Debates - Thursday, 7th March, 2013 | National Assembly of Zambia

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 7th March, 2013

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

COMMEMORATION OF INTERNATIONAL WOMEN’S DAY

Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that the National Assembly of Zambia will join the international community in commemorating the International Women’s Day which willfall tomorrow, Friday, 8th March, 2013. The theme for this year is, “Gender Agenda: Gaining Momentum”.

Hon. Members may wish to note that 8th March has, therefore, been designated as a national holiday. In line with the theme for 2013 and, as part of the activities aiming at sensitising the Zambian public on gender issues, selected Members, representing the National Assembly, yesterday, Wednesday, 6th March, 2013, visited Moomba High School in Katuba Constituency, where they offered words of encouragement and shared their experiences on the need to have more girls enrolled in school and also on the need to have more women, just like their men counterparts, to take up leadership positions in decision making and other areas of human endeavour.

Furthermore, as the event will be commemorated at national level, selected hon. Members of Parliament willtake part in the march past tomorrow to commemorate the International Women’s Day.

Thank you.

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an idea of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Wednesday, 13th March, 2013, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the Second Reading stage of the following Bills:

(a) the National Health Research Bill, 2013; and

(b) the Medicines and Allied Substances Bill, 2013.

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 14th March, 2013, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any.

Sir, on Friday, 15th March, 2013, the Business of the House will begin with the Vice-President’s Questions Time. This will be followed by Questions, there will be any. After that, the House will deal with the Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. On this day, all other things being equal, I intend to move a Motion to suspend the relevant Standing Orders in order to enable the House to complete all business on the Order Paper and, thereafter, adjourn sine die. Hon. Members, take note that it is your last chance, for some while, to ask a sharp question on that Friday.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, the two subjects that you indicated I should make statements on are the progress on the Access to Information Bill, otherwise known as the Freedom of Information Bill and the Political Conduct of Public Servants with reference to Mr George Mpombo. Those are the two issues from the points of order that were raised.

THE ACCESS TO INFORMATION BILL

Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity that you have accorded me to update the nation, through this august House, on the status of the Access to Information Bill and measures the Government is taking to present the Bill to the House.

Sir, the Access to Information Bill aims at increasing openness and transparency, guarantee freedom of information on the right to access information, improve accountability and improve the Government’s relationship with the people. These are values that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government stands for.

In line with the party manifesto, the PF-led Government recognises the need to allow our people access to information concerning their Government that is held by public institutions because we know that this is central to the growth of democracy to which we are committed.

Mr Speaker, people need information to reach consensus on national issues, assess accountability, participate in decision making and monitor the application of the rule of law and, most importantly, assess equity and inclusiveness in national issues.

This Government is also aware that the previous Government had no interest in running an open Government and, therefore, decided to put this very important issue at the back of their list of priorities for twenty years. The Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government preferred to continue operating in secrecy. That was why the Access to Information Bill never saw the light of day until they were finally ejected from the Government by the people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: However, the PF Government is convinced, beyond reasonable doubt, that a Government that operates in secrecy attracts undue criticism and alienates itself from the people whose support it needs to successfully implement its development agenda.

Mr Speaker, it is against this background that the PF Government is making strong efforts to bring the Access to Information Bill back to Parliament for enactment and to prepare for its implementation. Simple enactment of the Access to Information Bill is the easier part of the process. It is the implementation that is much more challenging. Without careful planning, we risk having a law that cannot be implemented. This would be more frustrating than to wait a little bit for more of its foundation to be laid.

Mr Speaker, as you may recall, last year, I told the nation, through this august House, that the Government would bring the Access to Information Bill to Parliament for enactment in February, 2013. I regret to inform the House that it is not possible to table the Bill in the current sitting. This time is not enough for the Government to complete all the processes and procedures that precede the presentation of the Bill to this House. At this stage, a Cabinet memorandum has been drafted and has been delivered to Cabinet Office today.

Sir, what this means is that the Bill will be circulated to hon. Cabinet Ministers, through their respective ministries, for their comments. Procedurally, this process takes two weeks. After the Bill has been commented upon, the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting will collect the comments and submit the Bill to Cabinet Office which, as I said, has just been done. The Bill will then be submitted to the Cabinet to undergo the formal approval processes. It is only after the Cabinet’s formal approval of the Bill that it will be ready to be tabled before the House and be subjected to the formal enactment processes.

Mr Speaker, I want to assure the nation, through this august House, that the Government remains committed to enacting the Access to Information Bill. I do not wish to embarrass myself, again, by giving a date, but we are estimating, at the moment, that we will be able to table the Bill in June. That is the timetable we are working towards. As a Government, we believe that the proposed Access to Information Bill is one of the most progressive of its kind, having been developed in close and full collaboration and participation of key stakeholders such as the civil society, academia and legislative experts.

POLITICAL CONDUCT OF PUBLIC SERVANTS

The Vice-President:Mr Speaker, I thank you for indulging me with the time to read this statement concerning the code of ethics for public servants.

I wish to inform this august House that the code of ethics for the Public Service clearly spells out the restrictions on the political conduct of the public servants when executing their functions. The code states as follows:

(a) “Public Service employees should serve the Government of the day, whatever its political persuasion, to the best of their ability in the way that maintains political impartiality and in line with the requirements as outlined in the code of ethics; no matter what their political beliefs are;

(b) Public Service employees should not act in a way that is determined by political party, cultural, religious, ethical, social and other considerations or use official resources for political party purposes; and

In view of the above, public servants, serving locally or in foreign missions, are expected to abide by the code of ethics for the Public Service, asany contravention of the rules set out in the code of ethics may result in disciplinary action taken against the concerned officer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statements given by His Honour the Vice-President.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, although the specific question was on Mr Mpombo, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President how he reconciles his Government’s continued calls for civil servants to adhere to the PF Manifesto and his explanation that they are not expected to exhibit any partisan tendencies as they carry out their day-to-day work.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if I may just remind the hon. Questioner that the first part of the code of ethics says that Public Service employees should serve the Government of the day, whatever its political persuasion. Serving the Government of the day involves implementing or helping to implement programmes laid down by that Government which is, of course, a political party-driven policy laid down by the Cabinet. At the same time, it says that Public Service employees should not act in a way that is determined by a political party and other considerations. In other words, their political and personal loyalties should not determine what advice they give or actions they take, but the policy of the Government they have to adhere to. I hope that is clear.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, now that it is very clear that through the ethics that have been spelt out, civil servants should not indulge in party activities and politics, is the said Mr Mpombo going to apologise, using the same medium that he made the statement in or will he be disciplined by this Government?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, as far as I am aware, Mr Mpombo made that statement in his personal capacity …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … and not as a representative of the Zambian Government. So, it is rather a moot issue, but we shall ask the civil servants to decide what to do about it. I think he is a well-known political commentator and, maybe, he is just having difficulty adjusting …

Hon. Opposition Member: Question!

The Vice-President: … to his new occupation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, will His Honour the Vice-President explain how he reconciles the statement of impartiality with the fact that the Government has appointed party cadres to positions such as District Commissioner (DC). Let me give examples of DCs in Sesheke, Mongu and Kalabo who are all party cadres, including others that I do not know. However, I know of these three …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Imenda: … districts that have party cadres as DCs.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, as I understand the code of ethics and the principle behind it, the point is not that you may not have political opinions and loyalties. In one’s personal existence, one can be as much of a cadre as, for example, Hon. Siliya who is nodding vigorously at my explanation. However, one should not behave as a party cadre when administrating Government policy.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, in relation to the first ministerial statement or is it a Presidential statement regarding the Access to Information Bill, I would like to find out what contentious issues are there that have delayed the presentation of this Bill for more than one year since the PF Government came into power.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not know the exact details. However, I know the broad outline which is that there are technical difficulties, which are not insurmountable. There are matters that need attention such as the Secrecy Act, which all hon. Ministers are sworn to. By the way, we can be informal. You can call me, Mr Minister, if you so wish, instead of Mr Vice-President.

Sir, there is the question of reconciling the need for secrecy with open access. For instance, it was found out in Britain that having a Freedom of Information Act led to meetings without minutes by Government officials because they could always be accessed by the general public through the Act. The only way to hide the contents of the meetings, therefore, was to have them without a record. We want to avoid such problems. This is what has been, as I understand it, holding up the process.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, we all know that false promises are the bedrock of the PF. The fulfillment of the promises is next to impossible.

Mr Speaker, the Zambian people are very thirsty for this Bill. What guarantee can His Honour the Vice-President give that the impediments that we have experienced will be removed and that come June this year, this Bill will definitely be presented in Parliament?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, due to the possibility of unforeseen factors, I cannot give the assurance that the hon. Member seeks.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, in his second ministerial statement, His Honour the Vice-President indicated that Mr Mpombo could have been reacting in his personal capacity. How is his personal capacity affecting the Government’s responsibilities?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am not sure that I understand the question. However, I know that most people have no difficulty distinguishing between their private persona and their public persona.

Apparently, Mr Mpombo was on leave at the time. He certainly was not talking in the name of the Government. The Government has no view on whether the MMD is sick, healthy, going places or disappearing down a hole. Mr George Mpombo was not, therefore, expressing the Government’s view.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, we all accept that civil servants are politically persuaded, one way or another. The point is that they have to adhere to the Civil Service rules. Mr Mpombo is not the first politician to be appointed in the Civil Service and, once appointed, he has to adhere to the rules. What action is the Government going to take against Mr Mpombo? Is the Government saying that from now onwards, all civil servants have the right to express their political opinion in public?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think that it is very strange to wake up in the morning,read an essay by Hon. Siliya and then answer the question which has been asked. She has written an essay in the Zambian Watchdog entitled “Have we noticed that Zambia is going to the dogs?”

Interruptions

Ms Siliya: On a point of procedure, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: So, you also read the ZambianWatchdog?

The Vice-President: It was a mistake. I typed “dog”…

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us have order! Hon. Vice-President, could you respond.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Code of Ethics which I quoted refers to the behaviour of employees in their professional capacity. It says:

“should not act in a way that is determined by political party culture and should not allow political views to determine any advice given or action taken.” This part of the ethics does not stop an individual from expressing his/her personal view. However, given some people’s readiness to mix up things, I think I may need to slip Mr Mpombo a note of advice,asking him to try to avoid confusing people when talking about certain issues.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Brig-Gen Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President stated that one of the provisions of the code of ethics for public servants stipulates that civil servants must work in support of the Government of the day. I would like to know when the PF Manifesto will be translated into Government policy so that civil servants can implement it.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the manifesto was circulated to all senior civil servants and diplomats right at the inception of this Government so that they could, first of all, read for themselves, particularly about our focus on the disadvantaged people in this country rather than the elite that sit like cream on top of coffee.

Also, the Cabinet and the hon. Deputy Ministers at work are translating the manifesto, on an almost daily basis, into policies, Acts, statutory instruments and so on and so forth.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, Bills are like the Constitution. You cannot transplant other countries’ constitutions into your country. What efforts are being made to ensure that the Freedom of Information Bill will not be transplanted from other countries, but will instead fit the Zambian environment?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this Bill, as I mentioned in the statement, has been drawn after a lot of consultation with the academia, lawyers, press freedom groups and so on and so forth. Therefore, you just have to trust that this Bill has received enough input from enough sources, to be a Zambian product and not simply one taken off the internet.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze central): Mr Speaker, the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the PF before it formed Government, used to condemn the MMD for failing to bring the Freedom of Information Bill to the House for debate, and a number of allegations were made against the MMD. One of them was that it was hiding certain intransigencies that were occurring in its Government.

