Friday, 19^th October, 2018

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

HON. LANGA QUOTING FROM THE BIBLE AND LAYING WRITTEN PAPER ON THE TABLE

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, the House will recall that on Tuesday, 16^th October, 2018, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chilanga, Mrs Maria Langa, in her debate on the Motion of Supply purportedly quoted from the Bible when she said the following:

 

“Mr Speaker, I want to put it on record that a time is coming when Zambia will lend money to many nations and borrow from none as stated in Deuteronomy Chapter 28 Verse 12.”

 

The hon. Member proceeded to lay the paper that she quoted from on the Table.

 

To begin with, hon. Members, the rules of the House forbid quoting from the Bible. Secondly, a review of the document that the hon. Member laid on the Table showed that it was a hand- written statement signed by the hon. Member herself which, in fact, was contrary to Deuteronomy Chapter 28 Verse 12.

 

Hon. Members: Ah!

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order in the House.

 

It, therefore, constituted the hon. Member’s personal opinion. Hon. Members, documents that constitute an hon. Member’s opinion are inadmissible for laying on the Table. In view of this, the hon. Member was out of order and I, hereby, direct the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly to expunge the hon. Member’s statement and the document she laid on the Table from the verbatim record of the House. That is, not the statement entirely, but the part that refers to this particular document.

 

______

 

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

 

Madam Speaker, on Tuesday, 23^rd October, 2018, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

 

         Head 03 – National Assembly;

 

         Head 06 – Civil Service Commission Office of the President; and

 

         Head 05 – Electoral Commission.

 

Madam Speaker, on Thursday, 25^th October, 2018, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there be any. After that, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources on the National Assembly’s Approval of the Proposal to Ratify the Doha Amendment to the Kyoto Protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.

 

The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

 

         Head 04 – Ministry of Gender;

 

         Head 07 – Office of the Auditor-General; and

 

         Head 08 – Cabinet Office, Office of the President

 

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 26^th October, 2018, the Business of the House will commence with Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer. Thereafter, the House will deal with presentation of Government Bills, if there be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

 

         Head 09 – Teaching Service Commission, Office of the President; and

        

          Head 27 – Public Service Management Division.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

_______

 

HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, I thank you and, peace be with you.

 

 Madam Speaker, firstly, I want to congratulate Her Honour the Vice-President and His Excellency the President for hosting the National Day of Prayer, Fasting, Repentance and Reconciliation yesterday.

 

   Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, as Kabwe Central, we also want to say that we were privileged to be honoured by the presence of the President.

 

Madam Speaker, my question is in relation to people who boycott prayers. Zambia is a Christian nation which has a lot of people who want to get into State House who do not want prayers. What word of advice does Her Honour the Vice-President have for such …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kambita: Question, iwe!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order in the House.

 

Mr Ngulube: ... people who want to behave like the Pharisees.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Take your seat, hon. Member for Kabwe Central.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, during this segment, if there is no order in the House, I will simply stop the debate and the clock will run.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The clock will continue running until the forty-five minutes is –

 

Mr Michelo: It is okay.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: So, let us have order in the House. Those asking questions, get to the point. Ask your questions.

 

Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, ask your question.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, peace be on the United Party for National Development (UPND).

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Kambita: Keep your peace.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, my question is: What words of advice does Her Honour the Vice-President have for our colleagues who claim that Zambia is a Christian nation, and even go to church on Sunday and others on Saturday, but do not want prayers? I thank you and may peace be with my brothers.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, prayers mean two things for those who choose to stay away from them. One, they consider even prayers a political tool.

 

Ms Lubezhi laughed.

 

The Vice-President: Secondly, they are Antichrist …

Hon. UPND Members laughed.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubinda: Masonists.

 

The Vice-President: ... because that was an opportunity where we shared the Word of God, …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hmm!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: ... concentrate on reconciliation, peace and unity in our country. Of their own choice, people can opt to stay away from prayers. However, last week, we read in the newspapers that some leaders of political parties were persuading their followers not to participate in the prayers.

 

Mr Livune: No innuendos, mama.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, some of their followers followed the guidance of their leaders while others joined us in celebrating the National Day of Prayer, Fasting, Repentance and Reconciliation . It was a joyous moment.

 

Mr Michelo: Question!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I just pity those who stayed away because they really missed a celebration to praise God for the peace we enjoy in this country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, it is in public domain that a certain political leader wrote to the Chinese ambassador to stop the construction of certain roads like the Katunda/Lukulu Road in Mangango, …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

 

Mr Zimba: …Mwinilunga/Manyinga Road …

 

Mr Kambita: Question!

 

Mr Zimba: … and Kasempa/Mumbwa Road.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Zimba: Madam Speaker, what effect has the letter had on the construction projects and what word would Her Honour the Vice-President have for the people that would be affected by the road not being constructed?

 

Mrs Simukoko: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, …

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left.

 

Dr Kambwili: Where is the letter? Lay it on the Table.

 

The Vice-President: …the infrastructure development, especially the construction of roads has been a priority for the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. That is why from 2011, the President then introduced the Link Zambia 8,000 Km Road Project. It is from −

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. UPND Members laughed.

 

The Vice-President: Hon. Members, those who are interested to listen to the answer should help us to keep order …

 

Mr Kampyongo: Beniko serious.

 

The Vice-President: …in the House.

 

Mr Kampyongo: You are laughing like you are at a market or somewhere.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, infrastructure development in the road sector is still a priority. There are some construction works that were earmarked to be included in the Link Zambia 8,000 Km Road Project which resources could not allow. However, the Government has gone into discussions with the private sector entities as well as governments to find money to finance some of the roads payable in a number of years up to twenty to twenty-five years.

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, works on the roads that were mentioned, namely Mwinilunga/Manyinga Road, Kasempa/Mumbwa Road and Lukulu/Katundu Road are supposed to come under contractor financing. This means that the contractor is supposed to bring in his/ her money to put in the construction projects so that roads can be worked on. Now, some Opposition political parties have indicated to the Chinese that they do not want any Chinese to come to Zambia to work with the current Zambian Government –

 

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, Her Honour the Vice-President has not mentioned any political party.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Imbila yamushi.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: She has merely talked about a political party. You will allow her to continue with her answer.

 

Mr Lusambo: Nimbila yamushi, iyi.

 

Dr Kambwili: She is speculating.

 

Mr Lusambo: Naimwe mwaisa, kapenene uko. Efyo bamyumina imwe.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the fact that there has been so much opposition to Chinese investments in Zambia has led to the Chinese saying that perhaps, they should put breaks on the construction projects which they wanted to finance because the Zambian people do not want the roads, especially the ones that I have mentioned that are supposed to be worked on under contract financing.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, the Republic of China has eighteen nuclear reactors from which it is generating extremely cheap electricity from uranium resulting into cheap Chinese manufactured exports. When is the Government going to engage the Chinese Government so that our country can start benefitting from high grade uranium deposits in abundant supply in the Western Province, Southern Province and North-Western Province?

 

Mr Chabi: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President, do you want the question to be repeated?

 

The Vice-President indicated assent.

 

Mr Mwila: Madam Speaker, ...

 

Mr Michelo: Speak up.

 

Dr Kambwili: Ulekosha ishiwi, ulimwaume.

 

Mr Mwila: … China has eighteen nuclear reactors currently in operation which generate extremely cheap electricity from uranium.

 

Dr Chibanda: In China.

 

Mr Mwila: Yes, in China. The cheap electricity results in the manufacturing of extremely cheap Chinese exports. When is the Government going to engage the Chinese Government so that our country, Zambia, can start benefitting from our high grade uranium deposits which are available in the North-Western Province and Southern Province?

 

Mr Chabi: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, nuclear energy is a very important source of electricity. The Government is still looking into the uses of uranium in our country. We are still putting in place a solid policy that will address the uses of nuclear energy in the country, and storage of waste as well as all items that are part of nuclear energy. Therefore, as the Government, we are discussing these matters and soliciting for support from other countries that are advanced in the use of nuclear energy. When the discussions are concluded, and the Government has made a decision on how we are going to use nuclear energy, the nation will be informed.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Princess Mwape (Mkushi North): Madam Speaker, as Her Honour the Vice-President may be aware, some constituencies in this country are vast making it difficult for hon. Members of Parliament to carry out their duties effectively. When will the Government carry out a countrywide delimitation of constituencies?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it is true that some constituencies are very vast. Thus, it is only prudent that the Government makes a serious decision regarding the delimitation of constituencies. The Government intends to increase the number of constituencies through delimitation. However, hon. Members of Parliament should be aware that there are some constitutional provisions that require to be revised or amended in order to create new constituencies because this will also entail the demarcation of wards and polling stations. Therefore, the exercise is a big undertaking that requires a lot of resources. If possible, we hope the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) will source for funds to ensure that the delimitation of big constituencies is undertaken this coming year.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, when the Patriotic Front (PF) Government came into power, it formulated pro-poor policies. One of the policies is that of upgrading community schools into regular ones so that they can benefit from the facilities that regular schools get. A number of community schools have since been upgraded. Will the Government consider sending trained teachers to community schools which have been upgraded, especially that it is currently recruiting trained teachers?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the upgrading of community schools is one of the issues that the Government has always agonised over. We want all our schools to be at the same level. The community schools need to have trained teachers just like Government schools. However, there are currently so many community schools that the Government has decided to adopt some of them in stages. Each year, it takes a number of community schools and puts them on Government programmes including sending trained teachers to these schools. The Government will continue implementing this policy until we have the opportunity to have regular Government schools in all districts.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, as Her Honour the Vice-President may be aware, the Baobab land was offered to the public by the Lusaka City Council some time back. However, due to some other measures by the Government at the time, the land was given to a private investor. I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President why the Government of the Republic of Zambia has allowed the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) to buy this particular piece of land at a consideration of not less than US$35 million when it was given to the private investor without any consideration to the detriment of so many Zambians who had applied for that land. Why is the Government allowing NAPSA to engage in a purchase agreement worth more than US$35 million over this particular piece of land?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, apparently, this was a private transaction. However, should the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central be interested in getting more information on this piece of land, I suggest that he files a question for the ministry concerned to respond to it.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Madam Speaker, the people who go to church on Saturday and Sunday do not pay anything. I, therefore, would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President how much money was actually spent from the National Treasury to hold prayers across the country.

 

Mr Lubinda: Aah! Niwofunta uja.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the Government does not pay for people go to church. This is exactly what happened. Perhaps, where the Head of State was appearing, some arrangements were undertaken by the Government. However, people hired buses and taxes voluntarily to attend this function.

 

In any case, the hon. Member for Mapatizya was not there. How does he know how much was spent?

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, hon. Members from the Opposition should attend some of these functions …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: … so that they can see how Zambians respond to prayer services by sacrificing the little they have to attend them. This is exactly what happened yesterday because we were receiving telephone calls from people in rural areas that they had convened, celebrated and went home to shake hands with the people they had differed with. So, I think I should not even be asked how much the Government spent, function by function. It is very unfair because people fended for themselves. They went to the prayers on their own accord.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Madam Speaker, it must be put on record that Mr Hakainde Hichilema, president of the United Party for National Development (UPND), has been very concerned about the accidents on the road from Lusaka to the Copperbelt Province. He has been calling for the construction of a dual carriageway at a reasonable cost.

