a sustainable way forward. However, she has not told us the strategic policy interventions that she wants to put in place in order to realise a sustainable way forward. What are these strategic policy interventions that she is envisaging?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the PF Government is very clear on issues of tourism and wildlife. It is one sector in which its manifesto properly and clearly articulates a vision in terms of the development agenda. That is this sector has gained prominence and received a lot of interest from not only the Ruling Party, but also hon. Opposition Members, and the country at large. If I am to be generous, and considering that he is my special partner, I will say that …

Interruptions

Mrs Masebo: … we are looking at the deployment of more ZAWA officers on the ground to curb all these irregularities and establishment of Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) in the management of wildlife. We are also looking at the whole ZAWA, and this is why we have started the process of policy consultation to find out whether we are happy with the agency in its current form or if it needs to be reformed. These are very important policy decisions that need to be made, and that is why some of the actions are being taken in mid-stream so that we do not lose the animals in our parks by the time we conclude.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, maybe, I missed the answer, but it would help if the hon. Minister could clearly tell us what was wrong with the board that was appointed by her predecessor, the former hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts, who is also from the PF Government, because I believe that that is what is bringing the suspicions. I believe that it would actually help if the hon. Minister gave us an answer on that.

Ms Masebo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very interesting question. One who appoints does not give any reason for appointing or disappointing. Even as an hon. Minister, you can be appointed at the pleasure of the President and be disappointed. In the same vein, boards are appointed at the pleasure of an hon. Minister.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Chairperson, coming from a constituency that has a GMA and a national park, I share the concerns of the hon. Minister on the depletion of wildlife.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Pande: Does the hon. Minister realise that even the hunting safaris are contributing to the depletion of the animals? Is she thinking of going through with the creation of game ranches, instead of a few individuals having large chunks of land for a hunting safari? Those chunks of land can be demarcated into 5000 or smaller chunks and turned into game ranches. That would multiply the number of wildlife.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, that is well-spoken by the former hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts. In fact, that is the direction that we will be taking. I hope that, when we begin this policy dialogue, he will come through to assist us with his suggestions. However, as the PF Government, that is the direction we are taking, hence, we are currently taking these steps so that we do not lose out on the depletion.

Laughter

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

___________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ACCESS ROADS TO NAKABUNZE HARBOUR

285. Mr Njeulu (Sinjembela) asked the Vice President:

(a)    whether the Government was aware that there was a looming danger of Shangombo, Sioma and parts of Nalolo districts being cut off from the rest of the country due to the heavy rains;

(b)    if so, what measures were being taken to ensure that the districts at (a) were not cut off from the rest of the country; and 

(c)    whether the construction of access roads to Nakabunze Habour and procurement of a pontoon engine were some of the options being considered as a matter of urgency.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Kalaba): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware, from past experience, of the danger of Shang’ombo, Sioma and parts of Nalolo districts being cut off from the rest of the country when the area experiences heavy rains. This is caused by the flooding of the Barotse Flood Plains, which is an annual occurrence.

Mr Speaker, the Government, in the interim, intends to re-locate the crossing point of Kalongola to Sioma. An area 34km on the eastern side of Zambezi River from Senanga along the new road and 50km on the western side of Zambezi River along the old Kalongola Road, which does not get flooded during the rainy season, has been identified for this purpose. The proposed crossing point is 5.3km off the new Senanga-Sesheke Road and 1.2km off the old road on the Shang’ombo side. 
 
Mr Speaker: Order, on my right!

I can see that the hon. Deputy Minister is complaining. He is gesturing to me that he cannot respond properly because of his colleagues on the right.

Mr Kalaba: The re-location of the pontoon to the new site will make this road accessible throughout the year. In the long-term, the Government intends to construct the Maziba Bridge for which the works have been tendered and the contractor has taken site.

Mr Speaker, the construction of the access road to Nakabunze Harbour, on both sides of the crossing point, is necessary. The survey has been done and the procurement of a pontoon engine is an option as the current one has had frequent breakdowns.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Njeulu: Mr Speaker, when, exactly, will the pontoon engines be procured and the construction of the access road commence? Currently, the situation is worsening.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, the sooner he passes the Budget, the sooner it will happen. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Laughter

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, the movement of the pontoon from Kalongola to Nakabunze is just for the purpose of ensuring that the planes they use between Senanga and Shang’ombo are no longer utilised. Why does this Government not rehabilitate the bridges that connect Sioma and Shang’ombo districts and Nalolo, which are in a deplorable state, because this is where the link should be? 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we would be getting into a very technical discussion if I were to attempt to answer this question in any degree of detail. I do not know the geography of the western side of the Zambezi River well enough to give an intelligent or useful answer. Therefore, if the hon. Member would care to come and speak to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), ... 

Hon. Opposition Member interjected.

The Vice-President: … he can find out the actual plans and what is under scrutiny. I am not the Director of the DMMU. This is an invitation for him to come over and enquire. I will also try and get copies to all hon. Members of Parliament, with your indulgence, Sir, before we rise, of the 2012/2013 Contingency Plan, which covers flooding and droughts, among other disasters. 

I thank you, Sir. 

FIFA FUNDS TO FAZ

286. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Youth and Sport:
(a)    whether the Federation of International Football Associations had sent any funds to the Football Association of Zambia for the following programmes:

(i)Purchase of footballs and football attire for various football clubs; and

(ii)construction of football grounds; and 

    (b)    if so, how often the funds were sent. 

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Mubukwanu): Mr Speaker, as I answer this question, I would like to take advantage of this opportunity to confirm the Ministry of Youth and Sport’s invitation to the hon. Members of Parliament to tour the venues for the Zone Six Games. We appeal to you to be punctual. Snacks will be served at the pool side. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubukwanu: Mr Speaker, the Federation of International Football Associations (FIFA) does not send any money to the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) or various clubs for the purchase of attire or footballs or construction of football grounds. However, I would like to state that FAZ has benefited from the FIFA GOAL Project, which resulted in the construction of the Football House along Alick Nkhata Road, the Technical Centre next to Olympic Youth Development Centre (OYDC) and the artificial turf at the old Independence Stadium. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, how much money do we pay to FIFA for affiliation?   

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili): Mr Speaker, to avoid the risk of misleading the House, I will come back with the exact figure because I do not have it now.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I am aware that the youths of Mongu Central used to benefit from the Ministry of Youth and Sport in the past years by the provision of footballs and netballs. Will they and youths in other constituencies benefit ...

Mr Kakoma: And Luanshya!   

Mr Mwiimbu: … and Luanshya, I hear, from the provision of footballs and other sport equipment in 2013? 

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, this Government believes in accountability. The programme of distributing jerseys and footballs is a scandal. I know, for sure, that many hon. Members of Parliament did not get these things last year because most of them were given based on political patronage. The replica jersey for the Zambian National Team which was bought was only in three colours and very poor quality, yet the cost incurred is unbelievably high. We are, therefore, evaluating the whole programme so that we can get things that will stand the test of time. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

______ 

BILLS

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

THE MEDICAL LEVY (Repeal) BILL, 2012

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill. 

Title agreed to. 

THE MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT (Amendment) BILL, 2012

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill. 

Title agreed to. 

THE PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2012

Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 6 − (Insertion of new section 12A Double Taxation Agreements and Mutual Assistance in Tax Matters)

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 6, on page 5, 

(a)     in the marginal note by the deletion of the marginal note and the substitution therefor of the following marginal note:

    “Tax information exchange agreements and mutual assistance in tax matters”; and

(b)in lines 3 to 24

by the deletion of subsection (1) and the substitution therefor of the following new subsection:

“(1)    The President may enter into an agreement, which may have retrospective effect, with the Government of any other country or territory for the exchange of information on tax matters or for mutual assistance in tax matters with the objective of rendering reciprocal assistance in the − 

(a)provision of data on fraud, civil and criminal tax offences;

(b)administration and collection of taxes under the property transfer tax laws of the Republic and such other country or territory;

(c)carrying out of tax examinations in Zambia or abroad; and

(d)carrying out of simultaneous or joint tax examinations”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 6, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

__________{mospagebreak}

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Medical Levy (Repeal) Bill, 2012

The Mines and Minerals Development (Amendment) Bill

Third Readings on Friday, 7th December, 2012.

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendment:

The Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2012

Report Stage, on Thursday, 6th December, 2012.

___________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

VOTE 80/16 − (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education − Regional Headquarters − Central Province − K18,519,685,222).

(Consideration resumed)

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, thank you, …

Hon. Members: Order! 

Sit down.

Dr Chikusu crossed the Floor.

Mr Lufuma: … may I have clarification on Programme 5001 − General Administration, Programme 5003 − Capital Buildings, Programme 5005 − Grants to Institutions − Operational, Programme 5011 − Infrastructure Development, Programme 5018 − Curriculum Development and Education Materials, Programme 5019 − Distance Education and Open Learning, Programme 5021 − Equity, Programme 5043 − Standards and Assessments, Programme 5044 − Teacher Education and Specialised Services and Programme 9000 − Early Childhood and Primary Education. I would like to know whether the ministry has discontinued these activities as there are no allocations for 2013.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Chairperson, like I said yesterday on a number of activities relating to these programmes, let me just provide some budget clarity. Most of the allocations to the districts would be in the form of grants. Therefore, if you look at activities like Curriculum Development and Education Materials, Distance Education and Open Learning, including Teacher Education and Specialised Services, they have been budgeted for under an activity which is on Programme 9000 − Early Childhood and Primary Education, Activity 700 − Grants to District Education Boards. So, all the activities in the district will be undertaken under the grant which is allocated to the districts.

Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/16, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/17 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Basic Schools – Central Province – K379,146,139,647).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)    Under 02 Serenje District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K58,907,558,523 and the substitution therefor of K58,907,558,522;

(ii)    Under 03 Mumbwa District, Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,406,788,507 and the substitution therefor of K1,406,788,508;

(iii)    Under 05 Mkushi District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K43,322,748,755 and the substitution therefor of K43,322,748,754; and

(iv)    Under 36 Itezhi-tezhi District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K22,594,005,450 and the substitution therefor of K22,594,005,499.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/17 as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Can I appeal to those on my right to, please, give me time. You are distracting my attention.

Mr Nkombo: Just send them out, Sir.

VOTE 80/18 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – High School – Central Province – K61,065,154,123).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)    Under 01 High Schools – Central Province, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K57,336,640,864 and the substitution therefor of K57,336,640,865; and

(ii)    Under 01 High Schools – Central Province, Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of Programme Total K3,728,513,258 and the substitution therefor of K3,728,513,259.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/18, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/19 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Teacher Education – Central Province K12,836,491,547).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)    Under 01 Malcom Moffat Teacher Training College, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,181,062,671 and the substitution therefor of K4,181,062,672.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5001, 5005 to 5021, Activity 003, which have no allocations in next year’s Budget. I realise that under this Vote, the hon. Minister , when responding to previous questions on the same , said that there is a block figure. Why did they have to move away from activity-based budgeting to a block figure?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Chairperson, it is still an activity-based Budget. We are trying to reform the Budget for the ministry. As hon. Members of Parliament are aware, it is too huge a booklet so we are trying to make it leaner. However, in terms of the activities that are supposed to be funded, these will remain with the spending institutions under the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. What we would be providing is a grant, of course, but the activities will still remain the same in those institutions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, I quite understand the hon. Minister’s response, but I would like to seek guidance from the hon. Minister. How, then, will the heads of departments in a district know their allocations if the money allocated to them is in a block figure?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba: Mr Chairperson, as the hon. Member is aware, this Yellow Book is for the entire country, including District Education Board Secretary offices and other institutions. So, they will know that there is grant but, when the grant is remitted to the districts and the various institutions, they will be guided by our accounts office, on how this money is going to be spent on the activities.