I would like find out from His Honour the Vice-President what his Government is hiding. From the time the PF came into power, it has been promising to bring the Bill to Parliament. What is it hiding from the people of Zambia to know?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is nothing we are hiding.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: The hon. Member will be free to make his own applicationof the Act, hopefully this year, so that he can determine that there is nothing that we are hiding.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President appears to be putting the blame on the MMD for the delays in the Freedom of Information Bill being brought to this House. I would like to find out from him why the PF Government always wants to bring the MMD in its failures when it is unable to implement the promises it made on its own accord, bearing in mind that it has been in authority for close to two years now. Why blame the MMD all the time?

Hon. MMD Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I made a very brief reference to the MMD’s failure to bring this Bill into existence in the twenty years it was in power, as against the one-and-half years we have been in the Government. We are still in the process of bringing the Bill to the House. It is almost certain that it will be done this year. The MMD failed, in twenty years, to bring the Freedom of Information Bill to the House. I would have thought that was a subject worthy of a comment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

EVELYN HONE COLLEGE STUDENT DEATH

496. Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) what caused the death of a student at the Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce, on Tuesday, 19th February, 2013; and

(b) what measures the Government had taken to forestall further loss of life at the college and other public institutions of higher learning.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Professor Willombe): Mr Speaker, may I take this opportunity to congratulate Hon. Namulambe onhis appointment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila:Iyo naikala. Hear, hear!

Laughter

Professor Willombe: Sir, firstly, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Professor Willombe: … the Government regrets the death of a student at the Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce on Monday 18th February, 2013. He was admitted to the college as a first year student in January, 2013.

Mr Speaker, according to a report submitted by the management and records from the college clinic, the late student’s death was caused by malaria. Hehad presented himself to the clinic with malaria symptoms. To that effect, a malaria test was performed on the student …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Can we have order on the left!

The hon. Deputy Minister is hardly audible.

Professor Willombe: … and he tested positive to it. He was given anti-malaria drugs and put on observation. Unfortunately, he passed on on Monday, 18th February, 2013 as the college clinic was in the process of arranging to evacuate him to the University Teaching Hospital.

Sir, this is a regrettable incident and, as such, the Government has tasked the management of the institution to ensure that the health of students at the institution is treated as a priority to avoid any future occurrences of that nature. This entails ensuring that students are encouraged to seek early medical attention at the college clinic. This also applies to other higher institutions of learning. This is just but one regrettable incident. No other deaths have been recorded at the institution.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has indicated that …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me the opportunity to raise this point of order. Immediately I came into this House this afternoon, I checked where Hon. Miyutu sits, but could not see him. The two of us had agreed to raise a certain issue on the Floor of this House. The microphone has even been uprooted from where Hon. Miyutu sits.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, I also checked on your right hand side and still could not see him. I would like to know where the controversial hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central, who has been very critical of the PF Government, is. Where is he?

I would like to hear your serious ruling, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Livune: And Poniso!

Mr Mwiimbu: I hear even Hon. Poniso Njeulu, who rarely speaks in the House, is also not here.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: May I have your ruling, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Where are they?

Mr Speaker: Well, my response is that, unfortunately, I do not maintain their personal contacts.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: So, I am not able to tell where they are at the moment.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I am sure, in due course, you will know where they will be.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Sinda may continue, please.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has indicated that the late student died as a result of malaria. If that was the cause of death, why did the students protestand go on a class boycott, while urging management at the institution to fast-track the rehabilitation of the drainage and sanitation systems at the collegeimmediately after that incident? Could that confirm that the student did not die from malaria, but due to poor sanitation conditions at the college.

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, in the first instance, there is no report other than that from management and the clinic. The relatives of the deceased student declined to have a post-mortem conducted. As such, there was no other cause of death which was established than malaria. That is the only information we have.

Sir, the rehabilitation of the sanitation system is a continuous process which the institution carries out. The speed at which they did it this time is relative to the situation that was obtaining at the college.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, Zambia has been recognised worldwide for its efforts in the fight against malaria. I am aware that the Lusaka District Management Team (LDHMT), in conjunction with the Lusaka City Council (LCC), regularly carries out proven preventive measures against malaria such as indoor residual spraying. Can the hon. Minister indicate that this exercise does not encompass institutions of higher learning because this has not been done at the Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce.

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, in my response, I indicated that the student was diagnosed with malaria. Although he tested positive to malaria, it could be that the infection started long before he went to college because he was only there for a month. Therefore, the fact that he contracted malaria at the college or that it matured there does not have anything to do with the institution being outside the bracket of places that are sprayed. The college is sprayed inside and outside. However, this time around, it just happened that there was a death which had nothing to do with whether the institution was sprayed or not.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, most students come from very poor families and, in times of death, some families are unable to meet the funeral and burial expenses. How did the Government assist the family during the funeral up to the time of the burial?

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, the college actually assisted the family. It bought a coffin and also ferried the body to Sinda. The college also assisted in the process of laying the student to rest.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

RICE DISEASE IN LIUWA

497. Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a) whether the Government was aware of an outbreak of a rice disease in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency; and

(b) if so, what measures the Government had taken to contain the disease.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Mwewa): Mr Speaker, what was observed in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency was not an outbreak of a rice disease, but of pests, namely beetles. The situation was observed towards the end of January this year. The appearance of these beetles from time to time is triggered by changes in environmental conditions. It should be noted that the outbreak of these pests was not serious enough to cause any major economic losses to farmers in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency.

Sir, when the presence of these beetles was observed, the camp extension officer manning Libonda Camp sprayed the affected field with a chemical called Karat in order to eliminate the pests. This measure that was taken has since contained the situation.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what measures will be taken in future to prevent the re-appearance of the pests.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, the best preventive measure is spraying.However, we cannot just spray where there are no beetles. Officers only spray when they see the occurrence of beetles.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, when there is a pest invasion like this one, one would expect some kind of research to be carried out, as is normally the case with the red locusts. Has the Government decided to undertake some research to find out the breeding patterns and the weather conditions under which these beetles thrive in order to prevent another invasion?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, the Government undertook a study which revealed that beetles appear and attack the green leaves on the rice.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister inform this House how widespread this invasion of beetles is in the Western Province.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, this occurrence only happened in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency, specifically in Libonda. The economic loss is not much because we already sprayed the crops and the situation has been contained.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, on the basis of the studies that have been conducted so far, are these particular beetles endemic to specific places in the Western Province?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, the appearance of these pests, from time to time, is as a result of fluctuations in environmental conditions. We cannot specifically say that they will occur in a particular area, as the affected areas are sporadic.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

LIMULUNGA POLICE STATION

498. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Home Affairs when the Government would provide a motor vehicle to Mwinilunga Police Station for operations.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mrs Mwamba): Mr Speaker, Mwinilunga Police Station has a Toyota Hilux motor vehicle which is being used for security operations in the area but is, currently, undergoing routine maintenance.

Sir, the Government’s intention is to equip police officers and police stations with the necessary equipment, transport and other resources for them to conduct their operations effectively.

However, an additional motor vehicle will be provided for security operations in the area when the Government procures motor vehicles for operations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, we ask these questions in order to inform the Government of the situation on the ground. I have asked this particular question because I know that Mwinilunga Police Station has no vehicle for operations. The Toyota Hilux does not meet the demands of the terrain of the constituency. So, may I know when the constituency will have a vehicle that will be able to conduct operations in that area.

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, the Toyota Hilux has been working in Mwinilunga and it is undergoing routine maintenance. However, very soon,the Government willprocure vehicles such as the one the hon. Member for Mwinilunga Constituency desires for his police station. Those vehicles will be distributed accordingly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I just came back from Livingstone on Sunday. There is an ‘outbreak’ of police vehicles in Livingstone. Why does the Government not take one or two of those vehicles that are being used in Livingstone during the build-up to the by-election to Mwinilunga?

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central knows that there is no such thing as an outbreak of vehicles in any town.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, order!

The hon. Minister is responding.

Mrs Mwamba: If he has seen several vehicles in Livingstone, he should be the first one to understand why there are so many vehicles there. There was a security threat and the Government had to control the situation. That is why more vehicles and police officers were sent to keep vigil in the city to maintain law and order and peace.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the Toyota Hilux which is used for police operations in Mwinilunga is undergoing routine maintenance elsewhere. I suppose this place is outside Mwinilunga. Therefore, what mode of transport is the police in Mwinilunga using to execute its duties at the moment?

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, the Zambia Police Force is part of the Government. There are vehicles in other Government departments that they can be given to undertake operations should the need arise.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, the question is very simple and straightforward. The hon. Member of Parliament for Mwinilunga is asking when the new vehicles, which will be suitable for the terrain, will be sent to his constituency.

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure hon. Members that I will not stand on the Floor of the House, as an hon. Minister representing the Government, to tell them stories. What I have said is that the Government will soon procure vehicles for operations and distribute them accordingly. I cannot give the exact date because I do not have it on my fingertips.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister says that the Government is procuring vehicles which will be sent to various places once that is done. At what stage of the procurement process are we?

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, that question is quite valid, but I need time to go back and find out the stage at which we are with regard to procurement. I do not want to give false information.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

INFRASTRUCTURE IN LUBANSENSHI

499. Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) how much money was allocated to the development of infrastructure in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency in 2012;

(b) of the total allocation, how much money had actually been disbursed, by school and by project; and

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, before I give an answer to this specific question, because this situation also affects other hon. Members of Parliament, let me just put things in context. In December, 2012, the ministry disbursed about KR91 million to most of the districts in the country and this money was meant for the construction of new school projects, toilets as well as staff houses, as provided for in the 2012 Infrastructure Development Plan. Consequent to that disbursement, a total of KR880,000 was allocated to the development of infrastructure in Lubansenshi Constituency in 2012. This amount was actually disbursed to the district and was meant for the following projects at the schools named bellow:

School Project Allocation(KR)

Kuuta one 1x3 Classroom block   240,000
two double ventilated improved pit latrines
(VIPs)     50,000
one single VIP    20,000
one staff house   110,000

Fisonge two double VIPs    50,000
one single VIP   20,000
one staff house   110,000

Masonde two double VIPs   50,000
one single VIP   20,000
one staff house   110,000

Michelo two double VIPs 50,000

Lubansenshi two double VIPs 50,000

Mr Speaker, normally, when we circulate the Infrastructure Development Plan (IDP), the guidelines are at the end of that booklet. Some of the guidelines in the IDP are as follows:

(a) formation of a project management committee (PMC) which has supervisory authority on the projects that are implemented through the community mode;

(b) training members of a PMC in basic project management and accounting;

(c) intensifying monitoring and supervision of the project at the district level to ensure that procurement of materials is done according to the budget and in line with procurement guidelines; and

(d) keeping cheque books for projects in order to monitor the expenditure and ensuring that the money is spent on its intended purpose.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the answer that has been given by the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. However, my concern is that it appears that it has become practice to misappropriate funds meant for infrastructure development. Therefore, apart from the guidelines that the hon. Minister has read out, what specific practical measures is the Government taking to ensure that, indeed, every single ngwee is accounted for and used for its intended purpose in Lubansenshi Constituency?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, the ministry has an audit unit which goes round all the projects in the districts of the Republic of Zambia to ensure that the schools and district administration comply with the guidelines on the useof the money that is disbursed to them. Secondly, those that have read the Auditor-General’s Report know that there are issues that arise,relating to whether we were able to comply with the rules of spending public funds at the district level. I think that is the only way to ensure that money is spent on itsintended purpose, especially because the Auditor-General’s Office is an independent institution which provides an oversight role over the expenditure of the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. Further, the Office of the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) also intensifies monitoring of projects just to ensure that the money is spent accordingly.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, Luwingu District, in which Lubansenshi Constituency is, has very bad school infrastructure. This is also true for Lupososhi Constituency. Although we appreciate the KR80,000 that was disbursed, will we see an increase in the allocation to the district so that we deal with the issues of school infrastructure?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the issue of allocations is difficult to deal with because it all depends on what is allocated to the ministry for the whole programme. For example, there is only about KR389 million in the 2013 Budget. However, our direction in 2012, in line with the PF’s commitment, is to start dealing with some of the community schools or those that are thatched. When we circulate the IDP for 2013, hon. Members will see the commitment of this Government to start improving infrastructure in many of the community schools, including the construction of some houses and VIPs.