 

Madam Speaker, when we had a by-election in Mangango in 2014, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government sent a contractor to mobilise on the Katunda/Lukulu Road. After the PF won the election through Hon. Lingweshi, the contractor demobilised. When we went for elections in 2016, a contractor mobilised on the same road. After the election, the contractor demobilised. This Government has started playing the same old game because we are now going for another by-election in Mangango. Sooner or later, after the by-election, the contractor that is on that road will demobilise.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Livune: Madam Speaker, why should the PF Government be playing with the people of Zambia, and, in this particular case, the people of Mangango, over development which they have been deprived over a long period of time?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is the question? You know that you have not asked a question.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Livune: Madam Speaker, they have heard. My question was: Why should the PF Government be playing with the people of Zambia on matters of national development and in particular, the people of Mangango over the Katunda/Lukulu Road? In the past, contractors have been mobilising and demobilising. They are at it again and have started mobilising because of the by-election in Mangango.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, let me assure the hon. Member for Katombola that the PF Government is not playing with the people of Zambia. The PF Government is working for the people of Zambia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, unless the hon. Member was not in the House, he should have heard that I just gave the answer about the Lukulu/Katunda Road. I have said that the Lukulu/Katunda Road was under contract financing. This is what we discussed after realising that it was left out of the Link Zambia 8,000 Km Road Project. The contract financing mode was agreed upon, but now, the Chinese Government that wanted to fund the contractor is dragging its feet. This is because our colleagues across have said that the Chinese Government should not support this Government of today.

 

Mr Livune interjected.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: I explained this and I am still repeating it. They may laugh, but this is the issue.

 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the information that is being circulated to the outside world using some international media has been so damaging to this country, such that I do not know even why hon. Members question why we should implement this or that project. Therefore, the donors are saying that if this is how this country is, then they will not give us funds. Some hon. Opposition Members celebrate when they hear that, yet they want development for their constituencies. I see a big contradiction here.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lubinda: Double standards.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, if we really do not want to see development in our constituencies, we should continue blaming each other and the smear campaigns against Zambia. However, we should know that those that will suffer are the people in the villages and compounds. The people in here are alright because they receive a salary every month.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order in the House! There is no one who does not receive a salary in here.

 

Continue, Your Honour the Vice-President.

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I think we should be truthful to ourselves. In this House, we are all comfortable, but out there in the villages, our people are crying for help from us.

 

Mr Lubinda: Look at Hon. Livune.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, in fact, we should have been number one candidates to surrender part of our salaries so that we can help the children who cannot access education.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: So, Madam Speaker, I really get puzzled when hon. Members of Parliament ask for increments and new cars, yet when they stand in the House, they pretend as though they are fighting for the poor.

 

Mr Lubinda: Ulula!

 

The Vice-President: I really get very disappointed.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order in the House!

 

Her Honour the Vice-President, there is a danger in discussing the hon. Members of Parliament.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my left. Order in the House. Order on both sides of the House!

 

Hon. Members, let me guide the House. It is unprocedural for us to start debating ourselves. I have just guided and so, let me have order on the left as well as on the right so that Her Honour the Vice-President can give the responses to the questions.

 

Her Honour the Vice-President may continue.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I regret that I digressed a bit, but I think we should be truthful to ourselves. When this Government says that it will work on a certain road, definitely it will do that. I have assured some hon. Members of Parliament here that as soon as funds or certain financial arrangements are made, we will work on some roads. We are not just duping the people of Mangango and other areas. We are serious about ensuring that the roads in those areas are worked on.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I want to register my disappointment with two people who have not reconciled. These people were expected to have sat together in a house of prayer. These are the two individuals leading big political parties in Zambia. Therefore, I am very disappointed that they have not reconciled.

 

Madam Speaker, let me now come to my question. When the Government had the groundbreaking ceremony for the construction of the National House of Prayer, it was said that this project was going to be implemented using donations from well-wishers. I am surprised that our 2019 Budget has an allocation of K1 million for the construction of the National House of Prayer.

 

Is Her Honour the Vice-President able to tell us the economic benefits of this money in the Budget to our country when mothers in Mwembezhi are begetting on the floor?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the economic benefits from having the National House of Prayer are many, and they include peace in the country.

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: The concept of the National House of Prayer was based on accessing donations from well-wishers. The Government will make a contribution also, just like it is making one to the organisation of political parties, through the Zambia Centre for Interparty Dialogue (ZCID). So, likewise with the construction of the National House of Prayer, the Government will make its own contribution. However, the bulk of the contributions will come from well-wishers and the private sector. That is why even the organisation for yesterday’s prayer festival was done by churches. The Government was there just to preside over the functions.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Madam Speaker, allow me, on behalf of the people of Kaputa, to say thank you to His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ng’onga: ... for giving them thirty-one head of cattle. Since 1964, they have never received that sort of help from the Government.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ng’onga: Madam Speaker, let me now come to my question. The Northern Province, Mbala in particular, will host the centenary celebrations to mark 100 years since the First World War ended. This is supposed to be a national event because Zambia, when it was Northern Rhodesia, participated in the world war. What is the Government doing to ensure that even the people in Katombola and Senanga are part of this centenary celebration, and not only the people of Mbala?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, remembering the end of the First World War is an important event that should be celebrated by all Zambians. In fact, it is not only Zambian but, also, people from around the globe who should celebrate this event. People should be told that as the guns were silenced in Europe, the war was still going on in Africa. Zambia in particular, was surrounded by the Germans. The German Government was in charge of Tanzania at the time. It was also in charge of South West Africa which is now Namibia including the Caprivi. The Caprivi was part of Zambia before, but at the time of the Second World War, it was taken away from Zambia and incorporated in South West Africa. So, these are the issues that even our children should know about. They need to know about what happened in 1918 when the war came to an end, and what brought peace in the world, especially after the Second World War.

 

Madam Speaker, all these issues have to be known by our communities. They need to understand why we are commemorating the end of the First World War in Mbala. Some of our relatives were engaged in ending the war in northern Zambia because they were carriers of katundu or luggage that went to support the war effort. Many people from the Western Province at that time, led by the late Sir Mwanawina Lewanika, were involved in this war. So, it is very important for Zambians to be told about this war and how it ended in our territory at the time. The Government will do everything possible to ensure that this information is disseminated to the people of Zambia.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Speaker, thou shall not be quick to remove a speck in your brother’s eye leaving ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Lufuma: ... the log in your eyes.

 

Madam Speaker, we, the Zambian people, were very grateful to the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) for having exposed the extent of corruption in the Patriotic Front (PF) Government.

 

Hon. Government Member: Question!

 

Mr Lufuma: Now, if FIC had not done as it did, we would have been wallowing in the sea of speculations and rumours, but now, we know better. My question is: What has the Government done to bring the culprits who were cited in this report to book? Did the Government suspend the cited culprits so as to give leeway to the investigative wings to investigate without any hindrance so that the same culprits are brought to book? Two, ...

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: One question only. Allow others to ask their questions. Are you done with your question?

 

Mr Lufuma: No, it is a support question about the same issue.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Conclude, we are running out of time.

 

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, what has the Government done to demonstrate to the people of Zambia that it does not only pay lip service to ending corruption, but is serious about it?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, ...

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Kapata: Nalelanda na Gary.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, a party that has never been in the Government –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources.

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I was just saying that a political party that has never been in the Government cannot know about the operations and workings of the Government.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC), Auditor-General’s Office, Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and all the other units were created to monitor and curb corruption. If this Government was so corrupt, it could have taken away or closed all these institutions. However, because this Government is determined to stop corruption in its operations, it has allowed FIC to operate and expose whatever it finds in the system. The Government takes measures, administrative or criminal prosecution in nature to follow the culprits. When officers are found wanting, they definitely face the law. You have seen this in relation to the Auditor-General’s Report. Also, some of the information that was brought out by FIC is being followed up by the investigative wings. So, you cannot say that if it were not for that unit, which is part of the Government anyway, you would not have had any information …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: … regarding corruption in the Government. So, I think we should understand these issues because all these units were created to help the Government curb corruption, misappropriation and misapplication of Government resources. They are there so that the money that is intended to help the poor goes to addressing their challenges.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, how is the Patriotic Front (PF) Government able to find money to buy a presidential jet and build villas in Swaziland, yet it cannot find money for works on the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road? Why is your Government like that?

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, spreading malicious information will not build the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road. There is no villa that is built in Swaziland that I know of.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

You are not aware of it.

 

The Vice-President: I may not be aware, but I know that there is no villa.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, these are the stories that are being spread around.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on the left!

 

Mr Lubinda: Rumours of hate.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Members have seen that villa, we should have the photographs so that we all see them also. Otherwise, it is non-existent.

 

Mr Lubinda: If it is there, it is in their imagination.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we have discussed the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road before. There is no need to add more information other than what has already been given.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Madam Speaker, some parts of the country have already received some rain. May I know when farmers will get their inputs.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I think an answer to that question was provided in this House by the hon. Minister of Agriculture. He categorically explained that farming inputs are being distributed to the districts. As late as last Tuesday, if I may recollect, a substantial amount of money was paid to the seed suppliers to reinforce the fertiliser that was sent out earlier. I know that some of the suppliers have started supplying seed to some districts for the farmers to start the planting season early.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Ms Mwashingwele (Katuba): Madam Speaker, we have had a number of by-elections in the country. Is Her Honour the Vice-President able to tell this House how much the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has spent on by-elections between 1^st January, 2018 and 30^th September, 2018?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I know that Her Honour the Vice-President will not have such details. Perhaps she can respond, if she does have the details.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, if I had my way, I would see to it that this country holds elections once and for all, except when there is a death of an hon. Member of Parliament or a councillor. However, as it is, we are compelled by the Constitution to hold elections whenever a seat falls vacant. With regard to the amount of money used, I do not have the figures right here. Maybe, the hon. Member can file a question.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Chikote (Luampa): Madam Speaker, as you are aware, all Government departmental offices were found at Luampa Central. Why should an individual from the province decide to move the Office of the District Education Board Secretary without the consensus of the stakeholders in Luampa?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the Provincial Education Office (PEO) must have a reason for relocating the District Education Board Secretary’s (DEBS) office. As you know, the DEBS comes under the PEO. Therefore, there must be a reason for that. I am not very conversant with the situation in Luampa, but the hon. Member of Parliament will do well to find out from the provincial administration in Mongu why the situation is as it is.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr M. Tembo (Sinda): Madam Speaker, maternal deaths have risen in this country, especially in the Eastern Province, and Sinda and Petauke, in particular. What is your Government, ...

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Your Government.

 

Mr M. Tembo: ... which is also my Government, doing to reduce maternal deaths?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the issue of maternal deaths is of great concern to the Government. That is why the Government went to the extent of constructing 650 health posts throughout the country.

 

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: It did that for one simple reason among many others. It is for the mothers to give birth in medical facilities. In addition, there are some mini hospitals being built throughout the country to ensure that our people have access to health facilities. I am sure that even in Sinda Parliamentary Constituency, there are some rural health centres that have been built out of the 650 health posts as well as mini hospitals. Therefore, we consider this issue to be very important. Additionally, the Ministry of Health has engaged community health workers to help pregnant women with information on how they can take care of themselves in terms of nutrition and other activities that will help the mother and the baby. That information is also aimed at ensuring that the pregnant women give birth in a health facility.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

_______

 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

 

PROCUREMENT OF OIL FROM SAUDI ARABIA

 

The Minister of Energy (Mr Nkhuwa): Madam Speaker, I would like to sincerely thank you for this opportunity to update the nation, through this august House, on the procurement of fuel from Saudi Arabia through a government to government loan.

