Debates- Thursday, 3rd October, 2013

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday 3rd October, 2013

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER
______________

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

PROGRESS MADE ON THE PRESENTATION OF THE ACCESS TO INFORMATION BILL

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Mr Kapeya): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me the opportunity to update this House on the progress made so far on the preparation of the Access to Information Bill. You may also wish to know that His Honour the Vice-President updated this House on the Government’s position regarding the progress made in the preparation of the Access to Information Bill.

Mr Speaker, the Access to Information Bill aims at:

(a) increasing openness and transparency;

(b) guaranteeing freedom of information and the right to access information;

(d) improving the relationship between the Government and the people of Zambia.

These are the values the Patriotic Front (PF) Government stands for.

The Access to Information Bill was initiated by the previous Government in 2002. The draft of this Bill was introduced for First Reading in Parliament, but was later withdrawn for further consultation.

Mr Speaker, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government then kept the Bill at this consultative stage for close to ten years. When the PF came to power, it recognised the need to have access to information held by public institutions and about their Government. Without delay, the PF Government, in the spirit of consultation, constituted a Task Force comprising a number of organisations and imminent individuals to spearhead the redrafting of the Bill and to draw a road map. Members of the Task Force were drawn from different organisations, among them are:

(a) the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ);

(b) the Media Institute of Southern Africa (MISA) Zambia;

(e) the Economics Association of Zambia (EAZ).

Some collaborating partners such as the World Bank also provided financial support to the consultative process.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, in line with the party manifesto, the PF Government recognises the need to provide access to information held by the public institutions …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my extreme right!

The hon. Minister is on the Floor. Can we, please, have order.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Kapeya: … and about their Government because it believes that it is central to the growth of democracy. People need information to reach consensus on national issues, assess accountability, participate in decision making, monitor the application of the rule of law and, most importantly, assess equity and inclusiveness in national issues.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, this Government is also aware that the previous Government had no interest in running an open government.

Hon MMD Members: Aah!

Mr Kapeya: Therefore, it decided to put this very important issue at the bottom of its list of priorities.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: You are right.

Mr Kapeya: The PF Government is convinced, beyond doubt, that a government that operates in secrecy attracts undue criticism …

Mr Muntanga: Yes.

Mr Mbulakulima: Elyo mwaishiba.

Mr Kapeya: … and distances itself from the people whose support it needs to successfully implement its development agenda.

Mr Speaker, it is against this background that the PF Government is making frantic efforts to bring the Access to Information Bill back to Parliament for enactment and to prepare for its implementation. Enactment of the Access to Information Bill is the easier part. It is the implementation that is much more challenging. Without careful planning, we risk having a law that cannot be implemented. This will be more frustrating than waiting a little longer for the foundation to be laid.

Mr Speaker, as you may recall, His Honour the Vice-President told the nation, through this august House, that the Government was committed to enacting the Access to Information Bill. He further informed the House that a Cabinet Memorandum had been issued for hon. Cabinet Ministers to comment on the Draft Bill.

Mr Kabimba entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: Baisa, baisa!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left!

Mr Kapeya: I wish to report that the Cabinet has approved, in principle, the preparation of the Access to Information Bill. The Bill has been discussed by the internal committee comprising the hon. Minister of Justice and his officials and officials from the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting and myself.

As part of the process of preparing the Bill, the Ministry of Justice has advised my ministry to ensure that selected laws that have been preliminarily identified to impact on the Access to Information Bill are also amended so that when the Bill is enacted, it does not conflict with the laws.

Some of the laws that would be in conflict with the Access to Information Bill include the following:

(a) the Constitution of Zambia, Cap 1;

(b) the Zambia Security Intelligence Service Act No. 14 (1998);

(d) the Official Oaths Act, Cap 5;

(e) the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Act, Cap 12

(f) the Protected Places and Areas Act, Cap 125;

(g) the Census and Statistics Act Cap, 127;

(h) the Copyright and Performance Rights Act, Cap 406;

(i) the Electoral Act No. 12, (2006);

(j) the Information and Communication Technologies Act No. 15 (2009);

(k) the National Archives Act, Cap 175;

(l) the Electronic Communications and Transactions Act No. 21 (2009); and

(m) the National Health Research Act No. 2 (2013).

Mr Speaker, the list above is not exhaustive. It was also the basis on which the Ministry of Justice advised the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting to engage a legal expert to review all the above-mentioned laws and identify other laws that will be in conflict with the Access to Information Bill once enacted into law.

A legal expert to review the laws has since been engaged, and has been given one month to undertake this exercise. In addition, the ministry will proceed with the approval process of the Bill which will soon be presented to the Legislative Committee of the Cabinet for consideration. Once the committee has approved the Bill, it shall then be taken back to the Cabinet for approval, publication and introduction to this august House. It is only after the Cabinet’s formal approval of the Bill that it will be ready to be tabled before the House and be subjected to the formal enactment process. There is no shortcut to the process.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kapeya: We have to follow the due process because, in such circumstances, it is the right thing to do and there is no alternative to it.

I want to assure the nation, through this august House, that the Government has nothing to hide and is, therefore, committed to enacting the Bill. We believe the proposed Access to Information Bill is one of the most progressive of its kind, having been developed in close and full collaboration and participation of key stakeholders such as the civil society, academia and legislative experts.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has given us a long statement. However, when he brings the Bill to this House? What is the time frame for embarking on the process and when will the Bill be brought to this House?

Mr Kapeya: I have clearly stated, in my ministerial statement, that after the due process has been completed, …

Hon Opposition Members: When?

Mr Kapeya: … the Bill will definitely be presented to this House.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Bill is going to be subjected to a consultant, meaning it is still very far from enactment. What will happen if the consultant fails to reconcile those differences?

Mr Kapeya: I have clearly stated that we have hired a consultant and we have given him/her a month to complete his/her work.

Mr Muchima: What if he/she fails?

Mr Kapeya: If that be the case, Hon. Muchima can raise his question after a month and we shall give him a definite answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, I …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Mwila: Hammer what? I would like the hon. Minister to confirm to this House that this assurance is the last one.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: This is the seventh assurance he has made.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: You have hammered, mwana!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, we are the people who resuscitated the same Bill after our colleagues had kept it for ten years. Surely, how can we neglect our ‘baby’? I will keep assuring this House and the people of Zambia that with the route that we have taken, we will definitely present the Bill to Parliament eventually.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, this Bill we are discussing was drafted and brought to Parliament and went through the First Reading stage. May I find out from the hon. Minister whether the Governemnt has had time to look at this document, and what wrong it has found in it that has resulted in this delay. Consulting here and there is just a way of buying time.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I have clearly indicated, in my statement, that in 2002, our colleagues brought the Bill to Parliament which only went up to First Reading stage. The Bill never came up for Second Reading, and only our friends can explain why.

Sir, in 2011, when we took over power, we re-visited the Bill. After going through it for two years, we have realised that we need to be very careful so that we present a clean document to you, hon. Members of Parliament. If we had brought the Bill in its original format, it would have ended up conflicting with other laws in the Constitution of Zambia.

Hon. Members, you are aware that the Constitution of Zambia is supreme. It stands above all the other laws. So, whatever law comes into conflict with the Constitution falls off. This is why we are so smart in wanting …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kapeya: … to come up with a document that is as clean as we are.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for allowing me to ask a point of clarification on the statement by the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting.

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I apologise to the hon. Member on the Floor for disrupting his line of thought.

Sir, governments are about continuation. Is the hon. Minister in order to continue telling us about what happened in 2002 and to talk about our colleagues who were in power then, without being specific? The PF Government has been in power for two years. Is he in order to continue with the blame game?

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister was giving a historical background and I think that there is nothing wrong with that.

The hon. Member for Lukulu East may proceed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I am very surprised at the turn of events.

I am aware that there is a Ministry of Justice, and an able one for that matter. Why are we now being told that the Bill requires a legal expert when the Ministry of Justice is there to advise the Government on matters relating to Bills so that these inconsistencies being talked about are harmonised? Why is the Government hiring a consultant at a great cost?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, our aim is to ensure that we get an independent body within Zambia …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: … as consultant.

Mr Speaker, I referred to the fact that a committee comprising officers from the Ministries of Justice, and Information and Broadcasting has been formulated. However, we still need an external expert to advise on the way forward.

I thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, it is gratifying to note that the hon. Minister has tried to state the position regarding the point of order that was raised by Hon. Mweetwa.

Sir, it is true that the Public Order Act is in conflict with certain very important clauses in our Constitution such as the Bill of Rights, Right to Association and Right to Movement. The PF has decided to follow the Public Order Act to the letter even though it is in conflict with the Constitution.

Why is it that this particular Bill cannot be brought to this House when the Public Order Act has been used in this country even when it is against the grand norm of this country which is the Constitution?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, it is very interesting to listen to the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central who is a seasoned politician and knows very well that the Public Order Act was enacted some time back.

Sir, I am sure that the hon. Minister of Justice would be in a much better position to give a clearer response.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, the people of Zambia want a Government that can walk the talk. This is one of the most embarrassing statements to ever come from Parliament.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, the Access to Information Bill was on the priority list of the PF Government before it came into power. Why has it taken two years to realise that there are lacunas in this law?

Mr Kambwili: Which is longer, ten years or two years?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe is a seasoned politician ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mbula mano!

Mr Kapeya: … and he should differentiate between ten years and two years. Which one of the two is longer?

Sir, we have pledged to the Zambian people to enact this Bill. We have been in power for two years and we are confident that the Bill, which was thrown out by our colleagues, will be given to the Zambian people. This is our wish as a Government.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that a consultant would be hired. Can he confirm that the Government has got no confidence in the competence of the Office of the Attorney-General which has got legal experts?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, the Office of the Attorney-General is part of the committee which has been formed. As a committee, we have decided to get expertise from outside.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, this Bill has raised a lot of issues. For a serious Government, I would have expected it to prioritise it.

Hon. Minister, what is so difficult about projecting a time frame within which this legal expert will conclude what you expect of him/her to do so that you come to this House with specific answers regarding the time frame? Did you give him an open-ended cheque?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I thought I made it very clear that one month …

Hon. Government Members: One month!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

It is the hon. Minister answering. Please, do not help him because he is capable of giving an answer.

Laughter

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I made it very clear that one month will be sufficient enough for us to go through the whole process and bring back the Bill to Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister say yes or no.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Hon. Minister, will you bring the Bill to this House before this Parliament adjourns in December this year?

Mr Kapeya: Sir, that is a very good question.

Laughter

Mr Kapeya: It is a very, very good question.

Laughter

Mr Kapeya: As Ministries of Information and Broadcasting, and Justice, we have said that this will be done during the life of this Parliament. That is, any time it sits …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kapeya: I am giving you the answer.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah, awe! Bring the Bill.

Mr Kapeya: We will bring it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapeya: We will present the Bill before the end of 2015.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Laughter

Mr Kapeya: What are you laughing at? Otherwise, if 2015 …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

There has to be order in the House. We cannot be debating like this.

Mr Kapeya: … is after one month, we will present it then.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah, awe!

Laughter

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister, …

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me the opportunity to raise this very compelling point of order.

Sir, is the hon. Minister in order to give conflicting statements within two minutes? In one breath, he is telling us that he needs one month to bring the Bill to this House while in another breath, he is talking about bringing it at the end of 2015.

Is he in order to contradict with himself?

Interruptions

Mr Livune: Lisholi!

Mr Hamudulu: I need a very serious ruling from you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, as you answer the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central, you may also address that point of order.

May the hon. Member for Kalomo Central continue, please.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that in answering the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central relating to whether the Ministry of Justice would interpret the law on behalf of this Government, the hon. Minister said that there were several pieces of legislation involved in scrutinising the Bill before it is enacted. Why did the ministry find it important to hire someone from outside at a great expense at a time we are really struggling with finances to run this Government which has Budget overruns? How can the hon. Minister ignore the Ministry of Justice and hire a person from outside to do the work?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, firstly, I wonder where the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central got the information that we would spend a lot of money to hire experts.

Laughter

Mr Kapeya: I really wonder.

Secondly, to repeat myself, I said a committee had been formed comprising officials from my ministry and the Ministry of Justice. However, we have brought in outsiders so that people like you do …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Kapeya: … not blame us in future for coming up with a document without involving outsiders. We have brought in outsiders to satisfy you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Kapeya: Alright!

Mr Kambwili: That is all! Nabasangamo.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, in answering the hon. Member of Parliament for Siavonga, …

Mr Kambwili: Muleumfwikisha! You must pay attention!

Mr Kapeya: … I said that we would bring the Bill to this House after the consultants have completed the work in one month. I brought in the issue of 2015, which is during the life of this Parliament, in case people like you want to look at certain issues that might be in conflict …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: … with the Constitution of Zambia. However, I can assure you that after the consultant has done his/her part, we will bring the Bill to Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that a consultant had been hired. May I know who this consultant is and how much the PF Government is going to pay him/her.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member can raise a separate question for that ...

