Friday, 9^th December, 2016

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

_______

 

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

 

The Government Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

 

Sir, on Tuesday, 13^th December, 2016, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

 

(a)        Vote 20 – Loans and Investments, Ministry of Local Government;

 

(b)        Vote 29 – Ministry of Local Government;

 

(c)        Vote 68 – Ministry of Tourism and Arts;

 

(d)        Vote Head 46 – Ministry of Health;

 

(e)        Vote 07 – Office of the Auditor-General;

 

(f)         Vote 52 – Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection;

 

(g)        Vote 77 – Ministry of Defence;

 

(h)        Vote 14 – Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development;

 

(i)         Vote 85 – Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources; and

 

(j)         Vote 44 – Ministry of Labour and Social Security.

 

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 14^th December, 2016, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider a Private Member’s Motion entitled “Enact Legislation on Constituency Development Fund” to be moved by Mr D. Chisopa, hon. Member of Parliament for Mkushi South. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads:

 

(a)        Vote 06 – Civil Service Commission, Office of the President;

 

(b)        Vote 11 – Zambia Police, Ministry of Home Affairs;

 

(c)        Vote 15 – Ministry of Home Affairs;

 

(d)        Vote 16 – Drug Enforcement Commission;

 

(e)        Vote 36 – Zambia Correctional Service;

 

(f)         Vote 62 – Ministry of Energy;

 

(g)        Vote 76 – Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development;

 

(h)        Vote 78 – Zambia Intelligence Services, Office of the President;

 

(i)         Vote 51 – Ministry of Transport and Communication; and

 

(j)         Vote 64 – Ministry of Works and Supply.

 

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 15^th December, 2016, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will, then, resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

 

(a)        Vote 18 – Judiciary;

 

(b)        Vote 31 – Ministry of Justice;

 

(c)        Vote 89 – Ministry of Agriculture;

 

(d)        Vote 45 – Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare;

 

(e)        Vote 54 – Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development; and

 

(f)         Vote Head 88, 90-98 – Provinces.

 

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 16^th December, 2016, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads:

 

(a)        Vote 88, 90-98 – Provinces; and

 

(b)        Vote 99 – Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure.

 

Thereafter, the House will adjourn sine die.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

_______

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

FOOTBALL ASSOCIATION OF ZAMBIA EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE MEMBERS

 

48. Mr W. Banda (Milanzi) asked the Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development:

 

(a)        whether the Government was aware that there were wrangles amongst the Executive Committee Members of the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ), hence adversely affecting the country’s football activities, including preparations for hosting of the Under 20 Africa Cup of Nations Tournament in February, 2017;

 

(b)        if so, what the source of these wrangles was; and

 

(c)        what measures the Government had taken to resolve the wrangles.

 

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development (Mr Mawere): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to note that there are no wrangles at Football House.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mawere: However, the Government is aware of the administrative disciplinary actions going on at Football House. When the disciplinary measures were instituted, FAZ informed the Government, the National Sports Council of Zambia (NSCZ) and the Federation of International Football Associations (FIFA), as a matter of procedure.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member may also wish to note that the on-going disciplinary procedures have no bearing on the country’s football activities and the preparations for the Under 20 Africa Cup of Nations Tournament to be hosted in February, 2017.

 

Further, I also wish to assure the august House that preparations for the hosting of the Under 20 Africa Cup of Nations are on course.

 

Mr Speaker, the disciplinary procedures were instituted to deal with allegations relating to financial impropriety in line with the FAZ statutes. The Government’s position is to allow FAZ to conclude the matter administratively in line with its statutes.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mr W. Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the good response. However, I wish to find out from the hon. Minister if at all FIFA is not aware of the issues that I have raised concerning FAZ.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, FAZ wrote to FIFA and, in response, FIFA has advised that the matter be taken to the FAZ Council. So, FIFA is fully aware of the matter.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minster has said that there are no wrangles amongst the Executive Committee Members of the Football Association of Zambia, but at the same time he has also admitted that FIFA has directed that the matter be taken to FAZ Council. Now, how would you, hon. Minister, term that in your own understanding, are those not wrangles and what is the National Sports Council of Zambia (NSCZ), which is mandated to guide FAZ, doing in order to bring harmony to the sporting world.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, FAZ constituted disciplinary action against the Executive Committee Members in relation to financial irregularities. If you allow me, I can mention their names. These are FAZ Vice-President, Mr Kazala and a Committee Member, Mr Siwale.

 

Mr Speaker, so far, the FAZ Executive has submitted a report to the NSCZ for further disciplinary action. These are matters which are administrative, and it will be unfair to treat them as wrangles.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Ms Miti (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minster has said that there are no wrangles at Football Association of Zambia (FAZ). I wonder then why we keep getting conflicting statements from the FAZ Executive. If there was harmony, why are these conflicting statements continuing.

 

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister has been asked to confirm whether or not there are wrangles at FAZ and he has just responded. He is repeating himself that there are no wrangles, but only disciplinary matters.

 

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, who has stated that there are no wrangles at Football House. He said that there was mere disciplinary action which we perceived as wrangles. Are you, hon. Minister, in a position to inform the House and the nation whether the recent beating up of the FAZ President, Mr Kamanga, is connected to the perceived wrangles and your morality of recommending Mr Kalusha Bwalya to a FIFA position who was defeated in a local contest. Maybe, this is part of the reason there are these perceived wrangles.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, the perceived beating up of FAZ President by the hon. Member for…

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, are you referring to the alleged beating?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mawere: Yes, Mr Speaker, the alleged beating.

 

The alleged beating is a police case and it will be unfair for me to comment on the issue.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mawere: Just to clear the air, the alleged beating has no bearing on the disciplinary action being taken against the afore mentioned people.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker…

 

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, you can ask a question.

 

Hon. Member for Kaputa, please, continue.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to ask a follow-up question. If I got the hon. Minister’s response correctly, he indicated that the preparations for hosting the Under 20 Africa Cup of Nations (Afcon) Tournament in February, 2017 are underway and going on very well.

 

Mr Speaker, preparations of this nature take a lot of time and resources. February, 2017 is just around the corner hon. Minister. Can the people of Kaputa and I be convinced with the major preparatory plans FAZ and the Government have taken so far, to enable us be in tune with the hosting of this important tournament.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, you may have to help me. This is a supplementary question?

 

Mr Ng’onga: It is a follow-up question, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: To the question under discussion?

 

Mr Ng’onga: Yes, Sir.

 

The hon. Minister indicated that the preparations are underway.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for asking that question because it will enable me to add more meat to my answers.

 

Mr Speaker, as a country, we are ready to host the Under 20 Afcon next year. So far, our Under 20 National Team is in South Africa participating in the Council of Southern Africa Football Associations (COSAFA) Tournament and is doing very well. In our first game, we managed to beat Zimbabwe five goals to one.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, at the same time, we have attached the coach for the Senior National Team Coach to the Under 20 National Football Team to beef up the Technical Bench for us to prepare the Under 20 National Football Team to successfully participate in next year’s Afcon Tournament. We have also sent the Zambia Under 17 National Football Team to Angola to defend the African Union Sports Council Region Five Football Championships which are taking place in that country. All these are efforts to try and prepare for next year’s competition.

 

Mr Speaker, the Government has released some funds to enable us to deal with issues which were raised by the Confederation of African Football (CAF). Some of the issues which were raised relate to the furniture in the dressing rooms at the National Heroes Stadium. Committees have been constituted and are meeting regularly to prepare for next year’s tournament. I can safely say that we are ready to host the tournament.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, I note that from the time the new Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) Executive came into office, there has been a lot of talk. However, the hon. Minister has indicated that there are mere disciplinary measures which are being undertaken. Can the hon. Minister assure this House and the nation that football standards will not be affected by the disciplinary actions being taken from the time the new executive came into office?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, when there is a change of leadership in any environment, it is expected to experience some misunderstanding. Football House is no exception, as the executive are trying to find their feet. As the Government, we are there to guide them and ensure that they blend, as there are two camps. As you are aware, one camp was supporting the previous administration and the other was supporting the new administration.

 

Sir, I have noticed that some of our colleagues in here have vested interest in this –

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister …

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: … I do not think I will allow you to go that route …

 

Mr Mawere: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Speaker: Let me finish.

 

… because you risk debating your colleagues. I suppose you have ended your response.

 

Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, ask your question.

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker, mine is a point of order on a serious matter of urgency.

 

Mr Speaker: No. It is not possible.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker, not now, but when you give me another opportunity.

                                                                                    

Mr Speaker: You simply say that you have no question. That is all.

 

Mr Ngulube: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr A. C. Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I have no question. It was a point of order.

 

Mr C. M. Zulu (Luangeni): Mr Speaker, it seems that there are two camps at FAZ, and there are allegations that the hon. Minister favours one camp. Could he confirm that?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, there can never be two camps when democracy is at play and the councillors chose an executive.

 

The Patriotic Front (PF) Government believes in democracy, and the football fraternity constituted an executive which is respected. As such, we will only work with the committee which is legitimately in office.

 

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister assured the nation that there are no wrangles at Football House. During the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) elections, there were two camps. One camp was for Mr Kalusha Bwalya and the other for Mr Kamanga. As a result, there were some differences. The hon. Member for Choma Central asked about the morality of the hon. Minister appointing Mr Kalusha Bwalya to the Federation of International Football Associations (FIFA). I would like to find out if the two camps have reconciled.

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, in a nation where democracy is at play, we expect competition. In a competition, there are two or more competitors. In this case, we had two competitors, and one group emerged winner. As the Government, we are working with that group. Actually the Government did not recommend Mr Kalusha ‘Walya’. It was FAZ …

 

Hon. Government Members: Walya!            

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Mawere: … that recommended him. As far as we are concerned, we respect the decision which was taken by FAZ.

 

Thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question was: What role are you taking to reconcile the two groups that participated in the democratic competition?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, I did not want to answer it directly.

 

Mr Speaker: Well, I expect you to answer it directly.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, if FAZ recommended Mr Kalusha Bwalya, who was at the helm of the other group, to compete for a position at FIFA, it shows that the two groups had reconciled.

 

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, I would like to assure the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development that we, on the left side of the House, have no interest in the wrangles at the Football association of Zambia (FAZ). The hon. Minister said that it is not the Government which recommended Mr Kalusha Bwalya to take a position at FIFA, rather, it was FAZ. I would like to find out whether their support of FAZ’s recommendation is as a result of the support that Mr Kalusha Bwalya rendered to the campaign for His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu?

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, as stated earlier on, it is not the President of the Republic of Zambia, myself or, indeed, the Zambian Government that recommended Mr Kalusha Bwalya. It was the FAZ Executive as per the Federation of International Football Associations (FIFA) guidelines or regulations.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that there are no wrangles at the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ), but mere administrative disputes. At what level does the Federation of International Football Associations (FIFA) come in when there is an internal dispute at local level?

 

Mr Mawere: Mr Speaker, as a matter of procedure when there are disciplinary actions being taken, it is embedded in their constitution that they should notify the National Sports Council of Zambia, the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development and FIFA. Therefore, that is why all these institutions were notified.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

 BOREHOLES IN LUMEZI

 

49. Mrs Jere (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection:

 

1. when the sinking of the seventeen boreholes earmarked for Lumezi Parliamentary Constituency in 2016, would commence; and

 

1. when dams would be constructed in the constituency, considering that there was a critical shortage of water.

 

The Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection (Mr Kaziya): Mr Speaker, the ministry, through Lundazi District Council, under the 2016 Work Plan, planned to drill fifty boreholes, including the seventeen in Lumezi Constituency. However, with support from our co-operating partners, only fourteen boreholes have been drilled in Lumezi this year. The remaining boreholes will be drilled as soon as funds are made available from the Treasury.

 

Sir, the Government has an on-going programme of constructing small dams to provide water to communities. In Lumezi Constituency, the Department of Water Resources Development identified and assessed twelve sites. However, only one site in Chief Zumwede’s area has been declared suitable for possible construction. Lusangazi Dam was identified as a potential site. My ministry will construct the dam once technical details and feasibility studies are conducted. However, my ministry, through the Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme, will drill boreholes once funds are made available from the Treasury.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the Government has enough machinery to construct dams. If so, why, then, is the Government failing to give us dams?

