Tuesday, 13th December, 2016

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Tuesday, 13th December, 2016

 

The House met at 0900 hours

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

NATIONAL ANTHEM

 

PRAYER

 

________

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

 

KAPUTA DISTRICT WATER SUPPLY PROJECT

 

51. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Local Government:

 

  1. when the water supply project in Kaputa District commenced;

 

  1. how much money had been spent on the project as of 30th October, 2016;

 

  1. how much money was needed to complete the project;

 

  1. what the time-frame for the completion of the project was; and

 

  1. what had caused the delay in completing the project.

 

The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, the water supply and sanitation project in Kaputa District commenced on 21st May, 2013.

 

Sir, the money spent on the project is in the sum of K41,523,005.77 representing 40 percent of the contract sum.

 

Mr Speaker, the total contract sum for the project is K105,230,593.31. Therefore, K63,707,587.54 is needed to complete the project.

 

Sir, the total duration for the project is four years and seven months and is scheduled to be completed on 30th December, 2017 if funding is consistent.

 

Mr Speaker, the delay was caused by the change of water source from Choma River to Mwawe River. Works have also slowed down due to non-payment of K10,067,620.07 which the contractor is owed.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, the people of Kaputa have suffered for many years. Their water source has been a major cause of ailments. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, funds permitting, would he assure the people of Kaputa that he will be able to do his level best to ensure that this project is brought to completion. Hon. Minister is that your word to the people of Kaputa?

 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I am sure that by now everybody knows that there is a new Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection which was created to look at situations like the one in Kaputa and many other districts that face the same challenge. I am responding to this question because we are still in the transition phase and this budget falls under our ministry until 31st December, 2016. From 1st January, 2017 the new ministry will take over these projects. I am very sure that the new created Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection will take care of all our water issues in this country. We can see that there is good will and funding from our co-operating partners and the Government. The new ministry will be equal to the task. As we hand over to the Ministry of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection we will insist that they take extra care of this project in Kaputa District and that it should be completed. That will be my word and I know that the new ministry will confirm that I said so to them.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, I am aware that the Ministry of Finance has just released money to pay contractors, would the hon. Minister, be in a position to know if this contractor will also benefit from the said payments?

 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, we are talking with the Ministry of Finance that as we get payments for contractors, those contractors that provided services in the water sector should also benefit and they are many. We are still in talks with the Ministry of Finance; we know they have paid a lot of road contractors and those that constructed hospitals and schools. The Ministry of Finance is doing very well in paying off contractors but we are engaging them to see to it that those contractors in the water sector, who we owe a lot of money, I think the bill is about K170 million or so, are paid.

 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 

CHAMA POLICE STATION AND STAFF HOUSES CONSTRUCTION

52. Mr D Mumba (Chama North) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)        when the construction of Chama Police Station and staff houses would commence;

(b)        what the cost of the project was; and

 

(c)        what the time-frame for the completion of the project was.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, the construction of Chama Police station and staff houses will commence when the ongoing infrastructure projects are completed and when project funds are available.

 

Sir, I wish to inform the House that land has already been secured through the district council for construction of the said project.

 

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost of the project is K20,500,000.00.

 

Sir, the estimated time-frame for the completion of the project is eighteen months from the date of commencement.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 

_____________

 

MOTION

 

WAYS AND MEANS

 

The Minister of Finance (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now resolve into Committee of Ways and Means to consider the raising of Supply. I am a bearer of four messages from His Excellency the President recommending that these Motions which I now lay on the Table be proceeded with in this House.

 

Mr Mutatilaid the paper on the Table.

 

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, as a result of the Budget which I presented to this House on 11th November, 2016, it is necessary to introduce certain financial measures which are outlined in the Committee.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Mr Speaker, I thank the House for the support.

 

Questionput and agreed to.

 

__________

 

COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS

 

[THE FIRST CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

 

THE VALUE ADDED TAX ACT

 

The Minister of Finance (Mr Mutati): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Value Added Tax Act so as to provide for:

 

  1. the appointment of tax payers as agents to withhold value added tax on payments for the supply of goods and services;

                                                                            

  1. the abolition of the Value Added Tax Group Registration Scheme;

 

  1. the change of the validity period of an input tax claim to three months;

 

  1. the change of the due date for filing of returns and payment of tax; and

 

  1. matters connected with, or incidental, to the foregoing.

 

Madam Chairperson, the reason for the amendment of the Value Added Tax Act is to give effect to the various changes that are now represented in the Yellow Book.

 

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank the House for their unanimous support.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

THE INCOME TAX ACT

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Income Tax Act so as to:

 

  1. increase the pay-as-you-earn tax free threshold for individuals from thirty-six thousand kwacha to thirty-nine thousand, six hundred kwacha per annum;

 

  1. increase the pay-as-you-earn top marginal tax rate from thirty-five per cent to thirty-seven point five per cent;

 

  1. make it mandatory for all financial institutions to facilitate the acquisition of a taxpayer identificationnumber by an account holder;

 

  1. provide for the Kwacha/United States Dollar exchange rate to be used in transacting books of accounts;

 

  1. make it mandatory for a person changing ownership of a motor vehicle to obtain a tax clearance certificate;

 

  1. revise the turnover tax regime for persons carrying on business with an annual turnover of eight hundred thousand kwacha or less;

 

  1. increase the rate of tax for the advance income tax from six per cent to fifteen per cent;

 

  1. extend the charge of tax on rental income to statutory bodies;

 

  1. allow deductions on the skills development levy as an expense; and

 

  1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the forgoing.

 

Madam Chairperson, the reason for the amendment is to give effect to the measures that were announced so that they are represented properly in the Yellow Book.

 

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank the House for their support.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

THE SKILLS DEVELOPMENT LEVY ACT

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to introduce the Skills Development Levy Act so as to:

 

  1. provide to the imposition, payment and collection of the Skills Development Levy at the rate of 0.5 per cent of close emoluments; and

 

  1. matters connected with, or incidental to the foregoing.

 

Madam Chairperson, this Bill is being introduced so that it has presence in the Yellow Book.

 

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move.

 

Madam I thank the House for its support.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE ACT

 

Mr Mutati: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Customs and Excise Act so as to:

 

  1. align the first schedule to the 2017 harmonised coding system;

 

  1. revise the rates of carbon emission surtax and impose a 5 per cent surtax on selected imported items;

 

  1. increase customs duty on semi-processed oil;

 

  1. provide for advance ruling on origin of goods;

 

  1. revise the rates of customs and excise duty payable on certain goods; and

 

  1. provide for matters connected with, or incidental, to the foregoing.

 

Madam Chairperson, this Bill gives effect to the provisions that are being made in the Yellow Book.

 

I beg to move.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank the House for its support.

 

Question put and agreed to.

 

_____

 

HOUSE RESUMED

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

Resolutions reported.

 

Report adopted.

 

Question put and agreed to and Mr Speaker appointed the hon. Minister of Finance to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bills to give effect to the resolutions of the Committee of Ways and Means.

 

____

 

BILLS

 

FIRST READING

 

THE VALUE ADDED TAX (Amendment) Bill, 2016

 

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled the Act to amend the Value Added Tax Act.

 

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to a Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 20th December, 2016. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or indeed, amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

 

Thank you.

 

THE INCOME TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2016

 

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled an Act to amend the Income Tax.  

 

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 20th December, 2016. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the committee.

 

Thank you.

 

THE SKILLS DEVELOPMENT LEVY BILL, 2016

 

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled an Act to amend the Skills Development Levy Act. 

 

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 20th December, 2016. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the committee.

 

Thank you.

 

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE (Amendment) BILL, 2016

 

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled the Act to amend the Customs and Excise Act.

 

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 20th December, 2016. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the committee.

 

Thank you.

 

_____

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

 

[THE FIRST CHAIRPERSON in the

Chair]

 

VOTE 86 – (Ministry of Fisheries and LivestockHeadquarters – K642,686,689).

 

(Consideration resumed)

 

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Katambo): Madam Chairperson, kindly allow me to pass my sincere condolences to the passing on of our beloved former Deputy Speaker, Speaker, Mr Mkhondo Lungu.

 

Madam Chairperson, I really appreciate the contributions made by Hon. Dr Malama, Hon. Dr Imakando, Hon. Livune, Hon. Ndalamei and Hon. Michelo. The contentious issue was on the construction of the cordon line.

 

Madam, a strategy has been used to control and eradicate the contagious bovine pleural pneumonia (CBPP) from the province since time immemorial. Since then, and being a listening Government, there is need for us to hold consultative meetings and sensitise the communities, which my ministry has already started doing. Some stakeholders have expressed interesting in having the cordon line erected while others have not agreed that idea and have opposed to the strategy.

 

Madam Chairperson, our ministry will pursue this matter and see how the implementation of the cordon line could be done.

 

Madam Hon. Livune also brought up issues concerning the aquaculture products in Kazungula. Yes, we agreed with the hon. Member that there is potential of fishing farming in Kazungula especially in Kambova and  Kasiya areas, and that there is already a market for fish products in Livingstone. I would like to indicate that we cannot wait as a country to be the net exporter of fish by 2020.

 

Madam Chairperson, there were also issues on the challenging faced by the veterinary assistants. I want to inform the House that the Government is aware of the challenges that the veterinary officers are facing. The Government is, therefore, doing everything possible as to address these challenges.

 

Madam, there was also the issue concerning animal census. As a ministry, we carry out a livestock census which usually gives us the provisional of the baseline data for use in constructing reliable sampling firms which in turn can be used to collect detail statistics more frequently and regularly.

 

Madam Chairperson, on the issue of the construction of the dip tanks and the water points, I wish to inform the House that the Government has embarked on the intensive programme to construct dip tanks and dams and will continue to roll out the programme in 2017 to the all parts of the country.

 

Madam, Hon. Michelo for Bweengwa Constituency raised some concerns about the exportation of maize grain. We take note of the advice that the Government should first meet the local demand before exporting to neighbouring countries. Again, the hon. Member should bear in mind that the maize grain permits are issued by the Ministry of Agriculture in consultation with the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

 

Madam Chairperson, kindly allow me to thank all hon. Members who debated and those who debated in silence. I humbly ask all of them to support my ministry for the budget allocation of 2017.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Madam First Chairperson: Order!

 

I want to make an appeal to all hon. Ministers that as you are all aware, we are behind schedule. I know that you are all effective hon. Ministers. Going forward, I would like to request you to try to be as brief as possible in your winding up so that we can move on and conclude the business. I know that you are effective, so, you will respond in your actions as you implement those programmes.

 

Votes 86/01, 86/02, 86/03, 86/06, 86/07, 86/08, 86/14, 86/15, 86/16, 86/17, 86/18, 86/19, 86/20, 86/21,     

 

86/22, 86/23, 86/24, 86/25, 86/26, 86/27, 86/28, 86/29, 86/30 and 86/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 86/32 − (Ministry of Fisheries and LivestockLusaka ProvinceProvincial Agriculture Coordinating Office – K4,357,987).

 

Ms Chonya (Kafue): Madam Chairperson, certainly, the supersonic speed that we are moving at today just shows that we are not going to do justice to this process.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Chonya: Nevertheless, I have a concern with Programme 1002, Activity 003 – Zambia Agriculture and Commercial Show. In relation to that budget line, I just wanted to make a general comment and observation …

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

Are you commenting or asking a question?

 

Ms Chonya: My concern is that there is no allocation for this activity in 2017. Therefore, I wonder how we are going to undertake this particular activity, which I think is crucial for this ministry. I have also noticed in other budget lines that we have some ridiculous small amounts like K762 …

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

You cannot use that word in here, Ms Chonya.

 

Ms Chonya: Madam Chairperson, well, let me replace it with some amounts that do not make sense in terms of programme implementation …

 

Interruptions

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

Ms Chonya, you obviously do not have a question.

 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

 

Ms Chonya: Alright, but please take not of my observation on that activity.

 

Vote 86/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Votes 86/33 and 86/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 86/36 – (Ministry of Fisheries and LivestockMuchinga ProvinceProvincial Agriculture Coordinating Office − K3,895,552).

 

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Chairperson, why do we not have Vote 86/35? In other instances, you have been mentioning why a Vote is not there, but you have not said anything on this one.

 

The First Chairperson: There was an explanation given earlier that when we have a Head missing, it is because it has moved to another ministry. Remember that there are two ministries for the agricultural sector, i. e Ministry of Agriculture and Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock. We are now dealing with the fisheries and livestock aspect. So just take note of that. I mentioned this at the beginning. That this why there are some heads that are missing. So let us make some progress.

 

Vote 86/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 86/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 65 – (Ministry of Higher Education – K1,454,427,101).

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Members, as the hon. Minister is preparing to make her policy statement, please note that this ministry’s estimates are not in the main Yellow Book. Instead, there is a booklet that is separate from the Yellow Book. This is the booklet (holding up the document). So I hope that hon. Members will refer to this booklet.

 

The Minister of Higher Education (Prof. Luo): Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank you most sincerely for according me this rare privilege to address this august House to present a policy statement on the Ministry of Higher Education. This policy statement will guide the directions and operations of the Ministry of Higher Education in 2017.

You will recall that in his inaugural speech to this House, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu indicated that the country was at the verge of a transition and landmark decisions have to be made to move this country forward. His Excellency also made pronouncements that placed the Ministry of Higher Education at the core of development processes of this country.

 

Madam Chairperson, there is need to develop the human resource platform with appropriate skills upon which this country’s development agenda will be anchored. Furthermore, a human resource development agenda plus a thriving research, technology, innovation and development programme will be the preoccupation of my ministry in 2017 and beyond.

 

Before I proceed with my address, allow me to remind this august House of the mandate that is bestowed upon the Ministry of Higher Education. My ministry has the responsibility for higher education, science, technology, innovation as well as technical education, vocational and entrepreneurship training. To achieve this, the ministry has been mandated to:

 

  1. formulate and implement higher education, vocational education and training as well as science and technology policies;

 

  1. set and enforce standards and regulations, licensing supervision and provision of higher education and skills development; and

 

  1. promote the application and safe use of science, technology and innovation.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is a known fact that skills and knowledge are the driving forces of economic growth and social development for any country. Therefore, developing the skills and competencies of our people is key to fostering development and progress in Zambia.

 

The 2017 Budget is very significant indeed because it has come at a time when the country is finalising the Seventh National Development Plan (7thNDP), which is proposing an integrated multi-sectroral approach to development. The 2017 Budget, therefore, will set the pace and foundation upon which the 7th NDP will be launched and implemented.

 

Before I venture into presenting the Estimates of Expenditure for 2017, allow me to outline the performance and achievements made by my ministry in 2016.

 

Achievements of 2016

 

Madam Chairperson, I wish to remind the august House that my ministry is one of the two ministries piloting the Output Based Budget (OBB) which focuses on realisation of results and clearly measures the allocation of resources against the intended outputs. I must hasten to mention that in this debate, we will be looking at numbers as well as quality. In 2016, the programme pillars for the OBB were; university education, skills development, science, technology and innovation and management and support services.

 

The main policy drive for my ministry in university education during 2016 was to improve quality and increase equitable access to university education. To this end, the ministry was tasked by this House to achieve increase the number of school leavers entering universities to 444,000 learners and increase the number of bed spaces in public universities by 9,600 over the next three years, against the approved budget allocation. Despite the financial challenges facing the country in general, my ministry made progress towards these targets. The number of students who entered universities increased from 36,700 to 39,330 during 2016 and the number of bed spaces in public universities was increased by 640 bed spaces through the completion of students’ hostels at Robert Kapasa Makasa University.

 

As stated earlier, achieving this target was an onerous task, one that my ministry was determined to achieve nonetheless. My ministry therefore, did institute measures, strategies and interventions for us to be able to register this progress in 2016 and these interventions were mainly focussed on infrastructure development and quality and equitable initiatives.

 

To increase access to university education, my ministry continued the construction of Robert Kapasa Makasa University, Paul Mushindo, Palabana and King Lewanika universities as well as the mobilisation of contractors at the FTJ Chiluba University. Additionally, the construction of students’ hostels at the University of Zambia (UNZA), Copperbelt University (CBU) and Mulungushi University as well as other expansion works at Kwame Nkrumah, Palabana, Chalimbana, and Mukuba universities also continued during this period.

 

Loans and Scholarships Board

 

Madam Chairperson, my ministry also instituted another intervention that did not only focus on access to higher education, but on the equitable distribution of this access. The ministry enacted the Higher Education Students Loan and Scholarship Act which provides for a sustainable financing mechanism for learners. This Act provides the legal framework for the operationalisation of the student loans and scholarship funds. Through its operationalisation, the ministry is in the process of establishing mechanisms for loan administration and recoveries including assessments of skill sets that are required in Zambia and those that are depleted, establishment of a tracking as well as monitoring and evaluation mechanism for 2017. This will continue to be part of the effort to put in place a self-sustaining financing mechanism in the long run that will benefit as many learners as possible. The enactment of this piece of legislation is one of the major milestones achieved by my ministry in 2016.

 

Higher Education Authority and the Zambia Qualifications Authority

 

Madam Chairperson, in order for us to look at quality and equity, we put in place a university education authority which was established in 2015 and enhanced its oprationalisation in 2016. This action was prompted by the fact that Zambia had no regulatory framework to guide the setting of standards and regulation of university education. Subsequent to the establishment of this regulatory body, the country now has thirty-six recognised and dully registered universities which will undergo an accreditation process to further enhance quality in these institutions. This body will also continue monitoring to ensure that standards are upheld.

 

During 2016, my ministry enhanced the operationalisation of the Zambia Qualifications Authority in order to curb proliferation of qualifications both local and foreign at all levels of our education system. This has resulted in the regulation of qualifications in the country and through the Zambia Qualifications Framework, qualifications from Zambia can be pitied against the qualifications in the region. In order to implement the above stated interventions, my ministry allocated 81 per cent of the total budget for the ministry of Higher Education to university education. This translates into K939 million and out of this amount, K875 million was funded. 

 

Madam Chairperson, I want now to turn to skills development. Skills development is critical to the development process of any country. Studies have actually shown that the critical mass of skills in the labour force of any developed country should be at least standard 25 per cent of the entire labour force. Unfortunately, in Zambia, this only stands at 14 per cent. Consequently, the enhancement of skills development for our labour force is critical for the social economic development of our country.

 

It is for t his reason, Madam Chairperson, that the main focus of my ministry in the 2016 Budget was to increase access to Technical Education and Vocational Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) college education, and therefore, improve the component of TEVET skills in the labour force.

 

Madam Chairperson, at the onset of 2016, my ministry was tasked with the following targets under skills development:

 

  1. increasing access to TEVET for 45,000 learners;

 

  1. constructing of at least two trades training institutes in 2016; and

 

  1.  improving the pedagogical skills of lectures in TEVET.

 

To achieve this target, the ministry implemented a number of interventions which included infrastructure development and improved models for delivering learning such as open, distance and flexible learning initiatives.

 

Prof. Luo drank some water.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Prof. Luo: Yes, I need to drink some water.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Prof. Luo: Who is questioning my drinking of water?

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Government Member: Mwebeni ati akafwa na Tsetse fly!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Ema drinking water aya!

 

Prof. Luo: Madam Chairperson, may I add one grave site so that the people who question all the time can be buried there.

 

Mr Mwale: Hear, hear! Leave the young lady alone!

 

Prof. Luo: Madam Chairperson, I wish to report to this august House that my ministry increased access to TEVET for learners with total enrolments of 38,280 students as of December, 2016 from 36,124 in 2015.

 

My ministry will soon complete the construction of Isoka and Kalabo Trades schools which both stands at 95 per cent in terms of works done. Only minor external works are remaining.

 

Mr Mwale: Mwaona manje!

 

Prof Luo: In addition, the construction of Mwense and Sesheke Trades Institutions whose works stands at 85 per cent, while Lundazi and Mporokoso Trades have both progressed beyond 70 per cent completion.

 

Madam Chairperson, my ministry working with development partners equipped a total of twenty-six trades training institutions with state of the art equipment in automotive and electrical engineering during 2016. This was aimed at improving quality of training and to ensure that youths are equipped with requisites lifelong skills that will enable them not only to self-employ but also to be able to employ other youths.

 

Additionally, continuous review of the curriculum by Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) to align it to the aspirations of industry also continues to play a pivotal role in improving quality and training in the country. Through this process, Madam Chairperson, industry is also accorded an opportunity to participate in the training.

 

My ministry was allocated K121.5 million to skills development but only K62 million was released.

 

Madam Chairperson and fellow Parliamentarians, I would now wish to talk about science, technology and innovation.

 

As espoused in the 2030 Vision, the Africa Vision 2063, and the tenets of sustainable development goals, science technology innovation is envisaged to take centre stage and serve as the driving force for national development in order for the country to compete globally.

 

In this regard, the ministry is positioning itself to use science and technology as a tool for transformative development agenda set out in this country’s various development documents.

 

Madam Chairperson, during 2016, the ministry set the following targets in science and technology:

 

  1. Development of two research and development products;

 

  1.  Commercialising five products; and

 

  1.  training at least forty-five scientists and researchers in the area of national strategic interest.

 

To this end, a total of four products, so far, have been successfully commercialised and are on the market whilst thirty-six researchers have so far been trained and an additional ten researchers are currently undergoing training.

 

Madam Chairperson, the equipping of the National Remote Sensing Centre is underway with K15 million planned for 2016 on equipment for the institution. Additional equipment is budgeted for 2017 and is also envisaged through the bilateral support from development partners.

 

Madam Chairperson, all these gains I have outlined have been achieved under a very difficult economic environment and they just go to show my Government’s commitment and resolve to develop this country …

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Prof. Luo: … and improve the livelihoods of our people despite seemingly insurmountable challenges.

 

I have a grave yard for you!

 

Going forward, Madam Chairperson, …

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Minister, we do not want anyone to die.

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: Not even the ones who questions.

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: So you should have no grave yard for any one.

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: You may continue, please.

 

Mr Mwale: Leave the young lady alone!

 

Prof. Luo: Madam Chairperson, my Government is even more resolved to ensure that the service delivery due to our people is honoured and that their livelihoods have improved. As such, in 2017, my ministry has set out to continue and build on the gains registered in 2016 and ensure that the long-term go of making Zambia a middle income prosperous country are realised.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me now come to the 2017 Estimates of Expenditure. My ministry in 2017 will continue pursuing the objectives and goals set out in the 2017-2019 Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) and will continue to deliver on its mandate through forming programmes. Once again, it will be:

 

  1. university education;

 

  1. skills development;

 

 

  1. science technology and innovation; and

 

  1.  management and support services.

 

To be able to implement these programmes, my ministry has been allocated K1.454 billion in 2017 compared to K1.155 billion in 2016. This reflects an increase in the allocation of the budget by 25 per cent from the 2016 Budget. Out of this allocation, 65 per cent will be given to university education, while 27 per cent will be given to skills development, 5.1 per cent will be science technology and innovation and 1.8 per cent has gone to servicing the support functions of my ministry.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me focus on university education for 2017. My ministry in 2017 will continue to build on the gains of 2016 and will in this regard continue to expand infrastructure at our public universities. The construction of 9,600 bed space for accommodation at University of Zambia (UNZA), Copperbelt University (CBU) and Mulungushi University will be targeted to be completed by 2017.

 

In addition, the procurement processes for the three university colleges in Katete, Kabompo and Nalolo have reached an advanced stage and construction is planned to commence in 2017 with the support also of our development partners.

 

Furthermore, expansion works at Kapasa Makasa, Chalimbana, Kwame Nkrumah and Mukuba universities will continue. In order to undertake all these projects in this sector, my ministry has been allocated K290 million in the 2017 Budget.

 

Madam Chairperson, the three universities of education at Chalimbana, Kwame Nkrumah and Mukuba, have been undergoing an upgrading process that has been allocated with an additional K5 million each to do with all personnel related obligations and provide for a seamless transition.

 

The Ministry of Higher Education has also increased allocation to the Higher Education Authority and the Zambia Qualification Authority to enable them to become fully operational in 2017. The increase in allocation is envisaged to enable the two institutions enforce standards and assure quality. During this period, we also expect that these two institutions will also migrate to strategies that other institutions are using all over the country where the universities also participate in some of the financing.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Higher Education has allocated K5 million to enable the establishment of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Scheme. Contained in this establishment is a tracking system as well as a monitoring and evaluation system that will set the platform for the establishment of the Loan Disbursement and Recovery Framework.

 

Madam Chairperson, in 2017, K310 million has been provided for student financing in order to provide for a smooth transition. This allocation will be augmented by recoveries from students under the recovery framework which will be put in place by the ministry. Additionally, the Government will in 2017, be working to establish new financing models that will review the way public universities are currently being financed. It is envisaged that this new model, like most institutions all over the world, will gradually relieve the Government from 100 per cent financing of universities. Some of the aspects of these new financing models will be leveraging from consultancies, research and corporate interaction with the private sector and university alumni. Since most of us sitting in this room are university alumni, we should get ready.

 

Skills Development

 

Madam Chairperson, to demonstrate our commitment to improving the livelihood of the youth in this country, the Government has identified skills training as an avenue through which the youth can be empowered to posses lifelong skills, create wealth and improve their livelihoods. The Ministry of Higher Education has demonstrated this commitment by putting in place a sustainable financing model through the Human Resource Skills Development Levy which has been introduced. This will allow the ministry to increase the allocation to skills development from K121, 296,339 to K403,626,652 in 2017 and improve quality and relevance of training.

Madam Chairperson, as earlier outlined, skills development is the bedrock of any developing economy and the need to improve composition and quality of skills in our labour force cannot be overemphasised. To this end, the ministry will be documenting a skills need catalogue that will itemise areas of national skill needs. This is a task that will require the participation of all of us, including the private sector. In this regard, I wish to take this opportunity to encourage the private sector to take keen interest in the operationalisation of this levy.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Higher Education will continue with the construction works at Mwense, Mporokoso, Lundazi and Sesheke. It is envisaged that these institutions will be completed by 2017. Furthermore, expansion works through the construction of additional hostels in Petauke and Chipata will continue in this regard. A total of K53,621,700 has been allocated to complete these projects.

 

Madam Chairperson, to improve quality of training, the Ministry of Higher Education has targeted upgrading of lecturers’ skills and providing state of the art equipment to trades training institutions across the country. To this end, a total of K6 million has been earmarked for the equipment in 2017. Additionally, the ministry has increased operational grants to institutions from K53 million to K69 million in order to improve service delivery in the area of training. The ministry has gone further to provide for the dismantling of arrears in Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) institutions in order to make them more efficient and economically viable entities.

 

Madam Chairperson, in order to improve students’ welfare as well as increase access to training for the most vulnerable, the TEVETA bursary was revised upward with an increase of K8 million. This increase is targeted at providing increased access to training for the vulnerable and underprivileged youth in our country.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

 

Science, Technology and Innovation

 

Prof. Luo: Madam Chairperson, Zambia is at the stage of finalising the Seventh National Development Plan which takes an integrated multi-sectoral approach to development. The document espouses the development aspirations of the country through diversification and value addition. This process places science and technology at the core of the agenda. In this light, the Ministry of Higher Education will be focusing on research that enhances the utilisation of locally viable resources through technology improvements and value addition. To achieve this, the ministry has increased the allocation to the Strategic Research Fund and the Technology Business Development Fund. These two funds are earmarked to drive the research for transformational technologies and the commercialisation of these technologies.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Higher Education also plans to commence the establishment of the Nuclear Research Centre which will guide research in nuclear technology in the country. This is in line with the presidential initiative pronounced by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, to explore nuclear energy as an alternative source to hydropower for the country.

 

Madam Chairperson, in 2017, the priority for the Ministry of Higher Education will therefore be:

 

  1. rehabilitation and upgrading of infrastructure required for training in science and technology and at research and development institutions through support from development partners;

 

  1. building and sustaining human resource capacities and capabilities; and

 

  1. promoting developmental enterprises that use outputs from science and technology and research and development activities.