Sir, we also plan to start phased rehabilitation of some old secondary schools. Therefore, whether money will be increased or not, is a very difficult question to answer. However, I can assure hon. Members that we, as a Government and ministry, are committed to addressing most of the challenges that we face through a phased approach. We are going to deal with the infrastructural challenges in Luwingu and many other parts of this country.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTITUTION-MAKING PROCESS

500. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Justice:

(a) how much money would be spent on the Constitution-making process at the end of the exercise; and

(b) on what specific activities the money would be spent.

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, it is expected that KR115 million will have been spent by the time the exercise is completed. This amount does not include the cost of holding the referendum, as that activity falls outside the mandate of the Technical Committee on Drafting the Constitution and is yet to be budgeted for when an appropriate referendum commission is constituted. The money will be spent on various activities as follows:

Activity Amount (KR)

2012

General Administration 35,260,452,261.64

District Consultative Fora 17,973,056,100.00

Provincial Constitution Conventions 8,294,855,108.00

Purchase of Equipment 1,753,873,095.00

Printing of Report, First Draft Constitution and other documents 14,545,924,820.92

Total Expenditure 77,828,161,385.56

2013

General Administration 13,230,317.20

Provincial Constitution Convention 6,192,585.40

National and Sector Group Convention 5,147,428.00

Printing of Report, Final Draft Constitution and other documents 12,601,508.00

Total Expenditure 37,171,838.60

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the answer given by the hon. Minister. However, can he confirm that we shall be able to hold a referendum once the Draft Constitution has been completed, by the end of June, 2013, as indicated by the ministry.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kabimba, SC.): Mr Speaker, our manifesto makes it very clear that there will be a referendum. However, this is going to depend on the format of the Draft Constitution that is going to be submitted by the Technical Committee on the Drafting of the Constitution.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, when will the national convention be held in this country?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the administration of the district and national conventions are dependent on the programme of the Technical Committee on the Drafting of the Constitution. So, they will be able to advise us as soon as they are ready for the exercise.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, has money for holding a referendum been budgeted for? Further, in which year is the referendum expected to be held?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the whole exercise and programme of the Constitution-making process has been budgeted for by the Government. So, the hon. Member for Zambezi West should have no apprehension at all about the exercise.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, this is worrying. If the Government is going to depend on the Technical Committee on the Drafting of the Constitution to decide when to do things, does it mean that the Government did not set a timeframe?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I said that the administration of the programme is within the mandate of the Technical Committee on the Drafting of the Constitution. However, we have stated before this House that the Draft Constitution will be submitted, according to the Technical Committee on the Drafting of the Constitution’s programme, by 30th June, 2013. So, we are monitoring how the Technical Committee on the Drafting of the Constitution is administering the programme.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, there is a general feeling that five years will elapse without the PF coming up with a Constitution because it is afraid of the 50 per cent Plus One Majority Win and Running Mate clauses. Can the hon. Minister assure the Zambian people that this Constitution will be in place before the end of five years.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, for the first time in the history of this country, the Constitution-making process is being driven by the people of Zambia, and we have left the mandate of this programme in the hands of the Technical Committee on the Drafting of the Constitution. That is not to say that we shall go up to five years without a new Constitution. I do not think so. I think there will be a new Constitution before the end of the first term of the PF because we are coming for the second term.

Interruptions

Mr Kabimba, SC.: We shall certainly have it in place.

As to the issues of the 50 per cent Plus One Majority Win, …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Give the hon. Minister anopportunity to respond.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: … and Running Mate clauses, we will leave them to the people of Zambia to decide.

That is what we mean when we say that this process is going to be people-driven. However, there is a caveat on that, ...

Mr Livuneinterjected.

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Hon. Government Member:Nakolwa!

Interruptions

Mr Kabimba: … which says that this process will be driven by the people of Zambia and nobody else. As a Government, we owe it to our people to ensure that the process is not interfered with, at any stage, by any outside forces.

Mr Speaker, I, therefore, would like to make it very clear that those who think that we are going to import a constitution from another country or be influenced by a constitution from another country have got it wrong. Our Government shall ensure that the aspirations and values of the Zambian people, and nobody else’s, are enshrined in the Constitution.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

NATIONAL TECHNOLOGY BUSINESS CENTRE

501. Dr Kazonga asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) what major projects the National Technology Business Centre (NTBC) implemented between October, 2011, and September, 2012;

(b) what the cost of implementing the projects was; and

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, the following were some of the research projects that the NTBC handled during October, 2011 to September, 2012:

Mbwama Enterprises

The project involved the development and commercialisation of the bao drink from the Baobab fruit). The project involves the extraction of Baobab fruit pulp to produce the bao drink, which is one of its kind in Zambia. The procurement of processing equipment is underway and the pilot plant will be set up at our incubation facility once construction works are completed.

Mendez Hand Sanitiser

The project involved the development and improvement of a locally-produced hand sanitiser. This is a very useful product that has great potential to reduce the spread of contagious diseases, especially at large gatherings like funerals where people shake hands.

Medical Shaker

The project involved the reverse engineering of the orbital shaker (based on an expired patent). The original prototype is in use at Ndola Central Hospital (NCH) while an improved version is earmarked to be tested at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH).

Auto-pot

The project involved the development of an automated industrial cooking pot that has the potential for use in boarding schools, hospitals and colleges.

Kwatembo

The project was about the development of Zambia’s dance syllabus for schools. It is an initiative to help preserve the country’s culture.

Mr Speaker, the implementation cost of each project was as follows:

Projects Cost (KR)    Remark

Bao Drink 650.00  This is a pilot project, which is to be set up at our incubation facility once construction works are completed.

Mendez Hand Sanitiser Nil Only logistical planning was undertaken. We are yet to engage the promoter for execution of the project. This is a useful product, especially at large gatherings, where there is a lot of contact through handshakes.

Medical Shaker 6, 924.37 This improved version is earmarked for testing and use at the UTH.

Auto-pot 7,700.00 This project will be piloted at
Chankwankwa Foods Limited.

Kwatembo Dance Syllabus 925.00 Plans for putting up a dance business incubation centre.

Mr Speaker, as regards the role that the NTBC played in staff development in research institutions in the country, the answer is as follows:

(a) Establishment of Technology Transfer Offices – For the NTBC to facilitate and promote the commercialisation of technologies from research and development institutions as well as individual researchers and transfer them to the users, that is industry, it is working with research and development institutions to establish technology transfer offices (TTOs), which will promote technology transfer and commercialisation of research products. Through consultations with various stakeholders, it has been discovered that in creating an enabling environment on which these TTOs can be modelled, it is cardinal that institutions formulate institutional intellectual property policies that will guide the process of establishing TTOs.

So far, the following institutions have been identified and engaged in this programme:

(i) Copperbelt University (CBU)-NTBC – has signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) withCBU;

(ii) Zambia Agriculture Research Institute (ZARI)-NTBC – assisted ZARI with the development of the draft Institutional Intellectual Property (IP) policy. The draft MoU and concept note has been forwarded to the institution;

(iii) University of Zambia (UNZA) – the concept note on the establishment of TTOs has been submitted; and

(iv) National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR) – the concept note on collaborative partnership was developed and the draft MoUawaits signing.

(b) Collaborative Partnerships between Research and Development institutions and Industry:

The NTBC has introduced the Technology Audit and Validation Programme which goes out into the industry to take stock of technologies being utilised in the industry as well as evaluating their impacts on the environment. Through this programme, the NTBC tries to link findings in the industry to the Research and Development institutions so as to enhance collaboration and joint research; and

The TIRC is an establishment of the NTBC. It was established to help meet the centre’s challenge to provide leverage for the formation of businesses that involve innovative and efficient products and services generated mainly from research. The resource centre is solely owned and run by the NTBC. Its key objective is to provide entrepreneurs and innovators with technological information in order to facilitate commercialisation and technology transfer.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I am sure that that answer has broken a record.

Laughter

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I followed the answer keenly. In one year, the NTBC was able to implement some projects such as the production of baodrink, the autopot and so on and so forth. What is the Government doing, through this ministry, to ensure that this important information is disseminated to the people of Zambia?

Professor Willombe: Mr Speaker, there is a programme for that, and we have increased funding for the institution.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

CANALS IN NCHELENGE

502. Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) when the Government would provide a dredger and more funding forclearing the canals in Nchelenge District;

(b) when the two barges for use on Lake Mweru to access the islands would be provided; and

(i) Nchelenge;
(ii) Kashikishi;
(iii) Isokwe;
(iv) Chisenga; and
(v) Kilwa.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr M. H Malama): Mr Speaker, the procurement of dredgers by the Government is an on-going programme. In the 2013 Budget, the ministry allocated KR12,900,000 for the purchase of two dredging machines; one for the Western Province and the other for Luapula Province. Normally, the provincial administration will decide which districts to give priority after the Technical Committee’s assessment. Therefore, this year, the provincial administration in Luapula Province will decide whether to send the dredger to Nchelenge or Lunga District. The ministry is aware of many areas and districts which require dredgers and this includes Nchelenge District. Therefore, the ministry will consider budgeting for dredgers in 2014 and future budgets until the need is met.

Mr Speaker, there is a provision in the 2013 Budget for the procurement of two barges.

Mr Speaker, KR180,000 has been allocated in the 2013 Budget for the construction of docking bays. However, the money is inadequate and can only cater for the construction of two docking bays. Therefore, the provincial administration will advise on which one of the five locations will be given priority. The other areas may be considered in the 2014 and future budgets. The Technical Committee on the Drafting of the Constitution in the ministry is in the process of engaging the provincial administration in the respective provinces on the identification of priority areas to be worked on. Therefore, some of the highlighted docking bays, that is, Nchelenge, Kashikishi, Isokwe, Chisenga and Kilwa could be among those to be considered once the assessment is carried out.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that water transport in this country and the world over is the cheapest form of transport and, if promoted, can help our people greatly in terms of movement. Governments have come and gone and they have all lamentably failed to promote water transport. May I know what has been hindering them.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, I do not concur with the statistics of Hon. Chisala. However, as regards the failure of past governments to provide water transport, I cannot answer that. Nevertheless, I can assure him that we are going to do it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that he was going to procure two dredgers. When should we expect the two dredgers he mentioned for Luapula and Western provinces?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, could Hon. Mufalali repeat his question.

Mr Speaker: Order!

His question is: When will the two dredgers be procured?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, we have already started the procurement process. We know exactly where we are going to get the dredgers from and we have the quotations so that we can proceed with the procurement.

I thank you, Sir.

MODERN MARKET IN KAZUNGULA

503. Mr Livune (Katombola) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when the Government would build a modern market in Kazungula District.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kufuna): Mr Speaker, the construction of modern markets requires high capital investment. However, due to the limited budgetary provisions for markets over the past years, including the 2013 Annual Budget, the Government does not have immediate plans for the construction of a modern market in Kazungula District this year.

Nevertheless, the Government has continued soliciting funding from co-operating partners to assist in the construction of modern markets and bus stations countrywide. It is also encouraging the private sector to enter into public-private partnerships (PPPs) in infrastructure development for municipal service delivery, which includes modern bus stations and markets.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, Kazungula is a border town and a new district. Would it not be in the interest of the Government to ensure that there is a market befitting the status of a border town, especially that we are next to Kasane which has better facilities than Kazungula?