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Kapeya: ... because it is completely outside the scope of this statement. In my view, it is not necessary, honestly speaking.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Kapeya: Thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: On who?

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, all that the hon. Minister has said is rhetoric …

Dr Kalila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for allowing me raise this point of order.

Sir, our Standing Orders are very clear in the sense that when ministerial statements are given, they should not only be factual but also be appropriate to the requirements of this House. The hon. Minister on the Floor has indicated, several times, that a consultant had been hired. I am sure even you are surprised that he does not know who this consultant is. Is he in order to mention, several times, that a consultant had been hired without telling us who this consultant is and how much he/she will be paid, and yet we would like to believe that this ministerial statement was well-researched.

Is he in order, Sir?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you might wish to …

Hon. Opposition Members: No, the consultant!

Mr Deputy Speaker: What do you want me to say?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You have asked a question and I want him to address it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Now, why do you want to give me orders?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Let him answer.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Lukulu East has raised a point of order, and I am saying that as the hon. Minister responds to the hon. Member for Keembe’s question, he should also address that point of order.

May the hon. Member of Parliament for Keembe continue, please.

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that what the hon. Minister is saying is rhetoric because the MMD Government went through all the steps that he has spoken about. The Indian Government and the World Bank were involved and a committee to go and study how this law has been employed and implemented in the United Kingdom (UK) was established. Thereafter, the Bill was brought to this House for First Reading. All that was required by the Government was to move it to the Second Reading stage. My question is: When is it going to be brought for Second Reading?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: That is right!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, we discovered that our colleagues did not do a lot of work with regard to this Bill.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kapeya: So, we had to restart the whole process. I am assuming that, maybe, our colleagues found difficulties in bringing it for Second Reading. However, as the PF Government, we want to ensure that the document is well polished.

Sir, on the issue of hiring a consultant, I wish to say that at the time of updating the House on how much we will spend, we will definitely come up with a figure. In order to satisfy the hon. Members’ curiosity, the consultant is Bemvi Associates.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister …

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting in order not to answer my question? I asked when he was going to bring the Bill for Second Reading, but he has not answered my question.

Is he in order, Sir?

Hon. Government Members: He has answered.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I understood him to have said when the Government is ready. Hon. Minister, can you repeat the answer you gave.

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: It cannot start from Second Reading.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, there is no way we were going to continue with a document which only went as far as First Reading and then was abandoned by our colleagues in the previous Government. We had to restart the process. We have to introduce the Bill ourselves and let it go through all the stages in the House. I hope Hon. Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha will be the first to debate the Bill when we present it to Parliament for Second Reading.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told us the name of the consultant. However, he has not mentioned how much the consultation fees are. Is he telling us that the Governemnt engaged a consultant without knowing the consultancy fees?

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, it is surprising to get certain questions from hon. Members of Parliament.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kapeya: Firstly, all that we need to know is how much work will be involved in the consultation before the fees are arrived at.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Kapeya: The consultant will come up with his own rates and that is what we are waiting for. So, between …

Hon. UPND Member: Masholi.

Mr Kapeya: Sir, I need your protection.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think the heckling is becoming too much. There has to be order. If you do not want to listen, the only honourable thing to do is go out. You are pushing me too far. Hon. Members on my left, please, let this be the last time I am telling you to let the hon. Minister respond.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, at a certain stage, we will give the House the actual amount that will be involved.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, the PF Government gave deadlines relating to when the Bill would be presented to this House. Did the Government not realise the conflicts that this Bill has with other pieces of legislation, or have they just realised that now?

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am sorry for disturbing Hon. Dr Kazonga’s flow of thought. After having given us the entire scope of work that is required to harmonise this Bill with the existing laws and the entire list of the pieces of legislation that do not seem to be in sync with this particular law, the hon. Minister has also said that he does not know the exact contract amount with Bemvi Associates who, I believe, are very good lawyers, fit to be consultants. Is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting in order to tell us that the Government just gave the consultants a blank cheque to determine the cost of the work at the end of the exercise? Is that prudent management of finances?

Mr Deputy Speaker: When I sit here, I also have people to consult. Do not think that I make these decisions without consulting. If the hon. Minister is not able to say it, then I will do so. The information I have is that it is not legal to reveal details of the contract. So, on that basis, we have to let the issue rest.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Vubwi can continue.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that the PF Government, which has been in power for two years now, gave certain dates relating to when …

Hon. Opposition Member rose.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Somebody is asking a question and then you rise on what he is asking.

You may continue.

Dr Kazonga: … this Bill would come to this House. Has the PF Government just woken up and realised that this Bill has an impact on a number of pieces of legislation?

Mr Kapeya: ... (inaudible).

Hon. Opposition Members: Use the microphone.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Turn on the microphone.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, yes, we have promised that we will produce the Access to Information Bill and give it to the Zambia people, but only after studying it. There are three stages that it has to pass through before we can do that. The process begins with the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, then it goes to the Ministry of Justice. Thereafter, it goes to the Cabinet and, finally, it is brought to Parliament. So, it is within these stages that some of the anomalies were captured. Therefore, it might interest you, Hon. Dr Kazonga, that our desire is to present this Bill to Parliament. However, it could be due to other anomalies that were noted during this process that it has taken us this long to bring it to Parliament. However, once we are through with the consultations, we promise to present the document to this House. After all, it is our desire, as a new Government, to give this document to the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

You see, I am giving as many hon. Members as possible opportunities to ask questions because of the importance of the issue under discussion. However, if we are going to derail the discussion by raising several points of order, we might go astray. So, please, can we limit these points of order so that as many hon. Members as possible can ask questions.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious procedural point of order. On several occasions, hon. Cabinet Ministers have informed this House the contract sums for the contracts that have been entered into. Today, we are told that it is illegal for contract sums to be mentioned in this House. If that is the case, is the Government in order to continue mentioning contract sums pertaining to contracts that have been awarded to contractors on behalf of the Government when that is illegal?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is a very nice way of challenging the ruling of the Chair.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: However, the ruling of the Chair on that one, believing that the advice I was given was correct, is that legal fees are normally not revealed. I am using the word normally, meaning there could be times when that can happen.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member who was on the Floor continue.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the Government has engaged a consultant for it to come up with this Bill.

Mr Mbewe rose.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I just said that we have to limit the points of order. Through the powers that you have vested in me, I have decided not to allow any more points of order.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Sir, how many people or companies tendered for this consultation job?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I must admit that I do not have that information at hand.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, I think it is now clear that the PF Government is just wasting taxpayers’ money.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: The Government runs on a budget. How much money has been reserved for this process?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, when we started the process of enacting this Bill, some money was budgeted for this.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that a consultant has been hired. Is this consultant a Zambian or foreigner?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, the name of the consultant is Bemvi Associates. It is now up to the hon. Members to find out whether this company is Zambian or not.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Kapeya: However, as long it is a registered company in Zambia, it should be awarded contracts to provide the services required by the Zambian Government or people.

Thank you, Sir.

____________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

CLINIC AT KALUMWANGE

72. Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) when the construction of a clinic at Kalumwange Centre in Lalafuta Ward would commence;

(b) when the pharmacy, which was gutted by fire at Nkeyema Clinic, would be reconstructed;

(d) if so, what measures the Government had taken to upgrade the clinic.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Mulenga): Mr Speaker, construction of a clinic at Kalumwange Centre in Lalafuta Ward had been assessed by a team from the Provincial Health Office and Provincial Buildings Engineer of the Western Province in 2012. A material schedule was produced and works were carried out with support from the provincial administration. However, the following items remained incomplete:

(a) construction of three staff houses and their respective ventilated improved pit latrines (VIPs);

(b) supply of a solar borehole;

(d) construction of an incinerator; and

(e) provision of solar power to the entire facility.

Mr Speaker, the Provincial Health Office is still sourcing funds to finalise the works.

Sir, the Provincial Health Office has been able to source funding to facilitate rehabilitation works to the pharmacy building at Nkeyema, and works are currently ongoing. The Government will not upgrade Nkeyema Clinic to a district hospital. Instead, it will construct a new district hospital in the area. The District Community Health Office in Kaoma has been tasked to find a new location for the construction of the new district hospital, as the location of the clinic is not ideal for the new structure due to poor soils. The District Community Health Office in Kaoma is in the process of locating land for the construction of the new hospital.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, when is the Government planning to start constructing the new hospital?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I have just mentioned that we have tasked the District Health Management Team to look for a place where we can construct the hospital. Therefore, we cannot tell when the construction will start since we have not yet identified the site.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, which is more expensive between upgrading a clinic and putting up a new hospital?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, obviously, constructing a new hospital costs much more than upgrading a clinic. However, the policy of this Government is to construct a new district hospital or Level I hospital in every district. Nkeyema is a newly-created district in Kaoma and this is why we are putting up a new district hospital there.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, how much money was set aside for the hospital?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the project is still at the planning stage.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, in the event that land is made available to the ministry …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order which needs clarification for the benefit of the Zambian people. On Tuesday, several points of order were raised relating to the absence of the Cabinet in this House. We were not given proper answers, resulting in the collapse of the quorum. The Daily Nation tabloid of today says that about fifty PF hon. Members of Parliament missed Parliament to strategise and that President Sata is facing a revolt. It further states that these are hon. Cabinet Ministers. Another tabloid shows hon. Ministers at a wedding.

We know that even for national days of certain important countries, only one Deputy Minister is sent to represent the country. We, however, have a situation where nearly all hon. Cabinet Ministers and some hon. Deputy Ministers end up at a wedding of a child of a businessman when Parliament is in session. We need clarification for the benefit of the Zambian people whether it is true some hon. Ministers were strategising against the Head of State while others were attending a wedding, ignoring the importance of Parliament.

Is the Executive in order to do that?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: That point of order is defective in that it relates to something which happened, as you said, on Tuesday. Therefore, according to our rules, it cannot be upheld. However, a ruling was made very clearly that day, which was that the work of Parliament takes precedence over any other business. An appeal was made that hon. Ministers should be available in the House when Parliament is sitting.

The hon. Member for Sikongo may continue.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, in the event that Nkeyema, the new district, provides land, how soon would the district hospital be constructed?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, when the land is provided, the tender procedures will commence.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister is saying that for projects that require money, the province has to source it. Where is the province going to source the money?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I think that my colleague did not get what I said. I said that the province sourced money to rehabilitate a pharmacy that was destroyed by fire. The money was sourced by the Provincial Health Office and the pharmacy is under rehabilitation at the moment. I actually went to Nkeyema personally and I know the situation there very well. I found the works going on.

I thank you, Sir.
EXPLORATION AT NAMIBWE

73. Mr Antonio asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development what the results of the exploration carried out in the Namibwe Area of Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency were.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, the results of the exploration works that were conducted in the Namibwe Area of Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency were negative.

Mr Speaker, BHP Billiton held a prospecting licence for copper and gold over the Namibwe Area from 2010 to 2012. Due to the poor results of the exploration programme which was undertaken, the operations ceased in December, 2011.

I thank you, Sir.

KAPALALA/MILENGE BOMA ROAD

74. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications:

(a) whether the 30 km stretch of the road between Kapalala and Milenge Boma, which was in a deplorable state, would be repaired before the onset of the rains; and

(b) if not, what contingency measures the Government would take to ensure that Milenge District was not cut off from the rest of the country.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications (Mr M. H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the Kapalala/Milenge Road Project is under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. The road has been earmarked for upgrading to bituminous standard under Phase III of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project which will commence in 2015.

Mr Speaker, the road is passable because it recently underwent some spot improvement to ensure that Milenge District is not cut off during the rainy season.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, this road is passable, but I would like to bring to the attention of the Government, particularly Hon. Mukanga who claimed yesterday that he was from Nchelenge, that on three or four occasions, this short stretch has not been worked on professionally by the experts. When you hear that Milenge Road is in a bad state, it is this short stretch in particular that is being referred to. Is it not prudent that this attracts your attention in order to help the people of Milenge during the rainy season? Of course, the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is not disputable.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You are making a statement. The hon. Minister may answer the question.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, we will send our engineers to check on the road. If, indeed, it is in a state of disrepair, we shall move in to work on it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Excellent.

NEW CONSTITUTION

75. Mr Mbulakulima asked the Minister of Justice:

(a) when the road map for the enactment of a new Constitution would be published;

(b) whether the Government had included, in its road map, the holding of a referendum as a way of adopting the Constitution;

(d) what the estimated cost of holding a referendum was.

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the road map on the enactment of the new Republican Constitution will be published after the final Draft Constitution by the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution has been handed over to the Government.

Sir, the referendum process on the adoption of the new Constitution shall depend on the format and content of the Draft Constitution to be presented by the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution, and the Government shall comply with the existing provisions of the Referendum Act, Chapter 14 of the Laws of Zambia in holding the referendum.

Sir, it is difficult, at this stage, to determine the cost until details of the process have been worked out.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Hon. Minister …

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Very good.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: You see, the hon. Member for Chembe is complaining because you are disturbing his line of thought.

Mr Mbulakulima: I said that it is alright.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, my sincere apologies to the hon. Member for Chembe.

