Friday, 12th October, 2018

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Friday, 12th October, 2018

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

 

Madam, on Tuesday, 16th October, 2018, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply on the 2019 Budget.

 

Madam Speaker, on Wednesday, 17th October, 2018, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will conclude the debate on the Motion of Supply and resolve into Committee of Supply to consider Head 01 – Office of the President – State House.

 

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 19th October, 2018, the Business of the House will commence with Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer. Thereafter, the House will deal with presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will, then, resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following heads of expenditure:

 

Head 02 – Office of the Vice-President;

 

Head 19 – Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit; and

 

Head 03 – National Assembly.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

_______

 

HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

 

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Madam Speaker, the Village Television Programme, which the Government has embarked on, is a good initiative that will afford people in the rural areas access to information. However, there is an issue around that. Where are these village television sets being distributed?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Would Her Honour the Vice-President like the question to be repeated?

 

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Speaker, I would like a clarification on whether the question is to do with the distribution of the village televisions.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Lupososhi, could you restate your question.

 

Mr Bwalya: Madam Speaker, yes, the question is to do with the distribution. Where and how are the village television sets being distributed?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the distribution of village television sets is a programme that will transform the rural areas of this country because village televisions are providing access to information. Individual homes who cannot afford to own television sets or decoders can view television from a central place. That means that the village television sets will enable rural communities to access information that will help them make informed decisions. For a long time now, our people in the villages have, sometimes, been cheated on matters that affect their development by politicians going round the constituencies. Therefore, the distribution of village television sets will help our rural communities a great deal. Each constituency will receive, at least, three television sets under the Village Television Programme.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President will avoid using the word “cheating” in her subsequent answers to questions.

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbezhi Road passes through Mangango Parliamentary Constituency. Therefore, the people of Mangango Constituency would like to know whether the road will be attended to now that there is an upcoming by-election or will the Patriotic Front (PF) ignore the road, but still ask them people to vote for it?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, let the people of Mangango be told if the road will be worked on.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the road referred to has been discussed several times. His Excellency the President made a pronouncement at the beginning of this year that the road would be worked on. Indeed, the Zambia National Service (ZNS) has been mobilised to upgrade the road.

 

Laughter

 

The Vice-President: You may laugh but, if you are interested in improving the road infrastructure in the rural areas, this Government is geared to do that.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Livune interjected.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I also want to tender an apology for the word ‘cheated’ that I used in the House.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, sometime last week, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs informed this House that China would give Zambia an interest free loan of up to US$30 million to build a new conference centre. He also stated that technocrats have since recommended that the Mulungushi International Conference Centre be demolished so that the new structure is put up in its place. Is it the Government’s position to demolish the Mulungushi International Conference Centre so that the new structure is put up there or will the Government find a vacant area where the new structure will be located?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, it was announced that a new conference centre would be constructed where the Mulungushi International Conference Centre is located, but the details have not been given yet. The Government is still discussing whether to go ahead with the construction at Mulungushi site or construct the new centre on another piece of land elsewhere.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr K. Tembo (Sinda): Madam Speaker, ...

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

 

Allow him to ask the question.

 

Mr K. Tembo: ... is Her Honour the Vice-President able to confirm how many provinces have already received farming inputs for 2018/2019 as of today?

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this Government is keen to see that the farming community receives farming inputs on time. Indeed, this year, farming inputs have been distributed to some districts. I do not have a figure of how many districts, but I know that a number of them, especially those that have put up deposits under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), have received farming inputs. The hon. Minister of Agriculture will apprise the House on the status of farming inputs in all the districts as soon as he collects all the necessary information from the camp officers.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam Speaker, in recent times, there has been a lot of talk and an hon. Minister and civil servants were dismissed. This was occasioned by what is widely known as theft of public money by the civil servants under Her Honour the Vice-President’s administration in the case of the Ministry of General Education, the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare. Recently, we were told that the Department for International Development (DfID) had been refunded the money that somehow conspicuously and mysteriously found itself in an account at the Zambia National Commercial Bank after having been stolen. The Chair, ten days ago –

 

Hon. Government Member: Question!

 

Mr Nkombo: Just keep quiet you greenhorn.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member –

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the Chair directed Her Honour the Vice-President to come to this House to give us a specific statement on the issue of the Social Cash Transfer Scheme. We know that justice delayed is justice denied and that people have lost jobs. When will Her Honour the Vice-President come to this House to update the country on the stolen money which was mysteriously found and is purported to have been paid back to DfID? When will she come to give us an update so that we can settle this matter once and for all?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President will not answer concerning the ministerial statement and the directive by the Chair. She will, however, give a brief response concerning the money that was purportedly found in an account in one of the banks. This is simply that the issue of when Her Honour will deliver the statement is between her office and the Office of the Hon. Mr Speaker.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, there is no way money can be stolen and found in the bank the following day. It just so happened that the person who raised the alarm did not realise that the money, which was misappropriated or misplaced, −

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. Government: The money was in the Bank!

 

The Vice-President: The money that was mismanaged was not the money from the DFID. If hon. Members of Parliament wish to know, they can approach the bank where the money was deposited and obtain information on when it was deposited in that account.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, speculation does not help the situation. The case is still under investigation. When the final results are known, hon. Members will know what actually transpired.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Madam Speaker, according to the Chibombo District Farmers Association, when the farmers where under the Electronic (e)-Voucher system they were asked to pay K100 per farmer so that their crops would be insured. The farmers have been informed that Professional Life Insurance has released money because of what happened to the farmers in the last season. Is her office aware of this and will the farmers’ insurance claims be paid out because they did not have good yields in the last season?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, some questions are so micro that the hon. Member of Parliament can find out from the insurance company as well as from the Ministry of Agriculture what has taken place regarding the insurance cover for farmers in Chibombo District rather than come to this House to ask that question. I do not think I am in a position to answer that question adequately. I suggest that the hon. Member files a Question.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Madam Speaker, Manyinga has seen most of its forests, especially of Mukwa and other trees species, being harvested using Government licences. Those who have been harvesting the timber have destroyed roads and bridges. In the light of inclusive development, what measures has the Government put in place in order to share this wealth with the affected people of Manyinga Constituency in Manyinga District?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this country is endowed with various species of trees. There is a lot of timber not only in Manyinga, but also in other areas like Mpika, Kaoma, Lukulu and some parts of Muchinga. Whatever the Government realises from the forestry resources is shared equally throughout the country through allocations by the Ministry of Finance.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, there are concerns that there is no institution in Ndola that has been named after the late Former President, Dr Frederick Titus Jacob Chiluba, who lived and worked there for a very long time. Is the Government considering naming the new airport in Ndola after the late former President?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, the late Dr Chiluba was the President of this country and we have taken note of the request. Although we may not necessarily name the new airport after him, perhaps, we may name other equally important monuments after him.

 

Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Madam Speaker, the Zambia Police Thrift Society deducts money from officers through the payroll system with a view to helping them with the payment of school fees and other financially related problems when they arise. However, whenever officers try to claim their money, they are always told that there is none. Some officers have even died without claiming their monies. I would like to find out whether Her Honour the Vice-President is aware of this state of affairs. If she is, what is the Government, through the Ministry of Home Affairs, doing about it?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this question is like the one that was asked earlier about the insurance of agricultural products. It can be adequately handled by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. If the hon. Member is interested in knowing the nitty-gritties of the associations that are formed within the Zambia Police Service and how they are run, he can file in a Question.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Chiyalika (Lufubu): Madam Speaker, the Kabwe/Ngabwe/Kasempa Road is under the Link Zambia 8000 km Road Project. Considering the financial constraints on the Treasury, will this road ever be tarred?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Your Honour the Vice President, would you like the Question to be repeated?

 

The Vice-President: Yes, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lufubu, can you repeat the Question.

 

Mr Chiyalika: Madam Speaker, I said that the Kabwe/Ngabwe/Kasempa Road is under the Link Zambia 8000 km Road Project. However, considering the financial constraints on the Treasury, will this road ever be tarred?

 

Hon. UPND Members: No!

 

Laughter

 

The Vice President: Madam Speaker, this road will definitely be worked on when resources are made available. This is the answer I can give to the hon. Member for now.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Evg. Shabula (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, there are farmers and businessmen who have not sold their maize for this season in anticipation of getting a good price when the price goes up. The idea is to export the maize. So, I would like to find out whether the Government has banned the export of maize.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, currently, there are no exports of maize because the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is still on the market buying maize for the national strategic reserves. Thus, the maize marketing season has been extended to allow the FRA to access more maize for the reserves.

 

Madam Speaker, the price of maize will not be increased. The current budget is based on the price that was announced at the beginning of the buying season.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Madam Speaker, the independent power producers, which are Ndola Energy, Maamba and Lusemfwa, have Power Purchase Agreements with the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (Zesco). They have been producing power that Zesco has been consuming, yet it is failing to pay them. Ndola Energy is owed US$103 million and Lusemfwa is owed about US$34 million. In one case, the debt is from February, last year.

 

Madam Speaker, I would like to find out how the Government thinks private investors will come from abroad to invest here if they cannot be paid. What difficulties does Zesco have in meeting its obligations that it can get a service, but is not willing to pay for it?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (Zesco) has a schedule of payments to all its suppliers and I am sure that the companies that have been mentioned by the hon. Member are in discussions with Zesco on how it plans to honour its debt obligations. This is a matter between Zesco and the companies mentioned.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, austerity measures have been pronounced by the Government, yet we have seen the opposite. The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has not been released. Schools, especially where I come from, have not been rehabilitated, and not even simple iron sheet have been placed on the roofs of classrooms. Is it prudent for the Government to continue inducing by-elections at ward level by offering councillors money, employment and development opportunities?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, sometime in November, this year, there will be a by-election in Mangango Constituency. It has been caused by the death of an hon. Member of Parliament who died in a road traffic accident. That has nothing to do with inducing an election deliberately.

 

Madam Speaker, as regards councillors resigning to join the Patriotic Front (PF) in many wards in this country, we have said before that the does not buy councillors or induce by-elections  –

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Kampyongo: You are just losing.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, for the first time in the life of local authorities, councillors are receiving allowances of K3,000 per month which has never happened before. So, for a councillor to leave that lucrative space and go to an unknown destination by resigning, it means that he/she has come to realise that there is a need to move on and be part of development. He/she does not want to stay where he/she is. The councillors are looking to the future and saying that this United Party for national Development (UPND) will never take them anywhere …

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: … near power.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: The councillors have not seen the light at the end of the tunnel. As a result, they are making early exits before the big hand falls.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, most of our micro, small and medium-scale entrepreneurs are slowly being pushed out of business today simply because the Chinese have taken over the retail businesses. When will the Government come up with a policy which will stop the Chinese from operating retail shops so that they go into manufacturing since they come as investors?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the Zambian economy is liberalised.

 

Mr Muchima: Oh!

 

The Vice-President: When the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) came into power –

 

The hon. Member who says, “Oh!” was one of those ...

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kampyongo: Ba Muchima!

 

The Vice-President: … who opened up this country to businesses from anywhere in the world. During Dr Kaunda’s time, there were limitations on the way investors operated in the country but, when the doors were opened, every investor from anywhere in the world came here to open businesses or to invest in some form of industry. The Chinese who are in the retail business should not engage in certain types of retail to take away business from the Zambians. There are certain sections of retail business in which they can operate. This Government is looking into that matter.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, peace be with you and also with the United Party for National Development (UPND).

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, of late, there has been speculation that the United States of America (US) Dollar is gaining more value higher than the Zambian Kwacha because we do not have exports. I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President whether the Government is considering allowing exports for maize, …

 

Mr Mwiinga: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: … timber, …

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: … Mukula …

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: … and other export-earners like cotton. I also want to find out from her whether the Government has plans of allowing street vendors to start selling on the streets again so that there is a bit of liquidity to enable the economy to stabilise and, in turn, stabilise the exchange rate.

 

Madam Speaker, peace be with the UPND, again.

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President will answer only one question.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, this Government wants to grow the economy.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order in the House!

