Wednesday, 11^th October, 2017

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_________

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

MIGRATION OF ELECTRICITY TARIFFS TO COST-REFLECTIVITY

The Minister of Energy (Mr Mabumba): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to update the nation, through this august House, on the progress made in the gradual migration of electricity tariffs to cost reflectivity.

Madam Speaker, my hon. Colleagues may recall that in my statement to this august House on 28^th March, 2017, I referred to policy measures that were being taken to migrate electricity tariffs to cost reflectivity for all customer categories. That was in line with the Patriotic Front (PF) Manifesto of 2016/2021, which calls for the attainment of cost reflectivity in electricity tariffs by December, 2019, and the National Energy Policy (NEP) of 2008, which calls for cost reflectivity in pricing of all energy services and products. Furthermore, the hon. Minister of Finance stated in his 2017 National Budget Speech that the Government expected electricity tariffs to reach cost reflectivity by the end of December, 2017. Let me now update the House on what has so far been achieved.

Residential Customers

Madam Speaker, as members of this august House may recall, the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) applied to the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) to revise residential tariffs upwards and increase the Lifeline (R1) Tariff Band from 100 kW per month to 300 kW without increasing the unit price. Additionally, ZESCO applied for the fixed charge component of the tariff to be increased by 75 per cent. After due consideration of the applications and taking into account all the submissions from the public, ERB approved the increase of residential tariffs by 75 per cent and revision of residential tariffs bands as follows:

(a) revision of Lifeline (R1) consumption band upper limit from 100 kW to 200 kW;

(b) revision of the Residential (R2) consumption band lower limit from 101 kW to above 200kW;

(c) abolition of the Residential (R3) consumption band;

            (d) maintenance of the monthly fixed charge at K18.23.

Madam Speaker, although the ERB has not awarded the Lifeline consumption band of 300 kW for which ZESCO had applied, the customers in the tariff band will benefit from the fixed charge, which has not been increased. I also wish to report that about 42 per cent of all residential customers fall in the Lifeline tariff band.

Madam, a 50 per cent tariff increase was effected on 15^th May, 2017, and a further 25 per cent increase was effected from 1^st September, 2017, as approved by the ERB.

Madam Speaker, before the adjustment was made on 15^th May, 2017, a customer on the Lifeline tariff band, which was at 100 kW, paid K80.08. After the revision of the tariff band, a customer with 200 kW is now expected to pay, all taxes included, K61.10. That amount will also be applicable after 1^st September, 2017, when tariffs are adjusted by 25 per cent. In United States Dollars, the Residential tariffs, that is, R1 and R2, averaged US$3.47/kWh. After the 50 per cent increase in May, 2017, it rose to US$4.84/kWh. After the 1^st September, 2017, 25 per cent increment, the tariff averaged US$5.47/kWh.

Mining Customers

Madam Speaker, in December, 2016, negotiations were held between ZESCO, the Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) and the mining houses in good faith on moving tariffs towards cost reflectivity and achieving closure on all outstanding billing issues by January, 2017. The negotiations, which were meant to ultimately result in a win-win situation, were premised on the following principles:

(a) equitable treatment of all mine customers with respect to the tariff adjustment;

(b) implementation of the agreed tariffs with effect from 1^st January, 2017;

(c) agreement on a mechanism for disposing of any legal processes in which the parties might have been involved with respect to any historical tariff adjustment;

(d) collaboration in supporting the cost-of-service study that the ERB would conduct in 2017.

Madam Speaker, arising from the negotiations, the interim average mining tariff was determined at US$9.3/kWh effective January, 2017, pending the conclusion of the cost-of-service study. Of the fifteen mining customers, twelve agreed to migrate to the new tariff while Kansanshi, Kalumbila and Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) were reluctant. Consequently, ZESCO and the CEC restricted power supply to the three mines on 10^th and 11^th August, 2017. However, following Government-supported further negotiations among the parties, an agreement was reached. Subsequently, power was restored to Mopani and the First Quantum Minerals (FQM) mines by 13^th September, 2017, on condition that all the outstanding issues be resolved by 30^th October, 2017. 

Industrial Customers

Madam Speaker, the ERB approved a 75 per cent tariff adjustment for maximum demand (MD) commercial or industrial customers in MD1 to MD4 category. The ERB also approved a time-of-use tariff structure for this category of customers, meaning that they can cushion the impact of the new tariff adjustment on their operations by shifting as many of their operations or as much of their production as possible to off-peak periods, which are between 2200 and 0600 hours. For example, MD customers can reduce their tariff increase from 75 to 29 per cent by shifting more production to off-peak hours. I, therefore, encourage industrial customers to shift their maximum energy consumption from peak and standard hours to off-peak hours for them to benefit from the time-of-use tariff structure.

Madam Speaker, the tariffs for industrial customers in United States Dollars are as follows:

Tariff Category           Before Increase              After 50% Increase           After 75% Increase                                                     (15 May 2017)                                                 (1^st September 2017)

MD1                                     2.39                                  3.58                                     4.17

MD2                                     2.30                                  3.45                                     4.03

MD3                                     2.29                                  3.44                                     4.01

MD4                                     2.09                                  3.13                                     3.65

Madam Speaker, these interim adjustments in the tariff, which are still not cost-reflective, are meant to provide ZESCO with adequate revenues to purchase power for the country from various available sources within and outside the country, and invest in new generation and transmission capacity expansion projects to support the economic and social development of the country. The migration to cost-reflective tariffs will also relieve the Government of the burden of subsidising electricity.

Madam Speaker, in the future, the determination of cost-reflective tariffs will be informed by the cost-of-service study to which I referred in my earlier statement. The study on electricity cost-of-service and determination of the economic cost of cost-reflective tariffs was launched on 13^th April, 2017, and is being conducted by Economic Consulting Associates (ECA) of the United Kingdom. In August, 2017, the presented the Inception Report to the Technical Committee and the Steering Committee. The study will be completed in the first quarter of 2018 and the implementation of its recommendations will follow immediately thereafter. The consultant has since engaged with the relevant stakeholders to ensure maximum buy-in into the results of the study.

Madam, the study is intended to achieve the following:

(a) determine the long-term least cost generation, transmission, distribution and supply programmes to meet the forecasted electricity demand in Zambia over the medium to long term;

(b) design tariff structures and levels that will reflect economic cost-of-service by consumer category; and

(c) determine the appropriate tariff structure and level of the Social Lifeline tariff.

Madam Speaker, allow me to conclude by appealing to the public to adopt new efficient adopt demand-side power management practices to help to conserve power, such as:

(a) switching off all electrical appliances and lights that are not in use at any given time of the day;

(b) migrating from the use of ordinary incandescent bulbs to the compact fluorescent light (CFL) and light emitting diodes (LED) bulbs;

(c) using solar water geysers; and

(d) using alternative sources of energy, such as liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), for cooking and heating purposes.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

The First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister.

Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga): Madam Speaker, since the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) is 100 per cent a Zambian entity, why are tariffs quoted in dollars instead of the kwacha? What example is that setting for the private sector?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I mentioned dollars out of normal practice because ZESCO pays independent power producers (IPPs) in dollars. However, if the hon. Member looked at his bills or went to any ZESCO Customer Service Centre, he would note that the tariffs are kwacha-based.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Madam Speaker, it is believed by many stakeholders that the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) tariffs that the Energy Regulations Board (ERB) has been approving are unjustifiable because ZESCO is very inefficient, and that the results of the cost-of-service study would be the only objective way of determining fair tariffs. However, a 75 per cent tariff adjustment was approved for some customers by the ERB before the study had been concluded. Is the hon. Minister reassuring this House and the nation that the ERB will be instructed to adjust the tariffs downwards if the study finds that the current tariffs are too high?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, it is because of the ineffectiveness of the subjective processes we have been using to determine the tariffs that the Government decided to appoint a consultant to conduct the cost-of-service study, which the Government believes to be the only rational methodology, if used with the participation of all the stakeholders, for determining acceptable tariffs. So, assuming that the study will conclude that the current tariffs are higher than they are supposed to be, the tariffs will to be lowered.

Madam Speaker, currently, ZESCO buys power from Maamba Coal-Fired Power Plant at about 10.35₵/kWh and imports it at 12.90₵/kWh. Some providers even sell power at 18₵/kWh. Meanwhile, currently, ZESCO sells power to residential customers at 5.47₵/kWh, to industrial customers at 4.10₵/kWh, on average, and to the mining companies at 9.3₵/kWh. From these figures, you can see that the tariffs at which ZESCO sells power are lower than those at which it buys it. So, although the cost-of-service study has not been concluded, it is already obvious that the cost at which ZESCO supplies power to various customers is higher than the tariffs the company charges.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister referred to stakeholders who were consulted by Economic Consulting Associates (ACE), but I want to put it to him that hon. Members of Parliament are first-priority stakeholders, yet they were not consulted.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: The stakeholders the hon. Minister says were consulted are the mines, which always twist the Government’s arm whichever way they want. I want the hon. Minister to be open with us and tell us why the Government does not consult us, the people’s representatives, first instead of presenting to us a list that has been approved in consultation with a minority of stakeholders?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, the consultation is still ongoing. As I said, we launched the cost-of-service study on 13^th April, 2017, and the inception report has been written. I have also asked the ERB to convene a stakeholders meeting in the first week of November, 2017, where the mining houses and all hon. Members of Parliament or, at least, the Committee on Energy, Water Development and Tourism, so that the consultant can present some of the findings of the study to them and get feedback from them.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Madam Speaker, have the three mining giants that were reluctant to sign up to the new tariff agreement now signed it or did the Government that curve in to their demands?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, like I said, one of the principles of the negotiations was to attain a win-win situation for all the customer categories. So, after the three mines showed reluctance to accept the new tariff, the Government facilitated negotiations among the CEC, ZESCO, MCM and the FQM mines, and an interim agreement was reached pending the resolution of all the outstanding issues in six weeks, which end on 30^th October, 2017. So, the resolution was the result of a collaborative effort aimed at ensuring that the performance of the economy was not adversely affected.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, the money that Zambians pay for energy is hard-earned. In light of the tariff adjustments, does the hon. Minister assure us of improvement in service delivery by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO)? Will ZESCO in Kalabo respond to cases as soon as they are reported?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, like I have already said, one of the principal justifications for the tariff adjustments was the need for ZESCO operations to become financially sustainable. Hon. Members often ask about when their schools and clinics will be electrified. However, if ZESCO does not have the money, it cannot implement such projects. So, I assure Hon. Miyutu and the people of Kalabo Central that the interim tariff adjustments we have made are expected to lead to a gradual improvement in ZESCO’s service delivery, including in the connection of new places to the National Electricity Grid. In fact, next year, we will embark on a very ambitious programme of electrifying our new districts and schools that have not been electrified. All that will be possible because of the measures that the Government has put in place.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West): Madam Speaker, the issue of cost-reflective tariffs is very important. In that regard, the hon. Minister is aware that the operations at Kabompo Hydro Power Station are at a standstill because the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) and the promoters of the power station have failed to agree on the tariff the promoters have proposed. At what tariff does ZESCO export power?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I do not have the exact figure because the tariff is dependent on the bilateral agreements ZESCO signed with the countries that import power from Zambia. However, like I said, we do not make much money from the power that we export.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Phiri (Kanyama): Madam Speaker, some sections of Kanyama have been denied the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) power. Further, some people claim that energy can be generated from garbage and other sources, apart from hydro. If somebody who can generate energy from garbage, which is plentiful in Kanyama, approached the hon. Minister, would he or she be allowed to provide electricity to areas not serviced by ZESCO? The areas that are not electrified are the unplanned settlements that have existed for many years. The people living there cannot access power because they do not have documents for their properties.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member’s question is not related to the statement issued by the hon. Minister. However, if the hon. Minister is willing, he can give a bonus answer.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, it is unfortunate if there are some people in Kanyama who cannot access power. Maybe, I can verify the facts with the hon. Member later outside the House.

