DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 7th December, 2012

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to acquaint the House with some idea of the Business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 11th December, 2012, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply to consider Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2012. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2013 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the following Heads:

    Heads 88, 90 – 98 – Office of the President – Provinces; and

    Head 99 – Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 12th December, 2012, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Member’s Motions, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2013 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure, and will continue to consider the following Heads:

    Head 88, 90 – 98 – Office of the President – Provinces; and

    Head 99 – Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure.

Sir, it is my intention, on this day, all things being equal, to move a Motion to suspend the relevant Standing Orders so as to enable the House to complete all Business on the Order Paper and, thereafter, adjourn sine die. There will be no Vice-President’s Question Time next week.

Laughter

The Vice-President: I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: At least, not this year.

Laughter

__________

THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the Committee on Agriculture recommended that there was a land-related problem in the Southern Province, particularly in Chief Sipatunyana’s area. When are you going to resolve the issue of the land on Farm No. 72, former Rural Reconstruction Scheme, which the chief is demanding to be given to him, since this issue is under your Department for Resettlement?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am happy to get that question. The Department of Resettlement has about sixty settlements that it is dealing with that come from all kinds of sources, such as the Rural Reconstruction Schemes, …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on my right!

The Vice-President: … Back to the Land Programmes and Refugee Camps. Part of the process on-going currently in resettlement involves identifying which of these schemes we are going to attempt to commercialise and which ones we are going to do various things with, like handing them back to chiefs who are short of customary land in their own areas. The one mentioned by Hon. Muntanga is on the stack. It is for consideration as we evolve and produce a definitive policy for the department.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, there are reports from the Eastern Province that some of the cotton farmers, last year, received fake fertiliser from one of the companies sponsoring cotton farmers. What has the Government done to prevent this from repeating itself this coming farming season?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if the allegation is true, one presumes that there will be some sort of legal process that has taken place to hold the company liable. If not, then we are living in archaic an situation in which the Government has to come down from the top and start saying that it is fake fertiliser, rather than ordinary concentrating on commercial legislation. One would hope that, if there has been some sort of legal process on this matter, the company will be very reluctant to do it again.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, since the rainy season is on, what is the Government doing to ensure that the feeder roads are passable throughout the country?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government is continuing with various road maintenance programmes. I mean, stopping, obviously, when there is a storm, but continuing when it dries up. We are continuing to maintain the road system and have allocated more money to roads than ever before.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, what is Zambia’s position on the Southern African Development Community (SADC) gender issues as we know that the country has performed well, especially in the appointment of our female counterparts to various positions?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the position is that we go along with SADC resolutions on this matter and we are an enthusiastic equality proponent. I do not see any mystery that the hon. Questioner is trying to get some insight into.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, what should Tanzania-Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA) employees do to survive because, so far, they have not been paid their October and November salaries, and they hear that they may not be paid their December salaries?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, K8 billion has been transferred to the Zambian side of TAZARA for the payment of salaries. 

Mr Simbao indicated dissent.

The Vice-President: I see the hon. Member shaking his head vigorously. Well, I can shake mine back, …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … but there is nothing we do to verify financial information on the Floor of this House. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, what is the security situation in the Western-Province? As you may be aware, the people of Kalabo are living in fear because it seems that the number of army personnel has increased.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am not sure whether it is true that the number of military personnel west of the Zambezi has increased. Even if it were true, I would neither confirm nor deny because it has a bearing upon possible operations. However, why would anyone be alarmed by the presence of peace-keeping or order-preserving authorities?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: If it was filling up with Karavinas, then I would be sympathetic to the question.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, while we appreciate the creation of new districts, as well as the appointments of the District Commissioners (DCs), I would like to know why the Government has continued to appoint sub-standard DC’s.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is a question in the order of, ‘have you stopped beating your wife yet?’, because it actually includes an allegation as part of the question. I refute that allegation. Who says that the DCs are sub-standard? What would he lay on the Table to demonstrate a sub-standard DC?

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, in the Chalala area, almost every household is sinking a borehole and constructing septic tanks. The probability of fecal contamination is very high in this area. What is the Government doing to avert this looming health catostrophe?

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Catastrophe.

Mr Speaker: I think, he has communicated his point.

Laughter 

The Vice-President: The supply of water and sewerage services to every citizen of a town is a responsibility, under the law, of the council of the town. It so happens that the council created what is called the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company (LWSC), which is a sub-contractor of sorts. The LWSC is aware of the problems in Chalala, which is the consequence of an unfortunate policy of giving out un-serviced land. I hope we can stop that under this administration. However, piped water and sewerage services are being installed there. There is also the US$350 million which is coming from the Millennium Challenge Account and gives us some of the capital we need to sort out places like Chalala.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I have been in the House for the past seven years and know that His Honour the Vice-President has been in Parliament longer than me. The amendments done to the Yellow Book, this year, are unprecedented. It is tantamount to rewriting the entire Yellow Book.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Is this a sign of failure by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, or do you still regard it as a learning curve?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the issues, as I recall, were generated by the rounding off of ngwees. It is a routine matter that we are dealing with. I feel sorry for the trees that have been cut down in order to generate the paper for these amendments when common sense could have saved us had it been shared by both sides of the House. However, I have seen worse. I was in this House in 1992 when the whole Yellow Book had to be withdrawn because there were very substantial errors in it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, there is an allegations that the PF Government is out to destroy the MMD. May His Honour the Vice-President confirm that.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Confirm.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I was very privileged, ten months ago, to be in Gabon watching the Ivory Coast team finishing itself … 

Laughter

The Vice-President: ... and was accused of being there to finish them with some kind of Juju that I had brought from Zambia.

Laughter

The Vice-President: I think that the same situation prevails here. I do not see any people I know to be members of the PF running around in the news, meetings or press conferences held by the MMD. However, I do notice many people attacking each other within that party. We just watch with keen interest and even enthusiasm.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, reports from Kanakantapa Farming Block in Chongwe District claim that they have been allocated less FISP packs. Has the Government reduced the supply?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm that. May I also remind the hon. Member that, if she really wants an answer to questions like that, then, she must give me time to pick up a telephone and ask the appropriate people. It does not take long, but I cannot do it from the Floor of this House. This question is similar to that of a traditional ceremony in that it is an annual event in which there are allegations of fraud and other things, which has many aspects to it. So, please, let me have the specifics of questions like this even half an hour before the answer is required so that I can answer intelligently.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President spoke very strongly against the grabbing of land by PF cadres earlier in the year. However, the scourge has continued. Earlier this week, a University of Zambia nursery worker was almost killed by PF cadres.

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame.

Professor Lungwangwa: What is the Government doing to stop this?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question and assure him that I still stand by the condemnation of cadres of any party who do that, especially since the kind of people who do these things change t-shirts instantaneously to suit the prevailing climate. There is a squatter settlement that we are trying to deal with in Chongwe. The MMD branch that was there suddenly became a PF branch. They took off the blue t-shirt and put on the green one. However, even if they were sincere …

Hon. Opposition Member: Who?

Mr Speaker: Do not question His Hon. the Vice-President in that fashion.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I did not catch that fashion, but I thank you for the protection.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Sir, we are actually against it and we are taking action. We have had several meetings now. The last one was just this week with the police and the lands officers and their operations are planned. We will not stand for anarchy. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, now that there are problems in Barotseland where there is the Barotse Liberation Army (BLA), as confirmed by the hon. Minister of Defence…

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member on the right, I have just refrained your colleague on your left. Let us not interject in that fashion.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, now that there are reports of problems in the Western Province, what is the Government doing to dialogue with the Barotse Royal Establishment (BRE) to settle this issue which is threatening peace in Zambia?

Mr Speaker: I Suppose His Honour the Vice-President will fathom that question. 

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am sure I understand that the BRE is the same thing as other various forces in the Western Province, some of whom we would like to search. We are handling the situation diplomatically as well as routinely in terms of security. I think the hon. Member can be assured that the so-called Barotseland and what used to be called Barotseland is part of Zambia. It will remain so and it will be looked after by the Central Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, Father Banyangandora from Rwanda was deported sometime back and his deportation has since been lifted by the Ministry of Home Affairs. May I know what the current status is on the priest?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, my understanding is that from the Zambian side, he is free to come, but he needs a passport. From the Rwandan side, I do not want to talk for another State, but I can only say that his passport has not been released.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, about two years ago, the Government of Zambia promised the people of Magwero, where there is a school for the deaf, blind and dumb, that the school would be modernised and the road would be worked on. May I know if the current Government is continuing with that project to assist that special school?

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is nodding, which I suggest is either he is going to sleep…

Laughter

The Vice-President: …or re-assuring me that we are still committed to that. I am in my office for one hour before this session and, if I can get the specific questions or just a note, I can get a chapter or a verse. Now, all you are getting is the nodding of the hon. Minister.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr L. Zimba (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, Trachoma is a disease that causes blindness through drinking unsafe water. This disease is rampant in rural areas and it can be prevented. What is the Government doing to provide enough boreholes in rural areas since the boreholes that you have provided are far from reaching the target?

The Vice-President:Mr Speaker the provision of clean drinking water is one of the millennium development goals (MDGs) and it is being actively pursued. Trachoma is simply one aspect of unsafe water.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, when the PF Government came into power, enthusiastically, they declared zero tolerance to corruption which some of us were very happy about. At the rate we are going, I am getting concerned. Through you, there have been reports and talks about corruption. I would like His Honour the Vice-President to make it clear to the House and the nation what the status of corruption regarding the purchase of fertiliser is.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have no knowledge of any corruption. There may be allegationsand, if they do exist, they are being investigated. If they are not there, then I have no knowledge of any corruption, anyway. I think everybody being an expert on corruption is quite a feature of this country. There are bush lawyers, pocheza mu madzulo, whatever you want to call it.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

What does that refer to, His Honour the Vice-President? 

Laughter

The Vice-President: Sir, it is an Eastern Province language for chatting in the evening or chatting in the afternoon. I understand that everyone becomes an expert in the evening.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr M. Mwale (Malambo): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President shed lighton what led to the last minute cancellation of the visit by Her Excellency the President of Malawi, Mrs Joyce Bandato Zambia, last October?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I should refer the question to the Malawian High Commissioner because I really cannot speak on behalf of the President of Malawi. It would not be proper for me to attempt to do that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, at a campaign rally in Chama early this year, His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata told the people of Chama that they should not sell their cotton because Mulungushi Textiles was about to be opened. Todate, Mulungushi Textiles has not been opened. I want to find out if that statement was just a political gimmick to hoodwink the people of Chama to vote for the Patriotic Front (PF).

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, my understanding of the PF policy position on selling cotton in the Eastern Province is not to withhold the cotton from the out-grower operators. That, obviously, was not feasible and I am sure the President did not actually say that. The project to get Mulungushi Textiles working again is underway. There are negotiations between the Ministry of Defence, which happens to have a chunk of that. It does not own the majority, but it owns a significant chunk of about 30 per cent or 34 per cent. We are expect it to be open, again, as a textile factory, and not as a dairy or piggery, within the next year.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, what localor international factorshave led to the economic growth that we have actually seen registering in this country?

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the main factor has been the Chinese Dragons’ Boom and the corresponding or the resultant demand for natural resources such as copper and oil. In Zambia’s case, it is notably copper that has resulted from the booming of the Chinese economy and the tendency of people to speculate in basic commodities like copper has also helped. With that demand and given a minimal or acceptable level of stability and order, the country has been able to help itself from growing.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, a month ago, His Honour the Vice-President pronounced that all the farmers will get their money by 30th November. May I know why, up to now, some farmers are not paid. How are they going to survive? For example, in Chongwe, some farmers are not paid.