Sir, I would like to find out if the hon. Minister of Health is in order not to clarify the fact that nurses at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) have stopped working?

Hon. Opposition Members: Mawee!

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, can he clarify this issue to the nation. Is he in order not to tell us that nurses have stopped working?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, would you come up with a statement …

Hon. Opposition Members: Now, now!

Mr Deputy Speaker: … on that issue in the course of next week.

The hon. Member for Chembe may continue.

Mr Mbulakulima: That is a very good point of order.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, before I was disturbed by my distant cousin, I was asking the hon. Minister that taking into account that the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution is about to wind up its work, when, exactly, will this report be handed over to the President and whether it will also be given simultaneously to the public.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kabimba, SC.): Mr Speaker, the committee is about to wind up its work on the Constitution-making process. However, under the Inquiries Act, the committee is only mandated to submit a report to the President who is the appointing authority of the committee. Therefore, the final draft report shall not be handed over simultaneously to the President and the public.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, going by the PF’s ambitious time frame of making the Constitution in ninety days, will the hon. Minister not agree with me that this was actually an unrealistic time frame?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, can you not agree with her?

Laughter

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, that question has been raised many times, and I think that it has been appropriately answered. At no time did the PF …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: … make an undertaking to the people of Zambia that …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: … the Constitution would be ready within ninety days. The record of this House is very clear on that score.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure this House and the nation at large that when 2016 comes, Zambia is going to hold elections under a new Constitution. Can he confirm that?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the Constitution-making process is exclusively being driven by the Zambian people. Therefore, if the Zambian people deem it fit that it should go beyond 2016, so shall it be.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, if the process is concluded before 2016, then the next election will be held under a new Constitution.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister just informed us that there is a possibility of having a referendum if it will be found desirable after the final draft of the Constitution has been handed over to the President. To ensure that there is no excuse at the end of the day, has the Government considered providing a portion in the coming Budget for the referendum should this be found to be desirable?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I will be pre-empting the Budget that is going to be presented by the hon. Minister of Finance if we start debating it at this stage.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, in an earlier statement, we have been told that the road map on the new Constitution will only be arrived at after the documents have been handed over to the President. May I know what is difficult about arriving at a road map now that includes the handover dates for these documents?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the difficulty is that this is not within the domain of the Government. This is being handled by the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution and the committee is completely autonomous and independent of the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, in this House, we tend to have a trail of things going on. There was a different hon. Minister of Justice sitting over there when the decision to formulate a Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution was arrived at. Many questions were raised on the fears people had on the Inquiries Act and there were demands for a legal backing of the Constitution-making process. Among the answers that were given by the then hon. Minister of Justice then was an assurance that immediately the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution finished making the Draft Constitution, it would be handed over to both the President and the public. Why does the hon. Minister of Justice and his party find it fit to deceive us throughout to a point where they have now applied the Inquiries Act so that we go back to having a White Paper on the Constitution where various changes will be made? Why did they have to do that?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I am not very sure whether my answer really carries any duplicity as has been suggested by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central. The truth of the matter is that the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution was appointed by His Excellency the President under the Inquiries Act. The provisions of the Enquiries Act are very clear and stipulate that at the end of the process, the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution is obliged to hand over the document to the appointing authority who is His Excellency the President before it goes to any other authority. I want to emphasise that we must be very careful. We are not running a non-governmental organisation (NGO), but a country. Therefore, we must comply with the provisions of the law as provided by the statutes of this country.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, there are certain parts of the Constitution which require a referendum. In the event that a referendum is required to take place, has the Government put any measures in place for a census to be conducted, and is that going to be included in the 2014 Budget?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, again, the provisions of the Referendum Act are very clear and stipulate that you cannot have a referendum without a census preceding it.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, a few moments ago, the hon. Minister of Justice said that …

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Justice has just denied the fact that the PF Government ever informed the nation that it was going to have the Constitution within ninety days. The President’s Speech to this House for 2011, on page 39 says that:

“The Patriotic Front Government attaches great importance to good governance and we are committed to deliver a new people-driven Constitution within ninety days.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, that was from the President’s Speech. Is the hon. Minister of Justice in order to deny what was said by the President in his Speech for 2011, to mislead the House and to refuse to answer my humble question?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, you can answer …

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, you will respond to that point of order as you answer the question that has been raised by the hon. Member for Luena. I mean Liuwa.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, a few minutes ago, the hon. Minister of Justice said that the road map for completing the Constitution is in the hands of the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution which is autonomous, and yet a few months ago, the hon. Minister gave the committee an ultimatum …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You may continue, Hon. Dr Musokotwane.

Dr Musokotwane: ... to finish its work by a specific date, which I cannot remember now. Can he now clarify to the country what the actual situation is? Is there still an ultimatum or it is no longer there? Is it really true that the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution is the one controlling the road map, when he gave the committee an ultimatum?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, this issue is very clear. The issue of the ultimatum in respect of the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution did not come from the Government. I think the Government was holding the committee against its own road map when it undertook to complete the process by 30th June, 2013. I am surprised that the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa does not even remember the date. The committee voluntarily told the Government that it would complete the process by 30th June, 2013.

Sir, what led to the ultimatum was the fact that the committee asked for a supplementary budget which the Government did not have. So, there is no conflict between what I said four months ago and what I am saying to the people of Zambia this afternoon.

Mr Speaker, on the question of the ninety days, the Speech by His Excellency the President, was, in fact, given after 20th September, 2011. So, you can choose where you want to start counting the ninety days from.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Is it from 20th September, 2011 or from the date of the Speech?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Let me just conclude by saying that there is nowhere in the PF Manifesto where the period of ninety days is canvassed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, I hope the hon. Minister of Justice is aware that the rapporteur for the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution, Mr Ernest Mwansa, recently made it very clear that the new Draft Constitution would be presented to the President and the public simultaneously. I want to find out whether this position has since changed.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, what is reported in the print media is hearsay.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: As Minister of Justice, I rely on the correspondence between the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution and my office. I do not go by what is reported in the media because no Government is run through the media.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalomo Central. Have you given up?

Mr Muntanga: Yes, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I do not know what has gone wrong now because the last two Presidents of this country preferred that the Constitution be handed over to the Government and the public simultaneously. So, I do not know what has gone wrong now that this Government does not want to give an opportunity to the public to see what they have demanded to be included in the Constitution.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, nothing has gone wrong. What has gone right this time around is that we have a new President and a new Government, after the last one was kicked out.

Interruptions

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Sir, the last Constitution-making process was governed by a separate piece of legislation which is the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) Act.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: The current one is being governed by the Inquiries Act, and the provisions of the Inquiries Act are very clear and different from those of the NCC Act.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Kabompo West is the last one to ask a follow-up question since we have exhausted this Question.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mwamba entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: GBM! Aleisa, aleisa!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Opposition Members: Aleisa, aleisa!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can we have order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aleisa, aleisa!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You know, you are just creating ‘something’ out of nothing.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member for Kabompo West continue, please.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No more points of order.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, proceed.

Mr Lufuma: … time and again, the PF Executive has assured this nation that the Constitution-making process will be people-driven.

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

How can I overrule my own ruling? I said no more points of order, and you are raising a point of order.

Mr Nkombo: It is a re-think, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: Suddenly, we have the ‘Inqiries’ Act.

Hon. Members: ‘Inqiry’!

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: It is okay.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Lufuma: It depends on where you come from. It can be inquiry or ‘inqiry’.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Lufuma: Please, you can either use British or American English. It is as simple as that. ‘Inqiry’ is the American pronunciation.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, continue, hon. Member. Do not be diverted.

Mr Lufuma: I thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: Now that the process …

Hon. Opposition Member: Hanjika!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Lufuma: … is about to be completed, there is a u-turn which is another don’t kubeba, meaning, do not tell them the truth.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the truth is that this Government promised that the Constitution-making process will be people-driven. You are now saying that you will not give the Draft Constitution to the people and the President simultaneously. What has gone wrong? Why have you turned around? Why have you somersaulted? Is this another don’t kubeba?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think we should be fair with the hon. Minister. He has already given an answer to a similar question which was asked by the hon. Member for Senga Hill. We will be going through the same issue over and over again. Therefore, the Chair will use his discretionary powers now.

SOCIAL CASH TRANSFER PROGRAMME IN NORTH-WESTERN PROVINCE

76. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a) when the Social Cash Transfer Programme would be introduced in the North-Western Province; and

(b) in which districts the programme would be introduced over the period of five years from 2013.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Kazunga): Mr Speaker, I am happy to inform the House that the Social Cash Transfer Programme will be introduced in Zambezi District, North-Western Province, in 2012.

Mr Deputy Speaker: In 2012? This is 2013.

Ms Kazunga: It was introduced in 2012.

Currently, 1,962 households are benefitting from this programme in the district.

Sir, by 2016, the Social Cash Transfer Scheme is expected to be rolled out in all the districts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what conditions should prevail in an area for it to qualify for the Social Cash Transfer Scheme.

Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, the criteria used for selecting beneficiaries include the inclusive model which targets about 10 per cent of the most incapacitated and extremely poor households. There is also the Child Grant Scheme, the Multiple Category Scheme and the Old Pension Scheme.

Mr Speaker, on the inclusion model, which targets 10 per cent, we look at old people, the chronically ill and disabled persons. On the Child Grant Scheme, the households that have children under the age of five qualify. In the Multiple Category Scheme, we target households that are female headed with orphans, the old aged with orphans and households with disabled members. On the Old Pension Scheme, we target individuals who are sixty years of age and above.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, will this programme with its benefits be extended to areas other than the North-Western Province?

Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, I have already indicated that this programme is rolling out to all the districts. By 2014, the number of districts to benefit will increase to about fifty districts …

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Ms Kazunga: … from the nineteen districts that are currently benefiting. By 2016, all the districts will be benefitting from this scheme.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the answer that the hon. Deputy Minister has given. However, I would like to find out if she can provide us with a schedule which will show which districts will be covered, year by year, until the rollout has been completed.

Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, that is a very good question because such information is needed for hon. Members of Parliament to follow up this programme.

Sir, the districts that will follow are those that have a high number of disabled people and the programme will be extended like that. I do not want to pre-empt my hon. Minister’s speech which will give direction on how this programme will be rolled out. I hope the hon. Members of Parliament can be patient enough to wait for the ministerial statement.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the Social Cash Transfer Scheme is donor-driven. It is a programme that started in Kalomo in 2003, but has always had the problem of counterpart funding from the Government. We have heard of this scheme being rolled out before from the hon. Ministers of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. Is it now budgeted for as opposed to relying on donor funding?

Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, I am happy to reply that the Government’s contribution is 53 per cent while the donors are putting in 47 per cent. This is for the 2014 Budget.

Mr Muntanga: Is there a Budget?

Ms Kazunga: The Budget which is yet to be presented.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga rose on a point of order.

BASIC SCHOOL UPGRADING IN MWINILUNGA

77. Mr Katuka asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education :

(a) whether the Government had any plans to upgrade the following basic schools to secondary schools:

(i) Katemwa;

(ii) Chiwoma;

(iii) Sailunga;

(iv) Lumwana;

(v) Kakoma; and

(vi) Tom-Ilunga; and

(b) if so, when the plans would be implemented.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, earlier in the week, the hon. Minister indicated the Government’s direction, especially for 2014, in which we plan to upgrade 220 basic schools to secondary schools. According to simple mathematics, this means that each province will have twenty-two basic schools upgraded.

Sir, as a result of that, I would like to request the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwinilunga and other hon. Members of Parliament to take an interest in this programme so that they can liaise with the provincial education offices on which schools are strategically located and they will be upgraded.

Mr Speaker, I would like to indicate to the hon. Member for Mwinilunga that the Provincial Education Officer for North-Western Province, in consultation with the District Education Board (DEB) Office, will make a decision on which schools are going to be upgraded in Mwinilunga. I cannot say for certain, at the moment, whether the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education will upgrade those six basic schools or not.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, it should be put on record in the House that there is no hon. Minister who discusses the Budget before it is presented. I am not even sure whether or not the Budget has been discussed by the Cabinet.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, who does not even sit in the Cabinet, in order to inform this House that there is a roll-out programme of up to 53 per cent Government funding to the Social Cash Transfer Scheme in a Budget which does not exist?

Hon. Government Members: Proposed.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I deliberately did not give you that point of order so that I could rule you out of order …

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: … so your point of order is not in order.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Long live the Chair!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order pertaining to the happenings in the Local Government system.

Mr Speaker, this week, starting from Monday, a number of council employees in various localities in the country have decided to go on strike because the Government has failed to honor its obligations of paying salary grants. As a result of that failure, in my constituency, Monze Central, the council employees have stopped providing the requisite services of grave digging and collection of refuse which is endangering the lives of the people of Monze. I tend to think that this is the situation that is obtaining in other councils.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing in order to remain mute …

Mr Muntanga: And sit there.

Mr Mwiimbu: … and appear happy as if all is well when the lives of our people are being threatened?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Is she in order to remain silent without addressing the issue on the Floor of this House and telling the representatives of the people what is happening?

