Friday, 6th July, 2018

Friday, 6^thJuly, 2018

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Chungu): Madam Speaker, I rise to give the House an idea of the business it will consider next week.

Madam, on Tuesday, 10^th July, 2018, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. That will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will, then, debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Parastatal Bodies on the Report of the Auditor-General.

Madam Speaker, on Wednesday, 11^th July, 2018, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. That will be followed by presentation of Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will, then, consider the Report of the Public Accounts Committee.

Madam, on Thursday, 12^th July, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. That will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Budget Committee on the Review of the Second Quarter Performance of the 2018 Budget for Selected Ministries and Provinces.

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 13^th July, 2018, the Business of the House will commence with Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. That will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the reports of the Committee on Local Government Accounts and the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

SUSPENSION OF ELECTRIC POWER SUPPLY TO ZESCO BY ELECTRICIDADE DE MOZAMBIQUE

306. Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central) asked the Minister of Energy:

why Electricidade de Mozambique has suspended the supply of electric power to ZESCO Limited;

how many megawatts were being imported by ZESCO Limited;

what the impact of the suspension of power supply on the Zambian electricity consumers is; and

what the way forward on the matter is.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Nkhuwa): Madam Speaker, in 2014 and 2016, Zambia experienced a severe drought that led to low water levels in our dams. That, in turn, led to the country experiencing a power deficit of more than 1,000 MW. As a result, the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) effected a stringent load-shedding regime in order to preserve water in the dams and avoid a complete shutdown of our generating plants. In an effort to enhance power supply in the country, mitigate the power deficit and keep the economy running, especially in the mining; small and medium enterprises (SMEs) and agriculture sectors, ZESCO procured emergency power imports.

Madam Speaker, the power import contract between Electricidade de Mozambique (EDM) and ZESCO expired in January, 2018. It was not suspended as reported by the media, but was merely not renewed by ZESCO because we had and still have sufficient water in the dams at Kariba North and Kafue Gorge power stations to generate enough electricity to meet the national demand following good rainfall in the 2017/2018 season.

Madam, ZESCO Limited contracted EDM to supply 150 MW of electricity over a two-year period starting from January, 2016, to January, 2018.

Madam, as the country has enough electricity to meet the national demand, the non-renewal of the supply contract has no impact on the Zambian consumer. You may wish to note that, currently, ZESCO is undertaking upgrading and maintenance works on its system. As a result, some consumers may experience disruptions in supply.

Madam Speaker, with the help of the Government, ZESCO Limited has been paying EDM for the power imports. However, as of 31^st May, 2018, it still had a debt of US$53 million, not the US$70 million reported in the media. ZESCO is working hard to liquidate the debt in the shortest possible time, and the two public utilities continue to enjoy good relations as they are actively engaged in collaborative projects and continue to have discussions on the dismantling of the current debts.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, your Government is heavily indebted and the US$53 million is just one of the many debts it has to service. When, exactly, will ZESCO pay Electricidade de Mozambique (EDM) the balance so that the reputation of being a bad debtor that the Government has locally does not extend to our bilateral co-operating partners like the Republic of Mozambique?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, a payment plan is in place and we are in the process of paying the money. The amount was very big, but we have been reducing it. The debt will be dismantled in due course. However, it is not possible to give a time frame for its liquidation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, why has the Government not paid the money despite President Edgar Lungu having contracted a US$500 million loan, illegitimately if I may add?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Ask your question, hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Mr Nkombo: He actually committed an impeachable offence. However, my interest is in knowing why our colleagues have not paid off the debt from the US$500 million loan that their boss, His Excellency President Edgar Lungu, signed for illegitimately, I repeat?

Mr Lusambo interjected.

Mr Nkombo: I ask this question because the money he signed for was tied to ZESCO, which owes EDM. Why do they have to wait and make a payment plan? We have a reputation to protect as Zambians.

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, what Hon. Nkombo is talking about is mere speculation because the Government has not signed for a US$500 million loan.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, given the answer by the hon. Minister, I have decided not to ask the question I intended to ask. Instead, I will make a follow-up on Hon. Nkombo’s question.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Hanjika!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Finance categorically state on the Floor of this House that the President of the Republic of Zambia never signed a guarantee on behalf oftheZambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) in the sum of US$500 million. Further, can she confirm that the Secretary to the Treasury and the President’s Special Assistant for Press and Public Relations were not telling the truth when they informed the nation to that effect. Can the hon. Minister be categorical.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Resume your seat so that I can provide guidance.

Mr Nkhuwa resumed his seat.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The reason we insist that hon. Members focus on the Principal Questions is so as not to digress. In your response, you must deal with the Question under discussion, which is the debt owed by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) to Electricidade de Moçambique(EDM). Restrict yourself to it. If there is any need for you to mention the loan that is being referred to, do so only to the extent that it relates to the liquidation of the debt. Otherwise, do not deal with the issue of the loan for which His Excellency the President is alleged to have signed. Focus on the Question.

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, thank you for that guidance to the House.

In line with your guidance, I will only say that the US$53 million debt is being dismantled by ZESCO. That is a bonus answer.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, does the US$500 million that was mentioned have anything to do with the debt owed to EDM?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Energy has no knowledge of the US$500 million. Perhaps, the hon. Minister of Finance knows about it. That is the ministry’s position.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chibanda (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for clearing the air. However, could he clarify whether the US$53 million debt will attract any interest.

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, the debt is not attracting any interest at all.

Mr Mwale: Mwaona ka?

Mr Nkhuwa: It is a commercial debt owed to EDM by ZESCO. EDM is the equivalent of ZESCO in Moçambique.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, at what rate per kWh was the power purchased from Moçambique? Further, at what rate was it sold here in Zambia? Did we make a profit or a loss on that transaction?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, we purchased the power at 14₡ per kWh and sold it to the mines at 8.4₡ per kWh and domestic consumers at 6.6₡ per kWh. From these figures, it is obviously that there was no profit made from the transaction. The power had to be subsidised by the Government because we were in a crisis. The emergency power was required to run the industry in the Republic of Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the debt amount mentioned in the media was not correct. Since this must be a Government of laws, upon reading about the incorrect figures of the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation’s (ZESCO’s) debt to Electricidade de Moçambique (EDM), what did the hon. Minister do about it? Why did the Government not give the correct information?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, these stories circulated on social media, and I do not think my ministry is ready to start responding to social media speculations. We will only answer to formal queries from the media. For example, if the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) or Prime TV had asked me a question on this issue, I would have given them the position of the Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Mwashingwele (Katuba): Madam Speaker, I am following up on the question asked by the hon. Member for Livingstone.

Madam, I am wondering why the Government subsidised the imported power it supplied to the mines at such a huge cost at the expense of the Zambians who were in need of that power.

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, in fact, the Government has done very well to move the tariffs to where they are. In the past, the mines were paying very low tariffs, about 4₡ per kWh, because they had signed some agreements with the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government when it was desperate to privatise the mines, but there were no willing buyers.

Mr Mwale: It is a Government agreement.

Mr Nkhuwa: As the people in office, we had to respect those agreements. However, in 2017, we were able to raise the tariffs for domestic consumers by 75 per cent and move the tariffs for mining companies from 4.8₡ per kWh to 8.4₡ per kWh.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhuwa: In January, 2018, the tariff was further raised to 9.3₡ per kWh.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam, our power generation capacity is 2,331 MW while the independent power producers generate 550 MW, giving us a total of 2,851 MW. Currently, during peak consumption hours, we only use 2,200 MW. With the good rainfall that we had, …

Ms Tambatamba: Answer the question.

Mr Nkhuwa: … we do not expect any power shortages. However, I must say that the power that we get from the independent power producers is slightly more expensive, averaging 10.5₡ per kWh. ZESCO also produces hydro power at about 5₡ per kWh. So, the average price is still a reasonable amount.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Madam Speaker, in the event that the water levels at our generation stations go down again, would we go back to Mozambique and enter into an agreement like the one we entered into last time?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, like I said earlier, we still enjoy good relations with EDM. So, we would certainly go back to discuss with it. We are even planning to have interconnectors in Mozambique so that we can migrate power. We are also putting up interconnectors in Tanzania and Kenya. We are putting up interconnectors around Zambia because, as you know, we are a land-linked country. So, we want to link ourselves to all the neighbouring countries so that we can supply them our excess power and they can also supply us when we are in trouble. We also have to have a power mix so that in case of a drought, we do not have a problem. We do not want to entirely depend on hydro power because that is what caused us problems in the past. That is why we are venturing into solar, wind, bio mass and coal power generation.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West): Madam Speaker, why did the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) suspend power supply to the mines three weeks ago, in particular Kalumbila Mine, a move that is costing the country US$19 million per month? Is it because of the suspension of the agreement with the Mozambican power utility company?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Energy, relate that question to the supply relationship between ZESCO and EDM.

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, as I stated earlier, Zambia has enough power. In fact, we have 650 MW of excess power and we are trying to find where to sell it. So, there is no connection between the two. In fact, EDM did not suspend power supply to Zambia. The contract just came to end because it was for a specified period.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga): Madam Speaker, indeed, we have a huge debt to pay to Mozambique. Is this the reason the Government is contemplating increasing electricity tariffs once more? Is it to clear this debt?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I do not know what the hon. Member is talking about because neither the ministry nor the Cabinet has discussed this subject.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, does the Government intend to increase electricity tariffs?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, were that the question, the answer would have been a very simple ‘No’. However, the hon. Member speculated on the possibility of there being a connection between the alleged intention to increase electricity tariffs and the debt owed to EDM. That is why I am saying we currently have no intentions of increasing electricity tariffs.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister seems to be evading questions. Maybe, Hon. Mabumba can help him.

Mr Mabumba: Ah!

Mr Ngulube: Question!

Mr Muchima: I want to repeat the question.

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: I want to repeat the question my colleague here (indicating Hon. Mwashingwele) asked.

Madam, why is the Government subsidising the power it sells to the mines? The ministry imports the power at 14₡ and sells it to the mines at 8₡ at the expense of the local people when the mines are making profits. That is the question.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Perhaps, the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i did not – Maybe, he was not in the House.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will repeat his earlier response to this question. I think he spent some time explaining this issue.

Mr Ngulube: Muchima was sleeping!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, what I said is that there are some development agreements that were signed a long time ago by the MMD Government …

Ms Mumbi Phiri: By himself!

