Debates - Tuesday, 10th May, 2016

Printer Friendly and PDF

Tuesday, 10th May, 2016

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

THE SECURITY SITUATION BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER THE 11TH AUGUST, 2016, GENERAL ELECTIONS

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila): Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to present to the House a statement on the security situation in the country before, during and after the 11th August, 2016, General Elections.

Sir, Zambia has a democratic political system that provides for free and fair elections every five years. Accordingly, Zambians enjoy the right to vote and be voted for in accordance with the supreme law of the land. It is, however, important to underline the fact that free and fair elections can only be conducted in a peaceful environment because the political players have to travel around the country and sell their manifestos to Zambians. Peace is, therefore, a necessary precondition for democratic free and fair elections.

Mr Speaker, it should be noted that our country has, since 1991, successfully held four general elections and two Presidential by-elections. As a result, it has, so far, been ruled by three different political parties, with power transferred to each of them peacefully. That is not a small achievement, as it has eluded many countries in the world. It is, therefore, not surprising that our country is respected and recognised as a mature democracy in the sub-region, the African continent and, indeed, the world over. It is also widely acknowledged as an oasis of peace and a beacon of hope for many people in Africa and beyond. This recognition is a collective achievement of all the peace-loving people of Zambia, who opt for dialogue and peaceful resolution of disputes in their everyday interactions. All political players, therefore, have a duty to build on the peaceful and democratic credentials of our country. They also have the responsibility to help maintain law and order. As we drift towards the campaign season, they must all spread messages of peace, love and hope for our beautiful motherland, Zambia. That is, their fellow citizens and all the people who live and work in our country.

Sir, as the Minister responsible for internal security, I am pleased to report that the security situation in our country is stable and normal, and I am confident that we shall sustain the peace obtaining in our country. All the contestants in the forthcoming elections will, therefore, carry out their campaigns freely in a secure and peaceful environment. However, peace cannot be taken for granted. Therefore, my ministry, working with the Zambia Police Service Command, has made adequate preparations to ensure that peace continues to prevail before, during and after elections.

Sir, let me now specifically address the House on the measures we will effect to maintain security in our country before, during and after the elections.

Security Situation before the 11th August, 2016 General Elections

Sir, to ensure a peaceful and secure environment prior to the 2016 General Elections, officers in the Zambia Police Force and other security agencies have been trained in policing elections, managing public safety, security and disputes, and resolving conflicts before, during and after elections. In addition, the command-level officers have been trained in impartial administration of the Public Order Act and Electoral Code of Conduct for them to ensure a level field for all participants. It should be noted that the Public Order Act regulates the conduct of public processions and meetings while the Electoral Code of Conduct provides mechanisms for resolving electoral conflicts and disputes through the Conflict Resolution Committees at both the national and district levels. Security officers are key members of the committees. Apart from training security officers, we have also promoted dialogue among stakeholders and continued to sensitise members of the public on the importance of maintaining law and order. This effort will be sustained until after the elections.

Sir, to ensure that the Zambia Police Force is able to respond quickly and effectively to any potential threat, my Government has procured motor vehicles, motorcycles and other essential security equipment and distributed them throughout the country.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Police Force has also intensified motorised and foot patrols and taken all other security measures and precautions necessary for the management of public security during and after national elections.

Security Measures during Elections

Mr Speaker, during the election period, the security measures that have been put in place to secure our country before the elections will be maintained. Additionally, highway patrols will be intensified and strategic security checkpoints introduced. The two additional measures will be directed at curbing criminal behaviour. Officers manning our borders will also maintain their vigilance to ensure that the cross-border crime does not escalate during the elections.

Security Measures after the Elections

Mr Speaker, it is well-known that the period after the casting of ballots is characterised by anxiety amongst the competing political players. In fact, during that time, the political players prepare to either celebrate or react otherwise to the outcome of the elections. In this regard, my Government has prepared adequately to maintain law and order throughout our country during that period. In addition to the measures already planned for the other stages of the election process, the Zambia Police Force will intensify foot and motorised patrols.

Mr Speaker, even though my Government had wanted to amend the Public Order Act to ensure that it is not an excuse for violence during our elections, the quality of the submissions received from stakeholders was not adequate to justify substantive changes to the law. Consequently, the only submission received, considered and agreed upon was a shortening of the notification period. Evidently, the matter requires more consultations. The taxing work of aligning our laws with the new Constitution has also not allowed for the substantive engagement required to reform the Public Order Act to the extent that his Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, expected. So, sadly, the Act will remain in its current form for the time being.

Mr Speaker, in relation to the Public Order Act, let me comment on the violence that took place in Matero Township, Lusaka, on Saturday, 7th May, 2016.

Sir, violence should not be condoned and will never be a part of our democratic dispensation. We must all, therefore, work for peace and use our peaceful and clearly laid-out procedures for handling conflicts among us and promote peace even as we compete for political office. The interests of our country must come before our individual interests because our individual ambitions cannot be realised in the absence of peace. In that regard, we have instituted investigations into the violence that occurred in Matero and will deal firmly with the culprits

Sir, let me conclude by assuring the nation that my Government has prepared adequately for the 11th August, 2016 General Elections and will do everything possible to ensure that they are held in a violence-free environment. Our people must be free to participate without fear of any kind. I also appeal to members of the public and all political players to promote peace before, during and after the elections. We must isolate the violent elements and promote peace. We are, after all, one nation.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I am sure that every Zambian cherishes peace and am aware that democracy is noisy. Why, therefore, is the noisy, overzealous and intimidating behaviour of Patriotic Front (PF) cadres treated differently from the perceived similar behaviour of opposition party cadres? Why should there be this discrimination if we want to maintain peace in our country?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, if we are to maintain peace, I have to emphasise that police officers have to be impartial in executing their duties.

Sir, on the question of noisy and overzealous cadres, be they members of the United Party for National Development (UPND) or the Patriotic Front (PF), all I can say is that their leaders must get them to behave.

That is my comment, Sir.

I thank you.

Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, whenever the United Party for National Development (UPND) holds rallies, we see violence erupt. However, that is not the case when the Patriotic Front (PF) holds rallies. I also note and applaud the fact that the hon. Minister has taken the necessary measures about which he has told us. My question is: Does the violence occur because the hon. Minister does not put the necessary security measures in place? If so, what assurance can he give this House and the nation at large that what we saw in Matero will never recur?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa’s sentiments on overzealous cadres. The overzealousness should come to an end because whoever will be involved in violent acts will be brought to book by the police. As I have already emphasised, the police have to be impartial in dealing with both United Party for National Development (UPND) and Patriotic Front (PF) members. As all of us are aware, the campaign period will start on 16th May, 2016.

Sir, I will not comment on the issue of UPND rallies always turning violent because I do not want to be political. All I can do is appeal to all political players to restrain their cadres.

As I have already stated, Sir, we have instituted investigations into the violence that occurred in Matero, where cadres of one party attacked those of another and burnt down their office, which was very unfortunate.
 
Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Sir, as Minister of Home Affairs, I have access to information. Given what happened in Matero, those who complain about police brutality will not be justified to continue doing so, as police officers have the right to defend themselves. I repeat my advice to the UPND, especially, that it should not complain when police officers defend themselves.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, when it was still an opposition political party, the Patriotic Front (PF) is on record championing …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Lufuma: … a review of the Public Order Act. From what the hon. Minister has said, however, it is evident that the review has failed. With that failure, the PF is using the Act selectively and, therefore, causing a lot of conflict between the police and opposition political parties, especially the United Party for National Development (UPND). An example I would like to give is …

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kabompo West!

Please, resume your seat.

Hon. Members on both sides of the divide, I am especially aware of the nature of this statement, but I appeal to all of you to avoid long and winding statements. This is an opportunity for you to seek clarifications on the statement. That is all you should do.

Hon. Lufuma, please, seek clarification.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for your guidance.

Sir, when the UPND forms Government on August 11th, 2016, ...

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Lufuma: ... will the PF cry for the Act to be reviewed after failing to do it?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Before we proceed any further, let me provide further guidance. I think I have made this ruling before. There is absolutely no need to posture over the outcome of the elections.  Leave that to the electorate.

Hon. Minister, you may answer.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, on 11th August, 2016, Zambians, not anyone else, will be the ones to decide.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

I have already guided on that.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, we have not failed to review the Public Order Act. The process is ongoing. We invited all the stakeholders to submit their views, but only some non-governmental organisations (NGOs) did that and the issue that came out prominently was that of the period of notification to the police, which we agreed to reduce from seven to five days.

Sir, on the application of the Public Order Act, I have already said that we have trained our police officers to do it impartially so that we maintain peace in this country.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Any further points of clarification?

Laughter

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the clear and good statement he has issued on the Floor of this House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, everything that happens has a genesis. What has the Ministry of Home Affairs done about the genesis of this cycle of violence? The genesis of this violence is a certain formula associated with a certain grouping ...

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Kawambwa!

You have asked the question. So, you cannot answer it.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, what is the genesis of the violence?

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I do not want to be partisan on the issue of violence because it concerns all the political players. It concerns all of us. So, we have to ensure that all the political cadres are not allowed to be involved in acts of violence. We need peace in this country now, during elections and thereafter.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, ...

Prof. Luo indicated.

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

I will not allow points of order in this sitting. In fact, resume your seat and let me guide the House.

Hon. Members, we have decided to sit from 0900 hours to 2000 hours today and 0900 hours until we exhaust all the pending business tomorrow. We do not know what time we will finish. Therefore, those of you who have questions have an opportunity to file in questions of an urgent nature today.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

In short, there will be no raising of points of order. If you have any pressing question, just retreat and file it. We will do our utmost best to secure a response by tomorrow. 

The hon. Member for Choma Central may continue.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, violence is insidious and abhorrent in a democracy regardless of who perpetrates it. Under the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD), violence was known to occur only during by-elections. Under the Patriotic Front (PF) Administration, however, each time the United Party for National Development (UPND) holds a meeting, the PF sends its cadres to disrupt the meeting, thereby precipitating violence. Why is this so when the PF promised to end violence?

Hon. Minister, PF members, including your President, Mr Lungu, attended the high-profile Indaba at which the nation resolved to end violence. Why are you, on the one hand, talking of ending violence and, on the other, sponsoring it by sending cadres to disrupt UPND meetings?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I made the statement as Minister of Home Affairs, not as the Secretary-General of the PF.  So, I cannot respond to the question about the PF sponsoring cadres to cause violence at UPND meetings. All I can say is that we should forget about the past and move forward in fairness, peace and security. 

Mr Speaker, lastly, let me remind the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central, Mr Cornelius Mweetwa, that President Edgar Lungu is not only my President, but his, too.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, peace is very important and the people of Zambia want it.

Hon. Minister, if peace ‘runs away’, ...

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: ... the blood of Zambians will be on your head. 

Sir, with my naked eyes, I have seen ...

Mr Speaker: Order, Hon. Mbewe!

What is your question?

Mr Mbewe: Sir, I have seen cadres ...

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Chadiza!

What is your question?

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, my question is: I have seen political party cadres ...

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: ... in uniforms like those used by our security personnel. When you see them, you will be so terrified that your blood pressure will go up. Can the hon. Minister inform the House and the nation whether cadres are allowed to dress like that.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, such dressing is not allowed. In fact, I recall that the PF Youth Chairperson, Mr Kennedy Kamba, directed PF youths to stop wearing military fatigues. Equally, UPND youths should stop the practice.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for being very honest. I take it that the statement has come from the bottom of his heart, especially his comments on the Matero incident, in which Patriotic Front (PF) cadres went to disrupt a United Party for National Development (UPND) meeting and UPND members retaliated by burning PF offices. It was very honest of him to say what he said. That said, could he comment on yesterday’s clashes between the police and PF cadres on Makishi Road. I am sure that he is aware that there were many stones thrown on Makishi Road by PF cadres who were on their way to burn the UPND Headquarters.

Ms Kapata interjected.

Mr Nkombo: No, Jean, do not …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: She should not do that.

Mr Speaker: That is totally unnecessary.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Nkombo: I am done, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Did you ask a question?

Mr Nkombo: Yes, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Okay.

Mr Nkombo: What were the PF cadres doing on that road?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of that incident. What I am aware of is that …

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: This is why I said that I did not want to be partisan. Some UPND cadres had gone on the Great East Road and stoned innocent motorists. That is what happened.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Ah, ah!

Mr Mwila: We are investigating the matter and whoever was involved will be brought to book. That is all I can say, for now, but I will get more information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, on 14th May, 2016, the United Party for National Development (UPND) was supposed to hold a rally at Freedom Square in Kitwe.

Mr Speaker: 14th May?

Mr L. J. Ngoma: 14th May, Sir.

However, Sir, the police denied the party the permission and advised that the campaign period had not officially commenced. However, without shame, the police, then, allowed the Ruling Party, …

Hon. Government Members: Boma!

Mr L. J. Ngoma: … the Patriotic Front (PF), …

Hon. Government Members: Boma!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr L. J. Ngoma: …to hold a rally on the same day, venue and time.

How does the hon. Minister hope to maintain the peace about which he talked given such a partial application of the law? Does he really think that it is possible?

Mr Speaker: Before the hon. Minister responds, I want to guide the House.

Hon. Members on the right, if you want to assist the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, just send him a note. Avoid those running commentaries. Whatever it is, put it on paper. 

Hon. Minister, you may respond.

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, two meetings were successfully held last Saturday. One was organised by the PF in Bauleni while the other was organised by the UPND in Matero. Perhaps, the hon. Member for Sinda was not aware of that.

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Mwila: No, wait.

Hon. Opposition Members: Kambwili!

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Mwila resumed his seat.

Mr Speaker: Continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, on 14th May, 2016, the UPND was supposed to launch either its campaigns or manifesto, I do not know which of the two it was.

Laughter

Mr Mwila: However, the meeting was cancelled on the basis that the campaign period had not started. In fact, the PF was supposed to launch its manifesto at Heroes Stadium, but the event was cancelled because campaigns will only be allowed starting on 16th May, 2016. So, the PF is also subject to that provision.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: There is no shame.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I rarely praise people. However, today, the hon. Minister has been a bit honest.

Mr Speaker: Order, Hon. Muntanga!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, sometimes, the Ministry of Home Affairs exhibits double standards in its enforcement of the law. For example, during the commemoration of Youth Day, a young lady was stripped naked in the presence of the police …

Mr Speaker: Is that a question?

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I want to ask the hon. Minister a question, ...

Mr Speaker: Ask the question.

Mr Muntanga: … but you are delaying my thinking.

Hon. Government Members: Hmn!

Mr Speaker: Pardon?

Mr Mwale: He said you are delaying his thinking, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: My thinking is being disturbed, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, questions are very easy to ask.

Mr Muntanga: Sir, …

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Resume your seat.

Mr Muntanga resumed his seat.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I have indicated, repeatedly, that we should avoid long and winding prefaces to your questions. This is simply an opportunity for you to seek clarifications on the hon. Minister’s statement.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I cannot ask the question on the double standards being employed by the hon. Minister’s office without reminding him of Priscilla Mwiinga’s case. In Kamwala, one young lady was stripped and raped in public and in the presence of the police, yet nothing was done about it. When a case involves United Party for National Development (UPND), the hon. Minister talks about how it will be investigated and stern action taken. However, when the culprits are PF members, such as was the case in the assault on the the young lady, no action is taken against them, yet they are known. How does he hope to maintain peace when such double standards are employed?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I have appealed to all hon. Members of Parliament to look to the future, not the past. If we start talking about what happened on Youth Day, then, we should also talk about the PF cadre who was stripped in Choma, which will not take us anywhere. What is important for us is to maintain peace by telling our party cadres to refrain from acts of violence.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!  

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I will be winding up. So, as the Clerks-at-the-Table give me the names to whom I have given the Floor, I remind you that we should seek clarifications on the hon. Minister’s statement. There have been many incidents over the last five years, but his statement was on a specific topic. Seek clarifications on it.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister’s statement is very good, as it assures people of their safety. However, the actions of the police on the ground are also important. Additionally, the hon. Minister needs to be impartial and his word must be obeyed.

Sir, following the recent ritual murders, there have been security officers patrolling the streets at night, especially in Lusaka. That will intimidate people from going to the polling stations to vote. Does the hon. Minister plan to remove the security personnel from the streets so that Zambians are encouraged to vote freely?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, that concern is noted and I assure the nation that if need be, we will remove the police officers from the streets during the voting period.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has emphasised the need for law enforcement officers to be impartial and I hope that they have been trained to that effect. However, does he not think that those we consider weak see bias when unfair acts are allowed to be perpetrated against them? For example, they see some elements of partiality when Patriotic Front (PF) members are allowed to buy votes through giving out money in markets. Would such actions of your party not agitate others and disrupt peace?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the issue of buying votes will be dealt with by the Conflict Resolution Committees at the district level. On the issue of impartiality, I have stressed that our police officers have to be impartial if we are to maintain peace and I have stated that we have trained them to administer the Public Order Act fairly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, a United Party for National Development (UPND) meeting scheduled for 14th May, 2016, was cancelled on account of the date being outside the campaign period. However, the Patriotic Front (PF) Media Committee Chairperson has announced a PF meeting to be held at the venue the UPND meeting should have been held. Has the PF meeting also been cancelled?

Mr Speaker: Those are precise questions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I clarified this issue when the hon. Member of Parliament for Sinda asked a similar question.

Sir, the two meetings that were supposed to be held were for the launch of manifestos for the two political parties but, as far as we know, the PF will not hold its rally. So, I am not aware of the PF meeting to which the hon. Member is referring.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said nothing in the Public Order Act has really changed, save for the notification period. However, he has not told us the number of days that has been agreed upon. Further, since he has distributed motor vehicles and motorcycles, have any been sent to Mitete?

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I mentioned that we agreed to reduce the notification period from seven to five days and that we need to  allow more stakeholders to make submissions on the Public Order Act before we amend it.

Sir, the motor vehicles we have purchased are 100, but I have not seen the distribution list to know whether Mitete is there because the hon. Member always says that we do nothing. However, I will check.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the United Party for National Development (UPND) meeting in Kitwe was cancelled because it fell outside the campaign period. However, Article 21 of the Bill of Rights provides for the right of citizens to assemble and associate at any time. Have the Constitutional provisions been suspended during any time outside the campaign period? Is the hon. Minister saying that Zambians are only free to assemble and associate during election campaign periods?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the meetings were to be held by the PF and the UPND for purposes of launching the two parties’ campaigns. However, the campaign period has not started. By the way, that guidance was given by the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ).

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has rightly stated that the police must not be partial in its enforcement of the law. However, what is happening on the ground is totally contrary to the hon. Minister’s wishes. Does the police, through the Inspector-General, disregard his statements or is he the one exhibiting double standards?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Kambwili: Te kuAngola kuno, iwe.

Mr Mwila: ... I have emphasised that our police officers have been trained to be impartial …

Mr Kambwili: Nalila mu Zambia umu Portuguese.

Mr Mwila: ... in enforcing the Public Order Act. We have the capacity to sack officers who will be politically biased regardless of whether they side with the PF or UPND.

I thank you, Sir.

MAIZE MARKETING MODALITIES FOR THE 2016/2017 SEASON

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to address this House and the nation at large. This statement has been necessitated by the need for me to tell Parliament and the public at large the maize marketing modalities for the 2016/2017 Agricultural Marketing Season.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, as I informed the House last week, maize production for the 2015/2016 Agricultural Season is forecast to increase to 2,873,052 metric tonnes from 2,618,221 metric tonnes in the 2014/2015 Season. That is an increase of 9.73 per cent, which means that the country has produced sufficient maize for both human consumption and industrial use, and recorded a surplus of 634,681 metric tonnes.