Madam, regarding the hon. Member’s request, last week, I requested my colleagues to start consulting the Ministry of Local Government on the need for us to work together in finding a promoter or developer for a plant that will generate energy from waste, including the garbage about which my hon. Colleague is talking. So, we are considering that option. If Kanyama is very interested in it, we are willing to support its efforts.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, Kalumbila Mine has been pleading to be allowed to import power from South Africa, which it claims is cheaper, and that was revealed to the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour Matters a few months ago when it toured the mine. My question is: Should the negotiations among the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO), Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) and the three mining giants hit a snag come 30^th October, 2017, will the Government consider allowing Kalumbila and Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) to import power from South Africa?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, ZESCO is a parastatal company involved in power generation and trading. So, it is a monopoly whose market we need to safeguard. In this regard, the Electricity Act empowers the Minister responsible for energy to accept or reject an application for any person to import power. So, I can only consider the possibility of allowing Kalumbila to import power if the negotiations between the mine and ZESCO actually hit a snag. For now, I do not want to speculate.

I thank you, Madam.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, is this Government not subjecting us to excessively high electricity tariffs? We appreciated the need for some movements, but have the increments not gone overboard? I ask this question because, firstly, as we have heard, the electricity tariff is lower in South Africa, yet the Government is preventing private firms from importing power. Secondly, the cost of producing electricity in Zambia is much lower compared with the cost in the countries that have the tariff levels that are being introduced here because our electricity is predominantly hydro power. Thirdly, the Government is now being influenced to lamp these high tariffs on us by private operators who will not survive when, for example, Inga and Batoka Gorge Hydro Power Projects come on board because power will be much cheaper. What is the hon. Minister’s comment?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, earlier, I gave an example of how ZESCO buys power from Maamba Coal-Fired Power Plant at 10.35₵/kWh and sells it, on average, at 5.47₵/kWh. Therefore, I do not agree with Hon. Dr Musokotwane that our tariffs are excessive. I also stated that the average cost at which we import power is 12.90₵/kWh. In view of that, the 5.47₵/kWh that Zambians have been asked to pay cannot be described as excessive because, in fact, the Government still subsidises the cost of electricity for end users. So, the tariffs in this country are not yet cost-reflective.

Madam, the hon. Member mentioned Inga and Batoka Gorge Hydro Power Projects. Indeed, the development of those projects will be important because they will enhance competition, which always benefits the customers. For example, when Lafarge Cement Zambia Limited was the only supplier of cement, its prices were very high and continued rising. However, when Dangote Cement Limited came on board, it had a positive effect on cement prices in this country.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, what measures is the Government putting in place to make energy-saving bulbs affordable, bearing in mind that most people in rural areas use incandescent bulbs?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, if my memory serves me well, in the 2014 Budget Address by the then Minister of Finance, Mr Chikwanda, there was a waiver of duty on energy-saving bulbs. However, the pricing of the bulbs on the market is still quite high, and we will sit down with our colleagues from the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) to see what can be done. Initially, the idea was that ZESCO would open up shops from which people could buy energy-efficient electrical products cheaply. However, that was not done and the private sector started selling those products. 

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Madam Speaker, my question is a follow up on the one asked by the hon. Member for Mbala. In the event that the study shows that the current levels are still low, is there a possibility that the tariffs will be raised again?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I do not want to speculate on whether we will increase the tariffs. However, I have already said that we do not think the current tariffs are cost-reflective.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, the Government has engaged a consultant to conduct a cost-of-service study whose findings will be the basis of the Government’s decision on whether to continue with the current tariffs or adjust them. When we get the report, I will come back to this august House to inform my hon. Colleagues and the people of Zambia about the position the Government will take.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, if the findings of the study will be that the current tariffs are too high, will the Government be able to adjust them downwards? Can you tell the hon. Members of this House and the public at large whether ZESCO will adjust the tariffs downwards. That is the question.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, This august House created the ERB, which is an independent authority vested with the power to adjust tariffs. So, assuming the tariffs are found to be too high or too low after the study, the utility company will apply to the ERB to adjust the tariffs. So, as Minister, I would not make a decision on behalf of the ERB.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Miti (Feira): Madam Speaker, the problem we currently have regarding electricity tariffs in Zambia is that the private sector has been allowed to participate in this industry of generating power, meaning that private companies have to compete with the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO), which is the major power distributor. Are there plans to unbundle ZESCO so that it concentrates on distribution instead of on both generation and distribution?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, that is a very interesting question. However, I intend to issue another statement to this House on the restructuring of ZESCO. The hon. Members can ask questions on that subject then.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, the talk of the Government currently is that it is investing a lot in power generation projects. However, electricity tariffs keep going up. Is the Government still importing power? If so, at what tariff? Further, do we still export power? If we do, at what tariff, and how does that affect the common Zambian?

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has asked many questions, but I will answer them.

Madam, I have stated that the Government still imports power at an average cost of 12.90/kWh. The export of power, on the other hand, is negligible given that we have just come out of circumstances characterised by a power deficit. Therefore, much of the power that we currently generate is consumed internally.

Madam, if we do not import power when we have a deficit, the people of Mitete, although not yet connected to the National Electricity Grid, unlike their neighbours in Lukulu, will be affected because the barber shop and the saloon owners, and the people selling frozen chickens and beef products in Lukulu will lose business. That is the effect of importation and exportation of power on the common man. Therefore, ZESCO has to balance the two. When the country has a power deficit, we have to import power so that, for example, Lukulu District Hospital can have the power needed to treat the common people to whom the hon. Member referred.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Siwale (Mafinga): Madam Speaker, some investors have come to Zambia, particularly in Mafinga Constituency, to invest in wind and solar energy. Since the Government is aware that Mafinga is not connected to the National Electricity Grid, why has it not allowed the investors into the area?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Although the question is not related to the statement, I ask the hon. Minister of Energy to answer it.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I assure my hon. Colleague and the people of Mafinga Constituency that ZESCO is investing in a project to connect their area to the national grid. I know that the project has been delayed because ZESCO did not have sufficient money to complete it.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I know that there are many unsolicited people who are interested in investing in wind energy because of the good wind prevalence in the constituency. That is why the ministry decided to subject all applicants, as many as 1,000, to a competitive tender process. You will agree with me that the Zambian electricity market is too small to accommodate that many projects. We can only select some of the applicant. So, the hon. Member can tell the investors who are already exploring that investment opportunity that they are free to participate in the bidding process.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Madam Speaker, do the mining houses negotiate power supply agreements individually or collectively?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, historically, the mining houses used to negotiate collectively through the Chamber of Mines. However, we learnt some bitter lessons from that and changed our approach. So, in the 2016/2017 negotiations, ZESCO, the CEC and the ministry negotiate with individual mines.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Speaker, in answering the question asked by Hon. Kasonso of Solwezi West Constituency on the tariff at which ZESCO exports power to neighbouring countries, the hon. Minister declined to give a categorical answer, but said that the rate was not much. If what he said is true, why does the Government bother to export power?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I answered the question in the context of the 2015 power deficit the country experienced, and it was important for me to indicate that, from that history, our power exports have been very minimal because we need to satisfy the local demand before we can export. However, when generation outstrips demand, ZESCO will be able to export power. Unfortunately, I do not have a figure, in terms of export tariff quantum, and I do not want to mislead my hon. Colleagues and the Zambian people. However, I can share some information with my colleagues based on our previous exports of power to our neighbouring countries.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chali (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, one of the most expensive sources of power in Zambia is the Kapowership. Since our power generation has improved, what is the plan regarding that deal?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, when we had the power deficit in 2015, the Kapowership was one of our suppliers of energy. Unfortunately, the contract we signed with that ship is one we cannot easily terminate despite the improvement in our power output. So, we want it to terminate naturally in the first quarter of 2018.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Kucheka (Zambezi West): Madam Speaker, is the Government monitoring the environmental impact of the excessive use of charcoal and firewood to which people resorted after the increase in electricity tariffs?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, our people were using charcoal and firewood even before the increase in tariffs. In fact, the hon. Members from rural constituencies know that our people have depended on biomass for many years. I, therefore, do not agree that it is the adjustment of the tariffs that has led people to resorting to the use of biomass. However, I agree that it would be useful for us to conduct an investigation on that topic with the help of the Forestry Department of the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources. I also want to inform the hon. Member for Zambezi West that we share his concerns, as evidenced by our decision to allow a few companies to investigate the possibility of setting up power plants using biomass. We want to provide power more cheaply and conventionally so that our people can stop using firewood and charcoal.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

STATUS OF THE DECLARATION OF A THREATENED STATE OF PUBLIC EMERGENCY

The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to update the House on a matter of national importance.

Madam Speaker, you will recall that on 5^th July, 2017, His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, invoked the provisions of Article 31 of the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, Chapter 1 of the Laws of Zambia, thereby declaring a threatened state of public emergency. The reasons given by the President for the declaration were the unexplained fire outbreaks and systematic vandalism of strategic installations bordering on economic sabotage that the country had experienced. The events were as follows:

(a) the setting ablaze of Tambala Market in Bauleni, Lusaka, in August, 2016;

(b) the setting ablaze of the Mongu Local Court in April, 2017;

(c) the setting ablaze of Luburma Market in Kamwala, Lusaka, in April, 2017;

(d) the attempt to set ablaze the Intercity Bus Terminus in Lusaka in April, 2017. A person was apprehended for the attempted act of arson;

(e) the arrest of four youths who were found with substances capable of causing fire outside the Lusaka Central Correctional facility;

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Daka: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I will repeat that point because somebody has questioned it.

Mr Lubinda repeated the point.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Lubinda:

(f) the setting ablaze of the Kafue District Education Board’s offices on 1^st May, 2017. Two containers of petrol were found on the scene;

(g) vandalism of Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) pylons in Ndola on 1^st June, 2017, which left 10,000 households without electricity;

(h) vandalism of the Kafue/Lusaka West Line ZESCO pylons, which serviced households and industries;

(i) the setting ablaze of the Lusaka City Market, the country’s largest market, which led to the unfortunate destruction of property worth millions of kwacha; and

(j) outbreak of a fire that seemed to have been targeted at ZESCO pylons in Lusaka’s Misisi Township Market on the same day that the Lusaka City Market was burnt.

Madam Speaker, Article 31 of the Constitution provides that:

“31(1) The President may at any time by the Proclamation published in Gazette declare that a situation exists which, if allowed to continue, may lead to a state of public emergency.

“(2)      A declaration made under clause (1) of this Article shall cease to have effect on the expiration of a period of seven days commencing with the day on which the declaration is made unless, before the expiration of such period, it has been approved by a resolution of the National Assembly supported by a majority of all the Members thereof not accounting the Speaker.

“(3)      In reckoning any period of seven days for the purpose of clause (2) account shall not be taken of any time during which Parliament is dissolved.

“(4)      A declaration made under clause (1) may, at any time before it has been approved by a resolution of the National Assembly, be revoked by the President by Proclamation published in the Gazette.

“(5)      Subject to clause (6), a resolution of the National Assembly under clause (2) will continue in force until the expiration of a period of three months commencing with the date of its being approved or until revoked on an earlier date of its being so approved or until such earlier as may be specified in the resolution.

“(6)      The National Assembly may, by resolution, at any time revoke resolution made by it under this Article.

“(7)      Whenever an election to the office of President results in a change in the holder of that office,     any declaration made under this Article and in force immediately before the day on which the President assumes office, shall cease to have effect on the expiration of seven days commencing with that day.

“(8)      The expiration or revocation of any declaration or resolution made under this Article shall not affect the validity of anything previously done in reliance of such declaration”.

Madam Speaker, pursuant to Article 31(2) of the Constitution, on 11^th July, 2017, this august House approved the proclamation made by His Excellency the President hon. Members of that a situation existed which, if allowed to continue, would have degenerated into a state of public emergency. 

Madam Speaker, in line with the provisions of the Constitution, the proclamation was signed by His Excellency the President on 5^th July, 2017, and has been in force for a period of ninety days, from 11^th July, 2017, the date of its approval by this House, to midnight tonight. The effect of the expiration of the period relating to threatened emergency is that the application of the Preservation of Public Security Act, Chapter 112 of the Laws of Zambia, and the Preservation of Public Security Regulations, Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 55 of 2017 will be suspended. Therefore, the declaration will, in accordance with Article 31, duly expire at midnight tonight.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: I wish to state, however, that the expiration of the state of threatened state of public emergency is not and should not be misconstrued to be an invitation to any person to break the law, ...