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, since the construction of Kazungula Market was not considered in this year’s Budget, it will be considered in the next Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, may I find out what has happened to the Danish International Development Agency (DANIDA) which is one of the partners in the ministry. Has it stopped funding the construction of modern markets? If it is still funding, why not consider Kazungula for that funding?

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Tembo): Mr Speaker, DANIDA is a co-operating partner that always comes on board in trying to supplement the Government’s efforts. So, if DANIDA approaches us next time, we will try to consider the construction of the market in Kazungula. We have taken note of that. My hon. Deputy Minister has actually …

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

It is a slip of the tongue. There is no hierarchy of Deputy Ministers.

Laughter

Mr Tembo: Exactly, that was a slip of a tongue.

Sir, in his answer, my colleague, the hon. Deputy Minister, has already stated that we will consider that in next year’s Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the PF Government has no capacity to build a modern market at Kazungula.

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I find it difficult to answer such questions because the Government has already shown capacity by constructing markets in some parts of the country. Therefore, we have the capacity to construct markets around the country. It is only the resource envelope which is not adequate enough.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, the Deputy Minister, Hon. Kufuna, was clear that there was no money to build modern markets. However, among the promises, which are being made by hon. Cabinet Ministers, as they are campaigning in Livingstone, is that they are going to build a modern market in Livingstone.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Dr Kaingu: It is clear that there is no money to build modern markets.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ask your question, hon. Member.

Dr Kaingu: Where will the Government get the money to build a modern market in Livingstone?

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that money for the construction of capital projects is not only sourced from the Government, but also co-operating partners. However, for the Livingstone Market, which is under construction, the money was budgeted for.

I thank you, Sir.

MOOMBA LOCAL COURT IN KAZUNGULA

504. Mr Livune asked the Minister of Justice when a Local Court Magistrate would be posted to Moomba Local Court in Kazungula District.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, recruitment of staff is ongoing, as there are a number of local courts countrywide that need to be staffed. The Judiciary has advertised for the recruitment of staff for Moomba and other courts in the Southern Province. By May, 2013, Moomba will have the necessary staff if suitably qualified personnel respond to the advertisement.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, suppose no suitable people will apply by that date, what plans does the Government have to mitigate that problem which is at Moomba Local Court because the man who was there retired a long time ago and there is a vacuum? Justice delayed …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Your question is complete.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, if we are unable to get staff by that date, we will try to second some staff from the headquarters or Livingstone.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande(Kasempa): Mr Speaker, within Kazungula, at Chief Musokotwane’s area, there is a local court which has been completed, but is not being used. What could be the reason it is not being used?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I do not have the answer at the moment, but I can only speculate that, maybe, it is due to lack of staff. However, if that is posed as a question, we can come back to the House with an appropriate response.

I thank you, Sir.

TOWNSHIP ROADS IN MUMBWA

505. Brig-Gen Dr Chituwo asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) when the rehabilitation of township roads in Mumbwa District would be completed;

(b) whether the project would be completed within the contract period; and

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, …

Mr V. Mwale: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, many times, you have guided this House that hon. Members of Parliament ought to be present in the House when business is going on.

Sir, last week, the hon. Chief Whip wrote a circular, advising us to be present in the House all the time to transact business like you have always guided. Is the Leader of Government Business in the House, with his Cabinet except for three, in order to be absent from this House at a critical time when we are raising a number of important national issues like lack of mealie-meal and many other problems that we are facing? Are they in order to be absent from this House and not attend to the Business of the House and Questions?

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The absence of the front row on my right is regrettable. I have no explanation for the absence and I do not want to reiterate what I have stated before. I am also aware that a circular which was referred to by the hon. Member for Chipangali was actually circulated and has been a subject of press publicity. All I can say is that sooner than later, we should see a difference in attendance.

The hon. Deputy Minister can continue.

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of the township roads in Mumbwa District have been estimated for completion before the onset of the rainy season this year.

Interruptions

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, the project is currently running outside the original performance period approved by the ministry and the contractor has applied for an extension.

Sir, the delay has been attributed to the following:

(a) Site Conditions – there was a serious issue of encroachment on the road reserve by both private and communal property. The presence of illegal traders and abandoned structures posed a challenge as the council found difficulties in removing these structures;

(b) Relocation of Public Utility Lines – the lack of drawings for the public utility lines caused some pipes to be damaged and had to be fixed before continuing with the works;

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Senanga in order to take pictures in the House with his I-pad?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I was not looking in that direction at the time. Assuming that what you are saying is correct, then the hon. Member is certainly out of order. I have assistants in this House. I am sure you can all see their reaction. Let us continue our business as they do their work.

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Sir, the third cause of delay was:

(c) Material Constraints – the contractor faced a constraint of fuel shortage during the first few months of the start of the contract. The bitumen for use on the project was also in short supply. Consequently, the contractor had to request for the use of alternative, but acceptable bitumen …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was talking about the third cause of the delay in the completion of rehabilitation works for the township roads in Mumbwa District, whichis that of material constraints; and

(d) Variations on Quantities – drainage quantities had to be revised, thereby requiring extra time for the topographical survey designs of the drainage structures.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Deputy Minister should revisit his response to part (a)of the Question. It is worrying to hear him say that the project will be completed before the onset of the rainy season. That answer would have been more acceptable if it were given before the start of the current rainy season and not the upcoming one.

Sir, what measures has the Government put in place in case the contractor is unable to complete the project in the stated time?

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, when answering the question, I meant to say that the project would be completed before the next rainy season.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, if the contractor fails to do the works, the Government will impose liquidated damages on the contractor so that the contractor pays for not honouring the contract. Contracts are supposed to be completed within a specific timeframe. Once this is not done, the contractor is surcharged and is supposed to pay for that time lapse.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that the contractor asked for an extension of time and the ministry has since granted this request. May he tell the House and the nation at large when the next contract is expected to come to an end.

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, I said that the works would be completed before the beginning of the next rainy season. To be specific, the works will be done by the end of August this year.

I thank you, Sir.

NAMUSHAKENDE/NALIKWANDA ROAD

506. Professor Lungwangwa asked the Minister of Finance when the K1 billion allocated to the construction of the Namushakende/Nalikwanda Road in the 2012 Budget would be disbursed.

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Sichinga) (on behalf oftheMinister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda)): Mr Speaker, KR1 million was disbursed to the Provincial Administration of the Western Province in September, 2012 and has been retained by the provincial administration for the purpose of ensuring that this road is worked on. The information that the ministry has is that the work on the road could not be started last year because the equipment, which has been allocated to the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) in the area, was still working in Sesheke and Lukulu districts, which is still the case at the moment.

The work in Sesheke and Lukulu districts is due to be completed in a few weeks’ time. As soon as that has been done, the equipment will be demobilised and moved so that it can be usedfor roads such as the Namushakende/Nalikwanda Road. The funding for works on the road in question is already with the provincial administration.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

ZAMBIAN DELEGATION TO LONDON OLYMPICS

507. Mr Kunda (Muchinga) asked the Minister of Youth and Sport:

(a) how many people constituted the Zambian delegation to the London Olympics in July, 2012 in the following categories:

(i) participants;

(ii) coaches; and

(iii) officials; and

(b) how much money was spent on:

(i) the participants; and

(ii) the entire delegation.

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Masumba): Mr Speaker, the entire delegation, at the London Olympics, in July, 2012, was made up ofabout twenty people and this included the participants, coaches and officials.

Mr Speaker, among the participants, three were athletes, two were boxers, one was a judoka and one was a swimmer. The Zambian team comprised two female and five male ‘athletees’.

Hon. Members: Athletes!

Mr Masumba: Our mother tongue is different. We cannot all have the same pronunciations.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Deputy Minister, continue.

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, we had eight coaches for the sporting disciplines we participated in and four coaches for athletics. Two were for 100 m and the other two were for 800 m races. In swimming, we had two coaches while in judo and boxing we had one coach each.

Sir, we had nine officials and these comprised the hon. Minister, the Permanent Secretary (PS), the Chief Sports Development Officer (CSDO), the President for National Olympic Committee of Zambia (NOCZ), the Secretary-General for NOCZ, the team doctor, two physiotherapists and an executive officer from the Ministry of Youth and Sport.

Sir, the Government gave a grant of KR327,000 to the NCOZ to cater for air fares and other needs, broken down as follows:

Item Amount (KR)

Per Diem 125,000

Air Tickets 112,000

Miscellaneous 90,000

Total 327,000

Sir, the sum of about KR202,165 was spent on the officials, broken down as follows:

Item Amount (KR)

Per Diem 60,730

Air Tickets 101,435

Contingency 40,000

Total 202,165

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that there were twenty delegates that included the officials, coaches and participants while the hon. Ministersaid that seven were participants, eight coaches and nine officials. That adds up to twenty-four delegates. Can the hon. Minister clarify that.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister used the word ‘about’.

Interruptions

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, I thank you for following my response very well.

Interruptions

Mr Masumba: Sir, I was not specific. I actually used the word ‘about’.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, how can we have nine officials escorting seven participants? Is that prudent use of resources?

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, issues pertaining to sports require a lot of moral support. Secondly, we had different disciplines of sport. Each discipline required a representative. There is no way we can let participants go unaccompanied by supporters. I do not think that is possible.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lt-Gen Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact in Zambia that we had a wonderful runner, who was also a record holder, called Muleya. He went on to break a world record, but was just accompanied by only one coach. How come, today, we are carrying so many people, but are not breaking any world records?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, the PF Government should not do things the way the MMDGovernment did them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chishiba (Kafulafuta): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to refer to the MMD era when the hon. Member who asked the question was talking about Mr Muleyawho broke the record long before the MMD came on the scene?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: As the hon. Minister continues to respond to questions, he will take that into account.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chishiba: … I would like to hear the hon. Minister’s comments on the benefit Zambia drew from such participation.

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, the PF Government is trying to ensure that it brings the youths on board. In the past, …

Hon. Government Member: Under the MMD.

Mr Masumba: … the MMD …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: … thought the only way to create employment opportunities was to specifically employ people in offices and so on and so forth. However, this Government is trying to incorporate the youths into various activities which include sport. This is because our understanding is that God has given us different gifts altogether. Others have a gift of boxing, karate and other sporting disciplines. Therefore, these people can only be motivated if they are given an opportunity to feature in international events like the London Olympics. Otherwise, it would not augur well if there was an international event and our youths did not take part. Whether they lose the games, we are compelled, as a Government, to ensure that our presence is felt at these events because it is our responsibility.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: And the issue of the sports person, Mr Muleya, and the MMD?

Hon. Opposition Members: Just apologise.

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, I have taken note of that point of order and the only thing that I can say is that, in fact, at that particular time, I was not even born.

Laughter

Mr Masumba:That is why I thought that it was during the MMD era. So, I withdraw that statement.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Very well.

___________

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE BANK OF ZAMBIA (Amendment) Bill, 2013

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock(Mr Sichinga)(on behalf of the Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda)): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, the Bank of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2013, which is before this august House, seeks to amend the Bank of Zambia Act, Cap. 360 of the Laws of Zambia. This is in order to strengthen the system of recording and monitoring of the Balance of Payments. The amendment also seeks to provide, in law, the basis that will allow for the strengthening of the framework of determining interest rates by financial institutions in Zambia.