Mr Nkhuwa: … and that we have to respect those agreements because they are binding on the Republic of Zambia.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkhuwa: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Madam Speaker, in responding to the question asked by the Leader of the Opposition in the House, the hon. Minister stated that he does not know about the loan contracted by the Government. He also suggested that the hon. Minister of Finance might know better. The House wants to know when he intends to liaise with the hon. Minister of Finance so that he can come back to the House to clear this matter.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I do not think that the hon. Minister should answer that. If the hon. Member wishes to have information on that issue, he will file in a question.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the Government is subsidising the mines, which are commercial entities. Those multinational corporations (MNCs) are here for business, but the poor Zambians are subsidising them for them to make profits. Worse still, we are not even able to tax them in order to benefit this country. The reason for that is that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government had entered into some agreements that have sort of restricted the current Government from reviewing the tariffs. However, the MMD has been history since 2011, seven years ago. This is 2018. Since we know that the agreements are disadvantaging the citizens of Zambia, what is this Government doing to review them so that Zambians can have a fair deal and stop incurring huge debts, which are affecting the performance of this economy?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, again, I will repeat myself because I adequately responded to a similar question.

Madam, I said that the mines used to pay very little, but we have gradually increased the tariff to 9.3₡ per kWh, and we shall keep raising the tariff. It is a process. Therefore, the Government is not sitting idly, but doing something about it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, we were told that the electricity imported from Mozambique was being produced by a generator on a ship. When this Government was entering into that contract, did it consider buying similar generators of its own to supply electricity? I am asking this question because all that was required was to buy and install the generators. In the process, the tariffs would have gone down and, should there be a drought again, the machines would still generate electricity for Zambia. Further, the evacuation fee, the amount paid to transport the electricity from Mozambique to Zambia would not apply. When this Government considers the amount of money spent on importing that electricity, was it not wiser, economically, to just buy the generators?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I think there is a mix-up of two different issues here. I think the hon. Member is now talking about the Karpowership, a ship that docked in Mozambique and supplied power to Zambia. That is different from EDM, which we are discussing now. EDM did not supply us power from generators, but from hydro power generation plants.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF), being a responsible Government, …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Malama: … does not govern based on social media reports. Does the minority party, the United Party for National Development (UPND), …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Dr Malama: … ever find time to visit the Ministry of Energy and its agencies to get the correct information instead of relying on uninspiring social media reports?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I must say that some two weeks ago, I was in Dundumwezi trying to give them power after fifty-four years of Independence.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, a few of our colleagues on the left have been to my office and engaged me here, at Parliament, on various issues. We have meetings where we discuss, one-to-one, and are able to resolve some issues. I was in Pemba, Dimbwe and Dundumwezi because the hon. Members for those areas engaged me. The Government of the Republic of Zambia, led by His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, is a Government for all. We do not want to leave anyone behind.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, if people tell me that they want power in their area, I will give it to them regardless of where they are.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, …

Mr Lusambo: Mazhandu!

Mr Ngulube: … firstly, I congratulate my brother, Hon. Bowman Lusambo, on wearing a cloak. He actually looks like he is in the British Parliament.

Laughter

Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, secondly, now that we have more than 600 MW of excess power, does the Government intend to revise the tariffs downwards? We were informed that the reason we raised the tariffs in two phases was that we needed to attain cost-reflectivity tariffs at a point when the Government was subsidising power too much. Does the Government intend to make power cheaper now that we have an excess of it?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I talked about the power we get from independent producers, which costs us an average of 10.5₡ per kWh and that we sell the power to domestic users at 6.6₡ per kWh. Therefore, it would not make business sense to lower the tariffs. However, we will engage the power producers. With more of them coming on the market, I am sure we can look at the possibility of bringing the price down, especially now that there is a need for emergency power. We are able to negotiate with the new independent power producers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kakubo (Kapiri Mposhi): Madam Speaker, I am not very clear on the issue of the agreements signed with the mines. While it has been established that there are agreements that were signed during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Administration, I still want to know the time frame of those agreements. When will they expire? In other words, when will the ministry be able to renegotiate the agreements so that the mines can pay competitive tariffs and help the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Limited?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I think the hon. Member should file in a question so that we can bring all the necessary information on the agreements signed by the MMD Administration and those that have been signed by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. At the moment, I do not have the information on when the agreements will expire.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, we risk misleading the country. I remember very well that the power we were importing was meant to make up for the supply deficit we had in the mining sector and it had a special tariff. Why is the hon. Minister misleading the nation by saying that the mines were paying 8₡ per kWh when they were paying a much higher tariff? Hon. Mabumba, some people and I visited Konkola Copper Mines(KCM), Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) and all the mines in the North-Western Province. Only Luanshya Copper Mines (LCM) refused. What tariff were the mines paying?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Energy, are you still consulting your colleague?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Are you done with the consultations?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, Hon. Dr Kambwili referred to Hon. Mabumba’s having been part of a delegation that visited some mines with him, but Hon. Mabumba has said that he does not know anything about that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhuwa: Therefore, the tariff that we were charging the mines is as I indicated earlier.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We have been dealing with this question for the last thirty-six minutes. We need to move on.

HIV/AIDS LEGAL FRAMEWORK

307. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Health:

what legal framework governs the fight against HIV/AIDS programmes in Zambia;

whether the current legal framework is sufficient to address the challenges in the fight against the HIV/AIDS pandemic;

if not, whether the Government has any plans to introduce legislation to strengthen the current legal framework; and

if so, when the plans will be implemented.

The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Madam Speaker, the legal framework that governs the administration of the fight against Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) programmes in Zambia, directly or indirectly, includes:

the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, Part II, Section 8(d), which mentions respect for human dignity, equity, social justice, equality and non-discrimination;

the National HIV/AIDS/STI/TB Council Act No. 10 of 2002, which establishes the National AIDS Council, whose key function is to co-ordinate and support the development, and monitoring and evaluation of a multi-sectoral national programme for preventing and combating the spread of HIV/AIDS, sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and tuberculosis (TB) in order to mitigate their personal, social and economic impacts. The programmes of the National AIDS Council form the National AIDS Strategic Framework (NASF), which ensures that no one is left behind. One of the guiding principles of the National AIDS Policy is that the human rights and dignity of all people, irrespective of their HIV status, should be respected, and stigmatisation and discrimination against people with HIV/AIDS must be eliminated; and

the Employment Act, Cap 268 of the Laws of Zambia, and the Industrial Relations Act, Cap 269, protect workers against discriminatory practices. The aforementioned laws clearly state:

"(a) the protective role of law outrightly protecting discrimination of persons with HIV/AIDS and not mere generalisation;

"(b) instrumental role of law requiring that the law takes up a more proactive approach in terms of legal framework; and

"(c) provide for the right to access to health care”

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left!

Dr Chilufya: Madam, the Ministry of Health has made efforts to respond to the HIV/AIDS epidemic by implementing the World Health Organisation (WHO) standards.

Madam Speaker, the current HIV/AIDS legal framework needs to be strengthened for it to adequately facilitate an effective response to HIV/AIDS. To that effect, the Cabinet has passed, in principle, the repeal and replacement of the National AIDS Council Act in the current session of this Parliament.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that there are plans to strengthen the current National AIDS Council Act. What weaknesses have been observed in the Act?

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, there are many weaknesses, including some legal rights that have been inadequately addressed in the current legislation. For example, we talk about people living with HIV/AIDS not having access to justice when their rights have been violated. Further, persons with disabilities access HIV/AIDS-related services more by chance than by design and on the basis of charity rather than human rights. All these issues need to be addressed through the Constitution of Zambia, which should provide for universal access to health services for all citizens. Some of the challenges relate to specific demographics, and we need to strengthen the law in order to adequately provide for them

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take questions from hon. Member for Chienge, the hon. Member for Livingstone and the hon. Member for Keembe.

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Health once informed this House that the Executive had decided to implement compulsory testing for Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) in all public health facilities, and I thought that a statutory instrument (SI) as part of the legal framework on the fight against HIV should have been issued by now. However, now, he is talking about human rights. What has happened to the compulsory HIV testing, which we were told was part of knowing who is HIV-positive as part of the efforts to stop patients from spreading HIV? Further, why has an SI not been issued? I am pretty sure there should have been one by now because he defended the idea very much.

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, first of all, I want to put the record straight that the policy for routine testing, counselling and treatment is not mandatory or compulsory. Further, the policy pronouncement does not require the backing of a statutory instrument (SI) because it merely relates to practice. We are on terra firma to make a policy pronouncement on how we are going to manage patients in our facilities.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Jere: Madam Speaker, the American Government has been helpful in the fight against Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS). There are special units in hospitals, Livingstone included, that deal with the disease. Now, there are assertions that the Americans want to pull out by September, 2018. What measures has the hon. Minister put in place to ensure that the special unit that is looking after our youths and ensuring adherence to anti-retroviral therapy (ART) continues even if the Americans pull out?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The principal Question is on the legal framework governing the fight against Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS).

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Madam Speaker, in line with part (b) of the Question, is there a process in place to criminalise the wilful transmission of Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) to others?

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, currently, there is no such law. However, as we strengthen the legal framework, we are consulting extensively, and all suggestions are welcome.

Thank you, Madam.

FRAUDULENT CERTIFICATES DETECTED IN 2016

308. Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe) asked the Minister of General Education:

how many fraudulent academic and professional certificates were detected by the Examinations Council of Zambia in 2016;

whether the Government has any plans to verify the academic and professional qualifications for all civil servants; and

what plans the Government has to deal with civil servants with fraudulent qualifications.

The Minister of General Education (Mr Mabumba): Madam Speaker, 258 fraudulent Grade 12 and General Certificate of Education (GCE) certificates were detected by the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ) in 2016.

Madam, the Government routinely verifies the academic and professional qualifications of civil servants. For the education sector, in particular, the verification is done at recruitment and through routine checks after deployment of teachers. This has been done for a long time in collaboration with the examination bodies and training institutions. The Teaching Council of Zambia (TCZ) also undertakes such verification.

Madam Speaker, when an investigation has been carried out and officers are found to be in possession of fraudulently obtained academic and professional qualifications, the officers are dismissed from the service in line with the laid-down disciplinary procedures for all Public Service workers.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa): Sir, I wish to take the hon. Minister back to 12^th December, 2017, when his predecessor stated on the Floor of this House that 743 teachers with fake qualifications had been discovered, that being in possession of fake qualifications was a criminal offence and that those found with fake qualifications would be handed over for prosecution. The hon. Minister is also aware that according to Section 309(2)(c)of the Penal Code, obtaining pecuniary advantage by false pretences is a criminal offence. Why has it taken so long for the culprits to be prosecuted? It is now almost eight months.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, part (a) of the Question was not specific to the issue Hon. Dr Chanda has raised, which involves the TCZ. In terms of the issue he has raised, which I am aware is already in public domain, as part of its operational mandate of verifying and registering teachers, the TCZ discovered over 700 teachers who had fraudulent qualifications. In that regard, my hon. Colleagues are aware that the Civil Service has procedures for disciplining civil servants. Since September, 2017, we have been subjecting the culprits, especially those in public schools, to the disciplinary process. Once we conclude that process, which we are almost doing, the culprits will be handed over to the respective investigative wings for prosecution. We, first, want to exhaust the disciplinary process, which is internal.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take questions from the hon. Member for Chienge, the hon. Member for Katombola, the hon. Member for Katuba, the hon. Member for Lukulu East and the hon. Member for Chimwemwe.

