Thursday, 1st November, 2018

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Thursday, 1st November, 2018

 

The House met at 1430 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

 

FOOTBALL AND NETBALL MATCHES BETWEEN HON. MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT AND DIPLOMATS ACCREDITED TO ZAMBIA

 

Hon. Members, I wish to remind you that, as early announced, the football and netball matches between hon. Members of Parliament and the Diplomats accredited to Zambia will take place tomorrow, Friday, 2nd November, 2018, at the Olympic Youth Development Centre (OYDC) beginning at 1400 hours.

 

Transport to and from the OYDC will be provided. In this regard, the participating hon. Members will be picked up from the National Assembly Motel at 1330 hours.

 

Thank you.

 

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

PROCEEDS FROM THE SALE OF MUKULA TREES

 

The Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to issue a statement to this august House and the nation at large on how the proceeds from the sale of mukula trees are being accounted for.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, as the House may recall, I issued a statement to this august House in which I emphasised that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, through the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources and under the leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, had decided to pay attention to the protection of the valuable timber species, particularly the mukula species.

 

Sir, the mukula species has the potential to contribute to poverty reduction, and job and wealth creation for our country, hence the need to manage it in a sustainable manner. It is against this background that my ministry issued Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 31 of 2017, which restricted the exportation and transiting of selected timber species.

 

Mr Speaker, in order to avoid a loss of revenue, on 1st June, 2017, the ministry instructed the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation (Zaffico) to export all the mukula logs that had been confiscated from smugglers on behalf of the Government. In 2018 alone, Zaffico has been issued with nine export permits.

 

Sir, all the illegally harvested mukula logs are seized under Section 82 of the Forest Act No. 4 of 2015 and forfeited to the State through the courts of law.

 

Mr Speaker, since August 2017, when the Government imposed the ban on the harvest and trade of mukula trees, and the subsequent appointment of Zaffico to sell all the illegally harvested and confiscated logs, US$4.3 million has been raised. It is important to note that all procedures pertaining to the utilisation of the proceeds raised from the sale of the logs have been adhered to. Further, authority to utilise the raised funds was sought from the Ministry of Finance. Zaffico was subsequently granted authority to use the proceeds to revamp Kawambwa Tea Estate, which the Government handed over to Zaffico for management.

 

Sir, the Public Finance Management Act No. 1 of 2018 governs the utilisation of Government revenue, and can be used to hold the Government to account over the proceeds of the trade in mukula trees. Further, Zaffico, being a corporate body under the Government, is also subjected to routine audits.

 

Sir, I assure hon. Members that my ministry will, from time to time, update this House on the utilisation of the proceeds as and when I am requested to do so.

 

Sir, as I conclude, I assure this august House that the proceeds from the sale of the confiscated mukula logs are being put to good use for the benefit of the economy and the people of Zambia.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources.

 

Mr Ng’ambi (Chifubu): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources for clearing the air on the illegally harvested mukula logs.

 

Sir, the hon. Minister has indicated that the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation (Zaffico) was given nine permits to export mukula logs, and that US$4.3 million was realised. Who were the buyers of the logs?

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, Zaffico sells the mukula logs in the Far East, which is China.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Sir, I thank the hon. Minister for her elaborate statement.

 

Sir, why is the sale of the mukula tree not restricted to provide for value addition and job creation in the country?

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, at an appropriate time, I will issue another statement to the House on that issue. We are discussing value addition with the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

 

Sir, if I may give a bonus answer, currently, whoever exports timber from Zambia has to add value to it, which can be in the form of making furniture. We do not allow any raw materials to be exported.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, the mukula tree is on high demand. How much does it cost per tonne?

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I do not know the price per tonne, but I can provide that information later.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, what criterion was used to give the proceeds to Kawambwa Tea Company out of all the parastatal companies? Further, how much financial support did the company ask for from the Government?

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, it was a Cabinet decision. Kawambwa Tea Company used to be one of the viable companies we had, but it had gone under. Therefore, the Government decided to revamp it using the proceeds from the sale of the mukula logs, and the company has been revamped.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I have gone round police stations and seen a lot of mukula tree that is going to waste. Is the hon. Minister in a position to know the value of those trees? Further, who is responsible for that loss?

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i, the constituency my parents come from.

 

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kapata: He is my hon. Member of Parliament.

 

Sir, for most of the logs found at police stations, their cases are still active in court. If the hon. Member wants to know the tonnage, I would appreciate it if he filed in a question so that we can provide accurate information.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Mr Speaker, is the Government considering legalising the mukula trade in order to encourage foreign investors to come and engage in value addition, especially in Mufumbwe, which has the tree?

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, for now, the ban stands. The Government is still considering making mukula processing a Government-driven project so that it benefits all Zambians, not only the few who know the value of the tree. We will inform the House on how things will progress. We want the benefits to reach everyone through Control 99 at the Ministry of Finance.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Malama (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, what is causing the delay in collecting the mukula logs that are lying idly? In Nchelenge District, they have just been going to waste because of the rainfall and bushfires, yet there is already a market for them.

 

Ms Kapata: Sir, I mentioned earlier that most of those logs are in the custody of the police. So, we cannot dispose of them until the courts clear the cases in which they are involved. Further, there are people who harvested mukula legally before the ban and still have some logs in different parts of the country. So, we extended an amnesty to them to transport the logs to safe places. Later, we may allow them to sell to companies that are adding value to mukula in the country.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Sir, five months ago, there was an article in the Diggers Newspaper in which it was reported that the Government had declared that it had exported mukula worth US$900,000 to China in 2016 while China had declared that it had imported US$87 million worth of mukula from Zambia in the same year. Further, a report by the Chief Researcher, Dr Davidson Gumbo, claims that Zambia has lost more than US$4 million through the elicit export of mukula. Could the hon. Minister give us the exact figure of what was declared from the sale of mukula in 2016.

                                                                                           

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, we do not have the facts, but some media houses publish a lot of inaccurate information. As far as I know, as Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, we do not have that information. The information I have given is correct. Further, my statement is on confiscated mukula logs.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Zulu (Luangeni): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to tell us how long it takes for the mukula tree to mature?

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the mukula tree takes between eighty and 100 years to mature, and we issued a ban on its harvest because we need to protect it. Otherwise, it will be wiped out from our forests.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Jamba (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, when we went to Namibia, we noticed that under tourism, the conservationists looked after the mukula tree as theirs. What is the ministry doing to ensure that people in areas where the mukula tree grows have a sense of ownership over it?

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let me provide guidance.

 

This is time to seek clarification on the ministerial statement and, as I indicated yesterday, if a statement is clear, we need to move on. Further, the test of relevance is the statement. Before asking any question, ask yourself whether the issue you wish to pursue is related to the statement. If the answer is in the negative, then, the question is irrelevant.

 

Mr Kundoti (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that Kawambwa Tea Company was given the US$4.3 million raised from the sale of the mukula tree. How accountable has the company been over the money it was given?

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the reason I issued the statement was to tell the House and the nation how the money has been utilised.

 

Sir, Kawambwa Tea Company bought new equipment, as its machinery was obsolete. Further, the workers, who had not been paid their salaries for a long time, have since been paid. Additionally, the fields that had almost been destroyed have been revamped. In this regard, I request that Mr Speaker sends a team of hon. Members of Parliament to go and appreciate how Zaffico has revamped the company.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Speaker: I will wind up with questions from the hon. Member for Chasefu, the hon. Member for Mumbwa, the hon. Member for Nchanga, the hon. Member for Lubansenshi, the hon. Member for Katuba, the hon. Member for Mapatizya and the hon. Member for Chilanga.

 

Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, there were studies being undertaken by a school at the University of Zambia (Unza) on the feasibility of establishing mukula plantations. Can the hon. Minister give an indication on the status of the studies.

 

Mr Speaker: I did not get your question.

 

Mr Zimba: Mr Speaker, some tests were being conducted by Unza on the growing of the mukula tree. I would like to find out the status of those tests.

 

Mr Speaker: That has nothing to do with the statement although it is on the mukula tree.

 

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, what measures has the Government taken to ensure that the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation (Zaffico) is the only exporter of the mukula tree in this country?

 

Ms Kapata: Sir, only Zaffico is allowed to export the mukula tree under the scrutinising eye of our security wings. I am sure that hon. Members will agree with me that from the time we effected the ban to date, it is rare to hear of the tree being transported. This is because the security wings man the forests. Previously, there were between fifty and 100 trucks transporting mukula in a week, and some of the mukula that was cut in Zambia was purported to be from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). So, there has been adequate control over the trade in mukula.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chali (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, has the hon. Minister considered how the ban on exports has affected the local timber industry? The prices of the few companies that operate in Zambia, such as Kubu Crafts and Sikale Wood, are beyond the reach of an average Zambian.

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, we have not restricted the use of timber at local level. The restriction is only on the mukula tree. There are many tree species in Zambia that can be used at local level, and value can be added to them. The law we have put in place is that no one can move timber from a concession area without adding value to it, that is, without cutting the trees into four-cornered logs, so that, at least, jobs are created where the resource is harvested. So, we have not disadvantaged anybody. All we want is for the resource to benefit the people of Zambia generally as opposed to benefitting only a few individuals who know the value of the tree.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Sir, the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources and the responsible Government of the Patriotic Front were accused of being involved in the selling of mukula by United Party for National Development (UPND) hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Mwamba: Does the hon. Minister have a word for the UPND hon. Members to stop them from repeating their accusations in the future? 

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Katuba, please, ask your question.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Member: Long live the Speaker!

 

Ms Mwashingwele (Katuba): Sir, the hon. Minister mentioned that the ministry has given nine export licences to the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation (Zaffico). Will the ministry give a licence for every transaction or will one licence suffice since, according to her statement, Zaffico is the only exporter so far?

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, we issue Zaffico a licence each time it exports mukula. We cannot give it one licence for all transactions because we want accountability.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, we appreciate that Kawambwa Tea Company has benefitted through the Zambia Forestry and Forest Industries Corporation (Zaffico). However, does the Government have plans to replant some trees in those areas where they were harvested, since there has been deforestation?

 

Ms Kapata: Sir, normally, where there is one mature mukula tree, you will find not less than ten smaller mukula trees around it. So, the issue of wiping out the mukula tree does not arise.

 

Mr Speaker, let me also inform this august House that the Research Unit under the Department of Forestry in the ministry and the University of Zambia (Unza) are conducting a research on the propagation of mukula and, so far, the ones that have been planted on a 2 ha field on the Copperbelt are growing very well. If the tree continues to grow well, we hope to plant more in the different provinces where it thrives.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: In case the hon. Member for Mapatizya is considering investing in a mukula plantation, he should be reminded the tree takes eighty years to mature.

 

Laughter

 

Mrs Langa (Chilanga): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement on the mukula tree and its protection. My question is: Is the hon. Minister in a position to know the combined tonnage of the mukula tree that was sold after being confiscated from illegal traders and that which is still in the custody of the police in the country?

 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I think I said I do not know the tonnage in response to an earlier question. I also promised to bring the information to the House later.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

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BILLS

 

FIRST READING

 

THE CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUND BILL, 2018

 

The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Constituency Development Fund Bill, National Assembly Bill No.9 of 2018. The objects of the Bill are:

 

  1. to provide for the disbursement, management, utilisation and accountability of the Constituency Development Fund established under the Constitution;

 

  1. establish Constituency Development Fund Committees in constituencies and provide for their composition and functions; and

 

  1. provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Local Governments Accounts.

 

The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 23rd November, 2018.

 

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

 

THE BORDER MANAGEMENT AND TRADE FACILITATION BILL, 2018

 

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled The Border Management and Trade Facilitation Bill, National Assembly Bill No.10 of 2018. The objects of the Bill are to provide for the following:

 

  1. co-ordinated border management and control for the efficient movement and clearance of goods;

 

  1. give effect to the provisions of agreements on one-stop border posts;

 

  1. provide for simplified arrangements with adjoining States relating to the movement and clearance of goods;

 

  1. establish control zones and provide for powers of officers in control zones;

 

  1. provide for the development, management and maintenance of border infrastructure;

 

  1. authorise the application of the Laws of Zambia and the laws of adjoining States in one-stop border posts;

 

  1. repeal and replace the One-Stop Border Control Act, 2009; and

 

  1. provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

 

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on National Economy, Trade and Labour Matters.

 

The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to House on Friday, 23rd November, 2018.

 

Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

 

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COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

VOTE 13/01 – (Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs – Human Resource and Administration Department – K117,779,703).

 

(Consideration resumed)

 

The Deputy Chairperson: When business was interrupted on Wednesday, 31st October, 2018, the Committee of Supply on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Year 1st January to 31st December, 2019, presented to the National Assembly in September, 2018, was considering Head 13 – Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, and Mr Munkonge was debating.

 

May the hon. Member continue his debate.

 

Mr Munkonge (Lukashya): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Vote on the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. Before I continue, let me pass my condolences to the Kankasa and the Chibesakunda families on the death of Mama Kankasa.

 

Mr Chairperson, from the outset, I would like to state that I support this Vote. If it were possible, I would prefer that the allocation to this important ministry be increased.

 

Sir, there is a road in Longacres called Chilekwa Mwamba Road, which is named after a man who contributed to the struggle for freedom by helping some politicians to move around northern Zambia far as Chinsali, Chienge and Chembe. The road is President Kaunda’s acknowledgement of the man’s contribution to the freedom struggle.

 

Sir, in 1964 when we got Independence, Mr Chilekwa Mwamba’s official title was Senior Chief Munkonge. What I am trying to get at is that chiefs have been participating in our politics for a long time. The chiefs also sacrificed some of their powers to allow Zambia to exist in its current form. That contribution was made by not only Mr Chilekwa Mwamba or Senior Chief Munkonge, but also by other chiefs, including those in the Southern Province. The Litunga in the Western Province also signed away the Barotseland Protectorate to allow Zambia to exist in its current form.

 

Mr Chairperson, when there are discussions on chiefs’ role in our country, some people give the impression that our chiefs just sit idly in their palaces. However, their contribution today and in the past cannot be ignored. For example, issues that may come before us, such as the Land Reform Bill that might come before us, will have greater effect if they have the support of the chiefs. It is also important to acknowledge that the chiefs are Zambians. Sometimes, we talk about them in abstract terms as if they came from nowhere and are going nowhere. However, they are part of our country, and it is the responsibility of the Government of the Republic of Zambia to protect their interests. We may not involve them or may feel that we have reached the stage at which their importance is not as great as it used to be, but I ask people to acknowledge or appreciate their sacrifices whose fruits we are enjoying now.

 

Sir, we could have had a feudal system in 1964, which would have put Zambia in the same situation as some of the countries where there are people fighting for small portions of great countries. It is in this regard that the challenge of how to separate politics from the chiefs arises? I have heard issues of invitations being withdrawn, but we have put chiefs in an awkward position. They have to strike a balance between acknowledging the Government of the day and the safety of the people. There have been examples of situations in which if matters had not been handled properly, we could have lost lives at a scale that could, perhaps, have led us to dimensions farther than where we are now. Luckily, even the security forces showed discipline and a situation that could have blown out of proportion was controlled. That demonstrated the importance of chiefs.

 

Mr Chairperson, there have been arguments of chiefs giving away land. However, traditionally, the land is theirs. Yes, they have subjects ‒ and that is a terrible term ‒ but the subjects live on their land. That is our tradition. Therefore, in supporting this Vote, I urge the hon. Minister to ensure that chiefs are protected, sometimes, even from themselves. The right to be a chief is a birthright. So, sometimes, we cannot control the quality of leadership of a chief. Therefore, the ministry has to find a way to help improve the quality of our chiefs, including through education. I know that in some Western countries, there are scholarships for potential chiefs aimed at improving the quality of both the leadership and, perhaps, basic academic competence of the chiefs. So, if it is possible, such things should be put in place.