 

Mr Kaziya: Mr Speaker, in my response to the question by the hon. Member for Lumezi Constituency, I mentioned that we have plans to construct dams, and that we have since identified sites in the constituencies where they will be sunk.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Do you have the machinery?

 

Mr Kaziya: Mr Speaker, we have the machinery, and we have since sent ten drilling machines to each province.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I wish to know what priority the ministry places on the provision of clean water to the citizens of Zambia, in particular, Lumezi Constituency, given that the whole year, given that the money that was provided for the whole year only came from donors and not necessarily from the Government. What urgent measures has the Government put in place to ensure that the Ministry of Finance releases the money so that the few boreholes that are supposed to be sunk in Lumezi Constituency are sunk before the end of this year?

 

Mr Kaziya: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government has prioritised the provision of clean water to citizens of this country. This has been demonstrated by the sinking of thirteen boreholes out of the eighteen that were requested.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Mrs Jere: Mr Speaker, the seventeen boreholes that the Government promised to sink in 2016 were to be sunk by the ministry. The hon. Minister has just informed this House and the nation at large that the thirteen boreholes were sunk by our co-operating partners, and I am sure it is World Vision. As the Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection, when are you going to drill the seventeen boreholes that you promised?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kaziya: Mr Speaker, you should be aware that we work in collaboration with our co-operating partners. Therefore, they cannot carry out the works without our permission and our agreeing to the number of boreholes to be sunk. So, the boreholes were sunk in collaboration with my ministry.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, I would to base my debate on the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Nangoma Constituency, who asked if the Government has the equipment needed to construct dams and to which the hon. Minister responded in the affirmative. Does the Government have equipment to construct dams?

 

Mr Kaziya: Mr Speaker, I said we have the equipment, and that working with the Zambia National Service, we are going to provide this service to our communities.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga): Mr Speaker, it seems there is new technology used to construct dams. I understand there are drilling machines which are being used to make dams. How many dams are you constructing using drilling machines?

 

Mr Kaziya: Mr Speaker, the question is about sinking boreholes in Lumezi Constituency and not Senanga Constituency.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

______

 

MOTION

 

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS 19, 20, 21(1) AND 101

 

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 19, 20, 21(1) and 101 be suspended to enable the House to sit at 0900 hours each day from Tuesday, 13^th December, 2016 until all the business before the House is completed and that on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.

 

Sir, Standing Order 19 provides that on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, the House meets at 1430 hours, while Standing Orders 20 and 21(1) provide for the automatic times of adjournment. Standing Order 101 restricts the consideration of more than one, –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Musukwa: Standing Order 101 restricts the consideration of more than one stage of a Bill to be taken during the same sitting. This Motion seeks to suspend the Standing Orders so that the remaining business before the House is expeditiously transacted.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the House is aware that the 2017 Budget ought to be approved before the House goes on Christmas break so that the necessary Bills may be processed for ascent and publication as law, by 1^st January, 2017, which is the beginning of the Financial Year.

 

This, however, cannot happen within the normal sitting time of the House. There is, therefore, a need to extend the sitting time from 0900 hours each day until the normal adjournment time, with tea and lunch breaks in-between. The suspension of the said Standing Orders will provide the House sufficient time to consider all outstanding heads of expenditure and all matters arising therefrom and, thereafter adjourn sine die.

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Musukwa: Sir, before I conclude, let me inform the House that the current meeting, which commenced on Friday, 23^rd September, 2016, is scheduled to end on Friday, 16^th December, 2016 or thereabout.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Musukwa: By this day, the House would have sat for a total of thirty-six days. Further, approximately fifty-nine Questions for Oral Answer would have been considered. The House would have also dealt with, at least, two Motions to adopt reports from Sessional and Select Committees as well as two Private Members’ Motions.

 

In addition, thirty-seven ministerial statements explaining the Government’s position on issues of national importance would have been rendered. Apart from this, a minimum of forty-seven annual reports from Government ministries and quasi-Government institutions would have been laid on the Table of the House. The House would have also considered and passed eleven Bills, including the money Bills. Above all, the House would have approved the 2017 Budget, which will enable the Government to continue with its developmental programmes.

 

Mr Speaker, accomplishing such a huge volume of business within this relatively short period is no mean achievement. It is a demonstration of the commitment, team work and hard work of all hon. Members. I can confidently say that the first meeting of the First Session of the Twelfth National Assembly has been a resounding success in every respect. Let me, therefore, take this opportunity to sincerely thank all the hon. Members, individually and collectively, for a job well done.

 

Sir, the House will further agree with me that the farming season has just begun. Considering that there is emphasis on diversification of the economy towards agriculture, it is necessary for the House to adjourn early so as to allow hon. Members of Parliament …

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Musukwa: … to be involved in farming activities ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Musukwa: … in their respective constituencies.

 

It is also an opportunity for hon. Members of Parliament to sensitise their constituents on the importance of agriculture as the driver of our economy, as a business and not just an activity for producing food for consumption.

 

Ms Kalima: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, allow me at this juncture to thank you for the effective and efficient manner in which you and your two hon. Deputy Speakers have handled the proceedings of the House throughout this meeting. I particularly want to commend the two Deputy Speakers for their quick adaption to their new roles as Presiding Officers.

 

Sir, the House is going through a very serious learning curve and, therefore, I appeal to you to continue being patient and guide the House prudently like you have always done.

 

Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to express my gratitude to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the professional and efficient services rendered to the House during this sitting.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Musukwa: Sir, in conclusion, I wish to commend the officers from the Parliamentary Business Division in the Office of the Vice-President, led by Ambassador Muchinga, as well as officers from the Government ministries and departments who have played a part in making the work of Parliament a resounding success during this meeting.

 

Mr Speaker, this is a straightforward and non-partisan Motion. I urge the House to support it.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, this is a straightforward, non-controversial and non-partisan Motion. I urge the House to support it.

 

Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to wish all the hon. Members of Parliament and the nation a happy festive season and a prosperous 2017 which is fast-approaching.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, at the risk of having the ‘Noes’, I  have something to say. I wish to find out if the emoluments applicable in the normal sitting …

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Let us have some order.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Let us have some order.

 

This is a procedural Motion. It is not an opportunity for question and answer.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo indicated to speak.

 

Mr Speaker: Just wait, hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

 

Mr Nkombo resumed his seat.

 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, if you have questions, please, the Clerk is available, …

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: … to deal with all these administrative matters away from the Floor of this House.

 

We are simply suspending the Standing Orders. If the Standing Orders are not suspended and, if we do not complete our business before the end of the year, all that we have been doing will come to noughtt. There will be nothing.

 

Ms Chonya: Where were they?

 

Mr Speaker: The Speaker is speaking.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: It is as simple as that.

 

Mr Livune: That is right!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: It is as simple as that.

 

We are national leaders who have made themselves available to provide a service to the people of Zambia, collectively.

 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Motion. In the same vein, I also wish to thank the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

 

Sir, when I looked at the wording of the Motion, the first thing that came to mind was that it is defective.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, for avoidance of doubt, I will quote Standing Order No. 20 and, then, go to the reasons I think it is defective. It says:

 

“On Fridays and Wednesdays, the normal hours of adjournment shall be 1300 hours and 1915 hours respectively. On all other days, the normal hour of adjournment shall be 2000 hours.”

 

Sir, the wording of this Motion – I am quoting only quoting Standing No. 20 which reads:

 

“ Standing order 19, 20, 21 (1) and 101 be suspended to enable the House to sit at 0900 hours each day from Tuesday, December, 2016, until all business before the House is completed and that on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.”

 

Mr Speaker, this Motion entails that we shall be working endlessly from 0900 hours, Tuesday, 13^th December, 2016. I recognise that in his statement, the Leader of Government Business in the House mentioned the normal retirement hour of the day. If we are in agreement that the Motion is defective, it should either  be amended or withdrawn, but I am more inclined to having the Motion withdrawn because the lessons that we have learnt in the past regarding the suspension of Standing Orders has been catastrophic.

 

Sir, I remember when we agreed to suspend the same Standing Orders during the time we were amending the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia on 10^th December, 2015. On that day, we worked and cracked the night until 1000 hours in the morning. I do recall the hon. Justice then, indicating that we were enacting a Constitution that would stand the test of time. It is barely a year and we have seen that because of the fatigue and the non-attendance to detail, we even missed the attendant clauses that have seen this country trotting from offices to court such as the clause relating to hon. Ministers continuing in office after Parliament has been dissolved.

 

Sir, all I am saying is that the Yellow Book is a big document and, if you consider the amount of work that we have done in the last few days, you will find that we have covered very few Votes. I have said before that in a budgetary process, the devil is in the detail. For instance, we have seen that colossal sums of money have been allocated towards hon. Minister’s offices. For example, I am not ashamed to mention the hon. Ministry of National Development and Planning, which has been allocated more money than certain departments and ministries just for the the hon. Minister’s Office. How can the soup be more expensive than the main course? Therefore, we missed all the details.

 

Mr Speaker, my fear now is that should we agree to drop the Standing Orders, we would be making a mistake. As you know already, we have been very obedient as hon. Members of this august House through your authority when you made ground rules such as only four hon. members debating. It was in a quest to beat time and we accepted that. However, we know that it is not conventional because every hon. Member of this House comes represents a constituency with various interests and needs.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, ordinarily, from my little experience as Member of Parliament, in the past, we used to have least eight hon. Members debating. However, we agreed with your decree when you said time is not with us. The question that begs an answer is: Who delayed the presentation of this Budget?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: We are dealing with and approving figures that affect people’s lives for the entire year. So, are we scrutinising the Budget or just perusing through it?

 

Sir, my fear is that if we accept to drop the Standing Orders, we will just be running through the figures. If the hon. Minister of Finance comes with a supplementary budget in the middle of the year, we will then blame ourselves for not being thorough.

 

Mr Speaker, I have taken the Floor in a quest to plead with the Government or, indeed, the person who brought this Motion to withdraw it so that we can do a thorough job. I am aware that the backbone Committee, the Public Accounts Committee of this Parliament, is sitting up to 23^rd December, 2016, because of the bulk of work. If we took the same position and told your Committee to rush the witnesses through, we would miss some of the anomalies detected by the Auditor-General’s Office. So, what will we be doing?

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: If it was not Parliamentary, I would have said the word, but this Motion –

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Then, do not say what is unparliamentary because you are in Parliament.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I thank you for the guidance.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Just say what is parliamentary.

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, this Motion seeks to make this Parliament a tool and to patronise it, but we refuse to be patronised.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I am sure all my colleagues know the word which is unparliamentary, which I would have used. So, it is up to you, hon. Members, to agree to be the kind of stamp that will give authority for us to run through the figures without scrutinising them. One of the core responsibilities of hon. Members of Parliament is Budget oversight, and this is what we are doing. An extra day, two or three even up to 23^rd December, 2017, will not harm anyone.

 

Sir, I now want to make a quick reference to the experience of 10^th of December, 2015, so that hon. Members who were not here then can visualise what I am trying to say. I am quoting Hon. Cornelius Mweetwa who was on the Floor at 0445 hours in the morning during the the Amendment of the current Constitution.

 

Mr Speaker, Mr Mweetwa said:

 

“Mr Chairperson, the people of Zambia have spoken and I stand here in the early hour of the morning. I must state that I am a very disappointed hon. Member of Parliament to belong to an assembly, which the people of this country look forward to delivering, but one which cannot deliver what the people expect.”

 

Sir, these were the words of the hon. Member of Parliament, who was tired and was lamenting. By the way, what we were dealing with at the time was just this book.

 

Mr Nkombo lifted the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act, No. 2 of 2016.

 

Look at the difference between this book and the Yellow Book.

 

Mr Nkombo lifted the Yellow Book.

 

 Laughter 

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, we missed the wording of consequential and attendant clauses in this small document. The risk we ran is that of not paying attention to detail. For instance, I know that all hon. Ministers seated on the right have an explanation for each Budget line. Why do they have that explanation? It is because they expect questions from hon. Members of Parliament for justification.

