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Debates- Friday, 18th October, 2013
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY
Friday, 18th October, 2013
The House met at 0900 hours
[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
_______
ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER
SESSIONAL COMMITTEES –MEMBERSHIP
Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order 131, the following appointments have been made in relation to the following Sessional Committees:
Committee on Estimates
Mr R.P. Mtolo, MP, to replace Dr E. Kazonga, MP
Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour
Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP, to replace Mr C. W. Kakoma, MP
NETBALL AND FOOTBALL MATCHES
Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, further to my announcement on Wednesday, 9th October, 2013, concerning the football and netball matches between the National Assembly Members of Parliament teams and the Diplomats which will take place this afternoon, 18th October, 2013, I wish to request all participating hon. Members to assemble at the National Assembly Members’ Motel at 1345 hours in readiness for the games.
I thank you.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
_____
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
The Vice-President(Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I wish to acquaint the House with the business it will consider next week.
Sir, on Tuesday, 22nd October, the Business of the House will commence with Questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply.
On Wednesday, 23rd October, the Business of the House will begin with Questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply.
Sir, since Thursday, 24th October is Independence Day, which is a public holiday, the House will not sit.
Sir, on Friday, 25th October, the House will begin with the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
_____
HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME
Mr Simbao (Senga Hill):Mr Speaker, six or seven months ago, I raised the issue of the payment of transporters of maize for the 2011/2012 Season. The Government promised to pay the transporters in a month’s time after the issue was raised. To date, however, the transporters have not been paid. What are we supposed to keep on telling them?
The Vice-President(Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, the transporters do not deal with the Vice-President. At a political level, they deal with the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock. Unfortunately, he is not here, thus I cannot pass on the question to him. However, I know that there are on-going negotiations and consultations all the time about this issue. I cannot confirm the current state of affairs because I had no notice of this question.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, since the Patriotic Front (PF) took over office, only one Head of State has visited this country. I want to find out from His Honour the Vice-President why this is so. Is it because of the country’s poor diplomatic relations?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) General Conference was graced by a number of Heads of State.
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
His Honour the Vice-President is answering the question.
The Vice-President: Sir, the Prime Minister of Turkey is on his way here as I speak. His Excellency the President of Zimbabwe, who I am sure the hon. Member for Mapatizya is referring to, has been here.
Sir, the situation is normal.
I thank you.
Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, you will recall that under the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) Government, conditions of service for civil servants were very bad. Your Honour the Vice-President, now that the PF Government has improved these conditions, what measures has it put in place to ensure that there is an improvement in performance as well?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is a very good question.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Sir, for the interest of the hon. Members, I wish to state that we do not use the Mapatizya Formula to plant questions in this House. The questions just come up in a completely spontaneous manner.
Laughter
The Vice-President: Sir, I will gladly answer the question by Hon. Mwila.
Sir, obviously, productivity in the Civil Service has been as prominent a problem as has pay. We expect people to be much more easily frightened that they will lose their jobs on the basis of poor output because they are being well paid. We expect that that they will work harder. We expect that performance will improve because workers will not worry so much about feeding their families. We will also be in a position to command them more firmly.
I thank you, Sir.
Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President has described his administration as a changanya one in today’s The Post newspaper. Changanya means distasteful, poor quality and confused.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, this description has come up because of too many hon. Ministers going in and out of the country. What confidence does His Honour the Vice-President think his administration is instilling in the Zambian people?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I take issue with what Hon. Prof Lungwangwa has said. I do not know if what he has said is the official Lozi version of the meaning of changanya.
Laughter
The Vice–President: Sir, changanya normally means unofficial or alternative. Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa has not quoted me directly. He is basing what was said in article which was in a newspaper for today. I did not at any point describe the PF Government as a changanya administration. There are two problems with that question, and these are the word itself and whether I used it.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, part of the UNWTO General Conference activities recently took place in Livingstone.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Mr Livune: Sir, why did the Government see it fit not to invite all the chiefs from Kazungula to the conference? Out of five, only one was invited. Why did they segregate to that extent?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if we went all over the areas which surround Livingstone inviting chiefs to attend the conference, we would have ended up with about 600 Chiefs there. I am not sure what the precise thinking of the organisers was when inviting chiefs. However, I believe that it could still have been reasoned that since Kazungula was close enough to the action, all the chiefs in the area were to attend the conference.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, since the Government has been advertising that it will start tolling some roads from November 2013, can His Honour the Vice-President indicate what measures have been put in place to alert citizens about this so that they are aware that they will have to pay tolling fees when using certain roads. For the sensitisation to be effective, it should not only be in English. Are there any measures which have been put in place to inform citizens on this development through local languages?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that we can do. We can ask the Road Development Agency (RDA) to issue a few advertisements in local languages. There are advertisements in English which have been coming out in the press. Hopefully, we will have a smooth introduction of this new system.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President when seeds will be distributed, especially to the Northern, North-Western and Luapula provinces where rains have started, knowing that the D-compound fertiliser has already been taken to those areas.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we can ask the hon. Minister to update the nation on the distribution of inputs again next week. This he does every two or three weeks. I think it is a bit too much to ask the Vice-President to know what is happening in each district in terms of the input distribution exercise. That is a tall order.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) progress report authored by the Government and United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) reveals that stunted growth caused by chronic malnutrition is at 46 per cent among our children. What measures have been put in place to address this serious problem?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I was just at a nutrition conference in London the other day. I think the generally accepted fact of the matter is that, for medicine of any sort or food to reach the intended beneficiaries, there is a need for a proper delivery system. The system should make sure that people eat the right foods, mothers do not dehydrate babies when they have diarrhea, babies are vaccinated and the use of insecticide treated mosquito nets is encouraged. We view that problem of nutrition as a serious one. The money which is going into the health sector from donors like Bill Gates will all be going into the same system so that we can try to reach everybody who should be reached. We only reach about half the mothers in Zambia due to the long distances from their homes and a lack of accommodation close to the medical centres. We have to improve our system. There are also some genetic factors at play in some of the provinces where people are not what you would call pure Bantu. They have some Batwa influence in the genetics. The Batwa, genetically tend to be smaller than other people.
Laughter
The Vice-President: Sir, it is true. Are we denying who we are?
Mr Mwiimbu: Who is ‘we’! What is he saying?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker,you do not necessarily have to be small to be a Batwa. You can be like the hon. Member for Kalomo Central.
Mr Muntanga: A Minister, yes.
The Vice-President: Ha ha. Yes, you can be like future hon. Minister and Member for Kalomo Central.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Sir, what we are talking about is a slight technical issue. However, I do not think that there is a dispute that the problem of stunted growth is severe and needs to the attended to. We have our eye on that problem.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President shade light on the contract which was awarded to a Turkish company to carry out works on the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport. When this Government took over, it could not allow the company to proceed with the works because it discovered that the contract was awarded dubiously. Can His Honour the Vice-President indicate whether that matter has been investigated. If it has been, what is the conclusion?
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chipungu: No job for you.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, a new contract has been awarded to a new contractor.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, the Secretary-General of the PF is on record as having said that there are corrupt elements …
Mr Kambwili: Where?
Ms Namugala: … in Government. I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether his Government has failed to report those corrupt elements to the appropriate authorities. Is the Government merely concealing the corruption?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there are two things which we must bear in mind as we look at the question which has been raised by Hon. Namugala. One thing is that we had the same question two weeks ago and …
Mr Mucheleka: Just answer.
The Vice-President: … I think it was ruled out of order.
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
The Vice-President:Sir, of course, just like the Secretary-General said, there are corrupt elements in the Government. There are corrupt elements in the Opposition as well. This is a country like any other country with corrupt elements as part of its demography. You can recall that there was a time when two hon. Ministers reported each other to the Anti-Corruption Commission. What are you asking about? People will, of course, be reported if there is information. I personally handed over to the police a dossier on one of the officials in my Government the other day. I expect the issues raised in the dossier to be followed up. We are serious. We have also reported to the police people who have had too many bicycles in their backyards.
Interruptions
The Vice-President: We are proceeding normally.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the general public has difficulties to transact with Government institutions, especially here in Lusaka due to a lack of parking spaces. What is the Government doing to create parking spaces, especially in Government institutions so as to allow the general public to do business with it?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, even though the issue raised has to do more with the work of the council than the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, I will ask the hon. Minister responsible for transport to give me a brief in the next week or two on this issue. Even those of us who always have two motorcycles to clear the way for us have noticed that traffic congestion has certainly become a serious issue in Lusaka if not in other places as well.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, under the previous Government, a lot of middlemen were involved in the procurement of fertilisers. The current Government has decided to deal directly with the supplies and has also resuscitated the operations of the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia(NCZ). Is the country going to earn some savings having done things that way?
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Sir, that is a good question. My guess is that the start-up costs for the operations of the newly-rehabilitated NCZ will keep the costs up for the time being. I will have a word with the hon. Minister responsible so that he can explain to me when we should expect to start seeing the benefits of cutting out the middlemen.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, here is another good question.
Laughter
Dr Kaingu: Sir, the PF was voted into office mainly by the youths of Zambia. Now that the Government is not going to employ the youth in institutions such as the Zambia Air Force (ZAF), Zambia Army and Zambia Police Force, for the next two years, does His Honour the Vice-President not agree with me that the youths of Zambia jumped from the a frying pan into fire?
Laughter
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: First of all, Mr Speaker, that is not a good question.
Laughter
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I beg to disagree with the hon. Member that his question is a good one. In fact, it is a terrible question.
Laughter
The Vice-President: Sir, it is a thoroughly disingenuous question.
Mr Speaker, yesterday, the hon. Minister of Finance in his statement, made it very clear on what we had decided to prioritise on between spending money for public good and on salaries for civil servants. He did not simply say we had abandoned the youth.
Secondly, this Government, like the previous Government, is committed to growing the country’s economy through the free market and private investment. We would like to see the private sector booming. We are doing all we can to clear the obstacles which hinder growth in the mining, agriculture and tourism sector. These are the things we are pressing forward with.
We have also changed the investment promotion structure to make it more cost effective for an investor to create jobs than to simply bring in capital.
I thank you, Sir.
Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President categorically state to this House, what the PF Government policy is on the role of Opposition hon. Members of Parliament contributing either intellectually, socially, economically and politically to the governance of this country?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, well, this comes hot on the heels of a Private Member’s Motion that was brought yesterday and was debated very extensively by the Opposition, in a slightly graceless way in some instances.
Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!
Mr Livune: Question!
Laughter
The Vice-President: Sir, a person can hardly stand on either side of the House and say in two years, we have mismanaged the finances of this country. Even the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, who is renowned for fighting punching bags when he feels offended, agreed with the Motion which was raised by Hon. Mwale and we passed it unanimously.
Sir, unfortunately, The Daily Nation took it as a victory for the Opposition, when it was common sense which triumphed. What happened yesterday is a clear example of the role which the Opposition hon. Members should play. Hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa, I will give you another example later if you want me to do so.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, a few months ago, the Government made pronouncements that it was facilitating the establishment of a national airline. How far has the Government gone with that venture?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Cabinet Memorandum on that venture is in draft form and is being circulated amongst the various ministries. It will come before the relevant Cabinet Sub-committee and Cabinet itself in due course. However, there is no firm decision, one way or the other, that has been made at this point in time.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President what the Government’s position is regarding the promoting of tourist destinations doted across the country, apart from the Victoria Falls in Livingstone, for example, the Nkundalila Falls in Muchinga Parliamentary Constituency and Ntumbachushi Falls in Kawambwa.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is a big tourist promotion drive at the moment involving my office, the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) and the Office of the Minister of Tourism and Art to get branded hotels like Serena or Four Seasons, to come and establish their chains in Zambia so that a large number of tourists can come to visit this country.
Sir, we have so many tourist attractions and not just the waterfalls. You cannot get somebody to come half way across the world, just to come and see the Ntumbachushi Falls. People do not tour countries like that. They want to look at a number of features.