 

To attain these goals, the sector hopes to strengthen linkages between productive sectors and science and technology institutions.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Government in 2017, intends to harness partnerships with regional and international development partners in order to take full advantage of the advancements made in other countries that can work well for our country. To this end, the Ministry of Higher Education has allocated K2,400,000 as counterpart financing for ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Prof. Luo: ... support to projects and programmes under the Southern African Service Centre for Climate Change and Adaptive Land Use (SASCCAL).

 

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude my address to this august House ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Prof. Luo: ... I wish to draw your attention to the sentiments expressed by the hon. Minister of Finance during his Budget speech that this was a private sector driven Budget. In the same vein, I wish to appeal to all the stakeholders in the various portfolio mandate areas of the ministry to be part of this budget execution by contributing to the achievements of the deliverables set out in this document.

 

Madam Chairperson, the impetus is on all of us to make a change in this sector. The Government is cognisant of the fact policy reforms will be necessary in order to address the challenges facing our country. Thus, a lot of time will be spent reforming the Ministry of Higher Education. I want everyone, especially those working in institutions of higher learning, to get ready for these reforms. Hon. Members of Parliament and other stakeholders should join hands and make these reforms a reality so that this country can have a critical mass and the skill sets required to drive our economy.

 

Madam Chairperson, with the very few words ...

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

 

Prof. Luo: ... I thank you.

 

Laughter

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Madam Chairperson, I will preface my comments on the Budget for higher education with a statement from the out-going President of Ghana, Mr Dramani Mahama …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Prof. Lungwangwa: …because it is relevant to higher education. Dramani Mahama said, “If I should ever make a come back to politics, the lessons I have learnt should serve as the moral code which will guide how I guide myself. I have learnt that the success or failure of a leader depends on the kind of people he or she surrounds themselves with. I have now realised rather, too late, that if I had kept the likes of Ben Dotsei Molar and Dr Raymond Atugaba around me, they would have injected some semblance of sanity into the presidency and given that high office an aura of respectability and decency. The praise-singing sycophants who act on the dictates of their stomachs are only specialised at telling you what you want to hear. Unfortunately, I did not listen to the voices of reason.”

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Prof. Lungwangwa: Madam Chairperson, this is the tragedy of Africa and we need to serve Africa through higher education.

 

Madam Chairperson, listening to the policy statement of the hon. Minister of Higher Education, it is very clear that we have a problem as a nation. This is a very highly professional sector …

 

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

 

Prof. Lungwangwa: …for which we need sober minds and serious attention. I have a few comments to make. The hon. Minister has stated that there is need for policy reform in higher education. Indeed, that is very true and the starting point should be policy itself. We need a clear policy for higher education because what we are operating within is the 1996 policy document. “Educating the future” was written in 1996 and it is the first ever comprehensive policy document for our country. All these things we are talking about such as higher education authority, qualifications framework, student loans and models of financing higher education were put in that document. Of course, what we have been doing over the past twenty years is operationalising that document. Now is the time to rethink the direction of higher education in line with the challenges of the 21st Century.

 

Madam Chairperson, much of the private sector involvement in higher education is a disaster for this country because we have people who rise in a day or two, establish an institution and call it a university. That, definitely, is unacceptable. Someone cannot rise today and call whatever they have in their mind a university. A university is a very special institution that ought to be protected because it deals with human resources for the development of the nation. Today in our country, we have situations where institutions were established yesterday and tomorrow, they are offering master’s degrees and doctorates of philosophy (PhDs). We cannot do that. You will find that those PhDs are taught by people with Bachelor’s Degrees.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Even Grade 7 certificate holders!

 

Prof. Lungwangwa: Madam Chairperson, this is what is happening in our private universities. Even the University of Zambia (UNZA), which is now more than fifty years old, some faculties of disciplines in that university are not offering PhDs. How come that an institution which was established yesterday is offering master’s degrees and PhDs? Where on earth can that happen? That is why the Higher Education Authority (HEA) was set up and put in the 1996, “Educating our Future” policy document. When Professor Kelly, Professor Tembo and I were writing that document at the River Motel (Rimo) in Kafue, we were envisaging that in twenty years time, we shall have people investing in higher education offering universities. We thought that these would need guidance, control and quality assurance from HEA. We did so in order for the HEA to guide and serve the nation from those who are seeking their fortunes through university education.

 

Madam Chairperson, we cannot have a situation where somebody gets a bachelor’s degree, master’s degree and doctorate degree within five years and this person is occupying a higher position in Government. That is impossible.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

 

Prof. Lungwangwa: We are doing a disservice to our nation. I think this is very important. Kenya and other countries are very strict. The Higher Education Commission (HEC) in Kenya, before somebody establishes a university, they go through a rigorous system of project assessment. It takes years to establish a university. So, let HEA do its work.

 

Madam Chairperson, the problem with this Budget is stagnation, in terms of financing. In 2015, the Budget for the Copperbelt University (CBU) in terms of Student Loan and Bursary Award was K22,001,746 and K25,890,692 was released. The Budget for the University of Zambia (UNZA) was K49,005,197 and K52,703,692 was released in 2015.  The University Infrastructure was allocated K650 million and only K335,276,440 was released in 2015.

 

Madam Chairperson, in 2016, we had a Budget of K330 million and K335,276,440 was released. In 2017, we will have K290,962,938 for University Infrastructure and clearly, we will not get all that. We do not know how much will be released. That is very serious, in terms of actual releases to the Ministry of Higher Education for university infrastructure development. No wonder, we have other institutions such as the King Lewanika University which this Government started because of the allocations that are coming. The Budget looks high but the actual allocations are low. Under the operations of the universities, the Budget for CBU was K63,787,433 and the actual allocation was K47,840,574 in 2015. In 2016, the Budget for CBU operations was K63,787,433 and the actual allocation was K47,840,574.  In 2017, the Budget for operations will still be K63,787,433 for operations. We do not know how much will be released.

 

 The Budget for operations at the University of Zambia (UNZA) for 2015 was K156,606,429. The actual allocation was K117,454,822. This year, 2016, the Budget was K156,606,429. What was actually released was K117,454, 822. Next year, we still have K156,606,429, but we do not know what will actually be released. It may be lower.

 

The Budget for the Mulungushi University in 2015 was K20,633,858. What was actually released was K15,475,394. This year, the Budget was K20, 633,858. What was actually released was K15,475,394. We still have a Budget of K20,633,858 for next year.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is very clear that we have stagnated in this sector. It is no wonder, therefore, that in their document, they are saying that they want a new model of financing our university education. The model is available. Since independence, we have been following a model of public universities being just that and supported financially by public resources. The sectors were identified – Staff Development; Operations of the University and Current Expenditure; Research and Development and Capital Investment. This is what we were doing from 1966 when UNZA was established.

 

Madam Chairperson, this model of financing was upset by the rate of return analysis of the 1990s under the Structural Adjustment Programme (SAP) where higher education was seen as a private investment of an individual and much of the funding should be along the line of cost sharing.

 

Madam Chairperson, yes, we responded to this. For those of us who were managing UNZA, it was painful and the reason we went to the extent of what you are seeing now as the East Park Mall. This was our effort of trying to raise money locally within the university.

 

Madam Chairperson, when I became Deputy Vice-Chancellor of UNZA, I wondered how money could be raised money given the stagnated allocations from the Government. What came up was the idea to demarcate UNZA land and engage into a proposal for a Public Private Partnership. We envisaged the establishment of a business centre. The land where the East Park Mall is located was demarcated into the centre for business for the university. Of course, other areas for staff housing, student hostels and the auditorium were demarcated. The idea was that UNZA could raise money out of that effort.

 

Madam Speaker, it is very difficult. We engaged in parallel programmes and research consultancies as well as outsourcing business activities of the university and the revival of the Lyempe Farm. However, the amount of money realised from this was very little.

 

Madam Chairperson, what is important is to review our commitment to higher education and this is where the Ministry of Finance comes in. This is what countries that are making a significant improvement in higher education on the continent are doing: The Ministries of Higher Education and Finance have to work hand in hand and strengthen support to higher education, research and skills development. The Government has to come up with a strong position that human capital formation and development is the key that will unlock our gates to development. This is what Mozambique and Ethiopia are doing and we should learn from this.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Madam Chairperson, ...

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1045 until 1100 hours.

 

[THE FIRST CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]

 

Mrs Chonya: Madam Chairperson, I would like to start by acknowledging the policy direction that the hon. Minister has put across on the Floor of the House. I would like to say that if the things he said were done, we would attain great strides in improving our education sector, particularly the higher education level.

 

 I will, therefore, restrict my observations to the component on university education and emphasise on the need for us to be action oriented when we make policy pronouncements. More often than not, we have good speeches made, but no actual implementation.

 

Madam Chairperson, I have some data on the ranking of universities in Africa where our own UNZA, which is the number one at country level, was ranked fifty-five in Africa and 2630 globally.

 

Madam Chairperson, if, for argument’s sake, we took an average of one university in every country in Africa, UNZA would be amongst those trailing at the bottom in the ranking.

 

Madam Chairperson, I like the emphasis on skills development which is going to be supported by the establishment of the Skills Development Fund. Nevertheless, we should we tag along the aspect of skills utilisation as we are trying to develop these skills. At the moment with our current challenges we have some trained personal, graduates we have churned out from universities but whose skills are not being utilised because they are just looming the streets. These graduates have no jobs to do or are not supported to undertake their own income generating activities.

 

Madam Chairperson, we have produced graduate engineers and yet in this same House we have been crying about the poor quality of work done to some of the community projects that we have been undertaking as a country. So, this means that while we are trying to offer these skills, the university and the ministry, in particular, will do well to establish some linkages with some sectors on the market so that our graduates can get the hands on experience to undertake some of these projects and enhance the skills that they learn in their lecture rooms in addition to theory knowledge they acquired.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would therefore, wish to emphasise the need to enhance our university curriculum vis a viz, the need to enhance the entrepreneurial aspect so that our graduates are not just looking forward to being employed but can initiate their own business enterprises. The same example I gave about our engineers, is our procurement system is in such a way that we can utilise some of that expertise by facilitating graduates to work with people who do our roads? In that way, we will be supporting the knowledge and practical transfer of skills to our graduates so that in the long term, we will reduce on the cost of hiring manpower all the time from China when we have our own local graduates that can do the work on our behalf.

 

Madam Chairperson, Prof. Lungwangwa gave some very good practical and specific observations concerning how we have implemented our budget and this is where my worry is. The Government is good at making speeches and policy pronouncements but when it comes to implementation, they seem to depart sharply from what they say in this House.

 

Madam Chairperson, in welcoming the loans board, we leant from the hon. Minister of Higher Education that not long ago, this House actually passed an loans Act and we have heard that in this budget a K5 million has been reserved for loans, we would still want to encourage the Ministry of Higher Education, working with the Ministry of Finance, to ensure that the loans scheme is operationalised because this particular matter of loans has been on the table for a long time. For us to just sit in the comfort of that pronouncement, I think we may not achieve anything unless these ministries are encouraged to ensure issue of student loans actually comes to pass.

 

Madam Chairperson, one issue that has come out throughout the debates in this House is the aspect of equity in the way these facilities and resources are distributed. So, the same goes to education and higher education in particular, because I note that from the Sixth National Development Plan until now we are still pursuing the path of establishing at least one university per province. When we have a case of Robert Kapasa Makasa University, for instance, sitting in one district of Chinsali with John Mushindo University, does not do well, it does not make us pass the test of equity. So, I would want to emphasise this aspect to say that we need these facilities, not only universities but also the Skills Development Centres that the hon. Minister talked about to be equitably distributed across the different regions of this country.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would want to encourage the hon. Minister of Higher Education working with the university senate to find innovative ways of generating some income that they can use to deal with their own unique challenges in these institutions. For instance, the University of Zambia at some time had vast tracks of land which were meant for practical purposes by students in agriculture but I believe that some of those farms were meant to generate income for university. What we have seen in recent years is that slowly, such assets are being sold to help liquidate some of the arrears that the university has accrued which is not a healthy situation.

 

Madam Chairperson, in fact, apart from just debt servicing, so to say, the university itself, has given out these pieces of land to members of staff so, it means that the aspect of income generation is being lost which would helped the university to deal with the problems of perpetual arrears that I have already alluded to earlier. They could raise income which would help improve some of the facilities in the university to give us that good ranking. When you look at our University of Zambia library, I think this is a common song that most of our reference materials there is outdated. The capacity of the library itself is not adequate to deal with the kind of enrolments that the university has to deal with. It is the same university library that catered for the 100 students that we had at independence which still carters for these 39,000 students that the university has now enrolled. So, the aspect of infrastructure and also modernising of these facilities are some of the issues that the hon. Minster will do well to pay attention to.

 

Madam Chairperson, there is now a new phenomenon within the university; it is the issue of students writing assignments for other students especially our distance learning students. I think this is academic fraud. So, the university needs to look into this new challenge and find some rigorous ways of assessing students achievement and performance if our graduates are really going to be well baked otherwise we are risk having people carrying all these titles, certificates and degrees yet they will be little to show in terms of output from those qualifications that they would have acquired in a dubious way.

 

Madam Chairperson that is what I wanted to say.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Madam Chairperson, thank for allowing me to equally add my voice to this important Vote.

 

Madam Chairperson, there is no nation worldwide which has managed to pull its people out of poverty without making significant investment in human capital development because the greatest asset of any nation are its people. It therefore, follows that for you to make major strides; you must invest significantly in your people.

 

There is no need to have a lot of natural resources, and like we do here, boastof having 40 per cent of water bodies in Southern Africa and still be poor. We can have all those things, but if the citizenry are not competitive or well equipped to craft solutions for themselves and theirnation, harness those natural resources anddevelop themselves, nothing will happen and we will continue to cry and wallow in poverty.

 

Madam Chairperson, it,therefore, follows that education is one of the pillars of national development and I am sure the hon. Minister of National Development and Planning agrees with me. It is for this reason that I stand here to support this vote because I was one of those who continuously bemoaned the fact that the function of higher education was undertaken by the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education.As a starting point, I am very happy that the function of higher education has been hived off from general education and now we can concentrate more achingly so on higher education, science and technology, research and development, and innovation because these are the parameters that have moved nations forward and I am happy that the hon. Minister made reference to some of these points.

                                                            

Madam Chairperson, having said that, I have a few concerns and that is the reason I stood up to contribute to this vote. Firstly, in this nation, we continue to suggest that the answer to pulling ourselves out of poverty is university education. We continue to sing about university education to the extent that 65 per cent of the Ministry of Higher Education’s allocation has gone to university education. We continue to roll out a lot of universities and hon. Members here continue saying that they need universities in their provinces. We now have way over thirty-six plus public universities and we continue to see a proliferation of universities under the private sector although most of them are sub-standard. We continue to pour massive resources into the idea of rolling out universitieswhen to start with we have problems to deal with those that we currently have.

 

Madam Chairperson, I think that the hon. Minister should slow down on the notion of universities at this stage of our development. Much as we need universities, I think we need to invest significantly into those universities, improve them and ensure that they have adequate human resource personnelwho are obviously going to deliver andwe can move towards skills development. Quite rightly so however, this area continues to receive a low profile and as we can see, only 27 per cent has been allocated to it. It being a new ministry, all we can say is that perhaps it is a good start.

 

However, I still feel that there is a lot of fragmentation in the area of skills development. So many trade centres under Technical Education Vocational and Entrepreneur Training (TEVET) are training people in different trades. I know, for instance, that the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development many times comes here and tells that us that it is the policy of the ministry to develop a youth resource centre in every district. Again, we are told that the ministry will ensure that they put up moreskills colleges. I would like to suggest to the hon. Minister that that function of skills development must with immediate effect, if it was possible, be removed from the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development and be taken over by the ministry that is responsible for delivering this very important aspect of our human capital development.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am also concerned that our universities have become nothing, but glorified high schools. The lecturers just teach, but do not carry out any research. University lecturers basically serve three functions. Apart from transferring knowledge to our children, they are also supposed to generate new knowledge which is generated by research. I have looked through the allocationof the Ministry of Higher Education and only a paltry sum of K6 million has been allocated toscience and innovation. Given the fact that we have all these universities, we should encourage the academics who we have trained at great cost to give us new knowledge. They can only give us new knowledge through research. However, firstly, as we country, we do not even have a national research agenda. Even if they had to carry out research, which is the direction we want them to take, wehave not defined the areas which we would want them to concentrate on.

 

Madam Chairperson, we have been grappling with the issues of mining, diversification and agriculture and these are the areas where we have challenges with. We can give the academics money to make proposals so that we can have solutions in these areas and I am sure they can do great wonders. We do not necessarily have to go round copying all sorts of ideas from elsewhere and leave our people who can give us the solutions after all that is the aim of higher education. Apart from teaching, we need to ensure that these people carry out research and we should define the agenda for them based on the Seventh National Development Plan (7th NDP). In fact, the7th NDP will just become a piece of paper without any meaning attached to it if we do not marry it to human capital development. Therefore, hon. Minister, I think let us begin to have a paradigm shift. I think we have enough universities and we must invest significantly into them. However, let us also look at the important area of research and skills development levy.

 

Madam Chairperson,in fact, in my view, we do not even need to build new infrastructure for skills development. We have dozens of secondary schools and existing colleges which we can use because the people acquiring these skills would basically be practically based and would need very little time in class. During the holidays, most of the secondary schools are empty so we can use them. I have heard that we plan to change the model to open and distance learning, but we can recruit thousands of our youth and train them. When the schools re-open, we can send them for internship since they would be pursuing practical based courses. After two years, I am sure most of the youth will have diplomas and certificates. Therefore, in the strict sense of the word, we already have the infrastructure that we need. We do not need to reinvent the will by investing huge sums of money to put up the so-called youth resource centres in every district and meanwhile it is not happening. So, let us rethink the idea to develop higher education.

                                                                                                

Madam Chairperson, I think that we are the only country that has spent a lot of money in the past by putting up the so-called technical secondary schools. Have you ever wondered that we send those who are identified as best students to Hillcrest and David Kaunda Technical High Schools and thereafter nothing happens? Over the last many years, some of our colleagues who went to these secondary schools still went to the University of Zambia (UNZA). Other countries have over the years kept a system of tracking some of their best young people who after going to technical schools such as David Kaunda, Hillcrest and Ndola Girls Technical High Schools wereimmediatelysent outside the country to go and acquire skills in technology and innovations and that is what China and Malaysia did. If we adopted that system andthose boys and girls came back, I am sure that in the last fifty years, we would have been at another level.

 

Madam Chairperson, 5.1 per cent that has beenallocated to science and innovation is very paltry.

 

There can be no meaningful industrialisation without significant attachment or importance to science and technology. I know that under the Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP), one of the pillars of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is to industrialise. So, how do you industrialise without any scientific culture in the nation? How do you industrialise without attaching so much importance and raising the profile of science and technology? It simply remains a pipedream. So, we must get our priorities right and marry our plans with what is obtaining in our ministries. I still think that this 5 per cent which has been allocated to science and technology is very little. All those statements that have been made by the hon. Minister will be very difficult to achieve with this kind of allocation.

 

Madam Chairperson, we need a scientific culture in this nation. That is the only way we are going to industrialise. We need to promote science to all the citizens, and not only to our young people. All of us must take an interest in science. That is the only way we are going to develop a scientific and industrialisation culture. Therefore, we need to up our game in this area so that we can begin to meet the objectives that we have set.

 

Madam Chairperson, some of the concepts in science and technology are so simple. That is why China is where it is, on the concept of reverse engineering, for example. Reverse engineering is nothing, but taking a piece of equipment such as a cell phone, stripping it apart and studying how it was made and then making a similar one.

 

Dr Kalila moves from his microphone.

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Member, you have walked away from your microphone.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Kalila: Madam Chairperson, I am sorry.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Your Microphone is here.

 

Dr Kalila: Madam Chairperson, I am sorry. I got carried away because I am so passionate about science and technology matters. These are some of the concepts that have moved our countries to where they are. Every day, we cry about the Chinese being copycats, but see where that has taken them. Just reverse engineering which involves picking up a piece of equipment, including a car, and stripping it, studying how it was made and making a similar one. When you do that, you can name it something else. You can even call it Garry, but the point is you would have made a similar car, you have marketed it and you move forward. Our young people can do so many of such things because they are capable. These are some of the simple concepts. We need science backs all over to interest our people. I am sure that the hon. Minister for General Education, who was at the Science and Technology Council is aware of what I am talking about.

 

Madam Chairperson, let us begin to do some of these simple things that will move our country forward. With these very few remarks, allow me to end here and give an opportunity to my friends to take it up.

 

I thank you.

 

Mr Machila (Magoye): Madam Chairperson, from the onset, let me put my argument across and say that I support the allocation to this Vote. However, the allocation is inadequate to carry out any meaningful improvement. There seems to be a general feeling that when we talk about our education, it is mainly about university education. Otherwise, we could have named the ministry as Ministry of Universities.

 

Madam Chairperson since this ministry covers colleges and skills centres, the emphasis should not only be at the university level. Having borrowed heavily from the colonial education system, our institutions seem to have the legacy of training people towards white collar jobs while ignoring the skills. One of the biggest challenges of higher education is that the personnel is not well motivated. Let me give an example of the University of Zambia (UNZA), which has all the departments, including the Research Institute. However, when it comes to rewarding those who do research, it is almost not there. At retirement, the workers and lecturers will stay for more than ten years without getting their benefits. This is frustrating and a cause for many of the lecturers to be involved in small scale universities that have mushroomed just to make ends meet. They do that because the university does not pay them adequately, and when they retire, they do not receive their benefits. Sometimes, even after these lecturers have died, their families may stay more than five years before they are given the benefits. Therefore, the challenge is that while the policies are good, we need to look at how the operatives or workers at institutions of higher learning can be rewarded.

 

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Chonya mentioned that the ranking of our public institution, UNZA, is very far from what the public expects. The reason is simple and that is because we are not emphasising on research and publication. The university will be rated highly if it has researched and published documents and discoveries of a high magnitude. Zambia is part of the global village. Therefore, if UNZA and other institutions of higher learning do not encourage research, there is no way they are going to be rated highly. The universities will be said to be sleeping on duty.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am happy to learn that the hon. Minister of Higher Education is talking about loans and bursaries. However, what worries me is that I did not get the point clearly as regards loans and bursaries for those that go to colleges as well as the thirty-six recognised universities that are in private hands. I say so because it is not only those that go to public institutions that will require bursaries. The greater part of the population is poor.

 

Therefore, all those who will require going to colleges or universities not run by the Government will equally require loan schemes. So, how have you, as the Government, taken care of the majority of these people? Those who will go to public institutions such as the Copperbelt University (CBU), UNZA, Nkrumah Teachers Training College and Mulungushi University are very few compared to those who go to private institutions. How has your ministry taken care of these people? They equally need the loans and bursaries. Ensuring that they also have access to these facilities will be taking care of our people.

 

Madam Chairperson, when it comes to the University Education Authority (UEA), it is good to have a regulating body that should look at the standards. However, that body must also be controlled and checked properly. For example, some of the activities by the UEA include taxes to charge these public institutions. I will give an example of Rusangu University, where I had an opportunity to lecture. The students studying education are charged K100 for being a student in the Department of Education. They are being taxed for being students. These are the same people that the Government is not taking care of by giving them loans. Consequently, these private institutions hike the charges hence making it very difficult for the majority of our people who will not have had an opportunity of going to a public university. In short, what I am saying is that while we have this authority, let us consider the interest of our people, whose children do not go to public institutions.

 

Finally, this allocation is too inadequate to achieve the intended target. It will just remain in the files, in view of inadequate funding. If we do not revise and focus on science and technology, most of our graduates will train to be White Collar masters but remain in the field as paper tigers and not add to scientific development.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

The First Chairperson: Any further debate?

 

Mr Kafwaya, Mr Malanji and Mr Daka indicated to speak.

 

The First Chairperson: There can only be one person from this side to debate. Let us see some leadership being exhibited.

 

Laughter

 

The First Chairperson: There are three of you standing, but there can only be one to debate, and I do not want to be the one to choose. 

 

Mr Kafwaya resumed his seat.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Malanji resumed his seat.

 

Interruptions

 

The First Chairperson:  Thank you for that magnanimity, Hon. Malanji. Hon. Member for Msanzala, you have the Floor.

 

Mr Daka (Msanzala): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving this opportunity to add my voice to this very crosscutting ministry’s Vote. I call it crosscutting because it has trained nearly everybody in this country. For example, the cameraman standing in front of me is here because of this ministry. This Floor that I am stepping on is as a result of an artisan who has come through some college under this Ministry.

 

The hon. Minister has brought in a very serious document/programme. There are 306 colleges in Zambia. Twenty six out of this number are Government-owned. This goes to show that the private sector is part of us. It is sad that we call them investors who lack seriousness or backyard universities and yet they are augmenting the Government’s effort.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mr Daka: They are augmenting the Government’s effort.

 

This ministry wants to have a college in each district. That college will act as a delta of primary and secondary schools in these places. A delta picks on everything. This ministry has set up a zero entropy situation whereby it wants to accept Grade 7 dropouts and give them careers as carpenters, mechanics or metal fabricators. By setting up a qualification framework, I want to believe that at one point such people will study quietly and graduate to go to university.

 

Madam Chairperson, emphasis has been put on universities. I heard my colleague, who was Minister of Education at one time when I was Minister of Science and Technology, mention one good important aspect of leadership. President John Dramani Mahama, whom I met in one of the committees in the Pan-African Parliament, is a friend of mine who said that when a person loses, he or she must ask themselves why they have lost.

 

Mr Syakalima: And he has lost!

 

Mr Daka: Yes, he has lost but, at one time or the other, we all have lost and when we do wake up we want to make good of that which went wrong. 

 

Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Higher Education has built so many colleges in Zambia that have produced people that are responsible for our economy. Lumwana Mine takes up students who are on apprenticeship from Solwezi Trades Training School to train them into fitters or mining technicians. About 90 percent of the workers in the mines have not gone through university. The engineers, who are the big people, are only planners. The hands-on people are the ones that have come through these 306 colleges.

 

Madam Chairperson, I have covered universities and now I want to cover trades’ institutes that have helped this economy to grow. In the past, the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) used to sponsor students from colleges. This is not the case anymore and I want to commend the hon. Minister for a policy that will levy industries to support colleges and institutions under her ministry. This is long overdue.

 

Madam Chairperson, Zambia at one time enjoyed the highest number of pilots who were trained by Zambia Air Services Training Institute (ZASTI) established by the late Valentine Musakanya, may his soul rest in peace. These pilots, about ninety-eight of them, had the opportunity to fly the Zambia Airways. Further, most pilots in the region were trained by this institute. However, I am aware that today this college is under the Ministry of Communication and Transport. We must appreciate what this ministry has done for this country other than admonish it.

 

Madam Chairperson, I do not believe that the money that has been allocated to the ministry is enough. Science institutions such as the National Science Technology Council (NSTC), the National Council of Scientific Research, where Dr Wanchinga was director for a long time, and the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR) help young people to develop into scientists through Junior Engineers, Technicians and Scientists (JETS) in secondary schools and gives young people scholarships to study science. Furthermore, we have the National remote Sensing Centre. These are institutions that encourage young people to become scientists. The only impetus is that we give them motivation to go into research.

 

At one time, NISIR researched on the Moringer Tree which has so many uses here in Zambia. It treats water and cures certain diseases. The institute was also raring crocodiles for research. For instance, crocodile fat cured my old man’s bold head.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Daka:  Crocodile fat is medicine for so many diseases. There is a farm in Livingstone that NISIR corroborated with to make sure that the crocodile fat collected is used as medicine. I stand here as a former worker for this crosscutting ministry, which encompasses so many developments in this country. If horses were riders …

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

 

Mr Daka: …we could …

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Daka: If horses were riders, this ministry could have been given more money to make sure that research, innovation, training and …

 

Laughter

 

Mr Daka: …many other programmes are enhanced. I do not want to waste so much time belabouring certain points that have already been given.

