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Tuesday, 13th March, 2018
Tuesday, 13th March, 2018
The House met at 1430 hours
[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
_____
ANNOUNCEMENT BY MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER
ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to the other Government business. The hon. Chief Whip, Hon. Stephen Chungu, MP, has been appointed Acting Leader of the Government Business in the House today, 13th March, 2018 until further notice.
I thank you.
______
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
DISTRIBUTION OF SCHOOL BOOKS BY PF
219. Mr Chabi (Chipili) asked the Vice-President:
- why the Government had allowed the Patriotic Front (PF) Party to distribute, to schools, books bearing not only the Presidential portrait, but also the PF Logo;
- whether the distribution does not constitute a political campaign tool;
- if so, whether other political parties were at liberty to distribute similar political materials to schools; and
- whether would-be recipients could decline the donation.
The Minister in the Office of the Vice-President (Ms Chalikosa): Madam Speaker, the Government places a high premium on education in the development prospect of our country. However, there is a large segment of our population that is severely resource constrained to afford basic school requisites. Cognisant of this fact, His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu has devoted part of his earnings to meeting this need among the most vulnerable members of our society, by distributing exercise books.
Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu is not only President of the Republic of Zambia, but of the Patriotic Front (PF) Party. According to the PF Manifesto of 2016 to 2021, the early childhood education is among the major priorities. Accordingly, Chapter 1 (a) (2) provides that in order to enhance access to and, improve the quality of early childhood education, the PF Government shall develop and distribute teaching and learning materials. Therefore, the distribution of learning materials should be understood in this light. The portrait and logo placed on the books does not diminish or increase their value in any way.
Madam Speaker, this August House already knows that we are not in an election season.
Mr Livune: Question!
Ms Chalikosa: Hence the campaign period is still very far.
Mr Kampyongo: Manta.
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, therefore, an act of charity in the distribution of exercise books does not constitute a political campaign tool in any way. The Government cannot stop acts of charity as long as donations are devoid of political undertones. It is not up to the Government to dictate to the would-be recipients whether to decline or accept donations, especially, if such donations are well intended.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to seek clarification pertaining to the statement that has been made by the hon. Minister in the Office of Her Honour the Vice-President. The hon. Minister has indicated to this House and the nation at large that the Government cannot stop acts of charity, as long as the donations are devoid of any political connotations. That is very clear from her statement. Are you not aware that members of the public and, the pupils who have received these donations view them as a political campaign tool for the PF? If that is the perception by members of the public, are you in a position to direct the PF President to stop campaigning and abusing our children? Using political slogans to campaign through children is an abuse. Are you in a position to stop these campaigns in schools? If you are not in a position to do so, could you state whether every member of the public with political inclinations is allowed to do what the PF is doing in schools?
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, to begin with, children are not voters. There has also been no slogan urging them to vote for the PF.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, secondly, it is not written anywhere in the books that are being donated that people should vote for the PF. Thirdly, anybody who wants to donate, is free to do so.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: We are aware that the distinction in this case is that some leaders of the political parties are not the Republican President. That is the biggest distinction.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Opposition Member: Lies!
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chabi: Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm to the nation whether this is the Government programme or the PF programme?
Mr Livune: That is right!
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, like I said in my response, it is not the Government programme. The President is using his earnings to donate to the vulnerable groups in our society.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister not find it ironic that when it fits them, they say the President is the President for the whole country? However, when they start giving gifts, they give them to a selected few. They are the same people who are constraining the Ministry of the General Education from providing books and chalks in schools.
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, there is no irony in this at all, because when the President of the Republic of Zambia, decides to perform an act of charity, it does not stop the sector Ministry of Education from carrying out its duty in terms of providing books. It is not stopping the ministry from doing that at all. Therefore, it is not ironic.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that this is not a political move. Why is it then that these books have only been given to the hon. Members of Parliament who belong to the PF, whilst other places like Chienge have not received anything at all? We are aware that most hon. Members of Parliament belonging to the PF are in possession of these books. If it is not a political campaign, why have places like Chienge where they are Opposition Members been left out?
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, the President is following one of the pronouncements in the PF manifesto, which is to promote education by donating these books. If, truly, the hon. Members sitting in this House are interested in donating the books. They are free to visit our party secretariat, where they will be given the books to distribute to their respective constituency.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Chienge, did you get the response? You seem busy conversing with people. Did you get the response?
Ms Katuta: Madam Speaker, my apologies. I was being distracted by the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development. I was basically being harassed and I did not get the answer.
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister in the Office of the Vice-President will repeat the last part of her response.
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, I said that if the hon. Members sitting in this House would truly like to participate in the act of charity of donating books, they are free to visit our party secretariat and they will be given books to distribute to their respective constituency.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwene (Mangango): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has just mentioned that the books which are being donated to the schools are bearing the logo for the PF and the portrait of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. Is the hon. Minister confirming that it would be ok if today some other political leaders, for example Hakainde Hichilema ...
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwene: ... using his personal money, donated books with his portrait and the logo for the United Party for National Development (UPND) on them?
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, the Government is aware that during the cholera epidemic, some political parties donated chlorine bearing party logos. However, the government did not take that away from the fight against cholera. In the same vein, anybody who wishes to donate books is free to do so, ...
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: ... as long as they are not campaigning for their political party. That is what I said in my response.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Livune: Long live the minister!
Interruptions
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members on my left ...
Hon. UPND Members: We are happy!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... I am not sure that you all got the last part of that response.
Interruptions
Madam First Deputy Speaker: You did?
Hon. UPND Members: We did!
Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is saying there is liberty to contribute in any form as ascribed. Is she confirming that at no time from today, will any Permanent Secretary (PS) in the provinces be victimised as being partisan? It is allowed to have labelled materials contributed in that manner. Is she confirming that there will be no victimisation?
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, in my answer, I alluded to the fact that the PF Party President is also the Republic President. I would like hon. Members to make that distinction. I am not confirming that anybody will not be disciplined, should they be found supporting any political party.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Ms Chalikosa: I said, you can donate what you want as an act of charity, but I did not say print portraits.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, your earlier answer ...
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... was that if anybody else decided to donate as an act of charity, they are free to do so.
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is that position changing?
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, I did not say anything to do with printing. All I said was that they are free to donate as an act of charity, as long as they do not campaign for their political parties.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, I had an opportunity this weekend to travel to Kasama. I saw terrible poverty and suffering in all the constituencies from Serenje all the way to Kasama. The people in the Northern and Muchinga provinces are suffering a lot.
Which is more sustainable, the distribution of offal books and meat with the PF logo or the distribution of farming inputs?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will not answer that question.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Michelo: Question!
Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, I want to get clarity from the Minister in the Office of the Vice-President. The Government does not buy text books for schools or computers but instead, they go ahead and print these PF logos on text books. I would like to find out the value of that logo to the learner?
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to correct the impression that the Government is printing these books. These books are a project by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. As for programmes by the Government, the Government does provide text books in schools. The Government may not manage all the schools in the country, but it is an on-going programme. The Government does provide books.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Speaker, would the hon. Minister inform the hon. Members here and through us, the nation, how much it costs the President to provide these books and perhaps reveal the source of funding, is it from selling Mukula trees?
Hon. Opposition Members laughed.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mwinilunga …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: … you started very well asking a relevant question. However, you have brought in an issue that is not under discussion.
The hon. Minister will leave the last part of that question in responding to the hon. Member for Mwinilunga’s question.
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, I do not have the privilege of knowing the cost. However, if it is available, I can come back to the House with the figures.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Madam Speaker, prior to the 2011 General Election, we saw the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government procure thousands of bicycles if not millions but they still lost to the poor PF then. Is the hon. Minister not seeing the Government going that direction by printing these books and saying it is not a campaign move? In the way the Government is going, in 2021, do they not see that the rich PF now, might lose to the poor UPND?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister does not have to answer that question.
Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity. My background as a teacher, tells me that as a pupil, I must know my President from in and out.
Interruptions
Mr Mwamba: I must understand that my President …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwamba: … His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, is the sixth President. When a pupil is asked who the President is, he/she must be able to give an answer. Is it wrong that when His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu donates, others should feel offended? It is not an educative act of his Excellency the President? Can the hon. Minister confirm if it is wrong or an act of educative process?
Interruptions
Mr Livune: There is no question.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members on my left, order. Yes, it is a question and the hon. Minister will answer.
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, yes, it is an input in a subject called Civics, where we are supposed to learn about our leaders and certainly learning about our President is one area. Those books have a portrait of the Republican President, therefore, it adds to the education.
I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Livune (Katombola): Madam Speaker, it is our responsibility to remove encumbrances in society. Going by the response from the hon. Minister, what was the challenge in using national colours instead of the PF logos to campaign in schools? Are we seeing another party and its Government coming to the fore?
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, I will repeat, once again, it is the President’s individual project.
Mr Livune: Ah!
Ms Chalikosa: He is both the President of the PF party and the Republican President, for a country called Zambia. It is not a national activity.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!
Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, listening to subsequent questions and the answers that the hon. Minister will have to give, I am motivated to find out from the hon. Minister whether she knows of any law that has been broken by the distribution of these books? Whether that law be electoral law or indeed any other. I ask this because I swore to uphold the Constitution. It is important for me to be clear as to whether the law has been broken.
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, as far as I know, there is no law that has been broken. If anything, this act is just enhancing one of the pledges that the PF made in its manifesto, which is to promote education by way of developing and distributing teaching and learning materials.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga Central): Madam Speaker, in answering the hon. Member for Chipili on whether it is the Government programme or the PF programme, the hon. Minister said that it is not the Government programme. However, why is the President using the Government workers like the PS and the District Commissioners (DCs) to champion his private agenda?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, unfortunately for the hon. Member for Senanga Central, the PF Party President is also the Republican President. He is the only one who can use whatever is available to him in terms of personnel, vehicles and other logistics in order to go around the country to check on projects and with that, he can as well participate in individual projects`.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Chisangano: Madam Speaker, what is the life of this project? Will it go up to 2021 or beyond?
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, I have no idea about the life span of this project.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to make an assurance to the hon. Minister that she is going to have to eat these words she is using this afternoon, some day.
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, please withdraw that. Remember …
Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I withdraw a statement that ‘the hon. Minister may eat the words she is using one day in the future’.
Madam Speaker, there is a clear distinction between an act of desperation and benevolence, depending on where somebody is standing. May I find out from the hon. Minister in the Vice-President’s Office, whether or not the act of distributing these books with their party President’s Head and the PF symbol …
Dr Malama: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Dr Malama: Madam Speaker, it is a practice of this House that a member is to ask only one question. The hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central asked one question and, you asked him to withdraw it. The hon. Member has gone ahead to now ask another question ...
Laughter
Dr Malama: … and he is being allowed to go unabated.
I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my left. The hon. Member for Kanchibiya was obviously not following.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: I asked the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central to withdraw part of his preamble ...
Hon. UPND Members: Yes!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: … and he did that. He is yet to ask the question. Can the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central ask his question?
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, in the hon. Ministry’s response to the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge, where she sought to find out whether or not this very challenging programme that the PF has embarked is only exclusive, using her own words, to areas where the PF is represented. The hon. Minister indicated that yes, it is indeed true, and that people like me, can go to the PF secretariat to collect books if they so wish. Could this not be a qualification to a mountain of reasons of discrimination of innocent children? This can actually amount to the addition of the many Constitutional breaches that we intend to bring here for the impeachment of the President Edgar Lungu.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kampyongo: rose!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! I think the question as to whether or not or the fact that only children in certain areas are receiving these books, does not amount to discrimination, especially that some of the children in other areas are not receiving these books. The hon. Minister in the Office of the Vice-President, would you clarify the question to whether or not this project has intended discrimination?
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, I can categorically deny that there is any form of discrimination. In the beginning of my answer, I said that His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: … has devoted part of his earnings to meeting this need among the most vulnerable members of our society by distributing exercise books. He has just started and yet to go round the country.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I would like to …
Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Lubinda: Garry for President!
Laughter
Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order, which is procedural. I am aware that you have always guided that points of order must be done contemporaneously but I am compelled to rise slightly late. We are aware that the hon. Member for Mazabuka …
Mr Lubinda: Is campaigning!
Mr Kampyongo: … has had a habit of issuing empty threats. He had even sworn before that if he was not on this side of this House at some point, …
Hon. UPND Members: Sworn!
Laughter
Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, he swore at some point that …
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my left.
Mrs Chonya: Go back to school.
Mr Kampyongo: … if he was not going to be on this side of the House, …
Interruptions
Hon. UPND Members: Mtendere University!
Mr Kampyongo: This is the queen’s language. I am actually very competent at it. It is sometimes permissible to make mistakes and we cannot shy away from that.
Mrs Chonya: Give him the books.
Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member had sometime back dared us that if he was not going to be on this side of the House, he would probably not be in this House. We are aware about that. Is the hon. Member in order to mischievously stand there and talk about Constitutional breaches, which he is alleging the President has made? The hon. Minister in the Vice-President’s Office has stated very categorical that, there is no law which has been broken by the mere distribution of these books. His Excellency the President comes from a poor background …
Laughter
Mr Kampyongo: … he knows how a child from a widowed family can feel to just receive an exercise book. In any case, these children are at primary school level. Even at the time the President Lungu will be re-elected, these children will still not be at the age of voting.
Hon. UPND Members: Question!
Mr Kampyongo: Is the hon. Member in order to come to this House and talk about their mischievous plan of whatever motion they want to bring, regarding the impeachment?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, are you done with your point of order?
Mr Kampyongo: I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.
Interruptions
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order on my right! The hon. Minister is raising a point of order on a question raised by the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central way after the minister responsible has responded to it.
Mr Michelo: She is giving us raw answers.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, your point of order cannot be sustained …
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: … because I allowed the question and the hon. Minister in the Office of the Vice-President adequately dealt with it. I am very sure that the minister will deal with the follow up supplementary questions adequately. I am sure she does not need your help. The hon. Member for Kafue will continue with her question.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Chonya: Madam Speaker, is the generous donor, who happens to be the PF President, in a position to donate salaries to the council workers in Kafue who have not been paid for over three months now …
Laughter
Mrs Chonya: … and, maybe, to the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) workers? As I was coming to Parliament, I heard your Committee sympathising with the ZNBC workers, who have not yet been paid. Therefore, is the donor in a position to donate salaries in case he has access to some infinite financial resources?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Question 219 concerns school books and not council workers’ salaries.