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Lubinda: … as other laws will remain in force.

Madam Speaker, allow me to enjoin all of us to continue to be patriotic, diligent, observant, peaceful and law-abiding citizens and residents of this great country as we go about our daily lives.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Justice.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam Speaker, I am truly indebted to the hon. Minister for issuing this statement. Before I ask my question, let me take this opportunity to add my voice to the voices of those who have commiserated with those who lost property during the trying circumstances that led to the invocation of Article 31 of the Constitution.

Madam Speaker, I think that the hon. Minister exceeded our expectations in his response to the fire incidents. When he was interviewed on the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) News on whether he knew the people who were behind the fires, he responded that he did not. He also said that if the Government knew the culprits, it would have arrested them.

Madam, my question is: Have the authorities arrested the culprits? Further, is there any reason the hon. Minister elected to exclude the fire that gutted Kapalala Market on the Copperbelt from his catalogue of events?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I will reiterate that had the Government known the individuals behind those fires, it would have not wasted any time in arresting them. As all of us know, the reason for the invocation of Article 31 was to accord the police additional power to arrest and conduct investigations, and that was premised on the fact that we did not know the culprits. The police may have had suspects, but we did not know the culprits.

Madam, I did not include the fire at Kapalala Market because I was not sure whether it occurred before the invocation of Article 31. I conferred with the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, but he is equally not sure. However, let me seize this opportunity to inform my hon. Colleague, the Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central, that the list of incidences to which I referred is not exhaustive. There were other fires that occurred during that period to which I have not referred and Kapalala Market can be one of them.

Madam, let me emphasise that the expiration of the invocation of Article 31 does not mean that the police will stop investigating those incidences. Some suspects are still being followed up and those who will be found wanting will be brought to the book.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, my question is similar to the one asked by Hon. Nkombo. I also want to find out who the perpetrators of the fires were.

Madam Speaker: The hon. Minister has already dealt with that.

Mr Mukumbuta: Mr Speaker, my question is a bit different.

Laughter

Mr Mukumbuta: Madam, how many people were arrested in the ninety days of the invocation of Article 31? Could the hon. Minister also tell this august House and the nation to which political parties those people belonged.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I have said that the police are still actively investigating those matters and I assure the hon. Member that, in due season, the hon. Minister responsible for police, who arrest and law-breakers, will ask for your permission to inform the House on the investigations.  Only when the police have arrested the culprits will we know whether the fires were politically motivated or not. No wonder, in my statement, I did not refer to the involvement of any political parties. My hon. Colleague should, therefore, restrict himself to issues I have raised in my statement because they are the only ones on which I can speak authoritatively.

Madam, I thank you.

Mr Livune: Madam Speaker, does the law exclude the testimony of the volunteers found on sites, who have publicly narrated on television and social media what transpired in the cause of the investigations? I have asked this question because we have not heard any reports on the usefulness of the police and Patriotic Front (PF) cadres who were on the scene.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Which scene, hon. Member?

Mr Livune: The City Market, Madam.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I was about to emulate my friend by saying ‘Question!’ when he was asking me the question because it was not clear what he was talking about.

Madam, if I am to extend my imagination as to what he was aiming at, I would to say that if there people who have information that they want to volunteer to the police, nothing stops them from providing it. Further, if the hon. Member knows people who have information that will lead us to the arrest of the culprits, which I am starting to suspect he does, instead of just saying “Question!” to them, he should, please, tell them to volunteer that information to the police because that is a civic responsibility of every citizen. They should not shy away from doing so.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, now that the threat of the state of emergency is ending at midnight tonight, does the hon. Minister promise the people Zambia that they will be allowed to exercise their freedom of movement, and right to protest and demonstrate freely whenever they are aggrieved?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I had the opportunity to brief the press over this matter and inform citizens who felt that their rights were being infringed upon by any police officer under the guise of the invocation of Article 31 that they were at liberty to bring such matters to the attention of the Police Public Complaints Authority (PPCA), the Police Command or Ministry of Justice. However, to date, not a single person has lodged in such a complaint.

Mr Jamba: Tutwa!

Mr Lubinda: I wish to state that people continued to enjoy their rights even during the period of the proclamation, albeit within the confines of the law. Going forward, they will continue to do so.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, it is clear that the invocation of Article 31 has tainted the image of this country abroad and those in the tourism sector were adversely affected by it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jere: Is the hon. Minister in a position to tell us how much money was used from the time the proclamation was made to date?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Did you ask how much has been used?

Mr Jere: Yes, Madam, how much money was spent on police operations.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, firstly, let me borrow the words of one colleague who, a few days ago, spoke about how we see the world. We see the world based on our perceptions. So, I do not blame the hon. Minister for Livingstone for …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

He is the ‘hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone’.

Mr Lubinda: Yes, Madam, the hon. Member for Livingstone. I withdraw the appointment with immediate effect because it was the result of a slip of my tongue.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Madam, I do not blame the hon. Member for his analysis and conclusion, which is obviously influenced by and premised on his biases, just like I do not fault people who have told us that by invoking Article 31, we had assured them that this Government was in control and that it would not shy away from taking the necessary action when there were threats to the economy and property.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Lubinda: I do not think it is within my remit to do so. That is his opinion and I will leave him to it.

Madam Speaker, secondly, when Article 31 was invoked and approved by Parliament, there is not a single person who said we were coming up with any additional programme on the security of the country that would require additional money. As such, I do not think that anyone can come here to mention an amount of money that has been spent on maintaining peace and security in the country because the ministries of Home Affairs and Defence, and all other ministries operated within their budgets. So, those who care to know such matters can look at the money allocated by this Parliament to those institutions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Evg. Shabula (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, I hope the hon. Minister of Justice will also confer on me the title of Minister of Itezhi-tezhi.

Laughter

Evg. Shabula: Madam, we all know that there are many people who cook in the markets while others sell inflammables, and I that the police and everyone else know that fact. Things like braziers are often left burning and there is no order or care. What preventive measures will we put in place so that we do not have a recurrence of the recent fire incidents in markets?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, the fires to which I referred were not confined to markets. Further, no one should attempt to insinuate that the fires in the markets were the result of the conduct of business in inflammable materials or use of fire in markets because other properties were set ablaze that had nothing to do with fire or inflammable materials. For examples, there are no fires used in courtrooms, near electricity pylons or in schools.

Madam, with regard to general preventive measures, I assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Itezhi-tezhi, whom I hope will continue to be in his position until the end of his term, that the hon. Minister of Local Government, who is responsible for markets, is in charge of the situation and has already issued instructions to all local authorities to ensure that markets are safeguarded against fire outbreaks.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, thank you very much …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, thank you for according me the opportunity to raise a point of order on the hon. Minister of Justice.

Madam, in his response to the question asked by the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi, the hon. Minister cast an aspersions on the hon. Member’s likelihood of being in the House for the duration of the Twelfth Nation Assembly.

Mr Lubinda: What is the point of order?

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Justice, who works closely with the Judiciary, in order to start …

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda showed dissent.

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes, you do. That is your responsibility.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, is he in order to question the presence of the hon. Member in this House for the duration of the Twelfth National Assembly, taking into account that there is an active case in court on the matter?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I do not know the issues surrounding the hon. Member’s membership in this House. However, I can confirm that he is the hon. Member of Parliament representing the people of Itezhi-tezhi. I was made to believe that the statement in question was a slip of the hon. Minister’s tongue.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: However, if he was trying to communicate something to the benefit of the hon. Member, whom I heard say that he wanted to be appointed a Minister, perhaps, he should clarify the position as he responds to the question to be asked by the hon. Member for Kabompo.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, the catalogue of fires the hon. Minister read out were, indeed, very unfortunate events, and I, too, commiserate with the people who have been adversely affected. Their nature, frequency and timing left much to be desired. However, my question is: Did the fires necessitate the unveiling of the infamous forty-two fire trucks whose procurement is shrouded in much controversy and suspicions of corruption?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I cannot confirm anything about corruption or any procurement. I would rather leave that to the competent authorities because I cannot allow myself to be joined to the speculation that surrounds this matter. Suffice it for me to say that those who have followed the discourse on the fire trucks know that their procurement was totally unrelated to the incidence of the fires because, as we were informed, the process started way back in 2015. I hope that clarifies the matter for Hon. Lufuma.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Colleague, the Member of Parliament for point of order, sorry, for Monze Central, that was another slip of the tongue ...

Madam, the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central raised that very important point of order, I am sure, to just remind me that my hon. Colleague, the Member of Parliament for Itezhi-tezhi, asked me to confer the position of Minister on him in jest. In that regard, I think that Hon. Jack Mwiimbu knows that those who go to others in jest must expect to be received in jest. In fact, I think that the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi took what I said in the same fashion he expected me to take what he said to me. Why Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, Member of Parliament for Monze Central and Leader of the Opposition, chose to make an issue out of it I do not know . 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: ... because I keep my own thoughts. I may be a brother’s keeper but, surely, God forbid that I be a keeper of other people’s morals.

Madam, I appeal to all of us to talk to one another as friends and exchange such pleasantries as I accepted happily from my hon. Colleague, who knows that I do not have the power whatsoever to appoint anyone Minister and that my attribution of the title to the hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone was a slip of the tongue.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kasune (Keembe): Madam Speaker, we all acknowledge the misfortune that befell those who were affected by the fires and I hope that they benefited from the support of the Government and well-wishers. That said, what measures have been put in place to avoid similar incidents in the future, especially given that they raised a lot of political speculation?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, we, as a country, really ought to learn from such bad experiences so that we can avoid their recurrence. In that regard, there are many things that the Government is putting in place, one of which is the procurement of fire-fighting equipment. Further, like I have already indicated, the hon. Minister of Local Government has reached out to local authorities to encourage them to make their markets more fire-resistant. For example, the rebuilding of City Market and other markets that were burnt down will be done from the ‘build better’ approach. Equally, we should build structures that are more fire-resistant. 

Madam, unfortunately, we are responsible for the political overtones that surrounded the fires. As you may recall, after City Market was gutted, some people, for whatever reason, took to the media, social media in particular, to celebrate and claim that they would encourage other places to be gutted instead of commiserating with the people who had lost property, and that was what gave the political undertone to the case. So, the first lesson that we should learn is that when such events occur, we must approach them as a united country. The suffering of one Zambian, irrespective of his or her political affiliation, must be painful to the rest of us and the burning of one Government property must be a loss to all of us. Anyone who takes pride in seeing Zambian property go up in flames should be condemned not only by the Government, but by all peace-loving Zambians irrespective of their political affiliation. So, I encourage all of us to rise above pettiness. Such incidents should not be viewed as occasions for settling political scores, as they are occasions for us to unite and face the challenges. We have only one country, and it is very dear to all of us, both those who are privileged to be in Government today and to those who aspire to be in it tomorrow. 

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Madam Speaker, whoever was behind the fires must appear before the courts of this country. However, before the fires, we had already seen some strange things happen in this country. For example, we all recall seeing people trying to bring down a chopper using stones.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyanda: After the fires, as the hon. Minister rightly put it, some people celebrated on social media. I certainly did not do that. We also read sad things on social media, such as the insinuation that a neighbour of the hon. Minister of Justice was behind the fires. Does the hon. Minister think that the investigations into who started the fires will to anywhere, considering that some people have been accused of having been behind the fires?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Justice, did you get the question?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I hope I did, but the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya’s allegation that my neighbour was behind those fires worries me. I have a number of neighbours and I am sure they are listening to Parliament Radio or watching Parliament Television right now. So, I wonder whether the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya …

Mr Kampyongo: Needs mental examination!

Mr Lubinda: … is willing to indicate which of my neighbours …

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … was behind these fires because I am sure that my neighbours will come to my house and ask the moment I get home.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, this is a very serious allegation that the hon. Member has made on the Floor of the House.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Please, resume your seat.