 

Sir, I fear that our history is being rewritten or written badly, and is subject to manipulation. So, I urge the ministry to correct the record of our history. We also need to find creative ways of dealing with the issue of funds. Since chiefs control huge portions of land, we could come up with ways in which they could benefit from the transactions in land. Several mines may fall within a chiefdom, but the area chief might not be the richest in the country. Another chief might have less land, yet be one of the richest because of having powers over that land. We must work very hard to empower the chiefs and, if possible, wean them from their dependence on the Government. That way, they will stay above the politics of the day and play their traditional role of guiding their people and, hopefully, the country.

 

Mr Tembo: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Munkonge: Mr Chairperson, I do not know if this is unique to the Northern Province, but there is a noticeable gender dimension to chieftaincy. In the entire Northern Province, there is no recognised female chief. There is Chieftainess Chanda Mukulu, Chieftainess Kasonde Chisuna, Chieftainess Mumbi Mfumu and Chieftainess Mumbi Mukulu, to mention but a few. We talk about gender balancing here and how we want to empower women, yet no single chieftainess in the Northern Province is recognised by the Government. Surely, in 2018, we can find means of expediting the recognition of the chieftainesses. Chieftainess Chanda Mukulu is called the Queen Mother. So, everybody should be recognised.

 

Mr Livune: What about Ngoshe Mukote?

 

Mr Munkonge: I am talking about the chieftainesses I know.

 

Mr Munkonge laughed.

 

This takes me back to my point on the politicising of some of these issues. We are putting the chiefs in an awkward position by placing them in the political arena. A deliberate effort should be made to remove them from there. We, the politicians, contribute to that because we force them to support us openly. While that might work in terms of getting us here, sometimes, we risk weakening the chiefs’ powers when we involve them in political activities.

 

Mr Chairperson, I request the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs to look into how it can get the chiefs to embrace the new Land Policy because the policy is meant to protect future generations of Zambians. In view of our history, which has been rewritten, if we do not engage the chiefs, we will have land disputes in the future due to our failure to secure the interests of Zambians in some areas.

 

Mr Chairperson, having made my main points, let me conclude by saying that I support the ministry’s budget and encouraging the hon. Minister to engage the chiefs so that they become positive contributors to our development and wellbeing.

 

Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: The last person I will allow to debate before the hon. Minister winds up debate is Hon. C. M. Zulu.

 

Mr C. Zulu (Luangeni): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to debate the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, which is an important ministry.

 

Sir, since we are talking about traditional leadership, allow me to quote what Abraham Lincoln, the former President of the United States of America (USA) said some time back:

 

“Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.”

 

Power can be compared to a great river. Within its bounds, a river is both beautiful and useful but, when it overflows its bounds, it is destructive. The danger of power lies in the fact that those who are vested with it tend to make its preservation their first concern. Therefore, they will naturally oppose any changes in the forces that have given them the power. History tells us that power leads to abuse of power and abuse of power leads to loss of power. Let me also quote from the other former President of the USA, Mr George H. W. Bush’s inaugural address:

 

“For we are given power not to advance our own purposes, nor to make a great show in the world, nor a name. There is but one just use of power, and it is to serve the people.”

 

Sir, traditional leaders have been given power from their families. Unfortunately, when they get into power, they tend to abuse it by way of giving funds, burning houses and giving out land illegally.

 

Sir, on the ministry’s budget, the allocation for the construction of the chiefs’ palaces is not adequate. There are five chiefs in my constituency, namely Paramount Chief Mpezeni, Senior Chief Nzamane, Chief Saili, Chief Maguya and Chief Chinyama, and we have only constructed a palace for Paramount Chief Mpezeni. The remaining four are crying foul, saying that the Government does not consider them as chiefs and that it only recognizes Paramount Chief Mpezeni. The budget has dropped from about K18 million to a paltry K2.6 million, which means that what we want to do, that is, construct 288 palaces, will take ages to be achieved. Therefore, the Treasury must look at this aspect, rethink it and, maybe, look for money to build the palaces.

 

Sir, the House of Chiefs is a very important organ because it connects the Government and the traditional leadership. Nationally, the House is supposed to meet twice a year. Thereafter, the chiefs are supposed to hold Provincial Councils of Chiefs where all the chiefs in the provinces meet. This is to enable them to discuss the information from the House of Chiefs so that it trickles down to the communities. The chiefs will, then, take the information to their village headmen who will, in turn, disseminate the information to the subjects. Unfortunately, there is only a budget for the House of Chiefs, meaning that the information from the House of Chiefs will be only for members of the House of Chiefs. This is unfortunate because the people, who are the intended beneficiaries, will not get the information.

 

Sir, like the hon. Minister said in his policy statement, there are many intra and inter-chiefdom disputes, including boundary and succession disputes. It is very unfortunate that there is no allocation for conflict resolution because it means that the conflicts will continue until people start hacking and killing one another. Overlooking such an important matter was a wrong step.

 

Sir, the ministry also looks at the promotion of traditional ceremonies, which are important because they promote the exchange of traditional values and sharing of vital historical information. They also provide avenues for the promotion of unity in diversity in the country, as they are a unifying factor. Unfortunately, again, there is a huge reduction in the allocation to traditional ceremonies from K1 million to K670,000.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

 

Mr C. Zulu: This means that there will be no Government representation at traditional ceremonies, which is unfortunate.

 

Mr Chairperson, the documentation of traditions is also important. It is imperative for us to document what happens during ceremonies for the current and the future generations. Unfortunately, there has been very little money allocated to the relevant programme.

 

Sir, I do not want to take a lot of time. However, let me quote Sam Regan’s advice to Harry S. Truman, another former President of the USA, when Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR) died. He said:

 

“From, here on out, you are going to have lots of people around you. You have taken over the presidency and you are going to have a lot of people around you. These people will build a wall around you and cut you off from any new ideas apart from theirs, those that are around you. They will even tell you what great a man you are but, for sure, Harry, you and I know that you are not a great man.”

 

Mr Chairperson, Hubert H. Humphrey said:

 

“There is no party, no chief executive, no Cabinet, no legislature in this or any other nation, wise enough to govern without constant exposure to informed criticism.”

 

 So, we must be ready to be criticised as long as the criticism is informed because this statement is true of any person who occupies a leadership position, including us.

                                   

 Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

 

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mr Sichalwe): Sir, in thanking the various hon. Members who have debated my Vote, I wish to respond to some issues they have raised.

 

Sir, Hon. Mweetwa expressed happiness over the traditional leadership’s gracing of traditional ceremonies of other tribes. That is a result of a deliberate effort by the Government to encourage traditional leaders to unite the country through cultural exchanges. In the same vein, allow me to state that traditional ceremonies are not Government functions, but functions for the royal establishments. Thus, it is not right for Hon. Mweetwa to say that the National Democratic Congress (NDC) Consultant was stopped from attending the Ukusefya pa Ng'wena Ceremony by the Government. That is far from the truth. The truth is that the Bemba Royal Establishment (BRE) informed the NDC Consultant that it was not ready to host him at the ceremony.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Sichalwe: You can question me, but that is the truth.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Sichalwe: Sir, Hon. Mweetwa also raised issues on land and stated that chiefs needed to be oriented. The chiefs are well aware that their limit for land consent is 250 ha. Nevertheless, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources is adequately handling this matter in the National Land Policy.

 

Sir, Hon. Chaatila raised a concern over reduced allocations in the ministry’s budget. In particular, he is concerned about the reduction of the budget for the construction of chiefs’ palaces from K18.2 million to K2.7 million, and wonders whether the allocation would be sufficient to complete the ten palaces whose construction is above 80 per cent. Unfortunately, we are guided by the resource envelope. We can only spend what we have, not more. I wish to remind the House that in my policy statement, I indicated that K18.2 million was allocated for the current year, but only K8.6 million has been released to date, representing 47.5 per cent of the allocation. Therefore, we expect more releases in the current Budget, as that will help us go a long way in completing the palaces, hence the allocation of K2.7 million in 2019.

 

Sir, Hon. Chaatila also raised concerns about some forest reserves. I wish to mention that forest reserves are gazetted by law and, unless they are degazetted, they will remain so. Therefore, I urge the hon. Member to engage the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources to look into the issue of those who have encroached on the forest reserves.

 

Sir, Hon. Mbulakulima’s major concern was about succession wrangles, and he urged the ministry to move the cases from the courts to the House of Chiefs. If I may enlighten the hon. Member, unfortunately, our hands are tied over issues before the courts. There is nothing much we can do until the due court process is exhausted. Article 165 has compounded the situation in that the Government is precluded from being involved in succession wrangles. Nevertheless, the ministry has engaged the House of Chiefs, which has constituted a committee that is handling most of the succession wrangles. For instance, in the policy statement, I mentioned the Mulakwa and Fwambo succession case, which was handled by the House of Chiefs. The House of Chiefs has also started documenting family trees, which will go a long way in minimising succession wrangles.

 

Sir, Hon. Mbulakulima also raised a concern over retainers’ wages not being paid in good time or being misapplied by local councils. The retainers’ wages are paid after salaries of council workers have been paid at the end of the month. So, basically, the retainers’ salaries come as the end expenditure, which might make them look as though they are delayed. In taking note this concern, I wish to state that retainers get grants, not salaries. However, we are already looking into the possibility of paying the retainers’ grants directly into their accounts.

 

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Kabanda raised an issue on the reduced allocation for the construction of chiefs’ palaces, which I have addressed in responding to Hon. Chaatila’s concerns. I have also addressed the issue of succession wrangles in responding to Hon. Mbulakulima’s concerns.

 

Sir, Hon. Katuta expressed a concern about retainers not being paid allowances when they accompany chiefs. I wish to state that all retainers are paid only on official invitations of the chiefs, not private visits or personal errands for chiefs. In such cases, the chief must pay the retainer.

 

Hon. Katuta also raised suggested that indunas and ministry officials participate in negotiations over development projects with investors. Pursuant to Article 168(3), we are looking at means of establishing chiefdom trusts that will ensure that the entire chiefdoms benefit from the exploitation of resources in the various chiefdoms.

 

Sir, Hon. Munkonge’s major concern has been covered in my response to Hon. Katuta. I further wish to enlighten him that we have recognised a chieftainess in the Northern Province, namely Senior Chieftainess Chungu of Luwingu District. I also wish to inform him that succession to the various thrones is dependent on the cultures, customs and traditions of the chiefdoms.

 

Sir, Hon. Zulu raised an issue on the construction of chief’s palaces and cried foul over the fact that the chiefs in his area have not been catered for. I wish to mention that the construction of chief’s palaces has been phased. In the Eastern Province, we have completed and handed over a palace to Paramount Chief Mpezeni. In Sinda, Chieftainess Nyanje’s Palace has been completed and awaits a handover. A third palace was supposed to be constructed for Paramount Chief Gawa Undi. Unfortunately, we still have not been given a site.

 

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I thank all those who have supported the Vote for my ministry.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

VOTE 13/01 – (Ministry of Chiefs and Tradition AffairsHeadquarters – K42,053,688).

 

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5011, Activity 323 – Rehabilitation of Offices of Provincial and District Levels – K66,880, which had no allocation in 2018. How many provinces are earmarked to benefit from the amount provided?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5011, Activity 323 – Rehabilitation of Offices of Provincial and District Levels – K66,880 is meant for the rehabilitation of offices at all levels of the ministry’s service delivery. As at now, I cannot pinpoint the province that will need this Activity.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Chairperson, on Programme 5192, Activity 001 – Support to Districts ‒ Nil, there no provision for next year. However, in answering the previous question, the hon. Minister said there is money for the districts. Could he clarify this situation.

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr. Chairperson, Programme 5192, Activity 001 – Support to Districts ‒ Nil has not been allocated any amount due to the aggregate ceiling. Further, the support mentioned here is different from that for rehabilitation mentioned in the previous Activity.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5001, Activity 152 – Protocol Services – Nil. Could the hon. Minister explain why there is no provision for this important Activity in 2019.

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Chairperson, the non-allocation of resources to Programme 5001, Activity 152 – Protocol Services – Nil is due to the realignment of the Activity to Activity 003 – Office Administration – K350,001.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5011, Activity 232 – Rehabilitation of Offices at Provincial and District Levels – K66,880. This is a follow-up on the question by Hon. Nanjuwa.

 

Sir, the hon. Minister has not told us the districts that are supposed to benefit from this Activity, yet this is an Activity-Based Budget (OBB). Why has the hon. Minister failed to tell us the beneficiary districts?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Minister has already answered that question. However, if he has additional information, he may answer the question.  Maybe, he can repeat his answer.

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5011, Activity 232 – Rehabilitation of Offices at Provincial and District Levels – K66,880 is meant to facilitate minor rehabilitation works on offices at all levels. However, we cannot anticipate where the minor rehabilitations will be required.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Mwashingwele (Katuba): Mr Chairperson, Programme 5002, Activity 008 – Exhibition and Shows – Nil and Activity 053 – State Functions – Nil have both not been allocated funds for 2019, but they were funded in 2018. Why have the Activities not been funded?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Chairperson, the non-allocation of funds to Programme 5002, Activity 008 – Exhibition and Shows – Nil and Activity 053 – State Functions – Nil is due to a reprioritisation of funds to other programmes and activities in the ministry.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5192, Activity 001 – Support to Districts – Nil. This ministry is represented in each district through one or two staff allocated to carry out its mandate. In 2019, not even K1 has been allocated to support the activities of the ministry in districts. Is the hon. Minister serious and sure that officers in the districts are going to assist the ministry carry out the traditional affairs in the districts without funds?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member may wish to know that we have provincial administrations in these provinces. So, where we will lag behind, we will certainly be supported by the provincial administrations.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Vote 13/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 13/02 – (Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional AffairsHuman Resources and Administration – K22,658,302).

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, no allocations have been made for Programme 5009, Activity 005 – Financial Management Systems/IFMIS – Nil, Activity 010 – Production of Financial Reports – Nil, Activity 011 – Review and Expenditure Tracking – Nil, Activity 028 – Response to General Audits – Nil, and Programme 5008, Activity 005 – General Audits – Nil, Activity 008 – Verification Audits – Nil, Activity 020 – Audit of Projects – Nil. Why does the ministry want to run away from being audited? Does it not want accountability?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5009, Activity 005 – Financial Management Systems/IFMIS – Nil, Activity 010 – Production of Financial Reports – Nil, Activity 011 – Review and Expenditure Tracking – Nil, Activity 028 – Response to General Audits – Nil, and Programme 5008, Activity 005 – General Audits – Nil, Activity 008 – Verification Audits – Nil, Activity 020 – Audit of Projects – Nil have been realigned to Vote 13/07 – Finance Department.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5026, Activity 048 – Staff Audit – K222,870. What type of audit is this? Is it about counting the members of staff? Why has such a colossal provision been made for this Activity?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Sir, Programme 5026, Activity 048 – Staff Audit – K222,870 is meant to facilitate the reconciliation of the payroll with officers’ physical work stations. The increase is due to an upscaling of the Activity.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Vote 13/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 13/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 13/05 – (Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional AffairsChiefs and Traditional Affairs Department – K46,944,981).

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Chair! Chair!

 

Mr Sing’ombe: It is me, Sir.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Yes, I am checking, but I have not –

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: No, I think you indicated late. So, let us follow one another very well, and do not indicate before I get to a new Vote. Otherwise, I will not recognise you if you indicate before I get to a new Vote. I am on Vote 13/05 – Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs – Chiefs and Traditional Affairs Department – K46,944,981.