 

The Vice-President: In order to grow the economy, there is a need to improve our industrialisation base. There is a need to go into manufacturing of goods that can compete with other goods internationally so that we earn the much-needed dollar to enhance our service delivery in the country. We encourage Zambians to go into value addition so that we do not export timber in its raw form. That way, we will generate more income for our Treasury. As for maize, there are restrictions at the moment because we want to ensure that we have enough stocks for our strategic reserves. For timber, the hon. Minister of Finance announced in her Budget Speech that the ban has been lifted. Even then, we still urge Zambians to go into the business of timber, bearing in mind that the Government is emphasising on value addition at the moment.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata): I hope Her Honour the Vice-President will be called Her Honour after 2021.

 

Hon. Members: Question!

 

Mr Mwiinga: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President whether the police officers who led to the death of the University of Zambia (UNZA) student by throwing teargas canisters have been arrested. If not, why?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Did Her Honour the Vice-President get the question?

 

Would you like the question to be repeated?

 

The Vice-President: I would like the question to be repeated, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can the hon. Member repeat the question.

 

Mr Mwiinga: I am saying have the police officers who led to the death of the UNZA student by throwing …

 

Ms Kapata: Who led to the death?

 

Mr Mwiinga: … teargas canisters into her room been arrested? If not, why?

 

Ms Kapata: Ask HH, iwe!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Ah! Mukula, Mukula!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my left.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the case is still under investigations.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mubika (Shang’ombo): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President if the Government is considering taking back some of the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) equipment under the Zambia National Service (ZNS) to the provincial administration where it will be easier and cheaper to access. The equipment under the ZNS is very expensive to hire because it is charging like it is a private company.

 

_______

 

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

DELEGATION FROM THE PARLIAMENT OF KENYA

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of the following hon. Members of Parliament and staff from the Parliament of Kenya:

 

Hon. Ezekiel Machogu Ombaki, MP – Chairperson/Leader of the Delegation;

 

Hon. Elsie Muhanda, MP

 

Hon. Eng. Tthuddeus Kithua Nzambia, MP

 

Hon. Silas Tiren, MP

 

Hon. Elisha Odhiambo, MP

 

Hon. Catherine Wambilyanga, MP

 

Mr. Sydney Okumu Lugaga Bwire, Legal Counsel

 

Mr Douglas Katho, Clerk Assistant/Delegation Secretary

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: On behalf of the National Assembly, I would like to receive our distinguished guests and warmly welcome them in our midst.

 

I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!  

 

_______

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Back to the Business of the House. I hope Her Honour the Vice-President still remembers the question.

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the question was to do with the equipment that the Zambia National Service (ZNS) is currently using to upgrade rural roads in provinces. The equipment is under the Provincial Administration which leases it to the ZNS for that purpose. I do not know what else the hon. Member for Shang’ombo wants to know other than that we should revert to the old system of using the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). Currently, the Government has not decided to do that because the ZNS is adequately qualified to undertake the assignment of upgrading rural roads.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Chikote (Luampa): Madam Speaker, civil servants in Luampa District are afraid of working with the Office of the Member of Parliament. Whenever the Patriotic Front (PF) Government hears that we are interacting and sharing ideas on how to develop Luampa District, civil servants, especially those heading departments, are threatened and said to work with the United Party for National Development (UPND). They are being perceived to be cadres. For Luampa District to develop, all of us, including the hon. Member of Parliament, have to work together. In view of the attempt to make the hon. Member of Parliament fail –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Ask the question.

 

Mr Chikote: Madam Speaker, even the 50 per cent of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is now a scandal at Luampa District Council. Is it a PF policy to stop civil servants heading the departments in the district from working with the Member of Parliament?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, that is speculation …

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: … because the Government is encouraging hon. Members of Parliament to participate in developmental projects in their constituencies. I do not see how an hon. Member of Parliament can fail to interact with heads of department in a district unless he/she has personal differences with Government officials in the district. Otherwise, it is very important for hon. Members of Parliament to know what is going on. When they arrive in their constituencies, they should also report to the Office of the District Commissioner or the Provincial Minister.

 

Interruptions

 

The Vice-President: If hon. Members do not want to work with Government officials in their constituencies, they should not expect development in their constituencies and should not complain about the lack of development.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, of late, we have seen some unpatriotic Zambians collaborating with foreign entities and generating negative propaganda about Zambia which is tantamount to economic sabotage.

 

Interruptions

 

Dr Chanda: What advice does Her Honour the Vice-President have for those unpatriotic elements?

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, in some countries, economic saboteurs are dealt with very sternly. However, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is a very democratic Government and it allows freedom of speech, association and thought. If it did not, we would not have so many radio stations and social media would not operate in the country. However, the Government has not taken action against people who are tarnishing the name of this country, but they should be ready to face some consequences soon.

 

Mr Lubinda: Yes.

 

The Vice-President: Economic sabotage is a crime that should be taken very seriously because the negative portrayal of the country to the world is affecting the economy and causing instability of the kwacha. Our currency fluctuates so much simply because of the negative image being portrayed about the country, especially outside the country.

 

Madam Speaker, we need to be patriotic. We need to love our country. Being a patriot goes beyond political and ethnic affiliations …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: … because to be a patriot calls for one to love his/her country, care for its welfare and its people living therein. If Zambians would uphold these principles, this country would develop in a more peaceful and united manner than the case is at the moment.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Speaker, although were not surprised when the Government turned away a renowned professor by the name of Prof. Lumumba from Kenya, given the fact that it had recently turned away Mr Mmusi Maimane, Mr Tendai Biti and the exotic dancer, Zodwa, we are curious to learn why it turned away Prof. Lumumba. It was said that Prof. Lumumba was denied entry into the country because he posed a security threat. What security threat did he pose to Zambia?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Mumbi Phiri, the question is for Her Honour the Vice-President to answer.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, Zambia is a sovereign country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: It is committed to the tenets of good governance. Further, Zambia is enjoying cordial relations with the Republic of Kenya. One Kenyan national by the name of Prof. Lumumba, …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: … who wanted to enter the country on 29th September, 2018, was denied entry. He was not deported, but was merely denied entry …

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Why?

 

The Vice-President: … for security reasons.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Additionally, this Government is not bound to give reasons for the entry of Prof. Lumumba being denied.

 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, I am very disappointed to hear that our fellow Africans are being denied entry into Zambia. Meanwhile, the Chinese are coming into this country in large numbers.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out how many Chinese nationals were living in Zambia when the Patriotic Front (PF) formed Government in 2011 and how many are currently living in Zambia.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I hear voices of xenophobia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: The hatred being perpetuated by leaders against some nationals either of Chinese or other descent will not do us any good in this country. Unless there are reasons that will convince the Government that a particular citizen is not desirable to enter the country, we welcome every citizen of any country in this world. As for the number of Chinese nationals who are currently working or investing in Zambia, that question can only be answered by the ministry responsible for the Immigration Department, that is, the Ministry of Home Affairs. If the hon. Member is so much interested in knowing the numbers of Chinese nationals and other foreign nationals who are domiciled in Zambia, he can engage the Ministry of Home Affairs.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, the dialogue, which was first proposed by the Commonwealth, has dragged because the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has been changing positions. I would like Her Honour the Vice-President to tell this House and the nation at large what the Government’s position is on the proposed way of dialogue which will be spearheaded by the Church. We have seen a situation, whereby the Government has insisted on the dialogue to be led by some other institution which the PF has manipulated and through which we believe it is pushing an agenda. What is the Government’s position on a national dialogue which we dearly want?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, unless the hon. Member of Parliament was not in the House, this issue was elaborated by the hon. Minister of Justice early this week. He knows very well that all along, the PF has welcomed the dialogue initiative …

 

Ms M. Phiri: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: … and that the Zambia Centre for Inter-party Dialogue (ZCID) and the Church are currently the owners of the process. We know very well that the United Party for National Development (UPND) has had a strong hand in delaying the process …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Vice-President: … by changing goal posts.

 

Mr Lubinda: Hear, hear! Hakainde.

 

The Vice-President: Therefore, the Government and the PF, in particular, is anxious to see that the process is cleaned up and dialogue takes place because this is important for the unity of the country.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

_______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

DECLARATION OF COBALT EXPORTS

 

68. Mr A. C. Mumba (Kantanshi) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

 

  1. what immediate action has been taken against Konkola Copper Mines Plc (KCM) for failing to declare its exports of cobalt;

 

  1. whether there are any on-going investigations in China to determine how much cobalt was exported by the KCM; and

 

  1. what long-term measures the Government is taking to deter mining companies from exporting cobalt, or any other minerals without declaring them to the Government.

 

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Musukwa): Madam Speaker, Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) has not failed to declare its exports of cobalt. However, the declared figures are inconsistent with the production captured by the ministry. The Government is currently evaluating and reconciling the data contained in its Mineral Output Statistical Evaluation System (MOSES). This is our online reporting system which captures both the production and exports.

 

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to know that it is a legal requirement for any person, company or entity intending to export or import any mineral to obtain a permit issued by the Director of Mines and this is substantiated and supported by Section 47 of the Mines and Minerals Act No. 11 of 2015. The Act provides that a person intending to export or import any mineral ore or mineral product shall apply for a permit from the Director of Mines. The mineral will, then, be analysed and an Evaluation Certificate will be issued by the Director of Geological Survey. The certificate is based on the analysis of the mineral samples from the export consignment. The analysis brings out the mineral content in the consignment.

 

Madam, based on the analysis, a Mineral Analysis Certificate is issued. The exporter uses this certificate to obtain a Mineral Royalty Clearance Certificate from the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA). It is only after the exporter has obtained the Mineral Royalty Clearance Certificate from the ZRA that the ministry issues an export permit. The permit shows the mineral products to be exported, the related value and the export destination as well as the validity period.

 

Madam Speaker, all the  mineral analysis certificates obtained by the KCM, which are in the custody of the Government, indicate that beside copper and cobalt, the export contained other minerals such as nickel, gold, palladium platinum and bismuth, to mention but a few

 

Madam Speaker, when I am done with my answer, I will lay on the Table the Mineral Value Certificate generated by the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development, through the Department of Geological Survey and the Director of Mines, and also a document from the KCM detailing its exports for the information of the House.

 

Madam Speaker, there are currently no substantive investigations going on in China to determine how much cobalt was exported by the KCM. However, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is investigating the variance that exists between the production and exports that KCM declared which we, the Government, received. There is some variance between the value that KCM declared and that which our MOSES or online reporting system generated. This is what the Government is investigating.

 

Madam Speaker, going forward, the Government will implement measures to address the following weaknesses in the way mineral exports are processed:

 

  1. despite the ministry issuing a Mineral Analysis Certificate, the ZRA collects mineral royalty based on the value declared by the exporter through export returns submitted after exporting. This represents a major weakness as the exporters are given the opportunity to choose what to declare. In most cases, they pay for the minerals appearing as the major commodity. Consequently, mineral royalty for minor minerals, which are recovered by the buyer outside Zambia for which exporters receive payment, is not paid. In this case, the KCM premises its exports merely on copper and cobalt and there are several other minerals which are exported, yet never paid for; and

 

  1. the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development’s analysis of exports is based on the sample availed or delivered by the exporter to the ministry. This weakness creates room for false declaration by exporters as they can choose a sample which is not representative of the export. In many cases, the ministry is unable to collect samples directly from clients because of resource and human capacity constraints to mention, but a few.

 

Madam Speaker, in order to cure these weaknesses, the Government is working on ensuring that it mitigates under declaration by mining companies by implementing the following measures:

 

  1. introducing a mechanism though which mining companies will be issued invoices for mineral royalty based on the mineral analysis. This will allow for payment of mineral royalty on all the minerals contained in the consignment and not based on the sales, as is the current status; and

 

  1. providing adequate resources for the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development to ensure that sampling is undertaken in various sites where the minerals are mined instead of relying on the clients to bring samples at the ministry headquarters. This will stop the under declaration and also promote transparency as we endeavour to ensure that we have maximum tax collection from the mining industry.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Musonda (Kamfinsa): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate response …

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I would like to apologise to the hon. Member for disturbing his question. As you know, I am a very obedient Member of Parliament. I am very law abiding and respectful, …

 

Mrs M. Phiri: Question!