My understanding is that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya is wondering whether the investigations would yield positive results. In his question, he gave what I want to believe was an example. For instance, where you are seated, somebody could allege that your neighbour was behind the fires. That is the context of the question.

Perhaps, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya would like to restate the question.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyanda: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam, the way you interpreted my question is how I meant it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Restate the question, hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya.

Laughter

Mr Miyanda: Madam Speaker, just before the fires started, we read on social media and saw television reports of some people were trying to bring down a chopper using stones, and that was quite strange behaviour in our country. After the fires started, we all read on social media that a top Government official might have been behind them. Therefore, my question still is: Does the hon. Minister think these investigations will take us anywhere, bearing those allegations in mind?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The Minister will not respond to the part of the question that refers to the allegation about the involvement of a top official in the starting of the fires because he has already clearly stated that the investigations are ongoing. Therefore, he should restrict himself to the part on whether the investigations will yield positive results.

Mr Lubinda: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam, for the sake of my neighbours, I am glad that you asked the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya to clarify his question because it is now clear that he was not talking about my neighbours at my house but, probably, the ones in Parliament, and that makes a very big difference.

Yes, Madam Speaker, I indicated that the investigations are ongoing, and I assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya, this House and the nation at large that whoever will be found wanting will be brought before the law no matter who he or she is. That is my assurance.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Madam …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for giving the opportunity to raise this point of order. I sincerely apologise to my dear Colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwe Central, for disturbing his flow of thought. I had to do it because I am extremely baffled by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya, who is not new to this House.

Madam, speaking for the ministry that is pursuing the people behind the cases of arson, I will not accept the kind of joking and mediocrity exhibited by the hon. Member in our debates and questions.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Mmm, awe! Question!

Mr Kampyongo: Is the hon. Member …

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: Who are you?

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Hon. Minister, can you, please, raise your point of order.

Mr Kampyongo: Madam, was the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya in order to peddle innuendos that he cannot substantiate …

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: … when asking the hon. Minister of Justice a question? He made allegations about the hon. Minister’s neighbours. Was he in order to conduct himself in the manner he did in this august House?

I seek your serious ruling.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister is aware that points of order must be raised contemporaneously and that the hon. Minister to whom the question was put has adequately dealt with it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is the ruling of the Chair.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwe Central, you may continue with your question.

Mr Ngulube: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam, will the Zambia Police Service be enlightened on the expiration of the Invocation of Article 31? Will some police officers still be allowed to demand that hon. Members of Parliament like me get permission from them whenever they go to their constituencies?

Mr Nkombo: Ema lawyers aba!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, Hon. Tutwa Ngulube must have stepped out of the House yesterday when this matter was very eloquently raised by Hon. Gary Nkombo and adequately debated.

Mr Nkombo indicated assent.

Mr Lubinda: Madam, the Minister of Home Affairs indicated that, at an opportune time, he would bring to this House the circular that had been agreed upon among the Hon. Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and we, the Parliamentarians to the effect that Members of Parliament can go into their constituencies to hold meetings without having to inform the police. I think that was very well concluded yesterday.

Madam, I also wish to inform Hon. Tutwa Ngulube that the Inspector-General of Police is knows that the Invocation of Article 31 will come to an end at midnight tonight, and all the officers under his charge will be informed accordingly. However, with your permission, I wish to inform the House that even Cabinet Ministers do inform the police for the sake of their own security when they go to various areas to hold meetings. So, having been a Member of Parliament for a number of years, I wish to inform those who will come after me that it is always wise to inform the police whenever we hold public meetings for our security ...

Mr Miyanda: Why?

Mr Lubinda: … and that of others.

Mr Jere: Question!

Mr Lubinda: I will leave those who are saying “Question!” to face the reality on their own, but it is wise to learn from others. I am simply giving counsel because of the benefit of experiences I have had.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: When we inform the police, it does not mean that we are being subservient to them. Rather, it is because it is their duty to protect us and the people with whom we interact.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, mine is a follow-up on the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone, who wanted to know how much money was spent during the ninety days of the state of threatened emergency. The hon. Minister replied that no money was spent. However, I am aware that in Monze, for example, immediately after the state of threatened public emergency was announced, we saw many paramilitary police officers invade the town for a long period of time and a number of suspects were transported ...

Mr Mweetwa: By air!

Mr Chaatila: ... by air and road to be remanded in Lusaka. Is the hon. Minister implying that such activities would have been undertaken even if there was no state of threatened emergency?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I can confirm that all the activities that took place could have taken place even if the state of threatened emergency was not in place. The only thing that the invocation of Article 31 did was give the police additional powers. The maintenance of peace and order continued to be done normally and there were no additional allocations after the invocation of Article 31. There is no money that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs can say was spent as a result of the innovation of Article 31.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kintu (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, my question is a rider to the question asked by the hon. Member for Kabwe Central.

Madam, why should hon. Members of Parliament rely on the circular agreed upon among the Hon. Mr Speaker and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs when the right to assemble and associate is enshrined in the Constitution?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member for Solwezi East spent is willing to listen more and talking to his neighbours less, ...

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: ... I would like to inform him that all rights and freedoms have limitations. There is a Public Order Act in this country that regulates the conduct of assemblies and demonstrations. That Act, which is a creature of this Parliament, only exempts from its observance hon. Ministers, Her Honour the Vice-President, His Excellency the President and religious organisations. Hon. Members of Parliament are not exempted. So, the question my colleague should ask is why the law is written in that manner. That is the reason the matter had to be negotiated among hon. Members of Parliament, the Hon. Mr Speaker and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. The law requires all, except those exempted, to notify the police. However, the exclusion is purely administrative. Therefore, whether we like it or not, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has discretion over whom to exempt from the requirements. That is what the law says.

Madam Speaker, last week I indicated that it was not right for us, hon. Members of Parliament, to quarrel with the laws that we enact. If we are not happy with the provisions of the law, we should use the power we have to amend them. So, if my colleague is unhappy with the Public Order Act, he should initiate an amendment to it. In fact, in March, 2017, I asked those who had issues with the Public Order Act to engage the Ministry of Justice so that I could sit with my counterpart at the Ministry of Home Affairs to consider the suggestions, but I have not received any submissions from my colleague from Solwezi.

I thank you, Madam Speaker,

Mr Nanjuwa: Madam Speaker, the Government had indicated that it would compensate the victims of the fires. Has the compensation process begun? If so, what criterion is being used to determine how much each victim lost?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, there is no such thing as compensation for the victims. I do not know where my colleague got that information from because we are not compensating people. You only compensate a person when you are responsible for the loss suffered. In this case, we were not responsible for that loss. What the Government has done, and that must not be misconstrued to mean compensation because it would send a wrong signal, is search the souls of the people in leadership. It is purely the humanity of the people in Government ...

Mr Mwale: Correct!

Mr Lubinda: ... that led them to provide some relief to the victims. In fact, I was on television addressing marketeers in the constituency I am privileged to represent and, through them, all the marketeers and business people in Zambia, on how they must be aware of the risks associated with their businesses and take insurance policies so that they can be compensated in the event of loss of property or business. So, hon. Member should not tell people in his constituency that we are compensating people whose property was gutted, as that would send a very wrong signal.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Hon. Member, when you ask what criterion we are using, what criterion do you use when you give your friends what you want to give them? It is the same criterion you use when you decide to give your children or friends some relief.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Speak through the Chair.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, the same criterion he uses ...

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: ... when giving relief to bereaved families or those who have lost crops because of bad weather in his constituency, if he does that at all, is the one that the gallant men and women in the Patriotic Front (PF) Government are using.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I assure the hon. Member that we are following the matter very keenly because we know that people lost property. However, it should not be projected as if the victims are entitled to the assistance we are providing to them because the whole exercise hinges on the good will of this Government. By the way, most of the being given does not come from the Treasury. It is being mobilised by the noble leaders in the PF Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

__________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

MINIMUM WAGES AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT

56. Mr W. Banda (Milanzi) (on behalf of Mr C. M. Zulu (Luangeni)) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a) whether the Government had any plan to review Statutory Instruments (SIs) Numbers 46 and 47 of 2012, which relate to the minimum wages and conditions of employment; and

(b) if so, when the plan would be implemented.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mrs Simukoko): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to review the Minimum Wages and Conditions of Employment Act of 2012.  It should be noted that the statutory instruments (SIs) on minimum wages, which were last revised in 2012, included the following:

(a) SI No. 45 of 2012 (The Minimum Wages and Conditions of Employment  ((Domestic Workers)) Amendment Order, 2012);

(b) SI No. 46 of 2012 (The Minimum Wages and Conditions of Employment ((General))  Amendment Order, 2012); and

(c) SI No. 47 of 2012 (The Minimum Wages and Conditions of Employment ((Shop Workers)) Amendment Order, 2012).

Madam Speaker, the revision of the minimum wages in Zambia is governed by the Minimum Wages and Conditions of Employment Act No. 276 of the Laws of Zambia, which empowers the Minister responsible for labour, if he or she is of the opinion that no adequate provision exists for the effective regulation of minimum wages or conditions of employment for any group of workers, to prescribe the regulation of wages by statutory order, including the following:

(a) rates of wages to be paid to workers by the hour, day, week or month;

(b) normal hours of work in any day or week;

(c) normal working days in any week or month;

(d) rates of wages for any work done in excess of or outside the normal hours or days of work;

(e) rates for paid holidays or any conditions attaching to the granting of such holidays;

(f) rates for any piece work;

(g) rates for any allowances for food or housing; and

(h) any other matter that, in the opinion of the Minister, is necessary or expedient to prescribe.

Madam Speaker, the review or changing of the minimum wages and conditions of employment is usually done through a consultative tripartite process involving parties like the Government, the Zambia Federation of Employers (ZFE) and trade unions. The law requires that, if a group of workers in respect of which a statutory order is to be made is represented by a trade union, no such order shall be made before the trade union is consulted. Additionally, the law provides for any person affected by a statutory order made under this section to apply to the Minister for a review of such order.

Madam, while the Minister is empowered to issue statutory regulations to revise the minimum wages, convention requires adequate consultation with relevant stakeholders and reaching of an agreement on main issues through a process that is often very lengthy. The reviews are also informed by data provided by the Central Statistical Office (CSO) on the food basket and general inflation levels. The employers’ ability to pay is another important factor that is considered.

Madam Speaker, the last review of the minimum wages and conditions of employment was characterised by acrimony and protests from some stakeholders who were unhappy with the new rates, which they perceived as being too high. The ZFE even took the Government to court, but the court ruled in favour of the Government. That underscored the challenges faced in the review process.

Madam Speaker, ministry is currently undertaking labour reforms that will see the harmonisation of the different labour legislations into the Labour Code, which has introduced the Labour Advisory Committee. The committee will advise the Government on the determination of the minimum wage for the various sectors. The Government is also in the process of implementing new measures that will develop sector-specific minimum wages and conditions of employment that will take care of sector-specific challenges and opportunities. This, too, requires extensive consultations with all the relevant stakeholders. In that regard, the Draft Minimum Wages and Conditions of Employment for the Agriculture Sector has been developed and submitted to the Ministry of Justice.

Madam Speaker, during the Tripartite Consultative Labour Council meeting held in April, 2017, which was attended by the representatives of the Government, the ZFE, the Zambia Congress of Trade Unions (ZCTU), the Federation of Free Trade Unions of Zambia (FFTUZ) and the Confederation of Trade Unions of Zambia (CTUZ), it was resolved that the review of the minimum wages and conditions of employment commenced in 2017. Accordingly, the ministry has started the preparations for consultative meetings with its social partners and other key stakeholders, such as the ministries of Finance, and Commerce, Trade and Industry, and the Public Service Management Division (PSMD) on the revision of the minimum wages for various sectors.