 

Mr Mutelo: Sir, I seek clarification on Programme 5117, Activity 002 – Printing of 1958 Boundary and Topographical Maps – Nil, Activity 012 – Chiefs’ Welfare – K154,000 and Programme 5011, Activity 238 – Construction of Chiefs’ Palaces – K2,664,231, Activity 239 – Rehabilitation of Chiefs’ Palaces – Nil. Can the hon. Minister clarify what is happening here?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Have you got the question, hon. Minister?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Sir, the hon. Member has not specified the Activity on which he is seeking clarification. However, Programme 5117, Activity – 002 – Printing of 1958 Boundary and Topographical Maps – Nil has no allocation because it has already been undertaken. The decrease in the allocation to Programme 5011, Activity 012 – Chief’s Welfare – K154,000 is due to some Activities, such as the distribution of retainers’ uniforms, having been undertaken in 2018. 

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on why for 2019, there is no allocation to Programme 5128, Activity 002 – Chiefdom Profiling – Nil. Does it mean that this Activity has also been undertaken? If so, could the hon. Minister confirm that if I went to the ministry, I would get a profile for any chiefdom.

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5128, Activity 002 – Chiefdom Profiling – Nil is meant to facilitate the identification and compilation of natural, cultural and socio-economic endowments in the chiefdoms. The non-allocation of resources is due to the re-alignment of the Activity to the relevant sector ministry.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Chairperson, the allocation to Programme 5005, Activity 400 – Chiefs Subsidies – K42,990,000 has been reduced from K43,090,000 in 2018 to K42,990,000 in 2019. Will the number of chiefs reduce in 2019? Secondly, why has the allocation to Programme 5130, Activity 008 – Sensitisation on the Fight Against Child Marriage – K30,000 been reduced from K100,000 in 2018 to K30,000 in 2019? In my constituency, child marriages are rampant.

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5005, Activity 400 – Chiefs Subsidies – K42,990,000 is required to facilitate the payment of chiefs subsidies. The reduction is due to the realignment of retainers’ National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) contributions to Vote 13/02, Programme 5005, Activity 401 – Retainers Wages − K19,510,000.

 

Sir, the reduction in the allocation to Programme 5130, Activity 008 – Sensitisation on the Fight Against Child Marriage – K30,000 is due to the realignment of resources to high-impact programmes and activities.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Vote 13/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 13/06 – (Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional AffairsPlanning, Research and Information Department – K972,600).

 

Ms Mwashingwele: Mr Chairperson, why are there no allocations to Programme 5010, Activity 049 – Updating of Website – Nil, Activity 063 – Management and Maintenance of LAN/WAN – Nil and Activity 070 – Management Information System Development – Nil? Does it mean that there will be no update of the website for traditional rulers and development of a management information system in 2019?

 

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5010, Activity 049 – Updating of Website – Nil, Activities 063 – Management and Maintenance of LAN/WAN – Nil and 070 – Management Information System Development – Nil are required to facilitate the hosting and maintenance of the ministry’s website. However, you may wish to note that we have now moved to being a smart Zambia. So, the non-allocation of resources is due to the fact that the Activities will be undertaken by the Smart Zambia Institute.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Vote 13/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 13/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 26 – (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting – K540,462,593).

 

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Ms Siliya): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to issue the policy statement for the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services.

 

Sir, my ministry’s mandate is derived from Gazette Notice No. 836 of 2016. The ministry is responsible for the following:

 

  1. broadcasting and television services;

 

  1. cinematography policy;

 

  1. information and media policy; and

 

  1. theatre policy.

 

Sir, the ministry also oversees the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA), the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) and the Zambia Institute of Mass Communication Education Trust (Zamcom).

 

Sir, the ministry has embarked on a restructuring programme to create capacity and position itself to more effectively and efficiently discharge its mandate.

 

Mr Chairperson, as you are aware, the ZNBC is the oldest, widest and largest radio and television service provider. It was established in 1987 through an Act of Parliament that was enacted to transform the Zambia Broadcasting Services (ZBS) from being a Government department under the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services into the statutory body it now is.

 

Sir, the ZNBC transmits across three radio channels, namely Radio 1, Radio 2 and Radio 4, and three television channels, namely ZNBC 1, ZNBC 2 and ZNBC 3.

 

Sir, to date, the IBA has licensed 115 radio stations and forty-five television stations, leading to the existence of a vibrant broadcasting sector in Zambia. Further, since 2016, the Government has invested in digital broadcasting technology, that is, in fifty-five out of seventy-two transmitters and an end-to-end digital network, resulting in a crystal clear television signal, wider coverage and reduced business and subscription costs in our country. The Government has further invested in the construction of six provincial broadcasting studios in Mongu, Chipata, Kabwe, Mansa, Chinsali and Kasama. Works on the studios in Solwezi and Choma are also expected to resume soon. The Five Hundred Village Television Programme continues to increase access to television among our citizens in rural areas.

 

Sir, the investment in digital technology has created a need for more content, especially local content. Our investment in provincial production houses is expected to provide affordable audio and video dubbing facilities. Further, the Government, through Zamcom, has partnered with Multi-Choice Africa in the Talent Factory Project. The project is providing training in film-making in Zambia and the region. Additionally, a new platform for showing Zambia’s content is available on Zambezi Magic, with programmes like “Zuba” and “Dorika” being among the most popular. There is also international interest in Zambia as a film production location, with films like “Black Panther” having been partially filmed in the country. We expect this to continue. There are also increasing local private sector efforts in our film industry through initiatives like the Sotambe Film Festival on the Copperbelt Province.

 

Sir, the ministry is also responsible for Government communication and for receiving feedback from citizens. It is also responsible for show-casing to citizens socio-economic development programmes being implemented in the country by the Government. This function is part of accountability in a democracy. The Zambia News and Information Services (Zanis), the ZNBC, as the signal carrier, and other media are used for that purpose. Additionally, Parliament Television was introduced to enhance accountability to the people through information dissemination.

 

Sir, generally, the media industry in Zambia has continued to flourish. There are eleven print publications, including the Zambia Daily Mail and the Times of Zambia. With the convergence of technology, these traditional publications have been disrupted by the new media. Today, citizens can access information and entertainment through online newspapers and web logs (blogs), Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, Instagram, Snapchat, and WeChat. These are all known as social media. The new technology has also challenged traditional journalists and the way information and news are gathered and disseminated. The traditional radio set, television set, video camera, still camera and even the computer have collapsed into the mobile phone, creating citizen journalists who can now gather information and broadcast it whether it is factual or fake. As a ministry, we have welcomed the new technology, but are also concerned about its abuse. So, we are working with other stakeholders on regulations and laws to protect citizens from fake news, hate speech, cyber bullying, stalking and other vices that are detrimental to the healthy development of our nation. We are also mindful of the need to protect children from harmful social sites.

 

Mr Speaker, media practitioners in Zambia and everywhere else, as gatekeepers, have a huge responsibility to report ethically and fairly. In this regard, my ministry has engaged media practitioners on the creation of a self-regulating body that will set education and practice standards for journalists in the country. This is the best practice internationally not just in the media, but also in the other professions like law, medicine and teaching.

 

Sir, the Access to Information Bill, also known as the Citizens Bill, is now at the Ministry of Justice for final evaluation. The Government believes that citizens have the right to information relevant to their decision-making in a democracy.

 

Sir, in our Turn-around Strategy, the ministry will begin to work with the private sector, especially information and communication technology (ICT) companies like mobile service providers, and banks to support script writing and production of theatre performances in our country. I now turn to the budget.

                                                             

Sir, in 2019, the ministry has been allocated K540,462,593, of which K468,851,205 is the projected drawdown from the loan for Phases 2 and 3 of the Digital Migration Project. The ministry will continue to provide grants to the IBA and Zamcom. It will also continue funding the implementation of other projects, such as the Rural Frequency Modulation (FM) Radio Project, to ensure that more citizens have access to radio reception.

 

Sir, I request all hon. Members of Parliament to support the budget for my ministry.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to debate the Vote for the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting.

 

Sir, from the outset, I would like to make it very clear that I am very reluctant to support this Vote, and I will justify this position.

 

Sir, the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services has contributed to the tension in the country. It has also contributed to the lack of proper governance in the country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, the ministry oversees the operations of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), Times of Zambia and the Zambia Daily Mail, which have consistently abrogated Article 50 of the Constitution of Zambia, which I quote for ease of reference:

 

“A political party and a candidate contesting an election shall have access to the media, especially during election campaigns.”

 

Sir, we have noted with concern that the ministry has been abusing the rights of political parties and candidates who contest elections in this country. In most instances, when there are election campaigns, the ZNBC, the Times of Zambia and the Zambia Daily Mail do not cover the Opposition and, although issues have been raised with the ministry, no action has been taken. Opposition political parties have raised issues with the editors of the Times of Zambia, the Zambia Daily Mail and the ZNBC to no avail. The three institutions were even taken to court and judgments obtained against them, but they have refused to cover the Opposition in this country. I am singling out the three media houses because they are financed by taxpayers. We all contribute towards the running of the institutions. So, we have the right to be covered by them.

 

Sir, as I speak, there is a Parliamentary by-election in Mangango and some local government by-elections, but the only candidates being covered are those representing the Patriotic Front (PF) or the party’s surrogates, contrary to the provisions of the law.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: It is incumbent upon the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting to ensure that the three taxpayer-funded institutions abide by the law.

 

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Those who monitored the last general elections have also lamented the bias of the three institutions, but nothing has been done to ensure fairness.

 

Mr Livune: That is right!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: As I indicated earlier, these institutions have been fuelling tension in this country. Whenever hate speech and comments that cast the Opposition in bad light are published, the Opposition is not given the right of rebuttal. As a result, members of the public are being given a one-sided story. Those who are being abused are not given an opportunity to defend themselves through the public media. This should not be allowed to continue.

 

Mr Chairperson, we chose to be a multi-party democracy in 1991, and we should be seen to be a democracy that allows the expression of divergent views. That is how democracy thrives. However, we have been seeing a very consistent position on the part of the ministry, and I am mentioning the ministry because it is the hon. Minister who is accountable on the Floor of this House and superintends over the institutions I have mentioned. We look forward to a situation in which everyone is accorded an equal opportunity to be covered on television and radio, and in the print media. That has not been the situation, and what happened in the 2016 Elections was a testimony to what I am saying. There was a blackout of the Opposition as if we were a one-party State. That should not be allowed to continue if we want democracy to thrive.

 

Mr Chairperson, last week, the hon. Minister came to this House to rebut the alleged merger of the ZNBC and StarTimes. She categorically stated that the two institutions had not merged, insisting that the ZNBC had not been merged with any other authority. However, I have seen a statement issued by the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC) on 19th October, 2018, and signed by the Chairperson, Mr Kelvin Bwalya Fube. The heading of the statement is “CCPC Grants Conditional Merger to ZNBC and StarTimes”, and it reads:

 

“The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission has granted a conditional authorisation to the proposed merger between the Zambian National Broadcasting Cooperation (ZNBC) and Hantex International Corporation Limited, which is controlled by StarTimes International Holdings Limited (StarTimes International). This follows an application for the merger of the two entities to the commission by the two on 20th June, 2018.”

 

I am not the one who authored this document, as I am not Kelvin Bwalya Fube or the CCPC.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: You will never be.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I quoted what the legal entity that authorises mergers in the country stated. As far as I am concerned, there was an application to merge the two institutions and, when you merge two institutions, they become one. The hon. Minister should not refute what I am saying. Instead, she should refute what her institution has told the country.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: The CCPC says that the merger will end after the company from China collects all its money.

 

Mr Nkombo: In twenty years!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: It is not me who is saying this. So, as far as the commission and I are concerned, the ZNBC has merged with Hantex, a Chinese company and, when you merge, you become one.

 

Mr Nkombo: It is holy matrimony.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: It is like a marriage. When you marry, you become one.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, as far as the people of Zambia are concerned, the ZNBC has merged with Hantex, and the merger is a result of the Government’s failure to pay its debt. That is what the document says.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: You refute what the Chairperson has said.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Mr Syakalima: Read! Is it beyond your comprehension?

 

Mr Ngulube: Lay it on the Table!

 

Mr Mwiinga: Iwe, ka Tutwa, iwe!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, I want the hon. Minister to refute the CCPC’s statement and tell the Chairperson of the commission that it was wrong of him to have issued the statement. She should refute the claim in the document that an application for the merger of Hantex and the ZNBC had been made. I have no intention of laying the document on the Table because it is in the public domain. However, I ask the Chair to take judicial notice of the existence of the letter, which was published in the media and the hon. Minister quoted from it. What we are saying is that the Government has been irresponsible in borrowing and it has failed to sustain its debts. As a result, it has entered into an arrangement that has merged our company with a foreign company for purposes of paying a debt.

 

Mr Chairperson, I am very reluctant to support this Motion for the reasons given. In particular, there is no point for us in the Opposition to keep funding the three institutions when they do not benefit us. If you tuned in to the ZNBC 365 days in a year, you would not hear it cover the Opposition even once. It will not cover my President, Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: The only time it covers him is when it insults him. It gives him only negative coverage. So, unless the hon. Minister can give me valid reasons to change my mind, I will not support this Motion.

 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili (Roan): Sir, I thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor.

 

Mr Speaker, for the sake of the employees of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), the Times of Zambia and the Zambia Daily Mail who are innocent victims of political manipulations insofar as the covering of all citizens is concerned, I will support this Motion so that they can be paid their salaries. Otherwise, I would not have supported it.

 

Mr Chairperson, when I was a Minister, I was on the Sunday Interview almost after every fortnight. However, I applied to appear on the programme after my brother, HH (Mr Hakainde Hichilema), had applied, but the ZNBC has refused to host me. Why should the Government be scared of divergent views? Why should it be scared of other people communicating with the nation on where they feel this country is going or how it should be governed? It is a shame!

 

Sir, when you watch the South African Broadcasting Corporation (SABC) or eTV, both of which are public institutions in South Africa, you will see Malema, Mmusi Maimane and many other Opposition leaders featured. What is it that these people are hiding in refusing to cover the Opposition in this country?

 

Sir, when people complain, the reasonable thing to do is listen. Some of my colleagues are saying that I was a Minister. If they asked the officials in that ministry, they would be told that I always asked the officers to cover everybody. When I was in the ministry, there was some interference from somewhere but, at least, I withstood the pressure and the Opposition was covered once in a while.

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Kambwili: That is a fact. I am surprised that Hon. Lubinda can be one of those laughing because when he was in the Opposition, every day, he debated on the ZNBC not covering the Opposition.

 

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, Hon. Dr Kambwili!

 

Please, give me a minute.

 

Hon. Minister of Justice, I will not allow your point of order.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Lubinda: Anikamba dzina.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Resume your seat, hon. Minister.

 

Hon. Dr Kambwili, avoid naming some hon. Members to avoid their raising points of order so that we do not waste time.

 

 Continue, hon. Member.

 

Dr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, what I am stating is a fact. When some people who are in the Government today were on your left in 2006, they debated the issue of the ZNBC and the Times of Zambia so passionately that they even wanted to cry on the Floor of the House.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili: Why do people change when they get into Government?

 

Laughter

 

Dr Kambwili: They must be ashamed of themselves. Some of them must not even laugh over this issue. Did they enjoy what the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) did to them for them to do the same to others?

 

Mr Livune: Quality!