 

Mr Nkombo: … especially when it comes to the procedures and proceedings of this House.

 

Madam Speaker, the Hon. Speaker is the custodian of all procedures during the proceedings of any Meeting, and hon. Members normally look up to him, on matters of procedure. The Hon. Speaker is the enforcer of all the rules that govern orderly conduct in the House and the preservation of decorum.

 

Mr Kampyongo shook his head.

 

Mr Nkombo: I can see already that there is someone who is refusing to deal with the decorum aspect, but I appreciate the silence. However, yesterday, I asked the hon. Minister of Home Affairs a question regarding the pronouncements made by His Excellency the President when he was in Kigali. His statement was on removing the name of the village of origin on the national document of identification. This is what I said, for the record:

 

“ Sir, a while ago, when the President of the Republic of Zambia was speaking at a function, he suggested that going into the future, the National Registration Card (NRC) must be devoid of the name of the chief where the holder comes from. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether his Government has pursued this thought any further than the President’s pronouncements and, if so, what was the motivation of excluding the traditional birth place in terms of chiefdoms?”

 

Madam, as you may want to recall, the Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Stephen Kampyongo, seated right there, answered as follows:

 

“Mr Speaker, first of all, I want to correct the impression which is being created by the hon. Member. As an hon. Member of Parliament, he should know better than everyone else that the President of the Republic of Zambia is the President for all. So, he should not refer to him as my President. He should have said the President of the Republic of Zambia.”

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: As you can hear the comments, there are people with cognitive difficulties because I just read what I said.  I appreciate that there are people with cognitive dissonance –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Continue with your point of order. Please, I have given you the Floor, hon. Member.

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Continue with your point of order.

 

Mr Nkombo: Sure, I will deal with the other issue in my own time.

 

Madam Speaker, in response to the protest that we were going to stage, following the hon. Minister’s answer that was devoid of any of the things that he had attributed to me, as I have just read out, the Hon. Mr Speaker seated in the Chair indicated that he was not certain whether I had said “your President”. However, he said, “but the record speaks for itself, anyway.” I now have the record which I will lay on the Table.

 

Madam, my protest and point of order is the abuse that I suffered from a colleague by saying things that this particular mouth never uttered. This is the abuse from which I should have obtained protection from the Chair. The whole country was listening and from his response, anybody who does not know how respectful I am, …

 

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

 

Mrs M. Phiri: Question!

 

Mr Nkombo: … especially to fellow colleagues, would have gone home with a wrong impression of my good myself.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Are you through with your point of order?

 

Mr Nkombo: My point of order is: Is the House in order, and mark my words, to have allowed this record of having accused me of being disrespectful to the Head of State to go unattended?

 

I seek your ruling, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: My immediate response to that point of order –

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is Hon. Nkombo still –

 

I was in the House and, indeed, the Hon. Mr Speaker stated that he could not be certain at that point. However, he further stated that the hon. Minister was to take into account your complaint. Your complaint should have been taken into account by the hon. Minister as he was responding to questions on that particular Question that was on the Order Paper. So, for that reason alone, Hon. Nkombo, I do not think that the Chair allowed for your rights to be violated in any way because he urged the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to take your complaint into account.

 

 In the usual way, we encourage that we carry on our business with mutual respect. I expect that both sides will give and take. When an issue arises, and the Speaker guides that you to take something into account, you should show respect by ensuring that, indeed, you take that matter into account. So, this matter was settled yesterday, Hon. Member for Mazabuka, because the Hon. Mr Speaker indicated that firstly, he was not certain and secondly, that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs was to take your complaint into account.

 

We will proceed with the Business of the House. The hon. Member for Kamfinsa was on the Floor.

 

Mr Musonda: Madam Speaker, thank you, once again.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his response, indicated that Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) has not failed to declare the figures. However, there is a discrepancy in tonnage between the KCM figures and the Mineral Output Statistical Evaluation System (MOSES) figures. Could he, please, tell the nation, through this House, what discrepancy in tonnage there is and in whose favour it is.

 

Mr Musukwa: Madam Speaker, like I stated earlier on, there are variances. In fact, the variances span over three years, which we tracked. For instance, for 2018, it is indicated that 169 tonnes of cobalt were reported on the KCM platform. However, according to our MOSES, it was 686 tonnes in favour of the Government.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr A. C. Mumba: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his elaborate response to my question. In terms of money, has the ministry taken time to actually find out how much money the Government has lost, owing to the fact that the budget only declared US$3.5 billion coming only from copper and no other minerals? Has the ministry taken the money lost into consideration?

 

Mr Musukwa: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. A. C. Mumba for the follow-up question and the initial question, and for his being proactive in seeing how best we can supervise the mining industry by bringing the question to Parliament. We are extremely grateful.

 

Madam Speaker, the Government has come up with a deliberate process to ensure that the reconciliations culminate into it getting the balances of the values to ensure that the Government’s contribution from the mining industry is equal to what is on the ground. To that effect, the Government is working tirelessly to ensure that it collects the values so that the gross domestic product (GDP) contribution from the mining industry is commensurate with the status of Zambia being a mining country.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, thank you, and peace be with the hon. Member for Choma Central –

 

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to raise my point of order, and I would like to apologise to my brother for interrupting his line of thought.

 

Madam Speaker, I have been compelled to raise this point of order which hinges on the decorum of this House. I must also state, from the outset, that this point of order should have been raised earlier on, perhaps, as early as Tuesday. However, we were waiting for a verbatim record to be printed out by the Clerk’s Office. On Wednesday, the Clerk’s Office could not avail the verbatim record, until yesterday after you had already ruled that there would be no more points of order during the transactions of the day, as at yesterday.

 

Madam Speaker, my point of order relates to the transaction of business on Tuesday, wherein during the Questions for Oral Answer Session, the hon. Member for Mufulira, I think, had asked a question in respect of the disturbances at the University of Zambia (UNZA). I rose to ask a supplementary question on whether the hon. Minister of Higher Education was not being too heavy-handed in dealing with students at UNZA and other institutions of learning.

 

Madam Speaker, in her response, the hon. Minister of Higher Education, in part, responded, and I will quote the relevant parts on which  I am raising my point of order which is standing on more than one limb. The hon. Minister of Higher Education, in response to my question, stated:

 

“Madam Speaker, I would have wished that the hon. Member of Parliament, who is asking this question, would have declared interest. It is probably because of his leadership that we have had so much damage done to people’s property.”

 

Madam Speaker, it is at this stage that the hon. Members on your left decided to walk out, and you said that, “quietly leave if you are leaving.” As we were quietly leaving, the hon. Members on your right pelted various unpalatables on us, your own hon. Members.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Lands ...

 

Ms Kapata: Iwe mfumyamo. Wila angala.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mweetwa: ... and Natural Resources stated at follows:

 

 “One day, leave us tukaiponone one by one muno tuka mone uwakosa.”

 

Hon. Government Members: Isa, isa!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my right!

 

Interruptions

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my left as well!

 

Continue, hon. Member.

 

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Government Members, as quoted verbatim, went ahead to refer to us as satanists as we were leaving.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mweetwa: My older sister, the Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, Hon. Kapata, is ...

 

Ms Kapata: I am not your sister!

 

 

Mr Mweetwa: ... quoted in the verbatim as having said:

 

Fi satanist. Nafisa nafifwala ne fya black.”

 

Madam Speaker, in terms of the response by the hon. Minister of Higher Education wherein she asserted that I should have declared interest without stating the nature of interest or the matter in which such interest should have been declared, and she also told this House and the nation that it is because of my leadership that many people’s property has been destroyed it the UPND leadership that is causing the property of many people to be destroyed? Standing Order No. 53 states that:

 

“A Member shall, in debating any matter, ensure that the information he or she provides to the House is factual and verifiable.”

 

Madam Speaker, was the hon. Minister of Higher Education in order, therefore, to use an innuendo on me having an interest to declare in the matter of the disturbances at UNZA, thereby leaving a vacuum of speculation and also to go ahead to inform this nation, through this House, that many people’s property had been destroyed because of the United Party for National Development (UPND) leadership? Given that Zambia is a Christian nation, were the hon. Government Members, and the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources in particular, ...

 

Ms Kapata: What is it about the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources?

 

Mr Mweetwa: ... in order to refer to us as satanists when we are Members of this august House which has bequeathed to us, as a people, a Constitution that declares Zambia a Christian nation?

 

Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Higher Education, the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources and, indeed the hon. Members, of the Executive in order to abuse us like they did on that day and, therefore, lowering the decorum of this House?

 

Madam, I need your serious ruling.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: My ruling is that on the first part, as the House is aware, complaints of such a nature, which have to do with utterances by any hon. Member on the Floor against another hon. Member must be raised contemporaneously. That is the rule. You should have raised that point of order then. Then, I would have been in a position to make a ruling. That is the first part.

 

The second part is about the use of unpalatable language in the House. On this part, I would like to take advantage of this point of order and state that there are very few hon. Members in this House who have not, at one time or another, issued unprintables and used unpalatable language against either the right or the left. All this goes on record, which is extremely unfortunate. We have continued to guide the House that this is an honourable House and that you are hon. Members, representing the people of Zambia who expect that when you come to this House, you will represent them with honour and dignity and not to exchange the kind of language that you use sometimes. So, yes, it is unfortunate, but I urge all hon. Members of the House to conduct the Business of the House with the dignity that is expected of us all. That kind of language where you cast aspersions on each other does not help. Indeed, it lowers the dignity of this honourable House. That is my ruling.

 

It makes us, the Presiding Officers, very uncomfortable when we are reviewing the verbatim record because we see all this. Hon. Members, what you say goes on record and so, your grandchildren will come and read what you are saying. That is my ruling and, through it, my guidance to the House.

 

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was talking about the cobalt that was discovered in China as having been smuggled from this country without paying Mineral Royalty Tax or any taxes. The President of our neighbouring country, Tanzania, Mr Magufuli, has emphasised that it is not the duty of the mining companies to tell the Government what they are exporting. Rather, it is the duty of the Government to tell the mines what they are exporting and how much they are supposed to pay the Government. The Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) is on record as having told the nation that it had introduced scanners at our border points. The secret that these mining companies are holding onto very closely is being aided by our own officers, either at the border points or the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

 

Madam Speaker, I want to give you the statistics of the pricing, ...

 

Hon. Opposition Member: What is your question?

 

Mr Ngulube: ... before I ask my question.

 

Just hold your fire, I will come back to you. One of the issues that people are crying about is that the country, at the moment, does not have enough resources to build schools, complete road works and other projects. The price of 100g of gold on the London Metal Exchange, as of this morning, was more than US$20,000. Cobalt prices were at US$58,000 per tonne. 1kg of uranium is about US$7 million. I want it to be on record that when the mining companies are processing their minerals for export, they get 95 per cent copper, 100g of cobalt and mix up the minerals with the view to evade payments. What is the status of the scanners that the ZRA had put in place? When are we, the people of Zambia, getting our money from the mining company that illegally exported cobalt to China?

 

Madam Speaker, I have asked the hon. Minister two questions. He can split or combine them. When are we getting our money from the mining company that swindled the people of Zambia? Based on the prices that I have given you, it is very clear that a tonne of Cobalt costs US$58,000. Every truckload of copper that is leaving those mining companies is carrying roughly about a tonne of cobalt. Therefore, each truckload will have –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you have asked your question.

 

Mr Ngulube: It is just that I am angry now.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Musukwa: Madam Speaker, I thank you, and thank you, Hon. Tutwa. I am now responding to your question.

 

Mr Ngulube: Hon. Ngulube!

 

Mr Musukwa: Hon. Ngulube, I am responding to your question and you have to pay attention now.

 

Mr Ngulube: Yes!

 

Mr Musukwa: Madam Speaker, I want to agree with Hon. Ngulube that, indeed, the people of Zambia deserve to get maximum benefit from the mining industry. I have stated that it is regrettable that despite being the hub of Zambia’s economy, for a long time, the mining industry’s contribution to the country’s GDP is a meagre 11 per cent. The Government is, however, determined to transform this unfortunate circumstance.