Madam, the review will be finalised by 31^st December, 2017. Thereafter, the ministry will develop sector-specific minimum wages and conditions of employment progressively.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr W. Banda: Madam Speaker, how often is the minimum wage revised? Further, who are the participants in the revision?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, the normal time is four years. However, the Minister responsible for labour matters is empowered to call for the review at any time he or she deems necessary.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kundoti (Luena): Madam Speaker, the subject of minimum wages is somehow a thorny issue in this country, as most of our people who are employed by the so-called investors find it difficult to get adequate remunerations for their labour. Some people who work for Chinese firms are paid salaries that are not even enough to sustain their families, yet they make a lot of money for their employers. In a situation like that, our people believe that the hon. Minister will fight for them to get fair remuneration for their labour. What is the ministry doing to ensure that investors abide by labour laws of this country and pay fair salaries to our people?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, as I said earlier, the Minimum Wages and Conditions of Employment Act provides for the minimum conditions of service for the lowest paid category of people. Once we conclude discussions for the minimum wage, we make them public. Most of the workers for which the minimum conditions of service are prescribed are not represented by trade unions. So, when we make the document public, we need to be supported. Every day, I say that our people should get interested in knowing their entitlements. Sometimes, we do some radio, television and newspaper publicity to raise awareness. In that regard, I appeal to Zambian workers to not just find pleasure in reading what is shared on social media, most of which are just insults. Instead, they should read materials that add value to their lives.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Simukoko: Most of the problems that we face are simply due to a lack of knowledge.

Mr Ngulube: E counselling iyi!

Mrs Simukoko: God is very clear that people will perish if they lack knowledge.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Simukoko: All the relevant documents are readily available everywhere and any employee who knows that he or she is being exploited has the right to report to the ministry if not represented by any union. 

 Madam, during the time I have been at the ministry, I have noted that people have the impression that the only people who are cruel to their workers are foreign investors, but our records paint a different picture. Zambians are very cruel to their workers and pay below the minimum wage. So, let us not just concentrate on foreign investors, but look at ourselves as well. Are we doing what is correct?

Mr Ng’onga: That is right.

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, the minimum wage for domestic workers is K555 per month, yet some of our people pay their workers K300. So, if we do not respect our laws, who will? That is why we try to educate our people on the need to respect our laws. The Labour Commissioner often goes on radio to sensitise citizens on the conditions of service. I appeal to hon. Members of Parliament to also help us explain the laws they make to the people. As a ministry, we have done our part. However, as I said earlier, the last revision was in 2012, but this is now 2017. So, you can imagine what our people are going through.

Madam Speaker, when the minimum wage was revised, there was a lot of resistance, mainly from our people. I hope that when we table this issue for discussion we will get all the support that we need because our people in this category have not had an increment of the wages for the past five years, yet their conditions should be revised every four years.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima (Milenge): Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister, my fellow former Zambia Union of Financial and Allied Workers (ZUFIAW) member, for her elaborate explanation.

Madam, the hon. Minister mentioned that the revision of the minimum wage was characterised by acrimony, and I agree with her. In that regard, on a scale of one to ten, how would she rate the level of compliance by employers? Further, what are some of the practical lessons learnt from that experience?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, there has been a very big improvement in the rate of compliance. Although, I do not know the actual percentages, I can say that we are not very far from what we expected and I am very happy that many Zambians are encouraging us to revise the minimum wage as quickly as possible. Very few people have not complied. Maybe, it is because Zambia is a Christian nation and people are now changing their attitudes. I can also assure you that with the coming on board of the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), we intend to extend social security coverage this category of workers and it will be easier for us to know those who will not comply.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Can you also talk about the lessons you have learnt that will help you to do things better, going forward?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, the lessons are many, but I insist that the beneficiaries must be proactive because the people who are paying them money will definitely give all sorts of excuses. So, the main lesson we have learnt is that most of our people are ignorant about labour laws. So, going forward, we will be more vigilant, especially since the Government has bought vehicles for our inspectors. We will be going round to check how people are treated and how employees comply with labour laws.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, in 2012, when Statutory Instruments (SIs) No. 46 and 44 were issued, we heard that there was a lot of resistance from manufacturers, employers and many other people. The Government, then, said that it would re-engage the stakeholders. However, things remained hanging and some people were being threatened with dismissal if they insisted on being paid the minimum wage. We also heard some employees say that it did not matter to them whether they were paid the minimum wage or not because all they needed was a job that paid them something with which to buy food for their families. We also saw protests at some chain stores like Game and Shoprite, which were believed to be the major culprits in non-compliance with the minimum wage. When the negotiations begin, this time around, will the hon. Minister involve those stores or will she just set the minimum wage and risk those shops starting firing people who demand to be paid the salaries the Government will set?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Just to correct you, hon. Member for Kabwe Central, the statutory instruments (SIs) are No. 46 and No. 47.

Hon. Minister, you may answer.                                      

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, ...

Mr Ngulube: Naibombela K1,500.

Mrs Simukoko: ... I want to clarify that there is a union at Game Stores, which he mentioned. Therefore, the workers there do not fall under the category for whom the minimum wage is set. 

Madam Speaker, as I said earlier, the consultations take a very long time. So, the CSO ...

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1640 hours until 1700 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SEPAEKER in the Chair]

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I had just informed the House that the workers at Game Stores did not fall under the minimum wage category of workers.

Madam, it is true that some people fired or threatened to fire some employees, but the employees were reinstated after we summoned their employers for discussions.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chali (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, how often does the ministry conduct inspections for compliance with the minimum wage? Further, are the inspections, if any, proactive or do they always result from complaints submitted by employees?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, I am grateful that the Government has bought more vehicles for labour inspectors. Initially, we had challenges providing transport to the inspectors.

Madam, the ministry receives different categories of complaints. Some are submitted by the complainants in person, some are mailed while others are received as contributions to radio discussions or as news items. However, the inspectorate does, sometimes, make surprise visits. I think you have also seen me conduct snap inspections. Sometimes, the snap inspections are a result of tip-offs from the aggrieved parties.

Madam, so far, there is a high level of compliance by employers, including the shops.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Madam Speaker, what plans does the hon. Minister have to harmonise the salary of Zambian citizens with those of foreigners? I ask this question because at some of the mines in Lufwanyama, Zambian citizens are being paid, for example, K2,000 while foreigners get K22,000.

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, workers have different contracts. There are contracts that are signed by the employees and those that improve their conditions of service through collective bargaining. The ones that are relevant to this discussion are those who do not belong to unions, and they, too, are in different categories.

Madam, if a Zambian doing the same job as an expatriate discovered that his or her salary was much lower than the expatriate’s, we expect the Zambian to use his or her bargaining power, rights or education to resolve the issue with relevant managers. Such people should only think of the minimum wage if they find that their conditions fall below those stipulated as the minimum. Further, there are salary entry points, depending on the job one is doing. So, if the entry point is stated, but one finds oneself paid less than one’s foreign colleague, surely, one can even sue for discrimination on the basis of either association, seniority or whatever applicable grounds. Such cases have been won many times.

Madam, the challenge we currently have is a lack of adequate employment opportunities. So, people are exploited, but they do not report to the relevant authorities for fear of losing their jobs. However, one expects those in managerial positions to fight for equal pay for equal work with their expatriate colleagues.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam Speaker, in her response to the question asked by the hon. Member for Luena, Mr Kundoti, on the lessons learnt in the implementation of statutory instruments (SIs) No. 46 and 47, the hon. Minister mentioned one lesson, namely the ignorance of the people involved. While I agree with her that ignorance plays a part, does she agree with me that the high unemployment levels in this country and the Government’s failure to generation job opportunities are a recipe enough for employers to abuse employees? The employers know that they can silence their employees from voicing their grievances on the non-compliance of their employers with the SIs by threatening them with dismissals, since the employers can fire their workers and have many people queuing up to be recruited the next day because people would rather have half a loaf of bread than no loaf at all.

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, those are some of the challenges that we face. Some people are definitely scared to speak out on issues that affect them. However, when we learn, for example, that some people have been fired for fighting for their rights, definitely such people are reinstated when they report to the ministry. In some circumstances, trade unions have moved in to protect the works.

Madam, having had some experience as a worker, I want to say that sometimes we exaggerate the wrath of the employers. We must know that employers are interested in minimising costs and maximising profits. So, they will always endeavour to underpay the workers as a way of minimising costs. However, workers who know their rights fight such employers and if they are fired for that, and the ministry is informed, it ensures that they are reinstated. Unfortunately, sometimes, people are just scared. Even when the unemployment levels were not as high as they are today, some people were still scared because they are born cowards. In such circumstances, there is nothing we can do.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Please, withdraw your reference to Zambian workers as cowards.

Mrs Simukoko: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for the guidance.

Madam, some people are either timid or lack knowledge. So, even when we assure the workers who are exploited of protection if they report to the ministry or unions, they still do not report. In that regard, it is difficult for us to continue fighting for them because they are not willing to fight with us.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, it is comforting to hear that vehicles have been bought for inspectors. That said, will one of them be given to the officer in Mpika, who covers three districts where complaints are registered almost daily in institutions like Zampalm?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, the vehicles that have been bought will definitely be distributed to different parts of the country. However, hon. Members can also report cases of ill-treatment of workers in their constituencies, as some have done and we have moved in to resolve the disputes.

Madam, inspectors will now visit work places more frequently not only for inspections, but also to educate workers on their rights and obligations, and assure them that they cannot be fired for complaining about their conditions of service. An employee can only be fired for committing certain offences, and I speak an informed perspective.

Thank you, Madam.

Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Madam Speaker, most companies assist us in many ways through what we call corporate social responsibility. For that reason, when they breach labour laws, we tend to be too timid to correct them. What is the ministry doing about that? Further, …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You are only allowed to ask one question.

Mr Kabanda: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for your guidance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, did you get the question about corporate social responsibility?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, not so clearly. I do not know what the question is.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Serenje, please, repeat your question?

Mr Kabanda: Madam Speaker, the multinational corporations that operate in this country are in the forefront of those who breach labour laws. Unfortunately, they are also the companies we approach when we need financial assistances, making it very difficult for us to take them on when they breach the law. So, how do we deal with deal with the conflict of interest?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Who is the “we” to whom you are referring?

Mr Kabanda: Madam Speaker, I am referring to the Government. For instance, we may ask a co-operating partner to mend a bad road in Serenje. So, when that partner fires an employee indiscriminately, how do we balance the interests?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the question clear now, hon. Minister?

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, I think he is referring to situations in which companies that make donations break the law and we are timid in correcting them. The perception is that the big companies are the ones that break the law. In fact, most of them do not because they are worried that they will be embarrassed or their corporate image tarnished. Our major problem is with the smaller entities. Maybe, we should understand that they are struggling to make ends meet.

Madam, the conflict of interest to which the hon. Member has referred does not exist because there are trade unions at most big companies and the unions are not the beneficiaries of the corporate social responsibility about which we are talking. So, the unions still represent their members forcefully and faithfully. Therefore, the hon. Member should not worry about that because the people who negotiate and those who receive the gifts are different.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister comment on a situation in which an employer who fails to pay employees a minimum wage agrees with the workers to pay them a lower amount and goes with them to a Labour Office to sign an agreement in which the workers agree to be paid an amount below the minimum wage, and labour officers attest to the agreement.  

Mrs Simukoko: Madam Speaker, it is impossible for the ministry to attest to a contract that is illegal. Normally, the Minister goes through the contracts that people sign. However, if there is any evidence of such a situation, I will be very happy to receive it.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

TARRING OF KATUNDA TURN-OFF/LUKULU/WATOPA/MUMBEJI TURN-OFF AND MANYINGA/MWINILUNGA ROADS

57. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

(a) whether the Government had plans to tar the following roads:

(i) Katunda Turn-off/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbeji Turn-off; and

(ii) Manyinga-Mwinilunga;

(b) if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

(c) if there were no such plans, why.

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Chitotela): Madam Speaker, the Government has plans to upgrade to bituminous standards both the Katunda Turn-off/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbeji Turn-off and Manyinga/Mwinilunga Rroads under the Link Zambia 8,000 Kilometre Road Project (Link Zambia 8,000). The roads have been included in the 2018 Road Sector Annual Work Plan (RSAWP) and the projects will be implemented using the contractor facilitated initiative (CFI).