We are in discussions with the Seychelles Government about the possibilities of organising tourism packages involving partly areas around the Indian Ocean and in Zambia. So, these are some of the measures that we are taking.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, when is His Honour the Vice-President going to avail the public the concession which was signed between the Zambian Government and Zambia Sugar. Both parties are failing to adhere to the concession which was signed a decade ago. Instead of maintaining two accounts, Zambia Sugar combined them.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the problem I have is that I do not understand the question. With your indulgence, I would advise the questioner to put in a question so that we can give the answer either in a written reply form or, if it is short enough, even in an oral answer manner.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, now that Judge Chikopa has been cited for contempt of court, is the Government going to pay for hislegal fees, since it told him to go ahead with the tribunal despite a court ruling?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we shall follow the appropriate procedures. Talking about that matter is sub judice …
Mr Mukanga: Yes!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I will ask you to support me on that.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock had informed this House that it had advertised a tender for the development of an e-voucher system. Has the Government suspended the development of the e-voucher system indefinitely?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the situation is that the development of the e-voucher system has been deferred and not suspended indefinitely. The roll-out will be for the coming season. That is my understanding. I have the same source of information as Hon. Lubezhi. The hon. Minister is shaking his head so hard that it is about to fall-off. I think he is agreeing with me. I think I have got it right.
Laughter
The Vice-President: I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, practice requires that when there is a new undertaking, a person who is an expert and has experience in such a field is engaged to undertake that particular task. Could you confirm that the appointee to take the position of Ambassador in Turkey does not have any competency in diplomatic services and that she is a relative to the First Lady.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we cannot talk about individuals here, and anyway, it is the President’s prerogative to choose who should represent him in any given country. So, I am afraid, I cannot confirm anything.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, recently, the Coalition of African Parliamentarians Against HIV/AIDS (CAPAH) had the opportunity to visit the central prisons in Lusaka. The conditions in which the prisoners were found were inhuman because of congestion. A snap survey showed that the congestion was due to detainees and prohibited immigrants who had stayed there for almost five years without trial or being deported. What practical measures is the Government going to put in place to decongest our prisons?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is a problem that we inherited. When I was elected, I personally went to Chimbokaila Prison and I agree with the analysis of the hon. Member that a lot of the people in there are deportees, for example, who have been there for more than a year or two. Their countries do not seem to be interested in having them back. In fact, there are a lot of people from African countries who have been officially deported who are sitting in Chimbokaila. As I understand it, the Ministry of Home Affairs, through the Zambia Prisons Service is busy trying to carry out prisoner swaps so as to get the backlog of deportees cleared. The Government is also giving quite a lot of absolution to prisoners, who are incarcerated on minor charges and not aggravated violence, to try to keep the numbers down. We are aware of the problem and we have managed to get Mwembeshi Maximum Security Prison finished after more than forty years of the MMD and United National Independence Party (UNIP) Governments. Mwembeshi is now occupied and that way, we have decongested Kabwe Maximum Prison. So, I think, we have a good track record already.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Government, through the Food Reserve Agency, has finished buying the targeted 500,000 metric tonnes of maize. If not, why?
The Vice-President: Have you finished?
Laughter
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, yes.
I thank you, Sir.
Laughter
Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, I would like to know when the tower for Mitete, which has no gazetted chief, will be erected.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, by tower, I understand you mean the telecommunications tower, but in which chiefdom? We have surveyed areas, starting with chiefs’ headquarters as well as some rural areas that need telecommunication towers although I do not have the list. The contract has been signed and there is a provision of an overrun of fifteen towers. So, even if that area is not on the list, we will take note of it and do something about it.
I thank you, Sir.
______
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
DEVELOPMENT OF COMMERCIAL PARK AT UNZA
121. Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:
(a) what the nature of the contract signed by the University of Zambia (UNZA) and the developer, concerning the prime land belonging to the UNZA Great East Road Campus was;
(b) whether the land was advertised in the media prior to signing the contract;
(c) what the estimated cost of the project was; and
(d) what the benefits to the university were.
The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the nature of the contract between UNZA and the developer concerning the prime land of the university is based on the design, build, operate and transfer model through a public-private partnership (PPP) approach. This is an arrangement where UNZA has provided land to the developer and, in return, the developer will put up the infrastructure and run it for a period of twenty-five years, after which the property will be transferred back to UNZA.
Sir, the land in question was advertised through the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) or, at that time, the Zambia National Tender Board (ZNTB). The total estimated cost of the project is K288 million broken down as follows:
Project Amount (K)
Retail Trade Centre 100.5 million
Business Park 121.5 million
Hotel 66.0 million
Total 288.0 million
Mr Speaker, the benefits to UNZA will be five per cent of the annual gross income including rental incomes. After twenty-five years, as earlier stated, the property will be transferred back to UNZA.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, may I know the nationality of the developer company.
The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, I do not know whether it is legally proper to name the developer, but I think there is no harm. The developer isGraduare Property Development, a local company. The fact that it is a local company should cheer Hon. Mooya. Let me also state that the whole idea started some six years ago. So, this Graduare Property Development Company went into a working relationship with Inter Market Securities, who are transaction advisers, to try to raise the finance needed on the capital market. Then, it was advertised, as the hon. Deputy Minister indicated, by the ZNTB sometime in 2009. An agreement was signed at the end of 2009 at a signing ceremony which was graced by my predecessor. So, these are the developers.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, if, indeed, this project was advertised, I would like to find out how many companies responded to the advert and out of those, how many were indigenous Zambian-owned companies?
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I will need your protection because, as you indicated, this was an emergency question from Hon. Mulusa. Thus, I may not have all the details. Records from the university council indicate that when this project was advertised, six companies applied and Graduare Property DevelopmentCompany won the tender.
Thank you, Sir.
Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, will there be profit sharing between the two parties before the handing over after twenty-five years?
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, during this period, as the hon. Deputy Minister indicated, the benefits to the university from this project will be 5 per cent of the annual gross income. Also, the rentals will be negotiated between the two parties from time to time. Even the 5 per cent will be renegotiated as the project goes on.
I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}
Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, I just want to make a follow up on what my colleague, the hon. Member for Chadiza, asked. Since the 5 per cent is only on the profit, what measures have been taken in terms of risk management if things go wrong? Will the twenty-five years be extended?
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, let me add that after the signing of the agreement in 2009, this project did not take-off immediately. In that time it did not take-off, there were changes in the shareholding equations of the GraduareProperty DevelopmentCompany, leading to this new group of shareholders coming back to the university council for the revalidation of the earlier agreement. Through the Attorney-General, the university council agreed on the earlier terms, although they made observations that it was not in the best interest of the university. However, from this bad situation, the university could reap something better, looking at the cash flows that will be coming its way following the completion of this project. Negotiations will be on-going, according to the agreement that was signed.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, …
Mr Muchima: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, yesterday, when the hon. Member of Parliament for Rufunsa talked about the minimum qualification of a District Commissioner (DC), there was an instruction from you that, today, His Honour the Vice-President should come up with a response with regards to the minimum qualification of a DC, which this House and the nation are waiting for. Is it in order for His Honour the Vice-President to walk out of this House without giving us this valuable information? I would like your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Actually, His Honour the Vice-President had said he was ready to give the answer even today. I do recall that point and I said it was fine for him to do so. So, in relation to that point of order, I hope that His Honour the Vice-President, when he comes back, will be in a position to give that answer.
Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, has the Executive any intentions to replicate this model in other public universities?
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, yes, we do. Even at the same university, there is a lot of land, especially behind it. The Lusaka City Council has indicated that it will draw lessons …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Dr Phiri: … from this experience on how to go about future similar projects. We hope other institutions will also learn a few things from this PPP arrangement that UNZA went into.
Thank you, Sir.
Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, in his response to the question by …
Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to raise this point of order pertaining to the procedure of this House and the instructions that are being given here. I would like to find out whether from today, it will be at the discretion of the person who has been directed by the Chair to decide to give an answer. I am raising the issue of whether the His Honour the Vice-President and ourselves will be in order to use his own discretion when deciding when to respond to you.
Mr Deputy Speaker: The procedure is actually that when a directive has been given, the answer should be provided. I do recall clearly yesterday that the question was at which level is a DC in the governance structure. I also recall that somebody said that a DC is at director level. I also said that it is true some directors are at the level of Deputy Permanent Secretary (PS). However, I said definitely a DC is not at PS level, but somewhere between Deputy PS and Assistant PS.
That is when I had asked His Honour the Vice-President to come with a clarification today and he even said that he could do it today. This is why, following the earlier point of order, I said I hoped that when His Honour the Vice-President came in, he would be able to give that clarification. So, His Honour the Vice-President, are you able to indicate at what level a DC is, whether it is Deputy PS or whatever level?
The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I was rather hoping you would give me a bit of breathing space to research deeply into the matter. I have been provided with an answer, but I wanted to just clarify one or two things with the Secretary to the Cabinet, which I have not, of course, had the chance to do in a very short time since yesterday. For now, I will provide the response that I have been given which I intend at some future date to elaborate on.
The position of DC has now moved from the Deputy Director level of salary scale GSS 02 and is now at director level in salary scale M, following the job evaluation and re-grading exercise that was conducted in the Public Service.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, in his response to the question raised by Hon. Mtolo, the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education indicated that negotiations on the project at UNZA are on-going. I would like the hon. Minister to indicate to this House whether he does not think that since the project is in progress, the university will be disadvantaged in the negotiations as they progress.
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, there is no disadvantage at all. That is what the university council has said and we have taken its word.
I thank you, Sir.
FISH RESTOCKING IN LUAPULA
122. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:
(a) when the Government would commence the fish restocking exercise in Luapula
Province; and
(b) how much the restocking exercise would cost.
The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Speaker, the Government has started the fish restocking exercise in Luapula Province with arrangements to procure the necessary material for restocking. So far, the cites that have been identified for restocking are Kampolombo, an area between Mbabala and Chisi Island and Lake Kaponda. These areas are all located in the Bangweulu Complex in Samfya District.
Mr Speaker, the restocking exercise is expected to cost approximately K1,793,062.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, let me just get clarification from the hon. Minister. There is nothing happening so far on the ground. When will this exercise take off and is there any other plan to extend the programme to Lake Mweru?
Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
A point of order is raised.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise this very important point of order bordering on national interest and human rights in particular.
Mr Speaker, on 1st September, 2013, the Secretary-General of the United Party for National Development (UPND), Mr Winstone Chibwe, wrote a letter to the Zambia Prisons Service authorities at Mwembeshi seeking clearance for the President of the UPND, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, to visit incarcerated Mr Clement Sinyinda who is facing treason charges. This is not the first time this has happened. There is no novelty about such visitations because in the past, Mr Hakainde Hichilema and Mr Michael Sata, when they were leaders of the Opposition visited Mr Maxwell Mututwa who was the former hon. Member of Parliament for Senanga and former Ngambela in prison when he was facing charges of treason.
Mr Speaker, according to a letter dated 14th September, and signed by a Mr Michael Sakala, Superintendent Deputy Prison Secretary, the Ministry of Home Affairs had refused to grant Mr Hakainde Hichilema permission to visit Mr Clement Sinyinda.
Mr Speaker, is the Patriotic Front (PF) using the Ministry of Home Affairs to stop Mr Hakainde Hichilema from visiting Mr Sinyinda? Most importantly, is the PF in order not to allow an incarcerated person to receive visits from relatives and well-wishers? I need a very serious ruling.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
The three arms of Government, that is, the Judiciary, Executive and Legislature, have different responsibilities. The issue Hon. Mweetwa raised falls under the responsibility of the Executive arm of the Government. Hon. Mweetwa wants to know why the visitation in question has not been allowed. Therefore, it will be difficult for the Legislature to ask the Executive why it has not allowed the visitation to take place. I think that, maybe, the best that you can do under such circumstances is to let the Executive arm of the Government take that matter up and see how best it can handle it. I am not directing the Executive to do things in a particular manner. I am saying that we will leave the Executive arm of the Government to handle the matter in its own way.
The hon. Member for Chembe may continue.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I completed my question, I just need an answer now.