Mr Speaker, despite the positive harvest outlook for Zambia, maize prices in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region have escalated in recent weeks due to increased demand in neighbouring countries, with some neighbouring countries currently buying the crop at US$380 per metric tonne. That translates to K215 per 50 kg bag.

Interruptions

Mr Lubinda paused.

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

You can see your colleague has stopped because you are disturbing him, which is unusual.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, a 25 kg bag of breakfast mealie meal in some neighbouring countries is selling at approximately US$40 or close to K400. This price disparity has led to increased demand for Zambian maize in the region. In light of that, and following extensive consultations with the private sector, the Ministry of Finance and other stakeholders, my ministry has resolved as follows:

(a) the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) will buy 1 million metric tonnes of maize;

(b) the FRA purchase price will be K75 for a 50 kg bag of maize;

(c) the FRA will enter the market as soon as the maize attains the acceptable moisture content of 12.5 per cent. In some parts of the country, that is expected to happen around the beginning of June, 2016;

(d) the export of maize and maize products from the 2015/2016 Agricultural Season is suspended until the end of September, 2016; and

(e) only Zambian-registered companies will be allowed to participate in maize marketing.

Mr Speaker, the Government has deemed it necessary to announce the arrangements for the purchase of maize from the 2015/2016 Agricultural Season early because of the anticipated low production in the SADC region, which is expected to generate a huge demand for the commodity and escalate its price on both the local and regional markets. 

Sir, as already stated, the modalities I have announced, including the purchase price of K75 for a 50 kg bag, were arrived at after extensive consultations.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Members may recall that the FRA maize purchase price was K37,000 (old currency) per 50 kg bag during the 2006/2007 Marketing Season, ten years ago, and was adjusted to K38,000 per 50 kg bag during the 2008/2009 Season. During the 2009/2010 Season, it was adjusted to K65 per 50kg bag and it remained unchanged for five years, as it was next adjusted to K70 in 2014 and to K75 in 2015. The ministry has deemed it necessary to maintain it at K75 per 50 kg bag because this price is still attractive. Currently, some private buyers are offering small-scale farmers prices between K40 and K60 per 50 kg bag. 

Mr Speaker, the FRA has already started preparing for the marketing season by, among other steps, starting the distribution of marketing materials to the provinces and recruitment of staff for the satellite depots in the districts.

Mr Speaker, I also wish to inform the House and the nation that:

(a) for the 2016/2017 Marketing Season, the Government will allow government-to-government exports using the FRA and the private sector where possible. That, however, will only be done after securing the country’s maize requirements;

(b) the Grain Traders Association of Zambia (GTAZ) has existing export commitments to supply 167,000 metric tonnes of maize to neighbouring countries and the Government has authorised that quantity of maize to be exported.

(c) concerning maize bran, an announcement will be made next week after further consultations with livestock farmers, the Millers Association of Zambia (MAZ) and the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU);

(d) the Government encourages farmers to use the Zambia Agricultural Commodities Exchange (ZAMACE) platform to market their crop. I will lay copies of the ZAMACE pamphlets on the Table for distribution to my fellow hon. Members of Parliament so that they can acquaint themselves with how the system operates. This is in response to the request made by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipata Central, Mr Mtolo, last week.

Mr Speaker, I encourage our farmers to refuse to be exploited by buyers offering them low prices. As I have said, by the beginning of June, 2016, two weeks from now, the FRA will enter the market and pay farmers promptly for their maize, just like we did last year.

Mr Speaker, the measures that I have outlined above are intended to boost national food security and enable the Government to stabilise the price of mealie meal until the beginning of the 2017/18 Marketing Season. In this regard, I call upon grain traders, especially the millers, to stop using FRA facilities as their warehouses. They must go on the market and secure their most important input instead of waiting to buy from the FRA. That is the reason we will buy only 1 million metric tonnes out of the 2.8 million metric tonnes available.

Mr Speaker, let me end by requesting my hon. Colleagues, as we go out to campaign in our constituencies, to also sensitise our constituents on the Government’s maize marketing policy to ensure that the country has a successful marketing season.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarifications on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

 Ms Mulasikwanda (Mulobezi): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Agriculture for his good statements, which have alerted this House to how well his ministry is operating. That said, is the hon. Minister aware that most of the maize harvested by small-scale farmers in this country was sold whilst still in the field? If he is aware, how will he secure the remaining crop so that the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is able to purchase the 1 million metric tonnes needed for the strategic food reserves?

 Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, we are aware that some people have gone to our small-scale farmers to secure purchases of maize even before it is harvested. However, the quantities involved are so insignificant that we are not really worried about our ability to buy the 1 million metric tonnes. In fact, my fear is that my announcement of the FRA purchase price might cause too many farmers to prefer selling their maize to the agency and offer more than the 1 million metric tonnes the agency is prepared to buy. So, my fear is that the agency might end up with excess maize.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, my question will be slightly different from the one the hon. Member for Mulobezi has asked.

Sir, the hon. Minister has mentioned that the FRA purchase price will be K75 per 50 kg bag of maize, which translates to US$150 per tonne. However, as I speak, the price being offered to farmers generally, especially in one of the major maize producing areas is almost US$300 per tonne. So, I would like the hon. Minister to think deeply on this and the reason we want to buy 1 million tonnes when our requirement for the strategic reserves is 500,000 metric tonnes.

 Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Mtolo for that question.

Sir, indeed, the price of maize in the region, like I said, is in the range of US$300 to US$320 per metric tonne although we will buy at a much lower price. As I indicated, we consulted extensively, including with the ZNFU, millers and grain traders, before arriving at that price. One of the realisations we arrived at was that increasing the producer price would have a number of consequences, including raising the price of mealie meal to the levels obtaining in our neighbouring countries that did not harvest sufficient maize. Frankly speaking, I do not think that Zambians will be willing to buy a 25 kg bag of mealie meal at US$40, which is the price in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), or at K250, as they do in Malawi and Zimbabwe. The other realisation was that the K75 per 50 kg bag of maize was still adequate compensation even for the smallest producer, who produces at 2.5 metric tonnes per hectare. The third realisation was that when the supply of maize in the sub-region stabilises, the producer prices will go down. Therefore, the agricultural sector would be negatively affected if, at that time, we go back to the farmer with a reduced price. So, we are trying to maintain a stable price structure so that even when there is an over-production in the region, the farmer will still be attracted to invest. This is also the reason we have left a window open for exports.

Sir, we will buy 1 million tonnes rather than 500,000 metric tonnes because according to the FRA Act, which Hon. Mtolo knows very well, one of the mandates of the FRA is to stabilise prices. So, the additional 500,000 metric tonnes will be bought for the purpose of stabilising prices of mealie meal on the local market.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, in the past, the hon. Minister has indicated that the marketing of agricultural commodities would be liberalised. What has prompted the Government to take the leading role in buying and marketing maize grain?

 Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I thank my hon. Colleague for that question.

Sir, as I indicated earlier, this year, the Government has been motivated to take the lead in the marketing of maize by the general shortage of maize in the sub-region. The House might wish to know that Malawi expects to produce only 45 per cent of their average annual production, Zimbabwe expects between 25 and 30 per cent while South Africa expects a drop of about 30 per cent. Therefore, if the Government does not secure the additional 500,000 metric tonnes, the prices of mealie meal may escalate due to high demand in the neighbouring countries.       

Sir, with regard to private sector participation, I indicated that we expect 2.8 million metric tonnes, of which the Government will only procure 1 million tonnes. The private sector can procure the remaining 1.8 million tonnes. So, we are not contradicting our policy of private sector-led agricultural marketing. Actually, we are encouraging it. I also indicated that we will allow exports after September, 2016. The reason is that we want to make sure that all the crop is secured, and we are able to verify the figures and know which private sector players will have bought the maize so that we only issue export permits to genuine traders and prevent people from exporting FRA maize.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, I commend the hon. Minister for this statement and the others he has issued in this House before. However, on Saturday, one of his predecessors was reported in one of the newspapers alleging that the hon. Minister has been giving wrong data to the nation. What is the hon. Minister’s comment on that allegation?

Mr Lubinda: Sir, one harsh reality of life is that it is impossible for a predecessor to compete with the incumbent.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: I cannot, in any way, compete with whoever will take over from me. My time is now and I will perform to the best of my ability while expecting my successor to do better than me.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: I will not look back and accuse my successor of not performing as well as I am doing.

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mr Lubinda: That would be immoral ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: … and unfair because a successor will always build on what the predecessor left behind.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Lubinda: For that reason, I commend all my predecessors for what they did because I am building on the foundations they laid. Some of the challenges I face are a result of what they did. Some of my successes are equally a result of what they did.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: So, instead of competing with anybody, I will only make sure that the Government’s agricultural policies are implemented to the best of my ability.

Ms Siliya: Ama Minister.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Thereafter, the people will judge my performance.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Instead of judging me harshly, my predecessors should encourage me because I am doing what they intended to do. The Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) System that I implemented, for instance, was not my initiative. My predecessors came to this House and spoke about the system but, for some reasons, they did not implement it. When I was appointed Minister, my colleagues in the Cabinet encouraged me to implement it and I did it very successfully. However, I do not think that I deserve all the credit. Rather, everybody who has been involved in the process must take some of the credit. So, those of my predecessors who say that I give wrong figures to this House are merely implying that the system they left in the ministry is not accurate or reliable. I have inherited the people I work with in the ministry and those people are the ones who prepared the statements that my predecessors issued in this Parliament. How can my predecessors, today, not believe the statistics generated by the people over whom they superintended? I think this is a case of sour grapes and I will leave it at that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa indicated.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kawambwa, I have seen you, but I am following a list.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has been very consistent in updating the nation on developments in his ministry through his statements to this House. In his statements, a common theme has been that Zambia has enough food to last until the next season. However, the situation on the ground …

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

Did you say “… underground” or “… on the ground”?

Mr Hamudulu: I said, “… on the ground”, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Oh, I see.

Laughter

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, whereas there is an underworld now, I am talking about what is on the ground.

Mr Speaker: Okay.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, the situation on the ground does not conform to the claim that we are food secure because mealie meal is in short supply in some parts of the country and its price is not stable like he has alleged.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, listening to the hon. Minister’s statement this morning, I did not hear him mention any new strategy that will stabilise the price and supply of mealie meal throughout the country. What are the hon. Minister’s key strategies, in case I missed them in the statement, for ensuring that we are, indeed, food secure?

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I thank my colleague for his kind words about my being consistent in informing the House, the nation and him. Recently, I was privileged to have been assigned to go to Siavonga to grace the commemoration of Labour Day and I looked around for my colleague because I wanted him to accompany me on a tour of the shops in Siavonga. I toured a number of shops in Siavonga, which I have picked because it does not have any milling plant, and I was informed that, a few months ago, the people had been buying a bag of mealie meal at as much as K100. However, during my visit, the price had fallen to about K80. For me, that means that we have managed to lower the price. I am sure when my colleague went there for adoptions, he noticed the difference.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Sir, as I speak, in Lusaka, the hon. Minister of Finance is besieged by many millers. My colleague, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, is also under pressure from many millers who are pleading to be allowed to export because they have excess mealie meal.

Hon. Government Members: Sonta, mudala, sonta.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, this Government is working and it is producing results, which are even felt by the people of Siavonga, a town that has no milling plant. If my colleague goes to the shops in Lusaka and the on the Copperbelt, he will see that, indeed, the shops are full of mealie meal.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the prices started dropping the moment the Government allowed the FRA to increase the monthly allocations to millers. As I mentioned to the House, I have allowed the FRA to increase allocations to millers by 20 per cent.

Mr Speaker, my colleague also asked about new strategies. I am sure that everyone who paid attention heard the strategies I read out in my presentation.

Ms Siliya: Si enze kumvera.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the trouble is that sometimes, even I wonder whether I will be adopted or not ...

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: … and, in the process, I miss out on important information.

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Let us put those worries aside.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: So, I am not surprised that when statements are being made, some among us do not pay attention. That could be the reason.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister consider allowing mobile payments to the farmers who walk long distances to access their monies?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, that is a very progressive idea.

Sir, the e-Voucher System of input supply that we introduced last year is one very good mechanism that the FRA is considering using in paying our farmers. If found to be feasible, some farmers will be paid using the e-Voucher System this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, there is high demand for maize in the region this year and next year, and the hon. Minister has, in the past, reported to this House that our reserves are enough to last until July, 2016. Therefore, there is, obviously, a need for him to ensure that the ministry has enough money to pay the farmers on time to ensure that we continue to be food secure and buy our staple food at stable prices even as he will be campaigning to be re-elected. Could he assure us of that.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the way Hon. Namugala raises pertinent issues always amazes me. I am indebted to her because she often gives me opportunities to explain things better.

Sir, firstly, I think she might have got the months wrong because I have always said that we have enough food to last until August, 2016, not July. I want to re-emphasise that the carry-over stock from the 2014/2015 Agricultural Season alone is sufficient to take us to the end of August, 2016. I hope that my hon. Colleague, the Member for Siavonga, has also heard that.

Mr Speaker, the forecast crop for this year is 2.8 million metric tonnes. That and the carry-over stock of 600,000 metric tonnes add up to 3.4 million metric tonnes. I have also indicated that the Government will buy 500,000 metric tonnes for the strategic reserves and another 500,000 metric tonnes for price stabilisation. I could not come here earlier and tell the farmers that the Government would buy 1 million metric tonnes of maize without first consulting the hon. Minister responsible for the Treasury and on whose authority I issued today’s statement. He has assured me that the resources will be made available. As, I have indicated, we want to pay the farmers promptly. They will be paid less than two weeks after delivering their maize.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has announced the suspension of maize exports until September, 2016, which might suppress the motivation of the private sector to buy maize from the local farmers. He has also told us that the Government has maintained the price of K75 for a 50 kg bag because the cost of production was initially low. Now that the prices of fertilisers have risen from K350 to K400 per 50 kg bag and the cost of production has, therefore, also gone up, why does the Government not encourage people to export their maize so that they can earn more than the K75 floor price and have more money in their pockets?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, yes, I indicated that the current floor price is adequate compensation even for the least efficient producer, that is, one who produces between 1.75 metric tonnes and 2.5 metric tonnes per hectare. Those who produce 8 tonnes per hectare are actually over-compensated. As a farmer and friend of farmers, I could have allowed the farmers to sell their maize at the export parity price of US$318 per metric tonne. However, the concern then would have been whether the people of Mpongwe would have managed to pay K400 for a 25 kg bag of mealie meal.

Sir, the primary duty of the Government is to ensure that its people are well fed. So, as long as the price at which we will buy compensates the producer adequately and secures the agricultural sector, we will not increase it this year just because of the regional maize shortfall.  We do not want set ourselves the trap of falling into a price crash when the sub-region produces enough, which would bring instability in the sector. I hope that my colleague remembers that last year, the price was initially set at K70, but later revised to K75 by his Excellency. So, comparably, the current price is better than the one at which we started last year.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for his continued statements on agricultural sector.

Sir, I am encouraged that the hon. Minister has urged small-scale farmers to resist being exploited by the private sector when selling their maize. In that regard, how will the Government ensure that the farmers are not exploited when they are in very remote and hard-to-reach places and their only market is the private sector that is exploiting them? Will it increase the number of satellite depots to enable them to sell their maize at favourable prices?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, during the course of the year, some hon. Members of Parliament requested me to instruct the FRA to set up satellite depots in their areas.

Mr Lubinda: Sir, during the course of the year, some hon. Members of Parliament, including the hon. Members for Ikeleng’i and Zambezi West, requested me to instruct the FRA to set up satellite depots in their constituencies and that is what I did, especially in the new production areas of the North-Western Province, Muchinga, Luapula and Northern provinces, which are becoming the main producers of maize. This is being done in line with the provisions of the Food Reserve Act, which mandates the FRA to buy crops from far-flung areas. In the past, those areas had very few satellite depots because they did not produce much. We had more satellite depots in the Central and Southern provinces. Additionally, and contrary to my colleague’s fears, the private sector players actually do not want to buy from far-flung areas because of the cost of transportation. They prefer to mop up the maize on the line of rail, especially in the areas of the Eastern Province bordering Malawi. Malawians are the ones buying maize from our farmers. So, I assure my dear colleague that the FRA will concentrate on buying from far-to-reach areas before buying from easily accessible areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, I believe that the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) failed to buy its set target of 500,000 metric tonnes of maize in 2014, buying over 400,000 metric tonnes instead. The simple reason was that the private sector had bought more of the maize, as it offered higher prices for maize. I think that that the Government was buying at K65 per 50 kg bag while the private sector was buying the same quantity at K80. Further, the hon. Minister has stated that the price conditions are even worse on the market this year.  For example, he said that the private sector is offering small-scale farmers K40 to K60 per 50 kg bag of maize. However, I am told that, in my village, the private sector players are already offering as much as K75 to K80 and that price is likely to rise because foreign buyers have also entered the market even before the maize is harvested. Given this scenario and the increase of the FRA’s maize purchase target to 1 million metric tonnes, the agency might fail to meet the target because of stiff competition, as was the case in 2014. What measures has the Government put in place to ensure that does not happen?

Mr Lubinda: Sir, it is true that, in 2014, the FRA bought 484,000 metric tonnes of maize instead of its target of 500,000 metric tonnes. However, the conditions have somewhat changed. As I indicated, unlike …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

 [MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Lubinda: Sir, before business was suspended, I was about to assure the hon. Member for Nchanga that the FRA will not fail to meet its target of buying 1 million metric tonnes of maize despite the high demand for the commodity in the region.

Sir, the hon. Member’s question is very speculative and we can only cross the bridge when we get to it. However, I indicated a number of measures that the Government has put in place to ensure food security in the country, including the suspension of maize exports until September, 2016. This will, to some extent, dampen the motivation to purchase maize, especially in those who want to export. Further, not many traders have the financial resources to buy maize in May or June, and hoard it until September, 2016. In 2014, we did not have this measure in place, hence the FRA’s failure to buy the 500,000 metric tonnes of maize. The private sector was able to buy and export on-the-spot. This year, we are ring-fencing the maize in the country.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, in the most unlikely event that the FRA fails to buy the targeted 1 million metric tonnes, we will, if necessary, buy from the private sector. However, we are confident that the measures we have put in place will enable us to meet our target. For the information of the hon. Member for Nchanga, my fear is that farmers may actually offer the FRA much more maize than the 1 million metric tonnes targeted. I also wish to take this opportunity to indicate that all FRA satellite depots will be open for people to sell their maize. However, the agency will prioritise buying from far-flung areas because we want to create a market for the disadvantaged farmers first.

I thank you, Sir.

______________

   QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWERS

REFRIGERATION FACILITIES AT CHOMA GENERAL HOSPITAL MORTUARY

430. Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) whether the Government was aware that the refrigeration system at the Choma General Hospital Mortuary was dysfunctional;

(b) if so, when the system would be re-operationalised; and

(c) what measures had been taken, in the interim, to assist bereaved families preserve the bodies of their deceased relatives.

 The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Dr Katema) (on behalf of the Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde)): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that the refrigeration system at Choma General Hospital malfunctioned due to the power fluctuations experienced by the hospital on Sunday, 1st May, 2016, around 2200 hours.

Sir, the refrigeration facility at the hospital was repaired by 1000 hours on Monday, 2nd May, 2016, and it is still functional. A faulty compressor was replaced. In order to protect the equipment from further power fluctuations, the hospital has installed a surge protector.

