DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 15th October, 2013

The House met at 1430 hours 

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM 

PRAYER

__________

ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Deputy Speaker: I have two announcements to make.

Hon. Members, I have received communication …

Mr Lubinda entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: Order, zayelo!

Laughter 

Mr Deputy Speaker: … to the effect that, in the absence of his Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other national duties, Hon. Edgar C. Lungu, MP, Minister of Home Affairs, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House today, Tuesday, 15th October, 2013.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT FOOTBALL AND NETBALL MATCHES ON 18TH OCTOBER, 2013

Mr Deputy Speaker: Following the Hon. Mr Speaker’s announcement on 9th October, 2013, on the football match between the National Assembly hon. Members of Parliament Football team and Diplomats, on 18th October, 2013, at 1550 hours, at the Olympic Youth Development Centre, I wish to further inform the House that the National Assembly hon. Members of Parliament Netball Team will also play a selected team of Diplomats on the same day at the same venue, starting at 1430 hours.

Hon. Members of the netball team should liaise with Hon. Berina Kawandami, MP, Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, on the training programme. The rest of the hon. Members are reminded to render support to the teams on 18th October, 2013, as this will be part of the hon. Members’ contribution to the commemoration and celebrations of Zambia’s Independence Day.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

__________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER 

THE TECHNICAL COMMITTEE ON DRAFTING THE ZAMBIAN CONSTITUTION
98.    Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Justice:

(a)    under which authority the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution was appointed; and 

(b)    whether, on completion of the its work, the technical committee would, simultaneously, submit the Draft Constitution to the Republican President and members of the public. 

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, appointed the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution on 16th November, 2011, in exercise of the executive powers vested in him by Articles 33 and 44 of the Constitution of Zambia, as read with the Inquires Act. 

Mr Speaker, under these constitutional provisions and, indeed, the Inquires Act, the Draft Constitution shall be submitted to the appointing authority who may, in his discretion, determine whether the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution should also submit the Draft Constitution to the general public.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his answer, mentioned Article 33 and 44 of the Constitution, as read with the Inquires Act. Having made mention of the Inquires Act, will the Government produce a White Paper?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister indicated previously, the road map will be determined after the submission of the Draft Constitution to His Excellency the President. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: On who?

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mucheleka rose on a point of order

Interruptions

Dr Kalila: … now that we have been informed that the road map will …

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order has been raised, but let me guide.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: If it is in relation to the question that the hon. Member for Lubansenshi asked, then, I think it is only right that if there is something that you would like clarified, it should not be through a point of order. If it is in relation to that, then, I will not give you the opportunity to raise the point of order.

Continue, hon. Member for Lukulu East.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the roadmap will only be known after submission to His Excellency the President. Who will then be responsible for the road map? Is His Excellency the President going to determine the roadmap for us Zambians?

The Minister of Home Affairs and Acting Leader of Government Business (Mr E. C. Lungu) (on behalf of the Minister of Justice (Mr Kabimba)): Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President has an Executive which is Cabinet. I am sure the Constitution will be discussed and then the way forward will be made known to the nation. This is because there are certain calls by the people of Zambia that we go by way of a referendum. All those considerations will be taken on board by His Excellency the President and the nation will be informed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, Hon. Mucheleka’s question was very specific. If it is by the Inquires Act, there is a requirement that a White Paper be produced. The question was whether the White Paper will be produced and that is my question.

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is how it should be done. In future, it is better for the person who asks the question and the follow-up question, but still seeks further clarification to go through someone else. 

Laughter

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, whether a White Paper will be done and issued will depend on considerations which will be made by His Excellency the President after he receives the Draft Constitution. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, one of the observations or complaints by the general public, in the past, have been that when the report is given to His Excellency the President, once it is prepared, there is fear that the document will be doctored. We have been told that it will be given to His Excellency the President, but this will not be done simultaneously with the general public. What is the difference between this Draft Constitution and the previous ones which have failed? 

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member may have been here when His Excellency the President opened the Third Session of the Eleventh National Assembly where he indicated very categorically that this Government intends to give the Zambian people a people-driven Constitution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, how safe are the people’s submissions if this Government does not want to simultaneously hand over the technical report to the public and His Excellency the President?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, people know what they submitted to the various committees and commissions which have been working on the Constitution. What will come out has to be a reflection of what the people aspire for. I do not see a situation where a Draft Constitution will be mutilated and fresh ideas brought on board. Like I have said, we will be mindful of what the people have been aspiring for and, then, the nation will be informed. There are aspects, for example, which require colossal funding such as a referendum. We will, therefore, need to consult the Ministry of Finance so that we chart a proper and definite way forward. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, what is the fear that the PF Government has in simultaneously handing over the Draft Constitution to His Excellency the President and the people of Zambia?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, there is no fear, whatsoever. I think in his discretion, His Excellency the President may decide to make the document available. The document which will go to him is the one we have been working on all along. Therefore, I do not see any difficulties that the hon. Member is referring to. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Government aims to produce a people-driven Constitution. Why, then, does the Government want to leave the people of Zambia behind?

Mr Lungu: Mr Speaker, people act through representatives, elected or appointed. I think the various organisations or stakeholder groupings which have dealt with the Constitution have been representatives of the people. We are in the Government because we were elected by the people. Therefore, what makes the hon. Member fear that we are leaving the people behind? We are with the people because we were elected by them and are speaking on their behalf.

I thank you, Sir.

LUAPULA PROVINCE POWER SUPPLY

99. Mr Mbulakulima asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)    what measures the Government had taken to improve the supply of electricity in Luapula Province;

(b)    what the total cost of improving the supply was; and

(c)    when the project would be completed.
The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) has embarked on two major projects, namely the construction of the Pensulo/Mpika/Kasama 330 kV Power Transmission Project and the upgrading of the Musonda Falls Station from 5 MW to a 10 MW. The transmission line will connect to the existing 66 kV network that supplies the Luapula Province in Kasama. The cost for the implementation of the transmission line is US$167,434,613. The upgrading of the power station will be done at a cost of US$35 million. Both projects are underway and substantial progress has been made. Currently, there is a bush-clearing activity and erection of towers on the transmission line project. For the power station upgrade, the contract is being negotiated with the preferred bidder and it will soon be signed. The transmission line project will be completed by early 2015 and the upgrade of the power station will be completed by the end of 2015.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the meeting that we had with ZESCO and officials from the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development, in the past, indicated that the Musonda Falls Station upgrading would be completed by 2014. However, the hon. Minister is now saying that it will be completed by 2015. Which one should we take? Why can it not be completed in 2014?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I did not attend that meeting. Therefore, I will have to make a follow up with whoever attended the meeting.

I thank you, Sir.

Matafwali (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, for some time, there has been talk of the solar farms in Luapula. When are they going to be implemented?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the question that Hon. Mbulakulima asked was about the connection of Luapula Province to the national grid or the improving of power supply to Luapula Province. Therefore, the question about solar farms is new.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mumba (Mambilima): Mr Speaker, why has the upgrading of Musonda Falls Station taken too long to be completed?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, sorry, I did not get the question.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Ask your question again, hon. Member.

Mr Mumba: Mr Speaker, why has the upgrading of Musonda Falls Station taken too long? We have been reading about it day in and day out.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, there is so much involved in the execution of such projects. For example, we have to conduct feasibility studies and also appoint a contractor. This is on schedule, as far as we are concerned. It is only Jesus Christ who turned …

Interruptions

Mr Zulu: … water into wine overnight.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, what is the ministry’s source of funding for this project?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I am not very sure, but I think ZESCO will get a loan from the World Bank. 

Laughter

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the question was on when the power supply to Luapula Province will be upgraded and I have answered that. The question that the hon. Member has asked is a new one. Could you kindly give me a chance to follow it up so that I give Hon. Mwila an answer?

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: It is accepted.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, Luapula Province is one of the strongest supporters of this Government. Why is the hon. Minister not giving very clear answers to the questions that are being raised concerning the province?

Mr Mbulakulima: Very good!

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I have given a very clear answer to the question. I have talked about the transmission line, the money that is going to be spent on the project and the project being underway. I have also stated that a lot of work has already been done. I do not know what else I must say.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, do indicate in time before I move on.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I am sorry about that. It seems Luapula Province, like the North-Western Province, has lagged behind in terms of connection to the national grid. What could be the reason for this?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, we, as the Patriotic Front (PF) only took over the Government two years ago. I think Hon. Pande should know better why these two provinces are still lagging behind in terms of power supply. Last week, I gave an answer that K120 billion is being spent on connecting the Western Province to the national electricity grid. Here, we are talking about Luapula Province and, again, a lot of work has already been done. So, as a Government, we have done a lot in the two years that we have been in power.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

KASANJIKU MINI-HYDROPOWER STATION

100. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)    when the development of the Kasanjiku Mini-Hydropower Station Project in the North-Western Province would commence;

(b)    who the promoters of the project were; and

    (c)    what the total cost of the project was.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the project is expected to commence in the fourth quarter of 2014. The promoters of the project are the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) in collaboration with the local community in Ntambu Chiefdom. The cost of the project is estimated at K52,516,000 or about US$10 dollars.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out where the money for financing this project is going to come from.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, REA is mostly funded by the Swedish Government. So, I am sure that the money will come from there, but I will have to follow that up.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister does not seem to be sure where the money to fund this project will come from. Is the hon. Minister sure whether this money is available for this project to take off in the last quarter of 2014?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the Government, through REA, advertised for a consultant to review the designs and supervise the Engineering, Procurement and Construction (EPC) Contractor. So, we are very sure that funds are available to undertake this project. If REA has already advertised for a consultant to undertake these works, then it means that the project will soon be undertaken.

I thank you, Sir.

UNZA RETIREES

101. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    how many retirees at the University of Zambia (UNZA) had not been paid their terminal benefits as of August, 2013;

(b)    how many retirees were still occupying institutional houses due to non-payment of their terminal benefits;

(c)    how much money in total was owed to all the retirees as of August, 2013;

(d)    what measures had been taken to pay off all the retirees; and

(e)    when the institution would be up to date in paying the retirees their terminal benefits.

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can there be order, please. For those consulting loudly, the hon. Minister’s response is being drowned.

 Mr Mabumba: … I wish to inform the House that as of August, 2013, 500 retirees had not been paid their terminal benefits.

 Sir, there are a total number of thirty-six houses that are currently occupied by retirees and the deceased estates awaiting payment of their terminal benefits. 

Mr Speaker, a total of K269,227,531 is owed to all the retirees, as of August, 2013. 

Sir, currently, UNZA receives an annual operational budgeted grant of more than K45 million from the Government for the purposes of dismantling the debt that UNZA owes to its retired staff. However, this grant is not adequate. Staff who retired as far back as 2005 are still on the waiting list to be paid.

