Thursday, 1st December, 2016

Thursday, 1^st December, 2016

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

__________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

COMMEMORATION OF THE 2016 WORLD AIDS DAY

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform you that the 2016 World AIDS Day is being commemorated today, Thursday, 1^st December, 2016. The day is dedicated to raising awareness of the AIDS pandemic worldwide. The theme for this year is “Hands Up for HIV Prevention”.

In commemorating this important day, the National Assembly of Zambia has lined up the following activities:

HIV/AIDS awareness workshop for hon. Members of Parliament and staff on Tuesday, 6^th December, 2016, in the Amphitheatre here, at Parliament Buildings. The workshop will start at 0900 hours; and

the National Assembly Clinic will provide voluntary counselling and testing (VCT) services to hon. Members of Parliament, staff and their family members throughout the month of December, 2016.

I encourage all of you to find time to attend the workshop and access the VCT services being offered by our clinic at their convenient time as we lead the way in the fight against HIV/AIDS.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Throughout the programme, our very own world-renowned HIV/AIDS activist, Ms Princess Kasune, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … hon. Member of Parliament for Keembe Constituency, will be available to those who may wish to know more about how to live positively with HIV/AIDS.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Participation in both activities is voluntary.

Thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

THE TAKING OVER OF INTERMARKET BANKING CORPORATION BY THE BANK OF ZAMBIA

The Minister of Finance (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for according me the opportunity to address this august House on the taking over of Intermarket Banking Corporation Zambia Limited by the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) on 28^th November, 2016. The takeover was pursuant to Section 81 of the Banking and Financial Services Act Cap 387 of the Laws of Zambia, which empowers BoZ to take possession of a financial services provider under certain circumstances, such as:

when a financial service provider conducts its business in breach of any written law or engages in conduct that is unsafe and unsound;

if for any reason, the financial service provider is unable or likely to become unable to continue its operations in the ordinary cause of its business;

the financial service provider’s capital is less than the prescribed amount; and

the financial service provider is insolvent.

Sir, the Bank of Zambia is also mandated by Section 4 of the Bank of Zambia Act to ensure price and financial system stability. Apart from the domestic mandates, the Bank of Zambia is also mandated by international laws to enforce international prudential requirements, such as adherence to the Basel Accord. As hon. Members are aware, financial transactions occur across borders and instability in one region can affect the entire international monetary and financial system.

Mr Speaker, in ensuring that the financial sector adheres to the legal and credential requirements, the Bank of Zambia routinely inspects financial institutions and when a financial institution is found to have challenges meeting any of the requirements, the normal course of action is for the Bank of Zambia to work closely with that institution so as to resolve the problem. The complete takeover of the financial service provider, which is provided for in the Banking and Financial Services Act, is the last option. The Bank of Zambia took the last option in the case of Intermarket Banking Corporation Zambia Limited after undertaking due diligence and determining that the bank is insolvent.

Mr Speaker, the taking over of the institution is unfortunate, especially given the relative stability that the financial system has exhibited since the mid-1990s and the decision not made lightly, as the Banking and Financial Services Act has stringent requirements that must be met before such a step can be taken.

Sir, the Government wishes to inform the general public, the banking community and all interested parties that the banking sector remains stable and that the Bank of Zambia will remain committed to fulfilling its mandate of maintaining stability in the financial sector.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, you are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, Intermarket Banking Corporation Zambia Limited is not the first bank to become insolvent and be taken over by the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) in this country. Further, there are rumours of other banks whose names I cannot mention that became insolvent in the recent past, but BoZ opted to take recapitalise them. Does the Hon. Minister think that closing this bank without first exploring other options was the best possible route? I think we all know that there are many investors interested in this sector who would have recapitalised the bank. This decision has left many Zambians in misery.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has said that his question is based on rumours. Unfortunately, we cannot comment on rumours. All I can say is that BoZ has not recapitalised any bank. Secondly, the action by BoZ was taken after a continuous period of engagement with the shareholders intended to facilitate their meeting of the several conditions on which they bought the bank. The conditions, which included placement of up to US$35 million, were supposed to be met within three months. The first US$5 million was placed but, thereafter, no additional amount has been put into the bank and that grossly endangered the liquidity position of the bank and its depositors.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, Zambians banks have been closed in the past due to a lack of funds and account holders lost a lot of money and many assets. An example is that of Prudence Bank. Can the hon. Minister assure the House that the money that account holders deposited in the bank is safe.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the reason BoZ took possession of the bank is precisely to prevent a difficult situation from getting worse. The bank has very serious liquidity difficulties. Currently, the Central Bank is assessment the situation and will determine the next course of action after the assessment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chiteme (Nkana): Mr Speaker, what will the Ministry of Finance do about the hundreds of poor people who have been told by the bank to wait up to three months to access their money?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the law on this matter is clear. The Central Bank has taken possession of the bank and it has three months in which to recommend or take appropriate action, including engaging the shareholders on the possibility of injecting capital into the bank.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned two problems faced by the bank. Firstly, he has talked about the inability of the bank to meet its obligations as they fall due and, secondly, he has talked about undercapitalisation, specifically because only US$5 million of the US$35 million required was provided by the shareholders. Which of the two has been the most important factor in the closure of the bank? I ask this question because it is possible that a capital requirement that is too stringent might unnecessarily bring a bank down?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the two factors had the same weight in the decision by BoZ to take over the bank.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, this is not the first time that the Central Bank has taken over the operations of a commercial bank. We experienced this situation with Meridian BIAO Bank Zambia Limited and another bank that was mentioned earlier by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chitambo. My concern is about the poor Zambians who were the depositors in this bank. Till now, we do not know what to do, as Zambians. Do we not have a means in this country of by which the Central Bank can sensitise depositors or the general citizenry on the dangerous situations that their banks may be? This takeover was done very abruptly.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the banking sector in this country is stable. All the banks in this country are required to periodically publish their financial statements in all newspapers for hon. Members of Parliament and the public to analyse, get informed and make informed decisions. So, yes, there is a mechanism for informing the public.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister able to tell the House the liability and asset totals, and the deposits in the bank at the time of its takeover?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I have indicated that BoZ is carrying out an in-depth assessment of the liabilities, assets and deposits of the repossessed bank and will write a report on those aspects. Suffice it for me to say that when a company is insolvent, its assets are less than its liabilities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) has a monitoring system for commercial banks and I believe that before it the takeover, it had indicators showing that something was wrong with the other bank. Is there a possibility that depositors may lose their money? Can the hon. Minister assure the House that the takeover will safeguard the depositors’ monies.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, BoZ has been monitoring the bank from the end of June, 2016, when the new investor was given approval to buy it, including monthly follow-ups on the investor’s commitment to inject US$35 million in the bank. The investor kept explaining his failure to honour the commitments and promising to do so on another date until BoZ could no longer allow the bank to continue operating on the basis of promises while the bank’s liquidity position worsened. So, the only option that remained was the takeover.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Mr Speaker, this morning, there was apprehension in town, with some of my colleagues saying that they wanted to move their monies from the small banks to the bigger ones because they thought that all the small banks had problems with capital. Can the hon. Minister assure the nation that the small banks are stable and that we can leave our money there, or should we transfer it tomorrow?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, all the banks, including the small ones, are sound and stable. So, Zambians should continue keeping their money in them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister’s statement. At least, it will calm the banking sector and the general populace down. That said, what will happen to the employees of the bank after the repossession? The hon. Minister did not touch that aspect.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, BoZ has assured the Government that it will do its work with probity and safeguard the interests of both the employees and the depositors.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the Central Bank had been in a continuous liaison with Intermarket Banking Corporation Zambia Limited regarding the liquidity level of the latter before the foreclosure. Is it possible that this unfortunate development can cause serious ramifications in the money market; that people can revert to the old practice of keeping their money in ceiling boards and mattresses, which can distort the money market and leading to interest rates going up, among other consequences?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Member has said, this incident is unfortunate.

Sir, to clarify the position of the repossessed bank in proportion to the whole banking system, let me state that the bank’s total assets and deposits were only 0.2 and 0.5 per cent per. As you can see, both two key perimeters are below 1 per cent. Further, the bank had only six branches, of which it had already closed one and was about to close four more. So, it literally has no impact on the overall financial sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chibanda (Mufulira) Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister able to tell the House the number of depositors, both corporate and individuals, who have been affected by the closure of the bank?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, that information will be made available after the exercise being conducted by the Central Bank has been completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr A. C. Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, how often will the hon. Minister encourage the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) to carry out stress tests on banks so that we can continue to have a viable financial system capable of supporting his economic recovery plan?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, when BoZ undertakes its routine monthly inspection of banks, one of the exercises it does is to determine their liquidity vis-à-vis their liabilities. It also tests for distribution of portfolio of the affected bank. So, BoZ does conduct stress tests.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chabi (Chipili): Mr Speaker, is the depositors’ money safe following the repossession of Intermarket Banking Corporation by the Bank of Zambia? Is the depositors’ money safe? I think that is what is worrying everybody. Is it safe?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I was beginning to get concerned with your repetitions.

Laughter

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the repossession of the bank indicates that the Bank of Zambia is interested in minimising the loss that the depositors may incur. Had the Central Bank not taken that action, the loss would have been greater.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, we need to appreciate the situation in which we are as we ask questions. There is a problem and you need to bear that in mind as you ask your questions.

Mr Mukosa (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, what measures is the Ministry of Finance, through the Bank of Zambia, taking to enhance risk management practices and good corporate governance in financial institutions to prevent other banks from collapsing and making people lose money in the future?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I indicated that the Banking and Financial Services Act mandates the Bank of Zambia to ensure the stability of both prices and the financial sector. The bank executes the mandate, among other means, through routine checks to ensure that banks are sound. The decision to repossess Intermarket Banking Corporation was a result of one of such routine checks, which indicated that that the bank was in a significantly weak liquidity position.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance mentioned that Intermarket Banking Corporation had failed to comply with banking regulations since June, 2016, when the new investor took over. Why did the Bank of Zambia allow the former to operate for that long without meeting its banking requirements from June, thereby leaving the depositors in a quagmire?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the shareholders of the bank had informed the Bank of Zambia that they had found someone who was prepared to invest in the bank to enable it to normalise its situation. That agreement was between the old and the new shareholders and presented to the Central Bank for approval, and the Central Bank approved the proposal with some conditions, one of which was that the new shareholder injects US$35 million into the bank. Unfortunately, that condition was not fully met.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

Mr Musonda (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, are there any deliberate measures that the Ministry of Finance and the Bank of Zambia are putting in place to cushion the depositors through the ninety-days grace period, especially given the fact that most of them are small-scale business people who had opened the accounts under the Tomato Account that the bank had introduced?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the Government will wait to be informed by the report of the Bank of Zambia on the appropriate action to take.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr A. B. Malama (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister should tell the nation precisely when the depositors will be given their money. The question that begs an answer is whether the ministry and the Bank of Zambia will give the depositors their money. That is what the nation wants to know.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the precise answer is that the first step in determining the appropriate course of action is the assessment of the situation. Thereafter a report will be submitted to us that will guide our decision on the matter. As I stand here, I do not have enough premises on which I can make a decision about what to do with the depositors and the employees.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kundoti (Luena): Mr Speaker, how many workers have lost their jobs and how much, in terms of taxes, has the Government lost due to the closure of the bank?

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, you are forcing the hon. Minister to repeat himself. What he said is that a decision to repossess the bank has been made and that an assessment of the situation is being made. A report will, thereafter, be produced, which will help him to make appropriate decisions on behalf of the Government. Right now, information is still being gathered. So, he does not have sufficient quantities of it. That said, he has assured the House and the nation that the financial system is stable in spite of the situation of the bank in question.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I could not have put it any better than you have.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, from the time the Bank of Zambia repossessed Intermarket Banking Corporation Limited, there have been panic withdraws on almost all the automated teller machines (ATMs) across the country, leading to a situation whereby most of the ATMs were not working from last night to this morning. We are now informed that there are short message service (SMS) messages circulating from banks like First National Bank (FNB), Finance Bank, Investrust Bank, Barclays Bank and Echo Bank, saying that they have switched off their machines as they monitor the situation. However, my question is: Is it true that Investrust Bank is also about to go the same way as Intermarket Banking Corporation Limited?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, it is not true that there is any other bank that is about to fail.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. M. Zulu (Luangeni): Mr Speaker, who are the owners of the bank in question? Are they Zambians or foreigners? If they are foreigners, from which country are they?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, at the expense of repeating myself, let me say that I will await the report from the Central Bank. When I get it, I will come back to Parliament to issue a more detailed statement on what the Government will decide to do.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Who are the owners!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, are you able to name the owners?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the shareholder of the bank is a Georgian national.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Malanji (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, is there a provision for the Central Bank to unveil the corporate jacket and pursue the directors of the bank in their individual capacities?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the applicable Act has very specific provisions on director or shareholders of banks. They are tested for soundness and capability. So, when the report comes out, actions will be taken in accordance with the provisions of the law.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, what will happen to those who are participating on the stock exchange under the brokerage of the repossessed bank?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, there will be no transaction made through or with the bank while the Central Bank is assessing the way forward. After the assessment and submission of a report by the Central Bank, appropriate actions will be taken.

Sir, let me re-emphasise the fact that Investrust Bank Plc is in a solid liquidity and capital position.

I thank you, Sir.

________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ARMED ROBBERIES IN LIUWA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

38. Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

whether the Government was aware that a villager was killed in Libonda Ward on 24^th November, 2016, by armed robbers who have, in the last three weeks, invaded Liuwa parliamentary Constituency, attacking villagers and robbing them of their cattle; and

if so, what measures were being taken to avert further loss of life and property in the constituency, and the rest of the Western Province.

The Minister of Defence (Mr Chama) (on behalf of The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo)): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the unfortunate fatal shooting of a villager by the name of Buteke Mushimbei, aged between thirty and thirty-five years, by armed robbers in Libonda Ward, Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency, on 24^th November, 2016, around 2000 hours.

Sir, the Government, through the Zambia Police Force and other security wings have instituted the following measures to prevent the occurrence of similar incidents:

enhanced security measures to protect the people, their animals and property;

intensified patrols within the constituency and on the border areas; and

sensitisation of the community on security vigilance and the need for the locals to report any suspicious activities in the area.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I have heard the hon. Minister’s proposed solutions. However, currently, the area has only one small police station with one police officer, ...