 

Madam Speaker, as the House is aware, Zambia is a landlocked country with no proven reserves of crude oil. Therefore, Zambia imports all petroleum products requirements. Petroleum is supplied into Zambia via a crude oil pipeline running a distance of 1,710 km from Dar-es-Salaam, Tanzania, to Ndola’s Indeni Refinery, and road trucks carrying refined products from Tanzania, South Africa and Mozambique.

 

Madam Speaker, the discussion about the procurement of the Saudi Arabia fuel started in 2014 when the Saudi Fund for Development (SFD) offered the Zambian Government a loan of US$20 million towards the supply of petrol and diesel by the Saudi Aramco Product Trading Company (Aramco Trading), up to the port of Dar-es-salaam. Aramco Trading is the Saudi Arabian national petroleum and national gas company with the world’s largest proven crude oil reserves. The contract that was signed in February 2015, with Aramco Trading for the supply of 1.3 million litres of petrol which is equivalent to sixteen days of national consumption and 27.2 million litres of diesel which is equivalent to thirteen days of national consumption.

 

Madam Speaker, I wish to dispel the rumours by the general public that the deal was signed by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia at the time when he made a visit to Saudi Arabia in 2015. It must be clear that His Excellency the President and his delegation at that time, had discussions with the business community in Saudi Arabia on various opportunities for investment into different sectors of the economy, including energy.

 

Madam Speaker, with regard to the petroleum sector, it was agreed, in principle, between His Excellency the President and the business community in Saudi Arabia that the SFD would facilitate the supply of cheap fuel to Zambia. There was no agreement signed as the decision had to be formalised by the technical teams from both countries.

 

Madam Speaker, the contract between the Government and Aramco Trading could not be implemented in 2015 as envisioned due to logistical reasons which included the approval process involving the Ministry of Justice, Ministry of Finance and Bank of Zambia in order to reach the financial closure. Consequently, the financial agreement with the SFD was not signed in 2014 as expected. Nevertheless, following our commitment to adhere to the conditions of the facility, the financial agreement was signed in 2016 and this facilitated the signing of a new contract with Aramco Trading in 2018.

 

Madam Speaker, hon. Members of the House may wish to note that although the financial agreement was signed in 2016, the ministry still had a few processes to conclude such as the opening of a letter of credit, legal clearance of requisite agreement, just to mention but a few, to facilitate the signing of the new contract with Aramco Trading.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Members of this House may wish to note that at the time the deal was signed in 2015, the anticipated impact of the fuel from Saudi Arabia was a perceived reduction in the price of fuel to K5.00 per litre at the pump. I wish to take this opportunity to clarify that the K5.00 was initially the estimated landed cost and not the pump price because it excluded inland costs such as transport and dealer margins, amongst others.

 

Madam Speaker, it is worth noting that in view of the period between 2015 and 2018, a number of variables have changed and these have influenced the price of fuel to increase. The variables include the fluctuation of the Zambian Kwacha against the US dollar. The average exchange rate in 2014 was K6.1 to US$1 while today it is at K12.2 to US$1. As regards t

 

he international oil market price, for instance, the crude oil price was at US$49.49 per barrel while it stood at US$78.25 barrel between February and September 2018. These variables have doubled and further inland costs such as transport costs have also changed over the period. As you may be aware, these are major economic fundamentals which determine the pump price of fuel in Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to inform this august House and the general public that the expiration of the initial contract signed in 2015 and the advent of a new contract with Aramco Trading in 2018 culminated into the supply of reduced quantities to 15.3 million litres of petrol and 15.2 million litres of diesel. The 15.3 million litres of petrol represents twelve days consumption based on the daily consumption of 1.3 million litres while 15.2 million litres represents six days stock of diesel consumption based on a daily consumption of 2.5 million litres per day.

 

Madam Speaker, currently, 10 million litres of diesel have been received at our Government depot while 699.222.88 litres of petrol is in transit. This leaves a balance of 5.3 million litres of diesel and 14.6 million litres of petrol to be delivered.

 

Madam Speaker, at the time when the fuel from Saudi Arabia arrived at the port of Dar-es-Salaam in August 2018, the fuel refined at Indeni Refinery and the imported fuel had a landed cost of K8.18 per litre for diesel and K8.3 per litre for petrol while the landed cost of the fuel from Saudi Arabia was at K8.79 per litre for diesel and K8.76 per litre for petrol as opposed to the anticipated K5 per litre within this period. We have seen the Zambian Kwacha has depreciated by 26.39 per cent from February 2018 to date. The price per litre of the Saudi Arabia fuel was slightly higher due to the specifications of the product. The diesel imported from Saudi Arabia is Ten Past Per Million (10PPM) of sulfur content while we currently receive Fifty Past Per million (50PPM) of sulfur content. This means that the diesel that was received was of a more superior quality than the one which we normally receive which is 50PPM.

 

Madam Speaker, in the case of petrol, the 95 research octane number (RON) while our imports are at the 93RON. I would like to make sure that I clarify this particular point. The 95RON is superior to the 93RON whereas on the other side, it is the opposite. 10PPM is superior to 50PPM. It should be noted that at the time of the discussions of the contract with Aramco Trading, the best specifications for diesel and petrol had a competitive price.

 

Madam Speaker, further to the above, it should be noted that a US$20 million loan from the SFD does not include the cost for logistics for transporting the fuel from the port of Dar-es-Salaam to Zambia. Therefore, the Government had to source for funds for logistics. This also added to the increase in the cost of fuel.

 

Madam Speaker, in light of the changes in the economic fundamentals, the impact of carrying petrol and diesel quantities from Saudi Arabia will not affect the current pump price as the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) computes the average price based on the combination of petroleum products coming from Indeni Oil Refinery Company Limited and other suppliers of finished products.

 

Madam Speaker, considering that the petrol and diesel being supplied by Aramco Trading under the hospices of the SFD will not be sufficient to meet national consumption requirements, the following is being undertaken:

 

1. the Government, through the ministry will continue to procure petrol and diesel      from current suppliers of finished products in order to supplement products from  Indeni Refinery Company Limited. This is because the fuel from Saudi Arabia   can last for about six days for diesel and 12 days for petrol;

 

1. under the current circumstances, we have specifications that have a higher price on the international market. We are currently evaluating the Saudi Arabian facility with the view of determining the next course of action.

 

Madam Speaker, while the fuel from Saudi Arabia has not had the anticipated impact on the price, it has nevertheless created employment opportunities for our citizens and empowered our local transporters. Currently, the Government, under the unwavering leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, has specifically allocated the transportation of fuel coming from Saudi Arabia to Zambian registered transporters.

 

Madam Speaker, allow me to address some of the issues surrounding the current adjustment of fuel prices as was alluded to earlier. There are two key factors that determine the price of fuel in Zambia and these are international oil prices and the exchange rate of the Zambian Kwacha against the US Dollar. In addition, fuel prices are determined on the basis of each cargo of petroleum feedstock and finished petroleum products imported. Each cargo lasts for forty-five days on average and prices are determined to ensure full cost recovery among other considerations.

 

Madam Speaker, as the House is well aware, the Zambian Kwacha has depreciated against major currencies, for example, the US Dollar. This depreciation in the exchange rate has had an adverse effect on domestic fuel prices due to the poor performance of the Zambian Kwacha against the US Dollar. It had become imperative to have a price adjustment on 3^rd October, 2018, in line with the cost reflectivity principles of the cost plus pricing model which the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) is currently using to determine the pump price.

 

Madam Speaker, my ministry in consultation with the ERB is making tireless efforts to reduce fuel prices. However, the Government cannot prevent the price of petroleum products from increasing or reducing, but only optimise and revise its price build-up costs in liaison with other stakeholders. Further, the Government is currently looking at models which can benefit the Zambian people to ensure optimal prices.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement which has been issued by the hon. Minister of Energy.

 

Dr Chibanda (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, was this loan once off or a rollover? If it is a rollover, when is it supposed to be paid back or what is the length of the rollover?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, the loan is a rollover. Once we receive all the fuel, sell it and pay for it, we will get another US$20 million. However, like I said earlier, the US$20 million is not enough. Thus, we have to look at how we can negotiate for a bigger loan that can bring in bigger quantities of fuel.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, there must have been some benefits for the ministry to have entered into this agreement with the Saudi Arabia Government. Are there any benefits to this contract?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member heard me mention the figures in my statement, he should be aware that there was no benefit on this particular fuel because the specs of fuel that came into Zambia were of a higher spec and therefore, the price was a bit more. I have also stated that we are going to get more details like quotations on the 50PMM and 93RON fuel so that we can compare the prices and come back to the House to say whether we will go ahead with the Saudi Arabian deal or not.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has told the House that some of the factors that have led to the increment in fuel prices are the exchange rate, the international price of oil and the cost of freight. Would it not be prudent for the Government to consider importing fuel from our neighbouring country, Angola, to reduce on the cost because fuel prices in our neighbouring countries are very low.

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, indeed, it would be prudent for the Government to think about importing fuel from Angola. In line with that, when I stood here last week, I said that the Angolan Minister of Energy was coming to sign a memorandum of understanding (MOU) in view of putting up a fuel pipeline from Angola into Lusaka. Unfortunately, at the last minute, the hon. Minister did not make it. We got the information that he would not make it around 1800 hours when he was supposed to arrive at 2100 hours. The date has been moved to sometime in November this year. We are waiting for the exact date to be given. The Government is looking into the possibility of getting some reasonably cheap oil from Angola.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Madam Speaker, quite clearly, this deal appears not to be concluded as there are a lot of issues associated with it. What motivated the Government at the time to tell the Zambian people that there would be cheap fuel and what value does the hon. Minister think his statement adds to the scenario in the context of the original announcement?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I will go back to what I said in my speech. At the time we were talking about this in 2014, the Zambian Kwacha was trading at about K6.1 against the US Dollar as opposed to K12.2. Further, the estimated cost was US$5 to land the fuel in Dar-es-Salaam. That is what motivated the Government to move into this deal. At that point in time, the deal looked lucrative.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Evangelist Shabula (Itezhi-Tezhi): Madam Speaker, the Government promised the people of Zambia that the price of fuel would be K5 per litre. Is it still K5 or are we going to wait for a time when it will be K5 per litre? I ask this question because according to me, the Government has cheated the people Zambia ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Evangelist Shabula: ... or rather has misled the people of Zambia. When do we expect to see cheap fuel from Saudi Arabia?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, in concluding my statement, I said that my ministry is looking at logistics to see whether this contract is worth continuing. I stated that my ministry is investigating the matter. We will give them the right specification of the fuel that we want, which is 50 PPM for diesel and then, we will do all the costing. Now that we have landed this fuel, we are able to tell all the other costs that are involved. Then, we will get back to the House and state whether we will be able to continue to bring cheap fuel from Saudi Arabia. At the moment, the fuel from Saudi Arabia definitely did not prove to be cheaper because as hon. Members heard from the statement, we landed it in Dar-es-Salaam at K8.79 and K8.76 for diesel and petrol, respectively. The other supplier’s was cheaper as it landed fuel at K8.18 and K8.32. So, it is definitely not cheaper. This is the cost as it is.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Madam Speaker, it was first reported in May 2016, that cheap oil from Saudi Arabia was coming. It is now 2018, more than two years later. What has caused all the delay which has consequently escalated the value in terms of the foreign exchange?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, in my preamble, I said that the first contact over this oil deal was in 2014. We had to put in place logistics and get clearance from various offices before signing the contracts. This took long and that is how come we are only receiving the fuel in 2018. I stated earlier that it took long to get the contract signed. We only signed the contract in 2016 and started getting the fuel in 2018. Logistical issues delayed the whole process.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Madam Speaker, I know that the people of Zambia did not benefit from the cheap fuel that the hon. Minister is talking about. Additionally, the Government ordered wrong fuel because it sent wrong specifications. Does this not show incompetence on its part?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I said that we ordered fuel of a higher specification. In short, we ordered superior fuel. If the situation was the other way round, people would have complained that the fuel we ordered had damaged their engines. If, instead of ordering 50 PPM, we ordered 5,000 PPM, then people would have complained that the fuel was inferior. Yes, we did not intend to order 10 PPM and 95 RON, but a slightly inferior fuel which we use and has been approved by the Southern African Development Community (SADC). This is the 50 PPM which we are supposed to use in Zambia, but we ordered the 10 PPM which is a superior fuel. There was a mistake, but it is not one that would damage the economy of the country.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: The question was competence.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the US$20 million Saudi Arabian fuel loan did not cover the cost of transporting the fuel from the port of Dar-es-Salaam into Zambia. How much in total did his ministry source and spend in transporting the fuel from Dar-es-Salaam into Zambia.