The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Sichinga): Mr Speaker, maybe, I should give a bit more information to clarify what the ministry is doing in a number of its programmes. As part of our diversification programme, we are undertaking various assignments, including fish restocking not only in Luapula, but also in other locations such as the Western Province. The first process obviously is the acquisition of materials that are required in order to implement this exercise. At this point, you may not see anything physical on the ground until all these materials have been acquired, hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe. We are taking this as a major programme for the entire country, and the three places that have been identified so far are Siavonga, Zambezi River in Western Province and Luapula Province. These are the three places where we are undertaking intensified fish restocking exercises and introducing new breeds. This is what we are doing at the moment.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, currently, there is a lot of importation of fish and most of it is coming from countries as far as China. Given the saga we had recently over ZAMBEEF, we are worried because we are not sure of the preservation methods that are being used to bring this fish from faraway places like China. By not expediting this process of fish restocking, does the Government not see the danger that us,the citizens, will continue to be exposed to some dangerous substances or chemicals which may be used to preserve the fish coming from places like China?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, yes, I can see that danger. However, the only difference I have with the hon. Member who has just raised that question is when he said that we are not expediting the process. We are expediting the process because we want the country to meet its own fish requirements. You will recall that the statement made by the hon. Minister of Finance, in fact, emphasises this point. We intend to produce those things that we can produce for ourselves. We want to avoid the issue of importing things that we are able to produce on our own.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the people of Luapula Province mostly depend on fishing. If they do not go to school, they become fishermen. Since the lakes no longer have fish and the restocking exercise is taking long, how are the people of Luapula surviving? What measures has the Government put in place to make sure that the people in Luapula do not starve to death?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, what we have said in the principle answer is exactly what we are doing. We said that we were expediting the processes of restocking. For us, aquaculture is a major project which we would like to implement in all the places where it is possible for us to do so. As we debate the 2014 Budget, you will see that there are specific programmes that the ministry will undertake with regard to expediting the restocking excise. If the former Government had helped to start that particular process, we would be much farther than where we are at the moment. So, we have to start afresh in intensifying our efforts.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, why has the hon. Minister deliberately decided to live out Lake Mweru from the fish restocking exercise?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, we have not left out any areas which need to be attended to. The restocking exercise will go beyond Lake Bangweulu. I have just explained that we are not just doing it in Luapula, but also the Western, Southern and Northern provinces. We want to offer all these places the opportunity to improve on their production levels.
Sir, there is a lot of work already going on in Kafue which is close to us. At the moment, one location in Kafue is producing just under 1,500 metric tonnes. We want to intensify our work in this sub-sector so that every possible place that can produce fish and does just that. That includes Lake Mweru.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, it is exciting to hear that …
Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you once more for allowing me to rise on a point of order. On 9th October, 2013, a UPND member by the name of Mr Kayeya Kalombo died in Mulobezi after a beating by the PF District Secretary, Mr Peter Minginga, and PF youths by the name of Kalonga Litwaye, Musyalela Kabowa and Mwenda Kabowa, who are currently detained at the Sesheke Police Station.
Sir, this incident took place on 13th September, 2013. A few days ago, the UPND held a rally in Mandevu. Two days ago, the PF cadres, driving in eight minibuses and two Toyota Hilux motor vehicles, attacked the homes of Haggai Mukuta, Patricia Mpundu, Elizabeth Zulu and Mwiche Bwalya whom they identified as the persons who were the hosts for the preparations of the UPND rally which was recently held in Mandevu.
Mr Speaker, these people were badly beaten, their homes ransacked and a motor vehicle that was found parked outside one of these people’s homes was smashed and turned upside down. These people are now living in fear and are in hiding. The President of the UPND, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, will be going to Mandevu at 1000 hours to try to console these people.
Sir, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in order to keep conspicuously quiet when these atrocious and hideous acts of criminality are taking place against a backdrop of his President talking about peace and unity in this country, and also the hon. Minister of Finance talking about unity in this country as encapsulated in the theme of this year’s Budget? Is he in order to keep quiet and not address this House and the nation on these criminal activities, the insecurity and violation of the human rights of the citizens of this country that the PF cadres are perpetrating against innocent citizens of this country who are merely enjoying their constitutional right of association and assembly? I seek your serious ruling.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Members, as presiding officers, we should be understood in the right context. We should not be used to find out whether a ruling made on a similar matter was correct or not.
Hon. Mweetwa, in your first point of order, you talked about somebody having been beaten and that because of that three people are in detention, if I got you correct. On that matter, I cannot make a ruling because my understanding, according to the point order, is that those people are in detention. That issue will be handled by the courts. Has the issue you raised in your second point of order been reported to the police? If the matter has been reported to the police, then my ruling would be that we wait and see what the police are going to do. I am sorry to engage in dialogue now. However, I have to because I need to consult Hon. Mweetwa. Has the matter which has been raised in the second point of order been reported to the police?
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, the matter has been reported to the police, but no action has been taken.
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: Which police station?
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Kambwili, it is not time for you to ask questions. I was consulting because I wanted to get more information. So, my ruling is that if the matter has been reported to the police, we should wait and see what they will do.
May the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i, please, continue.
Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I was saying that it is very gratifying to hear that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock has a programme in place to restock depleted areas with fish.A programme has a starting and ending point. Could the hon. Minister inform the nation and this House when this programme will start and what measures the Government has put in place to cover all the rivers, more especially, those in the North-Western Province, Kasempa …
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Muchima: … in particular, where there is no fish completely?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the principle question was specific to Luapula and, therefore, our responses were specific. I gave a bonus response by indicating that we are going beyond Luapula and dealing with other provinces as well. I would like to suggest that we be given the opportunity to provide additional information when we are making the ministerial statement on the programmes of our ministry under the Budget.
Sir, I would like to assure the hon. Members of this House that no stone will be left unturned. No river will be left uncatered for wherever we can be able to produce sufficient fish stocks. It is a shame that we are importing fish as a country when we can produce and export it. This is what is contained in the Budget Speech which the hon. Minister of Finance delivered to this House.
Mr Speaker, I know that in the past there have been weaknesses and shortcomings which we are addressing so that we can make things better.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the restocking of fish is an old story. Fish has been restocked in Luapula Province before. I would like to find out whether measures have been taken to avoid bringing in stocks from China as we did in the past. There was a time when we brought in a type of tilapia which started eating our own fish. Thus, instead of increasing our stocks, it started depleting them.
Sir, has the hon. Minister taken measures to ensure that the fish which will be brought in will not end up eating all the fish which we already have?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I do not know where the hon. Member of Parliament got the information that we are importing fish from China to use for restocking. I never made such a statement. I have already stated clearly how we are going to do things. I further stated that given sufficient time, when we come to debate the allocation to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, we will indicate what programmes we will undertake in 2014.
Mr Speaker, if individuals fish without having any restocking taking place, then our rivers will be depleted.
I thank you, Sir
Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, fish restocking is very important, especially for some of us who come from lands that are surrounded by water.
Mr Speaker, will the Government incorporate initiatives in its programmes from private investors like Mpende Fisheries on the Lake Tanganyika, that are very advanced even in fish breeding?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, we are using all possible means and collaborating with many individuals. In fact, we want the private sector to be the prime driver of this particular program. We do not just want to deal with corporate entities. We also want to deal with individuals who have fish ponds as a source of food and income.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, fish restocking, logically, should be preceded by identifying and protecting the breeding grounds. If that is not done, the restocking will be an exercise in futility.
Sir, what measures is the ministry putting in place to identify and protect the breeding grounds for fish?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I have already responded to that question. Even though the question at hand is about Luapula Province, I have stated that we will attend to issues affecting other places as well.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, in addition to what the hon. Member for Bweengwa said, I wish to state that if we do not protect our fish we will end up restocking over and over again.
Mr Hamududu: Yes!
Mr Bwalya: Sir, what measures is the Government going to put in place to discourage the use of …
Mr Muntanga: Mosquito nets.
Mr Bwalya: … mosquito nets or other equipment that catch even the smallest fish so that we do not keep spending on restocking?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, we will provide that information when discussing the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock programmes for 2014.
I thank you, Sir.
RICE PRODUCTION IN CHIEF NTABU’S AREA
123. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:
(a) how many tonnes of rice were produced by farmers in Chief Ntambu’s area in Mwinilunga Parliamentary Constituency in the 2012/2013 harvest season; and
(b) how much of the rice at (a) was bought by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA).
The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, according to the 2012 crop focus data, Mwinilunga District produced a total of 42 metric tonnes of rice.
Mr Speaker, the FRA did not buy any rice in Mwinilunga District during the 2012/2013 marketing season because private sector rice buyers such as millers and others offered farmers nearly double the FRA price. The FRA rice price was pegged at K60 per 40 kg bag while the millers and other private buyers offered rice farmers a price range of between K100 to K120 per 40 kg bag.
Sir, arising from this situation in the market, the FRA did not manage to attract any rice farmer in the country and Chief Ntambu’s area in Mwinilunga District is no exception.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I have never seen a private miller buying rice in Mwinilunga. I do not know where these millers came from. Mwinilunga is a bush where there are no millers and if there is any farmer who grows anything, the only market is the FRA …
Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your follow-up question?
Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, may I know why the FRA is not buying rice in Mwinilunga.
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the issue of purchasing commodities other than maize has been a challenge throughout the country.
Mr Speaker, the price that was being offered for rice by the FRA has not been attractive enough for the farmers. I am not able to indicate whether a particular buyer went to Mwinilunga. All I have said is that the market conditions were such that the FRA prices were not attractive enough and so, we left the buying of the rice to the private sector.
Mr Speaker, we are reviewing the situation to ensure that we provide inputs and a market for all the products that we produce.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mufalali (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that there is high demand for rice by millers in Chief Ntambu’s area. Will the Government provide rice seeds for farmers in the area in this coming season?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, yes, it will. The material I supplied to this House indicates exactly that. This is why we keep saying that hon. Members should read the material we provide. If they do not read it, they will end up asking the same questions over and over again.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Konga(Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Mwinilunga has said that the rice which the farmers grew has not been bought by the FRA. Can the hon. Minister, therefore, indicate if this year, the FRA will go and buy the rice in Chief Ntambu’s area.
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I would like to encourage hon. Members of this House to approach our offices if there are particular challenges in their constituencies. It is not possible to respond to a specific request in the House. If hon. Members come to our offices, we can deal with their particular issues. As far as we are concerned, farmers faced no challenges in selling their rice in the 2012/2013 Marketing Season because the private sector provided a ready market. Please, hon. Members do communicate with us so that we can attend to your issues.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, rice production is not only important in Mwinilunga, but also in Kaputa. Knowing very well that the purchasing of rice has been a challenge for the FRA, are there any measures which this Government has put in place to allow farmers to add value to the product in their own localities so that they do not depend on the FRA to buy it from there?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, one of the major programmes that we are undertaking is to intensify the value addition efforts at every point of production. We will announce those programmes as part of our diversification efforts.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, despite the Government promoting diversification in the agriculture sector, marketing has been a big problem in the country. Rice has been one of the crops which farmers have been growing in places such as in Mwinilunga where they cannot find a market for it. Is the FRA going to consider improving the prices it offers for rice so that farmers are attracted to this idea of diversification and can run away from maize growing?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, we are not running away from growing maize. To the contrary, we want farmers to engage in the production of maize and other crops as well. That is what diversification is all about. Yes, we are going to review the market conditions and pricing of all the commodities. However, we want to emphasise the fact that we want the private sector to participate in the development of the agriculture sector.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, did the FRA visit Chief Ntambu’s area in Mwinilunga Constituency to offer their price for rice and the residents refused to sell it to them?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I am not able to respond to that question. I would like to encourage the hon. Member of Parliament to visit us so that we can provide him with the relevant details. In fact, I would like to encourage all hon. Members of Parliament who have specific issues on agriculture which they want to discuss to visit us. Please, come to our offices so that we can deal with your issues. There is nothing wrong with that.
I thank you, Sir.
Interruptions
Mr Mpundu: Mr Speaker, is the FRA going to buy sorghum during the next marketing season?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, sorghum, rice, cashew nuts, soya beans and cassava are the products that we intend to diversify into. We also want to intensify our efforts in aquaculture. These efforts will go beyond 2014. All these programmes require preparatory work. We have substantial amounts of support from the donor community for our programmes. After we have adequately prepared for our programmes, we will come back to the House for advice on how to implement them.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, what is the Government doing to protect locally- produced rice from imported cheap rice?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the protection of any commodity is dependent on our ability to produce it in a competitive manner. The issues of productivity and cost of inputs are major factors which determine the prices of our products. Since we are members of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), any protection measures that we undertake must be agreed upon with other countries, if they are for infant industries. We cannot just go out and make unilateral decisions that we will protect a particular sector without going through certain procedures. Our efforts are aimed at improving our own output in the first place and then overcoming the existing marketing challenges that I have already mentioned. I would like to assure this House that we are doing everything we possibly can do to ensure that we produce and process what we can locally.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the FRA only bought maize and not rice in the North-Western Province. Why have the small-scale farmers who sold their maize in the last farming season not been paid up to now? When is the FRA going to pay them?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, surely, that must be a different question from what we are discussing here.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that they are going to support rice production in North-Western Province this time around. How much seed has been sent to the provinceso far?