Sir, as a step towards paying off all the retirees, UNZA Council is considering acquiring a loan facility with a local commercial bank. Repayment of this loan has been proposed to be serviced through an operational grant which has been provided for in the 2014 Budget for the House’s consideration. Some banks that have been approached on this scheme have agreed to this arrangement. Other consultations with the Ministry of Finance are yet to be concluded on this initiative. If this facility is authorised, retirees from 2005 to 2010 will be paid off.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his answer, stated that K45 million is made available, every year, to dismantle the debt owed to UNZA retirees. He has also mentioned that there is an intention to get a loan from the commercial banks. With regard to, especially the institutional houses, I would like to find out from him whether those particular individuals who are occupying these houses will be paid so that the accommodation for lecturers and other members of staff is addressed at the university. Will it be possible to specifically deal with this matter in good time because the retirees cannot wait for seven years to be paid.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, in the answer that I gave earlier on, I said that this is the reason that we are trying to get a loan from a local bank. The purpose for getting the loan is to pay the surviving retirees and the deceased estates their terminal benefits so that the houses that they are currently occupying could be allocated to the serving employees. I want to assure Hon. Mucheleka, the hon. Members of Parliament and the Zambian people that the Government is trying to source the money with a view to paying off the retirees so that the thirty-six houses can be availed to the current UNZA employees.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, the Government is talking of getting a loan from a local bank. Why has it not been budgeting for this facility from 2010? Why has it decided to get a loan from the bank now?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, it is unfortunate that my colleague is asking me that question because we are only two years in the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba: However, Sir, within that time, we have resolved to get a loan facility to enable UNZA to dismantle the debt that it owes to its staff. So, my colleague should actually commend us for coming up with this initiative.
 
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the K45 million that has been appropriated in the Budget every year for paying off retirees has not been adequate. 

Therefore, Mr Speaker, our last resort was to request the university, in consultation with the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, to get a loan to pay-off the debt. As a result, within two years, we have come up with an initiative which will allow the university to pay off the debt. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, I question the prudence of the hon. Minister’s statement that the Government will get a loan to pay-off the retirement packages. Can he clarify whether this is really a prudent way of handling issues.

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, this problem has lingered since 2005. If we use the usual methods, we will yield the same results. The usual method was negligible funding and grants to this institution. 

Sir, K45 million has not been enough to service the number of retirees. Therefore, we were required to think outside the box. Therefore, acquiring this loan is a desperate measure to bring this problem to a conclusion. However, it will need the guarantee of the Government, which we hope to get, and the goodwill of the management and council at the university so that the institution does not default on the loan repayment. It is very clear to us in the ministry that this will facilitate the final answer to the university’s plight. It is not the best of solutions but, under the circumstances, it will suffice. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, this problem was there in the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) Government. 

Mr Mulusa: Emowali mu MMD naiwe!

Laughter 

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, many employees retired in 2005. How have they been surviving?  Have they been getting their monthly salaries?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, this is a complex problem. One needs sufficient time to present it with a clear analysis. It has had terrible consequences on the retirees, no doubt, and, unfortunately for the institution, some of these retirees had to be retained on the pay-roll, pending payment of what is due to them. Thirty-six institutional houses, as you heard from the hon. Deputy Minister, are still being occupied by some of the retirees. The magnitude of the problem is quite big and we can only hope that this outside the box arrangement works satisfactorily. 

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister not agree with me that this problem would have been sorted out at the time the PF Government came into power had it given the issue the urgency it deserves rather than misplacing priorities by inducing by-elections and unnecessarily creating districts.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, when we use very simplistic language like that, I tend to wonder a little. 

Mr Speaker, we are presenting a problem whose origin is 2005. I did not want to give this as an excuse to attack anybody, being mindful of the fact that the Government is a continuous process. Mistakes were made and, probably, the discussion of these mistakes will be held between those that made them and their Lord. 

Laughter

Dr Phiri: For now, however, we are saying that we might have found a solution to this problem. Regardless of what happened in the past, celebrate with us if you think that this is a solution that the institution has been waiting for. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central):  Mr Speaker, I am a little shocked at the revelation that a loan will be obtained to liquidate the outstanding debt to the retirees.
 
Mr Lubinda: Question!

Mr Mulusa: The reason being that …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

What is your question?

Laughter 

Mr Mulusa: I am asking the question. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, you are not. You are making a statement. Ask your follow-up question.

Mr Mulusa: Sir, when an employee starts work, there are deductions from his/her monthly salary which go towards the retirement package to which the employer also makes a contribution. I would like to know, hon. Minister, what happened to the monies which, for thirty years or so, were being deducted from the employees’ salaries. Further, where will the money to liquidate the loan that is to be obtained come from? 

Mr Ng’onga: Ask yourself!

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I wish the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central had taken keen interest in this matter. The agony of the story that we are presenting is that deductions from employees’ salaries were not remitted for a very long period. If you ask me, maybe, there was no Government then.

Laughter

Dr Phiri: I do not know what happened. I was not there. So, I cannot be held accountable. 

However, Mr Speaker, with the hope that this loan facility is obtained and it is guaranteed that the Government will provide funds, it is feasible to repay the loan. In addition, it is obvious that extra monies will be raised as the retirees who have been retained on the payroll will then be paid their dues and vacate the houses they are occupying. Therefore, the loan will be repaid otherwise no bank would have agreed to this arrangement. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister  what he is doing this time around to make sure that remittances of the monies deducted from employees’ salaries are up to date. 

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, to cut a long story short, the university council and management have entered into contractual arrangements with the lecturers and other staff at the campus. They will be responsible for the gratuities rather than the excessive pensionable arrangements entered into by each employee through the union. This time around, they have learnt lessons and are making amends so that the university does not regress to its sad past.  

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, how long will it take the university to pay back the loan so that it is not overburdened by the interest from the bank?

Dr Phiri: Sir, I do not have those details at my fingertips. However, I have been given every assurance by the university council, management and the ministry’s technocrats that the loan is within the means of the university and can be repaid. If the hon. Member wants further details than what I have provided, I can avail them at a later time.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Minister, do you consider …

Mr Mulusa: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise a very important point of order. Sir, we have noticed that a piece of prime land belonging to UNZA and, therefore, the public is undergoing construction. The rumours doing the rounds are that there is a public-private partnership (PPP) of fifty years and that 5 per cent of the profits will be shared with the university. This raises a lot of concern. Is the hon. Minster of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order not to inform the nation what exactly surrounds the contract regarding the construction at that prime piece of land that belongs to the public?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Kindly file in a question of an urgent nature.

Mr Milambo: Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister consider getting a loan from the bank the best option? Does he not think that is borrowing for consumption?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I did indicate that this is a peculiar situation needing peculiar measures. We are convinced that this path will lead us to Canaan.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the deductions were reflected on the payslip, but the accountant did not remit to the pension’s board. May he just confirm to this House that …

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I apologise to my brother who is on the Floor asking a question. Is the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to tell us that he is leading this House and the nation to Canaan without explaining what that means? 

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: It is a well-known fact, in religious parlance, what ‘leading to Canaan’ means. I am sure the reverend knows much better than the hon. Minister.

May the hon. Member for Mkushi South continue.

Mr Chisanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether deductions were being made by the accountant, but not being remitted to the pension’s board. May he confirm to this House that the accountant was stealing from the workers.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm anything. I wish the hon. Member had laid his payslip on the Table for me to examine it. The institution, and not an individual accountant, failed to remit the funds. It is a colossal amount that has accumulated over the years and now we find ourselves in this predicament which we are trying to unbundle. The hon. Member is welcome to file in a question specifically requiring the figures.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister for Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education whether this situation of borrowing to pay back at commercial rates is peculiar only to UNZA and not the other two public universities.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the question was specifically on UNZA. Had it been on any other university, I would have provided the details.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, who is my brother, …

Mr Mwila: Aah! Since when?

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, yes, he is my brother. It is a well-known fact that running the UNZA Great East Road Campus has been a problem and this has been confirmed by the hon. Minister. Hon. Minister, in your capacity, do you think it is feasible for the Government to have this break out of universities, as alleged? Do you think it is workable?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Kindly address the Chair. In that situation, you would say, “Is the hon. Minister, so on and so forth.” However, if you speak to him directly, you will be inviting a response from him. 

May the hon. Minister respond to the question.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the genesis of the problem emanates from 1966 when the institution was born. Over the years, we thought it would only cater for 2,000 students and a few lecturers. The conditions of service were lucrative with each lecturer accumulating some six months’ salary per year, among other things. However, when we woke up, it was too late. The small elephant had over grown. These are lessons which the new institutions, which you say are mushrooming, have to learn. The mushrooming of these other universities should not be discouraged because it is necessary that they come into existence so that UNZA and other public universities are decongested and our children are availed with more opportunities. However, this should be done while being mindful of the fact that the conditions of service should be designed in a manner that is manageable. This is why most institutions have gone the contract way hoping that gratuities are easier to handle than the other facilities. However, we are yet to test that. I am hoping that this UNZA saga will not discourage the Government from establishing more universities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

LINKING MILENGE DISTRICT

102. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the Government would grade the Mungube Road which was the main link between Milenge District from the western to the eastern part of the Boma;

(b)    whether the Government had any plans of linking Milenge Boma to other parts of the district without passing through Mansa; and

(c)    if so, when such plans would be implemented.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications (Mr M. H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), intends to not only grade, but also upgrade the Mungulube Road (D100 Muwang’uni/Milumbi/ Mungulube Road) to bituminous standard in 2014 under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project.

Mr Speaker, looking at the number of roads that will be required to link Milenge Boma to other parts of the district, it will be necessary for the local authority to identify and prioritise the list of roads which should be submitted to the RDA Regional Office in Luapula Province. These will be considered in subsequent Road Sector Annual Work Plans.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left!

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, while we await the prioritisation of the roads by the local authority, only Mungulube (D100 Muwang’uni/Milumbi/Mungulube) Road shall be worked on.

Mr Speaker. I thank you.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister …

Ms Lubezhi:  On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, my apologies for interrupting the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central. Today, the nation is eager to listen to the debate on the Budget 2014 Motion through Parliament Radio. Is the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House in order to sit comfortably in here when Parliament Radio is off air?

Mr Deputy Speaker: The Chair is aware that there was a problem with the transmission of Parliament Radio and the technicians were working on it. According to the report I have now received, Parliament Radio is now on.

Can the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: I thought the hon. Member for Solwezi Central was on the Floor.

Laughter

Hon. Members: He forgot!

Mr Mulusa: My apologies, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I was recollecting my line of thought. Before the point of order was raised, I intended to ask the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications that if the criterion for prioritising roads is through submissions rather than a detailed economic study, does he not think that the route induces favouritism and corruption? This is unlike if we were prioritising roads informed by a detailed study on which roads would make economic or social sense.

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, what the hon. Member has said is exactly what we follow. If he got me clearly, the question was on when the Government would work on roads in the district to avoid passing through Mansa when going to other parts of the district. In fact, this situation of long routes is what is obtaining countrywide.

Mr Speaker, for example, if you want to go to Kasempa today, you will not go there directly without first getting to Chingola and passing through Solwezi. The Government is trying to work on avoiding long routes.

So, Sir, the question which the hon. Member had asked is exactly what we are looking at except that since it is a district, the best people who can help us on which roads are important are the local authority. This is why we always emphasise that the local authority must be aware of anything to do with district roads. This way, they can submit the roads to regional offices. However, when it comes to trunk roads, what the hon. Member has suggested is exactly what we do.

I thank you, Sir.