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I do not have particular information on how much it cost, but I can give the hon. Member the price build-up to the cost of fuel. I said that on the landed price of fuel in Zambia from other traditional suppliers and the fuel that we produce at Indeni Oil Refinery, we put the average price and then work it out to come up with the price. Suffice to say that the price build-up consists of ocean loses at 0.3 per cent, roughage at 1.25 per cent and insurance at 0.15 per cent. In addition, we pay Tanzania-Zambia Mafuta (Tazama) storage fees at US$1.30 per metric tonne, Tazama pumping fees at US$54 per metric tonne and Tazama Pipeline losses at 1.48 per cent. Further, the build-up consists of agency fees paid to Tazama at US$5 per metric tonne, refinery fees at US$60 per metric tonne, refinery losses at 9 per cent and terminal losses on liquefied petrol gas (LPG) at 1 per cent. When you add up these figures, you end up with the pump price of K16 per litre.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms Mwashingwele (Katuba): Madam Speaker, from being a gift, the fuel has now gone to being a loan. The hon. Minister has now even made it worse by telling us that it was wrong fuel. Is he aware that it was the Republican President and part of his Cabinet that actually went to secure this fuel on behalf of the people? This has legal implications. Is the hon. Minister aware that they are actually taking the people of Zambia for granted?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, in my statement, I said that when the President went to Saudi Arabia, he had a few meetings with different people. He did not sign the fuel contract. My ministry did all the logistics and signed it. Therefore, the President of the Republic of Zambia is not taking the people of Zambia for granted. I will read the statement again.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkhuwa: I will read it.

 

I wish to dispel the rumours by the general public that the deal was signed by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia at the time when he made his visit to Saudi Arabia in 2015. It must be clear that His Excellency the President, and his delegation at the time, had discussions with the business community in Saudi Arabia on various opportunities for investment in different sectors of the economy, including energy. With regard to the petroleum sector, it was agreed in principle – I will repeat – It was agreed in principle between His Excellency the President and the business community in Saudi Arabia that the SFD would facilitate supply of cheap fuel to Zambia. There was no agreement signed as the decision had to be formalised by technocrats at the ministries here and in Saudi Arabia.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, from where I am standing, the predecessor to the hon. Minister said this fuel was a gift. Now, the hon. Minister is saying it was a loan. Who is misleading the nation? Is it the hon. Minister or his predecessor? The Patriotic Front (PF) should tell us. Are we still expecting the free fuel?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, from where I am seating, I am not misleading the nation. I do not think that my predecessor misled the nation because the document is there. It was never a grant. It was a loan from the word go.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister seems to have entangled himself …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Mmm!

 

Yes!

 

Mr Muchima: … when responding to questions. It was very clear on the Floor of the House that through the gift, we would get cheap fuel. Hon. Minister since you have realised that it was no longer cheap fuel –

 

Mr Nkombo: Cheap wrong gift

 

Mr Muchima: Cheap wrong gift.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, is the Government still interested in signing the contract for the fuel which has turned into a loan? Where have the technocrats who failed to advise on the possible end result of this fuel landing in Zambia been?

 

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I said that the fuel that we are getting was slightly more expensive and that my ministry is going to look into the logistics before coming back to tell this House whether we are going to continue with the transaction or not. However, I must state, once again, that the records that are in my office do not indicate anywhere that that fuel was a gift.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the exchange rate is one of the factors that contribute to the price of fuel. Will the general election, like the one coming in 2021, be one of the factors considered by the Government to reduce fuel prices and give an illusion to the people of Zambia that the Patriotic Front (PF) is a caring Government?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I cannot allow that question.

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister should try to be realistic. We are tired of the incompetence of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister should try to give hope to the people of Zambia. Is the hon. Minister in a position to tell the nation when the fuel price will be reduced so that people can start purchasing fuel at about K10 per litre? At what stage is the price of fuel going to be reduced?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, when certain factors such as the kwacha gaining and the price of fuel at the international market change, we shall pass on the benefits to the Zambians. The projected oil price on the market today is somewhere in the range of US$85 per barrel. By the time we get to December, it is projected to reach a high of US$100 per barrel. This is beyond our control. Maybe, we have to be taught on how to play some magic such that we buy fuel at US$100 per barrel and come and sell it at US$50 per barrel. At the moment, I am not competent enough to buy fuel at US$100 per barrel and sell it for US$50 per barrel.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for educating our colleagues. There is so much ignorance.

 

Hon. Opposition: Ah!

 

Dr Chanda: Madam Speaker, it is actually very shocking that people do not know what determines the global prices of crude oil. So, I would urge hon. Members to read.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my left.

 

Dr Chanda: So, hon. Minister…

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Dr Chanda, just give me a few moments.

 

Hon. Members on the left, it is not acceptable. He has as much right to ask a question as all of you do. Allow him to ask a question.

 

Dr Kambwili: That is not a question.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, continue with your question.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda: So, following up on that ignorance on how global prices are determined, hon. Minister, I wish to state that the fuel that we are talking about is basically for consumption. We consume the crude oil after it is processed.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: What is our question?

 

Dr Chanda: My question is: …

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Chanda: …What are the ministry’s plans, apart from having the fuel for consumption, on getting fuel for strategic reserves which we can use to intervene when the global fuel prices are so high?

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mumbi Phiri: Ema doctors aya!

 

Interruptions

 

Mrs Mumbi Phiri: Ema doctors aya not shibukeni doctors.

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa for that very educative question.

 

Madam Speaker, the ministry is in a process of putting up storage tanks around the country. We have earmarked places like Lusaka, Kabwe, Choma and Kapiri Mposhi, the Copperbelt and Solwezi, among others. So, we are in the process of putting up fuel storage tanks for strategic reserves to make sure that the country can run effectively.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, Zambia has been a landlocked country ever since creation. It is not a new thing. Would the transaction of oil be classified as a social service? Is it just a service provided to the people or it is so economic in nature that the Government went into a contract of a loan worth US$20 million which has provided Zambians with inappropriate fuel?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Um!

 

Mr Miyutu: Is this a social service or an economic activity?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, the contract is an economic activity for the Republic of Zambia. We do not only buy fuel from Saudi Arabia, but we also buy fuel from other suppliers that have been supplying us all along. That US$20 million worth of fuel cannot last the country many days. So, we do bring in fuel from other suppliers as well. That is how we are able to meet the demand for fuel in this country. So, we are serious. It is for economic reasons.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Madam Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government went on mountain tops telling this country about this cheaper fuel from Saudi Arabia ...

 

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Lubezhi: ...which turned out to be expensive. Allow me to quote from ...

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Ms Lubezhi: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that the PF Government had gone on top of the mountain telling this nation that it had procured cheaper fuel from Saudi Arabia. Having listened to the hon. Minister, it seems the Ministry of Energy was operating on assumptions. I will quote and lay on the Table of the House an article by the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) which reads:

 

“The Saudi Arabia Government, through the Saudi Fund for National Development, has offered a US$20 million revolving fund to supply cheaper oil to Zambia and reduce domestic fuel prices for the next five years. Zambia’s Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Ibrahim Mumba, says the offer is now in its final stages and with President Edgar Lungu’s visit to the kingdom which starts tomorrow, Zambia is expected to start benefitting from cheaper fuel after a month.”

 

Madam Speaker, the catch in the quotation is the ‘five years’. When President Edgar Lungu went to Saudi Arabia, we were told that the procured fuel would last for five years. The hon. Minister today has told us that actually, the fuel was just supposed to last for six to twelve days. At what point did the ‘five years’ reduce to between six and twelve days?

 

Ms Lubezhi laid the paper on the Table.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: She was reading from an article by the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation.

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, we signed a contract for a revolving fund for five years so that we would get more fuel after paying the loan off. I have documentation in my office showing that we got a loan of US$20 million. The Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) sometimes misquotes people. I do not know what Ambassador Mumba said when he addressed the press. However, there is documentation in my office for a revolving fund for a five-year contract. It was agreed that after we had paid for the fuel we would get, we would get more for five years. However, I said that we will review the deal to see if we will continue buying fuel from Saudi Arabia.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, the Government went all the way to Saudi Arabia thinking it would bring cheap fuel, but instead brought expensive fuel and sometimes, got bad fuel. Is it not clear that, as a Government, it does not really know what to do about the oil sector and is better off leaving the whole business to the private sector which will know where to buy cheap and good fuel? Why is the Government bothering to do things it is not capable of doing?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, last time, I indicated that the private sector will soon be procuring fuel. We are going towards a direction where the private sector will be procuring fuel.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr S. Banda (Kasenengwa): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the oil which was procured was supposed to accrue socio-economic net benefits to the country as opposed to what was delivered. However, to deter our colleagues on your left from having unwarranted, yet misleading and calculated arguments, what proactive administrative and technical measures has the Government put in place to ensure that there is no disparity between what is procured and what is delivered?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, we do have a system that enables us to know exactly what is laden on the trucks, and when offloading, we make sure that we know exactly what is being offloaded to ensure that we get the right fuel. We also do fuel marking in Zambia to ensure that people do not tamper with the fuel. Therefore, we have a system in place.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, our fuel is the most expensive in the region. Why does the Government not find out where our neighbouring countries buy cheap fuel from so that it can also go and buy from cheap sources?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, like somebody indicated earlier on, Zambia is a landlocked country. It is a long way to transport fuel from Dar-es-Salaam to Zambia, through the Copperbelt to Lusaka. It is a distance of 2,000 km whereas some of our neighbouring countries get fuel straight from the port. Therefore, the transportation costs have not spared us with regard to the price of fuel.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Miti (Feira): Madam Speaker, we know that middlemen add to the high cost of the goods sold. In the quest of reducing the fuel pump price, when will the ministry start buying fuel on a government to government contract basis?

 

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, earlier on when I was answering a question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa, I said that we are moving away from the procurement of fuel. Therefore, we do not intend to continue procuring fuel. Going forward, the private sector will be procuring fuel. We are examining the whole system that we want to introduce to ensure that the Zambian people benefit from it.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

_______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

PROCUREMENT OF AIRCRAFTS

 

72. Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga) asked the Vice-President:

 

1. whether the Government has procured any aircrafts;

 

1. if so, how many aircrafts have been procured;

 

1. what the purpose of each aircraft is;

 

1. what the total cost of the aircrafts is; and

 

1. what the source of funds for the procurement of the aircrafts is.