Sir, when the mortuary unit malfunctioned, the one body that it contained was transferred to the Kalomo District Hospital Mortuary for preservation.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, the mortuary refrigeration facility’s malfunction lasted a number of days. I am not even sure whether it is working currently. When the calamity hit the hospital many people who lost their loved ones were directed to immediately transfer the bodies, at their cost, to the mortuaries at Kalomo or Macha hospitals, yet the ministry decided not to tell the people of Choma what was happening and the measures it was would put in place. Why did the ministry not announce in this House like the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing did a few days ago when there was water supply interruption? Why did it try to hide some of its failures?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, that incident was not planned for. So, suffice it for me to say that my ministry repaired the malfunctioning equipment. I do not think that there was any sweeping of dirt under the carpet.  So, Mr Problem, ...

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I am not ‘Mr Problem’.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let the hon. Minister continue.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, I retract that address.

Laughter

Dr Katema: Sir, nothing was hidden.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members did not pay attention.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, whatever is happening outside, please, let us maintain a presence of mind.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, this issue of malfunctioning mortuary refrigeration facilities is becoming a big problem. Why does the ministry not proactively service the facilities before they break down like they did in Choma and quite often have done in Kalomo?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, the cause of the problem in Choma was power fluctuation and the hospital has since installed a surge protector. As for periodic maintenance, that is undertaken on all equipment procured by the ministry.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, it is very clear that load shedding in this nation is here to stay. So, instead of the refrigeration systems currently used in our mortuaries, could the ministry not consider installing much simpler and cheaper-to-maintain cold rooms in the hospitals being constructed.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, as the far as the question on the Floor is concerned, the cause of the problem was power fluctuation, which can occur even with cold rooms. So, we are encouraging hospitals to install surge protectors for their equipment.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government constructed a new hospital in Choma ...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Sing’ombe: ... that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has failed to upgrade. Given that Choma is now a provincial headquarters, when will the Government commission the hospital so that we can eliminate the problems currently being faced at the old district hospital?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, what we are talking about is the problem of a broken-down refrigeration system, not about the commissioning of hospitals.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

You cannot engage him that way, however unsatisfactory the response might be.

_________

BILL

FIRST READING

THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION BILL, 2016

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move a Bill entitled the Supplementary Appropriation Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 36, of 2016.

Sir, the object of the Bill is to authorise supplementary expenditure from the general revenues of the Republic of monies required for the services of the Republic during the financial year ending 31st December, 2016, not exceeding in the aggregate K1,847,140,659.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that the contents of this Bill were debated in the Committee of Supply on Friday, 6th May, 2016. When will the Second Reading be?

Mr Chikwanda: Tomorrow, Mr Speaker.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

MOTION

REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY REFORMS AND MODERNISATION COMMITTEE

Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table on 3rd May, 2016.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, during the period under review, your Committee reviewed progress in the implementation of the National Assembly Strategic Plan 2015-2019, including projects supported by co-operating partners; reviewed progress in the construction of constituency offices; and considered the Action-Taken Report on the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee for the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly.

Sir, since hon. Members have, undoubtedly, already read the Committee’s report, allow me to discuss only a few salient points.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on both sides!

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, as the House is aware, the National Assembly Strategic Plan 2015-2019 was launched on 30th July, 2015, and is the basis of the institution’s programming in for the covered five years.

Sir, the vision of the institution is, “To Be a Model Legislature for Democracy and Good Governance.” It follows, therefore, that the mission of the National Assembly is that of being “Committed to effectively and efficiently carrying out its legislative, oversight, representative and budgetary functions.”

Sir, let me highlight some of the progress made, thus far, in the implementation of the strategic plan.

Mr Speaker, pursuant to the strategic objective of strengthening the Legislature’s capacity to provide effective oversight over the Executive, workshops were conducted on the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) and Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) for members of the Committees on Estimates; Health, Community Development and Social Services; and Education, Science and Technology. The Chairpersons of other portfolio and General Purposes Committees were also included. Further, in order to build the capacity of the National Assembly to effectively participate in the National Budget Cycle, an interim Parliamentary Budget Office has been established to serves as an in-house technical support hub for selected Parliamentary Committees. The office has also been instrumental in the intensive training of selected hon. Members of Parliament to enhance their understanding of the public financial management environment, procedures and processes, and outcomes.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the construction of constituency offices, your Committee approved changes to the standard design of the buildings. The changes include the following:

(a) addition of a toilet and entrance ramp for persons with disabilities;

(b) addition of a room for storage of chairs and other equipment;

(c) addition of a partitioned room for storage of solar batteries;

(d) expansion of the veranda to create more room for public meetings;

(e) addition of a guard house; and

(f) tiling of floors in all offices.

Sir, I wish to inform the House that, so far, twenty-three constituency offices have been constructed. Sixteen more will be constructed in 2016 with the support of the German Government. To speed up the construction of the offices, your Committee urges the Executive to consider increasing the budgetary allocation to the project. 

Mr Speaker, in considering the Action-Taken Report on the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee for the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, your Committee discussed, among other outstanding topics, the sensitisation of the public on the existence and roles of constituency offices and the functions of hon. Members of Parliament. In that regard, your Committee observed that hon. Members of Parliament are hindered from effectively sensitising their constituents by inadequate financial and logistical support. The Committee also contends that motorcycles are not suitable modes of transport, particularly in rural areas. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government provides more financial assistance and suitable transportation, preferably 4x4 motor vehicles, to all the constituency offices to be used in outreach and sensitisation programmes.

Sir, your Committee is pleased to note that the Parliamentary Service Bill has been passed by the House. This is a major milestone in the implementation of parliamentary reforms. I, therefore, congratulate you and the whole House on this achievement.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I thank you for appointing us to serve on this Committee and guiding us in our deliberations during the Committee’s meetings. Further, I extend my gratitude to all co-operating partners for their support to the parliamentary reforms. Finally, I extend my appreciation to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the able manner in which they serviced your Committee throughout the period under review.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder with to speak now or later?

Mr I. Banda: Now, Sir.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, in seconding the Motion, which has been ably moved by the Chairperson, allow me to comment briefly on your Committee’s report.

Sir, the sensitisation of the public on the roles of constituency offices and functions of hon. Members of Parliament was anchored on a communication strategy that ran from 2011 to 2015. As part of the rolling out of the strategy, Irish Aid supported a number of activities aimed at increasing members of the public’s understanding of the work of the National Assembly and how they can appropriately participate in parliamentary processes. For example, three road shows were held in Lukashya, Katombola and Lufwanyama constituencies while feedback workshop was held on the 2014 National Assembly Community Radio Programme, which provided an opportunity for eighteen community radio stations to give feedback on programming and identify areas for improvement in the future. The National Assembly also runs a programme on Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Television called Parliament and You. There are also plans for the establishment of Parliament Television here, at National Assembly, and expand the coverage of Parliament Radio. In this regard, your Committee is of the view that although many achievements have been attained, much more can be done if more financial and logistical support is provided, as earlier stated by the mover of the Motion.

Mr Speaker, on capacity building for hon. Members of Parliament, your Committee observes that the interventions target only selected Committees and hon. Members of Parliament. Your Committee recommends that all Committees and hon. Members of Parliament be targeted in the implementation of the Strategic Plan. Your Committee also notes with satisfaction that the National Assembly management has already started sending staff and hon. Members of Parliament to the Centre for Parliamentary Studies and Training (CPST) in Kenya for training. Early last year, for example, some members of staff were trained at the CPST in strategic planning and implementation. Further, five hon. Members of Parliament and one member of staff were trained in taxation in Tanzania through a programme facilitated by the CPST. Your Committee recommends that the CPST be considered for inducting new hon. Members of Parliament after the Presidential and General Elections to be held in August, 2016. Further, your Committee requests the National Assembly management to send a few officers and hon. Members of Parliament to the CPST to be trained as trainers in various disciplines so that they can, in turn, train others when back home. That will localise the training.

Mr Speaker, regarding the Parliamentary Budget Office, your Committee observes that members of the Committees on Estimates; Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour; Health; and Community Development and Social Services are almost always being briefed by staff in the Parliamentary Budget Office on issues related to the National Budget. Unfortunately, other hon. Members have not been assisted to build their capacity to analyse the Budget. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that all hon. Members be helped to understand the intricacies of the National Budget by the officers in the Budget Office. The office should lead the way in making hon. Members of Parliament more effective and efficient in providing checks and balances on the National Budget as they debate it.

Mr Speaker, in concluding my remarks, allow me to state, in no uncertain terms, that your Committee is grateful to our co-operating partners for the various parliamentary projects being implemented by the National Assembly with their support. Finally, I wish to request the National Assembly management to speed up the construction of offices for hon. Members of Parliament at the National Assembly premises.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I wish to say a few words in support of your Committee’s report.

Mr Speaker, ever since the modernisation of Parliament started, …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Muntanga: … we have looked forward to its acceleration. We started with changing a number of things, such as the dress code. For example, initially, visitors to the National Assembly were required to wear suits and ties, but that requirement has been relaxed.

Mr Speaker, I urge the Executive to pay attention to the points raised by the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee. There is a critical need for hon. Members of Parliament to be trained in national budgeting for them to understand how the Executive prepares the Budget so that when they come here to approve it, they can point out any areas in need of review or enhancement. We are aware that the Budget is prepared by various Government departments and the final document is brought here to be passed by hon. Members of Parliament, who do not participate in its preparation. In fact, I ask that hon. Members be trained in all spheres of participation in Parliament. In this regard, it is very important that support services to hon. Members of Parliament be enhanced. Currently, for example, the members of staff are not enough. If, for instance, an hon. Member of Parliament asks for some document to be prepared and printed, only one or two staff in a small office will be available to attend to him or her, leading to delayed service. Resources permitting, it would be appropriate to give each hon. Member more support staff so that they are able to prepare their work adequately. New hon. Members should not struggle to prepare their notes for debate when there is a research team that is supposed to help them. Perhaps, some hon. Members are not even aware that there is a research team that should help them prepare their work. 

Mr Speaker, the building of constituency offices for hon. Members of Parliament is taking too long. My constituency office was one of the first to be built and when Irish Aid officers visited my constituency, they went to my office and were impressed that I had built the office and ran it for five years without support from Parliament. Parliament is now building constituency offices, but not in my constituency. I still use my old office. Yes, it is my building, but why not reward my good initiative of establishing an office by building me a structure? Without an office, some hon. Members who are conditioned to only working in an office may not do any work.

Sir, some people believe in being street hon. Members of Parliament who can be found anywhere. When they go to their constituencies, they do not sit in their offices. I have never believed in being such a Member of Parliament. People should be made to understand the use of those offices because it is there that will able to sensitise people on the job of an hon. Member. The work of a Member of Parliament is misunderstood, with many people thinking that he or she is an automated teller machine (ATM) with infinite sums of money to give them whenever they demand it. They believe that he or she must drive a hearse or an ambulance, be a bank, run a social cash transfer scheme and provide bursaries for his or her constituents.

Sir, people do not understand that we come here to debate. That is why there is a need for Parliament to have a television station so that they can understand what happens here. The television project was started, but stalled. I am told that it is now being piloted. Additionally, having people standing in the Chamber and shifting their cameras from one angle to another to film us is not right. Some will stand the whole day today and one might collapse.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: These cameras must be mounted in strategic and unobtrusive places around this building. Those are the kinds of developments we need. Zambia had started this procedure much earlier than South Africa, but the cameras in the South African Parliament are now hidden. Why can the same not be done in Zambia? Now that we broadcast sittings live, we know that all the proceedings will be shown on television. Previously, the men and women of the press used to record the proceedings, but they would choose what to show. Anything deemed controversial by some people would not be shown.

Sir, another thing we must consider as we modernise the radio station is that it does not cover the whole country. So, in some areas, including some parts of Kalomo, which is on the line of rail, people do not know what is happening in Parliament because they cannot catch the signal. The only areas where people catch the signal are those near Zimba and Namwala. Those in the town centre would be lucky to catch it. So, we need to expand the coverage because it will help people understand what is happening in Parliament.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament funded? When Parliament opened the constituency offices, that is what the people thought. So, they come to us and ask for a cup of tea when I do not even drink tea in my office, but just talk to the people. Our people expect us to give money to the office staff and to see fridges in our offices, but there is nothing. We have to improve those offices because they represent Parliament in the constituencies.

Sir, we should also improve the procedures here by reducing on the amount of paper we use. Look at this Order Paper. We have been talking about switching to the use of Internet Pads (iPads), yet they are still banned here. I am sorry I am showing one here (lifted an iPad) because one has to hide it. I did not even warn the hon. Member, who brought it in by mistake.
 
Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Sir, we need these gadgets because they are efficient tools for managing data and research. They are used in other parliaments, and when I tell my colleagues in other parliaments that we do not use iPads here, they ask me why and all I can tell them is that we do not use them because we want to concentrate on the business in the House because electronic gadgets can be a distraction. However, the truth, as we all know, is that we do not have them. So, we have to relax the restrictions a little. If a mobile telephone rings because, maybe, you have forgotten to switch it off, the officers here are quick to confiscate it. In one parliament I visited, the mobile telephone of an hon. Member who was next to the Speaker rang and he was able to just walk out and answer it. Here, we are too British in the way we do things. Even the gowns and ties we wear are too much. No wonder, when we get out of the House, we throw them away. We are tired of ties.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: No matter how smartly you dress, you are still chased to go and wear a tie even if you were in a hurry and forgot to wear one. We should not be tied to outdated practices that make us become like a class. Sometimes, we sit and it becomes so boring we almost fall asleep. I visited Britain, from which we inherited our system and was surprised to find that they make more noise than we do here and are generally more disorderly. We are more orderly even if you may think we are not. So, the modernisation we are learning from them is different. We are already modern if modernity is measured by how orderly we are.

Mr Speaker, we should not force people to come here in new suits and ties. Instead, we should allow them to wear anything smart.

Sir, as we assign hon. Members to the various Committees, we must do it with special consideration of their areas of specialisation like it used to be in the past. I know it is very difficult, but we should try. For the first time since I joined Parliament, I became a member of a Select Committee, but I did not know why I was selected. However, I also realised that some people there did not know how to look at issues properly. So, some selections are made improperly. Why do we not accord every hon. Member a chance to sit on some Committee instead of selecting the same group of people for five years?

Mr Speaker, Zambia’s participation in regional bodies, such as the Southern African Development Community Parliamentary Forum (SADC-PF), the Pan-African Parliament (PAP) and the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA), has been very good. In fact, if someone went out, but was unable to contribute effectively to any proceedings, people would wonder whether that person was from Zambia because this country is highly esteemed. So, this involvement should continue so that those who participate can share the information they get with the rest of their colleagues in the House. Our hon. Members should know what the SADC-PF, PAP and CPA are doing. Many things happen at PAP, but very few hon. Members understand what is going on, including the laws being passed. That is not healthy because only a few people in the sub-region understand what is going on.

Sir, the training of hon. Members of Parliament should be enhanced to improve the quality of their participation. We are doing a good job in training the staff, whom I have noticed are being sent for training quite often.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I thank the mover and the seconder of this Motion, which is about reforms and modernisation. So, let me start by defining the two terms.

Sir, modernisation implies that Zambia should move from old to new things. In doing that, we need to compare the way Parliament was from the beginning, when Zambia was ruled by the colonial masters, through the United National Independence Party (UNIP) and Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) eras to the time the Patriotic Front (PF) took over and, then, see what is coming in the future. We need to know if we have achieved anything or not and this is an agenda that we should propel on our own. 

Mr Speaker, Parliament Radio has done a lot of justice to this country. So, if it extends its coverage from the provincial headquarters to the remote parts of the country, Zambians will appreciate what their representatives do when they come here.

Mr Speaker, you are aware that we spend most of our time here, yet most of our people are too illiterate to know how we represent them. They do not know how the Government works and whether it listens to us or not. That can only be remedied by improving radio and television coverage. The rate at which Parliament Radio’s coverage is spreading to the provinces is commendable although it can still be accelerated in the rural parts of the country. That is modernisation. This time, we cannot only rely on the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) because it is very biased and does not echo everything that goes on in Parliament. It only covers what the Ruling Party is doing. Parliament Radio, on the other hand, is fair because it represents every hon. Member of Parliament’s view.

Mr Speaker, the report also addresses the construction of offices in the constituencies and Ikeleng’i is one of the constituencies benefiting from the exercise. At least, that is something positive because those offices are crucial to development, just to echo Hon. Muntanga. We all know that some hon. Members of Parliament have worked in good offices before yet, even in Lusaka, it is a problem for an hon. Member of Parliament to have a letter typed. Members of Parliament are honourable people and their position is above that of an ordinary person. However, if you look at their plight, you will be shocked to find that they cannot even be visited by their counterparts from other countries because they do not have proper offices. Only those appointed to ministerial positions have decent offices. It is even difficult for an hon. Member of Parliament to find where to sit and write something. Even our rooms at Parliament Motel cannot be used as work areas because they are as small as the cubicle I occupied in secondary school. We cannot accommodate even a single visitor in those rooms.  Why do we not have offices like our colleagues in other countries in the region? People may look at it as an expense, but that will be a motivation to us. So, we should stop paying lip service to issues and start moving from one stage to another. We should also take stock of our progress every five years. 

Sir, Let me also talk about capacity building, which is another important area in this country. Today, we have computers even in schools. However, how many can operate the Internet Pads (iPads) about which Hon. Muntanga talked in this Parliament? It is only a few hon. Members and this is a clear demonstration of the capacity building we need for both our officers and hon. Members of Parliament. We should, at least, reach a certain level of communication and research competence so that we are well informed in our debates.

Sir, the reforms and modernisation should raise the status of Zambian hon. Members of Parliament to that of others in the region. We should not have hon. Members who are completely blank and do not even know their entitlements. The hon. Member of Parliament should know their contractual terms from the first day of their engagement. They should also know the ‘dos’ and ‘don’ts’, which should be printed for them to understand. A situation like this, whereby Parliament is being dissolved and the hon. Members of Parliament do not even know whether their five-year terms have actually been completed, is very undesirable and results from a lack of contractual obligations in the system. The five-year tenure of Parliamentarians is very long. So, hon. Members need to be accommodated just like any other person who has been offered a job. It is not good to imagine a well-respected hon. Minister of Finance becoming an ordinary Back Bencher and finding him or herself unaccommodated with only his or her house in the village on which to depend. Such a person would have to start commuting to Lusaka for Parliamentary meetings and back to the village when Parliament is dissolved.

Sir, the conditions of service for hon. Members of Parliament have not been clarified, yet we talk of modernisation. The conditions also need to be reviewed every five years. We need to know where we are coming from and where we are going. We should also know whether the hon. Members are motivated and happy or not. If they are murmuring, we should know why. In fact, I think that it is better for the Speaker and his team to tour all the constituencies, whenever they have the time, so that they can see the facts in the constituencies and how they are responding to the reforms. These issues are critical because we need to reform to the expectations of the people in the region.

Mr Speaker, without boring you, I wish we had a way of compelling your office to help us move forward. This is an era in which everything is being modernised. I congratulate you on the discipline of this institution, which is the most disciplined in the Government. I have worked in the Government for many years, but the discipline and transparency in Parliament is exemplary. If all Government wings operated like Parliament, it would have been good. In that regard, I wish to disagree with Hon. Muntanga’s sentiments on the dress code of this House. I do not support the idea of allowing people to come here casually ...

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: … dressed because some people would not dress appropriately. They would come in embarrassing attire.