MILENGE TRADES TRAINING INSTITUTE

103. Mr Mbulakulima asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    whether the construction of the Milenge Trades Training Institute was on schedule;

(b)    if not, what measures the Government had taken to expedite the construction;

(c)    when the institute was expected to be opened; and

(d)    what the estimated cost of constructing the institute was.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the ministry commenced the construction of a trades training institute in Milenge District in 2011. The contract for the construction of the institute was awarded to Build Trust Construction Limited at the cost of K15,376,351.00. The project site was handed over to the contractor on 18th April, 2011.

Sir, as we stand today, the works on the project have stalled because the contractor breached the contractual obligation by failing to make significant progress on the project.

Mr Speaker, the ministry, in liaison with the Director of Buildings and the hon. Minister of Justice, has since terminated the contract for the construction of Milenge Trades Training Institute.

Mr Speaker, the contractor has appealed and what we are waiting for is the Ministry of Justice to conclude the appeal process. At that stage, the project will be re-tendered to a new contractor who will stipulate the completion period and only then will we know when the institute will be opened.

Sir, the estimated cost of constructing the institute once re-tendered is K20 million.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

NEWLY CREATED DISTRICTS

104. Mr Katuka asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    how many districts had been created from September, 2011 to August, 2013, province by province; and

(b)    whether the Government had carried out feasibility studies to ascertain the infrastructural needs and services required for the newly-created districts.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, the Government has since created twenty-nine districts during the period between September, 2011 and August, 2013, in accordance with the provisions of the Provincial and District Boundaries Act, Cap. 286 of the Laws of Zambia as tabulated below:

Province    No. of Districts    Year Created

Central    4    2012
Eastern    2    2012
Luapula    4    2012
Lusaka    4    2012
Muchinga    1    2012
Northern    1    2012
North-Western    1    2012
Southern     3    2012
Western    9    2012
Total    29

Sir, the Government has conducted a fast-track assessment on the key priority infrastructure needs and services in line with the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP). The ministry has since completed concept designs of civic centres, institutional houses, multi-purpose community halls, public libraries, guest houses and other public infrastructure facilities.

Furthermore, Sir, other infrastructure services will be undertaken in accordance with the SNDP.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister when the Government will create other districts in the North-Western Province apart from the ones that were announced by His Excellency the President in answer to the demands of the province.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, creating new districts is a prerogative of His Excellency the President. This Government is definitely certain that, through the Decentralisation Policy, more districts will be created in areas which need them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, now that this Government has created twenty-nine new districts in which it has failed to put up infrastructure, may I find out whether it still has plans to create more districts.

Interruptions

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, when an hon. Member stands on the Floor of this House and says that, “They have failed,” and yet he does not produce evidence of the failure, that is unfair.

Mr Sikazwe: Hear, hear!

Mr N. Banda: Sir, at the opening of this Parliament, His Excellency the President indicated that, out of the districts that have been created, eighteen are operational. Therefore, what failure is he talking about? The PF Government has only been in office for two years. Its intention is to reach out to as many people as it can through the Decentralisation Policy. Therefore, new districts are inevitable.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, what is the cost of creating a new district?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the cost of creating a new district depends on the size of the district being created. You may wish to know that the same building constructed in different localities costs different amounts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, creating new districts is not necessarily decentralisation. The creation of new districts could be liabilities for the Government. So, within what parameters is His Excellency the President creating these districts?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, decentralisation means taking the Government’s services closer to the people. The creation of new districts, which I mentioned is the prerogative of His Excellency the President, is a way in which the Decentralisation Policy is being implemented.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, we have been told that the creation of districts is a prerogative of His Excellency the President. Before he declares a district, information is gathered through the district and the ministry. I would like to find out if the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, this time, has made some recommendations for the creation of new districts regarding the activities in the North-Western Province.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing has made many recommendations in so many parts of the country. I may not be able to identify which area has been recommended for the creation of a new district.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

SHIMUMBI LOCAL COURT

105. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Justice when Shimumbi Local Court in Senior Chief Shimumbi’s area in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency would be rehabilitated.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that Shimumbi Local Court …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my extreme right! The hon. Minister is on the Floor.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Dr Simbyakula: … in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency is one of those courts that will be considered for rehabilitation in the 2015 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I am very surprised at the answer given by the hon. Minister. I thought he would indicate that the rehabilitation of Shimumbi Local Court will be considered in the 2014 Budget. Now, ….

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Member, what is your follow-up question?

Mr Mucheleka: Sir, why will the rehabilitation of Shimumbi Local Court be considered in the 2015 and not the 2014 Budget?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, there are so many local courts in this country that require rehabilitation and Shimumbi Local Court is one of them. There are a criteria used to determine the urgency of rehabilitation such as the catchment area, the distance that people have to cover to get to these courts as well as the degree of dilapidation. So, there is a long list and Shimumbi Local Court is just two years away on that list.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

KAOMA SECONDARY SCHOOL

106. Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when infrastructure at Kaoma Secondary School, including teachers’ houses, would be rehabilitated;

(b)    when the sewer line at the school would be improved;

(c)    when the school would be provided with desks, beds and mattresses; and 

(d)    when the roof of the school laboratory would be repaired.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the ministry will rehabilitate Kaoma Secondary School, including teachers’ houses and the sewer line at the school, when funds are available. Our priority for 2013 is to rehabilitate Sesheke Secondary School. So, that is where the money allocated in the 2013 Budget is going. I think, Kaoma Secondary School will be considered as and when the funds become available.

Sir, the provision of desks, beds and mattresses is one of the activities that have been planned for 2013. As soon as the money is availed to the ministry, we will buy some desks from which Kaoma Secondary School will benefit.

Mr Speaker, the roof of the laboratory will also be repaired when funds are made available. The ministry allocated K485,860 to the Western Province for the rehabilitation of blown-off roofs in the 2012/2013 Infrastructure Development Plan. Therefore, this means that the rehabilitation will be undertaken once the funds have been released.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members on my left, please, give the hon. Member a chance to ask a follow-up question without interruptions.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm if the PF Government has neglected Kaoma High School.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Kaoma Central Constituency is aware that the PF Government has not neglected any infrastructure in this country. I do not want to keep repeating myself. The PF is just two years in the Government and as far as I am concerned, it is trying its level best to rehabilitate the infrastructure based on the availability of the funds allocated in the Budget. In fact, compared to Mumbwa High School, Kaoma Secondary School is better off. So, we will rehabilitate Kaoma Secondary School once the funds have been made available. The laboratory is also going to be attended to once the money is released this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, while we appreciate the creation of new districts and the construction of new infrastructure, does that Government, …

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: … have any deliberate plans to rehabilitate all the old institutions such as Kalabo, Kaoma and Sesheke high schools, which are as old as Zambia itself?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, those plans are there, and just to demonstrate this, let me state that a comprehensive rehabilitation of a secondary school, as was spent on  Chama Secondary School, costs almost K23 million. At the moment, rehabilitating a fully operational boarding secondary school would cost around K35 million.

Mr Speaker, when you look at the number of boarding secondary schools in need of rehabilitation, it is not possible to undertake the rehabilitation exercise in one year. Moreover, hon. Members of Parliament are the ones who appropriate money to the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. As a committed Government, we have said − and I want to repeat − that the rehabilitation of secondary schools and other institutions is going to be done in phases. As for the Western Province, we are going to invest in the rehabilitation of Sesheke Secondary School in 2013. The Government has a plan.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, in which phase is Mumbwa Secondary School going to be rehabilitated?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: The hon. Minister’s answer is not very clear. I am very excited because ordinarily that school should have been closed.

Mr Deputy Speaker: This gives me the opportunity to remind the Executive that when you go beyond what you are expected to answer, you open a Pandora’s Box. Hon. Minister, you mentioned that Mumbwa Secondary School was worse than another school.

Laughter

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, in fact, Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo is aware that I once visited this secondary school at night. That just demonstrates our commitment to that school. Mumbwa Secondary School, which is in Central Province, has also been planned for rehabilitation in 2013 and we are just waiting for the release of funds to undertake this project.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, through …

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Chisanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

There are two people raising points of order. Now, I do not know which one to start with. Okay, the hon. Member for Siavonga may go first.

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise this point of order I feel compelled to do. Is the hon. Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to mislead this House and the nation at large that hon. Members of Parliament are responsible for allocating money in the Budget? Some of us have just seen the Yellow Book today and we have had no input whatsoever in the figures that are contained therein. I seek your ruling, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: My ruling is that I think what the hon. Deputy Minister meant is that the Budget is approved by this House.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, going by the paltry allocation to the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in the Budget, would it not be prudent for the ministry, before embarking on new projects such as Paul Mushindo University, …

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: … to complete the rehabilitation of schools?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, Paul Mushindo University is a different project.

Laughter

Mr Mabumba: I think the hon. Member should have cited a better example. This is why we have said that the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is going to reduce on infrastructure activities so that some projects like completion of secondary schools and other activities could be accommodated in the 2014 Budget.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

BEDDINGS SUPPLY TO RURAL HEALTH CENTRES

107. Mr Antonio asked the Minister of Health when the Government would supply beddings to the following rural health centres:

(a)    Nkeyema;

(b)    Njonjolo;

(c)    Shimano;

(d)    Namilangi;

(e)    Chitwa;

(f)    Kalumwange; and

(g)    Lunyati.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Speaker, in 2012, the Government procured linen which was distributed to all provincial health offices in early 2013. 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I am not sure whether the hon. Member for Kaoma Central is getting his answer because there is loud consultation on my left. Please, can we consult quietly so that we can hear the hon. Minister’s response.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the following were the beddings supply sent to the Provincial Health Office in Mongu:

Type of Bed Supply    Quantity

Pillows    720
Mattresses    400
Bed sheets (pair)    1200
Pillow cases    1200
Cotton cellular blankets (adults’)    400
Cotton cellular blankets (children’s)    160
Draw sheets    480
Draw mackintosh    480
Shrounds (mortuary gowns)-adults    576
Shrounds (mortuary gowns)-paediatric    624
Shrounds (mortuary gowns)-neonatal    240

Mr Speaker, the beddings supply were distributed to Kaoma District Hospital and Mangango and Luampa mission hospitals. The Government will soon procure beddings and other materials from which the mentioned rural health centres will benefit.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, when will these areas receive their beddings?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the procurement will be done soon. Once this is done, the beddings will be distributed. The tendering process is almost complete.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Sir, can the hon. Minister indicate whether his ministry has a replenishment policy for consumable items such as the ones that he narrated so that the period between each consecutive supply is clear to us who have hospitals and health centres in our constituencies.

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, the plan for replenishment is embedded in the operations of the hospitals. In fact, each provincial health office is required to use part of its grant to buy linen.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

_____________ 

MOTIONS

BUDGET 2014

(Debate resumed)

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for this opportunity given to me to render my support to the Budget Motion moved by the Minister of Finance, Hon. Alexander B. Chikwanda, MP.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Sir, on Friday, this House was honoured to listen to the 2014 Budget Presentation by the hon. Minister of Finance. The theme of the Budget was “Moving Forward to Consolidate Growth and Social Justice in Peace and Unity.” This is an appropriate theme in recognition of the need to accelerate the Poverty Reduction Strategy. 