Mr Deputy Speaker: My serious ruling is that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing must come up with a ministerial statement on this issue next week.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that as hon. Members of Parliament, we should liaise with the Provincial Education Officers (PEOs) with regard to the schools that are supposed to be constructed. After the Government had changed the policy from basic schools to secondary schools, I would have thought, in the interest of planning, that this would be the first thing that they would do in order to see which strategic secondary schools would be constructed.

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, could I know whether this path has been followed in the interest of planning.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, in fact, we are trying to give the hon. Members of Parliament an opportunity to consult with the respective provinces. This is also part of decentralisation. As Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, we have the Directorate of Planning. What is important is to ensure that we do not just come and tell you that this is the school that we are going to upgrade in your particular area. We want the information to come from your district in liaison with the province.

When the hon. Minister was responding to a question earlier this week, he mentioned a key phrase, “the strategically-located basic schools”. These are the schools that are going to be considered. We do not want a situation where when we come up with a list of schools to be upgraded, you tell us that, “as far as I am concerned, this is not a strategically-located school.” Hon. Members of Parliament, what we are giving you is an opportunity to liaise with your provincial administration in terms of which schools should be upgraded. Those decisions will have to be made at local level.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I will not allow that point of order because the hon. Member has not started debating.

Can the hon. Member continue.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. .

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, please. Can the hon. Member continue.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, with regard to what was said last week with regard to upgrading of basic schools, could the hon. Minister come out clearly and give instructions to the DEBSs in the various districts to convene meetings with hon. Members of Parliament in order to come up with this strategic plan to pick which schools should be upgraded. I think there is a problem …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think you have made your point.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, that is a very good suggestion. This is why I was saying that we want to allow broader consultation with the hon. Members of Parliament and the communities. I think the hon. Minister is going to relay that information through the Permanent Secretary.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, last time, the hon. Minister said that 220 schools were going to be constructed in the country. This works out to two schools per constituency. Is there any criteria being used with regard to the selection of schools in the constituencies?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, just like Hon. Muchima suggested, we shall inform the PEOs and DEBS. As part of that consultation, of course, the ministry will issue the guidelines on the direction the selection process is going to take.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

______________

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

MOTIONS

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I thank you …

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Mutale: … for giving me this opportunity to …

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this rare opportunity to raise a point of order. As you know, I rarely stand on points of order. In my language, we say, “Wakake, sakaleka.” In the same language, we say, “Mwana wa njoka, ni njoka ndithu.” We also say, “Chintu chikankhala cho tyoka, ni cho tyoka.” This means that bad habits have got a tendency of repeating themselves. It also means that bad behaviour, especially if it has not been admonished, has got a tendency of repeating itself.

Sir, yesterday and the other day, you guided wisely that hon. Cabinet Ministers should take the Business of this House seriously and that parliamentary business should take precedence over all other matters. Out of all the twenty hon. Cabinet Ministers, there are only five in the House at the moment. The rest are not here.

Mr Speaker, are the hon. Cabinet Ministers in order to continue running away from this House, disregarding your wise counsel and guidance, thereby reducing the effectiveness of this House? Are they in order to continuously behave in this manner?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

This is the second time that type of point of order is being raised. This is just for me to re-emphasise or repeat what was said yesterday. We have always said that the work of the House takes precedence and that it is important that hon. Ministers are here. Once again, hon. Chief Whip, please, ensure that those who are not attending to other business outside the House are present during the meetings.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted by that point of order, I was thanking you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion which is on the Floor of the House.

Sir, firstly, I would like to pass my condolences to Hon. Sakeni’s family, the party and his Excellency the President on his demise. I would also like to welcome the only lady, although she is not present, who made it to Parliament through a by-election.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where is she?

Mr Mutale: I would also like to welcome the other hon. Members of Parliament who have joined this House.

Mr Speaker, I would like to commend this Motion on the Floor of the House where his Excellency the President talked about infrastructure development programmes. I would like to cite my experiences probably in the areas that I am familiar with in my constituency such as Kitwe and the other areas on the Copperbelt and the Northern provinces.

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, is this House in order to continue debating the Motion of Thanks like we did in 2011 and 2012? Secondly, now that we have been told that the PF Manifesto takes precedence over the President’s Speech or Motion of Thanks, is it in order to debate the President’s Speech when we have just been told that it does not reflect the promises of the party and, therefore, does not carry any weight?

In 2011, the President stated that he was going to bring the new Constitution in ninety days. Is this House, therefore, in order to continue debating a Speech that might be prophetic and not literal?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, let me reiterate what I had said earlier. We should not use points of order to debate. I think we are really moving out of the line of our responsibility. The onus is on us presiding officers to ensure that we minimise the use of points of order for debating purposes. Sometimes, we want to relax so as to find out whether the points of order that you are raising will be relevant, procedural and with decorum. However, most of these points of order do not fall in any one of these categories I have mentioned. I hope that we can heed this advice. I will, therefore, not make any ruling on that point of order.

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I would like to state that the President’s Speech was very inspiring …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mutale: … and encouraging to all of us.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Some of us are able to see what is happening on the ground, especially in areas that our friends turn a blind eye to.

Interruptions

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I would like to talk about the infrastructure development that is currently taking place in the country. Let me talk about the Mufuchani Bridge which has been talked about for many years.

Mr Mushanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: The construction of this bridge was talked about in the reign of the United National Independence Party (UNIP) and the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). This has now been achieved in the first year of the Patriotic Front (PF) in Government. This Government has truly given the people their request. The Mufuchani Bridge where we lost more than sixty-six lives several years ago was of great concern. A lot of people talked about it, promises were made, but nothing was done. I mentioned it in my maiden speech, and highlighted the need for the construction of the bridge. Indeed, when the Budget was presented on the Floor of this House, it reflected that the bridge had been budgeted for.

Mr Speaker, I am very proud to report that the project has since taken off.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: Bwekeshapo, Mudala.

Mr Mutale: In fact, what is currently obtaining on the ground is that the houses for the fifty-seven families that are going to be displaced to pave way for the construction of the bridge have been constructed. So far, thirty-seven houses have been built in my constituency. In addition, twenty houses in Chimwemwe Constituency, two churches and a 1.5 km road have also been constructed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: What more do you want?

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, the type of houses that have been constructed for the people are a thousand times better than the houses that they are currently living in. The houses have been constructed in such a way that instead of pit latrines, there are water-borne toilets inside the houses.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: These houses are also electrified. This is what we mean by His Excellency the President being an action-oriented man. He has acted on something that other people failed to act on.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mutale: There has been no action for the last forty-seven years. It is not a rides as we heard in some quarters, but this is what we call action.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, currently, the Ndola/Kitwe Dual Carriageway is under construction.

Mr Mushanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Where did they find the money?

Mr Mutale: Those of us that live on the Copperbelt are seeing the activities that are going on there.

Mr Sikazwe: They have closed their eyes.

Mr Mutale: The dual carriageway from Ndola to Kitwe is under construction. The road is also being resurfaced, the drainages are constructed and the bridges are being worked on. Hon. Muntanga who lives in the Southern Province should not drive there in the night.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

You see, this is why we ask you not to start a war that you cannot finish. I sat here quietly and ignored the remarks made by Hon. Muntanga. However, the hon. Member on the Floor picked them and also made the same mistake of responding. So, please, let us avoid making running commentaries once somebody is on the Floor.

Mr Muntanga: What about the point of order?

Mr Deputy Speaker: It has been rejected.

You may proceed, hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Yes, if you do not follow the rules, it will be rejected five times. We have to follow the rules.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, many times, I have heard hon. Members talk about the Bottom Road on the Floor of this House. The fact that this road is now being worked on means that this Government, which is a listening Government, has heard the cries of the people. We should acknowledge what is good. When good is done for you such as the construction of the Bottom Road, acknowledge it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, a lot of infrastructure development is going on. The Kitwe/Chingola Dual Carriageway, which has claimed a lot of lives, is being worked on. We have talked about this road for many years and, finally, it is being worked on. This is why I say that His Excellency the President is a man of action.

When people claim not to see what is happening, they are probably wearing sunglasses in the night.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: So, they are not able to see what is on the ground.

Mr Speaker, a lot of urban roads are being worked on, especially in Kitwe and my constituency, Kwacha. Kitwe only had one outlet to the south. The Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) Government has built a bridge on the stream between Kana East and Ndeke.

Hon. Opposition Members: CEC Government?

Mr Mutale: Company.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: Sir, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), has further rehabilitated the road from the Presidential Guest House to Nkana East. These are the projects that people do not want to talk about.

This is a great achievement. This is something that is currently happening. We should thank the PF Government for uplifting the living standards of the people by constructing these roads. The construction of urban roads in Kitwe District was launched by Hon. Emerine Kabanshi and the construction has since started.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: These works are uplifting the living standards of the people.

Mr Speaker, I visited the Northern Province recently. I used the Pedicle Road and found works going on. There are new bridges being constructed.

Mr Livune: Which page of the Speech are you on?

Mr Mutale: I am talking about the infrastructure development that is going on and which the President talked about in his Speech. You have eyes, but you cannot see.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: This is what the biggest problem is.

You have ears, but you do not want to hear.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: That is what the other problem is.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, infrastructure development is not only about building schools, clinics or health posts. Roads are also part of infrastructure because they are used by the public. They are public infrastructure.

Sir, some hon. Members have been complaining about the road in Miyenge. The Chembe/Mansa Road has been resurfaced. The hon. Member of Parliament for this area should appreciate that the road has been worked on.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: We try to ignore things that we see happening. The Luwingu/Kasama Road has also been worked on. The contractor has mobilised for the works on the Mansa/Luwingu Road. The road from Kasama to Mbesuma has also been worked on and is in perfect condition.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: I have driven on it.

Mr Speaker, the Mongu/Kalabo Road is being worked on.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Ndalamei: Question!

Mr Mutale: All this is infrastructure development.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education will build a high school in my constituency to be called Kwacha High School as soon as we acquire a plot. The Kitwe City Council has been mandated to find a plot where this school will be built.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: The sooner we get this plot, the better. Hon. Dr Phiri will give us the school. This is part of the infrastructure development we are talking about.

Mr Speaker, Nkana Water and Sewerage Company has embarked on serious infrastructure development by expanding the water works because of the water problems in Kitwe District. It is currently increasing the capacity of the filters, from 66,000 cubic metres to 99,000 cubic metres. This will give us additional water and the shortage that we are presently experiencing will be a thing of the past.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: The Government has also built another water works in Kalulushi. Kalulushi and Chibuluma get water from Kitwe. Nkana Water and Sewerage Company supplies water from Kitwe to Kalulushi. This infrastructure development has been completed and is at commissioning stage.

When this project is commissioned, there will be additional water. All we have to do is work on the network because some of the pipes are old. All this infrastructure development is being done by this Government.

Mr Muntanga: How do you pump the water?

Mr Mutale: How is the water pumped?

Laughter

Mr Mutale: A tower will be erected which will supply water by gravity. This is the infrastructure development that the Government has embarked on. You are seeing this, but you do not want to acknowledge that people are at work. We are at work.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mutale: These are men at work.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. H. Malama: Bwekeshenipo!

Mr Mutale: This is a Government of men at work.

Mr Muntanga: Talk about agriculture.

Mr Mutale: Agriculture is not my area.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: However, I will look at something that relates to my constituency.

Mr Speaker, recently, the people of Kwacha have been talking about waterborne toilets. This matter has been looked at by the Government that has promised the people of Kwacha that they will provide waterborne toilets. The scope of work and estimates of the job have been done. I can assure hon. Members that I have the documents in my hands ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: … which show that the Government is at work.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mutale: This is what we call men at work.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. H. Malama: Bwekeshapo!

Mr Mutale: This is a Government of men at work.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, we are the people who are seeing what the Government is doing. We should, therefore, give credit where it is due. This infrastructure development is real because we are able to see all the things that the Government is doing.

Mr M. H. Malama: Talk about salaries.

Mr Mutale: Salaries for civil servants have been increased.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Why should you complain after salaries for the civil servants have been increased? Some of us have relatives in the Civil Service and we eat with them.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I would like to conclude by encouraging the Government to maintain the speed at which it is working at because it means well. 2016 is near and people will try to detract us from achieving what we want to achieve. At the pace we are working, the PF will be in power for another forty years.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about some issues relating to the Speech by His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. Firstly, allow me to congratulate the newly-elected hon. Members of Parliament, Hon. Mphande, Hon. Mtolo, Hon. P. Phiri, Hon. Chitafu and Hon. Lombanya.

Sir, I would like to talk about the issues pertaining to youths which I thought His Excellency the President should have addressed in his Speech. These issues are dear to my heart because I would like to represent the multitudes of unemployed youths out there such as those driving taxis and buses. These are the youths I would like to speak for in this House.

Sir, this Government has had an opportunity, from 2011 to date, to be called the darlings of this country.

Hon. Government Members: We are the darlings.