Mr Mwila: Madam Speaker, has the Government attached any time frame to the verification of the qualification of all serving civil servants, which is very important?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, in my answer to part (d) of the Question, I indicated that the verification and validation of the qualifications of civil servants is an on-going exercise in the Government of the Republic of Zambia. I also gave the specific example that in the Ministry of General Education, at the time we employ teachers, we conduct the validation exercise. There is no teacher who has been employed before the ECZ has validated his or her certificates. So, the exercise is continuous because, every year, the Government employs civil servants. Therefore, there cannot be any time frame attached to it.

Madam Speaker, maybe, the comfort I can give my hon. Colleague is that the disciplinary processes involving the teachers who were found with forged documents in the education sector will be concluded by, hopefully, next month so that the matter can be referred to the investigative wings.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mwila: Madam Speaker, my question is: Has Government attached any time frame to the verification of the professional and academic qualifications of serving teachers, those who are already employed, not those who are applying to get into the Civil Service?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, the answer I have given is that the exercise is an on-going process and that, in the education sector, the exercise is undertaken at the time a person joins the sector. So, I cannot put a time frame on it. Further, unfortunately, I am not able to competently talk about what happens in the other commissions.

Madam, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The question is on currently serving workers.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, by last year, the TCZ, the statutory body mandated to register and accredit teachers, verified the qualifications of almost 120,000 teachers who are on the payroll. So, in the education sector, the qualifications of 95 per cent of all the serving teachers have been validated. This is why during that process, 732 teachers who had fraudulent qualifications were identified. Therefore, the process is almost being concluded. We are only being hampered by the fact that some of the teachers are in private schools.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Katuta: Madam Speaker, …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to raise this point of order, which I consider very important for purposes of maintaining the dignity and decorum of the House, as it concerns the rule of the House that requires hon. Members and hon. Ministers to be factual in this House. It is a pity I am raising this point of order on my good friend, the hon. Minister of Local Government.

Madam, yesterday in the afternoon, in answering a question in respect of the graders or earth-moving equipment that had not been supplied, the Minister of Local Government, Hon. Mwale, told this House and the nation that the company that swindled many councils across this country was introduced to the hon. Members by hon. Members from the Southern Province and that some of the hon. Members from the Southern Province had acted as agents and may have been paid a commission. That statement has not sat very well with the hon. Members from the Southern Province who served in the last Parliament because our people are now saying, “Oh, no wonder the equipment was not delivered. It is because you got a commission”.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Was my good friend, the hon. Minister of Local Government, in order to mislead himself, this House, the nation and the world at large that hon. Members of Parliament from the Southern Province introduced Techmiya Commercials Limited to hon. Members of this House when he is aware, having been then Chairperson of a Committee that deliberated on this matter, the Public Accounts Committee, of which I also was and am still a member, that the people who brought the company in question were Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members of Parliament? In fact, the first constituencies to purchase the graders were Munali under Prof. Luo, Kanyama and Shiwang’andu.

Mr Katuta: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you are now debating your point of order, which I think you have raised. If you are done, allow the Chair to make a ruling.

Mr Mweetwa: Let me conclude, Madam.

Madam, was my good friend, the hon. Minister, in order to insinuate that hon. Members from the Southern Province introduced Techmiya Commercials Limited when he is aware that the people who brought the company were PF hon. Members, as evidenced by the fact that they were the first to order the equipment and that their orders were honoured by the company?

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: Subsequently, the PF hon. Members told the nation that the equipment had been acquired through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and the rest of the hon. Members got interested. Was he in order to drag hon. Members of Parliament from the Southern Province, innocent as we are – Look at me.

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: Was he in order to drag us into this PF transaction, which has ended up being a dirty one?

I need your serious ruling, Madam. As you can see, I am very innocent.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The ruling of the Chair is that, indeed, the hon. Minister of Local Government mentioned the involvement of some hon. Members of this House. For that reason, I direct that he issues a brief statement to this House next week, on Tuesday, to clarify the involvement of hon. Members of Parliament in the procurement of the earth-moving equipment.

That is the ruling of the Chair.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Katuta: Madam Speaker, the Question, including part (b), was directed to the hon. Minister of General Education, I supposed, because it is the duty of the Ministry of General Education and the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ) to verify the academic and professional qualifications of all civil servants. We have heard of some Permanent Secretaries (PSs) who have fake academic qualifications and have been disowned by some overseas universities from which they claim to have graduated. The hon. Minister is only talking about the teachers, but I would like to find out what the ECZ is doing about the civil servants, including some PSs and Directors, who have fake academic and professional qualifications.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I said that as far as the Government is concerned, the validation and verification of the qualification of teachers is an on-going process. Like my colleague has indicated, the ECZ has a responsibility to verify academic and professional qualifications. If, indeed, she knows Directors or Permanent Secretaries (PSs) who may have fake certificates, as a citizen, she has the duty to report to either the ECZ or another important Government institution called the Zambian Qualifications Authority (ZAQA). The ECZ deals mainly with academic and professional certificates for teacher education for which it is the certifying authority. For higher qualifications, ZAQA is responsible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Madam Speaker, does the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ) have sufficient tools and capacity to verify the Grade 12 School Certificates? I ask this question because it has come to light that many people, including politicians, are using fake, but authenticated documents. Can the hon. Minister clarify this issue.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, my colleagues would agree with me that the validation of school certificates became prominent in 2016 when the new Constitution was enacted. They will also agree with me that the ECZ was caught unawares. However, there is no politician who can claim that he or she went to the ECZ and that the ECZ failed to validate his or her certificates. For all those who contested elections in 2016, the ECZ rose to the challenge of validating their certificates.

Madam Speaker, I also wish to report to my hon. Colleagues that because of the process we went through in 2016, the ECZ has decided to start opening up centres. For example, it has opened a centre in Mpika and on the Copperbelt. Very soon, a centre will be opened in Mongu. This is part of the devolution of that process so that hon. Members of Parliament and other citizens can validate their qualifications within their vicinity. Furthermore, we want to introduce online verification. Wherever information and communication technology (ICT) platforms exist, a person will be able to verify his or her qualifications. These are the reforms we are implementing in response to the challenge we faced in 2016. Again, I challenge my colleague that if there are people, including politicians, that he thinks have forged documents, the ECZ, ZAQA and various other institutions remain open to receive reports on such cases. I think some cases of that nature have been dealt with by our competent courts in this country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Mwashingwele: Madam Speaker, if my memory serves me right, all tertiary institutions had boards of directors that verified the qualifications of all the students enrolled by their institutions. Has the ministry done away with those boards? Listening to the hon. Minister speak, it is like the Government is spending a lot of money on verifications. Do the boards in the learning institutions work with the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ)?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, learning institutions may have governing boards, but the boards may not have the legal mandate to undertake this activity. For example, if my qualifications were invalidated by an institution that has no legal mandate to do so, I would have the right to challenge that action. In Zambia, the only institutions mandated by law to carry out this activity are the ECZ for the Grade 12 Certificates and ZAQA. That is why, because we recognise that this process has a cost, we are decentralising it and making it available online. This way, we will contain public expenditure and save money.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Kalila: Madam Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

GWEMBE TONGA DEVELOPMENT PROJECT

309. Mr Mulunda (Siavonga) asked the Minister of Energy:

whether the Government has any plans to revive the Gwembe Tonga Development Project in the Gwembe Valley area;

why the project was discontinued;

whether the funds for the project are still available; and

if so, who is managing the funds.

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to complete the remaining scope of the Gwembe Tonga Development Project (GTDP). When the project was closed, the Government decided that each ministry would deal with the remaining scope of the project under its jurisdiction.

Madam, the following was the scope of the GTDP:

rehabilitation of the roads connecting all the four districts in which the project was being implemented (Bottom and Nkandanzovu roads);

development of water resources;

provision of technical assistance and supplies;

improvement of the health and educational infrastructure of the inhabitants; and

electrification of the lakeshore. The Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) was tasked to electrify the lakeshore area in the GTDP area. Some works have been executed on the above project. However, the packaging of the remaining works has been finalised, with an estimated implementation cost of US$90 million. The procurement of the engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) contractor to implement the project will be done by the end of the third quarter of 2018. It is anticipated that the project will be completed within twenty-four months after commencement of the EPC contract.

Madam, the GTDP came to an end when the financing and time allocated was exhausted and some specific tasks achieved.

Madam, there are no funds that were left at the close of the project. Therefore, the funds for the electrification of the lakeshore will have to be mobilised by ZESCO.

Madam, as already stated, the relevant Government ministries took over the remaining scope of the project and they will fund the implementation of the components under them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is aware that the project was intended to mitigate the suffering of the people of the Gwembe Valley who were displaced during the construction of the Kariba Dam. The Government and World Bank committed themselves to funding the project. However, currently, the people of the Gwembe Valley live in extreme poverty because of the Government’s and the World Bank’s failure to fund the project. What immediate measures is the Government putting in place to alleviate the suffering of the people of Gwembe, who were moved from arable land into mountainous areas where there is no water and road network?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I am aware that the project is meant to mitigate the suffering of the people who were displaced and that the Government is very committed to looking after those people well. However, the country currently has some financial constraints. Nevertheless, like I have said, by the third quarter of 2018, the EPC contractor will be in place, and I think that is not too long to wait. I know they have waited a long time, but we are prioritising the project.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mulunda (Siavonga): Madam Speaker, I am glad that the hon. Minister has indicated that the people of Siavonga have waited for too long for their area to be electrified. Like my leader has indicated, that was one of the things that were promised to the people of Siavonga. Is the hon. Minister aware that Siavonga is where power is generated, yet we just see it taken to different parts of this country? In the Eastern Province, it is connected even to grass-thatched houses while in the Southern Province there is no power. Is he also aware that even the connection fee for power is higher in Siavonga than in other parts of this country?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam, in terms of the connection fee, I think it varies from area to area. Some areas are mountainous, like we heard earlier. So, if one is to put up power lines there, the cost will be higher. The number of connections to be made also matters. So, there are many factors that one has to look into. Some places are swampy. So, the cost of putting up electricity infrastructure has many components that engineers take into consideration, and it is passed on to the consumers.

Madam, I am also aware that the Southern Province has been the hub of electricity generation in Zambia. However, I was in Dundumwezi Constituency, as I said in an earlier statement, and saw that there is still no electricity in that area fifty-four years after Independence. That is why we went to Dundumwezi to provide electricity to the people. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government is very committed to providing affordable electricity to everybody in Zambia.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Chonya (Kafue): Madam, I am interested in the education aspect. How many schools were intended to be constructed under the project? Further, how many have been built so far?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, are you able to provide that information?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, no, I do not have that information on my fingertips.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Livune: Madam Speaker, who is in custody of the assets of the Gwembe Tonga Development Project?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I did not get him clearly. Could he repeat the question.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: He wants to know who the custodian of the assets of the project is.