Mr Speaker, allow me to commend the hon. Minister of Finance, his management team and staff at the ministry for the efficiency they have demonstrated in preparing the National Budget which was presented to the nation, through this august House, on Friday, 11th October, 2013. Let me now look at some of the specific sectors of the economy and how they have been provided for under the 2014 Budget.

Agriculture

 Mr Speaker, the Government’s commitment to agriculture development cannot be questioned.

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

Mr Ng’onga: Despite the reduction in the maize output in 2013, due to the outbreak of the army worms and the lower than normal rainfall that we received in the southern half of the country and the reduction in cotton production due to poor pricing, crops like wheat, soya beans, tobacco and sunflower registered  higher production levels. 

Mr Speaker, the livestock sector, also continued to grow in 2013 with cattle numbers increasing by 10 per cent to almost four million and the number of poultry increasing by 18 per cent to over 92 million. I implore the hon. Minister to continue with funding towards the rehabilitation of the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) so that most of the fertiliser that is required by this nation is produced locally. This will enable early input supply and also improve job creation, especially in Kafue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Further, Mr Speaker, I welcome the steps taken by the Government to continue with the construction of the multi-purpose dams and irrigation schemes in order to limit dependence on rain-fed agriculture. 

Mr Speaker, on forestry, as announced by the hon. Minister of Finance, the Government has established eleven large-scale forestry nurseries across the country, each raising 1.5 million seedlings per year. These nurseries will not only contribute to the creation of about 200,000 jobs over the next five years, but will also complement efforts at global level to mitigate the effects of climate change. The creation of new job opportunities in the sector will also help in poverty reduction.

Education Sector

 Mr Speaker, it is also gratifying that the hon. Minister of Finance announced that the Government will increase the number of students accessing quality and affordable university and college education by undertaking various interventions, among them the rehabilitation and construction of student accommodation, lecture rooms and libraries at the University of Zambia (UNZA), Copperbelt University (CBU) and Mulungushi University. 

Sir, the Government should also be commended for continuing with the development of infrastructure at Chalimbana and Palabana universities in Lusaka, Paul Mushindo and Robert Makasa universities in Muchinga Province, Mukuba University on the Copperbelt and Kwame Nkrumah University in Central Province. 

In addition, Sir, the Government should be congratulated for its intention to construct Luapula University in Luapula Province ...

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: … and King Lewanika University in the Western Province. In addition, three new teachers’ training colleges in the Eastern, Western and North-Western provinces and five trades training institutes at various locations across the country will also be constructed. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: In this regard, Sir, I urge all hon. Members of Parliament to support the budget estimates not only for the education sector, but also the Budget in its entirety …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: … in order to assist the Government’s progressive intention to increase the number of students accessing quality and affordable university and college education.

Health Sector

Mr Speaker, the Government remains committed to bringing affordable and quality health care as close to the Zambian people as possible. This commitment is evidenced by the establishment of two regional depots in Choma and Chipata. This is meant to decentralise storage and distribution of medical drugs and supplies in order to ensure that their availability to all Zambians is achieved.

Sir, let me further note that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has also set aside adequate resources in the 2014 Budget for the procurement of specialised medical equipment to ensure non-interruption of services and reduce the number of referrals abroad. The construction of 650 health posts will also help a lot in realising this goal. 

Tourism Sector

 Mr Speaker, allow me to remind the House that, this year, Zambia successfully co-hosted the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) 20th General Assembly which significantly raised Zambia’s international profile as a world class tourism destination. In this regard, the Government intends to build on this profile by enhancing growth and competitiveness in the tourism sector. This is why the Government’s target for the promotion of product diversification and further investment in tourism infrastructure should be supported. 

Let me, therefore, Sir, reiterate the PF Government’s appeal to hon. Members on your left to support this Government’s effort aimed at diversifying the economy. Tourism is one of the key sectors that can be diversified by improving accessibility to our national parks and, as leaders, we have a duty to ensure that we sensitise the people we represent about the importance of preserving heritage sites and natural attractions.

Infrastructure Development 

Mr Speaker, infrastructure development has been widely recognised as a catalyst for economic growth in Africa. In Zambia, the PF Administration has put in place an ambitious infrastructure development programme to improve energy, education, health, transport, and communication infrastructure. The development of transport infrastructure includes the Pave Zambia 2,000 km and the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project programmes. The trickle-down effect of these programmes is massive as it is expected that thousands of jobs will be created throughout the country.

Mr Speaker, the implementation of development programmes of such magnitude can be very challenging in terms of resource mobilisation and supervision and, therefore, cannot be left to the Government alone. All well-meaning Zambians in various capacities should assist the Government to monitor these development projects. With regard to hon. Members of Parliament, especially those from rural constituencies, let us work together with this Government so that we can set out to inspect the road works, the hospitals, the schools and the bridges which are under construction.

Social Protection

Mr Speaker, the PF Government remains committed to implementing a Pro-poor Development Policy aimed at reducing the poverty levels which are estimated at 42 per cent. One such policy is the Cash Transfer Scheme under the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. As opposed to giving consumption subsidies in which the rich people also benefit, the Cash Transfer Scheme contributes to fighting poverty by directly giving support to the vulnerable and poor in our society. It is, therefore, befitting that our friends in the Opposition appreciate the efforts being made by this PF Administration … 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Ng’onga: … because of its capability …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: … to target interventions at deserving citizens as opposed to the previous Government which waited for the trickle-down effect.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to echo the hon. Minister of Finance’s words which read as follows:

“It is only appropriate to conclude my address by paying tribute to our hardworking President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, for the inspiring leadership and vision he has provided since the inception of his administration. Under the leadership of this great patriot, who is focused, has undivided loyalty and love for his people, the nation’s development agenda has moved forward at a robust pace. We all have a duty to join hands with him to intensify our crusade against poverty. Our divergent views should never be a cause for drifting from our common purpose of moving the country forward and creating a society premised on social justice and prosperity for all.”

Mr Speaker, I beg to support the Motion.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to second the proposal by the hon. Member for Kaputa on the Motion of Supply moved by the hon. Minister of Finance on Friday, 11th October, 2013.

Mr Speaker, I take note that this year’s cover …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mufalali: ... of the Budget Speech is very controversial in the sense that, in the past twenty-two years, no ruling party has brought its party regalia into Parliament except for the PF Government.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, when you look at the cover, you will see the regalia of the PF …

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, it is here.

Hon. Government Members: Where?

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, it is on the back cover of the Budget Speech. There is a man in PF regalia walking with a dog, women in the PF regalia waiting by some river and so on and so forth.

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, that is not supposed to be the case. 

Mr Speaker, the theme for this year’s Budget is “Moving forward to Consolidate Growth and Social Justice in Peace and Unity.” The theme is hair-raising. To me, economic growth, social justice, peace and unity are not translated into action when sharing the country’s wealth and resources. 

Mr Speaker, while in Shang’ombo early this year, His Excellency the President told the nation that development would only go to that area if the people voted for him and his party. This is a total contradiction of the democratic principles on which this country was founded in 1991. What social justice or growth in peace and unity can we talk about if His Excellency the President, while in Mitete in Lukulu West, likened a classroom at Muyondoti Basic School to a piggery where he comes from, and yet he has not done anything about the desperate situation he saw?

Mr Speaker, growth cannot take place in an environment that is so hostile to those who hold divergent views evidenced by their are arrests at any given time at the pleasure of a sitting President who orders, by the power of the pen, to have those he feels insecure about arrested.

Mr Muntanga: Ehe!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I can cite the case of Ngambela Wainyaye Sinyinda, Hakainde Hichilema and the cheering youth of Senanga, Sesheke, Kalabo, Mongu and many others over the Barotseland issue.

Mr Speaker, the failure to release the report of the Commissions of Inquiry on the Barotseland issue, which was headed by Dr Roger Chongwe, SC., shows a lack of accountability and disunity. The failure to be realistic has always proved disastrous to any nation. What consolidated growth can there be in the presence of so much animosity, intimidation and hate, as exhibited under the PF, directed towards other political parties like the United Party for National Development (UPND)?

Mr Speaker, the nullification of seats by the PF Government is unprecedented and hypocritical because we have seen how it spends during by-elections as the party in Government and, indeed, as individual members. The fact that within the PF, some members have confirmed and confessed that there is, indeed, corruption among them is a source of worry.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the scheme of nullifying seats is a ploy meant to do away with multi-party democracy. The fact that seats for the PF were not challenged in the courts of law does not mean that there was no corruption practised by the PF candidates.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, good governance entails doing the right thing and being fair and just. We saw the incarceration of the UPND hon. Members of Parliament and their president, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, in Livingstone during the by-election. That cannot constitute consolidated growth. Good governance is paramount in all areas of human endeavour if we really have to move forward …

Mr Sichinga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I apologise to the House for interrupting that secondment. Is the speaker on the Floor of the House in order to imply that the PF is nullifying seats …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Sichinga: … when, in fact, we all know how the issues of petitioned seats are handled? I would like guidance from the Chairperson on whether he is in order to say so.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think that we are debating and time will come when you will be able to respond to issues like that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You may continue, Hon. Mufalali.

Mr Mufalali: ... to consolidate growth and social justice in peace and unity. I am aware that some of the terminologies in modern democracy are alien to many of the old folks.

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the term ‘good governance’ is less than eighteen years old and does not form part of the vocabulary of the old folks. Hence, when one talks about good governance, they resist with a lot of anger and disapproval. When you talk about interviewing their hon. Ministers over corruption allegations, they will ask you to seek authorisation before you take any action.

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, one cannot have a forward movement to consolidated growth and social justice if the trajectory of distributing the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is based on patronage, tribal, party and regional lines, as evidenced by the list that came from the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, that is a sham and a shame. I am aware that the PF does not see statistics as an important component in making projections, planning and, indeed, understanding the environment in which it operates. 

Mr Speaker, in the 2012 Budget, the hon. Minister had this to say, “Sir, we are not a Government that basks in empty glory of statistic euphoria, but one that seeks transformational shift in society to make it more just and equitable.” He repeated that statement in part four of his speech in 2013. Surprisingly, the hon. Minister is mute this time around, maybe, because he is aware that his statistics have not proved anything. He has resorted to frowning at his own statistics.

Interruptions

Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to rise on this very serious point of order. I wish to tender my apology to my brother, who was on the Floor, for interrupting his debate. The rules of this House are straightforward. They state that an hon. Member of Parliament, who is a Back Bencher, cannot read a speech while on the Floor.

Interruptions

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, only hon. Ministers are allowed to do that. Therefore, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Senanga in order to continue reading a speech instead of debating from memory? I need your serious ruling. 

Hon. Opposition Members: He is seconding!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think the hon. Minister raising that point of order knows that the hon. Member on the Floor is seconding the Motion.

Hon. Government Members: What about Mrs Mazoka?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of clarification, I am told that the hon. Member is actually not seconding the Motion. My ruling on that point of order is that, as you debate, take that point of order into account.

You may continue.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I thank you. I have the capacity to carry on without looking at the document.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I was saying that we saw the statistics that came in 2012 and 2013, which the hon. Minister indicated that the PF Government had nothing to do with, but it was going to do things in a way that the effects could be felt from the grassroots. However, this is to the contrary. The statistics of the PF Government are dismal. It failed to give us the statistics on how it has performed. The President’s Speech and the Budget Speech for 2014 have remained mute on this.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

This is the fourth if not the third point of order on the person debating. 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is the Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, Hon. Kapata, in order to throw a scarf over her shoulders, making it difficult to tell her apart from a likishi?  

