Debates- Friday, 25th October, 2013

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DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 25th October, 2013

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

______

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to acquaint the House with the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 29th October, 2013, the Business of the House will commence with Questions to Ministers, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then the House will resume the debate on the Motion of Supply.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 30th October, 2013, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply.

Sir, on Thursday, 31st October, 2013, the Business of the House will start with Questions to Ministers, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Supply and the Expanded Committee on Estimates will present its report on the 2014 Budget. Then, the House will conclude the general policy debate on the Motion of Supply and resolve into Committee of Supply to begin the consideration of individual Heads of Expenditure in the Budget.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 1st November, 2013, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time, if at all there will be any questions. This will be followed by Questions to Ministers, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2014 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and the following Heads will be considered:

Head 01 – Office of the President - State House;

Head 02 – Office of the Vice-President;

Head 03 – National Assembly; and

Head 04 – Ministry of Gender and Child Development.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

MOBILE COMMUNICATION TOWERS AND MOBILE PHONE SUBSCRIBER IDENTIFICATION MODULE (SIM) CARD REGISTRATION

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for according my ministry this opportunity to issue a statement on Information and Communication Technologies (ICTS), specifically on the mobile communication towers and mobile phone subscriber identification module, known as the SIM card, registration.

Sir, I appreciate the honour given to me to inform this august House and the nation on the status of ICTs and the steps that the Government is undertaking to ensure that ICT infrastructure and services are made readily available to all citizens and businesses in all parts of the country at competitive and affordable rates.

Mr Speaker, the Government recognises that ICTs are an important enabler to build an information-centred society where everyone can create, access, utilise and share information and knowledge, leading to greater productivity, competitiveness and sustainable economic growth which is a pre-condition for poverty reduction.

Mr Speaker, ICTs are changing the way governments are functioning across the world. ICTs are driving significant changes at both micro and macro levels through increased effectiveness and the reach of development interventions, by opening up new markets, enhancing good governance and lowering the cost of providing basic social services. In view of the foregoing, I wish to state that this Government, under the leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, is committed to uplifting the socio-economic wellbeing of our people in all parts of the country.

In this regard, Sir, the Government intends to leverage ICTs as enablers of development. The Government is determined to see to it that reliable ICT infrastructure and services are available in all parts of the country at affordable rates to support the various socio-economic development activities.

Mr Speaker, allow me to give a brief history of the development of ICTs in the country. When we took over Government in September, 2011, there were 7,252,693 mobile phone users, reflecting a penetration of 54 users per 100 inhabitants. In terms of internet usage, there were 816,000 users, giving a penetration of 6 users per 100 people. Within the two years of being in office, there were 10,666,580 mobile phone users at the end of June, 2013, reflecting a penetration of 78 users per 100 people. There were just over 2,626,840 internet users, giving a penetration of 19 users per 100 people. This reflects an increase of 47 per cent in the number of mobile phone users and 221.9 per cent in the number of internet users. These figures are a clear testimony of the Government’s performance and commitment during this short period.

Mr Speaker, the Government regrettably notes that whilst the urban areas are reasonably covered in terms of ICTs, a significant proportion of the rural areas remains uncovered. This skewed level of ICT penetration has limited the pace of development interventions, considering the multiplier effect that ICTs have on the development of other sectors of the economy. In view of this, the Government is determined to see to it that ICT infrastructure and services are equitably distributed and are available and affordable for the greatest possible proportion of the population.

Sir, in this regard, the Government has continued to promote the expansion of ICT infrastructure to cover all parts of the country. In order to reduce the digital divide between urban, peri-urban and rural areas, and to promote the widespread availability and usage of electronic communication services throughout Zambia, my ministry, in June, 2012, issued Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 38 of 2012, the Information and Communications Technologies (Universal Access) Regulation 2012. The SI provides a framework for designating areas that have not been serviced and the funding mechanism for the roll out of towers under the Universal Access Fund.

Mr Speaker, the Government has noted that part of the high cost of ICT services can be attributed to duplication of infrastructure amongst the operators whose costs are passed on to the customers in the form of high tariffs for the services. In order to accelerate the expansion of ICTs and reduce the cost of deployment, the Government, on 28th June, 2013, issued Statutory Instrument No. 57 of 2013, the Information and Communications Technologies (Access) Regulations on Interconnection, Co-location and Access. This SI provides a legal and regulatory framework for interconnecting and sharing ICT infrastructure amongst the licensed operators to support growth of the sector by avoiding duplication of infrastructure and providing for non-discriminatory access to facilitate delivery of efficient and affordable cost-effective services to the customers.

Sir, it is expected that where towers and other passive infrastructure exist, and the infrastructure can accommodate additional loads, the infrastructure shall be shared and no new towers shall be erected. This will result in lower costs to the operators for rolling out services and maintaining the sites which should ultimately translate into lower costs to users.

Mr Speaker, following the issuance of the above-mentioned SI, the Government, in collaboration with mobile communication service providers, has endeavoured to accelerate the extension of mobile communication services to cover chiefdoms and areas that have not been serviced. Indeed, there is no doubt that extending ICT infrastructure to rural areas will have an enormous impact on the rural communities and the economy in general.

Mr Speaker, in order to facilitate the speedy roll out of communication towers and services to cover all chiefdoms, peri-urban and rural areas that have not been serviced, the Government, through the Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA), completed the tender process on 2nd October, 2013, and awarded the contract for the roll out of 169 communication towers to Huawei Technologies Company Limited at a contract value of K70.3 million. It is expected that by September, 2014, all the 169 towers will have been erected.

I wish to lay before this August House, the list of the 169 sites. I would like to mention that the Government will continue to survey other sites that have not been included in the initial 169 sites. The following is the breakdown of the 169 sites per province:

Province   Number of Towers

Copperbelt  11
Central 21
Eastern 23
Luapula 19
Lusaka 2
Muchinga 12
Northern 19
North-Western 26
Southern 21
Western 15

Sir, the objective of this programme is to roll out towers until all the parts of the country have been covered. Communities that traditionally travel long distances to communicate, whether on business or personal matters, will have instant access to communication services, thereby reducing the cost of travel and doing business.

Mr Speaker, allow me to touch on an important matter of the registration of SIM cards. The Government recognises the enormous convenience and flexibility ICT solutions such as electronic payment and mobile money transfer systems have brought to the general welfare of the citizenry. Indeed, mobile commerce solutions via the Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM) phones are increasing on the market mainly due to the convenience, flexibility and increase in the use of mobile phones.

Sir, customers are able to pay for utility services such as water, electricity or transfer money without having to go to the service outlets, thereby reducing the cost of doing business. However, the growth of e-commerce depends on good communication infrastructure and security of the systems.

Mr Speaker, in order to enhance the proliferation of mobile platform solutions to support businesses and the needs of citizens and, at the same time, protect the interest of the citizens, there is a need to enhance security of the systems through the registration of SIM cards.

Mr Speaker, I would like to mention that most countries have already introduced SIM-card registration. This entails the capturing of identity details of the person to whom the SIM card and number are assigned. Therefore, as one buys a SIM card, there is a requirement to produce valid national identification. In this regard, on 28th June, 2011, the Government issued Statutory Instrument No. 65 of 2011, the Information and Communication Technologies, Registration of Electronic Communication Apparatus Regulations, 2011. The SI makes it mandatory for the sellers of SIM cards and network operators to capture identification details of persons to whom a SIM card is sold and a number assigned.

Sir, in terms of implementation, all the three mobile service providers have commenced SIM-card registration. MTN Zambia Limited commenced SIM-card registration on 23rd July, 2012 and has, so far, registered 2.44 million subscribers. Airtel Zambia Limited commenced SIM-card registration on 31st August, 2012 and has, so far, registered 2.42 million subscribers. The Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL) was the last one to commence the exercise, as it needed to follow the necessary public procurement process through the Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA) to procure the necessary equipment. ZAMTEL commenced the registration of SIM cards on 31st October, 2012, and has, so far, registered 404,602 subscribers. This gives a total of 5,265,245 registered SIM cards out of a total of 10,666,580 active SIM cards.

Sir, it is a requirement, by law, for one to produce a valid national registration card (NRC) or passport to procure and activate a SIM card. An electronic communications service provider shall not provide, register or activate a SIM-card in respect of which a person does not provide the valid identification documents.

Mr Speaker, taking due cognisance of the law, the progress made so far and having due regard for rural areas, the Government has set 15th November, 2015 as the deadline, after which anyone procuring, selling or activating SIM cards, without providing valid identification documents, shall be liable for prosecution. Furthermore, I wish to inform this august House that the Government has set 31st December, 2013 as the deadline for the registration of SIM cards that are in circulation.

Mr Speaker, finally, I would like to take this opportunity to request anyone in possession of electronic communications apparatus that utilises a SIM card, but has not yet registered it, to register it with their electronic communications network or service provider to avoid being inconvenienced. After 31st December, 2013, any unregistered SIM cards shall be deactivated.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Mukanga laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the Western Province is one of the largest provinces in the country, but mobile phone communication is still very poor in many areas. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the criteria used and the basis for giving the Western Province an additional fifteen towers only or whatever they are called.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, firstly, we are going by chiefdoms and submissions that were made by hon. Members of Parliament. The areas have been surveyed and we know the actual locations. This is the first roll-out programme. Over and above the 169, there is a 15 per cent provision for areas which will not be covered. For the Western Province, we are going by chiefdoms.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, what is the nature of the relationship in this project between the Government, ZICTA and the network providers? I ask this because in the rural areas where the towers have been erected, we have failed to get quality service from any mobile phone provider. Can the hon. Minister tell us what the nature of the relationship is, and where we should address our problems.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the Government is erecting the towers which belong to ZICTA. The Government is funding the erection of the towers that will be used by the operators. That is the relationship that is there.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, of the twenty-one towers that have been allocated to the Southern Province, Namwala was given five. However, when ZICTA went to verify this, I was shocked to learn that four towers that were meant for the chiefdoms in Namwala were actually in Itezhi-tezhi District. Why were the four towers moved from Namwala to Itezhi-tezhi District?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we did not move any towers. We conducted a survey to see where the network was not available and erected the towers according to chiefdoms so that they are equitably distributed.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has given us one side …

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, in response to my answer, the hon. Minister …

Hon. Opposition Members: Your question.