The Vice- President: Mr Speaker, I am as distressed as the questioner when it comes to issues of why individual farmers have not been paid. Unfortunately, some level of bureaucracy and care is necessary to prevent the massive levels of fraud and swindling that have typically gone on with this aspect of our annual life in Zambia. The banks have to be careful because they are accountable for the money that they have received. However, all the money that the banks require to finish the job has been released, and it is all at the banking system. I think, we need to undertake the Ministry of Finance and carry out investigations as to why it is taking so long to receive the money. Are they making interest out of the money or truly just exercising due diligence? However, we do not know the answer to that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the day before yesterday, my colleagues on your right annoyed His Excellency the President in Chinsali, as he was about to commission the road works. I would like to find out why my colleagues had the audacity to annoy His Excellency the President, leading to the cancellation of the function where dignitaries were invited and he was also invited to witness a road construction that is non existence.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President was raised in a household of a provincial commissioner in the British Administration whose habits were to shout at people in order to get them to accelerate in their job.

Laughter

The Vice-President: That is in fact the reason for his nick name of king cobra which goes back from many years. That is a matter of style. We all want the job done. He does not want to be polite about it and all he says is, get the job done or you will lose your contract. That is all. It is a very straightforward matter. If the questioner does not know the President by now, I will take him to State House, and he will meet him.

Laughter

The Vice-President: He can experience a direct dingering from His Excellency the President.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, there are complaints that have been raised by the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNTU) on the issue of the importation of hungarian sausages from South Africa and Russia, which has adversely affected small-scale pig farmers, especially those in Masaiti Constituency, to sell on the Zambian market.

Mr Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, may His Honour the Vice-President tell to this august House what the Government is doing to ban the importation of hungarian sausages.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, please, let me beg with the questioner not to bring a hungarian sausage to this House and lay it on the Table, lest we have a repeat of this issue in respect of another species.

Laughter

The Vice-President: I can only undertake to look into that matter. Again, it would have benefited from a slightly earlier exposure to that question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Chungu (Lufwanyama): Mr Speaker, as His Honour the Vice-President is aware, this year, the nation suffered from chaotic maize marketing which resulted in protests by farmers around the country, including those in Lufwanyama. I would like to find out what measures the Patriotic Front (PF) Government will put in place next year to avoid a repeat of this year’s maize marketing debacle.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, without committing the Government, because I am not in a position to do that, let me say that various options on making the system more efficient will be put in place. I know Lufwanyama is one of the areas where we have had a lot of complaints, including subcontracting some of the marketing to the private sector which are under consideration and to co-operatives as well, which are part of the private sector. I think, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and the ministry, itself, is not up to the job of taking the input and marketing responsibilities on to itself.

I thank you, Sir.

___________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

POLICE POSITIONS

289. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    whether any positions in the Zambia Police Force were abolished since September, 2011;

(b)    if so, which positions were abolished; and

(c)    how many women officers were serving in the Zambia Police Force as of 31st March, 2012.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mrs Mwamba): Mr Speaker, the Government has not abolished any positions in the Zambia Police Force since September, 2011. The number of women officers serving in the Zambia Police Force as of 31st March, 2012 was 5,914 compared to a total of 9,224 male officers. However, the total number of officers is 15,138, 39.1 per cent of whom are female while 60.9 per cent are male.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_________

BILLS

REPORT STAGE

The Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2012

Report adopted.

Third Reading, on Tuesday, 11th December, 2012.

_________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ABSENCE OF HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT

Mr Speaker: I have an announcement to make, His Honour the Vice-President has left the House for an international engagement. In his absence, the Minister of Justice, Hon. Wynter Kabimba, will act as the Leader of Government Business in the House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

__________

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2012

The Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2012

The Zambia Development Agency (Amendment) Bill, 2012

Third Readings, on Tuesday on Tuesday, 11th December, 2012.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Medical levy (Repeal) Bill, 2012

The Mines and Minerals Development (Amendment) Bill, 2012

The Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2012

_____ 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

(Consideration resumed)

CLARIFICATION ON DONOR FUNDING TO THE MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE AND LIVESTOCK

VOTE 89/34 − (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Agriculture Training Institutions – K37,221,705,438).
The Chairperson: Before we move on to the consideration of Vote 89/34, I will request the hon. Minister of Finance to make a clarification on the issue which was raised yesterday. 

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Chikwanda):Mr Chairperson, firstly, I wish to tender apologies for the slippages that were raised yesterday regarding the treatment of donor funds in the Yellow Book, when the House was considering the Estimates of Expenditure for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. 

Sir, I wish to extend my profound gratitude to hon. Members of Parliament for their indulgence to allow me to make a clarification on this matter. I wish to inform the House that the Budget allocations which are indicated in the Yellow Book include all the sources of funds for programmes and activities, that is, both the Government and donors. 

Mr Chairperson, with regard to the programmes and activities that are funded by our co-operating partners, I wish to inform the House that these are clearly indicated in the Yellow Book, with a foot note on the respective activities, showing the amounts allocated and the name of the donor. This is in line with the principle of activity-based budgeting. 

The House may further wish to note that the information on the list of co-operating partners and respective amounts appear at the end of each department under which the various activities have been budgeted for. 

Mr Chairperson, in addition, in the event that a co-operating partner does not give us commitments on their anticipated level of budget support, at the time of preparation of the National Budget, the funds would not be included in the Budget. However, should the support materialise after approval of the Budget, the Government would come back to the House for supplementary approval to allow for the utilisation of the funds. The supplementary expenditure would clearly indicate the amount, the financier and the activity on which these funds would be applied. 

Mr Chairperson, having said this, I wish to draw your attention to the question which was raised yesterday by Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, regarding Programme 1092, Activity 010 – Community Outreach. 

Sir, I wish to inform the House that as was earlier indicated, the activity in question will indeed be financed by Japan International Co-oporation Agency (JICA). The full explanation is that in 2013, this activity has been budgeted for under Programme 1018, Activity 016 –Rural Extension Services Capacity Enhancement Project (11) – K6,800,000,000. The footnote relating to this activity is 11. It indicates the name of the donor as being JICA. This is found on page 1396 of the Yellow Book. 

Once again, I wish to thank the hon. Members of Parliament for their indulgence through which I was allowed to clarify the matter. 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you. 

Vote 89/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/37 − (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock − Muchinga Province − District Agriculture Co-ordinating Office − K9,296,880,513)

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment under 02 Mpika District, Programme: 1053 Crop Production, Advisory and Technical Services, by the deletion of Programme Total K145,531,333 and the substitution therefore of K145,531,332.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 89/37, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 51 − (Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication − K539,808,007,913)

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications (Mr Yaluma): Mr Chairperson, I wish to express my sincere gratitude for the opportunity that I have been accorded to make a policy statement in support of the 2013 Budget for my ministry.

Sir, I also wish to congratulate the Minister of Finance, Hon. Alexander Chikwanda, for presenting a people focused budget which will guide the country’s expenditure as Zambia tries to consolidates the gains of the past years and tackle the challenges that have affected budget execution and implementation of Government programmes.

It is in difficult times, Mr Chairperson, such as the one we are going through that tough decisions have to be made in order to stimulate the economy and ensure growth in the future.

During this challenging period, the role of the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication remains to be the platform on which infrastructure development is anchored so as to create a sound business and commercial environment for a private sector led growth, wealth creation and poverty reduction. We all know, Mr Chairperson that in today’s world, nothing can be effectively and efficiently done without reliable infrastructure. Therefore, the ministry’s mission statement is:

“To effectively facilitate the sustainable development and management of Government property, transport, information and communication technology infrastructure and ensure the provision of quality metrological and printing services, in order to stimulate national development”.

In this regard, Mr Chairperson, allow me to start by highlighting the performance of my ministry in 2012 before I outline and articulate the strategic vision and developmental plans of my ministry for 2013 and beyond.

Sir, I am once again thankful to you for giving me this opportunity to reiterate the commitment of the Government under this ministry. The major programmes that the ministry identified as urgent projects include among others a number of policy pronouncements which were previously made by His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, in the 2012 Budget.

The ministry was allocated K360.34 billion while in 2013 we have been given K534.81 billion which is being proposed.

Mr Chairperson, as stated by His Excellency the Republican President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, in his Opening Speech to Parliament, the Government will, apart from implementing its own programmes, continue to implement all good programmes left by the previous administration and work to improve their implementation by addressing the many challenges identified.

Now, let me now talk about the performance of the ministry in relation to the 2012 Budget. Sir, the 2012 Budget for the ministry was targeted at accomplishing the following: 

(i)    formulation and revision of policy, legal and regulatory frameworks affecting the transport, works, supply, metrological and communication sectors;

(ii)    development, rehabilitation and maintenance of Government property, transport and communication infrastructure provision as well as providing quality metrology and printing services; and

(iii)    provision of resources for the management and administration of the ministry.

Mr Chairperson, the year 2012 was full of activities both at the regional, as well as international level. However, for this purpose of the speech, I will restrict myself to issues that my ministry has achieved in relation to the 2012 Budget and what it intends to achieve in relation to the 2013 Budget, in the various sectors of its jurisdiction.

Sir, let me now talk about air transport and civil aviation. On air transport, I wish to inform this august House that some of the major works executed using the 2012 Budget included works on the runway at Kasaba Bay. This work is still on-going with 70 per cent of the works having been completed. The remaining 30 per cent of the work is to complete the construction of the apron and the addition of the final layers of asphalt on the runway.

The control tower building at Mansa Airport has been completed while the terminal building works are still going on. Major runway construction works at Solwezi Airport have been carried out with First Quantum Mine having participated in the project through their social corporate responsibility efforts. The only outstanding works at Solwezi Airport include the final touches of painting, runway markings, construction of the terminal building and the control tower. 

Mr Chairperson, the ministry managed to procure 17 fire tenders and nine ambulances valued at K170 billion. They have already arrived in the country …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: I hope we are listening because it seems there are too many people talking.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chairperson, I would like to just notify my hon. Colleagues here that my presentation will take about two hours and half because …

Laughter

Mr Yaluma: … I want to ensure that the hon. Members appreciate what the ministry is trying to do to their infrastructure. 

Laughter

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chairperson, the ministry managed to procure 17 fire tenders and nine ambulances valued at K170 billion. These have already arrived in the country and will soon be distributed to airports and aerodromes after working out modalities.

Mr Chairperson, the Government is determined to modernise major international airports in order to meet international standards. The procurement process for the upgrading of Kenneth Kaunda, Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe and Mfuwe International Airports has commenced. Tenders were advertised and evaluations are currently on-going. Works at Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula International Airport are in progress at 60 per cent in readiness for the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) General Assembly to be co-hosted by Zambia and Zimbabwe from 24th to 29th August, 2013 in Livingstone and Victoria Falls respectively.

Mr Chairperson, this august House is aware that Zambia was banned from flying into the European airspace because of a number of inadequacies identified in its civil aviation industry. The major one, among others, was that the five-phase process in operator certification of airlines was not adequately followed in 2009. This resulted in significant safety concerns. I would like to inform this House that measures have been put in place to ensure that this ban is lifted. The five-phase process is now being followed to certify airlines, with the most recent being Proflight Airline. Further, the creation of the Civil Aviation Authority is one of the conditions that the Government has fulfilled in order to have the ban lifted. The relevant statute has been done and the implementation process has already started.

The Chairperson: Just a second, hon. Minister. Could you just raise your voice a little because people at the back seem to be having difficulties getting what you are saying.{mospagebreak}

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chairperson, the other conditions include developing enough manpower capacity to handle matters of aviation safety and security. This is being addressed through sending personnel for training abroad.