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Well, I do not see anything objectionable in that kind of dress, especially that Hon. Muntanga is able to identify that the hon. Member is Hon. Jean Kapata. I am sure that is fine. This is the last point of order on the person debating. I hope you have understood. I am not allowing anymore points of order on the person debating.

Please, continue.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the 2014 Budget …

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: … has seen a reduction in terms of domestic revenue. In 2012, it was at 72.1 per cent to 76.8 per cent, but it is now at 69.2 per cent in 2014, under the PF Government. This is a clear indication that there is no growth in the economy. The Government has actually failed us on that score.

Sir, we have also seen the collapse of financial management that has resulted in the 8.5 per cent deficit which has been mentioned. This is also an indication that the financial management system, under the PF, is seriously collapsing. I am going to quote the words of one former hon. Minister of Finance who said in this House that, “If those friends of ours were sitting on this side (Government), this economy was going to collapse.” Now I agree with that former hon. Minister.

Mr Speaker, we have actually seen that the PF Government has resorted to borrowing. Within two years of being in power, it has gone over US$1 billion in borrowing and plans to borrow US$2 billion next year. 

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, this will have a serious effect on the generations that are yet to come. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the Government is deferring almost everything. Come to pensions and wages, they have been deferred. Come to retirement age, the intention of the Government is to defer it too. In short, the Government is trying to do away with any responsibilities of looking after the nation. When this Government is gone, all it will do is leave a burden for us because we are getting into Government.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the amounts of money that the Government has borrowed, so far, has come to US$3.1 billion. We are headed almost to US$7 billion. This is unprecedented from the post Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Initiative time. However, we are getting back to that stage.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I will leave the issue of indebtedness and go straight to job creation.

Sir, the PF Government has repeated the statement which it made in the 2013 Budget. It promised us 200,000 jobs and this promise has been made, again, in 2014. When you compute, 200,000 jobs must produce 17,000 jobs in a year. That is not a joke. I, therefore, wonder how 17,000 jobs will be created when the recruitment exercise has been frozen and inflation will increase very soon because of wage the freeze. The Government is not very sure how it will slow the inflation rate in this country.

Sir, I wonder how the Government can tell us that it will create 200,000 jobs when the employment opportunities created are 60,000. These jobs are a combination of good jobs and casual workforce. What will change, next year, for the Government to create more jobs then, added to that the fact the recruitment exercise has been frozen?

Mr Speaker, let me come to the issue of agriculture.

Ms Lubezhi: Ehe!

Laugher

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, not much is reflected about agriculture in this Budget. What will be done about agriculture and how much it will contribute to next year’s Budget has not been indicated. 

Sir, one thing I realise is that the allocation to the agricultural sector of 7.2 per cent is short of the Maputo Declaration. Therefore, I want to appeal to the PF Government that we cannot do without agriculture. We just have to do something about it and ensure that it contributes something to the gross domestic product (GDP). Failure to do that, we will not go anywhere. In this House, I am fortunate to sit next to an hon. Member of Parliament whose constituency’s GDP per capita income is the highest, and that is Namwala …

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: … and, maybe, Bweengwa.

Mr Hamududu: Oh, yes!

Interruptions 

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, there are priorities which we need to follow or commit ourselves to if we have to look at agriculture. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock should not go into Namwala, a territory he knows ranching is its core business, to donate reconditioned tractors. That is failure to understand the core business of a particular place.

Mrs Kawandami: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

I just want to make it clear that I cannot go back on my ruling. I indicated earlier that I will not allow anymore points of order on the person speaking.

Please, continue.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear! Reconditioned tractor!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, we have to put our priorities straight for us to know what we are doing. In this House, I have heard the Government telling us that it is going to restock in areas where there have never been animals. How do you restock in such a territory? You are not restocking, but teaching people of that particular area how to ranch.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: So, Mr Speaker, their priorities, as a Government, are misplaced. They are cooking the pot upside down and you cannot cook it like that.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, before I come to education, one thing I noted in the 2014 Budget was the K500 million that was allocated to the Farmers Input Support Programme (FISP). This amount has remained constant, and yet we know the importance of this programme. Therefore, it leaves much to be desired to realise that the hon. Minister has allocated K500 million, whose results were chaotic last year, and certainly whose effects of the allocation for 2014 will also be chaotic because nothing has changed in this area. 

Mr Speaker, in education, we have been told that fifty-three secondary schools will be constructed, but we have not been told how they will be distributed. The Government needs to tell us how these schools, which have been talked about in the 2014 Budget, will be distributed and which areas will be prioritised. We want to see those fifty-three secondary schools constructed in rural areas and not here in urban areas.

Sir, the Government talked about constructing 1,300 km of gravel road. However, it has not told us specifically where those roads will be constructed. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Donchi Kubeba!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, if we have to improve the livelihood of people and reduce poverty in areas where it is rife, we need to know where the 1,300 km of gravel roads will be constructed. Failure to do so would be tantamount to singing the same old song that we have heard in this House in Budgets which have come and gone without anything being done.

Mr Speaker, on water and sanitation, the Government has said that it will sink boreholes. We want to also know where these 2,000 boreholes are going to be sunk. Our cry is to see equal distribution of these resources. What we have seen in the country is a situation where much of the resources are going in one direction. Now, we hear that posters have been erected in certain towns welcoming people to the birth place or province of so and so …

Mr Livune: Shame!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, we do not want that. We want an equal distribution of resources because we are tired of the status quo. 

Mr Speaker, the Government has talked about working on roads and even included Kalabo/Mongu Road …

Ms Lubezhi: Which has been there.

Mr Mufalali: ... which is a project that was started by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). 

Sir, we want to see roads that will serve us properly in the Western Province. Luampa/Machile/Sesheke Road has been on the papers, but it has not yet been worked on. We want to see the Lukulu Road constructed, BUT nothing has been said about the Watopa/Lukulu/Katunda Road. 

Mr Speaker, in the Western Province, we seem to only have roads that connect provincial headquarters to district headquarters and head out of the province. We want to see roads that will move from district to district and go as far as the countryside.

Sir, the Government wants to celebrate fifty years of Independence. What will we be celebrating when we have no roads or schools? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, our teachers walk about 70 km when we have been independent for fifty years, and yet we are expected to celebrate the golden jubilee. We will not celebrate the golden jubilee because we have not seen anything we have yielded from being independent. We want to see development in the Western Province. We need an equal share of what the Government is giving out to the rest of the country rather than just glossing over and telling us that there will be a Kalabo/Mongu Road to be constructed. What about the road from Katunda to Watopa? What about the Luampa/ Machile/Sesheke Road? What about the road cutting through Senanga East to Kaoma? What about the road from Namushakendi to the inner part of Mongu District.

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, what about the road from Limulunga connecting to Lukulu? The Government has not made mention of these things. It is for this reason that we are worried about the glossing over of things, and yet so many roads are earmarked for construction in Muchinga. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, that is not fair. We want to see an equal distribution of these resources otherwise we will give you problems.

Hon. Opposition Member: Paul Mushindo Road.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, …

Ms Lubezhi: Back to agriculture.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, finally, if we have to move in unity, we have no option, but to ensure that we equally distribute the resources that this country is endowed with. What we have seen is the PF way of doing things. Let me reiterate that, as leaders, standing before the electorate to tell them that development will not be taken to certain areas because they did not vote for some leaders is not the way to go because this is not a one party State. We moved to be a multi-party State and we will move as such. No party will stop us because we are more than ready to meet and crush it. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, this country will remain a multi-party State. It is on that bedrock of freedom that it was built. It is not built on a one party state.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, for the first time after twenty-two years, we have seen pictures on the cover of the Budget Speech of political party cadres being depicted as tourists?

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, you can see that our friends have failed in tourism from the picture that is depicting tourism on the Budget Speech. The picture is indicating people viewing game in small cars. You do not view animals in small cars. You view them in land cruisers that are made for the purpose of withstanding tough terrain. On the cover of the Budget Speech, maize is being grown next to vegetables and being watered by a hose pipe. That is the picture the Government has given us.

Laughter 

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, this shows us that the Government does not understand anything when it comes to agriculture.

Ms Lubezhi: It has collapsed.

Mr Mufalali: The agricultural sector has collapsed and we need the Government to know this. 

With these few words, I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, I want to congratulate Zambia on narrowly losing to Brazil on an away game …

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Let me reiterate that we should give each other a chance to debate so that we can follow the arguments. These points of order have a tendency of distracting attention. I will allow you that point of order, but if they exceed beyond a certain limit, I will stop allowing them. 

You have your point of order.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for this chance to raise a point of order and I apologise to Hon. Dr Kaingu for the disturbance.

Mr Speaker, today’s main headline in the Times of Zambia newspaper is “Shoprite workers strike”. Is the Government in order to let institutions free without implementing the minimum wage after having introduced it a long time ago? 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Under normal circumstances, I would have asked for a ministerial statement, but in view of the fact that we have just started debating the Budget, I do not want to go that route. At an appropriate time, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House can say something tomorrow. I am not ordering you to make a ministerial statement. I am saying you can say something tomorrow should an opportunity present itself.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, my debate will not be a personal attack on the man I respect very much, the hon. Minister of Finance. Everything I will say will be directed at the Budget and the hon. Minister.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, as I stand here, my heart bleeds …

Hon. Government Members: Why!

Dr Kaingu: … because we have, yet again, lost two seats through the invisible hand of a predator.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, my role is not to antogonise those who believe that they know, but to add value to those who believe that they do not know and to euphemistically integrate and engage with those who actually know. 

Interruptions 

Dr Kaingu: Sir, this Budget Speech is the most illusionary and deceitful piece of economic document that I have ever read. 

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the clever man who wrote this Budget Speech has really managed to hoodwink some economists into believing that it is the best document that has ever been written. Many economists have tried to analyse this Budget in a traditional way but, this afternoon, I will attempt to elucidate this Budget from an economic strategy point of view. 

Sir, first of all, what is a strategy? There are so many definitions, but for the purpose of this debate, a strategy is a master plan or a game plan. The strategy is driven by objectives that are supported by faith and hope. All these are important elements of a vision. What vision do we really see in this Budget? I have said that a strategy is a master plan. However, what is the master planner trying to show us? A vision is a perception of how it will be when we get to 2014. The faith that I am talking about is the visualisation that when we get there, surely, things will be alright. Hope is the confidence that we derive from the performance of this Government. What vision is this 2014 Budget showing us? It is showing us that Zambia will actually be heavily indebted. 

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, it shows us that the private sector will be crowded by the GDP. It shows that there will be unemployment. The Government has admitted that, for two years, it will not employ. This vision shows us that there will be a wage freeze and that this economy, in 2014, will be heavily geared. The word, “geared” means indebted. It also shows that there will be a high wage bill. The Government will not have money for investment, as you can see that 52 per cent of the Budget will be going to wages. The civil servants will not be operating because there will be no money. It shows that we will have a high sovereign debt. It also shows that, before 2016, there will be a price increment on energy, especially fuel. 