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: ... and that giving would-be perpetrators of crime that they are free to terrorise the area with little risk of being caught. What is the Government doing to increase the number of police stations and police officers in the constituency?

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, a needs assessment should be undertaken by the Government with the help of the area hon. Member of Parliament. He should tell us the number of police stations and officers needed in that area. As we are all aware, the Government has been constructing many police stations countrywide and police sending police officers to man them. Funds permitting, more officers will be deployed to his constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, why is this Government grabbing licensed firearms from villagers, thereby making them defenceless to armed robbers?

Laughter

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, the Government has issued an amnesty and requested members of the public to surrender firearms in their possession. To date, 301 illegal firearms have been surrendered to the Government. Other than that, I am not aware of the matter that the hon. Member of Parliament has raised.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, I have not heard his response concerning the rest of the Western Province. The hon. Minister’s answer has been specific to Liuwa Constituency. What are the measures for the rest of the Western Province, especially border areas like Washishi?

Mr Speaker: These questions are specific. So, hon. Member, if there are issues in your constituency, ask a question about them.

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, the question was, indeed, specific. However, I have stated that the Government has enhanced patrols in the border areas of the entire Western Province to arrest criminal activities by people crossing over from other countries and those from within the province.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mubika (Shangombo): Mr Speaker, most of the firearms that were grabbed from the people in Shangombo, Sioma and Sikongo were those that had been legally acquired. Will the Government consider giving them back to the owners so that they are able to protect their animals from rustlers?

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, the Government is not aware of legally acquired firearms that have been grabbed from their owners. The guns we have were voluntarily surrendered in response to the amnesty that the Government issued to the people of the Western Province.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Member: No!

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

You cannot just interject like that.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: We do not transact business that way.

Laughter

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that a number of constituencies in the Western Province have made efforts to construct police posts using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) because they have not benefited from the infrastructure development programme in the police service and that, unfortunately, the police posts have not been staffed? If he is aware, what measures does he hope to take to ensure that such police posts are staffed? A case in point is Nalikwanda Constituency.

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, what the hon. Member has stated happens when a police post is constructed without consultation with or notification of the Government. There is a procedure that an hon. Member of Parliament who has initiated the construction of a police post must follow in requesting the ministry to send its personnel to that police station or post constructed under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Mr Speaker, recently, there was a pass out parade at which the hon. Minister of Home Affairs officiated and many officers and similar pass outs are taking place throughout the country, and these officers will be posted to police posts that have been constructed using the CDF.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: I will take the last two or three questions.

Mr Livune: What about me?

Mr Speaker: I have already recognised you. So, I do not know why you are anxious.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Katombola will be followed by Namwala and Sesheke, and we will close with Mumbwa.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, today marks the seventh day since the demise of the villager in Libonda Ward. Further, the hon. Minister has informed the nation and this House that the police have intensified patrols in the area. Have any arrests been made so far?

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, the investigations have been intensified, but I can confirm that no arrests have been made so far.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa consulted the Government before constructing a police station in Luola, Liuwa Constituency. However, a year has since elapsed without the police station being staffed. In view of the hon. Minister’s response to the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalikwanda, why has that police post not been staffed?

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, as I indicated, there was a pass-out of police men and women just about a week ago and the Ministry of Home Affairs will post them to various areas. If Luola Police Post is one of those under consideration, it will be allocated officers.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kufakwandi (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, bearing in mind that cattle are an important asset for the people of the Western Province, is it not now necessary that a specialised anti-cattle rustling unit be set up in the police force to curtail the increase in cases of cattle wrestling, especially in border areas?

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, it is known that there are places where people keep animals and I can confirm that what the hon. Member of Parliament has proposed is actually already in effect. There are people who are trained to specifically protect the animals of our people, especially cattle, which are a very important asset.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, the issue of cattle ‘wrestling’ is rampant in the Western Province and other neighbouring provinces. Further, I have noticed that cases of cattle ‘wrestling’ take long to be prosecuted in the courts of law. Are the ministries of Home Affairs and Justice taking any measures to curb remedy the situation?

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, there is no such thing as ‘cattle wrestling’.

Laughter

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, the ministries of Home Affairs and Justice usually prosecute such cases. The challenge, in many instances, is that people reach settlements within families and withdraw the cases from the courts of law. However, the ministry is working hard to ensure that cattle thieves are prosecuted.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

REVAMPING OF KATIKULULA RESETTLEMENT SCHEME

39. Mr Mutale (Chitambo) asked the Vice-President:

(a) whether the Government had any plans to revamp the Katikulula Resettlement Scheme in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency;

(b) if so, what the specific plans were;

(c) when the plans would be implemented; and

(d) if there were no such plans, why.

The Minister in the Office of the Vice-President (Mrs Chalikosa): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to develop all resettlement schemes in the country, including Katikulula in Chitambo Constituency. The plans are contained in a document called Resettlement Schemes Profile published and printed by Government Printers in 2014.

Mr Speaker, some of the plans on the development of Katikulula Resettlement Scheme that the document specifies are as follows:

demarcation and allocation of 1,155 farms;

development of three service centres;

construction of three schools, that is, one school at each service centre;

construction of three health posts, which is one health post at each centre;

opening up of 219 km of internal road network;

drilling and equipping of forty-five boreholes;

construction of three agricultural storage sheds, that is, one at each service centre;

construction of three police posts, that is, one at each services centre; and

construction of four culverts.

Mr Speaker, the development of Katikulula Resettlement Scheme is an ongoing activity that started in 1989. Services will continue to be delivered to the settlers as resources become available until all planned activities are implemented. So far, the following have been done:

construction of the Scheme Manager’s staff house within the resettlement scheme. The Scheme Manager has since been posted to the scheme;

construction of one school in the scheme;

construction of one health post in the scheme;

demarcation and allocation of 1,384 planned farm plots in the resettlement scheme;

recommendation of settlers for issuance of title deeds of which 375 have received offer letters from the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources;

a private contractor is currently conducting cadastral surveys through the National Land Titling Programme to facilitate the issuance of title deeds to settlers;

clearing of more than 30 km of access roads; and

drilling of sixteen boreholes equipped with hand pumps.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, why did the Government decided to allocate land to the settlers in the resettlement scheme before providing the social amenities whose absence is a source of worry?

Mrs Chalikosa: Mr Speaker, the Government has realised that the importance of providing social amenities in the resettlement areas. That is why it published a document outlining what the ideal situation would be. Therefore, such issues are being addressed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Mr Speaker, Katikulula is one of the resettlement areas which were allocated land surveyors, as the hon. Minister has rightly said. However, I have been told that the surveyors have since stopped working because they have been told that there is no money to pay them, yet they had been initially told that money had been specifically set aside for the land audit. What does the hon. Minister have to say about this state of affairs?

Mrs Chalikosa: Mr Speaker that issue is being dealt with by the Ministry of Finance. When funds are available, the surveyors will be paid.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, in terms of services and amenities provided to the resettlement scheme, how would she rate her Government’s achievement in percentage terms?

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I must admit that the resettlement schemes have not received the best attention they could have got over the years. As was said, some of them date back to 1989, but the social amenities in them are still very negligible. That is why my office has decided to approach the matter with a new focus. The resettlement areas should also be considered as centres for agricultural productivity so in that what will be happening in the farming blocks also happen in the former. The people who live in the resettlement areas have land that should be made productive. To do that, the famers should be supported by the Government and, perhaps, the private sector. The resettlement areas should be transformed from what they are today.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

BILL

THE COMPENSATION FUND (No. 2) BILL, 2016

REPORT STAGE

Clause 4 – (Compensation Fund Committee)

The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move an amendment to Clause 4, on page 7, in line 26, by the insertion after the words “Institute of” of the word ‘Internal’.

Question put and agreed to. Clause 4 amended accordingly.

Clause 4, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 19 – (Power of Committee in respect of claims)

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Clause 19, on page 13, in lines 1 to 4, be amended by the deletion of Sub-Clause (3) and the substitution therefor of the following:

“(3) The Committee shall not facilitate a payment where it finds that the claim or part of the claim does not comply with the terms of the judgment and shall notify the Attorney-General stating the grounds for the finding.”

Question put and agreed to. Clause 19 amended accordingly.

Clause 19, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Report adopted.

Third Reading on Friday, 2^nd December, 2016.

_____________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE SECOND CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

ESTIMATES OF REVENUE AND EXPENDITURE (INCLUDING CAPITAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL AND STATUTORY EXPENDITURE) FOR THE YEAR 1^ST JANUARY TO 31^ST DECEMBER, 2017

VOTE 01 – (Office of the President – State House – K56,050,386).

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to present the 2017 Estimates of Recurrent and Capital Expenditure for Head 01/01 – Office of the President – State House.

Sir, State House is a key Government institution and the seat of the Presidency of the Republic of Zambia. As the apex institution in the Government, State House plays a critical over-arching and supervisory role in providing national guidance and overall policy direction to our country. Given this mandate, the policy objective and role of State House has been summarised in its mission statement, which is: “To deliver inspirational and visionary leadership to the nation and promote inclusive governance in order to achieve a better life for all Zambians”. In support of the mission statement, and to give State House specific focus and direction for its operations, the institution’s goal is: “To achieve effective and efficient advisory and support services for enhanced execution of executive functions by His Excellency the President”.

Overview of 2016 Operations

Sir, the institution encountered various operational challenges during the course of the year. However, it has remained focused on achieving its objectives and, thus far, significant progress has been made towards the successful implementation of its planned programmes and activities.

2017 Budget Estimates

Mr Chairperson, State House’s functions are executed through two key departments, namely Presidential Affairs, and Human Resource and Administration. The budget estimates before the House will enable State House to undertake its planned programmes and activities in 2017. Therefore, I appeal to the hon. Members to support the Budget Estimates for State House as presented.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the budget for State House.

Sir, I agree with Her Honour the Vice-President that State House is the apex institution in this country, as it superintends over the affairs of this country and anchors the Executive. It also gives direction to all the hon. Ministers in executing their functions and roles in the governance of this country.

Mr Chairperson, I will anchor my debate on the role of State House on Articles 8 and 122 of the Constitution of Zambia. For ease of reference, Article 8 identifies the following among the national values and principles:

morality and ethics;

democracy and constitutionalism;

human dignity, equity, social justice, equality and non-discrimination; and

good governance and integrity.

Sir, as I indicated, we, the hon. Members on your left of this House we would like to express our disquiet over the implementation of policies by State House and the management of the affairs of the country. Allow me to single out the interference of one arm of the Government in the operations of another, which conflicts with the principle of the separation of powers enshrined in the Constitution of Zambia, as one issue that particularly concerns me as an individual, a Member of Parliament for Monze Central and a Zambian.

Mr Chairperson, last weekend, we witnessed a very unfortunate incident in which one State House official appeared on television and cast aspersions on the Judiciary and, in particular, the Judges, over the handling of election petitions in this country.

Hon. UPND Members: Shame!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, let me quote the provisions of the Constitution of Zambia in relation to the independence of the Judiciary.

Article 122(1)(2)(3) states that:

“In the exercise of the judicial authority, the Judiciary shall be subject only to this Constitution and the law and not be subject to the control or direction of a person or an authority. A person and a person holding a public office shall not interfere with the performance of a judicial function by a judge or judicial officer. The Judiciary shall not, in the performance of its administrative functions and management of its financial affairs, be subject to the control or direction of a person or any authority.”

Mr Chairperson, as I had indicated, under Article 8, the issue I am raising hinges on good governance. The statement made on the public broadcaster, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), is ultra vires Article 122 of the Constitution of Zambia.

Sir, Constitutional provisions are there to guide those in authority and ensure a thriving democracy and good governance. Unfortunately, some individuals tend to think that they are above the law and that they can violate the Constitution of Zambia with impunity.

Mr Chairperson, it is against the Constitution of this country for anybody to make pronouncements or issue threats against the Judges of this country on ZNBC TV, and a public officer who violates the Constitution must be sanctioned, unless those statements have been endorsed by the supervising officer. I, therefore, look forward to seeing action taken against the officer who violated of the Constitution of Zambia with impunity.

Hon. PF Member: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: There is no way a civil servant can single out a Judge of the High Court, Supreme Court or Court of Appeal and issue threats against him. So, if no sanctions will be taken against such an individual, we will take it that his statements had the blessings of the supervising authority.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Hon. PF Member: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, we all swore to uphold the Constitution before you. Therefore, if we allow individuals to violate the Constitution of Zambia with impunity, we will break the oath that we took, and there will be breakdown of law and order and no proper governance in this country. In this regard, I am happy to see Her Honour the Vice-President listening to what I am saying.

Sir, it is not in anyone’s interest to abuse the Constitution. If an individual has grievances pertaining to the operations of one of the arms of the Government, there are procedures that must be followed in seeking redress instead of openly abusing and issuing threats against the Judiciary. The precedence that has been set will lead to a breakdown of law and order in this country. Who will be willing to appear before the Judiciary if it will be unduly influenced by anybody in authority? Even my colleagues on your right would not want to go to court if they knew that someone would unduly influence the outcome. I know that those who are aggrieved by the outcomes of the election petitions that were before the courts have appealed against the judgments. That is the procedure and civilised way of doing things in this country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, we cannot allow individuals to think that they are above the law. So, we expect Her Honour the Vice-President to see to it that appropriate action is taken against those individuals who have violated the Constitution.

Sir, just as Her Honour the Vice-President has stated, there must be equity in the distribution of the wealth of this country and several pronouncements have been made on the Floor of this House to the effect that all the provinces benefit equitably. Unfortunately, we have been informed, through this Budget, that those who did not benefit from the Link 8,000 Kilometre Road Project in the previous years will not benefit this year, too, because there is no money. We have been told that the Government will concentrate on on-going projects. It, therefore, follows that all of us who were assured on the Floor of this House that our constituencies would be included in the second phase of the project will not benefit. In that regard, I urge the hon. Minister of Finance to look at these issues critically and make variations to the Budget. All elected hon. Members of Parliament expect developmental projects to be implemented in their constituencies. Otherwise, it is irrelevant for all of us to be in this House. I do not think there is any elected Member who does not want development in their constituency.

Sir, yesterday, we saw Very few constituencies benefit from the allocation of tractors. In certain instances, some constituencies were given more than three tractors while others were not given any. What sort of equity is that? I am raising this issue under this debate because State House is responsible for the policy direction of the country. If a Minister does something contrary to the wishes of the President, some measures should be taken against him or her. I expect to see equity in the way we deal with members of the public and the hon. Members of this House. For instance, if 100 boreholes should be sunk, State House must direct that they be distributed across 100 constituencies so that there is equity.