I thank you, Sir.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/19, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/20 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Regional Headquarters – Northern Province – K16,611,327,410).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)    Under 01 Provincial Education Office – Northern Province, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K7,508,366,189 and the substitution therefor of K7,508,366,190;

(ii)    Under 01 Provincial Education Office – Northern Province, Programme: 5001 General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,617,564,740 and the substitution therefor of K1,617,564,742;

(iii)    Under 01 Provincial Education Office – Northern Province, Programme: 5011 Infrastructure Development, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,247,895,967 and the substitution therefor of K1,247,895,968;

(iv)    Under 01 Provincial Education Office – Northern Province, Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of Programme Total K98,305,855 and the substitution therefor of K98,305,854;

(v)    Under 01 Provincial Education Office – Northern Province, Programme: 5043 Standards and Assessment, by the deletion of Programme Total K327,686,183 and the substitution therefor of K327,686,182; and

(vi)    Under 01 Provincial Education Office – Northern Province, Programme: 5044 Teacher Education and Specialised Services, by the deletion of Programme Total K196,611,710 and the substitution therefor of K196,611,709.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly

Vote 80/20, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/21 (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Basic Schools – Northern Province – K325,240,706,312).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)    Under 01 Mungwi District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K41,081,000,904 and the substitution therefor of K41,081,000,906;

(ii)    Under 02 Mbala District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K62,919,757,877 and the substitution therefor of K62,919,757,878;

(iii)    Under 04 Mporokoso District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K31,186,706,122 and the substitution therefor of K31,186,706,123;

(iv)    Under 11 Luwingu District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programme Total K35,844,448,175 and the substitution therefor of K35,844,448,176; and

(v)Under 13 Nsama District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K16,200,080,457 and the substitution therefor of K16,200,080,458.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/21, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/22 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – High Schools – K46,210,960,499).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment

    Under 01 High Schools – Northern Province, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K42,842,265,070 and the substitution therefor of K42,842,265,071.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/22, as amended ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/23 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Teacher Education – Northern Province – K7,844,918,625).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under 01 Kasama Teacher Training College, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K6,841,036,804 and the substitution therefor of K6,841,036,805.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/23, as amended ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/25 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Basic Schools – Western Province – K274,059,755,779).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)under 02 Senanga District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K42,098,166,796 and the substitution therefor of K42,098,166,797;

(ii)under 03 Kaoma District, Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K1,139,373,963 and the substitution therefor of K K1,139,373,964;

(iii)under 04 Kalabo District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K40,908,702,106 and the substitution therefor of K40,908,702,107;

(iv)under 04 Kalabo District, Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K890,954,065 and the substitution therefor of K890,954,066;

(v)under 05 Mongu District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K51,467,030,952 and the substitution therefor of K51,467,030,953;

(vi)under 07 Lukulu District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K27,877,136,619 and the substitution therefor of K27,877,136,620;

(vii)under 07 Lukulu District, Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K867,778,301 and the substitution therefor of K867,778,302; 

(viii)under 08 Mulobezi District, Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K800,050,347 and the substitution therefor of K800,050,348;

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/25, as amended, ordered stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/26 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – High Schools – Western Province – K47,210,525,896).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)under 01 High Schools – Western Province, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K44,270,589,432 and the substitution therefore of K44,270,589,430; and

(ii)under 01 High Schools – Western Province, Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of Programme Total K2,939,936,464 and the substitution therefore of K2,939,936,465.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/26, as amended, ordered stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/27 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Teacher Education – Western Province – K6,205,773,947).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment under 01 Mongu Teacher Training College, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K5,246,171,196 and the substitution therefore of K5,246,171,195.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/27, as amended, ordered stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/28 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Regional Headquarters – Eastern Province – K15,545,342,478).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)under 01 Provincial Education Office – Eastern Province, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programme Total K6,770,372,479 and the substitution therefor of K6,770,372,480;

(ii)under 01 Provincial Education Office – Eastern Province, Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of the Programme Total K96,497,518 and the substitution therefor of K96,497,519;

(iii)under 01 Provincial Education Office – Eastern Province, Programme: 5044 Teacher Education and Specialised Services, by the deletion of the Programme Total K192,995,036 and the substitution therefor of K192,995,035.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/28, as amended, ordered stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/29 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Basic Schools – Eastern Province – K286,464,427,062).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)under 05 Lundazi District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K43,857,662,371 and the substitution therefor of K43,857,662,372;

(ii)under 07 Nyimba  District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K23,835,119,606 and the substitution therefor of K23,835,119,607;

(iii)under 08 Petauke District Education Board, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K26,781,345,119 and the substitution therefor of K26,781,345,118; and

(iv)under 10 Vubwi District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of the Programmes Total K11,365,986,525 and the substitution therefor of K11,365,986,524.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/29, as amended, ordered stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/30 ordered stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/31 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Teacher Education – Eastern Province – K6,508,805,584).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment under 01 Chipata Teacher Training College, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K5,544,108,794 and the substitution therefor of K5,544,108,795.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/31, as amended, ordered stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/32 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Regional Headquarters – Luapula Province – K12,824,209,440).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)under 01 Provincial Education Office – Luapula Province, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K5,503,038,530 and the substitution therefor of K5,503,038,529;

(ii)under 01 Provincial Education Office – Luapula Province, Programme: 5001 General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,449,590,625 and the substitution therefor of K1,449,590,626;

(iii)under 01 Provincial Education Office – Luapula Province, Programme: 5011 Infrastructure Development, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,125,562,297 and the substitution therefor of K1,125,562,299;

(iv)under 01 Provincial Education Office – Luapula Province, Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of Programme Total K92,172,281 and the substitution therefor of K92,172,280; and

(v)under 01 Provincial Education Office – Luapula Province, Programme: 5044 Education and Specialised Services, by the deletion of Programme Total K184,344,561 and the substitution therefor of K184,344,560.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/32, as amended, ordered stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/33 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Basic Schools – Luapula Province – K227,259,482,408).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)under 01 Samfya District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K46,466,015,078 and the substitution therefor of K46,466,015,077;

(ii)under 02 Mwense District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K43,321,578,351 and the substitution therefor of K43,321,578,352;

(iii)under 03 Mwansa District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K40,815,371,921 and the substitution therefor of K40,815,371,922;

(iv)under 06 Chienge District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K24,395,681,456 and the substitution therefor of K24,395,681,457;

(v)under 08 Chembe District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K905,965,414 and the substitution therefor of K905,965,413;

(vi)under 09 Lunga District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K905,965,414 and the substitution therefor of K905,965,413;

(vii)under 10 Chipili District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K905,965,414 and the substitution therefor of K905,965,413;

(viii)under 10 Mwansabombwe District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K905,965,414 and the substitution therefor of K905,965,413;

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/33, as amended, ordered stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/34 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – High Schools – Luapula Province – K71,840,387,296).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment under 01 High Schools - Programme: 5021 Equity, by the deletion of Programme Total K3,182,693,310 and the substitution therefor of K3,182,693,311.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/34, as amended, ordered stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/36 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Regional Headquarters – North-Western Province - K13,094,272,292).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg move the following amendment under 01 Provincial Educational Office – North Western Province, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,234,247,039 and the substitution therefor of K4,234,247,040.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/36, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/37 - (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Basic Schools – North-Western Province – K182,669,835,485).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)Under 01 Solwezi District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of programme Total K40,420,842,704 and the substitution therefor of K40,420,842,703;

(ii)Under 04 Kabompo District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K28,632,780,025 and the substitution therefor of K28,632,780,024; and

(iii)Under 07 Zambezi District, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K24,391,984,080 and the substitution therefor of K24,391,984,079.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5005, Activity 035 – Grants to Basic Education – Nil. An amount of K960,772,142 was allocated for in the 2012 Budget. Why is there no provision in the 2013 Budget?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5005, Activity 035 – Grants to Basic Education – Nil has been reconstituted as grants to free primary education. The allocation is K759,071,484.

Thank you, Sir.

Vote 80/37, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/38 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – High Schools – North-Western Province – K76,212,114,259).

Mr Mulusa: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5001 – General Administration. There are no allocations to all the activities under this programme. May I know if the activities have been reconstituted elsewhere or you have just discontinued these them.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Chairperson, the allocation to the activities in question has been reconstituted and will be given as grants to special schools and secondary schools.

Thank you, Sir.

Vote 80/38 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/39 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Teacher Education – North-Western Province – K9,720,456,815).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment under 01 Solwezi Teacher Training College, Programme: 5000 personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K8,743,209,348 and the substitution therefor of K8,743,209,347.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5021, Activity 001 – Gender and Equity – Nil and Activity 003 – HIV/AIDS Impact Mitigation – Nil and on Programme 5044, Activity 006 – Monitoring of Student Teachers – Nil and Activity 010 – Student Teaching Practice – Nil. Why is the reason for the omission for next year’s provision in the above mentioned activities?

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Professor Willombe): Mr Chairperson, the allocation to Programme 5044 has been moved to Programme 5021. Similarly, the allocation to the activities which were under Programme 5021 this year has been moved move elsewhere.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, since this is a lump sum as opposed to itemised lines, I would like to find out the portions which will go to the items which are indicated in the 2012 Budget, but not in the 2013 Budget.

The Chairperson: I thought that is what the hon. Minister said.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Chairperson, there will be work plans which will guide the spending agencies within the ministry. The actual details will be indicated in the work plans.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa: Thank you, Chair. This time around, I would like a more helpful answer …

The Chairperson: Order!

I heard the hon. Member yesterday and today addressing the Chairperson as Chair. Please, address the Chairperson, properly.

You can continue.

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: My apologies, Mr Chairperson. On Page 1333, there is a series of activities which qualify this budget as being activity based and have been discontinued. I am sure the answer from the hon. Minister will be that they are under a particular line, most probably, grants to colleges of education. Some of these activities have been referred to primary schools, others to secondary schools, others to teacher retention and others to policy management.  May I know why certain activities have been discontinued? Where exactly have they been taken to? Let the hon. Minister indicate the page number so that I follow because I need to explain these things to the people when I go back to Solwezi.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Chairperson, under Solwezi Teachers’ College, all the activities based on the 2012 Budget for the 2013 Budget have been amalgamated and provided for under Programme 5021, Activity 702 – Grants to Colleges of Education (1) (2) – K977,247,467. Hon. Mulusa can go to page 1234 and find this information on Solwezi Teachers’ Education. All the activities that they will undertake in 2013 will be governed by this grant.

Thank you, Sir.