 

Dr Kambwili: History teaches us best practices. Thus, I expected the Patriotic Front (PF) to do much better on this score, but it has become worse. We mingle with journalists, and they tell us things. I hold three or four press conferences every month, but not even one has been covered on the ZNBC. Our colleagues think the boys do not tell us. However, they say, “If I cover you, tomorrow, I will be packing to the village”. So, we know what our colleagues do, and I ask them to just stop for the better of this country because whatever goes up must come down. I was a Minister but, today, I am in the Backbench.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili: Our colleagues will also not be hon. Ministers for good. They should learn from what happened to me. In this regard, I want to apologise to the people of Zambia for any wrong I may have done when I was a Minister.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili: I apologise.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ebuntu!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Let us pay attention.

 

Dr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, some of the things our colleagues think will be there for good will pass. I left the ministry but, when I go there, officials still stand up for me and say, “Welcome, hon. Minister”. Some of the current hon. Ministers will never be welcomed once they are no longer Ministers because imitima yabo yalibipa, meaning their hearts are so bad that they treat other people like they are not human beings. Let me tell them, however, that posterity will judge them very harshly. There is no explanation whatsoever for covering PF chaps; cadres inciting ‒

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

 

Do not debate your friends in this House. Debate the Budget.

 

Dr Kambwili: Parliament yalichinja?

 

Laughter

 

Dr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, can I not mention cadres?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, I think that my guidance is quite clear, and I know why I have provided it.

 

Continue debating.

 

Dr Kambwili: Yaba! Mwe Lesa wesu twafweni!

 

Mr Chairperson, I was saying that our colleagues’ behaviour will only make them look unreasonable when they leave office. I expect my dear sister, Ms Dora Siliya, who is now an hon. Minister – She was on the right, then, came to the left and is now back on the right.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili: I really expect her to do something different, having learnt from both sides. I respect her but, unfortunately, she is failing us on this score. So, I urge her to improve. Let us share the platform on the ZNBC, the Times of Zambia and the Zambia Daily Mail.

 

Mr Chairperson, in my language, we say, “Munshebwa aile namashinsha kubuko”, meaning that he who does not accept advice always makes mistakes only to look foolish before other people.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Kambwili: So, to my dear sisters and brothers, this is a loving and friendly warning that I am giving them because I have been where they are and I am now here. If they want, they should not listen to me, but they will feel it when they come on this side. People who watch the ZNBC know that the first item on the headlines will be the President, then, Her Honour the Vice-President and on to the PF cadres until the end of the news, yet there are many developmental issues being discussed in the country that are not covered by the station. That is painful to see. No wonder, the ZNBC is losing out on advertising revenue while Muvi TV and Prime TV are doing very well in that regard. The people have shifted. Even the PF pays for coverage on Prime TV. Is it not ashamed of itself?

 

Mr Machila: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili: I have seen PF officials and hon. Ministers on Prime TV because they know that is what people watch today.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili: The public broadcaster is losing its viewership because of being biased?

 

Mr Livune: Shemuna bane!

 

Dr Kambwili: People are tired of seeing the same faces every day.

 

Mr Chairperson, let me come to the issue of StarTimes.

 

Sir, for once, my brothers in Government should just accept that the StarTimes/TopStar deal is a scandal.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Mr Mwamba: You started it.

 

Dr Kambwili: It is such a big scandal that they must just accept it. You see, when they tell lies, they cannot repeat it three times consistently. Last week, the hon. Minister said here that the ZNBC/TopStar deal was single-sourced. Two days ago, the Chairperson of the ZNBC Board said there were nine competitors.

 

Mr Nkombo: You see now.

 

Dr Kambwili: I do not know if I got the hon. Minister correctly when she said that what TopStar had brought to the table is that the programme of the Government had been only limited to the line of rail while TopStar brought in extra money to reach the rural areas. That is not true.

 

Mr Mung’andu: You are the one saying it.

 

Dr Kambwili: It is an excellent lie. The whole programme has been implemented using the US$273 million loan. What makes me upset is the fact that to digitalise four provinces, we spent US$9 million yet, for the remaining six provinces, we spent US$273 million.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Shame!

 

Dr Kambwili: What mathematics did we use? There was no engineer’s estimate to gauge whether to accept the US$273 million. StarTimes just said it would charge us US$273 million and our colleagues accepted the loan.

 

Sir, I am not very sure, but I think the hon. Minister said the liability for repaying the loan has been put on TopStar, a special purpose vehicle created by StarTimes and the ZNBC. That is also an excellent lie because the loan was contracted by the Government of the Republic of Zambia.

 

Princess Kucheka: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili: The StarTimes/ZNBC joint venture came after the loan had already been contracted. So, how can one say that the loan was given to TopStar? Our colleagues are changing stories every time because it is a scandal they cannot clean up.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili: The only way it can be resolved is through an inquiry into why we should spend US$273 million and, then, the same contractor – I mean, country men and women, let us face it.

 

Ms Katuta: Ulula!

 

Dr Kambwili: We get a loan to implement a project and give the money to a contractor. The contractor implements the project using our money and, later, says, “I want to run this with you. I will have 60 per cent while you will get 40 per cent”. What nonsense!

 

Hon. PF Members: Ah!

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Kambwili: Surely, …

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, withdraw the word “nonsense”.

 

Dr Kambwili: Okay, it does not make sense.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Kambwili: So, I do not understand. That is why I washed my hands from this project. Now, the different Ministers who go to the ministry keep saying different things. I know everything and, when the inquiry commences, I will be the first witness.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili: Let us not cheat the people of Zambia.

 

Mr Mwiinga: Ema whistleblowers, aba!

 

Dr Kambwili: This is a scandal and, no matter how our colleagues try to cover it up, it will never be cleaned up …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

 

Dr Kambwili: …because a scandal remains a scandal.

 

Sir, I feel bad that we keep giving grants to the ZNBC, which also takes all the money from the Television Levy, yet we only get two free channels on the TopStar bouquet, namely Parliament Television and ZNBC Television 1.

 

Mr Mwiinga: What?

 

Mr Nkombo: Chapwa!

 

Dr Kambwili: For the rest of the channels, we have to pay.

 

Ms Katuta: They will be in Chinese.

 

Dr Kambwili: When we embarked on the Digital Migration Project, one of the promised benefits was that the ZNBC would show more than twenty channels to the people of Zambia.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kambwili: However, we are only showing them two free channels after spending US$273 million. Mukesa kakwa.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, just withdraw the last part, that is, “Mukesa kakwa”.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah, no!

 

Dr Kambwili’s microphone switched off

 

Dr Kambwili: I will not withdraw it. However, I will translate the statement as, “You will go to jail”.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Dr Kambwili, your microphone was off when you spoke.

 

Kindly switch it on and withdraw those words.

 

Dr Kambwili: I am saying that I will not withdraw the statement, which merely means that our colleagues will go to jail.

 

Laughter

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Dr Kambwili, I ordered you to withdraw your statement.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, is it unparliamentary?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: Mulamutakanyafye!

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Kambwili: Is it unparliamentary?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: You are –

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member –

 

Dr Kambwili: Eh!

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Kambwili: Is it unparliamentary?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: No, listen to this.

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Kambwili: I will not withdraw it, I am sorry.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Dr Kambwili …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwiinga:  Kambwili, nalakudabwa, if you withdraw it.

 

Dr Kambwili: I will not withdraw the statement.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: No, listen to this.

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Kambwili: Is it unparliamentary?

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Listen to this.

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Kambwili: I will not withdraw it.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Dr Kambwili …

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Kambwili: I will not withdraw it.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Kambwili, listen to this.

 

Dr Kambwili: I will not withdraw.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: You are judging people, and that is why I said it is not sitting well. Withdraw the statement.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Dr Kambwili.

 

Dr Kambwili: I will not withdraw it.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Dr Kambwili, for the sake of peace in the House, …

 

Hon. UPND Members laughed.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: … I think you should just leave the House.

 

Dr Kambwili: Well and good.

 

Dr Kambwili left the Assembly Chamber.

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Mr Chairperson, I thank you most sincerely for giving me this rare opportunity.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Let us listen to the debate. I think we have to make progress.

 

Mr Mbulakulima: I want to agree that I think we are dealing with a sensitive topic. Globally, the media is a very sensitive issue. I do appreciate that my colleagues who have debated looked at the topic in the local context, which is very important because charity begins at home. However, I want to tackle it from the global view.

 

Mr Chairperson, we can speak the same language except, as the late Mr Mateo Phiri (Mat P) used to say, “Kufunsa sitilesa. Koma kafunsidwe. Kukamba ungakambe, koma kakambindwe”, meaning one can talk, but it matters how you put issues across.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

 

Mr Nkombo: Mwansa, iwe!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Michelo: For the sake of peace.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Go out!

 

Ms Lubezhi: For the sake of peace, go out.

 

Mr Mbulakulima:  For the sake of –

 

Mr Chairperson, what I mean is what I am about to say. History shows that the media is the most effective tool in either reducing or inflating conflict. The media can be a tool for conflict perpetuation. It has the ability to make or break the peace in the world.

 

Mr Michelo: Like under the Patriotic Front (PF).

 

Mr Mbulakulima: That is the way it has been. That is why I said I would take the global view.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was justifying that there should be no divide. However, as we have heard, there have been accusations and counter-accusations. We have heard people say, “Today, you are there. Tomorrow, you will be here” and the other way round. However, how do we handle the media?

 

There is documented evidence that the media has been a source of conflict globally. I think there has been a diversion from the original concept. Traditionally, the three fundamental roles of the media are to educate, inform and entertain. Besides the three fundamental roles, the media helped governments by pressuring them to introduce good policies and respect human rights, and it played that role very well. However, the coming in of the bourgeoisie in the media confused the situation and disturbed the original concept of the media because they introduced the profit motive. Now, there is a disconnection between the owners of the media companies and the journalists who work for them. There is documented evidence to that effect.

 

 Mr Chairperson, how do we handle this issue of the media collectively and without emotions? There is documented evidence that the media inflamed wars in many parts of the world, such as in Kosovo, Slovenia, Rwanda, the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), Pakistan and Iraq. Had it not been for the overzealousness of the media in some cases, those wars could have been prevented. That is a fact. That is why all of us must be concerned regardless of where we are. I want to put down the emotions. The media can diffuse tension in any part of the world, help change attitudes, facilitate communication, educate on conflict resolution, counter misconceptions, build confidence and reduce rumour-mongering. That is the role of the media, and we need to see that.

 

The importance of the media cannot be downplayed, fellow compatriots. The most obvious effect of the media is its ability to increase cognitive knowledge by supplying people with information.

 

Mr Kasandwe: Yeah, teacher wanga. Very good!

 

Mr Mbulakulima: Therein lies potential danger and potential advantage, and that is why we need to handle the media properly.

 

Mr Chairperson, in the recent past ‒ and this is what has forced me to debate this Vote ‒ there has been a realisation by many people and, especially, the United Nations (UN), that the current approach of the media could be dangerous. So, the UN and some concerned Western countries are promoting what they are calling peace journalism and conflict-sensitive journalism after realising that traditional journalism is failing the world. Agencies of development and peace, such as the UN and some individual countries in the West, have dedicated some attention to building the capacity of the news media in States in transition. Fellow compatriots, the media has been polarised partly because of the profit motive. While we condemn the public media, we should not forget that the private media must also play a critical role in national development and peace building. Who can state categorically that the private media has been helpful in this regard? Even in Zambia, we have seen a polarisation of the media. There are extreme left and extreme right media. So, unless we approach this issue with a positive mind and neutrality, we are doomed.

 

Mr Chairperson, at the expense of repeating myself, globally, there are some efforts being made because the world has realised that we must be sympathetic and mindful of what we give to the general public. Therefore, peace journalism must be promoted, and I hope the hon. Minister is working on this matter. Conflict-sensitive journalism and issues like hate speech and gender discrimination are what the world is concerned with. Therefore, they must be addressed through the media.

 

Sir, the world is now encouraging adherence to media ethics because many complications in media issues arise from the conflict between ethical standards and the media companies’ desire to make money out of the conflict. Even in our country today, we have thrown ethics to the wind because media houses want to make profits. Unfortunately, this could be a source of conflict in the country. So, it is my sincere hope that the media in our country will abide by ethical standards, especially that some of the issues that have been highlighted concern the manipulation of news.

 

Mr Chairperson, news manipulation will comein through the pursuit of political expedience and the profit motive of the owners of the media houses. As has been stressed by the UN, the manipulation of news poses dangers in journalism. We should know the truth and how to handle it. It must also be recognised that while a piece of information might be true, we must also look at its sensitivity. The exposure of military secrets, for instance, is not encouraged the world over. Therefore, media organisations cannot insist on their right to report on such matters. As far as the UN is concern, although some sensitive information might be true, we must be mindful that it is not easily disclosed.

 

Sir, it has been emphasised that we should respect individuals and their privacy. As long as we have access to information, we should respect the privacy of individuals because that is the way to go.

 

Mr Chairperson, it is also important to think about taste. In the past, a journalist in Kosovo could show images of even corpses. However, it is now debated whether it is good to report on such issues because while it could be important to show such images, journalists should also be sensitive to the feelings of the audience. So, all these issues are now being reviewed.

 

Sir, in conclusion, I thought I should state that it is not only in Zambia where we might have lost it, but also globally. Therefore, issues of the media must be handled with calm minds.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, let us learn to bring out points concisely so that we allow more hon. Members to debate this Vote. When you have made your points, give chance to others.

 

Ms Mwashingwele: Sir, I appreciate the time you have given to me to add the voice of the people of Katuba and of the United Party for National Development (UPND) to the debate on this Vote. Further, I appreciate the hon. Minister’s policy statement. I will try to be as precise and concise as possible.

 

Sir, in looking at the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, we should realise that the media is considered the Fourth wing of Government. So, when a certain group of people in society is blacked out, it defeats the whole purpose of the existence of the media. That has been the lamentation of my colleagues who debated before me. In this regard, I also appreciate Hon. Mbulakulima’s line of thought because that is the argument we are all putting across. It is, therefore, important that when we are approving money for this ministry, I should be comforted by the knowledge that the ministry will give me an opportunity to articulate the policies of the UPND so that ‒

 

Sir, as stated by the hon. Minister, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) has the widest coverage and is the oldest television and radio station. So, when the opposition political parties are blacked out from its coverage, it means that they are denied one of their rights.

 

Mr Chairperson, in a democracy ‒ our multipartism is not something we stumbled upon. We chose it and agreed on it in this august House, and it was also appreciated by the people of this land. So, if I cannot communicate with the larger population of this country because the ZNBC strongly feels that the Opposition should not be covered, it defeats the purpose.

 

Sir, we are all taxpayers, and it is tax money that funds the ZNBC. Therefore, the institution does not belong to any individual or group, but to all Zambians.

 

Ms Chisangano: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mwashingwele: When the ministry deliberately fails to cover the Opposition through the ZNBC, the Times of Zambia or the Zambia Daily Mail, how can I support its budget as a lawmaker? I would be putting money where I do not count. So, even as the hon. Minister looks at this issue ‒

 

Sir, I always wonder why the Patriotic Front (PF) forgets so quickly. When the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) was in Government, the PF went through this exclusion from coverage by the public media.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mwashingwele: It is said that when someone feels a pain, he/she will not want to inflict it on another person because he/she knows how it feels. Unfortunately, our colleagues have forgotten too quickly that what goes around comes around. One day, our colleagues on your right will need this platform and they will know what we are talking about today.

 

Ms Katuta: After 2021.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mwashingwele: We have a challenge in that every party that forms the Government falls into the trap we keep debating year in and year out. I respect the level of the hon. Minister’s understanding of the gravity of this problem because she is a professional media practitioner. Therefore, I expect her to rise above partisan politics.