Sir, over the past ten years, Zambia has consistently posted positive macro-economic developments, including an increase in foreign direct investment (FDI), strong and sustained economic growth, relatively low exchange rates, stability as well as single digit inflation rates. In order to illustrate this, I wish to give the following information. Between 2007 and 2012, Zambia registered economic growth rates of 6.2, 5.7, 6.4, 7.6, 6.8 and 7.3 per cent respectively. Over this same period, the annual inflation rates were as follows:

Year Inflation Rate

2007  8.9
2008  16.9
2009  9.9
2010  7.9
2011 6.9

Sir, the external sector has also performed favourably, with the country recording current account surpluses. However, these positive developments, particularly the current account surpluses, have not translated into higher revenue collections and enhanced foreign exchange inflows into the economy.

Mr Speaker, the Bill seeks to amend the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) Act so as to provide the legal basis for strengthening of the system for recording and monitoring of Balance of Payment statistics. The Government expects a strengthened recording and monitoring system to improve the quality and comprehensiveness of the country’s Balance of Payment statistics, thereby supporting the Government’s efforts to enhance macro-economic management. By strengthening the reporting and recording of exports and imports, the amendment will also contribute to efforts to enhance Government revenues as well as the stability of the exchange rate through enhanced foreign exchange inflows.

Sir, the need to strengthen the recording of financial flows in and out of the economy is in line with the international community’s response to the recent financial crisis which has raised global focus on the need to enhance systems for capturing information on financial flaws. The availability of credible statistics on these flaws will inform the Government of potential dangers to the economy and provide an early opportunity for it to take prompt and informed corrective measures. Currently, the compilation of the Balance of Payment statistics is based on the good will of the exporters in providing the necessary information. Any assertion that seeks to introduce exchange controls is ill-founded, as exporters will retain unfettered excess to their earnings.

Mr Speaker, the second part of the Bill relates to interest rates and other charges by the financial service providers.

Sir, in the early 1990s, the Government undertook major financial sector reforms, including the liberalisation of the foreign exchange market and interest rates. The liberalisation of the financial system led to a proliferation of both domestic and foreign private financial institutions in Zambia. With the liberalisation of the financial sector, the pricing of banking services was left to the discretion of individual banks with the expectation that competition would force the banks to price their services, including credit, competitively.

Mr Speaker, as I have already indicated, with the attainment of macroeconomic stability, the inflation rate declined to 6.9 per cent in February, 2012. Despite these positive developments, lending rates have remained high, an issue that has been of great concern to the customers of the banks and the Government. Between 2007 and 2012, the average commercial bank lending rates were 24.4, 26.9, 29.2, 23.6 and 16.1 per cent, respectively. For non-banking financial institutions, lending rates were significantly higher. Some were as high as 20 per cent per month, translating to an annual rate of well over 200 per cent per month.

Hon. Members may wish to note that the BoZ has, in the recent past, taken measures aimed at reducing the high lending rates in the country such as reduction of the statutory reserve and core liquid asset ratios in 2011. In 2012, the Government took further steps by reducing the corporate tax rate for banks from 40 per cent to 35 per cent.

Sir, besides the rates being high, the pricing structure of the banks is also opaque and not transparent. The BoZ has, for a long time, engaged the commercial banks to come up with measures that would lower the cost of credit. In 2012, the bank introduced the Bank of Zambia Policy Rate to serve as the uniform base rate for all banks in order to promote transparency in loan pricing. Since these measures were introduced, interest rates have trended downwards although they are still high for investment in most projects with long-gestation periods and for small and medium-scale enterprises.

Mr Speaker, the persistently high interest rates are a manifestation of a market failure, warranting intervention by the regulator to restore confidence in the market, promote fair play and protect the public interest. The proposed amendment, therefore, seeks to provide the legal basis rather than depend on goodwill which has, so far, not been forthcoming for the BoZ to prescribe the maximum rate of interest and other charges that the financial service provider may impose on a banking transaction in support of price and financial-system stability.

I, therefore, wish to urge the hon. Members to support this Bill, as it is intended to strengthen the country’s economic management system.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, your Committee considered the Bank of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2013 referred to it on Wednesday, 20th February, 2013.

Mr Speaker, the objects of the Bill are to provide for:

(a) the monitoring of the Balance of Payments;

(b) the prescription of interest and other charges that financial service providers may impose on transactions; and

Mr Speaker, having considered the submissions by various stakeholders, your Committee recommends that there is a need to enhance monitoring of foreign exchange inflows and outflows. However, the wording in the Bill, particularly the use of the term “regulating”, has raised fears among stakeholders that this Bill is meant to re-introduce foreign exchange controls. In particular, the Bill reads that the bank may regulate and monitor foreign exchange inflows and outflows and amounts remitted.

Mr Speaker, most stakeholders understood the term “foreign exchange regulation” to mean the same as foreign exchange control. No distinction was made between the words “regulate” and “control”.

Your Committee supports, in principle, the need to monitor Balance of Payments, but urges the Government to consider revising the wording by replacing the words “regulate” in the Bill with any other term that does not create the impression that exchange controls are about to be introduced. The exchange rate is the prize of foreign currency. Price controls are bad and your Committee will not support foreign exchange controls. If the foreign exchange regulations were to be targeted at the mining sector, there would be no need to widen the net to include individuals remitting small amounts for foreign exchange transactions such as paying for school fees, buying second-hand vehicles, travel expenses and so on and so forth.

Sir, since your Committee observes that the Government did not undertake widespread consultation with all the stakeholders in the private sector regarding the amendment of the Bank of Zambia Act, it strongly recommends that the Government undertakes widespread consultation with stakeholders, especially those in the private sector, on important matters of public policy such as this one. Major stakeholders such as the Zambia Association of Manufacturers, the Zambian National Farmers Union, the Tourism Council of Zambia and the Chamber of Mines were all not consulted before tabling the Bill in Parliament. Without taking them on board, investment and foreign currency inflows to Zambia will drop.

Mr Speaker, your Committee observes that prescribing interest rates may have adverse effects on the sectors such as agriculture that Zambia hoped to promote. This is because agriculture had historically been regarded as a high risk sector by banks and attracted high interest rates. Therefore, the prescription of the maximum lending rate may only motivate banks to shift resources available for lending to less risky sectors such as trading.

Mr Speaker, we all want interest rates to come down. However, the route taken to prescribe or fix them without consulting the banks and taking into account supply and demand factors will backfire. Your Committee notes the good intention that the Government may have.However, it urges the Government to address general challenges that certain sectors may face with the new legislation.

Further, your Committee observes that the penalty of 3 million penalty units or K550 million in the old currency is too high, especially for individuals and small and medium enterprises. For instance, it would be unfair for a person who transfers money to pay for school fees abroad without the BoZ clearance to be fined K550 million or jailed for five years. Your Committee thinks this penalty is excessive. In this regard, it strongly recommends that the Government revises the penalty downwards.

Subject to the foregoing, your Committee, while appreciating the intentions of the Government on the amendment to the Bill, recommends that the proposed Bank of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2013 be deferred to allow the Government more time for consultation with the stakeholders on the foreign exchange regulations as well as prescription of interest rates before tabling it, again, in Parliament.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I thank all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee for their valuable input in the work of the Committee. I also thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording your Committee the opportunity to consider the Bill. Your Committee is also thankful to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia for the services rendered to it.

I thank you, Sir.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, although it is unconventional for me to stand up and open debate, I think that to save the hon. Members on the other side the trouble of knocking on an open door, I should say what our present position is. After reading the wonderful report of the Committee, which I commend, through the Chairperson, there are some ideas that we are inclined to agree on the subject, of course, to the technicalities that may intrude.

Sir, we are not of the view that the amendment should be withheld because it has been telegraphed and discussed for more than a year now. Everybody knew it was coming and people have been consulting. The hon. Minister of Finance, the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, and I have also been consulting with people. The mining companies and farmers have also been to see us. Further, your Committee’s own sittings were a part of the consultative process, indirectly, between the Government and the private sector. So, we feel that the consultation has been adequate.

Sir, as far as the interest rates are concerned, we are open to any additional measures that need to be taken on board or are so effective that they can replace the terms of price control on interest rates, which is what it amounts to.Then, we are willing to entertain them. However, to simply allow this kalobaculture in our commercial banks, whereby some pharmaceutical companies can raise their prices by 100 per cent, …

Hon. Opposition Member: What is kaloba?

The Vice-President: Do you want me to translate the word kaloba? It is a form of credit given traditionally in Zambia, which usually attracts a 100 per cent interest a month. So, it is a bit of an exaggeration to say that our commercial banks are practising kaloba, but I am just showing off my knowledge of the informal sector, Mr Speaker, with your indulgence.

Mr Speaker, we think that the interest rate regime is strangling Zambian enterprises. At the risk of repeating an example that I may have used on previous occasions, Amok Mundia, who employs 5,000 Chinese workers in Shanghai, says that he cannot set up a business in Zambia because of the interest rates. He says that the interest rate is the only factor. He says that all this theorising about work culture and other things is irrelevant. What matters is that you would be working for the bank and, ultimately, you have to give your business to the bank as collateral. I think that it has to be tackled, clumsily though it might be, and we have been tackling it informally, setting up these curbs. In fact, the lending rates came down last year. So, I would like the House to indulge us on lending rates. We have been telegraphing it and speaking about it for too long. More consultation is not the answer to this issue.

Sir, when it comes to the monitoring of foreign exchange flows, I note, and it has been put to me by the many people I have consulted, that we should make it very clear, as the Acting hon. Minister has done, that this is about monitoring, and not regulation. I understand the logic in which somebody looks at the word “regulate” next to “foreign exchange” and concludes that “regulate” equals “control”. So, this is all looking like foreign exchange controls. After seeing this report, we agreed that the word “regulate” should be replaced, although we have not decided on which word to replace it with. Let us give ourselves enough time, next week, and bring the next reading back on Thursday or even Friday to make sure that we bring amendments that will satisfy everybody.

Sir, I know that the Committee wants us to substitute another word for “regulate” but, actually, it looks pretty good even if you just take the word out and put “monitor” because we are talking about monitoring, and this is monitoring from a point of view of being able to square up people’s tax returns with their actual economic performance, especially in the export sector. We want to know that what we are taxing people is correct and that the money going, for example, to Mauritius or somewhere else offshore is not evading the Zambian tax net. That is what we are trying to get a hold on, which is why the hon. Minister talked about the way revenues have not risen despite the gross domestic product (GDP) going up steadily. So, on all those issues, we are either pleading justification or conceding. I, therefore, urge this House not to make us tarry more over these issues, but to get on with the job and finish it. It is now seventeen months since we came into power, and the Foreign Exchange Monitoring Act has been under discussion for more than a year.

With those few words, Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Bill before the House. I also thank His Honour the Vice-President for the clarification that he has made, although I think that we also need to put our position across.

Sir, I am a Member of your Committee. Therefore, I am going to speak in support of what the Chairperson has said.

Mr Speaker, the first point I want to make is that of all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee, the only people who supported this Bill were those employed in the public sector. Obviously, they supported it because they were worried about their jobs and salaries, and not because they were convinced about its necessity. As for those in the private sector, they totally rejected it, saying that they had not been consulted. They said that if implemented in its current form, it would take Zambia back to those unfortunate and sad days when, to buy foreign exchange, you had to go and kneel before an official. So, in my personal capacity, I cannot support this Bill in its current form.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the public officers who came were asked what mischief they were trying to correct. The answer was that they were suspicious of the activities of the mining sector. They thought that the mining companies were hiding foreign exchange and under-declaring their income for tax purposes. That surprised me because two or three years ago, we heard many statements from our colleagues that side to the effect that they were going to impose the windfall tax. With the windfall tax, there is no room for anyone to be in doubt about the amount of tax due. It is just a question of finding out what the price is, what the quantities exported are and get the revenue out of which you calculate the tax. However, until now, they have not imposed that tax but, instead, now want to impose regulations and controls, leaving one to wonder whether the Government actually knows what it wants to do.