Mr Chairperson, the European Union (EU) has given Zambia a grant of 3 million Euros under the Tenth European Development Fund over a period of three years to help the country improve its safety and security capabilities in order to have the ban lifted. Part of the funds will be used for training of personnel in safety oversight to improve the local skills and meet the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) standards and international best practices. The ICAO co-ordinated validation national team is expected in the country from 12th to 15th December, 2012, to come and verify the extent to which Zambia has improved in the areas that necessitated the ban. The ministry is optimistic that, after the mission, the country’s name will be removed from the blacklist and locally-registered aircrafts will begin to fly into Europe without restrictions.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of projection into the 2013 Budget, I would like to remind this august House that Act No 7 of 2012, which will transform the Department of Civil Aviation into the Zambia Civil Aviation Authority, was passed by this august House. The hon. Ministers made efforts to ensure that the department is quickly transformed into a semi-autonomous authority in 2013. It is expected that the creation of this authority will enhance efficiency in the operation of the aviation industry. This entails that the authority will have enough capacity in terms of qualified and experienced manpower, and will have more power to deal with issues affecting the industry than it does currently.

Sir, the Government will also rehabilitate and upgrade ten district aerodromes to bituminous standards in 2013 as the first phase of rehabilitating all aerodromes in Zambia. I wish to inform this august House that the Government intends to establish a national airline which will be the country’s flag carrier. The Government, through the ministry, has been actively consulting and engaging various stakeholders to see how this vision can be realised. The ministry is targeting to have the national airline in place before the UNWTO General Assembly to be held from 24th to 29th August, 2013. 

Mr Chairperson, Zambia holds 40 per cent of water bodies in Southern Africa, which include lakes, rivers and the numerous streams. These water bodies interconnect through the 755,000km2 land mass allied with a relatively sparse population of about 13 million people. This gives a density of nine people per square kilometre. A significant percentage of the population is in remote and rural areas with water transport being its main mode of transport as it is conveniently available. Most of the water is concentrated around Bangweulu, Chilubi, Kafue Flats and the Barotse Plains.

Mr Chairperson, the challenge, however, is on rehabilitation and maintenance of the existing canal network, which is currently approximated at 2000km. The Government realises the importance of the canals in their support for rural transport mobility and, in the 2013 Budget, the ministry originally proposed to spend K80 billion on the procurement of dredgers and rehabilitation of canals. However, only a mere K13.9 billion has been allocated. Therefore, I urge this august House to support supplementary budgets to meet the shortfall.

Sir, plans are underway to construct a canal from Shang’ombo to Rivungu in Angola in order to enhance bilateral ties between the two countries. This was one of the projects that were initiated by our colleagues in the previous Government, and I commend Professor Lungwangwa for the efforts put into the project.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa indicated assent.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chairperson, the Government has embarked on surveys to determine the appropriate types of water vessels to be used on different waterways in the country. Arising from this, the Government will procure steam water barges or vessels to ply the country’s waterways in order to promote safety in water transport. In addition, we shall procure watercrafts to provide safe vessels to transport people and goods. Safety on the water bodies is of great concern and, therefore, the Government will endeavour to provide trained personnel in managing the water bodies and vessels with full adherence to stipulated regulations on water transport and safety. However, the Government regrets the loss of lives and property arising from marine accidents, particularly on the use of unsafe water vessels and unlicensed personnel. 

Sir, this Government will continue to issue operational grants to the Bangweulu Water Transport Board, Mweru Water Transport Board and Mulamba Harbour. For technical assistance and standardised guidance, we shall maintain our subscription to the International Standard Committee on Shipping and Port Management of Eastern and Southern Africa.

Sir, the ministry will also undertake feasibility studies with the assistance of cooperating partners and the private sector with a view to developing a business model for managing and operating the water transport sector. This is not only to provide transport infrastructure as a public good, but also as a competitive sector that will create employment, generate income and reduce poverty. These investigations will inform us of optimal means of harnessing the absolute advantage of having abundant water resources. These resources are conveniently located for our exploitation or sustained economic development through rural accessibility to social economic services.

Mr Chairperson, the importance of road transport in our country cannot be over-emphasised. One of the major campaign promises of the PF was to improve the road network in our country. I am glad to inform the House that the promise is now being fulfilled, as demonstrated by the Republican President’s launching of the Link Zambia 8,000 road project …

Mr Livune: Question!
    
Mr Yaluma: … at an estimated cost of K28 trillion over a period of five years.

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chairperson, the Link Zambia 8,000 road project seeks to achieve the following objectives:

(a)    create not less 24,000 jobs for our people, especially the youths;

(b)    promote growth of the local contracting industry;

(c)    contribute to the reduction of road user charges and transit times across Zambia; and 

(d)    create economic growth poles and wealth in outlying areas of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, at least, three roads per province were identified and submitted by provincial administrations totalling thirty-seven roads in all the ten provinces. These roads are to be upgraded to bituminous standard with double surfacing or asphalt concrete surfaces. Eighty thousand kilometres of roads is intended to be worked on. Township roads have been catered for under the Pave Zambia 2,000 project. It is expected that, at the end of this project, most of our townships’ outlook, especially on the Copperbelt and Lusaka provinces, will change significantly. The will also create more than 10,000 jobs for our youths. Other programmes include the L400, which aims to improve accessibility and road networks in Lusaka.

Mr Chairperson, the Government has made positive strides over the much-awaited Kazungula Bridge construction project. The procurement process has commenced and the actual construction is expected to commence in February, 2014 and be completed in February, 2019. The cost of the project is estimated at US$260 million while the funding agencies are African Development Bank (ADB), Japan International Co-operation Agency (JICA) and the Governments of Zambia and Botswana.

Mr Chairperson, some other projects that have been completed in 2012 are Kasempa Turn-Off to Kabompo, Kabompo/Mumbezhi and Mumbezhi/Zambezi roads, while on-going projects are Kasama to Isoka through Mbesuma Bridge, Mongu to Kalabo, Senanga to Sesheke, Isoka/ Muyombe, Landless Corner/Mumbwa, through Mwachisompola, and the Bottom Road in the Southern Province. I am glad that Hon. Namugala has just nodded her road.

Mr Chairperson, you may wish to recall that the Government pronounced a 20 per cent mandatory sub-contracting to indigenous Zambians on Government contracts. In this respect, my ministry is developing mechanisms to realise tangible economic benefits of employment, wealth creation and poverty reduction for our youths. This is a priority, as we realise that the Government is, currently, the major financier of most development programmes in the infrastructure sector.

Mr Chairperson, our rural population has not been left out from the ambitious Government programme to improve the road network in the country. The Government has continued to rehabilitate and, where necessary, construct rural feeder roads to as many areas as possible in order to open them up. To this end, the Government has started procuring new construction equipment to replace the old ones, which were procured under a concessional loan from the Chinese Government. In the 2012 Budget, the Government’s desire was to procure two motor graders per province and, so far, the programme has been progressing well, with five provinces, namely, Luapula, Western, Central, Eastern and Copperbelt Provinces, having received their motor graders. A sum of K20 billion has been provided in the 2013 Budget to procure twenty more motor graders.

Mr Chairperson, as this august House is already aware, the Government re-possessed the concession rights that were granted to the Railway Systems of Zambia (RSZ) in September, 2012, to operate train services on the Zambia Railways infrastructure. The re-possession was necessitated by the mismanagement of Zambia Railways Limited infrastructure and rolling stocks, and numerous breaches that the concessionaire committed during the period of the concession. This, in turn, led to deterioration of the railway infrastructure and loss of assets. The Government’s immediate intention is to rehabilitate and maintain parts of the permanent way that cause train derailments, procure modern rolling stock (locomotives, wagons and coaches), enhance the rail engineering and technical capacity, and provide working capital for continued movement of trains. These interventions will make the main railway line viable for future private sector participation in running it on a commercial basis. 

Mr Chairperson, the Government is eager to revamp the railway transport system by making it competitive, cost-effective, commercially viable, efficient and market-driven. The Government intends to have a railway system that will complement the road network, hence, reducing road rehabilitation and maintenance costs. This, essentially, will reduce the massive damage currently being exerted on the road network due to transportation of bulk, heavy and dangerous goods by trucks. To demonstrate this commitment, the Government has allocated K640 billion in the 2013 Budget in order to resuscitate and re-operationalise this very important sector.

Mr Chairperson, resource allocation is coupled with a strategic management restructuring of Zambia Railways Limited, which includes the appointment of a new board of directors and top management. The Government promises a pragmatic railway business model which will comprehensively rehabilitate and maintain the dilapidated infrastructure, while optimising on economies of scale to generate railway revenues, create employment and be the key transport infrastructure to facilitate economic development in Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, the railway infrastructure in Zambia was mainly developed to serve the mining sector and this rationale is still relevant today. Considering the capacity and state of both the Tanzania Zambia Railways (TAZARA) and the main line now under Zambia Railways Limited, we do not only need to rehabilitate and maintain the current network, but also extend it to serve the new mining areas, such as the Lumwana Mine, in the North-Western Province, so as to transport the bulky and heavy cargo for which this mode of transport is most convenient.

Mr Chairperson, the viability of the main railway line, now under Zambia Railways Limited, is precedent to the development of new railway spurs across the country. With the opening of the new mines in the North-Western Province, efforts are being pursued to extend the railway network from Chingola through Solwezi to Jimbe in Angola, on the one hand, and from Solwezi through Kaoma and Sesheke to Katima Mulilo to link the network to the Namibian railway network and access the Walvis Bay in order to enhance trade. The ministry has allocated counterpart funds in this stream, as it is implementing this exercise in partnership with the private sector. 

Mr Chairperson, in the eastern part of Zambia, the Government has already invested over K35 billion for the completion of civil works on the Chipata/Muchinji Railway line, which connects Zambia to Nacala Port in Mozambique through Malawi. We have allocated an additional K2 billion in the 2013 Budget, with a view to operationalising the Chipata/Muchinji Railway. 

Mr Chairperson, You may wish to know that we have undertaken pre-feasibility studies for the extension of the railway line from Nseluka near Kasama to connect to Mpulungu Port. This will increase Zambia’s involvement in trade with the Great Lakes Region of East Africa through Lake Tanganyika. We are looking for resources to carry out a full detailed study, design and construction.

A pre-feasibility study to also connect Chipata Railway Station with the Tanzania-Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA) at Mpika was also undertaken and resources are being sought to commence full studies, design and construction. We are, therefore, going to continue with the agenda of developing the Chipata Dry Port and the rehabilitating Mpulungu Port in order to make them logistically efficient to support the railway carriage and trans-shipment from the roads. By constructing the Kazungula Bridge, we shall not only be replacing the pontoon, but also enhancing trade capacity through increased transiting volumes of cargo, increase railway and trade revenues and increase impetus of our Zambian railway many line.

Mr Chairperson, under the Kazungula Bridge Project, the Government has secured some funding for the development of the Zambia National Transport Master Plan. This is a long-term plan that will integrate development of all modes of transport in the short, medium and to long-term periods. This will respond to the current overwhelming transport demand which will be supplying the necessary infrastructure for future economic growth and development. The railway network should not only be considered as a priority national infrastructure, but also as a regional call which defines the North-South Corridor and gives economic viability of the Nacala-Beira-Lobito Trade Corridor. Our benefits shall be yielded by optmising this need of comparative advantage in the region by rehabilitating, maintaining and developing the railway network in order to enhance trade.

Mr Chairperson, Mulobezi Railway Line is currently in a deplorable state. The ministry has allocated K1 billion in the 2013 Budget in order to rehabilitate and maintain the railway Line. Through this, though this allocation is inadequate, the Government anticipates support from the private sector for this project.

Road Traffic Management and Safety 

Mr Chairperson, the Government regrets the loss of lives through many road traffic accidents that the country has continued to witness. Measures to minimise the scourge have continued to be implemented. The Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) will employ sixty traffic patrol inspectors in the first phase to be deployed to most parts of the country in order to monitor the safety of the users of the road network. To show Government’s commitment to the road safety and traffic management, the ministry is proposing to spend K69 billion in 2013 as compared to K38 billion in 2012 for administrative expenses which include personal emoluments and operational expenses. The total operational budget funded to RTSA, through the National Roads Fund, in 2012, was K128 billion. This amount was utilised on the programme to modernise its work process in line with the best practices and also in an effort to remove subjectivity in the examination of motor vehicles for road worthiness. In this regard, in 2012, K28 billion was spent on the purchase of state-of-the-art, fixed and mobile vehicle examination equipment. One fixed vehicle examination centre is currently being installed with this equipment at Mimosa in Lusaka while a truck and three containers of mobile vehicle testing equipment have just been received. K17 billion has been approved for continuation of this programme in 2013. 