 

As the hon. Member has rightly indicated, we have X-ray fluorescence (XRF) gun machines and scanners in strategic positions. The machines installed as a result of the tax leakages. In short, the values that we, as the Government, were receiving were not consistent with what we were expecting. Together with the ZRA, we are in the process of ensuring that we get value for our money.

 

Madam Speaker, the MOSES reporting system, which I have spoken about, is a Government initiative with our co-operating partners which gives information from production to processing, up to the last point of sale. This is a measure that is being undertaken.

 

Madam Speaker, I have noted that the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwe Central has referred to the price of some metals which include gold and cobalt. However, he has understated the fact because he is basing his question on the current price of cobalt which, precisely, is at US$57,500 per tonne, today, but this price was over US$95,000 per metric tonne in the last three or four months which means that we lost terribly during that period. This is why the proactive Patriotic Front (PF) Government has structured the new fiscal regime to ensure that we get benefits from the mining industry.

 

Madam Speaker, let me allay the anxiety that has arisen out of the presumption made by Hon. Ngulube that there was cobalt which was ...

 

Mr Ngulube: Smuggled!

 

Mr Musukwa: ... smuggled out of the country. There is no gold or cobalt which was smuggled out of this country. If hon. Members followed my answer, I have stated that very clearly. I have a mineral analysis document which was submitted by the ministry and was the basis for the export. What concerns us is the variance that exists between what the MOSES projected and what the mining houses declared. There is this variance which we are trying to reconcile to ensure that what is due to the Government is given to it.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Madam Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister mentioned that there is a variance between what the mining company declared and what the ministry came up with. How does that variance arise? Is it a computational variance or was it a deliberate attempt by the mining company with intent to defraud this country of its much-required revenue?

 

Mr Musukwa: Madam Speaker, the Government has a duty to ensure that it gets value from the minerals for its people and this country. In this regard, after an alarm was raised by various hon. Minister’s after the China trip from where this story emanated, the Government undertook an audit of what is contained in the exports of cobalt and copper. Indeed, the Government discovered that cobalt and copper had been exported to China and declared duly. However, what was critical was that the values that were being declared were different from what the Government had.

 

Madam Speaker, as I have stated, mining houses have been paying for royalties after they have sold their products. That is why the Government has insisted that the mines pay for all the minerals contained before they are exported because they are being exported to be sold anyway. It was through metallurgical calculations that this variance was established. I can only assume that this variance is being reconciled and that the Government will ensure that what belongs to it is recovered.

 

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

 

Mr Chali (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, –

 

Mr Chabi: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Chabi: Madam Speaker, I do not normally rise on points of order, but this one is very compelling.

 

Madam Speaker, on 20th September, 2018, and I am happy that you are the one who was in that Chair – I posed a question to the hon. Minister of Works and Supply over the issue of dredgers and the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development, for reasons best known to himself, responded to the question. I posed a second follow-up question, which I remember vividly being after resumption of debate. I stated:

 

“Madam Speaker, before Business was suspended, I was saying that it is saddening that our colleagues who are tasked with the responsibility to be stewards of public funds do not take this responsibility seriously.

 

“Madam, in response to my question, the hon. Minister said 15 per cent of the total amount of money was paid to the contractor, MCD Civil and Mechanical Engineering. Upon providing the bill of lading documents, 70 per cent of the money was paid. Like I mentioned, the procurement of public funds is supported by laws because this is not a private-to-private business transaction. There are laws such as the Zambia Public Procurement Authority Act, which guide the procurement process in the Government. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Zambia Public Procurement Authority Act allows advance payment based on the bill of lading instead of delivery.”

 

Madam Speaker, the following was the response from the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development, Hon. Chitotela, ...

 

Mr Ngulube: MP!

 

Mr Chabi: ... Member of Parliament for Pambashe and an ally of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (Avic).

 

Laughter

 

Mr Chabi: He stated:

 

“Madam Speaker, I need to consult the Zambia Public Procurement Authority Act to give a comprehensive answer. I need to check what the Act says and see what percentages are allowed, whether it is by contractual discretion or how much is supposed to be paid is actually embedded in the Act. I would not want to embarrass myself by stating that which may be contrary to the law.”

 

Mr Chitotela: On a point of order!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member for Chipili, did I miss something? Can you just repeat what you said.

 

Mr Chabi: His response?

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What did you say after you mentioned Hon. Chitotela?

 

Mr Chabi: I said he was the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development and an ally to Avic.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: And another?

 

Mr Chabi: Ally. A friend.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: An ally of yours?

 

Hon. Members: Ally of Avic.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Oh Avic?

 

Laughter

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What do you mean by that?

 

Mr Chabi: He is a friend.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: How do you know for certain? Withdraw that statement in reference to the hon. Minister in that fashion.

 

Mr Ngulube: And sit down!

 

Mr Chabi: Most obliged, Madam Speaker, I withdraw it.

 

Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister’s response was:

 

“Madam Speaker, I need to consult the Zambia Public Procurement Authority Act to give a comprehensive answer. I need to check what the Act says and see what percentages are allowed, whether it is by contractual discretion or how much is supposed to be paid is actually embedded in the Act. I would not want to embarrass myself by stating that which may be contrary to the law.”

 

Madam Speaker, he went on to emphasise by way of asking a question –

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: If you do not conclude your point of order before business is suspended, it will lapse.

 

Mr Chabi: The hon. Minister agreed to come back to the House. Is the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development in order to have taken twenty-one days consulting the Zambia Public Procurement Authority Act without coming to the House to clarify whether ...

 

Hon. Members: Order!

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Let him finish.

 

Mr Chabi: ... it is permitted, in the Act, to pay 70 per cent of the total amount based on the bill of lading?

 

I seek your serious ruling, Madam.

 

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The serious ruling is that the hon. Minister was and still is in order because he has to be thorough in his consultations. That is my ruling.

 

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

 

[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Mr Chali: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was asking whether the hon. Minister is aware that the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) has been importing a lot of copper concentrates from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) which it treats and whose end product is cobalt? Can we, therefore, assume that the cobalt that was found in China is that which is obtained after treatment of the concentrates from the DRC? If not, how is the cobalt from local mining separated from that which is extracted from the concentrates that are imported from Congo?

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that the KCM has been importing concentrates from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). However, I want to preface my answer by stating that we, as the Government, would like to encourage mining houses to invest in development instead of reliance on imported materials like the KCM is doing.

 

Mr Speaker, the concentrates are from the DRC have been analysed by our Geological Survey Department. The cobalt quantities of cobalt in the concentrates are too meagre to talk about and to create this variance which has been stated. So, we cannot relate the cobalt that was found in China to that which is coming from the DRC because our analysis has indicated that the cobalt that was found is potentially the one that is mined together with copper in Nchanga. The value of the cobalt in the imported alloys is very little.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, …

 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Members, I think that we will not continue to allow points of order. It must be known that those who want to debate the Motion we are considering have only today and Tuesday. Therefore, this will be the last point of order to be given. I will give the hon. Member the opportunity to raise the point of order.

 

A point of order is raised.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am most obliged and appreciate the opportunity. This is a House that is run on procedure, as I say all the time. At the beginning of the week, the hon. Minister of Energy, when answering the many questions surrounding the importation of crude oil from Saudi Arabia, was directed by you, the Chair, to come with a statement today, Friday. This is on record in the Hansard. Since this is a House that runs on procedure, which we cannot swallow with impunity, is Her Honour the Vice-President, who is Leader of Government Business in the House, in order to remain seated without telling the acting hon. Minister of Energy or whoever it is to address the issue?

 

Mr Speaker, we now suspect that the hon. Minister of Energy decided to abscond from Parliament today as a result of this directive from you that a comprehensive statement be given surrounding the issue of the importation of oil from Saudi Arabia, specifically the issue of the US$20 million worth of oil import.

 

 I seek your serious ruling, Sir. Is there another Friday or is tomorrow another Friday?

 

Mr First Deputy Speaker: Indeed, it was said that the hon. Minister of Energy comes to this House today to present a statement, but we have allowed him to come on Friday next week and issue the same ministerial statement.

 

The hon. Member for Zambezi East may continue.

 

Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, my follow-up question concerns part (c) of the question under consideration, which states: “What long-term measures is the Government taking to deter mining companies from exporting cobalt or any other minerals without declaring them to the Government.”

 

Mr Speaker, I wish to remind the hon. Minister about the pronouncements that the late President, His Excellency, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, may his soul rest in peace, made in this very House when he came into power concerning production in the mines. He mentioned the fact that there was a need to get to the bottom of what was being produced and to set up an audit team that would audit what was being produced and exported.

 

I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government has now come up with a system to audit what is produced and exported from the mines instead of us shooting in the dark without knowing the targets.

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, I want to take cognisance of the fact that the hon. Member is very proactive and has been following the work of the Patriotic Front (PF) through the late Michael Chilufya Sata’s pronouncements. This is what we stand for as PF. We thank him very much.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Musukwa: Ours is to ensure that the mining industry becomes relevant to our people by transforming their lives, especially in host communities where the resources are mined. Yes, there is a system that we have now developed. This is the MOSES. What is good is that this system was developed at a platform of the African Mining Vision which envisages that value addition through the mining processes is enhanced. It is being undertaken in many African countries, as approved by the African Union (AU). Its main emphasis is to ensure that were African countries, like Zambia, were short-changed in terms of information from production,  processing and up to sales collection is enhanced. This is an online system and that is why we are able to easily detect the variance of what the KCM is doing.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, the suffering of the good people of Chingola and Chililabombwe is attributed to Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), as one of the mining giants on the Copperbelt, pretending not to be in good business. Now that there is this serious allegation of illegal exportation of cobalt, should the investigations find the KCM wanting, will the Government show it the exit door for once?

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, indeed, I want to agree with him that for a number of months, the people of Chingola, Chililabombwe, Kitwe and Nampundwe, where the KCM has operations, have been going through many challenges because of the liquidity structure of the company.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government’s role is not to abruptly stop an operation like the hon. Member is suggesting, but to ensure that it continues to promote and create a platform for investment. This is what has been done with the KCM. In doing so, the Government is not allowing mediocrity and the suffering of its people, but is allowing the company to restructure itself into a vehicle that will become profitable in the long run. The Government will ensure that the job security of its people and the contribution of the resources to the National Treasury is also enhanced.

 

Sir, the Government is closely monitoring the KCM. It does not want it to become a sinking titanic where all of a sudden people find themselves dismissed. We are a responsible Government. We were elected to ensure that we make decisions that have the interest of our people. So, we are closely monitoring the KCM to ensure that it is sustainable and relevant to our people at heart. We have told the KCM is to ensure that it invests its resources in development. It is in development that it will create a future for our people in Chingola and Chililabombwe.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that due to a lack of resources and manpower, it is difficult to intervene in this matter. We are dealing with high value commodities. These are minerals.

 

Mr Speaker, there are some slag dumps on the Copperbelt and some of them have been given to Jerabos who have been carrying out mineral analysis. Hon. Minister, the exports of copper or any other minerals do not go by air. Even if they went by air, they have to use an airport whose operations are regulated by the Government. All our routes and borders are manned by Government officials. We also have bonded warehouses. This a high value commodity and the Government should spend more by employing more people and putting up more equipment for use. Why has the Government relaxed by allowing this trend to continue when the Government can import materials and equipment to determine how much cobalt is in those slag dumps, in the bonded warehouses and what has been exported? For us to get information from outside the country shows that the Zambians are sleeping. Why has the Government allowed such a situation?