This Bill, as it stands, cannot just be considered to be aimed at the mining sector. It is very wide in coverage and affects all of us. Let me just read out one excerpt on the powers that we are supposed to give to the BoZ:

“the Bank of Zambia will be empowered to monitor and regulate foreign exchange inflows and outflows and also the amounts to be remitted.”

The Bill also talks about empowering the BoZ to monitor and regulate imports and exports, international transfers in services such as school fees, medical fees and buying books. If this cannot be considered to be foreign exchange control, then, I do not know what foreign exchange control is. If this House empowers the BoZ to monitor and regulate imports and exports, that is exchange control. If we empower the BoZ to monitor and regulate payment for services, that is exchange control. There is no doubt about that.

Sir, the officials were asked what the motivation of the Bill was and why they were being so drastic about monitoring and regulating everyone when the target was the mining sector. The answer was that we should not worry because when it came to implementation, the Government would be very soft about it.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, how can you have a law that is so drastic and stringent and leave it to the implementing officials, whether it is the hon. Minister, the Central Bank Governor or whoever it is, to be soft? I do not believe that to be right. If it was about monitoring, then, the Bill must have specified that all it sought to do was facilitate monitoring. Looking at the way it has been cast, there is no question about the fact that this is exchange control, just as I have indicated in some of the points I have raised. Today, we are hon. Ministers and hon. Members of Parliament but, five years from now, we will not be. So, are we going to be happy to be queuing up for foreign exchange? I do not believe that is what we want to see in our country.

Mr Speaker, exchange controls were last seen in this country about twenty years ago. Given that many of the people living in this country, today, are young and do not even understand what exchange control is because they were not there when these things were happening, let me explain a little what this means.

Sir, today, a young man who intends to import a car for US$2,000 from Japan can go into the bank any time, buy the US$2,000, send the money and get the car without any exchange control. However, with exchange control, when you want to buy the US$2,000, you will have to apply, through your commercial bank, which will apply to the BoZ, and your application will either be approved or rejected. The BoZ will be regulating the foreign exchange and you will have no freedom to go and buy the US$2,000. The kind of frustration that we see when people are applying for licences, passports and other things is going to be the order of the day.

Sir, those of us who were there in the old days will remember vividly the suffering that these controls brought. We remember very well the corruption that was involved to get even just US$50. We have children who pay their examination fees for courses like Association of Chartered Certified Accountants(ACCA) using foreign currencies. There are also small-scale traders who need small amounts of money to go and buy things from Tanzania and come and resell. So, I do not think that we will be doing people a favour by subjecting them to all types of regulations and controls.

Sir, today, we are seeing quite a bit of intolerance. If we are going to regulate foreign exchange, what guarantee is there that regulators will not use politics to deny others access to foreign currency? These are the things that those of us who were adults in the seventies and eighties saw. If you are on the wrong political side, the authorities will not allow you to buy foreign currency. Is that what we want in this country? We would be doing our countrymen and women a lot of disfavour if we took that route.

Sir, after listening to the officials, I am still at a loss as to whether, in fact, any proper justification exists for going back to that route. The hon. Minister talked about the economic crisis and the need to have data, which data is there. You recall that in 2008 and 2009, we, together with the rest of the world, had an economic crisis. Even then, the data was there and we were able to tell what kind of vulnerability and fate the country faced. We had the data that showed how much money Zambia owed to the outside world, through Treasury bills, and shares because this was the biggest threat. At some point, people started discounting the Treasury bills, taking money out and then the exchange rate went wild, but we had the data to that effect. So, I am puzzled to hear that we need to do these things because data is not there. The data is there, and that is why we managed to overcome that crisis. We were also told that there would be nothing in this country that is exported without the authority of the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA).The ZRA would give permission for every export.

Mr Speaker, what we are seeing is something that the Americans have noticed for a long time. They had said that if an item is not out of order or broken, do not repair it. Just leave it alone. It was just yesterday that we were talking about the shortage of mealie-meal. In this country, we have not had mealie-meal shortages for the last fifteen to twenty years. However, our colleagues on the right have now said that they want to repair the mealie-meal market. As if that were not bad enough, we now want to repair the foreign exchange system which has worked very well for the last twenty years. Why do you want to disturb it? How many things are we going to disturb in this economy before we avoid these mistakes?

Mr Speaker, I believe that the Government must leave some systems alone because they have worked very well for the last ten to twenty years.

Sir, I joined the BoZ in the early nineties and you will recall that there were very stringent foreign exchange controls then. To get US$50 was a problem and people were failing to attend funerals in Malawi. Despite all the controls, I can tell you that the BoZ had only about US$93 million in reserves. Then, of course, we had men of courage and visionwho realised that if you liberalised the foreign exchange markets, that problem would go away, and that is exactly what was done.

Twenty years later, from US$93 million, we had US$2.6 billion. Therefore, foreign exchange under an open economic system increased rather than diminished. So, our economic system should not be disturbed because it is working.

Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, order!

This is a very earnest matter. It does not require those running commentaries.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I think it is apparent that the instability in the exchange rate is worrying our colleagues in the Government, hence the intention to introduce these controls or regulations we are talking about so as to make it stable. I do not think this is justified. Yes, I admit that the exchange rate has had some battering since our colleagues took over the Government but, I think, the Government is pointing the accusing finger in the wrong direction. It is easy to blame the private sector and claim that players in this sector are the ones causing this problem. However, the Government is not looking very carefully at how it is contributing to the instability of the exchange rate. Let me just give you a few examples. We know that our colleagues have a huge appetite for generating by-elections.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Every parliamentary by-election costs a minimum of about US$1 million. Whenever there is a by-election, it means that more fuel must be imported and consumed, ballot papers must be printed outside the country, allowances must be paid to electoral officials and so on and so forth. Some people get such hefty allowances that they are able to buy things like cars from them. So, by-elections are contributing to the instability in the exchange rate. The private sector must not be blamed for this and should, therefore, be left alone to operate freely from these controls. What should be addressed is the Government’s contribution to this situation.

Mr Speaker, there is also the issue of the ever-expanding Government. We cannot even count how many hon. Deputy Ministers or District Commissioners there are now. How many government vehicles have been bought for all these people? If the Government has bought so many vehicles, it means that more money will be spent on fuel to enable all these officials to travel. Therefore, how can that not have an impact on the exchange rate? So, the culprit is not necessarily the private sector, hence the need to look at our colleagues’ contribution to this process.

Mr Speaker, we have recently seen companies being nationalised. Doing this scares away investors. When people who willingly brought money to this country to invest see such things happening, they get scared. They either decide not to invest or if they already have companies running in such an environment, keep their money abroad. So, this creates instability in the exchange rate.

Mr Speaker, another observation is the Government’s growing appetite for borrowing money from outside the country. We want to borrow money and spend US$1.5 billion on revamping our railway system without even conducting a feasibility study to determine whether this sector is still viable or not. Of course, when those who are knowledgeable about economics look at such things, they are able to see that this country is going to have a problem in the next two to three years. Therefore, they take their money elsewhere.

Mr Speaker, my point here is that rather than trying to control small traders and students, in terms of approving student loans, the Government must look at its own actions. Remember that the Government’s actions tend to have a bigger impact on the economy than everybody else because the Government is a bigger spender.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, let me say that there is no doubt about the fact that this Bill is about reintroducing exchange controls. We cannot rely on the goodwill of people entrusted with so much power not to abuse it. If the current law is stringent enough, it means that the BoZ has all the latitude or powers to tighten on foreign exchange as much as it wants. So, let us not go that route. Our economic system has worked well for twenty years. If the Government has an appetite for problems, there are many of them at the moment.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Our colleagues promised people jobs …

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Aah!

We are enjoying the debate.

Interruptions

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I stand on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member debating in order to refer to us as not being a serious Government?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Kapata: Mr Speaker, he has said that and, I think, everybody has heard him. So, is he in order to repeat the points and continue politicking?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The point I take is avoidance of repetition. The audience is listening and I am sure, at this point, even according to our rules and time, the hon. Member for Liuwa should be winding up.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I was, indeed, winding up and all I said is that there are enough genuine economic problems that exist in our country. The Ruling Party promised people jobs, which are a genuine problem. Therefore, it should devote its energy to fulfilling that promise. It also promised people more money in their pockets, hence the need to deal with that promise, instead of wasting time on something that is working properly.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kabimba, SC.): Mr Speaker, I would like to contribute to this debate by following on the heels of the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa and what His Honour the Vice-President has said. What we should all realise is that Zambia is a Third World country with problems that are peculiar to the Third World. Therefore, I find it difficult to understand that, as leaders, we can come to this House and start making comparisons between big economies like the American economy and ours. What works in America cannot work for Zambia.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Can you listen.

Mr Speaker: Let us have order!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, in the last twenty years when the MMD has been running this economy, the hon. Minister of Finance has been reading out figures of the rate at which this economy has been growing such as 6 and 7 per cent. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank teams have come here and patted the MMD Government on the back for this economic growth. The question is: To whose benefithas this economy been growing? People in Chibolya, Keembe and my own bululus in Mumbwa have been wallowing in poverty …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister of Justice, please, restrict yourself to the official language.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Sorry, Mr Speaker. I withdraw that vernacular term.

Mr Speaker, the point I am making is that the people of Zambia have not seen the benefit of economic growth in the last twenty years. You do not have to be an economist to see how our people have grown poorer in the last twenty years.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Therefore, to create a foundation of debate on fear that if we do this, this is what is going to happen and, if we do this, we are going back to exchange control regulations without contextualising the perimeters of this Bill, is being unfair to the people of this country. I think His Honour the Vice-President has made it clear that the word “regulate” would be removed from this Bill. What we ought to understand is that there are a lot of things that are going on in this economy. The circulation of the money in this economy is certainly not being captured by this Government. There is nothing here that is working that we are trying to undo. The point is that nothing is working. It was beneficial to our colleagues who were in the Government then because they benefitted from this arrangement against the people who voted them into power.

Hon. PF Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: We are a Government, Mr Speaker, that was elected by the people of Zambia to come and improve the welfare of the Zambian people and not to improve the living standards of the hon. Members on the right. Therefore, we are taking these measures to ensure that our people see the benefit of having voted for the PF Government into power. These measures are not targeted at anybody. There are more measures coming to ensure that this economy delivers to our people because that is what we were voted for. If it pleases our colleagues on the left to see our people continue wallowing in poverty and growing poorer and poorer, we shall not join them in that kind of approach.

Mr Speaker, from the Structural Adjustment Programme (SAP), which was the first programme that the MMD Government embarked on, up to last year or 2011 when they were dislodged from power, the Zambian people have not seen anything that has improved their lives.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: That is true. So, Mr Speaker, examples are numerous. We still have classes, clinics and court sessions conducted under trees. All these are symptoms of an economy that was left by our colleagues and that has not worked to the benefit of the people of this country. Our duty is to ensure that we have an economy that delivers to the aspirations of our people. We have a duty to our people to ensure that after twenty years of the mismanagement of this economy, they start seeing the fruits of the resources that are being harvested by the investors because these natural resources belong to the Zambian people. I, therefore, would like to urge this House, to support the amendments which have been proposed to remove the word “regulate”. Certainly, there is something that requires fixing in this economy. The economy that the people of Zambia have inherited over the last twenty years is not an economy which is friendly to them. It has been friendly to a few in the political arena but, certainly, not to the ordinary person. Therefore, to create the impression that there is a shortage of maize is not right because there was a shortage of mealie-meal even under the MMD.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: It is not true, Mr Speaker, that the reported shortage of mealie-meal in the Eastern Province started with the PF Government. One way we can tell the reaction of the people to the performance of a government is an election. In the by-elections that have just been conducted, we won thirty-two local Government by-elections against four of the combined team of the Opposition. Those are the characteristics of a working Government.