 

Mr Chairperson, one day, I would like the hon. Minister, who is the mouthpiece of the PF, to feature with me on a ZNBC programme so that we can articulate issues from the perspectives of our two different parties. That would allow the people of Zambia to choose what is good for them. Unfortunately, the people only hear one side of the story. Therefore, I do not even want to debate the adequacy or inadequacy of the ministry’s budget because it does not cater for my needs. Maybe, what has not been given to the ministry is what would have been used to cover the opposition parties. Is that how we want to argue?

 

I heard the hon. Minister talk about competition last evening. Competition is healthy, but unfair competition is not healthy. When the ZNBC competes with a private television and radio station, it is like a mother competing with a child, and that is unfair competition because a child is always cautious of the relationship he or she has with the mother. Such competition puts the superior competitor in very bad light.

 

Mr Chairperson, the ZNBC has become a pay television service provider in addition to being the content regulator. What is the Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA) doing about this?  The ZNBC is literary doing everything currently.

 

Mr Nkombo: It is the alpha and the omega.

 

Ms Mwashingwele: On the other hand, the private media houses have to pay subscription fees that cannot be afforded by most television stations. Is it a deliberate move by the PF to drive the private media down so that by the time we get to 2021, opposition political parties will have no mouthpiece? Is that the motive of our colleagues on your right? If we are blacked out by the ZNBC by the time we get to 2021, how are the people going to know about our policies and enjoy the multi-partism that they deliberately chose for this country?

 

The PF is afraid. It keeps arguing that it has done a lot, especially with regard to infrastructure development. Therefore, why can we not have a fair debate on public platforms? The only way to have a fair debate is when we sit in a ZNBC studio and people watch or listen to us as we put our arguments across on television or radio. Only then will people be able to make an informed choice on who should lead them. Unfortunately, the people’s choice is limited because they do not get to hear from both sides of the political divide. Why is it so?

 

Sir, I spoke about the public broadcaster being the signal carrier and charging subscription. Apart from that, it gets the television levy, and I would like to echo what Hon. Dr Chishimba Kambwili said about the levy. If the ZNBC has also become a pay television service provider, all the television stations that are carried by it must be given some of the money it collects. Legally, they deserve to get some of the money because there is pay television, subscription and carriage. They pay all the three amounts, and I am sure one of the amounts will be imposed on them in the next two weeks, as said by the hon. Minister last evening. These are the things we are talking about. How can we impose three taxes on the private sector and, then, say that there is fair competition in the media sector? What kind of competition is that? To me, it amounts to intimidation of the private sector.

 

Sir, unless we level the media playing field, the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting does not deserve to get anything from the National Budget. It has to generate its own funds because, in my view, it is behaving like a private entity, and it is biased. If it is raising funds just for the benefit of the PF, then, the private sector should also be given the opportunity to raise money for opposition political parties. Then, we will have a fair deal.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mwashingwele: The group that is said to cover the opposition parties is being charged left, right and centre, and this is the reason Muvi TV decided to have its own decoder. Unfortunately, the station is literary drowning because of unfair competition and paying exorbitant taxes.

 

Sir, I am not a specialist in this area, but I know for a fact that digital migration should have made communication, access to information and broadcasting much cheaper for Zambians across the country. When it was advertised, we were told that it would give us wider coverage, cheaper broadcasting and everything else that was good. It sounded like it was going to be heaven on earth. However, and unfortunately, TopStar only offers two free channels, which are ZNBC TV 1 and Parliament TV. In principle, even Prime TV, which is a local channel, should be free according to what was being said. However, immediately your subscription expires, you are shut out. Therefore, we are saying that we need a fair platform. The ministry is not only for the Government of the day, but also for all Zambians. Maybe, we need to separate the ministry from the Executive so that it is actually beneficial to our people.

 

Sir, some people in far-flung areas cannot access certain private channels. So, they are restricted to watching programmes aired on the ZNBC in vernacular languages. Unfortunately, sometimes, that is mere propaganda. Why do we not give them the opportunity to hear what the other side is talking about? Who says there is nothing happening in Katuba, Bweengwa, Gwembe or Shangombo that the people would want to know about? Such places are only shown on the ZNBC when there are by-elections there, like it is currently the case with Mangango Constituency. Further, even when Mangango is shown on the ZNBC, it is as if there is only one candidate contesting in the by-election.

 

Mr Nkombo: He does not even speak English.

 

Ms Mwashingwele: It does not matter what language he speaks. What we want is for all candidates in the Mangango By-election to be covered by the public broadcaster because it is their right. As the fourth wing of the Government, the media is for everyone. Right or wrong, left or right, everyone needs to be covered so that everyone feels that the tax they pay is actually beneficial to the whole country.

 

Sit, unless the hon. Minister can assure me, as a member of the Opposition and, specifically, as a member of the UPND, that I will be covered by the ZNBC on both television and radio, I will find it difficult to support the 2019 budget for her ministry.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: I will give the Floor to two United Party for National Development (UPND) hon. Members and, then, give it to the Forum for Democracy and Development (FDD) hon. Member. Thereafter, I will give it to one Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Member. I have not seen any Independent hon. Member indicating.

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I will try to be very brief in debating the budget for the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting.  

 

Sir, the main issue is that there is information and, according to the hon. Minister, some of it is fake while some of it is the truth. According to her, whatever is not in line with her point of view is falsehood even if it is the truth, more so when it is broadcast.

 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister also commented on social media, which is very helpful nowadays. It is the biggest whistleblower. Just now, it is social media that told us of the leakage of examinations. That was called fake news by the Government, but it turned out to be genuine news. Meanwhile, what we tend to call genuine news is actually propaganda. So, this ministry is very important. 

 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister has talked about the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), a thirty-one-year-old institution. Were it a human being, he/she would be considered mature. Unfortunately, the oldest media platform in the country will soon be an empty shell if it is not one already. Nothing will remain of it. Akuna, vyawuchi, yosena. Everything will be taken, including the television transmitters in all provincial centres. Tell me, how many are remaining? Who controls those transmitters? Is it the ZNBC or TopStar Communications Company? TopStar is even building in front of the ZNBC premises. So, the moment the TopStar building is completed, the name of the place will read: “TopStar Communications Company”, not “ZNBC”, because “ZNBC” will be hidden from view. In essence, the ZNBC has been swallowed up by TopStar. No wonder the Government does not want to hear the word ‘sold’ in discussions about the ZNBC. That is selling. If I, Mutelo, for example, put the face of the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting, Ms Dora Siliya, here, people will see Ms Siliya, not Mutelo.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Government Members: Where? 

 

Mr Mutelo: So, because TopStar has put its building in front of the ZNBC Buildings, the whole place will now be TopStar, not ZNBC. 

 

Mr Chairperson, StarTimes of China has contributed its 60 per cent to the TopStar venture. Who will contribute the 40 per cent? If it is the Government or the ZNBC, when will it do so? Further, what will happen if they fail to make their contribution? It means that the other shareholder will buy off the 40 per cent shares and become the sole owner of TopStar. Therefore, TopStar is gone. No wonder the decoders that TopStar has given ZNBC staff just shows two channels, namely Parliament Television and ZNBC TV 1. If they want to watch other channels, they have to subscribe. Hau, bakuluna! How do you subscribe to your own company?

 

Mr Chairperson, I thank the Government for the programme of taking television to the villages. However, it is making the poor poorer because they will not be able to watch television channels free of charge. They will have to get money from somewhere and subscribe.

 

Hon. Government Member: From where?

 

Mr Mutelo: Yes, the question is: Where will they get that money from, being poor as they are? This is like putting bait on a hook and saying to a fish: “We have brought food”. In reality, you are not being generous to the fish. You do not mean well. The Government wants to get the little money the poor earn from their sweat. To compound the misery, that money will not be for Zambians. It will go to China. Masheleñi kaufela alimuzhila ku China. Soon, even the language on the ZNBC ‒

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, you have used a vernacular language. I think you need to translate so that we all understand.

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I did interpret that when I said that all the money is on its way to China. Masheleñi kaufela asweli kuungiwa kwa ZNBC amwanzila kuya kwa China. That is the interpretation. It means that this country will remain with nothing, and we will have problems in our economy.

 

Mr Chairperson, I am glad that the hon. Minister said that the Access to Information Bill is now with the Ministry of Justice. I hope it will not take ten years there too. For how many years have we cried for it? I am pretty sure that the hon. Minister of Justice started the battle. Where has the Bill been? Where is it? We do not know how long it will remain where it is now or if it is true that it will be presented to this House. The problem is that the Patriotic Front (PF) does not want people to have access to information because it wants to hide from the people all the loans it has been getting. We are also waiting for another Bill to be presented by the hon. Minister of Finance so that Zambians are given the opportunity to know about every loan that the Government will contract. The people in Government are getting loans to be paid in twenty-five years when some of them will not be there. God should give us long life. Are we being fair to our children? Are we?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mutelo: I am winding up.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Government should provide broadcasting services to Washishi and Sikongo. No wonder pupils in urban areas are at an advantage. Come next year when the Grade 7, Grade 9 and Grade 12 results are released, all your children will have fake distinctions while we from the rural areas who use our heads will not be graded accordingly. We will be degraded. So, let us ensure equity for the people in Samfya, Chifunabuli, Ikeleng’i, Kazungula and Mitete. Let us have a level playing field.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Government started by introducing a K2 television levy, which was being collected by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) on behalf of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). I am pretty sure that the ZNBC was getting a lot of money from that. Now, the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA) is the one collecting the TV levy, and I wonder how much of the money is being remitted to ZNBC. Now that the TV levy is K5, the ZNBC seems not to have enough money and it now has challenges paying salaries to its staff, yet when the levy was K2, the company used to make a lot of money. When the institution sends some of its members of staff to China for training for a month or so, it tells them to go without paying them, promising to pay them when they return. However, when they return, they are not paid and the institution remains indebted to them. I am sure that means the ZNBC is struggling financially. Hau, bana ba Jesu!

 

Mr Chairperson, let us check the number of employees at the ZNBC. Maybe, the institution has a bloated workforce because cadres were employed instead of professionals. No wonder it has challenges. The ministry should get a consultant to help address the problems the institution is facing. If it has already done so, that is better.

 

Sir, is the Government listening to what I am saying? Our colleagues claim to be a listening Government, but I can tell you that the PF is not a listening Government. For example, for seven years, I have been calling for the construction of the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/ Mumbezhi Road, but the road has still not been worked on. So, is it a listening Government?

 

Mr Chitotela: Very much.

 

Mr Mutelo: Do you listen?

 

Mr Chitotela: Yes, we do.

 

Mr Mutelo: Okay, continue not listening, but one day, people will tell you kuze wengilila wufumba kukiko wene wechikulovokelanga, meaning a pregnancy comes out from where it enters. I have interpreted that saying as advised by Mr Chairperson.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: I give the Floor to Hon. Kundoti, who will be followed by Hon. Bwalya. Then, the hon. Minister will wind up debate.

 

Mr Kundoti (Luena): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Vote for the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting.

 

From the outset, I want to say that we, the Opposition, are not opposing this Vote with a view to starving those who work for public media houses. Rather, it is with a view to passing on the message to our viewers that we are not happy with the way the ministry is running the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), ...

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Mr Kundoti: ... the Zambia Daily Mail and the Times of Zambia. We all know very well, because it is in the public domain, that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has a heavy hand in the running of these three public media houses. I say so because everyone knows that when you watch the ZNBC Television News, for about thirty minutes, you will only listen to news about the PF, which is very unfortunate. There may be a good story about the Opposition, but it will not be reported by the ZNBC, the Times of Zambia or the Zambia Daily Mail. This is very unfortunate because the three media houses are public institutions, which means that they are owned by the people of Zambia. When we talk about the people of Zambia, we are not talking about PF members only, but also people across the board, who may be members of the United Party for National Development (UPND), the PF, the Forum for Democracy and Development (FDD), the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) among other parties. We, therefore, expect the three public media institutions to do their work professionally and give equal coverage to all.

 

Mr Chairperson, I urge the PF Government to remove its heavy hand from the public media houses. It should let the media operate freely. We know very well that a free media promotes democracy in any given situation. So, for Zambia’s democracy to thrive, we need to promote an independent media, failure to which our democracy will be extinguished. Already, that is what we are seeing happening in Zambia. We do not see democracy being promoted. Instead, it is failing to grow because the public media is not able to operate freely.

 

Sir, the public media is supposed to disseminate information from the Government and the Ruling Party. We are being told that our people should be shown developmental projects. That is true, but we also want to hear the views of other people. We want to hear what Mr Hakainde Hichilema is talking about, and about his good plans and views. The public wants to know because it owns the ZNBC, the Zambia Daily Mail and the Times of Zambia. We only hear leaders of opposition political parties talking in the private media. That is why the ZNBC is now losing its audience.

 

Mr Ngulube: Question!

 

Mr Kundoti: You may question me and dislike what I am saying, but that will not change the situation. The truth will remain what it is, and it will set our colleagues free.

 

Mr Mutelo: Amen!

 

Mr Kundoti: That is because if you stand on something that is not true, it will not hold. It will dry up. So, it is important for our colleagues on the right to listen to the voice of reason. We are giving them free advice, which they are supposed to heed.

 

Mr Chairperson, look at what is happening today in this country. We need to realise that the public media is supposed to be a platform for all of us to share our ideas. However, the ZNBC is not such a platform today. It is private radio and television stations that are open to opposition political parties and allow the Opposition to freely air their sentiments, plans of action and such issues. People from the Opposition who go to the ZNBC to air their sentiments are told, “This story cannot be aired”, while other stories are allowed. It is not supposed to be like that. We all contribute to the running of the ZNBC, the Times of Zambia and the Zambia Daily Mail. Therefore, the PF Government should not monopolise these public media houses because they belong to all of us. We own them together. Just as the previous speakers said, time is coming when hon. Members on the right will find themselves on the left.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Kundoti: Yes, whether you like it or not, or say, “Question!”, time is coming, and 2021 is that time. I am happy that 2021 is coming, and the people are listening. We thank God that our colleagues cannot switch off Parliament Television. Right now, as I am speaking, people are watching. So, the time the PF will find itself here on the left, in 2021, our colleagues will feel the pain, and we will not sympathise with them.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kundoti: However, we will do the right things that they are failing to do now, including allowing the public media houses to work freely in this country. We will not give them orders on which stories to broadcast because we will have nothing to hide. We will be transparent. They do not want us to have information because there is something that they are hiding. They know that if they allow us to operate freely, we will expose the wrong things they are doing. Hence, they want to govern these media houses with a heavy hand.

 

Sir, during my time as a worker at the ZNBC, I remember being in a meeting in which a Minister told us, “Do not forget that you cannot bite the hand that feeds you”. That was intimidation, and it is still going on.

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. Government Member: That is why you were fired.

 

Mr Kundoti: I was not fired!

 

Laughter

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

 

Ignore those who are debating while seated because they have not been allowed to debate. Just concentrate on your debate. If I see you getting off the line, I will guide you.

 

Mr Kundoti: Mr Chairperson, thank you for your protection and guidance.

 

Sir, we know the interference to which the public media houses are subjected. Further, because our colleagues know that if the private media thrives, more hidden information will come out in the public domain, they try by all means to suppress it. However, I hope that this can come to an end and we see the private media thrive. Our prayer is that the heavy hand be removed from the public media. Allow it to be the mouthpiece for all Zambians.