Interruptions
Mr Kufakwandi: rose.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order in the House! Hon. Member for Sesheke, please resume your seat.
Interruptions
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order in the House! We can now proceed.
Mr Kufakwandi (Sesheke): Madam Speaker, since the books are being distributed in public institutions and the donor, is a public servant. Therefore, is it not right for the Auditor-General to not only audit the distribution of books, but to also identify the source of the money?
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, the Auditor-General is mandated to audit public account books and not the President’s personal earnings.
Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, the President is meeting the students all over the country. Where else can he distribute the books except in schools?
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Madam Speaker, I believe the President intervened because there must have been an assessment that the Ministry of General Education or the Government was not able to meet the required number of books. Is the hon. Minister able to give us the required quantities of books so that other citizens or leaders of political parties, who may be in a position to donate, can know?
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, first of all, the initiative is not intended to provide data to Opposition members, but it is intended to benefit the school children.
Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: I think the hon. Member for Mumbwa may realise that the President is not just involved in the distribution of books, but he also has other personal projects. He looks after the marketeers and he initiated the Presidential Empowerment Initiative Fund. He does this everywhere in the country, wherever he wishes to go. It is equally the same initiative with the books.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, was a needs assessment done? If so, what is the shortfall so that others can also donate?
Hon. UPND Members: Yes!
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, I did say that the exercise was not intended to provide data. It is a personal project; I am not privy to that information.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr A. B. Malama (Nchelenge): Madam Speaker, it seems His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu’s excellent gesture …
Mr Chabi: Question!
Mr A. B. Malama: … has attracted overwhelming support from both your left and right.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr A. B. Malama: Madam Speaker, in this regard, when will Nchelenge and, indeed, Mazabuka receive their own load of the books?
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, the books are readily available at the secretariat. They can be picked up at anytime.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that other than the President being involved in the distribution of exercise books, he is also involved in other projects. In view of the initiative which supports the vulnerable and poor people, may I find out whether the President will extend an arm to buy some iron sheets for a school in Kafwamp in the North-Western Province, where the pupils learn from outside during the rainy season?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will not answer that question …
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: … because the one on the Floor is specific to school books.
Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, …
Ms Katuta: On a point of order, Madam!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Ms Katuta: Madam Speaker, I apologyise to the hon. Member of Parliament for Mitete for disturbing his flow of thought. Is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting in order to keep quiet whilst the workers at the ZNBC have not been paid their salaries for almost two months?
Mrs Chonya: Hear, hear!
Ms Katuta: I seek your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Chienge is encouraged to ask a question under Standing Order Number 31. It will require an urgent answer and the hon. Minister will respond within forty-eight hours. File in your question.
Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, some of the recipients of the books are very happy. However, they would like to know whether His Excellency the President Mr Lungu was born at the Ndola General Hospital …
Laughter
Mr Mutelo: … or the Kitwe General Hospital or somewhere along the boundaries of Malawi?
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Let us try with the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central, maybe, he has a relevant question.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Hammer, hammer!
Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, the print on the cover of the book is more expensive than the …
Ms Tambatamba: Inside!
Mr Kamboni: … inside of the exercise book.
Ms Tambatamba: Hear, hear! Poor quality!
Mr Kamboni: My question is, looking at the financial resources hardship the country is going through everywhere, surely, was this printing in colour a prudent way of spending money if not campaigning?
Interruptions
Mr Kamboni: We are talking about the President of the country here spending money …
Mr Mukumbuta: Not an individual!
Mr Kamboni: … and not an individual. If he is spending money on the whole country, I am asking if this is a prudent way of spending money.
Interruptions
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, I would say yes, it is very prudent to spend your own earnings on an act of charity.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa (Choma): Madam Speaker, the PS for the Central Province was shown on television and he is on record, when handing over these books in Shibuyunji. He was emphasising to parents of the recipients of these books that in 2021, they should vote for the President Edgar Lungu and not Mr Hakainde Hichilema. How can the hon. Minister in the Vice-President’s Office reconcile this statement to what she is saying here that this is not a political move or gimmick?
Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, I am not aware of that activity, so I cannot comment on it.
I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sing’ombe: Americano!
Ms Kasune (Keembe): Madam Speaker, given the fact that the hon. Minister has explained that this is not a political move. From her explanation, I just wonder whether the children will be able to cover these books. It has been brought to our attention that in some cases, the children were not even allowed to cover the books. Hence, uproar to thinking this is a political campaign tool.
Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, I would also like to find out from the hon. Member of Parliament for Keembe, whether truly the children are affected by this because for them, it is just a book to write in. We do cover our books anyway. They are at liberty to do so, if they so wish.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Speaker, I am sure the hon. Minister in the Office of the Vice-President is aware that this project is unprecedented in the history of Zambia …
Ms Chonya: Hear, hear!
Mr Lufuma: … and people are attributing it to political desperation.
Mrs Chonya: Hear, hear!
Mr Lufuma: The PF Members are saying they want to win the 2021 elections, come what may.
Hon. Government Members: Question!
Mr Ngulube: You are not aware?
Mr Lufuma: Oh, you are agreeing. Does that mean those books are political then?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!
Firstly, avoid having dialogue and secondly, try to restrain yourself from pointing at other Members.
Please, you may continue.
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Ask your question.
Mr Belemu: Point at them!
Laughter
Mr Lufuma: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, as I said, this project is unprecedented in the history of Zambia and the people are saying it is an act of desperation. The PF wants to win, come what may. That is what the people are saying.
Hon. Opposition Member: Shame, shame!
Mr Lufuma: The hon. Minister has been saying that, and I have said it several times that these books are available at the PF Secretariat in great quantities. The Opposition Members of Parliament can go and be availed the same books for distribution in their areas. Knowing her party, which is known for violence, how am I going to be assured that I will not be leeched when I go to their secretariat offices?
Laughter
Ms Chalikosa: Madam Speaker, going by the time that has been spent on this question, one would wonder who is desperate, whether it is the people on the right or left of the Madam Speaker.
Laughter
Ms Chalikosa: We can assure the hon. Member that he is very safe.
Mr Mwiimbu: Aah!
Ms Chalikosa: However, when the President happens to visit the hon. Member’s constituency, he will donate the books. Hence, he need not come to the secretariat.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
SIHOLE SECONDARY SCHOOL IN KALABO
220. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of General Education:
- whether the Government was aware that Sihole Secondary School in Kalabo Constituency Parliamentary Constituency had not been designated as a an examination centre for the 2018 final examination due to lack of science laboratory;
- whether the Government would rectify this anomaly to enable the school to be an examination centre; and
- if so, what measures had been taken to facilitate the writing of the 2018 final examinations at the School since the nearest examination is 60 kilometres away.
The Minister of General Education (Mr Mabumba): Madam Speaker, the Government is aware that Sihole Secondary School has not been conferred with examinations centre status for the 2018 Grade 12 final examinations. The application for the examination centre status was submitted to the Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ). However, it did not go through due to lack of operational laboratories. As you may be aware, for a school to be awarded Grade 12 examination centre status, such a school should have operational laboratories to be used for practical examinations. Therefore, this made Sihole Secondary School ineligible to gain the centre status.
Madam Speaker, in responding to this question, it is important that the House take note that Sihole Secondary School is one of the upgraded schools that received science equipment and apparatus in 2017. Apart from that, a 1 x 3 classroom block had earlier been built, and in addition to a 1 x 2 laboratory block. The school is currently in the process of procuring laboratory stools. Once this is completed, the school will be given due consideration for examination centre status. In short, I wish to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central, Hon. Miyutu and, the House that the Government is rectifying the anomaly. The school will have a center status in 2019.
At Grade 9, Sihole Secondary School maintains an examination centre and candidates at this level will write their examinations at the same school. The sixty-two learners in examination classes at Grade 12 level have been registered to write at Kalabo Boarding Secondary School. The management of Sihole Secondary has made an arrangement with their colleagues at Kalabo Boarding Secondary School to have the learners be accommodated at the school during the examination period.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I do not know how the hon. Minister is feeling when giving positive responses to my questions.
Madam, the same Government upgraded Sihole Secondary School. It is the same Government, which is in charge of the ECZ. After upgrading Sihole Secondary School, the same Government failed to provide the necessary requisites for the school to be eligible to attain examination centre status. Is the hon. Minister aware that a 60 km walk for the school going Children is not wealth in 2018, especially fifty-four years after independence? Is the hon. Minister not aware that the children should not cover 60 km in order for them to write examinations?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the hon. Member …
Mr Miyutu: Is the hon. Minister aware that the children are suffering for nothing?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: is the hon. Member for Kalabo Central shedding tears?
Mr Miyutu: No, I am not shedding tears. However, I am just asking the hon. Minister if she is aware that the Government is punishing the children who have not committed any offence.
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, the children were not there. They do not deserve the punishment they are going through.
Interruptions
Mr Miyutu: shedding tears
The children cover 60 km to go and write examinations at the Boma using the sand terrain, the environment and the teachers, they are not familiar with.
Interruptions
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Madam.
Interruptions
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!
I will not allow that point of order. Please resume your seat, hon. Member for Kabwe Central. I will allow a few seconds to the hon. Member for Kalabo Central to compose himself. Would you like to conclude your question?
Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you, but I think I have finished.
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, it is regrettable that my colleague has showed too much emotion, but his concerns are the concern of the hon. Minister of General Education. Nevertheless, to put matters into context, Sihole Secondary School was not there at all. The sixty-two children, who are in Grade 12 and whom we are talking about now would not have been there or they would have been in a boarding school in Kalabo. Therefore, my colleague should appreciate that notwithstanding the challenges at the school, the ministry’s transformation agenda of increasing access at the secondary school, his constituency has been a beneficiary.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mabumba: Madam Speaker, the Government recognises that if Sihole Secondary School was not there, the sixty-two children would have probably been in the streets. Therefore, our colleagues on the other side, should recongnise the Government’s efforts on a gradual process. In my response to part (c) of the question, the Government has committed itself and we would like to assure him and the people of Kalabo in particular that these particular projects started in 2014. The fact that some of us have gone back to the Ministry of General Education, the hon. Member should get the assurance from the deepest of my heart that, his children are not going to walk 60 km if at all they are going to walk in 2019.
Madam Speaker, that is my assurance. We will make everything in order to ensure that we address that particular challenge.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Madam Speaker, …
Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Ngulube: Madam, I would like to thank you for according me an opportunity to raise a point of order.
Mr Katuta: But suit iyo taiweme!
Mr Ngulube: I would like to thank you, but I am looking handsome and young.
Madam Speaker, there is a growing concern amongst the pensioners and the people of Zambia, who actually contribute to pensions funds in the sense that the Government is not taking care of their interests.
Madam, for about two years now, there have been complaints arising from the fact that one pension trust called ‘Suturnia Regna Pension’ has been violating the Pension and Insurance Act to the extent that the pensioners’ funds are now in abeyance. The people who have contributed regularly to the pensions fund do not know the status of their funds. Suffice to say that some people have contributed to the same fund for more than twenty years.
Madam, the former hon. Minister of Finance, Hon. Mutati, announced to the House and the nation at large that a committee was constituted to investigate the veracity of allegation of impropriety as well as the misapplication of the funds. In today’s, Daily Nation Newspaper, it is quoted that K70 million was lost. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Finance, whether she is in order not to tell the nation the status of the Pension fund called the ‘Suturnia Regna Pension Fund.’
Madam Speaker, we have been told and we have heard from several sources that Suturnia Regan Pension Fund is a conduit and because of the purported losses some of the contributors to the fund might walk away empty handed or bear foot. Is the hon. Minister of Finance in order not to notify the nation what the status of this is? I do not want to use unparliamentary word. I will use the word, which is softer and say the ‘conduit’ of an alleged misappropriation of ‘hard- earned pensioners’ contributions.
I need your serious ruling.
Madam, may I be allowed to lay the paper, Vol. No. 4, Issue 1919 on the Table.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Are you quoting anything in that newspaper?
Mr Ngulube: Madam Speaker, on the front page of the Daily Nations Newspaper says:
“Saturnia Pension in K70 million loss”
Madam, this information is on the front page. For the benefit of those who belong to some institution where the money is believed to be going, I want to quote.
“Over K70 million in share value has been lost by Suturnia Regna Pension contributors in an ill-advised investment bulldozed by fund managers who ignored the advice of authorised fund, who opposed the venture.”
Further, inside the article, it states that:
“These were the Trustees dropped in a controversial and contested Annual general meeting (AGM) authorised by the captured and compromised Pensions and Insurance Authority (PIA), which is a Government institution.”
Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Finance whether it is true the PIA has been captured, compromised or should the Government allow the pensioners to lose their hard-earned pensions in such a scam?
I need your ruling.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Ngulube: laid the paper on the Table.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Obviously, the hon. Member for Kabwe Central has been following matters concerning the Saturnia Regna Pension Fund. He is even aware that a committee was constituted and that the hon. Minister of Finance has in the past made a statement regarding to this particular pension fund.
The hon. Minister of Finance sits in this House together with the hon. Member for Kabwe Central. Therefore, the hon. Member for Kabwe Central is in a privileged position to simply file in a question for urgent answer and the hon. Minister will give him the current status of this pension fund and what the Government’s position is. The ruling of the Chair is that the hon. Member for Kabwe Central should file in a question. The hon. Minister of Finance, who is here, will be able to respond accordingly.
Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, Sihole Secondary School …
Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. However, as I allow the point of order by the Leader of the Opposition, I would like to counsel hon. Members that we have a lot of business today and we must conclude before we adjourn.
Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise a very important point of order on a matter that affects the lives of so many Zambians who have worked for the Government. The former public workers expected to be paid by the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), which is the public pension fund, but these workers have not been paid todate.
Laughter
Mr Mwiimbu: As of last week, hoards of Zambians have been camping at the hon. Minister of Finance’s office demanding that they must be paid. They are alleging that their funds have been diverted and this is the money that is being used by the Patriotic Front (PF) to fund its campaigns to print books and buy bicycles that are being distributed.