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: An hon. Member should dress respectably.

Sir, we also murmur about transportation challenges. We must heed our hon. Members’ cries so that we can motivate them and help them to be very effective because the job they do is just that of being a conduit of development to their constituencies. Currently, people cannot even let us keep the money we earn because they think we own the Bank of Baroda (BoB) or Bank of Zambia (BoZ). We also need to be encouraged spiritually and morally so that we can perform very well. The people in our constituencies do not understand that we merely represent them. Instead, they also want us to raise their standards of living. So, we need to be remunerated properly so that we move with our people. Otherwise, we will be alienated from them.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, from the outset, I commend the report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee.

Sir, when we talk about modernisation and reforms, what should come to our mind is improvement of certain activities, undertakings and practices.

Mr Speaker, one other aspect I want to be improved is that of communication. Those who spoke before me have already mentioned the introduction of live television broadcasts, which is a step in the right direction. Since its introduction, I have received some comments from the people because they are able to see how hon. Members of Parliament discharge their functions. This simply shows that they follow and appreciate our business. Unfortunately, in the very rural constituencies that some of us represent, television is a luxury that most people cannot afford. Maybe, in the future, when I am retained as area Member of Parliament, I will buy a television set and install it in a Welfare Hall, which I would also have to build, so that those who care to can watch the deliberations of Parliament when it is in session. The area is also not electrified and, even if the people can buy television sets and solar panels, there is no television reception to enable them to watch the proceedings of the House.

Mr Speaker, I also commend your Committee on the extra facilities that they have requested to be added to the design of the constituency offices. Let me just add that a library would be a very important addition because it is like a granary of information for those who want to improve on their knowledge. So, people should be able to go to the library and read on the things that may not have been broadcast. For example, if somebody whispers to them about something the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry said in the House, they should be able to go to the library and check out such information. Therefore, it is very important that libraries be built in the constituencies, especially in mine. I do not know whether there are libraries in our constituency offices. Certainly, in Luena Constituency, I hear it mentioned, but I have not seen a room built for that purpose. The libraries should be identifiable by having things like shelves, books and related things, not just an empty room and a few things stuck on the floor in one corner. So, the improvements in the constituency offices should also focus on the infrastructure, such as having proper libraries that even hon. Members of Parliament can use whilst in their constituencies. Like Hon. Muntanga said, some documents are a nuisance here, if I am allowed to use that word. So, I propose that some of them be taken to the libraries in our constituencies so that those who are interested can find out what the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee or the Public Accounts Committee said on a particular issue. I took a copy of the Public Accounts Committee to my constituency office, but I am sure that if you went there, you would find it in a corner on the floor somewhere because there is no proper library furniture.
 
 Mr Speaker, I also suggest that the constituencies be provided with office equipment. I do not know whether this also happens in other constituencies, but if I want to photocopy a document in my constituency, I have to go to a shop in a market at Limulunga, a very small place that I can hardly call a town. There, a copy is in the range of 50 Ngwee to K1.50 because there is no competition. One is at the mercy of the one service provider. Currently, I cannot send any urgent document to my constituency office because it does not have a fax machine.  Even the computers there were not working for some time and are not connected to the Internet. So, I cannot scan a document and send it through e-mail, which is a pity. Therefore, it is very important that these facilities be improved upon. The real meaning of reform and modernisation is that we move in tandem with the modern times and developments.

Sir, transport is also important and I know that our offices were given motorcycles. The House will recall that at the beginning of this session, I mentioned that the solution to our transport challenges should not be based on a one-jacket-fits-all approach. Unlike the terrain in Kawambwa or Lusaka, the one in my constituency and Mongu in general is sandy. Therefore, we cannot be given the same kind of motorcycles as those given to people in terrains with hard ground. One of my constituents fell off the motorcycle and she has not touched it again from that time. So, when she wants to tour the constituency, she waits until I am in the area to give her a lift, yet those offices are supposed to be active in undertaking awareness campaigns on the duties and responsibilities of their hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central mentioned how people perceive the hon. Members of Parliament as automated teller machines (ATMs), bursary dispensers and other such things. If our offices were equipped with the right facilities, the local people would know the actual duties of their hon. Members of Parliament. For example, I know that whereas, in Zambia, Parliamentarians are expected to buy coffins when there are funerals, in the United Kingdom (UK), they are expected to, for example, intervene when their people are deported. The second scenario reflects the real job of a Parliamentarian. When someone in our constituency is treated unfairly, we can assist him or her. For example, if there are people in the constituency who have not been paid their terminal benefits, they can seek assistance from us. They should know that we are not there to pay their children’s school fees and other things. Two days ago, I was interviewed on a local radio station and asked what I had done in the constituency. When I mentioned the projects I have implemented using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and other resources, somebody whose portfolio I will not mention, but who works in the Government, said that the projects to which I had referred had been implemented by the Patriotic Front (PF).

Laughter

Ms Imenda: So, I had to educate that person on what the Government was and informed him that the PF, United Party for National Development (UPND) and Alliance for Democracy and Development (ADD) are political parties during election campaigns, but once a political party wins, it forms Government. I was elected on a party ticket, but when I became a Member of Parliament, I joined the legislative branch of the Government. I had to educate them on the three arms of Government and discovered that there are many things on which our people need to be educated. If such ignorance can be exhibited by somebody who works for the Government, then, I can say ― I reserve my comment.

Laughter

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I want to say that in future, the process of allocating the CDF must be changed. It can still pass through the current process of allocation and approval through the councils. However, I believe that the disbursement of monies to projects should be done through the constituency offices. For example, there were some urgent projects demanded by the community in my constituency and we still had some money. So, we decided to use it for those projects. For some strange reason, however, the council failed to release the money and I only learnt about it recently. I think that even what happened in Rufunsa would not have happened if that was to be the case. As the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i mentioned, our Parliament is a model of honesty, hard work and dedication to duty. So, the constituency offices would equally not let us down because they are part of this good work culture. Money would not be misused like it is currently.

Sir, with those words, I support the Motion.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: By agreement of the parties, the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central will debate instead of the hon. Member for Siavonga.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Thank you, Sir. I will be very brief because the report is very straightforward.

Sir, let me begin by saying that, to me, the opposite of modernisation is really primitivity. I have, time and again, stressed this idea regarding the accessibility of Parliament facilities. I think that Parliament must be all-inclusive. We know that some members of our society who may need to access this Chamber either as hon. Members of Parliament or visitors, may fail because they are physically challenged and may be in wheelchairs or on crutches. However, since this Chamber was built, no one has found it fit to create ramps for them. I remember that the late Mr Lazarus Tembo, a blind musician, became an hon. Member of Parliament in the First Republic.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of visitors, again, it is a general rule that they must observe a certain dress code to be able to access Parliament and listen to the people who represent their aspirations. I think that needs to change because there are people who cannot afford a pair of shoes in our society, yet they have voter’s cards and send people to represent them in Parliament. When they want to witness what goes on in the Chamber, they must be allowed with or without shoes. One can say that the dress code demands the barest minimum, but there is poverty in this country. That requirement is similar to the scandal of eliminating people who have not attained a certain level of academic qualification from aspiring to be representatives, yet those who are allowed to contest still have to be voted for by those who are disqualified. I think that we need to balance out all that.

Sir, the hon. Members of Parliament should have offices. At least, every part of the divide should be given an office or two in the Central Administration. Currently, hon. Members of Parliament are forced to crowd in one small cubicle called the Members’ Room, where they queue up as though we were still in the bygone days when we used to queue for sugar, mealie meal and cooking oil. I think that there should be, at least, three or four meeting rooms for hon. Members. Some meetings are private and cannot, therefore, be held in the lobby. Earlier today, there was a queue of hon. Members of Parliament who wanted to be interviewed by the media in the Members’ Room. Surely, we can improve on that. In some countries, such as Kenya, every hon. Member of Parliament has an office.

Mr Speaker, let me also talk about the accommodation of hon. Members at the National Assembly Motel. We have, on many occasions, talked about this, but it is a double-edged sword at which people must look more positively than negatively. There is an unwritten rule that entitles hon. Members of Parliament to a room at the National Assembly Motel. However, not every hon. Member wants to occupy a room there because the cost is equivalent to renting a house elsewhere. About half of the living allowance that an hon. Member gets is paid directly into the Motel account when some hon. Members do not even stay in their rooms. If my figures are correct, the K250 that is paid to the Motel every day adds up to K7,500 per month. I think that we can use the K7,500 to rent decent houses and bring our families when we come to Lusaka, especially those whose constituencies are very far from Lusaka and would like to come with their families. However, it should be required that we rent the houses or flats in approved safe neighbourhoods. I know that in the past, before many of us came here, that was attempted, but some hon. Members went for the lower end of the real estate rung and, half the time, ended up in trouble. So, it can be agreed that hon. Members do not rent houses that go for less than K5,000 a month. For that amount, one can find a decent two bed-roomed house or flat with a kitchen and living room. So, that should be looked at very seriously.

Mr Speaker, let me also talk about developments related to the Constitution. In the new Constitution, we sought to include a clause to allow hon. Ministers to be appointed from outside Parliament. That was aimed at enforcing the doctrine of the separation of powers among this Legislative Assembly, the Executive and the Judiciary. If we had passed that amendment, Chairpersons of Committees would also enjoy a certain level of importance in exercising oversight over the Executive. Currently, Committee chairpersons do not have any clout at all. In some jurisdictions, the Chairperson of the Committee on Estimates, for instance, is on the same level as the Minister of Finance. So, I think that we lost an opportunity when we failed to pass that amendment.

Mr Speaker, I also wish to address the issue concerning the position of Leader of the Opposition. In our Parliament, there is a numerical threshold that a party must meet in Parliament to qualify to appoint the Leader of the Opposition. I recall that before the Patriotic Front (PF) mutilated the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD), the MMD had sufficient numbers to appoint a Leader of the Opposition in the House and the position was given to Hon. Mutati. We all fell under his authority and he enjoyed some privileges, including being given an office and a motor vehicle. That is the way it should be. However, the representation threshold might be a little bit too high. If the threshold was reduced to thirty, that would be enough for the Opposition to have a leader to co-ordinate its activities and enjoy the attendant benefits. In the case of the current situation, in which the MMD and the United Party for National development (UPND) are the Opposition, we would just need to add our numbers. What we are trying to do is build the capacity of leaders. So, I think that we need to pay attention to that.

Mr Speaker, the other issue that I would like to talk about is that we are operating under a Westminster System that has since been abandoned by Westminster. While we insist on the one-question-per-Member rule, in Westminster, hon. Members are allowed to ask, at least, two follow-up questions. Further, if an hon. Minister does not have an adequate answer and decides to avoid answering the question by behaving as if he or she understood the question differently, as is often the case, an opportunity is given for a follow-up to be made. In this House, we have been guided to pass our questions to our colleagues when we have exhausted our opportunities. However, no person can ask a question on behalf of someone else exactly the way the originator would ask it. So, I think that we must move towards allowing each hon. Member to ask, at least, two questions so that we get satisfactory responses and take the pressure of constantly diffusing conflicts off the Chair. It would also take some pressure off the Chair. Clearly, there have been times when an hon. Minister has failed to answer a question and we have depended on the Speaker’s discretion. That has sometimes disadvantaged the Speaker because he has sometimes made rulings that do not go in favour of one group and the disadvantaged group has concluded that he is biased. So, either way, he is damned. I think that the burden should be removed from the Chair by allowing hon. Members to ask a second question when their first question has not been responded to adequately.

Sir, let me also talk about the thirty minutes allocated to the Vice-President’s Question Time, which I believe is half what it should be. I am of the view that an hour is what would be sufficient for that segment. Just like is the practice in Parliaments that have modernised or alighted from primitivity, such as the South African Assembly, once in a while, the President should also be brought to the House and made to respond to questions from hon. Members because he superintends over the public affairs of this country.

Hon. UPND Member: Not in the Speaker’s seat.

Mr Nkombo: No, next to the Speaker.

Sir, the President is the one who makes the state-of-the-nation address during the Official Opening of Parliament. So, he must be interrogated on the issues he raises in the speech. The questions must be put straight to him.

Mr Muntanga: Ino kayi?

Mr Nkombo: If the President is just the beneficiary of the ingenuity of some civil servants when spelling the vision of the country, that would be a good time to catch him. He must buy into the vision he propagates.

Sir, I think that the administration at the Zambian Parliament needs to also look at the issue of introducing health insurance for the Members of the next Assembly because that is the standard practice everywhere else. Hon. Members can be compelled to subscribe to an insurance scheme so that they do not have to clamour for service at the Fast-Track Very Important Persons (VIP) Section of the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). Insurance schemes for hon. Members of Parliament are the modern way of doing things. When I married my wife, I was told that she was mine to have and to hold until death did us part and that we were one from that day. I have since sired some toddlers in my marriage who are not entitled to treatment at the Fast-Track VIP Section. Only my wife and I are entitled to that facility. If we were to subscribe to a family insurance scheme, however, I am sure that my children would be covered, too.

Mr Speaker, whenever we debate a Motion, the trend has been to allow Opposition hon. Members to exhaust their debates before the Floor is given to the hon. Members on the right. I have looked at the Standing Orders to see whether that practice is provided for, but I have not found the provision anywhere.  Maybe, I should ask your office afterwards to check for me so that we are on the same page. I would like to know where it is actually written that the hon. Members on your left must exhaust their debate before you give the Floor to the right. In the modern world of competing ideas, I think that we should debate in a see-saw-like fashion because as hon. Members on your right radiate their ideas, the hon. Members on the left want to respond to them. Further, the final speaker on a Motion must not necessarily be the hon. Minister of the relevant portfolio being debated. In fact, I think that it would be more meaningful, exciting and synchronised if we allocated the Floor back and forth between the two sides during a debate on an issue.

Sir, the final point I would like to raise is that in modernising our Parliament, we need to create an avenue through which the Legislature can compel the Executive to present certain Bills to the House, especially when hon. Members are suspicions about how a particular matter is being handled, because the primary responsibility of this House is to make laws. I say this because this Assembly is about to be dissolved.

Sir, we have been pushing the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to present the Freedom of Information Bill to this House, and we know that it has been ready for a very long time. We also know that there are apprehensions about this Bill, but we do not have a way of compelling our colleagues to present it here. As a matter of fact, during the last engagement we had over this matter, the hon. Minister of Justice indicated that the Draft Bill was still being cleaned up by the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, and that it would, hopefully, be presented for enactment before Parliament was dissolved. I think our colleagues have not been very truthful because that Bill is ready and just lying on the shelves at the Ministry of Justice. That is why documents leak like the Draft Constitution did. The Executive should know that a copy of the Freedom of Information Bill was sent to me by an anonymous person who wanted to show that the people in the Executive are not being truthful on the matter. If I say the hon. Minister of Justice is not very honest, I know that you will stop me and say that I am casting aspersions on a colleague. Nonetheless, I still think that we need to be an effective Parliament. To do that, there must be some gearing effects. We do not have to wait for you to make a ruling that compels someone to present a Bill to this House because you do not have those powers either.

Sir, I emphasise that our primary job is to enact laws and that we should have a means to do that. If we wanted to be naughty, for instance, we could present a Private Member’s Motion with the same content as the copy of the Freedom of Information Bill that I have in my possession and see what our colleagues on your right would do. I am sure they would shoot it down the way they want to shoot down the referendum.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to make a few comments on the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee. I also thank the mover and seconder of the Motion, and the hon. Members of the Committee for the well-written report.

Mr Speaker, the reform and modernisation of this Parliament is an on-going process that has learning curves and successes. Let me comment on some of the recommendations made by several hon. Members of Parliament.

Sir, Hon. Muntanga pointed out the need to increase the number of support officers for hon. Members of Parliament at the constituency offices and enhance capacity building programmes for them, especially in the area of budget analysis. He also called for the widening of Parliament Radio’s coverage and liberalisation of the use of information and communication technologies (ICTs) in the Chamber. Hon. Muchima pointed out that Parliament Radio’s coverage is impacting well on the electorate. He also stated that more information should be provided to hon. Members of Parliament regarding their status and wellbeing. Hon. Imenda, on the other hand, talked about the need for improvement in communication, and the need to set up libraries in constituency offices and equip the offices with modern technology. Finally, Hon. Nkombo has talked about improving access to Parliament facilities, especially for people with disabilities. He also advocated for a relaxation of the dress code, and the need to provide hon. Members with decent accommodation and health insurance. He went on to state his wish to catch the President unawares when he comes to address the House.

Mr Speaker, we welcome the calls for Parliament to be modernised, but it is also important for the institution to retain its decorum. As for the people’s perception of the role of their Members of Parliament, it is generally that Parliamentarians should be everything to the people they represent.

Mr Speaker, the Government has taken note of the various recommendations that have been made on the Motion on your Committee’s report and I thank all the hon. Members who have made these constructive contributions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

That is reform.

Laughter

Mr Katuka: … let me start by thanking all the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate on this Motion. Most of the issues that they have raised are pertinent and have been covered before in our reports.

Sir, my appeal is that what we adopt as a House be implemented. We adopt reports, year in and year out, but we keep having challenges regarding their implementation.

Mr Speaker, at the rate we are going, it will take us twenty years to complete the construction of all the 150 constituency offices. My appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance, therefore, is for him to make it a one-off project so that we complete the construction of all the offices simultaneously and within a short time. Otherwise, given that what is modern today will not be tomorrow, if we take twenty years to implement the project, we will be overtaken by events.

Mr Speaker, most of your hon. Members find it difficult to visit their offices because the electorate do not understand our role. Most hon. Members of ...

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Mwinilunga!

I just wish to remind you that you are winding up debate, having already presented the report, which has been debated. It needs to move on from where you left off because it will not end here. It does not always do that because there is a process.

You may continue.

Mr Katuka: Much obliged, Mr Speaker. I was just commenting on the few remarks that were made by the hon. Members who debated the Motion.

Sir, let me conclude by thanking the hon. Members who debated the Motion and Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning for their contributions.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to.

__________

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE POLICE PUBLIC COMPLAINTS COMMISSION BILL, 2016

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be read a second time.

Mr Speaker, the Police Public Complaints Commission Bill, No. 12 of 2016, was necessitated by Constitutional Amendment No. 2 of 2016. The creation of the Police Public Complaints Commission (PPCC) aims to address the challenges faced by the Police Public Complaints Authority (PPCA), which limited its ability to perform its functions efficiently and effectively, resulting in an accumulation of cases. These included the following:

(a) a  lack of an independent legal framework;

(b) a lack of adequate establishment;

(c) a lack of skills in case management; and

(d) the part-time nature of operations of the members.

Sir, the PPCA was an oversight institution under the Ministry of Home Affairs created under the Zambia Police (Amendment) Act No. 14 of 1999. Its functions were to:

(a) receive all complaints against police actions; and

(b) investigate all complaints against police actions which resulted in serious injuries or death of a person.

Mr Speaker, the main purpose of creating the authority was to ensure that complaints against the police were investigated without undue influence or interference and in an impartial manner.

Sir, the PPCC will now have the following:

(a) an independent legal framework;

(b) adequate staff; and

(c) full-time members.

Sir, the ministry’s vision is to have a nation where justice and the rights of citizens are protected and upheld. The enactment of the Police Public Complaints Commission Bill will help to address most of the challenges that the PPCA had been facing in executing its mandate.

Mr Speaker, I, therefore, urge hon. Members of this House to support the Bill.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, in accordance with the terms of reference provided for in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Police Public Complaints Commission Bill, No. 12 of 2016. In order to gain insight into the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee sought oral and written submissions from various stakeholders, including the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ).