Mr Speaker, what are the objectives of the economic strategy that we are talking about? The master planner thinks that this Budget can grow the economy. The master planner thinks that, with this Budget, he can create jobs. He also thinks that, with his budget, he can stabilise inflation and equitably distribute the income across the country.

Sir, let me give some sort of economic analysis for this strategy. The ace for the PF Government is the strength drawn from the strong economic foundation built by the MMD and left for it. What is the PF’s weakness? It is its perception that Zambians are gullible and that they can listen and believe everything that it says. What are the PF’s opportunities? It has two opportunities and these are to re-design this Budget, prioritise, re-allocate resources fairly and present a more realistic Budget to this country. The other one is to quit and run.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, those are the only two choices you have.

Laughter

The Deputy Speaker: Order! Can I remind the hon. Member on the Floor to address the Government through the Chair. 

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, they have two opportunities that I have already mentioned.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, what are the PF Government’s threats? The people will be discontented by 2014. There will be civil strife by 2016. 

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Sir, when I was still young, I read a small book entitled, “You will Remember Me.”

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the first objective is to create economic growth with this Budget. Is it possible to move into 2014 with 8.5 per cent deficit? Is it possible to have an external debt of 12 per cent? 

Mr Speaker, is it possible to grow the economy with 13 per cent internal borrowing? Is it possible to grow the economy when the Government wants to borrow 25 per cent from the GDP in 2014? 

Mr Speaker, it is not possible because the Government, as I said, will be crowding out the private sector which grows the economy. The private sector has to borrow money from the commercial banks, but if this money is borrowed by the Government, through Government bonds and other securities like the Treasury Bills, then, there will be no money for the private sector to borrow. This will mean that if the private sector finds money to borrow, the interest rate will be very high.

Mr Speaker, you will remember me.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, can the economy grow when the wage bill will be at 52 per cent? Even the Government itself will not have money to invest and use for its operations. Remember that there are works in progress which were left by the MMD.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, there is the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road, Pave Zambia 2,000 km projects, establishment of thirty districts and two provincial headquarters, construction of fifty-three secondary schools, ubiquitous universities and stadia, but where will the Government get the money to implement these projects? These activities are not prioritised in the Budget.

Mr Speaker, if you intend to use 48 per cent for investment, this will mean that the civil servants will not have money to carry out their operations. It will mean that one will have to pick up a policeman or woman, when their services are required, in his/her own vehicle because the policeman or woman will not have fuel to get to a crime scene. It will also mean that when one gets sick, he/she will have to buy essential drugs and go to a doctor or nurse to be injected. So, where will the Government find the money to grow the economy? It could be said that the Government is munching much more than it can chew. Let me, again, render advice that you will remember me.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, this Government …

Mr Sikazwe: Wind up.

Dr Kaingu: I still have enough time. Can somebody lend me an extra twenty-six minutes, please?

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the objective of this Government is to create jobs. However, how will it do that when it is clear that it will consume more than 70 per cent of the GDP in 2014 and crowd the private sector? There will be no money for the private sector to borrow because it will only have about 30 per cent of the GDP.

Mr Speaker, so, the vision for 2015 is actually a nightmare. It is a nightmare for the youths who are in colleges, those leaving school and those on the streets because for, two years, the Zambia Air Force, Zambia Army, Zambia Police Force and Zambia National Service will not recruit. So, how is the Government going to create jobs when it is very clear that it will not be recruiting workers? It is an illusion to think that jobs can be created with this Budget.

Sir, even when you look at the factors of production and the mines that were supposed to help in job creation, you will notice that the mines are going into automation. His Honour the Vice-President admitted that the mines are no longer employing because they are replacing the human resource with machinery. So, how is the Government going to create these jobs? It will be very difficult to do so.  Bapongoshi will have to come to me …

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Can you, please, use the appropriate language. What does bapongoshi mean?

Dr Kaingu: Sir, it means my in-law.

Sir, will this Budget stabilise the prices and mark time inflation as has been suggested? It will not do that. This is because what we have seen from the time that subsides on fuel and maize were removed is that the prices of goods and services have gone up. Fuel is the blood that drives all economies. When subsides were removed, the prices of goods and services went up. Will the Government really mark time? It is not possible. It means that there is something wrong with the data that is being collected by the Central Statistical Office (CSO).

Hon. Opposition Member: And the leadership.

Dr Kaingu: Sir, when I went to visit my uncle in Mandevu, I found that people put money together in order to afford a bag of mealie-meal, which they later share. This is what we call Pamela. The Pamela syndrome has come back.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, in case you do not know, this is what is happening in reality. Let me, again, say that you will remember me.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, in the last two minutes that I have, I want to talk about the UNWTO. Originally, the hosting of the UNWTO was awarded to Zambia alone and not in collaboration with Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe was brought in because Zambia lacked the capacity to host this event.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, if the Government thinks that by painting old buildings and rehabilitating roads, it has done much, let me tell it that a lot needs to be done in the tourism sector. In any case, I am grounded in this field and I will help the Government when we discuss the Ministry of Tourism and Art.

Sir, however, the question that begs an answer is: How much money did we spend on this conference?

Mr Livune: Aah, millions. 

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance must be interested in the aspect of the revenue that was realised from hosting the conference. How much revenue was realised? Much as we are so proud about having clean streets, which will soon be dirty, in Livingstone, we want to know whether the 4,000 tourists that came to Zambia were fed for free. I can assure you that the number is even bigger than the Israelites who were fed with free manna.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, how can the Government tell us about the successes that it has scored by holding the UNWTO Conference without telling us the revenue that was collected? There are so many areas where we could have made our money such as at the airport, all the entry points and through the selling of curios and handicrafts. However, what we are being told is that the conference was successful just because the hon. Minister spent three months in Livingstone preparing for it. Is that the success being talked about?

Mr Nkombo interjected.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, most of the money that was intended for the conference was eaten by the birds anyway.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I wish I had more time, but I have to cut my debate short. However, I will debate again when the time for debating on policy statements comes.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate. I would like take Hon. Dr Kaingu’s words as my own. 

Mr Speaker, I have great respect for my uncle, the hon. Minister of Finance. Therefore, even when I hit too hard, he must understand that the country comes first. 

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I have two budget speeches. One is for 2013 and the other for 2014. The theme for 2013 was, “Delivering Inclusive Development and Social Justice.” The theme for 2014 is, “Moving Forward to Consolidate Growth and Social Justice in Peace and Unity.”

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, basically, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, my point of order is on Hon. Edgar Lungu.

Sir, it is a well-known fact that the number one country, with regard to football, in this world is Brazil. Every country looks forward to playing against it and many of them have been beaten by very big margins. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

What is your point of order?

Mr Mbulakulima: I am getting there, Mr Speaker. 

Laughter 

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, raise your point of order. 

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, when the Zambia National Soccer Team, which jetted into China on Sunday, plays an away game against a team like Brazil, which has been in China for a long time, and loses two goals to nil, it is a big deal. As Dennis would say, it is losing with dignity and honour. Therefore, is Hon. Edgar Lungu, who is acting hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, in order to sit dejectedly and not celebrate the fact that the team has played well? I want your serious ruling. 

Laughter   

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! You have adequately debated your point of order. 

The hon. Member for Bweengwa may continue. 

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, just from the themes of the two budget speeches, the problem is understood. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister outlines the macro-economic indicators. It is the same old story, as he acknowledged in his first Budget Address, that the former Government stabilised the economy. 

Dr Kaingu: Yes. 

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, therefore, the growth foundation was laid and nothing much has changed. The hon. Minister has admitted this. 

Mr Speaker, the problem was always that this growth was not inclusive. This was the next question to be answered and I think that the former Government was on its way to answering it. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, in an attempt to answer this question, the MMD Government created multi-facility economic zones. During this time, I was in the now Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour and we interrogated our colleagues. They had a vision. Since growth had been achieved and there was macro-economic stability, they could move to inclusive growth. This is an assignment that the PF Government should have taken up instead of continuing with the same stories of growth. The story of growth is over.

Mr Speaker, the biggest problem that this Government has, which is not helping the hon. Minister of Finance, is its failure to answer the question of how this growth can be made inclusive. It is very easy to recite figures. Even in the President’s Speech, this nice story of inherited growth was there. However, the issue is to make growth inclusive. 

Mr Speaker, I am now going to show you the bad human development statistics of this country. The head count poverty is at 64 per cent. Extreme poverty is at 42 per cent. These are people living on the margins of survival. The life expectancy in Zambia is between forty-five and fifty years. The Gini co-efficient, which measures the income inequality, is 0.65, making Zambia one of the most unequal countries in the world. We are almost becoming worse than the South Africa under Apartheid. This means that the growth is not inclusive. We must tackle this issue. 

Sir, the growth that is taking place now is what I would call “jobless growth”. It is a growth that does not create jobs. Jobs are a nexus between growth and poverty reduction. If you want to deal with poverty, create jobs. The poor people have something to offer and that is their labour. If you do not employ their labour, you will not reduce poverty. The Social Cash Transfer is not a solution. Poor people have their land and labour to offer. Give them what they are missing and they will work themselves out of poverty. You cannot ‘donate’ people out of poverty. 

Mr Speaker, secondly, this growth is ruthless because of the inequalities embedded in it. It pushes the majority on the margins of survival. It is ruthless because it is not rooted in the people and can even disappear overnight. If the copper prices went down, today, the so-called growth would be wiped out. 

Mr Muntanga: That is right!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, it is not rooted in the people. It is fake. 

Mr Speaker, this growth is futureless. When our copper is finished, we will be very poor again. The issue is to make growth inclusive now. Make it pro-people, pro-job and pro-nature. It must be inclusive and rooted in the people to make them count. 

Mr Speaker, I think that the grace period for the PF Administration is over. We want to take it on. It is not about the Government, it is about the people. You are just workers at the tax payers’ mercy. They pay you for sitting there, including His Excellency the President. All of you are workers and you must deliver to the aspirations of the people. There is no need for the citizenry to ask for development. The Government must just bring about development without being asked because the money that will be used to deliver it does not belong to the Government. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: It is terrible!

Mr Hamududu: I will never ask for development from the Government because I would be destroying this country. You must give the people development. If you cannot, leave office. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can you address the Chair.

Mr Hamududu: I am addressing you, Sir, even though I am facing this side. 

Laughter 

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, you are not. Address the Chair. 

Mr Hamududu:  I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker, this is very serious. The majority of people live in poverty in a country which has so many God-given resources. The people are complaining and I am here to represent them. The PF Government must examine …

Mr Muntanga: Basopo!

Mr Hamududu: … its development strategy. 

Sir, in the 2013 Budget, the PF Government promised to create 200,000 informal jobs. This means that these jobs are indecent.  Only 58,000 decent jobs have been created.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Good. 

This is what I mean when I say address the Chair. 

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: Already, Sir, the Government has fallen short of its promise because out of a target of 200,000 only 58,000 decent jobs have been created. 

Mr Speaker, there was an hon. Minister who glorified 4,000 informal jobs that have no security and are not pensionable. How can one come here and do that when people are operating in unsanitary conditions? The Government has the responsibility to create decent jobs which should be reflected in the Budget. The Government’s strategies are not working because, already, it has missed the target. The figures are here, out of 2,000 only 58,000 decent jobs have been created. 