Mr Kunda: However, it has lost the opportunity because it has not fulfilled the promises of the MMD, …

Mr Sikazwe: Question!

Mr Kunda: … but has decided to follow some which I will refer to so that I can make my case clear.

Mr Speaker, youth unemployment in this country has reached such alarming levels that youths have resorted to violence and criminal activities simply because this Government has not paid attention to the issues that the youths are raising.

The idea of riding on the MMD’s successes and projects …

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Kunda: … such as road infrastructure development, which the MMD started, …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Kunda: … like the Formula One Road Projects …

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You will be given an opportunity to debate and, if you have the occasion, you can rebut what he is saying. Please, listen for now.

Can you continue, please.

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, the Formula One Road Projects that the MMD initiated …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order which borders on the security of this country. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs or His Honour the Vice-President in order not to inform this House of the happenings in Maamba? A young lady went missing and was later found murdered. This made people riot and break into the houses of the District Commissioner (DC), leaving his property damaged, the Police Commanding Officer (CO) and some police officers. One house was burnt and a shop ransacked. People went wild and the police were helpless because it is alleged that before this young lady was killed, she went to the police to seek help. Unfortunately, the police officers sent her away only to be killed on the same day.

Is this Government in order to keep quiet and not inform us about what is happening in Maamba? I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The serious ruling is that you file in a question of an urgent nature.

May the hon. Member continue, please?

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that the Formula One Road Projects were initiated by the MMD, and the PF Government is riding on the MMD’s back.

Hon. Government Members: Awe! No! Question!

Mr Kunda: Sir, more than 67 per cent of this country’s population consists of the youth. Since the youths are the majority in this country, they should be given an opportunity to be employed, earn money and get loans to start businesses. However, this Government is not paying attention to these issues.

The retirement age has been increased to sixty-five, and yet we have youths out there who are supposed to get employed at this time. It means that they will have to wait for ten years to occupy positions that are still occupied by people who have reached the age of fifty-five, but cannot retire. So, they have to wait until after ten years, which is not acceptable.

Mr Speaker, the youths are expecting their Government to make sure that it addresses the issues affecting them. For example, there have been riots and violence at higher learning institutions, but the Government is not addressing the issues that youths in these learning institutions are raising such as the accommodation crisis at the Copperbelt University (CBU) in Kitwe. Instead of the Government addressing these issues, it decided to close the institution.

Mr Speaker, this Government needs to address issues that concern the youth. The youth value their country and so, they would not like to be involved in illegal activities. They want their Government to make sure that they are employed and have money in their pockets.

This is a one-term Government because ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: ... unemployment among the youth in this country has reached alarming levels. The proposed retirement age of sixty-five years will also not help change this state of affairs. The PF Government has also neglected the fundamental rights of human beings. The right to associate freely or get information freely, as evidenced by the Government’s failure to bring the Access to Information Bill to this House for enactment, are examples of its failure to uphold human rights.

Mr Speaker, I am a man of few words, but I make sure that whenever I speak, the country listens.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, this is a Government that just commissions projects initiated by the MMD Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor on behalf of the people of Lupososhi Constituency and, indeed, on my own behalf.

Mr Speaker, I also wish to pass my condolences to the family of the late Hon. Sakeni, may his soul rest in peace. He was a gallant man. Each time I visited my constituency, I usually spent nights in his constituency.

Sir, I further wish to congratulate and welcome our colleagues who have joined this august House. Lady and gentlemen, you are welcome aboard. What is key is that you are here to represent the Zambian people and those who elected you.

Mr Speaker, I have listened very carefully to a number of issues that have been raised not only from the President’s Speech, but also from the colleagues who have spoken. There are a number of issues that I would like to raise on the President’s Speech. I will begin from page 6 where the President talked about issues of education and skills development.

Sir, because of the seriousness that the President attaches to education, he dedicated three pages of his Speech to issues of education. He talked about infrastructure development and the critical role that vocational skills play in the development of our country.

Mr Speaker, what the President was saying is that the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education should monitor education standards in the country and ensure the delivery of quality education. There is a need to address the huge mismatch between economic growth and the growth in quality education. This is what the President’s Speech is trying to address. So, when somebody says the President’s Speech is hollow, I wonder how that can be so when the President is clearly saying we need to bring back the glorious days.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, as Parliamentarians, we know that we enacted the Higher Education Authority Act. This has led to the establishment of the Higher Education Authority. What the President is saying is that we must deliver qualitatively. Therefore, those who will be appointed to work in this authority should know the urgency for us to deliver. The President is in a hurry to ensure that he delivers quality education to the Zambian people. In view of this, this authority must make sure that it enhances the quality of education and give what our people need in terms of education.

Sir, still on education, on page 8, the President talked about the establishment of various universities in this country. This is real empowerment, and I do not see how somebody can say that the Speech is hollow. If this country had many universities, we would not be talking about the low levels of education. Nigeria has many universities and, today, the majority of that country’s population is educated. The President said we shall establish as many universities as possible so that the Zambian people can be empowered. Like I said, this is real empowerment, especially for the poor.

Mr Speaker, knowledge is power, and once acquired, no one can take it away from you and you will die with it. Education has proved to play a major role in poverty reduction. When people are educated, there is every possibility that the poverty levels in the country will reduce.

Sir, vocational skills development is another aspect that we need to be very serious about. The President touched on this issue on page 9 of the Speech. The Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) was created to take over from the Department of Technical Education and Vocational Training (DTEVT) then. At that time, we were discussing the possibility of introducing the training levy which we may have to revisit. This is where the employers should assist the Government in training the population so that while the Government pumps so much money into infrastructure development, …

Dr Kazonga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, as you know, I rarely stand on points of order. However, this one is so compelling that I had to indicate.

Sir, is the hon. Member in order to insinuate that TEVETA took over the role of DTEVT when the two are totally different and have different mandates? Is he in order to mislead the House and the nation at large?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: When the opportunity comes for you or one of your friends to debate, you can correct that, if necessary.

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying there were discussions to do with the possibility of introducing the training that was supposed to be funded through levies from all the employers to help the Government run the education sector. The idea was meant to improve the infrastructure in the education sector. That, perhaps, is what the President would like to see so that we create a fund that will help in infrastructure development.

Mr Speaker, there are many issues that the President raised in his Speech. When he said he would like us to go back to the glorious past, he meant just that. There is a catalogue of many good things that were there in the past. I want to remind certain colleagues that say that they do not want to go back to the past because there was nothing glorious about it that there was a time when this country had free education from Grade 1 to university. To me, that is something glorious about the past. There was a time when all the hospitals had drugs. I think every Zambian would like to see that come back because it was quite glorious. Even that day when the national flag was raised for the first time when we got our Independence on 24th October, 1964, that was glorious.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Therefore, I find it very difficult to believe that there is nothing glorious about the past.

Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech raised cardinal issues to do with decentralisation. Decentralisation is the key to rural development. If our colleagues do not see this and think the President’s Speech was hollow, the Zambian people are questioning that because decentralisation will definitely create an opportunity for the rural areas to develop quickly. Decentralisation will entail moving away from decisions being made centrally and, by the time they reach rural constituencies, it is too late. The only thing that we need to do is address the resistance that exists in a number of our Civil Service institutions so that we accelerate development in rural areas. The President was very clear on decentralisation.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, it is also true that the President regretted the violence …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order, on my left!

Mr Bwalya: … which characterised a number of by-elections. Again, that was quite magnanimous. He showed a lot of humility and that must be appreciated by all of us.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, violence is a non-partisan issue and we are supposed to debate it with a sober mind because it comes in different forms. There is physical and verbal violence. The question that we need to ask ourselves is what it is, as community or church leaders, we are doing to ensure that we contribute towards the eradication of violence in different forms?

Mr Speaker it is always said that it takes two to tango. There is always a provoker and one who is being provoked. If the two cannot agree, that is when physical violence erupts. Physical violence is not acceptable in this era.

Mr Livune: Like the one between GBM and Kabimba.

Laughter

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, modern politics …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Lupososhi!

It is quite evident that we are failing to listen. I have particular persons in mind that I have been ignoring, but I have to mention that your voices are clearly loud, hon. Members for Katombola and Kasenengwa.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can you, please, hold your fire until at an appropriate time.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, thank you for your protection. I was saying that modern politics depend much on the power of persuasion and intellectual discourse.

Mr Ntundu: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: This is an era for mental and not physical confrontation.

Mr Ntundu: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Bwalya: Therefore, it is only right that all of us, as Zambians, work together and iron out our differences in a good way instead of being confrontational.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: Hammer, mwana!

Laughter

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I also want to say that there are colleagues who decided to come on board to work with the Government. We appreciate their contribution and this is what governance is all about. One can come from either side of the House, work with the Government and deliver to the Zambian people. I think that is good. However, when they decide to leave, they should do so quietly.

Interruptions

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, there is a Bemba saying that goes, “Bayafye, tabasha balona.” This means that if you want to leave others, please, go in piece. Do not destroy the relationship with those you are leaving behind because you may need them at some point. So, we know that our colleagues from the Opposition served with us and we really appreciate their contribution. We should remember that we are one big family. We are a political family and in a democratic dispensation where each one of us has the right to choose where they want to belong at any time. You can do it as many times as you want. The Constitution actually gives us that leverage to do what we think is right.

Mr Speaker, rural development is critical for our country. The issue that we need to worry about is the speed at which it is being done and felt at the grassroots. Therefore, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is critical in this particular aspect. The President talked about public-private partnerships (PPPs) in ensuring that we contribute to the reduction of the housing deficit in this country. This is what all Zambians need to embrace.

Mr Speaker, for me who comes from a rural constituency like Lupososhi, I am very happy with this because if good houses are built in Luwingu District, this will reduce on the brain drain that is currently going on. Each time we take a vibrant graduate to Luwingu, he/she only stays there for one month because there is no accommodation. He/she will come back to the urban areas where there is good housing to look for another job. Eventually, this leaves vacancies in rural areas. The President is trying to drive this country towards the good old days which we have decided not to appreciate.

Mr Speaker, someone talked about an issue of one being a rider. I do not know whether somebody was talking about riding a bicycle or otherwise.

Laughter

Mr Bwalya: However, every good leader chooses how to drive the country forward. One great singer, the late Mr Don Williams, said in one of his songs that the secret to survival is knowing what to throw away and knowing what to keep. So, a leader needs to know that if, for example, the Formula One Road Projects were good for the Zambian people, they should be maintained and finished. That is leadership. On the other hand, if he/she finds that there is a lot of corruption and payments are not being done properly, he/she can either refine the system or get rid of certain individuals because the Zambian people want that which will enhance the quality of their lives.

The Zambian people are eager for change and are waiting to have good development in this country. We agree that we have been in power for two years and the President said that in his Speech. However, this two-year period cannot be compared to the twenty or twenty-seven years that other parties were in power. I think anyone can say that it is unfair to compare the developments in the two years of the PF Government to those that took place in past regimes. Give us time, and we will be able to change this country for the better.

However, it is also true that if you come from a house which is highly impoverished and you are the only one that manages to get a job, to that particular family, Mr Speaker, it does not matter whether your first salary has come or not. They start to ask for money from you even before you get your salary and have only worked for one week. We know that this country has had a lot of problems and that is true. So, the Zambian people are very eager for development.

Ms Kapata: They were caused by the MMD!

Mr Bwalya: They think that we have been in power for five years and they are in a hurry to correct us. However, we will perform and deliver as per our promise in the manifesto.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya (Solwezi East): Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Member: Bakulumpe!

Mr Lombanya: … I thank you for giving me the opportunity to make my maiden speech and add the voice of Solwezi East to the many honourable voices already heard on the Motion before this august House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, allow me also, on behalf of my electorate, to join my colleagues in expressing our solemn and heartfelt condolences to the PF Government and the family of the late Member of Parliament for Mansa Central and Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services, Hon. Kennedy Sakeni. He was a distinguished public servant who served humanity with great humility and without discrimination. We shall miss him as a friend and colleague. May his good soul rest in eternal peace.

Hon. UPND Member: Quality!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, this maiden speech would not be complete if I did not recognise and congratulate the five very special hon. Members in this House who emerged victorious in the recently-held parliamentary by-elections. I have in mind the Mkaika giant killer, …

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: … known as 9-1, Hon. Peter Phiri, Member of Parliament for Mkaika Constituency, Hon. Mtolo Phiri, Member of Parliament for Chipata Central, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa: Ladies first!

Mr Lombanya: … and the lady of the moment, Hon. Ingrid Mphande, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa: Abesu!

Mr Lombanya: … Member of Parliament for Mkushi North Constituency, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: … Hon. Brian Chitafu, Member of Parliament for Kafulafuta Constituency and, of course, myself …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: … from Solwezi East Constituency, the gateway to the new Copperbelt.

Mr Speaker, allow me to pay glowing tribute to my party president, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: … Mr Hakainde Hichilema, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: HH!