 

Sir, this is the core function of this House. Rummaging through the pages of the Yellow Book can be detrimental to our wellbeing. Mr Mweetwa went on to say:

 

“Mr Chairperson, this reminds me of a question in Constitutional Law which my former lecturer, Prof. Alfred Chanda, may his soul rest in peace, always asked, “Why has Zambia failed to deliver itself a constitution that is people-driven and can stand the test of time?” The answer is here. Zambia has failed to deliver a constitution that can stand the test of time because when an opportunity comes, as it has come at this particular moment, there is conspiracy between the Executive and Management of the National Assembly.”

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, history seems to be repeating itself. Therefore, we should not throw such aspersions at ourselves because the processes of this House should be driven by ourselves. They should not be driven by the Offices of the Clerk and the Hon. Mr Speaker. Of course, the Hon. Mr Speaker must convene Parliament. It is his duty, but the processes of the House must be determined by us.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, we need to adhere to the ground rules that we have set, and that we think are within the bounds of reasonableness so that we can achieve that which we came to do here, and that is to address the interests and aspirations of our people. Therefore, I appeal to the Executive to withdraw this Motion forthwith.

 

Sir, I also wish to quote my debate for that day when we were amending the Constitution. I said:

 

“We have to be prudent in the way we use our time. We have a job to do here. No one must play to the gallery. What we are going through now is a matter of procedure and, as a matter of fact, I request that you, Sir, by the decree of your authority, should tell everyone to wake up …”

 

Sir, I said this because at that time people were sleeping on these benches. They even covered themselves with blankets when were enacting the law. We risk having people going to sleep again because of fatigue. The law of this country is quite specific on what the working hours are. It is very specific that there are eight working hours. Just to buttress your point, we have to sacrifice to do what is expected of us but, I think, we must do it in good faith and with thoroughness, not to run through the figures as is being suggested.

 

Sir, I went on to say:

 

“Mr Chairperson, I think posterity will judge us very harshly. I do not blame the people who are sleeping. The reason they are sleeping is that they are tired and, in fact, are silently objecting to bringing the Adjournment Motion to allow us to work …”

 

Sir, hon. Members on the other side of the House slept due to fatigue. For the information of hon. Members of the House who were not there at the time, …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

 

Mr Nkombo: … we worked from 1430 hours to 1000 hours the next day. We should, therefore, not be surprised that the Constitution is defective. Our minds were not alert. I am sure you will recall that some people made fun of me because I remained awake. I had to use the facility behind the Assembly Chamber.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: We do not want hon. Members to rush to this facility again and make a …

 

Mr Chitotela: Which facility is that?

 

Mr Nkombo: Please, Sir, protect me from Mr Chitotela.

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

The hon. Member is winding down now.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: We are hopeful that we do not use the facility behind the Assembly Chamber as we approve figures that are key to the interest and aspirations of the people we represent. I am now begging the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, Hon. Musukwa, because even from the delivery of the Motion, one could tell that he did not believe in his own words because he is aware that we cannot conclude this business in such a fashion and produce a good result. It is for this reason that I am making this plea. I am sure you have never, in a long time, heard me debate in a sombre manner like I am doing.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: That is what is expected of you, especially as a Whip.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, the reason is in respect to your authority and the fact that this particular matter, as the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has said, is non-controversial and non-emotive. There are no emotions to be attached here on a matter that is procedural. Of course, there will be certain emotive matters where emotions must radiate or come out. For now, however, I am appealing to the consciences of the hon. Minister of Finance, Acting Leader of Government Business in the House and even the hon. Minister of Religious Affairs and National Guidance.

 

Hon. Oppositions Members: Hear, hear!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: The latter must start interceding for all hon. Members. Even before we continue with this debate, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House must find it in his heart to simply withdraw this Motion and see if the House can adjourn on 23^rd December, 2016, so that we can do a thorough job.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: At that stage, maybe, we can even do the thorough job gratis.

 

Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to debate, and I am very certain that everyone will say, “Amen” …

 

Hon. Members: Amen!

 

Mr Nkombo: … which means let it be so.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr, Speaker, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to support the Motion ably moved by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, Hon. Musukwa. This Motion is begging to have Standing Orders 19, 20, 21(1) and 101 suspended to enable the House to sit from 0900 hours each day from Tuesday, 13^th December, 2016, until all business before the House is completed.

 

Mr Speaker, this is, indeed, a non-controversial Motion and I am shocked that it should attract controversial debate from a senior hon. Member –

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, Take a seat.

 

Let me provide some guidance. As you have indicated, the Motion is not controversial. So, let us not make it controversial. Just state your viewpoint and anybody else will be at liberty to state their viewpoints. I also have a function to perform at the end of the debate, and we will conclude this Motion the usual way.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that guidance. I am saying that this is a non-controversial matter and we, the Government, have got a responsibility to provide direction. That is what the people of Zambia have requested us to do.

 

We have very important business to conduct here, and the request from the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House is well meant. The Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has requested the suspension of the Standing Orders so that we have ample time to conduct the business by sitting in the morning and afternoon. He has not said that we are going to be sitting up to midnight.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Let the hon. Minister state his position. Do not respond to him whilst you are seated.

 

Mr Livune: He is annoying us, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker: Whether you are annoyed or not is immaterial.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Speaker: Continue hon. Minister.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I would like to make it clear that we, on the right side, are determined to support this Motion and we do not intend to withdraw it. If we withdraw it, we will be doing the nation a disservice.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Speaker: Order!

 

Order, on the left!

 

Continue, hon. Minister. 

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, we have performed to the expectation of the nation by delivering one very important document, which is the Constitution. When we were considering the Constitution, we had a similar situation of limited time. We wanted to consider that document within the normal working hours of Parliament. However, the left requested for ample time to make submissions and you granted that request. As dedicated leaders, we sat through the period of the extension. I know that other hon. Members were tempted to take some substances to sustain them throughout that extension. Those of us who were committed to doing the work remained awake and ensured that we did justice to the document. We also need to deal with a number of Bills that are pending apart from the Budget.

 

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I know that you are not going to stress us. You are going to be mindful of the times for adjournments during that extended period, and you will be equal to the task. To insinuate that we shall be sleeping here during that period is not correct. As a responsible Government, ...

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Kampyongo: ... which has been given responsibility by the people of Zambia, we are going to make sure that we support this Motion which is well meant. We are going to sit throughout the extension to make sure that this important business is disposed of so that we can adjourn.

 

Mr Speaker, Budget consideration and approval is one of the key functions of this august House and we cannot abdicate our responsibility when it comes to this matter, especially us in the Government because failure to pass this Budget is going to have ramifications on our people whom we need to serve. Our people cannot wait to be given the services they want. The development of our nation cannot wait. People are crying for schools and better roads and they know that this Government has shown them what it can do and how it can perform to their expectation. Therefore, any manoeuvre to derail this process of passing the Budget will not be accepted. We are resolved to supporting the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House and it shall be so.

 

With this brief debate, I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to wind up the debate. I would like to sincerely thank Hon. Garry Nkombo and Hon. Kampyongo who have spoken on this subject.

 

Mr Speaker, Hon. Garry Nkombo quoted various statutes connected to how we are supposed to operate.  I think that he had very valid points which I agree with.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Musukwa: I think that the suspension of the Standing Orders is well meant to ensure that we transact business. We will sit at 09:00 hours and will have breaks, including lunch. So, we are not going to be sitting throughout the day. My older brother, the experienced hon. Member of Parliament for the great people of Mazabuka Central, went overboard when he insinuated that we are going to be sitting throughout the day.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Musukwa: He also assumed that my intonation of the Motion was low. So, I am now reverberating it to ensure that this Motion goes through.

 

Mr Speaker, Hon. Garry Nkombo spoke about the devil being in the detail. I also saw the devil in the detail of his debate. This is a non-contentious Motion, and I urge all of us to support it. The Government’s position is that we suspend Standing Orders 19, 20, 21(1) and 101 to ensure that we finish all the business which is outstanding. I am sure that if you look at the days which are remaining, you will notice that we do not have enough time because of constitutional provisions. I am sure I have many colleagues here who understand the Constitution better than I do. In terms of the Constitution, our Budget must be actualised by 1^st January, 2017 and, because of this, we need to ensure that all the Bills and any business related to the Budget is concluded by 1^st January. So, 16^th December, 2016, is an opportune time for us to finish the business.

 

Mr Speaker, I urge all the hon. Members of the House to support this non-contentious Motion.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Hon. Members called for a division.

 

Question that, Standing Orders 19, 20, 21(1) and 101 be suspended to enable the House to sit at 0900 hours each day from Tuesday, 13^th December, 2016, until all business before the House is completed and that on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die, put and the House voted.

 

Ayes – (64)

 

Mr C. R. Banda

Mr Bwalya

Mr Chali

Ms Chalikosa

Mr Chama

Mr Chanda

Mr Chibanda

Mr Chilangwa

Dr Chilufya

Mr Chilumba

Mr Chisopa

Mr Chitotela

Mr Chiyalika

Mr Chungu

Mr Daka

Dr Hamukale

Ms G. P. M. Jere

Mr Kabamba

Mr Kabanda

Ms Kabanshi

Mr Kafwaya

Ms Kalima

M Kampyongo

Mr Kapita

Mr Katambo

Mr Kaziya

Mr Kopulande

Mr Kunda

Mr Lusambo

Mr Malama

Mr Malanji

Mr Mawere

Mr Mbulakulima

Mr Mecha

Mr Miti

Mr Mubukwanu

Mr Mukosa

Mr Mulenga

Mr Mundubile

Mr Mung’andu

Mr Mushanga

Mr Mushimba

Mr Musonda

Mr Musukwa

Mr Mutale

Mr Mutati

Mr Mwamba

Mr Ng’ambi

Mr Ng’onga

Mr Nkhuwa

Ms E. Phiri

Ms O. M. Phiri

Mr Sichalwe

Mr Sichone

Mr Simbao

Mr Simfukwe

Mrs Simukoko

Mr Siwale

Rev. Sumaili

Mr K. Tembo

Mr N. Tembo

Dr Wanchinga

Mr Zimba

Mr M. Zulu

 

Noes – (61)

 

Mr Belemu

Mr Bulaya

Mr Chabi

Mr Chikote

Ms Chisangano

Ms Chonya

Mr Fungulwe

Mr Hamusonde

Dr Imakando

Mr Imbuwa

Mr Jamba

Mr M. Jere

Mr Kakubo

Dr Kalila

Mr Kalobo

Mr Kambita

Mr Kamboni

Mr Kamondo

Ms Kasanda

Mr Kasonso

Ms Kasune

Mr Kintu

Ms Kucheka

Mr Kufakwandi

Mr Kundoti

Mr Lihefu

Mr Livune

Mr Lufuma

Mr Lumayi

Prof. Lungwangwa

Mr Machila

Mr Mandumbwa

Mrs Mazoka

Mr Mbangweta

Mr Michelo

Ms Miti

Mr Miyutu

Mr Mubika

Mr Mukumbuta

Mr Mulunda

Mr S. Mulusa

Ms Mulyata

Dr Musokotwane

Mr Mutelo

Ms Mwashingwele

Mr Mweetwa

Mr Mwiimbu

Mr Mwila

Mr Nanjuwa

Mr Ndalamei

Mr Ngulube

Mr Nkombo

Mr Samakayi

Evangelist Shabula

Mr Sialubalo

Gen. Sitwala

Mr Siwanzi

Ms Subulwa

Mr Syakalima

Ms Tambatamba

Mr S. Tembo

 

Abstentions – (0)

 

Question accordingly agreed to.

 

_______

 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

VOTE 21 – (Loans and Investments – Ministry of Finance – K21,305,615,084 ) and VOTE 3– Ministry of Finance – K3,791,409,561).

 

(Consideration resumed)

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Madam Chairperson, on behalf of Kalomo Central and Zambia at large, I wish to continue my debate on the Vote on Loans and Investments – Ministry of Finance.

 

Yesterday, I mentioned that when you throw a boomerang, you must know how to hold it back because it comes back with the same force you threw it with. If you do not know how to hold it back, you may be a casualty or you may die. We threw a boomerang by borrowing a lot of money for this country and now it is time to pay back.