Ms Lubezhi: ... stated that the towers were erected according to chiefdoms. However, the programme stated that the four chiefdoms are in Namwala District when they are actually in Itezhi-tezhi District which is not in the Southern Province, but Central Province. Is he in order to mislead us?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, let us not debate through points of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Hon. Member for Nalikwanda may continue.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has only given us one side of the ICT development in the country. Hon. Minister, how far have we gone in relation to the development of the ICT infrastructure, especially with the laying and extension of the optic fibre to districts and the under-sea cables?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I believe this statement is on a specific topic. However, I will come back to the House to give a ministerial statement on the optic fibre because there were many challenges in relation to it. For instance, there was debate in regard to who would run the optic fibre because both ZAMTEL and the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) have optic fibres. In view of this, we are trying to find the best way of running the optic fibre in the country for the sake of development.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, out of the 169 towers, twenty-one shall be put up in the Southern Province. I would like to know if Magoye Constituency, especially the Namaila Area where there is no network, shall benefit.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, since I have laid the document on the Table, I am sure it will be distributed to the hon. Members. However, I said there was an additional 15 per cent for places where no network towers will be erected after the 169 have been put up. We shall continue to erect communication towers until we reach the expected levels of performance in terms of communication. Therefore, Magoye will also be taken care of.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, we have a situation in Zambia where data bundles expire if they are not used within a given period. In other words, the internet providers have given the money that we purchase the bundles a shelf life. What is the Government doing to protect the almost 10.6 million consumers?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I did not know that data bundles had an expiry date. However, I will address this matter since it has been brought to my attention.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I was quite impressed with the hon. Minister when he said that he wanted competitive rates in the ITCs. One of the best practices in introducing competitive rates is allowing more players in the field. I would like to know if Vodacom will be allowed to enter the market because the rates are very high at the moment.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, although we are trying to address the issue of allowing more players to come into the market, it will not be Vodacom alone that will be considered. Why should it be Vodacom? We will try to open up the market at the correct time, especially after the migration to fibre optic has been completed so that we can have a lot of brands.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, there have been complaints of development going to Muchinga and Northern provinces only. Can the hon. Minister inform this House which province has the most towers.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate that question. However, if you look at the figures I gave, you will see that the North-Western Province has benefited the most.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the North-Western Province has benefitted the most while the Copperbelt Province has the second least.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I thank you …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You may continue, Hon. Pande.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the North-Western Province will receive twenty-six towers because there were very few towers before, and yet it is a big province. I am interested in knowing when the second roll-out programme will be because Kasempa has been left out.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the contract was awarded on 2nd October, this year and the contractor is on the ground. This contract will come to an end around next September. After September next year, there will be another roll-out programme. However, I am reliably informed that there is the mobile phone network in Chief Kasempa’s Area. Nevertheless, we shall also go to areas where the network needs to be improved and this will be after September next year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the Government’s intention is to avail the ICT services at affordable rates countrywide. How do you reconcile this with the statement by the hon. Minister of Finance that Excise Duty on airtime, both voice and data, shall be increased from 10 per cent to 15 per cent while, at the same time, you want these services to remain affordable?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the provision of infrastructure is not free of charge. We are trying to increase the tax base and collect the necessary taxes to run the Government. Nevertheless, the Government has decided to fund the erection of towers and the only expenditure that the operator will incur is the operation cost. By so doing, the Government is trying to reduce costs because, previously, it was the operator who invested in the erection of towers.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, the Western Province has the lowest number of chiefdoms, but the hon. Minister said that the ICTs will help to develop the area. How do you reconcile the two because, if you are going to distribute the towers according to chiefdoms, you are going to disadvantage the Western Province?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I said that after erecting the 169 towers, there will be an additional 15 per cent to fill the gaps and the Western Province will be considered among the beneficiary provinces.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, there are young people who own cellular phones and need to have their SIM cards registered. How will the Government capture those that are under 18 years who do not have NRCs?

Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Works, Supply, Transport and Communications in order to mislead the House by saying that the twenty-six towers to be erected in the North-Western Province are an indication that the province has had a big share of the towers when a comprehensive analysis, which was done in 2010, indicated that, among the six predominantly rural areas, the Western Province had an access level of 20 per cent, the North-Western  Province had 22 per cent, Central Province had 36 per cent, the Northern Province had 47 per cent …

Interruptions

Prof. Lungwangwa: … and the Eastern Province had 57 per cent. This indicates that the North-Western and Western provinces were way down the bottom of the list of access to the ICTs. Therefore, there is a need for equitable access so that …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can you make your point of order.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order not to distribute the towers equitably within and between the rural and urban provinces?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, address that issue as you answer the question by the hon. Member of Kaoma Central.

May the hon. Member for Kaoma Central continue, please.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, we have a lot of SIM cards …

Mr Kalaba and Mr Mukanga consulted each other.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You see, you are engaging the hon. Minister when he has to answer that question. Please, give him a chance to listen to the question so that he will not say he did not understand it.

Please, continue, hon. Member.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, I was saying that we have a lot of young people in the country who have SIM cards, but do not have NRCs. How will the Government capture these people in the SIM Card-registration programme?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

 As the hon. Minister answers that question, he can also remember to address the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Nalikwanda.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to address the point of order that was raised by Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa. I said that the North-Western province has been given the lion’s share, because it was on the list of the beneficiary provinces. We have calculated the percentages of the distribution of the 169 towers. Since hon. Members have been complaining that we have not been caring about the North-Western Province, we have reduced the number of towers to be erected on the Copperbelt Province and increased the number of those to be put up in the North-Western Province, and that is what is on paper.

Mr Speaker, coming to the issue of SIM-card registration for people below 18 years, I believe that at 16 years, one can get an NRC. I was of the view that parents would take care of the registration for their children. We shall, however, look at the issue of those below age.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, following the professional analysis by Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, Luapula Province is among the least developed provinces. I have observed that it is actually second from the bottom. Why are you not giving enough towers to Luapula which is impoverished? Do you have any intention of increasing the number of towers for the province in the second phase?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the correct position is that Lusaka has the least, the Copperbelt Province has eleven, the Northern Province has nineteen and Luapula also has nineteen. So, Luapula is not the second least, but third. However, our distribution was based on chiefdoms and this is not the end of the distribution. This is a continuous process and we shall do it quickly so that everybody can access the ICTs. It is important to move with the times. Even hon. Members need to move with the times. Everybody needs to use the ICTs. Things are changing around the world. Therefore, let us embrace this new technology.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda: (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister made it clear that he had already identified the contractor to erect the towers. Who is this contractor?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I said that we had already found the contractor, Huawei Technologies, which is the biggest ICT company in the world.

I thank you, Sir.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, the Government will spend money to erect the towers which are going to be used by commercial entities to earn their profits. Is the Government not subsidising commercial entities instead of subsiding the people?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the Government is investing in this infrastructure for people to have cheaper communication services. As we do this, the benefits will eventually spill over to the people and they will get cheaper services in turn.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that he was distributing towers according to chiefdoms. The hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala mentioned the allocation for chiefs in Namwala. Since you are distributing according to chiefdoms, why did you give the allocation for Namwala to Itezhi-tezhi?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we conducted a survey using satellite and have correct points where the towers will be erected. Since the hon. Member is talking about Namwala, maybe, I need to look at it specifically. If I was given specific information, I would have answered the question properly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, do you not think that by giving Lusaka two towers only, you are disadvantaging Rufunsa? What should we, in Rufunsa and Luangwa, do in order to have more towers because when I sat down with you …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The questioner cannot be heard.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I will repeat my question.

Lusaka has been allocated two towers only and I think this is a total disadvantage to the province. What should we do to get more towers? Rufunsa needs about ten and Luangwa District requires about five.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we have based the distribution on chiefdoms and we are not going to accommodate additional towers. However, we will only focus on core locations. Mobile phone providers will also add to the existing infrastructure. Lusaka is not disadvantaged. If there is a gap in the provision, then we will try to incorporate it in the 15 per cent.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, now that the hon. Minister is aware that we have a few chiefs in the Western Province and he has set aside 15 per cent for additional towers, will the whole of that 15 per cent be coming to us?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member would have loved to have all the towers go to his constituency if he had the chance, but we want to have an equitable distribution.

I thank you, Sir.

There were vibrations in the House.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we feel threatened by these vibrations. Can we have clarification so that we remain safe before an explosion starts?

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Are we in order to keep quiet without checking what is going on?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Chair is equally concerned.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: I have been advised that the elevator technicians are looking into the matter so, we are safe. We will be advised if they think that we are in danger.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, in Mitete, there is not even one tower. Akuna, …

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: … meaning that there is nothing. Are you considering putting up, at least, one tower in Mitete?

Mr Muntanga: Or half!

Mr Mutelo: Or even half, if at all such a tower exists.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is preaching to the converted. Mitete is one of the places that will receive towers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the towers will be constructed at the Government’s cost with the operators only incurring operational costs. Does this mean that we are going to see a reduction in tariffs?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, this is a deliberate move by the Government to put up infrastructure. Otherwise, there would have been an increase in tariffs.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I withdraw my question.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, before the Patriotic Front (PF) came into office, there was a plan to roll out towers which was based on surveyed needs rather than chiefdoms. However, the distribution has now been changed to chiefdoms, resulting in certain areas that were scheduled to have towers erected now being neglected. What is going to happen to areas where the operators dug holes to start putting up the towers because the plans have now changed to motivate chiefs?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I am not sure when this changed because the SIs were signed in 2011, 2012 and 2013. I do not know what other project was there. However, we shall check the records although, as far as we are concerned, there is no other project.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister be very categorical in answering the question. Are the towers that he is talking about going to be erected at palaces or around the chiefdoms?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we are interested in having a mobile phone communication signal so that people can communicate. When we say chiefdoms, we are looking at the place where we can get the best signal, but not necessarily at the palace.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, what is the radius per tower? I have seen towers which only cover a radius of about 7 km.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the radius depends on the height, location and construction of the tower, amongst other factors. Normally, the radius is about 5 km.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, from the twenty-one towers earmarked for Central Province, how many are you taking to Lwano District?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, those are details that I do not have right now, but you can check the document I have laid on the Table.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I am aware that when the service providers erect towers, they pay some form of fee. This fee is either for ground rent or land rates. Who will be paying for …

Hon. Mukanga looked the other way.

Mr Ntundu: Sir, the hon. Minister is not even concerned.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, he is listening. Please, continue.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Is it the service providers or the Government that will pay the land rates?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the Government owns the land and will be putting up the towers. So, there will be nothing like the Government paying rates to the Government.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for recognising the North-Western Province now. This is a good step.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Ask your question.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, borders are very critical and we need information …

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order not to answer the question that was posed by the hon. Member for Gwembe on the payment of land rates in relation to where the towers are going to be erected? We have seen owners of the towers paying rentals to the owners of the premises and not the Government. The question was: Who will pay the ground rates?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I thought that the hon. Minister said that the Government was going to pay.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, can you clarify that point.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the Government will erect the towers on Government land and the chiefs have already been consulted on this.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, borders are very critical for communication and the security of the nation. Are you deliberately considering erecting towers at border areas, especially Muwezhi in Ikeleng’i District which borders with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for appreciating that the Government is rolling-out programmes in the North-Western Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: He is my brother and we will try to consider what he is talking about.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, what is the ministry doing about the poor service that is provided by Airtel, where airtime is ‘eaten’ before one starts talking on the phone?

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I did not get the question correctly because the hon. Member was talking about talk time being ‘eaten’.

Laugher

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we shall ask ZICTA to investigate so that people get the best service. We would like all the service providers to give the people of Zambia quality service. That is why ZICTA has moved in and has been talking to the service providers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, is there an arrangement where ZICTA is going to own all the communication towers in this country?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we are trying to ensure that we own the communication towers. However, the towers that are in existence are owned by the service providers.

I thank you, Sir.

___________

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, thank you for remembering that I was the last one to …

Mr Deputy Speaker: You do not have to reveal that.