Madam Speaker, the Road Development Agency (RDA) has completed the engagement of the contractors, but implementation awaits the finalisation of the financing agreement by the Ministry of Finance.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that very pleasing answer, although we have been getting it since 2011 and he is now saying the roads will be worked on in 2018. That will be seven years from the time we were first promised. That said, given the extent of dilapidation of the Katunda Turn-off/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbeji Turn-off Road and the fact that the rainy season is just around the corner, what interim measures will the Government take to make it, at least, passable?

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, we will assess the status of the road and decide whether it requires emergency works. However, I must mention that we involve the provinces in the identification of roads that need emergency works and, whenever we receive funding from the Ministry of Finance, we fund all the ten provinces under Force Account so that the provincial administrations are able to fund the necessary projects. That is done through our provincial engineering officers under the RDA. The idea is to quickly attend to areas that require emergency works, but may not be attended to by the Zambia National Service (ZNS). As you may be aware, my ministry signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with the Ministry of Defence for the ZNS to begin working on some feeder roads in Zambia. However, some roads may not have been captured by the ZNS. In that regard, I request the relevant hon. Members of Parliament for the Western and North-Western provinces to engage the provincial administration so that the roads in question can quickly be considered for on-the-spot improvements.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed this House that the roads in question will be worked on next year as a contract-initiated project (CIP). Could the hon. Minister clarify to the beneficiaries in the North-Western Province whether the contractor will source the funding, execute the requisite works and, then, recoup the expenses through tolling. If that is the case, then, the project will not take off because no contractor will be will be willing to spend a lot of money on the road and expect to recoup it.

Mr Nkombo: It was only Mutelo.

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, there are very distinct differences among CFI; engineering, procurement, and construction (EPC); and public-private partnership (PPP) projects.

Madam, in next year’s Budget, the Government will provide K3.6 billion as funding for the road sector while CFIs are projected to contribute K5 billion has been projected under the CFI.

Madam, unlike other initiatives or models in which contractors working on economic road projects, such as the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway, which is the most economic road, source the funding, develop the roads and, then, they are paid, CFIs are projects in which is the contractor enters into an agreement with the Government to facilitate funding for the project for which he has been awarded a contract and the Government pays the contractor for the executed works over an agreed period, as was the case with the Mongu/Kalabo Road. That is why the agreement is signed by the Ministry of Finance. So, to put some people’s fears to rest, this will not be another debt because the project has been provided for in next year’s Budget under the Road Sector Annual Work Plan (RSAWP), assuming the Budget will be approved.

Madam Speaker, bearing in mind that the contracts for the construction of the roads were signed in 2016 and have been on our books, the Government simply decided to include them in next year’s RSAWP. So, once the Budget is approved, the Ministry of Finance will enter into a loan agreement with the contractor who will facilitate the implementation of the projects.

Madam Speaker, for avoidance of doubt, let me say that the total amount for the upgrading to bituminous standard of the Katunda Turn-off/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbeji Turn-off Road has been planned for under Phase II of Link 8,000. The project has been split into three lots as follows:

Lots                                              Stretch                                              Amount (K’million)

 1                                  About 102 km of the D172                                                 607         

  

                                Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbeji Road

 2                           About 270 km of the Katunda M19 Junction/                           601

                              Lukulu/Watopa Road

 

 3                         About 270 km of the Katunda M9 Junction/                              900

                           Lukulu/Watopa M8 D792 Road in the

                           Western Province

Madam Speaker, the Government has also earmarked the Manyinga/Mwinilunga Road for upgrading and has procured by China CAMC for the works at a cost of US$273,179,08. That is how committed this Government is to development the country and making sure that nobody is left behind because we know that all areas in Zambia have a lot of potential for development. I have driven on the road from Manyinga to Mwinilunga and seen the huge potential for timber production and agriculture. So, there is need for us to develop the area.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, we will wait upon the Government to fulfil those sweet words and demonstrate …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: … the inclusiveness about which the hon. Minister is talking. 

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, there is a pontoon on the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbeji Road. Just a few minutes ago, I received word from Watopa that a canter truck has fallen into the Kabompo River, blocking the passage of the pontoon and leaving people stuck on either side. Will the scope of the project include the construction of a bridge across the Kabompo River at Watopa? 

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, yes, the bridge is included. No wonder, the stretch on which the bridge will be constructed, which is only about 79.234 km, has been allocated approximately K900 million.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I am very concerned because the route from Katunda through to Sitaka in the dark forest across the Kabompo River, where an accident has just happened, is on the way to my village.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: How many times has the hon. Minister given assurances to Hon. Mutelo here (turned to face Hon. Mutelo)?

Mr Mutelo: Yes!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, you are supposed to face the Chair.

Mr Nkombo: Sorry, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, face me.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, how many times will the hon. Minister assure us, who come from that region, …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … about the implementation of those projects?

Madam, in 2010, during the Mangango By-Election, a lot of equipment was sent to that part of the country to dupe voters into voting for the Patriotic Front (PF). However, no sooner had the election ended than the equipment vanished. So, for how long will we listen to the hon. Minister and agree with him when he uses jargon words on contracts, unsecured money and unknown contractors?

Madam, when will the project be implemented so that we, who come from that region, can increase our matrimonial ratings?

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Currently, we are not able to go to the village.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, I will begin with the second part of the question.

Madam, for us who come from that region to increase our matrimonial ratings, we must be good husbands because even if we visit, we may not increase our matrimonial ratings if we are not good husbands.

Ms Mulenga: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitotela: I also come from there.

Madam Speaker, to ensure that my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central, does not go all the way to Solwezi, then, come to Zambezi, we will work on the road.

Madam, I understand that governance is a continuous process. However, the Patriotic Front (PF) was elected into Government in 2011. So, I cannot answer for what happened in 2010 because I am not privy to them. However, in 2015, the contract was signed. For the information of the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, who wanted to know who the contractors are, for Lots 1 and 2, the contractor is Messrs Anhui Shu‵ian Construction Group Limited while for Lot 3, the contract was awarded to Messrs China Railway Seventh Group (Zambia) Limited. The Manyinga/Mwinilunga Road has been awarded to Messrs China CAMC Engineering, the company that constructed the Mbala/Nakonde Road. Messrs Anhui Shu’ian Construction Group Limited is also working on the Kalalantekwe/Mukungule Road, which goes to Muchinga Province. So, these are reputable and competent companies that will execute the works effectively. Therefore, I assure Hon. Nkombo and the people of North-Western Province that we have included the roads in next year’s RSAWP. So, immediately after the Budget is approved, and the contracts are signed, we will escalate our engagement with the Ministry of Finance so that it can sign the loan agreement since there are provisions already in the 2018 Budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwene (Mangango): Madam Speaker, a question similar to this one was asked by Hon. Mutelo and the hon. Minister assured us that the road was provided for in the 2017 Budget, adding that three contractors had been engaged to work on it. He also stated that his Government was a listening one. My question is: What is the ideal listening period for his Government to work on the road?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the only ideal period for the Government to implement projects once its citizens have spoken is when all the legal processes have been completed. If we take short-cuts on any provision of the law, the same people urging us to do so will ask why we did not follow procedure. So, when people speak, we listen, but we have to follow procedure. 

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, what I get here is that it is only when I approve the 2018 Budget will the road be worked on. However, I did that last year, ...

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: … yet the road was not worked on. Does the hon. Minister thing he can arm-twist me by saying that the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbeji Road can only be worked on after I approve the 2018 Budget? Is that the right way of doing things since 1964?

Mr Nkombo: Slap him!

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mitete!

Please, speak though the Chair.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, I have approved many Budgets in this House, yet the hon. Minister says the road will only be constructed when I approve the 2018 Budget. How many more Budgets should I approve before the hon. Minister can be convinced to include the road in the 2018 Budget in order for it to be worked on? Is that the right way of doing things since 1964?

Madam Speaker, through you, I seek clarification from my neighbour here (Pointing at the hon. Minister).

Laughter

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, if my memory serves me right, my neighbour, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mitete, and I were first elected to Parliament in 2011. Therefore, although I know that governance is a continuous process, I have no information on what happened in 1964.

Madam, again, if I can remember well, I have had many engagements on the same road project with the hon. Member for Mitete and Hon. Dr Kalila in my office. Unfortunately, the project was not included in 2017 RSAWP, and this information has been made available to the two hon. Members of Parliament who have been pushing for this project to be implemented. They have also had engagements with the hon. Minister of Finance on many occasions. The project was supposed to be implemented under a CFI. 

Madam, the hon. Member for Mangango has also joined the bandwagon of those championing the implementation of the project by this listening Government. When the citizens spoke, the Government listened and included the project in this year’s RSAWP so that it can be implemented next year. I, therefore, assure the hon. Member for Mitete, the people of Lukulu East and the people of North Western Province in general that this Government does not segregate in implementing programmes. We will spend slightly above K5 billion on this project because we value and respect where our people live and want to take development to every part of Zambia. It is my wish that, one day, the hon. Member for Mitete will stand up to say, “Yes, job well done, PF”.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitotela: Madam, when people do something good, it is important to show appreciation because it encourages them to do more. Those who criticise even when people are doing good things will not discourage the Government because we understand that it is also the role of our friends to criticise us, who have the responsibility to deliver development to the Zambian people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutelo rose.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mitete!

You have already asked a question. Please, resume your seat.

Laughter

_________

MOTIONS

BUDGET 2018

(Debate resumed)

Mr Kintu (Solwezi East): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate.

Madam, on page 20, paragraph 99, of the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister of Finance gives us a progress report on water supply and sanitation programmes that have been implemented this year. According to the report, 1,340 boreholes were sunk and ten small water schemes constructed in rural areas.

Madam Speaker, in Mushindano District to the East of Solwezi, we have not seen the water and sanitation programmes that have been implemented in other districts. This simply means that the 1,340 boreholes that have been sunk and the 600 that have been rehabilitated at a total cost of K391 million were all in different constituencies. In this regard, I appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance to furnish us with the details of the constituencies that benefited from the water supply and sanitation programmes to enable us know that the money was actually spent and help us to determine the constituencies that did not benefit so that subsequent programmes may be directed to those constituencies.

Madam, on the ten small water schemes constructed in the rural areas, my interest is to point out that they were community-driven initiatives in which members of the community come up with a project to supply safe water in their locality. I know that they are comparable to the utility companies that operate in urban areas. That is a very good initiative and I urge the people of Solwezi East to learn from other communities how they operate and sustain it, especially in terms of operations and maintenance. This is one initiative we could replicate in our constituencies. In this regard, I appeal to the hon. Minister to provide us with information on the areas in which there are such schemes.

Madam, on page 19, paragraph 94, of the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister has says:

“Mr Speaker, in order to enhance health service delivery, Government will in 2018, focus on prevention, control and treatment of communicable and non-communicable diseases.”

Madam Speaker, it is a well-known fact that prevention is better and, probably, cheaper than cure. However, in the 2018 Budget, we noticed that more resources have been allocated to activities pertaining to treatment while the prevention aspect has retained the same level of funding.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Solwezi East!

Are you reading from a script?

Mr Kintu: No, I am not reading anywhere.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Alright. Please, continue.

Mr Kintu: Madam Speaker, a look at the statistics from our health facilities will show that the top ten diseases killer diseases are probably preventable ones because they are either water-borne or sanitation-related. Such diseases are preventable. However, at the rate we are going, it will not be possible to prevent them because the disease prevention programmes are not adequately resourced. So, the diseases will be with us for a long time to come, especially in the rural areas where water supply and sanitation facilities are either sub-standard or non-existent.

Madam Speaker I always ask myself why we have so many challenges in a country endowed with so many natural resources. It appears we are not getting anywhere in disease control and prevention, as one of the important determinants of good health is good water and sanitation for all. However, sanitation is treated as a personal or individual thing in this country. I do not know whether the Government even has a policy on sanitation.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngulube: Question!

Mr Kintu: Madam Speaker, it is pointless to provide water without good sanitation services because the diseases that are associated with water are also associated with sanitation. So, water and sanitation go hand in hand. When we provide safe water, let us provide sanitation services as well.