The agency stepped up its traffic law enforcement patrols in 2012 and K21.5 billion was allocated from this activity. In 2013, K13 billion has been set aside for these patrols. In 2012, thirty highway patrol vehicles and motor cycles were bought and are currently being used in joint patrols with traffic police. The Zambia Traffic Information Computer System (ZTICS), which the agency uses to register and licence motor vehicles and driving licences, was allocated K10 billion in 2012 in computer consumables and a similar amount has been budgeted for this item in 2013. K48 billion was spent on the procurement of traffic lights for Mongu, Solwezi, Mansa and Ndola. These traffic lights are awaiting installation in these towns. For 2013, K13 billion has also been set aside for this programme which is aimed at improving traffic flow and promotion of road safety. Road safety education and publicity was allocated K19.2 billion in 2012 and K10 billion has been proposed in 2013. 

Mr Chairperson, the agency faced challenges in terms of low staffing levels against the growing population of vehicles and drivers in the country. Office space continues to be a major challenge. The agency has budgeted for K15 billion to address this issue in 2013. The ZTICS has not been very reliable and has suffered numerous down times, leading to poor service delivery to the public. K18 billion has been budgeted for in 2013 for the procurement of a replacement and modern system to service the agency requirements.

New interventions aimed at enhancing compliance to traffic laws and regulations and promotion of road safety are due to be implemented in 2013. The vehicle tracking and monitoring for speed management, regulation of driving, dry fatigue, outsourcing of  vehicle testing to competent private sector institutions and enhanced and sustain traffic law enforcement, road safety education and publicity will be prioritised in 2013. There will be intensified focus on speed reduction because of the many accidents occurring on our roads due to excessive speed. Appropriate legislation is being put in place to back up all the new interventions that are being introduced. The RTSA officers have also increased patrols to ensure that people who are drinking alcohol while driving are not be allowed to drive. 

The law enforcement, Mr Chairperson, will also be enhanced on other traffic aspects in order to increase overall compliance to enable RTSA achieve its 2013 revenue targets.

Hon. Opposition Members: It will take him four hours to deliver the policy statement.

Meteorology

Mr Chairperson, they can take a break if they want.

Laughter

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chairperson, the ministry is determined to provide effective and efficient meteorological products service delivery and contribute to sustainable socio-economic development. Through the Meteorological Department, the ministry is providing timely weather and climate early warnings, and thus ensure that the public is well informed about the weather and climate patterns that the country is experiencing every time. This has strengthened climate resilience and disaster risk reduction, strategies in decision making and planning processes amongst the general public and Government institutions. To this end, the Government, with the support of the World Meteorological Organisation, will procure an advanced electrical generator to help the Meteorological Department overcome the challenges of accessing and transmitting meteorological data and information during the periods of electricity load shedding. Further, the World Meteorological Organisation has assisted the department to procure automatic message switching equipment so that data can be timely transmitted and exchanged globally.

Mr Chairperson, the citizens of Zambia not only deserve better lives, but are also entitled to better lives. It is, therefore, the Government’s resolve to minimise the impact on communities associated with climate variability and climate change through the provision of timely, reliable, accurate and user friendly weather climate products and services in this regard. The Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, through the Meteorological Department, continues to strengthen the dissemination and interpretation of weather and climate information to rural communities, especially peasant farmers, through the radio internet project that is being implemented through community radio stations now operational in a few provinces, but plan to extend to cover all the provinces in the country.

Mr Chairperson, as part of the infrastructure development programme, the Government, through the Meteorological Department, successfully rehabilitated the Meteorological Station at Kafue, Kaoma, Senanga and Sesheke in 2012. The Government also constructed new office blocks and staff accommodation in Kalabo and Mpulungu.

In addition, this august House may wish to know that the Government has established Agro Meteorological Weather Stations at most agricultural research centres throughout the country to support the development of the agriculture sector and enhance food security. During the 2012 fiscal year, the Government, with the support of the Global Environment Facility and facilitation of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA), has installed thirteen automatic weather observing stations on the Copperbelt Province and Eastern, Southern and Western provinces. These are aimed at improving climate resilience and enhancing adaptation to climate changes by rural communities.

Sir, during 2012, the Government, with support from the governments of Denmark and United Kingdom, also trained four weather forecasters while two weather forecasters and two engineers are currently undergoing training.

In the 2013 Budget, which is before this august House, the Government has provided funds to procure meteorological equipment and rehabilitation of more stations countrywide. The Government will also upgrade and expand meteorological infrastructure at the provincial and district aerodromes in support of the aviation sector.

Mr Chairperson, we now move to Information and Communication Technologies (ICT).

Interjection

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chair, that suits very well. I thank these people for being considerate. At least, they are giving me some mileage for the next one-and-a-half hours.

Laughter

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chairperson, let me just propound a little bit to the hon. Members of this House whilst they agonise on the time …

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, I think, we need to pass your Vote. Continue with your statement.

Mr Yaluma: Sir, the Government recognises that ICTs are important enablers to build an information-centred society where everyone can create, access, utilise and share information and knowledge, leading to great productivity, greater competitiveness and sustainable economic growth which is a precondition for poverty reduction.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to highlight the sector’s performance during the 2012. As at the end of September, 2012, there were 8,932 mobile phone users reflecting a penetration of 67 users per 100 inhabitants. In terms of internet, there were 15,844 fixed internet subscribers and 76,803 mobile internet subscribers, giving us a total of 92,647 internet subscribers and the penetration of 0.69 subscribers per 100 inhabitants. In terms of usage, there were just over 2,582,979 internet users, giving a penetration of 1,927 users per 100 inhabitants.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Yaluma: Sir, this reflects an increase of 23 per cent in the number of mobile users and an increase of 216 per cent in the number of internet users within the one year this Government has been in office. The big increase in internet usage can be attributed to the rollout of the 3G Mobile services and increased number of people using mobile phones to access the internet. In terms of mobile coverage, as at the end of September, 2012, there were a total of 2,342 mobile communication tower sites in the country providing a total coverage of 78.4 per cent.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to mention that the Government has made it a priority to extend communication towers and services to all chiefdoms and other unserved areas within the shortest possible time. Surveys were carried out from 13th August, 2012 to 18th September, 2012 covering 215 sites. A total of 197 chiefdoms were visited across the ten provinces. To provide coverage in all these chiefdoms, it will cost about K125 billion under the Universal Access Funding.

Sir, as regards sim registration, the Government recognises the enormous convenience and flexibility ICT solutions such as electronic payments and money transfer systems have brought to the general welfare of the citizenry. Indeed, mobile commerce solutions via GSM phones are increasing on the market mainly due to the convenience, flexibility and increase in the use of mobile phones. Customers are able to pay for utility services such as water, electricity or, indeed, transfer money without having to queue or travel to the service outlet, thereby reducing the cost of doing business. In order to protect customers and to enhance the proliferation of such technologies to support the business, there has been a need to provide for enhanced security of the system through the introduction of the sim registration.

On e-Governance and ICT, the Government is determined to achieve a transformation that results in the delivery of high quality and citizen’s centric services. The objective is to provide equal access and treatment to all citizens, whether rich or poor, to reduce the real cost of transacting with the Government through the implementation of the portfolio of ICT application that will allow the electronic delivery of services of the highest quality to citizens.

Mr Chairperson, the Government recognises the important role the postal sector plays in the economy and its potential to contribute significantly to the economic and social wellbeing of the people because of its countrywide presence that can service the general citizens, the chiefs and business houses, even at the remotest points in Zambia. In this regard, the Government has instituted a number of measures to put in place necessary legal and regulatory frameworks to promote growth of this sector to improve operations in the sector during the period under review. The Government through Zampost acquired the following: twenty eight mail delivery vans, twenty motor bikes, three luxury coaches at a total cost of K2.6 billion. In addition, three luxury coaches are expected to be procured during the next financial year. Further, Zampost has finally acquired a licence to operate as a micro-finance subsidiary. The continued role of the post office in financial services is also demonstrated by the fact that Zampost has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) to participate in the issuance of the rebased currency.

Mr Chairperson, a lot of buildings have been pulled down, but other projects that have been started, but not yet completed due to, among other things, inadequate funding. These include the following: 

(a)    houses of the former presidents;

(b)    rehabilitations of the Government House and other VIP houses;

(c)    mausoleum at the Presidents’ Burial site at Embassy Park;

(d)    planning and budgeting prior to the end of sitting President’s term  of office. This one is important and I must say it. Just give me some …

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chairperson …

Hon. Members: Use the Microphone!

The Chairperson: Order!

We will adjourn five minutes early so that the technicians can work on the problem. The House is adjourned

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended before the break, I was talking about the building of the President’s house.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to inform this House that according to the conditions of service for Heads of State and the Speaker of the National Assembly, among others, the Government is mandated to construct houses which they will occupy when they leave office. The practice of the ministry has been to begin the construction process prior to the retirement of the office holders so that they are not subjected to destitution after retirement.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Yaluma: Mr Chairperson, this is also meant to save the Government colossal sums of money incurred in renting houses for the retired dignitaries. I now wish to clarify to this August House why budgeting for the construction of the Fifth President’s house should be done early. This trend of budgeting for the sitting President started in 2007 during the Third Presidents’ second and last tenure of office. This was done after realising that at the end of 2006, little progress had been recorded in the construction of the Second President’s house. Planning and budgeting prior to the sitting President’s end of tenure of office entails that adequate and suitable land would be found and allocated for this purpose; consultancy services would be sourced on time and not in a hurry; preliminary and detailed designs would be put together on time; and finally, the construction of the house would be completed on time. This would save the Government colossal sums of money as it would not have to rent a suitable house for the outgoing President. The consultancy services for the construction of the second President’s house have just been tendered because it took a long time for the Government to allocate adequate and suitable land for this project.

Mr Chairperson, in 2007, K1 billion was budgeted for the construction of the Third President’s house. In 2008, K500 million was budgeted for the Third President’s house while in 2010 and 2011, K100 million and K1 billion respectively was budgeted for the Fourth President’s house. The total authorised budget, including supplementary expenditure for the construction of the fourth President’s house for the period 2010 to 2012, amounted to K9.8 billion. This comprised of the budget allocation totalling K3.6 billion and a supplementary budget of K6.2 billion. So, the figure I have given the picture of how things were done. In the first year, there was an allocation for the construction of the house for the Fourth President. In the year 2010, an amount of K100 million was put in place, with no supplementary expenditure. In 2011, the amount allocated was K1 billion while the supplementary expenditure was K6.2 billion which added up to K7.2 billion. Only K3 billion was released. In 2012, K2.5 billion budgeted for with no supplementary expenditure. Only K2.2 billion has been released so far.

Therefore, so far, the total authorised amount has been K9.8 billion, and K5.3 billion has so far been released.

Mr Chairperson, I would, therefore, like to request the House to support our budget proposal for the construction of the house for the Fifth President. I urge this august House earnestly, to support this cause.

Hon. Opposition Member: No!

Mr Yaluma: Sir, I thank the hon. Members for their patience which enabled them to listen to me talking for a long time.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute on the policy statement which has been given by the hon. Minister. 