Madam Speaker, is the Government in order not to pay the former Government workers and others who have toiled for this country for so many years? Some have even died and have left their children destitute and the Government is not caring. Is the Government in order not to look after the plight of the Zambians who have worked for it for a long time?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Likewise, the Leader of the Opposition will file a question so that as the hon. Minister of Finance is responding to the point of order on the Saturnia Regna Pension Fund, she can also deal with the question that the Leader of the Opposition will raise concerning the public sector pension funds. That is my ruling.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambita: Madam Speaker, I just want to ask the hon. Minister of General Education a quick question. Sihole Secondary School is one of the many secondary schools in the country that have suffered the setback of not having a science laboratory and hence being denied the opportunity of being an examination centre. I am alive to the fact that the Government has actually transformed many schools into what are called combined schools from basic schools to secondary schools and the like. Quite a number of these schools are in the same state as Sihole Secondary School. Does the Government have a clear plan of upgrading these schools into schools that will be able to give the services of an examination centre to pupils?
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, yes, Sihole Secondary School is among the 220 primary schools that were upgraded as part of the programme for increasing access to secondary school education. Our plan was that this particular project was going to be phased. Phase 1 begun with staff houses and some classroom blocks and phase 2 should have been the construction of laboratories.
Madam Speaker, immediately I was appointed to my current portfolio, I indicated to this august House in answering some questions and I will repeat my statement. Before the House rises or goes on recess this month, I will be able to come with a ministerial statement which we are preparing. Given the number of schools that are involved, which is a total of 220, it is too large to get information within a very short period of time. It is at that particular moment that much of the details on the 220 primary schools that were upgraded in 2014 would be given.
Madam Speaker, however, the consolation to my colleagues is that, first of all, the upgraded schools have helped to increase access to secondary school education. Secondly, if you look at some of these schools which were upgraded despite the deficiencies in infrastructure, they are performing much better in terms of learners’ results compared to the conventional secondary schools. My colleagues should note that this is an important project. I think working together with the hon. Members; we should be able to go around some of the challenges to do with laboratories that these schools are facing.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, the predicament of Sihole Secondary School is similar to other schools, especially those in rural areas like Kanchibiya. What is the recommended number of kilometres for children to walk from their school to the examination centre, in a case that, their school does not have science laboratories.
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, in terms of the distance, I cannot confirm, but what I know is that schools like Sihole Secondary School need to make arrangements for pupils to write their examinations elsewhere. Unfortunately, I have to draw a comparative from my own constituency. The school management at one of the schools that we have upgraded made transport arrangements to take pupils to the nearest examination centre in order for them to write their examinations. It is really largely up to the management of a particular school to make arrangements to avoid the pupils from walking long distances. I am sure some of our colleagues who are honest enough should be able to admit that many schools in their constituencies are making those arrangements.
Madam Speaker, on the other hand, it is not fair to come and maybe portray a very bad situation at schools. Sihole for instance, even if I was to go there with my colleague, we would find that there is an arrangement put in place for children to go and write their examinations at Kalabo Secondary School. Nonetheless, our commitment is that we will deal with the infrastructure challenges that schools are facing.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Madam Speaker, the situation at Sihole Secondary School in Kalabo and many other secondary schools countrywide is critical. Why is the Government taking long to designate examination centres at schools of this nature to avoid children from walking long distances?
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, allow me to repeat myself. In answering this question, I have stated and I want to reaffirm and commit myself and my team in the ministry that we will resolve these particular issues, as we work together with the ECZ. As we go into the 2019 examination sessions, I expect that many of these challenges are going to be resolved.
For example, we are making mobile laboratories with a new design, which we expect to distribute to some of the schools that do not have permanent laboratories. On that premise, once we sit down with the ECZ, we are going to flex the rules pertaining to laboratories in various schools. With that said, I reiterate these challenges are going to be resolved and in 2019, we shall have very minimal challenges to do with examination centre numbers.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, at one time on this Floor, it was announced that mobile laboratories would be provided to schools. However, that has not happened. Whose responsibility is it to construct laboratories in schools? Is it the schools or the Ministry of General Education? Why should schools be applying to the ministry to get mobile laboratories? Does the hon. Minister have a deliberate policy to go round schools to assess which schools urgently need laboratories like his colleague, the hon. Minister of Health, does?
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, Sihole Secondary School received a mobile laboratory. Many of the schools which have been upgraded to secondary schools have mobile laboratories. However, some of these schools were not given examination centre numbers. That is why I said: I will sit with my colleagues at the ECZ to flex the rules pertaining to the issuance of examination centre numbers.
As for a plan, yes, I have one. It is the responsibility of the ministry to provide laboratories. However, other stakeholders like hon. Members of Parliament can also do that using the Constituency Development Funds (CDF). For example, Hon. Muchima, through the council, can buy a small mobile laboratory for a school in his constituency or build one using the CDF.
I thank you, Madam.
Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, children have to walk 60 km from Sihole to Kalabo High School to write their examinations. They walk for two days in the sand to get there. By the time they reach, they are already too tired to even prepare for their examinations. There was a drought, this year in Kalabo, the children will therefore, be tired and hungry on their way to school, and because of that, their performance will be affected. Is the ministry considering providing food to these children when they arrive in Kalabo to write their examinations, in order to mitigate the suffering they are going to face?
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, the ministry will take up that issue with Sihole Secondary School and Kalabo Secondary School so that the arrangements for these children can be put in place, to make that happen.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West): Madam Speaker, how many laboratories are there in the country, particularly in the North-Western Province?
Interruptions
Madam First Deputy Speaker: If the hon. Minister is able to give a response, I will allow him to do that.
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I would have loved my colleague to come up with a formal question. However, I know that all the twenty-two schools that were upgraded in the North-Western Province were given mobile laboratories.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Kalabo Central got emotional when talking about the absence of a laboratory at Sihole Secondary School. He lamented that the mobile laboratory is not there. The hon. Member may end up labelling the hon. Minister a name which is not so pleasant on the Floor of the House. Would it not be honourable for the hon. Minister to go back to the ministry to check the correct information? Otherwise, Chapter 12 of the Laws of Zambia will visit him.
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, in my answer to part (b) of this question, I said: Sihole Secondary School is one of the upgraded schools that received science equipment in 2017. I went to the National Science Centre which distributes mobile laboratories to check for this information and they confirmed that all the 220 primary schools that were upgraded received these laboratories. However, I will come with a ministerial statement to provide more information on this matter before the House goes on recess.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Speaker, the scenario that has been depicted by the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central is very common across the country. That is really unfortunate.
What worries me is the repercussion of this state of affairs to the girl child. Currently, the rate of teenage pregnancy is very high in Zambia. It stands at 31 per cent. Putting schools and the examination centres as near to communities as possible is one factor that can help reduce this problem. How does the Ministry of General Education hope to assist in lowering the rate of teenage pregnancies? Zambia has committed itself to lowering the rate of teenage pregnancies.
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, the schools that have been upgraded are within the communities where our children live. For example, before Sihole Secondary School was upgraded to a secondary school, children in Sihole used to go to boarding schools in Kalabo. However, the PF Government has committed itself to improving access to education. It has upgraded all the secondary schools I have mentioned. I can give a lot of examples about this. Another example, at one time, Kenneth Kaunda Primary School in Muchinga Province had 1,400 students. However, as a result of the programme to upgrade primary schools to secondary schools, this school now has only about 700 pupils. This means that the other pupils have gone to schools in their own villages, which have been upgraded. This is a very functional programme and with the support of our colleagues, it will be a success. I have noted the concerns of my colleagues; they will be resolved before the 2019 examination session.
I thank you, Madam.
Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, I pity the hon. Minister because he is being given wrong information. This morning, I was at the National Science Centre at Kabulonga Boys Secondary School, where I met the officials responsible for the mobile laboratories. The Western Province received thirty four units. Sihole Secondary School is not among the schools to benefit from those mobile laboratories. Zambia only has one Western Province, and that province does not constitute Sihole Secondary School. Which Sihole Secondary School is the hon. Minister talking about? As far as the Western Province is concerned, Sihole has not received the mobile laboratory which the Government officials have indicated. Therefore, the hon. Minister should apologise to the people of Sihole for having uttered that false statement here.
Madam Speaker, finally, the hon. Minister has stuck to his word that his ministry will only assist pupils with logistics. However, he has insisted that the pupils will sit for their examinations at Kalabo Secondary School, which is located 60 km away from Sihole. Is that the position of the hon. Minister?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, the most important question is whether or not you are sure that Sihole received a mobile laboratory. If you are not sure, you can always come back to the House with the correct information.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I thank you. This is why I said the ministerial statement will be issued at a later stage to provide that information.
I thank you, Madam.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, is it possible that you do not have the correct information concerning this particular school?
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, my answer remains the same; a ministerial statement will be brought to this House. This is why, ...
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Minister, ...
Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, what do my colleagues expect me to say when I have said that the ministerial statement is what will provide a platform of the status of all the schools that have been provided with mobile laboratories. What answer can I give other than what I have said? This is because, for example, ...
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Minister, please resume your seat.
Mr Mabumba resumed his seat.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kalabo Central Parliamentary Constituency insists that the school under discussion does not have a mobile laboratory as you suggested. Hon. Minister, it is possible that the information you have, ...
Mr Mabumba confers with Prof. Luo.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, I am trying to engage you.
Mr Mabumba turned to face the hon. Madam First Deputy Speaker.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is it possible that the information you have may not be in the correct position on the ground? I would like you, for the record, hon. Minister to restate whether or not you still believe, after what the hon. Member has said that Sihole Secondary School has a mobile laboratory.
Mr Mabumba: Madam S peaker, to put this matter to its logical conclusion, I would like to say that given the information that the hon. Member of Parliament has, it differs from what we have in the Ministry of General Education. This particular matter is going to be clarified when I issue a ministerial statement.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
C400 ROAD PROJECT IN NDOLA
221. Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development when the construction of roads under the C400 Project in Ndola District would commence.
The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Chitotela): Madam Speaker, the construction of roads under the Copperbelt 400 km Road Project (C400) in Ndola District will commence as soon as the financial arrangements for the 15 per cent advance payment, which is the Government of the Republic of Zambia counterpart funding, is finalised. The financing arrangement is expected to be concluded soon. Works will commence by the end of this rainy season.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Dr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, the C400 km Road Project in all the towns on the Copperbelt has not started because of this 15 per cent advance payment. It is not only the C400 Road Project which has not commenced. A lot of projects which are supposed to receive a counter funding of 15 per cent have also not commenced because the Government does not have money. What assurance is the hon. Minister giving concerning the kicking off of these projects? I ask this because every time the hon. Minister comes to this House, he attributes the failure by the Government to embark on these projects to lack of this 15 per cent counterpart funding. When is this story ever going to end?
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I want to assure the people on the Copperbelt Province, including Luanshya, and in particular Roan Parliamentary Constituency, where the hon. Member is from that this Government is committed to making sure that the counterpart funding for the C400 Road Project under China Hainan is concluded in the next three weeks. This Government has committed itself to making sure that this project takes off by the end of this rainy season. By the way, the contractor has already mobilised what is needed. Rest assured the Government is mobilising in the two towns on the Copperbelt Province. The contractor will be in Kitwe while the Government will be in Luanshya. This is because we want the people of Roan Parliamentary Constituency to have quality roads. That is why under the C400 Road Project, Luanshya has been allocated 65.9 km under China Hainan and further 60 km under AVIC International. Therefore, the people of Luanshya, including Roan Parliamentary Constituency will have 120 km of township roads done. Avic International has started working on the roads in Chingola while China Hainan will by April, this year, start working on the roads from Kitwe and Luanshya.
Madam Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, this C400 km Road Project is very interesting. Hon. Minister, as the Government considers Bwana Mkubwa and the rest of the Copperbelt, is it possible for the Government to extend this gesture to the North-Western Province, in particular Ikeleng’i Parliamentary Constituency? I say so because I have just been hearing about this project. Is this project going to be taken to the North-Western Province as well?
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Ikeleng’i Parliamentary Constituency, if I allow that question, we will have similar ones from your colleagues who will want to know if the Government will be going to the Northern and Western provinces and so on. We will not finish.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for assuring our people on the Copperbelt that the province is going to have quality roads before the end of the rainy season. I would like to find out if the Government has now resolved issues of funding for various township roads.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will relate that issue of funding to the C400 Road Project.
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the 15 per cent C400 Road Project funding challenge has been resolved. We had a meeting where everything regarding this project was concluded. That is why we have given ourselves about three weeks in which we expect the contractor to be on site in all the townships on the Copperbelt.
Madam Speaker, as I stated, the contractor has partially mobilised in Kitwe. After the rainy season, he will begin setting up another camp in Luanshya and then we will see the works under China Henan taking shape. We want the contractors to start from the south and the north of the Copperbelt and meet in the middle. China Henan will work on the; Kitwe, Luanshya, Ndola, Masaiti and Mpongwe Roads. AVIC will work on the Chingola and Mufulira Roads.
Madam Speaker, in total we are working on 900 km of township roads on the Copperbelt Province. The people of the Copperbelt must be rest assured that their township roads will not be the same after the implementation of this project.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker ...
Ms Chonya: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am not allowing anymore points of order. We are losing time.
Mr Mweetwa: Madam Speaker, when the issue of roads come up on the Floor of the House, it generates considerable interest given that many pronouncements have been made by the Government in respect to road infrastructure development and the funding thereof.
Madam Speaker, for instance, in 2012, there was a budgetary pronouncement that the Government were going to fund township roads in Choma, which they have failed to do to date. How different is the C400 Road Project funding that it should make us believe the Government when they have failed to deliver on what they have said before on the Floor of this House? What is unique about this funding? The projects that have been promised before on the floor of this House have failed.
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, this is a Government that delivers. Since independence, this is the first time that the people of Zambia are seeing massive infrastructure development throughout the country.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitotela: That is why the people of the Copperbelt must be assured that we will do what we say we will do. We have concluded the financial agreement and we have asked the contractor to start mobilising. This shows that all the necessary administrative arrangements that we are dealing with are concluded and the people of the Copperbelt are assured that we do not just speak, but we act. Our work speaks for us.
Madam Speaker, for avoidance of doubt, under the C400 Road Project; Kitwe has been given 96.7 km, Ndola 65.7 km, Luanshya 65.9 km, Kalulushi 54.3 km, Mufulira 55.1 km, Chingola 39.9 km and Chililabombwe 29 km. In total, China Henan has 406 km.
Madam Speaker, under the project that is being implemented by AVIC International, which started on the northern side; Chingola has been given 53.9 km, Kitwe 64.4 km, Mufulira 41.9 km, Chambeshi/Kalulushi 60.9 km and Luanshya 51.7 km. The total of all the roads will be shared by the two contractors that are implementing the projects.