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, various ministries took custody of the assets of the project related to the scope of works that fall under their jurisdiction.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Madam, the project has been under implementation for a long time. With specific reference to Gwembe Constituency, how many Government schools and clinics have benefited in terms of water and power supply, and rehabilitation of roads?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, that information can be availed to the hon. Member if she files in a Question. I do not have it on my fingertips.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Gwembe is encouraged to file in a Question.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Madam Speaker, this subject makes my heart bleed. It is very painful to be displaced for the construction of the Kariba Dam and, fifty-four years later, be still living in squalor and nobody is concerned about you. The hon. Minister has told us that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is very committed to alleviating the suffering of the people of the Gwembe Valley and those who migrated to Dundumwezi. He mentioned fifty-four years. I want to find out – This is reminiscent of the North-Western Province, which produces minerals and is the new Copperbelt of modern Zambia, but there is no development there. What does he think the problem has been? For fifty-four years, the people who paved the way for the construction of the dam in order that we may have electricity all the way to the mines on the Copperbelt and to rural areas away from where the electricity is generated.

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, about 50 per cent of Zambia’s electricity is consumed by the mining sector, which turns the wheels of Zambia’s economy. The supply of electricity is demand-driven. For example, in Shiwang’andu, 1 MW of power was installed. However, so far, only 25 per cent of the people there have been connected to the grid. So, we can provide electricity to the people, but they may not be able to connect to the grid. The mines require power. Similarly, we will take power where there are commercial activities.

Madam, indeed, fifty-four years is a long time. This is the seventh year of the PF being in power for areas to remain without electricity. That is why the PF Government, which has only been in power for seven years, has started connecting Dundumwezi to the national power grid under the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. So, we are working to sort out this problem in the Gwembe Valley and we will sort it out.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is talking about taking power to Dundumwezi. However, earlier, when responding to a question from the hon. Member for Siavonga, who wanted to know why the connection fees in his constituency and Dundumwezi were high, he said that the connection fees varied depending on the area. For example, he said that the connection fee charged in a mountainous area would be different from the one charged in a flat area. The hon. Minister also said that only a few people are connected to the power grid in Dundumwezi. That is because the connection fee is too high there. Given that the area is where the power is generated, is the Government not thinking of putting in place modalities for cushioning the high fees charged so that the people of Dundumwezi can connect to the power grid? If not, the Government will continue saying, “We took power there, but people are not using it”.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member for Mitete? Repeat it.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, according to the hon. Minister, the connection fee is higher in Siavonga because the area is mountainous. However, that place is the source of the electricity. So, are there any modalities being put in place to subsidise the consumers there?

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to do that. When I was in Dimbwe, we commissioned a grid there and the connection fee was supposed to be K1,500 per household. That amount was reduced to K250 for domestic users. For commercial users, the connection fee was initially pegged at K2,400, but we reduced it to K700. That was only possible because the cost will be subsidised by the Government. So, when we are ready for Dundumwezi and we see that the connection fees are too high, we will definitely take corrective steps.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mulunda: Madam, it makes me very sad to hear that the connection fees in areas other than where the power is produced is as low as K250 because I paid K2,800 for a household connection in the place where the power is produced. When that dam was being constructed, the Government did not look at the mountains. It just dispersed the people from a very good agricultural area on the banks of the Zambezi River where they had lived happily. Further, when it relocated them to the mountains, it did not tell them that it would not connect them to the power grid because it is expensive to do so in a mountainous area. In the hon. Minister’s understanding, is it fair to overcharge the people who were displaced from the area where the power is generated? Instead of charging K200 or K500 like in other areas, the Government is asking the people to pay K3,000. Is that fair? Is that the benefit that the Government promised the people when displacing them? It told them that good things would follow them after being displaced to another place.

Mr Nkhuwa: Madam Speaker, I think that the hon. Member is pushing an open door. As I have said, we shall consider the plight of the people of Siavonga.

I thank you, Madam.

RETRENCHMENT OF ZAMBIANS AT FIRST QUANTUM MINERALS

310. Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga)(on behalf of Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central)) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

whether the Government is aware that over 200 Zambian workers at First Quantum Minerals Limited (FQM) in Solwezi Central Parliamentary Constituency were declared redundant while expatriates were left in their positions; and

if so, what measures are being taken to protect Zambians workers at FQM and other mining companies, countrywide.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mrs Simukoko): Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the decision by First Quantum Mining Operations (FQMO) Limited to declare some staff under its Roads Department redundant following a reduction in the workload arising from the completion of contractual works. The development rendered the labour force unsustainable. So, in accordance with Section 26(b) of the Employment Act, Cap 268 of the Laws of Zambia, FQMO notified the ministry in Solwezi of its decision in a letter dated 12^th February, 2018. It also informed the workers’ representatives one month in advance, which provided an opportunity for consultations between the employer and the union. Since the affected workers were unionised, the Government allowed the unions to negotiate for a reduced number of workers to be laid off and measures to mitigate adverse effects on the affected workers. The process also allowed the parties to explore alternative employment for the affected workers.

Madam Speaker, initially, FQMO Limited had wanted to retrench about 200 workers, but the workers’ representatives negotiated for the number to be reduced to 120 skilled and unskilled workers, and for about eighty workers to be redeployed from Kansanshi to Kalumbila Mine. That notwithstanding, the retrenchment is still a very sad development because, to us, every employee matters because behind every employee are many dependants.

Madam, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, under the able leadership of His Excellency President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, is fully committed to the protection of Zambian workers in all sectors of the economy. To this effect, it has put in place a robust legal framework that fosters protection to even the most vulnerable of workers. For example, in 2015, the Government assented to Amendment Act No. 15 of 2015, which further galvanised the Patriotic Front (PF) Government’s resolve to, among other objectives, curb the rampant casualisation on the Zambian labour market. This piece of legislation also protects the workers’ contract of employment against termination without valid reasons. Further, the ministry has intensified work place labour inspections, including in all mining companies, to ensure effective enforcement of labour laws. To that effect, the Government procured about nineteen vehicles for labour inspection purposes and distributed them to field stations.

Madam Speaker, allow me to reiterate the Government’s commitment to addressing the challenges on the labour market, through sensitisation, worker education and social dialogue, as a means of promoting industrial harmony. The ministry is, therefore, committed to continuing the intensification of labour inspections across the country.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Dr Kopulande (Chembe): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the first bite on this important subject of labour and employment in our mining industry. I am encouraged by the hon. Minister’s statement that this Government considers every employee in every industry important because behind every employee are many dependent lives.

Madam Speaker, the situation in our country is that we are a mono-economy dominated by the mining industry. Unfortunately, the mining industry is totally foreign-owned and driven by the profit motive rather than a desire to contribute to the overall growth of the economy.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Dr Kopulande: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was putting the argument that, fifty-four years after Independence, our dominant economic sector, the mining industry, has, unfortunately, continued to be in foreign hands without any participation whatsoever of indigenous Zambians, and that the foreign owners of the companies are driven principally by the profit motive. Whatever they give to the community are crumbs falling off their tables. What plan does the Government have to enhance the participation of Zambians in the mining industry as a way of guaranteeing the security of jobs for Zambians? Our mineral resources were given to Zambians by God. Therefore, Zambians have the right to assert their ownership of the resources. Granted, there can be partnership with foreign investors, but Zambians must participate fully.

Madam Speaker, secondly –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: One question at a time.

Dr Kopulande: In addition –

Laughter

Dr Kopulande: Madam Speaker, related to the question.

Do we have any strategy to add value to our minerals as a way of creating more jobs for the Zambians being retrenched by the mining sector?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, the ownership of the mines is not a labour issue. So, I think my ministry is not in a position to answer that question.

As regards the workers in the mines, I think they are not only protected by the Government, but also by labour unions that look out for them. If there were any issues that they were uncomfortable with, they have been dealt with by the unions. However, if the unions and the employers fail to agree on any issue, our labour laws provide a procedure for resolving such grievances.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kabwe Central.

He is not in the House? The hon. Member for Choma Central may ask his question.

Mr Mweetwa(Choma Central): Madam, when business was suspended, I had an occasion to share with my learned brother, the hon. Member for Kabwe Central, the questions we needed to ask. So, I will amalgamate our thoughts.

The hon. Member for Kabwe Central and I came to the conclusion that we should ask this question –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are asking the question as the hon. Member for Choma Central.

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: Madam, the question I am asking arises from our debate.

Madam Speaker, lower taxes, more jobs and more money in people’s pockets ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: Question!

Hon. Opposition Member:“Question!” ya bani?

Mr Mweetwa: ... are what the people of Zambia were promised. Now, we are being told of 200 people being declared redundant. I am aware that the Patriotic Front (PF) has allowed the mining sector in this country to import many expatriates to do jobs that local people can do.

Mr Mung’andu: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: Therefore, when there are redundancies like these ones, the local people are the victims. What measures are being putting in place to reverse this bad behaviour of the Government?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, I think, as leaders, we are all aware or we need to be aware that there is a committee in the Ministry of Home Affairs that processes the applications of expatriate workers. Due diligence is done to ensure that only those with rare skills and expertise are employed. My ministry sits on that committee and makes recommendations. However, the final decision lies with the Ministry of Home Affairs.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, we have these challenges in the mining houses mainly because we have many general pieces of legislation that try to protect the labour force in the mines. Does the Government have any specific agreements with investors like Kansanshi Mine Plc to protect the labour force against redundancies? If it does, could the hon. Minister outline the salient features of a few of them for our people in the North-Western Province to be contented with what the Government is doing for them.

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, institutions are run by workers and owners of the businesses. There are times when the employer might want to declare people redundant, and that is allowed everywhere in the world. We were not familiar with it when we had State-owned institutions but, in liberalised economies, it is common. However, the Industrial Relations Act and the Employment Act have given guidelines on redundancies. So, employers cannot just wake up in the morning and declare people redundant. They have to give notice to the ministry. If the workers are unionised, they meet with the employer to go through the reasons for declaring the redundancies to determine their validity. If the reasons are not valid, the unions have to definitely reject them. Sometimes, the unions end up taking the employers to court. So, a lot takes place. In this vein, I appeal to all hon. Members of Parliament to take keen interest in understanding labour issues so that they can help their constituents to also understand them. I will discuss these issues with them.

Madam Speaker, when the issue goes to the ministry, if the employees are not unionised, the ministry mitigates. In doing so it asks for proof of the institution’s inability to maintain its staffing levels. If there is an agreement on that, there is a package paid to those declared redundant so that they do not just go empty handed. So, redundancies will continue to be there. They have been there not only in foreign-owned companies, but also in parastatal companies. We have heard of many people being declared redundant in parastatals. What is important is to understand and educate one another why certain things may take place. We cannot say that it will not continue because the economy is dynamic and many things change. Some workers may only be required for a specific situation and become redundant thereafter.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take questions from the hon. Members for Sesheke Central, Livingstone, Nkeyema, Mazabuka Central, Kanyama, Chilanga and Kanyama.