 

I also mentioned that there is nothing wrong in borrowing, but what is important is proper planning and borrowing within the capacity of paying back. However, we borrowed beyond our capacity to pay back.

 

Madam Chairperson, allow me to look at how the loans were utilised. The loans were not utilised properly. For example, the Eurobond that was acquired to improve the supply of electricity in this country did not work very well. After the loan was acquired, we ended up with load shedding.

 

We got another loan to improve the railway system, but the rail system became worse.

 

Madam Chairperson, the people who got the Eurobonds celebrated these very expensive loans. I wish to explain the difference between a concessional loan and a loan secured from the black market. A Eurobond is a very expensive type of loan, while a concessional loan is better, as it has less interest. The United Party for National Development (UPND) would have gone for concessional loans which have smaller interest rates. The UPND would have used the loans to finance sectors like agriculture, tourism and energy that generate revenue. However, in this case, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government got loans and used them on sectors that do not generate income.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Question!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, allow me to back my assertion that the loans were used carelessly. Page 158 of the Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts of the Financial Year ending 31^st December, 2015, reads:

 

“On the 13^th of January, 2015, the ministry engaged MCD Civil and Mechanical Engineering to supply twelve dredging machines at a contract price of K136,771,400 (US$11,875,800) and  delivery period of eight months from the date of advance payment.”

 

It further reads:

 

“However, despite the supplier having been paid K106,419,638 (US$9,240,370), being 78 per cent of the contract price, the supplier had not delivered any of the dredging machines as at July, 2016. ”

 

This is another example of the waste of the loan. Further on the same page reads:

 

“On 17^th, October, 2014, the ministry engaged Multi Industry Ltd to supply three passenger vessels at a contract price of US$2,810,000 with a delivery period of four to six months from 19^th June,2015”.

 

A review of records and enquiries made with management revealed that as at July, 2016, the supplier had not delivered any of the passenger vessels.

 

Madam Chairperson, this is the waste we are talking about. The loans were misused as can be seen from the sections I have just quoted in the Auditor-General’s Report. Why should my grandmother pay tax only for the money to go to waste? I have perused the whole Yellow Book and there is nothing for Kalomo Central, Sinazongwe, Dundumwezi, Mazabuka and many other places. Why should the people pay tax when the loans were misused? What benefit have the brought to them?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, if I had the power, I would cut the salaries and allowances of the Executive and the Backbenchers in half in order to pay back the loans.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: The people who did not get the loans are the ones paying back now. We have now resorted to punishing the people of Zambia for the mistakes made by the Executive. The Executive is put in office to improve the lives of all the Zambians, not just their own. This is why I have a problem with acquiring loans. We continue getting loans while we fail to use our resources to improve the lives of the Zambians.

 

Madam Chairperson, as a result of the loans, the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO), Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL) and other parastatal companies will have to be sold. Why are they being sold when the loans were acquired to improve them? The PF Government has put ZESCO in this position because it fired many engineers and brought in cadres instead of professionals.

 

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: We now want to sell ZESCO and other parastatal companies without any mention of where the money to be realised f5rom the sale will go.

 

Mr Mung’andu: Question!

 

Mr Kamboni: Nobody knows where this money is going and the Zambian people, who pay tax, want their taxes to be used properly. They want their taxes to bring desks and computers in schools. The US$23 million that has gone missing could have bought all the computers our children need in classrooms, but it has gone to waste and up to now no one has been charged or arrested for misappropriating the money. How can I be convinced to get another loan to improve this situation?

 

Madam Chairperson, I do not trust the PF Government’s intention of selling parastatal companies. Only a prodigal son will sell a company that he did not form. These companies where left for a purpose. Every Government must have something to lean on. The problem is that the companies are managed by the people in Government whom we pay taxes to.

 

Madam Speaker, we intend to diversify from copper to agriculture. As we speak, the planting period is over. I am a farmer and I come from a constituency which produces the highest amount of maize in whole country. The people in my constituency have been calling asking where the Farmer Input Support Programme is. Those who are supposed to be running the Ministry of Agriculture are trotting around the globe leaving things undone in this country. That shows a lack of seriousness at the highest level and that must change.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, I have indicated that borrowing is not wrong, depending on what you want to use the money for. After all the loans that have been acquired, why has the Government raised taxes? It is because it has exhausted the loans. So, now it wants to sell companies and punish poor people ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Kamboni: ... by raising taxes to levels we have never seen before. Even the savings from the subsidies will go towards paying the debt. Why am I being punished? In 2015, there was no allocation for Kalomo. The same happened in 2016 and it is happening in 2017. Why are my people paying tax?

 

Madam Chairperson, if the Government has introduced a crop levy to make people even poorer, why am I here? When you budget for a family, you are supposed to include all the members of the family. If I have four dependants, I should include them in my budget. If I leave them out of the budget, then, it is not a family budget. The National Budget should be for everybody. The money in the Budget does not come from one region.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: It is collected from all parts of the country. This is what the Budget should reflect.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Budget should be redone to include everybody. We should begin to walk the talk. We want a Budget that is all inclusive.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: Do not talk big and do nothing. I want this Budget to be redone.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Madam Chairperson, I would like to give my reflections on what the hon. Minister of Finance said yesterday. Indeed, we, as a nation, are in trouble.

 

I was looking at the Human Development Index (HDI) for our country and, out of 188 economies in the world, Zambia is at number 139. With this Budget that is being proposed, we are likely to slip further to a lower rating. This is because we are not going to spend money on areas we are not supposed to spend on, since the economy cannot sustain what is required in education, health and other social sectors.

 

Madam Chairperson, I have a few suggestions for the consideration of the hon. Minister. I also have a request to make. Firstly, I am requesting the hon. Minister to remember and consider new constituencies. A number of people here do not even know where Nkeyema is. I have gone to the Government offices and some of the officers do not know where Nkeyema is.

 

Madam Chairperson, because ours are new constituencies, when all is said and done, I would like to request the hon. Minister to ensure that the provisions in the Budget for 2017 are disbursed.

 

Madam Chairperson, secondly, the Frontbench should be concerned about the way resources have been allocated by now. I have seen a booklet which has been distributed to us as part of this Budget process. I have further noticed that there are sixteen schools being constructed in one region and only eight in another region. The same region with sixteen schools has had no tractors.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbangweta: Madam Chairperson, we should not allow such a situation to happen. When the Government contracts loans, it contracts them on behalf of all of us. So, by implication, the benefits from those loans should go to all the citizens and not just one part of the country because the people who are going to pay back the loans come from all the regions of this country.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would like to request the hon. Minister to take this into account. This time around, when he oversees this ministry, he must ensure equity. Even the people in the Frontbench must feel uncomfortable that while some areas have sixteen schools, others have nothing at all. I have looked and there is nothing for Nkeyema. So, in the same spirit that Hon. Nkombo said that we represent particular areas, my people will be asking why there are on secondary schools in our region while other places have secondary schools.

 

Madam Chairperson, since the hon. Minister indicated that he will still be in charge of the funding for the roads, I request that he considers the Lusaka/Mongu Road, especially the part that goes through Nkeyema.

 

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mbangweta: When we had a seminar with the Road Development Agency (RDA) and the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), they confirmed what we have been saying that they are the ones who demolished  the road a long time ago but, for some reason, they have not come up to repair it. So, we are requesting that this road be considered in the Budget for 2017, just like other roads.

 

Madam Chairperson, the fifth pillar for Zambia Plus is on employment creation. I would like to suggest that you consider carrying out a study through the Ministry of National Development and Planning to find out why the growth of the gross domestic product (GDP) has not resulted in the creation of employment. We need to find out what is happening because if we do not do this, we will not achieve anything and will just be putting together meaningless numbers.

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

Mr Mbangweta: Madam Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was saying that whilst I agree with the hon. Minister that the projects that were started ought to be completed, I wish to emphasise that affirmative action should be taken to consider new constituencies because they have not been captured in the Budget, Nkeyema inclusive.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would like to follow up on what the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs said about the way resources are allocated. I think that it is a good idea because it reduces complaints and contentions. He indicated that his ministry is building three palaces for chiefs per province and five chiefs from each province will be part of the House of Chiefs. This is a very good idea because everybody understands the basis of how people are coming to the table and, subsequently, how resources are being allocated in an equitable manner. Infrastructure development should be distributed the same way. Yesterday, the hon. Minister said that K3 million had been given to four provinces to repair infrastructure damaged heavy rains. This gave us comfort because there appears to be an equitable distribution of repair of infrastructure unlike what used to happened in the past.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am also requesting the hon. Minister of Finance to consider projects which are not yet allocated any funds. Maybe, he can prevail upon his colleagues to do what the other two ministries have done so that there is consistency in the distribution of infrastructure development. I have in mind the Emergent Farmer Support Programme, which is worth US$40 million, and is supposed to benefit about 1,000 emergent farmers. I also have in mind the twenty irrigation schemes and eighteen artificial insemination centres, 144 prefabricated bridges and the construction of 2,000 water points and rehabilitation of 1,000 water points. If we follow the same principle used by the other two ministries, there will be no contention, as there will be equity in project implementation.

 

Madam Chairperson, with regard to Pillar No. Five on job creation, I would like to suggest to the hon. Minister to work with his colleague in the Ministry of National Development Planning to see whether the Central Statistical Office (CSO) could be strengthened. When I was at the university in 1974, the CSO used to produce what was called monthly digest statistics which were current and included all the figures. It had a lot of clout and credibility but, at the moment, the statistics appear to have lost value. If you are going to negotiate with the unions, for example, the figures that appear to comfortably feed on inflation are those from the Bank of Zambia, not from the CSO. The section of CSO that collects data needs to be strengthened so that issues relating to the definition of a decent job and how many jobs could have been created in a month, a year or six months are not contended because everybody will have this information and will appreciate how it is arrived at. The reason the Government has failed to come back to the nation on the 500,000 jobs it had promised in its last term of office is that there is no structure to support the collection of correct figures.

 

Madam Chairperson, with respect to the issue of the ministry inculcating fiscal discipline, I would request the hon. Minister to find out why the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) failed. Apart from the reasons that have been advanced in regard to the failure of IFMIS, such as power failure and so on and so forth, I think there are more fundamental reasons for the failure of IFMIS. If IFMIS was working well, prudent financial management of resources would be achieved. So, the failure of IFMIS is a great risk which the hon. Minister needs to look at.

 

Madam Chairperson, this morning, I looked at a document which seems to indicate that there is another risk coming up which the hon. Minister needs to factor in. It is a risk and threat to what he intends to do because the Public Service Management Division (PSMD) has been instructed to move civil servants around. Naturally, there is a cost associated with transfers. The way transfers are going to be implemented will have a telling effect on the overall intention of the transfers.

 

Madam Chairperson, with those few remarks, I thank you.

 

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Madam Chairperson, as I stand to give support to the policy statement by the hon. Minister of Finance, I would like to state, from the outset, that mine is a statement of solidarity. I wish to offer solidarity to the hon. Minister of Finance because I know that he is fully aware of the challenges that our economy is faced with. I am also aware that he is fully informed about what he is up against in trying to turn around our economy. From my interaction with the hon. Minister, I am also aware that he knows that many the challenges he is faced with are historical. These are challenges that have built up over many years.

 

Madam Chairperson, I will just mention two major underlying challenges that the hon. Minister is fully aware of. Firstly, the hon. Minister of Finance has a Budget of K64 billion. However, he is fully aware that 70 per cent of the Budget is going to about 250,000 Zambians. Seventy per cent of the Budget is going to the Public Service. This is historical, as it did not start last year or with this Government. It has been there since the United Nations Independence Party (UNIP) days. More than 250,000 public servants and their services will gobble 70 per cent of the National Budget. So, the hon. Minister will remain with 30 per cent of the Budget to support the 14 million Zambians. The hon. Minister is fully aware of that serious challenge. He needs to work on changing this scenario in the next few years to reduce the proportion of the Budget that goes to a few people in the Public Service.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is important to mention that while the hon. Minister is aware that the amount left for the 14 million Zambians, which is about K10 billion from the K64 billion, does not imply that we have a huge Public Service. I do not believe so. I think our Public Service is the right size for the state of our natural resources in this country. I think it is just that “Zambia Limited” is not generating enough revenue. That is the real problem. The 250,000 or so public servants are not generating enough revenue for the hon. Minister of Finance. However, looking at the natural resource base that we have, the public servants can generate more. I think the hon. Minister is aware of the challenge, which has been there for a long time.