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Speaker, Article 192(1) of the Constitution of Zambia establishes the Defence Force of Zambia consisting of the Zambia Army, Zambia Air Force (ZAF) and Zambia National Service (ZNS) as an auxiliary unit. The Constitution in Article 192 (2) provides for the function of the Defence Forces as follows:

 

1. preserve and defend the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic;

 

1. foster harmony and understanding between the Zambia Army, Zambia Air Force, an auxiliary unit and members of society; and

 

1. co-operate with State organs and State institutions in times of public emergencies and national disasters.

 

Madam Speaker, the specific functions of ZAF include the following:

 

1. defend and protect the Zambian airspace, sovereignty and territorial integrity;

 

1. provide support to ground forces;

 

1. undertake air defence operations;

 

1. undertake air transportation of very important persons (VIPs);

 

1. co-operate with and assist civil authorities in emergencies, relief and disaster management operations;

 

1. provide search and rescue capabilities for emergency relief and disaster management operations;

 

1. engage in developmental activities of the country; and

 

1. perform any other duties as may be directed by the Government from time to time.

 

Madam Speaker, for ZAF to carry out its functions, it inter-alia employs air assets which include aircrafts. This capability is achieved through the Air Transport Support Command, which is an arm of ZAF charged with the primary responsibility of lifting troops and their equipment in the theatre of operations using both fixed wing and rotary aircrafts. In addition, ZAF has the responsibility of transporting VIPs and cargo as well as conducting humanitarian operations as seen from the functions outlined in the Defence Policy.

 

Madam Speaker, the bulk of equipment in the Defence Force of Zambia was acquired prior to and immediately after Independence. Most of this equipment has now become obsolete with the ever changing military technology.

 

Madam Speaker, this Question on the Floor comes a few days after the hon. Minister of Transport presented a statement on the progress made to towards establishing a national airline. In this case, I take it that the hon. Member who asked this Question is not inquiring into aircrafts under that arrangement. The only other unit through which the Government can procure aircrafts is the Defence Wing. In that respect, the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ), acting through the Ministry of Defence, entered into contracts to procure various defence equipments, among which aircrafts are included. The quantities and purpose of the equipment as well as the cost of purchasing the said equipment cannot be made public for the following reasons:

 

1. the information being sought borders on national security; and

 

1. the purpose of the said defence equipment is bound by non-disclosure.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, let me guide the House. The constitutional provision that Her Honour the Vice-President has made reference to has to do with State security. Therefore, this Question is extremely sensitive. Thus, I am going to be listening to every word. If there is even an indication that we are straying, not being sensitive or cautious, I am going to curtail the debate. You have to bear that in mind. I am sure as a responsible House, we are not going to make our nation vulnerable. So, let us try to take note of that.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, I have been looking at this Question and noticed that it is too wide and does not even state –

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I apologise to Hon. Ngulube for disturbing his question. However, my point of order is very compelling. I should have actually raised it the other day, soon after or during the time when the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure was debating. However, because of the rules that were set by the Chair that in that session of the debate, points of order would not be allowed and in order to allow me to get the record which comes only twenty-fours after it is delivered, I had to wait.

 

Madam Speaker, my point of order was further necessitated by the question that the hon. Member of Parliament for Chasefu asked Her Honour the Vice-President this morning. As usual, during Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, the House rules do not permit points of order. For the avoidance of doubt, I am going to also make reference to Cap 12 of the Laws of Zambia with regard to giving false evidence. For those who may be interested, that is on page 8 of the same statutes. So , I will not waste your time to read it.

 

Madam Speaker, I have with me in my hands, the verbatim copy of what the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development said.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You have not cited a section of that Act. Can you cite the section?

 

Mr Nkombo: Sure, Madam Speaker. It is Cap 87, Section 16 of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act. When you have time, please, refer to it.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Did you say Cap 87? For all I know, it is not –

 

Mr Nkombo: Cap 87, Section 16.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Cap 87, if I remember correctly, is the Penal Code.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, sorry. It is Cap 12, Section 16 of the National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) Act. I appreciate your correction.

 

Madam Speaker, this is also pursuant to our Standing Orders that do not permit us to use innuendoes in this House. I will quote what the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development said yesterday while he debated the Budget that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance.

 

Mrs Mumbi Phiri: Yesterday was a holiday.

 

Mr Nkombo: The day before yesterday. Thank you, Hon. Phiri.

 

Madam Speaker, here is the quotation:

 

“Madam Speaker, I am talking about the people of Kasempa who have been calling for the Mumbwa/Kasempa Road. The Government signed a contract with China Habour and we have even submitted the term sheet to the Ministry of Finance to start negotiations so that we can begin constructing the road. The UPND party wrote a letter, signed by Mr Hakainde Hichilema to stop the Government of China from funding those roads, yet you are an elected hon. Member of Parliament for Kasempa.”

 

Madam Speaker, in response to the protests that were made in the House regarding the way the hon. Minister was proceeding, you guided, and I will quote your guidance. You said to the hon. Minister:

 

“I will allow you to refer to the UPND as a party, but certainly not to the UPND President as an individual....The reason is that one, he is not here to defend himself and two, and perhaps most importantly, hon. Minister, is that you do not have the letter which we would have asked you to lay on the Table. Unless, you have the letter, hon. Minister, you can proceed.”

 

Madam Speaker, Hon. Chitotela responded by saying, ‘no’.

 

Madam Speaker, this morning, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chasefu asked the same question regarding the Katunda Road and Kasempa/Mumbwa Road to Her Honour the Vice-President. Her Honour the Vice-President responded in a way that would seemingly be convincing that she has had sight of that letter because she said that such problems are caused by people who are not patriotic to the country.

 

Madam Speaker, I have a copy of the letter that Mr Hakainde Hichilema wrote to the Chinese Government, in my hands. It is a public document because it was published by the Daily Nation newspaper on Thursday, 18^th October, 2018, the day of the Patriotic Front (PF) prayers. I will quote this letter word for word. After that, I will request your good office to make a ruling on my point of order. So, I am requesting humbly, that you be patient with me because the letter is not a short one.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, perhaps you can skip that part of reading the letter and go to your point of order because that letter was not adduced when the hon. Minister was speaking and I ruled, as you have rightly quoted, that in the absence of the letter, I was not going to allow the hon. Minister to continuously mention an individual who was not able to come here and defend himself. So, for that reason alone, I would rather you skip that part. Go to your point of order.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, content protects process.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are not the author of that letter neither is the hon. Minister nor Her Honour the Vice-President, whom you have mentioned in your point of order so far. I would like you to get to the point of order that affects the procedure of the House as well as the statements that may have been made by either Her Honour the Vice-President or the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development. Get to the point of order.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, yes. This is a House of not only facts, but records. The Hansard will go a long way in keeping that particular record that Mr Hakainde Hichilema said what the hon. Minister said and that he also was responsible for the response that Her Honour the Vice-President gave. However, for the purpose of your guidance, I will skip reading the letter because I have respect for the Chair. Suffice it to say that this letter does not make reference to the two roads, Kasempa Road and Katunda Road, anywhere. That must be taken into account. You will read this particular letter because I will lay the document on the Table. Once you have studied it, I hope a ruling will come.

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development, Hon. Ronald Chitotela, and Her Honour the Vice-President, in order to direct the Business of this House through innuendoes by suggesting that Mr Hakainde Hichilema asked the Chinese Ambassador to stop funding the construction of roads when, in fact, the opposite is true?

 

Madam Speaker, according to this letter, Mr Hakainde Hichilema said that Zambia and China have enjoyed a very, very warm, lengthy relationship and that if one part of that relationship was uncomfortable with the manner in which the financial arrangement is constructed, they needed to rise above board and help to make sure that these loans which the PF has contracted should be restructured in order for Zambians to stop suffering from the suffocation of the many taxes that this Government has imposed on its citizens in order to pay this debt which the PF has contracted. That was the thrust of Mr Hichilema’s letter.

 

Madam Speaker, my humble expectation is that you will in your time, read this letter word for word and come back to this House with a ruling.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo laid the paper on the Table.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Allow me to proceed. Take your seat so that I can deliver my ruling. There is no need to reserve it. My ruling is as follows: First, the person being referred to, who is not an hon. Member of this House, does not carry the mandate to deliver services to the people of Zambia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The Executive does, ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... and as a member of the public, this individual is free to communicate his views and perceptions to whoever he wants as he seems to have done. Therefore, the Chair does not even see the reason for the Executive to make reference to a letter written by an individual who does not carry the mandate, ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... to deliver services to the people of Zambia. I do not see the reason for the Executive to make references to letters written by members of the public or political leaders because they are entitled to write to whoever they wish. The role of the Executive is to respond to the needs of the people and focus on delivering the services that the people require.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is my ruling.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We will continue with the business of the House.

 

Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, please, continue.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, I have difficulties with the question on the Order Paper which is coming under Standing Order No. 31. Last time I raised a complaint with the Hon. Mr Speaker regarding the rules of admissibility of these questions and who decides whether they should appear on the Order Paper or not. As Member of Parliament, I am fully aware that such a question should not even have been allowed on the Order Paper. It does not even refer to any particular period, ...

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency, do you have a supplementary question on this?

 

Mr Ngulube: Yes, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Ask the question.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Bwekeshapo.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, who decides what type of questions should fall under Standing Order No. 31, ...

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

 

Mr Ngulube: ... and who allowed this kind of question, which borders on State security to be brought on the Floor?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, take your seat.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Order in the House.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

If the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwe Central Parliamentary Constituency wishes to understand the rules of admissibility of questions, he can go to the Journals and Table Office. He obviously does not have a supplementary question on this issue. We will go to the hon. Member for Mwinilunga.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Speaker, after listening to the explanation by Her Honour the Vice-President, I would like her to state, clearly, whether or not the Government has bought a presidential jet and from which source of financing.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President has given us the provision of the Constitution, and we will be reminded by that. She will, therefore, only answer whether or not the Government has bought a presidential jet.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the answer is no. That is because it is ZAF which has bought aircrafts. It will decide on the uses of the aircrafts.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: The only source of funding for the Government is the Treasury.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to ask Her Honour the Vice-President whether she is aware of the statement that was made by the Permanent Secretary (PS) in the Ministry of Defence pertaining to this matter. The PS did agree that the Government has bought a presidential jet that will be used through the Zambia Air Force (ZAF).

 

Interruption

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes, she should be aware because there was an official statement.

 

Hon. Government Members interjected.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on the right! He is entitled to ask a question. He is asking if Her Honour the Vice-President is aware of something. You may continue, Hon. Mwiimbu.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, I am saying the Ministry of Defence issued a statement to the public on this matter.

 

Hon. Government Member: For very important people (VIP).

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the issue I am raising is whether Her Honour the Vice President is aware of the particular explanation from the PS in the Ministry of Defence over the issue. I am also asking if she is aware that apart from this particular purchase, the Government of the Republic of Zambia has bought a gulfstream for the President. Apart from what they were talking about, there is another presidential jet, a gulfstream, ...

 

Mr Nkombo: That is expensive.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: ... which is a very expensive jet, whose cost, after computing, comes to about US$400 million including the expenses for maintenance.

 

Mr Nkombo: Corruption.

 

Hon. Government Members interjected.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, is it prudent for the Government to purchase two presidential jets when the country is undergoing severe financial stress?

 

Mr Bulaya: (while looking at Ms Subulwa) Have you ever gone through labour pains? You have never been to labour.