Sir, to start with, I want to thank him for ensuring that the roads that we left have been completed. This is the way it should be. I was happy to hear him complimenting Professor Lungwangwa although he did not complement me for the foundation that I laid on his behalf.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I was happy that two days ago, the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport took us to University of Zambia (UNZA), National Sports Development Complex (NASDEC) and the National Olympics Sports Centre (NOSC) where the Minister of Transport, Supply and Communication has been supervising works in relation to the Supreme Council of Sports in Africa (SCASA) Zone VI Games. I want to start my contribution from there because it is his ministry which is responsible for those works.

Sir, what we noticed at UNZA is the fact that the works have been done properly. However, I wish to express my concern regarding the quality of the materials used, especially, for the taps. May be just after the games, we will need to do repairs. I suggest that the contractors who are contracted ensure that they use quality items when doing such works.

Mr Chairperson, I was impressed with the works at NASDEC. I want to request the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to ensure that the issue concerning the land where NASDEC has been built is resolved. The land belongs to the Agriculture and Commercial Society of Zambia. 

Mr Taundi: On a point of order, Sir.

Laughter {mospagebreak}

Mr Namulambe: Sir, another issue of concern is the dirty around the premises. The landscaping was not done. The structures at the UNZA are looking nice.

Mr Taundi: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Laughter 

Mr Taundi: I thank you, Mr Chairperson, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

It is either you say Mr Chairperson or Sir. 

Please, proceed.

Mr Taundi: Mr Chairperson, I do not usually rise on points of order, but I have been compelled to do so. In this country, especially along the line of rail, whenever there is a breakdown in television transmission even for five minutes, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) apologises, the situation is corrected and transmission continues. We are hosting SCASA Zone VI Games for the first time in this country, which we appreciate very much. There is an excitement all over the country because people want to see what goes on …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Raise your point of order, please.

Mr Taundi: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting in order to keep quiet about Kaoma District experiencing a break in television transmission for over two months now …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Taundi: … and today, the Zone VI Games are starting. The people of Kaoma District are also eager to watch the games. Is he in order not to inform the nation and Kaoma residents why they will not watch these games which are happening for the first time in this land?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You are talking of loss of transmission which occurred two months ago. There is no urgency in that point of order. Be that as it may, you may raise a question so that an appropriate answer is given.

Please, continue, Hon. Namulambe.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I want to urge the ministry responsible to ensure that there is proper landscaping at the places which I have mentioned. 

Further, the hon. Minister talked about the Link Zambia 8000 Road Project. This project is important. I am happy that the Mpongwe/Machiya Road is one of the roads which has been earmarked to be worked on. The only other thing we need is a bridge at Machiya. 

However, Sir, I wish to suggest that the ministry should not only concentrate on the roads that are in the document which was availed to all of us. There are certain roads which are very important and need attention. For instance, if you want to reduce traffic on the Great North Road, there is need for a road from Mukobeko in Kabwe passing through the rural areas up to Mpongwe into Luanshya. Once that is done, you are going to reduce traffic on the Great North Road. 

Mr Chairperson, the Link Zambia 8000 Road Project is very ambitious. I am worried about the ability of the contractors that we have in Zambia to be able to execute the works within the given timeframe. May be, there is a need to increase the number of contractors coming into the country. The process of tendering should begin as quickly as possible if we are to be beat time. Otherwise, we will not be able to successfully implement the programme.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to warn the ministry against single-sourcing. Let the contracts be subject to open tendering. If that is not followed, they will attract even contractors from outside to come into Zambia. Single-sourcing will limit the number of contractors that can work on these roads. Further, the Government must make adequate budgetary provisions for these road works if we are to complete the project on time.

Sir, the hon. Minister also talked about weather forecasting and the fact that the meteorological department should do its work. This is of great concern to me because the timely information on weather patterns given to farmers makes them prepare for the kind of seeds they should buy. Some farmers may have bought the long maturing varieties of seed which, if planted now, will not be able to give them the maximum yield. Therefore, this department should be giving weather forecasts to the farmers as early as possible so that they may plan properly.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister also talked about the construction of houses for former Presidents. However, I did not hear him talk about how much money the Government has spent in terms of rentals as a result of the failure by the Government to construct houses for the formers Presidents on time. The amounts of money that are being spent on rentals surpass the cost of actually building the houses. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Sir, there is no provision in the Former Presidents Act which states exactly when you start constructing a house. This means that a house can start being built from the first day when you enter State House … 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: … provided that the President does not occupy the house until after he leaves office.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: This is what the law provides. We have heard arguments in sections of the media over this issue, but we need to reflect on what the law states. There is no provision that states that the house can only be built once the President has retired. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Namulambe: I am speaking as the former hon. Minister of Works, Supply and Communication. When we were budgeting for the former President, those provisions were looked into. The Government needs to make sure that the construction of houses for formers Presidents is expedited. We should allocate adequate amounts towards the completion of these houses. I am complaining about the amount of money that has been allocated to the Second, Third and Fourth Republican Presidents of Zambia. There is a need for the Government to construct these houses and give them to the beneficiaries so as to avoid unnecessary rentals that are given to them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Let us listen attentively to the contribution. If you are mesmerised or impressed with the submission, say, ‘Hear, hear’.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: If not, then, say, ‘Question’. 

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Laughter

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I stand to be challenged by anyone, on the basis of the law, who can tell me where the law states the specific time when a house is to be constructed.

Hon. UNPD Member: You are not a lawyer.

Mr Namulambe: I may not be a lawyer, but I am a lawmaker. 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members on my left, let us allow the hon. Member to debate. If you want to debate, you will be given the chance to do so. 

You may proceed, Hon. Namulambe.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I have no objection to the figures that have been provided in the Yellow Book. However, I am against the inadequate allocation to the houses for formers Presidents. Those of us who want to be Presidents in 2016, …

Hon. UPND Member: Like you.

Mr Namulambe: … and do not want to construct a house for the current President are saying that we he must continue being in State House until his house is constructed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: However, if you want him to go, then, let a house be built for him so that he can leave State House for us in 2016.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I am interested in following the contribution. 

You may proceed, hon. Namulambe.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I believe that I am entitled to my opinion, as an hon. Member of this House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: If my interests are to be in State House in 2016, then I should plan to ensure that I build a house so that the President leaves State House for me in 2016.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: This should be the basis of our arguments. There is no provision which states when we should construct the house. I urge the hon. Minister to bring supplementary estimates because I want to see to it that the houses for the three past Presidents are completed. The three former Presidents who led our party should not be suffering living in rented houses. 

Mr Chairperson, these are very clear and straightforward issues. I want to live by the truth because I have limited memory. If I tell a lie, today, I might easily forget about it tomorrow. Therefore, I want to rely on the truth so that I may be able to repeat what I said even if I am woken up in the middle of the night.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I said on the Floor of this House that I would support any progressive Government policy and oppose any retrogressive ones. I choose to live that way and I am entitled to my opinion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for according me the opportunity to debate the Vote on the Floor of this House.

Sir, I will confine myself to the issue of the benefits for former Presidents of the Republic of Zambia. I would also like to state that I have learnt from the current and former hon. Ministers of Works, Supply and Communication on this issue. When he was hon. Minister of Works and Supply, he did make a recommendation for the construction of a house for a sitting President. I am not surprised that he is defending the current decision of the Government to make a recommendation to construct a house for a sitting President because he has supported that illegality before.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The man has the right to make his contribution. Let us be patient enough to listen to him.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, yesterday, I was inspired by our Hon. Speaker when he indicated to the House and the nation that he was going to defend the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia and all the laws that are made thereunder. In the same vein, I am also going to defend the Constitution of Zambia and the laws that are made thereunder. In my debate, I would like to state, very categorically, that I am not discriminating against anyone. I will draw and substantiate my debate from law of the Republic of Zambia. This is a Parliament of laws, and I also tend to think that the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the PF, is a Government of laws. If it is, it will stick to the laws of the Republic of Zambia. It will not want to emulate the illegalities of the past but, rather, to set a good precedent for the present and for the future. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, with your permission, I would like to quote what the law says. We were challenged by the former hon. Minister of Works and Supply to inform or challenge him if there is a law that does not agree with what he was proposing. 

Mr Chairperson, according to the Act that was passed by this House, which is Chapter 15 of the Laws of Zambia, Benefits of Former Presidents, Section 4:

“In addition to the benefit set out in Section 4, there shall be:

(a)    assigned to a former President within a period of not more than two years from the date of ceasing to hold office, a furnished executive house, built for a former President or bought in Zambia by the state at a place of the former President’s choice; and

(b)    provided to a former President immediately upon ceasing office to hold housing accommodation as the Government considers fit before the house is built.  

Sir, before a house is bought, when somebody ceases to hold office, the State will provide a house. That is what the law says.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I will not hesitate to take action against people who are persistently interfering. I know you. Dare me and I will do it.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, the law states that the former President is entitled to a House to be built for them at a place of their choice after they have ceased to hold office. If the President is not given a house after they have retired, the state will rent a house until the retirement house is built. That is what the law says. We should also know that there are conditions attached to the provision of these benefits. 

Sir, I am aware that Hon. Lubinda did raise a complaint against the former President, Mr Rupiah Banda, saying that, because he was violating this same law, he should not be entitled to the conditions that were applicable to a former President. He raised that issue in this House. It, therefore, implies that these conditions are attached to this assignment of the house. If a person is involved in active politics, he is not entitled to a house. That is what the law says. If a person is arrested and convicted, he will not be entitled to a house. The law does not state that you should enjoy your retirement benefits before you retire. Why are you not paying the Zambian workers their retirement benefits in advance of their retirement? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Civil servants are paid after they have retired or, posthumously, after they have died. Speaking for the UPND, no one is saying that President Sata is not entitled to a house. We are saying that, if he retires, and if his choice is to build a mansion in Monze, he will build it there. That is what the law says. It is his entitlement. You should know that before he retires, anything can happen. What if you raised other issues that disqualify him from enjoying those benefits, according to this Act?

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: What are you going to say?  

Mr Ntundu: Mukata knows and he is agreeing.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, even if I am the only one who is going to stand and defend the law and the truth, I will raise an issue over this Vote. You all know that, actually, the President said that he is my friend and we talk. Therefore, I am not against him, personally. I am just following the law that we enacted in this House. That is what I am doing. 

Hon. Member: Muza mangiwa mukachoka mu Boma imwe, ka!

Sir, the fact that our colleagues in the MMD performed illegal acts should not be the basis on which the PF do the same. The basis that you should be standing on is the need to correct any mistakes of our colleagues in the MMD. The argument should not be that the former hon. Minister of Works and Supply recommended it, therefore, the Government should continue doing so.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of Order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, let me apologise for interrupting a very important debate. The procedures of this House dictate that if your name is brought into a debate and you have not agreeing with what the debater is saying, you are entitled to a point of order. Is Hon. Lubinda in order to remain quiet after he has been cited that, he, in the last Parliament, questioned the legality of the former Government putting a Vote to build a house for the former President, Mr. Rupiah Banda. Is he in order to remain silent with his hands folded? 

I need your ruling, Sir.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that …

Order, Hon. Livune!

Notwithstanding what the standing orders state, the hon. Member is entitled to decide what to do. He has the right to decide whether to comment, raise a point of order or just rubbish it.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I also heard the former hon. Minister of Works and Supply say that those who want to assume office in 2016 should ensure that the house for President Sata is built. That argument is not tenable and is misplaced. As far as we are concerned, we shall adhere to the law and ensure that when they become former Presidents, whatever they are entitled to is provided for.

All of us who are vying for office in 2016 should not be looking forward to a house being built for us. After all, I am being told that our dear President also wants a second term.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Are you suggesting that he should have a house now and ensure that my brother-in-law and Hon. Geoffrey Bwalya Mwamba, who are aspiring for presidency, should wait for ten years for them to assume office. That is the argument of Hon. Namulambe.

Mr Chairperson, the issue that we are discussing is non-partisan …

Hon. UPND Member: Non controversial. 

Mr Mwiimbu: … and it should not even be controversial one.

Hon. UPND Member: It is straightforward.