Laughter

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, you are on record as having assured the people of Lukulu, on the Floor of this House that, come 2014, the Government was going to upgrade the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road to bituminous standard. We have noted, with disappointment, that in the 2014 allocation in the Yellow Book, there is no provision for this road. Can you, once again, assure the people of Lukulu that you will stand by your word and that it is not another don’t kubeba.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, my understanding is that the financing of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Projects, of which the road that you mentioned is a part, is done outside the Yellow Book. So, I would advise the hon. Member to consult the hon. Minister responsible for finance or the hon. Minister responsible for roads after this session.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, some African leaders have complained that most of the leaders who have appeared before the International Criminal Court (ICC) are from Africa. What is the Government’s position with regard to the African leaders who are appearing before the ICC?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is a move afoot to take the whole matter from national level to the African Union (AU) and bind the African countries to a specific position on this. It is too messy to have every country writing its own position paper, so to speak. It will be dealt with shortly by the AU and that should clear up the situation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, the mining tax revenues to the National Treasury have remained very low. After two years in office, what is the PF Government’s position on this matter?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the position on this matter, as I am sure the questioner is fully aware, is that there are many capital allowances that are currently being claimed against and that a lot of mining companies are not paying full income tax at this point. However, we expect revenues to rise as we modify tax legislation and as these mines come to full bloom.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, may His Honour the Vice-President comment on the opposition political party leaders that participated before and on the actual day of the Independence Day Celebrations for this year and those that did not participate, especially those that boycotted.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, my friends on your left always think that these questions are planted if they come from this side. That is not a planted question. In fact, it is a very difficult question out of my reasoning. I was very happy yesterday to play host at the Lusaka Showgrounds to the hon. Member for Mumbwa and part of his delegation that came to attend the Independence Day Celebrations, where the stars were the freedom fighters band and the freedom fighters delegation led by Mama Kankasa and Mr Grey Zulu. I want to express my appreciation for their presence at the occasion. I want to say to the smaller parties that came as well that we should do it again next year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, out of the three bridges that I requested the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) to put up for us, His Honour the Vice-President once promised me that Kakenge Bridge was going to be built. When is it going to be built because the rains are on their way and there is still no crossing point?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, coincidentally, the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central has asked to meet with the DMMU after this session of questions. The hon. Member is welcome to come to my office and ask directly the people who are doing the job.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, hospitals and clinics are understaffed with doctors, paramedics and nurses. What will happen to those who will be graduating in 2014 since they will not be employed?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think this was answered in a statement by the hon. Minister of Finance. We are not failing to employ people who have applied for posts that have already been planned for in the 650 clinics that have been signed off on.

Mr Muntanga: Donchi kubeba.

The Vice-President: Do not say donchi kubeba, …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … Mr Kalomo. If I remember correctly, I think that matter has been taken up.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President if Zambia has demonstrated political leadership through its willingness and ability to articulate the National Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS) Health and Development Vision of 50 per cent reduction in sexually transmitted diseases by 2015, as encouraged among the Southern African Development Community (SADC) countries?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think we can actually boast of being among the leaders in the world’s fight against the Highly Infectious Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) and related illnesses such as tuberculosis (TB). I think a 50 per cent reduction in sexual transmission is what we have aimed for and expect to achieve. Our short-term target is to have a 50 per cent reduction in transmission by injection and a 50 per cent reduction in TB deaths. We want to completely eliminate mother-to-child Transmission of HIV/AIDS by 2015. We are also pioneering and moving towards a treat and test policy, especially in the area of maternal health where there are 1,000 programmes on the first day. We can boast of doing spectacularly well in this area.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the PF Government is failing to pay the chiefs their allowances, especially in the Western Province.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, from the information that I have, we are not failing to do that. However, if the hon. Questioner has better information, please, let me have it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President when the Government will release the Constituency Development Funds (CDF) for 2013 for constituencies that have not received it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Members: Today or tomorrow.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, they will receive it shortly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, Your Honour the Vice-President, when will your Government honour the promise to stop violence as witnessed in Mansa where your party cadres attacked the house of our party candidate?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, you are asking a question about our political party rather than our Government. However, the Government will stop it through the police who are authorised to do so. The police will be reminded about this, lest there be doubt on this question. Our cadres are forbidden to use violence, but that does not mean that you can stop anybody from getting drunk and occasionally misbehaving. However, between ourselves and the United Party for National Development (UPND), we can probably arrive at some more amicable way of doing business during elections. I hope that whenever we have a problem against candidates or other cadres, we can talk and resolve it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, may I find out from His Honour the Vice- President whether the Rural Resettlement Scheme is a deliberate or demand-driven programme?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am a bit baffled as to the difference between the two. We do what we can to get funding for these projects. We need more infrastructure and new areas, especially now that Lusaka and other urban areas are becoming quite congested. So, it is an important priority of the Government. However, we are not yet where we would like to be.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I did not indicate.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No.

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice President has just stated how, as a country, we have made considerable progress in meeting the targets on HIV/AIDS which is attributable to a number of stakeholders. I would like to find out when his Government is going to come up with a policy on caregivers who are a major component in the work of HIV/AIDS, TB and malaria. When is this policy on caregivers going to be formulated in order to recognise them?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we will be very happy to recognise anybody who has made any contribution towards this. If the hon. Member who is the former Minister of Health, a caregiver and achiever of note would care to come and see me, we can work out a way of doing this.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President assure the nation that the maize, which has been purchased, will not go to waste in view of the start of the rainy season?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we are working on that. This year, we expect the wastage to be much lower than last year in terms of percentage. We are aware of the problem and are working on it as hard as we can. We have about two-thirds of the maize in safe storage. The rest of it is in temporary storage, but we are moving it to safer storage.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the Government removed subsidies on fuel. Motorists are paying fuel levy and road tax, and now the Government intends to introduce toll gates. Where will the money that will be raised through the introduction of toll gates as well as fuel levy and road tax be going? Will it be going in the pockets of the passenger or not?
 
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, someone has to pay for the roads and the users normally pay for that. Traditionally, they either pay through taxation on the vehicle, fuel or specifically through a toll gate for the road on which they are travelling. These are the various options. We have chosen to go with the toll gate option. However, it must not be too expensive, but be in line with, for example, South Africa, which has just opened its first transit-tolling booth.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President why the PF Government has continued to parade Dr Kaunda who is a retired President …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mwanza: … at national rallies and involved him in running commentaries on people who are in the Government. Why is a former President being used by the PF Government?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, Dr Kenneth Kaunda is the founding father of this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: He has chosen to make himself available.

Interruptions

Mr Ng’onga: Ma jealous.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You asked him a question so, let him answer.

The Vice-President: For example, when I went to Nairobi, Kenya, for the swearing-in ceremony of Mr Uhuru Kenyatta, I took him with me. This is for the benefit of Zambia and not the PF.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Everybody there knew him and was pleased to see him. He gave us a high profile as a country.

Equally, which freedom fighter do you most expect to see on Independence Day, as long he is still alive? I am sure it is Dr Kenneth Kaunda. I do not parade him around and I do not think that my boss does that either, particularly at campaign rallies. It does not happen like that. He is our national treasure.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: If you ever come back to power, you can parade him too.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the PF Government has just signed a US$20 million contract to procure 50,000 metric tonnes of maize from Saudi Arabia.

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: I beg your pardon, urea from Saudi Arabia.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I need your protection from those high-level hecklers.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let her ask the question. The more you disturb her, the more time we lose. We have other items to consider and this question is for His Honour the Vice-President.

Hon. Member for Namwala, you may continue.  

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the PF Government has drawn a US$20 million loan from Saudi Arabia to procure 50,000 metric tonnes of urea from there and the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock said that it is a cheaper option.

His Honour the Vice-President, instead of promoting the economy of Saudi Arabia …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

What is your question?

Ms Lubezhi: Your Honour the Vice-President, would you agree with me that it would be cheaper for you to come up with deliberate policies in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to help agri-business have competitive prices in Zambia?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am a bit puzzled.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: The hon. Member for Namwala is right to say that 50,000 metric tonnes of maize will cost US$20 million. 

However, we are paying just under US$400 a tonne for urea from Saudi Arabia. Last year, it was over a US$1,000 per tonne, which is two-and-a-half times more than what we are paying this year. I, therefore, do not understand how I should answer the question, except to say that it is getting cheaper.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, other than Barotseland losing its £78 million treasury to this country, it contributed its manpower through Messrs Mundia Nalumino and Munukayumbwa Sipalo.

The Southern and North-Western provinces also contributed through Mr Elijah Mudenda and Dr Matoka respectively. What criteria did you use to name a university after a little-known church cleaner?

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the questioner is being sarcastic by identifying individuals and their biographies in an unreliable-sounding way. I did not quite catch “the little- known church cleaner” he referred to. 

Dr Kaingu: Paul Mushindo.

Mr Mwila: He was a worker in the house of God.

Laughter

The Vice-President: We can argue until the cows come home or until the clock winds down to zero. The questioner would need to provide more information for me to answer that question.

I thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, for some time now, His Honour the Vice-President’s Office and the Ministry of Youth and Sport have had one Deputy Minister each. During this period, there has been no notable difference in the way these two institutions are being run.

 Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether this is not an indication that this Government has too many officers at taxpayers’ expense and that it is high time they owned-up to this fact because they now have an example that they still can serve. His Honour the Vice-President, what is your comment on this, especially that there is a moratorium on wages?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not think that a casual observation of the productivity of the Office of the Vice-President or the Ministry of Youth and Sport can be counted upon to prove that you only need one deputy. It does not prove anything.

The questioner is well aware that this is a broader issue that has quite a lot to do with numbers of members of different political parties in this House and the way that we have to ensure stability in the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mphande (Mkushi North): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President indicate to this House the performance of the kwacha in the last six months? Is it true that the kwacha has strengthened and become stable in the last six months? His Honour the Vice-President, I seek your clarification.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for that friendly question.

Laughter

The Vice-President: The kwacha is relatively stable compared to some currencies that can be named. It is an open market and the world changes money all the time. People move in and out of the kwacha. They also move in and out of dollars and Euros, speculatively. The kwacha, however, has been very stable, both against the rand, which is more relevant most of the time than the dollar, but also against the dollar.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President aware that there is a hunger crisis in Sesheke? Are there any means of assisting the people of Sesheke before deaths are recorded?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the DMMU exists specifically to monitor, through partnering non-governmental organisations (NGOs), the food situation in all of Zambia. If, for some reason, it has missed a famine or hunger situation somewhere, I would very much like to know about it. The hon. Member can go to the office at the Addis Ababa Roundabout and make a report. There are always people there and it is a very simple matter to report.

Generally speaking, we do not take the District Commissioner’s (DC) or Member of Parliament’s word for it because maize is something that can be converted into money and we do not want any irregularities. Also, we want to tighten things up by identifying individuals who need food and not whole communities because we find that powerful people in certain communities tend to monopolise maize on some occasion. This has possibly delayed some of the action.

However, please, report to the DMMU. As I already said to another questioner, the unit is already in my office here at Parliament and you are welcome, when we take a break, to come to my office to sort out this matter.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, yesterday the First Republican President, Dr Kenneth Kaunda, described those that are criticising the PF Government as ugly and evil little things.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr L. J. Ngoma: He went on to say that those that are championing the cause for President Sata’s re-election in 2016 are confused and foolish.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether the PF Government is happy with such a stance. Further, why should the Opposition attend Independence Day Celebrations when such obscenities are being leveled against them?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am not sure of the accuracy of the verbatim account the questioner has given. The event he is referring to was a political rally after the Independence Day Celebrations. You should not have felt inhibited to go to the celebrations. I think, as a man well into his eighties, and who has served this country as President for twenty-seven years and was the First President, we can forgive a bit of colourful talk from him.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President why the PF and Mr Sata never attended Independence day Celebrations in the ten years they were in the Opposition and rudely denounced and despised the events. How do you expect the President of the UPND, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, to attend the events you never attended? What has changed? What is wrong with you that you are now flip flopping?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we are attempting to move to a situation in which we can distinguish our rights and responsibilities, as Zambians, from our rights and responsibilities as individual members of individual parties.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker that is why I have thanked the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) for attending the function we had yesterday, because it was very mature and friendly.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Take back to your president an open invitation that any time there is a national event, he can sit next to me and say whatever he wants to say.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President when the DC for Ngabwe, which was declared a district in April, 2013, will be appointed.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have no idea, but I would say soon.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, we just lost a train, which was valued at K18 million, in an inferno. Has the Government identified the culprits who failed to insure the assets and those who made the error which caused the fire?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think it is in reference to a subject on which the hon. Minister responsible gave a statement the other day. I think he did answer that question. The figures you are quoting are from the hon. Ministers statement.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the people of Chadiza are very worried about the civil war in Mozambique between Mozambican National Resistance (Renamo) and Mozambique Liberation Front (Frelimo). Are the people in Taferansoni …

The Vice-President rose to answer.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Your Honour …

Hon. Opposition Members: Tom and Jerry.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Your Honour the Vice-President, please, do not start talking before you are called upon to do so.