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has included some background notes to this Bill. Therefore, I will go straight to the salient aspects of the Bill.

Mr Speaker, the specific provisions that the stakeholders and your Committee felt needed to be dealt with included the provisions for all full-time members of the commission to be appointed by the President. While it was recognised that it is important for the President to appoint the commissioners, as provided for in the Bill, the stakeholders observed that the commissioners will have the important role of ensuring that the police respects human rights in its operations. Police officers have to do their work efficiently, but under the Laws of Zambia. Therefore, it is recommended that when the President appoints the commissioners, the National Assembly of Zambia must ratify them. The oversight role of Parliament must be extended to the appointment of the commissioners. It is also recommended that the provision be amended to provide for the submission of the names of appointees to the National Assembly.

Sir, your Committee also felt that it was necessary to deal with some areas of the commission to make it more effective and efficient.

Mr Speaker, Clauses 5(2) and 5(3) specify the qualifications for appointment as commissioner, Chairperson and Vice-Chairperson of the commission. The stakeholders felt that in addition to the listed qualifications, the commissioners must be sponsored by professional organisations to ensure that they are of good standing in society.

Sir, Clause 5(6)(f) provides that any member of the commission may be removed by the President on grounds of dishonourable conduct, dishonesty or fraud. Your Committee observed that the sub-clause and the Bill generally do not provide the procedure for the removal of any member from the commission. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that such a procedure be specified in the Bill in order to insulate commissioners from unwarranted or arbitrary removal.

Mr Speaker, Clause 9 provides for the appointment of the Secretary and other staff of the commission. However, it does not identify who will be responsible for their remuneration. Further, the Bill does not stipulate the qualifications of the Secretary and the other officers. Your Committee is of the view that the Secretary, being the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the commission, will be a very important person in the commission and, therefore, deems it important that the qualifications for the position be specified in order to ensure that the right person occupies the position. Your Committee also recommends that the remuneration of the officers of the commission be the responsibility of the Remuneration Commission and that the Bill specifies that.

Sir, the other provision that your Committee considered was Clause 11, which requires the commissioners to declare interest when a matter before the commission involves a relative or an associate. It further provides that a commissioner who fails to do so commits a prosecutable offence and, if found guilty, will be liable to pay up to 200,000 penalty units or two years imprisonment. At the current rate of 30 Ngwee per penalty unit, a person who is convicted of this offence will be required to pay K60,000 or be imprisoned for two years. Your Committee and the stakeholders felt that this penalty is excessive and should be moderated.

Mr Speaker, Clause 17 provides for a person to continue a complaint on behalf of a deceased person. The stakeholders noticed that under this provision, the complaint might be made by a personal representative, member of the family or other suitable person. The contention is that the term ‘suitable person’ has not been clarified. Therefore, the Committee wondered who would determine the suitability of such a person and recommends that only a personal representative or relative be given the right to continue or commence a complaint on behalf of a deceased person. Therefore, the words, “Or other persons suitable to represent the deceased person,” should be deleted from the Bill.

Sir, the other provision of concern to your Committee was Clause 19, which makes provisions for the consideration of complaints, but does not provide the time frame in which the commission should deal with a complaint. Your Committee recommends that six months be specified as the period in which the commission must complete its investigations and get back to the complainant.

Mr Speaker: Order!

_________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

Mr Speaker: As the time is now 1255 hours, we have to break off for lunch. However, before we do so, I have an announcement to make on the arrangements that have been made regarding our lunch, which are as follows:

(a) the lunch break will be from 1300 hours to 1415 hours;

(b) the House will resume sitting at exactly 1430 hours;

(c) hon. Members will have their lunch in the restaurant here, at Parliament Buildings while members of staff and ministry officials will have their lunch at the Members’ Motel;

(d) transport for staff and ministry officials to and from the Members’ Motel will be available at the main entrance to Parliament Buildings; and

(e) lunch for hon. Members, staff and ministry officials will, as usual, be provided courtesy of the Hon. Mr Speaker.

I urge all hon. Members to be punctual. In this regard, I request the party Whips to ensure that the quorum is formed at 1430 hours.

Thank you.

Business was suspended from 1257 hours until 1430 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to state that Clause 19(7) makes it a criminal offence for a person to make a frivolous or vexatious complaint …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: … to the commission.

Sir, your Committee observes that whereas this provision is intended to ensure that only complaints with substance or merit are taken to the commission, it is likely to make potential complainants apprehensive and less likely to make complaints. Your Committee is also astounded by the stiff punishment that the clause prescribes for those who make complaints perceived to be frivolous and vexatious without stipulating who is to determine whether a complaint is vexatious or in bad faith and what criteria will be used to arrive at such a conclusion. So, your Committee recommends that the entire provision be deleted.

Mr Speaker, Clause 21 provides for the commission to write a report and make recommendations to the various reporting lines provided in the Bill.  However, it does not make the recommendations mandatory. Your Committee further notes that this provision is weak if it does not derive its power from Article 241(d) of the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act No. 2 of 2016, which provides, in part, that:

“The commission shall take measures to ensure that state institutions and other persons comply with its decisions.”

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the clause be made to conform with Article 241(d) of the Constitution of Zambia. 

In conclusion, Sir, your Committee is grateful to you for your guidance and for giving it the opportunity to scrutinise this Bill. It also thanks all the institutions that made submissions on the Bill. Finally, it thanks the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the support it was given, which ensured that its work was completed successfully.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I thank your Committee for its report to this august House.

Mr Speaker, the report raises issues to do with the ratification of members of the commission by Parliament, appointment of members to the commission, the process to be used by the President to remove a member of the commission and the excessiveness of the penalty for failure to declare interest in any matter before the commission. We have taken note of the concerns of the Committee and we will seriously consider all the issues that have been raised.

Sir, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 11th May, 2016.

THE INDUSTRIAL DESIGNS BILL, 2016

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mrs Mwanakatwe): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to make my statement in support of the Industrial Designs Bill, 2016. Let me start by expressing my gratitude to your Committee for the good work it did in reviewing the Bill and facilitating consultations on its fundamental aspects.

Mr Speaker, from an intellectual property perspective, industrial design is concerned with the ornamental or aesthetic aspects of a product. It refers to a design that takes a form of features, shape, pattern, ornament or composition of lines or colours applied to any article, whether in two-dimensional or three-dimensional forms, or in both. The National Intellectual Property Rights Policy emphasises the need to recognise and protect various forms of intellectual property, including industrials designs.

Mr Speaker, the current legislation on industrial designs, the Registered Designs Act, Cap 402 of the Laws of Zambia, was enacted on 1st December, 1958 and, although there have been amendments to the law, its substance has remained unchanged in spite of developments in industry at the national and international levels.

Sir the Government recognises that in order to encourage innovators to invest in industrial designs, there is a need for accessible, modern and effective legal protection for their design rights. The Government notes that the current business environment and the commitments made by the country in international platforms, such as the World Trade Organisation (WTO), require that intellectual property legislation on industrial designs be updated and amended. In this regard, the Industrial Designs Bill seeks to protect the intellectual property rights of an original design with the aim to reward the innovator for research and labour applied to evolve a new and original design whilst bearing in mind the business environment and Zambia’s obligations at the international level.

Mr Speaker, the Bill is part of the Government’s programme to create a legal framework that will effectively safeguard the interests and rights of, and be an incentive to innovators and creators of industrial designs. The specific objects of the Bill include the following:

(a) to encourage the creation of designs and development of creative industries through enhanced protection and utilisation of designs;

(b) to provide for the registration and protection of deigns;

(c) to provide for the rights of proprietors of registered designs; and

(d) to provide for the restriction, publication and communication of registered designs;

(e) to provide for contractual and compulsory licences and the use and acquisition of registered designs by the Government;

(f) to give effect to the 1883 Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property, the Harare Protocol on Patents and Industrial Designs adopted on 10th December, 1982, the World Trade Organisation Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS Agreement) of 1994 and any other relevant international treaty or convention to which Zambia is party; and

(g) to repeal and replace the Designs Act of 1958.

Sir, the Bill has been structured in such a way as to be accessible and affordable, including to micro, small and medium enterprises.

Mr Speaker, the Bill, once enacted, will be administered and implemented by the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, through the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA). My ministry will also formulate and promulgate regulations for achieving the objectives of the Bill. Implementation will also involve the updating of the Industrial Property Automation System (IPAS) in order to align it with the provisions of the new law. Further, the Government will facilitate the capacity building of PACRA to ensure effective implementation, and ...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!

Mrs Mwanakatwe: ... undertake outreach and awareness campaigns in the business community and other stakeholders once the new law is enacted.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, let me emphasise that the protection of industrial designs is important in stimulating innovation and creativity in the industrial and manufacturing sectors as well as in traditional arts and crafts. It also contributes to the expansion of commercial activities and export of national products. These are some of the results that the Government anticipates with the enactment of this law. I, therefore, commend the Bill to the full support of the hon. Members of this House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as provided in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Industrial Designs Bill, No. 17 of 2016. In order to appreciate the ramifications of the Bill, the Committee sought oral and written submissions from various stakeholders.

Sir, your Committee fully supports this Bill, as do most of the stakeholders who appeared before it.

Sir, your Committee notes that protecting an industrial design rewards creativity and encourages economic developments. Above all, it ensures protection against unauthorised copying or imitation of the design. This is because consumers often take the visual appeal of a product into consideration when choosing between different products.

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the object of the Bill is to grant industrial design rights granted to creators of the designs, and reward them for their effort and investment in the manufacturing of the product. These rights will enable the owners to make articles to which the design is applied or in which the design is embodied. The Bill further guarantees the holder of the legal title exclusive rights to make and sell any objects to which the design is applied. This will enable the holder to authorise others to exploit the design and bring a legal action against those who use it without authorisation.

Sir, whilst your Committee supports the Bill, it also shares the apprehension of some stakeholders that the provision giving the right to register a creation developed by an employee in the course of duty to the employer will be counter-productive, as it will hamper the creativity of employees. Your Committee, therefore, proposes that the rights be given to the employer only on condition of an agreement being reached between the two parties.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also observes that the approach of the Government to the law on protection of intellectual property rights is to have separate laws for each aspect. Your Committee has, in addition to the current Bill, recently dealt with the Integrated Circuit Designs Bill and the Protection of Traditional Knowledge, Genetic Resources and Expressions of Folklore Bill. There are also other laws on trademarks, patents and copyrights. Your Committee is concerned with the proliferation and piecemeal legislation of these laws, which can lead to various challenges in the implementation of the laws. Your Committee, therefore, agrees with the stakeholders who hold the view that studies should be undertaken to consider the possibilities of harmonising all intellectual property laws and bringing ...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the Front Bench!

If there is a very pressing issue you need to discuss, just step outside. It is very difficult for me to concentrate and fight this disorder as well.

Mr Nkombo: ... under one umbrella law.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, your Committee is grateful to you for granting it the opportunity to scrutinise the Industrial Designs Bill No. 17 of 2016. It also thanks the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the usual support rendered to your Committee throughout its deliberation. Your Committee is also indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary briefs that made it possible for this report to be presented to this House.

I thank you, Sir.
Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, I thank you for appointing this Committee to review the Bill. As I said earlier, the current law was enacted in 1958. So, this is really the ideal time for us to revise it and keep it abreast of international best practices. I also thank the Chairperson of the Committee, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central, for the good report he has presented on the Bill.

Sir, I have taken note of the areas in which the Committee felt a need for some changes, one of which is the need to safeguard the rights of inventors over their creations when in the employ of someone else. In that regard, I am happy to say that the concern is well-taken care of in Section 45(1) and (2) of the Bill.

Sir, the need to harmonise the laws on intellectual property with international best practices is one of the reasons we have separated the laws so that they are very specific to the various types of industries to which they are applicable. Putting all the provisions together into one piece of law would actually be against international best practice.

Mr Speaker, with those few comments, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 11th May, 2016.

THE JUDICIARY ADMINISTRATION BILL, 2016

The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Sir, the Judiciary Administration Bill, as the title suggests, seeks to:

(a) revise the law relating to the administration of the Judiciary, and the appointment of judicial officers and staff of the Judiciary;

(b) repeal and replace the Judicature Administration Act of 1994; and

(c) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Sir, the object of the Bill is to provide for the better administration of the Judiciary.

Mr Speaker, this Bill is straightforward and non-controversial. I, therefore, urge the hon. Members to support it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as contained in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to consider the Judiciary Administration Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 18 of 2016. In its review, your Committee considered various submissions on the Bill, whose objects are:

(a) to revise the law relating to the administration of the Judiciary;

(b) to make provision for the appointment of judicial officers and staff of the Judiciary;

(c) to repeal and replace the Judicature Administration Act of 1994; and

(d) to provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that most of the provisions it introduces are a result of the changes brought about by the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act, No. 2 of 2016. Having considered the various submissions and concerns raised by stakeholders, your Committee recommends that the Bill be supported by the House.

Mr Speaker, cognisant of the fact that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, your Committee recommends that every piece of legislation must be in conformity with the Constitution. In this regard, your Committee strongly recommends that the provisions in Clauses 5 and 8 of the Bill be amended and re-aligned with the provisions of the Constitution of Zambia. While appreciating that Article 146(1) of the Constitution of Zambia provides for the appointment of a Chief Administrator, whose functions and qualifications shall be prescribed, your Committee also observes that Clause 5 of the Bill only provides for the functions, leaving out the qualifications. Your Committee contends that the failure to specify the qualifications in the Bill is at variance with the Republican Constitution. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the qualifications of the Chief Administrator be specified in the Bill.

Mr Speaker, another of your Committee’s concerns is on Clause 8(2)(f), which provides that the Chief Registrar shall advise the Government on matters relating to the judicial profession. This provision is also at variance with Article 136 of the Constitution of Zambia, which stipulates that the Chief Justice is the Head of the Judiciary. Your Committee, therefore, strongly recommends that Clause 2(f) be deleted to bring the Bill in conformity with the Constitution.

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that the Bill provides for the recruitment of Research Advocates in Clause 13. However, it also notes that their role has not been defined. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Bill be amended to clarify the role of Research Advocates.

Sir, all in all, your Committee is in support of the Judiciary Administration Bill, National Assembly Bill, No. 18 of 2016, subject to the proposed amendments to Clauses 5 and 8.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by thanking all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee for their valuable input into the findings of the Committee. I thank you for affording your Committee the opportunity to consider the Bill. My gratitude also goes to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to your Committee and to myself for ably chairing the Committee.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I thank the Chairperson of the Committee for ably chairing it, …

Laughter

Dr Simbyakula: … and for his lively debate.

Sir, we have taken note of the observations made by the Committee and we shall move the necessary amendments at an appropriate time.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 11th May, 2016.

THE ELECTORAL COMMISSION OF ZAMBIA BILL, 2016

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Electoral Commission Bill be now read a second time.

Sir, the Bill seeks to:

(a) provide for the membership, functions, operations and financial management of the Electoral Commission of Zambia ECZ), in accordance with the amended Constitution of Zambia;

(b) repeal and replace the Electoral Commission Act, 1996; and

(c) provide for matters connected with or incidental to, the foregoing.

Mr Speaker, this Bill is straightforward and aimed at enhancing the effectiveness and efficiency of the ECZ in carrying out its mandates, thereby promoting the democratic tenets of transparency, accountability and good governance in our country. I, therefore, urge all the hon. Members of this House to fully support it.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for affording me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Electoral Commission of Zambia Bill, No. 20 of 2016.

Sir, on Wednesday, 26th April, 2016, your Committee was tasked by the House to scrutinise the Bill. In line with that mandate, your Committee consulted various stakeholders, who made both written and oral submissions before it.

Mr Speaker, all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee supported the Bill, but I hasten to point out that they also raised a number of concerns on some provisions of the Bill. Allow me to highlight only a few of the concerns.

Sir, one concern of your stakeholders that caught your Committee’s attention relates to Clause 4(2)(j), which provides for the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) to establish and maintain liaisons and co-operative relationships with political parties. The stakeholders were concerned that other electoral stakeholders, such as the media, the civil society and the security forces, have been omitted and recommended that the omitted stakeholders be included.

Mr Speaker, the stakeholders further expressed concern that Clause 5(1) provides for full-time commissioners appointed by the President, subject to ratification by the National Assembly. They contended that the President was an interested party in the outcome of elections administered by the commission and, therefore, should not be involved in the appointment of the commissioners. The stakeholders proposed that commissioners be appointed by a panel of Judges set up by the Chief Justice in consultation with key stakeholders, subject to ratification by the National Assembly.

Sir, one of the objects of the Bill is to provide for the membership, functions, operations and financial management of the ECZ. The importance of this Bill can, therefore, not be over-emphasised, as the commission is in the forefront of ensuring free and fair elections. As we are all aware, free and fair elections are the cornerstone of a functioning democracy. Further, the success of an election is largely dependent on the work of the agency that administers that election and the public’s perception of that work. For this reason, your Committee supports the Bill. Having analysed all the concerns raised by the stakeholders, it makes some observations and recommendations that I will now highlight.

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes, with great concern, that neither the Constitution of Zambia, as amended by the Constitution of Zambia Act No. 2 of 2016, nor the Bill, has specifically provided for the autonomy and independence of the ECZ in carrying out its functions. While Article 76(1) of the Constitution of Zambia, Cap. 1 of the Laws of Zambia, explicitly provides for the establishment of an autonomous electoral commission, Article 229 of the Constitution of Zambia, as amended by the Constitution of Zambia Act No. 2, of 2016, is silent on the matter, which is against international and regional best practices. Therefore, in order to ensure that the commission has autonomy in carrying out its functions, your Committee recommends that Clause 4 be amended as follows:

(a) the marginal note to Clause 4 should read: “Independence and Functions of commission”;

(b) insertion of the following new sub-Clause (1), which should read: ‘(1) The commission shall be autonomous and shall not in the performance of its functions be subject to the direction or control of any person or authority,’ and

(c) re-numbering of sub-Clauses (1), (2) and (3) as (2), (3) and (4).

Sir, your Committee also observes that Clause 5(2) provides for qualifications for appointment as Chairperson of the ECZ, and that the Bill is silent on the qualifications of the other members of the commission. It is your Committee’s considered view that all the members should be people who inspire public confidence and are capable of managing the electoral process effectively, thereby enhancing and protecting the integrity of the commission and contributing to the entrenchment of democracy. Those appointed to serve as members must be of a certain standard of education and standing in society. In light of this, your Committee recommends that the qualifications of all the other members be set out in the Bill. Further, in order to give leeway to the appointing authority to cast the net wider when searching for a suitable candidate, Clause 5(2) should be replaced with Section 4(4) of the Electoral Commission of Zambia Act No. 24 of 1996, which states:

“The Chairperson shall be a person who has held, or is qualified to hold high judicial office, or any other suitably qualified person.”

Sir, Clause 5(4) provides that a member of the commission shall hold office for a term of seven years and may be re-appointed for the same term. This implies that a commissioner can serve a continuous term of fourteen years. Your Committee is concerned with this provision, especially since the mischief it is trying to cure is not known. The sponsoring agency of the Bill was also not able to convincingly explain the rationale behind the provision for a further term of seven years. Your Committee believes that limiting the term of office could promote the constant generation of new ideas through new appointments. In this regard, your Committee recommends that Clause 5(4) be deleted and replaced with the wording of Section 5 (1) of the Electoral Commission Act No. 24 of 1996, as follows:

“A member of the commission shall be appointed for a term not exceeding seven years, subject to renewals and ratification by the National Assembly provided that the first members shall be appointed for periods ranging from two to five years in order to facilitate retirement by rotation.”