Madam Speaker, the contractor is on site and is already working in Chingola. That is why the people of the Copperbelt should trust in the leadership and the governance of the Patriotic Front (PF). We do not just make mere pronouncements, but we implement that which we promise our people.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, the C400 Road Project was launched almost at the same time as the Pave Zambia 2,000 Road Project. The equipments for the Pave Zambia 2,000 Road Project were bought about four years ago, but they have just been collecting dust on the Copperbelt. Would the Government allow the local authorities in Ndola and Kitwe to start using the equipment that the Government bought four years ago so that they can kick start the Pave Zambia 2,000 Road Project as we are waiting for the C400 Road Project? If this could be done, the youths of Ndola and Kitwe Townships were complaining yesterday, on Youth day that they do not have more money in their pockets. Can they have a chance to access decent jobs from the local authorities?
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the youth on the Copperbelt must be assured that the PF Government is a pro-poor Government. Some of the projects that we implement are of little economic value, but we believe that once we open up the area, our people will be able to create economic activities that will make that place come up. The C400 Road Project under China Henan will begin in Kitwe and Luanshya while AVIC International in Chingola has already started. Once we are done with those areas, we will go to Mufulira. We are creating opportunities for our youth to get employed.
Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member visited Bwana Mkubwa in Ndola, he would see that we have contractors in Ndola who are paving some roads using that equipment. We have allocated one paving machine per province. Once the project is completed, we will see if there will be need to move the paving equipment from Ndola to Kitwe. Our intention is to let our youth participate fully in the paving programme so that we can create employment under the labour intensive programme.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Madam Speaker, I observe that from the Lusaka 400 (L400) Road Project Phase 1, Lusaka looks like a completely different city. As soon as the C400 Road Project is implemented, I am sure that the Copperbelt will look different especially since there is a modern international airport being constructed there. What is the message to those that continue to thrive on the negatives of the performance of the Government and the party?
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, empty tins make the most noise.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitotela: We are not distracted. If one has nothing to give the people they will continue making noise. The Government has a lot to look at and it has no time for noise making. We are focused on implementing the Government programmes for the good of the Zambian people, who voted for us.
I thank you, Madam Speaker,
Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Speaker, I want to commend the hon. Minister who is answering very well on the follow up questions concerning Ndola. I would like to also commend him for his kindness that he went out of his way to give us answers and an update for the Copperbelt in general although the question was to do with Ndola. I wanted to find out from the hon. Minister what he has to say concerning the L400 Road Project status and Kafue, in particular, where we have been crying for only 10 Km of road works. This has been outstanding for so many years. The projects that the hon. Minister has talked about on the Copperbelt are new undertakings. These 10 Km of road works in Kafue have been outstanding since 2011. The people of Kafue are crying. In fact, I understand that the project was originally for 50 km, whatever happened to the 40 Km, we do not know? All we have been crying for is the 10 Km stretch where the hon. Minister had already made an assurance. I just want to find out how he can assure the people of Kafue that his Government will stick to the assurances made that these 10 Km are coming to Kafue.
Ms Mwape: Kavotedwe!
Madam First Deputy Speaker: That question is unrelated. I urge the hon. Member for Kafue to also file in a question so that she can get a detailed response.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development has always insisted that the Patriotic Front Government has implemented unprecedented road infrastructure development since independence. That is what he claims. However, he should also note that it is also unprecedented debt that the PF has acquired. The debt stock right now, give or take, stands at US$12.5 billion.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Lufuma: This is a pity because nothing much has been done.
Hon. Government Members: Question!
Mr Lufuma: My question is, with this unprecedented debt that the PF has acquired and that since 2012, we have been talking about C400 Road Project which the Government has not finished, where has the Government used all this money on? If they have not finished the C400 Road Project up to now and are struggling with 15 per cent counterpart funding.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, when you want to politic you even misdirect yourself and start mentioning figures that may not relate to what is of great importance and concern to the Zambians. When other people stand up and say that they are economists, one wonders and says …
Interruptions
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, answer the question.
Mr Chitotela: That is the question I am dealing with.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Yes, let us not debate each other. You are aware of that hon. Minister.
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, for the Zambian economy to see unprecedented economic activity, we need to build infrastructure because infrastructure is a precursor to any business to take place. For the economy of the country, to grow we need to build infrastructure. We have been building to prepare the economy for takeoff.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitotela: when we are gone, our children will come and say we elected leaders who knew what they were doing. This is the aim of the PF Government.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitotela: If what we are doing today was done fifty years ago, we would have been attracting manufacturing industries to create employment for our people. There are basic things that you need to put in place for you to attract sound and sustainable investment in the nation. The C400 Road Project is part of the project that we believe as the PF Government, that once we implement it, it will attract investment. The cost of doing business on the Copperbelt will go down due to a fewer tires and wear of vehicles for the people on the Copperbelt who will serve in these industries will drop. Hence, the movement and ease of doing business by the people of the Copperbelt will improve. Taking a pregnant mother, her sister and the baby to Roan General Hospital will be easier because the roads would have been done to specific standards that will be made easy for the people to move. We will implement the C400 Road Project. We are targeting to finish the project by the end of 2020. We want when we stand up to be able to tell the people of the Copperbelt that we promised and this is what we have done.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Madam Speaker, the general question allover Africa is that these roads being constructed by Chinese companies are not durable. They have short life span. A very good example for us here is the Mumbwa Road stretch from the Lubumbashi Traffic Lights …
Mr Nkombo: Lumumba.
Prof. Lungwangwa: Lumumba Road junction at the traffic lights going all the way to about 4 Km which was constructed about two to three years ago. When you drive on that stretch of the road, there are potholes that are now very clear in sight. The general outcry is that these roads built by Chinese companies are not durable. Can the hon. Minister give us the inbuilt assurance of the sustainable durability criteria of the C400 Roads that they are constructing on the Copperbelt?
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I want to address the concerns by Prof. Lungwangwa that this Government takes infrastructure development very seriously. That is why when we are awarding contracts, we have learnt from previous mistakes made by other successive governments, who were implementing road construction projects. This is why you cannot construct Lumumba Road under the technical specifications of chip and spray. Then after two years you will go back to work on the same stretch of the road. The township roads we are building on the Copperbelt are under hot asphalt road material. These are roads that are able to take on the high traffic volume so that we can sustain the life span of these roads. The roads are designed to last twenty years. We are giving the contractor one year defect liability period to make sure that after the road has been handed over to the Government, the contractor will be able to take charge of the road for a period of one year. These roads are coming with the drainage system so that we do not allow water to collect on the road because that will begin to weaken the material that is used for the construction of the road.
After we have implemented the project, Madam Speaker, I have directed the ministry under the Road Development Agency (RDA) that we shall advertise and have contractors maybe for a period of ten years who will be responsible for the day to day maintenance of these roads. Wherever we observe a pothole we go and work on that portion of the road. We should not allow a situation to get worse and then start attending to the potholes. The difference then and now is that we are giving Chinese contractors, who are working in Zambia specific specifications and asking them to adhere to the specifications. I have seen roads that were done under formula one project under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government.
How can we do a chip and spray on a road that has a high volume of traffic? If we do that, that road will be completely gone in two years time. Cheap is expensive and we will not go for cheap materials to show the Zambian people that we have done the road, which will be ripped off in two years time. Therefore, we are designing the roads according to the volume of traffic.
Madam Speaker, we know that the Copperbelt has a high volume of traffic and that is why on the 406 km, we are spending US$492 million. This is because we want to do a road of high standard which will stand a test of time. We want the people of Zambia to be happy with the works that we will do.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, in responding to the question that was raised by the Member of Parliament for Chimwemwe, who lamented that, this company …
Mr Chitotela: interjected.
Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I need your protection. This neighbour is now telling me that I am politicking even before I say what I want to say. Madam Speaker, I need your help.
Madam First Deputy Speaker: You have my protection. The hon. Minister will simply listen to the question.
Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, in responding to my colleague, who lamented that for four years, 365 days, ….
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, may you address the Chair?
Mr Nkombo: … equipment has been stationed at some place which he mentioned. The President of the Republic of Zambia, in one of his addresses here and addressing the issue of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) bailout programme as well as the indebtedness, which my colleague raised, indicated that there shall be no completion of any project that has not reached 90 per cent of its completion. If machinery has been parked for four years, how sure is the hon. Minister that he is going to do anything about it? If the machinery has been parked since it went there, it means there is zero per cent that has happened, just as the case is in the C400 Road Project for township roads in Mazabuka.
Madam Speaker, this Minister, under this same Government started working on a 22 km stretch of the road. I can run for 22 km in thirty minutes. They have not even put a single ounce of bitumen. Two rainy seasons have come and have washed away everything that China Jiangxi Corporation did and even disbanded. How much comfort can we get from a colleague who speaks with a straight face but does the exact opposite?
Laughter
Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, can you give assurances?
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I want to state very clearly that this Government is committed to making sure it fully implements that which it promises the people of the Copperbelt. I think the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central mixed up the issue of the paving equipment, which is used for molding paving blocks to the one which is used for surfacing the bitumen. The equipment which the hon. Member of Parliament for Chimwemwe was referring to as being bought four years ago are molding machines which are used for making paving blocks.
Madam Speaker, right now, we are implementing that project. In Ndola, we have two points where we have a contractor who is paving roads. With regards to paving with bitumen, the contractor mobilised last year in November. We have a loan under the National Council for Construction (NCC) which does not allow contractors in the construction sector to implement projects during the rainy season. All contractors demobilised in order to wait for the rainy season to come to an end. After the rainy season, in the next three to four weeks, the contractors, including China Henan International Corporation, who is working on the C400 Road Project, will be going back to commence the works.
Madam Speaker, I want the hon. Member to understand that I do not only speak with a straight face but also, with a straight heart. I believe in what I say. If we cannot do it, we will make sure that we do not excite the people of the Copperbelt.
Madam Speaker, let me talk about issues of 80 per cent completion of projects. We have projects that have been running for a long time. We started with about 2,400 projects across the country. We then thought that we could not spread resources everywhere because we may not be able to achieve what we want for the people of Zambia to benefit. We thought of identifying those that are above 80 per cent so that within the period of six months, they will be completed. This will benefit our people.
Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President stated that we have special projects that we will be able to begin implementing, which we feel are of high economic returns and will have positive bearings on the livelihoods of the Zambian people. That is why His Excellency the President also went further by appointing me as a Chairperson of the Task Force on the Council of Ministers for the implementation of projects that are above 80 per cent. I know where we are. We should be able to finish soon. I want to restrict myself to the C400 Road Project and would like to mention that we have concluded the 15 per cent financial agreement. The contractor is very satisfied and that is why he has mobilised. After the rainy season, he will start working.
Madam Speaker, we believe in telling the people what we can do for them because it is by our words and actions that we will be judged. I know that there are hon. Members who would want to politic and I do not want to be among them. I want to be amongst those who are delivering to the Zambian people, who have given us the mandate to serve. We understand that we have a dispensatory authority. The Zambian people have deposited their confidence in us. We do not need to disappoint them. We need to deliver and give them that which they expect. I believe that if someone wants to invest his money in the bank, he must first of all look at which banks will safeguard his interests. That is why on 11th August, 2016, the Zambian people assessed all of us and only picked the President Edgar Chagwa Lungu as the President of the Republic of Zambia.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speakerm, that will be done without fail. Come 2021, we want the confidence that we have put in the people to grow. We want people to continue depositing their confidence in His Excellency the President Lungu.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mulenga (Ndola Central): Madam Speaker, indeed, it is true that good road network reduces the transport, production and commodity costs. Could the hon. Minister be kind enough to indicate to the people of Ndola District the duration of the project?
Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the project will run up to 2020.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
NGABWE DISTRICT ELECTRIFICATION
222. Mr Chiyalika (Lufubu) asked the Minister of Energy when Ngabwe District would be electrified.
The Minister of Energy (Mr Nkhuwa): Madam Speaker, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) conducted feasibility studies to the electrification of Ngabwe District in 2017. Based on the Study, the cost of connecting Ngabwe District to the National Grid at 33 kV of overhead line is estimated at K16 million. The REA plans to commence this project next year once funds are made available.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mr Chiyalika: Madam Speaker, the last plan of action that we shared with the previous Minister under this ministry …
Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.
[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
Mr Chiyalika: Mr Speaker, the project of connecting Ngabwe District to the national grid was actually supposed to take place in 2018, but I am surprised that it will be done in 2019. Why has it been shifted to 2019?
Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, due to lack of resources, we had to move the project to 2019. However, we are very mindful that Ngabwe is a new district. Therefore, we will try by all means to electrify it in 2019.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, as you may be aware, Ngabwe is a new district and it is located in the heart of this country. No wonder one of the hon. Ministers in this House was contemplating turning it into the capital city of this country because of its location and resources. Could the hon. Minister assure the people of Ngabwe if the electrification project will definitely take place as he has mentioned?
Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, like I said, Ngabwe is a new district and we are giving it the utmost attention to make sure that it is electrified in 2019. The former hon. Minister of Energy seated next to me in his handover notes indicated that the Government would try and see if the Zambia Electricity and Supply Corporation (ZESCO) can in the interim do something. However, this position will be confirmed at a later stage and I will engage the hon. Members on this issue.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I am glad to hear that the Government is taking very serious steps to electrify Ngabwe District. However, does it have any plan of electrifying other new districts, which were declared as districts earlier than Ngabwe? I have in mind Ikeleng’i and Kalumbila which have not been connected to the national grid.
Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, we are definitely thinking in those lines and we have a plan. Like I said, I will come and give an extensive explanation through a ministerial statement on how we will go about electrifying some of the areas that are pending.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister and the various questions that have been raised on the Floor of this House pertaining to the electrification of townships, chiefdoms and other areas, what has happened to the well received Japan International Co-operation Agency (JICA) Development Plan concerning the electrification of Zambia as a whole?
Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, the cost of the project was US$50 million. However, only US$10 million is being released in a year and that has affected its operations.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
FIRST LEVEL HOSPITAL CONSTRUCTION IN LUKASHYA
223. Mr Mukonge (Lukashya) asked the Minister of Health:
- whether there were any plans to construct a first level hospital in Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency;
- if so, when the plans would be implemented; and
- if there were no such plans, why.
The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, yes, the Government has plans to construct a first level hospital in Lukashya. This has been included in the Ministry of Health Capital Investment Plan. It will commence in 2018.