 

The Vice-President: That is an insult, if it is directed at the Vice-President.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: May Her Honour the Vice-President resume her seat. Madam Clerk, am I able to have that statement that has just been made by an hon. Member on my extreme left? Could I have that extracted and brought to me.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, in the statement, I said that ZAF has a responsibility of transporting VIPs. Even now, we hire ZAF to take the President or the Vice-President to certain areas of the country. Secondly, ZAF planes are used for many purposes. Apart from being used to transport VIPs, they are also hired by the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) to transport voting materials to hard-to-reach areas. ZAF recently brought the bodies of eleven Zambians who died in South Africa. It, therefore, has many functions. The types of aircrafts being bought are dependent on the way they are going to be used. If it is an airplane to fly the Head of State today, it is still the same one which will be used to fly a Head of State twenty years from now because the incumbent will not still be in office.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: So, in essence, the talk about how much money has been used to procure these aircrafts is based on hearsay. There is no one aircraft that can be bought at US$400 million. It is not possible. This is the hearsay on social media which we want to use in this House. This is unacceptable. We should be factual when we come to this House with information.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

I am going to take questions from the hon. Member for Chama South Parliamentary Constituency, hon. Member for Mufulira Parliamentary Constituency and hon. Member for Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency. We have to make progress.

 

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Madam Speaker, looking at our country, compared to other countries, our Defence Forces, including the police have no helicopters. If you look at the nature of crime which is developing as the country develops, you will realise that there is a need for our Defence Forces, including the police, to have top of the range helicopters and planes. When constructing roads, the Defence Force and Zambia Airforce do not use caterpillars or bulldozers. Is Her Honour the Vice-President in a position to clarify to our colleagues who are trying to argue that there is no need for defence expenditure? How important is defence expenditure, particularly, the purchase of planes?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Her Honour the Vice-President did that at length.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition, Mr Mwiimbu, made reference to a statement which was given by the Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Defence, admitting that a presidential jet had been bought. I know that one other hon. Minister made such an admission, but I will not say the name. In an environment where the economy of the country is under stress, where we cannot hire teachers because there is no money and cannot buy chalk because there is no money, yet the President already has a jet. Is Her Honour the Vice-President convinced that the purchase of a second jet is in the interest of the Zambian people?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I appreciate the sentiments being expressed by the hon. Member, but he should also understand that this decision was made in 2015. We cannot just walk into a shop and buy an aeroplane off the counter. It has to be made. It takes time to go through the whole process of making a plane. However, what I said was that I am aware of what the Permanent Secretary at the Ministry of Defence said. I am also aware of the fact that a decision was reached in 2015 to purchase aircrafts for the Zambia Airforce because what they have at the moment is not really up to the standard. Concerning the issue as to why the Government should do this at this time is neither here nor there because this decision was reached many years ago.

 

Madam Speaker, we have already told the House that the Zambia Airforce is purchasing the aircrafts. Some of these aircrafts will be used by VIPs. It is not a specific purchase for the President or for presidential flights. I have already explained how these airplanes will be used. Anybody can even hire the aircrafts. This is what is happening at the moment.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

LUANGWA RIVER HIPPOPOTAMUS CULLING 

 

73. Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i) asked the Minister of Tourism and Art:

 

1. which company has been awarded the contract to cull hippos in the Luangwa River in 2018;
2. whether the culling will impact the tourism industry in the country;

 

1. if so, what the impact is;

 

1. whether the Government has any plans to cancel the contract in order to preserve the tourism industry; and

 

1. whether the Government has culled hippos in the past.

 

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Mr C. Banda): Madam Speaker, the background is that culling is an essential part of wildlife conservation. In the case of hippopotamus culling, it maintains the hippopotamus population within the culling capacity by doing so, reduce the impact on habitats. The culling of hippopotamus will also see the reduction in the annual outbreaks of anthrax in the Luangwa River, thereby maintaining a healthy population of livestock. This, in turn, will lessen the death of animals caused by diseases.

 

Madam Speaker, in 2015, the defunct Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) now the Department of National Parks and Wildlife, entered into a contract with Mabwe Adventures Limited to cull hippopotamus along the Luangwa River. However, the contract was suspended in 2016 by the Ministry of Tourism and Art arising from complaints from stakeholders who include two operators and civil society organisations from both within and outside Zambia.

 

Madam Speaker, at the suspension of the contract, Mabwe Adventures Limited threatened to sue the Government for the breach of contract. The ministry sought a legal opinion from the Attorney-General who guided that the ministry should execute the contract to avoid the Government losing revenue in litigation costs. Despite the ministry being willing to continue with the contract, the pressure from print and social media mounted which resulted in the hesitation by the ministry to execute the contract in line with the Attorney-General’s guidance. In view of this, the ministry sought further guidance from Cabinet. Cabinet at its sitting of Monday, 15 October, 2018, deliberated the matter and resolved to uphold the contract with Mabwe Adventures Limited in line with the guidance of the Attorney-General.

 

Madam Speaker, we do not anticipate that the culling of hippopotamus will have a negative impact on the tourism industry in Zambia in that it is just an isolated activity in the midst of a wide variety of tourism attractions that Zambia has so far.

 

Madam Speaker, the impact this will bring is that we will avoid spreading diseases to other animals in South Luangwa. The habitat will be preserved.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government may cancel the contract based on the following grounds:

 

1. if the company contracted breaches the conditions stated in the contract; and

 

1. if the contractor commits an offence under the Zambia Wildlife Act, 2015.

 

Madam Speaker, hippopotamus culling in Luangwa Valley is not exceptional to the current Government as this activity has been done before. From 1993-1997, the Government successfully executed a hippopotamus culling contract under the Luangwa Integrated Resource Development Programme. In addition, from 1995-2010, the Government successfully executed a contract for culling of hippopotamus under L and L Properties Limited. Further, in 2011, the Government executed a contract for hippopotamus culling with L and L Safaris Limited which was later terminated following the failure of the said company to comply with its obligations under the agreement.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Speaker, is culling the only option in Zambia? I ask because Zambia has many other water bodies where these hippopotamus could be taken if the Government’s fear is that the Luangwa River dries up most times.

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Speaker, that is a very constructive question, but I wish to advise that transporting hippopotamus to other rivers would be extremely expensive. If there are any private individuals who are interested in moving hippopotamus to other areas, they are very welcome to help us reduce the population of hippopotamus in South Luangwa. However, the only option that we have at the moment is culling.

 

Madam Speaker, culling has its own advantages, as I have already mentioned. The local community is also going to benefit through that culling. There is meat which will be distributed to the local communities. After all, time and again, people request to hunt the hippopotamus for meat. We will solve a lot of problems if we successfully carryout culling according to the agreement. However, those that have the capacity to transport the hippopotamus and water bodies where to take them are welcome to approach us as they will be helping us to solve that problem.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: We want buffalo.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam Speaker, my assumption about the challenges to translocate hippopotamus, as the hon. Minister put it, may lie in their bulky nature. Last year, President Lungu gave a donation of buffalos to the eSwatini. That is a fact. However, these buffalos were quarantined in eSwatini because they had foot and mouth disease (FMD).

 

Madam Speaker, hippopotamus are small when they are born like this lion (pointing at the lion in the Chamber). Why is the Government not considering translocating baby hippopotamus to other water bodies which will reduce the cost as opposed to killing them for the purpose of some people having meat? As he says, it is the only option he has, but there are countries that do not have hippopotamus. When he compares the cost of eating the hippopotamus and exporting the hippos to areas where there are none, where does the hon. Minister see the advantage?

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Member for his very good suggestion, but I have to remind him, and everybody else, that the issue is not about baby hippopotamus. The South Luangwa River which we are talking about has more than 13,000 grown hippopotamus, which are causing a danger to the ecosystem. The hon. Member was talking about buffalos, but there were only three. We are now talking of about 13,000 hippopotamus against the 5,000 which are supposed to be in that area, which means there is over population. If people are interested in airlifting these hippopotamus to other areas where there are no hippopotamus, they are welcome to do that. We will give them the hippopotamus.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, one of the major reasons that the hon. Minister has given regarding this exercise is that they want to stop the spread of anthrax. We know that there many animals which are potential carriers of anthrax. Was this exercise preceded by a comprehensive scientific study? If it was, who did it to ascertain that it was only the hippopotamus which were the culprits and not the buffalos or any other animals in that area?

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Speaker, the Luangwa River is very shallow. After the rainy season, we usually do not have enough water for these hippopotamus to submerge themselves. Unfortunately, what happens thereafter is that they die on their own in large numbers. However, I think it would be better to make the best out of this situation by finding a system which will benefit the economy and the local community. When they die on their own, through diseases such as anthrax, that meat cannot even be distributed. The carcass becomes a health hazard to the area where the animals die.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Dr Kopulande (Chembe): Madam Speaker, when everything is considered, what were the advantages of giving a private contract as opposed to enlisting either the Zambia National Service or the Zambia Army to crop the hippopotamus and distribute the meat to the citizens?

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Speaker, this job requires skill. Not everybody has the skill to cull. There is a way you cull hippopotamus. It is not just about the military going to shoot wantonly at the animals. The culling requires skill and competence with regard to the selection process.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, of late, the Ministry of Tourism and Arts has been rejecting requests from traditional authorities to hunt hippopotamus to enable them to feed the people at ceremonies. They have, instead, been requesting them to pay. What made the Government stop providing this facility which was being provided by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) to these traditional ceremonies if the hippos are over populated? Further, why are they not taking into account the proposal that has been made by the hon. Member for Chembe, bearing in mind that there are game rangers within the ministry, who are experts, to cull these hippopotamus?

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Speaker, firstly, we have not denied anyone the opportunity to hunt. The only problem most of our people have is the failure to pay the fee which we have put on hunting rights. I sign the permits. I have not rejected any permit that has come before me. I sign them and tell people that there is a cost to it. When they come back to complain about the cost, I tell them that I have no power to remove the fees. So, those that want to hunt for their traditional ceremonies can still do so except that there is a cost which they have to bear.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Madam Speaker, I know that translocating animals is, no doubt, very expensive, but I want the hon. Minister to relax. The Government is emphasising mining, agriculture and tourism. The hon. Minister knows that in the Northern Circuit, for example, we have literally eaten all the animals. This is why his cousin here, this morning, was appreciating that fifty-four years after Independence, he has received thirty-one –

 

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbulakulima: As much as I appreciate the expense, why can we not take this as a national assignment whereby we can relocate some of these animals to the Northern Circuit, especially in the Luapula River which has none to promote tourism?

 

Mr Ng’onga: And Lake Mweru Wantipa.

 

Mr Mbulakulima: Why do we not take advantage of this? I want the hon. Minister to be very sympathetic. I do not want to go to him twenty years from now to ask for twenty hippopotamus. He should do it now.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Speaker, I am very pleased that the hon. Member asked this question. The point that I have to make very clearly here is that the way hippopotamus are translocated is not the same as buffalos because they can only be translocated through water. Channels have to be created so that the animals move through water to wherever they are required to go. This is what would make the process extremely expensive. Hippos cannot be airlifted because they can die on the way. It is only through water that they can be translocated.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts for the comprehensive answer that he has given. For the sake of clarity, how long will this very important culling exercise take in order for us to get the desirable numbers and maintain the eco-system along the Luangwa Valley and River?

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Speaker, this exercise will take us five years at the rate of 400 hippopotamus per year.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

DISPLACED PEOPLE IN MPONGWE AND MASAITI CONSTITUENCIES

 

74. Mr Bulaya (Mpongwe) to ask the Vice-President:

 

(a)        how many households were displaced in Mpongwe and Masaiti Parliamentary Constituencies in order to pave way for the construction of the Kafulafuta Dam;

 

(b)        whether the Government has any plans to allocate land for farming in the 2018/2019 farming season to the people who were displaced; and

 

(c)        if there are no such plans, why.