Laughter

___________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

POLICE PRESENCE IN GARDEN COMPOUND

141  Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) when permanent police presence would be established in Garden Compound in Lusaka;

(b) how much money was required to build a police station in the area; and

(c) what steps had been taken to combat the high crime rate in the area.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mrs Mwamba): Mr Speaker, you may wish to know that Garden Compound had a police station which was damaged by irate residents who fought running battles with the Zambia Police Force in 2010.

Mr Speaker, this gives me an opportunity to advise all Zambians that if they have any grievances against the Zambia Police Force, they should follow the laid-down procedures as opposed to resorting to violence against police officers and vandalising Government infrastructure which is to their detriment. However, the Government is partnering with the hon. Area Member of Parliament, Ms Jean Kapata, in ensuring that the police station is built. The Government is committed to providing security and maintaining law and order for the residents of Garden Compound. Land for the new police station has already been secured and construction will commence once all the necessary logistics have been finalised.

Sir, when this is done, police presence will be re-established in Garden Compound.

Mr Speaker, to build a police station in the area, a total of K1.2 million is required. The hon. Member of Parliament for Mandevu has given us K400,000, the balance of which will be taken care of by the Government.

Mr Speaker, the following steps have been taken to combat the high-crime rate in the area:

(i) conducting foot patrols;

(ii) enhancing motorised patrols; and

(iii) the Zambia Police working with the local community through the neighbourhood watch association to maintain law and order.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, Garden Compound is …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, is this Government in order to abuse former President Kaunda so much that he is now climbing the podium with his ‘four legs’. Is it in order, Sir?

Mr Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member who was on the Floor continue.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, I was saying that Garden Compound is just behind Parliament. Each time you tune in to the radio, there are serious complaints about the security situation in the compound. Is the Government not ashamed that people complain about security matters in the heart of the capital city?

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, earlier, I referred to the fact that there was a police station in Garden Compound. Sometimes, people become unruly and destroy infrastructure that is provided by the Government. We are working towards re-establishing police presence in Garden Compound. We are also cognisant of the fact that there are many criminal activities in places like Garden Compound. That is why we are concerned. The police station will be constructed very soon.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the residents of Garden Compound were made to contribute K20 each for the construction of the police station which has not been built to date?

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, we are aware. In fact, they raised K12,000 for the preparation of a place where the charcoal traders are trading from. The new police station will be where the charcoal traders are at the moment and the charcoal traders will be moved to a new place.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, has the Government taken measures to sensitise the people before the police station is built, lest the police station is destroyed again as you earlier stated?

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, ever since the plans to reconstruct the police station started, the DC and hon. Area Member of Parliament have had meetings with the residents to give them guidance on how they should conduct themselves. That is why we are advising the residents in places like Garden, Ng’ombe and Chawama to conduct themselves responsibly if they have issues to raise with the police.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, since Chipili also needs a police station, I would like to find out form the hon. Minister …

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order.

Sir, on Monday, your hon. Members, namely Messrs Likando Mufalali, Antonio and Sianga wanted to pay a visit to the detainees in Mwembeshi Maximum Prison. Upon arrival, they were denied entry to see the former Member of Parliament, Hon. Sinyinda and other youths from our constituencies. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in order to treat your hon. Members in that matter, considering their status of Members of Parliament, by ordering the Commissioner of Prisons not to allow them to visit their relatives in prison?

Is he in order, Sir?

Mr Sianga: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, are you able to give an answer to that question? If not, maybe, the hon. Member should file in a question of an urgent nature so that …

Interruptions

Mrs Mwamba: He should file in a question.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister is not able to give an answer now. So, can you file in a question of an urgent nature.

May the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili continue, please.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that it is not only Garden Compound that needs a police station, but also Chipili. What plans has the ministry come up with to construct police stations?

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, I think that is a new question. However, the Government is already making plans to construct some police stations across the country. Maybe, Chipili will benefit from the next lot.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that the police post will be constructed where the charcoal traders are. However, yesterday, the DC for Lusaka, Mr Kampengele, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right!

Mr L. J. Ngoma: … was adamant about the traders moving from that site. Can the hon. Minister indicate what the actual position is. Is that supposed to mean that the DC was speaking from the blues or that there is no proper co-ordination and consultation in this Government?

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member of Parliament for Sinda misunderstood …

Mr Musukwa: He was drunk.

Mrs Mwamba: … the DC’s statement. What he meant was that the charcoal traders will only move when the ablution blocks at the new place have been constructed. That is what he meant.

Mr Lungu: And they are being constructed.

Mrs Mwamba: They are being constructed at the moment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has indicated that the police station was vandalised by the residents of Garden Compound …

There were reverberations again in the Chamber.

Mr Muntanga: Chatalika alimwi.

Mr Konga: … can the hon. Deputy Minister indicate to the House and the nation at large …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can the hon. Member of Parliament for Chavuma start the question again due to the disturbances up there?

Interruptions

Hon. Members: Where?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Meanwhile, we are safe and the technicians are working on the elevator.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Konga: Thank you, Mr Speaker, again. The hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs indicated that the police station in Garden Compound was vandalised by the residents. Can the hon. Minister indicate to the House and the nation at large what led to the residents vandalising the police station in Garden Compound?

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, the residents of Garden Compound reacted when a suspect died while in police cells and the allegation was that he died at the hands of the police. So, they became angry and destroyed the property.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, my question is basically a follow up on the question by hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili on the issue of construction of police posts. As much as I am aware that we are discussing Garden Compound, this issue is of concern to many of us, legislators.

Sir, I have asked, on the Floor of this House when the Ministry of Home Affairs will come up with an infrastructure development plan so that we can all know when to expect this infrastructure to finally come to our constituencies. When will this be provided to us?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Lungu): Mr Speaker, I promised the House that, in consultation with the Police Command, we will lay before the House an infrastructure development plan relating to the construction of police posts countrywide. We will certainly relay the details of what we have planned on the Floor of this House.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Dr Kalila interjected.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I can see the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu East is not getting the answer, maybe, because of the loud consultations going on. The answer is that the infrastructure development plan is being prepared and, once it is ready, it will be brought to the House.

NEW DISTRICT IN LWELA

142. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Vice-President whether the Government had any plans of creating a new district in Lwela Area of Senior Chief Milambo in Chembe Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Mwango): Mr Speaker, the criteria for transforming an area into a new district are set out in the Local Government Act No. 281 and the Provincial and District Boundaries Act, Cap 286 of the Laws of Zambia. However, the House may wish to know that the prerogative for declaring an area a district lies with the President.

It is, therefore, not possible to state when Lwela Area in Senior Chief Milambo of Chembe Parliamentary Constituency will be transformed into a district.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I know that in Africa, we do not speak ill of the dead. However, when there was a by-election in this area, the late Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Sakeni, assured Senior Chief Milambo that the area would be turned into a district …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbulakulima: I am coming back after this.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, is it in order to boycott Independence Day Celebrations, which is a national day, when you are in the Opposition, and then when you come into power, you advocate for the attendance of the same.

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member for Chembe continue.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, …

Ms Imenda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health in order to come to this House wearing a maternity dress and to be walking about.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health does not seem to be wearing a maternity dress. I think she is properly dressed and I do not consider what she is wearing a maternity dress.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, I hope now I will be able to ask my question. Before the point of order was raised, I was saying that in Africa, we do not speak ill of the dead and that during the Local Government By-election in Lwela Area, the late Hon. Sakeni assured Senior Chief Milambo that this would be done contrary to what you have said. What is the position of the Government on that matter? Think about it clearly and take this message to the President.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, Hon. Sakeni, may his soul rest in peace, was not the President of Zambia at that time, and the answer to this question was very specific that the prerogative lies with the President. I do not know what the President is about to do about this if, indeed, he is about to do anything. So, I really cannot answer this line of questioning.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, I grew up in Luapula and I know Lwela very well. In fact, if the hon. PF Government Ministers were genuine, they would have advised the President that the best place to sit a district is Lwela …

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your follow-up question, hon. Member?

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, in view of what His Honour the Vice-President has said, is Lwela going to be considered as the next district and could the message be conveyed to the President?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if it makes the hon. Member happy, I will actually forward a transcript of this little session to the President to jog his memory. However, that is all I can do.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President has just promised to take the message to the President. When should we expect some feedback?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not believe that I said anything about feedback. How can I speak on someone else’s behalf? Hon. Sakeni cannot provide feedback nor is the President obliged to provide it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President has said that he will take a verbatim of this question to His Excellency the President. I would like to know when he is going to take this verbatim to the President so that we make a follow up.

Mr Deputy Speaker: It is not for me to answer.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, as soon as it is ready, and it happens, I will be visiting State House soon.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, when you go to see the President and he gives you an answer, are you going to bring back that answer to the House so that we know whether he has agreed to his suggestion or not?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I will send the hon. Member for Kalomo Central a note.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

CONSTITUTION-MAKING PROCESS

143. Mr Katuka asked the Minister of Justice:

(a) how much money had been spent on the Constitution-making process to date; and

(b) how much the total estimated cost to be spent up to the completion of the process was.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Deputy Speaker: Before the hon. Minister of Justice responds to the question, I want to say to the whips that it is becoming a matter of concern for us to always begin our sessions after tea break, two or three minutes late. Can we, please, be punctual for the meetings by ensuring that we return to the House as soon as the tea break ends. It has become the norm rather than an exception.

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution has, since its inception in December, 2011 to-date, spent K103,113,184 on the Constitution-making process. It is estimated that by the time the process is completed, a total of K115,113,184 will have been spent.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, which of the two Constitution-making processes, the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) and the current one, is more expensive?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the NCC was more expensive.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I understand that at the end of the whole Constitution-making process, K115,113,184 will have been spent. I would like to find out whether that money includes the holding of a referendum, which the people of Zambia want.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, that money does not include the referendum.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, if at all that money does not include the referendum and, if the people of Zambia decided that a referendum should be held, where will the money come from? Is that another way of buying time?

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kabimba, SC.): Mr Speaker, the money for the referendum, as anticipated under this process, will be sourced by the Government from the donors. The donors are very willing to be part of the process to ensure that it is adequately handled or catered for.

Thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, following the question of the hon. Member of Parliament for Nangoma, how does the hon. Minister know that the NCC was more expensive when the process being undertaken by the Government has not yet been completed?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, we are dealing with figures and figures do not lie. The figures are very clear. We have got the figures for the NCC and we have given the figures that presage the process we are now undertaking. So, it is very clear from the calculations that the NCC was more expensive.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the money for the referendum will be sourced from the donors. Is this part of the money which the hon. Minister of Finance is budgeting for in the 2014 Budget?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, there are a few steps that have to be taken in this process, before we get to its conclusion, that must be financed by the Government of the Republic of Zambia. After the conclusion and handing over of the Final Draft Constitution to the Government, there are other steps that will follow and that will be funded by the money that we are likely to source from the co-operating partners. So, I think there is a clear distinction between the two processes.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Sir, the hon. Minister, in his answer, has indicated that he has come to the conclusion that the NCC was more expensive than the process we have embarked on by just adding and subtracting. May he be kind enough to inform this House how much money will be spent on the referendum should it be found desirable.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, we have to work out a budget, which has a number of steps, for the referendum. However, I do not have those figures at the moment.

Thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, in determining the cost of the referendum, there are …

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. However, it is likely that this point of order is a follow up to the question you had asked, hon. Member for Siavonga. We do not encourage that kind of thing. If an answer is given, and you are not happy with it and want a follow-up question, you are better off asking somebody to ask on your behalf rather than doing it through a point of order.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I was saying that, in determining the cost of a referendum, there are different approaches that can be used. One is to compare the amounts utilised before and now. Another approach is to compare the amounts spent now against what the PF Government had said was going to be the approach, which was to refuse to participate in the NCC and just choose a few consultants to sit down and draft the Constitution. This was said to be cheaper. That being the case, would the hon. Minister indicate that this process is still cheaper when they have gone against what they had intended to do by repeating a lot of what was already done?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, this is a Government of the people and one of the underpinning principles of this Constitution-making process is that it shall be people-driven. So, along the way, the people have demanded how this process should be handled by the Government. All that the Government has done is curve in to the demands of the people. As a result, this has certainly made the process slightly more expensive than the route the PF had anticipated in its manifesto.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the Zambian people have been very categorical that they want a referendum. What is the position of the PF Government in this regard? Is it interested in having a referendum? If it is, when and, if not, why?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I am answering the question on the referendum probably for the tenth or twentieth time in this House. However, let me try to answer it again. The question of the referendum is predicated on the format of the Final Draft Constitution. If, at the final stage, depending on the format of the Final Draft Constitution, the people desire a referendum, then, we shall go for a referendum because, after all, that is what we have also said in our manifesto. However, there is also a possibility that we may not require a referendum, depending on the format of the Final Draft Constitution.

Thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister of Justice agree with me that had the PF participated in the NCC, the Government would have been in a better position, in terms of the technical know-how, to complete the Constitution-making process instead of wasting money now?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, life is never lived in the past. We are in the present now and we are moving into the future.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: So, I certainly do not agree that had we participated in the NCC, we would have been better off. After all, the NCC ended up producing nothing for this country.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: Sir, I was listening very attentively to the answers being given by the hon. Minister of Justice and he has mentioned, at least, three or four times that the referendum will depend on the format of the Final Draft Constitution. The word ‘format’ came up three or four times and, obviously, since I am not a lawyer, I would like him to shed more light on what he means by saying that the referendum will depend on the format of the Final Draft Constitution, for my benefit and that of my people in Lukulu.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the referendum question, the world over, takes the form of “yes or no”. So, we may have a scenario where we are subjecting the whole Final Draft Constitution to the public by simply saying, “Do you accept everything that is here by answering, “yes or no”? Alternatively, we may have part of the Constitution that may require going for a referendum while other parts would have engendered the consensus or unanimity that the country requires. So, it is in that regard that I have continued saying before this House that the referendum question will be determined by the format of the Final Draft Constitution.

Thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Justice reconcile his statement that the NCC produced nothing with the fact that 70 per cent of the contents of the Constitution that is being drafted now is actually drawn from the so-called NCC which produced nothing.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I am a little uncomfortable with the debate at the back by the hon. Deputy Ministers. Please, let the hon. Minister of Justice be heard.

Mr Kabimba, S.C.: Mr Speaker, I have not seen any NCC document which has been used in this process as a working document. To that extent, I am not able to answer the question from my elder brother on whether 70 per cent of what has been used in this process is from the NCC. What I know, as a citizen of this country, is that the NCC process ended and that it failed. That is what history has recorded.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Mwila sat in the wrong place.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can I ask the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili to go back to his seat?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Lukulu West may continue.

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

On who? He has not even started talking.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much …

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, on several occasions, you have guided us that we need to be factual in the way we present information in this House. Is the hon. Minister of Justice in order to mislead this House by saying that he has never seen the NCC document that was produced, when he knows very well that among the working papers that the Technical Committee on the Drafting of the Constitution is using, is the NCC document? He is the hon. Minister of Justice for this country, and yet he claims that he is not aware of the report. Is he in order to mislead us that way?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, as you answer the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West, you may wish to address that issue.

Can the hon. Member continue.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, of course, the thinking of Zambians is that the Committee that is working on the Draft Constitution should have consulted or seen the other drafts or Constitutions from the past. Can he confirm that the Committee did not see any other document apart from the one it is working on.

Laughter

Mr Kabimba, S.C.: Mr Speaker, there is a difference here in the roles that the hon. Ministers of Justice have played. My predecessor was a member of the Technical Committee on Drafting the Constitution. I am not a member of that Committee. Therefore, I am being factual by saying that I have not seen the NCC document because I am not a member of the Committee. My job, as Minister of Justice, is to guide the Committee on the policy of the Government with regard to the process, period.

I thank you, Sir.

_________

MOTION

BUDGET 2014

(Debate resumed)

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I want to start by congratulating the hon. Minister of Finance on the preparation and presentation of the 2014 Budget. It has never been easy anywhere in the world to present a Budget. The main reason being that the demands are normally far in excess of what is available.

Mr Speaker, what makes the job even harder is that colleagues, whether they are hon. Ministers or hon. Members of Parliament, feel frustrated that the hon. Minister of Finance is the one who delays their progress towards achieving their development agenda, but the reality is that funds are always limited and it is impossible to satisfy everyone at the same time. This reality is clearly understood in homes and families. However, at national level, the temptation is normally to ignore the fact that funds are limited. Arising from that, there is normally a lot of pressure on the hon. Minister and the ministry to spend even when the resources are not available. At the core of that pressure is us, the politicians. It is not the officials that we hire, but we, the politicians, that cause the deficit. In this case, if you have been listening, my colleagues have been saying that there is a lot of development taking place. However, why is the Opposition not seeing this development? On this side, we say that we do not see any development. Therefore, by definition, most of the pressure must come from that side to create the deficit, but we are all political leaders and must accept that the pressure comes from hon. Ministers.  It is only we, the politicians, who must remain committed to the idea of running responsible fiscal policies.

Mr Speaker, there is so much pressure that, many times, governments in the world are forced to spend beyond their means, resulting in deficits. The only problem is that everything is a cost. When you overspend, it does not take long before you create macro-economic instability. What do I mean by that?

Mr Speaker, in 1985 or thereabout, you needed K5 to buy a dollar. By last year, you needed K5,000 to buy a dollar. That is what macro-economic instability creates. In the 1990s and 1980s, we had inflation rates of about 10 per cent per month. Per year, it was more than 100 per cent and, sometimes, 200 per cent. That is what macro-economic instability is. In those days, in an attempt for the Central Bank to reign in controlling interest rates, they went as far as 50 per cent and 100 per cent. Those are all signs of macro-economic instability and the major drive for all this is excessive expenditure.

Mr Speaker, in my debate this morning, I am going to focus on the issue of Budget Deficit. What is it? What does it imply? Does size matter? What are we, as a country, going to do about this phenomenon that creates macro-economic stability?

Mr Speaker, I have chosen to deliberately focus on this issue because, somehow, we take it as an orphan. Actually, macro-economic stability is like an orphan. All of us here are Members of Parliament. We speak passionately about the need for money in our constituencies, but very few of us, if any, ever speak about what we are going to do to raise revenue. We focus more on spending in our constituencies, but are not interested to know where the money will come from.

Sir, the issue of macro-economic stability is like an orphan left to the hon. Minister and his officials to restrain all of us. So, today, I am going to speak on behalf of the orphan.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I also want to urge all of us, from now onwards, to realise that we have two constituencies. The first one is where we are elected from and the second one is the issue of macro-economic stability because, if we separate the two, it will not be long before we get to where we were in the 1980s and 1990s. So, the issue of the Budget Deficit is all our concern.

Mr Speaker, two weeks ago or so, we all read in the media that certain parts of the American Government were almost shutting down. What was the cause of that? This is because everyone there realised that there was a deficit that was unsustainable. Of course, there were arguments about how they were going to arrest this deficit. We do not need to get into who was right or wrong. I think what is important is to point out that our colleagues, there, and in many other parliaments, realised that the issue of the deficit is a common one for everyone. Similarly, I think we need to get into the way of thinking where macro-economic stability is not just left to the hon. Minister alone, but is something that we should all concern ourselves with.

Sir, let me now come to the Zambian situation. One of the issues that is going to be watched very carefully in this economy is that of the deficit. The hon. Minister, on Paragraph 77 of his speech says:

“Mr Speaker, 2013 has been a challenging year for fiscal policy, but important steps have been taken to address the policies that have created structural imbalances.”

Similarly, Mr Speaker, on the World Bank Website, there is a document entitled, “Zambia’s Job Challenges – Realities on Growth” which was published in October this year. It says:

“The 2013 Budget has come under stress due to several unplanned expenditure and the shortfall in revenue collections.”

Mr Speaker, you will recall that when the officials from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) were here, they issued a statement that clearly made the issue of the deficit a source of worry.

Sir, I must say that a budget deficit by itself is something that is fairly normal. For example, I decided to go to the website for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) because the data is presented in a friendly manner. On this website, some fiscal authorities have conducted a survey on budget deficit and surplus for 210 countries. According to that survey, only fort-five countries ran balanced or surplus budgets. For the rest of the countries and authorities, 80 per cent were running deficits. So, running a deficit is fairly normal, but we should not comfort ourselves with that alone because size does matter when talking about deficits. When it is big, it is a problem because it is better off when it is small.

Mr Speaker, the website that I have just mentioned shows that of the 210 countries surveyed, only seventeen or about 20 per cent had deficits of 8.5 per cent and bigger. More than 80 per cent of countries had deficits of 8.5 per cent and lower.

Sir, clearly, our deficit for 2013, estimated to be 8.5 per cent of the gross domestic product (GDP), is clearly out of line. I do not think we should be really surprised because the hon. Minister had planned for 4.3 per cent of the GDP to be the deficit for the 2013 Budget. So, the fact that he went up to 8.5 per cent shows that there is a problem.

Mr Speaker, in the last five to six years, on average, the deficit of this country, as a ratio of the GDP, has been somewhere in the range of 3 to 4 per cent. Now, we have deviated from that average, which we know has been responsible for the macro-economic stability in our country, to 8.5 per cent. So, there is a problem.

Sir, I am happy that the hon. Minister has been the first one to recognise this. What is he planning for 2014? For 2014, the hon. Minister is planning for a deficit of 6.6 per cent. However, he needs our support. I would have preferred something smaller but, I think, the direction that he is taking is the correct one. The important point that I want to make is that the hon. Minister requires our support to achieve that. I say so because, in 2013, we planned for 4.3 per cent, but the result has been 8.5 per cent. So, the mere fact that he says that next year it will be 6.6 per cent, does not necessarily mean that he is going to achieve it unless, we, the politicians, support him.

Mr Speaker, budget overruns tend to behave like viruses. If you create a budget deficit, you are planting the seed for future budget deficits. For example, many Bomas have been established and this requires money. This money is not just going to be required this year. Come next year, the Bomas will say, “Where is the money?” Come the other year, the Bomas, will say, “Where is the money?” It is just like a virus, is it not?

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we have created four universities. The construction alone is a lot of money. Come next year, the new students, lecturers and workers will ask the Government for money. Therefore, the Budget Deficit is like sowing a seed for more budget deficits in future. This is why the hon. Minister needs our support because, without political support, he is going to fail to reach the 6.6 per cent target. It may end up reaching 10 per cent or even 12 per cent. We are at a stage where we have to define our future.