 

Madam Chairperson, this ministry, in collaboration with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), helped to set up the Cancer Hospital, which is vital to this country. Many people do not know that this ministry was part and parcel of the Cancer Centre that handed it over to the Ministry of Health.

 

Madam Chairperson, in the past, this ministry had built Mwense College, Lundazi , Kalabo, Isoka, Mporokoso, Sesheke, Mumbwa, Kapasa Makasa University, King Lewanika and F.T.J. universities. I suggest that every district in Zambia should have a colleague where those people who believe that they are failures or they have not been allowed to go into universities can now find the opportunity to pursue university education because as far as I am concerned, there is nobody who is a failure.

 

Madam Chairperson, after one fails to go into university, it should not be the end of the world. I believe that you only miss water when a well dries up.  Many of us who did not get straight entries from Grade 12 into universities have realised that life is difficult outside there and we have since started studying. It is for this reasons that there is a pre-qualification framework to ensure that even when one fails the first attempt, he/she can qualify to go into university later on when people look at what you have done in your life with your practicality.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me leave space for others to debate.

 

With these few words, I support the ministry and I wish that they can be given more support and more money.

 

I thank you, Madam, Chairperson.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Prof. Luo: Madam Chairperson, since we are democracy, it was very interesting to listen to different interventions. I want to congratulate National Restoration Party (NAREP) for having gone for their convention and I hope others can also go their convention.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Not wamuyayaya!

 

Prof. Luo: Madam, just give me two minutes to enable me highlight some salient points.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to start my debate with the submission made by Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, which was the longest debate.

 

Madam, sometimes writing documents is not the same as implementing. If there were any documents that were written about how the financing of our institutions will be and was never implemented, count it as not done. What I have presented in this House is what we want to implement and happen. I have said this many times and I want to repeat it today that I will be bringing a comprehensive paper to this House suggesting the financing models that we are proposing.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to state that I do not know of any country, where even public universities are 100 per funded by the Government. I have studied in many countries, but every country I have been to, the human capital that finds itself in the university is part of the financing model.

 

In fact, I also want invite Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa to come to the ministry and the Higher Education Authority in particular so that he can look at what they are doing and the tools they are using for assessments so that he can realise that we have moved miles away. He will also see that in fact, the Higher Educational Act is being amended to take into consideration what is current and not was yesterday. We have to move forward.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Prof. Luo: Madam, in relation to the loans boards that is coming, I want to repeat it that all the students both in the public and private sectors will be eligible to these loans. Let me also inform this House that the reason we are not implementing, Hon. Chonya, is that having a document is one thing, but you we need to have the mechanisms of implementing that document. It is for this reason that I want to tell you that we are going to do some research and have a data base of our skill sets and our depleted skills so that when we are giving out the loans, we will have priority setting as who should get first. So, do not force us to implement it now when we are not ready. We want to use 2017 to put systems in place.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Drink water!

 

Prof. Luo: Madam Chairperson, I also want to say that maybe, I need to unpack what TEVET stands for since there are people who said Government is not paying attention to skills. TEVET stands for ‘Technical Education Vocation and Entrepreneur Training.’ So, I belaboured the point because I did not only speak about universities, but I have talked about skills training through colleagues and trades schools.

 

Madam, I also want to say that I will be bringing a comprehensive paper to this House on how we are do this. Therefore, those of you who believe that you contributed many years, I want to say ‘thank you,’ but we are moving on and we are current.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.  

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Votes 65/5504, 65/5506 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 65/5507 – (Ministry of Higher EducationScience, Technology and Innovation – 74,029,734).

 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5507, Activity 002 − Scientific Research and Development – K6,329,930.

 

The Minister of Higher Education (Prof. Luo): Madam Chairperson, what usually happens is that this money is made available for all scientific research in the country and people bid based on their research title. There is a committee that sits and analyses the bids. Thereafter, the best research proposed is funded.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Madam Chairperson, the allocation for the whole programme has dropped from K75,324,787 in 2016 to K74,029,734 in 2017, which is a difference of about K1.3 million. What is the justification for this drop?

 

Prof. Luo: Madam Chairperson, I can only say that this has been due to budgetary constraints. Therefore, this is the money that was allocated for this programme.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Vote 65/5507 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 65/5508 (Ministry of Higher EducationManagement and Support Services – K26,777,673).

 

Prof. Lungwangwa: Madam Chairperson, we need explanations from the hon. Minister on what is going to happen in the programmes we are looking at here. Now, the rise in the sum for this programme, from K19,070,023, in 2016 to K26,777, 673 in 2017,is quite substantial. What is the justification for this?

 

Prof. Luo: Madam Chairperson, I think what should be appreciated is that the Ministry of Higher Education just got separated from the Ministry of General Education. So there will be restructuring that will be taking place. Secondly, we have new institutions that have been put in place and therefore, there will be recruitment of human resource. Some of our staff will be required to participate in taking up position in these new institutions. We have the loans board that is coming up and we will be establishing a human resource skills development division. All this is going to be catered for through this money. The increase is not that substantial. It is actually very little.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Vote 65/5508 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 25 – (Local Government Service Commission – K8,480,952).

 

The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale): Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank you for the opportunity to deliver the policy statement in support of the 2017 budget for the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC). The statement is in two parts. Part one looks at the performance of the commission in 2016, while part two outlines the policy focus for 2017.

 

Madam Chairperson, despite inadequate and erratic funding for the 2016 fiscal year, the commission managed to score considerable success in the following areas in 2016.

 

  1. Recruitment and Replacement of Staff

 

Madam Chairperson, in order to ensure that the local authorities have the capacity to deliver quality services, the commission embarked on the recruitment exercise of various categories of professionally qualified and competent employees. Further, the commission continued to ensure equitable distribution of skilled and qualified staff in local authorities through internal transfers. In so doing, the commission has been able to facilitate the employment of skilled and qualified personnel in all local authorities across the country, including those in rural and remote areas. In addition to this, internal transfers have helped in curbing vices that rise from familiarity in respect of employees who have outstayed in some local authorities. As you may be aware, familiarity breeds contempt.

 

  1. Discipline

 

Madam Chairperson, the commission has been taking timely corrective and punitive disciplinary measures against erring employees in the service in order to ensure a disciplined and professional workforce.

 

  1. Technical Support

 

The commission has been conducting technical support to local authorities throughout the country to deal with the human resource matters and provide on-site capacity support to the principle and chief officers of the councils as well as to interact with stakeholders such as the provincial and district administration, civil leaders, union branch officials and council employees. Such interaction resulted in conflict resolution in various councils, thereby averting occurrence of strikes and provided a platform for enhancing communication and inclusive decision making between the commission, the local authorities and other stakeholders.

 

  1. Staff and Skills Audit

 

The LGSC, in conjunction with the Public Service Commission (PSC), Office of the President, Public Service Management Division (PSMD), Management Development Division (MDD), Ministry of Local Government as well as Local Government Association of Zambia (LGAZ), conducted a staff and skills audit of town clerks and council secretaries for 101 councils out of the current 106 councils. The purpose of the staff audit was to determine the education and professional qualification of each principle officer as well as to assess their capabilities. This was done in line with the following:

 

  1. effective management of local authorities;

 

  1. effective implementation of the Decentralisation Policy; and

 

  1. identification of capacity gaps in order to facilitate development and implementation of tailor-made capacity building programmes aimed at enhancing individual and organisational performance.

 

  1. Revision of the 1996 Terms and Conditions of Service

 

Madam Chairperson, the commission with the input from key stakeholders has finalised the revision of the 1996 terms and conditions of service for the local government service. Implementation is scheduled for 2017, once the final validation meeting and approval is done.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me now turn to the commission’s policy focus for 2017. I fully support the policy pronouncements contained in the 2017 Budget Address by the hon. Minister of Finance. In this regard, the commission intents to prioritise its operations and focus on the following key activities in 2017.

 

Madam Chairperson, following the operationalisation of the Service Commissions Act No. 10 of 2016, and in line with the human resource reforms for the public service, the LGSC will continue to play the role of an overall regulatory, supervisory and appellant body and shall focus on more strategic rather than transactional roles in order to improve service delivery in the councils. The commission will facilitate the delegation of human resource functions to the local authorities in line with the Service Commissions Act to enable the local authorities deal with the transactional aspect of human resource management, while the commission focuses on strategic issues.

 

The commission will further develop regulations for the local government service to effectively operationalise the Service Commissions Act and implement the human resource reforms. The commission will ensure implementation of a robust human resource management information system and computerise record management to facilitate timely decision making. The commission will restructure the secretariat to make it more efficient and effective in providing support to the operations of local authorities.

 

The commission will continue to offer technical support visits to local authorities in order to ensure effective service delivery to communities and contribute to national development.

 

The commission will focus on ensuring that local authorities have the capacity to effectively execute their mandate and deliver services in the context of decentralisation. In this regard, the commission will collaborate closely with Chalimbana Local Government Training Institute and other training institutions to provide relevant training to local authorities in order to empower them to deliver quality services in light of increased and expanded functions in a decentralised governance system.

 

Arising from the need to improve service delivery to local authorities, the commission will finalise the development of a strategic plan to cover the period 2017 to 2021.

 

The commission will carry on with the staff and skills audit to cover all the chief officers and management staff of all local authorities. This will ensure that the right people with the right qualifications are placed in the right jobs to enhance service delivery in general operations of local authorities.

 

The commission will strengthen monitoring and evaluation to effectively monitor operations of the local authorities with respect to human resource management as the bedrock to improved service delivery.

 

Madam Chairperson, the role of the commission is critical to the effective operations of local authorities and the successful implementation of the decentralisation policy. The commission will continue to relentlessly support and strengthen the local authorities to meet their obligations to their respective communities through the provision of qualified, competent and skilled staff. In this regard, I wish to implore hon. Members of this House to support the Local Government Service Commission’s 2017 budget to enable the commission address the human resource challenges in our local authorities and hence, contribute positively to the successful implementation of the decentralisation policy.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Samakayi (Mwinilunga): Madam Chairperson, I agree with the budget for the Local Government Service Commission ...

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Samakayi: ... and with most of the issues that the hon. Minister has outlined in his policy statement in support of the budget. However, I have a few issues that I want to bring out.

 

Madam Chairperson, I think it is important to recognise that the Local Government Service Commission is an integral part of the local government system and its operations are very critical for the local government to function well. The hon. Minister mentioned the issue of regulations for the local government. I am aware that from the time the Local Government Service Commission was re-established in 2010, it has never formulated new local government service regulations to guide the operations of the local government. It has been using the local government service regulations of 1996. I am very glad that the hon. Minister has admitted that the Local Government Service Commission has been using the 1996 regulations and now the commission is working on formulating new regulations to guide the operations of the local government.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Local Government Service Commission has only five commissioners who superintend 106 local authorities in this country. These local authorities combined, have a huge establishment and I think dealing with this huge establishment is an uphill task for the five commissioners. These commissioners are human beings who are amenable to various vices that include corruption. They also face interference from political masters and I will soon demonstrate that.

 

There have been rampant transfers of staff from one council to another. In certain instances, a member of staff can be transferred three times in one year. This is causing local authorities to be mired in staff debt by way of settling allowances. Councils have made recommendations to the Local Government Service Commission for certain officers to be promoted to higher ranks to motivate the officers, but the Local Government Service Commission has disregarded those recommendations and hired people from outside. That has frustrated the staff, and the councillors who make these recommendations. I think that the people from the Local Government Service Commission must desist from this activity; they must encourage promotions within the establishment because that motivates workers.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Local Government Service Commission has employed firemen in councils that do not even have fire equipment. So I wonder what these people do. These are people with Grade 12 certificates. Honestly speaking, does the Government need to employ a clerical officer with a Grade 12 certificate from urban areas? Can the Government not employ someone from the local area? Can the Government not employ someone with a Grade 12 certificate from Chama? There are many people with a Grade 12 certificate in Chama, Mwinilunga or Chadiza, for instance. So, why should the Government employ staff with Grade 12 certificates from Lusaka? The Government is depriving employment from the local people. That is why everybody is leaving the rural areas to come to Lusaka because that is where the jobs are. I think the Local Government Service Commission needs to rethink this issue.

 

Madam Chairperson, there are ten former members of staff of the local government who have been retired and they are aged between forty-eight and fifty years. Their retirement age has not arrived, but they have been retired under the infamous “National interest.”

 

They had gone to Local Authority Superannuation Fund (LASF) so that they can be paid their money but LASF is saying it cannot pay them because they have not reached sixty-five years. Instead these workers are referred back to the council that retired them. Since the council does not have the money to pay, these people have been reinstated on the payroll until they are paid their money.

 

It is against this background that the public service is losing money. It is paying people that are not working for it. First of all, there is an injustice on the part of the workers who have been retired because their retirement date has not arrived and secondly, they have been placed on the payroll and continue getting a salary.

 

This is the reason why I was telling the hon. Minister of Finance that this budget holds very nice words but there is a lot of wastefulness of funds in the Public Service, which do not much with what he was saying about the budget. There are a lot of things that are wrong in the administration of the Public Service.

 

I did not mind finding out where these ten members of the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) come from and what tribe they are. This is because I did not want to exacerbate the debate of tribalism, which I think we do not need it. We do not need the debate on regionalism as well because it is not going to develop Zambia. Unfortunately, what is pulling us down is regionalism and tribalism.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Correct!

 

Mr Samakayi: Madam Chairperson, the other issue I would like to talk about is on decentralisation. We are talking about giving power to local authorities. Meaning that we have devolved most of the functions under health, education, agriculture, water and sanitation, but the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) is still holding on to the function of employment of staff in the local authorities. The question is: Why? The explanation is not clear about what the hon. Minister meant by saying the LGSC is remaining with strategic issues. I am not too sure whether he was talking about devolving the issue of employment of local government staff to the councils themselves so that they are given authority to hire and fire.

 

Madam Chairperson, the job of LGSC is to provide policy on employment and to set standards or qualifications for the people that should enter LGSC. I think this is what all these other ministries which have devolved their functions to local authorities should be doing. Theirs is to set policies and standards, monitor and evaluate those standards whether the councils are following the policies and those standards and advise them. That should be the job of the LGSC in terms of managing the human capital in local authorities.

 

Therefore, my recommendations would have been the ones the Minister has already mentioned, to formulate regulations that resonate with local governance system. Secondly, set policies and guidelines for the councils to follow. Then councils should hire and fire staff on the basis of the guidelines that are developed by the LGSC.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would also like to comment on the LGSC regulations. As they stand today, they do not include the recruitment of the chief executive officers for councils. However, the emphasis is on the legal profession as well as public administration. With the decentralisation that has been undertaken, we are aware that there are other professions that have entered local government. Professions such as agriculture, education and health, that would also want to aspire to be chief executives in these local authorities. So the regulations should be opened up in order to accommodate these other professions that have found themselves in local government.

 

Madam Chairperson, with these few remarks, I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to also add my voice to this Vote, even though it is difficult for me to support it.

 

Mr Mushanga: Loobe!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Jere: Reason being that when disadvantages outweigh advantages, you do not go that way. What do I mean?

 

In this country, the Patriotic Front (PF) is on record of having championed the decentralisation policy in which LGSC was created. However, in my opinion, I feel LGSC seems to be a stumbling block. Just like what the previous speaker has alluded to in this country, human resource in local authorities is employed by LGSC and their loyalty lies on LGSC because it is the employer. It is the one that looks at their transfers and handling disciplinary cases. As such, the position of the mayors has been left as a skeleton.

 

Madam Chairperson, between 2002 and 2010, there was a Structural Adjustment Programme (SAP) in which a lot of workers went on voluntary separation in local authorities. This was because the councils were unable to pay wages to the employees. As such, they decided to reduce on the workforce so that they could pay the workers. On the other hand, when LGSC came into effect, we saw a rise in numbers of people being employed. For example, if you look at Livingstone City Council, in 2006, it had a workforce of about 260. In 2011, it had a workforce of about 400 and now it has skyrocketed, resulting into this council failing to pay its workers due to its meager resources. At the moment, Livingstone City Council is in six months arrears. May be what we needed to do was to look at the reasons why there was SAP in all these councils.

 

Consequently, even those who went on voluntary separation have not been paid their dues up until now. This means that the interest of LGSC, to me, seems to be paramount as opposed to that of a worker who has suffered for so many years working in ensuring that our districts and towns look clean.

 

Madam Chairperson, the other issue I wish to talk about is about disciplinary cases in local authorities. It is said that justice delayed is justice denied. The LGSC takes long to go round the country to hear and discharge some of these disciplinary matters that are pending. There are situations where some employees of the council have been suspended but they would be serving a suspension longer than expected because cases have taken too long to be attended to. Yet we are aware of the fact that LGSC has the powers to form sub structures to handle these cases at provincial level such as the office of the provincial local government administrator who can also discharge some of these cases. Unfortunately, they wait for the LGSC to do that. As a result, people suffer getting half salary for so many years.

 

In most cases, if an officer does something wrong, the LGSC transfers the officer to another council, but that does not solve the problem.

 

Madam Chairperson, a lot of workers in Local Government complain that some people are more equal than others. People seem to be treated according to appearance or their links with the LGSC.

 

Madam Chairperson, unions are believed to be the mouthpiece for those that cannot voice out their complaints. However, if a unionist stands up to talk against the vices of the LGSC, that person would be transferred from the city council to a district council. An example is what the previous speaker alluded to where you would find that someone is a chairperson of a Fire Services Union of Zambia (FIRESUZ)  in a city council, but he is transferred to a district council, which does not even have a fire department. These are the frustrations that cause some of our workers not to perform to expectation.

 

Madam Chairperson, the other issue is the non-detrimental clause. Some officers who were at a certain notch were transferred to a certain council, but because issues are not harmonised, they were getting more than the principle officer. As a result of that, some were even suspend and it brought a lot of confusion to the Local Government system. For instance, Chingola Municipal Council could be paying better than Chingola City Council. When officers are transferred, they move with their salary scale which means they will be getting more than the principle officer. The LGSC needs to come in and harmonise this.

 

Madam Chairperson, we used to have seventy-two councils in the country, but now the number has grown to 106 and yet the allocation for some activities has reduced. The Budget allocation for 2016 was K7,431,416 while the allocation for 2017 is K8,480,952. The Local Authorities Salaries and Conditions of Service Negotiations received K100,000 in 2016, but there is only an allocation of K40,000 for 2017. This simply shows that this commission is becoming irrelevant in the administration of local governance in this country. Further, the hon. Minister mentioned that one of the ministry’s functions is to monitor and evaluate the way the principles officers and technocrats are performing in these councils, but Technical Support, Monitoring and Evaluation was allocated K749,872 for 2016 and only K699,879 for 2017. Although the amount of money allocated keeps reducing, the workforce keeps increasing because of the new districts that have been added. We need a motivated workforce that will be well supervised in all these districts so that the people can expect quality service delivery.

 

Madam Chairperson, I agree with the previous speaker who said that this time we are talking about devolution of power from the centre to local authorities. That is the only way to go about it. Countries like South Africa, Botswana and Zimbabwe have developed because of this. In South Africa, the Mayor has powers to employ Town Clerks and directors and they have a good working relationship.

 

Madam Chairperson, when LGSC visits these councils, they only interact with the principle officers instead of the workers who we always see demonstrating on TV. The LGSC is supposed to interact with workers so that they hear the problems they are facing and come up with solutions to solve them.

 

Madam Chairperson, there was a proposal by one hon. Member of Parliament that we re-look at the Constitution and maybe we should. This commission needs to be deleted or erased from the Constitution so that all the workers in this country that are under the LGSC can fall under the Public Service Commission. This should be done so that even at the time of their retirement they will be given reasonable pensions on time.

 

Madam Chairperson, at the moment some councils cannot even pay their employee’s pensions. The councils give people K5,000 but what can a person do with that? People who have worked for 40 years are given their fair share of money on paper, but when it comes to cash they are given K2,000. As a result, these people with their degrees have ended up living destitute in the compounds because the LGSC does not speak on their behalf.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, I will be very brief as usual.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Vote for the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) deserves support. It will deserve support, more so, if the Government can, in the truest sense, try as much as they can to achieve the much talked about devolution of power so that councils can, as much as possible, have initiatives to run their own affairs.

 

Madam Chairperson, this commission was established under Article 2(27) of the Constitution of Zambia and one of its key functions is to ensure efficient and effective functioning of local authorities. We have been lamenting, year in year, out about the capacity of local authorities. It is partly as a result of our lamentations that the Local Authority Equalisation Fund established. I say this because the council structure has got the town Clerk at the top and directorates like engineering, planning, finance and so forth. Each of these directorates are required to have successes.

 

Let me take the finance directorate as an example. Why does the Lusaka City Council for instance, fail to meet its obligations in the midst of statutes such as the Markets and Bus Station Act? These statutes are supposed to assist the local authorities to function properly. What we have seen, that I am told began in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) time and now, it has become exacerbated in the Patriotic Front (PF) time, is that there is a lot of political interference of local authority operations by political players.

 

Madam Chairperson, part of the local authority function is to have initiatives to make by-laws in order to general income to make themselves function efficiently. We have seen what happened to Lusaka City Council and its failures, which I want to use as a shining example. Back in 2012, the Lusaka City Council went into some negotiations with a company called Parkrite Zambia in order to assist them develop a revenue base from parking in town. Now, we have heard that,…

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, I am sorry, if there is anybody declaring interests in Parkrite Zambia but I am just doing my job.

 

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, we have seen how councils have been denied ...

 

The First Chairperson: No point of order, Hon. Kambwili.

 

Mr Kambwili: On a point of procedure, Madam Chairperson.

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. Government Members: It is granted, you can go on!

 

The First Chairperson: No, I have not. I am really wondering what it is about. Hon. Chishimba Kambwili, can you sit down a bit.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, let me try and make the connection. What I read from this Constitution about the function of Local Government Service Commission (LGSC), …

 

The First Chairperson: Order! Let me guide. Hon. Member on the Floor, the Vote we are discussing is the Local Government Service Commission, which deals with the recruitment, ...

 

Mr Kambwili: And Human Resource!

 

The First Chairperson: ...transfer and promotion of the Ministry of Local Government staff. Can we please ensure that we do not go away from that. The topic is simply about the Ministry of Local Government members of staff.

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, I value your guidance. When I opened my debate, I said that part of the functions of the LGSC as quoted from Article 228 (d) is to ensure efficient and effective functions of local authorities. It is from that premise I want to discuss why the local authorities are inefficient, …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: …thereby, making the LGSC has difficulties. This is where I am heading to. The councils are inefficient because of these vices. Let me just follow your advice and deal with what our colleagues attempted to attend to.

 

Madam Chairperson, we know that the commission comprises of only five members. We have got 106 districts, municipals and city councils. We have been lamenting about backlog of disciplinary cases in this country. How on earth can a commission which is supposed to have sub-committees, one of which is to deal with discipline be efficient if they are only five members? We know very well that once an employee allegedly commits an offence, the Town Clerk’s office can go as far as may be recommendation of a penalty, which may include even dismissal. The LGSC is going to adjudicate fairly on those particular offences. Now, five people against an establishment, say, of Mazabuka Municipal Council, which has administration, engineering, planning and finance departments which I read out, I think that is tall order. This commission requires to release some autonomy to the office of the Town Clerk and it should be the office of appeal. This can be done for instance, if the directorate decides that the offense that has been committed is so grave and it requires dismissal because regulations will be there to guide. Only when a member of staff is completely displeased can they now appeal. Then, they will have fewer cases to deal with.

 

Madam Chairperson, I wanted to say that in Mazabuka, we are also victims of imposed untrained firemen. As you know, since you are in touch with current affairs, we have had a terrible accident in Mazabuka, just five days ago that saw a taxi driver being sandwiched between a truck that fell five days ago and the other that plunged into it two days later. This taxi driver was killed instantly. We have a department of firemen under the LGSC. I am not veering off from my argument. These are completely untrained and inadequate individuals who were employed from Lusaka. These people do not know whether they are coming or going. Part of the duties of the fire brigade is to deal with emergency services.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, it is called Fire and Rescue Services. I want to put it to the hon. Minister that had it not been for the kindness and the benevolence of the Zambia Sugar Company, up to now, we would have had that taxi still caught up in between two trucks which were carrying 60 tonnes of maize bran. We have lost lives and yet, the commission sent us rescue services. The best that the rescue team could do was to sit and watch. In the midst of all that, to add salt to injury, we do not even have a fire engine in Mazabuka. We have twelve firemen but we do not have a fire engine. Where is the sense?

 

Mr Lufuma: And plenty of water!

 

Mr Nkombo: We have a lot of water but we do not have a fire engine. I am sure that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, who is the past Minister of Local Government, is aware that we presented a case to him to say we want a brand new fire engine. We know that the Government gave a contract to someone to supply fire engines. They are there but just because Nkombo represents the people of Mazabuka, who had their own feelings about the…

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Member, we are not discussing you.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, we have fire men who were employed by the LGSC with neither iota nor clue on how to save a life. When you employ fire men and rescue servers, they are supposed to have the basics such as chainsaws. Am I not right, Hon. Kambwili?

 

Mr Kambwili laughed.

 

Mr Nkombo: They need to just have a chainsaw to cut the pieces of metal to rescue someone. They are supposed to have those things. Now, these people who were sent to Mazabuka just came with their suitcases with clothes inside.

 

Mr Kambwili: Aa mulamu!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Nkombo: They just carried their clothes, schooners and beddings. Up to now, we do not have where to accommodate them. They live near Lusumpuko Hall in a dormitory. They do not even have transport to even make them rush to see emergencies. What am I trying to say? I am trying to say that this Government should not put the cart before the horse. They should not send us people who are moribund. The commission should not send us people who are just coming for sightseeing, looking at the Nakambala Sugar Estate. This Government should first buy us a fire engine so that it makes sense for the commission to send fire men to come and work. Those people have been therefore two years now.

 

What is required is a practical demonstration of how the people of Liuwa can make money out of the animals. Otherwise, they will not understand when they are told to protect the animals for sight-seeing.

 

Madam Chairperson, with that recollection, I also want to say that although we tend to dramatise the relationship between the people and wildlife, there are actually a lot of human and animal problems. The wild beasts and buffalos now love to eat rice in people’s fields and do not want to eat grass. Therefore, I hope that there isa budgetary provision for dealing with human and animal conflicts and how they can be resolved. The officers are sometimes overzealous and they beat people and force them to do all sorts of things. We even had a case where some guards were killed because of the way the officers handle people.

 

Madam Chairperson, finally, I would like to ask the Government to re-examine the boundary of the Liuwa Plain National Park. Those inside the national park should be moved to the Game Management Areas (GMAs) because they are not allowed to cut trees or kill snakes.How can they live like that?

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity and I support the budget.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Members, if we are going to exhaust the entire fifteen minutes, we may have to bring beds and beddings on the last day. Let us try to deliver our points below fifteen minutes. It is possible.

 

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Madam Chairperson, I will not take much time. I just want to contribute to the debate and to support the budget for the Ministry of Tourism and Arts. However, I just want to raise a few concerns on this debate.

 

Madam Chairperson, in Zambia, tourism has not been promoted. The promotion of tourism is normally focused on Victoria Falls in Livingstone and a few areas which we learnt about in social studies. Therefore, I would like to appeal to the Ministry of Tourism and Arts to startpromoting tourism locally to enable Zambians visit the local tourist areas, although it may be expensive, instead ofthem going outside the country.

 

Madam Chairperson, in South Africa, I once saw an advertisement on Victoria Falls. Most tourists from Europe fly toSouth Africaand visitKruger National Park. However, after seeing the advertisement, theywant to see the Victoria Falls meanwhile they would have spent all their money in South Africa. I think we have to be aggressive when promoting our tourism and we can also introduce the outside world to our traditional ceremonies. In Zambia, we only promote the Kuomboka and Nc’wala Ceremonies meanwhile we have a lot of traditional ceremonies in other parts of the country. In Chienge, we have the Shilaand BuilileTraditional Ceremonies. However, most tourists only attend the Nc’wala Ceremonyin the Eastern Province or KuombokaCeremony in the Western Province.I have never seen any tourist attend the Umutomboko Ceremony in Mwata Kazembe’s Chiefdom.