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order. I am of the view that this Bill is extremely important to this House and the nation and, therefore, it deserves an informed debate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Is the hon. Minister in order to veer off from this very important Bill and begin to talk about politics on the Floor of this House when this Bill touches on the state of the economy of this country?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I do not want to go into a discussion or definition of what politics is, but I will simply urge the hon. Minister of Justice to take into account that observation.

You can continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for that guidance. The point that I raised is that this is a serious Bill. In our view, it is going to improve the lives of our people and strengthen the economy, and is not targeted at any individual sector. Like His Honour the Vice-President said, many of the stakeholders have been consulted and, therefore, you cannot move an argument that is predicated on inciting people to be afraid of what they have not yet seen. We want to ensure that the measures that are taken through this Bill benefit the people of this country. We understand very well the seriousness of this Bill. Therefore, I would like to urge our colleagues to support the Bill with the amendments that they have already conceded to.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, I want to start by thanking the hon. Member for Liuwa for a very patriotic approach to the debate …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simfukwe: … by bringing out his vast experience. I know many people in his position would have chosen to leave matters as they are, hoping that when things go wrong, this side would take advantage and bounce back into power.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simfukwe: I think that is a hallmark of patriotism.

Mr Speaker, this is certainly a non-partisan Bill, and I will debate it as such. This Bill deals with monetary issues. The key issues on how our economy performs are the interest and exchange rates. However, I would like to borrow from our colleagues, the economists, who say that most of what happens to our exchange and interest rates has a lot to do with what happens to the rest of the fiscal economy, such as production and services and so on and so forth.

As we desire to introduce these measures that some people are not willing to describe as controls, whether they are controls or not, we need to be mindful of the fact that the fiscal side of our economy has a lot to do with what happens to our interest and exchange rates.

Sir, the control of the exchange and interest rates is not always a problem. There are records to this effect. There are many countries, at the moment, that have exchange rate controls which include South Africa and Malaysia. The list is very long. Even the IMF, our very important global partner, recognises these economies and has a term for them. Therefore, Zambia would not stand alone if it considered introducing some form of exchange or interest rate controls. That would not be a completely strange occurrence. However, the experiences of these countries, according to what has been documented, have not been entirely successful. Therefore, our success will depend a lot on how we manage the control measures that we introduce and the state of our economy. What kind of economy do we have? Does it favour these kinds of measures?

Mr Speaker, our economy is almost 90 per cent dependent on imports. It is an economy that is almost entirely controlled by foreigners. No Zambian owns a single mine in this country. Our businessmen do not own enough control of our economy. Most of it is controlled by foreign capital. Is our economy capable of benefiting from signals or market messages that the Government wants to control?

Mr Speaker, South Africa was heavily controlled, but still benefited from the controls. What was the state of its economy? Remember that it was mostly under apartheid when it introduced the controls. What economy do we have? Can the Zambia economy benefit from certain control measures?

Mr Speaker, controls do not have to be legislated. We have had controls. We have one of the best teams of economists at the BoZ. They have been monitoring, controlling and supervising the economy. Now we want to legislate that control.

Mr Speaker, some of the actions that the private sector will take to avoid these controls are very similar to what they are already doing at the moment. When we impose controls, the private sector develops mechanisms for beating or avoiding those controls.

Sir, shifting of funds abroad and capital flight is going on as we speak. It will only get worse. Once certain measures are legislated, certain activities will become criminalised. In order to survive, these people will become even more careful and difficult to detect when they start to engage in capital flight.

Mr Speaker, we have a problem of transfer pricing which is a matter that I have raised on the Floor of this House before. Some investors are importing goods from South Africa and other countries at very inflated prices so that when they pay for these goods, their sister companies abroad will then find a way of relocating those funds. This will become worse.

Sir, mining companies are under-invoicing our copper. I raised this matter with His Honour the Vice-President last week. They are exporting copper to Switzerland, and yet there is no trace of our copper in that country. Why are they exporting to Switzerland where there is no processing of copper? This matter is well known. What is going on is under-invoicing. It will get worse now that it has been criminalised with a five-year sentence once any person is caught doing it. It will get worse. They will either pack their capital out of the country or they will become more careful with how they do it. The reason they are selling to Switzerland is that they have sister companies there which are buying the copper at very low prices, thereby reducing the amount of profit they are making in Zambia and declaring less tax. It is a well-known fact which has been brought out in many documentaries.

When I asked His Honour the Vice-President about it – by the way, he is my mentor and he groomed me for many years in very important areas of our profession – I was even surprised when he told me that this matter of …

Mr Speaker: Now you are deviating, hon. Member for Mbala. Let us be focused. Let us debate what is before us.

Laughter

Mr Simfukwe: I thank you, Mr Speaker. I just wanted to say that he certainly agrees with me because he groomed me in some of the thoughts which I hold.

Mr Simbao: Except that you did not buy yellow maize.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, the interest and foreign exchange rates that we are worrying about and want to legislate can be managed without legislation. They have variables and our economists in the Ministry of Finance know them. They know what determines the interest rates. There are PhD holders at the BoZ. They know what determines the foreign exchange rates. These are the things that we should be tinkering with and not legislation. To me, this is like a matter which was imposed on them because the kind of officers I know at the Ministry of Finance or the BoZ would never recommend a Bill like this one.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear! It is political.

Mr Simfukwe: There are variables which they can work with to bring the rates down. They can stabilise our exchange rate, depending on how much they are allowed to do their work professionally.

Sir, I want to emphasise that this is a non-partisan Bill and that these comments are meant to alert us to the consequences of passing this Bill.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to mention that we need to look at why, exactly, our foreign exchange rate is not getting any stronger. A stable exchange rate is what we want because a weak one is not good for importers just as a strong one is not good for exporters. Why is the currency weak, and yet our interest rates are not responding to the inflation rate?

Mr Speaker, this economy is a high-cost economy. We have one of the highest prices for fuel. Our mode of importation of productive goods is one of the most expensive. We have a railway line from Dar-es-Salaam to Kapiri Mposhi, but it is hardly used. I drive on that route almost every month. I rarely meet that train. We are not using our railway tracks which are the cheapest mode of transport even in the most developed countries. We prefer to run our goods on the roads. That is very expensive and translates into many other things such as higher interest rates because the money that transporters and importers pay has to be paid back and they will build that cost into their prices. That has a tendency of pushing the interest rates up.

Mr Speaker, why is our economy not responding to the high copper production in the country? We have remained a primary producer. We produce copper and hardly add any value to it like we used to do before. Most of our refineries have been closed and, obviously,cannibalised. Even just taking copper out of the mines by road is done by foreign trucks. Even baked beans are imported. Cornflakes, which are made from maize, are also imported. You will not find a single packet of cornflakes made in Zambia, and yet we have bumper harvests of maize.

Mr Speaker, there is very little value added to things produced in our country. That is why our currency is weak. One of the most important resources we have in this country is the human resource. Our youths are unemployed. We are looking at our human resource as a cost, when it is an economic asset which the kwacha is supposed to get its strength from. If Zambians had jobs and money in their pockets, the kwacha would be strong. If Zambians were the businessmen owning our mines, running the big shops such as Shoprite and Spar or owning manufacturing industries, there would be no capital flight and the kwacha would be strong. The kwacha is influenced by the Zambian. If the Zambian is poor, even the kwacha is poor.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about perception. We need to be wary of how we project our country to outsiders and ourselves. The foreign exchange rate responds to perception. Even this Bill that has been brought here is enough to trigger a certain perception among some investors. We still depend on foreigners. They own our economy and, at the moment, and we are vulnerable to capital flight because the foreigners are already worried about what we are trying to do. That perception will weaken the kwacha. We do not need certain pieces of legislation. Our officers at the BoZ and the Ministry of Finance are capable of monitoring some of these issues.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude my contribution, I want to ask why we have ignored the Anti-Money Laundering Act. Would this Act not be adequate enough toenable us take punitive actionagainst those who would be found not operating well within our financial system?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, what is wrong with the Anti-Money Laundering Act that we have to introduce another Act for the BoZ? A few weeks ago, His Excellency the President announced the composition of the Financial Intelligence Team. I have a lot of regard for some of the people on that team, including one of my brothers. He is very intelligent and experienced. Why have we not taken that team into account? It can detect what is happening in our economy and if there are any laws being broken, we have adequate laws under the Anti-Money Laundering Act and many other similar Acts to deal with such incidents. Why do we want the five years penalty to be managed by the wrong institution, the BoZ?

Mr Speaker, I know we have a small black market for foreign exchange. There is also the potential for us to set the exchange rate at a wrong level. Only the market knows the rate of foreign exchange because it is the price of the dollar and kwacha. Only the market can determine that. We will be wrong to start setting it because we are not the market. If we set it wrongly, the market will grow out of control and that is going to create a lot of distortions in our economy. These controls were tested recently. I know that many of us grew up during the time of exchange rate controls of the 1990s and 1980s and we know what happened. There is an example I can give of an incident that happened recently. We told millers not to sell mealie-meal at more that K50,000. That is a control measure on the fiscal side of the economy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, what have the millers done? They have locked up their milling companies. In the Northern Province, one brand new milling company has closed. The company did not have problems with machinery. It is just not profitable anymore for it to transport maize to Kasama or Mbala and then sell the mealie-meal at K50,000. They do not want to argue with the Government, hence they locked up their plant and said that a partof their machinery was missing.

Hon. Opposition Members: It is true!

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, that is the invisible hand of the market.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, the market can respond to controls. We want to introduce these measures in the financial markets, and the markets will respond. By the time we realise this and start to reverse the damage, it might be too late to do so. Therefore, I think that this non-partisan Bill needs to be reviewed and all the views that have been expressed should be taken into account.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichinga on behalf of Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I have listened very carefully to what hon. Members of this House have said. Yesterday, I took the opportunity to read the report of the Committee of this House. I have taken note of its recommendations and observations. It is quite clear to me that apart from the statements that have been made in the discussions,it is also clear to any hon. Member who is patriotic to the country and his conscience that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. What I am saying should be clear to anyone who cared to look at the figures I provided and the comparison I made between the growth rates and interest rates.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Dr Musokotwane, who is a member of the Committee, raised a number of issues. Surprisingly, he went outside the report that is before us and made reference to statements that were made by some officials which, quite frankly, I did not read in this document. If this information had been made available to the Committee, I expect that it would have been reflected in this report. What is reflected in the report is that the Committee recognises the good intentions of the Government. Furthermore, it is important not to sensationalise issues of the economy. A number of statements that were made by Hon. Dr Musokotwane were, in fact, completely outside what has been reported here. He talked about tomatoes, the control of mealie-meal prices, which we debated yesterday, and also the issue of expanding the Government and companies being nationalised. Those issues are certainly not anywhere in the document before us. As the various contributions were being made regarding what we are discussing, I observed that there was complete silence on our side because we were listening very carefully to what our colleagues had to say. Hon. Dr Musokotwane also said, for example, that the Government borrowed money for Zambia Railways without having conducted any feasibility studies. I am sure people are aware that, in fact, the Zambia Railways is operational and has been brought to its knees because we did not invest in it at the right time.

Mr Speaker, the issues in this Bill have nothing to do with Zambia Railways, Tanzania Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA), tomatoes or by-elections. Therefore, I regard the statements made by Hon. Dr Musokotwane as innuendos which have no relationship to what this Bill seeks to achieve.