Mr Chairperson, I do not expect developmental projects to only benefit those from ‘the royal family’ because that is a violation of Article 8 of the Constitution of this country. So, I expect that as we debate this Budget, we will collectively agree to ensure that every constituency benefits from the resources of this country. Every Zambian, including the person in Shangombo Constituency, pays tax. Therefore, everyone deserves a fair share of the national cake.

With those few remarks, I thank you most sincerely.

The Second Chairperson: Before the next debater takes the Floor, I want to remind you that we are looking at the budget for State House. So, let us try to concentrate on that head.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima (Chirundu): Mr Chairperson, were State House not the important institution that it is, I would not have supported its budget because of what has happened in the recent past. However, I will support it because it is only an individual who has distorted the institution. However, my support is on condition that what my brother, Hon. Mwiimbu, said about how civil servants must never interfere in the politics of this country, is taken into consideration. It is only common sense, although, in this country, there is a lot of common nonsense.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: However, even common ‒

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member for Chirundu!

The word ‘nonsense’ is unparliamentary.

Ms Lubezhi: Uncle Doug!

The Second Chairperson: Can you withdraw it.

Mr Syakalima: I withdraw it, Sir.

Mr Chairperson, during our school days, we learnt in social studies that civil servants should not be involved in politics. However, this is now happening at the citadel of Government policy, and that is unacceptable, it has never been acceptable and it will never be acceptable.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Her Honour the Vice-President should carry this message. She is now the bearer of my message.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: We will not allow anyone, no matter how powerful, to abrogate the Constitution. It does not matter who one is.

Mr Chairperson, last week, I said that if this Budget, which has austere measures, has to be implemented effectively, there must be reasonableness. The Executive requires the support of everyone. However, if it keeps civil servants who wear the garb of party stewards, it will deregulate this Budget. This type of behaviour creates and heightens tension in a country, and a tense country cannot effectively implement austerity measures. I reminded the hon. Minister of Finance to tell his colleagues, the ones he found in the Patriotic Front (PF), what austerity measures are because the latter literally do not understand what austerity means. There have been problems in Morocco and Sudan because of austerity measures. That is why the Government requires the support of everyone. Otherwise, the austerity measures may cause chaos. I am talking like this because I always say things they way I see them. This is not a threat, but a fact of history.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Those who do not learn from history will be confined to the same dustbin of history.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: So, we must be very careful with what protrudes from our mouths.

Mr Chairperson, …

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Hon. Minister, looking at the time, I am very reluctant to grant points of order. Further, we should bear in mind that the Executive will be given a chance to respond to the issues that are being raised. So, I think that what is important, for now, is for those on the right to take note of what is being said so that when the time comes, they can respond.

Hon. Member for Chirundu, you may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chairperson, we are here to advise one another.

Prof. Luo: But do not insult!

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Syakalima: We are here to advise one another.

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Continue, hon. Member for Chirundu.

Mr Syakalima: Mr Chairperson, as you may know, people come together to appoint a Government for the public good.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Those in the Government have been appointed by Zambians for the public good, nothing else. So, if they do not want to listen, that is their fault.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: I will say things the way I see them because that is how I have always been.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Sir, I think that my friend, the hon. Minister of Finance, understands what I mean when I say that austere measures ‒

Hon. Government Measures: Austerity!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: It is the same thing.

The Second Chairperson: Continue, hon. Member for Chirundu, we understand.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Second Chairperson: Continue, hon. Member. We understand.

Mr Syakalima: They, probably, do not understand that a word can be used as an adjective and as a noun. So, if my comprehension is beyond their level ‒

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Second Chairperson: Hon. Member, avoid that area and withdraw that statement.

Mr Syakalima: Which statement?

The Second Chairperson: The one about levels. We are all hon. Members of Parliament here and we are rendering a service to the nation.

Mr Syakalima: I withdraw the statement, Sir.

Mr Chairperson, what I am saying is that chaos must not start from State House because it is the citadel of Government policy.

Mrs Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: It is unacceptable, and I am saying this with a lot of passion. In a country that is implementing austerity measures, …

Mr Kabamba: Ehe!

Mr Syakalima: … the leadership requires the support of everyone. However, winning that support starts with the behaviour of those who are in the Government. Otherwise, how can the Executive think that I cannot support it when it has lampooned the Judges? Does it know that Zambians elect the Government? When the President appoints the Chief Justice and Judges, the nominees have to be ratified by this House before they can be sworn in. Even the Speaker is elected by the people’s House, then, sworn in by the President. So, anyone who is in any of the three arms of the Government has been elected by the people.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: That is what it means.

Mr Kasonso: Teach them!

Mr Syakalima: Therefore, no one should say that the President is above the Speaker or the Legislature and the Judiciary.

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Chairperson, as we approve this Vote, I ask those who care …

Mr Kabamba: The President is in charge!

Mr Syakalima: … to go and tell State House that confusion and chaos must not start from there.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Hon. Minister of Finance, my friend, if you want this Budget to be implemented in the way that you want, remind your colleagues ...

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: ... that they should not expect only half the country to adhere to the austerity measures.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Do you understand, hon. Minister? Since you are able to listen and understand, I hope that you will persuade many of your colleagues in that Government you joined.

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: I know that you understand what I am trying to put forward, but your colleagues do not.

Laughter

Mr Ndalamei: Persuade them!

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Speak through the Chair and avoid being personal.

Mr Livune: The Chair also understands!

Interruptions

Mr Syakalima: Mr Chairperson, this is very literal because, as said in the beginning, under the normal circumstances, I could have opposed this Vote. However, since I understand that there is an individual behind it, who has emotions like everyone else, we will support it on the condition that the individual might not see the light of tomorrow in his position.

Hon UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: That is the way life is. One can say, “Question!” and foment more tension, but the more tension is fomented, the more these measures will not be implemented. It is as simple as that.

Sir, I hope I have been understood, and I am pretty sure that Her Honour the Vice-President will carry my message where it is intended, away from the walls of this House.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Second Chairperson: Before I call upon Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa to debate, I want to say that we should avoid repeating issues that have already been raised by other hon. Members.

You may take the Floor, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I agree with Her Honour the Vice-President that State House is the seat of the Presidency of our nation and the apex of policy making.

Sir, the challenge that this nation has been having is that we have not used State House effectively to produce statesmen. The lack of statesmanship is one of our biggest challenges in this country, and there are many things that prove that.

Mr Chairperson, first of all, we are currently a deeply divided country …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … in the aftermath of the just-ended elections. The country requires the statesmanship capable of finding a way of addressing the deep division among us and which can be a source of conflict, tension and problems in our nation.

Mr Chairperson, everybody looks to State House to provide statesmanship. In simple terms, a statesman is a political figure who is experienced, skilled and highly respected, both nationally and internationally. It is someone who actually directs the statecraft, which is the nation. The deep wound of division we have in our nation today will not be healed by the mere parroting of the One Zambia, One Nation motto no matter how much we do it.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, we have heard many of our leaders on your right parrot the One Zambia, One Nation slogan in a divided nation. How can that be? How can one establish the unity that is embodied in our Constitution? Our Constitution has identified unity as one of the very important national values that ought to be promoted and seen to be promoted.

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE SECOND CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was underlining the need for unity in our deeply divided country. Clearly, it is from State House that we expect direction for creating national unity to come.

Sir, from what I have heard so far, our nation is increasingly becoming divided. For example, the implementation of developmental projects is highly discriminatory of some regions of the country. For instance, last week and part of this week, we heard about the tarring of the township roads in one part of the country, but we have not heard anything about the same in the other parts, and that is extremely divisive. We also heard, as my colleague has already mentioned, the allocation of tractors to one part of the country to the exclusion of other parts, which is not right. As you know, whenever hammer mills were distributed by the Ministry of Gender, for example, they were given to all the constituencies.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Each hon. Member would go to the ministry to collect three hammer mills for his or her constituency without any complaint at all. Now, there is discrimination and it will create unnecessary tension in the country. So, the Presidency has comes in and give direction, as Her Honour the Vice-President has pointed out, and that direction must be one that builds the nation, …

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … brings people together, wins respect for the Presidency and creates the best reputation possible for the Presidency. The current discriminatory implementation of developmental programmes in the country is unacceptable and requires a demonstration of statesmanship by the Presidency.

Sir, one of the problems facing us as we endeavour to achieve statesmanship is that those who support the Presidency are behaving like politicians or political leaders, yet they are civil servants. Their role is to facilitate the development of statesmanship in the country.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … and ensure that whoever becomes President commands national and international respect. For example, anybody who writes to the President must be answered by the President, with the letter bearing the President’s signature. However, the civil servants who surround the President hide letters addressed to him. That is not right because the President must get feedback from every corner of the country. The civil servants should not insulate the Presidency just to protect their own interest.

Mr Chairperson, when somebody becomes President in this country, even the language used at State House changes because some people want to hear their language spoken in State House. That is not right. State House belongs to all of us, not to one group of people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: It is also disgusting and absurd to see, for example, to see how State functions at State House have become opportunities for exhibiting patronage. In most cases, you see one section of our country elevating itself as if it owns that institution, which is absolutely wrong. State House should be a unifying and respected institution, not the playground of cadres that it now is. It is no longer even dignified to attend State functions because of the cadres that one would find fighting over beer and food. One cannot even have the time to interact with other leaders. Therefore, what kind of image is State House projecting?

Sir, as a way of building our national culture and identity, during State functions, we should invite cultural groups from every corner of the country to perform instead of inviting performers from one corner of the country only. That is wrong. Unfortunately, these things are being perpetrated by the civil servants who facilitate access to State House and provide support services to the institution, and those are the indicators of a failing African State.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Statesmanship is being destroyed by those who support State House, and we must move away from that. Instead, we should view State House as an establishment for unifying the nation and giving direction in equitable distribution of development programmes and projects to every corner of the country. Sadly, we have an altogether wrong ideology. We have heard our colleagues on your right say that some parts of this country will not get development because they did not vote for some people. That is the ideology they parrot every day.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: State House must correct that. For example, any Minister who makes such a statement must be condemned and fired by the powers that be because such statements are immoral and inimical to national unity. State House must provide the direction towards the building of a better and inclusive nation, as the mission statement indicates. However, how can State House be inclusive when the current Cabinet is not? Look at who is in the Cabinet.

Mr Chilangwa: Look at yourselves!

Interruptions

Mr Sikazwe: What about you?

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Debate the topic, which is the Head for State House.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, in the past, we used to see inclusiveness. For example, right from Independence, State House appointed members of the Cabinet from every corner of the country and everybody could identify with the Cabinet. That was a demonstration of the principle of inclusiveness that is mentioned in the mission statement for State House. If inclusiveness is the policy direction, State House must be seen to be inclusive in the appointments it makes. Otherwise, looking at the exclusivity that is being demonstrated in the appointments made by State House, we will say that is the policy of the current Presidency of the Republic of Zambia, and that, unfortunately, a disastrous path to the failure of States, which is characteristic of many parts of Africa. So, we should move away from it.

Mr Chairperson, these are very important observations, but it is up to our colleagues, through Her Honour the Vice-President, to take them to State House. We want to see a Zambia that is better for everybody.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for according me this opportunity to add a few words to the debate on the Vote for State House.

Sir, having listened to my elder brother who just finished speaking, I get the impression that politicians become better when they have been in Government and left. My elder brother was just talking about the issue of political cadres swarming State House. However, when he was a Minister like I was, he saw the things about which he talked, but did not do anything to correct them. Now that he is out of the Government, he wants to condemn them.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: I think that Zambians must learn to bite the bullet. Even when in the Government, when they see wrong things, they must condemn them. I do not think it is right for us to condemn what we condoned when in the Government after we have left the Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, State House is a very important institution because it houses the Head of State, and I think people must realise that whoever becomes the Head of State becomes an institution that every Zambian must respect.

Sir, people are talking about State House not offering hope and development to all the corners of the country, forgetting that some of them do not respect the President.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: We are just human and we all have emotions. Therefore, we must realise that if we really want to get the best out of anybody, we need to, first, respect them. You must respect somebody in order for you to be respected.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

Let us listen.

Mr Kambwili: What I have seen after the last two elections is that some Zambians want to demean the Office of the President. I know that, sometimes, one might not like the person in the Office of the President, but because it is an institution established by our Constitution, we need to respect it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: I have even heard people talk about not having access to State House, yet when some political parties have expelled their Members of Parliament for patronising State House to even if it was to lobby for development.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Kambwili: So, how is State House expected to react to such behaviour? People must learn from others. For instance, when I was in the Opposition, I visited State House many times. Every time President Rupiah Banda asked me to go and see him, ...

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kambwili: ... I would simply get permission from Mr Sata and go to meet the President. After the visit to State House, I would report to Mr Sata on our discussions. However, what I see today is that when one is the Opposition, State House becomes a no-go area, and that is wrong. It must come to an end.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: If we have to develop this country, all hon. Members of Parliament must not be stopped from going to State House by their political parties because that institution is there to serve all of us. Today, when somebody like my brother-in-law goes to State House to visit, you hear that he has been suspended from his political party.

Sir, we need to respect State House regardless of who is in it because if we do not respect our own President, nobody in the world will. Someone said that the President must be respected by everybody internationally. How do can he expect his President, who is called chimbwi no plan by the people he leads, to be respected internationally?

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kambwili: It really does not make sense.

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, what does that mean?

Mr Kambwili: Sir, ‘chimbwi no plan’ refers to a person who does not know what he wants to do at the end of the day.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, these are issues we must straighten before we can expect State House to be inclusive. Elections ended four months ago, but some people in some parts of the country still claim that their President will be declared the winner by the International Court of Justice (ICJ). Some people have continued to spread that propaganda when they know that we already have a President, instead of going back to the people to tell them to respect the Head of State. People must act like Mr Sata, who formed Government after losing three or four elections. However, every time he lost elections, the party respected the institution of the President. Even when it came to State functions, ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Members on my left!

Mr Kambwili: ... I do not remember any time the Patriotic Front (PF) boycotted the commemoration of Youth Day, for example.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: Yes. That is a fact.

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Members on my left!