 

Madam Chairperson, therefore, I would like to suggest that the ministry should focus on marketing other tourism events that take place in the country. Also, the Government shouldconsider bringing back the remains of broken hill man which were taken to England like South Africa did in the case of Sarah Baartman. Most tourists from Europe go to South Africa to seethe remains of Sarah Baartman and the country makes money. However, when we want to go to England to see the remains of broken hill man, we are sometimes denied the visa.

 

Interruptions

 

The First Chairperson:Order! The consultations on my right are loud. Order, hon. Ministers in the middle bench.

 

Ms Katuta: Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts should attend some traditional ceremonies in order to appreciate the value they add to the society. Most of the time, Provincial Permanent Secretaries are sent to attend the traditional ceremonies and if the Government does not appreciate these ceremonies, who is going to appreciate and market them to the outside world?

 

Madam Chairperson, I would also like to suggest to the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts to collaborate with the ministry responsible for educationand introduce tourism studies in secondary schools, and maybe even in primary schools like it is done in other countries, in order for the students to understand and also appreciate the tourist attractions in the country.

 

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, I support the budget.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Jere: Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to also add my voice to this important vote. I come from Livingstone, the tourist capital city of Zambia, and was once the capital city of Zambia and headquarters of the Southern Province. However, one of the reasons that the PF Government decided to move the provincial headquarters from Livingstone to Choma was that they wanted to leave Livingstone for tourism activities although we have seen a decline in tourist arrivals.

 

Madam Chairperson, before I go into detail, I would like to congratulate the former hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts, Hon. Sylvia Masebo.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Jere: Madam Chairperson, from deep down my heart, I would like to say that she did tremendous work prior to Zambia hosting the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO).Therefore, Livingstone is one of the cities in this country with novendors in the central business area.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!    

 

[THE FIRST CHAIRPERSON in the

Chair]

 

The First Chairperson: I must commend you hon. Members for…

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The First Chairperson: … for making it on time and that we have a quorum.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The First Chairperson: This is the way it should.

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, I wish to report that while progress has been made in the implementation of the Digital Migration Project the ministry is still experiencing challenges with the construction of the two provincial broadcasting stations. The two projects are not moving at the pace we planned to implement them due to lack of financial resources. The ministry has also made progress to deploy staff in the districts with almost all the districts having a District Information Officer. However, we still have challenges of providing tools and equipment to all of them.

 

Madam Chairperson, last month my predecessor gave an update to the House on the progress made regarding the implementation of the Digital Migration Project. I wish to reiterate that after the completion of Phase One of the Digital Migration Project, my ministry has now entered into Phase two and three of the project.

 

Madam Chairperson, phases two and three of the Digital migration project, cover the following:

 

  1. installation of transmitters in the remaining provincial centres and all the remote sites covering the rest of the country;

 

  1. rehabilitation of four production studios for Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) and one for Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS);

 

 

  1. provision of production equipment for ZNBC, ZANIS and all the eight new broadcasting stations that will be constructed;

 

  1. construction of six provincial broadcasting stations in Mongu, Mansa, Chipata, Kabwe, Kasama and Chinsali.

 

 

Mr Kampyongo: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mulenga: The other two provincial broadcasting stations in Choma and Solwezi are already under construction.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mulenga:

 

(e)        provision of 1, 250,000 television receiving systems, recorders, antennas and satellite dishes.

 

Once this project is fully implemented, Madam Chairperson, Zambia will be on the path to total transformation with regards to television services. Every part of this country will be covered with high quality digital television satellite signal.

 

Madam Chairperson, at an appropriate time I will come back to this House to announce the switching off of analogue television services. However, I wish to reiterate that the Digital Migration Project is a huge and expensive undertaking. I once again implore the hon. members of this House to support activities related to the project.

 

Madam Chairperson, I wish to inform the House, also, that the ministry has continued with the provision of radio services in rural areas with the installation of Frequency Modulation (FM) transmitters in various rural districts like Mumbwa, Mufumbwe and Chavuma to mention but only a few.

 

Madam Chairperson, licencing of community media especially radio has been enhanced with a total number of stations now standing 102 and thirty-five television channels.

 

Madam Chairperson, my ministry is committed to contribute to the Government, in terms, of job creation for the youth. In that regard, we have put in place measures to contribute to this creation. Some of the measures are:

 

  1. the construction of provincial broadcasting stations countrywide which will provide a platform for artists to create local content for television; and

 

  1. to ensure that this local content is promoted, all television service providers will be required to meet a 35 percent local content threshold failure to which the Independent Broadcasting Authority will instigate charges.

 

This will create a market for the local film and other content producers. In addition the Digital Migration Project will create 508 direct jobs at the national operations and customer care centres and about 2,000 indirect jobs in form of agents, dealers and installers. In addition, the Provincial Broadcasting Stations will provide a platform for artists in Zambia to create local content for television. This is a surest way to support job creation is the industry and also contribute to the enhancement of our rich artistic local culture and heritage.

 

Madam Chairperson, I wish to inform the House that my ministry has in 2017 to 2019 Medium Term Expenditure Framework prioritise implementation of projects such as digital migration for radio and television, construction and rehabilitation of infrastructure in rural areas and new districts and provision of equipment to ZANIS.

 

Madam Chairperson, the ministry has also prioritised the dismantling of arrears especially personal emoluments related arrears to ensure that the staffs who have retired should be cleared quickly. The ministry will further restructure its activities to ensure that only those with high impact on the mandate of the ministry are adequately resourced. Arising from the prioritisation, therefore, many activities have been discontinued or funding reduced.

 

Madam Chairperson, the ministry has also provided K6,645,971 for dismantling of arrears in the ministry and some of its institutions. In particular, K2 million has been proposed for personal emoluments related arrears for the Zambia Institute of Mass Communication (ZAMCOM). Once the arrears at ZAMCOM the institute will be restructured to ensure it is capacitated to play its rightful role in media development.

 

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion may I assure the House that my ministry with God’s guidance will not only endeavour to fulfil our commitment but also deliver to the best of our ability knowing very well that the Zambian people deserve quality development, news and information. I therefore, urge the hon. Members of the House to support my ministry’s budget.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to debate the vote pertaining to the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am debating this Motion with a heavy heart. I tend to think that all of us on your left, excluding the hon. Ministers, are aggrieved with the way the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting has been managed in the immediately past.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, this particular ministry reminds me of the ways of comical Ali during the Iraqi war.

 

Mr Nkombo: The desert storm.

 

Mr Mwiimbu:It reminds me of the propaganda that was propagated from that particular ministry.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am equating the running of the ministry to the propaganda wing of the Ministry of Information in Iraq as a result of the sentiments that are being aired on Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). You may not be aware that there is a perception among most members of the public that it is no longer ZNBC, but Dead NBC.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: The reason members of the public and I have no regard for this particular ministry is because of the way it is being managed and the propaganda that is being released from it.

 

Madam Chairperson, all of us are aware that this particular broadcasting house, in particular ZNBC, is funded by the public. Every month, when the public pay their television licenses and electricity bills, they pay an amount of money so that this particular institution functions. Unfortunately, this particular news outlet is viewed as a Patriotic Front (PF) propaganda wing.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Shame!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Therefore, most of the people do not even tune to ZNBC.

 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, if the people on your right do not want to hear the truth, it is up to them. However, the truth of the matter is that most of the Zambians now tune to private television and radio stations.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: That is what is happening.

 

Mr Nkombo: The Mast newspaper.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, the public institutions have been perpetuating hate speech in this country and there is no doubt about that.

 

Mr Nkombo: They should close it.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I have evidence to the effect that publicinstitutions are purveyors of hate speech. Recently, one civil servant was aired for more than one hour on ZNBC perpetuating hate speech and there was a directive thatthat hate speech be repeated against the Judges.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Shame!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, why should we allow that? We are aware that the public media is being used to perpetuate tribal hatred in this country. We are also aware that PF members are being covered perpetuating hate speech using the public media and there is no censorship whatsoever.

 

Prof. Luo interjected.

 

Mr Nkombo:Ba Luo ikaleni zii.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I would like ZNBC to also ensure that they publicise petitions that have been lost …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: … so that people have information and there should not be censorship.

 

Madam Chairperson, the point I am driving at is that ZNBC is supposed to be a national broadcaster. Unfortunately, it is not a public broadcaster. This institution does not evenrespect court judgements. Before the 11th August Elections, we got a judgement against ZNBC, but they did not comply because someone had instructed them on how to proceed with that particular issue.

 

Mr Nkombo: Now he is not there.

 

Mr Mwiimbu:Unfortunately, that particular individual alsowants the media to be free in this country.

 

Madam Chairperson, there is no country in the world that succeeds without a free media. Even communist countries do not censor as we do here. They allow members of the public to express themselves as long as they do not commit criminal offences in their endeavour to air their views on the public media.

 

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: However, here in Zambia, anything that is perceived to be anti-Government and even when one is advising constructively, they do not want to hear. It is not correct. The other news outlets, the Zambia Daily Mail and Times of Zambia, are not managed as they were managed in the past. When Mr Matter Painter was one of the editors of the Times of Zambia, they were able to air news for the benefit of the country under very difficult conditions those days. That is what used to happen in the past.

 

Mr Nkombo: When we had a dictator.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, the Times of Zambia has lost its glory. It is no longer glorified as it was in the past because of the editorial policies that have been imposed by the Government.

 

Prof. Luo: Mulebelenga The Mast kaili.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mwiimbu:Madam Chairperson, The Mast is not a public newspaper, but a private publication. We are debating the vote for the public media which include Zambia Daily Mail, Times of Zambia and ZNBC. These institutions belong to the people. They do not belong to the Government or political parties. All of us must be given the space and right to be heard.

 

Madam Chairperson, I can assure you that the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting requires the intercession of the Ministry of Religious Affairs and National Guidance …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: … because it is actually fuelling tension in this country. If there was proper guidance, tension in this country would have been reducing through media houses. However, we are not doing that.

 

Prof. Luo: It is imaginary!

 

Mr Mwiimbu:Madam Chairperson, I am aware of people who thrive to be independent of wisdom.

 

The First Chairperson: Ignore them and address the Chair.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: I said Madam Chairperson, I am aware of people who thrive to be independent of wisdom.

 

Mr Nkombo: They do not like wisdom.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: They have been struggling for independence of wisdom for a long time.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, the point which all of us must realise is that I cannot debate the private media because they are not funded by the Government. We are talking about the public media that is funded by the Government and that is the point I am making.

 

Madam Chairperson, we are all aware that the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting on the Floor of this House defended ZNBC and said that they had been complying with the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA) Act. However, the truth of the matter is that the IBA Act is not empowered to regulate ZNBC. That is what the law says. It was deliberate and they did not want ZNBC to be regulated bythe IBA like other media houses. As a result, ZNBC is behaving with impunity pertaining to the rights of members of the public to be heard because they are not regulated by the IBA.

Why should this country have laws that discriminate against other institutions? ZNBC is a broadcaster just like any other. Therefore, it must be regulated by the IBA. I want to hear what the hon. Minister will say regarding the regulation. I want to hear if she will say that ZNBC is governed by the IBA. The truth is that it is not.

 

Madam Chairperson, as hon. Members on your right, we want to state that if things do not change, we are going to challenge the issue of paying the TV levy to ZNBC.

 

Mr Nkombo: Through the courts.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: We will challenge that through the courts of law so that the courts can rule that we should not pay. Only those who have eyes to watch ZNBC should continue doing that.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Lusambo: So, what are you going to be watching? It is impractical.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, someone is saying it is impractical.

 

Hon. Government Members: Which law?

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, what I state pertaining to the law, usually comes to pass. I told you that hon. Ministers would be liable for continuing to be in office after Parliament had been dissolved.

 

Hon. Government Members: Fourteen days!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, fourteen days... we are going to court on Thursday.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Do you not know that? It has not ended.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwiimbu: It will never end.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Masholi!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Only losses in the election petitions will end.

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Mwiimbu, please address the Vote.

 

Hon. Mwiimbu resumed his seat.

 

The First Chairperson: You may continue, but please address the subject that we are discussing.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, they are saying I should ignore them. I am not going to ignore them if they continue commenting.

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Members, let us listen to Mr Mwiimbu. He has the Floor.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I am making an earnest appeal to the Government that it should ensure that the laws of this country are respected. When you create a public institution, it must not only be seen to be a public institution, but it must play its role as a public institution. I am referring to ZNBC, Times of Zambia and the Zambia Daily Mail. Today, we are apportioning money and budgeting for these three institutions entailing that they are public institutions, then they must be accountable to this House. If they do not, as I said, we are going to seek the court’s intervention regarding the paying of TV levy to ZNBC. It is not a threat. We are going to do it. We want these three institutions to behave and operate as public institutions. I am not asking or pleading for that to be done. I am demanding that it must be done on behalf of the people of Zambia.

 

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam.

 

The First Chairperson: No points of order. Please sit down, hon. Member. Hon. Mwiimbu, you may continue.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, thank you for advising people who do not learn despite having been in the House for a long time. I am saying, ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

 

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Madam.

 

The First Chairperson: I have just ruled that I will not allow points of order. Please sit down.

 

Mr Chilangwa interjected.

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Minister, please sit down.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I am requesting the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting to adhere to the laws of this country and ensure that these particular institutions serve the people of Zambia and not particular institutions.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kundoti (Luena): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Vote.

 

Indeed, it is somehow painful to debate this issue. The media in Zambia, especially the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), the Zambia Daily Mail and the Times of Zambia are institutions which do not offer a satisfactory service to the public despite the public spending money to get a service from them. I say so because these media institutions do not live up to the standard which satisfies the general populace. Looking at the performance of ZNBC, I may agree with the previous speaker who said ZNBC seems to be the Patriotic Front (PF) mouth piece. I agree with that statement because of the way ZNBC carries out its news coverage. This has been a public outcry. The people of this country know that watching the 1900 hours main news is not impressive because it is all about the President, the Vice-President, the Minister and the PF. It is as if ZNBC is there to strictly give coverage to the PF.

 

Mr Lusambo: Strictly PF or the Government.

 

Mr Kundoti: Madam Chairperson, the Government does not own ZNBC. It is owned by the people of Zambia. You and I own ZNBC. Time will come when the PF will realise that it made a mistake, ...

 

Mr Kampyongo: Aah! Landenifye ifya mano naimwe.

 

Mr Kundoti: Madam, time will come when the PF will no longer be in Government and it will realise that it made a mistake by not allowing ZNBC to operate freely.

 

Mr Lusambo: They are covering you right now (pointing at a ZNBC cameraman).

 

Mr Kundoti: Madam Chairperson, I worked for ZNBC and so, I know how it operates.

 

Mr Daka: Ulula.

 

Mr Kundoti: Madam Chairperson, I cannot be cheated about what goes on there.

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Member, you cannot say cheated in this House. It is unparliamentary.

 

Hon. Opposition members: Deceived.

 

Mr Kundoti: Madam, I cannot be deceived by anybody regarding what goes on at ZNBC. I know about the interference that goes on there.

 

Hon. Government Members: Ulula. Tell us!

 

Mr Kundoti: Madam, I know how the invisible hand moves in and twists the hand of the editors in the newsroom. Therefore, you cannot deceive me. However, what I want to say is that may ZNBC be allowed to operate freely. The people who work for these three media institutions are professionals who know their work and should, therefore, be left to operate freely.

 

If the Patriotic Front (PF) tames these three media public bodies under their control, so that they do as they wish, then they are depriving this nation of the information it needs.

 

Mr Chikote: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kundoti: You are depriving this nation of the essential information it needs. Hence, people will rush to buy the Mast Newspaper.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kundoti: This is where they will find real information.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kundoti: I want to take this opportunity and encourage everyone to buy the Mast Newspaper and support it.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kundoti: This is where the news is.

 

Mr Kundoti: These three media bodies are misused and abused to a point where they are not even taken care of. As I speak, hon. Minister, the equipment at the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) is in a deplorable state. You know very well that at the moment, ZNBC has no transport facilities. Meanwhile, day in day out, these people are being used.

 

This Government has failed to buy the corporation cameras.

 

Mr Lusambo: Ngeyo bale bonfya?!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Kundoti: Madam Chairperson, ZNBC is supposed to be a mouthpiece for the country. However, this can only be achieved if the corporation has the equipment that it needs. The technical side of ZNBC is in bad shape. The equipment is deplorable. The signal quality from ZNBC machinery is very poor indeed. What are you, as Government, doing about it? Meanwhile, you are busy abusing the institution.

 

The studio transmission link that the corporation has right now does not function. It is a bad state. Radio processors are all in a deplorable state. I know that you see these things. For example, one would be watching television and all of a sudden the quality is bad. One would be listening to the radio and suddenly there is bad quality transmission. Try tuning into a private radio station; the quality is of high standard. The quality on ZNBC Radio is muffled because machinery is obsolete. Hon. Minister, even as we approve the budget for your ministry, we would love to see you pay attention to improving the equipment that is being used by these public media institutions, especially ZNBC. We want to see improvement of the equipment in these institutions. 

 

Madam Chairperson, the other issue that the hon. Minister needs to take care of is the fact that staff at the ministry fly out to go and carryout negotiations on issues that pertain to engineering, leaving out qualified engineers, who are better positioned to negotiate and assess the equipment to be brought into the country. However, because of allowances, non-essential staff goes. Situations where officers, who know nothing about engineering, whatsoever, put themselves on trips to China to negotiate engineering matters should come to an end. Let the people who are qualified take up such trips so that the right equipment is brought into the country to boost the broadcasting station.

 

Madam Chairperson, digital migration is supposed to be operational along the line of rail at the moment.

 

Mr Lusambo: Is it

Mr Kundoti: Yes, but where are the decoders? They are in the hands of the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. Why do you not sell these decoders to the general public so that they can start to enjoy the digital broadcasting signal?  Please, can we see to it that this budget, as we approve it, is used for what it is intended? We want the nitty gritties to fall into place.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to debate.

 

Madam, a Ministry of Information is critical for a civilised country. In Zambia, we have reduced the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting to a department of the Patriotic Front (PF) ...

 

Mr Lusambo: My son, are you sure?

 

Mr Muchima: …propaganda.

 

Mr Lusambo: Are you sure, my son?

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, fifty-two years after independence, every corner of Zambia is supposed to have access to radio and television transmission. In order to achieve socio-economic development, an effective monitoring mechanism is needed. Today, this ministry has been pre-occupied with propaganda for the party. This is against the will of the Zambian people. 

 

I am happy that the hon. Minister of Finance is an accountant who wants to be accountable. We have seen hon. Minister, what you have put in this Yellow Book. This ministry has not been performing well. The people of Zambia expected this ministry to be more evolving. Today, seed has not been delivered to most parts of the country.

Interruptions

 

Mr Muchima: It is ZNBC, through the Zambia News Agency (ZANIS), which is supposed to disclose this.

 

Madam Chairperson, bridges are being washed away. The Solwezi/Chingola Road is in a very poor state and we have to learn all this through social media and yet we have Government machinery that is supposed to be monitoring.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: The corporation is supposed to reveal the negatives so that this Government takes action. The unfortunate part is that we always come here to debate but never take a stance to change. It is time to change.

 

Hon. Minister of Finance (pointing at Hon. Mutati), tell them that it is time to change.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: You have professionals.

 

The First Deputy Chairperson: I am very worried about that finger, Hon. Muchima.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, it is not my finger.  Is it finger or Mafinga?

 

Laughter

 

The First Chairperson: Your finger. The one you are using to point at the Government side. Try and avoid that.

Mr Muchima: I thank you, Madam.

 

Madam Chairperson, this country needs to come out of its cocoon. We need to be representatives of the people.

 

Mr Nkombo: Do not use your finger, again.

 

Mr Muchima: I have been asked to stop using my finger. Now, I will use …

 

Mr Nkombo: Your thumb!

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, the levels of illiteracy in this country are very high. One of the reasons is that people have no access to information. People are depending on cable television and yet we have ZNBC.

 

Madam Chairperson, when the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) was in power, Mwinilunga was able to access the Zambian National Broaching Corporation (ZNBC) signals. When the Patriotic Front (PF) took over power, the frequency is no longer accessible. We cannot even listen to the radio. It is worse with Ikeleng’i and we are taking everything that we hear as a rumour because people are depending on the social media, which is very effective. I would even prefer the hon. Minister to be called Minister of the social media …

 

 Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: … than to be called hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting because it is not adequately represented while the social media is well very represented. We are getting a lot of information about this country through the social media. The social media is covering the entire country and yet, this is the mandate of the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting.

 

Madam, I want to concur with what my brother was saying. If you went to ZNBC today, you will be shocked to see the furniture that is in the building. When you look at the roof, members of staff who are inside the building are using umbrellas to cover themselves because the roof leaks.

 

 Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam, I would like to implore the hon. Minister of Finance to help the ZNBC because this is one of the institutions which has bad balance sheet. The reason for this problem is simple. This institution is misused because it is not operating as a corporation, but as a tool for the Government and as such, it is not making any business at all. The Ministry of Information and Broadcasting is critical to you, in Government and the Opposition.

 

Madam Chairperson, I advise to tell Hon. Kampyongo that any information concerning all the activities of the police, District Commissioners (DCs) and everyone in each and every corner of Zambia, issues to do with the schools, the infrastructure which have not development, the seed and the fertilizer which has not been delivered to all the areas where it is needed is required to for everyone to be aware of what is happening. This information is supposed to reach that important ministry for the Government to react. Suffice to say that what we are seeing today is the opposite. The news is known to be pre-determined one sided. This is why they have made the MOVI Television to be a popular TV…

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: … because it cuts across and yet, the National broadcaster is there.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is unfortunate that whatever we are debating is just going in and coming out quickly.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam, the proper minister and effective Hon. Minister would take a leaf from what we are debating and go and sit with the professionals at the ministry. It is unfortunate that people who are trained, are professionals and who are supposed to advise you are moved away from the ministry when they try to be advising these politicians who have no knowledge about the issues that we are talking about, but they want to be directing them instead of him listening from the professionals on how we should run the institution.

 

Madam, when we are talking about the digital migration, there are same people who are supposed to advise you. What you need to do is to pay them well because that institution can make a lot of money. We have seen simple cameramen around. They buy vehicles and are operating effectively, yet a Government institution is failing. If I were the minister responsible for this ministry, I would ask why an individual should be more effective than a Government institution.

 

Madam, if the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting wants me to support this budget, I want to challenge her that I want to start watching television and listening to radio communication in Ikeleng’i. when that is done, then, I will say that she is also an effective hon. Minister. Otherwise, the budget we are talking about is just a waste of time. We want to see how effective the minister is.

 

Madam, there should be change in the way we think. Tell the Zambian people that we reformed and that we have moved away from what more political to serving the people of Zambia. Currently, the civil servants are being fired everywhere, but the information is not being reported or not even hearing that all those who supported the UPND are being fired and yet, there were also civil servants who were supporting and were politically involved with the PF. In fact, they were teachers who were supporting the PF and were not even teaching, but they are not affected. This is the information that we want so that we debate it so that people are aware on how the PF are governing and how they are applying the social governance in this country. Suffice to say that that is not happening, but instead, they are just sweeping everything under the carpet. The Zambian people want an effective Ministry of Information and Broadcasting.

 

Madam, if she is not listening, I want to tell her that I am speaking form the vast experience. You should be a proper hon. Minister that is going to be responsible to the people at large. Unfortunately, this budgetary appropriation does not come from the party. It is a cool and it is from all of us even those of us who are doing business.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about the access to information and legislation, which the PF talked about.

 

Madam, I want to know where the Bill on the independent of the media is and what happened to it because it was among the songs of the ‘ninety days.’ What has happened to the discriminatory behaviour of closing the some media houses? Is that what we want as a nation? We need to be redeemed and indeed, the Ministry of Christian Affairs or something like that?

 

 Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, the issue of violence is supposed to be reported accurately. We need to be covered effectively. As an opposition hon. Member, I need to walk to ZNBC and air whatever I have to the public, but unfortunately, with the party in Government, I might be cited tomorrow for trespassing and I will be arrested and yet, that is a public institution. This is not the way we should be discharging governance.

 

 Madam, this nation needs transparency. We need the cameras that e are seeing to be available for every Zambian so that we can learn al lot. Of course, you are cutting yourself from information. What we are hearing and how you are competing with the social leaves much to be desired. We are seeing that the social media is more effective. So, it is up to you to measure yourselves and come to the expectation of the public.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want to tell them today, that there is poor radio communication everywhere. What is expected of this institution is to move from the current level to higher heights. People are tired and sick of what they are seeing on ZNBC every day. Let there be change.

 

Madam, people are comparing the administration the administration of the MMD to that of the PF. They want to see is there is any political will, but I can see that there is good political good will. I am talking about a calculated good political will which can be translated onto the balance sheet. We are seeing that the Zambian people are deprived of good governance. Today, we do not have an institution, which can prevent them. We need you, people in Government to stand and fight for the people of Zambia.

 

We expect a lady hon. Minister, a mother and young lady to open the hearts of those hardcores who do not want to listen. Since you new, we want a change, coverage and attention in this country. We have listened to whatever, you have talked about today, but we want effective implementation. I am sure the hon. Minister of Finance will assist you to achieve what you intend to accomplish. We are also pointing fingers at him to see how effective the entire budget will be like because we need this information to be communicated and see what it will achieve.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am supporting the budget for this ministry on account that they will change, that the ZNBC will start responding to the needs of the people and that from now onwards, the ZNBC signals will reach Liuwa, Mwinilunga Chama, Dundumwezi …

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Muchima: … to monitor the agriculture inputs, bridges, roads and those who are being fired.

 

Mr Lusambo interjected.

 

Mr Muchima: Television coverage should not be a preserve of only those that praise the Patriotic Front (PF). We need a balanced diet in terms of news from the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). Even a person who only eats meat dies.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Like die hard.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: If you eat only chilemba, which is beans, all the time, you will have a problem. So, there is need to strike a balance in order to have effective information dissemination around the country.

 

Prof Luo interjected.

 

Mr Muchima: By the way, what we hear about Chinsali, where some of you cannot go and stand, but prefer to run away and stand in Munali …

 

Laughter

 

The First Chairperson: Order, Hon. Muchima!

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, she is provoking me. She is the one who started.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Muchima: Madam Chairperson, away from that, I want to state that we need an effective information tool for this country. The levels of biasness we have reached are very high. Information dissemination is very important and therefore, we want the Access to Information Bill to come before this House as soon as possible. Nonetheless, I support this Vote.

 

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Chairperson, it is with a very heavy heart that I stand to support the Vote for the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. First of all, none of the three public media institutions, which are said to operate in national interest and so forth, can be accessed in Mitete. However, the civil servants and general population of Mitete contribute to this ministry’s budget through tax. Why do we pay television (TV) levy, for instance, if we are cannot even watch the President or Vice-President on TV or hear them on radio? These things are not there in Mitete.

 

Hon. UPND Members: You are not in Zambia.

 

Mr Mutelo: Mitete is in Zambia, although I am told that we are not in Zambia.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: We cannot watch the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) channels in Mitete. Even the radio signal, akuna, which means there is nothing. Aliyo, alulizibi zee.

 

Hon. Members: Meaning?

 

Mr Mutelo: That means that we do not know of these things. I think the name of this ministry should just be changed to the ministry of informing urban areas or Lusaka or something like that. How can we say ZNBC is a national broadcaster when it does not reach every part of this country? Where does the term ‘national’ apply in what it is doing?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: Quite alright, we will support this Vote, but for heaven’s sake, what is this ministry doing for Mitete?

 

Ms Kapata: We will come.

 

Mr Mutelo: When are you coming?

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: This is fifty-two years after this country got its independence.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Chairperson, beyond any media house or news organisation is a journalist. A journalist is at his or her best only with the latest information. At the rate we are moving in Zambia, however, journalism shall soon become an un-bailable professional, like some un-bailable offenses in this country.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mutelo: If you are a journalist in Zambia …

 

Mr Kampyongo: Balekumona pa TV!