Mr Speaker, this pressure comes from politicians, especially those from that side of the House. What will happen if the hon. Minister fails to control them? A deficit, by definition, happens because somebody is lending you money. If nobody lends you money, then it will become a balanced budget. The first thing that is going to happen is that we are going to keep on borrowing. Somebody said that the borrowing capacity of Zambia is sustainable. It may be sustainable for now, but the lack of sustainability is not an event, but a process. You start borrowing today and, before you know it, the virus sets in and you borrow some more and some more and so on and so forth. Before you realise it, you are back to where we were asking the white people for a bailout. We do not want that because I feel it would be shameful.

Mr Speaker, the other thing that will happen if the hon. Minister does not control his colleagues is that the Government will have to go and borrow more from our banks. However, you can only borrow more at the expense of the private sector. Therefore, the growth that you are talking about will not happen and the young people will end up sorting us out.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Sir, these people that we are getting this Eurobond from are watching the deficit very carefully and the World Bank has said so. It says that all the credit agencies are looking at Zambia negatively. It is there in the report and you can read it for yourselves. They are looking at us negatively because of the rate at which we have borrowed in a period of one year. There will come a time when they will say no to lending us money and, at that point, there are certain expenses that we will not be able to run away from. Then, you will go to the Bank of Zambia to start printing money, not the K3 trillion that my elder brother spoke about, but to …

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: … lend to the Government which is actually printing money. If this happens, then the inflation of the 1980s and 1990s, of 12 per cent per month, 200 per cent per year, and the exchange rate going up and down, will recur. I seem to be talking in theories, but the reality is that these are genuine things that we saw in the 1980s and 1990s. It was a long struggle to bring things under control and we cannot afford to do that now.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, we, clearly, have a fiscal problem. The hon. Minister is attempting to put it under control and we need to support him. There has been a lot of praise about the rebasing of the currency, but if we fail to control this Budget, then the zeros are going to come back and somebody will have to go through the process of stabilising the economy and carrying out another rebasing. The people of Zambia will end up saying that the PF likes the don’t kubeba.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Dr Katema): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the 2014 Budget.

Mr Speaker, in terms of macro-economic objectives and in line with the strategic focus of the Revised Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP), the Government, in response to the high unemployment, low incomes and consequent high poverty levels, will pay particular attention to job creation …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Is it not ironic that the hon. Minister is speaking and the hon. Members on my right are making noise? I find that very unacceptable. Can we, please, listen. By pointing out the people on my right, I am not saying that the people on my left should make noise. All I am saying is that the people on my right should listen when the hon. Minister is talking.

Can the hon. Minister continue

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, the theme of the Budget is, “Moving Forward to Consolidate Growth and Social Justice in Peace and Unity”. In terms of macro-economic objectives and in line with the strategic focus of the Revised SNDP, the Government, in response to the high unemployment, low incomes and consequent high poverty levels, will pay particular attention to job creation by investing in sectors with high potential in employment creation, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I do not think my appeal is falling on the right ears. Just a minute ago, I was asking you to keep quiet and, before a minute has passed, the same people on my right are making noise.

Can you continue, hon. Minister.

Dr Katema: … namely agriculture, tourism and infrastructure development.

In his address, the hon. Minister of Finance emphasised the importance of agriculture as the life blood for the majority of our citizens and its development cannot be over emphasised. The Government will promote a diversified agriculture, forestry and fisheries sector as pillars for consolidating economic growth in 2014. To this end, the PF Government will continue constructing multi-purpose dams and irrigation schemes to limit dependence on rain-feed agriculture.

Mr Speaker, the Government has increased the total allocation to the agriculture sector to K3.08 billion compared to K1.9 billion in 2012. Part of this amount will go towards countrywide construction of dip tanks, silos …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I did not mean to say that the people on my left should start making noise. Can the hon. Members on my left equally pay attention. We are disturbing the hon. Minister. In the space of five minutes that he has been speaking, I have intervened three times. Can we listen for once. This is a very important debate.

Can you continue, hon. Minister.

Dr Katema: … dip tanks and silos for which there is an allocation of K231.9 million. This will increase the number of dip tanks to combat animal diseases. K1 billion has been set aside to secure and maintain the 5,00,000 metric tonnes of strategic food reserves.

Sir, in 2014, the Government has also allocated K500 million for the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) to facilitate the provision of affordable crop and livestock inputs for small-scale farmers.

Mr Speaker, the Government realises that creative industries form a significant draw for Zambia as a tourist destination. To this effect, the Government is committed to developing the creative arts industry and the PF Government has already introduced the hologram to protect income rights of musicians and film makers.
 
Sir, in 2014, the Government will also complete work on the National Film Policy in order to grow the tourism and arts sectors and promote employment. The Government has allocated adequate resources to the expansion of tourism products and development of key infrastructure.

Mr Speaker, the Budget Address reminded this House that in the area of manufacturing, the strategic focus of the PF will be to promote the diversification of manufactured products, especially, …

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I have been listening very attentively to the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health’s debate and I was thinking that by now, he should have been talking about issues related to his portfolio. Is the hon. Minister in order to summerise the entire hon. Minister of Finance’s Budget Speech? Is he in order not to draw us to the meat of the matter in his ministry?

Mr Deputy Speaker: As you debate, hon. Minister, take that point of order into account.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, my ministry deals with poverty reduction and anything that touches on that is my business.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, with regard to infrastructure development, the PF Government is committed to investing heavily in Zambia’s economic infrastructure such as transport by connecting all provincial capitals and towns. The Government will continue to implement the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, Pave Zambia 2,000 km and Lusaka 400 km road projects that are expected to promote the development of local contracting capacity and to create an estimated 24,000 jobs throughout the country. In order to realise this, there is an allocation of K608 million in the 2014 Budget for road infrastructure.

Mr Speaker, with regard to social sector policies and priorities, the hon. Minister of Finance, in his address, emphasised the need to reform social sector policies and shift the Government’s focus from poor targeting to better designed social protection programmes that have been proved to be more effective in targeting the most vulnerable members of our society. To this effect, the Government will develop a National Social Protection Policy which will address the needs of the poor in our society.

Sir, kindly allow me to explain the hon. Minister of Finance’s statement on the social sectors. In the area of education, the Government will accelerate the re-introduction of the primary and secondary school system and increase the number of students accessing quality and affordable university and college education by expanding existing university infrastructure and continuing with the development of infrastructure at Chalimbana and Palabana universities, Paul Mushindo and Robert Makasa universities in Muchinga Province, Mukuba University and many other universities. In 2014, K8.61 billion has been allocated to the education sector compared to K5,626.8 billion for 2013. All this is a clear indication of this Government’s effort to provide quality education.

Mr Speaker, turning to the health sector, the Government’s aim is to improve on service delivery at all levels. The Government will procure specialised medical equipment and requisite supplies for tertiary hospitals to ensure that there is no interruption of services and reduce the number of referrals abroad. Further, the Government will continue investing in district hospitals, especially those that do not have first level referral services. It will also continue with its programme to construct 650 health posts countrywide. The hon. Minister of Finance has increased the allocation to the health sector from K3.6 billion in 2013 to K4.23 billion in 2014.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by focusing on social protection. Funding to the various social-protection programmes has increased. The Government has increased the allocation to the Social Cash Transfer Programme by over 750 per cent. This clearly demonstrates that the Government is committed to reducing poverty in the country. The increase in funding to the programme, from K17.4 million in 2013 to K199.2 million in 2014, will enable its up-scaling from the current thirteen districts, supporting 61,000 households, to fifty districts, supporting over 189,000 households.

Mr Speaker, some hon. Members of Parliament said that they would rather have job creation emphasised than social protection. Even in developed countries where unemployment is not so much an issue as it is in Zambia, social protection has a place. In developed countries, when professionals leave employment, social protection kicks in to support them. Therefore, social protection is an integral part of the equitable distribution of resources.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament said that Social Cash Transfer Scheme was a misplaced priority and that they would rather have employment only in their constituencies. My question is: What employment are we going to give to a ninety-five-year old man or woman who is keeping orphans? What employment are we going to give to children who are keeping fellow children in a child-headed household? What employment are we going to give to the severely disabled who are heading households? The Social Protection Policy is a very good way of equitably sharing the resources to the rest of the country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, allow me to also thank the hon. Minister of Finance for delivering a Budget whose theme is, “Moving Forward to Consolidate Growth, Social Justice in Peace and Unity” that he delivered in this House on 11th October, 2013. I must quickly apologise. I am not that well and my voice is not as clear as ever, but I will make a few comments in response to the provisions that the hon. Minister gave, as a working document for 2014.

Sir, the theme speaks about social justice which is a fair and proper way to administer laws and conforming to the natural law that says that all persons, irrespective of their creed, ethnic grouping, background, gender or possession, must be treated equally and without prejudice.

Mr Speaker, that having been said, it is also true that every end of a race is the beginning of a new one. The Budget that he presented in 2013 was also a very ambitious one. I wish that in formulating the Budget Law, we would also provide in that law a postmortem or review of the last Budget to see how it performed. Unfortunately, we do not have that in order to make the interconnections of what I said when I said that every end of a race is the beginning of a new one in order for us to understand how fast, slow or which direction a country is going.

Mr Speaker, today, I will just dwell on four of the social pillars that the hon. Minister and the President of this country always pronounce as part of the core programmes for the PF Government. These are health, education, agriculture and infrastructure. I will simply base my debate around these four areas. I will also underpin my debate by the fact that, many a time, the hon. Minister has indicated that all these socio-economic pronouncements that we have heard from Hon. Dr Musokotwane, for example, have very little meaning for as long as they do not translate into food on the table for an ordinary Zambian.

Sir, having said so, Zambia has appended its signature to the Maputo Protocol on Agriculture. At K3 billion, it represents only 7.2 per cent. Despite the fact that it may look as if it was doubled from last year’s Budget, it still falls far below the protocol that Zambia signed at 10 per cent. To me, I think that going by what the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health stated in his submission, agriculture is the life blood of any nation. I think that in future there is a need to try to meet those targets that we have set for ourselves as a way of alleviating poverty among our citizens.

Mr Speaker, while the hon. Minister requires support, he will probably need much more support in implementing the budget on agriculture. This is because, from past experience, many things have gone wrong in the agriculture sector where the policies have been haphazard, and the devil is in the details.

Sir, when we start looking at the Yellow Book, we will understand that the allocations have to be followed to the letter and not what happened last year. I will give an example of what happened in the first quarter of this year when the Government advertised a tender for the supply of fertiliser. Seventeen companies, some of them local and others foreign, put in a bid to supply this fertiliser. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock then was Hon. Chenda, I stand to be corrected, and now it is Hon. Sichinga. Several pronouncements were made, including the cancellation of those tenders for the supply of agricultural input, without a real reason. The tenders were re-advertised and the figures dropped from 67,000 tonnes, I believe, to 17,000 tonnes and it was decided that the ministry would import the commodity.

Sir, to date, we are still waiting for the fertiliser. The Southern Province is still waiting for the D-Compound and Urea fertilisers and, most of all, the seed. For farmers who had initially been put on the e-Voucher System in ten districts – I also stand to be corrected − this has since been cancelled. Effectively, this means that they are not on the data base for the FISP. That being the case, whatever Budget pronouncements that the hon. Minister had made according to that plan, have gone into disarray. That is why I said that the devil lies in the details of implementation. The rain has set in now and we still have not received the fertilisers. We may have normal, above normal or below normal rainfall patterns but, definitely, because of what has happened, the yield levels will be affected.