Sir, part (c) of the question falls off because those plans are there.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mukonge: Mr Speaker, sorry, I did not get the hon. Minister’s answer.
Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, like I said, that plan is within the ministry’s operational plan for 2018.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
TEACHER TRANSFERS FROM KAPUTA
224. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of General Education:
- how many teachers were transferred from Kaputa District in 2016 and 2017;
- whether the transferred teachers continued to maintain their payroll numbers under Kaputa District; and
- when other teachers would be deployed to Kaputa District to replace the transferred ones.
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, forty-one in 2016 and thirty-nine in 2017 teachers were transferred, which gives us a total of ninety teachers.
Sir, all the ninety teachers transferred in 2016 and 2017 are still on the payroll for Kaputa District.
Mr Speaker, the ministry deployed twenty-six teachers during the 2017 recruitment programme during the 2018 recruitment exercise, it will consider deploying more teachers to Kaputa.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, when I start talking about teacher transfers in my district, my heart bleeds. I am sure even when the hon. Minister talks about ninety teachers leaving a district like Kaputa, at the back of his mind, he would see that there is a skeleton of teachers left in that area. However, I would like to find out from him what he would want to do for the people of Chiengi and Nsama, but most especially for the people of Kaputa, since they cannot wait until he employs twenty-six teachers now and then the other twenty-seven teachers in the other year? What is it that he can do immediately in order to forestall these transfers? I am aware that there are a number of schools that have no teachers in Kaputa.
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, one of the commitments I made after I was appointed as Minister of General Education was to look at the policy of recruitment and transfers of teachers. However, I totally agree with my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaputa that if we transfer ninety teachers from a district in a span of two years, it has an impact on learner performance. Nevertheless, my commitment is that as we do the recruitment of teachers for 2018, this is the one area that we are going to look at and see how we can reform it.
I agree that this far, we have been doing recruitment of teachers as a ministry. I think there are challenges that have been associated with it including the transfers that have been made.
Mr Speaker, in going forward, may I assure the House that a number of things are going to change. For example, we are going to be using technological platforms to ensure that most of these elements are going to be defined in our systems. At the moment, we are working with Smart Zambia to ensure that most of our District Education Board Secretary’s (DEBs) offices are given information systems that shall capture details of the teachers.
In going forward, most of the things such as recruitments, confirmations and appointments are going to be done electronically. In that way, it is going to make it easier for the ministry to deal with a lot of challenges faced around the recruitment of teachers. This remains my commitment.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I wish to remind the hon. Minister that this matter is a serious matter and it needs pragmatic action. It is not something that should be trivialised as he is doing it. Is the hon. Minister aware that the whole country is affected just like Kaputa? Teachers just report at their appointment stations the first day and move away. To make matters worse, they move along with their positions. This is not a matter that he should wait for a computer to give him the statistics. What is he doing at the moment to address this situation? Where do these teachers go after reporting in Kaputa? Where do they go? In the first place, why does he even send them there?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Ikeleng’i has asked his question.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I recognise the emotions that are coming from Hon. Muchima, but my assurance notwithstanding the issues of information systems that we are yet to put in our various DEBs offices. I have committed myself that this year; there will be some changes on how this particular matter is going to be done.
Mr Speaker, that is the reason why I am saying: we are going to be a little bit hard in the manner in which transfers are done. When transfers are done on a swapping basis, it is much easier. However, what has been happening is that when teachers are transferred, for example, from Ikeleng’i, they will also be transferred with a Payroll Management Establishment Committee (PMEC) number. It means that this particular school in Ikeleng’i will be showing that it has a teacher; meanwhile that teacher has been transferred to another district.
This is why I am saying that the only way to go around this matter is to recognise the fact that this system has done its part and it has got some challenging elements which requires fine tuning. That fine tuning is going to be done before the recruitment of teachers for 2018 is completed.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, if somebody mentions Kaputa it is more like mentioning Nsama District because Nsama was born from Kaputa District and it is a new district. Some time back in August 2017, I brought a list of seventy-nine teachers to the hon. Minister who were transferred from Nsama District. They are getting salaries as if they are working there but are not there. I brought that list to ensure that the hon. Minister replaces the teachers there. However, to date, they have not yet been replaced. When is he going to post teachers there to curb the challenge of teacher/pupil ratio?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The question was on Kaputa, however, we will allow the Minister to give an answer on that one.
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, my answer still remains the same that we recognise the challenges the recruitment and employment of teachers has caused this far. This is why we are saying that we will do everything possible to ensure that beginning of 2018, we gradually start addressing some of the challenges associated with teacher recruitment, deployment as well as transfers.
In fact, for the comfort of my colleague, I wish to inform him that I will be meeting the Teaching Service Commission (TSC) on Thursday and one of the issues we are going to be discussing concerns those teachers that have been transferred with PMEC numbers from various districts and have been taken to other provinces and districts where they do not have these PMEC numbers. When I meet the TSC, whatever decision that is going to be made during our discussion, I should be able to share it with my colleagues in here.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister transferred ninety teachers from Kaputa, what was the total cost of moving these teachers around?
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, looking at the number of teachers that were transferred, one of the assumptions is that these are transfers that were initiated by the teachers themselves and to that extent, there were no costs. On the other assumption that these teachers were transferred on the initiation by the ministry, I do not have the cost at hand.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister may be aware, Kaputa District is quite remote. As a result, a number of teachers that are recruited from the Copperbelt and Lusaka provinces fail to stay in such a remote area. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether or not he is still encouraging the transfers on exchange basis, so that before a teacher moves out of that particular school, they must ensure that another teacher has arrived in that school. Does that particular practice still exist, so that the people of Kaputa can be able to have teachers going forward?
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, like I stated in my other answers to this particular question, it is encouraged by the Ministry of General Education for teachers to be transferred on the swapping basis. In that way, we do not create vacancies. However, what has been happening over time, for a variety of reasons, is where teachers are transferred, especially from the rural areas to the Copperbelt and Lusaka provinces. This is why deliberately I am meeting the TSC to come up with a clear direction on how we are going to deal with teachers that have been transferred, being paid in the rural districts, but working in Lusaka where they do not have PEMC numbers.
Sir, I do not want to go into details on this particular matter given its sensitivity, but it is a matter that I believe we can address working together with the TSC. It is either we ask these particular teachers to go back to Kaputa or allow us to recruit other teachers. However, that is the subject for me to discuss with the TSC.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!
Ms Mwashingwele (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I am sure the hon. Minister of General education is aware that the PMEC number is the employment number of the teacher. Practically, what is happening is that the ministry is depriving Kaputa of its teachers in order to service the urban areas. Could the hon. Minister be sincere because when the ministry takes away ninety teachers, the ministry is going to replace the ninety teachers because PMEC number is what is meant for Kaputa and not for Lusaka or the Copperbelt provinces?
Mr Kasonso: Hear, hear!
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, yes, I recognise that the teachers that the ministry redeploys, especially in our rural districts are meant to teach in those particular areas. Again, for different circumstances, the teachers can either be transferred by the ministry or they can request for transfers on their own. Let me reiterate that when the teachers are requesting for transfers, they are supposed to be on a swapping basis so that no particular school suffers in terms of teacher deficit.
Sir, like I said: what has happened is that the teachers are transferred to schools where the establishment does not allow having additional teachers. This is the challenge, which we want to resolve. Due to that practice, you would find that there are schools, which sometimes have an extra of twenty additional teachers beyond the required establishment. It is for this reason that the ministry would like to meet the TSC and see how we could deal with those particular issues of teachers who have to be transferred from the rural districts to urban areas and who are excess to the requirement in the schools they serve. In terms of my commitment, this part matter is going to be resolved. I know that it is challenging and sensitive, but it is a matter that we need to address. We need to swallow our pride because this particular area of transferring of teachers has its own challenges, which are impacting rural learners.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
DAM CONSTRUCTION IN MAGOYE
225. Mr Machila (Magoye) asked the Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environment Protection:
- when construction of the following dams in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency would commence:
- Namausha;
- Namaila;
- Nanchengwa;
- Chibengelele;
- Ngwezi ‘B’;
- Mbiya; and
- Namilindi; and
- what had caused the delay in commencing the construction works.
The Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection (Dr Wanchinga): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the Government through the Department of Water Resources Development under the Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environment Protection has been undertaking a programme for rehabilitation and construction of small dams across the country for the purposes of harnessing water to ensure availability of the water resources for social economic utilisation. This is an ongoing programme which has continued in 2018.
Sir, as part of this program, the ministry has undertaken reconnaissance survey for a number of sites across the country, which included sites under Magoye Parliamentary Constituency. As a result of the reconnaissance survey, only the following sites were found to be suitable as potential sites for the construction of dams and the two sites, which have been found to be suitable are Ngwezi ‘B’ and Nanchemgwa.
Mr Speaker, what this means is that the other remaining five sites, namely; Namausha, Namailla, Chibengelele, Mbiya and Namalindi do not meet the technical criteria for dam construction and no dam can be constructed at these sites.
Sir, there has been no delay because the process of identifying potential dam sites is an on-going exercise that covers the whole country. The two potential dam sites thus, Ngwezi ‘B’ and Nachengwa have been included on a waiting list of potential dam sites across the country that have been earmarked for full feasibility studies to be undertaken when resources are available .
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, when a question is asked, a period must be stated. If the period is not stated, then, the question has not been answered. For instance, if we say ‘when did Zambia get its independence?’ and the period is not indicated, such a person will get a zero.
Laughter
Mr Kamboni: Sir, I understand that the Government collects money over a period of time, it’s important to give the period when a question requires the timeframe.
The Second Deputy Speaker: What is your question hon. Member?
Mr Kamboni: Sir, the question is ‘when will the dams be constructed?’ The question has not been answered because the hon. Minister only said ‘whenever the money will become available.’ that is not answering the question. He could have roughly indicated the period at which the construction of the dams is likely to commerce. Therefore, I still want to ask the question as to when the two dams would be constructed at the two mentioned sites.
Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, indeed, I would like to appreciate the anxiety by the hon. Member to get an assurance when the construction of the dams would begin. As the House may be aware, I mentioned that the first part of the project was the identification of the sites. The second part is to undertake the detailed feasibility studies to ensure that an understanding is made as to how the dam will be constructed and the factors that are needed to be taken into account, in the process. I hope that this will be carried out in 2018.
Mr Speaker, the ministry also depends on the Treasury for resources. Once we have carried out the detailed studies, then, we will be able to consider what to put in our budget. It is my hope that by 2019, the ministry will start constructing the two dams. Certainly, even with that assurance, it is just an optimistic view because it will depend on the amount of money the ministry is going to receive from the Treasury and the priorities, which will be laid out in terms of how the construction will be undertaken. The ministry cannot give a specific timeframe in terms of a month when the construction would start. The ministry can only give an indication that once the detailed studies have been undertaken this year, hopefully, we should be able to start constructing the dams in 2019 in the sites, where the feasibility studies would have been undertaken.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, we were assured on the Floor of this House that the World Bank had provided funding for the construction of dams in various localities in the country. Taking into account the answer the hon. Minister has given that the Government does not have adequate resources. What has happened to the financing that was supposed to come from the World Bank?
Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, this is a good question and I think the House will recall that a similar question was asked in the past concerning what must have happened to the World Bank funding for dam construction. I mentioned that under the World Bank funding, there were plans to construct 100 small dams across the country. I also suggested that I would come to this House and give a comprehensive statement on this subject. When I was coming to this House this afternoon, I got an assurance from my colleagues in the ministry that they are actually working on the finalisation of that statement. Therefore, I will come to the House to give a comprehensive statement on what is happening under the World Bank project.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Mr Speaker, we have been hearing the hon. Minister’s story of coming to give a statement on what the World Bank is going to do concerning the construction of dams for some time now. Is the hon. Minister able to provide the data per constituency through our pigeonholes so that we check and see whether there are dams that are going to be constructed in constituencies? It seems the answers we are given here are meant to make people to just forget about what they are asking.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister can give a bonus answer because the question on the Order Paper is very specific.
Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, I do not know as to how I can be specific. This is because from the tone of the question, it is not very clear whether the hon. Member is asking about the number of dams …
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The question which I referred to as being specific is the one on the Order Paper. That is why I said maybe you can provide a bonus answer.
Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. For the benefit of the hon. Member, I think I will say that there are a number of dams which have been constructed through various funding arrangements. The World Bank project is very specific and aimed at constructing 100 small dams across the country. What I will bring to the House is a comprehensive statement, which will indicate the details the hon. Member is looking, for on how many of those dams were planned to be constructed in his constituency, in addition to what is already in existence. That will be part of the comprehensive package which will be brought to this House.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Mr Speaker, out of the seven sites that were earmarked for the dam construction in Magoye, only two have been found to be suitable. In the meantime, the other areas that are unsuitable still need to have water. Are there any alternative plans to ensure that these areas will still have water?
Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, for a place to be identified as a suitable site for the dam construction, there are some very specific technical requirements. For example, we look at the nature of the terrain and whether it is U-shaped for water to flow in that area and so on and so forth. Once we have said that certain areas are not suitable for the dam construction, the alternative available to us to provide water services to those areas is through boreholes. I think the areas that the hon. Member is talking about will benefit from borehole construction, since they will not be able to benefit from getting water supply through the dams.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s detailed response to the question; he indicated that the dam construction is an ongoing activity countrywide. This in a sense entails that there is some proactive activity or pro-action in terms of mapping the country to identify areas where dams are suitable and having a detailed and comprehensive plan of dam construction throughout the country. Is the ministry engaged in that kind of proactive action? Is the hon. Minister in a position to avail to us detailed plans on the dam construction throughout the country?
Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, yes indeed, that plan is there and it can be made available to hon. Members. When I come to the House to make a comprehensive statement, I will also give an indication on what has so far been mapped out in terms of dam construction, borehole drilling and so on and so forth.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
SOCIAL CASH TRANSFER SCHEME BENEFICIARIES
226. Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare:
- what the criteria for identifying the beneficiaries of the Social Cash Transfer Scheme (SCTS) were;
- whether community and traditional leaders were involved in the identification process; and
- what the total number of additional beneficiaries from Mumbwa Parliamentary Constituency for 2018 was.