Madam Speaker, why are we not moving in forward in terms of providing universal access to good health care? I think we all know that there is a relationship among corruption, disease, poverty and ignorance.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Kintu: Madam Speaker, countries that have experienced civil strife have managed to make progress while we, who have not gone through that, have stagnated. For example, many Zambians now go for treatment in the neighbouring Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).

Madam Speaker, it is because of corruption that our country finds itself in the situation it is in.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kintu: Madam, corruption impedes any government from taking care of its communities because a few individuals find a way of reaping where they have not sown. So, when a government is corrupt, diseases that can be controlled will flourish in the country and people will be in poverty because they will be unable to work due to sicknesses. Further, when they are unable to go for work, they cannot send their children to school, leading to a country of illiterates. That is a vicious cycle in which this country is. I cannot go very far in illustrating to you what I mean. Suffice it for me to say that the purchase of the water bowsers so-called fire engines …

Mr Ngulube: Water bowsers are fire engines?

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes, they are water bowsers!

Laughter

Mr Kintu: ... is an example of what I mean. We hear that this country has no resources, yet we see the Government spend public funds on things that are not a priority. In my district, we did not ask for those fire trucks, yet the Government bought them instead of investing the money in water and sanitation. Our people do not understand why that was done.

Madam, those are the issues that affect our people today. So, unless we get rid of corruption and put money where it is supposed to be, this country will not move forward.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo (Bweengwa): Madam Speaker, …

Mr Ngulube: Ema potbelly aya!

Laughter

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, from the outset, I thank the hon. Minister of Finance for delivering the 2018 Budget Address to this august House. However, I am a bearer of a message from the people of Bweengwa, who sent me here to say that the speech had no truth in it.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Michelo: Madam, the theme of the address is “Accelerating Fiscal Fitness for Sustained Inclusive Growth without Leaving Anyone Behind”. I am particularly interested in the phrase “without leaving anyone behind”. The reality is that development efforts in this country are seen to be directed to only one region and we, the people of Bweengwa, are truly very concerned about that. For example, the construction of the Monze/Niko Road has been abandoned. However, if you compare the 2017 and 2018 Budget Addresses, you will see that they contain the same pronouncements. So, what happened this year will happen next year. That is, statements have been made, but not much corresponding action will be taken. A number of developmental projects were mentioned in the 2017 Budget Speech, such as the sinking of boreholes and construction of dams. What has happened? The money was allocated, but the dams were not constructed, and I wonder where the money went. In fact, the 2017 Budget did not perform above 50 per cent.

Mr Mwiinga: It was only 20 per cent.

Mr Michelo: Someone is telling me that it could have performed below 20 per cent. A lot of money was allocated. For example, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was allocated but, to date, it has not been disbursed. Where did that money go? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: Let me request the hon. Minister of Finance, if he is listening wherever he is ‒ I cannot see him here ‒ to increase CDF from K1.4 million to K10 million ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: ... so that we can develop our constituencies.

Madam Speaker, last year, the President said that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government would create 1 million jobs in five years. Then, the hon. Minister of Finance informed this hon. House that the Government would create 500,000 jobs. However, to date, we have not seen any job created. I do not even know who told the truth between the President and the hon. Minister of Finance ...

Mr Ngulube: Question!

Mr Michelo: … because the two contradicted each other. I think, for us to move forward, the different structures of this PF Government should not work in isolation, but in a co-ordinated manner. Currently, there is no proper co-ordination.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, ...

Mr Ngulube: I thank you!

Mr Michelo: ... look at how this Government has mistreated our farmers, especially the small-scale farmers of Bweengwa Constituency, in terms of the price of maize, which the Government has reduced from K85 per 50 kg bag, last year, to K60 this year. Where are we going, as a country? Why are we killing our farmers? The Government is telling us that it will not leave anyone behind, but it has left all the farmers behind. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, the price of fertiliser has gone up. There is no match between the production cost of maize and the price at which the PF Government is buying the maize. That price is not good. In the production of maize, one has to prepare the land, plant, weed, harvest, package and do many other things, yet this PF Government does not consider all those things in setting the price of maize. To tell you the truth, I think farmers are not making any profit.

Mr Ngulube: Question!

Mr Michelo: Madam, the Government wants to roll out the electronic voucher (e-Voucher) system to the entire country failed when it failed to implement the programme in thirty-nine districts last year.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

 Mr Michelo: How will it manage the programme across the country? I foresee total disaster.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: Further, the Government committed itself to building many dams in the 2017 Budget. Where are the dams? They are nowhere to be seen. In my constituency, not a single dam has been built. In fact, from the time I was born, I have not seen a caterpillar, track loader or bulldozer in my area working on a dam. The Government is also allowing companies to import powdered milk through our porous borders and make reconstituted milk instead of protecting our dairy industry, which is still in infancy, so that it can improve. Where are we going as a country?

Madam Speaker, look at the electricity tariffs. Just today, the hon. Minister of Energy mentioned that the cost of electricity will go up again next year.

Mr Ngulube: Question!

Mr Michelo: Just recently, the cost of electricity went up by 75 per cent.

Mr Ngulube: Question!

Mr Michelo: Can you stop questioning!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Masholi.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Michelo: Just last month, the cost of electricity went up by 75 per cent. Why are we killing Zambians? I think we should do something, as Zambians.

Madam Speaker, the fuel price has also gone up and, I think, it is the highest price.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: I think there is an invisible hand, which must be exposed, that is making all the prices to go up.

Madam Speaker, when this PF Government came into power, US$1 was at K4. This time, it is at K9.6, yet the Government boasts of being a working one.

Madam Speaker, still on agriculture, the Ministry of Agriculture is very important in this country and requires a sober-minded person to head it, not someone who spends almost four hours applying fifteen layers of beautification first thing in the morning.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Bweengwa!

You know the rules of the House, and it is extremely unfair for you to drag the hon. Minister of Agriculture into your debate in that manner. Please, refrain from that as you continue with your debate.

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, thank you for the guidance.

Madam Speaker, let me emphasise that the CDF has to be increased. Further, the constituencies in Lusaka urban are already developed, yet they get the same amount of CDF as the rural ones. Why can the Government not reduce the amount given to urban constituencies and increase that given to rural constituencies like Mafinga, Chifunabuli and Bweengwa? Even the money allocated last year in the Budget was not disbursed. Where did it go? Very few constituencies received it.

Madam Speaker, infrastructure development in Zambia is not moving well.

Dr Malama: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Michelo:  What is that point of order?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Michelo: Madam, the telecommunication towers that we were promised last year, ...

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Bweengwa!

Please, resume your seat.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, we have less than five days left to debate this Motion. Within those days, the hon. Ministers have to respond to the issues that have been raised or will be raised by you on the different sectors. I will, therefore, be very reluctant to allow points of order during this segment of the business of the day, unless the point of order is absolutely necessary. In that regard, I wonder whether the hon. Member for Kanchibiya is under pressure to raise a point of order.

Interruptions

Hon. Dr Malama rose.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Resume your seat, hon. Member for Kanchibiya.

You can continue with your debate, hon. Member for Bweengwa.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, thank you very much ...

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Bweengwa!

The hon. Member for Kanchibiya can now raise his point of order,.

Dr Malama: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order.

Madam, in this country, we are trying very much to protect women from being blocked by glass ceilings, such as was insinuated in the statement made by the hon. Member for Bweengwa.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Malama: So, I need a serious ruling ...

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1810 hours until 1830 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Dr Malama: Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngulube: Ema mistake aya!

Dr Malama: I am sorry, Madam Speaker.

Madam, when business was suspended, I was raising a point of order and referred to glass ceilings.

Madam, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and the people of Zambia are fighting negative attitudes towards women. However, instead of just debating policies, the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa made a statement that concretises the glass ceiling. Was he in order to do that?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Kanchibiya is raising a point of order on a matter on which the Chair has already ruled.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The Chair cautioned the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa to refrain from bringing the hon. Minister of Agriculture, who is not even in the House, into his debate. However, although the hon. Member for Kanchibiya has raising a point of order on a matter that has already been resolved, I agree with him that the hon. Member for Bweengwa was out of order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is why he was cautioned by the Chair.

Hon. Member for Bweengwa, you may continue with your debate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Ngulube: Start with an apology.

Mr Michelo: Thank you Madam Speaker, for your counsel.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, moving on to road infrastructure, recently, there was a pronouncement on the construction of the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway and hotels on the same route. However, the people of Zambia have rejected the idea because it smells corruption.

Mr Ngulube: Question!

Mr Michelo: Madam, I also wish to comment on the procurement of fire tenders at a cost of K42 million, which also smells corruption.

Madam, this Government must cancel the concession Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) operations to Lamise and an Australian company. The Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) and Chimbokaila Prison should also be given back to Zambians.

Madam, currently, there is been a hybrid corruption and all the eight cylinders of corruption are firing at full throttle.

Madam, in Tonga, corruption is called banchelelebuno.

Hon. Government Members: Meaning?

Mr Michelo: Meaning banzaapa.

Hon. Government Member: Meaning?

Mr Michelo: Ba zyundukuyu …

Mr Ngulube: Meaning?

Mr Michelo: Meaning that people should not be interested in filling their stomachs first.

Laughter

Mr Michelo: … or people who are only interested in filling their stomachs when they are supposed to work for the people of Zambia.

Interruptions

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, the call for mechanisation of the agriculture sector is a very good idea. However, we also need to protect Zambian jobs. Yes, we are in a digital world, but what are we doing to protect Zambians’ jobs?

Mr Ngulube: Digital?

Mr Michelo: Yes, digital.

Madam Speaker, foreigners are presently buying huge tracts of land. Under Patriotic Front (PF) rule, I see Zambia being recolonised very soon because most of the money is in the hands of foreigners. Even in the 2018 Budget we are discussing, about 50 per cent of the money will go into foreign hands because all the contracts will be given to the Chinese instead of local contractors. So, the money will go to China instead of benefiting the people of Zambia.

Madam Speaker, in some of our neighbouring countries, such as South Africa, there are very beautiful interlocking roads. Why can we not take a leaf from there and work on the Mazabuka/Monze Road? If you and the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development drove on that road, you would find dip tanks instead of potholes. That is how bad the road is.

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: So, I request this Government to seriously work on the road, which is used by all Zambians. Those who come from Kaputa in the Northern Province, Kaputa, where I have a friend, and Chifunabuli all use the road. So, it must be given serious attention.

Madam, the Monze/Niko Road, which has been abandoned by the contractor, must also be completed.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, …

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: … the PF Government is now operating at the point of diminishing returns.

Mr Ngulube: Question!

Mr Michelo: So, I urge it to stop corruption and mend its relationship with Zambians. It should also increase the price of a 50 kg bag of maize to K90 and raise the CDF to K10 million.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: It must also work on the Mazabuka/Kafue and Monze/Niko roads.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: The PF must also build dams and dip tanks for our livestock, and rehabilitate feeder roads in rural constituencies, pay civil servants decent salaries, reduce electricity tariffs and give bursaries to our students. Thereafter, it should give back to the people of Zambia the institutions it has privatised, such as the NRDC, RTSA and Chimbokaila We, Zambians, want them back.

Madam, this Government must also remove the K2 levy on cement. Why is it adding more taxes on already overtaxing Zambians? 

Laughter

Mr Michelo: Madam, the PF must also stop police brutality and the corruption in institutions like the police. The energy wasted on brutalising Zambians must be used to fight corruption.

Mr Mwamba: Question!

Mr Michelo: Madam Speaker, Zambians should also stop making decisions while drunk. When somebody takes beer, the small nerves in the brain develop sores, and that is what causes people to start staggering. Alcohol goes straight to the brain and damages it. Therefore, I appeal to my PF colleagues and all of us to stop making decisions when drunk.

Mr Mwamba: Question!

Mr Michelo: We should make decisions when sober.

Madam Speaker, I request the PF Government to make us one Zambia, one nation once more. It should stop retiring people from other tribes in national interest because all the tribes have intermarried. Why are we fighting every day?