Vote 80/39 is ordered to part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/40 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Regional Headquarters – Southern Province – K14,156,004,514).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(a)Under 01: Provincial Education Office – Southern Province, Programme 5001: General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,637,753,404 and substitution therefor of K1,637,753,403;

(b)Under 01: Provincial Education Office – Southern province, Programme 5043: Standards and Assessment, by the deletion of Programme Total K300,006,318 and the substitution therefor of K300,006,319; and

(c)Under 01: Provincial Education Office – Southern Province, Programme 5044: Teacher Education, by the deletion of Programme Total K225,004,738 and the substitution therefor of K225,004.739.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/40, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/41 – (Ministry Of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Basic Schools – Southern Province – K370,730,009,808).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(a)under 01: Choma District, Programme 500: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K70,957,915,003 and the substitution therefor of K70,957,915,004;

(b)under 02: Gwembe District, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K21,992,749,728 and the substitution therefor of K21,992,749,727;

(c)under 02: Gwembe District, Programme 021: Equity, by the deletion of Programme Total K586,449,809 and the substitution therefor of K586,449,810;

(d)under 05: Kazungula District, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K24,145,160,915 and the substitution therefor of K24,145,160,914;

(e)under 06: Livingstone District, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K37,843,457,398 and the substitution therefor of K37,843,457,399;

(f)under 06: Livingstone District, Programme 5021: Equity, by the deletion of Programme Total K602,172,712 and the substitution therefor of K602,172,713;

(g)under 35: Pemba District, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K890,889,011 the substitution therefor of K890,889,010; and

(h)under 36: Chikankanta District, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K890,889,011 and the substitution therefor of K890,889,010

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/41, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/42 – ((Ministry Of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – High Schools – Southern Province – K85,423,577,771).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under 01: High Schools – Southern Province, Programme 5021: Equity, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,303,827,557 and the substitution therefor of K4,303,827,556.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/42, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/43 – (Ministry Of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Teacher Education – Southern Province – K12,839,748,880).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under 02: Charles Lwanga Teacher Training College, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,282,480,619 and the substitution therefor of K4,282,480,618.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/43, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Mr Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1610 hours until 1630 hours.{mospagebreak}

[THE CHAIRPERSON in the 
Chair]

Vote 80/44 is ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/46 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Department of Planning and Development – K88,585,111,825).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(a)under 06: Projects, Programme 5011: Infrastructure Development, Activity 078: Luanshya Institutions (Merger), by the deletion of K4,500,000,000 and the substitution therefor of K3,500,000,000;

(b)under 06: Projects, Programme 5011: Infrastructure Development, Activity 091: Kaoma Trades Training Institute, by the deletion of K2,500,000,000 and the substitution therefor of K1,500,000,000; and

(c)under 06: Projects, Programme 5011: Infrastructure Development, Activity 700: Mwense Trades Training Institute, by the deletion of K200,000,000 and the substitution therefor of K2,200,000,000.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/46, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/47 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Regional Headquarters – Muchinga Province – K12, 068,113,122).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

under 01: Regional Headquarters, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,167,360,968 and the substitution therefor of K4,167,360,969.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/47, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/48 – (Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education – Basic Schools – Muchinga Province – K227,153,395,811).

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(a)under 01: Chinsali District, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K66,544,489,747 and the substitution therfor  of K66,544, 489,746;

(b)under 04: Mpika District, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K52, 133,922,736 and the substitution therefor of K52,133,922,737; and

(c)under 06: Chama District, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K29,922,245,335 and the substitution therefor of K29,922,245,334.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 80/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 77 – (Ministry of Defence – K2,057,648,621,072).

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mwamba): Mr Chairperson, it is my honour and privilege to stand before this August House ...

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Let there be order at the back.

Mr Mwamba: … to present the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Ministry of Defence for 2013.

Mr Chairperson, before I proceed with my ministerial policy statement, let me take this opportunity to thank the people of the North-Western Province for the overwhelming support they gave to the PF Government, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mwamba: … which they demonstrated through the election of Hon. Masumba in the last by-election.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, that was not only a victory for the PF but, more importantly, for the people of North-Western Province who voted for a party that is there to deliver development in many aspects of their socio-economic welfare.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, allow me to express my gratitude to the hon. Minister of Finance, Mr Alexander Bwalya Chikwanda, for delivering a progressive and promising 2013 Budget.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, my ministry’s budget includes issues that are pertinent to the PF Government’s manifesto, as far as improvement of the standards of our defence forces is concerned. It is a budget that has taken care of issues that are cardinal in the sustenance of morale among the defence personnel. 

Sir, the mission statement for the Ministry of Defence is, ‘To preserve, protect and defend the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic of Zambia in order to maintain peace and security for all its citizens and residents, and contribute to national development’.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, my ministry had an approved budget of K1,792,878,697,647 in 2012. In line with our mandate, I wish to report to this August House that under the 2012 budget, the following achievements were attained:

(a)acquisition and upgrading of equipment for the defence forces;

(b)continuous training and skills upgrading of personnel;

(c)construction of housing units for our military personnel;

(d)conducted operations in all border areas;

(e)conducted internal joint operations with other security wings;

(f)promoted defence and security cooperation with neighbouring countries through the Joint Permanent Commission. (JPC);

(g)conducted air surveillance operations countrywide;

(h)contributed to national food security through the cultivation of 1,201 hectares countrywide;

(i)carried out various civil engineering works whenever the defence required to;

(j)participated in peace-keeping operations under the auspices of the United Nations (UN), African Union (AU) and the Southern African Development Community (SADC); and 

(k)undertook implemented infrastructure development projects countrywide.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry’s budget for 2013 is K2,057,648,621,072. This represents an increase of 14.8 per cent over the budget for 2012. Seventy-nine per cent of this amount will go towards personal emoluments while the remaining 21 per cent will be spent on recurrent departmental charges (RDC) and capital projects. The following are the ministry’s areas of focus:

(a)infrastructure development and rehabilitation;

(b)plant and equipment procurement and repair;

(c)recruitment and training of personnel;

(d)procurement of uniforms;

(e)recapitalisation of defence industries, two of which are Mupepetwe and Zam Capital;

(f)debt management;

(g)youth skills training; and

(h)personnel-related claims.

The ministry has the challenge to cover these critical needs with the 21 per cent of the budget Estimate.

Mr Chairperson, having given an overview, I beg your pardon …

Interruptions

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, let me repeat that. Having given an overview of the funding to my ministry, I will now highlight salient features for the 2013 Ministry of Defence budget under the PF Government, and the able leadership of His Excellency, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, the President of the Republic of Zambia, and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Infrastructure Development

Mr Chairperson, in 2007, the ministry purchased a structure in Ndola for the proposed Northern Command Hospital, whose purpose is to improve access to quality medical service delivery for our military personnel in the country.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwamba: However, owing to erratic funding, the project stalled. In cognisance of the PF Government’s desire to undertake infrastructure development, we have provided K10.3 billion in the budget for 2013 for completion and operations of the Northern Command Hospital.

Youth Skills Training Programme.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry, in conjunction with the Ministry of Youth and Sport has started training 550 youths at the ZNS in Chiwoko and Kitwe. Of this number, 350 are boys while 200 are girls. This programme will be for eighteen months and it is expected to end by May, 2014. After completing the programme, the trained youths will be handed over to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health so that they can benefit from the Youth empowerment Fund. At the ZNS Camp in Chiwoko, the youths are being trained in general agriculture, automotive mechanics, bricklaying and plastering, plumbing and sheet metal. The youth at the Zambia National Service, Kitwe Camp are trained in general agriculture, bricklaying and plastering, catering, tailoring and designing and shoe making. 

Mr Chairperson, my ministry is determined to ensure that there is food security in the nation. The Zambia National Service Land Development Branch (LBD) will continue to contribute towards this effort through the construction and rehabilitation of feeder roads, bridges and other infrastructure that supports agriculture. In addition, the ZNS has continued maintaining the tradition of full involvement in food production. We have, therefore, provided for the recruitment of personnel in the three Defence Services. Through this exercise, my ministry hopes to improve personnel strength and also contribute to the much-needed employment.

In terms of personal emoluments, as mentioned earlier, 79 per cent of our Budget is committed to personal emoluments. This has gone up from the 2012 provision owing to the 15 per cent salary increase awarded to all Public Service personnel in April, 2012 and also incorporates the planned recruitment in the three Defence Services in 2013. 

Mr Chairperson, this is in line with the PF’s long-term goal of putting more money in people’s pockets and reducing the levels of unemployment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, my ministry is concerned about the situation at Mulungushi Textiles in Kabwe which has remained closed for some time now. Currently, the Government is a minority shareholder. Notwithstanding this, my ministry has engaged the majority shareholders with a view to finding an amicable solution to this unfortunate situation.

Mr Chairperson, I will be failing in my duties if I do not commend our gallant men and women in uniform for their exemplary conduct in the discharge of duty. I urge the Zambia Defence Forces personnel to remain steadfast and loyal to the Government of the day.

Sir, in conclusion, my ministry shall, with the available resources, continue to fulfill its mandate of defending the country’s sovereignty and territorial integrity effectively and efficiently and contribute to the empowerment of unemployed youth by building capacity through skills training. 

Mr Chairperson, I would, therefore, like to call upon the hon. Members of this august House to fully and unanimously support my ministry’s budget estimates for 2013 as presented.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to debate the policy statement on the Ministry of Defence. I would like to make a few remarks in response to the statement that the hon. Minister has just delivered.

Sir, firstly, times have changed since we attained our Independence in 1964. Some of us were not born by then …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I apologise for disturbing my younger brother but, I think, this point of order is very important. Allow me to read an excerpt from the Zambia Daily Mail Volume 16, No. 285 of Tuesday, 4th December, 2012. The headline reads, ‘Sata Warns against Corruption’. The rest of the article reads: 

“PRESIDENT Sata has said political affiliation will not save any person linked to graft.”

“The PF administration will not spare anyone or relent in devising strategies and enacting laws that will ensure eradication of corruption, President Sata said.”

“He said, anyone found wanting will be severely dealt with in accordance with the law.”

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: The President restated that there would be no sacred cows in his administration and any person suspected to have broken the law will be dealt with by the law regardless of their political affiliation.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I totally support the President. Unfortunately, on the same page, another article appeared with the headline, ‘Kabimba Wants Supporters at ACC Inquiry’.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Shame!

Mr Muntanga: Sir, the story reads:

“MINISTER of Justice Wynter Kabimba yesterday refused to be interviewed by Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) officers in a room which could only accommodate three people and demanded that a boardroom be used for interrogation.”

Sir, Hon. Kabimba then said:

“There is nothing confidential ... you have already told the people that you are investigating me for corruption. What you haven’t told them is what you have established, he said.”

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Justice is the custodian of the justice system in Zambia. He is the person who should give us the confidence to know that what the President says about corruption will be upheld. He is the person who should show respect to the wings of Government, especially those that are against corruption which he must protect. The hon. Minister wants the investigation revealed even before it is concluded, which sounds like intimidation

Mr Chairperson, Is the hon. Minister of Justice in order to behave in the way he did against investigating officers as a Minister of Justice and custodian of the justice system? This Government should show seriousness against such behavior so that we have confidence in it. 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Let me seize the opportunity of this point of order to remind us on when points of order are relevant. A point of order must be:

    (a)    on procedure. Procedure is defined as the way of doing things, or the order by which things are done;

    (b)    decorum; and

    (c)    relevance to what is under discussion.

These are the three main areas where points of order are entertained.

The point of order raised by Hon. Muntanga, important as it may be, does not fall in any one of the three categories that I have described. I say important as it may be because, if I say important as it is, I may be passing judgment. 

However, there are other channels through which important questions like that can be raised and that is through a substantive question or under the provision of an urgent nature. This issue may cause me to interpret the law and that would be beyond the jurisdiction of what I am supposed to do because the legislator makes the law. Interpretation of the law falls under the judiciary. Therefore, I am not able to make a ruling in both aspects. What I can advise you to do is put it as a substantive question of an urgent nature or it can be taken before the courts of law for interpretation.

Mr Belemu: Mr Chairperson, I was underscoring the point that the world has now changed. The era of the cold wars, liberation struggles in the region and communist one-party states is gone and many other changes have taken place. In my understanding, this demands that we also modernise ourselves, including our defence establishments and systems. As a country, we must move away from the stage of the state of emergency when our defence systems where considered as potential weapons of oppression against fellow citizens. 