Let us pay attention. The hon. Member is debating. Some of you will be given an opportunity to debate to respond to what the hon. Member saying. It is as simple as that.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Kambwili: Sir, I was the National Youth Chairperson for the PF and I remember that it was the Government of the day that used to block us from attending the Youth Day celebrations. However, every year, we participated despite the efforts to block us. We also participated in the Women’s Day celebrations every year. That is why it was easy for us to form Government. We respected the Office of the President.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: The only person who did not attend State functions was our president, Mr Sata, because we advised him against it, as he was often demonised. So, if State House is to provide services to everybody, the starting point is that we respect and recognise the in the office. For me, even if Hakainde Hichilema (HH) became President today, I would respect him.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Kambwili: However, today, the President is insulted from the left, right and centre as if he does not occupy the highest office in the land, and that is causing tension in the country. Once we recognise the Presidency and the President, these issues will be a thing of the past.

Mr Chairperson, since State House is in charge of fostering social justice and providing social amenities, it must intervene when we make policies that are not in tandem with the current trends in the economy. Some people may think that the ban on public service vehicles (PSVs) from moving during the night is a transport and communication issue, but I think issues start and end with State House. Personally, I do not think banning busses from travelling twenty-four hours a good decision.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: We have shot ourselves in the foot in as far as economic development in this country is concerned. There are many ways in which we can control accidents. There are marketeers out there who leave their towns at 21:00 hours to come to Lusaka on buses to come to buy their wares. They sleep on the buses because they do not have money to book hotel rooms. Early the next morning, they go to the markets and do their purchases. They start off for their towns at 18:00 hours and reach the following morning and sell their goods in their markets after travelling the whole night. However, the Government has decided to ban buses moving at night. So, I appeal to State House to rescind that decision because it is bad for this country and the economy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Kambwili: It is bad for the poor people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

I hope you still remember that we are debating the Vote for State House. The point you have raised can be raised during debate on some ministries.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, the buck stops at State House, and ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: ... I think that some issues must be raised directly with that institution. I am sure that the President is interested in this debate and listening to it. That is why I brought up that issue.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the ban on selling second-hand tyres. Most people who own vehicles today are teachers and police officers. Even in England, which is a very developed economy, there are shops that sell second-hand tyres. So, that decision is also wrong. Where does the Government expect the poor to buy tyres? They cannot buy a tyre at K1,200 when their salaries are about K3,200. This decision must be reversed so that the poor can buy affordable second-hand tyres.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Sir, I thought it important ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer, hammer!

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kambwili: ... to make these contributions in order for us to help one another to move our country forward.

With those few words, I totally support the budget for the Office of the President, State House.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Chairperson, I promise not to take too long because most of the ideas that I had ...

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: You are making noise!

Mr Nkombo: ... have been well espoused by my colleagues.

Sir, my usual style of debate is to assure the hon. Minister of Finance that we will support his Budget and this Vote. Her Honour the Vice-President can take that message to the President.

Sir, when I debated the Motion moved by the hon. Minister of Finance generally, I stated that the devil lay in the details. Now that we have the details in the Yellow Book, what has immediately come to mind after looking at the 2016 and 2017 Votes for State House is that it is on all fours. I am sure the hon. Minister understands what I mean. The allocation is slightly over K50 million, excluding the K5 million a new Vote for public-private partnerships (PPPs), whatever that entails. I am sure we will cross that bridge when we get to it.

Mr Chairperson, the issue on which I would like to dwell is the abuse of the media by State House, and I would like this message to be very clear. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

Sir, I am sure you recall very well that Muvi TV, Itezhi-tezhi Radio and Komboni Radio were closed soon after the elections and one of the striking allegations made against them was that they were promoting hate. My colleagues have spoken at great length about the behaviour of the civil servants at State House. The Constitution is the grundnorm or bedrock on which society must operate without any exceptions. Everyone must follow the Constitution at State House, starting from the Head of State to the cleaner.

Mr Chairperson, respect for the Constitution is still lacking. Allow me to demonstrate why the doctrine of separation of powers is very important. In the Draft Constitution, the President was to be at the pinnacle of this society while the Ministers would not be Members of the Cabinet or the Legislature, but they would be appointed by the Head of State. That was the definition of the spirit of the doctrine of the separation of powers. Further, just like in South Africa, the country would operate on the basis of the party list. What that means is that a party member, including the Head of State, could be recalled from any position. You saw, for example, how Mr Thabo Mbeki was recalled from the Presidency and replaced by Mr Zuma, who also faces a similar fate today. Even our current Constitution still has some safeguards to ensure appropriate conduct on the part of public office holders, including the President. Were the Presidency not a public office, we would not be discussing it today because it would just be a private enterprise like a chicken run somewhere. However, its decisions affect everyone.

Sir, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) should have been on the list of deregistered media houses because it is fanning hatred and trouble in the country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: A day or two ago, we saw a news report on how someone was jailed because of abusing the ZNBC yet, due to political patronage, the same media house allowed a State House official to cast aspersions and disparage High Court Judges to the extent of naming some. Judges are the custodians of the judicial system, which is supposed to be fair. Unfortunately, we know that they are human. We saw emotions flare in this House when some hon. Members were debating simply because some of the people on the right have been affected by the recent judgments of the High Court.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, if the Patriotic Front (PF) had not mutilated the Draft Constitution, we would not have to go for by-elections. Instead, the one who got the most votes after the one whose election has been nullified would be declared the actual winner.

Mr Chairperson, I applaud the Speaker who, in superintending over this House, has tried by all means to stop us from revisiting the electioneering period because he knows very well that wounds will not heal easily. However, there was the President, who sits at the apex of the country, telling the ZNBC to replay the caption of his staff member talking about the Judiciary. That shocked me because, to me, it was very close to misconduct, as ...

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Nkombo: ... even those who did not hear what was said will now have an opportunity to do so. That means the trouble will percolate, as everyone will start parroting the story.

Mr Chairperson, today, I heard a high ranking PF official say that the United Party for National Development (UPND) is mischievous for talking about this issue. However, yesterday, the President of the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) issued a statement on her displeasure over the conduct of the State House official. So, how does Hon. Mutati expect me to just put a seal of approval on the allocation of funds to State House that will enable that fellow to continue abusing his position to demean the third arm of the Government?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

The Second Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

The word ‘fellow’ is unparliamentary.

Mr Nkombo: I withdraw the word ‘fellow’ and replace it with ‘individual’.

Sir, if the current President is like the late President, I am sure he is listening to his radio. Mr President, if you are listening, there is no need to sugar-coat what your member of staff did ‒

Laughter

The Second Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Address the Chair and avoid ‒

Mr Nkombo: Through you, Sir ‒

The Second Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

We all know the rules of this House. Let us avoid dragging people outside this House into our debates.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, the Presidency is sacrosanct. In Tonga we say cilatondwa. When you are put in that position, you must be the anchor for fairness. You cannot have members of staff who behave like spoiled little children who soil themselves every now and then. I remember one late President whose children were very troublesome and I can only equate those few individuals at State House to that President’s children.

Sir, in relation to the pronouncements from State House, we have heard the President talk about corruption and, just today, we heard him talk about fatigue and that some Permanent Secretaries (PSs) must brace themselves for retirement. Surely, I thought that was a bit beneath the President because if a Permanent Secretary, who is a controlling officer, is told that he or she will be retired anytime, he or she will loot public resources. I did not know that nowadays there is a device that measures fatigue like a thermometer measures temperature or a lie detector works for the police. The President said some PSs are tired and that he would flush them out. That is fair, as it is his prerogative. He also said that some Ministers were corrupt.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Nkombo: You understand? I think the Presidency can save itself from public ridicule speculation. For an example, people will start wondering whether the corrupt Minister to whom the President referred was Hon. Mutati, Hon. Lubinda or Her Honour the Vice-President. The whole society is engrossed in speculation as to who among them is corrupt.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: I think that office must earn its respect by the manner in which it conducts itself. That is what I am saying.

Sir, I have heard that for someone to see development nowadays, they must go to State House.

Mr Livune: And patronise!

Mr Nkombo: Since I became a Member of Parliament, I have been to State House only once and I did not go there to look for development because I know that is not where development is supposed to be found. To think that the President dispenses development is to think that he President is an abuser.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: It means that development is dispensed on an if-you-rub-my-back-I-will-rub-yours-too or smile-at-me-and-I-will-smile-at-you basis. I also hear many hon. Members in this House plead for the hon. Minister of Finance to fund development in their constituencies. I will not do that because the hon. Minister of Finance knows what he is supposed to do. The Constitution of Zambia states that the Government should distribute public resources equitably, including to the people of Mazabuka. So, I will not go to the hon. Minister of Finance to smile at him or peacock-dance with him.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: I will only do the job a Member for Parliament is supposed to do, that is, to legislate and exercise oversight on the Government. That is what I am doing. I will not go and drink coffee with the hon. Minister and be told that if I join the PF, everything will be well in my constituency.

Mr Michelo: Hear, hear!

Tonga bull!

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: That is patronage. I wish to inform Her Honour the Vice-President that this group of people she sees this side are fairly insulated here and no amount of sweets or pressure will make us believe that we have to peacock-dance with the Executive in order for development to reach our constituencies.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: The Government is duty-bound to take development to our areas regardless of whether they like my appearance or manner of speech or not. It is duty-bound to serve the people of Mazabuka because there are a few votes that the PF got from there that added-up to its so-called win.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: That is the point I am trying to make. So, let us look into these figures. As we have learnt now, State House is the Alpha and Omega.

Sir, Hon. Mutati said that we will only fund road projects that were in Phase 1 and 2 of the Link Zambia 8,000 Kilometre Road Project. As part of that project, however, 28 km of tarmac roads were supposed to be constructed in Mazabuka, but it was not done. Now, I am told that unless I peacock-dance with His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Lungu, fa lino la mukuwa, there will be development in my area.

The Second Chairperson: Meaning?

Mr Nkombo: Sir, “fa lino la mukuwa” means “upon a white person’s tooth”, and it is a way of emphasising that something will not happen.

Sir, there will be no peacock-dancing with the President. I respect him as my President, but I will not peacock-dance with him to get favours because our business is not based on favours. Rather, it is one of people coming from all parts of the country to sit here, at Manda Hill, and share the national cake equitably.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, people should not say that if I am good to Hon. Lubinda, he will pass a law that favours me. The law should not have eyes. Neither should development. We have to rid this country of the idea that patronising State House is the way to get development because it is at the office of the ‘Chancellor of the Exchequer’ that development should be sought. That is why I visit the Ministry of Finance to push for funding for road projects. However, when I go there, I do not kneel down to plead. Rather, I say, “In the Budget, there is this amount allocated for roads in my constituency. When will you disburse it?” So, if this Government expects us to kunkula or prostrate ourselves before it, …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … it will be disappointed.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson, for giving me the opportunity to debate. I am quite certain that the level-headed hon. Minister of Finance, who stands very tall among the tall, …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … has heard. I am also sure that as he delves into the details of this Budget, he will adequately address the issue of equity. We shall not allow him to do the opposite. Just like we behaved with him during the push for a new Constitution, if this Budget will maintain its current complexion, in other words, if only some selected areas will benefit from the tax that is collected from Zambia Sugar Company in my constituency, tafyakabe bwino.

Hon. Members: Meaning?

Mr Nkombo: It means, “It will not be well.” We will have to escalate the acrimony. So, I think the hon. Minister has a duty to calm this tension by, at least, being to do what he is supposed to do in my constituency without my necessarily have to be his friend. However, that is not say he is not my friend, as he actually is.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Chairperson, I urge Her Honour the Vice-President to carry a message of gratitude from the people of Chama South to His Excellency the President of this country, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, for his decision to cut his salary by 50 per cent.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: It is only in this country where when the Head of State does something good, we want to keep quiet. If this happened in, for example, Tanzania, we could have heard our colleagues praise the President. It is important that we praise our leaders when they are still alive. State House is a key to almost all the activities of this country.

Mr Chairperson, I am getting a bit perplexed by the issues that have been raised on the Floor of this House, particularly those relating to the separation of powers. It is like we are failing to understand the thin line that keeps the separation. For example, people talked about a civil servant who appeared on national television and threatened the Judges. We should understand how State House functions. The Head of State cannot be seen talking all the time. It is also dangerous to think that one arm of the Government is infallible. For example, this House has been attacked by some people on several occasions. An example is when the hon. Member for Mwansabombwe moved a Motion for this House to amend the Constitution and the general public reacted. Even some members of the Judiciary did. So, it seems that it is alright for the Legislature is criticised, but wrong for individuals to raise concerns with the Judiciary.

Sir, State House has the mandate to ensure that all Government functions are executed in accordance with its plans, and we should underline that. If, State House observes that in one area things are not moving in a way that will enable us to meet our objectives, we will talk. In that regard, I urge that civil servant who appeared on television to continue talking, even though I missed the clip.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Chairperson, it is his duty.

Mr Chairperson, if some individuals think that they can frustrate the Government, they should be fired. I am saying to Her Honour the Vice-President that this Back Bencher is behind the President. Let him fire them.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President should inform the President that the people of Chama South are in total support of the inclusive development on which the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has embarked.

Hon. PF. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, we are also concerned that there is more development taking place in the areas where people are complaining of a lack of development than in Muchinga Province and Chama South Constituency, in particular. Some amounts have been allocated to some provinces in the Budget, but we are not against it because we believe in ‘One Zambia, One Nation’ and we live by that motto.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Speaker, I totally disagree with those who say that the country is deeply divided.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: It is a few frustrated individuals who want to hold to ransom the excellent people of the areas from which they come.

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: They are making it hard for His Excellency to make decisions because of the manner in which they are portraying themselves. I have never found it difficult to go, for example, to the Western Province and have never heard anyone at the grassroots say that they are not happy.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: It is the same in the Southern and North-Western provinces.

Mr Kambita: Question!

Mr Mung’andu: However, if you hear what is said by politicians who come from those areas, you would be disturbed.

Mr Chairperson, I urge the people of this country to realise that State House is there to protect everyone. Therefore, when State House raises a concern, it does so in the public interest.

Mr Mushanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: In any case, State House has more information than anyone of us and it cannot be expected to remain quiet when things are not being done correctly.

Mr Chairperson, the issue of His Excellency sounding a warning to Permanent Secretaries (PSs) ...

Hon. PF Member: Is normal.