 

Mr Mutelo: … you have to report in a certain way to be a sacred cow. Those that are not sacred cows will soon find that theirs is an un-bailable profession.  Only those who report as they are directed or told, instead of the truth in what they have seen or captured, are said to be good journalists in Zambia. No wonder we are even struggling to have the Access to Information Bill enacted in Zambia. Five years have passed since this process start and we are now hearing that it will be completed in two months. You will recall that initially it said that this Bill would be enacted within ninety days, which is three months, but five years have since passed.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Chairperson, can the hon. Minister inform us when the Access to Information Bill shall be brought to this House or shall we continue just singing about it? I am already getting annoyed because this …

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mutelo: Seriously, though, I am actually questioning myself why I am even debating this Vote, which is of no use to Mitete. Why should I contribute to this matter?

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mapenyani be annoyed now.

 

Mr Mutelo: Today, accurate reporting is becoming a dead issue. When you report what is right, you are wrong. When you report what is wrong, you are right. That is the state of the media in Zambia today. It is very normal to see all sorts of contradictions on TV. For example, when there was a power blackout in five provinces recently, we were initially told that it was because of natural calamities. A few days later, the story changed and it was reported that this was because of explosives that had been placed by some people. This was from the same mouthpiece; ZNBC.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Mutelo: Therefore, what should we believe in? Which should we take as the truthful report between the two? This is why I said journalists are being told what to report, instead of what they have seen or captured or the situation on the ground. In Zambia, when you report what you are told, then you are following the ethics of journalism. When you report what is true, you are unethical or unprofessional.

 

Madam Chairperson, I think my heart is getting heavier. Therefore, with these very few words, thank you very much.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The Minister of Agriculture Ms Siliya): Madam Chairperson, I know that this is a very long Sitting, so I will not take much time. I just want to refer to one issue that keeps coming up, which is the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). ZNBC is a public institution accountable to the people of Zambia. It is just like political parties, which are public institutions accountable to their members. This is why we congratulate, once again, the party that just had a convention for doing the right thing.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! National Restoration Party (NAREP)!

 

Ms Siliya: Madam Chairperson, running a country is a political process. It is not charity. We should understand that running a country includes politics and politics is about fighting for a space for the best ideas put forward. It is unthinkable that a responsible government would not have a mouth piece. Even in the United States of America (USA), they have Fox Television. In Britain, they have the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC), in China, they have the China Central Television (CCTV). Even if the United Party for National Development UPND came into power by whatever misfortunate, they would want to have a mouth piece.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Minister, withdraw the word “Misfortune.” Let us not flare the House.

 

Ms Siliya: The word is withdrawn.

 

Madam Chairperson, the test of the performance of a propaganda mouth piece is reflected on how the people vote in a democratic society.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: If indeed, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) has been putting forward propaganda, in times of the United National Independence Party (UNIP), the people appreciated that propaganda and voted for UNIP until they were fed up. In times of the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD), the people appreciated that propaganda until they changed their minds. I believe that the same principle will apply for this Government. The people showed very recently in August that they liked the propaganda that was referred to commonly as “Sonta epo wa bomba,” meaning “Show what you did.” They liked the propaganda on roads. They liked the propaganda on housing. They liked the propaganda on shopping malls. They liked the propaganda on the infrastructure for education and universities. They liked the propaganda on clinics.

 

Interruptions

 

The first Chairperson: Order!

 

Ms Siliya: The people liked the propaganda.

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

Order, hon. Minister. Let us just get some calm in the House. When you were debating on the left, there was some order in the House. The hon. Minister is now debating on behalf of the right. Allow her to debate.

 

The hon. Minister may continue.

 

Ms Siliya: Madam Chairperson, we just saw in one country in the West a very divisive election, but at the end of the day, the winners become the biggest news. The winner of the election was even put as the Man of the Year in Time magazine.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: It is the same principle working in this country that when one becomes President, they will be number one on the news. 

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: What this country has done well is that it has offered a very liberal media so that people have a choice because what citizens need in a country is a choice. Those who do not subscribe to ZNBC can watch other media. That is what this country has done and that is progress.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: That is called progress.

 

Madam Chairperson, I heard a lot of insinuations that most of the news in this country is from social media. That is actually not correct. A lot of people appreciate that social media has a lot of unproductive people who peddle lies ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: ... and a lot of Zambians believe that when something happens in this country ...

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

Withdraw the word “Lies” hon. Minister.

 

Ms Siliya: There are a lot of people who peddle untruths. A lot of Zambians believe that when they have to hear an important situation or decision in this country, they need to watch ZNBC ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: ... and this is the reason I commiserate with the hon. Member of Parliament from Mitete. He appreciates the point that ZNBC is important. That is why he is looking to have ZNBC in Mitete. How else will he show the people from Mitete the work he is doing without ZNBC? That is why I commiserate with my brother. I feel for him and I am sure that the hon.  Minister of Information and Broadcasting is able to provide the necessary things required for Mitete to have ZNBC there.

 

Madam Chairperson, I did say that running a country was a political process. It is us politicians who abuse the media. Very recently, Hon. Syakalima and myself used to complain about how The Post newspaper used to cover the Patriotic Front (PF) at that time.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: It is us the politicians who confuse the media.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: We do, and then when it suits us, we pretend that the media is not oaky. No, no! I think that in terms of consistency, ZNBC as a public broadcaster has been extremely consistent because it has been able to serve whichever Government has come into office ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

 

Ms Siliya: ... and that is its whole purpose, to serve the Zambian citizens. It needs to explain how each Government, not this just this one, accounts for the resources in the country.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Siliya: Madam Chairperson, I said that I will not take much time. I appreciate that there are challenges at ZNBC. It is true. There are infrastructural challenges at ZNBC and the other media houses such as the Times of Zambia and the Zambia Daily Mail, but I think that does not take away from the basic principle that a Government mouth piece will be just that. I think we should even be thankful and grateful that in this country, we have been able to manage a Government mouth piece alongside the private media because God forbid, some Governments in the future might even shut down the private media so that only them can be heard.

 

Madam Chairperson, I support this Vote completely.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank all the hon. Members of Parliament who have contributed to the debate and I want to assure them that their concerns and contributions will be looked into under my ministry.

 

I will go straight to Hon. Mwiimbu who said that he does not watch the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). However, my question is: How does he know so much about ZNBC television if he does not watch it? I would like to assure Hon. Mwiimbu that ZNBC is a public media institution and it has its role.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

 

Ms Mulenga: It is a public Government institution.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Minister, please do not respond to the others on the left. Just address the House.

 

Ms Mulenga: I repeat, ZNBC is a public media institution,

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, Hon. Mwiimbu went on to talk about the Zambia Daily Mail and the Times of Zambia. My response to him is that the ministry does not have any direct influence in the editorial policy of ZNBC ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mulenga: ... and our focus is on policy.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would also like to comment on Hon. Kadoti’s ...

 

Laughter

 

Ms Mulenga: Kundoti! Sorry hon. Member. Sorry I cannot pronounce the name.

 

He talked about the rehabilitation of ZNBC infrastructure and the signal. I think in my policy statement, I made it very clear that phase two and phase three of the ministry’s programme to address these issues will look into the signal and transmission issues. So, the hon. Members on the left have to pay more attention as the policy statements are made.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mulenga: I want to comment on Hon. Muchimba’s ...

 

Laughter

 

Ms Mulenga: ... debate. His concern was: When will ZNBC television be available in Ikeleng’i? My response to that is that digital television will cover the whole country and I think that was clearly outlined in policy statement. The phase two and three of implementing this activity has already begun. So, in eight months, there will be ZNBC coverage in the whole country.

 

The Access to Information Bill which he mentioned was adequately covered in the Bill of Rights which I think the hon. Members on the left de-campaigned and so, it did not go through in the referendum. So, at an appropriate time, this issue will be addressed.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would like to go straight into addressing Hon. Mutelo’s concerns over lack of radio and television in Mitete and many other parts of the country.

 

Mr Belemu: Go into whom?

 

Laughter

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Mulenga: In response to those concerns, I would like to assure hon. Members that after eighteen months, we will cover television signal throughout the country.

 

Hon. Members, we are also rolling out radio services in rural areas in phases due to limited resources. So, my ministry is actually looking into those areas.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would also like to thank Hon. Siliya who adequately elaborated on the role of Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). I wish to remind hon. Members that ZNBC has not just been around in the time of the Patriotic Front (PF) but it has been there as a public media institution during the time of United National Independence Party (UNIP), Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and now the PF. Its role is to give its citizenry the information and developmental projects that Government is undertaking.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

 

Ms Mulenga: So, if people on the left get offended when PF is at work and delivering to its citizenry and these issues are televised on ZNBC, then it leaves much to be desired. ZNBC at no time will stop televising and giving our citizens the information that is required.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mulenga: This Government is ready to dialogue with the public sector in terms of the media industry.

 

Hon. Government Member: Naupwisha!

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, I want to assure hon. Members that my ministry, under the leadership of Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, the Republican President, …

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Ms Mulenga: … is committed to improving the media industry whether print or electronic in this regard, so that we a well informed citizenry.

 

Madam Chairperson, this is a committed Government that will ensure that in the next month this country moves from analogue to digital. My ministry is committed to an open door policy and the concerns of our private media houses would be addressed through dialogue.

 

This ministry also expects the media to report reasonably, truthfully and reporting which is ethical. As negative reporting might and will bring a negative impact on tourism, infrastructure development, investments and households. So, I expect these media houses also take charge and responsibility in the way that they report.

 

I want to thank you most especially, Madam Chairperson, and everybody that have contributed and supporting this budget.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Interruptions

 

The Chairperson: Order!

 

VOTE 26/01 – (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting ServiceHuman Resources and Administration – K17,137,157)

 

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Madam Chairperson, …

 

Mr Mushanga: The Chair thought you were going!

 

Laughter

 

The Chairperson: I actually thought that you were going out!

 

Laughter

 

Ms Lubezhi: … thank you, may I have clarification on Programme 5001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K606,265 and Programme 5007, Activity 011 – Goods and Services – K1,528,284, I have noticed that on Office Administration there is about 100 per cent increment on this allocation and on Goods and Services there is also about 200 per cent increment on that allocation. May I kindly know what has necessitated these increments?

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, the provision will be used for the payment of expenses such as office rentals at Government Complex, office materials and newspapers. The increase is due to increased cost of rental charges, office materials and newspapers.

 

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5002, Activity 045 …

 

The Chairperson: There is no Activity 045.

 

Mr Mutelo: … Activity 043 – World Intellectual Property Day – K50,000. This allocation has been increased from K1,289 to K50,000. What has necessitated such a tremendous increase?

 

Mr Kampyongo: Ipusheni fye bwino!

 

Laughter

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, the provision will be used for materials to facilitate commemoration of the event. The increase is due to the central role the ministry will play in the commemoration.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5007, Activity 022 – Dismantling of Arrears – PE – K1,488,338, Personal Emoluments has risen from K150,000 to K1,488,338 reflecting ten times more of the increment. Can the hon. Minister justify that raise and why?

 

Ms Mulenga: Which programme?

 

The Chairperson: Programme 5007, Activity 022 – Dismantling of Arrears – PE.

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, the provision will be used for payment of Personal Emoluments, related outstanding bills such as settling in allowances, leave travel benefits and other personal emoluments related expenses. The increase is due to increased outstanding bills over a period of time.

 

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: These are the only three Members that I will allow to seek clarification.

 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Madam Chairperson, Programme 5012, Activity 035 – Implementation of HIV/AIDS Work Place Policy – Nil. This is year there was a provision of K40,710 but for 2017, no amount has been allocated. May I know why?

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, the provision was used for the implementation of the HIV/AIDS Work Place Policy. The activity has not been provided for due to limited resources.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Ms Lubezhi: Madam Chairperson, may I seek clarification on Programme 5026, Activity 049 – Restructuring of the Ministry – K130,000, may you kindly shed more light what you want to restructure in the ministry and then page 409 …

 

The Chairperson: No! Let her deal with this question first.

 

Ms Lubezhi: Will I be allowed again?

 

The Chairperson: One question only. Sit down Ms Lubezhi.

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, the provision involves conducting of the restructuring exercise in the provinces. The increase is due to increased number of new districts.

 

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Ms Lubezhi indicated to speak.

 

The First Chairperson: Please seat down. When you stand to ask a question, there can only be order if you ask one. After the hon. Minister answers, if there is an opportunity, you can ask again. Please bear in mind what I said, we need to progress.

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Chairperson, my question has been overtaken by events.

 

Ms Lubezhi: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5031, Activity 002 – Procurement and Supply Services – K96,336 and Programme 5031 Activity 002 – Procurement and Supply Services – K244,129. What is this procurement and supply services which is duplicated in the same programme? It also appears on page 410.

 

The First Chairperson: We are not on page 410 yet.

 

Ms Lubezhi: Then she can answer the question relating to page 409.

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, Programme 5031, Activity 002 – Procurement and Supply Services – K96,336 and Programme 5031 Activity 002 – Procurement and Supply Services – K244,129, these are two different programmes. The provision will used for the procurement of consumable requirements for units such as stationary, tonner, paper and other unit requirements. The provision is a result of having each unit account for their requirements.

 

I thank you.

 

Vote 26/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

 

VOTE 26/02 (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services Zambia News and Information Services – K18,544,560)

 

Ms Lubezhi: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5032, Activity 011 – Government TV News Channel – K374,000. What Government TV news channel is this?

 

The First Chairperson: Can you repeat your question.

 

Ms Lubezhi: Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5032, Activity 011 – Government TV News Channel – K374,000. What Government TV news channel is this?

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, Programme 5032, Activity 011 – Government TV News Channel – K374,000, it is a Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS) channel to gather information.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Prof. Lungwangwa: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5007, Activity 020 – Outstanding Bills – K1,629,349. The amount has risen from K240,000 to K1,629,349. Can the hon. Minister justify this increase?

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, Programme 5007, Activity 020 – Outstanding Bills – K1,629,349, the provision is meant for payment of outstanding bills. The figure has increased to increased outstanding bills and the decision made to reduce the debt.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K300,403, Activity 019 – Transport Management – K1,079,192 and Activity 040 – Utility Bill – K259, 162. Why have those amounts not changed as if the cost of living is still the same?

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, Programme 5001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K300,403, Activity 019 – Transport Management – K1,079,192 and Activity 040 – Utility Bill – K259, 162, the figures have not changed due to Budget constraints.

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5001, Activity 003 – Procurement of Mobile Video Vans – K1,700,400. Why are we intending to procure vans next year when we procured them this year?

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, Programme 5001, Activity 003 – Procurement of Mobile Video Vans – K1,700,400, the vans that we procured this year are not enough and the new ones will be more technical.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Vote 26/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

 

VOTE 26/03 (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services Planning and Information – K34,955,247)

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5134, Activity 007 – Ministerial Budget Preparation – K78,900. Why has the allocation just to prepare a ministerial budget almost doubled?

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, Programme 5134, Activity 007 – Ministerial Budget Preparation – K78,900, the provision is meant to facilitate the preparation of the ministerial budget. The increase is due to increased pricing of services and material such a stationary on the market.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Vote 26/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

 

VOTE 26/04 (Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services Press and Media Development– K15,548,995)

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5007, Activity 020 – Outstanding Bills – K2,000,000.

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. Government Member: You stand up if you cannot pronounce it.

 

Mr Mutelo: It is me who is upstanding not you.

 

Laughter

 

The First Chairperson: Can you ask your question.

 

Mr Mutelo: What is this K2,000,000 for? Which bills are we dismantling?

 

Ms Mulenga: Madam Chairperson, the provision is meant to clear all outstanding bills related to the Zambia Institute of Mass Communication (ZAMCOM). This will enable the ministry restructure the institution and make it more vibrant. It will also enable the institution introduce courses in media and film production.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Vote 26/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Hon. UPND Members: You did not put the question!

 

The First Chairperson: I already put the question.

 

Hon. UPND Members: No!

 

VOTE 33 – (Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry – K597,278,873).

 

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mrs Mwanakatwe): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to present the 2017 Budget for my ministry.  I want to start by adding my voice of condolences to the passing away of Hon. Mukondo Lungu, May His Soul Rest in Eternal Peace.

 

Madam Chairperson, I congratulate my colleague and counterpart, the hon. Minister of Finance, on his clear articulation of Government’s economic and social agenda for this country. He ably captured the essence of what this Government stands for and the bold steps we are willing to take to restore “fiscal fitness for sustained inclusive growth and development.”

 

Madam Chairperson, as this is also my maiden speech in this session of the House, let me preface my statement by congratulating the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu on his successful re-election.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: His re-election and that of Her Honour the Vice-President, Madam Inonge Wina is a demonstration of the confidence that the people of Zambia have in his leadership and that of the Patriotic Front (PF).

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, I also congratulate you and the Second Deputy Speaker for your election as well as Mr Speaker for his re-election to preside over the affairs of the National Assembly.   I am confident that with this leadership, we will fulfill our Constitutional mandate as legislators and be an effective platform for the representation of the will of the Zambian people. Let me congratulate all Members of Parliament on both sides of the House on their re-election as representatives of their constituencies. We each, have been given a unique and privilege opportunity to serve the people of this great nation. It is a responsibility we must satisfy with great humility, sincerity and passion.

 

Madam Chairperson, the 2017 Budget represents both a candid introspection of where we are coming from as a country and a practical, yet ambitious outlook for our common future. Arriving at the 2017 Budget was not an easy task. It is not a secret that the Zambian economy took quite a decline in economic growth in 2015 and 2016, faced with an economically difficult global and domestic environment. The economic challenges spared no one. For instance, we experienced a decline in total exports and recorded the first ever negative trade balance in 2015, since the year 2006. The energy deficits caused distress for small and large businesses alike, whether selling timber at Buseko Market, selling food stuffs at Soweto Market or the Managing Director working in a bank.

 

Madam Chairperson, these entrepreneurs spread right across the country are the sources of revenue to support the National Budget through the taxes, fees and levies that they pay. When they are under stress, the Government is under stress too. We were candid with ourselves about this reality as we arrived at the 2017 Budget.

 

Madam Chairperson, rather than take easy decisions, the 2017 Budget is a statement of boldness, decisiveness and commitment on the part of this Government. We have chosen to work fervently towards the difficult task of restoring stability.

 

Madam Chairperson, one of the five pillars of the Economic Recovery Programme espoused in the 2017 Budget relates to “ensuring greater economic stability, growth and job creation.” Under this pillar, the Government seeks to support the creation of at least 100,000 of descent jobs in 2017. Over 30 per cent of the Government expenditure has been allocated to economic affairs with the aim of supporting industrialisation and job creation.

 

Madam Chairperson, we have proposed general and specific interventions to boost production and productivity focused on value addition in the agriculture, fisheries, livestock, mining and forestry sectors. These include provision of fiscal and non-fiscal incentives. Increased productivity in these sectors as well as addressing trade barriers will positively contribute to industrialisation and job creation. It is important therefore, to point out that the measures in the Budget are only effective if the private sector take full advantage. It is my intention to ensure we actively and continuously collaborate with the producers and manufactures in this endeavour.

 

Madam Chairperson, coming to my ministry, among the achievements scored in 2016, include the signing of Bilateral Trade Agreements with Angola and the Congo Democratic Republic (Congo DR) in a bid to enhance market access for the Zambian products into the huge and nearby markets. We enacted laws to strengthen industrial property and traditional knowledge and folklore. This was in addition to laws to facilitate access to finance for Small and Medium Entrepreneurs (SMEs) through the use of moveable assets as collateral.

 

Madam Chairperson, through the Value Chain Development Programme, the Government is supporting more than a thousand projects countrywide, with unprecedented outreach to women and youths, including the resultant job creation in the rural areas. We have also begun the migration of co-operative registry onto an electronic platform to increase efficiency and effectiveness in the registration and monitoring process.

 

Madam Chairperson, to further facilitate enterprise in primary co-operatives, we are supporting the Solar Powered Milling Plants Project that is being implemented by the Zambia Co-operative Federation. Through this project, the Government intends to distribute 2,000 solar milling plants across the country. So far, 250 mills have been received in the country and 239 have been installed. Out of the 239 that have been installed, 177 are operational in seventeen districts in Eastern, Southern, Northern, Central and Lusaka Provinces. 1,750 are expected into the country from this December up to the first half of 2017. The purpose of this milling initiative is twofold. Firstly, the Government aims at empowering 2,000 primary co-operatives with a Solar Milling Plant each with the capacity of grinding 2 metric tonnes per day. This will give co-operatives income to grow their businesses by producing on a commercial basis as well as on service basis for individuals and millers wishing to mill their own grain, which includes maize, rice and cassava.

 

Madam Chairperson, secondly, this project is targeting producer co-operatives in high grain producing areas to ensure the feedstock is cheaper thereby, reducing the cost of production and consequently, the price of mealie-meal.

 

Madam Chairperson, in terms of mealie-meal prices, a recent check on the solar milling plants in Northern Province revealed that the highest price for a 25 kg bag of breakfast meal from the solar mills was K85 compared to K107 being charged in retail outlets.

 

Similarly, for roller meal, the price was around K60 for a 25 kg bag as compared to K75 for the same volume in retail outlets.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Government is confident that the full implementation of this initiative will greatly contribute to stabilising mealie meal prices for the benefit of our people. These are some of the interventions undertaken by my ministry. We intend to build on these in 2017.

 

Madam Chairperson, in 2017, we will focus on the implementation of programmes to support industrialisation and job creation in line with the fifth pillar of the economic recovery programme.

 

Madam, I must emphasise that my ministry, in implementing its programmes and policies on industrialisation, will seek to promote inclusiveness by ensuring that both local and foreign enterprises equitably participate in the industrialisation process.

 

Madam, we will support diversification through the creation of industries such as iron and steel in Kafue and the development of Multi-Facility Economic Zones (MFES) such as the Kalumbila. In addition, disadvantaged groups such as women, youth and people with disabilities should and will be given equal opportunities to actively participate in the economy.

 

 Madam, we will play a key role in placing greater emphasis on cooperatives as a viable business model. This will be done by promoting local content through value addition to local raw materials, expanding trade and market access for Zambian goods and services and increasing citizen involvement in the addition supply chains.

 

Madam, we will also pay particular attention to creating a conducive investment and business environment through reforms and measures to reduce the cost of doing business. This is important because we need private sector investment to establish and build the industries and create jobs for our people.

 

Madam Chairperson, the total Budget allocation under Head 33 for the year amounts to K597,278,873. Out of this, 266 million or 44 per cent will be public funded whilst K331 million or 55.4 per cent is expected to come from projects within the ministry supported by cooperating partners. Madam, 91.1 per cent of public funds in the 2017 Budget for my ministry amounting to K219 million has been allocated to statutory bodies that are charged with the responsibility of implementing the laws and policies under my portfolio mandate.

 

The House may wish to note that apart from implementing national policies and laws relating to business regulation, company registration, competition, weights and measures, to mention but a few, statutory bodies under my ministry are expected to contribute not less than K250 million to the treasury in 2017. This will result in a net positive contribution to the Government revenue.

 

Madam Chairperson, amongst the programmes that have been prioritised for implementation during the year are investment promotion, trade and export promotion and cooperatives promotion and development. Others will include micro, small and medium enterprises development and value addition to agriculture, livestock, fisheries and forestry products.

 

The projects funded by cooperating partners will complement public financing to support programmes in micro, small and medium enterprise development, establishment of industrial yards, agribusiness and trade, trade facilitation and integration into the regional market of the Common market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA), the Southern African Development Community (SADC) and the preparation of the Tripartite Continental Free trade Area.

 

Madam Chairperson, we also have a loaded policy and legal agenda in keeping with the President’s directive to review the laws on investment, trade and enterprise development and border management. We are strengthening the policy legal and institutional frameworks that will support corporate governance, insolvency, trade facilitation, domestic and international trade and investment and enterprise development, amongst others.

 

Through the legal and institutional review, we will also be strengthening standardisation and quality assurance in order to promote the competitiveness of our goods and services at home and abroad.

 

In contributing to a smart Zambia, we will promote and facilitate the automation of business regulations as a way of creating effectiveness and reducing levels of corruption.

 

Further, the Government, through my ministry, is repositioning cooperatives and making it possible for entrepreneurs across sectors to come together and participate in economic activity so that they can become the new ...

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

 

[THE FIRST CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was saying that the Government, through my ministry, is repositioning cooperatives and making it possible for entrepreneurs across sectors to come together and participate in economic activity so that they can become the new frontier for employment creation.

 

Madam, with our line-up of policy interventions and programmes for the year, my ministry expects to contribute to the attainment of greater economic stability, industrialisation and job creation.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me conclude by reaffirming the commitment of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to delivering development to the people of Zambia. You are well aware of the tremendous work that lies ahead of us and we are cut out for it and are equal to the task that has been assigned to us by the people of Zambia.

 

I urge this House to support this progressive Budget as it caters for development for all and, is consistent with the theme of the President’s speech in which he called for inclusiveness in development without leaving anyone behind.

 

Mr Livune: Question!

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: I also urge the House to support the Budget of my ministry as it is consistent with the Government’s plan for the year 2017.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I shall not be long. Firstly, I would like thank you for allowing me to debate this Vote. I also thank the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

 

Madam Chairperson, I will begin by saying that the Ministry of Commerce Trade and Industry is one could make most of the dreams of the hon. Minister of Finance as projected in his budget speech real. The Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry can actualise the state of the nation address given by His Excellency, President Lungu, when he came to open this Parliament.

 

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister has a mammoth task ahead of her to actualise that which the hon. Minister of Finance can turn into what he hopes to see by the end of this fiscal year. Let me begin from the hon. Minister of Finances’ budget pronouncements and that is the intended borrowing levels by the Government. The current budget deficit is a bad ingredient to achieve what we want to achieve as a country. I suspect that even before this budget is operationalised in the next forth night, the bank lending rates are hovering around 42 percent. We also know that the hon. Minister of Finance had some passion and I think so is the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry for the Small and Medium Scale Entrepreneurs (SMEs). I also know that the Development Bank of Zambia, the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) are a deliberate organs that can make all these things happen by providing a capital outlet to people who wish to make money on top of money.

 

Madam Chairperson, now, if the cost of money at this point in time is at 42 percent, how then will the interest rates be should the Government actually endeavour into borrowing this coming year? There is something that happened in the economy especially your sector, hon. Minister, where a financial institution closed, the Intermarket Banking Corporation. Without doubt in mind it caused some shivers among depositors. At 42 percent of lending rates and at below 5 percent depositors interest rate, the spread between the lending and the borrowing is far too wide to make any meaning for people to leave their money in the banks unless you buy Treasury Bills or Bonds.

 

Madam Chairperson, if we agree here that SMEs is the way to go, I think the hon. Minister in her winding up debate, must give us a safety valve on how these SMEs are going to survive in the midst of the intended borrowing which we think is going to crowd out the private sector. I have heard that the threshold for people to enjoy incentives for investments here in Zambia is tagged at about US$500,000, I stand to be corrected. If that figure is correct, it means it has crowded out all of us Zambia. For, if I said anyone with US$200,000 in this House raise your hands, they will be one or two. Maybe Hon. Hamusonde the cattle herdsman could be one of the few who will raise up his hand and say I have disposable US$200,000. I do not mean to demean hon. Members here but I am simply saying that money is hard to come by. So, the indigenous person like me cannot qualify even if I had brilliant ideas on how I would like to invest in my own country to participate in trade and industry, it becomes very difficult.

 

Madam Chairperson, bear in mind that in China or elsewhere of shore, people can borrow money for as little as 2 percent interest. Those people can come and invest their money here but I cannot go to Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) and borrow US$500,000 to put in a business and hope to enjoy the fortune. It will take me my whole life time and then the interest will eat me up. I thought that those are the areas the hon. Minister could respond to as she wind up debate. The cost of money is a bit too high.