Mr Lombanya: … the management committee and the rank and file of the United Party for National Development (UPND), particularly in Solwezi and, indeed, the North-Western Province in general and elsewhere for their all-round support and physical presence in the constituency throughout the campaign that ensured the overwhelming election victory I recorded on 25 July, 2013.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, special thanks go to my family and all those close to my heart for their encouragement, love, spiritual, emotional, monetary and material support before and during the campaign. To my electors, I say well-done and thank you for keeping the promise.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: My sincere and unqualified gratitude is also extended …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my extreme right!

Mr Lombanya: … to the dedicated members of the MMD in Solwezi and the province who fought side by side with their brothers and sisters in the UPND during my campaign.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Though without resources, the spirit of unity of purpose bonded them to form a formidable force that convincingly defeated the Ruling Party.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, the will of the people …

Mr Mufalali: The poor farmers!

Mr Lombanya: … was so strong that it swept through the constituency like a vicious tornado, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Repeat it.

Mr Lombanya: … leaving the PF licking their wounds and wondering what had hit them.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Mufalali: They are even running away, now.

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, the lesson drawn from this experience is that the people of Zambia have matured politically.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: They can no longer be manipulated by the show of power or display of resources.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Helicopters!

Mr Lombanya: Those things do not matter anymore in an election.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Rather, it is the spirit and the will of the people that is at play.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: The Solwezi East and Mkaika By-elections, Mr Speaker, bear this testimony.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: I shall always live to cherish the trust and confidence that the people of Solwezi East have bestowed on me and I assure them that their efforts and sacrifice were not in vain. I shall endeavour, to the best of my ability, to be a strong and constructive voice they expect to hear in this House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: The PF is going!

Mr Lombanya: I also pledge to work hand in hand with them and, indeed, all the hon. Members of this House and other stakeholders …

Ms Lubezhi: Even those (pointing at the Government side)?

Mr Lombanya: … in finding ways and means of uplifting the lives of the poorest of the poor in our country. I am sure that, together, we shall succeed.

Mr Speaker, I also want to pay homage to my predecessor and acknowledge all the efforts he made in the service of the people of our area. He played his part, and now it remains my moral obligation and duty as a new Member of Parliament to lift the mantle and continue where he left.

Mr Mufalali: He was duped!

Mr Mbewe: Quality!

Mr Mufalali: Quality!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, the context of the Motion before the House is the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata’s Official Opening Speech to this august House on 20th September, 2013.

Mr Speaker, I would like to agree with the hon. Members who observed some improvement in the manner the President presented his Speech to the House compared to previous addresses.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear! That is right!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, this new development can only be said to be as a result of the reproach and constant constructive criticism from your left side, thereby signifying the undisputed important role that the Opposition plays in a democratic dispensation such as ours.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: I should congratulate the President on being a good student. I urge those hon. Members of the Executive who consider contributions from the Opposition as mere rhetoric to think again and take a leaf from His Excellency the President’s attitude and willingness to listen and learn.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, the President does not write his own speeches. Therefore, while he was not responsible for the contextual factors in the Speech, he, at least, endeavoured to present it in a more dignified fashion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, during the Official Opening of Parliament, the President had the opportunity to deliver his policy statement to the people of Zambia and outline how his Government has governed the country in the past years and how he intends to take the country forward. This is how it should be.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, leaders in public office must, from time to time, account to the people on how they are responding to and managing the trust given to them by the people to rule and manage the affairs of the State on their behalf.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members of this House, as representatives of the people, have a moral and constitutional obligation to critically scrutinise and analyse such a public statement to ensure that contextual factors or information contained therein is in line with the aspirations of the people and the common good of the nation.

Mr Speaker, it is in this context that over the past week, hon. Members, especially those on this side of the House, have been making their views known on various aspects of the Speech. By and large, most contributors to the Motion expressed a similar concern. This concern had to do with the style of governance of the PF Government. It has come out very clearly that the PF Administration has a propensity for arrogance …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: … in the handling of national matters, ...

Mr Mufalali: They are very arrogant.

Mr Lombanya: … and it often contradicts itself on major policy issues and continues to give empty policies, a situation which has increasingly caused frustration, confusion and anger among the people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, the frustration and anger of the people is as a result of not knowing clearly what the true policy or position of the PF Government is on national development and other important matters. In one breath, the PF Government, as the Government in power, will say it is committed to take development to all parts of Zambia without discrimination.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, in another breath, …

Mr Muntanga: Breath!

Mr Lombanya: … it will say that development will only go to the areas where there is Ruling Party representation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, on page 2 of the President’s Speech, it is stated categorically that the citizens of this land not only deserve better lives, but are also entitled to better lives. That being the principle of the PF Government, one wonders how it has continued, from time to time, to say that economic development will only go to the areas or constituencies where the PF is represented.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, the Government must come out clearly on this matter so that the people are not expectant. This should not be the case. Instead, as we all know, it is the responsibility of any responsible Government anywhere in the world to take proper and planned sustainable development to every part of the country, and it should be commensurate with the social and economic needs of that area and the aspirations of the people.

Hon. Opposition Member: The CDF.

Laughter{mospagebreak}

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, discriminating on account of political affinity is contrary to the principles of seeking public office. We must stop portraying the Opposition as though it has no constitutional role to play in the life and governance of this country. Therefore, there is no need for any hon. Member of the House to cross the Floor on account of economic development, not at all.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Linja za mukwang’uli.

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, fortunately, the people of the North-Western Province consider the issue of political affinity sterile, dead and buried.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, it does not appeal to the people anymore. The North-Western Province, as a major contributor to the resource basket of this country, should not be subjected to economic development that has conditions and strings attached to it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, the people of Solwezi East Constituency feel very frustrated because of the lack of meaningful development in their area. The area is completely cut off from the outside world because basic infrastructure, including schools, health centres, roads and bridges do not exist. There is no electricity and mobile phone network in the area. The situation is very bad along the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) Border where all school-going children and sick mothers cross into the DRC to seek school places and health facilities, and yet in the policy statement, it was declared that citizens of the land are entitled to better lives.

Mr Mufalali: Imagine.

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, better lives where? In the DRC?

Hon. Opposition Members: Eh!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, it is regrettable and sad that the North-Western Province, a province that is so much endowed with enormous mineral wealth and currently experiencing unprecedented economic boom through mining activities, is lagging behind even in basic development.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, even the main economic life line, the Chingola/Solwezi Road that is used for copper haulage has collapsed.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, the Solwezi/Kipushi Road, ...

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You may continue.

Mr Lombanya: ... a trade route to the DRC, is beyond repair, and yet if made operational, this road would decongest the Kasumbalesa Border Post.

Interruptions

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, the people of Solwezi East Constituency …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, please!

Mr Lombanya: … demand schools, health posts, adequate and clean drinking water and so on and so forth as a matter of right.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, they rightly deserve a reasonable share of the national cake because they are also Zambians. The people of Solwezi East and, indeed, the province are not happy and do not approve the new development where traditional rulers are now being paraded at political rallies …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, they find this act most demeaning and it is causing pain and public anxiety. Chiefs belong to the palace and anyone wishing to pay a courtesy call should do so at the palace. You cannot claim to respect chiefs and recognise their role in national development when you abuse them in public.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, actions that create public anger and agitation among the people must be avoided at all costs.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: Mr Speaker, the people of Zambia deserve a good Constitution. They have been waiting for it for far too long.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lombanya: This month, October, 2013, marks exactly twenty-three years since this country began the journey to give the people of Zambia a Constitution that would, at least, promote good governance, uphold the rule of law and stand a test of time.

Mr Speaker, we, in this august House, will be judged very harshly by posterity if we do not stand up to defend the Constitution which we have sworn to protect.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

Hon. Members: Which one?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Jean Kapata.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Ms Kapata: … may I begin by expressing my appreciation to you for allowing me to contribute to the debate on the Motion of Thanks on the Speech of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata.

Sir, before I go any further, allow me to pass my condolences to the Sakeni family for the loss of Hon. Sakeni, may his soul rest in peace. May I also take this opportunity to congratulate the hon. Members of Parliament who joined the House recently. I encourage them to work hard together with the PF Administration.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to echo the sentiments of other action-oriented hon. Members of Parliament who spoke before me and stated that the President’s Speech was very inspiring and has really provided the direction and compass required to take the country to a greater height.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Let me support my statement by stressing the point which the President’s Speech emphasised that the citizens of this land not only deserve better lives, but are also entitled to better lives. This means that there is an opportunity for us, as a country, to reflect on our achievements and challenges. It is equally an occasion to motivate and …

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Ndeisa, ndemichita hammer bonse, uko.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a very serious point of order. This point of order borders on integrity and credibility of this House. As you know, hon. Ministers and hon. Members of Parliament are the mirror of the general public. This Government is also on record as having said that …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The preface is becoming too long.

Mr Mbulakulima: … they are allergic to corruption.

Mr Speaker, in the recent past, this House has been brought into ridicule. The Daily Nation dated Thursday, 3 October, 2013, has a headline which says:

“Treat Kabimba as a Whistleblower.”

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I did not get that.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the headline reads, “Treat Kabimba as a Whistle Blower.”

Sir, I would like to further quote the paragraph which says:

“Kabimba was quoted last Sunday on ZNBC TV saying that he had empirical evidence on corrupt Ministers and that he was not hallucinating …”

Mr Speaker, the general public is left wondering beacuse hon. Ministers are part of this House. Is he in order to open this House to speculations to the general public out there without mentioning who the corrupt Ministers are. This is a very serious matter which needs to be clarified. Otherwise, this House risks being brought into ridicule.

I seek your very serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

This is one of those issues on which the Speakers have made their positions very clear in the past, which is to leave issues like that to be fought out there.

Please, continue, hon. Minister.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I was saying that to support my statement, I would like to stress the point which the President’s Speech emphasised that the citizens of this land not only deserve better lives, but are also entitled to better lives. This means that there is an opportunity for us, as a country, to reflect on our achievements and challenges. It is equally an occasion to motivate and energise ourselves as a united people to face the future with resolve.

Mr Nkombo: Resolve!

Ms Kapata: English is my second language. I am Lunda, mind you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, do not allow yourself to be diverted. Hon. Members, please, give her the opportunity to debate uninterrupted.

Please, continue.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the President informed the House that the Government placed high priority on vocational skills development of the youth. This has resulted in the construction and expansion of trades training institutions throughout the country.

Sir, His Excellency the President went further to inform Parliament that construction works of the trades training institutions in Kalabo and Isoka are nearing completion while those for Mwense and Mporokoso will commence before the end of this year. In addition, expansion works are underway at the Northern Technical College, Zambia Air Services Training Institutes in Choma, Chipata Trades and Kabwe Institute of Technology.

Mr Speaker, I was very sad to hear a young gentleman misrepresent information by telling the youths that the PF Government has not created a lot of jobs when there are so many jobs that the PF Government has created.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, he said that the PF was just accomplishing projects that the MMD left. However, the roads under the Formula One Road Projects, which were worked on, particularly in Lusaka, already have potholes. It is shameful for somebody to stand up and speak on the roads which were hurriedly worked on a month before the elections. People were constructing roads as though they had no vision, as though they did not know where they were going and were mad people on the streets.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, we have roads that have been worked on by the PF Government under the 8,000 km Link Zambia Road Project. Most of our people will not need to come to Lusaka when going to Kasempa. Today, when somebody is going to Kasempa from Mongu, he/she will first come to Lusaka, go to Kitwe through Solwezi and get to Kasempa. That is no longer the case. If the people coming from the Western Province want to go to Kasempa, they have go through Kaoma and get into Kasempa. They can go through Mumbwa and get into Kasempa. If the people of Livingstone and Sesheke want to go to Kaoma, they do not need to come to Lusaka, but can go to Sesheke through Mulobezi and get to Kaoma.

Sir, this is what we are talking about. The people of Zambia are seeing the development that the Government is bringing to the country.

Interruptions

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, it is very sad to hear some of the hon. Members say, “link Zambia to what; to where?” I have given a few examples and the people are listening to those that are telling the truth and those that are not.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Tell them.

Mr Antonio rose on a point of order.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order it not a right. Do not think that I have not seen you when you stand and ask for a point of order and I am not responding. I have seen you, except that at that time I am enjoying the flow of debate and I want to follow what is being said.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Having said that, hold your fire until such a time when I may have to rule you out of order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Long live the Chair!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I will now talk about Lusaka. Some hon. Members of Parliament come from the Western Province and others from the Southern Province. We have the Lusaka 400 km Road Project. When you go into Mandevu – I am sure the UPND will have a rally there on Sunday, …

Mr Livune: That is right.

Ms Kapata: … you will see a number of new roads and the people of Mandevu are very happy about them. I have lived in Lusaka for so many years, but have not seen roads that link Mandevu to all the townships in Lusaka.

Hon. MMD Members: MMD!

Ms Kapata: It is not the MMD. You never left them.

Interruptions

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the Chazanga/Kabanana Road is under construction and …

Hon. MMD Members: MMD!

Ms Kapata: … the Chipata/Kabanana Road has been completed.

Hon. MMD Members: MMD!