 

Madam Chairperson, as I give solidarity to the hon. Minister of Finance, I also wish to mention that he is aware that becoming a richer country is not the solution to the problem. When Zambia was a low-income country, there were fewer poor people. Action Aid has produced a report that says that when Zambia was a low-income country; when Zambia had less cash; and when Zambia was generating less revenue, there were fewer poor Zambians. The poverty rate was much lower. This was probably towards the end of the UNIP era and in the early part of the Movement for Multi-party for Democracy (MMD) era. We were poorer as a country, but we had fewer poor people. Now that we are officially a middle-income country, we have more poor people. We have become richer as a country, but more people have become poorer.

Mr Chansa: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Simfukwe: The hon. Minister is aware of the fact that more people have become poorer. Basically, we are in a transition from a socialist economy to what some people might call a market-driven economy. Many of us here come from a socialist economy for we were raised in a socialist economy. However, the challenge is as the economy becomes market-driven and probably richer, we have to make sure that we carry the poor people along so that we do not widen the gap between the poor and the rich. The hon. Minister is aware of that. So, there is no guarantee that when you increase the revenue, then, everybody will be happy. We might find that few people become richer than the majority, and I think the hon. Minister is aware of that challenge, too.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is important to mention that when His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, came to this House, he challenged all the Zambians to stop taking an input or activity-driven approach, especially in the Public Service where the money is supposed to be generated. The Public Service can only increase its revenue base and reduce its share of the total revenue by becoming output oriented. I know the hon. Minister is aware of this and we have discussed and shared this thought. Output based budgets should be a reality in all the key ministries and sectors. However, I know that we have tried this approach in the education and health sectors. If all the ministries embrace this approach, we might achieve what the President challenged us to achieve. Our economy will grow and the Public Service will regenerate more revenue than it is spending, and it will become an output-based Public Service.

 

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister is aware that it is not going to be business as usual. If we have to transform our economy using annual Budgets, it cannot be business as usual. This is what the President was referring to when he said that he wants to see performance based contracts among Permanent Secretaries (PS) in the Public Service. He also said that it cannot be business as usual. The Public Service, which is the management team of “Zambia Limited”, should start generating more revenue so that the proportion of the consumer to the producer can reduce. If the Public Service can marshal the productive sector and generate K800 billion, its budget will reduce to 20 per cent from 70 per cent. If it generates K800 billion or even just K500 billion and increase the revenue ten times, its share of the Budget will drop to 40 per cent and the remaining 90 per cent will be used by the rest of the 14 million Zambians. That is what the President was saying, and I know that the hon. Minister is aware of that.

 

Madam Chairperson, I also know that the hon. Minister of Finance, together with his fraternal or, maybe, Siamese twin, the Minister of National Development and Planning, Hon. Mulusa, are aware that if the key economic ministries of our country, namely Agriculture, and Commerce, Trade and Industry are not reformed to become output oriented, we will not increase the revenue base of this country. Therefore, I implore them to approach the necessary authorities and get the mandate so that the ministries are reformed and become output oriented. That way, they will generate more money for this country instead of us focusing on spending money.

 

Madam Chairperson, as I wind down, I would like to encourage the hon. Minister, as he pursues the difficult and noble task for which I know he is well prepared, to expedite the bringing of the Planning and Budgeting Bill to this House. The legislative wing of the Government should be involved from the early stages of the preparation of the Bill. This is our Bill and Parliament can participate effectively in planning for the resources of this country. We should not just be involved at the last minute. The Budget Office should be involved as the Bill is being finalised. We can help set high priorities for this country through this Bill.

 

Madam Chairperson, the five pillars that the hon. Minister outlined are all credible and effective instruments for transforming our economy. However, he needs to get his hands dirty and some people would say he needs to be hands-on. I think that he needs to put on a pair of overalls and work with the Public Service. He needs to lead from the front which I know has been his culture. His abilities to provide leadership, like he has done in the past at the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and industry, will now be put to a test and he needs to bring them forward.

 

Madam Chairperson, I know that the hon. Minister has done a good job of interacting with stakeholders. He has met various people who are part and parcel of our economy. I have seen him on television and met him at different for a. However, I wish that can happen even before the Budget is finalised. My colleagues and I had the opportunity to meet President Uhuru Kenyatta in Nairobi a few days ago, courtesy of hon. Mr Speaker. We were accompanied by the Chairman of Equity Bank Kenya Ltd, and he said that the hon. Ministers of Finance must go round and meet stakeholders before the Budget is finalised.

 

Madam Chairperson, what the hon. Minister has done in this country is very good. However, I encourage him to go round and get views from the business community, manufacturers, the Public Service, chiefs and the Legislature before the Budget is finalised. Thereafter, the points gathered from the interaction can be taken on board when the Budget is being put together. That way, we will have a Budget that is not only bottom up, but also whose figures meet the aspirations of the economy.

 

Madam Chairperson, with those few remarks, I want to offer my solidarity to the hon. Minister of Finance.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister of Finance (Mr Mutati): Madam Chairperson, it is difficult to wind up debate particularly from the perspective of the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbala’s sobering debate. The challenge we have is what he said a few days ago when he asked one of our Permanent Secretaries about the Budget process, and the answer that I recall correctly is that we are not designed to deliver output. That is one of the primary challenges for this country. We should also be conscious of the fact that our accumulated problems and deformities in revenue cannot be cured through the 2017 Budget. We must also remain cognisant of the fact that our wishes are disproportionate to the capacity for us to generate revenue.

 

We need to change the tone of our language and stop saying things like, “You have not delivered to our province and where are we in this Budget?”

 

Madam Chairperson, if you take the Kazungula Bridge, for instance, would you say it is for the Southern Province or for Zambia? My perspective is that it is for Zambia because it is going to improve trade and development for the country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Chairperson, when you take the rehabilitation of the Kalabo to Sikongo Road, is it for the region? No. It is for Zambia because Zambians settle wherever they want to.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Chairperson as leaders, we should not hang on unnecessarily to the mentality of “this is ours”. We must think about the totality of the country. Look at the Hook Bridge on the Mongu/Lusaka Road. Tomorrow, I will be in Mongu. We are going there because we are all Zambians. So, we are going to interact and explain the Budget. Therefore, the point that I am making is not to desegregate the Budget and say this is our share and this is for Zambia. Everything in the Budget is actually for all of us as a country called Zambia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Chairperson, Hon. Professor Lungwangwa made a very good point yesterday about prudent financial management. In my conversations with him over the years, he has always said it is not the salary that makes you rich, but your spending habits. Therefore, we need to check our spending habits. However, in order to complement that, we are carrying out appropriate amendments to the Public Finance Act to make it a bit more punitive to the offenders. We are also addressing systems such as Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) to make it much harder for people to spend that which is not in the Budget.

 

Madam Chairperson, we are also going to make adjustments to the Zambia Procurement Act to ensure that we begin to benchmark pricing so that the borehole in Kasenengwa and the one in Nalolo can be at the same price. Then, we would be moving forward. On the point that one Minister may have a budgetary allocation higher than another hon. Minister, I wish to say that those are the things we must begin to correct as a Government. Is seniority going to be measured by how much is allocated for travel by a Minister or by the output that is expected of that particular ministry? Therefore, we must now focus on the output. Limited output must be matched with limited resources.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Chairperson, as regards parastatals, we have said in the Budget that we are going to carry out a situation analysis. Those parastatals that have a business case will be recapitalised. Those that do not have a business case, unfortunately, we have to hide them out because they have no business case. The time for holding on is long overdue. If it cannot work, let it go, and that is the only way you are going to make progress.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me now talk about issues relating to the Eurobond. We have said in this Budget that next year, we are going to take a debt sustainability analysis. Firstly, we are going to refinance the Eurobonds and, secondly, where money was misappropriated, the culprits must be brought to book. So, these are critical issues.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would like my colleagues to understand that 2017 will be a difficult year because of limited resources. We would have wanted to do more, but we could not. Let us remember that you cannot spend what you do not have.

 

I thank you, madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Votes 21/01, 37/01, 37/02,37/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 37/06 – (Ministry of Finance – Centralised Computer Services Department – Nil).

 

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister of Finance, could you explain why this Vote has no allocation in 2017.

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Chairperson, the Centralised Computer Services Department has been moved to Cabinet Office.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Votes 37/07, 37/08, 37/10, 37/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 86 – (Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock – K642,686,689).

 

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Katambo): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver the policy statement on the 2017 Budget for the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is the mandate of my ministry to provide an environment that is conducive for sustainable increase in the production and productivity of high quality fish, livestock and their products.

 

May I recognise the invaluable contributions of various stakeholders such as our co-operating partners, the private sector, civil society organisations and farmers, in ensuring that Zambia’s potential in fisheries and livestock production is fully realised. My statement is divided into three major components, namely brief background of the fisheries and livestock sectors; performance review of 2016; and outlook for 2017.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Government and, in particular, the Republican President, His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, attaches great importance to the development of the fisheries and livestock sectors, as evidenced by the creation of a ministry solely responsible for fisheries and livestock development.

 

The livestock sector contributes over 42 per cent to the agricultural gross domestic product (GDP). In addition, the sector provides animal draft power, manure, hides and skins that are rarely quantified or easily valued. Clearly, the importance of the livestock sector in national development is underestimated. Fisheries directly or indirectly employ over 1 million people in fishing, fish processing, fish trading, transportation and boat building.

 

Madam Chairperson, despite their importance to the national economy, the fisheries and livestock sectors have continued registering low production and productivity as a result of various challenges that have persisted for a long time. For instance, the growth of livestock populations is hampered by high pest and disease prevalence and inadequate access to improved breeding stock, among others. The increasing demand for fish has led to an increase in overfishing using illegal methods, leading to depletion of fish stocks in some of our natural water bodies. Unsustainable fishing methods and low investment in aquaculture have resulted in Zambia being a net importer of fish.

 

Madam Chairperson, arising from the aforementioned challenges, my ministry and various partners and stakeholders have been implementing numerous programmes aimed at addressing the challenges I referred to. The thrust for the programmes that we are implementing is to develop the fisheries and livestock sectors for economic diversification, foreign exchange earnings, job creation, income generation, poverty reduction and, ultimately, economic development.

 

Madam Chairperson, allow me to highlight some key achievements of my ministry in 2016.

 

Fisheries provide the much-needed protein for the majority of the Zambian people. It accounts for 40 per cent of sources of animal protein for our people and, therefore, iscritical in addressing challenges of malnutrition. Further, over 1 million people are directly or indirectly involved in the fishing industry through fishing, fish processing, fish trading, importation and boat building. An extra 1,000 people are also involved in fisheries research, provision of extension services and administration.

 

Madam Chairperson, despite having abundant natural water resources and huge potential for aquaculture development, Zambia continues to be a net importer of fish. To address this challenge, my ministry is spearheading development of aquaculture in order to increase fish output. This is being done through the establishment of aquaculture parks as well as cage and pen culture promotion. In 2016, my ministry acquired 170 fish cages for distribution to fish farming communities. An addition 170 fish cages will be procured in 2017. By the end of 2017, my ministry will have distributed 340 fish cages to communities on Lakes Kariba, Tanganyika, Mweru and Bangweulu for them to engage in cage fish farming.

 

Madam Chairperson, in order to address the scarcity of high quality fingerlings, my ministry supported the development of four fingerling production centres in Mwandi, Kasempa, Nakonde and Luwingu districts. The centres are operational. Furthermore, three additional centres are under construction. Two of the centres are in Solwezi District and one in Kapiri Mposhi District.