Mr Mung’andu: ... is very normal.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: If anything, I congratulate him because it cannot be business-as-usual.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: It is only the indolent PSs and those working to frustrate what His Excellency and the team at State House want to achieve or those who support the other side of the coin who should be worried and we support the President’s desire to chase them.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: They either have to look after their jobs and do what State House wants or go.

Mr Chairperson, if my memory serves me right, the people who attacked the Judiciary ...

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order, on my left!

Mr Mung’andu: ... during the Constitutional Court hearings are the ones who have turned around today to get on the rooftops to show solidarity with it. I do not know the right term to use for this. If hypocrisy is unparliamentary, I say it is insincerity.

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Chairperson, what we are looking forward to, as a country, is to have a professional Civil Service; …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: … one that will implement the policy directions of the Ruling Party. It is clear that some people have a network of moles in the Civil Service. It is also clear that His Excellency means business and will dismantle it.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: So, they are shaken.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Member: Mwamvera?

Mr Mung’andu: We are in a hurry to develop this country.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: So, if there is anyone in the Civil Service who wants to frustrate the efforts of the Government, they need to know that we are equal to the task. It is either ‒

Hon. UPND Members: Who are you?

Mr Mung’andu: I am a Member of Parliament.

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Please, speak through the Chair.

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Chairperson, people should understand that this is a people’s House. We come from the various constituencies that make up this country.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: We know all the heads of departments, District Commissioners (DCs) and PSs because they come from our constituencies.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: If someone can ask who I am, then, I will wonder who the person is, too.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, concentrate on what we are debating and ignore the hecklers.

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your guidance.

Sir, there were also some observations on State functions. Yes, one would suspect that things have been happening in a particular manner because of the same people that the President says are tired. It is to everyone’s concern that there is confusion during State functions held within the precincts of State House.

Mr Livune laughed.

Laughter

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mung’andu: This issue is non-partisan. It is does not show orderliness on our part, especially when foreign dignitaries are invited.

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: Like I said, it might have been the doing of the tired people that the President wants to purge.

Mr Nkombo: No!

Hon. PF Members: Yes!

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Chairperson, finally, I urge everyone to support this Vote because State House is the first point of contact with other nationals.

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: Sir, I submit that the attacks on some State House members of staff should come to an end ...

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Question!

Mr Mung’andu: … because those people speak from an informed point of view.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mung’andu: Only those who are behind the wrong things that State House has observed are currently having emotional diarrhoea.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: I have no doubt that we have a capable team at State House to handle them and their emissaries. I know that that the member of staff under attack is the President’s Special Assistant for Press and Public Relations. I urge him to continue speaking out because that is his job.

Hon. PF Member: Kokolapo!

Mr Mung’andu: Do we expect him to write on Facebook when something is wrong like some of us do?

Laughter

Mr Mung’andu: State House has the important responsibility of preserving the peace and tranquillity that this country has enjoyed over the years.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Hammer, hammer!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Mung’andu: Mr Chairperson, in spite of all the interjections, that is my submission.

Mr A. C. Mumba (Kantanshi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Vote for State House. From the outset, I would like to state that the Presidency is the centre of action. If the President’s Office is tired, the country is, too. Similarly, when the President’s Office catches a flu, all of us do, too.

Laughter

Mr A. C. Mumba: Mr Chairperson, I will particularly debate the foreign direct investment (FDI) that should be attracted by our Chief Diplomat.

Sir, I am concerned about some of the debates I have heard on the President’s visits, which are meant attract FDI in our county, create jobs and expose this country to some of the areas in which we can invest. The various sectors of our economy that we have said needed investment have been well marketed abroad and, today, we see opportunities being extended to Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, His Excellency the President visited France last year and the Agence Française de Dévelopment (AFD), the French Government’s agency for international development, gave my town, Mufulira; Chingola; and Chililabombwe a concessional loan of €50 million to work on the water reticulation and sanitation system. That happened for the first time since 1985.

Mr Mutelo: Where is Yamfwa?

Mr A. C. Mumba: Mr Chairperson, is that not supposed to be a positive thing to talk about? We all know that water is life. However, in my district today, people receive water bills, yet not a drop comes out of their taps. Now, that concessional loan will change the lives of the people even before we talk about the employment that will be created. That should be talked about.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the Saudi Arabia. I follow these things keenly because this country gave me the privilege of being a Trade Secretary and I understand what it means to attract investment into the country.

Mr Mwale: Bauze!

Mr A. C. Mumba: Sir, there are two areas that have attracted my interest. One of them is one about which my colleagues are very passionate, that is, livestock. This country has, for the first time, been granted access to a large market for goats and sheep. Furthermore, we will hold a livestock investment conference for the first time. Thanks to this House, I was privileged to attend a meeting in Nairobi and discovered that there is huge interest in our country among investors because of the diversification programme. I know that we will create more jobs in the Southern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr A. C. Mumba: That is my passion, to see more jobs created in the Southern Province because I believe in loving my neighbour as I love myself.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. Mumba: The people we represent should look as wealthy and healthy as we do.

Mr Ngulube: Exactly!

The Second Chairperson: Hon. Member, speak through the Chair.

Mr A. C. Mumba: Yes, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Ngulube: Ema Independent aba!

Mr A. C. Mumba: Mr Chairperson, regarding the President’s attendance of the climate change conference in Morocco, climate change is a big issue. As we talk about agriculture, we are supposed to be concerned about our climate. The issue is being politicised because of the myopic scope of our politics. People are busy talking about the President’s trips, but they are not talking about the purpose of those trips and their benefits to the country. Our involvement in the issues of climate change is necessary for us to plan for agriculture as we aim to create the double-digit growth rate and invest in agriculture at the level we say we should.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. C. Mumba: We need to understand what is happening globally in terms of the weather patterns. Further, from that platform, Zambia can access €2 billion under a special fund.

Mr Chairperson, regarding the latest meeting, which was in Equatorial Guinea, the Middle East wants to do business with Africa. On average, the President’s trips last two nights, especially in Africa. All of here fly and know what jet lag is. You arrive today and immediately go into a meeting. A day later, you fly back home. So, we are being unfair not only to this country, but also untruthful to the people we represent.

Mr Mwale: Hear, hear!

Mr A. C. Mumba: Mr Chairperson, from the Equatorial Guinea meeting, the President has already announced that the hon. Ministers of Finance; Agriculture; and Commerce, Trade and Industry, who are very capable people, should go back and follow up on the issues that were discussed. When the jobs are created, everyone is quiet. Let us not exhibit double standards.

Mr Ngulube: Tell them!

Mr A. C. Mumba: It is not profitable for this country, especially given what we are going through. We need to unlock our full economic potential. How will we diversify the economy, as we said we want to do, if we will just sit in the office for fear of being criticised by some Opposition or Independent Member of Parliament if we move?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Tell them!

Mr A. C. Mumba: The President is duty-bound to grow this economy, create jobs, make our health and education systems functional, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. C. Mumba: ... and ensure that we have clean drinking water and that contractors are paid on time so that taxes can be collected and the money re-used on other projects. A functioning Government should operate like that.

Mr Mwale: Hear, hear!

Mr A. C. Mumba: Therefore, I urge all who are listening to take time to know how the Government operates. I am worried that Zambians are becoming more and more driven by hearsay instead of facts. The Budget has been presented and we all know what our towns, districts and constituencies need. However, when we adjourn, we keep quiet and point fingers at the Government, accusing it of failing to function properly.

Mr Chairperson, let me cite examples where the Government is doing very well because it has created the facilitation pillar for the success of the private sector. Under the livestock sub-sector, Zambeef is one firm that has excelled and is paying the Government a lot of money in taxes. Hon. Mutati knows that Zambeef will pay its taxes. So, we need to make sure ‒

Mr Mutelo: Talk about State House!

Mr A. C. Mumba: These are all initiatives. If the President does not interact with other Presidents, how do you expect him to function?

Sorry, Mr Chairperson, for not speaking through you.

Laughter

Mr A. C. Mumba: I cannot keep quiet when I know that everyone of us here knows the truth, but we want not exhibit double standards when we go to our constituencies.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

Mr A. C. Mumba: Mr Chairperson, the example I gave on livestock is a huge opportunity for our country. The next step is not only about rearing the goats, but also the construction of international-standard abattoirs and developing the value chain. In the past, we used to spend about US$24 million every year importing potatoes. However, opportunities have now opened up in companies from South Africa through Buyabamba. Chips or French fries, as they call them, used to be a luxury but, today, anybody can have them. That is what we need. In the same vein, I was talking about rice. I will encourage the President to find us a partner to promote out-grower schemes in the four varieties of rice we have in Zambia, namely Luapula, Chama, Nakonde and Zambezi. That can create jobs in the areas where the rice is cultivated.

Sir, as a country, we need should not only be quick to criticise, but also tell the truth and adequately support the Office of the President for the benefit of all of us.

With those few words, Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Higher Education (Prof. Luo): Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor.

Sir, I was listening very attentively to the debates, especially as the colleagues on the left debated, and I diagnosed a disease called complaining, criticism and jealousy (CCJ).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Mantenda opanda mankwala!

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Allow the hon. Minister to contribute. I observed her listening very quietly. So, it is her time to debate.

Prof. Luo: Until we find the cure to this disease, …

Mr Malanji: Kulibe mankwala!

Prof. Luo: … which has taken centre stage in our country, even talk about straightforward things like the budget for the Office of the President, will degenerate into dancing all over the place like it is a foxtrot routine.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, let me start by stating that I support the Vote for the Office of the President.

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: In doing that and commenting on some issues raised by our colleagues on the left, I am reminded of the following saying from my area: Akanwa ka milandu kalaibala meaning a mouth that is always causing problems, always starts. Another saying, fula akamulinso lyobe taulafula mukamunobe, meaning remove the speck from your eye before you remove the one in your friend’s eye.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about respect with respect to the just-ended elections in the United States of America (USA), where there was a lot of mudslinging …

Hon. UPND Members: Violence!

Prof. Luo: … and violence …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: … during the campaigns. When Mrs Hillary Clinton saw that Trump had won, she quietly accepted the loss and …

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: … the whole Government machinery has not only supported the President-elect, but also gone all over the world to make the country look good. Here, in our country, hon. Members want to look good in this House, yet they orchestrate violence and all sorts of things in society.

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, I do not want to name anybody. I need to listen for me to be able to guide the debate.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, our colleagues are talking about tension in this country, but who is fuelling the tension?

Hon. UPND Members: You!

Prof. Luo: They are.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

Tell them!

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, they are also talking about a lack of equity, yet the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has, since 2011, distributed resources all over the country, including in provinces where it got only two votes in an election.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, is the Bottom Road in the Northern, Luapula, Copperbelt, Eastern or Central provinces? Is it not in the Southern Province?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Is the Mongu/Kalabo Road not in the Western Province? What equity are they talking about? If anything, some hon. Members who complain in this House come from the most developed provinces of this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: We must have a moral impetus to say thank you. There is merit in saying thank you …

Hon. UPND Members: To whom?

Prof. Luo: … to the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu.

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, some hon. Members talked about people doing wrong things in their offices. Colleagues, let us have some morality. We know that some of you caused some of the unrest in our institutions of higher learning, yet you want to look good and create the impression that others are bad people. Let us appreciate that we sit in this House and contribute to the development of this nation by debating constructively, not destructively.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: There is no merit whatsoever in destruction.

Sir, somebody talked about history and, I think, forgot to say that unrest in some countries started with the kind of hate speech that leads to a person failing to even mention another’s name, preferring to refer to him as “an individual”. That is unacceptable.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Ema professor aba!

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, we must accept that there can only be one leader at any given time and that, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: … for now, the Lord Almighty chose His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: I want to emphasise that your leaders will have to wait for another five years to try their luck.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, I advise my colleagues in this honourable House that politics is like football or netball. After a game, the losers should go back and train so that they can do better next time.

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Prof. Luo: Sir, let me remind Hon. Mwiimbu that I won the Munali seat convincingly.

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

Prof. Luo: If any of you has any doubt, go back to Munali and you will see what we will do to you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

Remember that we are debating the budget for State House.

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, State House is the seat of the Presidency and it does not play any roles that people must debate here. We have to respect the Presidency and operations of State House because whether we like it or not, that is the engine of our country’s development. Contrary to tradition, regardless of whether people voted for us or not, we will develop the whole country. So, I appeal to my colleagues to stop this kind of discussion because they make it difficult for us in the Executive to continue helping people when they are ungrateful.

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, let us have order in the House so that we can progress.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Sir, since Jack Mwiimbu’s chest is about to burst, ...

Hon. UPND Members interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order.

The Second Chairperson: Hon. Mwiimbu, resume your seat.

Mr Mwiimbu resumed his seat.

The Second Chairperson: You may continue, hon. Minister.

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, ...

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: Hon. Members, let us listen to the hon. Minister’s debate. I want to listen to her.

Mr Mwiimbu: Why did she mention my name?

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Yes, she mentioned your name and that is why I ordered her to resume her seat. I did not want to her continue on that path. I am listening.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, let me conclude lest some people get high blood pressure, as ...

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: ... it might be too late for us to resuscitate them.

Sir, I support this vote and appeal to all hon. Members to accept the fact that State House is here to stay and that its occupant will remain His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, whom God has kindly given the mandate for the next five years.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, this has been one of the most stimulating debates to which I have listened.

Hon. UPND Members interjected.

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Let us listen.

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Mwiimbu opened the debate by referring to national values and principles of democracy, integrity, good governance, transparency, et cetera. Indeed, those are our national values and they are considered very important in the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. State House leads in upholding them.

Sir, the hon. Member also talked about the separation of powers. That principle is not entrenched in our Constitution, but it is part of the governance of Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. He respects the Judiciary and the Legislature. That is why when the 11^th August, 2016, Election results were announced, he waited for weeks before assuming office. Therefore, the issue of his interfering with the operations of the Judiciary is neither here nor there.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, sometimes, I fear to listen to some of our hon. Members because they come to this House with a chronic superiority complex, thinking that no one else has the capacity to think the way they do, that they possess all the knowledge in the world and that only they can solve all the problems of this country and the world. However, that is not possible. We need collective knowledge, action and wisdom to develop this nation.

Mr Lubinda: Wamvwa, Jack?