I urge all to be brief when they ask their questions so that we can save on time.

Mr Kufakwandi (Sesheke Central): Madam Speaker, it appears that each time there are redundancies in the mines or other private entities in the country, there is always an uproar about Zambians being victimised by being retrenched while expatriates have been left in employment. Are there any policy guidelines in place to help our companies, including the mines, on balancing redundancies when they have to be declared? It is not sufficient to say that the expatriates are more qualified because we know that there are expatriates who have the same qualifications as Zambians and are employed as general workers.

Mrs Simukoko: Madam, I thank the hon. Member for the question or, should I say, statement.

Madam, I explained that the Ministry of Home Affairs is in charge of the issuance of work permits and making sure that permits are only issued to people with skills that are in short supply in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, as regards the victimisation of workers, I made it clear that before any redundancy is declared, the employer writes to the Ministry of Labour and Social Security. If the workers are unionised, the unions will make sure that the process is as clear as possible. They also look at whatever management has put in place and why some employees will have to be let go. So, everything is analysed. The unions do not just sit and accept whatever they are told by the companies. After the unions do their part, the Ministry of Labour and Social Security also ensures that things are done in line with the law. We have laws in place.

So far, Madam Speaker, we have not received any notice of unfair redundancy, victimisation or of anyone being retrenched under unclear circumstances.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jere: Madam Speaker, in responding to the question asked by the hon. Member for Sesheke Central, the hon. Minister has stated that the company wrote to her ministry after which she engaged stakeholders. Were all conditions met before the workers were laid off?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, I think what I said is that notice has been given. I also said that the trade unions met to mitigate the redundancies so that instead of 200, only 120 workers were declared redundant, and this confirms what I have been saying. The mitigation must have been done in a meeting for the number to come down to 120. The report is yet to reach the ministry. However, if there are any grievances, they will be handled by the trade union or if the trade unions fail, by us.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Madam Speaker, the Government promised to create more jobs, but what we are seeing is the increased incidence of redundancies. I am sure that the hon. Minister is aware that, this week, SPAR Zambia Limited laid off people. How will the Government facilitate job creation when more people are being laid off? Further, the situation being as it is, why is the Government finding it difficult to repudiate its pronouncements on the creation of more jobs and facilitation of more money in our pockets?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Mbangweta for the question because he is a human resource practitioner. So, he declared many people redundant.

Laughter

Ms Mulenga: Balaba ba daddy.

Mrs Simukoko: I now answer the question.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

The hon. Member for Nkeyema is protected. His acts before he became an hon. Member of this House cannot follow him here. Therefore, you will deal with the question he has asked.

Mr Mutaba: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Apologise!

Mrs Simukoko: He is my friend.

Laughter

Mrs Simukoko: Some of you do not or cannot – Oh, sorry.

Ms Mulenga: She remembered how he used to fire people.

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, as I said earlier, redundancies will always be there. However, the Governments that came before the current one made sure that the workers were protected by passing laws. One of the laws, I think, is the Employment Act, No. 15, which makes it mandatory that before people are declared redundant, the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security be satisfied that the employer has no alternative but to let them go. We cannot keep workers in a work place if we cannot pay them salaries, for example. What we should be happy about is that we have laws in place and many processes involving many offices take place before people are declared redundant. In some countries, there are no laws to mitigate these problems. Employers just wake up and declare people redundant.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mazabuka Central is not in the House. The hon. Member for Kanyama can ask her question.

Ms E. Phiri (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the information she has given to the House. This caring Government is against casualisation. However, although we have labour unions in Zambia, most of them are compromised. I am speaking from experience.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Phiri: There were issues involving Safetech International Zambia and the G4S Security Company.

Madam, sometimes, the labour unions let the employers not take the employment contracts to the labour offices for attestation. As a result, the employee might be paid a little money every year and, after serving for forty years, it is taken that he or she can go with nothing on leaving employment. This is mostly done by our foreign-owned companies.

Madam Speaker, when Safetech International employees were declared redundant, they were told that their case was under consideration. However, to date, nothing has happened. In such cases, how does the ministry help the vulnerable employees who have laboured for a long time in foreign-owned companies that declare them redundant and leave them in unspeakable poverty?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam, firstly, I thank Hon. Ms Phiri for being one of the hon. Members who are very active in reporting labour issues to the ministry. That is the way it should be. We expect hon. Members to take keen interest in labour issues and report injustices to the ministry. I know that Kanyama Constituency is on the list of pending inspections. We will carry out inspections immediately the House adjourns sine die.

Madam Speaker, in 2015, a law was passed on when casualisation can be allowed and when it cannot be allowed. We have been everywhere to educate our people on why casualisation takes place and what they are supposed to do. However, due to unemployment in the country, from our observation, people are scared to report casualisation because they would rather be casual workers than be unemployed. Nonetheless, labour inspectors have been everywhere and wherever they have found casualisation, they have taken corrective measures. There have also been situations in which we went to work places on fact-finding missions just to see workers run away from us and refuse to give us the relevant information. So, we have had challenges as well.

Madam, labour unions are not present in all sectors but, where they are present, they have done their work in line with their mandate. Further, labour unions are not political parties. So, if the workers who put the unions in place find that the unions are not serving their interests effectively, they have the right to remove them and elect effective representatives. I think we talk about these things all the time because the working life is very short. So, if one allowed oneself to be led by inept leaders, one would definitely retire very miserably. So, in labour unions, there is a high leadership turnover. The workers have to use their unions and know what their unions are supposed to do. Even when the workers are not happy with what the unions have negotiated for them, they have the right to appeal to my ministry and take the matter further. We have ended up in the Supreme Court sometimes after realising that an employer did not honour some obligation to the employees. So the ladder is big.

Madam, we also have the challenges of people not reading. People do not read. So, they do not understand labour laws. They are not even bothered and would rather read insults on Joyce Nonde on social media. The whole country is aware when I am insulted. People should read things that add value to their lives.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Mrs Simukoko: So, we expect labour leaders to guide the workers. The workers also have an obligation to read. For every right, there is an obligation. The laws are there to protect our workers. The Government has done its part. What we need, is for Members of Parliament to help educate the workers in their areas.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CITY OF LUSAKA FOOTBALL CLUB (2000) PLC PROBLEMS

311. Mr C. M. Zulu (Luangeni) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development:

what the source of the problem at City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC, which has given rise to two camps, is;

why it has taken long to resolve the problem;

whether the Government has any plans to assist in resolving the problems; and

if so, when a solution will be found.

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development (Mr Mawere): Madam Speaker, the source of the problem at City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC (2000) PLC arose when the then sponsor and major shareholder, Forli Investment Limited, tried to dissolve the elected executive committee of the club for failing to account for funds raised from gate takings. The main shareholder was of the view that he was entitled to run the club while the elected executive committee recognised by the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) was also of the view that it was entitled to run the club. That caused the conflict between the elected executive committee and the committee formed by Forli Investment Limited. In view of these misunderstandings, the two committees insisted on operating independently.

Madam Speaker, the problem took long to resolve because each party insisted that it had the right to run the club. However, the problem has since been resolved. There is only one management team now. It is important to note that the problem was internal and mostly resulted from administrative and ownership of the club.

Madam, the Government was very active in helping to resolve the matter amicably.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. M. Zulu: Madam Speaker, a couple of months ago, I travelled all the way from Chipata to Katete to watch a football match between Hon. W. Banda’s Katete Rangers Football Club and City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC. As we waited for the match to start, we saw three teams warming up on the same pitch. We had spent money and some people had travelled all the way from Lusaka to watch the game. Since the hon. Minister says the problem has been resolved, which is the right team? I ask this question because two teams travelled from Lusaka to Katete.

Mr Mawere: Madam Speaker, indeed, there were two teams when the conflict arose. However, like I have indicated, the issue has been resolved. The two parties in conflict came together and agreed on one team. The constitution of FAZ allows it to register a club based on the formulation or establishment of the organisation. For example, some clubs are run by individuals, some are community-based while others are run by companies. In the case of City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC, it is a limited company that has a shareholding structure with Forli Investments Limited on the one side and the community on the other. In our quest to resolve the issue of the two camps, we got the leadership on the part of the community, which owns 41 per cent of the club, and Forli Investments Limited, which owns 51 per cent of the club, to agree to form an interim committee, which is now superintending over the team. All the players from the two camps are now under one team. Further, this year, we registered one team under City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will take questions from the hon. Member for Lukulu East, the hon. Member for Milenge, the hon. Member for Mitete, the hon. Member for Choma Central and the hon. Member for Milanzi.

Dr Kalila: Madam Speaker, I notice that the ownership structure at City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC is based on a business model. In an environment where funds from the Government are hard to come by, this is to be encouraged. The club is called “City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC (2000) PLC”, meaning that it is a public limited company. Based on what the hon. Minister has seen at City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC, does he think that the business model should be replicated in other clubs in the country or is the model showing signs of failure?

Mr Mawere: Madam Speaker, first of all, let me correct the impression that clubs are run by the Government. They are run either by individuals or interested groupings like companies, co-operatives or public limited companies, as is the case with City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC.

Madam, in promoting any other sport in Zambia, we encourage either partnerships or individuals to run the clubs. The business model is working well for us as a country in our quest to promote sports. There are a number of clubs that run on the business model, which is unique because while most clubs are run by either individuals or the community, it blends the two ownership approaches so that there is the community, on the one hand, and the investment company, on the other. The model has its own challenges that we have noticed and, going forward, we want to ensure that they do not affect the promotion of sport in Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Madam, the hon. Minister says that the problem at City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC was internal. However, it went beyond the internal scope because it affected the bigger society. There were two teams at the club, but the hon. Minister has said that there is now one team. I advise him to take keen interest in the club because the wrangles are still evident. Apart from the problem of the two teams, there was the problem of board membership. As the hon. Minister has rightly said, the community owns 41 per cent of the club while Forli Investments Limited owns 51 per cent. How have the two parties harmonised issues of board membership, which is necessary for harmony to prevail at the club?

Mr Mawere: Madam, initially, there was a board. However, when the conflict arose, some members thought it was biased towards the investor. So, another board led by a different chairperson was put in place to harmonise the problem. That is why we are comfortable to say that the problem has been resolved. The new board on the part of the community is very independent from Forli Investments Limited and we hope it will not be compromised as well.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutelo: Madam, I was comforted, but I lost my comfort when the hon. Minister mentioned that the club is being run by an interim committee. If the committee is working in an interim capacity at this stage, does he think the problem has really been resolved?

Mr Mawere: Madam Speaker, the problem has been resolved. The interim committee was instituted merely to facilitate the registration of the team with FAZ. FAZ has recognised the interim committee and given it 100 days in which to facilitate the registration. Thereafter, a substantive committee must be appointed. We hope that condition will be met.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr W. Banda (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, many teams incurred expenses in travelling to Lusaka to play City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC, but the games did not take place. Will those teams be refunded the wasted money?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister can give a bonus answer.