 

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I want to say that the ZNBC should be a broadcasting station where we will all be free to go and air our sentiments. Let the presidents of all political parties use that platform to disseminate what they have in their hearts to the people of Zambia. I hope that the ministry will take this advice seriously and heed it.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing the voice of Chienge to be heard, though it cannot be heard on national television or radio.

 

Sir, I once went to the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) to see whether I could be featured on television, but I was told that I could not be featured because the station only covered the Government of the day. However, I am asked to debate and support the budget for the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting in this House. How can I do that when I am excluded from being covered the station?

 

Sir, if only the original Patriotic Front (PF) Government could be maintained. We would, then, see the Opposition being given the chance to communicate their views on the ZNBC. However, we have a problem because we have the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) masquerading as the PF. So, what the MMD did is what the PF is now doing. I hope that the President is listening. Let him retain only the original PF members in Government. Maybe, we would, then, not have this problem because what people were up against in the MMD is what is obtaining now. So, I do not see the PF running the Government. It is the MMD still ruling even though the people rejected it.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Katuta: Sir, we need to participate. We cannot be told to apply and follow procedure when we go to the ZNBC. Today, I decided to listen to ZNBC Radio because I do not listen to it anymore. I gave up on doing that sometime back. When I tuned in, all I could hear was about the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe and other PF hon. Members. It was all about the PF. Who says that the ZNBC belongs to PF Members of Parliament only?

 

Sir, in Chienge, I was asked, “Ba mayo, ninshi tatumimona imwe pamulabasa?”, meaning, “Our mother, why do we not see you on national television?” They also ask why they do not hear about me on national radio. Some of them endured the negative aspects of the United National Independence Party (UNIP) and say what is happening is the reason they decided to reintroduce multipartism in our country. However, to their surprise, they see what used to happen in the MMD happening in the PF Government.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: They are the same!

 

Ms Katuta: Mr Chairperson, we have a big problem here.

 

The Times of Zambia and the Zambia Daily Mail are not making any profits, yet the Government still wants to cling on to them. Whose money is it using to sustain these entities and the ZNBC? It is using taxpayers’ money to which we, as the Opposition, contribute. It is about time we put politics aside and became true patriots. We must do the right thing for the sake of justice for the people who have been experiencing injustices, such as those in Chienge.

 

Sir, Zambia News and Information Services (Zanis) has an office in the constituency, but the Zanis officer does not even have electricity in his office. Sometimes, I used to sponsor him with airtime in order for him to send some information. If I go to that constituency, I will not be covered by Zanis because I am a member of the Opposition. Things are happening there, but no one bothers to cover them because it is not a PF constituency, yet I represent the nation and Chienge. I still appeal to the Government to bring this to an end. Some of us used to be part of the PF, and we want to see the PF that we knew come back and be the true picture of democracy. We cannot afford to have what was happening during the MMD Government happen today. Otherwise, the Government should come out and say that those who support the Opposition should stop paying taxes. I believe that will help us because what is happening is very painful. I can equate it to theft. The Government is taking something from us, but it is not providing the service. It is not fair. We pay taxes, but we are not covered because we are told that we do not have the policies that people should listen to, yet when we come here, we are asked to support this budget. Why do our colleagues not just approve their budget and do whatever they want to do without involving the House?

 

Sir, I warn ZNBC, Times of Zambia and Zambia Daily Mail workers that their days are numbered. The hon. Minister of Finance was recently in the media saying that all the non-profit-making institutions must submit their reports to her ministry on how they will start making profits. If the Times of Zambia and the ZNBC are not profitable, why are we keeping them? We are better off liquidating them and allowing the private media houses to fill the void that will be created. The reason we go to private media houses is that we realise we will not be covered by the public media.

 

Mr Chairperson, if you open the Zambia Daily Mail and the Times of Zambia, you will see articles about the PF from the front page to the back. What about us? I know that the Times of Zambia gets taxpayers’ money. It should not make us start evading tax out of not wanting to give money to loss-making entities.

 

Sir, I will never subscribe to TopStar. I would rather pay K1,000 to Digital Satellite Television (DStv) because it gives me what I want. The South African Broadcasting Corporation (SABC) is a Government station, but it still covers the Opposition. In this country, it is taboo, but we want that to come to an end. We talk about “One Zambia, One Nation” and moving in unity. How do we move in unity when all we see on the television are PF members? Yes, they have a mandate to show what the Government is doing, but what about what the Opposition is also saying? Does the Opposition say things that do not make sense? It is not fair.

 

Mr Chairperson, let me get back to the point that we need to have the PF that we expected in Government, and it needs to do the right thing. We all need to be heard because when we see the same things that the MMD was doing, it makes us wonder if having voted the party out makes any difference. There is no difference. The only difference is the name. We know who is there and who is doing what. We need to start moving together.

 

Sir, the good book, the Bible, which I may be guided against quoting, asks, “Can two walk together, unless they have agreed?” How are we going to move together if when we go to the ZNBC, we are told that the there is supposed to be clearance from the editor and many other people up the chain, after which we are told that we cannot be interviewed? Sometimes, I listen to the ZNBC because I want to hear the hon. Member of Parliament from Bweengwa or Mkaika being interviewed. However, that never happens. All we hear are our colleagues who sit on your right. Are they the owners of the ZNBC?

 

Mr Chairperson, the other day, the hon. Minister was bragging about how the ZNBC is a public institution that belongs to Zambians. If it belongs to Zambians, why is the Opposition stopped from going there? We need to be given answers. We should not joke here. Even after the President’s Speech to Parliament, I did not see any reporter from the ZNBC interview any of us from the Opposition. We were only interviewed by the private media houses. The ZNBC rushed to the hon. Members of Parliament from the PF. Your days are numbered.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Katuta: You can say, “Question!”, but you do not represent the feelings of the people. You represent your parties. I am speaking on behalf of the people of Zambia. We need to be fair.

 

Sir, I would have loved to support this budget, but as long as the people of Chienge are not covered and their Zanis Office does not give any information, I will not support it. Sometimes, I ask people to read through the Times of Zambia to see if there is coverage of important events in Chienge, but there is never any coverage. It takes Muvi TV or Prime TV to report what is happening. For example, civil servants died in a car crash and that was supposed to be reported by Zanis. However, because the Zanis employee does not have any equipment, it was not reported. This must come to an end.

 

Mr Chairperson, on behalf of the people of Chienge, I will not support this budget.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us hear from the last hon. Member to debate. Maybe, he will raise some new ideas on this Vote.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

We are debating the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, which has many departments. I did not want to bring the issue of debates being repetitive, ...

 

Mr Kambita: We are aware!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: ... hence my statement about hearing from the last Member to debate, Hon. Bwalya.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to say a few words on the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, which is obviously an institution of governance that has many functionaries.

 

Sir, Zambia liberalised its airwaves in 1991 when we chose to be a multi-party democracy. As a result, there was a need for us to enact legislation to regulate and govern the way media houses conduct their business.

 

Sir, each Government that takes over the reins of power uses the media as its mouthpiece. However, I think that the Patriotic Front (PF) has failed to use the national broadcaster, which has a lot of power and equipment to showcase what each Government has done, as its mouthpiece. This mouthpiece is expected to have what I may call “before, during and after” information on every Government that takes over so that it is able to disseminate information to the people to enable them to make meaningful decisions about particular Governments. I find it ‒

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1810 hours until 1830 hours.

 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the

Chair]

 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was stressing the point that the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting has avenues that it uses to disseminate information to the public. These avenues are the public broadcaster, the Zambia News and Information Services (Zanis), the Zambia Daily Mail and the Times of Zambia.

 

Mr Chairperson, any Government the world over has what is called a public broadcaster, and it is that mouthpiece that is expected to ensure that the Government’s programmes and its developmental agenda are disseminated to the public. It is also used to educate the public.

 

Mr Chairperson, the ministry, through the media houses under it, has the ability to show the state of the nation before, during and after any Government that comes into power.

 

Sir, of late, we have seen innovations in the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), Zanis and the Times of Zambia. That is what we want to see. For example, I like the programme called My District, which talks about the various developmental programmes that this country has embarked on. Another programme I like is called The Village TV’. These programmes can add value to the wellbeing of the people of Zambia. That is why I am saying that the PF has not done very well on this score. It has not fully utilised the public broadcaster and the various aspects of the media fraternity to showcase what it has done. There are many things that we have done in Mitete. There are also many things that have happened in Lupososhi Constituency and in various provinces of the country, but we are failing to bring them out using the mouthpiece of the Government of the day. I think that we will have ourselves to blame if we do not take full advantage of the agencies at the disposal of the Government. I am saying “the Government” in the right sense of the phrase. The Government of the day should take full advantage of the existence of the ZNBC, Zanis and the Zambia Daily Mail.

 

Mr Chairperson, information dissemination should not be restricted to politics. This is where we have missed it because we want to use this media for politicking. Let us use it for entertainment and the education of the masses that there is a Government in place that is delivering on its promises. That, we have not done.

 

Mr Mushanga: Including the UPND.

 

Mr Livune: Question! Kuya bebele!

 

Mr Bwalya: It is important to use these media houses. For example, some of the laws that this House has enacted have not been disseminated to the public. Some people do not even know that there is an Education Act because we have concentrated on politics. Immediately we enact a law here, the ZNBC and other public media must publicise it to the nation.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Bwalya: This role has not been properly played. I feel sorry because while they say ignorance is no defence, we have not done justice to the people of Zambia in not using the media to disseminate information on the various pieces of legislation that this House enacts.

 

Sir, still on the issue of our showcasing what has happened from 2011 to date, the people of Zambia have not been shown the true picture of the transformation that this country has gone through in terms of infrastructure development. I expected the hon. Minister to take to task the public media for not explaining these things. Our colleagues in the Opposition are having a field day because we are not showing what we have done since 2011 in the Western Province, Southern Province, Muchinga Province, Eastern Province, Northern Province, Luapula Province and North-Western Province. There are many things that we have done.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Mushanga: Livune!

 

Mr Bwalya: Private media houses, such as Muvi TV, Prime TV, Komboni Radio and Sky FM, also need to be controlled. It is one thing to express divergent views in good language, and another to do so using unpalatable language. We need to be responsible and not take this country on the wrong path.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Bwalya: One can appear on any radio or television station, but one must be mindful that we are also a country with norms and values that need to be respected so that we can leave behind a generation that will appreciate our liberalisation of the airwaves and that the decision added value to people’s lives.

 

Sir, at the rate we are moving, it is likely that in future, the media will be blamed for having divided this very united country, Zambia. It is not right that I should only be bent on ensuring that whatever the Government in power has done is seen to be wrong. In this regard, I would like to tell the hon. Minister and her counterpart at the Ministry of Finance that some of the loans that we have contracted have far-reaching benefits for the people of Zambia. However, because we have not told the people, using the public broadcaster, to take advantage of the loans, the people are condemning them. The beauty of it all is that what they are asking for ‒ and I have not heard any opposition political party complain about the utilisation of the loans. They say that we have borrowed too much, but they are happy with what we are using the money for.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Mwamba: They are benefitting.

 

Mr Bwalya: We must tell the public broadcaster to showcase where the money we have borrowed has gone. Then, Zambians will be very happy.

 

Hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting, can we make use of our mouthpiece before it is too late. Let us properly fund this mouthpiece, Zanis, so that it can go deep into the rural areas and show the people that bridge that was not there before 2011. It should also be able to show the people that tower that was not there before 2011.

 

Mr Lubinda: Ehe!

 

Mr Bwalya: Once we do that, all the people will appreciate the value of our having a public broadcaster.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Bwalya: Hon. Minister, in my view, Zambians are getting a raw deal because we are not reaching out to them and giving them quality information using the State machinery at our disposal. So, can we make use of these people. The hon. Member for Chienge is right in saying that there might be Zanis in her district, but the office might not have the equipment and requisites for collecting the information that should be shown to the people in Mitete so that the people in Mitete know what the PF Government is doing in Chienge. That is where we have missed it.

 

Ms Katuta: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Bwalya: She knows very well that she is not discriminated against, but she is complaining because nothing that we, as a Government, are doing in her constituency has been shown. I need to see those things exposed so that the people can know that something is happening in Chienge.

 

Ms Katuta: Exactly!

 

Mr Bwalya: Sir, I thank His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, …

 

Mr Livune: For what?

 

Mr Bwalya: … for creating Lupososhi District.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Bwalya: Lupososhi Constituency is now a district. In this regard, I appeal to the hon. Minister that between five and ten years from now, her ministry should produce a documentary showing Lupososhi before, during and after it became a district so that we are able to appreciate these things.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwamba: Why are you questioning?

 

Mr Bwalya: The ZNBC has a lot of information at its disposal, and Zanis has a lot of equipment and can keep all kinds of information in the archives. So, my appeal to the hon. Minister is that we should be innovative, use the public broadcaster to the fullest and ensure that people get the right information at the right time for the right purposes for them to get value for money.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Bwalya: I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to clarify some of the issue that have been raised in the debates.

 

Mr Chairperson, a few weeks ago when I debated the hon. Minister of Finance’s Budget Speech, I said that it was important for us to ask ourselves how we would be remembered in this House. I said that because this House has had many hon. Members since 1964, but very few are remembered.

 

Mr Lubinda: Yes!

 

Ms Siliya: Some have been one-term Members of Parliament while others have been here for two or three terms. The question is: What will we be remembered for? I, for one, know for sure that Hon. Lubinda will be remembered as an astute politician who moved from the United Party for National Development (UPND) to the Patriotic Front (PF), and that as a result, he got to sit on the Frontbench.

 

Hon. PF members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: I will also remember Hon. Mutati as an astute politician who, while leading the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), managed to sit on the right side of the House under the PF.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: I will remember Her Honour Mrs Inonge Wina as an astute politician who served the United National Independence Party (UNIP), MMD, UPND and, finally, became Vice-President in the PF Government.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Livune: We call that political prostitution.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Michelo: Nanga iwe?

 

Ms Siliya: I will remember the Head of State as an astute politician who was a member of the UPND, but joined the PF and is now in State House.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Mwiinga: What about you?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwiinga: You insulted Mr Sata, iwe.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, I think the time has come for the hon. Minister to respond.

 

Mr Michelo: What is she saying?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: She is responding to the issues you raised. So, listen carefully.

 

Ms Siliya: Sir, it is very surprising to hear the hon. Member for Chienge’s debate. Unlike the hon. Member for Monze Central, who said he was quite reluctant to support the budget for the ministry without actually saying that he was not in support of it, the hon. Member for Chienge said outrightly that she will not support the budget.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Michelo: Dora, wama scandals.

 

Ms Siliya: Sir, we, the leadership of the PF, under the guidance of His Excellency, truly understand that to be able to manage this country, we cannot afford to have permanent enemies. All we have are permanent interests. That is why we are on this side of the House.

 

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: We will be remembered for providing hope to the people of Zambia, not armchair criticism or running commentaries.

 

Mr Chabi: Ikalafye, iwe, Dora.

 

Ms Siliya: Sir, the Ministry of information and Broadcasting is not about the ZNBC only. That is why it is surprising that the hon. Member for Chienge can refuse to support a budget that is expected to help us to develop infrastructure, such as new offices for Zanis, in Chienge.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Lubezhi: For three years now.

 

Ms Siliya: The budget is also meant to provide for a new broadcasting house in Mansa so that news from Luapula Province, including Chienge, can be aired.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, to begin one’s debate by saying that one will not support the budget is a sure way of relegating oneself to being a one-term Member of Parliament because Zanis needs infrastructure.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, as I said, …

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order in the House!

 

Let us pay attention.