Mr Mwiimbu: This is a straightforward issue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, as is the case with this hon. Member, he always waits until the debater is about to conclude before raising a point of order so as not to disturb the flow of thought of the debater.

Mr Chairperson, obviously, you realise that this is very provoked point of order. 

The Chairperson: Order, order!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, is Hon. Jack Mwiimbu in order to continue debating without listening to your very wise guidance and using it to rubbish the point of order that was raised on me by his colleague and to also indicate to him that his point of order was actually an attempt at putting words in the mouth of Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, when he referred to me as having criticised the former Government, when the issue that was presented by Hon. Jack Mwiimbu was that I had objected to the former President receiving benefits for as long he held office of  President of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

Mr Chairperson, in addition, is Hon. Jack Mwiimbu in order to continue talking about the benefits and, in particular, the assignment of the house of the President, and referring to section 4 (a) without clearly stating that the law he is referring to states that the house will be assigned within a period of two years and not after two years which means that it could actually be assigned one hour or one minute after the person has been declared former President, and that the issue is about the assignment and not the building of the house. Is he order to continue talking about this issue and turn this House into a theatre? 

I need your ruling, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: To the extent that you have adequately debated your point of order, he is in order.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I am indebted to Hon. Lubinda for agreeing that he had objected to the former President who was, at the time, sitting to enjoy the benefit before retiring. He is agreeing with me. He is also agreeing with me that the house can only be assigned to a former President of the Republic of Zambia. He has also agreed that you can only be assigned a house built for you when you are a former President.

Mr Namulambe: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: Order, order!

At the rate we are going, and especially that we are not patient and do not want to listen to the person debating, I may be compelled not to allow further points of order but, for now, you have your point of order.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, my argument was …

Hon. Members: Is that a point of order?

Mr Namulambe: Yes I am raising a point of order and I have to build it up. My argument …

The Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central Constituency in order not to cite the section of the Act which he is referring to, which states at what point the house should start being built or is he talking about a section which talks about the time when this house can be given. 

I need your ruling, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is to the extent that you chose what to debate on. Therefore, he too has a right to choose what to debate on.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I noted that he confessed that he is not a lawyer but, for his benefit, let me, once again, …

Hon. Members: Question.

The Chairperson: Order, order!

Continue with your debate, please.

Mr Mwiimbu: … quote what the law states.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, section 4 (a) states …

Mr Sichinga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Order!

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, this House is assumed to be knowledgeable. Is the hon. Member for Monze Central Constituency in order to assume and make aspersions that this House is only for those that can interpret the law and are qualified as lawyers.

Interruptions

Mr Sichinga: Is he order to imply that. I seek your very serious ruling, Sir.

The Chairperson: Order, order!

I did not get the point of order because of interferences. May, you please, make the point of order.

Mr Sichinga: Is the hon. Member for Monze Central Constituency in order to imply that only lawyers that are in this House can interpret the laws that we make in this House. 

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: To the extent that he did not say that only lawyers have the capacity to interpret the law, he is in order. 

You may continue. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I will quickly quote Section 4 (a) 1 (a), which reads:

“Assigned to a former president within a period of not more than two years, from the date of ceasing to hold office, a furnished executive house built or bought in Zambia, in a place of his choice.”

Mr Chairperson, “upon ceasing to hold office within two years.”This is what the law says. Hon. Namulambe should look at this law. 

Mr Muntanga:He needs an interpreter. 

Mr Nkombo: We need to interpret the law in Lamba. 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, …

Interruptions

Hon. UPND Member:He has run away. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Please, let us allow the man to debate. 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, as I conclude my debate, I want to appeal to all hon. Members to uphold the laws that we pass in this House. If not, we risk causing a state of lawlessness in this country. 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

 Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, this law was passed by this House. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate the budget for the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication for and on behalf of the people of Lupososhi Constituency in Luwingu District in the Northern Province of Zambia. 

Mr Chairperson, it is important to always be proactive rather than reactive. Concerning the issues raised about the President’s house, I wish to adopt Hon. Gabriel Namulambe’s debate as my own. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication is critical. In fact, it is the lifeblood of any government that takes over the reins of power. This ministry needs to be very active and efficient in the delivery of goods and services to the people of Zambia. It is this ministry that is charged with the responsibility of all the works, as can be seen from the President’s concern, and quick action to have the works delivered. We should be very careful in our implementation of the projects that have been earmarked for the next five years. 

Mr Chairperson, the Link Zambia 8,000 is one such important project that requires the efficiency of the ministry. It is this project that will also see the return to power of the PF Government in the next general election. It is the project which will ensure that the rural areas are opened up to development and provided with quality works in roads and other infrastructure that our people so need. There is, therefore,a need for the ministry to embark on synergies that will ensure that all the expertise in various ministries that relate to engineering are brought together to assist the Road Development Agency (RDA). 

Mr Chairperson, I have in mind the Zambia National Service (ZNS) under the Ministry of Defence. This wing of Government has a lot of expertise and machinery. If coerced to work with the Rural Road Unit (RRU), the issue of feeder roads in rural areas can be dealt with very effectively and efficiently. All the resources allocated to these works would revolve within the ministries. The equipment for ZNS and RRU is good. However, it requires attention. We need to bring these two units together so that we can send the equipment to rural areas. Only then can we allow the RDA to concentrate on the bituminous roads. Currently, there is a cry within the RDA about inadequate engineers, and yet we have engineers in the Zambia Air Force (ZAF), Zambia Army and ZNS. These can be brought together to help the Government to bring about quality development in as far as roads are concerned. 

The other aspect regarding works is the proliferation of construction works in every ministry. This previously was a preserve for the Ministry of Works and Supply. Now, there is construction of schools in the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and construction of houses in other ministries. Why do we not bring all these construction works under one umbrella so that they are properly administered? 

This way, supervision will be effective and the utilisation of resources will also bring about quality implementation of the programmes. Sir, I would like to see a situation where the Ministries of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Defence, Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and any other ministry involved in construction to work out a plan so that we can have the synergies that will bring about positive development. 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister made reference to the creation of an airline. This is very important because we have had no airline for a very long time now. I would also like to talk about the Zambia Air Services Training Institute (ZASTI) in relation to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. This institute plays a critical role because it offers civil aviation-related training programmes. The institute is currently under the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when the Civil Aviation Department is in the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply, and Communication. 

Mr Chairperson, the school was established in 1969 and has been changing ministries since then. Firstly, it was under the Ministry of Power, Transport and Communication. In 1970, it was placed under the Commission for Technical Education and Vocational Training. In 1971, the Flying School was introduced. In 1973, the Engineering School was introduced at this school. In 1988, this school was moved back to the Ministry of Power, Transport and Communication from the Ministry of Higher Education. In 1992, it was moved to the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training. In 1998, the Technical Education Vocational Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) Act was enacted. In 2000, ZASTI was established. The issue here is that ZASTI has been changing hands and has not been able to focus because its policies keep changing as the ministries change.

I, therefore, wish to appeal to the Ministries of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to look at this school and see how best it can be utilised. 

Mr Chairperson, the 2012 Civil Aviation Act No 12 Section 87 has, again, put ZASTI in limbo. This Section states that the authority will either establish the school or take over the existing schools. This makes us unsure whether ZASTI will be taken over by the Civil Aviation Authority or the authority will decide to build another school. For us to establish a national airline, we shall need pilots. The last time pilots were trained in this country was in 1988. The rest of the pilots are old and need to be retrained. Unfortunately, some of them will even soon reach the age of sixty-five which is the maximum age allowed for someone to fly a plane in the field of civil aviation. I think my good hon. Member of Parliament for Keembe will agree with me that training to be a pilot on a plane which was bought in 1969 is not good. Those are the planes which are being used at ZASTI instead of latest ones.

Therefore, hon. Minister, if civil aviation has to be developed, we also need to have a training school that will train pilots properly. I do have people in Lupososhi Constituency who are my own young brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews who want to be pilots. They can only do that training in this country because they cannot afford to pay the expensive fees in other countries.

Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate the policy statement for the allocation to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. First of all, I want to commend the hon. Minister for a lengthy statement. The statement was good because the hon. Minister mentioned many good things in there it.

Mr Yaluma: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: However, because the statement was lengthy, it shows, Mr Chairperson, that this ministry needs to unbundled. We need to create two or more ministries out of it in order to quickly develop country. Too much power and work which urgently needs to be done has been invested in one ministry. It becomes very difficult for things to be done that way. That is why the statement was lengthy.

Mr Chairperson, I want to thank the hon. Minister for proactively dealing with the issues concerning our roads. I am happy that they have taken over the plans of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and just want to improve upon them. It is also good that Landless Corner is now going to be tarred. The hon. Minister looked at a number of good areas in the statement.

One important area, Sir, which was looked at is the Mongu/Kalabo Road. My advise to the hon. Minister is that this road should not end in Kalabo. Let their vision of this road not end in Kalabo. The MMD vision was to go through Sikongo right up to the border of Angola and Zambia.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: That way, we are going to capture the much needed market in Angola on the eastern and western sides. So, let our vision go beyond Kalabo. Let our vision go beyond many other borders as we deal with the construction of our roads. Whilst on the roads, I did not hear the hon. Minister talk about toll-gates. Toll-gates can help any government to raise resources. Unfortunately, I was singing the same language when we were in government as the MMD, but little attention was paid to my song. There are huge sums of money that this nation can get from toll-gates that we would not even need to touch our own budget when working on the roads. If we can have a very good plan for the toll-gates, we will realise lots of resources for ourselves which will help us a great deal.

Sir, I want to adopt Hon. Bwalya’s debate as my own debate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: He debated very wisely on the need for us to improve and expand our aviation industry. Zambia is very big. Whilst acknowledging the fact that it is important for us to work on our roads, I still also think that there is a need to develop the air transport in order to deal with the current modern development in the world where you must reach people quicker. Therefore, it is important that we develop the airports and also the airfields. Let me explain the difference between airports and airfields. The airfields are those which are not necessarily tarred, but are developed enough such that planes can land there for any emergencies. Airfields can also be used to reach the borders of the country. As a pilot for so many years, I know that we used many of these airfields to help Zambia to secure its own national security. Sadly, the airfields are fading away. We had these in Sikongo, Nakulenga, and Nchocha in the Northern Province.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, houses have now been built on the Nchocha Airfield and yet we should be using it for other operations. There are times when you must move quickly to get to the borders through the use of the airfields.

Mr Chairperson, let me also discuss one other issue that has been debated and that is the issue of the house for the President. I take Hon. Mwiimbu’s debate as my own.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Sir, this is a Government of laws. How is it going to look to the international eyes that the law that we passed ourselves is being abrogated? There is going to be repercussions from the donors because they can read and interpret the law. There shall be effects for our doing the wrong thing. If you want a house to be built for President Sata, come to the House and change the law. I want President Sata to have a house because he is my brother.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Interruptions

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, let them come to this House and change the law. It is very simple. They can allow us to pass a new law so that President Sata can have a house. They should not bring illegality into Parliament and ask us to support it. That will not give us a good image in the eyes of the international community.

Interruptions

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Our international position now, I want to tell you, I was Minister of Foreign Affairs …

Mr Kampyongo: A point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I would like to find out whether the hon. Member who is currently on the Floor is in order to mislead the nation and this House that the figures the hon. Minister was quoting, which figures were passed by this honourable House through the previous budgets, are not legitimate? Is he in order to come back today and tell the nation that by passing those figures the hon. Minister was quoting today, the hon. Members were doing something which is illegal?

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Kampyongo: I need your serious ruling, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mulusa: There is no point of order!

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha you may continue, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Iwe minister maiche nkakutwala ku church board!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You may continue with your debate.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much that you have allowed me to continue with my debate. I was just joking with him.