In that regard, I want to appeal to the hon. Minister and the Government, as we move forward, particularly in the subsequent budgets, to have very clear policy statements on how we are going to modernise our defence systems. I am sure that so many things have happened which warrant improvement. This also calls for modernising not only the training in our defence forces but also the level of efficiency of different capacities and the equipment that we have as a country. 

Sir, the definition of a terrorist in 1964 is different from that for today. In those days, one would be considered a terrorist when he/she was a freedom fighter. In modern times, a terrorist can be a member of this House and even be a professor or doctor. Therefore, it means that our defence must also be modernised and match up to these challenges. It is important to note that even within the region, there are many things that have happened. At one time, we were the only independent country and we were helping our colleagues in the liberation struggles. In modern times, those things are over. Those countries that we were trying to help liberate are now independent but, unfortunately, it is also possible that they have even surpassed us in terms of defence capabilities. 

Therefore, we need to move a bit faster and modernise ourselves, as a country. There is still this myth that someone cannot talk about the defence of a country. In the developed world, we see these things on the Cable News Network (CNN) and other media. We can easily see how these people are trying to modernise themselves. Of course, they are matters that they keep to themselves but, by and large, there is no harm in us, as a country, agreeing to modernise our defence establishments. 

Sir, the second point I would like to highlight is on the political leadership in the defence establishment and systems. As a country, we must be above partisan interest when we are talking about modernising and developing our defence systems. We have seen a lot of partisan interests, assumed or real, but I think that we need to build a defence system that can be respected across the board by all citizens. In any case, our defence will only be a genuine and serious defence if all Zambians and those that have interest in Zambia support it. Some of us are concerned about this. I have never worked in a military establishment, but I am getting concerned with the type of leadership that we, at times, give to this very important sector of our country. I will give examples of some of the concerns that I have. 

Sir, the first one is a number of careless statements that border on matters of defence. Not too long ago, we were told that in Lukulu, which has only one car that belongs to a hon. Member of Parliament, there are 600 recruits who are trying to destabilise this country. As a country, we did not detect them until the President talked about it. How possible is it that our former defence officers can turn against their country as we have been told? We are a bit more concerned when we hear of possible disturbances in some of the border areas. I think that the political leadership, in terms of developing our military, must help the processes that are within the defence system. I think it will not help us, as a country, if there is political carelessness in how we handle some of these matters of security, as we have witnessed. 

Sir, we have also heard, so many times, the assumption that if you belong to an opposition political party, then you are an enemy of the State and must be hunted down by members of the defence forces. Again, this is very wrong for a country like ours which is operating under a democratic dispensation. We must agree, as a county, that the multi-party democracy will stay with us for a very long time as long as we are willing to defend it. It will not do for us, as a country, to keep thinking that if you belong to an opposition party, then you are an enemy of the State. This is wrong. We must all respect what is obtaining in the defence forces. In this case, those that are in military leadership need to be re-oriented. They should make sure that they build a defense system that is accountable to the people. They should also note that the days when the Opposition was called the enemy of the State because it could not agree with the Government of the day are over. 

Mr Chairperson, there is also another matter that we should take cognisant of as we develop our defence forces and, I think, we must address it very seriously. There is the very bad trend now that once our defence officers leave office, they are investigated for one offence or another, particularly for cases that border on corruption and abuse of office. We must begin to ask ourselves what is critically wrong about this issue. Is it the individuals or systems? It is probably the systems which allow for somebody to abuse power now and be answerable tomorrow.

Sir, in my view, we need to modernise ourselves and develop systems that protect serving officers so that we do not have this bad reputation of investigating them whenever they leave office. That also creates some level of insecurity in men and women that are serving us in this very important sector. If I was in the military today, I would refuse to be promoted to a very high rank because it is certain that the end result will always be that, when I leave office, I will be investigated for one offence or the other. I think that is a very bad trend. People must look forward to being promoted and serving this country. Once their term of office comes to an end, they must retire in honour and respect. We need to know what makes these people prone to abuse of office that they occupy. Is it the systems that we have left unchecked? Is it the individuals? I think that it cannot be the individual because this has become a trend. 

Mr Chairperson, the other matter that we need to re-examine is the high turnover of the senior staff in our defence system. It appears to be an acceptable trend that whenever there is a change of political leadership, particularly the Presidency, then the staff in the defense establishments should also be changed. I think this is another very uncomforting trend. We must develop to a level whereby, regardless of who comes into political leadership, whether short or tall, those that have been trained are allowed to work up to their competencies and to have some level of stability.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude I just want to also re-echo what I have said. It is high time we really established who our enemies really are. When I hear the undertones that are coming from the political leadership of this country, it would appear that we have not defined who the real enemy of this country is. We seem to think that, anyone else who is not in your group at that particular time, politically, is the enemy of the country and, therefore, must be hunted down. That is why we have seen that wherever there is an opposing or dissenting view, instead of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, the one who usually shows up is the hon. Minister of Defence. To me, that is worrying because those in Government seem to think that their fellow citizens are enemies of this country. At the time when we were still children, we knew who the enemy of this country was.

Sir, I, therefore, want to appeal to, particularly, the hon. Minister of Defence, to provide the required leadership in this country. He must not be in the forefront of being seen to encourage trouble or the usage of the Defence Force in preserving his personal or political interests. Let me also say that, we must also be able to establish how our foreign policy is related to the defence of this country. We in the Opposition are a bit concerned that we do not seem to know how our foreign policy relates with our defence of this country. That is why I indicated that there seems to be that notion that, we are the enemies of the country because we are in the Opposition as opposed to the fact that we are part and parcel of the people that need to be protected in this country. Before end my contribution, let me ask the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs to go where he sits.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, I want to be very brief in supporting this Vote. Let me begin by saying, Zambia has three ‘collatos’. ‘Collato’ number one is Zambia itself and its natural resources which need to be protected. ‘Collato’ number two are the Zambians, themselves.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: As Zambians, within the boundaries of Zambia, we need …

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, is my colleague, the hon. Member from Mwashishi, in order to be using foreign words. What does he mean when he says ‘collato’? Can he explain what he means? I need your ruling.

The Chairperson: I think, he meant to say collateral, but if that is not what he meant, he can take that point of order into account.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: He is amongst collateral number two …

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: … who are the human beings, and in this case, the Zambians. Just like everyone else, he needs the protection of the Defence Force. The third aspect is peace itself. Without peace, we would not be doing things the way we currently do them. Zambia has enjoyed peace for forty-eight years. This collateral number three, whatever you call it, …

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: … has to be handled with care. If that is not done, we shall have chaos.

Sir, through you, may I appeal to those holding the instruments of power not to be making careless statements.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Sir, we have to be careful with the words that we utter because every word that is uttered matters.

Hon. Opposition Member: Uttered, matters.

Mr Mutelo: May I urge the hon. Minister, through the Chairperson, not to make careless utterances.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: He must check every word before he can utter it because the third aspect known as peace is very important more especially for Zambia, and its neighbouring countries. This is because this country is a centre of peace and refuge to so many nations especially its neighbours. We have had and are still handling refugees. Up to now no Zambian has gone anywhere as a refugee.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: This nation through its peace has helped a lot of its neighbouring countries to be independent. Let us handle issues to do with defence carefully. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Tell them.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, dialogue is another good platform. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, dialogue should be another good platform because this peace was hard-earned. Ask the First Republican President, Dr Kenneth Kaunda and the people who were there at the time what it cost them to have this peace. Why do you think we sing the National Anthem? It is a reminder to all Zambians of what transpired. It is not just a mere song. 

Mr Chairperson, if we are to continue being free, we have to rely on the Ministry of Defence. It may seem as if a soldier has not done anything today but his or her mere presence, whether engaged in a fight or not, is very important. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Therefore, let us not think that our soldiers are not important because they have never fought a war. Their mere presence is very important. Prevention is better than cure. You cannot call for a “friendly war” as if it is a game of football. 

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, prevention is better than cure. 

I, therefore, wish to reemphasize the point that the number three collateral known as peace is very important. If you think that it is not important, handle it carelessness ... 

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: …by trying out the so-called “friendly wars”.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, the schools, hospitals, bridges and whatever else we are trying to build, including the Katunda/Lukulu Road that we are asking for, will not be there if we do not have peace. We need peace in order to have the Katunda/Lukulu Road. Without it, no one would be able to do anything. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, the students and pupils will not learn if we mishandle the number three collateral, peace. Let us not try what should not be tried. 

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, we should go and ask Dr Kaunda about our peaceful Zambia and he will be able to tell us the cost of peace. I was not there when Zambians fought for independence, but I still think it is important to warn people against doing things which will disturb our peace.

Sir, having stated my few remarks, because I said that I would be very brief, …

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo: … I wish to urge the Zambian people to handle their natural resources and peace with care. 

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, Mitete is hardly a month as a district. Let us develop it. We can only do this by handling our peace in the right way. 

With these very few remarks, I thank you, Sir, for having accorded me this chance. Through, …

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Mutelo: … you, Sir, may I also urge those having the instruments of power, to handle peace with care. 

I thank you, Sir

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for permitting me to also debate this very important Vote. 

Interruptions

Mr Chairperson: Order!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I was in the process of thanking you for permitting me to also put a few words around the vote for the Ministry of Defence, which borders on national security. 

To begin with, let me put it in no uncertain terms that I support the budget at K2 trillion although in my view the 14.8 per cent increment that the hon. Minister talked about is totally insignificant for the tasks ahead of his ministry. I am a little surprised because he sounded like he was in the comfort zone when talked about the increment. 

Sir, I wish to adopt the debate of the hon. Member for Lukulu West as my own. 

Hon. Opposition Members: ‘Wis’ care!

Mr Nkombo: Serve for the mother-tongue interference. 

Laughter 

Mr Nkombo: Let me begin by speaking about his office. The Defence Minister’s office has been given a budgetary allocation of about K193 billion from about K300 billion which it had this year. I think that it is an indication of prudence that he has not lamented about the size of this vote. I wish that the other ministries would take this pattern. What I saw in the Yellow Book is that there are signs of extravagance on the part of the Minister’s offices. I therefore want to congratulate Hon. Mwamba. 

Sir, in his statement, the hon. Minister spoke about the acquisition of equipment as one of the tasks ahead of him. Just today, we learnt about an unfortunate incident that happened in Chinsali. The same incident happened in Kasempa not long ago, about two years or so where very important persons (VIPS) found themselves crash-landing with our military equipment.    

I will not dwell on what happened two years ago, but on what happened today. Mr George Chela, the Senior Advisor to the President for Press and Public Relations and the hon. Minister of the province were going to be in a catastrophe today. I regret to say that we shouted at the MMD when Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane, Hon. Dr Kaingu and Hon. Mulongoti crash-landed in Kasempa. Hon. G. B Mwamba, my advice to you is that you should have ensured that your aircraft was well-serviced because we still need you. The people of Zambia gave you the mandate to run the affairs of this country up to 2016. In the interim, we need you. Beyond 2016, well, we will afford to do without you.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: For now, we need you. Honestly.

Mr Muntanga: Do not die in a plane.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, all I am trying to emphasise is that we should not be superfluous about the real needs of his ministry. He spoke about equipment, and I watched him and the Commander of our Armed Forces, not too long ago, when there was a pass-out parade in Livingstone, and what I think I saw, if I was not mistaken, maybe you can correct me, was that the display of the new graduates of the flying school were still flying Mig-21s. These are very old aircrafts.