The Vice-President: Sir, we were conditioned to politics of the dustbin, but this is a new situation. As we go outside the House, perhaps, we will get more explanations on the politics of the dustbin.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa raised the issue of statesmanship in Zambia. All I can say is that one does not just wake up and one day and find oneself a statesman. Statesmen or women are exceptional individuals who rise under very exceptional circumstances. I remember that in August, 2016, eight men and one woman presented themselves to the Zambian people for election to the noble seat of President. Out of the nine contestants, one individual in the name of Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu emerged winner.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: That was simply because Zambians recognised the leadership and statesmanship in that man, and the confidence shown by Zambians in him cannot be undermined by us, the few hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, State House does not manufacture statesmen or women. It is the character of the individual who occupies State House and those out of State House. It is a rare leadership quality exhibited by some people and we have statesmen in this country, except we have a propensity to undermine our leaders. That is very unfortunate because this country may never produce a recognised statesman if we continue in this manner. We will not produce statesmen because we do not respect our leaders, especially those who hold political opinions that are different from ours.

Sir, Hon. Kambwili said a lot about respect for the Head of State and for the institutions that we create. Meanwhile, Hon. Nkombo spoke about the abuse of the public media and the so-called win of the Presidential election. Hon. Nkombo, you are my nephew and I think that time should come for you to accept what happened in August, 2016.

Mr Nkombo: I am your son.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Grow up!

The Vice-President: I do not think that we should have any peacock dances in here.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Mung’andu from Chama South talked about the need to praise our leaders whilst they are still alive. That is right. I think that Zambia should come to terms with the fact that we have leaders in our ranks, both on the right and the left. However, we do not respect one another because of our political inclinations.

Sir, Hon. Mumba touched on the President’s travels outside the country. The international visits are important for him to attract investment into the country.

Sir, the Presidency is an important institution that deserves respect. The current President is not the first and will definitely not be the last in Zambia. That is why it is very important for us to respect any Zambian who occupies that office. Otherwise, posterity will judge us harshly. As I said earlier, other people will occupy State House. However, if we continue to demean or undermine it, we will destroy the institution instead of building it.

Mr Chairperson, some of the comments made were good and meant to build the Presidency while others meant something else. All in all, however, I urge all hon. Members of this House to support the budget for State House.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 01/01 – (Office of the President – State House – Headquarters – K56,050,386).

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3005, Activity 700 – Public Private Partnership Unit – K5,000,000. What is the rationale of introducing this budget line and allocating it a colossal K5,000,000 when line ministries like the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry are already executing that function?

The Minister in the Office of the Vice-President (Ms Chalikosa): Mr Chairperson, the Public-Private Partnership (PPP) Act of 2009 provided for the establishment of the PPP Unit as a department in the Ministry of Finance. Due to considerations like cost and time, it was decided to kick-start the implementation of PPP projects. The functions of the unit were performed by the National Policy and Programme Implementation Department (NPPID) of the Ministry of Finance. However, that resulted in critical gaps in requisite skills and expertise, which negatively affected the implementation of the PPPs. In an effort to reap benefits of the PPP Act, the Government placed the unit under the Office of the President. His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, in his speech during the Official Opening of the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly on 18^th September, 2015, gave policy directives regarding the enhancement of PPP functions as follows:

“I direct that an autonomous body be created to professionally deal with public-private partnerships matters. To this end, State House, in liaison with Cabinet Office and relevant stakeholders, must spearhead the formation of this body, which will eventually be transferred to Cabinet Office. I expect all civil servants in relevant sector ministries to work towards the harmonisation of the legal and institutional framework to actualise this pronouncement.”

Mr Chairperson, following that directive, the President appointed the PPP Council, which is chaired by the hon. Minister of Finance, in December, 2015, while the PPP Technical Committee, which is chaired by the Secretary to Treasury, was appointed by the PPP Council Chairperson in January, 2016.

I thank you, Sir.

The Second Chairperson: Hon. Lufuma, you have the Floor. However, before you ask your question, I want to remind the hon. Minister to be brief when responding to questions.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3005, Activity 700 – Public Private Partnership Unit – K5,000,000. This budget line is new. That is why we are asking what it is all about, and the value it will add to the Budget and the economy. The hon. Minister said that the unit is embedded in the Constitution.

Mr Nkombo: In an Act of Parliament.

Mr Lufuma: Sorry, that it was created through an Act of Parliament and that it is supposed to be under the Ministry of Finance. Why has it been moved from the Ministry of Finance, where the Act places it, to the Office of the President?

Mr Ngulube: One question!

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Chairperson, this allocation will contribute to the achievement of national development objectives through the efficient and effective operationalisation of the PPP Unit. As to why the unit was moved from the Ministry of Finance, it was because the Government realised the need to reap benefits of the PPP Act.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President whether we are on the same page in understanding of what an Act of Parliament is, what its dictates are and that it is actually law, given that this country is of laws, not men.

Sir, when did we pass an Act that allows the President to shift funds that are in a legal framework from one institution to another? We would have been very happy if the K5 million had remained in the Ministry of Finance because under State House, it could be a means of perpetrating patronage and corruption. Like I said, some people actually think that development is found at State House. Why can we not preserve the sanctity of State House by not turning it into a transaction place?

Ms Chalikosa: Sir, the Act does not specify which ministry should administer the finances. It is, therefore, His Excellency President’s discretion to determine where the financial transactions can be best conducted.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K3,843,524 and Programme 3000, Activity 006 – Salaries – Super Scale – K5,040,594.

Sir, on Programme 3001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K3,843,524, there is a huge increment while on Programme 3000, Activity 006 – Salaries – Super Scale – K5,040,594, there is a decrease. Does it mean that the deduction from Programme 3001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K3,843,524 is what has been added to Programme 3000, Activity 006 – Salaries – Super Scale – K5,040,594?

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Chairperson, they are different figures.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3000, Activity 005 – Other Emoluments – K723,606. Why has the allocation been trebled?

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Chairperson, Programme 3000, Activity 005 – Other Emoluments – K723,606 is meant to facilitate the payment of leave pay, commutation of leave days, terminal benefits and repatriation. The increase is due to the need to adequately provide for the issues I have mentioned in order to offset the entitlements as they become due.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3005, Activity 011 – State Lodge Farm – K320,000. I notice that the amounts for 2016 and 2017 are the same. What major activities are undertaken at that farm?

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 3005, Activity 011 – State Lodge Farm – K320,000, the provision is required to facilitate the smooth operations of State Lodge Farm, which serves as a sanctuary for livestock donated to State House and the institution’s source of fresh organic farm produce. Specifically, the allocation will facilitate the procurement of food supplements for livestock, veterinary services, movement of livestock, and buying of treated poles to reinforce the paddock, crawl and crush pen.

Sir, the provision has not been adjusted upwards to reflect the rising cost of goods and services due to restrictive budget ceilings.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 01/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 02 – (Office of the Vice-President – Human Resource and Administration – K43,466,345).

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, I rise to present the 2017 estimates of expenditure for the Office of the Vice-President.

Sir, I ask the hon. Members of Parliament, as they debate, to take into account the fact that this budget is being presented under the Government’s objective to restore macro-economic stability and Budget credibility, as pronounced by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, the Office of the Vice-President is a Constitutional office established under Article 110 (1) of the Republican Constitution, which states that:

“There shall be a Vice-President for the Republic who shall be the running mate to a Presidential candidate in a Presidential election. In addition to the powers and functions of the Vice-President specified in this Constitution or under any other law, the Vice-President shall perform such functions as shall be assigned to him/her by the President.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, in this regard, the following functions have been delegated to the Vice-President, as outlined in the Cabinet Handbook:

Prerogative of Mercy;

Honours and Awards; and

Parliamentary Planning.

Sir, the statutory functions of the Office of the Vice-President are derived from Government Gazette Notice No. 183 of March, 2012, and these are as follows:

Parliamentary Business;

Disaster and Drought Mitigation ; and

Resettlement.

Mr Chairperson, in addition, my office will continue playing its role of co-ordinating and encouraging multi-sectoral collaboration in order to realise the objectives set in the 2017 National Budget.

Sir, in terms of its organisational structure, the Office of the Vice-President comprises the following:

the Vice-President’s Bureau;

Department of Human Resource and Administration;

Parliamentary Business Division;

Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit; and

Department of Resettlement.

Mr Chairperson, the Office of the Vice-President has a Parliamentary Business Division that assists the Leader of Government Business in Parliament to co-ordinate Government Business in this august House and plays the pivotal role of liaison between the Executive and the Legislature in order to enhance accountability ‒

The Second Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE SECOND CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITEES in the

Chair]

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was explaining to the House that the Parliamentary Business Division assists the Leader of Government Business in the House to co-ordinate Government Business in this august House and plays a pivotal role of liaison between the Executive and Legislature in order to enhance accountability and promote good governance. In line with the mission statement of the office, the division facilitates the effective conduct of Government Business in Parliament by expeditiously processing responses to all Parliamentary oversight instruments, such as Action-Taken Reports, questions, Government Bills, Motions and ministerial statements. This ensures that the collective voice of the Executive arm of Government is heard.

Sir, in 2017, the division will continue with its core mandate of co-ordination of Government Business in Parliament, as stipulated in the new Constitution. Further, the division will strengthen its monitoring and evaluation of the implementation of the projects in the Action-Taken Reports, and provision of responses to questions and Government assurances.

Mr Chairperson, resettlement is administered by the Resettlement Department, whose objective is to resettle targeted citizens, both on voluntary and involuntary basis, in order to provide them with an alternative livelihood while uplifting the living standards of the rural communities. During the past three years, that is, from 2013 to 2015, the department has acquired ten blocks of land totalling 108,769 ha for resettlement purposes and the number of resettlement schemes under the department increased from eighty-six to ninety-two, with a total hectarage of 831,438. Demand for resettlement has continued to increase, with 11,296 applications received over the same period, 39 per cent of which were made by women.

Mr Chairperson, out of the 3,883 farm plots that we demarcated, 27 per cent were allocated to females while 302 km of access roads were cleared, 109 boreholes drilled and equipped with hand pumps countrywide, and five clinics and three classroom blocks were built in some schemes.

Mr Chairperson, the Resettlement Department Headquarters have been allocated K2,982,941 in the 2017 Budget, of which 14 per cent will be used to support infrastructure development in resettlement schemes while 22 per cent will be spent on general operations and administration. Given the allocated amount, and that resettlement is a cross-cutting and inter-ministerial activity, the department will depend on synergies derived from collaboration with other institutions in order to enhance service delivery, especially in the construction of schools and health infrastructure in the resettlement schemes.

Sir, in 2017, the activity focus will be on the acquisition of land for resettlements, construction of access roads, provision of water and facilitation of the issuance of title deeds to settlers in order to guarantee security of tenure under the National Land Titling Programme in the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, among others. Further, the department will start managing two more resettlement schemes, namely Maheba in Kalumbila District, the North-Western Province, and Mayukwayukwa, Kaoma District, the Western Province. The two schemes were created in 2014 by the Commissioner for Refugees in the Ministry of Home Affairs in collaboration with the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) under the Local Integration Programme for former refugees who have voluntarily opted to live in Zambia following the cessation of their refugee status.

Mr Chairperson, I urge all the hon. Members of this august House to support this budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to comment on the budget for the Office of the Vice-President. In doing so, I will restrict my remarks to matters of disaster mitigation.

Sir, I have had opportunities to interact with the Office of the Vice-President on disaster management issues in the context of reporting damages caused to public institutions by adverse weather, such as blown-off roofs of classrooms and teachers’ houses and destruction of entire structures.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Second Chairperson: Just continue, Hon. Dr Musokotwane.

Dr Musokotwane: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, is the policy statement for the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) yet to be made?

Hon. Members: Yes.

Dr Musokotwane: In that case, I will debate after it has been made.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: I can see Hon. Lubinda is enjoying himself and laughing like ‒

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Second Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, is Hon. Dr Musokotwane in order to talk about me and say I am enjoying instead of thanking me for waking him up from sleep? He stood and debated Head 19 when Her Honour the Vice-President just presented Head 02 and I corrected him in his own interest.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Second Chairperson: Indeed, Hon. Dr Musokotwane should concentrate on what Her Honour the Vice-President has presented when he rises to continue his debate.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, I have finished.

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, I thank all the hon. Members of Parliament who have supported this budget.

I thank you, Sir.

VOTE 02/01 – (Office of the Vice-President - Human Resource and Administration – K37,739,096).

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3107, Activity 007 – Parking Fees – K10,000.

Sir, this year, K19500 was allocated to this activity while only K10,000 has been allocated for next year. Why has the amount been reduced?

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Chairperson, the decrease is due to the reduced number of motor vehicles parked in the car parks.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3001, Activity 007 – Operations of the Vice-President’s Bureau – K30,000,000.

Sir, this year, K25,000,000 was allocated for this activity while, next year, K30,000,000 has been allocated. What activities does the bureau undertake?

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Chairperson, Her Honour the Vice-President outlined the activities that the Office of the Vice-President undertakes. This provision is required to meet the cost of running the Vice-President’s Bureau and the increase is due to the increased number of activities to be undertaken in the Bureau following the enactment of the new Constitution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbangweta: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3005, Activity 003 – National Institute of Public Administration – K1,000,000. This year, no amount was allocated to this activity, but K1,000,000 has been allocated to it in 2017. What will the money be used for?

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Chairperson, Programme 3005, Activity 003 – National Institute of Public Administration – K1,000,000 is a new programme that will facilitate the training of civil servants at the National Institute of Public Administration (NIPA). The provision is required to meet the cost of managing the institute.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, let me go back to my first question on the operations of the Vice-President’s Bureau. The hon. Minister’s answer was that the amount allocated for next year has been increased because of increased activities. However, my question was: What are those activities? Can the hon. Minister tell me an example of the activities?

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, the increase is a result of the constitutional changes that have taken place, which have given the Office of the Vice-President some extra responsibilities. That entails the recruitment of extra staff to execute the additional responsibilities.

I thank you, Sir.

Votes 02/01 and 02/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 02/04 – (Office of the Vice-President – Parliamentary Business Department – K2,744,308).

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3036, Activity 002 – International Parliamentary Union Conference – K8,457. This year, K20,000 was allocated for this activity. Why has a paltry K8,457 been allocated for next year?

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 3036, Activity 002 – International Parliamentary Union Conference – K8,457, the decrease is due to the reduced number of participants in 2017.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3051, Activity 016 – Parliamentary Planning Committee – K3,252. There is an allocation of K43,252 for this year, but only K3,252 for next year. Is the programme coming to an end?