Sir, it is important for us to remain within the confines of the law in whatever we do in this House. Let them just bring the necessary amendments to the law which we shall pass so that the President’s House can be built before he retires. It is wrong for the law to be broken in this House. We all want President Michael Chilufya Sata to have a house. All we saying is that the house should be built without us having to break the law. To the Zambians, it will look like this Parliament is only here to break the law. To the international community, it will look like the PF is not running a government of laws.

Mr Nkombo: But that is true!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, we should always look at the repercussions of whatever we do. I was Minister of Foreign Affairs and I know what goes on. The donors watch every word that is spoken. They watch all your actions and check if you are breaking the law or not. They will watch and tie your actions to any aid which they are going to give you. The Canadians for example, and many others, watch and say, what is Zambia doing? They may reduce their support to Zambia if they notice illegalities in our governance system. 

Mr Chairperson, I would like to appeal to the Government to ensure that we all do things within the confines of law because it will be for our own good.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to persuade Ministers to stop breaking the law when he knows that the President has directed that any minister who is corrupt can not be interviewed by the Anti Corruption Commission (ACC) without his knowledge like in the case of the hon. Minister of Justice. I need your serious ruling, sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Member who is still debating on the Floor of the House is in order.

Lieutenant General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, the other area where I wanted the hon. Minister to look at is the greater city of Lusaka. Currently, driving in Lusaka is so difficult because there is a lot of congestion on the roads. This situation will get worse in the next three to fours years. I remember during a Cabinet meeting that was chaired by late President Mwanawasa, I said we were going to have a problem with the copper once we start producing more. I told that meeting that the roads were going to get damaged and this is what is happening now.

Sir, it is necessary for us to have a very clear plan for the city’s outer and ring roads. The Government should make use of the plan which was developed by the MMD. This plan if applied well, will help decongest the roads in Lusaka. This problem will get worse in future. Implementing the plan which I am talking about will also boot business activities in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kabimba, SC.): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to add my voice to the debate, especially on the allocation, of money to the construction of the retirement house of the President.

Sir, let me begin by saying that I have always listened very patiently to my colleagues who tend to become personal when debating national matters. I am not responsible for any errors of political judgement which resulted in them not winning the elections. Please, let them not hold me responsible for being bad politicians.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chairperson, I would like to say that the people of Zambia listen to the debates of this House. It does not matter what people think about me. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I am the hon. Minister of Justice now.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba: Mr Chairperson, I would like to anchor my debate on two debates. The first one by Hon. Namulambe and the other by my dear brother in law Hon Jack Mwiimbu. The debate hinges on the interpretation of Section 4 of Act No. 21 of 1998, which talks about the benefits of former Presidents. The interpretation is very straightforward. That piece of legislation deals with a house provided to a former President.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba: Mr Chairperson, I would like to say that the debate over this matter is not about Michael Sata as an individual, but about the Presidency. This law was put in place for benefit of former Presidents. I would like to adopt the debate by my brother Hon. Namulambe as my own. He may not be a lawyer, but his interpretation of the law is very correct.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba: The only thing he does not have is a degree in law from the University of Zambia (UNZA) and a practicing certificate. I would like to debate that my learned brother in law has misdirected himself in terms of the interpretation Section 4 of Act No. 21 of 1998.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba: Sir, in order to assist myself in my debate, I have borrowed this big dictionary from this House. It is the New Oxford Dictionary of English and I will pass it over to Hon. Mwiimbu at the end. According to this dictionary, the word assign when it refers to a legal situation, means to transfer. That is what it means. Section 4 says “the State shall assign to a former president, within a period of not more than two years.” So, the actual legal transfer of this property is done when the President is out of office. The question is: Does that mean you cannot provide for funds in the Budget for the house to be built while the President is in office, as has been the case in the last few years? That is not what it means. Does it, therefore, before the President gets out of office, you cannot build the house? No, that is not what the law says.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba: The law says you can build the house now because during this period, this asset remains the property of the State.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear1

Mr Kabimba: Mr Chairperson, the house is only handed over at the appropriate time. That appropriate time is when the individual who used to occupy the presidency leaves office. At that time, you assign the property to him. It is a very straightforward matter. I think that there is nothing illegal that was done by the MMD when they provided funds in the Budget for the construction of a house for a former President. It is also not illegal for this House to be called upon to provide for the construction of a house for President Sata.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to say that we must be very careful as a country in the manner in which we protect the Office of the President. We must be very careful and not mix the individuals in that office and the Presidency itself as an office. The example was given in the United States of America. The only reason Bill Clinton was not impeached over the Monica Lewinsky scandal was because the Americans wanted to protect the Presidency and not Bill Clinton as an individual.

Mr Mulusa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mulusa: Sir, I rise on a very important point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Justice in order to interpret the Act halfway through? When he says, “assign” and “it can be built earlier”, I agree. However, at the end, the Act says, “at a place of the former President’s choice”, meaning that the President only qualifies to choose where his House must be built when he is a former President.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Is the hon. Minister in order not to read the entire Act and assist us, laymen in legal matters, and the nation at large, by interpreting this Act correctly? 

I need your serious ruling against the State Counsel.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that different people have different interpretations of the law. Therefore, he is in order to interpret that particular Act the way he has done.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Kabimba, SC: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for your great indulgence. I was submitting that the operative word in this Act is ‘assign’ and I had moved on to debate on the question by way of caution to hon. Members of Parliament here and the nation at large that we needed to protect the Presidency. We need to protect the Office of the President because it is the embodiment of the dignity, security and pride of this country. It does not matter who occupies that office or who your preferred candidate was because, when you lost the election, the people of Zambia decided to choose the PF.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Kabimba, SC: Therefore, the people of Zambia spoke on 20th September, 2011.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Let us allow the hon. Minister to debate. You will also be given an opportunity to do so.

Proceed, hon. Minister.

Mr Kabimba, SC: Mr Chairperson, thank you for your indulgence again. I was submitting that this is a country where the Office of the President must be protected and guarded jealously. I was also saying that the tendency to belittle the Office of the President on account of the citizen occupying it is not right for this country, especially coming from this House.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC: Mr Chairperson, I want to repeat what I have said before: I understand the anguish of losing an election. We have lost elections before. Therefore, that does not make it a point for not respecting a person who is elected.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Please, let us learn to give each other the opportunity to speak. Decisions in this House are made on the basis of how you are able to convince the other. Therefore, when you are given the opportunity to debate, that is your time to put across your point of view in order to convince others. So, let us be patient with each. I will give you ample opportunity to debate.

Continue, hon. Minister

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Interruption

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I rise a serious point of order on my brother-in-law, the hon. Minister of Justice. He mentioned to this House that, as we stand to speak, we should not be seen to be trivialising issues and discussing individuals, but discuss issues as they are and protect the Presidency. Is it in order for him to start trivialising the debate on the Floor of this House and bringing in the name of the President in his discussion as if we are discussing President Michael Sata? We are looking at the issue of former Presidents, as provided by the law. Is he in order to continue doing what he is doing, considering that he is the hon. Minister of Justice?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

I followed the debate by the hon. Minister and my assessment is that he was not trivialising the debate. Maybe, the examples given were misunderstood, but the ruling is that there was no trivialising of the issues before us.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC: Mr Chairperson, I thank you most sincerely.

Mr Chairperson, in the final analysis, what this House is trying to do is, really, nothing other than good planning. To budget for the President’s retirement now is good planning. The deficit we have, in respect of the houses of former Presidents, namely, Dr Rupiah Banda, the late Dr Chiluba and the Dr Mwanawasa, SC., is indicative of our poor planning, as a nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC: Mr Chairperson, we cannot continue with this backlog on the houses for former Presidents. Therefore, what we are proposing is an indication and demonstration of a Government that has come with forward and prudent planning.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC: Mr Chairperson, we want to do this for all the Presidents, including future ones. So, to argue that this is illegal and that, if we need an amendment, we should bring one, this law does not require any amendment. To debate that the Canadians will not give us money is to misunderstand how the Canadians read English and understand the law.

Laughter

Mr Kabimba, SC: Mr Chairperson, I want to say that any foreign country, and I am sure this goes for any donor country, that is relating with Zambia in good faith will find absolutely nothing illegal about this budget line. I, therefore, submit that we should not stand in this House and pander to the donors over matters that are straightforward.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to say that donors are here to represent the interests of their own countries. They do not come here to run this Government. We run this Government on behalf of the people of Zambia. They voted for this Government, and I did not see any donor on the queue casting a vote.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Mr Kabimba, SC: Therefore, our primary responsibility, as a Government, is to the people and citizens of this country.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kabimba: I know, Mr Chairperson, that there are people here dinning and wining with donors, thinking that the donors are going to run this Government, but they are wrong, for the first time.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Kabimba: We are going to run this Government. So, we are here to make courageous decisions that serve the people of Zambia and their interests, not of the donors. You can get their wine and dine with them, but they shall not run this Government.

In conclusion, Mr Chairman, there is nothing illegal about this budget line.  I hope that my colleagues from both sides on your left will support …

Hon. Opposition Member: Question.

Mr Kabimba:  … the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication.

I thank you very much, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate.

I want to …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson:  Order!

You can continue, Hon. Nkombo.

Mr Nkombo: I would like to state that, in my view, the insensitive manner in which the PF has forcefully brought in this Vote has, now, subdued many other activities of this Ministry’s budget line. This, to me, is a matter of not only legality, but also morality. 

Sir, I want to remind the hon. Minister of Justice, very quickly, that, whenever you go into a competition, there is wisdom in knowing that a winner will emerge. When we went into an electoral competition in 2011, only a fool did not know that a winner would emerge. Therefore, it goes without saying that, yes, the Zambian people spoke, and this issue of saying ‘bitterness’ is now like a broken old record. It should be discarded.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: We knew perfectly well that we were going to go into an election. We were in a pact with the PF Government but, because we saw the dangers of their impunity of wanting to do things the way they wished and against the law, ….

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … the UPND withdrew from the pact. Winning was not the issue because, had we decided winning as the most important thing, we would have tagged along.

Interjections

Mr Nkombo: Keep quiet, someone. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, we foresaw these complications of the PF wanting to ignore the law at every stage of its governance. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: It is easy to say that the presidency must be protected. We all subscribe to the fact that the presidency of this country requires to be protected, and I have said it, time and again, that, when we are outside these borders, we have no choice, but to elevate, against all odds, the name of President Michael Chilufya Sata. We have no choice because he is our President and we believe in the democratic dispensation of our country. 

Those hon. Members across, on your right, Sir, are going to pay for this impunity one day in the future.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Very soon.

Mr Nkombo: It is also important to remember that the only thing that is constant is change. The arrogance of numbers that is being applied on a matter that is so crucial amounts to impunity for me. Sir, sitting in the Chair as you are, there are issues of legality. You have, time and again, advised that this House is there to make laws. For interpretation, you go to court. We shall …

Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: You sit down. We are going to court.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Will the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central withdraw that remark?

Mr Nkombo:  I apologise to Hon. Chisala for asking him to sit down.

Mr Chisala remained standing.

Mr Nkombo:  Sit down, please. 

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Nkombo:  There can only be one person on the Floor, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

When somebody is speaking, nobody else can stand. Now, I called upon Hon. Nkombo to apologise. So, at that point in time, Hon. Chisala should have taken his seat. Will the hon.  Member for Mazabuka Central withdraw his remarks.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I withdraw, for the second time, because I am an orderly human being.

Sir, as I apologise to Hon. Chisala, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

I note that there was a point of order and I am allowing Hon. Chisala to make his point of order. 

Mr Chisala:  Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to stand on a procedural point of order. My point of order does not border on injuring anyone. I just want proper guidance from the Chair. 

Mr Chairperson, when I was first elected, in 2006, as an hon. Member of Parliament to represent the people of Chilubi, a former Speaker, who has since retired – may he continue enjoying his retirement – advised hon. Members, during the orientation workshop, that, when an hon. Cabinet Minister or Deputy Minister is on the Floor, no Back Bencher is supposed to raise a point of order. However, what I have observed, since the 2011 General Elections, is that this rule is no longer given the regard it deserves. 