 

Madam Chairperson, I do agree with the hon. Minister when she talks about the Act that has been passed on collateralising moveable assets. It was a move in the right direction. I am sure it has got its own challenges because previously it has always been a custom that you collateralise fixed assets because they are none moveable you can actually put a leon on such but when you are going to use moveable assets, the fear is that to register those particular assets in order to borrow money may appear problematic and could be susceptible to fraud. I think that is a fact. I can use my vehicle as collateral four times as long as somebody is asleep on the job and they have not registered that collateral.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry houses the CEEC. Ever since the inception of CEEC, I can confirm to you that I have only heard of it. I also know where their office is I have not seen the fruit of CEEC. I aware that ten years ago, certain members who belonged to this House but are not here now, benefitted from that CEEC and built lodges and started businesses but they all went under. I think that as we get along hon. Minister, we should not be like ostriches to bury our heads in the sand, give us a data base of how the loan portfolios are in the CEEC to see whether or not it is a meaningful fund because we cannot be putting money in a bottomless pit and get banks to move in on your clients and we do nothing. You do not create jobs because this fund is supposed to actually assist in creation of jobs. There could only be one of two people that I know who have made real benefit from the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ). Many of those people who got loans from the DBZ have gone under because of the same reasons that I have forwarded.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me turn to industry. In Mazabuka where I am privileged to represent fellow human beings, we have Zambia Sugar Company, we have the Nickel Mine which you know hon. Minister, that it has been under care and maintenance from almost the time of inception and I am sure the hon. Minister of Finance understands what I am talking about, we also have industries up on the Copperbelt. Our colleagues from the Copperbelt, I want us to join hands in making sure that our Government does a right thing for a change so that we can get the benefit of what we lost in the past. If you go to Chief Nkana’s area, you will just find pits of copper that was extracted from there, not given any value addition, transported on our roads and damaged them, gone onto the Indian Ocean for processing to create jobs elsewhere while our people kwi lamba ukwesu are suffering poverty.

 

Madam Chairperson, I recall when I was young, there was Zambia Metal Fabricators (ZAMEFA), it is still there. ZAMEFA is not as vibrant as it was those days. I can argue that if you go into the market, for example, the City Market and say I am looking for cables to electrify my house, the sellers will ask you; do you want Chinese made, Southern African or ZAMEFA? You will understand that ZAMEFA because of its high quality their cables a bit more expensive. What does that tell you? It tells you that we have high potential in this country. So, why not embark on policies that will help us with value addition.

 

We need to embark on policies that will ensure that copper does not leave this country in its raw form the way the Chileans did it a long time ago. When the Chileans were battling back and forth with the issue of what taxes to implement in that industry and nearly choked, they told the investors to go away and that somebody more sensible would mine the copper and they would benefit from it.

 

Madam Chairperson, the North-Western Province is the new Copperbelt and what legacy do we intend to leave in that province? Part of the reason the Chingola/Solwezi Road is damaged is because of the heavy cargo that is transported …

 

Mr Kapitaindicated assent.

 

Mr Nkombo: … and I can see that the hon. Minister for the North-Western Province is nodding. I am sure it is a nightmare to go to the North-Western Province and my marital ratings at home are going down because my wife comes from there. Therefore, we cannot visit the province as often as we should do because the road is damaged. Now, what value did we get from the damaging of that road? Somebody is rich somewhere and we are poor. Those are the issues that the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry must look at.

 

Madam Chairperson, I know we had to open the country, but the other day I lamented that there is no value to stop the L400 or Link 8,000 Road Projects and for the Government to fix the Chingola/Solwezi Road the same way I would like them to fix the Mazabuka/Turn-park Road so that the sugar that comes from Mazabuka and contributes highly to our Gross Domestic Product (GDP) can make sense to us. People are dying on these roads and that is a fact. One day I was watching a clip on social media, which is far much wider than the Dead NBC, where women were jumping out of the window of the Jordon bus which was stuck in mud on a road leading to the most economically viable region today. So, where is our pride to say we produce copper and yet we do not want to look after the area where the copper comes from?

 

Madam Chairperson, two years ago, the former hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi West, Hon. Humphrey Mwanza, may his soul rest in peace, said that he would blow up Mutanda Bridge if the Government did not repair the Chingola/Solwezi Road. Hon. Mutati, with that statement alone, you can make some variations and ensure that the road going to the North-Western Province contributes to the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. Otherwise, we will just be throwing money into a bottomless pit.

 

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, as I wind up, I would like to say that the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS) and Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC) are in the ambits of the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry.Zambia is an import oriented country and as long as it remains that way, those institutions will make not any contributionto us because in the past, people would buy second hand imported lingerie. I think I have said enough and I am sure the hon. Minister has got the message. I am saying this with utmost respect for the hon. Minister to put pressure on her friends in the Cabinet and if they want her ministry to make sense, they must fix the Chingola/Solwezi Road. After all, Hon. Mulusa comes from the North-WesternProvince and he is in charge of planning. They sit next to each other so why do they not deal with the matter?

 

Thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry would solve a lot of problems that Zambia faces. Unfortunately, the policies that we make do not seem to state which sector can create a lot of employment.

 

Madam Chairperson, the PF Government thinks that the creation of more districts and Government ministries will in turn create employment. That is an old fashioned way of addressing that issue. Through the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, we can solve a lot of problems the country is facing. The major employers in any economy are the Small and Medium-sized Entrepreneurs (SMEs) who employ more than 80 per cent of people in the world. Therefore, does this budget support the businessmen to employ more people? The answer is no.

 

Madam Chairperson, the reason I am saying this is because the cost of doing business in this country is very harsh. Currently, it is very hard to sustain a business in Zambia because of the harsh economic conditions and environment. As a result, people have lost their jobs. Also, the economy is depressedand there is very little money in circulation. Therefore, the businessmen have also been overburdened by high taxes and they do not have money. People cannot afford to buy tomatoes and only add cooking oil when cooking because the cost of living has gone upwards andI willsupport this statement. The hon. Minister said that she is trying by all means to reduce the cost of doing business. This is not true. Hon. Garry Nkombo mentioned that the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) has changed the threshold and for you to receive incentives, you need US$500,000. What this means is that the Zambians cannot afford and thereby the foreigners will benefit more. So, how can the hon. Minister say that she is reducing the cost of doing business?

 

Madam Chairperson, let me now talk about the much talked about hammer mills.We have been informed that 2,000 hammer mills will be distributed throughout the country. If you divide 2,000 by all the constituencies that we have, each constituency is supposed to receive twelve hammer mills. As I speak, more than fifteen hammer mills have already been installed in the Eastern Province which is enough. Let us learn to share equally. The Government should distribute these hammer mills equally among all the constituencies…

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kamboni: … especially those in rural areas. I come from an area which produces maize and we do not have any single hammer mill at all.

 

Mr Ngulube: Question!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, when the idea of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) came about, I was part of the committee from Kalomo and we were very happy. However, the question is: has the CEEC empowered the citizens? The answer is no. When the CEEC was introduced, the model was good, butas usual the politicians distorted everything. Those who are not supposed to benefit from the CEEC benefit from it and not the actual businessmen and that is the reason this project has failed. I spent over K10,000 to write a business plan, but I never got any money and they would always tell me to come the next day. In Kalomo Constituency which I represent, only two people whose names I know, received K15,000 and K10,000 respectively. How can you create employment like that? We need to be serious with what we talk about. The CEEC office in Choma is a white elephant and when I pass through, I am told that there is no funding. Therefore, where do the funds allocated to this commission go? This area can create employment.

 

When I begin to build, a person selling stones will have market. Similarly, the plumber will also be employed. The one who does roofing is also going to be employed. That is how you create employment. So, if I build a hotel, just from its construction, I am creating employment for Zambians. We need to look at these issues and be very serious about them. I am going to offer a suggestion to the effect that the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) must be streamlined and taken to constituencies. If we say each constituency should have K1 million to give to people who are business minded, then it will work. Unlike the current situation where everything is done at the headquarters and then the same people keep getting the facilities offered by the CEEC.

 

Madam Chairperson, I was told that the people who were getting funds from the CEEC are from this House. That is wrong because it should have been the ordinary people getting these funds. It should have been those people with business skills who can multiply the wealth and create employment. However, that has not happened. We do not need to just sit in these ministries. We should analyse the situation and see how best certain conditions can be improved. When it comes to this fund, we will keep having the same failures year in and year out. So, what kind of working is that? We are supposed to learn from past mistakes and improve. This area that you keep talking about can create employment and not those others. You must increase funding to Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs). The CEEC should be in every constituency. That way, people will benefit from it and the country will have a lot of successful businessmen.

 

Madam Chairperson, let me come to the issue of opening of companies. With regard to this issue, Zambia has a very sad story. A foreigner can come into this country, open a company and get 100 per cent shares. Zambians will be employed at that company to push wheel barrows and you call that employment. Six years ago, I read one book from which I learnt that for every dollar that we sold our copper, Zambia got 5 cents. In Botswana, for every dollar they got from selling their diamonds, the Government got 86 cents. In Australia, for every one dollar that the country sold its minerals, the Government got 75 per cent of the sales. This is how we want to receive foreigners as Zambians.

 

Madam, this country is for Zambians. Therefore, the things that we do here should be to benefit the citizens. Look at the current status. If I live in Kafue and I want to do business in Lusaka, I will pay more in terms of taxes. Pay As You Earn (PAYE) has also gone up and the people who are supposed to buy from me are over-taxed. For every K100, people pay K37 as well as the toll gate fees. This means that if I live in Kafue and I have forgotten something at my house, when I go back home to pick that which I forgot, I will incur too many taxes. These conditions are not good for a businessman.

 

Madam Chairperson, I am a businessman and before the PF Government came into power, I used to make about K500,000 per year. However, since the PF came into power, I now only make about K30 per month.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam, that is the truth about the business environment here. The environment is not the same anymore, and the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry should do something about it. Hon. Minister, you must sit down with the hon. Minister of Finance and see how best this can be addressed. If you kill the same cow you are milking, you will not have a calf. You cannot give 10 kg of feed to a cow that is giving you 10 litres of milk. After realising that you have done things wrongly and you are bankrupt, that is when you say you want the cow to give you 20 litres of milk. You then reduce the feed to 5kg per day from 10 kg and yet you want more milk. What will happen is that the calf will die and eventually, the cow too.

 

Madam Chairperson, I want the Ministry of Finance to take note of this. It should record all the taxes it will get other than the ones from the toll gates. It will definitely go down because there is no money in the country. Every businessman is complaining. There is literary no money in circulation. If my neighbour does not have money, who will buy my products?

 

Hon. Opposition Member: Yourself.

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, serious economists, just like Hon. Dr Imakando are saying when you go to Shoprite, you will observe that the queues are shorter now. What does that mean? It means there is no money in the country, but the Government wants to make more money from people who do not have it. I think that as a country, we are in trouble.

 

Madam, when we talk about value addition, we have to be very serious. Let us not talk about things we cannot do. We have heard stories about value addition in agriculture and many other sectors. When we are planning to add value to our products, we need to plan very seriously. This planning involves the Government helping by financing these businesses. Right now, Barclays Bank does not give out loans.

 

Mr Kambwili: Kabili tamubwesha.

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam, I tried to get a loan from the bank and I was told that the interest rate is at 42 per cent. I was also told that the bank does not give out loans at interest rates lower than that unless it was a special arrangement. If Zambians cannot borrow from the banks, where will they get the money to do business? When they come to the CEEC to borrow money, the first people on the cards are PF cadres. Let me mention here that the word cadre is completely misused. According to what I learnt, a cadre is someone who is highly trained and very skilful in his field. However, I do not know why we call these people on the streets, who throw stones at us as cadres. The point I am trying to make is that we have problems accessing funds at institutions like the CEEC. It is a question of wako ni wako. That is something the hon. Minister must work on.

 

The First Chairperson: What is wako ni wako?

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, let me now talk about diversification.

 

The First Chairperson: What is wako ni wako?

 

Mr Kamboni: I am holding the Floor.

 

The First Chairperson: Order hon. Member!

 

I am asking you what wako ni wako is.

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, wako ni wako means you only help those you are related to.

 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, in this country, we have been talking about diversification for so many years. For over fifty years now, everyone has been talking about diversification. However, our copper is not selling very well. We have been talking about diversifying to agriculture, but what are we doing with that sector? We have put unqualified human resource personnel there. There is no seed and fertiliser in agriculture. The Government has also killed agriculture by putting 10 per cent on exploitation trucks.

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

Killing is unparliamentary. Kindly withdraw it.

 

Mr Kamboni: Which word madam?

 

The First Chairperson: The word killed.

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, we have taken it down. Copper production has also gone down. So, we are supposed to shift and make our money from agriculture. The rainy season comes and we have enough rain, yet there are no inputs. The Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) is also dead. After the planting season, that is when you see the minister in charge gallivanting all over the country instead of solving the problems in the country.

 

Madam, the point I am making is that we need to be serious with the things that we talk about.

 

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, leadership is not about somebody or the President being excellent and getting straight As everywhere. Leadership is about selecting able men that can push the country forward and not appointing relatives and friends. Leadership entails choosing able men and women who are well qualified to push the country forward and not where you put a cadre or friend because he threw a stone and he has no employment. So, you tell them come here and work. That is how ZESCO was killed. We need to be serious with diversification because like agriculture now, where we can make money, there are no roads. Look at how maize is marketed? It is not stored properly. Some of it is even kept in toilets and yet this is the food we eat. In Kalomo, there is no market for selling this maize. The farmers just put it anywhere including in the bush. There is no proper organisation.

 

Madam Chairperson, cooperatives are only meant for FISP and nothing else. So, the point that I am making is that this is one area where the articulate hon. Minister of Finance should come and talk to our people and teach them business skills. He should come and give them ideas and be fair in the distribution of capital. Small businessmen need money. The source of getting finances in Zambia is the most expensive in the region. Getting a loan in Zambia is as good as putting a rope around your neck and committing suicide because the interest rates are at 42 per cent. Where in the world do you have interest rates that high? In Europe, interest rates are at 1 per cent. You know that is a fact, unless you do not live in this world. If you passed mathematics, then you know what I mean when I talk about this 42 per cent being high.

 

Madam Chairperson, you cannot say that 42 percent is not huge. It is colossal. So, if you are insisting that it is not huge, then I need to check your certificate.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Kamboni: Madam Chairperson, in my view, if there was proper management, I would have urged the ministry to allocate this ministry more money as a way of boosting a lot of businessmen in Zambia who need a bailout. They do not need high taxes. They need lower taxes and more money to do their businesses. Otherwise, the path this country has taken is killing the people whom we are supposed to get the maize from.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

I just guided that the word “killing” is unparliamentary. Please remember this in future.

 

Any further debate? Hon. Member for Kantanshi, you have the Floor.

 

Mr A. Mumba (Kantanshi): Madam Chairperson, I would like to start by thanking the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry for her elaborate policy statement. However, I would like to bring a few issues, which might help this country in future, to her attention especially that her ministry is responsible for creating business opportunities, jobs and wealth that the Zambians are looking for.

 

Madam Chairperson, thousands of companies in Zambia today have registered with the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA), an organisation under the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. The question that begs an answer, however, is: How many of these companies are actually doing business?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: We cannot run away from the fact that the largest giver of business, world over, is the Government.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: If the Government is able to give business to its citizen, the ownership of the economy will definitely be in their hands. As I speak to you now, this economy is not in our hands.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. Mumba: If it were in our hands, we would not have a situation where the Government takes ten months to pay a company, ...

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: …which is scoring debit fees at the rate of 42 percent.

 

Madam Chairperson, we have institutions under the Ministry of Finance such as the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) and the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), which work closely with your ministry, doing business as usual and yet opportunities and budgets, year in year out, have been increasing. Meanwhile, the capacity of these institutions has remained the same.

 

For example, the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) has so many pledged investments. A pledge is simply a pledge. Can we know the actual investment that has come into the country? We cannot afford to continue depending on pledges.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: I would like to draw more on the general business in this country. A Zambian has difficulties getting business in the mines and yet the hon. Minister of Finance is trying to get as much tax as possible from this particular Zambia.

 

Madam Chairperson, under CEEC there is a certificate that a gives a citizen who has registered his or her company an advantage to do business with the Government over other companies. This document has many a time proved useless. Having this document is a waste of time. 

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: Even if one has this document, along the way there are connotations that will not be able to support him or her. Remember that I started by saying that thousands of businesses have been registered today. It is important that we start to look at these issues.

 

The Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry is crosscutting. There is business, trade and industrialisation involved. We have to do business within the confines of our own country. However, we see foreigners respond to this tender document that we do not see ourselves, and in the process, get millions of kwacha out of this country, putting more pressure on the exchange rate. We need to relook at this.

 

The hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry needs to have a look at what CEEC is doing in terms of supporting businesses. It is not good to just give someone a loan. The Government spends over K10 billion on goods and services. Can you imagine what would happen if over 80 percent of that money was in the hands of Zambians? We would certainly begin to have some of these buildings that South Africans own all over Zambia. Meanwhile, we want to say that our economy is growing. The economy cannot grow without us.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: We have to be involved right from the beginning.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: Therefore, even as we debate the budget for the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, it is important that we do not just focus on looking for investors outside the country. Zambians are investors.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: The DBZ fails to have initiatives such as invoice discounting. When someone supplies goods and services to the Government, banks such as Stanbic and First National Bank (FNB) offer invoice discounts and put less pressure on the payer, who is Government. The Government today pays after ten or eleven months or as and when they feel like it.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: Sometimes, permanent secretaries do not even talk to suppliers properly and yet they have consumed the service. We need to change our mindsets. The President requires us to continue building our skills and thinking smartly. We cannot afford to have a situation where a Zambian, just to get business, has to know somebody. This is not the way it is supposed to be. This country is bigger than all of us.

 

We are supposed to make sure that everyone of us is given a fair chance. We have so many funds such as the Youth Empowerment Fund, CEEC and DBZ, scattered all over but we need to have a coherent way of these funds getting into the hands of the Zambians so that they can supply goods and services and contribute to the growth of this economy. It will not be good enough for us to continue relying on outside investors.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would like to end by talking about …

 

Interruptions

 

Hon. Opposition Members: No, continue!

 

The First Deputy Chairperson: Order, on my left!

 

Mr A. Mumba: Let me end by talking about why I strongly feel that commerce should improve its coherentness vis-à-vis businesses in other ministries. When the hon. Minister of Finance gave his policy debate on his ministry, he talked about giving young girls in rural areas sanitary towels for them to continue going to school. Already, this is business under the Ministry of Health.

 

However, I expected the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry to tell us where to buy the equipment for manufacturing sanitary towels. Very soon, we will hear that either a Chinese or South African company has gotten this huge business.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: The hon. Minister of Finance talked about cooking or edible oil. He said that measures have been put in place to stop cooking from getting into the country so that soybeans production can go up and we can start making our own cooking oil. I can assure you, Madam that in border areas there is no equipment that can detect the difference between crude cooking oil and imported oil. This is business. I expected DBZ to be advertising for people to get loans and invest in such equipment.  We need the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry to think beyond foreign investors ...

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: …and think about us, the Zambians.

 

Madam Chairperson, we have failed to build our own factory to produce mosquito nets and yet we are mosquito-infested country. We import mosquito repellent from countries that do not even have mosquitoes. All these are business opportunities that as a country we can take advantage of.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr A. Mumba: Madam Chairperson, let me not take much of your time.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Continue!

 

Mr A. Mumba: I would like to support our able hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry. I wish her well in executing business for the country in the coming year.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, I thank you very much.

 

Let me thank the three debaters that have eliminated my areas of concern. I will start with Hon. Nkombo’s interventions which included the cost of doing business at 42 percent. Yes, it is high and we do not like either. This is why you will see, from the budget by the hon. Minister of Finance, a strong thrust to ensure that this cost comes down.

 

It is very difficult to make money at 42 percent. You will note that the CEEC, when it has funds, lends at 12 percent to ensure that the Small Medium Enterprises (SMEs) that everybody is talking about are actually able to access finance. We hope to see this cost of doing business, even from the banking sector, coming down in future.

 

Madam Chairperson, the Intermarket Banking Corporation is not closed, but under care. When the Central Bank takes over a bank, it makes sure that the depositors’ funds are in safe hands. Otherwise, when there is a run on the bank, your deposits will not be safe. So, they have taken care. Therefore, I would like to believe that with the discussions that are going on now, certainly, the Intermarket Banking Corporation will not die because there are some strong indications that it will come back to the fore.

 

Madam, on the threshold for the investment of K500,000, I want to state that you do not have to invest the whole K500,000. For instance, you can invest less or K100,000. The K500,000 comes with an investment licence. The investment licence and the incentives that you get come about only when you locate in a Multi-facility Economic Zone or when you locate your investment in a rural area. Otherwise, you are free to investment less than K500,000. In fact, we are revising the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) Act to ensure that we can reduce the threshold to bring it further down so that more people especially Zambians wanting to go into small scale business can enter the M-Phase by making sure that certain areas of the M-Phase are catering for Zambians.

 

Madam Chairperson, Zambians so not own businesses. I can hear a cry from here and there. As Government, we have already started reserving certain areas of business. In fact, we have had already identified certain areas for investment. I have my Cabinet approval and the Statutory Instrument (SI) is just waiting to be signed. Therefore, you will see us taking more and more of these interventions that are allowing Zambians to only to operate in certain areas of business where we believe that there is capacity in those areas.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, we considered the suspension of the importation of cooking oil because we knew that we have the capacity to actually produce the cooking oil in the country and even export the excess.

 

Madam, Hon. Kamboni talked about the hammer mills and that we should divide by ten or twelve. We cannot send a hammer where there is no maize, cassava or rice being grown. We have to be real because some provinces produce more than others. For instance, Eastern Province produces a lot of maize, So, when distributing the hammer mills, we have to make sure than if rice is grown in Western Province, there must be a hammer and solar mill that will actually go and mill that rice. We cannot just divide by ten because every sing province has got a hammer mill, but some have more than others.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Where there is production, the will be more hammer mills. I can assure you that we have carefully looked at how these hammer mills are being distributed.

 

Madam Chairperson, I have talked about the access to finance in relation to the empowerment funds.

 

Hon. Members must have heard from the hon. Minister of Finance’s budget that he has allocated the quite a big sum of money funds for empowerment for citizens. He has also signed a huge amount of money from the African Development Bank (ADB) for us under the Citizens Economic Empower Commission (CEEC). Again, this is well priced to the extent of US$32 million. This is really going to look at industrialised and the value chain in cassava. The value addition is going to be real. We are very serious about diversification and value addition. This is why you are seeing the ZDA, the CEEC and my own ministry are ensuring that we share with people the entrepreneurship skills and the business skills to ensure that once the money is advance to them they can look after it properly.

 

For instance, if you ask for the data base of how we spent CEEC, I am happy to share that with you, what areas have been invested in and what progress we are making because if I see a ginnery in Mumbwa which was never there, that is CEEC   at work. We are now doing the whole value chain of cotton and the residents are actually getting much better value for their money and they are all Zambians.

 

Madam, for example, on the cost of doing business apart from the actual cost, which is the interest, you will fill in the form which is geared towards ensuring that licensing requirements are streamlined that will ensure that clearing of goods at border posts is speeded up. We have not implemented what we are calling ‘single window,’ which again, we are able to transact your business and pay for your goods very quickly.

 

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Nkombo talked about the registration of the business names for the intellectual properties rights.  He said that he can use usable assets such as his car four times. I want to state that the usable asset is going to be in a data base at the Central Bank. So, when you go to a bank or financial institutions to borrow money, you will have to show that you have gone to the database and you have some sort of evidence that this asset is actually there and, therefore,  it is not owned by anybody four times. So, we are not too worried about.

 

Madam, in the case of the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABs) and the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC), I want state that there are great institutions. ZABS and the CCPC do a great job to ensure that the consumer protection and competition is being caped in check. Therefore, addition more people to those institutions right now is not going to help us because we are quite happy with what we have there at the moment.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, I think I have addressed most of the issues that have been mentioned. Suffice to say that we are very much encouraging Zambians to be in all areas of business. When we talk about sanitary towels, we have got two Zambian companies that are going to set up and will start and producing sanitary towels in Zambia. I am happy to say that these are women that are going to do that. So, we want to encourage you, hon. Members to encourage your constituents to visit the CEEC and ZDA in your areas. We are in every province.

 

Madam, I just want I thank you, for this opportunity and for supporting my budget for 2017.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

 

VOTE 33/01 − (Ministry of Commerce, Trade and IndustryHeadquarters – K227,931,588).

 

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1088, Activity 026 – Retiring and Repatriation. 

 

Interruptions

 

Madam Firs Chairperson: Order!

 

Allow the hon. Minister space so that she can respond to those questions.

 

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mrs Mwanakatwe): Madam Chairperson, there is no allocation in this line because the ministry has not received any notification of any officer retiring in 2017.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Vote 33/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 33/02 – (Ministry of Commerce, Trade and IndustryPlanning and Information Department – K321,483,316).

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1217, Activity 004 –Entrepreneurship Development (1) – K217,000,000. Why is there such a huge increment from K29.8 million in 2016 to K217 million in 2017?

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, this is money from the African Development Bank (ADB) that I talked about earlier. It will be partly raised by the Government and partly by ADB. It is the equivalent of US$30 million and is going to go towards the Citizen Economic Empowerment Fund for industrial yards and the cassava value chain.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Vote 33/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Votes 33/04, 33/05 and 33/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 33/10 – (Ministry of Commerce, Trade and IndustryCo-operatives Department – K10,546,574).

 

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Chairperson, may I have an explanation on Programme 1000, Activity 002 – Salaries Division II – K4,390,390 and Activity 003 – Salaries Division III –K739,284. I notice that there is an increment of almost 1,000 per cent in the allocations for these activities. What has caused this?

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, the provision under Programme 1000, Activity 002 – Salaries Division II – K4,390,390  will cater for salaries of officers in division II. The increase is as a result of realignment of the cooperative staff from the Ministry of Agriculture to my ministry. The same applies for Programme 1000, Activity 003 – Salaries Division III – K739,284.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Vote 33/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 33/16 – (Ministry of Commerce, Trade and IndustryCo-operatives Department – K10,546,574).

 

Ms Chonya (Kafue): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1001, Activity 018 – Staff Meetings – K33,554. I want to understand how this expense comes about because I thought staff meetings are part of the daily business of official duty.

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, the reason why this amount has gone up is because we envisage an increased number of activities in this department.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Ms Chonya: Madam Chairperson, there is no allocation for 2016. This is a new activity altogether and, therefore, there has been no increase. I am just questioning what the allocation is for.

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Minister, there was no allocation for this activity in 2016, but there is an allocation for 2017. Can you explain why there was no allocation for 2016, but there is an allocation in next year’s budget.

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, this activity is new due to the moving of cooperatives to my ministry. We are really going to increase our activities in cooperatives, hence the amount that is being allocated in 2017. So it is new in the ministry.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Madam Chairperson, if I got it clearly, the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kafue is that, are staff meetings not part of employees’ daily work?

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, indeed, there are meetings that are part of daily work. However, when we visit the provincial cooperatives, we hold meetings that are not part of daily work. That is what it is.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

Interruptions

 

The First Chairperson: Order, hon. Members! Hon. Lubezhi, order please!

 

Vote 33/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 33/18 – (Ministry of Commerce, Trade and IndustryCentral ProvinceProvincial Agriculture Coordinating Office – K80,000).

 

Ms Mwashingwele (Katuba): Madam Chairperson, can I get an explanation for Programme 1001, Activity 018− Staff Meetings – K33,554. Why are staff meetings appearing again when they were catered for in the other budget line that was mentioned earlier? We need to understand what these staff meetings are all about.

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, we are going province by province and this amount will appear in every single province. This one is for the Central Province.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Vote 33/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 33/19 (Ministry of Commerce, Trade and IndustryCentral Province- District Agriculture Coordinating Office – K577, 708).

 

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Madam Chairperson, all activities on this Vote were not budgeted for in 2016. What has necessitated allocations to these activities in 2017?