Laughter

Ms Kapata: We have thirty-three wards in Lusaka and every ward is receiving not less than six tarred roads. Come 2016, the people of Lusaka know what they are going to do.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, apart from that, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia has also come up with the Pave Zambia 200 …

Hon. Government Member: 2,000.

Ms Kapata: … 2,000 km Road Project that was commissioned in Chawama. The people of Chawama are happy and the people of Petauke are also happy because the Pave Zambia Road Project is already in Petauke. That is what the people of Zambia want to see.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: They will not believe the things you are talking about. They will not believe you when you talk about a hollow speech because they listened to the President’s Speech. For the first time, I did not come back to the House after the President’s Speech, but opted to sit home and watch what was going on at Parliament. I saw a lot of hon. Members of Parliament praise the President …

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Kapata: … for what he has done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Not even one person spoke ill of this year’s Speech, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Kapata: … or the developments that the President has brought to this country.

Interruptions

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I was very sad to hear people talk about health, antiretroviral drugs (ARVs) and Bacillus Calmette-Guerin (BCG). For heaven’s sake, read and find out information from the relevant ministries before you can open your mouth to talk.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: People were talking about ARVs when the Government had already introduced them. Not one person went without ARVs when there was a shortage because a system was put in place where everyone had a portion of what they needed. The BCG that they are talking about came a long time ago. Which clinics do not have ARVs?

Mr Speaker, the Government reaffirms the construction of the 650 rural health centres. It is better to get credit for bringing health services as close to the people as possible than to get nkongole and eat and …

Hon. Government Members: And bury the money.

Ms Kapata: … bury the money…

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Laughter

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I need your protection. They are derailing me.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

She needs my protection. May you, please, give her the opportunity to debate.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I was still talking about the 650 rural health posts. Each province is receiving quite a number of rural health posts …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

It will not be fair for me to give you a point of order because the hon. Members for Kaoma and Namwala had asked for points of order and I did not give them. It is not my intention to allow points of order on the person who is currently debating.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I am still talking about the 650 rural health posts. I have been campaign manager in this country several times and I have told the people that the Government is constructing 650 rural health centres.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where are they?

Ms Kapata: The signing ceremony for this project has already taken place and the construction is going to start at the same time …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Kapata: … in every district.

Interruptions

Ms Kapata: The rural health centres that I am talking about are not just rural health posts which others built where there are no houses for the staff, no staff working in those health posts and no electricity. We are calling these fully-fledged rural health posts. They are going to have a mothers’ shelters.

Interruptions

Ms Kapata: We are trying to put up health services every 5 km and as close to the people as possible.

Mr Nkombo, Ms Lubezhi, Mr Mbewe, Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha stood on points of order at the same time.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, give me the benefit of the doubt. I had said that I do not want to allow any more points of order on the person on the Floor. I see hon. Members on my left still wanting to make points of order despite my ruling. I cannot go back on my ruling. You may just have to hold on.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, we know that Zambia has a high maternal mortality and these clinics are fully-fledged with mothers’ shelters so that those who live far from the clinics can come in a day or two before their expected date of delivery. In so doing, the maternal mortality rate will be reduced.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Kapata: We are also installing solar electricity at all these rural health centres. We are also going further to construct …

Interruptions

Ms Kapata: It is a full package and I want them to understand it very well. The rural health centres will also have three houses for staff. In the past, we saw the Government build clinics without houses. Where were the workers expected to stay?

Mr Speaker, in relation to agriculture, as we speak, all the districts have received fertiliser …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mbewe rose on a point of order.

Ms Kapata: This year, we are just waiting for the rain to start before people start receiving fertiliser. I was in Mulobezi and Petauke and there is fertiliser there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the President’s Speech indicated that the agriculture sector is key to national food security, mitigating high poverty levels and creating job opportunities. In order to realise this, this Government will enhance the use of science and technology in achieving a competitive, diversified and sustainable agriculture sector.

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, under local government and housing, the President pointed out that the country has been experiencing a huge housing deficit which has resulted in scarce and expensive accommodation for the people. The PF Government will explore various partnerships and investments to cushion the current national housing deficit. In addition, the Government will also recapitalise the Zambia National Building Society (ZNBS) in order to provide affordable finance to people for them to construct houses.

Mr Speaker, allow me to talk about the plight of our brothers and sisters in the rural areas of Zambia. The President indicated to this House that the Government will scale up interventions aimed at accelerating rural development in order to improve the people’s living standards. This will ensure that the rural areas are connected to electricity supply. To this effect, the Government is constructing mini-hydropower stations. Construction of a mini-hydropower station in Shiwang’andu has been completed. Construction of Chanda Falls Hydropower Station in Chavuma is expected to be completed soon. The PF Government will continue supporting the Rural Electrification Programme (REP) which is aimed at connecting rural communities such as chiefs’ palaces, schools and health centres to the national power grid.

Mr Speaker, in winding up my contribution to the Motion, I would like to request that we all put our efforts together to ensure that what the President pronounced comes to fruition.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to make a contribution to the debate on the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Speech, which was delivered on 20th September, 2013. Before I go into details, let me express my condolences to the family of the late Hon. Kennedy Sakeni. He was an asset not only to the PF, but also to the whole country as an hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting.

Mr Speaker, may I also welcome and congratulate the new hon. Members of Parliament that have joined this House. Let me start with Hon. Ingrid Mphande, Member of Parliament for Mkushi North Constituency, the only lady and only one who won on the PF ticket. Let me also welcome and congratulate the following who won on the alternative government tickets, Hon. Brian Chitafu, Member of Parliament for Kafulafuta Constituency, Hon. Villie Lombanya, Member of Parliament for Solwezi East, who has just given his maiden speech, Hon. Mtolo Phiri, Member of Parliament for Chipata Central and Hon. Peter Phiri, Member of Parliament for Mkaika, the famous 9/1. Let me also take this opportunity to specifically thank the people of Chipata Central and Mkaika for the job that they did.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I made an analysis of the President’s Speech.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am drawing my point of order from the Statutes. Under Cap 12 (16), I want to read what the statute says about giving false evidence which is as follows:

“Any person who, before the Assembly or any authorised committee, intentionally gives false answer to any question, material to the subject of inquiry which may be put to him during the course of any examination, shall be guilty of an offence against Section 104 of the Penal Code.”

Mr Speaker, a minute ago, Hon. Kapata was debating and she indicated that under her Government, fertiliser is in all the districts and that the Government is waiting for the rain to start before it can start distributing it.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let him make his point of order.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the evidence on the ground is that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock is not here. He is out trying to get the fertiliser to dock at Dar-es-Salaam. This fertiliser is in bulk and it will have to be repackaged and shipped to Zambia during this planting season.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, is she in order to give us false information that the fertiliser which this Government failed to import is already in the districts?

I seek your ruling, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I will request that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock or, in his absence, His Honour Vice-President, at an appropriate time, clarifies that point of order.

Can the hon. Member continue.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I now come to the analysis of the Speech. I will start with a few statistics. I had to go backwards to see the trend from the time the PF came to power in 2011. The first Speech of His Excellency the President, in 2011, had 6,423 words, comprising 166 paragraphs. Last year, in 2012, the Speech had 6,340 words and 159 paragraphs. This Speech has 5,579 words with 137 paragraphs. You can easily see that the trend is going down. I am not sure whether this is due to fatigue or otherwise.

Laughter

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, this year, the presentation of the Speech made a difference and this has to be acknowledged. Why did we have that difference? It is because of listening to what the alternative government says. It is not a sign of weakness to listen to the alternative government seated here (on the left). It is a sign of strength to listen to our criticisms and improve.

Mr Speaker, at some stage, the Speech appeared as if it was some liquid, maybe water with particles, moving in all sorts of directions with some of them colliding.

Mr Livune: Molecules!

Laughter

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, this is an analogy of a Speech which had themes. Some of these themes were not talking to each other. They were doing the opposite. In the olden days, when I was studying chemistry, we used to call such movements the Brownian Motion. This means particles that are moving anyhow. That is how some of these themes are.

Laughter

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITIES in the Chair]

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was talking about the political chemistry that was extracted from the Speech. In line with this, a certain number of particles were colliding and others were facing the opposite direction …

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: … and are being translated into themes. Let me look at one of the themes captured in the President’s Speech, and that is on science and technology.

Sir, it was sad that the Speech had no specific theme apart from mentioning science and technology as a tool. On page 13 of the Speech, His Excellency the President stated that:

“ … to this effect, the Government will enhance the use of science and technology in pursuit of its policy objective of achieving a competitive, diversified and sustainable agriculture sector.”

Mr Speaker, science and technology is a driver of …

Mr Simbao: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order because this is now becoming a norm in this House. Are the hon. Cabinet Ministers, the friends to the Chief Whip who is also a Cabinet Minister, being fair to him when they know that he is supposed to maintain discipline in this House, by being absent in the House? Out of twenty Cabinet Ministers – and Hon. Mutelo had to go and sit on their side so as to increase the number – there are only a few of them in the House.

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: I will reiterate the earlier ruling which is that Parliamentary business takes precedence over any other business. Since this has now become prevalent, I am referring the matter to the Chief Whip, as we know, we have a Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services. I leave it at that.

Hon. Opposite Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, as said earlier, science and technology, as a complete theme, is missing from the President’s Speech apart from just the reference to it as a tool to be used in agriculture productivity, which is not enough. We wanted to hear the Government’s direction in relation to science and technology so that economic development and growth could be supplemented and improved upon by the science and technology tools.

Sir, with science and technology, we are able to control some of the infectious diseases. We are also able to use science and technology to improve security and safety in our country. Therefore, I wish the President had actually devoted a specific theme to science and technology other than just referring to it as a tool.

Mr Speaker, on page 13, the President stated that …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Dr Kazonga: …

“A positive growth was registered in crops such as wheat, barley, soya beans and rice in the 2012/2013 agriculture season.”

Mr Speaker, I want to inform this Government that the statistics that came from the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock and were distributed to all of us, hon. Members of Parliament, were as follows. In terms of rice, production was at 45,321 metric tonnes. In 2013, which is this year, it indicated 44,747 metric tonnes. There was a reduction of 1.27 per cent. That is a reduction and it is not growth. If you look at the yield and what you get per hectare, you will realise that rice, in 2012, was at 1.44 metric tonnes per hectare. This year, it was at 1.16 metric tonnes per hectare. Is that growth? Maybe, it was in the eyes of the PF Government, but not in our eyes as the alternative government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: This is a typical shrinkage. There was no growth. So, it is unfortunate that the President was made to read such a statement.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, order!

The consultations are so loud that I cannot follow the contribution by the hon. Member of Parliament for Vubwi.

Dr Kazonga: Furthermore, on the issue of maize, which is our staple food, the President just indicated that there were regional variations and there were no figures that were given. He was shy to indicate that actually maize production went down to 2.5 million metric tonnes from last year’s 2.8 million metric tonnes.

Mr Nkombo: Yes.

Dr Kazonga: This cannot be compared with what we left as the MMD Government at 3 million metric tonnes which was a bumper harvest in two consecutive years. He was a bit shy to indicate that aspect.

Sir, in terms of production, I want to suggest to this Government that the cost of production has to be addressed if we are to meet productivity.

Mr Muntanga: Correct.

Dr Kazonga: The cost of production has to be minimised. Issues to do with inputs and the increase in the amount that our farmers are supposed to contribute automatically lead to an increase in the cost of production to our small-scale farmers. In addition to this, seeds, feeder roads and access to energy also contribute to the increase in the cost of production. If not addressed, the productivity will continue going down, This, I can rest assure you.

Mr Speaker, I want to thank the PF Government for acknowledging that the programmes under the MMD Government were correct. The MMD Government introduced farming block development in this country, starting with the Nansanga Farming Block.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: The PF Government has acknowledged that it was a good programme. It was our policy, as the MMD, at that time, for every province to have, at least, one farming block of 100,000 hectares.

Mr Speaker, let me also talk about the issue of crop diversification which was mentioned by the President. Indeed, this was also part of the programmes that we started. We used to support the farmers in growing maize and rice. In addition, we made sure that there was food security.

Mrs Kawandami: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, I thank you. I am shocked at the revelation by the hon. Member on the Floor that the MMD started the farming blocks.

Interruptions

Mrs Kawandami: In the UNIP Government, we had the Kanakantapa …

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Mrs Kawandami: … and Kambilombilo farming blocks. Is he in order to mislead the farming community in this country and the country at large by saying that the MMD started the farming blocks?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr ruling will be by way of guidance.

If you have been given an opportunity to raise a point of order, do so. The temptation that most of us fall into is to debate through points of order. Since you have debated your point of order sufficiently, the hon. Member for Vubwi may continue.

Laughter

Dr Kazonga: I thank you, Sir. I will proceed.

Mr Speaker, farming blocks are different from settlements.

Sir, I would now like to move onto the issue of water supply …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I want to emphasise that farming blocks are totally different from settlements.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, moving onto water supply and sanitation.

There are two important programmes that are being implemented and the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development acknowledged this a few days ago. The two are Rural Water Supply and Sanitation and Urban and Peri-urban Water Supply and Sanitation.