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I am not in a position to indicate the quantities of seed that may have been supplied to the province. I would like to also invite the hon. Member to our offices so that we can give him a proper answer.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, crop diversification will not be achieved unless crops such as sorghum, rice, beans and groundnuts are bought by the Government through the FRA. The information that is being given to us here is not going to the people who need it in the outlying areas such as Mwinilunga and Mafinga, who have no market for their millet and many other crops. Can the hon. Minister help us to ensure that the farmers get all the information they need to know on the type of crops they can sell to the FRA.
Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, it is our duty, as representatives, to do our part in terms of communicating Government policies to the people. I have already indicated that the existing FRA purchasing system does not support the buying of certain commodities. That is why I am saying that, going forward, our diversification programme will be such that the Government will provide inputs and a market for a number of crops. Beyond that, all the hon. Deputy Ministers of the ministry and I have been touring many places, including Mafinga, explaining to the farmers what the Government plans to do going forward.
I thank you, Sir.
LOGISTICAL SUPPORT FOR ITEMBA POLICE POST
124.Mr Mbulakulima asked the Minister of Home Affairs when the Government would provide a motor vehicle and other forms of logistical support to Itemba Police Post in Senior Chief Milambo’s area in Chembe Parliamentary Constituency.
The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, currently, the Government has prioritised providing support to the Mansa Police Station under which Itemba Police Post in Chief Milambo’s area operates.
Mr Speaker, you may wish to know that the police post in question, 72 km away from Mansa Police Station. The Mansa Police Station which is supposed to service this particular police post is equally crippled in terms of transport. So, the police are trying to provide motor vehicles for Mansa. Therefore, Itemba Police Post in Senior Chief Milambo’s area will only be considered for a motor vehicle allocation when Mansa Police Station is supplied with enough motor vehicles to cater for all the surrounding chiefdoms in Mansa.
Sir, regrettably, there has been not much logistical support to this police post and, therefore, we have requested the Mansa Police Command that has assured us that it is making arrangements to supply the police post with communication equipment and also extend patrol operations once the extra vehicle is provided.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister’s answer was almost perfect but, in some instances he diverted. He mentioned that Mansa itself is handicapped. How can a blind person lead another blind person? So, how do you expect Mansa to cater for Itemba Police Post when it is not properly equipped. Will the Government consider providing communication equipment to this important area which has over 25,000 residents?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, in my response, I indicated that we have prioritised Mansa Police Station under which this police post operates. So, in as much as it is crippled, it is not completely down. The only challenge is that it does not have enough vehicles in order to effectively provide services to all the surrounding chiefdoms in Mansa, including Milambo. As for the equipment, I also stated that the Police Command in Mansa is making arrangements to ensure that this police post is supplied with communication tools. We are aware of the challenges that our officers who are operating there are facing.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the problem of transport for the police is becoming a very serious one. I remember that at one time in the case of Kalomo, the hon. Minister had stated that we would be number four to be given motor vehicles although that was two years ago. When will the ministry start solving the problem of transport? In the case of Mansa, it should consider getting some of the vehicles that are at the headquarters so that they can be used there.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I stated that we had prioritised Mansa Police Station for the allocation of vehicles and not the post. I seek to be guided, Hon. Mr Speaker, because Hon. Muntanga is now trying to sneak in a question that is talking about Kalomo. I know that our police are doing everything possible to try to address the serious transport challenge.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
MUJILA MINI-HYDRO POWER STATION
125. Mr Katuka asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:
(a) when the construction of Mujila Mini-hydropower Station would be completed;
(b) what the total cost of the project was; and
(c) who the intended beneficiaries of the project were.
The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, the project is expected to be completed by 2015. It is expected to cost K105,032 which is U$ 20 million. The intended beneficiaries of the project include the following:
(i) Mwinilunga Town;
(ii) Mujila Village and Agriculture Centre;
(iii) Kanyama Rural Growth Centre;
(iv) Mapunga School;
(v) Nsweta School;
(vi) Kamanengu School; and
(vii) Kapundu.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, Mujila Project is adjacent to Ikeleng’i where there is another mini- hydro power station. Are there any intentions by the ministry to connect the two stations so that the area can be adequately catered for and we can do away with the diesel propelled electricity?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, yes, the Government will consider doing that.
Sir, however, I would also like to respond to Hon. Katuka’s question which he asked on the Floor of this House in which he wanted to know who the financers of the Kasanjiku Project were. This project will be financed by the Zambian Government, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). Let me also respond to Hon. Mbulakulima’s question in which he wanted to know the financers of the connection of the Luapula Province to the national grid. That project will be financed by the Acxiom Bank of China through a Chinese contractor by the name of Tibia. So, those are the answers to those questions.
Mr Muchima interjected.
Mr Zulu: Hon. Muchima, yes, we will carry out a feasibility study. We appreciate that good information from you. Let me also thank you for praising the ministry yesterday.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister inform the House …
Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of Order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to start answering the questions that he referred to as having been asked by some hon. Members when, in fact, they have never asked such questions on the Order Paper?
I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Let me take advantage of that point of order which seems to be an afterthought. In future, let us avoid opening a Pandora’s box. So, he is not in order.
Mr Konga: … and the nation what the expected output of Mujila will be?
Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the expected output will be 1.4 mega watts.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
_______{mospagebreak}
MOTION
BUDGET 2014
(Debate resumed)
Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to add a few remarks to the Motion on the Floor.
Mr Speaker, there are various reasons why people say a budget is either good or bad. For example if a tax threshold increases for workers, as has been the case for some Zambians, they will definitely say it is a good Budget. If certain incentives are given to businessmen, they will definitely say it is a good Budget.
I, however, want to look at this Budget from a national point of view because it is from this angle that we sometimes believe that the Budget is not good. I want to join my colleagues, who debated before me, in isolating my comments on the Budget from the hon. Minister, as an individual. I also agree that if there is one person in this House who does not know the divide, it is the hon. Minister of Finance.
Mr Speaker, we also know that being the great statesman that he is, there are times when he knows that a Budget is not good, but still agrees with colleagues that it is. We know what political pressure comes with the Budget.
Mr Ng’onga: Question!
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I want the hon. Minister to understand that when we look at the Budget and criticise or offer solutions we are only trying to help. This is not a growth- oriented Budget. The hon. Minister should understand the platform upon which the Patriotic Front (PF) came into power. The PF did not come into power in an ordinary manner. The PF came into power on the promise of total and unprecedented economic transformation. The people are, therefore, expecting high standards. The sluggish economic growth and bad governance are not what the people of Zambia were expecting.
Mr Speaker, allow me to comment on the Constituency Development Fund CDF). Before I do that, let me touch on what Hon. Dr Musokotwane said when he was Minister of Finance and what Hon. Chikwanda, the current hon. Minister of Finance, has said.
Mr Speaker, at the time we were changing the Budget Cycle in 2010, Hon. Dr Musokotwane, in his speech said:
“Today is a historical day for Zambia. Through a constitutional amendment, the Government has been enabled to present the National Budget in advance of the financial year. This landmark decision will ensure that the Budget is implemented over a full twelve month period”.
Sir, today, the hon. Minister of Finance on page 1 of his speech said:
“Sir, 2014 also marks the third year of the Patriotic Front Government. This administration is now well into its stride with concrete policies and programmes in place to accelerate broad-based growth, diversify the economy and entrench social justice so that all Zambians, rural or urban, male or female, young or old, including the differently- abled benefit from the national development.”
Sir, I want to link what Hon. Dr Musokotwane said in 2010 to the 2014 Budget. The date today is 18th October, 2013. What we thought would help by changing the Budget Cycle is not helping. Out of 150 constituencies, only fifty-six have been given the CDF.
Hon. Minister, I am proud to say that I come from Luapula Province and I want to join my colleagues that have already made observations. If I came from that right and said that I was proud, people would have said that I was being tribal or discriminatory.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Mbulakulima: I will amplify this when we come back from the break.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.
[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, we are getting used to coming late after tea break. Maybe, one of these days, we should propose to the Standing Orders Committee that those who come late should get half their allowances.
The hon. Member for Chembe may continue.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, before we broke off for tea, I was urging the hon. Minister of Finance to take keen interest in the complaints that hon. Members of Parliament have raised.
Sir, there are various types of discrimination. For instance, almost the entire North-Western Province has not received the CDF. The very few that have received the funds did so because of the by-elections that took place there. Others received it because their hon. Members of Parliament are Cabinet Ministers.
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
Mr Mbulakulima: It is the same thing with the Central Province. Only two constituencies have received the CDF, and not surprisingly, the hon. Members of Parliament are Cabinet Ministers.
In the case of the Northern Province, all the constituencies have received the CDF except for three which have strong Opposition representation.
Mr Ng’onga:Awe!
Mr Mbulakulima: You cannot say no or “awe” because this is the situation on the ground. This is why I am appealing to the statesman who is running the Ministry of Finance to correct the situation.
Mr Speaker, there are various types of corruption in real sense. What is happening with regard to the distribution of the CDF is corruption.
Mr Kaingu: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: Correct!
Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, if we followed this up, we could actually set up a tribunal. We need people like the late Dr Mwanawasa, who could suspend an hon. Minister over a weighbridge.
Is it a coincidence, Sir, that out of the fourteen constituencies in Luapula Province, only one, Chembe Constituency, has not received the CDF? These thirteen constituencies that have received the funds have PF representation. What sort of coincidence is this? Last week when the councillors in my area met to discuss the CDF, they could not because it was not there. What I want is when the hon. Minister comes to respond to give me an answer on why that is the case. I do not want that bad voice and bad English from the lady.
Laughter
Mr Mbulakulima: I want a statesman to indicate to me what kind of discrimination this is? How else can I describe this behavior apart from saying that it is foolishness.
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! That is not allowed. Can you withdraw that word and use another term.
Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, I withdraw that statement. However, I wish to state that it is unacceptable to any reasonable person for the CDF to be administered the way it is being done. Even in football, there are some professional and tactical fouls that we do commit in a subtle manner that are not as visible as the discrimination involved in the disbursement of the CDF. I want this Government to seriously look into this issue. We are actually aggrieved. This type of discrimination is like apartheid. It is pure corruption.
Mr Speaker, let me move on. I realise that yesterday the Hon. Minister of Youth and Sports mentioned how shameful the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) members should feel …
Mr Ng’onga: Yes.
Mr Mbulakulima: … that they are politically born again. Sir, as the wise people from the Eastern Province always say, “When you point a finger at your colleague, four fingers are pointing at you.” I want to believe …
Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise a very serious constitutional point of order. I wish to apologise to the hon. Member for interrupting his debate as he was debating very well. According to the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia to which we the Members, swore to uphold, protect and defend, discrimination based on any criteria, be it political, race, tribe or creed, is disallowed. Is this Government in order, through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, to discriminate against the Opposition by giving the CDF largely to constituencies that are PF and those belonging to its sympathisers who belong to the Opposition? Are we in order, therefore, even as a House, to continue to sit here when the Constitution is being abrogated? I need your serious ruling.
Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: The point of order which has been raised by Hon. Mweetwa even though important is based on his own personal interpretation of the Constitution and also on what has been done in terms of the distribution of the CDF. According to Hon. Mweetwa, there is discrimination and corruption in the way the CDF is being administered. Such statements make it difficult for the Chair to make a ruling. I only hope that as the time comes for the hon. Minister of Finance to respond or any member of the Executive, such issues can be responded to.
Can the hon. Member continue.
Mr Mbulakulima: Me Speaker, let me thank the hon. Member for Choma Central for reminding me that I was discriminated against not because of tribe, but political affiliation.
Hon. Opposition members: Yes.
Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, the matters at hand are serious and should not be underplayed. The hon. Minister of Finance comes to the House and …
Mrs Kawandami: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity. Is the hon. Member debating in order to claim that he is being discriminated …
Hon Opposition Members: Yes
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mrs Kawandami: Let me explain.
Mr Ndalamei: Keep quiet and sit down.
Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! I want to hear what the hon. Minister is saying so that I can make a ruling.
Mrs Kawandami: Sir,I know it is painful to be where Hon. Mweetwa is. I sat there over two years ago …
Interruptions
Mrs Kawandami: … and did not receive the CDF until we came into power. Mr Speaker, I come from the Copperbelt.
Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your point of order?
Mrs Kawandami: Sir, my point is that the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is very fair in …
Mr Deputy Speaker: What is ….
Interruptions
Mrs Kawandami: Sir, is Hon. Mweetwa in order …
Interruptions
Mrs Kawandami: Can you keep quiet!