Interruptions

Hon. Member: Is it 21 or 17?

Mr Nkombo: I think the trend is that, even if Hon. G. B. Mwamba told his colleague, my uncle, Hon. Chikwanda, that, Ba yama, let us buy even two F-16s only,” although they are also …

Mr M. H. Malama: What does ba yama mean?

Mr Nkombo: Ba yama means uncle. If he asked Hon. Chikwanda to buy two F-16s, or even one, it would give us pride so that even when the Head of State is jokingly saying that we have a friendly war with Angola, you know that, at least, you have one F-16 and I know Angola has got more than ten.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: That is why I adopted the words of the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West as my own. If that friendly war had to occur, Mr Chairperson, there would be disaster in this country. I do not think we are prepared for war. That is why the hon. Minister started veering into Hon. Chenda’s area of agriculture and food production.

Sir, there is the issue of the outdated Zam Capital to which K1.5 billion has been allocated. Those of us who were there know why Zam Capital was established and we also know that it is not doing what it was established for. We all know this because it is not a secret. So, why continue funding it? 

Sir, I do not even know what Mupepetwe does, but I think that, other than making desks, I am told, it was established for a specific reason. Why should we start pretending? If it was doing what it was established for and continued to make the iron plates and pots, we would understand. We have been saying on institutions like INDENI and the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), that they should not be milking the Government, year in and year out. The same applies to Zam Capital. For example, you have allocated K1.5 billion for emoluments and they are not doing what they are supposed to do. Abolish or disband it. We do not need it. You can save that K1.5 billion and buy an F-16 one day in the future, or a Chinook Helicopter, which is also becoming outdated, rather than jumping into these helicopters that nearly killed my younger brother, George Chela. We still need him to advise the President. In my view, we must pray to our God that those people came out alive because a crash landing hardly leaves you alive when it happens. So, it should be a warning call for you, Hon. Mwamba, that, in 2013, as we walk into 2014, you start thinking as big as way you are.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Nkombo: I do not mean his physical stature, Sir, but Hon. G. B. Mwamba thinks talks big all the time. Therefore, I am encouraging him that, once he leaves his office in 2016, he should leave the legacy of having bought modern military equipment.

Mr Chairperson, he also spoke about Mulungushi Textiles and lamented the minority shareholding. I want to put it to him, through you, that he must stop, now, this business of crying like a baby about being unable to do anything because of being minority shareholders. Increase your shareholding or your equity in the company so that you can have a say and stop buying your uniforms from wherever. You should start producing uniforms locally. You can do it as simply as saying, ‘A, B, C’ which are the initials of the hon. Minister of Finance.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Remove the money from Mupepetwe and increase your shareholding in Zambia-China Mulungushi Textile so that we have a 50 per cent stake. In case you want to be reminded, today, China produces about the best fabrics. Everybody is looking to the East to buy the best fabrics. So, why should you insist on going to England to buy the regalia for our men and women in uniform? It can be done here in Kabwe, 140 miles away. 

Mr Muntanga: And create employment!

Mr Nkombo: Then you will be creating employment. Even the question of a piggery will not do this country good, Hon. Mwamba.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: You also spoke about border controls. Indeed, that is important. All of us must put our thoughts to the issue of border controls because we are living in porous border perimeters. Yesterday, I was watching how seven Pakistanis who, I am told, were heading to South Africa, I bet, to look for employment, were intercepted in Kalulushi. Where were they?

Mr Lubinda: Kasumbalesa!

Mr Nkombo: Kasumbalesa. Thank you, hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs. 

Sir, it is a serious matter that, as we are seated here, debating national security, we are having foreigners coming in without proper documentation of travel. You must ask yourselves questions: How did they enter at Kasumbalesa, a recognised border? So, who else is entering at the imaginary border between Zambia and Malawi? How many people are entering and coming to establish themselves here in our dingy compounds like Chibolya while you are seated here saying, Tuleteka, which means we are governing? I think that is an area that you need to look at very closely, hon. Minister.

Mr Chairperson, a long time ago, when you heard of the Maina Soko Military Hospital, you got comfort. Although it was exclusive to men and women in uniform, I think that the hon. Minister and his team should have thought of increasing the capacity of that hospital because it has saved many people’s lives. I observed that there is a K1 billion provision to the hospital in the Yellow Book, which is mostly going to staff welfare. My suggestion is that you buy equipment for the military hospital so that you do not have soldiers queuing up at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) or these other public medical utilities. Let them enjoy their privacy. 

Once again, try to mystify the job of the men and women who defend out territory. What I mean by that is that, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West said that whether you fought a war or not, you must be treated as a defender. However, soldiers are not confined into the cantonments. They live among us, move around with guns and befriend everyone. In certain cases, sadly, they even hire out AK47s to people so that they can stage robberies. That poses a security risk to us. Many people have been robbed by criminals using these AK47s that are outside the cantonment of military officers where they are supposed to be.

Sir, on the issue of commando training, I saw no allocation in the Yellow Book. Hon. Mwamba, I want to remind you, through the Chair, that, when Captain Solo, may his soul rest in peace, overtook this country, there was some Colonel who was a commando who, I believe, in no uncertain terms, heroic as he was, must be retired now if he is still alive. I think that he is retired and may still be among the living. The red beret commandos seized Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) and flashed out Captain Solo and, before we knew it, there was tranquillity and peace in the country. Today, you give no allocation on commando training. A “Touch Woody” scenario does not happen often, but what if some other crazy officers decide to topple your Government? Where will you find people to come and rescue the whole country? You need to put money for commando training. Please, do some research around this area because many people, including myself, are not happy with the way you are running the show. There are many shortcomings in your Government. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Let them resign.

Mr Nkombo: I do not want them to resign because they got the mandate of the people, but I am sure that the people are pinching themselves everyday for putting this Government of donchi kubeba; this makalanguzu Government.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, makalanguzu means survival of the fittest. That is the Government we have now. If you are not strong, you will not survive. 

With those few remarks on this makalanguzu Government, I beg to move.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to add my voice in supporting the Ministry of Defence’s budget. When you look at the fact that more than 70 per cent of this budget is going to emoluments, you begin to wonder if, indeed, we are preparing ourselves for any eventualities in this modern world.

Sir, if we look around us, our borders are becoming a bit dangerous and our friends becoming a bit unstable. I think that it is important for us to use a little more money to prepare ourselves for any eventualities.

Mr Chairperson, the second point I would like to talk about is the Zambia National Service (ZNS). I strongly feel that, much as the hon. Minister of Defence talked about it, he still has a lot to say regarding the ZNS. The ZNS can play a better role in our country than it is currently doing. Yes, it is helping us in road construction and food production, but it can do a lot more, for example, in the area of environmental protection.

Sir, the defence forces in many countries help clear river systems that get blocked. We have seen how our rivers are getting blocked with filth. We can utilise the officers from the ZNS to help clean them up as is the case in other countries. A good example is how the Mississippi River is cleaned on a yearly basis by the American armed forces. There is nothing shameful or degrading about our defence forces getting involved in such activities.

Mr Chairperson, the third issue I would like to talk about is the state of our barracks. I do not know about the other barracks but, where I come from, in Chipata, we have Gonda Barracks. If I took the hon. Minister of Defence there, incognito, not when he is surrounded by all his security personnel, what he will find there is not something to be proud of. The conditions in which our military personnel live leave much to be desired. It is shameful for our officers to live in such conditions, and something needs to be done about it. I am not inciting anyone, but merely stating a fact, which the defence personnel cannot talk about for themselves. At our barrack in Chipata, for instance, water is a problem. Women queue up as early as 0400 hours to fetch water for their husbands who are supposed to be clean in uniform. I would also like to talk about matters which Hon. Nkombo raised, but restrict them to the barracks. I think that the clinics in those barracks need to be improved to meet the current staffing levels there.

Mr Chairperson, I would also like to talk about training. If you go to Livingstone and see where our Zambia Air Force (ZAF) personnel train from, you will be shocked. The aircrafts being used are not safe, and this makes it dangerous to train in them. The officers are using very old planes whose names I do not even know. However, the hon. Minister of Defence is aware of this. What we see, when the recruits pass out, and what is, really, on the ground, in terms of what they go through, are two different things. We need to take care of our men and women in uniform so that we can make them ready to defend us, if need be.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue is further training for our military personnel. I think that the General there will agree with me that the most dangerous enemy for a country at war is your own soldiers. If they are not ready, they will kill each other more than they will be killed by the enemy. So, if we are not careful, we will be risking that in our country. Let us train our soldiers more than we are presently doing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, still on training, I would also like to touch on the issue of the way we recruit our soldiers. The recruitment procedure in the defence forces needs to be cleaned up. We have the problem of employment. So, when recruitments are on, there is total chaos. It is a shame that the Ministry of Defence can be embroiled in corruption issues when recruiting defence personnel when it is supposed to be the hub of discipline. Let us work on this and change the current status regarding corruption in the recruitment of officers because, currently, what is happening is a scam and a drama. We are happy that we have a very able hon. Minister of Defence to change this scenario.

Mr Chairperson, there is also a need to prepare our senior staff in the armed forces for civilian life. The issue Hon. Belemu raised, where all the Generals are getting arrested after they leave office, is very serious. To me, what matters is the need to prepare them before they leave office by empowering them. Let them not empower themselves wrongly. They need to be empowered in a transparent manner so that they can have means of living properly even after they have retired from service. By the way, we also make our officers very comfortable while they are serving, but we do not prepare them for life after they leave office. They do not know how to buy fuel, food and many other things for themselves. However, when they are retired, we want them to, suddenly, start doing so. What do you expect? They will get themselves into wrong issues, get arrested and, unfortunately, end up in prison. It is not in order that all our retired senior defence chiefs, army and ZAF commanders are all appearing in the courts of law.

Sir, I would also like to talk about our involvement in peace missions. We have some very small countries in Africa which are major contributors to peace missions some of which are ten times smaller than Zambia. The result of this is that we are allowing the soldiers in those countries to benefit more from money from the United Nations (UN) and Africa Union (AU) and those countries’ governments are, in turn, benefiting because they are paid when they send their officers on peace missions. We would like our country to benefit much more by filling in our quota and sending soldiers on these missions. By so doing, we are exposing them to modern military tactics and giving them more money in their pockets because, when they come back, they are never the same. So, I am urging the Government to seriously look at Zambia’s involvement in peace missions.

Finally, I urge the hon. Minister of Defence to prepare our soldiers so that they can be alert at all times. There is a lot of religious fundamentalism coming up in the country. Almost all countries are getting affected and we need to be alert. Let our military intelligence be watchful on this so that, in the event that we start getting this infusion, either directly or through our Constitution, we should have some input from the military intelligence to enable us protect ourselves.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Chairperson, I stand to totally support the Vote under debate. In so doing, I want to stress the point that the Ministry of Defence, which comprises the Zambia Army, Zambia Air Force (ZAF) and Zambia National Service (ZNS), plays an instrumental role in safeguarding the security of this country. However, I want to point out that despite the fact that our colleagues in the Zambian defence forces have been playing an instrumental role in connection to what I have just outlined, I have not been a very happy man for a long time. This is due to the fact that the recruitment in these institutions has always been done in a very unfair manner.

Mr Chairperson, I say so because whenever there is recruitment of officers in ZAF and the ZNS, the rural communities are always marginalised. One wonders whether the people in the countryside are not part of the Zambian citizenry. This is one issue which has to be looked into seriously. It is high time we started considering the rural people as part of the Zambian community.