Ms Chalikosa: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 3051, Activity 016 – Parliamentary Planning Committee – K3,252, yes, the activity is coming to an end and the decrease is due to the reduced of number activities.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3051, Activity 016 – Parliamentary Planning Committee – K3,252 and Activity 019 –Vice President’s Daily Parliamentary Folder – K4,494. What is the difference between the two activities?

Ms Chalikosa: Sir, Programme 3051, Activity 016 – Parliamentary Planning Committee – K3,252 is meant to meet the cost of arranging the Parliamentary Planning Committee (PPC) meetings while Programme 3051, Activity 019 –Vice President’s Daily Parliamentary Folder – K4,494 is meant to meet the cost of preparing the Vice-President’s Folder.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 02/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 19/01 – (Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit – Headquarters – K13,636,886).

The Vive-President: Mr Chairperson, the Office of the Vice-President is also charged with the responsibility of disaster management and mitigation. In that regard, during 2016, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) was allocated K12,228,458, which facilitated the implementation of a number of key programmes and activities in line with my office’s mandate. Notable among the programmes are:

the operationalisation of the Disaster Risk Management Framework and the Community-Based Disaster Risk Management Facilitation Manual in order to build community resilience and foster integration of disaster risk management efforts in the key sectors of the economy at the local level;

the development of a contingency plan to enhance preparedness and timely response to hazards in general;

the resettlement of internally displaced persons;

attending to emergencies through the activation of response and recovery action plans;

implementation of the relief food programmes in the districts identified in the 2015 and 2016 In-Depth Assessment Reports; and

stockpiling of assorted food and non-food items for timely response to disasters and rehabilitation of critical infrastructure, such as bridges, culverts and schools.

Sir, the programmes and activities implemented ultimately contributed to poverty reduction, attainment of social safety nets and sustainable social-economic development for vulnerable communities.

Mr Chairperson, all the successes scored by the DMMU were made possible by the unwavering support of various Government ministries and departments, the United Nations System, donors, the private sector and other co-operating partners, such as non-governmental organisations (NGOs), both local and international. Notwithstanding the successes scored during 2016, the department encountered the following challenges:

a lack of logistical capabilities in the form of specialised heavy equipment for emergency responses:

inadequate and untimely release of budgeted funds; and

a lack of participation of Members of Parliament in the District Disaster Management Committees (DDMCs).

Sir, for 2017, the DMMU has been allocated K13,636,886. The Government has opted to change the funding to the DMMU because disasters cannot be predicted and budgeted for accurately. With competing national requirements, the DMMU will be funded through contingency funds and realignment of funds from development programmes when disasters occur. The 2017 allocation will be used, among other activities, on the following:

office administration, in order to ensure the smooth running of the office;

operations and management of plant and equipment, in order to ensure timely response to disasters;

conducting of rapid and in-depth needs assessments;

responding to various emergencies to mitigate the impact of disasters;

implementing the relief programmes in various districts in order to mitigate food insecurity;

strengthening the monitoring and evaluation system in order to ensure prudent utilisation of resources and effective implementation of disaster risk management programmes;

strengthening the climate information components of the pilot programme for climate change and resilience; and

implementation of the revised Disaster Management Policy and Operations Manual in order to guide the disaster management process in the country.

Sir, the implementation of the above programmes will contribute to the uplifting of vulnerable households in various communities of our country.

Sir, in the implementation of programmes and activities in 2017, we anticipate the same challenges that it faced in 2016. In order to overcome the challenges, my office will utilise its resources prudently. Further, it will enhance co-ordination and collaboration with various stakeholders in its efforts to attain its objectives and goals.

Sir, with this background, I urge hon. Members of this House to support this Vote.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, I apologise for the earlier mishap, and I am grateful that you have given me the opportunity to discuss these relevant heads at an appropriate time.

Sir, from the outset, I wish to state that I support the budget …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: … because it is necessary. However, I have some important issues to raise.

Sir, I have interacted with the DMMU over the fixing of destroyed infrastructure, especially the classroom blocks whose roofs were blown off in Liuwa and, generally, I have been satisfied with the interactions. However, I have serious concerns over the issue of the distribution of relief food.

Sir, everyone knows that we have had serious droughts in the country in the last few years, which have hit the people of the Western Province particularly hard because the sandy soils of the province cannot hold moisture for a long time. So, if it does not rain even for just a week, the crops wither, leaving the people with serious food shortages.

Mr Chairperson, I am unhappy about the distribution of relief food because in Liuwa, most parts of Kalabo District and other parts of the Western Province, as soon as we report a drought, the Office of the Vice-President sends a team to go and assess the situation on the ground. The assessment is normally done quite quickly and efficiently, and one would expect the data collected to be kept in a database. Therefore, the people responsible for distributing the relief food at district level should know how many people need the relief food every month. To my surprise, that is not the case. Instead, the officers expect the vulnerable people, such as the hungry, elderly and disabled, to go to the Boma and apply for food relief every month when some of them can hardly walk. What is the point of making those people suffer? Why is the survey conducted in the first place? This is where I have a problem. The Government is not being pro-active.

Sir, another issue is that even when the people go to the Boma to apply, the first question they are asked is, “To which party do you belong?”

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: I am telling the truth. If people want to ignore it, that is up to them. That is the first question the District Commission (DC) and her staff ask. If these people do not belong to the Patriotic Front (PF), they are told that the relief food is for the PF members and sent away. Sometimes, they are forced to lie that they are PF members just for them to receive the relief food. On the other hand, once the ones responsible for this relief food hear that the applicants are PF members, they quickly give them the maize. This is particularly true of those with positions in the party, such as chairpersons and secretaries, because they are easily identified. So, they are given they maize to distribute. However, as they are transporting the maize, they start making demands, claiming that they are the ones who fought for the food. So, in the end, the deserving people end up getting very little or nothing none of the food.

Ms Livune: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: The party officials keep about three-quarters of those bags of maize for themselves, as they feel that they are the ones who are responsible for distributing maize and that they can, therefore, do what they want. Sometimes, the maize is given payment for work on roads. However, as I speak, some people who worked on roads in Liuwa Constituency last year have not been given the maize they were promised by PF officials to this day. Probably, the maize has already been consumed. So, the people are very angry. As if that was not bad enough, the maize meant for distribution to the vulnerable was used for campaign purposes by the PF during in the last election.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, again, I am telling the truth. If people do not believe it or they do not have ears, that is up to them. However, those who have should open them. The DC was the chief distributor of this maize and is the one who determined who got maize and who did not, and she allowed the party officials to collect the maize and keep it. Even as we speak, if you go to the homes of some party officials, you will find many bags of relief maize. So, relief food is necessary, especially for us in the Western Province, because the place is ecologically sensitive. Unfortunately, the manner in which the Government distributes the relief food is a disaster, and I think it explains why the PF lost so badly in the province. The people just said, “These people want to be voted in? Alright, let their maize vote for them.”

Mr Ndalamei: Yes! We used to tell them.

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, I think we should de-politicise the distribution of relief food. Whenever there is a need for relief food, the Government should use its machinery to collect data on who is in need and deliver the food. The moment the issue is politicised, it becomes a disaster. Very few people have benefitted from the many bags of the maize that were sent to the Western Province, especially in Liuwa Constituency.

Mr Mubukwanu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Second Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mubukwanu: Mr Chairperson, I reluctantly rise on this point of order.

Sir, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to mislead the House and go against the principles of debate by claiming that relief maize was distributed by Patriotic Front (PF) members when the Government distributes the maize through non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and churches?

I need your serious ruling.

Interruptions

The Second Chairperson: The hon. Member on the Floor must bear that point of order in mind as he debates. It is better to avoid raising issues that cannot be proved in this House. Let us be very careful about that.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your guidance. Unfortunately, some individuals like the truth while others, for various reasons, prefer not to tell their Government the truth.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I support this budget. However, it is important to understand that anyone can need relief and that it should, therefore, be de-politicised.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: The starving people should get relief food, which is financed by all of us through the taxes we pay. We should not use it as a campaign tool.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Chairperson, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) contributed almost 50 per cent to the loss of the Patriotic Front (PF) in Dundumwezi ...

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Sing’ombe: … by not responding to the challenges that the constituency faces, which are only two or three.

Sir, the Chizuni Bridge, which was constructed in 2000, was swept away by water two years later and I have written several letters to the DMMU about it since 2006. On 15^th March, 2016, I handed over a letter on the same to Her Honour the Vice-President.

Hon. UPND Member: Which one?

Mr Sing’ombe: The same one who is in this House. To date, I have not received a response to that letter. Further, last year, Their Royal Highnesses Chiefs Chikanta and Macha, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala and I invited the Government to meet the people at Chizuni Bridge and more than 2,000 people assembled, but no one from the DMMU attended the meeting.

Hon. UPND Members: Shame!

Mr Sing’ombe: Therefore, the meeting was called off.

Interruptions

Mr Sing’ombe: Once, a former Minister in the PF Government went to look for Chizuni Bridge but, to my shock, he could not locate it. After spending Government resources, the Minister could not pass through my office in Dundumwezi or that of my colleague, the hon. Member for Mbabala, and ended up failing to locate the road.

Mr Chairperson, when we say that the PF lost in Dundumwezi, ...

Mr Ng’onga: That is history.

Mr Sing’ombe: Can you keep quiet!

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Mr Sing’ombe: Can you keep quiet!

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

I will curtail you. Always speak through the Chair and ignore those who are trying to disturb you.

You may continue.

Mr Nkombo: Ignore the green horn.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Chairperson, I have all the power to sort that man out.

Interruptions

Mr Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Resume your seat.

Mr Sing’ombe: I can sort you out (Pointing at Mr Ng’onga).

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

I have curtailed your debate

May the hon. Member for Mwembezhi, take the Floor.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Mr Chairperson, disaster management is a very serious issue. Having experienced a disaster in my constituency, I have learnt serious lessons about disaster management. I have been to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) Offices and the issues that arose there were very serious.

Mr Chairperson, there is need for the hon. Minister of Finance to look at disaster management very seriously because ‒

Mr Sing’ombe left the assembly Chamber.

Mr Nkombo: Follow him outside (addressing Mr Ng’onga).

Laughter

Mr Second Chairperson: Order!

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Mr Chairperson, am I protected?

Sir, I am saying to the hon. Minister of Finance that disaster management is a very serious matter, and I have noted that K13,636,886 has been allocated for disaster management.

Mr Chairperson, there is the issue of contingency. When I visited the DMMU Offices, I was told that the funds had been slashed and that the line ministries, such as the Ministry of General Education, were given allocations for contingencies. For example, when a roof at a school is blown off, the Ministry of General Education is supposed to fund the rehabilitation. I feel that this is not the way to mitigate disasters. When a disaster occurs, how can the DMMU write to the Ministry of Education to deal with a problem in Mwembezhi? The DMMU should be funded fully so that when a disaster occurs, it does not have to be referred to the Ministry of Local Government, which is responsible for Government buildings. So, I request that we give more money to the DMMU and remove the bureaucracy of going to line ministries.

Mr Chairperson, I was told that there is a manual that DMMU staff follow in dealing with disasters. That manual provided that when a building’s roof is blown off, the DMMU could only provide roofing sheets, not cement. Who developed such a manual? Where do the people find the cement to build their houses with? Should they build their houses with mud so that the roofs are blown off again? What I am saying here is we should have serious people at the DMMU, not those who just cut and paste things and take to the hon. Minister to act. That is not right.

Sir, the money that has been allocated to the DMMU is very little and the hon. Minister of Finance should give it more money so that it becomes operationally autonomous. It should not rush from one office to another looking for money to attend to disasters. As I speak, there are buildings whose roofs were in blown off in Mwembezhi and the people do not know what to do. Instead of prioritising a school, the DMMU donated iron sheets to individuals. What should the pupils whose dormitories’ roofs have been blown do? The DMMU has said that the Ministry of General Education should attend to the problem, but the ministry already has many problems it has failed to sort out. Giving it another disaster will make it look like it is a disaster. That is a disaster.

Laughter

Mr Jamba: Mr Chairperson, what I am simply saying here is that disasters must be managed by the DMMU. If a bridge is washed away, we should not run to the Road Development Agency (RDA) to repair it. That is not disaster management.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabanda: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

The Second Chairperson: Hon. Member for Mwembezhi, please, continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Jamba: Sir, I am supporting the budget by saying that the amount allocated is very little. There is no need for someone to raise a point of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Jamba: Is he soliciting for a job?

Laughter

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Disaster management is a very serious issue and the DMMU should be supported by all of us by asking the hon. Minister of Finance to give it enough money. When I visited the offices, the people there looked helpless. They wanted to assist me but, they were constrained by the manual.

Mr Nkombo: Who designed the manual?

Laughter

Mr Jamba: Sir, we should increase the allocation to the DMMU so that it can do a better job …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: … and that the hon. Minister in the Office of the Vice-President is not stressed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba: When I go to her, she is supposed to give me a enough money for me to sort out the problems.

Sir, I do not want to talk a lot and give someone a chance to raise a point order. Bankhale che.

Laughter

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Mr Chairperson, I think that I have more jobs to do than my predecessor on the Floor. In any case, …

Mr Mutelo: What is your point of order?

Mr Nkombo: Start with your point of order.

Mr Kabanda: My point of order is …

Laughter

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Resume your seat.

Laughter

Mr Kabanda: Sir, I am on the Floor.

Laughter

The Second Chairperson: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Interruptions

Mr Kabanda: I am on the Floor.

The Second Chairperson: Hon. Kabanda, resume your seat.

Mr Kabanda resumed his seat.

The Second Chairperson: I allowed you to debate, not to raise a point of order. So, go ahead and debate.

Mr Mutelo: Debate!

Mr Kabanda: Mr Chairperson, I think that hon. Members are getting confused because they do not know what a disaster is.

Hon. Members: Ah!

The Second Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

The word ‘confused’ is unparliamentary.

Mr Kabanda: Mr Chairperson, I withdraw the word.

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: Use ‘turbulence’.

Interruptions

Mr Kabanda: Sir, I think there is a mix up; that hon. Members do not know what a disaster is.

Mr Nkombo: Ah!

Mr Kabanda: I think that the Office of the Vice-President should explain what a disaster is.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

The Second Chairperson: I hope those who will take the Floor to debate will only raise new points like Hon. Jamba did so that we allow more hon. Members to participate in the debate.