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the Government has not relaxed to promote this vice. That is why I have clearly stated that in order for the Government to generate resources from the mining industry, we need to use resources in order to make resources. That is why I also talked about the human capital and equipment. Her Honour the Vice-President has actually been very instrumental in ensuring that we create a platform through which the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is capacitated to collect these resources.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government is working flat out with the resources it has to ensure that it creates wealth. If the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i followed my response, he would have heard me say that the Geological Survey Department has produced reports of all the mineral elements contained in the exports to China. In fact, when that report came out, the team that I have come with here to respond to this good question, already had that information. So, all we need to do is enhance the equipment because we have set up this Financial Reporting Extender (FRx) equipment around the country. However, these are not enough. As the hon. Member has rightly indicated, the mining industry is our money-spinner. For economic development, we need to invest resources in human capital and equipment. Thank you for your support.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, this question and the responses the hon. Minister has given are at the core of the problems of poverty in Africa, including Zambia. In his response, the hon. Minister has touched on a number of issues like the lack of capacity, several minerals exported, but not paid for and many other issues.

 

Mr Speaker, clearly, that is what defines the illicit financial flow out of Africa where Africa is losing more than US$50 billion every year through these kinds of things. Does the hon. Minister not think that we probably need a very strong multi-sectoral committee, as it were, to monitor this problem which is at the core of our poverty in the country?

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Professor has spoken so well. Yes, we do.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Chibanda (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, it is interesting to listen to the hon. Minister’s answers. It is very clear that with the mismatch in the figures, the KCM has actually been stealing from this Government and the people of Zambia. Now, with the revelations that the KCM’s holding company has actually been de-listed, what measures does the Government think it will have to take to recoup the difference in terms of taxes of over 500 tonnes that were under declared that this country has lost out in just one particular year.

 

Mr Mwiinga:  500 tonnes of what?

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, I was wondering if the word ‘stealing’ is parliamentary. Perhaps, I can also use it.

 

Mr Speaker, I would not preface my answer on the grounds that the KCM has been stealing. What we have stated is that there is a variance between the values that the KCM has produced and the values that the Government has produced. Under the operations of the ZRA, if there is a variance in what is supposed to be taxed, there is reassessment. In this regard, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development recommends that once it completes its operations, the ZRA reassesses the variance and ensures that the people of Zambia, Mufulira and Chililabombwe in particular, get value for the money that was at variance.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Mr Speaker, would it be possible to lock in all the base metals to allow for value addition to be done locally?

 

Mr Musukwa: I beg your pardon, Mr Speaker. I would like the hon. Member for Serenje to repeat the question.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Serenje, could you repeat your question.

 

Mr Kabanda: Mr Speaker, what could be the effect of locking in all the base metals so that value addition could be done locally? In other words, what would happen if we did not export base metals?

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the question clear now, hon. Minister?

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, Zambia, like many other countries, operates in a global village. So, we need to ensure that the interactions continue. As a country, we want to ensure that there is value addition to the mineral resources in our country. This will eventually promote the manufacturing industry which, for a long time, has gone down because of the lack a value addition. However, we, sometimes, export minerals because of not having certain processing capacities, and that is why we are promoting value addition to be done locally by putting up facilities that can process the minerals.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The last question will be from the hon. Member for Chinsali. We have to make progress.

 

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, during the presentation of the Budget by the hon. Minister of Finance, she talked about how the Government has gained traction in the implementation of the Mineral Production Monitoring Support Project. Therefore, I seek clarification on how the Mineral Production Monitoring Support Project will help in deterring the mining companies from producing and exporting minerals, including cobalt, without declaring them to the Government?

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, indeed, the Government has gained traction in this regard. That is why it has developed the Mineral Production Monitoring Support Project Reporting System. The system provides a lot of details in capturing information from mining, concentration, lynching, smelting, refining, stock and trade.

 

Sir, you will be interested to know that this system is undertaken monthly and produces quarterly reports which are audited. The system also generates automatic online information on mining houses that are not compliant. This is also followed up with penalties associated with non-compliance. We are also incorporating small-scale mines because we have just been dealing with large-scale operations.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

SUB CHIEF KASHILA SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION

 

69. Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge) asked the Minister of General Education:

 

  1. when the Government will construct a school at Sub Chief Kashila in Chief Sokontwe’s  area in Milenge District;

 

  1. how the funds allocated for the project in 2010 were utilised;

 

  1. whether the Government has made a follow up on the matter;

 

  1. if so, when the follow up was made; and

 

  1. if not, why.

 

The Minister of General Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the Government will construct a school at Sub Chief Kashila in Chief Sokontwe’s area in Milenge District when funds are made available.

 

Sir, the funds allocated for the construction of a 1X3 classroom block at Kashila in 2010 were used to construct a 1X3 classroom block at Kafwanka Secondary School in Milenge District because the area, at the time, was still inaccessible by trucks due to the absence of a road network. The decision to divert or use the funds to construct a 1X3 classroom block at Kafwanka Secondary School was made by the local government and civic leaders, in consultation with the area hon. Member of Parliament.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Office of the Provincial Education Officer (PEO), is fully aware of the above development, and records are available at both district and provincial education offices.

 

Sir, in view of the response given to part (b) and (c) of the question, part (d) and (e) of the question automatically fall off.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, allow me to indicate that we on your left, recognise the humility and politeness with which some hon. Ministers such as the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development execute their ministerial duties. He and the hon. Minister on the Floor are very polite and respectful …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mweetwa: … to hon. Members of this House. How I wish they were in the majority because some hon. Ministers are quick to get angry and answer out of context.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Your point, hon. Member, is clear.

 

Ask your question, please.

 

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I am concerned about the answer by the hon. Minister on when the Government will actually construct a school in this particular area. In answer to part (a) of the Question, he said that the school will be constructed when funds are made available and when one says this, he/she must attach a time frame because funds do not just drop from nowhere. They come either through donor funding or budget planning. The hon. Minister could have said that the Government will budget for that particular school in Milenge in the 2020 Budget unlike just saying, “when funds are available”. We know that in the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, funds are difficult to come by and there is a lot of abuse of public resources.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

 

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, why should the people of Milenge continue suffering and expect the Government to attend to their concerns when it has not given them a time frame?

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Member for Choma Central is aware, one of the policy decisions that has been made is that all the funds that will be made available, going forward, will go towards the completion of 115 schools, and I am sure Choma has been a beneficiary of this. So, it is difficult for me to give a time frame because all the Government resources are being used to complete the 115 schools so that we can begin new projects. I think Hon. Mweetwa is aware of this policy position.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Mr Speaker, in a way, the hon. Minister has touched on what was supposed to be my question, but can he be clearer on why the construction cannot happen in Milenge. Is it a question of a lack of funds or a matter of the policy position that the Government has now taken with regard to construction?

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of General Education, repeat yourself regarding that question.

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, it is not a question of a lack of funds. Let me just give my colleagues an example. In the last four months, the Government has released about K300 million for investment in the on-going school infrastructure project. So, let us just look at the quantum of the money released, hon. Colleagues.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government is saying that it cannot build the school in Milenge, at the moment, for the reason that it wants the money which will be made available to the ministry to be focused on completing many of the school projects which are situated in my hon. Colleagues constituencies. I do not think it is fair for a school to be under construction for four to five years. So, why can we not focus all the available resources on those particular schools so that when we complete them we can, then, embark on a new journey of taking on new projects?

 

I thank you Sir.

 

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, hon. Members of this House may wish to know that the place we are talking about is, without any doubt, the most underdeveloped area in this country today. There is no question about it. Hon. Members can carry out research and they will discover that there is no place more underdeveloped than this. So, one would imagine that my hon. Colleague would be more sympathetic.

 

Mr Speaker, I have followed the points of order by the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central and the hon. Member for Choma Central this morning. I, therefore, want to follow their path. I know the procedure of this House. When the name of an hon. Member is brought into disrepute, there are procedures through which he/she can appeal to the Hon. Mr Speaker.

 

Sir, the hon. Minister said that the change, which took place in 2010, was after consultation with the area hon. Member of Parliament. I take very strong exception to that. As a result, I want to put it very clearly that I will approach the Office of the Hon. Mr Speaker because it sends a wrong signal …

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbulakulima: … when the area Member of Parliament can be the one to divert resources from the most underdeveloped area to an area which is better placed.

 

Mr Speaker, if it means subpoenaing the people who gave that kind of answer to the hon. Minister, it must be done. I take very strong exception to that. However, this kind of debate can be likened to a situation in football where there is an expatriate coach and a local coach. One of the strong points about the local coach is that he understands the environment. In the same light, I expect the hon. Minister, being a local person who understands the suffering of the people, to be the first one to help that place rather than giving that kind answer. As the hon. Member for Choma Central said, the response of, “when funds are available” is neither here nor there. Since the hon. Minister understands the suffering of the people of Milenge and what happened there because this is the sixth time this question is coming up –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, we are expecting a question.

 

Mr Mbulakulima: As a local person from that area, why can he not take it upon himself to do what is good for the people of Milenge and Kashila in particular. When will he do that?

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Is the question clear, hon. Minister of General Education?

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, of course, I will continue repeating myself. Probably, the answer we gave in part (b) of the question is on the basis of the information available at the local level. Maybe, my colleague is unhappy that he was mentioned in the answer which I gave. This is the information we got from the district as well as the province on the consultations which took place.

 

 Mr Speaker, his question still remains valid because what he wants is a school for the people of Kashila. In my response, I have stated that the plans to attend to this school are there but, at the moment, the Government wants to focus on completing the 115 secondary schools.

 

Sir, when one goes to Milenge District, he/she would discover that Hon. Mbulakulima and the people of Milenge are beneficiaries of the 115 secondary schools because Milenge Secondary School has been under construction, but there are few teething problems which are being taken care of. So, as much as he is under pressure in that particular location, I would like to request my hon. Colleague to allow us to complete the projects which are ongoing and then, at a later stage, we could probably revert to that particular place in Chief Kashila and provide the school infrastructure he is requesting for.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Ikeleng’i will be the last one to ask on this Question.

 

Mr Ngulube: Aah!

 

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, let me also echo the words of the last questioner and state that the hon. Minister is one of most respected hon. Ministers. Education is the future of all of us. I do not want the hon. Minister to render himself irrelevant by being vague in statements such as, “projects will be completed when funds are made available” for such statements are made by those who are vague in our context and he is not a part of them. Can he tell us exactly when the secondary schools – I do not know the number – the Government is building will be completed so that we can revert to Hon. Mbulakulima’s place and start building? The entire country is waiting for him.  He should not be vague. He should come out clearly today. When will he complete the projects so that we can plan properly?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, in terms of the context and just by looking at the infrastructure under construction, I would safely say that most of the school projects will be completed in 2020.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

_______

 

MOTION

 

BUDGET 2019

 

(Debate resumed)

 

Ms Kasanda (Chisamba): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity. When the House adjourned yesterday, I was saying that every time we ask for development, we are told, “Ici vote vote” which means the pattern of our voting.

 

Sir, when we come here, as hon. Members of Parliament, we have the choice of which party ticket to stand on and the party to vote for. Therefore, hon. Members of Parliament on your left voted for the United Party for National Development (UPND).

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: We are UPND Members of Parliament. Therefore, we have the right to choose how to vote. However, development should be taken to every area because we are not asking for personal money. The money that we are asking for is Government money, which is taxpayer’s money.

 

Hon. UPND Members:  Correct!

 

Ms Kasanda: So, if they are talking about ici vote vote, they should ensure that we do not pay tax because of the voting pattern. So, that is the concern the people on your left and the people of Chisamba in particular have. This is why as a loyal servant of the people of Chisamba, I have been told not to vote, agree or approve what they have not told me to do. That is why I am saying that I am not ready to approve the Budget because it does not benefit my people.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: Mr Speaker, when we talk about education, human development plays a critical role in promoting growth for any nation. Education is cardinal and should, therefore, be given the attention it deserves. When we look at the schools in our constituencies, especially those in rural areas, their roofs are blown off, yet not even the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) will come to our aid. Children learn in thatched classrooms. We are talking about fifty-four years after Independence, yet pupils are still leaning from thatched structures. It is unfortunate that we still have children sitting on the floor in classrooms.

 

Mr Ngulube: Where?

 

Ms Kasanda: Children sit on sacks because there are no desks in schools, yet we come here every year to approve the National Budget which does not help our people at all. This is why the people of Chisamba have said that they will not support the 2019 Budget.

 

Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Machila: This time it is dununa reverse.