Mr Speaker, it will take a miracle for us to get a bumper harvest like we did when the MMD, who now call us their children, as I read in today’s The Post newspaper were in power. At least, they recorded a bumper harvest because they implemented what they planned. I do not necessarily accept that I am their child, but I think we should give credit where it is due. I want the hon. Minister to be firm on this. I know that he is prudent and able to listen and to guide. Despite his having lived on this earth longer than me, he also listens to advice. What happened in the agro sector this year should not repeat itself.

Sir, moving on to the health sector, the Abuja Protocol on Health demands that 15 per cent of the Annual Budget should be allocated to the health. The PF has since unveiled a Budget 10 per cent of which is towards the health sector. In the midst of epidemics, and we are at 5 per cent below the threshold, the hon. Minister with his team can do much better in addressing this issue that I will refer to as a deficit in the threshold of the protocol that most African countries are striving to achieve.

Sir, let me talk about the issue of education which is another pillar. As a way of paying attention to what I am about to say, I can see that the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education has closed his eyes, just like I was paying attention when the hon. Minister was delivering his speech. He is paying attention to what I am about to say. Well done, Sir, because you have beaten the threshold. That notwithstanding, I want you to know that a country’s foundation is based on a yam. Some of you from the north say that imiti ikula e mpanga.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mwewa: What does that mean?

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, it means that trees that are still growing will eventually turn into a forest.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: That is my understanding.

Sir, there are going to be universities such as Paul Mushindo, Palabana, the one to be constructed in Chinsali, Robert Makasa and Chalimbana. You have overloaded the tertiary sector with universities, but have neglected the elementary and secondary education. I was of the view that you should have taken a pyramidal structure and invested money in elementary and secondary education. You have clearly neglected that in this Budget. You need to listen.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Who will go to Paul Mushindo University? We have a lot of graduates in this country who are roaming the streets because they do not have jobs. We also have a lot of diploma holders who are roaming the streets.

Hon. Government Members: Where are they?

Mr Nkombo: In Bemba, Mr Speaker, they say, a batutu, meaning …

Hon. Government Members: Where are they?

Mr Nkombo: Some tutus on your right are saying, “where are they?” Is that a fair question to ask where the graduates who have no jobs are?

Mr Mwewa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, no.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Nkombo: It is unfair for them to ask me where the graduates are because most of the people …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Nkombo: … who voted for these people …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Nkombo, I have said, Order.

You have to listen to the Chair. Do not disobey the Chair’s ruling by continuing to debate after I have said, “Order”.

This is why we normally advise that you should debate through the Chair. This protects the person debating because if somebody disturbs you, at least, I am able to tell them that you are not addressing them but me. I have been listening very quietly and most of the time you have been addressing them directly and not through me, even though, sometimes, you are looking at me. 

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Please, address whoever it is you are addressing through me so that we can rule out of order anybody who says tutu and so on and so forth.

You may continue.

Mr Nkombo: I thank you for your guidance, Sir.

Mr Speaker, I was saying that, today, there are many graduates being churned out of tertiary institutions like teachers’ and nursing colleges, and universities. We have more than enough people graduating from colleges and universities and, in the face of it all, the PF Government has decided to put a freeze on employment. 

Mr Speaker, they are allocating money to tertiary education to train people that they will not be able to employ. This means that there is an anomaly. We are better off investing in a child for fifteen years, hoping that fifteen years later, we will have created the desired tertiary institution for that child. Therefore, the hon. Minister’s achievement of the 20 per cent or more threshold is still meaningless. This is because, for example, once my son graduates from university, he will still be dependent on me because the hon. Minister has put in place an employment freeze.

The hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health referred to the 650 health posts to be constructed using a grant from India. We all know about the grant even though some people want to claim ownership. Sir, once these 650 posts have been established, where will the manpower come from in the face of the employment freeze? I want the linkages to be established here. This is my message to the hon. Minister.

The interconnections of this Government, from the pronouncements it has made, to the figure work and implementation should be synergised. As things stand, they are haphazard. The hon. Minister may have good intentions, …

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, they continue to heckle even though I am facing you right now and have maintained eyeball to eyeball contact.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am happy you have been addressing me.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the Bembas say “a ba tutu”, meaning backward people, who are not able to move with the times. I am making a point and they are busy making flash comments in order to derail my thinking.

Sir, the hon. Minister allocated K417 million for water and sanitation, and yet we have a crisis in this country. We needed to double this allocation in the absence of our ability to harvest water in this country. These are the linkages between what I am talking about and agriculture. We have no ability to harvest water.

Sir, just one day of rain, as you saw yesterday, and we had all the drainages in Lusaka are blocked.

Ms Lubezhi: Is that so?

Mr Nkombo: The drainages in the capital city are blocked.

People are already paddling after one day of rains, and yet this Government allocates K417 million to water and sanitation. Soon, we will have dysentery, typhoid and cholera and all this will be attributed to the PF Government.

We have a duty to continue engaging the hon. Minister of Finance. Sometimes, these comments may appear somewhat hard and unreasonable, but I know deep down my heart that the hon. Minister understands that we mean well for this country. There is no contest that when cholera comes, as a result of failure to sanitise this place, a relative of mine may fall victim. I am, therefore, dutifully bound to comment on this meagre allocation to the water and sanitation sector.

Finally, Sir, K5 billion has been allocated for infrastructure development. You cannot run before you crawl. What is the rush in paving all these roads? You should go to the North-Western Province where my wife comes from and you will appreciate what I am talking about. The people in the North-Western Province are disadvantaged, and yet they are the ones who are earning most of the revenue for this country.

Mr Katuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: What is the value of putting paving stones in Chawama at the expense of connecting the – what is the name of the road that goes to the Black Forest?

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: … Watopa/Sitaka Road, which is less than 80 km. It takes a motorist five hours to drive on this road and only if he/she is using a 4X4 vehicle.

What is the value of linking Zambia within the compounds of Lusaka? You go and tar the Katunda/Lukulu Road and connect Mongu to Kalomo. Only then will you talk about opening up the country. You have started building a road which goes nowhere from the airport to Chaminuka …

Ms Kalima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order.

Sir, my point of order is on the Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Edgar Lungu, and the Minister of Justice, Hon. Wynter Kabimba. Are they in order to sit with their backs to each other? Is it because the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has said that he is not ready for reconciliation?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central continue.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, as I conclude my discourse, I want to deal with the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

Dr Kaingu: Deal with it!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I see a disaster in these budget allocations.

I know that it is the President’s prerogative to form districts. He can even form one million of them and nobody will worry. However, there must be funding for these new districts that he is creating. We have had seventy-two districts, which have been moribund for a long time, because we do not have money. The councils in these districts are not receiving grants.

Mr Speaker, Chikankanta in Mazabuka has been given district status. We were happier when Chikankanta was in Mazabuka because now it is operating under a tree.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Nkombo: As a matter of fact, it will interest you to know, Sir, as well as the hon. Ministers on that side (pointing at the Front Bench while looking at the Chair), since you denied us permission to look at them, …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … that …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: … in the …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Do not put words in my mouth. I did not say that you should not look at them. I have always stated that you should address the Chair instead.

You may continue.

Laughter {mospagebreak}

Mr Nkombo: Sir, there is disharmony in the creation of these districts. A typical example is the one I have just given of Chikankanta. There is a proposal that the district office for Chikankanta be built in Neganega Ward, in Mazabuka Constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Nkombo: Have you ever seen a district inside a constituency?

Dr Kaingu: Yes, Mwandi.

Mr Nkombo: How can a district be domiciled in a ward of another constituency. That is the situation in Chikankata. There has been fighting between the chief and the local authorities. There have been letters flying around to build the Chikankata District Office in Mazubaka Constituency. Why did they dismember it in the first place? It does not add up. My substantive point, as I resume my seat, is that we have districts that have not been functioning because of a lack of funding.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: There has been no money. You are free to create districts and employ your people, who are PF affiliates, as DCs. That is fine, but you will pay a price. These individuals, Sir, will pay a price one of these days.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, councils have stopped functioning.

Finally, I would like to say that despite what may seem to be harsh words, I stand ready to support the hon. Minister of Finance in ensuring the execution of this Budget. I ask him politely to, please, find the money for the CDF 2013 so that everyone can benefit.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the Budget Policy Debate on behalf of the people of Nchelenge Constituency.

Mr Speaker, allow me, firstly, to thank the hon. Minister of Finance for presenting a growth Budget once again. The Budget reassures this country of continuing on the reform path and that macro-economic stability shall continue. This shall be maintained on account that our projections are very conservative and that we have been very consistent in the application of monetary policies.

Mr Speaker, the Budget speaks to the President’s Speech which was delivered here on the occasion of the Official Opening of the Third Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. It emphasised job creation. The overall objective of the 2014 Budget is employment creation which is a repeat of the 2103 Budget. I would like to emphasise the consistency on the part of the hon. Minister of Finance. He is equally consistent in focusing on and creating strategies to attain employment creation. This year, he has been a lot more innovative by employing other strategies. When it comes to the Budget size or quantum and allocations, commentators on the quantum have applauded the hon. Minister of Finance. Since we are looking forward to growth, we will need to have a lot of money. In view of this, he has asked for a lot of money from the President and that has been granted. Next year, we should be spending K42 billion against this year’s K32 billion compared to the previous year’s K27 billion. It is 100 per cent more than what was allocated in 2011.

Mr Speaker, in terms of allocations across spending functions, we have an increase in all of them except one. Hon. Minister, you have my commendations.

Hon. Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpundu: Mr Speaker, let me now address myself to some of the issues that have been raised by the Hon. Members on your left.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kunda: Are you a Minister?

Mr Mpundu: Mr Speaker, the first item is in relation to the Government’s performance. The issue is that there is an implementation deficit and that the pace of the Government’s performance is really slow. Perhaps, I should give a historical perspective. Let us look at the United National Independence Party’s (UNIP) Administration. It took them two years to get the policies to bed down. Their performance started to be seen during the period 1966 to 1971. This is the period of the implementation of the First National Development Plan (FNDP). This building we are in was constructed during that period, the University of Zambia and the so-called Kaunda schools were built during that period. So, it took two years.

The same could be said about the Chiluba Administration. It was not until 1993 that we started seeing signs of improvement in the economy in terms of firming of the Structural Adjustment Programme (SAP). Again, this took two years. It is not any different from what we are seeing now. It is almost two years now that we have started seeing the fruits of the policy framework. Our ninety-day saying is for purposes of refocusing the policy framework. This, we have done very successfully. That is why, to this day, we can see that the whole country has become a construction site, thanks to the vision of His Excellency the President and the implementation of the Budget by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpundu: Mr Speaker, the second issue that was complained about by our colleagues is that the country is slowly slipping into a debt trap. We have been told by the hon. Minister of Finance that he is watching the debt profile. I am sure this is sufficient comfort and we can rest assured that this country has sufficient debt service capacity. Debt service capacity refers to amortisation which is the principal and interest. It is not the whole debt stock. We could accumulate even a K200 billion debt. At the moment, the debt sustainability analysis for Zambia shows that the debt service capacity is within manageable and sustainable levels.

Sir, there has been a complaint that this country has not been raising enough revenue from the country’s mineral resources. I guess we are all agreed on this. This is as much a concern of the Government as it is for all of us.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has promised this House and the nation at large that he will put in place mechanisms to ensure that the country benefits from the resources that God has given us. There has been a complaint that there is deterioration in the macro-economic parameters. This is not true. Growth of 1 per cent is more than the negative things that we are talking about. The economy has been growing and it is anticipated that it will continue to grow in the foreseeable future.