Mrs Fundanga (Chilubi): Mr Chairperson, I share the sentiments of my colleague who spoke immediately before me. Like him, I think that the DMMU is not duly supported and that most of the calamities that befall the country are a result of climate change. You can tell that in the last two years, here, in Africa, we have had a slowdown in economic growth due to disasters. The World Bank Report Africa’s growth rate at 4 per cent, and Zambia falls in that category.

Mr Chairperson, all the disasters, whether they happen in Kanyama or in Chilubi, need to be managed and mitigated. As I speak to you, I there are five schools in my constituency whose roofs were blown off and the children continue to learn in classrooms without roofs. As if that was not enough, we have a problem of low water levels in the lake because of inadequate rainfall, leading to people having to trudge distances of about 5 km through the mud to get on a ferry, boat or canoe. That is a matter that cannot be taken lightly. If you consider the K13 million that has been allocated to the DMMU against the size of our nation and the incidence of calamities, surely it is obvious that there is very little that the allocated money can do. Actually, I feel sorry for the people who run the DMMU because most us here represent rural constituencies and if we all stood up and narrated our situations, it would be clear that we need a lot of help from the DMMU and, if we all sought that help, the unit would be overwhelmed. So, let us be serious in supporting it in terms of resources, whether human or material, so that it can mitigate some of the problems without stress.

Sir, further, our constituencies have different calamities. In some areas, there are food shortages due to climate pattern change effects, such as inadequate or too much rainfall. In that regard, as the saying goes, prevention is better than cure. So, maybe, we should have a wing in the unit that would monitor the indicators of climate change before disasters strike.

Mr Chairperson, there is an allegation that the DMMU only helps people in Patriotic Front (PF) strongholds. That is possible but, sometimes, we should be more objective and look at the reasons the DMMU cannot help as it should. In this regard, I commend the Independent hon. Member who spoke earlier because we have to be very objective instead of always politicking. It can be very difficult for people to work if even when they have nothing, some people imagine that they and that they are reserving it for PF members.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate. My debate will only be as long as is necessary.

Sir, on the face of it, this budget looks like it deserves the unanimous support of this House. However, I think that we must go a little farther and look at the immediate situation from which we are coming so that we can help the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) to become more effective. In that regard, let me highlight a few things.

Mr Chairperson, we need to redefine the term ‘disaster’. It would appear that, these days, even the accumulation of garbage in Kanyama, for example, is considered a disaster and the hon. Minster in the Office of the Vice-President has to go there and look at the drainages that the council or local authorities should work on. Too many situations are called disasters, and I think the major problem is that we have failed to activate the institutions that are supposed to be executing these responsibilities. For example, we are in the rainy season and when there are floods, everyone will rush to the DMMU and claim that the floods are a disaster, yet we all know that the hot season is followed by the rainy season. Sometimes, when there is a road accident in some part of the country and ten people die, people call it a disaster. However, when an accident claims, say, fifty lives in another part of the country, it is not declared a disaster because there is no standard working definition of the term ‘disaster’. Often, in an area where there is likely to be an election or by-election, relief food is taken there even though there are other places where people are more in need of relief food and for a longer period. What is the relationship between an election and a disaster? Hon. Miyutu and I are aware of a truckload of relief food that was taken to Kalabo Central for registered voters on the eve of a ward by-election, yet there were people who were more vulnerable than those targeted.

Sir, Her Honour the Vice-President made reference to hon. Members of Parliament who do not attend District Disaster Management Committee (DDMC) meetings. However, Hon. Mweetwa and Hon. Sing’ombe, whose constituencies border mine, and I have never been invited to any such meeting and this is the case with most of the constituencies. The meetings are chaired by District Commissioners (DCs), who make sure that they held in secret. So, we need to reconstitute the committees. Currently, the DCs are insecure about the participation of Members of Parliament in DDMC meetings because they know that it could cause some hidden issues to be revealed. It is just like what happened to the participation of Members of Parliament in full council meetings. Eventually, we were removed from the councils.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: So, as long as the DCs continue to chair the DDMCs, you can rest assured that what we are talking about will continue to prevail and disaster relief will continue to be provided on partisan lines. Unfortunately, all the DCs are PF members and that is why they have no shame to politick.

Mr Nkombo: Bene Chanda Kabwe.

Mr Belemu: So, I urge Her Honour the Vice-President to take stock of why Members of Parliament do not attend the meetings. She should go through the records and see they have ever been invited either verbally or in writing to attend any of the meetings. Where relief food is concerned, even the request for information is usually made in the night. For example, the DCs will ask a headman PF who is a PF member and expected to favour them to give them a list of people who need relief food.

Sir, the other issue I want to talk about is that the operations of the DMMU are unfortunately not aided at district and, sometimes, provincial levels. Hon. Sing’ombe gave an example of Chizuni Bridge, which has been discussed repeatedly at both the district and provincial levels. Let me give another example. Kabanze Dam in Mbabala Constituency was washed off in 2012 and money for its repair was released by the DMMU at the national level. The unit informed me in writing but, to date, the dam has not been repaired. Every time we made a follow-up, we were told that the tendering process was in progress. However, it has been four years and the dam has not been repaired. The unit wants to call that a disaster and mitigate it, but how will it do it?

Sir, regarding the bridge, PF Minister who thought he was wise and wanted to inspect it without involving the area Member of Parliament failed to locate it. He did not even know the constituency in which it was located. One wonders why he did not go with the district officers or the area Members of Parliament if at all the Government wanted to intervene in that disaster. You may wish to note that the time the Minister made that failed visit was towards the 2015 Presidential By-Election and that was what motivated him to inspect the bridge. Unfortunately, he looked for it the whole day, …

Mr Nkombo: And did not find it.

Mr Belemu: … but did not find it. As I speak, the people across the bridge cannot access Macha Mission Hospital or the health post we built using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Also, because of the rains, pupils cannot access the nearest schools, which are on the other side. So, that situation ought to be taken seriously.

Mr Chairperson, Her Honour the Vice-President made reference to the resettlement of internally displaced people and we have seen disasters created by the Government. For example, it chased people who lived near a game park from their area. Now, it calls them internally displaced people and has told the DMMU to move in and assist them. Similarly, not too ago, some Government institutions displaced people from the land that is said to belong to the Office of the President, Special Division, yet the people had lived there for about forty years. The eviction was done in this rainy season and the victims are now called internally displaced people. In another case, some people who once lived at a fishing camp were said to be internally displaced on television and the DMMU had to move in to assist.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: However, the annual fishing ban is currently in effect. So, those people should not have been in the fishing camps in the first place. So, they are not internally displaced. In any case, the islands on which they were will soon be flooded.

Interruptions

Mr Belemu: So, we need to redefine clarify who an internally displaced person is in this country. As far as we have been told, this country is peaceful. So, how are people being internally displaced for them to warrant a Vote under the DMMU? The Government is creating them. So, they can be planned for correctly. If it decides to move people away from near a national park, it should plan for them in advance so that they do not become internally displaced.

Mr Mutale: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Question wanzi? Debate.

Mr Belemu: Mr Chairperson, by now, we should be moving towards the correct segmentation of areas. We know the areas that qualify for relief food, for example, when there are poor maize yields. When we have inadequate rainfall, even people who do not grow maize want to get relief food yet, even if we had a good rainfall pattern and they were given abundant fertiliser, they would not grow maize. So, why do they qualify to be given relief maize? Similarly, those who grow cassava should be given cassava when there is a poor yield. We should not allow everyone to claim relief food when there is a drought in only one part of the country.

Sir, relief food should not be distributed on party line. When the people of Mbabala, who grow maize, had poor yields, they cried for relief food and we kept seeing truckloads of maize from the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) warehouses in Choma going to areas where people do not even grow maize, but none went to our people. So, this Vote looks non-controversial, but I think that there is more to be said on the functions of the DMMU. We want Her Honour the Vice-President to call a disaster a disaster and ensure that there are uniform standards responses to disasters regardless of where they hit.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to add my voice to the debate on this very important Vote.

Sir, from the outset, allow me to agree with Hon. Belemu that we need to define “disaster”. Fortunately, the definition is there and I am sure that if Hon. Belemu cared to look at the Disaster Management Act No. 13 of 2010, he would find the definition there. Indeed, like he tried to define it, a disaster is only one if the affected community is not capable of coping with and come out of the impact a man-made or natural calamity. If people are hungry and do not have maize, but they have the money to buy maize, that will not be declared a disaster.

Mr Chairperson, I agree with Hon. Belemu that people who are displaced by an act of the Government must certainly be provided for and if he asked his colleagues who were in this House in 2008 and 2009, they would tell him that the people of Sichifulo underwent the scenario he painted. Upon being given the mandate to govern by the people of Zambia, the first thing that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government did was to redress that problem because it recognised the fact that the Government was responsible for mitigating the effects of any displacements it caused. So, the people of Sichifulo were taken care of by this caring Government.

Sir, in the recent past, we have heard about the internal displacement of people not by the Government, but by people who have claimed ownership of the land the displaced people had occupied. That has been achieved through judgments obtained from courts or the exercise of power and might. We have not forgotten the story about the displacement of 148 families in Namwala without any court order and we certainly have to provide for such people. This Government knows that people with the tenacity to evict others from lands still exist in this country and that is why we have to provide resources in the Budget for mitigating the negative impacts on people who will be displaced by those who satisfy their gluttony for land at the expense of poor and vulnerable Zambians.

Mr Chairperson, the matter of who deserves relief is very important and I agree with my colleagues on your left on that. I was privileged to be the Minister responsible for food and standing there (indicating the left), I stated that this Government was aware that some people were benefitting from relief food when they did not deserve it. They may not have access to food, but have the resources to buy it. That is why this Government settled on the alternative of making food available to the people through community sales.

Sir, Hon. Dr Musokotwane started his debate by commending the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) for its performance, admitting that the institution responded very quickly to disaster situations. Yes, he might have problems with those who deliver the relief because, in his perception, they are PF members. I think that was a slip of the tongue and that he did not mean that PF members actually distribute relief food because it is DMMU officers and members of the District Disaster Management Committees (DDMCs) who do. It was only in 2011 that I was fortunate to become a member of the Ruling Party. Before then, I was in the Opposition. However, as a responsible member of the Opposition, I made sure that I attended meetings of all the committees of which a Member of Parliament was a member. That is a responsibility of a responsible representative of the people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: I did not wait to be invited, but demanded to attend all meetings to which my office because waiting for an invitation is the same thing as saying that one would only go to Parliament on invitation. We see people come to this House, some of them just to slot in their cards. What they do after that, I will not mention.

Mr Chairperson, in 2010, while gathered in this House, we passed the Disaster Management and Mitigation Act, which has a very important provision. At that time, those of us on your right were on your left while some of the people on your left were on the right. One of them was once a Ministers of Finance. The law we passed provided for the establishment of the National Disaster Relief Trust Fund. However, it took Her Honour the Vice-President, under the instruction of His Excellency the President, and this gentleman (indicating Hon. Mutati), the hon. Minister of Finance, to operationalise the trust fund six years after it was established by this House. On this score, I agree with Hon. Jamba that the amount of money allocated to this Vote is too little. However, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Finance for operationalising the trust fund. During campaigns, we have heard people say they dug seventy boreholes and twenty this or that. Now, there is an opportunity for anyone of us who is benevolent to go to an official Government institution and put money in the trust fund so that the provision of relief services in the country is well co-ordinated. We want to make sure that those who genuinely want to contribute to the uplifting of the lives of those on whom disasters have befallen are facilitated by an institution established by this House instead of using benevolence for the purpose of winning cheap political gain.

Sir, those of us who have interacted with the DMMU will agree with Hon. Dr Musokotwane that the unit is highly responsive. It reacts very speedily. Even in Lusaka, there are some people who are afflicted by disasters and the DMMU does not ask the political party to which the victims belong. It attends to everyone who is affected by the disaster.

Sir, were it true that 50 per cent of the votes that we lost in any part of this country was attributed to the poor performance of the DMMU, I do not think that those who want to remove us from the Government would tell us that. So, those who are saying this are doing so because they know that the DMMU is effective. They may just be asking us to up the game, and that is what we will do, starting with what we have done.

Sir, let me end by appealing to all my colleagues to support this very important Vote because it will assist the internally displaced people and disaster victims. Remember that disasters are capable of affecting even those of us who, today, sit in privileged positions. So, ignoring this Vote is ignoring our insurance cover.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for affording me this opportunity to make some comments in support of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) Vote.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Justice has tried to elaborate …

Mr Nkombo: He has just tried?

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: … on the portfolio functions of the DMMU, and it is very important that hon. Members of Parliament understand the functions of this very important unit of the Government. Her Honour the Vice-President has itemised the achievements of the unit and the challenges it encountered during the performance of its functions.

Mr Chairperson, I had the opportunity to serve as Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office and was responsible for overseeing this very important unit. Indeed, the challenge that she mentioned, that is, the non-participation of Members of Parliament in the committees, is huge. Assessments are done at the district level, through the District Disaster Management Committee (DDMC), which consists of the stakeholders in the district. If hon. Members participated in the meetings of the DMCC, they would understand the distinction between a disaster and a damage, which probably needs a line ministry’s attention. For example, how can a bridge be a disaster for five years and you blame the DMMU? If people do not understand the structures of the Government, it is very difficult for them to access Government services. If you avoid the District Commissioner (DC), a Presidential appointee, and expect to go straight to Her Honour the Vice-President, it creates a challenge. The DMMU, has representation from the district level to the provincial level. That is why there are Provincial Disaster Co-ordinators (PDCs).

Mr Chairperson, if we continue to politicise everything, the people we represent here will be deprived of services. Sometimes, we hear people say that the distribution of relief food is done on partisan line. How can that be true?

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Were that true, people could have been dying in the Western Province, as I speak.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Kampyongo: The province has been hit by a lack of food for close to one year. How, then, can someone come here and say that we just give relief food to people belonging to a particular political party? Our colleagues need to be responsible and stop politicking because they still need the DMMU to serve their people. Let us not play political games here.

Hon. UPND Members: Ah!

Mr Kampyongo: We need to be serious.

Mr Chairperson, the Western Province, including ‘Luwa’ ‒

Mr Lubinda: Liuwa.

Mr Kampyongo: Is it Liuwa or Luwa?

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Liuwa!

Mr Kampyongo: Sir, Liuwa Constituency has been adequately assisted under difficult circumstances by the DMMU.

The Second Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

__________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progressed reported)

__________

The House adjourned at 1958 hours until 1430 hours on Friday, 2^nd December, 2016.

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