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Members, let us be reasonable. If you go to page 480, you will see that in 2016, there was no allocation to these activities. So, that passed. Surely, you cannot ask that now. The answer is the same as the one the hon. Minister gave before. This is a new allocation. Please follow. Just follow, mum.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Vote 33/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 33/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

 VOTE 33/37 – (Ministry of Commerce, Trade and IndustryMuchinga ProvinceDistrict Agriculture Coordinating Office – K403,997).

 

Ms Chonya (Kafue): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1001, Activity 012 – Co-operative Formation and Registration – Nil. The hon. Minister indicated that activities to do with co-operatives will be more pronounced. So, I am wondering why there is no allocation for this activity in Muchinga for 2017.

 

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Madam Chairperson, this activity has been catered for under Programme 1001, Activity 021 – Co-operative Registration, Inspection and Investigation – K24,519.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Vote 33/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

 VOTE 68 – (Ministry of Tourism and Arts – K245,009,212)

 

The Minister of Tourism and Arts (Mr C. R. Banda): Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson, first of all, let me begin by offering my sincere condolences to the family of Mr Danwood Mkhondo Lungu, the immediate past Deputy Speaker and Member of Parliament for Lundazi Central who passed away at 2100 hours on Sunday, 11th September, 2016 at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) May His Soul Rest In Peace (MHSRIP).

 

Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank you for giving this opportunity to present a Policy Statement in support of the 2017 Budget Estimates of Expenditure for the Ministry of Tourism and Arts. The total budget estimate for 2017 for the ministry is K245,009,212 which is an increase from K174.6 million in 2016.

 

Madam Chairperson, following Government’s decision to revert the portfolio functions of National Parks and Wildlife Management to the mainstream civil service and subsequent in enactment of the Zambia Wildlife Act No. 14 of 2015, the Ministry of Tourism and Arts implements its mandate through five departments.

 

Madam, allow me to inform this august House that during the recent realignment of government ministries and portfolio functions, three more statutory bodies have been added to the ministry. During the realignment exercise, the National Heritage Conservation Commission also known as (NHCC) and the National Museums Board (NMB), were moved from the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. The Hostels Board of Management also known as (HBOM) was also moved from the Ministry of Works and Supply to be part of my ministry. Other statutory bodies under my ministry include the Zambia Tourism Agency (ZTA), the National Arts Council also known as (NAC) and the Hotels and Tourism Training Institute Trust (HTTI). This development will help to reduce on the fragmentation of the sector and improve on coordination for effective implementation of programmes.

 

Madam Chairperson, allow me to give some highlights of the progress made during the implementation of the main programmes in 2016 as well as the programmes planned for 2017.

 

Transformation of Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) into a Government Department

 

Madam, the transformation ZAWA into a government department has started yielding positive results such as the following:

 

Improvement in the revenue collection

 

As at September, 2016, revenue from both non consumptive and consumptive tourism activities in the National Parks, amounted to K83,422,518.09 compared to an average of K55.1 million per annum over the last seven years. This was generated from activities in the National Parks such as photographic and hunting safaris. The House may wish to note that out of the twenty National Parks; only four are significantly contributing revenue to the Treasury. These are the South Luangwa, the Mosi-oa-Tunya, the Lower Zambezi and Kafue National Parks. The other six National Parks need recapitalisation to stimulate their potential.

 

Payment of Salaries to Officers

 

Officers managing the wildlife resources are now paid on time unlike in the past where they would be unpaid for some months. The timely payment of salaries by Government has also enhanced efforts on conservation by wildlife staff instead of them concentrating more on where to find money for salaries.

 

Madam Chairperson, in 2017, the ministry has planned to focus on programmes that will enhance wildlife conservation and management. These programmes include: anti poaching campaigns; restocking of depleted protected areas; mitigation of human-wildlife conflict; and animal surveys to ascertain population numbers and distribution, which information is needed for setting sustainable management options such as animal quotas and other policy decisions.

 

National Museums Board (NMB)

 

Madam Chairperson, I would like to briefly highlight some of the achievements my ministry has scored during the 2016 Fiscal Year under the National Museums Board.

 

The NMB has been able to:

 

  1. meet its personal emoluments;

 

  1. declare through a Statutory Instrument, Choma Community Museum as a national museum bringing the total number of national museums to five;

 

  1. it has also been able to rehabilitate Chikanta Palace Museum that was officially opened to the public on 15th October, 2016;

 

  1. in addition, the NMB held a number of public programmes in our museums across the country for service delivery to the people; and

 

  1. the Board also signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with the French through an initiative of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, to establish a museum of Natural History in Lusaka.

 

In this vain, the thrust of the 2017 for NMB will be to implement museum development projects and in particular, to establish and develop a museum of Natural History earmarked for Lusaka.

 

Madam Chairperson, with adequate funding, the NMB will be able to carry out its programmes in 2017 as follows:

 

  1. to fully meet is operational costs of museums management programmes;

 

  1. to undertake museum field research to generate new knowledge and to increase its collections;

 

  1. to undertake research;

 

  1. undertake museum documentation for research and informative exhibitions; and

 

  1. to undertake conservation and preservation activities.

 

Madam Chairperson, I would like to remind this august House on the importance of preserving our nation’s heritage.

 

In order to enhance the value of our heritage, the Government hopes to develop the Nangwenya Plot in Lusaka, the Choma Plot in Choma and the Copperbelt Plot in Ndola under the Private Public Partnership (PPP) arrangement.

 

National Heritage Conservation Commission

 

Madam Chairperson, it is an undeniable fact that heritage sites have a significant potential in contributing to economic development and growth of the country’s economy. Though currently the Act has economic assets and base for tourism, their full potential is yet to be exploited. In this vain, the thrust of the 2017 Budget for the NHCC will be on four core areas which are as follows:

 

  1. the promotion and facilitation of private sector investments in the heritage sector;

 

  1. conservation of the heritage assets;

 

  1. infrastructure development at sites; and

 

  1. research education.

However, much premium will be placed on promotion of heritage sites for private sector investment as this, if properly done, can contribute to wealth and job creation. This is critical especially considering that most heritage sites are located in rural areas and as such, can act as catalysts for entrepreneurial activities and job creation in rural areas.

 

With adequate funding to the National Heritage Conservation Commission, the deterioration or degradation of the heritage assets such as conservation activities would be avoided. Furthermore, the Commission will be able to put up appropriate visitor infrastructure at the sites and undertake research and education activities on heritage.

 

Hostels Board of Management

 

Madam Chairperson, I would like to briefly highlight some of the achievements the Ministry of Tourism and Arts has scored during the 2016 fiscal year under the Hostels Board of Management. The Hostels Board of Management has been able to:

 

  1. develop the draft strategic plan for the period 2017-2021;

 

  1. decentralise the payment and procurement systems of seven out of twelve loges;

 

  1. successfully concluded the tender process for the construction of the lodge in Chinsali District of Muchinga Province in a quest to expand provision of products and services and thereby increase turn over. The contract has already been awarded and the contractor is on site, but awaiting payment in order to mobilise;

 

  1. to launch the programme to connect all lodges to the Government Wide Area Network; and

 

  1. to advance the development of the hotel management software in collaboration with the Ministry of Finance

 

Madam Chairperson, the Hostels Board of Management faced a number of challenges during 2016. One of the major challenges for the year under review was limited bed space and conference facilities in the board’s chain of lodges resulting in outsourcing of products and services.

 

Madam Chairperson, the thrust of the 2017 Budget for the Hostels Board of Management is the construction and rehabilitation programme. One of these activities will be the construction of a thirty-one room capacity lodge in Chinsali District of Muchinga Province and the realisation of objectives set out in the board’s strategic plan for 2017-2021. The Hostels Board of Management with adequate workforce and funding can provide satisfactory services and product in 2017.I wish to appeal to all users of the hostels board of management facilities to pay for the services they consume in order to ensure that the board continues to provide competitive services. Furthermore, the Government will explore various financing options such as Public-Private Partnerships (PPP) in order to increase and modernise the facilities and services currently provided.

 

Policy Regulatory framework

 

Madam Chairperson, the policy has formulated a Training Bill which was before this august House. The objective of this Bill was to transform the management and operations of the Hotel and Tourism Training Institute into a professional training institute and to enhance its financial position as well as attain ability to engage into various financing options such as PPPs.

 

Madam Chairperson, with regard to wildlife management, the Ministry of Tourism and Arts reviewed the National Wildlife policy which is awaiting approval by Cabinet.

 

Madam Chairperson, in 2017, the Ministry of Tourism and Arts has plans to sensitise players in the industry to take advantage of policy options provided in the 2015 National Tourism Policy and to engage on how best to reduce the cost of accommodation in order to stimulate domestic tourism. This is an important step in addressing low turnout on domestic tourism as well as insulating the industry from external shocks such as sudden drops in tourist arrivals due to diseases or natural calamities.

 

Tourism Enterprise Standards Regulation and Licensing

 

Madam Chairperson, the Tourism and Hospitality Act No. 13 of 2015, transferred the tourism enterprise standards regulation and licensing function to the Zambia Tourism Agency (ZTA). The transfer of the function was done in order, not only to enhance tourism standards, but also to boost revenue collection which remained very low when this function was under a lean section within the ministry. So far, the structure, under the ZTA, that standards and licensing function, has been developed and approved.

 

Tourism Levy

 

Madam Chairperson, the Tourism and Hospitality Act No. 13 of 2015, provides for the establishment of a Tourism Development Fund. The purpose of the fund is:

 

  1. tourism product development;

 

  1. tourism infrastructure;

 

  1. tourism marketing; and

 

  1. tourism training and research.

 

One of the sources of finances for this fund is the tourism levy. The Ministry of Tourism and Arts has put in place the necessary modalities, including the Statutory Instrument, to start collecting tourism levies from tourism establishments. It is expected that the implementation of the tourism levy will commence in March 2017. The Zambia Revenue Authority will collect the level on behalf of the ministry.

 

Folklore and Cultural Industries

 

Madam Chairperson, the creative industries, which include traditional music, dance and folklore, contribute significantly to job creation especially among women and young people. Apart from job creation, there is also an aspect of preservation of our indigenous knowledge and skills. The Ministry of Tourism and Arts has continued to collaborate with partners in implementing programmes and activities that promote the preservation of our cultural heritage. With the support of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), the ministry is currently documenting the music and dance of the Lozi and Nkoya people of Kaoma District as well as the Lala proverbs of the Lala people of Luano District. The ministry has also continued with a programme to enhance the skills of the cultural practitioners.

 

Madam Chairperson, with regards to arts development, the Ministry of Tourism and Arts focused on improving the standards and quality of arts and cultural products in the country. Short-term education and training programmes for artists and hand crafts produces were conducted in Muchinga, Copperbelt, Eastern, Southern and Western Provinces. The objective of these training programmes was enhance artists’ skills in handcrafts, design, production and value addition in order enhance the end products so that they are more competitive both on the local and international markets.

 

Tourism Infrastructure Development

 

Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Tourism and Arts, in collaboration with other line ministries and agencies, will continue to rehabilitate access roads, airstrips and bridges within protected areas in order enhance accessibility, lengthen the tourism season as well as attract more investments. This will further facilitate increased revenue generation from wildlife resources through photographic tourism in game management areas.

 

Development of Trans-Frontier Conservation Areas

 

Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Tourism and Arts is committed to developing trans- frontier conservation areas in collaboration with neighbouring countries. This is important for enhancing efforts in fighting trans-boundary wildlife crimes and promoting tourism through increased experiences for tourists. There are five trans-frontier conservation areas also known as TFCAs which Zambia is committed to developing. These comprise of the Kavango-Zambezi TFCA, the Mana Pools-Lower Zambezi TFCA, the Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Zambia TFCA, the Liuwa-Missuma TFCA and the Malawi-Zambia TFCA.

 

Tourism Marketing and Promotion

 

Madam Chairperson, with regard to tourism marketing and promotion, the Ministry of Tourism and Arts, through the ZTA, will continue marketing the country to key source markets using various marketing platforms that include print, electronic and social media. The long term viability of tourism relies on a long term vision. Building on the review of the Tourism Policy and the Tourism and Hospitality Act No. 13 of 2015, the ministry will, in the planned period, develop a tourism master plan in order to systematically develop the tourism sector. The document will provide guidance on th e development of the sector in the country. This plan will further lay the foundation for enhanced contribution of tourism to employment and wealth creation. The ministry would like to thank the European Union (EU) for the support they are rendering in the development of the tourism master plan.

 

Madam Chairperson, I wish to conclude this policy statement by urging hon. Members of this House to support the Budget Estimates for my ministry.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to debate the vote under the Ministry of Tourism and Arts. I have taken note of what the hon. Minister has indicated in his policy statement. However, I think that he has shied away from indicating the challenges that he needs to address in this ministry. Consequently, it is my view that even his proposed resolution to these challenges is not correct.

 

Madam Chairperson, unfortunately, under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, this is one sector that has been vandalised politically. Among the issues that the hon. Minister should have been open enough to confront, in line with the overall Budget that the Government has presented to us is the air transport sector. In the PF Administration, we have seen some of the major airlines such as the British Airways discontinue their flights in and out of Lusaka. That is a major issue which in my view, the hon. Minister should have been able to confront. It is under the PF Government that we have seen a bit of confusion at airports. I can cite so many examples. We have so many projects that are incomplete in this sector. Ultimately, those have a negative impact on tourism in this country.

 

Madam Chairperson, in Zambia, we have the Kasaba Bay. We have the Choma Airstrip that was destroyed in order to put office blocks. To date, we do not know where the new airstrip will be constructed by the PF Government. Under this PF Government, we have seen commercial airlines being threatened by cadres as was the case in Ndola. In Ndola, there was an incident where an airline almost failed to land because the PF cadres had opted to take over the airport. All these things can affect tourism in this country. 

 

Madam Chairperson, I am being reminded of the incident that happened in Shiwa Ng’andu where a chartered helicopter …

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Belemu: …was threatened. We all know that Shiwa Ng’andu houses most of the major tourism sites such as the Kapishya Hotspring.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Mwiimbu: They thought it was a bay.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, the airport infrastructure has an effect on tourism. In this regard, the hon. Minister should have been able to address this issue even if it does not really fall under his sector. The actual fact is that this has an impact on Zambia’s tourism. The hon. Minister talked about arrivals in tourism areas. Now, how will these tourists reach those places if their flights are not allowed to land? How will they go there is there is no airline to fly them there? We have been hearing about the national flight carrier for a very long time. Probably, this is a matter that is reserved for another vote. All those are issues that would impact on how we market Zambia’s tourism.

 

Madam Chairperson, under the PF administration, we have experienced a lot of policy changes and I can cite a few of them for the purpose of context. For example, the issue of hunting concessions has been a problem in this country. We have seen situations where one moment, they are cancelled and the other moment, they are restored. On the issue of changing departments and institutions under the ministry, we have just been told about the national museums and the heritage commission. All these, at some point, have been moved from sector to sector and ministry to ministry. They have ultimately, been affected in the way they deliver to the economy of this country.

 

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister has talked about the Transfrontier Conservation Area (TFCAs). Again, there has been a lot of policy inconsistencies. How is the Government going to promote for example, the Mana Pools National Park that we share with Zimbabwe when in the Lower Zambezi National Park, this Government has allowed a mining company to go and start mining? The hon. Minister is now talking about promotion of trans-frontier conservation. How is this going to happen? That is a contradiction of what we want to achieve.

 

Madam Chairperson, it is a fact that even the major resources that were endemic in this country are now found all over the region. If you go to South Africa, you will find the Kafue Lechwe. Some of these species which were endemic in Zambia have been flown out of this country. When the hon. Minister was addressing the wildlife sub-sector in his policy statement, he would have mentioned the serious measures that his ministry is going to undertake to address such challenges. The things that he was boasting about, that he is holding in esteem in the country are now found in other countries. We have sold them. Actually, that amounts to selling our birth rights for porridge. We expected the hon. Minister to tell us how we are going to reserve such kind of resources.  

 

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about animal restocking in national parks. I think for now, we must start promoting game ranching. That is a more sustainable way of conserving wildlife than animal restocking. Even if we restock these animals, people will start hunting them and even flying them out of the country.  This happened in the Lower Zambezi National Park. We should have been talking about promoting game ranching. When you have a game ranch, you will be able to protect your wildlife. That is a direction we must take and it is more sustainable.

 

Mr Nkombo: Even artificial insemination!

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, three quarters of Namibia is a desert. In the Southern part of Namibia, there are wildlife ranches. In places where domestic livestock cannot live, at least wildlife can. That is the direction we must be taking. There has been so much contradiction on issues relating to the image of Zambia as a tourism product. I can cite, for example, the issues of violence. Such things can damage Zambia’s image as a tourism destination.

 

Madam Chairperson earlier on, we were talking about the Minisry of Information and Broadcasting. One of the roles this ministry should have played is to promote Zambia as a tourism destination as opposed to being negative.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, for example, in Zambia, if a visitor comes and he decides to listen to news, the first item he will see is a series of politicians like the District Commission (DC) talking about things that will never promote this country. There will be issues of cadres, ministers being chased by people who have grabbed land and those who want to control bus stops.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, public media should be a mouth piece of those who want to promote tourism in Zambia. To the contrary, that is not the case. You will find that our children who are in primary or secondary schools know more about the United States of America (USA), Europe and South Africa than they know about Zambia. Lately, they will also know more about the Nigerian Naira than the Zambian Kwacha and exchange rates. All these things are showing me that instruments that we could have been using to promote tourism in Zambia are not doing their role.

 

Mr Nkombo: Dununa Reverse!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister looks like a good man and I can give him a hint of what we could have been doing as the United Party for National Development (UPND). 

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister has been talking about the cost of the tourism products in Zambia. I think I can help him with some information about how this can be done. One of things that he can do is to relook at the cost structure of the whole sector and reconfigure it. This will make it attractive enough for investment and tourism. At the same time, it will also be paying a lot of money to the Government coffers. At lot of hon. Ministers have been coming to talk about the cost of tourism products in this House. Now, what is the current minister doing? He should not tell us how expensive the product is when it is possible to look at the cost structure of the sector.

 

Mr Chiteme: Question!

 

Mr Belemu: Yes, you can question.

 

Interruptions

 

Mr Nkombo: He looks like a tourist attraction.

 

Laughter

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, I feel the hon. Minister has not done sufficient work to address the matters that are affecting this sector.

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours. 

 

[THE FIRST CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was about to propose a few things for the hon. Minister’s consideration. I would like to propose to the hon. Minister to seriously reconsider the reopening of the Kasaba Bay and the greater area around there because Zambia’s tourism products cannot be marketed in isolation.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Belemu:  Madam Chairperson, while I agree that Livingstone must be expanded, I know that we have equally important product areas that must be connected to it. For example, we have heard about the Kalomo/Dundumwezi/Kafue National Park Road. You need to prioritise it so that you quickly link Livingstone into the Kafue National Park.

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear! Kumenda abila.

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, the second thing I want to propose is that the hon. Minister should not shy away from issues. For example, some of the staff that we find in Zambian Embassies and high commissions as tourism attaches do not qualify to be so. Some of them can hardly spell their names. They are there only because they were political cadres.

 

Hon. PF Members: Question!

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Belemu: Recall them and replace them with people that qualify.

 

Madam Chairperson, the third thing is that your insistence on linking Zambia’s tourism product to those in neighbouring countries is doing damage to our tourism. For example, you would benefit more from Namibia because German tourists go to there and can come to Zambia. However, your insistence, for example, on Zimbabwe is not yielding as many results as you would want us to believe you can get. You need to re-examine whether it positions Zambia correctly or not.

 

 This is why, now, even dances that were endemic to Zambia, like the Makishi, are being found in Zimbabwe in the name of working together. These are Zambian products that we should have promoted as such.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister and his colleagues in sector ministries need to review a number of policies to start supporting tourism. It is not enough to pick tourism alone without looking at so many other ministries. For example, I have in mind the Ministry of Local Government. How are councils behaving vis a vis tourism? They are not helpful, by and large.

 

Madam Chairperson, you cannot attract people when, every rain season, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) announces an imminent outbreak of cholera. How can we attract tourists? You cannot have your colleagues in other ministries always pronouncing imminent danger or doom’s day...

 

Mr Sing’ombe: Bakalilwa kujaya mansenya.

 

Mr Belemu: ... or how the police will deal this and that one and think that tourists will come to this country.

 

We need to accelerate the development of a master plan for Zambia’s tourism. I think that we have talked about it for years. Let us accelerate it. It is very important that this process is quickly done. Most importantly, assure investors and the public that the policies that you embark on will be long term in nature.

 

Madam Chairperson, there have been so many changes in the short run. One moment, there is an incentive because the World Tourism Organisation (WTO) is coming and people are allowed bring in this and that duty free, but  you want to change that within one season. This does not assure any would be investor in the tourism sector.

 

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Belemu: Madam Chairperson, there is need to accelerate the measurement of tourism. This is why, even when the hon. Minister talked about the success of the Museum Board, the first thing was the payment of salaries. This is not success. How can we glorify ourselves about the payment of salaries and call it a success?  We want success to be discussed in terms of the tourism volume vis a vis the quantum and the benefit to the economy.

 

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Belemu: This is what we are looking for. Not the payment of salaries, attendance of many meetings and the development of a strategic plan for one institution within the ministry.

 

Madam Chairperson, ordinarily, I would not support the hon. Minister, but I am constrained because we need tourism to move. We need to continue to market tourism and the hon. Minister has to confront the issues as they are in the sector today. We have done so much damage by shying away from confronting the issues and hoping that, somehow, by a miracle, it will be repaired. It will not be repaired. Some of the damage comes from the hon. Minister’s colleagues. He should watch what they say, for example, on the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Television news from line one to the end and see whether it promotes what he has told us.  Three quarters of what they tell us does not promote Zambia’s tourism.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to debate the Budget for the Ministry of Tourism and Arts. From the outset, I wish to state that I support the Budget except to say that, in fact, the amount provided is too little.

 

Madam Speaker, I think that tourism is one of those sectors that we have been speaking about for a long time. We have talked about its potential, the number of game parks we have and how nice Zambia is, but unfortunately, like agriculture, this industry is just not growing. It is stagnant and is not creating jobs. For me, who is from Liuwa, I feel very sad because I ask myself the question: ‘why should farmers, industrialists and bankers pay money to conserve wildlife when the wildlife itself has the capacity to generate money to conserve itself through wildlife tourism, but this is not happening.

 

Madam Speaker, we need to look at what used to happen a few years ago to show that the industry has not been growing. Of all the international visitors to the Southern African Development Community (SADC) countries, only about 3 per cent came to Zambia. If there has been an improvement, I doubt whether it has grown to more than 5 per cent. You can agree with me that receiving 3 per of visitors to the SADC area is certainly not being serious.

 

Madam Chairperson, you also see it plainly when you go to some of our colleagues’ countries where tourism is thriving like Kenya, Botswana and South Africa. You do not need to be told that there is tourism in this country because when you go the tourist sites, you find crowds of tourists.

 

Madam Chairperson, the other year, when we went to Tanzania, we were lucky enough to be taken to the Ngorongoro. It was incredible to see the number of motor vehicles at the tourist sites. It looked like motor vehicles that had gone to a soccer stadium. There were so many of them.

 

So, when we go to our sites like Livingstone or Kafue National Park you can hardly see a tourist. That clearly shows that this industry is not moving and creating jobs and growing the economy. So, why is the industry not growing? Here, I think hon. Belemu, did justice to outline a number of factors that are making it difficult for the tourism industry to thrive. I am going to pick two because there is some other issue that I want to talk about Liuwa for I come from a national park.

 

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: I heard the hon. Minister say that they are going to intervene here and there. I think there are too many interventions already. In my view, if we were to focus on a limited number of interventions those could probably take you 70 percent to the solutions that the hon. Minister is looking for. Intervention number, the issue of high cost of tourists services in Zambia.

 

Madam Chairperson, the good thing these days is that you can go on the internet and try to book yourself a hotel even just for the sake of research, last night I did that for Livingstone, the most expensive hotel on the Victoria Falls side for example, is about US$250 per night, on the Zambian side, it is US$500.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Uh!

 

Dr Musokotwane: So, you ask yourself the question, the facility that we have there is the same. It is like the way East and West Germany were. People said development is about culture. On the one side of Germany you had communist Germany and the other side capitalist Germany of the same culture but you find that one system moved faster than the other one. Similarly, Victoria Falls is a very interesting experiment. We are selling the same product which is the Victoria Falls and off course the surrounding game parks but on the Zimbabwean side especially those days before the crisis, it was always full while on the Zambian side it was not. When you had that United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) Conference, we discovered or everyone knows that most of the people preferred to go to the Zimbabwean side, why? On the Zambia side it is too expensive. This is true, you go to some of these so called resorts in the lower Zambezi and so forth, people are charging US$2,000 or US$1,000 per night. What kind of crowds can you actually attract?

 

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: How can you grow an industry like that? It will never happen. What I wait to hear from the Government is what formula have they put in place to lower the cost of being a tourist in Zambia, so that, like in South Africa, on US$60, US$80 or US$100 you can stay in a good facility, what is the formula? If you do not produce that formula, I am afraid we will be talking all the time but the industry is not going to grow.

 

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, the second point that I want to bring to your attention is the issue of product diversity especially in the wildlife subsector. All the time we talk about Livingstone and the Victoria Falls, how many people are you going to keep in Zambia? They come to the Victoria Falls they sit for one or two days after that they would have seen everything and they will say bye, yet you want to keep these people maybe for two weeks or longer so that we earn more money from them. In this respect, Madam Chairperson, I want to criticise the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and I hope they are going to take this constructively. The criticism is that it was very unfortunate that the Kasaba Bay program was destroyed.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear

 

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Chairperson, I know you are familiar with these issues but I do not want to draw you into my debate. Kasaba Bay area sits in the middle of Africa; it has got fantastic facilities because there is water, a beach and wildlife, and so it became a perfect target for conference tourism together with leisure. If you have an African conference, you can draw people from West, East, Southern and North Africa, everyone will find Kasaba Bay to be the centre then they can have funny.

 

Mr Chansa: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: That was how the Kasaba Bay programme was development. What was required was first of all to lengthen the airport because the airport that Dr Kenneth Kaunda used to use was too small so money was spent. When these PF colleagues came into office, they abandoned the airport project.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: One thousand bags of cement or something like that was allowed to be soaked in the rain. As we speak today, that airport is just like the way it was left in 2011, totally abandoned. We needed a big aircraft to be able to send people to Kasaba Bay not ten or fifteen people. What else was required? You needed to have electricity because if you are going to have big hotels there, they cannot survive on solar, you need power. This is how the power line was drawn from Mpulungu all the way to Kasaba Bay. It was done during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) days.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: The Third thing that was done, Madam Chairperson, the power was not enough. Power was coming from .... What is the name of that place?

 

Mr Ng’onga: Lunzuwa!

 

Dr Musokotwane: Lunzuwa. At that time Lunzuwa was generating only 0.75 mega watts which was not enough to push electricity to Kasaba Bay and to drive tourism and so forth. So, I get surprised from our colleagues in PF when they say Lunzuwa hydro power project is ours. It is not yours because you do not even understand how it came about. So, let me explain how it came about.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: It came about because we needed sufficient electricity for hotels to settle up in the Kasaba Bay area so this is how the loan to fund the Lunzuwa hydro power project came about to raise production of electricity from 0.75 mega watts to something like 13 or 14 mega watts which was more than sufficient.

 

Mr Ng’onga: Are you sure!

 

Dr Musokotwane: Then you also needed a road from Mbala to Kasaba Bay because the local people needed to be brought in for them to transport their cattle, fish and vegetables to Kasaba Bay. So, the whole thing was integrated at that time, as we speak now, if these colleagues in the PF Government had not abandoned that project, we would have been making money out of Kasaba Bay.

 

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: So, hon. Minister, I think it is time to face your colleagues and tell them in the face that you made a mistake, you were short sighted but now let us revive this project.