Mr Mawere: Madam Speaker, I do not think I am in a position to state whether the teams that travelled to Lusaka will be refunded. However, I know that when a team travels to play another, but the match does not take place due to a fault of the host team, normally, the points are awarded to the visiting team. Therefore, I hope that the teams that could not play their matches against City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC were awarded maximum points. After all, the objective of their travelling was to get maximum points. So, if they travelled and were given maximum points, they should be very happy to know that they went back with three points. Therefore, I do not think there is any need for any team to be refunded.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. M. Zulu: Madam Speaker, since City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC abrogated the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) Constitution, will the hon. Minister punish the club?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Luangeni, you were not audible. Please, speak up and ask your question again?

Mr C. M. Zulu repeated his question.

Mr Mawere: Madam, let me thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Luangeni for the follow-up questions. It shows that he is passionate about City of Lusaka Football Club (2000) PLC.

Madam, there was no abrogation of the FAZ Constitution at any time. The only thing that was at stake was that the club risked not being registered with FAZ. Had the wrangles continued, the club would not have been allowed to compete in FAZ leagues. That is why this Government took it upon itself to resolve the issue so that the club could meet the requirements for being registered with FAZ. That is how come you see the club still competing. The risk the club faced had it failed to register with FAZ was being relegated to a lower division. Had that happened, it would have been very difficult for the club to rise, and continue playing and promoting football in their facilities.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

_______

MOTION

THE REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON LEGAL AFFAIRS, HUMAN RIGHTS, NATIONAL GUIDANCE, GENDER MATTERS AND GOVERNANCE ON THE ADDRESS OF HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT, MR EDGAR CHAGWA LUNGU, ON THE PROGRESS MADE IN THE APPLICATION OF THE NATIONAL VALUES AND PRINCIPLES

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Human Rights, National Guidance, Gender Matters and Governance on the Address of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, on the Progress Made in the Application of the National Values and Principles, laid on the Table of this House on Wednesday, 27^th June, 2018.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Bulaya (Mpongwe): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Jere: Madam, the House will recall that pursuant to Articles 8, 9 and 86 of the Republican Constitution, the President of the Republic of Zambia addressed the National Assembly on 16^th March, 2018. The address touched on the following values and principles:

morality and ethics;

patriotism and national unity;

democracy and constitutionalism;

good governance and integrity;

human dignity, equality, social justice and non-discrimination; and

sustainable development.

Madam Speaker, according to the President, the main objective of the address was to serve as a platform for the nation to reflect on and debate the state of the nation with respect to the application of the National Values and Principles. In this regard, your Committee requested witnesses from State institutions to state:

what they were doing to actualise the national aspirations highlighted in the address;

what challenges they were experiencing, if any, in the actualisation process; and

suggestions on the way forward.

Madam, several non-State actors were requested to state whether the measures that were being implemented to actualise the aspirations highlighted in the President’s Address were adequate. In order to undertake a detailed analysis of His Excellency the President’s Address, your Committee called for both written and oral submissions from various stakeholders. Allow me to highlight a few salient points in your Committee’s report.

Madam Speaker, your Committee learnt that the Government has taken many steps to actualise the National Values and Principles in an effort to enhance morality and ethical behaviour in different sectors. Some of the interventions include the engagement of civil society organisations (CSOs) and traditional leaders to come up with modalities of unpacking the National Values and Principles and disseminating information about their importance to all categories of citizens in the country. The Government had also started using media platforms like the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) to broadcast programmes designed to educate the people about good moral behaviour. Your Committee welcomes these efforts and urges the Government to direct more energy towards addressing the root causes of the immoral and unethical behaviour that has increasingly plagued the country. Your Committee is of the view that no amount of legislation or number of codes of conduct will yield much if the mindset of our people does not change. It, therefore, calls upon the Government to cement the interventions being implemented by the Ministry of National Guidance and Religious Affairs, and to develop more interventions aimed at transformational change through community and organisational engagements.

Madam Speaker, on human dignity, equality, equity, social justice and non-discrimination, your Committee learnt of the various Government programmes being put in place to restore human dignity for the poorest in our country. The programmes include:

the building of houses, roads and other infrastructure;

the rolling out of the Rural Electrification Programme (REP);

the up-scaling of social cash transfer programmes;

the implementation of community development training programmes; and

the upgrading of shanty compounds to ease the suffering of rural communities.

Your Committee appreciates these programmes, but has two concerns to bring to the attention of the Government. The first is that there is inadequate funding to the noble programmes, which are aimed at eradicating poverty among our people. The second is that the programmes are implemented using a top-down approach. Your Committee, therefore, strongly urges the Government to mobilise enough resources to fund the programmes to completion, and to adopt a bottom-up approach. Members of the communities where the different programmes are being implemented should be consulted on their exact needs before implementation starts. It is folly to construct a road where people need schools more. With our limited resource envelop, it would be prudent for the Ministry of National Development and Planning to engage people before taking development to their areas.

Madam Speaker, your Committee agrees with the His Excellency the President that development should be inclusive of all people irrespective of their social status. In this regard, I passionately appeal to the Government to increase funding to the eradication of rural poverty. The good programmes that are being put in place will not amount to anything if they are not adequately funded.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion I thank you, and the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the support rendered to your Committee throughout the session. I also thank my colleagues on the Committee for their commendable dedication to duty. Lastly, I thank the stakeholders who provided both written and oral submissions to your Committee.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the Seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Bulaya: Now, Madam.

Mr Bulaya: Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to second the Motion, which has been ably moved by the Chairperson of your Committee. In seconding the Motion, I will highlight the aspects of the speech that relate to patriotism.

Madam, His Excellency the President stated the following on patriotism:

“Another way of demonstrating patriotism is through buying Zambian products. Let us strengthen the campaign on buying Zambian products. Let us aim to buy Zambian products. Let us be proud to buy Zambian products”.

Madam Speaker, your Committee was informed that the Government was taking the following interventions to promote patriotism, support the growth of local industries and encourage citizens to buy Zambian products:

the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, in partnership with the Zambia Association of Manufacturers (ZAM), is operationalising the “Proudly Zambian Campaign” whose implementation was launched on 14^th February, 2018. This was in an effort to stimulate production and consumption of quality locally produced goods and services with a view to contributing to sustained broad-based economic growth, wealth and employment creation and, ultimately, poverty reduction; and

the development of a local content strategy in order to foster business linkages in the growth sectors and promote linkages between micro, small and medium enterprises (MSMEs) and large enterprises, both local and foreign. The strategy will enhance the competitiveness of local firms and, thereafter, spur industrialisation and diversification.

Madam Speaker, the foregoing interventions entail more participation of local industries in the production and supply of goods and services. This means, therefore, that local producers who, hitherto, have had a reputation of failing to fulfil contractual obligations, especially in the physical infrastructure sector, need to pull up their socks. It is not uncommon in Zambia to hear of our local contractors abandoning construction sites after receiving a down payment. This trend is unpatriotic and should come to an end. So, as we encourage the rest of the citizens to be patriotic enough to buy Zambian products, the onus is also on local manufacturers and contractors to produce quality products that can eventually compete at regional and global levels. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government, as it endeavours to promote Zambian products, to impress upon the local producers of goods and services that they have an obligation to produce quality goods and services, failure to which they will face serious sanctions.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam, I thank the mover and the seconder of this Motion.

To begin with, I want to say that this is a new undertaking and that it, therefore, requires deeper reflection before one speaks out because the attainment of the National Values and Principles is a an on-going process, not a one-off activity. Therefore, I think that the beginning point is that this Committee needs to develop a toolkit for assessing our performance in the implementation of the National Values and Principles.

Madam Speaker, on page 3 of the report, it says the President of the Republic of Zambia expresses his concern over the high prevalence of teenage pregnancies, early and child marriages, alcoholism, misapplication of public funds and the abuse of social media. The mover mentioned the role that the media has to play and singled out the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) in the promotion of the National Values and Principles.

I think we have to also agree that it has been very difficult to legislate morality. Actually, I do not know of any country that has legislated morality. I think there is no such country because morals cannot be legislated. They can only be massaged and promoted through appealing to people’s consciences by, say, reference to religious texts like the Bible. It is on such things that morals are anchored. We are told that everyone has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Therefore, it is incumbent upon us to try to redeem ourselves from our shortcomings. In doing that, the best thing to do is aim to do unto others as we wish them to do unto us. This is where I want to start from in my debate, and I repeat that one should do unto others as one wishes them to do unto oneself.

Madam, in this country, there are issues of violence and general immorality tied to excessive drinking. Therefore, to try to deal with those things head on while ignoring the factors that cause them would be an exercise in futility. The Government needs to interrogate the cause of the high incidence of teenage pregnancies. Why are children falling pregnant? We know what is involved for one to become pregnant, but why is it rifer now than before? I want to put it to you that it is because an idle mind is the devil’s workshop. So, if teenagers do not go to school to learn, most likely, they will fall prey to these vices. So, what is the solution? The solution is that the Government must work hard to provide sufficient learning spaces for children and deliberately promote the education of girls so that they are kept as far away as possible from the vices that result from being idle.

Madam Speaker, the Government needs to work very hard on the issue of poverty. To just make pronouncements on the high prevalence of teenage pregnancies without dealing with the root cause will not do us any good. I want to put it you that poverty remains one of the major reasons for the incidence of teenage pregnancies. People cannot go into school because their parents cannot afford to pay the school fees. In cases in which the parents can afford, the children end up selling their bodies in order to achieve what they want, namely continuing in school. Some parents even encourage their teenage children to go out and find a way of earning money to pay school fees. In this regard, the Government should facilitate children’s access to affordable education. Otherwise, when teenagers fall pregnant, we lose potential doctors, nurses, teachers, lawyers and Members of Parliament. By virtue of their getting prematurely into parenthood, the young people face a bleak future.

Madam, another issue is alcoholism. Alcohol is right at the centre of Government regulations. Yesterday, I discussed with the hon. Minister of Local Government the unregulated sale of alcoholic beverages. It does not just stop there. When I was a young boy in Livingstone, I knew that bars only opened at a certain time, and had notices indicating that the right of admission was reserved and that people under a certain age were not allowed inside. I think the minimum age allowed was eighteen years. We do not see those things anymore because bars do not close, to begin with, especially here in Lusaka. So, there is no regulation on opening time. Bars just remain open twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week and 365 days a year. Again, that borders on the Government’s ability to lower people’s alcohol intake or to regulate the drinking hours.