The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale) (on behalf of the Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare (Mrs Kabanshi): Mr Speaker, the aim of the Social Cash Transfer Scheme (SCTS) is to contribute towards the reduction of poverty in the country. Therefore, the programme targets the vulnerable as well as the incapacitated beneficiaries. As such, the STCS beneficiaries should meet all the three criteria of incapacitation, welfare estimation and residency. Under incapacitation, the following is considered:
- households with persons with severe disabilities (medically certified);
- households with the elderly (sixty-five years old and above, based on National Registrations Cards (NRCs));
- child headed households (below eighteen years and not married);
- chronically ill persons who are on palliative care (medically certified); and
- female headed households with three and more children (nineteen to sixty-four years old).
Mr Speaker, a household’s estimated welfare that is below a certain pre-determined threshold based on the Households Living Index in the country is also considered. This is to assess the poverty levels of the household to determine as to whether it qualifies to be on the programme or not. As for residency, the beneficiary must have been living in the catchment area for at least six months.
Mr Speaker, in order to ensure that eligible beneficiaries are put on the programme, the ministry employs the following process of identifying the beneficiaries:
- creation and reactivation of local structures such as the Community Welfare Assistant Committees (CWACs);
- training of the CWACs;
- awareness raising - Introducing programmes to stakeholders and communities so that they are aware of the programme and categories of households that may qualify to be on the programme;
- training of enumerators who will be listing potential beneficiaries;
- listing of the potential beneficiates - After all households have been sensitised, the enumerators go round the communities accompanied by CWAC members to list the potential beneficiaries;
- community meetings to validate those listed - Communities and traditional leaders are called upon to have a say as to whether those listed for the programme are eligible;
- enumeration of the listed households - The selected households are entered into a data base;
- welfare estimation - This is a computer based programme administered to generate a list of potential beneficiaries by sieving those who do not qualify to be on the programme using a Proxy Means Test (PMT);
- community validation – When the list passes the PMT, a final list of potential beneficiaries is generated for approval by the community through community meetings;
- informing the communities on those who have qualified and those who have not qualified and explaining the reasons why they have not qualified to be on the programme; and
- payment of the transfers.
Therefore, it can be noted from the process that the community and traditional leaders are involved in identifying beneficiaries.
Mr Speaker, in 2018, an additional number of 3,857 beneficiaries will be added to the existing 3,284 beneficiaries for Mumbwa Parliamentary Constituency, bringing the total number of beneficiaries to 7,141 on the SCTS.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, from the criteria that the hon. Minister has indicated to this House and the nation. I have no doubt in my mind that the people of Luapula Province and the Western Province who rely on fishing as their source of livelihood qualify for the SCTS. The hon. Minister may be aware that for the last six months, the people of Luapula Province and the Western Province have had no source of income as a result of the decision for the Government to extend the fishing ban. They are failing to send their children to school. They are also failing to meet their medical expenses. They are almost in destitution. Is the ministry considering placing the people of Luapula Province and the Western Province, who rely on fishing as a source of livelihood on the SCTS?
Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, if I had presented the statistics of the people who are on the SCTS in Luapula Province and the Western Province, the hon. Member would have seen that this working Government has already placed most of the people there on this programme. They are not on the list just because of the fishing ban, but because they qualify to access funds from this programme.
It is not only the SCTS that can help people in the light of the fishing ban, there are many other stopgap measures the ministry can implement to help people.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Nanjuwa: Mr Speaker, I have observed that there are certain beneficiaries in my area who do not qualify to be beneficiaries. Is the ministry considering putting councillors in the process of identifying beneficiaries?
Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the process to identify beneficiaries is really watertight, looking at the eleven stages involved. It is very difficult to identify people who do not qualify to be on the list. However, it is possible that one or two such people may be found on the list. I still do not think that involving councillors is the answer to addressing that issue. We can engage councillors because they are also community leaders and not because they are the best people to identify the right beneficiaries. Therefore, the idea to involve councillors can be considered as a separate issue. I think the hon. Minister of this ministry will look at this matter.
I thank you, Sir.
Princess Mwape (Mkushi North): Mr Speaker, the SCTS is a very important Government programme. It has improved the living standards of the people in the areas where it is being implemented. When will more funds be allocated to this very important programme so that the beneficiaries can get two or three times more than what they are getting now because it is not enough?
Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member that this is a very important programme. This Government has tried as much as possible to increase funding to this programme so that we increase on the number of beneficiaries. This can be seen from what has been provided in the Budget over the last three or four years. The Government should be applauded for that. Funding from co-operating partners has also been very helpful and we applaud all those co-operating partners who have helped us.
I think that we should be increasing funding towards the SCTS not with the view to increase the amount that beneficiaries get, but rather expand the number of people getting the benefit. We do not want to have a situation where very few individuals are getting a lot of money and a big number of people get left out from getting the benefit. We are keen on increasing the number of beneficiaries on this programme and we will keep doing that.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwene (Mangango): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told us the criteria used to select beneficiaries. More beneficiaries could have been accommodated last year, but because the ministry had set a specific number of beneficiaries to be put on the programme in every district, many people who qualify to be on the programme in Mangango, Kaoma, Luampa and Nkeyema were left out. What made the Government leave out so many people who had qualified to be on the programme?
Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, this Government has expanded the number of beneficiaries. Therefore, I do not understand what the hon. Member mean by people were left out. We set a target for ourselves and we have since expanded that target. The example of Mumbwa shows that from 3,857 beneficiaries, we have expanded to 7,141, which is almost a 100 per cent increment in terms of the number of beneficiaries. This is a reflection of what is happening country-wide. Therefore, we are going to manage to meet the target which we set for ourselves.
I thank you, Sir.
POLICE POST CONSTRUCTION IN CHIKANKATA
227. Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
- whether the Government had any plans to construct police posts in Chikankata Parliamentary Constituency;
- if so, how many police posts were earmarked for construction in 2018; and
- when the plans would be implemented.
The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans of constructing police posts in Chikankata Parliamentary Constituency before the completion of on-going projects. However, the Government is currently constructing a police station in Chikankata District.
Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans of constructing police posts in Chikankata Parliamentary Constituency as there is no provision for the construction of the said posts in the 2018 Budget. However, like I have always said, my ministry is ready to provide technical support if the hon. Member considers building some police posts in Chikankata Parliamentary Constituency using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).
Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans of constructing police posts in Chikankata Parliamentary Constituency before completing the police station in Chikankata District.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, it is very surprising that a district with more than twenty primary schools, a secondary school, a school of nursing, Bio-medics School, a university and a lot of commercial farmers will not have a police post. Instead, the Government is constructing a police station where there are no people. Chikankata needs at least one police post to attend to the many problems faced by the people in the area. Surely, does the Government not have some emergency fund which can be used to construct a police post? I say so because this is the centre of Chikankata and not at the place where the Government is building houses where there are no people at the moment.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I am surprised that the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central Parliamentary Constituency does not understand that this police station that I have referred to is being constructed in their district. As you may be aware, where the Government constructs the police stations and, there are no police posts, the officers who are deployed at the police station and the logistical support that is given to the police stations will manage the district even without the police post. However, as I have said: it is the Government’s desire to have police posts in Chikankata Parliamentary Constituency, but we cannot look for emergency funds to construct the police posts before we finish building the police station. In any case, the hon. Member may wish to know that it is at a police station where the Government puts commands to manage the police posts. Therefore, we cannot start with a police post before building a police station. It does not work that way.
Mr Speaker, let me reiterate that the Government can offer technical support if the hon. Member considers constructing police posts using the CDF. I am saying this because I know that has been done in some constituencies. The hon. Members seated next to me and many others have done this. That is why I keep referring to them. Hon. Lubinda, who is seated right next to me, has constructed fully fledged police posts in Kabwata Parliamentary Constituency. Similarly, Hon. Kapata. When you go to Garden Police Post, you will learn that the police post was constructed using the CDF working with the Ministry of Home Affairs. Therefore, when I ask the hon. Members to use the CDF for such a project, I do so knowing well that it is possible.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity. Sometimes I wonder whether we are in the same Government. Hon. Minister, you are in the Government, and so, you know very well that your Government has failed to give hon. Members of Parliament the CDF, which we could otherwise use and assist the Government build the police posts that the hon. Minister is talking about. The onus is on the Government, and not on us. Hon. Lubinda has nothing else to invest his money in, except in the police posts.
Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the statement concerning Hon. Lubinda.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Minister of Justice, please resume your seat.
Mr Lubinda: resumed his seat.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Kabompo Parliamentary Constituency has withdrawn the statement referring to the hon. Minister of Justice. I would now like for him to ask a question.
Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, together with his fellow hon. Ministers, who got 100 per cent of the CDF going to support the hon. Opposition Members of Parliament and other Parliamentarians who are not ministers to put pressure on the hon. Minister of Finance and ensure that the remaining 50 per cent of the CDF is released? Are you ready to do that?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabompo Parliamentary Constituency for that very interesting follow-up question. I know that the hon. Minister of Local Government, working with the hon. Minister of Finance will ensure that the hon. Member for Kabompo Parliamentary Constituency and many others get the remaining CDF. I want to tell the hon. Members that they are part of the Government and the CDF is money which is given to all the constituencies. Therefore, the CDF will be released to the hon. Members. Since hon. Members know very well how effective that Fund is. I would urge them to channel part of it towards the construction of police posts in their respective constituencies.
Sir, I said: Hon. Given Lubinda is a classic example of those who have used the CDF for constructing police posts, but he is not the only one. His Excellency the President, when he was Member of Parliament for Chawama Parliamentary Constituency did the same. You can go there and you will see that the police post is there. Similarly, if you come to my constituency, you will see that there is a police post constructed using the CDF.
Mr Lubinda: Not rotten graders.
Mr Kampyongo: Sir, when you apply this Fund prudently, especially in the home affairs, people will appreciate you by voting you into office, unlike when you promise them graders which never reach them. Then it is a problem.
Mr Lubinda: Masholi.
Laughter
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, Chikankata never received the CDF in 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and in 2017 we received half the amount, hence, we could not build the police post. How does the hon. Minister want his Government to be remembered after 2021?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I did not get the last part of his question clearly.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, I will ask you to repeat yourself so that we can get ...
Mr Sing’ombe: How are you going to be remembered!
Mr Kampyongo: Did he talk about how I am going to be remembered?
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Yes.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I do not want the hon. Member to focus on the years when he was not a hon. Member of Parliament. He should concentrate on the CDF he is receiving as Member of Parliament and not talk about the years when he was not there.
Mr Mwiinga: Why?
Interruptions
Mr Kampyongo: My legacy and the legacy of this Government will be that for the first time Chikankata is going to have a police station completed before the end of the year ...
Mr Mwiinga interjected.
Mr Kampyongo: You listen! You will not come back.
Laughter
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, just give your answer so that the hon. Member can know how this Government is going to be remembered.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I want the hon. Member to listen so that he can bounce back.
Mr Lubinda: Kulibe!
Mr Kampyongo: My legacy and that of this Government will be that Chikankata District will have a full police station, which is being built with ten houses. Are we together?
Laughter
Mr Kampyongo: After that, Chikankata will then have some police posts, which will be built by the ministry with the aid of the hon. Member of Parliament.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Member must understand that this ministry means business. For the very first time, the police officers who look after this nation have accommodation befitting them. We should be watching ...
Mr Mwiinga: interjected.
Mr Kampyongo: The problem is that this hon. Member looks like a one term Member of Parliament ...
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Laughter
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Do not conclude hon. Minister. Withdraw that statement.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I withdraw. However, I want him to pay attention instead of him making funny gestures.
Mr Mwiinga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you cannot raise a point of order on a hon. Minister.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I urge the hon. Member to watch what we are doing at the ministry in terms of infrastructure development. What we are doing has not been done in so many years. We mean well. It is time to bring dignity to our officers who work twenty-four hours a day and all year long to ensure that this country preserves the peace it has enjoyed since independence. That is the legacy we are going to leave as the Government.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, Chawama and Kabwata, according to the hon. Minister, have gotten prizes for having constructed police posts using the CDF. Of course, taking into consideration that these are actually constituencies where the Government has spent huge sums of money to build schools, clinics and the like. What is the cost of constructing a police post using the CDF to the standard where our men and women in uniform would appreciate, against the Government funding?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, that is a very progressive question. I do not have the actual figures as to how much is required with me now. However, I can come back to share the designs and schedule for what is required to put up a police post and how much it would cost.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that they cannot put a police post before they have a police station put up. Let us assume that the police station being constructed in Chikankata Constituency takes about three years to be completed. What happens if the hon. Member is lucky enough to get the CDF and build a police post at a place of his choice before the completion of the police station? Is the Government going to give them the police officers to start operating to ensure that the structure they build will not become a white elephant?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, what I was trying to say was that if we said, we go with the police posts for now, that would mean they will be under Mazabuka Police Command. That is how it works. Chikankata is now a full-fledged district. It needs to have a police station as a district with its own command, which supervises all the officers that could be assigned to the police posts to be established later on. My assurance to the hon. Member for Chikankata was that, all things being equal, we are expecting this police station to be completed by august, this year. If there are funds available, there is no harm in the hon. Member putting up something that can concurrently run with the project which is almost near completion. That is what I meant.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
DYSFUNCTIONAL COMMUNICATION TOWER AT ZOZWE IN VUBWI
228. Ms M. Miti (Vubwi) asked the Minister of Transport and Communication:
- whether the Government had any plans to replace the dysfunctional communication tower at Zozwe in Vubwi Parliamentary Constituency;
- if so, when the plans would be implemented; and
- if the tower could not be replaced, what the way forward was.
The Minister of Transport and Communication (Mr Mushimba): Mr Speaker, a professional analysis of the tower at Zozwe was conducted on 14th February, 2018, by expert engineers and was supervised by the Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA). The analysis determined that the site is still running, but underwent short intermittent outages that affected its performance. The site has since been serviced and is back online.
Sir, following the recent servicing of the site, the tower will not need to be replaced. No further action is required as the tower is running. Additionally, the ministry through the Communication Towers Phase 2 Project had earmarked the following sites for construction of communication towers in Vubwi Constituency:
- Musokesela;
- Komani Hill;
- Kavumo ...
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1810 hours until 1830 hours.