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, I need your protection.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Members, you have given me powers to make decisions which include putting an end to the unruly behavior which is currently taking place. So, if I make a decision which you will not like, I am afraid you will have to understand why. Hon. Members we have to continue debating nicely despite the points of order which you have kept raising, some of which are very reasonable while others are, I am sorry, not. I may have to stop any points of order if I am being disturbed. I want to listen to the point of order which is being raised by Hon. Kawandami.
Hon Minister, can you raise your point of order.
Mrs Kawandami:Mr Speaker,I thank you for your protection. How can the ministry be accused of discriminating when distributing the CDF when I who belongs to the Ruling Party, have not yet received it?
Mr Mushanga: Kabwe also.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Let me say this hon. Members of Parliament. Since you are debating the National Budget, it is proper that you express your views as freely as you can. However, those in the Opposition should bear in mind that when the time comes for the people on my right, particularly those in the Executive to respond, they will also say what they think on particular issues. In light of this, it is advisable for those on my right to only listen to what is being said because they will also have an opportunity to be heard. If that is not done, the flow of the debate on the Motion of Supply will continue being derailed by the points of order which are being raised.
Please, continue, Hon. Mbulakulima.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, with that wise ruling in mind, let me also be wise by appealing to the Minister of Finance and the President to extend an olive branch to the Opposition Members of Parliament so that they can support the Budget. Those in Government should not think that Opposition Members of Parliament are naive. The West Africans say, “When you see a toad crossing the road in broad day light, just know that something is after its life.” When hon. Members of Parliament talk in this fashion, those who are in Government should take note.
Mr Speaker, hon. Members are confusing the people of Zambia by making comments such as the ones which were made yesterday that there were political born-agains in this House. As I said earlier, the wise people from the east say, 'When you point a finger at your colleague, four other fingers are pointing at you.” Most Zambians have phoned me to ask whether what we had in power is the same PF which they knew a few years ago. What has happened to them? Before they came into office, they were saying Zambians are suffering because the Government of the MMD was not collecting the Windfall Tax.
Mr Speaker, after getting into Government, those who belong to the PF have now somersaulted on certain issues. They are the people who were saying the Information Bill was supposed to be enacted into law because it was very important. Where are they today? They have somersaulted. They are the people who, yesterday, were saying that they were going to enact a people-driven Constitution. What has happened today? They have somersaulted. They are the same people who condemned the Chinese, but the first thing they did when they came into office was to fete them. What has happened? Zambians are confused.
Interruptions
Dr Kaingu: They are sinners now.
Mr Mbulakulima: There are political turncoats.
Interruptions
Dr Kaingu: They are sinners!
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, let me move on to another item. Let me borrow what one of the most accomplished debaters in this House Hon. Hamududu said about the economic foundation which the country had when the PF took over.
Mr Speaker, I want to state the reasons I believe that this is not a growth Budget and that the PF has not done what was expected of it.
Sir, when the people on your right took over from the MMD, they found certain economic fundamentals in place. The gross domestic product (GDP) had grown by 7.3 per cent and the inflation was at 8.3 from 16 per cent. The international general reserve was sufficient to cover about four months of imports, the exchange rate was at K4,700, and the domestic foreign borrowing was at 13 per cent with only a 5 per cent component of foreign borrowing. The external debt was at US $1.6 million.
Sir, that was the solid foundation which our colleagues found in place when they took over. As Hon. Hamududu earlier said, when the foundation is set, all you need to do is to start building upon it. The PF found a solid and strong economic foundation in place. We had liberalised the economy, privatised certain companies, upheld the rule of law, promoted good governance and implemented business-friendly macroeconomic policies. However, what is the micro-economic situation on the ground in the last two years that they have been in Government?
Sir, in 2012, the country did not attain its projected year-end inflation rate. To achieve real growth, the GDP growth rate should be above 7 per cent. That did not happen. The country needs to limit the overall fiscal deficit to 4.3 per cent and domestic borrowing at 1.3 per cent of the GDP. What happened? We did not meet those benchmarks. When we were in power, we maintained the international reserves to, at least, four months of import cover.
In 2014, the objectives include: to achieve GDP growth of above 7 per cent; create, at least, 200,000 decent jobs and attain year-end inflation of not more than 6.5 per cent. It is like they want to go backwards. Further, they want to maintain international reserves to over three months of import cover. They want to move from four to three months. They also want to maintain a physically sustained public external debt level so that debt service and amortisation do not exceed 30 per cent; increase domestic revenue collection to over 21 per cent; and limit domestic borrowing to 2.5 per cent.
For those who went for Zambia National Service training like Hon. Col. Lungu and me, we learnt two phrases ‘quick marching’ and ‘march timing’.
Laughter
Mr Mbulakulima: March timing is when you are marching, but are just at the same place. Frankly speaking, there has been no growth. The PF found a foundation laid, but all we are doing as a country is march timing. There is no growth.
Sir, the normal situation is that we expected the Government to grow the economy by at least slightly above 8 per cent as a starting point. However, that is not what happened. How can you say you have a robust economy when what you actually found is above what you are providing? I do not see the growth in the current system.
Mr Speaker, the Budget Deficit which is being introduced is dangerous for the country. I understand that, at times, a deficit is required, especially if you are financing the capital projects. What yields are we expecting from the capital projects? Of course, investing in roads is a good thing, but may not bring about the retains which we expect. I do not agree that the Government needs to continuously borrow from private banks. Borrowing from local banks should be left to our local people because they cannot go to the Africa Development Bank (ADB) and International Finance Corporation. Although the hon. Minister said that there will be an employment freeze in the Civil Service, I do not believe that will be the case because of the number of people the PF wants to appease.
Mr Mwale: Don’t Kubeba!
Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, I do not see how the economy is going to expand beyond the level at which it is.
Sir, in Botswana, from 1965 to 1990, the economic growth was above 8 per cent. That is why the country was rated as a middle-income country. Today, the economic growth of Botswana is slightly above 6 per cent. We have also recorded this and, as a result, Zambians who were crossing into Botswana and Zimbabwe have stopped because of our economic growth which is between 6 and 7 per cent. If we increase this economic growth up to 8 per cent, you will see people from Botswana, Angola and Zimbabwe crossing into Zambia. At the moment, we are march timing.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, what value have our colleagues added to the agriculture sector?
Hon. Opposition Member: Nothing!
Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, just like the MMD Government, they are also giving out four bags of fertiliser. However, their input distribution system is poor. Under the MMD, the country was producing above 2 million metric tonnes of maize, but now its output is way below that.
Mr Muntanga: There is no agriculture policy!
Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, the payment system is bad. Up to now, farmers have not yet been paid.
Sir, I thought that the PF was going to improve animal disease control but, up to now, no tangible results have been recorded in that direction. If you analyse the situation critically, you will discover that there is no development growth which has been brought about by the PF?
Sir, in terms of copper production, as the MMD Government, our aim was to reach 1 million metric tonnes. The PF Government is still march timing in that area. The output from the agriculture sector has gone down. As the hon. Minister of Finance responds, I want to come and indicate the developments which the PF can boast about.
Mr Speaker, the creation of districts is a good concept, but is being done in a hullabaloo manner. The MMD was creating districts in a systematic manner. Lufwanyama was a big area until when Mpongwe, Masaiti and the rest of the other places were created. Milenge, Mafinga, Mambwe and Mpulungu were all created systematically. The PF Government is going to have a Budget Deficit partly as a result of the creation of districts. It is not a bad idea to create new districts if it is done professionally. Professionalism would be the key issue. Before the creation of districts is done, we need to be told the population, economic requirements and vastness of the area. Chembe District was created out of a small piece of land, leaving out a whole huge chunk. Up until now, we have not even agreed where the boundary is because it was a political move that was made.
So, please, we are not against the idea of creating districts. All we are saying is that it should be done in a systematic manner.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister promised to create jobs in the public sector. If you talk about the need to employ teachers and nurses, in the manufacturing sense, you would say that there is a need for continuous production. There should be no end to the employment of teachers and nurses. They are now saying that they are going to create 4,000 jobs. Let them go and check the records so that they can see how many people used to get employed under the MMD.
Sir, when the PF took over, it replaced all the diplomats and District Commissioners (DC). How could that be called job creation?
Ms Kalima: Shame!
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, how I wish I had more time. Let me end here.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwanza: They will remember you!
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the Motion on the Floor.
Mr Mushanga: Luapula versus Luapula!
Mr Mwila: Sir, I wish to congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance on the Budget he presented to this House.
Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, This Budget has been well received by many Zambians.
Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, has appealed to all hon. Members of Parliament to support this Budget for us to move together and develop this country.
Sir, it is important for us who have been in politics longer to talk about where we are coming from, where we are and where we are going. The MMD was in Government for twenty years and the PF Government has been in power for two years. During the election campaigns in 2011, the PF made a number of promises to the electorates. It promised to create jobs, work on the roads, construct secondary schools and universities and put more money in people’s pockets.
Hon. Back Benchers: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, at the end of five years, the people of Zambia will judge us, in the PF, and not the noise makers.
Hon. Back Benchers: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Sir, it is the people of Zambia who voted for us and not any other person, and so, we are answerable to the people who gave us the mandate to rule. These people who put our party in office are seeing what we are doing. In twenty years, the people of Chipili never saw the Government construct a secondary school except under the PF Government. Chipili had one secondary school which is up to now being run by the Anglican Church. As I speak, the PF Government, through the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, has engaged China Henan to construct Mwenda Secondary School. The people of Chipili are grateful for that development. They have also started bush clearing and so, some people have been employed. That is job creation. What else do people want?
Mr Speaker, when the President officiated at the Umutomboko Traditional Ceremony last year, he promised the people of Luapula that the Government would construct Luapula Secondary School and a university. As I am talking, a site has already been identified and anytime from now, the construction of a university in Luapula will commence …
Hon. Back Benchers: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Sir, that is something that our colleagues who are making noise did not do. It is very shameful for some people to be making noise as I am talking. For the last twenty years, the MMD failed to take power to Chembe and Milenge districts, but are busy making noise. They were in power and did nothing to improve the lives of the people.
Mr Ng’onga: They were even hon. Ministers.
Mr Mwila: They were even hon. Ministers.
Hon. Back Benchers: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, it is important …
Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this rare opportunity to raise a point of order. Not too long ago, the hon. Member on the Floor was praising Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa for having put up schools in his constituency. How now can he have such a short memory and mislead the people of Luapula and Milenge in particular, that there is electricity in that area when it is not there? Is Hon. Mbulakulima in order to insinuate that the PF Government is taking development to Chembe and Milenge districts when all the projects that are there were initiated by the MMD?
I need your serious ruling, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: You know, the goodness with that point of order is that it is being raised by the hon. Member who spoke just before the one who is currently on the Floor. When the hon. Member was speaking, the people on my right quietly listened to the hon. Member’s debate.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Long live the Chair!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I do not want that long live.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: I think that it is only right and proper that those on my left should now listen when the hon. Members on the right are debating.
You may continue.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Ng’onga:Ema Speakers aba!
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, it is important for us to talk about the problems that the people of Chembe have been facing so that we can sympathise with the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe. We are talking about creating new districts, and for the first time …
Ms Kalima and Brig-Gen Dr Chituworose up.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. I have two people standing. Hon. Dr Chituwo you have the Floor.
Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I rise on this very serious point of order. Are the two hon. Deputy Ministers of Home Affairs in order to move from their rightful positions and debate while seated in the Back Bench?
Sir, I need your serious ruling.
Mr Deputy Speaker: What that point of order is aiming at is that if we have to consult, let us do so quietly.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
There has to be quiet consultation. Please, let us not consult loudly.
Hon. Member, you may continue.
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, you will recall that Nitrogen …
Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I apologise to the hon. Member on the Floor, whose debate I am enjoying. Is the hon. Member for Mumbwa in order to misdirect the Chair by insinuating that I have moved from my rightful position where I am currently speaking from? Is he in order to misdirect you and derail the important task which we are executing here?
I need your serious ruling, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: The serious ruling is that you are out of order yourself …
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: ... because I did not address myself to the fact that two hon. Deputy Ministers of Home Affairs had moved from their seats. My ruling was that, what that point of order meant was that we should consult quietly and not loudly. I did not agree with the fact that the hon. Deputy Ministers of Home Affairs were seated in the wrong place. So, the Chair was not misdirected.
Hon. Opposition Members: Long live the Chair.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Now, this is where I come in and use the authority you have given me.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: So, no more points of order.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may continue.
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, thank you for that ruling.
Mr Mushanga:Fulako ne jacket.
Mr Mwila: No, I cannot remove the jacket here.