Madam, Gen. Ian Khama, the former President of Botswana, I think he has now retired, put in place a law that required bars to close by a certain time. If people wanted to drink outside those hours, they could drink at home. Therein lies the solution to people drinking and driving, avoidable motor vehicle accidents, prostitution and, ultimately, alcoholism, which has made most of our youngsters end up in Chainama Mental Hospital. It can be done. We can say, “Okay, you know, I am told that there is a night club here, in Lusaka, which has –” If you go on Google, you will find that the best nightclub in Zambia is in Kalingalinga. It is called Mayela. That night club does not close. People walk out of it at 1000 hours. There is another very famous bar in Chilenje that also does not close.

Hon. Opposition Member: Is it the one owned by him?

Mr Nkombo: I do not know who owns it, but I am told it is owned by someone.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Madam, you cannot be Dracula and be head of a blood bank. On one hand, you are the one who is supposed to enforce the law –

Mr Livune: It is called Namakau.

Mr Nkombo: I did not say that.

Madam, on the one hand, you are supposed to enforce the law, on the other, you are busy participating in the same things to further your financial gain. You cannot be the one making pronouncements against alcoholism ...

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Nkombo: ... while associating yourself with the problem.

Mr Livune: East Point. That is right.

Mr Nkombo: Hear me out. You cannot. Morally, there is an imbalance. You cannot be the Dracula and head the blood bank. The blood will finish. So, we have to keep the key of the blood bank as far away as possible from Dracula. In other words, the moral of the story is that those who come to equity must come with clean hands, not where you are top among the people we call banwi balulwa in Tonga or those who are famous for alcohol intake.

Mr Kampyongo: Only two.

Mr Nkombo: Only two, yes.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: They are reminding me about the two shots I had. It was only two. I do not drink a whole bottle. However, let me move away from that.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You see, now, you are debating yourself and the issue of tots –

Mr Nkombo: The hon. Minister of Home Affairs is the one talking about the two shots I had two years ago.

Hon. Opposition Members: You were cold.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, it was at 0200 hours on a cold day like this one and we were passing a defective Constitution.

Madam, the President also mentioned, on page 10 of the report, the issue of democracy and constitutionalism. Now, democracy in Zambia – I want to put it to you, again, that one of the failures of this country is the lack of accommodation of people with divergent views on the part of the Patriotic Front (PF). The PF does not like us. It loathes us and has now started teaching us how to behave in the same manner. My appeal here, where democracy and constitutionalism are concerned – Hon. Minister of Religious Affairs and National Guidance, when your ministry was being established, some of us did not support it not because we are atheist, but because we knew that, as a human being, when you are in the midst of people who do not share your beliefs, trouble begins.

As regards the issue of the democratic space in this country, the Public Order Act, sits right in this pronouncement of the Head of State, in which he talks about democratisation. However, when I say, as a member of the United Party for National Development (UPND), I want to demonstrate by walking to State House carrying a placard saying, “Mr Edgar Lungu, I would like you to repair the Mazabuka/Turnpike Road”, I will be told that the security situation in this country is not conducive for doing that and that, therefore, I cannot demonstrate. You saw how four citizens, Mr Sean Tembo, the President of a political party, Mrs Laura Miti, Pilato and another colleague came here to petition you on the issue of the fire trucks tender. They were just acquitted last week. If you have to democratise, why should you take away our right to demonstrate? Again, it is the issue of giving Dracula the keys to the blood bank.

We have to live by our word, hon. Minister of Home Affairs. Do not go on the pulpit and say that Zambia is democratic because it is not.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: The institutions that support democracy, such as the police, which is under your eye, hon. Minister of Home Affairs – and I am saying this with the greatest respect to you and your office – posterity will judge you harshly. Zambians must be free to meet, associate, move, express themselves and follow their conscience. You cannot hate a man the way the PF hates us merely for belonging to the UPND. That is what we love; to belong to the UPND. Our colleagues love belonging to the PF. So, let us agree here and now that it is possible to achieve what is called non-harmonious peace. There should be peace even if it is not harmonious. Peace should prevail. We should provide space for each one to operate.

Madam, as I near the end of my debate, I want to drill in the point on electoral violence, which sits right in the face of morality, accommodation and doing to others what you prefer them to do to you. You may know that the youngsters in the PF who are beating us; the ones sponsored by our colleagues, half the time, are inebriated with alcohol. So, how do you discourage people from drinking alcohol, yet arm them with the same liquid because you want them to go and beat up your political opponents? It simply does not add up that a party that is supposed to be a parent party, the party in Government, which controls the instruments of power, should sink so low as to sponsor violence by children who have a not-so-bright future. Instead of giving them a hoe or teaching them welding, you give them junta,…

Mr Livune: That is right.

Hon. Opposition Member: Kantobo.

Mr Nkombo: … Kantobo, I am told, to go and beat up another person. It simply does not work.

Madam, I saw a video clip of how members of the UPND in Luapula Province were going to a meeting and PF boys in t-shirts written “Edgar Chagwa Lungu” stopped them on the road and said, “Kuno tamwayeko”, meaning, “You will not come here. You are not allowed to come and campaign”. I asked, “Is this Zambia?” This calls for deep reflection. The hon. Minister of Justice should really listen to what I am saying because this sits at the centre of his function, ...

Mr Livune: That is right. Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: ... and he is good at pointing out wrongs. He is also good at pointing out the right things. This time around, I think it would be fair for him to be able to condemn some actions, such as those of the people who wanted to cause a helicopter to crash in Shiwang’andu, ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … which sits right at the centre of the abuse of the democratic space that people must enjoy. Two helicopters, one containing Hon. Felix Mutati, who is seated here and is a witness –

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: In 2015, he was in a helicopter with Mrs Nalumango and the former First Lady, Mrs Maureen Mwanawasa, in Shiwang’andu Constituency when stones and other missiles were hurled at it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Nkombo: I want to appeal that the things that happened, especially given that the hon. Member for Shiwang’andu Constituency is the Minister of Home Affairs – My point is that he might or might not have had anything to do with the incident, ...

Mr Kampyongo: On a point or order, Madam.

Mr Nkombo: ... but I did not hear him condemn it. That is my point. I did not hear the hon. Minister condemn that act of wanting to –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister of Home Affairs!

Please, resume your seat.

Mr Kampyongo resumed his seat.

Mr Nkombo remained standing.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, resume your seat.

Mr Nkombo resumed his seat.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central is making reference to an incident that I think all of us are aware of.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The fact that your constituency is mentioned does not stop you from debating this matter. I urge you to debate. The issue being raised by the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central is violence. Therefore, prepare yourself to debate. This Motion is important for both sides of the House, and I urge all hon. Members to find time to read the report and contribute to this Motion.

Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, you may continue with your debate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Ema Speaker aba!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam, what I am saying is that the hon. Minister of Works and Supply, who is seated with us here today, would have been a cadaver had the pilot not been careful and tactful enough to escape that attack. My point is simply that those youngsters in Shiwang’andu should have been counselled by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs because they are his people. If that happened in Mazabuka Central, I would take it upon myself to publicly condemn it so that the public can stop associating us with some of these things. I would be the first to apologise. Let me give you the example of what happened in Moomba Constituency. When some youngsters assaulted a PF sympathiser there, the area hon. Member of Parliament, Mr Chaatila, exhibited honour by issuing a statement to condemn the incident and to apologise for it even though he was not the one who committed that act. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. So, all I am saying is that is where morality lies. You cannot pretend that all is well when the democratic space is being eaten up.

Madam Speaker, you will recall that when I began my debate, I said this concept of interrogating these issues and trying to bring ourselves closer is new to us. During tea break, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, the hon. Member of Parliament for Luanshya and I were chatting. If anyone saw us from a distance, we would appear to be darlings to one another. However, what is going on is that people are busy butchering one another because of the political divide. We must learn that everything has a shelf life, and the PF is not an exception.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, the Government should let people campaign and decide freely. As we go to the mayoral election in Lusaka, the Government must allow all to have their democratic space so that the next mayor can be elected legitimately. Then, no one will petition that they were beaten up and raise other issues.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Madam Speaker, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to add the voice of the good people of Choma Central and that of the United Party for National Development (UPND) to this very important Motion on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, let me begin my submission this morning by stating that whereas I do appreciate that it is important for the Head of State to update the nation on the progress that the nation is making in implementing the National Values and Principles, as we look at the Constitution, perhaps, this should not be a stand-alone provision dedicated − because the President comes here twice in a year to only talk about values and principles.

Mr Lubinda: How can you go to people who will hate you?

Mr Mweetwa: The President should use that window to talk about the progress in the economy. You cannot just talk about principles and values that you do not even adhere to. You should talk about the progress in the economy because that is why we are here. For morality, values and whatever else, we go to church. We are here to improve the lives of the people of Zambia.

Ms Siliya: It starts from the family, not the Church.

Mr Mweetwa: This should be looked at. We need an update from the Head of State on the performance of the economy and, perhaps, follow the South African practice so that we can query the fellow here.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. Lubinda and Hon. Kampyongo rose on points of order.

Hon. Government Member: Withdraw that!

Mr Mweetwa: The second point I would like to –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Resume your seats, hon. Ministers.

Mr Lubinda: That is immoral!

Ms Mulenga: Takwaba. President ati ‘fellow’?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member Choma Central, as an ordinary hon. Member, ...

Mr Syakalima: Is ‘fellow’ an insult?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... we expect you to give due respect to the Head of State.

Ms Siliya interjected.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: He is Head of State to whom you have sworn allegiance as hon. Members. Please, reflect on what I have said in guiding you.

Dr Chibanda: Withdraw that statement!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Withdraw that reference to the Head of State and continue with your debate.

Hon. Government Member: Apologise!

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for your guidance. I withdraw ...

Dr Malama: On a point of order.

Mr Mweetwa: ... the word “fellow”. It was in reference to a head of state, not President Lungu. I select my words very carefully ...

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: ... because he will not be there forever. President Lungu will not be President forever.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kanchibiya, resume your seat.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Are you rising on a point order on the Chair?

Ms Mulenga: On a very serious point of order.

Dr Malama: Not on the Chair, but on a very serious point of order.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I have already ruled. Please, resume your seat so that he can continue his debate.

Continue with your debate, hon. Member.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

I was just about to move to the second point I wish to bring to the attention of this House in terms of National Values and Principles is that of one of the elements mentioned thereunder, that is, the issue of safe-guarding ...

Mr Lubinda: How can he call a President ‘fellow’?

Mr Mweetwa: ... the National Anthem.

I would like to remind this House that from the time I came to this House in 2011 until 2016, there was an instrumental version of the National Anthem that used to play and everybody would find it easy to sing along. We can agree that the rhythm of the National Anthem that we play these days in mutilated. In Tonga, we say bakayimba chileya, which means that the people who sang it were off-key, ...

Mr Sing’ombe: Exactly.

Mr Mweetwa: ... thereby robbing the song of the emotions it used to evoke as one sang it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: They played it like some people sing at some funny gatherings that I do not want to mention. It is not properly sung and it has lost the original element that carried the passion of the nation. That is why, from the time we came back and you started playing it, I do not sing it.