 

Ms Siliya: ... the ministry is not just about the ZNBC. In fact, it is responsible for all the media in this country. That is why it was surprising to hear the former Minister of Information and Broadcasting, Hon. Dr Kambwili, is surprised that we, on this side of the House, appear on media other than the ZNBC. That is right because the ministry is responsible for all the media in Zambia, not only for the ZNBC. That is why for any media house to operate in this country, they must be licensed by the ministry and the IBA. So, it is very important that we end this misconception that the ministry is all about the ZNBC.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Question!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question ba Mwiimbu.

 

Ms Siliya: I know that it is very difficult to listen when you have not had a well-prepared debate. However, you have to listen to the responses.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, the private media houses, such as Prime TV and other television stations in this country, continue to exist because the Budget passed by this House provides for digital migration so that we are able to charge the private sector lower fees. That is how the private sector can survive.

 

Mr Chairperson, it is a pedestrian approach to believe that, using Parliament TV, we can feed smear propaganda to the nation and not acknowledge that the cost of broadcasting has reduced tremendously. That is because while in the past one had to invest in all the infrastructures in the country alone, now, one can broadcast on the back of the Government through digital television.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: It is a fact that because the Government invested in digital broadcasting, we have reduced the subscription fees and we offer citizens a broader variety in terms of subscription. While those who can afford, such as the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge, can pay close to US$200 for private broadcasters like Digital Satellite Television (DStv), the majority of Zambians are able to afford cheaper television because the Government has invested in the relevant infrastructure.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Give me a minute, hon. Minister.

 

 We have to listen to the responses. As the hon. Minister listened to your debates, she took note of some of the issues you raised. She now has to respond because she is in charge of the ministry. So, let us listen. It does not pay to disturb the hon. Minister when she is responding to your concerns. In fact, that is a very bad way of conducting our business. 

 

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

 

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, let us have no doubt in our minds that what we do in this House in terms of discussing how to share national resources is a political process. As such, we are all quite ingenious in trying to convince the people of Zambia to believe us. The Government has a responsibility to inform the people of Zambia on how their resources are used. That is why it invested in Parliament Television. It is our choice to show Zambians how we want them to see us on Parliament Television.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Further, we, on the right, know that the ZNBC is an avenue through which we can be accountable to the people of Zambia. In this regard, I am happy that Hon. Dr Kambwili confessed that in his time, he abused the ZNBC. However, in my time as Minister, at no point will you go to the ZNBC and not be seen because the station is a standard for fair journalism in this country.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Ms Siliya: That is why many Zambians will doubt any information unless it was heard on the ZNBC.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

 

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

 

Ms Siliya: You can argue with the fact, but that is why the ZNBC has a bigger responsibility. It is not a platform for politicians, but one the people of Zambia who are represented in the Government by the people here (pointing at the hon. PF Members), especially the hon. Ministers, and that is why they have access to the ZNBC.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, the ZNBC has an editorial policy and decides whether one is worth showing on television or not.

 

Hon. UPND Backbenchers: Question!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members at the far end on my left, that is not the way we question the person on the Floor.

 

Ms Siliya: Sir, that is how our colleagues are deemed unworthy of being featured on television. Only those with sound arguments will add value to television programmes when featured.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, I am at pains to understand the hon. Leader of the Opposition, who is a very good colleague of mine, because he decided to pick from what a dear friend of mine, the Chairperson of the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC), Mr Kelvin Bwalya Fube, communicated. I, as Minister, laid a document on the Table and, as you read the interpretation of the merger in that document, you must understand it in line with Article 173, Cap 1 of the Constitution of Zambia, and Section 31 of the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission Act. If one lawyer we spoke to understood this, I find it very difficult to understand that the hon. Leader of the Opposition continues a smear campaign about the ZNBC being sold or merged. Maybe, he just reduced everything to politics.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, I suppose that is why the education threshold for those aspiring to be Members of Parliament was raised. As hon. Members of this House, we must understand that unless we change the law, the ZNBC cannot be sold. Why is that difficult to understand?

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Do we need to further raise the education threshold for Members of Parliament to understand our laws?

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: I believe that the threshold in this House has not been influenced by leakages.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Ms Siliya: I believe that the threshold on which we came to this House …

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order in the House!

 

Ms Siliya: … has not been influenced by leakages. So, how can we fail to understand the laws we have made?

 

Mr Chairperson, I heard the stretched argument that the special purpose vehicle (SPV) was created because of a loan we have failed to pay, and I find that reasoning very difficult to follow.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: I will keep saying that some people in this House, especially my colleagues in that corner (pointing at hon. UPND Backbenchers), will go into oblivion at the end of their terms.

 

Hon. UPND Backbenchers: Question!

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, for purposes of removing all doubt so that they do not go and mislead their constituents, as we want them to explain the law properly, the Government, on behalf of the people of Zambia, decided not to burden the people with the funding of the infrastructure for digital broadcasting. Therefore, it decided to accelerate digital migration by borrowing in a manner that would not burden the Treasury. Hopefully, my colleagues are following me so far. I will try to use simple English.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

 

Please, resume your seat.

 

The House has to be quiet for the hon. Minister to continue responding.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, I do not want to begin mentioning names. That is not the way to go. We have to listen. When you are given the opportunity to debate first, you must understand that someone else will speak last, and when someone speaks last, you should not disturb him or her. By the way, I am also listening and, if she says anything she should not say, I am here to guide.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: All the sides of the House were given the opportunity to debate. For you information, when many hon. Members debate a Vote, the hon. Minister may take long to respond to the issues raised. So, going forward, let us listen. The hon. Minister is still responding, and I believe she will start winding up.

 

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, I will try very hard to use simple English.

 

Sir, the Government decided that it was important for the people of Zambia to enjoy digital technology. However, for that to happen, it had to find a solution for financing the project. So, recognising that the ZNBC was responsible for implementing the programme, the Government decided that the station went into a commercial venture in order to pay for the loan needed to facilitate investment in infrastructure. I hope my colleagues are following so far.

 

Sir, the ZNBC did not have the technical expertise to implement the project. So, it looked for a partner with whom to share the interest, and this is how the merger is qualified in the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission Act. So, the interests of the two parties were put together and it was decided that one would provide the technology while the other would provide the signal. That is why the loan is anchored on the SPV called TopStar.

 

Sir, the loan was used to pay for infrastructure. This infrastructure ‒

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

 

Ms Siliya: No, let me finish. You see, you need to understand simple English.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Members, let him ‒

 

Interruptions 

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, the loan was used to build the six studios, of which more will be built nationwide, and to put up seventy-two transmitters to create a digital network. One does not get a digital signal by simply buying a television set. The whole broadcasting infrastructure had to change to create a digital network for the people to get a digital signal, hence the investment. After that, it was necessary that the existing studios were refurbished, and that was done. Now, the question is: How was the project to be paid for? It was agreed that we create a news SPV and a platform on which citizens who enjoy the new services because of the new infrastructure will contribute a minimal amount of US$3, which is between US$30 and US$40, so that the loan for infrastructure can be paid off over time. Other television service providers like DStv charge more for their services. I hope that was simple English.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Members, some of you are saying that the hon. Minister is shouting. This is simple logic. She is shouting like that because the House is not attentive, and she has to be heard. If you maintain silence, she will lower her voice.

 

You may continue, hon. Minister.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Apart from providing this service to citizens, the Government also understood that the private sector was finding it very difficult to get in the broadcasting business because private investors had to replicate the infrastructure nationwide to be able to broadcast. That is why, initially, all private television stations had only licences to broadcast in Lusaka. After the investment by the people of Zambia, we have seen some broadcasting houses extend their coverage to other towns and provinces. The Government intended to achieve that by lowering the cost of subscription and increasing the capacity of the private sector to enter the market. I hope that has been understood.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Sir, I cannot use any simpler English than this, and I apologise for that.

 

Sir, it is we, on this side of the House, who understood and underscored the importance of access to information. In fact, on 6th November, 2018, which is Tuesday, next week, we will have the final consultation with the Ministry of Justice on the Access to Information Bill. We are very interested in the Bill because we want to stop those with talent for misleading people with fake information obtained from online media.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Sir, we want citizens to be able to obtain information directly from the Government. In other countries, the Access to Information Bill is also called the “Citizens Bill” because it is about the citizens.

 

Mr Chairperson, many politicians want to perpetrate a smear campaign through social media. However, with the Access to Information Bill, the citizens of Zambia will have the right to go to any Government institution and demand the correct information. They will not rely on half-truths from politicians. Today, the hon. Leader of the Opposition has demonstrated what I am talking about when he selectively read from a document with the sole purpose of misleading the citizens.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: If he wanted to tell the citizens the truth, he would have quoted what the law says. In the document that he quoted, Mr Fube did not stop at giving conditional authority for the merger, but also cited the law that defined the merger. So, I can only conclude that the hon. Leader of the Opposition, in his usual style, meant to mislead the nation.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: We understand that is the Opposition’s agenda. However, our colleagues should also let us, on this side, take the responsibility of using the ZNBC for its right purpose of informing the citizens on what the Government is doing on their behalf. Furthermore, we do not expect people to claim that just because they belong to an opposition party, even when they have nothing to say, they deserve to be covered by an institution funded by the people of Zambia who elected this Government. It is not possible.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, it is saddening that I receive many complaints from journalists, especially those from public institutions, who are terrified of covering some politicians in this House because of violence. Even journalists from Radio Phoenix which, at one point, sought to lean towards the Opposition, have been coming to my office to complain about being abused by politicians. Since I have heard many lamentations against the media, I want to state that it is not right to blame the media for our shortcomings. If we have not crafted a massage good enough to convince the people of Zambia to elect us into Government, we should not blame the media for it. It is like our colleagues are blaming the pot for their food not turning out as delicious as the recipe promised.

 

Sir, for now, Zambians believe in the PF and that is why the party is on this side of the House.

 

Hon. Government: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Madam Chairperson, Speaker, ‒

 

Madam Chairperson, ‒

 

Mr Chairperson, a lot ‒ 

 

Hon. Opposition Members: “Madam Chairperson”?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

 

Let us move together. Those are mistakes that almost everyone has made.

 

Laughter

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order in the House!

 

Take your seat, hon. Minister. There must be order in the House. I have the powers …

 

Mr Chabi: Tell them!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: … that I can exercise on some hon. Members of Parliament when the Business of the House is on, but I do not want to do that because many of you misunderstand me. This time, allow the hon. Minister to conclude the debate because we have a lot of ‒

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Laughter

 

The Deputy Chairperson: We have a lot of work ahead of us. Some of you may think that the Chair can only send you out for one day and, tomorrow, you are back in the House. It is not the case. We do not want to go to that extent because we have to move together in this business. The issue is to maintain order and allow the hon. Minister to conclude the debate so that this Vote is concluded today. We have a number of Votes to consider ahead of us.

 

From now onwards, as I begin to hear the conclusion of the matter on the Bill ‒

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: As I begin to hear the hon. Minister’s conclusion, I want many hon. Members on my left to observe silence. I want to have silence in the House.

 

You may continue, hon. Minister.

 

Mr Chabi: Hear, hear! 

 

Ms Siliya: I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Mr Chairperson, I want to belabour the point that we should be mindful of what we will be remembered for. The point on the ZNBC was belaboured and I want to state, once again, that we are here for politics.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Volume!

 

Ms Siliya: However, as we engage one another, it is important to also understand that we, on this side, have no interest in being on the other side. So, we will do everything possible to remain on this side.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: As such, one of the things that we must do is to communicate effectively. In doing that, as a responsible Government, we have to package programmes for the people of Zambia. The accusations that we are stopping the opposition parties from being covered on the ZNBC are not true. In fact, members of opposition parties are not short of being heard. The issue is how they are being heard. On this side, we are very concerned about how Zambians should hear us. As Zambians hear us, we want to demonstrate to them that while others may use this House as a market and playground, we are serious here. We want Zambians to know that we are building schools for them, and we will communicate that to them through the ZNBC. The people who elected the PF want the party to communicate to them.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: That point must not be forgotten.

 

Sir, if the editorial policy of the ZNBC is to not allow every Jim and Jack to be on the screen, especially –

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, I am not talking about Jack, the Leader of the Opposition.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members! Order in the House!

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order in the House!

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, the ZNBC has an editorial policy, which is that the station will respond to the public, not individual, interest.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, the hon. Minister wants to conclude. So, give her space to conclude.

 

Hon. Minister, continue.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, maybe, people expect this side to abrogate its responsibility to communicate to the people of Zambia. However, the Government is expected to continue using the public media to communicate to citizens.

 

Mr Chairperson, I want to emphasise that the ZNBC and other public institutions have editorial policies. They have to determine that what we want to say to the citizens, if we are not Government officials, is of value to the public. They will not allow somebody to go on television and just start high-level waffling or taking a pedestrian approach to issues.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: They expect anyone they give time on television to be calm enough to communicate serious issues to the nation. Otherwise, the ZNBC will not allow you to be on its platform. That is just the reality.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: It will not allow emotions, a pedestrian approach or high-level waffling on public television. People who go on the ZNBC are expected to have prepared arguments. So, we can continue to expose ourselves on Parliament TV in this House, but the ZNBC will not allow that.

 

Mr Chairperson, for the sake of clarity, under the Digital Migration Programme, there will be five free channels for the people of Zambia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, hon. Members on your left asked questions that I need to answer on behalf of the people of Zambia.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

 

We have to conclude on this Vote.

 

Continue, hon. Minister.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, a lot of emotion was expressed by an hon. Member of Parliament for a constituency in Luapula Province who said that there are only two free channels on the TopStar platform. I want to inform the nation that, going forward, there will be five free channels for the people of Zambia.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

Ms Siliya: That is why we have begun planning for those channels this year. We had to develop the infrastructure in the provinces first. Without that infrastructure in the provinces, what content can we put on the channels? We, on this side, do not have a pedestrian approach to issues. We think and plan, and then, invest in the technology. We have to invest in the broadcasting houses, then, provide for the content.

 

Sir, it is very important for people who ask the Government questions to be prepared to hear the answers. The ZNBC will have five channels for the people of Zambia at a subscription cost of between K30 and K40 per month.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, conclude in less than three minutes.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, posturing will not help us. When I was in school, we were taught that making the loudest noise did not mean that a tin had something inside it.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order in the House!

 

Continue, hon. Minister, but remember that you have less than three minutes.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, I recognise the points made by the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba, Ms Mwashingwele. I share her points. Indeed, unless we provide for a broadcasting house in Central Province, we are not going to be able to have her on television.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, conclude.

 

Ms Siliya: I think Zambians have heard that those who come to this House to posture will be called out. Zambians know that the alleged sale of the ZNBC is a lie and they expect better from this House. Further, we cannot expect to use the ZNBC, which is funded by the taxpayers, for electioneering all the time. Zambians want to know what has happened after elections in terms of development. They also want to know that the Government has invested in making sure that everyone gets a ZNBC decoder. So, we do not expect them not to pay for the service. For me –

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Ms Siliya: There is only one presiding officer here.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

 

We are behind time. I think it is important that we conclude.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: I hope that my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge, –

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Siliya: I will not call her “Mr Katuta” like they are calling her behind me. I will just say to the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge that it will do all of us some good if we invested in the necessary infrastructure in Luapula Province, beginning with a broadcasting station in Mansa. That will enable us to quickly get to places like the hon. Member’s constituency to cover events there. Unless we make that investment, it is not going to be possible for us to cover events in such areas from Lusaka all the time. That is not going to work. Even when we talk about Zanis, the institution does not have the infrastructure. We are only investing in it now. So, it is very important that we invest in infrastructure, and that is why I am convinced –

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, you are now making my work very difficult.

 

Ms Siliya: I hope that the hon. Members of Parliament will support the budget of my ministry.