Therefore, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

On whom is the point of order being raised?

Mr Chisala:  No, it is a point of procedure, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Can you make your point of order and mention the person you are raising it on. Come out clearly.

You can continue.

Mr Chisala: It is a point of procedure. Are the hon. Members of the Opposition in order to continue disturbing hon. Cabinet Ministers whenever they are …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: … on the Floor of the House by rising on points of order when they are not supposed to do that? 

I need your serious guidance, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The rules of the game allow for points of order. When the Chair has given a point of order, it is for a good reason. It allows the House so that the House can get the necessary clarification and guidance that it most deserves. I will not say more than that.

May the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central continue, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo:  Mr Chairperson, I am most indebted to your wisdom. That is the PF for you. What you saw in Chilubi is a clear mirror image of the PF. 

When the point of order was raised, I was in the middle of saying that …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Continue debating. Do not debate the hon. Member for Chilubi.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Clear image.

Mr Nkombo:  Sir, when the point of order was raised, I was in the middle of agreeing with Hon. Kabimba when he said that the presidency must be protected. I could not agree with him any more than I did. The presidency, including the presidency of the incumbent, must be respected and protected. I also wish to say that what is good for the goose is good for the gander because the same hon. Minister of Justice is on record, when he was only the PF Secretary-General, having displayed an amount of dislike and hatred for the Former President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, which is written all over the walls of this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo:  That is a true and undisputable fact. So, I would like to say that, yes, indeed, depending on where you are seated, you view things differently. I want to remind my elder brother that hypocrisy is not a virtue in this place.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! It is a sin.

Mr Mucheleka: Sir, one way of demonstrating that you are really serious and you want to effect positive change is by freeing some of these important constitutional offices such as the Auditor-General’s Office. Give it the mandate to do its work. You should strengthen it so that we do not just remove people from their positions and afterwards, the same people are promoted. Some of the culprits in the previous administration are holding very important offices in the current administration. 

Interruptions

Mr Mucheleka: What does that tell you? How committed are you to ensuring that the resources that are meant for the poor people are, indeed, used for the intended purpose? 

Sir, if you look at the Auditor-General’s Report, you will find that there were a lot of activities that were meant to undertake the poverty reduction programmes in Lubansenshi Constituency. You will find that those funds did not reach the intended purpose. They were misapplied through outright theft. There were a lot of corrupt activities and the Auditor-General’s Office, working under very difficult conditions, has been able to reveal this information. Where do we go from here? 

Sir, the point I am making is that we should show transparency. You should allow the President to do his work. Do not hold him captive. The President is very determined and he would like to ensure that these institutions are strengthened. Some of the people who would want to use the President to ascend to political power think that they can hold him captive and compromise these institutions to ensure that they remain weak so that they can carry on with their activities. That will not be allowed. Zambians are seeing and the civil society out there is watching. It is watching Parliament…

Mr Muchelekadrank some water.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, it is worrying. The only time that we shall say, “Well done PF administration!” is when you demonstrate that you can free these institutions. The President might mean well, but there are those who think they can use the President to ascend to political power. That will not happen. 

Mr Muntangainterjected.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, in the same way, we talked about the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ),the Auditor-General’s Office requires to be funded adequately and create an enabling environment for it to be able to do its work. We have our lady, the Auditor-General, Mrs Anna Chifungula. She has done very well under difficult conditions together with her staff. They need support. This support is not by indicating that you have increased the budget when, in actual fact, you have not, and yet the scope of work has increased. You are now taking corruption into the provinces where you will say the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) will just provide an oversight. What are you doing? It means that they will have a lot of work to do because of those cadres you have appointed in the provinces as Permanent Secretaries. There are District Commissioners who are cadres who are not adding any value to this country. That cannot be allowed.

Mr Chairperson, I want to seriously call upon the Executive to support this office. You do not even have to wait until the Constitution comes through. You can begin to make certain amendments in order to strengthen this important office.

Mr Speaker, with these remarks, I wish to reluctantly support this Budget, but I am hoping that His Honour the Vice-President will come back and, at least, put some more money in this important institution. 

I thank you, Mr Chairperson. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, I want to render my qualified support for the Budget on the Floor of this House and also wish to thank my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi, for adequately addressing some of the issues that I wanted to raise.

Mr Chairperson, this is my twelfth year in this House and debating this particular Vote relating to the Office of the Auditor-General. During the last eleven years, the House has been reminding the Executive with regard to the inadequacies pertaining to the powers of the Auditor-General. To date, nothing much has changed. I am saddened to note that the Office of the Auditor-General has been deliberately weakened by those in authority. What we have noted, as hon. Members of the Opposition, is that when members of the Executive are serving, and they are involved in matters of financial intransigencies, the Office of the Auditor-General is loudly quiet. Immediately one member of the Executive is removed or ceases to be a member of the Executive, the Office of the Auditor-General will wake up from slumber and follow up issues that affect that particular individual. This should not be the case. 

Mr Chairperson, the Auditor-General’s Office, as a watchdog institution, is supposed to be cognisant of the issues of impropriety in public affairs. It should conduct its affairs professionally and impartially but, alas, we have noted a number of issues that hinge on impartiality. As the Opposition, we also expect the Auditor-General to advise the Executive that some of those persons who have been appointed as controlling officers are not qualified to hold those offices. If they are not qualified, they should not continue being accorded the privilege of being controlling officers. That is the responsibility of the Auditor-General. The Auditor-General is loudly quiet pertaining to the appointments of controlling officers that have been made by our colleagues on your right side. Most of the controlling officers who have been appointed have no qualifications to hold those positions. 

Mr Chikwanda interjected.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Minister of Finance, please, do not engage the person on the Floor. 

Can the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, for the benefit of the hon. Minister of Finance, if a person is not qualified to hold a position of Permanent Secretary and be able to manage the finances of that particular office, the Auditor-General must be able to advise the hon. Minister of Finance on that issue. If one is not qualified to be a controlling officer, there is no way that person can manage the finances of the country.

Mr Chikwanda: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I reluctantly raise a point of order, but Hon. Mwiimbu has got a very vast knowledge of law and he can debate in enormous capacities. Is he in order to mislead the House into thinking that the Ministry of Finance would have anything to do with the appointment of Permanent Secretaries. These are constitutional officers appointed by His Excellency the President and there is no law anywhere, where even the Auditor-General can advise the President on the appointment of Permanent Secretaries, except to the extent that they have committed offences and then a channel is followed and not the channels that he is proposing. 

I need your serous ruling, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Minister of Finance has cleverly tried to subvert the ruling of the Chair, but be that as it may, you can take his point of order into account as you debate. 

Can the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, gladly…

Mr Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

I want to apologise to the donors in the most sincere way …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … for the manner in which they have been addressed by the hon. Minister of Justice.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I will plead with the donors.  I will go and see them this afternoon …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … and have tea and coffee with them at my cost, and apologise. I will tell them, like Jesus said, ‘forgive them father, for they do not know what they are doing’.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, this is a typical example of what the hon. Minister of Justice has done today.

Mr Chairperson, I thank Hon. Yaluma for his statement and the humility with which he delivered it. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Nkombo: … I salute him, especially for recognising Hon. Professor Lungwangwa and excluding Hon. Namulambe. I salute him.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I want him to plead with the President, when he goes to State House, to bring back the Road Development Agency (RDA) to his ministry. 

Hon. Government Members: Awe!

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Yaluma should plead with the President and tell him that hon. Members think that this department must go back to the ministry. If he refuses, tell him to also take charge of the runways at the airports because an airport is just a road for a plane. If he refuses that, tell him to take over the railway lines because a rail line is a road for a locomotive.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, if he refuses to do that as well, tell him to take over the Mulamba Harbour so that … 

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, there is a Marketeer who has continued to talk.

Hon. Government Member: Posapo.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I have advised you on the need for you to respect one another. As you know, there is no marketeer in this House. The people on both my left and right are hon. Members of Parliament. Please, let us not treat each other like that. I hope I will not have to remind you again against using the word ‘marketeer’. 

You may continue.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Yaluma should plead with His Excellency, King Cobra Sata, to bring back that department to his ministry because it makes sense to do so. Finally, I want us to reflect on the things that I have said today, and it must be on record that I have said these things without any grain or ounce of bitterness because we are running this country together.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, everytime we do anything in this House, we do it in order to satisfy the aspirations and interests of the people who sent us here.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

There is only one Chairperson, who, unfortunately, is the one talking now.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this rare opportunity to add my voice, on behalf of the people of Chembe and Milenge, to the debate on the Floor of this House.

Mr Chairperson, for me, this …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Let there be silence so that we allow the hon. Member to debate, please.

Mr Mbulakulima: … item is solemn, and I do not want to shout, but be very calm.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, this is a sad moment. Dear colleagues, I believe that, legally speaking, the battle has been won by the Opposition. However, there is no winner or loser in such matters. I appeal to your moral conscience. You should reflect on this. I know that what we say and do here is different from what we do when we are outside this House. What goes around comes back around. We have shared a lot on national matters. Issues of this nature need to be handled with care. I know that the majority of you here do not agree with us. I want to ask a question: Who is a friend?

Hon. Opposition Member: Namulambe!

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, a good friend is not just one who agrees with you on all issues. A good friend is one who tells you when you are wrong. I do not want to believe that you mean well for the President over a matter like this. If you are, indeed, friends of the President, this is a matter that can tarnish his image and that of the country. The President needs to be advised and he has no interest over this matter.  Hon. Members of Parliament, we made this law, and I do not think that it is right for us to go over this matter. The law is straightforward, I believe. For instance, you all know that, when Dr Chiluba retired, but was still seen to be engaging in active politics, this same law which talks about the conditions of service for former heads of State says, under Section 5 (i) that the pension and other benefits conferred by this Act shall not be paid, signed or provided – and provided means that funds cannot even be incorporated in the Budget –

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Mbulakulima: – Mr Chairperson, it is straightforward. It cannot be provided for. When you put an item in the Yellow Book, you are providing funds for it –

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Mbulakulima: – to the former President in receipt of a salary from the Government  or engaged in active politics

Mr Chairperson, we all know, for example, that Dr Chiluba had civil and personal liberty to associate. However, because of the Constitution, he was barred from doing this. Not long ago, when His Excellency, Mr Rupiah Banda, left office, he said that he was not in a hurry and wanted to help the country by leaving the MMD in a stronger position. He made it very clear that he was not going to be available forever. However, my colleagues in the PF, I think that you recall what you did. You were in a hurry to see him off because you believed that he was working against the Constitution. 

Sir, the Constitution is very clear. In this regard, I believe, there is no lacuna whatsoever in the Constitution. However, you want to believe that there is. This is your own creation.

Mr Chairperson, these are the same people who keep talking about the resource envelope not being enough to accommodate many items. We still have a backlog of funds to allocate for the former heads of State. We have not yet provided for Dr Chiluba, Dr Mwanawasa, and Dr Rupiah Banda. How do you add another problem to existing ones? We are the people who are talking about the limited resource envelope. Where is our conscience?

Hon. Opposition Members: Morality!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, where is our morality?

Mr Nkombo: There is no morality.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, when it suits them, they call it planning but, when it does not, they say that it is the resource envelop that is limited. They keep talking about the competing needs that this country has to provide for. For example, in my constituency, for the first time since Independence, I saw a gravel road being patched. How do you patch a gravel road?

Hon. Opposition Member: Sure!

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, when I asked about this, I was told that there were no resources to do more than that. If there are no resources, why do you want to start building four or five houses at the same time? Dear colleagues, I appeal to your conscience. An item like this one should not split us. I want to believe that His Excellency, President Sata, is going to run for a second term.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

The Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1256 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 11th December, 2012.