Sir, Clause 5(6)(f) implies that members of the commission would serve at the pleasure of the President, as it empowers him to remove any member without giving reasons. This threatens the security of tenure of office of the members. Additionally, it contradicts regional best practices, which require members of electoral management bodies to have their security of tenure enshrined in the law in order to promote their autonomy. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the circumstances under which the President could remove a commissioner and the procedure for that be set out in the Bill to avoid arbitrary removals. The procedure should be similar to that applicable to the removal of a Judge.

Mr Speaker, Clause 6(7) permits a member of the commission who is unable to attend a meeting of the commission to nominate another person from the organisation the member represents to attend such a meeting. Your Committee’s understanding is that the members serve on a full-time basis and, therefore, their nominations are not transferable to proxies. Your Committee, therefore, concurs with the stakeholders that proxies should not be allowed in meetings of the commission due to the sensitive nature of its business, and recommends that this clause be deleted.

Sir, Clause 13 provides immunity to members and officers against proceedings for actions taken or omitted to be taken in good faith in the performance of duty. Your Committee is aware that this is a new provision in the proposed legislation, as the Electoral Commission of Zambia Act, No. 24 of 1996, has no such provision. Your Committee is further aware of the debates surrounding the immunity of members and the protection it gives against their arbitrary and potentially politically-motivated removal from the commission, and the need to enable the elections management body to carry out its duties efficiently and fearlessly. Your Committee is, however, concerned that this clause is susceptible to abuse and raises the question of how the conduct of the members and staff are to be checked. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the clause be deleted from the Bill so that the possibility of the commissioners’ conduct being subject to public scrutiny and legal proceedings can be motivation for professionalism in their conduct.

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that Clause 14(2) empowers the commission to accept grants or donations from any source within or outside Zambia and to contract loans for the discharge of its functions. Your Committee is of the view that the commission should not be allowed to receive money and contract loans directly, as that is the function of the ministry responsible for finance. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government funds the commission adequately to eliminate any need for it to contract loans. The conduct of electoral events is a core function of a democratic State. Therefore, the Government must remain the primary source of funding for the management of all electoral events.

Sir, Clause 18 provides for the protection of privileged reports from being produced in any legal proceeding, unless so directed by the chairperson or a court. Your Committee is, yet again, of the view that this clause is too open-ended, susceptible to abuse and against the principle of transparency, whose absence from an electoral process invariably leads to the suspicion of fraud. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the clause be deleted from the Bill.

Mr Speaker, your Committee urges the hon. Members of this august House to, through this legislation, enhance the integrity and credibility of the electoral process and promote widespread acceptance of election results by enabling the ECZ to conduct electoral events in an independent and impartial manner. Your Committee, therefore, remains hopeful that the hon. Members will find the contents of its report useful as they debate the Bill, and prepare to rise tomorrow and to move to the other side after 11th August, 2016.

Sir, in conclusion, I pay tribute to all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee. I also thank you for affording your Committee the opportunity to study the Bill. My gratitude also goes to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to your Committee.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Monze Central, do you mean that your Committee will move to the other side?

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: We shall appoint them, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to debate the Bill. My contribution will be very brief.

Sir, from the outset, let me say that I fully support this Bill and the recommendations of your Committee. As I do so, however, I have a few comments on some issues raised by some stakeholders, one of which is that of the powers of the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), which are not indicated in the Bill.

Sir, some time back, the ECZ distributed a very good Electoral Code Of Conduct. However, the commission lacked the power to effect the code. It is in this vein that I urge Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning to ask the Government to consider giving the ECZ powers to deal with violations of the Electoral Code of Conduct.

Mr Speaker, let me also comment on the qualifications of the commissioners below the Chairperson of the ECZ. I do not think that it is right to have a learned Chairperson who is supported by a changanya team. A changanya team is one made of every Jim and Jack. I recommend that the qualifications of all the commissioners be equal or almost equal to those of the Chairperson. This is because in the absence of the Chairperson, the Vice-Chairperson will act on his behalf. However, if the Vice-Chairperson is under-qualified, it will be difficult for him to chair meetings.

Mr Speaker, let me also comment on the autonomy of the commission. The cry of the people in the country, the region and the world over is that for democracy to be enhanced, the institutions that conduct elections should be autonomous. Therefore, it is paramount that the ECZ is autonomous. Otherwise, whatever it does will raise suspicions, and that will dent our democracy. Related to the concern about the autonomy of the commission is the appointment of commissioners by the President, which means that they serve at his or her pleasure. I suggest that this be discouraged because those who will be appointed will not be independent in their actions. They will be susceptible to being manipulated because of their lack of security of tenure of office. Even when they act independently, there will always be suspicion of manipulation by the appointing authority. So, their tenure of office must be secured. Additionally, if the appointment of the commissioners has to be ratified by the National Assembly of Zambia, then, even their dismissal must be sanctioned by Parliament or, as suggested by your Committee, let it be done the way Judges are removed. As you are aware, the activities of the ECZ are very emotive and it is in this vein that we want an autonomous body, not one whose members will always be afraid of being dismissed if they did not toe the line of the appointing authority. The men and women who serve on the commission should be those who are not intimidated or afraid for their tenure of office.

Mr Speaker, it is important that this House and the Executive, including Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning, support the recommendations of your Committee, as they are valid and important. In this regard, I appeal to my colleagues that we should not make laws to please ourselves in our current positions because we will not be in these positions forever, yet the laws are supposed to stand the test of time even when administrations change. Our colleagues will be on the other side one day and will cry foul when some bad laws they may have created are applied against them. So, we must enact laws that will safeguard our collective interests so that we are safe whether inside or outside the Government.

With those few remarks, I beg to support your Committee’s submissions.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to support this Bill and your Committee’s recommendations very strongly.

Sir, this Bill concerns all of us here and it will underpin the conduct of our elections, as it will regulate the operations of the referee.

Mr Speaker, I reiterate what Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning said, that this is a straightforward Bill. However, I stress the fact that it will only be straightforward if the recommendations of your Committee are taken on board.

Sir, your Committee has recommended that the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) be autonomous. Therefore, I appeal to the Executive to consider making the proposed amendments. We do not want to create a Diramba-like body to referee our elections.

Mr Speaker: Order, Hon. Muntanga!

What is Diramba?

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: He is the referee who officiated in a biased manner in a football match between Zambia and Senegal.

Hon. Members: Morocco!

Mr Muntanga: Sorry, Sir, between Zambia and Morocco. We will never forget Diramba because he was very biased against Zambia, and we do not want to have an electoral commission that will be likened to him.

Mr Nkombo: Jean-Pierre Diramba.

Mr Muntanga: Sir, the commission should be able to superintend over elections and the President of the country. Please, do not misquote me. I am not talking about the current President specifically, but about the Republican Presidents generally, because they are interested parties and participants in every electoral process. How do you ask if …

Hon. Government Member: Ba Muntanga, imwe …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Muntanga: For example, how do you, the Speaker, superintend over a match between National Assembly Football Team and Mufulira Wanderers or ask the National Assembly management to appoint the referee?

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Obviously, the referee would favour the National Assembly Football Club. That is the whole point I am making. I am not targeting an individual.

Mr Speaker, let me also talk about the appointment of ECZ commissioners, on which your Committee has made very good recommendations.

Sir, if Judges are appointed commissioners of the ECZ and we, the political players, have disputes amongst ourselves, we will go to the courts for arbitration. However, will the Judges help in the matter if they are also commissioners? I know that lawyers are in the same fraternity and discuss issues in corridors to make decisions.

Mr Nkombo: Ku club.

Mr Muntanga: Yes, ku club. There is a social club for Judges and they discuss cases.

Sir, if you bring up a case against the Chairperson of the ECZ, who also happens to be a Judge, how would you hope to win? I request that we make this commission independent so that whenever we have disputes, we go to someone we believe is neural for adjudication.

Sir, your Committee has proposed the deferment of some clauses, and I am sure that Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning has been following. It has also proposed the deletion of clauses 6, 7, 13 and 18. However, we should also look at the other proposal of not giving one of the players the power to appoint and suck the referees at will. How do you do that? In this case, the President is a player, yet we have given him powers to sack commissioners of the ECZ without giving any reasons, which will make the public question the autonomy of the commission.

Mr Speaker, there is another thing I wanted to see in the Bill and I hope it will be addressed later. I am talking about the Electoral Code of Conduct, which is also supposed to be revised. Currently, the Chairperson of the ECZ has told us that the use of mobile telephones will not be allowed in totalling centres, yet we have been talking about modernising our systems. Why should someone, just on account of being in charge of a counting centre, have the right to deny us the right to use our telephones? What kind of thinking is that? What does the ECZ want to hide? This, already, is an indication that the referee has sensed some uneasiness among some players. A referee who bans spectators at a football game must tell the people what about the game he is trying to keep them from seeing. So, I urge this referee, the ECZ, to listen to the people because it is not above the people for whom it is refereeing. The players are more important. If the players boycott, for example, the referee will have no job to do. Equally, if, by some misfortune, a fight erupts among the players, the referee will also be beaten in the process. So, the ECZ should listen to the political parties taking part in the forth-coming elections. It should care about their interests and opinions.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Now, we are legislating.

Mr Muntanga: Yes, Sir, we are legislating. However, the things about which I am talking are not in this Bill. I am looking through the Bill, but I cannot see them. So, I am reminding the officers at the ECZ that what they have been talking about is not in this Bill. In the next two days before we rise, I want to see ―

Hon. UPND Members: One day.

Mr Muntanga: In the one remaining day, I want them to show me a regulation that forbids individuals from having cellular telephones at a polling station. Otherwise, the ECZ should not give itself extra powers.

Sir, while we fight for the ECZ to be autonomous, we also want it to be given all the money it needs so that it does not need to beg. That way, it will handle our elections in a free and fair manner.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, I am certain that Article 29 of the amended Constitution is what necessitated the presentation of this Bill to the House and that its enactment is important for the functioning of the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ).

Sir, going by your Committee’s report, the various stakeholders who were called upon to make submissions raised many concerns over the Bill. Further, your Committee has made several recommendations that ought to be taken into account because the ECZ is a very important body. In this regard, I agree with the hon. Members of Parliament for Kasempa and Kalomo Central constituencies that being the referee in a contest in which the victors will be given the responsibility to run the affairs of the nation, the commission needs to avoid or resolve some controversies and disagreements. The mandate to run the affairs of the people must be granted by the people without controversy.

Mr Speaker, much as we are in office today, we should look beyond ourselves and think about the people who will take our positions in the future. As such, what we do today must not have negative implications for those who will come after us. Otherwise, our successors will judge us harshly. For instance, Clause 14 of the Bill addresses the commission’s funding and allows it to get funding from anywhere or anyone. I think this is dangerous for the nation because at some point, some people with some vested private interests may attain undue influence over some commissioners by sponsor the commission or promising to do so.

Mr Speaker, is the provision for the immunity of ECZ commissioners meant to protect them from being prosecuted if they engage in corruption? I ask this question because money donated by some people with shady backgrounds might corrupt the commissioners and plunge this country into conflicts, divisions and total chaos, like it has happened to several nations. We hear about the Arakat al-Shabaab al-Mujahideen and other terrorist groupings. So, are we saying that the commission can sell this country to any person with money? I think that the answer should be no. We declared Zambia a Christian nation. Therefore, we ought to do things in a Godly manner.

Sir, Zambia is not for a privileged few. Why should an official at the ECZ have immunity? If there are some electoral malpractices and the officials who are mandated to run the electoral process are immune to prosecution, whom will we hold accountable? How will we stump out the wrongs perpetuated by the officials we employ in public offices? We should not allow things that are good for those in the Government, but bad for those in the Opposition. Let us look at Zambia holistically. So, the funding of the ECZ through the Ministry of Finance is adequate. Why should the commission be the only one allowed to contract debts and receive donations from anywhere? We have not allowed the Teaching Service Commission (TSC) or the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC), for example, to accept donations from people, yet they could use donated money to pay salaries and fund other services?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, let there be equity, and we must think beyond ourselves and put this country first. Just as the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central said, a referee is supposed to be neutral and above board. However, when all the referees and assistant referees are appointed by one person, they are only answerable to the appointing authority, making the autonomy that we are trying to give to the commission meaningless.

Mr Speaker, I also agree with your Committee that the Bill should not have been presented a day before the dissolution of this Assembly. Had it been presented in the previous meeting, we would have asked the relevant hon. Minister responsible to take it back and refine it.

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Laughter

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, what we do today has repercussions for tomorrow. For instance, …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Namulambe: … I am one of those who stood here to debate the new Constitution when it was presented to this House without realising that it would create some complications in the future. Today, there are already many things in that Constitution that will make it fail to stand the test of time.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Similarly, if we do not heed the recommendations of your Committee, the Bill we are passing will increase problems and disagreements among us. So, let us make the recommended amendments to it. Zambians are listening to what we are doing today. Therefore, we should not be arrogant, but receptive to the sentiments of the stakeholders we invited to contribute to this process because wisdom is not vested in authority, but in listening.

Mr Speaker, we must realise that we cannot be so lucky as to always deceive others, like the Biblical story of the mother who killed a goat to make a fur coat for her favourite son so that he could receive blessings from his father. The man in the Bible might have been deceived for a purpose. However, this time around, we ought to always do things that are right in the eyes of God.

Sir, I take it that the recommendations of your Committee will be taken on board and that we will see amendments to the Bill in line with the stakeholders’ submissions to your Committee by tomorrow.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, in supporting this Bill and your Committee’s report, I just have a few issues that I would like to bring to the fore.

Sir, Clause 30(3) of the Bill requires candidates filing nomination papers before a returning officer to be accompanied by 100 supporters from each province and that the supporters be registered voters in their provinces.

Mr Speaker, this is progressive because it will weed out all the jokers who are unable …

Mr Mwiimbu: No!

Mr Speaker: Order, Hon. Mwiimbu!

Just wait. Do not say, “No”.

Hon. Member for Kawambwa, to which Bill are you referring? What is the title?

Mr Chilangwa: The Electoral Process Bill of 2016, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

We are not looking at that Bill yet.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Sir, in commenting on the amendments recommended by my colleagues, I want to be very categorical. Listening to some of them speak, one would think that Zambia has never held any election, yet we have done that for the last fifty years. In fact, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) has been recognised as one of the most competent electoral commissions in Africa.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Ema hon. Members aba.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, when talking about the ECZ being autonomous, we must guard against picking things from the streets or magazines because we could end up promoting things that will haunt us. We must also be careful about what we want to copy from other countries. What are we trying to cure here when the current electoral system has worked very well for this country? When Dr Kaunda presided over this country, we know very well how the electoral commissioners were appointed and it was the same during the reigns of Dr Frederick Chiluba and Dr Levy Mwanawasa, SC. It has been a continuous process.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, it does not matter who is in State House. Our Presidents have played the game very well. Were that not the case, there would have been no change of Government in this country.

Mr Kampyongo: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, even as we play to the gallery by saying that the ECZ is not autonomous, it is imperative that we be honest with ourselves and acknowledge that the commission has stood the test of time and been there for this country. Therefore, we must support it in its current form. Of course, not everything is perfect. For example, we have been grappling with the question of whether the campaign period should start prior to nominations. However, we can deal with such issues in-house. They do not warrant calls for autonomy to be given to the ECZ, which is already autonomous. For example, it has been able to announce elections results even when the incumbents have lost. Therefore, it is not true that an incumbent President is able to manipulate the commission for purposes of remaining in power.

Mr Speaker, with those very few remarks, I support your Committee’s report.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to make some brief remarks on the Bill on the Floor of the House.

Sir, having just approved the new Constitution, I think that it was inevitable that we consider this Bill, and the timing is good. Therefore, I thank the hon. Minister for presenting it to Parliament. Unfortunately, each time there is any very important legislative work to be done, such as was the case with the amended Constitution and this Bill, my friend, the hon. Minister of Justice over there, always chooses to present it very late in the meeting. We had many days to comfortably, but exhaustively debate this important Bill instead  of glossing over it due to limited time. Now, we risk making mistakes that have the potential to create problems for this country. I also thank the Chairperson of your Committee for the excellent work the Committee has done. He said that he is waiting to go to the other side of the House and, in the very likely event that he ...

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us avoid that.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I have given guidance on this before. We have very limited time and a lot of material that the Committee has presented. Comment on that.

You may continue.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I will not fail to do so.

Sir, let me focus on the issue of the autonomy of the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ).

Sir, autonomy is not a new concept in this country, as there are a number of institutions in the country that have asked for autonomy in the execution of their roles in society. Here, in Parliament, we pride ourselves on being autonomous in one way or another in the manner we conduct our business, and so does the Judiciary. I know that even institutions like the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) speak about their need for autonomy for them to perform their functions properly. However, when we talk about autonomy for the ECZ, what do we have in mind? What is the acceptable degree of autonomy? I ask this question because there is no such thing as unlimited autonomy.  Even here, in Parliament, it has been said repeatedly that autonomy is not unlimited. The same can be said for the Judiciary and BoZ. So, when we talk about the autonomy of the ECZ, what do we want to see? My colleagues who debated before me have spoken about some aspects of autonomy. Hon. Muntanga, for example, talked about autonomy in the refereeing role. I want to talk about financial autonomy.

Mr Speaker, from some of the provisions I have seen, I fear that some aspects of the financial autonomy being indicated here or, perhaps, not even mentioned have the potential to violate other provisions of the law. For example, I hope that when we talk about financial autonomy, we do not mean that once the commission receives money from the Treasury, it has the autonomy to spend the money on anything it wants. In procurement, for example, the commission cannot be above the public procurement regulations that relate to transparency and economy, as provided for, I believe, in the Finance Act. The fact that one is in an autonomous body does not absorb one from the obligation to adhere to the Finance Act. What I know is that if there is a tender running, for example, to print ballot papers or anything else, no matter how autonomous the institution is, be it the Judiciary, Parliament or any other, it is obliged to act in accordance with the Finance Act of the country. Otherwise, the people involved should know that it is just a matter of time before the law catches up with them.

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, let me pursue this further by specifically citing Section 14(4), which says that:

“The commission may, subject to the approval of the President ―”

Sir, I think that you can tell that I am not a lawyer because I am getting confused by these things. Let me read:

“The Commission may, with the approval of the President, invest in such manner as it considers appropriate such funds of the commission that it does not immediately require for the discharge of its functions.”

Mr Speaker, there is a provision somewhere in the Finance Act that provides that any investment of public funds be done with the express approval of the Secretary to the Treasury. However, we are now making the commission an exception from that provision by saying that it can just go to State House and ask to invest money in whatever way it wants. Does the President understand such things? Is there no risk of the President being pushed to allow investments into dubious ventures? Are we saying that we can rely on political power and say that because the President has approved, then it is all right? As I said, it is not like that and it cannot be. So, in my view, this provision must be deleted because the commission is a public institution just like Parliament, the army and the Ministry of General Education. So, we cannot have a situation in which the President can direct the ECZ to put its money in Meridian Bank or Standard Bank, for example. In my view, the provision is totally wrong and uncalled for.

Mr Speaker, we have to understand the autonomy about which we are talking and make it clear to the commission that it has limitations. In considering this Bill, we should ensure that we do not go against the laws we already have on our books just because it concerns the ECZ. Otherwise, we will set the officers in that institution up to have the police knock on their doors one day or another.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my word to this very important Bill. In this regard, I thank your Committee and, especially, the mover and the seconder. I have listened very carefully to their debates.