 

The Minister in the Office of the Vice-President (Ms Chalikosa): Madam Speaker, 268 households were displaced from Mpongwe Parliamentary Constituency and Masaiti Parliamentary Constituency in order to pave way for the construction of the Kafulafuta Dam.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has no plans to allocate land for farming in the 2018/2019 Farming Season to the people who were displaced. This is because the Government compensated all those that were displaced in monetary terms in addition to constructing houses for them. The compensation ranged from K15,000 to K500,000 for the 268 families that were displaced depending on the properties they owned. In addition, three main farmers were compensated between K1 million and K1.5 million.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Bulaya: Madam Speaker, the people who were displaced do not have any other source of income. Their livelihood is farming. If the farmers do not plant their crops considering the fact that the planting season is now almost around the corner, they will become destitute and will not add value to the economic development of this country. They will be moving around to beg for food. Will the Government plan to supply relief food to them?

 

Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, for the people who are affected to be given any food, the District Disaster Mitigation Committee (DDMC) would have to sit and assess the hunger situation and provide a report to the province which then provides the report to the headquarters. So, this can be considered. However, all the people who were displaced were compensated. For instance, in St. Theresa, four houses were constructed. The Zambia Association of People with Disabilities (ZAPD) had forty-four households constructed. In the villages, 220 houses were constructed and handed over to the affected households. The Ventilated Improved Pit (VIP) toilets with a bathroom were constructed for each household except at St Theresa where houses have flushable toilets. All households were provided with water through the use of hand pumps. The traditional leadership is also ready to provide land to the displaced people, but they opted for compensation in money form. The total amount was about K24 million.

 

So, those who are interested in farming are at liberty to apply for land either through the Office of the Vice-President Resettlement Schemes or engage the traditional leadership.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Bulaya: Madam Speaker, the people who have been displaced have children who go to school and because they are human, they fall sick. They will not contribute to the social economic development of this country when they fall sick. Has the Office of the Vice-President put money aside to construct a school and a clinic in the area where they have been resettled?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The question has to do with how many households were displaced and whether the Government has plans to allocate land. Now you are bringing in one about schools.

 

Her Honour the Vice-President, do you have an answer to that question?

 

Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, it is the hon. Member’s job to lobby for a school. I am sure that if he puts in a request to the Government, it may be considered. Otherwise, we cannot underestimate the importance of the Kafulafuta Dam which will be a project under the Kafubu Water and Sewerage Company that is overwhelmed by the growing population which it services which includes the people in Mpongwe, Masaiti, Luanshya and Ndola.

 

   Madam Speaker, I think the importance of the project itself outweighs any negative consequences that have come up. That is to not to say that the Government is averse to the challenges that the people who are disabled are going through. There is room for engagement in whatever development may be proposed going forward.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, some households were compensated with K15,000. If I got the hon. Minister clearly, she said the families received between K15,000 to K500,000. She also said that three farmers got about K1 million. Will those getting the lowest amounts be supported further? Does the hon. Minister see a future for them?

 

Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, the Government has the obligation to look after its people. For the sake of clarity, out of the 268 total households affected, only fifty-seven of them were farmers who opted for land and were compensated with 12 ha. I am not really sure who the hon. Member is referring to that needs help. Like I said earlier, the Government has, for instance, the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare, Ministry of Gender, and Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development which all have programmes to help people if they are approached. So, my humble request to the hon. Member of Parliament is for him to engage the Government so that whatever the pressing issue is can be addressed through the existing ministries and programmes that are available.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa): Madam Speaker, I believe the resettlement policy is such that when a group of people are resettled for a particular developmental purpose or whatever, there is a requirement that social services such as health and education facilities are a part of the provisions. Is the Office of the Vice-President going to ensure that this policy is adhered to?

 

Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, yes, especially if the people on your left support the Budget.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Chalikosa: The ministry under the Office of the Vice-President will definitely oblige.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

_______

 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

ESTIMATES OF REVENUE AND EXPENDITURE (INCLUDING CAPITAL AND CONSTITTIONAL AND STATUTORY EXPENDITURE) FOR THE YEAR 1^ST JANUARY, 2019 TO 31^ST DECEMBER, 2019

 

VOTE 01 – (Office of the President State House –K68,877,221).

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to present the 2019 Estimates of Recurrent Expenditure for Head 01/01 – Office of the President – State House.

 

Mr Chairperson, State House is a key Government institution which is also the seat of the Presidency of the Republic of Zambia. As the apex institution of the Government, State House plays a critical overarching and support role to the Presidency in the provision of national guidance and overall policy direction of the country.

 

Sir, given this mandate, the policy objective and role of State House has been developed in line with the mission statement outlined as follows:

 

“To deliver inspirational and visionary leadership to the nation and promote inclusive           governance in order to achieve a better life for all Zambians.”

 

Mr Chairperson, in support of the mission and to give State House specific focus and direction for its operations, the institution’s goal statement reads as follows:

 

“To achieve effective and efficient advisory and support services for enhanced execution    of executive functions by His Excellency the President.”

 

Mr Chairperson, State House encountered various operational challenges during the course of the year 2018. However, the institution has remained focused on achieving its objectives outlined in the strategic plan. It should be noted that the following programmes were undertaken:

 

         (a)        reviewing the placement of staff;

 

         (b)        training of staff in long and short-term programmes;

 

(c)        in line with the Seventh National Development Plan(7NDP) for  2017 to 2021, State House entered into smart partnerships and alliances that provided for synergies with other Government departments, firstly, as a prudent cost saving measure and secondly, as a means of ensuring the upgrade of the State House premises.

 

The works covered include:

 

         (i)         maintenance of State House buildings including external and internal painting;

 

         (ii)        refurbishment of State Lodge, Nkwazi and new guest house;

 

         (iii)       identification and numbering of obsolete plants and equipment;

 

         (iv)       landscaping;

 

         (v)        relocation of livestock to the State Lodge Farm;

 

(vi)       tranquilising and relocation of wildlife to game parks and to the Department of National Parks and Wildlife;

 

(vii)      maintenance of State House Golf Course;

 

(viii)      marking roads and parking slots;

 

(ix)       partial upgrade of State House staff establishment;

 

(x)        filling of vacant positions;

 

(xi)       upgrading of water reticulation system;

 

(xii)      successful hosting of national events; and

 

(xiii)      hosting of foreign diplomats and Heads of State.

 

Suffice to note that significant progress has been made towards the successful implementation of the institution’s planned programmes and activities for the current fiscal year.

 

Mr Chairperson, State House functions are performed by three key departments whose deliverables contribute to the overall attainment of the overall strategic vision of the institution.

 

Mr Chairperson, these departments are:

 

1. Presidential Secretariat;

 

1. Presidential Advisory Department; and

 

1. Human Resource and Administration.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Presidential Secretariat Department is responsible for managing the presidential programmes and diary in liaison with the relevant stakeholders. The department also handles private and personal matters of His Excellency the President and the First Family. In addition, it is charged with the responsibility of managing all incoming correspondence addressed to the President. It further manages the honours and awards ceremonies as well as co-ordinates protocol functions.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Presidential Secretariat Department will, in 2019, continue to provide effective secretarial services to the Presidency. The department will strive to enhance professionalism in managing the presidential diary. In addition, the department will enhance efficiency in responding to in-coming correspondence to reduce the circle and provide feedback within the acceptable time frame. It will continue to engage key Government institutions to enhance the administration of honours and awards during the commemoration of Independence Day and Africa Freedom Day.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Presidential Advisory Department comprises five distinct areas of specialisation with a critical role of providing professional and technical backstopping to His Excellency the President. The specialised areas under the Presidential Advisory Department include:

 

1. economic;

 

1. press and public relations;

 

1. policy and project implementation and monitoring;

 

1. legal; and

 

1. political sections.

 

Mr Chairperson, in 2019, the Presidential Advisory Department, through the economic section, in liaison with key Government institutions, will continue to provide guidance to the President on the development and implementation of the nation’s economic policies to stimulate sustainable economic growth. In addition, the department will, through the Press and Public Relations Section, continue to inform the nation of various matters of national importance. The department will provide factual information to clarify false and negative information to enhance national unity and patriotism. It will further continue to promote ethical media practices by enhancing a positive relationship with the various media houses.

 

Mr Chairperson, the department will further continue to monitor the implementation of key Government projects and policies to provide regular updates to His Excellency the President on progress on the ongoing projects through the Policy, and Project Implementation and Monitoring Section. The department will, through the Legal Section, continue to provide counsel to the President on legal matters to ensure that constitutional and other legal obligations of the Presidency are met and that political powers are exercised within the ambit of the law. It will continue to provide guidance and updates to the President on national and global political events and trends through the Political Section.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Human Resource and Administration Department is charged with the role of efficient and effective management of staff, provision of logistical and material support services in order to facilitate the smooth operations of the institution. In addition, the department is responsible for the maintenance of the State House surroundings and management of State lodges, and the State Lodge Farm. In 2019, the Human Resource and Administration Department will continue to strategically manage human and financial resources, and provide administrative and logistical support services in order to improve the individual, organisational and operational efficiency of State House taking into account the austerity measures without compromising the quality of service provision. The Human Resource and Administration Department will, in 2019, continue to train staff in short skills building programmes for continuous professional development to enhance service delivery befitting the status of the institution.

 

Mr Chairperson, the budget estimates before this august House will enable State House to upgrade and facilitate the efficient operations of its departments, attend to personnel emoluments, dismantle arrears, support maintenance services of State House grounds and infrastructure, transport management and general operations. Let me also mention that being part and parcel of the global village, State House continues to aspire to provide quality services in line with the regional and international community, and in pursuance of excellence as an extension of the Presidency.

 

 Mr Chairperson, it is envisaged that the 2019 Estimates of Expenditure for State House which are aligned to the tenets of the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP), and the Vision 2030, will enhance good governance and contribute positively to economic growth and national development which is a positive step towards the house’s vision which reads “…. a better Zambia for all”. In this regard, I wish to appeal to the hon. Members to support the Estimates of Expenditure for State House as presented.

 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the Vote for State House.

 

First and foremost, I agree with Her Honour the Vice-President that State House is the most important institution in this country and that it supervises the other wings of the Government. Anchoring on that statement, I would like to begin my debate by stating that the PF Government and the leadership in this country has failed us.

 

Mr Chairperson, Zambia has always been a united country from the time of Independence to date, and we have always believed in the motto, “One Zambia, One Nation”. I have no doubt in my mind and I fear no contradiction that whenever Zambians met outside the country, they perceived themselves as Zambians. They never considered the tribe and where somebody came from. This has been happening even locally. Alas, from the time the Patriotic Front (PF) Government ascended into office, the motto of one Zambia, one nation, has disintegrated.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I will be able to demonstrate why I am stating so. We, on your left, represent people from our constituencies who raise issues pertaining to how they are being governed and treated where they are working or applying for any job in the Government. What has happened is that instead of uniting the country, the PF has the propensity to deliberately craft a policy of ensuring that certain tribes in this country are marginalised.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mulenga: Which ones?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, we can investigate the matter collectively if those in Government want. If you go to all the parastatals now, you will find that people from certain tribes in this country are not there …

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Including State House.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: … including in Government institutions. They have deliberately been pruned out of the system. The retirements in national interest in this country have been unprecedented of late. Most of those who have been laid off in national interest hail from certain regions of this country. This is very unfortunate.