Laughter{mospagebreak}
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I think people must appreciate the fact that in these new districts, jobs have been created. In Chipili District alone, 200 people have been employed.
Hon PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Sir, we are going to have new infrastructure in the newly-created districts. As we are talking, the contractor is on site to start building ten medium cost houses and people have been employed. What else are people looking for? That is what we are doing.
Mr Speaker, you will recall that the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambian (NCZ) was abandoned under the MMD Government. That company could not even produce D-compound fertiliser then. However, under the PF Government, the NCZ has produced D-compound fertiliser and deliveries have been made. The D-compound is in my constituency as I am talking.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Sir, urea is on its way to Chipili Constituency and so are the seeds. This is what we are talking about when we say the PF is delivering to the people of Zambia. That is why I said that it is important for us to talk about where we are coming from, where we are and where we are going.Two weeks ago, names of teachers that have been recruited were published.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Members on your left should not start leaving the House.
Laughter
Mr Mwila: Sir, a total of 4,500 teachers have been employed. Is that not job creation?
Hon. PF Members: It is!
Mr Mwila: Sir, that is what we are talking about.
Mr Speaker, let me now turn to the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. Again, the people of Luapula are celebrating because, for the past twenty years, the MMD failed to work on the Chembe/Mansa Road, which we are working on. The PF is also working on the Mansa/Kashikishi Road. The contractor, China Henan, is on site working on the Mansa/Luwingu Road. Another contractor is on site doing the Kawambwa/Mushota Road. What else do people want?
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Sir, we are also working on the Kalulushi/Lufwanyama Road. Next year we will move from Lufwanyama to Kasempa. The hon. Member of Parliament for Kasempa knows that. We are also working on the Chama/Matumbo, Ndola/Kitwe, Kitwe/Chingola and Lufwanyamaroads. Maybe, people do not know about this. They need to be reminded of what we are doing. We are also working on the Pedicle and Kasama/Mporokoso roads. The hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte can attest to this.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, we are also working on the Kafue/Chirundu Road.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Sir, the hon. Member of Parliament for Siavonga will agree with me.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Sir, we are also working on the Bottom Road.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
The shouting of ‘hear, hear’ is not supposed to be done in that manner.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: It appears you people want to make Hon. Mwila’s debate a bit difficult. Please, can you allow him to debate without interruptions.
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I now come to township roads. Three weeks ago, His Honour the Vice-President went to Mansa to commission township roads and the contractor is on site. Roads are also being worked on in Kabwe and Kapiri Mposhi. There are too many roads being rehabilitated that I cannot even manage to mention them one by one. Our colleagues in the Opposition know in their hearts that the PF is delivering to the people of Zambia.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: Question!
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, if you visited Ndola, you would find that there are contractors allover doing the township roads. Road works are also taking place in Kitwe’s Chimwemwe, Ndeke and Wusakile townships. This is also the case in Chingola, Chililabombwe and Mufulira. This is what the Zambian people want to see and not theories.
Mr Speaker, this morning, I asked His Honour the Vice-President a question regarding the conditions of service for our civil servants and public workers, which were very bad in the past few years. Through the leadership of His Excellency the President, we have reviewed the conditions of service for the civil servants and public workers. For the first time in Mansa, on the pay day, Shoprite closed at 2300 hours because people were shopping. We have fulfilled our campaign promise of putting more money in people’s pockets.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Sir, that is what we promised. On top of that, the hon. Minister of Finance has increased the threshold on Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) exemption from K2,200 to K3,000 …
Mr Habeenzu: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
My ruling was very clear. I said that I would not allow any more points of order on the person speaking.
Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, this increase on the threshold for PAYE exemption will benefit many workers. We promised the workers that we were going to adjust PAYE and we have done so. Someone talked about the wage freeze. This will not impact workers negatively because the change in PAYE next year means that all the cleaners and other workmen and women, those who get K3,000 and below,will not be paying tax. That is a benefit to the workers which must be appreciated.
Interruptions
Mr Mwila: Sir, those who have never sat at the negotiating table will question what I am saying even when what I am saying is the correct interpretation of the proposed tax measures. Further, since we have improved the conditions of service for the Civil Service, a lot of people are running away from the private sector to come and join the Government, which is the major employer in this country.
Hon. Opposition Members: No!
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: Sir, that is what is happening. Most people are leaving the mines to join the Public Service because the conditions of service have been improved. People must appreciate that.
Mr Speaker, before I end my contribution, I want to say that I was very impressed with the statement by the hon. Minister of Finance in his conclusion of the Budget Address. He said:
“Mr Speaker, it is only appropriate to conclude my address by paying tribute to our hard- working President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, for the inspiring leadership and vision he has provided since the inception of his administration”
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwila: The hon. Minister went on to say:
“Under the leadership of this great patriot who is focused, has undivided loyalty and love for his people, the nation’s development agenda has moved forward at a robust pace. We all have a duty to join hands with him to intensify our crusade against poverty.”
Hon. PF Members:Bwekeshenipo.
Laughter
Mr Mwila: The hon. Minister ended by saying:
“Our divergent views should never be a cause for drifting from our common purpose of moving the country forward and creating a society premised on social justice and prosperity for all.”
Mr Speaker, before I sit, I want to urge my colleagues that it is important that we move together and support this Budget. Each one of us was elected by the people in our constituencies and shall be accountable to them, at the end of the day. We can make noise here but, at the end of five years, the people will ask us how many schools we built in our respective constituencies.
With those few words, Mr Speaker, thank you very much.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to join the debate which is on the Floor of this House.
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I want to clarify one point. You see, hon. Members, you are good sometimes at misinterpreting the rulings of the Chairperson. I said that there will be no more points of order to be raised on the person debating. I did not say that there will be no more points of order …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
That was my ruling. You may continue.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, allow me to begin my debate this morning by reflecting on the statements that were given to this House by the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, on the occasion of the opening of the current Session of Parliament. He reiterated the need to maintain peace and unity in this country. This Speech was a precursor to the Budget Speech and the hon. Minister of Finance took that spirit when he stated that we have an inescapable duty to hand over to the next generation, this legacy of peace and unity that this country is renowned for. That expression found breath and is captured in the theme for the Budget this year which is “Moving forward to consolidate growth and social justice in peace and unity.”
Mr Speaker, I would like to spend a few minutes discussing the unity which the President talked about and which was re-emphasised by the hon. Minister of Finance. I would like to find out which unity the PF Government was talking about because we have an unprecedented scenario. For the first time in the political history of this country, we have a Ruling Party which is divided on tribal lines.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, for the first time, we have a Ruling Party which, within two years of being in power, is divided on tribal lines.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, what unity was President Sata talking about? What unity was the hon. Minister of Finance talking about?
Mr Muntanga: Mini Kabimba.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Justice, Hon. Wynter Kabimba, SC., has said that he is about to be hounded out of the PF on tribal lines because there is a tribal clique in the Ruling Party. It wants him out of the party after he helped usher it into power. What unity is being talked about in the two speeches?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, we also have a situation …
Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
A point of order is raised.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the Motion on the Floor is very clear. We know that our colleague is very interested in probably joining the PF.
Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, is he in order to take advantage of your discretion by bringing the internal matters of a party in a mischievous way into his debate? We are here for the sole purpose …
Hon. Opposition Members: What is your point of order?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, my point of order is that …
Mr Mweetwa: Am I being mischievous?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, is Hon. Mweetwa in order to start making insinuations based on alarming remarks bordering on tribal issues and hearsay?
Interruptions
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, is Hon. Mweetwa in order to continue in this fashion? I need your serious ruling.
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
The time will come for the people on my right to respond.
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Mweetwa may continue.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your wise guidance. What I am saying is based on the comments of the Secretary-General of the PF, which are in public and are not questionable. I am also discussing the theme of the Budget. However, I understand the constraints some of my colleagues face and, therefore, I am not taken aback by their approach.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I am not being mischievous. I am debating the national unity which has been the cornerstone of Zambia’s peace for forty-nine years.
Mr Muntanga: They do not want it.
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, thus, nobody should stand to question my debate when I am debating factually.
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, in addition to this tribal clique in the PF which wanted to hound out the man who took it power, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Imagine!
Mr Mweetwa: ... the party had so many secretary-generals when it was in the Opposition. The winning Secretary-General who took it to power is the one that it wants to hound out of the party on tribal lines.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, the statements I am referring to are from him.
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, for the first time, we have an hon. Minister of Justice who belongs to the Ruling Party telling the nation that the cadres of the Ruling Party are the most indisciplined …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: …in the political history of our country.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, therefore, what unity are we talking about here?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, in addition to this tribal clique wanting to hound out Mr Wynter Kabimba, SC., and others …
Mr Chikwandarose to raise a point of order.
Laughter
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, for the first time we have an hon. Minister of Justice and His Honour the Vice-President of the Republic…
Mr Chikwanda: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
A point of order is raised.
Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I want to protect the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central from destroying his very strong moral and intellectual capacity.
Laughter
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, is Hon. Mweetwa in order to speak about tribal matters when it is his party that has been agitating to have the Secretary-General of our party to leave because he is Sala when he is also Bemba?
Mr Muntanga: Is that so? Tell us!
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, yes his father is Sala and his mother is Bemba.
Hon. Opposition Members: Oh!
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, a number of us have been quoted as saying that we want to work against Hon. Kabimba on tribal grounds. How can we work against our own tribesperson?
Hon. Opposition Members: Ehe?
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to try to destroy his commendable base by being morally inconsistent?
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Let me guide you. The Budget Speech talks about the need for unity among all Zambians. So, when the hon. Member for Choma is talking, he is cleverly linking his debate about recent happenings with the issue of unity. That is why I have allowed him to continue talking. I know that when the time comes for hon. Members from the Executive on my right to respond, they can rebut what he is saying. How best they will do it in terms of the speech on unity, is up to them. With that in mind, let us listen to the debate of Hon. Mweetwa. Those on the right will have an opportunity at an appropriate time to rebutt what he is saying.
Hon. Member for Choma, you can see the controversy your debate is raising.
Interruptions
Mr Muntanga: They must be told.
Mr Deputy Speaker: You should tone down and stick to the Speech.
Please, continue.
Interruptions
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, in addition to the tribal division in the PF as espoused by their Secretary-General, for the first time, we have a Ruling Party where His Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Justice have come out in the public domain to tell the nation that their administration is infested with corruption.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: For the first time, Sir, we have self-confession and self-admission of corruption in the PF. Corruption is a danger to the unity of a country. We have seen people’s seats nullified, allegedly on grounds of corruption during the campaigning period. We have also seen former leaders and former service chiefs appearing before the courts of law because of their alleged involvement in corruption. So, when you see corruption being linked to the Ruling Party …
Mr Sikazwe: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Sikazwe: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to tell us correctly that His Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Justice have confessed that there is corruption in the PF without the Opposition taking the trouble of squeezing the two for more details because its role is to ensure that it provides checks and balances?
Interruptions
Hon. Opposition Members: Where should we squeeze!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Let us not use points of order in order to run away from what we are supposed to do.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: We are supposed to debate the Budget. So, let us not try to find an excuse for not debating the Budget. I think that these points of order sometimes only derail the focus of our debate.
Please, continue.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I was just about to show the linkage between corruption and unity. We have witnessed former leaders and service chiefs appearing before the courts of law because of the corruption charges leveled against them. However, no action has been taken to investigate the corrupt elements who are in the PF as stated by His Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Justice. How do we expect of those people who are being taken to court because of corruption allegations to feel? Is this kind of behaviour in line with the promotion of unity that the hon. Minister of Finance was talking about?
Sir, this is very saddening and serious. Do my colleagues in the Ruling Party not find it embarrassing for His Honour the Vice-President of the Republic of Zambia to say that those who want to hound Hon. Wynter Kabimba, SC., out of the party would like to immunise themselves against the forces of the law because they are corrupt? Hon. Wynter Kabimba, SC., said that his colleagues in the PF, some of them hon. Ministers, are pre-occupied with forming companies and irregularly awarding themselves contracts.
Hon. Government Members: Aah!
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, he also said that his colleagues are pre-occupied with flying around the country wasting tax-payers money. That is the money which this House appropriates.
Hon. Government Members: Aah! Question!
Mr Mweetwa: Look at them, Sir.
Laughter
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, where are we taking this country? These are important issues that some people are trying to trivialise. It is shameful that a party that came into power on the backdrop that it would genuinely fight corruption has, indeed, become a champion of corruption.
Mr Muntanga: Oh, oh!
Mr Mweetwa: They are confessing.