Ms Kapata: Ask HH.

Hon. Opposition Members: Jean the Baptist.

Mr Michelo: Jean the Baptist.

Laughter

Mr Michelo: Why are we fighting HH every day?

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Michelo: We should not fight every day because we are one. There are Tongas who are married to Bembas and vice-versa and Lozis who are married to people from other tribes. Why, then, are we fighting?

Mr Ngulube: Ka votedwe!

Mr Michelo: We are one people and we should strive to drive this country forward.

Madam Speaker, some people have not been to Europe, but I stayed in Holland for a long time.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Michelo: It only takes a few hours to drive from Holland to Paris, France, via Brussel in Belgium, but I only saw toll gates on that route when I reached near Paris. There are no toll gates in Holland.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Let us listen to the hon. Member for Bweengwa.

Mr Michelo: There are no toll gates in Belgium or France.

Mr Ngulube interjected

Mr Michelo: I stayed in Deventer at Larenstein University.

Madam Speaker, my point is that we should decongest Lusaka, as it is heavily congested.

Madam Speaker, once more, can we become one people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, let me give some guidance.

It appears some of you have forgotten the Motion we are debating

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngulube: Ema guidance.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: We are debating the Motion moved by the hon. Minister of Finance on the 2018 Budget.

Mr Mwale: Mwaona manje?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: That is, therefore, what you should debate.

Hon. Government Members: Belgium!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Further, you do not necessarily have to exhaust the twenty minutes ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngulube: Summary!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: ... allocated to you because, in trying to do so, you start bringing in issues that are unrelated to the Motion.

Again, let us focus on the Motion moved by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Budget Speech presented to this House on 29^th September, 2017, by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mwamba: Madam, I listened attentively when the hon. Minister of Finance was giving his speech and nodded my head to each line he read because they all had points that Zambians needed to hear.

Mr Mwamba: After the speech ...

Mr Ngulube: Ema headmaster aya!

Mr Mwale: Former DEBS!

Mr Mwamba: ... I went outside to listen to the discussions that members of the press were having with diplomats and, in the two or three interviews to which I listened, the diplomats were saying that this is a very good speech, that the economy could recover if the pronouncements in the speech were implemented and that the speech was a well-thought-out one. I listened, but did not make a comment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Madam, when I got to my room, I switched on the television in order to watch the news, beginning with Muvi Television ...

Mr Ngulube: Eh ma personal debate!

Mr Mwamba: ... about which there is a certain perception. However, it was full of praises for the speech.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: It said that the speech would benefit the country if implemented the way it has been planned.

Madam Speaker, later, I tuned in to Television Zambia, ...

Mr Ngulube: ZNBC?

Mr Mwamba: ... where none of the various people who were being interviewed rubbished the speech.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwamba: It was then that I realised that this speech is really good.

Madam Speaker, when I received the speech, I went through it and read between the lines. Then, I realised that President Lungu was a teacher who had given homework ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mwamba: ... and that the hon. Minister of Finance, Hon. Felix Mutati, had done the homework. Evidently, this document was prepared in the same way that teachers prepare documents.

Hon. Government Members: Ema DEBS!

Mr Mwamba: A teacher does not just wake up and compile work anyhow. Rather, when schools close, a teacher sits starts preparing his work, starting with a Scheme of Work, which is the work to be done for the whole term.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, resume your seat, Hon. Nkombo.

Mr Nkombo resumed his seat.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: After preparing a Scheme of Work, the teacher moves to the Weekly Forecasts. Thereafter, when the schools open, the teacher prepares Lesson Plans based on the Scheme of Work and the Weekly Forecasts. That is the way this speech was crafted.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Madam Speaker, we have the Vision 2030, which I consider the Scheme of Work for the whole term.

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: If you go through the speech, you will find the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP). That is the way President Lungu works. Instead of working haphazardly, he connects things.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Madam Speaker, the speech we are analysing is a Lesson Plan that links with the ideas in the 7NDP and Vision 2030.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Madam, this is a well-planned and well-thought-out speech and that is why I support it. I want to support the President’s ideas.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Madam Speaker, let me get back to where I started.

Interruptions

Mr Mwamba: Madam, after analysing the debates in the media, I came to this House and to listen to the debates here and discovered that the majority of hon. Members are praising the speech. They are saying that it has well-thought-out programmes that, if well-implemented, can take Zambia forward.

Madam, we need to agree on one thing. Where I come from, beba ati, “Tapakabe uka ngeba nangu fino mfwele bwino ati, ‘Naufwala bwino’”. Instead, they will always say, “Ah, Ba Mwamba, balya aba …” even when I am well dressed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Nobody wants to praise President Lungu for the well-thought-out ideas that are reflected in this document.  The majority are praising him except for …

Mr Nkombo rose.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, please, resume your seat.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, the official language in this House is English, as you know.

Mr Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I can interpret.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, go ahead and interpret.

Mr Mwamba: Madam Speaker, what I am saying is that people who are jealous will never praise the good works of others …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: … because they have that bad element in them. So, even when they see well-dressed people or a beautiful lady, they will never acknowledge the fact.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Madam Speaker, people should learn to give praise where it is due. The pillars of this document are drawn from the 7NDP and Vision 2030. For example, the first pillar is on the development of farming blocks.

Laughter

Mr Mwamba: The pillar says that once we develop the farming blocks, we will bring up encourage the development of farming facilities. Similarly, this document says that once the farming blocks are established, we will have many new income-generating activities, such as manufacturing and related industries in that sector. This means that many people will be employed in 2018. After that, we will appreciate value addition. In that regard, I wonder why some people are trying to rubbish this document.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

“Rubbish” is unparliamentary.

Mr Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I do not know how I can put it, but what I am saying is that I wonder why some people are condemning this document when it contains such brilliant that can benefit all of us if implemented.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Our children will get employed in this country. So, all we need to do is ask our good Government to implement the programmes the way they are put in this document. People should not condemn this Government even before it starts implementing these programmes. Mulefyaya uku tuka umwanakashi talafula.   

Laughter

Mr Mwamba: That is not the idea.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lubansenshi!

You are forgetting to interpret this language that you are very keen on using. What have you just said?

Mr Mwamba: Madam Speaker, I just said that people should not try to cross the bridge before it is built.

Laughter

Mr Mwamba: People should wait for the right time to condemn.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: Madam, we should put our heads together and support the implementation of the proposed Budget for the benefit of all Zambians.  

Madam Speaker, through this Budget speech, the Government of His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu has realised that there are gaps in development.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear! In conclusion ...

Mr Mwamba: I will conclude, do not worry.

Hon. PF Members: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Mwamba: Madam, the third pillar of this document is about reducing development inequalities. In that regard, I think we should give credit where it is due.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwamba: Many Governments have ruled Zambia, but only paid lip service to the policies we now see this Government want to actualise.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwamba: The Government has admitted that development inequalities have not been addressed and that development efforts and wealth distribution have been concentrated in towns. That is why the third pillar says that we need to take the resources that have been concentrated in towns to the rural areas, too.

Hon. PF Members: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Mwamba: The document agrees that we have not developed infrastructure like hospitals, rural health centres and schools in rural areas. I do not see how that can be wrong. This is a teacher, Lungu, implementing.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, you will refer to the Head of State as His Excellency the President.

Mr Mwamba: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

 Madam, what I am saying is that His Excellency is working like a teacher by putting down things on the drawing board and translating them into reality. So, the monies that will be released from 1^st January, 2018, onwards, must be directed towards the sealing of loopholes that we have identified and addressing the challenges in the rural areas. All of us want our rural health posts to be completed. I equally have schools whose roofs were blown off, but I have been shown the money allocated to rural areas.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwamba: So, we can give credit to a document like this one.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to air my views and those of the people of Mkaika Constituency on this Motion.

Hon. Mwene: Osa tyola ako.

Mr Mutelo:  MMD.

Laughter

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, I thank and commend the President, Mr Edgar Lungu, ...

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr P. Phiri: … for the exemplary manner in which he is running the affairs of this country.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Phiri: I think that you agree with me that the country has faced many challenges, including electricity deficits, low copper prices and fuel shortages, especially in the 2015 and 2016 two fiscal years.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, those factors contributed to the negative developments in our country.

Madam Speaker, as the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) …

Laughter

Mr Phiri: …we will continue supporting our colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF) …

Interruptions

Mr Phiri: … because we want them to also rule for twenty years like us.

Interruptions

Mr Phiri: Thereafter, we may pass the baton to our other colleagues or, maybe, back to the MMD.

Laughter

Interruptions

Mr Ngulube: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, the 2017 National Budget …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members, especially the Patriotic Front (PF) Members!

I expect you to be pleased and, therefore, listen …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … when the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) hon. Member is debating …

Mr Ngulube: Ema partners aba!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … because he is clearly referring to a partnership.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, allow him to debate.

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, the MMD will continue to give good solutions to our colleagues in the PF because we want them to rule be in power for twenty years like us.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: Then, they will pass the baton back to us.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, Hon. Felix Mutati’s 2018 Budget Speech gives hope to Zambians. It is really a progressive speech. As I have already said, the country had many challenges. However, because of the way his Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, has discharged his duties, the challenges are no more. We are now able to enjoy unlimited power supply because there is no more load shedding.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: There is no more …

Hon. Members: What?

Mr Phiri: … shortage of fuel.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: We used to see queues when we went to the filling stations.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: Now, they are things of the past.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: That is testimony to the existence of a leader who is leading the country.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, I know that a lot has been said already. So, I will focus on the people of Mkaika, which is a rural constituency and its people are eager to know what the 2018 National Budget has for them so that roads can be worked on.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, it is stated in the Budget Speech that the Government has sourced some funds to work on feeder roads. I think we need to give credit to the PF Government, especially where road works are concerned. Most of the roads in our different areas have been worked on.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Phiri: Talk of township roads …

Mr Lubinda: Nizoona.

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, the Great East Road was in such a terrible state that we used to take long hours to reach our destination. However, it now takes less time for us to be in Katete and interact with our people.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: The situation is the same in the Western Province. I am told in Kalomo, is it …

Interruptions

Mr Phiri: The Kalabo Road has been worked on. So, we have to appreciate, and the people of Mkaika will always appreciate the little they have been given. Even the Mongu/Sesheke Road has been worked on.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: The Solwezi Road is being worked on.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: We have to appreciate.

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, development is a gradual process.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: It cannot happen overnight and it is not possible to do everything in a day.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: So, we should learn to appreciate.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, in our language, we say sayamika ni mwana wa mfiti, …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: … meaning that the one who does not appreciate is a child of a witch.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, the people of Katete will always appreciate. Recently, a dam was constructed …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Ngulube: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Phiri: … and the road from Luangwa to Mwami Border was upgraded.

Interruptions

Mr Phiri: Dip tanks were also constructed. However, I would like to remind the Government to provide the people there with the things they do not have. They know that, very soon, a university and a college of agriculture will be constructed for them and that is why they will continue supporting the PF. My people have said that they will remain loyal to the Government of the day as long as it implements some projects in their area.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left!

Mr Phiri: Madam, I know that my colleagues were expectant and they are happy.

Interruptions

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, I will continue lobbying the Government because we have a challenge with roads in the constituency. However, I know that some money has been sourced and the roads will be worked on.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngulube: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Mwale: Na road yaku palace will be worked on.

Mr Phiri: Thank you very much for that reminder.

Laughter

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, let me …

Mr Mwale: Conclude.

Mr Phiri: I am not concluding because I still have some points to make.

Interruptions

Mr Ngulube: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Phiri: You are disturbing me.

Laughter

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, in agriculture, we should not leave any stone unturned or allow any space. So, let us seal all the loopholes and assure the farmers that the price of maize will be better next year. We will continue giving the Government good solutions so that it rules until 2030.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: So, it should ensure that the farmers continue to grow maize for the sake of food security in our country.

Interruptions

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance talked about introducing an infrastructure fund. I urge him to add that fund to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) so that it can be increased …

Mr Ngulube: To K2.5 million!

Mr Phiri: … to about K5 million.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Musukwa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1912 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 12^th October, 2017.

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