 

The Government’s plans to establish aquaculture parks have reached an advanced stage. My ministry is finalising the costing for aquaculture parks in Kasempa, Rufunsa, Gwembe (Chipepo), Samfya and Mungwi districts. The ministry has continued with efforts of sustainably managing fishery resources in natural water bodies. In 2016, the ministry developed one fisheries management resource plan for Upper Zambezi. By the end of 2015, fish production in Zambia, from both capture fisheries and aquaculture, had increased from 100,000 metric tonnes to 105,000 metric tonnes. At the end of 2016, we expect the production to grow even more.

 

However, it should be noted that Zambia has a fish deficit of 80,000 metric tonnes. In order to reduce the post harvest losses in fisheries, my ministry, during 2016, completed the construction of freezing and storage facilities in Senanga and Machiya in the Western and Copperbelt provinces, respectively. The ministry is also constructing fish freezing facilities in Sinazongwe District of the Southern Province as well as the fish market in Itezhi-tezhi District.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Government is committed to the development of a livestock sector in order to improve livelihoods of both urban and rural communities. In 2016, there was continued support provided towards livestock infrastructure development, such as the establishment of livestock service, livestock breeding, milk collection and satellite artificial insemination centres in order to enhance production and productivity. The facilities are also intended to provide extension services, including farmer training, dipping, spraying, vaccinations, artificial insemination, de-worming, branding and castration.

 

In addition, my ministry continued to provide pasture seed to enable the farmers to plant fodder to supplement animal feed during the dry season. Out of the sixteen livestock breeding centres across the country, Kachindu in Sinazongwe; Mbesuma in Chinsali; Mukulaikwa in Shibuyunji; and Kanyama in Mwinilunga, have started offloading improved breeding stock to eligible beneficiaries.

 

Madam Chairperson, early this year, the Republican President, His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, launched a programme to sell animals from breeding centres, including Mbesuma in Chinsali District. My ministry has been running advertisements in the media inviting interested members of the public to apply for the purchase of these animals. So far, 165 applications have been received and submitted to the district and provincial fisheries and livestock co-ordinators for processing.

 

Members of the public who would like to buy the animals can collect application forms from the fisheries and livestock co-ordinators throughout the country. The completed applications will be addressed by the District Livestock Sales Committee which will determine the successful buyer. Successful applicants will be asked to deposit their payments at designated commercial banks and present the deposit slips to the ministry.

 

Madam, communities surrounding breeding centres will also benefit from the programme. So far, 120 farmers have been trained on good animal husbandry practices. With support from our co-operating partners, the Government will also empower farmers by stocking and restocking. In collaboration with our co-operating partners, my ministry managed to raise the number of beneficiaries of grants to 1,550 farmers. In addition, under the Pass-on-the Gifts Scheme, our ministry distributed forty heifers to benefit twenty household. All the beneficiaries were fully trained in improved cattle production and have since signed a binding contract that will ensure compliance to the scheme.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am happy to inform this House that the aerial spraying against tsetse flies carried out in 2014 in Sesheke, Mulobezi and Mwandi districts of the Western Province was very successful. Tsetse surveys carried out in 2016 did not catch any tsetse flies. This has opened 5,000 sq. km of land for potential agriculture development and tourism. To maintain this status, the ministry deployed a tsetse target barrier of a stretch of 25 km on the edge of the sprayed block. This will ensure that the cleared area is not re-invaded with tsetse flies.

 

Madam, regarding the control of tick borne diseases, my ministry continues to contract and rehabilitate dip tanks. Sixty-three new constructions were completed during the year, bringing the total number of newly-constructed dip tanks to 149. Further, the ministry also rehabilitated a total of 234 dip tanks countrywide. In addition, approximately 80,000 calves were being vaccinated against East Coast Fever, in the Eastern and Southern provinces.

 

Furthermore, the vaccination of 1,100,000 cattle against foot and mouth disease in high risk areas of the Southern, Western, Central and Northern provinces and 450,000 cattle against Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP) in the Western Province is ongoing. As a result of these measures, the incidences of East Coast Fever have remained low at 3 and 2.3 per cent respectively.  The ministry has also successively controlled two outbreaks of CBPP and Foot and Mouth Disease that placed 63,000 heads of cattle in Muchinga and the Northern provinces at risk. Thankfully, only forty-one heads of cattle were lost due to CBPP.

 

Madam, to curb the spread of Anthrax in the recent outbreak in Chama District, the ministry burnt five hippo carcasses and decontaminated the whole area surrounding the Baghdad pond, where anthrax spores where found. This should minimise further outbreaks.

 

Madam Chairperson, to support animal disease control, my ministry has continued to produce vaccines at the Central Veterinary Research Institute (CVRI). Currently 400,000 doses of blackleg vaccine, 640,000 doses of haemorhagic septicemia vaccine, 34,824 doses of rabies, 20,000 sachets of soya inoculums and 4,795,500 doses of New Castle vaccines were produced.

 

Madam, regarding disease diagnosis, my ministry attended to 2,171 farmers who submitted different samples of disease diagnosis, surveillance and livestock movement certification. The construction of new laboratories in districts and provinces is ongoing in order to bring the veterinary diagnostic services closer to the farmers. Currently, the Choma, Chipata, Mongu and Solwezi provincial laboratories are near completion while works on the Kasama and Ndola laboratories are still ongoing. In addition, the ministry has intensified surveillance for bee and fish diseases that are important for trade and production.

 

Madam Chairperson, my ministry recognises the important role that knowledge in information technology plays in increasing production and productivity of fisheries and livestock. That is why we will continue working on improving the effectiveness of the extension delivery system. The ministry is very concerned about the high extension worker to farmer ratio which has put additional pressure on the existing extension staff especially given that some camps are vacant with no personnel operating in those camps thereby denying the farmers the much needed information and innovations.

 

Madam, in order to manage and improve effective and efficient delivery service, 150 front-line extension officers will be recruited, 112 replacements for those who left the ministry through deaths, resignations and retirements will be made. The recruitment was part of the 2015 recruitment slots. The officers who were recruited included veterinary assistants, livestock technicians and fisheries assistants. These officers have been posted across the country.

 

Madam Chairperson, my ministry is in charge of two training institutions, namely Kasaka Fisheries Training Institute in Kafue and the Zambia Institute of Animal Health (ZIAH) in Mazabuka. The colleges were established in order to train front-line personnel in fisheries and livestock production and related areas. In order to have an effective and efficient human resource, my ministry has continued to monitor and evaluate the performance of the colleges, promote curriculum review and co-ordinate staff training.

 

Madam Chairperson, allow me to give an outlook for 2017. In the 2017 National Budget, my ministry has been allocated the K642,686,689 against the K708,533,323 that was allocated in 2016. This is a reduction of about 9 per cent over the 2016 Budget allocation.

 

Madam, with this allocation, my ministry intends to implement the programmes for the development of the fisheries and livestock sectors. Further, my ministry has rationalised resources and avoided spreading the resources too thinly. It also prioritised strategic programmes which can have immediate impact in the short to medium term.

 

Madam Chairperson, my ministry has allocated K120,043,554 to support both capture and aquaculture development in the fisheries sector. My ministry will continue with the development of aquaculture in order to improve fish production and productivity as part of the plan. The Government will continue with the establishment of aquaculture parks in Rufunsa, Chipepo in Gwembe, Petauke, Kasempa and Mungwi districts. The parks will contain infrastructure for fingerling production, fish feed production, fish freezing facilities and fish processing. Further, my ministry will support aquaculture development through cage and pen culture production. This and other measures are expected to increase fish production and reduce the 80,000 metric tonnes fish deficit the country is currently faced with.

 

 

Madam Chairperson, the country has continued to face the challenge of low livestock production and productivity. To help improve the sector, my ministry has set aside K154,092,667 for livestock development. The funds will go towards livestock stocking and restocking, establishment of liquid nitrogen plan to support artificial insemination, maintenance of livestock breeding centres and establishment of milk collection centres, among others.

Madam, Zambia lacks accurate and reliable livestock statistics for planning and decision making, including planning vaccination campaigns. The statistics currently being used are those collected during the annual post-harvest surveys conducted in collaboration with the Central Statistical Office (COS). The figures are collected from random samples, thereby failing to give a full picture of livestock population in Zambia. My ministry has allocated K50 million towards enabling the conduct of a comprehensive livestock census. It is my hope and trust that with this commitment, our co-operating partners will come on board to support this important exercise.

 

Madam Chairperson, pests and diseases have continued to affect the production and productivity of livestock in Zambia. My ministry will continue with the measures aimed at preventing and controlling diseases, especially those of national economic importance such as food and mouth, CBPP, trypanosomiasis and New Castle. To this effect, my ministry will continue with various vaccination programmes, manufacturing of vaccines, conduct of pest and disease surveillances and aerial spray, among others.

 

My Ministry has allocated K150,822,473 for pest and disease control and prevention. The ministry will also continue with dip tank construction and rehabilitation. Further, my ministry intends to commence the revamping of the Cordon Line, which will stretch from Jimbe in the North-Western Province to Shang’ombo in the Western Province. This will assist in the prevention of trans-boundary animal diseases. My ministry has allocated K10 million towards the construction of the Cordon Line.

 

Madam Chairperson, infrastructure plays a vital role in the development of the fisheries and livestock sectors. My ministry has allocated K26,159,190 for infrastructure development which will be used in improving fisheries, livestock and veterinary research stations. My ministry recognises the importance of reliable infrastructure in undertaking any meaningful research on livestock and fisheries.

 

Madam Chairperson, effective extension service delivery in an ever changing global environment is more than essential in achieving higher production and productivity levels in the fisheries and livestock sectors. Appropriate and timely technologies have to be disseminated from research to the farmers through extension services. K10,889,835 has been allocated to support extension service delivery.

 

A conducive policy environment is critical for the effective implementation of various programmes outlined in our plan. It is also a prerequisite for the participation of other stakeholders, particularly the private sector, in the development of the fisheries and livestock sectors. A total of K5 million has been put aside for the review of fisheries and livestock policies and legislation. During 2017, my ministry intends to realise standalone fisheries and livestock policies and further formulate and review some of the relevant pieces of legislation which include:

 

1. the formulation of regulations for the Animal Health Act for 2010;

 

1. the amendment of the Veterinary and Paraprofessions Act of 2010;

 

1. the formulation of regulations of the Animal Identification Act of 2010;

 

1. the formulation of the Diary Development Act of 2010;

 

1. the formulation of the Livestock Development Act;

 

1. the formulation of aquaculture regulations; and

 

1. the review of fisheries regulations for the Act of 2011.

 

My ministry intends to carry out the above-mentioned activities in collaboration with our co-operating partners and other stakeholders who are also keen in ensuring that a level playing field is created through establishment of a favourable policy environment.

 

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, may I, once again, reiterate the Government’s commitment to the development of the fisheries and livestock sectors to ensure job creation, poverty reduction, economic growth and diversification. To this effect, allow me to thank the Government for the invaluable support given to the development of the fisheries and livestock sectors and prioritising the agricultural sector in general as a key driver to national economic growth and diversification.

 

Madam Chairperson, to enable us to attain our objectives in 2017, we need the support of all stakeholders in the sector. May I, therefore, urge all hon. Members of this august House to unreservedly support the 2017 budget for my ministry. May I also appeal to all my colleagues in the country to remain resolute in overcoming all the challenges and drive our nation forward through support to the development of the fisheries and livestock sectors.

 

Finally, Madam Chairperson, let me thank all our co-operating partners, civil society organisations, private sector and, indeed, the farmers for the support that they have been rendering in advancing our noble cause. Once again, I thank you for according me this opportunity to inform the nation through this august House on my ministry’s policy direction for 2017.

 

I thank you and may God bless us all.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Imakando (Mongu Central): Madam Chairperson, I want to thank you for the opportunity to debate this Vote. As I begin doing so, I want to tell the hon. Minister that I fully support the policy his ministry has taken. It appears to be very consistent in ensuring that the livestock sector grows.