Mr Speaker, we are now wondering why even the Head of State has not taken action since his two most superior lieutenants have come out in the open and that some people within the party whom we do not know are terribly corrupt when he claims to be allergic to corruption. How can he be allergic to corruption when he is wining and dining with corrupt people?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I want to move to the next point.
Laughter
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, recently, the President of the United Party for National Development (UPND), Mr Hakainde Hichilema, travelled to Kasama at the invitation of Chief Chitimukulu.
Interruptions
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, I am still talking about national unity.
Interruptions
Mr Muntanga: What is your problem?
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, Mr Hakainde Hichilema was not allowed to meet Chief Chitimukulu because, along the way, he was blocked by PF hooligans.
Mr Muntanga: Militia!
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, on that day, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) news, made sad viewing for me …
Mr Muntanga: I was there!
Mr Mweetwa: … where instead of the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs talking about the criminal activities of those PF hooligans, she simply said, “We, as Bembas, are not going to allow anybody to destabilise our traditions.” It is a shame for an hon. Deputy Minister to say something like that. I think hon. Ministers need to know that they represent everybody. They are above being Bemba or the provinces which they come from. They are hon. Ministers who represent even us, the Opposition. How could an hon. Minister say what the hon. Deputy Minister said? This is really embarrassing. This is what the people of Zambia have gotten for voting for the people on the right.
Laughter
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I am very offended by the remarks that I want to join the PF. How can I join such a disgruntled party …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: … which is failing to deliver to the expectations of the people?
Sir, the point I am trying to make …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: I have already said, “Order.”
Please, let us not use the debate on the Budget to settle scores. Really, these battles that you are bringing in the House should be fought out there. We are going to turn the Chamber into a battlefield for political agendas which should be fought out there. Please, can we stop talking about politics now. Please, stick to the Budget.
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Can I ask Hon. Habeenzu and Hon. Mukata to leave the Chamber now.
Laughter
Mr Habeenzu and Mr Mukata left the Assembly Chamber.
Mr Deputy Speaker: I know how sensitive this matter can be, but let us discuss soberly. The moment we start dwelling on the happenings in our political parties, we are bound to derail the proceedings of the debate on the Budget.
Hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central, I know that you are capable of discussing other issues intelligently and not dwelling on the happenings in the other party.
You may continue.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your wise counsel. I will now move on and talk about the CDF.
Laughter
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, when the hon. Minister of Finance, whom I have tremendous respect for, talked about unity, it made me wonder which type he was talking about when a leader of an opposition party is given a no-go area indication …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I have said that we should move away from that. You started nicely by saying that you want to talk about CDF, but then you went back to what you were talking about before.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: Can you leave that matter and go to the next issue.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I shall now talk about the CDF.
Sir, I would like to state that in line with the unity which the hon. Minister of Finance and President talked about and, indeed, with our preparing ourselves to pass this Budget, the way the CDF is being distributed is extremely disappointing. I know that this matter has already been ably debated in this House. However, I still feel that it is important for me to also air my views on the matter because the CDF is the only fund which people at the grass roots readily appreciate in terms of the work that it does.
Mr Speaker, we have a situation, as ably observed by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central yesterday, whereby the CDF has been distributed mostly to PF-held constituencies. In areas like the Southern Province, they only take the CDF to a constituency like Sinazongwe because they have a surrogate hon. Member of Parliament there who is pro-PF. What type of leadership is this? In advanced democracies, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing would have resigned on moral grounds.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, I would be expecting too much if I started thinking that she can resign. Like they say in Bemba, pakwakana ubunga takwabansoni …
Laughter
Mr Mweetwa: … which means that when you are sharing something, you should be as bullish as you can even when you do not deserve it.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
Mr Mweetwa: Sir,is it not embarrassing that the provinces which are being ignored in terms of distributing the CDF are actually the ones which are contributing more to the revenue generation of this country. Examples would be the North-Western and Southern provinces.
Mr Speaker, we, in the Southern Province, feed this nation. Some of our colleagues here think mealie-meal and T-bone are manufactured by Shoprite. We power this nation. Without the power generation capacity of the Southern Province, the mines would not be able to function.
Sir, it is beginning to dawn on me why, without consultation, the PF is stripping the Southern Province of its economic generation capacity. The PF has added Chirundu to Lusaka Province and Itezhi-tezhi to the Central Province so that we can lack the necessary voice to demand for what belongs to us. I think they need to be ashamed. We are feeding them and powering the Nation, but when it comes to the CDF they want us to be at the tail end.
Hon. Government Member: Question!
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, theywere not voted into power to start discriminating …
Mr Mukanga: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order.
Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member who is talking about the CDF in order to continue to take the line he is taking when the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing had distributed a list of the fifty-six constituencies which were part of the first disbursement exercise? She also distributed a list of another thirty-six recipient constituencies …
Hon. Opposition Members: Where?
Mr Mukanga: … which favors him. Is he in order not to mention that and continue to use information which is out dated?
I need your serious ruling, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Additional information indicates that another thirty-six constituencies have received the CDF. We can take note of that information.
Mr Muntanga: Long live the Chair!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, let me end on a friendly note.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has announced a wage freeze in the 2014 Budget. This is what you can expect from people who used the slogan ‘don’t kubeba’ in their campaigns which, in the actual sense, means to deceive people. On one hand, they are purporting to have increased salaries for workers in the Civil Service and on the other hand, they place a wage freeze.
Mr Bwalya: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. His will be the last point of order on this speaker.
Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I am very thankful to you for giving me this opportunity to raise this point of order on the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central who is debating …
Hon. Opposition Member: Very well.
Mr Bwalya: … not very badly.
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, he has used phrases in Bemba which he failed to interpret correctly. Is he in order not to have done his homework by consulting those who understand that particular language so that he could get the clear interpretation of the saying “Pakwakana ubunga takwabansoni and don’t kubeba. Is he in order to mislead this country with his wrong interpretations? I need your serious ruling.
Mr Deputy Speaker: I am not conversant with Bemba so, I would not be able to tell whether what he said was correct or not.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: However, I do know that in Tumbuka, we have a similar saying that says pakugabana ufu palibensoni ...
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I believe that is what he meant when he said that when sharing unga there is no shyness. I think that is what he meant.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Long live Chair!
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your wise guidance and insightful knowledge about idioms.
Sir, my knowledge of Bemba sayings is very entrenched because my very close friend, Hon. Kampyongo, does tutor me in these things.
Laughter
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, let me end by saying that by increasing Public Service workers’ salaries and on the other hand, you place a wage freeze means that at the end of two years, in actual monetary value, what the civil servants now are perceived to have got an increment will be wiped out even before the end of the freeze. In other words, there is no real increment. This PF Government cheated the young people of this country that they were going to create jobs.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! The word ‘cheated’ is unacceptable in this House.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word, ‘cheated’ and replace it with ‘lied’.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
The word ‘lied’ is the same as ‘cheated’.
Interruptions
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word, ‘lied’ and replace it with “they did not tell the truth.”
Laugher
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, how can you create more jobs when you place a moratorium on employment and extend the retirement age.
Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! I ruled that there will be no more points of order.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, the people who are keeping time are stealing my time.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Please, just continue with your debate.
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, how can you create more jobs when you are going to have two years of young people graduating from higher institutions of learning who find no employment? When you look at the promises which the PF gave and will look at what it is delivering, you will conclude that its performance has been dismal. As we progress towards 2016, no one should be in doubt that the PF will be out and the UPND in.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Your time is up.
Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, I would like to start by joining other hon. Members of Parliament who have expressed condolences for the loss of our beloved late Hon. Sakeni. I also congratulate those hon. Members that recently won by-elections, Hon. Mtolo, Member for Chipata Central, Hon. Phiri, Member for Mkaika, the famous 9/1, and our sister, Hon. Mphande, Member for Mkushi North, who replaced my former neighbour.
Mr Speaker, I have been inspired by the theme of the Budget Address which was delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance to debate. The theme says, “Moving Forward to Consolidate Growth and Social Justice in Peace and Unity.” The part of the theme which says, ‘Social Justice’ inspired me greatly to come and debate this Motion. I was further inspired by a statement at the beginning of the speech, which talks about the PF Government’s total commitment to inclusive growth and social justice. The Budget Address takes serious cognisance of the need to be fair in the sharing of the nation’s resources. The speech takes cognisance of the fact that we are ‘One Zambia, One Nation’. The question is: Does the rest of the Budget Address attend to this theme of social justice?
Hon. Opposition Members: No!
Mr Simfukwe: Sir, when you are dealing with national matters, it is important to walk the talk. It is important that we put our money where our mouth is. The speech does not show any social justice in the way resources will be distributed in this country. When Zambia got its Independence, it was almost at the same time that probably ten other countries were being liberated. At that time, the colonialists would say, “Although we are giving these people Independence, they are not a nation, they are just made up of states.” We were just made up of states. We were not a nation.
Sir, our founding fathers, including our First President, Dr Kenneth Kaunda spent a lot of time and effort to create a nation. The slogan, “One Zambia, One Nation”, should not be taken lightly. That was the assignment that Dr Kaunda and his colleagues were given by the colonialists. They were told to create a nation because the colonialists just left a collection of states. This means that we were just a loose collection of groups of people, from the west, east, south and north. We needed to become one Zambia. A lot of effort was put in by these great leaders, most of whom I am glad are still alive.
Prof. Luo:Mbala Mafia!
Mr Simfukwe: Sir, I can hear my elder sister calling me a Mbala mafia. The Mbala mafias are part of this nation and must also receive their share of resources.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, in Mbala, equal sharing means, “chili chimwi.” I have also been told that in the Western Province, unequal sharing means, “kuketulula.” That is, being unfair.
Laughter
Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, in paragraph 95 of the Budget Speech, there is reference to fiscal decentralisation. This is the revolution that has to happen in this country. Referring to decentralisation as a way of impressing donors is not going to help us. This is the revolution that needs to happen. I am probably expecting too much to think that our Ruling Party has got the energy and the patriotism to go ahead and implement the Decentralisation Policy. This is a revolution which can take resources to the people.
Sir, every part of Zambia deserves an equal share of the country’s resources. The social justice which has been referred to in the theme will not happen because at the moment, over 70 per cent or, maybe 90, per cent of our money is for recurrent costs. So, there is very little left for actual project expenditure. Until we start controlling our recurrent expenditure and invest our money, there will be very little money left for social justice. What we shall have is only a Budget for civil servants’ salaries and for trips abroad. That means that social justice will not be our guiding philosophy.
Mr Speaker, we need to take the resources to the districts. In Kenya, it is included in their Constitution that a certain percentage which I think is about 15 or 20 per cent which they intend to increase has to be sent directly to the districts. We need to send at least 90 per cent of our Budget directly to the districts.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Sir, we live in different districts. Not all of us live in Lusaka. These resources are being wasted in Lusaka. They must go directly to Mbala, Mongu and Senanga. The people of Senanga should make a plan of how they want to use that money.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, that is social justice.
Mr Speaker, why are most sector funds budgeted for under headquarters of ministries? That is wasteful. If we want social justice, we should take most of this money to the districts. The people in the districts are better placed to know how much they would like to spend in the different sectors. The headquarters of ministries should not hold more than 20 per cent of the sector budget. That entails that resources are being concentrated in Lusaka and we will not achieve social justice this way.
Sir, in the United Kingdom (UK), there is a formula which they use to allocate resources. Where there are a lot of poor and old people and a lot of disease issues, they put more money. They usually allocate money equally among all the regions for their health facilities. This formula is aimed at creating equity and to ensure that there is social justice. In Zambia, resources are distributed in an arbitrary manner.
Mr Speaker, I have observed from the Speech that the Government is working on revising the Planning and Budgeting Act. This is an opportunity which the hon. Minister of Finance should use to decentralise our expenditure system. We should take the money to the districts. This Act should provide for that. We should not just implement the Act for the sake of pleasing donors. It should please us, the Zambians, to take resources to the districts.
Mr Speaker, I want to repeat what I have said on the Floor of this House that the provincial administration should be abolished. I am stating this as someone who once worked in a provincial administration. We must take resources directly to the districts.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Sir, there is need for the country’s resources to be shared equally.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, when funds are borrowed, they should be used to improve the economy. All Zambians, even those who are not yet born, will end up participating in the repaying of this money. Therefore, this money affects all of us. It has become very fashionable to spend borrowed money only in certain areas when it is going to be repaid by so many Zambians, including the unborn ones.