[MR SECOND DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
Mr Mushimba: Mr Speaker, before we broke off, I was giving information on the state of the communication towers and the addition ones that are earmarked for construction in Vubwi Constituency. The list I was giving for those sites includes:
- Musokosela;
- Komani Hill;
- Kavumo;
- Mwanganzi;
- Miti Hill RP;
- Nyamandevu RP; and
- Chikoka.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Vubwi has given us feedback as a ministry that due to the delimitation that happened, some of these sites have actually ended up in Chadiza and that reconciliation will be done in the ministry to see if we need to remap these sites.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Mr Speaker, the towers at Zozwe …
Mr Mwale: Hear, hear!
Mr Mbulakulima: … were constructed in 2013, as at today, the people of Zozwe are crying that there is no network coverage while the hon. Minister has said everything is okay. Would the hon. Minister mind to investigate further so that the people of Zozwe can also benefit from improved network coverage like their brothers and sisters in other parts of the country?
Mr Mushimba: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Milenge for his question. As I explained earlier this site at some point experienced some challenges and it went off for a while. However, ZICTA who constructed this site under phase 1 were they constructed 204 towers across 118 chiefdoms went to the site on 14th February, 2018. They did the assessment to understand intermittent failures that were being experienced and the tower was serviced. As I speak to you now, the site is up and running.
Mr Speaker, the challenges that we have experienced with some of these sites, like I have spoken here before, we learnt a lot of lessons from phase 1 because of some of the challenges we have had. One of them, as I was talking to the technocrats in the ministry not too long ago about this, these sites are powered with the green energy or solar. The design of the solar system including the battery that powers these sites is for a certain period of time. Let us say we do not have sun shine for a period of time and those batteries are only supposed to power this site for six or eight hours. The battery gets drained and the light goes out on site, until the next sunrise. This is something that has been observed and it is receiving additional attention from the ministry. The ministry is working to see how we could possibly retrofit this powering system to make sure that the battery life stays longer through the night and on those cloudy days before these sites are put out.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr W. Banda (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the new towers are being constructed in Zozwe. May I find out the coverage area for these new towers that are being constructed?
Mr Mushimba: Mr Speaker, the towers that we are constructing now under phase 2 are of varying sizes. The tallest one that we have, is roughly 85 m and the signal strength or the coverage is about 10 Km. these are the majority of the towers in phase 2. Like I said, we learnt so much from phase 1. Hence, we wanted to make sure all the lessons learnt from phase 1 are applied in phase 2. This was to make sure that the specifications that we adopted for phase 2 towers were much stronger and better than what we delivered in phase 1. We want to make sure that we close up the gaps that we found after we finished phase 1.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
ROAD TRANSPORT AND SAFETY OFFICES IN KATETE
229. Mr W Banda (Milanzi) asked the Minister of Transport and Communication:
(a) whether the Government had any plans to construct offices for the Road Transport and Safety Agency in Katete District in order to decongest the Chipata Office;
(b) if so, when the plans will be implemented; and
(c) if there are no such plans, why.
The Minister of Transport And Communication (Mr Mushimba): Mr Speaker, the Government may consider construction of offices for the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) in Katete District in phase 2 of RTSA Infrastructure Development Programme.
Sir, currently the agency is implementing phase 1 of the Infrastructure Development Programme in ten districts. These ten stations are; (i) Chinsali, (ii) Chipata, (iii) Choma, (iv) Kitwe, (v) Luanshya, (vi) Lusaka, (vii) Mpika, (Viii) Mufulira…
Dr Chibanda: Hear, hear!
Mr Mushimba: Yes, it is in the constituency of Hon. Dr Chibanda that is why he is very happy.
(ix) Petauke and (x) Solwezi.
Mr Speaker, in the Eastern Province, Petauke was selected instead of Katete because of its proximity to Nyimba, Sinda and Katete itself. Katete was considered to be closer to Chipata than Petauke in terms of service delivery. Additionally, RTSA services in Katete are offered at the Chanida Border Post, which is about 50 Km away from Katete. We feel this amount of coverage around Katete services the population of Katete quite ably without having to put up a new site in the phase that we are implementing.
Mr Speaker, plans to consider RTSA offices in Katete will be considered once we finish these ten sites. Obviously, going by the answer to part (a) of the question, we have made sure that around Katete, there are enough offices to service the people of Katete. As we finish phase 1 we will consider additional districts including Katete funding permitting.
Sir, the Government does have such plans. However, implementation will depend on the availability of resources.
I thank you.
Mr W. Banda: Mr Speaker, when is Phase 1 coming to an end, so that the people of Katete can have a picture of when the Government will start the works?
Mr Mushimba: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, Phase 1 has had a slow start because of the non-availability of resources that I mentioned earlier. When I came to the ministry, I found that contracts had been given. When I followed up, I found out that there was no contractor on any of the sites because the mobilisation fees and the down payments had not been paid. Up to this point, the update I have from my ministry is that in Luanshya, a contractor is on site and the building has progressed well. It is actually beyond window level.
Mr Speaker, in my constituency, Mufulira, I took time to look at the site that was picked as I was recently there. The contractor has mobilised but no works have been done yet. Hopefully, very soon, some works will commence. The contractor has not yet moved on the other eight sites as advance payments for mobilisation have not been paid. This is a challenge that the agency faces. Due to erratic funding sometimes, it is impossible for the agency to move in quickly and implement these agenda items. However, we are pushing and the Ministry of Finance has been very supportive. They are listening to our cries and concerns to make sure that all the districts across the country are catered for. Those pleas and calls are receiving good attention. I can assure the people of Milanzi that once we get funding for this turn, we are quickly going to move to the next surveys to see which sites will be considered. I hope Katete, will be considered on those Phase 2 sites which will be picked.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
COURT JUDGES
230. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Justice:
- how many judges of the following courts there were, as of 31st December, 2017;
- Supreme Court;
- Constitutional Court;
- Court of Appeal; and
- High Court; and
- what measures were being taken to speed up the disposal of court cases in the country.
The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, on behalf of the Ministry of Justice and the Government in general, I would like to register our heartfelt condolences on the passing of Judge Chali, who was resident judge in Kitwe.
Sir, as of 31st of December, 2017, the Supreme Court had thirteen Judges out of a total prescribed number of thirteen. The Constitutional Court had six out of a total prescribed number of thirteen. The Court of Appeal had twelve, out of a prescribed number of nineteen. The High Court had thirty-nine out of the prescribed number of sixty.
Mr Speaker, the following are a number of measures that the Government is undertaking to speed up the disposal of court cases in the country:
- increasing the number of judges and magistrates;
- appointment of research advocates to assist judges with research. On this call, I would like to thank the hon. Members of Parliament for supporting the amendment that we presented last week on the Judicial Administration so that we take away the requirements for the two year post qualification experience, for a person to qualify to be appointed as a research advocate;
- appointment of research assistants to assist magistrates with their research work;
- appointment of court reporters to assist taking down of court proceedings;
- implementation of case flow management system whereby, every adjudicator is required to file case returns at the end of each month in order to monitor the flow of the disposal of cases. Furthermore, the compilation of annual reports, which demonstrates statistics of case disposal and provides an overview of areas that require improvement;
- utilisation of court annexed mediation processes to decongest the court’s cause lists and to facilitate the speedy disposal of cases, thereby allowing the clearance of the backlog of cases.
Mr Speaker, in addition to that, we are also digitising case records in the Judiciary.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I am interested in the number of judges that we have in High Courts. I am aware that every province has High Courts but I feel that they are operating at a low pace. I am saying so because a number of judges who should cover these cases in the High Court are not enough. Each High Court has resident judges, but some of them do not reside in the areas where they work from. This is also another challenge which the courts are facing in order to facilitate …
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Question, hon. Member.
Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, amongst the measures which the hon. Minister has stated, he has not mentioned anything that will increase the number of resident judges in the provinces.
Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the first measure I mentioned was about increasing the number of judges. The hon. Member is now telling me about increasing the number of resident judges in provinces. I spoke generally about increasing the number of judges.
As of 31st of December, we only had thirty-nine High Court Judges, out of the total required number of sixty. The Government intends to increase the number from thirty-nine to sixty. Let me just clarify one matter that the hon. Member spoke about. It is not correct that we have Resident High Court Judges in every province. We do not. I spoke about this matter not too long ago. It is the Government’s desire to ensure that we have a High Court in all the provinces of the country. At the moment, even the city of Chipata does not have a High Court. Judges just circuit to provinces. They circuit to Chipata and Mongu. However, the Government intends to at least have a High Court in all the provincial headquarters.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr M Kabanda (Serenje): Mr Speaker, the deficit in the number of Judges at constitutional, appeal and high court levels is quite worrying. Do we not have qualified Judges in the private sector, who can fill up these positions?
Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the House may remember that when I presented names of candidates for ratification on the appointment as Judges, I did bemoan the fact that we do not have sufficient infrastructure to take on more Judges. As I speak, some of them have to share chambers because of lack of infrastructure. It is not because of lack of personnel, it is more to do with infrastructure.
Sir, last time I spoke on this matter, I indicated that the Government was looking at ways of increasing infrastructure for the Judiciary. I spoke about the major project of constructing a subordinate court and a new magistrate court complex in Mwembezhi. Within Lusaka, we are also looking for ways of increasing chambers and court rooms. We can have sixty High Court Judges, but unfortunately they will not have sufficient court rooms from which to hear cases and chambers from which to operate. That is the hindrance that we have at the moment. However, I want to assure my honourable colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Serenje, that this is a matter that is receiving the Government’s very serious attention.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister talked of the desire and intention of the Government to ensure that it provides the necessary Judges in the system so that it can facilitate the disposal of the pending cases, especially in rural areas or provincial headquarters. However, he mentioned that one of the major challenges is infrastructure. As a nation, we have contracted so much debt for infrastructure and the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is known for boasting about the facilitation of infrastructure in this country. What happened to this particular sector since they say they are champions of infrastructure? Why have they not built the necessary infrastructure in most places considering the fact that they have incurred high and unsustainable debt?
Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I wonder whether there is anybody who can doubt the fact that the Government is extremely focused on providing the necessary infrastructure for our people. I am sure that the hon. Member for Kabompo has since 2011 seen the heavy investment in the road sector. He knows the amount of investment that has gone into hospitals and schools. Surely, we could not cover all sectors at the same time. We are determined and we have done what we said we would do so far. We now have the intention and desire to provide the necessary infrastructure for the Judiciary. Watch the space, and give us the support that we need. We will surely deliver on our intentions. It is not correct to speak about desires and intentions and to make them appear as though they are diabolical. Even the most gigantic projects, start as a desire or intention. There are also people who have the desire and intention of winning the elections. They keep losing and keep on desiring and intending.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Lubinda: They never give up. Why should we be discouraged? We have the intention and the desire. However, the difference is that we always deliver on our intentions.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. UPND Members: Ubomba mwibala!
COMPUTERS FOR GWEMBE SCHOOLS
231. Ms Chisangano (Gwembe) asked the Minister of General Education:
- whether the Government had any plans to procure computers for schools in Gwembe District;
- if so, when the plans would be implemented.
The Minister of General Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, since the introduction of the teaching of Information and Communication Technology (ICT) in our education system, the Government has in a phased approach been supplying computers to schools, especially in the primary sub-sector. It desires to ensure that all the children have access to computers. However, in the face of limited resources, the rollout has been phased. For 2018 budget, the ministry plans to procure computers that will be supplied to twenty-four schools in each province. Gwembe District will be one of the beneficiaries of these computers.
Sir, the plans to procure computers to all schools including those in Gwembe, will be implemented as soon as funds are released by the Treasury.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Ms Chisangano: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that computers will be supplied to twenty-four schools per province and this does not give any hope for Gwembe. What immediate help can the Government offer to some of the schools in my constituency? For example, a teacher and forty pupils from Chamwe Primary School have to go to the nearest school to use a computer from that school. Is there anything that the Government can do for such schools?
Mr Sing’ombe: On their way back, they are soaked.
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, like I said: immediately we buy computers this year, we will ensure that schools receive some computers.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwene (Mangango): Mr Speaker, having heard the lamentations of the hon. Member for Gwembe and that there are donors who are using their money to buy exercise books, does the hon. Minister intend to consult such donors so that they can procure some computers for schools in Gwembe?
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, if co-operating partners who donate computers come on board before we procure computers, I will definitely see to it that my honourable colleague is supported. Maybe, she can see me later on and we can have a conversation on this matter.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
DAM CONSTRUCTION IN LUANO
232. Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South) asked the Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection:
- how many dams had been constructed in Luano District from January, 2016 to December, 2017;
- what the total cost of constructing the dams were;
- if there had been none, whether the Government had any plans to construct dams in the district in 2018;
- if so, which areas had been identified for construction of the dams; and
- when the construction works would commence.
The Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection (Dr Wanchinga): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there were no dams constructed from January, 2016 to December, 2017 in Luano District.
Mr Speaker, for the reason stated above, there were no costs that could be cited because there were no constructions.
The Government through the Department of Water Resources under the ministry of, Water Development Sanitation and Enviromenatal Protection has also been undertaking this as the ongoing programme, and the identification of potential dam sites across the country which also includes Luano District. Once such a site has been identified as suitable for the dam construction, the next stage, as I have answered to similar questions, would be to undertake detailed drawings and preparing Bills of Quantities (BOQ) associated with such works. Once this is done, then the ministry will put such sites on the long term plan which has been developed, for either rehabilitation or construction.
Consequently, Mr Speaker, in Luano District the ministry carried out reconnaissance surveys to identify the potential dam sites in 2017. One site was found to be suitable for the dam construction.
The site which has been identified for the dam construction is Kamimbya in the Kamimbya Ward of Chief Kanyesha’s area.
Mr Speaker, at this stage, no construction works will commence because detailed feasibility studies have not been undertaken. However, the site has been included on the list of potential dam sites across the country that are earmarked for full feasibility studies, which will be undertaken as soon as resources are made available.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr P. Phiri: Waona!
Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, I am definitely sure that the hon. Minister is aware that this country is amongst the many blessed countries within the Central African Region, which receives a lot of water. At the end of the day, this water just goes to waste without being harvested in dams. A place like Luano which is a very dry place requires damming. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, what sort of plans does he have within his ministry to ensure that the programmes of having dams and harvesting the water to be used for agricultural purposes is actually achieved?
Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, that is a very important question. Indeed, apart from dam construction and drilling of boreholes, the ministry is now seriously considering putting in place a programme for water harvesting. We are aware of the amount of water which goes into the Indian Ocean. If harvested, that water could be used for irrigation and other economic uses.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Chali (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s answer, he talked about sampling and testing the soils for determining the dam sites. He said: there were no dams constructed in Luano last year. Out of the dams that were supposed to be constructed last year, under the funding of the World Bank, did any take off? If not, why?
Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, like I said: I will bring a comprehensive statement on the World Bank funded project where it was planned to construct at least 100 small dams. Just for the interim, I would mention that yes, there are a number of dams which have been constructed and we have completed about eight of these. There are plans to negotiate with our funding partner for additional dams. I think I will give a comprehensive statement later on. Certainly, whether that question is being asked in the context of trying to find out whether Luano is one of those places funded by the World Bank, the information will be made available once it is consolidated.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said: he has identified Kamimbya as one of the potential areas for dam construction, what criteria did he use? I know that there are certain areas where there is high concentration of animal rearing unlike Kamimbya which is a potential area. What criteria did he use to identify Kamimbya Ward?
Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, that is a very important question. I think for all of us to understand what criteria were used, it is important to realise that the dam construction is a reoccurring issue. The most important criterion used is to know whether the terrain will allow water to be contained. Generally, it must be U-shaped. That is the most important criterion.
Secondly, there must be a possibility that either seasonally or perennially, there will be water flowing in that particular area. Otherwise, there would be no point in constructing a dam in an area where it will be very difficult to harvest or contain any water.
The third criterion is the economic value of the area. There is no point in building a dam in an area which cannot be put to good use, Mr Speaker.
Sir, the fourth criterion is the density of population in an area. Certainly, these factors together with the possibility of having alternatives as to whether water can be sourced in another way or in a cheaper or effective way. These are the criteria which I used to determine whether this place is suitable for dam construction.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
TOWNSHIP ROAD TARRING IN LUNDAZI
233. Mr Nyirenda (Lundazi) asked the Minister of Local Government:
- when the tarring of township roads in Lundazi would commence;
- what had caused the delay in commencing the project;
- what the total cost of the project was; and
- what the time-frame for completing the project was.
The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the tarring of the township roads in Lundazi will commence once the contractor is paid. None payments or delays in making payments caused the delay in commencing the project. The total cost of the project is K53,522,837.74.
Sir, the timeframe is twelve months from the time the contractor commences works.
I thank you, Mr Speaker
LECTURERS WITH PHDS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ZAMBIA (UNZA)
234. Mr Simbao (Senga Hill) asked the Minister of Higher Education:
- how many lecturers with phDs were at the University of Zambia as of December, 2017;
- how many lecturers above were in the School of Engineering;
- how many lecturers at (b) were in the Depart of Electrical Engineering;
- whether the university is able to attract lecturers with phD qualification; and
- if not, why.
The Minister of Higher Education (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there were 318 lecturers with the phDs at the University of Zambia (UNZA) as of December, 2017. Out of the 318 lecturers with the phDs at UNZA, twenty-one were in the School of Engineering.
Sir, out of twenty-one lecturers in the School of Engineering, four were in the Department of Electrical Engineering.
Mr Speaker, UNZA is able to attract local lecturers with the phDs level qualification in some disciplines such as the Humanities, Education and Agriculture. These disciplines may have readily available phD level professionals. Some of whom may want to work in the academia. However, other disciplines such as engineering do not have the phD qualified professionals because even at recruitment in the first year, very few students apply to natural sciences, where engineers are picked from. The pass rate is also very poor. As a result, UNZA has a very small pool from which staff development fellows to train to the level at which the phD can be gotten.
Mr Speaker, the major reasons why the university does not attract lecturers with the phD qualifications in some disciplines are lack of readily available professionals at the phD level in industry. Secondly, for sometime now, there has been no deliberate policy to popularise science in this country. Hence, the Government has now indentified universities such as; Mukuba University and the upcoming, Nalolo and Kabompo universities, which will focus on science, mathematics and technology at university level.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, this is a very sad revelation, especially that the whole country knows that education is key to economic growth. Tertiary education in particular is the heart of innovation. Further, the world knows that without the phD research, we would have no MP-3 or GPS technologist.
Mr Speaker, in 2014 alone, the United States of America (USA) 67,000 phD holders, Germany produced 28,000 and South Korea, which was like us produced 13,000. Therefore, it is sad to learn that there are only four phD holders in electrical engineering. I do not know who our students are copying. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what is the rate of production of the phD graduants at UNZA and the CBU in science technology engineering and mathematics?
Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, in my response, I indicated that the rate of production of the phD students, especially in the area of science is extremely low. This is why the PF recognised that deficiency when it took over the Government. This is the reason the Government has decided to open up more institutions, which will train our people in science, mathematics and technology. In so doing, and as we popularise it, we will also open new institutions which will attract more students.
Mr Speaker, let me also take advantage of this particular question and state that I have also been following the award of the scholarships in this country. Previously, my staff at the ministry told me that they were worried about the Anti Corruption Commission (ACC). They decided to be advertising for masters and the phD through the Zambia Daily Mail Newspaper. When the advertisement is carried in the Zambia Daily Mail Newspapers, it is like leaving it to chance. Therefore, when people are going to get into masters and the phDs, the advertisements must go to the institutions like UNZA, the CBU or Mulungushi (MU) universities. In doing that, we can also retain them in the institutions, where they are coming from.
Sir, let me say something which I have said before. The good news is that the ACC should come in and carry out what they like, but we need to change the way in which advertisements for the phDs and masters are carried out. Therefore, from this year, the phDs and masters have been offered to the institutions of higher learning. Suffice to say that some of the scholarships are actually in science and mathematics. We are likely to churn out more people who are going to take advantage of the scholarships this year.
Mr Speaker, again, taking advantage of this particular question, the second issue is that there has been no deliberate attempt to start raking our children in the rural parts of Zambia because when the advertisement are carried out in the Zambia Daily Mail Newspapers, only the people from the line of rail apply. Therefore, the ministry will reserve a percentage of scholarships for the children, who are doing well in the rural areas. I am, pleased to report this afternoon …
Dr Hamukale: Hear, hear!
Prof. Luo: … that I have had many discussions with some hon. Members of Parliament about the direction my ministry is taking.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Prof. Luo: If we get some our children from the rural of Kaputa or Chilubi, who go out to Russia or wherever to study, obviously, it will make an impact because the other children in those rural parts of Zambia will see the need to focus on education. We are going to take advantage of those we have left behind so that they can get well trained.
Mr Speaker, finally, I want to say that the ministry needs to start popularising education. We do not celebrate education in Zambia. In fact, if you become educated, you become an enemy of many.
Mr Nkhuwa: Absolutely!
Prof. Luo: People need to understand that education, particularly in science and mathematics, is a precursor to development.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Sir, my heart was really touched when the hon. Minister mentioned rural areas because children in Washishi and Mitete have great potential to be educated. We need to address the poor passing rate so that the potential engineers are identified. Therefore, what is the Government going to do to help improve the passing rate in schools? If we do not address that aspect of education, we will not utilise the potential of many children. We may have many tertiary institutions, but where are the would-be students going to come from, if the passing rate is very poor and nothing is being done to improve the situation?
Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, one of the innovations that we have brought to the Ministry of Higher Education is the reintroduction of career guidance. We will soon be appointing in every province career guidance counselors, especially those that can be an inspiration to pupils. You may recall that many years ago, a lot of us benefited from such people because they visited our schools and talked about some of their own achievements.
Mr Speaker, for example, we could get people like Prof. Chomba, who was the first ever woman doctor in this country to be part of the career guidance team. When she is speaking to the girl children, she will be able to show that she made it even at a time when it was very difficult to get into science as a woman. She was the only woman student in the medical school at UNZA when it was opened. Hence, those are the kind of people we are looking for and we will be sending them in different schools to go and mentor children from time to time.
Mr Speaker, passing is not really about sitting in a classroom. Passing is about inspiration and passion. Therefore, apart from having teachers, we would like to add the career guidance aspect to our education system to stimulate students.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Ms Mwashingwele (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I am so thankful to the hon. Minister that she has spoken about the quality of education, especially for the PhD holders. However, we should understand that unless we have a good base of undergraduates, the PhDs will be a farfetched dream for many. What are we doing about improving the number of entrants in our tertiary institutions, especially at UNZA? It has been many years after independence; UNZA is still using a quota system to select students. You find that those that go into engineering are less than fifty, but those that sit for the natural science examinations are more than 1,000. The wastage is very high.
Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, in answering this question, I want to say that we are departing from the quota system. Secondly, we are looking at the total education sector in our country. The education system in Zambia is very punitive and along the way we lose a lot of the potential students who would have contributed to our country. We have been discussing with my colleague, the hon. Minister of General Education for an interface, so that we can start better preparations for our children. Some of the children that are on the street right now could have been potential leaders in the country. Therefore, my colleague and I will redefine education so that we answer to the development agenda of this country.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, to my knowledge, the programmes for a master’s degree and the PhD at public institutions are very costly. Is there a government programme that can encourage people taking these courses by way of providing them with assistance through scholarships or any other means? The Government can come up with a staff development programme for people to be encouraged because these programmes are very expensive. As far as I know, everyone doing a master’s degree or the PhD programme is doing so at their own expense.
Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, in fact, the issue raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Senga Hill is a problem that we have identified in the ministry. I have been meeting with the various vice-chancellors of different universities and they agree that we need to reengineer the staff development fellowship. A lot of people who have the PhDs and master’s degrees at the moment benefited from the past staff development fellowship in our institutions. I recall when I used to be a lecturer for the school of medicine at UNZA, we used to pick students in their fourth year and send them to go and further their studies, to a master’s degree and they would later come back to complete their undergraduate medical training. Hence, as they are qualifying, they already either are; pathologists or any other specialists in the medical field.
Mr Speaker, we are, therefore, revamping and reengineering our education system. Furthermore, we are not only going to be using UNZA for training people for master’s degrees, but we will be training them for master’s degrees and the PhDs to be part of the research agenda of our institutions. We are actually changing a lot of things at the various universities in this country.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, to some extent, the hon. Member for Senga Hill has been able to ask my question. However, I just want the hon. Minister to be specific. What incentives is the Government putting in place to encourage master’s degree and the PhD holders to participate in research as well as academics so that we advance the wellbeing of the people of Zambia? We need to be as good as the USA that churns out 28,000 PhD and master’s degree holders in a given period.
Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I should right from the outset state that it is not possible at the stage we are, for me to boast of being able to produce the 68,000 PhD holders out of Zambia. It is first things first. At the moment, we are reengineering and restructuring our institutions to be able to respond to the call that the Government has put in place. There are certain things that need to happen in our institutions first. This is why one of the programmes that my ministry is working on in partnership with one of our co-operating partners is actually looking at how our people, especially within our tertiary institutions, can have a mindset change because that is where it starts.
Mr Speaker, we need a pool of staff in our institutions to look at education as their core function. At the moment, our universities, both public and private, are seen as businesses. The university education, colleagues, is not a business. The core business of universities should be developing human beings.
We are working round the clock to restructure the universities. When the restructuring is completed, we are going to reengineer our staff development fellowship. Reengineering goes with resources. The next budget of the Ministry of Higher Education will have a budget line for staff to acquire masters and the PhD degrees. Even if we had money for developing staff in universities, if we had no students to receive this money, we would not succeed. That is why we have put the career guidance programme in lower education to push more people into universities.
Mr Speaker, one final thing is that we need to change our mindset about education, especially science education. All of us need to agree that the precursor to development is science and technology. Any country that does not do a deliberate policy to invest in science and technology is lost. It does not matter how much money it will put in agriculture or any other sector, if it does not have the human capital to go and work in agriculture, it will not develop.
I need the total support of this august House to change the status quo and celebrate science and technology. Israel for example, is where it is today because of science and technology. It is a country that has a desert and is completely surrounded by salty water. However, they are able to remove the salt from the water and irrigate their crops because at one point, the Government decided to invest in science and technology.
I thank you, Sir.
WATER SUPPLY PROJECT FOR SERENJE TOWNSHIP
235. Mr Kabanda (Serenje) asked the Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection:
- when the works on the water supply project for Serenje township would be completed;
- what had caused the delay in completing the project; and
- what the cost of the project was.
The Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection (Dr Wanchinga): Mr Speaker, the works for Serenje water supply project will be completed by the end of the third quarter of this year. The progress of work stands at 65 per cent. The remaining works involves the procurement and installation of three new borehole pumps and the construction of a 2.7 km transmission pipeline to connect the new boreholes to the new tank as well as various connections to various households on the new network.
Mr Speaker, the delay in completing the project has been largely due to the following reasons: Firstly, there was a challenge in finding a sustainable ground water source as the boreholes drilled initially in the planned wellfields were dry. A more sustainable wellfield has been established and the new boreholes have since been drilled at a new site. This exercise took longer than expected as the exploratory boreholes had to be drilled in order to establish a suitable aquifer with an acceptable yield. Secondly, there was also a delay in the release of funds for the project.
Sir, the total cost for the project is K20.8 million.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kabanda: Mr Speaker, what population has been targeted for this project?
Dr Wanchinga: Mr Speaker, the population targeted is the population of Serenje District. I am not sure whether the hon. Member is referring to the actual population size of the district or not.
I thank you, Sir.
RURAL HEALTH POST ELECTRIFICATION IN MUCHINGA
236. Mr Kunda (Muchinga) asked the Minister of Health when the electrification of the following rural health posts in Muchinga Parliamentary Constituency would commence:
- Chibuye Saili;
- Miswema;
- Kamena;
- Kabwe Kupela;
- Mulembo;
- Kapeshi;
- Kofi Kunda;
- Fikondo;
- Chief Serenje; and
- Masase.
The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, of the ten facilities listed, eight of them, that is, Chibuye Saili, Kamena, Kabwe Kupela, Mulembo, Kapeshi, Kofi Kunda, Fikondo and Chief Serenje were initiated through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). These eight facilities are at various levels of construction, with only Chibuye Saili complete. However, it has not yet been handed over by the contractor to the local authorities. Works are ongoing on the other seven facilities. Considering that these facilities are still under construction, the Ministry of Health is actively liaising with the local authorities to ensure that the electrification is within the scope of works to be undertaken. The remaining two facilities, Miswema and Masase, were constructed by the Ministry of Health. Both facilities are complete and are fully operational with solar power.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Second Deputy Speaker: Order!
MOTION
ADJOURNMENT
The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business (Mr Chungu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.
Question put and agreed to.
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The House adjourned at 1939 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 14th March, 2018.
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