The President acknowledged, in his Speech, that from 2011 to 2013, the amount given to this sub-sector had increased from K90 million to K250 million. My observation is that this money is not adequate. For national rural water supply and sanitation, you need, at least, K260 million. Therefore, I want to urge this Government to look into this matter seriously because the poverty levels that are seen in rural areas are partly as a result of not having access to clean drinking water and sanitation facilities.

Mr Speaker, in terms of financing, I have the following suggestions for the PF Government:

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Very good.

Dr Kazonga: The Government owes commercial water utility companies huge amounts of money. My suggestion to this Government is that it should pay all that is due to these utility companies. By doing so, it will be helping them to improve the water supply infrastructure which is an issue in terms of water supply and sanitation.

Mr Speaker, the President indicated that the Governemnt had reviewed the Decentralisation Policy. The fact that it has simply been reviewed means that it was already in existence. My worry, however, is that, as stakeholders, we have not seen this revised Decentralisation Policy. We want to move together so that we can also assist the Government. We have not even been given the road map known as the Decentralisation Implementation Plan (DIP) which shows what needs to be done and at what stage. Where is it? This is still missing.

Mr Speaker, on the creation of districts, the President indicated that he had created thirty new districts, eighteen of which were operational. This gives an operationalisation rate of 60 per cent. Let us invest in infrastructure development in these newly-created districts. I will give an example of Vubwi. At the moment, there are no offices for the DC as well as officers in agriculture and health. A number of officers are commuting from Chipata and Chadiza. We, therefore, need infrastructure development. This House approved a budget that had a provision of ten houses. These ten houses are nowhere to be seen.

Mr Mbewe: Kabanshi!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, the purpose of decentralisation …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

While we allow consultations, they must not be loud. Consultations which are frowned upon time and again are those made across the divide. What sort of consultations are those?

I hope that this can come to an end because it only breeds disorder. This is a House that should follow the rules, traditions and decorum that we have set for ourselves. Therefore, let there be no cross-divide consultations.

You may proceed. {mospagebreak}

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I was talking about the creation of new districts and giving my suggestions to this Government.

In his Speech, the President referred to the amendment of the Rating Act in order to strengthen the revenue base of the local authorities. Surely, how can the President be made to read such a statement? There is nothing practical in that pronouncement. You mean, by amending the Rating Act, you will be strengthening the revenue base of councils in Vubwi, Lunga and Mitete? That is not adequate.

Mr Speaker, I would like to move onto the matter of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Mr Mbewe: Ndiyo nkhani, iyo!

Dr Kazonga: I am seeing a reverse in the implementation of the Decentralisation Policy. How can projects identified in Lunga, Vubwi or Chipili be approved by the Central Government in Lusaka? Sir, the CDF targets micro-projects at community level. Elected leaders, councillors and Members of Parliament are there to represent the people. How can approval be made in Lusaka? We are reversing the concept of decentralisation. The councillors and Member of Parliament in Lunga are best placed to know where each project is. I want to urge the PF Government to revisit this administrative guidance that was given to all the constituencies.

Mr Speaker, as I wind up my debate, I want to indicate that the PF Government would do justice to local government by looking at the whole concept of local government financing and take it in totality and not piecemeal to find out what needs to be done. Remember the particles in the political chemistry I referred to earlier?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: The source of these problems is basically the absence of an ideology. If we ask the PF Government what ideology they are following, I do not think they will tell us.

They are like random particles in the political chemistry.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: Ideology is important because it guides a country. Having a properly clarified ideology will ensure delivery of social services. You can have a housing policy and water supply and sanitation, based on your ideology. The ideology for the PF seems to be missing. This is why we have these issues. Particles are …

Mr Nkombo: Missing.

Dr Kazonga: … just randomly clashing.

Mr Speaker, I want to end my debate by encouraging hon. Members of Parliament to read a very famous book entitled the Animal Farm, authored by George Orwell.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: In this book, there were seven commandments. I read this book, at least, once a year. I never get fed up because it is an extremely important book.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kazonga: It will show you what political chemistry is taking place. It is a very useful book.

Mr Speaker, on this note, I thank you.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to the many voices that have spoken. I will try to be brief because I can see that hon. Members are desperate to go.

Laughter

Mr Antonio: However, I have been given twenty minutes in which to speak.

The Deputy Chairperson: Feel free to debate. You have twenty minutes and it is up to you to decide how to utilise them.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, to start with, I would like to express my condolences to the family of the late colleague, Hon. Kennedy Sakeni, the brain tank of the PF.

I would also like to congratulate the new hon. Members of Parliament, the lady and the four giants on the Opposition side.

Mr Sianga: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, I would like to refer to page 2 of the Speech where the President said:

“... it marks almost two years of hard work by the Patriotic Front in Government.”

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Some consultations through laughter are contagious.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: May you, please, proceed.

Mr Antonio: I wondered whether this sentence was meant to end at, ‘Government’ or there was another part missing that should have read, “northern part of Zambia or Muchinga in particular.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Honestly speaking, the two years that the PF Government is talking about have not produced any positive results in the Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Earlier, one speaker counted the number of developmental projects in the northern part of Zambia. Unfortunately, there was nothing that was counted in the Western Province apart from the Mongu/Kalabo Road …

Mr Lufuma: This was left by the MMD!

Mr Antonio: … that was left by the MMD.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: So, we would like to hear more from the PF. It looks like the PF Government has turned the northern part of Zambia into Zambia itself.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: The northern part of Zambia is not Zambia, but the whole country is what constitutes Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: So, this development the PF Government is talking about must be distributed equally to all parts of this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, I would also like to mention that it is not fair for the President to have been on record as having said that he will not put food on a plate of another child’s son because all the people who are living within the boundaries of Zambia have one father who happens to be the President of this country. So, the President must not segregate his children. Whether a particular constituency is held by a Member from the Opposition or not, the President must see to it that development reaches every corner of this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Sir, I also want to look at the area where the President said the PF has come to restore dignity to this country. I tend to wonder where the dignity that the PF has restored to this country is when people are beaten up in a church? Is that dignity?

Laughter

Mr Antonio: When you are parading chiefs at political rallies, is that dignity?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Antonio: When people are stripped naked, is that dignity?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, I would have loved to hear the President talk about dignity and exercise it so that the people of Zambia do not just hear the word dignity, but also see the actual results on the ground.

Mr Lufuma: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Sir, I also heard the President talk about unity among the people. I do not know which unity he was talking about.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: If we look at a simple example like the CDF, Members of Parliament from the Opposition have not received the 2013 CDF. The only people who have received it are those that are from the Ruling Party. Where is the unity?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Is that what you call unity?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: Hanjika!

Mr Antonio: Just a day ago, Sir, there was an issue where the …

Mrs Kabanshi: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very important point of order. I have never stood up to raise a point of order, but I have been forced to because this is now too much. The people on your left are always telling lies …

Hon. Opposition Members: That is unparliamentary.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mrs Kabanshi: They are not telling the truth.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The word ‘lies’ is unparliamentary. May you withdraw that word.

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word.

Is the hon. Member debating on your left in order to mislead the citizens of Zambia by telling them that I have been distributing the CDF unfairly …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mrs Kabanshi: … when most of the people on your right have also not received the CDF?

Hon. Opposition Members: Why?

Mrs Kabanshi: I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling, hon. Minister, is that you can pick up that issue when you are given an opportunity to respond.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was talking about unity. All the chiefs that live within the boundaries of Zambia are our chiefs, and any Zambian is free to visit any palace in this country.

Mr Sianga: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Where is the unity in Zambia when a team from the UPND that was visiting a chief …

Interruptions

Mr Mucheleka: Kuti mwaisa abali ten teti munkwanishe.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi!

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Bashi Lubemba!

The Deputy Chairperson: You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Antonio: … and one person organised cadres to stop the entourage. Unfortunately, he was a very bad commander because he was not present at the scene when this took place. I wish he was there so that he could have seen how difficult it is to lead people into fights.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, that was shameful. As Zambians, we are free to visit any chief.

Mr Nkombo: Those random partners.

Laughter

Mr Sianga: Hear, hear! Very free.

Mr Antonio: Sir, I would now like to talk about education. The standard of education has gone down in our country. Teachers have been demoralised because most of the schools lack infrastructure and teaching materials. If you go to a rural school, especially in Kaoma, you will discover that some schools do not have simple teaching materials such as chalk.

Mr Livune: Even boards!

Mr Antonio: So, how do we educate the nation when infrastructure and learning materials are not in place?

Sir, at some of our schools, classrooms have been turned into houses for teachers, …

Mr Mufalali: Especially Senanga!

Mr Antonio: … hence disadvantaging the pupils that are supposed to use those classrooms to learn.

Mr Speaker, in my constituency, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education has gone into an agreement with the local churches, where classes are now conducted. This is not good.

Therefore, it is my humble appeal to the PF Government, in its wisdom, to look at this problem.

Mr Mufalali: They have no wisdom.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, I would also like to talk about health. Health in our country is still in disarray. When the MMD was in Government, we used to tease them that whatever illness that one suffered from, the only medicine they would receive was panadol. However, today, even the panadol is not available.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Antonio: When you go the hospitals, you are not going to be attended to not because the medical staff are rude, but because they have been demoralised.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: When nurses, doctors and clinical officers go for work, they have no equipment to use. As normal human beings, they also get frustrated.

So, the PF Government must see to it that hospitals are well equipped for them to provide quality health services to the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, …

Prof Luo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point order is raised.

Prof Luo: Mr Speaker, as you know, I rarely rise on points of order …

The Deputy Chairperson: Your point of order is granted although you rarely rise on points of order.

Prof Luo: Mr Speaker, thank you.

You know that we are supposed to be factual in our debate. Some of us work in the hospital. Is the hon. Member of Parliament who is debating so badly in order to mislead the nation by saying that there are no drugs in hospitals?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that when we debate on the Floor of this House, we should present facts that are within our peculiar knowledge, hence the need for the Government to react decisively at an appropriate time. The reaction, through a point of order, will not settle the matters properly. So, the ruling is that the hon. Member is in order and the Government will respond at an appropriate time.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sianga: Long live the Chair!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, quality health care is still a distant dream for the majority in this country.

Mr Sianga: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, let me briefly look at agriculture. It seems when we have a leader who is not a farmer, then agriculture is destroyed. The First Republican President, Dr Kenneth Kaunda, was a farmer and agriculture in this country flourished. He owned Shambalakale Farm.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, when we had late President Chiluba, who was not a farmer, agriculture in this country went down. The next President was Mr Mwanawasa, SC., who was a farmer, and agriculture flourished. When we had Mr Rupiah Banda, who was a farmer, agriculture flourished, but now that we have His Excellency President Michael Chilufya Sata, who is not a farmer, …

Mr Sianga: He is a policeman.

Laughter

Mr Antonio: … agriculture is going down. The fertiliser for Kaoma Central has been delivered 50 km from where it is supposed to be collected. So, I just wonder how farmers are going to get this fertiliser, bearing in mind the cost that will be involved in covering this distance. What this means is that the PF Government has completely failed to manage agriculture in our country. When they introduced new prices for fertiliser, whose price is not yet known to date, they should have also allowed the farmers to increase the price of maize. This would have enabled farmers to have enough money to pay for the fertiliser whose price has been hiked. However, what has happened is that the price of fertiliser has been hiked while that for maize has remained static. This is not fair.

Mr Sianga: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, as if that is not enough, farmers were told that they would be paid their money ten days after supplying the maize. It is now two months since the farmers, especially in Kaoma and Kazungula, supplied maize, but they have still not been paid. That is inflicting poverty on the people of Zambia. So, we want the PF Government to change.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, the Government has made assurances that the people of Zambia are going to be employed. I have read in today’s The Post newspaper that the Government has employed fifty-three people in one of the new districts in my constituency, Nkeyema. I wonder where these people will be operating from. Maybe, they will be operating under a tree, and yet ...

Mr Sianga: With the rain coming.

Mr Antonio: … the rains are coming. This is because at the Tobacco Board of Zambia (TBZ), there is no infrastructure where these fifty-three people who have been employed can operate from. I am not even sure whether they have been truly employed or it is just on paper. I say so because the PF has become very popular at misleading the people of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Sir, the PF has chosen to shut its ears to the cries of the people of Zambia. It does not seem to realise that the people of Zambia are very clever and are watching our steps day in and day out. Their time to react will come. 2016 is near.

Mr Sianga: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, as regards development in Kaoma, one of the hon. Deputy Ministers said if one wants to go to the North-Western Province, they can go there through Kaoma.

Sir, there is no road that the PF has built in Kaoma. The road that is being talked about here was constructed in the Colonial time. The MMD only re-gravelled the road. Since then, nothing has happened to that road. So, it is not fair for the PF to say that we can go to the North-Western province through Kaoma. There is no road that the PF has constructed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, there is a very popular saying which goes, “you can fool some people sometimes, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”

With these few remarks, I thank you.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications, Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Sir, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

______

The House adjourned at 1907 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 4th October, 2013.

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