Mr Chairperson, having said that, I want to urge the hon. Minister of Defence and his team in the ministry that time is now for us to make sure that we go flat out in decentralising the recruitment of soldiers. Once that is done, it will help us greatly in reducing youth unemployment in this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Sir, if the recruitment of 800 soldiers early this year had been extended to the rural communities, today, the number of 1.8 billion unemployed youths would have come down.

Hon. Members: Billion?

Mr Chisala: Sorry, it is 1.5 billion unemployed youths worldwide. 

Mr Chairperson, for us to reduce the number of youths who are not employed, it is high time we decentralised the recruitment process in our defence forces up to the district level. What I am trying to say is that school leavers should be given an opportunity to get employed at the district level. When a list of newly-recruited defence personnel is taken to the provincial headquarters or Lusaka, it should not be manipulated. We are being marginalised and disadvantaged just because we belong to the rural communities. Things are not supposed to be done in such a manner.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Chairperson, if mistakes were made twenty to thirty years ago, time is now for us to correct those mistakes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: We are in the saddle of driving the affairs of this country because the Zambian people knew very well that we have the capacity to make sure that we normalise the situation. So, the time is now for us to do so.

Mr Ntundu: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: When I debate like this, I am not against anyone. The point I am trying to stress is that, as leaders, we are one and the same. If we are looking at mistakes and nobody is pointing them out, then we are not helping the President of this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: If mistakes were made some time back, let us talk about them and try to find a solution. That way, we are going to progress.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Mr Chairperson, the other issue I want to talk about is the introduction of a navy in this country. It is sad that after forty-eight years of independence, Zambia has no national navy. Countries like the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Tanzania, Kenya, Sri Lanka, Mauritius, Madagascar and South Africa all have navies. The navy is for protecting the interest of the Zambian people. One wonders what we have been doing in those offices …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, order!

Mr Chisala: Mr Chairperson, when we are given the responsibility to run the affairs of the country, we are also given the authority to think in all directions and in a correct manner. The point I am trying to put across is that the time is now for us to introduce a navy in this country because if the DRC has managed to do so, why can we not introduce one? If Angola has one, why can we not have one as well? So, I want to urge my colleagues who have been given an opportunity …

Dr Kalila: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kalila: Mr Chairperson, first of all, I want to apologise to my colleague for interrupting his debate. I am sure you are aware that I rarely stand to raise points of order on the Floor of this House. I am also aware that you have given guidance that points of order relate to three scenarios, one of which is that they must relate to the subject under discussion. 

Mr Chairperson, therefore, my point of order this afternoon relates to the policy statement by the hon. Minister of Defence, which I was listening to very attentively. I am sure hon. Members will recall that, last Friday, there was a public pronouncement by His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Sata, ordering members of our security and defence forces to go to Lukulu to quell some alleged subversive activities there. As I sat throughout this afternoon, I expected the hon. Minister of Defence to, at least, refer to circumstances that led to that public pronouncement. Alas, none of that was mentioned in his statement.

Therefore, I am a worried hon. Member of Parliament from Lukulu. Is the hon. Minister of Defence in order to keep quiet and not mention to this House and the nation at large circumstances that led to that public order to send our troops to Lukulu District? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, can you address that matter when winding up debate on this Vote, if you can.

The hon. Member for Chilubi may continue.

Mr Chisala: Mr Chairperson, before Dr Kalila rose on a point of order, I was stressing the point that it is important for us to introduce a navy in this country because it plays a very important role in national security. Those who have studied history at an advanced level like myself, will agree with me when I say …

Laughter

Mr Chisala: … the United States of America (USA), in 1917 managed to show the world that it had the capacity to fight using warships. It introduced a warship called the Lusitanian, which sunk at a later stage.

Laughter

Mr Chisala: That boat sunk because some other country struck it with weapons.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala:  Nevertheless, I just want to remind you that it is always important to take things seriously. Whenever we want to do something, we must make sure that we take all the concerns of the Zambian citizens into consideration. 

The United Kingdom (UK), in 1986, managed to fight the Falkland Islands war because it used the navy. So, time is now for us to introduce one, especially in the inland base of Bangweulu. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: If we introduce one, the headquarters should be based there and not to be taken to the outskirts of the country. Let it be set up there because that will be a very good training area.

Lastly, Mr Chairperson, is that the aircrafts that are being used today in this country are extremely obsolete.  They should be replaced. If something was bought by Sir Roy Welensky in 1959, why should we keep using it when we are independent? If the First President, Dr Kaunda, bought something, say in the form of an aircraft in 1969, we should not keep on maintaining it. It is high time we also bought modern aircrafts in this country.

 In conclusion, Mr Chairperson, I want to put it on record by saying that when we have issues which border on the security of this country, it is important to consult experts in this issue. It is not good for us to point fingers at one another when others are trying to advise us because if we are going to develop a deaf ear in this country, we are not going to develop.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Time is now for us to listen to what others are saying. The people of Zambia gave us the mandate because they had every confidence that we can perform better than what other governments did in the past.

With these remarks, I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson …

Hon. Opposition Member: Only three hon. Members have contributed.

The Chairperson: Order!

Just for record’s purposes, I heard one of the hon. Members say only three hon. Members have contributed to debate on this Vote but, actually, it is five hon. Members who have debated on this Vote.

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, yes, it is five hon. Members.

Mr Chairperson, once again, it is my honour and privilege to stand before this august House to thank the hon. Members for exhaustively debating the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Ministry of Defence. The hon. Members’ valuable contributions have been taken note of and I wish to assure the House that the ministry will endeavour to effectively address all the concerns that have been raised. 

Mr Chairperson, let me now give responses to some of the concerns raised by the hon. Members. I will start with the hon. Member for Mbabala, Mr Belemu. 

Interruptions

Mr Mwamba: He wanted me to offer a policy statement on the modernisation of the defence forces. I think, in that regard, I would comfortably say that is already underway except I am not able to say so much on it because that borders on our national security. 

On defence capability, I wish to assure the House that we have the capacity, as Zambia, to defend to ourselves. Your concern on political leadership, this is in place and quite firm. You should also realise that when certain pronouncements are made, it does not mean that there is a problem with the political leadership, but all I can say is that we are sound, firm and in control of the Government. 

On the issue of careless statements, I wish to advise this august House that there are no such things as careless statements. When a statement is issued, it means there is something. There is no smoke without fire.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

You can continue.

Mr Mwamba: What you should realise is that we are in defence. I, personally, am in charge of the defence for the whole country. The information that I receive or that is before me even now is something that some of you who will never be Ministers of Defence will not be able to come across. So, when you hear of some pronouncement, it is because of the information that we have received from our various security wings. There is no way we are going to just wake up and start making pronouncements that there is something happening in the Western or Northern provinces or otherwise. That is not the case. 

Hon. Opposition Members: You are alarming the nation.

Mr Mwamba: That is not alarming the nation. That is actually informing the nation what is happening.

The Chairperson: Order!

Please, do not engage the hon. Minister. Let him respond.

Hon. Minister, continue.

Mr Mwamba: Another concern is that if someone does not belong to the government of the day, they are regarded as enemies of the State. I think that is totally incorrect. Whether we belong to the ruling or opposition party, we must be very mindful of what we say because that may lead us into problems. If you talk about the security of the nation, you should expect to be interviewed.

Another issue is the change of leadership in the defence force whenever government changes. I think, worldwide, when a government changes, we should expect that leadership, more especially in the defence force, to change because of loyalty. You will have divided loyalty if you stay in that position for a long time. So, anywhere in the world, as long as a government changes, leadership also changes.

Again, he wanted to find out who are the enemies of the country were. Enemies of the country come in so many forms. Those who decide to be talking about the security of the country, as I said earlier, those are enemies of the country. So, if you do not want to be an enemy of the country, you should keep quiet. You should not talk about things which you are not sure of because, if you do that, unfortunately, the long arm of the law will visit you.

The hon. Member for Lukulu West’s concerns were that Zambians, themselves, need defence. For sure, we all need defence whether you belong to the opposition or ruling party. Let me quote from the policy statement. Our mission statement of the Ministry of Defence is to preserve, protect and defend the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic of Zambia in order to maintain peace and security for all its citizens and residents and contribute to national development. It does not matter whether you belong to the opposition or ruling party, but my ministry’s core business is to protect and defend all citizens.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

  Mr Mwamba: As regards the statement that we should handle defence issues with care, I should be the one telling you that because if you engage yourself in matters which border on national security, the law will definitely take its course.

  On the statement that dialogue is a good platform, I wish to state that our President has an open door policy for everyone, including those of you in the Opposition. If you want to go and see the President even today, the door will be wide open for you. If you want a job from him, he will offer you one.

  Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

  Mr Mwamba: As long as you are capable of performing.  

  Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

  Mr Mwila: Bwekeshapo, mudala!

  Mr Mwamba: As regards the statement that prevention is better than cure, indeed it is. In fact, I am the one who is supposed to say to the hon. Member for Lukulu that prevention is better than cure. What he should do is to tell his people in Lukulu District that they should stop recruiting insurgents because if they continue to do that, the long arm of the law …

Hon. Government Members: Will visit them!

Mr Mwamba: … will definitely visit them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

  Mr Mwamba: The concerns of Hon. G. Nkombo for Mazabuka were on the acquisition of military equipment. Let me confirm that we have acquired new military equipment. Of course, these are matters of national security and hence I am not able to divulge the quantities of the equipment we have bought.

  Hon. Nkombo also talked about today’s mishap in Chinsali and wondered if the aircraft was serviced. I do not want to comment on that mishap because I have just heard it in here. I have not received a security report from the concerned officers. Therefore, I will be able to shed more light once I get proper information. As at now, the information I have is speculative.

  Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

  Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Nkombo claims that he saw air force officers flying Mig-21 planes at our Livingstone parade. Unfortunately, the Mig-21 planes are outdated. Not even one of those planes is used by our air force. In fact, they have not done so in the last ten years. However, for security reasons again, I will not be able to divulge which aircrafts or fighter planes we are using.

  Hon. UPND Members: We know them!

  Interruptions

  Mr Mwamba: As regards Mupepetwe and Zam Capital, as indicated in the 2013 Budget, the two institutions will be recapitalised.  Hon. Nkombo also said that since I am big, I should start thinking big.  

  Laughter

  Mr Mwamba: I admit that I am big and very proud of it. 

  Laughter

  Mr Mwamba: As regards the modernisation of the Defence Force, I said earlier on that we are already doing so progressively. We are modernising the defence force equipment. Hon. Nkombo also went to the extent of wanting to know how many shares we had in Mulungushi Textiles. We have only 34 per cent shares in Mulungushi Textiles and the majority shareholders who are the Chinese have 66 per cent. Those of you who are in business know what that means. When you are a minority shareholder, you have very little say in terms of directing the company. That Notwithstanding, we have engaged the Ministry of Justice and found some investors who are actually willing to take over the running of Mulungushi Textiles. Sooner or later, I will be making an announcement regarding the Mulungushi Textiles issue. 

  Mr Chairperson, Hon. Nkombo also asked Government to improve the health care services provided at Maina Soko Military Hospital.  Well, admittedly, we have not done so well. However, I wish to confirm that we are doing our level best to improve the operations of the hospital. In fact, we are expecting equipment to come in from China. When I travelled to China early this year, we were given a grant of US$8 million. Once the formalities are completed, we shall have enough modern equipment at Maina Soko.

  Sir, as regards the concern raised regarding commando training, I think that Hon. Nkombo did not browse through the Yellow Book thoroughly. If he goes to the Yellow Book on Page 971, Programme 4003, Activity 027 – Commando Training, he will notice that we have a budget line for commando training. 

  Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

  Mr Mwamba: Hon. Reuben Mtolo raised concern over the state of Gonda Barracks which he said does not even have water. I admit that the situation needs to be improved upon. We have had several complaints. We are looking forward to our next budget in which we should be able to address the concerns which have been raised. 

  Sir, as regards the training of pilots using old planes, it is news to me. Therefore, I cannot confirm that state of affairs. However, I wish to state that this information has opened my eyes such that I will definitely go and inspect the planes which are being used to train our young pilots.

  Sir, the training of troops is an ongoing exercise which I cannot give you a detailed description about. I cannot tell you what we do on a daily basis. What I can assure you is that we have a very vibrant force whereby if anything happened today, it would be ready to defend our country. Be rest assured, Hon. Mtolo, that you have a capable Defence Force.

   Mr Chairperson, on the concerns being expressed about army generals being arrested after office, I would like to state that even me after office, if I am not careful in the way I do things, I will be arrested. So, what we should realise is that when we are in these offices, we should be very careful with the way we things. We should look at tomorrow. If today we are able to do certain things and think that they will go unchecked in future, it is unfortunate because that is not the case. In any case, we are not persecuting anyone. Those who are in court have been found with cases to answer. If they have been found by the courts with cases to answer, who are we to say no they should not be prosecuted? We should just make sure that when we are in these offices, we minimise certain dealings.

    Mr Mucheleka: GBM, so you know?

    Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, I think that Hon. Chisala has misplaced his facts. I told him this afternoon that if he had problems with the way we are doing things, he should come to the ministry. Now he is trying to mislead the nation by saying that the recruitment for personnel for our Defense Force is not conducted in a transparent manner.

  Interruptions

  Mr Mwamba: No, that is not the case. 

Interruptions

Mr Mwamba: Let me tell you something without necessarily mentioning the numbers that we had earmarked for recruitment. What happened was that every district had a portion of the number of officers which it was supposed to recruit. The overall number was not a significant one. Unfortunately, maybe because Hon. Chisala’s relatives were not captured, which is not our fault, he says that the system is corrupt. It is not corrupt.

Interruptions

Mr Mwamba: Let me tell you that there were over 30,000 applicants against a certain small number which I cannot mention for security reasons.

Interruptions

Mr Mwamba: Why should I do it? You are not the only ones listening, mind you? The world is listening to what I am saying right now. Do you want them to know our strengths and weaknesses? I will not give you that information.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: All that you should understand we only recruited a very small number of individuals. In the coming year, we intend to increase the number. This year, we did not have the capacity to recruit a huge number. Probably, we may recruit a reasonable number of recruits next year.

Hon. Chisala, you are part of us, therefore, in future, you should come to the office so that we could give you those facts ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwamba: … instead of raising your concerns in the House. What are you trying to achieve? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

Every hon. Member in the House has the liberty to say what he or she wants to say because they are protected. In addition to what he says, if you want him to come to your office, you may say so, but do not stop him from saying what he wants to say in the House.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, last but not least …

Mr Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Opposition Members: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.{mospagebreak}

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the

Chair]

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I wanted to respond to a concern raised by Hon. Kalima who wanted …

Dr Kalila: It is Kalila.

Mr Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Kalila wanted to find out the circumstances which necessitated the President on 30th November, 2012 to order the Defence Force to go to Lukulu District to quell alleged subversive activities that could threaten the security of the nation. The President acted on security information which he received. He did not act from nowhere. 

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Kalila also wanted to find out whether the defence and security forces carried out that order and if they did, what their findings were. He also wanted to find out whether there was a loss of life as a result of the security operations which followed. Unfortunately, I cannot reveal the findings about the matter because it is still under investigation. However, I can confirm that there has been no lose of life. As to the cost of the operation, I am afraid I am not able to disclose it here. However, I can disclose that information if you come to my office.

Mr Chairperson, it is gratifying to note that my ministry has received overwhelming support from this August House to enable it to carry out its mandate of defending the country’s sovereignty and territorial integrity. I wish to once again, thank all hon. Members of Parliament for their support.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 77/01 – (Ministry of Defence – Headquarters – K150,070,598,412).

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)Under 01 Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme: 4000 Personal Emoluments, Activity 005 Other Emoluments, by the deletion of 
K33,871,423,927 and the substitution therefor of K33,326,992,411; and 

(ii)Under 10 Defence School of Health Sciences, Programme: 4003 Capacity 
Building, by the deletion of Programme Total K633,000,000 and the substitution therefor of K632,999,999.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 77/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 77/02 – (Ministry of Defence - Zambia Army – K883,057,673,305).

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment under 06 Administration Branch, Programme:4000 Personal Emoluments, Activity 005 Other Emoluments, by the deletion of K45,673,245,932, and the substitution therefor of K46,434,030,061.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.
       Health Science  Health h
Mr Simbao: Sorry, my question has passed.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4071, Activity 006 – Media Relations – Nil. I notice that there is an allocation of K233,076,119 in this year’s Budget, but no provision in next year’s Budget. Why is that the case?

The Deputy Minister of Defence (Mr Mwila): Mr Chairperson, the activity has been realigned and fused into Programme 4050.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 77/02, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 77/03 – (Ministry of Defence  – Zambia Air Force – K573,457,642,269).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

(i)under 01 Human Resources and Administration Unit, programme: 4000 Personal Emoluments, Activity 005 Other Emoluments, by the deletion of K42,049,568,361 and the substitution therefore of K39,655,706,890;

(ii)under 01 Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme: 4001 General Administration, Activity 003 Office Administration, by the deletion of K4,050,565,732 and the substitution therefore of K4,287,679,732; and 

(iii)under 01 Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme: 4001 General Administration, Activity 004 Staff Welfare, by the deletion of K237,114,000.
Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 77/03, as amended, ordered to start part of the Estimates.

VOTE 77/04 – (Ministry of Defence – Zambia National Service – K371,421,007,060).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to make the following amendment:

(i)Under 01 Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme: 4000 Personal Emoluments, Activity 005 Other Emoluments, by the deletion of K62,679,528,544 and the substitution therefore of K64,857,037,402;

(ii)Under 02 Production Unit, Programme: 4024 Farm Management, by the deletion of Programme Total K2,063,792,262 an the substitution therefore of K2,063,792,261; and

(iii)Under 03 Logistics Unit, Programme: 4007 Dismantling of Arrears, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,175,479,254 and the substitution therefore of K4,175,479,255.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4024, Activity 004 – Crop Production – K972,385,575. The provision for this year is K1,574,059,194 while the provision for next year is K972,385,575. Could I know the reason for the reduction.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4022, Activity 004, caters for logistical support to crop production. The decrease is due to fewer expenses on inputs as a result of improved crop management practices, such as crop rotation and use of high-yield seed. The programme total adjusted due to rounding off.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4003, Activity 035 – Youth Empowerment Training – K10,521,445,328.  What has created this increment?

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, on Activity 035, the provision is for logistical support to the youth Empowerment Programme of which the hon. Member of Parliament is aware. The increase is due to the number of youths to be trained in 2013. The hon. Minister has just mentioned that we have recruited some youths who are going to train in these training centres.

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 77/04, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

VOTE 77/05 – (Ministry of Defence – Defence Force Medical Services – K7,077,551,377).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under 01: Human Resources and Administration Unit, Programme 4007: Dismantling of Arrears, by the deletion of Programme Total K587,394,430 and the substitution therefor of K587,394,429.

Amendment agreed to.

Vote 77/05 amended accordingly.

Mr Chisanga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4003, Capacity Building. I have noticed that the amounts for all the activities under this programme have been reduced. Due to the depreciation of the kwacha, I expected figures to go up. For example, Activity 001 – Training Abroad – K89,159,270 while, this year, there was K142 million. Why this reduction?

Sir, under Programme 4007, Dismantling of Arrears, the Programme total for this year was K834,841,908 but, for next year, there is K587,394,430. May I know why the figures are going down, instead of rising?

Colonel Lungu: Mr Chairperson, the allocation for Activity 001 has decreased due to higher cost of training.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4007, Activity 001 − Rent Arrears − K57,045,457, Activity 004 − Utility Services − K102,053,444, Activity 011 − Outstanding Bills (Foreign) − K153,736,845, Activity 018 − Settlement of Outstanding Bills – Telephone Bills − K122,290,135 and Activity 022 − Suppliers of Goods and Services − K152,268,548. For the benefit of the hon. Member of Parliament, the reason is that rental arrears on Activity 001 caters for the clearing of outstanding rent arrears. The decrease is because we have been paying, and that is why the figures have been going down. It is the same reason for all the other activities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4036, Activity 006 −Treatment Abroad − K160,720,906. I have noticed that there is a reduction in this Budget line. What has been done this year to necessitate the reduction on this activity?

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4036, Activity 006, has reduced due to the increased local treatment of personnel who would, otherwise, be treated abroad.

I thank you, Sir.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 77/05, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 77/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 77/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 77/09 − (Ministry of Defence −Research and Planning −K58,790,678,566).

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4008, Activity 004 − Gender − K100,000,000. I noticed that, amongst the cross-cutting issues, HIV/AIDS-related activities are missing. Why is such an important issue missing?

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4008, Activity 004, caters for gender workshops and awareness campaigns, and no adjustments have been made. However, all the services, namely, the Zambia National Service (ZNS), Zambia Army and Zambia Air Force (ZAF) have provided funds for the same activity.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao: Sir, may I have clarification on Programme 4010, Activity 025 – Budget Preparations – K196,992,000. I see that there is a reduction of almost K100 million. This makes me wonder how budget preparations will cost so little this year. 

May I also clarification on Programme 4037, Activity 003 – Monitoring and Evaluation of Programmes – K111,275,000. There is a very significant reduction of about K400 million on this activity. I wonder why the Government does not want to do this activity this year.

Mr Chairperson, I further seek clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 181 – Infrastructure Construction – K10,274,351,757. I am very surprised by such a significant reduction on this activity because I know that our army personnel do not have enough accommodation. 

Colonel Lungu: Chair, ... 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

If you said ‘Chairperson’ or ‘Chairman’, I would appreciate because I am not a chair. 

You may continue. 

Laughter 

Colonel Lungu: Yes, Sir. 

Mr Chairperson, Programme 4010, Activity 025, caters for allowances, stationery, conference facilities and fuel. The amount has been reduced as preliminary draft budgets are to be done in-house. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, the increase on Programme 4012, Activity 058, caters for repairs of the Ministry of Defence Office Building. The increase is due to the fact the building will be rehabilitated. 

Sir, Programme 4037, Activity 003, caters for allowances and other operational expenses. The increase in the allocation is because of the increased number of site visits to be undertaken. 

I thank you. 

Mr Simbao: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister did not follow. I was seeking clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 181 – Infrastructure Construction – K10,274,351,757. Why is there out such a huge reduction when our army personnel need accommodation? 

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I think that I need to be guided because Programme 4012 is infrastructure development and there is an increase because, this year, ... 

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: We are dealing with Programme 4012, Activity 181 – Infrastructure Construction – K10,274,351,757. The 2012 Budget was K31.4 billion. In 2013, this amount is K10.2 billion. Why is this reduction there?

Colonel Lungu: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4012, Activity 181, will cater for the completion of the Northern Command Hospital in Ndola. The allocation has reduced because of works completed in 2012. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 77/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

VOTE 89 − (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development − K1,748,707,015,072).