Mr Speaker, we should move Zambia forward.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: This country is very important to every citizen. So, we need to set internationally-recognised and accepted standards. In that regard, I totally agree with Hon. Muntanga that a referee must not set standards that favour one side because doing so would kill this nation.

Sir, Zambia was congratulated when President Kaunda peacefully handed over power to a new President after he lost the 1991 General Elections. The country was equally congratulated when President Banda peacefully handed over power when he lost the 2011 General Elections. So, we should continue to expect free and fair elections. When we lose elections, we should be proud just like we would be when we win because we lose nothing either way, as we are still Zambians.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Sir, the Constitution is our grundnorm in this country. It safeguards the interests of the publics. Zambia is greater than an individual. So, why are we making the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) so big and powerful that it can make pronouncements anyhow? Why should the ECZ be feared? Who put the officers at the ECZ in their offices? Whose interests are those officers serving? If some people in our society complain about something concerning the elections, why should an individual at the ECZ insist on going in a certain direction on that issue when we should look at having common goals? Let us look at the Constitution and avoid setting Zambia on fire because this country does not belong to an individual and no mind can be greater than the collective mind of our society.

Sir, we are representatives of society and should be proud when we stand here. In this regard, I am proud of this report that the Committee has produced because it is very sound. We should serve and protect our country by not enacting biased laws. One late President, may his soul rest in peace, once championed laws that were targeted at individuals, but he eventually fell victim to the same laws. Therefore, we must be careful with whatever we do in this country and work to leave a good legacy so that our children can rule us fairly tomorrow. When some people are in power, they want everything to favour them instead of putting in place systems that will favour society as a whole. A referee is supposed to be fair and unbiased. The ECZ now seems to control our society, yet there is no Constitutional provision that gives the commission, which should belong to every Zambian, so much power.

Sir, let us not destroy this country and erase the good reputation it has built in the last fifty years. We have to tread very carefully and not allow individuals to be more important than society. Any good leader should leave a legacy of peace whether he loses or wins an election. Look at how carefully President Obama is treading even as his tenure is coming to an end. He recently said that he wants to leave his table very clean for the person who will take over from him. He wants to make the country take the next step.

Mr Speaker, the interests of society should not be traded for cheap political interests. What is happening in this country ...

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member for Ikeleng’i!

Please, resume your seat.

I have been very patient with you, but I have to guide you. We have two things we are debating here, namely a Bill and the report on it. Firstly, the Committee has identified some issues in the Bill. Secondly, it has made some recommendations. So, it is difficult for me to allow you to continue debating at large like you have been doing. Initially, I assumed you were making introductory remarks, but what seemed like an introduction has turned out to be a sub-stratum of your debate. Please, focus on the Bill and the report.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Sir, we should seal the loopholes in our laws to strengthen them instead of weakening them. We should review our current laws to make them progressive instead of making biased ones. Let us remove the dangers that I am talking about. 

Mr Speaker, the ECZ is a very important organ of our society and I am compelled to talk about it because of what has been happening. Your Committee’s report is very progressive and its submissions should, therefore, be taken on board by the Executive so that we try them out. Laws should be made to appease society, not an individual.

Sir, your report is very clear. So, I urge this House and the nation at large to support its recommendations and the submissions of the witnesses. We have to adopt these recommendations and effect them so that we can be proud of this institution of our own making. 

Mr Speaker, as I do not want to waste a lot of your time, I will end with those few remarks.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Let me provide some general guidance.

We have a lot of work between now and the end of our business. We still have many reports, amendments and other business to consider. Let us read the reports so that we can centre our debates on the Bills, reports and the recommendations of the Committees, which have sat and done a lot of sterling work for which I must commend them. They worked right through the weekend. So, if, for some reason, we have not read the reports or the Bills and do not even know the Bills we are discussing, ...

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … let us give space to others to debate. They say that silence is golden. You do not lose anything by being silent and we have to be very efficient in the way we conduct our business. I know that there are many concerns outside, but we are here to look at the reports and the Bills. In doing so, one of our fundamental rules is that of relevance.

Your Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning, please, wind up debate.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, I thank the Committee and its able Chairperson for the elaborate scrutiny of the Bill.

Mr Speaker, an autonomous ECZ is the wish of every Zambian. Therefore, hon. Members should not be apprehensive of the unknown. We have taken note of your Committee’s recommendations and I assure the House that some amendments to this Bill are already being processed. They will be circulated in the House and moved at the Committee Stage. So, you can see the importance we attach to this Bill.

Sir, I thank all hon. Members for supporting this Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to the committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 11th May, 2016.

THE PASSPORT BILL, 2016

Mr Mwila:  Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be read a second time.

Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to make a statement in support of the Passport Bill, 2016.

Sir, hon. Members will recall that the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Act, No. 2 of 2016, was enacted and assented to by the Republican President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, which means that we now have an amended Constitution. In light of that development, the Government found it necessary to align the Passport Act of 2003 to the amended Constitution and remove some provisions that are no longer applicable.

Mr Speaker, the changes that have been proposed to the Passport Act No. 22 of 2003 are:

(a)  amendment of Section 2 to align it with Article 221 of the new Constitution;

(b) deletion of Section 6 as there is no provision for inclusion of children in the proposed Passport Act;

(c) deletion of the words “or secured the inclusion of the name of the child in the passport” from Section 8(c), as there is no provision in the proposed Passport Act for the inclusion of children on their parents’ or guardians’ passports;

(d) amendment of Section 11 to compel holders of diplomatic passports to expeditiously surrender them when requested to do so. This is so to prevent the misuse of diplomatic passports; and

(e) Section 19, sub-section 7 of the Principal Act …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to say that Section 19(7) was amended to provide for the lawful possession of two valid passports in line with Article 39 of the amended Constitution, which allows dual citizenship.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chenda (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as provided in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Passport Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 23 of 2016. In order to gain insight into the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee sought oral and written submissions from various stakeholders.

Mr Speaker, the object of the Passport Bill is to:

(a) provide for the vesting of powers and duties over the issuance and control of passports and travel documents;

(b) provide for the recognition of International Police (Interpol) travel documents; and

(c) repeal and replace the Passports Act of 2003.

Sir, your Committee and all the witnesses who appeared before it are in support of this non-controversial Bill. However, a few concerns are worth highlighting.

Mr Speaker, your Committee and stakeholders noted that Clause 2 lists the law enforcement officers who will administer the provisions of the Bill. However, it does not include immigration officers, whose job it is to monitor the use of the passports by citizens. The Stakeholders and your Committee observed that this exclusion makes it illegal for immigration officers to perform the functions provided under Clause 2. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that immigration officers be included in this provision.

Sir, Clause 2(a) refers to the rank of Sub-Inspector, which has been abolished by the Zambia Police Act. Your Committee deemed that anomalous. Further, your Committee noted that the restriction of powers to a particular rank is likely to pose operational challenges, especially considering that most of the work involved in the enforcement of the Passport Act will be done by officers at the rank of Sergeant and below. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the rank of Sub-Inspector be deleted from the Bill and that officers of all ranks be included in the enforcement of the provisions of the Bill.

Mr Speaker, your Committee noted that Clause 6(1) provides that the Chief Passports and Citizenship Officer may issue passports, diplomatic passports and travel documents. However, it agrees with the stakeholders that in addition to the above, there should be a provision for the introduction of service passports to civil servants, as is the practice in other jurisdictions. This will remove the need for issuance of diplomatic passports to various cadres in the Civil Service. It will also facilitate the processing of visas and foreign travel procedures for civil servants.

Sir, your Committee notes that Clause 13 provides for the surrender of passports, diplomatic passports or travel documents. It, however, does not specify the time frame within which this should be done, which will make it difficult to enforce the provision. Therefore, your Committee recommends that three months from the loss of status for which the document was issued be the time frame for its surrender.
 
Mr Speaker, in conclusion, your Committee expresses its gratitude to you for granting it the opportunity to scrutinise the Bill. It also thanks the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to it throughout the deliberations. Finally, it is indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary briefs.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I thank your Committee, through its Chairperson, for the report that has been submitted to this august House. I have noted all the concerns that have been raised in it and will act on them.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday 11th May, 2016.

THE PUBLIC AUDIT BILL, 2016

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be read a second time.

Sir, the Public Audit Bill of 2016 seeks to:

(a) enhance the independence and autonomy of the National Audit Office and strengthen its functions;

(b) provide a framework for promoting efficiency, accountability, effectiveness and transparency of public administration through effective oversight and audit of public funds and performance;

(c) domesticate the principles of the United Nations (UN) Resolution A/66/209 on promoting efficiency, accountability, effectiveness and transparency of supreme audit institutions;

(d) provide for guiding principles of public finance and performance audits; and

(e) provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the forgoing.

Mr Speaker, it is clear that the Bill, if passed, will promote efficiency, accountability, effectiveness and transparency of public administration at all levels. That will, in turn, ensure that public resources are managed prudently in order to accelerate the social and economic development of our country. It is in this regard that I solicit for the House’s support for the Bill.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, as provided for in the Standing Orders, your Committee was tasked to scrutinise the Public Audit Bill, No. 24 of 2016. In examining the Bill, your Committee invited selected stakeholders, namely the Ministry of Justice, the Policy Monitoring and Research Centre (PMRC), the Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants (ZICA), the Office of the Auditor-General and Transparency International Zambia (TIZ).

Mr Speaker, to start with, the object of the Bill is to update the audit legislation in view of the developments that have taken place since the enactment of the Public Audit Act of 1980. From its content, it is clear that the Bill seeks to repeal the Public Audit Act of 1980.

Mr Speaker, a number of terms have been introduced in the Bill, some of which are part of the powers that the National Audit Office, headed by the Auditor-General, will have. An example is the power to surcharge and disallow expenditure in Clause 26. So, in order to make the implementation of this clause more practical and avoid the misapplication of the law, it is important that the terms “surcharge” and “disallowance” be defined. Similarly, the statement of financial position in Clause 2 needs to be defined separately from the statement of comprehensive income.

Mr Speaker, the daily evolution of the world includes a change in the way things are done. It is, therefore, important to avoid provisions that may hinder progress by necessitating frequent amendments to the law. Your Committee, therefore, is of the strong view that the specification of forty-five years as the minimum age requirement for appointment as Auditor-General may not be necessary in the law and recommends its deletion.

Mr Speaker, in Clauses 16 and 23, the Bill has provisions for the President and the National Assembly to request the Auditor-General to undertake special audits. Your Committee is of the view that these provisions can be merged to read as follows: “The Auditor-General shall accommodate specific requests for investigations or audits from a Committee of Parliament or the Executive.”

Mr Speaker, your Committee observes that Clause 29(2), in its present form, is not consistent with Article 212 of the Constitution and Clause 30 of the same Bill, which requires audit reports to be submitted to the President and the National Assembly simultaneously. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the clause be amended to provide for special and interim reports to be submitted simultaneously to the President and Parliament.

Sir, there appears to be a new policy direction regarding funds in the custody of some Government institutions for which the institutions have no immediate use. Your Committee feels that in order to improve cash management, all such funds should be kept in a central account because not all institutions need their budgetary allocations at the same time. In fact, the introduction of the Treasury Single Account (TSA), under the Integrated Financial Management and Information System (IFMIS), is meant to facilitate that process of cash management. However, Government institutions, including the National Audit Office, are now permitted to invest any funds for which they have no immediate need, subject to approval by the hon. Minister of the relevant portfolio. Your Committee has strong reservations on this provision, as it has the potential to turn public institutions into investment agencies at the expense of their core mandate. In light of the above, your Committee recommends that any excess institutional funds be retired back to the Treasury and that if there be a need for investment, it should be done with the written approval of the Secretary to the Treasury, as provided for in the Public Finance Act.

Sir, in conclusion, your Committee expresses its gratitude to you for granting it the opportunity to scrutinise the Public Audit Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 24 of 2016. It also thanks the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the support rendered to it throughout its deliberations and pays tribute to all the stakeholders who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary briefs. Finally, let me take this opportunity to sincerely thank the members of your Committee on Estimates for their co-operation and support during the year. Without them, I would not have been able to execute my functions as Chairperson effectively.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, I thank the Committee for its report and recommendations, which will be taken into consideration and acted upon.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 11th May, 2016.

THE COMPENSATION FUND BILL, 2016

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be read a second time.

Mr Speaker, I have read the Report of the Committee and agree that there are some issues that require further interrogation and consultation. In the circumstances, I beg to move that the Bill be deferred for further consultation. It will be brought back at an appropriate time.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to. Leave granted.

The debate on the Bill, by leave, accordingly deferred.

THE HIGHER EDUCATION LOANS AND SCHOLARSHIPS BILL, 2016

The Minister of Higher Education (Dr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, allow me to give a synopsis of this Bill.

Sir, the introduction of the Student Loan Scheme was first proposed by the Justice Bobby Bwalya Commission of Inquiry in 1997. After the Government accepted the proposal, consultations with stakeholders commenced and led to the introduction of the scheme in 2004. However, there has been no specific law to guide the student loans’ disbursement, repayment and recovery modalities. The new legislation seeks to bridge that gap by introducing mechanisms and modalities for the implementation of an efficient, effective, more equitable and self-sustaining scheme for financing higher education students.

Mr Speaker, the objects of the Bills are to:

(a)  establish the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Board;

(b) establish the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Fund;

(c) provide for the granting, administration, investment, payment and recovery of loans;

(d) provide for the administration and granting of scholarships;

(e) facilitate the mobilisation of financial resources for loans and scholarships;

(f) provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.

Mr Speaker, the Bill proposes that the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Board be established to take over the role and responsibilities currently executed by the Bursaries Committee in administering loans and scholarships for higher education for Zambians in both local institutions and those abroad, and to effectively and efficiently operationalise the student loan scheme.

Sir, the Bill also proposes the establishment of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Fund in order to provide loans and scholarships to students who require financial assistance or are recognised for academic excellence. The students will be expected to pay back into the fund.

Mr Speaker, the Bill also provides general conditions for eligibility and empowers the board to establish specific conditions for the award of loans and scholarships. The Bill further provides for obligations of loans beneficiaries and their employers, and for the insurance of the loans against such risks as the board will determine. The insurance premium will be borne by the loan beneficiary.

Sir, the Bill provides for the board to be funded by Parliament through the National Budget. It also empowers the board to raise funds it may require for the discharge of its functions from other sources, including, but not restricted to, loan repayments, co-operating partners’ contributions and donations.

Mr Speaker, the Bill provides for the hon. Minister of Higher Education to establish regulations for tracing loan beneficiaries and modalities for the efficient recovery of loans. It further empowers the board to work with other statutory bodies, such as the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) and Immigration Department in establishing the loan recovery mechanism and beneficiary tracer system.

Sir, the Bill I am presenting today is part of the re-organisation of student financing and will particularly address challenges that students face through the provision of loans for tuition, accommodation and living costs in the form of a stipend. It is gratifying to note that the establishment of the board will provide a solid and sustainable framework for students financing.

Sir, allow me, now, to solicit the support of my fellow hon. Members on both sides of the House for this very important Bill, which will play a vital role in improving the quality of education by improving the welfare of students and, thereby contributing significantly to the development of our country.

 Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, your Committee considered the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Bill, No. 31 of 2016, referred to it by the House on Friday, 6th May, 2016. In order to appreciate the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee sought submissions from various stakeholders.

Sir, allow me to give a brief background to the Bill. Zambia has a Bursaries Committee, which was established by Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 182 of 1973 on the Education Act Cap 34 of the Laws of Zambia. However, the SI had not adequately provided for the repayment of the loans. In 2004, the Government introduced a student loan scheme. However, again, there was no supporting legislation to enforce the recovery of loans.

Mr Speaker, the bursaries scheme has become unsustainable due to, among other factors, the increased cost of, and high demand for, university education. For this reason, the presentation of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Bill is commendable.

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, all the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee supported the Bill. However, they expressed concerns on a number of issues. The concerns are recorded in your Committee’s report for the consideration of this House as they debate the Bill. Allow me to point out a few of them.

Mr Speaker, some stakeholders observed that the establishment of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Board was essentially a transformation of the current Bursaries Committee. They, therefore, expressed concern that this will continue to disadvantage institutions providing technical education because they are not covered by the current bursaries scheme.

Sir, the stakeholders also expressed concern over Clause 6(3), which empowers the hon. Minister to appoint the chairperson of the board, suggesting that the board be allowed to elect its chairperson to ensure its transparency and fairness. An appointed chairperson will not be effective because he or she will be susceptible to manipulation by the appointing authority.

Mr Speaker, the stakeholders noted that Clause 15 grants immunity to the members of the board, members of a committee of the board and members of staff in respect of an act or thing done or omitted to be done in good faith in the performance of any functions conferred by the Act. The stakeholders recommended that the clause expressly excludes such immunity from cases of professional negligence, as other laws do, to avoid absurdities.

Sir, your Committee also supports the Bill. However, it has made a few observations and recommendations. Let me highlight them.

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that Clause 6(1) provides for extensive public sector representation on the board. However, it observes that the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, which is a key institution in promoting equity and transparency in the loan approval process by assessing vulnerability and, therefore, eligibility among the students whom the loan scheme is targeting, is not represented. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the ministry be represented on the board.

Sir, your Committee further observes that membership on the board is by representation, but the level of representatives in their institutions has not been specified. Your Committee is of the view that the clause should specify the position that representatives should hold in their institutions. It should, for example, specify that ministries should be represented by Permanent Secretaries. This is meant to ensure that only officers with decision-making authority in their institutions sit on the board to make it effective. Your Committee recommends that the clause be amended to that effect.

Sir, Clause 20 gives the hon. Minister power to authorise investments in any venture. Your Committee is concerned that this authority might be abused for personal gain and recommends that the decision to invest be left to the board. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the clause be amended to read as follows:

“The board may invest any monies of the fund that are not immediately required for the purposes of the fund.”

Mr Speaker, let me emphasise that the Bill is progressive and non-contentious. Your Committee, therefore, urges the House to support the Bill and consider the contents of the report as it debates the Bill.

In conclusion, your Committee expresses its gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for giving it the opportunity to scrutinise the Bill. Appreciation also goes to the witnesses who made submissions before your Committee. I also commend members of your Committee and the Office of the Clerk for their dedication to duty during the consideration of the Bill.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Bill. I also thank the mover and the hon. Minister for presenting this Bill to the House. In supporting this Bill, …

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: … I have two issues to raise.

Sir, my first concern is about the composition of the board.

Sir, it is common knowledge that our public universities are not able to cope with the demand for education and skills training due to the inevitable increase in our population. However, a very important stakeholder is striving to complement the provision of higher education. For example, my best guess is that they enrol close to 30,000 or 40,000 students. So, I submit that private universities are an important stakeholder in the provision of tertiary education and propose that the hon. Minister considers appointing a representative of the Private Universities Association of Zambia (PUAZ) to the board. This will ensure that the interests of private universities are considered at the board level and make the decisions made comprehensive.

Mr Speaker, let me also talk about Part IV of the Bill, which deals with eligibility for loans or scholarships. As the Higher Education Authority (HEA) strives to standardise the quality of education in both public and private universities and with the introduction of the Joint Admissions Board (JAB), should the hon. Minister not consider permitting students who are granted loans or scholarships to choose the university at which to enrol so that they can free the much-needed lecture room and accommodation in public universities? After all, at the end of the day, the private institutions are striving to provide the human resource needed for the socio-economic development of our country.