 

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: This is where money should be getting into.

 

Mr Livune: And apologise.

 

Dr Musokotwane: Of course he should apologise.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Musokotwane: I have also looked at the issue of marketing; I notice that the amount of money given for marketing tourism this year has actually gone down. Last year it was something like K900 million but this year it is something like K670 million. Surely, how do you expect the industry to grow like that?

 

Lastly, Madam Chairperson, I said I will say something about Liuwa …

 

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: … because Liuwa Constituency sits right in the middle of the game park. We live with the animals. In fact, we are the only game park in Zambia where people are allowed to live in the game park. My village house is right in the game park.

 

Mr Kampyongo: Takwata ne ng’anda!

 

Dr Musokotwane: What we ask out of you hon. Minister,

 

Mr Mwale consulted with Mr C Banda.

 

Dr Musokotwane: I think Hon. Mwale is disturbing you, because this is very important…

 

Laughter

 

Mr Mwale showed dissent.

 

Dr Musokotwane: … what we need out of Liuwa, sorry Hon. Mwale, please create a road, even a gravel road so that people or investors can go and invest inside the game park. Right now, you are telling the villagers who have known for two to three hundred years that wild animals are there to be eaten…

 

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Musokotwane: … but now you tell them do not eat these animals. The people ask the question, why should we not eat the animals and the Government says we want people to be watching the animals, people cannot understand that.

 

What is required is a practical demonstration of how the people of Liuwa can make money out of the animals. Otherwise, they will not understand when they are told to protect the animals for sight-seeing.

 

Madam Chairperson, with that recollection, I also want to say that although we tend to dramatise the relationship between the people and wildlife, there are actually a lot of human and animal problems. The wild beasts and buffalos now love to eat rice in people’s fields and do not want to eat grass. Therefore, I hope that there isa budgetary provision for dealing with human and animal conflicts and how they can be resolved. The officers are sometimes overzealous and they beat people and force them to do all sorts of things. We even had a case where some guards were killed because of the way the officers handle people.

 

Madam Chairperson, finally, I would like to ask the Government to re-examine the boundary of the Liuwa Plain National Park. Those inside the national park should be moved to the Game Management Areas (GMAs) because they are not allowed to cut trees or kill snakes.How can they live like that?

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity and I support the budget.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Members, if we are going to exhaust the entire fifteen minutes, we may have to bring beds and beddings on the last day. Let us try to deliver our points below fifteen minutes. It is possible.

 

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Madam Chairperson, I will not take much time. I just want to contribute to the debate and to support the budget for the Ministry of Tourism and Arts. However, I just want to raise a few concerns on this debate.

 

Madam Chairperson, in Zambia, tourism has not been promoted. The promotion of tourism is normally focused on Victoria Falls in Livingstone and a few areas which we learnt about in social studies. Therefore, I would like to appeal to the Ministry of Tourism and Arts to startpromoting tourism locally to enable Zambians visit the local tourist areas, although it may be expensive, instead ofthem going outside the country.

 

Madam Chairperson, in South Africa, I once saw an advertisement on Victoria Falls. Most tourists from Europe fly toSouth Africaand visitKruger National Park. However, after seeing the advertisement, theywant to see the Victoria Falls meanwhile they would have spent all their money in South Africa. I think we have to be aggressive when promoting our tourism and we can also introduce the outside world to our traditional ceremonies. In Zambia, we only promote the Kuomboka and Nc’wala Ceremonies meanwhile we have a lot of traditional ceremonies in other parts of the country. In Chienge, we have the Shilaand BuilileTraditional Ceremonies. However, most tourists only attend the Nc’wala Ceremonyin the Eastern Province or KuombokaCeremony in the Western Province.I have never seen any tourist attend the Umutomboko Ceremony in Mwata Kazembe’s Chiefdom.

 

Madam Chairperson, therefore, I would like to suggest that the ministry should focus on marketing other tourism events that take place in the country. Also, the Government shouldconsider bringing back the remains of broken hill man which were taken to England like South Africa did in the case of Sarah Baartman. Most tourists from Europe go to South Africa to seethe remains of Sarah Baartman and the country makes money. However, when we want to go to England to see the remains of broken hill man, we are sometimes denied the visa.

 

Interruptions

 

The First Chairperson:Order! The consultations on my right are loud. Order, hon. Ministers in the middle bench.

 

Ms Katuta: Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts should attend some traditional ceremonies in order to appreciate the value they add to the society. Most of the time, Provincial Permanent Secretaries are sent to attend the traditional ceremonies and if the Government does not appreciate these ceremonies, who is going to appreciate and market them to the outside world?

 

Madam Chairperson, I would also like to suggest to the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts to collaborate with the ministry responsible for educationand introduce tourism studies in secondary schools, and maybe even in primary schools like it is done in other countries, in order for the students to understand and also appreciate the tourist attractions in the country.

 

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, I support the budget.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mr Jere: Madam Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to also add my voice to this important vote. I come from Livingstone, the tourist capital city of Zambia, and was once the capital city of Zambia and headquarters of the Southern Province. However, one of the reasons that the PF Government decided to move the provincial headquarters from Livingstone to Choma was that they wanted to leave Livingstone for tourism activities although we have seen a decline in tourist arrivals.

 

Madam Chairperson, before I go into detail, I would like to congratulate the former hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts, Hon. Sylvia Masebo.

 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Jere: Madam Chairperson, from deep down my heart, I would like to say that she did tremendous work prior to Zambia hosting the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO).Therefore, Livingstone is one of the cities in this country with novendors in the central business area.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!    

 

Mr Jere: Madam Chairperson, that is a result of our efforts. Indeed, when we talk about tourists, we need to be focused as a country. The hon. Minister indicated that there was a decline in the number of tourist arrivals. I would like to talk about the Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula International Airport. During the first half of 2015, we recorded 21,000 tourist arrivals. In the first half of 2016, we had 19,000. In Victoria Falls Border town, in 2015, we had 31,600 arrivals while the first half of 2016 recorded 24,000 arrivals. In Katima Mulilo, we had 14,900 arrivals in 2015, and 10,000 arrivals in 2016. In 2015, Kariba had 38,000 arrivals and 8,000 in 2016. You can see the numbers going down.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Dununa.

 

Mr Jere: Madam Chairperson, indeed, this sector has suffered. This is what I may call dununa reverse.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr Jere: Madam Chairperson, when we talk about responsible tourism, we are talking about a total package, which includes the involvement of the locals. It is high time we marketed our culture. It is high time we marketed our tourism sites. Indeed, 98 per cent of the Victoria Falls are in Zambia and not in Zimbabwe or South Africa. However, when it comes to marketing this natural wonder, we have failed. I feel that this ministry should connect with other ministries such as the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting in marketing the country’s tourism. The Ministry of Tourism and Art should be given free airtime on TV to market tourism in Zambia. Unfortunately, that has not happened. What we are seeing are political adverts, year in year out.

 

Madam Chairperson, when you look at the roads to tourism sites, you will see that bridges have been washed away, and this is something we have been reporting. So, how do you expect tourists to get to those tourism destinations when there are no bridges in the national parks? It is impossible. When you talk about activities, all you have to do is just compare Zimbabwe and Zambia and you will note that the Zambian side has more activities than the Zimbabwean side. So, what have we done to make these activities attractive? When you talk about the big five, how many of these animals do we actually have in these game parks? When one talks about the big five wild animals, they would be talking about the lions. However, when a tourist arrives in Livingstone, they expect to see the big five. Unfortunately, they will only see elephants and monkeys. That on its own leaves tourists disappointed. We thank Senior Chief Mukuni who has now tamed these animals and whoever wants to see these animals in Livingstone, simply has to go to the Mukuni Big Five and they will be able to see the lions among other animals. These are not in the game parks. Even the birds cannot be seen in game parks now, and that is shameful.

 

Madam Chairperson, the bed occupancy has also reduced because of the high rates beinbg charged. However, in the first half of 2016, the Northern part of Zambia recorded a good number compared to where tourism is supposed to be at its peak. The bed occupancy is going down. This is because the room rates are too high.

 

Madam Chairperson, in his statement, the hon. Minister talked about introducing tourism levy on accommodation, which he hopes to effect next year in February. This will automatically see a rise in bed space and food stuffs, which will lead to further reductions in the numbers that I have talked about. How is the industry then, going to survive? I am afraid that Livingstone, will, in a few years to come, be a ghost town. People that were running take-away places have started closing down. If you go to Fallspark, you will be sad to see that the only tenants there are officers from the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA). The others have closed down. This is how difficult it is to do business in Livingstone. One has to obtain a number of licences before establishing a business.

 

Madam Chairperson, there was a move to make a one-stock shop where people could get everything under one roof. However, that is not the case, if you go to the one-stock shop, all you will see there are just desks. There are no people to make decisions. I, therefore, want to appeal to the hon. Minister to put officers in that office so that they can make certain decisions. People will go there with intentions to invest in businesses. However, because of the procedure of obtaining papers required for one to establish a business, they get frustrated and go back with their money. This office must be effective and efficient, but that is not the case. Instead, we have officers in Lusaka controlling tourism all over the country. That cannot work, let us decentralise tourism so that people can effectively deliver the services that we need in this country.

 

Madam Chairperson, this sector is one of the largest employers. When you look at our brothers and sisters in this sector, you will note that some of them obtained very good marks at Grade 12, but because they have no one to support them further their education, they end up in this industry. These can be supported by improving their conditions of service. It is shocking that today, when you go to Zimbabwe, you find a company from Zambia called Bungee Jumping, which has employed workers from both Zimbabwe and Zambia, yet the conditions of service for the workers are different. The conditions of service for Zimbabweans are better than the ones for their Zambian counterparts yet they are doing similar jobs. This is where the Ministry of Labour and Social Security comes in to ensure that these employees are well looked after.

 

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, let me also bring in an environmental issue. For some time now, we have been complaining about Livingstone having too many mosquitoes. We know that mosquitoes are associated with malaria. This is also chasing away tourists. The moment they hear that this year, there are too many mosquitoes in Livingstone, they will run away. This is a tourist destination. So, what have we done about these mosquitoes? We have not sprayed or done anything to get rid of these mosquitoes. Therefore, people go back to their countries with negative statements about Zambia. Mind you, a lot of major conferences are held in Livingstone. What is it that the people who are supposed to market Zambia talk about when they get back to their home countries? They will go and say Livingstone is full of mosquitoes. Therefore, we should move in and spray so that as a tourist destination, Livingstone becomes disease free.

 

I thank you Madam.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to debate. I will be very brief. The heart of the matter is that we need to create employment in the tourism sector because we have so many young people seeking employment.

 

Therefore, in supporting the Vote for the Ministry of Tourism and Arts, I urge that we audit the assets that we have. In Kanchibiya for example, we have the very rare black Lechwe. Those who can manage fly in to see this wonder. You will note, however, that the roads leading to this area are not accessible. So, if we audit we can actually access this area and open it up by investing in road network. Only then can tourism, as in Kenya, provide employment to our people and add to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of our nation.

 

Secondly, I want to draw the attention of this august House to our National Museum and Heritage. A Portuguese man traversed our lands much earlier than the British and the French. This means that there is a lot of historical information that is held in Angola and, especially Mozambique. As these people traversed our lands and interacted with our people, they wrote first hand information about our people. I, therefore, urge the hon. Minister of Tourism and Arts that we visit Mozambique and Angola and see what they have, even though it is written in Portuguese, for the benefit of our people.

 

Particularly, I have a man in mind that our people in the southern and western parts of the nation called Jolosi, but whose real name was actually George Westbeech.  George Westbeech interacted very closely with the Matebele or Ndebele as well as our people in the Southern and Western Provinces. He helped bring the peace when the Ndebele were attacking our lands and getting our livestock. This information that he collected was taken back to Angola, his place of origin. We need to follow-up this information and beef up what we know.

 

I want to thank, posthumously, His Majesty King Lewanika for being one of the very few to record such information. If you go to Lealui, you will find a museum with continuous information.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Malama: You can trace this information.

 

If you go to my grandson’s village, the one who just spoke, you will not find this information. If you go to the Western Province, for example, they will tell you that on 6th July, 1851, Dr David Livingstone was at Linyanti and met with Sebitwane. They will also tell you that on 7th July, 1851, Sebitwane died.

 

This information will come through because King Lubosi Lewanika was able to sit down with the young people who came from Paris, under the Paris Evangelical Mission Society, to preach. This is how Sefula got established. He sat down with Adolphe Jalla and François Coillard to write down the history.

 

When you go to the museum in Limulunga, they will start by telling you that they got a chief from Lukwakwa in Kabompo in August, 1864. They will tell you that from 1864 to 1876, this chief reigned and was succeeded by a young man called Mwanawina II. They will tell you that from 1878 to 1884, a very young man then by the name of Lubosi Lewanika took over. They will also tell you that in 1884, they went back to Kabompo and got a son of Imasiku called Tatila Akufuna and brought him with them. This information is documented. However, this information is not documented in many of our chiefdoms.

 

I implore the hon. Minister that when I go to my five chiefdoms in Kanchibiya, I would like to have such information. This information, if not passed over by this generation, will get lost.

 

Madam Chairperson, in 1916 …

 

Mr Ngulube: In conclusion!

 

Dr Malama: Yes, in conclusion.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Malama: However, before I conclude, I want an assurance that future generations will not miss this information simply because someone wanted me to conclude.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Malama: Just as I am talking about my other grandson, the other one is telling me to conclude. 

 

Laughter

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

Hon. Dr. Malama, there are no grandsons here.

 

Laughter

 

The First Chairperson: I know that you do not have grandsons here. Continue.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Malama: You are right, Madam Chairperson. In here they may be hon. Members, but they know that they are grandchildren.

 

Laughter

 

Dr Malama: However, I will not stress this point.

 

Madam Chairperson, we would like to see this history. We would like to see the Ministry of Tourism and Arts work very closely with the Ministry of Home Affairs, particularly in places like Livingstone where they can interact with the tourism police. We need to get best practices from round about the world and employ it, not in rhetoric. We need to invest and give comfort and weld good and predictable expectations so that a tourist is much happier to visit Zambia than they would other countries that I do not want to mention here.

 

Mr Ngulube: Congo!

 

Laughter

 

Dr Malama: We need to beat that record. We have to position ourselves as a nation so that we can package our tourism in a way that creates employment, especially for our young people who are looking to us for employment …

 

Hon. Government Members: …and good decisions.

 

Dr Malama: I believe that this can be done.

 

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Malama: I heard one of my brothers lament on the lack of a national airline. I want to join him in his lamentation except that it was not in 2011 but 1992 when our national airline left the skies.

We should not politicise these things, but instead we should advise our Government to think about the airline in a much more serious manner so that we could be bring more resources into our country.

 

Madam Chairperson, if we look at what is happening in Ethiopia and compare it to our country, you would find that people make connections in Addis Ababa before connecting to their destinations. Sometimes, they spend nights there and in the process, spend money because they have to buy the Ethiopian products before flying to their destinations. By so doing, they are creating employment for the Ethiopians. We really need to look at our superlative advantage. How many neighbouring countries do we have? We are the hub. I am grateful to see that our Government has taken the issue of infrastructure development very seriously. For instance, they are expanding the Ndola International and the Kenneth Kaonda International Airport. This is the way we should think about our National affairs going forward.

 

 Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Nitumezi!

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Madam Chairperson, first of all, I want to acknowledge the fact that despite the combative approach of debate from some of my colleagues on your left, we are all speaking the same language and we are in support of the developing tourism in Zambia. I am sure the aggressive approach is merely showing affection to the industry. We want to make sure that we are on the same footing and put the tourism industry where it belongs.

 

Mind you, His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu made it very clear on the Floor of the House that we have to transform the Ministry of Tourism and Art from a social ministry to and economic ministry.

 

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr C. R. Banda: This simply means that the approach of handling matters should now change because it is a task that has been given to us. It is also a task which the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has to execute diligently and properly because we are have task to raise the much needed foreign exchange for this country.

 

Madam, we have now been rated among the three top-most economic ministries thus, Mines and Mineral Development, Agriculture and then Tourism and Art. This means that we have to change and implement policies that are going to turn around the entire sector so that we can realise what we have been tasked to do. With time and finances permitting, we want to move from the 4 per cent contribution to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to at least to 4, 8 up to 10 per cent.

 

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Belemu talked about the challenges and identified one of them as the airlines. He gave the impression that the PF Government ran down Zambia Airways. I would like to state that we did not liquidate the airline. We should have our facts correct.

 

Madam, the Zambia Airways did not go under during the PF Government Regime. It was liquidated a long time ago in the 1990s. Let us talk about what we own as a people of this country. We are not going to talk about other people’s business as your own. Zambia Airways was ours, mine and you, hon. Member. So, when we talk about failure of aviation, we are going to talk about how we lost the National airline and when we lost it. What we should bear in mind is that airline was not liquidated by the PF Government.

 

Madam Chairperson some hon. Members are talked about low traffic in as far as airlines are concerned. It just shows that some hon. Members do not travel because those who travel know very well that if you went to airport today, aeroplanes follow each other when landing.

 

Laughter

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Madam, before passengers disembark, the South African Airline would be landing. Before the passengers disembark, the Ethiopian Airlines would be landing. Before the Ethiopian Airlines passengers disembark, Emirates airline is landing ...

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Mr C. R. Banda: … and all of them are full with people who are coming to visit Zambia.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Chairperson, the issue of Kasaba Bay is being considered under the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC). The IDC is developing Kasaba Bay. I wish the hon. Member had known about this because he was not going to talk about it.

 

Madam Chairperson, we are doing product development involving heritage museums, art and culture. Hon. Members may care to know that these issues relate to the history of this country. We have brought our friends from France to help us come up with a museum of natural history in Lusaka. All the history that you parrot here will be found at that museum. That is why in this budget, we have asked for money to do research so that we can have more of that history in the museum.

 

It is unfortunate that the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa talked about the animal-human conflict in that way. I am not sure what he wanted to achieve. Was he trying to tell the House that he was happy that his voters killed a police officer there?

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Our police officer was killed there and I do not think that should bring happiness at all. Instead, we are supposed to be finding ways of harmonising the situation. There are more than 10,000 people living in Liuwa Plain National Park and we expect a lot of conflict where there are animals and people. The hon. Member of Parliament should work with us to see how we can harmonise the situation in that park.

 

Madam Chairperson, I also listened to the contribution by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chiengi. Let me comment on the issue of bringing back the skull of the Broken Hill Man to Zambia. We are already talking about it. Getting it back is not as easy as going to ask for water next door.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

 

Mr C. R. Banda: It is a very serious situation. Those people in London also want to keep it in their museum of natural history. However, we are talking to them and we hope that we will be able to bring that skull back because it has more importance and relevance here in Zambia than where it is. We are using the United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) to help us so that we can get that skull back.

 

Regarding the lack of promotion of the tourism industry, let me say that the role of promoting the tourism industry is under the Zambia Tourist Agency. It is the responsibility of the Government to bail out the Zambia Tourist Agency to ensure that it is marketing and doing enough promotion of the tourist sites in Zambia. We have a lot of them. The northern circuit of Zambia is very rich. All we need to do is exert a lot of strength and power to develop that area so that more tourists can visit it. When they visit, we intend to keep them there longer instead of them staying only for a day just to see the falls and then go away. We should invite them to go to South Luangwa, North Luangwa, Mporokoso and Kasaba Bay. All that is part of the master plan which we are developing with the help of the European Union (EU), which I would like to thank.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

VOTE 68/01 – (Ministry of Tourism and ArtsHuman Resource and Administration – K66,378,209).

 

Ms Lubezhi: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1010, Activity 019 – Inspection and Monitoring of Revenue Collection – K352,016. In his policy statement, the hon. Minister said that the ministry uses the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) for revenue collection. Therefore, why should this activity gobble so much money?

 

Ms Lubezhi: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1010, Activity 019 – Inspection and monitoring of Revenue Collection – K352,016, I have noticed that it has gone up to K352,016 from K186,748. My question is: In his Policy Statement, the hon. Minister said that they use Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) for revenue collection. So, if they use one institution for revenue collection why should their inspection and monitoring of revenue collection gobble so much?

 

The Chairperson: Page 824, Programme 1010 – Financial Management and Accounting, Activity 019 – Inspection and Monitoring of Revenue Collection. Does the hon. Minister need some help?

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Madam Chairperson, ZRA will only collect tourism levy.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Interruptions

 

Ms Lubezhi: Madam Chairperson, if ZRA is only collecting tourism levy then what is this revenue here which you will be monitoring?

 

The Chairperson: Do you want to be reminded?

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Which programme and activity?

 

The Chairperson: It is on page 824, Programme 1010 – Financial Management and Accounting, Activity 019 – Inspection and Monitoring of Revenue Collection.

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Madam Chairperson, this provision is there because there is also other tax revenue which is collected by the ministry and will need resources for that.

 

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 

The Chairperson: Are you able to indicate what type of revenue?

 

Laughter

 

Mr C. R. Banda: We issue permits as well, Madam Chairperson.

 

Mr Livune (Katombola): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1002, Activities 034 – Secretaries Day as well as 044 – Nil, Youth Day Celebrations – Nil, I have noticed that these two activities have not been budgeted for may I know the reason why?

 

Mr C. R. Banda: That is about cost saving measures, Madam Chairperson.

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Vote 26/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 68/02 – (Ministry of Tourism and ArtsPlanning and Information Department – K8,404,346)

 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification from the hon. Minister who is doing so well …

 

Laughter

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

Dr Kalila: … on Programme 1050, Activity 700 – Development of National Tourism Master Plan (1) – K3,336,598, could the hon. Minister explain why development of this tourism master plan is going to gobble so much?

Interruptions

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Chairperson, Programme 1050, Activity 700 – Development of National Tourism Master Plan (1) – K3,336,598, this is a project which is going to assist us to find a way forward in developing tourism. We are being also being assisted by the European Union.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Opposition Members: How?!

 

Mr Mutelo: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1030 – Bilateral, Multilateral and Regional Co-operation - Nil, Programme 1050 – Coordination of Ministerial and Inter-Ministerial Programmes – Nil, Programme 1120 – Monitoring and Evaluation - Nil, Programme 1127 – Parliamentary Business and Cabinet Affairs - Nil, Programme 1192 – Budget Preparation - Nil, Programme 1407 – Public Private Partnerships - Nil, Programme 1019 – Sector Statistics - Nil, Programme 1092 – Information Provision and Dissemination - Nil, Programme 1124 – Management Information Systems - Nil, and Programme 1142 – Infrastructure Management – Nil. Why are there no allocations for all the programmes and activities?

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Chairperson, Programme 1030 – Bilateral, Multilateral and Regional Co-operation - Nil, Programme 1050 – Coordination of Ministerial and Inter-Ministerial Programmes – Nil, Programme 1120 – Monitoring and Evaluation - Nil, Programme 1127 – Parliamentary Business and Cabinet Affairs - Nil, Programme 1192 – Budget Preparation - Nil, Programme 1407 – Public Private Partnerships - Nil, Programme 1019 – Sector Statistics - Nil, Programme 1092 – Information Provision and Dissemination - Nil, Programme 1124 – Management Information Systems - Nil, and Programme 1142 – Infrastructure Management – Nil, most of the activities have been moved to priority programmes.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Mrs Chonya: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1124, Activity 024 – Maintenance of Website – Nil. The website plays a vital role in tourism and marketing. How does the Government intend to market in case this website breaks down because there is no allocation.

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Chairperson, this provision is required to maintain the Ministry of Tourism and Arts website keeping it up to date and covering payments of bills for hosting the websites and other administrative costs ...

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Minister, it is not there.

 

Laughter

 

The First Chairperson: There is no allocation.

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Chairperson, it has been transferred to the Zambia Tourism Agency.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 

Vote 68/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

 

VOTE 68/03 (Ministry of Tourism and ArtsTourism Development Department – K24,956,810)

 

Dr Kalila: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1304, Activity 001 – Collection and Monitoring – Nil, Activity 012 – Tourism Fund Management Committee – Nil and Activity 013 – Development of Tourism Levy Modalities – Nil. There is no allocation for any of these for 2017. How do we hope to maintain standards in this respect?

 

Mr C. Banda: Madam Chairperson, Programme 1304, Activity 001 – Collection and Monitoring – Nil, Activity 012 – Tourism Fund Management Committee – Nil and Activity 013 – Development of Tourism Levy Modalities – Nil, these are no longer under the Ministry as they have been moved to the Zambia Development Agency.

 

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Livune: Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1179, Activity 019 – Promote International and Regional Co-operation in Tourism – K100,000 and Activity 021, Multilateral Tourism Development and Coordination – K200,000. What is the difference between these two activities?

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Madam Chairperson, Activity 019, Promote International and Regional Co-operation in Tourism is required for workshops, meetings, conferences, bilateral and multilateral regional convention agreements and treaties in tourism. The increase in the provision is due to increased activities.

 

Madam Chairperson, Activity 021, Multilateral Tourism Development and Coordination is required to meet the costs of participation in the United National World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) events. Zambia is a member of the UNWTO which aims at championing co-operation among countries on tourism matters. The increase is required to cater for currency exchange fluctuations.

 

I thank you, Sir.

 

Vote 68/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

Vote 68/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

VOTE 68/05 – (Ministry of Tourism and ArtsNational Parks and Wildlife Area Management – K122,675,377).

 

Mr Chaatila: Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K958,000. You will notice that the amount has gone quite high and this is a general trend in the other lines on this same programme. May I know why we are providing for these huge amounts?

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Madam Chairperson, this provision is required for the hosting of the Lusaka Agreement Governing Council (LAGC). The provision is for holding of management meetings and smooth running of the director’s office and human resource officers.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Dr Kalila: Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification Programme 1001, Activity 003, Office Administration – K247,208. The previous allocation was K16,788 and now it has gone exponentially to K247,208. Why do we have this very exponential rise in this activity?

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Madam Chairperson, Programme 1001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K247,208. This provision is required to facilitate the procurement of office materials and fuel for the smooth running of the unit and for holding supervisory meetings within the unit and with stakeholders.

 

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

 

The First Chairperson: The question was why the increase.

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Madam Chairperson, it was because of the anticipated increase in activities.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

Ms Lubezhi: Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1259, Activity 002 – Rehabilitation of Existing Infrastructure and Construction – K333,901, Activity 702 – Monitoring of Construction Works –  K523,017.

 

Interruptions

 

The First Chairperson: Order in the House! Order hon. Members!

 

Ms Lubezhi: Which one of the two activities should have a bigger allocation?

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Madam Chairperson, Programme 1259, Activity 002 – Rehabilitation of Existing Infrastructure and Construction – K333,901 is required to facilitate the procurement of materials for the rehabilitation of existing infrastructure and construction of roads in national parks.

 

Madam, Activity 702 – Monitoring of Construction Works K523,017 is required to facilitate procurement of fuel and allowances for monitoring of construction works on the new and existing infrastructure.

 

I thank you, Madam.

 

The First Chairperson: Hon. Members, I am looking at the clock now and we have three minutes before the end of the time, today. If you allow me, I can go through this head and finish before 1955 hours.

 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 

The First Chairperson: Please, make your interventions brief or do not make them at all because ...

 

 Laughter

 

Ms Chonya rose.

 

Mr Ngulube: Order Kafue!

 

Ms Chonya (Kafue): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1000, Activity 003 – Salaries Division III – K62,010,380. What is the justification for the rise from K2, 180,304?

 

Mr C. R. Banda: Madam Chairperson, Programme 1000, Activity 003 – Salaries Division III – K62,010,380 is required for the payment of salaries of Division I officers. The decrease is due to officers moving from Division I to Division III during the actual transfer of officers from the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) to the new Department of National Parks and Wildlife.

 

I thank you.

 

Vote 68/05 and 68/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

 

The First Chairperson: Order!

 

_________

 

HOUSE RESUMED

 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

 

(Progress reported)

 

_________

 

The House adjourned at 1957 hours until 0900 hours on Wednesday, 14th December, 2016.