Sir, even when you look at the Eurobond, you will realise that it is being used for implementing projects that are in Lusaka. It has nothing to do with what is happening in Mbala. We need to allocate a portion to different districts. Although we shall all be contributing to the repayment of this money, probably, not even one ngwee will end up in Mbala. That is not social justice. We are now talking about borrowing a huge amount of money in the 2014 Budget which is amounting to almost K70 million per constituency. Unfortunately, very little of this money will get to the different constituencies. The equity and social justice in the way we are borrowing funds and sharing resources is missing in the Budget Speech.
Mr Speaker, I have noticed that there is an emphasis to fund new districts. Even though I support the creation of more districts, I still want to state that we need to take note of the point that some of the so-called old districts have not received development support for many years. Mbala, which is an old district, has had no secondary school since the 1960’s. Chinsali is lucky because it is now a provincial centre. It was one of the most underdeveloped districts in the Northern Province, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: … but it is an old district. So, the concept that only new districts need development needs to be discarded. If we do not discard it, we are going to be misallocating resources and will not promote social justice. We learnt that there is no police station in Mwandi, where my vice-president comes from.
Dr Kaingu: There is nothing.
Mr Simfukwe: Sir, that is an old district. We should continue to distribute resources equally even as we continue to create new districts.
Sir, while I am still on the issue of sharing resources equally, I want to state that even appointments to senior Government positions need to be made in a just manner. The complaints that only people from a certain tribe are appointed to top Government positions should not be washed away. The complaints should be reflected on. If the PF does not know how to rectify the problem, it should consult Dr Kaunda. He ruled this country for twenty-seven years.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Sir, let us promote social justice which will make us rebuild a nation. Right now, the little progress that was achieved to create a nation called Zambia has been lost.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Sir, there is total political, social and tribal injustice.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, you have learnt on the Floor of this House that Mbala has not received its share of the CDF.
Mr Mutelo: On a point of Order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
I was enjoying this moment because no point of order was being raised but, now Hon. Mutelo has raised one. In any case, you have your point of order, Hon. Mutelo.
Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much. I am sorry for interrupting the hon. Member who is debating well.
The President of the Zambian Chapter of the African Parliamentarians Network Against Corruption (APNAC) appealed to the Head of State, His Excellency the President, Mr Micheal Chilufya Sata, to dissolve his Cabinet because its Members are allegedly corrupt as confessed by themselves. Is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting in order to say that the APNAC President was wrong when he was appealing to the President, who is allergic to corruption, to dissolve his Cabinet in national interest?
I seek your serious ruling, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: There is no serious ruling because there are times when people express their viewpointsand these should not be taken for the truth.
Hon. Simfukwe, please, continue.
Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, Article 23 of the Constitution prohibits discrimination on the basis of tribe, race or even political affiliation. What is happening in Mbala is a total violation of our Constitution. The equipment of the Rural Roads Unit which is supposed to be shared amongst different districts has never entered Mbala.
Sir, two constituencies of the Opposition and another independent constituency in the Northern Province are they only ones that have not received the CDF.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: Sure.
Mr Simfukwe: Sir, the construction of Mbala/Nakonde Road has been going on for two years now. Works on some new roads, including on the Chama/Matumbo, Mporokoso/Kasama and others which are very important, are almost finishing and yet the construction of this particular road has not gone beyond 20 km.
Mr Speaker, this is a violation of the Constitution and a denial of the rights of the people of Mbala District.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Sir, I also want to comment on social justice in relation to tourism. Mbala is famous for the Kalambo Falls. There is absolutely no equity in the way tourism is being developed in this country. The Northern Circuit has been abandoned.
Mr Speaker, even a little change left over from the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) General Assembly can transform the face of tourism in Mbala. It can help us to improve the facilities at Kalambo Falls.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, we are crying for …
Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, you know that I only stand on points of order when I am compelled to do so.
Is the hon. Member of Parliament who is debating so badly …
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Prof. Luo: … in order to mislead this nation by stating that Kalambo Falls and other heritage sites in the Northern Circuit have been abandoned when my ministry has started developing the areas where Kalambo, Chishimba and Kalumangwe falls are found? Is he in order to use this august House, where we are supposed to give facts and say the truth, to mislead this nation? I need your serious ruling.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
The hon. Minister has adequately debated her point of order. Notwithstanding this, the hon. Member may wish to say something on it.
You may continue.
Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, without an access road to the falls, we cannot have tourists come in to view it. There have been no road works for many years in the area.
Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
No more points of order.
The hon. Member for Mbala may continue.
Laughter
Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, I want to comment on social welfare since it is a core of social justice. I support the hon. Minister’s indication in the Budget Speech that they will increase the allocation to the social welfare grant by 700 per cent. This, however, is not enough.
Mr Speaker, the Social Welfare Scheme is very discriminatory. There is poverty in all corners of the country. We cannot pick certain areas to support with cash grants and leave others out. It may be a pilot project, but it still needs to be nationalised. The little there is can be shared equally the country over.
Mr Speaker, we need to formalise this probably as a non-contributory pension scheme. Every Zambian, whether in the formal or informal sector must contribute to this economy so that when they reach sixty-five, they can receive something to keep them going. There is a need for non-contributory social pension scheme to be brought to this country so that we do not assume that it is the duty of family to look after the aged because it is not. Let us formalise this scheme and look after our people who have contributed to this economy beyond the contributory system.
Mr Speaker, I also want to comment quickly on agriculture. To eliminate poverty and create social justice, agricultural commodities need to have a guaranteed market and only the Government can do this. There is a need to have a floor price for all the cash crops. The beans which is grown in large quantities in Mbala must have a floor price. If the farmers cannot sell to the open market, let the Government buy that crop. We have to extend beyond maize. We must extend to other agricultural commodities so that every farmer will not be stuck with a commodity whether it is millet or cassava in their area. That is social justice.
Mr Speaker, I also want to talk about the jerabos. I want to look at angles regarding social justice. The jerabos are people who go and steal copper in the mines. There is need to …
Dr Kaingu: Which people are jerabos?
Mr Simfukwe:Sir, jerabos are people who harvest copper without proper licenses. We need to license small-scale farmers where they can get copper and go and sell.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simfukwe: Sir, we need to formalise that activity. This is their copper and this is their country. In Tanzania, people mine gold and sell it in the bank on a scale. We need to start taking care of our people and ensure that not only large miners must mine copper. Some of our copper is near the surface. We need to bring in co-operatives for mining. The jerabos must be given permission to mine copper. Give them small-scale licences and let them form co-operatives. Let our Zambian people stop stealing their own copper and start mining it.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I thought my time had been taken over. I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity. Speaking midway when men who are eloquent and with distinction have spoken, it becomes very difficult. One has to see how one can move around some of the points already made.
Dr Kaingu: Just hammer.
Laughter
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, notwithstanding all that, I will try to be very sober so that the message can get to where it is intended.
Mr Speaker, it is actually shameful that we have to talk about discrimination…
Dr Kaingu: Today.
Mr Simbao: … amongst ourselves when we are the leaders of this country. It is very shameful. When discrimination shows its ugly head, I think each one of us has a duty to see how we can put it down. It can only be done if we clearly agree that the problem exists. Mr Speaker, I do not know how bad it can get if this is not the worst.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: Sir, it is clear that Opposition-led constituencies are the target of this Government.
Ms Kalima: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the disbursement of the CDF has not been a problem in the past. A government is supposed to be blind to any form of discrimination. The CDF needs to be distributed to all the constituencies in a fair manner. What is happening is making me wonder if particular constituencies have failed to meet the standards that are required for them to receive the CDF.
Mr Speaker, how bad can a Government be to its own people? Why are the people of Chembe being punished for having voted for an Opposition MP. I find it very difficult to understand how Lubansenshi Constituency was left out in the same district where the other Constituency benefited.I do not understand how the people of Lubansenshi should suffer this discrimination for having chosen an hon. Member of Parliament whom they thought would serve them better.
Dr Kaingu: Even in Mwandi!
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, behind me, there is Hon. Chitotela who is talking about Hon. Mutati. What is it that Hon. Mutati has done to deserve to receive the CDF when in the Northern Province, …
Laughter
Mr Simbao: … there are four of us who are Opposition Members of Parliament who have not received the CDF. What is it that he has done? This is the question that Hon. Chitotela keeps on asking me.
Laughter
Mr Simbao: Sir, we want the Government to explain to us ...
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: … why it is discriminating even amongst us?
Mr Chitotela: Yes!
Mr Simbao: Sir, I feel sad when I think about what is happening in the Southern Province. We are creating a problem there. We are creating the problem fully aware of what can happen in the future.
Mr Speaker, on the Floor of this House, I once said that when President Sata becomes President, because I believed there was a God in heaven who could make anyone President of this country.
Laughter
Mr Simbao: Sir, in the same manner, there is nothing that can stopthe UPND from coming into Government.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: Sir, …
Dr Kaingu: What about us, the MMD?
Mr Simbao: ... no, I want to use the UPND as an example.
Hon. UPND Members: Yes!
Mr Simbao: Sir, we should not do things in order to punish a certain portion of the country. If people from that portion get into power, they are likely to do even worse things. We should avoid this kind of trend. So, I feel sad that …
Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this chance to stand on a point of order. Is the hon. Member debating in order to insinuate that the PF Government is punishing Opposition-held areas …
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Kambwili: … when almost the entire Copperbelt is led by PF hon. Members who have not received their CDF? Even I have not received the CDF. Is he in order to mislead the country like that? I need your serious ruling.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Simbao, as you debate, take into account the point of order raised by the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport.
Can you continue, please.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, thank you for asking me to continue.
The hon. Minister of Youth and Sport at one time used a saying that mwi nshinshya …
Mr Muntanga: … nshilanya.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: What does the Bemba saying mean?
Laughter
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, Hon. Kambwili explained what it meant when he used it.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: No, you are the person who has said it.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: What does it mean?
Mr Simbao: Sir, well, …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Simbao: … it means before someone starts to let things out, …
Dr Kaingu: To defecate!
Mr Simbao: … he or she must have a paper to clean himself or herself up.
Laughter
Hon. Government Members: No! Tefyo!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Alright, you may continue.
Laughter
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, in some provinces like Muchinga Province, all the constituencies have been given the CDF. In Luapula Province, only one has not been given. In the North-Western Province, only three out of twelve have been given.
Mr Speaker, this is worrying. What is really going on? We all know now that the North-Western and the Copperbelt provinces are the big money spinners in the country. Copper contributes 11 per cent to the country’s GDP. There is no other item that contributes that much to the GDP. Of this 11 per cent, almost 99 per cent of it comes from the Copperbelt and the North-Western provinces. Right now, the ratio is that the North-Western Province is almost becoming equal to the Copperbelt Province. So, how is it that only three constituencies in the North-Western Province can benefit from the CDF when it contributes so much to the GDP? Where is the motivation for the people where the copper comes from? What is there to show these people that the PF Government cares for them? I wonder what criterion is being used to distribute the CDF.
Sir, it is likely that all of us will receive the CDF, however, late. I would like to know the criterion that was used in the distribution of the first CDF. What is taking place is actually an abuse of Government funds. While I appreciate the fact that everyone in this country needs the CDF, I see the way its disbursement has been done as an abuse of Government funds. This is a stain on the PF Government, which will never be removed. The people of Zambia will forever remember how the PF selfishly distributed this CDF.
Sir, to rectify this evil, I do not know what we need to do. Maybe, the President must call for a day of prayer so that some of us who have not received the CDF can find it in our hearts to forgive those responsible for not disbursing it.
Mr Speaker, I am not very sure what the people of Mbala, Milenge, Lubansenshi, the North-Western, Central and the Southern provinces think.
Hon. Government Member: Copperbelt!
Mr Simbao: Sir, no, I do not want to use the Copperbelt Province as an example. Do the people from the areas I have mentioned not think that they are second class citizens? This CDF is very important.
Mr Lubindarose.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Reserve your point of order for next time.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, this money is very important. All of us here are Members of Parliament and we fight for this money for our people. The councillors are the ones who work with the people who use this money and not us. So, where is the problem that we should be denied this money?
Sir, I said in this House that, as the people from Mbala, we are considered inferior in this country, and some people were up in arms. What is the explanation for not giving us this money? This clearly shows how the leadership of this country thinks about the people of Mbala. As long as your name starts with the letters ‘SI’, then you are in trouble.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I feel sorry for the many people that have fallen into this snare. I feel sorry for my friend Hon. Dr Kazonga, who has suffered …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
(Debate adjourned)
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The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 on Tuesday, 22ndOctober, 2013.