 

Ms Kasanda: Mr Speaker, I want to give you an example of a school in Chikonkomene Ward in my constituency. At this school, both the children and teachers learn and write on the floor. How do we expect the children to pass examinations? There are not even enough teachers. The three teachers at this school contribute money to pay a student to help them teach. Where is the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, which claims to be working, when this is happening?

 

Mr Speaker, we want to see this Government working in all the constituencies, as opposed to choosing which constituencies to take development. Development is supposed to be taken across the country. Public funds belong to all the Zambians, and not to the PF Government. Therefore, public resources are supposed to benefit all the Zambians, whether they voted for the PF or not. Whether Nichivote vote or not, Government money should reach everybody.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: Nanga lelo waichosa kuti spirit yaso?

 

Laughter

 

Ms Kasanda: Mr Speaker, I also want to give an example of another school called Chipandaike. At this school, you find pupils in Grade 3 and 4 in one class using the same board. One teacher will write on the board and tell the Grade 4 pupils to copy. Thereafter, the teacher will do the same for the Grade 3 pupils. While this situation prevails, the money for public order and safety has been increased in the 2019 Budget. We do not have a war in Zambia. We have always enjoyed peace in this country. Unless the PF has intensions of creating a war in Zambia, we do not expect to go to war for the Government to increase funds for public order and safety.

 

Mr Speaker, what we want is for public funds to be spent on education, health and water development as opposed to the Government allocating the funds in this manner. If money is being spent on public order and safety, look at what recently happened at the University of Zambia (UNZA). Where was public order and safety provided? Through death? It is not helping us.

 

Mr Speaker, what we want is for public resources to be spent on something tangible that helps our communities, especially in the rural areas. When you look at the rural-urban divide, there is so much inequality. Therefore, the plea of the people of Chisamba is to have this inequality addressed.

 

Mr Ngulube: I thank you.

 

Ms Kasanda: I am not thanking you yet, Hon. Tutwa Ngulube.

 

Mr Speaker, when we talk about road infrastructure, we want the Government to make life easy for our farmers by providing access to markets through the maintenance of roads. Therefore, we want all the roads to be worked on. An example is the Chipembi/Chamuka Road, which the Chinese started working on, but we do not see them there anymore. The Kasosolo Road is also impassable. If we went to the Momboshi/Kazelo Road, we would see that no vehicle can pass on that road at the moment.

 

Mr Speaker, all the tarred roads we see are in the City of Lusaka. How are the rural roads coming in? The bridges in our rural areas have become death traps. An example is a bridge called Muswishi/Mututu. This is a death trap. We have gone to the Road Development Agency (RDA) and everywhere else concerning this bridge, but nothing has been done about it. So, why should we come here to approve the Budget, like we did last year, when nothing will be done?

 

Mr Speaker, I think it is about time the PF Government realised that the money we are asking for does not belong to the Ruling Party, but to the people of Zambia. Many areas are cut-off during the rainy season because of bridges being washed away. Therefore, pupils cannot go to school. School children have to cross rivers using fallen trees to get to the other side when it rains. Some children have died from crocodile attacks after falling into rivers when trying to cross over to the other side to access school.

 

 Mr Speaker, it is, therefore, very important that roads are worked on. If I remember very well, we have fourteen tollgates that have been constructed and are operational at the moment. One of them is the one that the PF Government is calling the Katuba Tollgate, but it is in Chisamba. It seems the geography of the Government is not even up-to-date because our colleagues on your right do not even know where Chisamba starts and where it ends.

 

Mr Speaker, we know that money has been made from the tollgates. The reason for the construction of tollgates was to maintain roads, but we are not seeing the roads being maintained in Katuba, Chisamba or Keembe. There is a tollgate in our district, yet we are not seeing anything. The Government is getting money from the tollgate in my constituency and bringing it to Lusaka to tar roads here. That is very unfortunate.

 

Mr Speaker, the only money that is used to bring development to our rural constituencies is the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). We approved the CDF of K1.4 million per constituency here last year. However, what has been happening since 2016? In 2016, we were not given any CDF at all. In 2017, only K700,000, which is half of the K1.4 million, was released. In 2018, some constituencies did not receive any CDF and others only received K500,000. What are we supposed to tell our people?

 

Mr Speaker, the way the hon. Minister comes before this House to tell the nation what is in her Budget is the same way she should come here and say that she has failed to release the money to our constituencies, as opposed to leaving it to us the people on the left to explain to our people.

 

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: Mr Speaker, the agriculture sector is the largest source of livelihood for our people and the mainstay of the economy of the country, especially in rural areas. However, what are we seeing today? We have seen that the Electronic (e)-Voucher system has completely failed. Farmers paid the K400 contribution in the hope of getting inputs under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). Some of them have not received inputs since 2016 and there has been no explanation for this.

 

Mr Speaker, on page 7, paragraph 45 of the Budget Address, it was very disappointing and shocking to hear the hon. Minister of Finance say that low productivity is attributed to over dependence on rain-fed agriculture and poor agricultural practices. Does the hon. Minister surely expect the people of Chisamba, Choma or Dundumwezi to create their own rain? We do not have that capacity because we are not God. What we are saying is that the PF Government should put some mechanisms in place to ensure that people have irrigation points.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: The Government has been talking about the Momboshi Dam Project to irrigate the whole of Chisamba. It will only cater for 3,000 ha. Chisamba is much bigger than that and Zambia is much bigger than that. What we are saying to the PF Government is that we want to see public resources being put to use.

 

Mr Speaker, we are aware that energy is a key enabler of sustainable economic growth. However, it is a big shame that currently, the national coverage of access to electricity stands at 31 per cent of the Zambian population. This is unacceptable indeed. How do we expect children in schools to learn Information and Communication Technology (ICT) without electricity? How will they learn to use a computer without electricity? Are they supposed to make their own electricity, like it was done in the ancient days? It is not possible. That is why we are saying can energy be taken to every part of the country so that all of us can benefit.

 

Mr Speaker, what we are saying is that this Government is doing nothing to reduce the inequalities in development, especially in rural areas.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kasanda: However, whenever we ask for development, we hear “Ici vote vote.” Apo na votela, ni choice yandi. How I vote is my choice. The vote is mine and, therefore, the development is for the people of Zambia.

 

Mr Speaker, in Lenje, we say, “Sokwe ulali tondesha bulowa”, meaning a monkey shows its powers by showing its blood. What I am saying is that the PF Government should show its power through development.

 

Mr Speaker, next time, Hon. Tutwa Ngulube should concentrate on the Central Province and Kabwe as a whole because there is nothing happening there as well.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Machila (Magoye): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the Floor.

 

Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to say that the 2019 Budget is not inspiring and does not offer any hope for the majority of the poor in Zambia. I will start by concentrating on the education sector. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government has systematically destroyed the education sector, despite Zambia being a signatory to many international protocols on education that demand that a certain amount of resources in the country be allocated to the education sector to reduce illiteracy and poverty levels. This will be to ensure that there is growth in development. For example, Zambia signed an agreement with the African Union (AU) on the level of funding that should go to education. The AU requires that an average of 24 per cent of the National Budget be allocated to education. Look at what has been allocated to the education sector from 2015 to 2019. In 2015, the allocation was 20.2 per cent, in 2016, it came down to 17.2, in 2017, it came down to 16.5 per cent, in 2018, it further came down to 16.2 per cent and, in the 2019 Budget, it has further reduced to 15.3 per cent. Indeed, this is dununa reverse, moving in reverse gear. Instead of increasing the allocation, we are moving backwards, yet education is very important to generate national development.

 

Mr Speaker, I would propose that the huge amount that has been allocated to public order and safety be shifted to cushion education because the money that goes to public order and safety is grossly abused by the PF Government, as the case was at the University of Zambia (UNZA) recently.

 

As a result of poor funding to the education sector, institutions of higher learning have been negatively affected. I will cite examples. There has been delayed payment of allowances to students and allowances have been paid to many ghost students, as indicated in the Auditor-General’s Report. Monies which were meant for general development were mismanaged or embezzled. Student affairs were mismanaged by outlawing the unions which are part of the general development of the students. The students have been banned from having a union through which they could release the pressure of the difficulties that they are facing. Unionism in universities and colleges is part of education development. When the Government bans student politics and student unionism, it means we are going backwards. It is using the reverse gear or dununa reverse similar to the characteristics of Benito Mussolini in the 1930s, who outlawed ...

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Machila: ... unionism in colleges. That is typical of dictatorship. So, when unionism is not allowed in colleges and universities, what do you expect? You expect riots and mischief by the students because they are not engaged by the Government of the day. In a civilised society, going by the situation which happened at UNZA recently, the hon. Minister of Higher Education should have resigned on moral grounds because all the causes of the riots were as a result of poor policies and poor management by the PF Government.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Machila: In this regard, I find it very difficult to support the amount allocated to the education sector in the Budget because it is too small.

 

Mr Speaker, another challenge that affects the education sector, apart from the low funding or Budget allocation, is the low level of compliance to the funds allocated in the Budget. For example, in the 2018 Budget, K3 million was budgeted for to take care of community schools. To date, only K500,000 has been released. Of this meagre amount, there has been a lot of embezzlement. It is very clear that the aim of the PF is to finish the Ministry of General Education through well-calculated embezzlement. In Magoye, for example, community schools like Mayuwa and Mabanga did not get a single ngwee from the 2017 Budget and 2018 Budget. Now, with the reduced allocation to the education sector, there is no hope for the people of Magoye.

 

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, ...

 

Hon. Government Ministers: Stop reading.

 

Mr Machila: ... the Government of the day, which is the PF, is renowned for a lot of embezzlement. There has been embezzlement in the education sector, Social Cash Transfer Scheme, health sector and, now, in the transport and communication sector. A lot of money has been gobbled, yet the hon. Minister of Finance, on page 1, paragraph 5 of the Budget Speech, indicated:

 

“Mr Speaker, as I present this Budget, I wish to emphasise that Zambia is and will remain a Christian nation whose values, principles and ethics in all aspects of life are anchored on our covenant with God. These values will always be mainstreamed in our policies and national development plans to guide our attitudes and aspirations.”

 

Mr Speaker, I strongly argue that this statement was misplaced. You cannot have a covenant with God when you are involved in embezzlement. If a certain word was not unparliamentary, I would have used it because it appears in some of the writings that relate to God.

 

Hon. Opposition Member: Which word?

 

Mr Machila: Being involved in embezzlement amounts to mocking the Christian doctrine. One of the principles of Christianity is not to embezzle. This principle dictates that thou shalt not collect what does not belong to you.

 

Mr Ngulube: Stop reading.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Member, speak through the Chair. I am looking at you and I can see when you refer to your notes. Just concentrate on your debate.

 

You may continue.

 

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I thank you. The Christian doctrine has certain principles which clearly state that you shall not harvest where you did not sow. However, I am at pains because the PF Government believes in the theory and doctrine of “ubomba mwibala alya mwibala”.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ngivi!

 

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, this means getting pecuniary advantage of a position held. As a result, it has become well-known that every ministry is involved in some form of embezzlement scandal because ubomba mwibala alya mwibala has become a national policy under the PF Government.

 

Hon. Government Member: Question!

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Mr Nkombo: Ikaleni mwibala!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member debating should continue. The House is aware that I said I would not allow any points of order.

 

You may continue.

 

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, there is no need to panic. The embezzlement at the Ministry of Higher Education is in the public domain. The same applies to the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare, the Ministry of Transport and Communication, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources, ...

 

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Machila: Ubomba mwibala alya mwibala.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Take your seat, hon. Member.

 

Mr Machila resumed his seat.

 

Ms Kapata remained standing.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, take your seat.

 

Mr Nkombo: Ikalenifye mwibala.

 

Ms Kapata resumed her seat.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I hope you will, ...

 

Ms Kapata interjected.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

 

Hon. Member on the Floor, if you want to avoid disturbances from my right, you should speak through the Chair. If you stand to debate points, the hon. Members on the right will keep quiet. Similarly, when an hon. Member on the right stands up to debate with points, the left also keeps quiet. Therefore, depending on the route you take when debating, you either attract a lot of disturbances or your debate will be without disturbances. So, debate through the Chair.