Mr Speaker, I want to touch on the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. It is a good thing if it will be inclusive. We are happy that the Government is ambitious on infrastructure development. However, you cannot use it to export money and empower other people. We should have done our homework. You mean that after forty-nine years of Independence, our engineers cannot work on roads? Let us capacitate our local people and not the Chinese to work on the roads. You borrow money and export it. Where is the inclusiveness? Who is going to benefit from those roads that are being constructed? The money is going into foreign hands. I, therefore, agree with Hon. Mbulakulima who said that you are linking the Chinese through this Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. 

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the growth must be driven by Zambians. This money must remain in this country to increase the reproductive capacity of the economy. If there are Zambians working on these roads, well and good. I have noticed that most of these roads are being worked on by Zambians employed by foreign companies. Before embarking on this ambitious programme, we should have prepared our own, the Zambian people, to form companies in readiness to undertake these projects. Later on, we could have floated the contracts. 

Interruptions 

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, if Zambians do not have the capacity to undertake these projects, then we must wait until they are ready. This is capital flight, and yet you are telling us that you are creating jobs … 

Interruptions

 
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! This is what I mean when I say address the Speaker. When you speak through a direct confrontation, you will see how they will directly answer back at you like they are doing now? I cannot stop them because it becomes difficult. Therefore, I request that you your keep cool and dddress the Chair.

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I am going to give a few examples. As we criticise, we must give solutions. The Link Zambia 8,000 km and Pave Zambia 2,000 km projects must be driven by Zambians. This is called inclusive growth. Growth must be driven by the Zambian people themselves. If Zambians are not ready, they should have been prepared to cash in. This money must remain in the country to improve reproductive capacity of the economy.

Mr Speaker, experience has shown, and there is enough evidence, that for us to deliver inclusive development … 

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to say that there are no Zambian contractors awarded contracts under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project without providing evidence to this House? Let him lay evidence on the Table to show that there are no Zambian contractors that have been engaged.

Mr Deputy Speaker: When your chance to debate comes, you can rebutT that, hon. Deputy Minister.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, for example, the Kitwe/Chingola Dual Carriageway dual on the Copperbelt, which is one the biggest projects is being worked on by a Chinese contractor. One of the biggest contracts in Luapula, the road connecting to Mporokoso and Luwingu is also being worked on by a foreign contractor. What we are saying, therefore, is that after forty-nine years of Independence, our people are capable of undertaking all these contracts. I was in Botswana last month …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right! 

Just take note of what the hon. Member is saying so that when your time to debate comes, you are able to counter what he is saying. The way we are going about it is not right.

Continue, hon. Member for Bweengwa.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, our people cannot be eating crumbs of bread in their own country from a foreign master, who is using our own resources and own borrowed money which our children will pay back.

Mr Speaker, on employment …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: This is the last point of order I will allow on the hon. Member on the Floor.

You have your point of order.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I am at great pains to sit here and listen to our colleagues on your right making running commentaries on a well-structured debate by the hon. Member for Bweengwa.

Hon Government Members: Question!

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, most of them lack economic knowledge. Are they in order not to appreciate the debate by Hon. Hamududu so that they can make informed decisions?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Why are you raising a point of order on something that I have already guided on? Do you want to rub it in? You have just repeated what I said. I said that the people on my right should just take notes.

 As I said, hon. Member for Bweengwa, you are protected. No more points of order on you.

You may continue.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the unemployment situation in this country is a crisis and it requires a scaled up approach. I want to tell the Government that the current statistics − I am happy I used to jointly feature with one of my brothers, who is now the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, on most of the radio stations and fora. At that time, prior to the 2011 Elections, the total labour force in this country was about 5 million. The employable people are plus or minus 800,000. Over the last two years, we have had many people joining the labour force. These are people who are employable. The current statistics show that about 7 million Zambians constitute the labour force. Those are able and available to work. Out of that, only about a million have formal jobs.

Therefore, Mr Speaker, formal employment in this country constitutes only 15 per cent if you calculate. The larger percentage of jobs is in the informal sector. In the squalor, no wonder the Gini co-efficient is widening over the years. The economy is growing for a few people and, sometimes, the foreigners. We need to reverse that. When you go into town, you see the stress. At the moment, people are listening. They are so stressed. There are no jobs. There is no money in their pockets and the only way the Government can reach out to them is by creating jobs. There are many ways to do that and evidence is there. 

Mr Speaker, the first one is education. Invest in human capital. You cannot have a Cabinet crowding out Parliament. For the first time, hon. Deputy Ministers are sitting in the third row.

Dr Kaingu: Ni pay day.

Mr Mbulakulima: Third row.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the problem is that the Government is bloated. The money must go to where it really matters. Fewer hon. Ministers can still do the job. It is the systems that need to be addressed.
 
Mr Sikazwe:  Question!{mospagebreak}

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, take the money to education. The Zambian children, girl child in particular, deserves universal primary and secondary education, and even skills training. That we can provide. The fiscal space is there. Examples of countries that invested in human capital abound.

Mr Speaker, the examples of South Korea, Singapore and Finland are there for anyone to see. They invested in human capital. The greatest investment you can make is not construction of roads. It is in the human capital. If you do that, you now begin to reap from the innovation. This started from a store (lifted his cellular phone).

Mr Hamududu: It is a Samsung.

Mr Kalaba: Lay it on the Table.

Mr Hamududu: Yes, I will lay it there, but I will remove the subscriber identity module (SIM) card. In the last quarter of 2012, the net profit for Samsung was bigger than our National Budget here. If you invest in human capital, this is what people can do. There are no resources in South Korea. Singapore is just a place with sand. Finland developed from forestry to technology. In Finland, because of technology, even today, there is free education. We would not be making a mistake if we invested in human capital. If you argue with us, we are going to give you a budget alternative to show you that we can provide universal primary and secondary education and skills training.

Mr Sikazwe: Question!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, some of these ministries must be merged. The ministries of Youth and Sport and Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education should be merged.

Mr Livune: That is right!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, schools can be used as centres of excellence. During the holidays when the regular schools have closed, those who have completed school can utilise the schools for skills training. Schools, today, can feed themselves. Each school can have a farm in which children can grow food. They can have milling companies to process their food. When the regular schools close, the school-leavers can use the schools for skills training. All children must be given 100 skills for them to tap into the natural resources. 

Mr Speaker, roads are being made to attract investors, but it is not investors who will take us from poverty. It is the Zambian people. Examples of countries which were uplifted from poverty by investing in human capital are many. For example, in South Korea, Singapore and Finland, it is the local people who invented technologies like Nokia and Samsung. In this country, we even have minerals. All the combination minerals that can make these cellular phones are here, but people celebrate the presence of investors. Yes, we need to partner with them, but we must not leave the local people out.

Mr Speaker, at the moment, resources to build youth centres are being shared when there are already schools that have facilities. When children go on holiday, use those facilities to train the youths who are unemployed. We can actually handle all the children who do not go to universities by imparting them with life skills. For three months, these schools are just closed and there is nothing that happens there. We can use those facilities for skills training. These schools are around the whole country. If you do not invest in human capital, this country will be taken over by foreigners and it is beginning to show. People are rushing to this country to  seize opportunities which should be meant for our people. If you educate your people, the girl child will delay the time to have children. They will have fewer children per family and the dependency ratio will reduce. If the dependency rate is reduced, the Zambian people will begin to save.

Mr Speaker, you have heard the demographic dividends. Zambia is not ready to reap that. You cannot have a demographic dividend with high a fertility rate. People have nothing to do, hence, they resort to reproduction. What is there to do when they drop out of school other than to get pregnant and get Married.

Mr Livune: Yes!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, early marriages and teenage pregnancies are the orders of the day. One way to stop that social bug is to invest in universal primary and secondary education. The UPND will do that from day one.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon Government Members: When? Where?

Mr Hamududu: Yes, we shall provide free education up to tertiary level because hon. Ministers will drive corollas.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I want to give the last example.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the informal sector needs to be graduated into the formal sector. For example, street vending is dehumanising to our people. There is street vending in many countries, but it is done in a formal manner. Facilities for street vending can be created. For instance, number the stands where street vendors operate from so that they can also pay tax. However, in this country, people have been allowed to trade in the streets freely. As a result, investors are chased away because of insecurity. We are not against street vendors, but they must be given an opportunity to trade in decency so that they graduate from informal to formal trade and thereby pay taxes.

Mr Speaker, if the glorifying of the informal sector was stopped, this country would raise more money in taxes than what is currently obtaining. As it is, the Government is not getting taxes from the majority of the traders. Many countries have done this. For example, Ghana and Uganda are doing it.  Hon. Mutati and I saw how they formalise the informal sector when we were there.

Sir, these people make money. If only you could give them the facilities such as designated vending streets with proper shops, stands, drainage systems and sanitary facilities, this country would reap the benefits of orderly trade. It is possible. However, the Government has allowed these colleagues to trade in the streets, hence chasing away those who want to bring investment to this country and create jobs in the long run.

Finally, Sir, …

The amber light went on.

Mr Hamududu: I wish I had more time …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: I will give you mine!

Mr Hamududu: … I would like to talk about the area of agriculture. We have heard that some big company has bought a 10,000 hectares farm to grow soya beans. However, the example of Nakambala must be replicated. Any big investor must have an out-grower scheme so that this growth includes the people. We can have all the soya beans or sugar, but if the people are not involved in the growth, then, that investment does not grow with the people. Thus, the economy will continue posting positive macro-economic indicators and our people will become poorer. We can create anchor farms, as a condition, so that we buy from the out-growers. 

Sir, the job of the Government is to provide extension services so that these people begin to produce the right inputs and products for this bigger investor to buy and export. That we can do around the country. Within two to three years, we can create 3 million jobs. In five years, we can literally reduce unemployment to manageable levels.

Sir, I want to conclude by saying that the PF has not answered the question of inclusive growth. The PF Government was elected on the platform of pro-poor and it is not walking the talk. It is high time it began to walk the talk. It is failing to include the majority of the people in its development agenda.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Motion that was moved by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Sir, the more I come across the actions of the PF Government, …

Mr Muntanga: You want to cry!

Mr Belemu: … its writings and things it says, the more I get disturbed about where it is leading this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Look at them!

Mr Belemu: Sir, earlier in the afternoon, we were told that this Government is taking us to Canaan, but this is not how the route to Canaan looks like.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: These people are taking us to a den of lions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: That is right! Tell them!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, I am troubled by this Budget for two reasons. The first one being that I would have thought the hon. Minister of Finance would have interrogated his colleagues and other sectors before arriving at this Budget.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, by what is written in this speech, you can clearly tell that not much work was done to interrogate the sectors.

Hon. Opposition Members:  Hear, hear! They are fighting!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, the second concern I have is that the arguments that are supporting the figures that are in this Budget are either half truths or not true at all.

Hon. Opposition Member: That is right!

Ms Kapata: Question!

Mr Belemu: I will demonstrate that, Mr Speaker.

My worry is that if the hon. Minister of Finance is not the one who is going to help us to interrogate this economy, then, who will in this country?

Mr Muntanga: Masumba!

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, that is my greatest worry.