Mr Speaker, I tried, as much as possible, to carefully explain certain things to the House. Hon. Dr Musokotwane was privileged to work at the BoZ.Therefore, he, probably, knows more of what happens there than all of us here. It is clear from the existing law that there are no provisions which can address what the Bill seeks to achieve. It is for that reason that we have come to this House. Assuming that the position that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbala has raised is correct, that it is possible for the BoZ to do things willy-nilly, should that not be an area of concern for any investor operating in this country because changes can be made without reference to any law? Should that not be a source of worry to the investor? In fact, it is the statements that were made in this House by some of the hon. Members of Parliament that are creating the perception that we are not governed by laws. To the contrary, I want to submit that we are a Government of laws. We are also a Government that recognises that there have been shortcomings in the current legislation.

So, Sir, I want to concur with what your Committee has said from the conclusion of its report as follows:

“Your Committee wishes to express gratitude …”

However, before that, it said:

“Subject to the foregoing, your Committee, while appreciating the intentions of the Government on the amendment of the Bill, recommends that the proposed Bank of Zambia Bill be deferred to allow for consultations.”

Nevertheless, Mr Speaker, these are the consultations that have just taken place, including those that have been made by the Committee itself.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Sichinga: Also, in the opening remarks, the report says:

“They have agreed, save for that particular portion.”

Sir, under the circumstances, I want to assure not only this House and the nation of Zambia, but also any people that are interested in investing in our country that there is no mischief in this Bill. Let me also take the opportunity to say that having served as hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, I have traversed the world to promote Zambia’s position of being law abiding. I would not bring to this House a Bill that is not going to recognise the needs that we have outside.

Mr Speaker, under these circumstances, it is clear that the issue of foreign exchange regulation, as reflected in the price and exchange rates that are obtaining, are a clear sign that we need to address this issue.

Sir, let me assure this House and the nation at large that there is no intention or hidden agenda behind this Bill to reintroduce exchange rate controls, far from it. The innuendos to the effect that when you want to send fees for your child, it will be controlled and so on and so forth, quite frankly, are a complete red herring, away from what this Bill seeks to achieve.

Mr Speaker, what we have also learnt from the 2008 crisis is such that we need to anticipate rather than react. What we need is for the Government to be adequately informed that its information is based on empirically-based evidence which will enable it to better anticipate the potential external shocks, in particular, that might impact the economy through monitoring transactions …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on my left!

Mr Sichinga: … that affect the foreign exchange market.

Sir, this statutory instrument (SI), which is to be issued out of this Bill once this House approves it, will be clearly evident to reflect its genuineness of its intention. It is quite clear also that any further consultations can be undertaken. After all, this matter is before the House.

Mr Speaker, the Government is committed to maintaining a flexible foreign exchange regime as well as an open foreign exchange market. That is our commitment to this country. To do that, we need to have information based on the facts that are obtained in the framework of the law.

Sir, we have carefully listened to all the contributionsthat have been made and will take them into account as we bring this Bill forward.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Hon. Opposition Memberscalled for a division.

Question that the Bank of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2013, be read a second time, put and the House voted.

Ayes – (59)

Mr N. Banda
Mr C. Banda
Mr C. Bwalya
Mr L. Chabala
Colonel G. Chanda
Mr H. Chansa
Mr E. Chenda
Dr P.Chikusu
Mr N. Chilangwa
Mr D. Chingimbu
Mr O. C. Chisala
Mr M. Chishimba
Mr R. Chitotela
Mr W. Kabimba, SC
Ms J. Kapata
Mr M. Kapeya
Mr J. Kapyanga
Dr J. Kasonde
Dr J. Katema
Mrs B. K. Kawandami
Mr L. Kazabu
Mr J. Kufuna
Mr G. Lubinda
Colonel J. Lungu
Mr D. Mabumba
Mr M. H. Malama
Mr S. Masumba
Mr C. Matafwali
Mr R. Mbulu
Mr G. Monde
Mr R. L. Mpundu
Mr N. Mubukwanu
Mr M. Mumba
Mr S. Mushanga
Mr R. Musukwa
Mr B. Mutale
Dr. A. Mwali
Mr D. Mwango
Mr R. Mwewa
Mr D. Mwila
Mr G. Namulambe
Mr M. Ng’onga
Mr D. Phiri
Dr J. T. N. Phiri
Mr K. Sakeni
Dr G. L. Scott
Mr F. Shamenda
Mr R. K. Sichinga
Mr M. Sichone
Mr A. Sichula
Mr F. Sikazwe
Dr N. Simbyakula
Mr W. Simuusa
Mr R. Taima
Mr F. R. Tembo
Professor N. Willombe
Mr C. Yaluma
Mr J. Zimba
Mr C. S. Zulu

Noes – (44)

Mr I. Banda
Mr W. Banda
Mr E. Belemu
Mr J. Chishiba
Brig-Gen Dr. B. Chituwo
Mrs A. M. Chungu
Mr M. Habeenzu
Mr K. Hamudulu
Mr B. Hamusonde
Ms M. Imenda
Mr L. M. Kaingu
Mr C. W. Kakoma
Dr C. Kalila
Ms V. Kalima
Mr M. Katambo
Mr S. Katuka
Dr. E. Kazonga
Mr H. Kunda
Mr D. Livune
Ms M. Lubezhi
Mr A. Lufuma
Professor G. Lungwangwa
Mr A. Mbewe
Mr M. Mbulakulima
Mr A. Milambo
Mr C. Miyanda
Mr P. R. Mtolo
Mr P. Mucheleka
Mr L. Mufalali
Mr O. Mulomba
Dr S. Musokotwane
Mr F. Mutati
Mr V. Mwale
Mr M. B. Mwale
Mr H. I. Mwanza
Mr C. Mweetwa
Mr M. Ndalamei
Mr L. J. Ngoma
Lt. Gen. R. Shikapwasha
Mr H. Sililo
Ms D. Siliya
Mr K. N. Simbao
Mr M. Simfukwe
Mr E. M. Sing'ombe

Abstentions – (0)

Question accordingly agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 13thMarch, 2013.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

SECOND READING

THE MILLENIUM CHALLENGE COMPACT BILL, 2013

Mr Sichingaon behalf of Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, the Millennium Challenge Compact Bill seeks to domesticate and give effect to the Millennium Challenge Compact and Programme Implementation Agreement. This will regulate the implementation of the Lusaka Water Supply, Sanitation and Drainage (LWSSD) Project in areas in Lusaka within the limited five-year compact timeframe.

Sir, the Millennium Challenge Compact is a programme which is being supported by the United States of America (USA) Government through the Millennium Challenge Corporation (MCC), which was established in 2004 as a USA foreign aid agency to provide large-scale grants to fund country-led solutions for reducing poverty through sustainable economic growth.

Mr Speaker, on 10th May, 2012, the USA, acting through the MCC and the Republic of Zambia, signed a US$355 million grant to provide water, sanitation and drainage infrastructure to select peri-urban and urban areas in the City of Lusaka referred to as the LWSSD. The implementation of the project will be for a period of five years after the Compact and Programme Implementation Agreements enter into force.

Sir, the overall objective of the programme is to expand access and improve reliability of water supply and sanitation and improve drainage services in select urban and peri-urban areas of the City of Lusaka. Consequently, the following will be some of the benefits of the LWSSD:

(a) improved household health through the reduction of instances of water borne diseases;

(b) decreased economic impact of water and related diseases;

(d) improved quality of service delivery in water supply;

(e) reduced water losses;

(f) time savings to households;

(g) improved water supply infrastructure;

(h) improved sanitation coverage and infrastructure; and

(i) improved drainage system.

Mr Speaker, the Compact and Programme Implementation Agreements are bilateral international agreements governed by …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

There are excessive indulgencies on the right.

Mr Sichinga: … international law.The provisions of these agreements must be enforceable in Zambia, hence the need to demonstrate this bilateral agreement.

Sir, in terms of international law, Zambia follows the duality principle which states that international law and domestic law are separate and distinct legal systems which operate on different levels. This entails that international law can only be enforced in a national law if it is incorporated or transformed. As such, domestication represents the only way to ensure that the Compact and Programme Implementation Agreement obtains the required status under the Zambian Law in order to give effect to the agreements.

Mr Speaker, the process of domestication is also designed to assure the Government of the Republic of Zambia and the USA Government that the project would be implemented fully without the threat of delays which result in money going back to the USA Treasury. There is no provision of extension of the five-year term of the compact under the Millennium Challenge Compact Act.

I, therefore, wish to urge the House to support this Bill, as it will help to enliven our people’s lives and ease their burden in areas that are affected.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, your Committee considered the Millennium Challenge Compact Bill, 2013 referred to on Wednesday 20th February, 2013. The objects of the Bill are to:

(a) give effect to the Millennium Challenge Compact and Programme Implementation Agreement;

(b) expand access to and improve the reliability of water supply, sanitation and drainage services in selected urban and peri-urban areas of the City of Lusaka in order to reduce the incidents of water borne and water-related diseases;

(c) generate time savings for households and businesses and reduce non-revenue water in the water supply network by improving water supply, sanitation and drainage services; and

(d) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Mr Speaker, let me state, from the outset, that your Committee supports the Bill. In doing so, your Committee wishes to make some observations.

Sir, having considered the submissions by various stakeholders, your Committee agrees with their concerns on clauses 4, 7, 8, and 9, as these provisions oust the provisions of the Zambian law, with the exception of the Constitution and subordination thereof to the MCC. For example, the MCC has been exempted from the Zambian laws governing taxation, auditing, the environment and public procurement. It is not desirable that each time a donor gives us money, then, Parliament has to make a special law for that situation.

Mr Speaker, your Committee further notes that any amendments to the Bill would make it impossible for the Zambian Government to meet the conditions precedent to the MCC, thus rendering the MCC null and void. That has put the National Assembly of Zambia in an awkward position because it would be precarious to amend any provision in the Bill.

Sir, your Committee appreciates the concerns that these provisions would interfere with Zambia’s sovereignty. However, it also understands that the Millennium Challenge Fund (MCF) is a unique and relatively new innovation being implemented by the USA Government in various countries on standard terms. We are poor and need the money. Therefore, we have no option, but to swallow our pride and accept the conditionalities in the agreement. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the House supports the enactment of the Millennium Challenge Compact Bill, 2013 in order to facilitate the implementation of the MCC, which would alleviate water supply and sanitation and drainage services in selected areas in Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the House for the unanimous support to this Bill.

Sir, as all of us know that the city in which we live has been plagued by all sorts of disasters, especially in areas like Kanyama. I am sure that this will be a welcome addition to our efforts.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreedto and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 13th March, 2013.

________

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

THE HIGHER EDUCATION BILL, 2013

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on page 10, after line 3, by the insertion of the following new definition:

“‘Register’ means the register of higher education institutions kept by the Authority under Section 47”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause 2 amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52 and 53 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First, Second and Third Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE TEACHING PROFESSION BILL, 2013

Clauses 1, 2, 3 and 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 5 − (Composition of Council)

Dr Phiri: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 5, on page 10, in line 31, by the insertion, immediately after the word “Council” of the words “from among the members”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 6 and 7 ordered to stand of the Bill.

CLAUSE 8 – (Inspectors)

Dr Phiri: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 8, on page 12, in line 20 by the insertion immediately after the word “appoint” of the words “suitably qualified persons as”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 8, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 9, 10 and 11 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 12 – (Disqualification from Registration)

Ms Imenda: I have an objection on Clause 12(b).

The Chairperson: Did you move an amendment?

Ms Imenda: No, Sir.

The Chairperson: Then you cannot object on the Floor.

Laughter

Clauses 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57 and 58 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 59 – (Regulations)

Dr Phiri: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 59, on page 30, in line 20 by the deletion of the words “the Code of Ethics and”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 59, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

_____

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Higher Education Bill, 2013

The Teaching Profession Bill, 2013

Report Stages, on Wednesday, 13th March, 2013.

_________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_________

The House adjourned at 1912 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 13th March, 2013.

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