Mr Speaker, those were the two issues that I wanted to raise on this Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for giving me the opportunity to make some comments on this very important Bill, which is long overdue. I also congratulate the hon. Minister of Higher Education on finally presenting the Bill to Parliament. It is a Bill for which many stakeholders, particularly in the higher education sector, have been waiting for many years.

Sir, it was the Bobby Bwalya Commission, way back in the Chiluba days, that first recognised the importance of having a student loans scheme in this country. For some reason, however, many years have passed without the Bill being actualised. So, I fully support it and expect it to change the way higher education is delivered in this country.

Mr Speaker, this Bill will essentially do the following things:

(a) improve financing of our students who, until now, have difficulties meeting their financial requirements owing to the fact that the current bursary scheme  has fallen short of covering all our students. You are aware that it is only Copperbelt University (CBU) and University of Zambia (UNZA) students who are currently entitled to the bursaries, yet we many of our children need higher education. So, one hopes that this Bill will eventually extend student finance to most of our students;

(b) improve learners’ environment. Currently, most of our universities suffer from chronic under-funding, as we all know. That is the reason the Bobby Bwalya Commission observed that one of the difficulties most universities faced was the charging of sub-economic fees. Now, we hope that the newly-launched board will allow universities to charge economic fees so that they can improve learners’ environments in terms of lecture rooms, learning materials and, generally, the facilities that go with offering quality education. So, one expects the introduction of this scheme to bring some money into the kitty of our universities; and

(c) end the chronic student unrest that has been a thorn in the flesh of many hon. Ministers of Higher Education, including Hon. Dr Kaingu. This is because money is at the root of most of the unrest. So, if the hon. Minister has solved that problem by introducing the Loans and Scholarship Board, then, we do not expect our students, who will now be responsible for looking after themselves and paying for their education after getting loans, to protest and cause trouble because of a lack of money.

Sir, it is on the basis of the three points above that I fully support this Bill, whose presentation to Parliament, I am sure, will be hailed as a momentous occasion by many stakeholders.

Mr Speaker, the Bill is just a set of broad principles. So, we expect more details on the guidelines for the recovery of loans and how the loan beneficiaries will be traced when they finally graduate and go into industry. I know that there is an eligibility mechanism in the Bill concerning this, but we need to know more. We need to know exactly who qualifies, considering the concerns raised by Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo. Will it only be those in the public universities or will those in private universities be included? Will all Zambians be entitled to get a loan here and go to study, for example, in Birmingham or Manchester? We keenly await those details. My only concern is that, in this country, we often come with good ideas that need money to be implemented, but we allocate too little or, sometimes, too late. The hon. Minister has mentioned that the board will be funded directly through the National Budget. So, we are yet to see how much funding it will receive. I hope that it will be enough to cover as many of the students who will need the loans as possible. Further, I hope that all the allocated money will be released and in time. We have seen fiscal years come to an end without most of the money appropriated to Government ministries here, in this House, being disbursed to the causes to which it was allocated. If that will be the case with the funding to the board, it will defeat the purpose of this noble Bill that has been presented to this House.

Mr Speaker, I promised to be brief. So, I will end by saying that I am a strong proponent of this Bill and I am very happy that it has been presented, albeit two days before the tenure of this House expires.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to add my thoughts to the debate on this very welcome and long overdue Bill.

Sir, some of the points I wanted to mention have already been mentioned. So, I will only talk about the awarding of scholarships.

Sir, I am not sure whether scholarships are currently really awarded on merit. When we currently see the children of the wealthy get Government scholarships to study abroad, is it possible to say that the selection is really done on merit? One wonders why things are like that because it defeats the purpose the scheme is supposed to serve. Currently, the poor parents are the ones who face a lot of stress when colleges open and, because they think we are the custodians of the scholarship fund, they bombard us with requests for help. So, we know what is on the ground. I do not know where they think we get the money from, but they come to ask for money saying, for instance, “My child has been accepted at Mongu Teacher Training College or the University of Zambia. So, hon. Member of Parliament, please, help me. I do not have anybody else to go to.” Sometimes, we get six or eight such requests, and the institutions of higher learning are not cheap. They charge K6,000 or K3,000 per term. Even when we do not have the money to help, we are still at pains to turn down such requests. So, it is stressful to us, the parents, the relatives and the students.

Sir, the other point I would like to underscore is one that has already been mentioned by the previous speaker, but I want to look at it from another perspective. There is a belief that giving out scholarship loans to students will reduce student riots and closures because it will help them to become serious and responsible. However, I believe that when you get something for free, you do not appreciate it. That is why students do not mind how long they stay at the university due to the frequent closures. If they had to pay back the money they got, they would be eager to complete, get jobs and start paying back the loans. In that regard, I suggest that there be a bonding agreement that students should be made to sign before they are given the scholarships so that when they complete their programmes, they can be made to work for the Government for the duration specified in the agreement before they can go elsewhere. We should not continue wasting money by sponsoring people abroad who just stay there when they finish their courses instead of coming back. Can you imagine sponsoring somebody to go and study medicine or engineering, courses that take many years, just for them to stay abroad after graduating. What would the country have benefited? So, we need sponsored students to sign bonding agreements so that it is very easy to make them pay back the money spent on their scholarships in one way or another.

Mr Speaker, I said that I would be brief. So, as I conclude, let me confess that I do not know the composition of the board. However, it should include some investment experts so that the funds are invested on profitable assets to guarantee appropriate returns. The funds should not be entrusted with somebody who has no clue of investment portfolio management. Otherwise, the fund will sink in no time. So, those are my thoughts on this Bill. Otherwise, I support it.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my thoughts to the debate on this Bill. I will be brief.

Sir, let me start by congratulating the hon. Minister of Higher Education on presenting it to the House. It is long overdue.

Sir, our expectation is that the creation of the Higher Education Loans and Scholarships Board will give more students access to tertiary education. That is because, currently, the money spent on scholarships is not ploughed back into the Government while in the proposed scheme it will be recovered and made available to other students. We also anticipate that parents who are well-to-do, like hon. Ministers, may decide to sponsor their children instead of fighting for loans that they will still have to repay. If that happens, it will help to release the funding to the children who need it more, which will be a positive thing.

Sir, the main problem I have with this Bill is the same one I have had with the other Bills we have debated this afternoon. This Bill concentrates too much concentration on peripherals. There is too much concentration on what powers the hon. Minister will have, who will qualify to be on the board, how many people will be on the board, what powers the members of the board will have, the qualifications of the director and things like bank accounts. I want to submit that these issues are just there to support the Bill and that there should have been more details on the scholarships and bursaries. Unfortunately, such details are currently very scanty in the Bill. My fear is that this is one of the things that make our institutions fail. We do not want to go into the nuts and bolts. Instead we want to focus on issues of power and prestige. So, I will not be surprised if this institution fails. For example, the institution is for scholarships and bursaries, yet there is no clarity, to me, on how the separate modes of financing will be designed and administered. I know that somewhere in the Bill, it is provided for the board to develop its own regulations, but that is not enough. These are the issues into which the administrators should have delved.

Sir, the administrators should have studied how the schemes are operated in other countries. For example, there are no clear guidelines on how to determine whether one qualifies for a scholarship or a bursary. So, obviously, people will waste a lot of time applying for financing modes that may not apply to them and, because of frustrations of bureaucracies, in the end, people will just walk away. I would have loved to have clarity on issues of who qualifies for a scholarship so that even as people apply, they know with 90 per cent certainty that they qualify for a scholarship because they meet the requirements. The circumstances that qualify a person for a scholarship should be spelt out clearly. When the institution receives applications, how will it determine the applicants who deserve scholarships and those deserve bursaries? Over the years, some people have been awarded bursaries while others have been given scholarships. So, how will the board handle the people already benefitting from such schemes? Will they be governed by the provisions of this Bill? In other words, will the Government, this time around, be more active in pursuing people who got Government sponsorship five or twenty years ago? Will those who are already being sponsored be allowed not to repay the money into the fund, which is supposed to be a revolving fund if administered properly? If the board will be able to recover funds going back ten years, depending on the practicability of doing that, it might create a bigger pool of funding. However, the Bill is very silent on this issue, too. I could give more examples, but the point I am trying to make is that the Government should get to the details of how the institution will function. Otherwise, this undertaking will be set for failure right from the start.

Mr Speaker, my last point is on equity. This scheme will, most probably, be administered in Lusaka, where the Ministry of Higher Education is headquartered. If that will be the case, does the Government expect us to believe that the children in Liuwa will be able to compete favourably with students whose parents live in Woodlands, Chalala and other parts of Lusaka? The children in the remote parts of Liuwa, such as Siluwe, on the border with Angola, and Muta, may not even know about the existence of the scholarship scheme. However, even for those who know, are we sure that there is equity? So, if I had my way, I would decentralise this programme. The main body in Lusaka must just have, maybe, two or three people while the money for loans and scholarships must be sent to the districts and, if possible, constituencies. I propose this because the people in the constituencies know the children from poor families better. Those of us who live with our people in the constituencies know that, for example, a particular child’s parents have 500 or 1,000 animals. Here, in Lusaka, however, you will not be able to know a family’s net worth. So, I am afraid that if the programme is not decentralised, it will continue to benefit the elites in society at the expense of the vulnerable for whom it is meant. By the way, the elites are not necessarily from Lusaka only. Even in the rural setting, there are powerful people.

Mr Speaker, what I have suggested used to happen in the past. Unlike most of the people here, who were born yesterday, those of us who are old enough to have lived part of our lives in the colonial era remember that the scheme worked effectively because it was decentralised. When the money was made available, the villagers were told to form groups and sit to identify intelligent children whose parents were poor. Those were the students who were given scholarships.

Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister, again, and hope that he will reflect positively on the contributions that we have made from this side of the House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I thank the previous contributors to the debate on this Bill, especially the last one, my former lecturer of economics. I also thank Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo, who has brought out some important points on this Bill. Let me start my debate by commenting on his remarks.

Sir, it is a common feeling that the Government has to sponsor public learning institutions. However, I think that should not be our main focus because many private colleges that have been established in this country are performing better than public institutions. Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo pointed out that the Bill provides for us to start with public institutions and, later, go to the private institutions in providing student loans and scholarships. I think that we have to weigh the merits and demerits of such an approach. Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo went further to state that when a student gets a scholarship or loan, he or she should be allowed to go to a university of his or her choice. However, many people currently shun Government institutions because a four-year course takes six years to complete there. Therefore, we should ask ourselves if such a situation is not turning our public institutions into white elephants. We have set up many commissions of enquiry to look at such matters at a great cost to the National Treasury. At the end of it all, however, are we not just coming up with white elephants?

Sir, I agree with hon. Dr Musokotwane that this Bill is discriminatory. I see many people here who benefited from Government-funded free education from Grade 1 to university and I feel that they are enjoying the fruits of that free education without paying anything back to the State, yet we are now asking the future generations to pay back whatever the Government will spend on their education through loans and scholarships. Therefore, instead of this scheme being funded by the Government expenditure, I think we can create a pool fund to which those who benefited from Government-sponsored free education should contribute. Many of us who benefited from the free education system are doing very well and can contribute to this venture.

Sir, currently, even as we want to fund the loans and scholarships programme through the National Treasury, our resources are dwindling. Presently, our annual economic growth is about 4 to 6 per cent. Honestly speaking, even great magicians cannot create enough resources to meet all our national needs. So, as we pass this Bill, we should be mindful of the costs associated with the creation of the Court of Appeal and all the other institutions that will come into being after the adoption of the new Constitution, which will all be a burden on the Treasury’s limited resources. Why are we creating utopias and many white elephants through this House without looking at the resources of this country? We are putting our meagre public resources under pressure and denying the Treasury any fiscal space. So, I appeal to my fellow citizens beyond the political gathering here to understand that the future leaders of this country will not bring their own money into the National Treasury. Rather, they will equally need to raise revenue through income tax, excise duty and other taxes. Currently, there is very little importation and productivity in this country. As a result, there is very little tax money going into the Treasury. Therefore, as we are passing Bills like this one, what revenue are we looking at that will sustain the institutions we are creating so that they do not end being white elephants or failed projects tomorrow?

Mr Speaker, since we are introducing the State Audit Commission, in addition to the Office of the Auditor-General, I would like to see performance audits undertaken on the awarding of student loans and scholarships. Just like Hon. Dr Musokotwane and others who spoke before me, I want to know the criterion being put in place for determining which students should get either loans or scholarships. Will the scheme be based on performance or need? Will a child from a well-to-do family who gets six points be awarded a scholarship or loan, or will that be a preserve of intelligent children from poor families? These are the questions that we should answer as we pass this Bill. To echo Hon. Dr Musokotwane, such details should be clearly stated in the Bill.

 Sir, I hear that after this Bill has been passed, a statutory instrument (SI) will be issued on this programme. However, I feel that if we leave it to an SI, we will give the hon. Minister discretion in determining the fields of study that will be supported by the loans and scholarships. For example, in a particular year, the hon. Minister might decide to award more scholarships to engineering students than to those studying the social sciences. In such a case, what would we do with the ocean of brilliant needy students in the other fields who? When they come to us, hon. Members of Parliament, we are incapable of assisting them because we, too, have limited resources.

Mr Speaker, as we consider this Bill, we also have to look at its benefit to the people of Zambia and focus on those it is intended to help. In this regard, all hon. Members of Parliament can identify people who really need assistance in their constituencies. It would not be good for Jonas Shakafuswa’s child to queue up for assistance when his or her father can afford to send his children to a private university. So, the culture of saving at the expense of the poor should come to an end. Currently, the beneficiaries of most bursaries and, especially, the foreign scholarships, for example, those to universities in China and Germany, are children of the well-to-do. They are children, nephews and nieces of hon. Ministers. Why do the hon. Ministers not pay for them?

Mr Speaker, I prefer a holistic approach. Most of us here who have benefited from this system since Independence, including the doctors, should contribute to the fund. It will not impoverish if we do. We just need to check the number of people who have graduated from the two public universities and those who went through the education system when we used to have biscuits and milk for lunch, courtesy of the Government’s socialist policies. I think that we are many. So, we need to pay back what belongs to the people of Zambia and alleviate the problems in the education system for those poor children who are suffering. All of us have to accept the responsibility to educate that poor child who cannot benefit from the coffers of the Government because the population has grown. I know that when some of you were at university, you even used to throw away eggs because you got too many of them for breakfast every morning. Now, it is time to pay back.

Sir, the hon. Minister should not discriminate against the current generation of children. Instead, he must find a way of recovering something from most of us seated here who benefited from the public coffers. That money belonged to the people of Zambia and it must be repaid so that it also benefits the future generations.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Lets us bear in mind that there are serious limitations to retroactive legislation.

The Minister of Transport and Communication (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, I will be brief because I have only been encouraged to say something by the support for the Bill that has been registered in this House.

Sir, I would like to start by thanking the hon. Minister for his courage in presenting this Bill to Parliament. It has taken long to be presented despite what has been going on in the public universities. I also thank the hon. Members who have supported the Bill wholeheartedly.

Mr Speaker, the issue of students sponsoring themselves is not new. For example, at the Zambia Centre for Accountancy Studies (ZCAS), which is a Government institution, everyone is self-sponsored. Many parents have sponsored their children there, many of whom have graduated with degrees in different courses. Another example is Mulungushi University, where many Zambians are studying without Government support. Equally, all the students in the many private universities to which Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo referred are self-sponsored.

Sir, I also want to add my support to the idea of asking former graduates of the two public universities, namely the University of Zambia (UNZA) and the Copperbelt University (CBU), to contribute to the Higher Education Loans and Scholarship Fund. It is very common for people to be very proud of having graduated from the two public universities.

Ms Imenda: Alumni.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Simbao: They are very proud.

Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Those people should come forth and pay back to the universities that have made them what they are today. Using an estimate of 40,000 as the number of working people who graduated from the two universities, if we asked each to contribute a meagre K5 per month, we would realise K2.4 million per year. If we asked each for K50 per month, which they definitely can all afford, we would realise K24 million per year, which is a lot of money. The contributions can be limited to ten years.

Mr Speaker, the late President, Dr Levy Mwanawasa, SC, may his soul rest in peace, started a scheme into which most people almost bought but, for one reason or another, did not go very far. The scheme involved people adopting hostel floors on which they lived as students and naming them after themselves. The late President adopted a floor and a few other people did the same. I think, however, that was still not enough. What has been started by the hon. Minister is what will help. Fortunately, it is not too late for us to start. Certainly, we can realise enough money to rehabilitate most of the infrastructure in the public universities.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I am aware of the copious work that is before us but, please, allow me to make just a few comments on what my colleagues have said.

Sir, I agree with Hon. Simbao and the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba that we really do not need to wait for the hon. Minister. If those who passed through the two universities are serious, they can contribute through the alumni, which, as far as I know, is non-existent. Further, I wonder whether the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba is serious when he keeps surcharging himself without actually making any contribution.
 
Laughter

Dr Kaingu: The hon. Member also talked about people who got loans in 2004 and thereafter. My comment is that they will be traced, and we have a mechanism for that in place. So, he should not worry because we will capture them.

Sir, I am grateful to the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa for his contribution. However, I want to correct him because he does not seem to know the difference between a loan and a scholarship.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, a scholarship ...

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Please, resume your seat.

I do not think that it is fair for us to approach issues that way. In case Hon. Dr Musokotwane does know the distinction, what will he do? He will not be able to respond and you will have created the impression that he does not, which is not fair. If you can, as far as possible, isolate the individuals from the issues that have been raised as you respond to them.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Please, continue, hon. Minister.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, a loan is what the beneficiary borrows and pays back whereas the scholarship is given to a student who has demonstrated prowess in education. The scholarship can come from a country like China or it can be a local one and it is not supposed to be repaid by the student.

Sir, this Bill will make tertiary education accessible.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Dr Kaingu: We should avoid being pessimistic and give it a chance to be implemented.

Sir, on the details, we cannot put all of them in the Bill. So, some of the details mentioned by my colleagues will be captured either in a statutory instrument (SI) or as we operationalise the Bill.

Sir, I thank Hon. Dr Kalila for his contributions. Yes, this Bill will revolutionise tertiary education. In this regard, I thank my Cabinet colleagues for the political will it has given to the Bill. I agree that it will possibly curb the problems and unrest we have seen in the tertiary education sector.

Mr Speaker, I agree with Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo that the fund must be accessible to everybody. Unfortunately, as we implement the Bill, the fund will not immediately be enough for everybody but, as it grows, it will be made accessible to anybody who will want to borrow for tertiary education. So, the rolling out of the programme will be phased. As for the private universities, I seem to be confused because it is in this House where private universities are called names. Hon. Members are now praising them. Suffice it for me to say that we will seriously consider what has been proposed.

Sir, I sincerely thank the Chairperson of the Committee for the salient issues he has raised, some of which have already been captured by my officers and will be included in the Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 11th May, 2016.

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

THE STATE AUDIT COMMISSION BILL, 2016

Clauses 1, 2, 3 and 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 5 – (Composition of commission)

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 5, on page 8:

(a) after line 23 by the insertion of the following new paragraph: “(ii) Economics Association of Zambia;” and

(b) in lines 24, 25 and 27 by the re-numbering of paragraphs (ii) to (iv) as (iii) to (v) respectively.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The State Audit Commission Bill, 2016

Report Stage on Wednesday, 11th May, 2016.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Public Protector Bill, 2016

The Immigration and Deportation Bill, 2016

The Supreme Court of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2016

The Ministers (Prescribed Number and Responsibilities) Bill, 2016

_________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_________

The House adjourned at 1809 hours until 0900 hours on Wednesday, 11th May, 2016.