Sir, we are told that the theme is, “Moving forward to Consolidated Growth and Social Justice in peace and Unity”. Nevertheless, if you observe the PF’s governance, there is nothing that comes close to this theme. In the first place, there is no social justice in peace that we can talk about. Nothing resonates with what the Government is trying to say in this Budget. Nothing tallies with what the Government has written here.

Mr Speaker, for example, not too long ago, we were given a break down on how disbursement of the CDF has been done this year. Clearly, the country has been divided into two.

Mr Muntanga: That is right!

Mr Belemu: So, where is the social justice and unity we are talking about there?

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and his colleague, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, should have helped us to understand the reasoning behind dividing this country in two parts. There is no social justice and unity. It is clearly discriminatory. If the Government cannot honour its obligation through funds like the CDF, I do not know how much more it will honour in other areas.

Mr Sikazwe: Question!

Mr Belemu:  Mr Speaker, I am troubled.

Instead of my questioning why the Government wants to divide the country, it should just tell us to pick another option. We can go to Barotseland and form a Federal State.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: You are a better partner!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, we have been told about the roads that are being worked on, but when you read about these roads, you realise that they are in one part of the country. The Government has been talking about the Bottom Road, but according to it, the Bottom Road is from Munyumbwe to Chiyanga. That is not the Bottom Road. That is a stretch of a lone road. Where are the Niko/Monze, Pemba/Mapanza, Muyobe/Macha and …

Mr Muntanga: Moonga/Ngweze road mwana!

Mr Belemu: … Dundumwezi roads? Where is the Katunda Road?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Lukulu!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, when you look at the infrastructure development plan, you can clearly tell that this country is being divided into two in real terms.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Makamaka bene Jean!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, we have even started hearing of strange names of universities now that we never heard before like Paul Mushindo.

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, we have been told that this Government is going to continue to build dams, but where will they be built? I come from a constituency that practices agriculture through and through. Apart from the Public Service workers such as teachers and nurses, nothing else is done there, but agriculture.

However, Sir, there are no dams and vaccinations. We had to renovate the dip tanks by using the CDF some time back to help the situation, but the Government is saying it wants to continue with building dams. Where are the dams?

Ms Kapata: Ask the MMD or HH!

Hon. Opposition Members: Oh! Aleisa!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, is this the kind of mentality that hon. Ministers should have of asking us to seek answers from somebody who is out there, and yet they are the ones that are receiving money from the tax payers? If hon. Ministers can have such a mentality, then, it is disaster for this country. I think that the problems that we have in this country are worse than I thought when I started talking six minutes ago.

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, still on agriculture, the hon. Minister has given two reasons why there was reduced maize production. He cited an outbreak of army worms and lower rainfall in the southern part of the country. If we fail to interrogate a sector fully and truthfully, we will always be missing the solutions. The reasons put forward are not the only ones. For example, in my constituency, there were no army warms, but still maize production went down.

Mr Speaker, the reasons are that farmers were not paid for their previous supply of maize and so, they could not reinvest in agriculture. The other reason is that even transporters who helped the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) to transport maize were also not paid and so, they too could not reinvest the small amounts of money they had into agriculture. Further, the inputs were either delivered late or not delivered at all. So, what makes the Government think that these problems I have highlighted had no effect on the production of maize, when it is very clear that they had an effect? We need to correctly look into these sectors in order to arrive at finding solutions and not blame nature. Yes, nature could have played a part but, by and large, the problems we have regarding maize production have been created by the PF Government itself.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has, again, let us down by not interrogating the tourism sector. Instead, he came here to say that he was very satisfied with Zambia’s hosting of the UNWTO Conference. However, I would like to know what gauge the Government is using to measure this success. 

Mr Speaker, we are told that there were 4,000 delegates at the UNWTO Conference. If the hon. Minister of Finance had bothered to investigate, he would have known that of those, less than 1,000 were international delegates. He would also have known that the majority of those delegates did not stay on the Zambian side, but the Zimbabwean side. So, where is the value of the 4,000 delegates? These 4,000 delegates comprised your drivers, the District Commissioners, cadres and others who were invited to attend the conference. Those are not tourists, but people who just went to the conference to consume our money.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Sir, we cannot say the hosting of this conference was successful.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister should have helped us to look into all this. We are told that the successful hosting of this UNWTO Conference was as a result of the incentives that were put in place in the 2013 Budget and that this worked very well. The other reason is that of the infrastructure development that is being carried out there.

Sir, these incentives became operational after the delegates to the UNWTO had already made their reservations and bookings at the various hotels and lodges. So, at what stage did these incentives have an effect? We need to look at what the serious issues are. The hon. Minister of Finance should have asked himself how many of the 4,000 delegates really brought value to the tourism sector in this country. It is a very small figure, if not negligible.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister should have further asked himself how these incentives could bring rewards to this country within a month or two. The hon. Minister should have helped us to look at long-term investments and incentives that go into the tourism sector. Those incentives are the ones that bring rewards. Reducing accommodation rates and expecting people, who have already booked accommodation elsewhere, will not have a positive effect on the country’s tourism sector. Most importantly, it is high time the Ministry of Finance helped this country by asking its colleagues in the Ministry of Tourism and Art what measurement they used to define the success of the hosting of this conference. The Government is calling it a success because the organisers of the conference stayed there for three months watching birds and monkeys. That is not success in the tourism sector. As I speak, there is no correct method of measuring the benefits of the conference to the tourism sector. We have advised that the tourism sector be prioritised but, to date, the Government is still dragging its feet. The reason is that it wants to keep telling us that the conference was successful verbally. I say no to this. This is an economic sector and figures must speak.

Sir, in any case, how can we say the UNWTO Conference was successful when, everyday, we are reading of people who abused resources and are being taken to the courts of law? We were better off not holding the UNTWO Conference so that those resources would have been channelled to other things. Abuse of resources is against the very essence of the UNTWO General Assembly. You cannot hold the UNWTO Conference and use it as a guise to steal or abuse public resources. It is an embarrassment that, because of hosting the UNWTO Conference, we have officials being suspended and others being taken to the courts of law. In fact, if we did a forensic audit, I am sure more people, including those who think they can come here and start raising points order, may be found wanting.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, we have heard that the idea of the Budget Speech is to diversify tourism. Public investment in the sector and the linkages must be very clear. When we talk about diversification, we need to know what we are diversifying from. We have not even tapped the potential that we have. So, what will we be diversifying from? Where I come from, you do not just go to plough many fields before the planting season starts. People who do this are called vagabonds.

Ms Kapata: In Tonga?

Mr Belemu: Yes.

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Sir, do not push me to give examples because I may just cite you.

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, we have been told about decentralisation and local government. Again, I am troubled because the thinking of the PF is that once you make a pronouncement that a district has been created, then, you have decentralised. How is that so? That is not decentralisation and I do not think that that was the spirit of the original concept of the Decentralisation Policy. I have not seen the revised policy on decentralisation, maybe, that is what it says but, world over, this is not decentralisation. Creating …

Ms Kapata: Mwaice, ikala panshi.

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member debating in order to say that the formation of districts is not decentralisation when he is on record as having said he wanted to have Mbabala turned into district.

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, I am not on any record as having said that. What I am on record AS having said is that I want a district hospital, primary and secondary schools and development in Mbabala.

Ms Kalmia: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, on one hand, there is decentralisation and on the other hand, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing wants to approve the CDF projects from Lusaka. The CDF, by design, was meant for smaller community projects that could be implemented within one Budget Cycle. These projects are selected by communities but, now, papers for approving the CDF projects must come to Lusaka. Worse still, the year is coming to an end and the CDF has not been disbursed. By the time those papers are brought to Lusaka and the hon. Minister attends to them, it will be next year. So, what decentralisation are we talking about?

Mr Speaker, let me get closer to home. Choma District was declared a provincial capital at the same time as Muchinga. However, if you go to Muchinga Province now, you will find a provincial administration building, but when you go to Choma, you will find nothing. That is when the foundation for the provincial administration building is being dug.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you for granting me this opportunity to rise on this point of order. I have been keenly following my dear colleague, who usually debates so well. However, today, he is in wander world. Is he in order to insinuate and mislead the nation and this Chamber that when you go to Muchinga in Chinsali, you will find a provincial administration block unlike in Choma where he claims that there is none when, in fact, both projects are at the same stage?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, take that point of order into account as you debate.

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, there is clear evidence of the buildings that are being constructed countrywide. There are documentaries on this at the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). Not a single building has been built in Choma since it was declared the provincial capital. What has happened is the painting of all the old buildings. These are serious matters that we are raising here. We are not joking. Mbabala, which is in the district of the provincial capital, has not seen any new developments. There is no evidence that we are in the provincial capital. The Government needs to construct schools, hospitals and roads there. We need to educate girls in Mbabala. 

Sir, if these people on your right think that they will continue getting maids from Mbabala by not educating the people there, they are in for a rude shock.

Mr Mufalali: Tell them, mwana!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, we want our girls and boys there to have skills. The Government must take education to Mbabala.

Mr Mwaliteta: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions 

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, Mbabala cannot be used as a nursery for producing servants, and yet it is just next to the provincial capital. We want that …

Mr Mwaliteta: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is the last point of order I am going to allow on the hon. Member on the Floor. 

You have your point of order.

Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, I want to apologise to my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala, for disturbing his debate. However, is he in order to incite the people of Mbabala not to sell their maize to the FRA? I need your serious ruling.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

That is why it is important that we pay attention to what is being said. I think the hon. Member for Mbabala said maids and not maize.

Continue, hon. Member.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Maids not mapopwe!

Mr Belemu: I intend to incite our maids to induce malnutrition in your children by drinking their baby formula and eating their porridge so that we punish you. This is too much. Mwahibila. Sorry, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is mwahibilia?

Mr Belemu: Sir, it means they are taking us for granted. They think that way life must go on.

Mr Speaker, if we were not good people to the missionaries, the secondary schools in Mbabala, such as Macha, St Francis and St Marks were all not going to be built. We are good people and not thieves. So, they trusted us, hence built their schools there.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: However, Sir, we need a proper school to be built in Mbabala by the Government. We were promised a school over a number of years ago, but it has not come to fruition.

Mr Mwaliteta: It has only been two years.

Mr Belemu: Even that two years you are talking about is a lot of time to build a secondary school.

Mr Speaker, the skills training centre in Mbabala is dilapidated. We have raised this matter so many times, but nothing has been done about it, and yet we are being told that we are in the provincial capital. Where is the development? That is what we are asking for. If the Government wants to talk about social justice, peace and unity, I can assure you that there will be no unity as long as we continue to deliver development in a biased fashion.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, we want to see infrastructure development in Choma, the provincial capital. We want to see the roads there being worked on. We keep hearing about the Pave Zambia 2,000 km Project. What are these people on your right paving, Sir?

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, We want the roads in the residential areas in Choma to be upgraded to bituminous standard. At the moment, only the main road in this so-called provincial capital is being upgraded. Why should this be the case?

Mr Mufalali: It is better we bring our animals there.

Mr Belemu: Sir, these people must not tempt us to think of another country called Barotseland because we keep remembering Barotseland whenever they mistreat us.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Home Affairs and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Lungu): Sir, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Question put and agreed to.

______________ 

The House adjourned at 1750 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 16th October, 2013.