 

Madam Chairperson, the livestock sector is very important to Zambia’s economy. The hon. Minister has told us that it contributes about 42 per cent to the GDP for agriculture. The hon. Minister has also emphasised its contribution to nutrition, food security and the wellbeing of our people. The livestock sector is critical to many social events. Many beautiful ladies, and I apologise, would probably have to be married through some form of exchange with livestock.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Imakando: So, the livestock sector is very important. There can be no meaningful ceremonies without the use of livestock products. Over and above this, the livestock sector provides inputs into other production systems. It provides inputs in the crop, manufacturing and tourism sectors as well as sports. However, this is a sector that is underfunded. You may wish to know that there has been a drop of about K66 million in the budget for this sector. When you look at the budget for the agricultural crop sector, it has more than doubled and you wonder whether we are really doing justice to the livestock sector.

 

Madam Chairperson, this is probably because of historical problems. The livestock sector has always been overshadowed by the crop sector, particularly maize production. The livestock sector has always been an underdog and always been overshadowed by the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). If you look at the budget of the livestock sector, it is not even half of the crop sector and yet, it contributes 42 per cent to the agricultural GDP. It probably contributes the largest number of jobs in the agricultural sector as a whole.

 

Madam Chairperson, there is need to deal with this mismatch of resources. You may wish to know that the current population of cattle is probably around 4 million. There has not been much growth, yet the potential of this country is in excess of 10 million head of cattle. We have sung about this potential, but we are failing to exploit it because we do not make meaningful investments in the livestock sector.

 

Madam Chairperson, you may wish to know that it is only the poultry sector that has registered growth. The other sectors have either remained stagnant or have declined because of under-funding. It is important that as we carefully look at job creation, we think about elevating this sector on the basis of its contributions. The contribution of 42 per cent to the GDP from agriculture deserves to be noted and rewarded. We must reward production. The job creation we are planning for our youths will come from this sector. This is a sector that offers us an opportunity to create jobs and has both forward and backward linkages. Manufacturing takes care of the cotton cakes, groundnut cakes, sunflower cakes and maize bran from the agriculture sector. The manufacturing sector buys a lot of crop residue. The agriculture sector provides input for the manufacturing sector. Hides or animal skins also come from this sector. Even sports benefit from this sector. Therefore, we must reward it with corresponding investment.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me focus on some of the programmes that the ministry intends to push for, beginning with the famous Cordon Line. I understand where my colleagues in the sector are coming from. They would like to keep diseases away from entering Zambia and they think that the cordon line is the best approach. The cordon Line Alone is not enough. If the Government is going to construct a Cordon Line, it must also ensure that we have patrol guards who will traverse the Cordon Line so that other animals will not cross into Zambia. The Government must also sensitise communities about the cordon line so that they can respect it. Otherwise, the cordon wire will find its way to people’s small farms and there will be no Cordon Line. In my view, the Cordon Line we intend to construct will be a waste of resources. However, rather than take this money away from the Western Province, we can use it to support cattle breeding or improving the breeds. When we improve the breeds and multiply the animals, the farmers will be interested in looking after their animals and they will become a better cordon line themselves than this artificial Cordon Line the Government intends to construct.

 

Madam Chairperson, the other budget line I wish to talk about is the livestock census. First of all, the K50 million allocated to the census will not do an effective job. We have a lot of livestock in this country and when we talk about conducting a census, we should include pigs, goats, chickens, sheep and many others. Allocating K50 million to the census will just enable us to take a few samples. We will just take a few samples here and there and probably create a deterministic model and come up with some numbers. This K50 million will be wasted. I suggest that we use this money to support extension services or multiply our livestock.

 

Madam Chairperson, aquaculture is, indeed, the way to go. Most of our water bodies have been over-fished. I welcome the effort to produce fingerlings and restock our lakes. This is an initiative that should be supported. However, I must say that when we conduct this activity, we must do it equitably. We must spread these resources fairly across Zambia where we have water bodies. I see some sort of gravitation towards certain regions that have already over-benefitted. I would like to suggest to the hon. Minister that as he distributes these resources for aquaculture, he should be equitable. He should show that we are, indeed, “One Zambia, One Nation”.

 

Mr Ngulube: In conclusion!

 

Dr Imakando: Madam Chairperson, those who are always in a hurry to conclude other people’s speeches, ...

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Tutwa!

 

Dr Imakando: ... must appreciate that the livestock sector offers us a lot of benefits. As such, we must give it corresponding resources. When you look at the Yellow Book, you are going to see amounts like K5,000 here, K10,000 there and K3,000 here that do not make sense. There are thinly spread resources in the Budget and we know what happens to thinly spread resources. They make no impact. They cannot move anything.

 

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, let me ask the hon. Minister of Finance to review the budget for fisheries and livestock. It cannot go down by K66 million when the crop sector budget has more than doubled, yet the livestock sector contributes 42 per cent to the GDP for agriculture. This is unfair. It is important that we allocate extra resources to this very important ministry if we are going to enjoy the benefits I outlined earlier on.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Madam Chairperson, I acknowledge the debate by the previous speaker and take it as my own. I will also highlight a few points in addition to what has been said already.

 

Madam Chairperson, I cannot over emphasise the importance of this ministry. A lot has been said. I am not going to compare the allocations between different sectors, but I will say that this is a very important ministry. Actually, it is more important than some ministries which some people think are more important and get more resources.

 

Madam Chairperson, from the outset, I wish to talk about fisheries because my constituency has a portion of it and I am going to suggest the way forward to the hon. Minister with regard to fisheries.

 

Madam, part of Kazungula Constituency is a fishing area and the fishing area includes Mabomva, Kasaya and Sikaunzu areas. I would be happy if the hon. Minister considered the people in Kazungula, especially those living in those areas. This is because these are good areas for promoting fish farming. It is also important to let the people realise the nutritional value of fish both to the local people and also the clients that sometimes come from Livingstone to buy fish. As we all know, this country has a huge deficit in this sector. Hence, we need to help small scale farmers around that area to promote their aspirations in this sector.

 

Madam, debating on this Vote, I will try to concentrate more on livestock. As there is a need to focus our development in order to improve our economy, there is also a need to shift our mindset from mining to agriculture, especially I the area of cattle rearing.

 

In previous debates, this House has been informed that there is a need to promote people who do various activities in different regions where they live. Regions that have specialised in specific activities must be allowed to excel in areas they know best. For example, those who know how to keep cattle best, need to be promoted and encouraged. Those who know how to plant cassava, maize, rice and many other crops you can talk about on this Floor, also need encouragement.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Livune: Madam Chairperson, considering the importance of livestock and the drive that the hon. Minister has for diversification, it would be good to have some provinces declared provinces of excellence. Maybe, he could select one, two or three provinces and concentrate on them to ensure that we put up all the necessary facilities to enhance the production of beef in those areas, especially that we cannot export our beef. So, it would have been prudent that we do everything possible to help farmers improve on the quality of beef so that we can compete internationally. Undoubtedly, cattle production is as good as an open cheque. However, there are some challenges. Provinces have been declared, the concentration is diluted and funding has been reduced. How best shall we deal with this issue in order to maximise our benefits from it? We have so many challenges.

 

Most veterinary camps are so big that the veterinary officers fail to manage them. What has the ministry done reduce the sizes of veterinary camps so that veterinary officers can service the camps effectively? So, it is important that we demarcate the big veterinary camps into smaller manageable sizes.

 

Madam Chairperson, housing is also another challenge in the camps. Veterinary officers who work in rural areas live in houses without electricity and water, yet they are as educated as those who work in urban areas. Veterinary officers in rural areas look as though they are doing pro bono work. For this reason, there is a need to find ways of motivating them. It is not only a salary that motivates an employee, but also the conditions of service. Veterinary officers are as qualified as people in a profession that rates itself learned.

 

Madam, Chairperson, the other issue that needs to be looked at as that of transport in the veterinary camps. For a long time, we have spoken about motorbikes for veterinary officers, but it is high time we upgraded. The Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries is projected as an important ministry, yet we still promote the issue of bicycles and motorbikes in the ministry. This is the rainy season, and you do not expect an officer to ride a motorbike around in such weather. I think it is time we upgraded. There are small four by four motor vehicles that can be used in the veterinary camps. We can get a motor vehicle per camp to help the officers go round the camps in rural areas. For instance, we can get them small Suzuki 4 X 4 vehicles or a better model of a small car with a small engine capacity and less fuel consumption. I think we are not asking for too much, but this would go a long way towards helping them do their job.

 

Madam Chairperson, we have complained time and again on the Floor of the House that we have qualified people in the districts who do their work diligently. However, the only challenge they have is that of underfunding or, sometimes, no funding at all. Nonetheless, this does not take away their expertise. On a-day-to day basis, they manage their areas of operation without a without any funding. Last time, I said that the livestock census was a wastage of resources. Since, there is a structured way of reporting on a monthly basis, are you telling me that officers in the veterinary camps do not make reports? If they do, what do they write in those reports? I am aware that in many camps, there is a structured report where officers must indicate on a monthly basis how many animals were carried over from the last stock, how many have been born and the closing stock for the month. Thereafter, reports are sent to their supervisors on a monthly basis up to the level of Permanent Secretary. So, I assume that one can get the figures he/he wants from various veterinary camps or districts at any time.

 

Madam, the hon. Minister is talking about allocating a huge amount to this sector. What does he want to achieve? Can he be explicit. Is it a way of enriching people or letting them go on a jolly ride? Like other speakers have said, I want to think that this money can be used to help us improve this sector that has been projected as important. Hon. Minister, that is why there should be co-ordination among Government ministries. For instance, the roads in my area are in a pathetic state. So, can there be proper co-ordination.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Mr Livune: Some of you are urban dwellers and have never been to our places. So, allow us to explain to you the real situations in our constituencies. The roads are in a horrible state. Civil servants like veterinary officers have challenges of mobility. That is why we are talking about a co-ordinated approach in working on the roads. If the roads are properly done, veterinary officers will drive safely and respond quickly to farmers’ needs. The teacher will also drive safely to school and so on and so forth. So, if we use the available resources to improve the road sector, we shall have a well co-ordinate road sector that can benefit all the people.

 

Madam Chairperson, we need a co-ordinated approach to improve the bad road network in our areas.

 

Mr Ngulube: Question!

 

Mr Livune: We can help improve the road sector by engaging in dialogue at ministerial level so that civil servants in the rural areas can work properly.

 

Madam Chairperson, there is a lot of work to be done. The livestock sector has got big challenges. Those of us from areas where there is no water need dams. Many hon. Members here come from places where there is no water. As a result, animals have challenges finding water to drink. You can sympathise with the animals because if they drink water today, the next day they will go without water, which is not healthy.

 

Madam Chairperson, we also need dip tanks. Many areas lack dip tanks and the few that are there need to be maintained. There is a need for veterinary assistants to sensitise people in their respective areas about the importance of maintaining dip tanks. However, they are unable to go round the camps on account of a lack of logistics. We need to synergise so that we can achieve the best in this sector.

 

Madam Chairperson, we will continue talking about dip tanks, dams and the need for continuous sensitisation on vaccination. The Government may do a few things pro bono, but each farmer should take care of his/her cattle. Drugs like Oxyject and Dexamethasone can be bought by farmers at individual level. The Government should motivate farmers by investing in this sector so that it can supplement the mining sector which is shrinking.

 

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about nutrition. It is true that during the dry season, animals have serious challenges of nutrition. Therefore, the Government should take the lead by providing nutrition or by motivating the private sector to produce food for animals at a larger scale. Maize bran is made from maize, but it is also important to deal with the issue of roughage. The grass needed for roughage is normally produced in bales. Chisamba in Central Province, does very well in the production of grass, but it would be better if more provinces produced bales of hay so that farmers can buy them closer to home.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am sad because I lost an animal with its female calf whilst it was giving birth.

 

Hon. Members: Sorry.

 

Mr Ngulube: Female?

 

Mr Livune: Yes, female baby. I lost a good animal which was called Flora.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Livune: It is important for us to work hard at improving nutrition. During this time of the year, animals are very weak and, when they are due ...

 

The Chairperson: Order, Hon. Livune on that point of Flora!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Madam Chairperson, from the onset, I support the Vote for the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock. However, wish to appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance to increase the allocation for the ministry in 2018.