 

Before you continue, I have been communicated to and have been informed that there is no quorum. I will ask the Clerk to ring the bell.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ba PF! Where are they?

 

Mr Nkombo: Look at Mwibala.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1205 hours until 1206 hours.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: We now have a quorum.

 

You may continue, hon. Member.

 

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I will not take much of your time. In summarising, I want to say that the PF Government will go down in history ...

 

Mr Chitotela crossed the Floor.

 

Mr Ngulube: Order, Hon. Chitotela!

 

Mr Machila: ... for embezzlement and for the doctrine of “ubomba mwibala alya mwibala.”

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mulunda (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I would like to make a few comments on the Budget that was presented to this House by the hon. Minister of Finance. I have a few reservations and questions from the people in my constituency. Since I came to this House, this is the third Budget I am participating in approving, ...

 

Mr Ngulube interjected.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Tutwa Ngulube, leave the House.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube: Thank you.

 

Mr Ngulube left the Assembly Chamber.

 

Mr Mulunda: ... and the people of Siavonga Parliamentary Constituency are very worried because they expect something to be done in the constituency from every Budget. To date, the people of Siavonga have not seen anything. I will justify what I am saying as I go on.

 

Mr Speaker, in terms of township roads, the Government has been promising the people of Siavonga township roads from 2013 yet, to date, nothing has been done. I am sure that almost everyone in this House has been to Siavonga and they have seen the state of the roads. The hon. Minister responsible for infrastructure development drives on those roads, but nothing is being done about them. The people of Siavonga have sent me to inform this House that they need the roads to be worked on. They have waited for almost five years for the township roads to be worked on. The Government has not done anything.

 

Mr Speaker, agriculture thrives where there are good roads. When we do not have good feeder roads, we cannot get anything. Without good feeder roads, it is impossible to deliver agricultural inputs. Farmers are also not able to transport their produce to various places within the constituencies. That has been a problem. Like I have said, the Government has borrowed money, but this money has never reached Siavonga. It just ends up in Lusaka.

 

Sir, if one went to Siavonga, he/she would not see a modern hospital, a modern harbour, a modern bus station or a youth skills training centre. None of this infrastructure is in Siavonga. The people of Siavonga expect the Government to put up all the infrastructure because the purpose of this House is to ensure that each corner of this country receives part of the national cake.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mulunda: One of our roles, as hon. Members in this House, according to Article 63(2)(a) of the Constitution, is to ensure that the cake is distributed equally, but it has not reached my constituency. That is my worry. For two years, Budgets have gone by without me receiving anything. I have difficulty believing and trusting that this time around, something will come to Siavonga.

 

Mr Speaker, Siavonga has two manufacturing feed plants, but it is a hustle for one to get to them because there are no roads. His Excellency the President commissioned the plants, but there are no roads to date, and the people of Siavonga have sent me to ask the Government what plans it has to develop the feeder roads.

 

Sir, in relation to the agriculture sector, as you may be aware, Siavonga does not produce a lot of crops because of the climate. However, the people of Siavonga do have not a market for the little they produce. The Electronic (e)-Voucher system that was introduced by the Government has affected the farmers in Siavonga very much. People sold their goats and cattle so that they could be able to deposit the K400 into the banks in order to receive their agricultural inputs. Alas, the Government got the money, but  has not delivered the inputs. You can see how uncaring this Government is.

 

Mr Nkombo: They embezzled!

 

Mr Mulunda: The Government got the money from the farmers, but the farmers did not get their agricultural inputs. At the end of the day, the farmers are unable to do anything. However, even when those who managed to access the agricultural inputs managed to produce some crops, the Government said it could not buy their produce.

 

Mr Speaker, the farmer has no money. He goes out of his way to sell whatever he has to raise money for the deposit. At the end of the day, he gets a few inputs and grows crops but, then, the Government comes around and reduces the price of maize. Is that being a caring Government? This Government came into power on the pretext of being pro-poor, but is that the case?

 

Mr Nkombo: Pretext means pretenders!

 

Mr Mulunda: Actually, the Government is getting money out of peoples’ pockets instead of putting money in peoples’ pockets.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Subulwa: Question!

 

Mr Mulunda: I will justify why I am saying this.

 

Sir, if you went to the Department of Agriculture in Siavonga today, you would not find transport. When officers want to monitor what is happening in the constituency or the district, they have to arrange their own transport. Can you imagine? Even the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries does not have transport. The extension offices do not have motorbikes or housing, yet the Government has a newly introduced slogan that it loves very much which say, “no one should be left behind”. Are we on the same page? Is the Government telling me that even if we do not have all those facilities, we are on the same page? Have we not been left behind?

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Tambatamba: UPND!

 

Mr Mulunda: The only Government which will bring sanity, peace and order is the United Party for National Development (UPND) Government.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mulunda: How will the PF be remembered? It will be remembered for not being orderly in doing things.

 

Sir, if students are demonstrating on the street, get them off the street, put them back in school and, then, leave. That is being professional and orderly. However, if you follow them and teargas them in their rooms, where do you expect them to go? Do you want them to come out so that you can shoot them down?

 

Mr Speaker, it now makes sense why the sector for the hon. Minister over there (pointing at Hon. Kampyongo) has received a lot of money. He wants to ensure that he teargases everyone around. Is that development? Is that what you call development?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mulunda: Mr Speaker, I am almost concluding –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, when you debate in that fashion, you will attract points of order.

 

Mr Speaker, the PF Government started about six projects in 2015 and 2016 but, to date, the police station, the administration block and the housing units have been abandoned. How can somebody stand up and tell me that we have not been left behind? We have been left behind. Like my colleague said, this money does not belong to anybody. This is the people’s money and it should go to every part of this country.

 

Mr Speaker, in terms of transport, one hon. Member was praising the Government because he received a sea bus in Samfya. That boat was in Mongu. Then, it went to Siavonga, on paper, and then found itself in Chinsali. Is that not leaving us behind?

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Mukosa: On a point of order, Sir!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mulunda: It actually found itself in Chilubi.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you can see the hon. Member for Chinsali is already standing because he has not seen that boat you are talking about.

 

Mr Mulunda: I withdraw the statement. It is actually on Chilubi Island.

 

Sir, I have been speaking about water transport for the lake in Siavonga. The hon. Minister assured me that there was a boat coming from Mongu. Before I could see that boat, I was told it was on Chilubi Island, somewhere on the other part of the country. The PF should not create an animal farm. All animals should be equal.

 

Ms Subulwa: Where?

 

Mr Siwanzi: Is it not in Zambia?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mulunda: Even if those who are passing running commentaries went to Nakonde, they would see that it is a like a bush. There are no roads and they are here.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Siwanzi: On a point of order, Sir!

 

Mr Mulunda: How does the PF want to be remembered?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Nakonde, take your seat.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mulunda: In conclusion –

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, concentrate on what you prepared to debate.

 

Mr Mulunda: In conclusion, Mr Speaker, how does the PF Government want to be remembered because it is leaving office in 2021?

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kintu (Solwezi East): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Budget presented to this House by the hon. Minister of Finance on behalf of the people of Mushindamo.

 

Sir, before I begin my debate, I want to pay tribute and render my condolences, on behalf of the people of Mushindamo, to our late hon. Member of Parliament, Mr Mwene, who was tragically killed in a car crash. I also want to pay tribute and pass my condolences to the fourth year student by the name of Vespers who was killed at the University of Zambia (UNZA). May their souls rest in peace.

 

Mr Speaker, stakeholders and experts have analysed the Budget and given their opinions. So, I will not go into much detail. According to expert opinion, this Budget is not progressive. Why is that so? It is because growth at 4 per cent will not be attainable. Why are they saying this? The Budget does not allocate resources to productive areas which are agriculture, manufacturing and extractive industries. These are the productive areas. Much of the resources in this Budget will go towards debt servicing.

 

Mr Speaker, the percentage for debt servicing and other obligations is about 36 per cent of the Budget. More than 50 per cent of the Budget will go towards salaries and wages for the Public Service. Only 13 to 15 per cent will go to social services.

 

Mr Speaker, since there are no resources in this Budget, specifically to stimulate growth in the economy, it will never create jobs at all.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kintu: Mr Speaker, one of the experts, who has given advice to this Government on the 2019 Budget, is the President of the United Party for National Development (UPND), Mr Hakainde Hichilema.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kintu: He is on record as having told the Government where the resources should be concentrated so that it begins to stimulate the economy and jobs can be created.

 

Ms Kapata: The President with a small ‘p’. Bamwine ekobaba, iwe!

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Kintu: Mr Speaker, farmers, through the Zambia National Framers’ Union (ZNFU), have given their advice. They have said that since the Government has not allocated so much and is even reducing the allocation to the agriculture sector, it is actually killing the industry.

 

Sir, the Zambia Centre for Accountancy Studies (ZCAS) has also given expert opinion pertaining to the same.

 

Mr Speaker, let me go back and quote what His Excellency the President said when he came to this House.

 

Hon. PF Member: Which President?

 

Mr Kintu: The President of the Republic, Mr Lungu.

 

Hon PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kintu: Let me quote what he said on page 26 on reducing developmental inequalities. He said:

 

“Our country has disturbing statistics on inequality. This situation challenges us to double our efforts to bridge the inequality gap.

 

 “Continuation of implementation of necessary policy interventions in the critical sectors of education, health, agriculture, energy, communications, water, sanitation, roads ...”

 

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President has the statistics which are telling him critical areas in which to invest. However, the percentage of the Budget that is proposed to go into critical areas will not reverse or tackle any of these critical sectors that he has mentioned. What type of budgeting is this? What should we expect from a Budget where resources are not allocated to critical sectors?

 

Mr Speaker, I will debate this Budget in relation to the inequalities obtaining in Solwezi East Constituency which His Excellency the President, Mr Lungu, described as disturbing statistics.

 

Mr Speaker, let us look at the health sector in Mushindamo, which is now a full-fledged District. It does not have any Government infrastructure to date. This district is supposed to have a district hospital. We are not supposed to remind the Government about the need for a district hospital. I am sure it will not be catered for, considering the resources that have been allocated to the sector in this Budget.

 

Mr Speaker, we want health posts as well. We have been promised health posts in Luamfula in Mushindamo District, but we are still waiting and this is now October. When rains start, accessibility is impossible in Luamfula. We were promised health posts, but are yet to see when they will be put up.

 

Mr Speaker, maternal, neo-natal and infant mortality rates in our district are high. Why is it so? It is because of the distances between health facilities and the settlements were people live. People have to travel long distances and, in many cases, we have lost mothers or they have given birth to still born babies. This is one of the problems that we have.

 

Mr Speaker, many people in Musaka and Kikola areas in Mushindamo District seek treatment in the nearby Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) due to inadequate health infrastructure. Why should the people of Zambia be compelled to seek medical treatment in the DRC when they get sick? Why should it be like that? So, the Government ought to be serious when dealing with inequalities.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government should also pay attention because we have been told that it has projected to recruit 30,000 health personnel at all levels of health care before 2021. We are wondering because in the Budget that has been presented, we have not seen much pertaining to health workers’ recruitment and how many will be recruited.

 

Mr Speaker, the shortage of critical staff at St Dorothy Clinic, which is now being used as a referral centre, needs urgent attention. We expect the Government to deploy staff to this clinic so that it helps to alleviate the suffering of the people in Mushindamo District. We also need an ambulance.

 

Mr Speaker, we know that the Government procured some ambulances, but it has now been two years since the procurement. Where are the ambulances which were procured at outrageous amounts? We need ambulances.

 

Mr Speaker, the area of water and sanitation, which His Excellency the President touched on in his speech, is a problem, especially in rural areas.

 

Mr Speaker, before I conclude my debate, I want to talk about the Kipushi/Solwezi Road which is an economic road. As people of Mushindamo, we wonder why, in Lusaka and in Kabwata, in particular, roads which go nowhere are being tarred. These are social roads. We want this economic road in our district to be worked on. We pay tax. We are going towards the rainy season. So, when will this road be worked on?