Mr Speaker, there has been another complaint that the salaries, which have been awarded to the civil servants, will lead to inflation. I cannot connect inflation to an increase in salaries. The increase in purchasing power will not lead to an upward adjustment in the price of goods and services. What I know is that it will instead lead to an increase in demand. There will be growth and the country will benefit from this.

Mr Speaker, may I appeal to hon. Members on your left to work together with us in some areas of common concern so that this country continues to see growth in a positive way. There are some areas where we can work together because we have seen that they are areas of concern. For example, in agriculture, we should be urging the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock to consider increasing support to small-scale farmers and emergent and commercial farmers. This is particularly, in regard to small-scale farmers who are not beneficiaries of the FISP. The FISP was designed as an economic programme to develop agriculture in this country but, instead, it was implemented as a social programme. By the time the PF Government came to power, it had become a socio-political problem. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock has a lot of issues at hand in this sector.

Mr Speaker, in the fisheries sector, I think there are all smiles. For the first time in many years, the Ministry of Finance has allocated some funds for the awakening of this economic giant. We are likely to see huge growth in this sector, hence more jobs will be created. The people of Luapula, Western and Northern provinces are likely to benefit massively from this. Therefore, can we work together and urge the hon. Minister of Finance to put more money in this sector.

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about industry. Before me is the Strategic Plan by the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. I would like to draw this House to objectives No. 3 and 4. Objective No. 3 talks about promoting growth and development of micro, small and medium enterprises in order to create wealth and employment. There are a lot of strategies here and one which catches my attention is: To facilitate the establishment of venture capital funds. By the time we will have established this venture capital fund, there is a high likelihood that a million jobs will have been created.

Sir, Objective No. 4 talks about facilitating and promoting growth in investment in order to contribute to sustained economic growth and development. Of particular importance to me is the strategy which seeks to facilitate the development of the Industrial Development Commission. So, we are talking about facilitating the growth of industry across various sub-sectors, particularly agro processing. Therefore, we should implement this Strategic Plan for the period 2011-2015. This is the work of a genius. Those who were behind this Strategic Plan for the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry did a wonderful job for this country. This document has been signed by no other than the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock now, Hon. Sichinga. Hon. Sichinga, you did a very good job.

Mr Speaker, with regard to tourism, let us all address ourselves to the activation of the Northern Circuit. This is a very big project and can be an economic giant if we addressed it properly, especially within the same framework that we put money in Livingstone during the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) preparatory works.

In conclusion, Sir, I would like to say that this country is a shared estate and so is its future. Therefore, let us all emulate His Excellency the President who has called for inclusiveness in his reign. Let us all support him to lift the soul and spirit of the nation so that the ordinary citizens benefit.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: E ma speakers, aya.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I had the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa on my list, but he has gone out. I will call upon the hon. Member of Parliament for Chavuma.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to contribute to debate on this year’s Budget Address made by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Sir, I, too, would like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance for this Budget presentation. I would like to commend him, especially that he is doing so in the midst of many challenges. However, somehow, he has to find the resources to meet the aspirations of the citizens of this country. More often than not, it is a very big challenge for the ministry because, as we know, the resource envelope for this country is very small, and yet the developmental needs are many.

In my presentation, I would like to restrict myself to a few items which were highlighted in this Budget. Among them, I would like to contribute to the hon. Minister’s Speech on infrastructure development and energy infrastructure.

Mr Speaker, the allocation of K550 million to the Power Rehabilitation Project for ZESCO is most welcome, although it is long overdue. We need to develop our energy sector for the country to make gains in regard to a lot of things that we are talking about such as job creation because we will need energy to develop our energy sector if we are create jobs.

Sir, all of us have seen that the demand for energy is far above what is supplied. This has resulted in the quality of the services delivered being compromised and deteriorated. We have seen low voltages and experienced load shedding. Low voltages have got a bad tendency of disrupting business because most of the equipment and machinery in industries cannot function. Load shedding does not only disrupt our lives, but is also a big inconvenience. So, if we have to grow this economy to the figures that we are projecting, I think we need to hasten engaging a strategic partner in the development of the energy programmes so that the Government can quickly embark on developing this energy infrastructure which will now make energy available for the economy to grow.

Mr Speaker, while talking about energy infrastructure, I would also like to request the hon. Minister that various districts in the North-Western Province need to be connected to the National Grid. This is because this is firm energy. As many of the hon. Members here have commented, there is a lot of potential in the North-Western Province but, without firm energy, many investors will not be attracted to the province. This is because even if they take their investment there, there will not be reliable energy to drive their investments. Therefore, the hon. Minister should consider not only rehabilitating the existing infrastructure, but also developing the transmission network so that investors can tap on the abundant rainfall and fertile in the province.

Sir, I do not know if the Ministry of Finance, being the key ministry of the Government, is looking at how private investors can come on board to develop the immense hydro potential that this country has. To tap this potential, we should not just rely on the Government. The Government must create an enabling environment so that private capital can be used to develop places like Mumbotuta in Luapula Province and the Devil’s Gorge on the Lake Kariba. There is a lot of potential in developing the hydropower sector in this country. If fully developed, the hydropower sector of this country has the capacity to export energy which can contribute to the hon. Minister’s coffers. So, there is a need for the Ministry of Finance to seriously consider developing the energy sector. This is so because the potential at a place like Mumbotuta is also immense.

Mr Speaker, I would like to lament the K65 million allocated to the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). As you know, the REA is the engine for the electrification of most parts of the country since most parts of this country are rural. Hon. Members are aware that in a few years time, the country will be going for elections, and the availability of energy will play a vital role in uplifting the living standards of people in rural areas. So, the Ministry of Finance should consider allocating more resources to the REA. Only then will the Budget theme, “Moving Forward to Consolidate Growth and Social Justice in Peace and Unity”, be meaningful to the citizens of Zambia, the majority of who live in rural areas.

Mr Lufuma: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, is Hon. Limata and the hon. Member sitting next to her in order to sit like that like they are not brother and sister?

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: In fact, when people are brothers and sisters, that is when they should sit like that.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, there is a need to provide social justice to the citizens in the rural areas and this is where the REA would play a significant role. I would like to reiterate that the hon. Minister of Finance should consider allocating more funds to the REA.

Mr Speaker, I will also speak a bit about what the hon. Minister has said in the Budget Speech with regard to attracting and promoting investments in the country. This is very welcome and  necessary for our economy. We need to attract and promote investments by both local and foreign investors.

However, Sir, the hon. Minister of Finance should prevail on his colleagues in Cabinet because, for investment to flourish, we need both political and economic stability. For instance, today, we have heard that the roadmap for the Constitution-making process is not clearly defined. If investors are going to bring their money here over a period of time, they should know that there is stability in the country. So, it would be good if things like the Constitution-making process could be clearly understood.

Mr Speaker, the Government should not just talk about peace and unity. As citizens, we need unity and the Government must be in the forefront of practising it. We hope that what has been prevailing in the recent past, such as the harassment of the hon. Opposition Members of Parliament, will be a thing of the past because, if that prevails, we will scare away investors.

Sir, on the economic front, we also need to come up with policies that will not give any doubt to investors, especially foreign investors. I know we have passed SIs, but all of these should be explained properly. For instance, as regards SI No. 55, investors must be assured that their assets will not be forfeited to the State. You know, people are very jittery about investing money where there is too much State control. If investors think that there will be a lot of State control over their money, they are not going to invest in this country.

Mr Speaker, I can assure you that if you watch either the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) or other television networks, you will see that most countries are looking for foreign investment in their countries. So, we should also make legislation that will be attractive to foreign investment and not laws that will make capital to fly from this country. If we do not, it will be difficult to create the jobs that we need for our citizens.

Finally, Mr Speaker, allow me to talk about support to the agriculture sector vis-à-vis the employment freeze for the next two years. This is also a big paradox because we want to create jobs. I know that it is not only the Government which creates jobs, but also the private sector. However, if the hon. Minister does not give enough support to peasant farmers and there are no good extension services, even the private sector which creates jobs by employing other supporters in the provision of agricultural services will not be able to create jobs. Therefore, the economic ministries such as the Commerce, Trade and Industry, and Agriculture and Livestock, need to do things that will lend credence to create jobs so that even if the Government freezes employment for two years, the private sector can still create jobs. However, we must not formulate policies that will also impact job creation in the private sector negatively. That is not going to help anyone at all.

Mr Speaker, we heard from the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security that he is proposing to increase the retirement age to sixty-five. In the same vein, for the next two years, there will be a job freeze. This means that the youth will not have anything to look forward to in terms of employment, and yet the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is creating many secondary schools and more universities are being opened to produce more graduates and we have increased the retirement age in the Civil Service and the private sector. How are we going to absorb the new graduates in industry? This is because the jobs will still be filled by people who should have retired at fifty-five years. Therefore, the hon. Minister should consider all these factors so that we have real economic growth in the country. The youth are the future. If we stifle them now because people who should retire are still in employment, how can we expect this economy to grow?

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the hon. Minister of Finance’s Budget Speech.

Mr Speaker, I want to note that the theme of, “Moving Forward to Consolidate Growth and Social Justice in Peace and Unity”, is very encouraging. It is a hopeful Budget. However, from past experience, we know that the disease of our economic performance has been grossly and predominantly that of implementation. I see that with an increase in the Budget from K32.2 billion to K42.7 billion, if we can put our act together, we can ensure that those who are supervising implementers do their job timely.  However, for this to happen, there has to be timely release of funding as per profile submitted to the hon. Minister of Finance. If the funding is not timely, then one will see that the planned programmes will not be undertaken as indicated.

Mr Speaker, I will confine my debate to two areas, and these are education and health because many of my colleagues have raised concerns with regard to the 2014 Budget.

Sir, the first concern in education is the planned development in infrastructure. That is, the construction of fifty-three secondary schools, upgrading of basic schools, teachers houses and primary schools. These are what I would refer to as the hardware. I still need to see the human resource development in this area because having attained the Maputo Declaration on Education, we can have all these schools but, if we do not have motivated teachers and the materials required, then I do not see how we can have quality education.

Mr Speaker, currently, teachers and Public Service workers have had salary increments. I am not sure whether these increments are as per the promises of 200 per cent, but they are increments, nevertheless. If the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is to encourage young teachers to go to hard-to-reach areas and salaries are standardised, how does the PF Government expect teachers to remain in those areas? They cannot. Socially, they are cut off. In some areas, they have to spend a lot of time to go and get their salaries from the banks at the district centres. Is this not a question of giving on one hand and taking away with the other? For two years, how can we have this well-thought-out development infrastructure without qualified teachers? We need answers. Otherwise, this Budget Speech remains good only in words but not in practice.

Sir, as if that was not enough, there have been changes in curricula from Grades 1 to 7, but there are no accompanying materials like teachers manuals. The text books still remain a matter of choice and are not available. Surely, what are we doing? Are we assisting the hon. Minister of Finance to realise the socio-economic development as indicated?

Mr Speaker, we would have prepared these things long before. Now, the teachers are frustrated. Who cannot be frustrated if they have no tools with which to do their work? We have a lot of work in this area.

Sir, the Rural Hardship, Double Class, and Responsibility allowances have been done away with. Please, find a way in which you can motivate the teachers. One clear way is to provide them with tools. I am sure that they would get on with the job if you did.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the health sector, we also see good intentions with the establishment of districts that will require district hospitals and the much-talked about 650 health posts. I want to emphasise that a clean, caring and competent environment cannot be realised unless we have human …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 29th October, 2013.