 

Madam Chairperson, I will only comment on the Cordon Line. The allocation towards the Cordon Line will be better used to establish a livestock breeding centre in the Western Province. In 2008, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government wasted K800 million on the Cordon Line. Currently, there is no wire, as the barbed wire has been taken by people because there are no guards to man the Cordon Line. The allocation for the Cordon Line will be better used to establish a livestock breeding centre in the Western Province because the people of that province depend on cattle for their livelihood. In addition, the breed that we have is of very poor quality. We need to improve the breed so that the people can get better prices for their animals.

 

Madam Chairperson, the ministry has done well to contain the Contagious Bovine Plueuro Pneumonia (CBPP). I appeal to the ministry to lift the ban on cattle movement from the Western Province to Lusaka and the Copperbelt because the poor farmers are getting a very low deal from Zambeef in Mongu. They sell their animals at K17 per kg which is not much. I appeal to the hon. Minister to ensure that the ban is lifted so that farmers can transport their animals to Lusaka and the Copperbelt where they can get a better price.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Chairperson: That is commendable.

 

Any further debate?

 

Mr Nkombo and Mr Michelo rose.

 

Mr Nkombo resumed his seat.

 

The Chairperson: That is leadership.

 

Mr Ngulube: It is a cartel!

 

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the policy statement for the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock. I support the budget, as it is our custom on this side of the House. However, I am saddened that the ministry has received fewer funds. The Ministry of Agriculture is allocated way more than the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, yet the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock contributes a lot of money towards the agriculture industry.

 

Madam Chairperson, I feel good when I hear about livestock, especially cattle, because Jesus was born in a stable. It is a very important sector. Some of our friends may not have been aware of this before today.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, two of God’s best creation are animals and women.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Michelo: Once you have a woman and cattle, you are a complete human being.

 

The Chairperson: Point of order!

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: You may continue but, please, do not compare women to cows.

 

Mr Michelo: It is because of the way I treasure my women and my cattle.

 

Madam Chairperson, some people might tease us by calling us kachemas, meaning keepers of cattle. When people tease people from the South for being kachemas, we feel very proud. We are the best kachemas, and we feel proud to be called kachemas.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Michelo: In Tonga, we say mwembei which means keeper of cattle. It is a very important name, and people should keep calling us kachemas because we feel proud.

 

The Chairperson: Can you debate the Vote.

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, cattle are a good mobile cheque. If we encourage youths to venture into livestock farming, we will not have a livestock vacuum in the near future. Youths should be encouraged to keep animals so that in the next thirty years or so, this country will not be hit by hunger. We are aware that there will be hunger in the world in the next thirty years. Therefore, if we do not encourage youths to join this sector, the world will definitely be hungry.

 

Madam Chairperson, there is also the issue of creating a conducive environment for farmers. Beef and dairy farmers keep their animals under very difficult conditions. The Ministry of Agriculture has allowed maize bran to be exported to neighbouring countries leaving the local livestock farmers vulnerable, as very little remains for their animals.

 

Madam Chairperson, the dry season in Zambia is long and farmers do not have enough feed for their animals during this season. The ministry responsible for issuing export permits for maize bran issues them at will without any regulation. We should, first of all, ensure that farmers get enough and, thereafter, export the surplus to our neighbouring countries. Our maize bran is always exported to Botswana. For example, I do not think that President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe can let his farmers suffer. This is the reason we want to ask our Government and our President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, ...

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mulenga: Ema MPs aya! Ati our President!

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Michelo: ... to ensure that maize bran is not allowed to be exported to our neighbouring countries before satisfying the local market.

 

Madam Chairperson, there is also the issue of the construction of dams. We do not have enough dams for our animals, especially in Bweengwa. We have the second highest number of cattle in the whole country.

 

Mr Ngulube: The whole world!

 

Mr Michelo: Not the whole world my dear. Cool down young man.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, we need more dams where our animals can be drinking water from. We mostly depend on the Kafue River, but this is not good for animals because they cover long distances in search of water.

 

Madam Chairperson, we would also like to request the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock to provide more water for our animals by drilling more boreholes and tapping water from the main rivers of our country. That way, our animals will be well looked after.

 

Madam Chairperson, there is also the issue of communicable diseases like Anthrax, Tuberculosis and Brucellosis. If we look after our animals well, they will cushion us.

 

Madam Chairperson, young ladies are vulnerable to Brucellosis. If a young lady eats the beef of an animal that is infected with Brucellosis, it is highly likely that she will not conceive when she gets married. It is very dangerous and, we should, therefore, look after our animals very well.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, there is a need to train farmers on improvement of breed. Livestock extension officers have become sibukus, meaning village headmen. They are not even taken for refresher courses. They stay on for a long time. Some officers may have been posted to different places at the age of twenty. They are now fifty and have grey hair, but still live in the same villages. Some of them have forgotten how to look after the farmers under their care. So, I am encouraging the Government to provide in-service training to extension officers for we live in the digital era and a changing world where farmers need not be left behind.

 

Madam Chairperson, if we just construct artificial insemination (AI) centres without training farmers on how to detect an animal that is on heat, the centres will be a waste of time and resources. Farmers should be encouraged to find time to observe their cows so that it is easy to detect which ones are on heat. If one does not have a wire fence, one cannot manage to detect an animal on heat. The best thing to do is to give farmers soft loans so that they can have a few paddocks were animals can be kept. That way, it will be easy to detect animals that are on heat and those that are sick.

 

Madam Chairperson, farmers should also be trained on how to assess cattle. If you look at –

 

Oh! My time is running out.

 

Mr Nkombo: It is okay!

 

Mr Michelo: The current crop of livestock extension officers and farmers cannot assess cattle, yet this is an important aspect of livestock farming. Animals should be assessed well. You cannot go to a neighbouring farmer and select an animal that with the intention of buying it without assessing it. One should look at the ramp angle, the rear leg section and even the adder attachment on dairy animals. These features I have mentioned are very important.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, the way the Patriotic Front (PF) Government does not know how to conduct business. Whatever it is doing is not well co-ordinated. The PF will say this today and, tomorrow, will say another thing. So, I wish to ask the PF Government to seriously look into the affairs of the farmers by taking them on exchange visits to countries like Kenya or Botswana that are doing very well in the livestock sector.

 

Madam Chairperson, most of the people on your right are good at talking, not implementing programmes. That is not good for the people. We cannot develop our country like that. The population of livestock keeps dwindling because we are not looking after farmers very well.

 

Madam Chairperson, in Kenya, the total human population is about 43 million and there are 24 million head of cattle. In Zambia, we only have 4 million head of cattle and a human population of 15 million. We should try to take our farmers to our neighbouring countries so that they see how their colleagues manage the livestock sector.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would also like to talk about the high cost of production here in Zambia. Maize bran is very expensive, electricity tariffs have been increased, the price of fuel has also gone up and the subsidies, which we talk about almost everyday, have been removed. This is serious. The Western has not removed subsidies on most of the things that farmers need. Here, the Government has even introduced duty on milk utensils. Electrical milking equipment also attracts duty, yet there is supposed to be import duty free. If we remove duty on most agricultural and livestock equipment, farmers will be encouraged to venture into the livestock farming.

 

Madam Chairperson, if  you look at the –

 

Mr Ngulube: The!

 

Mr Michelo: Wait, young man.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Michelo: Madam Chairperson, it is very important to ensure that the animals are well fed. The moment a farmer enters his/her kraal, he/she should be able to tell if the animals are well fed. It is also important for the farmer to know how to spread manure and to know about rumination. I would also like to urge the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock to visit some of the farmers and dairy co-operatives in the Southern Province. In fact, the dairy co-operatives pay farmers well. However, the maize co-operatives are not very good, but people join them to get the fertiliser and seed, and then sale it. Therefore, we should encourage farmers to form dairy co-operatives.

 

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, I thank you.

 

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the statement. I would also like to thank the hon. Members for the positive contributions.

 

Madam Chairperson, the livestock and fisheries sector is very important, especially to this country. If one was to look at where wealth is created, certainly it would be from the fisheries and livestock sector. We are blessed with water bodies in this country. So, one would not expect us to import fish. Therefore, I am glad that the hon. Minister gave us a policy direction, and I hope that we will be able to walk the talk to ensure that our people benefit from the fish protein.

 

Madam Chairperson, not long ago, the Global Hunger Index was released and Zambia was rated third hungriest country in the world after the Central African Republic and Chad. This should not be the case because we are too rich to be poor. In Kanchibiya where I come from, we have the Bangweulu Swamps and river bodies, and there are energetic young men and women who are looking for employment. However, having realised that employment may not be forthcoming, they are ready to form co-operatives so that they can develop their own industry. That way, they will have resources to feed their children, send them to school, access health care and invest.

 

Madam Chairperson, the challenge that we have is our inability to walk the talk. If this year passes without those water bodies being utilised, then, we will not progress and next year we will still have to talk about the same issue. In supporting the Budget and the hon. Minister’s policy statement, I would like to see the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock utilise the water bodies. You must take great interest and ensure that fishing skills and conservation methods are inculcated in our people. We are talking about awareness programmes, especially people near the water bodies. Are we going to put fish in these water bodies and conserve it? Are we going to identify the market for fish? If the answer is yes, then, we would be creating employment and making fish, which is a source of protein, cheaper for our citizens. That is one aspect that is lacking and has earned us the ranking of third hungriest country in the world, which we should not be.

 

Madam Chairperson, as regards livestock, I would like to give an example of a young man in the Middle East who left his dwelling place with nothing. However, on his return, he had a lot of livestock. Right now, he is one of the richest men in the Middle East. When he returned to his land, the gross domestic product (GDP) of that nation went up. Livestock is an important measure in wealth creation. If you look at our countrymen and women in the South and South-West, you will see how well they are doing as regards cattle rearing. We have good land and able bodied people. Therefore, we can keep livestock not just to feed ourselves, but to export as well. What are we doing about it? I am greatly encouraged to hear the hon. Minister give that policy statement. However, I am concerned about the budgetary allocation to this sector. I am also concerned about access to the areas which can help us create wealth. Due to poor feeder roads, there is no access to the water bodies and the areas where we can rear animals that will help us multiply our resources.

 

Madam Chairperson, we need the facilities in order to create employment for our people. We need feeder roads so, we can have access to these areas. We must not just have access to offices here in Lusaka, but the rural areas such as Kanchibiya. Without taking much time, I wish to thank you for noticing me and giving me an opportunity to speak.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Katambo: Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank all hon. Members who contributed to the debate on the 2017 budget for my ministry. I have taken note of the suggestions and concerns raised by Hon. Dr Imakando, Hon. Dr Malama, Hon. Livune, Hon. Ndalamei and Hon. Michelo. As indicated earlier on, the budgetary allocation to our ministry is a reflection of the limited resource envelope that the country has. As the hon. Minister of Finance has always indicated, we cannot spend what we do not have. However, I have taken note of the concerns that have been raised, especially in regard to the Southern Province. I would like to mention that 47 per cent of the dip tanks and spray races that the Government has taken to the Southern Province is a way of showing its care and dedication to the rearing of livestock and small ruminants.

 

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Livune talked about the Kasiya/Mambova areas in Kazungula as areas for aqua-culture projects. We will extend the programme to other areas, particularly those that have high aqua-culture potential.

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

(Debate adjourned)

 

_______

 

HOUSE RESUMED

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

(Progress reported)

 

_______

 

The House adjourned at 1258 hours until 0900 hours on Tuesday, 13^thDecember, 2016.

 

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WRITTEN REPLY TO QUESTION

 

MARKETS IN KANCHIBIYA

 

50. Dr Malama (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Local Government:

 

1. whether the Government had any plans to construct markets in the following Chiefdoms in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency:

 

1. Kopa;

 

1. Mpepo;

 

1. Kabinga;

 

1. Luchembe; and

 

1. Chilundaponde;

 

1. if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

 

1. if there were no such plans, why.

 

The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct rural markets in all the mentioned chiefdoms through the local authorities. This is aimed at reducing poverty through enhanced trading areas of socio-economic goods and services.

 

Sir, the Government intends to implement the projects for the construction of rural markets under the 2018 Annual Work Plan. However, the Ministry of Local Government plans to engage local authorities to construct rural markets in the mentioned areas with financing from the Constituency Development Funds (CDF) AND using a phased approach should the funding be inadequate.

 

I thank you, Sir.