 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Vote 26/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Ms Lubezhi indicated.  

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, we have already passed the Vote.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Lubezhi, we have passed the Vote. If I did not recognise you ‒ Please, let us make progress. I am aware that you are indicating.

 

VOTE 26/02 – (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting ServicesZambia News and Information Services – K18,684,882).

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5032, Activity 001 – News Gathering including Provinces – K900,558. In 2018, K2,208,420 was approved for this Activity. For 2019, however, only K900,558 has been allocated. As far as I know, news gathering is the core function of the ministry, especially the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), which we have discussed on the Floor of this House. Why did the ministry reduce the allocation to its core business? 

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, the reason there is a reduction in the allocation to Programme 5032, Activity 001 – News Gathering including Provinces – K900,558 is that some of the needed equipment was bought. If you look further down under Programme 5032, you will see that the Government has provided an allocation for Activity 011 – Government TV News Channel – K800,000. This is because we are trying to reorganise Zanis to become a news channel, like I emphasised when I responded to some earlier debates. So, we had to invest in it. We have provided K800,000 as a preliminary investment in its reorganisation so that it can serve the citizens better.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: I give the Floor to Hon. Sing’ombe, Hon. Mutelo and, then, Hon. M. Jere.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5068, Activity 002 – Mobile Video Shows in Rural Areas – K110,280. In 2018, this Activity was allocated K46,120 and, although Dundumwezi is a very rural area, we did not see these video shows. I do not even know what videos the ministry wants to show in rural areas. What videos are they?

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, the increase in the allocation to Programme 5068, Activity 002 – Mobile Video Shows in Rural Areas – K110,280 is because of the increase in the number of districts.

 

Sir, the mobile video vans are used by Zanis to provide information relevant to the communities. Sometimes, the vans are used by the Ministry of Health, and during elections and various other Government activities. That is what this allocation is for.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, why is there no allocation to Programme 5013, Activity 002 – Field Production –Nil?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Are you there, hon. Minister?

 

Ms Siliya: Yes.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Okay. Please, answer.

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, as I have stated, we are reorganising Zanis so that it can be efficient. In doing that, instead of allocating small amounts of money every year, we have made a seed investment of K800,000 to provide infrastructure support to Zanis so that it can do its job. I know that some printing presses were already bought, but they are not functioning. We have a number of them in Chipata and Kasama, but they are currently non-functional because they were bought without regard to the backward linkages of creating the basic infrastructure before they could begin to operate.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Opposition Members called for a division.

 

Question that Vote 26/02 – Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services – Zambia News and Information Services – K18,684,882 be ordered to stand part of the Estimates put and the House voted.

 

Ayes − (67)

 

Mr C. Banda

Mr S. Banda

Mr W. Banda

Mr Bwalya

Mr Chali

Ms Chalikosa

Mr Chama

Dr Chanda

Mr Chansa

Dr Chibanda

Mr Chilangwa

Mr Chisopa

Mr Chiteme

Mr Chitotela

Mr Chungu

Mr Daka

Mrs Fundanga

Dr Hamukale

Mr Kafwaya

Mr Kalobo

Mr Kampyongo

Ms Kapata

Mr Katambo

Mr Kaziya

Dr Kopulande

Ms Langa

Mr Mabumba

Mr A. M. Malama

Dr M. Malama

Mr Malanji

Mr Mbulakulima

Mr Miti

Mr Mubukwanu

Mr Mukosa

Ms Mulenga

Mr Mundubile

Mr Mung’andu

Mr Munkonge

Mr Mushanga

Mr Musonda

Mr Mutale

Mr Mutati

Mr Mwakalombe

Mr Mwamba

Mrs Mwanakatwe

Mr Mwila

Mr Ng’ambi

Mr Nkhuwa

Mr Nyirenda

Ms O. Phiri

Mr P. Phiri

Mr Sampa

Mr Sichalwe

Mr Sichone

Mr Sikazwe

Ms Siliya

Mr Simbao

Mr Siwale

Mr Siwanzi

Ms Subulwa

Rev. Sumaili

Mr L. Tembo

Mr M. Tembo

Mr S. Tembo

Dr Wanchinga

Mrs Wina

Mr M. Zulu

 

Noes − (36)

 

Mr Belemu

Mr Bulaya

Mr Chaatila

Ms Chisangano

Mrs Chonya

Mr Fungulwe

Dr Imakando

Mr Imbuwa

Mr Jere

Mr Kakubo

Mr Kamondo

Mr Kasonso

Ms Katuta

Princess Kucheka

Mr Livune

Mr Lufuma

Mr Lumayi

Mr Machila

Mr Mbangweta

Mr Michelo

Mr Miyanda

Mr Miyutu

Mr Mulunda

Ms Mulyata

Dr Musokotwane

Mr Mutelo

Ms Mwashingwele

Mr Mweetwa

Mr Mwiimbu

Mr Nanjuwa

Mr Ndalamei

Rev. Shabula

Mr Sialubalo

Mr Sing’ombe

Mr Syakalima

Ms Tambatamba

 

Abstention − (01)

 

Mr Chabi

 

Question accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote 26/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 26/03 – (Ministry of Information and BroadcastingPlanning and Information – K477,888,552).

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, why is there no allocation to Programme 5134, Activity 008 – Preparation and Consolidation of Annual Work Plans – Nil?

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, no allocation has been provided for Programme 5134, Activity 008 – Preparation and Consolidation of Annual Work Plans – Nil in 2019 because of enhanced online co-ordination, particularly among the various units of the ministry.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, why is there an exponential increment in the allocation to Programme 5000, Activity 001 – Salaries Division I – K1,624,690? In the 2018 Budget, it was allocated K97,760?

 

Ms Siliya: Sir, Programme 5000, Activity 001 – Salaries Division I – K1,624,690 is meant to meet the cost of paying salaries in Division I. Sometimes, positions that had been frozen are unfrozen, then, there are promotions and other similar factors that explain the increase.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Chairperson, why has the allocation to Programme 5001, Activity 009 – Participate in International Women’s Day – K22,845 been reduced? In 2018, the Activity was allocated K60,000.

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, the allocation to Programme 5001, Activity 009 – Participate in International Women’s Day – K22,845 has been reduced as a result of the prioritisation of activities. These are annual events, and the ministry decided to prioritise activities in this environment. That is why the allocation was reduced.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. UPND Members called for a division.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, take your seat.

 

Hon. Government Members interjected.

 

Mr Nkombo: I am addressing the Chair.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, let us just follow the procedure. I have not observed anything that could actually –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: I have.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: I know ‒ No.

 

Mr Nkombo: You can rule me out of order, Sir.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: No, Sir. Let us concentrate on today’s business and move on. In fact, from now until 1955 hours, I will not allow any point of orders.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: So, Hon. Nkombo, I will not allow that point of order.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: Another point of order, Sir.

 

Laughter

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: A procedural point of order, Sir.

 

Hon. Member: Not ifyo!

 

Mr Nkombo: It will help the proceedings of this House.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: Not you.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: I am talking to the Chairperson.

 

Sir, that is how it happens. Just rule me out of order. You have refused to allow me to raise a point of order.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Nkombo, I think I have guided. I have guided that I am not going ‒

 

Mr Nkombo: That I am out of order.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: No, that is not the ‒

 

Mr Nkombo: That I am out of order.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: No, hon. Member, resume your seat.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo interjected.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Take your seat, hon. Member.

 

Mr Nkombo: Am I out of order?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: I have not allowed ‒

 

How can I rule you out of order when I have not heard you? I have just not allowed you ‒

 

Hon. Nkombo interjected.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, I think this is now ‒

 

Mr Nkombo: Before you send me out, I will leave because the rules of the House ‒

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, listen. I have not allowed you to rise on a point of order, neither have I asked you to leave the House. I do not want to ask you to leave the House because your side needs the numbers.

 

Laughter

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

It is time up.

 

Interruptions

 

Question that Vote 26/03 − Ministry of Information and Broadcasting –Planning and Information – K477,888,552 be ordered to stand part of the Estimates put and the House voted.

 

Ayes – (65)

 

Mr C. Banda

Mr S. Banda

Mr W. Banda

Mr Bwalya

Mr Chali

Ms Chalikosa

Mr Chama

Dr Chanda

Mr Chilangwa

Mr Chisopa

Mr Chiteme

Mr Chitotela

Mr Chungu

Mr Daka

Mrs Fundanga

Dr Hamukale

Mrs P. Jere

Mr Kafwaya

Mr Kalobo

Mr Kampyongo

Mr Kasandwe

Mr Katambo

Mr Kaziya

Dr Kopulande

Ms Langa

Mr Lubinda

Mr Mabumba

Mr A. B. Malama

Dr M. Malama

Mr Malanji

Mr Mbulakulima

Mr S. Miti

Mr Mubukwanu

Mr Mukosa

Ms Mulenga

Mr Mundubile

Mr Mung’andu

Mr Munkonge

Mr Mushimba

Mr Musonda

Mr Mutale

Mr Mwakalombe

Mr Mwamba

Mrs Mwanakatwe

Mr Mwila

Mr Ng’ambi

Mr Nkhuwa

Mr Nyirenda

Mr P. Phiri

Mr Sampa

Mr Sichalwe

Mr Sichone

Mr Sikazwe

Mr Simbao

Mrs Simukoko

Mr Siwale

Mr Siwanzi

Ms Subulwa

Rev. Sumaili

Mr L. Tembo

Mr M. Tembo

Dr Wanchinga

Mrs Wina

Mr Zimba

Mr M. Zulu

 

Noes – (33)

 

Mr Belemu

Mr Chaatila

Ms Chisangano

Mrs Chonya

Mr Imbuwa

Mr M. Jere

Mr Kakubo

Mr Kamondo

Ms Kasanda

Mr Kasonso

Mr Kintu

Mr Livune

Ms Lubezhi

Mr Lufuma

Mr Lumayi

Mr Machila

Mr Mbangweta

Mr Michelo

Mr Miyanda

Mr Miyutu

Mr Mulunda

Ms Mulyata

Dr Musokotwane

Mr Mutelo

Ms Mwashingwele

Mr Mweetwa

Mr Mwiimbu

Mr Mwiinga

Mr Nanjuwa

Mr Samakayi

Evg. Shabula

Mr Sing’ombe

Ms Tambatamba

 

Abstention – (01)

 

Mr Chabi

 

Question accordingly agreed to.

 

Vote 26/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 26/04 – (Ministry of Information and BroadcastingPress and Media Development – K18,290,410).

 

Dr Musokotwane: On a point of order, Sir.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, we have to make progress.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: The system!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Could we get some help, Information and Communications Technology (ICT) Department, what is wrong with the system?

 

Mr Nkombo: Kaili allow the point of order!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: I have noticed the problem. Whether one raises a point of order or not, we are still able to notice the problem. We have asked the ICT Department to look at the problem. We need to know what the problem is quickly.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, the ICT Department has just guided that some hon. Members did not press the “Present” key. Therefore, it is not our fault. The reason I read out the instructions is so that every hon. Member can follow them and we do not have this problem. We have to make progress.

 

Head 26/04 –

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

 

Dr Musokotwane: On a point of order, Sir!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

 

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, in the system that we are looking at, the Ayes were sixty-five, the Noes were thirty-three and there was one abstention. When you add those numbers, you get ninety-nine. However, the number of hon. Members present is said to be 102. Could you, please, explain what has happened.

 

Hon. Government Members: You did not press!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members, I think that we cannot delay. Some hon. Members had not logged in. Therefore, they were not captured by the system at the time of voting. We have to make progress.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: We have to make progress. I give the Floor to ‘Ms’ Mwashingwele and the hon. Member for Livingstone, ‘Mrs Jere’.

 

Laughter

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Sorry, I meant Mr Jere. I will end with Mr Jere.

 

Laughter

 

Ms Mwashingwele: Mr Chairperson, I thank you. I am “Ms Mwashingwele”, indeed.

 

Sir, why has the allocation to Programme 5013 – Activity 007 – Local Adjudication of SADC and COMESA Awards – K164,025 literally tripled, if not quadrupled, from K30,170 in the current Budget?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Are we there, hon. Minister? Please, answer.

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5013 – Activity 007 – Local Adjudication of SADC and COMESA Awards – K164,025 is meant to cater for the constitution of a panel of media experts to adjudicate on national, SADC and COMESA competitions. Sometimes, the members of the panel will have to travel out of the country.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Jere: (Livingstone): Mr Chairperson, Programme 5157 – Activity 001 – Support to Media Development – Nil was allocated K840,310 in 2018. Why has it not been funded for 2019?

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5157 – Activity 001 – Support to Media Development – Nil has not been funded because the allocation has been moved to Programme 5051– Activity 11 – Development of National Information and Media Policy – K200,000.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Vote 26/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 26/05 – (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting ServicesFinance Department – K3,525,235).

 

The Deputy Chairperson: I give the Floor to the hon. Member for Mitete, Mr Mutelo.

 

Laughter

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Mutelo, not ‘Mrs Mutelo’.

 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you. Of course, I am “Mr Mutelo”.

 

Sir, I seek clarification on Programme 5009 – Financial Management and Accounting – K1,832,525. This programme appears to be a new one. Why was it introduced?

 

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5009 – Financial Management and Accounting – K1,832,525 is required to effectively cater for the sensitisation of officers in charge of revenue collection in the provinces and distribution of accountable documents.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. UPND Members called for a division.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

______

 

HOUSE RESUMED

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

(Progress reported)

 

______

 

The House adjourned at 1957 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 2nd November, 2018.

 

____________

 

WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION

 

PERFORMANCE OF ZAMBIAN PARASTATAL COMPANIES

 

86. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo) asked the Minister of Finance:

 

  1. how many parastatal companies there were in Zambia as of 31st March, 2018;

 

  1. of the companies above, how many made profits from 2015 to 2017, year by year; and

 

  1. of the companies at (b), how many, by name, declared dividends to the Government in 2017.

 

The Minister of Finance (Mrs Mwanakatwe): Mr Speaker, there were forty-one parastatal companies that were operational as at 31st March, 2018. Of the forty-one companies, twenty-four are under the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) while the remaining seventeen were established under various Acts of Parliament and can only be transferred to the IDC once the respective Acts of Parliament have been amended.

 

Sir, there were six parastatal companies that were profitable in 2015 and 2016. The number of parastatal companies that were profitable in 2017 increased to seven. The table below shows parastatal companies that posted profits from 2015 to 2017.

 

Profitable Parastatal Companies in 2015 to 2017

 

2015                                                               2016                                                       2017

 

Mulungushi Village                             Mofed London                                    Mofed London

Complex

 

Zambia National                                 Zambia National                                 TAZAMA Pipelines

Commercial Bank                               Building Society

 

Indo-Zambia Bank                             Afrox-Limited                                      Zambia National

                                                                                                                         Building Society

 

Zambia National Building                 Zambia Airports                                 Mulungushi Village

Society                                              Corporation Limited                           Complex Limited

 

Nanga Farms                                        Zaffico                                                  ZISC Life

 

Indeni Petroleum                                 Nanga Farms                                        Nanga Farms Limited Limited

                                                                                                                          Indeni Petroleum Limited

 

Mr Speaker, the parastatal companies that declared dividends to the Government in 2017 were eight, namely:

 

  1. ZCCM-IH;

 

  1. TAZAMA Pipeline;

 

  1. ZNBS;

 

  1. Mulungushi Village Complex;

 

  1. ZSIC Life;

 

  1. Nanga Farms;

 

  1. Indeni;

 

  1. Zanaco; and

 

  1. Indo-Zambia

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.