Hon. Government Member: You are not patriotic.

Mr Mweetwa: That is not the original National Anthem, and I would propose that this matter be looked into. We want the original National Anthem, not the mutilated version that is played in this House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbangweta: Hammer!

Mr Mweetwa: Let me come to substantive issue. We are talking about National Values and Principles, and economic policies as provided for under Article 8 of the Constitution, which I think are State directives.

Madam Speaker, I sat and listened to President Lungu deliver his speech that day, which I think was a fairly good one. Are you happy? (Addressing hon. Members on the Frontbench).

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: It was a fairly good speech for all it contained, but I asked myself whether President Lungu and his Executive were talking about an ideal situation in a country somewhere or they were talking about the Zambia in which we live.

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: How come we had people come to this House to talk about morality and ethics when during the cholera outbreak, they were closing churches while leaving bars open? How is that possible when you want to lead people on the path of morality?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mweetwa: You close churches that preach morality to people, but open bars.

Dr Chilufya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, I have also seen an election campaign advertisement that has gone viral on social media involving a very prominent leader in the Executive, …

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Mweetwa: … an hon. Minister in an apparently drunken state. I think it is about the forthcoming mayoral elections.

Ms Mulenga: Wishibe shani?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, …

Mr Mweetwa: We are talking about morality.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... since you are making reference to one of the hon. Members of the Executive, are you able to substantiate that?

Mr Mweetwa: I am unable to substantiate my statement because I have left my phone, but I can rush to pick it up.

Mrs Simukoko: Yes, go and get it.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: In that case, you may not make reference to that because you cannot substantiate it.

You may continue with your debate.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, when we talk about morality, we should lead by example, as leaders. We cannot have leaders who come here to talk about morality when they have nothing to show for it.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Article 8 also talks about democracy and constitutionalism, and President Lungu came to update this House about that. I was shocked by ...

Mr Lufuma: Pombe yamoto

Mr Mweetwa: …the state of Zambia, as we know it today, and what appears to have been …

Ms Siliya: Point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mweetwa: … contained in the speech in that regard.

Ms Siliya: Point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubinda: Bafuna kumuphunzisa.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting, I am reluctant to allow points of order …

Ms Siliya: It is a point of procedure, not a point of order.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … from the Frontbench.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … because you will have an opportunity to debate the Motion.

Ms Siliya: No, not debate.

Madam First Deputy speaker: I also expect hon. Ministers to listen.

Ms Siliya: It is a point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The Chair and the three Clerks-at-the-Table …

Ms Siliya: Procedure, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … are paying attention to every word that is being said and it is our role to ensure that the hon. Members debate within the rules of the House. We must, at all times, avoid wasting our time on unnecessary points of order.

Ms Siliya: It is a point of procedure, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We should only rise on points of order if there are issues that are so compelling that the House cannot proceed without resolving them first. Therefore, hon. Ministers, allow the debate to flow …

Ms Siliya: Thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … so that we can conclude the business that is before us.

Ms Siliya: It is an important point of procedure.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Choma Central was on the Floor.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, I am comforted by the realisation that democracy entails listening to and tolerating ideas no matter how obnoxious they may sound in one’s ears. That is what democracy is all about. People should be able to listen to what they do not agree with the same way I listen to my colleagues even though there are so many things I do not agree on with them.

Madam Speaker, I had begun talking about democracy and constitutionalism in this country in terms of President Lungu’s update. Democracy hinges on a number of pillars, among them, free speech, the right of association, the right of assembly and the right of expression. These are some of the key tenets of democracy. I would like to report, in line with President Lungu – President Lungu reports, as quoted on page 3 of your Committee’s report, that morals are deteriorating further in this country as evidenced by, among other vices, increased misapplication or misappropriation of public funds. In agreeing with him, I would like to state that there is no progress that has been made in the promotion of the National Values and Principles contained in Article 8.

Madam Speaker, with regard to democracy, in this country, free speech has been stifled. It is risky to go to a radio station and speak facts about the Executive. To go and expose the corruption that is in the Government on radio or television is a big risk under the Administration of the Patriotic Front (PF).

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, we saw this coming when this Government just got into power and its members attacked the Bible Gospel Church in Africa (BIGOCA) in Matero. We thought those were just teething problems since our colleagues were just settling in, in the Government. It is seven years now and we are still experiencing the same problems. I have told many people that if I had been given another opportunity to choose between the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and the PF, I would have voted for the MMD because it was a far better party than this party that this country has been cursed with.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, let me now talk about media freedoms. How often now do we hear of journalists being beaten up? As a country, we had begun to enjoy the status of being leaders of democracy in the sub-region, but we are now a laughing stock because of the PF.

Madam Speaker, President Lungu talked about human dignity. Let me relate that to the right of association. The other week, there was a funeral in Choma where Zambia Police officers mounted various roadblocks and searched mourners without any warrants. Every vehicle that passed was stopped and searched. They also undressed people who were wearing red clothes. Whether they were Arsenal, Manchester United or Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) T-shirts, those wearing them, including women, were undressed.

Hon. UPND Members: Shame!

Mr Mweetwa: The police officers said that they had banned red and green colours at the funeral. The police searched and undressed women without caring whether they had something else to wear. So, if one did not have clothes to change into, one just went back home. So, how does one come here to talk about democracy and human dignity? These are realities. I called my friend, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, to inform him that was not right. I also told him that was not the Zambia we deserved to live in. Therefore, some of the hecklers who are speaking out of ignorance should know that this is the truth. It happened. The police went ahead and mutilated the human dignity that President Lungu talked about by disrespecting the traditional way of mourning somebody.

Madam Speaker, in the Southern Province, there is a way we mourn the dead, just like there are traditional ways of mourning the dead in the Eastern Province and the Western Province. We also have a culture and we mourn people according to that culture. That way, we send the dead off with dignity. However, in Choma, at the funeral of the late Mr Daniel Munkombwe, we had a situation in which people who had gone with traditional instruments to use for mourning were disarmed by the police, making us fail to mourn our fallen hero in the dignified manner in which we should have done.

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: Shame on the PF!

Mr Kampyongo: Question, iwe!

Mr Chama: Shame on you! You are drunk.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Choma Central, please, continue with your debate.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Defence is an elderly man. I am not going to ridicule him. However, he cannot say that I am drunk.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Continue with your debate.

Mr Mweetwa: I have a lot of respect for him. So, he should behave.

Ms Siliya: It is your people over there (indicating hon. UPND Members) who are saying you are drunk.

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

Mr Mweetwa: I was elected, not appointed or nominated like you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Choma Central, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … you risk having your debate curtailed. Please, proceed.

Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guidance.

Madam, I am still talking about democracy and constitutionalism in terms of Article 8 of the Constitution. Constitutionalism entails limited Government and rule according to the confines of the law. Yesterday, the hon. Minister of Transport and Communication magnanimously told this House that the ECL something, something number plate on some PF-branded vehicles is illegal. How can we talk about constitutionalism if an illegality has been perpetrated by the Ruling Party from 2016 to date? What constitutionalism are we talking about? What rule of law are we talking about when a certain class of citizens has been allowed to live above the law?

Madam Speaker, I think it is high time we said that the PF has lowered the bar of leadership in this country ...

Mr Chitotela: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: … and it is trying to drag all of us into that mediocre leadership. It is time we began to wrestle our country back, and bring back the leadership of integrity and dignity befitting this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Not jokes. That is why, as we go to vote in the upcoming mayoral and council chairmanship elections, the people of Zambia …

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Wishful thinking!

Mr Mweetwa: … should use those opportunities to send a signal, mama.

Laughter

Mr Nkhuwa: Nga twamisepa elyo mukeshiba!

Laughter

Mr Mweetwa: They should send a signal that the PF has failed this country.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member! You are now using this House to campaign.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Mweetwa: I am explaining the signal.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We have a report on the Floor.

Mr Mweetwa: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mama, signal!

Mr Mweetwa: Article 8, talks about democracy. So, as people go to vote, they should ensure that democracy is realised by giving the PF a signal. The people who were chased from the streets without a plan ‘B’ of how they are going to survive …

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: … are going to respond through the mayoral elections whether our colleagues say “Question!” or not.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Hollow!

Mr Lubinda: Shame!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: To ensure we have a mix, I will come back to the left later. For now, I will ask the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama Central to debate. Let us have a balance.

Hon. Members: He is not in the House.

Interruptions

Ms Katuta: Chienge!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: He is not …

Hon. Members: He is there. Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa (Kasama Central): I am here, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Sampa: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for according me this opportunity to add my voice, as I represent the wonderful people of Kasama Central, to the debate on the report that was availed to this great House. My debate will be streamlined to focus on human rights.

Madam, as a nation, I feel we need to move forward and really protect our people, especially given the fact that we missed out on a very important opportunity for our people to be represented in the Referendum that was held alongside the 2016 Tripartite Elections. It is, indeed, important that we are discussing issues of human rights in this House, especially given that there was a political party that did not want the Referendum to succeed.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa: For that party to, now, come and add its voice to the debate over this matter leaves much to be desired.

Madam Speaker, every day, we read in our papers about the increase of divorce cases in our country. Why? We need to have professionals and set up safety nets in order to delve deeper and find out exactly what is causing all these issues. Why have we lost out on this opportunity? If we had held a referendum, most of these issues would have been tackled so that, today, we would have been talking about a different matter.

Madam, the Demographic Health Surveys (DHSs) undertaken in 2001, 2002 and 2007 indicate that women between fifteen and forty-nine years are victims of serious physical violence. As of today, the age of women who are being violated has dropped to thirteen years. In Choma, there is a non-governmental organisation (NGO) called Musokotwane Compassion that rescues children from child marriages. The question is: Where are the children being taken? Are the standards of taking care of them met? If we had held a referendum, probably, we would have been talking about a different issue today.

Madam, the Northern Province has not been spared from having defilement cases. Defilement cases in Lukashya Constituency under Chieftainess Mumbi Mfumu have become a common crime of violence against our children. Between the 2011 and 2012, 1,339 cases were reported in 2011 by the Victim Support Unit (VSU). In 2012, the number had all but doubled to 2,369. Where are we, as leaders? This is the kind of responsibility we need to exhibit out of this House. It all starts with us, the leaders. How are we going to address issues of human rights when we deny our people the right to claim their rights in the first place?

Madam Speaker, the report that has been brought before you has raised quite a number of issues. I feel it is high time, the nation, particularly the leaders, rose above political party lines. We should not point fingers at one another and claim that only a certain political party can do this or that. If anything, we are all affected because our constituencies are recording these statistics.

Madam, too many cases of women being abused have been reported. At times, we wonder why the number of divorce cases has increased. Let us not forget what our women are passing through. From the information in the report that has been presented before this august House, it is clear that a number of the divorce cases in this country are a result of what our women have passed through. The young girls …

The First Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_______

The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 10^thJuly, 2018.

____________

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