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the National Budget Speech that was presented to this House.

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, just before you continue.

 

I am sure you can tell from the previous speaker that if an hon. Member stands up to bring out real points in the debate, the House will listen quietly. I just hope that the speakers that will follow will also concentrate on what they have prepared and ensure that we do not attract disturbances.

 

Hon. Member for Gwembe, you may continue.

 

Ms Chisangano: Mr Speaker, the National Budget is, indeed, a very important document for the citizens of Zambia. A good budget is supposed to show some signs of care for the needs of the people. As I debate, I have a question in my mind. How does the Budget take care of the people of Zambia, especially the vulnerable from rural areas?

 

Mr Speaker, I find it very hard to support this Budget. There are a number of reasons it is hard to do so. To start with, when you look at the health sector, its budget has not been increased, yet we are talking about fighting malnutrition. About 40 per cent of children in this country are malnourished. On the world map, this is a very bad indicator because it is like 50 per cent of children are malnourished. The picture it paints of Zambia out there is very sad. The budget has been reduced, yet we are fighting malnutrition.

 

The Ministry of Health and the National Food and Nutrition Commission are running a project to reduce stunting in fifteen districts. However, since the budget for the health sector has been reduced, how will the programme be scaled up so that the malnutrition levels are reduced? This is why I am finding it very hard to support the Budget.

 

Mr Speaker, the School Feeding Programme is meant for children who are still growing. However, when you look at the quality of the food that is distributed, it only comprises maize. Some children eat porridge while others eat samp. These foods are pure carbohydrates, but children need a mixture of nutrients for them to grow healthy. So, more money needs to be allocated to this programme.

 

Mr Speaker, when you look at the other area of the health sector, the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) is the biggest hospital in the country.  However, we see a lot of things when we go there. There are women all over, mats all over, there is no water and beddings in some wards, and there is no medicine. It is a sorry sight. Therefore, the health sector needs more money.

 

Mr Chabi: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Chisangano: Munyumbwe District Hospital was built in my constituency and it was officially opened in 2016 during the campaigns. The people of Gwembe Constituency were very happy when the hospital was built, but they are now very sad. Just after it was officially opened, the building developed cracks all over. How can a new hospital have cracks? This was followed by low voltage and reports were sent to the Ministry of Health. Since the hospital was officially opened in 2016, there is low voltage and services are not being provided to the people because of this. Women who deliver in the night suffer because there is no power. The doctor has to use light from his/her cellular phone to see how he/she is delivering a baby, yet this is a new hospital.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Chisangano: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health should do something. The health sector actually needs more money and that is why I said that it is very difficult for me to support the Budget.

 

My colleagues have talked about the health posts. When I came to this House, we were assured of health posts. Every day, we talk about health posts and this has now become a song. During the Question for Oral Answer Session, we ask about health posts and we have been informed, through ministerial statements that, health posts will be constructed soon, yet nothing is happening. We need to be told whether this programme has failed. We cannot keep hoping because the women are suffering. They walk long distances to access health facilities and we thought they would be assisted if health posts were built in our respective areas. However, this programme has now proved to be a failure.

 

Mr Speaker, the other issue that the Budget Speech touches on is the payment of retirees. Budgets have come and gone, but the retirees in Gwembe have not been paid. This has caused another problem, as one of my colleagues mentioned yesterday. The retirees still live in Government houses, thereby creating an accommodation shortage in Gwembe. They are not willing to vacate the houses because they are waiting for their money. So, the Government should see to it that the retirees are paid their dues.

 

As regards youth empowerment, it is clearly stated in the Budget Speech that the Government will provide skills training to 3,000 youths. Meanwhile, there are more than 4 million youths in Zambia. How will the Government single out the 3,000 youths out of more than 4 million youths? Already, this shows that those who are closer to the Government are the ones who will be catered for. The youths of Gwembe cannot see any hope in the training of earmarked for the 3,000 youths.

 

Sir, let me now talk about education. As has already been mentioned, the funding to this sector has been reduced, yet there are many challenges in rural areas. Schools are dilapidated and there are no teachers. A teacher cannot even go on leave because he/she is the only teacher at a particular school. There are no learning materials. School grants stopped a long time ago. If a child falls sick, the teacher has to use his/her money to take the child to seek medical attention. When there is no chalk or a flag, the teacher has to use his/her money to procure some. To mitigate any emergency that occurs, the teacher has to use his/her money. So, with the current Budget, there is no hope any time soon for Gwembe Constituency.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Chisangano: Really, there is nothing in this Budget. It is for this reason that even teachers from Gwembe are questioning what we have been approving because they do not see the fruits of my approving the National Budget in Parliament, as nothing goes to Gwembe.

 

Mr Speaker, a budget without dip tanks and dams for Gwembe Constituency is meaningless.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Chisangano: A budget without the completion of the Bottom Road is meaningless for the people of Gwembe.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Chisangano: Mr Speaker, a budget without empowerment for the youths and women of Gwembe is meaningless. A budget which does not include the tarring of the Chisekesi/Chipepo Road, where hundreds of people have died because of the number of accidents which happen from time to time, is meaningless for the people of Gwembe.

 

Sir, from a good budget, we need to see the dignity of our men and women of this land and marketeers who trade from the streets being preserved. Does this Budget have something for the men and women who are suffering out there? We want to see the preservation of the dignity of our rural women who trek to and from the hospital either for deliveries or treatment.

 

Mr Speaker, women from George Compound, Matero and Lusaka walk to the UTH everyday to visit their sick relatives. It is really very shameful. With the hike in fuel prices, we do not know whether the women will ever board a minibus to visit their sick relatives at the UTH.

 

Mr Speaker, we want the dignity of our teachers to be preserved. Teachers should be accommodated so that they can comfortably stay in very good houses. We also want the dignity of our school-going children to be preserved. They need better classrooms, teachers and everything found in urban schools.

 

Mr Speaker, we need the dignity of our women in this country to be preserved generally. The Government should provide health posts and water for women. It should also provide loans for them. The Government should not only single out the women who belong to the Patriotic Front (PF) because all are women of Zambia. If the Government wants to empower the youths, it must ensure to empower all the youths in Zambia without singling out those who belong to the PF or United Party for National Development (UPND). The Government should empower all the women in this country. The Government should take all the required facilities to the rural areas instead of just concentrating on Lusaka or the PF strongholds.

 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, we need a budget which clearly stands for the people of Zambia, whether one is PF or UPND. It should be a caring budget for all the people of this nation. My last words are that Dr Kenneth Kaunda was a good and very strong man, but there came a time when his own Ministers did not tell him the truth that things were not okay on the ground. Now, history seems to be repeating itself.

 

Ms Chisangano: Things are not okay on the ground.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Chisangano: People are complaining and they are saying that the economy is hard. Therefore, it is high time the hon. Ministers told His Excellency the President that really, things are not okay and that the UPND is coming in 2021.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!        

 

Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, may I also convey my condolences on the demise of our colleagues, Hon. Naluwa Mwene and Hon. Victoria Kalima, to both this House and their families.

 

Mr Speaker, the voice of Kasempa carries the message that the people of Kasempa can only subscribe to a budget that is focused on human development. As the United Party for National Development (UPND), we consider a budget a business plan. It being a business plan, its business is to, first and foremost, ensure that humanity is served. In this regard, social services are cardinal to that package of serving the human family.

 

Mr Speaker, in this august House, we have heard both the Patriotic Front (PF) and UPND, on your right and left, respectively, saying that the social sector has been neglected. Adequate funds have not been allocated in the National Budget to education which is supposed to be part of human development at the primary, secondary and tertiary levels. Irrespective of the fact that Kasempa became a district in 1902, it does not even have an artisanal college. There is completely nothing.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Since 1902?

 

Ms Tambatamba: Yes, since 1902. To date, it has not seen a college or tertiary education institution since its creation in 1902. How can you grow the human family to get to a point where it participates effectively in serving its communities without education? On behalf of the people of Kasempa, I am surprised that the focus on human development was relegated to Pillar Four instead of being the first in the hon. Minister of Finance’s Budget Address.

 

Secondly, Mr Speaker, in a normal society where the Government delivers social services to its people, a nation grows by industrialising. However, we are seeing something totally different in this country. The road to industrialisation has changed course and we are now focused on debt servicing. How did we get to a place, whereby instead of industrialising, we are still stuck in the same situation?

 

Mr Speaker, in previous presidential proclamations, we were told that we would throw away the hoe and industrialise. We were told that we would mechanise and all of us would have tractors. We are still stuck. We have changed course and the people have not even been reminded to keep or go back to look for the hoes that they threw away while waiting for tractors. Funds that were supposed to support industrialisation and mechanisation are now being taken to debt servicing. Again, I am saying that how did we get to a point where debt servicing became the core activity of our business plan? How did we get there?

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance ought to review this situation. I expected some resources to be allocated to strategic planning some kind of process to look at what we have done and where we went wrong to change course and end up somewhere else where the people of Kasempa did not expect.

 

Mr Speaker, the people of Kasempa are still expecting the Kasempa/Mumbwa Road to be constructed under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project.

 

Mr Speaker, the people of Kasempa are still waiting for the Government to construct the Kaoma/Kasempa Road, which is now a very economic road in the Southern African Development Community (SADC), as it will be used to ship copper from the new Copperbelt in the North-Western Province to Walvis Bay, saving transporters a distance of 500 km. They are waiting for this road because it will not only benefit them, but also the whole country, as the taxes that come from the mining companies go to the whole Zambia.

 

Mr Speaker, the people of Kasempa are still waiting for Kankolonkolo/Lufwanyama Road to be constructed to provide an easier gateway to the Copperbelt. They are also waiting for Nyoka Road, which is a feeder road, to be rehabilitated, as it is their lifeline because they use it to get their inputs. We can talk about the Social Cash Transfer Scheme and the Electronic (e)-Voucher system but, if that road is not rehabilitated, none of the service providers will be able to reach the people of Nyoka and neither will the people of Nyoka be able to reach the service providers.

 

Mr Speaker, one time, I asked one hon. Minister to imagine a situation like that which the Nkoya people find themselves in. They do not have a good road. It is not a road, but a track. Nyoka is 155 km away from the Central Business District (CDB). They do not have a telecommunication system, police service or credible health facility. Should they get sick, be attacked or should something go wrong, how will they ask for help? How can they be reached in order to be helped? They are waiting for this package of services I have mentioned so that they, too, are not left behind. However, the resources have been diverted to debt servicing.

 

Mr Speaker, the people of Kasempa survive on an economy which is focused on agriculture. Good feeder roads are a thing of the past. Most of them were probably graded in 1968. If they are lucky, one feeder road or two in Kasempa could have been graded in the early 1990s. Where is their allocation from the various previous Budgets? Their funds have found themselves going to debt servicing.

 

Mr Speaker, most of my colleagues have raised the issue of the paltry services in the education sector. Teachers do not even have chalk. The teachers in Kelongwa, Mukunashi, Mpungu, Ntete and Kamakuku cannot remember when they last received a grant to buy chalk, yet money has gone to debt servicing and other places where our colleagues claim to have taken development. However, the people of Kasempa have not benefitted from our resources. Why is their money going to debt servicing?

 

Mr Speaker, when budgeting, the PF Government has to remind itself that there is a management process. Time and again, I have talked about the Public Finance Management Act. This Act and other public finance management procedures and policies are thrown away once this House has approved the Budget. Spending becomes free for all for those who are at the table. Once this august House, which includes representatives from many constituencies from the north, east, west, south and the centre, has approved the Budget to be spent, people forget that there are procedures that need to be respected so that every part of this country benefits from the resources. Every household must benefit from the Budget. Even people living in the Kaimbwe Salt Pans need to benefit from the Budget. For that reason, the Ministry of Finance has to supervise the Budget implementation and ensure that stewardship is part of the whole process. Procurement processes are informed by various legislation and procedures that are being ignored.

 

Mr Speaker, gone are the days when we must continue ...

 

Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

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The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 16th October, 2018.

 

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