 

Mr Chairperson, it is the responsibility of the Government to ensure that there is unity in this country. The prosperity of this country, which we are yearning and aspiring for, will not be achieved without unity. It is the responsibility of the Head of State to ensure that every Zambian in this country irrespective of race, tribe or origin is protected, but that is not being done.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: In this regard, I am appealing to the Government and the President in particular to rise above board to ensure that there is no discrimination in this country. That is what we are all yearning for. There is a belief, and justifiably so, that it is now one Zambia one side.

 

Mr Sichone: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: When we are debating on the Floor of this House, other hon. Members of the House are saying that where they come from it is heaven on earth because there is so much development. Others on my side here are lamenting that there is nothing that is happening in their constituencies.

 

Ms Chalikosa: They are ignoring what we are doing.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, it is the responsibility of the President of Zambia to ensure that there is equity in the distribution of public resources in this country. He has to ensure that there is fairness. We cannot allow the continuation of the current trend.

 

Sir, Article 259 (1) of the Constitution of Zambia provides the following:

 

“Where a person is empowered to make a nomination or an appointment to a public office, that person shall ensure:

 

1. that the person being nominated or appointed has the requisite qualification to discharge the functions of the office, as prescribed or specified in public office circulars or establishment registers;

 

1. that fifty per cent of each gender is nominated or appointed from the total available positions, unless it is not practicable to do so.”

 

Mr Chairperson, I want to anchor my point on Article 259(2), which states that:

 

“A person empowered to make a nomination or appointment to a public office shall, where possible, ensure that the nomination or appointment reflects the regional diversity of the people of Zambia.”

 

Sir, I challenge any one of my colleagues on your right to tell me if they have complied with this particular provision of regional diversity in the ministries which they are heading and parastatals which are under these ministries. In most instances, you will find that from the chief executive to a sweeper, they are all from one tribe. Why should we be doing that? Why are we deliberately dividing the nation?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, just a minute. When you specify like that, it is very difficult for some hon. Members to agree with you. When you say in this particular company from the director up to the sweeper, it is one tribe, that may not be proved. So, I thought I should remind you not to take that path.

 

You may continue.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I am using my privilege under the Constitution to debate as I see things and the way the country has been divided.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I am being patriotic. If I was not being patriotic, I was not going to raise these issues. I am appealing to the colleagues on your right to take corrective measures. What is happening is not good. Most of the countries in Africa have gone into civil strife because of such attitudes.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: We should not allow such things to happen and that is the point I am making. We have a number of copies of letters of those who have been declared redundant in national interest. They hail from a certain region or belong to certain tribes. What we are saying is that such things should not be allowed to happen. The President must ensure that such things should not happen. The President swears to protect the Constitution of Zambia. Therefore, it is his responsibility –

 

Mr Ng’onga: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Ng’onga, take your seat. The good thing is that the hon. Member on the Floor has just started debating. So, if there is anything you feel you need to correct, just indicate to debate so that we move on.

 

The hon. Member for Monze Central may continue.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Long live Chair!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the protection.

 

Mr Chairperson, it is important that all of us rise above board. We must be able to protect everyone in this country irrespective of where they come from. Like my colleagues on the right, I am a leader. Every member of this country looks to us to ensure that their interests are protected. That is the point I am making.

 

Secondly, Mr Chairperson, I was talking about issues of development. As the presiding officer, you have heard how my colleagues on your left have been lamenting. They are lamenting that development is not reaching their areas. We are appealing that this discrimination should not continue if we are One Zambia, One Nation.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I know time is not with me. Nonetheless, I want to point out that we have been given statements on the Floor of this House by hon. Ministers that there is nothing that is happening at the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) to ensure that the Chinese are taking part in the management and shareholding of ZNBC. However, today, the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC) has issued a statement agreeing to the merger between ZNBC and TopStar Communication Company Limited. What does that mean? It means that the Chinese are going to have shares in ZNBC.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Member what you are debating falls under a different portfolio. You can bring that point when the allocation to that ministry will be debated. We are looking at State House. Therefore, I find it difficult to allow you to continue in that fashion. Let us debate what we are looking at.

 

Continue, hon. Member.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that the President is the supervisor of the hon. Ministers. All the hon. Ministers serve under the pleasure of the President. Whatever wrongs happen in a ministry, the buck stops with the President because he is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. He is the Head of State.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: That is the point. I am creating linkages here. He must ensure that his hon. Ministers do not mislead the nation. If there is an issue, they must be able to come back and say that they were wrong. We have documentation now showing that there is a merger that has been approved.

 

Mr Kampyongo: By who?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: By the CCPC.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Is the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission Cabinet?

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: The problem is that I am a lawyer. Somebody is not a lawyer.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, we meet in this House as hon. Members of Parliament. Anyone who is here met the qualification to be a Member of Parliament.

 

Continue, hon. Member.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, the point I am making is that whenever a merger in this country is supposed to take place, there is an authority that approves it.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Which is Cabinet.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I did not know that Cabinet has a role under the CCPP.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, ignore the hecklers and concentrate on your debate.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, they are just expressing ignorance, not heckling.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: No! Withdraw that statement, hon. Member. We need to make progress.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I have withdrawn it.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Please, continue.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, there were angry reactions from the right that members of the public were being misled by information that there was an arrangement to merge ZNBC with a Chinese company or that ZNBC was to be taken over by a Chinese company. However, this has happened. Let them deny it and tell the authority that approved this merger that they were misled.  That is what has happened. What I am advising is that the President must ensure that he provides the requisite leadership over his hon. Ministers so that proper things are done on behalf of the people of Zambia.

 

Mr Chairperson, finally, I would like to ask Her Honour the Vice-President to be very candid in ensuring that dialogue takes place between the various players in this country. We, as the United Party for National Development (UPND), have always been ready ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: ... from the time the Commonwealth came into the picture to date. We have been ready for dialogue.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: It is the PF members themselves – That is why late President Sata fired one Inspector-General of the Zambia Police Service.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: The late President Sata fired one Inspector-General of the Zambia Police Service because of not adhering to rules and procedure.

                                                                

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I am requesting that for the sake of this country, those who are being governed and peace in this country, dialogue must take place without conditions. That is what we are appealing for. The dialogue process should be led by the Church. They were in Church yesterday.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the policy statement that she has given on the State House Vote.

 

Sir, State House is the centre of everything in any country’s operation. I would like to take my leader’s submission as my own, especially when it comes to the subject of equal opportunities for citizens based on ethnic extraction.

 

Mr Chairperson, you will recall that two years ago, I moved a Private Members’ Motion to ask the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to refrain from victimising people who were perceived to be sympathisers of the Opposition and who came from a certain ethnic extraction. That particular Motion was defeated on the Floor of this House because of what I would call living in denial. I invite those of you who have eyes, especially those who may be watching television at this point in time and all the people sitting in this House, to look at the composition of the Cabinet here (Pointing at the hon. Government Frontbench).

 

Mr Kampyongo: And that side (pointing at the hon. Opposition Members).

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I would like to invite them to look at the composition of Government on this side of the House and tell me whether what my leader, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu said was far from the truth.

 

Hon. Government Members interjected.

 

Ms Siliya: That Frontbench (pointing at the hon. Opposition Members).

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, it is true that if you look, −

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members on my right!

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, seeing that my mother, Her Honour the Vice-President, comes from the minority group in this same group of people, ...

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: ... I want to emphasise that she should take a message to the President to indicate that the Presidency is the centre of attraction. It is the attraction of any country.

 

Sir, in a choir or an orchestra, as it is called, there are people who sing tenor, bass and soprano. All together, they create a symphony. That is how a country should operate. It is a constitutional requirement to have a balanced Cabinet. I put it to you, without fear of any contradiction or being misunderstood, that presidential appointments are currently based on the voting patterns. The President even instituted a commission of inquiry on the voting patterns. So, you tell me how you expect the people of the North-Western Province, who only have one representative in Cabinet, to vote in the coming election? Just tell me.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am just giving you facts as they are. How do you expect the people of the Western Province who only have one person in Cabinet to vote for them? How do you expect the people of the Central Province, who only have one representative in Cabinet to vote for them? As a matter of fact, this one representative is by default because even the representation that he has is on the Copperbelt.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Yes!

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, tell me how the President expects to get good votes from the Copperbelt, Lambaland to be specific, when his Cabinet only has one person who is Lamba by tribe. I am saying this without shame.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Member, ...

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Take your seat, hon. Member.

 

Mr Nkombo resumed his seat.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member on the Floor should avoid debating on tribal lines.

 

Interruptions

 

The Deputy Chairperson: We should also bear in mind that the Constitution is very clear on that. Hon. Ministers are selected from amongst elected hon. Members of Parliament. Thus, it is important that as you continue to debate, you move away from that direction so that we make progress and concentrate on debating the allocation to State House.

 

Hon. Government Member: He wants to be appointed Minister!

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, thank you for your guidance.

 

Mr Chairperson, I am not the author of this Constitution. I invite all those who care to read to read with me to Article 259 of the Constitution that was approved here. For those of you who may want, there is an extra copy to read. The framers of the Constitution addressed this matter about ethnic extraction and we should not shy away from it.

 

Mr Chairperson, while respecting your guidance, we must not shy away from talking about things that may appear to be taboo. God was not foolish when he made people belong to certain tribes. I just gave you an example of a choir or an orchestra –

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, I have ruled over that. We will not make progress. Just move forward and debate State House.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, the President is responsible for the nomination of Judges in the Judiciary, which is the second wing of Government. Go and see the Bench. We saw them here when they came.

 

Hon. UPND Member interjected.

 

Mr Nkombo: There is also a worry for me. The President knows that the Judiciary at High Court and Supreme Court levels have an incomplete establishment. There is a need to appoint more Judges for the justice delivery system to work properly. We have a lot of learned lawyers who qualify to go to the Bench.

 

Sir, I want Her Honour the Vice-President to send this particular message from me to the Head of State. Let us fill the void so that the Judiciary system can function well. I will not shy away from calling on him to follow the particular constitutional provision which we are being refrained from referring to in this House. He needs to balance out the act in terms of ethnic extraction.

 

Mr Chairperson, the Auditor-General’s Office has been yawning. Ever since my brother and friend Ronny Mwambwa left – I do not know under what circumstances he left, but we know for a fact that he was not confirmed after serving in the Office of the Auditor-General for a period exceeding one year going onto two.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member –

 

Mr Nkombo: It is public information that –

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member –

 

Mr Nkombo: Do not listen to those people who are –

 

The Deputy Chairperson: I am not listening to them. Take a seat, hon. Member.

 

Mr Nkombo resumed his seat.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Everyone who sits here follows and understands the rules of this House. The truth of the matter is we do not debate people who cannot come here to defend themselves. Therefore that –

 

Hon. Government Member: It is a rule of the House.

 

The Deputy Chairperson: It is part of the rules of this House.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, your guidance is appreciated. There was an Auditor-General –

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, I am still talking.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kampyongo: Aah! Order!

 

The Deputy Chairperson: There are rules in this House which we follow. Hon. Member, continue.

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, there is a man who was occupying the Office of the Auditor-General in this country. He comes from the Western Province ethnic extraction.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

 

Hon. Government Members: Tribalist!

 

Mr Nkombo: This individual served the Office of the Auditor-General for more than two years. The Constitution of this Republic of Zambia is very clear that when you operate in an office without official confirmation, beyond a certain period, you are deemed to have been confirmed. The lack of confirmation of this particular individual who held the office that has been exposing the scandals that are being done by the PF, in terms of misuse of funds and misapplication of Government money, made him extremely frustrated to the point of leaving because he comes from a certain ethnic extraction. How then –

 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

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HOUSE RESUMED

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

(Progress reported)

 

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The House adjourned at 1257 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday 23^rd October, 2018.

 

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