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Chenda): Mr Chairperson, I wish to take this opportunity to thank you and hon. Members of this august House for this opportunity to present my statement in support of my ministry’s 2013 budget.

Sir, my statement will focus on three parts. Firstly, I will highlight the performance and achievements of the agricultural sector in 2012. Secondly, I will mention the challenges that the sector faces and then, thirdly, give the outlook for 2013 and beyond.

Mr Chairperson, the vision of the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock is to promote the development of an efficient, competitive and sustainable agricultural sector which assures food and nutritional security and increased incomes. 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us consult less loudly, please, and allow the hon. Minister to deliver his policy statement.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Chenda: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. The agricultural sector remains the engine for economic growth in Zambia. 

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Chenda: To move the sector forward, there is a need for prioritisation of interventions which will make a significant impact on food security, income and employment generation, and poverty reduction. 

Sir, on the performance and achievements in 2012, I wish to state that the 2012 budget for the ministry was K1.6 trillion. From this allocation, we implemented programmes like livestock production extension and disease control; construction of breeding centres at Mukulaikwa in Mumbwa, which is 90 per cent complete, Mbesuma in Chinsali, which is 50 per cent complete and Chishinga Ranch in Kawambwa, which is 20 per cent complete; some works were done in Senanga; and on-going works on the establishment of additional livestock production centres at Kanyama in Mwinilunga and Kalungwishi in Chinsali are underway. 

Under the livestock stocking programme, Kanyama Livestock Production Centre was stocked with 100 breeding cattle, while 200 boar goats for Kachindu Livestock Production Centre in Sinazongwe have been procured from Namibia. These goats will, ultimately, be made available to our small-scale farmers from 2013. In addition, Palabana Dairy Ranch was stocked with thirty in-calf heifers from South Africa and about 200 boar goats and 100 doper sheep from Namibia were supplied to Mukulaikwa in Mumbwa District. Mbesuma Ranch was also stocked and had 154 breeding cows and four bulls. The livestock re-stocking programme resulted in about 200 farmers benefiting from the 700 cattle. 

Mr Chairperson, the ministry was also able to scale up livestock vaccinations, which contributed to reduced mortality rates for the traditional livestock. Other activities undertaken included vaccination of one million cattle against Foot and Mouth Disease in the Southern, Western, Central and Northern provinces; vaccination of 500,000 cattle against Contagious Bovine Plural Pneumonia (CBPP) in the North-Western and Western provinces.

Mr Chairperson, further, the ministry was able to promote artificial insemination services by rehabilitating and upgrading the Artificial Insemination Centre in Mazabuka.

Sir, my ministry has embarked on establishing livestock service centres where various livestock extension services such as dipping, spraying, vaccinations, artificial insemination and branding are undertaken. A total of ninety-three livestock service centres were under construction during the first three quarters of 2012.

Mr Chairperson, a total of K6.4 billion has been spent on the construction of the livestock centres. In order to promote the growth of the dairy industry, the Government, with the support of co-operating partners, continued the promotion of dairy out grower schemes and establishment of milk collection centres for small holder dairy co-operatives. To this effect, thirty milk collecting centres were operational by the end of September, 2012. In addition, the construction of the dairy processing centre in Lusaka’s Mapepe Area was completed at a cost of K573 million. Equipment for value addition of milk was procured for the newly-constructed milk collection centre for the Choma Dairy Co-operative at a cost of K255 million. A total of K8 billion was spent on the livestock vaccination campaigns.

Sir, as regards crop production and productivity improvement and marketing, the main focus of the ministry, under the crop production and productivity improvement component, was the provision of extension services countrywide, promotion of sustainable agriculture and productivity improvement, irrigation infrastructure development and crop diversification.

In line with the PF’s Manifesto on crop diversification from maize production, my ministry has prioritised the production and marketing of other important cash crops such as cotton, soya beans, ground nuts, rice and sorghum. These crops have been included in the 2012/2013 Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP).

Mr Chairperson, in order to promote appropriate technologies for sustainable agriculture productivity, my ministry embarked on scaling up conservation agriculture among small-scale farmers countrywide during the 2011/2012 farming season. Conservation farming has been scaled up from the initial twelve districts to thirty-one districts in eight provinces, namely Eastern, Southern, Western, Lusaka, Central, Copperbelt, Northern and Luapula. By the end of September, 2012, a total of 127, 232 farmers were practising conservation agriculture in the thirty-one districts. A total of K30 billion was spent in conservation agriculture in 2012.

Mr Chairperson, in 2012, a total of K3.95 billion was spent on construction of the regional headquarters for the International Red Locust Control Organisation for Central and Southern Africa in Ndola. As a result of our collaboration with this organisation, we envisaged a reduced outbreak of red locusts as well as other migratory pests.

Sir, the concept of farm block development was introduced to bring more land under production and promote agriculture investment. Under this, at Nansanga Farm Block, a total of 310 farms, including the core venture and three commercial farms, were demarcated and advertised to the public. The farms have been offered to prospective farmers who are now collecting title deeds from the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. At Luena farm Block in Kawambwa District, a total of 157 farms out of the targeted 900 have so far been demarcated and one dam has since been constructed. In the remaining provinces, land has been identified for farm block development, while in other parts of the country, land is still being negotiated for with traditional rulers.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has prioritised irrigation development. To this effect, the Irrigation Development Support Project, a World Bank funded irrigation project in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, was launched in 2012. Preliminary works undertaken so far include engineering feasibility studies and participatory planning, topographic mapping, high intensity soil surveys, land inventory, household and asset surveys, to prepare for the settlement planning. The total project cost is K1 trillion. Under phase I of this project, irrigation schemes will be developed in Lusaka Province, Momboshi in Central Province and Musakashi on the Copperbelt Province starting 2013.

Mr Chairperson, our thrust under cooperative development is to create an enabling institutional and legal environment for the development of autonomous, transparent, viable and demand-driven cooperatives which will contribute to poverty reduction. To this effect, the ministry launched a national cooperative development policy in July, 2012. The ministry also embarked on reviewing the Cooperative Act No. 20 of 1998 to ensure that it is in line with the recently launched National Cooperative Development Policy.

Mr Chairperson, the overall objective of my ministry under the research component is to generate and adapt crop and cell technologies in order to increase agriculture productivity and diversify production through the participation of both public and private sectors in research activities. My ministry, through the Zambia Agriculture Research Institute, has continued to develop high yielding varieties of food and cash crops which are disease tolerant. To this effect, five drought and stress tolerant varieties of maize, two varieties of beans and one variety of cowpeas were released. A total of K3.5 billion was spent on agricultural research.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry’s overall objective under agri-business is to promote the development of a competitive, efficient and transparent public and private sector driven marketing system for agricultural commodities and inputs. During the 2012 Crop Marketing Season, with increased maize production and the prevailing maize deficit in the region, the country recorded increased exports of maize grain and products. By the end of September, 2012, more than 655,000 metric tonnes of maize were exported to various countries in the region. A total of K1.9 trillion was realised from the maize exports.

Mr Chairperson, in order to enhance the capacity of agro-dealer networks, a series of agro-dealer trainings in some parts of the country, that is in Eastern, Central, Copperbelt, Northern, Southern and Westerns provinces, were conducted. The training focused on business skills development and the facilitation of business linkages between agro-dealers and suppliers of agriculture inputs such as seed and fertilisers. To support increased production and productivity of the small scale farmers, contracts worth K826 billion under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) were awarded in September, 2012 to cater for the supply of 133,634 metric tonnes of fertiliser and a variety of seeds, namely maize, cotton, rice, groundnuts and sorghum. In total, FISP has targeted to assist 900,000 small scale farmers.

During the 2011/2012 Farming Season, Zambia was among the two other countries in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region that produced a surplus of maize grain while the rest of the countries had maize deficits. The Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has procured 1,042,813 metric tonnes of maize. Up to K2.4 trillion was spent on the purchase of strategic food reserves in 2012.

Fisheries Development

Mr Chairperson, there was an 11 per cent decrease in captured fish by the end of September, 2012 compared to 2011. The national aquaculture production, however, increased by 8 per cent during the same period. The reduction in captured fish production can mainly be attributed to the continued usage of poor and illegal fishing methods and fishing activities in breeding grounds.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry embarked on the construction and rehabilitation of infrastructure required for fisheries development at various stations like Mwekela Fish Centre, Kanchele Dam in Kalomo and office blocks in Chirundu and Chilanga. Fisheries equipment such as boat engines and laboratory equipment was also procured in 2012. A total of K29 billion was spent on fisheries development activities in 2012.

Challenges

Mr Chairperson, let me, now, briefly highlight some of the challenges that my Ministry and the sector was faced with in 2012. These include:

(a)low productivity of crops, livestock and fisheries due to factors like low input use, low farm mechanisation and high livestock disease prevalence; 

(b)poor fishing methods, coupled with low fish re-stocking measures have contributed to low production of fish; 

(c)little or no value addition to crops, livestock and fisheries products. Crops and other agricultural products are mostly sold in raw form with minimal value addition. The consequences of this are that farmers do not realise increased potential income from their farming activities; 

(d)low investment in animal disease prevention and surveillance has led to low livestock productivity as well as trade restrictions; 

(e)limited access to affordable credit and finance by both small and large-scale farmers; 

(f)poor access to markets by small-scale farmers and limited bargaining power of our small-scale farmers to negotiate for better prices; and 

(g)limited storage for both inputs and outputs, resulting in high-cost harvest losses for crops.

The 2013 Budget Analysis and Trends

Mr Chairperson, I wish to commend the Ministry of Finance for increasing the allocation to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock from K1.6 trillion in 2012 to K1.75 trillion in 2013.  This translates into a nominal increase of 10.6 per cent. The ministry has been allocated 5.24 per cent of the total discretionary National Budget in 2013. Although the allocation for the 2013 is still below the 10 per cent recommended under the Maputo Declaration of 2003, it puts us in good step towards eventually achieving the recommended target. With the given allocation, the ministry will implement the following programmes:

Crop Production, Productivity-Improvement and Diversification

Mr Chairperson, the 2013 budget will give priority to increasing crop production and productivity of food and cashew crops, through the scaling up of extension services to promote the crop diversification programme. To support the scaling up of our extension services, we shall recruit 900 extension officers in addition to the 600 being recruited in 2012.

Mr Chairperson, irrigation development, through the construction of multi-purpose dams and irrigation schemes will ensure that the farmers have abundant opportunities to grow a variety of crops throughout the year. Construction of free dams will continue in Lusitu in Lusaka Province, Momboshi in Central Province and in Lusakashi on the Copperbelt in 2013. 

In harnessing public-private-partnerships (PPPs), we have allocated K3 billion towards the development of the Luena Farm Block for land surveys and farm demarcations while K35.8 billion has been allocated to the Crop Production and Productivity-Improvement programme. 

Livestock Development and Disease Control and Surveillance

Mr Chairperson, the livestock development programme is key to our agricultural diversification programme. To address the challenges in the livestock sector, concerted efforts will be made in 2013 to intensify disease prevention and control measures. Other interventions aimed at improving livestock productivity will include the construction of livestock check-points for disease surveillance, purchase of equipment for livestock vaccine development, construction and rehabilitation of dip-tanks countrywide, vaccination, small-holder dairy development programmes, construction of livestock extension research service centres and rehabilitation of the livestock breeding centres at Kalungwishi, Mporokoso, Senanga and Shang’ombo. A total of K175.5 billion has been allocated to livestock development and disease prevention …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 (Debate adjourned)

_____________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

_______________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

______________

The House adjourned at 1917 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 6th December, 2012.